April 2, 2025 • 36 mins
Travis is joined by CBS and NFL Network’s Charles Davis to break down the Dolphins offseason so far and what it means for the draft. Plus. Travis does a deep dive on Texas DB Jahdae Barron.
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:07):
What is up Dolphins and welcome to the Draft Time Podcast.
I am your host, Travis Wingfield and on today's show,
the Great Charles Davis joins us to talk all things
Dolphins off season, how to watch film, we'll talk about
that as well as the upcoming draft for your Miami Dolphins.
Plus we're breaking down another player on the draft or
i should say the options for thirteen deep dive profiles.
(00:30):
That's Jday Baron out of Texas from the Baptist Hill
Studios inside the Baptist Health Training Complex.
Speaker 2 (00:35):
This is.
Speaker 3 (00:39):
The Draft Time Podcast.
Speaker 2 (00:40):
Ye Daffy.
Speaker 1 (00:43):
And joining us here today on Dolphins HQ, and the
Draft Time Podcast is NFL Networks. Charles Davis and CD.
We do this about once a year, give or take.
It's one of my favorite interviews of the entire year.
Good to see you again, man, How you doing.
Speaker 2 (00:57):
I'm doing great? Drafts is always great to see you
and I'm always appreciative that you would welcome me into
the Dolphins family for a short time each and every
year because I'm just a guy, right, I'm just a
person who likes ball and we're all in it together.
I don't know if I've got anything really to offer,
but you're always gracious, You're always kind, and it's always
fun to have a chat with you. It's good back
(01:18):
and forth. I get to learn a lot.
Speaker 3 (01:19):
Well.
Speaker 1 (01:20):
You certainly offer plenty, and we learn a lot from you.
That's why we have you on every single year, and
I always get a kick out of seeing you around
here at training camp. Once in a while, we see
you on the coverage of the draft. You know, I
was telling one of the other producers here, one of
my favorite things about the draft coverage is the stump
the truck and you, my friend, are the best at
that game. I'm curious to explain to the fans maybe
(01:41):
what that is and why it's so much.
Speaker 3 (01:43):
Fun for you guys to have that.
Speaker 1 (01:44):
I think it's like a deep Day three part of
the show, right, it really.
Speaker 2 (01:48):
Is, Travis. You you absolutely nailed it. It's a deep
Day three. We are in rounds probably six and seven
at that point. And it's not that those young people
getting selected is not important, but you're not going pick
to pick to pick to pick to pick, right. So
the people who work on our show and prepare for
the draft, they have to have this deep database of
(02:09):
potential draftees, you know, and our truck I think gets
around one thousand somewhere in that neighborhood of people that
they have where they went to school, when they played
and as you understand Travis, I mean, every team has
people on it. Did they go? Where did he play
college football? Right? How did he get here? We have
(02:30):
people who wear gold jackets as Hall of Fame members
that were never drafted into the NFL. They may have
come from an obscure school. So we do this thing
called stunk the truck where people get to I guess nowadays, right,
you just you know, you tweet it in or blue
sky it in or whatever it is, and and you know, hey,
do you have such and such such and such player
(02:53):
from such such such such school? Okay, and them telling
you they can be the most obscure schools. But somebody
at home's like, this guy's a player, do you have him?
But what we do ourselves that we have people do
the questions and then we do it ourselves because we've
done our research and we've done our stuff, and we'll
ask the truck do you have Travis Wingfield from you know,
(03:18):
Saint Albans Prep, A D three and wherever wherever are,
you know, that sort of a thing, and they go
through their database and more times than not fit and
not only do they have the player, there's a highlight
of the player. Yeah, and that's just always a lot
of fun because we get to illuminate some places and
you know, like we got this young man this year
(03:39):
that's not going to make stump the truck is too easy.
But the tank who plays offensive line, it's out of Middlebury,
Like what Middlebury College? A D three guy? Well, of
course we had Ali Marpett come out of Hobart a
few years ago became a Pro Bowl player. Maybe we'll
have the same thing, you know, Thomas Perry, I believe
(04:00):
the young man's name.
Speaker 1 (04:01):
Yeah, it happens every I mean Quinn Minor. It's right,
all pro from a Wisconsin whitewater. Like it happens every
single year. It's so good and I love seeing the
way you guys get all fired up because like you
can almost tell, like that third day of draft coverage
for everybody across the league, the fatigue starts to set in,
but that kind of gets you that final push there
over the hump to finish the day and finish the
draft process. Let's go ahead and get into the football
(04:21):
stuff here, Charles and I want to I have two
leadoff questions that I wrote down. I'll go ahead and
start with this one first, and it's it's not Dolphins
related yet. We'll get there eventually, I promise. But I
have a question about just watching tape because this is
something that I struggle with as something of a I
guess i'll call myself a tape dog myself as well.
And maybe this is twofold, but we see all kinds
of players have pretty big swings in terms of their
(04:43):
performance from year to year. It's why this league is
just so tough to predict every single season. You know,
guys can struggle then become all pros or vice versa.
My question is when you have a collection of tape,
and this you know applies for multi year stars in
college too, But how do you weigh like the impressive
nature of the good tape maybe for one year was
really good, maybe another year was kind of a down year.
(05:06):
Like how do you balance the good reps versus the
bad reps, whether it's a college prospect a pro from
year to year. Like that's a roadblock I have in
my own film study. I'm curious to get an expert's
opinion on that, Travis.
Speaker 2 (05:17):
Is a great question, and I think you hit on
something that I would dare say the vast majority of
us ponder and wonder ourselves. You and I can't speak
for anyone else in this business and how they watch tape, right,
we don't know that, but my suspicion is, having watched
it for a long time, you've done the same thing
when you talk with other people, I'm guessing you're not
(05:39):
the only one to see kind of asking this question.
And when I've gotten and I don't know if I'm
going to call it a consensus, but people I really
respect who are great at doing this Scout, GMS, right assistant,
gas personnel, people, coaches, all that. There's an expression that
I've learned in the last few years called grading the
flat and the flashes, meaning the really good plays that
(06:04):
you were talking about, right, the really good stretches that
you saw on tape. CJ. Stroud. I'm going to use
an example. Quarterback at Ohio State before he went to
the Houston texts a member of him and Bryce Young
his year, Right, who do you like? Who do you like?
Who do you like, there was all that discussion about CJ. Stroud.
We didn't see him run the ball ahead of a lot, right, didn'
(06:25):
see him break out of the pocket and run it
was there consistency in certain things he did, et cetera,
et cetera. And then, as you know, Dravis, then we
had the Georgia game in the College Football Playoff and CJ.
Stroud was incredible that night, right, And that became kind
of the mantra around the league for people who were
thinking about, Okay, can I move up and get him?
(06:46):
Do I want him whatever? We've seen him do it. Now,
if it's on tape and you've seen him do it,
that means he can do it again. And now you
have to go into your organization. You're head coach, who's
going to coim what kind of training you're going to provide,
what's your environment? So, as you know, Travis, sometimes we
have if I take it out of CJ. Strod and
(07:08):
I go to a person who we saw have great
promise and fell off, can we get back to that
great promise? Do I have an organization and a coach
that I think can get there? And I'll give you
a quick example, Derek Stingley junior. Derek Stingley, remember he
was the consensus guy from his freshman year at LSU,
(07:30):
but he had injuries, didn't play as much last couple
of years in school, and then came Sauce gardener. So
now we got a whole different conversation because Sauce was
really consistent and kept getting better at Cincinnati. Who do
you like better? Well, if you grated the Flashes, it's
hard to get stinkly out of your head. But if
(07:50):
you're watching the last two years in school, Sauce was
clearly the one who was ascending and playing well. You
remember how the draft rolled out. By the time we
got to the draft, Travis Sauce was ahead on most
people's scorecards, but Derek Stingley got picked before Sauce, one
pick before Sauce because Houston had graded the Flashes felt
(08:11):
they had the right people there, and Sauce started out
the first two years was an all Pro as you
remember rookie. The whole thing Derek Stingley had injury issues,
wasn't as consistent. Starting twenty twenty three, Derek Stalely came
off of an injury and has played at a level
and kept descending where he was an All Pro last year,
(08:33):
Sauce's team wasn't as good was you know, things weren't
quite as great for him. He's still a great player
and going to be again. But now Stingley's good hit
the All Pro status that Sauce has hit prior. So
it's all a matter of you know, what do you
believe you can get If you've seen it before, you
feel like you can get it again? And do we
(08:53):
have the people to bring it out of them? And
is it in that young man to bring it out
of himself again? So that's where that homework comes in.
And Travis, we all do so much homework, right We
all work at it, and no one works at it
more than the coaches, the scouts, the people thirty two
NFL teams and they're lucky if they hit fifty. And
(09:14):
they work at it like man, it is a very
tough thing to do. And sometimes I keep having to
remind myself and I want to call our brethren sometime
and say, hey, you do know just how tough this is? Right,
Like we get on these people like mad, how'd you
miss here? Cause you and I both know using Sauce
(09:34):
in Derek Stingley. You know the Houston people call you
know what during sauces first two years. Yes, absolutely right,
I think has worked out pretty well.
Speaker 3 (09:44):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (09:45):
I love that comparison because it reminds me of a
different player that we'll talk about. Come back and maybe
put a pin in that, because I do want to
get back to Malachi Starks, who I feel kind of
got that like good tape fatigue where it's like he
was such a good player that we kind of forgot
about him and maybe the draft consents around him became
a little bit, you know, pulled down because of that.
But let's come back to that, CD, because I want
to go back to the Dolphins here and get into
(10:06):
the official Dolphins draft conversation here and kick it off
with talking about free agency and how that might impact
their draft thinking. Because we saw them sign a big
body wide receiver, which I think a lot of fans
thought was a big need, and Nick Westbrook Akine a
great blocking titand and Pharaoh Brown, a couple of offensive linemen,
including one of the better guards in the game of
my opinion, in James Daniels, A couple of safeties and linebackers.
(10:29):
How do you think CD the Dolphins free agency, I
guess a mode of attack. How did the way they
filled out some needs and impact their potential Draft night
when it comes to pick thirteen and beyond.
Speaker 2 (10:39):
Yeah, I think they did a nice job. I really do.
In players, you were mentioning the needs, the fit was there.
Chris Career and his staff and crew, I think did
a really good job getting people who can do all
of those things. The interesting part is in free agency,
as you know Travis, for the most part, you fell needs,
(11:00):
but that doesn't necessarily mean that the need is done.
All right, So James Daniels comes in, but he's coming
off of injury, right, and you're gonna plug him in
and say he's going to be probably a starting right
guard I would guess, right, Liam Ikenberg at left guard.
So you have that. But at the same time, does
that mean that you're done. I don't think so, because
(11:21):
I think you're gonna get into other rounds because I
just don't see them going guard at thirteen. But later rounds,
who do you go and get and trying four to
five and bring people in and maybe you find your
starter for the future there. Those are the type of
things you're doing. Pharaoh Brown. Terrific blocking tight end, But
what is the quarterback's best friend ever receiving tight end,
somebody who's working the middle of the field, always in
(11:43):
the sight lines. Easy throws, easy completions, Boom boom boom boom,
sticks move. Okay, are we done? I don't think so.
There's a possibility of going out and getting and this
is a pretty good tight end group that's coming out,
So I don't think you're done on things of that nature.
Nick Westbrook, I saw him in Tennessee. I've been doing
their preseason package for a number of years now, and boy,
(12:04):
he is he produced. Every time they've asked, he has produced.
Is he ever gonna be a one? No? Is he
ever gonna be a two? Probably not, But he's a
terrific three, four, whatever you want, and he makes clutch
catches at clutch times. Travis, you remember, before he got
hurt at Indiana, we were saying this is a second
round receiver all day long, and probably maybe our aspirations
(12:26):
for him are a little bit higher. But the knee
injury of the opening game begins Ohio State and it
wasn't the same for a long time for him. I
don't know if he ever got the same burst and
everything that came from it. But he's a legit really
good pro, really good player. But does that wipe out
you what you're going to do a wide receiver. No,
that's my point, Like just about every team when you
go into free agency, it's rare that you get into
(12:48):
free agency and get the guy that you want and
now we don't have to worry about that spot anymore.
Most times you get him, but you're still building, still
thinking if I get someone else, you.
Speaker 1 (12:59):
Going yet, Just to use another example, like you're Stingley
and Sauce Gardner take it kind of reminds me of
like the Matt Flynn Russell Wilson decision in Seattle. Right,
you get the free agent quarterback, you go draft the guy,
and he winds up beating out the free agent in
training camp. So we've seen Chris Greer mention this a
few times. I think that they've they've shown you by
what their actions are that typically if they like a player,
(13:20):
you know, it doesn't matter the position, they'll go with
that player. And they do like to take their high
premium spots, which has put them in a position to
kind of be able to go shop for those specific needs.
And with that in mind, I'm so fascinated by this
thirteenth PIXID because you mentioned the tight end class. I
think Tyler Warren makes a bunch of sense in that spot.
(13:41):
We've seen the defensive tackle group maybe hasn't quite rounded
into form just yet, and there's some guys that could
be on the board at that spot. I mentioned Malachi
Starks earlier. Jaday Baron's a guy that I think would
would really fit in here nicely when you take a
look at all those guys and kind of how I
guess what might be there thinking about how picks ten
through twelve could go, what do you think the most
value might be for the Dolphins, whether it's a defensive tackle,
(14:04):
whether it's you know, a captain of the back of
the defense and Malachi Starks, whether it's a Tyler like
who do you think it could be a possible fit
there pick thirteen Beyond the guys we talked about.
Speaker 2 (14:12):
Well, I think I think for what we're talking about,
the safety I think is there and that would be
the swing when you like, we just started baseball season,
right it officially began yesterday and now we have the
series in Japan with the Giant and I mean the
Cubs and the Yankees, right, No, it's gonna be Cubs
and Dodge. Yeah, right, we have that, but officially when
(14:37):
it's all Capitals opening day, right, when we've done this.
That was on Thursday of the last week in March.
So this is a big swing. You go safety at thirteen. Right.
I'm with you because you keep mentioning Malachi Starks. So
I've already figured out without having a conversation that you
and I are sitting in the same spot that Malachi
(14:59):
Starks is being over looked because Nick m and Worry
had one of the most monster combines, plus a very
good career in South Carolina, plus a body type that
we're all just like, oh my god, this monster. I
said it during the combine. I'm old enough to remember
when all safeties kind of look like Nick m and Wary. Okay,
I'm talking David Fulter in Cincinnati. I'm talking Steve Atwater
(15:22):
in Denver. I'm talking Ronnie a Lot when he swung
back to safety in San Francisco, Tim McDonald and Arizona
in San Francisco. They were master dons that ruled the earth.
Like if you ran into Steve atwater now And I
don't know. If you have Travis, you would swear he
was an edge rusher when he played in the NFL.
He a monster. And I'm not saying and this isn't
because Steve's older and out of shape. You just go,
(15:43):
oh my god, that was a safety. So that's what
m and worry kind is kind of back to the
future for me. And I will say this, and I
know Steve and those guys get mad at me, But
Edmond Warry runs better than all of them. Okay, he's
a better athlete. We've evolved it that way. Is he
a better player? That means to be seen. But I'm
with you on Malchi Starks. I think that we got
(16:05):
to the point where we took for granted excellent play
that we were getting. We took for granted a guy
who's in the right place at the right time. We
took for granted guy who could make plays on the
football and knock down your ball carriers and your receivers
after they catch the ball. I'm a Starks guy. Okay,
it doesn't mean I don't like emin Warwick. I like
Starks a little bit better. You take him at thirteen. Well,
(16:28):
wasn't there a guy named Javon Holland that you had
is no longer there?
Speaker 1 (16:34):
Right?
Speaker 3 (16:34):
You can play yeah, and is a plug and play.
Speaker 2 (16:37):
And off you go. Let's go to the corner position
because you mentioned today Baron wonderful player, love him. Will
Johnson might still be available coming out of Michigan that time. Okay,
Benjamin Morrison from from Notre Dames a really good corner
as well. That'll be interested to see where Chris Greer
and his group if they have, what grades they have,
(16:59):
and where they might want to go with something like that. Right,
I'm gonna tell you defensive line you mentioned, how is
it going to kind of come off the board? I'm
really interested in that one as well. Because Mason Graham,
we've kind of locked in for the longest time from
Michigan is almost a top five certainty. I don't know
(17:20):
if we're right. I really don't know if we're right
on that. It has nothing to do with Mason Graham
and whether or not he's a good ballplayer. I just
wonder if the board's gonna fall differently now where Mason
Graham doesn't get top five. Now the question is is
it top ten, because once people start plucking certain guys,
maybe other people jump up ahead where other teams come
(17:41):
up and get them. And does a Mason Graham go down. Look,
if he went at thirteen, people might go, oh my god,
he's slid And I don't know if it's as much
of a slide as people think. But he'd be really
good there, wouldn't he at thirteen? But Derek Harmon from Oregon,
Kenneth Mason Graham's running mate there, Okay, Walter Nolan is
(18:04):
a polarizing figure because remember we talk about grating flashes
right and flashes there. So those are the types of
things you're getting into. I'm just talking about first round.
We can get into other guys later if we want to,
just the first round guys like that. That's kind of
where I'm going with it. But you get back to
that tight end. If Tyler Warren or Colston Loveland is
(18:25):
sitting there at thirteen, I don't know that Chris Greer
hesitates a heck of a lot. I think, you know,
Mike McDaniel might be like, get it, get it.
Speaker 1 (18:34):
Get it, Yeah, let's take it eligible why not?
Speaker 2 (18:37):
You know? And who can blame him? Absolutely? The things
we do with tight ends in the NFL nowadays and
what we're what they allow us to do offensively. And
how about some of the people whose careers have been
revived John new Smith last season. If anyone saw that coming,
please let me know, because I want to hang out
(18:57):
with you from now on and I want to I
want to soak it all in because I knew John
knew in Tennessee. I thought his best had been had
been established, like we weren't going to get back to
that potential, and it did so in the right place
the right time to rite it. Boom, this can happen.
But Warren and Loveland are pretty good, to put it mildly,
(19:18):
but the rest of that tight end class is really
good as well.
Speaker 1 (19:23):
I love the dichotomy of it and the way you
again going back to the sauce and steingly debate. It
kind of sets the whole theme for this episode up,
because I feel like a lot of these guys were
talking about have that where it's like Starks is the
is the proven you know, three year tape guy, and
Eman worries the kind of flash you know, grade the
flashes with a big workout. You talk about Warren and
Loveland couldn't be more differing as in terms of their
(19:44):
play styles. I think the whole draft is like that,
and it kind of takes you to a position of
like what flavor do you prefer? And with that in mind,
cd the spot we didn't talk about, which I'd be
missed to not bring it up here on a draft
episode of the Draft Time podcast is the offensive line.
And the Dolphins for for a long time, a lot,
well since McDaniel got here, really have been pretty good
about having guys that can play both guard and tackle,
(20:06):
and those tackles are super athletic, wind up kicking inside
the guard and being good players there. I'm curious who
you think might kind of fit that mold as a
possible early selection on the offensive line that could play
multiple spots.
Speaker 2 (20:17):
Yeah, and when I look at the Dolphins, I start
first interior offensive line because you got Armstead right, it
left Austin Jackson at right. I'm not saying that that's
just a flat out lock. You're always trying to get better,
but I feel like the interior is more of a concern.
Daniel's coming off of injury, brand new team, right, Aaron
(20:39):
Brewer always gonna no matter what's it. No matter what
you say about Aaron brow whether you and I talk
about him, when someone writes about him, Travis, tell me
if I'm wrong, it's gonna say the undersized Aaron Brewer. Yeah,
he just got to live with it, right. But he's
a battler. He's worked his way in this league. He's
been a starter in this league. You know he's dependable.
(21:00):
He's going to be there. And then Leah Mikenberg at
left guard. So if I'm thinking interior, and again, I
don't know, thirteen's the spot. But Tyler Booker from Alabama,
I realize people kind of lost their mind a little
because his combined numbers weren't quite what they were looking for,
especially on the forty, the ten things of that nature.
When we look at his numbers, they didn't. Okay, you
(21:21):
remember when Orlando Brown went to the combine because you
followed this as well as anyone. And I don't know
that he's finished his forty yet, that's right that time.
He's won multiple Super Bowl rings, he's been an All
Pro Pro Bowl left and right tackle. Sometimes you can
just play football, and Tyler Booker to me, can just
play football. But I really have been impressed. I'm gonna
(21:44):
give you some names of guys I've liked because I
again I don't know that this is thirteen, but if
I'm thinking interior offensive line, these are people that I
would keep an eye on. I think Donovan jenk Jackson
from Ohio State who was a guard and had to
kick out to left tackle right to backfill Josh Simmons,
I think he's a good player. I really think that
(22:04):
Tate Rattledge from Georgia did that nice little front somersault
to finish up the combine. Remember everybody's doing backflips and
all an offensive linemen are like, okay, we'll do a
summer So yeah, I thought that was really cool. I
think the interior Seth McLoughlin, coming out of Ohio State
formerly of Alabama, has the injury coming along and see
(22:24):
the type of guy that I can plug into the
middle and be my pivot. I really think Jared Wilson
from from Georgia, I think he's a good player. And
whatever George is doing with the Senators are doing a
really nice job because they keep sending the centers that
can play. Last year's vamprint a Granger, a Van prim
Granger etc. Who went to Buffalout doesn't have to play yet,
(22:46):
but I think he can plug in and play right away.
Down the road. Remember Clay Webb Jacksonville State, Georgia, guy
who had gone to Jacksonville State. You get hit him
on day three. He's gonna come in and be a
good player for you right away and compete and become
a starter in this league. Down the road, Why at
Miloma tackle at West Virginia who I think can kick
(23:07):
inside and play for you? You and I could go
on and on and on, and I don't want to
bore everyone that's out there. All I'm saying is there
are a ton of options. That's why I'm wondering unless
you're gonna have one of those incredible tackles fall. I
don't know if Chris Brear is going at thirteen with
the guard and I think, and to me, it's the
interior offensive line. But that's just me. You may be like, well,
(23:29):
you know what you're talking about, David, I'm gonna do
something else, and rightly, rightly, so way ahead of me.
But that's how I look at If I'm thinking about
interior offensive line.
Speaker 1 (23:37):
Yeah, I think options in the first rounds. What you want,
and then you gave us a bunch of Day two
kind of later on options that would I think certainly
satisfy the fan base here With some of those selections
you could possibly make CD.
Speaker 3 (23:48):
I have one more.
Speaker 1 (23:49):
Question for you here to kind of bring it back
full circle, and we have about three or four minutes
left from the call. Don't want to get your cut
off here, so just give you that heads up. But
we talk about guys that move across the offensive line.
Patrick Paul was a player that was drafted, you know,
left tackle exclusively at Houston. He played left tackle last
year for US a little bit of right tackle cross training,
but got some good valuable reps and could be in
line to take over that left tackle position. I'm curious
(24:10):
to get your take on his development as a second
year player. But also if there's anybody else you want
to talk about from the Dolphins twenty twenty four class,
Chop Robinson, Malik Washington, Jalen Wright had some flash in
there as well. What do you think about the Dolphins
draft class from last year and how they could take
a jump here in the second season.
Speaker 2 (24:25):
Yeah, and I think you're gonna see it happened people.
I just I just never believe that we give enough
credence to how difficult it is to make the jump,
and the ones who really screw it up are the
ones who jump well and are like rookies of the
year and play really well and become starters. And we
think that should happen for everyone. It can't, It won't.
(24:47):
It's hard Patrick Paul having a year where he didn't
have to have any pressure on him, where he got
to cross train during practice sessions. We got to go
against really good, good guys each and every week because
you know, he was doing the show team or the
scout team and all that. It serves you well. It
gives you an opportunity to improve, you know. Jalen Wright
learning this offense, learning how to fit in, earning the
(25:09):
trust of Mike McDaniel in the offensive group where he's
gonna call more plays for him. Year two is going
to be better for him. But the one I keep
coming back to Chop Robinson because I thought coming out
of Penn State, we all thought he was a terrific player.
But what was the big question mark? We had production
numbers get four and a half saxes last year at
Penn State, It's like a tradition at Penn State, right
(25:32):
a Dafeoway with Baltimore zero saxes last year at Penn State,
first round pick, Chop Robinson four and a half first
round pick, and as a fan, you're like, if he's
a great pass rusher in college, how's he only getting
four and a half sacks. It's one of the great
mysteries for me. Do you know Danielle Hunter had four
and a half sacks his entire career at LSU.
Speaker 1 (25:51):
Yeah, yea, we heard a lot about that talking about
Chopp last year, so.
Speaker 2 (25:55):
You just don't know. Well, the second half of the
year telling me I'm wrong, Chop was pretty darn good,
wasn't he. Yeah?
Speaker 3 (26:00):
Elite, I would.
Speaker 2 (26:00):
Say, elite, Right, you know where that you know who
that helps have Dual Carter. Yeah, Dual Carter's coming out
of Penn State and we're all having the questions. But
the one question you don't have to ask yourself about
a Duel Carter Penn State is production numbers, because he
actually had double digit sacks, so we know there are
proven commodity. I just think Chop Robinson, now well, we
(26:22):
won't talk about college sacks anymore. We're just gonna talk
about this guy going to Pro Bowls being an All
Pro player, because boy was he good the second half
of last year. And it just shows you making the transition,
learning things and sometimes when the time's right, it takes off.
We talk about all the time with quarterbacks, but we
never give the other positions the same grace. Then maybe
it might take a little more time.
Speaker 1 (26:43):
Yeah, that's a great point to end it on, too,
And I think a big credit to Ryan Crow and
to Anthony Weaver and Austin Clark forgetting chopping that kind
of his I guess his plan as a pro and
the developmental plan for what he was able to kind
of do and add to his play as the year
went along. Very excited to see what's on deck for
him here and your number two. You can hear him
on the call of games this season for CBS. You
can also find Charles Davis anchoring NFL Networks draft coverage
(27:06):
all week long up in Green Bay, April twenty fourth
through the twenty six CD. You're the best man right
in under the time here. We appreciate your time today
and we'll talk to you soon.
Speaker 3 (27:13):
My friend.
Speaker 2 (27:14):
Always great talking with you, and thanks again for the
time and looking forward to another great NFL season after
we get through the draft in Green Bay. How cool
is that we're an iconic Green Bay for the draft Titletown, USA.
Come on, come to Green Bay, Travis, and we'll go
and make the pilgrimage to vinceland Party's house.
Speaker 1 (27:30):
Okay, you and me, Man, you can just tell us
guylos football right, you can't hide it at CD.
Speaker 2 (27:35):
I love it.
Speaker 1 (27:35):
Man.
Speaker 3 (27:36):
We appreciate your time today. Man, thank you so much.
Speaker 2 (27:37):
Thank you.
Speaker 3 (27:38):
You take care and away he goes.
Speaker 1 (27:40):
Last break right there on the other side, my breakdown
on Texas defensive back he ploys corner end safety today Baron.
That's next Draft Time podcast, your host, Travis Wingfield, brought
to you by Automation. Texas defensive back Jday Baron a
(28:02):
very interesting study to me because this is a player
who in so many ways makes so much sense for
the Miami Dolphins, and I think the usage is both
a blessing and a curse for Jaday Baron in terms
of where he's played and how he was deployed and
how it might fit in with the Miami Dolphins defense.
Let's go ahead and first though, just talk about the
tape in general, because without looking at any coverage maps,
(28:24):
I can tell you this Texas defense varied their calls
and coverages basically on a downby down basis, and the
way that he and the safeties would communicate and pass
off was a thing of beauty. It was a very
veteran defense. They're well coached to their rules. One play
after he filled the back on a B side, a
backside B gap run and got knocked back on a
(28:45):
one on one collision with Arizona State running back Cam Scatabow,
who I suppose is kind of the teach tape when
it comes to powerbacks in this year's class. He met
him head up and got knocked back at one hundred
and eighty three pounds on a two hundred and forty
pounds back That squat or that that did a forty
inch vertical an eleven foot broad jump right, so a
(29:07):
very explosive player. He covered the one on a vertical
to the field the wide side of the field, and
what looked to me like it was quarter quarter half
cover six with only one vertical route, and he squats
on it and then motions the safety and behind him,
which that's not the safety's responsibility on that play, but
at the same time, that safety motions back to him
(29:27):
and he takes the vertical. So it told me that
they have hard and fast rules that Baron is an
expert in and can communicate to the rest of the
defensive backfield to get those places covered. And he just
plants himself on his zone to occupy a backside crossing route.
So he's taking away the most immediate, biggest play threat
and then getting to the second biggest play threat that
(29:48):
they're trying to influence based upon that route concept. And
you see this all over his tape. You hear the
way he talked about, you know, emotional maturity at the combine.
How can I be committed to the process without being
emotionally tied to the results because you are going to
get beat in this league, in this game. I think
a lot of the things we covered with Malachi Stark
supplies here. You know, he makes your defense smarter, He
(30:10):
makes players around him better because of the way he
prepares and puts himself in advantageous positions. I think the
part that makes him most attractive to the Dolphins is
the ability to align in all three positions as far
as a cornerback goes and I think he could do
even more than that, And with how the Dolphins like
to invert their corners and get them back into deep,
deep coverage halfs. In terms of like playing safety, I
(30:32):
lean towards a Brian Branch type role when he's playing
kind of that backside safety slot combination where he can
match up on tight ends and running backs, he can
come down and fit the run. He can blitz occasionally,
and I thought with his makeup, he might be a
more frequent blitzer, but Texas only blitzed him twenty times
really every year that he played there. That includes playing
(30:53):
primarily as a slot primarily as the boundary X receiver
cover guy. You know, not a lot of reps to
the field, but he played multiple roles in terms of
how he rushed, how he dropped, how he played zone,
how he played man. From that slot and from that
boundary position, member, you're gonna you hear boundary a lot,
and that's referred to as just outside cornerbacks, but that's
not the correct phrasing because boundary means the short side
(31:15):
of the field. The field is the wide side, so
plenty of reps in multiple roles, but the way he
processes and moves from his spot on zone turns, that's
what really makes him attractive to me and makes me
curious about how he might be deployed here, because this
is a team that does have a very good rush
and sim pressure package and take away the hot reed
originally try to find a way to break a free
(31:37):
runner and take away the quarterbacks first option. That's kind
of what Baron can do, I think, in the way
that Malachi Starks kind of did for the Georgia Bulldogs.
But I think he can play enough man coverage to
give you the best of both worlds for a defense
that leaned on Moore man coverage down the stretch and
probably wants to be that more in twenty twenty five
as well. I mean this guy, though, the zone drops
and the processing from those positions, whether it's the curl
(31:58):
flat which is on the out side part of the field,
the hook zone down the middle, and kind of that
Brian Branch like robber slash hook zone drop role, which
again lends itself to the concept that you can put
him in a three man cornerback group that can all
play each spot and that can allow you to vary
up your rush looks and disguise the matchups you want
to dictate from a defensive perspective, and you know that's
(32:19):
kind of a misnomer, like you can't dictate matchups on defense,
But when you have quarterbacks that can do that, that's
what it allows you to do. When you're that interchangeable,
you can kind of dictate how you match up on
the offense. His eyes are maybe the best in the class.
He was targeted twice in the first half of the
Clemson game, both pass breakups where you freeze the tape
when the quarterback's hands separate right when the ball is
(32:40):
going to be delivered and he's already moving. So he
likes to play from depth where he can assess and
cut off the route ahead of time. He did that
also in the first half of that game on a
non target on a drag route from short motion where
he is playing to the field on the number one receiver,
the widest receiver to the field, and he takes a
short motion and then turns that kind of head start
into a drag route across the field, and you see
(33:02):
Barron just stay like two yards on top of it
and run it off at the pass where the catch
point would have happened and just takes it away. And
then from a temperament and physicality and play style note,
I think he's a great tackler with a will to
put his face in the fan. He will misstackles, but
when you're tackling in space, that often your mistackle rate's
going to be a lot higher than a linebacker or
a defensive lineman. But when he needs to go fit
(33:25):
a run like the scatter boat rep, he'll do that.
He's also never bothered by his sense of his sense
of urgency, like really in any sense of the game,
but in particular the physical aspect. I'm sure you've all
seen the pick he had against Georgia where he just
squats on a route and engages the receiver as he
goes to initiate the contact, he kind of absorbs it,
takes it, shucks him off to the side, makes the pick,
and runs it back to like the five yard line.
(33:46):
So he likes to fight fire with fire when that
receiver will initiate the contact, which defenders have to be
careful about that because you can get flagged, especially at
this level, if you do that. But he's like if
the receiver initiates and the dB usually reps will keep
the flag in their pocket, and I think he's kind
of savvy in the way he does that. I think
the question for Baron coming in will be the ability
(34:07):
to play press coverage, but I don't think that's because
he can't do it. He just wasn't really asked to
do it a lot. At Texas it was almost always
off or when he was pressed up, it was inside.
As a possible blitz convert option. I think a lot
of teams will look at him as a nickel slot type,
but I do think that he can play on the
outside because of the best feel in the class, whether
it's in zone or man off coverage, and he's a
(34:28):
really good tackler. He's processed oriented. I think that McDaniel's
comments at the owners meetings about the importance of guys
who want to win and love football and how that
can translate to a culture. I think that builds towards,
you know, winning those big games late in the season.
Speaker 3 (34:42):
I think Baron fits all of those.
Speaker 1 (34:44):
So if he makes it to pick thirteen, I'll be
I think he'll be one of the best options I
have him over Starks right now in that position. But yeah,
just a really, really, really good football player, and the
two knocks are essentially out of his control lack of
real true press rep. And he'll be twenty four and
the season starts. That second one kind of a big
deal because your second contract, you played really well four
(35:06):
years in, you get that extension. You're twenty eight years old,
which is closer to that kind of that drop off
in that cliff. But like we talked about, this is
a guy that I think can play into his mid
thirties as a kind of strong safety slot nickel type.
Speaker 3 (35:18):
So big fan of Jaday Baron.
Speaker 1 (35:19):
I would have him as my top guy that we've
done these deep profile dives on Malachi Starks number two,
we'll get to Tyler Warren and Kenneth Grant, nick e
Man Worry. I want to do a whole bunch of
these before the draft and continue to build the profile
out of Day two and Day three possible prospects as well.
I watched Andrew mccouba as well as Alfred Collins on
that Texas tapes. We'll cover those guys and gets you
all kinds of draft content here as it is officially
(35:39):
April on the Drive Time Podcast. This is officially the
end of this episode of the Drift Time Podcast. You
all please be sure to subscribe, rate, review the show.
Follow me on social at Wingfold NFL. For all the
team at Miami Dolphins, check out the fish Tank Podcast
with Seth and Juice, the YouTube channel for Dolphins, HQ
media availabilities, drive time interviews, and much much more. Last,
(36:00):
but not least, Miami Dolphins dot Com. Until next time
finds up Carolina and Cameron. Daddy, He's already home because
my son has hand foot mouth. Fun times. H
What is up Dolphins and welcome to the Draft Time Podcast.
I am your host, Travis Wingfield and on today's show,
the Great Charles Davis joins us to talk all things
Dolphins off season, how to watch film, we'll talk about
that as well as the upcoming draft for your Miami Dolphins.
Plus we're breaking down another player on the draft or
i should say the options for thirteen deep dive profiles.
(00:30):
That's Jday Baron out of Texas from the Baptist Hill
Studios inside the Baptist Health Training Complex.
Speaker 2 (00:35):
This is.
Speaker 3 (00:39):
The Draft Time Podcast.
Speaker 2 (00:40):
Ye Daffy.
Speaker 1 (00:43):
And joining us here today on Dolphins HQ, and the
Draft Time Podcast is NFL Networks. Charles Davis and CD.
We do this about once a year, give or take.
It's one of my favorite interviews of the entire year.
Good to see you again, man, How you doing.
Speaker 2 (00:57):
I'm doing great? Drafts is always great to see you
and I'm always appreciative that you would welcome me into
the Dolphins family for a short time each and every
year because I'm just a guy, right, I'm just a
person who likes ball and we're all in it together.
I don't know if I've got anything really to offer,
but you're always gracious, You're always kind, and it's always
fun to have a chat with you. It's good back
(01:18):
and forth. I get to learn a lot.
Speaker 3 (01:19):
Well.
Speaker 1 (01:20):
You certainly offer plenty, and we learn a lot from you.
That's why we have you on every single year, and
I always get a kick out of seeing you around
here at training camp. Once in a while, we see
you on the coverage of the draft. You know, I
was telling one of the other producers here, one of
my favorite things about the draft coverage is the stump
the truck and you, my friend, are the best at
that game. I'm curious to explain to the fans maybe
(01:41):
what that is and why it's so much.
Speaker 3 (01:43):
Fun for you guys to have that.
Speaker 1 (01:44):
I think it's like a deep Day three part of
the show, right, it really.
Speaker 2 (01:48):
Is, Travis. You you absolutely nailed it. It's a deep
Day three. We are in rounds probably six and seven
at that point. And it's not that those young people
getting selected is not important, but you're not going pick
to pick to pick to pick to pick, right. So
the people who work on our show and prepare for
the draft, they have to have this deep database of
(02:09):
potential draftees, you know, and our truck I think gets
around one thousand somewhere in that neighborhood of people that
they have where they went to school, when they played
and as you understand Travis, I mean, every team has
people on it. Did they go? Where did he play
college football? Right? How did he get here? We have
(02:30):
people who wear gold jackets as Hall of Fame members
that were never drafted into the NFL. They may have
come from an obscure school. So we do this thing
called stunk the truck where people get to I guess nowadays, right,
you just you know, you tweet it in or blue
sky it in or whatever it is, and and you know, hey,
do you have such and such such and such player
(02:53):
from such such such such school? Okay, and them telling
you they can be the most obscure schools. But somebody
at home's like, this guy's a player, do you have him?
But what we do ourselves that we have people do
the questions and then we do it ourselves because we've
done our research and we've done our stuff, and we'll
ask the truck do you have Travis Wingfield from you know,
(03:18):
Saint Albans Prep, A D three and wherever wherever are,
you know, that sort of a thing, and they go
through their database and more times than not fit and
not only do they have the player, there's a highlight
of the player. Yeah, and that's just always a lot
of fun because we get to illuminate some places and
you know, like we got this young man this year
(03:39):
that's not going to make stump the truck is too easy.
But the tank who plays offensive line, it's out of Middlebury,
Like what Middlebury College? A D three guy? Well, of
course we had Ali Marpett come out of Hobart a
few years ago became a Pro Bowl player. Maybe we'll
have the same thing, you know, Thomas Perry, I believe
(04:00):
the young man's name.
Speaker 1 (04:01):
Yeah, it happens every I mean Quinn Minor. It's right,
all pro from a Wisconsin whitewater. Like it happens every
single year. It's so good and I love seeing the
way you guys get all fired up because like you
can almost tell, like that third day of draft coverage
for everybody across the league, the fatigue starts to set in,
but that kind of gets you that final push there
over the hump to finish the day and finish the
draft process. Let's go ahead and get into the football
(04:21):
stuff here, Charles and I want to I have two
leadoff questions that I wrote down. I'll go ahead and
start with this one first, and it's it's not Dolphins
related yet. We'll get there eventually, I promise. But I
have a question about just watching tape because this is
something that I struggle with as something of a I
guess i'll call myself a tape dog myself as well.
And maybe this is twofold, but we see all kinds
of players have pretty big swings in terms of their
(04:43):
performance from year to year. It's why this league is
just so tough to predict every single season. You know,
guys can struggle then become all pros or vice versa.
My question is when you have a collection of tape,
and this you know applies for multi year stars in
college too, But how do you weigh like the impressive
nature of the good tape maybe for one year was
really good, maybe another year was kind of a down year.
(05:06):
Like how do you balance the good reps versus the
bad reps, whether it's a college prospect a pro from
year to year. Like that's a roadblock I have in
my own film study. I'm curious to get an expert's
opinion on that, Travis.
Speaker 2 (05:17):
Is a great question, and I think you hit on
something that I would dare say the vast majority of
us ponder and wonder ourselves. You and I can't speak
for anyone else in this business and how they watch tape, right,
we don't know that, but my suspicion is, having watched
it for a long time, you've done the same thing
when you talk with other people, I'm guessing you're not
(05:39):
the only one to see kind of asking this question.
And when I've gotten and I don't know if I'm
going to call it a consensus, but people I really
respect who are great at doing this Scout, GMS, right assistant,
gas personnel, people, coaches, all that. There's an expression that
I've learned in the last few years called grading the
flat and the flashes, meaning the really good plays that
(06:04):
you were talking about, right, the really good stretches that
you saw on tape. CJ. Stroud. I'm going to use
an example. Quarterback at Ohio State before he went to
the Houston texts a member of him and Bryce Young
his year, Right, who do you like? Who do you like?
Who do you like, there was all that discussion about CJ. Stroud.
We didn't see him run the ball ahead of a lot, right, didn'
(06:25):
see him break out of the pocket and run it
was there consistency in certain things he did, et cetera,
et cetera. And then, as you know, Dravis, then we
had the Georgia game in the College Football Playoff and CJ.
Stroud was incredible that night, right, And that became kind
of the mantra around the league for people who were
thinking about, Okay, can I move up and get him?
(06:46):
Do I want him whatever? We've seen him do it. Now,
if it's on tape and you've seen him do it,
that means he can do it again. And now you
have to go into your organization. You're head coach, who's
going to coim what kind of training you're going to provide,
what's your environment? So, as you know, Travis, sometimes we
have if I take it out of CJ. Strod and
(07:08):
I go to a person who we saw have great
promise and fell off, can we get back to that
great promise? Do I have an organization and a coach
that I think can get there? And I'll give you
a quick example, Derek Stingley junior. Derek Stingley, remember he
was the consensus guy from his freshman year at LSU,
(07:30):
but he had injuries, didn't play as much last couple
of years in school, and then came Sauce gardener. So
now we got a whole different conversation because Sauce was
really consistent and kept getting better at Cincinnati. Who do
you like better? Well, if you grated the Flashes, it's
hard to get stinkly out of your head. But if
(07:50):
you're watching the last two years in school, Sauce was
clearly the one who was ascending and playing well. You
remember how the draft rolled out. By the time we
got to the draft, Travis Sauce was ahead on most
people's scorecards, but Derek Stingley got picked before Sauce, one
pick before Sauce because Houston had graded the Flashes felt
(08:11):
they had the right people there, and Sauce started out
the first two years was an all Pro as you
remember rookie. The whole thing Derek Stingley had injury issues,
wasn't as consistent. Starting twenty twenty three, Derek Stalely came
off of an injury and has played at a level
and kept descending where he was an All Pro last year,
(08:33):
Sauce's team wasn't as good was you know, things weren't
quite as great for him. He's still a great player
and going to be again. But now Stingley's good hit
the All Pro status that Sauce has hit prior. So
it's all a matter of you know, what do you
believe you can get If you've seen it before, you
feel like you can get it again? And do we
(08:53):
have the people to bring it out of them? And
is it in that young man to bring it out
of himself again? So that's where that homework comes in.
And Travis, we all do so much homework, right We
all work at it, and no one works at it
more than the coaches, the scouts, the people thirty two
NFL teams and they're lucky if they hit fifty. And
(09:14):
they work at it like man, it is a very
tough thing to do. And sometimes I keep having to
remind myself and I want to call our brethren sometime
and say, hey, you do know just how tough this is? Right,
Like we get on these people like mad, how'd you
miss here? Cause you and I both know using Sauce
(09:34):
in Derek Stingley. You know the Houston people call you
know what during sauces first two years. Yes, absolutely right,
I think has worked out pretty well.
Speaker 3 (09:44):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (09:45):
I love that comparison because it reminds me of a
different player that we'll talk about. Come back and maybe
put a pin in that, because I do want to
get back to Malachi Starks, who I feel kind of
got that like good tape fatigue where it's like he
was such a good player that we kind of forgot
about him and maybe the draft consents around him became
a little bit, you know, pulled down because of that.
But let's come back to that, CD, because I want
to go back to the Dolphins here and get into
(10:06):
the official Dolphins draft conversation here and kick it off
with talking about free agency and how that might impact
their draft thinking. Because we saw them sign a big
body wide receiver, which I think a lot of fans
thought was a big need, and Nick Westbrook Akine a
great blocking titand and Pharaoh Brown, a couple of offensive linemen,
including one of the better guards in the game of
my opinion, in James Daniels, A couple of safeties and linebackers.
(10:29):
How do you think CD the Dolphins free agency, I
guess a mode of attack. How did the way they
filled out some needs and impact their potential Draft night
when it comes to pick thirteen and beyond.
Speaker 2 (10:39):
Yeah, I think they did a nice job. I really do.
In players, you were mentioning the needs, the fit was there.
Chris Career and his staff and crew, I think did
a really good job getting people who can do all
of those things. The interesting part is in free agency,
as you know Travis, for the most part, you fell needs,
(11:00):
but that doesn't necessarily mean that the need is done.
All right, So James Daniels comes in, but he's coming
off of injury, right, and you're gonna plug him in
and say he's going to be probably a starting right
guard I would guess, right, Liam Ikenberg at left guard.
So you have that. But at the same time, does
that mean that you're done. I don't think so, because
(11:21):
I think you're gonna get into other rounds because I
just don't see them going guard at thirteen. But later rounds,
who do you go and get and trying four to
five and bring people in and maybe you find your
starter for the future there. Those are the type of
things you're doing. Pharaoh Brown. Terrific blocking tight end, But
what is the quarterback's best friend ever receiving tight end,
somebody who's working the middle of the field, always in
(11:43):
the sight lines. Easy throws, easy completions, Boom boom boom boom,
sticks move. Okay, are we done? I don't think so.
There's a possibility of going out and getting and this
is a pretty good tight end group that's coming out,
So I don't think you're done on things of that nature.
Nick Westbrook, I saw him in Tennessee. I've been doing
their preseason package for a number of years now, and boy,
(12:04):
he is he produced. Every time they've asked, he has produced.
Is he ever gonna be a one? No? Is he
ever gonna be a two? Probably not, But he's a
terrific three, four, whatever you want, and he makes clutch
catches at clutch times. Travis, you remember, before he got
hurt at Indiana, we were saying this is a second
round receiver all day long, and probably maybe our aspirations
(12:26):
for him are a little bit higher. But the knee
injury of the opening game begins Ohio State and it
wasn't the same for a long time for him. I
don't know if he ever got the same burst and
everything that came from it. But he's a legit really
good pro, really good player. But does that wipe out
you what you're going to do a wide receiver. No,
that's my point, Like just about every team when you
go into free agency, it's rare that you get into
(12:48):
free agency and get the guy that you want and
now we don't have to worry about that spot anymore.
Most times you get him, but you're still building, still
thinking if I get someone else, you.
Speaker 1 (12:59):
Going yet, Just to use another example, like you're Stingley
and Sauce Gardner take it kind of reminds me of
like the Matt Flynn Russell Wilson decision in Seattle. Right,
you get the free agent quarterback, you go draft the guy,
and he winds up beating out the free agent in
training camp. So we've seen Chris Greer mention this a
few times. I think that they've they've shown you by
what their actions are that typically if they like a player,
(13:20):
you know, it doesn't matter the position, they'll go with
that player. And they do like to take their high
premium spots, which has put them in a position to
kind of be able to go shop for those specific needs.
And with that in mind, I'm so fascinated by this
thirteenth PIXID because you mentioned the tight end class. I
think Tyler Warren makes a bunch of sense in that spot.
(13:41):
We've seen the defensive tackle group maybe hasn't quite rounded
into form just yet, and there's some guys that could
be on the board at that spot. I mentioned Malachi
Starks earlier. Jaday Baron's a guy that I think would
would really fit in here nicely when you take a
look at all those guys and kind of how I
guess what might be there thinking about how picks ten
through twelve could go, what do you think the most
value might be for the Dolphins, whether it's a defensive tackle,
(14:04):
whether it's you know, a captain of the back of
the defense and Malachi Starks, whether it's a Tyler like
who do you think it could be a possible fit
there pick thirteen Beyond the guys we talked about.
Speaker 2 (14:12):
Well, I think I think for what we're talking about,
the safety I think is there and that would be
the swing when you like, we just started baseball season,
right it officially began yesterday and now we have the
series in Japan with the Giant and I mean the
Cubs and the Yankees, right, No, it's gonna be Cubs
and Dodge. Yeah, right, we have that, but officially when
(14:37):
it's all Capitals opening day, right, when we've done this.
That was on Thursday of the last week in March.
So this is a big swing. You go safety at thirteen. Right.
I'm with you because you keep mentioning Malachi Starks. So
I've already figured out without having a conversation that you
and I are sitting in the same spot that Malachi
(14:59):
Starks is being over looked because Nick m and Worry
had one of the most monster combines, plus a very
good career in South Carolina, plus a body type that
we're all just like, oh my god, this monster. I
said it during the combine. I'm old enough to remember
when all safeties kind of look like Nick m and Wary. Okay,
I'm talking David Fulter in Cincinnati. I'm talking Steve Atwater
(15:22):
in Denver. I'm talking Ronnie a Lot when he swung
back to safety in San Francisco, Tim McDonald and Arizona
in San Francisco. They were master dons that ruled the earth.
Like if you ran into Steve atwater now And I
don't know. If you have Travis, you would swear he
was an edge rusher when he played in the NFL.
He a monster. And I'm not saying and this isn't
because Steve's older and out of shape. You just go,
(15:43):
oh my god, that was a safety. So that's what
m and worry kind is kind of back to the
future for me. And I will say this, and I
know Steve and those guys get mad at me, But
Edmond Warry runs better than all of them. Okay, he's
a better athlete. We've evolved it that way. Is he
a better player? That means to be seen. But I'm
with you on Malchi Starks. I think that we got
(16:05):
to the point where we took for granted excellent play
that we were getting. We took for granted a guy
who's in the right place at the right time. We
took for granted guy who could make plays on the
football and knock down your ball carriers and your receivers
after they catch the ball. I'm a Starks guy. Okay,
it doesn't mean I don't like emin Warwick. I like
Starks a little bit better. You take him at thirteen. Well,
(16:28):
wasn't there a guy named Javon Holland that you had
is no longer there?
Speaker 1 (16:34):
Right?
Speaker 3 (16:34):
You can play yeah, and is a plug and play.
Speaker 2 (16:37):
And off you go. Let's go to the corner position
because you mentioned today Baron wonderful player, love him. Will
Johnson might still be available coming out of Michigan that time. Okay,
Benjamin Morrison from from Notre Dames a really good corner
as well. That'll be interested to see where Chris Greer
and his group if they have, what grades they have,
(16:59):
and where they might want to go with something like that. Right,
I'm gonna tell you defensive line you mentioned, how is
it going to kind of come off the board? I'm
really interested in that one as well. Because Mason Graham,
we've kind of locked in for the longest time from
Michigan is almost a top five certainty. I don't know
(17:20):
if we're right. I really don't know if we're right
on that. It has nothing to do with Mason Graham
and whether or not he's a good ballplayer. I just
wonder if the board's gonna fall differently now where Mason
Graham doesn't get top five. Now the question is is
it top ten, because once people start plucking certain guys,
maybe other people jump up ahead where other teams come
(17:41):
up and get them. And does a Mason Graham go down. Look,
if he went at thirteen, people might go, oh my god,
he's slid And I don't know if it's as much
of a slide as people think. But he'd be really
good there, wouldn't he at thirteen? But Derek Harmon from Oregon,
Kenneth Mason Graham's running mate there, Okay, Walter Nolan is
(18:04):
a polarizing figure because remember we talk about grating flashes
right and flashes there. So those are the types of
things you're getting into. I'm just talking about first round.
We can get into other guys later if we want to,
just the first round guys like that. That's kind of
where I'm going with it. But you get back to
that tight end. If Tyler Warren or Colston Loveland is
(18:25):
sitting there at thirteen, I don't know that Chris Greer
hesitates a heck of a lot. I think, you know,
Mike McDaniel might be like, get it, get it.
Speaker 1 (18:34):
Get it, Yeah, let's take it eligible why not?
Speaker 2 (18:37):
You know? And who can blame him? Absolutely? The things
we do with tight ends in the NFL nowadays and
what we're what they allow us to do offensively. And
how about some of the people whose careers have been
revived John new Smith last season. If anyone saw that coming,
please let me know, because I want to hang out
(18:57):
with you from now on and I want to I
want to soak it all in because I knew John
knew in Tennessee. I thought his best had been had
been established, like we weren't going to get back to
that potential, and it did so in the right place
the right time to rite it. Boom, this can happen.
But Warren and Loveland are pretty good, to put it mildly,
(19:18):
but the rest of that tight end class is really
good as well.
Speaker 1 (19:23):
I love the dichotomy of it and the way you
again going back to the sauce and steingly debate. It
kind of sets the whole theme for this episode up,
because I feel like a lot of these guys were
talking about have that where it's like Starks is the
is the proven you know, three year tape guy, and
Eman worries the kind of flash you know, grade the
flashes with a big workout. You talk about Warren and
Loveland couldn't be more differing as in terms of their
(19:44):
play styles. I think the whole draft is like that,
and it kind of takes you to a position of
like what flavor do you prefer? And with that in mind,
cd the spot we didn't talk about, which I'd be
missed to not bring it up here on a draft
episode of the Draft Time podcast is the offensive line.
And the Dolphins for for a long time, a lot,
well since McDaniel got here, really have been pretty good
about having guys that can play both guard and tackle,
(20:06):
and those tackles are super athletic, wind up kicking inside
the guard and being good players there. I'm curious who
you think might kind of fit that mold as a
possible early selection on the offensive line that could play
multiple spots.
Speaker 2 (20:17):
Yeah, and when I look at the Dolphins, I start
first interior offensive line because you got Armstead right, it
left Austin Jackson at right. I'm not saying that that's
just a flat out lock. You're always trying to get better,
but I feel like the interior is more of a concern.
Daniel's coming off of injury, brand new team, right, Aaron
(20:39):
Brewer always gonna no matter what's it. No matter what
you say about Aaron brow whether you and I talk
about him, when someone writes about him, Travis, tell me
if I'm wrong, it's gonna say the undersized Aaron Brewer. Yeah,
he just got to live with it, right. But he's
a battler. He's worked his way in this league. He's
been a starter in this league. You know he's dependable.
(21:00):
He's going to be there. And then Leah Mikenberg at
left guard. So if I'm thinking interior, and again, I
don't know, thirteen's the spot. But Tyler Booker from Alabama,
I realize people kind of lost their mind a little
because his combined numbers weren't quite what they were looking for,
especially on the forty, the ten things of that nature.
When we look at his numbers, they didn't. Okay, you
(21:21):
remember when Orlando Brown went to the combine because you
followed this as well as anyone. And I don't know
that he's finished his forty yet, that's right that time.
He's won multiple Super Bowl rings, he's been an All
Pro Pro Bowl left and right tackle. Sometimes you can
just play football, and Tyler Booker to me, can just
play football. But I really have been impressed. I'm gonna
(21:44):
give you some names of guys I've liked because I
again I don't know that this is thirteen, but if
I'm thinking interior offensive line, these are people that I
would keep an eye on. I think Donovan jenk Jackson
from Ohio State who was a guard and had to
kick out to left tackle right to backfill Josh Simmons,
I think he's a good player. I really think that
(22:04):
Tate Rattledge from Georgia did that nice little front somersault
to finish up the combine. Remember everybody's doing backflips and
all an offensive linemen are like, okay, we'll do a
summer So yeah, I thought that was really cool. I
think the interior Seth McLoughlin, coming out of Ohio State
formerly of Alabama, has the injury coming along and see
(22:24):
the type of guy that I can plug into the
middle and be my pivot. I really think Jared Wilson
from from Georgia, I think he's a good player. And
whatever George is doing with the Senators are doing a
really nice job because they keep sending the centers that
can play. Last year's vamprint a Granger, a Van prim
Granger etc. Who went to Buffalout doesn't have to play yet,
(22:46):
but I think he can plug in and play right away.
Down the road. Remember Clay Webb Jacksonville State, Georgia, guy
who had gone to Jacksonville State. You get hit him
on day three. He's gonna come in and be a
good player for you right away and compete and become
a starter in this league. Down the road, Why at
Miloma tackle at West Virginia who I think can kick
(23:07):
inside and play for you? You and I could go
on and on and on, and I don't want to
bore everyone that's out there. All I'm saying is there
are a ton of options. That's why I'm wondering unless
you're gonna have one of those incredible tackles fall. I
don't know if Chris Brear is going at thirteen with
the guard and I think, and to me, it's the
interior offensive line. But that's just me. You may be like, well,
(23:29):
you know what you're talking about, David, I'm gonna do
something else, and rightly, rightly, so way ahead of me.
But that's how I look at If I'm thinking about
interior offensive line.
Speaker 1 (23:37):
Yeah, I think options in the first rounds. What you want,
and then you gave us a bunch of Day two
kind of later on options that would I think certainly
satisfy the fan base here With some of those selections
you could possibly make CD.
Speaker 3 (23:48):
I have one more.
Speaker 1 (23:49):
Question for you here to kind of bring it back
full circle, and we have about three or four minutes
left from the call. Don't want to get your cut
off here, so just give you that heads up. But
we talk about guys that move across the offensive line.
Patrick Paul was a player that was drafted, you know,
left tackle exclusively at Houston. He played left tackle last
year for US a little bit of right tackle cross training,
but got some good valuable reps and could be in
line to take over that left tackle position. I'm curious
(24:10):
to get your take on his development as a second
year player. But also if there's anybody else you want
to talk about from the Dolphins twenty twenty four class,
Chop Robinson, Malik Washington, Jalen Wright had some flash in
there as well. What do you think about the Dolphins
draft class from last year and how they could take
a jump here in the second season.
Speaker 2 (24:25):
Yeah, and I think you're gonna see it happened people.
I just I just never believe that we give enough
credence to how difficult it is to make the jump,
and the ones who really screw it up are the
ones who jump well and are like rookies of the
year and play really well and become starters. And we
think that should happen for everyone. It can't, It won't.
(24:47):
It's hard Patrick Paul having a year where he didn't
have to have any pressure on him, where he got
to cross train during practice sessions. We got to go
against really good, good guys each and every week because
you know, he was doing the show team or the
scout team and all that. It serves you well. It
gives you an opportunity to improve, you know. Jalen Wright
learning this offense, learning how to fit in, earning the
(25:09):
trust of Mike McDaniel in the offensive group where he's
gonna call more plays for him. Year two is going
to be better for him. But the one I keep
coming back to Chop Robinson because I thought coming out
of Penn State, we all thought he was a terrific player.
But what was the big question mark? We had production
numbers get four and a half saxes last year at
Penn State, It's like a tradition at Penn State, right
(25:32):
a Dafeoway with Baltimore zero saxes last year at Penn State,
first round pick, Chop Robinson four and a half first
round pick, and as a fan, you're like, if he's
a great pass rusher in college, how's he only getting
four and a half sacks. It's one of the great
mysteries for me. Do you know Danielle Hunter had four
and a half sacks his entire career at LSU.
Speaker 1 (25:51):
Yeah, yea, we heard a lot about that talking about
Chopp last year, so.
Speaker 2 (25:55):
You just don't know. Well, the second half of the
year telling me I'm wrong, Chop was pretty darn good,
wasn't he. Yeah?
Speaker 3 (26:00):
Elite, I would.
Speaker 2 (26:00):
Say, elite, Right, you know where that you know who
that helps have Dual Carter. Yeah, Dual Carter's coming out
of Penn State and we're all having the questions. But
the one question you don't have to ask yourself about
a Duel Carter Penn State is production numbers, because he
actually had double digit sacks, so we know there are
proven commodity. I just think Chop Robinson, now well, we
(26:22):
won't talk about college sacks anymore. We're just gonna talk
about this guy going to Pro Bowls being an All
Pro player, because boy was he good the second half
of last year. And it just shows you making the transition,
learning things and sometimes when the time's right, it takes off.
We talk about all the time with quarterbacks, but we
never give the other positions the same grace. Then maybe
it might take a little more time.
Speaker 1 (26:43):
Yeah, that's a great point to end it on, too,
And I think a big credit to Ryan Crow and
to Anthony Weaver and Austin Clark forgetting chopping that kind
of his I guess his plan as a pro and
the developmental plan for what he was able to kind
of do and add to his play as the year
went along. Very excited to see what's on deck for
him here and your number two. You can hear him
on the call of games this season for CBS. You
can also find Charles Davis anchoring NFL Networks draft coverage
(27:06):
all week long up in Green Bay, April twenty fourth
through the twenty six CD. You're the best man right
in under the time here. We appreciate your time today
and we'll talk to you soon.
Speaker 3 (27:13):
My friend.
Speaker 2 (27:14):
Always great talking with you, and thanks again for the
time and looking forward to another great NFL season after
we get through the draft in Green Bay. How cool
is that we're an iconic Green Bay for the draft Titletown, USA.
Come on, come to Green Bay, Travis, and we'll go
and make the pilgrimage to vinceland Party's house.
Speaker 1 (27:30):
Okay, you and me, Man, you can just tell us
guylos football right, you can't hide it at CD.
Speaker 2 (27:35):
I love it.
Speaker 1 (27:35):
Man.
Speaker 3 (27:36):
We appreciate your time today. Man, thank you so much.
Speaker 2 (27:37):
Thank you.
Speaker 3 (27:38):
You take care and away he goes.
Speaker 1 (27:40):
Last break right there on the other side, my breakdown
on Texas defensive back he ploys corner end safety today Baron.
That's next Draft Time podcast, your host, Travis Wingfield, brought
to you by Automation. Texas defensive back Jday Baron a
(28:02):
very interesting study to me because this is a player
who in so many ways makes so much sense for
the Miami Dolphins, and I think the usage is both
a blessing and a curse for Jaday Baron in terms
of where he's played and how he was deployed and
how it might fit in with the Miami Dolphins defense.
Let's go ahead and first though, just talk about the
tape in general, because without looking at any coverage maps,
(28:24):
I can tell you this Texas defense varied their calls
and coverages basically on a downby down basis, and the
way that he and the safeties would communicate and pass
off was a thing of beauty. It was a very
veteran defense. They're well coached to their rules. One play
after he filled the back on a B side, a
backside B gap run and got knocked back on a
(28:45):
one on one collision with Arizona State running back Cam Scatabow,
who I suppose is kind of the teach tape when
it comes to powerbacks in this year's class. He met
him head up and got knocked back at one hundred
and eighty three pounds on a two hundred and forty
pounds back That squat or that that did a forty
inch vertical an eleven foot broad jump right, so a
(29:07):
very explosive player. He covered the one on a vertical
to the field the wide side of the field, and
what looked to me like it was quarter quarter half
cover six with only one vertical route, and he squats
on it and then motions the safety and behind him,
which that's not the safety's responsibility on that play, but
at the same time, that safety motions back to him
(29:27):
and he takes the vertical. So it told me that
they have hard and fast rules that Baron is an
expert in and can communicate to the rest of the
defensive backfield to get those places covered. And he just
plants himself on his zone to occupy a backside crossing route.
So he's taking away the most immediate, biggest play threat
and then getting to the second biggest play threat that
(29:48):
they're trying to influence based upon that route concept. And
you see this all over his tape. You hear the
way he talked about, you know, emotional maturity at the combine.
How can I be committed to the process without being
emotionally tied to the results because you are going to
get beat in this league, in this game. I think
a lot of the things we covered with Malachi Stark
supplies here. You know, he makes your defense smarter, He
(30:10):
makes players around him better because of the way he
prepares and puts himself in advantageous positions. I think the
part that makes him most attractive to the Dolphins is
the ability to align in all three positions as far
as a cornerback goes and I think he could do
even more than that, And with how the Dolphins like
to invert their corners and get them back into deep,
deep coverage halfs. In terms of like playing safety, I
(30:32):
lean towards a Brian Branch type role when he's playing
kind of that backside safety slot combination where he can
match up on tight ends and running backs, he can
come down and fit the run. He can blitz occasionally,
and I thought with his makeup, he might be a
more frequent blitzer, but Texas only blitzed him twenty times
really every year that he played there. That includes playing
(30:53):
primarily as a slot primarily as the boundary X receiver
cover guy. You know, not a lot of reps to
the field, but he played multiple roles in terms of
how he rushed, how he dropped, how he played zone,
how he played man. From that slot and from that
boundary position, member, you're gonna you hear boundary a lot,
and that's referred to as just outside cornerbacks, but that's
not the correct phrasing because boundary means the short side
(31:15):
of the field. The field is the wide side, so
plenty of reps in multiple roles, but the way he
processes and moves from his spot on zone turns, that's
what really makes him attractive to me and makes me
curious about how he might be deployed here, because this
is a team that does have a very good rush
and sim pressure package and take away the hot reed
originally try to find a way to break a free
(31:37):
runner and take away the quarterbacks first option. That's kind
of what Baron can do, I think, in the way
that Malachi Starks kind of did for the Georgia Bulldogs.
But I think he can play enough man coverage to
give you the best of both worlds for a defense
that leaned on Moore man coverage down the stretch and
probably wants to be that more in twenty twenty five
as well. I mean this guy, though, the zone drops
and the processing from those positions, whether it's the curl
(31:58):
flat which is on the out side part of the field,
the hook zone down the middle, and kind of that
Brian Branch like robber slash hook zone drop role, which
again lends itself to the concept that you can put
him in a three man cornerback group that can all
play each spot and that can allow you to vary
up your rush looks and disguise the matchups you want
to dictate from a defensive perspective, and you know that's
(32:19):
kind of a misnomer, like you can't dictate matchups on defense,
But when you have quarterbacks that can do that, that's
what it allows you to do. When you're that interchangeable,
you can kind of dictate how you match up on
the offense. His eyes are maybe the best in the class.
He was targeted twice in the first half of the
Clemson game, both pass breakups where you freeze the tape
when the quarterback's hands separate right when the ball is
(32:40):
going to be delivered and he's already moving. So he
likes to play from depth where he can assess and
cut off the route ahead of time. He did that
also in the first half of that game on a
non target on a drag route from short motion where
he is playing to the field on the number one receiver,
the widest receiver to the field, and he takes a
short motion and then turns that kind of head start
into a drag route across the field, and you see
(33:02):
Barron just stay like two yards on top of it
and run it off at the pass where the catch
point would have happened and just takes it away. And
then from a temperament and physicality and play style note,
I think he's a great tackler with a will to
put his face in the fan. He will misstackles, but
when you're tackling in space, that often your mistackle rate's
going to be a lot higher than a linebacker or
a defensive lineman. But when he needs to go fit
(33:25):
a run like the scatter boat rep, he'll do that.
He's also never bothered by his sense of his sense
of urgency, like really in any sense of the game,
but in particular the physical aspect. I'm sure you've all
seen the pick he had against Georgia where he just
squats on a route and engages the receiver as he
goes to initiate the contact, he kind of absorbs it,
takes it, shucks him off to the side, makes the pick,
and runs it back to like the five yard line.
(33:46):
So he likes to fight fire with fire when that
receiver will initiate the contact, which defenders have to be
careful about that because you can get flagged, especially at
this level, if you do that. But he's like if
the receiver initiates and the dB usually reps will keep
the flag in their pocket, and I think he's kind
of savvy in the way he does that. I think
the question for Baron coming in will be the ability
(34:07):
to play press coverage, but I don't think that's because
he can't do it. He just wasn't really asked to
do it a lot. At Texas it was almost always
off or when he was pressed up, it was inside.
As a possible blitz convert option. I think a lot
of teams will look at him as a nickel slot type,
but I do think that he can play on the
outside because of the best feel in the class, whether
it's in zone or man off coverage, and he's a
(34:28):
really good tackler. He's processed oriented. I think that McDaniel's
comments at the owners meetings about the importance of guys
who want to win and love football and how that
can translate to a culture. I think that builds towards,
you know, winning those big games late in the season.
Speaker 3 (34:42):
I think Baron fits all of those.
Speaker 1 (34:44):
So if he makes it to pick thirteen, I'll be
I think he'll be one of the best options I
have him over Starks right now in that position. But yeah,
just a really, really, really good football player, and the
two knocks are essentially out of his control lack of
real true press rep. And he'll be twenty four and
the season starts. That second one kind of a big
deal because your second contract, you played really well four
(35:06):
years in, you get that extension. You're twenty eight years old,
which is closer to that kind of that drop off
in that cliff. But like we talked about, this is
a guy that I think can play into his mid
thirties as a kind of strong safety slot nickel type.
Speaker 3 (35:18):
So big fan of Jaday Baron.
Speaker 1 (35:19):
I would have him as my top guy that we've
done these deep profile dives on Malachi Starks number two,
we'll get to Tyler Warren and Kenneth Grant, nick e
Man Worry. I want to do a whole bunch of
these before the draft and continue to build the profile
out of Day two and Day three possible prospects as well.
I watched Andrew mccouba as well as Alfred Collins on
that Texas tapes. We'll cover those guys and gets you
all kinds of draft content here as it is officially
(35:39):
April on the Drive Time Podcast. This is officially the
end of this episode of the Drift Time Podcast. You
all please be sure to subscribe, rate, review the show.
Follow me on social at Wingfold NFL. For all the
team at Miami Dolphins, check out the fish Tank Podcast
with Seth and Juice, the YouTube channel for Dolphins, HQ
media availabilities, drive time interviews, and much much more. Last,
(36:00):
but not least, Miami Dolphins dot Com. Until next time
finds up Carolina and Cameron. Daddy, He's already home because
my son has hand foot mouth. Fun times. H
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