May 5, 2025 • 46 mins
Ep. 880 - Six free agents. Six draft picks. In just two months, the Arizona Cardinals have added 12 new players to the defense. And now, it’s up to Nick Rallis to figure out how they all fit together. While he does that - and he’s got four months before the season starts - Craig Grialou and Paul Calvisi have a way-too-early conversation about the defense. What will it look like? Might there be a scheme change or adjustment based on the new personnel? How do draft picks Walter Nolen III, Will Johnson and Jordan Burch factor in? Also, can Ohio State teammates Cody Simon and Denzel Burke, a pair of Day 3 selections, make enough of an impression in the offseason to have a role, or maybe even start, in Week 1?
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:04):
We've got four months until the start of the season,
so of course we've got to ask what will the
defense look like? Welcome Bird Gang. On today's show, Paul
calvc joins me and joins me for a way too
early conversation about the defense. But that's what you talk
about in early May. It's Cardinals Cover two, episode eight eighty,
and it starts now.
Speaker 2 (00:26):
Welcome to Cardinals Cover two.
Speaker 3 (00:28):
Buda Baker, What Heart?
Speaker 1 (00:30):
What rent?
Speaker 4 (00:31):
This guy's unbelievable.
Speaker 2 (00:33):
Cardinals Cover two is presented by Hyundai, proud partner of
the Arizona Cardinals, and by Arizona Cardinals Podcast. Visit Azycardinals
dot Com slash podcast.
Speaker 3 (00:45):
He's at the ten half of five. He's it again
some more Hurry magic whow Here's Craigcriolo.
Speaker 1 (00:56):
I'm so glad we were able to pull Paul away
from his sink go to Mio celebrations because I believe
it's just one after another after another after another.
Speaker 3 (01:06):
Is that correct? Really? I need to check my schedule.
Maybe there were some late invitations that I missed. Not
really sure. I'm usually the last one to know anything
around here, so that would sort of make sense. Craig
knock it off. It does remind me of our analogy
before the draft. Craig, do you remember when we said
there are bartenders in the NFL and there are mixologists.
(01:28):
I'm talking about general managers. Look, anybody can go through
and they can make draft picks. Okay, I mean, I
don't want to diminish the skill set of a bartender.
But next level is a mixologist, someone who quote knows
this significance behind each ingredient in a drink and understands
the impact of each mixing technique. So if you're really
(01:51):
a master at your job as a general manager, you
are a mixologist. It's not just throwing draft picks at
a wall and seeing what sticks. No, it's having a plan,
drafting a position or a player for a particular reason,
a personality, and then bringing them together. A mixologist veterans,
rookies and everything in between.
Speaker 1 (02:10):
So where would you fall on that? Would you be
bartender or mixologists? Because I know exactly where I fall
I would be.
Speaker 3 (02:17):
One notch below all of the above. I would be
failed Fantasy football GM. That's what I would be, which
is the lowest of the lull.
Speaker 1 (02:23):
All right, can we take a guess then that Dave
Sears assistant general manager would fall under the category of mixologists.
He's gonna love this, by the way, But based off
what you explained as far as how you gather a
roster together, Dave Sears part of that front office just
below Monty Austin Ford on that pecking charts. My guess is,
(02:47):
at some time and then not two distant future, Dave
Sears is going to have the assistant removed and will
be general manager of a franchise in the National Football League.
Speaker 3 (02:59):
You know, I hadn't really thought that far ahead, but
you're absolutely right. If you in three drafts, if you
take the Arizona Cardinals from a four win team to
the playoffs in three drafts, if you go from roster,
let's face, it needed reconstruction, not just reload. You need
(03:19):
to reconstruct and reset from the ground up. How many
draft picks are left from the three from the four
draft class. I believe it's just three. It's three, right,
it's Kyler Murray, it's Zaven Collins, and it's Trey McBrien,
Trey McBride, thank you. So yeah, two first rounders and
a fairly high second rounder. So right there, Guess what
(03:43):
that'll garner a lot of attention, a lot of respect,
deservedly so around the rest of the league based on
what happens the end of this season. And I'm with you.
I'm with you teams that are looking for the next
decision maker, the next mixologist, if you will, on a
holiday by the way, where I think the Red is
buying both Dave Sears and Manios and for drinks at
the bar, they're drinking for free right now.
Speaker 1 (04:04):
Look, we would love to see it because that means,
to your point, Paul, the Cardinals are playing well. Another
franchise is look and not to pluck from that successful franchise.
We see it all the time. Now it would be
a tremendous loss because what would happen is we would
not get the annual tradition of Dave Sears here in
(04:24):
studio on the Big Red Rage, which you had a
chance to talk with him late last week. By the way,
highly recommend if you haven't already go to the podcast
archives download it. It's also available on the Arizona Cardinals
official YouTube page. But Dave Sears is knowledgeable about not
just the seven draft picks that the Cardinals made or
(04:47):
the ninety players currently on the roster, but detailed about
every single draft prospect. But there were a number of
points during that interview paul I wanted to discuss here
on Cardinals cover two presented by Day probably partner of
the Arizona Cardinals, and the time since the draft, as
more and more people are dissecting the draft classes around
(05:09):
the league and these individual players. The one narrative that
has come to mind with the Cardinals is the first
two picks Walter Nolan IID and Will Johnson boom or bust,
And that seems to be the consensus opinion amount around
most people locally nationally because of what was talked about
(05:31):
those players going into the draft.
Speaker 3 (05:33):
How true is it?
Speaker 1 (05:34):
Who knows character concerns, injury concerns, and all of a sudden,
those are two players.
Speaker 3 (05:39):
That the Cardinals have on their roster.
Speaker 4 (05:41):
But in your.
Speaker 1 (05:42):
Conversation didn't seem like either whether it was the character
issues perceived for Walter or the injury issues for Will Johnson,
neither really a concern for the Arizona Cardinals because if
they were, I can pretty much guarantee neither would be
on the right. Is certainly not with the first or
second round picks respectfully.
Speaker 3 (06:03):
Even to start this week, Craig, you pointed out the
NFL dot com story where they ranked everyone's draft class.
You know, one through thirty two, Cardinals were top ten.
They were ranked tenth. But in the summary the Cardinals
draft I'm quoting now NFL dot Com, Manni Ostenford took
big swings on pedigree talent early, then later in the
(06:24):
analysis Austin Ford swung from the heels on Thursday and
Friday night. That's not the way the Cardinals draft room
sees it. That's not the way MANI and JG and
Dave Sears see it. And that was essentially the genesis
of the question that I put to Dave Sears was,
you know, the national narrative is as I just quoted,
(06:44):
and his response was, well, a lot of disbelief. I think,
you know, a lot of confusion by the Cardinals draft
room what they call media misinformation. And so that's the
intriguing part about this. And when Manni and Dave Sears say, hey,
there are thirty two different boards, Hey, they're not kidding
b In this case, there really is a disparity. There
(07:06):
really is a disconnect between what a lot of other
teams and how they viewed and assessed a Walter Nolan
the third and a Will Johnson even draft Knight itself.
Ian Rappoport put out that a lot of NFL teams
see quote longevity issues end quote with the knee of
Will Johnson. Will Johnson scoffed when he met the media,
(07:28):
So that hasn't been an issue for nearly two years.
So who's right? How is this going to play out?
It's you know, it's it's why the draft is so
intriguing and why it's the original reality TV. Nobody really knows.
Everyone reads it differently. There are different medical evaluations, different
personality assessments on both players around the league. So hey,
(07:50):
if the Cardinals are accurate in their assessments, there's no
doubt they got a pair of guys who talent wise,
are both top fifteen.
Speaker 1 (07:57):
Everyone's got their own opinion, and opinions vary across the
league to the point where, Okay, one team sees Walter
Nolan as they can't miss. The other one says, you
know what, that's not a chance we're willing to take
same thing with a Will Johnson. So again, it falls
now on the players themselves to prove themselves right and
(08:19):
say no, those narratives that were attached to us don't belong.
And all it takes is one report or one talking
head to say something. But the difference is what we
see on film, but what player of what teams have
over others. During this pre draft process, Paul is getting
to talk to these individuals one on one, spend quality time,
(08:42):
not just a random interaction if you will, or a
five minute meeting, and then diving into the medicals where
everything gets scrutinized and you do deep in depth analysis
on not only the person, but certainly the body as
well as far as can you hang in the NFL?
And what does longevity mean? Is that a second contract?
(09:04):
Is that four years?
Speaker 3 (09:05):
Is that five years?
Speaker 1 (09:08):
The life of an NFL player is what just over
three years on average or not even three years? So
what does that mean? If the Cardinals can get seven
eight years out of Will Johnson, to me.
Speaker 3 (09:19):
That's success. Well, think about it. Their first three picks
were all elite coming out of high school elite. Walter
Nolan coming out was rated ahead of Travis Hunter as
ESPN's number one overall prospect in the twenty twenty two
recruiting class, Will Johnson was top twenty nationally. Jordan Birch,
(09:43):
I saw one ranking coming out, was the fourth rated
prospect overall in his recruiting class Georgia Alabama LSU. Everyone
wanted Jordan Birch. So if you assess that the person
is a quality person and someone at what's the first filter?
JG always uses, do we want this guy in our building?
(10:06):
So if you've decided yes, there's no disputing the talent.
Those top three guys they drafted have some freakish measurables.
They have some really good football difference maker, game changer
ability on film, proven over a even like Walter Nolan
and Drew stand made this point with us on the
(10:28):
Red Sea Report. Okay, it's great. You know, you got
a guy who's gonna get to the quarterback and all
that and a disruptive three technique, but it starts with
stopping the run. And if you look back at his
Pro Football Focus run stopper grade, it was number two
in the country at his position, behind only Mason Graham
who went top five.
Speaker 4 (10:47):
So there's a.
Speaker 3 (10:48):
Lot to like in every one of these guys. If
indeed you like the person and you like the Medical
and the Cardinals. There was a double thumbs up on
both on all those guys. So now let's roll and
see what you have.
Speaker 1 (10:58):
Pro Football Focus has Walter Nolan as their seventh ranked
prospects period, and that again goes to the talent all
of a sudden slipping to sixteen, and Will Johnson, the
talent certainly a top ten, top fifteen talent, sliding.
Speaker 3 (11:14):
To forty seven.
Speaker 1 (11:15):
So it goes back to, all right, who's right, who's wrong?
We will have it play out in front of us
each and every week once we get to September. But again,
on paper, you certainly like what the Cardinals did addressing
all three levels of their defense with each of their
first three draft picks.
Speaker 3 (11:32):
I mean, for example, look, I don't want to go
all hot take here and get over my skis with
expectations and how you see these guys impacting the Cardinals defense.
But if Walter Nolan played an inordan amount of snaps,
like he played almost the entire game for ole Miss,
and you come in and now he's gonna get thirty
to thirty five snaps, I mean, and he's able to
let it rip over those three dozen snaps, He's going
(11:56):
to get in a game that's gonna be something to
behold potentially. And then a Will Johnson if he had
come out a year earlier after he was the defensive
MVP of the National Title Game, where would he have
been drafted? So, if you're telling me Will Johnson is
going to come in from day one if he can
master the defense schematically and Nick Ross JG Can trust
(12:17):
him mentally, are you telling me he's not going to
make a run against Starling Thomas, against Sean Murphy Bunting.
I easily see him coming in and making a run
at a starting gig from day one. And as much
as this coaching staff loves to have these guys earn
it and I get it, there are certain talents who
have been starters ever since they were drafted, Paris Johnson
(12:39):
Junior for example. So I figure these guys to me
will be factors.
Speaker 1 (12:45):
Right away you mentioned schematically, and that's kind of where
I want to take this conversation now. Is what we
expect this defense to look like personnel wise?
Speaker 3 (12:55):
Paul?
Speaker 1 (12:55):
It is complete overhaul as far as the talent that
has been added to the defensive line, to the outside
linebacker room. And we know that the strength on paper,
at least last year was the secondary. But I'm of
the opinion that this defense is gonna look a lot different,
meaning how many defensive linemen are on the field. Is
(13:16):
it a four to three, which is what Jonathan Gannon
was quote unquote raised under. As far as his NFL background,
all the defensive coordinators, he learned from four to three.
It wasn't until he got to Philadelphia that he kind
of dabbled and learned more about the three to four.
He inherited a three to four here based off the
(13:37):
roster with the Arizona Cardinals. But you add depth to
the defensive line. You've drafted two defensive linemen in each
of the past two first rounds and Darius Robinson and
Walter Nolan. You resign LJ. Collier, you bring in Dalvin Tomlinson,
you bring in Kaleis Campbell, not to mention quote unquote
hopefully a healthy Justin Jones and Balaon Nichols. That's a
(14:00):
loaded room where if you're gonna play a three four
and keep six, you're gonna keep someone out of that
room to where I think you're gonna have more of
a rotation. That's why I kind of see more of
a seven or eight man defensive line room, which would
mean more d lineman on game day, every single snap.
Speaker 3 (14:21):
It's a valid observation, there's no doubt. I mean, I
think you're astute to look at it that way. It's
one of the reasons I asked Dave Sears. Now, wait
a minute, refresh our memory. How many defensive linemen did
the Cardinals come out of camp with the last two years.
The answer was six. But you tell me who's going
when you have eight legit defensive linemen. Darius Robinson, Walter Nolan,
(14:42):
Dallan Thompson, Tomlinson, Kalais Campbell, Justin Jones, Ball Nichols both
back from injury, Dante Still's LJ.
Speaker 4 (14:48):
Collier.
Speaker 3 (14:49):
That's eight, and then Ben Stilly, who got some reps.
But no longer are these the days, with all due respect,
that you have to go back on into the stream,
bring back guys that you cut guys off the practice squad.
There's no more walking down on the Sideline'm like, wait
a minute, Hoskins, who's Phil Hoskins. Wait, he's in uniform
this week? You know, a Nakwon Jones, a Kyrie's Tonga
(15:09):
I mean, you have some really proven, talented, highly thought
of defensive linemen right now. So what does that mean?
I tell you this much. I mean it's going to
be a totally different training camp. I think the vibe,
just the intensity, the urgency, the compete level at camp
this year. I mean, let's be honest, last few years,
how many spots really up for grabs? Two or three?
(15:33):
I mean legit. Now, look you've got a dozen corners
on this roster, and then look at the outside linebacker,
the edge room, and so it's really intriguing. And if
you want to get the best out of your roster,
raise the compete level because that's the one way to
motivate in the NFL and Professional Sports Job Security Week eighteen.
Speaker 1 (15:54):
The two deep defensive line Dante Stills, Roy Lopez, LJ Collier,
the backups nay Kwon Jones, Kyrie's Tonga, Darius Robinson.
Speaker 4 (16:05):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (16:05):
So, and look, it was, you know it was sometimes
it was going with four and five defensive linemen at
times just had a necessity to stop the run. You
had to throw bodies in there, a body in every gap.
But now, if you have the ability in terms of
the talent level with these defensive linemen at Dalvin Thomlinson
(16:26):
talking about a proven run stuffer. You know Kalaiis Campbell's
ability to do that. Justin Jones Ball Nichols when they
were signed a year ago, that was their mantra was
stopping the run because the Cardinals had had such issues
in twenty twenty three. So to me in a division
where the Seahawks want to run the ball, and we
know Christian McCaffrey's going to be back, we know what
Kien Williams has done, and the Cardinals did a much
(16:47):
better job last year than they did the year previous
Kien Williams in that Rams run game. But you know,
Sean McVay still wants his stuff in between the tackles
as much you know, publicity as he gets for throwing
the ball down the field. So that is a mustiness
of Cardinals are much more equipped to stop the run
right now. And then with some you know Darius Robinson
or Walter Nolan, these kind of guys you know, being
(17:09):
really disruptive from the inside out, it's going to be intriguing.
Speaker 1 (17:13):
You play these division opponents twice. So how much of
what we're seeing relies or looks at Okay, what do
we need to do talking about the Arizona Cardinals to
make the playoffs, Well, the easiest path is to win
your division. How do we win the division? To your point, Paul,
every defensive coordinator says it starts with stopping the run.
But with the Cardinals equipped to stop the run in
(17:36):
year one, got a little bit better in year two,
but now year three, the emphasis on that front seven
to stop each and every opponent within the NFC West,
And I think that's where this is going to. Where
you're going to see four defensive linemen, maybe three, but
more guys up to the line of scrimmage and give
(17:58):
the back end a little bit more help, meaning the
quarterback's not gonna have as much time to throw the football.
Speaker 3 (18:04):
What did we learn from Drew stan last month? The
term Santa claus that's what quarterbacks call it when an
interior defensive lineman ends up in your lap.
Speaker 4 (18:13):
So what's the best.
Speaker 3 (18:14):
Way to really go against Matthew Stafford? Mister, I get
rid of the ball in one point seven seconds, right,
It's to be really disruptive in the interior of the
offensive line, sort of like what the Eagles did to
him in the playoff game, even though they still kept
that a one score game all the way to the
very end in the snow. But that's I mean, that's
really the only way you get to Matthew Stafford. Are
(18:35):
you coming off the edge and getting to Matthew Stafford?
Not too often, just because he gets rid of the
ball so quickly. He's such a really good decision maker
at age thirty seven. Okay, now let's look at Sam Donald.
Where did Sam Donald struggle big time last year and
those last two games Detroit? And then what did the
Rams do in that that playoff game? They got to him,
and they got to him quick, and he was deer
(18:58):
in the headlights and he got sacked what seven one
game and nine in the other Sam Darnold, So if
he's going to be the Seahawks starting quarterback, that's the
best way to go against that. And then brock Purty.
We've seen brock purty sneaky athleticism when you're able to
crash from the edges and he's able to extend a
play and get rid of the ball. But once again,
brock Purty, you get that penetration up the middle. So
(19:18):
again you're building from the inside out. I think you're
going to be playing defense from the inside out. It's
the reason why the Cardinals spend number sixteen on an
interior defensive line in that disruptive presence. And if you
want to go back to JG with the Eagles, what
did he have Fletcher Cox? And what did Adrian Wilson
tell us? He really Walter Nolan reminds him in a
big way of a Fletcher Cox in terms of what
(19:40):
he'll do for the scheme overall. And that's perhaps what
Jonathan again and Nick Rolis were thinking. Let's go back
to the Philadelphia days. And oh, by the way, that
Eagles defense just hoisted a Lombardi Trophy as well.
Speaker 1 (19:51):
I just went back and looked it up. The Cardinals
in year one against the run defensively dead. Last last
year they ranked twenty against the run. So, again, what
is this team doing in the offseason to get better?
It begins defensively, because we keep talking about and we're
gonna talk about it a lot. They're running it back offensively.
(20:15):
There is not gonna be anything that we see that
is any different. There might be a couple of wrinkles,
but as far as personnel wise, outside of right guard,
everyone is back. It's defensively that has done as you
like to say, the Home Improvement or Home Makeover.
Speaker 3 (20:30):
Edition Stream Makeover Craig HGTV.
Speaker 1 (20:33):
I mean you watch, I don't as far as what
this defense is going to look like. And another conversation
that you had with Dave Sears a comment about because
he was the one that mentioned when you were talking
about Jordan Birch, she said any three to four defense
and I heard that and is like, Okay, maybe I'm
completely off base when I think maybe it's going to
be a four to three, but he mentioned he sorry, Craig,
(20:54):
any three for Hey, I'm gonna believe it until I
see differently, it's right, any three to four defense. The
outside linebacker is position is basically the engine that runs
the thing. And again, what did we see Josh wet
Big Free Agent edition home run out of the gate
and then Jordan Birch on day two added to a
(21:14):
room that a year ago at this time, Paul, the
only addition was Xavier Thomas. And you look at who's
in that room now, and Xavier might have a hard
time making this roster. Not to say that it won't
be on the team. But as far as if you're
looking to project who you're keeping four or five, there
are going to be a numbers crunch along that front seven.
Speaker 3 (21:35):
And don't forget how effective mac Wilson Senior was in
some of those packages last year and actually second half
of the year. Really he was more of an outside
linebacker for the most part than an inside linebacker. Just
got a necessity, So you're right, Josh Sweat, Okay Zavi
and Collins who was used in so many different ways,
the baron a pass rush, Baron Browning who was never
(21:57):
quite totally healthy a year ago, and then he was
re signed a former third round pick himself, bg O
Jelari complete sleeper at this point, I include myself. I
keep forgetting b Joe Jelari and as good as he
looked before he went down with a knee injury, you
have no idea how last year would have played out
in his second year in the league. What is in
(22:20):
store there? We don't know. We know Jordan Birch has
ridiculous measurables and talent and a lot of even though
we had a lot of production last year at Oregon.
For everything that he is athletically and his measurables. He
did have quite a bit of good production last year
for Oregon, so that is very intriguing. And then Mac
Wilson Sr. And then from what I've been hearing about
Xavier Thomas, he's been winning the off season. He's definitely
(22:42):
put on some muscle mass Xavier Thomas. So, Okay, to
your point, it's a much more competitive outside linebacker edge room.
I mean, the compete level there is huge. And once again,
just like the D line room, is there a room
for every name we just listed? And if there isn't,
there's gonna be a guy cut who's gonna be snapped
(23:02):
up by another team. And you do not see that
the first two years.
Speaker 1 (23:05):
And that's that's what you want to see happen because
it's a signal that the front office their decisions on
who they're bringing in, they're bringing in quality players to
ramp up the competition. Because to your point, if you're cutting,
however many players and none of those are landing anywhere
else or getting claimed on those final cuts, then do
(23:28):
you question why you brought them in? And to begin with,
I mean, yeah, there are scheme fits and stuff like that.
What you want to do offense and defense. But if
you're Manty Austin Ford, it's going to be you're gonna
have a lot of sleepless nights. As far as all right,
and again, I realize we're talking here first week in May.
You don't have those conversations if you're the front office
(23:48):
until late August. But it's what we talk about now
because it's what we have to talk about.
Speaker 3 (23:53):
As far as all.
Speaker 1 (23:54):
Right, we release this player, we're not gonna see them,
We're not gonna be able to bring them back because
they've played so well, or it's another team is going
to snatch them up because we have a hole now
because you guys took all the available talent.
Speaker 3 (24:11):
It's always interesting Labor Day weekend, right, Nobody does this,
including myself because you know we're enjoying Labor Day weekend.
But if you really want to get an assessment of
how talented your NFL team's roster really is, take a
look at their cuts and whether anybody else pursues the
guys that hit the street. And if one team all
of a sudden has a number of players who are
(24:31):
snapped up immediately by other teams, it's a tell. It
is a tell. Like, Wow, Okay, that team is talented
and that roster is deeper than maybe because there's very
little that gets past NFL evaluators. I mean, if somebody
hits the street and they can play, they will play
for someone. And that's not even including whether Maria Support
(24:53):
makes another signing a free agent who's still out there.
I mean, I'll just throw out names and it's nothing.
It's not newsworthy. I'm not reporting anything. But if you're
going for a veteran receiver and Amari Cooper's still out there,
if you're going for another veteran guard to bring in,
there's a couple of guys still out there, what exactly
you know, maybe maybe at another safety or inside linebacker,
(25:15):
if there's a veteran out there and approve it deal.
Who knows. But once again, as currently constructed, I would
not be shocked if there's one, two or three more
free agents, veteran guys who are brought in between now
and the starter camp. Then might even bolster at the
compete level. Defensively, though you think I'm probably not in
(25:35):
the front seven, maybe maybe a veteran Mike linebacker might
still be out there, and I might be just completely
you know, blowing smoke right here, because I haven't looked
at who's still available. But I think it is a
legitimate question who's still out there at inside linebacker. And
the only reason I say that is I fully expect
the Cardinals to go into rookie Minuti camp and they'll
(25:57):
get their first assessment on Cody Simon. Is he swimming?
Is he handling this playbook? How does he look out there?
Can he command a defense? Can he truly do it?
I asked Dave sears Hey, how big a jump do
you consider green Dot in college, especially at a high
level at Ohio State, all the way through the national
title game where he's the defense of MVP to the
(26:20):
NFL and now all of a sudden, you're calling a defense,
but the guy calling the players on the other side
is Sean McVay Kyle shanahan. Right from the outside looking in,
that seems like a huge leap. But to Drew Stand's point,
if you're playing a more simple defense because you can
keep it a little more simple because you have dudes
now like you didn't have two years ago, and it's
(26:40):
not all exotic you have to scheme everything up. Okay,
maybe it is easier as a rookie to call that defense.
Maybe Buddha Baker steps in helps out a little bit
in a mac Wilson senior who knows with some of
the adjustments in the audibles and reacting to when a
defense starts doing something crazy when they break the huddle.
But to me once again, like let's just say Cody
Simon is swimming as a rookie, and now you might
(27:03):
be more app did the free agent market. Maybe you
are in the market for more veteran inside linebacker you
feel more comfortable with initially, and you give Cody Simon
as a rookie a bit more of a learning curve
going forward.
Speaker 1 (27:16):
The conversation that you had with Dave Sears as far
as what he mentioned about Cody Simon, and sometimes you know,
you listen to it or you watch it and something
slips through the cracks and you have to listen to
it again. And I listened to it again over the weekend,
and your conversation about Cody Simon. Dave Sears did mention
that they have a quote path for him to make
(27:36):
the team. Now he's going to make the team. But
I read that or I listened to that, and I'm like, okay,
there's a path, all right. Can he be a Day
one starter? Can you have a Day three pick be
a Day one starter at a position that a couple
of years back they wanted to do it with Zavon
Collins not quite ready now. Quality of competition that Zave
(27:59):
and Fai versus Cody at Ohio State. And I mentioned
this late last week was Zach Kerspin when he would
join me here on Cardinals cover two, because I remember
the conversation about zab and Collins. We had Lorenzo Alexander
and he brought up the name Tremaine Edwins Edmunds, who
was a first round pick, Day one starter with that
(28:22):
green dot in twenty eighteen with the Buffalo Bills. So
it can be done. But to your point, Paul, it
is a giant leap from college, regardless if you're a
Power five or a Power four these days. It is
something that I think the Cardinals see. But is it
right out of the gate in September or is it
going to take a little time to where Okay, maybe
(28:44):
it's Mac doing most of that and Cody they can
kind of bring along slowly. But just listening to the
conversation what Dave was saying about Cody Simon. It doesn't
sound like they project him to be someone that's going
to take a little time to get to where that
green dot becomes comfortable and he can command the ten
of the guys on the field.
Speaker 3 (29:05):
I mean, he played in fifty eight games at Ohio State,
thirty starts, four time academic All Big Ten. So he
has a mental acuity and capacity to handle it. It's
just the learning curve how much how soon can he
command it? And actually, you know, the key is during
the trust, not only the trust of the coaches, but
the trust of the other ten guys out there that
(29:26):
you can handle it. I remember when Kaizer White came in,
and it was a big transition. The year prior, Zavin
Collins as a rookie had done a lot of that,
and guys raved Kaizer White came in and he had
four or five years in the league. He'd been a
middle linebacker where the charges earlier before the Eagles and
guys like oh Man, he's spinning out the calls immediately,
he's making the checks immediately. That helps that extra split
(29:47):
second that you have to actually know what's coming and
to get in position can be huge. It can be huge,
especially when teams are breaking the huddle, getting up with
the ball trying to snap it. They'll do different things
to mess with your timing and your ability to call
a D fence and adjust. So a Cody Simon, if
if he's able to be that guy, and I'm guessing
because he had multiple meetings with Jonathan Gannon and Manti
(30:10):
acid Ford that they probably peppered him. They probably got to,
you know, okay, how much can this guy handle? How
soon we like it? The football IQ is there, and
then all the other leadership aspects of being a team
captain and the block o jersey and everything else, and
you know, and then here's the last thing on inside linebacker,
and I firmly believe this, and that is John Campbell
(30:32):
ran a four to five to one. Cody sam Simon
ran a four point six flat. Is there a significant
difference there? Yes, that can be sideline to sideline, But
you know what, you know what can make up for
that difference instincts is an inside linebacker. You can bring
a guy in there who runs the four to four,
but if he's a little hesitant or he's a little
step slow and read and react. He's not playing like
(30:54):
he runs a four to four as opposed to a
guy as really excellent and superior instincts and can read
and react and seek and destroy immediately. Now it looks
like he's a four point six guy like Cody Simon
could appear to be playing at like a four point
four speed. And that was always Tyron Matthew ran the
four to five, had the character concerns fell to the
(31:14):
third round. As soon as you got him out on
the field, You're like, oh man, this dude is so instinctive.
He plays like he runs a four to three. If
that could be Cody Simon just based on his his
superior experience at Ohio State, then yeah, if he can
master it and he can spit it out, he can
lead a defense. There's no doubt in my mind he
could be a Day one starter a four to five.
Speaker 1 (31:35):
But your instincts, you're already a step ahead because you're
you're anticipating what you know is going to happen. And
speaking of speed, the last player that I want to
bring up here, based off your conversation on The Big
Red Rage with Dave Sears as Denzel Burke, who ran
a four, four eight forty, So he's got the speed,
but it's the quality of competition. Again, this is a
(31:56):
Day three selection, but you referenced that article on NFL
as far as the Cardinals' draft grade and how they
ranked among the other thirty two teams. On this article,
they listed Denzel Burke as a sleeper pick based off
his fifty one career starts and his level of experience
against quality competition, not so much on game day. But
(32:18):
it's what Sears said during practice. Denzel Burke practiced against
five first round wide receivers the last couple of years
Monday through Friday, to where Saturday became quote unquote easy
or easier because he wasn't facing a first round draft
(32:39):
pick across from him on game day, but during the
week he got it every single day, every single rep.
Speaker 3 (32:47):
You know what's amazing. There was a stat about him.
He's the first true freshman Buckeye to start a season
opener on defense since Andy Katzenmoyer in nineteen ninety six.
We're old enough to remember that name, and you know
what I mean, think about I can't wait to get
him in here and actually talk to him, and I'm
going to go Allen Iverson. I'm gonna talk to him
about practice, man, and I'm gonna ask him. I think
(33:09):
the number is six. Chris Olave, Garrett Wilson, Marvin Arson Junior,
Jackson Smith, and Jigba a mecho Abuca. That's five. The
question is did he go against Jamison Williams who is
at Ohio State and then transfer to Alabama and was
a first round pick? And I think he did so.
I think it's a half dozen different first round receivers
that he won against. So are you telling me he's
(33:32):
gonna if let's say he makes a run in a
starting spot. Let's just say because he started fifty one
games at Ohio State, he comes in, you think he's
gonna be wide eyed going against an NFL receiver. No,
all he has to do is is flashback in his
own mind going against first rounders all four years of
(33:52):
his college career at Ohio State. So I'm really curious
to see as a fifth rounder what he he looks like.
You know how works creg at Cardinals camp. The SEC
guys always look a little different, right, They just they're
not wide eyed. And then someone like Denzel Burke with
all that experience going all the way through national title
games and everything he had to deal with, and he
(34:15):
had a roller coaster ride at Ohio State. You go
through his career, Buckeye fans will tell you there were
times where he was persona on grado with a fan
base like he had some tough games. He had a
tough game against Oregon that was out there for everyone
to see. But he's a fighter and he's a baller
and he has a lot of those intangibles that you
look for.
Speaker 1 (34:34):
Had a very good college playoff as far as his
coverage ability, and Pro Football Focus had Burke as one
of the best zone coverage cornerbacks in the draft class,
and we know that is kind of what defensively we
see a lot is zone scheme in that secondary. So
could you have someone who is a fifth round pick
(34:54):
come in and competes in what is a loaded cornerback
room and make a push, Again, going back to our
initial conversation, it's something to discuss here in May. We
won't know until we get to training camp to really
know who's out there and not swimming. As far as
you know, you can kind of look in their face
and they're thinking a little.
Speaker 3 (35:14):
Bit too much out there.
Speaker 1 (35:16):
But the fact that you've got Ohio State guys, the
fact that you've got Texas guys, Michigan guys, SEC guys.
How much better are they going to be as far
as the quality of competition to where those first one
on one matchups at State Farm Stadium and training camp,
they're not wide eyed. It's okay. I can harken back
(35:37):
to my days on a Wednesday afternoon in Anna Arbor.
Speaker 3 (35:41):
All right, let's go.
Speaker 1 (35:42):
I'm ready.
Speaker 3 (35:43):
And here's the other thing that jumps out from his
scounter report. He's fierce and run support and tackles with
good technique and does not shy away from ball carriers.
That's a must with Jonathan Gennit, it's an absolute must.
You better defend the run if you're a corner. And
then when he was meeting the media, Denzel Burke also
mentioned and I have the loose quote here. He said,
(36:04):
you know what I'm all about proving everyone wrong who
didn't take a chance on me? What did Will Johnson say?
Speaker 4 (36:11):
Oh?
Speaker 3 (36:11):
Will Johnson was triggered, he was hot, he was not
happy that he felt around too. If you're looking for
two rookies to come into camp with the old chip
on the shoulder pad, if you will, you're looking at
those two corners, and then you're looking at Max Melton,
high second round pick a year ago, Sean Murphy Bunting,
highly paid free agent Starling Thomas, who has started most
(36:36):
of his first two years in the league, has over
twenty starts in two years as an undrafted rookie free agent.
He is no foreigner to fighting and competing. I mean,
it's like so on in that cornerback room. And then
Garrett Williams, who's already a made man after two years.
I mean he's in. Garrett Williams is in now the
other two and I'm going with three corners, and I'm
(36:57):
listening garat Williams' starter and Nick.
Speaker 1 (36:59):
He almost doesn't count because you can count him and
look at everyone else.
Speaker 3 (37:03):
Yeah, Buddha and Garrett Williams. Okay, Jalen Thompson. We presume
although Rabbit is a sleeper, I think in this training
camp there's no doubt about that now that he's mastered
the defense. And it was a process, very radically different
scheme than he played at Texas Tech. But you saw
him in December and January, and every time he's on.
Speaker 4 (37:20):
The field man. You know he's on the field rabbit,
but those that cornerback spot, both spots, you could argue
that could be the most competitive position battle on this team.
Speaker 1 (37:31):
Elijah Jones is another name to watch because you invested
a third round pick in him a year ago. He
didn't see the field, hartly saw any practice. Now all
of a sudden, I mean, if you're him, is it
You're just like one of those unfortunate situations to where
it's gonna be hard to stand out among the rest.
Speaker 3 (37:53):
Here's what I would say on Elijah Jones. He's still
like the football character, great dude, highly competitive. If he's
six two, I mean he is long. He has some
really good measurables, but he's behind the learning curve because
he did not get out on the field as a rookie.
So you know that hole making the jump from year
one to year two, Well, he hasn't even had year
(38:15):
one to make that jump to year two because he
really has no foundation from year one because he was
just riddled with injuries and he just even on the
practice field, he wasn't able to be like a scout
team corner a lot of last season and compete against
the Cardinals ones his starters. So what does that mean. Now,
we got a lot of experience in Boston College and
(38:35):
he's an older guy. Can he make up for that
with some of that maturity That remains to be seen.
Speaker 1 (38:40):
By the way, the rookies will be in later this week.
Rookie Miniicamp is this weekend. But as we speak here
on this Monday, there is action and activity on the
football fields behind us here in studio. Phase two of
offseason workouts has begun. Now there's not much of a
difference between Phase one and Phase two. The biggest changes
(39:02):
coaches can now be on the field. Now you're still
in T shirts and shorts, no helmets, but you add
the element of okay, we've worked in the classroom. Now
let's go out on the football field and you're not
going full speed, but now you have the coaches that
can guide or hey. In terms of the offense, we're
hitting the ground running because there's not a ton of difference,
(39:24):
barely any difference between last year's offense and this year's offense.
As far as again the personnel and the players that
are out on that football field.
Speaker 3 (39:32):
And you know what, we haven't had a chance to
watch it, but coaches watch everything and they are allowed
out there now right two And are you gonna win
a job? No, No, you're not winning a job in May.
But you can tell if a guy is behind. You
can tell if a guy is getting absolutely roasted or
(39:53):
not up to snuff with the other guys out on
the field. We've seen that at rookie mini camps over
the years. Guys have come in and I know, okay,
a nice show, and that's great, but you gotta wait
for the veterans. But if you're lagging behind the rest
of the rookies, that's usually a bad sign. So it's
the first indicator as to who needs to pick it
up and or you know, who might have been overdrafted,
(40:15):
and or who doesn't even belong on the field. In
terms of some of the undrafted rookies, you can usually
tell right away, right the guys who are brought out,
And so it is telling. It is every single session
is a competition.
Speaker 1 (40:30):
Who is taking off season work seriously and who isn't.
Everyone goes back to, all right, can you win a job?
Speaker 3 (40:37):
No?
Speaker 1 (40:37):
But can you really stand out? And the one that
comes to mind this is a while back, but Steve
Preston used off season workouts to become the third wide
receiver and have a thousand receiving yards on that Cardinals team.
So yeah, you can make a jump even though you're practicing.
As BA would always say, T shirts and shorts, you're
(40:58):
playing soccer out there.
Speaker 3 (40:59):
But guys that take it seriously get rewarded. So if
you go to Asycardinals dot com and you go through
some of the photos of the off season, you can
see Marvin Arrison Junior, right, I mean he's he's definitely
yoked up a little bit. Looks like you, Paul Xavier Thomas.
I gotta hit the gym, I really do. And then
you know the one I want to see though, Does
anybody have any intel on Isaiah Adams? Has he been
(41:21):
winning the off season? What does Isaiah Adams look like?
That's the sleeper to me, the third round pick out Illinois.
He had some really good skills, you had some really
good technique. Need to get a little stronger, put on
some good weight. Is he crushing the off season like
Zach Allen did years ago from year one to year two?
And if so, if so, that might explain why they
(41:46):
haven't invested more into offensive line a veteran guard and
free agency for example, dot dot dot. I don't know,
but I am intrigued to see what does Isaiah Adams
look like and is it noticeable kinning for those of
us who haven't seen him in mon do you walk?
Speaker 2 (42:00):
We go?
Speaker 3 (42:01):
Oh? Okay, Hello, Yeah, you've been living in the gym.
So that's the visual.
Speaker 1 (42:06):
I want to see that jump from year one to
year two where you have a full off season to
dedicate yourself and you're not preparing for the combine or
going on the banquet circuit because you can actually focus
on your job. So yeah, some things to look forward
to in the days and weeks to come. Now as
we bring it full circle here on Cardinals cover too,
I mentioned Sinco to mile. Yeah, Paul's got plans. But today,
(42:30):
on this Monday, is also James Connor's birthday. Oh he
is thirty years young. And I stress young, okay, because
I know that's a magic number thirty when it hits
the running backs, especially with the running backs. But James
Connor has shown no signs of slowing down. Have not
seen him this offseason, but that's one player I have
(42:53):
zero concerns about being ready or taking care of his body.
Speaker 3 (42:57):
What was the Jacoby Brussett comment when he was meeting
the media for the first time and New England came
to town week fifteen, and he's like, James Connor, dude looks
like he's aging backwards. That was one of the great
quotes of the off season. But you're right, Craig, I'm
not going to be the one who's gonna ask James
Connor about his thirtieth birthday. Okay, don't ask women the
rage and don't ask thirty old running backs their age.
(43:18):
So there's two things you just don't do as a
matter of decorum.
Speaker 1 (43:21):
Just celebrate the fact that the Cardinals have James Connor
on their roster.
Speaker 3 (43:26):
Yes, And you know what, Trey Benson. I saw him
out at the draft party. He was out there with
Paris Johnson Junior. That you know, there were different tandems
signing autographs and so I saw those two guys together
and Trey Benson looks great. And let's not forget Trey
Benson started to look like James Connor for about a
(43:46):
three game stretch before he dealt with some injuries over
the final month month and a half of the season.
But if you're looking for a guy to take that
year one to year two leap. I know we're talking
to about Marvin Erson Junior, you know, a Max Melton,
But don't forget about Trey Benson, the one of the
other Round three picks who started to adopt that James
Connor mentality and with his size and then his breakaway speed.
(44:12):
What do you ran? He was he was triggered this
time a year ago when he came in. That was
still one of the great quotes. What did he run?
And what did he say he should have ran? Because
he was not happy with his forty time a year.
Speaker 1 (44:22):
Remember what Let's see he ran at the scouting combine.
Speaker 3 (44:26):
I look at it.
Speaker 1 (44:27):
He ran a four to three nine, third fastest among
running backs. But when we had him in here in studio,
he's like, oh, could have been faster? Yeah, I was
like nine, He ran a sub four four, could have
been faster, should have been faster.
Speaker 3 (44:39):
He wanted low four threes. So I mean and once again,
and and and Jonathan again it said this a couple
of times on his TV show last year. You're waiting
for Trey Benson to get to the second level, get
to the third level, and then here gone, because as
soon as he gets that lane, there aren't many guys
who are gonna be able to catch Benson. And it's
(45:01):
gonna happen this year. I think he's going to house
one from forty or fifty yards out. Once you know,
they spring him free and he finds that lane, you're
gonna have to get a really good angle on Trey
Benson or else he's taken at the distance.
Speaker 1 (45:14):
Can't wait to see that. Paul can't wait for the
Sinko to Miyo celebrations. So well, here's the beverage cart
coming by anytime soon. All tender mixologists, where are we right?
Where is the mixologist?
Speaker 3 (45:25):
Well, if you're a mixologist, we got to go to
the mixologist. They don't come to you. That's the way
that works their status, rightfully. So we go to the mixologists.
So if anybody's around over here, please, yes, we get
some you know, table service. I'm not quite at Craigs
level for table service, but I could use a use
someone over here to bring us a beverage. At this
(45:45):
point with lunch, it's Sinko to my own.
Speaker 1 (45:47):
As they say, it's five o'clock somewhere, so enjoy it.
On that note, we'll put a lit on this edition
of Cardinals Cover two presented by Hyundai, proud partner of
the Arizona Cardinals. As always, special thanks to our executive
producer Jim I'm on hunder our associate producer Coddie Fincher.
For Paul Calvic, I'm praig Reylu. We'll talk to you
next time here on Cardinals Cover two
We've got four months until the start of the season,
so of course we've got to ask what will the
defense look like? Welcome Bird Gang. On today's show, Paul
calvc joins me and joins me for a way too
early conversation about the defense. But that's what you talk
about in early May. It's Cardinals Cover two, episode eight eighty,
and it starts now.
Speaker 2 (00:26):
Welcome to Cardinals Cover two.
Speaker 3 (00:28):
Buda Baker, What Heart?
Speaker 1 (00:30):
What rent?
Speaker 4 (00:31):
This guy's unbelievable.
Speaker 2 (00:33):
Cardinals Cover two is presented by Hyundai, proud partner of
the Arizona Cardinals, and by Arizona Cardinals Podcast. Visit Azycardinals
dot Com slash podcast.
Speaker 3 (00:45):
He's at the ten half of five. He's it again
some more Hurry magic whow Here's Craigcriolo.
Speaker 1 (00:56):
I'm so glad we were able to pull Paul away
from his sink go to Mio celebrations because I believe
it's just one after another after another after another.
Speaker 3 (01:06):
Is that correct? Really? I need to check my schedule.
Maybe there were some late invitations that I missed. Not
really sure. I'm usually the last one to know anything
around here, so that would sort of make sense. Craig
knock it off. It does remind me of our analogy
before the draft. Craig, do you remember when we said
there are bartenders in the NFL and there are mixologists.
(01:28):
I'm talking about general managers. Look, anybody can go through
and they can make draft picks. Okay, I mean, I
don't want to diminish the skill set of a bartender.
But next level is a mixologist, someone who quote knows
this significance behind each ingredient in a drink and understands
the impact of each mixing technique. So if you're really
(01:51):
a master at your job as a general manager, you
are a mixologist. It's not just throwing draft picks at
a wall and seeing what sticks. No, it's having a plan,
drafting a position or a player for a particular reason,
a personality, and then bringing them together. A mixologist veterans,
rookies and everything in between.
Speaker 1 (02:10):
So where would you fall on that? Would you be
bartender or mixologists? Because I know exactly where I fall
I would be.
Speaker 3 (02:17):
One notch below all of the above. I would be
failed Fantasy football GM. That's what I would be, which
is the lowest of the lull.
Speaker 1 (02:23):
All right, can we take a guess then that Dave
Sears assistant general manager would fall under the category of mixologists.
He's gonna love this, by the way, But based off
what you explained as far as how you gather a
roster together, Dave Sears part of that front office just
below Monty Austin Ford on that pecking charts. My guess is,
(02:47):
at some time and then not two distant future, Dave
Sears is going to have the assistant removed and will
be general manager of a franchise in the National Football League.
Speaker 3 (02:59):
You know, I hadn't really thought that far ahead, but
you're absolutely right. If you in three drafts, if you
take the Arizona Cardinals from a four win team to
the playoffs in three drafts, if you go from roster,
let's face, it needed reconstruction, not just reload. You need
(03:19):
to reconstruct and reset from the ground up. How many
draft picks are left from the three from the four
draft class. I believe it's just three. It's three, right,
it's Kyler Murray, it's Zaven Collins, and it's Trey McBrien,
Trey McBride, thank you. So yeah, two first rounders and
a fairly high second rounder. So right there, Guess what
(03:43):
that'll garner a lot of attention, a lot of respect,
deservedly so around the rest of the league based on
what happens the end of this season. And I'm with you.
I'm with you teams that are looking for the next
decision maker, the next mixologist, if you will, on a
holiday by the way, where I think the Red is
buying both Dave Sears and Manios and for drinks at
the bar, they're drinking for free right now.
Speaker 1 (04:04):
Look, we would love to see it because that means,
to your point, Paul, the Cardinals are playing well. Another
franchise is look and not to pluck from that successful franchise.
We see it all the time. Now it would be
a tremendous loss because what would happen is we would
not get the annual tradition of Dave Sears here in
(04:24):
studio on the Big Red Rage, which you had a
chance to talk with him late last week. By the way,
highly recommend if you haven't already go to the podcast
archives download it. It's also available on the Arizona Cardinals
official YouTube page. But Dave Sears is knowledgeable about not
just the seven draft picks that the Cardinals made or
(04:47):
the ninety players currently on the roster, but detailed about
every single draft prospect. But there were a number of
points during that interview paul I wanted to discuss here
on Cardinals cover two presented by Day probably partner of
the Arizona Cardinals, and the time since the draft, as
more and more people are dissecting the draft classes around
(05:09):
the league and these individual players. The one narrative that
has come to mind with the Cardinals is the first
two picks Walter Nolan IID and Will Johnson boom or bust,
And that seems to be the consensus opinion amount around
most people locally nationally because of what was talked about
(05:31):
those players going into the draft.
Speaker 3 (05:33):
How true is it?
Speaker 1 (05:34):
Who knows character concerns, injury concerns, and all of a sudden,
those are two players.
Speaker 3 (05:39):
That the Cardinals have on their roster.
Speaker 4 (05:41):
But in your.
Speaker 1 (05:42):
Conversation didn't seem like either whether it was the character
issues perceived for Walter or the injury issues for Will Johnson,
neither really a concern for the Arizona Cardinals because if
they were, I can pretty much guarantee neither would be
on the right. Is certainly not with the first or
second round picks respectfully.
Speaker 3 (06:03):
Even to start this week, Craig, you pointed out the
NFL dot com story where they ranked everyone's draft class.
You know, one through thirty two, Cardinals were top ten.
They were ranked tenth. But in the summary the Cardinals
draft I'm quoting now NFL dot Com, Manni Ostenford took
big swings on pedigree talent early, then later in the
(06:24):
analysis Austin Ford swung from the heels on Thursday and
Friday night. That's not the way the Cardinals draft room
sees it. That's not the way MANI and JG and
Dave Sears see it. And that was essentially the genesis
of the question that I put to Dave Sears was,
you know, the national narrative is as I just quoted,
(06:44):
and his response was, well, a lot of disbelief. I think,
you know, a lot of confusion by the Cardinals draft
room what they call media misinformation. And so that's the
intriguing part about this. And when Manni and Dave Sears say, hey,
there are thirty two different boards, Hey, they're not kidding
b In this case, there really is a disparity. There
(07:06):
really is a disconnect between what a lot of other
teams and how they viewed and assessed a Walter Nolan
the third and a Will Johnson even draft Knight itself.
Ian Rappoport put out that a lot of NFL teams
see quote longevity issues end quote with the knee of
Will Johnson. Will Johnson scoffed when he met the media,
(07:28):
So that hasn't been an issue for nearly two years.
So who's right? How is this going to play out?
It's you know, it's it's why the draft is so
intriguing and why it's the original reality TV. Nobody really knows.
Everyone reads it differently. There are different medical evaluations, different
personality assessments on both players around the league. So hey,
(07:50):
if the Cardinals are accurate in their assessments, there's no
doubt they got a pair of guys who talent wise,
are both top fifteen.
Speaker 1 (07:57):
Everyone's got their own opinion, and opinions vary across the
league to the point where, Okay, one team sees Walter
Nolan as they can't miss. The other one says, you
know what, that's not a chance we're willing to take
same thing with a Will Johnson. So again, it falls
now on the players themselves to prove themselves right and
(08:19):
say no, those narratives that were attached to us don't belong.
And all it takes is one report or one talking
head to say something. But the difference is what we
see on film, but what player of what teams have
over others. During this pre draft process, Paul is getting
to talk to these individuals one on one, spend quality time,
(08:42):
not just a random interaction if you will, or a
five minute meeting, and then diving into the medicals where
everything gets scrutinized and you do deep in depth analysis
on not only the person, but certainly the body as
well as far as can you hang in the NFL?
And what does longevity mean? Is that a second contract?
(09:04):
Is that four years?
Speaker 3 (09:05):
Is that five years?
Speaker 1 (09:08):
The life of an NFL player is what just over
three years on average or not even three years? So
what does that mean? If the Cardinals can get seven
eight years out of Will Johnson, to me.
Speaker 3 (09:19):
That's success. Well, think about it. Their first three picks
were all elite coming out of high school elite. Walter
Nolan coming out was rated ahead of Travis Hunter as
ESPN's number one overall prospect in the twenty twenty two
recruiting class, Will Johnson was top twenty nationally. Jordan Birch,
(09:43):
I saw one ranking coming out, was the fourth rated
prospect overall in his recruiting class Georgia Alabama LSU. Everyone
wanted Jordan Birch. So if you assess that the person
is a quality person and someone at what's the first filter?
JG always uses, do we want this guy in our building?
(10:06):
So if you've decided yes, there's no disputing the talent.
Those top three guys they drafted have some freakish measurables.
They have some really good football difference maker, game changer
ability on film, proven over a even like Walter Nolan
and Drew stand made this point with us on the
(10:28):
Red Sea Report. Okay, it's great. You know, you got
a guy who's gonna get to the quarterback and all
that and a disruptive three technique, but it starts with
stopping the run. And if you look back at his
Pro Football Focus run stopper grade, it was number two
in the country at his position, behind only Mason Graham
who went top five.
Speaker 4 (10:47):
So there's a.
Speaker 3 (10:48):
Lot to like in every one of these guys. If
indeed you like the person and you like the Medical
and the Cardinals. There was a double thumbs up on
both on all those guys. So now let's roll and
see what you have.
Speaker 1 (10:58):
Pro Football Focus has Walter Nolan as their seventh ranked
prospects period, and that again goes to the talent all
of a sudden slipping to sixteen, and Will Johnson, the
talent certainly a top ten, top fifteen talent, sliding.
Speaker 3 (11:14):
To forty seven.
Speaker 1 (11:15):
So it goes back to, all right, who's right, who's wrong?
We will have it play out in front of us
each and every week once we get to September. But again,
on paper, you certainly like what the Cardinals did addressing
all three levels of their defense with each of their
first three draft picks.
Speaker 3 (11:32):
I mean, for example, look, I don't want to go
all hot take here and get over my skis with
expectations and how you see these guys impacting the Cardinals defense.
But if Walter Nolan played an inordan amount of snaps,
like he played almost the entire game for ole Miss,
and you come in and now he's gonna get thirty
to thirty five snaps, I mean, and he's able to
let it rip over those three dozen snaps, He's going
(11:56):
to get in a game that's gonna be something to
behold potentially. And then a Will Johnson if he had
come out a year earlier after he was the defensive
MVP of the National Title Game, where would he have
been drafted? So, if you're telling me Will Johnson is
going to come in from day one if he can
master the defense schematically and Nick Ross JG Can trust
(12:17):
him mentally, are you telling me he's not going to
make a run against Starling Thomas, against Sean Murphy Bunting.
I easily see him coming in and making a run
at a starting gig from day one. And as much
as this coaching staff loves to have these guys earn
it and I get it, there are certain talents who
have been starters ever since they were drafted, Paris Johnson
(12:39):
Junior for example. So I figure these guys to me
will be factors.
Speaker 1 (12:45):
Right away you mentioned schematically, and that's kind of where
I want to take this conversation now. Is what we
expect this defense to look like personnel wise?
Speaker 3 (12:55):
Paul?
Speaker 1 (12:55):
It is complete overhaul as far as the talent that
has been added to the defensive line, to the outside
linebacker room. And we know that the strength on paper,
at least last year was the secondary. But I'm of
the opinion that this defense is gonna look a lot different,
meaning how many defensive linemen are on the field. Is
(13:16):
it a four to three, which is what Jonathan Gannon
was quote unquote raised under. As far as his NFL background,
all the defensive coordinators, he learned from four to three.
It wasn't until he got to Philadelphia that he kind
of dabbled and learned more about the three to four.
He inherited a three to four here based off the
(13:37):
roster with the Arizona Cardinals. But you add depth to
the defensive line. You've drafted two defensive linemen in each
of the past two first rounds and Darius Robinson and
Walter Nolan. You resign LJ. Collier, you bring in Dalvin Tomlinson,
you bring in Kaleis Campbell, not to mention quote unquote
hopefully a healthy Justin Jones and Balaon Nichols. That's a
(14:00):
loaded room where if you're gonna play a three four
and keep six, you're gonna keep someone out of that
room to where I think you're gonna have more of
a rotation. That's why I kind of see more of
a seven or eight man defensive line room, which would
mean more d lineman on game day, every single snap.
Speaker 3 (14:21):
It's a valid observation, there's no doubt. I mean, I
think you're astute to look at it that way. It's
one of the reasons I asked Dave Sears. Now, wait
a minute, refresh our memory. How many defensive linemen did
the Cardinals come out of camp with the last two years.
The answer was six. But you tell me who's going
when you have eight legit defensive linemen. Darius Robinson, Walter Nolan,
(14:42):
Dallan Thompson, Tomlinson, Kalais Campbell, Justin Jones, Ball Nichols both
back from injury, Dante Still's LJ.
Speaker 4 (14:48):
Collier.
Speaker 3 (14:49):
That's eight, and then Ben Stilly, who got some reps.
But no longer are these the days, with all due respect,
that you have to go back on into the stream,
bring back guys that you cut guys off the practice squad.
There's no more walking down on the Sideline'm like, wait
a minute, Hoskins, who's Phil Hoskins. Wait, he's in uniform
this week? You know, a Nakwon Jones, a Kyrie's Tonga
(15:09):
I mean, you have some really proven, talented, highly thought
of defensive linemen right now. So what does that mean?
I tell you this much. I mean it's going to
be a totally different training camp. I think the vibe,
just the intensity, the urgency, the compete level at camp
this year. I mean, let's be honest, last few years,
how many spots really up for grabs? Two or three?
(15:33):
I mean legit. Now, look you've got a dozen corners
on this roster, and then look at the outside linebacker,
the edge room, and so it's really intriguing. And if
you want to get the best out of your roster,
raise the compete level because that's the one way to
motivate in the NFL and Professional Sports Job Security Week eighteen.
Speaker 1 (15:54):
The two deep defensive line Dante Stills, Roy Lopez, LJ Collier,
the backups nay Kwon Jones, Kyrie's Tonga, Darius Robinson.
Speaker 4 (16:05):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (16:05):
So, and look, it was, you know it was sometimes
it was going with four and five defensive linemen at
times just had a necessity to stop the run. You
had to throw bodies in there, a body in every gap.
But now, if you have the ability in terms of
the talent level with these defensive linemen at Dalvin Thomlinson
(16:26):
talking about a proven run stuffer. You know Kalaiis Campbell's
ability to do that. Justin Jones Ball Nichols when they
were signed a year ago, that was their mantra was
stopping the run because the Cardinals had had such issues
in twenty twenty three. So to me in a division
where the Seahawks want to run the ball, and we
know Christian McCaffrey's going to be back, we know what
Kien Williams has done, and the Cardinals did a much
(16:47):
better job last year than they did the year previous
Kien Williams in that Rams run game. But you know,
Sean McVay still wants his stuff in between the tackles
as much you know, publicity as he gets for throwing
the ball down the field. So that is a mustiness
of Cardinals are much more equipped to stop the run
right now. And then with some you know Darius Robinson
or Walter Nolan, these kind of guys you know, being
(17:09):
really disruptive from the inside out, it's going to be intriguing.
Speaker 1 (17:13):
You play these division opponents twice. So how much of
what we're seeing relies or looks at Okay, what do
we need to do talking about the Arizona Cardinals to
make the playoffs, Well, the easiest path is to win
your division. How do we win the division? To your point, Paul,
every defensive coordinator says it starts with stopping the run.
But with the Cardinals equipped to stop the run in
(17:36):
year one, got a little bit better in year two,
but now year three, the emphasis on that front seven
to stop each and every opponent within the NFC West,
And I think that's where this is going to. Where
you're going to see four defensive linemen, maybe three, but
more guys up to the line of scrimmage and give
(17:58):
the back end a little bit more help, meaning the
quarterback's not gonna have as much time to throw the football.
Speaker 3 (18:04):
What did we learn from Drew stan last month? The
term Santa claus that's what quarterbacks call it when an
interior defensive lineman ends up in your lap.
Speaker 4 (18:13):
So what's the best.
Speaker 3 (18:14):
Way to really go against Matthew Stafford? Mister, I get
rid of the ball in one point seven seconds, right,
It's to be really disruptive in the interior of the
offensive line, sort of like what the Eagles did to
him in the playoff game, even though they still kept
that a one score game all the way to the
very end in the snow. But that's I mean, that's
really the only way you get to Matthew Stafford. Are
(18:35):
you coming off the edge and getting to Matthew Stafford?
Not too often, just because he gets rid of the
ball so quickly. He's such a really good decision maker
at age thirty seven. Okay, now let's look at Sam Donald.
Where did Sam Donald struggle big time last year and
those last two games Detroit? And then what did the
Rams do in that that playoff game? They got to him,
and they got to him quick, and he was deer
(18:58):
in the headlights and he got sacked what seven one
game and nine in the other Sam Darnold, So if
he's going to be the Seahawks starting quarterback, that's the
best way to go against that. And then brock Purty.
We've seen brock purty sneaky athleticism when you're able to
crash from the edges and he's able to extend a
play and get rid of the ball. But once again,
brock Purty, you get that penetration up the middle. So
(19:18):
again you're building from the inside out. I think you're
going to be playing defense from the inside out. It's
the reason why the Cardinals spend number sixteen on an
interior defensive line in that disruptive presence. And if you
want to go back to JG with the Eagles, what
did he have Fletcher Cox? And what did Adrian Wilson
tell us? He really Walter Nolan reminds him in a
big way of a Fletcher Cox in terms of what
(19:40):
he'll do for the scheme overall. And that's perhaps what
Jonathan again and Nick Rolis were thinking. Let's go back
to the Philadelphia days. And oh, by the way, that
Eagles defense just hoisted a Lombardi Trophy as well.
Speaker 1 (19:51):
I just went back and looked it up. The Cardinals
in year one against the run defensively dead. Last last
year they ranked twenty against the run. So, again, what
is this team doing in the offseason to get better?
It begins defensively, because we keep talking about and we're
gonna talk about it a lot. They're running it back offensively.
(20:15):
There is not gonna be anything that we see that
is any different. There might be a couple of wrinkles,
but as far as personnel wise, outside of right guard,
everyone is back. It's defensively that has done as you
like to say, the Home Improvement or Home Makeover.
Speaker 3 (20:30):
Edition Stream Makeover Craig HGTV.
Speaker 1 (20:33):
I mean you watch, I don't as far as what
this defense is going to look like. And another conversation
that you had with Dave Sears a comment about because
he was the one that mentioned when you were talking
about Jordan Birch, she said any three to four defense
and I heard that and is like, Okay, maybe I'm
completely off base when I think maybe it's going to
be a four to three, but he mentioned he sorry, Craig,
(20:54):
any three for Hey, I'm gonna believe it until I
see differently, it's right, any three to four defense. The
outside linebacker is position is basically the engine that runs
the thing. And again, what did we see Josh wet
Big Free Agent edition home run out of the gate
and then Jordan Birch on day two added to a
(21:14):
room that a year ago at this time, Paul, the
only addition was Xavier Thomas. And you look at who's
in that room now, and Xavier might have a hard
time making this roster. Not to say that it won't
be on the team. But as far as if you're
looking to project who you're keeping four or five, there
are going to be a numbers crunch along that front seven.
Speaker 3 (21:35):
And don't forget how effective mac Wilson Senior was in
some of those packages last year and actually second half
of the year. Really he was more of an outside
linebacker for the most part than an inside linebacker. Just
got a necessity, So you're right, Josh Sweat, Okay Zavi
and Collins who was used in so many different ways,
the baron a pass rush, Baron Browning who was never
(21:57):
quite totally healthy a year ago, and then he was
re signed a former third round pick himself, bg O
Jelari complete sleeper at this point, I include myself. I
keep forgetting b Joe Jelari and as good as he
looked before he went down with a knee injury, you
have no idea how last year would have played out
in his second year in the league. What is in
(22:20):
store there? We don't know. We know Jordan Birch has
ridiculous measurables and talent and a lot of even though
we had a lot of production last year at Oregon.
For everything that he is athletically and his measurables. He
did have quite a bit of good production last year
for Oregon, so that is very intriguing. And then Mac
Wilson Sr. And then from what I've been hearing about
Xavier Thomas, he's been winning the off season. He's definitely
(22:42):
put on some muscle mass Xavier Thomas. So, Okay, to
your point, it's a much more competitive outside linebacker edge room.
I mean, the compete level there is huge. And once again,
just like the D line room, is there a room
for every name we just listed? And if there isn't,
there's gonna be a guy cut who's gonna be snapped
(23:02):
up by another team. And you do not see that
the first two years.
Speaker 1 (23:05):
And that's that's what you want to see happen because
it's a signal that the front office their decisions on
who they're bringing in, they're bringing in quality players to
ramp up the competition. Because to your point, if you're cutting,
however many players and none of those are landing anywhere
else or getting claimed on those final cuts, then do
(23:28):
you question why you brought them in? And to begin with,
I mean, yeah, there are scheme fits and stuff like that.
What you want to do offense and defense. But if
you're Manty Austin Ford, it's going to be you're gonna
have a lot of sleepless nights. As far as all right,
and again, I realize we're talking here first week in May.
You don't have those conversations if you're the front office
(23:48):
until late August. But it's what we talk about now
because it's what we have to talk about.
Speaker 3 (23:53):
As far as all.
Speaker 1 (23:54):
Right, we release this player, we're not gonna see them,
We're not gonna be able to bring them back because
they've played so well, or it's another team is going
to snatch them up because we have a hole now
because you guys took all the available talent.
Speaker 3 (24:11):
It's always interesting Labor Day weekend, right, Nobody does this,
including myself because you know we're enjoying Labor Day weekend.
But if you really want to get an assessment of
how talented your NFL team's roster really is, take a
look at their cuts and whether anybody else pursues the
guys that hit the street. And if one team all
of a sudden has a number of players who are
(24:31):
snapped up immediately by other teams, it's a tell. It
is a tell. Like, Wow, Okay, that team is talented
and that roster is deeper than maybe because there's very
little that gets past NFL evaluators. I mean, if somebody
hits the street and they can play, they will play
for someone. And that's not even including whether Maria Support
(24:53):
makes another signing a free agent who's still out there.
I mean, I'll just throw out names and it's nothing.
It's not newsworthy. I'm not reporting anything. But if you're
going for a veteran receiver and Amari Cooper's still out there,
if you're going for another veteran guard to bring in,
there's a couple of guys still out there, what exactly
you know, maybe maybe at another safety or inside linebacker,
(25:15):
if there's a veteran out there and approve it deal.
Who knows. But once again, as currently constructed, I would
not be shocked if there's one, two or three more
free agents, veteran guys who are brought in between now
and the starter camp. Then might even bolster at the
compete level. Defensively, though you think I'm probably not in
(25:35):
the front seven, maybe maybe a veteran Mike linebacker might
still be out there, and I might be just completely
you know, blowing smoke right here, because I haven't looked
at who's still available. But I think it is a
legitimate question who's still out there at inside linebacker. And
the only reason I say that is I fully expect
the Cardinals to go into rookie Minuti camp and they'll
(25:57):
get their first assessment on Cody Simon. Is he swimming?
Is he handling this playbook? How does he look out there?
Can he command a defense? Can he truly do it?
I asked Dave sears Hey, how big a jump do
you consider green Dot in college, especially at a high
level at Ohio State, all the way through the national
title game where he's the defense of MVP to the
(26:20):
NFL and now all of a sudden, you're calling a defense,
but the guy calling the players on the other side
is Sean McVay Kyle shanahan. Right from the outside looking in,
that seems like a huge leap. But to Drew Stand's point,
if you're playing a more simple defense because you can
keep it a little more simple because you have dudes
now like you didn't have two years ago, and it's
(26:40):
not all exotic you have to scheme everything up. Okay,
maybe it is easier as a rookie to call that defense.
Maybe Buddha Baker steps in helps out a little bit
in a mac Wilson senior who knows with some of
the adjustments in the audibles and reacting to when a
defense starts doing something crazy when they break the huddle.
But to me once again, like let's just say Cody
Simon is swimming as a rookie, and now you might
(27:03):
be more app did the free agent market. Maybe you
are in the market for more veteran inside linebacker you
feel more comfortable with initially, and you give Cody Simon
as a rookie a bit more of a learning curve
going forward.
Speaker 1 (27:16):
The conversation that you had with Dave Sears as far
as what he mentioned about Cody Simon, and sometimes you know,
you listen to it or you watch it and something
slips through the cracks and you have to listen to
it again. And I listened to it again over the weekend,
and your conversation about Cody Simon. Dave Sears did mention
that they have a quote path for him to make
(27:36):
the team. Now he's going to make the team. But
I read that or I listened to that, and I'm like, okay,
there's a path, all right. Can he be a Day
one starter? Can you have a Day three pick be
a Day one starter at a position that a couple
of years back they wanted to do it with Zavon
Collins not quite ready now. Quality of competition that Zave
(27:59):
and Fai versus Cody at Ohio State. And I mentioned
this late last week was Zach Kerspin when he would
join me here on Cardinals cover two, because I remember
the conversation about zab and Collins. We had Lorenzo Alexander
and he brought up the name Tremaine Edwins Edmunds, who
was a first round pick, Day one starter with that
(28:22):
green dot in twenty eighteen with the Buffalo Bills. So
it can be done. But to your point, Paul, it
is a giant leap from college, regardless if you're a
Power five or a Power four these days. It is
something that I think the Cardinals see. But is it
right out of the gate in September or is it
going to take a little time to where Okay, maybe
(28:44):
it's Mac doing most of that and Cody they can
kind of bring along slowly. But just listening to the
conversation what Dave was saying about Cody Simon. It doesn't
sound like they project him to be someone that's going
to take a little time to get to where that
green dot becomes comfortable and he can command the ten
of the guys on the field.
Speaker 3 (29:05):
I mean, he played in fifty eight games at Ohio State,
thirty starts, four time academic All Big Ten. So he
has a mental acuity and capacity to handle it. It's
just the learning curve how much how soon can he
command it? And actually, you know, the key is during
the trust, not only the trust of the coaches, but
the trust of the other ten guys out there that
(29:26):
you can handle it. I remember when Kaizer White came in,
and it was a big transition. The year prior, Zavin
Collins as a rookie had done a lot of that,
and guys raved Kaizer White came in and he had
four or five years in the league. He'd been a
middle linebacker where the charges earlier before the Eagles and
guys like oh Man, he's spinning out the calls immediately,
he's making the checks immediately. That helps that extra split
(29:47):
second that you have to actually know what's coming and
to get in position can be huge. It can be huge,
especially when teams are breaking the huddle, getting up with
the ball trying to snap it. They'll do different things
to mess with your timing and your ability to call
a D fence and adjust. So a Cody Simon, if
if he's able to be that guy, and I'm guessing
because he had multiple meetings with Jonathan Gannon and Manti
(30:10):
acid Ford that they probably peppered him. They probably got to,
you know, okay, how much can this guy handle? How
soon we like it? The football IQ is there, and
then all the other leadership aspects of being a team
captain and the block o jersey and everything else, and
you know, and then here's the last thing on inside linebacker,
and I firmly believe this, and that is John Campbell
(30:32):
ran a four to five to one. Cody sam Simon
ran a four point six flat. Is there a significant
difference there? Yes, that can be sideline to sideline, But
you know what, you know what can make up for
that difference instincts is an inside linebacker. You can bring
a guy in there who runs the four to four,
but if he's a little hesitant or he's a little
step slow and read and react. He's not playing like
(30:54):
he runs a four to four as opposed to a
guy as really excellent and superior instincts and can read
and react and seek and destroy immediately. Now it looks
like he's a four point six guy like Cody Simon
could appear to be playing at like a four point
four speed. And that was always Tyron Matthew ran the
four to five, had the character concerns fell to the
(31:14):
third round. As soon as you got him out on
the field, You're like, oh man, this dude is so instinctive.
He plays like he runs a four to three. If
that could be Cody Simon just based on his his
superior experience at Ohio State, then yeah, if he can
master it and he can spit it out, he can
lead a defense. There's no doubt in my mind he
could be a Day one starter a four to five.
Speaker 1 (31:35):
But your instincts, you're already a step ahead because you're
you're anticipating what you know is going to happen. And
speaking of speed, the last player that I want to
bring up here, based off your conversation on The Big
Red Rage with Dave Sears as Denzel Burke, who ran
a four, four eight forty, So he's got the speed,
but it's the quality of competition. Again, this is a
(31:56):
Day three selection, but you referenced that article on NFL
as far as the Cardinals' draft grade and how they
ranked among the other thirty two teams. On this article,
they listed Denzel Burke as a sleeper pick based off
his fifty one career starts and his level of experience
against quality competition, not so much on game day. But
(32:18):
it's what Sears said during practice. Denzel Burke practiced against
five first round wide receivers the last couple of years
Monday through Friday, to where Saturday became quote unquote easy
or easier because he wasn't facing a first round draft
(32:39):
pick across from him on game day, but during the
week he got it every single day, every single rep.
Speaker 3 (32:47):
You know what's amazing. There was a stat about him.
He's the first true freshman Buckeye to start a season
opener on defense since Andy Katzenmoyer in nineteen ninety six.
We're old enough to remember that name, and you know
what I mean, think about I can't wait to get
him in here and actually talk to him, and I'm
going to go Allen Iverson. I'm gonna talk to him
about practice, man, and I'm gonna ask him. I think
(33:09):
the number is six. Chris Olave, Garrett Wilson, Marvin Arson Junior,
Jackson Smith, and Jigba a mecho Abuca. That's five. The
question is did he go against Jamison Williams who is
at Ohio State and then transfer to Alabama and was
a first round pick? And I think he did so.
I think it's a half dozen different first round receivers
that he won against. So are you telling me he's
(33:32):
gonna if let's say he makes a run in a
starting spot. Let's just say because he started fifty one
games at Ohio State, he comes in, you think he's
gonna be wide eyed going against an NFL receiver. No,
all he has to do is is flashback in his
own mind going against first rounders all four years of
(33:52):
his college career at Ohio State. So I'm really curious
to see as a fifth rounder what he he looks like.
You know how works creg at Cardinals camp. The SEC
guys always look a little different, right, They just they're
not wide eyed. And then someone like Denzel Burke with
all that experience going all the way through national title
games and everything he had to deal with, and he
(34:15):
had a roller coaster ride at Ohio State. You go
through his career, Buckeye fans will tell you there were
times where he was persona on grado with a fan
base like he had some tough games. He had a
tough game against Oregon that was out there for everyone
to see. But he's a fighter and he's a baller
and he has a lot of those intangibles that you
look for.
Speaker 1 (34:34):
Had a very good college playoff as far as his
coverage ability, and Pro Football Focus had Burke as one
of the best zone coverage cornerbacks in the draft class,
and we know that is kind of what defensively we
see a lot is zone scheme in that secondary. So
could you have someone who is a fifth round pick
(34:54):
come in and competes in what is a loaded cornerback
room and make a push, Again, going back to our
initial conversation, it's something to discuss here in May. We
won't know until we get to training camp to really
know who's out there and not swimming. As far as
you know, you can kind of look in their face
and they're thinking a little.
Speaker 3 (35:14):
Bit too much out there.
Speaker 1 (35:16):
But the fact that you've got Ohio State guys, the
fact that you've got Texas guys, Michigan guys, SEC guys.
How much better are they going to be as far
as the quality of competition to where those first one
on one matchups at State Farm Stadium and training camp,
they're not wide eyed. It's okay. I can harken back
(35:37):
to my days on a Wednesday afternoon in Anna Arbor.
Speaker 3 (35:41):
All right, let's go.
Speaker 1 (35:42):
I'm ready.
Speaker 3 (35:43):
And here's the other thing that jumps out from his
scounter report. He's fierce and run support and tackles with
good technique and does not shy away from ball carriers.
That's a must with Jonathan Gennit, it's an absolute must.
You better defend the run if you're a corner. And
then when he was meeting the media, Denzel Burke also
mentioned and I have the loose quote here. He said,
(36:04):
you know what I'm all about proving everyone wrong who
didn't take a chance on me? What did Will Johnson say?
Speaker 4 (36:11):
Oh?
Speaker 3 (36:11):
Will Johnson was triggered, he was hot, he was not
happy that he felt around too. If you're looking for
two rookies to come into camp with the old chip
on the shoulder pad, if you will, you're looking at
those two corners, and then you're looking at Max Melton,
high second round pick a year ago, Sean Murphy Bunting,
highly paid free agent Starling Thomas, who has started most
(36:36):
of his first two years in the league, has over
twenty starts in two years as an undrafted rookie free agent.
He is no foreigner to fighting and competing. I mean,
it's like so on in that cornerback room. And then
Garrett Williams, who's already a made man after two years.
I mean he's in. Garrett Williams is in now the
other two and I'm going with three corners, and I'm
(36:57):
listening garat Williams' starter and Nick.
Speaker 1 (36:59):
He almost doesn't count because you can count him and
look at everyone else.
Speaker 3 (37:03):
Yeah, Buddha and Garrett Williams. Okay, Jalen Thompson. We presume
although Rabbit is a sleeper, I think in this training
camp there's no doubt about that now that he's mastered
the defense. And it was a process, very radically different
scheme than he played at Texas Tech. But you saw
him in December and January, and every time he's on.
Speaker 4 (37:20):
The field man. You know he's on the field rabbit,
but those that cornerback spot, both spots, you could argue
that could be the most competitive position battle on this team.
Speaker 1 (37:31):
Elijah Jones is another name to watch because you invested
a third round pick in him a year ago. He
didn't see the field, hartly saw any practice. Now all
of a sudden, I mean, if you're him, is it
You're just like one of those unfortunate situations to where
it's gonna be hard to stand out among the rest.
Speaker 3 (37:53):
Here's what I would say on Elijah Jones. He's still
like the football character, great dude, highly competitive. If he's
six two, I mean he is long. He has some
really good measurables, but he's behind the learning curve because
he did not get out on the field as a rookie.
So you know that hole making the jump from year
one to year two, Well, he hasn't even had year
(38:15):
one to make that jump to year two because he
really has no foundation from year one because he was
just riddled with injuries and he just even on the
practice field, he wasn't able to be like a scout
team corner a lot of last season and compete against
the Cardinals ones his starters. So what does that mean. Now,
we got a lot of experience in Boston College and
(38:35):
he's an older guy. Can he make up for that
with some of that maturity That remains to be seen.
Speaker 1 (38:40):
By the way, the rookies will be in later this week.
Rookie Miniicamp is this weekend. But as we speak here
on this Monday, there is action and activity on the
football fields behind us here in studio. Phase two of
offseason workouts has begun. Now there's not much of a
difference between Phase one and Phase two. The biggest changes
(39:02):
coaches can now be on the field. Now you're still
in T shirts and shorts, no helmets, but you add
the element of okay, we've worked in the classroom. Now
let's go out on the football field and you're not
going full speed, but now you have the coaches that
can guide or hey. In terms of the offense, we're
hitting the ground running because there's not a ton of difference,
(39:24):
barely any difference between last year's offense and this year's offense.
As far as again the personnel and the players that
are out on that football field.
Speaker 3 (39:32):
And you know what, we haven't had a chance to
watch it, but coaches watch everything and they are allowed
out there now right two And are you gonna win
a job? No, No, you're not winning a job in May.
But you can tell if a guy is behind. You
can tell if a guy is getting absolutely roasted or
(39:53):
not up to snuff with the other guys out on
the field. We've seen that at rookie mini camps over
the years. Guys have come in and I know, okay,
a nice show, and that's great, but you gotta wait
for the veterans. But if you're lagging behind the rest
of the rookies, that's usually a bad sign. So it's
the first indicator as to who needs to pick it
up and or you know, who might have been overdrafted,
(40:15):
and or who doesn't even belong on the field. In
terms of some of the undrafted rookies, you can usually
tell right away, right the guys who are brought out,
And so it is telling. It is every single session
is a competition.
Speaker 1 (40:30):
Who is taking off season work seriously and who isn't.
Everyone goes back to, all right, can you win a job?
Speaker 3 (40:37):
No?
Speaker 1 (40:37):
But can you really stand out? And the one that
comes to mind this is a while back, but Steve
Preston used off season workouts to become the third wide
receiver and have a thousand receiving yards on that Cardinals team.
So yeah, you can make a jump even though you're practicing.
As BA would always say, T shirts and shorts, you're
(40:58):
playing soccer out there.
Speaker 3 (40:59):
But guys that take it seriously get rewarded. So if
you go to Asycardinals dot com and you go through
some of the photos of the off season, you can
see Marvin Arrison Junior, right, I mean he's he's definitely
yoked up a little bit. Looks like you, Paul Xavier Thomas.
I gotta hit the gym, I really do. And then
you know the one I want to see though, Does
anybody have any intel on Isaiah Adams? Has he been
(41:21):
winning the off season? What does Isaiah Adams look like?
That's the sleeper to me, the third round pick out Illinois.
He had some really good skills, you had some really
good technique. Need to get a little stronger, put on
some good weight. Is he crushing the off season like
Zach Allen did years ago from year one to year two?
And if so, if so, that might explain why they
(41:46):
haven't invested more into offensive line a veteran guard and
free agency for example, dot dot dot. I don't know,
but I am intrigued to see what does Isaiah Adams
look like and is it noticeable kinning for those of
us who haven't seen him in mon do you walk?
Speaker 2 (42:00):
We go?
Speaker 3 (42:01):
Oh? Okay, Hello, Yeah, you've been living in the gym.
So that's the visual.
Speaker 1 (42:06):
I want to see that jump from year one to
year two where you have a full off season to
dedicate yourself and you're not preparing for the combine or
going on the banquet circuit because you can actually focus
on your job. So yeah, some things to look forward
to in the days and weeks to come. Now as
we bring it full circle here on Cardinals cover too,
I mentioned Sinco to mile. Yeah, Paul's got plans. But today,
(42:30):
on this Monday, is also James Connor's birthday. Oh he
is thirty years young. And I stress young, okay, because
I know that's a magic number thirty when it hits
the running backs, especially with the running backs. But James
Connor has shown no signs of slowing down. Have not
seen him this offseason, but that's one player I have
(42:53):
zero concerns about being ready or taking care of his body.
Speaker 3 (42:57):
What was the Jacoby Brussett comment when he was meeting
the media for the first time and New England came
to town week fifteen, and he's like, James Connor, dude looks
like he's aging backwards. That was one of the great
quotes of the off season. But you're right, Craig, I'm
not going to be the one who's gonna ask James
Connor about his thirtieth birthday. Okay, don't ask women the
rage and don't ask thirty old running backs their age.
(43:18):
So there's two things you just don't do as a
matter of decorum.
Speaker 1 (43:21):
Just celebrate the fact that the Cardinals have James Connor
on their roster.
Speaker 3 (43:26):
Yes, And you know what, Trey Benson. I saw him
out at the draft party. He was out there with
Paris Johnson Junior. That you know, there were different tandems
signing autographs and so I saw those two guys together
and Trey Benson looks great. And let's not forget Trey
Benson started to look like James Connor for about a
(43:46):
three game stretch before he dealt with some injuries over
the final month month and a half of the season.
But if you're looking for a guy to take that
year one to year two leap. I know we're talking
to about Marvin Erson Junior, you know, a Max Melton,
But don't forget about Trey Benson, the one of the
other Round three picks who started to adopt that James
Connor mentality and with his size and then his breakaway speed.
(44:12):
What do you ran? He was he was triggered this
time a year ago when he came in. That was
still one of the great quotes. What did he run?
And what did he say he should have ran? Because
he was not happy with his forty time a year.
Speaker 1 (44:22):
Remember what Let's see he ran at the scouting combine.
Speaker 3 (44:26):
I look at it.
Speaker 1 (44:27):
He ran a four to three nine, third fastest among
running backs. But when we had him in here in studio,
he's like, oh, could have been faster? Yeah, I was
like nine, He ran a sub four four, could have
been faster, should have been faster.
Speaker 3 (44:39):
He wanted low four threes. So I mean and once again,
and and and Jonathan again it said this a couple
of times on his TV show last year. You're waiting
for Trey Benson to get to the second level, get
to the third level, and then here gone, because as
soon as he gets that lane, there aren't many guys
who are gonna be able to catch Benson. And it's
(45:01):
gonna happen this year. I think he's going to house
one from forty or fifty yards out. Once you know,
they spring him free and he finds that lane, you're
gonna have to get a really good angle on Trey
Benson or else he's taken at the distance.
Speaker 1 (45:14):
Can't wait to see that. Paul can't wait for the
Sinko to Miyo celebrations. So well, here's the beverage cart
coming by anytime soon. All tender mixologists, where are we right?
Where is the mixologist?
Speaker 3 (45:25):
Well, if you're a mixologist, we got to go to
the mixologist. They don't come to you. That's the way
that works their status, rightfully. So we go to the mixologists.
So if anybody's around over here, please, yes, we get
some you know, table service. I'm not quite at Craigs
level for table service, but I could use a use
someone over here to bring us a beverage. At this
(45:45):
point with lunch, it's Sinko to my own.
Speaker 1 (45:47):
As they say, it's five o'clock somewhere, so enjoy it.
On that note, we'll put a lit on this edition
of Cardinals Cover two presented by Hyundai, proud partner of
the Arizona Cardinals. As always, special thanks to our executive
producer Jim I'm on hunder our associate producer Coddie Fincher.
For Paul Calvic, I'm praig Reylu. We'll talk to you
next time here on Cardinals Cover two
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