Big Blue Kickoff Live 6/4 | NFC East Position Rankings

John Schmeelk and Matt Citak go through each NFC East team and rank the position groups on offense and defense.

:00 - NFC East offensive position rankings
30:30 - NFC East defensive position rankings

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Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:04):
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Speaker 1 (00:21):
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Speaker 2 (00:23):
Let's go on, Hell dogs an Hello everybody, and welcome
the Big Blue Kickoff Live on this lovely Wednesday afternoon
for me to other for New Jersey from the Quest
Diagnostics Training Center in the Hackensack and Maridine Health podcast studio.
Keep getting better. I am John Shavel. He is Matthew
Sidetad taking your calls right here on Big Blue Kickoff Live.
All right. One of our one of my favorite chops

(00:44):
that we do every year. We do what we've been
probably doing this four or five years now, is we
do our position rankings in the NFC East. So basically,
you take the four NFC East teams, you rank them
by position group. The position groups that we decide to
split them up with this year is a on offense.
I've tried to do five and five and then you
have special teams and coach you have special teams and
coach the five offensive positions or quarterback, running back, wide receiver,

(01:08):
tight end, offensive line. On defense, you have defensive tackles,
so your interior linemen. You have your edge players, so
your guys that rushed the passer at the end of
the line, whether they're your stand up outside linebackers in
a three to four or you're handing the their defensive
ends at a four to three. Then you have your
off ball linebackers. Then you have your quarterbacks, and then
you have your safety. So we have twelve categories. Each

(01:29):
team in the division is right run through four. We
add up the numbers and then we see where we
end up ranking the teams. For the most part, over
the past five years we've been doing this, the Eagles
and the Cowboys have dominated these rankings. I think that
might be the case again for the Eagles this year.
Say one of those teams, yes, but maybe not.

Speaker 3 (01:48):
The rest of them be a little bit closer than
they have in years pass So, I honestly have not
added mine all the way up yet.

Speaker 2 (01:54):
I just did offense. I gotta do defense and then
do the totals. But it's gonna be a lot more
competitive I think that it has been in years past.
Mister Sidetak, are you ready to go? I am ready? Okay,
this is always fun. Do you want to lead us
off or do you want me to go first? Up
to you? All right, I'm gonna go quarterbacks. And this usually,
quite frankly, has been pretty easy. This year was not

(02:19):
easy really, so for me, ranking Prescott and Daniels was
not easy. I had it pretty easily. I went back
and forth, like, would it shock me if Jayden and
Daniels had a better year than Jayden Hurst this year?
Wouldn't shock me? And I think you have to take
the quarterback out of the situation they're in, right, I think?

(02:41):
And I have a lot of respect for Jalen Hurts.
He's a really good player. But if you take him
away from that best offensive line, two great wide receivers,
great running back, really good tight end, and you put
him in Washington and you put Daniels in Philly, is
there much of a difference there? If at all? The

(03:05):
tush push certainly wouldn't be quite as that is true, recessful,
no argument there With that said, and I went back
and forth even on Daniels and Prescott because I think
Dak Prescott's a really good quarterback and Daniel was only
done it for one year. So look, sorry, folks, the
Giants I do have last in this category. I mean,
I don't think that's gonna surprise anyone. It shouldn't, but
that's where they are. But I ended up going Hurts one,

(03:28):
Daniels two, Prescott three, and then the Giants with Russell
Wilson and their guys fourth in that list.

Speaker 4 (03:36):
So you said you went back and forth to come
up with that four. Yes, and that was the four
I came up with, and it took me about You
thought it was easy, really, So you thought it was
that easy?

Speaker 2 (03:45):
Huh? Interesting?

Speaker 4 (03:46):
You know, I'll take that back in one regard. I
did for a I would say two seconds, be like
Jalen Hurts, or could Jayden Daniels already be number one
after one year? But then I pumped the brakes. Remember
that it was only one year and Jalen Hurts did
just win the Super Bowl.

Speaker 2 (04:06):
That's for a lot of these. I didn't do any ties.
I know you said we were allowed to do ties.
I didn't do any ties either.

Speaker 4 (04:12):
I didn't do any because if there were two that
were I had basically the same, and the Eagles were
one of them, and the position group is returning from
last year. I gave them the benefit of the doubt
because they just won the Super Bowl. I also then
took depth into consideration. I kind of took who the
backups were in a little bit more, and then I
would kind of elevate one group over the year.

Speaker 2 (04:31):
That's fair.

Speaker 4 (04:32):
So I also had Hurts at one, Jade and Daniel's
at Towa. And now we see all the time quarterbacks
hit that sophomore slump, so maybe he takes a little
bit of a step back. I don't think he's going
to take a big step back, considering they added pieces
all around him, including some two very big pieces up
front in addition to a playmaker, which we'll get into

(04:54):
all of that. But I gave him the benefit of
the doubt. Number two over Dak Prescott. Prescott comes in
a number three, and that's no disrespect to Dak. I
think it just speaks more towards how much we think,
how highly we think of Jalen, Hurts and Jade and
Daniels and then ye giants round out the group at
number four.

Speaker 2 (05:11):
And by the way, and this is why I had
some trouble with it. It appears to be favorite. I
actually do need those four depth charts on my desk.
I apologize that. He asked me before the show of
bened to know and I said, no, I don't. But
I actually could use those four depth charts in front
of me instead of having to navigate them on the computer.
Like if we got to the end of the year
this year, like, would it shock me if we looked
at the numbers and deck Prescott had the best numbers

(05:33):
of those three quarterbacks in terms of passing yards and touchdowns.
That wouldn't surprised me at all before He's he did
it two years ago.

Speaker 4 (05:38):
But he just doesn't have any part of the running
aspect of his game racked that the other two guys.

Speaker 2 (05:44):
I think he has the receivers, and he also has
a very young offensive line, which is something we'll talk
about here too. So I'm with you. So I went
Prescott three, Giants four, and that's how I rounded out
the quarterback position.

Speaker 4 (05:54):
And I will say, yes, please, I genuinely hope that
when we have the same exact conversation one year from now,
we do not have the Giants at number four and
because Jackson Dart has shown us enough whenever he goes
in this year where we feel confident at least putting
him not at number four.

Speaker 2 (06:13):
And by the way, the other reason I thought about
putting Washington ahead of Philly thought about him his end.
This is a quarterback room. It's not individual's quarterback room.
The backup. I think Mariota is a better backup than
what they have in Philadelphia. I don't even know who's
I don't remember who's the Eagles back Panna McKay, Kyle McCord,
Dorian Thompson, Robbs. Yeah, Mario definitely is better than that.

Speaker 3 (06:32):
Correct, And that was and that was another reason, Like
they're close, I think Mariota is better.

Speaker 2 (06:36):
Does that then push them ahead? But the guy just
won the Super Bowl. And by the way, for the
most part, in the last two Super Bowls Jalen Hurts
has played in, it's been phenomenal. Yeah, you think great,
so and and the toush push running aspect up the two,
he's been very consistent. O'll Jake Daniels running obviously has
been wonderful. Anyway, why don't you take the running backs?
This one was easy for me.

Speaker 4 (06:58):
Yes, Likewise, so number one. Sorry Giants fans, but the
Eagles with Saquon Barkley, they get number one. I don't
think anyone's gonna argue against that. I don't think so
number two. I went with the Commanders Brian Robinson. I
think he's just one of the one of the most
underrated backs.

Speaker 2 (07:17):
In the league.

Speaker 4 (07:18):
Interesting, I really like Brian Robinson in his game that
it doesn't even go into what he's overcome the last
couple of years since being drafted. But and Austin Eckler
as the number two receivers the number two running back. Obviously,
he doesn't quite have the juice that he had a
couple of years ago, but he is still a talented
pass catcher. I would say one of the better pass

(07:40):
catching backs in the NFL, despite his somewhat older age.
So I went with the Commanders two, and then went
with the Giants at number three. I think Tyrone Tracy
showed a good amount in his rookie season last year.
I think if he had been starting from Week one,
he would have topped one thousand yards on the ground.

(08:02):
I mean he did top one thousand total scrimmage yards.
He ended up with eight hundred something rushing yards, but
that was with barely playing the first couple weeks. I
think he's gonna show he's gonna take a jump this
year with just improved offensive play all around him. I
think Cam Skadabu being added to the room adds a
little more juice and some power to that running back group.

(08:25):
And then if you know Devin Singletary is your number
three back, I don't know if you can find a
better number or more reliable number three back anywhere in
the NFL. So I had them in number three, and
then the Cowboys completely revamped their running back room from
top to bottom, so they get number four because they're
kind of taking a chance on two older veterans in

(08:46):
Javante Williams and Miles Sanders.

Speaker 2 (08:48):
Correct, I believe Miles.

Speaker 4 (08:50):
Sanders, which I do think Javante Williams, I mean it
feels like he's been in.

Speaker 2 (08:55):
The league for like a decade.

Speaker 4 (08:56):
He's only a couple of years into his career. And
and Jayden Blue they drafted as well. They did draft
Jayden Blue, who I like Jayden Blue, but bat Javonte Williams.
It was I think it was two years ago that
he had that serious injury for m to miss most
of the year. Last year was his first year back.
Didn't seem quite like he did prior to the injury,
which one year later, that's kind of expected when you

(09:18):
have a series of an injury as he did. He
all reports are saying that he is one hundred percent
healthy now. I think he's going to look more like
he did at the beginning.

Speaker 2 (09:26):
Of his career. So I am putting the Cowboys at
number four.

Speaker 4 (09:30):
But I don't want anyone to sleep on Javonte Williams
because I do think if he can return even to
like eighty five percent of his form that he showed
like as a rookie, the Cowboys running back room will
be significantly better this year. And I do think Jayden
Blue also could play somewhat of a role. Miles Sanders,
I think he's towards the back nine of his career.

(09:52):
He didn't show much last year. I agree with him.
So that is why I have the Cowboys at number four.

Speaker 2 (09:56):
Okay, we had the same ranking, except we had had
two teams swapped. I had the Giants ahead of Washington Fair.
I am not as hot. I like Brian Robinson. I
am a Brian Robinson fantasy owner. I've been an owner
of his since he came into the league, so I'm
very familiar with his work, his injury issues. He tends
to get hurt, He's not healthy all the time, and
while he's a good big body back, he's not super explosive,

(10:17):
doesn't get a lot of big plays. And I realize
I'm going a lot on potential here with the Giants.
But you know what a big Timelin Tracy fan I am.
I think he's fantastic. I like Cam Scatabow and frankly,
I don't know how much worse Devin Singletary is than Robinson,
to be honest with you, like if they're on the
open market and teams and they were the same agent,

(10:39):
teams are looking to sign one, I don't know if
Robinson makes that much more money than a Singletary. So
I like the Giants depth a little bit more. Eckler
is just a little bit too old for me. I
can't get that excited about it. So it's close, But
I went with the Giants ahead of Philadelphia, and then
I'm with you. I Dallas last in this group. If
Williams can bounce back, that might push them up here.

(11:00):
But I don't think you're just seeing enough from that
spot where you feel good about it. Yeah, agreed, And
I will say I did this one.

Speaker 4 (11:07):
I did have a little bit of difficulty with the
two teams that we have swapped.

Speaker 2 (11:11):
I did kind of go back and forth.

Speaker 4 (11:13):
But I just think, again, I love Tyrone Tracy as well,
and I think he could take a big step this year.
But just from what we've already seen, I decided to
give Brian Robinson.

Speaker 2 (11:24):
The very, very slight edge over Tyrone Tracy. Okay, let's
go to wide receiver. I'll go first here. This one
was hard. Yeah, I felt pretty good about putting the
Eagles first. With Devonte Smith and AJ Brown. I just
think AJ Brown and Ceede Lambs a wash. They're both phenomenal,
They're great, They're great, and I just think I have

(11:45):
a little bit more confidence in Devonte Smith than I
doing George Pickens. So I gave the Eagles the edge
over the Cowboys there, and look at their third receivers.
Neither team it isn't particularly strong. I don't know how
excited you get about Johann Dotson and then you have,
you know, the Jalen Tolberts of the world for Dallas,
which doesn't get me all that excited. So I thought
Dotson is better than over the Cowboys third wide receivers

(12:07):
as well, so I gave the edge of the Eagles there.
I have Dallas at two because I just think the
Lamb Pickens combination is really, really strong, and I think
the reason I put them over the Commanders is I
have Lamb on a slightly higher level than I do mclauren.
And I love Terry McLaurin. I think he's wonderful, but
I think Lamb is probably a little bit better of
a receiver in terms of everything that he can do

(12:29):
moving inside to the slot. I just think he's on
a little bit of a higher level. And I don't
know how much Deebo Samuel has left in the tank.
You know, he's a little bit older. He gets hurt
a lot. He's not your traditional wide receiver that runs
great routes and gets separation. He's a run after the
catch type of guy. He just takes the way he
is running style. He just takes such a pounding. I

(12:51):
don't know how much left he has left and how
much longer he can stay healthy consistently throughout an entire year.
So I have Washington three, and then the Giants were, Oh,
you know, Malikue Neighbors. He just has improven it over
a longer period of time, the same way mclauren and
Brown and Lamb has. But I certainly think he has
the ability to be on that next level. But Neighbors

(13:12):
wasn't the reason the Giants are fourth. And we've talked
about this before in the show. The Giants number two
just lags behind the number two I think on the
other three teams in the division. So they don't have
a Pickens, they don't have a DeVante Smith, they don't
have a Deebo Samuel. We like Darius Lane. He's a
really good player, but again just look at the salary.
He gets paid more like a three than he does
like it two. Right, So for that reason I got

(13:33):
the Giants fourth year, I have Philly, Dallas, Washington Giants.

Speaker 4 (13:39):
I have the same Okay, yeah, I mean I agree
with everything you said. AJ Brown and DeVante Smith. Again,
dayre's coming off the Super Bowl, and even if they
weren't coming off the super Bowl, I probably still would
have gone with them as the number one tandem of
the division.

Speaker 2 (13:54):
This made me realize though, there are some really good
wide receivers in this division.

Speaker 4 (14:00):
Now, like thank god that the Giants, you know, put
resources in the last two offseasons to improve the secondary,
because boy, they couldn't needed improved secondary with all of
these improved passing games across the division. But AJ Brown
and Devoute Smith number one. I this the number two
and three I had a lot of difficulty with. I

(14:20):
ended up doing the same thing as you because I
do agree that Ceedee Lamb is a I give the
slight edge over Terry McLaurin, And again no disrespect to
Darry McLaurin. It just I think Ceedee Lamb is a
top five wide receiver in the NFL, and I think
mclauren would be one of the top guys in that
next tier right below that tier of Ceedee Lamb. You

(14:43):
know AJ Brown and that so yeah, Cowboys too. And
I also George Pickens. You know, he obviously has his faults,
he has some you know, issues with his game on
or off the field.

Speaker 2 (15:00):
But he's still so young.

Speaker 4 (15:03):
He still has shown flashes of being he shows flashes
of being a number one wide receiver, and he's now
the number two in doubt. I mean, Dallas doesn't call
him their number two receiver. They're kind of saying it's
one A and one B. But let's be real, CD
Lamb is obviously the number one receiver there. And I
have the same sort of reservations about Deebo Samuel. I
think if he can look like the Debo that we

(15:24):
saw just you know what, two three years ago, then
all of a sudden, the Commanders could be at number
one in this group. But with how he looked last
year and everything he said about the way he plays
the game, and how much he has left in the tank,
like maybe the change of scenery will kind of give
him some sort of rejuvenation and a boost. But until

(15:46):
I see it, I got to put him below Pickens
and DeVante Smith, and then the Giants come in at
number four. Again, if we were just talking about number
one receivers, I think you, even though he's only done
it one year, you could make an argument that the
league neighbors would belong above.

Speaker 2 (16:03):
Terry McLaurin.

Speaker 4 (16:04):
I agree with that, but as you said, it's the
whole wide receiver room and the other three teams in
the division the number two receiver. The floor is just
a lot higher than what the Giants have at the
number two receiver. And again that is no disrespect to
Darius Slayton, because I think he is a very solid
wide receiver, but he just isn't in the same ballpark as.

Speaker 2 (16:23):
Those other three guys, at least not right now. Pierson,
do me a favor. You see, I see you're tracking
these in the dock. Switch it around. So if your
last you should be one point, if your first you
should be four points. I know I'm killing you now,
that's right. That one. We can actually add them up
properly at the end, though, okay, because because I want
to add him up at the end to see where

(16:46):
we're at. So if you can just make those adjustments,
I will. I will put tight end in myself. Okay,
don't worry about it all right, Site that give me
tight end here, Okay, tight end.

Speaker 4 (16:55):
This one again had a little bit of trouble with
because so I went with Philadelphia at number one.

Speaker 2 (17:03):
With Dallas Goddard, and I just I go back.

Speaker 4 (17:06):
To this offseason when they were all those reports about
the Eagles basically trying to get rid of Dallas Goddard,
and at the time, I couldn't fully wrap my head
around it. I still obviously they work things out. He's
staying there for at least this season. I still fully
don't understand why they were I guess inclined.

Speaker 2 (17:23):
To try to move him. He's just a money thing.
I guess it's a money thing. And he's had.

Speaker 4 (17:27):
Some like somewhat minor injuries, you know, he's missed a
couple of games, it seems like every year. But he's
still I think the top tight end in the division
right now, number two one with Jake Ferguson and the Cowboys.
So again, he's a young player that I think is
still ascending. I think, you know, it wouldn't shock me

(17:50):
if a year from now we're talking about him as
the number one tight end in the division, especially given
the age of some of the other guys not on
the Giants, but the other two teams Eagles Commanders. But yeah,
Jake Ferguson is just he's been consistent and reliable. You know,
he is Dak Prescott's security blanket. Anytime he's in trouble,
he just looks to Ferguson no matter where he is.

Speaker 2 (18:11):
On the field. Block. Yeah, so I put him at
number two at number three, which if he had told
me I would have done this a year ago, I
would have been very surprised. But I went with the
Commanders at number three. Zach Ertz is still good.

Speaker 4 (18:26):
Zach Ertz last year showed that he clearly still has
some gas left in the tank, because, oh, the year before,
it looked like he was, you know, on his way
to retirement. It looked like this guy is completely shot.
I don't know if he's got anything left. He showed
last year with good quarterback play there's still plenty left there,
and he hit a phenomenal season. So zach Ertz number three,

(18:49):
and then the Giants come in a number four again.

Speaker 2 (18:51):
I think we both agree.

Speaker 4 (18:52):
We love THEO Johnson and we think he could take
the step to become a very very good tight end.

Speaker 2 (18:58):
But he's only one year in his career.

Speaker 4 (19:00):
Not only that, but the first half of last season
quite frankly, he didn't he didn't show that much. I mean,
he was a rookie tight end getting accustomed to you know,
NFL speed, and he just wasn't really a fact.

Speaker 2 (19:13):
Now, he picked it up in his last five games, but.

Speaker 4 (19:16):
Then he had the foot injury that made him miss
the final month of the season with you.

Speaker 2 (19:20):
He's now fully healthy.

Speaker 4 (19:21):
I think again, a year from now, it would not
shock me in the slightest bid if we're talking about
THEO Johnson way higher in this ranking.

Speaker 2 (19:29):
But right now I gotta put him in number four.
I have no notes. I'm same rankings, same opinions. I
think the Giants room actually has more upside than both
the Washington and Dallas rooms. They have enough young guys
with ability where I think if they figure it out,
they could vault past those two teams this year. But
they're not. They haven't proven it yet, they haven't shown
it yet. So I'm with you. I don't think you

(19:50):
could do it any other way, though, I'm sure if
THEA Tina will figure out what to do another role
when he does his rankings on Friday with with lads.
Oh Pierson, you gotta tell me how much those guys
fight with each they're doing the rankings on Friday. It's
it's gonna be wonderful.

Speaker 3 (20:03):
And you're already adjusted the rankings. That was like two seconds. Yeah,
you're all dramatic about it. Help please, all right, let's
go to you should see his arms are in the air.

Speaker 2 (20:13):
He's like, ah, I write it doing to me, it's like, okay,
we'll do your system.

Speaker 3 (20:17):
Yeah, well, in order to add the things up that
it's the least system the least yeah, because that's how
games work. What you score the least points, you win.
And that happens all the time. It's not golf golf.
All right, Let's go to.

Speaker 2 (20:33):
The offensive lide here, and Matt, I say this with pride.
This is the first time since we've been doing this
the Giants were right ahead of the Dallas Cowboys on
my list. Wow, first time ever. So I have the
Eagles at one, which is not a surprise, and the
fact that the Eagles have been number one in every
offensive category for both of us probably is not a

(20:54):
great side for trying to win the division this year.

Speaker 4 (20:57):
Just saying as soon as I made the rankings, I
took a look at offense, I was like, oh, boy, yeah,
that's good.

Speaker 3 (21:02):
I did the same exact thing, and I'm like, oh,
this could be a problem. Boys ed girls. None of
them were even that like debatable where it's like, there's
the reason why they're the raiding super Bowl champions. The
reason in the rating super Bowl champions that is correct.
The defense, by the way, is much more equalized when
when when we get to that. But look, the Eagles
offensive line is fantastic. They don't have a hole.

Speaker 2 (21:23):
Uh they've moved some guys in and out, but Jordan
Mylotta and Lane Johnson are fantastic. Jacam Jurgen's just stepped
up at guard. Landon Dickerson already got a big money contract.
You know, Tyler Stein at right guard, or if it's
Kenyan Green maybe that steps in there. That's really your
one weak point. But it's not much of a weak point.
So Eagles are awesome. They're great. They're number one. I

(21:45):
have the command. There's a number two here. This is
one of the first times. I think this is the
first time they've ever been ranked second in this category
two since I've been doing this. Their offensive line has
been a struggle. But they bring in Lammie Tunsel, who's
a excellent left tackle. I know, have a great year
last year, but he's very good. Sam Cosmy has turned
out to be a pretty good right guard. Tyler Biattish

(22:06):
is a very solid center. Nick Allergrady's fine at left guard,
and then they have two young players Brandon Coleman and
Josh Connolly Junior a right tackle, and I think one
of those guys will figure it out. A couple ex
Giants Bobby Hard and Tyree Phillips over there on the
right side as well, believe it or not, still in
the league. Bobby Hart's still kicking baby. So I think

(22:27):
it's pretty good. I think they have a pretty good
group there. I considered putting the Giants two. I really did.
If you told me Andrew Thomas was going to be
healthy for the entire year, I probably would have. But
that injury just scares me enough that I have them
slid down below the commanders. But that was a very

(22:47):
very tough call for me, very tough call. So I
have the Giants three again, just not a lot of holes.
Van Roden's good. The Andrew Thomas injury stuff is a
potential problem. Ilumin Or is fine at right tackle. John
Michael Schmid it's at center. That's one of the things.
You got to figure out. Where's he at? How is
he doing? Can Evin Neil claim one of the guard spots.
But I have the Giants in a very solid number two.

(23:10):
And then I look at the Cowboys offensive line side
tack in a lot of ways. The way I look
at the Giants tight end room where I like the
players a lot, and look, we know Tyler Smith is terrific,
but he's their only guy on that line right now.
That's a Pro Bowl caliber player and he's a guard. Okay,

(23:31):
But they have a first round pick in Tyler Goyton.
They have a first round pick and Tyler Booker. They
have a third round pick in Cooper bb So they
have three young guys. Terren Steeles, you know he's fine
at right tackle whatever, but I think a littlemore is
better than him. One of the reasons why I have
them behind the Giants in this list. Can Cooper Beby
continue to improve? I think you like what you saw
from him as a rookie. I think he did a

(23:51):
nicey year, but can he get better? Tyler Goidon is
a huge question to left tackle. He's the biggest left
tackle in the division, biggest question at left tackle in
the division. Again, why I had the Cowboys in number
four here and then you never know what a rook
he's gonna do. In Tyler Booker, you know you think
he's gonna be really good. I think both of us
think he's gonna be really good. But it takes offensive
lineman time. Sometimes you just don't know. We thought Kenyan

(24:12):
Green was gonna be aweso when he got drafted in
the first round. Two Ho did that work out? Not
too good? So that's why I have the Cowboys in
number four on this list.

Speaker 4 (24:20):
All right, So we finally have one where we've got
some differences.

Speaker 2 (24:23):
Okay, what do we got?

Speaker 4 (24:24):
Well, we agree on number one. Unfortunately the Eagles. I mean,
that was easy. That would be the easiest one in
this entire thing, because they've been perhaps the best offensive
line in the NFL.

Speaker 2 (24:35):
For how many years now? Too many? Too many? But
two through four we have different Oh, I like it nice.

Speaker 4 (24:43):
I'm gonna start with number four, and that pains me
to say it, but I had the Giants at number four,
really okay, And it's only because I mean, I've spoken
on the show I don't even know how many times
about how solid the offensive line was the first six
weeks of this season, and I stand by that, and
all five.

Speaker 2 (25:02):
Of those guys are back.

Speaker 4 (25:04):
But as you mentioned, there is the injury concerns with
Andrew Thomas. You can't deny those anymore. It's been two
straight seasons that he's missed at least half, if not
more than half of the year. Again, if you told
me Andrew Thomas guaranteed to be healthy all seventeen games,
or even put it even fifteen, fifteen or fourteen, yeah,

(25:27):
I would have the Giants higher.

Speaker 2 (25:29):
But how high would you have them? Honestly, I might
have them at number two. Yeah, so would I. I'm
with them, I really would.

Speaker 4 (25:37):
But because that is a big concern, and because we've
just seen and again the Giants improve their depth a
lot this year. Clearly that was a priority of the
off season with all the different veterans they brought in
with Marcus bo Like, making sure they had more depth
on the offense line clearly was a priority for the
front office. However, even with all those additions, I'm not

(26:01):
going out on a limb by saying if you take
Andrew Thomas out and put anyone else in at left tackle,
the line takes a serious hit.

Speaker 2 (26:08):
YEP.

Speaker 4 (26:10):
So I have the Giants at number four. Unfortunately, again
Andrew Thomas is healthy.

Speaker 2 (26:15):
That number is. They are higher, without a doubt, But.

Speaker 4 (26:20):
And I also just I need to see a little
I think I can agree that we need to see
a little more from JMS at center. I mean, if
you told me again, if you told me that, even
disregarding the Andrew Thomas part of it, that JMS was
going to take a big jump in year three, I
would have the Giants at least one spot higher as well.
But he just he took a step last year from

(26:42):
his rookie year. I need to see another big step
this year, and then I would feel a whole lot
better about the line as a unit. And I also
then had number two at number three, different from you.
I have the Cowboys at.

Speaker 2 (26:56):
Number two, okay, And.

Speaker 4 (27:00):
I agree that the Tyler guiding thing, he's certainly, without
a doubt, the biggest question mark among all.

Speaker 2 (27:06):
Four of these left tackles.

Speaker 4 (27:07):
When you look at the other four guys, I feel
pretty confident about all four of them. Again, that does
include Tyler Booker, who is a rookie, and you can't
guarantee anything with rookies, especially offensive linemen. But again, Tyler
Booker going into the draft was considered one of the
safest picks that offensive line. I just I think he's

(27:32):
going to slide right in at that right guard position
and just not misbeat.

Speaker 2 (27:36):
And given how the Cowboys are Jets an offensive lineman,
especially guards before that tracks with how they've drafted well.

Speaker 4 (27:42):
And I do think the Cowboys interior offensive line is
a lot better than the two tackles. The two tackles
would be the two positions that there is a little
bit of I don't want to say cause for concern,
but you know, raise a little bit of a flag.
But then you look at the Commanders. Of course they
did the trade for Laramie Tunsel and he's phenomenal, but

(28:03):
at right tackle between Brandon Coleman and Josh Connelly, Like,
I think Josh Connelly is going to be good, but
I think he's more of a question mark than Tyler Booker, at.

Speaker 2 (28:13):
Least for year one.

Speaker 4 (28:15):
That so, and I just again, I like Laramie Tunsall,
I like Sam Cosmey, and I think Josh Connelly could
become a very good right tackle, but I just need
I need to see it from that right tackle position
in the Commanders and then with Tyler Biattish and Nick

(28:36):
I just I think take the Cowboys interior line over them.
That again, that one was close, by the way, I
love the fact that this is actually a close category
for once, were not just like the Johnson last because
that's kind of what it's been until last year, and
it's just not that way anymore, which I think is
a really for sure. Again, if if either Andrew Thomas
stays healthy or JMS takes a jump this year, we're

(29:00):
having this conversation next year.

Speaker 2 (29:01):
I don't think the Giants will be number four. And
if they both do those things, they're easy two. Depending
on how the Cowboys young guys wanted up being awesome,
then that could be a different conversation, but they would
certainly be higher connorly and correct commanders, but clear it
certainly would be not number four, which is I feel
like where they've been, as you said, every year for
I don't know how many years now. By the way, folks,

(29:22):
if we don't get to your calls, that I apologize,
but I think this is a good exercise. And we've
already gone a half an hour only got through half
of them, so there's a good chance we're not going
to take any calls, but we'll see how it goes.
And now we get to the fun ones, Yes we
do so I added the offense here, Pierce, and you
can double check my Matt, but I did it well.
While Matt was going through his offensive line breakdown here.
So both of us have the Eagles with twenty total
points on offense, five points of four points in each

(29:43):
of the five categories awesome. We both had Washington with twelve,
so that was identical for both of us. I had
Dallas at ten, you would Dallas at twelve. I had
the Giants with eight points. You had the Giants with
six points. So basically was identical, except we had two points.
Swap back and forth Giants and Cowboys, and most of

(30:04):
that came I think on the offensive line. It was
the line and then line running running back. I running
back one higher for the Giants, and you did I
had them too, you would them. I'll say, in those
two categories, I hope you're right and I'm wrong. I'd
love to see these rankings for the Giants if we
were just like plopped ourselves into the NFC South or something. Yeah,
story or the afcond vision. It's just so good. It's

(30:26):
just so good. Absolutely, But this is one of the
gets a little bit different. And you know, the Giants
made a lot of improvements on defense and additions on
defense this offseason, so we can go here. First, I
did O line first, So why don't you take defensive tackles? Okay,
defensive tackle coming in and number one your New York Giants.

Speaker 4 (30:43):
Oh, okay, And I think obviously Dexter Lawrence is one
of the best, if not the best, interior defensive lineman
in the NFL. I mean, I think I actually PFF
did a rankings of the top thirty two inch or defenders.
They had him at number two, with Chris Jones being
at number one, which if you're talking about this one

(31:08):
season upcoming alone, I can maybe you know, say, okay,
that's fair. Long term, Dexter Lawrence is easily the number one,
you know, the number one defensive tackle with the future.
Considering the future as well, I mean, two time All
Pro would have been an All Pro last year if
he didn't end up missing the second half of the season.

(31:29):
Despite the fact that he missed what was it, the
last five games, He's still set a career high in
sacks with nine. He was still voted first team All
Pro and nose Tackle by the Players Association, so his
peers still considered him an All Pro. He's just phenomenal
and while the spot next to him in years past

(31:50):
has been a weakness. Since you know, the departure of
Leonard Williams, it's been a weakness. Well, the Giants made
sure to address that position this offseason. Rakim noon Is
Roaches is still here. And then the Giants went out
and sighed Roy Robertson, Harris, Chauncey Golston, Jeremiah Ledbetter, the
drafted Darius Alexander. I think all of those guys are

(32:11):
gonna get playing time this year. Maybe one of them rises,
you know, rises to the top of that group and
ends up playing significantly more playing time than the others,
but at least to start, I think they're all kind
of gonna get maybe not all. Ledbetter is kind of
more of a you know, run stopper. Chauncey Golston's gonna
line up all over the defensive line, but nonetheless, a

(32:35):
lot of resources are put towards the interior defensive line,
and when you already have Dexter Lawrence there.

Speaker 2 (32:40):
To me, this was a no brainer. Number one for
the Giants, and almost just as easily. Number two for
me was the Eagles.

Speaker 4 (32:48):
Yep, because everything I just said about Dexa Lawrence and
number one future defensive tackle Jalen Carter's not very far
behind him. Jalen Carter is phenomenal, and while.

Speaker 2 (33:01):
Jordan Davis hasn't quite lived up to you know, his
draft hype yet. And I don't want to, you know,
drink this kool aid because I feel like I did
it last year too. But I literally this morning, prior
to putting this together, saw one of your classic off
season of reports that Jordan Davis is in the best
shape of his life. I don't want to fully buy

(33:21):
into that. Like this number one ranking is more more
so because of Jalen Carter and even you know, even
Byron Young behind him. He's a solid player. But if Jordan.

Speaker 4 (33:32):
Davis can take a bit of a step that into
your defensive line is going to be a problem. It
already is somewhat of a problem, but it's going to
be even more so of a problem coming in at
number three. Again, pretty easy for me was the Washington Commanders,
uh Doran Pai. They lost Jonathan Allen, which, even though
he was coming off not the greatest year, I still

(33:55):
think he's a good player. He's now with the Vikings,
but they still have Doron Payn. They went outside Javon Kinlaw,
who I think is still a very solid interior defensive tackle,
and they have Jerzone Newton, who was only going into
year two dealt with injuries last year, didn't really show
a whole much, but I think we were both very

(34:15):
high on him going into that draft.

Speaker 2 (34:17):
Yep, and even you know Eddie Goldman is the is
the fourth.

Speaker 4 (34:22):
Solid like they have depth as well, So that was
a pretty easy choice for me at number three, and
then easily number four with the Cowboys.

Speaker 2 (34:30):
I mean, I don't osa, how do you Pronounceazua is
the only guy in this group that I even think
is honestly worth talking about. I mean, Salomon Thomas is fine,
He's okay as a backup and has been a huge disappointment,
huge disappointment. If Manzi Smith had lived up to his
where he was drafted, the Cowboys wouldn't be number four.

(34:52):
It's funny, but he has just been such a disappointment
that for me this was a no brain. So Paul
and I did a review of the twenty three draft class,
not just the Giants, like the whole draft on Monday,
and one of the takeaways I had with Mazzie Smith
was that a lot of people thought in me, including
that you know, maybe it wasn't a great pick, but
it was a safe pick, you know, because you saw
Mazzie Smith be a great run defender in college, why

(35:12):
wouldn't he be a great run defender in the NFL.
Just hasn't worked out. So maybe safe picks aren't as
safe as you think they might be when you make them.

Speaker 4 (35:20):
Every year we hear about safe picks, and then a year,
two years, three years down the road, we look back
and that guy was a disappointment and correct. All of
a sudden, I guess he wasn't that safe of a pick. Yeah,
so I think the thing is a safe pick.

Speaker 2 (35:31):
I think the idea of safe picks or something we
need to start pushing out of the vernacular. Unless the
player is just so good that he's safe because he's
just that good. But you know, all right, well he
did this, and you know he's gonna do this. Maybe
he pumped the brakes in that a little bit. All right,
We were very similar, except I had one swap, but
you made a really good case. But I'm gonna stick
to my guns. I have Philly one of the giants too,

(35:52):
just because I think and I was never as big
on the big man Jordan Dave as everyone else was
coming out. But I think the Giants would love to
have a Jordan Davis stopping to run on their defensive line.
I think they would love to have a guy like that.
So and I do think the Giants depth on the
defensive front is a little bit better than Philadelphia, which
almost inches them ahead of them. To be honest with you,

(36:15):
but while Dexter Lawrence is a small step ahead of
Jalen Carter, I think Davis is probably a little bit
of a bigger step against wherever the Giants' second best
defensive tackle is. So I have Eagles one, Giants right
behind the two, and then like you, I have you know,
Washington to two at three. I think you broke that
down perfectly, and then Dallas comping up with the number four.

(36:36):
So look that that's fair.

Speaker 4 (36:39):
I think that And this could just be my opinion,
but I think the Giants have better death at defensive tackle.
I agree that the Eagles with at that I don't
necessarily disagree about the number two spot with Jordan Davis. Again,
as I mentioned, the Giants are gonna mix in the
group of guys that they have until hopefully one rises

(36:59):
to the top. But until that happens, it's gonna be
a little bit of a you know, Schmorgesborg. So I
I agree with you at Jordan Davis probably being a
little bit higher of a number two defensive tackle than
what the Giants have.

Speaker 2 (37:12):
I just gave the Giants a nod. No, and that's
fine because of the day I lost Milon Williams. Right Williams,
And we're gonna talk about the loss of Josh Sweat
in our next category here on the on the edge,
where the Eagles have consistently been at the top of
this category, and they're not this year. Nope. The Giants
have the best edge class in the NFC East. They have,

(37:32):
you can argue, the second best edge rusher other than
the Micah Parsons and Brian Burns. You have a very
very good player, a young player in Keevon Thibodeau. You
have Abdul Carter, who is the third overall pick in
the draft, who is all the talent to be a
top edge plush edge player in the league for a

(37:53):
very very long time. And look, Brian Burns as consistent
as they come. He can rush the passer, he can
stop the run, he can even dropping the coverage. If
you want Keevon Thibodeau, well maybe the sack numbers haven't
blown you away as much as you would like. He's
been a good player on the edge. He stops to
run well, and he has gotten after the quarterback over
the course of the early part of his career to
the point where the Giants did pick up this fifth

(38:15):
year option. So I just think and this is again
the first time we have been able to say this
about the Giants edge class since you've gone back to
the days of you know, Osu Minura and Jason Pierre
Paul and Justin Tuck where they have the best edge
group in the NFC East, and I think they pretty
clearly do at number two. I got the Dallas Cowboys

(38:35):
just because Michael Parsons is Michael Parsons and he's awesome.
He's a top five pass rusher in the league. I'm
sure they'll figure out a way to give him his
forty million dollar contract extension a couple weeks before the
year because as the Cowboys operate and look behind them,
Dante Fowler is a solid pro like he gets seven
eight sacks every year. He knows how to get after

(38:56):
the quarterback Peyton Turner was a high draft pick. Sam
Williams was a second round pick in twenty twenty two
coming off of an injury. Marshawn Neeland was a second
round pick last year. I love Donovan Azarak, who is
a rookie. So I think their depth at edge I
think is really really strong with Dallas, so I have
them coming in at number two. Then I have Philadelphia
coming in at number three. But much like the defensive

(39:16):
tackle spot, this is not the waves of you know,
pass rushers that we've seen from the Eagles in years past,
right where you have guys and guys and more guys.
They just traded Bryce Huff, So you're looking at Nolan
Smith and Jaloks Hunt as your two outside linebackers that
rushed the passer Azizo jalari As as depth there which

(39:38):
I liked as a signing, Josh Uce those are two
really smaller speed rushers that they have there. But I
like these guys as the third best group in the division.
And then look, Washington was the easy last place one
for me, and this is where I think they have
their weakness. You know, they trade a Montest sweat away
Chase Young, They allowed to walk in. Did they trade
Chase Young? Did he walk in for agency? I believe
you walked. Yeah. I don't think they worked out of

(39:59):
trade from the same year they traded Sweat. I don't
remember either way. He's on the team anymore. Thorn's Armstrong
is a solid staughter, He's fine. But Cleveland, Ferrell, Dietrich
Wise like, these guys don't move the needle for me.
So they are an easy you know, fourth place in
the division for me. But I have so again Giants one,

(40:20):
Dallas two, Philly three, Washington for they did trade Chase Yeng.

Speaker 4 (40:24):
They did trade Chase for a third round pick that
turned into Luke McCaffrey.

Speaker 2 (40:29):
So there you go. I have the same rankings one
through four. I have the same.

Speaker 4 (40:35):
In terms of the Giants and number one. First of all,
I agree it's nice to say that we have the
number one edge group in the division. I think everything
you said about Brian Burns spot on. I mean, I
know there are people out there that would have loved
to see his sack number be a little bit higher
last year, of course, but I just think he was

(40:59):
all around, very very good last year, all around, and
the Giants weren't.

Speaker 2 (41:04):
Really playing with any leads. So it's not like there
were situations or anything. Just pin their ears back and
get after the quarterback. They were playing from behind, teams
were running the ball on them most plays, so Burns
and the whole pass rush didn't get too much of
an opportunity to really, you know, just get after the quarterback.
Hopefully that will change this year.

Speaker 4 (41:23):
So and then real quick on Cavon, I don't think
people realize how Cavon season actually went last year because
they a lot of people will just look at his
sack numbers and say, well, he went from eleven and
a half in twenty twenty three to was it four
and a half last year five and a half, which
obviously you never want to see that number go down

(41:45):
by more than half. But if you look at his
like some of the underlying metrics of his pass rushing
last year, you will see that he was still getting
after the quarterback.

Speaker 2 (41:55):
Last year.

Speaker 4 (41:56):
He had more quarterback hits playing five fewer games than
he did in twenty twenty three. You heard me right,
more quarterback hits in last year in twelve games than
he did in seventeen games in twenty twenty three, and
in five fewer games last year he had I believe
it was five fewer total pressures.

Speaker 2 (42:16):
Than the year before when he had eleven and a
half sacks.

Speaker 4 (42:18):
So I think with another year of Brian Burns here,
with Abdul Carter now in the mix as well, I
think Kavon's numbers are gonna make a jump this year.
And I'm not the only one that thinks that, because
Paul and I talked about this yesterday. I wrote about
it for Giants Now. This morning, Pro Football Focus put
out an article picking their most who they think will
be the most improved player at every position across the NFL,

(42:41):
and at edge rusher they chose Kaevon. They think he's
gonna take a big jump this year. So for me,
easy at number one. Cowboys Michael Parsons, I mean that
alone gets the number two.

Speaker 2 (42:53):
He don't really need to go into anything more about that.
He's phenomenal.

Speaker 4 (43:00):
Eagles definitely took a hit at ed rusher, as you mentioned,
I mean, losing Josh Sweat is big, and Brandon Graham
retired and Brandon Graham retired, Yeah, I mean, he obviously
wasn't quite the same ed rusher that he had been.

Speaker 2 (43:11):
You know, five plus years ago, gave you a twenty
good snap to every game he was.

Speaker 4 (43:15):
Yes, he was still getting after the quarterback when he
was on the field. And then I just would like
to say if for the Commanders, I do have them
at number four. I do really like Dorance Armstrong. He's
clearly their number one ed rusher. He's the best thing
they got there. I don't know if I necessarily would
want him to be my number one edge rusher. I

(43:36):
think with this way, if he was my number two
ed rusher, I would feel significantly better.

Speaker 2 (43:40):
And I think if he was on any other team
in the division, he would be their number two. So
I think he's better than the Eagles number two. I
think he's better than Dallas's number two, and I think
he'd being in the number two here. I don't know
what a duel Carter's going to be in his first year.
I don't know what Carter is going to be in
his first year. But given the production the last two
or three years, he's had more production than cave No,
that's fair.

Speaker 4 (44:01):
Yeah, that's close to a big fan of Dorrit's Armstra,
that is close. But yeah, Commanders were easily number four
in that category.

Speaker 2 (44:08):
For me. All right, let's go to allf Bowll linebacker.

Speaker 4 (44:11):
Okay, So for number one here, we're just talking about
how the Commanders were last to Dead Dresser. I have
them at number one me too, because, and I've spoken
about this before, I do not know how he does it.
I don't understand how Bobby Wagner continues to play at
the level that he does every single year, no matter

(44:31):
what team he's on, no matter what system he's in,
he just puts up all pro seasons every single year.
He's so smart and he's what thirty four now I
think thirty three, thirty four, thirty five still producing at
an all pro level.

Speaker 2 (44:45):
It baffles me. Major kudos to him. He's just phenomenal.

Speaker 4 (44:49):
And I was about to say Frankie Lubu was my
choice as a breakout player for the Commanders last year.
Sure enough, he was phenomenal last year as well. The
fact that they've did two of them at the linebacker position.
As a Giants fan and an employee, I don't like that,
I really don't, But I gotta give him props because

(45:10):
those two were phenomenal together last year and now they're
in year two together with Dan Quinn I think they're
going to be just as good, to be honest, coming
in at number two. I have the Eagles me too,
which I don't think I would have had this last
year at this meaning, but after the season that Zach
Bond had seemingly out of nowhere, they easily deserved the

(45:33):
number two spot. I mean again, he was an All Pro.
He was a top three linebacker in the NFL last year.
He was phenomenal. Props to Vic Fangio for it's kind
of spotting him because I think they signed him to
basically be a special teams player, and then Vic Fangio
once he got him, was like, wait a second, I

(45:53):
think we have something here, And sure enough, they certainly
did have something there, and he was rewarded for it
with a humongous contracts.

Speaker 2 (46:00):
He earned every penny.

Speaker 4 (46:03):
And then you have n Kobe Dean, who I think
we all knew when he dropped to them, was it
two three years ago in the draft and with the
third round we all knew, like, he's gonna be so
much better than this draft position.

Speaker 2 (46:18):
Now he has that injury issues a lot of like
the way a lot of people thought he would so yes,
but when he's out there, he's good, yep.

Speaker 4 (46:24):
And then they went out and drafted Ghat Campbell, who
also has his own injury concerns shoulder, but when he
is out there, he is a phenomenal linebacker. And if
he is healthy, if those three are healthy, it wouldn't
shock me if they pushed the Commanders for number one.

Speaker 2 (46:38):
In this category this upcoming season. Uh coming in at
number three.

Speaker 4 (46:43):
I have the Giants me too, I very I really
like the combination of Bobby Ocarake and Mike McFadden. I
think each year they get better playing with each other,
and I think they will both take a step this
year having another year of or having a full year
of an experience under their playing in Shane Bowen's defense.
And I liked some of the guys behind him even

(47:05):
I mean they're the young players, Darius Muissou, even Deontay Johnson.
I mean, I was very high on him last year,
hoping he would get a chance. He only played at
linebacker in the season finale.

Speaker 2 (47:17):
But looked pretty good in that game.

Speaker 4 (47:19):
And then they went out and signed some veterans who
probably will primarily be special teams players, but will likely
get snaps on at linebacker as well. With Chris Board
Dimitrius Flanagan Fowls. It was clear that improving, you know,
special teams slash linebacker depth again was a priority for
the Giants. So number three for them, they were number

(47:42):
three for me, and then coming in at number four,
this one.

Speaker 2 (47:45):
Was pretty easy. The Dallas Cowboys.

Speaker 4 (47:49):
I just I don't love any of the linebackers they
have there to be, to be quite honest, I mean
they have some solid players.

Speaker 2 (47:55):
I mean Overshow was really good, but he's going off
that terrible knee injuries exactly. I mean, Kenneth Murray, he's.

Speaker 4 (48:03):
Solid, he's okay. They just that, I'm with you, just
doesn't do it for me. And I don't think they
have that much depth either. So that was just easy
number four for me.

Speaker 2 (48:18):
Cowboys. No, I'm with you on that, all right. Let
me I have no notes. I agree with every one
of those rankings and everything you said. So I'm gonna
go to cornerback. Evan must at one thirty, so we
got to pick up the pace. Let's go to cornerback.
I had this ranked out very simply. The Eagles at one,
just because quinne On Mitchell and Cooper Dejeane turned out
to be so good last year because of of course
they did, because they're the Eagles, and that's what happens.

(48:41):
I think you worry a little bit about Khille Wing
Ringo on the other outside spot, but you do have
Dory Jackson. There was kind of a backstop for that
outside spot. But I have them at number one. I
do have the Giants at number two, and this was close.
I throw a thought about putting the Giants at one here,
but I questioned about the second cornerback spot, so I
held back on it a little bit. And there's a
lot of youth still with Phillips and ub and stuff
like that. So if the Giants coming into two, but

(49:02):
I do think they are right behind Philadelphia, and you
can easily make the argument for the Giants that they
should be one in this category. And then I went
back and forth. Actually you can see I will cross
out on my sheet here. I ended up going Washington
three in Dallas four. This was the am I more
concerned about Marshawn Lattimore's injuries or Trayvon Diggs's injuries. And
I decided Trayvon Diggs is not practicing right now, and

(49:23):
he actually hasn't acute knee injury, So I took that
a little bit more seriously than I did the Marshaon
Lttimore injury Censorsto I think is really good. I think
Deron Bland is really good for Dallas. And then the
Dallas third quarterback was a spot I was a little
concerned about too. Right now they have Kyrie Elam in
that spot, I mean, and then you know, if Shavon
Ravel could turn out to be a really good out

(49:46):
of the out of the gate, Dallas will leap Frob
Washington here. But rookie corners, I have trouble putting a
lot of faith in rookie corners, Matt, so I left
the Cowboys in fourth here and I have Washington at three.

Speaker 4 (49:56):
Yeah, I have the same exact ranking. Honestly, the same
exact thought process throughout it all. I also debated three
and four with Washington and Dallas.

Speaker 2 (50:05):
How close are you to put the Giants over the Eagles?

Speaker 4 (50:08):
I wanted to, but similar to what you said with
how good Dejine and Mitchell were as rookies, like, I
had to put them in them and Drew Phillips was
great as a rookie as well, So it was stupid
and that's safety for safety, and I.

Speaker 2 (50:22):
Think we both agree.

Speaker 4 (50:23):
We love the paulse and a Deebo signing, But again,
the reigning Super Bowl champions, and if they could play
that well as rookies, just imagine what year two they
could potentially look like.

Speaker 2 (50:35):
Don't depress me. The only one that was that that
was close to me. It was three and four with
the Commanders and Cowboys and same thing you you just said.
If Revel is fully healthy and can play like I
think he's capable of playing, I would then if I
knew that for a fact that that would happen, I

(50:55):
would have them above Washington. But that is still a
pretty big question mark.

Speaker 4 (50:59):
But both of those teams there are some question marks
injury wise with some of these players, especially with some
of the veterans. So I gave Washington the nod because
for the most part, when Latimore was playing last year,
I wouldn't say he looked like old Marshall Latimore, but
he was solid. Some of the Dallas secondary play I

(51:20):
don't know if I could quite say the same.

Speaker 2 (51:22):
H No, I totally get where you're coming from, all right,
I want you to go with your safety.

Speaker 4 (51:27):
Rankings Okay, I'll try to do this quick. Safety number
one the New York Giants, and this I had close
between the Giants and the Cowboys. But I just think
with Javon Holland was I think a great signing. He
was the top safety available or one of the top
safeties available in free agency and coming off a down year,
but the three years prior to that he was really

(51:48):
good in Miami and putting him with Tyler Neuban who's
now going into year two in the NFL and showed
it a lot as a rookie, was the iron man
of the defense prior to that injury that forced him
to miss the last month of the season. Paul and
I talked about this yesterday. He missed I think it
was two snaps in the first like twelve games of
the season. And as a rookie now he's gonna have
Javon Holland to play with. And I'm gonna keep continue

(52:11):
talking about this guy. Dane Belton is the number three
safety I love, and he is showing up this already
in spring. The guy just is a ball magnet. He
just always gets the ball in his hands somehow. So
Giants number one for me Cowboys are number two, and
I do think they have a talented safety duo between
Malie Hooker and Donovan Wilson. They don't have that third

(52:32):
guy like the Giants do in my opinion. And I
also just think Holland and Nuben I would put above
Hooker and Wilson despite the fact that those two were.

Speaker 2 (52:40):
More veteran than Nuban.

Speaker 4 (52:42):
But Nuban showed enough as a rookie to have me
feeling confident about that Eagle's number three. This is mainly
because of Reid blanket Ship. I think he's very solid.
I don't truly love you know, Sidney Brown. Yeah, he's fine,
He's okay, he.

Speaker 2 (52:57):
Barely played last year.

Speaker 4 (52:59):
I do like the draft pick they had Andrew mccouba
from Texas. Me too, I think he could be good,
but that is, you know, a rookie and a big
question mark. And then Washington was easily the number three
got our number four team here. I don't really I
don't think any of these safeties are that good on
Washington's roster, to be honest, yep, easily number four.

Speaker 2 (53:20):
I'm with you. I have the same ranking, same reasoning.
We're on the exact same Paige, all right, you have
the defenses. Here we go. We got I have sixteen
points for the Giants. You have seventeen. That leads the
way for both categories for all defensive points, which I
think is terrific. I have the Eagles coming in at

(53:40):
fifteen points. You have the Eagles coming into fourteen points.
Our defensive rankings were very similar, very poor. Both of
us are the Cowboys at nine, which is the fewest
amount of points, and then Washington with ten. So Giants, Eagles,
Dallas and Washington. All right.

Speaker 4 (53:56):
For that record, we did not go over this before,
not at all. This is the first time we're hearing
each other talk about these.

Speaker 2 (54:01):
In fact, Matt tried to come down here and talking
like no, no, don't n't say it for the air,
don't don't don't tell me, don't tell me. All right,
special teams here, So I did special teams. I have
Dallas with the best special teams, best field goal kicker,
best kick returner, Cabat, they Turpin, and that to me
is just easy. Pas there their top. I got the
Giants at number two. I feel good about Jamie Gillan,
Imre Smith. Marsett proved to be a very good, reliable returner.

(54:24):
They brought in a couple of really big special teamers
like Chris Board in the offseason to bolster their coverage games.
I have Washington at number three, and then I have
the Eagles coming in last at number four. Just because
they return guys in their kicking game doesn't get me
all that excited.

Speaker 4 (54:39):
Also have Cowboys at number one. I then put Washington
at number two.

Speaker 2 (54:44):
Okay, okay.

Speaker 4 (54:48):
Part of this is I went through those what was
the guy's name from sports illustrator They always put those
special teams rankings together.

Speaker 2 (54:55):
Goslin. Oh, okay, he retired, but someone else took over
for it. I don't know that, okay, And so I
will admit for this one because in my head, I'm like,
I can go buy the field goal kickers and like
some of the returners, but when you go to the
some of the real underlying metrics and special teams, I
decided to, you know, just get a little assistance. No

(55:15):
I did I think that was actually the smart thing
to do. I don't.

Speaker 4 (55:18):
So I have the Commanders at number two. Yea, this one,
I wasn't sure between the Eagles and Giants at three
and four. I wanted to put the Giants at three,
but I ended up going with Philly again, the reigning
Super Bowl champions, and it's not like the special teams
won them the Super Bowl. But as I said at
the start, if there was any real toss up, and

(55:38):
the Eagles were one of them and they had the
same guys returning, I had to give them the benefit
of the doubt and the Giants at number four, partly
because of you know, Graham Gano. Obviously, field goal kicker
is a big part in this, and Graham Gano has
had injury issues the last couple of years. And I
do think Jamie Gillen looked a lot better last year
than you know, a lot of people are giving him

(56:00):
for and I me or Smith Marsette is the returner
was obviously a phenomenal pickup. But I need to see
the Giant Special Teams unit do it another year and
do it a little more consistently for me to raise
them from number four.

Speaker 2 (56:16):
Fair enough, all right, let's go to the coaching staffs.
This is a little bit tougher obviously, because you go down.
I still have the Eagles at the top here. Super
Bowl winning coach Nick Sirianni. He's gotten to a couple
of them, and then you know, just having Vic Fangio
is their defensive coordinator, which I think, you know, he's
proving to be the best defensive coordinator in the division.

(56:36):
To be quite honest with you, I mean, I don't
think anyone else is really you know, has the track
record that he does in terms of coaching defense. I
realize they have a new offensive coordinator in Philadelphia, so
that's gonna you know, who knows what that's gonna look
like and how that's gonna go. I do have Washington
at number two. You know, Dan Quinn has a good
history of going to being a coach. I can get
you to a super Bowl. Cliff Kingsbury showed he's a

(56:57):
really really good offensive coordinator last year. So them coming
in at number two, and then I have the Giants
coming in at number three. I think Brian Dable runs a
really good offense. But we still know who the play
caller is, right, So when that's a question mark, it's
hard for me to really put your higher up when
you still figure out who your play caller is. Shane
Bowen just on his second year on defense, So with
the Giants. So I have the Giants at three, and

(57:18):
then the Cowboys are just a huge unknown. So you
just have you know, Schottenheimer can that being a phenomenal
head coach. I have no idea. They have a you know,
Mightyberflus I think is a good defensive coordinator. He's done it.
He's been good at that spot. Offensively. I mean, they've
bringing some guy from the Cardinals, and Schottenheimer has ever
been a great play caller in my opinion, he's calling
the play this year. So I have the Cowboys coming

(57:39):
in at the bottom of number four.

Speaker 4 (57:40):
Yeah, I have the same rankings. I mean, you're coming
off a Super Bowl championship, two straight Super Bowl trips.
I don't see how you could not put Sirianni in
number one, despite the fact that I don't like him, but.

Speaker 2 (57:51):
I well, yeah, you don't have to like him, but
he just has to be good at his job.

Speaker 4 (57:56):
Clearly showed last year, which he was on the hot
seat for some reason going into last year, which didn't
make a lot of sense to me considering they just
made the Super Bowl, but then they went and won it,
so they were number one. Two Commanders Dan Quinn took
a young Commander's team that no one had any expectations
for all the way to the NFC Championship, and this
was his first year with Jayden Daniels. He obviously had

(58:20):
a lot of success with the Seahawks, granted that was
years ago at this point, but showed enough in that
first year and a lot as you said, Cliff Kingsbury
as well, an offensive coordinator, could have potentially gotten the
head coaching job, but took himself out of the running
in order to stay with Washington, stay with Jade and Daniels.

Speaker 2 (58:38):
Again, they got number two for me. Giants aid number three.

Speaker 4 (58:42):
This is year four for this coaching staff, or you know,
for Brian Dable. There are obviously have been some changes
made to the staff over the years, but I had
to give them the nod because the Dallas Cowboys have
a new head coach at number four, someone that's never
done it before. They have a relatively you know, I
don't want to say experience, because they all have NFL experience,

(59:03):
but it's not like they have big name coaches at
other you know, below the head coach that have had
a lot of success at their respective previous positions. It
was just easily they were a number four for me,
which then just kind of left the Giants at number three.

Speaker 2 (59:18):
All right, I have our total numbers now if I
HOPEFU I did this math right, Pierce, and you can
double check me, make sure I did my quick math
correct here, So both of us had the Eagles at
exactly forty points, so even and blowing away the competition here.
So these should all add up, Pearson to one hundred
and twenty. These there's ten points in twelve categories, so
this should both should addp to one twenty. You can

(59:39):
check it that way. I have, believe it or not,
the New York Giants at number two at twenty nine points.
You have the Commanders at number two at twenty eight points.
I have the Commander's at number three at twenty seven points,
so literally one point away. You have the Giants just
three points behind me, and all those came on the
offensive side of the ball, by the way, I've had
the Giants at twenty nine. Second, you have the Giants

(01:00:00):
third at twenty six, tied with Dallas Cowboys at twenty six,
and I have the Cowboys bringing up the rear here
with twenty four points, so much tighter. But again you
look at and the important thing to look at here
is the premium position stuff. And you look at the
positions that are most important, and you say, well, the
Cowboys are the fewest points. Well, they're good at quarterback,

(01:00:21):
they're good at wide receiver, they're good at corner, they're
good at edge. Right, those are the spots that are
their premium positions. We'll see about the offensive line with them.
That was a big hit on their numbers this year.
But while the Giants are where they are in terms
of points, the most important position on the field is quarterback.
So if they can that's why that's such a key

(01:00:41):
this year. Right, can you get higher level play out
of the quarterback position? There seems to be enough talent
at these other spots that if you get good enough
play at quarterback. Matt Coaching is very good. Specials Graham
gonna if he's healthy, you know what he's gonna give you.
The Giants can be competitivist in this division and if
they get what they need out of that quarterback position.

Speaker 4 (01:01:03):
Yeah, I mean, I think we both agree that. You
know the strength of this Giants team obviously, look at
these rankings, is their defense.

Speaker 2 (01:01:10):
Yes, just for the record we had. VI had seventeen
points to the Giants defense, six on offense. I had
sixteen on defense, eight on offense. So obviously a big
dichotomy there. Yeah, the defense is what's going to carry
this team.

Speaker 4 (01:01:22):
I mean, I don't think I'm going out on a
limb saying that we all know it. The defense could be. Honestly,
they have the talent on paper to be a top
ten defense in the NFL. They need to put it
all together by no means just by having the talent,
I'm by saying they are going to be a top
ten defense, but they have the potential to be a
very strong unit. The offense, it is just obviously a

(01:01:46):
much bigger question mark you mentioned. It starts with the
quarterback position. It is the most important position in football.
The Giants quarterback position has clearly gotten better than last year,
clearly gotten better than what has been for what called
it sixty five, six, seven years. However, they still need
to prove it. They still need to show it. Russell,

(01:02:06):
whether it's Russell Wilson, Jamis Winston Jackson, Dartify eventually gets.

Speaker 2 (01:02:10):
That in there. Even Tommy DeVito, whoever it is out there,
I put it this way, the other three teams would
expect their quarterbacks to play at a Pro Bowl level
and make Pro Bowls. The Giants are hoping they get
somebody to get to that level.

Speaker 4 (01:02:22):
Yes, And I just want to very quickly say, because
I know, ok is that while you know I have
the Giants tied with the Cowboys and very close.

Speaker 2 (01:02:32):
To the Commanders, you have the Giants at number two. Like,
we understand the Giants.

Speaker 4 (01:02:36):
Are coming off a three and fourteen season, and we
understand that, Like I don't want our viewers to think
like we're saying, oh, the Giants are the second best
team in the division.

Speaker 2 (01:02:46):
Now, I am for the record, I am not predicting
the Giants to come in second place in the NFC.
These are just what the rankings told you in terms
of the math.

Speaker 4 (01:02:53):
And just because you know, the Giants defense could be dominant,
but if the offense doesn't take a big step, it's
not matter that much. Bingo and the Giants are still
if that happens, could still easily end up in fourth
place in the division despite having what could be the
best defense of these four.

Speaker 2 (01:03:09):
So I just wanted to because it's not just about
if you just look at the rankings, you might be like,
what the heck are these guys talking about your building? Clarify,
you're building a winning team, right. I think what this
shows is that they have brought in talented players, but
had they gotten the right mix and combination at the
right positions to maximize it all to come together. And again,

(01:03:31):
it's hard to do. There's only certain players available each
year in the drafts, there's only certain players available, and
free agency you get the best players you can based
on who's available, and I think the Giants have done
a pretty good job of that. There's still obviously a
lot of work to do, and I get I'll just
go back to the elite positions, right, and these are
the positions that help you win and lose football games.
Quarterback the Giants were last. Wide receiver the Giants were

(01:03:51):
last if Andrew Thomas's health problems. At offensive tackle, Giants
are probably close to the bottom. Right edge great edge,
great the important position. On defense, corners of Giants were second.
But again we like the defensive situation or the tackles.
They're in a good spot. But on offense, those three

(01:04:12):
premium spots where you need to be good for your
offense to be good. We see some deficiencies there so
or potential deficiencies that you hope the team that can
overcome over the course of the year. So that's why
all these position groups are not rated equally. This is
not weighted per importance of the position group. It's just

(01:04:33):
by position group. I'm not a mathematician, folks. I'm not
gonna start weighting categories here, okay, but that's kind of
where we're stating.

Speaker 4 (01:04:39):
Yeah, I mean, look, I had the giants of the
five offense positions last and four and then.

Speaker 2 (01:04:44):
Third in the fifth, and that was in running back
at running back exactly.

Speaker 4 (01:04:48):
Now, that doesn't mean I'm saying that I think the
offense is going to struggle mightily this year. I think
a lot of those positions are relying on either health
or young guys to take steps. Now I do think
some of those you guys are going to take steps.
As I said, Theo Johnson could easily take a step
where next year we're talking about him as the number
one or number two tight end in the division easily.

(01:05:09):
Same with Tyrone Tracy. Maybe not number one over Saquon,
but you know, solidified a number two. Maybe Darius Slayton
or Wandel Robinson with better quarterback play finally takes that
big step that we've been waiting for and joining Malik
rises above one of those other wide receiver do is
that might be a little tough.

Speaker 2 (01:05:29):
Or Jalen Hight who knows? Or Jalen Hight, Yeah, one
hundred percent. Or again, if the offensive line stays healthy,
JMS takes a step, the offensive line is gonna take
a step, a big jump. So just with these rankings,
just take everything with I guess a little bit of
a grain of salt. I'm with you. So that tac
good stuff. That big week show. Yeah, absolutely always fun.
Lance and Paul will have their rankings on Friday, Pierce

(01:05:50):
and I can't wait to see how different there are,
because you know Lance is always captain negative on everything
and Paul's always captain positive. You got the two like
somewhat lodge somewhat somewhat logical people on the show today
and curious see how create their rankings are a matter
on next we'll take a look at them. Then we'll
have some fun with them on the air here. So tomorrow,
remember there's media after Ota, so the show is being
pushed back to one thirty correct. Big media day tomorrow,

(01:06:12):
we're hearing from the coordinators in the morning and then
players and Brandon Brown after practice. There you go, so
that'll be that'll be good. Make sure you go check
that out, folks, and they get bbk's a little bit later,
started one thirty instead of twelve thirty right here, so
I have that correct, this one thirty right all right.
Thanks for joining us on Big kickle I, presented by
Cadillac from our podcast studio, brought to you by Hackensack

(01:06:34):
and Marital Health. Keep getting better for Matt, I'm Schmelk.
Those are NFC East rankings for the year. We'll see tomorrow.