Big Blue Kickoff Live 7/15 | Patriots, Lions, Bears and Packers Previews

Paul Dottino, Lance Medow and Matt Citak chat with reporters who cover the Patriots, Lions, Bears and Packers. They discuss the teams’ off-season moves and their matchups with the Giants in 2025.

:00 - Patriots preview

21:13 - Lions preview

36:35 - Bears preview

47:58 - Packers preview

See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:04):
It's time for a big blue kickoff line.

Speaker 2 (00:06):
Nobody can ever tell you that you couldn't do it
because you're.

Speaker 3 (00:09):
On giants dot Com.

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Do?

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York Giant Prime and the Giants Mobile app Taffick part
of the Giants Podcast Network.

Speaker 1 (00:23):
Let's go ahead on the reason to dog.

Speaker 7 (00:25):
Here's welcome to Tuesdays and they should have a big
Blue kickoff live presented by Cadillac, the official luxury vehicle
of the New York Football Giants. He's Paul Theatino on
Lance Medal with you for the next sixty minutes. Matt
Sidetech will also be joining us later on in the program.
As today, we're going to be focusing on four different
Giants opponents in the upcoming season. And a reminder, you

(00:46):
can find the archive of the show on our retire
podcast network, on the Giants mobile app podcast platforms everywhere
and at Giants dot com slash podcast.

Speaker 8 (00:55):
As we welcome into the Giants Podcast Studio.

Speaker 7 (00:57):
It is presented by Hackensack Marine in Health Keep getting Better.
So first up, we're going to turn our attention to
the New England Patriots, who the Giants will collide with
on Monday Night Football in Week thirteen in Foxborough, December first,
right before the buy and to break down New England,
we bring in their radio play by play announcer none

(01:17):
other than Bob Soci Bobby got Lance Metal, Paul Detino.
Good to see you. Greatly appreciate the time, Hope Pole
as well as everything on your end.

Speaker 4 (01:25):
Yeah, things are great in these final days of summer,
of course, before we begin training camp and you know
you're jumping ahead of the regular season meeting. I'm equally
excited about that annual right of August when the Patriots
play the.

Speaker 2 (01:37):
Giants during the preseason.

Speaker 4 (01:40):
As well, always you know, a thrilling conclusion to the
preseason schedule.

Speaker 8 (01:45):
One hundred percent.

Speaker 7 (01:46):
Just not so sure if there's going to be enough
of the regulars in that game, Bob for us to
dissect and break down at this point. But your point
is certainly well take in. It'll be here before you
know it. So I want to start with big picture perspective, Bob,
with respect to the Pots, because I see some similarities
between New England and New York from the standpoint of
both of these teams struggled offensively, specifically last season. We're

(02:09):
at the bottom tier in points per game. But unlike
the Giants, New England has revamped things new coaching staff,
specifically Josh McDaniels. What in your mind is Josh going
to do based on his quarterback track record for a
young up and comer like Drake May.

Speaker 4 (02:27):
Yeah, and I think you really begin with Drake May
taking a step back where the Patriots were fortunate enough
to be in the position for that third pick, and
of course the Giants reportedly had interest, as we even
saw on NFL's Hard Knocks on HBO in Drake May.
So the Patriots got their quarterback. It seems the early
returns are very favorable and positive. And now combined with

(02:51):
Josh McDaniels, of course, who helped to orchestrate the Patriots
offense for so long in two stints as the play
caller for Bill Belichick, I think what we're going to
see is a lot of similarities between what Josh McDaniels
did in the past and even Brian Dabole for example
in Buffalo with Josh Allen, but also with an influence

(03:11):
by some of the newcomers to the Patriots staff brought
on by head coach Mike Frable. They include former offensive
coordinators elsewhere, Todd Downing, the former play caller for the Jets,
being one example. And so I think you're going to
see a blend primarily of McDaniel's offense, but also of
the West Coast principles, including that outside zone running concept

(03:33):
and also getting the quarterback, given May's athletic ability, a
lot of movement in the pocket and away from the pocket,
which is something that Patriots haven't really had a lot of,
even in the best days of course with Tom Brady
through the years, and May showed that improvisational ability last year,
the off platform ability, but I think now he's going
to do it in some ways within the structure of

(03:55):
what McDaniels does, and Josh has been always effective. I
think it identify and creating really opportunities to exploit offensively
mismatches with personnel groupings and motion, and we'll see a
lot more of that this year.

Speaker 2 (04:09):
Bob. I'm very interested in the dynamic between head coach
Mike Rabel and Josh because when Mike Rabel was head
coach of the Titans, he had King Henry in the backfield,
and we all know that meant it was going to
be a run heavy oriented offense. But with the Patriots,
we think they're going to want to be a Drake
May oriented offense. So how much of that old run

(04:33):
game that Vrabel was used to having do you think
we will see this year?

Speaker 4 (04:38):
You know, well, I think it's an interesting situation because
you have Rabel who joined the Patriots when Josh McDaniels
was essentially a low man on the totem pole the
Patriots coaching staff, and of course as Josh evolved, Mike
Rabel went on to become a star of the Patriots
and then in his own right an excellent head coach
with the Tennessee Titans, and he had a lot of
success as the head coach of the Titans, against the

(05:00):
Patriots offense in the twenty eighteen regular season game and
with Derrick Henry being a star of a playoff game
in twenty nineteen Tom Brady's final game as a Patriot
in the Wildcard round of the playoffs. But I think
the one thing about Josh McDaniels as well that gets lost,
it's easily overlooked, is that with a game plan type approach,

(05:21):
which the Patriots have generally had, of course exclusively under
Bill Belichicken more or less last year as well. Gerrodmeo.
They will win if they feel it's the best path
to success. And I think the greatest example of that
in Josh McDaniel's play calling tenure was late in the
twenty and eighteen season where the Patriots had lost back

(05:42):
to back games. You might remember the miracle in Miami
they fell in a last second to hook and lateral
at the Dolphins, while they rebounded from that game along
with another close loss with Pittsburgh, by essentially becoming a
run first and run predominantly team late in the regular season,
and they carry that into the playoffs. Roll pasted the

(06:03):
Chargers in the Divisional round and then ran the ball
extensively against the Chiefs in the AFC Championship before Brady
had to win it in overtime with his arm de
grond Kowski and Uteman. So McDaniel's showing that flexibility and
a willingness to run it if that's what he has.

Speaker 3 (06:19):
To do as a play caller.

Speaker 4 (06:20):
And I think again that knowledge that Mike Rabel has
with Josh McDaniels, going back to the early days of
Josh's NFL coaching career, is really important. Here, there's a
relationship that they've been able to build on and I
think it's led to a smooth transition with Josh coming
back to New England this offseason.

Speaker 7 (06:38):
Web, how much does that tie in to Also, one
of the themes that it appeared that they focused on
this offseason was revamping the offensive line, which goes twofold. Obviously,
you want to protect Drake made but to your point,
maybe you want to establish the run using a first
round pick on Will Campbell, Garrett, brad Berry, Morgan moses.

Speaker 8 (06:57):
To Polish veterans.

Speaker 7 (06:59):
How does that enter the equation of what you were
just talking about in terms of the focus of the
offensive philosophy, Yeah.

Speaker 4 (07:06):
A Lance run or pass. For the last several years,
the Patriots offensive line wants a strength, in great part
due to Dante Scarneki, but also Brady's ability in the
pocket to quickly exploit matchups.

Speaker 3 (07:17):
It really took a lot of pressure.

Speaker 4 (07:18):
Off the offensive line. Not to take anything away from them,
but the last few years the offensive front line has
been really a train wreck for the Patriots and last
year was the nator for New England and they had
to address that in multiple ways through free agency. You
mentioned Bradbury and Moses, and I think they also tried
to do it through trades in the last couple of years,
successfully for some maybe death players, unsuccessfully for a frontline tackle,

(07:43):
and so they drafted Will Campbell, and I think that
was a pick that really generated a lot of pre
draft debate, even in New England outside of the Patriots hierarchy.
They were set on Campbell from the start, even though
there are questions about whether or not he can play
left tackle in the NFL. Certainly is going to get
that opportunity with New England and whether or not he

(08:03):
is a long term left tackle or eventually has to
move to left guard. Right now, he is clearly the
best option for them, but that's not the only position
of need on that offensive line. There were a lot
of holes for the Patriots up front, and I think
again to take it back to Josh McDaniels, but we
didn't see last year in the West Coast offensive Alex
Van Pelt was allocating extra bodies to help overmatch left

(08:26):
tackle or right tackle. So the Patriots I think, are
going to do more with an extra tight end, primarily
as a blocker or maybe with the back helping out
chipping more, adding pass protection another layer for them, And
that's again part of McDaniel's past, and I think it's
going to be part of his future going forward this season.
But this is an offense that had a lot of

(08:47):
holes at wide receiver and I think running back. There
is certainly a lot of depth issues for them across
the board and all positions, but offensive line is where
they had to start in this draft.

Speaker 2 (08:58):
Yeah, I want to stick with the offense one more
second here, Bob. Trevion Henderson, the second round pick out
of Ohio State, was a big time college player. Does
he immediately become an impact guy in that room?

Speaker 1 (09:10):
Oh?

Speaker 2 (09:10):
I hope so. I think so.

Speaker 4 (09:12):
And I think you know of the few things you
really can tell from non padded practices in a passing
camp like OTAs you look at a variety of things
that players can do athletically, and he's one guy that
really stood out, I think to just about anybody watching
by all accounts in print and on air, he was
really one of the studs of the OTA session for

(09:35):
the Patriots, just in terms of his ability to burst
after the catch. And he comes into the NFL with
not only great numbers from college but I think also
something that often young backs lack when they make that
jump from the college game to the NFL experience, and
as well, i'll say production. Based on his film grades,

(09:55):
I'm sure his ability to pass protect his understanding of
that concept as a running back in this league at
how important it is. And I think again McDaniels will
try to utilize him in a lot of ways, the
same way he did with James White, the same way
he did with the ex Giant Shane Vereen when he
was instrumental in the Patriots' success against the Seahawks in

(10:16):
Super Bowl forty nine.

Speaker 7 (10:18):
One last one for you, Bob, on the offensive side
of the ball wide receiver you had alluded to was
also an area of focus and goes back to the
time where Brady was still playing. That would be the
narrative right hovering over New England. Does he have reliable targets? Well,
they brought in Stefan Diggs who is coming off of injury,
but jurious the personality that Diggs brings to the table

(10:39):
both on and off the field, Bob, because as you
well know, based on your facial expression reaction, a lot
has been made out of that. But I find it
interesting because Rabel's that personality that is played. He understands
what needs to be brought to the locker room, how
those dynamics you think will mesh, and what Diggs could
provide still a young quarterback in Drake May and being

(11:03):
that reliable intermediary in terms of maybe not having to
go for the home run constantly throughout the field.

Speaker 4 (11:11):
Absolutely, you know, before I get to the physical part
of it and what he could add as a receiver
for the Patriots, I'll go to that facial expression because
I was thinking immediately of a viral video of Stefan
Diggs on a boat, a boat party with Cardi b
his significant other. I believe still that you know, really
caused Mike Vrabel some conquent early in the Patriots OTAs

(11:35):
Diggs headed a substance that was unidentified unknown to some
party goers on that boat, raised a lot of questions
and certainly caused several days of chatter on sports talk
radio here in New England, and Rabel, you know, addressed
it and Diggs was back in practice. It was at
practice in participating for the first time shortly thereafter, and frankly,

(11:58):
despite coming off a twenty in the middle of last season,
again through the OTA is based on what we could see,
he looked exceptionally athletic quick. He was able to stop
on a dime and change direction with an ability that
we haven't seen, frankly by a Patriots receiver in a
long time, maybe not since Julian Edelman, but those kind

(12:19):
of route running skills. So he looks the way he
says he is. Had a schedule, but there are a
lot of questions. It didn't end well in Minnesota in
terms of his relationship with the team, nor in Buffalo.
Houston seemed to go better, but it was only a
half season before the injury cut short that campaign. But
the one thing is there's constant production thousand yards, one
hundred catches even last year on pace for those numbers

(12:40):
with the Texans, and this team desperately needs that. He
doesn't have maybe the high end speed, especially at his age,
of some other players the Patriots had considered going after
in recent years. Last year they made a play for
Kelvin Ridley in the offseason. But I think he can
bring a lot of things to this team, especially for
somebody that he's got a three year deal, but you know,
he's really playing beyond year one for a year before

(13:04):
beyond your one over this contract, and thus far when
he has been present, all reports are that he's been
a positive influence on the young wide receivers and that's
something they've desperately needed. But we'll see how it goes
Lance and Paul as the season progresses. You know, if
there's one of those games or a stretch of games
where he's not getting the ball thrown his way to

(13:25):
his liking, we'll see how it shakes out, because you know, obviously,
you know that has been something that's followed him in
his career from Minnesota to Buffalo.

Speaker 2 (13:34):
Bob, We've spent most of our time talking about the offense,
but I thought it was interesting when I looked at
the Patriots defense. I saw they spend money and went
and get guys at every single level. Whether it was
Milton Williams along the line, Harold Landry and the linebacking corps,
were Carlton Davis back in the secondary, it was obvious
a point of emphasis for them to get guys who

(13:57):
were experienced producers so that they could sert them immediately
into the lineup.

Speaker 4 (14:02):
Yeah, I think I'm going to try to play a
little bit different defensively, We'll see less of the two gap,
presumably up front, So you want a guy like Williams.
Hopefully from the Patriots' perspective, he can increase his snapcount
and be as productive as he was in Philadelphia, where
he also had a lot of other outstanding linemen to
take away some of the attention that he's going to get,

(14:24):
certainly for New England. But I think the Patriots look
at him alongside Christian Barmore, presuming that Barmore, coming off
blood clots, continues on a healthy path towards the start
of the season. He's an explosive player with a lot
of athletic ability, and Williams as that type of guy
as well, and I think they're going to look to
penetrate more with those two people up front, alongside a

(14:46):
guy like Landry, who Mike Vrabel knows exceptionally. While he
and his staff, the defensive staff for this team has
predominantly coaches who've worked with Mike in the past in
Tennessee and have a lot of experience. With Harold Landry
on the other side, you've got underrated guy in my opinion,
in Anfrandy Jennings, who kind of does Yeoman's work and
has done that for the Patriots, and really a wild
card is sorts Keyon White for them, who has the

(15:08):
ability to be an explosive pass rusher. But I think
last year after five and a half sacks in the
first two weeks of the season, really didn't have much
help to take some of that attention away from him
that he was constantly attracting from teams week in week out.
And then you mentioned the back end. Now you have
Carlton Davis, who, if healthy, gives them a second shutdown
cornerback to compliment the up and coming and if not

(15:31):
already here Christian Gonzalez, who cracked the top one hundred
of the NFL their first round pick from a couple
of years ago. And then in between they added Robert Splane,
another former Rabel Tennessee Titan, who really came out as
a Las Vegas Raider with outstanding numbers the last couple
of years, and I think brings leadership to the linebacking corps.
The defense was considered the strength of the team the

(15:53):
last couple of years, but frankly in critical moments two
years ago under Bill Belichick, it disappointed last year. It
really was not consistently a good unit for this team,
and they have really turned things over from top to bottom,
with a few exceptions.

Speaker 7 (16:08):
As a follow up to that point, the one number
that at least jumped off the page to b from
last season was only twenty eight sacks, and that was
the lowest total in the NFL. Now, as you well
know and Paul well knows, that doesn't always tell the story.
Quarterback hits pressures also go into that. But why was
getting to the quarterback and finishing such a prevalent issue?

(16:31):
And how much do you think, to your point, adding
volume up front will actually correct that.

Speaker 4 (16:38):
Yeah, I think there's a number of factors that involved
in the lack of pass pressure last year. One, you
had Belichick departing as the Patriots head coach, and I
don't mean that as a shot at Grodmeo and his staff,
but you had a first time defensive play caller and
DeMarcus Covington who was in that role, and I think
he tried to simulate a lot of the things the

(16:58):
Patriots were doing in the ass, but they didn't have
the personnel necessarily to do it. And obviously you lose
a half century's worth of defensive knowledge and ingenuity with
the head coach, Bill Belichick in that room when they
formulate a game plan. Even though he had defensive coordinators
like Matt Patricia along with Brian Flores, who were able

(17:21):
to craft very good.

Speaker 3 (17:22):
Game plans as well.

Speaker 4 (17:23):
I think beyond that, you look at the loss of
Barmore to blood clots, and then I think just the
inconsistency the linebacker position for them was really a weak
area overall. I think the secondary struggled. A guy that's
been sorely missed, in my opinion, and quietly so considering
the attention that's paid elsewhere. Is Devin mccordy in retirement,

(17:44):
a free safety who didn't make a lot of sensational
plays in the eyes of his critics, but he prevented
so many that will never know about, I think in
the eyes of his coaches and teammates with his range
free safety.

Speaker 3 (17:58):
They really lacked that last year.

Speaker 4 (18:00):
Bill Peppers as well because of an off the field incident,
and in his case, he was really a tough presence
in the secondari as you guys know, who also brought
some leadership, and the leadership issue is something that's been
really interesting to watch unfold this year and how it's
been addressed by Rabel and his staff, because the Patriots

(18:22):
had a number of guys who were in line to
return as veterans players who were on championship teams in
the past, in some cases multiple championship teams, and it
seemed like Rabel was intent, whether it was their performance
or simply just seeking a fresh start, to clear a
lot of those guys out of here and bring in
new players, to set a new tone, build a new culture,

(18:45):
and really give them the opportunity across the board to
emerge as the leaders over this team. So it's been
quite a transformation in a lot of ways culturally but
as well schematically for the Patriots, and I think it's
really evident on.

Speaker 2 (18:57):
Defense, Bob, we only have about a minute left. I
want to ask you about special teams. Know when Vrabel's background,
I'd be shocked if he's not putting a heavy emphasis
on that this season.

Speaker 4 (19:09):
No question, Paul, And you know, special teams. For me,
it's an area first of all that's I fighted exceptionally.
I fighted especially fascinating, and I think it's completely overlooked
by most fans and observers in our world at times.
But we saw the results in the last couple of years.
When you have a poor special teams unit for your

(19:32):
football team in Belichick, you know who had a great quarterback,
an all time great quarterback in Brady and these great
defenses and defensive teams. He still spent a lot more
and put a lot more resources into special teams and
generally the Patriots won that matchup week in week out,
and it was a critical difference maker in a lot
of big games, including Super Bowl fifty three. And I
think Vrabel has that same understanding because, as you said,
I mean his early career as a Pittsburgh Steeler, he

(19:54):
stayed in the league and played on special teams and
then as a Patriot continue to do that even in practice.
As guys, we talk about Rabel jumping in on scout
team reps around special teams to wreak havoc with his
teammates in practice, and he has that mentality as a
head coach. I think he knows how it can go
when you don't have a good special teams unit. Based
on his final couple of seasons with Tennessee, the Patriots

(20:16):
had to address place kicking. They drafted Andy Borogalis out
of Miami the last couple of years for a team
that had Adam vine Teri, Stephen Gostkowski, and Nick Folk.
It has been the cause of a lot of close losses,
including I think that game against the Giants couple of
years ago and the Patriots lost to Tommy DeVito. Missfield
goal early by Chad Ryland really set the tone for

(20:38):
that game, and that was a constant occurrence for them
in a season in which they lost about a half
dozen games by touchdown or less, so they had to
address special teams. They also have a new long snapper,
which was interesting. Julian Ashby replaces the two times Super
Bowl champion Joe Cardona, and I think that's a sign
too of kind of wanted changing the culture in New
England in taking a guy that has been in all

(21:00):
old world leader, if you will, for the Patriots, letting
him go to bring in a draft choice from Vanderbilt,
and Julian.

Speaker 7 (21:06):
Ashby write the track record when it comes to the
kicking game for the New England Patriots, and who knows, Bob,
Based on how both of these teams square off with
one another, maybe we're in store for another interesting ending.
In week thirteen, Monday Night Football, the Giants visit the
Patriots in Foxborough.

Speaker 8 (21:22):
That is going to be December first.

Speaker 7 (21:23):
Right before the buye he is Bob Zocy, Patriots radio
play by play announcer joining.

Speaker 8 (21:28):
Us here, Bob, Big Blue Kickoff Line.

Speaker 7 (21:30):
Bob, greatly appreciate the time and inside, and look forward
to seeing you later.

Speaker 8 (21:33):
This is it.

Speaker 4 (21:34):
Likewise I'll answer Paul. You guys take care. We'll see
you soon.

Speaker 2 (21:37):
Here as well.

Speaker 7 (21:39):
So from the Patriots, we now turn our attention to
the Lions. The Giants will travel to Motown to battle
Detroit in week twelve, November twenty third, and to delve
into the Lions and discuss what to expect from this
squad this season, we bring in John Mcaroon, publisher of
Detroit Lions on Sports Illustrated, founder of Detroit Sports podcast Network,

(22:01):
John got Lancemtto, Paul Detino here on Big Blue Kickoff Live.
Greatly appreciate the time, hope, Aul, as well as everything
on your.

Speaker 9 (22:07):
End, Everything's great.

Speaker 5 (22:08):
It's a big year for the Detroit Lions, hoping to
rebound after a disappointing playoff loss to the Commanders. Some
you look at the Detroit Lions and there's been a
little bit of an overhaul of the coaching staff. But
when you look at it, you guys know, the talent
level that Brad Holmes has assembled has really put the
Detroit Lions in a position to compete every single year.

Speaker 7 (22:30):
Lad, you brought up the changes with the coaching staff,
because that's where I want to begin this dialogue. It's
probably the most notable change the fact that they've got
a new offensive coordinator in John Morden, who had a
little history with Detroit for our audience to understand in
twenty twenty two, he was on staff before he went
to the Broncos. And the Kelvin Sheppard, who was already
on staff as the linebackers coach, is now going to

(22:52):
replace Aaron Glenn. How do you see the dynamics of
the schemes. I guess John changing with these new faces
at the helm.

Speaker 9 (23:02):
Yeah, no doubt.

Speaker 5 (23:03):
And I do think that one thing that has been
maybe overlooked by a lot of people is that Dan
Campbell has a lot of input in the development of
the coaching staff, has assembled the coaching staff that is
chock full of former NFL players and Kelvin Shepherd is
one of them. He's been identified pretty early in the
Dan Campbell regime as somebody that could potentially be a
coordinator and eventually one day be an NFL head coach,

(23:26):
and so he worked his way up from a position
coach and now is the new Detroit Lions defensive coordinator.
But under the tutelage of Aaron Glenn, I do think
that this defense is going to continue to be aggressive.
You're gonna see multiple looks up front, and you have
the returning Aiden Hutchinson. So Kelvin Sheppard is probably you know,
now you probably look at it from the perspective of

(23:47):
he was a former linebacker, so I expect a lot
of pressure from sam linebackers. I expect the development of
Jack Campbell and Derek Barnes to continue to maybe be
even more of a factor in this defense, whereas Aaron
Glenn with a defensive back.

Speaker 9 (24:01):
So maybe you saw a.

Speaker 5 (24:01):
Lot more pressure from Brian Branch and Kirby Joseph emerging safeties.
But now I do expect Calvin Shepherd to have his
own imprint on this defense. But maybe you probably naturally
would assume a lot more impact from the linebacker position.

Speaker 2 (24:15):
Well, John, let's stick with that defense, because we all
know Hutchinson went down with the broken leg last October.
Derek Barnes, who's not a household name, he wound up
significantly bustling up his knee last September. So you didn't
have those two guys for most of the season. Then
Alee McNeil goes down, you know, back in December with

(24:36):
an ACL Now, I know he's not a household name,
but again he's a good player and a big part
of that front. So where's the health of these three
guys as they go into training camp.

Speaker 9 (24:47):
Yeah, you look at it and.

Speaker 5 (24:47):
You probably are going to presume that Alee McNeil Malcolm
Rodriguez a young emerging linebacker as well, and those two
probably will start the year on the pup list. Derek
Barnes should be ready to go. I expect him to
be a participant at training camp. We've got a chance
to see him this spring.

Speaker 7 (25:03):
Yeah.

Speaker 5 (25:04):
One of the factors for the Lions this year is
hopefully the defense being able to stay a lot more
healthy than they were last year. But what was fascinating
last year, guys, is that the Lions dealt with over
a dozen guys on the r but still we're able
to win fifteen games. So that just speaks to Dan
Campbell's coaching staff and his ability to have his message resonate.

(25:26):
But one of the things everyone's looking forward to is
the return of Aiden Hutchinson and his ability potentially to
be a defensive Player of the Year candidate. But most
people expect Lee McNeil to return in probably the second
half of the season, and Derek Barnes, yes, with a
new contract, expected to continue his development, and I think
many people see him as a comfortable sam linebacker who

(25:49):
can just like he did in college. Pressure the quarterback
can be another factor that can help Aiden Hutchinson and
that defensive line when he has a chance to line
up on the edge.

Speaker 7 (25:59):
Marcus Tavinport that's another name I would throw out there,
and also got hurt back in Week three with the
triceps injury.

Speaker 8 (26:04):
To your point, injuries all across the board.

Speaker 7 (26:07):
I want to stay though on that subject in terms
of potential balance this year, John, because you mentioned Dan
Campbell is heavily involved in game plan and we know
he's aggressive. We'll keep his offense out there for every
fourth down humanly possible. But if the defense, assuming it
stays healthier this season, how much better balance do you

(26:27):
anticipate And could that influence Dan Campbell's aggressiveness in how
he approaches games.

Speaker 9 (26:35):
Yeah, no doubt.

Speaker 5 (26:36):
And that's really a fascinating look at Dan Campbell and
how he's taken the tutelage from from other coaches and
the ability that you realize that this is a coach
that wants to be aggressive when you have such great
offensive talent and you realize, okay, it's one of those
deals where Sean Payton really instilled the ability to be aggressive,

(26:58):
to use analytics in order to really showcase that, hey,
if you stay on the field with your offense, you
have a chance to excel.

Speaker 9 (27:04):
So I don't know if I really believe that Dan Campbell.

Speaker 5 (27:06):
Will be less aggressive when you have great offensive weapons
like at Jamier Gibbs, who's expected to really be somebody
to produce maybe even a thousand yards receiving and a
thousand yards rushing. But to your point, there is more
confidence I believe in the defense when you have young
defensive backs and Terry and Arnold and Ennis Rakeshaw who
are expected to take strides forward. They brought in DJ

(27:29):
Reid from the Jets. As you guys know, and you realize, Okay,
even though they lost Carlton Davis, bringing in DJ Reid
some may view.

Speaker 9 (27:37):
As even an upgrade.

Speaker 5 (27:39):
And yeah, it does make it a little bit more
interesting in terms of decisions when you can count on
your defense.

Speaker 9 (27:43):
But guys, you know this, or maybe you guys don't.

Speaker 5 (27:45):
With the offense that I've seen from the Giants, it's
an offensive league, and with Dan Campbell and the ability
to score, this was one of the highest scoring offenses
last year, guys. And when you realize the way in
which the offensive line was built, the confidence that he had,
it would behoove Dan Campbell to go for it a
little bit more because of the fact that you have

(28:07):
a veteran in Jared Goff, you have one of the
premier quarterbacks in the league. You have a decent offensive
line that's going to be featuring younger talent but arguably
one of the best right tackles in the league. And
if it's fourth and two, fourth and one, I still
see Dan Campbell being quite aggressive and really taking it
two opponents.

Speaker 2 (28:27):
You know, John, it seems to me that the Lions
have such a terrific roster on both sides of the ball.
They have the luxury when they got to pick in
the draft at number twenty eight of just taking the
best guy on the board, and Tyler Williams, defensive tackle
out of Ohio State, that guy is a force. How
quickly are they going to try to get him some snaps?

Speaker 9 (28:49):
Very quickly.

Speaker 5 (28:50):
I think that he's probably projected to be a Day
one starter along with Tate Ratleys. Those are the two
guys early picks that we project to have the most
impact for the Detroit Lions sooner rather than later. And
you realize what some of the strengths he brings. And
one of the key facets that Brad Holmes has kind
of now started to divulge in terms of his overall
philosophy is he definitely values the interior of the defensive line.

(29:14):
Whereas all us fans and reporters are like, let's look
at Aiden Hutchinson, let's look at Marcus Davenport, let's look
at the defensive ends. He's like, guys, really, when you
look at it, if you don't have strength in the interior,
teams are just going to run all over you. And
so what Brad Holmes has decided is that, hey, we
want to make sure that we have veterans like DJ
Reader bringing in a young draft pick in TYLERK Williams

(29:36):
from Ohio State. So clearly the big ten is right
in Brad Holmes's backyard. So he had a chance to
go to Ann Arbor and check out Ohio State quite
a bit. He was there probably scouting a lot of
the Michigan players as well, but he definitely got a
first hand look at Taileek Williams. And one of the
first things that he does is he can stop the run.
He's a run stuffer. And the belief is that with

(29:57):
development with the new defensive line co and Casey Rodgers,
there will be development in his pass rush. But first
and foremost, the Lions want run stuffing big men, and
I do think he'll ackemate quickly and be an impact
player in the Detroit Lions defense.

Speaker 7 (30:11):
John, this conversation is music to Paul's ears. We're talking
about the trenches. This is right up his alley. A
more serious note, you could argue the Lions, I would say,
have been defined by play in the trenches, right.

Speaker 8 (30:25):
You alluded to earlier.

Speaker 2 (30:26):
They have had one of.

Speaker 7 (30:27):
The best offensive lines in football, and of course the
ability to get after the quarterback. What I don't think
is being talked enough about, though All Pro center Frank
Ragna abruptly retires last month. Okay, that has been a
staple of their line. Kevin Zeitler, who Giants fans saw
up close a personal a few seasons ago, and that
was a significant loss when he moved on he signs

(30:48):
with Tennessee. I'm not saying that they don't have reserves, John,
but those are two notable losses up front on the
offensive line to establish the run, in pass protection.

Speaker 8 (30:58):
How do you see that impact the flow of playoffs front?

Speaker 5 (31:02):
Yeah, and this is now going to be one of
the first tests we get to see in terms of
Brad Holmes restocking talent first round, the first wave of
his first couple of years, we identified a lot of
talent because the Lions were drafting a little bit higher.
Now the last couple of years with success having been
to the NFC Championship Game, now back to back division winners.
Now we're going to get a chance to see how

(31:23):
does Brad Holmes and the front office personnel go out
and scout talent at the lower ends of the draft,
but they've been they've pretty much had a clue that
maybe Frank Ragnow was on the tail end of his
career because last year they went out and drafted a
couple of linemen in Christian Mahogany, who figures to be
a starting left guard many people are very high on him,

(31:44):
and Giovanni Manu, a developmental project who figures to maybe
be a tackle of the future. And then this year,
two more offensive linemen drafted in Tate Ratlich, who's going
to compete to be the starting center or at right guard,
and Miles Frasier, the stout talented right guard out of LSU.
So rad Holmes understands, hey, you know what, we're are
the best college football players in the SEC, and he's

(32:06):
targeted quite a bit of offensive linemen that project to
help out. And then here's the key too, in regards
to going back to the coaching staff. Hank Fraley earned
interviews this year for offensive coordinator position out there in Seattle,
and he's widely regarded as one of the great offensive
line coaches in the league and probably is a future
potential offensive coordinator who made the decision to come back

(32:28):
to Detroit and so just based on the development of
Pinae Seul and the development of the young offensive lineman,
I expect there to be continued success. It might take
a little bit of time early to gell, but absolutely
the run game is going to be a strong facet
of Dan Campbell's offense always.

Speaker 2 (32:45):
John. You know, it's funny. Over the last couple of years,
Goff has been as efficient and as productive as any
quarterback in this league. There's no question about that. But
when people talk about the superstar quarterbacks, his name doesn't
usually come off the the tungue like Patrick Mahomes does.
What does he do over these last two years? What

(33:06):
does he done to be that good that consistently And
is there any way to expect that there'll be any
drop off?

Speaker 8 (33:16):
Yeah?

Speaker 5 (33:16):
Absolutely, And here's the thing. John Morton was a key
factor in installing the offense that Ben Johnson ran. Now
the question mark is going to be how does Morton
call games at certain spots? How does he deploy the weapons?
The vast number of weapons the Lions have. And you
look at Jared Goff and many people thought once he
was traded that his skill set would erode. But coming

(33:37):
to Detroit, what Ben Johnson gets a lot of credit
for is and the front office personnel staff is crafting
an offense that suits the skills of the signal caller.
What a novel idea look at what your quarterback does
well and highlight that maybe other teams could take a
page from the Detroit Lions. And here's what Jared Goff
does well. He's really, first and foremost a competitor, great

(34:00):
and he probably took great offense to being discarded by
the Rams and he comes in and he actually worked
to get better and across the board in terms of
scanning the field, reading defenses, understanding what's in front of him.

Speaker 9 (34:13):
I do think that he improved in every facet of
the game.

Speaker 5 (34:16):
And here's what the issue is in regards to kind
of talk outside of Detroit, just the growing nature. Now,
you guys know, the quarterbacks that get a lot of
attention are those that are a little bit more mobile,
a little bit more flashy. Jared Goff is a prototypical
pocket passer and those you know, it's a great thing
to have, but you guys know that with collapsing pockets

(34:39):
and these defensive ends getting bigger, stronger, faster, Unfortunately, he's
a statue out there at times, but you got to
give him credit against the blitz and against pressure. He's
one of the great quarterbacks in terms of knowing exactly
where his receivers need to be. And when you have
an Aman Ross Saint Brown who runs routes at the
best rate there in terms of his route tree and Christmas,

(35:00):
I think what Jared Goff was able to do was
really highlight the strengths of his accuracy, his ability to
get the ball out quickly and to be in the
face of pressure, understanding where his receivers need to be
in terms of hot routes and getting the ball out quickly.
And what really, in the end, guys, in the keep
it simple model of football, what he got better at
is he reduced the turnovers, and he became a lot

(35:23):
better at securing the football, and he became really, really
a glorified, really upper level game manager. And I know
a lot of people think that's insulting, but in the end,
if the name of the game is to score a
lot of points and lead your offense, Jared Goff has
been able to do that at a high rate. Now
this year, it's going to be one of the question
marks we all wonder is what's the drop what's the

(35:45):
level of the offense going to look like with new leadership.
But guys, Jared Goff is surrounded by some of the
best talent that you could ask for in regards to
Jamison Williams, one of the speediest wide receivers out there
in Amara Saint Brown who has emerged as one of.

Speaker 9 (35:59):
The best receivers.

Speaker 5 (36:00):
So I don't expect a big drop off, but it'll
be interesting to see how the calls look in regards
to how many deep shots they take.

Speaker 8 (36:07):
Yeah, he's certainly not lack of targets.

Speaker 7 (36:08):
It'll just be interesting whether or not he intentionally trips
over himself to then catch the Bears defense off guard
and throw down the field like we saw hunter Ben
Johnson's leadership.

Speaker 8 (36:18):
That maybe is the only thing to look out for.

Speaker 7 (36:20):
Giants traveling to Motetown to battle the Lions in week twelve,
November twenty third should be a good one. He's John Mcaroon,
publisher of Detroit Lions on Sports Illustrated, founder of the
Detroit Sports podcast Network. John really appreciate the time of
the inside and look forward to seeing you.

Speaker 8 (36:37):
Down the road next season.

Speaker 2 (36:38):
Thanks No doubt about it.

Speaker 5 (36:39):
I'm also looking forward to seeing Brian Daball and how
he works with the young quarterback. Also Brian dave Ball,
former Michigan State coaching assistant.

Speaker 9 (36:47):
There so go Green.

Speaker 7 (36:48):
As always, the connections are across the board, they are galore.

Speaker 4 (36:53):
Well.

Speaker 8 (36:53):
Coming up on Big Blue Kickoff Live.

Speaker 7 (36:55):
We'll turn our attention to the NFC North as Paul
Ta Tino I Matt Sinetech take you through the Bayer
and the Packers.

Speaker 2 (37:01):
Stay tuned, and now it's time to preview the Chicago Bears.
Week ten, November ninth, Chicago will be hosting the New
York Football Giants. Zach Pearson from Bear report dot Com,
part of the twenty four to seven Sports Network, joins
us and Zack, thanks so much for taking the time today.
You're talking about a Bears team out there that was

(37:22):
five and twelve last season, wound up getting their head
coach fired, and Ben Johnson comes over where he really
did great things for that Detroit offense. What can we
expect from him and the Bears this year?

Speaker 10 (37:35):
Yeah, it's funny because we have this little saying here
in Chicago where the Bears are back to back to
back offseason champions, but it hasn't really translated into the field.
This year, I think it's a little different. I think
the excitement is warranted just because last year they did
something they've never done their franchise history by firing a
head coach midseason and Matt Everfilis. Not only that, but

(37:56):
then they went out a couple months later and got arguably.

Speaker 1 (37:58):
The top coaching candidates.

Speaker 10 (38:00):
So with Ben Johnson, you're going to look at an
offense under Caaleb Williams going into year two that need
to take the next step. There's a lot of weapons.
They've built this offense around Caleb Williams. There really should
be no excuses this year. It's time for Caleb Williams
to pay off that investment. And I think we're gonna
see a better quarterback. I think we're gonna see an

(38:21):
offense a little similar to we saw in Detroit. A
lot of twelve personnel, you know, want to use DeAndre Swift,
want to use their tight ends, but they also have
weapons on the outside with Romadonsay, DJ Moore, you know
Colson Lovelan. They took a number ten and they took
a wide receiver in Luther Burden, who a lot of
people thought could have been a first round pick. So
I think we're gonna see a little bit of a
better offense, maybe a little bit more of explosive offense

(38:42):
this year for the Bears.

Speaker 11 (38:44):
Yeah, and so between the additions of Ben Johnson, you know,
all those playmakers on offense, along with the offensive lineman
the Bears went and acquired. I guess, what are the
expectations for Caleb Williams in year two? And also how
did he look throughout the spring practices.

Speaker 10 (39:00):
I'd say the you know, the expectations are elevated, it's
he has to take that next step.

Speaker 1 (39:05):
He has to show improvement.

Speaker 10 (39:07):
And I think you know, when you watch James Daniels
now being called, you know, a top ten quarterback and
Bo Nick's got his team to the playoffs, I think
that kind of ramps up the expectations a little bit,
just because he was a number one overall pick. So
being more consistent, being better with his deep throws, I
think those are kind of things he needs to work on.
But in terms of what I've seen the spring, you know,

(39:30):
it's hard to fully judge when they're not in pads,
but we've kind of seen what we saw all last
year where he can make these spectacular plays on the
run out of the pocket. He's been a little more consistent,
but there's also been times where you know he'll be
bad on accuracy, or he'll bail the pocket a little
too early, when when he gets the pads and everything

(39:50):
like that, it'll be a better judgment. But I think
so far they're trying to work on mechanical things, mental
things with Caleb Williams, and we've actually seen a change
in his foot when he takes the snap. I forgot
if it was he went left to right or right
to left, but he's now back doing what he was
doing in college, which was a little interesting to me.

Speaker 2 (40:09):
A lot of times young quarterbacks Zach will take too
much time holding the ball and they'll be as responsible
for sacks as the offensive line will. But I think
it's quite obvious that any team with a losing record
needs to approve its offensive line. There's been a lot
of retooling going on there. Who is the most important
key Obviously we talk about left tackle, but of the changes,

(40:30):
what has to work on that line for.

Speaker 1 (40:31):
Them, I think it's center.

Speaker 10 (40:33):
I think it's a position where they've been searching for
a center. Since you know, Cody white Hair kind of
was getting injured in twenty seventeen twenty eighteen, they haven't
been able to find a legit center, you know, you
talked about They went out and got you know, Joe
Tooney and Jonah Jackson on the trade market, but then
right away in free agency they signed Drew Dallman, which
kind of felt like the worst kept secret in the

(40:55):
league to anyone paying attention to it. But I think
Dolmand's going to be the key. He still a little
bit younger. Last year, the Bears just didn't have any
consistency at the center position. Now, the whole offensive line
was a mess, but you know, high snaps, the cadence
and the timing wasn't there. With Caleb Williams, I think
he's the most important piece because you have him, you know,
on a three to four year deal. I believe it

(41:16):
is so he could kind of be Caleb Williams's center
for the future and having that consistency in that relationship
that's gonna be very important because we've just seen too
many times over the year, is the pressure get up
the middle, you know, with game wreckers on the interior,
defensive line that there's had to go against.

Speaker 1 (41:33):
Their centers have literally had no chance at all. It's
been pretty bad. Yeah.

Speaker 11 (41:38):
So going into his rookie year, one of the reasons
why Caleb Williams, in addition to just being the top pick,
had so much hype around him, was because of all
the pieces around him, and especially the wide receivers. Now
Keenan Allen is no longer in Chicago, but as you mentioned,
the Bears drafted Luther Burnon, it's now year two of
romadoons A, and of course DJ Moore is still there.
Then you throw in Colston Loveland. So what do you

(41:59):
think this ceiling is for all of these, you know,
for all of these offensive playmakers around Caleb Williams.

Speaker 1 (42:05):
Yeah, I think there's some thing for the offense. Is
the top ten offense? Maybe top five if everything clicks.
You know.

Speaker 10 (42:12):
It was interesting they went Coleson lovelin, which a lot
of people thought Tyler Warren was probably the pick at
number ten, but look at the tape.

Speaker 1 (42:19):
He just kind of makes more sense for what Ben
Johnson wants to do.

Speaker 10 (42:22):
He's got that Sam laporta comp more natural pass catcher,
I think than even what they have in Cole Comet.
The interesting guy to me is Luther Burdon. We know
now that the Bears really like Trevon Henderson. He went
one pick ahead of them to the Patriots and they
ended up with Luther burn and they're not complaining. I mean,
like I said, he's a first round talent. We haven't

(42:43):
seen much of him on the field, but I just
I'm curious to see how this is gonna work with
those three guys. They went out and signs the kias
they signed Devin Duverney. They have a couple of guys
that can in that wide receiver three roll. But for
Luther Burnon, it's interesting because he's kind of a different
style wide receiver than DJ Moore and Roma Dunesay is
more explosive after the catch then you know Dunsay in

(43:04):
more you know, different respectively.

Speaker 1 (43:06):
In their own ways.

Speaker 10 (43:07):
But I think he can add another dynamic to this offense.
So in terms of ceiling overall for all these guys,
I think they could have you know, top three receiving
corps in the league, top four if everything clicks. I'd say,
you know, offense as a whole, like I said, probably
top tennis, all.

Speaker 2 (43:25):
Right, Jack I'm going to address the defensive personnel, or
maybe even let that do that in a moment. I
want to first go to Dennis Allen coming over from
we know he was the head coach at The Orleans.
He's not the new defensive coordinator, So just reserve this
to schematically speaking, what do you expect to be different
and is he going to be able to do a

(43:45):
lot of improving with a defense that may not have
as many bodies as one would like.

Speaker 1 (43:51):
Yeah, he was my favorite higher of the offseason.

Speaker 10 (43:53):
He's great, and in terms of his scheme, I think
there be playing more man to man coverage.

Speaker 1 (43:58):
Which we didn't really see a lot under Matt Reflues.
It was a little more zone based at times. You know,
with Dennis Allen, I don't think you're gonna blitz a lot.
I think he just wants to have his corners out there,
go out there and prove it.

Speaker 10 (44:11):
Tyrek Stevens, in a defensive back, had a great quote
on it such I paraphrasing essentially saying, Dennis Allen, lets
us go make our money. Defensive backs make our money
in man coverage, and that's what we like out there.
They have the personnel to do that too. They have
Jalen Johnson, TERRYK Stevens, and Kyler Gordon. It's as good
as with three defensive backs in terms of starting that
you're gonna see in the NFL. So yeah, I think

(44:32):
it'll be more man covered in the secondary. I think
it'll be different disguises up front. I mean, not a
lot of blitzing, but maybe moving some guys in the line,
you know, so like Irvon Dexter has played inside, maybe
he goes to the outside on a couple of plays.

Speaker 1 (44:45):
And I actually think, you know, we're gonna.

Speaker 10 (44:46):
See a little bit more three linebacker sets than people expect.
It's not gonna be a huge amount because they do
want to use the Nickel and Kyler Gordon, which is
also kind I mean, we could see Kyler Gordon at
safety too, That's what they hinted at early in the offseason.
So yeah, I think it's been a lot more man
and man coverage and was trusting his guys in that
back end of the defense.

Speaker 11 (45:06):
So sticking with the defense, I feel like last year
the Bears defense was you know, a little mixed bag
of results. The pass defense played a little better. The
rush defense, though, really did struggle and it seemed like
Ryan Poles, you know, went into the offseason trying to
address that with the additions of Grady Jarrett, Dalio Adibingo
and then drafting Schamar Turner. So how much better do

(45:28):
the Bears expect the run defense to be this year
with those editions and of course with Dennis Allen as well.

Speaker 1 (45:34):
Yeah, I think it's gonna be better.

Speaker 10 (45:35):
And another reason would be they're getting Andrew Billings back.
If you watch when Andrew Billings went out, I think
it was Week three or four, their defensive line just
pretty much went downhill. Girvan deck Start has had four
or five games where he was just looked like a
star on that defensive line, and when Billings went out
impacted him because he was getting double teamed.

Speaker 1 (45:54):
So I think the addition of Andrew Billings will help
as well. Getting him back. Gonna have to be better
in the run game.

Speaker 10 (46:01):
You look at last year's tape and I know a
lot of things happened, you know, the whole Washington Hail
Mary thing and and and pretty much you know, getting
letting Arizona run all over them. A couple of weeks later,
you watch that San Francisco game, it looks like they
flat out quit. I mean, they just let the forty
nine ers run all over them. I don't think that's
gonna happen this year. I think with the additions they
have and how Dennis Allen is gonna use those guys,

(46:23):
I think they'll be better way up front, especially in
that run defense.

Speaker 2 (46:27):
Does you mentioned Zas before. Does he become part of
the kick return team on specials or no?

Speaker 10 (46:33):
I think it'd be more Devin Duverney case. He might,
but they also if Tyler Scott makes the.

Speaker 1 (46:38):
Roster, he'll be another guy that's out there.

Speaker 10 (46:40):
They have actually have a couple of guys, but I'd
probably say Devin Duvernet is ahead of them right now.

Speaker 11 (46:44):
Just finally, just considering how tough the NFC North is overall,
what are expectations overall for the Bears this season?

Speaker 1 (46:54):
Yeah, you know, it's tough.

Speaker 10 (46:57):
I think, like we've been talking, they've made so many
moves to help Caleb Williams.

Speaker 1 (47:01):
They just extended Ryan.

Speaker 10 (47:03):
Poles, they brought in Ben Johnson. So it kind of
feels like playoffs are bust. But I don't think eight
to nine wins in this division is disappointing.

Speaker 1 (47:10):
Like he's. I mean, this is a really tough division.
The Lions, who knows.

Speaker 10 (47:13):
What's gonna been after losing all those assistant coaches. But
you have guys like you know, I said this before.
I think JJ McCarthy and Caleb Williams are two of,
if not the two most important players in that division
because if both are good and both can take that
next step in their career, and obviously, you know McCarthy's
first season starting, I think the Vikings and Bears will
be so much better. The biggest question mark to me
is gonna be Green Bay. I don't know kind of

(47:35):
what to expect from them. I don't I don't know
if Xavier McKinney's gonna get them six, seven, eight more
interceptions like he did last year.

Speaker 1 (47:42):
But yeah, I think the Bears, I think the.

Speaker 10 (47:45):
Expectation should be eight to nine, just be in that
playoff race, that wild card race at the end.

Speaker 1 (47:51):
You know, eight to nine wins in this division is
it's pretty darn good, especially after winning five all what
happened last.

Speaker 2 (47:56):
Year, Zach, everybody has optimism in Ja in August. Where
can people read your stuff? As the Giants fans get
closer to that game and want to know what's going
on in Chicago.

Speaker 1 (48:08):
Yeah, you can read my work at bear report dot com.

Speaker 10 (48:11):
I'm also on Twitter at zach Zack Underscore Pearson well
tons of coverage. We're already ramping up for training camp
next week. So thank you guys so much.

Speaker 2 (48:20):
Zak Pearson, thank you so much for joining us. And
now it's time to talk about the Green Bay Packers
week eleven, November sixteenth a met Live Stadium. They will
come here to visit the New York Giants. We talked
to Peter Burkowski of the Leape out there in Wisconsin. Peter,
thanks for joining us. And you know you're talking about
a team that was eleven and six last year, lost

(48:42):
to Philadelphia on the road in the wild card game.
But I have to imagine the Packers are thinking they're
gonna go a heck of a lot further this year, though, Well.

Speaker 3 (48:52):
It's still going to matter what the matchups are, right,
It always is going to matter what those matchups are.
And so you face the Philadelphia Eagles in the first round,
you're gonna have a time again. But that's why you
have to win your division. And that was the problem
for the Packers last year one in five in divisional games,
and they were a Carl Brooks fingertip in the other
Bears game from losing that game from zero to six.

(49:15):
And they were also very close to beating the Lions.
They were close to beating the Vikings in those games.
Close doesn't count. This is not horseshoes or hand grenades, Paul.
So you have to find ways to win those games.
In twenty twenty three, they were able to do it.
In twenty twenty four, for whatever reason, they weren't, and
so it's that situational football. Brian Gudikins said at the

(49:37):
end of last season he wants to see Jordan Love
control the game a little bit more. The best quarterbacks
in the NFL in the fourth quarter, they find a way,
right the Mahomes, the Allens, the Jackson's, the Burrows, they
find a way. The Packers, I don't think know that
they need Jordan Love to do that every week, but
there are times when they need him to control the

(49:59):
game a little bit. That's the next step in the
evolution for Jordan Love, and the Packers think he can
get there. I think he can get there.

Speaker 11 (50:06):
I'm glad you brought up Jordan love. That's where I was.
I was going to start. You know, his first season
as a starter, he looked great out there. Last year
seemed like he took a little bit of a step back.
Why exactly do you think that might have happened? And
how did he look through at the spring heading into
the twenty twenty five season.

Speaker 3 (50:24):
Yeah, I think some of the weirdness of last year
was based on the injury. He goes to Brazil and
I believe he tweaked his something in his lower body
early in that game. If you recall the footing in
that Brazil game, they played on an ice skating rink.
In that game, everyone was slipping everywhere the whole game.

(50:45):
He slipped early on on a drop back trying to
plan his back foot, and he starts throwing these fadeaway jumpers,
which is which is a Jordan love thing. He'll hit
his back foot, not transition his weight, and he's able
to make these throws because his arm is just that good.
And then at the end of that game he has
an MCL injury. He comes back two weeks later, three
weeks later against the Minnesota Vikings, does not look the same,

(51:08):
starts to work his way back and then as a
part of a compensation problem. I actually spoke to one
of his physio folks about this. He pulls his growing
against the Jacksonville Jaguars and plays hurt against the Lions,
and after the season he said, look, my knee was
not one hundred percent really the whole year. And I

(51:29):
just said on Lockdown Packers, the show that the daily
show that I host on the Packers the other day,
he needs to learn how to play better through injury.
Every quarterback has to learn how to do that. Joe Burrow,
as someone who we saw him hurt a couple of
years ago, did not play well. It affected him in
a lot of ways. Patrick Mahomes has sort of learned
how to play hurt. The best players have to be

(51:51):
able to do that, and he did not play at
the same level last year. Really a turnover worthy play problem.
He was a little more reckless with the I think
because he couldn't move. He is the kind of player
who wants to make every throw. Because he can make
every throw. He does not get sacked. One of the
lowest pressure to sack guys in the NFL. When you

(52:12):
pressure him, he's not gonna take a sack. He's going
to try and make a throw. Last year that led
to some weirdness, and I think we over index some
of the weirdness. You remember the pick six maybe against
the Rams, where he's falling literally sideways and tries to
throw the ball out of bounds, doesn't get enough on it.
It goes right to a Rams linebacker for a pick six.
He's the pick six against the Lions on a screenplay

(52:35):
Watch that play, Guys, he can barely move. That was
right after the groin injury. That was the first game
after the groin injury. In the rain. He's trying to
get the ball to Josh Jacobs on a screen. It's
off target for whatever reason. Kirby Joseph is kind of
like hiding behind Zach Tom and makes this incredible play,
returned it for six. I think we over index sometimes

(52:55):
on those plays that look really bad because by and
large it's not a pro for him. Like if you
look at his career turnover worthy play rate, it's right
in between Jalen Hurts and Jared Goff, who are guys
that we consider take care of the football kind of quarterbacks.
I think because he can do crazy things and will
occasionally do crazy things. We think of him as this
reckless guy. He's not really, but he's got it. I

(53:19):
think tight even from there, he can tighten it up
from what we saw last.

Speaker 2 (53:22):
Year, Peter. One of the key stats for me that
causes a lot of deception amongst the value of quarterbacks
are drop passes. Oh now, I saw two different numbers
that said to me that the Packers had at least thirty,
if not more drop passes last year. They drafted Matthew Golden,
who ran a sub for to three okay when he

(53:45):
came out of school in the first round. Clearly that
wide receiver room is going to have to do more
to help Jordan Love, won't they.

Speaker 3 (53:53):
Yeah, And and the Warren Sharp Sharp Football Stats, they
put out a number that on they call it receiver error,
So whether it's wrong routes, whether it's a drop. The
Packers led the NFL in value lost to receiver error
last year, and on third down, no one lost more
value than the Packers than Jordan Love on receiver aeron

(54:14):
Jordan Love didn't even play two games. Guys didn't even play,
and he still led the league in lost value on
third down. You go back to like that that Lions
game I mentioned, yes, Jordan Love had that weird pick six.
There were four five maybe six depending on how your
charting it drops in that game, including one in the
end zone, and all of them were on third down.
That that just can't happen. And so they play this

(54:37):
egalitarian style of offense where it's, you know, it's sort
of the Warriors basketball, the ball finds energy style of offense.
The open guy gets the ball right. But on third
and eight, what is the play? And it's kind of
either Matt Lafleur has to scheme something up perfectly or
Jordan Love has to make a play and get them

(54:58):
in the right has to kind of do the Joe
Burrow where it's like I got to read everything out
and make sure I know exactly what the defense is doing,
and then even if I put the ball right on
the numbers for someone, Don Tavian Wicks led the league
in drops last year. Jayden Reid third in drop rate
last year. Now, those guys for their careers are not
high drop players. But don Tavian Wicks, for example, had

(55:19):
a good drop rate his junior year and then led
the nation in drops his senior year. He's a volatile
player in terms of catching the football, which is a
problem when your job is to catch the football. So
it's not surprising they bring in Matthew Golden. They bring
in Savian Williams from TCU, who is this tantalizing bucket
of tools six four, two hundred pounds, ninety six percentile

(55:42):
speed score ran in the low four fours for a
guy that size. I mean, he is a freak of nature.
His highlight reel guys is like good. Just if you
want to have spend a fun four minutes, just YouTube
Savian Williams highlights.

Speaker 2 (55:56):
Oh yeah, you will.

Speaker 3 (55:57):
Think he should have been a first round pick if
you just watched the highlight they are incredible. But down
to down guess what consistency was a problem. So I
found that pick particularly interesting because I'm like, this is
kind of like the receivers. They already have tantalizing size,
speed guys within consistencies. But Wick's last year of his
deal read going into They're gonna want contracts next offseason.

(56:19):
So you know, that's part of why we saw that
they are going to have to get better play out
of those guys. I think one name that I'll give
to you here is they have talked. Jordan Love has
spoken about in the spring getting the ball to Tucker
Craft the tight end more. He led all tight ends
last year and yards after catch perception. There was a
point in time, even into December of last year. I

(56:42):
think it was like nine point six yards after catch
per reception. So throw him the ball. He's getting a
first out like every time, and that's after the catch.
So they want to find more ways to get him
the ball. He said. The spring work that he wanted
to do into the summer was winning one on one matchups.
So I've got a linebacker or safety, let me beat

(57:03):
them one on one. Let me find ways to shake
them to get open, to use my body, those types
of things. I think you're going to see Tucker Craft
become a bigger part of this offense because when they
featured him, he was outstanding. Go back watch that Rams
game in LA. I mean, he looked like George Kittle
in that game. And that was when I started to go,
wait a second, there's something here that I did not
realize that they had. And I think they felt the

(57:24):
same way about that. They went, WHOAOA, we got to
get this guy the ball more.

Speaker 11 (57:30):
Yes, just sticking with that wide receiver room for a second.
Last year, that group it seemed like it was kind
of crowded between Jaden Reed, Christian Watson, Romeo Dubbs, Wis Melton.
And then the Packers go and do something that they
did not do once with Aaron Rodgers understand it, which
just take a wide receiver in round one, and then
they double down and took another one in around three.

Speaker 2 (57:51):
So now there you know, at.

Speaker 11 (57:52):
Least six bodies in that wide receiver room at the
top of the depth chart. How is playing time and
touch is going to kind of be split between all
those guys.

Speaker 3 (58:01):
Well, Christian Watson's going to start the year in all
likelihood on pup ACL injury in week seventeen, Week eighteen,
how many weeks are in the season again, guys the
final week of the season last year, and so he
seems to be ahead of schedule. But Matt Lafleur sort
of downplayed the hey, maybe he could be back early stuff.
I would expect him to start on pup. That's four
weeks now instead of six, Remember it used to be longer,

(58:22):
So I would expect him back sooner than later. But
this is a team that always liked to rotate eyes.
That's just what they've been I also would not be
surprised if one of these guys gets moved between now.

Speaker 1 (58:36):
And week one.

Speaker 3 (58:38):
There was already a little bit priming of the pump.
Albert Breer had a story in MMQB probably six weeks
ago now, very early, like we've been at spring camp
for like five and a half minutes, and all of
a sudden, it's like Packers love Matthew Golden, like, look out,
there could be a trade in here. And I was like,
that made my antenna perk up a little bit. I'm like,
the Packers have not seen enough Matthew gold And in person,

(59:00):
and to make a decision like that, that to me
was like, let's chum the waters a little bit. Let's
see who calls on this. I had been told earlier
in the offseason that the Packers had discussed a Romeo
Dobs trade as part of a different set of moves
last year. Remember Romeo Dobbs, old quarterback now plays in Pittsburgh.

(59:20):
They could use a wide receiver too, after trading George Pickens,
So there could be some opportunities here if Matthew Golden
looks better than expected. If Savion Williams shows more progress
than expected, it is a crowded room. But again, Christian
Watson's going to start the year hurt, and you can
never have too many bodies. This is a team that
at the end of last year, in that Eagles playoff game,

(59:41):
Christian Watson goes out the week before to ACL just
tough luck, right, But then in that Eagles game, Romeo
Dobbs gets hurt in that game, and then Jayden Reed
gets hurt in that game. They're throwing like gotta have it.
Passes on fourth down to Malik Heath, who is someone
that your audience think I just made up and I
promise I didn't, and Bow Melton late in the fourth
quarter is getting heaves and it's just like that can't

(01:00:03):
be what your team looks like. Depth is the superpower
of the twenty twenty five agree made Packers because they
don't have the same number of elite players as some
of these other teams. I'm not even sure they have
as many blue chip players as the Giants, but I
expect the Packers because of their depth, because of the
overall quality. That's what they've leaned into here, and it's
worked for them.

Speaker 2 (01:00:22):
Peter, I have thirty seconds to ask you about the defense. Yeah, here,
Alexander is now with the Ravens, but that's a solid
defensive cores all around. How much will they miss him? Again,
we only have about thirty seconds.

Speaker 3 (01:00:35):
It was not a problem. Last year he played half
a season and the Packers were a top ten defense.
They win because they don't have any holes, not because
they have elite talent and coverage is a weakling system.
You are as good as your worst player, not as
good as your best player. And that was the Packers
to a t last year. They're just solid everywhere. And
Zavier McKinney Sorry, guys, Xavier McKinney was a superstar last

(01:00:55):
year for the Packers. So he is the eraser back there.
He makes that defense go all right.

Speaker 2 (01:01:02):
Peter Bukowski from The Leap, Where can people get your work?

Speaker 3 (01:01:06):
So Lockdown Packers Daily podcast check us out there. The
Leap is a daily newsletter during the season. It's five
days a week, and then go check out locked on
Sports Today. It's our all sports flagship show on the
Lockdown Podcast network All Sports. So it's like the first
fifteen minutes of Sports Center. Get all your sports stories
get caught up on. If you're a big Giants fan, Okay,
we got other sports, other stuff to get you caught
up on. In the morning. It's your morning sports page

(01:01:28):
because no one reads the newspaper anymore.

Speaker 2 (01:01:30):
Peter, thanks for your time. We'll see you during the season.