May 7, 2025 • 36 mins
Ep. 881 - Two weeks after they heard their names selected, the Arizona Cardinals’ seven-player draft class arrives at the Dignity Health Training Center on Thursday. Ahead of rookie minicamp, which also will include a half dozen undrafted free agents and a handful of tryout players, Craig Grialou and Zach Gershman discuss who they are most looking forward to seeing on the field. Obviously, first-round defensive lineman Walter Nolen III is a given. And then there’s cornerback Will Johnson, how does he carry himself? What about outside linebacker Jordan Burch, does he look the part? Does linebacker Cody Simon command the field? And what about the undrafted rookies, might one or more impress?
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:04):
With rookies due to arrive in town. Who are we
most excited to see on the field? Welcome Bird Gang.
On today's show, Zach Ershman joins me, two weeks worth
of waiting is just about over draft picks, undrafted rookie
free agents to the new faces. It's time to get
excited about the rookie class. If you weren't already. It's
Cardinals Cover two, Episode eight eighty one, and it starts now.
Speaker 2 (00:29):
Welcome to Cardinals Cover two.
Speaker 3 (00:31):
Who to Baker? What Heart?
Speaker 1 (00:33):
What rent?
Speaker 3 (00:34):
This guy's unbelievable.
Speaker 2 (00:36):
Cardinals Cover two is presented by Hyundai, proud partner of
the Arizona Cardinals, and by Arizona Cardinals Podcast. Visit Azycardinals
dot Com slash podcast.
Speaker 3 (00:48):
He's ad the ten half of five.
Speaker 1 (00:50):
He's it again, So more hurry magic whow.
Speaker 2 (00:54):
Here's Craig Griolo.
Speaker 1 (01:00):
So before we get on with what we're going to
talk about here on Wednesday, I just want to say this,
something big is happening. And I'll raise my hand saying
I don't know what it is. I just know something
is going on here inside the Dignity Health Arizona Cardinals
Training Center. I know Zach, you've been a part of
it and you are very good about not saying what
(01:22):
is going on. But let me just say this bird
Gang again, I have no idea what's going on, but
there is a lot of activity and sometimes it involves players,
and sometimes it does not involve players.
Speaker 3 (01:34):
And that's when I step in. When it doesn't involve players.
We have a lot of amazing things that are in
the that are about to take off for lack of
a better term, and that's something that is exciting. This
is the time of year, you know, we're you're no
longer starting to think about the draft and the free
agency and what has happened. You're not thinking about what
(01:55):
is going to happen, and it's an exciting time in
this building.
Speaker 1 (01:59):
Creative juices are following, and we'll just kind of leave
it at that. Again, I'm I'm I'm in the dark
as many of you. So before I say anything more,
get Zack into any trouble. Let's just get down with
the show.
Speaker 3 (02:12):
See, because you said, like, I do a good job
in not telling people things, and yeah, I do a
good job at keeping some secrets, but if you keep
asking some questions, I might crack a little.
Speaker 1 (02:21):
So you are easily breakable, Is that's what you're saying.
Speaker 3 (02:24):
I'm just like a rocket ship, just like taking off
into the into the universe, and you know, sometimes i
might go crash and fall. Other times I'm just keep
on sorry, rocket ship.
Speaker 1 (02:34):
That's a that's a great metaphor soaring.
Speaker 3 (02:38):
That's some high school musical stuff.
Speaker 1 (02:40):
All right, before Zach breaks out into tune, how about
we talk football? What we can talk about here on
Cardinals Cover two presented by Hyundai, probably partner of the
Arizona Cardinals. Rocky Minicamp begins on Friday. The rookies arrive
on Thursday. Physicals. Hey, this is what the building looks like.
This is where you're is. Here's your uniform, some equipment,
(03:03):
and then we'll hear from a lot of the rookies
on Thursday and Friday. But the big thing is is
we have seen these players on film, we have seen
them during the draft process, we've seen them on Draft Day.
But the next step is to see them on the
field and that comes on Friday, And yeah, I think
there's some excitement. It's not a twelve player draft class.
(03:25):
It's a seven player draft class with some undrafted rookie
free agents and a handful of tryout players. And let's
be clear, Friday is in this entire weekend. It's no veterans,
so the rookies have the building to themselves. You're in
shorts and T shirts, you're not in full pads, you're
not going full speed, but the mind will be racing
(03:48):
at one hundred miles an hour for all of these rookies.
Speaker 3 (03:51):
So it is the heart because there's a lot of
nervousness that's going to be going on. This is the
player's first opportunity to make that first impression. As in
our Zona Cardinal, a lot of these players, through the
conversations in the pre draft process and during the scouting
combine and during thirty visits, they are trying to impress Mani,
Austin for and Jonathan Gannon as prospects. What can I
(04:12):
bring to the table? Now talk is done, it's a
matter of what are you able to do? And it's
not that talk is gonna be or when you talk
and talk you walk the wall. It's not that their
play is going to define them over these next three
four days. Once they're in the building. Over the rookie
menting camp, weekend, they'll have parts of OTAs in training
camp to also have that opportunity. But that doesn't mean
(04:35):
that first impressions don't last. And I think back to
when Rabbit Taylor Demerson came into the building and man,
did his personality just radiate throughout the entire facility. It
was something that you could tell that this guy can
be a star, that he's eager to learn and he's
willing to learn from Buddha Baker. And then when his
time came in when Jalen Thompson was injured for a
(04:56):
handful of games and Rabbit needed to start, there was
a lot of confidence in what he was able to
bring to the table. And that wasn't a surprise to
a lot of us because we saw during rookie mini
camp how the excitement he came in. He was bouncing
around all over the place, pun intended, everything was, you know,
was was clear from the jump. So first impressions do last.
Speaker 1 (05:17):
Rabbit was very comfortable, whether it was here in studio
before the media, out on that football field, and again
we assume in the classroom we're not a part of
those conversations, but it does bring a good example to
the forefront. All right, rabbit made a good first impression
a year ago. Which rookie, whether it's a drafted rookie
or an undrafted rookie, who are you looking forward to seeing,
(05:40):
whether on that football field or maybe an interaction here
inside the building.
Speaker 3 (05:45):
I would I know we're going to see a lot
of Will Johnson, and that's going to be the talk.
Will Johnson, Walt Nolan, the third those players are going
to be a part of that conversation. I'm really looking
forward to Jordan Birch because I think he is the
player in this draft class that is not being discussed
nearly enough. We think about it here. The outside linebacker
(06:08):
room was probably one b to the defensive line room
in too in terms of the union that needed the
most help. And you bring in Josh Sweat, awesome, fantastic.
You're gonna have a healthy bjo Jelari. Hopefully if his
recovery continues to go as scheduled, awesome, he comes back.
Those are great prospects, Those are great players you have
(06:29):
in the building. Baron Browning, Zaven Collins, you were able
to see climpses of is now he's going into his
third year at the outside linebacker position. But Jordan Birch
is coming in and he is a big body guy,
six foot four, two hundred and ninety something pounds if
I'm not mistaken, And to see him coming off the edge.
He had some times during his time at Oregon where
he had his hand in the dirt, but if you
(06:50):
have him standing off the edge not having his hand
in the dirt, just with the ability to pass, rush
and fly, I'm very excited to see what he brings
to the table.
Speaker 1 (06:57):
I think you're onto something as far as Jordan not
being taught enough about even though you were the third
of the seven picks selected and in a room in
which yeah, he added Josh Swt you resigned Baron Browning,
but you really don't quite know. As far as an
edge rusher, Daven Collins is kind of in a category
by himself in that room because he does so much.
(07:19):
He fills so many different roles, play so many different positions.
But it's a good one for you. You brought up
Will Johnson, and of course to me, that's the player
that immediately came to mind, not because of what he
can do on the field, but I'm curious, how does
he carry himself because he is one very confident We
heard that in his post draft conference call, and then
(07:42):
the chip on the shoulder that he has falling from
the first round to the second round, and not early
in the second round, but pick forty seven. Do we
see that? Does it manifests itself amongst us, whether that's
the media, his fellow teammates, the coaches on the field.
What is Will john Watson look like?
Speaker 3 (08:02):
And I think we have to we have to do
our due diligence of not trying to compare him to
some of the other personalities that are in that room,
because we saw very confident Will Johnson, but we also
saw a very frustrated Will Johnson. And when Maximella was
selected at pick forty one, if I'm not mistaken by
the Arizona Cardinals after they traded back in the second
(08:23):
round of the twenty twenty four NFL drafts, he was
selling me on that call, I'm a lockdown corner. And
we saw his personality, you know, start to radiate. And
then we saw Elijah Jones who came into the building
and just how his mentals were discussed in a way
that was very similar to Garrett Williams and you're starting
to think to yourself, like, Okay, Will Johnson right now
(08:43):
is coming in with the reputation of being a first
round pick, so there's a lot of excitement and a
lot of hype surrounding him. How he carries himself is
going to be very important because all positions, all starting
roles in that quarterback room are up for grabs right now.
There will be competition come July August and then into
(09:04):
week one in September. So I'm also very interested to
see it. I just when I think about what can
we learn from these rookie mini camps. Everybody's going to
be trying to have their you know, put their best
foot forward. Everyone's gonna be trying to do the best
to make that solid first impression. But it's also how
much can they pick up and learn from this weekend that,
(09:24):
you know, when we get to reintroduce ourselves to them
come training camp, we see how much they actually picked up.
Speaker 1 (09:30):
And Will's wearing number zero, and he's wearing zero for
a reason. On the subjects of Will Johnson, Bucky Brooks
on NFL dot Com listed ten perfect player team fits
in terms of culture and scheme. Ten of the two
hundred and fifty seven players drafted, and on that list,
(09:51):
Bucky included Will Johnson. And this is what Bucky wrotes.
Jonathan Gannon's vision and break scheme perfectly matches Johnson's skills
as a ball hawking cover corner with superb instincts, awareness,
and diagnostic skills. Then Bucky added this, the Cardinals defense
features several zone based concepts that will enable Johnson to
(10:11):
produce turnovers and a scheme that encourages him to play
aggressively in a sea ball get ball manner. And to me, Zach,
that's the next step for this Cardinals not defense. Cardinals
secondary get the ball, whether that's a interception or a
pass defense. Can they get their hands on more footballs? Yes,
(10:33):
the pass rush will certainly help and improve pass rush,
but can we see more knockdowns that ball hitting the
ground as opposed to the ball getting caught Exactly?
Speaker 3 (10:44):
There needs to be a little bit more physicality, And
I know that in a league where you know, the
official sometimes can be a little bit flag happy against
some of the defensive backs, and defensive pass interferences are
called a lot more often than the other side of
the ball. There's a little bit of that hesitancy from
some of the defensive backs at Michigan. Will Johnson played
(11:04):
with such physicality and such violence that he fits that
mold into exactly what JG and Nick Rolis are looking
for out there. He had three pick sixes during his
time at Michigan while only allowing two total touchdowns, which
is incredibly impressive to have more touchdowns yourselves than touchdowns allowed.
And the thing is, though he had no issue going
up and grabbing the ball and jumping in front of
(11:26):
a defender or in front of a receiver. I think back,
and it's funny that this is the way that it is.
When I think Will Johnson, I think about that game
against Ohio State where he jumps the route in front
of Marvin Harrison Junior, who is an Ohio State wide
receiver and intercepts it in one of the most crucial
games at least in that rivalry's history. So to see
that now that's going to be taking place at practice,
(11:47):
I think that that's going to make Marvin Harrison Junior
a better wide receiver because he's going to have to
warrant to play with that physicality and add a little
bit more. I don't want to say effort, because I
don't want to question that from MHJ. But that ability
to play a little bit. We're tough on the outside
when you're going up against a cornerback, because we saw
that there were times where against Jalen Ramsey, against some
of the other cornerbacks that MHJA had to go against,
(12:09):
they sometimes had their way with him. And whether that
was because he was a rookie was still learning how
cornerbacks are going to be guarding him, or however it is,
I think that that's going to be both important for
Marvin and for Will in their next step of their development.
Speaker 1 (12:23):
And with the cornerback, I'd much rather have them play
aggressive and be told to dial it back because you
can't get that handsy on Sundays, you are going to
get flag. But there is a way to be aggressive
without drawing that penalty. And I think that's something Will
Johnson will have to learn. If he does, maybe he
doesn't have to learn it, maybe just a natural fit
(12:44):
to Bucky Brooks's point on NFL dot Com to where
he does fit within this scheme and fit within the NFL.
I just find it interesting that you brought up Ohio
state highlights, not any Penn State highlights. Will Johnson playing
against the Nitney Lions.
Speaker 3 (12:58):
I just don't remember, remember, Okay, I don't remember those.
And I'm like, not even joking, like.
Speaker 1 (13:05):
You've blocked it out of your memory.
Speaker 3 (13:06):
I've really When I think of Michigan, I think of
that twenty nineteen white out game when Jim Harbaugh's calling
the time out before the first snap of the game.
I don't think about it. And Will Johnson was on
the team then.
Speaker 1 (13:17):
So okay, fair enough. Two other players that I kind
of think about. What what are you laughing about over there? No,
just it always comes back to Penn State somehow. So
we are we are very happy you bring up Ohio State.
How about Cody Simon? How does he command the field?
And again we're talking about a dozen players or so,
but first impression, can he come in, Yes, he's a
(13:38):
fourth round pick, but can he come in, pick up
the playbook, learn in the classroom and take those learnings
out on the football field to where he's not swimming,
not thinking, he's just reacting. And all of a sudden,
these coaches think, hey, you know what, there might be
a possibility of Cody coming in and being our day
one inside linebacker perhaps where that Grain Dot the ten
(14:00):
other guys in position for this before the snap. But
again it's what he does this weekend. Is it not
too big for him the role that we all envision
him to have, perhaps for the Cardinals.
Speaker 3 (14:14):
I don't think so. I don't think it'll be too big. Look,
Cody Simon very similar to Will Johnson and Marvin Harrison
Junior and Walter Nolan. They State Farm Stadium is only
gonna seat sixty five thousand plus seats. They played at
the Horseshoe, which sat over one hundred thousand people, So
that's nearly double the size. And that's how it is
(14:34):
at most major colleges. That's not a slight at State
Farm Stadium because it also makes like in Financial Field
and Arrowhead Stadium and Hallmark Stadium for the or high
Mark Stadium rather for the Buffalo Bills. It makes all
these stadiums who look very small. It's just the way
that colleges are able to pack everybody in with zero
regard for comfort. You're going there for the collegiate ball.
Speaker 1 (14:54):
But he's so used to.
Speaker 3 (14:55):
Playing in high pressure environments. He just played in the
National championship was the green dot in a National championship game.
I think coming in rookie mini camp, he's gonna be
able to a lot of the guys. Yeah, there's gonna
be nerves, there's gonna be some excitement that's gonna be
there too. But there's a reason why the Cardinals were
able to nab him there in the fourth round, and
we're able to have that confidence. And because we're starting
(15:15):
to see now the trickle down effect of post draft
free agency, how are teams bringing in some guys, Trades
that are being made, you know, different transactions throughout around
the league. If the Cardinals want to bring back a
guy like Kaisier White or find another inside linebacker, they could.
They haven't yet because I think that there's some confidence
in what Cody Simon can bring to the table.
Speaker 1 (15:35):
And whether that is Week one or later on in
the season. But a Day three pick coming in to
play meaningful snaps is not unusual. Chad Ruter nfl dot
Com named sixteen Day three picks he believes can compete
for starter snaps as rookies, and he noted in this article,
which I found fascinating zachly that last season there were
(15:57):
eleven of the one hundred and fifty seven Day three
selections that started eight or more games. That was up
from one from the twenty twenty three class, down from
sixteen in twenty twenty two. So you're looking on average
about a dozen or so players on Day three that
if you're lucky enough to hit on that not all
of a sudden, you've got a starter or a rotation,
(16:19):
a key rotation piece, not only in year one but
hopefully for years to come. And we're projecting here about
Cody Simon, but can he be that guy as an
inside linebacker who maybe doesn't have the physicals traits, the speed,
the athleticism, but it's the instincts And that's what we've
heard about Cody Simons is his instincts. And yes, you
(16:41):
don't have Kayzier White here anymore. And whether or not
he comes back, I think with a passing day it's
less and less likely, unfortunately for our man Cody Fincher
over here on the other side of the glass. But again,
you're looking for something different, and if this defense is
going to be different and maybe a pro twotent different scheme,
(17:02):
you might have less inside linebackers, especially if it's Mac
Wilson Senior and Cody Simon as your two guys, and
Mac does what Mac does, and he could be anywhere
on the line of scrimmage or dropping into covers.
Speaker 3 (17:12):
Well, I think it's also fair as the Cardinals are
taking this next step year number three under jg Imani,
Asin Ford and defensive coordinator Nick Rowis, it would it
also be a surprise if they just need a new voice,
a fresh voice, somebody that's different than what Kaizer White
brought to the table. I love Kaizer White, and I
thought he did a great job as the Green Dot
the past two years. To respect he had of his teammates,
(17:33):
there's a reason why he was a two time captain.
But Cody Simon also had that similarly as a team
captain at Ohio State. Now he gets to come in
here and compete for that spot to be the Green Dot.
You also can't forget about it Keem Davis Gaither. There's
a reason why they brought him in early on in
the free agency cycle, why they were able to inculd
deal with the out with the inside linebacker from the
Cincinnati Bengals. However, when I look at it, Cody Simon
(17:56):
it's a lot of the intangibles that instincts, the communication factor.
Those are things that he excelled at at Ohio State
that I believe have nothing to do about the next
level of making it. The skill set is different when
you're making that jump from college to the NFL, but
when it comes to your instincts and your communication, your
communication skills, I believe that they need to be there,
(18:17):
no matter if it's in high school, college or in
the NFL.
Speaker 1 (18:20):
On the subjects of Cody Simon in this NFL dot
com article, they note that Simon can drop into coverage
effectively looks like he's shot out of a cannon. To
use your words, you're phrasing there, Zach Whin blitzing the
a gap or coming off the edge. And then Chad
noted that a fact that he expects Cody Simon to
be a factor on special teams and should be lining
(18:41):
up with the ones at some point in the season,
if not the opener. Again, it is a tall order.
It is going to be a difficult task. But you're
talking about someone at Ohio State who started a two
year starter team captain, but played sixty games over his
five years and has the perfect mentor next to him
(19:03):
in that room in mac Wilson Senior. So if there's
someone that can do it, I see no reason why
it can't be Cody Simon based off where he went
to school, what he did at Ohio State and coming
in here where there is an opening, if you will,
there is a potential role for him to step into.
Now it's on him to get to that point.
Speaker 3 (19:22):
There's also a respect factor there, he said in his
interview after the draft, in our conference phone call with him,
when when we asked him about mac Wilson Senior announcing
his selection from Mexico, and he said, man, I watched
mac Wilson when I was in high school, which Mack
then retweeted my tweet zach Asy cards and said, well
well done, thank you and said, uh, how you definitely
(19:46):
thought he was saying, you know, and now he feels
like he's getting so much older. But there's that respect
factor there between Cody knowing that he gets to come
in look up to somebody like MacWilson Senior and also
was able to see and we'll see and we'll hear
about through conversation with Mac about how the Cardinals were
able to utilize them in different ways. There's a chance
that the Cardinals see what a Keem Davis gather and
(20:06):
Michael Walker as well, who they brought in from the
Washington Commanders, who both of those guys have not played
a lot of defensive snaps, mostly special teams roles. Now
they both all three of them get to compete to
join Mac Wilson as a starter. It's going to be
a very interesting competition. I think that there's a lot
of position groups you can start to show in and
pencil in who you think is going to be a starter.
(20:27):
I think that inside liback room is going to be
one that literally will go down until week one.
Speaker 1 (20:31):
And we've said this before, echo winning JAG's comments, it
doesn't matter once you start practice. It doesn't matter how
you got here. You're here, whether you're an incumbent, whether
you're a free agent, whether you're a draft pick regardless
of where you're drafted, or you're an undrafted rookie. You're
here for a reason. Now all bets are off, everyone
(20:52):
starts from zero. Now becomes how well do you pick
things up? How well do you translate those learnings out
on football field? And yeah, some guys will have a
longer leash based off their contract status, their seniority where
they were selected. But if you're not holding up your end,
it doesn't matter if you're a Day one pick or
a Day two pick. If someone on Day three passes
(21:14):
you by, you're passed by. And now all of a sudden,
you got to catch up.
Speaker 3 (21:17):
Okay, think about that inside or that defensive line room.
Dante Stills was a six round guy, and I think
that first season everyone's starting to say, all right, well,
just the pieces that the Arizona Cardinals have Dante Stills,
he might have overperformed, he might have exceeded some expectations
that first season. Next year, they're gonna revamp the defensive
line room. We'll see what ends up happening. You keep
Roy Lopez, you bring back L J. Collier, you sign
(21:40):
Justin Jones and below Nichols, and you draft Darius Robinson.
All Right, it might be looking a little bit bleak
for Dante Stills. Look what he was able to do.
He was able to maximize his opportunity earn a lot
of starts through the injuries. Now we're unfortunate to Justin
Jones and Below Nichols and Darius Robinson. He did a
great job as that that trio with him, LJ and Lopez.
(22:01):
Now you know, a similar conversation is starting to be
had with Dante again. What is that defensive line room
going to look like? Because now you have Walt Nolan,
the third that's coming in. You brought back Kalayas Campbell
after a handful of years from his time in the Valley,
You bring in Dalvin Tomlinson, and you have a returning
Justin Jones of Baal Nichols. It's starting to look a
little bit bleak again for a guy like Dante Stills.
(22:22):
But he showed and he proved I think better out
of any the best out of anybody in that fifty
three man locker room. Just how pointless your draft status
is comes Sunday, because if you're able to come in
and you're able to make an impact and deliver. When
Dante Stills had the five sacks he had last year,
not a single time where we like, wow, that's a
sixth round pick that did that. Right, that's a defensive
(22:43):
lineman for the Arizona Cardinals who continues to exceed expectations.
Speaker 1 (22:47):
Another draft pick that I'm curious about because He's going
to be the only one in the room, at least
based off the list that I have seen, and that
is Hayden Connor, an interior offensive lineman. Cardinals did sign
three undrafted rookies on the old line, but they're all tackles,
whether it's left or right. And again, so you're limited
in what you really can see. But does Hayden Connor
(23:07):
show the footwork to be an effective guard, whether that's
on the left side or the right side. How is
he how are his hips as far as moving can
he pull? Again, you're not going full speed, But we
talk about open positions inside linebacker. You brought up guard,
whether that's on the left side or the right side,
Evan Brown? Does he stay on the left? Does he
move to the right? Now, all of a sudden, you've
(23:29):
got a new body, a new name, and yeah, someone
who is selected in the sixth round. More difficult to
make a team when you're that late drafted. But you
just mentioned Dante Stills and situations happened in front of him,
ie injuries allowing him to be a key contributor. And
who's to say that can't be Hayden Connor for a
position right now? That certainly has a question mark, or
(23:51):
at least you penciled in maybe Isaiah Adams, but you're
not quite sure based off what you saw last season,
a couple of starts late, but who's going to be
in the mix for that position.
Speaker 3 (24:02):
Evan Brown was an undrafted guy in twenty eighteen, so
he has the opportunity to come in and look across
the room and say, all right, Kelvin Beacham was the
seventh round player. These are players that have been able
to create and craft a strong career in the NFL
despite their draft status and despite where they went. Obviously,
(24:22):
everybody would love to be the Parashawnson junior and walk
across the stage and get to hug the commissioner and
have that first round moment that only happens for thirty
two different players each year, and that with the league
as big as the NFL, that list gets smaller and
smaller and smaller every single year in terms of how
many players first round guys are still active in the NFL.
(24:44):
But you see so many players out are Day two selections,
Day three selections that continue to have that longevity of
their career. So it doesn't mean and it's how a
lot of teams are built. It's where they're foundation. You're
able to find a star player in the first round,
but your core pieces are day two, Day three guys.
Hayden Connor gets the Joiner room with an undrafted Evan Brown,
(25:05):
a third round pick, and Isaiah Adams a compete for
a role, and also John Gaines who is a fifth
round pick if I'm not mistaken to twenty twenty three.
So that room itself has faced a lot of different
you know, it's been a revolving door at points with
different offensive linemen coming into the room. But Hayden Connor
comes in and he very well could compete for that role.
Speaker 1 (25:24):
Some love for the undrafted rookies who are going to
be in town. I mentioned offensive lineman sign one out
of Ohio State, Josh Fryer, who gets reconnected with his
position coach at Ohio States, and Justin Frye is now
position coach here with the Arizona Cardinals and someone who
did based off reporting, receive a significant signing bonus to
(25:46):
convince him to come to Arizona. Now, all of a sudden,
is he potentially a developmental guy because you're not going
to know what's going to happen at the tackle position,
right tackle after this upcoming season with Joona will Williams
and Kelvin Beacham on one year deals or with Williams
on the last year of a two year contract. So
(26:06):
Josh Bryer, I'm curious on what he might be able
to show, not just this weekend, but this entire offseason,
considering again the connection with his position coach, and then
the investment, the financial investment that was made in him the.
Speaker 3 (26:21):
Year prior to twenty to twenty four, and when they
put a significant investment, to use your word, into an
undrafted rookie, it was to Xavier Weaver, and in that
wide receiver room, Xavier Weaver was only active for a
handful of games, but you could tell that the Cardinals
have any vision for him that was beyond just this
year or just that twenty twenty four season. And I'm
very interested to see what that's going to be in
(26:42):
twenty twenty five with Zay Weaver. However, my point being,
when these players are available, you have to do whatever
you can and that vision. We talk about the role,
how the role on day one could be very different
than day fifteen th very different than Week seven and
even going into the next season, so they might see
something and Josh Friar and say, all right, we have
somebody here that could use a little bit of work.
(27:04):
We're gonna work with him, We're gonna develop him, and
down the line we'll see what he could be. It's
a worthy investment.
Speaker 1 (27:10):
Xavier Weaver made the team Starling Thomas a couple of
years back, uncle, or I should say, undrafted by the
Detroit Lions, but the Cardinals claimed him made the roster.
Amaro de Mercado better example as far as an undrafted
free agent of the Cardinals sign makes the team. In fact,
this little nugget for Mike cum and media relations. Ten
times in the past thirteen years at least one undrafted
(27:34):
free agent has made the Cardinals Week one roster. So
it is possible. Yes, it is a steep hill to climb,
but we've seen it. I just gave you three examples,
two specific Arizona Cardinals undrafted free agents, and you claimed
an undrafted one in Starling Thomas. But those are three names.
(27:54):
We haven't seen quite nearly as much from Xavier Weaver
except for late last season. But at least with Amari
and star. Those are key contributors on offense and defense
and also play some special teams. That's the other aspect
of these rookies that are coming in. How many of
them outside of Keaton Crawford actually have played significant special
(28:15):
teams during their college career.
Speaker 3 (28:16):
I'm not sure how long we've been going, but this
has been the longest we've been on a podcast together
and not mentioned Kean Crawford's name, So so shame on us.
Shame on now. I'm joking. Obviously, Bryson Green, another wide
receiver that the Cardinals have, is undrafted rookie free agent.
He's going to be coming in, and then that's what
it's going to come down to, is what can you
do with that special teams opportunity? That phase of the
(28:36):
game is so important to this staff. Jonathan Gannon always
talks about it, and it is a weekly press conferences.
I remember doing a story on Blake Gilkin and Max
Melton and a handful of the Cardinals defenders who start
and play significant snaps on their side of the ball,
but they also play a key role on special teams.
(28:56):
And I remember Max melon and Blake Gilkin both telling
me that every week they start off their team meeting
when they're going through the goals, their number one goal
is it's the razor goal is to be perfect on
special teams. You do that, everything else is going to
start to fall into place. With these undrafted guys, they
have to understand that when you're in college, you could
kind of graduate to the defensive side the ball or
(29:19):
the offensive side of the ball ball and forego your
opportunities as a special teamer.
Speaker 1 (29:24):
In the NFL. It's not always like that.
Speaker 3 (29:26):
Sometimes this is the only way you're going to be
able to make your money, get your bread. You think
about it with a keem Davis gaither with Michael Walker,
the Cardinals saw something through their special team's ability that
gave him the confidence to say, all right, well, we
want to also see what you could do on the
defensive side of the ball.
Speaker 1 (29:40):
We spent a lot of time in a couple of
different shows in the past. You can go to the
archives to check them out. But we went back and forth, Okay,
who do we expect on this draft class to be
a Day one starter? Well, how about we spin it
and say who's going to be the first rookie to
see the field? It very well could be Keaton Crawford
because the first unit we see on the field is kickoff,
(30:02):
whether that's kickoff or kickoff return, and over one thousand
special team snaps in his career, one thousand special team
snaps in college, and I'm guessing that's across the board.
Maybe not on field goal block, maybe as the outside guy,
but that's someone that if your special teams coordinator, Jeff Rodgers,
(30:22):
you're looking at tape and you're looking at those a
thousand snaps and going, Okay, well, there's a reason he
was on the field for so many of those. How
do we make it work here, whether that is on again,
kickoff punt, or even on field goal.
Speaker 3 (30:35):
One thousand and ten career special team snaps to be yes,
make sure we get not missaking. I'm pretty sure it's
one thy and ten. And it's not just special team
snaps from his time at Nevada. It's also special team
snaps from his time at Texas. He was at Texas
for a handful of years, those teammates with Hayden Conner
and now get and then transferred from Texas to Nevada
(30:58):
or Nevada, I'm gonna be rotating.
Speaker 1 (31:01):
It's Nevada, Nevada, Nevada. How do you say Oregon?
Speaker 3 (31:05):
Oregon?
Speaker 1 (31:06):
Okay, yeah, that one.
Speaker 3 (31:07):
I don't understand how people say orgon that.
Speaker 1 (31:09):
Well, we can talk about when you when you introduce yourself.
Jordan Burge ask him where he went to school, see
how he pronounced, just to see.
Speaker 3 (31:15):
Look during his time in Reno, Heat and Crawford, We're
going to go back to there. He transferred to Reno
because he wanted more opportunities as a secondary as a
safety defensive back and was able to show what he
was able to bring to the table because he was
in a loaded defensive back room. During his time at Texas,
he was mostly a special teams guy. He remained a
(31:36):
special teams guy in Nevada. I said it right there,
special teams guy in Nevada, and he also was able
to develop as a safety. And Mania Ospin for discussed
how they want to be able to see what he's
able to bring to the table. Put him in that
safety room. That's kind of where they hit vision envisioned
him mostly but knowing what he's able to bring as
a special teamer. I asked Mania Austin for how could
(31:59):
you tell when somebody genuinely loves that fastest the game
versus just trying to get in the field. He says,
it's very clear. You just watch him playing, you're able
to see how it's done. Keen Crawford's a guy that
loves that phase of that of the game.
Speaker 1 (32:10):
Keaton tested very well at the Scouting Combine a four
four to one forty among DB's, had the quickest twenty
yard shuttle, tied for the second highest vertical leap, third
fastest three cone. So he is very athletic. And we
mentioned again the special teams. One career blockfield goal, one
career block punt was an honorable mention All Big Twelve
(32:31):
selection in twenty twenty three because of his special teams play.
So if he can do that on this level, meaning
the NFL level, he could have a very successful career
as he waits for his time to play defense and
learn from a Buddha baker at Jalen Thompson in that room, right,
(32:55):
I'm going to have a uniform, and there are some
guys in my room who might not. But because I do, now,
all of a sudden, I'm a snapper two away from
playing defense.
Speaker 3 (33:04):
I'm keenan Crawford, I'm I'm eager to learn from Joey
Blunt as a special team's ace, like Joey Blunt is
as a gunner and through throughout his role, he's one
of the best special teams guys in the league, hands down,
just what he's ableed to how much he puts into
that phase of the game. Joey Blunt, that is now
he and he's also in that safety room. Joey Blunt
(33:25):
might not have had a lot of defensive snaps, although
he did have that interception in the game against Philadelphia
when they went when they went down to uh to
broad Street on New Year's Eve against the Eagles, and
he had that game stealing interception in the end zone.
Beyond that, Joey Blund doesn't have a lot of defensive
opportunities because you have a Jaylen Thompson, because you have
a Buddha Baker, because you have a Rabbit Tato Demerson
(33:47):
who's starting to earn his keeps and that and that
when the defensive back room. If I'm Keenan Crawford, I'm
I'm being a sponge to both Buddha Baker and the
defensive guys, but also to Joey Blunt in the special
team's room.
Speaker 1 (34:00):
It's gonna be a lot of fun to watch. And
then here whether that is from Jonathan Gannon position coaches, teammates,
how are these guys interacting with one another who might
be a little bit of ahead of their teammates even
though maybe they were a Day three pick as opposed
to a Day one pick. And again it's it's gonna
be fun. And speaking of fun, I know, uh, I know,
(34:22):
we're we're taking you away, Zach from a very important duty.
I don't know exactly what it is. I just know
that you are not dressed like we typically dress here
on Monday, three Thursday. Deal. Yeah, it's a it's a
little bit different kind of address. But apparently you're needed
elsewhere I might be.
Speaker 3 (34:40):
But this is fun to be. We have to chat
with the bird gang, talk the ball. This is this
is what it's all about. Everybody in the building would
rather probably have me here.
Speaker 1 (34:50):
Well, that could go could that could be construed in
one of two different ways, so either a negative or
a positive. I would hope it's a positive.
Speaker 3 (34:59):
Hopefully prove I had good information on Cardinals cover two. Uh,
but hey, I appreciate everybody listening regardless, just stay on
the lookout for the next you know, handful of days
and weeks and months and years, because we're gonna have
a lot of important stuff and I'm as broad as
I am for that exact reason. A lot of great
stuff is going to be hitting the Easy Cardinals airwaves
(35:22):
and social channels and the next little bit. So gotta
stay tuned.
Speaker 1 (35:25):
Some good, some fun content ahead and we will have
it for you on Easycardinals dot com. Plus we'll talk
about it here on Cardinals Cover two.
Speaker 3 (35:34):
When I come back, because this is my last Cardinals
Cover two for him for a few weeks.
Speaker 1 (35:38):
That's right. Enjoy your enjoy your outside work, your extra work,
and then the on assignment and there you go. And
we like that. We'd like that everyone likes that phrase.
What happen is always on assignment.
Speaker 3 (35:50):
I just might be in the Caribbean on this assignment.
Speaker 1 (35:52):
But okay, we shall see. You don't need to go
any further than that. All right, get back to work, Zach.
We'll do. On that note, we'll put a lid on
this edition of Cardinals Over two, presented by Hyundai, proud
partner of the Arizona Cardinals. As always, special thanks to
our executive producer Jim Mamahundra, our associate producer Cody Fincher.
For Zach Kershman, I'm Craig Rayolu. We'll talk to you
next time here on Cardinals Cover two.
With rookies due to arrive in town. Who are we
most excited to see on the field? Welcome Bird Gang.
On today's show, Zach Ershman joins me, two weeks worth
of waiting is just about over draft picks, undrafted rookie
free agents to the new faces. It's time to get
excited about the rookie class. If you weren't already. It's
Cardinals Cover two, Episode eight eighty one, and it starts now.
Speaker 2 (00:29):
Welcome to Cardinals Cover two.
Speaker 3 (00:31):
Who to Baker? What Heart?
Speaker 1 (00:33):
What rent?
Speaker 3 (00:34):
This guy's unbelievable.
Speaker 2 (00:36):
Cardinals Cover two is presented by Hyundai, proud partner of
the Arizona Cardinals, and by Arizona Cardinals Podcast. Visit Azycardinals
dot Com slash podcast.
Speaker 3 (00:48):
He's ad the ten half of five.
Speaker 1 (00:50):
He's it again, So more hurry magic whow.
Speaker 2 (00:54):
Here's Craig Griolo.
Speaker 1 (01:00):
So before we get on with what we're going to
talk about here on Wednesday, I just want to say this,
something big is happening. And I'll raise my hand saying
I don't know what it is. I just know something
is going on here inside the Dignity Health Arizona Cardinals
Training Center. I know Zach, you've been a part of
it and you are very good about not saying what
(01:22):
is going on. But let me just say this bird
Gang again, I have no idea what's going on, but
there is a lot of activity and sometimes it involves players,
and sometimes it does not involve players.
Speaker 3 (01:34):
And that's when I step in. When it doesn't involve players.
We have a lot of amazing things that are in
the that are about to take off for lack of
a better term, and that's something that is exciting. This
is the time of year, you know, we're you're no
longer starting to think about the draft and the free
agency and what has happened. You're not thinking about what
(01:55):
is going to happen, and it's an exciting time in
this building.
Speaker 1 (01:59):
Creative juices are following, and we'll just kind of leave
it at that. Again, I'm I'm I'm in the dark
as many of you. So before I say anything more,
get Zack into any trouble. Let's just get down with
the show.
Speaker 3 (02:12):
See, because you said, like, I do a good job
in not telling people things, and yeah, I do a
good job at keeping some secrets, but if you keep
asking some questions, I might crack a little.
Speaker 1 (02:21):
So you are easily breakable, Is that's what you're saying.
Speaker 3 (02:24):
I'm just like a rocket ship, just like taking off
into the into the universe, and you know, sometimes i
might go crash and fall. Other times I'm just keep
on sorry, rocket ship.
Speaker 1 (02:34):
That's a that's a great metaphor soaring.
Speaker 3 (02:38):
That's some high school musical stuff.
Speaker 1 (02:40):
All right, before Zach breaks out into tune, how about
we talk football? What we can talk about here on
Cardinals Cover two presented by Hyundai, probably partner of the
Arizona Cardinals. Rocky Minicamp begins on Friday. The rookies arrive
on Thursday. Physicals. Hey, this is what the building looks like.
This is where you're is. Here's your uniform, some equipment,
(03:03):
and then we'll hear from a lot of the rookies
on Thursday and Friday. But the big thing is is
we have seen these players on film, we have seen
them during the draft process, we've seen them on Draft Day.
But the next step is to see them on the
field and that comes on Friday, And yeah, I think
there's some excitement. It's not a twelve player draft class.
(03:25):
It's a seven player draft class with some undrafted rookie
free agents and a handful of tryout players. And let's
be clear, Friday is in this entire weekend. It's no veterans,
so the rookies have the building to themselves. You're in
shorts and T shirts, you're not in full pads, you're
not going full speed, but the mind will be racing
(03:48):
at one hundred miles an hour for all of these rookies.
Speaker 3 (03:51):
So it is the heart because there's a lot of
nervousness that's going to be going on. This is the
player's first opportunity to make that first impression. As in
our Zona Cardinal, a lot of these players, through the
conversations in the pre draft process and during the scouting
combine and during thirty visits, they are trying to impress Mani,
Austin for and Jonathan Gannon as prospects. What can I
(04:12):
bring to the table? Now talk is done, it's a
matter of what are you able to do? And it's
not that talk is gonna be or when you talk
and talk you walk the wall. It's not that their
play is going to define them over these next three
four days. Once they're in the building. Over the rookie
menting camp, weekend, they'll have parts of OTAs in training
camp to also have that opportunity. But that doesn't mean
(04:35):
that first impressions don't last. And I think back to
when Rabbit Taylor Demerson came into the building and man,
did his personality just radiate throughout the entire facility. It
was something that you could tell that this guy can
be a star, that he's eager to learn and he's
willing to learn from Buddha Baker. And then when his
time came in when Jalen Thompson was injured for a
(04:56):
handful of games and Rabbit needed to start, there was
a lot of confidence in what he was able to
bring to the table. And that wasn't a surprise to
a lot of us because we saw during rookie mini
camp how the excitement he came in. He was bouncing
around all over the place, pun intended, everything was, you know,
was was clear from the jump. So first impressions do last.
Speaker 1 (05:17):
Rabbit was very comfortable, whether it was here in studio
before the media, out on that football field, and again
we assume in the classroom we're not a part of
those conversations, but it does bring a good example to
the forefront. All right, rabbit made a good first impression
a year ago. Which rookie, whether it's a drafted rookie
or an undrafted rookie, who are you looking forward to seeing,
(05:40):
whether on that football field or maybe an interaction here
inside the building.
Speaker 3 (05:45):
I would I know we're going to see a lot
of Will Johnson, and that's going to be the talk.
Will Johnson, Walt Nolan, the third those players are going
to be a part of that conversation. I'm really looking
forward to Jordan Birch because I think he is the
player in this draft class that is not being discussed
nearly enough. We think about it here. The outside linebacker
(06:08):
room was probably one b to the defensive line room
in too in terms of the union that needed the
most help. And you bring in Josh Sweat, awesome, fantastic.
You're gonna have a healthy bjo Jelari. Hopefully if his
recovery continues to go as scheduled, awesome, he comes back.
Those are great prospects, Those are great players you have
(06:29):
in the building. Baron Browning, Zaven Collins, you were able
to see climpses of is now he's going into his
third year at the outside linebacker position. But Jordan Birch
is coming in and he is a big body guy,
six foot four, two hundred and ninety something pounds if
I'm not mistaken, And to see him coming off the edge.
He had some times during his time at Oregon where
he had his hand in the dirt, but if you
(06:50):
have him standing off the edge not having his hand
in the dirt, just with the ability to pass, rush
and fly, I'm very excited to see what he brings
to the table.
Speaker 1 (06:57):
I think you're onto something as far as Jordan not
being taught enough about even though you were the third
of the seven picks selected and in a room in
which yeah, he added Josh Swt you resigned Baron Browning,
but you really don't quite know. As far as an
edge rusher, Daven Collins is kind of in a category
by himself in that room because he does so much.
(07:19):
He fills so many different roles, play so many different positions.
But it's a good one for you. You brought up
Will Johnson, and of course to me, that's the player
that immediately came to mind, not because of what he
can do on the field, but I'm curious, how does
he carry himself because he is one very confident We
heard that in his post draft conference call, and then
(07:42):
the chip on the shoulder that he has falling from
the first round to the second round, and not early
in the second round, but pick forty seven. Do we
see that? Does it manifests itself amongst us, whether that's
the media, his fellow teammates, the coaches on the field.
What is Will john Watson look like?
Speaker 3 (08:02):
And I think we have to we have to do
our due diligence of not trying to compare him to
some of the other personalities that are in that room,
because we saw very confident Will Johnson, but we also
saw a very frustrated Will Johnson. And when Maximella was
selected at pick forty one, if I'm not mistaken by
the Arizona Cardinals after they traded back in the second
(08:23):
round of the twenty twenty four NFL drafts, he was
selling me on that call, I'm a lockdown corner. And
we saw his personality, you know, start to radiate. And
then we saw Elijah Jones who came into the building
and just how his mentals were discussed in a way
that was very similar to Garrett Williams and you're starting
to think to yourself, like, Okay, Will Johnson right now
(08:43):
is coming in with the reputation of being a first
round pick, so there's a lot of excitement and a
lot of hype surrounding him. How he carries himself is
going to be very important because all positions, all starting
roles in that quarterback room are up for grabs right now.
There will be competition come July August and then into
(09:04):
week one in September. So I'm also very interested to
see it. I just when I think about what can
we learn from these rookie mini camps. Everybody's going to
be trying to have their you know, put their best
foot forward. Everyone's gonna be trying to do the best
to make that solid first impression. But it's also how
much can they pick up and learn from this weekend that,
(09:24):
you know, when we get to reintroduce ourselves to them
come training camp, we see how much they actually picked up.
Speaker 1 (09:30):
And Will's wearing number zero, and he's wearing zero for
a reason. On the subjects of Will Johnson, Bucky Brooks
on NFL dot Com listed ten perfect player team fits
in terms of culture and scheme. Ten of the two
hundred and fifty seven players drafted, and on that list,
(09:51):
Bucky included Will Johnson. And this is what Bucky wrotes.
Jonathan Gannon's vision and break scheme perfectly matches Johnson's skills
as a ball hawking cover corner with superb instincts, awareness,
and diagnostic skills. Then Bucky added this, the Cardinals defense
features several zone based concepts that will enable Johnson to
(10:11):
produce turnovers and a scheme that encourages him to play
aggressively in a sea ball get ball manner. And to me, Zach,
that's the next step for this Cardinals not defense. Cardinals
secondary get the ball, whether that's a interception or a
pass defense. Can they get their hands on more footballs? Yes,
(10:33):
the pass rush will certainly help and improve pass rush,
but can we see more knockdowns that ball hitting the
ground as opposed to the ball getting caught Exactly?
Speaker 3 (10:44):
There needs to be a little bit more physicality, And
I know that in a league where you know, the
official sometimes can be a little bit flag happy against
some of the defensive backs, and defensive pass interferences are
called a lot more often than the other side of
the ball. There's a little bit of that hesitancy from
some of the defensive backs at Michigan. Will Johnson played
(11:04):
with such physicality and such violence that he fits that
mold into exactly what JG and Nick Rolis are looking
for out there. He had three pick sixes during his
time at Michigan while only allowing two total touchdowns, which
is incredibly impressive to have more touchdowns yourselves than touchdowns allowed.
And the thing is, though he had no issue going
up and grabbing the ball and jumping in front of
(11:26):
a defender or in front of a receiver. I think back,
and it's funny that this is the way that it is.
When I think Will Johnson, I think about that game
against Ohio State where he jumps the route in front
of Marvin Harrison Junior, who is an Ohio State wide
receiver and intercepts it in one of the most crucial
games at least in that rivalry's history. So to see
that now that's going to be taking place at practice,
(11:47):
I think that that's going to make Marvin Harrison Junior
a better wide receiver because he's going to have to
warrant to play with that physicality and add a little
bit more. I don't want to say effort, because I
don't want to question that from MHJ. But that ability
to play a little bit. We're tough on the outside
when you're going up against a cornerback, because we saw
that there were times where against Jalen Ramsey, against some
of the other cornerbacks that MHJA had to go against,
(12:09):
they sometimes had their way with him. And whether that
was because he was a rookie was still learning how
cornerbacks are going to be guarding him, or however it is,
I think that that's going to be both important for
Marvin and for Will in their next step of their development.
Speaker 1 (12:23):
And with the cornerback, I'd much rather have them play
aggressive and be told to dial it back because you
can't get that handsy on Sundays, you are going to
get flag. But there is a way to be aggressive
without drawing that penalty. And I think that's something Will
Johnson will have to learn. If he does, maybe he
doesn't have to learn it, maybe just a natural fit
(12:44):
to Bucky Brooks's point on NFL dot Com to where
he does fit within this scheme and fit within the NFL.
I just find it interesting that you brought up Ohio
state highlights, not any Penn State highlights. Will Johnson playing
against the Nitney Lions.
Speaker 3 (12:58):
I just don't remember, remember, Okay, I don't remember those.
And I'm like, not even joking, like.
Speaker 1 (13:05):
You've blocked it out of your memory.
Speaker 3 (13:06):
I've really When I think of Michigan, I think of
that twenty nineteen white out game when Jim Harbaugh's calling
the time out before the first snap of the game.
I don't think about it. And Will Johnson was on
the team then.
Speaker 1 (13:17):
So okay, fair enough. Two other players that I kind
of think about. What what are you laughing about over there? No,
just it always comes back to Penn State somehow. So
we are we are very happy you bring up Ohio State.
How about Cody Simon? How does he command the field?
And again we're talking about a dozen players or so,
but first impression, can he come in, Yes, he's a
(13:38):
fourth round pick, but can he come in, pick up
the playbook, learn in the classroom and take those learnings
out on the football field to where he's not swimming,
not thinking, he's just reacting. And all of a sudden,
these coaches think, hey, you know what, there might be
a possibility of Cody coming in and being our day
one inside linebacker perhaps where that Grain Dot the ten
(14:00):
other guys in position for this before the snap. But
again it's what he does this weekend. Is it not
too big for him the role that we all envision
him to have, perhaps for the Cardinals.
Speaker 3 (14:14):
I don't think so. I don't think it'll be too big. Look,
Cody Simon very similar to Will Johnson and Marvin Harrison
Junior and Walter Nolan. They State Farm Stadium is only
gonna seat sixty five thousand plus seats. They played at
the Horseshoe, which sat over one hundred thousand people, So
that's nearly double the size. And that's how it is
(14:34):
at most major colleges. That's not a slight at State
Farm Stadium because it also makes like in Financial Field
and Arrowhead Stadium and Hallmark Stadium for the or high
Mark Stadium rather for the Buffalo Bills. It makes all
these stadiums who look very small. It's just the way
that colleges are able to pack everybody in with zero
regard for comfort. You're going there for the collegiate ball.
Speaker 1 (14:54):
But he's so used to.
Speaker 3 (14:55):
Playing in high pressure environments. He just played in the
National championship was the green dot in a National championship game.
I think coming in rookie mini camp, he's gonna be
able to a lot of the guys. Yeah, there's gonna
be nerves, there's gonna be some excitement that's gonna be
there too. But there's a reason why the Cardinals were
able to nab him there in the fourth round, and
we're able to have that confidence. And because we're starting
(15:15):
to see now the trickle down effect of post draft
free agency, how are teams bringing in some guys, Trades
that are being made, you know, different transactions throughout around
the league. If the Cardinals want to bring back a
guy like Kaisier White or find another inside linebacker, they could.
They haven't yet because I think that there's some confidence
in what Cody Simon can bring to the table.
Speaker 1 (15:35):
And whether that is Week one or later on in
the season. But a Day three pick coming in to
play meaningful snaps is not unusual. Chad Ruter nfl dot
Com named sixteen Day three picks he believes can compete
for starter snaps as rookies, and he noted in this article,
which I found fascinating zachly that last season there were
(15:57):
eleven of the one hundred and fifty seven Day three
selections that started eight or more games. That was up
from one from the twenty twenty three class, down from
sixteen in twenty twenty two. So you're looking on average
about a dozen or so players on Day three that
if you're lucky enough to hit on that not all
of a sudden, you've got a starter or a rotation,
(16:19):
a key rotation piece, not only in year one but
hopefully for years to come. And we're projecting here about
Cody Simon, but can he be that guy as an
inside linebacker who maybe doesn't have the physicals traits, the speed,
the athleticism, but it's the instincts And that's what we've
heard about Cody Simons is his instincts. And yes, you
(16:41):
don't have Kayzier White here anymore. And whether or not
he comes back, I think with a passing day it's
less and less likely, unfortunately for our man Cody Fincher
over here on the other side of the glass. But again,
you're looking for something different, and if this defense is
going to be different and maybe a pro twotent different scheme,
(17:02):
you might have less inside linebackers, especially if it's Mac
Wilson Senior and Cody Simon as your two guys, and
Mac does what Mac does, and he could be anywhere
on the line of scrimmage or dropping into covers.
Speaker 3 (17:12):
Well, I think it's also fair as the Cardinals are
taking this next step year number three under jg Imani,
Asin Ford and defensive coordinator Nick Rowis, it would it
also be a surprise if they just need a new voice,
a fresh voice, somebody that's different than what Kaizer White
brought to the table. I love Kaizer White, and I
thought he did a great job as the Green Dot
the past two years. To respect he had of his teammates,
(17:33):
there's a reason why he was a two time captain.
But Cody Simon also had that similarly as a team
captain at Ohio State. Now he gets to come in
here and compete for that spot to be the Green Dot.
You also can't forget about it Keem Davis Gaither. There's
a reason why they brought him in early on in
the free agency cycle, why they were able to inculd
deal with the out with the inside linebacker from the
Cincinnati Bengals. However, when I look at it, Cody Simon
(17:56):
it's a lot of the intangibles that instincts, the communication factor.
Those are things that he excelled at at Ohio State
that I believe have nothing to do about the next
level of making it. The skill set is different when
you're making that jump from college to the NFL, but
when it comes to your instincts and your communication, your
communication skills, I believe that they need to be there,
(18:17):
no matter if it's in high school, college or in
the NFL.
Speaker 1 (18:20):
On the subjects of Cody Simon in this NFL dot
com article, they note that Simon can drop into coverage
effectively looks like he's shot out of a cannon. To
use your words, you're phrasing there, Zach Whin blitzing the
a gap or coming off the edge. And then Chad
noted that a fact that he expects Cody Simon to
be a factor on special teams and should be lining
(18:41):
up with the ones at some point in the season,
if not the opener. Again, it is a tall order.
It is going to be a difficult task. But you're
talking about someone at Ohio State who started a two
year starter team captain, but played sixty games over his
five years and has the perfect mentor next to him
(19:03):
in that room in mac Wilson Senior. So if there's
someone that can do it, I see no reason why
it can't be Cody Simon based off where he went
to school, what he did at Ohio State and coming
in here where there is an opening, if you will,
there is a potential role for him to step into.
Now it's on him to get to that point.
Speaker 3 (19:22):
There's also a respect factor there, he said in his
interview after the draft, in our conference phone call with him,
when when we asked him about mac Wilson Senior announcing
his selection from Mexico, and he said, man, I watched
mac Wilson when I was in high school, which Mack
then retweeted my tweet zach Asy cards and said, well
well done, thank you and said, uh, how you definitely
(19:46):
thought he was saying, you know, and now he feels
like he's getting so much older. But there's that respect
factor there between Cody knowing that he gets to come
in look up to somebody like MacWilson Senior and also
was able to see and we'll see and we'll hear
about through conversation with Mac about how the Cardinals were
able to utilize them in different ways. There's a chance
that the Cardinals see what a Keem Davis gather and
(20:06):
Michael Walker as well, who they brought in from the
Washington Commanders, who both of those guys have not played
a lot of defensive snaps, mostly special teams roles. Now
they both all three of them get to compete to
join Mac Wilson as a starter. It's going to be
a very interesting competition. I think that there's a lot
of position groups you can start to show in and
pencil in who you think is going to be a starter.
(20:27):
I think that inside liback room is going to be
one that literally will go down until week one.
Speaker 1 (20:31):
And we've said this before, echo winning JAG's comments, it
doesn't matter once you start practice. It doesn't matter how
you got here. You're here, whether you're an incumbent, whether
you're a free agent, whether you're a draft pick regardless
of where you're drafted, or you're an undrafted rookie. You're
here for a reason. Now all bets are off, everyone
(20:52):
starts from zero. Now becomes how well do you pick
things up? How well do you translate those learnings out
on football field? And yeah, some guys will have a
longer leash based off their contract status, their seniority where
they were selected. But if you're not holding up your end,
it doesn't matter if you're a Day one pick or
a Day two pick. If someone on Day three passes
(21:14):
you by, you're passed by. And now all of a sudden,
you got to catch up.
Speaker 3 (21:17):
Okay, think about that inside or that defensive line room.
Dante Stills was a six round guy, and I think
that first season everyone's starting to say, all right, well,
just the pieces that the Arizona Cardinals have Dante Stills,
he might have overperformed, he might have exceeded some expectations
that first season. Next year, they're gonna revamp the defensive
line room. We'll see what ends up happening. You keep
Roy Lopez, you bring back L J. Collier, you sign
(21:40):
Justin Jones and below Nichols, and you draft Darius Robinson.
All Right, it might be looking a little bit bleak
for Dante Stills. Look what he was able to do.
He was able to maximize his opportunity earn a lot
of starts through the injuries. Now we're unfortunate to Justin
Jones and Below Nichols and Darius Robinson. He did a
great job as that that trio with him, LJ and Lopez.
(22:01):
Now you know, a similar conversation is starting to be
had with Dante again. What is that defensive line room
going to look like? Because now you have Walt Nolan,
the third that's coming in. You brought back Kalayas Campbell
after a handful of years from his time in the Valley,
You bring in Dalvin Tomlinson, and you have a returning
Justin Jones of Baal Nichols. It's starting to look a
little bit bleak again for a guy like Dante Stills.
(22:22):
But he showed and he proved I think better out
of any the best out of anybody in that fifty
three man locker room. Just how pointless your draft status
is comes Sunday, because if you're able to come in
and you're able to make an impact and deliver. When
Dante Stills had the five sacks he had last year,
not a single time where we like, wow, that's a
sixth round pick that did that. Right, that's a defensive
(22:43):
lineman for the Arizona Cardinals who continues to exceed expectations.
Speaker 1 (22:47):
Another draft pick that I'm curious about because He's going
to be the only one in the room, at least
based off the list that I have seen, and that
is Hayden Connor, an interior offensive lineman. Cardinals did sign
three undrafted rookies on the old line, but they're all tackles,
whether it's left or right. And again, so you're limited
in what you really can see. But does Hayden Connor
(23:07):
show the footwork to be an effective guard, whether that's
on the left side or the right side. How is
he how are his hips as far as moving can
he pull? Again, you're not going full speed, But we
talk about open positions inside linebacker. You brought up guard,
whether that's on the left side or the right side,
Evan Brown? Does he stay on the left? Does he
move to the right? Now, all of a sudden, you've
(23:29):
got a new body, a new name, and yeah, someone
who is selected in the sixth round. More difficult to
make a team when you're that late drafted. But you
just mentioned Dante Stills and situations happened in front of him,
ie injuries allowing him to be a key contributor. And
who's to say that can't be Hayden Connor for a
position right now? That certainly has a question mark, or
(23:51):
at least you penciled in maybe Isaiah Adams, but you're
not quite sure based off what you saw last season,
a couple of starts late, but who's going to be
in the mix for that position.
Speaker 3 (24:02):
Evan Brown was an undrafted guy in twenty eighteen, so
he has the opportunity to come in and look across
the room and say, all right, Kelvin Beacham was the
seventh round player. These are players that have been able
to create and craft a strong career in the NFL
despite their draft status and despite where they went. Obviously,
(24:22):
everybody would love to be the Parashawnson junior and walk
across the stage and get to hug the commissioner and
have that first round moment that only happens for thirty
two different players each year, and that with the league
as big as the NFL, that list gets smaller and
smaller and smaller every single year in terms of how
many players first round guys are still active in the NFL.
(24:44):
But you see so many players out are Day two selections,
Day three selections that continue to have that longevity of
their career. So it doesn't mean and it's how a
lot of teams are built. It's where they're foundation. You're
able to find a star player in the first round,
but your core pieces are day two, Day three guys.
Hayden Connor gets the Joiner room with an undrafted Evan Brown,
(25:05):
a third round pick, and Isaiah Adams a compete for
a role, and also John Gaines who is a fifth
round pick if I'm not mistaken to twenty twenty three.
So that room itself has faced a lot of different
you know, it's been a revolving door at points with
different offensive linemen coming into the room. But Hayden Connor
comes in and he very well could compete for that role.
Speaker 1 (25:24):
Some love for the undrafted rookies who are going to
be in town. I mentioned offensive lineman sign one out
of Ohio State, Josh Fryer, who gets reconnected with his
position coach at Ohio States, and Justin Frye is now
position coach here with the Arizona Cardinals and someone who
did based off reporting, receive a significant signing bonus to
(25:46):
convince him to come to Arizona. Now, all of a sudden,
is he potentially a developmental guy because you're not going
to know what's going to happen at the tackle position,
right tackle after this upcoming season with Joona will Williams
and Kelvin Beacham on one year deals or with Williams
on the last year of a two year contract. So
(26:06):
Josh Bryer, I'm curious on what he might be able
to show, not just this weekend, but this entire offseason,
considering again the connection with his position coach, and then
the investment, the financial investment that was made in him the.
Speaker 3 (26:21):
Year prior to twenty to twenty four, and when they
put a significant investment, to use your word, into an
undrafted rookie, it was to Xavier Weaver, and in that
wide receiver room, Xavier Weaver was only active for a
handful of games, but you could tell that the Cardinals
have any vision for him that was beyond just this
year or just that twenty twenty four season. And I'm
very interested to see what that's going to be in
(26:42):
twenty twenty five with Zay Weaver. However, my point being,
when these players are available, you have to do whatever
you can and that vision. We talk about the role,
how the role on day one could be very different
than day fifteen th very different than Week seven and
even going into the next season, so they might see
something and Josh Friar and say, all right, we have
somebody here that could use a little bit of work.
(27:04):
We're gonna work with him, We're gonna develop him, and
down the line we'll see what he could be. It's
a worthy investment.
Speaker 1 (27:10):
Xavier Weaver made the team Starling Thomas a couple of
years back, uncle, or I should say, undrafted by the
Detroit Lions, but the Cardinals claimed him made the roster.
Amaro de Mercado better example as far as an undrafted
free agent of the Cardinals sign makes the team. In fact,
this little nugget for Mike cum and media relations. Ten
times in the past thirteen years at least one undrafted
(27:34):
free agent has made the Cardinals Week one roster. So
it is possible. Yes, it is a steep hill to climb,
but we've seen it. I just gave you three examples,
two specific Arizona Cardinals undrafted free agents, and you claimed
an undrafted one in Starling Thomas. But those are three names.
(27:54):
We haven't seen quite nearly as much from Xavier Weaver
except for late last season. But at least with Amari
and star. Those are key contributors on offense and defense
and also play some special teams. That's the other aspect
of these rookies that are coming in. How many of
them outside of Keaton Crawford actually have played significant special
(28:15):
teams during their college career.
Speaker 3 (28:16):
I'm not sure how long we've been going, but this
has been the longest we've been on a podcast together
and not mentioned Kean Crawford's name, So so shame on us.
Shame on now. I'm joking. Obviously, Bryson Green, another wide
receiver that the Cardinals have, is undrafted rookie free agent.
He's going to be coming in, and then that's what
it's going to come down to, is what can you
do with that special teams opportunity? That phase of the
(28:36):
game is so important to this staff. Jonathan Gannon always
talks about it, and it is a weekly press conferences.
I remember doing a story on Blake Gilkin and Max
Melton and a handful of the Cardinals defenders who start
and play significant snaps on their side of the ball,
but they also play a key role on special teams.
(28:56):
And I remember Max melon and Blake Gilkin both telling
me that every week they start off their team meeting
when they're going through the goals, their number one goal
is it's the razor goal is to be perfect on
special teams. You do that, everything else is going to
start to fall into place. With these undrafted guys, they
have to understand that when you're in college, you could
kind of graduate to the defensive side the ball or
(29:19):
the offensive side of the ball ball and forego your
opportunities as a special teamer.
Speaker 1 (29:24):
In the NFL. It's not always like that.
Speaker 3 (29:26):
Sometimes this is the only way you're going to be
able to make your money, get your bread. You think
about it with a keem Davis gaither with Michael Walker,
the Cardinals saw something through their special team's ability that
gave him the confidence to say, all right, well, we
want to also see what you could do on the
defensive side of the ball.
Speaker 1 (29:40):
We spent a lot of time in a couple of
different shows in the past. You can go to the
archives to check them out. But we went back and forth, Okay,
who do we expect on this draft class to be
a Day one starter? Well, how about we spin it
and say who's going to be the first rookie to
see the field? It very well could be Keaton Crawford
because the first unit we see on the field is kickoff,
(30:02):
whether that's kickoff or kickoff return, and over one thousand
special team snaps in his career, one thousand special team
snaps in college, and I'm guessing that's across the board.
Maybe not on field goal block, maybe as the outside guy,
but that's someone that if your special teams coordinator, Jeff Rodgers,
(30:22):
you're looking at tape and you're looking at those a
thousand snaps and going, Okay, well, there's a reason he
was on the field for so many of those. How
do we make it work here, whether that is on again,
kickoff punt, or even on field goal.
Speaker 3 (30:35):
One thousand and ten career special team snaps to be yes,
make sure we get not missaking. I'm pretty sure it's
one thy and ten. And it's not just special team
snaps from his time at Nevada. It's also special team
snaps from his time at Texas. He was at Texas
for a handful of years, those teammates with Hayden Conner
and now get and then transferred from Texas to Nevada
(30:58):
or Nevada, I'm gonna be rotating.
Speaker 1 (31:01):
It's Nevada, Nevada, Nevada. How do you say Oregon?
Speaker 3 (31:05):
Oregon?
Speaker 1 (31:06):
Okay, yeah, that one.
Speaker 3 (31:07):
I don't understand how people say orgon that.
Speaker 1 (31:09):
Well, we can talk about when you when you introduce yourself.
Jordan Burge ask him where he went to school, see
how he pronounced, just to see.
Speaker 3 (31:15):
Look during his time in Reno, Heat and Crawford, We're
going to go back to there. He transferred to Reno
because he wanted more opportunities as a secondary as a
safety defensive back and was able to show what he
was able to bring to the table because he was
in a loaded defensive back room. During his time at Texas,
he was mostly a special teams guy. He remained a
(31:36):
special teams guy in Nevada. I said it right there,
special teams guy in Nevada, and he also was able
to develop as a safety. And Mania Ospin for discussed
how they want to be able to see what he's
able to bring to the table. Put him in that
safety room. That's kind of where they hit vision envisioned
him mostly but knowing what he's able to bring as
a special teamer. I asked Mania Austin for how could
(31:59):
you tell when somebody genuinely loves that fastest the game
versus just trying to get in the field. He says,
it's very clear. You just watch him playing, you're able
to see how it's done. Keen Crawford's a guy that
loves that phase of that of the game.
Speaker 1 (32:10):
Keaton tested very well at the Scouting Combine a four
four to one forty among DB's, had the quickest twenty
yard shuttle, tied for the second highest vertical leap, third
fastest three cone. So he is very athletic. And we
mentioned again the special teams. One career blockfield goal, one
career block punt was an honorable mention All Big Twelve
(32:31):
selection in twenty twenty three because of his special teams play.
So if he can do that on this level, meaning
the NFL level, he could have a very successful career
as he waits for his time to play defense and
learn from a Buddha baker at Jalen Thompson in that room, right,
(32:55):
I'm going to have a uniform, and there are some
guys in my room who might not. But because I do, now,
all of a sudden, I'm a snapper two away from
playing defense.
Speaker 3 (33:04):
I'm keenan Crawford, I'm I'm eager to learn from Joey
Blunt as a special team's ace, like Joey Blunt is
as a gunner and through throughout his role, he's one
of the best special teams guys in the league, hands down,
just what he's ableed to how much he puts into
that phase of the game. Joey Blunt, that is now
he and he's also in that safety room. Joey Blunt
(33:25):
might not have had a lot of defensive snaps, although
he did have that interception in the game against Philadelphia
when they went when they went down to uh to
broad Street on New Year's Eve against the Eagles, and
he had that game stealing interception in the end zone.
Beyond that, Joey Blund doesn't have a lot of defensive
opportunities because you have a Jaylen Thompson, because you have
a Buddha Baker, because you have a Rabbit Tato Demerson
(33:47):
who's starting to earn his keeps and that and that
when the defensive back room. If I'm Keenan Crawford, I'm
I'm being a sponge to both Buddha Baker and the
defensive guys, but also to Joey Blunt in the special
team's room.
Speaker 1 (34:00):
It's gonna be a lot of fun to watch. And
then here whether that is from Jonathan Gannon position coaches, teammates,
how are these guys interacting with one another who might
be a little bit of ahead of their teammates even
though maybe they were a Day three pick as opposed
to a Day one pick. And again it's it's gonna
be fun. And speaking of fun, I know, uh, I know,
(34:22):
we're we're taking you away, Zach from a very important duty.
I don't know exactly what it is. I just know
that you are not dressed like we typically dress here
on Monday, three Thursday. Deal. Yeah, it's a it's a
little bit different kind of address. But apparently you're needed
elsewhere I might be.
Speaker 3 (34:40):
But this is fun to be. We have to chat
with the bird gang, talk the ball. This is this
is what it's all about. Everybody in the building would
rather probably have me here.
Speaker 1 (34:50):
Well, that could go could that could be construed in
one of two different ways, so either a negative or
a positive. I would hope it's a positive.
Speaker 3 (34:59):
Hopefully prove I had good information on Cardinals cover two. Uh,
but hey, I appreciate everybody listening regardless, just stay on
the lookout for the next you know, handful of days
and weeks and months and years, because we're gonna have
a lot of important stuff and I'm as broad as
I am for that exact reason. A lot of great
stuff is going to be hitting the Easy Cardinals airwaves
(35:22):
and social channels and the next little bit. So gotta
stay tuned.
Speaker 1 (35:25):
Some good, some fun content ahead and we will have
it for you on Easycardinals dot com. Plus we'll talk
about it here on Cardinals Cover two.
Speaker 3 (35:34):
When I come back, because this is my last Cardinals
Cover two for him for a few weeks.
Speaker 1 (35:38):
That's right. Enjoy your enjoy your outside work, your extra work,
and then the on assignment and there you go. And
we like that. We'd like that everyone likes that phrase.
What happen is always on assignment.
Speaker 3 (35:50):
I just might be in the Caribbean on this assignment.
Speaker 1 (35:52):
But okay, we shall see. You don't need to go
any further than that. All right, get back to work, Zach.
We'll do. On that note, we'll put a lid on
this edition of Cardinals Over two, presented by Hyundai, proud
partner of the Arizona Cardinals. As always, special thanks to
our executive producer Jim Mamahundra, our associate producer Cody Fincher.
For Zach Kershman, I'm Craig Rayolu. We'll talk to you
next time here on Cardinals Cover two.
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