February 11, 2025 • 50 mins
John Schmeelk and Tony Pauline rank the top 10 players in each position group of the 2025 NFL draft class.
:00 - Quarterbacks
10:45 - Running backs
15:55 - Tight ends
18:08 - Wide receivers
23:06 - Offensive line
29:01 - Defensive line
34:11 - Defensive ends
37:46 - Linebackers
43:13 - Defensive backs
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:02):
Draft is now officially open. Welcome to Draft season. I
am John Schmelke.
Speaker 2 (00:11):
It's all brought to you by Moody's, a proud partner
of the Giants, uniting the brightest minds to turn today's
risk into tomorrow's opportunities.
Speaker 1 (00:17):
Learn more at moodies dot com.
Speaker 2 (00:18):
As always, we're joined by Tony Pauline, who writes for
sports Keta on the NFL Draft, Tony, we got a
busy few weeks coming here.
Speaker 1 (00:27):
We got three weeks before the combine.
Speaker 2 (00:28):
We're gonna do our are your rather top ten ranks
at each position group this week. Next week you're gonna
have a mock draft at We'll also take some fan
questions if you want to send them to us on Twitter,
feel free, and then we're gonna have our Combine preview
and then our Combine reviews. So that'll take us through
the first week of March, and then we're like seven
weeks away from the NFL Draft, so it comes fast,
my friend.
Speaker 3 (00:49):
It does. And then right after the combine, you know,
we'll have free agency, which a lot of people will
be very excited about, but we also have Pro days.
And the pro days are crazy because you will have
three and four prod per day, five sometimes six days
a week. And what happens is the guys who didn't
work out the combine or the guys who were not
invited to combine will be working out for NFL scouts.
(01:10):
So yeah, seven weeks been, it goes fast because really
from the combine on the month of March, as far
as I'm concerned, is just the craziest time of the year,
specifically because of those crow days.
Speaker 2 (01:22):
So, Tony, I was going through your top tens and
we'll get to the specifically first, but a general question first.
I went through here, and I'm not sure if these
these grades are final yet, but you have like rounds
listed right and right now I counted twenty one guys
with first round grades. That's not inclouding your one slash
two guys. Those are just the guys that you have
a first round number on. And again that's going to change,
as Tony just said, as he finishes his scouting process.
(01:45):
Do you expect that number to decrease or increase as
you go deeper into.
Speaker 3 (01:49):
This, It'll probably increase. I mean, right since I sent
it to you, there's twenty guys to have sure first
round grades. And it's always changing because I'm always watching film.
So really, right now I'm in the middle actually through
getting through Georgia in the SECC, so that number will
change based on my views. It will change again because
(02:10):
let's say a guy like Isaiah Bond, the smaller receiver,
if he doesn't run super fast, he's gonna fall. You know,
you expect Isaiah Bond to at least get in the
under four fours. So based on some of the testing scores,
that will change. And of course the medicals. Eventually some
of these some of the stuff will come out about
these guys medicals, maybe issues that they had previously or
(02:32):
they were red flag. That's also going to change. The
character stuff. I mean, I don't expect it to change
that much. I know most of the character issues unless
somebody does something really stupid between now and the draft.
Speaker 1 (02:43):
Okay, so let's get it to it, Tony. We have
the quarterbacks first.
Speaker 2 (02:48):
You have deeper than ten here for a lot of
these position groups, which is great and it's funny the
way I categorize it, Tony. Maybe not as good as
the top is last year's class, with nobody as great
as high.
Speaker 1 (02:58):
As the Jayden Daniels and the Drake Mays and the
Caleb Williams. We've been through that before.
Speaker 2 (03:03):
But unlike last year, where after you got past the
first six guys, right, Spencer Ratler wasn't taken to a
round five. You have a good you know, seven eight
guys between rounds two and five.
Speaker 3 (03:17):
Right, it's nowhere. It's nowhere near as good at the
top of the draft. No one expects that. But there
are a good number of players after that. Some of
them have got outstanding physical skills and just need to
be coached up. Some of them don't have great physical
skills and may just need to be in the right system.
I mean, you talk about Jalen Milro, one of my
favorite guys. You watched Jaln Milroe up to that Georgia game,
(03:37):
and you look like a short fire top twelve pick.
It was all downhill for him afterwards. You mentioned last
week at the Senior Bowl how Jaln Milroll never wanted
to show off his strong arm. He kept with those
five and eight yard dump off passes, and we I
mentioned late in the season that Jalen Milroe was winning
games with its legs. So it seems to me that
Jalen Miller. Milroe has lost a lot of confidence in
(04:01):
his passing, his passing abilities. You got to get him
coached up. If you get him coached up, you know
he goes late first round. I don't think he's gonna
fall out the first round. You could have an outstanding
quarterback in your hands. Literally the same thing with quinn Ewers.
Quinn Ewers is he's got a terrific rodical arm. You know,
he's a smart, tough passer, doesn't make a lot of mistakes,
had a lot of talents around them. Just may may
(04:22):
need to play in the right system, as would Jackson Dart,
who a lot of people like Jackson Dart is a
mid first round pick. I just don't see it. I
was hoping that we see, you know, a big time
arm at the senior ball. We did not. I think
he's a Day two pick, a second round pick. But
if you put a me in timing sort of a
timing type of offense, sort of like the San Francisco
forty nine ers run, I think Jackson Dart will be
(04:42):
uh will be very successful at the next level. Then
you've got Riley, Leonard cal McCord, Will Howard Tyler, shuck.
These are guys that have got outstanding physical skills. They
all have NFL arms, but they stared down receivers. They
need help on with their accrescy. They need to improve
their accuracy in their past placement. But they have a
tremendous amount of upside. They've got good size as well.
(05:04):
So there are more guys that are developmental quarterbacks. And
if coach dright, you take them late in day two,
early in day three, really through the middle quart of
day three, you could hit a home run.
Speaker 1 (05:14):
Ah yeah, you.
Speaker 2 (05:15):
Gotta have these guys split up into tiers. I know
you didn't do this on purpose, just naturally. That's kind
of where the grades have wound up. So at the
top of your Warden Sanders, how close do you have
those guys, Tony? And do you think the consensus seems
to be right now that Ward's gonna go before Sanders?
Do you still think there's a chance that could flip
before we get the draft day or no?
Speaker 3 (05:33):
I mean I would be surprised. I reported this as
sports skied at the Senior Bowl. Actually, I think it's
from the shrine ball that the consensus was cam Warden's
gonna be the first quarterback selected and if the draft
were held right now, he would be selected by the
Tennessee Titans. You know, I like Shador Sanders. There are
some people that are very concerned about the Dion factors
something else. I reported that, you know, if Sanders doesn't
(05:55):
play well, or if he's getting sacked or something. You know,
Dion's got that bully pit, bully pulpit at the as
head coach of the University of Colorado to air the
grievances about, you know, his son not playing well, the
blame other people. That does concern some people.
Speaker 2 (06:11):
I think, by the way, Shador himself seems like a
pretty well put together, sure kid, both.
Speaker 3 (06:16):
Of the both of the Sanders kids, both of them do.
But that doesn't that's not gonna stop Dad, because Dad
from being a dad. I mean, you know, everybody wants
to protect their kids. And if Dad see something, you know, wrong,
he's going to express those or he's going to criticize it.
And we all don't have the bully pulpit that Deon
Sanders does.
Speaker 1 (06:34):
So I absolutely agree with you that I speak for yourself. Tony.
Speaker 3 (06:39):
There there you go. Uh So, I agree with you
that is something I think what's going to happen is
I think of a team if both quarterbacks are there,
a team is really going to have to like Shador
Sanders much more than cam Ward to take Shador Sanders
over cam Ward. I think if it's very close. The
vibe I'm getting right now though, is that if it's
(07:01):
very close, they're gonna lean towards Ward.
Speaker 2 (07:03):
Do you think Sanders gets out of the top six,
I'll say, because that's what the Raiders are selecting, I'd
be shocked.
Speaker 3 (07:08):
I think the Raiders are gonna have to trade up
to get a quarterback. And you know, when you look
at you got the two other kids, you got Abdul
Carter and Travis Hunter, and then it kind of drops
you off after that. I mean, you're gonna take Mason
Graham before shoot door Sanders. You're gonna take McMillan, the
receiver out of Arizona before door Sanders. I think there'll
be the opportunity for a team like the Raiders that
(07:30):
are in desperate need of a quarterback to trade up
and get Sanders if he gets past the Giant selection.
Speaker 2 (07:36):
Yeah, I'd be surprised if those weren't the force four
players taken to be honest with you, if those aren't
the first four players, Tony, I'd be surprised.
Speaker 1 (07:43):
I'm with you, all right.
Speaker 2 (07:44):
Your next group and your grades are kind of close
on these three guys. Is Miro who you mentioned? You
still think he's first round? They'll get in there, right
Quinn or a start?
Speaker 1 (07:55):
Do you think?
Speaker 2 (07:56):
How close do you think those guys are? How confident
are you that Milro's gonna be your third guy?
Speaker 1 (08:01):
Gone?
Speaker 3 (08:02):
Yeah? I think you know. The thing about Mirro is
I just as I mentioned before, the passing has seemed
to go away from him. He's got the great physical skills,
he is a high character guy. He is well liked
by everybody. He is a leader. It may be a
situation where he just needs proper coaching. I mean, Alabama
just hired Ryan Grubb, who basically developed Michael Pennix, probably
(08:25):
a year or two late. As far as Jalen Milro
is concerned, I still think with those physical skills, the
way he's going to interview, and his upside, he's the
first round pick. I also think, even though I have
a second round greade on Queen Youwers, I think Queen
Youwers could land in the bottom part of round one,
either by a team maybe the Rams, maybe the Lions
that have an aging quarterback and want to get a
(08:47):
young guy in the pipeline, or a team that moves
from the late sorry, from the early part of round
two into the late part of round one to get
a sigmal caller.
Speaker 2 (08:54):
Yeah, I was, honestly, I was surprised, Tony, because you've
been fairly critical of quin Yours over the course of
the I think maybe that was you kind of fighting
back on people that were calling him a first round
there maybe, and that was kind of the source of
where you were coming from on it.
Speaker 1 (09:06):
But I was surprised to see you have him ahead
of Dart.
Speaker 3 (09:07):
To be honest with you, Well, top ten remember they
were we were in the New York area and people
were talking about the Giants taking Queen Yours as a
top ten pick. He was never that type of player.
He never was. I think what you weres The thing
about Dart is I like him as a quarterback, just
the physical skills. We didn't see the big arm that
has been my concern about Jackson Dart. If you take
Jackson Dart, I think you're giving a lot away with
(09:30):
the vertical game because he doesn't have that vertical arm
which quin viewers does. I mean, quinn Ewers is basically
a gun slinger.
Speaker 2 (09:37):
I was surprised told you that you with Leonard ahead
of McCord and Howard. I was surprised by that given
what we saw from him over the course of the year.
Speaker 3 (09:44):
See here's the thing about McCord and Howard that really
concerns me. It concerned me on film, it concerned me
when I saw him live. They have a tendency to
stare down the primary target. Both Ohio State guys who
played the port Ohiose at one point or another. Mccordy
was really bad staring down the primary target in two
thousan in twenty three. He did improve in twenty twenty four.
Will Howard same thing. I mean, it's very slow to
(10:05):
move their head from the primary target that will kill
you on someday. They got great physical skills. I think
that Riley Leonard really improved as a passer. We talked
about that. Jim Nagy also mentioned that really through the
second half of the twenty twenty four season, didn't have
great talent around him as far as the receivers were concerned.
At times was running for his life. But he's an
(10:28):
outstanding athlete who unlike McCord and Howard, the staring down
of the quarterback, slow moving your head from the primary target,
that is a big red flag for me.
Speaker 1 (10:38):
All right, fair enough?
Speaker 2 (10:39):
And then the guys at the back end, Tyler Shook, well,
I know some people were talking about as like a
day two pick off of the Senior Bowl, which I
think you know, he was fine the Senior Bowl. I
don't think nothing blew me away. Britty Cook from his
oor sor shrine. And then Dylan Gabriel Oregon, who you
all have for his Day three picks. All right, let
you go to the running back spot here, Tony. And
just to show you how deep it is, you listed
(10:59):
ten guys and we're not even out of the third
round here, dude, Like, how about sure how many other
third rounders or you might have after these top ten,
but this is a great group.
Speaker 1 (11:08):
You have Ashton genty obviously he is the first round.
Speaker 2 (11:11):
There, three second round picks in Caleb Johnson, Amari and
Hampton and Quinn Shawn Jenkins.
Speaker 3 (11:16):
Yeah, and actually Simpson and eighteen of my last third
round picks. Then he going to the fourth round of
Kyle Managy of Rutgers, And I mean, it's just the
opposite of last year, right because we didn't see going
into the draft. We didn't figure a quarterback would be
selected before a running back would be selected before the
third round. And you had one guy that was taken
late in round two coming off of major injury. And
(11:37):
the thing about this is it's a diverse group, if
I could use that word. I mean Ashton Genty is
a three down back, terrific pass catcher out of the backfield,
can pick and choose his way on the inside, has
a speed and agility to turn the corner. Is going
to grate as a top six player in this draft.
Probably he's not going to be selected into the mid
first round because of the valuization the way they value
(12:00):
running backs. Still an outstanding player. I have Caleb Johnson
rated higher than Omarrian Hampton primarily because I think Caleb
Johnson does a couple of things. He's got more versatile game.
He can turn the corner and get around the outside
with j O'maron Hampton struggles to do. I like them both,
but I think that Caleb Johnson in the past, we've
(12:21):
seen Iowa running backs that basically go downhill and are
fast cale Johnson can do that, but he also shows
the ability to make defenders miss. He also shows a
lot of creativity in his game, also shows himself to
be a solid pass catcher of the backfield for what
was really a bad Iowa offense.
Speaker 2 (12:38):
I don't think we've talked about Amari and Hampton Tony
more than like ten seconds on this podcast over the
last four or five months. So why don't you kind
of give a fans a breakdown of what he's all
about is I'm sure not a lot of people were
locked into North Carolina football this season, especially after Drake
May left last year.
Speaker 3 (12:54):
Big, powerful guy. I have an early second round grade
on him. Grinds it out on the inside those guys
that he's rarely brought down by the first defender, rarely
brought down by a single defender. Deceptively fast too. I mean,
if there's a lane, he's gonna run in the mid
four force. He can beat defenders into the open field.
Not a real good lateral runner, not a guy that's
(13:15):
going to turn the perimeter, which Johnson can do. He's
also a decent pass catcher out of the backfield. I
think if it was twenty years ago where running backs
were really highly prioritized. I think on Marion Hampton's potentially
late a mini first round pick, but because of the
fact that you know you want versatility, you want guys
who can run on the outside, who can turn the perimeter.
(13:37):
That's why Hampton's going to be downgraded a bit.
Speaker 2 (13:39):
Then you got Jenkins. We've talked about good between the tackles. Guy,
he's not gonna run great. We talked about him by
a bunch. Jordan James, Tony, I know, guy that is
close to your heart. And these third round picks are
good players.
Speaker 3 (13:49):
Man.
Speaker 2 (13:49):
I'm going to go through the six guys and you
can pick out how whoever you want to hit on
Jordan James, Damian Martinez, Cam Scattaboo, Treviaon Henderson, Dylan Simpson,
and then Trevor Aten.
Speaker 1 (14:01):
Some good players there, man.
Speaker 3 (14:03):
You know, I'll go start with the last one atn
Hey Dn looks hit or miss. I mean, you watch
some of the games where Georgia gave him the ball
and he was the primary offensive threat, and he's he's tremendous.
I mean, he creates the yardage on the inside, sets
up defenders and makes them miss. Has the agility to
turn the corner, tremendous pass catcher out of the backfield.
(14:23):
But there are games where he's just streaky, where he
runs east west rather than turning it up the field.
Travion Henderson, I spoke at at length. I have him
as a third rounder. Maybe he goes a little bit
later because of injuries. But the guy, well you gotta
do is watch Ohio State and when they need a
big play, he basically he produced camp Scattibow. I know
a lot of people love him, how can you not
like him? Reminds me a lot of Brian Leonard, who
(14:45):
was the second round pick out of Rutgers years ago. Big,
not a big down a toll guy, but a big
guy who loves physical contact. But again, the versatility, the
inability to turn the outside, turn the corner speed. Yeah,
he's a four to six guy, and that's and as
far as I'm concerned, reduces his appeal. I love Damian
Martinez and I know that he transferred from Oregon State
(15:08):
to Miami. They had good running backs there, so he
was not the feature runner. He was a situational runner,
and that may be good because he didn't get a
lot of wear and tear last year. But he is
a guy who's two hundred and forty pounds, but he
runs like he's two hundred and fifteen pounds. He's quick,
he's elusive, he makes defenders miss, terrific pass catcher of
the backfield. Again, I have him as a third round pick.
(15:28):
He could slide a little bit later, but as far
as I'm concerned, Martinez could be one of the steals
at the running back position, depending on where he selected.
Speaker 2 (15:37):
Yeah, I'll just throw one more thing there about atm
You know, I don't know if he was banged up
at the end of the year for Georgia. He didn't
seem to have that same type of pop that I
thought we saw for maybe when he was at Florida.
But at the Senior Bowl when we saw him Tony,
he had that pop again. He had some nice burst
to his game. So I wonder if he was playing
through something at the end of the year there, which
I think would be interesting if we could find that out.
Speaker 3 (15:55):
Two up and down. But again, I mean when you
watch him at the top of his game against teams
like Auburn, games against Auburn I mean he's a one
man show.
Speaker 1 (16:04):
Yeah, all right, let's go to tight end.
Speaker 2 (16:06):
And I think it's telling that we're gonna do tight
end before we do wide receiver, given the classes. But
you have seven tight ends here and all of them
are third round are better except for one Terrence Ferguson, who,
by the way, from Oregon. We talked about him on
a Senior Bowl review. I would have him in the
third round. So I think you're looking at seven potential,
you know, top three round tight ends here. There could
be more break down this list for me. You got
(16:27):
two first rounders and leveland and Warren, and I wonder
if Elijah Royal might start getting into that conversation too.
Speaker 3 (16:34):
I struggle. I can understand it after the Senior Bowl performance,
and I think he's gonna run spectacularly well, but he's
more of a moved tight end type. I don't you know,
you're not gonna use him as a blocker. You're probably
not gonna use clos You're probably not gonna use Closton
Loveland as a blocker all that much, although we can
he can black. No, Loveland is coming off of a
shoulder injury, and as far as i'm concerned. I have
(16:56):
him reading slightly higher than Warren. And I know everybody
likes warm, but I look at Loveland. He plays faster.
I'm sure he's going to run faster. He's more of
a natural pass catcher. That's nothing against Warren, It's just
that that's the way Loveland has played the past three
years at Michigan, which is why I have him grated
slightly higher. Want to see what the testing numbers are.
(17:18):
In my opinion, the guy who is kind of being
dismissed and ignored, who I think people are going to
scout you's going to fall in love with. Who's going
to be a terrific players of Randy Gatson of Syracuse
former receiver checks in at the Shrine Bowl six two
and a half, two hundred and forty seven pounds, thirty
three and a half inch arms, hands that are almost
(17:39):
ten inches and he plays the tight end position. Why
he played the receiver position, I mean, you watched the film.
We saw him at the Shrine Bawl. Just the natural
pass catcher, bloodlines, his dad was the receiver in the NFL.
He's just got to learn to be a complete tight end.
But the upside on this guy is absolutely sensational, and
(18:01):
I think he's gonna slip after the big names, the Lovelands,
the Warrens, your Warriors, the Mason Taylor, and he's gonna
go somewhere in the third round. He's got the potential,
in my opinion, to be a dynamic number one tight
end on Sunday.
Speaker 2 (18:12):
And then you have Harold Fannon Junior with him in
the third round as alt, who we talked a lot
about with our Senior Bowl review.
Speaker 1 (18:18):
All right, let's go to the wide receiver class here, Tony.
Speaker 2 (18:21):
I'm taking a look at this list here, and this
is not the type of classes we've seen in years past,
where you know, we only have seven players here with
first or seventh round grades, which I think last year
we were over ten with first or second round games
in the wide receiver spot. So your three first round
guys will start there are Travis Hunter, Tech McMillan, and
then Luther Burden.
Speaker 3 (18:44):
I mean Hunter is gonna be highly graded because of
the fact that he's a receiver who can also play cornerback.
That's the way I view him. Maybe I'm gonna watch
more film and I'll think otherwise, But when I watched
him at cornerback. He was solid, but there were a
lot of lapses there, and lapses at the cornerback position
on Sunday could lead to ruin. He's a natural receiver
who could also you know, return kicks. Won the Heisman Trophy.
(19:07):
I like Travis Hunter, but I don't think he's the
generational talent in this draft as other players in the past.
I think, you know, he's going to come in with
a lot of hypeend's going to be Travis Hunter twenty
four to seven headed towards the draft. He's a really
good player. I don't think he's a special talent as
far as an NFL prospect is concerned. I happen to
like Tech McMillan a lot, the receiver out of Arizona.
Speaker 2 (19:29):
Let me ask a totally real quick then, if Hunter
was just a wide receiver, would you have him rated
ahead of Tech McMillan.
Speaker 3 (19:35):
No. No, I think McMillan is much more. I mean,
he's got bigger, better, big playability. But McMillan, in my opinion,
is a game dominating, game controlling receiver played on an
Arizona offense that didn't have a lot of talent. The
defense knew the ball was going in his direction. They
couldn't stop him. Long arms, big hands, very natural. Remember,
(19:58):
Travis Hunter had a a lot of good talent around him.
I mean we saw three receivers and Shepherd, Jonte, and
Horn produced at the Shrine Bowl and they played very
well all three days at the Shrine Ball. I mean
in Arizona, McMillan was basically by himself and he didn't
have shudor Sanders draw on them the ball. Yet. He
(20:19):
was a dominant receiver the past two years. He's not
going to run super fast. I don't know that he's
going to test off the charts as far as the
three cone and the short shut and things like that.
He's just a big bodied, natural receiver who I think
is going to be a dominant game controller and also
a tremendous red zone threat.
Speaker 2 (20:38):
How about Burden, He was the guy that was talked
about as a top ten pick heading into the year.
He had a bit of a quiet year, dealt with
some injuries. Where do you think NFL teams see him?
And he's more of a run after catch guy. He's
very unpolished in terms of his rout tree.
Speaker 3 (20:51):
Yeah, and he's not super fast. He's got a good
bill five to eleven, two hundred and eight pounds. He
catches the ball very well. I mean, I think he's
got the potential to be a solid number one receiver,
but he's not a game breaking threat. He doesn't have
an expanded route tree. It's going to have to work
on some areas of his game. I think you're looking
as far as Burden's concern as a mid first round pick,
(21:14):
depending on what the New Orleans Saints do, all.
Speaker 1 (21:17):
Right, And then you have in the round one start
a round two.
Speaker 2 (21:20):
We've talked about a Mecca Buka, a good all round player,
solid wide receiver, Isaiah Bond. You talked about smaller guy
getna be really fast. That's one of these second round
guys who I think you're interesting. We have not talked
about them a ton. You have Matthew Golden out of Texas,
which you know a lot of people see him as
a first round there.
Speaker 1 (21:34):
I have not watched him yet.
Speaker 2 (21:36):
And then you have elc iamin Er out of Stanford,
who was supposed to be at the Senior Bowl ended
up not going.
Speaker 1 (21:42):
Those are two guys you have in around two.
Speaker 3 (21:45):
Gold is a guy that if we do the show again,
right before the draft could be rated much higher. I
got to watch a lot more of them, obviously, want
to see the testing numbers. People think he's the first rounder.
I'm not going to dismiss that opinion right now. I
just don't think I agree with that opinion right now.
That could change. I am man of some people had
him as a first round pick. I don't see you.
(22:07):
He's got decent size, he's got very good hands. The
speed and the quickness kind of concern. He's not beating
anybody down the field when you watch the game is explosive.
Speaker 2 (22:16):
It all like he's never like exploding past people, you
know what I mean.
Speaker 3 (22:20):
He's not overly quick. He's very good at catching the ball.
There's a place for that on Sunday. I just don't
think there's a place for that, you know, in the
top thirty two picks. And people at some point time
had him as a mid first rounder. Jalen Nowell, I mean,
I think he was tremendous at the Senior Bowl. I
had him as a Day three pick. With that speed,
(22:41):
with that quickness, with the ability to consistently separate from
defenders throughout the routes. I think that's going to help
his draft doc. I liked ty Felton, who had his
moments at the Senior Ball, wasn't a consistent dominant threat,
but he watched the film. He's supposed to run in
the low four fours. He shows himself to be a
good vertical receiver and he catches the underneath passes just
(23:03):
as well.
Speaker 2 (23:04):
Yeah, he was winning one on ones very consistently that week,
and he was catching everything. And then you have Jaden Higgins,
George Dakoby at of Miami, and Tes Johnson, guys that
we talked about in our Senior Bowl and shrin Bowl reviews.
You guys to go check out those shows if you
want more on that. All right, let's go to the
offensive line class here, Tony. And you know last year
was such a good offensive tackle class that were like, ah,
this year is not as good. But as I've looked
(23:25):
at more and more of these guys, you're still gonna
have a ton of offensive linemen picked in the first
three rounds and I think are gonna be pretty good
NFL players.
Speaker 3 (23:32):
And a lot of interior guys. I mean, the big
question mark is at the tackle position. Are these college
tackles going to be pushed into guard or even center.
You start at the top with Will Campbell. You know
a lot of people are projecting Will Campbell to play
guard because of arm length. I've not heard anything about
Will Campbell having arms under thirty three inches, the way
(23:53):
we did about Peter Skronsky, who we talked about years
ago on this podcast. In the lead up to the draft,
even before the comment, before the official measurements, I was
out there saying, I'm hearing he got thirty two inch arms.
I think it was thirty two and a half that
came to fruition. I can't I've not heard that about
Will Campbell except on the outside. We'll see what happens.
(24:14):
The thing what Campbell is this. He's athletic, he's long,
he moves well. He can be a good pass protector.
He just doesn't block with the nasty attitude. That's something
I said early in the season on these podcasts in
September when we were watching Will Campbell. That's gonna be
a concern from teams. He's gonna be drilled about that
at the combine. Why aren't you working to finish off
(24:35):
block of defenders. Why does it seem that you're standing
around the times rather than really trying to knock somebody
on their rear end. And then you got guys like
Kelvin Banks, Josh Connolly, I got another tackle in between there.
Who college tackles do they project to guard? My opinion
is leave them at left tackle until they prove they
(24:56):
can't play left tackle. But they're both athletic guys who
move incredibly well where I think would be a terrific
in his own blocking system, have a high upside. They're
just not long, tall, big bodied tackles, which a lot
of teams like. And then, as far as I'm concerned,
Josh Simmons is the is the variable here. He's the
(25:17):
guy who could go much earlier than people think. If
he gets good medical reports on that knee injury that
knocked him out during New Yorkgan game, or if the
reports come back bad, he could go later. Fact is this,
if Josh Simmons played a full season and he continued
to develop as he was early in the two thousand
and four season. Off of twenty twenty three, in my opinion,
(25:38):
Josh Simmons is probably the first offensive tackle take him
and a definite first round pick. He's athletic, fundamentally sound,
tremendous pass protector, shows the ability to get on second
level block in motion. Needs to improve his strength. But
we now have a situation where he was injured, a
season ending injury in October, which is sort of a
red flag and a variable that teams will look at.
Speaker 1 (26:01):
Differently, no question. All right.
Speaker 2 (26:03):
Then we got a bunch of guys here that we
talked about in our Senior Bowl review Marcus Bow Arman Membo, Well,
I want to ask you about it? Is he as
he wasn't there? Ariante Urser talked about Jonah seven, THEA.
We talked about Wyatt Milan, We talked about Grey's able,
We talked about so three guys that wanted to Senior Bowl.
They could be available top of the second round. Tyler Booker,
(26:24):
the guard out of Alabama. Arman Membo, you haven't listened
as a guard, and a lot of people think of me,
think he's a tackle, so do I out of Missouri.
And then you have Donovan Jackson, you have a third
round grade on him out of Ohio State. Your thought
kind of on that group and how you think they
might look on day two?
Speaker 3 (26:42):
Booker could go round one. I mean he is a
big bodied guy. Want to see his measurements, you know,
is he in the mid to high three forties and
how does he run? He is a guy that once
he's engaged at the point of attack with a defender
came over, he controls the opponents at the point of attack.
He's a dominant roun blocker. Was also very good and
(27:02):
pass protection. Surprisingly, he shows some ability when asked to
kick out and pull across the line of scrimmage. But again,
the three hundred and forty pounds size, it didn't hurt
JC Latham last year. We'll see how teams look at that.
Want to see what his official I say three forty
eight because that's what he's estimated to be at. We'll
see what his official measurements are at the combine, if
(27:24):
in fact he measures, and we'll see what his testing
numbers are. As far as membos concern I think maybe
the measurements at the Senior Bawl before he had to
pull out with what was reported as hood poisoning may
may kind of ease my concerns as far as him
playing tackle at the next level. But going back to
the twenty twenty three film when I first rated him,
(27:44):
I always thought he was going to be a guard
because he's a little bit shorter than everybody else. But
he's powerful, he's explosive, he controls one on one blocking.
He's also very good on his feet, gets out to
the second level and come block in motion. Donovan Jackson,
you know we talked about Josh Simmons. Well, what happened
was when Josh Simmons went down a couple gay a
couple of games later, Donovan Jackson had to slide out
(28:05):
from guard to left tackle and he did a decent job.
And prior to that, he was actually doing a terrific
job at offensive guard. Coming into the twenty twenty three season,
a lot of people thought Donovan Jackson could be a
first round pick, but he had a terrible campaign in
twenty twenty three, made the right choice, went back to school,
had a real good campaign at guard, and then was
(28:27):
okay to tackle. I project him strictly as a guard.
The only reason I have him rated lower in my
offensive line rankings is because there's so many guys ahead
of him. I mean, you mentioned it. It's a pretty
deep class. We just don't have any We don't have
the numbers, the quality, or the quantity at the offensive
tackle position, which is what a lot of people want
(28:49):
to see.
Speaker 2 (28:50):
Yeah, so, just so fans though, you have Ursery seven
Am Millium with second round grades Zabels kind of a
two to three.
Speaker 1 (28:55):
Then you have Donovan Jackson, Dylan Fairchild.
Speaker 2 (28:58):
A guard out of Georgia, Emery Jones of LSU tackle guard,
Cameron Williams, Texas tackle. We've talked about him a lot
as third rounders, along with Charles Grant, and then Anthony
Belton who had a nice senior Bowl from North Carolina
State as a third fourth round pick. Draft season is
brought to you by Moody. He's a proud partner of
the New York Football Giants. Decode Risk, Unlock Opportunity. Learnmore
(29:19):
at Moody's dot com. All right, Toty, let's up to
the defensive side, hole ball, defensive tackle. We haven't had
a good defensive tackle class in a while in my opinion,
Why don't your rapid fires through your top ten here?
And then we could dive into players in more detail.
Speaker 3 (29:33):
Well, Mason Grant first round choice going to be a
top ten pick is number one. Kenneth Grant, who I
like a lot, who I think could actually be a
better player two or three years down the road, also
has a first round grade. Walter Nolan has a first
round grade despite the fact I thought he was disappointing
during the Senior Ball, and then ty Leek Williams of
Ohio State also as a first round grade. After that,
(29:54):
I got Derek Harmon as a late first early second rounder, TJ.
Sanders South Carolina as the second Dion Walker who's falling
fast as a late second rounder, ty Robinson of Nebraska
who can play a variety of spots up front as
a early third rounder, and then Jordan Phillips of Maryland,
the nose tackle type who showed a lot of athleticism
(30:15):
during shrine Bol practices. He also has a third round grade.
Speaker 1 (30:18):
It's a great group.
Speaker 2 (30:19):
Tony Mason Graham, do you see him as kind of
the next position player up after we talk about the
Travis Hunters and Abdull Carter. Is he in that next
group with the tech mcmillans and kind of that next
group of position players.
Speaker 3 (30:33):
Yeah, I have. I'm looking at my overall board right now,
and that's the wrong one. I'm hang on one second here,
I'm looking at my overall board right now and Mason
Graham is number five, So yeah, I will talk about
Jally McMillan, but he's right there with Tech McMillan, Will Johnson,
Will Campbell, MIKEL Williams. I would be surprised if Graham
(30:58):
gets out of the top eight of the draft.
Speaker 2 (31:00):
All right, And then when you think Grant is going
to start getting thought about by teams given his size
and athleticism, yeah, I.
Speaker 3 (31:07):
Think somewhere between twelve to eighteen. Maybe he tests much
better and he surprises. This thing goes earlier. I think
the way to compare Graham versus Grant is Mason Graham
is the safer pick. Mason Graham is the sure thing.
You know what you're getting with Mason Graham. Kenneth Grant
(31:29):
is bigger, he's more athletics, he's more explosive, but he's
not nearly as polished. So when sometimes when you get
those bigger defensive tackles three hundred and forty plus pounds,
they can go either way. I love Kenneth Grant. I mean,
Kenneth Grant's a guy that, while Mason Graham is explosive
up the field, about.
Speaker 2 (31:47):
That, it's probably something again trying to tell Tony about
one of his players, and Tony's always on the phone
trying to get info on these guys.
Speaker 1 (31:54):
Man.
Speaker 3 (31:55):
While Mason Graham is more explosive up the field, Kenneth
Grant can get out on the chase to play in pursuit.
So that's why I say Grant's got more upside than
Mason Graham, which means two or three years he could
potentially be the better player.
Speaker 2 (32:12):
Interesting, all right, and then you have Tyler Williams you mentioned,
and Walter Nolan Derek Harmon with a borderline first round grade.
You're looking at it like seventeen twenty to thirty two
for those guys.
Speaker 3 (32:24):
I think both. I think Nolan is somewhere bottom half
around one. I think Tyler Williams is bottom half a
round one. I think Harmon, if he gets in a
fresh round, which I think is a definite possibility, is
bottom half around one. Remember, defensive tackle is a priority
positioned come draft d A. I mean, people talk about
the quarterbacks because in the media, but teams want to
(32:46):
see left tackles, which we don't really think we have
that many of this year. Cornerbacks, which we don't think
we have that many of this year and defensive tackles,
and there are a good number of defensive tackles that
could end up as Round one picks. Yeah.
Speaker 2 (32:58):
I mean there are people that think now Tony, to
be honest with you, that having a really good pass
rushing three technique is more valuable than having an edge
rusher now, because you're closer to the quarterback.
Speaker 3 (33:07):
Not only that is you know you got guys in
the middle who can occupy the blockers and that will
free things up for your edge rushers on the outside.
Speaker 1 (33:14):
All right, And then we talked about Dean Walker a bunch. TJ.
Speaker 2 (33:16):
Sanders was at the Senior Bowl. I don't think we
talked about him in our Senior Bowl review. I thought
he was pretty good. I don't think he like jump
out of Me is like WHOA like TJ.
Speaker 1 (33:24):
Sanders. Unbelievable but good, solid player.
Speaker 3 (33:27):
He has the ability to be incredible. You go whack
and you watch and I don't great gut players on
one game alone. You shouldn't do that. But you go
back and you watch TJ. Sanders in twenty twenty three
against Georgia, good Georgia offensive line, and he was dominant
and he has the ability just to take over games.
He's got good size, he's incredibly quick. He's also a
very athletic. And what that means is he can actually
(33:50):
play in a variety of systems. He can play in
a foreman front, he can play in a three man front.
And you know, you he's consistently making or I shouldn't
say consistently, but he has the ability to basically take
over games and make game changing type of plays. Yep.
Speaker 2 (34:05):
And then you have Deon Walker, who he talked a
lot about. We know him, Ty Robinson, We've talked about
a lot. Jordan Phillips out of Maryland. He was a trime.
We talked about him in the Shrine Review. Yye Block
from Iowa. Josh Farmer, Florida State, Warren Brinston, Georgia. All
Senior Bowl and Shrine Bowl guys. We talked about all
those guys on previous programs. All right, let's go to
the defensive end position, Tony. This is mostly your bigger,
(34:28):
you know, guys that play the edge. And then we
have some of the outside linebackers in your next group
that are more of the stand up pass rusher types.
It's not you know, you know, just have a ton
of big defensive ends anymore. A lot of these pass
rushers are two hundred and fifty punds, stand up guys.
But you do have some pretty good players here, and
some and many that could go in the first round.
Speaker 3 (34:45):
I think what you have here is you have guys
that have a lot of ability but need to finish
their games, really need to polish their games. Mikel Williams,
Nick Scourton, Michael Green of Marshall, who you could easily
put on an outside linebacker board. I do defensive end
outside linebacker versus edge because I'm old school and I'm
cut at stubborn. But those three guys, you know, are
(35:07):
terrific hats rushers who just got to get bigger and
stronger and complete their games. Same thing with you know,
Chimar Turner of Texas A and m Shimar Stewart have size,
They've shown ability, but again they need to elevate their games.
Those guys real quick.
Speaker 1 (35:23):
You have you have Turner is an end, not a tackle, huh.
Speaker 3 (35:26):
Two hundred and ninety pounds I mean in three man front,
I think he could play both end or tackle. But again,
both of those guys have got tremendous ability. They just
have to, you know, step up their game. Where the
next guy on my board is JT two and Mela
of Ohio State, who has shown the ability to be
a dominant player the past two years at Ohio State.
(35:48):
He's there, he just needs consistency. He's more polished than
the guys which I just mentioned. But the problem with
to him Moloe is he's not He's very streaky. You know,
he'll show up and he'll dominate a couple of series,
helped dominate a ham and then he will disappear or
for stretches, which you know is a problem. Came back
(36:09):
to Oileo State did win a national championship. I don't
know that he's improved his draft grade from where it
was a year ago.
Speaker 2 (36:16):
Yeah, and then you have Landon Jackson in the second round,
someone we talked about. He's the Senior Bowl. Jordan Birch
is someone that we've talked about for two years. The
hell on this show, Tony a bigger guy at two
hundred ninety four pounds and then tyron Ingram Dawkins I
think is interesting.
Speaker 1 (36:30):
With him in the third round, he was at the
Senior Bowl. We didn't really talk much about him.
Speaker 2 (36:33):
Baron Sorel out of Texas, he was there, and then
Ashton j a Loot out of Louisville. We talked more
about last year than this year. Anybody who want to
feature from that last group.
Speaker 3 (36:42):
Well, I mean, Birch, you don't know what you're getting Burch,
just like some of the guys I've talked about before.
If Jordan Birch had played the way he was capable
of this season, he's a top fifteen pick. He's a
mid first round pick. There was a lot of inconsistency.
There's a lot of injury, but when he's on the field,
he's dominant. He just doesn't do it enough, and a
lot of it is because he's injured. Tyler Ingram Dawkins
(37:05):
is a terrific pass rushing edge. Kind of surprised he
entered the draft. He shows a lot of speed, He
shows a place with great leverage and ped level. Just
needs to get a little stronger. It just needs a
bigger body of work. Astin Gillette, I mean, is he
an end is the defensive tackle. I was down on
him because the stats weren't there this year compared to
(37:27):
last year when he blew it up. But when you
watch him you see a lot of quickness, you see
a lot of explosion, you see a lot of upside potential.
I think with Gillette two and a half and a
half two hundred and seventy five pounds, it's just a
fit sort of thing. It's a scheme the type of situation.
Are you gonna use him as a defensive end in
a format front, which is basically what he played at Louisville.
(37:48):
Are you gonna kick him inside? You're you gonna put
it put him in a three man front. I just
think he needs to be put in the right system.
Speaker 1 (37:53):
Now, I'm with you kind of a tweener.
Speaker 2 (37:55):
You got to figure out where that body type fits
in on your defensive line. All right, look at the
linebacker Tony and this is a nomination of off ball
guys and handing the dirt edge rusher. So I don't
know how you want to separate them your your first
three guys, though Jayalen Walker has done both, or guys
that play more at the hand in the dirt on
the outside.
Speaker 3 (38:14):
I mean, Abdul Carter is going to be a very
early pick. He was. He's been my number one player
on my board for the longest time. I'm glad to
see the other people are starting to agree with that.
Speaker 1 (38:21):
Man caught off to you, Tony, Tony, you're a trendsetter, man,
you are, you are setting the trends, dude. People are
following you along. Man, you like the pied Piper.
Speaker 3 (38:29):
Just right right. Remember just spell my name correctly on
the check when you send it to me, please. I
thought that Penn State kind of did Abdul Carter disservice
lining them up at Defense Van. I understand why they
did it. They did it because that's what they needed
for them to win. But Abdul Calrter is much more
than an edge rusher. I mean, he is a guy
that complaints space. You go back and watch the twenty
(38:49):
twenty three film when he was basically a linebacker, and
he can do it all. Jalen Walker granted, I have
sentimental feelings towards his play because when I watched them
over with the song and when he was a backup
in twenty twenty three, I said, watch this guy. There's
always one player that pops up, you know, in April,
and the talking heads will say, hey, this guy's gonna
(39:10):
go much earlier. I think it's gonna be Jalen Walker.
All he's got to do is test well. But when
you watch the film on Jalen Walker, he's an explosive
pass rusher. I mean to the point where he's beating
offensive tackles, bigger offensive tackles with inside moves, not just
wide edge rushers. But he also makes plays in space.
I mean he's tremendous speed. Laterally in pursuit he gets
(39:31):
depth on his past drops. I have Jaalen Walker highly
highly rated. I mean when I say highly raded, he's
in my top six as far as overall players. Let's
see what happens. I have a feeling that Walker is
a guy that's going to be talked about as we
move towards the draft.
Speaker 2 (39:45):
Yeah, way, people, some people have I started interrupting some
people of Michael Williams ahead of him, his teammate out
of Georgia head of Jayalen Walker.
Speaker 1 (39:52):
I don't see it. I've watched both guys. I just
I don't think Walker just is.
Speaker 2 (39:56):
So much more burst and athleticism to him than than
Williams does, at least my opinion.
Speaker 3 (40:00):
And he's strong for his size, and he can do
more things. Listen, you could put Jalen Walker on the
field on third and six, and you can use them
as a pass rusher or you can use them a coverage.
You put Michael Williams on the field in third six,
it's strictly as a pass rusher. So that's why I
really like Jalen Walker. James Pierce. I am not as
high as other people are. Yeah he's passed, Yeah he's
(40:23):
a terrific pass rusher, but he's thin. I mean he's
a small guy and that's not really gonna work. Well.
He's gonna have to get bigger, he's gonna have to
get stronger, and he's gonna have to keep that quickness
and speed on the field. John Campbell, if there is
he hands down the best off ball space linebacker, if
you will, whatever you like to call it. I mean,
he is the guy that whether it's stacking against the run,
(40:46):
whether it's covering the pass, he's not a bad pass rusher.
They didn't use him in that capacity too much at
Alabama because they didn't need to, but he was the
guy that you know on third and six, can cover
tight ends down the field, covers a lot of air,
very athletic, your first you know, traditional say four to
three week side of strong side type linebacker.
Speaker 2 (41:08):
And then you have four straight up second round picks.
One is Ola Fami Oladaijo. He's your one, two, three, four, five,
sixth ranked player here. He's in the second round. We
talked a ton about him. Then the other three guys
are all off ball linebackers. Danny Stutsman out of Oklahoma,
Nick Martin out of Oklahoma State, and then course In
Swesinger out of UCLA.
Speaker 3 (41:26):
Tony Yeah, Stutsman is Stutsman is that he's a studd.
I mean he is a tough, stout run defender. Didn't
play in the Senior boat because he was injured. I
know there was a legitimate injury late in the season.
The question with him is coverage, and we saw a
lot of linebackers fail and coverage. But again, a real
good two down linebacker who has the athleticism to develop
(41:46):
into coverage. Nick Martin is a personal favorite of mine.
I know he struggled some injuries points this year, but
I mean he is an explosive sideline to sideline guy
who will fire up the field defending the run of
rushing the passer, who can also cover covered tight ends
in passing downs, swassengers interesting. There are a lot of
people who like him. I mean again sort of like
(42:08):
Jah Carter, jahadd Campbell in the sense that he is
a pure off the ball linebacker, you know, ten fifteen
yards down the field in coverage, pursuing the plays. Laterally,
it's gonna be in pulled out of the Senior Bowl late,
which I know, which was a big disappointment to teams
because they wanted to see him a person. Be interesting
to see how he tests. He's gonna run relatively well.
(42:28):
He's got good playing speed, but teams are gonna want
to see decent forty times as well at the combine.
Speaker 2 (42:33):
Then you have done him in as Araku out of
Boston College, Tony as a borderline second round early third
round pick, Barry Carter of Clemson that thing we talked
about last year as an off ball guy, speed guy,
silent the sideline. And then you have the Kyle Kurdard
and Jack Sawyer two kind of solid edges we've talked about.
And would you have prince ly human Mialen kind of
in this group two kind of in that range.
Speaker 3 (42:54):
Yeah, I mean he's basically a step down. I have
him as a fourth rounder. I mean flan ability at
the senior ball, but really we didn't show a lot
of consistency, and that is the mo for his college career.
I mean, there were times where he just took over games,
and then there's other series other half of the games
where you're like, was this guy even on the field.
(43:16):
So I think that's gonna be a big concern for teams.
He's got great potential, though I can understand why why
people would like him. I just don't see the consistency there.
Speaker 2 (43:25):
All right, let's jump to the defensive backstone, and you've
sorted the corners in safeties together. This is not a
great group this year. I think you're probably you might
only have one first round pick. Malki Starks at safety
could slide into this first round, I think still, and
I think that's a good chance.
Speaker 1 (43:39):
So maybe one corner, one safety. Why don't you break
it down for us?
Speaker 2 (43:42):
Why don't we go through the corners first and then
we'll kind of split the safeties off a little bit.
Speaker 3 (43:48):
Will Johnson, you go back in the twenty twenty three
film on Will Johnson. He looks like a top ten pick.
You go in twenty twenty four You're like, what happened?
And it was. It's a question of was it a
schematic thing because you was consistently playing backed off the
line of scrimmage, manoff coverage, and he was giving up
a lot of receptions. So it's gonna be it's gonna
(44:08):
be determined between it's gonna be. He's gonna be asked
about it, as is his defensive coordinator, Wink Martindale as
to you know, was this the game plan with Will
Johnson because he gave up a lot of receptions this
year and he was constantly backed off the line of scrimmage.
But again the twenty twenty three film, he was absolutely dominant, dominant.
Then there's Ben Morrison, who started off slowly had the
(44:30):
hip injury, but a can you go back to the
two tenty twenty three film when he was at the
top of his game and he was like, Wow, I mean,
this guy is a shutdown top fifteen pick at the
cornerback position because he was so good. Shotton Revel, I
think Revel was the guy who his game was progressing
incredible size speed numbers. It's gonna go about six foot two,
(44:51):
one hundred and ninety pounds legitimately runs in the four threes.
I saw a lot of development in his game, especially
was with his ability to plays with his back to
the ball and get his head back around track to
pass in the air in the early part of twenty
twenty four, but he suffered the knee injury in practice
which kind of ended his season. So he's kind of
(45:13):
a wild card as far as the draft is concern.
And then one of my favorite guys and someone who
I think can go much higher than everyone thinks is
ja Jahade Baron of Texas played a little nickel, played
on the edge. Did it all very very well?
Speaker 2 (45:28):
Yeah, And you know those are your guys that you
have at corner in the first and second round. And
then you have Treomos kind of coming in at the
back end of that second round, Tony and then Kobe Bryant,
a guy that we saw at Kansas.
Speaker 1 (45:39):
This is funny.
Speaker 2 (45:40):
I was rewatching some of the wide receiver dB one
on ones at the Senior Bowl. Tray Amos like this
disappears like I feel like midway through the week and
I didn't even notice it at the time. When I
rewatched the table, I'm like, why is it?
Speaker 1 (45:51):
Tre Amos taking more reps.
Speaker 3 (45:54):
And you know, some people had him as a mid
first round pick. I never saw with tre Ambos. I
just thought he was in a nice cornerback. Remember Mississippi's
his third school started at Louisiana, then went to Alabama,
that played last year at Mississippi, and I always thought
he was a nice cornerback with upside. I just never
saw a polished player that deserved you know, top thirty
two mentioned in this game, you mentioned, you know, he
(46:16):
was basically uninspired at the Senior Ball. Then he went
down with the injury, walked back into the locker room
and we didn't see him again.
Speaker 2 (46:23):
Yeah, and then Maxwell Harriston laya Kobe Bryant Harriston. We
talked to him at the Senior Bowl. Brian did a
great job at the Shrine Bowl as potential third rounders.
And how about safety Tony Obviously this is not a
class that year head over here is over now.
Speaker 3 (46:36):
I mean Malachi Starks at Georgia, very athletic, very explosive,
shows some ability when he's placed over the slot receiver,
though he's got to polish his ball skills. One of
the more natural free safeties, if you will, center fielders,
and this year's draft probably the only natural center fielder
that's going to go early in the draft. It's going
(46:56):
to be some people had him as an early first
round pick. I think more mid to bottom half. Maybe
team the Miami Dolphins desperately need a safety. Colts could
use the safety, so I think he goes somewhere in
that range. And then you have in Nick Emminawari of
South Carolina and Malik Verden of Iowa State. You've got
your linebacker side safeties. You've got your natural strong safeties
(47:19):
who also show solid ball skills. I mean, these guys
can make plays when the balls in the air. They're
just not up the field run defending safeties. It'll be
interesting to see when teams select these guys, do they
draft them as safeties or are they drafting him drafting
either of these guys as linebackers, specifically one gap linebackers,
(47:40):
because that's been the trend the past five six years
or so.
Speaker 2 (47:44):
Hi, Tony, is you continuing and soon completing all your
filmwork on this class? Anything else jump out at you
in general about this class that that you think fan
should No one understands well.
Speaker 3 (47:54):
I mean we talked about the top guys. But what
I think is going to happen I've said before, and
I apologize if I'm being redundant, is there is great
depth in the later rounds of Day three. I mean
and late in the draft. There's gonna be a lot
of depth because of the fact that that COVID year
is ending and you're gonna have a lot of fifth, sixth,
and even seven year seniors. And what's gonna happen at
(48:17):
the end of the draft where people really don't pay
too much attention, is you're gonna have guys who are
not selected, who have drafta book graades, just like you're
only gonna have three hundred and twenty five guys to combine,
and you could literally give out four hundred and fifty
invitations because the guys are deserving. So while you don't
have the great quality of the knockout quality at the top,
say as we did last year, it's gonna be a
lot of good depth later on in Day three.
Speaker 2 (48:40):
Tony always a pleasure, my friend, will be back with
your mock draft next week. And if folks we want
to send in questions for Tony and I send them
into our Twitter handles.
Speaker 1 (48:49):
I'm at Schmelk Tony, what's your Twitter.
Speaker 3 (48:50):
Handle at Tony Pauline.
Speaker 2 (48:53):
There we go nice and easy. We keep it simple
for you guys, So send then your questions. I'll put
a tweet up. You can reply to that as well.
At some point at the end of the day on
and next week, at some point, get those questions in.
We'll do that in Tony's mock draft. Then we'll have
our Combine preview. I'll see Tony down there. He'll jump
on Big B Killef live with us when we're in Innianapolis.
I'm getting all mixed up, and then we'll do our
(49:14):
Cobbyed review when we get back, probably on Tuesday, because
I think offensive linemen are doing Monday workouts right or
something like that.
Speaker 1 (49:21):
Are they Sunday Sunday?
Speaker 3 (49:22):
Sunday late Sunday? Okay, I'm I'm taking a late flight
out Sunday so to make sure I catch them up.
Because last year they had the specialists that the kickers
go before the offensive lineman, and the offensive lineman didn't
start to like afternoon on Sunday and a lot of
just about everybody left. So this year I think they
pushed the specialist to Friday, and it's the offensive lineman
(49:45):
have the field all to themselves on Sunday.
Speaker 2 (49:47):
Yeah, I'm leaving on Friday night, so I will watch
those drills. Luckily, NFL Network does a great job broadcasting
all of those drills and they show all the players.
So I will have that on the DVR and I
will sort through that over the weekend and then Tony
and I will review that on the Monday after the combine,
but two more shows before then. Make sure you come
in and check us out. It's all brought to you
by Moody's, a proud sponsor of the New York Giants.
For Tony Pauline, I'm John Schmulck. We will see you
(50:08):
next week.
Draft is now officially open. Welcome to Draft season. I
am John Schmelke.
Speaker 2 (00:11):
It's all brought to you by Moody's, a proud partner
of the Giants, uniting the brightest minds to turn today's
risk into tomorrow's opportunities.
Speaker 1 (00:17):
Learn more at moodies dot com.
Speaker 2 (00:18):
As always, we're joined by Tony Pauline, who writes for
sports Keta on the NFL Draft, Tony, we got a
busy few weeks coming here.
Speaker 1 (00:27):
We got three weeks before the combine.
Speaker 2 (00:28):
We're gonna do our are your rather top ten ranks
at each position group this week. Next week you're gonna
have a mock draft at We'll also take some fan
questions if you want to send them to us on Twitter,
feel free, and then we're gonna have our Combine preview
and then our Combine reviews. So that'll take us through
the first week of March, and then we're like seven
weeks away from the NFL Draft, so it comes fast,
my friend.
Speaker 3 (00:49):
It does. And then right after the combine, you know,
we'll have free agency, which a lot of people will
be very excited about, but we also have Pro days.
And the pro days are crazy because you will have
three and four prod per day, five sometimes six days
a week. And what happens is the guys who didn't
work out the combine or the guys who were not
invited to combine will be working out for NFL scouts.
(01:10):
So yeah, seven weeks been, it goes fast because really
from the combine on the month of March, as far
as I'm concerned, is just the craziest time of the year,
specifically because of those crow days.
Speaker 2 (01:22):
So, Tony, I was going through your top tens and
we'll get to the specifically first, but a general question first.
I went through here, and I'm not sure if these
these grades are final yet, but you have like rounds
listed right and right now I counted twenty one guys
with first round grades. That's not inclouding your one slash
two guys. Those are just the guys that you have
a first round number on. And again that's going to change,
as Tony just said, as he finishes his scouting process.
(01:45):
Do you expect that number to decrease or increase as
you go deeper into.
Speaker 3 (01:49):
This, It'll probably increase. I mean, right since I sent
it to you, there's twenty guys to have sure first
round grades. And it's always changing because I'm always watching film.
So really, right now I'm in the middle actually through
getting through Georgia in the SECC, so that number will
change based on my views. It will change again because
(02:10):
let's say a guy like Isaiah Bond, the smaller receiver,
if he doesn't run super fast, he's gonna fall. You know,
you expect Isaiah Bond to at least get in the
under four fours. So based on some of the testing scores,
that will change. And of course the medicals. Eventually some
of these some of the stuff will come out about
these guys medicals, maybe issues that they had previously or
(02:32):
they were red flag. That's also going to change. The
character stuff. I mean, I don't expect it to change
that much. I know most of the character issues unless
somebody does something really stupid between now and the draft.
Speaker 1 (02:43):
Okay, so let's get it to it, Tony. We have
the quarterbacks first.
Speaker 2 (02:48):
You have deeper than ten here for a lot of
these position groups, which is great and it's funny the
way I categorize it, Tony. Maybe not as good as
the top is last year's class, with nobody as great
as high.
Speaker 1 (02:58):
As the Jayden Daniels and the Drake Mays and the
Caleb Williams. We've been through that before.
Speaker 2 (03:03):
But unlike last year, where after you got past the
first six guys, right, Spencer Ratler wasn't taken to a
round five. You have a good you know, seven eight
guys between rounds two and five.
Speaker 3 (03:17):
Right, it's nowhere. It's nowhere near as good at the
top of the draft. No one expects that. But there
are a good number of players after that. Some of
them have got outstanding physical skills and just need to
be coached up. Some of them don't have great physical
skills and may just need to be in the right system.
I mean, you talk about Jalen Milro, one of my
favorite guys. You watched Jaln Milroe up to that Georgia game,
(03:37):
and you look like a short fire top twelve pick.
It was all downhill for him afterwards. You mentioned last
week at the Senior Bowl how Jaln Milroll never wanted
to show off his strong arm. He kept with those
five and eight yard dump off passes, and we I
mentioned late in the season that Jalen Milroe was winning
games with its legs. So it seems to me that
Jalen Miller. Milroe has lost a lot of confidence in
(04:01):
his passing, his passing abilities. You got to get him
coached up. If you get him coached up, you know
he goes late first round. I don't think he's gonna
fall out the first round. You could have an outstanding
quarterback in your hands. Literally the same thing with quinn Ewers.
Quinn Ewers is he's got a terrific rodical arm. You know,
he's a smart, tough passer, doesn't make a lot of mistakes,
had a lot of talents around them. Just may may
(04:22):
need to play in the right system, as would Jackson Dart,
who a lot of people like Jackson Dart is a
mid first round pick. I just don't see it. I
was hoping that we see, you know, a big time
arm at the senior ball. We did not. I think
he's a Day two pick, a second round pick. But
if you put a me in timing sort of a
timing type of offense, sort of like the San Francisco
forty nine ers run, I think Jackson Dart will be
(04:42):
uh will be very successful at the next level. Then
you've got Riley, Leonard cal McCord, Will Howard Tyler, shuck.
These are guys that have got outstanding physical skills. They
all have NFL arms, but they stared down receivers. They
need help on with their accrescy. They need to improve
their accuracy in their past placement. But they have a
tremendous amount of upside. They've got good size as well.
(05:04):
So there are more guys that are developmental quarterbacks. And
if coach dright, you take them late in day two,
early in day three, really through the middle quart of
day three, you could hit a home run.
Speaker 1 (05:14):
Ah yeah, you.
Speaker 2 (05:15):
Gotta have these guys split up into tiers. I know
you didn't do this on purpose, just naturally. That's kind
of where the grades have wound up. So at the
top of your Warden Sanders, how close do you have
those guys, Tony? And do you think the consensus seems
to be right now that Ward's gonna go before Sanders?
Do you still think there's a chance that could flip
before we get the draft day or no?
Speaker 3 (05:33):
I mean I would be surprised. I reported this as
sports skied at the Senior Bowl. Actually, I think it's
from the shrine ball that the consensus was cam Warden's
gonna be the first quarterback selected and if the draft
were held right now, he would be selected by the
Tennessee Titans. You know, I like Shador Sanders. There are
some people that are very concerned about the Dion factors
something else. I reported that, you know, if Sanders doesn't
(05:55):
play well, or if he's getting sacked or something. You know,
Dion's got that bully pit, bully pulpit at the as
head coach of the University of Colorado to air the
grievances about, you know, his son not playing well, the
blame other people. That does concern some people.
Speaker 2 (06:11):
I think, by the way, Shador himself seems like a
pretty well put together, sure kid, both.
Speaker 3 (06:16):
Of the both of the Sanders kids, both of them do.
But that doesn't that's not gonna stop Dad, because Dad
from being a dad. I mean, you know, everybody wants
to protect their kids. And if Dad see something, you know, wrong,
he's going to express those or he's going to criticize it.
And we all don't have the bully pulpit that Deon
Sanders does.
Speaker 1 (06:34):
So I absolutely agree with you that I speak for yourself. Tony.
Speaker 3 (06:39):
There there you go. Uh So, I agree with you
that is something I think what's going to happen is
I think of a team if both quarterbacks are there,
a team is really going to have to like Shador
Sanders much more than cam Ward to take Shador Sanders
over cam Ward. I think if it's very close. The
vibe I'm getting right now though, is that if it's
(07:01):
very close, they're gonna lean towards Ward.
Speaker 2 (07:03):
Do you think Sanders gets out of the top six,
I'll say, because that's what the Raiders are selecting, I'd
be shocked.
Speaker 3 (07:08):
I think the Raiders are gonna have to trade up
to get a quarterback. And you know, when you look
at you got the two other kids, you got Abdul
Carter and Travis Hunter, and then it kind of drops
you off after that. I mean, you're gonna take Mason
Graham before shoot door Sanders. You're gonna take McMillan, the
receiver out of Arizona before door Sanders. I think there'll
be the opportunity for a team like the Raiders that
(07:30):
are in desperate need of a quarterback to trade up
and get Sanders if he gets past the Giant selection.
Speaker 2 (07:36):
Yeah, I'd be surprised if those weren't the force four
players taken to be honest with you, if those aren't
the first four players, Tony, I'd be surprised.
Speaker 1 (07:43):
I'm with you, all right.
Speaker 2 (07:44):
Your next group and your grades are kind of close
on these three guys. Is Miro who you mentioned? You
still think he's first round? They'll get in there, right
Quinn or a start?
Speaker 1 (07:55):
Do you think?
Speaker 2 (07:56):
How close do you think those guys are? How confident
are you that Milro's gonna be your third guy?
Speaker 1 (08:01):
Gone?
Speaker 3 (08:02):
Yeah? I think you know. The thing about Mirro is
I just as I mentioned before, the passing has seemed
to go away from him. He's got the great physical skills,
he is a high character guy. He is well liked
by everybody. He is a leader. It may be a
situation where he just needs proper coaching. I mean, Alabama
just hired Ryan Grubb, who basically developed Michael Pennix, probably
(08:25):
a year or two late. As far as Jalen Milro
is concerned, I still think with those physical skills, the
way he's going to interview, and his upside, he's the
first round pick. I also think, even though I have
a second round greade on Queen Youwers, I think Queen
Youwers could land in the bottom part of round one,
either by a team maybe the Rams, maybe the Lions
that have an aging quarterback and want to get a
(08:47):
young guy in the pipeline, or a team that moves
from the late sorry, from the early part of round
two into the late part of round one to get
a sigmal caller.
Speaker 2 (08:54):
Yeah, I was, honestly, I was surprised, Tony, because you've
been fairly critical of quin Yours over the course of
the I think maybe that was you kind of fighting
back on people that were calling him a first round
there maybe, and that was kind of the source of
where you were coming from on it.
Speaker 1 (09:06):
But I was surprised to see you have him ahead
of Dart.
Speaker 3 (09:07):
To be honest with you, Well, top ten remember they
were we were in the New York area and people
were talking about the Giants taking Queen Yours as a
top ten pick. He was never that type of player.
He never was. I think what you weres The thing
about Dart is I like him as a quarterback, just
the physical skills. We didn't see the big arm that
has been my concern about Jackson Dart. If you take
Jackson Dart, I think you're giving a lot away with
(09:30):
the vertical game because he doesn't have that vertical arm
which quin viewers does. I mean, quinn Ewers is basically
a gun slinger.
Speaker 2 (09:37):
I was surprised told you that you with Leonard ahead
of McCord and Howard. I was surprised by that given
what we saw from him over the course of the year.
Speaker 3 (09:44):
See here's the thing about McCord and Howard that really
concerns me. It concerned me on film, it concerned me
when I saw him live. They have a tendency to
stare down the primary target. Both Ohio State guys who
played the port Ohiose at one point or another. Mccordy
was really bad staring down the primary target in two
thousan in twenty three. He did improve in twenty twenty four.
Will Howard same thing. I mean, it's very slow to
(10:05):
move their head from the primary target that will kill
you on someday. They got great physical skills. I think
that Riley Leonard really improved as a passer. We talked
about that. Jim Nagy also mentioned that really through the
second half of the twenty twenty four season, didn't have
great talent around him as far as the receivers were concerned.
At times was running for his life. But he's an
(10:28):
outstanding athlete who unlike McCord and Howard, the staring down
of the quarterback, slow moving your head from the primary target,
that is a big red flag for me.
Speaker 1 (10:38):
All right, fair enough?
Speaker 2 (10:39):
And then the guys at the back end, Tyler Shook, well,
I know some people were talking about as like a
day two pick off of the Senior Bowl, which I
think you know, he was fine the Senior Bowl. I
don't think nothing blew me away. Britty Cook from his
oor sor shrine. And then Dylan Gabriel Oregon, who you
all have for his Day three picks. All right, let
you go to the running back spot here, Tony. And
just to show you how deep it is, you listed
(10:59):
ten guys and we're not even out of the third
round here, dude, Like, how about sure how many other
third rounders or you might have after these top ten,
but this is a great group.
Speaker 1 (11:08):
You have Ashton genty obviously he is the first round.
Speaker 2 (11:11):
There, three second round picks in Caleb Johnson, Amari and
Hampton and Quinn Shawn Jenkins.
Speaker 3 (11:16):
Yeah, and actually Simpson and eighteen of my last third
round picks. Then he going to the fourth round of
Kyle Managy of Rutgers, And I mean, it's just the
opposite of last year, right because we didn't see going
into the draft. We didn't figure a quarterback would be
selected before a running back would be selected before the
third round. And you had one guy that was taken
late in round two coming off of major injury. And
(11:37):
the thing about this is it's a diverse group, if
I could use that word. I mean Ashton Genty is
a three down back, terrific pass catcher out of the backfield,
can pick and choose his way on the inside, has
a speed and agility to turn the corner. Is going
to grate as a top six player in this draft.
Probably he's not going to be selected into the mid
first round because of the valuization the way they value
(12:00):
running backs. Still an outstanding player. I have Caleb Johnson
rated higher than Omarrian Hampton primarily because I think Caleb
Johnson does a couple of things. He's got more versatile game.
He can turn the corner and get around the outside
with j O'maron Hampton struggles to do. I like them both,
but I think that Caleb Johnson in the past, we've
(12:21):
seen Iowa running backs that basically go downhill and are
fast cale Johnson can do that, but he also shows
the ability to make defenders miss. He also shows a
lot of creativity in his game, also shows himself to
be a solid pass catcher of the backfield for what
was really a bad Iowa offense.
Speaker 2 (12:38):
I don't think we've talked about Amari and Hampton Tony
more than like ten seconds on this podcast over the
last four or five months. So why don't you kind
of give a fans a breakdown of what he's all
about is I'm sure not a lot of people were
locked into North Carolina football this season, especially after Drake
May left last year.
Speaker 3 (12:54):
Big, powerful guy. I have an early second round grade
on him. Grinds it out on the inside those guys
that he's rarely brought down by the first defender, rarely
brought down by a single defender. Deceptively fast too. I mean,
if there's a lane, he's gonna run in the mid
four force. He can beat defenders into the open field.
Not a real good lateral runner, not a guy that's
(13:15):
going to turn the perimeter, which Johnson can do. He's
also a decent pass catcher out of the backfield. I
think if it was twenty years ago where running backs
were really highly prioritized. I think on Marion Hampton's potentially
late a mini first round pick, but because of the
fact that you know you want versatility, you want guys
who can run on the outside, who can turn the perimeter.
(13:37):
That's why Hampton's going to be downgraded a bit.
Speaker 2 (13:39):
Then you got Jenkins. We've talked about good between the tackles. Guy,
he's not gonna run great. We talked about him by
a bunch. Jordan James, Tony, I know, guy that is
close to your heart. And these third round picks are
good players.
Speaker 3 (13:49):
Man.
Speaker 2 (13:49):
I'm going to go through the six guys and you
can pick out how whoever you want to hit on
Jordan James, Damian Martinez, Cam Scattaboo, Treviaon Henderson, Dylan Simpson,
and then Trevor Aten.
Speaker 1 (14:01):
Some good players there, man.
Speaker 3 (14:03):
You know, I'll go start with the last one atn
Hey Dn looks hit or miss. I mean, you watch
some of the games where Georgia gave him the ball
and he was the primary offensive threat, and he's he's tremendous.
I mean, he creates the yardage on the inside, sets
up defenders and makes them miss. Has the agility to
turn the corner, tremendous pass catcher out of the backfield.
(14:23):
But there are games where he's just streaky, where he
runs east west rather than turning it up the field.
Travion Henderson, I spoke at at length. I have him
as a third rounder. Maybe he goes a little bit
later because of injuries. But the guy, well you gotta
do is watch Ohio State and when they need a
big play, he basically he produced camp Scattibow. I know
a lot of people love him, how can you not
like him? Reminds me a lot of Brian Leonard, who
(14:45):
was the second round pick out of Rutgers years ago. Big,
not a big down a toll guy, but a big
guy who loves physical contact. But again, the versatility, the
inability to turn the outside, turn the corner speed. Yeah,
he's a four to six guy, and that's and as
far as I'm concerned, reduces his appeal. I love Damian
Martinez and I know that he transferred from Oregon State
(15:08):
to Miami. They had good running backs there, so he
was not the feature runner. He was a situational runner,
and that may be good because he didn't get a
lot of wear and tear last year. But he is
a guy who's two hundred and forty pounds, but he
runs like he's two hundred and fifteen pounds. He's quick,
he's elusive, he makes defenders miss, terrific pass catcher of
the backfield. Again, I have him as a third round pick.
(15:28):
He could slide a little bit later, but as far
as I'm concerned, Martinez could be one of the steals
at the running back position, depending on where he selected.
Speaker 2 (15:37):
Yeah, I'll just throw one more thing there about atm
You know, I don't know if he was banged up
at the end of the year for Georgia. He didn't
seem to have that same type of pop that I
thought we saw for maybe when he was at Florida.
But at the Senior Bowl when we saw him Tony,
he had that pop again. He had some nice burst
to his game. So I wonder if he was playing
through something at the end of the year there, which
I think would be interesting if we could find that out.
Speaker 3 (15:55):
Two up and down. But again, I mean when you
watch him at the top of his game against teams
like Auburn, games against Auburn I mean he's a one
man show.
Speaker 1 (16:04):
Yeah, all right, let's go to tight end.
Speaker 2 (16:06):
And I think it's telling that we're gonna do tight
end before we do wide receiver, given the classes. But
you have seven tight ends here and all of them
are third round are better except for one Terrence Ferguson, who,
by the way, from Oregon. We talked about him on
a Senior Bowl review. I would have him in the
third round. So I think you're looking at seven potential,
you know, top three round tight ends here. There could
be more break down this list for me. You got
(16:27):
two first rounders and leveland and Warren, and I wonder
if Elijah Royal might start getting into that conversation too.
Speaker 3 (16:34):
I struggle. I can understand it after the Senior Bowl performance,
and I think he's gonna run spectacularly well, but he's
more of a moved tight end type. I don't you know,
you're not gonna use him as a blocker. You're probably
not gonna use clos You're probably not gonna use Closton
Loveland as a blocker all that much, although we can
he can black. No, Loveland is coming off of a
shoulder injury, and as far as i'm concerned. I have
(16:56):
him reading slightly higher than Warren. And I know everybody
likes warm, but I look at Loveland. He plays faster.
I'm sure he's going to run faster. He's more of
a natural pass catcher. That's nothing against Warren, It's just
that that's the way Loveland has played the past three
years at Michigan, which is why I have him grated
slightly higher. Want to see what the testing numbers are.
(17:18):
In my opinion, the guy who is kind of being
dismissed and ignored, who I think people are going to
scout you's going to fall in love with. Who's going
to be a terrific players of Randy Gatson of Syracuse
former receiver checks in at the Shrine Bowl six two
and a half, two hundred and forty seven pounds, thirty
three and a half inch arms, hands that are almost
(17:39):
ten inches and he plays the tight end position. Why
he played the receiver position, I mean, you watched the film.
We saw him at the Shrine Bawl. Just the natural
pass catcher, bloodlines, his dad was the receiver in the NFL.
He's just got to learn to be a complete tight end.
But the upside on this guy is absolutely sensational, and
(18:01):
I think he's gonna slip after the big names, the Lovelands,
the Warrens, your Warriors, the Mason Taylor, and he's gonna
go somewhere in the third round. He's got the potential,
in my opinion, to be a dynamic number one tight
end on Sunday.
Speaker 2 (18:12):
And then you have Harold Fannon Junior with him in
the third round as alt, who we talked a lot
about with our Senior Bowl review.
Speaker 1 (18:18):
All right, let's go to the wide receiver class here, Tony.
Speaker 2 (18:21):
I'm taking a look at this list here, and this
is not the type of classes we've seen in years past,
where you know, we only have seven players here with
first or seventh round grades, which I think last year
we were over ten with first or second round games
in the wide receiver spot. So your three first round
guys will start there are Travis Hunter, Tech McMillan, and
then Luther Burden.
Speaker 3 (18:44):
I mean Hunter is gonna be highly graded because of
the fact that he's a receiver who can also play cornerback.
That's the way I view him. Maybe I'm gonna watch
more film and I'll think otherwise, But when I watched
him at cornerback. He was solid, but there were a
lot of lapses there, and lapses at the cornerback position
on Sunday could lead to ruin. He's a natural receiver
who could also you know, return kicks. Won the Heisman Trophy.
(19:07):
I like Travis Hunter, but I don't think he's the
generational talent in this draft as other players in the past.
I think, you know, he's going to come in with
a lot of hypeend's going to be Travis Hunter twenty
four to seven headed towards the draft. He's a really
good player. I don't think he's a special talent as
far as an NFL prospect is concerned. I happen to
like Tech McMillan a lot, the receiver out of Arizona.
Speaker 2 (19:29):
Let me ask a totally real quick then, if Hunter
was just a wide receiver, would you have him rated
ahead of Tech McMillan.
Speaker 3 (19:35):
No. No, I think McMillan is much more. I mean,
he's got bigger, better, big playability. But McMillan, in my opinion,
is a game dominating, game controlling receiver played on an
Arizona offense that didn't have a lot of talent. The
defense knew the ball was going in his direction. They
couldn't stop him. Long arms, big hands, very natural. Remember,
(19:58):
Travis Hunter had a a lot of good talent around him.
I mean we saw three receivers and Shepherd, Jonte, and
Horn produced at the Shrine Bowl and they played very
well all three days at the Shrine Ball. I mean
in Arizona, McMillan was basically by himself and he didn't
have shudor Sanders draw on them the ball. Yet. He
(20:19):
was a dominant receiver the past two years. He's not
going to run super fast. I don't know that he's
going to test off the charts as far as the
three cone and the short shut and things like that.
He's just a big bodied, natural receiver who I think
is going to be a dominant game controller and also
a tremendous red zone threat.
Speaker 2 (20:38):
How about Burden, He was the guy that was talked
about as a top ten pick heading into the year.
He had a bit of a quiet year, dealt with
some injuries. Where do you think NFL teams see him?
And he's more of a run after catch guy. He's
very unpolished in terms of his rout tree.
Speaker 3 (20:51):
Yeah, and he's not super fast. He's got a good
bill five to eleven, two hundred and eight pounds. He
catches the ball very well. I mean, I think he's
got the potential to be a solid number one receiver,
but he's not a game breaking threat. He doesn't have
an expanded route tree. It's going to have to work
on some areas of his game. I think you're looking
as far as Burden's concern as a mid first round pick,
(21:14):
depending on what the New Orleans Saints do, all.
Speaker 1 (21:17):
Right, And then you have in the round one start
a round two.
Speaker 2 (21:20):
We've talked about a Mecca Buka, a good all round player,
solid wide receiver, Isaiah Bond. You talked about smaller guy
getna be really fast. That's one of these second round
guys who I think you're interesting. We have not talked
about them a ton. You have Matthew Golden out of Texas,
which you know a lot of people see him as
a first round there.
Speaker 1 (21:34):
I have not watched him yet.
Speaker 2 (21:36):
And then you have elc iamin Er out of Stanford,
who was supposed to be at the Senior Bowl ended
up not going.
Speaker 1 (21:42):
Those are two guys you have in around two.
Speaker 3 (21:45):
Gold is a guy that if we do the show again,
right before the draft could be rated much higher. I
got to watch a lot more of them, obviously, want
to see the testing numbers. People think he's the first rounder.
I'm not going to dismiss that opinion right now. I
just don't think I agree with that opinion right now.
That could change. I am man of some people had
him as a first round pick. I don't see you.
(22:07):
He's got decent size, he's got very good hands. The
speed and the quickness kind of concern. He's not beating
anybody down the field when you watch the game is explosive.
Speaker 2 (22:16):
It all like he's never like exploding past people, you
know what I mean.
Speaker 3 (22:20):
He's not overly quick. He's very good at catching the ball.
There's a place for that on Sunday. I just don't
think there's a place for that, you know, in the
top thirty two picks. And people at some point time
had him as a mid first rounder. Jalen Nowell, I mean,
I think he was tremendous at the Senior Bowl. I
had him as a Day three pick. With that speed,
(22:41):
with that quickness, with the ability to consistently separate from
defenders throughout the routes. I think that's going to help
his draft doc. I liked ty Felton, who had his
moments at the Senior Ball, wasn't a consistent dominant threat,
but he watched the film. He's supposed to run in
the low four fours. He shows himself to be a
good vertical receiver and he catches the underneath passes just
(23:03):
as well.
Speaker 2 (23:04):
Yeah, he was winning one on ones very consistently that week,
and he was catching everything. And then you have Jaden Higgins,
George Dakoby at of Miami, and Tes Johnson, guys that
we talked about in our Senior Bowl and shrin Bowl reviews.
You guys to go check out those shows if you
want more on that. All right, let's go to the
offensive line class here, Tony. And you know last year
was such a good offensive tackle class that were like, ah,
this year is not as good. But as I've looked
(23:25):
at more and more of these guys, you're still gonna
have a ton of offensive linemen picked in the first
three rounds and I think are gonna be pretty good
NFL players.
Speaker 3 (23:32):
And a lot of interior guys. I mean, the big
question mark is at the tackle position. Are these college
tackles going to be pushed into guard or even center.
You start at the top with Will Campbell. You know
a lot of people are projecting Will Campbell to play
guard because of arm length. I've not heard anything about
Will Campbell having arms under thirty three inches, the way
(23:53):
we did about Peter Skronsky, who we talked about years
ago on this podcast. In the lead up to the draft,
even before the comment, before the official measurements, I was
out there saying, I'm hearing he got thirty two inch arms.
I think it was thirty two and a half that
came to fruition. I can't I've not heard that about
Will Campbell except on the outside. We'll see what happens.
(24:14):
The thing what Campbell is this. He's athletic, he's long,
he moves well. He can be a good pass protector.
He just doesn't block with the nasty attitude. That's something
I said early in the season on these podcasts in
September when we were watching Will Campbell. That's gonna be
a concern from teams. He's gonna be drilled about that
at the combine. Why aren't you working to finish off
(24:35):
block of defenders. Why does it seem that you're standing
around the times rather than really trying to knock somebody
on their rear end. And then you got guys like
Kelvin Banks, Josh Connolly, I got another tackle in between there.
Who college tackles do they project to guard? My opinion
is leave them at left tackle until they prove they
(24:56):
can't play left tackle. But they're both athletic guys who
move incredibly well where I think would be a terrific
in his own blocking system, have a high upside. They're
just not long, tall, big bodied tackles, which a lot
of teams like. And then, as far as I'm concerned,
Josh Simmons is the is the variable here. He's the
(25:17):
guy who could go much earlier than people think. If
he gets good medical reports on that knee injury that
knocked him out during New Yorkgan game, or if the
reports come back bad, he could go later. Fact is this,
if Josh Simmons played a full season and he continued
to develop as he was early in the two thousand
and four season. Off of twenty twenty three, in my opinion,
(25:38):
Josh Simmons is probably the first offensive tackle take him
and a definite first round pick. He's athletic, fundamentally sound,
tremendous pass protector, shows the ability to get on second
level block in motion. Needs to improve his strength. But
we now have a situation where he was injured, a
season ending injury in October, which is sort of a
red flag and a variable that teams will look at.
Speaker 1 (26:01):
Differently, no question. All right.
Speaker 2 (26:03):
Then we got a bunch of guys here that we
talked about in our Senior Bowl review Marcus Bow Arman Membo, Well,
I want to ask you about it? Is he as
he wasn't there? Ariante Urser talked about Jonah seven, THEA.
We talked about Wyatt Milan, We talked about Grey's able,
We talked about so three guys that wanted to Senior Bowl.
They could be available top of the second round. Tyler Booker,
(26:24):
the guard out of Alabama. Arman Membo, you haven't listened
as a guard, and a lot of people think of me,
think he's a tackle, so do I out of Missouri.
And then you have Donovan Jackson, you have a third
round grade on him out of Ohio State. Your thought
kind of on that group and how you think they
might look on day two?
Speaker 3 (26:42):
Booker could go round one. I mean he is a
big bodied guy. Want to see his measurements, you know,
is he in the mid to high three forties and
how does he run? He is a guy that once
he's engaged at the point of attack with a defender
came over, he controls the opponents at the point of attack.
He's a dominant roun blocker. Was also very good and
(27:02):
pass protection. Surprisingly, he shows some ability when asked to
kick out and pull across the line of scrimmage. But again,
the three hundred and forty pounds size, it didn't hurt
JC Latham last year. We'll see how teams look at that.
Want to see what his official I say three forty
eight because that's what he's estimated to be at. We'll
see what his official measurements are at the combine, if
(27:24):
in fact he measures, and we'll see what his testing
numbers are. As far as membos concern I think maybe
the measurements at the Senior Bawl before he had to
pull out with what was reported as hood poisoning may
may kind of ease my concerns as far as him
playing tackle at the next level. But going back to
the twenty twenty three film when I first rated him,
(27:44):
I always thought he was going to be a guard
because he's a little bit shorter than everybody else. But
he's powerful, he's explosive, he controls one on one blocking.
He's also very good on his feet, gets out to
the second level and come block in motion. Donovan Jackson,
you know we talked about Josh Simmons. Well, what happened
was when Josh Simmons went down a couple gay a
couple of games later, Donovan Jackson had to slide out
(28:05):
from guard to left tackle and he did a decent job.
And prior to that, he was actually doing a terrific
job at offensive guard. Coming into the twenty twenty three season,
a lot of people thought Donovan Jackson could be a
first round pick, but he had a terrible campaign in
twenty twenty three, made the right choice, went back to school,
had a real good campaign at guard, and then was
(28:27):
okay to tackle. I project him strictly as a guard.
The only reason I have him rated lower in my
offensive line rankings is because there's so many guys ahead
of him. I mean, you mentioned it. It's a pretty
deep class. We just don't have any We don't have
the numbers, the quality, or the quantity at the offensive
tackle position, which is what a lot of people want
(28:49):
to see.
Speaker 2 (28:50):
Yeah, so, just so fans though, you have Ursery seven
Am Millium with second round grades Zabels kind of a
two to three.
Speaker 1 (28:55):
Then you have Donovan Jackson, Dylan Fairchild.
Speaker 2 (28:58):
A guard out of Georgia, Emery Jones of LSU tackle guard,
Cameron Williams, Texas tackle. We've talked about him a lot
as third rounders, along with Charles Grant, and then Anthony
Belton who had a nice senior Bowl from North Carolina
State as a third fourth round pick. Draft season is
brought to you by Moody. He's a proud partner of
the New York Football Giants. Decode Risk, Unlock Opportunity. Learnmore
(29:19):
at Moody's dot com. All right, Toty, let's up to
the defensive side, hole ball, defensive tackle. We haven't had
a good defensive tackle class in a while in my opinion,
Why don't your rapid fires through your top ten here?
And then we could dive into players in more detail.
Speaker 3 (29:33):
Well, Mason Grant first round choice going to be a
top ten pick is number one. Kenneth Grant, who I
like a lot, who I think could actually be a
better player two or three years down the road, also
has a first round grade. Walter Nolan has a first
round grade despite the fact I thought he was disappointing
during the Senior Ball, and then ty Leek Williams of
Ohio State also as a first round grade. After that,
(29:54):
I got Derek Harmon as a late first early second rounder, TJ.
Sanders South Carolina as the second Dion Walker who's falling
fast as a late second rounder, ty Robinson of Nebraska
who can play a variety of spots up front as
a early third rounder, and then Jordan Phillips of Maryland,
the nose tackle type who showed a lot of athleticism
(30:15):
during shrine Bol practices. He also has a third round grade.
Speaker 1 (30:18):
It's a great group.
Speaker 2 (30:19):
Tony Mason Graham, do you see him as kind of
the next position player up after we talk about the
Travis Hunters and Abdull Carter. Is he in that next
group with the tech mcmillans and kind of that next
group of position players.
Speaker 3 (30:33):
Yeah, I have. I'm looking at my overall board right now,
and that's the wrong one. I'm hang on one second here,
I'm looking at my overall board right now and Mason
Graham is number five, So yeah, I will talk about
Jally McMillan, but he's right there with Tech McMillan, Will Johnson,
Will Campbell, MIKEL Williams. I would be surprised if Graham
(30:58):
gets out of the top eight of the draft.
Speaker 2 (31:00):
All right, And then when you think Grant is going
to start getting thought about by teams given his size
and athleticism, yeah, I.
Speaker 3 (31:07):
Think somewhere between twelve to eighteen. Maybe he tests much
better and he surprises. This thing goes earlier. I think
the way to compare Graham versus Grant is Mason Graham
is the safer pick. Mason Graham is the sure thing.
You know what you're getting with Mason Graham. Kenneth Grant
(31:29):
is bigger, he's more athletics, he's more explosive, but he's
not nearly as polished. So when sometimes when you get
those bigger defensive tackles three hundred and forty plus pounds,
they can go either way. I love Kenneth Grant. I mean,
Kenneth Grant's a guy that, while Mason Graham is explosive
up the field, about.
Speaker 2 (31:47):
That, it's probably something again trying to tell Tony about
one of his players, and Tony's always on the phone
trying to get info on these guys.
Speaker 1 (31:54):
Man.
Speaker 3 (31:55):
While Mason Graham is more explosive up the field, Kenneth
Grant can get out on the chase to play in pursuit.
So that's why I say Grant's got more upside than
Mason Graham, which means two or three years he could
potentially be the better player.
Speaker 2 (32:12):
Interesting, all right, and then you have Tyler Williams you mentioned,
and Walter Nolan Derek Harmon with a borderline first round grade.
You're looking at it like seventeen twenty to thirty two
for those guys.
Speaker 3 (32:24):
I think both. I think Nolan is somewhere bottom half
around one. I think Tyler Williams is bottom half a
round one. I think Harmon, if he gets in a
fresh round, which I think is a definite possibility, is
bottom half around one. Remember, defensive tackle is a priority
positioned come draft d A. I mean, people talk about
the quarterbacks because in the media, but teams want to
(32:46):
see left tackles, which we don't really think we have
that many of this year. Cornerbacks, which we don't think
we have that many of this year and defensive tackles,
and there are a good number of defensive tackles that
could end up as Round one picks. Yeah.
Speaker 2 (32:58):
I mean there are people that think now Tony, to
be honest with you, that having a really good pass
rushing three technique is more valuable than having an edge
rusher now, because you're closer to the quarterback.
Speaker 3 (33:07):
Not only that is you know you got guys in
the middle who can occupy the blockers and that will
free things up for your edge rushers on the outside.
Speaker 1 (33:14):
All right, And then we talked about Dean Walker a bunch. TJ.
Speaker 2 (33:16):
Sanders was at the Senior Bowl. I don't think we
talked about him in our Senior Bowl review. I thought
he was pretty good. I don't think he like jump
out of Me is like WHOA like TJ.
Speaker 1 (33:24):
Sanders. Unbelievable but good, solid player.
Speaker 3 (33:27):
He has the ability to be incredible. You go whack
and you watch and I don't great gut players on
one game alone. You shouldn't do that. But you go
back and you watch TJ. Sanders in twenty twenty three
against Georgia, good Georgia offensive line, and he was dominant
and he has the ability just to take over games.
He's got good size, he's incredibly quick. He's also a
very athletic. And what that means is he can actually
(33:50):
play in a variety of systems. He can play in
a foreman front, he can play in a three man front.
And you know, you he's consistently making or I shouldn't
say consistently, but he has the ability to basically take
over games and make game changing type of plays. Yep.
Speaker 2 (34:05):
And then you have Deon Walker, who he talked a
lot about. We know him, Ty Robinson, We've talked about
a lot. Jordan Phillips out of Maryland. He was a trime.
We talked about him in the Shrine Review. Yye Block
from Iowa. Josh Farmer, Florida State, Warren Brinston, Georgia. All
Senior Bowl and Shrine Bowl guys. We talked about all
those guys on previous programs. All right, let's go to
the defensive end position, Tony. This is mostly your bigger,
(34:28):
you know, guys that play the edge. And then we
have some of the outside linebackers in your next group
that are more of the stand up pass rusher types.
It's not you know, you know, just have a ton
of big defensive ends anymore. A lot of these pass
rushers are two hundred and fifty punds, stand up guys.
But you do have some pretty good players here, and
some and many that could go in the first round.
Speaker 3 (34:45):
I think what you have here is you have guys
that have a lot of ability but need to finish
their games, really need to polish their games. Mikel Williams,
Nick Scourton, Michael Green of Marshall, who you could easily
put on an outside linebacker board. I do defensive end
outside linebacker versus edge because I'm old school and I'm
cut at stubborn. But those three guys, you know, are
(35:07):
terrific hats rushers who just got to get bigger and
stronger and complete their games. Same thing with you know,
Chimar Turner of Texas A and m Shimar Stewart have size,
They've shown ability, but again they need to elevate their games.
Those guys real quick.
Speaker 1 (35:23):
You have you have Turner is an end, not a tackle, huh.
Speaker 3 (35:26):
Two hundred and ninety pounds I mean in three man front,
I think he could play both end or tackle. But again,
both of those guys have got tremendous ability. They just
have to, you know, step up their game. Where the
next guy on my board is JT two and Mela
of Ohio State, who has shown the ability to be
a dominant player the past two years at Ohio State.
(35:48):
He's there, he just needs consistency. He's more polished than
the guys which I just mentioned. But the problem with
to him Moloe is he's not He's very streaky. You know,
he'll show up and he'll dominate a couple of series,
helped dominate a ham and then he will disappear or
for stretches, which you know is a problem. Came back
(36:09):
to Oileo State did win a national championship. I don't
know that he's improved his draft grade from where it
was a year ago.
Speaker 2 (36:16):
Yeah, and then you have Landon Jackson in the second round,
someone we talked about. He's the Senior Bowl. Jordan Birch
is someone that we've talked about for two years. The
hell on this show, Tony a bigger guy at two
hundred ninety four pounds and then tyron Ingram Dawkins I
think is interesting.
Speaker 1 (36:30):
With him in the third round, he was at the
Senior Bowl. We didn't really talk much about him.
Speaker 2 (36:33):
Baron Sorel out of Texas, he was there, and then
Ashton j a Loot out of Louisville. We talked more
about last year than this year. Anybody who want to
feature from that last group.
Speaker 3 (36:42):
Well, I mean, Birch, you don't know what you're getting Burch,
just like some of the guys I've talked about before.
If Jordan Birch had played the way he was capable
of this season, he's a top fifteen pick. He's a
mid first round pick. There was a lot of inconsistency.
There's a lot of injury, but when he's on the field,
he's dominant. He just doesn't do it enough, and a
lot of it is because he's injured. Tyler Ingram Dawkins
(37:05):
is a terrific pass rushing edge. Kind of surprised he
entered the draft. He shows a lot of speed, He
shows a place with great leverage and ped level. Just
needs to get a little stronger. It just needs a
bigger body of work. Astin Gillette, I mean, is he
an end is the defensive tackle. I was down on
him because the stats weren't there this year compared to
(37:27):
last year when he blew it up. But when you
watch him you see a lot of quickness, you see
a lot of explosion, you see a lot of upside potential.
I think with Gillette two and a half and a
half two hundred and seventy five pounds, it's just a
fit sort of thing. It's a scheme the type of situation.
Are you gonna use him as a defensive end in
a format front, which is basically what he played at Louisville.
(37:48):
Are you gonna kick him inside? You're you gonna put
it put him in a three man front. I just
think he needs to be put in the right system.
Speaker 1 (37:53):
Now, I'm with you kind of a tweener.
Speaker 2 (37:55):
You got to figure out where that body type fits
in on your defensive line. All right, look at the
linebacker Tony and this is a nomination of off ball
guys and handing the dirt edge rusher. So I don't
know how you want to separate them your your first
three guys, though Jayalen Walker has done both, or guys
that play more at the hand in the dirt on
the outside.
Speaker 3 (38:14):
I mean, Abdul Carter is going to be a very
early pick. He was. He's been my number one player
on my board for the longest time. I'm glad to
see the other people are starting to agree with that.
Speaker 1 (38:21):
Man caught off to you, Tony, Tony, you're a trendsetter, man,
you are, you are setting the trends, dude. People are
following you along. Man, you like the pied Piper.
Speaker 3 (38:29):
Just right right. Remember just spell my name correctly on
the check when you send it to me, please. I
thought that Penn State kind of did Abdul Carter disservice
lining them up at Defense Van. I understand why they
did it. They did it because that's what they needed
for them to win. But Abdul Calrter is much more
than an edge rusher. I mean, he is a guy
that complaints space. You go back and watch the twenty
(38:49):
twenty three film when he was basically a linebacker, and
he can do it all. Jalen Walker granted, I have
sentimental feelings towards his play because when I watched them
over with the song and when he was a backup
in twenty twenty three, I said, watch this guy. There's
always one player that pops up, you know, in April,
and the talking heads will say, hey, this guy's gonna
(39:10):
go much earlier. I think it's gonna be Jalen Walker.
All he's got to do is test well. But when
you watch the film on Jalen Walker, he's an explosive
pass rusher. I mean to the point where he's beating
offensive tackles, bigger offensive tackles with inside moves, not just
wide edge rushers. But he also makes plays in space.
I mean he's tremendous speed. Laterally in pursuit he gets
(39:31):
depth on his past drops. I have Jaalen Walker highly
highly rated. I mean when I say highly raded, he's
in my top six as far as overall players. Let's
see what happens. I have a feeling that Walker is
a guy that's going to be talked about as we
move towards the draft.
Speaker 2 (39:45):
Yeah, way, people, some people have I started interrupting some
people of Michael Williams ahead of him, his teammate out
of Georgia head of Jayalen Walker.
Speaker 1 (39:52):
I don't see it. I've watched both guys. I just
I don't think Walker just is.
Speaker 2 (39:56):
So much more burst and athleticism to him than than
Williams does, at least my opinion.
Speaker 3 (40:00):
And he's strong for his size, and he can do
more things. Listen, you could put Jalen Walker on the
field on third and six, and you can use them
as a pass rusher or you can use them a coverage.
You put Michael Williams on the field in third six,
it's strictly as a pass rusher. So that's why I
really like Jalen Walker. James Pierce. I am not as
high as other people are. Yeah he's passed, Yeah he's
(40:23):
a terrific pass rusher, but he's thin. I mean he's
a small guy and that's not really gonna work. Well.
He's gonna have to get bigger, he's gonna have to
get stronger, and he's gonna have to keep that quickness
and speed on the field. John Campbell, if there is
he hands down the best off ball space linebacker, if
you will, whatever you like to call it. I mean,
he is the guy that whether it's stacking against the run,
(40:46):
whether it's covering the pass, he's not a bad pass rusher.
They didn't use him in that capacity too much at
Alabama because they didn't need to, but he was the
guy that you know on third and six, can cover
tight ends down the field, covers a lot of air,
very athletic, your first you know, traditional say four to
three week side of strong side type linebacker.
Speaker 2 (41:08):
And then you have four straight up second round picks.
One is Ola Fami Oladaijo. He's your one, two, three, four, five,
sixth ranked player here. He's in the second round. We
talked a ton about him. Then the other three guys
are all off ball linebackers. Danny Stutsman out of Oklahoma,
Nick Martin out of Oklahoma State, and then course In
Swesinger out of UCLA.
Speaker 3 (41:26):
Tony Yeah, Stutsman is Stutsman is that he's a studd.
I mean he is a tough, stout run defender. Didn't
play in the Senior boat because he was injured. I
know there was a legitimate injury late in the season.
The question with him is coverage, and we saw a
lot of linebackers fail and coverage. But again, a real
good two down linebacker who has the athleticism to develop
(41:46):
into coverage. Nick Martin is a personal favorite of mine.
I know he struggled some injuries points this year, but
I mean he is an explosive sideline to sideline guy
who will fire up the field defending the run of
rushing the passer, who can also cover covered tight ends
in passing downs, swassengers interesting. There are a lot of
people who like him. I mean again sort of like
(42:08):
Jah Carter, jahadd Campbell in the sense that he is
a pure off the ball linebacker, you know, ten fifteen
yards down the field in coverage, pursuing the plays. Laterally,
it's gonna be in pulled out of the Senior Bowl late,
which I know, which was a big disappointment to teams
because they wanted to see him a person. Be interesting
to see how he tests. He's gonna run relatively well.
(42:28):
He's got good playing speed, but teams are gonna want
to see decent forty times as well at the combine.
Speaker 2 (42:33):
Then you have done him in as Araku out of
Boston College, Tony as a borderline second round early third
round pick, Barry Carter of Clemson that thing we talked
about last year as an off ball guy, speed guy,
silent the sideline. And then you have the Kyle Kurdard
and Jack Sawyer two kind of solid edges we've talked about.
And would you have prince ly human Mialen kind of
in this group two kind of in that range.
Speaker 3 (42:54):
Yeah, I mean he's basically a step down. I have
him as a fourth rounder. I mean flan ability at
the senior ball, but really we didn't show a lot
of consistency, and that is the mo for his college career.
I mean, there were times where he just took over games,
and then there's other series other half of the games
where you're like, was this guy even on the field.
(43:16):
So I think that's gonna be a big concern for teams.
He's got great potential, though I can understand why why
people would like him. I just don't see the consistency there.
Speaker 2 (43:25):
All right, let's jump to the defensive backstone, and you've
sorted the corners in safeties together. This is not a
great group this year. I think you're probably you might
only have one first round pick. Malki Starks at safety
could slide into this first round, I think still, and
I think that's a good chance.
Speaker 1 (43:39):
So maybe one corner, one safety. Why don't you break
it down for us?
Speaker 2 (43:42):
Why don't we go through the corners first and then
we'll kind of split the safeties off a little bit.
Speaker 3 (43:48):
Will Johnson, you go back in the twenty twenty three
film on Will Johnson. He looks like a top ten pick.
You go in twenty twenty four You're like, what happened?
And it was. It's a question of was it a
schematic thing because you was consistently playing backed off the
line of scrimmage, manoff coverage, and he was giving up
a lot of receptions. So it's gonna be it's gonna
(44:08):
be determined between it's gonna be. He's gonna be asked
about it, as is his defensive coordinator, Wink Martindale as
to you know, was this the game plan with Will
Johnson because he gave up a lot of receptions this
year and he was constantly backed off the line of scrimmage.
But again the twenty twenty three film, he was absolutely dominant, dominant.
Then there's Ben Morrison, who started off slowly had the
(44:30):
hip injury, but a can you go back to the
two tenty twenty three film when he was at the
top of his game and he was like, Wow, I mean,
this guy is a shutdown top fifteen pick at the
cornerback position because he was so good. Shotton Revel, I
think Revel was the guy who his game was progressing
incredible size speed numbers. It's gonna go about six foot two,
(44:51):
one hundred and ninety pounds legitimately runs in the four threes.
I saw a lot of development in his game, especially
was with his ability to plays with his back to
the ball and get his head back around track to
pass in the air in the early part of twenty
twenty four, but he suffered the knee injury in practice
which kind of ended his season. So he's kind of
(45:13):
a wild card as far as the draft is concern.
And then one of my favorite guys and someone who
I think can go much higher than everyone thinks is
ja Jahade Baron of Texas played a little nickel, played
on the edge. Did it all very very well?
Speaker 2 (45:28):
Yeah, And you know those are your guys that you
have at corner in the first and second round. And
then you have Treomos kind of coming in at the
back end of that second round, Tony and then Kobe Bryant,
a guy that we saw at Kansas.
Speaker 1 (45:39):
This is funny.
Speaker 2 (45:40):
I was rewatching some of the wide receiver dB one
on ones at the Senior Bowl. Tray Amos like this
disappears like I feel like midway through the week and
I didn't even notice it at the time. When I
rewatched the table, I'm like, why is it?
Speaker 1 (45:51):
Tre Amos taking more reps.
Speaker 3 (45:54):
And you know, some people had him as a mid
first round pick. I never saw with tre Ambos. I
just thought he was in a nice cornerback. Remember Mississippi's
his third school started at Louisiana, then went to Alabama,
that played last year at Mississippi, and I always thought
he was a nice cornerback with upside. I just never
saw a polished player that deserved you know, top thirty
two mentioned in this game, you mentioned, you know, he
(46:16):
was basically uninspired at the Senior Ball. Then he went
down with the injury, walked back into the locker room
and we didn't see him again.
Speaker 2 (46:23):
Yeah, and then Maxwell Harriston laya Kobe Bryant Harriston. We
talked to him at the Senior Bowl. Brian did a
great job at the Shrine Bowl as potential third rounders.
And how about safety Tony Obviously this is not a
class that year head over here is over now.
Speaker 3 (46:36):
I mean Malachi Starks at Georgia, very athletic, very explosive,
shows some ability when he's placed over the slot receiver,
though he's got to polish his ball skills. One of
the more natural free safeties, if you will, center fielders,
and this year's draft probably the only natural center fielder
that's going to go early in the draft. It's going
(46:56):
to be some people had him as an early first
round pick. I think more mid to bottom half. Maybe
team the Miami Dolphins desperately need a safety. Colts could
use the safety, so I think he goes somewhere in
that range. And then you have in Nick Emminawari of
South Carolina and Malik Verden of Iowa State. You've got
your linebacker side safeties. You've got your natural strong safeties
(47:19):
who also show solid ball skills. I mean, these guys
can make plays when the balls in the air. They're
just not up the field run defending safeties. It'll be
interesting to see when teams select these guys, do they
draft them as safeties or are they drafting him drafting
either of these guys as linebackers, specifically one gap linebackers,
(47:40):
because that's been the trend the past five six years
or so.
Speaker 2 (47:44):
Hi, Tony, is you continuing and soon completing all your
filmwork on this class? Anything else jump out at you
in general about this class that that you think fan
should No one understands well.
Speaker 3 (47:54):
I mean we talked about the top guys. But what
I think is going to happen I've said before, and
I apologize if I'm being redundant, is there is great
depth in the later rounds of Day three. I mean
and late in the draft. There's gonna be a lot
of depth because of the fact that that COVID year
is ending and you're gonna have a lot of fifth, sixth,
and even seven year seniors. And what's gonna happen at
(48:17):
the end of the draft where people really don't pay
too much attention, is you're gonna have guys who are
not selected, who have drafta book graades, just like you're
only gonna have three hundred and twenty five guys to combine,
and you could literally give out four hundred and fifty
invitations because the guys are deserving. So while you don't
have the great quality of the knockout quality at the top,
say as we did last year, it's gonna be a
lot of good depth later on in Day three.
Speaker 2 (48:40):
Tony always a pleasure, my friend, will be back with
your mock draft next week. And if folks we want
to send in questions for Tony and I send them
into our Twitter handles.
Speaker 1 (48:49):
I'm at Schmelk Tony, what's your Twitter.
Speaker 3 (48:50):
Handle at Tony Pauline.
Speaker 2 (48:53):
There we go nice and easy. We keep it simple
for you guys, So send then your questions. I'll put
a tweet up. You can reply to that as well.
At some point at the end of the day on
and next week, at some point, get those questions in.
We'll do that in Tony's mock draft. Then we'll have
our Combine preview. I'll see Tony down there. He'll jump
on Big B Killef live with us when we're in Innianapolis.
I'm getting all mixed up, and then we'll do our
(49:14):
Cobbyed review when we get back, probably on Tuesday, because
I think offensive linemen are doing Monday workouts right or
something like that.
Speaker 1 (49:21):
Are they Sunday Sunday?
Speaker 3 (49:22):
Sunday late Sunday? Okay, I'm I'm taking a late flight
out Sunday so to make sure I catch them up.
Because last year they had the specialists that the kickers
go before the offensive lineman, and the offensive lineman didn't
start to like afternoon on Sunday and a lot of
just about everybody left. So this year I think they
pushed the specialist to Friday, and it's the offensive lineman
(49:45):
have the field all to themselves on Sunday.
Speaker 2 (49:47):
Yeah, I'm leaving on Friday night, so I will watch
those drills. Luckily, NFL Network does a great job broadcasting
all of those drills and they show all the players.
So I will have that on the DVR and I
will sort through that over the weekend and then Tony
and I will review that on the Monday after the combine,
but two more shows before then. Make sure you come
in and check us out. It's all brought to you
by Moody's, a proud sponsor of the New York Giants.
For Tony Pauline, I'm John Schmulck. We will see you
(50:08):
next week.
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