Big Blue Kickoff Live 6/9 | 2025 Giants X-Factors

John Schmeelk and Paul Dottino discuss which Giants players could be x-factors in the 2025 season, talk about OTAs, and take calls from fans.

:00 - OTA chat

10:30 - X-factors

32:49 - Calls

36:38 - The season ahead

49:50 - Giants history

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Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:04):
It's time for a Big Blue Kickoff line.

Speaker 2 (00:06):
Nobody can ever tell you that you couldn't do it
because you're.

Speaker 1 (00:09):
On giants dot com.

Speaker 2 (00:11):
Do you know what I saw? New York Giant cry
and the Giants Mobile one tuck down.

Speaker 1 (00:18):
We all were tampering part of the Giants podcast network
that's going on. Hello, everybody, welcome to the Big Blue
Kickoff live on this Monday afternoon. It's all brought to
you by Cadillac, the official luxury vehicle of the Giants.
I am John Schmelke. He is Paul Latino, coming to
you live from our podcast studio, presented by Hackensack Murdy

(00:40):
in health, Keep getting better, mister Tatino. How was your weekend?

Speaker 2 (00:44):
Not too bad, John, although the rain today kind of
puts a little damper on Everything's right?

Speaker 1 (00:49):
Yeah, good use of rain and dampening. That was on purpose,
but well done. So this is the last week of OTAs.
They are for this week today, Tomorrow, Thursday and Friday.
Wednesdaysy off day, and then tomorrow they'll have just down
to too mini camp practices now at least to officially
announced three, but the last one was always a fake
mini camp practice. Now they've just announced they're gonna do too,

(01:11):
and that's what they're gonna do. So that's what's going
on next week, and then we are kind of in
the clear until the third or fourth week of July.
We don't quite know when training camp is gonna start yet.
We're thinking sometime around July twenty third, somewhere in that
area is kind of what we're thinking. So that's where

(01:31):
we're at, folks. Today. We're gonna have a fun show.
We are going to do our X factors for the
Giant season. Now, this is not who the Giants' best
players are. This is not who the Giants can at
least afford to lose. We will have that on a
show a little bit later on this off season. You know,
X factors, And I actually texted Paul the definition of

(01:51):
an X charactor, so we be in the same page,
so I might as well. I might as well read
that now, just so everyone's on the same page.

Speaker 2 (01:58):
Right.

Speaker 1 (01:59):
So X factor is defined as and this was thank
you Google, a variable in a given situation that could
have the most significant impact on the outcome. Yes, So
the keyword there is variable. So if something's kind of certain,
then like oh, dexter Lawrence is the X factor. Well,
we know Dexter Lawrence is gonna be great, so he

(02:19):
would not qualify as an X factor. No, But guys
that maybe we have some questions about could qualify as
a potential X factor this year. So we'll get to
that in a second, real quick. We want to talk
about what happened at OTA's today before we get to
those X factors. I say this with fairly high level
of confidence, Paul, that this is the best the offense
has looked so far in the spring h and the

(02:42):
fact that it was happening in tight quarters, in the
tight red zone where sometimes the offense can struggle to
get things going because you don't have a full field
to work with. I thought it was pretty impressive. Started
in seven on seven Russell Wilson four straight touchdown passes
to start the day. Jamis Winson during one of the
team periods, had three straight touchdown throws at one point,
Jackson Dart had a treo off touchdown throws. So a

(03:05):
lot of good play from the different quarterbacks of good throws,
and you can start to see the timing of these
quarterbacks with the wide receivers start to click and the
pass that it did for me was that Jamis Winston
pass he at Montreal Washington on a little out route
right near the sideline. He threw the pass before Washington
came out of his break, put it right on the
sideline so Washington could drag his back foot and away

(03:26):
from the defender. And it was the type of precision
that I don't think you see early in spring because
the quarterbacks aren't used to the offense and I used
to the wide receivers yet. But I really thought you
saw it start to click today in the red zone
with the offense.

Speaker 2 (03:40):
Yeah, John, I would say this probably a good portion
of the touchdown passes, and it has to be when
you're in close quarters. And by the way, this was
inside the field house.

Speaker 1 (03:49):
Yes, because the very clear, good point.

Speaker 2 (03:53):
I'd say a good portion, and I didn't count them up.
It was probably at least half of them were tight
rope throws. We're talking about darts, laser beams, things that
had to have zip on them. Okay, they weren't just
like you know, dumping them in there. There were there
were a few, you know, that were in the corner
that they had loop around. Okay, fine, I'm talking about

(04:14):
a lot of throws that were just zipped right to
where they had to be. Those throws, you don't have
margin for error on those throws. They're either right there
or they're not. It's a completion or it's not. You've
got to put those kinds of passes right on the money.
And the quarterbacks did a really good job with it today.

Speaker 1 (04:34):
Yeah, I thought they did too. I do a Carter
gone into the backfield a couple times what could have
been sacks. Brian Burns gone to the backfield for a
couple of times for what could have been sacks. Cordell
Flott had an interception on the the left side of
the field where he kind of dropped back into zone
and got his hands up to pick off a ball
belting at a pick, But I got called back because
of a penalty, right, so that does not count. And look,

(04:57):
I thought I was just happy to see the offense
looked like they were starting to pick up some timing
with the wide receivers and the quarterbacks in those tight
red zone areas.

Speaker 2 (05:05):
No question, Theo Johnson made a couple of nice grabs
yep in traffic.

Speaker 1 (05:10):
Three touchdown catches for him by Dasn't had one, Robinson
had one, Gray had a couple, Tracy had one, and
then three of the undrafted rookie free agents one.

Speaker 2 (05:21):
So I mentioned Johnson in particular.

Speaker 1 (05:24):
Though you know joh Humphrey yet too.

Speaker 2 (05:25):
Sorry, Yes, yes, that's sorry. I mentioned Johnson in particular
because we've had people talk about how Russell Wilson throughout
his career has never been a guy who really looks
for the tight end a whole lot.

Speaker 1 (05:37):
Yead also never really had any great tight ends either,
which is part of it.

Speaker 2 (05:40):
Well, and it's easy to say that because that's a
chicken in the egg thing. If the quarterback doesn't feed
them a lot in clutch situations, well we're not going
to think of them as being better players.

Speaker 1 (05:48):
They also never went anywhere else and became really good.

Speaker 2 (05:51):
That's also accurate. But so it's very intriguing to me
to see that the tight ends do so well with
Wilson at the controls and.

Speaker 1 (06:03):
He has two of those throws to Johnson.

Speaker 2 (06:05):
Yes, and that's my point. He's not been shy about
looking for theo Johnson.

Speaker 1 (06:09):
And it makes sense though, too, right, Johnson's six to six.
Oh yeah, Wilson is going to probably try to target
bigger wide receiver, especially over the middle, it's easier for
him to see those guys as they go out to
run their route.

Speaker 2 (06:20):
So I'm with you.

Speaker 1 (06:21):
I thought it was good to see, but I thought
they also spread the ball around today. It was a
good one guy so and then to end practice after
the first four four periods were in tight red zone
mostly ten yards an end, though they had a couple
of penalties which pushed them outside of that, they ran
some situational stuff where first of all, Jackson are practiced
dealing the ball down once. I don't know if they

(06:42):
he might not have ever done that under center because
of the shotgunning college. Good question, so I don't think
it was a surprise that the Dart was the one
that ran the fake knee of the rand the kneel down,
so that was interesting. And then they ended practice. The
last team period was the offense trying to get out
of the shadow of their ed zone. You had a

(07:03):
potential sack from Brian Burns on one play which might
have been a safety. But two plays were fun during
that period. One by the way, Jameis Winston runs really
good play action like he exaggerates the fake handoff tucks in,
and I think his mechanics on play action is really
really strong. But he play action boots it and there
is nobody on the left side of the field, and

(07:24):
he took off like a race car. He looked like
Tom Cruise of a Mission Impossible movie. The arms were
the lagers. He was running so hard, and the entire
offense on the sideline. He was running towards the offense
on the sideline. They were into it. They thought, oh yeah, great.

(07:44):
Everyone was excited, and then everyone got even more excited.
On the final play, a really tough catch from Dalon
Combre on a nice pass by Tommy the Vido down
the right sideline. I'm not sure I would have went
for a touchdown. I think he would have got tracked
down before he got there. But a really tough catch
in and a good play to end practice. A little
offense goes charging down the field. They celevel the comrade
and the end zone. It was a lot of fun.

Speaker 2 (08:05):
It's about a forty yard bomb. He jumped over fortune
to go up and get it, which was just a
great athletic play. And you're right, John, the entire team
was in celebration. I suspect I don't know this. We haven't.
We even talked to coach. I suspect it looked like
they might have ended practice a few minutes early. I

(08:26):
wonder if Dabel told him, if you hit this, I'll
call an into practice.

Speaker 1 (08:31):
Now. We probably have not talked about Dalen Com very much,
so just so fans understand him. He is one of
the more quite frankly unique players that I've ever seen
a team carry into their roster, even as an undrafted
rookie free agent. So he's a receiver, yes, and has

(08:54):
ten career college catches, Yeah, for one hundred and twenty
three yards. I know he's here because he's a special
teams as we've seen him do a lot of different
things on special teams. I don't think I'm allowed doing
that to tell specific.

Speaker 2 (09:12):
Right, I don't think you'd go any further than that.

Speaker 1 (09:14):
Let's just say he's been in a lot of different spots.
I will leave it at that. And if you could
ever get anything out of him as a wide receiver,
then I think you feel pretty good about it. But
I just thought it was for fans that weren't familiar
with him as a player. He went to Louisiana by
the way he was a raging Cajun. So just something
to note at the end of practice there.

Speaker 2 (09:32):
Yeah, strictly, strictly based on college resume, he would have
the thinnest resume of anybody in camp.

Speaker 1 (09:39):
Yeah, in terms of like he might Paul, in terms
of production, I have never seen the Giants have a
wide receiver in camp that had that little college I
know it's you know, but again, he's not here to
be a receiver. He's here to be a special teams player.
But I just thought it was interesting to bring up
for fans that maybe might not be familiar with him. Okay,
so now let's get to our X factors, Paul. So
we're gonna each pick three. Were do this draft style

(10:01):
where we're gonna go back and forth so you don't
copy each other. Would you like to go first? We'd
like me to go first.

Speaker 2 (10:05):
It doesn't matter. I'll flip a coin if you want.
I don't care.

Speaker 1 (10:09):
Let me think the last time we did this, did you?

Speaker 2 (10:12):
Yeah?

Speaker 1 (10:12):
Why we do you have a coin?

Speaker 2 (10:14):
Have a coin? I do not have a coin, but
I have my cell phone. I haven't I'll flip that.

Speaker 1 (10:18):
No, I'm not going There are coin flipping apps are
there really? Yes, you're not aware of this.

Speaker 2 (10:23):
I was not aware. I don't gamble, not that you do.
You don't gamble on coin flips.

Speaker 1 (10:29):
What do you walk into a casino and you got
some guy at a table flip it a quarter? Is
that what you think is happening to get casino?

Speaker 2 (10:36):
You still gamble on the Super Bowl coin flip every year?

Speaker 1 (10:39):
Okay, well, yeah, that they do. I thought you meant
like you go to like you go like the you know,
some casino and like they have no diet, the table
head the tails.

Speaker 2 (10:48):
There's no there's no tails. There's no table for that. Well,
you know why because the odds are too good in
the public's favor, because it's really fifty to fifty. The
casino would never do.

Speaker 1 (10:58):
That, or they would never do that unless they have
yeah the level they need a yeah, and that would
be very illegal and they would get a lot of trouble.

Speaker 2 (11:05):
Exactly on head your tails, I'll take tails.

Speaker 1 (11:10):
Flipping and in his head. So I get to go first, Okay,
go ahead, all right, I'm gonna go with Deontay Banks. Okay, uh,
he's a Giants first Hunt pick from two years ago.
We know the consistency hasn't been where you want to
be his first two years. His second year, I don't think,
not as good as his first year. Can he be
that impact player the Giants need him to be in
Shane Bowen's defense, defense in a lot of in a

(11:35):
lot of ways, can be guided by the weak link philosophy. Right,
you could have nine super players on defense, but if
you have two guys that other teams can just target relentlessly,
ain't gonna help you. So I think we feel all
good about Paulson Adebo Right, Drewshillips only his second year,
but I think we saw enough of his first year,

(11:57):
especially he ran the line of scrimmage, that he's gonna
be a pretty good play. Can the Giants get good
enough play out of that second cornerback spot? And look,
if it's not the Ante Banks, then you can put
Cordell Flatt in this mix. If you want to put
Banks or Flat here, that's fine. I'm gonna focus on
Banks because he was the first round pick and he
is the most physical talent.

Speaker 2 (12:14):
Right, and he's the starter.

Speaker 1 (12:16):
Correct, he's been the start of the last two years, right,
So can Banks be a guy? Look, you don't need
him to be prime Dureu reeves where he's following around
the other team's best wide receiver and shutting him down
all over the field. Can he stay on his side
of the field, cover the guy that's lined up across
from him, and not get beat a lot? You guys

(12:38):
have to be great, be a league average starting. If
he is like the twenty fifth best cornerback in the
league list this year, I'll take that. Just don't be
a liability, be a good starter. Don't commit defensive passing,
the fears penalties, don't get beat deep, be where you're
supposed to be, don't make mental mistakes. And look, I
still think he has the ability to develop into a

(13:01):
shutdown level corner, but I'm not asking that from him
this year. Be a good starter, That's all I'm looking
for for this year. And if he does, that's gonna
help this Giants defense and awful lot. If he doesn't,
it can become a real problem for this defense, which
is why he's my number one X factor.

Speaker 2 (13:17):
Okay, And it makes a little aful lot of sense.

Speaker 1 (13:19):
Is he on your list?

Speaker 2 (13:21):
I did not put him.

Speaker 1 (13:22):
Oh, I like it good different things. I like that
good good.

Speaker 2 (13:24):
Dat Because honestly, like when you said earlier to start
this thing, you know, things that are for certain would
not qualify. Well, there's not much for certain on this team,
so you could really go in about twenty five different directions.
I agree with you.

Speaker 1 (13:39):
Okay, So well though, you can comment on Banks and
then you can give you a number one.

Speaker 2 (13:43):
Well, first of all, as far as Banks is concerned,
there's no question. If he's not consistently good enough, consistently
functional to where he's not an achilles seal, the Giants
will sign up for that right now.

Speaker 1 (13:59):
Like they were games last year where they had to
take him off the field.

Speaker 2 (14:03):
He was so up and down.

Speaker 1 (14:04):
He can't have that.

Speaker 2 (14:05):
No, No, he was so up and down. They couldn't
count on him. They couldn't trust him, you know.

Speaker 1 (14:10):
At times came back, he cut the hair a little
bit more buttoned up.

Speaker 2 (14:15):
I don't know, but seemed very pleased with him.

Speaker 1 (14:20):
Yes, he needs wait, he's come in. He've been very serious.

Speaker 2 (14:23):
So because of the injury factor, and we have seen
that every time Andrew Thomas has hurt, and he consistently
seems to be getting hurt, the offensive line tends to
slide right downhill like a snowball.

Speaker 1 (14:37):
I thought, I thought, this is almost like too easy.
But I can't argue with your logic on it.

Speaker 2 (14:41):
I can't. I can't.

Speaker 1 (14:42):
No, I can't argue with the log.

Speaker 2 (14:43):
The avalanche of this offensive line seems to start every
single time Andrew Thomas goes to the trainer's room. So
as much as I would say, under normal circumstances, if
he had shown standard durability, I would not allow Andrew
Thomas to be on the list. I would say, I
can't pick him.

Speaker 1 (15:03):
That's I'm saving Andrew Thomas for my guys. You can't
afford to lose show.

Speaker 2 (15:08):
That's fine, Yeah, but because injuries and his lack of
availability has kind of become a norm for him, and
every time it happens, the mud slides downhill. The impact
of his getting hurt absolutely devastates this team. It's happened

(15:29):
time and time again. So my X factor is, can
Andrew Thomas stay healthy, be on the field for at
least sixteen games or at least fifteen I mean at
the bare minimum fifteen to give this offensive line a
chance to actually produce. I'll be honest with you. If
you told me thirteen right now, I'd sign up. Well,
I would want more than that. But I understand how

(15:50):
many games he's played the last twoyear I know, and
that's and that's he.

Speaker 1 (15:53):
Hasn't gotten to ten, has it.

Speaker 2 (15:54):
That's why that's why he's on my list right now.
I'm with you. I can't argue with you.

Speaker 1 (15:59):
They do not have I mean, look, I think Joe
Shane was pretty clear he feels good about John Hudson
as a guy that can step James. James Hutson s
John Hutson, James Hutson, James as a guy that can
step in and do a nice job as your swing tackle.
But he ain't Andrew Thomas. You don't want to have
to move a little when are over, which I don't
think they would. I think Hudson would just slide into
the left tackle spot. Yeah, I mean the consequences of

(16:24):
an injury like that, We've seen it before. Yeah, And
it's not just the snow ball rolling downhill, the snowball,
the gigantic snowball.

Speaker 2 (16:34):
Then hit your car. It takes out your mailbox. Oh,
it takes out the whole ski resort.

Speaker 1 (16:41):
And then to the bottom it's so big it just
avalanches everything and everything is destroyed.

Speaker 2 (16:46):
And so That's why I went there.

Speaker 1 (16:47):
I totally totally get that, all right, So I'm gonna
stick on the offensive line.

Speaker 2 (16:52):
Paul Sure, I'm gonna go with John Michael Schmidt's.

Speaker 1 (16:55):
I think especially for an undersized quarterback like Russell Wilson,
you cannot afford to have pressure up the middle. That
hurts smaller quarterbacks as much as anything else. Go look
at how the Saints build their teams with Drew Brees.
Their guard play was always fantastic.

Speaker 2 (17:13):
Yep, they had to.

Speaker 1 (17:15):
It was always very good. Whether it's Carl Knicks or
whoever else you're talking about it in there. Their guard
play was always great, and center would obviously be included
in Yes, so can John Michael Schmidtz put it all
together here and become the player the Giants thought they
were getting when they drafted him in the second round.
It's been two up and down. There's been some injury
concerns both years. This is a third year in the league.

Speaker 2 (17:37):
Now.

Speaker 1 (17:38):
Sometimes it takes two or three years for offensive line
and to figure things out. That's fine, but I want
to see more consistent, high level play from him in
twenty twenty five.

Speaker 2 (17:47):
Specifically, I want to see more power out of him, yep,
because there are too many times he's overmatch it.

Speaker 1 (17:52):
Don't get you know, he'll stay in front of a guy,
but he'll just get and then lose the battle. It's
like the sled where the defense pushes the sled. He's
the sled and he just gets slowly worked back into the.

Speaker 2 (18:05):
Wool or even pushed to the side correct and then
you get to be able to anchor better. Is really
what he comes down.

Speaker 1 (18:10):
And once he gets his hands on him, keep him strong,
don't let the guys detach from him when he gets
when when you get your hands in the run.

Speaker 2 (18:16):
He frustrates me somewhat, John, because I think from everything
we've heard and everything we can see, he doesn't look
lost out there. It looks like he knows what to do.

Speaker 1 (18:27):
No, I've been told by multiple just can't finish it.
He's extremely mentally sharp, like all the he's a lot
of checks.

Speaker 2 (18:32):
And all that stuff. Then physically he doesn't finish enough
of those plays.

Speaker 1 (18:37):
And look, we talked about him coming out that he
was a little he wasn't quite on the small Winderbomb
Bradbury smaller side, but he was on the smaller side.
And when I watched him in college and I said
this to a draft on that was the one thing
I worried about with him with some of the stuff.
So yeah, I don't you were You're on it too,
so that I'm not surprising guys. What do I always say, folks,

(19:00):
The players that make your team really good are guys
in their rookie contracts. That's why the two guys I
picked here were guys heading into their third seasons. Their
first and second round picks from that twenty twenty twenty
three draft. Last part of me, m h. If you
want to be good, you gotta get high level play
out of your first and second round picks.

Speaker 2 (19:23):
I'm going to the third round. Jalen Hyatt all right?
I like it.

Speaker 1 (19:26):
I like it.

Speaker 2 (19:29):
Jalen Hyatt is such an X factor for me because,
let's face it, he hasn't broken out at all. He
has been extremely quiet as a pro during his first
two seasons. We know what the Giants expected of him
when they took him. They expected for sure that he
would challenge for a starting job. By this point, he

(19:50):
has not come close to doing that. And then you
were hoping, hoping that perhaps not just challenge for a
starting job, but become a really exciting player in a
starting role. Neither one of those things has happened to
this point. He has basically been a very very quiet pro.

(20:11):
If he breaks out this year, and when I say
break out, I'm not even talking huge numbers here, John,
I'm talking if he's a rotation receiver, just a rotation receiver,
that's all. Doesn't even have to be a starter, doesn't
have to beat anybody out. Just be a rotation receiver
and catch I don't know, thirty five balls and average

(20:33):
fifteen yards a catch, and maybe get two or three
touchdowns in there. That's enough. That's enough to make him
impactful on this offense. He can do enough to raise
the level of this offense, to make it more dangerous,
to make it more explosive. Just be good enough to
command some respect from the other team's secondary so that

(20:57):
when you're on the field, they do have to be
concerned with you. That's all. That's all, And to this
point he's done nothing, nothing production wise that would command
respect of the other team's defense. If he steps on
the field in the first couple of weeks of the season.
Based on the tape he has shown in his first

(21:18):
two NFL seasons. Other teams are not going to respect
him very much, and he's not going to have much
of an impact on the field with or without the ball.
But if he can start making some plays, it changes
the entire dynamic of what guys have to pay attention
to on defense.

Speaker 1 (21:36):
Let me ask you this question, what does he have
to do or what needs to happen for him to
break into the top three in terms of snaps per
game at wide receiver.

Speaker 2 (21:51):
Wow, I don't know that he can do that. I
think right now, I agree with you. He's the fourth
and he's going to stay as the fourth unless somebody
gets dinged. Now that's the problem. See, let's just say,
for argument's sake, Jalen Hyatt doesn't break out this season.

(22:12):
Is the Giants passing game still good enough to be effective?
Can they still move the ball well enough through the
air that they can command respect well if Robinson, Slayton
and Neighbors all stay healthy, Yeah, they can. And they
also have the tight ends and the running backs they
can throw too. They can survive without Jalen Hyatt being

(22:36):
a weapon. But it would be so much more better
for them the amount of teeth that they can put
into a defense, you know, and put some bite into
this attack. Would be so much better if Hyatt as
that fourth guy could give them some exciting, big play

(22:59):
production would just make a lot of difference.

Speaker 1 (23:01):
Nope, I agree with you, Paul. I don't think there's
a I don't think there's any way to disagree with that,
To be honest with you, I guess the only question
with that is that, to your point, if he doesn't,
if the other guys are good enough, is it going
to matter that much if.

Speaker 2 (23:16):
They all stay healthy, Probably not a ton. Not a ton. Yeah,
I'm with you, but there's a much higher upside if
he does.

Speaker 3 (23:24):
All.

Speaker 1 (23:24):
Right, now I have a debate here, I have I
didn't have either one of those in my list, So
maybe maybe go longer than three deep.

Speaker 2 (23:31):
Now, now we can probably each pick twenty shy, I.

Speaker 1 (23:34):
Take that back. Andrew Thomas was number six for me. Okay,
guys that way.

Speaker 2 (23:37):
I didn't put him in order. I just wrote down guys.

Speaker 1 (23:39):
I know, well, since we're doing it in terms of listening,
I did it in the order I was gonna list
him O. I wanted to make sure that's what I said.
So do I want to get creative here or do
I want to I guess I can combine them all, right,
I'm gonna go Bobby okaake Okay, Well, I think was
really good in his first year here, running all over
the place, and last year with a new defensive coordinator,
was not the same. He got hurt late in the year.

(24:01):
You need to come back and be healthy. He's been
out there. I think that I'm not worried about that
part of it. He talked to us about his back
feeling better, did not have to have surgery, says he's
doing better. Good, checks all those boxes, happy, happy, happy, good,
good good. But when you talk about this Giants defense,
you talk about two issues. One big plays getting beat
over the top. We mentioned that with the anti banks.
The other thing that Shane Bowen talked about the other

(24:24):
day was the run defense, specifically too many explosive runs
and limiting explosive runs. Has something to do with the
defensive line, but I think it has more to do
with the linebackers in safeties, because those are the guys
that turn a potential five yard run into a forty
yard run. Can at the second level, these guys get
these players down on the ground. So I thought about

(24:47):
doing you know, Shane Bowen as a defensive coordinator and
him okay, Faith, thank you figuring things out this year,
but sorry they I decided instead go with oh karak
here because I just think the middle linebacker, getting everyone
in the right spot, getting the gaps filled, being in

(25:08):
the right position, will go a long way to preventing
some of those really long runs that haunted this Giants
defense last year. The Giants need a consistent sideline, the
sideline playmaker on the second level of the defense. McFadden
is great in the box. Oh Kaake has more athleticism,
I think, to kind of get all over the place.

Speaker 2 (25:26):
So I'm gonna go with karak here.

Speaker 1 (25:28):
With a with a little taste of Shane Bowen because
his ability to run Bowen's defense and then being on
the same page I think comes together a little bit
in terms of trying to shut down those explosive run
plays that really hurt the Giants over the last couple
of years.

Speaker 2 (25:43):
Now, no question, very reasonable, Very reasonable. Now for my
third guy, if you'd like, I'll go defense. If we
want to split it up, you know, because well because
my other guy, who I probably out of my sixth
that I jotted down the other guy. Well, I'm kind
of leaning on here is THEO Johnson, to be honest
with you, because it would be three offensive players.

Speaker 1 (26:07):
Now if I go that way, well, I think most
of the questions are on the offense.

Speaker 2 (26:11):
I think that's fine. So my reason for THEO is this.
I think THEO Johnson if you would have pinned down
Mike Kafka and Brian Dabole today and ask them, and
of course they would not answer this, but if you
would have pinned them down with truth the arm and
say what do you need to get out of THEO

(26:31):
Johnson to make this a well rounded attack that can
threaten people enough to be respectable, I think they would say,
we need more production out of our tight end position.
And I'm talking about passing game production, not necessarily blocking. Yes,
you need blocking. You guys know how much I love

(26:51):
blocking tight ends, but they need especially in the way
the game is being played today, in the way that
tight ends are becoming this safety valve and Keith third
down contributors, they need THEO Johnson. And I'm not saying
he needs to be a sixty five catch guy, but
THEO Johnson has to catch at least forty passes this year, John,

(27:12):
he needs at least forty receptions. By forty, he's got
average about thirteen or fourteen yards a catch. Oooo. That's
a eye number, that's that. But that's what I want
out of him. To be truly the type of threat
that can command respect. That's what he's got to do.
I'm not I'm not looking for a guy who catches

(27:33):
forty balls and averages nine and a half yards of grab.
That's not gonna work for me.

Speaker 1 (27:38):
So you want him to be a seam guy.

Speaker 2 (27:40):
Yes, he needs to be able to, especially if Hyatt
doesn't take that step up. I need THEO Johnson then
to be that pseudo fourth target in the offense who
can make those plays get me first downs. You know,
because if Robinson's as shifty as we think he is,
and if Neighbors is as talented as we think he is,

(28:02):
and if Slayton is as much of a deep threat
as he as we think he is, well, that means THEO.
Johnson's going to have room to operate. John And if
he's got room to operate, nine and a half yards
of catch is not good enough. So that's what I
want out of THEO. Johnson and if they can get
that kind of production out of him, boy, that's a

(28:24):
really big X factor and it allows room for no
one else aka Jalen Hyatt to step up, because if
they can't get that kind of production out of the
tight end position in the passing game, then they're gonna
need another wide We see where to do it? All right,
I'm gonna give you my last one.

Speaker 1 (28:43):
This is a honorable mention, I guess, and then you
can give that you have a couple that you didn't
mention if you want to get to him real quick,
if you want me too, we can go through these quick.
I believe Roy robertson Harris down mm hmm. The Giants
have been kind of looking for that second defensive tackle
next to the Dexter Lawrence, But again this kind of
gets wrapped back into the whole run the thing. Look,
it's been a big fact in the last two years.

(29:04):
Can he give you enough consistent play if he ends
up being the guy next to des And I know
Andrea Patterson's very excited about coaching a man of that
size with that length yep. Can he give you that
consistent play next to Dexter Lawrence or even more importantly,
when you want to give Dexter Lawrence his fifteen snaps
off every game or ten stafs, twelve steps off every game,

(29:26):
whatever it is. Can him and Nacho hold it down together?

Speaker 2 (29:29):
Right?

Speaker 1 (29:29):
Can the guys keep that middle of the defense firm
enough against the run when Dexter Lawrence is off the field.
And I think where Robertson Harris will have a lot.

Speaker 2 (29:38):
To do with that.

Speaker 1 (29:39):
He's new, he's huge, he's tall, he's long, he has
all the things Andrea Patterson wants out of his defensive lineman.
Can he be that reliable guy in that middle of
the defense with decks or when dex isn't on the field.
And that's why he would be my honorable mention here.

Speaker 2 (29:54):
That's a certainly reasonable position to look at. I don't
think there's any doubt. Who do you have left on you? Unfortunately,
they have some defensive tackles, they have some numbers.

Speaker 1 (30:02):
That's and that's why I made that the last thing
on my list because it's an honorable Yeah.

Speaker 2 (30:06):
Yeah, well, believe it or not. Well, I'm just Radley's
guys off real quick. I had Evan Neil on the
ball on my on my.

Speaker 1 (30:13):
Page really is an X factor?

Speaker 2 (30:15):
Huh, because what if he actually wins a job at guard?

Speaker 1 (30:19):
So an X factor on the positive side? Yeah, okay,
hi buy that?

Speaker 2 (30:22):
What if? What if he what if he does? What
if he shocks the world and becomes one of the
two starting guards on this team?

Speaker 1 (30:27):
That's possible?

Speaker 2 (30:28):
No, that's there, that's not like, that's why we got
Hall of famers playing guard right now? I got you.

Speaker 1 (30:33):
Okay, Runion's obviously going to be a starter. He got
signed to a big contract.

Speaker 2 (30:36):
Yeah, I understood. But player anyway, Chris Board, who Gobrial
is absolutely enamored with to the High Heavens as a
special teams demon, and you guys know how I feel
about specials and changing field position. So I had him
on there. And I also ad I'm here Smith Morsett
because in the limited a.

Speaker 1 (30:55):
Lot of questions of the Giant Special teams for you
know that you ranked first in the division last week.

Speaker 2 (30:59):
Because because you said X factor, right, my X factor
for for for Smith mar Set and for Board is
that I'm with the Giants. I'm expecting huge things out
of both of those.

Speaker 1 (31:13):
Guys, So I really get huge things. You think it
really hurts them? Is what you're telling.

Speaker 2 (31:16):
That's where I'm going by that. I think if they
don't get Smith mar set to be a dynamic kick returner,
and if Board does not help this special teams to
become a dynamite dynamite unit which is going to help
field position. If they don't get those things out of
those two guys, that's gonna be a big blow, especially
to the way they've planned this season to go. They're

(31:37):
counting on that to happen.

Speaker 1 (31:38):
All right, you want to get to the calls, Sure,
let's do it. Two A one nine three nine four
five one three two a one nine three nine four
five one three.

Speaker 2 (31:45):
Uh.

Speaker 1 (31:45):
Before we do real quick, make sure you go check
out The Giants Little podcast is on the Giants Podcast
Network podcast feed, also the Giants YouTube channel. A lot
of good stuff up there. Last week we're talking to
some of the college coaches of these Giants players that
have come into the pros. We have more coming up
this week. We have Darius Alexander's head coach, Jason Candler
from Toledo coming up this week. Uh. That was fun.
Make sure you go check that out. And then Evan Barnes,

(32:08):
who's one of the newbie reporters on the Giants. Very
nice guy at the news Day is a good guy.
I wanted to get him the mix. We talked a
little football with him last Friday. That's going up, and
then we'll have a few more things as we move
forward here on the Giants Little podcast. Make sure you
go check it out all right, two one, nine, three
nine four five one three. A lot of new names
on this thing again. I got So we're gonna go
Jacob Tyler Owen. That's the order they called in. That's

(32:31):
the order we're gonna take them. Let's go to Jacob
in Binghamton. He's gonna lead us off today. What's up, Jacob?

Speaker 4 (32:36):
Hey, how you doing.

Speaker 2 (32:37):
We're good.

Speaker 4 (32:39):
I got just two things for you quick. One was
just maybe an idea for the I really enjoyed the
ranking system you guys did last week.

Speaker 1 (32:45):
Oh thank you.

Speaker 4 (32:47):
I had a just an idea for that where maybe
instead of the one through four like the top on
each other, maybe go through each position group and give
them a grade maybe like one through ten or something
like that. Where my example would be like I'd give
the Eagles wide receiver group maybe an eight or nine,
where ours would be like a six. Or seven, and
then added up that way instead, okanky for next year

(33:10):
or Jaradunpton if you guys wanted to do. And then
my other thing was just my X factor, and you
guys kind of nailed every single one that I had.
So I think I was going to go with Shane
Bowen actually as an X factor for the defense. We
have a lot more talent this year. Yeah, and I

(33:31):
think that you can put it all together. There should
be no reason why we don't have a top at
least fifteen defense.

Speaker 3 (33:40):
And that's all I got for you.

Speaker 2 (33:41):
Guys, Jacob.

Speaker 1 (33:42):
If the Giants done up a top fifteen, thank you
for the call. Awesome stuff. If the Giants do not
have a top fifteen ranked defense this year, they're going
to be in a lot of trouble.

Speaker 2 (33:49):
Yeah, it's going to be a painful season. They need
to be that good.

Speaker 1 (33:53):
I'm not saying top eight or top seven, but I
think minimum top half of the league.

Speaker 2 (33:58):
I was going to say at the very least fringe
top ten. I think they've got the talent that would
be a preference. They got the talent to do it.
I'm with you now.

Speaker 1 (34:08):
It's not gonna be easy with the schedule there's some
really talented offensive teams on the schedule, but this, this
defense needs to be the impetus for it makes this
team good.

Speaker 2 (34:16):
Without a doubt. It has to be. I mean, look,
the one thing, the one thing that we know, okay,
the one thing that we know for sure. While we
could talk all about the offensive line and the question
marks because every year that's an annual exercise that we
have to go through, what do we know we know

(34:37):
about certain players on defense who have certain levels of talent. Now,
you're right, Banks has been inconsistent, he hasn't played up
to it, but we know the ability he has. I'll
be frank. On offense, I have fewer guys that I
am sure of their talent. I'm serious. There are more

(34:58):
guys on defense where I think I I know what
their talent is.

Speaker 1 (35:01):
Of course, and you know the money they've spent on.

Speaker 2 (35:03):
Defense, no question, and even the draft choices correct. So
so you know, you talk about talent and your evaluation
of talent, and then you talk about the intangibles and
the production. Well, on offense, the Giants have more projections
than production. It's just that simple. Yeah, I mean, they've
been one of the worst offenses in the football the
last couple of years. That's it.

Speaker 1 (35:25):
Just look at the points scored per game. So I'm
with you.

Speaker 2 (35:27):
It's not fair to put that burden on the defense.
It's not unfair at all. It's in fact, it's required.
They need them.

Speaker 1 (35:35):
They need them, they need one hundred percent. Agree with you, Jacob,
good call, appreciate it. You know, doing the rankings one
through ten, I get where you're coming from there, then
you're not really doing it straight up like division rankings.

Speaker 2 (35:49):
I don't know.

Speaker 1 (35:50):
I'll have to think about that. I think that can
I don't know. I'll think about that, Jacob. It's a
good point. You get a little more nuanced that way,
I guess, But you know, how do you judge them
one through ten? And all right, I'll think about that.

Speaker 2 (36:01):
It's a good it's a good question.

Speaker 1 (36:02):
It's got a Tyler on Palm Beach. He's up next night.

Speaker 5 (36:04):
Tyler, Hey, John A, Paul, you guys doing Hey, what's
going on? I apologize I hopped on a little late.
Did you guys? Mention JMS as the next factor this year?
I think, not only for himself but for the team.
This is a huge year for him.

Speaker 1 (36:18):
Yes, he he. He was my number two after Banks.
But tell me why you think he is Okay, No.

Speaker 6 (36:23):
I was just wondering.

Speaker 5 (36:24):
I know you guys mentioned maybe a week or two
ago that Azudu was taking snaps in the position you
couldn't reveal, but I was hoping you would get some
reps as a center as a backup. But also just
I haven't called, I haven't talked to you guys since
the draft, and we'll we'll.

Speaker 2 (36:38):
Put the brakes on this one second for you. No, yeah,
go ahead, he is not. He has not taking snaps
at center.

Speaker 5 (36:44):
It wasn't center, okay, yeah, just.

Speaker 2 (36:46):
Just to be just to be fair. They've got a
bunch of centers here, guys who can play center.

Speaker 1 (36:50):
Platman and Morrissey have taken the center snaps behind yeah,
behind John Michael Smith.

Speaker 2 (36:56):
And Van Roten obviously is also capable. So they've got
so many guys. Let me just get that out of
the ways. And I have not seen Marcus Bowl there either.
It was a guy that I have some people have
not do it.

Speaker 1 (37:06):
I have not seen him.

Speaker 2 (37:07):
They got enough of guys right now who are taking
those reps.

Speaker 5 (37:10):
Okay, yeah, you guys mentioned that you weren't gonna reveal it,
so I was wondering if he was getting into center.
Good question way I have since the draft, and I
just think it's been a very, very refreshing offseason. This
is the Giants like, if you look at it, this
is really like their plan d getting Jackson Dart. I
would say Stafford than Rogers and cam Warden, and they got
Jackson Dart. But out of all those plans, I think

(37:32):
this is the best one. And I think that this
is what next year is gonna be, the last year
Dable in Shane's contract. I think, regardless, you have to
let them play this out, even if they're laying ducks.
Get a full year with Jackson Dart if he gets
in late this this season, you gotta let them, you know,
regardless of the record. Obviously, if there's circumstances where it's

(37:53):
just brutal, I think that you have to give Shannan
Dable next year at least let him play out the contract.

Speaker 1 (37:59):
You know, Tyler's interest, and I've thought about this, and Paul,
you know historically about this, probably do you go further
back then pretty much anybody.

Speaker 2 (38:07):
On this planet, But.

Speaker 1 (38:09):
I don't remember the Giants allowing a head coach to
enter the last year of his contract with one year remaining,
do you no.

Speaker 2 (38:17):
As a matter of fact, the Dan Reeves situation is
the one that they did do and it did not
go well.

Speaker 1 (38:25):
So really, Dan Reeves his contract actually expired, Yes, so
they did not fire him with any time left on
his deal.

Speaker 2 (38:31):
No, I did not remember that. That's interesting. He was
allowed to coach his last year without an extension, and
that was his third it was his fourth, fourth year
for his fourth year. It's not something the Giants liked
to do, want to do. It happened to work out
for a variety of circumstances that time, and it did
not work out well, and so since that time they

(38:54):
have not allowed that to happen again.

Speaker 1 (38:56):
Now, other like the Cowboys did that with McCarthy, other
teams have done that, but it's not very common.

Speaker 2 (39:02):
No, because, quite honestly, and I think we saw it
that year with coach Reeves, that would have been nineteen
ninety six, was his last year. Here, what you get
are too many questions, too many distractions, quite frankly, because
the media and the fans, and even then even though
there wasn't Twitter and stuff, there was a lot of distractions.

(39:23):
Sports talk radio is a big deal back then, it
still was, absolutely and get you get that part of it.
The other part you get is that the players, whether
or not they will ever admit it to you, all right,
because they don't want to, they won't, But they also
have a little bit less shall we say, intensity about

(39:45):
them because they're thinking that this coach might be a
lame duck and may not come back, and so they're
a little less focused, they're a little less intense.

Speaker 1 (39:52):
It's so easier to tune the coach out of you know, yes, yes.

Speaker 2 (39:56):
You're not. You're not necessarily following every single direction to
a ta more because in your back of your mind,
you keep saying to yourself, well, this guy may not
be here, and we're going to be playing for another.

Speaker 1 (40:06):
Guy, and you said, you don't want to sacrifice for
that person if he might not be here. No, no, ye, right, no.

Speaker 2 (40:11):
It's human nature kind of puts that little bit of
doubt in the back of your head, and so the
giants have always said, like, we don't want to do that.
The one time that it happened, it did not go well.

Speaker 1 (40:23):
Tyler, I think that's a good question because I your
reasoning is sound on while you're thinking about it, I
think it makes a lot of sense. Again, I don't
remember even having John Marra answer a question about that.
To be honest with you, I don't know what. I
don't know what he thinks about it.

Speaker 2 (40:37):
No, I don't think. I don't think that was I
don't think anybody has asked out of him. But also
because the Giants procedure here again, they followed their procedure
in ninety something percent of the time. It was only
one time that they didn't go ahead.

Speaker 5 (40:49):
Tyler, Yeah, no, sorry, I was just gonna say they're
at a weird point where they're not going to extend
either one of these guys. They started off hot and
then we've hit the lolls. But now you got this
young quarterback, you got Dables, so you know this is
his chance. This is a time to show John Mara
that you know, this guy can be transformed into hopefully,
you know, even fifty five percent of Josh Allen. But

(41:12):
my last point, I just want to mention that I
do think that the Giants is very optimistic. Now they
have they have a ton of talent and it's finally
time to you have to compete this year. They have
a ton of talent and it's time to compete.

Speaker 3 (41:23):
The only thing I'm a.

Speaker 5 (41:24):
Little worried about is the wide receiver depth. If you know,
I'm knocking on wood right now. If Neighbors is to
have an injury, it's kind of a tough room. Not
a tough room. But who scares you, you know, if
you're a defense who scares you out there?

Speaker 3 (41:36):
So I'm hoping this.

Speaker 5 (41:37):
I'm kind of open for full health this year in
the wide receiver room. But I do think that might
be one of the positions that the Giants, you know,
didn't target as well in the offseason.

Speaker 1 (41:47):
Tyler appreciate the call. Good stuff, and I don't disagree
with you. I look if well, that'll be a good
preview when we do our players. You can at least
afford to lose that you mentioned, it is probably gonna
be number one on my list.

Speaker 2 (41:58):
You know. This goes back to conversation we had earlier
when I mentioned Jalen Hyatt. Because if the Giants starting
receiving corps and tight end chorus healthy, Jalen Hyatt isn't
required to necessarily step up. You'd like it. But if
any of those guys goes down in that receiver's room,
and Hyatt's number four, he has to step up, and

(42:19):
it has to.

Speaker 1 (42:20):
And it goes back to the point that I made
when we talked about where the Giants stole the most
work to do in terms of long term roster construction.
I think we had that show sometime middle of May
and then May something like that. And the big one
for me was a number two wide receiver, right, you know,
Jalen Darius Layton just got paid. But if you look
at his contract, that's a contract of a number.

Speaker 2 (42:41):
Three wide receiver.

Speaker 1 (42:42):
I mean, look what two two at Well just got paid.
He basically got the same amount of money that Darius
Layton did. Is too twat Well or two?

Speaker 2 (42:48):
No, No, he's not.

Speaker 1 (42:49):
No, look, and that's nothing. Is Darius Lane. He's a
really good player. He's been awesome here. He's the I
love Darius.

Speaker 2 (42:54):
He's terrific. He's really good player. You know, Ultimately, I
remember Pars used to talk about this all the time.
You have to earn the respect of the other team's unit.
And to your point what you just said a minute ago,
neighbors gets hurt. Who won this receiving corps is going
to command the respect of the other team that they're

(43:18):
going to be distracted and they're gonna be worried about
that guy. And again there's nobody. I'm sorry that that's
not to disrespect anywhere.

Speaker 1 (43:24):
And I want to make you very clear, we're not
disrespecting those guys. No, we think Darius lne is a
very good NFL wide receiver. Wanda Robinson's awesome, he's a
really good slot and we know about Jalen Hyatts speed,
but we just haven't seen. Let me look, there's a look,
there's a reason when the Giants are picking sixth over
all that year that we all thought they were gonna

(43:46):
pick Mylique neighbors and it was necessary for them to
pick mylik neighbors.

Speaker 2 (43:50):
Let me just go back to my name that I
use for these guys, headache players. Yeah, there's no headache
player on this offense outside of mylie Neighbors right now. No,
there's not. No somebody's going to have to step up
and become that guy. And it doesn't necessarily mean they
have the gordeous numbers. What it means is they make

(44:12):
the key plays, the most impactful plays at the most
critical times. That's how you become a headache player, and
you make exposive plays, you know, a headache questayer, no question.
Maybe you're a guy that only catches fifty balls, but
if you're averaging seventeen yards of catch, you're a headache player.
Quite honestly, Mario Manningham was one of those kinds of guys.

Speaker 1 (44:33):
Go back to did de Shaun Jackson ever have eighty
catches in a year?

Speaker 2 (44:36):
No?

Speaker 1 (44:38):
Maybe he got over once or twice, but he wasn't someday.
I don't think you're guy. I know he was he
but was DeShawn Jackson a headache player? As Belichick though
about Manningham turned out to be a big headache for him. So, yes, Tyler,
we agree. I think you make a good point. And again,
I think if they didn't trade that pick to go
get Dart, that could have very easily been used on

(44:59):
a wide receiver we're in the draft. I think that's
very possible. And I'll say this too. You know you
talk about the future and predicting what's gonna happen. First
of all, the NFL is weird. Weird things happen. Who
knows what we're gonna be looking at come next February
or next January, middle of the month, middle of the month,
and win the season ends hopefully February. Yeah, you never know,

(45:19):
you have no idea. But let me just and you
talked about how you know Dart was you know, Plan
B or C or whatever, and that's what they got to, which,
by the way, I don't think it necessarily wrong. I'm
not disagreeing with that analysis, right. I think you're right
about that. And I think we're all optimistic of what
Jackson can be. We all like Jackson. He's great. But

(45:42):
when you pick a quarterback it picked twenty six, twenty five,
twenty five, thank you. When you pick him at twenty five,
that's not a guy you necessarily have to be married
to for three years. Like it's not. Oh my god,
we use so much draft capitalist got we can't afford
to get off of him if you get to next year.

(46:04):
And this is me knocking on wood, and please don't
let this be the case. And I don't think it's
going to be the case. If you're somehow picking in
the top two or three again and a guy sitting
there that you think has the talent to be if
you have a guy sitting there that you think had
the talent to be picked where the Giants picked Abdua

(46:25):
Carter this year, I don't think you could pass on
that player. If you have a quarterback on the board
next year, that is a legitimate top five grade on
your board, regardless of position, and you're picking where You're
picking a place where you can get that player. Oh wow,
I don't think you can pass on that player. It's
my point. And by the way, I've been consistent about

(46:48):
that the whole time. I know you have before the
Giants drafted a player this year. So this is not
reflective of my opinions of Jackson Dart. I want to
be abundantly clear about that.

Speaker 2 (46:56):
Your favor of taking swings, I said that.

Speaker 1 (47:00):
Or the Giants even made a pick this year that
if the guy doesn't work out, fine, pick one the
next year. So I'm being consistent in my philosophy. This
is not about Jackson. I'm being very clear about that.
Please don't aggregate me, but being very clear, I think
Jackson has a chance to be a really good NFL player,
but that doesn't necessarily mean that he has to be

(47:23):
your guy for the next three or four years. Ideally yes, does.

Speaker 2 (47:26):
He have to be?

Speaker 1 (47:26):
No, and Don John Mara, by the way, will not
step in and make somebody make you be that guy either.

Speaker 2 (47:32):
No, he will not. That's not the way.

Speaker 1 (47:35):
I just wanted to make sure I got that out.

Speaker 2 (47:37):
Yeah, No, I that's that's absolutely fair. I think that
there are certain sets of circumstances that can make you
feel strongly one way or the other. To me, it's
just way, way too early to even think about that hypothetical.
But I understand your point.

Speaker 1 (47:52):
My point is that you should have ruled.

Speaker 2 (47:53):
Out understood either way understood.

Speaker 1 (47:56):
I think all your options are open one way or
the other at this point because we haven't seen anything. Now,
I might have a different opinion when we get to
December and if Jackson's been on the fielding looks great,
then my mind's gonna change. But we're not there yet,
so my options like it's completely open. Like I'm not
whatever happens next offseason happens next offseason. Let's just worry
about getting winners.

Speaker 2 (48:17):
That's like what I said to the lad See he
was already talking about twenty twenty seven, Like I can't
do that. I'm talking about this year for.

Speaker 1 (48:24):
It might not be around the twenty twenty seven.

Speaker 2 (48:26):
I don't say that. I'm just kidding.

Speaker 1 (48:28):
None of us might be around the twenty twenty seven.
The way the world to do, and trust me, I
was reflective of you specifically. Okay, just the way everything's going.
All right, Let's go to Owen in Texas. He's up next.
Oh and what's happened to man?

Speaker 3 (48:41):
Hey, guys, thanks for having me. I very appreciate the time.
I've been listening to all since I was like fourteen
or fifteen.

Speaker 1 (48:50):
How are you now?

Speaker 3 (48:53):
I'm twenty eight, so you know, have been kind of
a big part of my life.

Speaker 2 (48:57):
How about that happened?

Speaker 1 (48:58):
Well?

Speaker 2 (48:58):
Thanks for sticking with us.

Speaker 1 (49:00):
I am making me field all one, but I I
appreciate the kind of works.

Speaker 3 (49:04):
Well let'll make that makes the two of us then,
But no, I mean y'all have h y'all weirdly, y'll
mean a lot to me. I've been listening to y'all
pretty consistently for that entire tonk of time, and I've
learned a lot from y'all.

Speaker 1 (49:17):
Thank you. I appreciate that. It means a lot, it
really does. I'm serious, very cool, just you know, show.

Speaker 3 (49:22):
Grat dude, I've got weird questions because all we can
kind of do right now is speculate on what's going
to happen.

Speaker 1 (49:28):
I love weird questions. Bring the weird questions. It's a
perfect May June of the NFL calendar. I want all
the weird questions.

Speaker 3 (49:35):
Bring them right, fantastic. Uh So, I was born in
ninety six. I say, I kind of became a fan
the year before the Giants one in seven, But I
was six when the merger, or not the merger, but
when the Texans became a team and the realignment happened. Yeah,

(49:56):
I hate the Cowboys, I hate the Eagles. I hate
the now whatever Washington football team. I don't know what
we want to call him anymore.

Speaker 6 (50:04):
But I don't have any hatred for the Arizona Cardinals. Okay,
and I don't really know what that time was like
or what the perception of that was from, like the
Giants perspective. Did we hate them the same man as
we hate these? Oh?

Speaker 1 (50:17):
And here's the problem with that. The Arizona Cardinals were
so consistently terrible. You never really had the ability. I though,
I'm not trying to be funny, like I was born
in eighty one. So I saw you start of the
ESTRO and following the NFL and Ernest in like nineteen ninety.
Let's say, right when I was nine, I knew it
was going. My first Super Bowl memory, my dad went
to the eighty six Super Bowl. He got tickets to

(50:38):
his company. He worked for JC Penny then, and he
ended up going to the eighty six Super I just
remember him being all excited about going to the game.
I remember watching the boomer, the Montana to John Taylor
slant that beat the Bengals because I loved Ikey Woods,
because I liked the Ikey shuffle.

Speaker 2 (50:54):
Wow.

Speaker 1 (50:54):
But I was like seven years old and I wanted
the Bengals to win, and I already then did not
like the forty nine ers for whatever reason. But like
you first really start following the league when when you're
a little older to your point, like you did it
when you were nine or ten.

Speaker 2 (51:05):
I was around the same. I was like nineteen ninety.

Speaker 1 (51:07):
You start playing like Tech Mobile and stuff like that,
and he kind of gets you into the game and
all that. The Cardinals were always terrible. I mean they
had that one little run when when Jake Plummer came
into the League, right, I think they didn't. They beat
the Cowboys in the playoffs one year and that was
like a huge upset. I think, I don't remember. But
they were never good. So you never got that animosity
for the Cardinals because quite frankly, they never earned that

(51:30):
animosity because they were never really a big challenge to
you in the division, or at least that was my
take on it.

Speaker 2 (51:35):
Paul, Well, you have to understand I go back further
than you guys, and I know when they were the
Saint Louis Cardinals.

Speaker 1 (51:41):
Weren'ty the bust and brads before?

Speaker 2 (51:43):
Okay? Baseball? Yeah, the same when they were the Saint
Louis Cardinals and they played at bus Stadium where the
baseball Saint Louis Cardinals played. Jim Hart was a perennial
Pro Bowl candidated quarterback.

Speaker 1 (51:55):
When did they move from Saint Louis Arizona? Oh my god?
That was then Phoenix by the way, there, the Phoenix Cardinals,
not the other.

Speaker 2 (52:00):
I want to say that was late eighties, early nineties.

Speaker 1 (52:04):
It must have been late eighties. I don't remember that,
kay Lewis Neil. Let me let me put it to
you this way. Otis Anderson was. It was an NFL
Rookie of the Year at running back for the old
Saint Louis Cardinals. Later on he became a Giant obviously,
was a comeback Player of the Year, ran for a
thousand yards and won a Super Bowl MVP nineteen eighty eight.

(52:25):
It was eighties, was seven. That's why I don't remember.
So I was.

Speaker 2 (52:27):
I was right right there in that ballpark. Uh, those
old Saint Louis Cardinals with Roy Green, who was a
two way player by the way, Okay, Roy Green was
a kick returner, he was a wide receiver, and he
was a cornerback. Devastating speed. He was the he was
probably before Champ Bailey. He was the last guy who
was really effective at trying both ways. That Saint Louis

(52:51):
Cardinals team was in the Giant's division.

Speaker 1 (52:53):
Well, Dion Sander's had in between there too.

Speaker 2 (52:55):
Well, that's right, I'm forgetting thea my bad. So. Stlewis
Cardinals were part of this division with Washington, Dallas, you know, Philadelphia,
and New York. Saint Louis was in this division. So
in those days, there was some dislike for the Cardinals

(53:15):
when they moved and they went out to Arizona. In fact,
they started out by playing as Arizona State University when
they first moved out there. That's that's the ball.

Speaker 1 (53:24):
And they were the Phoenix Cardinals until they became the
Arizona Cardinals in nineteen ninety four, So the Phoenix Cardinals
from eighty nine to ninety three.

Speaker 2 (53:32):
And so you know, that's where all of a sudden
it was like, ohhm, they're the Cardinals, all right, whatever.
But when they were the Saint Louis Cardinals, and they
were pretty good, Jim Hart, like I said, was their quarterback.

Speaker 1 (53:44):
Uh yeah, I don't remember Jim Hart, you know, for
my time.

Speaker 2 (53:47):
I'm just saying that, you know, don't don't discount the Cardinals.
There was a time when the Cardinals were not well
liked by Giants fans, but never to the extent to
the other team.

Speaker 1 (53:57):
Then there's a three, right.

Speaker 2 (53:58):
They were always the East emotional of the division.

Speaker 7 (54:03):
Rivals in interesting Okay, Now, just so you get a
feel for it from let me, I'm gonna go through
it here for you.

Speaker 1 (54:14):
Starting in the year, let's say nineteen eighty eight, when
they moved these are their win totals seven five five
four four seven eight four seven, four nine six three seven, five, four, six, five,
five eight five, So you did not get one ten

(54:37):
win season in their first twenty years playing in Arizona,
which is why the rivalry wasn't what it was supposed
to be.

Speaker 2 (54:45):
And the Bidwell ownership has always taken a lot of
bows and arrows from the fans. In fact, to be honest,
I'll give you one other side note, and I know
it's a little off the topic, and I apologize for
taking your time, but Otis Anderson because his best years,
even though we had a couple of good years with
the Giants, his best years were with the Saint Louis Cardinals.

(55:07):
He has trouble gaining some traction in the Hall of
Fame voting because he needs to be represented by a
Cardinals media rep. Well, the Cardinals media rep is not
from Saint Louis. The Cardinals media rep right now is
from Arizona. So he has absolutely nowherewithal to add extra

(55:28):
traction to Otis Anderson's Hall of Fame candidacy, and this
hurts him every single year.

Speaker 1 (55:33):
What are the weird questions you have on what's your
next one?

Speaker 3 (55:36):
A good question, by the way, one Steve Tish he
became an owner in five, I believe. Did you see
it change in the organization that they're going through having
Mayra of the Mayra family owned since I believe the
beginning of the franchise, if not pretty close to the
beginning of the franchise. Was there a change at all

(55:57):
when Steve Tish became part owner or is there kind
of everything kept going without I think.

Speaker 1 (56:03):
It's fair to say owing from a football perspective, there
probably wasn't a ton of change. But from a business perspective, right,
the Tisch family definitely modernized a lot of the ways
the Giants did business.

Speaker 2 (56:14):
Sure, and by the way, that was after the two
thousand season.

Speaker 1 (56:17):
Yeah, but Steve didn't step into ownership until his father
passed obviously, right right correct, right correct correct correct, So
that would have been two thousand and five to his point, right.

Speaker 2 (56:27):
Yeah, actually in ninety ninety seven, Okay, no, see ninety
one ninety one. I apologize. Nineteen ninety one, after the
Giants won their their second Super Bowl and Parcels had
stepped down because of heart issues and physically, and then
he had some some other things that were going on,

(56:49):
he just decided that, you know, he was he was
going to step away at that point is when the
Tisch family came in and bought half of the team
that was a spring of ninety one. Is that it?

Speaker 3 (57:03):
Yeah, I have one more? Yeah, yeah, fine, Wellington Mahra
and I heard this and it changed the way I
think about football a lot. And I heard this, I
believe from mister Detino at one of the fourteen years
I've been listening out with like the concept of how
Wellington Mahra looked at positional value and how you have
to have a good quarterback, a good left tackle, and

(57:24):
a good cornerback to have like a successful team. I
may be batching how that looks, but that's what I recall,
and that's not the case. Please educate me. But if
it is, do you think that's expanded of like that
tier of value as expanded as the league has gone
on to consider like wide receiver or I imagine not safety,

(57:48):
but defensive tackle. Especially right now, we've seen such like
an influx of like influx of like top defensive tackles
being more dominant and almost out ed rugers ed rushers
to some extent.

Speaker 1 (58:04):
No ohen good, good question. Appreciate the call man. We
got about the one thirty we got to run you.
Obviously I did not interact with mister Mara Wellington Marat
that was before my time, so I think you're the one.

Speaker 2 (58:16):
It was. It was an old fashioned mantra from back
in the late seventies early eighties. The old fashioned mantra
which is now adopted by everybody is that your four
core components to build a potential playoff team or contender
are your quarterback, your left tackle, your cover corner, and
your pass rusher. Those are the four components you had

(58:38):
to have over the years. Now everybody knows it, but
back in the day, that was not necessarily a thing
on the street. It was something that only core NFL
people kind of believed and didn't talk about it very much.

Speaker 1 (58:51):
Let me ask you something, Paul, would you replace one
of those four with something else? Today?

Speaker 2 (59:00):
Well, I think what happens is as the football cycles
into different emphasises on different styles of play, you have
to now make an adjustment.

Speaker 1 (59:11):
I'm saying, if you were building a team and you
were starting a team in twenty twenty five, would those
be your top four ones or would you have one
something else? Jumped in front of one of those four.

Speaker 2 (59:21):
I wouldn't change and jump, but I would probably add.

Speaker 1 (59:25):
Okay, I would put wide receiver ahead of corner.

Speaker 2 (59:27):
Well, I, well, it wasn't. It was just the core four.
It wasn't. Well, I'm using core four. They'd never called it.

Speaker 1 (59:34):
Well, my point is that I would play it base,
and it was no order. I would put a wide
receiver into my core four before I put a corner
into my core fourth.

Speaker 2 (59:40):
The only thing that was mandatory was that the quarterback
was one and the other three. With the other I
would simply say.

Speaker 1 (59:46):
And I think pass rushing offensive tackle are still two
and three on whatever order you want to put them in.
But I would then put wide receiver four. I think I.

Speaker 2 (59:52):
Would add a fifth. As opposed to taking somebody out
of moving somebody, I would add a fifth. I believe
that absolutely right now. You you have to have somebody
on the defensive interior, whether it's a DT, a nose tackle,
or a middle linebacker who can dictate, dictate your defensive
scheme against the offense and force them to deal with something.

(01:00:15):
Don't you have, but I think it's pretty important. First
of all, you've got to be strong up the middle.

Speaker 1 (01:00:20):
I do not disagree with that at all, And I
have no problem adding that to the five man Mount Rushmore.
In that Mount Rushmore, even if you check all five
of those boxes, you don't have a headache. Player on offense.

Speaker 2 (01:00:33):
Agreed, that's a problem. It's not a great situation, but
I will I will tell you if you if you
don't have the ability to be strong up the middle
and dictate something defensively, then it doesn't matter what the
offense has on the other side, they're going to be
able to move the ball against you.

Speaker 1 (01:00:53):
By the way, as all, I was at a local
restaurant getting a delicious hot dog the other day Pierson
knows where I went, Gayncious and I was sitting there
waiting for something, and somebody came up. He said, you know,
I don't want to do whatever, but he said, I
just want to say, you guys, especially considering that you
know you guys and why you're paid by the team,

(01:01:15):
thought you guys do a really nice job of having
really good, fair, honest conversations and tackles some tough stuff,
despite the fact that obviously where the Giants facility, we
worked for the team. He just said, very name is John.
He had very kind words for us those on the
I said that do him in person. I thought, it's
always nice when you guys. You know, obviously, I'm at

(01:01:36):
about with the kids a lot. They were out in
the car waiting for me to get them their hot
talks with the wife, and it was ice cream included
later in the day, not for lunch though, Okay, that's fine,
but yeah, So my point is that it's always nice
when you guys come up and you say hi. I
always I always liked that. Oh, it's very It's always fun.

Speaker 2 (01:01:54):
And we appreciate the folks who have been with us
a long time, like those folks really make us happy.

Speaker 1 (01:01:59):
And I wasn't even gonna saying about it, but think
the John who I spoke to at the Establishment basically
said the same thing. He's been listening to watching us
for a long time, and that's cool. Own statement made
me think of that. So I just want to say,
what's up. Very nice and I appreciate that. All right, Folks,
don't forget if you want a Giant season, take a membership, draft,
free agency. We know what the schedule is, some great

(01:02:19):
home opponents. Take your fans to the next level with
the Giant season. Take a membership catch the all the
action of met Life Stadium with an exciting home schedule
on the horizon. With the membership, you also stay connected
to the couple all year round, not just on game days,
with exclusive member access and benbit benefits. To learn more
about a New York Giants season, take a membership visit
Giants dot com, slash tickets, and of course you can
find all of our content on the Giants app, Giants

(01:02:42):
YouTube channel, or Giants TV, which you can find on
all of those streaming TVs and you know smart TVs, Amazon,
fire Sticks, Apple TVs. I got to call those smart TVs?
Do you guys can go check that out? Do you
know how to work the smart Yes? I do you sure?
I absolutely do. I use it all the time.

Speaker 2 (01:02:59):
It's awesome apps on them. Not only do I do that,
I merge my phone with my smart TV. Really it
helps me watch important programming.

Speaker 1 (01:03:12):
Important programming that you obviously have subscribed and paid for.

Speaker 2 (01:03:15):
Absolutely.

Speaker 8 (01:03:17):
I thought perfect, good, all right, thanks to being with
us on Big Blue Kick Off Live Tomorrow, Pawn and
I gonna do something fun tomorrow.

Speaker 1 (01:03:24):
We're gonna do our and I think tomorrow's the NFC
East player draft. I said, right, I believe that's what
you So we did this before. So we're gonna basically
take the four teams in the NFC pawn. I will
draft eleven man teams on offense and defense altogether. It's
gonna take on most of the show on morning, so
we might not get to your calls tomorrow. We don't,
that's okay. And then Pearson and Johnny Mack, we'll get

(01:03:44):
the judge which one of us came up with the
better roster. So that's what we're doing tomorrow day tune.
That should be fun.

Speaker 2 (01:03:54):
I think you've probably already greased their palms to make
sure you win. I don't have to grease anybody's pumpsed, Okay.

Speaker 8 (01:04:04):
That's all right, I get you all right, Thanks for
joining us, presented by Cadallac, the official luxury vehicle the Giants,
Benning you farewell from our podcast studio, presented by Hacking
Sack and Maridin healths keep getting better for Paul de Tenol,
Johnny Macpeerson, butler on, John Schmilk.

Speaker 1 (01:04:18):
We'll see you tomorrow.

Speaker 3 (01:04:18):
Everybody,