Giants Huddle | Beat Reporter Mock Draft

On this episode of the Giants Huddle podcast, John Schmeelk is joined by Tom Thayer, Bram Weinstein, Mike Giardi, Darren Urban, Daniel Popper, and Tom Rock, to perform a mock draft of the top 6 picks in the 2024 NFL Draft.

:00 - Bears pick

7:54 - Commanders pick

21:14 - Patriots pick

32:23 - Cardinals pick

44:27 - Chargers pick 

1:01:05 - Giants pick

See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:00):
It's time to get inside the Giants. Hunt's Giants, My
giantsble give me some jump. Part of the Giants Podcast Network.

Speaker 2 (00:09):
Let's role.

Speaker 1 (00:10):
Welcome to another edition of the Giants Little Podcast, brought
to you by Citizens the official bank of the Giants.
I am John Schmelk. It is our yearly reporter's mock draft.
And to lead us off are the Chicago Bears. So
I think one overall, then again a ninth overall. We'll
get Tom Thayer, who is the radio analyst for the Bears,
take on that selection as well. But Tom, the Bears

(00:32):
are picking first in the best possible way. You didn't
have to suffer through some type of brutal one in
sixteen season to get here, but you managed to get
the Panthers picking the tray last year though. Bears is
sitting pretty right now.

Speaker 2 (00:46):
Man.

Speaker 3 (00:47):
Yeah, but John, you know in the NFL nowadays, a
seven win season is equally as bad as a one
win season, and that's what we suffered through.

Speaker 4 (00:53):
And that's after a three win season the year before.

Speaker 3 (00:57):
So the Bears have put themselves in an interesting position
by getting Carolina's pick and having number one overall and
probably having a year when the most important position possible
in the NFL is a valuable then you have to
take all three into consideration, or you know, I guess
the three that at the top.

Speaker 4 (01:16):
And I think it's hard to overlook Caleb Williams.

Speaker 3 (01:19):
And when you get the outside comparison of him to
Patrick Mahomes or even his own comparison to Aaron Rodgers,
I don't think you can afford to pass them up.
And I think by saying afford to pass them up
because of Justin Fields getting onto a second contract, I
don't think you could afford to pay him what a
second contract to the quarterback position deserves in the NFL nowadays.

(01:42):
So I think you get to reset that financial clock,
pick Caleb Williams and move forward with the other pieces
in place that Ryan Poles is brought to this team
through free agency.

Speaker 1 (01:54):
Do you think the other quarterbacks in the mixiere were
even close to Caleb? Do you think this was a
we finished watching the tape in January and we're pretty
darn shore now before even meeting with the guys doing
all the other extraneous postseason stuff. Do you think just
thought the tape that they knew Caleb was the guy.

Speaker 3 (02:14):
I don't think at the end of the season they
thought it was a foregone conclusion that there's Caleb Williams
or no looking back. I don't think if you did
your due diligence investigative work with a guy like Jayden
Daniels or even what Drake May offers you, it would
kind of be kind of naive in the approach to
the importance of the position. However, when you look at

(02:34):
a guy that hasn't thrown an interception on third and
fourth down, if you look at what he's able to
accomplish as a junior with a solid supporting cast and
winning the Heisman Trophy, I think he's an interesting caliber
player that if you're a GM and you take him
and he has success, then you got a job extension.

(02:54):
If you take him and he's not successful, you may
lose your job, and so you got yourself in a
pecurious position. But I really respect what Ryan Poles does
in his investigative work that he does for behind the
scenes type of looks that you have to do and
a position of this importance.

Speaker 4 (03:13):
So I think it's Caleb Williams all the way. You
know on Thursday the twenty.

Speaker 1 (03:19):
Fifth, does this make it. And this is kind of
an aside question just popped in my head. I know
the Bears are working on on trying to get a
new stadium with the dome, bringing a guy like Caleb Williams,
is getting that dome on that building to become even
more of a priority for you guys, You.

Speaker 4 (03:35):
Know, yes, no, But I think it's more.

Speaker 3 (03:36):
Kevin Warren the new president of the Chicago Bears, and
he had first hand experience of bringing in the stadium,
the new stadium they built in Minnesota, and he understands
what an asset like that means to the city itself,
to the team, to what you can bring into the
city on a year round a basis in terms of

(03:57):
the Super Bowl, Big Ten, Championship Game, Final.

Speaker 4 (03:59):
Four concerts in their time.

Speaker 3 (04:02):
You know, they have fifteen thousand hotel rooms within a
mile walkable distance to where the new location would be.
So I think more Kevin Warren plays a major role
in trying to bring that stadium to the city than
trying to satisfy Caleb Williams. Because if they went out
to Arlington Park and they built a new stadium out there,

(04:24):
it would also be a dome stadium. So It's not
necessarily Caleb, but they do want the best facility you
can possibly offer.

Speaker 4 (04:33):
The organization and the fans of the Bears.

Speaker 1 (04:35):
Now absolutely are And then the Bears also selected nine. Here, Tom,
what do you think the Bears are hoping for there?
Are they looking for a playmaker to put with Caleb?
Maybe some more help up front though I think you
guys are in pretty good shape of tackle based on
what the offensive und looked like last year. Maybe a
trade up. What do you think the Bears thoughts are
and what are the hoping happens? One through weight? So
they have something available to them in nine that they want.

Speaker 3 (04:57):
So to me, number nine, I would have three prior
already picks. I would have like a Joe Ault, a
Dallas Turner, or a Roman a Dounza. If one of
those guys were available, then I would be more than
happy to take them, and they would compliment Montese Sweat
and the opposite of the defensive line, a premier left
tackle for this offense, bringing in a new quarterback or

(05:19):
a receiver go along with Keenan Allen, DJ Williams, Cole
Kmet and Gerald Everett, the new tight end they signed
this year and if one of those guys were not available,
then I would look to trade down and try to
multiply my picks, because the Bears only have four picks
going into the draft, So if you could turn that
number nine pick into maybe two this year and one

(05:40):
next year, I think that would be an option that
you'd have to explore.

Speaker 1 (05:44):
Would you slide the league Neighbors into that group two
or are you just assuming he's not going to be
there based on what you know?

Speaker 3 (05:51):
Would I would keep him in that group, But I
think that there's a couple of other receivers that are
comparative to him that maybe that you can multiply your picks.
So but I like Malik Neighbors, There's no doubt about it.

Speaker 5 (06:06):
And I like.

Speaker 3 (06:07):
Players that have played for Brian Kelly. Being a notre
dameer myself, Brian Kelly's got a reputation that he's a
strict guy to play for, and I think when if
you play for a Jim Harball, you play for Brian Kelly,
you get a little bit of that tough exterior offensive
line coach that you're already used to when you come
up to the NFL.

Speaker 1 (06:27):
I'm trying to figure out when he might get drafted,
because I think he's a great player. Do you think
brock Bauers would be in the conversation there? I know
you guys have a pretty solid and good tight end room,
but black Bowers is also a special playmaker. Do you
think he might be in the mix there or do
you think not not so much?

Speaker 3 (06:42):
You know, I only don't because they signed Cole Komet
to an extension last year. They just brought in Gerald Everett.
They got a guy behind the scenes, Steven Carlson. So
if you look at three tight ends, we already have them.
If you're talking about it bringing bringing in a tight
end in the first round, then you better be ready
to play him a majority of the snaps per game.

(07:02):
And I don't think that's the most emergency of needs
for the Bears. I still think it's anywhere offensive line
outside of right tackle still can help the receiver position,
or either a dominating, tough three technique defensive tackle or
a defensive end.

Speaker 1 (07:22):
And you think, since they only have those four picks,
not many on Day three, that a trade up would
probably be very unlikely.

Speaker 3 (07:29):
Trade up, yeah, trade down more likely of a scenario
for there if there's a guy that you say, Okay,
that's gonna be still there in the low first round
or early first round. I'd have to explore a couple
of those kids as well.

Speaker 1 (07:43):
Tom great stuff, My friend. Always appreciate you joining us.
Anything you want to promote, Tell the folks where to
find you.

Speaker 4 (07:49):
I got no social media. I'm a ghost.

Speaker 3 (07:52):
So me and you and I talking here is about
as close as as.

Speaker 1 (07:56):
You can get. I love it up there. He does
a radio animal us for the Bears Radio network. Tom
good stuff, we'll talk to you soon.

Speaker 4 (08:03):
I appreciate it. Thanks for having me, all right.

Speaker 1 (08:05):
That's Tom Thayer. He selects Caleb Williams for the Chicago Bears,
and now we transition to the Washington Commanders, who have
a brand new staff top to bottom, new ownership, the
whole nine yards, and to join us to talk about
what they might do with the second overall pick is
their play by play man on the radio, Bram Weinstein,
Bram John sh Malke. Here, how you doing man?

Speaker 6 (08:25):
Hey John?

Speaker 1 (08:25):
How are you doing great?

Speaker 5 (08:27):
All right?

Speaker 1 (08:27):
So let's talk about it. You've had a lot of
change there in the off season, a new ownership group,
new GM, new head coach. What has this process been
from your point of view of how they've gone about
trying to land on who the best fit here is
it second overall, So a lot.

Speaker 7 (08:42):
Of change is an understatement, Like it's literally everything The
owners took over late in the process last year around July.
They had promised they would let things play out literally
throughout the building, from the front office to the coaching
business side, everything, and their fingerprints have kind of started
to be put on the organization moving forward in a

(09:03):
lot of different ways. They've hired obviously new front office
headed by Adam Peters. They were able to poach an
assistant GM from the Lions and Lance Newmark. They obviously
hired Dan Quinn. They I obviously hired a high level
coordinator in Cliff Kingsbury. And then I won't even bore
you with all the details of all the different roles

(09:24):
that they're filling that kind of weren't here in Washington
in the past. So it's all extremely different. And I'll
tell you this too very tight lift. Like we've been
guessing for weeks about what they're going.

Speaker 5 (09:35):
To do at number two.

Speaker 1 (09:37):
So I guess asked my next question. Then even at
this point we're recording this exactly a week before the
draft on a Tuesday. This will post it a couple
of days. What's your level of confidence even now, Like
the stuff that's come out seems to now be leaning
towards Jane and Daniels, But I won there if that's
just people repeating the same really unsourced guests, or if
that's really source stuff, Like, what is your level of

(09:59):
confidence even at this point so close to the draft?

Speaker 7 (10:02):
I mean, so I'll just put it this way, like
when I, you know, study the players, I think they're
gonna pick Jayden and Daniels. Most of the scouts around
the league, as you mentioned, kind of point towards. It's
gonna be very hard for them to turn that down.
The only thing that kind of hangs like in the
balance here is fit for the offense. Cliff Kingsbury is

(10:24):
going to run some version of the air raid offense
when Drake may not last year, but the year before
worked under Phil Longo at North Carolina, he ran the
air raid offense. So there's like a specific fit for Drake.
May I know they sincerely liked JJ McCarthy. They brought
him in for one of their top thirty visits. I
don't believe that is the direction they will go. But

(10:46):
I'll go back to what I said before. They've been
extremely tight lipped. I'm not one hundred percent about anything.
I'm more fifty to fifty between May and Daniels, but
I am leaning Daniels, and I do believe that's the
direction they'll go.

Speaker 1 (10:58):
Talk about the relationship of how the Dan Quinn and
Cliff Kingsbury thing is going to work here, because I
think it's interesting. You have the offensive coordinator. I'm assume
he's going to have a big role in selecting the quarterback,
especially since the head coach is a defensive guy. But
I think the head coach is a defensive guy brings
a different perspective because he'll be able to give input
as to how difficult it will be the game plan
against that specific quarterback. Right, So talk a little bit

(11:20):
about that dynamic and how you think that's going to work.

Speaker 7 (11:23):
We're kind of waiting to see how it works out. Obviously,
our last coach was defensive coach too. He had two
different offensive coordinators over the four years and largely let
them run the offense, maybe a little bit to his
detriment last year with the amount of power that was
given to Eric the enemy, and that's the past, and
you probably don't want to hear that story now because
it's far in the past. But he did so a
Scott Turner two as his original offensive coordinator. He gave

(11:46):
them a lot of autonomy. We just don't know at
this point. I mean, they haven't practiced yet. Dan Quinn
in his press conferences and media availabilities talks about how
Cliff Kingsbury is going to have also a tremendous amount
of autonomy. But will this coach put his finger a
little bit more on the scales than Ron Rivera did
on that side of the ball. I think we have

(12:06):
to kind of wait and see. I agree with you
that Kingsbury is gonna have a lot of say in
who the selection ultimately is. But dan quit has made
a point of saying in this second go around as
the head coach that one of the lessons he learned
from his stint in Atlanta was he put too much
on his plate and he needs to rely on others.
And the belief is that the front office, the general manager,

(12:30):
is ultimately the one who's going to make the choice
here kind of regardless of what the opinions are of
the coaches, so they're all meeting, but there is a
delineation of order here that hasn't been here in a
long time. The front office does the front office stuff,
the head coach does the head coach stuff, the coordinators
do the coordinator stuff, and that's kind of the triangle
of power that's being built here.

Speaker 1 (12:50):
And look, when when you're picking a quarterback, to your point,
you've talked about fit a little bit. But if you're
the general manager, look what happens If Kingsbury is a
great year, he gets hard as a head coach next year, right,
and then the system changes. You almost need to just
pick the best player, right, because you don't know how
long this system is going to be here if you're
out of ers.

Speaker 8 (13:08):
Right.

Speaker 7 (13:09):
Yes, there's a fear obviously with the hiring of Kingsbury.
If things go well, especially with a young quarterback like
say Washington lucks into We've got CJ. Stroud of twenty
twenty four, and then all of sudden, Cliff Kingsbury walks
into a situation where he is wanted again around the
league and leaves. They seem to have thought this through.
One of the most underrated hirings of the offseason was

(13:31):
Brian Johnson, the former offensive coordinator in Philadelphia, who is
working literally below Cliff Kingsbury and is expected to work
hands on with the new quarterback that they get. And
it feels logical that if Kingsbury were to leave within
a year or two, that he would have sent.

Speaker 4 (13:46):
Up the chain.

Speaker 1 (13:46):
All right, so let's make the pick, and now of
a couple of files, I think you already hinted at
it here, the Washington Commanders the second overall pick in
our twenty twenty four Reporters mock draft.

Speaker 7 (13:54):
They select Jayden Daniels, quarterback LSU Heisman winner, second time
they've done it in ten years, first time since RG three.

Speaker 1 (14:03):
All Right, couple, and this is exciting for Washington. They've
been literally trying to find a quarterback since Mark Rippin.
And I understand that's and I guess RG three was.
I know Kirk Cousins was kind of in there in
the interim part, but for a guy that's gonna be
there for a long long time. A couple quick ones.
If Caleb Williams somehow gets the number two, you would
think that's the pick, correct.

Speaker 7 (14:21):
I think the card gets run up to the stage
as fast as possible. Caleb Williams, one is from Washington, DC,
has stated he would be happy to play here, And yeah,
we don't expect that. Obviously, we don't expect that to happen.
I've been secretly hoping all along, and I think a
lot of people in this area have that for some reason,
the Bears fall in love with somebody else.

Speaker 1 (14:44):
Yeah, unlikely. I agree. Any thought of a trade down
slash non quarterback here or is this data complete?

Speaker 7 (14:53):
Yes, I think there is. They've never closed the door
on it. I don't believe that's the direction they're going
to go. And the second they traded Sam Howe kind
of told you that they're going to take a quarterback.
If they get overwhelmed with an offer from say Minnesota
or the Raiders, who seem to be the most likely
candidates to try to overwhelm a team, then I guess

(15:15):
it's possible, but I really don't believe it's going to happen,
and I think the deal would have to be so
grandiose they can't turn it down.

Speaker 1 (15:22):
And then finally, it sounds like this is pretty close, right,
Like no quarterbacks run away with this. You mentioned they
like JJ, McCarthy, Daniels in May. It seems like these guys,
and this seems to be the case with most of
the league too, that these quarterbacks are are all pretty
well liked.

Speaker 7 (15:38):
Yes, you know, it's been interesting throughout this process, like
especially with where Caleb all of a sudden, the Bears
kind of landed on Caleb Williams and that was just
kind of it. So we're the pivot point of the
draft and we're the ones that have to make a decision.
Daniels and May are very different players from a skill set,
and you know, like all along, I think it gets
easier if you get a red flag on somebody and

(16:02):
you get the smoke out there that like this guy's
work ethic or this guy's this thing, or this guy's
that got that problem. You don't hear that about either
one of them, or McCarthy for that matter. You don't
hear about Penix either, Like there's been none of that
this year. Sometimes that kind of clears the way for
everybody to go, Okay, I think we're making the right
decision because we're getting the person that we want. It
doesn't feel like that there's an issue with any of

(16:24):
these players and so Adam Peter said, this the owner's meeting,
when last time he met with the media, or he
has this pretty draft press conference later this week, and
he said he just like in a moment of just
complete honesty, he just kind of looked into one of
the cameras and he said, this is a really big decision.
And I think it's like weighing on him that this

(16:45):
is not easy, it's not clear, and they have it's
a good problem. They have really, really really good options.
But as you know, just because you pick somebody high
does not mean they're going to end up working out.
And the chances of let's just take may Daniel and
Williams it's the top three in some order, the chances
of all three of them becoming great elite franchise quarterbacks

(17:08):
is slim. So they're going to be measured by this decision.
It's their first major decision in player personnel. They've done
a lot in free agency with reshaping the roster, but
they haven't made an impact signing yet. This is the
first one that's going to happen. So this is a
huge It's an incredible opportunity to walk in and reshape

(17:29):
the team. It's also a huge decision, and we're just
hoping around here because to your point, we haven't had
a franchise quarterback in a long time, or one over
any period of time that we finally get it right.

Speaker 1 (17:40):
Absolutely final thing. And by the way, you Thill mc McCarthy,
odds are two of those four guys are going to
fail in some way, shape or form. If you look
at just the math in the history of the NFL
want two of those four guys are not going to
work out. So you're right, and it's an in the exact science.
It's the toughest thing in sports to do is evaluate
and draft quarterback, So it's a really tough decision. Finally,
I thought what you guys didn't fre agency brand was interesting.

(18:02):
I just want to touch on that. But I don't
giant fans try to keep track of the division, no
star moves. To your point, didn't you know, invest super
big money in any one guy?

Speaker 7 (18:10):
Uh?

Speaker 1 (18:10):
They poasted a lot of former Cowboys from dank Quin's
time there. Obviously, it seems like they're just trying to
build kind of a baseline of a team full of
solid players with solid guys, trying to build a culture.
Do I have that take fairly there, Yes.

Speaker 7 (18:25):
And I think, you know, the realization after last year
was they had a lot of holes on the roster
that needed to be filled. And you know, last year
was interesting. When we went into the season, there were
some number, it was like twenty to twenty five players
that were on expiring contracts, which is unusual, and so
they went into the season knowing this tould be the

(18:47):
case once there was a change in ownership. I don't
believe that anybody was in any mood or desire to
try to extend anyone because kind of the key franchise
players Terry McLaurin, John Allen, and Deron pay they were
already under contract. They allowed the Chase Young and Montes'
sweat situations play themselves out Cam Curl two to a
lesser degree, but they let those play out. Everybody else

(19:10):
there really wasn't a name or a player that felt
like that they needed to address before they go into
the seasons. They let it all play out. Obviously, the
season didn't go very well, and there's a lot of change.

Speaker 5 (19:19):
Well.

Speaker 7 (19:19):
When Adam Peters walked in, half of his rosters not
under contract, and so they were busy. They also walked
in with the most cap room in the league, so
they walked into a very unique situation. Most cap room,
tons of expiring contracts, very few limiting contracts, Like even
their big ones don't look so big anymore comparative to

(19:42):
what's happened around the league with Alan or Payne or
McLaurin and all this draft capital and all of a sudden,
they had a lot of work to do, so they
were extremely busy, but I would describe it as aggressive
but disciplined. Like every single one of these deals that
they signed, they're all short term, with a few exceptions,

(20:03):
but none of them really put any kind of lean
on their cap at any point in time. Many of
them are taking chances on players. Jeremy Chin if he
could become what he was a couple of years ago
in Carolina, great, but they only signed him to do
a one year deal. Bobby Wagner one year deal. They
had to reshape their offensive line, so they spent a
little money on Tyler Biattish from the Cowboys, but then

(20:24):
they brought in Nick Alagretti from the Chiefs, who they're
hoping is going to become a.

Speaker 4 (20:27):
Starter at left guard.

Speaker 7 (20:29):
But again, it's like a three year deal at five
million per year. So if he doesn't ascend that way,
there's nothing cap prohibitive. They took no real swing on anybody.
And you'll see this across the board like they brought
in people to fill a lot of holes. It is
the baselining of the roster moving forward.

Speaker 1 (20:45):
Ram awesome stuff. Tell the folks where they can find you,
and find you in all your great contents.

Speaker 7 (20:48):
Can find me at real brand w on all of
the different social media platforms. I have a radio show
from three to five in Washington on ESPN six thirty,
the Sport's Capital, and I call the Commander's Game. So
we'll see you up at met life whenever we get
you on the schedule.

Speaker 1 (21:02):
Yeah, and we'll we'll have that in a couple of
weeks and we figure out who's going where when. Brand
good stuff, my friend, I appreciate it.

Speaker 4 (21:08):
See you.

Speaker 9 (21:10):
You love turf, You're good at it. So you start
a turf fiz business grows, your savings grow, become the
most celebrated name in turf. Are you ready for all
that life brings?

Speaker 1 (21:24):
Giant Total Podcast is brought to you by Citizens the
official Bank of the Giants from game data. Everyday. Citizens
is made ready for giant fans with insights, guidance, and solutions.
Learn more at citizens bank dot com. Caleb Williams won
to the Bears no surprise, jayde and Daniels a second
overall pick to the Washington Commanders. Now to make this
selection for the new England Patriots is Mike Geordy. He

(21:44):
covers them from the Boston Sports Journal. You probably remember
him from his time over at NFL Network. Mike, appreciate
the time, man. How's the off season, Trinia. A lot
of new faces up there for the Patriots for the
first time in a long time.

Speaker 2 (21:56):
Yeah, this has not been the standard off season for
the Patriots, right, change and trying to get to know
the new decision makers here and figure out what they're thinking,
you know, as you go through free agency and headed
into the draft. But it's it's kind of an exciting time, right.
We'd live the same life for twenty four to twenty
five years of Bill Belichick and it was time for
a change. And now let's see if they made the
right change and these are the right people to push

(22:18):
the Patriots forward.

Speaker 1 (22:19):
Yeah, you've had some exposure to the new regime from
Mayo to Wolf. The new general matters. Obviously, Robert crafts
still there as the man in charge of everything. What's
your feel for the approach of this regime in terms
of how quickly they want to build this thing back up? Obviously,
Robert Kraft over eighty years old, but you have a
young core here and a roster that has a lot

(22:40):
of holes to fill. What's your feel for that.

Speaker 2 (22:43):
I think there's a real push and pull inside the
organization already because of what you mentioned right, Robert is
aging wants this team to get back to where it
had been for many, many years, with Belichick and Tom
Brady winning Super Bowls, competing for titles, you know, in
the AFC Championship Game basically every year, and now the
last four ye have been very difficult for him to swallow.
They've obviously struggled at the quarterback position, but the roster

(23:05):
was really depleted, and so I think there's this idea that,
you know, some people inside the building would like to
sort of maybe think about trading back right and getting
more assets, because when you look at the roster, you
say there's just not enough Blue Chippers, but then other
people look at it and say you don't want to
be picking the third ever again. And if you get
the quarterback right here, you can piece mail it together

(23:25):
for the first year, then continue to add in year
two and maybe allow that player to set sail and
become the franchise quarterback that you hope he's going to be.
So I think that's invariably what they're going to do.
I think it's just too rich and there's just too
much talent at the top of the draft to say,
you know what, we're going to walk away from a
quarterback or we're going to pick one in the second round. No,
we're here at three. There are some good prospects. Let's

(23:48):
take one of them develop and hope we found the guy.

Speaker 1 (23:50):
Yeah, Mike, And that's the trick, right And I think
that's always the question and the evaluation here, whether or
not you get the quarterback first and then you build
around the quarterback or you want to make the situation
better for when the quarterback arrives. But if you wait
to only get the quarterback, you could be sitting there
picking eleventh or twelve. You can't get one. And if
they really believe this year that who knows who's actually

(24:11):
going to be there three or four of these quarterbacks
can be high level NFL starters. I'm not sure there's
a good rationale for not taking them.

Speaker 5 (24:22):
I one hundred percent a grand look.

Speaker 2 (24:23):
I think they sort of set themselves up for this
right because they signed Jacoby Brissett, so he's the perfect
bridge quarterback and someone who has worked so well with
younger quarterbacks. Just ask Sam Howe about him in Washington
and how helpful Jacoby was for him last year. Sam
Howe is going to miss Jacoby Brissett in that front
because he was such a good person to learn from,
to understand work habits, how you get things done, and

(24:45):
there was no ego involved in there. You know, Jacoby
Brissette wants to start football games, but okay, you went
with Sam. I'm going to do everything I can to
make sure that Sam is ready to go on Sunday,
as well as myself. So they have him and they
have Bailey Zappi, who I think a lot of people
in New England thought probably wouldn't still be here. But
it makes a lot of sense in that he started
games in each of the last two years. You know
that you can survive a couple games with him as

(25:08):
a starting quarterback. So if your rookie quarterback is not
ready to go, and Jacoby Brissett doesn't pan out early,
then you don't turn to the rookie quarterback and he's
not ready, You turn to Bailey's appy someone was experience.
So you're not pushing this kid out there before he's
ready or before you're ready for him.

Speaker 1 (25:25):
Yeah, when it comes to Elliott Wolf, look he's not
his dad. But to think some of those theories and
ideas of team building having carried over, I think would
be a little naive. And the one thing Ron Wolf
used to do, Mike, you know this, just stack quarterbacks, right,
you pick one every year every couple of years is
the most important position. You got to make sure you
are set. So I got to imagine that has to
play into some of the thinking here, just understanding how

(25:46):
important that position is.

Speaker 2 (25:48):
Well, just like you mentioned with his dad, right, I
mean during the time that he had Brett Favre, they
also draft Hasselback, they draft Brunell, They turn those guys
into high picks. It just makes sense to be in
the quarterback business, if not every year every other year,
because you just don't know, you might find that diamond
in the rough after the first round, second, third, fourth round,
be able to develop that guy and turn him into

(26:08):
an asset for you going forward, or he's a very
cheap backup quarterback, then you trust to put in there.
I think that's the way most teams should operate. Unfortunately,
I don't think a lot of them do. But I'm
certain that Elliott understands that, and I would believe strongly,
just based on how he's constructed the room thus far,
that he understands the value of that position and having

(26:30):
more than enough guys, Right, you've got.

Speaker 5 (26:31):
To be prepared for every situation.

Speaker 1 (26:33):
How closed of a book has this front office and
coaching staff been? You know, we all know Bill Belichick
never let anything get out of that building. Has this
been the same? Has been a little bit different? Have
you gotten some kind of fuel for what they're doing?
Are you still operating more on kind of outside intelligence?

Speaker 2 (26:48):
Well, I think Alliant Wolf has been pretty closed off
about his desires here. Like I mean, he talked about it,
the combine, they need to weaponize the offense. Look, he's
just saying what the rest of us have known for
the last even back to the Brady's final couple of
years right where they just didn't have enough pieces on offense.
And you look at their group last year and you say,
that's the bottom third receiver room. You know, ramondre Stevenson's

(27:10):
their best offensive player, he's a running back.

Speaker 5 (27:11):
How much gonna running back really impact it?

Speaker 2 (27:13):
Didn't have enough on the offensive line, Like, there's a
lot of things for him to attack there. So when
he said that, people are like, oh, it's a different regime.
I'm like, well, no, he's just kind of echoing what
we all know need to be done. But then in
terms of what he likes, he hasn't said, you know,
and in fact, my understanding of what's going on in
the offices right now is he obviously he's the final
decision maker. He's the one who's going to make the pick,

(27:34):
but he's letting everyone else debate and he's just taking
it all in. You know, he doesn't want to tip
his hand so that someone would say, man, I don't
want to go in there, Untell.

Speaker 4 (27:43):
That I think quarterback acts is terrible.

Speaker 2 (27:46):
Because that Elliot's going to look at me and in
his head be like, I think he's the best one
of the bunch.

Speaker 5 (27:50):
Like that, do you have a problem here.

Speaker 2 (27:52):
So he wants to encourage those discussions, and maybe someone
brings something up at the table that says Elliott says
to himself, did I see that right? Do I need
to go back and look at tape again? Do I
need to go back and look at my nose from interviews?
Did I miss that part of it?

Speaker 5 (28:05):
So? I think it's good healthy discussion.

Speaker 2 (28:07):
May has been a little bit more forthcoming and has
had to walk a couple things back. I think it's
to me, it's it's it's about when you're doing this
full time for the first time. You know, we talked
at Gerad every couple of weeks during the course of
the season on a zoom for five minutes. Right, it's nothing.
Now you're the head coach and your words carry even
more weight. And he did say that we're going to
spend a ton of money in free agency. That's not

(28:29):
what happened, and you know, he had to kind of
walk that back. It's been a couple other times when
he says stuff that he's had to walk back, but
nothing that I find damaging. And to me, it's just
part of the learning process for him, that understanding that
everything he says is going to be under a microscope.

Speaker 1 (28:42):
All right, let's make the pick down of a couple
follow ups. Here with the third pick in our Giants
little mock draft, the New England Patriots.

Speaker 2 (28:48):
Select Drake May, quarterback North Carolina.

Speaker 1 (28:52):
How close, Mike do you think it is right now?
Between May McCarthy, although jayde and Daniels into that mix too.
In this evaluation process for that Patriots front office.

Speaker 2 (29:02):
I think they look at Daniels as that group is
the most ready to go, right. But if he's not
going to be there, now you're looking at the traits
that May has, the things that you can't teach. And
I think the way it's been described to me and
I sort of get this having watched a lot of
Drake May's tape now, is that there isn't anything that
Drake hasn't done on a football field, right, Like, he

(29:23):
makes every throw that you want him to make. He's
been operating in big situations, two minute drills, he's been
really good on third down, all these different things. Now, look,
there's consistency issues. His footwork is a problem. But I
think when you talk to people, they've hired Alex Van
Pelt to be the offensive coordinator Ben mcadu, former head
coach of the Giants, who has a good reputation of
working with quarterbacks, and they say, we can fix this, right, Like,

(29:47):
this isn't something that should take you know, a year
to fix that. We can get this down in a
few months, and if, in fact, we feel like he's
ready to go, we'll put him out there. So I
think there's just too many things with Drake that you
can't you can't ignore. And like JJ definitely has fans
in the in the Patriots organization, and I think if
you look at Elliot's history with Cleveland, you know, he

(30:09):
was there when they drafted Baker Mayfield number one, and
that draft was supposed to be Sam Donnell and then
there was some rumblings that they were going to take
Josh Allen and at the end of the day they
decided on Baker Mayfield. Dorsey did John Dorsey, and Elliott
was part of that conversation. So I think Elliott likes
JJ and some of the energy that he brings, But again,
the traits are undeniable with Drake mac no question.

Speaker 1 (30:32):
Final question. If the Patriots did decide the trade down Mike,
would they be more in favor of just going down
a couple spots, maybe picking up a future pick, save
with the Giants at six, or would they be more
at Do you think to go down into that eleven
to thirteen ranges where you know the Vikings, the Raiders,
and the Broncos role potentially looking for their new quarterback,

(30:52):
where your return is going to be much bigger in
terms of quantity of picks, but you're probably trading out
of that blue chip level of player that I and
most other people think is really strong in this draft.

Speaker 2 (31:04):
And that's the sense that I get is that if
they do go back, the feeling, at least among some
people in the organization I to talk to, is like,
you don't want to go back too far. They're let's
say say, eight, nine, ten guys at the top of
the draft that people think plug and play and that
guy could be an All Pro one day or at
least a Pro.

Speaker 5 (31:19):
Bowl over and over again.

Speaker 2 (31:21):
And I think if you start to get out of
that range, you get down to Vegas at thirteen or
even Minnesota at eleven, have you risked now removing yourself
from that group of players and maybe getting the B
plus player instead of the A player, and I think again,
even though they could use B plus players, they just
don't have enough blue chip players for me to think
that that makes a lot of sense to go back

(31:42):
get more picks, and then you're sort of throwing darts
and hoping that you know, you hit somebody later on.
I think when you look at that top eight, nine,
ten guys, you say, man, there's a perfect role for him.
There's a role right away, and that guy can impact
us right away.

Speaker 1 (31:55):
My good stuff, my friend, appreciate the time. Tell the
folks who you'll find all your great work these days.

Speaker 2 (32:00):
I'm on Twitter at Mike Giardi and I'm on Boston
Sports Journal. You can definitely check me out there. We
have been all over the draft. It's again, this is
a different time for us. They haven't been a haven't
picked this high in eons, right, I think since Drew
Bledsoe really quite frankly, so it's kind of a different
time for us. And it's been interesting to sort of
look at positions that normally you wouldn't be looking at.

(32:21):
Normally we're looking at Day three quarterbacks and here you're
looking at Day one guys that are going off at
the top of the board.

Speaker 1 (32:26):
Well, knowing those organization is better than Mike. He has
his finger on the pulse of the Patriots. Mike, we
appreciate the time. Thanks so much for doing this, Thanks sir.
Our mock draft has been a little chalky so far.
Picks one through three, the three quarterbacks you would expect
Caleb Williams at number one, number two, Jade and Daniels
to the Commanders, and then Drake May to the New
England Patriots. That brings us to pick number four. We

(32:48):
bring in Darren Urban, who of course writes for the
Arizona Cardinals team site. Darren John Schmoke here in the
Giants facility. You're in the Cardinals facility. Clearly, thanks for
being with us, man. How's your off season been.

Speaker 6 (33:01):
It's been good.

Speaker 10 (33:02):
I mean, clearly after last season when the Cardinals were
undergoing a lot of changes and a new GM and
a new coach and just a whole bunch of different things,
there's been a settled feel to this a little bit more.
I mean, obviously the Cardinals still have a lot that
they're trying to get done in terms of improving the roster.
But Kyler Murray's back, he's healthy, so I have a

(33:24):
whole offseason, and now it's a question of Giamani Austin
Fort making sure that he builds up this roster to
a point where this team can be competitive again.

Speaker 1 (33:32):
You know, it's funny you wouldn't think to say this
about a team that's picking fourth overall, but I think
the quality of the play for the Cardinals is actually
pretty good last year. I think there's a lot of
reasons to be optimistic with what we saw from the
coaching on both sides of the football, and from just frankly,
how hard the players played.

Speaker 10 (33:48):
Yeah, I don't think there's any question, and obviously you
guys got to see that first hand. I know the
Giants ended up pulling out that win early in the season,
but I'll be honest, that first half that the Cardinals
played against the Giants was the finest half of football
that I had seen this team play in quite some time.
And then that went on. They won in Pittsburgh, they
won in Philadelphia. Their quality wins and again, like you said,

(34:11):
the way they were playing, not only how hard, but
kind of just the complete sea change of how they
approach offense, especially after going from Cliff Kingsbury to now
Drew Petsing's offense more of a run first. And this
is all while trying to bring back Kyler Murray from
an ACL tear and having him do it on the
fly in the middle of a season I thought was

(34:32):
pretty impressive.

Speaker 1 (34:33):
And the Carlos are the first team in this draft
that has their quarterback in place. Kyler Murray's under contract.
You're paying him a lot of money, but if he's
healthy and he's playing well, that really doesn't matter. So
how do you figure his timetable? Meaning Murray's he's in
his prime. You're paying him, but you're still trying to
build the rest of the roster. So what's the pace
now of this rebuild? Last year it was very much

(34:55):
a gather picks plan for the future type of plan.
And is that still where the Cardinals are at or
is this thing starting to now accelerate a little bit?

Speaker 10 (35:05):
I mean, I think it's I think you're kind of
in between a little bit of seeing where it might be.
I mean, I think we've seen some of these before.
A lot of people like making the comparison to what
the Cardinals are doing to what the Lions did when
Dan Campbell first came in. And if you look at
Dan Campbell's second year. They took a jump and wins,
but it's not like they were in the playoffs. I
don't know what's exactly gonna happen. I think last year,

(35:26):
given the fact you knew were going to miss Kyler
Murray for at least half the season, and you really
needed to restructure the roster in a lot of ways,
it made sense to kind of fully go in a whole.

Speaker 6 (35:38):
Hog on the rebuild. You know, this year you've got
Kyler healthy.

Speaker 5 (35:42):
You know.

Speaker 10 (35:42):
I do think this offense is in a place where
it could do some things if you add the right pieces. Defensively,
they do need more pieces than they do on offense,
but again, if you fight the way you did under
Nick Rollis the defensive coordinator last year, you know, maybe
it won't take that many pieces.

Speaker 6 (36:01):
The schedule still difficult.

Speaker 10 (36:04):
Not quite as hard perhaps as what they saw last year.
I think there's a lot in place, and we'll see.
I certainly wouldn't rule any kind of push out, because,
let's face it, John, I mean, when you look at
this league, there's always that possibility of making a huge
jump in one season. It just depends on health. Who
you have in place, what your schedule looks like. And

(36:26):
the Cardinals, if Kyler Murray plays the way they hope
he can play, I think they're in a spot to
potentially surprise some people.

Speaker 1 (36:33):
Yeah, and them the Giants two years ago, right, no
one expect them to be a playoff team. They figure
out a way to not only get into the playoffs,
but even win a playoff game. So you're right, they
get happy at any year. And the reason I asked
that question, Darren is I think the thought here is
that the Cardinals could still be in the business of
trading down, acquiring more picks, getting more AMMO or you're
looking at the best non quarterback in the class. Whoever,

(36:54):
the Cardinals think that is that they could select that player,
which would probably be the first or second highest graded
player on on any logical person's bared here. So what
are the thoughts behind whether or not the Cardinals would
look to move out of the spot?

Speaker 10 (37:06):
Well, I mean I made this analogy in my mailbag today,
like if you're in a situation where you don't want
to move from your house and you have no plans to,
but somebody comes along and offers you some ridiculous amount
of money, you're gonna consider it, and you might even
pull the trigger, because you'd be dumb not to. I
feel like that's a little bit like where the Cardinals are.

(37:27):
They're in a really good place. They're gonna get an
excellent football player out four and like you said, potentially
either the first or second best player in the class
depending on who you ask, or they can get extra
first round picks. They've already got a second first round
pick they pick number twenty seven as well. I mean,
I'm just throwing obviously the speculation about the Vikings. The

(37:49):
Vikings somehow come to you and say we're gonna give
you eleven and twenty three. You already have twenty seven,
We'll give you a first next year, and who knows,
maybe even one other lower pick. I mean, if you're
the Cardinals, do you pass on that. I understand what
you're passing at for, but that's a lot of potentially

(38:09):
high profile type guys that you can add to this
roster and make this rebuild go that much faster. So
I think everything's on the table. MONI quite frankly, he
wouldn't be doing his job if he wasn't listening. And
the other thing too, for me, We're not going to
know until that fourth pick is up. I mean, you
mentioned it could go Chalk and the Patriots end up

(38:31):
going quarterback. But what if the Patriots don't go quarterback?
What if the Patriots decide to take Marvin Harrison. What
happens if they go McCarthy third and then Drake may
is sitting there at for does that become a more
valuable thing? You just don't know what my teams might
want to do and what they might offer under the
pressure of being on the clock. So is that is

(38:52):
the trade possible? Absolutely? Would I be shocked if the
Cardinals stick and pick I wouldn't be shocked on that either.
I think Moni's in a really good place.

Speaker 1 (38:59):
How about option What if they trade back and then
move back up a couple spots down to pick one
of those leak guys. I guess he's been doing that
too well.

Speaker 6 (39:06):
They did that last year again, they were at three.

Speaker 10 (39:07):
Last year, they traded back to twelve with Houston and
then they traded back up to six to get Paris Johnson. So, MANI,
Austin Ford absolutely has proven he'll do that, and I
wouldn't rule that out either, because he's got a track
record already as a GM to be able to not
only make those moves but seemingly make them really well.
And I don't know if you got a chance to,

(39:29):
but many many people saw got to see our video
of him in the war room last year making all
those moves. He seems a natural in that environment about
making those moves and doing it calmly and with the
right mindset. So again, I'm not ruling anything out with
this guy, and that's why a lot of people feel
really good about him pushing this roster forward.

Speaker 1 (39:50):
All right. So with the pick number four in our
Giants huddle, Reporter Monck draft the Arizona Cardinals select.

Speaker 10 (39:57):
I'm going to, unfortunately for you, John stay Shaw, I
am going to go with Marvin Harrison. Receiver is a
place where they need help. A lot of people feel
Marvin Harrison is the best guy I know. As we
hit as we get through this forever process of actually
getting to the draft, more and more people want to
talk about, well, what if it's Romaduonsay and what if
it's Malik Neighbors, And those guys are both great players.

(40:20):
But I'm gonna stick with the guy that a lot
of people think uh is the best guy and it
just fills this gigantic need that they have. Again, I'm
going to reiterate, I'm not going to be surprised that
they trade out of it and we then potentially trade
back up for.

Speaker 6 (40:33):
A Duneesday or neighbors.

Speaker 10 (40:35):
But right now, in this little exercise, I'm going to
stay with Marvin Harrison up for is.

Speaker 1 (40:40):
This more about the position and the side of the
ball and helping Kyler or is this just that you
think he's the best player in the draft?

Speaker 5 (40:46):
You know?

Speaker 10 (40:47):
For for me, I'm not gonna sit here and say
I know who the best player in the draft is.

Speaker 6 (40:51):
But I know this. I know that if you had to,
if you had a name to me.

Speaker 10 (40:55):
The top three needs for the Cardinals right now would
be wide receiver, it would be cornerback, and it would
be edge rusher. And quite frankly, I do not see
the edge rusher or cornerback that makes sense at four
this year. Now is that person at eleven if you
trade back potentially, But I don't see that guy at four.

(41:16):
And I think when you talk about the best guys
in the draft and you're taking it for you take
a guy who around here, at least a lot of
the fans see as another potential Larry Fitzgerald, and obviously,
when you start talking about that name in this area,
people get very excited about potentially having another guy like that.

Speaker 1 (41:34):
Darren. Final question, how close do you think those wide
receivers are in terms of things you've heard in How
tough a decision this really is? Because I talk to
people around the league and they tell me that, look,
there are a lot of teams that have Neighbors as
a number one guy, and this order is going to
be different for a lot of different teams.

Speaker 10 (41:50):
And I wouldn't be surprised about that. And again, I
don't even know if Harrison would be the guy that
the Cardinals have first.

Speaker 6 (41:56):
Out of those three. It makes a lot of sense
in a lot of different ways.

Speaker 10 (42:01):
I can see why people like the other two guys.
I personally tend to move a little bit more towards
a Dunsa and Harrison because of their size, their height
and milite.

Speaker 6 (42:12):
Neighbors is six feet.

Speaker 10 (42:14):
I think he's going to be a fantastic player, but
I love the idea of the Cardinals having a bigger receiver. Again,
having covered the entire career. Larry Fitzgerald. I remember what
that meant in the passing game, and I just think
both those guys really fit it. And it just feels,
given everything we've heard, that Harrison might be slightly ahead

(42:35):
of a donsay.

Speaker 6 (42:35):
And again when we.

Speaker 10 (42:37):
Start talking about who's where and everything, you know, I
get very wary of the conversations in the last two
weeks before the draft, because it's whether it's smoke screens
or it's people just getting tired of talking about the
same stuff so they just try and get different with
how they analyze things. This whole last couple of weeks
gets really kind of sideways in a lot of ways, and.

Speaker 1 (42:59):
I guess you're this final one at twenty seven. Then
you're looking at corner or edge based on the needs
you just talked about.

Speaker 10 (43:05):
I could see corner, I could see edge. I could
see potentially interior offensive line.

Speaker 6 (43:10):
That's another need of theirs.

Speaker 10 (43:12):
They've done a better job in terms of filling those
needs and free agency so they don't.

Speaker 6 (43:16):
Have to do that, but they could use a good
guard if somebody's there at twenty seven.

Speaker 10 (43:21):
I'm not ruling anything out, and not only do they
have twenty seven but they also have thirty five, so
you know they've got some options there. There should be
some corners there at twenty seven or thirty five that
they could be able to fill that role. The edge
rusher is a lot more of a sticky situation because
I feel like too high at four, the top guys
two or three of them are probably all gone by

(43:43):
twenty seven.

Speaker 6 (43:44):
Maybe not.

Speaker 10 (43:45):
There could be guy at twenty seven at thirty five,
but maybe it's a little bit more of a crapshoot
of like a boom er Bus type of dude that
you would take and say he could be really good
edge rusher, and he might wash out a little bit.
We've seen a lot of edge rushers like that, so
it'll be interesting to see how Cardinals approach it.

Speaker 1 (44:01):
Well, it sounds like you're talking about shop Robinson. But
I but I, oh, I know you're not naming any names.
I'm navid names and that's okay. That's not gonna get
you with any trouble. Uh, Darren, great stuff. Tell the
phones where they can find all your work.

Speaker 10 (44:15):
We're on Azycardinals dot com and if you go to
axime at cards.

Speaker 1 (44:19):
Chatter Darren, great stuff man. Thank you so much.

Speaker 6 (44:22):
I appreciate it.

Speaker 9 (44:23):
You're ready for a change. Pay Day comes early with citizens,
so go to that retreat. Knew you moves to the country.
Now you're raising goats and launching a lifestyle brand. Are
you ready for all that life brings?

Speaker 8 (44:38):
All?

Speaker 1 (44:38):
Right? Now, we turn our attention to the fifth pick
in our twenty twenty four Giants Huddle mock draft, and
to make that selection for the Los Angeles Chargers is
Daniel Popper, former New Yorker who now covers the Chargers
for The Athletic. Daniel's good to see you, man, How are.

Speaker 11 (44:52):
You good to see you as well? Former New york
I feel like if you're from New York area, you're always.

Speaker 5 (44:56):
In New York.

Speaker 1 (44:57):
That's true.

Speaker 11 (44:57):
I used to I used to live there, But I'm
all always going to be in New Yorker.

Speaker 1 (45:01):
You know, no, absolutely, And it's funny. We were on
the same panel on CBS the night or the night
after I think it was a Saturday or Sunday when
the Jets drafted Sam Donald the Giants drafted Saquon Barkley,
and I was very commimentary of the Jets pick of
Sam Donald. You like the Barkley pick too, and we
sat there and now we're here five years later or
six years later, and neither guy is on the team

(45:23):
that they started at, which shows you what a crapshoot
the draft is exactly.

Speaker 11 (45:26):
And now we're gonna go ahead and try and prognosticate
what's gonna happen, which is just a feudal effort all
the way around.

Speaker 1 (45:32):
Yeah, and I think evaluating even these quarterbacks gonna be
a fetal effort too, But that is a longer conversation
for a different podcast. So Daniel, let's talk a little
bit about the Chargers here. I know you know this,
but I think a lot of fans realize what a
rough shape this roster is in right now and how
it could even get worse after next season. So give

(45:55):
me a breakdown of where the Chargers are here and
a little bit of a reset with Jim Harbaugh coming in.

Speaker 4 (46:00):
Yeah.

Speaker 11 (46:01):
So obviously you've had quite a bit of turnover. You know,
they headed into this offseason and they had four sort
of huge veteran contracts that they had to deal with,
Joey Bosa, Cluib Mack Keenan, Allen, Mike Williams. They end
up deciding to move on from the two receivers. Obviously,
Mike Williams signs with the Jets, they trade Keenan Allen
to the Bears, and so you start there. The receiver

(46:21):
room is super thin, and then you sort of move
along to the rest of the roster. They've done some
working free agency, Joe Hortiz, the new GM coming in,
signing a lot of the guys that he had either
drafted or brought into Baltimore during his twenty six years there,
and so they've added some depth. But there's still a
lot of holes here. I mean, you talk about obviously
starting with receiver, they could add to the offensive line.

(46:42):
The corner room is thin, the linebacker room is thin.
They need work on the defensive line, and so you know,
you start sort of looking through scenarios here. How do
the Chargers go about, you know, filling as many of
these needs as possible. Like they obviously have the star
power with Justin Herbert, Clive Mack and Joey Bosa still there,
but this is very much a rebuilding, retooling process for

(47:02):
Jim Harbaugh and Joor Hartiz as they enter you know,
sort of their first off season together.

Speaker 1 (47:06):
And then next year you could have Mac and Bosa
out the door based on what their contract situation is too, Right,
So I guess my question how much of a long
term process has Harbaugh and Ortiz talked about this being
or is this something they want to make more of
a quick retool given the type of contract Justin Herbert's
on there and his obviously elite skulls as a quarterback.

Speaker 11 (47:28):
Yeah, I mean publicly they've said they want to win
every single year, right, But I think you sort of
have to sort through those comments and look at the
roster and start to take a sober approach to this thing.
My whole thing all along is it makes more sense
to build for twenty five as opposed to twenty four.
Now you have Justin Herbert, you're always gonna have an
ability to compete. The question is the roster right now

(47:51):
capable of getting to a point where they're going to
be super Bowl caliber? And you just heard what I
talked about all of the different positions that they need.
It does feel like it's going to be sort of
a two year process here. But they could have moved
on from Joey, Bosa and Kloemac and they didn't, And
so I think they're trying to sort of toe that line,
find the middle ground where they can put a competitive

(48:12):
team on the field in twenty four, while also keeping
in the back of their mind that building for twenty five.
Really taking a shot in that year probably aligns better
with where the roster stands right now.

Speaker 1 (48:21):
And I am giving all the reporters in this mock
draft the ability to trade down if they want, so,
Danie'll give me the process here of how you would
think about a potential trade down. Here. I kind of
think of this like I did back in the day,
and I was a young kid then. But the way
Jimmy Johnson went into Dallas and he knew these college
players better than anyone else because he had just coached
in college for so long, he recruited most of these guys. Well,

(48:44):
that's what Jim Harbaugh is, right. So I would imagine,
much like Jimmy Johnson back in the day, he's gonna
want as many picks as possible because he knows these
college players so well. So take me through the idea
of trading back and what that scenario might look like.

Speaker 11 (48:57):
Yeah, so I wrote about it for today. The range
I'm looking at is like nine to thirteen because I
can see, you know, an explanation for why some of
those teams would move up, right, like the Bears and
the Jets. It's a little bit harder to get there,
but you could see both of them maybe moving up
to five if one of those receivers is available. I
know the Jets signed Mike Williams, but he's coming off

(49:18):
in acl after Garrett Wilson and Mike Williams, there's in't
a ton there. The Bears they absously traded for Keenan Allen.
That seems like a rental. He's on the last year
of his deal, you know, after DJ Moore. Not a
ton there, right, so he can see that sort of happening.
And then eleven you have the Vikings obviously you know,
possibility of moving up for quarterbacks. Same thing with the
Broncos and Raiders at twelve and thirteen, and so you

(49:38):
have sort of two different groups there, the two teams
that could potentially move up if they want one of
these receivers, to say, if four quarterbacks go in the
top four, or the teams that can be moving up
for a quarterback at nine and ten. I think you
could I would be willing to accept a deal that
doesn't include a future first round pick, some sort of
future second paired with some sort of maybe a third

(49:59):
round pick twenty four this year, some sort of you know,
third round, seventh round pick swap, that type of thing.
When you get into the eleven to thirteen range, like,
I'm not making a deal there unless I can get
a future first And this is this sort of aligns
with like the building process that we're just talking about, right,
Like I'm thinking twenty five is the year you build
it and really have a shot, and so accruing an
additional first round pick in twenty five that would go

(50:22):
a long way towards that sort of timeline, right. And
then you also look at the history of things, right,
what happens in this sort of range, What are sort
of the returns. The one I look at is the
Dolphins moving up for Jalen Waddle in twenty twenty one.
That was twelve to six, and the Eagles got a
future first out of that trade, and so like, that's

(50:42):
sort of the type of return that I'm looking at
in this sort of area. And if I was moving
to eleven or later, I wouldn't accept, you know, anything
less than a future.

Speaker 5 (50:53):
First.

Speaker 11 (50:53):
The other part of this too is that you're gonna
have a really good player there at five, and so
that's sort of the balance.

Speaker 1 (50:59):
Yeah, the Viking is interesting, right, So do you what
else do you think they will get in addition to
the two first this year? Would you try to get
that third first of them given their desperate situation or
do you think that's a pipe dream.

Speaker 11 (51:10):
That feels like too much? I think you probably you
asked for as much as you can get. The trade
I threw out was eleven and twenty three. The Chargers
give a twenty twenty five to seventh, and then the
Vikings give a twenty twenty five to third. So something
like that would sort of a ligne use. I'm basically
using trade value charts to figure out, okay, what's the
return usually look like? You know, the two trades that
I look back on that were sort of precedent were

(51:31):
the one I just mentioned about Waddle and then the
Bills moving up for Josh Allen twenty eighteen that was
twelve to seven. That was two seconds, and so like,
the value there is sort of around fifteen hundred points
based on the over the cap chart, and so like
that's sort of what I'm looking at now, there is
there are outliers here, right Like last year the Cardinals
traded out and then to twelve out of the top

(51:53):
five and then move back up to six to take
Paris Johnson out of Ohio state. That return with the
Lions was pretty much even. So you have sort of
these different scenarios to me, like prioritizing that return is
obviously super important.

Speaker 1 (52:08):
Yeah, I almost feel like you can have a bit
of an auction process here, right. You have so many
teams that are and I'll use the word and I
use it sparingly, but I think they're desperate. I think
the Vikings are desperate, The Broncos are most certainly desperate,
and I think I put the Raiders in that category
two where you might get more than what the past dictate,
just because these teams are going to keep trying to,
you know, one up each other, you keep putting the

(52:30):
auction sign up because they know they need a guy
at that position so badly, right.

Speaker 11 (52:35):
And the Chargers are going to have leverage, right because
they don't need a quarterback, so they're not in that
in that desperation mode at all. And in a certain
way like it's a win win scenario, right, you move
down your crew additional picks and you have a better
opportunity to add more for all these needs you that
you have, or you stay at five and you address

(52:56):
what is like a very big need at either receiver,
you know, maybe tackle for me, it's one of these
receivers you moved on from your top two receivers. So
either way, you're you're getting a really good player and
you're fitting a need. And so the Chargers can sit
there and be like, listen, we're not gonna move off
of five. We're not gonna give up the opportunity to
draft one of these receivers unless we get a return.

(53:17):
And like you said, some of these teams that are
moving up, particularly for quarterbacks, might be willing to, you know,
depart with the future first to make that happen and
get their quarterback of the future. So I think the
Chargers are positioned pretty well here.

Speaker 1 (53:29):
And the Chargers are on the clock with the fifth
pick of the twenty twenty four Giants total mock draft,
the Los Angeles Chargers trade or select.

Speaker 11 (53:37):
They select Malik Neighbors, wide receiver out of LSU. I'm
gonna I'm always gonna consider the trade down right, and
especially in the Vikings case, picking up that additional first
at twenty three overall, if that's the package they get,
is obviously going to be very intriguing. But the Chargers
need receiver talent like and I don't I know that
they've talked about Jim Harbonugh and Gjoritiz have talked about,

(53:59):
you know, wanting to run the football, but the receiver
room is really thin. I mean, the only really established
pro they have is Joshua Palmer. Quentin Johnson was a
first round pick last year, but he had a really
rough rookie year. After that, You're talking about a return
man in Darius Davis. They could potentially shop in the
free agent market, but the opportunity here to get a
player like Milik Neighbors is just too good for me
to pass up. He's the type of explosive threat that

(54:23):
the Chargers just have not had. The long speed, the
deception and the route running, the hands yards after catch,
all of it I think just fits perfectly with what
the Chargers need. And so you know, to me, like,
I'm taking the best player available here, that's Milik Neighbors,
And it just so happens to align with the biggest
need on the roster.

Speaker 1 (54:39):
In my opinion, your wide receiver tackle debate, is this
more about you just like Neighbors better than Alt as
a player, or is it also you feel better about
Trey Pipkins out there at right tackle then you do
about what they're growing out there at wide receiver.

Speaker 11 (54:52):
Yeah, it's a combination. It's more so that I'm just
looking at who's the best player to me, and Elik
Neighbors is a better player than Joe Alt. I think
Joe Alf's good, like I think he's gonna be a
good pro. Obviously. The athleticism is off the charts, the size,
he's got great feet, like the stuff that he does
in the in the run game. You know they're pulling
him from left tackle to the right side and he's
executing blocks over there very consistently. I love all of that.

(55:15):
My issue with all is the anchor is not what
I would want out of like a top five and
so like, you know, what I watch is like Chargers film,
and what I see is Klimax Bull Rush, and I'm
watching Joe Alton. I'm like, what's gonna happen on the
first play? Of the game. If they get, you know,
one of these elite edge rushers, they're gonna bull rush
you right away, and they're gonna see if you're up

(55:35):
for it, and if you don't have the anchor, they're
gonna keep coming at you with that move for the
rest of the game. I've seen Cliol mac bull rush
some of the best tackles in the league, including Tyron Smith.
So that's my reservation. I'm not saying he's not gonna
be a good player. But when I'm comparing Elik Neighbors
to Joe All, I'm seeing Elik Neighbors, who I project
as being like a true number one guy, take the
top off the defense, like like true difference maker. All.

(55:57):
I just have some concerns and so that that's sort
of my calculate. And then again, like what you mentioned,
the other combination of this is that the offensive line
is I think in better shape than a lot of
people on the outside think. Trey Pipkins to me is
like a mid level starter, Like he's not an All
Pro Pro Bowl type guy, but he's functional out there,
Like it's not like he's a turnstile out there, and
so you can sort of piece us together, and the

(56:18):
Chargers certainly think that they're gonna get more out of
these players. That's the whole reason you go get Jim Harbase,
that you're gonna elevate all of these guys. And so
it's a combination of all those things. More so, though
Moleikue Neighbors to me is a better prospect than Joe
Alt comparison, you know, comparing them one to one.

Speaker 1 (56:33):
No, And I have a new agree with you on that.
And it's funny you talking about Max Bulrosh is like
me watching these two hundred and ninety five pounds centers
and just watching Dexter Lawrence plow undersized centers into the backfield,
and that's all I can see. I can't unsee that now,
which is why Jackson power Johnson. I love him to
death because he's actually a three hundred and twenty five
pounds center. You just don't have those in the NFL anymore.

Speaker 11 (56:51):
It's funny, right, right, right, So like that's that's the
you know, you think back to that and you're like, okay,
like you love all of the positive traits, Like I
think Alt's gonna be like a really good run blocker
in the league. But when you're taking a tackle in
the top five, Like, you got to prioritize pass protection
and regardless of what you want your offensive vision to be,
the number one goal here is protecting Justin Herbert. He's

(57:13):
been injured the last two seasons, you know, between the
fractured rib cartilage and then the broken index finger, Like
you got to protect him. And so like, if you're
gonna spend a premium pick, I want a guy that
I'm really confident is gonna be able to match up
with some of these edge rushers in the NFL Final.

Speaker 1 (57:27):
Question, Daniel, this is on play style because I think
everyone just assumes that, oh, Jim Harbaugh is gonna run
it like you did in Michigan a million times. You
go back like he had talent Kaepernick throwing the ball
over the place in San Francisco. It's not like they
didn't like throw the ball down there when when Kaepernick
was their quarterback for a few years. Do you think
this is gonna be as run heavy as a lot
of people think, or do you think he's gonna realize,
wait a second, I have Justin Herbert. He's pretty awesome.

(57:49):
I'm gonna throw the ball more than maybe some people
think I'm going to.

Speaker 11 (57:52):
Yeah, my sense is it's gonna be run heavy, Like
I think that's that's the vision here. The vision is
that Justin Herbert has never had a good running game.
What does he look like when he has a reliable
running game? And like it goes to sort of the
broader idea of what they want the identity of the team,
the organization to be, Like they won't want to be physical,
they want to be rough, tough, rugged, violent, like all

(58:14):
of those types of things. In order to be that
type of team, you got to come out and you
got to be able to run the football. And so like,
is it the right path? I don't know. I'm not
getting paid enough money to make that decision. I just
will analyze it. To me, the way I would build
it is try and get the absolute most out of
Justin Herbert, because if he's playing an MVP level, I
feel like I can win a Super Bowl. But the
Harbaugh idea of playing football is being that type of

(58:35):
physical team. You bring in Greg Roman, one of the
best run schemers in recent NFL history, and that's the idea.
Pair it up that way and then see what that
does for Justin Herbert and we'll see if it actually works.

Speaker 1 (58:46):
So you think this would be the first Ortiz Harbaugh
Jim Harbaugh kind of pressure point in the relationship where
Tea says, well, we think neighbors is the best player,
and Jim harbosta in there, well, I want an offensive lineman.
I think that could be interesting to see how that
dynamic works between the two. This is what the debate
kind of comes down to.

Speaker 11 (59:02):
Yeah, it reminds me of I'm a big Survivor fan,
So you know, like if you have like a tribe
that hasn't voted yet, you don't know where where the
lines fall as far as like whose allegiances to who?
This is what it feels like right now, Like you
have no idea like where they want to go, what
they're prioritizing. It is a wild card as far as like, well,
what's the strategy here and compare it to like, you know,

(59:23):
Tom Telesco, the previous GM was here for eleven years.
I used to have eleven, like you know, decade of
data to look at to be like, Okay, this is
what he prioritizes, this is the positional value, this is
the type of player he wants you can go back
and look at some Ravens drafts, But the last time
Jim Harbaugh draft in the NFL was ten years ago.
You know, so, like there is a lot of uncertainty here,
a lot of unknown and party lines you know will

(59:44):
be drawn to, you know, bring it to the survivor analogy.

Speaker 1 (59:47):
Have they said who has final say on the draft?

Speaker 5 (59:50):
Pick?

Speaker 1 (59:50):
Is it Harbor is at Ortis?

Speaker 11 (59:51):
I've asked a million times. I've asked like ten different people.
The answer I always get is if you know, if
they're disagreeing to the point where somebody needs to have
final say, then they have bigger problems than that. So
you know, effectively its ownership. You know, Dean Spanos is
the owner. His son John Spanos is the president of
football operations. Like in reality, he has final say. And

(01:00:14):
that's sort of the best way to answer that question.
But I think we're gonna find out a lot here
with this draft, like whose vision is really driving it forward?
Because you talk about where Horties came from in Baltimore,
that's best player available, that's the Ozzie Newsom school of drafting.
Talk about Kyle Hamilton, right, they drafted Kyle Hamilton after
they played Marcus Williams in seventy million dollars in free agency,
but he was the best player on their board. So

(01:00:36):
that's like, you know, if you're looking at it, you know,
Malik Nighbors is probably gonna be the best player available there.
If it falls like like your mock draft has fallen,
is it a best player available thing? Or is Harbar
really driving this ship? And you know, do they go
trade down offensive lineman or even offensive lineman at five?
It's gonna be Faine.

Speaker 1 (01:00:51):
Can can wait to find out. Daniel, Tell the folks
where they can find your great story on the trade
scenarios and everything else you're writing about the Chargers.

Speaker 11 (01:00:57):
Yeah, everything on the Athletic dot Com slash teams Chargers
And you can follow me on Twitter at Daniel R.
Popper and read all my draft coverage there.

Speaker 1 (01:01:04):
Number folks, And if you subscribe you get the Beast
from Dame Brewler for free as well. And there's a
lot of deals out there all the time to make
sure you go and do that. Daniel, thanks so much
of the time, man, We appreciate it. New York is
always my friend.

Speaker 11 (01:01:14):
Thanks for having me.

Speaker 1 (01:01:15):
Giant fans love a winner. It's why they love Citizens
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by who else the banker. As the official bank of
the Giants and sponsor of the huddle, Citizens has made
ready for fans of Big Blue. Learn more at citizensbank
dot com. We go from zoom to live in person
and we're joined by Tom Rock, who covers the NFL
written large for Newsday. Tom, we've been chairing a while. Man,

(01:01:37):
I worry you, John.

Speaker 8 (01:01:38):
I'm doing okay. I'm doing okay. It's you know, It's
been a long off season, but we're ready to get
back into things with the draft next week.

Speaker 1 (01:01:44):
Yeah, this is kind of like the unofficial, kind of
start of the twenty twenty four grime. We have OTAs
in a couple of weeks, rookie mini caamp. We're gonna
see each other all lot more oft than everyone's gonna
be around. It's gonna be fun. So just to recap
where we are, this is our reporter mock draft. If
you're just tuning in for the Giants Bank. We have
reporter for each team make a selection for their team
up to the Giants at six. I did give each
reporter an opportunity to make a trade if they desired.

(01:02:07):
They all decline they wanted to make their selection. So
we'll see if this how If this is how it
goes on draft night, Tom and I will talk about that. So,
just to recap, Caleb Williams number one to the Bears,
Jade and Daniel's number two to the Commanders. The Patriots
select out of North Carolina, Drake May, the fourth back,
Marvin Harrison, Thank you, Tom, the Arizona Cardinals, and then

(01:02:28):
the fifth bake the LA Chargers.

Speaker 11 (01:02:29):
With a little bit.

Speaker 1 (01:02:30):
I think of a detour that maybe some people did
not expect. Eliitue Neighbors the wide receiver out of LSU. Tom,
what are your thoughts here on the first five picks?
Are you surprised that we haven't seen any movement?

Speaker 5 (01:02:43):
Yeah?

Speaker 8 (01:02:43):
I mean the lack of a trade here is what
really jumps out, because really, I really think somebody's gonna
have to jump up there and get a quarterback three four.
You know, maybe it might be the Giants, maybe it's
be somebody else.

Speaker 1 (01:02:55):
Chargers too. I mean, I can let Jim Harbon knows's
college players, so well, he's gonna want and for a
roster that's a mess. He's gonna want as many picks
as possible.

Speaker 8 (01:03:02):
I think, so, I think, and unless unless Harrison is
there for him, I think at five, then he'll My
guess is that he that he trades, he trades back there.
Uh yeah, I mean that Uh listen, you know is
Caleb Williams William's gonna go to Chicago?

Speaker 2 (01:03:15):
Yeah?

Speaker 8 (01:03:15):
Yeah, yeah, I mean, you know, the picks. The picks
makes sense, And honestly, I think this is a pretty
good ideal draft situation for the Giants because then basically
basically you're looking at do you want JJ McCarthy or
do you want Roe mcdoonza.

Speaker 1 (01:03:32):
The only thing that would be more ideal, I guess
is if, at least from my opinion the way I
look at the players, if the Patriots preferred McCarthy to
May and May was sitting there at six.

Speaker 8 (01:03:40):
Well we'll get we'll get into that a little bit
about what what the Giants should do, because I think
that I think there's a lot of lessons from twenty
years ago when we were right here and the Giants
made that big move in the two thousand and four draft,
and I think I think that there are a lot
of a lot of echoes when you look at this

(01:04:02):
draft situation where you had a team that had a
quarterback that was good, and they saw an opportunity to
go out and spend some money and spend some capital
rather and find a quarterback that could really change the franchise.
And that's what they did in two thousand and four.
It went out and obviously made the trade with the

(01:04:23):
Chargers for Eli Manning, and the rest is history. The
next decade and a half was history.

Speaker 1 (01:04:28):
Yeah, what this comes down to me, Tom, It's not
even at this point an evaluation of Daniel Jones. For me,
it's what you think of the quarterbacks that are available
to you.

Speaker 5 (01:04:37):
Right.

Speaker 1 (01:04:37):
If you think one of these guys can be your
Eli Manning to your point, right, that can win Super Bowls,
be your quarterback for fifteen years, make Pro Bowls, be
an All Pro, potentially be a Hall of Famer, then
you decide whether or not you want to make a move.
This is not just oh, we need another quarterback, let's
just pick one. You have to have the right evaluation
on these guys. And I think, frankly, the Gjohnts done
a really good job of not letting anyone know what

(01:04:59):
they really do. You think of all these guys, I.

Speaker 8 (01:05:01):
Think that I think first of all, the amount of
resources that they've put into investigating these quarterbacks tells you
that they're at least open to the idea. Right, So,
so this isn't This isn't some smoke screen that they're
drotten out there. They didn't have they didn't have Easter
dinner with JJ McCarthy because they wanted other people to
think that they're drafting a quarterback. That's that's that's not
what this is this And it.

Speaker 1 (01:05:21):
Wasn't just a really nice racklam.

Speaker 8 (01:05:23):
Yeah, yeah, well if they weren't, if they wanted that,
they probably would wouldn't have gone a Michigan. But you
know this, this is not this is not just an exercise.
And the one thing we've learned about Joe Shane over
over the last few years is that he keeps things
very quiet. I mean, I can't even tell you what
one hundred percent accuracy who they drafted last year. That's
that's how that's how tight tight Joe Shane keeps these things.

(01:05:47):
You know, I don't know that that he knows who
he who he's going to draft. YEP. A lot of
it obviously has to happen. Uh with with with how
this play that plays out. You know, Daniel Jeremiah from
NFL Network is about plugged in as you can get right.
Yesterday was throwing out ideas that the Giants may draft
an offensive lineman.

Speaker 1 (01:06:05):
I saw that.

Speaker 8 (01:06:06):
I mean, that's how little people actually know about what
what the what the Giants are thinking right now? So, uh,
you know, to put yourself in his shoes and and
to say, oh, this is what I'm hearing he's thinking.
You know, those are all those those are all conjectures
and and and they don't really help. We'll we'll know
a week from now what he thinks because by his actions,

(01:06:27):
just as we knew we know from his actions that
they're at least interested in the quarterbacks because of the
resources that they spent. It's the actions that are going
to speak volumes for for Joshing.

Speaker 1 (01:06:38):
Yeah, and look, if you get it right, you really
can't pay too much, right if you if you get
the right guy, there's like, there's no price you could
put on the Texans getting CJS drave last year. They
would trade four first round picks to get that guy.
And he was that good, right, absolutely, So then the
question is what's your price point in regard to the

(01:06:59):
inherent risk is? Frankly, right now, the NFL is still
pretty bad at evaluating first round quarterbacks. You're looking at
a fifty to fifty type of coin flip situation. So
what do you think the price would be to go
up to three? If the Patriots said the move, maybe
you have some insight whether you think they will or four?
Are we looking at next year's one?

Speaker 5 (01:07:16):
Right? Well?

Speaker 8 (01:07:17):
So Elliott Wolf was just on he had his press
conference this morning.

Speaker 1 (01:07:23):
Oh I didn't see that.

Speaker 8 (01:07:23):
Did he open for business? He said, they need they
need a lot, they have a lot of holes to fill.
They're they're open for business. So to me, to me,
that's intriguing obviously for the Giants. It's more intriguing for
the for the other quarterback needy teams.

Speaker 1 (01:07:35):
The Vikings, the Raiders and Roncos.

Speaker 8 (01:07:38):
Roncos, everybody, everybody wants to go go up to that spot. Uh.
And if if I'm the Giants and and somebody wants
to move up there and and draft Drake, may go ahead.
You know, I think if they if they like, if
they like McCarthy, McCarthy obviously has a lot of upside, right, Uh,
he's young, he's he's sort of raw. Uh, he can

(01:08:01):
sit for a year and you're not gonna feel a
lot of pressure to put him on the field right away, because,
let's face it, Daniel's not going anywhere with this coming season,
and he played an NFL environment, played in an NFL environment.
He gets a year of Brian Dabele whispering in his
year and going over film and and and sort of
grooming him to be to be an NFL quarterback. So
that's so that's the positive. Drake May comes in. Now

(01:08:23):
you're talking about a little bit of a different dynamic,
right because Drake May comes in, You trade up to
number three to get Drake May, which is probably the
only way that that happens for the Giants.

Speaker 1 (01:08:33):
I would think that's probably true.

Speaker 8 (01:08:35):
I think you're you can't really let him sit the
whole the whole.

Speaker 1 (01:08:39):
Season, maybe not the whole year, but I think you
can start a Yeah, you talk about McCarthy, Drake May's
only played two years. Also, he's a rich sophomore. He's
just I think if you look at games played him
McCarthy are probably very very similar.

Speaker 8 (01:08:52):
Yeah, but I still think that that May is is
a little bit more polished, and I think he's he's
a little bit more ready, and I think he's a
little bit more of what the what's he's a little
bit more apt to fit into what the giants are
doing right now. Well, if it's kind of that Josh Allen, Yes, yeah, yeah,
And he's he's a little bit more of a I

(01:09:12):
don't want to say magician, but he makes something out
of nothing, right, So if you look at the Giants'
roster right now, you're gonna need a lot of that.
You're gonna need a lot of something out of nothing's
and for him to be able to do that, it
would be a little more unfair that, I think, to
put McCarthy in that situation than it would be to

(01:09:33):
throw Drake May in there and say, oh, let let's
let's see what the kids got if we're two and
six or two and seven or whatever, you know, doomsday
scenario I could come up with.

Speaker 1 (01:09:43):
Now, we are not in this situation, but we wanted
to address it because you thought it was a possibility
of a trade up. That situation is not what we're
looking at right now. So I think that's your evaluation there, Tom.
Now we're sitting here at number six. Did it break
your heart to see Neighbors go off the board right
before you or do you not seem much of a
difference between him and a Dunez.

Speaker 5 (01:10:02):
No.

Speaker 8 (01:10:02):
I think they're I think they're pretty pretty paralleled. I
think I was a little surprised that the Chargers, uh uh,
didn't the Chargers pick was Neighbors over over a Dunsa,
I think, or all for that matter. Yeah, yeah, well,
and and I think we were just talking before too,
that the Chargers if if this, if this plays out

(01:10:22):
the way it is and it's not Harrison is there,
if Harrison is not there, which Harrison went to the Cardinals,
that the Chargers would probably trade back. Uh, and and
and somebody else would would jump up there and take
a wide receiver, uh or maybe or maybe jump up
there and take take a quarterback. And McCarthy if if
he's the if he's the fourth one. But yeah, I mean,

(01:10:43):
Neighbors are Dunza. I think they're both number one receivers.
I think you know it's gonna be you know, if
you when you look back at this four years from now,
we're gonna you're gonna look at those three receivers and
you're gonna say, well, maybe they maybe they're one, two
and three, maybe they're two, one, three, you know, but
but they're all none. None of them are. I don't
think have bust written on them. And I don't think
any either team is going to regret taking either of

(01:11:05):
those three.

Speaker 1 (01:11:06):
I'm with you, and I think there's no doubt for
me that And again we'll push quarterback aside for a second.
We'll circle back around with McCarthy that in terms of
overall need, I don't think there's a bigger I mean,
I think if you want this offense to function with
the loss of Saquon Barkley Waller's future still up in
the air, Tom, those are the team's two best offensive
weapons heading into last year. Yeah, they're gone. So I

(01:11:28):
really feel like there's a need here to get a
center piece of the offense that other teams have the
game plan against, because right now the Giants have a
bunch of guys that are good players, but no one
that can really bring an offense and be the focus
of an offense and bring it all together.

Speaker 5 (01:11:41):
Yeah.

Speaker 8 (01:11:41):
I agree that that they're they're really lacking the dynamic
playmaker and losing Saquon obviously was a big hit in
that in that regard, and Waller would have would have
been helpful if if he if he does show up,
maybe he will, maybe he won't. I think I think
every day that passes that he's not years is another
another inch towards him not coming back, right, you have

(01:12:05):
to think, uh so, so we'll see, We'll see how
that works out. Yeah, I mean they don't. I was
looking through the through the offensive depth charge the other day.
There's one player that I circled that I said, that's
the guy that they probably won't upgrade and possibly replace
for the twenty twenty five start of the season. It's
Andrew Thomas. I mean, everybody else is.

Speaker 1 (01:12:26):
And you would hope John Michael Schmidz is one of
those guys, but he could. But you aren't there yet.

Speaker 8 (01:12:30):
I'm not I'm not not completely sold on that yet
with you. I think there's a couple of other guys
that that could be uh you know, could be nice
players for them. But I think that I think everybody
else is upgradeable and Brian.

Speaker 1 (01:12:45):
They would be an offensive mind the head coach if
trust me, I don't know this, but I'd be shocked
if he wasn't there talking to Joe Shane like, dude,
I need weapons here, Yeah, to work my offense.

Speaker 8 (01:12:54):
Right right now. But then you say, okay, well are
there weapons? Are there good enough weapons? Later in the
draft the question at wide receiver, everybody talks about how
deep this wide receiver class is. Are there guys are
the hidden gems in the second and third round that
that could come in and be what maybe a first
round pick two or the last two or three years

(01:13:16):
would have been.

Speaker 1 (01:13:16):
The way I've talked about this time is that there
are guys in rounds two and two you can get
that'll help you, but the guy is gonna be hard
to find. Might one of those guys in the second
or third round or two become sure, But you got
to hit out of the fifteen guys you could pick from,
you got to hit that one guy. That's a lot tougher.
It's a lot easier, I think. And if you look
at the history of the last couple drafts, if you're

(01:13:38):
picking a receiver in the top ten, top eleven, your
hit rate's pretty darn high in recent history.

Speaker 8 (01:13:44):
Yeah, I mean why receive wide receiver is one of
the one of the few positions right now. I think
that translates from college to the to.

Speaker 1 (01:13:50):
The NFL pretty quickly.

Speaker 8 (01:13:51):
For that.

Speaker 1 (01:13:52):
Yeah, yeah, I'm with you. Any other position players besides
quarterback or even just general positions that you would be
considered here at six for the job.

Speaker 8 (01:14:01):
I mean, I don't see a lot of defensive players
that are that are that good, you know at six.
Offensive line, you know, it's all there. I'm not I'm
not seeing the give up yet on on Evan Neil.

Speaker 1 (01:14:13):
Yeah. And they threw so many numbers at the problem
in range and they brought in just you know, Stinny
running shot man. There's so many guys they brought in.
They've at least I think that a good job of
preventing what happened last year where you were in Week
three and you're pulling guys off the street and justin Peele.
I think they've done a good job of a winning
that situation. So I'm with you.

Speaker 8 (01:14:34):
Yeah, I think I think offensive line is actually pretty
deep right now. I don't know about how good they are,
but they're pretty deep. And I would say in terms
of the triage that they were in a month into
the season last year, they are stable right now. I
agree so uh and and listen, you know, there's there's

(01:14:54):
no perfect offensive line in the NFL. It's all about
how how you deal with it, which gets us back to,
of course the quarterbacks.

Speaker 1 (01:15:02):
And lets and let's get to that, because I think
I'm with you. I think the decision and you kind
of mentioned this, I think in your first answer is
roma and he brought Bowers consideration.

Speaker 8 (01:15:10):
For you maybe maybe for a minute.

Speaker 1 (01:15:13):
But not really. Maybe if you move down a couple
of spots, Yeah, would you consider moving down it all
by the way.

Speaker 8 (01:15:18):
That I mean that that could be a possibility.

Speaker 1 (01:15:21):
Its quarterback.

Speaker 8 (01:15:23):
I gotta know, you gotta you gotta know how they
feel about JJ.

Speaker 1 (01:15:27):
Right, and and that's really what you gotta know how
convers how that.

Speaker 8 (01:15:30):
Lamb was at Easter, you know, and and and that's
that's really that's really what it comes down to is
did they have their do they have their hearts set
on in terms of this mock draft and the way
that this is this has worked out. If they're if
they think, if they like McCarthy, this is a this
is a perfect situation for the Giants. You could get your.

Speaker 1 (01:15:49):
Guide if they like them, And that's the question. If
they like, that's the if, and you know what, they
might like them, but they might not like And I'll
use the high school phraseology, do you like them? Like
them or do you like them? You know? And there's
a difference there, right, there's definitely, especially when you're picking
at six and you what I would consider a very
safe pick in roma doonsdays staring at your face at

(01:16:10):
a position that's a premium position, one that you need.
Do you like McCarthy or do you like like McCarthy?

Speaker 8 (01:16:17):
I think that it's easier to get a number one
wide receiver from another team as a veteran, as a
proven guy might have to trade through trade, yes, yes, absolutely,
but those guys move. Those guys move, they switch teams. Now,
we've seen it and we're seeing it now, and it's

(01:16:40):
you need a quarterback in the league, John, you need
a quarterback. Daniel Jones is a good quarterback. And this
is the league right now where good good isn't good enough.

Speaker 1 (01:16:48):
All right, So with the six to overall pick in
the twenty twenty four Giantshuttle mock draft the New York
Giants via Tom Rock from Newsday Select.

Speaker 8 (01:16:55):
I think if I'm a GM right now, and I
don't have one of the top five quarterbacks in this league,
the top five guys who are m VP candidates, who
are gonna who have you on the verge of a championship?
And you know I'm talking about Mahomes, I'm talking about
Josh Allen. I'm talking about uh Lamar Jackson, Herbert Burrow,
you know.

Speaker 1 (01:17:17):
Maybe maybe still Aaron Rodgers.

Speaker 8 (01:17:19):
Well, yeah, Trevor Lawrence. Trevor Lawrence is like on the
CUSP right C J. Stroud. Let's see what he does
in the year two.

Speaker 1 (01:17:27):
Right put strouding kind of Jordan and that kind of.

Speaker 8 (01:17:30):
Ye ye yeah, category, they're on the verge.

Speaker 1 (01:17:32):
Herbert might be there too. I'm not sure if Herbert
has done enough to get in.

Speaker 5 (01:17:35):
I like it.

Speaker 8 (01:17:36):
I like Herbert a lot.

Speaker 1 (01:17:37):
I like Herbert a lot too, but we haven't seen
it yet. At least I means you want to play.
Has he want to postseason game yet?

Speaker 5 (01:17:43):
No?

Speaker 1 (01:17:44):
I don't think he has.

Speaker 8 (01:17:45):
Well, he's also had a pretty big knuckleheads head coach.

Speaker 1 (01:17:48):
Yeah, but to have to have a guy that's one
of those what I like to call mutants at the
quarterback position that even when everything around you starts going bad,
you can elevate everybody else. That's what every single team
and and there's still few of them, right, even a
team like the Cowboys with Dak Prescott, they don't know
he's like this eighth best quarterback in the league. They

(01:18:09):
don't know if he's the guy. Kirk Cousins is. No,
he's not quite there.

Speaker 8 (01:18:13):
I was just gonna say, I was gonna throw those
names out there, and Kirk Cousins is like the savior
in Atlanta, and he's he's he hasn't want anything, right,
Dak Prescott. I was looking through my list here of
guys who I consider good quarterbacks. Derek Carr, right, good quarterback?
What you can't you can't win with him? These guys
aren't you need? You need the elite quarterback. And if

(01:18:35):
I was like that conversation, I don't think has shown
anything yet right in that in that regard, in that
regardt you know, Stafford's wont to won a Super Bowl.
But Stafford was putting up amazing numbers for a bad,
bad Detroit team. So he's he's kind of a kind
of a weird anomaly there. Uh yeah, I mean, if
you don't have that guy, If I was a team
that didn't have that guy, I would be searching for

(01:18:58):
him every four years.

Speaker 1 (01:19:00):
Every chance you have, every chance you have, even if
you're not sure, you would still roll the dice.

Speaker 8 (01:19:05):
Absolutely absolutely, because you say, okay, So so you say, well,
let's build around Daniel Jones. How long is it gonna
take you to build from the ross that they have
right now to a team that Daniel Jones can contend
for a championship with. I mean he may be ready
to retire by the time. By the time that happens, right,
So you're it's kind of it's kind of a lost

(01:19:27):
a lost a lost resource. Yeah, no, you need a quarterback.
It's a quarterback league. You gotta you gotta keep swinging
until you find that guy.

Speaker 1 (01:19:34):
So I know the answer, but I'll do the dramatic
laying again. So with the sixth overall pick and the
Giants little twenty twenty four Monk Draft, the New York
Giants select.

Speaker 8 (01:19:42):
From the University of Michigan JJ McCarthy.

Speaker 1 (01:19:46):
There you have it, folks. I usually as follows, but
I think Tom and I hit every single angle of this.
Moving forward again, this will be the only question I
ask if they do have JJ McCarthy if he stays healthy.
Is there a chance in your mind, if he plays well,
that Daniel Jones could start every game in twenty twenty four.

Speaker 5 (01:19:59):
Sure?

Speaker 8 (01:20:00):
Yeah, I mean they talked about that with Alex Smith
and Patrick Mahomes when we were at the league meetings.
I think it was I forget if it was. If
it was Shane or Dable mentioned that, you know, that
was that was an ideal situation for for Mahomes to
spend that year doing that, and uh sure worked out
for them.

Speaker 1 (01:20:17):
It'd be a lot of fun of keeping the fans
in check after a couple of bad games with with
with with that, But yes, and I agree, I don't
think that's a bad thing to be honest with you,
And if you're playing well and Daniel's playing well, and
you have a stable environment around them and you're able
to kind of take the heat coming from the outside in,
I don't think that's a bad way to do.

Speaker 8 (01:20:34):
I'm remembering now the conversation where that came up, because
it was Joe Shane who talked about it, and he
said that was the plan for Josh Allen and his
rookie year too. And it lasted about a half because
they had just seen it after they were like, Okay,
throw the the kid in there and let's roll with him.

Speaker 1 (01:20:49):
Was that the sixth interception in a half performance by
I think Peter kids name, Yeah, I feel bad for
that kid. He still a punchline. Tom good stuff. Tell
the folks would think of that you're doing up to.

Speaker 8 (01:21:01):
News Day dot com is the only place to find
all my stuff, Kim Jones's stuff ally on his own,
who covers the Jets too. Newsday dot com is the
place to be.

Speaker 1 (01:21:10):
Make sure you go check it out, folks. It's so
one of the great papers out there. It makes you
go check it out in newsday dot com. For Tom Rock,
for all of our reporters that did a fantastic job
making their picks, hope you enjoyed our annual Giants Huddle
Reporter mock draft. It was easy on me. I had
only six picks this year. Last week I went twenty three.
It wasn't It took me a week to do those.
It was a nightmare. So I don't like the bad record.

(01:21:30):
It's not fun covering the bad record. But this is
a benefit of the bad record for me. When you
get to April. For Tom Rock. I'm John shout that
you're joining us on the Giants Total Podcast, brought to
you by Citizens, the official Bank of the Giants. We'll
catch you next time. Everybody