January 11, 2025 • 52 mins
In this episode of Dawgs Only, host Rodney McLeod Jr. discusses retirement with Special Teams Coordinator Bubba Ventrone, Running Backs coach Duce Staley and three-time Super Bowl champion Jerod Cherry. #DawgsOnlyPodcast
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
What's going on? Everybody? This is O G Rob back
for another episode of Dolls Only, and we have some
vari usesteemed guests uh here with us today. Uh former
players now wearing headsets. Let's hear about their journey. What's
going on with fellas?
Speaker 2 (00:20):
Man?
Speaker 3 (00:21):
Going on?
Speaker 1 (00:22):
Man? Welcome to the Dolls Only Podcast. Normally we have
players in this in these seas, but you know, we
got some former players. Uh, so we felt like this
was very fitting uh to bring you guys here today.
Speaker 4 (00:35):
Let me say we play No I mean no, no, no, no.
Speaker 1 (00:40):
I was trying to just give you your flowers, you
know what I'm saying, Like I think we all, we
all are like inspiring to like get to these the
places that you guys have reached obviously, and it's on
and privilege for me, you know, to be amongst a
group of decorated men like yourself. Uh you know that's
given everything to the game and every single way Bubba undrafted.
Speaker 3 (01:04):
Right yep, same as you.
Speaker 1 (01:06):
Yeah, yeah, I know I know that life. What would
you do eight eight years?
Speaker 3 (01:10):
Yeah, so I was.
Speaker 5 (01:12):
I did a total of ten, total of ten, but
my earlier in my career I was practice squad.
Speaker 3 (01:17):
Thankfully, I have, those seasons are accrued so that they're
my atension.
Speaker 5 (01:21):
Yeah yeah, yeah, but ten total seasons, so ten and
really eleven training camps because I ended up going to
NFL Europe after my rookie year, So eleven training camps,
yeah or not giving man.
Speaker 1 (01:34):
Yeah much respect? What three times captain so I was.
Speaker 3 (01:39):
Yeah, I was a captain here.
Speaker 5 (01:40):
Uh and then in out in San Francisco they named
me captain in the playoffs, which was which was pretty
cool for the playoff game and uh wildcard game at
at Green Bay. Yeah yeah, in a really cold game.
It was like minus fifteen.
Speaker 3 (01:54):
Yeah, one of the only games I've ever worn sleeves.
Speaker 1 (01:58):
Yeah.
Speaker 6 (01:59):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (02:00):
We got obviously do Stanley ten years, third round draft pick,
spent some time only what only two stops? Two stops
and Pittsburgh that's it.
Speaker 4 (02:12):
Yeah yeah man, then lead, then lead to State. Yeah
yeah right right, so yeah, man, just ten years of fun,
ten years of pain, and I, as I look back
over it, man wouldn't traded for nothing. Got two super
Bowl rings, come on, able to definitely do something that
(02:33):
I love right now. As far as coaching, being able
to live through these guys vicariously, it's awesome.
Speaker 6 (02:41):
So a little small piece of the journey.
Speaker 1 (02:43):
Yeah, yeah, got to put that two time champion on there.
I'm jealous only got one.
Speaker 6 (02:48):
We got one together?
Speaker 1 (02:49):
Yeah, we did, you know, we did.
Speaker 5 (02:52):
I was on the I was on the opposite side
of that one, which is not which is not so
that one, that one.
Speaker 1 (02:59):
Hurts my bad. You thought I was guaranteed too. We're
not going to say bad about that.
Speaker 6 (03:04):
Take that bad right, race that you're right, you're right,
you're right.
Speaker 1 (03:09):
Never apologize for compete. Shout out to GD for that one,
and that it leaves me. Then we got cherry three times, Yes, sir,
super Bowl champ. Drafted third round, How does it feel?
Speaker 6 (03:24):
Well?
Speaker 2 (03:24):
Man, First and foremost, thank you for being having me here.
And was a teammate of Duces in Philadelphia. So I
had three stops, well technically four. It was drafted by
New Orleans Saints second round. Went from there four years
to Oakland for a training camp, and I went back
home in the Bay Area. I found out that I
(03:45):
wasn't welcome back home. So I get let go by
the Raiders and I get picked up with Philly, spent
some time with Douce there. We make it to the playoffs,
and I was convinced that I finished my career in Philly.
Powers that be said otherwise, get picked up by the
New England Patriots in right place, right time, and while
I was there, we were fortunate enough to win three
(04:05):
Super Bowls. So, man, it's been a great journey. Football
has been great to all of us. We can all
attest to that. And you're in a great spot man,
because you're in the place right now where the game
kicked me out. I wasn't ready to be finished with
the game. I got nine years in. You're walking out
on your own terms. And most people, as I've told
you that before, don't have that luxury. They don't have
(04:26):
the opportunity to do that. They find themselves still want
to grass and hold on. But you're in a spot
to where you can walk away. Man, that's a heck
of accomplishment, especially when you consider undrafted and what you've
accomplished in the course of your life. So, man, you're
on the right track just by which whatever you've done
to be in the NFL for thirteen years, if you
take that to your life after football.
Speaker 1 (04:47):
You're gonna be a okay in my opinion, Yeah, I
appreciate that.
Speaker 5 (04:50):
After watching I got to chime in, after watching your
film from your rookie year, I cannot believe you're undrafted.
It is crazy to me that you're running flying around
that making place. Yeah, like fast, tough, good tackler.
Speaker 1 (05:05):
You know how I go. It gave me. They gave
me the the the hybrid, Like we don't know if
you're fast enough to play corner in this league, but
then we don't know if you're big enough to be
a safety. We probably maybe see you as a nickel,
but the verdict is still out. So it was a
lot of uncertainty. And of course, you know, I think
(05:27):
everything worked out the way it was supposed to, because
who knows. If I entered the league in one of
you guys position drafted, maybe that would have affected my
whole mindset. You know what I'm saying. I don't know,
but I felt like coming in undrafted like yourself, that
really just gave me the identity that I needed. That
I that's never left me from my entire existence in
(05:49):
this league. It's like, man, every day you gotta earn it.
No no, no, tomorrow, Like tomorrow is not promising.
Speaker 3 (05:55):
There's not a better example of that.
Speaker 1 (05:58):
You feel me like, that's how you got to get
down if you want to last as long as a
lot of us have.
Speaker 2 (06:04):
Well, Rodnie, you strike me as a guy that make
a really good coach, and I'm interested to do and
Bubba and how you guys made a determination because be
honest with you, when I got done, I was disenchanted
with coaches. I was like, I don't like majority of
them and don't seem to have the best interest on
the pro level of the players. Seems just to be
about politics and things of that nature. But you guys
(06:26):
obviously don't represent that. And you guys have made that
decision that hey, you want to be in this field,
and I like to think it's changed a lot too,
because I was used to guys sleeping in the facilities
and doing things of that nature, and you always got
to pay a price and work hard. But you would
strike me as a person that would also be really
a good coach, because you have that element about you
in which I feel you could teach.
Speaker 4 (06:48):
And he showed that on the field, you know, just
watching the DBS follow him and being able to watch
him on the field, be able to watch him in
the classroom and just listen to how he talks to
him and all engaged they are.
Speaker 6 (07:01):
I mean, you definitely can coach.
Speaker 4 (07:04):
Now if you want to get that his chair on
over there with us, stay right there, you know, come
on over.
Speaker 1 (07:10):
Yeah, that's I mean, give us, give us the truth,
like give us a quick snippet of like what it's
like to be a coach in the NFL, and like
you guys have now been coaching double digits now.
Speaker 5 (07:23):
I would say this first off, like I have the
privilege of you know, I had Rod for three years,
one in India and obviously two here in Cleveland, and
I got to coach him, you know directly.
Speaker 3 (07:35):
He was you know, he played, He played for me.
Speaker 5 (07:37):
He was a personal protector, which for me is the
most important communicator amongst your unit. And then I was
obviously a special teams coordinator, so I had the ability
to go around and watch the offensive and defensive walkthroughs
and the way that he approaches the game.
Speaker 3 (07:54):
His ability to I would say, pass.
Speaker 5 (07:57):
Along information to the younger player on just the extreme
details of every play, everything that goes into it was
admirable for me to be able to watch that. And
he has like every trait characteristic that you would ever
want in a leader, and that would obviously translate into coaching.
(08:18):
I mean, you'd be an incredible coach he decided to do.
Speaker 6 (08:21):
So, Yeah, I don't know if.
Speaker 5 (08:22):
You want to go down that path, but yeah, it
would be a really good coach.
Speaker 1 (08:26):
Yeah, it's in Uh there's conversations around it, but you know, nothing,
nothing concered. I think for me, it's all about time,
as we all know, like you get a game, you
know what I'm saying, So much it's hard to put
a price on time. And I think right now, you
know where I'm at is trying to get back those
(08:50):
like moments that I've lost, you know within my family. Uh,
just those those memories that are that are like timeless. Yeah,
and so I think that is what's most sacred to
me is my time right now. And that's a tough
commitment because like we all do, like we're gonna give, Yeah,
(09:11):
we're gonna give a hundred and ten percent of everything
that we you know what I'm saying, we enter into.
So and even now, like you guys are responsible for
helping us be the best version of ourselves. That's your responsibility. Now,
Like as you hold that that clicker for sure.
Speaker 4 (09:29):
You know, there's how many chances throughout life, and just
talking to everybody in this room, everybody's out listening. How
many times you get a chance to do something you love? Right,
you know, and all of us sitting here right now.
We love the game of football. We love everything that came,
(09:49):
you know, that came along with the game of football.
Speaker 6 (09:52):
For me, there was an extension.
Speaker 4 (09:55):
So the love part of it is embedded inside of
me is you know, I'm driven my passion inferior when
it comes to this game with football.
Speaker 6 (10:04):
So that was me playing.
Speaker 4 (10:06):
Then all of a sudden, when I retired and had
to step away, it was something that was pulling me back.
That was that passion, that love, that fury that was
still inside of me to be a part of it.
Speaker 3 (10:17):
How many and how many years were your way?
Speaker 6 (10:20):
Three?
Speaker 4 (10:20):
So I retired in two thousand and seven, all right,
came back in twenty ten. But along the way, I'm
doing TV. I'm doing a little bit of TV, doing
a little bit of radio. Being able to walk out
there on the field, you know, at the University of
South Carolina, I see those guys run.
Speaker 6 (10:36):
Around a little bit. Being able to talk to other guys.
Speaker 4 (10:40):
That I played with that were coaching at the time,
and I was like you In the beginning, I was like, man,
you know what, Man, I don't know if this coach
is for me because of the horror stories you hear
about sleeping in you know, the office. Yeah, so I
kind of stayed away from it. Then all of a sudden,
I get a phone call from Andy Reid and he
(11:00):
called me. He said, what are you doing now? I
was like, man, coach, you know, I looked at my phone.
I was like, man, I was still you know, I'm
still in shock because anytime you get a phone call
from your head coach, it was something you did wrong.
Speaker 6 (11:12):
I'm still think I'm playing the game at the time,
you know.
Speaker 4 (11:14):
But I was like, man, what's up, coach. He was like, hey, man,
I always thought that you would coach or be a coach.
Whyon't you come back and through the minority coaching program
and just just see what you you know, see if.
Speaker 6 (11:27):
You like it or not.
Speaker 4 (11:28):
And I was like, all right, coach, so boom I
get there. He DAPs me up. Man, give me this
big old Barry hug. He was like, hey, I got
a project for you. I remember your project is McCoy m.
So I'm walking through the door. I was like, man,
what do you mean. You know Sean McCory is my project.
He was like, yeah, that's your project. So make a
long story short. We went back and forth, we battled
(11:49):
a little bit, and but that fire came came back
and it hit me right then and there.
Speaker 6 (11:57):
It was like, this is what I want to do.
I want to be a part of it.
Speaker 4 (12:01):
And I remember leaving Lehigh's.
Speaker 6 (12:05):
Hottest hell up there right.
Speaker 4 (12:07):
I remember leaving, grabbing my bag, say coach man, I
really love this man, this is awesome. I'll, you know,
give you a call back. He was like, it's no
need to leave where you're going. And it's been fifteen
years later, you go.
Speaker 2 (12:20):
Now. I had a situation where once I retired, I
was like, what's my identity?
Speaker 6 (12:28):
Who am I?
Speaker 2 (12:29):
What am I?
Speaker 6 (12:31):
Did?
Speaker 2 (12:31):
You guys go through that part of it where you
were trying to figure out with football not being the
main thing that you're doing anymore, to how you're going
to deal with that and cope with that, because that's
one of the things that you will be more unlikely encounter.
Speaker 6 (12:45):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (12:45):
I've heard a lot of Yeah, those those stories about
this identity crisis, financial hardship, I mean marriage right, relationship struggle,
and the mental health you know side of it, like
where guys can go on a deeper depression, drug or
be whatever it might be. Those things are like are real?
Speaker 6 (13:06):
So great? Yeah, great question for me.
Speaker 5 (13:09):
I started coaching literally a month after I retired, and
he went right in unfortunately for.
Speaker 3 (13:18):
Me, Like, I'm glad that.
Speaker 5 (13:19):
I'm glad I did it when I did it, because
I don't know what would have happened if I would
have taken a break, if I would have been removed
from the game for that long. I always knew that
I wanted to be involved in football in some capacity,
but you know, I had an opportunity to go back
to New England and be the assistant there, and honestly,
I wouldn't be able to do my job the way
that I do it if I wouldn't have been mentored
(13:40):
there by Bill, you know, and learned from him, Yeah,
the greatest coach of all time in my opinion, like
and learn.
Speaker 3 (13:47):
How to really do it.
Speaker 5 (13:49):
But I feel like that really that really groomed me
as as a coach today. Like that's my number one thing,
is I love being able to and I've told you
this a number of times, Like my favorite thing to
do and football as a coach is be able to
see the development of your players over the course of
the season and over the course of their careers and
see them, you know, succeed. Guys like Zaire Franklin it
(14:12):
was our special teams captain for three years, pay Pro
Bowl linebacker this year and then yeah, like that, Like
I texted him the other day, like I'm a proud
coach to be able to.
Speaker 3 (14:21):
Have guys like that, see those guys succeed and do
well and you know, and be great people too.
Speaker 4 (14:28):
So let's go to feed the competitiveness that you have.
Like that's what you got to find out, like as
soon as you walk away, because you've been competing for
a very long time, you know, ever since literal League,
middle school, high school. I mean, of course you played
thirteen years in league, but that was the build up,
the middle league, the middle school, high school. So now
(14:49):
when you walk away, you walk out of the door,
how are you going to get that juice? How are
you going to get that feeling of competing on Sunday?
Speaker 6 (14:58):
It won't be Domino's.
Speaker 4 (14:59):
It won't be checking, but you don't. I had to
find out and that's what led me to coaching.
Speaker 2 (15:11):
Don't do rec basketball.
Speaker 1 (15:14):
Fights, No, six, am, who session is?
Speaker 2 (15:19):
I mean, it is a way, It's an outlet. I
actually took up martial arts as a way of dealing
with the physical part of it. But I would say,
if you do the rec basketball piece, oh he's a
former professional athlete, Guys gonna try to measure themselves against
you from a physical standpoint, and it becomes way more competitive.
Needs of these So I say it just but at
(15:40):
the same time there's some truth to it. Just find
somewhere you can get that outlet. But the main thing
that I did learn from my experience was that one
football can't be identity in the first place. I don't
know your faith and how you pursue that, but for
me that became an important part of it helped me
get that identity. So it wasn't this great depression that
didn't last too long. I dealt with it, but didn't
(16:03):
last long because I had something else to turn to
for my identity. So I think a lot of guys
don't have that, and they end up being in that
piece to where Okay, I've hit my high point in
life in my twenty late twenties or early thirties, and
there's still another forty fifty years of life expectancy left
and we don't want to be in that space. But again,
(16:23):
as I said earlier, if you continue to do what
you did and what you learned from this game, which
you picked up from these gentlemen, and apply it to
your life after football or with football, be to the
coach or broadcast or anything of that nature, you're gonna
be okay. But the key part to it all this
is this can't be everything. You have to have other avenues.
And I think you've already said that with how you
want to get.
Speaker 4 (16:43):
Time back with your family my piece and get taped
up to go to the wreck.
Speaker 1 (16:50):
Nah, I've like, honestly, I've always tried to like stay
in that that mindset of not allowing myself to so
be defined by like the helmet, and in the off
season like putting myselves in different rooms, different spaces so
that it may make the transition whenever that is just
(17:13):
a little easier. Like I know there's going to be struggle,
but I think the biggest thing that I always hear
is like it's an identity crisis and it's honestly idle time,
Like where your time has been kind of structured for
(17:35):
you for so long that you've gotten into that routine
of Okay, I'm really just on my own for like
four months out of the year whatever that might be right,
and you can find things to do in that four months.
But when you talk about an entire year that like
outside looking in, people aren't necessarily calling you or whatever,
(17:59):
asking you, like putting you on this you know what
I'm saying, on this pedestal that you've been on for
so long, Like where do you find yourself in the world?
Like what? And like what are you doing? And I
think that that in itself has you know, a great
effect on people. So like for you, guys, because you
had a gap, you had a gap in between you
(18:21):
retiring and like you finding your next your next job, right,
and obviously you said it was well three years til
you got back into coaching. Bubby, You're completely different. You're crazy.
You're crazy. A month later, but like what did you guys,
Like how did you manage your time? Like was that
(18:43):
was that an issue for you guys? And how did
you establish maybe a new routine for what existed, you
know now as you moved on to like the next act.
Speaker 2 (18:54):
Well, I was aware that the timers approaching, so I
did start making moves for Okay, what's my next step.
I was in the world of finance, so I started
studying it on that and just doing little things to
just give myself familiar with what that will represent. So
I would use that. But it is something to be
said about having a complete full day yourself and what
(19:15):
you're gonna do with it. I mean, I would still
work out, I would still train as if I was
going to get that phone call still, but the phone
call is never came. But I was doing other things
like just preparing myself for that next step in the
career with that idle time, because that's the thing. You're
gonna explore this world and there's so many things out
there for you to do that's just offered to you,
as Deuce just said it earlier. Being able to find
(19:36):
what identify and what you love and what you're passionate about,
and being in a space and place to where you
can do that where it's not just okay, I need
to notify to.
Speaker 6 (19:45):
Survive, but I can really.
Speaker 2 (19:48):
Devote myself to something that I'm passionate about and I
feel is gonna have impact on my life and others
as well. And if you can identify that, then that
time that you are feeling just being ilely wasted, it
won't be if you can identify that.
Speaker 4 (20:02):
Yeah, I was aware that retiring was approaching, still wasn't ready.
Speaker 6 (20:07):
So you know, we're young and you talk about retiring.
Speaker 4 (20:14):
You heard your parents talk about it, and they were,
you know, late into their seventies eighties, and here you are,
like mid thirties and you're talking about retiring and you're
still young. And you know, maybe it's because of an injury,
or maybe because you played a long time. It's just,
you know, the game is kind of passed you by.
No matter what the reason is. There's no book out
(20:34):
there that says you're ready to retire at this age.
Speaker 6 (20:37):
Now.
Speaker 4 (20:37):
As you talk to your parents and elders or whoever,
you know, they kind of follow when I'm seventy five,
when we do this, or when I'm eight, you know,
if they live that long or whatever, I'm sixty five,
I want to do this. It's kind of a little
book out there, little navigation for them, but not at
in thirty or thirty two or thirty three. So that's
one of the things, man, that was kind of tough
for me, just saying okay, kind of talked about it earlier,
(21:01):
like what's next for me, and then all of a
sudden when I fell in love with coaching all over again,
being able to live vicariously through my players, being able
to go out there, and like Bubba was saying, watch
these guys grow. I'm butttered my teaching. I'm under like
this is Deuce is putting him out on the field.
Dukes believes in him. Dude said that this guy should
(21:23):
be number one. And now you're watching them and you know,
seeing that guy grow, and it feels so good and
right now, like that's every day I walk through these doors.
Speaker 6 (21:34):
Every day I walk through these doors, they do something
I love.
Speaker 4 (21:37):
There's no way that I'm not going to show how
much I love them or how much I love it.
Speaker 6 (21:43):
And you know that from me being on the field,
you know that I can't. That's just me.
Speaker 4 (21:47):
That's the juice, and that's the fire that's in my gut. So,
like you talked about for yourself, the reason you retired
was that not on your Was that not your call? Well,
my knee was bothering me at the time. I had
(22:07):
a couple more phone calls that you know was coming
through it. When I got to let go from Pittsburgh
and then you know, I sat down for a second.
I was like, man, my right knee is killing me.
I had to list frank in my right foot from
earlier in my career. But it started bothering me a
little bit, and I said, no matter what, I'm not
ready to go somewhere else and give my all, no
(22:29):
matter if the.
Speaker 6 (22:29):
Phone call come through.
Speaker 4 (22:30):
I wasn't one of those ones that you know, would
take the phone call and was signed because I could
and then be let go a couple of weeks later.
Speaker 6 (22:38):
This this shit means a lot. Yeah.
Speaker 4 (22:41):
So I didn't want to go there and not be ready.
And that was one of my fears too. I did
not want to show up and not be ready. Training
camps always, you know, And that's one thing to do, Subchet,
that's one thing for you. Don't get it twisted at all.
You're gonna wake up July thirty first, about six am.
Speaker 1 (23:01):
You're gonna do that for about two weeks.
Speaker 4 (23:09):
Yeah, two months gonna be calling sts Was that cover three?
But so yeah, that that's just my little side of it.
And yeah, uh it's good to kind of share these
stories because you don't get a chance to talk about this.
Speaker 1 (23:24):
But what about what about you guys, Like, was it
was it your call, you know, to call it quits
or how did how did it come to to to
an end?
Speaker 3 (23:35):
Yeah, for me, it was it was pretty much time
to call it quits. I knew that it was.
Speaker 5 (23:38):
I might have been able to get out another year,
but my last year in San Francisco, it was it
was just like up and down. I had injuries. I
tore my growing I ended up I needed growing surgery.
The growing wasn't I mean, I could have came back
and played, but at that point, I was later in
my career, I was really at that point. I played
a little bit of defense when I was in Cleveland,
(23:59):
but I was really like teams only, And at thirty
two years old, there's not a lot of teams looking
for special teams only players. They want guys that have
more value to the defense, offense, whatever it is. So
I pretty much knew that I was going to be done.
And for me, honestly, I had already had a house
in Boston. It was I mean, and for Beller to
give me an opportunity, I just it was a time
(24:21):
where I just couldn't pass up that opportunity for me
to be able to transition into back into football.
Speaker 3 (24:28):
So yeah, and for.
Speaker 2 (24:30):
Me, it was a similar situation where Bubbould just explained
and that it was my last game was in Super Bowl.
We have an exit physical and the doctor the times
name I forget Mix diagnosed me with a parsy tourn
achilles tendon after the game, And basically that's the kiss
of death for a guy who's a role player, special
(24:51):
teams player in his ninth year. And I'll never forget.
Bill called me on the phone, he and Scott Pioli
and are like, drot, we're not bring you back, And
it wasn't. And the thing that I really appreciated about it, though,
is that as we're about to hang up the phone,
I get the news, like okay, I'm gonna do next.
Bill gets back on the phone. He's like, Hey, I
(25:13):
just want you to know the four years that you
spent here meant a lot to me. And he didn't
have to say that, So I appreciated that, but it
was a hard pillar swall because I knew I didn't
have a Parsley torn Achilles tended, and that I wasn't
within a month or two running and still training. At
this point, my agent wasn't doing I felt what he
(25:34):
needed to do. But also to man, it just was
my time, and God made it obvious it was my time,
and so I'd accept that though I didn't want to.
And as I look back on it now, I see
how it all worked out to my benefit of not
going back into it, because I mean, we played in
the era where you wore running down full speed and
(25:54):
crashing into the way in those things.
Speaker 1 (26:01):
So who's two days? So you missed all ye that time.
To be honest with you, if.
Speaker 2 (26:11):
I kept playing, I would have got hurt to the
point to where I can't even put together sentences right
now to talk to you in a way in which
we're having these this podcast, So you look at it
in that light. The other thing too, I wanted.
Speaker 6 (26:23):
To throw you away.
Speaker 2 (26:23):
You talked about just like identification and being recognized, Like
right now, if you go into the grocery store, you're
walking around, do people recognize you?
Speaker 1 (26:35):
Yes? More so definitely more so in Philly than Cleveland,
but lately in Cleveland I've gotten that too, But yeah,
Philly for sure.
Speaker 2 (26:44):
And then I know for the people listening to me
like this sounds ridiculous, but that's gonna be an adjustment
to Wait, people don't know who I am. People don't
recognize me, people don't ask me what's going on with
the game and how I'm doing. That's it, and it
feeds your ego if I'm being really real with you,
And that was one of the things that I dealt with, like, wait,
people aren' gonna recognize me, know who I am and
(27:05):
talk to me. And but once you get over that
type of stuff and again find your foundation and other
things to identify yourself, then it's it's not severe at all.
It's anything you'd be like, who cares if they do it?
Speaker 6 (27:18):
Don't recognize me, that's real.
Speaker 1 (27:21):
I know we haven't touched on the family aspect and
how you know the change affected you guys family, Uh,
leaving you know one world that they that they knew
and walked into another. So uh any stories that you
(27:41):
guys allowed to share, you know in regards to to
fam and just how that how that impacted, whether children,
significant other, whoever, whoever it might be.
Speaker 2 (27:51):
Uh wow, I'll be transparent with you, guys. It affected
me tremendously.
Speaker 6 (27:57):
Said.
Speaker 2 (27:57):
One of the things that you learn in this game
is who loves you and who don't once it's over with.
And a lot of times people are with you for
the wrong reasons, more so about what you're bringing and
what they can get. And I had to learn that
the hard way that just because someone says that they
love you, what does that truly really mean? And it's
a heck of experience because a lot of times people
(28:18):
along for the ride because you're in the National Football
League and they see you as a commodity and they
don't see you truly as a person that once the
checks stopped coming in and wants to notoriety's not there.
They may take the perspective and a lot of times
this does occurrent of Okay, why am I with you?
Why am I you don't what I found attractive about
(28:40):
you and what initially drew me to you is no
longer there, so I think I'm gonna go elsewhere. And
that's a real thing.
Speaker 4 (28:47):
And I experienced that well, like with my kids, they
were mad as hell, because I was let every track practice,
every football practice culture walking up.
Speaker 6 (28:58):
And down the side line, What are you doing? What
are you doing? You're not supposed to be doing that
right now? Go stretch?
Speaker 4 (29:02):
Yeah, I was, So there was like, you know, go
back and play, you know, go do something.
Speaker 6 (29:10):
But uh, that was that part of it.
Speaker 4 (29:11):
And then just to kind of piggyback a little bit,
what you find out is and not just when you retire,
but throughout life just because they blood don't mean their family,
and you'll find it out quickly, very very quickly. So
we all have kind of been through certain situations where
you can speak on it. But I found that out
(29:32):
definitely when I returned to Yeah.
Speaker 5 (29:35):
You get you're still going to take part in those
one minute two minute runs conditioning run.
Speaker 1 (29:40):
Definitely retired, Definitely, I got to figure out what's the
new knowing for me on the workout routine. But I'm
definitely not like lifting like a mad man, I'll tell
you that, and I'm not doing the one minute too.
Like that is the only time probably in my football
career that I've like failed and like like failed in
like training session like the conditioning runs that we had
(30:05):
in ND when I got there like like nuts like
and he still does he does them. He's for his workout.
Why are you doing? Like, why are you torturing yourself
right now?
Speaker 6 (30:16):
Yeah?
Speaker 3 (30:16):
They're good, they're good.
Speaker 1 (30:17):
Are we training like I'm a track runner? Like four
hundred five hundred?
Speaker 2 (30:21):
Like, no doing that. These guys are not the norm
because typically what takes place dbs get fat.
Speaker 6 (30:30):
Yeah, I'm not definitely not doing that.
Speaker 2 (30:32):
And you don't want to be that guy. Man, let
me tell you. I got former teammates. I'm like, dog,
how in the world you used to run a four
to three? You wouldn't believe it. But because you keep
the same eating patterns, it's developed over this time. But
you were burrowing the calories, right, So even things like that,
how you go about your nutrition, Yeah, it's gonna make
a world difference far so I would say, you'll feel
better if you do keep a workout right.
Speaker 4 (30:54):
Now, because when I left, I got fat, angle sugar.
Speaker 3 (30:56):
Coated, and you look good right now.
Speaker 6 (30:59):
The Yeah, but it takes a lot. You already know that.
But when I walked away, I was hurting.
Speaker 4 (31:05):
I didn't go get the rehab like I was supposed to,
didn't jump on the bike, I had a plan, but
you know, of course I didn't follow through and then
next thing, you know, my neck kind of went this way,
I went that way, and I never forget my mom.
Speaker 6 (31:21):
Right. My mom was like, so I need.
Speaker 4 (31:24):
To talk to you all right, SA see she said,
I got the best diet plan ever.
Speaker 6 (31:31):
Right, So I'm sitting there right your mom can talk
to you. However, this is my baby, this is my mom.
Speaker 4 (31:36):
She was like, you will not believe us when I
tell you this. I want you to do it and
watch what happens. So I'm sitting here thinking that she
don't ordered something. She saw something on TV. You know
it's these you know, vitamins or I got to do
this plan that plan. She had a fork on the table.
(31:57):
She said, all I want you to do is pull
the ford backwards instead of pushing it forward. So when
you sit down and eat, pull the ford backwards. Don't
eat that much, and do the same with your chair.
I was like, I can't believes Like, yeah, you're too big.
I was like, hey, well that said when your mom
toald you, you got to work. So that was it for me.
(32:19):
I went straight and started working out and been doing
it ever since.
Speaker 5 (32:23):
I've always been like routinized with like having a workout regimen.
And I feel like now that you're now that you're
done and obviously you talked about maybe you'll be looking
for some type of structure. I think that that's a
really good way to have some structure, like I'm going.
Speaker 3 (32:41):
To do this workout this, you know, and just have
like a plan.
Speaker 5 (32:44):
Yeah, and for me and for me, I've I really
never stopped I never stopped training. I never stopped running,
I never stopped lifting.
Speaker 3 (32:53):
Going to the Olympics now that's the way that I
used to But I'm getting.
Speaker 1 (32:58):
Like for you to those three hundreds that is very similar. Yeah,
I don't know how. And that's my whole point. Like
training for me, like finish is a lifestyle like that's
not going to leave. But the way that I trained
I gotta alter because I'm not getting ready to take
on Derrick Henbry. You feel me like I want to
(33:20):
look apart. But what I'm saying is I don't need
I don't have to run three hundreds to feel in shape.
That could look completely different.
Speaker 6 (33:29):
Let's w w F in your future now know w w.
Speaker 1 (33:34):
I'll stay in the seats for that what I.
Speaker 2 (33:36):
Appreciated about what he does is that you're always gonna
and it's not gonna change. You're always gonna to get pushed.
You're always gonna need to put yourself in the state stress.
And what do we get from stress? We get strength,
we grow. And by him doing that to his body,
it's not in my opinion, it's actually helping him. And
something silly as right now, how often are you sick?
(33:57):
But probably not much, not often.
Speaker 5 (33:59):
I've had a cold for about three weeks, but aside
from that, I've been pretty I've been pretty good.
Speaker 2 (34:04):
Right And so because you're stressing your body out, so
it adapts because one of the things, again, yes, you're
gonna need a detox period so to speak, because it's
been through so much with the hitting and banging for
over twenty plus years.
Speaker 3 (34:15):
So that is part of it.
Speaker 2 (34:16):
But I do believe that you got to keep stressing
the body and if you do that, you'll feel younger.
I mean, I'm fifty one going on fifty two, and
most people don't think i'm my age and I don't
feel I look my age. I think one of the
reasons why that is because I say, consistent with working out.
Speaker 3 (34:32):
I feel like working out like helps you feel better.
Speaker 6 (34:35):
Yeah, Like I mean.
Speaker 5 (34:37):
It's I just feel better when I'm doing when i'm
doing something. Ye, I'm getting back and I'm getting back
into it. I'll be ready to run with the boys
when they come back in April. Yeah, that's like that's
the competitor in May. Like that's where I like, I
love being around the guys. I love challenging the guys
like I love being able to like whenever I'm feeling
(34:58):
good running down like on the old school kickoff right
right behind the unit and stuff like, I love that stuff.
Speaker 1 (35:04):
Yeah, stuff, How many injuries have you had? Open them
three hundreds?
Speaker 5 (35:12):
Look I had?
Speaker 1 (35:13):
Yeah, but what you do man? Run them three hundreds.
Speaker 3 (35:22):
To get calves ham strings.
Speaker 4 (35:24):
Yeah you're saying after he retired, how many injuries or
doing the time about recently.
Speaker 3 (35:29):
Yeah, damn strains. Yeah, look it is what it is.
Speaker 6 (35:36):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (35:37):
Yeah, good thing. Good thing he's still he still got
the train to say he's good. Yeah, absolutely, So what
are you know? I definitely appreciate the this talk, man,
it was it was great for you guys obviously, like
you have a lot of of memories, you know, throughout
(35:57):
your guys career, Like, just what are like some of
the the most the fondest memories that you guys will
forever like just cherish and treasure, like just throughout your
throughout your time in the locker room.
Speaker 5 (36:13):
I would honestly say, like the times I had the
most the most fun playing football were not necessarily the time. Well,
I mean, winning obviously creates, you know, excitement and enjoy
and all that stuff, But my favorite times were really
whenever I was playing in Cleveland for my first two years.
(36:34):
My first two years in Cleveland and then my first
year in San Francisco, we had really good special teams units,
but we had really like I was really close with
all the players on those units. You know, when I
was in Cleveland, it was like me Cribs, Mike, Mike Adams,
Nick Sorence, and Blake Costanzo. You know, we were super tight,
Joe Hayden, TJ Ward, Like, we were like super tight
(36:55):
as a group.
Speaker 6 (36:56):
And I will just.
Speaker 5 (36:57):
Always remember those moments. It's with those guys and how
and how close we were. But those are the those
are the things you're going to mess obviously. It's like
you were you had really good relationships with with the
DBS here you had, you had the shirts made last year.
But those are the those are the things that you
mess and and.
Speaker 6 (37:18):
What's your head back?
Speaker 4 (37:20):
Uh, just to kind of piggyback on that, it's a
quote that says, wars come and go with my soldiers
stay eternal. So when you think about the games, you
know there are certain games that it's going to stick out,
like the Super Bowl of course, but it's the guy
you go to war with you want to remember. So
the Jeremounta Trotters, the Bobby Taylor's, the Brian Dawkins, those
(37:43):
guys that I went to war with. Yeah, we're going
to remember certain games. Yeah, but you know the friendship,
the love and everything that we had in the locker
room is going to surpass that.
Speaker 6 (37:54):
No, it's a fire quote for me.
Speaker 2 (37:57):
I think about especially with the Patriots, like going on
the football field and before the game even started, because
we were so tight knit and we had paid the
price that week in practice, and we could just fill
the symmetry and synergy between ourselves on the sideline before
we even went on the before the game even got started,
(38:18):
that we're going to beat that team. We could just
sense it and fill it and it would convey itself.
So I won't ever forget that. I'll never forget the
training camps that double days and what that represent on
We'll never forget that. But at the same time, it
was a blessing because haven't been a going through that.
In the manufaction which we had to go through that,
(38:39):
I'm like, what can I not do? What could I
not overcome? What can I not achieve? Because I was
literally pushed to my physical and mental limits on a
daily basis for a two to three week gap and
I was able to overcome it. So that part never
leaves you, man, and build on that. Think about that,
because your mind will try to play tricks on you
(39:00):
and try to bring in doubt. But like, man, I
was able to accomplish this. And in your case, be
even more of a puffing your chest out. You're undrafted
player and you last in the league for thirteen years.
Speaker 6 (39:12):
Oh man, again you.
Speaker 2 (39:14):
Should walk around town like, yeah, my stuff don't stink.
But obviously keep that level of humility about you because
that's also a positive going for you as well. But man,
now you got everything to be in the right direction.
Like I said, if you literally take what you've done
in your career and transfer it to whatever you want
to do. You're going to find success because you found
in one of the hardest feels on earth to be successful.
Speaker 6 (39:37):
Yeah.
Speaker 4 (39:37):
Respect, respect, What was your best Let's talk moments now, right,
all right, we can go around for a second.
Speaker 6 (39:43):
I don't want to start with you.
Speaker 4 (39:45):
Tell me about like your worst and best moment when
it comes to football.
Speaker 1 (39:49):
M hmm, worst moments. Okay, I start at Damatha. Uh
So we're playing in the championship game sophomore year and
dum you know, well, you don't know because you play offense,
but like defense, play defense.
Speaker 6 (40:06):
Don't hold.
Speaker 1 (40:10):
Pa defense. Okay, you play what you play safety? Okay,
all right, No, I can see. I can see he
was roam in the middle using a box middle. Okay,
all so yeah, So anyway, you know how it is
that running back do stantly catch the ball in the
flat and all of a sudden, they's just like nobody
(40:32):
in the vicinity. Like you're like, all right, I know
there's a backer near somebody.
Speaker 2 (40:37):
Man.
Speaker 1 (40:38):
I came down from the from the safety position by
you know, mindre. I'm probably one sixty at that time.
I was supposed to be playing corner, but I'm playing
safet because we have seniors at at corner. Man, I go,
he's running down the sideline. I try to give my
dog his stick. He too too forty. Man put me
(41:01):
to sleep, got up, legs wobbly, put together. I got up. Man.
All I remember is my boy, my boy, Jonathan Mason
coming like coming into the game like Rod Rod Rod,
like I don't know how many times he was yelling
my name, but finally everything was clear. I heard him,
(41:24):
ran off the field, took the smelling salt, was in
three plays later, finished the game. But I say that
because nobody let that moment down like that entire we
wanted we won the game, but afterwards they were like, bro,
that was you, like, oh my god, like on the
Jungle Trin showing it. So that so that was that
(41:45):
was like one of my worst moments. And then I
would say in the league worst moment for me, uh
probably was just like a welcome to the league moment.
Playing my my rookie year, my gut. I made a
lot of tackles as a gun and we used to
do the gunner motion and we're playing Arizona Cardinals and
(42:05):
my god, come down and the dude from the box
comes out, and like at that time, I was vice,
So I took a super flat angle to try and
like get across the field like from the one of
the hardest hits I ever had in my in my
in my life, I swear to God but that that
(42:28):
those were probably some of my worst moments. And then
I would say some of my better moments. Man, shoot
my Shawn te moment I told Bubba like hit on
Emanual Sanders down the sideline, that that was like real
football right there. That my first time in the playoffs.
(42:50):
You know, we're playing in Atlanta, and it took me
six years to get to the playoffs. And I remember
me and Outshine that whole year, we're just talking about
it like bro, like we're gonna do it. We're gonna
get it done. Like this the year we're gonna get
into these playoffs and we're gonna go all the way.
And that feeling that I got is what like that
feeling that I used to just watch on television, like
(43:11):
the intensity and all that, like that really just hit me.
And I remember making the sack in that game, like
and I mean, obviously we won. That came down to
the one yard line. But like, just like those, those
those are some of, like you know, some of my
my greatest memories. You're never gonna forget your first interception,
You're never gonna forget the Super Bowl, all of that,
But those are some moments that stand out to me.
Speaker 2 (43:34):
I'm thinking about it as you're speaking, Rodney, and what
comes to mind for me? I would say my best
and worst moment all the same. And the reason why
I say that is when I got cut by the
Raiders and I'm at home and there's a sense of
embarrassment that goes along with that one being cut and
you're at home, y'all explaining to do you read in
(43:55):
your local paper that you're reading growing up as a kid,
and there it is, and everyone's ask you what went
wrong and what happened and all that. So that was
the worst moment because I'm dealing with this sense of
embarrassment that I let myself down, my family down, and
friends down, and people from the Bay down. But then
it's my best moment because I didn't quit, I didn't stop.
(44:20):
I went on a jacked up football field, still did
my workouts, went into a gym with people looking at
me and everything else, not caring, still getting my workouts
in and put myself a positioned that when I did
get that call, I was ready to go. So for me,
it was the worst and best because it taught me resiliency.
(44:40):
It taught me how to be a survivor. It taught
me how to be even more of a fighter. So
I would say that would be my best and worst
moment for.
Speaker 6 (44:48):
Me.
Speaker 5 (44:49):
I'll take it more to like on field I had,
I would say my best and worst moment were probably
in the same play. Seven were undefeated in the Super Bowl,
playing obviously against the Giants. Moss had just scored to
go up fourteen to ten. There's like two and a
half minutes left, so we were kicking off, come down
(45:11):
and blast the returner on like the seventeen yard line.
Like and I hadn't played in a ton of games
that year, but it was like, I'm like, I just
want us the game. Just want literally, just want us
the game. And then they ended up marching down the field.
We dropped like two picks on that DRIVEE drop one
on the sideline, Merriweather had one in his hands, and
(45:32):
then they get the helmet catch. Oh yeah, David Tyree
and then we end up giving up the touchdown, we
lose the game.
Speaker 3 (45:40):
But I went from thinking that I helped us, you.
Speaker 5 (45:43):
Know, put us in a position to win and go undefeated,
and then we end up losing the game. But that
was That's a tough one that I don't think i'll
ever forget.
Speaker 2 (45:51):
Yeah, rough seventeen.
Speaker 4 (45:52):
Oh well that is well, I'll start with the worst.
And you guys probably remember this. You are too young.
You remember when you went to go play the San
Diego Chargers. Okay, it was the baseball field, right, So.
Speaker 1 (46:08):
I played there?
Speaker 6 (46:09):
Did you play the Murphy? What what you play?
Speaker 1 (46:12):
I played there because Philip Rivers was still playing. Matthews
was the running back. Yeah, yeah, I played there.
Speaker 4 (46:20):
Man, all right, yeah, well I'm talking way back. And
then okay, so let me say these names. Uh say yeah,
Rodney Harrison. Yeah okay, so let me just tell your
quick story. So we were out there was with Philadelphia
and we had all white on and I remember running
(46:45):
to the sideline. We were running mid zone. I made
a move, had the ball in the correct hand. I
saw SAYU coming, didn't see Ridney Harrison. Okay, so I'm
running to the sideline. So my focus right now is
on say like, say, oh, he's beaming down on me.
So I'm like, okay, I can turn the corner on him.
So as I'm turning the corner, I'm looking back and
(47:06):
not looking forward.
Speaker 6 (47:09):
Yeah, you feel it already.
Speaker 4 (47:11):
Rodney Harrison hit me so hard to where now all
my momentum, his momentum.
Speaker 6 (47:18):
We all run into the sideline. He knocked me under
the bench. M M right.
Speaker 4 (47:24):
The gatorade fell on top of me, right, So I
get up and I was out of it. I sat
down on their bench.
Speaker 6 (47:32):
I thought I was on my bench. Meanwhile I'm sitting
on his bench. Everybody's looking at me.
Speaker 4 (47:38):
And then the kind of you know, smoke cleared a
little bit and I see a bunch of trainers walking
this way, and I'm asking.
Speaker 6 (47:47):
Why they coming this way? They were coming to get me.
Speaker 1 (47:51):
That's how hard he hit. You, remember, Rodney Harron.
Speaker 3 (47:55):
I played Rodney that his hands down.
Speaker 5 (48:00):
I would say at least that I've seen the most
physical football player that I've ever seen.
Speaker 3 (48:06):
He go out of his way to hit someone.
Speaker 6 (48:08):
Every player he was.
Speaker 4 (48:10):
He taped the wrists up to the elbow, so you
already know like from here he had to take old school.
Speaker 3 (48:17):
He used to use that form too all.
Speaker 6 (48:19):
The time time. But that's how hard he hit me.
I'm talking about a young he should be.
Speaker 2 (48:25):
He definitely should be.
Speaker 4 (48:27):
And my best moment was it was Opening day versus
the Cowboys had two hundred and one yards, So that's
one of the best moments.
Speaker 1 (48:41):
Man, that's a good day, great day. You guys have
not only defied the odds man and done that at
a high level, but you made the one of the
toughest transitions of them all, and you know, having prosperous
careers and everything that you guys are doing. So I
think that just speaks to man, just who you guys are,
(49:04):
the men, what the game has taught y'all the lessons,
and you've kind of embraced it all and staying here today.
Speaker 4 (49:13):
You know what I'm saying, Well, we want to say
we look accessful. That's what I want to say. I
know everybody here want to say, we love you. We
love everything that you brought to this town, this facility,
this game, this team, and you know how we did it.
Back in Philly, that where the relationship was built and
that's where it started. And once I walked through the door,
I never forget walking through the door and seeing him.
(49:35):
His eyes lightened up and mind lit up. It was
like here we go again, right, just trying to just
create that energy all over again. But I want to
say I love you, man. And you know it's funny
because I said this in the meeting. As men, we
don't get a chance to tell another man that we
love them without them saying something crazy.
Speaker 6 (49:53):
But let me just tell you what that means.
Speaker 4 (49:54):
That simply means I care about your well being and
what happens to you.
Speaker 6 (49:58):
So I love you. Whatever you need for me, whenever
you need it, you call me. Gotcha love no doubt you.
I love you too.
Speaker 5 (50:05):
I love you too, Rob Man. I'm truly gonna miss you.
I talked about it, you know, in front of the
players last week, and you know, having you around and
having been around you in the last three years, you know,
every coach wants a Rodney McLeod in the room. Hopefully
we have somebody that will step up next year, but
(50:27):
it is we're gonna miss you. I'm going to miss you.
We've had a lot of good moments, man. I do
appreciate you. Yeah, great person, great leader. You'll figure it out.
Figure out what you want to do. I appreciate you both,
love man, love.
Speaker 2 (50:42):
You, yeah, and I love what you represent. Man, got
my son here, he's observing what we're doing right now,
and this is a great life lesson teaching moments for him,
just to hear about what you are and who you
are and what you've accomplished. And I've told you this
on several occasions, just again of how amazing and what
you've accomplished is and how you should be proud of
that and you should man, because again, to walk out
(51:05):
on your own terms. I can tell you stories of
driving a car with Tom Brady and us having conversations
about Joe Montana getting cut because we both grew up
in the Bay Area and how amazing it is if
someone could walk down on their own terms. And you've done.
Speaker 1 (51:19):
That, man, respect, respect, love, I said it, fell listen,
appreciate it. I'm gonna see y'all on this next act
man now.
Speaker 3 (51:31):
But I love I can show you on ESPN.
Speaker 1 (51:34):
Yeah, for sure, we're gonna see We're gonna see what
we're gonna see.
Speaker 6 (51:38):
See them in the building.
Speaker 1 (51:39):
You can come back and visit, come back and visit
with coach.
Speaker 6 (51:42):
But yeah, I'm make a visit.
Speaker 1 (51:45):
Yeah, well that's another episode of The Dolls. On the podcast,
we appreciate our amazing guests UH for sharing their journey,
ask former players and talking about their transition into their
next act. They're still leaving the impact, still doing it big.
As you guys know. This is my last act and
(52:06):
we'll see what's next, So stay tuned for another The
Dolls Only podcast is O. G Rod signing out with peace,
love and happiness.
What's going on? Everybody? This is O G Rob back
for another episode of Dolls Only, and we have some
vari usesteemed guests uh here with us today. Uh former
players now wearing headsets. Let's hear about their journey. What's
going on with fellas?
Speaker 2 (00:20):
Man?
Speaker 3 (00:21):
Going on?
Speaker 1 (00:22):
Man? Welcome to the Dolls Only Podcast. Normally we have
players in this in these seas, but you know, we
got some former players. Uh, so we felt like this
was very fitting uh to bring you guys here today.
Speaker 4 (00:35):
Let me say we play No I mean no, no, no, no.
Speaker 1 (00:40):
I was trying to just give you your flowers, you
know what I'm saying, Like I think we all, we
all are like inspiring to like get to these the
places that you guys have reached obviously, and it's on
and privilege for me, you know, to be amongst a
group of decorated men like yourself. Uh you know that's
given everything to the game and every single way Bubba undrafted.
Speaker 3 (01:04):
Right yep, same as you.
Speaker 1 (01:06):
Yeah, yeah, I know I know that life. What would
you do eight eight years?
Speaker 3 (01:10):
Yeah, so I was.
Speaker 5 (01:12):
I did a total of ten, total of ten, but
my earlier in my career I was practice squad.
Speaker 3 (01:17):
Thankfully, I have, those seasons are accrued so that they're
my atension.
Speaker 5 (01:21):
Yeah yeah, yeah, but ten total seasons, so ten and
really eleven training camps because I ended up going to
NFL Europe after my rookie year, So eleven training camps,
yeah or not giving man.
Speaker 1 (01:34):
Yeah much respect? What three times captain so I was.
Speaker 3 (01:39):
Yeah, I was a captain here.
Speaker 5 (01:40):
Uh and then in out in San Francisco they named
me captain in the playoffs, which was which was pretty
cool for the playoff game and uh wildcard game at
at Green Bay. Yeah yeah, in a really cold game.
It was like minus fifteen.
Speaker 3 (01:54):
Yeah, one of the only games I've ever worn sleeves.
Speaker 1 (01:58):
Yeah.
Speaker 6 (01:59):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (02:00):
We got obviously do Stanley ten years, third round draft pick,
spent some time only what only two stops? Two stops
and Pittsburgh that's it.
Speaker 4 (02:12):
Yeah yeah man, then lead, then lead to State. Yeah
yeah right right, so yeah, man, just ten years of fun,
ten years of pain, and I, as I look back
over it, man wouldn't traded for nothing. Got two super
Bowl rings, come on, able to definitely do something that
(02:33):
I love right now. As far as coaching, being able
to live through these guys vicariously, it's awesome.
Speaker 6 (02:41):
So a little small piece of the journey.
Speaker 1 (02:43):
Yeah, yeah, got to put that two time champion on there.
I'm jealous only got one.
Speaker 6 (02:48):
We got one together?
Speaker 1 (02:49):
Yeah, we did, you know, we did.
Speaker 5 (02:52):
I was on the I was on the opposite side
of that one, which is not which is not so
that one, that one.
Speaker 1 (02:59):
Hurts my bad. You thought I was guaranteed too. We're
not going to say bad about that.
Speaker 6 (03:04):
Take that bad right, race that you're right, you're right,
you're right.
Speaker 1 (03:09):
Never apologize for compete. Shout out to GD for that one,
and that it leaves me. Then we got cherry three times, Yes, sir,
super Bowl champ. Drafted third round, How does it feel?
Speaker 6 (03:24):
Well?
Speaker 2 (03:24):
Man, First and foremost, thank you for being having me here.
And was a teammate of Duces in Philadelphia. So I
had three stops, well technically four. It was drafted by
New Orleans Saints second round. Went from there four years
to Oakland for a training camp, and I went back
home in the Bay Area. I found out that I
(03:45):
wasn't welcome back home. So I get let go by
the Raiders and I get picked up with Philly, spent
some time with Douce there. We make it to the playoffs,
and I was convinced that I finished my career in Philly.
Powers that be said otherwise, get picked up by the
New England Patriots in right place, right time, and while
I was there, we were fortunate enough to win three
(04:05):
Super Bowls. So, man, it's been a great journey. Football
has been great to all of us. We can all
attest to that. And you're in a great spot man,
because you're in the place right now where the game
kicked me out. I wasn't ready to be finished with
the game. I got nine years in. You're walking out
on your own terms. And most people, as I've told
you that before, don't have that luxury. They don't have
(04:26):
the opportunity to do that. They find themselves still want
to grass and hold on. But you're in a spot
to where you can walk away. Man, that's a heck
of accomplishment, especially when you consider undrafted and what you've
accomplished in the course of your life. So, man, you're
on the right track just by which whatever you've done
to be in the NFL for thirteen years, if you
take that to your life after football.
Speaker 1 (04:47):
You're gonna be a okay in my opinion, Yeah, I
appreciate that.
Speaker 5 (04:50):
After watching I got to chime in, after watching your
film from your rookie year, I cannot believe you're undrafted.
It is crazy to me that you're running flying around
that making place. Yeah, like fast, tough, good tackler.
Speaker 1 (05:05):
You know how I go. It gave me. They gave
me the the the hybrid, Like we don't know if
you're fast enough to play corner in this league, but
then we don't know if you're big enough to be
a safety. We probably maybe see you as a nickel,
but the verdict is still out. So it was a
lot of uncertainty. And of course, you know, I think
(05:27):
everything worked out the way it was supposed to, because
who knows. If I entered the league in one of
you guys position drafted, maybe that would have affected my
whole mindset. You know what I'm saying. I don't know,
but I felt like coming in undrafted like yourself, that
really just gave me the identity that I needed. That
I that's never left me from my entire existence in
(05:49):
this league. It's like, man, every day you gotta earn it.
No no, no, tomorrow, Like tomorrow is not promising.
Speaker 3 (05:55):
There's not a better example of that.
Speaker 1 (05:58):
You feel me like, that's how you got to get
down if you want to last as long as a
lot of us have.
Speaker 2 (06:04):
Well, Rodnie, you strike me as a guy that make
a really good coach, and I'm interested to do and
Bubba and how you guys made a determination because be
honest with you, when I got done, I was disenchanted
with coaches. I was like, I don't like majority of
them and don't seem to have the best interest on
the pro level of the players. Seems just to be
about politics and things of that nature. But you guys
(06:26):
obviously don't represent that. And you guys have made that
decision that hey, you want to be in this field,
and I like to think it's changed a lot too,
because I was used to guys sleeping in the facilities
and doing things of that nature, and you always got
to pay a price and work hard. But you would
strike me as a person that would also be really
a good coach, because you have that element about you
in which I feel you could teach.
Speaker 4 (06:48):
And he showed that on the field, you know, just
watching the DBS follow him and being able to watch
him on the field, be able to watch him in
the classroom and just listen to how he talks to
him and all engaged they are.
Speaker 6 (07:01):
I mean, you definitely can coach.
Speaker 4 (07:04):
Now if you want to get that his chair on
over there with us, stay right there, you know, come
on over.
Speaker 1 (07:10):
Yeah, that's I mean, give us, give us the truth,
like give us a quick snippet of like what it's
like to be a coach in the NFL, and like
you guys have now been coaching double digits now.
Speaker 5 (07:23):
I would say this first off, like I have the
privilege of you know, I had Rod for three years,
one in India and obviously two here in Cleveland, and
I got to coach him, you know directly.
Speaker 3 (07:35):
He was you know, he played, He played for me.
Speaker 5 (07:37):
He was a personal protector, which for me is the
most important communicator amongst your unit. And then I was
obviously a special teams coordinator, so I had the ability
to go around and watch the offensive and defensive walkthroughs
and the way that he approaches the game.
Speaker 3 (07:54):
His ability to I would say, pass.
Speaker 5 (07:57):
Along information to the younger player on just the extreme
details of every play, everything that goes into it was
admirable for me to be able to watch that. And
he has like every trait characteristic that you would ever
want in a leader, and that would obviously translate into coaching.
(08:18):
I mean, you'd be an incredible coach he decided to do.
Speaker 6 (08:21):
So, Yeah, I don't know if.
Speaker 5 (08:22):
You want to go down that path, but yeah, it
would be a really good coach.
Speaker 1 (08:26):
Yeah, it's in Uh there's conversations around it, but you know, nothing,
nothing concered. I think for me, it's all about time,
as we all know, like you get a game, you
know what I'm saying, So much it's hard to put
a price on time. And I think right now, you
know where I'm at is trying to get back those
(08:50):
like moments that I've lost, you know within my family. Uh,
just those those memories that are that are like timeless. Yeah,
and so I think that is what's most sacred to
me is my time right now. And that's a tough
commitment because like we all do, like we're gonna give, Yeah,
(09:11):
we're gonna give a hundred and ten percent of everything
that we you know what I'm saying, we enter into.
So and even now, like you guys are responsible for
helping us be the best version of ourselves. That's your responsibility. Now,
Like as you hold that that clicker for sure.
Speaker 4 (09:29):
You know, there's how many chances throughout life, and just
talking to everybody in this room, everybody's out listening. How
many times you get a chance to do something you love? Right,
you know, and all of us sitting here right now.
We love the game of football. We love everything that came,
(09:49):
you know, that came along with the game of football.
Speaker 6 (09:52):
For me, there was an extension.
Speaker 4 (09:55):
So the love part of it is embedded inside of
me is you know, I'm driven my passion inferior when
it comes to this game with football.
Speaker 6 (10:04):
So that was me playing.
Speaker 4 (10:06):
Then all of a sudden, when I retired and had
to step away, it was something that was pulling me back.
That was that passion, that love, that fury that was
still inside of me to be a part of it.
Speaker 3 (10:17):
How many and how many years were your way?
Speaker 6 (10:20):
Three?
Speaker 4 (10:20):
So I retired in two thousand and seven, all right,
came back in twenty ten. But along the way, I'm
doing TV. I'm doing a little bit of TV, doing
a little bit of radio. Being able to walk out
there on the field, you know, at the University of
South Carolina, I see those guys run.
Speaker 6 (10:36):
Around a little bit. Being able to talk to other guys.
Speaker 4 (10:40):
That I played with that were coaching at the time,
and I was like you In the beginning, I was like, man,
you know what, Man, I don't know if this coach
is for me because of the horror stories you hear
about sleeping in you know, the office. Yeah, so I
kind of stayed away from it. Then all of a sudden,
I get a phone call from Andy Reid and he
(11:00):
called me. He said, what are you doing now? I
was like, man, coach, you know, I looked at my phone.
I was like, man, I was still you know, I'm
still in shock because anytime you get a phone call
from your head coach, it was something you did wrong.
Speaker 6 (11:12):
I'm still think I'm playing the game at the time,
you know.
Speaker 4 (11:14):
But I was like, man, what's up, coach. He was like, hey, man,
I always thought that you would coach or be a coach.
Whyon't you come back and through the minority coaching program
and just just see what you you know, see if.
Speaker 6 (11:27):
You like it or not.
Speaker 4 (11:28):
And I was like, all right, coach, so boom I
get there. He DAPs me up. Man, give me this
big old Barry hug. He was like, hey, I got
a project for you. I remember your project is McCoy m.
So I'm walking through the door. I was like, man,
what do you mean. You know Sean McCory is my project.
He was like, yeah, that's your project. So make a
long story short. We went back and forth, we battled
(11:49):
a little bit, and but that fire came came back
and it hit me right then and there.
Speaker 6 (11:57):
It was like, this is what I want to do.
I want to be a part of it.
Speaker 4 (12:01):
And I remember leaving Lehigh's.
Speaker 6 (12:05):
Hottest hell up there right.
Speaker 4 (12:07):
I remember leaving, grabbing my bag, say coach man, I
really love this man, this is awesome. I'll, you know,
give you a call back. He was like, it's no
need to leave where you're going. And it's been fifteen
years later, you go.
Speaker 2 (12:20):
Now. I had a situation where once I retired, I
was like, what's my identity?
Speaker 6 (12:28):
Who am I?
Speaker 2 (12:29):
What am I?
Speaker 6 (12:31):
Did?
Speaker 2 (12:31):
You guys go through that part of it where you
were trying to figure out with football not being the
main thing that you're doing anymore, to how you're going
to deal with that and cope with that, because that's
one of the things that you will be more unlikely encounter.
Speaker 6 (12:45):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (12:45):
I've heard a lot of Yeah, those those stories about
this identity crisis, financial hardship, I mean marriage right, relationship struggle,
and the mental health you know side of it, like
where guys can go on a deeper depression, drug or
be whatever it might be. Those things are like are real?
Speaker 6 (13:06):
So great? Yeah, great question for me.
Speaker 5 (13:09):
I started coaching literally a month after I retired, and
he went right in unfortunately for.
Speaker 3 (13:18):
Me, Like, I'm glad that.
Speaker 5 (13:19):
I'm glad I did it when I did it, because
I don't know what would have happened if I would
have taken a break, if I would have been removed
from the game for that long. I always knew that
I wanted to be involved in football in some capacity,
but you know, I had an opportunity to go back
to New England and be the assistant there, and honestly,
I wouldn't be able to do my job the way
that I do it if I wouldn't have been mentored
(13:40):
there by Bill, you know, and learned from him, Yeah,
the greatest coach of all time in my opinion, like
and learn.
Speaker 3 (13:47):
How to really do it.
Speaker 5 (13:49):
But I feel like that really that really groomed me
as as a coach today. Like that's my number one thing,
is I love being able to and I've told you
this a number of times, Like my favorite thing to
do and football as a coach is be able to
see the development of your players over the course of
the season and over the course of their careers and
see them, you know, succeed. Guys like Zaire Franklin it
(14:12):
was our special teams captain for three years, pay Pro
Bowl linebacker this year and then yeah, like that, Like
I texted him the other day, like I'm a proud
coach to be able to.
Speaker 3 (14:21):
Have guys like that, see those guys succeed and do
well and you know, and be great people too.
Speaker 4 (14:28):
So let's go to feed the competitiveness that you have.
Like that's what you got to find out, like as
soon as you walk away, because you've been competing for
a very long time, you know, ever since literal League,
middle school, high school. I mean, of course you played
thirteen years in league, but that was the build up,
the middle league, the middle school, high school. So now
(14:49):
when you walk away, you walk out of the door,
how are you going to get that juice? How are
you going to get that feeling of competing on Sunday?
Speaker 6 (14:58):
It won't be Domino's.
Speaker 4 (14:59):
It won't be checking, but you don't. I had to
find out and that's what led me to coaching.
Speaker 2 (15:11):
Don't do rec basketball.
Speaker 1 (15:14):
Fights, No, six, am, who session is?
Speaker 2 (15:19):
I mean, it is a way, It's an outlet. I
actually took up martial arts as a way of dealing
with the physical part of it. But I would say,
if you do the rec basketball piece, oh he's a
former professional athlete, Guys gonna try to measure themselves against
you from a physical standpoint, and it becomes way more competitive.
Needs of these So I say it just but at
(15:40):
the same time there's some truth to it. Just find
somewhere you can get that outlet. But the main thing
that I did learn from my experience was that one
football can't be identity in the first place. I don't
know your faith and how you pursue that, but for
me that became an important part of it helped me
get that identity. So it wasn't this great depression that
didn't last too long. I dealt with it, but didn't
(16:03):
last long because I had something else to turn to
for my identity. So I think a lot of guys
don't have that, and they end up being in that
piece to where Okay, I've hit my high point in
life in my twenty late twenties or early thirties, and
there's still another forty fifty years of life expectancy left
and we don't want to be in that space. But again,
(16:23):
as I said earlier, if you continue to do what
you did and what you learned from this game, which
you picked up from these gentlemen, and apply it to
your life after football or with football, be to the
coach or broadcast or anything of that nature, you're gonna
be okay. But the key part to it all this
is this can't be everything. You have to have other avenues.
And I think you've already said that with how you
want to get.
Speaker 4 (16:43):
Time back with your family my piece and get taped
up to go to the wreck.
Speaker 1 (16:50):
Nah, I've like, honestly, I've always tried to like stay
in that that mindset of not allowing myself to so
be defined by like the helmet, and in the off
season like putting myselves in different rooms, different spaces so
that it may make the transition whenever that is just
(17:13):
a little easier. Like I know there's going to be struggle,
but I think the biggest thing that I always hear
is like it's an identity crisis and it's honestly idle time,
Like where your time has been kind of structured for
(17:35):
you for so long that you've gotten into that routine
of Okay, I'm really just on my own for like
four months out of the year whatever that might be right,
and you can find things to do in that four months.
But when you talk about an entire year that like
outside looking in, people aren't necessarily calling you or whatever,
(17:59):
asking you, like putting you on this you know what
I'm saying, on this pedestal that you've been on for
so long, Like where do you find yourself in the world?
Like what? And like what are you doing? And I
think that that in itself has you know, a great
effect on people. So like for you, guys, because you
had a gap, you had a gap in between you
(18:21):
retiring and like you finding your next your next job, right,
and obviously you said it was well three years til
you got back into coaching. Bubby, You're completely different. You're crazy.
You're crazy. A month later, but like what did you guys,
Like how did you manage your time? Like was that
(18:43):
was that an issue for you guys? And how did
you establish maybe a new routine for what existed, you
know now as you moved on to like the next act.
Speaker 2 (18:54):
Well, I was aware that the timers approaching, so I
did start making moves for Okay, what's my next step.
I was in the world of finance, so I started
studying it on that and just doing little things to
just give myself familiar with what that will represent. So
I would use that. But it is something to be
said about having a complete full day yourself and what
(19:15):
you're gonna do with it. I mean, I would still
work out, I would still train as if I was
going to get that phone call still, but the phone
call is never came. But I was doing other things
like just preparing myself for that next step in the
career with that idle time, because that's the thing. You're
gonna explore this world and there's so many things out
there for you to do that's just offered to you,
as Deuce just said it earlier. Being able to find
(19:36):
what identify and what you love and what you're passionate about,
and being in a space and place to where you
can do that where it's not just okay, I need
to notify to.
Speaker 6 (19:45):
Survive, but I can really.
Speaker 2 (19:48):
Devote myself to something that I'm passionate about and I
feel is gonna have impact on my life and others
as well. And if you can identify that, then that
time that you are feeling just being ilely wasted, it
won't be if you can identify that.
Speaker 4 (20:02):
Yeah, I was aware that retiring was approaching, still wasn't ready.
Speaker 6 (20:07):
So you know, we're young and you talk about retiring.
Speaker 4 (20:14):
You heard your parents talk about it, and they were,
you know, late into their seventies eighties, and here you are,
like mid thirties and you're talking about retiring and you're
still young. And you know, maybe it's because of an injury,
or maybe because you played a long time. It's just,
you know, the game is kind of passed you by.
No matter what the reason is. There's no book out
(20:34):
there that says you're ready to retire at this age.
Speaker 6 (20:37):
Now.
Speaker 4 (20:37):
As you talk to your parents and elders or whoever,
you know, they kind of follow when I'm seventy five,
when we do this, or when I'm eight, you know,
if they live that long or whatever, I'm sixty five,
I want to do this. It's kind of a little
book out there, little navigation for them, but not at
in thirty or thirty two or thirty three. So that's
one of the things, man, that was kind of tough
for me, just saying okay, kind of talked about it earlier,
(21:01):
like what's next for me, and then all of a
sudden when I fell in love with coaching all over again,
being able to live vicariously through my players, being able
to go out there, and like Bubba was saying, watch
these guys grow. I'm butttered my teaching. I'm under like
this is Deuce is putting him out on the field.
Dukes believes in him. Dude said that this guy should
(21:23):
be number one. And now you're watching them and you know,
seeing that guy grow, and it feels so good and
right now, like that's every day I walk through these doors.
Speaker 6 (21:34):
Every day I walk through these doors, they do something
I love.
Speaker 4 (21:37):
There's no way that I'm not going to show how
much I love them or how much I love it.
Speaker 6 (21:43):
And you know that from me being on the field,
you know that I can't. That's just me.
Speaker 4 (21:47):
That's the juice, and that's the fire that's in my gut. So,
like you talked about for yourself, the reason you retired
was that not on your Was that not your call? Well,
my knee was bothering me at the time. I had
(22:07):
a couple more phone calls that you know was coming
through it. When I got to let go from Pittsburgh
and then you know, I sat down for a second.
I was like, man, my right knee is killing me.
I had to list frank in my right foot from
earlier in my career. But it started bothering me a
little bit, and I said, no matter what, I'm not
ready to go somewhere else and give my all, no
(22:29):
matter if the.
Speaker 6 (22:29):
Phone call come through.
Speaker 4 (22:30):
I wasn't one of those ones that you know, would
take the phone call and was signed because I could
and then be let go a couple of weeks later.
Speaker 6 (22:38):
This this shit means a lot. Yeah.
Speaker 4 (22:41):
So I didn't want to go there and not be ready.
And that was one of my fears too. I did
not want to show up and not be ready. Training
camps always, you know, And that's one thing to do, Subchet,
that's one thing for you. Don't get it twisted at all.
You're gonna wake up July thirty first, about six am.
Speaker 1 (23:01):
You're gonna do that for about two weeks.
Speaker 4 (23:09):
Yeah, two months gonna be calling sts Was that cover three?
But so yeah, that that's just my little side of it.
And yeah, uh it's good to kind of share these
stories because you don't get a chance to talk about this.
Speaker 1 (23:24):
But what about what about you guys, Like, was it
was it your call, you know, to call it quits
or how did how did it come to to to
an end?
Speaker 3 (23:35):
Yeah, for me, it was it was pretty much time
to call it quits. I knew that it was.
Speaker 5 (23:38):
I might have been able to get out another year,
but my last year in San Francisco, it was it
was just like up and down. I had injuries. I
tore my growing I ended up I needed growing surgery.
The growing wasn't I mean, I could have came back
and played, but at that point, I was later in
my career, I was really at that point. I played
a little bit of defense when I was in Cleveland,
(23:59):
but I was really like teams only, And at thirty
two years old, there's not a lot of teams looking
for special teams only players. They want guys that have
more value to the defense, offense, whatever it is. So
I pretty much knew that I was going to be done.
And for me, honestly, I had already had a house
in Boston. It was I mean, and for Beller to
give me an opportunity, I just it was a time
(24:21):
where I just couldn't pass up that opportunity for me
to be able to transition into back into football.
Speaker 3 (24:28):
So yeah, and for.
Speaker 2 (24:30):
Me, it was a similar situation where Bubbould just explained
and that it was my last game was in Super Bowl.
We have an exit physical and the doctor the times
name I forget Mix diagnosed me with a parsy tourn
achilles tendon after the game, And basically that's the kiss
of death for a guy who's a role player, special
(24:51):
teams player in his ninth year. And I'll never forget.
Bill called me on the phone, he and Scott Pioli
and are like, drot, we're not bring you back, And
it wasn't. And the thing that I really appreciated about it, though,
is that as we're about to hang up the phone,
I get the news, like okay, I'm gonna do next.
Bill gets back on the phone. He's like, Hey, I
(25:13):
just want you to know the four years that you
spent here meant a lot to me. And he didn't
have to say that, So I appreciated that, but it
was a hard pillar swall because I knew I didn't
have a Parsley torn Achilles tended, and that I wasn't
within a month or two running and still training. At
this point, my agent wasn't doing I felt what he
(25:34):
needed to do. But also to man, it just was
my time, and God made it obvious it was my time,
and so I'd accept that though I didn't want to.
And as I look back on it now, I see
how it all worked out to my benefit of not
going back into it, because I mean, we played in
the era where you wore running down full speed and
(25:54):
crashing into the way in those things.
Speaker 1 (26:01):
So who's two days? So you missed all ye that time.
To be honest with you, if.
Speaker 2 (26:11):
I kept playing, I would have got hurt to the
point to where I can't even put together sentences right
now to talk to you in a way in which
we're having these this podcast, So you look at it
in that light. The other thing too, I wanted.
Speaker 6 (26:23):
To throw you away.
Speaker 2 (26:23):
You talked about just like identification and being recognized, Like
right now, if you go into the grocery store, you're
walking around, do people recognize you?
Speaker 1 (26:35):
Yes? More so definitely more so in Philly than Cleveland,
but lately in Cleveland I've gotten that too, But yeah,
Philly for sure.
Speaker 2 (26:44):
And then I know for the people listening to me
like this sounds ridiculous, but that's gonna be an adjustment
to Wait, people don't know who I am. People don't
recognize me, people don't ask me what's going on with
the game and how I'm doing. That's it, and it
feeds your ego if I'm being really real with you,
And that was one of the things that I dealt with, like, wait,
people aren' gonna recognize me, know who I am and
(27:05):
talk to me. And but once you get over that
type of stuff and again find your foundation and other
things to identify yourself, then it's it's not severe at all.
It's anything you'd be like, who cares if they do it?
Speaker 6 (27:18):
Don't recognize me, that's real.
Speaker 1 (27:21):
I know we haven't touched on the family aspect and
how you know the change affected you guys family, Uh,
leaving you know one world that they that they knew
and walked into another. So uh any stories that you
(27:41):
guys allowed to share, you know in regards to to
fam and just how that how that impacted, whether children,
significant other, whoever, whoever it might be.
Speaker 2 (27:51):
Uh wow, I'll be transparent with you, guys. It affected
me tremendously.
Speaker 6 (27:57):
Said.
Speaker 2 (27:57):
One of the things that you learn in this game
is who loves you and who don't once it's over with.
And a lot of times people are with you for
the wrong reasons, more so about what you're bringing and
what they can get. And I had to learn that
the hard way that just because someone says that they
love you, what does that truly really mean? And it's
a heck of experience because a lot of times people
(28:18):
along for the ride because you're in the National Football
League and they see you as a commodity and they
don't see you truly as a person that once the
checks stopped coming in and wants to notoriety's not there.
They may take the perspective and a lot of times
this does occurrent of Okay, why am I with you?
Why am I you don't what I found attractive about
(28:40):
you and what initially drew me to you is no
longer there, so I think I'm gonna go elsewhere. And
that's a real thing.
Speaker 4 (28:47):
And I experienced that well, like with my kids, they
were mad as hell, because I was let every track practice,
every football practice culture walking up.
Speaker 6 (28:58):
And down the side line, What are you doing? What
are you doing? You're not supposed to be doing that
right now? Go stretch?
Speaker 4 (29:02):
Yeah, I was, So there was like, you know, go
back and play, you know, go do something.
Speaker 6 (29:10):
But uh, that was that part of it.
Speaker 4 (29:11):
And then just to kind of piggyback a little bit,
what you find out is and not just when you retire,
but throughout life just because they blood don't mean their family,
and you'll find it out quickly, very very quickly. So
we all have kind of been through certain situations where
you can speak on it. But I found that out
(29:32):
definitely when I returned to Yeah.
Speaker 5 (29:35):
You get you're still going to take part in those
one minute two minute runs conditioning run.
Speaker 1 (29:40):
Definitely retired, Definitely, I got to figure out what's the
new knowing for me on the workout routine. But I'm
definitely not like lifting like a mad man, I'll tell
you that, and I'm not doing the one minute too.
Like that is the only time probably in my football
career that I've like failed and like like failed in
like training session like the conditioning runs that we had
(30:05):
in ND when I got there like like nuts like
and he still does he does them. He's for his workout.
Why are you doing? Like, why are you torturing yourself
right now?
Speaker 6 (30:16):
Yeah?
Speaker 3 (30:16):
They're good, they're good.
Speaker 1 (30:17):
Are we training like I'm a track runner? Like four
hundred five hundred?
Speaker 2 (30:21):
Like, no doing that. These guys are not the norm
because typically what takes place dbs get fat.
Speaker 6 (30:30):
Yeah, I'm not definitely not doing that.
Speaker 2 (30:32):
And you don't want to be that guy. Man, let
me tell you. I got former teammates. I'm like, dog,
how in the world you used to run a four
to three? You wouldn't believe it. But because you keep
the same eating patterns, it's developed over this time. But
you were burrowing the calories, right, So even things like that,
how you go about your nutrition, Yeah, it's gonna make
a world difference far so I would say, you'll feel
better if you do keep a workout right.
Speaker 4 (30:54):
Now, because when I left, I got fat, angle sugar.
Speaker 3 (30:56):
Coated, and you look good right now.
Speaker 6 (30:59):
The Yeah, but it takes a lot. You already know that.
But when I walked away, I was hurting.
Speaker 4 (31:05):
I didn't go get the rehab like I was supposed to,
didn't jump on the bike, I had a plan, but
you know, of course I didn't follow through and then
next thing, you know, my neck kind of went this way,
I went that way, and I never forget my mom.
Speaker 6 (31:21):
Right. My mom was like, so I need.
Speaker 4 (31:24):
To talk to you all right, SA see she said,
I got the best diet plan ever.
Speaker 6 (31:31):
Right, So I'm sitting there right your mom can talk
to you. However, this is my baby, this is my mom.
Speaker 4 (31:36):
She was like, you will not believe us when I
tell you this. I want you to do it and
watch what happens. So I'm sitting here thinking that she
don't ordered something. She saw something on TV. You know
it's these you know, vitamins or I got to do
this plan that plan. She had a fork on the table.
(31:57):
She said, all I want you to do is pull
the ford backwards instead of pushing it forward. So when
you sit down and eat, pull the ford backwards. Don't
eat that much, and do the same with your chair.
I was like, I can't believes Like, yeah, you're too big.
I was like, hey, well that said when your mom
toald you, you got to work. So that was it for me.
(32:19):
I went straight and started working out and been doing
it ever since.
Speaker 5 (32:23):
I've always been like routinized with like having a workout regimen.
And I feel like now that you're now that you're
done and obviously you talked about maybe you'll be looking
for some type of structure. I think that that's a
really good way to have some structure, like I'm going.
Speaker 3 (32:41):
To do this workout this, you know, and just have
like a plan.
Speaker 5 (32:44):
Yeah, and for me and for me, I've I really
never stopped I never stopped training. I never stopped running,
I never stopped lifting.
Speaker 3 (32:53):
Going to the Olympics now that's the way that I
used to But I'm getting.
Speaker 1 (32:58):
Like for you to those three hundreds that is very similar. Yeah,
I don't know how. And that's my whole point. Like
training for me, like finish is a lifestyle like that's
not going to leave. But the way that I trained
I gotta alter because I'm not getting ready to take
on Derrick Henbry. You feel me like I want to
(33:20):
look apart. But what I'm saying is I don't need
I don't have to run three hundreds to feel in shape.
That could look completely different.
Speaker 6 (33:29):
Let's w w F in your future now know w w.
Speaker 1 (33:34):
I'll stay in the seats for that what I.
Speaker 2 (33:36):
Appreciated about what he does is that you're always gonna
and it's not gonna change. You're always gonna to get pushed.
You're always gonna need to put yourself in the state stress.
And what do we get from stress? We get strength,
we grow. And by him doing that to his body,
it's not in my opinion, it's actually helping him. And
something silly as right now, how often are you sick?
(33:57):
But probably not much, not often.
Speaker 5 (33:59):
I've had a cold for about three weeks, but aside
from that, I've been pretty I've been pretty good.
Speaker 2 (34:04):
Right And so because you're stressing your body out, so
it adapts because one of the things, again, yes, you're
gonna need a detox period so to speak, because it's
been through so much with the hitting and banging for
over twenty plus years.
Speaker 3 (34:15):
So that is part of it.
Speaker 2 (34:16):
But I do believe that you got to keep stressing
the body and if you do that, you'll feel younger.
I mean, I'm fifty one going on fifty two, and
most people don't think i'm my age and I don't
feel I look my age. I think one of the
reasons why that is because I say, consistent with working out.
Speaker 3 (34:32):
I feel like working out like helps you feel better.
Speaker 6 (34:35):
Yeah, Like I mean.
Speaker 5 (34:37):
It's I just feel better when I'm doing when i'm
doing something. Ye, I'm getting back and I'm getting back
into it. I'll be ready to run with the boys
when they come back in April. Yeah, that's like that's
the competitor in May. Like that's where I like, I
love being around the guys. I love challenging the guys
like I love being able to like whenever I'm feeling
(34:58):
good running down like on the old school kickoff right
right behind the unit and stuff like, I love that stuff.
Speaker 1 (35:04):
Yeah, stuff, How many injuries have you had? Open them
three hundreds?
Speaker 5 (35:12):
Look I had?
Speaker 1 (35:13):
Yeah, but what you do man? Run them three hundreds.
Speaker 3 (35:22):
To get calves ham strings.
Speaker 4 (35:24):
Yeah you're saying after he retired, how many injuries or
doing the time about recently.
Speaker 3 (35:29):
Yeah, damn strains. Yeah, look it is what it is.
Speaker 6 (35:36):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (35:37):
Yeah, good thing. Good thing he's still he still got
the train to say he's good. Yeah, absolutely, So what
are you know? I definitely appreciate the this talk, man,
it was it was great for you guys obviously, like
you have a lot of of memories, you know, throughout
(35:57):
your guys career, Like, just what are like some of
the the most the fondest memories that you guys will
forever like just cherish and treasure, like just throughout your
throughout your time in the locker room.
Speaker 5 (36:13):
I would honestly say, like the times I had the
most the most fun playing football were not necessarily the time. Well,
I mean, winning obviously creates, you know, excitement and enjoy
and all that stuff, But my favorite times were really
whenever I was playing in Cleveland for my first two years.
(36:34):
My first two years in Cleveland and then my first
year in San Francisco, we had really good special teams units,
but we had really like I was really close with
all the players on those units. You know, when I
was in Cleveland, it was like me Cribs, Mike, Mike Adams,
Nick Sorence, and Blake Costanzo. You know, we were super tight,
Joe Hayden, TJ Ward, Like, we were like super tight
(36:55):
as a group.
Speaker 6 (36:56):
And I will just.
Speaker 5 (36:57):
Always remember those moments. It's with those guys and how
and how close we were. But those are the those
are the things you're going to mess obviously. It's like
you were you had really good relationships with with the
DBS here you had, you had the shirts made last year.
But those are the those are the things that you
mess and and.
Speaker 6 (37:18):
What's your head back?
Speaker 4 (37:20):
Uh, just to kind of piggyback on that, it's a
quote that says, wars come and go with my soldiers
stay eternal. So when you think about the games, you
know there are certain games that it's going to stick out,
like the Super Bowl of course, but it's the guy
you go to war with you want to remember. So
the Jeremounta Trotters, the Bobby Taylor's, the Brian Dawkins, those
(37:43):
guys that I went to war with. Yeah, we're going
to remember certain games. Yeah, but you know the friendship,
the love and everything that we had in the locker
room is going to surpass that.
Speaker 6 (37:54):
No, it's a fire quote for me.
Speaker 2 (37:57):
I think about especially with the Patriots, like going on
the football field and before the game even started, because
we were so tight knit and we had paid the
price that week in practice, and we could just fill
the symmetry and synergy between ourselves on the sideline before
we even went on the before the game even got started,
(38:18):
that we're going to beat that team. We could just
sense it and fill it and it would convey itself.
So I won't ever forget that. I'll never forget the
training camps that double days and what that represent on
We'll never forget that. But at the same time, it
was a blessing because haven't been a going through that.
In the manufaction which we had to go through that,
(38:39):
I'm like, what can I not do? What could I
not overcome? What can I not achieve? Because I was
literally pushed to my physical and mental limits on a
daily basis for a two to three week gap and
I was able to overcome it. So that part never
leaves you, man, and build on that. Think about that,
because your mind will try to play tricks on you
(39:00):
and try to bring in doubt. But like, man, I
was able to accomplish this. And in your case, be
even more of a puffing your chest out. You're undrafted
player and you last in the league for thirteen years.
Speaker 6 (39:12):
Oh man, again you.
Speaker 2 (39:14):
Should walk around town like, yeah, my stuff don't stink.
But obviously keep that level of humility about you because
that's also a positive going for you as well. But man,
now you got everything to be in the right direction.
Like I said, if you literally take what you've done
in your career and transfer it to whatever you want
to do. You're going to find success because you found
in one of the hardest feels on earth to be successful.
Speaker 6 (39:37):
Yeah.
Speaker 4 (39:37):
Respect, respect, What was your best Let's talk moments now, right,
all right, we can go around for a second.
Speaker 6 (39:43):
I don't want to start with you.
Speaker 4 (39:45):
Tell me about like your worst and best moment when
it comes to football.
Speaker 1 (39:49):
M hmm, worst moments. Okay, I start at Damatha. Uh
So we're playing in the championship game sophomore year and
dum you know, well, you don't know because you play offense,
but like defense, play defense.
Speaker 6 (40:06):
Don't hold.
Speaker 1 (40:10):
Pa defense. Okay, you play what you play safety? Okay,
all right, No, I can see. I can see he
was roam in the middle using a box middle. Okay,
all so yeah, So anyway, you know how it is
that running back do stantly catch the ball in the
flat and all of a sudden, they's just like nobody
(40:32):
in the vicinity. Like you're like, all right, I know
there's a backer near somebody.
Speaker 2 (40:37):
Man.
Speaker 1 (40:38):
I came down from the from the safety position by
you know, mindre. I'm probably one sixty at that time.
I was supposed to be playing corner, but I'm playing
safet because we have seniors at at corner. Man, I go,
he's running down the sideline. I try to give my
dog his stick. He too too forty. Man put me
(41:01):
to sleep, got up, legs wobbly, put together. I got up. Man.
All I remember is my boy, my boy, Jonathan Mason
coming like coming into the game like Rod Rod Rod,
like I don't know how many times he was yelling
my name, but finally everything was clear. I heard him,
(41:24):
ran off the field, took the smelling salt, was in
three plays later, finished the game. But I say that
because nobody let that moment down like that entire we
wanted we won the game, but afterwards they were like, bro,
that was you, like, oh my god, like on the
Jungle Trin showing it. So that so that was that
(41:45):
was like one of my worst moments. And then I
would say in the league worst moment for me, uh
probably was just like a welcome to the league moment.
Playing my my rookie year, my gut. I made a
lot of tackles as a gun and we used to
do the gunner motion and we're playing Arizona Cardinals and
(42:05):
my god, come down and the dude from the box
comes out, and like at that time, I was vice,
So I took a super flat angle to try and
like get across the field like from the one of
the hardest hits I ever had in my in my
in my life, I swear to God but that that
(42:28):
those were probably some of my worst moments. And then
I would say some of my better moments. Man, shoot
my Shawn te moment I told Bubba like hit on
Emanual Sanders down the sideline, that that was like real
football right there. That my first time in the playoffs.
(42:50):
You know, we're playing in Atlanta, and it took me
six years to get to the playoffs. And I remember
me and Outshine that whole year, we're just talking about
it like bro, like we're gonna do it. We're gonna
get it done. Like this the year we're gonna get
into these playoffs and we're gonna go all the way.
And that feeling that I got is what like that
feeling that I used to just watch on television, like
(43:11):
the intensity and all that, like that really just hit me.
And I remember making the sack in that game, like
and I mean, obviously we won. That came down to
the one yard line. But like, just like those, those
those are some of, like you know, some of my
my greatest memories. You're never gonna forget your first interception,
You're never gonna forget the Super Bowl, all of that,
But those are some moments that stand out to me.
Speaker 2 (43:34):
I'm thinking about it as you're speaking, Rodney, and what
comes to mind for me? I would say my best
and worst moment all the same. And the reason why
I say that is when I got cut by the
Raiders and I'm at home and there's a sense of
embarrassment that goes along with that one being cut and
you're at home, y'all explaining to do you read in
(43:55):
your local paper that you're reading growing up as a kid,
and there it is, and everyone's ask you what went
wrong and what happened and all that. So that was
the worst moment because I'm dealing with this sense of
embarrassment that I let myself down, my family down, and
friends down, and people from the Bay down. But then
it's my best moment because I didn't quit, I didn't stop.
(44:20):
I went on a jacked up football field, still did
my workouts, went into a gym with people looking at
me and everything else, not caring, still getting my workouts
in and put myself a positioned that when I did
get that call, I was ready to go. So for me,
it was the worst and best because it taught me resiliency.
(44:40):
It taught me how to be a survivor. It taught
me how to be even more of a fighter. So
I would say that would be my best and worst
moment for.
Speaker 6 (44:48):
Me.
Speaker 5 (44:49):
I'll take it more to like on field I had,
I would say my best and worst moment were probably
in the same play. Seven were undefeated in the Super Bowl,
playing obviously against the Giants. Moss had just scored to
go up fourteen to ten. There's like two and a
half minutes left, so we were kicking off, come down
(45:11):
and blast the returner on like the seventeen yard line.
Like and I hadn't played in a ton of games
that year, but it was like, I'm like, I just
want us the game. Just want literally, just want us
the game. And then they ended up marching down the field.
We dropped like two picks on that DRIVEE drop one
on the sideline, Merriweather had one in his hands, and
(45:32):
then they get the helmet catch. Oh yeah, David Tyree
and then we end up giving up the touchdown, we
lose the game.
Speaker 3 (45:40):
But I went from thinking that I helped us, you.
Speaker 5 (45:43):
Know, put us in a position to win and go undefeated,
and then we end up losing the game. But that
was That's a tough one that I don't think i'll
ever forget.
Speaker 2 (45:51):
Yeah, rough seventeen.
Speaker 4 (45:52):
Oh well that is well, I'll start with the worst.
And you guys probably remember this. You are too young.
You remember when you went to go play the San
Diego Chargers. Okay, it was the baseball field, right, So.
Speaker 1 (46:08):
I played there?
Speaker 6 (46:09):
Did you play the Murphy? What what you play?
Speaker 1 (46:12):
I played there because Philip Rivers was still playing. Matthews
was the running back. Yeah, yeah, I played there.
Speaker 4 (46:20):
Man, all right, yeah, well I'm talking way back. And
then okay, so let me say these names. Uh say yeah,
Rodney Harrison. Yeah okay, so let me just tell your
quick story. So we were out there was with Philadelphia
and we had all white on and I remember running
(46:45):
to the sideline. We were running mid zone. I made
a move, had the ball in the correct hand. I
saw SAYU coming, didn't see Ridney Harrison. Okay, so I'm
running to the sideline. So my focus right now is
on say like, say, oh, he's beaming down on me.
So I'm like, okay, I can turn the corner on him.
So as I'm turning the corner, I'm looking back and
(47:06):
not looking forward.
Speaker 6 (47:09):
Yeah, you feel it already.
Speaker 4 (47:11):
Rodney Harrison hit me so hard to where now all
my momentum, his momentum.
Speaker 6 (47:18):
We all run into the sideline. He knocked me under
the bench. M M right.
Speaker 4 (47:24):
The gatorade fell on top of me, right, So I
get up and I was out of it. I sat
down on their bench.
Speaker 6 (47:32):
I thought I was on my bench. Meanwhile I'm sitting
on his bench. Everybody's looking at me.
Speaker 4 (47:38):
And then the kind of you know, smoke cleared a
little bit and I see a bunch of trainers walking
this way, and I'm asking.
Speaker 6 (47:47):
Why they coming this way? They were coming to get me.
Speaker 1 (47:51):
That's how hard he hit. You, remember, Rodney Harron.
Speaker 3 (47:55):
I played Rodney that his hands down.
Speaker 5 (48:00):
I would say at least that I've seen the most
physical football player that I've ever seen.
Speaker 3 (48:06):
He go out of his way to hit someone.
Speaker 6 (48:08):
Every player he was.
Speaker 4 (48:10):
He taped the wrists up to the elbow, so you
already know like from here he had to take old school.
Speaker 3 (48:17):
He used to use that form too all.
Speaker 6 (48:19):
The time time. But that's how hard he hit me.
I'm talking about a young he should be.
Speaker 2 (48:25):
He definitely should be.
Speaker 4 (48:27):
And my best moment was it was Opening day versus
the Cowboys had two hundred and one yards, So that's
one of the best moments.
Speaker 1 (48:41):
Man, that's a good day, great day. You guys have
not only defied the odds man and done that at
a high level, but you made the one of the
toughest transitions of them all, and you know, having prosperous
careers and everything that you guys are doing. So I
think that just speaks to man, just who you guys are,
(49:04):
the men, what the game has taught y'all the lessons,
and you've kind of embraced it all and staying here today.
Speaker 4 (49:13):
You know what I'm saying, Well, we want to say
we look accessful. That's what I want to say. I
know everybody here want to say, we love you. We
love everything that you brought to this town, this facility,
this game, this team, and you know how we did it.
Back in Philly, that where the relationship was built and
that's where it started. And once I walked through the door,
I never forget walking through the door and seeing him.
(49:35):
His eyes lightened up and mind lit up. It was
like here we go again, right, just trying to just
create that energy all over again. But I want to
say I love you, man. And you know it's funny
because I said this in the meeting. As men, we
don't get a chance to tell another man that we
love them without them saying something crazy.
Speaker 6 (49:53):
But let me just tell you what that means.
Speaker 4 (49:54):
That simply means I care about your well being and
what happens to you.
Speaker 6 (49:58):
So I love you. Whatever you need for me, whenever
you need it, you call me. Gotcha love no doubt you.
I love you too.
Speaker 5 (50:05):
I love you too, Rob Man. I'm truly gonna miss you.
I talked about it, you know, in front of the
players last week, and you know, having you around and
having been around you in the last three years, you know,
every coach wants a Rodney McLeod in the room. Hopefully
we have somebody that will step up next year, but
(50:27):
it is we're gonna miss you. I'm going to miss you.
We've had a lot of good moments, man. I do
appreciate you. Yeah, great person, great leader. You'll figure it out.
Figure out what you want to do. I appreciate you both,
love man, love.
Speaker 2 (50:42):
You, yeah, and I love what you represent. Man, got
my son here, he's observing what we're doing right now,
and this is a great life lesson teaching moments for him,
just to hear about what you are and who you
are and what you've accomplished. And I've told you this
on several occasions, just again of how amazing and what
you've accomplished is and how you should be proud of
that and you should man, because again, to walk out
(51:05):
on your own terms. I can tell you stories of
driving a car with Tom Brady and us having conversations
about Joe Montana getting cut because we both grew up
in the Bay Area and how amazing it is if
someone could walk down on their own terms. And you've done.
Speaker 1 (51:19):
That, man, respect, respect, love, I said it, fell listen,
appreciate it. I'm gonna see y'all on this next act
man now.
Speaker 3 (51:31):
But I love I can show you on ESPN.
Speaker 1 (51:34):
Yeah, for sure, we're gonna see We're gonna see what
we're gonna see.
Speaker 6 (51:38):
See them in the building.
Speaker 1 (51:39):
You can come back and visit, come back and visit
with coach.
Speaker 6 (51:42):
But yeah, I'm make a visit.
Speaker 1 (51:45):
Yeah, well that's another episode of The Dolls. On the podcast,
we appreciate our amazing guests UH for sharing their journey,
ask former players and talking about their transition into their
next act. They're still leaving the impact, still doing it big.
As you guys know. This is my last act and
(52:06):
we'll see what's next, So stay tuned for another The
Dolls Only podcast is O. G Rod signing out with peace,
love and happiness.
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