July 7, 2025 • 36 mins
Ep. 898 - Yes, Brock Purdy remains the quarterback. Christian McCaffrey – healthy, by the way – is firmly entrenched at running back, and George Kittle is, well, George Kittle. Still, there will be a lot of new faces on the San Francisco 49ers in 2025. Craig Grialou and Zach Gershman continue their annual offseason tradition of looking around the rest of the NFC West. Next stop: San Francisco. Craig and Zach are joined by Matt Barrows, who covers the 49ers for The Athletic. Among the topics the guys discuss: the overhaul of the defense, starting with its coordinator and remodeled D-line (sound familiar, Bird Gang?) Also, the wide receiver room is “a concern” and why it was important to lock up Purdy, Kittle and Fred Warner to long-term contract extensions.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:02):
So just how consistent how the San Francisco forty nine
ers been in recent years? Well, last season, the last
season was their first season since twenty twenty without making
the playoffs. God Zach Gershman with me. We'll be joined
by Matt Barrows, he covers the forty nine ers for
the Athletic. We continue our off season tradition taking a
look around the rest of the NFC West. It's Cardinals
(00:23):
Cover two, Episode eight ninety eight, and it starts now.
Speaker 2 (00:29):
Welcome to Cardinals Cover two.
Speaker 3 (00:32):
Poa Baker, What Heart?
Speaker 4 (00:34):
What rent?
Speaker 3 (00:35):
This guy's unbelievable.
Speaker 2 (00:36):
Cardinals Cover two is presented by Hyundai, proud partner of
the Arizona Cardinals, and by Arizona Cardinals Podcast. Visit Azycardinals
dot com slash podcast.
Speaker 1 (00:48):
He's at the ten half of five peason again, so
more hurry magic.
Speaker 2 (00:53):
Whow Here's Craig Griola.
Speaker 1 (01:00):
So everyone had a good fourth of July. Hope it
was an extended holiday weekend. And yes, Zach, based on
our previous conversation, it did go outside.
Speaker 4 (01:09):
I was just smart about it.
Speaker 3 (01:12):
What do you mean smart about it?
Speaker 1 (01:14):
Meaning you don't go out at the heat of the
day and you don't stay outside when it's one hundred
and ten for more than five minutes.
Speaker 5 (01:21):
So you went out at like nine thirty pm, that's
what you're saying.
Speaker 3 (01:25):
Where'd you go house, Old Town.
Speaker 4 (01:26):
Crag nine am?
Speaker 1 (01:29):
If you want to give, if you really want to,
here's here's the trick in because you're not even up
by that time.
Speaker 4 (01:35):
I know that here's the trick though. If you really
want to enjoy, that's so wrong.
Speaker 3 (01:40):
In the summer recond you have.
Speaker 1 (01:42):
To wake up early, sunrise and enjoy because by nine
thirty you're already close to ninety degrees ninety five degrees.
Speaker 5 (01:50):
Ninety five degrees is still ninety five degrees. So I
would rather at least go out at night when there's
a little bit of a breeze, because the breeze is
not existing in the morning.
Speaker 1 (02:00):
It's cooler in the morning, that is in the evening,
because in the evening all that sunshine has baked and
the concrete.
Speaker 4 (02:08):
It's press me.
Speaker 3 (02:11):
All right, you know what I need to do?
Speaker 6 (02:12):
Now?
Speaker 4 (02:12):
You need to set an alarm for six a second?
Speaker 5 (02:15):
Why am I acting like this only applies over the weekend.
I walk into this building before nine o'clock every single
weekday at least I try.
Speaker 4 (02:24):
To and when does that alarm go off?
Speaker 1 (02:26):
Though during the week, in order to get in by
nine am, seven forty five.
Speaker 4 (02:30):
See, if you.
Speaker 1 (02:31):
Wake up early, then you can really enjoy the day, get.
Speaker 4 (02:33):
Out for a walk.
Speaker 5 (02:35):
Okay, you know what I'm gonna just start doing. Instead
of reading all these self help books because clearly they
don't help, I'm going to just have an audio recording
of Craig as the new alarm clock, and when I
wake up, it's just going to be you being the
Concrete's not that bad outside?
Speaker 3 (02:51):
What are you doing? Go outside, Zach?
Speaker 4 (02:53):
I do it during the season for Early Bird.
Speaker 3 (02:55):
That is true.
Speaker 5 (02:56):
I did get those text messages for our loyal cover
two listeners.
Speaker 3 (03:00):
That's not We're not just making that up. I do have.
Speaker 5 (03:04):
Receipts of Craig texting he at five thirty five, five
thirty You awake, Zach, and then I have to be
the one to tell him the next day when I
walk into the building. Sorry, Craig, I was still asleep.
Speaker 4 (03:17):
You missed Early Bird? Not good?
Speaker 3 (03:19):
But did I really miss it?
Speaker 4 (03:20):
Yes?
Speaker 5 (03:21):
You did because I get to talk Cardinals ball with
you all day every day. But actually, in this case,
we're talking about some San Francisco ball, so a little
bit different.
Speaker 1 (03:30):
Yeah, a little bit different. By the way, a good
conversation with John Boyle last week talking all things Seattle Seahawks.
If you missed it, can go to the archives this week.
As you mentioned, Zach, it's stopped number two on our
tour of the NFC West, the San Francisco forty nine Ers.
Matt Barrows, he covers the forty nine Ers for the Athletic,
will be joining us here momentarily. You can follow Matt
(03:51):
at Matt Barrows as this offseason he's had a lot
more time to work as far as off season because
for the first time in four seasons, the forty nine
Ers didn't make the postseason twenty twenty when they finished
last in the division coming off their Super Bowl run
is the last time they had this extended break. And
that's what happens when you finish six and eleven in
(04:13):
last place in the NFC West.
Speaker 5 (04:15):
And for them, it provides a lot of different challenges
because when you lose that consistency of constantly playing in
the postseason, it forces you to reevaluate your roster, which
we'll talk a lot about with Matt, But it also
forces you to change your offseason plan in your programming,
because when you were playing football light into January into
(04:36):
early February, that changes how you approached the first few
phases of the offseason. Now, the San Francisco forty nine
Ers have had to go back in time and see
what they previously did when they didn't make the playoffs, which,
as I mentioned, presents a lot of different challenges.
Speaker 1 (04:50):
Speaking of going back in time, Robert sala is back
their fourth different DC in as many years, and just
like the Cardinals, they remodeled their defensive line. They did
take care of three key items, not allowing that to
stretch into the offseason into training camp, and that is
signing Brock party, George Kittle, and Fred Warner, in the
(05:11):
cases of Kittle and Warner the highest paid players at
their respective positions. And yes, brock Purty got paid deservedly,
so what he has done within that forty nine Ers system.
And then what we'll talk about with Matt is I
think the one key factor for the forty nine ers
coming into this season, at least for me, is Christian
(05:32):
McCaffrey and the fact that he is healthy. Cardinals didn't
see him at all. Last season, McCaffrey averages nearly eighty
three rushing yards when playing against the Cardinals with ten
total touchdowns. If he stays healthy, then all of a sudden,
this is a much different forty nine Ers team than
what we saw last season.
Speaker 5 (05:51):
That's when you start to start all the accusations about
brock Party being a checkdown quarterback because in a lot
of cases he doesn't need to be throwing the balls
deep when he has a guy like Christian McCaffrey over
there on these slant routes and these screen routes and
all these different plays where he could just be explosive,
and especially just by handing him the rock. When Christian
McCaffrey was on the field, he was somebody that the
(06:12):
Cardinals really struggled to cover and to tackle and to
bring down. That's just the type of running style that
he plays the game with. They're very fortunate to see
him last year, and I think it does help. Yeah,
the forty nine Ers had plenty of injuries. It was
not just Christian McCaffrey. You think about that Week eighteen matchup,
Josh Dobbs was the starting quarterback for the San Francisco
forty nine Ers. That team was depleted in a lot
(06:34):
of ways. The Cardinals went two and up against the
San Francisco forty nine.
Speaker 3 (06:37):
Ers last year. That's great.
Speaker 5 (06:39):
Now with a healthy team returning, Fred Warner is going
to have a new player he's going to be lining
up with as a new battery mate in that inside
linebackers room. George Kittle obviously is playing at the height
of his game. Brock Purty gets paid, and now that
is something that is an afterthought. This is going to
be a different forty nine Ers team than the one
the Cardinals faced in twenty twenty.
Speaker 1 (07:00):
For well, let's talk about all of it. Here's our
conversation with Matt. So before we talk football, Matt, how
about we talk about a book.
Speaker 4 (07:09):
Your book, Muddy.
Speaker 1 (07:10):
The Water, a book that you wrote with your sister,
your debut novel, a crime novel. Why why now?
Speaker 6 (07:20):
Well why now? It was really why did we start
writing it in twenty twenty And it was because the
pandemic started and we said to ourselves, Okay, if we're
ever going to write this, we have to do it
now because we're both stuck in our respective homes, you know,
not able to do our normal things, and so we
(07:43):
set out to write this idea, which is about a
reporter who commits a series of murders. And it's not biographical.
I'll say that's right out. This is the work of fiction.
And you know, we finally finished actually a couple of
years ago, and then we went through the process of
(08:04):
finding an agent and finding a publisher and it finally
came out in January, and we've been trying to raise
awareness about it ever since.
Speaker 1 (08:15):
Well, you got a great endorsement from Peter King who
mentioned tremendous book. You'll be transfixed. So again, you're looking
for something to do on vacation here this summer before
the start of training camp. It's Muddy the Water, a
crime novel and is Matt mentioned not biographical at all,
(08:35):
Thank god that's the case.
Speaker 6 (08:37):
But it is a good summer read and Peter was
an early reader of it. And you know, Peter King
is a has always been a huge champion of writers
and sports writers. So I was really happy that we
got a plug from the great Peter King in there.
Speaker 4 (08:54):
Absolutely.
Speaker 1 (08:55):
All right, let's get into a different type of writing.
What you've been writing this offseason about the forty nine
ers for the athletic number one story in your opinion,
is it contract extensions, the trades, the changes defensively or
something else.
Speaker 6 (09:10):
Yeah, it was just a spring roster purge really. I
mean they got rid of a lot of their twenty
twenty four starters, some you know, on purpose, not resigning
guys or cutting guys, and and one guy who got
away from them, and Drake Greenlaw, they were just outbid
(09:31):
by the Denver Broncos for him. So a lot of,
you know, bigger names are gone from this team. Greenlaw
on the defense, Steve O. Samuel who really was probably
you know nationally, you know, the guy that you associated
with the forty nine ers the last four or five years.
(09:51):
And so it's gonna it's gonna be a new look
team in a lot of ways. They got younger. They
had eleven draft picks, and they're really kind of relying
on a lot of those picks, a lot of rookies
to fill in the spots left from that that roster purge.
Speaker 5 (10:09):
We'll start on the defensive side of the ball because
with Drake Greenlaw leaving, that provides a big gap, especially
to have somebody next to Fred Warner. Who are you
expecting for that to be and how did they replace
that leadership voice from Drake Green from Drake greenlaw, Yeah, no, that's.
Speaker 6 (10:24):
The that's the big thing. And he also, you know,
was really a kind of feisty type of guy, a
pugnacious guy. Got him in trouble playing the Cardinals a
couple of times with late hits on Kyler Murray. That
was a an opener a few years ago. But yeah,
it's it's a it's a good question because there is
(10:47):
going to be a competition between an incumbent uh D Winters,
who's really, you know, an incredible athlete, you know, one
of the fastest guys on defense, and then a guy
that they drafted in the third round, Nick Martin, out
of on the State. So that's going to be a
(11:08):
really good training camp competition. They liked Nick Martin's leadership
abilities to answer your question, and the Winters really was
one of the standout guys this spring. So I think
that's going to be a lively competition. It's gonna bring
out the best in both of those players. But one
of those two guys probably will be on the field
(11:29):
when the forty nine and Cardinals beaten in week three.
Speaker 1 (11:33):
When we talk about changes defensively, I went back and
looked at week eighteen Cardinals and forty nine Ers. Who's
still on the roster at that time versus now there's
no Leonard Floyd, there's normally Collins, Drake green Law, as
you mentioned, was hurt. He's gone as our Tavarius Ward
talanoa Hufunga. This is gonna look now you still have
(11:55):
Nick Bosa, but this is going to look vastly different.
But on the flipsie, Robert Sawa is back, previously forty
nine Ers defensive coordinator, back after a stint as head
coach with the New York Jets.
Speaker 4 (12:09):
So is what's old is new again?
Speaker 1 (12:12):
Or I mean, does it seem like that much of
a transition when yeah, the roster is different, but now
you've got a familiar face running the show.
Speaker 6 (12:20):
Yeah, I mean Robert Sala was here in twenty seventeen
when Kyle Shanahan was hired and there was a big
revamp of the entire roster, including the defense at that time.
I don't think that this one is quite as big,
but you know, it's the biggest one since those early
Shanahan days, and so you know, Shanahan made that point
(12:45):
when they rehired Robert Shawa. Is that Shala did this
in twenty seventeen at San Francisco, and then he did
a similar job with the Jets when he was hired
as head coach there. So somebody who's kind of familiar
with revamps. Nick Boseho obviously was not on the roster
in twenty seventeen. Fred Warner was a twenty eighteen draft pick,
(13:08):
Diamo or Leonor wasn't on the team. Those are sort
of the three tent poles, if you will, defensive line, linebacker,
and defensive backfield for this team. And the question is,
how quickly can these young guys, you know, four of
the first five picks in the draft or defensive linemen
(13:31):
for the forty nine ers, including Michael Williams with the
with their first round pick, How quickly can those guys
get up the speed and become contributors and or starters.
And that'll be Robert Shallow's biggest order of business this summer.
Speaker 3 (13:48):
Kind of expanding on that a little bit.
Speaker 5 (13:50):
The Cardinals also had a very similar playbook when when
it came to the draft, you know, five of their
first five picks in the draft were defensive players. How
much of that was by design on the forty nine
ers front versus just how the board shook up in
the talent that was out there.
Speaker 6 (14:05):
Yeah, I mean, like I said, I think that they
really wanted to get Drake Greenlaw back in free agency
and when when he left for Denver, that position became
a big priority for them. So that's what they used there.
They had two third round picks, they used one on
a on a linebacker and then one on a on
(14:27):
a nickel cornerback. But yeah, I think that they looked
at the draft, you know, way back when the season ended,
realized that it was going to be a deep draft
on the defensive line, and you know that's that was
part of their strategy. So this was one of the
better defensive line drafts. And I'm sure that the Cardinals
(14:48):
have said that as well. And the forty nine Ers
had a certain number of guys that they liked and
they got They got two defensive tackles and a defensive
end in the.
Speaker 1 (15:00):
You mentioned Michael Williams the eleventh overall pick, and now
you look potentially at him on one side, Nick Bosa
on the other side. I did find it interesting, and
maybe it's because of the number of different changes, but
Bosa was around much this offseason, which is unlike previous
off seasons. What did he say as far as the
reason why he was around. Was it because of all
(15:24):
the different pieces and maybe being a little bit more
of a veteran in that leadership role.
Speaker 6 (15:29):
Yeah, for sure. I mean one was sort of a
more practical rational, which was that, you know, this was
a longer off season for the forty nine ers than
they've had in a long time. So he got his
usual time in Fort Lauderdale working with Joey Bosa and
doing messings that they do there, and he sort of
had that itch to come back and practice with the
(15:52):
forty nine ers. And the second part was exactly what
you described. He's a team leader. Now, He's never been
a really verbose guy, but he speaks up fairly regularly
these past few seasons. Kyle Shanahan taps him to talk
on the Saturday night before the game, and he usually
(16:14):
is very thoughtful about that, and you know that's this
is his his assignment now is to get Michael Williams,
you know they traded for Bryce Huff. Get those guys
up to speed and be part of that that leadership
group that you know that that he had with Eric
(16:35):
Armstead and DeForrest Buckner the Ford when he was drafted
back in twenty nineteen. Now now he's that guy. He's
part of that sort of elite veteran group that needs
to lead the.
Speaker 5 (16:47):
Way you mentioned one of the guys I was just
about to ask about in Bryce Huff. I know of
his relationship with Robert solid from his time in New York,
and but when he went to Philadelphia, the numbers were
not there, the production was. They honestly did not really
use him much in Philadelphia and Vic Fangio's scheme. How
much of this transaction for him to now arrive in
(17:07):
the Bay with the forty nine ers was Robert Sala
banging on the table saying he wants.
Speaker 3 (17:11):
His guy back.
Speaker 6 (17:13):
Yeah, I think a lot of it. And Robert Sala's
take on the whole Eagles situation is that the Eagles
had him playing as a stand up linebacker, whereas he's
best as a hand in the dirt defensive end. And
that's what he did with the Jets obviously under Sala,
and that's what he'll do with the forty nine ers.
(17:33):
I mean, these guys always say that that's not quite
as easy a transitions as you think it is. The
put work in the solid scheme. What Chris Kasuric, the
defensive line coach here, requires is very specific and it
takes half a season to either learn it if you
were a stand up linebacker or learned stand up linebacker
(17:56):
if you were a three point stance type. But he's
the you know, they're they're kind of quickest edge rusher
since D four. D Ford and Bosa were really great
together in twenty nineteen. D Ford started developing back issues
that year and really was never the same. So they've
(18:18):
been sort of chasing that that tandem since and have
had you know, varying success doing that. And this is
I think probably the best facsimile of that Bosa Ford
you know duo that they had. So I think it's
very clear that the forty nine ers want Bosa and
(18:39):
Bright Tough to be the pass rushing, you know, edge
rushers on on obvious passing downs. I think Michael Williams
will be the guy on on bass downs and he
could even pop inside, you know, as a defensive tackle
the three technique on obvious passing downs. But you know,
like I said, I think they're trying to recapture twenty
(19:03):
nineteen Super Bowl year for the forty nine ers in
a lot of ways with that Bryce Huff move.
Speaker 1 (19:08):
Yeah, Huff just two and a half sacks in twelve
games last season, but a career high ten the year
before with the Jets and Robert Sala. All right, let's
switch it over to the offense and we'll get to
the contract extensions for brock perty and George Kittle, but
the Deebo Samuel trade to the Commanders. Brandon Ayuk still
rehabbing that knee. What does that wide receiver room look
(19:30):
like now going into training camp and obviously as they
get ready for Week one, Yeah.
Speaker 6 (19:35):
It's a concern because of Ayuke's knee, and he a
little bit ahead of schedule. He suffered that ACL tear
on October twenty, I think it was Week seven, so
him returning one hundred percent is right around the start
of the season. So it's possible that he's ready for
(19:56):
Week one, but probably he starts the season on pop
and and comes back, you know, sometime at the end
of September early October, so you're missing him the other
piece is that they they talk to Marcus Robinson the
the x RAM in free agency, and he looked good
in the spring practices. He was a favorite target for
(20:19):
UH the top two quarterbacks, but he had a d
U I R S last year and there's a possibility
and maybe a good possibility, that he's suspended to begin
the season, and then there's no Deebo Samuel, so that
beginning of the season wide receiving corps could look a
lot different. Juwan Jennings will be back, and he obviously
(20:41):
proves himself last year, but you know, the other guys
really haven't thus far. And that's Ricky Pearsall, that's Jacob
Cowing who played at the University of Arizona. And then
they they used one of their fourth round picks on
Jordan Watkins out of Ole Miss, who looked really good
in the spring. Well. So it would be a fairly young,
(21:04):
fairly unproven wide receiving corps if all those things happen
as we think they might. In early September and.
Speaker 5 (21:13):
Once again in early September, the forty nine ers start
the season against the Seattle Seahawks and then play the
Arizona Cardinals in week three, So even though you can't
win the division in September, you could definitely fall behind.
So that's something that I know the Bird gang out
here is going to be looking at. With George Kittle
thirty one years old, but you know, beats out Trey
McBride as the highest paid tight end in NFL history.
(21:36):
Only gave him a month of enjoying himself holding that title,
Trey McBride, But with George Kittle, just how much more
does he have to give at thirty one because he
still is playing at the top of his game.
Speaker 6 (21:48):
Yeah, I mean he's coming off of two straight a
thousand yard seasons. You know, Unlike a lot of tight ends,
McBride is probably the exception here. Kittle plays a lot
in line too, so he's doing a lot of blocking
and probably you know, you know, taking a bigger toll
on his body than say a Travis Kelsey, who you
(22:10):
know basically is a big slot receiver for most of
the time. So he's been able to do that. He
hasn't been entirely healthy those last two seasons, but he's
played the majority of the games and he's made an impact.
You know, he was the team leader in receiving yards
this past season, so in touchdowns as well, if if
(22:31):
I'm remembering correctly, so he's he's had a bigger and
bigger role in this offense the last two years, and
really early in his career he didn't score a lot
of touchdowns, and most of his touchdowns were you know,
really long touchdowns, you know, eighty five yards, sixty five yards.
(22:51):
He's become more of a redstone threat. Last year they
had no Christian McCaffrey for most of the season. Christian
McCaffrey scored a lot of touchdowns in twenty three and
it was really the It was really the kittle in
the tight end group that kind of filled that gap,
not so much the running backs, but you know, in
(23:14):
the passing attack. So, you know, to answer your question,
he looked really good last year, as good as he
ever did in you know, playing a big role both
both as the blocker and as a receiver.
Speaker 1 (23:26):
We've gone this long without talking a lot about Christian McCaffery,
but the fact that he's healthy is that the biggest
reason for a lot of optimism coming out of the
Bay Area. The fact that McCaffery only played four games
last season didn't even face the Cardinals last season, he's
had great success against the Cardinals, but getting him back
within that offense and how much better the forty nine
(23:49):
Ers can be overall this season.
Speaker 6 (23:52):
Yeah, he's sort of symbolic of the team overall and that,
you know, just the beat up, fatigue team last year.
And you know, McCaffrey's issues started in the summer with
a with an achilles injury that he had a hard
time shaking, but he eventually did. And then you know,
(24:12):
your listeners will probably remember a snow game in Buffalo
where it looked like McCaffrey was kind of coming out
of his funk. He looked like himself, he was on
his way to a big day and then sort of
had a freak knee injury where he was tripped up
sort of a shoe string tackle and felt very hard
on the knee and suffered a not a rare injury
(24:35):
but one that you know, isn't all that common for
NFL running backs. It just sort of kind of typified
the forty nine ers season, his season. But you know,
his point in the spring was that he just wanted
to make it through the spring healthy, take part in
every OTA practice, every mini camp practice and he did that,
(24:56):
and so I think that that was a big confidence
boost for him. I think it was a big confidence
boost for the offense. Like I mentioned, you know, he
scored twenty something touchdowns in twenty three and they really
missed him in the red zone this past season. So
that alone, just being more confident that you can score touchdowns,
(25:18):
score six points instead of three when you're in the
deep red zone, I think that's going to be a
big boost to everybody.
Speaker 5 (25:25):
We've gone around fifteen minutes with that, with barely even
talking about the quarterback. Brock Purty obviously gets his contract extension,
and I feel like when you look at brock Party
in the early part of his career, even though it's
still very young, you always have that mister irrelevant title
tack to him. Now that he has this contract extension
and is not getting paid like mister irrelevant gets paid,
(25:47):
I think that the title starts to kind of get
put to the side. What does a successful twenty twenty
five season look like for brock Party, I mean.
Speaker 6 (25:55):
It's it looks a lot like his last couple of seasons.
I think that the one the one issue with Purdy
is that his touchdown. The interception ratio, which which isn't bad,
but that's an area where he can improve. There's still
too many interceptions, you know, you know, especially for an
(26:22):
efficient offense. Now I say that he counter balances that
nicely with a lot of big plays. I mean the
knock on Purty just from the surface is that he's
not very big. He doesn't have a very big arm,
and you'd think that he's mister checkdown. Well he's not.
He usually leads the league in yards per attempt. He
(26:45):
really does push the ball downfield. But in pushing the
ball downfield, it does lead to I want to see
a lot of interceptions, but probably more than the forty
nine ers would like. And so that's that's a big question.
And the question, you know, it relates to Ayuk, and
that's a very good tandem. That's a very good deep
(27:06):
ball tandem for the forty nine ers. And when Ayuk
isn't in the rotation, teams tend to play a lot
more man coverage against the forty nine ers and that's
not a pretty specialty. So it has a real sort
of domino effect on the whole scheme when certain guys
are out. So that's why Pierce All Ricky Piersall is
(27:28):
such an important component. I mentioned Jacob Cowing he had
a really nice spring in those guys. If if Ayuk
is out for a month or maybe even six weeks,
can those guys kind of duplicate some of the routes,
some of the danger that Ayuk presents to defenses so
that they're not aggressive playing a lot of man demand,
(27:51):
which was the case for for most of last season.
Speaker 4 (27:56):
Matt, good stuff.
Speaker 1 (27:57):
Appreciate the time, all the information here, and again want
to remind everyone the debut novel crime novel Muddy the Water,
great summer read, and then follow Matt's work on the
athletic It's going to be an interesting season ahead, not
only for the forty nine ers map, but I think
the Cardinals and maybe the entire NFC West to try
to figure out who's going to come out on top.
Speaker 6 (28:18):
Yeah, you're right, and I agree with you. The early
part of the season will certainly be important and set
the tone for the rest.
Speaker 1 (28:27):
Appreciate it, Matt. Yeah, who can get off to a
good start is going to be key for every team. Matt,
really appreciate it and look forward to seeing you this season.
Speaker 6 (28:36):
Okay, thanks a lot, Thanks for having me on.
Speaker 1 (28:38):
First time speaking with Matt Zach and I appreciate his
time first of all and all of the information. And
I do believe that I am going to go find
Muddy the water. I am very intrigued with a crime
novel in which, as he mentioned, it's not autobiographical, but
because it's a reporter who's i won't say a serial killer,
(29:01):
but committed to murder and all of a sudden is
not working for a newspaper and trying to lay low to.
Speaker 5 (29:08):
Get it, I'm sure if we haven't read it yet
and what we're going to, I'm sure it's going to
provide a different outlook too into how some reporters in
different fields think, because just the thought process about it.
Speaker 3 (29:19):
We're obviously in the sports.
Speaker 5 (29:20):
Field, but doing something along those lines is totally different.
And it's also a different writing style for somebody who
writes for the athletic who it's a little bit more
game stories, a little bit more features. This is going
to be a different form of storytelling, and as storytellers
are ourselves, I'm sure we could appreciate.
Speaker 1 (29:35):
That the story that we told towards the end of
that interview the fact that we took darn near the
entire interview before we brought up QB one for San Francisco.
But I do believe the fact that teams if you're smart,
because it gets more expensive the longer you wait, and
then it becomes a distraction if it gets into training camp.
(29:56):
But the forty nine ers, we're smart taking care of
party George Kittle and for Fred Warner. But the fact
that you get those questions done now before your off
season break and then training camp, you just focus on
x's and oh is not worried about I'm worth this
or how old do we fit this guy into the
salary cap? Now, you take care of that as soon
(30:17):
as possible, like the Cardinals did with Trey McBride, so
it doesn't become a talking point every single day during
training camp.
Speaker 5 (30:25):
With Trade McBride, with Buddha Baker getting his contract extension,
with Yell Defrojold, James Connors, David Collins. The Cardinals have
done a really solid job under Monti Austin Ford of
making sure that they get their guys under contract and
making sure that they're treated well in this facility. So
to see something like that good on the Niners for
recognizing what their players mean. George Kittle does a lot
(30:47):
more than just provide on the field. He does a
lot off the field, the tight end university stuff that
he does, just the person that he is with his
personality and how a lot of media outlets love covering
him with Kyle Huschak bringing him back as well, knowing
how much the juice meant to that fan base. There's
things like that where good front offices recognize the talents
(31:10):
that they have and that the forty nine ers have
done a great job of being a successful front Officer's
a reason why this is the first time since twenty
twenty where they haven't been in the postseason. They do
a great job at recognizing talent. They found a diamond
in the rough in Brock Party, and now they honored
mister Irrelevant with a pretty relevant and expensive contract.
Speaker 1 (31:30):
Cardinals will see Brock Party in company for the first
time Week three in San Francisco. The forty nine Ers
will be at State Farm Stadium in Week eleven. One
one particular matchup and we didn't bring it up with Matt,
but I do want to bring it up here on
Cardinals Cover two, and that is Week three. Provided knock
on wood, everyone is healthy, you will have eighteen year
(31:52):
veteran Kalis Campbell going up against sixteen year veteran tackle
Trent Williams. The fact that they are still in the league,
and not just still in the league, but playing very,
very good football. You're lucky if you can get double
digit years in the NFL. But approaching a second full
(32:14):
decade for these two, I'm I'm gonna be paying a
little bit more attention to that wherever Kalais might be
lining up along that line of scrimmage.
Speaker 5 (32:22):
Let alone double digit years in the NFL. You're lucky
if you get to a second contract in the NFL.
For a lot of these players, this is the most
challenging league for a reason. So to see Kalais in
QRE eighteen Trent Williams in year sixteen. Trent Williams is
still one of the most feared offensive linemen. There's a
(32:43):
reason why he has that enforcer nickname. He's somebody that
is very you know. I remember growing up and watching
him in Washington and seeing what Trent Williams did there.
There was no offensive lineman I hated watching teams go
up against than when he was out there because he's
a brick wall. He does not let anything get by him.
(33:04):
But to see that that that that one on one matchup,
when it does happen, I'm excited to see who gets
the best.
Speaker 1 (33:11):
Of who, and it could be where they get the
best of each other. I mean it becomes maybe a
stalemate or one guy does really well week three and
then it's up to the other guy in week eleven
to come back and even the score.
Speaker 5 (33:22):
All I hope is that if they decide to put
Kalays on that side of the line, Dalvin Tomlinson up
the middle, whatever whatever it takes to to stuff the run.
That's that's also gonna be a difference. We talked about
Christian McCaffrey stats earlier in the game. He hasn't gone
up against this kind of Cardinals defensive line. You have
Darius Robinson. He hasn't met Darius Robinson before, at least
(33:44):
on the football field. Now that's gonna happen. Walter Nolen third,
with his lateral quickness that continues to be talked about,
and how.
Speaker 3 (33:51):
Twitchy he is on the field.
Speaker 5 (33:53):
Just the explosiveness he plays the game with.
Speaker 3 (33:55):
That's gonna be something.
Speaker 1 (33:56):
L J.
Speaker 5 (33:57):
Collier is coming back, Justin Jones is coming back, Kawai's Campbell.
There's so many different pieces that. Yes, when Christian McCaffrey
was with the forty nine ers, Cardinals still have JJ Watt.
I understand that, but this is now a collective unit
of really strong, talented individuals.
Speaker 1 (34:13):
A different looking Cardinals defense, a different looking forty nine
Ers defense. As we are now two thirds of our
way through our tour of the NFC West, We've talked Seahawks,
We've talked forty nine Ers. Next up next week, the
Los Angeles Rams.
Speaker 3 (34:27):
We got to ask about how the trip to Malli went.
Speaker 1 (34:29):
Yeah, we gotta figure out how the Cardinals can figure
out a way.
Speaker 4 (34:34):
Maybe it's maybe it's Canada.
Speaker 5 (34:37):
Maybe it is Canada. I'll go to Canada.
Speaker 1 (34:40):
I'll throw it out there and we're gonna make that work.
I mean, if the Rams can go to Maui, I
don't know if we can.
Speaker 3 (34:46):
Why don't we just go to Los Angeles?
Speaker 1 (34:48):
To Los Angeles, San Diego, been there, done that before.
But yeah, teams are doing it, or at least the
door is open now for teams to hold mini camp elsewhere.
Speaker 5 (34:57):
And that's gonna be something that years down the line, sure,
we're going to start to see it become a ticketed.
The NFL is a business, so if training camp or
mini camp rather becomes ticketed, that could be something that
could be interesting. But I do know that Cardinals camp
at State Farm Stadium for training camp. Those are free tickets,
free parking. Everything's on Azycardinals dot com for all that information,
(35:19):
asycardinals dot com, slash camp tixs tix for free access
to head to State Farm Stadium to watch your Cardinals
get ready for the twenty twenty five season and to
watch sech work. I'll be right there on the sidelines.
If you see me or CRAIGGREELU, make sure to say
what's up.
Speaker 4 (35:35):
Speaking of work, You've got a lot of work to do.
Speaker 5 (35:38):
Just because we're back from July fourth, work doesn't stop.
We're still working over July PI.
Speaker 4 (35:43):
It does it?
Speaker 6 (35:43):
Does it?
Speaker 1 (35:44):
The NFL never stops, and neither does Zach Ersman.
Speaker 5 (35:47):
Nope, which is why everyone should go check out Azycardins
dot com for all the latest information.
Speaker 4 (35:51):
Well done.
Speaker 1 (35:51):
On that note, we will put a lid on this
edition of Cardinals Cover two presented by Hyundai probably partner
the Arizona Cardinals As always, special thanks to our executive
producer Jim MoMA Henro, our associate producer Cuddy Fincher for
Zach Gershman, I'm Craig Rayalloup. We'll talk to you next
time you're on Cardinals.
Speaker 3 (36:06):
Cover two
So just how consistent how the San Francisco forty nine
ers been in recent years? Well, last season, the last
season was their first season since twenty twenty without making
the playoffs. God Zach Gershman with me. We'll be joined
by Matt Barrows, he covers the forty nine ers for
the Athletic. We continue our off season tradition taking a
look around the rest of the NFC West. It's Cardinals
(00:23):
Cover two, Episode eight ninety eight, and it starts now.
Speaker 2 (00:29):
Welcome to Cardinals Cover two.
Speaker 3 (00:32):
Poa Baker, What Heart?
Speaker 4 (00:34):
What rent?
Speaker 3 (00:35):
This guy's unbelievable.
Speaker 2 (00:36):
Cardinals Cover two is presented by Hyundai, proud partner of
the Arizona Cardinals, and by Arizona Cardinals Podcast. Visit Azycardinals
dot com slash podcast.
Speaker 1 (00:48):
He's at the ten half of five peason again, so
more hurry magic.
Speaker 2 (00:53):
Whow Here's Craig Griola.
Speaker 1 (01:00):
So everyone had a good fourth of July. Hope it
was an extended holiday weekend. And yes, Zach, based on
our previous conversation, it did go outside.
Speaker 4 (01:09):
I was just smart about it.
Speaker 3 (01:12):
What do you mean smart about it?
Speaker 1 (01:14):
Meaning you don't go out at the heat of the
day and you don't stay outside when it's one hundred
and ten for more than five minutes.
Speaker 5 (01:21):
So you went out at like nine thirty pm, that's
what you're saying.
Speaker 3 (01:25):
Where'd you go house, Old Town.
Speaker 4 (01:26):
Crag nine am?
Speaker 1 (01:29):
If you want to give, if you really want to,
here's here's the trick in because you're not even up
by that time.
Speaker 4 (01:35):
I know that here's the trick though. If you really
want to enjoy, that's so wrong.
Speaker 3 (01:40):
In the summer recond you have.
Speaker 1 (01:42):
To wake up early, sunrise and enjoy because by nine
thirty you're already close to ninety degrees ninety five degrees.
Speaker 5 (01:50):
Ninety five degrees is still ninety five degrees. So I
would rather at least go out at night when there's
a little bit of a breeze, because the breeze is
not existing in the morning.
Speaker 1 (02:00):
It's cooler in the morning, that is in the evening,
because in the evening all that sunshine has baked and
the concrete.
Speaker 4 (02:08):
It's press me.
Speaker 3 (02:11):
All right, you know what I need to do?
Speaker 6 (02:12):
Now?
Speaker 4 (02:12):
You need to set an alarm for six a second?
Speaker 5 (02:15):
Why am I acting like this only applies over the weekend.
I walk into this building before nine o'clock every single
weekday at least I try.
Speaker 4 (02:24):
To and when does that alarm go off?
Speaker 1 (02:26):
Though during the week, in order to get in by
nine am, seven forty five.
Speaker 4 (02:30):
See, if you.
Speaker 1 (02:31):
Wake up early, then you can really enjoy the day, get.
Speaker 4 (02:33):
Out for a walk.
Speaker 5 (02:35):
Okay, you know what I'm gonna just start doing. Instead
of reading all these self help books because clearly they
don't help, I'm going to just have an audio recording
of Craig as the new alarm clock, and when I
wake up, it's just going to be you being the
Concrete's not that bad outside?
Speaker 3 (02:51):
What are you doing? Go outside, Zach?
Speaker 4 (02:53):
I do it during the season for Early Bird.
Speaker 3 (02:55):
That is true.
Speaker 5 (02:56):
I did get those text messages for our loyal cover
two listeners.
Speaker 3 (03:00):
That's not We're not just making that up. I do have.
Speaker 5 (03:04):
Receipts of Craig texting he at five thirty five, five
thirty You awake, Zach, and then I have to be
the one to tell him the next day when I
walk into the building. Sorry, Craig, I was still asleep.
Speaker 4 (03:17):
You missed Early Bird? Not good?
Speaker 3 (03:19):
But did I really miss it?
Speaker 4 (03:20):
Yes?
Speaker 5 (03:21):
You did because I get to talk Cardinals ball with
you all day every day. But actually, in this case,
we're talking about some San Francisco ball, so a little
bit different.
Speaker 1 (03:30):
Yeah, a little bit different. By the way, a good
conversation with John Boyle last week talking all things Seattle Seahawks.
If you missed it, can go to the archives this week.
As you mentioned, Zach, it's stopped number two on our
tour of the NFC West, the San Francisco forty nine Ers.
Matt Barrows, he covers the forty nine Ers for the Athletic,
will be joining us here momentarily. You can follow Matt
(03:51):
at Matt Barrows as this offseason he's had a lot
more time to work as far as off season because
for the first time in four seasons, the forty nine
Ers didn't make the postseason twenty twenty when they finished
last in the division coming off their Super Bowl run
is the last time they had this extended break. And
that's what happens when you finish six and eleven in
(04:13):
last place in the NFC West.
Speaker 5 (04:15):
And for them, it provides a lot of different challenges
because when you lose that consistency of constantly playing in
the postseason, it forces you to reevaluate your roster, which
we'll talk a lot about with Matt, But it also
forces you to change your offseason plan in your programming,
because when you were playing football light into January into
(04:36):
early February, that changes how you approached the first few
phases of the offseason. Now, the San Francisco forty nine
Ers have had to go back in time and see
what they previously did when they didn't make the playoffs, which,
as I mentioned, presents a lot of different challenges.
Speaker 1 (04:50):
Speaking of going back in time, Robert sala is back
their fourth different DC in as many years, and just
like the Cardinals, they remodeled their defensive line. They did
take care of three key items, not allowing that to
stretch into the offseason into training camp, and that is
signing Brock party, George Kittle, and Fred Warner, in the
(05:11):
cases of Kittle and Warner the highest paid players at
their respective positions. And yes, brock Purty got paid deservedly,
so what he has done within that forty nine Ers system.
And then what we'll talk about with Matt is I
think the one key factor for the forty nine ers
coming into this season, at least for me, is Christian
(05:32):
McCaffrey and the fact that he is healthy. Cardinals didn't
see him at all. Last season, McCaffrey averages nearly eighty
three rushing yards when playing against the Cardinals with ten
total touchdowns. If he stays healthy, then all of a sudden,
this is a much different forty nine Ers team than
what we saw last season.
Speaker 5 (05:51):
That's when you start to start all the accusations about
brock Party being a checkdown quarterback because in a lot
of cases he doesn't need to be throwing the balls
deep when he has a guy like Christian McCaffrey over
there on these slant routes and these screen routes and
all these different plays where he could just be explosive,
and especially just by handing him the rock. When Christian
McCaffrey was on the field, he was somebody that the
(06:12):
Cardinals really struggled to cover and to tackle and to
bring down. That's just the type of running style that
he plays the game with. They're very fortunate to see
him last year, and I think it does help. Yeah,
the forty nine Ers had plenty of injuries. It was
not just Christian McCaffrey. You think about that Week eighteen matchup,
Josh Dobbs was the starting quarterback for the San Francisco
forty nine Ers. That team was depleted in a lot
(06:34):
of ways. The Cardinals went two and up against the
San Francisco forty nine.
Speaker 3 (06:37):
Ers last year. That's great.
Speaker 5 (06:39):
Now with a healthy team returning, Fred Warner is going
to have a new player he's going to be lining
up with as a new battery mate in that inside
linebackers room. George Kittle obviously is playing at the height
of his game. Brock Purty gets paid, and now that
is something that is an afterthought. This is going to
be a different forty nine Ers team than the one
the Cardinals faced in twenty twenty.
Speaker 1 (07:00):
For well, let's talk about all of it. Here's our
conversation with Matt. So before we talk football, Matt, how
about we talk about a book.
Speaker 4 (07:09):
Your book, Muddy.
Speaker 1 (07:10):
The Water, a book that you wrote with your sister,
your debut novel, a crime novel. Why why now?
Speaker 6 (07:20):
Well why now? It was really why did we start
writing it in twenty twenty And it was because the
pandemic started and we said to ourselves, Okay, if we're
ever going to write this, we have to do it
now because we're both stuck in our respective homes, you know,
not able to do our normal things, and so we
(07:43):
set out to write this idea, which is about a
reporter who commits a series of murders. And it's not biographical.
I'll say that's right out. This is the work of fiction.
And you know, we finally finished actually a couple of
years ago, and then we went through the process of
(08:04):
finding an agent and finding a publisher and it finally
came out in January, and we've been trying to raise
awareness about it ever since.
Speaker 1 (08:15):
Well, you got a great endorsement from Peter King who
mentioned tremendous book. You'll be transfixed. So again, you're looking
for something to do on vacation here this summer before
the start of training camp. It's Muddy the Water, a
crime novel and is Matt mentioned not biographical at all,
(08:35):
Thank god that's the case.
Speaker 6 (08:37):
But it is a good summer read and Peter was
an early reader of it. And you know, Peter King
is a has always been a huge champion of writers
and sports writers. So I was really happy that we
got a plug from the great Peter King in there.
Speaker 4 (08:54):
Absolutely.
Speaker 1 (08:55):
All right, let's get into a different type of writing.
What you've been writing this offseason about the forty nine
ers for the athletic number one story in your opinion,
is it contract extensions, the trades, the changes defensively or
something else.
Speaker 6 (09:10):
Yeah, it was just a spring roster purge really. I
mean they got rid of a lot of their twenty
twenty four starters, some you know, on purpose, not resigning
guys or cutting guys, and and one guy who got
away from them, and Drake Greenlaw, they were just outbid
(09:31):
by the Denver Broncos for him. So a lot of,
you know, bigger names are gone from this team. Greenlaw
on the defense, Steve O. Samuel who really was probably
you know nationally, you know, the guy that you associated
with the forty nine ers the last four or five years.
(09:51):
And so it's gonna it's gonna be a new look
team in a lot of ways. They got younger. They
had eleven draft picks, and they're really kind of relying
on a lot of those picks, a lot of rookies
to fill in the spots left from that that roster purge.
Speaker 5 (10:09):
We'll start on the defensive side of the ball because
with Drake Greenlaw leaving, that provides a big gap, especially
to have somebody next to Fred Warner. Who are you
expecting for that to be and how did they replace
that leadership voice from Drake Green from Drake greenlaw, Yeah, no, that's.
Speaker 6 (10:24):
The that's the big thing. And he also, you know,
was really a kind of feisty type of guy, a
pugnacious guy. Got him in trouble playing the Cardinals a
couple of times with late hits on Kyler Murray. That
was a an opener a few years ago. But yeah,
it's it's a it's a good question because there is
(10:47):
going to be a competition between an incumbent uh D Winters,
who's really, you know, an incredible athlete, you know, one
of the fastest guys on defense, and then a guy
that they drafted in the third round, Nick Martin, out
of on the State. So that's going to be a
(11:08):
really good training camp competition. They liked Nick Martin's leadership
abilities to answer your question, and the Winters really was
one of the standout guys this spring. So I think
that's going to be a lively competition. It's gonna bring
out the best in both of those players. But one
of those two guys probably will be on the field
(11:29):
when the forty nine and Cardinals beaten in week three.
Speaker 1 (11:33):
When we talk about changes defensively, I went back and
looked at week eighteen Cardinals and forty nine Ers. Who's
still on the roster at that time versus now there's
no Leonard Floyd, there's normally Collins, Drake green Law, as
you mentioned, was hurt. He's gone as our Tavarius Ward
talanoa Hufunga. This is gonna look now you still have
(11:55):
Nick Bosa, but this is going to look vastly different.
But on the flipsie, Robert Sawa is back, previously forty
nine Ers defensive coordinator, back after a stint as head
coach with the New York Jets.
Speaker 4 (12:09):
So is what's old is new again?
Speaker 1 (12:12):
Or I mean, does it seem like that much of
a transition when yeah, the roster is different, but now
you've got a familiar face running the show.
Speaker 6 (12:20):
Yeah, I mean Robert Sala was here in twenty seventeen
when Kyle Shanahan was hired and there was a big
revamp of the entire roster, including the defense at that time.
I don't think that this one is quite as big,
but you know, it's the biggest one since those early
Shanahan days, and so you know, Shanahan made that point
(12:45):
when they rehired Robert Shawa. Is that Shala did this
in twenty seventeen at San Francisco, and then he did
a similar job with the Jets when he was hired
as head coach there. So somebody who's kind of familiar
with revamps. Nick Boseho obviously was not on the roster
in twenty seventeen. Fred Warner was a twenty eighteen draft pick,
(13:08):
Diamo or Leonor wasn't on the team. Those are sort
of the three tent poles, if you will, defensive line, linebacker,
and defensive backfield for this team. And the question is,
how quickly can these young guys, you know, four of
the first five picks in the draft or defensive linemen
(13:31):
for the forty nine ers, including Michael Williams with the
with their first round pick, How quickly can those guys
get up the speed and become contributors and or starters.
And that'll be Robert Shallow's biggest order of business this summer.
Speaker 3 (13:48):
Kind of expanding on that a little bit.
Speaker 5 (13:50):
The Cardinals also had a very similar playbook when when
it came to the draft, you know, five of their
first five picks in the draft were defensive players. How
much of that was by design on the forty nine
ers front versus just how the board shook up in
the talent that was out there.
Speaker 6 (14:05):
Yeah, I mean, like I said, I think that they
really wanted to get Drake Greenlaw back in free agency
and when when he left for Denver, that position became
a big priority for them. So that's what they used there.
They had two third round picks, they used one on
a on a linebacker and then one on a on
(14:27):
a nickel cornerback. But yeah, I think that they looked
at the draft, you know, way back when the season ended,
realized that it was going to be a deep draft
on the defensive line, and you know that's that was
part of their strategy. So this was one of the
better defensive line drafts. And I'm sure that the Cardinals
(14:48):
have said that as well. And the forty nine Ers
had a certain number of guys that they liked and
they got They got two defensive tackles and a defensive
end in the.
Speaker 1 (15:00):
You mentioned Michael Williams the eleventh overall pick, and now
you look potentially at him on one side, Nick Bosa
on the other side. I did find it interesting, and
maybe it's because of the number of different changes, but
Bosa was around much this offseason, which is unlike previous
off seasons. What did he say as far as the
reason why he was around. Was it because of all
(15:24):
the different pieces and maybe being a little bit more
of a veteran in that leadership role.
Speaker 6 (15:29):
Yeah, for sure. I mean one was sort of a
more practical rational, which was that, you know, this was
a longer off season for the forty nine ers than
they've had in a long time. So he got his
usual time in Fort Lauderdale working with Joey Bosa and
doing messings that they do there, and he sort of
had that itch to come back and practice with the
(15:52):
forty nine ers. And the second part was exactly what
you described. He's a team leader. Now, He's never been
a really verbose guy, but he speaks up fairly regularly
these past few seasons. Kyle Shanahan taps him to talk
on the Saturday night before the game, and he usually
(16:14):
is very thoughtful about that, and you know that's this
is his his assignment now is to get Michael Williams,
you know they traded for Bryce Huff. Get those guys
up to speed and be part of that that leadership
group that you know that that he had with Eric
(16:35):
Armstead and DeForrest Buckner the Ford when he was drafted
back in twenty nineteen. Now now he's that guy. He's
part of that sort of elite veteran group that needs
to lead the.
Speaker 5 (16:47):
Way you mentioned one of the guys I was just
about to ask about in Bryce Huff. I know of
his relationship with Robert solid from his time in New York,
and but when he went to Philadelphia, the numbers were
not there, the production was. They honestly did not really
use him much in Philadelphia and Vic Fangio's scheme. How
much of this transaction for him to now arrive in
(17:07):
the Bay with the forty nine ers was Robert Sala
banging on the table saying he wants.
Speaker 3 (17:11):
His guy back.
Speaker 6 (17:13):
Yeah, I think a lot of it. And Robert Sala's
take on the whole Eagles situation is that the Eagles
had him playing as a stand up linebacker, whereas he's
best as a hand in the dirt defensive end. And
that's what he did with the Jets obviously under Sala,
and that's what he'll do with the forty nine ers.
(17:33):
I mean, these guys always say that that's not quite
as easy a transitions as you think it is. The
put work in the solid scheme. What Chris Kasuric, the
defensive line coach here, requires is very specific and it
takes half a season to either learn it if you
were a stand up linebacker or learned stand up linebacker
(17:56):
if you were a three point stance type. But he's
the you know, they're they're kind of quickest edge rusher
since D four. D Ford and Bosa were really great
together in twenty nineteen. D Ford started developing back issues
that year and really was never the same. So they've
(18:18):
been sort of chasing that that tandem since and have
had you know, varying success doing that. And this is
I think probably the best facsimile of that Bosa Ford
you know duo that they had. So I think it's
very clear that the forty nine ers want Bosa and
(18:39):
Bright Tough to be the pass rushing, you know, edge
rushers on on obvious passing downs. I think Michael Williams
will be the guy on on bass downs and he
could even pop inside, you know, as a defensive tackle
the three technique on obvious passing downs. But you know,
like I said, I think they're trying to recapture twenty
(19:03):
nineteen Super Bowl year for the forty nine ers in
a lot of ways with that Bryce Huff move.
Speaker 1 (19:08):
Yeah, Huff just two and a half sacks in twelve
games last season, but a career high ten the year
before with the Jets and Robert Sala. All right, let's
switch it over to the offense and we'll get to
the contract extensions for brock perty and George Kittle, but
the Deebo Samuel trade to the Commanders. Brandon Ayuk still
rehabbing that knee. What does that wide receiver room look
(19:30):
like now going into training camp and obviously as they
get ready for Week one, Yeah.
Speaker 6 (19:35):
It's a concern because of Ayuke's knee, and he a
little bit ahead of schedule. He suffered that ACL tear
on October twenty, I think it was Week seven, so
him returning one hundred percent is right around the start
of the season. So it's possible that he's ready for
(19:56):
Week one, but probably he starts the season on pop
and and comes back, you know, sometime at the end
of September early October, so you're missing him the other
piece is that they they talk to Marcus Robinson the
the x RAM in free agency, and he looked good
in the spring practices. He was a favorite target for
(20:19):
UH the top two quarterbacks, but he had a d
U I R S last year and there's a possibility
and maybe a good possibility, that he's suspended to begin
the season, and then there's no Deebo Samuel, so that
beginning of the season wide receiving corps could look a
lot different. Juwan Jennings will be back, and he obviously
(20:41):
proves himself last year, but you know, the other guys
really haven't thus far. And that's Ricky Pearsall, that's Jacob
Cowing who played at the University of Arizona. And then
they they used one of their fourth round picks on
Jordan Watkins out of Ole Miss, who looked really good
in the spring. Well. So it would be a fairly young,
(21:04):
fairly unproven wide receiving corps if all those things happen
as we think they might. In early September and.
Speaker 5 (21:13):
Once again in early September, the forty nine ers start
the season against the Seattle Seahawks and then play the
Arizona Cardinals in week three, So even though you can't
win the division in September, you could definitely fall behind.
So that's something that I know the Bird gang out
here is going to be looking at. With George Kittle
thirty one years old, but you know, beats out Trey
McBride as the highest paid tight end in NFL history.
(21:36):
Only gave him a month of enjoying himself holding that title,
Trey McBride, But with George Kittle, just how much more
does he have to give at thirty one because he
still is playing at the top of his game.
Speaker 6 (21:48):
Yeah, I mean he's coming off of two straight a
thousand yard seasons. You know, Unlike a lot of tight ends,
McBride is probably the exception here. Kittle plays a lot
in line too, so he's doing a lot of blocking
and probably you know, you know, taking a bigger toll
on his body than say a Travis Kelsey, who you
(22:10):
know basically is a big slot receiver for most of
the time. So he's been able to do that. He
hasn't been entirely healthy those last two seasons, but he's
played the majority of the games and he's made an impact.
You know, he was the team leader in receiving yards
this past season, so in touchdowns as well, if if
(22:31):
I'm remembering correctly, so he's he's had a bigger and
bigger role in this offense the last two years, and
really early in his career he didn't score a lot
of touchdowns, and most of his touchdowns were you know,
really long touchdowns, you know, eighty five yards, sixty five yards.
(22:51):
He's become more of a redstone threat. Last year they
had no Christian McCaffrey for most of the season. Christian
McCaffrey scored a lot of touchdowns in twenty three and
it was really the It was really the kittle in
the tight end group that kind of filled that gap,
not so much the running backs, but you know, in
(23:14):
the passing attack. So, you know, to answer your question,
he looked really good last year, as good as he
ever did in you know, playing a big role both
both as the blocker and as a receiver.
Speaker 1 (23:26):
We've gone this long without talking a lot about Christian McCaffery,
but the fact that he's healthy is that the biggest
reason for a lot of optimism coming out of the
Bay Area. The fact that McCaffery only played four games
last season didn't even face the Cardinals last season, he's
had great success against the Cardinals, but getting him back
within that offense and how much better the forty nine
(23:49):
Ers can be overall this season.
Speaker 6 (23:52):
Yeah, he's sort of symbolic of the team overall and that,
you know, just the beat up, fatigue team last year.
And you know, McCaffrey's issues started in the summer with
a with an achilles injury that he had a hard
time shaking, but he eventually did. And then you know,
(24:12):
your listeners will probably remember a snow game in Buffalo
where it looked like McCaffrey was kind of coming out
of his funk. He looked like himself, he was on
his way to a big day and then sort of
had a freak knee injury where he was tripped up
sort of a shoe string tackle and felt very hard
on the knee and suffered a not a rare injury
(24:35):
but one that you know, isn't all that common for
NFL running backs. It just sort of kind of typified
the forty nine ers season, his season. But you know,
his point in the spring was that he just wanted
to make it through the spring healthy, take part in
every OTA practice, every mini camp practice and he did that,
(24:56):
and so I think that that was a big confidence
boost for him. I think it was a big confidence
boost for the offense. Like I mentioned, you know, he
scored twenty something touchdowns in twenty three and they really
missed him in the red zone this past season. So
that alone, just being more confident that you can score touchdowns,
(25:18):
score six points instead of three when you're in the
deep red zone, I think that's going to be a
big boost to everybody.
Speaker 5 (25:25):
We've gone around fifteen minutes with that, with barely even
talking about the quarterback. Brock Purty obviously gets his contract extension,
and I feel like when you look at brock Party
in the early part of his career, even though it's
still very young, you always have that mister irrelevant title
tack to him. Now that he has this contract extension
and is not getting paid like mister irrelevant gets paid,
(25:47):
I think that the title starts to kind of get
put to the side. What does a successful twenty twenty
five season look like for brock Party, I mean.
Speaker 6 (25:55):
It's it looks a lot like his last couple of seasons.
I think that the one the one issue with Purdy
is that his touchdown. The interception ratio, which which isn't bad,
but that's an area where he can improve. There's still
too many interceptions, you know, you know, especially for an
(26:22):
efficient offense. Now I say that he counter balances that
nicely with a lot of big plays. I mean the
knock on Purty just from the surface is that he's
not very big. He doesn't have a very big arm,
and you'd think that he's mister checkdown. Well he's not.
He usually leads the league in yards per attempt. He
(26:45):
really does push the ball downfield. But in pushing the
ball downfield, it does lead to I want to see
a lot of interceptions, but probably more than the forty
nine ers would like. And so that's that's a big question.
And the question, you know, it relates to Ayuk, and
that's a very good tandem. That's a very good deep
(27:06):
ball tandem for the forty nine ers. And when Ayuk
isn't in the rotation, teams tend to play a lot
more man coverage against the forty nine ers and that's
not a pretty specialty. So it has a real sort
of domino effect on the whole scheme when certain guys
are out. So that's why Pierce All Ricky Piersall is
(27:28):
such an important component. I mentioned Jacob Cowing he had
a really nice spring in those guys. If if Ayuk
is out for a month or maybe even six weeks,
can those guys kind of duplicate some of the routes,
some of the danger that Ayuk presents to defenses so
that they're not aggressive playing a lot of man demand,
(27:51):
which was the case for for most of last season.
Speaker 4 (27:56):
Matt, good stuff.
Speaker 1 (27:57):
Appreciate the time, all the information here, and again want
to remind everyone the debut novel crime novel Muddy the Water,
great summer read, and then follow Matt's work on the
athletic It's going to be an interesting season ahead, not
only for the forty nine ers map, but I think
the Cardinals and maybe the entire NFC West to try
to figure out who's going to come out on top.
Speaker 6 (28:18):
Yeah, you're right, and I agree with you. The early
part of the season will certainly be important and set
the tone for the rest.
Speaker 1 (28:27):
Appreciate it, Matt. Yeah, who can get off to a
good start is going to be key for every team. Matt,
really appreciate it and look forward to seeing you this season.
Speaker 6 (28:36):
Okay, thanks a lot, Thanks for having me on.
Speaker 1 (28:38):
First time speaking with Matt Zach and I appreciate his
time first of all and all of the information. And
I do believe that I am going to go find
Muddy the water. I am very intrigued with a crime
novel in which, as he mentioned, it's not autobiographical, but
because it's a reporter who's i won't say a serial killer,
(29:01):
but committed to murder and all of a sudden is
not working for a newspaper and trying to lay low to.
Speaker 5 (29:08):
Get it, I'm sure if we haven't read it yet
and what we're going to, I'm sure it's going to
provide a different outlook too into how some reporters in
different fields think, because just the thought process about it.
Speaker 3 (29:19):
We're obviously in the sports.
Speaker 5 (29:20):
Field, but doing something along those lines is totally different.
And it's also a different writing style for somebody who
writes for the athletic who it's a little bit more
game stories, a little bit more features. This is going
to be a different form of storytelling, and as storytellers
are ourselves, I'm sure we could appreciate.
Speaker 1 (29:35):
That the story that we told towards the end of
that interview the fact that we took darn near the
entire interview before we brought up QB one for San Francisco.
But I do believe the fact that teams if you're smart,
because it gets more expensive the longer you wait, and
then it becomes a distraction if it gets into training camp.
(29:56):
But the forty nine ers, we're smart taking care of
party George Kittle and for Fred Warner. But the fact
that you get those questions done now before your off
season break and then training camp, you just focus on
x's and oh is not worried about I'm worth this
or how old do we fit this guy into the
salary cap? Now, you take care of that as soon
(30:17):
as possible, like the Cardinals did with Trey McBride, so
it doesn't become a talking point every single day during
training camp.
Speaker 5 (30:25):
With Trade McBride, with Buddha Baker getting his contract extension,
with Yell Defrojold, James Connors, David Collins. The Cardinals have
done a really solid job under Monti Austin Ford of
making sure that they get their guys under contract and
making sure that they're treated well in this facility. So
to see something like that good on the Niners for
recognizing what their players mean. George Kittle does a lot
(30:47):
more than just provide on the field. He does a
lot off the field, the tight end university stuff that
he does, just the person that he is with his
personality and how a lot of media outlets love covering
him with Kyle Huschak bringing him back as well, knowing
how much the juice meant to that fan base. There's
things like that where good front offices recognize the talents
(31:10):
that they have and that the forty nine ers have
done a great job of being a successful front Officer's
a reason why this is the first time since twenty
twenty where they haven't been in the postseason. They do
a great job at recognizing talent. They found a diamond
in the rough in Brock Party, and now they honored
mister Irrelevant with a pretty relevant and expensive contract.
Speaker 1 (31:30):
Cardinals will see Brock Party in company for the first
time Week three in San Francisco. The forty nine Ers
will be at State Farm Stadium in Week eleven. One
one particular matchup and we didn't bring it up with Matt,
but I do want to bring it up here on
Cardinals Cover two, and that is Week three. Provided knock
on wood, everyone is healthy, you will have eighteen year
(31:52):
veteran Kalis Campbell going up against sixteen year veteran tackle
Trent Williams. The fact that they are still in the league,
and not just still in the league, but playing very,
very good football. You're lucky if you can get double
digit years in the NFL. But approaching a second full
(32:14):
decade for these two, I'm I'm gonna be paying a
little bit more attention to that wherever Kalais might be
lining up along that line of scrimmage.
Speaker 5 (32:22):
Let alone double digit years in the NFL. You're lucky
if you get to a second contract in the NFL.
For a lot of these players, this is the most
challenging league for a reason. So to see Kalais in
QRE eighteen Trent Williams in year sixteen. Trent Williams is
still one of the most feared offensive linemen. There's a
(32:43):
reason why he has that enforcer nickname. He's somebody that
is very you know. I remember growing up and watching
him in Washington and seeing what Trent Williams did there.
There was no offensive lineman I hated watching teams go
up against than when he was out there because he's
a brick wall. He does not let anything get by him.
(33:04):
But to see that that that that one on one matchup,
when it does happen, I'm excited to see who gets
the best.
Speaker 1 (33:11):
Of who, and it could be where they get the
best of each other. I mean it becomes maybe a
stalemate or one guy does really well week three and
then it's up to the other guy in week eleven
to come back and even the score.
Speaker 5 (33:22):
All I hope is that if they decide to put
Kalays on that side of the line, Dalvin Tomlinson up
the middle, whatever whatever it takes to to stuff the run.
That's that's also gonna be a difference. We talked about
Christian McCaffrey stats earlier in the game. He hasn't gone
up against this kind of Cardinals defensive line. You have
Darius Robinson. He hasn't met Darius Robinson before, at least
(33:44):
on the football field. Now that's gonna happen. Walter Nolen third,
with his lateral quickness that continues to be talked about,
and how.
Speaker 3 (33:51):
Twitchy he is on the field.
Speaker 5 (33:53):
Just the explosiveness he plays the game with.
Speaker 3 (33:55):
That's gonna be something.
Speaker 1 (33:56):
L J.
Speaker 5 (33:57):
Collier is coming back, Justin Jones is coming back, Kawai's Campbell.
There's so many different pieces that. Yes, when Christian McCaffrey
was with the forty nine ers, Cardinals still have JJ Watt.
I understand that, but this is now a collective unit
of really strong, talented individuals.
Speaker 1 (34:13):
A different looking Cardinals defense, a different looking forty nine
Ers defense. As we are now two thirds of our
way through our tour of the NFC West, We've talked Seahawks,
We've talked forty nine Ers. Next up next week, the
Los Angeles Rams.
Speaker 3 (34:27):
We got to ask about how the trip to Malli went.
Speaker 1 (34:29):
Yeah, we gotta figure out how the Cardinals can figure
out a way.
Speaker 4 (34:34):
Maybe it's maybe it's Canada.
Speaker 5 (34:37):
Maybe it is Canada. I'll go to Canada.
Speaker 1 (34:40):
I'll throw it out there and we're gonna make that work.
I mean, if the Rams can go to Maui, I
don't know if we can.
Speaker 3 (34:46):
Why don't we just go to Los Angeles?
Speaker 1 (34:48):
To Los Angeles, San Diego, been there, done that before.
But yeah, teams are doing it, or at least the
door is open now for teams to hold mini camp elsewhere.
Speaker 5 (34:57):
And that's gonna be something that years down the line, sure,
we're going to start to see it become a ticketed.
The NFL is a business, so if training camp or
mini camp rather becomes ticketed, that could be something that
could be interesting. But I do know that Cardinals camp
at State Farm Stadium for training camp. Those are free tickets,
free parking. Everything's on Azycardinals dot com for all that information,
(35:19):
asycardinals dot com, slash camp tixs tix for free access
to head to State Farm Stadium to watch your Cardinals
get ready for the twenty twenty five season and to
watch sech work. I'll be right there on the sidelines.
If you see me or CRAIGGREELU, make sure to say
what's up.
Speaker 4 (35:35):
Speaking of work, You've got a lot of work to do.
Speaker 5 (35:38):
Just because we're back from July fourth, work doesn't stop.
We're still working over July PI.
Speaker 4 (35:43):
It does it?
Speaker 6 (35:43):
Does it?
Speaker 1 (35:44):
The NFL never stops, and neither does Zach Ersman.
Speaker 5 (35:47):
Nope, which is why everyone should go check out Azycardins
dot com for all the latest information.
Speaker 4 (35:51):
Well done.
Speaker 1 (35:51):
On that note, we will put a lid on this
edition of Cardinals Cover two presented by Hyundai probably partner
the Arizona Cardinals As always, special thanks to our executive
producer Jim MoMA Henro, our associate producer Cuddy Fincher for
Zach Gershman, I'm Craig Rayalloup. We'll talk to you next
time you're on Cardinals.
Speaker 3 (36:06):
Cover two
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