Chargers Weekly: Kimes, Brugler, & Kollmann Talk Bolts’ Draft Options

Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:01):
Late fifteen to ten Touchdown Episode three this week of
Chargers Weekly in the NFL, Scout and Combine and Indy
as always, joined by Matt Buddy Smith Muddy. This episode
another star studded when Dane Brugler, Mita Chimes, and Brett Colton.

Speaker 2 (00:22):
Yeah, that's what I think we call this Swiss Army
Knife episode. They can do it all. Whatever you want
to talk about, they can cover it, they can dig
deep into it. So you're gonna get a lot of
information here, obviously with Mean on the Draft and the
NFL as a whole, with what she does for NFL
live over there at ESPN, our friend Brett, who just
you know, knows every single player has already watched every
second of tape on every player at the Combine and

(00:44):
in the Draft. And the same thing goes with our
friend Dane over at the Athletic and what he's got
to put in for work when he's doing the beast.

Speaker 1 (00:50):
All three were awesome. We'll get to Dane, we'll get
to Brett, but first, Mina Chimes keep it rolling here
on Chargers Weekly, ESPN's Meda Times joins us and Meta.
We just did this a year ago, does it feel
like a year ago. Yes, yes, it does.

Speaker 3 (01:05):
Year Yeah it has gosh.

Speaker 4 (01:08):
Yes, but I'm excited to be here. It's a fun draft.

Speaker 1 (01:11):
Yeah. Where would you start looking at this draft?

Speaker 5 (01:15):
Well, my process is to really start with the quarterbacks
and watch as much as possible, so that didn't take long.
Hey uh yeah, but also, you know, getting through the
obvious first rounders.

Speaker 4 (01:28):
For me, as soon as the Super Bowl ends is
when I begin.

Speaker 5 (01:31):
I'm not really tapped into college football during the regular season,
so it's kind of like cramming for an exam.

Speaker 2 (01:37):
Yes, with your big brain Ivy education. How about running backs,
it's the renaissance your you know, your favorite childhood team
won a Super Bowl based on a power running game.

Speaker 5 (01:48):
I actually just talked about the Chargers and a running back.
We just clicked something in my mind. Dylan Samson Tennis
gap scheme back, I think the best. I mean Genet's
are we one and he's any scheme, but I think
this is what I said on my show, Greg Roman
will have to be physically restrained not to take this

(02:10):
guy once he watches it, because he's just a perfect
fit for his type of rushing attack.

Speaker 2 (02:13):
Yeah, bring back JK because that's kind of what we've
been talking about, right is what's the just what does
that room look like? Is it bring back JK and
then take a Samson or a Scataboo or somebody like that,
or is it Hey, Omari and Hampton's here at twenty
two and this is a number one back and just
a mean bruiser of it.

Speaker 5 (02:33):
Dude, he's great, But I feel like first round, there's
a lot of other needs for LA that I would
probably I'm maybe not, but that oh no, you're right,
depends on course, Yeah, we were chatting about it.

Speaker 4 (02:46):
If you think obviously depends how things shake out.

Speaker 5 (02:48):
Iol I think is something that has to be prioritized
either because charge obviously have a lot of money, so
free agency could be another area where I would look
to address that, and then you know, another wide receiver
and then defensively, obviously this is tough decisions to be
made with the vets, but you probably want to go
edge there, and there's some really fun edges in this class.

Speaker 1 (03:10):
Well that's the thing. A year ago, edge was so
solidified because yeah, Tully and Budd who are still there,
but Joey and Khalil, you knew we're coming back. Major
questions with both of them. Now, with Khalil being unrestricted
and Joey, how would you attack even in free agency?
I don't usually really good edges don't get to free agency,

(03:31):
But how would you evaluate the current situation that Chargers
are in Knowing that Joey has a thirty six million
dollars cap hit, Khalil unrestricted free agent. You'll hope he
comes back in powder blue, but he'll probably have suitors.

Speaker 5 (03:43):
I think a lot of that depends on what those
guys do, what they're prioritizing in terms of pay and
wanting to hit the market. Because you know, if I'm LA,
that's probably not a position where I'm allocating a ton
of money in free agency. I would rather spend that,
honestly on the interior offensive line and talked about and
maybe find some mid market players at edge or corner.

(04:04):
I mean, one of the great things about Jesse Mentor,
and we learned this very quickly, is he's really good
at maximizing talent and getting guy I mean dramatically outperformed
my expectations on defense, and I do think a lot.

Speaker 4 (04:20):
Of it was coaching.

Speaker 5 (04:21):
So I think as a team, you look at that
and you say, well, you know, this guy seems to
be able to get a lot out of young players,
so maybe we can just continue focusing there.

Speaker 1 (04:29):
I guess that's so how would you evaluate it?

Speaker 2 (04:31):
Mean, so, you know, you've got all of these players
that not necessarily career years, but I'll perform what the
market said they were worth. Does that say probably do
it again? Or does it say these are the perfect
players for what you're doing in you ident Like, that's
what I'm trying to figure out.

Speaker 1 (04:46):
How they balanced it?

Speaker 2 (04:47):
If it's poon Afford and tier Tart, Like, do you
just bring those guys back because they played solo? Or
is the market going to overpay them? And you're like, hey,
there's a reason why everybody did well, because so how
like what would your takeaway be?

Speaker 1 (04:59):
Which one?

Speaker 5 (05:00):
Yeah? I think you let them kind of feel out
the market and see where they come back. I mean,
I'm day one, Pooniford I was like his biggest fan
right his rookie season.

Speaker 4 (05:12):
Oh my gosh.

Speaker 2 (05:13):
Yeah.

Speaker 5 (05:14):
But you know an undrafted with the Sea. Actually, there's
a player in the draft who kind of reminds me
of punaford anias peebles his name. He's built like a
bowling Ball like him similar play style, but anyways, yeah,
I like he's he is a really good example of
a player where like, if he doesn't get priced out
and I think it'll be reasonable. I think also being
a DT heavy draft helps their cause. You'd love to

(05:36):
keep him because he's such a good scheme fit for
what Minter wants to do, but you have to do
it on a case by case basis. I just feel like,
you know, when you think about all this money and
where to spend it, I do look at that again.
I go back to that offensive line as being one
where I don't think you can really like cheat it
as much.

Speaker 4 (05:50):
With coaching, the.

Speaker 1 (05:52):
Division's fascinating now you had pe cald to the mix.
Chiefs are the Chiefs even though there may be some cracks,
but we don't know how how many. Yeah, the Broncos
are coming. How would you evaluate this division right now?
Knowing that Chargers have they have a ton ton of
cap space, a ton of picks, with an opportunity to
kind of build on that eleven win season.

Speaker 5 (06:13):
Shoot, I love to see them push up that Trey
Smith contract and get the Chiefs to either pony or
you know, steal them away. I don't know if people
have if they've been linked to them, and I haven't
seen any of the reporting. I know I saw the
reports that the Chiefs were interested.

Speaker 4 (06:25):
In bringing them back. But make it, make them pay
for it. If I'm in LA, you have so much
more money.

Speaker 5 (06:30):
But yeah, like, look, look, the Chargers were very much
like a head of schedule last year, you know what
I mean.

Speaker 1 (06:34):
Like it was.

Speaker 5 (06:37):
Obviously not a rebuilding team when you have the quarterback
and that coach coming in or the expectations are that
you win. But I think they want more than any expected. Again,
I really think the defense is what really outperformed my expectations.
And so when you do that, when you're kind of
ahead of schedule in some ways, you have a little

(06:57):
bit more leeway, I think, to be a little bit
more selective about you do next.

Speaker 2 (07:02):
You mentioned the You've said it multiple times now, just
the interior offensive line. No, hey, it's it was a huge.
It was probably the one takeaway, the biggest takeaway from
what George said yesterday, it's that Zion. They may try
Zion out at center and see if that's really a
better fit. Forum so interesting, Like so here I ask you,
you know, to kind of read into that. Do you
think that's them acknowledging like, hey, yeah, we might need

(07:25):
two guards not just one guard, And is this the better?
That's what I'm trying to figure out, because, like you said,
you have it available in free agency, you have it
available I think in the draft where they're picking. So
kind of what's yeah, what do you think that means?
And how how would you how do you react?

Speaker 5 (07:40):
I Meank, that's a fascinating comment. First, I'll say the
reason why I'm so dialed in on the iol as
I think ultimately it's what like the season in a
lot of ways, and it's something that I think was
kind of underappreciated. Like the Chargers were kind of misrepresented
in the back end of the year as they were like,
this is his run first team with a great offensive line.

Speaker 4 (07:59):
I was like, I don't know.

Speaker 5 (08:00):
If you guys watching the charters, Because to their credit,
they realized they were not very good at running the football.
Greg Roman, who has that reputation, and Jim Probb comes in,
they go pass heavy because they don't really have a
choice and quarterback is the best player. So Iowa was
just a big problem for them. It was a massive
problem in that playoff loss, and it's something they obviously
have to throw resources at. How they allocate those resources

(08:23):
is going to be really interesting. You talk about I
guess Ortiz talked about potentially Zion moving a center. That
would solve I think my biggest question, which is where
would they get a center? It's not the draft is
there's a lot of guards, not a lot of centers.
And free agency there aren't that many options either. I

(08:43):
guess Doman.

Speaker 4 (08:46):
Kelly is another one.

Speaker 5 (08:48):
So I think it's going to be a mix of
maybe trying in a different position, drafting and being active
in free agency. But if I'm them, I throw a
ton of I mean, you just can't play football the
way that they want to. Let's they fixed that interior
the offensive line.

Speaker 1 (09:02):
You mentioned too. The back half of the year, Justin
was throwing it a ton and he has a reputation
for elevating everyone around him. This offseason, we think that
there's going to be a priority to maybe get him
somebody to throw the ball to outside of Lad McConkey. Yeah, well,
we talk about Will Disley. Will Disley had a career
you're catching the football with with Justin Herbert as his quarterback.

(09:23):
What avenues do you think that they should explore to
maybe find that perfect compliment to lad.

Speaker 5 (09:29):
I now that it looks like the T Higgins sweepsakes
ain't happen, I have been linking them with Devonte Adams
on all of our shows. I mean when like, honestly
like it's soon a super id and we started looking
at potential trade candidates, free agents, cut candidates, whatever, it
just made a ton of sense to me.

Speaker 4 (09:48):
You know, I still think he plays at a really
high level. Obviously.

Speaker 5 (09:51):
I think he's his game compliments lads really easily. I
think with Herbert too. You know, one thing I've always
liked about he will still put a lot of trust
in his receivers even when that trust hasn't rewarded at times.
Adams is the type of player who rewards your trust
if you throwing that back shoulder ball or whatnot. So
I would love to see that pairing, you know. I
think it's something they're going to address in the draft
at some point. Maybe not in the first round, but

(10:13):
I still think they got to make at least one
or two veteran signings because obviously it has to improve
upon last.

Speaker 2 (10:18):
Year when you kind of go through and you're covering
the playoffs and the super Bowl and all that, Like
I'm trying to figure out how to evaluate tight end,
Like how big of a you know, Kelsey was huge
in the Conference championship, nonexistent in the super Bowl? Is
that part of it? I think about Coddard and like,

(10:39):
kind of what rule? So that's because I'm looking at
twenty two. It's like, Okay, you really need that athleticism
at tight end. You just didn't have it seen glaring.
But like you talk about, okay, so it doesn't matter
if the Houston Texans defensive line is in your lap
fifty five percent of your snap. So how would you
like if you're all right, mean and you're the GM
of the Chargers and got you know, your your guard

(11:02):
slash center. Something is there at twenty two? Whoever it
might be that you know the names Booker or Membo
or Gray's Abel or something. And then there's also Coaston Lovelin,
and then there's also Amari and Hampton and like, so
what do you think is the number I guess what
I'm asking is what's the number one thing they have
to do?

Speaker 5 (11:19):
Yeah, it's funny because guys, we're talking about it. I
love how we talk about free agency and the draft
together because that plays such a role in it, Like
do the I would put Garden tight end over running
back or we're talking about first round priorities. By the
way I said we were, I think not taking it.
If McMillan the receivers, I'd, yeah, pick up the phone
and call dial that let that end because I think

(11:39):
he's really underrated talent. And really, I mean t Higgins
is his comp for me.

Speaker 2 (11:45):
So you know, yeah, if you were if you want,
if you were hoping to pay him thirty.

Speaker 5 (11:48):
One million, yeah right, you want a much cheaper rookie.
But I would put tight end in Iol above running
back for that first round. And I think obviously the
evaluation players matters. I'm a big fan of the Michigan
tight end, and there's of course the Harborough connection as well.
But I also he's like a real pass catcher. I mean,
he's so he's a nice pairing with Disley because you

(12:09):
can go out in twelve personnel and you got your
blocking tight end and you have more of the receiving option.
He's like a big slot kind of But you know,
if the tight ends in free agency if you can
get good value, I mean, god, it might be available
to be honest, So, like, do you.

Speaker 2 (12:23):
Like Juwan Johnson? I think that works? Is Herbert's tight
end at Oregon?

Speaker 5 (12:27):
Yeah, he's a good player, I think. I mean, I
would probably rather have Lovelin, but yeah, but would I
rather have Johnson and a guard versus you know what
I mean? I think you have to kind of think
about all these things together.

Speaker 1 (12:40):
What's more, Mark Andrews could be a casualty.

Speaker 4 (12:43):
Been hearing about that.

Speaker 1 (12:44):
Yeah, you know, Orties Baltimore. I don't know how close
do you?

Speaker 2 (12:48):
I'm sorry, Chris, I just wanted to to ask is
like questions how close are you? You know, how close
do you feel you are to win in the division
to push him for this? And that's kind of what
we determine a Mark Andrews DeVante Adams like your guys
like are we that close? Where?

Speaker 4 (13:02):
Totally?

Speaker 1 (13:03):
So?

Speaker 2 (13:03):
I mean, do you think it's that close? Like when
you look at the chargers that you stack the AFC,
where do you think they slot?

Speaker 5 (13:09):
I think that if they're able to address the interior
past protection and add another edge, they're right in there
with everyone else and you'd have to add another weapon
as well.

Speaker 4 (13:22):
So I do think it's worth.

Speaker 5 (13:24):
Adding like it because the other thing about though in Adams,
Sir and Andrews, like especially an Adams type, like, it's
not going to be that much money, so we can
It's not like you're going your mortgaging your future to
compete in the present. I think it would be a nice.

Speaker 1 (13:36):
One waiting twenty twenty five.

Speaker 5 (13:38):
Yeah, honestly, at most maybe I don't know. I'd have
to look back, maybe, like I can thave a few
receiver contracts that were like three years.

Speaker 4 (13:47):
Not too long.

Speaker 5 (13:47):
I don't think he's going to be asking for like
a long term a super long term deal and certainly
not a mega deal. I think it's probably worth it
because the other thing is like you have you have
to consider which positions you're going to pay, like the tackles.

Speaker 4 (14:00):
Sewan's gonna be out pretty soon.

Speaker 1 (14:02):
It's like it's gonna be probably twenty eight twenty nine.

Speaker 5 (14:05):
Right there, So you probably want to add some rookies
on that offensive line sort of balance that of it.

Speaker 1 (14:10):
How do you view Justin Herbert going into year two
with coach Harball hit a fantastic year. Yeah, didn't go
well in the wildcard round. Yeah, and you're going to
hear the chatter until you win a playoff game. Sure,
But how do you view him?

Speaker 5 (14:24):
Yeah, I mean I think his top end play is
up there with every quarterback in all the top quarterbacks
in the NFL. You know, I hate that in our industry,
everybody acts like one game is indicative of your identity
as a player and your career, and we seem to
have the memory of ants you.

Speaker 4 (14:41):
Did not play well in the playoffs.

Speaker 5 (14:42):
But iolla keep going back to the reason why I
keep pounding the table on that was nightmarish in that game.
To be honest, the play was not even just be honest,
but like the past protection was. And you know, people
are so like critical of him him that like if
you even say that, it's like you're making excuses, Like, no,
we're just giving the context for a bad performance. It

(15:04):
was a bad performance. He would be the first person
to say that. Yeah, he definitely has to have a
better one in the playoffs. But I think also as
a team, your obligation, knowing the top and play that
you can get from him is to give him better
circumstances because he had one of the worst group of
pass catchers in the NFL is here.

Speaker 2 (15:19):
Last thing rule changes that are kind of getting kicked around.
You're right, you do you like the dynamic kickoff? Do
you like the I hate what they call it, the
quarterback sneak with assistants? Are you good with that?

Speaker 4 (15:31):
The quarterback sneak with assistant?

Speaker 1 (15:33):
Like, are you good with all the stuff there?

Speaker 4 (15:35):
The dynamic kickoff is? I actually it's I think, like
I get.

Speaker 5 (15:40):
I think doing it for safety reasons made sense, and
the actual outcome feels roughly the same to me. I actually,
like am shocked that anyone has like really strong feelings
one way or the other because it's like the same, right,
it's silly to I feel.

Speaker 3 (15:55):
Like to.

Speaker 4 (15:57):
So that I saw that.

Speaker 5 (15:59):
If they, you know, push it to the thirty five,
I think we'll see more of them, which it's probably
what they want to do. It's fine, sure, I mean
you'd like to see more creativity. I think we thought
we would see it. There was some, but like you
definitely want to see more teams try it, more more
interesting run concepts so that some guys can break a
few off. And as far as the quarterback sneak with assistance,

(16:23):
I mean I think what's been surprising to me is
that more teams haven't invested in trying to do it.

Speaker 4 (16:31):
Like you just don't see.

Speaker 5 (16:33):
The Bills are the only team even close in attempts,
and by the way, that they were incredibly effective at
it until the final game of the season, which by
the way, is an example of scouting your opponent so
you can stop it, so you know, I'm not gonna
have I don't know, super strong takes about it. It's
unnatural or tough it up and learn to stop it.
I just think, like I'm surprised in such a competitive

(16:54):
league were teams are always looking for ed margins or whatever,
that more teams don't try to emulate it because the
thing I always go back to Jason Kelsey, who's now
my colleague, always said, yeah, like we got, you know,
obviously an unbluebly strong quarterback, a blue strong offensive line,
but we practice it over and over and it's the
tension to detail is why we're so good at it.

(17:15):
So it's weird to me that more teams don't do that.

Speaker 2 (17:17):
It's funda like I love it just because I love
watching how that play unfolds because it's every single time
they snap it. It's stopped immediately. But it's rugby, if
you if you appreciate rugby, yes, they don't stop their legs.
They know how to get leverage and churn legs and
that's what makes it.

Speaker 1 (17:37):
You know, if it gets outlawed, you can think Frankie Louv.
I think making sure.

Speaker 4 (17:41):
That that was funny.

Speaker 1 (17:43):
That was funny.

Speaker 5 (17:43):
I don't think I've everything that I forgot. Who was
it tol I forgot the ref was when he was
like stop it, just stop it, stop it.

Speaker 1 (17:49):
Or we're gonna let him score the car around exactly.

Speaker 2 (17:54):
All right, Well, we appreciate we know you're busy man,
so we always appreciate the having you by.

Speaker 1 (17:59):
Thanks Comina. I very please to bring in a friend
of the program, Dave Brugler, author of The Beast, which
is coming out early April. Something we always look forward to,
always look forward to having you here, man. How are
you doing.

Speaker 6 (18:15):
I'm well, this is such an important week too. There's
so much information here. It's crazy. I mean I've been
coming here. My first combine was twents and eleven, so
fifteen years now. It's crazy how much it's grown, the
media aspect, just the amount of people in town just
to meet with other people. So meetings nons I got

(18:38):
here on Saturday, meetings all day, Sunday, meetings all day yesterday, tomorrow.
The interview start here, which is fun. You know, you
have three hundred players coming through here. I've talked to
probably ninety percent of them, but a chance to fill
in the gaps, find out some things from some different
players and the on field stuff. So there's so much
information that comes out of this week that is essential,

(18:59):
you know, the little context points to understand, you know,
about these players in this draft class as a whole.

Speaker 2 (19:05):
So Chris mentions the beast and that you know, when
you hear the word the beast, you know it's gonna
have a lot of players, a lot of evaluations, which
is why I'm gonna make you work here, because we
can't bring everybody on and have you get into seventh round.
Potential of centers, guards, running backs. So let's say because
they can't do what you do, they don't author the beast,

(19:26):
they don't know what you know, Dane, So let's start there.
It's been called, you know, last year's center class was celebrated.
This year's center class is said to be a little
bit thin kind of what do you see from the
class and could there be a couple of those late
round gems that maybe this team could find.

Speaker 7 (19:41):
Yeah, it's a tough center group.

Speaker 6 (19:43):
And that's why seeing Gray's abel and North to go
to State performed like he did Senior Bowl is so
important because teams, even like in October, teams are saying
he might be the best center in the class. He
played center in high school, so it's not completely foreign
for him, but then to see him do it a
Senior Bowl is so huge, just like, all right, we've
got a center. Jared Wilson, the Georgia Center coming out
early was big. Unfortunately he had to pull out of

(20:05):
the Senior Bowl because of a foot issue, but supposed
to be good to go this week. So this will
be a big week for Jared Wilson. One year starter,
so you know, there's maybe some gaps to fill in
with him just you know, he looks like a good athlete,
but he's going to confirm it here because that's what
the combine is. It's a one big cross checking exercise.
Make sure that what we see on film is backed
up in the data. And you know, the interviews, medicals

(20:27):
as well obviously, but overall it's just not it's a
hard center class to get super excited. I'm a fan
of Jackson Slater SACRAMLNTA State. You know, Here's there's a
lot to like about him as a center guard, interchangeable,
versatile player that probably don't have to get him into
the fourth round maybe earlier, just because it is a
light center class and teams will be desperate to get

(20:49):
their guy. But you know, there's teams are going to
be looking under every rock to find, you know, more
centers in this group because it's not a very deep,
deep class. Great you mentioned him and just you know,
you look at the chargers Alt Slater taken care of
the interior offensive line. Going beyond just center.

Speaker 1 (21:08):
What about guard in the first couple of rounds and
are there a few guys that you think would be
a nice fit in Los Angeles?

Speaker 6 (21:16):
Yeah, And I think that, uh, you know, with this
interior class center not great guard better it is I
think a good guard class both early and then late.
I think it stretches a little bit, you know. I
think that there's some tackles that maybe you see, hey
he's a good tackle, but I think you move inside

(21:37):
to guard. I think you might have something, especially we're
talking Michigan ties. Miles Hinton played tackle at Michigan. Maybe
movement inside to guard. I think that's a fit. When
you're talking about outside the top one hundred picks, it's
a deep group. So yeah, I think if you need
guard help, if you're looking for interior offensive line helps,
center might be tough, but guard is gonna be much better.

(21:58):
And it's not just the top guys. I know everyone
wants to move armand Membu from.

Speaker 7 (22:04):
Tackle to guard.

Speaker 6 (22:05):
I think you'd be a really good guard, but tape
sitsing play tackle, but I think you'd be a really
good guard as well. So if you go that direction
in the first round, you kind of cross your fingers
at Memboo last to you. But it's a deep enough
class where I don't think you have to go that
direction early. You could wait till round three, round four
and still pretty good about the options that'll be there.

Speaker 2 (22:23):
It's going to be interesting to see a lot of
it's going to be predicated on the next four weeks
kind of what the Chargers do. Do they bring back
cloth side, do they re sign Khalil Mack, What about
the edge group. It seems like there's potential for some
of these guys to slide a little bit, whether you
know it's immaturity questions things like that versus like Jahad
Campbell's a good icy and edge is the lineback they're like,
you know, it feels like it could be that they

(22:44):
could line up where the Chargers might be staring at
a guy that might not be there in other drafts
when it comes to a premium position like edge. Is
that kind of how you see it?

Speaker 6 (22:52):
Yeah, it's an interesting edge group because of like we
don't have a true Miles Garrett, but Abdul Carter is
going to be one of the top three pick in
the draft. And then after that it's okay, Like you
were saying with Campbell, Jalen Walker, what is he at Georgia?
You know, he's so gifted, he's long, but he's an
off ball player at Georgia. But they let him rush.
That was the best thing that he did. So how

(23:14):
do teams This is a big week for him just
to see how he moves out there. He's supposed to
work out with the linebackers, but just to see how
he moves in space, you know, get his exact testing numbers.
But Jalen Walker, to me is a guy that could
end up being a steal just at edge rusher Shamar
Stewart from A and M is talking about other guy's
gonna build some buzz here. Two or eighty pound shouldn't

(23:36):
move like that. It's impressive. He had a really good
week at the Senior Bowl, and I think teams are
gonna or fans maybe get obsessed with he had one
and a half sacks this year, right, But okay, did
he affect the quarterback and he did consistently. He might
have only had one half sacks, but he led the
team in pressures, so he was getting to the quarterback,
getting to the pocket, and really affecting how they do things.

(23:57):
And you know, he's still just a young players twenty
one years old learning how to use all of these gifts,
and so that tells me he's not gonna make it
to where the Chargers are picking. But if you were
to be there, I think that would be a good pick.
But this is an edge of group that I love.
The depth in the top one hundred picks. You know,
if I can get a J. T. Tumola from Ohio
State in round two. I'm feeling great about that if

(24:18):
I'm the Chargers, a guy that nothing about his tape
says great, but everything says good, you know, And so
you know, if you want him to play the run,
he can do that. He's might not be that explosive
bend the edge rusher, but he can break down blockers
with his hands. Smart player. So yeah, I think this
draft it's not just going to be about the first

(24:39):
round guys. It'll be second round, two, round three, plenty
of variety if they go in that direction.

Speaker 1 (24:45):
You know, Dan, I wouldn't be shocked in the least
if the Chargers address running back in this draft, and
if they do it early. It seems to be a
ton of dudes, Jens obviously the consensus number one. What
is the gap after you get past maybe Hampton, like
the pair of Ohio State running backs? Where do you

(25:05):
or how do you value the running back position? Maybe
beyond the top two guys.

Speaker 6 (25:09):
Yeah, and I'd even throw Caleb Johnson in there as
on that similar tiers as Hampton. I mean, I think
he is outstanding. You're right about the running by class.
It'd be shocked if they don't draft a running back
at some point right. Just I think I graded thirty
two as having draftable grades and not first round grades.
I mean just genty and then not Hampton. Hampton's right there.

(25:32):
Hampton and Caleb Johnson are kind of right there. As
you know, I only have like thirteen first round grades
this year, like they're just not many. But yeah, Caleb Johnson,
I'm maryon Hampton right there looking to break in. I'll
both could go in the first round. It wouldn't be
a shock at all. Treygaan Henderson from Ohio s Day.
And then the guy that doesn't get talked nearly enough
about is Jordan James at Oregon. This guy he's not

(25:55):
going to hit a bunch of home runs, but he'll
lead the league at doubles. I mean he had I
think his thirty six point five percent of his carries
this year resulted in a first down or touchdown. I
mean just when he gets the ball, he might not
take it sixty yards, that'll take it six consistently.

Speaker 7 (26:10):
And so you can win with guys like that. But
it's a deep running back group.

Speaker 1 (26:14):
But it just saw Scatterable on the TV here too.
And that's another guy that people I think people are
excited about.

Speaker 6 (26:19):
I'm eager to see how he tests because he looks
like he might be a four to six guy or
a four to five eight guy. But that's not what
you love about. It's not the speed necessarily, it's the versatility.
It's just how tough he is as a runner. Like
good luck, No one wants to tackle that guy twenty
five times a game. So even in the NFL, like
you're a safety in the open field and you see

(26:40):
this guy coming at you with that you know, low
pad level and just the legs don't stop churning. That
wears you down. And so the way that he catches
the bar of the backfield I think will help him
and it'll show this week. But you know, just interested
to see the testing and how that tests up. Quinch
on Judkins in that mix too. I mean, we could talk,
you know, the whole time about about running backs. It's

(27:00):
such a deep group that I think you're gonna be
tempted to take one in the first round because those
guys are legit talents. But if you have maybe maybe
you have the same grade on the running back as
you do you know, an edge rusher or a different position,
you probably go that other position, because again, you feel
good waiting to surrounds two round three to get the

(27:21):
running back.

Speaker 1 (27:22):
So let's do it.

Speaker 2 (27:23):
That's you know, let's just stick with running back because
it's it's funny you mentioned Caleb and just kind of
the way that people may pack at these things, Like
to me, it felt like Henderson is that next. It
might because we have some scar tissue from the Tampa
game and Bucky Irving and it's just there's such a
similarity there, and there's kind of that Jamier Gibbs sort
of similarity just for a team that's built in the

(27:47):
Jim Harbought image and the idea that like when you
talk about Skataboo, that's that's hard. It's like, hey man,
we're gonna tread water and then the fourth courter, we're
gonna pull you under. That's that reeks of Skataboo. But
then you see the explosiveness of Samson or or two
or just kind of when you think of how this
team is built, it's just assume they're able to bring
JK back. Just kind of which of these backs do
you think fits gap power Harbaugh? Like, of all of them,

(28:12):
kind of which one do you think is you can
draw maybe the most straight line.

Speaker 6 (28:15):
I mean, just thinking about Harbaugh having an all Ohio
State backfield just sounds fun.

Speaker 1 (28:21):
That would be cool.

Speaker 6 (28:24):
But I mean, if we're talking best fits, I mean
Omrian Hampton, I mean that just you talked about the
gap principles.

Speaker 7 (28:29):
You talk about.

Speaker 6 (28:31):
He led the acc in rushing in twenty twenty three,
which is impressive. It was even more impressive what he
did this year with no Drake May. Everyone's loading the box.
You know what's happened with North Carolina's offense wants to do.
He's still running for fourteen hundred yards. So you know,
it's not just the speed, it's not just the power,
it's the total package with him, you know. I Marion Hampton,

(28:53):
I think is going to be one of those guys
you look at and say, can we really pass on
him at this point because he's a perfect fit and
the way he will transform your offense from day one
that that can't be understated. Uh, just what he does
for your quarterback, what he does for the rest of
the offense. So but yeah, I mean, you make you
bring up you know, Dylan Samson, you bring up Trayvon Henderson.
He's like I'm an Ohio guy, so I've seen a

(29:14):
lot of Travon Henderson the last four years, and I
worry a little bit about his on the inside, his
interior vision just kind of picking through the anticipation and everything.
But you get him a track, you get him on
the outside where he has a lane, good luck because
he can make guys miss and then once he gets
that that angle, the acceleration just takes off. So he

(29:35):
is like he can be lightning in a bottle. I
just I don't the big difference between him and a
Gibbs is Gibbs is so good at the offensive line
geometry where he understands the angles, he reads it. He's
an offensive lineman's best friend. He's so true to the
blocking design, where Henderson isn't as quite as sure of
himself in terms of his reads and when everything is

(29:57):
congested in the middle, but you give them a little
bit of space, he's gonna exploit it, you know.

Speaker 1 (30:01):
Dan, I go back to last year and we were
just talking to DJ about lab mcclauchy, for instance, and
how he would probably be a top fifteen pick this
year if he was in this year's with draft class.
Joe Alt a guy who the Chargers got at five.
When you look at what Joe Ortiz and company did
to get cam Hart and tar Heep still in the
fifth round starting caliber corners, how did you see those

(30:24):
guys last year? And I know it's completely new information
this year, but if you can recall just what you
thought of some of the guys that the Chargers hit
on this past.

Speaker 6 (30:33):
Year, Yeah, it's interesting. How you know, I think the
Chargers are the example of drafting. You know, we did
this with the Bengals a couple of years ago with oh,
did they took Penney Suo? Did they take Chase Jamar
Chase with that number five pick that year? In that
draft they went with the receiver, And I think it's
worked out just fine. The Chargers went the opposite way

(30:53):
where they went the offensive tackle and it worked out
just fine. Part of it, I think they got a
little bit lucky because Mconuku made it to them, and
you know, they moved up a little bit. But you know,
I was shocked mconcu made it to the second round.
I mean, I think people kind of over you know,
they looked at the size and said is he a
slot only?

Speaker 7 (31:12):
And you know, I think he's best.

Speaker 6 (31:14):
There's a difference between being slot only and then best
in the slot, Like, yeah, he does a lot of
his damage in the slot, but he's not a slot
only player, and the Chargers able to really benefit from that.
So yeah, home runs were the first two picks. And
then the way tar heeb Is still played. I the
lasting memory for me, but still from his tape of

(31:34):
Maryland was just competitiveness, the way he competes plays. When
you're a corner, you have to be confident in what
you're reading and then so you can drive and make plays.
And he that's exactly what he was on his college tape,
where he would anticipate it, see it, and then drive
on it to make a play. And that's trans You
never know how that's going to translate for corners because

(31:55):
when you're playing against NFL speed, everything's different. You're scared
to make a mistake, so maybe corners don't always make
those jumps. Still, I think was able to do that
where even though it wasn't perfect all the time, he
had some rookie moments, but he bounced back the next
play and had that short memory and so yeah, the
total steal for the Chargers in the fifth round, the you.

Speaker 2 (32:15):
Know, the McConkey ridiculous, the production and like you said,
the fact that we had DJ earlier and he was
mentioned in his top fifteen pick, not like you know,
like that guy's going top fifteen just based on Georgia tape,
not from you know, hindsight being Turner twenty. So that
brings me to t ma AC and how this is
a thin wide receiver group and there are people I

(32:35):
don't know why it's happening if you've noticed it, but
it feels like people are starting to project him to
slide a little bit. Is he a true ax? And
if you look at the way this thing could shake out,
can you imagine him sliding into the teams into that
sort of area based on sort of the talent you
have on the lines and how those tend to go first.

Speaker 6 (32:56):
Yeah, and I think that's we could see it happening.
It was a two years ago when the first receiver
drafted was Jackson Smith and Jigbu and that was like
pick twenty. So could we see another example of that
this year? It's possible. McMillan's interesting because he's he's we'll
see what he runs here, right, you know, but a
lot of people are wonderund it can be over under

(33:17):
you know, four four nine. You know, I he's very
similar to a T. Higgins where he's this law he's
but he's more limber, he's more of a he's like
a gumbeish version of a T. Higgins where the strength
of his game isn't necessarily separation. It's how he wins
at the catch point. And that's always kind of a
risky proposition because how many of those guys are there
really at the NFL level where you know they just

(33:39):
they win the catch point. A lot of those guys
don't pan out right. So if you find so, I
think a lot of teams look at it that way.

Speaker 1 (33:46):
But you know he is.

Speaker 6 (33:48):
The way he can win the catchpoint is impressive me.
And he's faster than T Higgins. T Higgins ran up
four to five to nine the year he was coming out.
And so it's not it's not that he wins with speed,
it's he wins down the field making these ridiculous catches
all over. The catch radius is outstanding. Nobody has more
catches at twenty plus yards the last two years than McMillan.
So he has done it at a high level. You know,

(34:10):
he's just he's a fun player. So I think if
you're and we have to remember too, like it's almost
like offensive line where you know, we can say offensive line,
but there's tackles, there's scards are sent when you can
say receivers.

Speaker 1 (34:21):
But there's different types of receivers.

Speaker 6 (34:22):
You know, teams might be looking for that true X,
where another team might be looking for, uh, maybe they
want the Z. They want more of a flank, or
they want a guy that's gonna stretch out the field,
and so these receivers offer different things. If a team
is looking for a ball winner that can fill that
kind of X roll, Team MAC is going to be
I think pretty appealing there in the mid first round.

Speaker 2 (34:43):
So really, then if you can build on that, because
like you said, because it's look, you've got got lad, Yeah,
you've got you know, it's clear I think that Q
is not an X, He's he's a Z. And if
you can so if you're not gonna get Team AC
in the first round, just kind of share with us,
maybe are there intriguing options. It's hard to find receivers
kind of late, it feels like, so are especially this draft, Yeah,

(35:05):
this draft, and especially at the acts, it's like it's
the one like it's it rarely happens. Is there is
there an ax that for what an injury low level
competition that you like in this draft that would be
later see.

Speaker 6 (35:15):
And it's funny because in most years, receivers just so loaded,
there's so many of these guys. This year it's kind
of the opposite. And the biggest reason is I think
we only had six underclassmen come out. Usually receivers loaded
with juniors that come out early. This year, it's just
not for whatever reason. So honestly, like I it is

(35:36):
tough for me to come up with a guy that
would say this is an X and hey, there's a
path to him starting and no, yeah, you can get
him in the third round. Like, there's just not many
of those guys this year, which which makes it tough
if if that you go into the draft with that
singular focus of finding that guy.

Speaker 1 (35:49):
It's why it seems like a lot of people are
trying to connect the dots to the Cole said Lovelin
to the Chargers, mischikin guy someone with a little juice,
sit tight end and no listen, we saw will Disley
this year, who's not really a pass catching tight end.
They almost forced him into being a pass catching tight end.
If Lovelin is even there, how would you describe his
game to a Chargers fan who maybe is not as familiar.

Speaker 6 (36:12):
Yeah, he's he's more of the Dalton Kincaid brought Bauers
type than a traditional inline guy you know, coming out
of Idaho, right, I mean he's a guy that was
off the radar as a recruit. Then he shows with
the Michigan and you know he's leading the team and receiving.

(36:33):
I mean he had the most receiving yards in a
National Championship game when Michigan won at all. So, Colston
Lovelin's a guy that speed and just the he's almost
a receiver, you know, because they used him like that
at Michigan, where he yeah he would be in the
wing sometimes, but most of the time he's in the slot.
Most of the times he's out wide making plays down
the field. So you can almost look at him as

(36:54):
a big receiver and use him that way. So I
wouldn't be surprised at all if the Chargers went if
they went in that direction, maybe just change the identity
of how you use a talent like that. We saw
a brockbow He's not brock Bowers, but he's at least
brock Bowers ish enough where you can say, all right,
like if we really commit to moving him around the
offense and finding those mismatches, he could be a true weapon.

(37:18):
They can weaponize a Colson Loveland, you know, he's I
think the question is fair about will he be there
or not? You know, Tyler Warren, will he be the
first tight end draft? I don't think there's a debate
about tight end one because it's not a debate, it's
a preference. You know that Tyler Warren and Colson Loveland
are different enough where either you know you want this
type of tight end, you want this type. You know
they're different. It's not necessarily this one's clearly better. Loveland's

(37:41):
got the more upside. Tyler Warren's ready to step in
tomorrow and you know, be more of a traditional tight
end for you. So, yeah, this is and it's a
deep tight end class. You know, after those two guys,
like I gave out six starter grades. You know, love
Elijah Royo in the second round, Mason Taylor is awesome.
Gunner Helm from Texas I think is going to be
a mismatch weapon in the NFL and just doesn't get

(38:02):
enough credit. And part of that is he just you know,
missed the Senior Bowl and but I think he should
test well here and he he belongs in the top
sixty five picks.

Speaker 2 (38:12):
The you know you mentioned it's funny because some people
say it's deep. Others they're not crazy about it because
of like Mason Taylor is he's a receiver, right, but
he's just he's a giant guy and he's incredibly athletic.
So what about like, you know what the Chargers do?
You know what they expect from their tight end right now?
You know they they could have really used a receiving
tight end last year. So based on that list of

(38:36):
you know, whether it's Fannin or Helm or a Royal
or Tatel, like, is there another one beyond Loveland or
Warren that you could see fitting what they expect from
a tight end? And that's you're going to have to
be able to block.

Speaker 6 (38:47):
Most of those guys that we just talked about, they're
they're you're drafted at least good enough. Yeah, you're drafting
them for what they do catching the football, right, But
like I think, like Gunner Helm for example, like tight
end is the second hardest position to learn and starks
Off just all the motions and all the different things
they ask from their tight ends. So I think how
smart he is and then how tough he is. His
blocking got better and better. It's still not why you're

(39:08):
drafting him, but I think he did enough as a
blocker where on the move or you know, lining up
in line, he.

Speaker 1 (39:14):
Can do it enough.

Speaker 6 (39:16):
I mean Mason Taylor, Yeah, another guy that again, yeah
you're drafting him because he's a he's a receiver, but
they especially as a stock blocker outside that's kind of
what he did best. Like, he does a really nice
job on some of those receiver screens, and you know
he can get busy as a blocker, and he has
the body. He's twenty years old, you know, he doesn't
turn twenty one until after the draft. So these guys

(39:37):
are and I don't it's debatable about how much plug
and play they are, you know, because they need more
development physically and then just you know, tight ends usually
unless you're Brock Bauers, is a tough position to play
as a rookie just because everything's asked for you. I
think Mason Taylor and Gunner Helm. Both those guys stand
out because they're smart and they're just useful. They find
ways to they're going to help your offense. And I

(39:58):
don't think a team's gonna regret drafting either of those
two guys.

Speaker 2 (40:01):
I didn't realize how long we kept him. Sorry about that, dud.
Did we blie you through your next interview on accident? There?

Speaker 7 (40:06):
No, I got ten minutes, so we're full.

Speaker 1 (40:08):
Good? All right, Well good, then let's go to the Uh,
let's go to Michigan. I'll give you another hour.

Speaker 2 (40:12):
Yeah, because look, it's a deep defensive tackle class. Yes,
and it's funny you mentioned gunner Helm. So I'm gon
this is gonna be kind of like a two part thing.
Just again we have you here, So we were gonna
pick the brain of the expert because I barely know
what I'm watching. So I'm watching the Michigan Texas game. Yeah,
and I kind of I'm watching Kenneth Grant, So this
is a two parter. One seems like a complete freak. Yeah,

(40:33):
I'm seeing they kick him outside at edge. He's three
hundred and forty pounds and he's rushing off the edge
on some of these obvious third downs.

Speaker 1 (40:38):
That's crazy.

Speaker 2 (40:38):
But then I also and you know how this goes,
like like, hey, I think the Texas center's pretty good.
This guy Jake Matrix is kind of like holding his
own against Mason Graham and he'll be here Kenneth Grant,
So give me both sides of that. Is is that
a potential you know, because I've seen him, you know,
kind of like six round grade fit for majors, Like
what's what's wrong with majors? Because that's the only I

(41:00):
saw of him and I thought he played it. And
then what about Kenneth Grant, this freakish player, and whether
or not he has a chance to last till twenty two?

Speaker 6 (41:07):
Yeah, I think, I mean late rounds, I think is
fair for majors. You know, he'll he'll be on the
ground more than you want, you know, but he is
a solid player and he held up well this year
for Texas. I Grant's He's gonna craz some buzz this
week as long as he tests, because he is. He
looks like a nose tackle, right, you know, he has
and he plays like all he'll two gaping techniques. He's

(41:28):
a boulder in the middle of that defensive line. But
he's got the quickness of a three technique where he
can really shoot gaps. He's not a Polish pass rusher
if he doesn't win with that first step. He's still
figuring out, all right, what's my counter?

Speaker 1 (41:40):
What's how do I do?

Speaker 6 (41:41):
You know, he's still figuring that part out. But he
just don't see many three hundred and forty pound guys
that can move like he can move. And it's a
big man league, and so it'll be interesting to see
where he is ultimately drafted. If it's top twenty, top
twenty five. You know, I just I have I think
there's enough team that you need an interchangeable defensive tackle.

(42:03):
Where you want to line him up on the nose,
he can do that. If you want to line him
up in the B gap, he can do that. He
can do all these different things. And oh yeah, he's
just gonna get better and better because he's still a
young player figuring things out. The traits really stand out
with him. So yeah, Kenneth Grant, I'll be surprised if
he doesn't create some buzz here in Indy.

Speaker 2 (42:20):
If you had, sorry, Chris, if you had Grant and Nolan.
And let's just say you feel like you feel you
feel comfortable with Nolan, you sat with them, you're good
with where where that whole part is if you had
both those I know they're totally different style players, but
how would you grade those two out?

Speaker 7 (42:35):
I mean, Nolan, I think at his peak, at his best,
he's a disruptor.

Speaker 6 (42:39):
You know, he can win in different ways, and so
I think that creating that interior disruption with a guy
with that quickness, I would go Nolan as being, you know,
the better prospect. You know, kind of like you alluded to,
There's things you need to figure out with him. Just
make sure you're comfortable that he's going to reach his
ceiling as an NFL player. Grant's a little bit more
projection in terms of a skill set and making sure

(43:01):
that he taps into all the different ways because he
is so specially so unique, but he still has to
learn how to use all those gifts in unison to win.
So I think Nolan's a little bit further along, more
of a realized player. So and just the disruption he
creates is impressive. So I would give Nolan the edge
between those two players.

Speaker 1 (43:20):
Datan last one for me. You know, the Chargers pick
twenty two, they have twenty six understricted free agents. Wow,
so they have a lot of work to do before
the draft. So I think a lot of what they
do in free agency may dictate, no doubt, what they
do in the first round. Given the depth of defensive tackle,
the fact that this quarterback class is not what it
was last year. And not holding you to this, but

(43:42):
as we talk right now, who do you think would
be the best player for the Chargers at twenty two
given the depth, given you know, the fact that there's
a lot of different directions that they could go to
get an impact player.

Speaker 7 (43:55):
I want to see a running backer tight in there.

Speaker 6 (43:57):
I do. I mean, I want to see them get
another explosive element to the offense. You know, we saw
what it looked like last year with Alad McConkey, and
you know, we know Justin Herbert and everything he can do.
Add someone else to that mix, whether it is you know,
Marion Hampton or one of those top two tight ends
between Warren and Loveland. I think any of those three players,

(44:19):
I'd throw even Caleb Johnson in the mix. Any of
those four players would be kind of like, all right,
I want to see that. I want to see what
that looks like. I'd be surprised. I think he can
make it to the teams, but like I'd be shocked
if he got past Denver, you know. So I I
think it's possible he gets past Dallas at twelve and
then maybe we start talking about, all right, who's going

(44:41):
to trade up to sixteen and get him that type
of thing.

Speaker 1 (44:44):
But someone compared to the Danian Thomlinson yesterday, that that's
my confident, is it? Really?

Speaker 7 (44:49):
Yeah?

Speaker 1 (44:49):
So there you go, and it's it's it's hard to
do that. When I mean that's what I mean.

Speaker 2 (44:54):
You never hear someone do that and they're like, I'm
telling you, man, the offensive line's not that good, and
this dude makes it happen.

Speaker 6 (45:01):
Well, I think the biggest reason I like the comp
is what they do is receiver. That's pass catchers, right.
LT was so good in that respect, and that's where
Gent doesn't get nearly enough love because his twenty twenty
three tape they used him a lot as a receiver,
but this past year they didn't. He is so good
catching the ball out of the backfield, and I think
that's what kind of something that separates him a little bit. Yeah, man,

(45:22):
he's not surprised. He's not gonna test. I don't like
his forty I don't think he's he's gonna be all that,
not that it really matters. He he enters the draft
as the top running back. He's gonna be the first
running back draft. I don't think he needs to necessarily
have a forty yard dash to prove anything.

Speaker 1 (45:35):
What's your cup for Hampton?

Speaker 6 (45:38):
I don't know if I had a great one that
I loved. I'm trying to think. I don't think I
had one that I loved. He just he's an all
around back. I mean, that's the thing you like about
him is you know speed, all right, check. You know
he's gonna run probably in four fours and he's gonna
be two hundred twenty pounds, so you know, he gives
you a physical physicality, but he also has speed that
if you give him a little bit of wiggle room,

(46:00):
he's gonna make something happen. So again, I'm emphasizing what
he did this year with no passing game, still rushing
for over fourteen hundred yards and being the impact player
that he was. That's something that is special and so yeah,
this week is only going to help him in terms
of where he stands, and who knows, maybe he doesn't
even make it to the charger of the first round.

Speaker 2 (46:20):
All right, last one overall, just to kind of build
on what you said at twenty two, we'll wrap up
with this. Yeah, Cooper, let's just say I was about
to say, Cooper, that's where I'm going with this. Lovelin's there,
Hampton's there, Tyler Booker's there. We know this team needs
in it. But because we've seen it the last two years,
Brian Branch slides, Cooper de Jean slides, and it's like, guys,

(46:42):
these are good freaking corners. I know you kind of
have this slot only projection and they're too short or whatever.
What about Baron and whether or not Baron ends up
sliding down that board because his measurables are going to
be too like your thoughts on him, and whether or
not you kind of see him in that saint through
that same lens as those two guys these last two drafts.

Speaker 6 (47:03):
Yeah, I struggle with Baron a little bit, just because
there's so much to like about his game, But you know,
he I I'm wondering what he's gonna run and his
arm is gonna be under thirty inches, you know, these
these things you worry about. Like I, I don't think
he's on the same level as Cooper Dejane myself, you know,
like DJ and I have talked about barely. I know

(47:24):
he loves Baron and I'm kind of on the opposite
end where I see him more in like the thirties.
Just if I'm gonna rank all my players. Uh, you
love the versatility, how smart he is. I mean he
can you can line him up outside, you can let
him in the slot.

Speaker 1 (47:35):
He could do it.

Speaker 6 (47:36):
But I think after you know, we see the forty time,
you see the measurables, it's like, all right, he might
be a slot only type of player, and that there's
nothing wrong with that. Slot is a nickel player is
a starter in today's NFL, right, So there's certainly value
in that. But I think it's more likely we see
him on the board at twenty two than off the
book at twenty two.

Speaker 7 (47:55):
That's just that.

Speaker 2 (47:55):
That's what's beautiful about this who thinks he's top ten.
There's other people that you know that have him in
the thirties.

Speaker 6 (48:01):
Yeah, and way all it takes is one team in
the top thirty two, right, And I mean it's especially
this draft.

Speaker 1 (48:06):
It feels like this.

Speaker 6 (48:07):
Draft there's more parody than usual, especially when we get
outside the top ten of just you know, we could
see a team's thirtieth player go at twelve and the opposite.
Like it's just there's gonna be so many split opinions
on this class, which from my perspective, you know, maybe
I should maybe I should hate it because I'm supposed
to know, like you know, but I find it fun,
Like the draft night is going to be a whole
lot of fun.

Speaker 1 (48:28):
Good deal, Dave Brugler, you're the best mate. You subscrib
Athletic and get the beasts, very geno beasts coming out
early April around. That's the goal, all right, Yeah, hurts
your subscription in, all right, keep it rolling. Here are
Chargers Weekly with Brett Coleman. Always good to visit with you,
my man. Uh this draft. Give me your thirty thousand
foot view. What sticks out?

Speaker 3 (48:49):
It's a meat and potatoes draft, you know, And I
know that's the word that keeps getting used over and
over and over again. If you want d line talent,
you want offensive line talent. This is the year for
you receiver. I would say it's thinner at the top,
but I think there's a wide and middle so you
can still find contributors at receiver. Obviously, tight ends super strong.

Speaker 1 (49:07):
You know.

Speaker 3 (49:07):
Quarterbacks not the best year, but luckily for the Chargers,
uh don't need one. So i'd say, like for the
Chargers specifically, like, this is the type of draft you
want because it's strong in the areas where I think
they need.

Speaker 2 (49:18):
So we've done a lot of it's great to have you, Brett,
because we've done a lot of offensive talk with a
lot of people that have joined us so far. You
know this thing forwards and backwards. So would love to
just kind of drill down on the defensive side of
the ball because I think you have the number one
scoring defense, Jesseman. Are people, Oh we're good, but we
need a tight end and a wide receiver or running
back in a teie offensive line. But let's get into
the defensive line and what for all of you know,

(49:39):
the celebration and the seventeen point six points per game, Like,
what do you think they need? Like what is something
that was missing on that defense last year?

Speaker 1 (49:47):
You know?

Speaker 3 (49:47):
I feel like when looking at this style of defense,
you know, that kind of Ravens Minner, Rex, Ryan Harbaugh
Tree overall that goes back thirty years to University of Cincinnati.
It's just been iterated and iterated and iterated. There's alway
has been a straw that stirs the drink on the interior,
the defensive line, everywhere, like everywhere this defense has been
And it's not that they don't have, you know, really

(50:07):
good players in the interior, but they just need that
guy like they need like a Kenneth Grant type where
we can put him at Truzier, we can put him
at shade, we could put him three, we could put
him at five. You know, he can do everything from
being the penetrator to set everybody up to being you know,
the contained rusher on the outside who's three hundred and
forty pounds and still can run four eight and track
down a quarterback in space. Like that kind of guy

(50:27):
that you can just do anything with and line him
up anywhere and ask him to play any type of role.
That type of player I think is both rare and
also very needed. Plus, you know, I talked to Kenneth
last month at Shrine Bowl and asked him specifically about
the charges because he knows so many people there, and
he explicitly said, like I would adore being a charger

(50:48):
because he loves Jesse, he loves Jim, he loves Ben.

Speaker 1 (50:50):
Herbert, Like that's where he wants to be, right. All
we hear about this class is that the defensive tackle
is just so loaded. Oh yeah, outside of the first round,
who are some guys that you identify as maybe being chargers?

Speaker 7 (51:05):
CJ.

Speaker 3 (51:05):
West from Indiana is one that I look to, you know,
a team leader for a very very good Indiana squad.
You know, again, he's another one of these rough and
tumble interior defensive linemen. It's gonna just hold the point
of attack on the inside and be the boulder that
everything rotates around. But he's also got some pass rush
to him as well, Like you can put him at
three technique and ask him to get after a little bit.

(51:27):
You know, as far as off the field goes, he's
going to shine in every single interview. He's a delightful human,
hard worker and somebody that I think you're gonna get
probably in like the third to fourth round, which tends
to be a sweet spot for IDL for.

Speaker 1 (51:42):
A lot of teams. So let's go two part.

Speaker 2 (51:44):
Then Kenneth grant chances that he makes it the twenty
two in your opinion, and then beyond that if it
is like because I'm with you, I just feel like
the defense needs like that a guy.

Speaker 1 (51:57):
Yes, just like the guy.

Speaker 2 (51:58):
And like I've asked probably everybody you know, I keep
asking about Walter Nolan, but I just go through this
and it's fun. It's like you said, I mean, it's
Walter Nolan, it's Derek Harmon. It's like it's Tyler Williams,
like shit, Like there's a lot of dudes. But so
let's start there. Do you think Kenneth makes it? And
do you think because of the off field stuff, Walter
Nolan makes it? And how would that fit? I think

(52:19):
it's possible. All of them, I think are going to
go in the same general range and it's going to depend,
you know, a team by team on what exactly they're
looking for. Derek Harmon, I think profiles is like a
very high end like five technique, like a Steffan Tuit type.

Speaker 3 (52:31):
Right, it can also play three technique on passing downs.
He actually used to be about three forty and then
he dropped down to three fifteen in Oregon and had
his best year. So this is him after losing twenty
five pounds and like really kind of finding his ideal
playing weight. But I think he can kind of be
like just a bigger version of Morgan Fox honestly play
that kind of role for them in a slightly different style.

(52:52):
And then you know, obviously you have Kenneth who's like
the do it all knows tackle extraordinary, and then you
got Walter Nolan, who I think is really more of
a three technique that can also play five technique, but
I really want him as a three technique, and some
teams are gonna prioritize that more than others, right because
some teams already have like that really explosive three technique

(53:12):
and they're really more looking for at Kenneth or they're
more looking for a harmon. So I think they're all
gonna go in the same range, but the order they
go is gonna heavily depend on which team is on
the board. For the Chargers, they're actually set up in
a way where they could take any of them and
be happy, which I think is advantageous for them. They're
just gonna let the board fall to them. But even
if somehow all three of them are off the board,

(53:34):
there's still twenty other defensive tackles they're gonna go between,
you know, rounds one and round five like they're gonna
get one.

Speaker 1 (53:41):
But I want to pivot back to the Chargers current
roster in last year's draft class and what Hortees was
able to do. Obviously we know about Alton mcaukeey, but
to get Cam Hart and tar Heep still in the
fifth round one of the guys that I think a
lot of people are looking forward to seeing this year
and we're expecting a pop this year, but just bad
injury luck as junior. How do you view Junior in

(54:02):
year two, knowing this system, having just tough luck with injury,
in the impact that he could make next to day
On Henley.

Speaker 3 (54:09):
I mean, once upon a time that was the same
story with Dayon right. In fact, I think this time
last year we were talking the same way about day On,
like if he just stays healthy, he's going to be amazing,
and he was. So you're looking at a potential young
linebacker duo of Dayon Henley and Junior Colson that could
be top three in the NFL by the end of
this season, if we think Junior is what we think
he is, which is for me, he was the best

(54:31):
Mike linebacker in the draft last year. Plus Dayon, who's
a phenom. I can't think of very many linebacker rooms.
I would love to have more than that, especially because
they're young, they're under contract control. We've got him for
the next two to three years. They both know the defense.
This defense is built around fast, aggressive linebackers like them, like,
I really really hope that Junior can stay healthy this year,

(54:53):
and obviously day On two, because I wouldn't be surprised
if both.

Speaker 2 (54:56):
Of them play at a Pro Bowl level. What about Edge,
You know, that's the big question, right, what do you
do with Joey at thirty six million? We had joe
On earlier in the Joe Ortie's earlier in the week,
and you know, sounded like, hey, we want him back.
He said he wants to retire a charger. Let's see
if we can make it work. So Khalil said, he's
not gonna retire, He's gonna come back. Feels like, you know,
I don't know if you want to uproot your family

(55:17):
for one more year kind of thing. So maybe he's
going to be back, But what do you do with
that room? And what's the draft look like? Because man,
it feels like there's gonna be a really good edge
sitting there at twenty two as well, and there's a.

Speaker 3 (55:27):
Million of those in this class too. Obviously Abdul Carter
is going to be long gone. I would say, as
far as he's gonna be there at twenty two, without
trading up, you're looking possibly at one of the Texas
A and M guys, like whether it's Schamar or Nick Courton.
I'd be totally fine with either one of them. And
they also are both bigger edges, which I tend to
favor because they have that first and second down value

(55:47):
to them compared to some of the lighter edges in
this class, where it's like, hey, if it's third and seven,
we're rocking and rolling first and ten not so much.
I think Harbot kind of feels the same way, like
he wants to be the most physical, exhausting team out
there for the other team, right, So I would say
one of them fits really well. Princely Umami Ellen from

(56:07):
Ole Miz is just a freak show. Andy's two sixty
five plus, so I think he crosses their thresholds. Suffice
to say, this is a class where they're not gonna
have to trade up. I think the Chargers are in
the perfect spot because there's the top tier, like the
true top tier players, there's two of them, and then
there's a pretty heavy drop off there. And I think

(56:30):
the difference between you know, pick twenty two and pick
fifty is not or rather the pick three and pick
twenty two is not super crazy compared to the pick
twenty two to pick fifty. So like the Chargers on
like the perfect spot to just catch whatever is falling
and probably get a player that is a similar grade
to somebody who's in the top ten.

Speaker 1 (56:52):
Bret depth a question market corner for the Chargers. You
know we talked about still in heart, but with Fulton
and Zion free agents, what does this class look like
in terms of corner.

Speaker 3 (57:04):
There's actually a lot of corners that I really really like,
and they're all very different stylistically. There's some guys who
I think profile really more as a nickel than anything else.
I think of Huzzy from North Carolina, who is one
of the better pure nickels in this class. I comp
him to like a Taran Johnson type. We got to
make sure the medicals are okay. He went down during
Shrinebole week. I think it might just be a bone bruise.

(57:26):
I gotta double check on that, at least that's what
he told me when I asked him about it. But like,
if you guys watch Huzzy, he is phenomenal, and then
you know you have your kind of big, rough and
tumble outside press corners like a Sewan Ravel who also
is coming off injury, but he is going to score
off the charts as far as character, leadership, cognition abilities

(57:47):
and oh, by the way, he's a big corner of
long arms who can really really cover. They might get
lucky and get that kind of injury discount on him
and have him be there at twenty two. He should
be ready for the season. If so, he's a starting
corner right now. And if you're packaging him with Tarheb
and all these guys, like that's a good secondary right there.

Speaker 2 (58:06):
Almost feels like you want to drop a vet into
that group, you know, if you're going to roll out
with cam Hart and Tarheb and I know, you know, look,
the market's the market is it?

Speaker 1 (58:15):
Is it?

Speaker 2 (58:16):
Davis is it read I don't know what I mean,
Like what kind of corners does does Jesse Minner? Is
d j Rey too small?

Speaker 1 (58:22):
Or is he oh did he just get cut? Does
request the trade or trade? So I forget the language.

Speaker 3 (58:30):
I almost I don't think they need to, And I
think it's because this staff is so good at identifying
corner talent and exactly what they want, Like as far
as you know, you talk about winds above replacement, uh,
you know, war per dollar that they're spending like they're
the best team in the league, as far as getting
really good corner play for no money, So I almost

(58:51):
want to leverage that advantage, especially because you know, coming
from the college level, like he's familiar with all these players,
he recruited them, he played against them. Uh, So I
would leverage that knowledge of these dbs and knowing what
they like and just getting the cheapest best corner room
in the NFL that's still really really good, and then
using those dollars for something else, like say, if T

(59:11):
Higgins happens to come free and he doesn't get tagged, like,
I'd almost rather spend the money on that, right.

Speaker 1 (59:17):
Other free agent defensive players that you think could be
potential fits for what Jesse Witzer likes to do.

Speaker 2 (59:24):
Ooh, off the top of my head with the big tackles,
I mean, which you Chase Williams, which you would. I
don't know what that number is going to be.

Speaker 3 (59:32):
I'm I'm hesitant about it because you know, I was
just doing a study this past week about and I
was looking at every single uh starting roster for every
Super Bowl winning team for the last fifteen years, right,
and what percentage of those rosters or homegrown draft picks
versus trade targets versus free agent signings. And then I also,

(59:54):
you know, me and my research assistant then expanded that to, okay,
what about the top five teams in the draft that year,
like the worst team in the NFL, what's the difference
in the percentages in terms of how they acquired talent,
what round it was, you know, how expensive they were,
everything like that. And there was a remarkable difference between
the Super Bowl winning teams and the bottom five teams
in terms of percentage of their roster that is free

(01:00:15):
agent signings. And I think teams that have typically on average,
one to two more free agents starting for them than
homegrown draft picks tend to be worse because their dollar
is not going as far. It's usually you're trying to
chase a hole that you created by missing on a
draft pick. So you're spending more for a player who
probably really isn't the magic bullet. And how many players

(01:00:39):
are actually getting to the market that are the magic bullet.
You always have to ask yourself, why is he available
if he's that good with all the stuff that you
can do to manage the cap, you know. I guess
that's why I bring up Milton Williams right because it's like, well,
he's at the market because they've got George Davis at
Jalen cart like, they do such a good job of
drafting that it's like, yeah, we're just not going to
pay you way to go, you're off. But these guys

(01:01:01):
are free because they're you know.

Speaker 2 (01:01:02):
So that's kind of the one that I was looking at, like, well,
it almost lines up that maybe he's not hating the
market because he's you know, because they don't volume. It's
just how he drafts all that depth on that line. Man,
he's one of the rare instances him and trace do
you like him? I really do like him.

Speaker 3 (01:01:19):
It's just he happens to be on a team where
they already have a bunch of guys, and especially they're
starting to get towards the point where they're going to
be stacking some pretty serious cap hits here. So again
they're I think for them, they're okay with okay, we
just want the third round Comppick and because that's where
they took him in the first place, they got him
in the third round. So they trust themselves, especially in

(01:01:41):
this kind of defensive line class, they trust themselves to
get another Milton Williams, like somebody who can contribute for
them and then you know, just kind of keep doing
that comp pick cycle like what we see Baltimore do.
So he's kind of a rare instance. But for the
vast majority of like top dollar free agents, you know,
like at like Javon Hargrave, Jevon Hargrave have been worth it.
For the forty nine ers, like you always have to
ask yourself, why are they available.

Speaker 1 (01:02:03):
If they're that good?

Speaker 2 (01:02:03):
Yeah, yeah, Trey Smith, Milton Williams like very rare, very rare.
So so let's do the free agent thing. Then, I
know we said we're going to focus on the events,
but you know, let's have some fun with the offensive side, Like,
do you do you look at Hey, let's make sure
we get to the draft and we don't feel like
we've got to take guard here, We've got to take
tight end here.

Speaker 1 (01:02:23):
We've got it.

Speaker 2 (01:02:24):
Like when you look at this free agent class, do
you feel like there's good enough players where you can
you know what, Let's put Fries here and that way
we don't have to freak out at twenty two. Or
let's put Dolmen or and I don't know if he's
even the right center or Kelly like of those positions.
Is there anything out there that you like that will
free geo Orti's and his staff up that just take

(01:02:44):
the best guy that's sitting there at twenty two, and
it could be either side.

Speaker 1 (01:02:47):
Of the ball.

Speaker 3 (01:02:48):
I mean, you could talk me into dolmen right, And
I think it really comes down to it's not necessarily
like using free agency to turn something into his strength.

Speaker 1 (01:02:56):
It's just to show up a weakness. Right.

Speaker 3 (01:02:58):
You're like, you're trying to eliminate desperation. That's the whole
point of what we do in March. It's not to
go out there and spend the most money to build
a super team because you're never going to be able
to do that in free agency.

Speaker 1 (01:03:08):
The data bears that out.

Speaker 3 (01:03:09):
It's more so, can we put ourselves in position where
to your point, if we'll get to twenty two, It's like,
we would love to take Tyler Booker here, but we
don't want to have to be in a position where
we have to take Tyler Booker if there's a player
that has a higher grade that falls down, and like
we're just killing ourselves because it's like, oh, we normally
would take that other guy, but now we got to
take Booker because we don't have a lot of guard

(01:03:31):
Like that's what you use march for is to free
yourself up to have that that flexibility.

Speaker 1 (01:03:38):
In April, Bret, last one for me, who are you
most looking forward to seeing this week and who can
maybe help themselves the most before the draft.

Speaker 3 (01:03:47):
I'm really interested to look at the linebackers because this
is a sneaky, fun linebacker class. I know for the
Chargers specifically, like they don't necessarily need a top one,
but like Carson Sweaestians love them, brill He's so good,
and I look at like the the like the Sam
linebacker types, you know, who are both going to be

(01:04:07):
off ball and on ball linebackers like a Jalen Walker
Jeeha Campbell from Alabama's guys are top fifteen guys, right,
I mean it's Andrew Vankinkle wearing a jet pack Like
that's my comp right, Like they're just insane. I love
seeing how they move. I really want to get some
clarity at receiver because, like I said, there's not a
whole lot of top tier receivers. In fact, there's probably one,

(01:04:30):
but I want to see who stands out in the
wide middle. Like I think a sneaky pick for the
charges of receiver would be a Mecca Buca, Like, and
I know he's he doesn't profiles like the X receiver
that ever thinks they need. But at the same time,
you don't necessarily want to pass on a player who
I think is going to test that well and is

(01:04:50):
that productive and is that good in the room, just
because I was like, oh, well he's not six three
two twenty and like that's the profile we need. It's like, well,
what if he's just the better receiver, Like we can
figure it out, right, So I think he's somebody that
I'm really looking forward to watching, just to see, just
to just to get clarity on like is he that good?

Speaker 2 (01:05:06):
I think that's what some people have been saying, Like
that's how maybe TMAC could slide to the Chargers, that
Abuca could end up being the number one receiver. You
don't think that he and lad kind of replicate too
much or that they would compliment each other.

Speaker 3 (01:05:19):
I look at it this way. If you're looking at
the percentage of like press man coverage that's played in
any given season, a man coverage period is only about
twenty five percent on average across the NFL, right, and
true pressman coverage is far lower than that. And so
how often is a smaller receiver on the outside truly

(01:05:41):
going to like have to go up like not just
against a press corner, but a good press corner. Right,
It's like, how many snaps per year? Is that actually
going to be a problem for the matchup wise? If
that's the only thing that really gives him trouble if
you're putting a Buka at X, It's like, Okay, we
face that, what twenty snaps a year, Like it's not
that big a deal compared to all the production that

(01:06:01):
we know we can get because of how good he
is in terms of tracking the deep ball, in terms
of catching over the middle after the catch, Like he's
obviously really fast, great route runner, so it's like it's
almost like the Lad mccacky thing. It's like, Okay, Lad's
not an X. Lad was still one of the most
productive rookie seasons ever at receiver. It didn't seem to

(01:06:21):
hurt him that much because at the end of the day,
seventy five percent of all coverages played are going to
be his own coverage where you're not really getting manhandled
by dbs. It's more so just about finding space, being
in rhythm of the quarterback, understanding the structure of a
defense pre snap and post snap, and getting to the
right spot. If you have receivers that are really good
at doing that, then they're probably gonna be really productive.

(01:06:42):
And I think he's one of them.

Speaker 2 (01:06:42):
All right, last one real quick, because everybody's had a
different answer, which has been really fun. I think it
speaks to the group. And look, I mean you could
you could say Ashton Genty and you can say, you know,
Mari and hamp but like who's your favorite back? Like
if you just think value plus talent, like I you know,
let me hit you the one basial tootin Virginia Trixat.
He just fly like four three five minimum. To me,

(01:07:04):
he's gonna jump thirty nine inches plus where's he gonna
go because of medical which I mean, I'm not saying
he has a medical issue, but I know he's getting
get checked out because you know, he's wearing the big
knee brace during the year, and then he took it
off and put up like two hundred next week, right,
So I know he's gonna get checked for medical this week.

Speaker 1 (01:07:22):
If that's all good to go, he's a Day two pick.

Speaker 3 (01:07:24):
And even then he's still I don't think slips past
the fourth round. If we're looking for like a third
running back as a rookie that has just unbelievable juice,
almost like a Justice Hill once upon a time, right
where it's like, okay, we can give him maybe five
to eight touches in a game, and there's a decent
shot one it goes sixty seventy as a receiver or
runner like this is a kid who put up historic

(01:07:46):
track times as a high school or in New Jersey's
two hundred five pounds, it's gonna run sub four three
five like that's rare. Yeah, So as far as third
running backs go, yeah, I want that to stay.

Speaker 2 (01:07:55):
So, you know, one of the things people always I
know I said last thing, but I just want to
follow up with this because I think he's they run
zone right like, they run almost no gap, right, So
is that a big deal for you when you're like, hey,
I've seen it, and here with the Chargers it's duo
and gap and power, Like, is that a big deal
to you when you see that?

Speaker 3 (01:08:12):
Not necessarily because I look at this running scheme and
how versatile it is, like they actually they majored less
in that than I thought, Like they still did have
changeups with outside zone like they would still you know,
try to do perimeter runs with like crack toss and
everything like that. And even if you know, you get
him into the game and everybody is just thinking, Okay,

(01:08:34):
here's gonna be a wide zone or a toss player
or something like that. Same thing happens when you're playing
against San Francisco. Same thing happens you're playing against Miami.

Speaker 1 (01:08:42):
It doesn't mean it's not effective, right right, It's just you.

Speaker 3 (01:08:44):
Still need the running back that has that kind of
juice that can make a defense before the ball is
even snapped, be aware that, hey, we can't let him
get to the front side, Like if we have to overpursue,
we'll over pursue and we'll trust our backside guys to
clean it up. And that point the Chargers are thinking, Okay,
if the thread of his speed is so great that

(01:09:05):
we know they have to over pursue, now we can
try to come up with ways to really just slam
open that backside cutback lane and trust him that he's
going to hit it and get us, you know, fifteen
twenty yards. So you know, just because they know you're
running white zone doesn't mean they can stop it.

Speaker 1 (01:09:20):
Right Brick Coleman, we appreciate you. Man a lot of
names to watch for Chargers fans this week at the
combine in the draft. Dude, can they get it for
your time? Nig you have me here in this tradition. So, buddy,
that was episode three. You're riding solo for episode for
my friend. Yeah, you're you're catching a flight home. So tomorrow,
one more day we'll end up with as scheduled. Right now.

Speaker 2 (01:09:40):
Mike Tannenbaum, the former general manager of the Jets, I
worked with him for a while over there at NFL
networking out does it for ESPN. We'll also have our
friend Bruce Feldman does the Freaks List every year. Always
love catching up with Bruce over at the Athletic and
obviously covers college football for Fox as well, so he's
doing a game a week. He's got a ton of
intel on all these players and and then we'll wrap
it up with our friend Matt Miller over to ESPN,

(01:10:02):
so again someone that's putting together a seven round mock
draft and all that sort of stuff. So we'll wrap
it up on Friday with three more great guests. It's
been a heck of a week and certainly looking forward
to it.

Speaker 1 (01:10:13):
It's been a generational run for Chargers Weekly here at
the Combine, getting started for draft season. For Buddy, I'm Chris.
This has been Charges Weekly. See you tomorrow.

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