Big Blue Kickoff Live 6/3 | 2025 Projections & OTA Review

Paul Dottino and Matt Citak give some takeaways from day five of Giants OTAs, predict the most improved players on the Giants roster in 2025, and take calls from fans.

:00 - OTA chat

25:00 - Calls

30:30 - Wide receivers

41:10 - Darius Slayton

50:42 - Offensive line

See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:04):
It's time for a Big Blue Kickoff line.

Speaker 2 (00:06):
Nobody can ever tell you that you couldn't do it because.

Speaker 1 (00:09):
You're on Giants dot com.

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Do you know what I saw New York Giant Crime.

Speaker 1 (00:14):
And the Giants mobile at.

Speaker 2 (00:17):
The Finals one tundown.

Speaker 3 (00:19):
We are we're all tampering.

Speaker 1 (00:21):
They were part of the Giants podcast network. That's going on.

Speaker 2 (00:24):
The Dogs hasn't fun.

Speaker 3 (00:26):
Hello again, everybody, and welcome to Tuesday's edition of Big
Blue Kickoff Live, presented by Cadillac, the official luxury vehicle
of the New York Football Giants.

Speaker 2 (00:36):
We are here for the next hour.

Speaker 3 (00:37):
To talk New York Giants football with you at two
oh one nine three nine four five one three Poltatino
Matt's side Tech and you know, it's another gorgeous day
here in North Jersey. You know, we had two days
in a row now where the weather really seems to
be inching towards a summertime, and that means that guy's
got to practice outside again, Matt. And that's always good
to see because when it rains, they got to go inside,

(00:58):
and that's never as nice as the field.

Speaker 2 (01:00):
It's getting warmer and warmer each day. We really passed
through Ota it really is. Yesterday it was like in
the sixties or seventy. Yeah, it was eighty. I think
it got the seventy. Next practice Thursday could hit ninety.
I heard that's a little too hot for me.

Speaker 3 (01:13):
But yeah, well no TA tomorrow by the way, Yes,
and then and then Thursday is a media day OTA.
As a reminder, our show will start an hour later
that day. We will be starting at one thirty on
Thursday because of media availabilities due to the OTA that
will be happening in the morning into the middle of

(01:33):
the day. So again we always want to bring the
show to you after those so that we have some
stuff to pass along.

Speaker 2 (01:39):
Yeah, and the Thursday is going to be a busy day.
Of course we have OTA practice, but instead of coach
table speaking, they set the media schedule out and we
have the three coordinators speaking Thursday morning, So Mike Kafka,
Shane Bowen, and Mike Obriel we'll be speaking before practice practice.

(02:00):
Media will be here. I'm sure they will be live
tweeting everything.

Speaker 4 (02:04):
Uh.

Speaker 2 (02:04):
And then there's some players are gonna speak, we don't
know who yet. And then Brandon Brown, assistant GM, we'll
hear from him, which we only hear from him once
maybe twice a year, so we'll get to hear from
him for the first time in.

Speaker 3 (02:15):
A while, that is true. So we're looking forward to that,
to having some fun.

Speaker 2 (02:18):
Now.

Speaker 3 (02:18):
As far as today, our number is two one nine
three nine four five one three as we come to
you from the Giants Podcast Studio presented by Hackensack Meridian Health.

Speaker 2 (02:28):
Keep getting better.

Speaker 3 (02:29):
Feel free to dial us up or for that matter,
hashtag Giants Chat on Twitter. We do have a pair
of questions.

Speaker 2 (02:36):
For you today.

Speaker 3 (02:38):
Now, I'll give you the first one, Matt, I'll give
you the second one. Uh what we want to know
and because you know, we're just trying to fill out
some time here with things being a little bit a
little bit dead period.

Speaker 2 (02:49):
Sorry, don't mean to cut you off, but before we
go to this, I want to give it quick recap
of what happened in practice.

Speaker 3 (02:55):
I was going to give the question first so they
could think about it, okay, and then we'll give the practice.

Speaker 2 (02:58):
That's fair, okay, question question to think about.

Speaker 3 (03:03):
We want to know which defensive player will have the
most regular season snaps by the end of the season.
And there are a few really good choices here. I
think you know, we'll discuss that later on during the
course of the show. But which defensive player will have
the most regular season snaps by the time the season

(03:23):
is over? That's question number one, or if you prefer
question number two, have about.

Speaker 2 (03:27):
It question number two. So this was an article that
Pro Football Focus put out recently, sometime in the last
couple of days, and they predicted who the most improved
player at every position he was going to be. So
this could be anyone across the NFL, not just Giants,
you know Centric, but there are two giants mentioned in

(03:50):
this article. So our question is who do you guys
think will be You can either guess one, guess both,
but without cheating, without looking up the article, who do
you think will be the most will be in the
conversation for the most improved player at their respective position
from the Giants.

Speaker 3 (04:06):
You know what bothered me about what they did with
that one of the players.

Speaker 2 (04:12):
Uh, I don't want to say. If I do this,
it's gonna give you a hint.

Speaker 3 (04:15):
It is going to be part of the part of
a hint that if a guy's coming off with an injury,
it's more like he could be a comeback player.

Speaker 2 (04:25):
If he was hurt at least for part of the season.

Speaker 3 (04:28):
Can he be a most improved player if he's already
played well in the NFL, then had a injury riddled
season that hurt his production, and then comes back and
bounces back.

Speaker 2 (04:40):
I know that's probably gonna give a hint.

Speaker 3 (04:41):
Now, it's gonna give away one of the guys, But
don't I don't think that qualifies.

Speaker 2 (04:46):
Unfortunately, because of how last season went, I feel like
there are a good number of Giants players that fall
into that category of it does played somewhat well, got injured,
dealt with injuries for at least part of the year.
That is true. So I just I don't think gave
it away there.

Speaker 3 (05:00):
Okay, Okay, hopefully I did not give it away. Again,
I don't know if I agree with the context of
the selection on that particular.

Speaker 2 (05:09):
On both of them or just the one.

Speaker 3 (05:11):
Okay, the one that I'm sure you've already picked up
from what I've said. This is kind of like Penn
and Teller right where you know, they think they didn't
fool them and they gave like a little bit of
a discussion and somehow with the words they figured it out. Okay,
that's the deal two A one nine three nine.

Speaker 2 (05:29):
Four five one three.

Speaker 3 (05:31):
We will discuss those questions in just a couple of moments. First,
they quick practice report as to what happened at today's Ota.

Speaker 2 (05:39):
Uh, it was one of.

Speaker 3 (05:41):
The lesser eventful practices that we've had so far. I
don't think there's much doubt about that. It was a
good practice for the tight ends. I thought Greg Dulcic
and uh Daniel Bellinger in particular, each one of them
made a nice grab. I think for Dony also had
alf a nice grab. So I'm going to characterize this

(06:03):
one as a good practice for the tight ends. Dulcetch
actually did a really nice job on a short pass
and he wound up taking down the sideline for a touchdown,
which was really nice. But that was the one position
that stood out to me today.

Speaker 2 (06:17):
Yeah, dozets look great on that play. I mean, going
into the draft, was it twenty twenty two? Well, you
see in the league this is fourth year, I believe
now it's twenty twenty two draft. Wow, I got that right. Well,
he's with Denver. You know, injury plagued, but he was
there for a while. Yeah, And but going into that draft,
he was thought to be one of, if not the

(06:37):
best pass catching tight ends in that class. Sure, and
he's dealt a lot of injuries over the last couple
of years. Seems to be fully healthy now. I mean
he's out there, you know, going full throttle, and you're
seeing a little bit of what made him so talented
and special at UCLA. So obviously there's a long way
to go, and does somewhat of a crowded tight end

(06:57):
room now after the selection of Thomas Faddoni, Theo Johnson,
Daniel Bellinger, Chris Manhertz, a lot of guys in there,
Jermaine Terry, he made a grant today as well from
Tommy DeVito. So yeah, thicker than the other tight ends, Yeah,
definitely another just taking on the tight ends for a moment.
I'm sure you picked up on this too, But Jackson
Dart and Thomas Fadoni seemed to be developing some nice chemistry.

(07:20):
Every time Jackson Dart is out there, he seems to
be looking in Fiddoni's direction.

Speaker 3 (07:23):
They're also out there for relatively the same snaps most
of the time too.

Speaker 2 (07:27):
Of course, but it seems like Jackson Dart is targeting
Fiddoni potentially even more than you know some of the receivers.

Speaker 3 (07:35):
You were a quarterback and you saw a guy who
was six seven with length, wouldn't you want to throw
to him?

Speaker 2 (07:40):
Yeah? And with the way he's looked also this spring,
since he's been in the building the last month. Yes,
Fiddoni could surprise a lot of people. But the position
I'm gonna I want to talk about because I also
see that there was a comment on the YouTube chat
or a live stream about the secondary. Yes, because there
was a couple of nice plays made by the second
and Derek today, towards the beginning of team drills, Cordell

(08:03):
Flott had a nice pass breakup yep. But then the
big play that I want to talk about was Javon
Holland came up with an interception. I believe this is
during eleven on elevens, so towards the towards the latter
part of practice he had an interception. So this is
Ota number five. Today, there have been four OTAs with

(08:25):
actual team drills, and the top three safeties on the
Giants have four interceptions in the four days of actual practices,
with Belton coming up with two, Nubien coming up with one,
and now Holland coming up with one that is very
encouraging for me to see. I mean, obviously interceptions were

(08:46):
at a premium. Yeah, they didn't they We didn't get
too many of them last year. We didn't see it
too often. And you know, Tyler Numan was an absolute
ballhawk at college. He came into the league with I
think Minnesota's all time record for interceptions. Dane Belton has
in his limited playing time over his first three seasons,
has found a way to just somehow always get the

(09:08):
ball in his hands, whether interceptions, fumble recoveries. He's just
a ball magnet. And then you have Javon Holland, who
last season it wasn't his best season with the Dolphins,
but has also shown a tendency to find the football
when he talked, So, if the Giants are going to
improve on their interception numbers this year, which quite frankly,

(09:30):
you can only go up from where it was last
year pretty much, it was tough. I feel like these
three safeties are going to be potentially the big driving
forces behind it, and we're seeing it a little bit
already this spring.

Speaker 3 (09:41):
I thought Tate Banks had a nice breakup to today
on one pass play and then the rest of the practice.
As I said yesterday with John with the corners, it's
almost like you'd rather see them not make a not
be noticeable, because that means they were covering guys in
the ball, wasn't there.

Speaker 2 (10:01):
Well.

Speaker 3 (10:01):
I wanted to pay more attention to Banks yesterday because
we were talking about how Banks doesn't seem to be
having any communication problems or getting caught out of position
or getting burned or giving up too much cushion in
these OTAs. He seems to be playing better. He seems
to be a little stickier, and he's closer to the
receivers than maybe what he was doing last year. So

(10:23):
we had that conversation with John yesterday. I watched him
a little more carefully today. He had the one really
nice pass breakup, and other than that, they didn't throw
it at him. It looked like they were like just
avoiding him.

Speaker 2 (10:36):
Yeah, I mean, look, you know we're talking about these
wide receiver quarterback matchups. Obviously there's no contact allowed, and
Deontay Banks one of his strong suits is you know,
press coverage of course, and you can't do that right now.
So I'm interested to see how he looks come training camp,
because once once training camp comes, the pads are on,

(10:57):
then these guys it's you know, full it's normal practice,
let's go, so it's full throttle. That is when I'd
be more interested to see how Banks looks. But you're right,
right now, this time of year, you would rather just
not notice a cornerback. That's probably the best part. So yeah,
the fact that Deontay, other than the one pass breakup,

(11:18):
wasn't very noticeable, I'd say that that's a positive thing.
Moving over to the offense, I just have my notes
on my phone here. Well, the play of the day,
in my opinion, was one of the last plays, was
when Tommy DeVito found We discussed we weren't going to
talk about him. Okay, it's too late. You already said,

(11:40):
go ahead, go ahead. Tommy DeVito threw past the Jordan
Bly who just outran everyone for a touchdown. Yes, the
two of them talking about nice chemistry. They've had a
nice chemistry. I mean last week we saw it with
Tommy Davido finding Jordan Bly. I think for two touchdowns
in the first day. I have team drills the last Wednesday,

(12:02):
I believe, and another one today and the whole entire
offense went to celebrate with Jordan Bly. It was a
real touchdown, not just you know, one of those defense
kind of steps off the pedal because there's no contact,
you can't touch anyone. This was him just completely out
running everyone into the end zone for one of the
only touchdowns of practice. Yes, so that was good. There

(12:24):
were only a few. Yeah, Jermaine Terry had what might
have been a touchdown. Again, it's tough because when the
guys are running down the field and the defenders are
running with them, they obviously are not jumping at them
to tackle them. So it's a little tough to know
the play on which he lumbered toward the end zone. Yeah,
he would have at least gotten somewhat close to the

(12:45):
goal line, if not into the end zone. Let's see
what else. Amir Smith Marsette had a nice sideline catch. Yes,
that was very nice.

Speaker 3 (12:55):
And and I have noticed and again we know the
Giants are down some in the receiving corps in terms
of availability, especially with neighbors not being able to work.
Smith Moore set has gotten some regular reps in terms
of the passing game during our OTAs, and I think

(13:16):
he's shown well, Oh.

Speaker 2 (13:18):
I think so too. I mean, obviously, last year sort
of got the reputation of just being a special teams
guy because he had that big was it the big
Punker turn. Well, he had one hundred yard kickoff return, Yeah,
a touchdown. He looked great as a returner. But yeah, granted,
he also was brought in during the season I believe
or off season. Oh yeah, I want to say he

(13:40):
came in. Was it week two? I believe it was
after the season started. I think it was week two.

Speaker 3 (13:46):
But the point is, you know, he wasn't given any
receiving opportunities last year.

Speaker 2 (13:52):
He was a returning guy limited.

Speaker 3 (13:54):
I'm kind of intrigued by his receiving skills right now.

Speaker 2 (13:57):
Yeah, I mean, look, granted again it's only spring, but
he's shown more as a receiver than I was expecting
to see out of him. And he obviously still has
that kick return ability. So if he can contribute even
just a little bit as a receiver as well, that
could you know, he could turn into a pretty big
contributor this year for the Giants. Only other two plays

(14:19):
I would want to quickly mention, well, on that dult
chick catch, Jameis Winston was the quarterback on that play,
and he also had one other beautiful pass to Devin
Singletary who was like running a bit of a sideline
red wheel route whatever, and James Jamis just placed the
ball perfectly right in Devin Singletary's basket. Who caught it

(14:42):
would have been probably, I don't know, thirty thirty forty
yard game wouldn't have been a touchdown, but it would
have been. It would have been a big, big play.
It was just one of the nicer passes of the
day in terms of ball placement.

Speaker 3 (14:55):
Yeah, I agree, I agree, that was a really nice
throw and just in general, I think think Wilson and
Darrit in general, through the first five OTAs have probably
been the two most accurate passers in general.

Speaker 2 (15:08):
Yeah, through the first five, well, Tommy's been pretty accurate.
To Tommy's throwing the ball well too. He has not
as many throws, You're gonna say, he just has had
limited compared to some of the others exactly. But yeah, all.

Speaker 3 (15:18):
Right, folks, that's our recap for practice today. The OTAs
here continue again on Thursday. We remind you the show
will be moved to one thirty pm Eastern Time on Thursday,
when the next ota takes place. That's an open media otah.
We're actually allowed to say more about that one because
it's open to the media, and we will be moving

(15:39):
the program to one thirty Eastern time. All right, two
on one nine three nine four five one three is
our phone number here on Big Blue Kickoff Live real quick.
In terms of the defensive snap count, let me just
answer that while John continues to line up some phone
calls for us, because they are coming in for me,

(16:01):
I'm going to go Tyler Nuben. I am very impressed
with this young man who had a terrific rookie season.
I like the fact that they love his smarts, they
love the ability to move him around into different aspects
of the scheme. He's young, he's healthy, he showed last year,

(16:24):
you know, and Minnesota. He's not a guy who deals
with many injuries. He seems to be able to stay
on the field. And I'm gonna say Tyler Nuben gets
the most defensive snaps.

Speaker 2 (16:35):
During this season. Yeah, for me, it seemed like there
were basically two answers, two possible. It could be three
or four, to be honest, I think I centerated it
on two guys. Tyler Nuben was one of them because
we saw last year prior to his injury that forced
him to miss I believe is the last four or
five games of the season. Prior to that, he missed

(16:55):
I think a grand total of two snaps in the
first I believe twelve or thirteen games of the season,
and I.

Speaker 3 (17:02):
Think as a rookie, part of the reason I think
they held him out at the end was also because
of the way the season was going. I think he
probably could have ford through it if they were playing.

Speaker 2 (17:10):
For something potentially. Yeah, but yeah, I mean he just
was the iron man prior to that, I mean barely
coming to the field, and that is a that is
as a rookie. Yeah, just being right thrown right into
the fire. And he looked pretty good. He held his
own last year. So yeah, that was one of the
guys I was thinking about. And the other one, which
I feel like should not come as much of a

(17:31):
surprise because he has earned this honor before for this team.
I know where you're going. It would be Bobby o'caret.
I knew exactly where you were going right up there
with Newban Bobby o'caaka is basically I mean, obviously he
dealt with an injury last year as well that forced
him to miss a chunk of the season, but prior
to that, again was not coming off the field much

(17:53):
at all. The year before that was the was the
year before that the year that him and McKinney both
played every single snap. That was twenty twenty three. Yeah,
so two years ago he literally played every single snap.
So you can't be on the field for more than that.
This is true. So it might be a bit of
a that was gonna be. Yeah, it might be a
bit of a cop out answer, but I feel like

(18:16):
between Bobby and Tyler Nubman, those are the two I
would say most likely. Also because of their positions. Bobby
is obviously the anchor of the defense, the middle of
the defense, and Nuban is sort of, I guess you
could call him sort of the anchor of the secondary.
So it makes sense that the two of them would
be on the field just about every single snap, assuming

(18:37):
they're healthy. So I feel like those are the two.

Speaker 3 (18:40):
I too figure if you wanted to up that that
umbrella at ted, you could have argued juvon Holland, that's
totally fair, And I think you also could have mentioned
either one of the two starting corners Banks or a debo.

Speaker 2 (18:53):
Yeah.

Speaker 3 (18:53):
That to me, I think the four starting guys in
the secondary and okaa kay the most logical choices.

Speaker 2 (19:02):
I think that's fair. And I will say I think
maybe not quite in the conversation yet, but sneaking up
there would be Mike and McFadden.

Speaker 3 (19:11):
You know what, a lot of that depends on how
much they play Abdul Carter, because I think Carter is
going to take some of McFadden snaps away. He'll take
some away from from Tibbs, He'll take some away from Burns, probably.

Speaker 2 (19:27):
Not too many away from Burns. That guy just he
doesn't want to come out to field. Yeah, but they'll
have to take some away from him. And then I
think I think McFadden's going to lose some snaps to
Carter too. No, that's a fair point. I mean we'll
have to see how Shane Bowen, you know, decides to
deploy all of these now you know, kind of deep
defensive roster. Yeah, and again we've spoken about this. He

(19:49):
can go with so many different formations, different personnel groupings.
It's probably going to be more matchup based obviously, you know,
I would be what you were just saying, with Abdull
potentially taking some steps from Micah, I could see, you know,
in a matchup like gay one week one against the Commanders,
where you have Jane Daniels and you might want to
put a spy on him, sure, and someone that could

(20:09):
keep up with Jayden and Daniel Speed. Yeah, that could
be a you know, a matchup where Abdullah is on
the field more for Micah than probably some of those
other guys.

Speaker 3 (20:19):
I could definitely see that. All right, We'll get to
question number two in just a bit, but for now,
it looks like we got some phone calls, so let's
go there. We will start with Tim and Charleston Online two.
You're first on the program.

Speaker 4 (20:32):
Hello, hey guys. All right, so I wanted to go
with your questions to lead off, and then just a
little comment if I remember if I remember it. But
first of all, I think that I agree. I think
it's going to be I think the player with the
most snaps in the team is going to be one

(20:53):
of the safeties, either Holland or Nubent. I mean that
just makes sense. So Karen Campforts in the running. But
I think with the with the combination of the seven
up front. There there might be a couple of couple
options chances for him to sit down, but either of
the safeties to potentially play every defensive snap. And I
would like to be picking an offensive player, but I

(21:13):
think we're dreaming if we think our offense is going
to be on the field board our defense this year.

Speaker 3 (21:19):
Well, we actually did ask the offensive question a couple
of weeks ago, so that's why we kind of went
strictly with defense for this particular.

Speaker 4 (21:27):
I didn't realize you even said defense. I thought you
just said most snaps overall.

Speaker 2 (21:31):
If I if.

Speaker 3 (21:32):
I, if I misspoke, I apologize. But the question is
I heard it.

Speaker 4 (21:37):
You know, sometimes you hear what you want to hear, right.

Speaker 1 (21:41):
How true?

Speaker 2 (21:41):
How true is that?

Speaker 4 (21:43):
Go ahead, and most improved player? I'm going to go,
I'm kind of this is kind of wishful thinking the
players do. I want to see most improved because I
have the biggest impact would be you know, Banks at cornerback. Uh,
because you know it's like John says, you know, he

(22:03):
runs with people, He's like paper on glue with people.
But he just has to learn one thing, how to
turn around and play the ball. And if he does that,
I think that's going to show a huge improvement over
his year last year, which was not great. And on offense,
I'm going to go with JMS Joe Michael Schmidt. I

(22:23):
think you know I'm holding and that's more of a
fingers crossed I think if you wanted to go pure production,
THEO Johnson's probably where I would hang my hat. But
the JMS is the guy who I like to see
be the best. And I don't even have a comment.
I'll just let you off the hook with those and

(22:44):
listen to the rest of the show on the air.

Speaker 3 (22:45):
Guys, thank you, Tim, thanks to appreciate it. All good
selections and if any of those guys are all three
get appreciably better, it's really good for this team.

Speaker 2 (22:56):
Oh one hundred percent, I will say. But the two
guys particul that to mention with Banks and JMS, I
think those two could be the most important players. Like
if they do take big steps, then that could very
much help this team actually as a whole, take a
big step, because we just talked about all the guys

(23:18):
on defense. If Deontay Banks can play, you know, like
the way that you know the team expected him to
when they drafted him, in the first round, moved up
to get him. If he can play that level with
now all the pieces that the Giants have around him,
the defense will be significantly better. Yes, I have no
doubt about that. I totally agree. And the same goes

(23:38):
for JMS with the offensive line. If JMS takes a
big year three step with a healthy Andrew Thomas and
now the veterans that he has around him, the offensive
line should take a big step. So I'm with you
Tim that if those two players, if they take the
steps that the Giants kind of need him to, that
could mean very good things for the Giants defense and

(23:59):
the Giants offensive line. Those were not the two players
that PFF chose. Do you want me to say for
you before you do? Here's what I will say. If
you were to pick two players that you would want
to take the biggest step forward, those are the two guys.
Without a doubt. I totally agree. Yeah, I totally agree.

(24:19):
It's a different question to say, which guys do you
think will take the best step. So go ahead. So
we'll start with on defense. This is the player that
Paul was alluding to. Yes, sir, they chose at edge
rusher Kevon Sibbodeo. Yeah, they think he will be the
most improved edge rusher, which sign me up for that.

(24:41):
If he takes a huge step in year four with
Brian Burns and Abdul Carter, this could be like a
pass rusher that leads the league in sacks.

Speaker 3 (24:50):
Then I mean again, my problem is the context of
the question. Because he had eleven and a half sacks
two seasons ago in year number two last year how
to deal with the rest, wasn't the same player in
the past rush a category, but was still very good
at holding the edge against the run. So I don't

(25:14):
I see him more as almost being more of a
comeback player because his sack number went down by more
than fifty percent and he missed a month of the
season because of risk surgery. So I have a hard
time saying he needs to be you know, improved, so
to speak, because I think I know what he can
be because he's already shown it to us. Well, I

(25:35):
think that's why, based on me, the injury has a
lot to do.

Speaker 2 (25:39):
No, that's totally fair, And the article mentions the injury,
but I think they're just saying. So what the article
mentions is that he ended the season very strongly says
he ended the season not that not that we you know,
love the PFF grades here, right, but his grade that
PFF gave him from weeks thirteen to eighteenth was thirteenth

(26:02):
among all ed rushers in the NFL twenty one pressures
in that six game span, which that is a good number.

Speaker 3 (26:09):
What is he didn't finish enough, Yeah, that's why.

Speaker 2 (26:13):
But pressure is not sack. He's certainly got in the backfield. Yeah,
So I think they're just saying that they kind of
see him using that last month of the season as
a stepping stone into the twenty twenty five campaign. And obviously,
you know, the Giants drafting Abdul Carter, the three of
them will all be on the field and be on
the field a lot. But I mean, if you're a Cavan,

(26:35):
you obviously welcome the talent, you know, influx to your room.
But at the same time, I mean, these guys are
all competitors. They want to be out there every single play,
So drafting someone that at your position, even if it's
going to help the team, you know, obviously could light
a little fire underneath him a little bit. So I
think that is the article is saying not that he

(26:55):
needs to take a step, but they just think, given
especially all the talent the Giants now have on the
defensive line, they think he's just going to take a
big step, which again would be fantastic for the Giants
pass rush if Kaevon took a huge step now going
into year four, Okay, who's the other guy. The other
guy is on the offensive side of the ball. And
this was the one that I was a little you know,

(27:18):
didn't know. I fully agreed, not because I don't think
he will be good this year, but he started to
show a lot before getting injured last year. It is
THEO Johnson at tight end was their pick for the
most improved tight end this year. And I mean, I
think THEO Johnson is going to take a year two leap.
I think he's going to show what the way that

(27:39):
he ended his season. Prior to that injury against the Cowboys,
he was starting to really get going. And again we
spoke to speak all the time. It's not that easy
for a rookie tight end to come into the league
year one right and light the league on fire. Obviously,
Brock Bauers he kind of did that last year, but
he was considered you know, a generational talent at tight

(28:00):
then prospect going into the draft. THEO Johnson was a
fourth round pick, obviously not quite the same expectations that
brock Bauers had coming into year one, but he really
started to get going before suffering that foot injury. Yeah,
So this article pretty much saying with the expected improved
play at the quarterback position and with Malik Neighbors drawing

(28:20):
the most attention of the Giants pass catchers, they think
THEO Johnson could take a big step in year two.

Speaker 3 (28:25):
And I will say this, on one hand, I understand
that because he was only a rookie and the production
was limited, albeit good before he got hurt, so it
wasn't like he has already put up some big numbers
before as Kavon Thibodeau did two years ago. So in
that regard, I'm willing to buy that. But the injury

(28:48):
also costing him the last segment of the season also
kind of slides him a little bit into comeback territory
because his season was thwarted, stunted, shortened by an injury,
which I'm with with Matt on this one. I think
the arrow was pointed in the right direction when.

Speaker 2 (29:07):
He went down. Yeah, it certainly was. I mean, again,
I can see where PFF is coming from with these
two selections. I do tend to agree with you that
I don't know if most improved would be the label
I would give them as opposed to just you know,
who might take the biggest step, because it's not like
these either. One of those guys were bad last year.

(29:30):
Which when I think most improved, I think if someone
that struggled in one year and then was significantly better
the next year, right, I mean, that is the definition
of improved, So you know, I'm with you that would
use slightly different verbiage to describe.

Speaker 3 (29:43):
How about this, If JMS, Banks, Tibbs, and Johnson all
have really terrific seasons, the giants are going.

Speaker 2 (29:53):
To be really good, Yeah, Jacks, it will be in
very good shape. We'll just go with that. I think.

Speaker 3 (29:57):
I think that's probably the easiest way to envelope the
answers to this question. Two O one nine nine four
five one three is our phone number. We go to
line two. Rich in Virginia is next to the program.

Speaker 5 (30:09):
Hello, good afternoon, godfather, than Matt.

Speaker 3 (30:13):
What do you say, Rich, Hey, Rich Drake, keep.

Speaker 5 (30:16):
Up the great work. So Bryce Ford Whedon, I haven't
heard anything about him. What's what's going on is is
he hurt again or no? I heard you mention him
in OTAs. I assume he's still on the team.

Speaker 3 (30:31):
Okay, his basic value to the team last year because
he was basically a special teams guy. And I don't
even know how many receiver snaps he played, Matt, I'm
not even sure.

Speaker 2 (30:40):
Maybe you could look that up real quick.

Speaker 3 (30:41):
It was very few, very few receiver snaps. You're not
going to get any production at OTA's out of your gunners.

Speaker 2 (30:51):
That's just not That's not what we're going to see here.
If you want to take a guess on how many
offensive snaps he played for two there you go.

Speaker 5 (31:00):
Yeah.

Speaker 3 (31:01):
So now what I have said, and you know this,
Rich you've been listening to the program for a while.

Speaker 2 (31:06):
I like him a lot. I liked him.

Speaker 3 (31:08):
He was my dark horse a couple of years ago
when he came here as a rookie undrafted free agent.
But but it's clear, at least from what we've seen
to this point, is that they are still looking at
him as a key member of the special teams unit,
and at least in the early OTAs he hasn't gotten

(31:28):
a ton of opportunities.

Speaker 2 (31:30):
Yeah, no, that's that's fair to say. I would I
would think that come training camp and you know, almost
a month and a half, he will get more opportunities
just because there will be more opportunities to be had
by everyone. So I think he will get a little
bit more action at wide receiver. But yeah, we just
haven't seen him out there too much. I mean, they

(31:51):
only have limited, you know, team drills during these OTAs,
and there's only so many snaps that can go around.
There are a lot of wide receivers that are currently
on the ross there. Yeah, and you know, at least
a few handful of them are undrafted free agents, undrafted
rookie free agents where the team wants to see if
they have anything with those guys. I feel like with
Bryce Ford Whedon, while I do think there might be

(32:14):
some untapped potential there, for the most part that he's
been around for a couple of years now, the team
knows his game, they know what he's capable of, and
I think.

Speaker 3 (32:23):
His gunner skills is going to get him a spot
in the fifty three.

Speaker 2 (32:26):
Yeah, he's one of, if not the best gunners on
the team.

Speaker 3 (32:29):
Right, so they know he's going to be here pretty much.
So if you kind of know that, you can maybe
worry about getting him some throws if you want to
do that later on. Right now, they are in a
total fact finding mission with a bunch of these other
guys who have not been here before. They're just coming
on the campus in the last month, and they know

(32:49):
nothing about these fellas.

Speaker 2 (32:50):
Yeah, I mean that's why you see, like you hear
us talking about, you know, Tommy Devido finding all these
different players exactly and these kind of I don't want
to say unnamed but lesser known receivers and tight ends.
It's because those are the guys that are out there
the most right now during these team drills, because the
team just wants to see what they have in these
guys right exactly.

Speaker 3 (33:07):
So Rich I wouldn't necessarily look at it as a negative.
I think it's just a matter of the context of
what we're going through with ota S right now. I
would hope at some point, even if it's light in
camp or just even during the preseason.

Speaker 2 (33:22):
Games, I hope Ford Wheaton does.

Speaker 3 (33:23):
Get some opportunities to produce as a receiver. I'm still
very intrigued by him we just mentioned.

Speaker 2 (33:31):
I mean that's another guy, Matt.

Speaker 5 (33:34):
Because we all know let's say, let's be honest. I
like Slayton a lot. He's inconsistent. I mean, they gave
him a new contract, but let's face it, being really
brutally honest, we really need a no kid and number
two receiver to compliment, you know, neighbors, because if you
don't get you know we have with the status quo,

(33:56):
they're going to do the same. The defenses are going
to do the same thing you did last year. They're
going to double neighbors. We need and I know what
Joe Shane knows is we need a solid number two receiver.
And I hope, you know, I don't know, hope it's
not a strategy, but these plethora of kids that are,
you know, on a team, I hope somebody emerges.

Speaker 3 (34:16):
Well Retch, I think of the giant scheme of things,
they look at Robinson as a significant threat in their offense.
I think they believe that THEO Johnson will be a
significant threat in this offense. So in their mind, I
don't know that they need a clearly defined number two.
Slayton's a very good player, I understand. On the better

(34:39):
teams in this league. He's probably a three, he's not
a two.

Speaker 2 (34:42):
I understand that.

Speaker 3 (34:43):
But you'll also remember, and I don't want to necessarily
make this comparison, but I think it's important to understand.
When Sims led the Giants to a Super Bowl in
eighty six, their number one passing threat was Mark Bavaro.
You know, with the Kansas City Chiefs, Travis Kelcey is
always the go to guy in the passing game, no

(35:05):
matter how many other stars they've had there who have
put up big numbers.

Speaker 2 (35:09):
When Mahomes needs that pass.

Speaker 3 (35:11):
He's going to Kelsey. That's it, and everybody in the
building knows it. So do you need a clearly define
number two receiver. I don't know that you have to
have one.

Speaker 2 (35:21):
Not only that, but obviously at least to start the season.
Who knows how long he'll be at there, but to
start the season. Russell Wilson is the starting quarterback. And
what does Russell Wilson do best? Throw the deep ball?
And what does Darius Slayton. What's the best part of
his game His ability to stretch the defense, take the
top off the defense. So I think with Russell Wilson

(35:43):
under center, Darius Slayton is capable of being the number
two receiver. But I do agree that between Slayton, wandel THEO,
I don't know if one of them will necessarily, you know,
rise or elevate himself way above the others in terms
of like targets or receptions. Maybe Wandell just because of

(36:04):
the nature of most of his receptions. But sure, I
feel like in terms of who will step up as
that number two option in the passing game, that could
change every single week, and you could throw in some
of the running backs in that category. We saw Tyrone
Tracy is more than capable of catching a lot of
passes out of the back camp. Skataboo did that at
Arizona State. We know he can do it. So I

(36:27):
think each and every week there could be a different,
you know, number two pass catcher in terms of I
don't want to say targets, because again Wandell probably will
get the most targets of that group because of the
nature of the type of passes he gets thrown. But
who will step up as the quote unquote number two
option That could change on a weekly basis, which if

(36:48):
you want to rub that lucky rabbit's foot in your
back pocket, and you want to use that word hope,
hope that Jalen HyET breaks out.

Speaker 5 (36:57):
Yeah, amen to that. Amen. I mean that has been
really frustrating. I know, and he hasn't the chances, but
the problem with him, you know, I go back to
sixty one. Your father knew Polly.

Speaker 3 (37:11):
You know, hey, remember before that sixty one season they
traded a first round pick to get del Shofer.

Speaker 5 (37:19):
Oh yeah, I mean, and.

Speaker 2 (37:20):
How did that work out?

Speaker 5 (37:21):
I understand what you're saying. I don't make any predictions
because been Giant fan way too long. But you know,
my hope this year, even though it's not a strategies
I'm out of. I don't say records or anything like that,
is just to be more competitive than these games rush.
If you remember the sixty six Giants, who had the

(37:42):
worst defense in the history in the NFL, gave up
over five hundred points to watch the Giants in the
last few years, and we watch obviously every minute of everything.
It has been painful. They they if they're more competitive
this year and they'll get blown out by Philly and Dallas,
et cetera. You know they'll be okay, because I like
what Joe Shane did On did on the draft and

(38:05):
in the offseason. My biggest concern is the offense. They
have to score more points. If they score more points,
I think they'll be pretty. You know, they'll be competitive.
And that's that's my thought for this year. You know,
been around way too long to prick to anything about
the Giants.

Speaker 3 (38:22):
Then talking about this rich you know, she said.

Speaker 5 (38:24):
You know, entertain me till the day I'm in heaven.

Speaker 3 (38:26):
I got you. Now it's many decades. So I leave
you with this thought. Just remember the darkest times of
the Giants during your your fandom, right, you're talking about
the mid sixties into the late Earl Marril and Gary
Wood with the quarterbacks. Right then you go to the
Yell Bowl days, Yell Bowl days, horrible seasons at the
Yell Bowl and yeah, and Shay Stadium. Craig Morton was

(38:49):
the quarterback. What's the common denominator here? The darkest eras
or darkest years of Giants football. They usually did not
have competent quarterback play. I mean Joe Pizarchik and the
late seventies, you know that that wasn't very cool and
quite honestly, the quarterback Schmortgas board we just saw wasn't
very cool either. So you now have Russell Wilson, a

(39:12):
future Hall of Famer who is on the back nine,
but a future Hall of Famer, you have truly legit
quarterback play. So I don't think you necessarily have to
worry about some of those dark years we've seen in
the past where the common denominator was a really poor
situation at quarterback.

Speaker 5 (39:31):
Yeah, I mean, and I agree with you one hundred percent, Paul.
You know, I remember every one of those guys, even though,
like I said, I love you.

Speaker 2 (39:38):
You'd like to forget about them as a golfer.

Speaker 5 (39:40):
But I really think, you know, honestly, and Russell Wilson,
even if though he's not a back nine, is gonna
give us the best quarterback play we hadn't He should?

Speaker 3 (39:50):
He absolutely should. That's Rich.

Speaker 5 (39:53):
So I'm excited, but you know, I'm gott to tamper that.
You know, I got my colleagues say, you know, are too,
don't don't don't believe the preseason heights. So I'm I'm excited,
but I'm gonna tamper everything.

Speaker 2 (40:06):
Appreciate it. Rich, have a great ditch. Thank you, Oh my, you.

Speaker 3 (40:11):
Know it's funny because every spring that you draft, you
get your free agents, and every team has a certain
level of optimism every spring, right because every team starts
zero and zero, and it's like, well, we're five hundred.
We're not under five hundred. We're five hundred right now,
and you know, if if, if, if, if.

Speaker 2 (40:32):
An if, we can be really good.

Speaker 3 (40:35):
I totally understand that, and that's why I appreciate Rich's perspective.
On the other hand, we've got a few regular calls
on this program who don't even want to recognize any
of the iff's and automatically think that it's going to
be a disaster.

Speaker 2 (40:49):
You know, we're not going there either. Uh, Matt and
Rhode Island, you're next on the program.

Speaker 6 (40:54):
Hello, Hey guys, first time call it here.

Speaker 2 (40:59):
Thank you.

Speaker 6 (40:59):
You kind of touched on some of the points I
wanted to to make with regards to Slayton, But I'm
going to say my piece anyway. I think I think
the fan base is always way too rough on Slayton.
I mean, like you said, he's never had good quarterback play,
especially to his play style, which is the deep ball.
I mean, DJ couldn't even throw one. We just got
him for wide receivers three money. I mean, the thirty

(41:22):
six million dollar deal is super cost effective. And you know,
if we look at this offense this year, we're going
to have neighbors doubled Russ thrown the deep ball like
it's going to be an opportunity for slay And you know,
we wouldn't need to sign him if Jalen Highlight Hyatt
has come around. So you know, if he can show
us something, maybe we can move off to Slayton.

Speaker 5 (41:43):
But until we do, it feels.

Speaker 6 (41:44):
Like we have way bigger problems to solve. So I
want to know what you guys think about Slayton in general.

Speaker 2 (41:50):
Yeah, well, I personally agree with you completely. I think
a lot of people are way too harsh on Darius.
Of course, he's had threat you know, he's been here
six seasons. He's had some issues with drops, of course,
I'm not going to deny that. But he's been just
like the epitome of consistency almost every single year that

(42:11):
he's been here. And as you mentioned, it's been with
what we'll just call not the greatest quarterback play, and
he's still found a way to put up seven hundred
plus yards in what four five four of the six seasons. Yes,
like he's just been so consistent. He's averaging fifteen yards
per reception for his career. That is among of acting

(42:34):
players from the last you know, since he entered the league.
I don't have the exact numbers in front of you,
but I know I was gonna say it's somewhere in
the top ten even last year. It is last year,
which I think we'd all agree, Darius Layton finishing with
five hundred and seventy three yards and two touchdowns not
his best season.

Speaker 3 (42:51):
Since nineteen eighty nine when he came into the league.
His first down percentage on receptions is top twenty in Yeah.

Speaker 2 (43:00):
I mean again, five hundred and seventy three yards last year.
I think we'd all agree that's not the greatest. We
would all love to see that number be higher. He's
still ranked seventeenth in the league and yards per reception seventeenth.
You're telling me that someone for his career who's averaging
fifteen yards per reception can't be a number two receiver
with a quarterback, who's with a quarterback with a quarterback

(43:23):
whose strengths level up directly with what Darius The strainths are.
I think a lot of.

Speaker 3 (43:29):
People when they equate a number two receiver, they're equating
it with if they don't have necessarily the high volume,
they're equating it.

Speaker 2 (43:37):
With a ton of touchdown catches.

Speaker 3 (43:39):
I think there were reasons why people say the guy's
a number two receiver, and I get it. On many
people's definitions, he is not a typical number two receive.

Speaker 2 (43:50):
I get that.

Speaker 3 (43:50):
It's a perception thing. Yeah, reality is he's a really
good player. Of course, that's the reality perception. Whatever you
want to call him, just call him a good play.

Speaker 2 (44:01):
Yeah. Look, not every offense across the NFL can have,
you know, a number one and number two receiver like
the Cincinnati Bengals, Like that's just not realistic for every team.

Speaker 3 (44:11):
Or the Birds down down the Turnpike, Yeah, or are
the Eagles.

Speaker 2 (44:15):
Not every team can build their There are different ways
to build the rosters. Is you know we've discussed so
many times.

Speaker 6 (44:20):
But for the Commanders or the Cowboys this year.

Speaker 2 (44:24):
I mean with the Commanders, they kind of traded for
Deebo Samuel for pennies on the dollar. I know, if
Dibo looks like he did last year, I don't know
if that trade is going to be you know, lauded
that much. If he looks like old Debo, then of
course that will look like a tremendous steal for them.
But that one, uh, let's have it to wait and
see you though. Terry mcglaurin is amazing, But I'm in

(44:46):
a little bit of wait and see mode and going
to happen. Yeah, pick ins, he's got the talent. He's
got a few screws that aren't exactly while he's definitely talented.

Speaker 1 (44:59):
You know what.

Speaker 3 (45:00):
Anyway, go ahead, that's it. Oh he's gone. Oh all right,
two to one, nine, three nine. Thank you for that, all,
Matt for sure, before we get to anybody else again.
Two on one, nine three nine four five one three.
Did you post anything today on social in terms of
the huddles or anything of that nature.

Speaker 5 (45:18):
Uh?

Speaker 2 (45:19):
Oh, yes, we had a new huddle today. Mike Gundy,
Oklahoma State head coach, talking about Corey Black, how you
know his play at Oklahoma State, how he thinks he's
going to fit in with the giants. I have not
given it, had a chance to listen to it yet. Okay,
but Mike Gundy's always a great listen.

Speaker 3 (45:37):
Well again, folks, check out the Giants Huddle Podcast all
kinds of archives stuff from the last few weeks, from
the draft going into it, and then even post draft stuff.
There is plenty plenty there for you to listen to
get some information about some of the Giants young prospects.
Giants Huddle Podcast is on podcast platforms everywhere Giants dot com,

(45:58):
Slash Podcasts and all of your favorite podcast platforms, and
the Giants Mobile app. Also, don't forget that. I know
a lot of people just go right to the mobile
app and they listen to the stuff right through there.

Speaker 2 (46:08):
Yeah, so videos are always up.

Speaker 3 (46:11):
Videos are up Giants TV on the Internet as well
as part of Twitter. Plenty of videos up there. We're
putting stuff up there every single day. And don't forget Also,
your Giant season ticket memberships for the twenty twenty five
season are also available so that you can take in
the action at Bett Life Stadium. Also, you can stay
connected to the club all year round, not just on

(46:32):
game days. You get exclusive membership access and benefits. To
learn more about a New York Giants season ticket membership,
you can go to Giants dot Com slash tickets two A,
one nine three nine four five one three we've got
a few minutes left. We can sneak in a couple
of calls if you guys want to get in. In
terms of the rest of the week, so Tomorrow is

(46:52):
an off day for OTAs, then Thursday's and media day
OTA again, we told you you're going to start the
program one thirty pm Eastern time.

Speaker 2 (47:00):
Is there a OTA on Friday? No, not this week.
They are all from next week. It is Monday, Tuesday, Thursday, Friday.
And do we know the media day next week already
next Thursday. So it's this Thursday and next Thursday. Yep,
So those are the media days.

Speaker 3 (47:15):
So now I could tell you write it down on
your calendar. It's not only this Thursday, but next Thursday.
BBKL starts at one thirty pm Eastern time again, so
that we can get you all the information from the
OTAs and the media sessions and have a chat with
you folks and let you know what's going on here
outside on the practice field. Two on one nine three

(47:36):
nine four five one three is our phone number. It
looks like John's about to throw somebody on hold, and
if he does, we'll take that next phone calls. We
only have a couple of minutes left in today's program.
One other item I did want to bring up, and
you know, we talked about this during rookie mini camp,
and I don't know if it's caught your attention, but

(47:57):
Jackson Dorrit when he's not working with his group of
offensive players on the second field because they split up, Folks,
what you'll usually see is Wilson and Winston will be
with one group of players and they're running snaps on
one field, and then on the other field you'll see
de Vito and Jackson Dart. But when Dart is not

(48:19):
on a separate field, do you notice how attentive he is.
Sometimes he's actually he'll be in the back or on
the side, and as Wilson has taking snaps, he's pretending
like he's taking snaps, and and you know, you know,
he's leaning over, he's looking over, he's watching, he sees
then he's like and take a couple of steps back.

Speaker 2 (48:41):
This guy is working NonStop. I love it. Yeah, I
mean normally, in the situation that you're describing, you know,
behind the play, you'll have you know, coach table Kafka,
Shay Tyranny, like the coaches, yes, standing there. But you're right,
Jackson Dart any chance he gets, and he is not
the one taking the snap, he pretends like he is

(49:03):
the one. He like he'll be like ten steps behind
the huddle and he will be pretending to take the snap,
do a drop back like look at you know, the
receiver that he thinks he would throw the ball to.
Like it's little things like that at this time of year,
you like to see it and I'll take it once
up further. He's not the only one that's doing that
a different position. But you know, we mentioned Malik Neighbors

(49:23):
hasn't had the chance to do much, but during the
huddle during team drills, he goes in the huddle with
the first team offense to listen to the play and
then when they break, he goes it steps back to
that you know, absolute stance with the group behind the huddle.
But Malik is taking every mental rep that he can,
even when he's not actually out there taking the team drill. Yeah,

(49:45):
Coach Table spoke about it last week. Just it doesn't
seem like something that you know, to be too serious.

Speaker 3 (49:52):
But they're letting them out. They walk around.

Speaker 2 (49:54):
Yeah, he was, and he was working out and uh
it was a phase one or phase two of the
workout program. Who's in the gym? So but yeah, he
the two of them taking every single mental rep that
they can when they can't physically actually be out there
for every snap. They're all great to see it because
those are two guys that you would hope will be
the two of the biggest you know, turning points for

(50:16):
this franchise.

Speaker 3 (50:16):
Those two guys for sure, for sure. So anyway, I
did want to mention that because I don't know if
we've talked about that before. I'm glad you and it's
it's it's a good sign at the very least. Brandon
in New Jersey, You're next on the show. Hello, what's
going on?

Speaker 4 (50:30):
Matt?

Speaker 7 (50:30):
What's going on?

Speaker 2 (50:30):
Paul?

Speaker 1 (50:31):
Hi?

Speaker 7 (50:33):
So I got one thing, and then I got a
small criticism of something Matt keeps doing. And then I
got a random suggestion for Paul. Paul, You're gonna have
to be open minded with my suggestions.

Speaker 3 (50:43):
Okay, sure, all right, let's let's go for this. Hey,
hit all three of your items, go ahead? All right.

Speaker 7 (50:50):
So my first Kubar related thing is it's a little
bit like bold predictions kind of area, but or just
something i'd like to see happen. And I first really
like to see Greg Van Roten start at center this year.
And my reasoning for it is when Van Roden was
on the field at guard yes our last year, even

(51:10):
though he's a backup center, there was way less interior
pressure for the entirety of the time he was on
the field. Meanwhile, at the beginning of the year, when
the line was performing its best most of the time,
when there was pressure, it was given up by JSM.
And I think this team is at a point now
where before they were having to draft players and then

(51:31):
just because of the nature of the roster, of the
depth and all of that, a player would be drafted
and immediately expected to start giving the role, not compete
for it, but given to them. JASM is one of
those players, and so far, in my opinion, other linemens
have outplayed him, but they just hasn't been numbers. This
is the first year there's been numbers. And I'd like

(51:54):
to see JSM take a back seat to Van Roaden
and get the best five offensive linemen on the field
at the begin What is your thought on that?

Speaker 3 (52:02):
All right, I'll give you a couple of thoughts. One
will be fact based the other one is strictly a
philosophy and an opinion. I'll start with that part of it.
JMS is going into his third season, which, as we
all know, that needs to be the breakout season for
any of your prospects as they develop. Number three is

(52:23):
a very critical year for that player. I think JMS,
because he's undersized, he has to continuously add to his
power quotient. I think that's where, in my opinion, his
game has led to inconsistencies because there are too many
times that these bigger nose tackles in the league are

(52:44):
able to overpower him. And if he can add to
his power quotient this year, and I don't know exactly
where his strength results are as they're doing their off
season strength and conditioning programs, I don't know where his
numbers are, but he in my opinion, the one thing
he needs to do more than anything else is to
continue to get stronger. So if you're going to put

(53:07):
him slide him on the depth chart, it's not going
to help him. He's not gonna get better, He's never
going to have that chance to break out. If you're
just going to give the job to Van Roten, Van
Roten's already hit his ceiling.

Speaker 2 (53:20):
We know what he is.

Speaker 3 (53:21):
There's no upside to him. There was supposed to be
theoretically upside to JNS. So I think philosophically that's a
counterproductive thing to do. I do believe Van Roten should
be the backup center, and if JMS either does not
play well or it gets hurt, I think Van Roten
should be the center, and I think you'll be okay.

Speaker 2 (53:42):
That's number one.

Speaker 3 (53:43):
My second point is were fact based on my film study,
I had Greg Van Roten allowing seven and a half
sacks last year. I had Schmid's allowing four and a half.
So I would despite the fact that I think Greg
Van Roten played well, uh, I think you're kind of
overestimating a little bit in terms of how much better

(54:06):
you think he played than JMS.

Speaker 2 (54:09):
Just yeah, go ahead, go ahead.

Speaker 7 (54:12):
Can I add something to that though, you can? Van
Roden played which who played with the better line, JMS
or Van Road when he was on the field, like
as an entirety of the group, not just one, Because
I think Van Roden played with our majority. That's when
the line really started to be depleted. Now you got
some issues in other places.

Speaker 2 (54:32):
Well, here's what I.

Speaker 7 (54:34):
More sacks, because there's more help needed and more places.

Speaker 3 (54:37):
You know what I mean, Here's what I will say,
all right. I trudge Van Roden with giving up one
sack in the opening game against Minnesota. He gave up
six and a half sacks between October twentieth against Philadelphia
and the rest of the season. Okay, so in the
first half he had a string of five consecutive games
without allowing a sack, and then his sack umber started

(55:00):
to pile up. I can only tell you those are
the facts. That's not an opinion, that those are facts.

Speaker 2 (55:08):
JMS also started at center through week sixteen. Greg Van
Roden only started the last two games at center. Otherwise
JMS was out there. And you guys, I mean, for
those that listen to this show often, you know, I
love Greg Van Roden. He's very happy that he was
brought back. Overall, I do think in a vacuum he

(55:29):
probably played a little bit better than JMS last year
if you're just putting the two of them individually in
a vacuum. But as you mentioned, Paul, one of them
is going into year three and the other one is
going into year thirteen. Fourteens. Yeah, it's up there. There
is a lot more to gain for this franchise to
continue to grow and develop JMS than it is to

(55:51):
just bench him, no doubt for Greg Van Roden, who's
here on a one year deal again, and to take
it one step further even and you may not want
to hear this, but JMS took a step last year.
Granted that probably is because as a rookie his play was,
you know, not as good as anyone, not as good
as anyone would have hoped. Yeah, but he was better

(56:14):
last year, no doubt about it. He was pretty significantly better.
Now he still needs to get take a big leap
to where everyone needs, where the offensive line needs him
to be. He needs to take another step and he
needs to grow. But year three, as Paul mentioned, is
when offensive linemen are sort of no you know, believed
to take that step is year three. If he takes

(56:35):
a step from last year to this year like he
took from year one to year two, everyone will be
happy with the way.

Speaker 3 (56:42):
Jami said that he was one of the two most
important improvements that you could want, if you were to
identify that. We've already said that, so we understand how
you're not satisfied with how he's played so far.

Speaker 2 (56:53):
That's not a problem. Yeah, I mean, if you look
PFF stat tracks offensive linemen, there are pressures and sacks
allowed on a weekly basis. They have JMS down for
six sacks allowed on the season. Three of those came
on that Thanksgiving game against the Cowboys in which the
Cowboys just say what you want about the game. Obviously

(57:16):
the Cowboys won that game. It was not the best
game for the Giants or the Giants offensive line. Three
of his six sacks allowed came in that one game,
which means he missed the last two games of the season.
So the other was fourteen games he gave up three sacks.
I think we would all sign up for that, you know,
rate of sacks allowed from JMS this upcoming season.

Speaker 3 (57:37):
And I know those are all subjective, right you know,
I mean, sacks are always going to be subjective. So
you know I only have them for four and a
half because I do charge sacks to quarterbacks. Okay, I
don't know if PFF does, but I do. I charge
them the quarterbacks. If the guy held the ball for
five and a half seconds, that's not the offensive lineman's hold.
You know, so I'm a little different. I have a

(57:58):
much more coaches angle when I grade my sacks. But nonetheless,
h John Michael Schmidt's what yeah, what two? I guess
he allowed two in the first half of the season
and two and two and a half in the second
half of the season. I don't you know. I think
you're a little bit more down on him than you
need to be. Anyway, you are two other points, please
go ahead, yes.

Speaker 7 (58:18):
Real quick, final thought on that, and then I'll move on.
I would I'd be interested, you guys only said sacks.
I'd also to be interested to know what the pressure
numbers is. And my reason for that is I think
it'd be easier. I know JMS is in his third year.
I think it'd be easier to let him get a break.
There will usually is some type of injury and then
let him get on the field. And I was supposed

(58:40):
to put him on a short leash at the beginning
of the year and then have to pull him. I
would rather just, you know, the other way around than
having to put him on a short leash because he
still does have another year under contract. I'd be interested
about pressures, not just sacks.

Speaker 2 (58:53):
Real Quick Real Quick branded Real Quick for pressures. JMS
is on the field for one hundred and eighty more
past block snaps this past year than his rookie year,
and he gave up two fewer pressures.

Speaker 7 (59:07):
Well, the numbers are the numbers.

Speaker 4 (59:08):
I won't dispute them, so.

Speaker 2 (59:11):
Number these are pff.

Speaker 3 (59:13):
I always attribute their numbers to their numbers because I
responsible for their numbers. Go ahead, what else do you have?

Speaker 2 (59:21):
Criticize?

Speaker 7 (59:22):
Criticism? And it's more or less on that same line.
My issue again is when players are given spots and
not earned. I'd need the Giants to get to a
point where we set a standard and then you either
meet the standard or we move on. And I think
Matt has already fallen victim to that already. He keeps
saying the words or the phrase franchise quarterback for a

(59:44):
rookie that's never played a snap, and I would like
to I would like to. I would just like to
leave that. I understand if that's the expectation, but I'd
like to leave that phrase until at least a second contract.
I don't think you are a franchise quarterback to your
second contract. So they're a rookie right now, Brandon, I'm
so far down the road that we shouldn't even be
putting that on him yet.

Speaker 2 (01:00:05):
Brandon, I'm fairly confident that any single time I mentioned
Jackson Dart and that phrase, I say hopeful or potential
franchise quarterback, because clearly the tray that the Giants made
in the draft, that is the hope that he gets there.
I have never once said that he is the franchise guy,
because you're right, he hasn't played a single snap in

(01:00:25):
the NFL. Yet. You have to earn that title. It's
not just given to you. So if I have said that,
I apologize. I'm pretty sure I have every single time
I say the hopeful or potential franchise quarterback. He's drafted
with that intention, that's for sure. That's sure. You don't
make that move unless you think he has the potential
to get to that level. Okay, what do you got
for me?

Speaker 4 (01:00:46):
Expectation?

Speaker 7 (01:00:46):
All right, Paulie? Open minded here? Open minded? Please, because
we all know right now you're in good shape. Come
into July, you're going to be shaky, very very jitterally,
very excited and unable to con ain't oneself. I the
end of July, we all know that's coming, right, And
it's never made sense to me why you're so against Madden. Like,

(01:01:09):
I don't understand why you don't play It seems like
the exact game that would get that generating this down
in July when the first time you beat a blitz,
I think it's ob I think you should kind of
play Madden for once instead of just quick I try it,
Try it once. If you don't like it, then boom.

Speaker 4 (01:01:30):
All right.

Speaker 3 (01:01:30):
But Branded, Branded, my power walk a minimum of five
miles a day. That's how I get out my stress
and I get out my jitters. I don't have patience
or time for video games.

Speaker 2 (01:01:41):
I would love to see you try to play Madden. Please,
if you ever want to try, please let me know. Please,
I'll play with.

Speaker 7 (01:01:49):
You this episode. That'd be awesome.

Speaker 2 (01:01:56):
Branded. I appreciate it. Thank you.

Speaker 3 (01:01:58):
That's two one phone number jotted down for the next program.

Speaker 2 (01:02:06):
I would love to see you play with like one
of the guys on the team, have them try to
teach you how to play Madden.

Speaker 3 (01:02:11):
Truth is, I have never ever ever even touched one
play of Madden. And it's been around for thirty years
twenty five years.

Speaker 2 (01:02:20):
How at least twenty five, right, and I had it
growing up. I'm thirty two and it was as long back,
as far back as I can remember.

Speaker 3 (01:02:28):
I have never even attempted to play one snap.

Speaker 2 (01:02:31):
It's a shame. It's a lot of fun. Granted I
haven't played in a while, but I grew up playing
it all the time, and there's a lot of fun.

Speaker 3 (01:02:37):
I was a Donkey Kong guy. You want to talk
about video games, I was a Donkey Kong guy. I
was a pac Man and a misspac Man guy. Galaxian
was another one, right, you know I was. I was
at some of the arcade video games.

Speaker 2 (01:02:51):
You're dating yourself. It's the little well you know. I
get it. I get it.

Speaker 3 (01:02:56):
But those were fun video games at the arcades. But
I was so much into the home video games, you know,
the replications of NBA and Madden, and no, I wasn't
as much into.

Speaker 2 (01:03:09):
Those, missing out a lot of fun but entertaining. I
get it. I'd rather be going for a five mile
power walk, though. I like to get outside.

Speaker 3 (01:03:17):
I like to be active. I don't want to die too.
I was sitting in front of a television, you know,
moving my thumbs.

Speaker 2 (01:03:25):
I'd rather get out and be active. I can't argue
that it helps the blood pressure one hundred percent. To
be out one hundred percent, I can't argue.

Speaker 3 (01:03:32):
That that's how I stay so energetic two A one nine,
three nine four five month. They write it down, folks.
Big Blue Kickoff Live returns tomorrow at twelve thirty pm
Eastern Time for another live edition, and of course you
can always get the program on the IC archive. It
is presented by Cadillac, the official luxury vehicle of the
New York Football Giants. From Outside Tech, I'm Paul Tatino.

(01:03:54):
We'll see again next time.

Speaker 2 (01:03:56):
So long, everybody,