Big Blue Kickoff Live 7/17 | NFC East Previews

John Schmeelk and Paul Dottino chat with reporters who cover the Cowboys, Commanders, and Eagles. They discuss the teams’ off-season moves and their matchups with the Giants in 2025.

:00 - Cowboys preview

21:37 - Commanders preview

40:40 - Eagles preview

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Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:04):
It's time for a Big Blue Kickoff line.

Speaker 2 (00:07):
Nobody can ever tell you that you couldn't do it
because you're.

Speaker 1 (00:10):
On Giants dot Com.

Speaker 3 (00:11):
Do you know what I saw?

Speaker 4 (00:12):
New York Giant Crack and.

Speaker 1 (00:15):
The Giants Mobiles seventeenth.

Speaker 5 (00:18):
One tuckdown.

Speaker 4 (00:19):
We all we're all tampick.

Speaker 1 (00:22):
Part of the Giants podcast network.

Speaker 3 (00:24):
Let's go on, dogs.

Speaker 6 (00:27):
Welcome to another episode of Big Blue Kickoff Live, brought
to you by Cadillact, the official luxury vehicle the Giants.
I am John Schmelt, Paul Patino with me and now
we're joined by Kyle Yeomans, who does a great job
covering the Dallas Cowboys for Dallas Cowboys dot Com. And
and Kyle, are you doing the preseason games on the
on on on TV again or on the radio.

Speaker 4 (00:44):
I will be on the preseason broadcast, pregame show, sideline,
possibly some play by play, but I'll be uh, I'll
be around for some of those preseason met Actually, that
is for sure.

Speaker 5 (00:55):
That's awesome.

Speaker 6 (00:56):
Obviously, Kyle hosts a ton of the Cowboys podcast. He
does basically what I do for the Giants. He's really
locked into the team, so really excited to kind of
get his feel on on what's going on with the
Cowboys and boy Kyle a lot to talk about. So
let's start big picture wise coaching. What do we expect
to see from Brian Schanheimer this year and what he's
going to bring as a head coach and also keeping

(01:17):
the play caller duties at the same time.

Speaker 4 (01:20):
Yeah, I'll start with the what he'll bring as a
head coach, and that's energy. You're gonna see a lot
of energy from Brian Schottenheimer. Whether it's winning or losing,
it's gonna still have some level of atmosphere in culture
to it. That was his number one key throughout the
offseason as he wants to shift the culture here in

(01:41):
Dallas to become a more positive environment, a more building environment,
and then of course hopefully that turns into winning some
football games. And it's different than Mike McCarthy a complete
one eighty at times. Not to say Mike McCarthy was
not a player's coach. He definitely took care of his players,
he took care of his staff, but he did it
kind of a different energy and a different mindset that

(02:03):
Brian Schottenheimer is ultimately going to bring now when it
comes to x's and o's. It's going to be interesting
because I know, not New York Giants fans, but New
York Jets fans have known Brian Schottenheimer for a little
bit of time. Of course, up in Seattle, he called
plays as an offensive coordinator under Pete Carroll for a bit.
He hasn't called plays in Dallas yet, and so it's
gonna be a feeling out process.

Speaker 5 (02:24):
Really.

Speaker 4 (02:25):
I think we'll see a lot of motions early on
in these these formations and snap pre snap looks are
going to look different than what they did with Mike McCarthy.
But when it comes to play calling it's kind of
all up in the air now for Brian Schottenheimer. He's
got a great staff underneath them. A lot of people
around here and around the NFL have have very much

(02:45):
so been excited about what Schottenheimer has added from a
staff and a coaching standpoint. It's just whether or not
it's going to turn into success when it comes to
play calling on the field as well.

Speaker 2 (02:56):
Now, we should probably keep it with the staff since
you just brought up that, and Matt Abralflous is now
the defensive coordinator and we know of his reputation. We
know of what he's done in that role before. It
didn't work out great as a head coach in Chicago.
But what does he want to do to tinker with
this defensive unit.

Speaker 4 (03:15):
He wants to rebuild the success of the front seven,
and it starts with his linebackers. And they've made a
couple of additions throughout the offseason. Guys like Kenneth Murray Junior.
They traded for him, made a quick swap of draft
picks in draft capital to bring him here from Tennessee
after he had one hundred plus tackles two years ago
with the Titans. He brings in a guy like Jack

(03:38):
Samborne who played with him in Chicago. And then he adds,
of course, the talent of Demarve and Overshown, who should
be ready about midway through this regular season. And then
the recent editions of guys like the Bone Clark and
things of the sort at the linebacker position. So I
think he wants to rebuild what the front seven was

(03:59):
when he was the linebackers coach in Dallas. Of course,
with Dan Quinn and Mike Zimmer of these last four
seasons combined between the two as a defensive coordinator. It's
been all about the edge rushers and possibly trying to
turn it into turnovers, especially on the secondary side of things.
So I think it takes that outside in mentality and

(04:21):
now it changes it to an inside out mentality for
Matt Eberflus, which is a little bit different than what
we've seen with Dan Quinn and Mike Zimmer. But expect
a lot more out of the three technique guys like
Osa Adighizua, who was re signed to a four year
contract extension this offseason. He's going to have a huge
part of this defense. And then those linebackers that I mentioned.

(04:42):
That's a big key for Eberflus to turn things around
in a place that he's comfortable with. And remember he
was a linebackers coach here under Jason Garrett for a
couple of years, has been on this stat before. Now
he returns as the defensive coordinator and he's already off
to a good start throughout the offseason.

Speaker 5 (04:57):
Well, Kyle, I think we know what Dak Prescott is.

Speaker 6 (05:00):
He looks healthy and I'm not even gonna ask you
about him because I think we got I think he's
a given, but we know and I'm I'm sure you're
happy about that, because I'm sure you're tired of the
Dak Prescott.

Speaker 4 (05:08):
Here're the first one ever to say I'm not gonna
ask about Dak Prescott period.

Speaker 6 (05:12):
But I do think his performance is very much impacted
by what's going on around him. And that's like that
for all quarterbacks, but I think he especially so I
want to start the offensive line first. And for the
first time, we do an exercise every year we rank
each position group in the NFC East team by team,
And for the first time in my memory, I think
I might have had the Cowboys offensive line is as
the third or fourth best group in the division. And

(05:34):
that's not something we're used to doing, usually one or
two with the Eagles. Right, it's young. They've a bunch
of guys that I like coming out of these drafts
that are young and talented. How do you see it
start coming together? Should we expect to jump from Tyler
getting in year two? How does Tyler Booker look early?
Is Terren Steele going to continue to get better another
year off? That acl just tell me what's going on

(05:54):
with this offensive line group?

Speaker 4 (05:56):
No, and I think you're right to rank them third
or four. That's of all men, because there is a
lot of unproven. But that unproven side is because of
the youth. You've got a second year center, You've got
a guy in Tyler Smith who's really the core of
your offensive line, who's been incredible since he was drafted
back in twenty twenty two. That's solidified. Everything else is

(06:16):
kind of a question. A rookie at right guard, Tarrence
Steele hasn't looked the same at right tackle as of lady,
even though he's the veteran of the group. He may
be the biggest question on that offensive line at the moment.
And then, of course a second, second year, first round
pick and Tyler Geydon on the other side, that you
don't really have a whole lot of backbone to send

(06:38):
to or to send film to from what he did
as a rookie. So I really do think there's a
lot of unproven now that youth can turn into something,
and I think there's a lot of hope around that
youth and how that talent will piece together. I'll start
with the tackles because I really I'm very confident in
Tyler Booker. I think he looks great so far. We

(06:58):
haven't put pads on yet, but he checked every box
to this point. I think he's going to be about
as ready as any rookie to play a starting offensive
line role for seventeen games as you possibly could be
going from Alabama to the NFL. He certainly has everything
that it takes to be there. I have no questions
about Cooper bb at center, and then I just mentioned
just how much I love seeing Tyler Smith healthy in

(07:21):
that guard. As long as those three stay healthy, Dallas
is very confident in the interior, which is a good
thing in the division with as much talent on the
defensive tackle side that Philadelphia has that Washington has. And
then of course, you guys know what the Giants bring
to the table at defensive tackle as well. But these
tackles outside are the questions. Terrence Steele veteran guy. I

(07:42):
think this coaching staff, guys like Clayton Adams, who was
an offensive line guru at Arizona, one of the best
up and coming coaches in the NFL, a huge offensive
line background, especially when trying to develop tackles. He's going
to have a huge impact on Tarrence Steele as the
offensive coordinator. And then he's got Connor Riley to also

(08:02):
help things out. I think this scheme that Brian Schottenheimer
will bring to the table is going to benefit Terrence
Steel maybe more than any other returning member of the
starting eleven on offense for this Cowboys team. I think
Steele is going to benefit on the other side for
Tyler Geid And it's all about staying healthy and remaining
durable throughout the season. He was in and out of
the lineup in training camp that transitioned into the regular season.

(08:26):
He was in and out of the lineup there, and
even when he was in the lineup, it was spotty
play and inconsistencies where there were flashes of greatness and
why the Cowboys took him in the first round at
the twenty ninth overall pick in twenty twenty four, it
didn't necessarily piece together the way that they wanted it to.
He's changed his diet, he's changed his workout regiment, He's
changed his routine this offseason. He looks fantastic going into

(08:50):
training camp. Maybe if I had a list of top
three guys that are looking the best compared to what
they did in twenty four, he would be at the
top of that list. He looks incredible so I think
you're going to see a jump from Tyler Guiden. There's
a lot of fundamental and technical aspects of his game
that still have to take a step forward. But I
think Yiton will be better and I think Steve will

(09:11):
be better. I agree with you raking them third right now,
but it wouldn't shock me by the end of the
year if they sneak up into the number two spot
and then start knocking on the door for the next
couple of years to come for the number one spot.

Speaker 5 (09:24):
Well kindly, if.

Speaker 2 (09:25):
The offensive line is a wait and see proposition this year,
the way you have described it, it seems to me
there's no doubt that the Achilles is that running corps
that did not do very well last season. Dravonte Williams
has come in, Miles Sanders has come in. Those guys
have done some things on their resume. What are we
looking at a backfield by committee with Dallas trying to

(09:46):
get the most they can out of those guys and
a couple of young, unproven fellas, or are they really
hoping that a guy like Sanders can suddenly become another
thousand yard back like he was in Philly a couple
of years ago.

Speaker 4 (09:58):
I think you answered it right now. I think it's
a couple of veterans and a couple of rookies. You've
got Phil MafA and Jaden Blue that the Cowboys drafted
on Day three of this year's NFL Draft. Those are
the two rookies. The two veterans, Davonte Williams and Miles Sanders.
It's gonna be those four guys battling it out going
into training camp. Nobody is safe. Nobody has promised anything,

(10:20):
so they hope that somebody will emerge out of that group.
Will they emerge? I don't see it. I see this
as a running back by committee and a very true
approach to it. I'm concerned about the run game because
they weren't able to run the ball effectively last year.
Rico Daddle eclipsed a thousand yards, but even at times
he struggled in short yardage situations. He had a couple

(10:41):
fumbles and big time moments. There were problems with this
run game last year. Part of that stemmed from the
offensive line rotation, some of the injuries up front. But
I don't necessarily have any more confidence in the running
back group this year than I did at any point
last year either, and I think they, if anything, took
step back this offseason when it came to running the football.

(11:03):
So for me, it's will one of these rookies elevate enough,
or will one of these veterans take over a bell
cow two or three down back role. I don't see
it from anybody other than Javonte Williams. He's the guy
that I think would if he had the best shot,
or out of those four guys, he has the best
shot to take a step forward. I think Williams has

(11:25):
done it in Denver. He's carried a workload like that
before throughout his NFL career, and he's still young enough
to where you can still have something left in the
tank to carry an offense in a ground game throughout
the year. But I think as the year goes on,
you're going to see guys like Jaden Blue, who has
a home run hitting type of ability. He's just not
ready to take on that workload quite yet. Coming from Texas,

(11:47):
he showed it at times, the acceleration, the speed, the
closing end of it. He's got all of those elements
to it. He needs to take a step forward in
pass protection. He needs to take a step forward as
a pass catcher out of the back field, and then
we might be able to see Blue more and more
as the year goes along. But I think it's Williams
followed by a group of guys and they're going to

(12:08):
have to mix and match where they see fit.

Speaker 6 (12:10):
Last one for me in the offense, Kyle George Pickens,
how do they think he's going to open up this
offense having a deep threat across from Ceedee Lamb? And
do they think they can manage his personality and maybe
some of the immaturity to the point where he could
be a long term solution across from Lamb for a
long period of time.

Speaker 4 (12:30):
I think that's the goal, at least at the moment.
You look at him going into a rookie contract, and
I think Pickens has no choice but to come in
and have a positive mindset. And it seems like that
at the moment. The conversations I've had with him, the
conversations within the building, the way that he's connected with

(12:52):
Ceedee Lamb and Dak Prescott, all of these things look great.
But as the season goes on and it gets into
the wear and tear of a campaign, we've seen what
happened during his time in Pittsburgh. He can't afford to
do that in Dallas because a black mark on your
resume at some point through one organization is only one thing.
But if he has two marks against his resume on

(13:15):
his from two different organizations, ones that are for the
most part respected throughout the NFL, it's going to really
hurt his chances to sign a bigger deal going into
his second contract in the NFL. So he has a
chance to make a lot of money, he has the
chance to lose a lot of money. I think he'll
be fine from a behavioral standpoint, and he's been nothing

(13:35):
but great so far. But again, we're not playing games yet.
They're not losing games yet. He's not having targets taken
away from him at any point yet. All of those
things have yet to come to fruition. From an Ex's
and Oh's standpoint, I think he fits perfectly with Cede
Lambs CDs that and you guys have seen CD twice
a year for the last five years now. The fact

(13:55):
that he can get underneath the defense the yards after
the catch, he can have some contested ball catch ability,
but really that's not his game. They want to get
him in space, and they want to allow him and
his athleticism to take over, whereas George Pickens is quite
the opposite. Go up and get it, go and out
run a guy, go deep downfield and catch the scene,
catch those deep verticals. There's a lot of things that

(14:17):
George Pickens can do that Cedee Lamb can't do, and
vice versa. And I think that's where the marriage is
going to actually work out. And it gives Dak Prescott
probably the best past catching corps, at least guys that
are in their prime, that are consistent in what they do.
It gives Dak Prescott a real big confidence boost for
who he's throwing a football.

Speaker 2 (14:37):
Took Let's flip it the defense saying on behalf of
Giants fans everywhere, thank you for allowing the Marcus Lawrence.

Speaker 4 (14:44):
To go to Seattle. Okay, let's just get that out
of the way.

Speaker 2 (14:49):
Dote Fowler comes back, a guy who has been up
and down throughout his career. How important is his pass
rush going to be? Because besides Parson, they lose the
Lawrence is a big bite out of what they've done
in the past. Getting to the quarterback.

Speaker 4 (15:06):
Yeah, you know, Paul. I love that the law always
had some success against the giants, and then you bring
in a guy like Dante Faller Junior who had success
as a cowboy and as a commander, so still something
to keep an eye on. I think Fowler is crucial
for the development and the depth of this edge rusher group.

(15:26):
There's a lot of guys they really like that either
haven't developed yet or are young enough to where they
still see them developing in the future, most notably Sam
Williams and Donovan Azraroku. As Roku was a second round
draft pick this offseason, and then Sam Williams was a
former second round pick who just hasn't clicked yet on
this edge rusher staff. I think Dante Valler Junior brings

(15:49):
a mentor element. Now that he's away from dan Quinn,
he can kind of do his own thing again. He
had a great double digit SAT season last year. If
he's able to piece together then even have to be
double digit sacks, it can be six seven sacks and
pressures throughout the year. That's going to open up things
for Micah Parsons. On the opposite side, it's going to
open up things for Donovan Azraku who can learn from him.

(16:11):
He's already been very complimentary, as Roku has of the
leadership ability of Fowler and some of these other veterans
in the edge rusher group. So I think bringing back
Dante Fowler was really an underrated signing from Dallas this
offseason in the free agent market. Cowboys fans just kind
of know him as the rotational edge rusher that we've

(16:32):
seen here in the past. He's kind of turned more
into or turned into more than that over the last
two or three seasons. And I think we saw that
at the Washington Commander's side of things last year when
he had double digit sacks with Dan Quinn out there.

Speaker 6 (16:46):
Then they and Moreshawn neland to their second round pick
last year, I know they have highlight another one.

Speaker 5 (16:50):
Yeah, yeah, I'll.

Speaker 6 (16:51):
Let to pull as one more about the secondary real quick.
We only got about three minutes to go here, Kyle.
It wouldn't be a Cowboys offseason without questions about a
big money contract from one of their superstars.

Speaker 5 (17:01):
Should we just expect this?

Speaker 6 (17:02):
Michael Parson seems to go exactly like all these other
ones have gone. So we're sending here on what August
like twenty third and we hear about him becoming the
highest paid edge rusher on football.

Speaker 5 (17:11):
Is that how this is gonna go.

Speaker 3 (17:13):
Yeah.

Speaker 4 (17:13):
I really think it's getting closer and closer to that.
And it's funny because I can compare him to all
those other big money contracts that we've seen in the past.
Is this gonna be Zach Martin where he's holding out
multiple weeks in the camp, shows up halfway through, and
then he's good and he's ramped up for the season.
Is it gonna be Ceedee Lamb where he goes right
up until the end of camp and he's not around,
he's nowhere near, and then here he is and he's

(17:36):
the highest paid pass catcher in football. Is he gonna
be a Trayvon Diggs where we get to Oxnard, California,
get ready for training camp, and he sits down and
signs in the hotel room before the first practice even happens.
I tend to trend toward Trayvon. I am optimistic that
it does get done before training camp practice. Micah wants

(17:57):
to be out there. His party wants him to be
out there, coaches want him to be out there. The
front office, of course, would love to get a deal done.
They just haven't done so yet, So you're right, it's
part for the course. We've seen it every year. It
feels like in Dallas a bit money contract coming down
to the wire. I tend to think the framework is
somewhat in place, and I think a deal will be

(18:19):
done sooner rather than later. It may take a practice
or two, but I still think it's trending toward the
earlier part of training camp. In my opinion, I've been
wrong before. This is not reporting anything that hasn't been
reported already, but it is something that I see going
into the training camp regiment. I think just all of
the elements play together. I think he'll be out there

(18:41):
in a couple practices for sure.

Speaker 2 (18:43):
All right to put a bow tie on this, Kyle.
A lot of familiar names out there in the secondary.
You already mentioned Diggs just a few moments ago. There's
a perception that it's been a feast of famine gambling
type secondary for the last several years. And when they
get those turnovers, it's a huge plus. What does Zebra
Flu's gonna ask from this secondary? Doesn't question be more

(19:03):
steady and conservative?

Speaker 4 (19:05):
I think he does. I think we're gonna see less
of the risk and more of the coverage than we've
seen in the past. Because you're right, Deron Blain Trayvon Diggs,
they both had tremendous seasons and it's helped to blow
up their career in a good way through their time
here in Dallas. But it's also helped to blow up
some coverages at times as well. Throughout the big play

(19:28):
elements the run game. I mean, all of these things
are expected to change. I think with Eberflus, like I
said earlier, that inside out approach, he wants to be
steady and aggressive rushing from the interior, rushing from the
linebacker corps, being steady as a linebacker corps, and steady
as a secondary and that's going to help the safeties
out a lot. Malie Cooker and Donovan Wilson both return.

(19:51):
I think you're gonna see Trayvon Diggs play more in coverage,
better in coverage than he has in the past because
he's not going to be looking for those interceptions the
same way that he has in the past. Now doesn't
mean that they won't come along those I think Trayvon
Diggs hasn't those for the football. The same thing with
Deron Bland. I still think they'll come across their interceptions

(20:11):
and their big time plays, but I don't think they'll
be seeking them out the same way that they did
under Dan Quinn and under Mike Zimmer at times last
year as well.

Speaker 5 (20:19):
When do you expect to see Digs back on the
field real quick?

Speaker 4 (20:22):
I think it'll be closer to week one, two or three.
It's gonna be that first month of the regular season.

Speaker 5 (20:26):
Oh wow.

Speaker 4 (20:27):
I don't think they're going to put him on reserve
pupp I think he'll be on the active pup throughout
training camp, so that way he can work on bands
and be around it. And then once we get closer
to the season, that's when they're gonna have to make
a choice one way or the other. Because it hasn't
even been a full ten months since the injury was sustained,

(20:47):
I think they're a good chance. He'll probably be either
very limited or non exist in a training camp on
the field, but he'll be involved in the meetings and
be able to play within the first couple of weeks
of the regular season.

Speaker 5 (21:00):
He didn't retear the acl right that.

Speaker 4 (21:05):
It was or oh yes it was. I think it
was a true torn al. It's been a long time
since another one. Okay, so yeah, he's He's consistently been
in the rehab process. He's been around the building a
little bit, but not a not a super Remember it
took a little bit longer the first time for him
to come back too, so it's a little bit longer
this time around, I think just because it's another one

(21:27):
and another thing.

Speaker 7 (21:28):
To deal with.

Speaker 5 (21:29):
Kyle, good stuff, my friend. Anything you want to plug
before we let you go, No.

Speaker 4 (21:33):
I think you guys do a great job as well.
I mean, we've got our Cowboys content on dallascowboys dot
com Cowboys now app I know the listenership from New
York Giants Country probably won't be super interested in that
unless they're looking behind it, I mean, not lines at
certain points. But if you ever want to come on by,
we welcome anybody to come and watch them Cowboys cover.

Speaker 6 (21:52):
I always joke the only people that do more podcasts
than we do with the Cowboys, so we're happy to
that's true.

Speaker 5 (21:58):
I appreciate the time Kyle, well his.

Speaker 4 (22:00):
I appreciate it. John, thanks Paul, thanks for having me, guys.

Speaker 5 (22:03):
Thank Kyle Yeomens for joining us right here.

Speaker 6 (22:05):
On Big Blue Kigoff Live presented by Kady, the official
luxury vehicle of the Giants. We're here in the Hackensack
and Britney Hell podcast udio keep getting better and.

Speaker 5 (22:12):
Now we walk him in.

Speaker 6 (22:13):
Ryan Fowler, who does a great job covering the Washington Commanders,
has the podcast Ryan tell Us, whereverybody can find your
great work covering the team in our nation's capital.

Speaker 3 (22:22):
Absolutely. Yeah, if you don't follow me, there a radio
next underscore Ryan Fowler and my podcast, as John mentioned,
is commanding the Huddle and has on all podcast platforms.

Speaker 6 (22:30):
All right, so let's start with kind of the news
of the day here or news of yesterday. Maybe this
is airing on Thursday. What's going on with Terry McLaurin.

Speaker 3 (22:40):
Yeah, look, it's it's unfortunate, guys, bottom line, what's going
on with Terry McLaurin. As far as who the individual
is off the field, that is Terry, you know, the
leader that he has been for a long time and
what he was in the prior regime with obviously under
Dan Snyder, which was a complete mess out there in Washington.
But you finally get the young man at quarterback. You know,
he breaks a single season record last year for touchdowns
at the wide opposition, and now he has no content

(23:00):
and now it's threatening kind of is he gonna be
here in twenty twenty five? Is see someone that's gonna
potentially sit out in camp? I do think, guys, it
does get done. Is that in the next few days.
I don't think so. I think potentially moving the first
day or two or three of camp, and Terry McLaurin
is just not out there now. I will say this,
He is the type of individual that doesn't want to
sit back and not be out there with his teammates.
He wants to consistently work, and he wants to consistently

(23:22):
build on what they had last year, on what he's
been for this organization for a long long time, and eventually,
hopefully this organization hopes, you know, they can retire his
number seventeen up there in the rafters someday. But I
do think it gets done. I just don't know if
it's gonna be the next two three days. But it
is an unfortunate situation considering Washington obviously finally found their
quarterback and the number one receiver to go with it.

Speaker 2 (23:43):
You know what, Ryan, I get that McLaurin is a
superstar at Deebo Samuel is a superstar player as well,
but they're totally different styles of player. And so if
McLaurin does wind up not playing in that first game
against the Giants, we all know that's the season opener.
What are we looking at in this receiver corps because
it seems to me that after Deebo Samuel, who they

(24:05):
just got from San Francisco, the rest of that depth
chart is very sketchy.

Speaker 3 (24:10):
Yeah, Paul, it's a great point. You know, they drafted
Luke McCaffrey last year for a reason. They're hoping he
takes a step this year. And they also drafted a
similar ish type of player to Deebo Samuel in Jalen
Lane from Virginia Tech this year as well. So they're
hoping those two young players can take a step if
Terry won't be out there. But I'm right there with you.
Because Noah Brown has had issues all of OTA's Michael
Gallup is still injured. They're trying to pull some strings

(24:32):
out of him if he could be a wide receiver
four or five for this roster, and very quickly, Deebo
Samuel's your wide receiver one, but they wanted him to
be in that kind of that Z type of player
on this offense, where he's in the backfield, he's in
the slot, he's in pre snap motion. He's going to
be that versatile type of piece. Or he's even gonna
help the running game a little bit, because the run
game bottom line, I don't know if they made enough
additions at the running back room. I know Jacorey Krofsky Merritt,

(24:55):
the seventh rounder, is going to be a story of
the offseason. But out wide, if you have no McLaurin,
you're looking at the kJ Osborne's, Noah Brown's, and some
of the guys I mentioned the young pieces to really
step up in this group. But I will say this, guys,
with Jayden Daniels under center, and the guys he made
it work with last year, like Diami Brown, alaal Madesa
Kias and Zach Ertz who's still pulling strings out of

(25:15):
his career, you're gonna have a chance when he's under center,
and he proved that all year last year.

Speaker 6 (25:19):
You know why, when we did a bunch of previous
stuff with you last year, you were much more positive
about this Commander's team than most anyone else on the
national landscape.

Speaker 4 (25:27):
And you hit it.

Speaker 6 (25:27):
I mean, I mean, I don't think you thought they
would be going to the NFC Championship game. But they
played really, really well and a lot of that. Dude,
the quarterback you mentioned Jade and Daniels, So take me
through his rookie year. Why was he able to have
so much success so early? And what do you think
are the danger points here that you need to keep
an eye So who doesn't have a letdown second year

(25:47):
the way CJ. Stroud did after having a similar rookie
year of the way Jayden and Daniels had.

Speaker 3 (25:52):
Yeah, I think one thing that's great time. I credit
Adam Peters for this. Obviously, the GM in Washington is
boosting up that front five. You know, you bring in
lermiy Tunsel, you spent high Capitol and Josh Connery, Brandon
Coleman slides on a natural spot at guards. So you're
building up the front five to battle the guys like
Dexter Lawrence and the guys you guys have in New
York and obviously Philly, and of course Michael Parson is
down there in Dallas. But when you look at what

(26:12):
Jayden Daniels did so well last year. Really the first
two to three weeks of the season, even if you
watched the first week against Tampa Bay, everything was very
horizontal and the training wheels were really on this offense.
But Cliff Kingsbury looked at this young man, say, look,
we got to let this kid just put the training
wheels off and just let him go take the reins
of this offense, whether he needs to win with his
arm or he needs to win with his legs. And

(26:32):
that's what made him so darn special. And I think
the biggest thing for me is if you're a quarterback
that's so young and you can win inside the pocket
to where you can win between the years before you
ever have to showcase that four three four four speed
that he has on the outside or expand the pocket
a little bit and then make Sandlot plays downfield, which
he obviously did so well last year. And why he's
getting these comparisons now to the Josh Allens and Lamar

(26:54):
Jackson's of the world outside the pocket, But really he
just got better and better and better as the season
went on. It didn't matter who in the world was
on the outside. And now taking that next step, because
I think the biggest thing guys this year is Jaden Daniels.
This entire commander's roster. They are not sneaking up on anybody.
They don't have a single one o'clock game in October
or November. That is a national type of schedule. The

(27:17):
NFL saying, look, wow, we want you, guys, this is
your platform showcase yourself to be. Are you going to
be an elite team for the next ten years or
was twenty twenty four over a flash in the pan? Obviously,
Dan Quinning Company hopes that it's continuing here in twenty
twenty five and beyond.

Speaker 2 (27:32):
Let's go to that running game you alluded to a
little while ago and then kind of glossed it over.
And Ryan, I think it's significant because to me, Ekler
looked like he started to get old last season. Robinson
to me, is not a bell cow back. He's got
to be part of a committee situation. And I'm not
sure what McNichols is.

Speaker 3 (27:51):
Yeah, and Chris Rodriguez is still there too. They're hoping
to like he can be a guy that's maybe a
third down back. You know, look, guys, I think that
they were supposed to be a team that in the
first first day, maybe it was an Maury and Hampton
or they really liked an RJ. Harvey or Caleb Johnson.
They didn't go that out obviously, And I'm right there
with you. I do not think Brian Robinson is a
bell cout. Jeremy McNichols is a guy that's bounced around
the league a little bit and had some sparks last year.

(28:13):
More so because Jaden got the attention as a guy
with his legs, they need somebody in the backfield, bottom
line that can take the pressure off of Jaden Daniels
under center and create his own holes inside the tackles
or outside the tackles. Because all teams in football, if
you throw it really well, at some point you're gonna
have to run the football, especially as you guys know
in the NFC East, when it starts getting colder a

(28:34):
little bit, when we get to December and January, you're
gonna have to run the football. So I think right now,
I hate to say this for other Commanders people that
are watching this out there, but Jarey Krofsky merrit the
seventh rounder out of Arizona that didn't even play for
the Wildcats last year because of a waiver issue. He
is bottom line, they're fundamentally most talented runner on the roster,

(28:54):
and I would not be shocked if he makes the
roster this year. Is not just wearing a jersey, but
also has an impact.

Speaker 6 (29:00):
He was the best running back down at the Shrine
Game this year. I believe he had a classification issue
at Arizona. Was that his issue if I remember correctly right, Yes,
he did.

Speaker 5 (29:10):
Yeah.

Speaker 6 (29:11):
It was similar Paul to what we had with the
Turbo here where he kind of went there. They thought
he had a year left and he didn't and he
couldn't play.

Speaker 5 (29:17):
But yeah, he was fast.

Speaker 6 (29:18):
He was very impressive down at the Shrine Bowl. All right,
Final one on the offense here, Ryan, before we go
to the defense, where I think we have some more
questions than answers. If there's something this year, and this
is similar to what I asked about Daniel specifically that
could cause his offense to take a step back compared
to what it did last year, what would you be
keeping an eye on that maybe has you a little

(29:40):
bit concerned when you take a look at this group
and a hole heading into year or two with Quinn Quinn,
Jaden Daniels, and of course Click Kingsbury.

Speaker 3 (29:49):
Yeah, guys, I think it's the interior of this offensive line.
You know, you're bringing in Coleman from left tackle to
left guard, You're switching Andrew Wiley from right tackle to
right guard. Before Sam Cosmy comes back from injury, they're
hoping he's held healthy. From what I've heard, his timeline
is getting a little bit accelerated, but he is going
to likely miss the first six to eight weeks potentially
of this twenty twenty five. So as of right now,

(30:10):
this run game in the middle, you know, trying to
create holes in those one, two, three four holes up
the middle where you got to be able to create
creases against the Dexter Lawrence's dealing quarters of the world.
It's not going to be easy. And sitting back there
and dropping back forty times a game, you're trying to
keep your really your Lamborghini, if you will, under center,
and Jayden Daniels staring at the defense, not staring up
at the clouds on his backside. So I think, if anything,

(30:31):
that's going to limit this offense this year for potentially
being a top two or three offense this year and
reaching their potential is going to be the ground game
and trying to put everything on number five under center.

Speaker 2 (30:41):
They wound up getting a double digit sack here out
of Dante Fowler last season, Ryan, as you're well aware.
But now he's back in Dallas. Where's the bulk of
this pass rush coming from?

Speaker 3 (30:52):
Their best pass strusher on this roster guys is inside linebacker.
That's their best pass thrusher, and that's a major, major concern.
I thought they were going to go there early on
Day two to grab a potential player in the deep
class that this was. And look, Dallas got a heck
of player and Donovanessa Rock who obviously know the names
in Philadelphia, and you guys know who in the world
Abdul Carter is and the players you guys have rushing

(31:12):
off the edge. But this group right now, Daurreance Armstrong,
Cleveland Ferrell has been a guy that's been two years
away from being two years away since he came out
of Clemson years ago as a first rounder for Vegas.
Out there, Javonte Jean Baptiste is a second year player.
I'm reaching for names here. A lot of guys listening
to this don't know who those guys are. And that's
okay because frank you Louvu is the best pass rusher
now with that Jordan McGee, second year player from Temple,

(31:35):
they really didn't see too much in his rookie season.
He's going to be asked to play alongside Bobby Wagner
lot and allow Frankie to get down near the line
of scrimmage. But they're going to ask a lot of
him and their guys. Their pass rush is going to
rely on the interior this year. Deron Payin and Johnny
Newton are going to be their guys are gonna be
asked to really start this thing from the interior, and
guys in the outside, specifically Drance Armstrong, are gonna have

(31:56):
to step up this year. It's gonna be a long,
long day for this defense.

Speaker 5 (31:59):
Yea Ryan, I've gotta be honest with you.

Speaker 6 (32:01):
I'm a little confused with the way Washington went about
their offseason. I understand you want to build around your
star quarterback, so I get that part of the theory, right.

Speaker 5 (32:09):
That makes sense. But to me, the weakness of this
team and.

Speaker 6 (32:12):
The reason you guys lost to the Eagles in the
NFC title game was that your defense couldn't stop anyone,
and talent wise, I thought it was deficient and I
don't think it got that much better from a talent
perspective over the course of the offseason. I know you
had a Marshaw Lattimore ley last year. He has all
sorts of injury issues. Who knows how much he can
stay on the field. Where do you think this defensive

(32:35):
anywhere has the potential being much better this year than
it was last year.

Speaker 3 (32:40):
Yeah, there's two major questions. It's really in the secondary.
You just mentioned Marshall Lattimore. You know they brought him
in from New Orleans to stop you know, the Malik neighbors,
CD lamb Aja Brown, Devont dismiss of the world and
bottom line, guys, you guys watch the same tape I did.
It flat out was not good enough for Marshall Attimore
and for myself heading into this year, I cannot sit
here and say Marshall Attimore looks like a top ten, fifteen,
top twenty corner.

Speaker 5 (33:00):
I mean he got benched right in the playoff game
against Valley.

Speaker 3 (33:03):
The first half against Tampa Bay against Mike Evans was
absolutely abysmal from Marshawn. So they drafted Jay Amos early
on Day two from Ole Miss. They're expecting him to
be a guy that potentially is their CV one. But
very quickly, guys, if Marshaun Lottimore doesn't play up to expectation,
you're once again asking Mikey Sanders, still at a heck
of a rookie year, to bump to the outside. And

(33:24):
then you have Jonathan Jones knowing Igbinoghany as your CB three,
CB four, where do they play? And very quickly it
can get bad, especially as we just talked about, if
you're not able to get after the passer. And I
love Bobby Wagner, think we all do one of the
best ever do in the middle, but he's not twenty
five years old anymore, and he's not thirty years anymore.
So there is a deficiency in talent and they have
to get after people because they can't win every single

(33:46):
game fifty five to fifty.

Speaker 2 (33:48):
Well that's the really the other question I wanted to
ask you, Ryan, because it seems like Bobby Wagner is
the new London Fletcher right he wants to play forever.
I don't know is he going to be able to
give them another seven team game schedule playing three downs.
I don't know that that's in the cards.

Speaker 3 (34:04):
Yeah, Paul, it's a great question, you know, and I
agree with you. The London Fletcher stuff. I think London
had a little bit more juice downhill than Bobby does.
Not any disrespect to Bobby and what he's done, but
he's a throwback type of player. Guys, right in the
middle of a defense, you know, he sees modern backers
at two hundred and twenty five thirty pounds that can
really drop their hips and flipping coverage. Bobby Wagners see it,
diagnose it and move downhill. And you guys mentioned the

(34:25):
Philadelphia game where they got blown out. Everybody you know,
when their father and their mother knew that Saquon Barkley
was going to get the ball and he scored in
his first two touches in that ballgame. That flat out
cannot happen. So they have to improve.

Speaker 4 (34:36):
They have players.

Speaker 3 (34:37):
I think they've added some depth at certain positions. Javon
kim Law up front was their biggest free agency edition.
They brought a thumper on the back end and Will Harris.
It's not a Javon Holland like you guys have in
New York. But they have some players that they hope
accelerate their timeline as far as performance ceiling or maybe
a long year for Joe witz Unit.

Speaker 6 (34:53):
You know you just mentioned Javon Kinlaw. You did not
mention him when you talked about the pass rushers. A
defensive tackle with pain In Newton and Kimlall was one
of their bigger free agent additions on the defensive side
of the ball. Was this year general manager reliving his
like San Francisco forty nine or days because he I
was surprised by the size of the contract given his
relative inability to stay healthy and lack of production early

(35:16):
in his NFL career.

Speaker 3 (35:17):
Yeah, there's always people out there right that say, I
can fix this guy. I can fix this guy. There's
a reason why Adam Peters is in San Francisco said
I like Javon Kinlaw and made him a first round pick.
Right now, it's either Look, they're gonna give Javon to
have every opportunity to produce alongside Pain and Newton. They're
gonna have some unique looks up front with three down linemen,
two outside backers standing up outside the tackles. But Javon's
gonna be a guy that's gonna be up and down

(35:38):
this front four. I don't know where he's gonna lie
in every single snap, which is great. He's a big, strong,
physical long player, but he's never been that guy to
potentially take over a series or two like they've asked
ofim Deron Payne under the John Allen's of years past.
So it's a humongous, humongous season for Javon And it's
also a big thing on Adam Peters because everyone wants

(35:59):
to say Adam p has done a great job building
this roster, and I credit him. However, he's failed in
some other things when you look at Michael Davis bringing
him on the defensive side of the ball, that Mangel
Forbes experiment, trying to extend what he had. So there's
some questions here as far as what's going on, specifically
on the defensive side of the ball with where this
group's going to go.

Speaker 2 (36:17):
You know, I wanted to bring up Darron Payin for
a minute, because you know, most of the guys who
he played with who were part of a really good
defense aren't around anymore. How is this all going to
impact him. He's getting older and now he's being asked
to take on more of that load on the front line, don't.

Speaker 3 (36:33):
You think, Yeah, he's expected to be. I'm not going
to say an all pro, but I know he's had
a great OTA session this offseason. I've heard really good
things from him in a contract year for Deron. Maybe
he's in the future plans, but when you look at
guys that were around him in the future, where it
was John Allen, you know Faderian mathis they drafted out
of Alabama. No longer there. John Ridgeway was a really
nice rotational piece no longer there. So it's really him

(36:57):
and it's Johnny Newton moving into year two the way
let me look at him. Look, you have to do
everything for us upfront. You're gonna demand double teams, allow
guys and the backers to fill downhill and really do
everything upfront for us. And you're knocking on Wood that
he doesn't miss a game or two or three or four,
And then you're relying on guys like Sheldon Day and
Big Eddie Goldman that they brought up from Chicago, who's
more of that first and ten run gap clogger, not

(37:18):
your modern day one and three tech that can play
all three downs. So again, as we speak to your guys,
you can see all the questions that we have at
all three levels. Even though all the attention is on
the offensive side of the ball, you got to play defense.
And at the end of the day, as we know
guys in sports, defense wins championships.

Speaker 5 (37:33):
And that's true all r Ryan.

Speaker 6 (37:34):
Final question for me, I like to do like fan
base psycho analysis. Here we've seen the Commanders or then
you know Washington football team or prior to that, the
Redskins over the last twenty five years have these kind
of one years right where they come out, they play
really well, the fan base gets out the missing and
the next year everything just.

Speaker 5 (37:53):
And it disappears. How is a fan base feeling heading
into year two.

Speaker 6 (37:58):
Does the new ownership group, new coach Jaden Daniels erase
all of those mental scars of the last you know,
two three decades or is there still something kind of
in the bottom of like these Washington fans souls where
it's like I just don't want the shoe to drop.

Speaker 5 (38:15):
Don't let the shoe drop.

Speaker 3 (38:17):
Yeah, the bad taste is still in the mouth of
a lot of a lot of individuals in the DC
area guys, because like you said, John, you had that
the year of Alex Smith and the Kirk Cousins success
RG three and twenty.

Speaker 5 (38:26):
Two RG three. That's what last year reminded me of
the RG three year.

Speaker 3 (38:30):
To be honest with you, absolutely one year right. So
now with the success that was thirty forty years ago
with Joe the Heisman, Doug Williams, Mark Rippon, that's great.
But now moving into twenty twenty five, where again I
mentioned earlier, nobody, you're not sneaking up on anybody. You
got new jerseys wearing the alternates. This year you're gonna
slowly move into really just exercising the history a little
bit and showcasing that tradition of this franchise that has

(38:51):
been so successful. But this year, you know, is it
making it back to an Nfercy title game? Is that
a success? Is that if you don't make it, there
is there a disappointment? I personally don't think so. I
think you make it to the playoffs this year because
there are still holes there. But John, as you mentioned,
I'm so glad you did. Everyone is so caught up
in the Jayden Daniels MVP stuff and Adam Peters as
this and we have Terry McLaurin and Deebo Samuel and

(39:12):
Larimy Tunzel protecting Jadan Daniels. But behind the scenes, you
take the layers back a little bit. There are holes
on this roster the reason why they're really exceeded expectations
in twenty twenty four. But I will say this, when
you have Jaden Daniels under center, he's proved it time
and time again last year. I know he's only moving
into a second season, you have to see it again.
But going into Detroit, going into Tampa Bay, you take

(39:34):
back the fumbles against Philadelphia. I know that's hard to do,
but you take those back, you give yourself a little
bit of a chance. I just think overall, there are
still holes on this roster that people still need to
look at, specifically on the defensive side of the ball,
that could limit their ceiling here in twenty five, ran.

Speaker 2 (39:48):
Biley for me for a comment, I was only going
to say this. There are optimistic Giants fans who point
to the fact that the Giants gave Washington two very
difficult games last year and that maybe the gap isn't
as wide as some people perceive outside this building. Sounds
like you might kind of agree with them.

Speaker 3 (40:04):
One hundred percent. Paul, I'm glad you mentioned that because
I wanted to talk about the Giants roster. They I
think they have one of the most underrated rosters in
all the football, specifically on the defensive side of the ball.
No one is talking about the New York Giants and
what they have and the additions that they made, specifically
Big Boy up front and Darius Alexander, Paulson, Adebo Javon
Holland on the back end. I love me cut some
Kam Scattaboo. I think he gets this narrative of oh,

(40:25):
just in between the tackles downhill, the guy's visions outstanding.
He'll do everything for you. You have them Leak neighbors
who hopefully gets healthy sooner rather than later. Russell Wilson
is see the future. No, I like Jackson Dark. There's
a lot of talent guys on this roster, specifically on
the defensive side of the ball, where Abdul Carter I
think is a future defensive Player of the Year, paired
with the guys you already have. No one is talking

(40:45):
about New York. I will as the season gets going,
because I think they're a team that could surprise the
people this year.

Speaker 5 (40:51):
Ryan, good stuff, my friend. Once again, tell the Fosts
that they can find all your stuff.

Speaker 3 (40:54):
Absolutely again, ar next we youn'll follow me. They're already underscore.
Ryan Fowler and my podcast commanding the Huddle on all
podcast platforms.

Speaker 6 (41:01):
That's Ryan Fower. Thanks so much for joining us. Man,
good to see it. We'll talk to you soon, you.

Speaker 7 (41:05):
Too, Thanks Ryan.

Speaker 5 (41:06):
We thank Ryan Fowler for joining us.

Speaker 6 (41:08):
And now we turn our attention to the fourth team
in the NFC East Super Bowl champion Philadelphia Eagles, and
to preview them, we welcome in front of the program
who covers them for the team site, the one and
only Dave Spizarrow.

Speaker 5 (41:20):
Dave, how you doing Man, Good to see you, to.

Speaker 8 (41:23):
See you, John, thanks for having me and uh, let's
do it man, another season ahead here.

Speaker 6 (41:27):
Yeah, whenever I see your handsome face in July, it
means training camps right around the corner, my friend, and
it's coming fast and furious, and it's funny. I think
back to this conversation we had almost exactly at the
same time last year, and I guess I'll use the word.

Speaker 5 (41:43):
I feel like there was some level of pessimism in
our conversation.

Speaker 6 (41:46):
The Eagles that come off a year where they had
frankly collapsed at the very end of the year, change
both their coordinators. The head coach was obstensibly on the
hot seat. If you talk to certain people in the
media in the Philadelphia area and lo and behold the
year later, you guys are the most talented team in
football and you're coming off with Super Bowl. It's funny
how things work in the NFL, isn't it.

Speaker 7 (42:05):
Yeah, And you know, the word pessimism is a bit strong.

Speaker 8 (42:08):
It was certainly a lot of questions about the Eagles
going into twenty four because of the reasons that you outlined,
and Jalen Hurtz and you know what kind of performance
would he have coming off the big contract and up
and down year in twenty three, Eagles again changing their
coordinators for twenty four. Start out the season two and
two and then you get hot. And there's no greater

(42:31):
example of how momentum is so important in the NFL.
The Eagles went on to win sixteen in their last
seventeen games, blowing teams out. Young players really stepping up.

Speaker 7 (42:42):
It was it was John.

Speaker 8 (42:45):
This team's been in three Super Bowls in the last year,
in the last eight years, and that team was it
was like seventeen.

Speaker 7 (42:52):
Which is something.

Speaker 8 (42:53):
Really really special about the Philadelphia Eagles. And they got
a couple of breaks along the way, including watch Washington
beating Detroit in the playoffs bringing the NFC Championship game
home to Philadelphia. So a dominant football team. But I think, look,
we have been around long enough to know that the
past is the past. And one thing that's always in

(43:14):
the back of your mind is that we have not
had a repeat winner in the NFC East since two
thousand and three, two thousand and four.

Speaker 7 (43:20):
And as good as the Eagles look.

Speaker 8 (43:22):
And certainly as good as they were last year, I'm
not sure that means anything heading into twenty five.

Speaker 6 (43:28):
No, everything, It's a year to year league. That is
absolutely correct, Dave, I'm with you, all right. I'll ask
one question about this because I don't want Giant fans
to throw tomatoes at me.

Speaker 5 (43:36):
How did Saquon Barkley up transform the Eagles offense?

Speaker 8 (43:39):
Go absolutely change the whole dynamic of the offense and
it became a run based offense. Now, when your running
back is breaking off sixty yard touchdown runs at a
clip that he did seven last season, it's a home
run threat in the backfield. But there's no question that
the offense evolved into a you know, defenses kym in

(44:00):
saying we've got to stop Saquon Barkley first. That clearly
opened up things in the NFC Championship game and in
the Super Bowl. Had all the pieces around him. You know,
everybody in New York knows what a talented player he is,
what a great performer he is, how prepared he is
for the seasons. It was a dream season. And I know,
as much as it pains New York Giants fans, if

(44:21):
you loved Saquon Barkley and you know, you respect him
as a person, there's got to be just a little
bit of happiness for what he was able to accomplish.
Because he still speaks very fondly of his time with
the Giants and the fans, in the organization, and but
just everything came together for him perfectly last year.

Speaker 7 (44:36):
Yeah.

Speaker 6 (44:36):
Look, he's a good dude, And look we talked about
this last year. I maintain it he would never have
put up a season like he did with the Eagles
last year. If he had stayed with the Giants, it
was a perfect situation for him, and I think it.
You know, I'm sure the Giants fans would still love
to have him here, but there was a good reason
why the Giants decided not to pay that money to
a running back given where they were, And it made
a lot of sense for the Eagles to pay a
running back that type of money given where they were.

(44:58):
So I think a lot of it made and that
kind of comes into the infrastructure that he walked into, right,
And you guys still have probably now, especially after Frank
Rygen now retired.

Speaker 5 (45:08):
I would say, Dave the best offensive line of football.

Speaker 6 (45:11):
And you've had to swap a couple, you know, one
piece in and out every year, give or take. But
you guys keep rolling, man, and I don't see any
reason why it's gonna change.

Speaker 8 (45:20):
Yeah, I mean, the offensive line is where it starts,
and it's as talented as it's been.

Speaker 7 (45:23):
The only question mark is right guard.

Speaker 8 (45:26):
And there's a kid who's been starting there in his
first two years at times, Tyler Steen, who's the leading contender.
Jeff Stoutlin has built a stable of young offensive linemen.
They drafted three more this year that they're going to
groom and build for the future. But if you've got
the stable offensive line and the talented offensive line, your
offense is going to be really good and you can
beat teams in a lot of ways. And that's what

(45:47):
the Eagles found out last year that when defenses really
centered their their attack on AJ Brown, Devonte Smith, Dallas Goddard,
Saquon Barkley tore him apart when they tried to saque
the passing game opened up. And it's because you have
a dominant offensive line and John This goes back to
the days of Andy Reid. Even before that, when Eagles

(46:09):
drafted Trey Thomas in nineteen ninety eight, when Randy Moss
was still on the board, it was the first time,
after years and years of a really bad offensive line,
one that the Giants through the eighties and the nineties
just feasted upon, the Eagles finally made the priority the
offensive line. And they have continued that here for twenty
five plus years, and we see what kind of football

(46:32):
team this is at the line of scrimmage offensively.

Speaker 6 (46:34):
It's funny you mentioned that two years ago when the
Giants had I think they gave up all boy, what
was it, almost ninety sacks in the year. And I
had the guys at stats look up which team allowed
the most sacks in a season, and.

Speaker 7 (46:44):
It was Randall Cunningham.

Speaker 6 (46:46):
And I think I think Ron Jaworski was on one
of those Eagles teams. I'd also had a ton of sacks.
So you're right, those Eagles teams in the late eighties,
they give up a lot of sacks.

Speaker 8 (46:54):
Yeah, and it seems so unsexy, right, But when you
watch games, how did your quarterback have a chance? How
does your running back have a chance? You don't if
you don't have an offensive line. So the Eagles have
invested in the line of scrimmage and it's paid off
for them.

Speaker 6 (47:08):
Jalen Harts, did he take a noticeable jump to you
last year, Dave? Or was he the same guy, just
put in better circumstances where he was able to more
take advantage of his skills. And by the way, this
is not me taking anything away from Jalen Hearts, who
plays Listen all the play big spots than Jalalen Herts.
I mean, he's atlest cancer.

Speaker 8 (47:27):
In Eagles fans are in an uproar about the rankings
and oh, how could Jalen Hurts only be the ninth
ranked quarterback in the NFL.

Speaker 7 (47:34):
He's won the Super Bowl? Who cares?

Speaker 8 (47:35):
I mean for Jalen, who's just got that crazy competitor mentality,
it probably means something. But I think where he took
the biggest step forward last year was ball security. In
twenty three, the turnovers were just the killers, and then
early in twenty four the turnovers were very, very concerning,
and then they kind of shifted the priority of the

(47:56):
offense to running the football more and giving Jalen a
chance to kind.

Speaker 7 (48:02):
Of play with the lead, play with the defense on
its heels.

Speaker 8 (48:06):
And he did an excellent job maintaining possession of the
football and John really it wasn't until the NFC Championship
game where Jalen really played his best football. I mean,
there was one game against the Steelers that he had
a really good game. But if you think back to
the NFC Divisional playoff game against the Rams, he was
sacked seven times and Eagles fans were pulling their hair out,

(48:28):
why is he holding onto the football so long? And
in Jalen's mind, it was all about let's not turn
the football over. We've got the number one ranked defense here,
let's make sure that we are playing ball security. So
from an IQ standpoint, plays at a very very high level.
From a skills standpoint, he can clearly do it all,
and he just played within his role. And I think

(48:51):
the example here is that Jalen Hurts understands that he
doesn't have to be the one putting up three hundred
and twenty five yards and four touchdowns for this offense
to be successful and for the Eagles to win. And
if that's a blow to your ego, well so be it,
because what he prioritizes is winning football games. And the
formula worked for the Eagles last year.

Speaker 6 (49:11):
I tried to come up with an interesting question about
your receivers and tight end group, Dave, but it's so
perfectly constructed, I don't know where I could even try
to poke a hole in it. If I was to
construct a group, you have aj Brown the big, physical
run after catch, deep threat speed, Devonte Smith the quick, fast,

(49:32):
great hands route running technician. Johan Dottson. I thought was
was a real nice addition. Maybe there you can come
up with a question or two. Dallas Goddard still phenomenal.
They got the contract thing with him. I mean, this
is just a great set of weapons. And do you
have any lingering questions about this group heading into twenty
twenty five?

Speaker 8 (49:50):
Just depth, you know, who's your fourth receiver, who's your
second third tight end? Questions that every team has for
the most part, as far as the front liners go,
I think that the only question might be, you know,
we saw a little bit of AJ and his past
with a knee issue here and there. Is that going

(50:11):
to crop up? But otherwise, no questions from a skills standpoint.
You're right, John, They perfectly compliment each other. DeVante with
his body control and everything he does, it's impossible to
cover him one on one. AJ just bullies defensive backs.
It's a terrific group. And Dallas Goddard the Eagles were
able to work out some things with him that they

(50:31):
were early in the offseason speculations that he wouldn't be back,
but they were able to work out a deal that
he stays for twenty twenty five, and he gives them
an all around tight end who's excellent in the run game,
blocking a bull in the red zone, excellent run after
the catch guys.

Speaker 7 (50:45):
So the pieces here for this offense are just perfectly aligned.
Once again.

Speaker 6 (50:53):
Yeah, absolutely, let's go to defense, because Dave you mentioned
it top defense in football, and I think that's really
what changed for the Eagles, right. How much of that
had to do with Vic Fangio and everything he put
in into putting his defense together.

Speaker 8 (51:07):
I mean, anybody who says the coaching doesn't matter in
the NFL, here's an example that it does.

Speaker 7 (51:12):
And the Eagles were able.

Speaker 8 (51:14):
To take a bunch of new pieces last year and
put them in the right spot. They identified somebody like
Zach Bond, who had a limited role edge rusher in
New Orleans. They put him in an off ball linebacker
position and he flourishes, first team All Pro finalists for
the defensive Player of the Year in the league, gets

(51:34):
a huge contract. Remarkable story. You know, take some of
these young pieces, a Quinnon Mitchell, a first round draft pick,
starts from day one out the as the outside corner
the defense. John One of the real turning points of
this season of twenty twenty four was when Cooper de
jen replaced Avonte Maddox at the nickel spot, and his physicality,

(51:58):
his versatility, his athleticism, his fearlessness made the slot position,
slip cornerback position. Nicols Potch is just extraordinar extraordinary success,
and so the defense really took off from there.

Speaker 7 (52:10):
So You've got all of these young pieces and a lot.

Speaker 8 (52:13):
Of news pieces to work in, and I just get
the sense that VIC is going to keep experimenting through
a training camp, taking a look at what he likes,
working some pieces in the regular season, and then by
the middle of the season feel.

Speaker 7 (52:27):
Really good about where this defense is.

Speaker 8 (52:29):
There are a lot of young, talented players that fill
out the seconds. This second part of the depth chart,
the third team depth chart. I feel as many questions
as there are about the defense. I feel better about
where the defense is now than I felt last year.
And a large part of his Vic because he's just

(52:50):
so dang good.

Speaker 6 (52:51):
Yeah, And I think another big part of it, and
I have to tip my cap to him, and I've
been doing this way too much, is why the Eagles
keep winning so many games every year.

Speaker 5 (52:57):
Is the job that Howie Roseman has done.

Speaker 6 (52:59):
You guys have now successively pretty much completely transitioned from
all of the key parts of what were really good
Eagles defenses for a long time. Brandon Graham's not there anymore.
Fletcher Cox isn't there anymore. Even go back, Malcolm Jenkins, right,
he's not there anymore. Darius Slay's not there anymore. James
Bradbury's not there anymore. Go down the list, all the
guys that you identified with the Eagles defense through a

(53:21):
lot of years of success, super Bowl appearances. It's a
super Bowl championship, division wins. They're gone yet somehow, I'm
not sure this group is less talented. And the way
how he's been able to restock the cupboard mostly with
draft picks. Jordan Davis, Jalen Carter, Nolan Smith, Quinneon Mitchell Cooper,

(53:41):
Dejen the Kobe Dean, Sidney Brown, Kaylee Ringo.

Speaker 5 (53:45):
These are all draft picks. I mean that's hard to do.

Speaker 7 (53:50):
Yeah, it really is, and they've just hit on it.

Speaker 8 (53:53):
I mean that the success of the draft has been
key to having this window that is apparently still open
for the Philadelphia Eagles. When you draft, well, everything falls
into place. Look, there's a little bit of luck involved
on the offensive side when you get a Jordan Mylotta
to follow in your lap and you develop him into
a Pro Bowl level left tackle. But when you consistently
hit at the top of the draft, as the Eagles

(54:15):
have done, and some of these mid round, later round
picks Jeremiah Trotter Junior could be slated for a key
role this year a linebacker. You know, Nikobe Deane's been injured.
Eagles didn't fall off a beat. He's supplemented that with
some really good free agent signings. And this year they're
expecting Joshua uch to step up in a very specified

(54:36):
role and as he's Ojla to be a factor off
the edge that they don't have to come in and
be stars. But they expect Nolan Smith to take a
big step and Jylyx Hunt to take a big step
in team with and with Ojalare and form that edge
pass rush. I mean, it is really just a formula.
When your GM is on the same page as your

(54:57):
coaching staff and knows what he's looking for, and you've
got some consistency there and you know what kind of
players you need to bring in to that scheme, it
really does make a big difference rather than changing schemes
and changing coaches and how he's had the benefit of
some stability here for a number of years, and his
draft classes have been outstanding.

Speaker 5 (55:16):
Now, I will say this, you guys are a little
undersized on the edge.

Speaker 3 (55:19):
Now.

Speaker 6 (55:19):
Nolan Smith, even though he's not big, he's an excellent
run defender. So I don't think people should should get
that wrong. But Hunt's not the biggest guy. How important
is it for those guys in the middle of your defense,
the Jalen Carters, the Jordan Davis is Ty Robinson, I
think was a good pick out of Nebraska Moro Jomo
to be sturdy so they can do a lot of
the dirty work to let those guys on the second
level flow.

Speaker 7 (55:40):
Yeah, for sure.

Speaker 8 (55:41):
And I mean, look, I mean a lot of Zach
Bond's success comes from playing behind a player like Jalen Carter. Look,
you know how dominant defensive linemen are. You have them
up in New York. You have an outstanding defensive line,
and the Eagles see Jalen Carter. And for those who
are not a pre of how good Jalen Carter is,

(56:01):
he may not put up the big numbers, but when
you watch him play, he dominates the interior of the
line of scrimmage and that he cleans it all up
so the linebackers are coming free to the football and
it makes a big difference.

Speaker 7 (56:15):
And you're right.

Speaker 8 (56:16):
The Eagles are not huge on the edge, but they're
very large inside. They've got some versatility. They can move
Carter around a little bit on the line of scrimmage.
He's a dominant football player. Jordan Davis came on last
year late in the playoff part of the season, enough
for the Eagles to pick up his fifth year option.
Morow Ojoma was a pass rushing factor last year for

(56:38):
the Eagles in his role. Ty Robinson Comson is a
third round draft pick. There's some other young players that
were on the practice squad that the Eagles like, so
again prioritizing the line of scrimmage. The players we're talking about,
for the most part are all draft picks, and several
of them are high high draft picks, first round draft picks.
Smith and Davis and Carter, etc. Hunt was a high

(57:00):
draft pick. So it's where you build your football steamed.
The Eagles have developed those players and it makes everything work.
And now you look at the secondary and you go, hey,
we can afford to put last year a rookie Quinnon
Mitchell out there in Week number one and let him
develop during the course of the season because our past

(57:20):
rush is reaching the quarterback so and vice versa. The
coverage has been excellent too, So a lot of the
pieces just really fit very nicely with this team.

Speaker 6 (57:27):
John on defense, absolutely, final question on the personnel just
in the secondary. Dave so many young pieces back that
we kind of already mentioned a lot of the names
you mentioned. The impact Cooper Degene had quine On Mitchell.
I loved him coming out at the Eagles. I thought
an absolutely steal with him with where they're able to
draft him. Do they think that he is like first
team All Pro type of potential given what he gave

(57:50):
them as a rookie coming out of a small school.

Speaker 7 (57:53):
Yeah, I mean it's a great, great point.

Speaker 8 (57:54):
He goes from Toledo to the NFL Day one starter,
solid season, didn't give up a touchdown power until you know,
the waning moments of late in the game late in
the season.

Speaker 5 (58:03):
Remind me, did you miss like most of camp with
an injury too?

Speaker 8 (58:06):
No, that was Cooper Cooper, Yeah, Cooper Cooper Degene came
in and started Game five, moved on was just lights out.
So yeah, they do think that that Quinnyon has a
very very high ceiling and then they're going to take
a look at the gene as a nickel, as an
outside corner, as a safety and see where he bets

(58:26):
best fits.

Speaker 7 (58:27):
And that's the thing about Vic.

Speaker 8 (58:28):
He understands that there's some position versatility here, so he
wants to see these players at all these different positions
and see how it works out best for the team.

Speaker 7 (58:37):
As the season moves along.

Speaker 5 (58:38):
How quickly might we see mccouba force his way into
playing time?

Speaker 7 (58:41):
Yeah?

Speaker 8 (58:41):
I mean, look the thing about maccooba as we are
talking unsigned, as are many of the second round draft
picks in the NFL, but mccouba is in the mix,
certainly along with Sidney Brown Tristan McCollum at the vacated
safety spot created by the trade of C. J.

Speaker 7 (58:58):
Garder Johnson to Houston.

Speaker 6 (59:00):
I always ask my final question, and a lot of
these things, Oh, you know, what are the expectations by
the fan base? I know what your guys are there,
Super Bowl or bus So I'm not gonna waste your
time with that one.

Speaker 5 (59:09):
How about this, how long can this window be held open? Dave?

Speaker 6 (59:15):
You know you have some older guys on offense, like
Lane Johnson, Dallas Goddard's on He's not old, but he's
on the older side. We know the way the Eagles
structure their contracts, they push a lot of money into
voy years, which eventually do catch up at some point
when guys retired, when they leave, it happens.

Speaker 5 (59:30):
So how long can this you know, I think they're
still paying Jalen Hurts.

Speaker 6 (59:33):
I think it's cap number still like three million dollars
despite the fact he's on this monster extension. So how
long can this window be held open where they can
keep all this talent together and still be cap compliant.

Speaker 8 (59:44):
Look, a lot depends on how they've developed this young talent.
But John next year in the twenty twenty six draft,
the Eagles hold ten draft picks already and anticipate as
many as three, maybe four compensatory picks. So I mean,
if you're looking at that kind of draft capital already,

(01:00:06):
h And they've got a bunch of one year deals here,
and they've got some young players who are gonna need
to be signed, and there's a chance for really great
roster stability here for a nice long period of window.
And look, they've got a young quarterback Tanner McKee, who's
a very fine prospect. I mean they when you look
down the rock and down the roster, there's just there's
young players that you.

Speaker 7 (01:00:27):
Know, who knows who's going to develop. But if they do,
if if this draft class develops as the Eagles hope.

Speaker 8 (01:00:32):
Combined with what they did last year, I mean we're
talking three to five years, I would imagine right like that,
the Eagles are going to be right there in the
in the thick of things.

Speaker 5 (01:00:41):
Well, that's a fun way for Giant fans. In this
episode of Big Will Kick All, look.

Speaker 8 (01:00:44):
At the Giant, look the Giants. If you got your quarterback,
that's true. If you got your it all starts right there.
And so if Jackson Dart is your guy, then the
Giants are back in the game in what looks to
me to be a very very good NFC East.

Speaker 6 (01:00:59):
It should be a very challenging division. I think it'll
be a lot of fun. Dave, enjoy the rest of
what's now a very short offseason. Players are reporting a week.
I can't wait to see you and we'll talk soon.

Speaker 7 (01:01:09):
All right, John, thanks so much, thanks for having me.

Speaker 5 (01:01:11):
Appreciate that.

Speaker 6 (01:01:12):
Dave Spidaro, thanks for joining us on Bigle Kick Off Live.
Presented by Cadillac, the official luxury vehicle the Giants. Thank
you all of our guests today and for joining us
in the Hackensack Marine Health Podcast.

Speaker 5 (01:01:20):
You'll keep getting better. I'm John Schmulk. We'll see you
next time.