April 2, 2025 • 44 mins
John Schmeelk and Tony Pauline give some updates on pro days and discuss the top 10 offensive prospects in each position group in the draft.
:00 - Pro day updates
3:00 - Quarterbacks
15:02 - Running backs
23:00 - Wide receivers
34:00 - Tight ends
37:49 - Offensive line
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:01):
Now officially open. This is Draft season. John Smelt Tony
Pauline with you. It's all brought to you by Moody's,
a proud partner of the New York Giants. Deco Addrest,
Unlock Opportunity. Learn more at moodies dot com. Tony Pauline
from Sports Keita, Tony. We are just over three weeks
(00:23):
until Draft night. It has come particularly fast this year.
We're gonna do our top ten offensive rankings this week
before we get there, though, anything you want to hit
on in terms of prode's or news or anything like that.
Speaker 2 (00:33):
So Prode's are basically over, Thank you Lord, because Mars
just drags for me.
Speaker 3 (00:38):
Because I'm sitting by the phone.
Speaker 2 (00:40):
I think the big news, and I had known this
for a couple of weeks, but I waited till it happened.
The big news last week is that Tyler Warren did
nothing at prode. Tyler Warren did nothing at the combine either,
no testing, no position drills, didn't do we have any
of that at Penn State. I was privy to that
information as they wrote in Sports Skeet a couple of
weeks before it had and basically what their plan was
(01:03):
with what Tyler Warren's team plan was is there are
four or five teams which are very interested in Tyler
Warren and they're just going to, for lack of a
better word, market Tyler Warren to those teams, no testing,
no position drills. I wasn't told whether or not he's
going to run forties when those teams come in to
(01:25):
work him out. Those teams were the Jets, those teams
were the Cults, those teams were the Bears, and the
team one team was the Rams. I'm also told the
Saints and the Charges also, like we'll get into that
where he goes as far as when we get to
the position, that the tight end position. But it's interesting
fewer and fewer players working out and then a guy
(01:45):
like Tyler Warren who doesn't do anything at the combine
or at prode so there's really no marks on them.
Speaker 1 (01:52):
And Tony a lot of people have him as their
top tight end. I'm not going to argue with that.
I think that's fine. Him and close to Loveland are
very close for me. We'll talk about the tight ends
on today. But both of us did worry of his burst,
his twitchiness and like got part on his tape and
historically Penn State players with their strength and conditioning program
tend to test extremely well, yep, with that program. So
(02:15):
maybe red flag might be too strong. But maybe like
a yellow flag gets put up the flagpole a little
bit that all right, Well, if he's not testing, that
means the testing is probably not very good.
Speaker 3 (02:27):
Well, I would say it's a red fuig.
Speaker 2 (02:28):
I mean, if you remember the COVID year when there
was no twenty twenty one, when there was no combine,
and that Penn State prode where all these two hundred
and forty pounds guys were running in the four threes,
the high four threes. And let's also not forget Michael Mayer.
Remember the tight end from Notre Dame, who no one
thought was going to run under four to eight. He
goes to the combine, he runs a four to seven.
(02:49):
He ran it the combine because he knew he was
going to dispel those myths that he was a slow
tight end. So if you've got the speed and you
are running faster than is ex you're gonna get your
rear end out there and run the forty for scouts.
So what you said is right on. In my opinion,
it's more of a red flag than it is.
Speaker 3 (03:07):
A yellow flag.
Speaker 1 (03:09):
Yeah, absolutely, all right, So let's get into our top
tens here, Tony, let's talk about quarterbacks. Cam Ward. Both
of us have him at number one. Why don't you
go through the rest of your top ten and then
I'll throw some names in there myself in the door.
I have them ranked, and then we'll kind of debate
back and forth.
Speaker 2 (03:27):
Cam Ward number one, Schador Sanders number two, I have
Jackson Dart number three. I've got Quinn Viewers number four.
A lot of people are going to disagree with that.
Quinn Ewers has done a lot of winning on the
college level. He's always come through. There were some in
some areas of his game he needs to improve, but
I'm sticking with him as number four. Jalen Milroe number five,
physically the most gifted player in this draft, but someone
(03:50):
whose game has been on the downhill since the second
half of last season. Tyler Schunk of Louisville number six,
Riley Leonard of Note your name number seven. Then it
fills out with Colm Cord of Syracuse, whoever is a
fourth round pick, and ninety ten to two fifth rounders.
Will Howard of Ohause State Brady Cook of Missouri.
Speaker 4 (04:08):
All right, so I'm with the cam Ward at one.
Speaker 1 (04:11):
Now You're probably gonna laugh at me, Tony, as I
told you I was part of the Tyler Schuck crew.
Speaker 4 (04:18):
I do not have a first round grade on Shad
or Sanders myself.
Speaker 1 (04:21):
I have a kind of a top of the second
now that will get him pushed up into the first round,
because that's what happens with quarterbacks. Most second round graded
quarterbacks go in the first round anyway. But I do
have I'm a guy that shoots for upside with QBS,
and I think the physical tools and I know the
injuries in the age. I will roll my dice on
Tyler Shook. I have him in Sanders tags basically touching
(04:41):
in round two. I have Jackson Dhart as my fourth quarterback.
I have kind of like a second third round and
the second round grade on him. I'm with you, quin yours,
I have him at five. I was impressed with the tape,
to be honest with you, Tony, I think I like
his approach to the game where he plays very loose.
He is a loose arm. It's not like an A
(05:03):
plus arm, but it's it's a better than average arm.
In my opinion, he puts the ball into some tight areas.
I'd rather coach that out of a guy than to
coach it into a guy, you know what I mean.
Speaker 4 (05:12):
I just like his approach.
Speaker 1 (05:13):
I think he's just inconsistent from week to week, Like
you can't pull some of the throws off. He tries
to pull off some of the time. But I have
yours is five with the third round grade. I have
Jaln Milroe after him as just a pure developmental guy. Like,
if you're just grading on his play, he's probably a
fourth round pick. But obviously you're grading him on his potential,
so he's gonna get pushed up higher than that. I
(05:34):
think Will Howard is a safe round four type of pick.
Com McCord, same deal. Round four. That's where I got.
I would probably have Riley Leonard and and Breed Cook
coming up next on that list. I was wondering, you
not Dylan Gabriel on your list, and a lot of
there are fans of his around the league. Would he
be next up for you in your group or even
a little bit further down the board for you?
Speaker 3 (05:55):
No, I believe he is.
Speaker 2 (05:57):
Actually he's a little farther down because of what we
saw at the Senior Ball and the Combine. After him,
I got the kid from Canada, Elglismar Taylor, who's got
a big arm. I like Curtis Ark and Maxwell Brosner.
Brosmer of Minnesota is a guy that's got a better arm.
I think with Dylan Gabriel. Dylan Gabriel, I love him
(06:18):
from the shoulders up. It's just from the physical tools
down that you know. I think he's going to be
a real good backup on Sunday who could maybe be
a spot starter.
Speaker 1 (06:31):
All right, So let's have the debate here, because I
think everyone of those cam Ward's gonna be the first
quarterback taken right from what you're hearing right now, do
you think Shador Sanders is in the mixed top five?
Speaker 4 (06:41):
Still?
Speaker 1 (06:41):
Do you think he's gonna end up slipping a little bit?
What are you hearing around the league about generally what
teams are thinking about Shador.
Speaker 3 (06:46):
I'll go back to the combine.
Speaker 2 (06:47):
I wrote a story sports Kinna had said Shador Sanders
was in fact slipping, And there are some people who
agree with you. When I say people, I mean teams
in the NFL who say they wouldn't take Shador Sanders
in the first round out. People will say, well, you know,
the the negatives and people can play well, you know,
it's not fair because they don't like his attitude or
(07:10):
character or arrogance. But it goes deeper with that than
Shador Sanders. As we've said here on the show multiple times,
the twenty twenty four film is not much better in
fact than twenty twenty three. In fact, it's even worse
in some areas. It's not a big guy. He doesn't
have a big arm. Fundamentally, we've talked about time and
time again on the show. He's a horror fundamentally, throwing
(07:32):
off his back foot, not releasing the ball with improper footwork,
slow moving his head off the primary target, puts the
ball up for grabs, doesn't have a huge harm. I
mean the fact that it Shador Sanders coached by Dion Sanders,
you know, I think kind of elevates him in the outside.
Speaker 3 (07:51):
Of the scouting community. And someone brought this up to me.
Speaker 2 (07:54):
They said, you know what, here's a guy who's always
been coached by his dad. What's going to happen when
he has to take coaching from someone else. That's also
something you know, I don't want to say it's a
red flag, but it's something to be concerned about.
Speaker 3 (08:06):
So I still have him as my number two quarterback.
Speaker 2 (08:09):
I've had him in mock drass since the combine going
to the New Orleans Saints. But there are some people
who agree with you. They would take Tyler Shock over
shad Or Sanders. And if Sanders is not a second
round pick, he's a late first round pick absolutely falling.
Speaker 3 (08:28):
We'll see how far he falls.
Speaker 4 (08:30):
And look, just to be clear, Tony has a first
round grade on him.
Speaker 1 (08:32):
I don't want people who screaming in replying to this
podcast that Tony hatechid Or Sanders. He does not know
he has a first round grade on him. And look,
there's he's a tough player, he's accurate, he throws are
pretty good anticipation.
Speaker 4 (08:44):
I'm with you.
Speaker 1 (08:45):
I think some of the stuff Tony has thrown off
the back foot stuff, if he had a little bit
of a stronger arm, it wouldn't be as big of
a deal. But the problem is that he doesn't have
that Jordan Love cannon where he can get off platform,
do those type of things and still make plays while
maybe not doing everything in that perfect fundamental way. Look,
he's not helped by the offensive on either right. He's
constantly gone in moving and retreating. So that stuff might
(09:07):
very well get better if he's put into a better environment.
Speaker 2 (09:10):
But you see you mentioned a word there that's also
a red flag, retreating, because when he is pressured, he's
running backwards oftentimes. You know, Ala Zach Wilson, if you
remember that, you can't do that. And as far as
you know, Tony Pauling not liking shud drs Sanders. The
reason I don't like him is he was my number
one quarterback coming into the season. He was far and
(09:30):
away my number one prospect. People were talking about Carson
Beck and quin you Weres a top ten picks. I said,
there's no way those guys are going to be top
ten picks. But when I really watched the film, I
didn't see much progress, if any progress in his game
from last season. In fact, I saw regression in some areas.
And I put a premium on guys who are playing
(09:51):
their best football, especially at the quarterback position, when they
entered the draft. Allah Jaden Daniels, Ala boll Nick's a
La cam Ward, who was a much better quarterback in
twenty twenty four than he was twenty twenty three. Just
one thing on Tyler Shuck. Here's my hurdle, my mental
block with Tyler Schuck. He was outstanding as a red
(10:11):
shirt freshman at Oregon, he was outstanding last year at Louisville.
But I just can't throw away the four years in
between when he was in Texas Tech, with the inconsistency
and the injury. That is what concerns me about Tyler Shuck.
That's why I don't have him. I have him bought
into this Tyler Shuck love because I remember the prior
(10:32):
four years before he played at Louisville last year, wanting
to see this guy take the next let and take
his game the next level. Wanting to see this guy
basically revert to back to where he was as a
red shirt freshman in Oregon and really take off.
Speaker 3 (10:45):
And I didn't see it. That's a concern to me.
Speaker 4 (10:47):
No, And I think that's absolutely fair.
Speaker 1 (10:49):
The body of work, there were holes there, there were
concerns there, the injury, not being able to dominate at
Texas Tech. I'm with you on all. I think that's fair.
The age thing a quarterback doesn't bother me. You're still
getting ten years out of the guy. You're going to
be fine with that, But I think the other stuff
is fair all right. Then you get to the kind
of Jackson Dart, quin Yours, Jalen Milroe area. I think
that's kind of for me, the next kind of tier
(11:10):
of quarterbacks Tony, and.
Speaker 4 (11:13):
It's just Jackson Dart.
Speaker 1 (11:14):
It's hard because it's such a collegiate offense, like he's
not doing NFL things, Like you know, there's arms good enough,
he's good enough mobility wise, but there's not a lot
of NFL stuff on the tape. Jilen Milroe again just
so raw throwing the football, but he's a great athlete.
And then and then quin Yours already kind of talked about.
So I would not be surprised if all of those
guys are off in the second round.
Speaker 4 (11:35):
I think yours may be in the third, but I
think they'll all be.
Speaker 1 (11:37):
We're gonna have more Day two picks this year quarterback
Tony than we've had in like decades.
Speaker 3 (11:42):
And why not.
Speaker 2 (11:43):
I mean, if you are the Cleveland Browns, if you
are the New York Jets, if you're the New York Giants,
are you taking shidor Sanders in the top eight picks,
or are you gonna take the best player available who
can you can put it on the field in twenty
twenty five, he's gonna help you and then take a
collar it back in day two that you can develop
knowing that if we're if we're you're honest with yourself.
(12:05):
Should door Sanders also needs a lot of development in
this game. Shoulder Sanders really isn't gonna help you or
doesn't look like he's gonna be able to help you
as a rookie twenty twenty five. And all those guys
you mentioned, you know, I got Tyler schukin the I
agree with you about to actually Jackson dark Quin viewers.
I think the deep pass. I talk to people who
(12:26):
were at the Texas Prode. They said it's more fundamentals
and it's more footwork than it is arm strength. I
mean even in a Riley Leonards, the calm Accords, the
wool Howers, these guys have the physical skills. These guys
have the arm strength to play on Sunday. They just
need a lot of coaching. They need some work from
the ground up. They need somebody. They need a mentor,
(12:48):
as does should door Sanders.
Speaker 4 (12:50):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (12:50):
I like the way the ball came off of yours
hands at the combine. I thought it came off a
sand really well, I thought him and shook to throwing
those deep outs. I thought both of them looked pretty
good throwing those. When I'm with you on tape, the
deep ball Texas is something that I think he definitely
needs to get ironed out a little bit, all right.
Speaker 4 (13:06):
That last group that you talked about.
Speaker 1 (13:08):
Leonard McCord, Howard Cook, Who are the guy you're do
one of those guys you think have a chance Tony
to develop into a starter or are you just looking at,
you know, good backups with that kind of group there?
Speaker 2 (13:19):
I would say Riley Leonard because I think he improved
as a passer as the year went on. At Notred Game,
I think that you know, Notred Dame didn't have any
star receivers. They had an okay offensive line. He carried
that team with his arm and with his legs, as
opposed to say Jaln Milroll, who anybody who watches the
show knows that I liked a lot basically did it
(13:41):
all with his legs because he lost confidence and it's
passing and his passing ability. So I do think that
Riley Leonard can My issues with Calm McCord and Will Howard.
They have next level physical abilities. They're very slow.
Speaker 3 (13:55):
Moving their head off the primary target.
Speaker 2 (13:56):
They tend to stare down the receiver giveaway passes that
could be a killer on Sunday.
Speaker 1 (14:02):
And I defended Tony. I'll defend myself here too. So
I don't get all the people yelling at me about
shud Or Sanders and the mentions on on YouTube and
Twitter and stuff like that. Guys, would I think he's
gonna be a good, solid starting NFL quarterback. I just
don't see the elite physical tools which I think you
in a lot of ways need now to be an
(14:22):
elite quarterback in the National Football League.
Speaker 4 (14:24):
People talk about Joe Burrow. Joe Burrow's got a.
Speaker 1 (14:26):
Really good arm, and he moves a lot better than
people can credit for too so and he's bigger than
should war Is as well, significantly so for me, I think,
you know, you get him in front of a board
and these coaches get him in these private meetings, he
might be off the charts, you know, approaching the game mentally,
seeing things smart and knowing the game I obviously don't
(14:46):
have the opportunity to do that, so they probably will
have him great at higher than I would just just
watching him on tape. And again, I think the offensive
line is prohibitive in terms of watching him do some
of the stuff and force him to throw a lot
of screens on the offense. It's really simplified thing. But
I think he's a chance to be a good starting
NFL quarterback. But I'm one that wants to shoot for
guys I think have the raw tools to be a
(15:07):
top ten quarterback. So that's why I kind of address
that as I do. All right, let's go to running
back here, Tony Stack class. My god, I keep going
down my list. I'm like another second round guy, another
second round guy, another third round guy, another third round guy,
another third round guy. You have the same thing you went.
Let's see five, what twelve guys? Deep yere, and you're
still within third round pick. So why don't you give
(15:28):
your your top group here and then I'll give mine?
Speaker 3 (15:30):
Yeah, I asked in gent.
Speaker 2 (15:31):
I believe is far and away head and Shoals is
the best running back in this draft, going to be
a top fifteen pick. Then I have all mattreen Hampton,
North Carolina. I still like Caleb Johnson a lot from
Iowa getting run well at the forty, but he plays
fast fast.
Speaker 1 (15:45):
Quin Shawn Jenkins, Well, Tony, you said it, by the way,
on Caleb Johnson, I'm sorry for interrupting you on tape.
He no one catches that dude from behind, Like he
gets out there and no one catches him, So I'm
with you.
Speaker 4 (15:54):
I think he runs faster than his time.
Speaker 3 (15:56):
Great bursting can run the daylight.
Speaker 2 (15:58):
Quin Shawn Jenkins, what I saw during the college football
playoffs is really what I expected to see throughout the season.
That violence, that ability to basically be a one man
show is what I like. Trayvon Henderson of Ohio State.
I love Henderson. I've mentioned about I've mentioned him several
times throughout the season on the show. I think that
(16:19):
Jenkins is going to be drafting before Henderson, but Henderson
does so many different things so well he could turn
out to be the better pro. Trevor Atien of Georgia,
who I believe could be one of the most underrated
bats in this draft. When you get him hitting on
all cylinders, he is tough to stop. Damian Martinez who
was rated highly coming into the season, but was in
a rotational system at Miami because they had so many
(16:42):
good running backs, which can make him great value. Cam
Scattabow of Arizona State. I know everybody is flavor of
the month. Everybody loves him. What he does. He does
exceptionally well, but he's a bit limited as far as
his ability to run the outside. Dylan Sampson outstanding pass catcher,
really fast, just needs to develop his ball carrying skills.
(17:04):
Bioshelle Tooton the Virginia Tech, who I believe is one
of the most underrated backs in the draft. Late day,
late Day two, early day three. Fast, explosive, will pick
and choose the spots on the inside, has the speed
and agility to turn the perimeter.
Speaker 3 (17:18):
Also a terrific pass catcher out of the backfield.
Speaker 2 (17:20):
Really you know, we talked about how it's a deep
group of running backs, but the thing about all these
running backs, the guys I mentioned and even later on,
you get a variety of everything. Okay, ashion genty does
everything wrong, can run on the inside, turn the corner,
be good pass catchers. But then you've got the Hamptons,
the Johnson's, the junkins who are your bigger feature backs.
(17:42):
You know they're gonna pound it out on the inside
and they play fast. And then you've got the Trayvon
Henderson's and the Trevor Atens, who are more of your
scap back creative ball carriers that can you can use
on the outside. If they ever bring back the toss sweep,
you know that you can use those guys on a
toss sweep to get him around the runner.
Speaker 3 (18:00):
They're great open field runners.
Speaker 2 (18:02):
So it's not only a deep class, but there's a
lot of versatility within the class.
Speaker 1 (18:07):
Now I'm with you, all right. I'll go through my
list year Tony and the top is very similar. That's
a little boring. I'm gonna apologize. Gensy's my first guy.
I have him a full tier above Mari and Hampton.
I know there's some news that Hampton could get picked
before genty and they're right next to each other. To me,
there is a clear tier between those two guys. I
have Marian Hampton second. I have him as kind of
like a hybrid first second round grade on him. I
(18:28):
have Caleb Johnson third, right behind him. Literally their tags
are touching. I have quin Shawn Jenkins. I was really
impressed by his combine testing because you watch him, you
don't necessarily see some of the explosiveness on tape to
your point, you see later in the year. But that
kind of moved him up ahead of Travion Henderson. For me,
I have Scam Cam Scatabo next, and that's just going
(18:48):
off the tape. I know that some people have some
concerns with, you know, things with him that are not
tape related.
Speaker 4 (18:55):
Travion Henderson is my next guy.
Speaker 1 (18:58):
Injuries worry me for him, Tony because having two years
at a house state and couldn't stay on the field.
But man, he was good this year. I went through
that tape again. I'm like and I moved him up.
It was better than I thought, higher than I thought
he was gonna be. I have Dylan Samson next, and
I did not think I was gonna like him. I
watched his tape. All he does is run away from
people on tape. Yeah, like short areas. He gets from
(19:19):
zero to thirty like really quickly. He just accelerates extremely
well and makes people miss. He's only two hundred pounds,
but he's only five to nine, so I think that
kind of gives you some leeway there, similar to Travis
ATM there's only one hundred, ninety ninety eight pounds, but
he's five eight, right, So those guys are only five eight,
but they're two hundred, so I think they're they're big
enough to run. I got Devin Neil next in the
(19:41):
third round. I just think he's so solid all around.
He reminds me of the kid that came out of
Kentucky last year that that went to Buffalo, right. I
know he's talking about Yeah, you know who, I mean
who I had a really nice rookie year from uh.
I think he reminds me him a little bit. I
got Bachelle two next to Tony. He is a gooblong speed.
I think his vision at the line could use.
Speaker 4 (20:01):
A little bit of work.
Speaker 1 (20:02):
Still, he's a little slow to the hole sometimes, but
he runs a lot bigger than his two hundred and
six pound frame. Like he will lower his shoulder and
he will finish runs. That dude runs hard and again,
only two hundred and six pounds, but he's only five
to nine, so he's stout.
Speaker 4 (20:16):
He has some power there.
Speaker 1 (20:17):
I got Jordan James next, and I know I might
be helmet scouting here, but he reminds me of the
litter running back that came out of Oregon last year.
Speaker 4 (20:25):
He's didn't test well small, but he sees it really well.
Speaker 1 (20:29):
His short area of quickness is really really good, so
to me, I think he's gonna be a good player.
And then my other last two guys out through out
there outside my top ten, but I like him is RJ. Harvey,
who I just think is really explosive. Is a guy
you can bring in as a change of pace back
and then as a late round, third down back. Marcus
Yarns and I still have three or four running backs
I still have to watch. To be honest with you,
(20:49):
I didn't finish ATM. I didn't finish Damian Martinez. They
can move up into the zone too once I finish him.
But there are backs of all different shypes, shapes and sizes.
To your point, whatever you need, you can find need
a bigger power back and need to receiving back, you
need to fast back, they're all here. There's a lot
of different options, which I love a.
Speaker 3 (21:08):
Couple of things.
Speaker 2 (21:09):
The kid from Kentucky that's on the Bill's Ray Davis
was the name you ever think of as far as
Tuton is concerned. You got to remember people don't know
he was playing on an ankle last season that was
about seventy five percent, so I think that hurt him
and his ability to cut back. His ankle even at
the Senior Bowl was only about ninety percent. The ankle
finally got fully healthy leading up to the combine at
(21:32):
a Pro day when he blew it up. I agree
with you about Samson. The other guy, I do agree
with you. Jordan James is my number eleven back. He
is an explosive guy. He is a violent guy. Only
two hundred and five pounds five nine and a half,
but he plays like a bigger back and he's got
exceptional quickness.
Speaker 3 (21:50):
Doesn't back down to a challenge.
Speaker 2 (21:51):
Not a guy who finishes runs out of bounds will
take your head on. Also a terrific pass catcher out
of the backfield. Again, I remained, I think Damian Martinez
maybe may go later than when I.
Speaker 3 (22:04):
Have him in the third round.
Speaker 2 (22:06):
But I'm partially Martinez didn't carry the ball a lot
last year last season at Miami because, like I said,
they had that rotational system. Go back and watch the
film in twenty twenty three when he was at Oregon State,
where after that season he was created as a solid
second day pick by scouts justifiably.
Speaker 1 (22:24):
So you will have starting running backs picked on Day
three of this draft, Tony. There will be at least
one Day three starting running back pick, maybe more than one.
Speaker 3 (22:32):
So yeah, and guys are just going to contribute.
Speaker 2 (22:35):
You know, Kyle Manage didn't test well, but is a
good ball carrier. Jarques Hunter. I mean there's a guy
who basically give him the ball, he could score from
any point in the field.
Speaker 4 (22:45):
Jayden Blyth is another guy, right, Yeah.
Speaker 2 (22:47):
Jayden Blue of Texas, who I think is just probably
would have been better served going back to school and
developing his game. But he's got great upside and he's
outstanding the ball carry. Then later on Klelle Mellings of Michigan,
Ali Gordon of Oklahoma State, who's coming off a bad season,
but you watch the film and he plays smart, tough football.
Speaker 4 (23:09):
No, I'm with you, it's really good.
Speaker 1 (23:10):
All right, let's jump over to the wide receiver class,
but first to remind their draft seasons brought to you
by Moody's a proud partner of the Giants, uniting the
brightest minds to turn today's risks into tomorrow's opportunities. Learn
more at Moody's dot com. All right, Tony wide receiver.
We both referred to this as a down wide receiver class.
Can I edit that for a second. I think it's
a down wide receiver class at the top. You know,
(23:33):
I don't think I'm a bigger tech McMillan fan than others.
I would have him closer to roam with Dunesay, I
think than other people did. To be totally honest with you,
but you don't have Marvin Rison Junior. You don't have
them E League neighbors in this draft, which to me,
they were head and shoulders, not heading shoulders, but they
were a small tier higher than a dunes A last year.
And then I just got a bunch of guys that
(23:54):
I'd be fine picking in the second or third rounds,
and I think are gonna be really good receivers. Like,
if you have a one A receiver on your roster
already and you're looking for a number two, this is
the draft for you. You can find those guys all
day on day two, so why don't you go through
your list?
Speaker 2 (24:08):
Well, I still have Travis Hunter as a receiver. Maybe
he's a cornerback, but he's on my receiver this list.
Then I have Ted McMillan. I agree with you about McMillan,
but we'll talk about him. Luther Burden of Missouri's number three.
Matthew Golden of Texas. I am not as high on
as others as Golden, but people absolutely love him.
Speaker 3 (24:27):
They raved a bottom at the Texas Prode.
Speaker 2 (24:30):
Mecca Abuca of Ohio State ran faster than expected the
Ohio State Prode. You know he come, he delivers when
it's necessary, but it's never really established himself as a
number one receiver. Elick a Manor. Now we're getting to
the definite second rounders of Stanford is what is my
number six? A Dante Thornton of Tennessee, who I absolutely love.
(24:53):
I think the upside on Thornton is over the moon.
Speaker 4 (24:57):
I have watched him yet I'm looking forward to it.
Speaker 3 (25:00):
Oh, let you then you report back to us when
you watch him.
Speaker 2 (25:03):
Jayden Higgins of Iowa State, He's number eight, bigger possessions
guy who ran faster at the combine that expected. Kyle
Williams of Washington terrific route runner, polished, not big, but
very very well rounded. Isaiah Bond of Texas, who I
don't know, I mean Isaiah. I have Isaiah Bond and
(25:25):
Type Felton of Maryland rated back to back. I think
that may change as we get closer to the draft.
I'm gonna have to go back and watch a lot
of watch both of those guys.
Speaker 1 (25:37):
All right, I'm going to give you my top ten here, Tony,
and some names are different and guys are stacked differently,
so I think this would be a good debate here.
Speaker 4 (25:43):
All right.
Speaker 1 (25:44):
I got Ted mcmiwan as my top guy. I'm just
kind of keeping Travis Hunter off to the side, like, yeah,
he's up there too. I have the same type of
grade on you as as Matthew Golden, but I do
have him as my next receiver. I have like a
first second round grade on him, along with the Mecca Igbuka.
Those are my next two guys. I have Luther Burdon
in the next group. His you know, he's had injuries
(26:05):
two years in a row, Tony, and he's a guy
that is very physical. I love him, you know, after
the catch, and I think he's actually a much better
contested catch player. Then people give him credit for he's
really good at catching the ball in coverage. But again,
that Missouri offense. It's just some of these college offenses. Man,
it drives me nuts, like can you run a real
route please? And you don't see enough of that with Burden.
I have Jalen Noel next out of Iowa State. I
(26:27):
think his combination of juice, he reminds me a lot
of Lad McConkie of speed and quickness together. And I
have Jayden Higgins right next to him, his teammate that
I have those guys literally touching, depending if you want
the smaller, fast guy in Noil or the tall, bigger
guy in Jaden Higgins. I was shocked when I saw
how this came out for me. I actually have Jack
Besh next, and he does have the vertical speed to separate.
(26:51):
But when I watched him on tape Tony, I thought
at the top of the route coming in and out
of his breaks was phenomenal. I thought he was a
really good route runner. He did not have a drop
the last two years. His hands are exceptional. So I
have him next as a as a really good possession receiver.
Then in the next kind of group together stacked in
kind of really close to each other. I have Trey
(27:12):
Harris out of Ole, Miss, Jalen Royals out of Utah State.
There are a lot of people really high on him.
I didn't quite see that these are kind of second
third round guys for me. And I have Iam in
Er out of Stanford ASAA bonds in that mix for me,
and then just a couple of guys I'll throw out.
Speaker 4 (27:28):
There is kind of day four guys, Day three guys that.
Speaker 1 (27:30):
I think could be fun. Saveon Williams at a TCU again,
can you please run a real route for me?
Speaker 4 (27:36):
But he's great.
Speaker 1 (27:36):
He's almost like Quarterall Patterson type. I've heard somebody made
that comp and I like it. Good contested catch guy.
They don't throw him enough down the field just six
four two twenty. He's a monster. I haven't quite figured
out why Isaac Tesla wasn't more productive at Arkansas. As
you know, I watch him and I do the even
putting the testing aside. I thought his tape was actually
(27:57):
pretty good, and then I know we tested terror. I'll
still draft ted Johnson on day three, Tony, I don't care.
Speaker 4 (28:04):
You watch him. He separates it. People have trouble covered.
Speaker 2 (28:06):
Him well, you know, Tesla wasn't more productive because the
ball was going to his teammate Andrew Armstrong, who had
a great prode who I believe is one of the
most underrated overlook receivers in this draft. The one guy
that I have earlier that you didn't mention is DeAndre
Lambert Smith, the Auburn receiver by way of Penn State,
tested incredibly well to combine. When you watch him on film,
(28:29):
he comes away with all the catches, the contested grab,
he catches the ball downfield. It just doesn't have the
great production. My issue with jaylenol I liked his physical skills,
but when I watched him on film, I saw a
guy who could not win out for the contested throw
a lot like Isaiah Bond. He's always struggling in battles,
which I think he needs space to work. I would
(28:50):
agree with you about Jack Besh. He's right outside my
top ten, only because I think the physical skills of
the Jaden Higgins the Dante Thornton's surpass him, and I
like the completeness of a polish in the game of
Kyle Williams of Washington State.
Speaker 1 (29:07):
Yeah, I love Kyle Williams at the senior Bowl Tony,
and I will admit I have not gotten to his
game tape yet, so I think he might break into
my top ten once I'm done with it. Because he
was phenomenal at the Senior Bowl. I thought he was
really good. What separates Golden and Agbuka for you? Because
I struggled stacking those guys. I literally had them right
next to each other. You know, Golden the four two
(29:27):
nine at the Combine does not show up on tape.
I'll just say that first and foremal he does not
look like a four to two nine player. But I
thought his route running was really good. He knows how
to separate at the top of the route, and that's
what impressed me about him.
Speaker 4 (29:37):
I think he's just a great route runner.
Speaker 2 (29:38):
And that's what stood out to people who are at
the Texas Prole, the decision makers I spoke with. If
you saw my tweet about Texas brought it, I said
Golden was well Golden, and that's what he is. I
think the difference is I think Golden's got much higher upside.
I like Abuka, but Abuka has disappointed me. In prior
to the twenty twenty three season, I had a first
(30:00):
round great on him, yet he didn't consistently play like
a first rounder. He's taking a back seat to Marvin Harrison,
He's taking a back seat to Jerrymia Smith. He did
come up big for the team and the college football playoffs,
but it's always with the Buka as far as I'm concerned.
It's always one of these things where you expect more
from him. I mean, Golden delivered in big spots and
Golden was a big play receiver at Texas, and I
(30:21):
think I think the best way for me to put
it is Golden has a much higher upside while Thebuka
is probably the safer receiver. He doesn't have as much
downside risk as Matthew Golden.
Speaker 1 (30:34):
Yeah, and Buka does everything well, right, He blocks, he
does the dirty work, and you know, he played mostly
at the Slaughterhouse day Tony. I think he's actually could
be a pretty good outside receiver in the NFL. He's
got the size and the speed to play outside in
my opinion, So I think that gives him some.
Speaker 4 (30:48):
Flexibility there, which is good.
Speaker 1 (30:51):
Luther Burden, how much of a project is he going
to be in the NFL level? Getting him kind of
into an NFL offense or is he always just going
to be kind of like a yack deep pass guy
and not really technician as a route runner.
Speaker 3 (31:01):
I think he's gonna do it.
Speaker 2 (31:02):
I think the problem with the burden is coming into
the season he was overrated. Remember he was graded as
the number one prospect by scouts who great underclassmen before
the twenty twenty four seasons. Not the number one receiver,
the number one prospect, higher than Will Campbell, higher than
Shador Sanders, who's getting huge grades. And I don't think
he ever deserved that sort of that sort of building.
(31:25):
And now it's come down a little bit. A lot
of people think that he's not a great natural pass catcher.
They like Abuca better as a pass catcher, like McMillan
better as a pass catcher. But you know, I agree
with you about the Missouri offense's he doesn't have an
extended route treet. He's got to learn to run more routes.
He's got to learn to run his routes better. But
(31:46):
he's got decent size. He's not huge, but he's got
good size. He's not super fast, but he's fast enough.
So and he you know, he's a guy that's got
a great amount of upside. Let me just say one
thing about Ted McMillan. We talked about shad Or Sanders before.
Tech McMillan is a guy, and I can't get my
thumb on it just yet. I'm sure I will buy
(32:07):
a draft day. He's all over the place on boards.
I have him as a top ten pick. There were
some people saying they wouldn't take them to the bottom
half of round one. I'm hearing character issues, but no
one has really explained what those character issues are. Evidently,
he did an interview in a podcast where he said
he never watches tape, which is a real stupid thing.
(32:30):
You remember Donnie Mitchell last year, you know, hit the
press conferences at the Combine where he really tanked his
draft stock. I think if that's the only thing with
Tech McMillan, it's not an issue. But it's if that's
just one of many things with Tech McMillan, and I
have not found that out yet. Once these broad days
are over, I'll start to dive a little bit deeper.
(32:51):
You know, that could be an issue. I know that
Tech McMillan's people have said to him, you know, have
said that. You know there's a possibility he drops out
of the top ten. So Ted McMillan, I guess is
like the shudor Sanders at the receiver position that he's
all over the place on draft boards.
Speaker 1 (33:06):
All right, the last receiver I want to touch on Tony.
Then we only got about ten minutes left. We still
got to do tight end an offensive line. The Stanford receiver,
I have him lower for me than you do. I
feel like he's just very rawstale. I like the physical traits,
but you know, okay, ratt Ronner just doesn't do a
whole lot. He's kind of good at everything, but not
great at anything. Why are you such a big fan of
(33:27):
Diamater upside?
Speaker 2 (33:28):
I mean, he is a contested catch, you know, a
game controlling receiver who ran much faster at the combine
than he does on film. I would have never thought
he was going to run a four to four to
four of the combine, no way. So now it's just
a matter of coaching him to play to that speed
on the football field, and if you can mesh that
(33:50):
with his ability to catch the ball, because he catches
the ball very well. Fundamentally, he goes up and he
snatches the ball away from his frame You've got something
there a year or two down the road. Same thing
with Donton Heo. Dante Thorton, you can make when you
watch him. Let me know what you think. Dante Thornton
catches the ball better, and he's more of a downfield threat,
and he's slightly bigger. To tell you the truth.
Speaker 4 (34:10):
No, I'm with you, all right. Let's go to tight
ends here, Tony, you have wrong cheet here.
Speaker 1 (34:18):
You have Colson Loveland still a number one for you,
just ahead of Tyler Warren. I have those two guys
swapped on my board. We both have Arroyo at number three.
You have Mason Taylor at four. I have Mason Taylor
at five. I have Harold Fadden up a little bit
higher than you do. Then we both have Terrence Ferguinson
next on our list, and then you have Aronde, Gadston,
Joshua Simon. Then you have Fanning come in there at
(34:39):
number eight, Thomas Fedone out of Nebraska, and then Gunner
Helm out of Texas.
Speaker 3 (34:44):
I'm gonna say this right now.
Speaker 2 (34:46):
I think the best tight ends from this class are
gonna come from day two of the draft. I think
the Arroyas, maybe the Mason Taylor's, Eurondre Gadson's the Josh
Simon's two or three years down the road will be
the best tight ends from this class.
Speaker 3 (35:00):
I think when you.
Speaker 2 (35:00):
Compare Loveland to Tyler Warren, Loveland is much more the
downfield threat. He's much more the natural receivers good. He's
more Brock Hours, if you will, than Tyler Warren is,
although he's not Rock Bowers, but he's more that type
of player. Tyler Warren is a great college football player.
He was a lot of fun to watch, lined them
up all over the place, did everything Penn State asked
(35:22):
him to do. Doesn't mean he's a great NFL prospect.
I think he's a very good tight end. I just
don't think he's a great prospect that I would take
early in the draft. And people are talking about him
as being a top ten pick. I spoke with the
league inside of yesterday who was at the game against
USC where Tyler Warren caught fourteen passes and everyone went
over the moon to him, and I made the observation.
(35:44):
I was like, yeah, but if you really watch that tape,
I think drewel Law was targeting Tyler Warren to his detriment.
There were other receivers open all over the field which
would have led to bigger plays, and he agreed with me.
Speaker 3 (35:55):
Tyler Warren is a nice prospect.
Speaker 2 (35:57):
I think the thing with Tyler Warren in this draft
is when you look at all of those tight ends,
Tyler Warren is the guy who's going to be starting
week one as a blocker, as a pass catcher. He's
going to give you the earlier returns. Whereas the Arroyors,
Miranda Gatson's, the Josh Simons, even Colston Loveland with the
shoulder injury, they are more questions as to what they're
(36:19):
going to be able to produce in twenty twenty five,
which is why Tyler Warren is likely to be the
first height end drafted, Like Teed McMillan, like schendor Sanders.
He's all over the place. When you talk to people,
some people say, you know, top ten pick, Others say
late first round. I spoke with someone said he's the
number four tight end on our board, and I understand
(36:41):
it because that offense, they want their tight ends to
get down the field consistently for a vertical passing game
at the position, and Tyler Warren is not that type.
Speaker 4 (36:50):
Of prospect interesting.
Speaker 1 (36:52):
How far do you think Loveland might drop because of
that shoulder injury.
Speaker 2 (36:56):
I don't think he's going to get past any of
the loss unless something really pops up, and I was
told it was an ac issue, but I'm also told
he'll be ready for camp unless their doctors look at
it negatively. I don't think he gets past either Los
Angeles teams, whether that be the Rams with the Chargers.
Speaker 1 (37:13):
I love a royal Tony, I'm with you. I think
he is good of his receiving skills as anyone else
in this draft class'll the Terrence Ferguson I think is
really good as well, And I know I think Mason
Taylor is just really solid all around. Like that guy
is going to be a good I don't know if
he's ever going to be a star, but he is
going to be a good tight end in the league
for a very long time.
Speaker 4 (37:28):
And he's very young.
Speaker 3 (37:29):
And I don't know.
Speaker 2 (37:29):
Why Ironde Gatson doesn't get more love. We saw him
at the Shrine Bowl practices. He was you know, he
was two hundred and forty forty five pounds of Shrine
Bowl practice. He wasn't moving around like a slow guy
who just put on twenty pounds. He was moving around
at the tight end position like the receiver catching the
ball incredibly well. So I think as he just becomes
(37:51):
more accustomed to playing that position and hopefully improves his blocking,
I think Gatson is one of the most overlooked players
at this spot moving towards the t All right.
Speaker 1 (38:00):
Let's do offensive line, Tony real quick, give me your ranking.
He's got about six minutes.
Speaker 2 (38:05):
Will Campbell number one, slightly ahead of armand Membo. I mean,
I mean slightly, but I think Membo could be the
first tackle taken. Calvin Banks of Texas is three. Josh
Simmons of Ohio State is the number four because I
think he's more of a natural left tackle or the
most natural left tackle after Will Campbell, Tyler Booker of
Alabama than Josh Connery of Oregon, Gray Zabel of North
(38:29):
Dakota State, Donovan Jackson of Ohio State, Jonahs Savanea of Arizona,
Marcus Bow of Purdue. I still like him. A lot
of people are down on him. Azerray of Minnesota number nine,
and Cameron Williams of Texas number ten.
Speaker 1 (38:45):
Yeah, I think that's a good lroue. But I have
mine kind of separated by tackle and guards. I'll try
to do it off the top of my head. Here,
I got Campbell and Membo as the top two guys,
very close to each other.
Speaker 4 (38:54):
I could go either way. I have Josh Simmons as
my next guy. Tony.
Speaker 1 (38:58):
I watched him my gosh, utterly dominant his one hand punch,
just keeping guys off of him. It's like a It's
like an eighteen year old playing with us, like seven
year old brother, and you're just holding him by like
the chest, and he's like waving his arms that he
can't get to him.
Speaker 4 (39:11):
And that's what it looks like watching Joshiabban sometimes.
Speaker 1 (39:14):
Then I got Kelvin Banks next, Josh Connerley's coming in
after that.
Speaker 4 (39:18):
I really liked the Gray's Abel.
Speaker 1 (39:20):
Donovan Jackson, Tyler Booker is kind of that top of
the second round group. I don't think Donovan Jackson can
play tackle in the pros, even though he did a
good jobit oal House State. I don't think he's got
the foot speed forward. Same for greys Abel. I think
both of them are guards. Tyler Booker again didn't test well,
but really really solid player. He's in that group for me,
and then I'm with you. I got the savon a
is the ursery I have as a straight up second rounder.
(39:43):
I think he's gonna be a solid starting tackle. Then
I get into the Wyatt Millums, DeMarcus Bosey, you know
those type of guys after that. So I think we're
really in line here. If i'd ask here right now,
who's getting picked first, Will Campbell or armand Membo.
Speaker 3 (39:56):
I'm gonna go with Membo.
Speaker 2 (39:58):
I think you look at the Patriots at four, you
look at the Jaguars at five, you look at the
Raiders six, you look at the Jets at seven, or
any of those teams to take them. I mean, the
Patriots could also take Will Campbell because they need more
of a left tackle. But I just think Membo is
more of that Mike Vrabel type of offensive lineman, punching
(40:20):
the face, you know, step on you when you're down.
You know the one thing about Simmons you mentioned his arm,
punching everything else.
Speaker 3 (40:26):
He's an athletic guy.
Speaker 2 (40:27):
I mean, box with tremendous fundamentals, excellent knee ben wide base,
keeps his feet moving. It's a shame that he got
injured when he did or we would be talking about
Josh Simmons as one of the top three tackles or
at least a top twelve pick in this year's draft.
Speaker 1 (40:45):
Tony, if he stayed healthy and he played as well
as in the first games, we won't be talking about
him as a top five pick, like he might be
the next best pick after Hunter and Carter, Like he
could very well easily be that next guy given.
Speaker 4 (40:56):
His physical tools. But all of a sudden, done, Tony.
Speaker 1 (40:59):
I thought, in a draft like this where you're gonna
run out of first round picks by pick the early
twenties in this draft, in terms of grades, that teams
are gonna probably pick guys that are safe, and I think,
especially interior offensive linemen are probably the safer guys you
could pick, in my opinion at least, so I would
not be shocked to see Booker Zabel Jackson connorly though.
(41:22):
I see him as a tackle all end up, and
I think we might end up getting more first round
offensive lineman than we originally thought, just because of the
nature of the draft class, and teams would be like, look,
I can show up my offensive line at the end
of the first round. Hell yeah, I'm gonna do that
instead of picking some second round wide receiver.
Speaker 2 (41:37):
I would be shocked if Booker really makes it out
of the top twenty two picks. I mean, yeah, he
did not test well, but he did not time well okay,
and the marks weren't great. But if you watch the
position drills, it was night and day because in up
position drills at the combine is what you see on film.
You see a guy who can actually move his feet.
He's not a stiff, small area blocker, some ability to
(42:00):
block on the second level, and he's got that nastiness
to him. He's got that power to him. So I
think he's a power gap blocker that if you want
to use him on the second level or use him
emotion on occasion, he'll do the job for you.
Speaker 1 (42:15):
I think what I love connorly Man. He moves so well,
his footwork is great. I think maybe he's a little
light in the butt, like he can maybe get a
little bit stronger. And that's not because that one senior
bower up either has nothing to do with that. You
just saw him, was it Abdul Carter that I think
on one play literally long arm him and like put
him right on his back.
Speaker 4 (42:32):
On one play, I think and maybe the I think
it was Carter. I got a Carter did that one
of the guys I watched the last couple of days.
Speaker 1 (42:38):
I think it was him. But I think Connelly can
get a little bit stronger. But he definitely has the
feet to play offensive tackle. He's going to be fine
out there.
Speaker 2 (42:44):
And he's another zone blocker. He's another guy that's really
exceptional in motion. And in my opinion, it's easier to
take his own blocker and make him stronger than it
is to take a strong, powerful, small area alignment from
college and teach him to be his own blocker.
Speaker 4 (42:59):
And that's why I have as a second rounder.
Speaker 1 (43:01):
And Connorley is a first last second with ursery is
you're much bigger, not moving all that well right, kind
of grind it out power type of offensive tackle.
Speaker 2 (43:09):
Today. He's got tremendous upside. He just needs a lot
more work and he needs a lot more consistency. Really,
as far as I'm concerned, has got to play to
his level of potential each snap.
Speaker 1 (43:21):
All right, Tony, I gotta go record a big blue kickoff.
This was fun, my friend. Next week, folks, stay with us,
We'll be here on Tuesday again or Wednesday, and we
will have the top tens on defense as I try
to cram all these guys in on my tape watching
over the next seven days to catch up to Tony,
who I keep running faster and Tony just keeps staying
ahead of me with his Olympic background. I know you shot,
I need to buy a car or something like that.
(43:41):
I don't know, Tony, good stuff, Ben, enjoy your week.
Anything on sports key to coming up that people should
keep their eye on.
Speaker 2 (43:47):
Just the last couple of pro days, and we've got
the mock draft simulator updated. That's always a lot of fun.
And then from here it's all news and rumors through
Draft Draft weekend. Probably a couple more mock drafts as
well for.
Speaker 4 (44:00):
Tony Pollone on John Smelk. That's Draft season, brought to
you by Moodies. We'll see you next week. Everybody,
Now officially open. This is Draft season. John Smelt Tony
Pauline with you. It's all brought to you by Moody's,
a proud partner of the New York Giants. Deco Addrest,
Unlock Opportunity. Learn more at moodies dot com. Tony Pauline
from Sports Keita, Tony. We are just over three weeks
(00:23):
until Draft night. It has come particularly fast this year.
We're gonna do our top ten offensive rankings this week
before we get there, though, anything you want to hit
on in terms of prode's or news or anything like that.
Speaker 2 (00:33):
So Prode's are basically over, Thank you Lord, because Mars
just drags for me.
Speaker 3 (00:38):
Because I'm sitting by the phone.
Speaker 2 (00:40):
I think the big news, and I had known this
for a couple of weeks, but I waited till it happened.
The big news last week is that Tyler Warren did
nothing at prode. Tyler Warren did nothing at the combine either,
no testing, no position drills, didn't do we have any
of that at Penn State. I was privy to that
information as they wrote in Sports Skeet a couple of
weeks before it had and basically what their plan was
(01:03):
with what Tyler Warren's team plan was is there are
four or five teams which are very interested in Tyler
Warren and they're just going to, for lack of a
better word, market Tyler Warren to those teams, no testing,
no position drills. I wasn't told whether or not he's
going to run forties when those teams come in to
(01:25):
work him out. Those teams were the Jets, those teams
were the Cults, those teams were the Bears, and the
team one team was the Rams. I'm also told the
Saints and the Charges also, like we'll get into that
where he goes as far as when we get to
the position, that the tight end position. But it's interesting
fewer and fewer players working out and then a guy
(01:45):
like Tyler Warren who doesn't do anything at the combine
or at prode so there's really no marks on them.
Speaker 1 (01:52):
And Tony a lot of people have him as their
top tight end. I'm not going to argue with that.
I think that's fine. Him and close to Loveland are
very close for me. We'll talk about the tight ends
on today. But both of us did worry of his burst,
his twitchiness and like got part on his tape and
historically Penn State players with their strength and conditioning program
tend to test extremely well, yep, with that program. So
(02:15):
maybe red flag might be too strong. But maybe like
a yellow flag gets put up the flagpole a little
bit that all right, Well, if he's not testing, that
means the testing is probably not very good.
Speaker 3 (02:27):
Well, I would say it's a red fuig.
Speaker 2 (02:28):
I mean, if you remember the COVID year when there
was no twenty twenty one, when there was no combine,
and that Penn State prode where all these two hundred
and forty pounds guys were running in the four threes,
the high four threes. And let's also not forget Michael Mayer.
Remember the tight end from Notre Dame, who no one
thought was going to run under four to eight. He
goes to the combine, he runs a four to seven.
(02:49):
He ran it the combine because he knew he was
going to dispel those myths that he was a slow
tight end. So if you've got the speed and you
are running faster than is ex you're gonna get your
rear end out there and run the forty for scouts.
So what you said is right on. In my opinion,
it's more of a red flag than it is.
Speaker 3 (03:07):
A yellow flag.
Speaker 1 (03:09):
Yeah, absolutely, all right, So let's get into our top
tens here, Tony, let's talk about quarterbacks. Cam Ward. Both
of us have him at number one. Why don't you
go through the rest of your top ten and then
I'll throw some names in there myself in the door.
I have them ranked, and then we'll kind of debate
back and forth.
Speaker 2 (03:27):
Cam Ward number one, Schador Sanders number two, I have
Jackson Dart number three. I've got Quinn Viewers number four.
A lot of people are going to disagree with that.
Quinn Ewers has done a lot of winning on the
college level. He's always come through. There were some in
some areas of his game he needs to improve, but
I'm sticking with him as number four. Jalen Milroe number five,
physically the most gifted player in this draft, but someone
(03:50):
whose game has been on the downhill since the second
half of last season. Tyler Schunk of Louisville number six,
Riley Leonard of Note your name number seven. Then it
fills out with Colm Cord of Syracuse, whoever is a
fourth round pick, and ninety ten to two fifth rounders.
Will Howard of Ohause State Brady Cook of Missouri.
Speaker 4 (04:08):
All right, so I'm with the cam Ward at one.
Speaker 1 (04:11):
Now You're probably gonna laugh at me, Tony, as I
told you I was part of the Tyler Schuck crew.
Speaker 4 (04:18):
I do not have a first round grade on Shad
or Sanders myself.
Speaker 1 (04:21):
I have a kind of a top of the second
now that will get him pushed up into the first round,
because that's what happens with quarterbacks. Most second round graded
quarterbacks go in the first round anyway. But I do
have I'm a guy that shoots for upside with QBS,
and I think the physical tools and I know the
injuries in the age. I will roll my dice on
Tyler Shook. I have him in Sanders tags basically touching
(04:41):
in round two. I have Jackson Dhart as my fourth quarterback.
I have kind of like a second third round and
the second round grade on him. I'm with you, quin yours,
I have him at five. I was impressed with the tape,
to be honest with you, Tony, I think I like
his approach to the game where he plays very loose.
He is a loose arm. It's not like an A
(05:03):
plus arm, but it's it's a better than average arm.
In my opinion, he puts the ball into some tight areas.
I'd rather coach that out of a guy than to
coach it into a guy, you know what I mean.
Speaker 4 (05:12):
I just like his approach.
Speaker 1 (05:13):
I think he's just inconsistent from week to week, Like
you can't pull some of the throws off. He tries
to pull off some of the time. But I have
yours is five with the third round grade. I have
Jaln Milroe after him as just a pure developmental guy. Like,
if you're just grading on his play, he's probably a
fourth round pick. But obviously you're grading him on his potential,
so he's gonna get pushed up higher than that. I
(05:34):
think Will Howard is a safe round four type of pick.
Com McCord, same deal. Round four. That's where I got.
I would probably have Riley Leonard and and Breed Cook
coming up next on that list. I was wondering, you
not Dylan Gabriel on your list, and a lot of
there are fans of his around the league. Would he
be next up for you in your group or even
a little bit further down the board for you?
Speaker 3 (05:55):
No, I believe he is.
Speaker 2 (05:57):
Actually he's a little farther down because of what we
saw at the Senior Ball and the Combine. After him,
I got the kid from Canada, Elglismar Taylor, who's got
a big arm. I like Curtis Ark and Maxwell Brosner.
Brosmer of Minnesota is a guy that's got a better arm.
I think with Dylan Gabriel. Dylan Gabriel, I love him
(06:18):
from the shoulders up. It's just from the physical tools
down that you know. I think he's going to be
a real good backup on Sunday who could maybe be
a spot starter.
Speaker 1 (06:31):
All right, So let's have the debate here, because I
think everyone of those cam Ward's gonna be the first
quarterback taken right from what you're hearing right now, do
you think Shador Sanders is in the mixed top five?
Speaker 4 (06:41):
Still?
Speaker 1 (06:41):
Do you think he's gonna end up slipping a little bit?
What are you hearing around the league about generally what
teams are thinking about Shador.
Speaker 3 (06:46):
I'll go back to the combine.
Speaker 2 (06:47):
I wrote a story sports Kinna had said Shador Sanders
was in fact slipping, And there are some people who
agree with you. When I say people, I mean teams
in the NFL who say they wouldn't take Shador Sanders
in the first round out. People will say, well, you know,
the the negatives and people can play well, you know,
it's not fair because they don't like his attitude or
(07:10):
character or arrogance. But it goes deeper with that than
Shador Sanders. As we've said here on the show multiple times,
the twenty twenty four film is not much better in
fact than twenty twenty three. In fact, it's even worse
in some areas. It's not a big guy. He doesn't
have a big arm. Fundamentally, we've talked about time and
time again on the show. He's a horror fundamentally, throwing
(07:32):
off his back foot, not releasing the ball with improper footwork,
slow moving his head off the primary target, puts the
ball up for grabs, doesn't have a huge harm. I
mean the fact that it Shador Sanders coached by Dion Sanders,
you know, I think kind of elevates him in the outside.
Speaker 3 (07:51):
Of the scouting community. And someone brought this up to me.
Speaker 2 (07:54):
They said, you know what, here's a guy who's always
been coached by his dad. What's going to happen when
he has to take coaching from someone else. That's also
something you know, I don't want to say it's a
red flag, but it's something to be concerned about.
Speaker 3 (08:06):
So I still have him as my number two quarterback.
Speaker 2 (08:09):
I've had him in mock drass since the combine going
to the New Orleans Saints. But there are some people
who agree with you. They would take Tyler Shock over
shad Or Sanders. And if Sanders is not a second
round pick, he's a late first round pick absolutely falling.
Speaker 3 (08:28):
We'll see how far he falls.
Speaker 4 (08:30):
And look, just to be clear, Tony has a first
round grade on him.
Speaker 1 (08:32):
I don't want people who screaming in replying to this
podcast that Tony hatechid Or Sanders. He does not know
he has a first round grade on him. And look,
there's he's a tough player, he's accurate, he throws are
pretty good anticipation.
Speaker 4 (08:44):
I'm with you.
Speaker 1 (08:45):
I think some of the stuff Tony has thrown off
the back foot stuff, if he had a little bit
of a stronger arm, it wouldn't be as big of
a deal. But the problem is that he doesn't have
that Jordan Love cannon where he can get off platform,
do those type of things and still make plays while
maybe not doing everything in that perfect fundamental way. Look,
he's not helped by the offensive on either right. He's
constantly gone in moving and retreating. So that stuff might
(09:07):
very well get better if he's put into a better environment.
Speaker 2 (09:10):
But you see you mentioned a word there that's also
a red flag, retreating, because when he is pressured, he's
running backwards oftentimes. You know, Ala Zach Wilson, if you
remember that, you can't do that. And as far as
you know, Tony Pauling not liking shud drs Sanders. The
reason I don't like him is he was my number
one quarterback coming into the season. He was far and
(09:30):
away my number one prospect. People were talking about Carson
Beck and quin you Weres a top ten picks. I said,
there's no way those guys are going to be top
ten picks. But when I really watched the film, I
didn't see much progress, if any progress in his game
from last season. In fact, I saw regression in some areas.
And I put a premium on guys who are playing
(09:51):
their best football, especially at the quarterback position, when they
entered the draft. Allah Jaden Daniels, Ala boll Nick's a
La cam Ward, who was a much better quarterback in
twenty twenty four than he was twenty twenty three. Just
one thing on Tyler Shuck. Here's my hurdle, my mental
block with Tyler Schuck. He was outstanding as a red
(10:11):
shirt freshman at Oregon, he was outstanding last year at Louisville.
But I just can't throw away the four years in
between when he was in Texas Tech, with the inconsistency
and the injury. That is what concerns me about Tyler Shuck.
That's why I don't have him. I have him bought
into this Tyler Shuck love because I remember the prior
(10:32):
four years before he played at Louisville last year, wanting
to see this guy take the next let and take
his game the next level. Wanting to see this guy
basically revert to back to where he was as a
red shirt freshman in Oregon and really take off.
Speaker 3 (10:45):
And I didn't see it. That's a concern to me.
Speaker 4 (10:47):
No, And I think that's absolutely fair.
Speaker 1 (10:49):
The body of work, there were holes there, there were
concerns there, the injury, not being able to dominate at
Texas Tech. I'm with you on all. I think that's fair.
The age thing a quarterback doesn't bother me. You're still
getting ten years out of the guy. You're going to
be fine with that, But I think the other stuff
is fair all right. Then you get to the kind
of Jackson Dart, quin Yours, Jalen Milroe area. I think
that's kind of for me, the next kind of tier
(11:10):
of quarterbacks Tony, and.
Speaker 4 (11:13):
It's just Jackson Dart.
Speaker 1 (11:14):
It's hard because it's such a collegiate offense, like he's
not doing NFL things, Like you know, there's arms good enough,
he's good enough mobility wise, but there's not a lot
of NFL stuff on the tape. Jilen Milroe again just
so raw throwing the football, but he's a great athlete.
And then and then quin Yours already kind of talked about.
So I would not be surprised if all of those
guys are off in the second round.
Speaker 4 (11:35):
I think yours may be in the third, but I
think they'll all be.
Speaker 1 (11:37):
We're gonna have more Day two picks this year quarterback
Tony than we've had in like decades.
Speaker 3 (11:42):
And why not.
Speaker 2 (11:43):
I mean, if you are the Cleveland Browns, if you
are the New York Jets, if you're the New York Giants,
are you taking shidor Sanders in the top eight picks,
or are you gonna take the best player available who
can you can put it on the field in twenty
twenty five, he's gonna help you and then take a
collar it back in day two that you can develop
knowing that if we're if we're you're honest with yourself.
(12:05):
Should door Sanders also needs a lot of development in
this game. Shoulder Sanders really isn't gonna help you or
doesn't look like he's gonna be able to help you
as a rookie twenty twenty five. And all those guys
you mentioned, you know, I got Tyler schukin the I
agree with you about to actually Jackson dark Quin viewers.
I think the deep pass. I talk to people who
(12:26):
were at the Texas Prode. They said it's more fundamentals
and it's more footwork than it is arm strength. I
mean even in a Riley Leonards, the calm Accords, the
wool Howers, these guys have the physical skills. These guys
have the arm strength to play on Sunday. They just
need a lot of coaching. They need some work from
the ground up. They need somebody. They need a mentor,
(12:48):
as does should door Sanders.
Speaker 4 (12:50):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (12:50):
I like the way the ball came off of yours
hands at the combine. I thought it came off a
sand really well, I thought him and shook to throwing
those deep outs. I thought both of them looked pretty
good throwing those. When I'm with you on tape, the
deep ball Texas is something that I think he definitely
needs to get ironed out a little bit, all right.
Speaker 4 (13:06):
That last group that you talked about.
Speaker 1 (13:08):
Leonard McCord, Howard Cook, Who are the guy you're do
one of those guys you think have a chance Tony
to develop into a starter or are you just looking at,
you know, good backups with that kind of group there?
Speaker 2 (13:19):
I would say Riley Leonard because I think he improved
as a passer as the year went on. At Notred Game,
I think that you know, Notred Dame didn't have any
star receivers. They had an okay offensive line. He carried
that team with his arm and with his legs, as
opposed to say Jaln Milroll, who anybody who watches the
show knows that I liked a lot basically did it
(13:41):
all with his legs because he lost confidence and it's
passing and his passing ability. So I do think that
Riley Leonard can My issues with Calm McCord and Will Howard.
They have next level physical abilities. They're very slow.
Speaker 3 (13:55):
Moving their head off the primary target.
Speaker 2 (13:56):
They tend to stare down the receiver giveaway passes that
could be a killer on Sunday.
Speaker 1 (14:02):
And I defended Tony. I'll defend myself here too. So
I don't get all the people yelling at me about
shud Or Sanders and the mentions on on YouTube and
Twitter and stuff like that. Guys, would I think he's
gonna be a good, solid starting NFL quarterback. I just
don't see the elite physical tools which I think you
in a lot of ways need now to be an
(14:22):
elite quarterback in the National Football League.
Speaker 4 (14:24):
People talk about Joe Burrow. Joe Burrow's got a.
Speaker 1 (14:26):
Really good arm, and he moves a lot better than
people can credit for too so and he's bigger than
should war Is as well, significantly so for me, I think,
you know, you get him in front of a board
and these coaches get him in these private meetings, he
might be off the charts, you know, approaching the game mentally,
seeing things smart and knowing the game I obviously don't
(14:46):
have the opportunity to do that, so they probably will
have him great at higher than I would just just
watching him on tape. And again, I think the offensive
line is prohibitive in terms of watching him do some
of the stuff and force him to throw a lot
of screens on the offense. It's really simplified thing. But
I think he's a chance to be a good starting
NFL quarterback. But I'm one that wants to shoot for
guys I think have the raw tools to be a
(15:07):
top ten quarterback. So that's why I kind of address
that as I do. All right, let's go to running
back here, Tony Stack class. My god, I keep going
down my list. I'm like another second round guy, another
second round guy, another third round guy, another third round guy,
another third round guy. You have the same thing you went.
Let's see five, what twelve guys? Deep yere, and you're
still within third round pick. So why don't you give
(15:28):
your your top group here and then I'll give mine?
Speaker 3 (15:30):
Yeah, I asked in gent.
Speaker 2 (15:31):
I believe is far and away head and Shoals is
the best running back in this draft, going to be
a top fifteen pick. Then I have all mattreen Hampton,
North Carolina. I still like Caleb Johnson a lot from
Iowa getting run well at the forty, but he plays
fast fast.
Speaker 1 (15:45):
Quin Shawn Jenkins, Well, Tony, you said it, by the way,
on Caleb Johnson, I'm sorry for interrupting you on tape.
He no one catches that dude from behind, Like he
gets out there and no one catches him, So I'm
with you.
Speaker 4 (15:54):
I think he runs faster than his time.
Speaker 3 (15:56):
Great bursting can run the daylight.
Speaker 2 (15:58):
Quin Shawn Jenkins, what I saw during the college football
playoffs is really what I expected to see throughout the season.
That violence, that ability to basically be a one man
show is what I like. Trayvon Henderson of Ohio State.
I love Henderson. I've mentioned about I've mentioned him several
times throughout the season on the show. I think that
(16:19):
Jenkins is going to be drafting before Henderson, but Henderson
does so many different things so well he could turn
out to be the better pro. Trevor Atien of Georgia,
who I believe could be one of the most underrated
bats in this draft. When you get him hitting on
all cylinders, he is tough to stop. Damian Martinez who
was rated highly coming into the season, but was in
a rotational system at Miami because they had so many
(16:42):
good running backs, which can make him great value. Cam
Scattabow of Arizona State. I know everybody is flavor of
the month. Everybody loves him. What he does. He does
exceptionally well, but he's a bit limited as far as
his ability to run the outside. Dylan Sampson outstanding pass catcher,
really fast, just needs to develop his ball carrying skills.
(17:04):
Bioshelle Tooton the Virginia Tech, who I believe is one
of the most underrated backs in the draft. Late day,
late Day two, early day three. Fast, explosive, will pick
and choose the spots on the inside, has the speed
and agility to turn the perimeter.
Speaker 3 (17:18):
Also a terrific pass catcher out of the backfield.
Speaker 2 (17:20):
Really you know, we talked about how it's a deep
group of running backs, but the thing about all these
running backs, the guys I mentioned and even later on,
you get a variety of everything. Okay, ashion genty does
everything wrong, can run on the inside, turn the corner,
be good pass catchers. But then you've got the Hamptons,
the Johnson's, the junkins who are your bigger feature backs.
(17:42):
You know they're gonna pound it out on the inside
and they play fast. And then you've got the Trayvon
Henderson's and the Trevor Atens, who are more of your
scap back creative ball carriers that can you can use
on the outside. If they ever bring back the toss sweep,
you know that you can use those guys on a
toss sweep to get him around the runner.
Speaker 3 (18:00):
They're great open field runners.
Speaker 2 (18:02):
So it's not only a deep class, but there's a
lot of versatility within the class.
Speaker 1 (18:07):
Now I'm with you, all right. I'll go through my
list year Tony and the top is very similar. That's
a little boring. I'm gonna apologize. Gensy's my first guy.
I have him a full tier above Mari and Hampton.
I know there's some news that Hampton could get picked
before genty and they're right next to each other. To me,
there is a clear tier between those two guys. I
have Marian Hampton second. I have him as kind of
like a hybrid first second round grade on him. I
(18:28):
have Caleb Johnson third, right behind him. Literally their tags
are touching. I have quin Shawn Jenkins. I was really
impressed by his combine testing because you watch him, you
don't necessarily see some of the explosiveness on tape to
your point, you see later in the year. But that
kind of moved him up ahead of Travion Henderson. For me,
I have Scam Cam Scatabo next, and that's just going
(18:48):
off the tape. I know that some people have some
concerns with, you know, things with him that are not
tape related.
Speaker 4 (18:55):
Travion Henderson is my next guy.
Speaker 1 (18:58):
Injuries worry me for him, Tony because having two years
at a house state and couldn't stay on the field.
But man, he was good this year. I went through
that tape again. I'm like and I moved him up.
It was better than I thought, higher than I thought
he was gonna be. I have Dylan Samson next, and
I did not think I was gonna like him. I
watched his tape. All he does is run away from
people on tape. Yeah, like short areas. He gets from
(19:19):
zero to thirty like really quickly. He just accelerates extremely
well and makes people miss. He's only two hundred pounds,
but he's only five to nine, so I think that
kind of gives you some leeway there, similar to Travis
ATM there's only one hundred, ninety ninety eight pounds, but
he's five eight, right, So those guys are only five eight,
but they're two hundred, so I think they're they're big
enough to run. I got Devin Neil next in the
(19:41):
third round. I just think he's so solid all around.
He reminds me of the kid that came out of
Kentucky last year that that went to Buffalo, right. I
know he's talking about Yeah, you know who, I mean
who I had a really nice rookie year from uh.
I think he reminds me him a little bit. I
got Bachelle two next to Tony. He is a gooblong speed.
I think his vision at the line could use.
Speaker 4 (20:01):
A little bit of work.
Speaker 1 (20:02):
Still, he's a little slow to the hole sometimes, but
he runs a lot bigger than his two hundred and
six pound frame. Like he will lower his shoulder and
he will finish runs. That dude runs hard and again,
only two hundred and six pounds, but he's only five
to nine, so he's stout.
Speaker 4 (20:16):
He has some power there.
Speaker 1 (20:17):
I got Jordan James next, and I know I might
be helmet scouting here, but he reminds me of the
litter running back that came out of Oregon last year.
Speaker 4 (20:25):
He's didn't test well small, but he sees it really well.
Speaker 1 (20:29):
His short area of quickness is really really good, so
to me, I think he's gonna be a good player.
And then my other last two guys out through out
there outside my top ten, but I like him is RJ. Harvey,
who I just think is really explosive. Is a guy
you can bring in as a change of pace back
and then as a late round, third down back. Marcus
Yarns and I still have three or four running backs
I still have to watch. To be honest with you,
(20:49):
I didn't finish ATM. I didn't finish Damian Martinez. They
can move up into the zone too once I finish him.
But there are backs of all different shypes, shapes and sizes.
To your point, whatever you need, you can find need
a bigger power back and need to receiving back, you
need to fast back, they're all here. There's a lot
of different options, which I love a.
Speaker 3 (21:08):
Couple of things.
Speaker 2 (21:09):
The kid from Kentucky that's on the Bill's Ray Davis
was the name you ever think of as far as
Tuton is concerned. You got to remember people don't know
he was playing on an ankle last season that was
about seventy five percent, so I think that hurt him
and his ability to cut back. His ankle even at
the Senior Bowl was only about ninety percent. The ankle
finally got fully healthy leading up to the combine at
(21:32):
a Pro day when he blew it up. I agree
with you about Samson. The other guy, I do agree
with you. Jordan James is my number eleven back. He
is an explosive guy. He is a violent guy. Only
two hundred and five pounds five nine and a half,
but he plays like a bigger back and he's got
exceptional quickness.
Speaker 3 (21:50):
Doesn't back down to a challenge.
Speaker 2 (21:51):
Not a guy who finishes runs out of bounds will
take your head on. Also a terrific pass catcher out
of the backfield. Again, I remained, I think Damian Martinez
maybe may go later than when I.
Speaker 3 (22:04):
Have him in the third round.
Speaker 2 (22:06):
But I'm partially Martinez didn't carry the ball a lot
last year last season at Miami because, like I said,
they had that rotational system. Go back and watch the
film in twenty twenty three when he was at Oregon State,
where after that season he was created as a solid
second day pick by scouts justifiably.
Speaker 1 (22:24):
So you will have starting running backs picked on Day
three of this draft, Tony. There will be at least
one Day three starting running back pick, maybe more than one.
Speaker 3 (22:32):
So yeah, and guys are just going to contribute.
Speaker 2 (22:35):
You know, Kyle Manage didn't test well, but is a
good ball carrier. Jarques Hunter. I mean there's a guy
who basically give him the ball, he could score from
any point in the field.
Speaker 4 (22:45):
Jayden Blyth is another guy, right, Yeah.
Speaker 2 (22:47):
Jayden Blue of Texas, who I think is just probably
would have been better served going back to school and
developing his game. But he's got great upside and he's
outstanding the ball carry. Then later on Klelle Mellings of Michigan,
Ali Gordon of Oklahoma State, who's coming off a bad season,
but you watch the film and he plays smart, tough football.
Speaker 4 (23:09):
No, I'm with you, it's really good.
Speaker 1 (23:10):
All right, let's jump over to the wide receiver class,
but first to remind their draft seasons brought to you
by Moody's a proud partner of the Giants, uniting the
brightest minds to turn today's risks into tomorrow's opportunities. Learn
more at Moody's dot com. All right, Tony wide receiver.
We both referred to this as a down wide receiver class.
Can I edit that for a second. I think it's
a down wide receiver class at the top. You know,
(23:33):
I don't think I'm a bigger tech McMillan fan than others.
I would have him closer to roam with Dunesay, I
think than other people did. To be totally honest with you,
but you don't have Marvin Rison Junior. You don't have
them E League neighbors in this draft, which to me,
they were head and shoulders, not heading shoulders, but they
were a small tier higher than a dunes A last year.
And then I just got a bunch of guys that
(23:54):
I'd be fine picking in the second or third rounds,
and I think are gonna be really good receivers. Like,
if you have a one A receiver on your roster
already and you're looking for a number two, this is
the draft for you. You can find those guys all
day on day two, so why don't you go through
your list?
Speaker 2 (24:08):
Well, I still have Travis Hunter as a receiver. Maybe
he's a cornerback, but he's on my receiver this list.
Then I have Ted McMillan. I agree with you about McMillan,
but we'll talk about him. Luther Burden of Missouri's number three.
Matthew Golden of Texas. I am not as high on
as others as Golden, but people absolutely love him.
Speaker 3 (24:27):
They raved a bottom at the Texas Prode.
Speaker 2 (24:30):
Mecca Abuca of Ohio State ran faster than expected the
Ohio State Prode. You know he come, he delivers when
it's necessary, but it's never really established himself as a
number one receiver. Elick a Manor. Now we're getting to
the definite second rounders of Stanford is what is my
number six? A Dante Thornton of Tennessee, who I absolutely love.
(24:53):
I think the upside on Thornton is over the moon.
Speaker 4 (24:57):
I have watched him yet I'm looking forward to it.
Speaker 3 (25:00):
Oh, let you then you report back to us when
you watch him.
Speaker 2 (25:03):
Jayden Higgins of Iowa State, He's number eight, bigger possessions
guy who ran faster at the combine that expected. Kyle
Williams of Washington terrific route runner, polished, not big, but
very very well rounded. Isaiah Bond of Texas, who I
don't know, I mean Isaiah. I have Isaiah Bond and
(25:25):
Type Felton of Maryland rated back to back. I think
that may change as we get closer to the draft.
I'm gonna have to go back and watch a lot
of watch both of those guys.
Speaker 1 (25:37):
All right, I'm going to give you my top ten here, Tony,
and some names are different and guys are stacked differently,
so I think this would be a good debate here.
Speaker 4 (25:43):
All right.
Speaker 1 (25:44):
I got Ted mcmiwan as my top guy. I'm just
kind of keeping Travis Hunter off to the side, like, yeah,
he's up there too. I have the same type of
grade on you as as Matthew Golden, but I do
have him as my next receiver. I have like a
first second round grade on him, along with the Mecca Igbuka.
Those are my next two guys. I have Luther Burdon
in the next group. His you know, he's had injuries
(26:05):
two years in a row, Tony, and he's a guy
that is very physical. I love him, you know, after
the catch, and I think he's actually a much better
contested catch player. Then people give him credit for he's
really good at catching the ball in coverage. But again,
that Missouri offense. It's just some of these college offenses. Man,
it drives me nuts, like can you run a real
route please? And you don't see enough of that with Burden.
I have Jalen Noel next out of Iowa State. I
(26:27):
think his combination of juice, he reminds me a lot
of Lad McConkie of speed and quickness together. And I
have Jayden Higgins right next to him, his teammate that
I have those guys literally touching, depending if you want
the smaller, fast guy in Noil or the tall, bigger
guy in Jaden Higgins. I was shocked when I saw
how this came out for me. I actually have Jack
Besh next, and he does have the vertical speed to separate.
(26:51):
But when I watched him on tape Tony, I thought
at the top of the route coming in and out
of his breaks was phenomenal. I thought he was a
really good route runner. He did not have a drop
the last two years. His hands are exceptional. So I
have him next as a as a really good possession receiver.
Then in the next kind of group together stacked in
kind of really close to each other. I have Trey
(27:12):
Harris out of Ole, Miss, Jalen Royals out of Utah State.
There are a lot of people really high on him.
I didn't quite see that these are kind of second
third round guys for me. And I have Iam in
Er out of Stanford ASAA bonds in that mix for me,
and then just a couple of guys I'll throw out.
Speaker 4 (27:28):
There is kind of day four guys, Day three guys that.
Speaker 1 (27:30):
I think could be fun. Saveon Williams at a TCU again,
can you please run a real route for me?
Speaker 4 (27:36):
But he's great.
Speaker 1 (27:36):
He's almost like Quarterall Patterson type. I've heard somebody made
that comp and I like it. Good contested catch guy.
They don't throw him enough down the field just six
four two twenty. He's a monster. I haven't quite figured
out why Isaac Tesla wasn't more productive at Arkansas. As
you know, I watch him and I do the even
putting the testing aside. I thought his tape was actually
(27:57):
pretty good, and then I know we tested terror. I'll
still draft ted Johnson on day three, Tony, I don't care.
Speaker 4 (28:04):
You watch him. He separates it. People have trouble covered.
Speaker 2 (28:06):
Him well, you know, Tesla wasn't more productive because the
ball was going to his teammate Andrew Armstrong, who had
a great prode who I believe is one of the
most underrated overlook receivers in this draft. The one guy
that I have earlier that you didn't mention is DeAndre
Lambert Smith, the Auburn receiver by way of Penn State,
tested incredibly well to combine. When you watch him on film,
(28:29):
he comes away with all the catches, the contested grab,
he catches the ball downfield. It just doesn't have the
great production. My issue with jaylenol I liked his physical skills,
but when I watched him on film, I saw a
guy who could not win out for the contested throw
a lot like Isaiah Bond. He's always struggling in battles,
which I think he needs space to work. I would
(28:50):
agree with you about Jack Besh. He's right outside my
top ten, only because I think the physical skills of
the Jaden Higgins the Dante Thornton's surpass him, and I
like the completeness of a polish in the game of
Kyle Williams of Washington State.
Speaker 1 (29:07):
Yeah, I love Kyle Williams at the senior Bowl Tony,
and I will admit I have not gotten to his
game tape yet, so I think he might break into
my top ten once I'm done with it. Because he
was phenomenal at the Senior Bowl. I thought he was
really good. What separates Golden and Agbuka for you? Because
I struggled stacking those guys. I literally had them right
next to each other. You know, Golden the four two
(29:27):
nine at the Combine does not show up on tape.
I'll just say that first and foremal he does not
look like a four to two nine player. But I
thought his route running was really good. He knows how
to separate at the top of the route, and that's
what impressed me about him.
Speaker 4 (29:37):
I think he's just a great route runner.
Speaker 2 (29:38):
And that's what stood out to people who are at
the Texas Prole, the decision makers I spoke with. If
you saw my tweet about Texas brought it, I said
Golden was well Golden, and that's what he is. I
think the difference is I think Golden's got much higher upside.
I like Abuka, but Abuka has disappointed me. In prior
to the twenty twenty three season, I had a first
(30:00):
round great on him, yet he didn't consistently play like
a first rounder. He's taking a back seat to Marvin Harrison,
He's taking a back seat to Jerrymia Smith. He did
come up big for the team and the college football playoffs,
but it's always with the Buka as far as I'm concerned.
It's always one of these things where you expect more
from him. I mean, Golden delivered in big spots and
Golden was a big play receiver at Texas, and I
(30:21):
think I think the best way for me to put
it is Golden has a much higher upside while Thebuka
is probably the safer receiver. He doesn't have as much
downside risk as Matthew Golden.
Speaker 1 (30:34):
Yeah, and Buka does everything well, right, He blocks, he
does the dirty work, and you know, he played mostly
at the Slaughterhouse day Tony. I think he's actually could
be a pretty good outside receiver in the NFL. He's
got the size and the speed to play outside in
my opinion, So I think that gives him some.
Speaker 4 (30:48):
Flexibility there, which is good.
Speaker 1 (30:51):
Luther Burden, how much of a project is he going
to be in the NFL level? Getting him kind of
into an NFL offense or is he always just going
to be kind of like a yack deep pass guy
and not really technician as a route runner.
Speaker 3 (31:01):
I think he's gonna do it.
Speaker 2 (31:02):
I think the problem with the burden is coming into
the season he was overrated. Remember he was graded as
the number one prospect by scouts who great underclassmen before
the twenty twenty four seasons. Not the number one receiver,
the number one prospect, higher than Will Campbell, higher than
Shador Sanders, who's getting huge grades. And I don't think
he ever deserved that sort of that sort of building.
(31:25):
And now it's come down a little bit. A lot
of people think that he's not a great natural pass catcher.
They like Abuca better as a pass catcher, like McMillan
better as a pass catcher. But you know, I agree
with you about the Missouri offense's he doesn't have an
extended route treet. He's got to learn to run more routes.
He's got to learn to run his routes better. But
(31:46):
he's got decent size. He's not huge, but he's got
good size. He's not super fast, but he's fast enough.
So and he you know, he's a guy that's got
a great amount of upside. Let me just say one
thing about Ted McMillan. We talked about shad Or Sanders before.
Tech McMillan is a guy, and I can't get my
thumb on it just yet. I'm sure I will buy
(32:07):
a draft day. He's all over the place on boards.
I have him as a top ten pick. There were
some people saying they wouldn't take them to the bottom
half of round one. I'm hearing character issues, but no
one has really explained what those character issues are. Evidently,
he did an interview in a podcast where he said
he never watches tape, which is a real stupid thing.
(32:30):
You remember Donnie Mitchell last year, you know, hit the
press conferences at the Combine where he really tanked his
draft stock. I think if that's the only thing with
Tech McMillan, it's not an issue. But it's if that's
just one of many things with Tech McMillan, and I
have not found that out yet. Once these broad days
are over, I'll start to dive a little bit deeper.
(32:51):
You know, that could be an issue. I know that
Tech McMillan's people have said to him, you know, have
said that. You know there's a possibility he drops out
of the top ten. So Ted McMillan, I guess is
like the shudor Sanders at the receiver position that he's
all over the place on draft boards.
Speaker 1 (33:06):
All right, the last receiver I want to touch on Tony.
Then we only got about ten minutes left. We still
got to do tight end an offensive line. The Stanford receiver,
I have him lower for me than you do. I
feel like he's just very rawstale. I like the physical traits,
but you know, okay, ratt Ronner just doesn't do a
whole lot. He's kind of good at everything, but not
great at anything. Why are you such a big fan of
(33:27):
Diamater upside?
Speaker 2 (33:28):
I mean, he is a contested catch, you know, a
game controlling receiver who ran much faster at the combine
than he does on film. I would have never thought
he was going to run a four to four to
four of the combine, no way. So now it's just
a matter of coaching him to play to that speed
on the football field, and if you can mesh that
(33:50):
with his ability to catch the ball, because he catches
the ball very well. Fundamentally, he goes up and he
snatches the ball away from his frame You've got something
there a year or two down the road. Same thing
with Donton Heo. Dante Thorton, you can make when you
watch him. Let me know what you think. Dante Thornton
catches the ball better, and he's more of a downfield threat,
and he's slightly bigger. To tell you the truth.
Speaker 4 (34:10):
No, I'm with you, all right. Let's go to tight
ends here, Tony, you have wrong cheet here.
Speaker 1 (34:18):
You have Colson Loveland still a number one for you,
just ahead of Tyler Warren. I have those two guys
swapped on my board. We both have Arroyo at number three.
You have Mason Taylor at four. I have Mason Taylor
at five. I have Harold Fadden up a little bit
higher than you do. Then we both have Terrence Ferguinson
next on our list, and then you have Aronde, Gadston,
Joshua Simon. Then you have Fanning come in there at
(34:39):
number eight, Thomas Fedone out of Nebraska, and then Gunner
Helm out of Texas.
Speaker 3 (34:44):
I'm gonna say this right now.
Speaker 2 (34:46):
I think the best tight ends from this class are
gonna come from day two of the draft. I think
the Arroyas, maybe the Mason Taylor's, Eurondre Gadson's the Josh
Simon's two or three years down the road will be
the best tight ends from this class.
Speaker 3 (35:00):
I think when you.
Speaker 2 (35:00):
Compare Loveland to Tyler Warren, Loveland is much more the
downfield threat. He's much more the natural receivers good. He's
more Brock Hours, if you will, than Tyler Warren is,
although he's not Rock Bowers, but he's more that type
of player. Tyler Warren is a great college football player.
He was a lot of fun to watch, lined them
up all over the place, did everything Penn State asked
(35:22):
him to do. Doesn't mean he's a great NFL prospect.
I think he's a very good tight end. I just
don't think he's a great prospect that I would take
early in the draft. And people are talking about him
as being a top ten pick. I spoke with the
league inside of yesterday who was at the game against
USC where Tyler Warren caught fourteen passes and everyone went
over the moon to him, and I made the observation.
(35:44):
I was like, yeah, but if you really watch that tape,
I think drewel Law was targeting Tyler Warren to his detriment.
There were other receivers open all over the field which
would have led to bigger plays, and he agreed with me.
Speaker 3 (35:55):
Tyler Warren is a nice prospect.
Speaker 2 (35:57):
I think the thing with Tyler Warren in this draft
is when you look at all of those tight ends,
Tyler Warren is the guy who's going to be starting
week one as a blocker, as a pass catcher. He's
going to give you the earlier returns. Whereas the Arroyors,
Miranda Gatson's, the Josh Simons, even Colston Loveland with the
shoulder injury, they are more questions as to what they're
(36:19):
going to be able to produce in twenty twenty five,
which is why Tyler Warren is likely to be the
first height end drafted, Like Teed McMillan, like schendor Sanders.
He's all over the place. When you talk to people,
some people say, you know, top ten pick, Others say
late first round. I spoke with someone said he's the
number four tight end on our board, and I understand
(36:41):
it because that offense, they want their tight ends to
get down the field consistently for a vertical passing game
at the position, and Tyler Warren is not that type.
Speaker 4 (36:50):
Of prospect interesting.
Speaker 1 (36:52):
How far do you think Loveland might drop because of
that shoulder injury.
Speaker 2 (36:56):
I don't think he's going to get past any of
the loss unless something really pops up, and I was
told it was an ac issue, but I'm also told
he'll be ready for camp unless their doctors look at
it negatively. I don't think he gets past either Los
Angeles teams, whether that be the Rams with the Chargers.
Speaker 1 (37:13):
I love a royal Tony, I'm with you. I think
he is good of his receiving skills as anyone else
in this draft class'll the Terrence Ferguson I think is
really good as well, And I know I think Mason
Taylor is just really solid all around. Like that guy
is going to be a good I don't know if
he's ever going to be a star, but he is
going to be a good tight end in the league
for a very long time.
Speaker 4 (37:28):
And he's very young.
Speaker 3 (37:29):
And I don't know.
Speaker 2 (37:29):
Why Ironde Gatson doesn't get more love. We saw him
at the Shrine Bowl practices. He was you know, he
was two hundred and forty forty five pounds of Shrine
Bowl practice. He wasn't moving around like a slow guy
who just put on twenty pounds. He was moving around
at the tight end position like the receiver catching the
ball incredibly well. So I think as he just becomes
(37:51):
more accustomed to playing that position and hopefully improves his blocking,
I think Gatson is one of the most overlooked players
at this spot moving towards the t All right.
Speaker 1 (38:00):
Let's do offensive line, Tony real quick, give me your ranking.
He's got about six minutes.
Speaker 2 (38:05):
Will Campbell number one, slightly ahead of armand Membo. I mean,
I mean slightly, but I think Membo could be the
first tackle taken. Calvin Banks of Texas is three. Josh
Simmons of Ohio State is the number four because I
think he's more of a natural left tackle or the
most natural left tackle after Will Campbell, Tyler Booker of
Alabama than Josh Connery of Oregon, Gray Zabel of North
(38:29):
Dakota State, Donovan Jackson of Ohio State, Jonahs Savanea of Arizona,
Marcus Bow of Purdue. I still like him. A lot
of people are down on him. Azerray of Minnesota number nine,
and Cameron Williams of Texas number ten.
Speaker 1 (38:45):
Yeah, I think that's a good lroue. But I have
mine kind of separated by tackle and guards. I'll try
to do it off the top of my head. Here,
I got Campbell and Membo as the top two guys,
very close to each other.
Speaker 4 (38:54):
I could go either way. I have Josh Simmons as
my next guy. Tony.
Speaker 1 (38:58):
I watched him my gosh, utterly dominant his one hand punch,
just keeping guys off of him. It's like a It's
like an eighteen year old playing with us, like seven
year old brother, and you're just holding him by like
the chest, and he's like waving his arms that he
can't get to him.
Speaker 4 (39:11):
And that's what it looks like watching Joshiabban sometimes.
Speaker 1 (39:14):
Then I got Kelvin Banks next, Josh Connerley's coming in
after that.
Speaker 4 (39:18):
I really liked the Gray's Abel.
Speaker 1 (39:20):
Donovan Jackson, Tyler Booker is kind of that top of
the second round group. I don't think Donovan Jackson can
play tackle in the pros, even though he did a
good jobit oal House State. I don't think he's got
the foot speed forward. Same for greys Abel. I think
both of them are guards. Tyler Booker again didn't test well,
but really really solid player. He's in that group for me,
and then I'm with you. I got the savon a
is the ursery I have as a straight up second rounder.
(39:43):
I think he's gonna be a solid starting tackle. Then
I get into the Wyatt Millums, DeMarcus Bosey, you know
those type of guys after that. So I think we're
really in line here. If i'd ask here right now,
who's getting picked first, Will Campbell or armand Membo.
Speaker 3 (39:56):
I'm gonna go with Membo.
Speaker 2 (39:58):
I think you look at the Patriots at four, you
look at the Jaguars at five, you look at the
Raiders six, you look at the Jets at seven, or
any of those teams to take them. I mean, the
Patriots could also take Will Campbell because they need more
of a left tackle. But I just think Membo is
more of that Mike Vrabel type of offensive lineman, punching
(40:20):
the face, you know, step on you when you're down.
You know the one thing about Simmons you mentioned his arm,
punching everything else.
Speaker 3 (40:26):
He's an athletic guy.
Speaker 2 (40:27):
I mean, box with tremendous fundamentals, excellent knee ben wide base,
keeps his feet moving. It's a shame that he got
injured when he did or we would be talking about
Josh Simmons as one of the top three tackles or
at least a top twelve pick in this year's draft.
Speaker 1 (40:45):
Tony, if he stayed healthy and he played as well
as in the first games, we won't be talking about
him as a top five pick, like he might be
the next best pick after Hunter and Carter, Like he
could very well easily be that next guy given.
Speaker 4 (40:56):
His physical tools. But all of a sudden, done, Tony.
Speaker 1 (40:59):
I thought, in a draft like this where you're gonna
run out of first round picks by pick the early
twenties in this draft, in terms of grades, that teams
are gonna probably pick guys that are safe, and I think,
especially interior offensive linemen are probably the safer guys you
could pick, in my opinion at least, so I would
not be shocked to see Booker Zabel Jackson connorly though.
(41:22):
I see him as a tackle all end up, and
I think we might end up getting more first round
offensive lineman than we originally thought, just because of the
nature of the draft class, and teams would be like, look,
I can show up my offensive line at the end
of the first round. Hell yeah, I'm gonna do that
instead of picking some second round wide receiver.
Speaker 2 (41:37):
I would be shocked if Booker really makes it out
of the top twenty two picks. I mean, yeah, he
did not test well, but he did not time well okay,
and the marks weren't great. But if you watch the
position drills, it was night and day because in up
position drills at the combine is what you see on film.
You see a guy who can actually move his feet.
He's not a stiff, small area blocker, some ability to
(42:00):
block on the second level, and he's got that nastiness
to him. He's got that power to him. So I
think he's a power gap blocker that if you want
to use him on the second level or use him
emotion on occasion, he'll do the job for you.
Speaker 1 (42:15):
I think what I love connorly Man. He moves so well,
his footwork is great. I think maybe he's a little
light in the butt, like he can maybe get a
little bit stronger. And that's not because that one senior
bower up either has nothing to do with that. You
just saw him, was it Abdul Carter that I think
on one play literally long arm him and like put
him right on his back.
Speaker 4 (42:32):
On one play, I think and maybe the I think
it was Carter. I got a Carter did that one
of the guys I watched the last couple of days.
Speaker 1 (42:38):
I think it was him. But I think Connelly can
get a little bit stronger. But he definitely has the
feet to play offensive tackle. He's going to be fine
out there.
Speaker 2 (42:44):
And he's another zone blocker. He's another guy that's really
exceptional in motion. And in my opinion, it's easier to
take his own blocker and make him stronger than it
is to take a strong, powerful, small area alignment from
college and teach him to be his own blocker.
Speaker 4 (42:59):
And that's why I have as a second rounder.
Speaker 1 (43:01):
And Connorley is a first last second with ursery is
you're much bigger, not moving all that well right, kind
of grind it out power type of offensive tackle.
Speaker 2 (43:09):
Today. He's got tremendous upside. He just needs a lot
more work and he needs a lot more consistency. Really,
as far as I'm concerned, has got to play to
his level of potential each snap.
Speaker 1 (43:21):
All right, Tony, I gotta go record a big blue kickoff.
This was fun, my friend. Next week, folks, stay with us,
We'll be here on Tuesday again or Wednesday, and we
will have the top tens on defense as I try
to cram all these guys in on my tape watching
over the next seven days to catch up to Tony,
who I keep running faster and Tony just keeps staying
ahead of me with his Olympic background. I know you shot,
I need to buy a car or something like that.
(43:41):
I don't know, Tony, good stuff, Ben, enjoy your week.
Anything on sports key to coming up that people should
keep their eye on.
Speaker 2 (43:47):
Just the last couple of pro days, and we've got
the mock draft simulator updated. That's always a lot of fun.
And then from here it's all news and rumors through
Draft Draft weekend. Probably a couple more mock drafts as
well for.
Speaker 4 (44:00):
Tony Pollone on John Smelk. That's Draft season, brought to
you by Moodies. We'll see you next week. Everybody,
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