Draft Season | Top 10 Defensive Rankings

John Schmeelk and Tony Pauline give some updates on pro days and discuss the top 10 defensive prospects in each position group in the draft.

:00 - Pro day updates

5:44 - Defensive linemen

19:34 - Edge players

33:34 - Linebackers

39:18 - Cornerbacks

46:24 - Safeties

52:18 - Defensive class overview

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Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:03):
It's now officially open. This is Draft Season presented by
mood He's a proud part of the New York Giants Dcode, Risk,
Unlocked Opportunity. Learn more in Moodies dot com. I am
John Schmulck, who's always joined by Tony Pauline from sports
key to dot com. As we are now when this

(00:23):
post about two weeks until the twenty twenty five NFL Draft,
Tony Pauline, how are you man? We're in the stretch.

Speaker 2 (00:30):
Run here, can't get here fast enough? I mean, you know,
we literally you have the craziness of the Shrine Ball
and the Senior Ball, right and it's it's non stop
go and a little bit of time off or time off,
you're watching a lot of film, doing a lot of
scattering reports, and then it's from the combine on through
the month month of March. It's just insane. And now

(00:51):
it's waiting. I mean, Phil Matha, the running back from Clemson,
had his individual forte because he was injured, and he
did well with I believe next week you're gonna have
Jalen Walker. Mickel Williams. Michael Williams of George is supposed
to work out Cameron Williams, the big offensive lineman from Texas,
is gonna try and get a workout in. So Benjamin

(01:14):
Morrison is looking to get a workout in before the draft.

Speaker 1 (01:18):
Yeah, I just got announced Ashley the twenty first. It
looks like so the Monday before the draft.

Speaker 3 (01:22):
All right, So he had that hip injury and you know.

Speaker 2 (01:28):
We'll wait and see it and then the draft is upon us.
The twenty first is the day after Easter for those
of us who celebrate the other at LA and I
know that they were trying to I spoke with their
agents after the Notre Dame protat that we're gonna try
and fit it in with the tenant with the Georgia workouts.
The two guys are just mentioned, as well as Cameron Williams.

Speaker 1 (01:47):
We are alive from the Hackensack and Meridian Health podcast studio.
Keep getting Better. Today we're gonna do a little more
news because we had the Colorido pore dlay last week.
We'll touch on that quickly, and then we're gonna do
our top tens on defense. Last week we did offense,
this week, we will do defense. I tried to get
through as many guys as I could to keep up
with Tony, I'm gonna be short on the linebacker in

(02:08):
safety positions, which those are the guys I always do last.
And glad to get Tony's top tens. And we'll debate
back and forth on some of these guys. But Tony.
Colorado's pro day was the last week. They called it
the showcase for shud Or Sanders, Travis Hunter, who didn't
do any testing, didn't run any routes. He did run routes,
did not do any testing, and then you had the

(02:28):
other Colorado wide receivers catching passes from should Or Sanders
as well. What was your takeaway from what you saw?

Speaker 2 (02:34):
Well, the big takeaway was, you know, with Travis Hunter
trying to send a message because he did receiver position work,
but he didn't do any defensive.

Speaker 3 (02:41):
Back position work.

Speaker 2 (02:42):
You know, was that a message that hey, I want
to play receiver at the next level or was it
just a matter of circumstance Because Colorado has three other
receivers there and the John Tay Wester and Jimmy Horn
and Will Shepherd who we all saw at we all
saw at the shrine ball who played well or Day
three draft picks and if they're not Day three draft

(03:03):
picks in case of Will Sheppard is going to be
swiped up quickly as a priority free agent. So what,
in my opinion, you know, or what I'm asking is,
was that planned by Hunter. I'm just gonna work out
with the receivers. I'm not going to do any defensive
back drills, or he didn't do any defensive back drills
because he doesn't want to get exposed. I mean, this
is a guy who, you know, if you're watching the
past two years, rarely ever backpedaled. And if you watch

(03:25):
those position drills, whether it be at the Senior Bowl,
whether it be at the Combine, you know, the pedal
turn run, pedal transition run.

Speaker 3 (03:33):
That's something that they emphasize that.

Speaker 2 (03:35):
In fact, that's the first position drill that they do
with the defensive backs at the combine, backpedal transition, flip
your hips to the left and transition to run forward
and then do it again with your flip your hips.

Speaker 3 (03:47):
To the right.

Speaker 2 (03:48):
And you know it was it something where he just
didn't do it because he doesn't want to get exposed.
That's interesting. The other the three receivers that I mentioned
worked out very well. I think they all help themselves
some of them time for the set. For the set,
we'reund the forty a second time from the combine caught
the ball well, I mean Shadors Sanders. We were texted
back and forth. Passes were a little bit wobbly. Buddy

(04:10):
through some nice balls, especially downfield. I thought he was accurate.
I thought the time was there. But you know, he's
into the friendly confines of a place where he's practiced
the past two years with the receivers that he's been
throwing to for the most part the past twenty four months.
So you better have a good groade workout throwing the ball.

Speaker 1 (04:27):
Yeah, I don't think I moved the needle either way.
When you talk to agents, Tony and scouts and stuff
like that, if Travis and I'm not he's plenty fast.
I'm just curious, what do you think his forty time
would be if he ran.

Speaker 2 (04:39):
He was estimated at about a four or five to
three guy. And I remember I mentioned to you, and
I would suggest anybody you go back and you watch
this game against Central Florida and there's a play I
think midway through the second quarter. It was the second
possession for Central Florida were RJ. Harvey broke into the

(05:01):
open field down the left side. I remember this play
and ran away from Travis Hunter. Travis Hunter could not
catch him. So go back and watch that game. I'm
sure you can catch it on YouTube. Find it on
YouTube somewhere. And like I said, midway through the second
quarter open field, RJ. Harvey just ran away from Travis Hunter.
If he didn't run away, Travis Hunter made up no ground,

(05:23):
so he's estimated. Travis Hunter has always been estimated as
a low four or five guy five four to two,
five four to three in that area, which is probably
one of the reasons why Travis Hunter didn't run. Is
Tyler Warren didn't run, and a few other guys didn't
want run because they they're not going to exceed expectations.

Speaker 1 (05:40):
Yeah, watching him, I had him somewhere between, like just
off tape. I was seeing somewhere between like four four
eight and four five two. That's kind of where I
had him in my head where I thought he would landslide.
So occasionally AA blind score final in eight court exactly.
All right, so you already get to our defensive top
tens here.

Speaker 3 (05:57):
Tone, Let's do it all right.

Speaker 1 (05:58):
Let's do it all right. As mentioned we did our
offensive ones last week. This is why RJ. Tony should
have had RJ. Harvey and is in his top ten
or running back, but he's he's a hater, so he
didn't should have been there. But that's okay. I think
we can all survive with that, all right, ton, Let's
get to it here. You want to start our defensive
tackles first, outside linebackers. How do you want to work this?

Speaker 3 (06:19):
Well, let's start.

Speaker 2 (06:21):
I wrote tradition rather than have defensive tackles defensive ends,
outside linebackers, inside linebackers. I kind of went along with
the crowd and I set up this show anyway for
defensive line edge rushers.

Speaker 3 (06:30):
So let's do defensive lineman first.

Speaker 1 (06:32):
All right, So let's do it. What's your top ten?

Speaker 2 (06:34):
Number one b Mason Graham, who is going to be
a top eight pick, could be a top five pick,
the defensive tackle from Michigan. After that, I have Kenneth
Grant from Michigan, Walter Nolan from Mississippi, Derek Harmon from Oregon,
Kayleeque Williams from Ohio State. All those guys are pretty
much clumped together. Schamar Turner of Texas A and m

(06:56):
Landon Jackson, who was more, in my opinion, a pure
fourth red defensive end.

Speaker 3 (07:01):
TJ.

Speaker 2 (07:02):
Sanders of South Carolina, Alfred Collins of Texas and Ty
Robinson of Nebraska one of my favorites, and Joshua Farmer
of Florida State.

Speaker 1 (07:13):
All right, I think that's a really good list there.
And then just outside your top ten, we'll get to
those guys as well, Darius Alexander, Jordan Phillips, Omar Norman Lott,
Ashton Jelot, Dion Walker. So a bunch of guys we
talked about before, so we can touch on those guys
as well. All right. Mason Graham of One Tony is
not a surprise. You know, he's not the biggest, most
athletic guy. He's still I don't think he's done any

(07:34):
testing yet right since un post draft process, so we'll
never get numbers on him, which is fine. He's just
a really good football player. Grant, we've talked about really big.
I don't know if he is quite the promise of
a Dexter Lawrence. I'm not sure if he's that good athletically,
but he certainly is kind of in that category. And
then your other first round pick is Walter Nolan. Why
do you have no one great at higher than Derek Harmon,

(07:56):
Because I watch both guys. I like Harmon better. He's
a good fifteen to twenty pounds heavier, and I just
think he is a little bit more passed us variety
to his game.

Speaker 2 (08:04):
Yeah, you know, Nolan did not stand out at the
Senior Bowl. In fact, you could say he had a
bad senior ball. But when you watch the film, he's
just a playmaker in the SEC. He's constantly penetrating the
offensive line, making tackles behind the line of scrimmage. If
he's not sacking the quarterback, he's forcing the quarterback to
leave the pocket. He's done it at two schools. I mean,
I have them close, very close to the two guys,

(08:27):
there's not much of a spread between them. Derek Harmon
is a little bit bigger, he's a little bit taller.
I don't Derek Harmon isn't a real stout, overpowering guy,
but he is athletic. He had upside. I just like
Nolan's film better in the past two years.

Speaker 1 (08:45):
Fair enough. And then the other guy you have kind
of in that one to two mix with with Derek
Harmon is Tyler Williams. Now he's he's really a run
stuff right. To me, he's and I'll put grant because
I think he is some past us upside there. You know,
you watch Tylee Williams. I don't know how much passed
us ups there is there, Tony, but that's also fine
because he is an excellent run defender. To me, he

(09:07):
is one of the safest players in this draft at
the top round two.

Speaker 2 (09:10):
Maybe not a pure pass rusher, but we talked about
this during the college football playoffs, and I thought that TYLERK.
Williams helped himself as much, if not more than any
player during that college football playoff run in the sense
that he was constantly attracting double teams, he was constantly
penetrating the line of scrimmage, and what he did was
he opened up opportunities on the outside for guys like

(09:32):
Jack Sawyer and JT. Two and may Loowa. And we
know we saw what Jack Sawyer did, so you know,
I agree with you. Maybe he's not the greatest pass
rush in the world. Six two and a half three
hundred twenty two pounds, he's powerful, he's athletic for a
three hundred and twenty two Pounder, so you know you
can use him about three and four fronts. I just

(09:52):
love his upside, and I like the fact that TILERK
Williams was a much better player in twenty twenty four
than he was in twenty twenty. He could have entered
the twenty twenty three draft and maybe he's a late
day two pick. I think he really improved this game
last season. He is the guy that's shown constant progress
in his game.

Speaker 1 (10:09):
And then two guys I'll put into the same category
Tony and you mentioned Landon Jackson. We will get to him.
But your sixth and eighth best defensive tackles here to
me are guys when you evaluate them, they're gonna fit
the same role and it's just a matter of which
one you like better. You have Shamar Turner as your
number six defensive lineman here six three two ninety three
technique defensive tackle, and then two spots later at number eight,

(10:33):
you have TJ. Sanders, the defensive tackle on to south
Tod another upfield three technique, smaller guy. Why Turner ahead
of Sanders.

Speaker 2 (10:40):
Well, because I think Turner was a better player. I
think he's got better upside, you know. And the thing
about He's also a slightly better athlete. The thing about
Chamar Turner that people don't understand was he and I
wrote about this at the Senior Ball. He had a
stress fracture in August, and what Texas A and M did,
rather than let the stress fracture field heel, was they

(11:03):
came up with some option where they put a rod
into his leg so he could play. So he was
basically playing injured last season, which is why he didn't
do a lot of testing in the in the run
up to the draft, because he was still healing that
from that stress fracture, as he should have in the
beginning of the season, but Texas A and M wanted
to put him on the field. He's the guy that

(11:24):
flashes brilliance To me, I love his upside. He's not
there yet, And I think with TJ. Sanders it's a
similar sort of situation in a sense that when TJ.
Sanders is on his game, he's unstoppable. As I say,
go back and watch the twenty twenty three film against Georgia,
and he shows that ability on occasion. But I think
that Sanders should be much more productive and should have

(11:46):
been much more of a consistent force than he actually
was at South Carolina.

Speaker 1 (11:50):
All right, Tony, Then the last two guys on your
list to Alfred Collins, who's kind of a big run
stuff for six, five, three thirty, and then you have
Ty Robinson and I with Nebraska. But you have third
round grades on eight players. Eight those are two of them.
I'll just rattle off the rest of them here, Joshua Farmer,
Darius Alexander, Jordan Phillips out of Maryland or more, Norman

(12:12):
Lott out of Tennessee, Ashton Jallott out of Louisville, and
then Dion Walker out of Kentucky. So it just shows
the depth of this class that you have so many guys.
I mean, that's sixteen players, Tony, you have with rounds
one through three grades of defensive tackle. That's a ridiculous number.

Speaker 3 (12:33):
Right.

Speaker 2 (12:33):
Eventually, I mean some of them will probably fall into
the fourth round. Deon Walker, you know, for him earily,
I mean deal Walker. You know, for all of that
I talked about Tylee Williams, how he consistently progressed and improved.
Deon Walker has gone in reverse. I mean, Dion Walker.
If you were watching the show back in August, we
talked about him as a potential first round pick. He

(12:54):
was terrible last year, was not good on film. He
was not forceful, he didn't play up the expectations. We
saw him at the Senior Ball. He was overweight, he
was sloppy body wise. I mean, he's a guy. I
mean even at the combine, if you watch the position drills,
he looked very uncomfortable with his body because somebody must
have said, hey, look, you know this is the feedback

(13:14):
we got from the Senior Ball. Where you were you know,
when you were stopped, you were still moving. And I
think he's the guy who just really hurt himself and
he could fall out of the fall out of Day two.
The player to keep an eye on is Omar Norman
Lot of Tennessee. Somebody told me two weeks ago he
could go in the second round, and I kind of
pushed it the sides, like, but I'm hearing more and

(13:37):
more about Omar Norman Lot as sort of that one
gap three technique in the pass rushers. Yeah, very explosive,
very quick, and is gonna go. I believe a lot
earlier than most people thought. I talked to a team
earlier this week and they've got a second round. Great
on no more Norman a lot. Now what happens is
sometimes you know, you'll have a half dozen teams that

(13:58):
are a dozen teams that have a second round. Granted
a guy he could go fourth round because they don't
pull the trigger on him, but still he's gonna go
I think much earlier than people expect.

Speaker 1 (14:06):
Hey, look and then, I mean there's a bunch of
different types of guys here, right, Darius Alexander and Ty Robinson.
You're taller guys. I think Alexander is probably a little
more explosive than Robinson, is a little bit better side
to side wiggle, you know, Josh Farmer and Jordan Phillips
or are kind of more of your pluggers inside. You
mentioned Dion Walker. Just a lot of different options here.
Alfred Collins is your big run stuffer that if you're

(14:28):
looking for defensive tackles that do different things, then you know,
then you have guys like Jamori Caldwell Tony He's not
even on your list. He's a big, good big man
in the middle. CJ. West out of Indiana another guy
that can clog the middle inside. I mean, it's just
a really good defensive tackle class and like, you know
the fact that Darius Alexander and Jordan Phillips are out
of your top ten is crazy because they're good players,

(14:49):
but it just shows you how good the class is.

Speaker 2 (14:51):
You know a lot of people look at Jordan Phillips
and they saw on those tackle gap occupy or didn't
have great stats, allowed team, you know a lot of
his teammates to do things, and then you watch him
at the shrine Ball and he showed him something to
be a playmaker. When he's playing defensive end, he should
pass rush ability. You know, Warren Brinson is a guy
who I think has done the opposite of his teammate
and his Zier Stackhouse, who received a much higher great

(15:13):
coming in the season at Warren Brinston has really helped
himself and the pre draft process was terrific. At the Shrineball,
I mean tough to impossible stop and they had some
good interior offensive linemen to Shrine Ball, as we saw
tested well at the at the combine, he's done. He's
checked off all the boxes. But because of the depth
at the defensive line position, defensive tackle position, he's probably

(15:35):
gonna fall into the early part of Day three and
someone's gonna get a steal.

Speaker 1 (15:40):
Yeah, absolutely, I think one hundred percent, right, Tony. I
think he's a good player. He gets upfield, he's bigger,
he's three to fifteen A lot of times he's up
field guys or two to ninety, right, but he's three
d fifteen pounds. I mean, I think that's that's a
really good number. His teammate tiery Ingram Dawkins is another
more athletic guy. He's more of like a like a
three four defensive end type, right that two seventy eight.

(16:02):
And then our guy Ashton j a Lot, who we
talked to a ton about last year from talking to teams.
Where do you think he's gonna fit in for teams?
Where do they want to use him as a four
to three D ends? As a three tech on pass rushdowns?
Where do you think he's gonna be used four.

Speaker 3 (16:13):
To three D end?

Speaker 2 (16:14):
In fact, I talked to Ashton j a Lot briefly
after his pro day and we spoke about this. I said,
you know, inside, he says, no, everyone's talking to me
about being a defensive end in a format front all.

Speaker 1 (16:26):
Right, we didn't talk about Landon Jackson, so we should
do that now. He is the seventh player on your board. Uh.
You see him as a hand in the dirt guy
rather than a stand up guy, which is why he's
in your defensive line rather than an edge category. But
I think he really helped himself with his athletic testing.
Tony at the combine him as you watch him on tape.
He doesn't pop athletically. He's just a really good football player.

(16:47):
He's strong, he's long, he sets the edge, he has
good gap integrity, that sort of stuff. Then he goes
and he jumps out of the roof. The show's explosive
ability at the combine. I think that's only gonna make
teams think, all right, well, you know, well maybe we
can develop some past rush upside with this guy, even
if the production might not be there in college and
he didn't.

Speaker 2 (17:06):
Show himself to be a great edge rusher at Arkansas,
But as you said, he was a three down defensive end.
Six six, two hundred and sixty four pounds ran a
four to six eight. So you're thinking we should easily
be able to get this guy up to two hundred
and seventy five two hundred and eighty pounds. I think
he's a natural end in the foreman front, makes place
all over the field, high character guy, someone you want

(17:29):
on your football team. Could have gone back, I'm sorry,
could have entered the draft last year, probably would have
been a Day two pick. Decides to go back and
play another year the college ball turned out to be
the right decision.

Speaker 1 (17:40):
Yeah, I'm with you. Anything else in the defense of
Antonio should good edge.

Speaker 2 (17:44):
No, I mean, I think we've talked about Rodgers. You
got to look at Josh Farmer from Florida State. I mean,
here's a guy who literally for two years was on
and off, up and down, very streaky at Florida State,
went to the Senior Ball.

Speaker 3 (17:58):
You know, we were both there.

Speaker 2 (18:00):
Was impossible to stop at times at the Senior Bowl,
whether it being scrimmage, whether it be in one on ones,
had a very solid combine. I mean, he ran what
five to one to one at three hundred and five pounds.
Grant that it's not a great time these days, but
still over three hundred pounds during the low five to
one ones. He's a gap occupied. I'm so, you can
occupy the guests, but he's also penetrated with that first step.

(18:22):
So he's a guy that's sneaky that is going to
go day two, which is kind of ironic because you
really wouldn't have thought that coming off of the past
two seasons. But he's just really checked all the boxes
in the lead up to the dress since January.

Speaker 1 (18:37):
Yeah, and where do you have Ty Hamilton? Tony, he's
done on your list here? I have like a fifth
round grade on him, pretty solid defensive line from Ohio State.
Where you have Ty Hamilton late rounder.

Speaker 3 (18:46):
I think he's a smaller guy. I agree with you.

Speaker 2 (18:49):
He's quick, he's explosive, but he's a smaller guy. He
is a one gap three technique type, which I think
minimizes his risk. So you don't know what's going to
happen if it's when it's a different situation where the
players to the left is the right of them are
not named Tyleek Williams, J T.

Speaker 3 (19:07):
Twomlow, and Jack Sawyer.

Speaker 1 (19:08):
No, I'm with you on that all right again. I
just a really really nice group at a defensive tackle
and I think, really Tony, the sweet spot for that
position is probably going to be at the top of
the third round. I think once that first tier guys
go off, I think like three to forty. I'm not sure,
I go Shamar Turner and T. J. Sanders are. I
think it's a little too rich for me. But I
think once you get to the top round three, if

(19:29):
you don't get you know, one of the Harmon's or
the Grants or the one of those guys are TYLERK Williams,
then I think you're probably better off wait until the
top round three to pick one.

Speaker 2 (19:38):
Well, yeah, I mean, and some of them are eventually
going to fall into the fourth round and good value
the top of day three.

Speaker 1 (19:44):
Now I'm with you on that, all right. For the
edge players we got, I'll let you list your ten.
Give me your ten, Tony, what do you got?

Speaker 2 (19:52):
I got Abdul Carter obviously from Penn Sate gonna be
a top three pick. Mike kel Williams of Georgia. Lot tremendous,
this amount of upside. Jaylen Walker of Georgia one of
my favorites. I'll get back to him. Then, James Pierce
at Tennessee, Michael Greene of Marshall, Nick Scourton of Texas
A and m Then Shamar Stewart. We'll talk about that

(20:14):
for a while. J T two Meloa femi Ola Dayju
ahead of Donovan as a rock gup of Boston College,
which I know is going to freak some people out.
Jordan Burch of Oregon, then Kyle Canard of South Carolina.

Speaker 1 (20:28):
Okay, I'm gonna give you my ten, and it's very similar.
Just the guys are a little bit at order. And
we should note that like Green, scoured in, Stewart, even
Pierce to an extent, are all fairly close together on
your rankings. There's not a whole lot of separation. Oh yes,
Pierce is a little bit higher than the other three.
So my group, I have Carter one. I got Jillan

(20:50):
Walker number two. I got Michael Williams number three, so
or top three in slightly different order, but the same.
I have Mike Green as my fourth guy. I have
Stewart as my fifth, as Irakuho is my sixth, Pierce
is my seventh. I have Landon Jackson my edge category,
so I have him next. Then I have Nick Scarton,

(21:11):
Prince will Juman Mealen, and then I have Kyle Canard.
And then you get into the Oldadejo's, the Tua Maylows,
the Sawyers. It's just another deep group, Tony. And again,
I think if you're picking at the bottom end of
the first round. Here top of the second round, you're
gonna have a very good edge player available to you.

Speaker 3 (21:28):
I think you know.

Speaker 2 (21:29):
I wrote an article about this sports ski to how
many edge rushers you're gonna go in the first round.
It depends on when that first guy in that second group, right,
the first group is Abdull Carter, Mikel Williams, Jaylen Walker.
When that player is selected, do the Bengals take an
edge rusher at seventeen?

Speaker 1 (21:48):
Well, real quick, real quick, those first three guys you mentioned, Carter, Walker,
william let's start there real fast. Do you think all
few of those guys are like top ten top twelve players.

Speaker 2 (21:58):
I think Carter and Mikel william are top ten players.
The guy to watch is Jalen Walker. I mean he's
six foot one to one. I love him as a player.
I mean, go back to what you said about Landon Jackson.
He's not the biggest guy in the world. A lot
of teams have him on their linebacker board. But that's
the in my opinion, that's the beauty of Jalen Walker.

(22:18):
He can rush the pastor you can use him in space,
you can use him in pursuit. That's why I like
Jalen Walker. But the fact that he's six' to, one you,
know he's got a funky type of body has kind
of downgraded him on some team's. Boards BUT i expect
him to be a big time player On. Sunday where
does he? GO i don't know that he's going to

(22:38):
go top. Ten, obviously you got to look At. Carolina
do they Take Jalen? Walker did he take Mckkil. Williams
if he doesn't go top, ten he'll go top?

Speaker 3 (22:45):
Fifteen?

Speaker 1 (22:46):
Good all? Right so now once those three are, gone
you were, saying the key is when the next guy goes, right,
Right but if.

Speaker 2 (22:53):
The bengals who have the seventeen pick taken edge, rusher
you could cut see a lot of edge rushers quickly
come off the. BOARD i, mean you look at for
the last five picks in the round. One you Got
kansas The eagles who go edge. Rusher you Got Kansas
city you go edge. Rusher you Got washington who's very
likely to go ahead. Rusher you got The ravens who
go ahead. Rusher and then teams from in between seventeen

(23:15):
and those last five, picks so you could get a
lot of edge rushers going and maybe some guys my
Board scourton be first round picks who you, know you,
know kind of like on the edge of first round.
Picks some people like Ezid, rok who is the first.
Round there's some people think he's more of a second
round he could go first. Round and then, again the

(23:35):
wild card is Probably Shamar. STEWART i, mean where does he.
GO i know some teams that have him as a
top fifteen. Pick others are, like, listen you, know great,
athlete but you know there's too much risk. There we're
really we wouldn't consider taking him into late in the first.

Speaker 1 (23:49):
Round, Yeah, TONY i went back and forth on this
order last. Night in this, MORNING i kept like moving
a guy a point, here a point, there to get
my order right and get the feel. Well WHEN i
was all, said THEN i only had. FOUR i had
four first round, picks four first round. GRADES i should
say it's the same four you, had EXCEPT i Had
green in For. Pierce in terms of, THAT i really

(24:11):
Like green's. TAPE i think he's physical against the one,
two AND i know there's off the field. STUFF i
don't know anything about, that SO i can't take that
into consideration when WHEN i grade these, guys and THEN
i kind of have three of those borderline first second
round Guys, Stuart, aserako And. Pierce then ironically we've like
switched a year ago, TODAY i was like going nuts
About Nick scwardon and now you have him higher on
your board THAT. I i. Think my worry with Him

(24:34):
tony is the wild weight. Fluctuations that's a worry for.
Me we never saw him, Test so for a guy
that had some questions with weight and never seeing him
test and there was just too many questions for me
to keep him as a potential first round, PICK i
had to push him down a little.

Speaker 2 (24:50):
BIT a couple things on that number, One remember he
was a good. Player he was an outstanding player. Perdue
OH i thought his tape was better than his tape this.

Speaker 3 (24:58):
Year.

Speaker 2 (24:58):
OKAY i am asked about that two hundred and eighty
pounds and they said That TEXAS a AND n had
him up at two hundred eighty pounds and that's not
his playing. Weight they were basically forcing him to play
heavier than he should have been. Playing and WHEN i
asked what is his natural playing, weight they said probably
somewhere around two sixty five to two hundred and seventy.

Speaker 1 (25:21):
Pounds, YEAH i THINK i asked them at the, Podium.
TONY i have to check my notes at the. COMBINE
i think he told me to sixty five.

Speaker 2 (25:27):
Right and closer to to sixty. Five SO i understand
the concern about the. Weight the reason that was given
to me was it was more of A TEXAS a
AND m thing Than Nick scouerton going to all you
can eat buffets and just balluting up to two hundred
and eighty pounds when when he shouldn't have. Been u and,
again and by the, way let me just say. This

(25:47):
you know you, say, well that's a cheap. Excuse, well,
no go back to WHAT i said About Jamar. TURNER i,
mean At TEXAS a AND, M Jamart turner really shouldn't
have been on the field the first month of the
season because of the stress rapture in a.

Speaker 3 (26:00):
Shin so it leads.

Speaker 2 (26:02):
Me to believe, That, YEAH i, Mean TEXAS a AND
m had him get to two hundred and eighty, pounds
which was fifteen pounds heavier than he should have.

Speaker 1 (26:08):
Been And i'll Throw Shamar stewart In. Tony he was
listed at like two eighty on their team website, too
and then he weighs in at to sixty something when
we ended up seeing him at the at The Senior
bowl and The. Combine so that's another guy WHO i
imagine they probably had play heavier than what his natural weight.

Speaker 3 (26:25):
WAS i mean the issues With Shamar.

Speaker 2 (26:27):
Stewart obviously you're not gonna AND i agree with, you
it's not gonna be its.

Speaker 3 (26:31):
Weight it's gonna be you, KNOW i wasn't saying it. Was.
Yeah is the production or the lack of?

Speaker 2 (26:36):
Production and are you going to be able to turn
This olympic type type athlete into a football a three
down football player who can rush the, passer who can
make a lot of plays behind the line of, scrimmage
or As i've mentioned and written about multiple, times are
you getting the Next Vernon gulston which is a major.

Speaker 1 (26:55):
Concern so you have two mail out on your, List,
tony he is number for eight on your edge rusher. List?
Right why him that? High but Not Jack?

Speaker 2 (27:04):
Sawyer because number, one he's a better. Athlete he's got
he's a little bit. Bigger he's also he's six and
sixty five. Pounds he probably can get up to two seventy.
FIVE i think he's more, explosive BUT i think there's
there was a lack of consistency.

Speaker 3 (27:19):
THERE i MEAN.

Speaker 2 (27:19):
Jt twomloa a year ago we're talking about him is
potentially a late first round. PICK i don't think he
elevated his. GAME i think he played well during the
college football players as Did Jack, sawyer so you, know
when the lights were on and bazillions of people were,
watching both of those guys played really. WELL i just
think he's a better. Athlete he's got better growth. POTENTIAL

(27:41):
i think he's slightly more explosive and more sudden Than
Jack sawyer is Where sawyer is more of your more
of your, workman type of lunch pell type of. Whyman
that is a decent pass. Rusher you can put him
on the. Inside you know what you're getting from. HIM
i like the upside of to maloa better.

Speaker 1 (27:58):
All right, Now. TONY i have not put my final
grade On Olomi oladejo, Yet AND i love your. BRAVERY
i love the boldness of it because we talked about it.
Together we loved him coming out of The Senior. BOWL
i have to finish my tape study on. Him when
all a said and done would have shocked. Me IF
i had him higher Than Kyle canard And prince hu Montme,
island it would not shock me at. All SO i
look forward to finishing that tape work this. Week but

(28:21):
what was it about we talked about The Senior. Bowl
what was it about what you saw on tape when
you went back and WATCHED ucla that made you, say,
LOOK i need that guy in my top.

Speaker 2 (28:28):
Ten, well it was a variety of. Things number one,
six three and a, half two indred and sixty round
pounds runs of four to sixty five former inside linebacker
that really did took well to an edge rusher the
only year he played as an edge rusher standing up
over offensive tackle as we saw at The Senior. Bowl
was moved inside a couple of times and really beat

(28:50):
centers and beat offensive guards and those one on. Ones
also the athleticism to get out into space and make
plays to play backed off the line of.

Speaker 3 (28:59):
Scrimmage love the, UPSIDE i love the.

Speaker 2 (29:01):
ATHLETICISM i love the fact that he really only did
it one year as an edge, Rusher whereas as a
rocker was a really good air, dresser but for a
couple of, years so he's still learning the. Position AND
i got to spend a lot of time one on
one With femi old days you AT, ucla and he's
just a, likable interesting. Guy i've mentioned this a couple of.

(29:23):
TIMES i was out to dinner with him one time
and we're leaving the restaurant because he needed right back
to the player's, hotel and he would stop and talk
to everybody that he interviewed with over the course of
the prior to, days a practicer on the field or
did the me he would go up to them AND i,
said you, know that ability to be that observant is

(29:45):
just something that is really really. KEY i, mean he
went to cal so you, know he's got to be
a really pretty smart. Guy so that ability to just
be that observant tells me that he is going to
be able to absorb a potentially complex defensive game plan
if a defensive coordinator wants to put in front of.

Speaker 1 (30:02):
Him As iraku as the final guy Ten tony AND
i have As iraku as the six guy on my,
list BUT i don't think there's really that much SEPARATING
i have like an really end of the first, round
beginning of the second round grade on. Him you have
a second round grade on him in your, thing SO
i don't think there's much distance separating. Them for, ME
i don't see the first round Pick. TONY i don't
think at that, size If i'm gonna pick you in

(30:24):
the first, round you better be a lights out. ATHLETE
i think he's a good, athlete maybe in a very good,
athlete but he's not like a lights out. Athlete SO
i think he's a really good variety of pass rush.
MOVES i think he's physical and he tries hard against the.
Run AND i originally had a pure second round grade
on him. Too we pushed it up for. ME i
had a chance to talk to him for about seven
minutes or so at The Senior, bowl and, LIKE i

(30:47):
could see that guy running gold been sacks one. Day
he is such just like a, smart put together, guy
and he was so. IMPRESSIVE i kind of bumped him
up a little bit of a half grade for.

Speaker 2 (30:57):
Me and he also ran a GREAT i mean the
forty in the pre draft, ross but he ran a
great three code and he ran a good shorts. Shot
so you, know and you and that is prevalent on
film in the sense that you, know you Know he's
not just an up the field. Guy he can get
out laterally and make plays in. PURSUIT i love him
as a college football player the, film and, remember here's a.

(31:18):
Guy you may not know, this but as A rockery
was given late round grades coming into the. Season he
was not projected as a top forty five, pick which.

Speaker 1 (31:27):
He's going to.

Speaker 2 (31:27):
Be BUT i, mean six two and a half two
hundred and forty five, pounds how much weight can he
can he? Carry how is he going to hold up
against the run as opposed to Say oladaiju who's six
three and a half two hundred and sixty one, Pounds
and as we saw at the senior ball when he
was moved inside to go up against some of those

(31:48):
interior offensive linemens in the one on one he beat
the bigger guys on the inside he.

Speaker 1 (31:53):
Did and then right. Outside but also with second round, Grades,
tony You Jordan, birch someone we've talked, ABOUT i think
for is this the thirty year we're talking About Jordan.
BIRCH i think said he's gonna come. Out and Then Kyle,
canard who was the not just THE sec defensive play
of the, year he was the college FOOTBALL. Bronckw Nogirski
award winner for Like Defensive player of The year in college.
Football And i'm not sure you're going to get a

(32:15):
dynamic pass rusher with, him but you're gonna get a,
really really good football. Player.

Speaker 2 (32:19):
Yeah but, again you, know you compare him to as
a rock Who he's sixty four two and fifty four
pounds ran a four to seventh, three which is faster
than people expect that he. Was he was assumed to
be a four to eight. Guy runs a four to seventh,
three so it's fast some people. EXPECTED i, Mean Jordan
birch has got top twenty, measurables top twenty computer, numbers
six to four and a half two and seventy nine,

(32:41):
pounds ran a four to sixty seven at the. Combine
you'll lead up to the draft plays to those. Measurables
but he's up and. Down he's very, streaky he's been.
Injured he'll make flash plays and then he. Disappears SO i,
mean if you Get Jordan birch in round two where
he's gonna, go you coach him, up he stays, healthy

(33:02):
and you get him to play to his, potential you've
got a first round pass rusher In day.

Speaker 1 (33:08):
Two, yeah and then you know round three you got
guys Like josiah or a round four guys Like Josiah
stewart who's a really good. Player so it's just it's
just a really really you, know we Mentioned sawyer out
Of Ohio. STATE i think edge might even be deeper
than defensive Tackle. Tony but those two positions are going
to absolutely dominate the first three four rounds of this.

Speaker 3 (33:29):
Draft and you.

Speaker 2 (33:30):
Know edge rusher could dominate the bottom half of round.
One AS i, said the keep an eye on In
cincinnati BECAUSE i think that's the area where the one may.
Start if it doesn't start With, cincinnati there's gonna be
some real good pass rushers left over at the top
Of day.

Speaker 1 (33:45):
Two all, right, now let's get to the off. Ball
Linebacker Tony Jiha campbell leads the. Way not a. Surprise
you don't have a true first round great on. Him
he's borderline for, you really good. PLAYER i know he
has a late injury, right a shoulder thing that came
up with, him, right If i'm not, mistaken six to
two thirty. Five he's built like a, tank like you,
know they line up all the linebackers to talk at the,

(34:07):
combine and he just looked like a guy that played
a different position than a lot of these other. Guys
but you have. Him had One Carson sweessinger at HIS
ucla who was a walk on at number. Two great,
Story Danny stutsman out Of. Oklahoma you Have Kyle canard
as a crossover, Here Barrett carter out Of, clemson someone
we talked about a lot on last year's show heading
into the, Draft Demetrius, knight someone who had a really

(34:27):
nice senior. Ball Jeffrey boss also had a really nice
senior bought Of, Oregon Cody simon out Of Ohio, state
who we've talked about a bunch uh and Then Nick
martin out Of Oklahoma, state And Kobe, king brother of
The Klan king out Of Penn state with a fourth round.
Grade but this is this is not the best off
ball linebacker. Class.

Speaker 2 (34:45):
No and it's because it's a it's a position or
an area that's been. DIMINISHED i mean most of you
Are You're Jalen, walkers You're Nolan smith's of the. World
they're used or used as pass. Rushers You're Abdul carter's
of the, world or used as pass. Rushers remember you go.
Back he watched twenty twenty three film even twenty twenty twenty.
Two Abdul carter was more of a traditional linebacker At

(35:06):
Penn state and he did a great. Job but they
moved him up at defensive end last year and he's
going to be a top three. Pick so it's not
the greatest class because it's been marginalized on the college,
level which carries over to THE. Nfl. NOW i, Mean
Jihad campbell is great in, space goes sideline to. Sideline
people think he's going to be or a kid develop

(35:28):
and to a great pass. Rusher, GREAT i don't care about,
That BUT i see a guy who can play three
downs on third and eight to cover tight ends or
running backs on third and, two the stack against the
run where he can get outside the box and make
plays in. Pursuit Carson schwesschinger is a guy who's coming
off a tremendous. CAMPAIGN i mean is his production went

(35:49):
through the roof last. Year and, again Like Jahad, campbell
he's very. Athletic he makes a lot of plays sideline to.
Sideline he covers a tremendous amount of area on the,
field six two and a half two hundred forty two,
pounds had a Good pro. Day he had an Individual
Pro day WHICH i recorded about about a week Ago april,
second so it's just about a week. Ago didn't run the,

(36:11):
forty but everything else was really. NICE i think the
thing With swettinger is it's a bit of a gamble
in the sense that he's only really done it for
one year he was on THE ucla. Team but he's
more of a special teamer and a rotational, guy excuse,
me rather than a starting the starting Linebacker Danny, STUTSMAN
i think a guy that's kind of gotten lost in

(36:32):
the shelfle here was a real good player At oklahoma
for three. Years more of a run, defender but can
also cover the. Pass he doesn't do it as, well
so you're looking more as an inside linebacker and a
three Four Barrett carter Of clemson your traditional week side
linebacker when we had traditional week side. Linebackers you, know
your four to three week side linebacker that you're using,

(36:55):
coverage you use in. Pursuit smaller guy six foot two
ndred thirty one, pounds runs and plays to a four
or five. FIVE i Think Barreck carter a lot of
people expected more from him this. Season people thought when
he went back To clemson after the twenty twenty three,
campaign it's potentially a first round.

Speaker 3 (37:14):
PICK i don't think it.

Speaker 2 (37:15):
Happened didn't happen to a lot of Those clemson guys
that kind of fell Off Dmetrious knight is the guy
that's the, flavor is the flavor of the. Month right,
now as you hear my dog going crazy in the,
BACKGROUND i, Apologize.

Speaker 1 (37:26):
Tony he total he loves The Metrious. NIGHT i Understand
i'm pumped up, too or.

Speaker 2 (37:31):
He's, not or she is not too happy about What
i'm saying about The Barreck. Carter BUT i Mean Demetrius
night six one and a half twenty forty five pounds
four or five eight plays faster than that, plays which is.

Speaker 3 (37:44):
The violence in this.

Speaker 2 (37:45):
GAME i mean he's a guy who you, know looks
to take on and attack, opponents whether it's stacking against
the run of the box or getting out to the.
SIDELINES i mean he looks for physical, contact no.

Speaker 1 (37:58):
Question jeffrey Boss as they converted. Safety correct If i'm not,
Mistaken so we can move really, well really smart player,
Too and THEN i want to go down at your
list of the, post you Have Jack kaiser at. Thirteen
it's funny coming into The Senior, bowl he was one
of The Notre dame guys despite the fact there's season
in long playing The Senior bowl, anyway AND i was
expecting this like big stiff guy that couldn't. Move he

(38:21):
was actually really good in space and in coveras at
The Senior. Bowl he's AN. Ic talk to him for
about ten. Minutes he's a really smart. GUY i Think
Jack kaiser could be a LOG i know he's, small
only six one two, thirty BUT i think he's going
to be a good football player if you get him
in the right.

Speaker 2 (38:35):
Spot more, ATHLETIC i believe than people give him credit.

Speaker 3 (38:39):
For you mentioned the.

Speaker 2 (38:40):
Instincts don't know if he's a three down a traditional
three down, player but a guy that's going to make
a lot of plays On. Sunday the one GUY i
didn't talk. About you talk about small. Linebackers Cody simon
out Of Ohio state six with two nine, pounds ran
in the four to sixes at his PRO. Da you,
know you talk about all, That we've talked, about all

(39:01):
that outstanding talent on The Ohio state. Defense we talked
about the frontline. Players you Got Caleb, downs the safety
who's going to be a very early. Pick when you
watch the when you watch The Ohio state, film It's Cody.
Simon make him play after play after play against the
run in. COVERAGE i think he's going to be a,
day a late day to steal that is quickly going

(39:24):
to find his way onto AN nfl roster and be
a productive. STARTER i like.

Speaker 1 (39:29):
It moody's is a proud partner of The New York,
giants uniting the brightest minds to turn today's risks into tomorrow's.
Opportunities learn more At moody's dot. Com moody's a sponsor
Of Draft season and a lot of risk going out
there right now in the financial, World, Tony So moodies
might be a good place to go to get a
little help with that sort of. Thing so there you.
Go that though things have been better today as far

(39:50):
AS i can, tell i'ven't looked at the old numbers
in the last couple of, hours but they look better
this morning for. Sure all, right let's go to let's
go to quarterback here to.

Speaker 3 (39:59):
Listen you didn't sell you didn't. Lose so that's.

Speaker 1 (40:01):
That's that, is that is if you're there for the long,
term sticking it with the long, term, baby exactly, right
and and just don't look daily because you're gonna drive yourself,
nuts all. Right quarterback, Here Will johnson number one for,
You Johnny baron number, two chavone revel AND i believe
it's like it's like this. IS i think it's. SAVONE

(40:22):
i don't think there's an eighth in. THERE i think
it's pronounced just savone revel. AS i figured some of
these guys, Out Maxwell harriston number, Four Trey amos number.
Five this is very similar to my list, Here tony
Of Benjamin morrison number, six as Are A thomas number,
Seven Jacob parrish, Eight Kobe bryant out Of kansas, nine
and Then Dorian strong at number ten out Of Virginia.
Tech i'll give you my list really. QUICKLY i Have

(40:44):
hunter as a corner, here SO i Have hunter as,
One baron, Two Will johnson, Three revel, Four trey almost,
Five Maxwell harriston, six as Are A thomas, Seven Benjamin morris.
Asn eight just because the, injury and THEN i have
A Jacob parrish And Darian porter round out my top.

Speaker 2 (41:05):
TEN a lot of love For porter in the scouting.
Community i'll tell you right, now he's down on my,
List but Teams i've talked to have him as a
Potential day two. PICK i mean six, three two hundred
and ten pounds ran the four ran what a four
to three to zero at the. Combine so he's got
the physical, skills there's no doubt about. It but he

(41:26):
needs a lot of work on his. Game where do
you take a guy like? That some teams could take
him in the third round because of the. UPSIDE i,
MEAN i.

Speaker 1 (41:34):
Good grade on him. Myself that's WHAT i have on,
HIM a.

Speaker 3 (41:36):
Three it's the overall it's not a strong cornerback. CLASS i,
mean there's a lot of.

Speaker 2 (41:41):
Questions Will johnson is my number one, cornerback but it's
more based on the strength of what he should in
twenty twenty three than his play in twenty twenty, four
where he was suffering with a turf toe. Injury his
play was up and, out gave up a lot of
underneath receptions. Again new defensive coordinator there In Wink, martindale

(42:01):
Guy giant fans are very familiar. With you, know was
it the.

Speaker 3 (42:04):
Scheme was it the? System he wasn't playing, press he
was playing backed off the line of. Scrimmage was the
injury bothering?

Speaker 2 (42:11):
HIM i Think Will johnson before the season, started we're
talking about as a top, ten potential top eight. Pick
he's fallen off. Significantly John day Barn is he a slot?
Guy is he a nickel? Guy is he an outside?

Speaker 1 (42:25):
CORNERBACK i like him better Outside. TONY i thought his
outside tape was better than a slot, tape to be
honest with, YOU i really.

Speaker 2 (42:31):
Did and the fact is, this you look at most depth,
charts nickel backs are starters, NOW i mean they start three.
Cornerbacks so And John Day. Baron he's, feisty he's, aggressive
he doesn't lack for. Confidence he rebounds well from, mistakes
which is what you want at the cornerback. Position and
his game is on the. Upswing Shannon, Revel Shavon. RAVEL

(42:53):
i apologize Whom He's, carolina however you pronounce. IT i
mean a guy who probably could have competed to be
the top cornerback in this year's, class, absolutely were it
not for a knee injury he suffered in. PRACTICE i
mean six two one hundred and ninety four pounds projected
to run under four to four and in my, opinion

(43:13):
showed a lot of progress early in the twenty twenty four,
season where in twenty twenty three he was doing a
lot of. FACEGUARDING i saw a guy who was getting
his head back around and tracking the pass in the.
Air but the injury is going to send him back
because obviously you don't know when he's going to be
one hundred, percent and it slowed his. Development, well a

(43:35):
lot of teams Like Maxwell, HARSHTON i mean that four
to two to eight that he ran at the. Combine
he's a lot Like john day barn and that he's
a feisty. Guy he likes to mix it, up he
rebounds quickly from, mistakes a little bit. Unpolished Trey, Amos
i'd like the progress that he showed in his game last.
Season went From louisiana to a part time player At

(43:55):
alabama to a guy who was a starter consistently last
year At mississippi and see to get better and. Better
then you Have Benjamin morrison and as A Ray thomas
A Florida State Benjamin, MORRISON i have a second round
great on. Him most teams view him right now as
a late second, rounder similar situation To Ben, johnson although
it's magnified some because his his injury is a bit more.

(44:17):
Severe Azuae thomas a guy who had a real good,
season had a Standing Senior ball and then ran four
or five eight at the during his pro day. Workout
he plays faster than, that but, STILL i mean four
or five. Eight you have to decide where you're going
to draft a player like. That are you gonna have
to put him in a scheme that protects him or

(44:38):
are you comfortable with him in man and press coverage
and man the man coverage even though he's Shown stopwatch
wise not to have the great.

Speaker 1 (44:47):
Speed, YEAH i Think i'll just say one thing About Azaree,
Thomas tony he doesn't have great speed, EITHER i, Think
and it's weird because you think press man you need
to be really. FAST i don't like his side to
side Quicks. Thomas like we saw him try to Guard
Test johnson at The Senior bowl and it was and
it was a. DISASTER i, mean he just got. Destroyed
AND i worry about him in space against quicker. GUYS

(45:08):
i think he's really. Good he's, Big, strong he's got
he's got good, arms he can, press he can get people.
OFF i think that's if you want to be effective
With Azarrey. THOMAS i think you have to be a press.

Speaker 2 (45:17):
Team yeah, YEAH i mean not too many people were
able to Cover Test johnson at the you know the other,
guy you know a similar situation Is Kobe, bryant who
we saw at The Shrine ball where he ate tremendous
for two days of. Practice he wouldn't shut. Up he
let everybody know when he made a good. Play but you,
know barely broke four or five, five and then lead

(45:38):
up to the to the draft and at the combine
at The pro. Day and he's a bit of a slimmer.
GUY i don't want to say smaller slimmer, guy six,
foot one hundred and eighty. Pounds when we saw, him you,
know he looks like a slimmer. Guy is he presses
his Own is he backed off the line of? Scrimmage
is He nicholas he the outside? Guy is he a
mix of all of? THEM i do think that the

(45:59):
Sleepers i'm concerned Is Dorian strong From Virginia, tech six to,
one one hundred and eighty five, pounds ran in the
high four to fours at the. COMBINE i think he's
got a lot of. UPSIDE I i think people are
sleeping on. Him it may take some. Time With Dorian,
strong he may not be a starter in twenty twenty,
five BUT i think he's going to be a real
good corner down the. Road same thing With Zaia Alexander

(46:21):
lsu a lot Like thomason says that he does have
great forty, speed but he's a real good player transferred
FROM i believe With Southeastern. LOUISIANA i may need to
be checked on, that but a guy that showed a
lot of ability last year playing for THE Lsu.

Speaker 3 (46:36):
Tigers all, right.

Speaker 1 (46:37):
Final, Position, tony let's go to. Safety you Have nick
mnoire as your number one, safety so DO. I you
Have Malachi starks as your number two Guys Xavier wats
as your. THIRD i actually have those two guys. SWAPPED
i have some issues With. STARKS i want to talk
to you. About Maybe i'm missing, something BUT i want
to have that. Conversation andrew mccuba number four for you
watched by the way in mccuba along With Billy bowman AND. Rj,

(46:58):
mickens who are next all third round grades for. You Lathan,
Ransom Kevin Winston, junior WHO i think might be the
best run support safety in this.

Speaker 3 (47:06):
Draft.

Speaker 1 (47:06):
Tony my, GOSH i watched his twenty twenty three tap
against the. Run it is. Fantastic oh my, god he's
a great. Tackler Malachi moore and Then Jonas sanker And Dante.
Trader so not a great safety class, Here, Tony, no
go back To Kevin.

Speaker 2 (47:20):
Winston watch the early. FILM i think it was The
West virginia. GAME i, mean you see. Explosion you see
a guy who crazes his physical. Contact he fires up
the field and throws his shoulder pads into the. Pile
the thing is he had that, injury only played two
games last. Season the ball skills are very rough around the.

Speaker 1 (47:40):
Edges and by the, Way, tony he only had one
year starting before this year. Too he didn't really start
as a, freshman so he only is one year of starting.

Speaker 2 (47:46):
So and the ball skills are very rough around the,
edges so he's a bit. Limited where you Do where
do you draft a guy like? That i'll tell you,
THIS a lot of teams Like Jonas. SANKER i have
him down my list in the fifth. ROUND a lot
of teams have him as A day two. Pick tested
very well To, combine played well to The Senior. Bowl
we saw him at The Senia, bowl made some really nice,

(48:08):
plays good, size six foot a half six foot one half,
inch two hundred and six. POUNDS i have him later.
On teams have him more so In day. Three you
know you started at the. Top Mmin, OWARI i, mean
had a great workout at The, combine ran four three.
Eight really didn't do much testing after, that even at
The Pro, day but was a good player At South

(48:29):
carolina for two.

Speaker 3 (48:29):
YEARS i believe he had like four.

Speaker 2 (48:31):
Interceptions he is not A Schamar stewart type in the
sense that he's a great athlete who doesn't have the
production on the.

Speaker 3 (48:38):
Field em And awari has that. Production he's got at that.

Speaker 1 (48:42):
Size Unlike Kevin, WINSTON i don't think is a great run.
DEFENDER i almost think he's better running in space and
coverage at two hundred and twenty pounds Than, starks's which is.

Speaker 2 (48:52):
Weird, well that could also just be the system as,
well because you know he's a and those interceptions were
not opportunistic. Inceptions they were the result of good ball
Skills and the thing with M andwari the four to,
three it's not just straight line. Speed he's fast out
to the, sidelines he is fast laterally a little bit
hesitating with the balls in the. Air but the thing

(49:14):
is that two hundred and twenty. Pounds can you play
him over the slot? Receiver is he a strong? Safety you?
Know is he just a much faster version Than Kyle,
hamilton who's turned out to be a real good.

Speaker 3 (49:26):
Player, uh you, know where are you going to use?
Him that's gonna be your.

Speaker 2 (49:30):
Concerns Malachi, starks you said you've got some concerns about
him laya mombie, Brother.

Speaker 1 (49:36):
YEAH i got. You so for a guy that's his,
size not the biggest guy, right just six one. SEVEN
i was expecting somebody a lot twitch. Here, LIKE i
don't think the speeds are. PROBLEM i think four or
five is. FINE i didn't see speed as an issue with.
HIM i think when you line them up in a
slot against, receivers he he was not, Good like he
is not very good covering in the. Slot he had

(49:57):
a couple of bad miss tackles on. Tape but, actually
do you think he's actually a pretty good tackle? Overall
i'm not worried about. NECESSARILY i do you think he's
a smart. PLAYER i like him going, DOWNHILL i don't
like him going like changing direction and stuff like. That
and coverage you when you're people have made The Brian
branch comparison with. HIM i Think Brian branch is a
far better coverage player Than.

Speaker 2 (50:17):
Starks's, yeah and some people Had Brian branch because of
the size listened as a. Cornerback if you remember the
year leading up to his, draft you KNOW i would
agree with. YOU i still Think starks is going to
be a darn good free, safety darn a real good
center field that.

Speaker 1 (50:31):
Keeps yet and by the, way you have a one
to two on, HIM i have a second round grade on,
Him so there's not that much different. THERE i just
have him to really Like Xavier. WATTS i was expecting
not to like. Him where quarterbacks are just making bad
throws are going right to. Him there were a couple
of those on. Tape but he really drives on the ball,
well even his pass, breakups like he gets his arm
around these receivers to knock the ball. AWAY i just

(50:52):
think he does a great job locating and attacking the.

Speaker 3 (50:54):
Ball stouter Than, starks probably not as, FAST i.

Speaker 2 (50:57):
Think you, know on A No dame defense that didn't
have great, talent you talked About kaiser before you, know
they had guys up front into r J oben And
Riley mills And Howard cross WHO i think overachieved got
the most from their. ABILITY i thought he was really
the straw that stirred to, drink you, know the skill
of term in a sense that he was there each

(51:19):
and every. Weekend we saw it through the college football,
players very. CONSISTENT i don't know what kind of upside he,
has but that's okay because you're gonna get a guy
who could potentially produce early on as AN nfl.

Speaker 3 (51:30):
Rookie.

Speaker 1 (51:31):
YEAH i see both him And starks as guys that
are going to be better playing playing deep than than
playing close to the line of. Scrimmage and, then the
only GUY i want to throw out that you have
him at five on your list, Here, tony and, look
he's only five, ten one ninety. Two Billy bowman is
a hell of a football. Player he can, cover he
knows how to locate the, football he's smart and LOOK
i stood next to him at the. Combine he is,

(51:53):
small like he. Is he looks like a slot, corner
that's what he looks. Like but that dude can play. Football,
man he is a good football.

Speaker 2 (51:59):
Player the irony IS nfl teams were not real happy
with the twenty twenty four. Film in, fact he ended
the season with lower grades and then he came into the.
Season but the fact is, THIS i agree with you
as a sideline to sideline center, fielder as a guy
that's got excellent. Range it's a guy who tracks the
pass in the. Air not the biggest, safety but we've

(52:22):
seen Small you Mentioned Brian, branch guys who are smaller
safeties who are very productive On, sunday AND i Think
bowman fills that.

Speaker 1 (52:30):
Hole all, Right, tony in, conclusion, here just give me
your basic rundown of what we just talked. About what
does this defensive class in the twenty twenty FIVE nfl
draft look?

Speaker 2 (52:39):
Like if you're looking for a guy in the defensive,
backfield you, know it's a roll of the. Dice your
front line, players your interior defensive, linemen your edge. RUSHERS
a lot of talent there quality as well as. Quantity
so that's the place to. BE i do like some
of the linebackers although you're off ball linebackers although they're.

Speaker 3 (53:02):
Limited SO i think the deeper this in the defense you.

Speaker 2 (53:06):
Get you, know when you go from first to, second
second to third, level the more risk there.

Speaker 1 (53:12):
Is who are your favorite guys up front that you
think people a little bit too?

Speaker 2 (53:15):
Sleepy Ond, WELL i mean all of the e femio
of the day's you as spoken, about keep an eye on.
HIM i think a linebacker that people aren't talking about
Is Dumis johnson Of kentucky by way Of, georgia who
a lot of people aren't speaking. About he's more of a,
stouter punching the mouth type of a. Linebacker i'm a

(53:39):
big fan Of Nick, martin a little bit, smaller five
to eleven and a. Half but you want to talk
about a guy that goes sideline to the sideline and
a guy that plays much bigger than his listed, SIZE
i mean he's someone who plays lights. Out Carson brunner Of,
washington who's probably gonna be an Early day three. Pick
smaller guy six twenty seven, pounds but read down linebacker

(54:01):
that can play in, space pursues well against the, run
can cover in certain. Situations and a guy who gets
the most from his. ABILITY i Mentioned Zi alexander OF,
lsu who's going to be A day three.

Speaker 3 (54:14):
Pick if you're looking for a.

Speaker 2 (54:15):
Safety Dante trader probably gonna be a fifth round. Pick
not the greatest athlete in the, world doesn't time that,
well but it's a terrific lacrosse. Player so you know
he's got some, uh he's got some athleticism or he's
got some explosion in his. Game he's also very, aggressive
has been a consistent performer At. MARYLAND i think he's

(54:37):
going to be a solid selection in the middle Of day.

Speaker 3 (54:40):
Three.

Speaker 1 (54:40):
YEAH i thought he was pretty goodt the senior ball.
Too Dante traday made some plays in that. Game all, Right,
Tony you've been doing a great job keeping track of
all the latest rumors and news and everything in the
pro days at Sports. Kita what do you have coming
up that people who keep their eyes.

Speaker 2 (54:53):
On a lot of, news a lot of rumors will
have a couple more articles this. Week as we get
closer to the, draft the articles will be more. Frequent
we've got the Mock draft, simulator which is constantly. Updated
there's gonna be five hundred plus players in. There with scouting,
reports so even after the, draft you, know when The
giants or The jets or The eagles or whoever signed

(55:15):
those priority free, agents you'll be able to get information on.

Speaker 1 (55:18):
Them, yeah and, Look tony's reports are the. Best they're
all very, complete they're. Excellent next, week, folks we're going
to get do an All questions. SHOW i know you
guys have questions about the. Draft we're getting into, it
so me AND toni will both put up tweets about
trying to get questions from, you and we will try
to get as many of those as we can and
get all the latest news From tony as. Well tomorrow
will be a big intel week as teams finish their draft,

(55:39):
meetings scouts are in the buildings their meeting with general.
Managers we'll talk about that What tony's, hearing and then
we will Have tony's final mock draft the following week
up up before the, draft and Then tony will be
joining us for a couple of our draft things over
the weekend. Too we'll do a couple of draft season.
Episodes we're gonna have some special shows on wf and
That tony's gonna be a part. Of so it'll be a,

(56:00):
busy busy. Week as we get moving here On draft, Season,
tony good, stuff my. FRIEND i appreciate it as, always, Absolutely.

Speaker 3 (56:07):
John it's getting.

Speaker 2 (56:08):
Here a little bit of, anxiety a little bit of,
pensiveness and let's get this thing.

Speaker 1 (56:12):
Rolling That's Draft, season presented By, moody's a proud sponsor
of The New York. Giants For Tony, Polline I'm John
schmelk from The hackensack And Maritey health podcast. Studio keep getting.
Better we'll see you next. Time, everybody