Draft Season | Combine Preview

John Schmeelk and Tony Pauline preview the 2025 NFL Combine.

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Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:03):
It's now officially open. This is Draft season. Hello everybody.
I am John Schmolke, Who's always are joined by Tony
Pauline from sports Kita. Draft Seasons presented by Moody's, a
proud partner of the New York Giants, uniting the brightest
minds to turn today's risks into tomorrow's opportunities. Learn more

(00:23):
at moodys dot com. Tony, uh, we recorded this last week.
People are seeing this. It's airing on the Monday of
the week the combine begins. We're both probably right now
on a plane to Indianapolis, or at least I'm not
sure when you're getting there. I'm getting their Monday afternoon,
so I'm probably rude. You're probably packing your bags to

(00:43):
leave for Indy. And then the fun all begins of
coaches and Joe managers talking Tuesday and Wednesday. Then the
players start cooking on Wednesday, Thursday, Friday, and then they
work out over the weekend. Combine is always a lot
of fun. Tony can't wait to see out there.

Speaker 2 (00:57):
I'll be there Tuesday evening. It's fun. It's a lot
different than when I when I first went to tho One.
Believe me, it's it's a media and fan circus where
when I started going twenty five years ago, it was
like a KGB event the way it was locked down.
And yeah, it's it's definitely different. It's definitely a changed

(01:18):
especially you know with the fans in there and they're
screaming and yelling for the cult fans in there when
screaming young because they want a quarterback or they want
a specific quarterback and say, if you're worthy. Last year
once the four and one nine and a place of
rupts like you scored the game winning touchdown. So it's fun.
It's completely different from what I've been used to in
the past.

Speaker 1 (01:35):
Well, luckily Tony Will had used this CIA skills to
weasel's way in there twenty five years, you know, to
kind of get this whole thing started for him. And look,
it's even different than I was there for I started.
I think twenty eleven twenty twelve was was my first
combine and that's when they had radio row literally in
the atrium where we walked into the stadium and there
were maybe ten or twelve tables there. We were the

(01:56):
only NFL team that was there for a few years.
And now it's a the entire room of the convention
center where you probably have what fifty radio road tables
in that room, you have all thirty two teams, then
probably another twenty to twenty five radio stations and TV
stations and podcasts and everything else. So it's big now, man,
And look, it's it's it's kind of like an NFL convention.

(02:16):
Everyone in the NFL is there. Not all the coaches,
but most of the coaches, all the general manager, all
the scouts. And this is a time of year, Tony.
Not only when people examine these draft picks and talk
to them and you know, watch them perform on the
field and they talk at the podium, there is also
a lot of business has done behind the scenes by
these NFL teams with free agency only a couple of

(02:37):
weeks away.

Speaker 2 (02:38):
I mean, the senior ball is where talks of free
agency begin, just tep it talks. But the combine has
always been the unofficial start of free agency because you know,
they'll never they'll never say this publicly, but they talk money,
they talk terms, they talk you know, what you want,

(03:00):
what we're willing to give. So and also, like I
said last week when we did the mock draft, you know,
we'll get a clearer picture on what Tennessee wants to
do and if there are any takers for that top spot.
So you get a lot of news like that. You know,
it's kind of funny you talk about radio row because
the first Combine I went to in two thousand and one,
there was no media center. I mean I walked out

(03:23):
of the workouts very gingerly for some obvious reasons. And
you would have the John Clayton's, the Chris Wartonson's of
the world who were standing outside the workouts with their
NOE pads and their battery operated recording devices I mean
regular batteries because you couldn't charge them up on a

(03:45):
UBS the UBS device. And wow, wow, how that has
changed absolutely.

Speaker 1 (03:51):
All right, Tony give me the uh, we're gonna go
position my position here, but before we do, Tony, give
me your top three to five things you're looking forward
to seeing at the Combine this year.

Speaker 2 (04:04):
Obviously, I want to see Door Sanders if he throws
the ball, because you know, like John said, we're doing
this before. We're doing this a week and a half,
more than a week and a half before the players
actually take to the field, so we don't know if
these guys are going to work out. Want to watch
the door Sanders. Want to see how his uh, you know,
his throwing technique, because that's something we'll talk about. His

(04:27):
throwing techniques is throwing fundamentals are just not good on film.
Let me just pull my list up here real quick.
The Travis Hunter does he run? How fast does he run?
You know everyone's talking about Travis Hunter is this generational talent.
He doesn't look like a four to three guy, and
you know, you would expect somebody it's going to go

(04:48):
that early in a draft, play the play the receiver
and the cornerback position, you know, to run super fast.
The other thing about Travis Hunter is he's already been
announced that he's gonna work out with the cornerbacks. What
receiver drills do they have him do? Because at the
comumbine there's always things called alternate position drills, and anybody

(05:09):
watching the show and watches the combine knows that they'll
have the defensive line workout, and the defensive line and
go through that workout, and then they'll have the defensive
line and go through coverage drills. Basically drop off the
line of scrimmage and try and kiss the ball as
though they were simulating his own blitz. What are they
going to do with Travis Hunter if he works out
about getting him receiver work? You know during the cornerback drills,

(05:31):
is he going to stay on the field? Is he
going to be asked to run routes? Mike Santas drill
did that last year, not the cornerback position, but at
his pro day workout and was phenomenal. You know, what
are the arm length of Kelvin Banks? We talk about
Kevin Banks? Is he a guard? Is he a tackle?
Kelvin Banks wasn't at the Senior ball say where Josh

(05:52):
Connolly was say the way membo member of Missouri was,
So we don't know what Kelvin Bank's arm length is,
which is going to be right, Well, there you go,
you beat me too. Same thing with Will Campbell. I
mean people are talking about Will Campbell having these short arms.
I've not heard that. And again let's go back a
couple of years ago when we were doing the show,
I was constantly, you know, talking about Peter Skronsky of

(06:14):
Northwestern having short arms which was gonna push him from
tackle to guard. I've heard it on the outside, but
No one on the inside has talked about Will Campbell's
short arms. You know you're gonna want to see Campbell
have arms. I would prefer thirty five and a half inches.
Some people are okay with the tackle having arms that
are thirty three inches if they're under thirty thirty three inches,

(06:37):
if they're thirty two and a half or something like that,
you know, it's gonna be a big red flag for
him being a tackle on Sunday.

Speaker 1 (06:44):
Yeah, if he can get the thirty four, he'll be fine.

Speaker 2 (06:46):
That to me is kind of four. Thirty four is
absolutely fine, There's no doubt about it. But there are
some teams that will be okay because of his length
with the you know, thirty three thirty three and a
half that would.

Speaker 1 (06:56):
Be interesting to see. I remember, you know, for the
giant fans that are watching this, you remember the old
Justin Pew debates from gosh, more than ten years ago now,
where I think he was like thirty three and an
eighth and it was like, ah, he's too short to
play tackle, he has to play guard. So this is
a debate that rages on forever. All right, let's go
position by position here, Tony, you kind of mentioned there
ready with the quarterbacks. Cam Ward spoke at some type

(07:18):
of award thing that he accepted the other day last week,
and he said he doesn't know if he's throwing yet.
You mentioned Shdor Sanders. I'm assuming everyone else is probably
gonna throw. That's healthy because you know they're trying to
move up, get into that first round with this quarterback.
But it's always fun, you know, to see how the
ball comes out of these guys' hands, back to back

(07:39):
next to each other in their group.

Speaker 2 (07:40):
You know. Yeah, and you want to see a guy
like Jalen Milroe, what is his accuracy like downfield? Because
Jalen milgrow the passes on film were all over the place,
and as you mentioned in our Senior Ball review, he
didn't even throw the ball downfield in bobile. It looked
like he was a little bit timid, and really, Jalen
Milroe has seemed to lose a lot of confidence in hissing.
So you know, you want to watch that same thing

(08:02):
with the Riley Leonard, I mean, not Tree Dame. How
accurate is he down the field? You look at Jackson's
dart and Dylan Gabriel, what are their deep passes like?
Can they get the deep passed downfield with speed. I
think when you look at Queeneewers, I think when you
look at Colin mccordy, even when you look at Syracuse,
Will Howard of Ohio State, they've got big arms. They

(08:23):
can get the ball out field. They're relatively accurate. Their
issue is they don't they they're they're slow moving their
heads from the primary target. Sometimes Queenewers is a bit
late pulling the trigger at times. There's no way to
calculate that or basically to give a grade on that.
During combine workouts where they're throwing in a design route

(08:44):
to a specific receiver with no defender there, and also.

Speaker 1 (08:47):
A receiver they they've never thrown do before either. So
there are a lot of things that take into consideration
when you're figuring out the.

Speaker 2 (08:53):
Actions, and that's how you go. You know, that's where
usually the best I don't see the winner, but the
best quarterback workouts from the combine comp it's the guys
that show the timing, the guys that show the accuracy
on the field that they've never played on before. Most
of them anyway, throwing to receivers that they've met maybe
twenty four hours ago. So there have been some workouts

(09:15):
like that where guy just blows it away because he's
so accurate. The timing's on the deep outs, which is
probably the most important fast during combine workout. He drops
it in the bucket in the receiver's hands. Those are
the things to look for.

Speaker 1 (09:27):
All right, Let's go to the pass catchers, Tony and look,
I have not unless it's something else on the quarterbacks
you want to hit. I have not heard anything. I
don't know anything. But my guess is going to be
that Shadoor and Travis Hunter are going to want to
do Pro Day only, and that's what they're going to do.
It just seems like something you know, you want to
you know, Colorado. Deon gets a lot of people to

(09:49):
come to Colorado right to go to the Pro Day.
He gets to advertise the program and things like that.
That's just the gut feeling that I have. We'll see,
But I think what Travis Hunter runs is important, right
and I think what he weighs in at you know,
is he five eleven, one hundred eighty pounds? Is he
five ten, one hundred eighty pounds? What is he going
to measure? I think that's going to be important and
to your point that you made earlier, I thought it

(10:10):
was a good one. You know, five eleven, one hundred
and eighty five pound wide receivers that run four four
eighths are generally not top five picks, nor cornerbacks at
that size and speed or top five picks. So you know,
on tape you do see him turn the jets on
sometimes when I was watching him, He's one of the
guys I watched last week on my week off, and
some of the times I'm looking, I'm like, is he

(10:30):
really running full speed? Watching him on tape? But then
I'm like, wait a second, he's also playing like one
hundred and sixty plays a game, so like, can you
expect them to run full speed all the time? So
I'm with you, I'm very curious to see how fast
Hunter is when he does eventually run his forty and
again that's.

Speaker 2 (10:45):
Why, in my opinion, he's not a generational type talent.
I would say, I would argue that Tech McMillan is
the best receiver in this draft, but maybe Travis Hunter
is the best better athlete. I mean, Tech McMillan, is
he going to run? Because is he going to do
any testing at all, He'll probably do the vertical jump
because he looks like a guy that can jump through

(11:06):
the roof.

Speaker 1 (11:09):
Gosh, yeah, that guy can jump. Oh my goodness, he
goes up against the ball. He's unbelievable.

Speaker 2 (11:14):
Ditto for McMillan as well. And I mean, but McMillan,
what type of testing is he going to do? Is
he going to do any type of testing? Because we've
seen in recent years where a lot of these guys
just won't do any testing. If he's getting good information
tech McMillan that he's going to be a top eight pick,
he may just say, you know, what, the hell with it,
I'm not going to run the forty between now.

Speaker 1 (11:36):
I think he's a sub four or five guy.

Speaker 2 (11:37):
Tony on film though on film he looks like a
four five five four five two guy, But he makes
up for it by the fact that he's just a
dominant receiver. You know what. He may not be sub
four five foot speed, but he's like a four to
two in his head because he knows what's going on

(11:58):
in the field. He's very he's clairvoyant, and he's on
the Saint Page as his quarterback, even though his quarterback
wasn't that well. He knows how to come back, he
knows how it seems to know how to read the defenses,
find the sawt spot in the defense. So I think
with him is it's just incredible natural pass catching skills
and he's got it going on between the ears.

Speaker 1 (12:18):
And I think his wingspan and arm length and standing
reach and all that sort of stuff will be important too,
right because he's got such a big frame. You know,
you think of T Higgins and when I watch him,
I think of like really good T Higgins type of receiver,
So I think that'll be interesting to see too. I
also think for a guy like Luthor Burden Tony, for
a guy that is not polished as a wide receiver
in terms of being a route runner, he better test

(12:40):
really well because if he's going to be relied upon
as a run after, catch yat guy, you have to
be a really good athlete in order to be that
type of player, unless you're a two hundred and thirty
pound wide receiver like Deebo Samuel is, and that's not
what Luther Burdon is. He's not two hundred thirty pounds,
So I think how he tests is going to be
important for his draft stock too.

Speaker 2 (12:57):
And we may not find until he come out with
the master goal. What Burden is. It's also that ten
yard split, not just the forty time, it's a ten
yard split because the ten yard split there for is
that initial quickness which is not just important getting off
the line of scrimmage, but it's super important, you know,
transitioning from catching the ball to running after the catch. Uh,

(13:17):
you're gonna help me with his name here to get
to the Giant, the receiver the Giants drafted from Kentucky
a couple of years ago. He was I mean, he
is super quick when the balls in his hands. That's
what you got to see from Burden.

Speaker 1 (13:30):
No, I'm with you one hundred percent. And then Tony,
you have the battle for who the next wide receiver is,
right Mecca Agbuka, Matthew Golden, Isaiah Bond. I think is
going to run really fast. He might be the fastest
wide receiver there, the big Stanford kid iomanor We'll see
how he runs. If he could put a good time together,
that I'll help his stock a lot. So I think

(13:50):
then there's a fierce competition for who that next receiver
off the board is gonna be yeah, and I don't see.

Speaker 2 (13:55):
Obviously, the talks would be are any of these guys
going to be Tavior worthy and there And the next
question is how many of these guys can broach the
low four threes? You know, possibly get on a four
three And I don't really see you know, teds Johnson
maybe of Oregon. But you're right, I mean when you
when you look at the guys, Buca, I think is

(14:16):
maybe a mid four four guy I am manor. I
mean he's not as slow as McMillan, but he's not
a burner. I mean Jalen Noah, the kid from Iowa State.
I would expect him to put it laid down a
pretty fast time.

Speaker 1 (14:32):
But there is he is a shot at a high
four threes, like a four three eight, four three nine.
I think nol base of what I saw at senior ball,
I think Noel is a shot.

Speaker 2 (14:42):
And I agree your Bond's going to be pretty quick.
But the question with Bond is how does he catch
the ball? Because when I did my film mark which
I just finished on the SCC, Bond as a receiver
needs a lot of work on his game, all right.

Speaker 1 (14:55):
And then one of the guy I want to bring
up to you because I know he's he's a really
good player. He's a really good wide receiver. But what
is Zevir Restreppo gonna run, Tony? You know, can he
hit four or five two? Or is he gonna be
like a four five eight four five nine guy? I
think there is a there are levels to this where
how fast or slow is is he going to run?

Speaker 2 (15:14):
Yeah, I think he's going to be more than mid
four fives. But again with Rispeestro, you want to look
at the three cone and you want to look at
the short shuttle because you know his mo o. His
his strength is not straight line speed. It's the ability
to move latterly with quickness and separate from the defenders.
And a lot of that latteral quickness will be told

(15:37):
through the three cone and through the short shuttle.

Speaker 1 (15:39):
Tony, I'm with you. All right, Let's go to tight end.
Un listen to the wide receiver you want to bring
up there? Nope, all right, tight end, here we go.

Speaker 2 (15:45):
I let you love one of the guys, Corey Brooks
of Louisville, who I like a lot. He has a
lot riding on the line with his forty times because
scouts say in the mid four fours. I'm told it's
the mid four fives. If he runs in the mid
four fives, he's going to drop.

Speaker 1 (16:04):
He was good at the Shrine Bowl. He was one
of the better wide receivers down there. So someone to
make note of, all, right, tight end position, Tony, And Look,
this is such a strong class here that I think
testing is going to be really important because tight end
has become a testing position, right. Teams like the draft
really big, strong, fast athletes, explosive athletes, and then trade

(16:25):
him to play tight end. That's kind of where a
lot of guys have had success. And there are a
lot of talented guys here and I think they're kind
of bunched together a lot to be honest with you too.
So how players test could really, I think impact where
they get picked in this draft.

Speaker 2 (16:38):
Well, I think you got kind of two groups in
the sense that you got Loveland and Warren, who are
not going to be as fast as a Royal Gatson.
I would expect a Royal and Gatson to put down
some pretty fast times.

Speaker 1 (16:50):
You think they'll be that much faster than Loveland?

Speaker 2 (16:52):
Huh, Yeah, I think they're going to be mid to
low four fives. I mean, you see it Loveland. Loveland's fast,
but I think the other guys are really fast for
the tight end position. You know. The thing about Warren
is I'm told that Warren is gonna test really well
in everything other than the forty. And what's gonna happen
is is Warren will probably run in the mid four
sevens and the forty maybe you know, in the low

(17:15):
four sevens. But he's gonna jump. He's gonna vertical jump
really well, and he's gonna broad really well. And you
can read into that any way you want. But I
think the you know, the narrative will be well. All
these other guys ran much faster than Tyler Warren, but
Warren did have some other good testing numbers, or supposed
to have some other good testing numbers.

Speaker 1 (17:33):
Yeah, how do you think Fan and Harrold Fan and
Junior out of bowling Greens get a test?

Speaker 2 (17:39):
I mean, what was he two and forty pounds at
the Senior Bowl? Maybe a hair too. I mean, to me,
on film, he looks like a mid a low four
to six guy. He doesn't look like he's gonna be
super fast.

Speaker 1 (17:50):
Curious to see how Terrence Ferguson tests and gunner Helm.
Those are two guys that I think showed to be
good wide receivers. I don't know, you know, if they're
gonna break four seven, those guys something to keep an
eye on. Those are the guys that kind of interest me.
There anyone else a tight end, Tony tight end?

Speaker 2 (18:06):
No, I mean well, I mean Thomas Vedoni of Nebraska
who we saw at the Senior Bowl. Very interesting prospect.
You mentioned gunner Helm. I'm looking for the kid from
the Simon kid from South Carolina who looks like he's
a real good athlete, just just not a really big guy.
We saw him at the Senior Bowl as well.

Speaker 1 (18:28):
All right, Tony, let's go to offensive tackle or offensive line.
And you know, you kind of mentioned this in my
first question to You'm like, you know, what guys can
stick a tackle? What guys have to move into guard.
The good news is that we've gotten measurements on most
of these guys from the Senior Bowl. Right There's only
I think two guys at the top of the class
that we are three that we don't really have good

(18:48):
measurements on, and that's Josh Emmons out of Ohio State.
Will Campbell out of LSU, and then we talk about
Kelvin Banks and time.

Speaker 2 (18:56):
Trust that happened to be your top three guys depending
on your board, probably your top three stop three offensive linemen.

Speaker 1 (19:03):
Right, correct? So how those while we have measurements for
like everybody else that like the first three rounds, those
are the three guys that like were anxiously willing to say,
can they get the thirty three and a half inches?
Can they get the thirty four inch arms? When they
get measured?

Speaker 2 (19:16):
Well, let me just pull up. I got a little
chart here and I will look it up as we are.
But I believe Simon was measured in the preseason where
Campbell and Banks were. And when I say measured, and
here we go, if you just want to bear with
me for a.

Speaker 1 (19:33):
Second, Simmons got measured preseason by Ohio State.

Speaker 2 (19:36):
Simmon. No, I'm I am incorrect about that. I thought
he was, but I'm looking at my list now. So no,
none of the three of them, none of them were
measured preseason. So you're, yeah, you're right to go with
your initial thought. None of these three guys, we don't
have our measurements on them. We don't have length, which

(19:57):
is also going to be important for Kelvin Banks. He
six foot four, A lot of people don't think it's
gonna even be six foot four, and that will be
a determining factor, especially with Will Campbell. I mean, because
everybody expects Will Campbell will be the first offensive lineman
off the board. People have been projecting him as a
guard throughout most of this throughout most of the season.
I disagree with that, but it is it is vitally important.

Speaker 1 (20:20):
And then a couple of guards Tony that they were
not at the Senior Bowl to shrine balls. We did
not get measurements on them. Is Tyler Booker, the guard
out of Alabama could be the first straight up guard
taken in this draft, if you know, not a guy
that moves from tackle to guard. And then Donovan Jackson
of Ohio State another guy that we don't have measurements
on in terms of arm length. So those are two

(20:41):
guys I'm curious to see when they get on the
scales and they put the tape measure on those two
guys what they end up being.

Speaker 2 (20:47):
Well, I think the thing with Booker the scale that's
important for Booker as it's going to be for the
tackle from Texas Cameron Williams. But that is going to
be the big issue with Booker. You know, how much
does he way does if he tests? What is testing
numbers like that at that weight, because you know, as

(21:08):
we've seen, sometimes guys can be a little bit too big. Now,
if you want to hear, Donovan Jackson coming into the
season was measured at just under thirty four and a
half inch arms and hands that were over ten inches.
So the arm lengths is going to be a problem.
Probably one of the reasons why he did such a
good job when they kicked him out to left tackle

(21:29):
because he's got longer arms.

Speaker 1 (21:30):
Yeah, and if he tests well enough, that team might say, hey,
we're going to try and to tackle, you know, and
if he moves well enough, they think he's got the
feet for something to keep an eye on. Certainly, any
other offensive lineman that you kind of have circled that
we did not get measurements at, or you don't have
measurements for from Shrine or Senior or your sources that
you think this could be very important for.

Speaker 2 (21:50):
Well, it's not just measurement's Gray's Abel the kid from
North Dakota State. How does he test? I mean he's
got a lot of momentum going in his way in
his for himself, how is he going to do? Drew
Kendall out of Boston College. Really not a lot of
information on him. Drew Kendall, the center who was initially
entered the transfer portortal then decided to enter the draft.

(22:12):
I think what's also going to be interesting, although it's
not as prominent as it was at the shrine or
senior ball, is when they do drills, how many of
these guys did they ask to snap the ball? You know,
because there's really not a lot of talent at the
center position. Some of your better centers are going to
be guards, even tackles who are kicked into the center position.
So when they're doing drills, watch for some of those

(22:34):
college guards, maybe even tackles that all of a sudden
are standing over the ball, snapping the ball and simulating
playing center, because that's going to mean that teams believe
these guys have center potential at the next level.

Speaker 1 (22:48):
Drew Kendall, son of Pete Kendall, former NFL offensive lineman. Yeah,
those are most of the names for me. A couple
of small school guys. We got to see how that
you know we're not at senior in shrine. How they
measure you? Guy, Charles Grant is one of them, right
from William and Mary. So those a couple of small
school guys too, will keep an eye on there. All right,
let's got running back Tony. And this is more of

(23:09):
a basic question for running back. Is forty times still
a big deal for these scouts and evaluators at the
running back position. I've seen so many running backs that
don't necessarily test well in the forty they end up
being great backs. How essential is that these days for
running backs to have good forty times?

Speaker 2 (23:26):
More important is do they meet or exceed expectations? Okay,
so Ashton Genty, if scouts expect him to run a
four four eight and he runs a four to six
to two, that's problem. I mean, you know, Ashton Genty
is a great running back. He was outstanding in the
in the Mount West Conference. It's not oh, it's not

(23:49):
super important, but you want to, you know, meet expectations,
if not exceed them. You know, we have Bruce Feldman
on for our show every year, right, and I always
ask Bruce Welbyn does his article on his top one
hundred freaks, does he think it impacts a player's decision
to work out before the draft, because if he's like Bruce,

(24:12):
if he's one of Bruce's top ten athletic freaks and
he's got all these expectations that he's going to do
all these outstandings. You know, he's going to run like
the wind, and he's going to run a great three cone,
and you know he's going to jump through the roof,
and that's what the expectations are. Players sometimes will pull back.
It's not super important, but it is important that you

(24:34):
meet the expectations, if not exceed them, that scouts have
of you.

Speaker 1 (24:37):
I'm with you, what running backs do you think are
going to maybe exceed expectations and put up really good
forty times from some of the top guys in this group, I.

Speaker 2 (24:45):
Think on Marion Hampton, you want to see what he's weighs.
He's expected to be about two hundred and fifteen pounds.
How fast does he run? Because he looks like a
pretty fast guy on film. So if he's two hundred
fifteen pounds and he can run in the mid four fours,
which is expected, I mean that is that's going to
be important for him. Kyle Minaghy out of Rutgers, a

(25:06):
real good back, but he's only two hundred and five pounds.
He doesn't look super fast. I mean him not running
a decent time. Decent time being in the low five,
low four fives, high four to eighth high four fours
like four four eight that could negative negatively impact his
draft stock. You know one of your favorite guys, DJ Harvey,

(25:27):
how fast is he? Because he's not the biggest running
back in the world, he's super quick. I mean he
beats you with quickness. He beats you a great footwork,
he sets up defenders and he makes a miss. He
shows the ability on film to run the daylight? Is
he fast enough? What does he time well enough at
least to run the daylight? Raheem Sanders. You know he's
not a fast gut on film he had a real

(25:48):
good season, moved up draft boards. But you want to see,
you know, you want to see what his forty time is.
You want to see what his ten split is. And
a guy like Sanders, you want to see what his
three cone is as well, especially those bigger backs who
sometimes have difficulty changing direction cutting back against the grain.

Speaker 1 (26:04):
I want to see what Devin Neil runs Tony, He's
super productive. I want to see how fast he is.
Caleb Johnson out of Iowa another guy, how fast is he?
And then a guy that if he runs well. And
I don't think expectations for cam Skataboo are very high.
I think people are thinking, you know, low four fives.
You know, I have rather high four fives, you know,
low four six, this type of area. But if he

(26:26):
could put a good time together with his physicality, pass catching,
ability to break tackles, he could move up into the
second round, you know, late first round. To me, if
he puts a really good forty time on the board.

Speaker 2 (26:37):
Yeah, And I think with Scatibow, you got to look
more towards the three cone and you got to look
more towards the show. He is what he is running
straight ahead. I mean, he is a guy who seems
to invite contact. He seems to be a guy who
really enjoys doling out the punishment. But when you watch
him on film, he loses a lot of momentum trying

(26:58):
to come back. He has to get himself oftentimes he's
off balance. So I think for Scattabot, you hit it
right on the hammer he's a low four to six guy.
I mean, he's not a guy that's gonna beat defenders
into daylight with foot speed, or beat him into the
open field with foot speed, or run the daylight. I
think for him the big thing is how does he
do in those agility tests, because you know, cutting back

(27:19):
against the grain, changing the angle of his runs seems
to be a problem for him on film.

Speaker 1 (27:25):
How's your gout, Jordan James gonna run Tony, he's one
of your favorites. How do you think he's gonna do?

Speaker 2 (27:30):
Very explosive. I'd be surprised if he's slower than a
four five one four five two. But he's just a
guy who is super explosive on film.

Speaker 1 (27:39):
Anyone else on offense that you want to touch on
Tony before we jump over to the defensive side of the.

Speaker 2 (27:43):
Ball, Trevor at m I mean of Georgia, who's you know,
entered the draft off of somewhat disappointing season. But you
watch the film, he looks fast, he's got the first
you know, maybe he's not a low four to four guy,
but that ten split should be very you know, very explosive.
And again the agilities, the three cone the short shuttle.

(28:04):
You would expect good times. Trivia ten needs good times
because that's his game. His game is cutting back against
the grain. His game is altering at angles of runs
multiple times during a single carry.

Speaker 1 (28:17):
Draft season is presented by Moody. He's a proud partner
of the New York Giants. Decode Risk, Unlock Opportunity. Learn
more at moodys dot com. All right, let's go to defense, Tony.
Let's go to the defensive line. You could take it.
Do you want to go defensive end? First, defensive tackle?
What do you want to do?

Speaker 2 (28:32):
Let's combine them, all right?

Speaker 1 (28:34):
Talk to me. Who are you keeping an eye on here?

Speaker 2 (28:36):
Well, you know, Mikhael Williams, he's a speed rusher. He's
gonna have to test very well. He's not the biggest
guy in the world. Kenneth Grant, I'm excited to see.
I mean, he looks very athletic on film. Did the
numbers match the athleticism on film? And you know, a
big defensive tackle as we've seen, you want to get
close to that five five second flat number, if not

(29:01):
quicker than that. You know, you want to see what
does Kenneth Grant weigh in at how fast is he?
How athletic is he? And again with these guys, it's more,
you know, the ten split with the big guys than
it is the forty times, But the forty time is
a measure of athleticism. Tih Leek Williams, I mean, is
he three hundred and twenty pounds? Is he hire more
than three twenty pounds? How is he testing? He was

(29:23):
expected to be about three hundred twenty three hundred and
twenty two pounds in the offseason. A guy who's gonna
get under five to two, which is an outstanding number.
Landon Jackson, I mean again, two hundred and seventy two,
almost two hundred and eighty pounds, How fast? How athletic
is he? You look at Derek Harmon, what is he
going to weigh in up? Because he was not at
the Senior Bowl. Nick Scalurton, who spoke about during our

(29:46):
mock first round draft the show, what is he weigh
in at versus what he's testing? And of course Michael
Green as well.

Speaker 1 (29:55):
Yeah, look, I want to see how will MIKEL. Williams
test Tony Is I gotta be honest with you, Where
I watch him on, I don't see like a super explosive,
twitchy guy. I want to see how he moves and test.
That to me is important. And you're talking about guys
that I think are trying to prove something and improve
their stock from doubts. I think two guys that are

(30:15):
undersized defensive tackles, Walter Nolan out of Ole, miss and TJ.
Sanders out of South Carolina. They're both two hundred and
eighty something pound defensive tackles. If you're gonna be a
two hundred and eighty something pound defensive tackle, you better
look really athletic. You better move. Those guys better test
really well, or I think the red flag about their

(30:36):
size will go up. The flag bowle just a little
bit more.

Speaker 2 (30:40):
And Sanders on film looks athletic guy. Sanders is a
guy who on film he will chase the action down
field and catch plays. I agree with you. I mean,
you don't see Walter Nolan's showing the ability to get
out in space, move out, laddering and pursue pursue the action.
You know, Dion Walker. I mean we saw him at
the Senior Bawl. I thought it was a complete dud.

(31:00):
I thought it was what he was really overweighting, out
of shape? Does he tested the combine? And how does
he tested the combine? Ashton Gillette of Louisville, It's going
to be an interesting guy to watch. Not expected to
run all that fast, low four eights high four to seven.
So he's two hundred and seventy five pounds and if
he doesn't test well, but you watch the film where

(31:22):
he's just an explosive defensive lineman, you know where is
he going to go? And what position is he going
to play? Is the defensive end? Is he a three
technique tackle? So I think Jelattie, I keep saying Gillette,
Ashton Gelott is going to be an interesting guy to
watch as far as his testing is concerned.

Speaker 1 (31:40):
Yeah, and that might determine where they want to play
him too, Right? Is he an end? Is he a tackle?

Speaker 2 (31:44):
Like?

Speaker 1 (31:44):
Where do you put him on that defense? In front?
I'm with you. I think Dion Walker and how he
moves and tests, how in shape does he look to be?
Quite frankly, when they do the measuring and all that
sort of stuff, I think that's going to be a
big deal. Yeah, I'm with you. And look, it's a
good group and this is kind of where guys can
try to separate themselves. No one's taking any more snaps,
no one's playing any more games, there's no more All

(32:06):
Star games. So so many of these guys are gonna
be packed in Tony from pick like fifteen to fifty
on the defensive line, fifteen to sixty, fifteen to seventy.
This is an opportunity for all these guys to try
to separate themselves at least a little bit with how
they measure and how they test.

Speaker 2 (32:21):
Yeah, and again, you know, how are these if are
these guys going to test? I mean Shamark Turner of Texas,
A and M had a story on him. He had
a fracture in a shiny played through it. They put
a put a rod in his shin. That's why he
didn't play at the Senior Bowl. Don't know if he's
gonna be able to work out. And that's a guy

(32:42):
that can impact the early portion, if not late first round,
that at least early part of day two. So it's
important to keep an eye on him.

Speaker 1 (32:51):
Yeah, and then I think Shamar Turner is the other
Samar like, he has to test great because he has.

Speaker 2 (32:57):
Literally Sjamar Stewart.

Speaker 1 (32:58):
You mean, yeah, what I say, Turner, Yeah, Stewart very
little production. So and he looks like an unbelievable athlete
on tape at his size. So he's gonna have to test,
I think, really well in order for people to be
more willing to look past that lack of production. And
then Prince vi Uman Mialen, who I thought was disappointing
at the Senior Bowl, can he tests really well to
kind of boost the stock a little bit up? All right?

Speaker 2 (33:20):
Now he is, and he just you know, go back
to what I said about expectations. He's a guy that
is expected to run in the four sixes, in the
mid four sixes, that's what they expect him to run.
So you got to watch when he tests, if he tests,
how fast does he run? Because you mentioned how he
was disappointing at the Senior Bowl. I mean, he's a
guy that has disappointed a lot throughout his career. He

(33:41):
should be much better than he is. He should be
much more productive, much more consistent, I think, is the
best way to put it. And if he goes in
and he lays ada combine he's running the mid four sevens,
that's gonna hurt him.

Speaker 1 (33:52):
Yeah, all right, let's go to the edge outside linebacker position. Here, Tony,
you have these groups combined. And again al Duel Carter,
I think the victation is that he's gonna test off
the charts. We'll see if it's Michael Parson's levels off
the chart. Jaylen Walker, I think another guy that people
expect to test extremely well. Same for James Pierce. These
are all the smaller two hundred and forty pound edge

(34:16):
players that they're not gonna go with size, They're not
gonna go with power. They're gonna have to go with athleticism.
So all three of those guys, Tony I'll throw Olo
Femi Oladjo into that makes though these two hundred and
sixty one pounds, he's bigger. These are guys they're gonna
have to test really well if they're gonna go as
high as people think in the draft.

Speaker 2 (34:35):
And again, you know, are they two forty or that
they come into two fifty. And if they come in
at two fifty, you know, how how do they test.
One thing the combine has changed is they weigh these
guys and measure these guys right before they work out,
because the.

Speaker 1 (34:51):
Old like by the way, I think that's the right
way to do it so you can get the water.
That's that's you have to do it that way.

Speaker 2 (34:57):
And I never understand how you can put on so
much water where you know you're gonna fight, you're gonna
drink five pounds. Well, I never understood it. But you know,
that's what they used to do is they would pack
on the water the drink to put on extra weight
before weigh ends, and then the workouts would be two
days later. So they so you know, to your point
about the top guys Dull Carter, Jalen Walker, James Pierce,

(35:20):
expecting to you know, blow the roof off what they're testing.
You know, how much do they weigh? Are they the
two forty as you just said, or are they a
little bit heavier. I think some of the guys that
you got to watch for forty times into testing, Kyle
Canard of South Carolina and Donovan is Rupa of Boston College.
These guys are not great athletes, but they're outstanding football players.

(35:42):
And I mean, you know, he's a zooka two hundred
and forty eight pounds. Is he going to get onto
that four to seven times? What is his ten split?
Because again, you know it's a ten split. He's not
running forty yards, he gets the quarterback. He's running, you know,
five to six yards, he gets the quarterback. Same thing
with Canard. Canard is expected to be a guy that
going to run in the four eights? Can he beat that?
He looks fast in a four to eight on film?

Speaker 1 (36:05):
And that three cone drill two for Ezraku, I think
another thing that'll be important. I'm with you on that.
Anybody else that you think might surprise from this edge
class or outside linebacker class, Tony or you think it
is very essential for how they might test out.

Speaker 2 (36:18):
Let's watch David Walker, Central Arkansas, right, a kid who
blew up the senior ball. He's got a funky bild.
Is he a one gap defensive end? Is he an
outside linebacker? How fast is he? He's got a lot
of momentum going in his direction. Tyrene Powell of Rutgers,
who's had a lot of injuries, was a favorite of mine,
you know, a couple of years ago before the injury
set in. He's supposed to be super athletic, two hundred

(36:41):
and fifty pounds running the four sixes. I don't know.
He's the guy who ruptured his achilles a year ago
and still played the season. We'll see how he does.
As far as the rest, Jasheen Davis is not there.
That is Braydon Swinson of LSU, who on film looks
like a terrific edge rusher. You know, with Swinson's six

(37:05):
three and a half two hundred and fifty pounds, how
does he test?

Speaker 1 (37:09):
All right, Let's jump over to inside linebacker Tony, a
position where you want speed and it's important. But you know,
I don't know how important testing is for this spot
where it's more about how you see things and how
fast you react.

Speaker 2 (37:21):
Well, one one kind of offsets the other, right, because
you could be a linebacker who tests in the four sevens,
but your brain is going at a four to two
and it makes up for the lack of speed as
opposed to you know, you could be a linebacker that
runs a four to four, but your brain's going at
a four eight and you're always late it to the action.
But still, you know Danny Stutsman, you want to see
him test relatively well. You want to see his sideline

(37:43):
to sideline movement. Carson Carson Schweisinger, who a lot of
people love. I think he's one of the better off
ball linebackers. What's his size and what's his speed? How
big is he and how does he move? And again
with the with the linebackers, you want to see the agility.
You want to see the three con You want to
see the short shuttle, because linebacker or off the ball linebacker,

(38:06):
you're spending often as much time going sideline to sideline
as you are going in a straight line, you know,
to the action. We didn't mention Jack Sorry. Barrett Carter,
who's kind of had an off season, is barely six
foot tall or is he six foot tall? How does
he test? Jeffrey Bassa who I like a lot undersized guy.

(38:28):
He's he a real good athlete. Cody Simon of Ohio State.
I mean, kind of forgotten in that Buckeye defense because
there's so much star talent around him. Yet he's a
guy who is one of those linebackers that his brain
is going at a four to two. How does he
test in the forty? I think he'll test relatively well.

Speaker 1 (38:47):
All right, let's go to corner Tony, a position that
I would not consider one of the strongest positions in
this draft class. So I think this is going to
be huge for that spot right. You know, we talked
about maybe some of these positions. The forty time is
not a central It's not do or die. There is
no position where speed is more important than at quarterback
and then at cornerback. Part of me you got to

(39:07):
chase wide receivers around. You can't get beat over the top.
You gotta be able to run. And I'm gonna start
with Will Johnson. Does he run? Will he run at
all during this draft process? And if he doesn't, I
think that's a red flag for him. You could have
a situation where we never see the top three corners
by a lot of rating systems. Will Johnson, Benjamin Morrison,

(39:29):
Chevon Revel, none of them might run this entire draft
process two because of injury. So I think seeing how
what Will Johnson decides to do will be huge. And
then once you get to that next group, the Johnny Barns,
the Tree amos Is, the Azuree Thomas Is, the Kobe Bryant,
the Maxwell Harristons. You know, how those guys run, I
think could go a long way in determining what order

(39:50):
they go in around two and three of this draft.

Speaker 2 (39:52):
And I think the safest one of the top three
as far as estimated testing would be Revel because he's
asked the six to two one hundred and eighty pounds
and scouts believed all along. He's a guy that's going
to go under for four. Johnson Morrison probably a little
bit slower than that, although you know they're not slow,
but they're not as fast as Shaddon Revel. I mean,

(40:13):
we talked about joh Day Barron, or at least the
last show, one of the viewers asked the question about
jidd D barn going ahead of Will Johnson. How fast
is joh Day Barron? I mean that he's expected to
be a low four or five guy. Can he get
into the low four fours? You mentioned Thomas. We saw
him at the Senior Bowl six one and a half
one hundred and ninety one pounds. He's physical, he's developing,

(40:36):
ball skills looks great.

Speaker 1 (40:37):
It's like the body ty one for a corner man.

Speaker 2 (40:41):
Is he a good athlete? How fast is he? I
think he's got a lot riding on it. I'm going
to throw a name out there, Dorian Strong of Virginia Tech,
who I like a lot six foot one half inch
one hundred and eighty two has shown some good ball skills.
I don't know if his downfield speed at times his
question to me, but I'm told he's probably running the

(41:03):
four threes, So keep an eye out for that.

Speaker 1 (41:06):
All right, then, Safety Tony, you know we've seen so
many awesome safeties just not run that well. Yeah, well,
I don't know how seriously to take this. How do
you think this safety class? You know Kyle Hamilin didn't
run that well, he didn't test all that well, you
go back Simmons, didn't went to Denver, didn't didn't test
all that well.

Speaker 2 (41:24):
You kid from Alabama right now?

Speaker 1 (41:26):
Correct? So I don't know how then testing it The
safety spot is obviously they were thresholds. You don't want
to have like a four to seven safety obviously, but
you know you don't need a bunch of four to
four safeties either, and.

Speaker 2 (41:38):
I would agree with you. The interesting thing is, you know,
I think Malachi Starks, he's the number one safety. He's
the only safety that's going to go in the first round.
Go down a little good next to guys Nick Emminawari
of South Carolina, Malik verd Nevaiowa state. You want to
see their height, their weight, their measurements and how they test.

(41:58):
Are they safeties? Are they one gap linebackers? Are they
free safeties? Are they strong safeties? Are their own safeties?
So the guys af the top guys after Starks, you know,
the way the NFL is using big college safeties more
as linebackers. I think it's gonna be very interesting to
watch those numbers from those two players.

Speaker 1 (42:20):
Awesome, All right, Tony, anything else you want the fans
to know about the combine this year before we get
on a plane and head out to Indy for some
steak and some shrimp cocktail and other adult beverages in
the evening hours.

Speaker 2 (42:34):
Now, I'm a weber Grive guy. I mean everyone goes
to say almost like I like Webber Grill, although they've
kind of changed the menu not to my liking. But no,
I mean, it'll be fun. Listen, don't get all wrapped
up and everyone's gonna go crazy over the results of
the combine. Don't get wrapped up. It's just one piece
of the puzzle, you know, to as far as the

(42:56):
entire equation.

Speaker 1 (42:57):
Absolutely, but it'll be fun to see Tony out there.
We'll get our intel from everyone else that's out there
we'll have our normal shows guys. If you like the Draft,
the Big Bill kick off live and it's a giant show.
But we will have like sixteen to twenty Draft guests
over the course of the week. Tony will be one
of them talking football with us out there in Indy.
So thanks for being with us. That's Draft Season presented
by Moody is a proud partner of New York Giants.

(43:18):
For Tony Pony from sports Keta, I am John Schwelk.
We'll see you next time. Everybody,