Giants Huddle | Bryan Broaddus - Giants Huddle | New York Giants

Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
It's time to get inside the Giants huts. Let's go.

Speaker 2 (00:03):
Let's go Giants, Dont Giants, gim me some job.

Speaker 1 (00:07):
Part of the Giants Podcast Network, Let's roll.

Speaker 3 (00:10):
Welcome to the newest edition of the Giants Little Podcast,
brought to you by Citizens, the official bank of the
New York Football Giants. Well over the last couple of weeks, folks,
we've had a lot of fun interviews. We've interviewed former
NFL general managers like Thomas to Meet You from Randy Mueller.
We've talked to former Hall of Fame players like Kurt Warner.
We've talked to media scouts. But some days you just
want to get crusty. So I went out there and

(00:31):
I found that the oldest, crustiest scout that makes crusty
the crown Clown look fresh, and he is. Brian brought
his former NFL scout now host down in Dallas on radio,
and of course he's also part of the Dallas Cowboys
Draft show. Brian, We've done this a bunch of years
in a row. I really appreciate it. Are you like,

(00:51):
is this inside scouting? You still kind of getting the
tingles now that we're about a week away from the draft.

Speaker 2 (00:57):
Yeah, John, and thank you so much again for having me.
I feel always privileged and honored to be with you.
I have the utmost respect not only for the Giants organization,
but for you and the job that you do. So
to be on your platform it does mean a lot
to me. You don't take these for granted very often.
And I'm being really, really nice to you right now
because I do love being on with you. Did the

(01:20):
interactions that you and I have had over the years,
It's educated me. As we always talk about the draft show,
investigate and educate well, I think you do a great
job of educating your fans. So to be on with
you is a great privilege. Yeah. This when people ask
me what I miss most about the NFL, this is it.

(01:41):
This time of year, the putting together, the board, stacking
the board, the discussions, the information, the trading, the learning
about players. You know, if you and I were sitting
in a war room together and you were scouting the
Northeast and I was down in the Southeast, and your
percent players and I'm like, man, John truly got it

(02:02):
together on these Penn State kids. Now he's selling me
on these guys, man, they're better than my kids down
at LSU. They're better than my kids at Old Miss.
You know, this is where you learn. This is where
scouts in the building learn about the what's going on
in the area. You get so focused on your part
of the country and your region, and and this is

(02:23):
where you present. This is where you present for potentially
ownership like here in Dallas. You know, ownership being the
general manager. This is where you present to the head
coach who doesn't get out very much. This is where
you present to your other scouting buddies. And so this
is important. It's an important time of the year and

(02:43):
it's it's one of those things where this is the
best opportunity we're given every year to build your team.
And I'm really happy that a lot of these the scouts,
but the media scouts find it's very very important to
do a quality job of it.

Speaker 3 (03:00):
You find Brian on the Gbag Nation two to seven pm,
Money through Friday on one O five through the Fan
of course, I mentioned the Draft Show podcast, also the
Love of the Star podcast.

Speaker 1 (03:08):
Make sure you go check that out. And Brian, that's
what we're gonna do here today.

Speaker 3 (03:11):
You know, we've gone through you know, interviews with the
guys different questions, and I just want to kind of
go through some of these positions and see how we
have them stacked, compare our stacks, debate, maybe we can
convince each other or something. But before we get there,
something you've talked about in some of your programming this
offseason where I think is interesting is the role of
the scout in the meetings that are going up right
above my head, right here at the facility at the

(03:34):
Quest Diagnostia Training Center where the GM is in there
with all scouts, and now the coaches are involved too,
putting this final board together. Put yourself back in the
shoes of Brian brought us the scout. What is your
role in these meetings and.

Speaker 1 (03:47):
How do you have to.

Speaker 3 (03:49):
Massage what you say to make sure the group can
come to the right decision on all these players.

Speaker 2 (03:55):
Yeah, John, it's it's as I mentioned, it's such an
important time because you want to come to a consensus
as a group. You're not going to win every battle
that you fight.

Speaker 3 (04:08):
Uh.

Speaker 2 (04:08):
There's some scouts that go in with the attitude of
of like you, no, my guy's better than your guy.
That really doesn't work too well in a in a
in an NFL war room. In a draft room, you
have to put your ego aside. You have to be
able to know what battles to fight, when to back
up when, and you're not looking for group speak or

(04:31):
you know, but the consensus you need to have. There
are certain scouts that are really good evaluating certain positions.
I always held certain scouts And I'll give you example,
Mark Ross, who was with you guys way back in
the day. Uh. Mark and I for his first job
was with me in Philadelphia, Uh with you know when

(04:53):
uh when he got out of Princeton. And Mark was
a young scout, very brash, very bold, very you know,
very in your face kind of guy. But I respected
him for that. But we had some other scouts, like
with Dan Shanka, you know it was a guy Jay Collum.
We had these older veteran scouts. So you always have

(05:14):
this mix of young and old guys, which is really
really cool and to hear the perspective. But you have
to be able to understand who has certain strengths in
certain areas. If somebody speaks up about say they they've
got a really good run over the years of wide

(05:35):
receiver play and they've you know, every time they talk
about a wide receiver, it seems like, boy, they're on this,
they've got this down they understand. Or an offensive tackle
or a you know, a quarterback. You know, certain scouts
have these abilities. When they say something, you listen and
then you have to give it some priority. Okay, this

(05:56):
scout really liked this guy because of this, this scout
didn't like him so much. But this scout doesn't always
see it the right. So you have to be able
to as a general manager or somebody a primary decision
maker in the room, you have to be able to
balance out the scouts with the coaches, with the medical

(06:16):
All these things play a big role in how you
proceed to put together your board and your stack, because
you get to that stack. And when I talk about
the stack for folks, the way I did it in
Green Bay and other places Philadelphia when I ran the
draft there is you put players from say how many
names you have on your board one to say one

(06:36):
p fifty. You put those guys in order, and you
try not to jump tags. What you do is that
tells you. That stack tells you how you would take
these players, and it you know, we've had all the
arguments to get the stacked together. So once that happens,
once that's put up, everybody knows the direction we're going

(06:57):
to go. That's our guy, that's our guy, that's our guy,
that's our guy. And as they start to come off
the board, then it gives you a clear picture of
where you need to go. But it's very important as
as the primary person in charge of the room to
be able to manage the scouts, manage the coaches, keep
everybody from getting completely mad at each other. You know,

(07:20):
coaches will come in and say things that the scouts don't.
You know. I had a scout one time look at
a coach and the coach said something about a player,
and scout looked at the coach and said, you don't
see me calling third down defenses, do you? And what
he was trying to say is, don't tell me how
to do my job. I'm not telling And then you

(07:40):
have to kind of maybe you take a break, maybe
you let everybody cool off a little bit, you know,
But there's there's discussions in these rooms. It's not always
just everybody's so nice and pleasant. But when you walk
out of that room, you still are a group, You
still are the organization. You're still the football Giants. You know,
you've got to keep you know, take the ego out
of it. But it's a it's a very very important

(08:03):
part of what the Giants, the Cowboys, the Commanders, the Eagles,
what they're gonna do this year to try and win
this division.

Speaker 3 (08:10):
And I'm gonna leave the quarterbacks for last, just because
I know we're gonna have a fun I know we're
gonna have a fun disagreement on at least one of
the players, which will be fun. Let's start with running back,
a position that I think has been forgotten a little
bit in the NFL, and I know both of us
are kind of knee deep in running back, you you know,
focusing on the Cowboys down there, they don't really have
a running back right now that they can roll out
there with it with any confidence to start. The Giants,

(08:31):
not Devin Singletary, but obviously the lost Sakuon Barkley and
Brian I'm sitting here, I'm staring at seven third round tags.

Speaker 1 (08:37):
On my board.

Speaker 3 (08:38):
I don't have anyone with a with a second round
grade myself, and I'll just give you my seven and
then we can kind of go back and forth Trey
Benson is my top guy I worry about even though
he's a good size and he's strong, he just hasn't
carried the loaded ton because he hasn't been asked to.

Speaker 1 (08:55):
Jonathan Brooks is my number two.

Speaker 3 (08:57):
Ray Davis, who I think is solid as a but
just doesn't have that one elite trait that pushes him
ahead of the other two guys, is my third guy.
I like Marshall Lloyd from USC just because I think
he's big. He's almost two hundred and twenty pounds wus
I think for a running back is important, but he
also is really good side to side quickness.

Speaker 1 (09:15):
I think his vision could use a little bit of work.

Speaker 3 (09:17):
And then my other three guys in that round. I
love will ship Ley out of Clemson. I think he's quick,
he's a really good receiver. I think he finds the
whole well. He's shifty, though again I don't think he's
a guy that can get more than twelve to fifteen
touches in a game. I like Alaudria Guestime out of
Notre Dame.

Speaker 1 (09:32):
Big guy.

Speaker 3 (09:33):
I think, more elusive than people think, and he's certainly
big enough to kind of be your go to back
in all sorts of situations.

Speaker 1 (09:41):
And then I like Blake Korum.

Speaker 3 (09:42):
I think he is a guy that can get the
ball seventeen eighteen times in a game just his short
area of quickness.

Speaker 1 (09:48):
And I like short running backs.

Speaker 3 (09:50):
I think they get lost behind the offensive line and
allows them to have a low center of gravity to
avoid big hits and have really good contact balance.

Speaker 1 (09:58):
So those are my third round guy.

Speaker 3 (10:00):
Then I have a bunch of guys with with fourth
round grade too that aren't quite far behind them. To
be totally honest with you, but those are my seven
that have with straight up threes.

Speaker 2 (10:08):
Yeah, I've got actually a couple of second round backs
and I've got Brooks and Benson Flint, but they're both
second round guys on my board. And the thing that
I love about Brooks out of Texas is the ability
to run. I think he's a three down back. The
running aspect to him. I think he catches the ball
extremely well, the vision, the ability to make cuts. I've

(10:31):
seen him make several jump cuts, lateral cuts. I think
he's got an elusive trait to his game. You start
to talk about outside zone runs, I mean he'll press
that edge hard and then cut the ball back, so
you know, you could see him make those types of cuts.
I think he's got the ability to be a home
run hitter. I love the way he finishes runs. Now,

(10:51):
the problem with Brooks is he suffered an ACL injury
against TCU in November. The Cowboys doctor Dan Cooper the surgery,
and so if the Cowboys are looking at him, which
I believe they are, they have a really good understanding
of what Brooks and what he's potentially what his outlook

(11:12):
is after doctor Cooper with the surgery and stuff like that,
and what he was able to do, and they feel
like that maybe that he'll be back and ready to
go for training camp. The thing about Benson I think
is interesting is he kind of scoots along the grass.
He's kind of a you know, you don't see a
lot of high knee action type of a runner, but
those feet stay really low to the ground. I think

(11:34):
he creates a lot of big plays with the ball
in his hands, the ability to make defenders miss in
the open field. I think he's a patient runner. He
plays with burst. He's got speed. He can really cover
some ground once he gets going, and when he makes
that first guy miss, if there's penetration. You know, he
can make that guy. He can make a miss if
there's that penetration that guys talking about. But he's also

(11:55):
got the power to run through arm tacklers and bounce
off defenders, and he catches the ball very well. So
that's kind of why you know, I would have Brooks
and Benson, those two guys. That sounds like a country
western duo and Benson, but but that's how that I
would see. I really do like what you're saying about.
You know, the young man from USC that to me

(12:18):
when you when you look at you know how how
he plays. And and Lloyd he's he's one of those
guys that he transferred from South Carolina. He had a
tour acl in twenty twenty. But he's got explosive trades.
He mentioned him. He's five nineties, two hundred and twenty pounds.
The burst, the acceleration, he can get to the whole

(12:39):
to and through in a hurry. He can bounce it
outside without any issues, and he could really kick it
into top gear instantly. I think he's got the speed
to break away get finished long runs. I've seen opponents
have the angles on him and he'll just outrun them,
and so second and third guy miss. You know, there's
some wiggle and ability to adjust on the move, And

(12:59):
I really do you like the player a lot. I
tend to also the other players I have. I like,
we just talking about Ray Davis. I've got Davis behind
right from Tennessee, Allan from Oregon, and then a me
Allen from Wisconsin, and Irving from Oregon. So those are

(13:21):
kind of in the order of the guys that how
I would have them. But I like what you've done
with Benson, Brooks and Lloyd. I think those guys are
really good players. The Blake Kormwin is fascinating to me.
Maybe I've seen it a little bit because of Ezekiel
Elliott here being with the Cowboys. Is the number of
carries a guy's hat in his career and is that

(13:43):
going to be a factor in them playing down the road.

Speaker 3 (13:47):
That's also a Shipley thing too, by the way, it.

Speaker 2 (13:50):
Is a Shipley thing. And Shipley, as you mentioned, is
a really good football player. He catches it very well.
He can make people miss, but he's played a ton
of snaps as a running back. So I think that
I'm kind of mindful about that when I'm looking at these.

Speaker 1 (14:07):
Backs, Jalen Wright, I think is interesting. You brought him
up briefly.

Speaker 3 (14:11):
Yeah, I And I wasn't high in this player last
year either, and I was made to look foolish about.

Speaker 1 (14:16):
I wasn't a big Devon E Chang guy last year.

Speaker 2 (14:18):
Right.

Speaker 3 (14:19):
I just didn't see like the complete back to me.
But he's just such good, straight ahead speed and maybe
that's why I'm right with kind of he's He's actually
the eighth guy on my list. He is that cheap
third round, fourth round grade. I just don't aside from
the big play here or there, I just don't know
if I see that that other stuff where he can
be my down and down out back, you know what
I mean?

Speaker 2 (14:39):
Right? You know the thing that I liked about, right
is the finish. I think there's I think this guy,
and you mentioned a chan E Chain had the ability
to score from anywhere on the field, and I'm not
staying it, right is that guy, But I do feel
like that he he's got that kind of potential to

(15:02):
be able to do that. And when you have that
ability to score from anywhere, But he also is really tough.
I've seen him run where he puts his head down
and just plows forward if things get clogged up. So
the power to gain yards when there's none. Seeing him
burst through several arm tacklers, but he's not going to
give you a clean shot on him in the open field. Again,

(15:23):
catch in the ball. I think that's so important, John,
you understand that, you understand how this league is. As
a back, you've got to be able to have some
screen game ability. You've got to be able to maybe
run some routes where they can throw it to you
and you can make some make some yards after catch.
The thing that I really liked about right is I
thought he was a solid pass protector, you know. I mean,

(15:44):
he's going to take guys on square, he's going to
keep his man off the quarterback, natural playmaker. So those
complete traits and games. I kind of like Jalen Right
out of Tennessee for those reasons.

Speaker 3 (15:55):
So what to get your take on two of the
running backs guys that I probably like more than other people.
I'm a big Isaiah out of South Dakota State. Yeah
he's not he's not flashy, but if you want a
guy that's gonna grind out yards between the tackles, he's
your guy and then a guy.

Speaker 1 (16:08):
It's funny.

Speaker 3 (16:08):
I don't know if I've ever seen a running back
quite this raw before, But you watched Tyrone Tracy play.
The guy's at Tasmanian devil. He runs, he's spinning, his
arms and knees are all over the place.

Speaker 1 (16:20):
You could tell he's.

Speaker 3 (16:21):
Just learning how to play running back. But you look
at a lot of the underlying metrics he's breaking. The
broken tackle rate is great, and yards after contact stuff
is great.

Speaker 1 (16:29):
But my god, this guy, he it looks like you.

Speaker 3 (16:32):
I just got the kid at the playground that's never
played football before, but you could tell he's a good athlete.
You put him on your team and just give him
the ball and tell him to go. That's what he
looks like like as a running back.

Speaker 2 (16:41):
Yeah, five eleven and two hundred and nine pounds. I
went back and watched him play at Iowa as a
wide receiver, and I WOA used him more as that
wide receiver type of guy than a running back. When
you really dig in the one year per Due, you
mentioned the metric The time speed at four four eight

(17:02):
is good, but you don't always see him play that fast.
The explosive numbers are as vertical at forty inches, the
short shuttle at four to one eight. It's it's funny
that sometimes he doesn't play this way, but he does
have power and you can hand in the ball in
various ways. You know. The strength in his game might

(17:22):
be as a receiver. You know, he's strong handed, he
tracks the ball, he's competitive, he's reliable when you put
the ball in his hands. He can make plays in traffic,
he can make plays down the field. He's got some
red zone versatility to his game. He's comfortable wherever he's aligned.
The toughness to finish the concern is, like I said,
the testing numbers don't always show up in the play,

(17:45):
but you have to acknowledge that they're there. So my
last line of my notes would be, say draft and
figure out ways to use him. Right, five eleven, two
oh nine. This guy has traits that you would like
to have in a running that can also help you
in the receiving game. Yeah.

Speaker 3 (18:03):
Maybe that's maybe kick return as well, right with the
new kicker in the new rules. Yeah, yeah, he's a
guy that get fitting there too. All right, let's jump
to wide receiver. Reinald'll spend a ton of time on
these top three guys. Brian Becas, We've talked about him
a bunch. I haved Harrison with neighbors just a tick
below him, and then a Dounsa still like a top
ten caliber player, but you know, a little bit further
away from neighbors than neighbors is to Harrison. I just

(18:26):
think they I think, first of all, I think Marvin Harrison,
for guy that size, he's a six to four guy
that runs like he's six foot and he's so polished
as a route runner, and he's so big. I think
it's really that simple. Neighbors are just super explosive. And
then a Douns doesn't have a weakness, you know, I don't.
I don't see that, you know. Besides, they can test
to catch stuff which is off the charts good. I
don't see that ridiculous athletic trink for him that I love.

(18:48):
I think in some of the man on man coverage
there's not a lot of separation, but there's enough separation
for him giving his size and strength to make the play.
But that's kind of have all those three guys stacked up,
and all three if I'm in the top ten, I'd
be happy to walk away with any three of them.

Speaker 2 (19:04):
Yeah, a doonesay is man. I think he nailed it perfect.
I think he's one of the most confident wide receivers
in the country. I mean that the hands are outstanding,
the ability to catch in him. I mean he makes
big play after big play, super reliable. He's clutch, a
little bit of a long strider. He can cover some
ground when we're oute. He was a high school sprinter

(19:26):
and you see that at times with the ball in
his hands. The remarkable body control, the balance. The smaller,
the tighter the area, the more likely you're going to
see him coming down with the ball. I mean he's
got a feel for how to adjust. He makes reception
when it appears he has no shot, and big timer
outrunner as far as I was concerned. You go back

(19:48):
and you watch the game against Washington State and the
Apple Cup. It's fourth and one. What do they do
the handman ball in or reverse and it sets up
the game winning points. This guy plays at a very
very high level. I don't you said it. I don't
see many flaws in his game at all. I really
really don't. He's going to make somebody really really outstanding players.
The thing about neighbors. And this is I always have

(20:11):
to be careful about this because I with the school
at LSU. So you know when you start to talk
with some of these the quarterback and the receivers, that
they have this kid and I've seen them all. This
kid is when the Jeffersons and the chases and stuff
like that. This kid is as good as those guys are.

(20:32):
He is that good. And I mean he generates a
ton of speed. He's an outstanding or outrunner. He could
sell it with the best of them. He's a master
of the double move, the stutter go. He could turn
receivers around in a heartbeat, a defenders around a heartbeat.
Excuse me. He gets full speed in the blink of
an eye, tracks the ball. You do not see him
lose focus or concentration. He comes back for the ball.

(20:54):
He's super friendly for his quarterback. So yeah, he's like
a running back with the ball in his hands in
the open field, run after catch. He's a game breaker.
He's physical, he gets north and south in a hurry.
There's so much to like about it. The thing about
LSU is you're playing them. Opponents know he's going to
get the ball, and he still has the skill to
come up with it. That's what you have to really

(21:16):
like about this kid.

Speaker 1 (21:18):
He's got that thick lower body too, where you can break.

Speaker 2 (21:20):
Yeah. He six foot, he's two hundred pounds and he
like I say, I watched him his whole career, and
I love the kid. I love the fact he played
at my alma mater and he and he, as I mentioned,
I've seen all the great ones come through. This kid
will be the next one. He will be the next one.
I think he's going to be a great pro. I

(21:41):
really do you love turf?

Speaker 4 (21:44):
You're good at it, So you start a turf biz
business grows, your savings grow, become the most celebrated name
in turf. Are you ready for all that life brings?

Speaker 3 (21:58):
John's Little Podcast is brought to you by Citizens, official
Bank of the Giants and game that every day. Citizens
is made ready for giant fans with insights, guidance and solutions.
Learn more at citizensbank dot com. All right, Brian, next
group of wide receivers. I got two guys sitting here
in my next tier, and I've gone back and forth
between Ady Mitchell and Brian Thomas Junior, and I feel
like you have some pretty good insight on these two guys.

(22:18):
I like Mitchell better on tape, but I don't like
the fact that he shows up at the combine and
basically says publicly, yeah, when I knew I wasn't getting
the boy, I wasn't gonna run hard.

Speaker 1 (22:27):
Don't love that, And I wonder if.

Speaker 3 (22:29):
That reflects on other parts of his game that might
show up that haven't shown up yet until he gets
into the National Football League. What have you heard about
Mitchell from Texas and some of that stuff? And Brian
Thomas Junior. I think he's still very raw, but boy,
some of those physical traits A guy is size, even
has some.

Speaker 1 (22:48):
Wiggle to him. Your thoughts on those two.

Speaker 2 (22:51):
Yeah, you know, it's funny. My son is a sophomore
at the University of Texas, and so he knows quite
a bit of these kids. As matter of fact, he's
befriended him and Arch Manning are really good friends. And
so Bennett likes to talk in football. And I asked
my as been all the time, like, man, what about
these kids? What about this Texas kid? You know, there's
plenty of them, you know, to and Bennett kind of

(23:13):
puts his money where his mouth is my son. He
traveled to Alabama, the Tuscaloosa to watch him play, so
he'll go around and watch these guys play, and and
but he gives me a good scouting reports on him.
The thing with Mitchell is he would not believe that
he weighs two hundred five pounds, but he does. He's
so thinly built, but he's he does weigh that. And

(23:33):
you know, he's generally a strong handed player. You watch
the Alabama game, Arnold, the very talented corner knocked the
ball out of his hands. Probably that was the only
time he ever saw him not just you know, just
hang onto a ball that way. He'll catch his share
of high point passes. He runs a lot of vertical routes.
He runs a lot of crossing routes. He tracks the ball,

(23:54):
he could find it. When he finds it, he extends it.
You know, he had a huge touchdown I mentioned the
Alabama game, like a justing over his shoulder. The initial quickness.
I don't really know about the top end speed for
as many of the vertical routes as he executes. But
he is a fluid mover. He can create separation. He's
a long arm player. With a soft hands, reliable catch rangers.

(24:15):
We've talked about all that. I like to stop the
start stop quickness into his game. How he gets up
the field. I mean, there's there's times where you know
he is just he's just making play after play after play,
and so you know, maybe you know, he transferred from
George and he kind of reminded me a little bit
when George Pickens came out of Georgia in twenty twenty

(24:37):
two that you saw these incredible plays and the ability
to go down the field and make plays like that.
I know Pickens makes plays for the Steelers quite a bit,
and this kid's got that same same kind of ability
when you look at when you look at Thomas and again,
here's you know, I'll try to not put my my
LSU alumni hat on here, but you mentioned it's six three,

(24:58):
two oh nine. This guy's a fluid moving guy for
a guy that did with with each stride he takes,
he creates separation. He's very savvy and reliable pass catcher.
He does a fine job of tracking the ball down
the field. There were plenty of times where the ball
was thrown and he had to make an adjusting catch.

(25:19):
You know he plays in tight spaces that you know
in the games where you see him. They throw the
ball in the corner six three two o nine, he
goes up, he gets it hands hands, gets the ball
feet down, concentration to make those acrobatic plays. He could
track it from either shoulder. I mean they throw the
ball inside, he's tracking it outside, he's tracking it. There's

(25:40):
an element of toughness to his game, and I think
where he'll need a little bit of work is if
people get up on him and press they and they'll
try and knock him around a little bit. That's where
he has to kind of figure some things out. But
when he sees that ball, he is going to get it.
So I could see why people have him as high
as they do. Lsu had two of the best receivers

(26:01):
in the country. I think this kid led the nation
in touchdowns. So that tells you a lot about his
kind of ability to finish plays.

Speaker 3 (26:09):
And now I think the next group is really the
fun one, right and I have I think, only looking
at my numbers right here, I have twelve guys. If
you had a third fourth thing.

Speaker 2 (26:20):
To still Bill, yeah, still Bill Parcell's line. You got
him stacked in there like club sandwiches.

Speaker 1 (26:25):
Yeah, I do.

Speaker 3 (26:26):
Second and third round is just stuffed with wide receivers
and they're all and they're all good players, Brian.

Speaker 1 (26:31):
I mean, I gotta be honest with you, they are
good players. My next four.

Speaker 3 (26:35):
Guys, like, depending on the day you talk to me,
right is where I have him. Right right now, I
have him a Conkie, Tony Franklin, pierceol Xavier Worthy. But
you talk to me in two days, I might have
a couple of those guys flipped either way and then
not behind too far behind them or Keon Coleman, devontees Walker.
So I got these guys just really stacked up against
each other. And these are guys going to be good,

(26:56):
I think, better than average daughters on day one walk
into the league.

Speaker 2 (27:01):
No, I think if I could focus on a couple
of them, go ahead. Conki Mconkee from Georgia is one
of my favorite players. He's at six foot, he's one
hundred and eighty six pounds. I mean, he's got a
slippery side to his game. He's one of the best
route runners I studied in this draft. He has deceptive speed,
he's got a burst. You don't think he's going anywhere

(27:21):
and with the ball. The next thing you know, he's
off to the races. This short area quickness is really good.
He creates opportunities at all levels of the defense. He
is a precise route runner. He's got a feel for
how to set up defenders. The quickness off the line,
the ability to escape. He catches the ball with ease.
If it's anywhere near him, he's going to make a play.
That's the type of player he is. And I wouldn't

(27:44):
bet against this guy having a great career in the
in the NFL. Now.

Speaker 1 (27:48):
The only thing is health, right because he has an injuries.
That's the only thing that health.

Speaker 2 (27:51):
Yeah, the health, and that's something that we're gonna have
to like, we're going to have to check on. They
had situation you mentioned Ricky Piersoll from Florida. This guy
is a transfer from Arizona State. He has gotten better
each year he's played college football. I went back. I
was curious. I wanted to see what kind of player
he was at Arizona State. And he did some really

(28:12):
some quality thing. I mean, he finds ways to get open.
He's got quickness, he's got speed, he can make sharp cuts,
he can get the defender off balance. He's not afraid
to take his routes anywhere on the field, plays well
in the move. The hands are excellent. He's got the
ability to make circus catches. Few receivers have the skill
set that he does. Catching the football. I was constantly well.

(28:34):
I mean, I think it's Mertz, a transfer from Wisconsin.
That was his quarterback at Florida, and the ball wasn't
always where it needed to be, but he was constantly
adjusting for passes and making plays. He takes big hits,
he gets up. He's super reliable in critical moments. I
see this guy is a really high high IQ player,

(28:56):
and so he knows how to find the spaces and
that toughness about his game. You could use this guy
in the slot. He's gonna he's gonna kill people there.
You can use him as a kick returner. He's gonna
help you there. But you could also play him on
the outside. He's, just, like I say, a high IQ
player that knows how to play the game at a
high level.

Speaker 1 (29:15):
It was funny.

Speaker 3 (29:16):
I'm watching I believe it was Ronaldo Green, or maybe
it was different, and I'm watching the corner and I'm like, well,
this guy is awesome.

Speaker 1 (29:24):
He's having a great year. I'm going through it.

Speaker 3 (29:26):
And then Ricky Piersoll shows up like as like the
next to last tape on on the schedule, and it's like,
oh yeah, oh and wow, I mean Piersoll just was
the craft of playing of wide receivers just absolutely yeah.

Speaker 2 (29:40):
And I and I know why you have all those
guys stacked in there because and this John. This is
what I want to ask you, if I can ask
a question please, when you look at these receivers, do
you feel like that maybe teams will say I don't
want to take a receiver in the second because I
might get the same Do you feel like that maybe

(30:03):
the position stretches so much then you'll see somebody like, Okay,
I'm gonna nab somebody here. I could go back to
the receiver and maybe get a guy like a pier
Saw or Pulp from Washington or somebody like that that
that you maybe could have gotten the second round.

Speaker 3 (30:21):
Now, I think there's a little bit of a gap
going from this group that we just talked about to
the Jalen mcmillans, the Mount Kai Corley's, the Jalen Pokes.
I don't have Xavier le Get until the third round. Myself, sure,
I think he's just really raw as a rat runner.
I don't see that, you know, I don't see the
same A lot of people talk about his yards after

(30:41):
catch stuff, as though he seboll Samuel. I just don't
see that on tape enough. For me, I see a
guy that's a six foot one contested catch guy, and
that does not get me that excited. But he has
the body for it, right, So I think there's a
little bit of a drop.

Speaker 1 (30:55):
Off for me.

Speaker 3 (30:57):
But if you're a team where you know, if you
draft a guy end up being a number three instead
of a number two when you're trying to fill out
your room, and you're good with that, I would understand
the idea of waiting. But if you're looking for a
legit what I think could be really good number two
wide receiver, I would try to get one of these
guys in the second before you get to that next
group in the third.

Speaker 2 (31:15):
I just, yeah, there's a couple of positions I feel
like that stretch pretty good. The receiver, maybe the corner,
maybe the edges. They seem to stretch a little bit more.
I wonder if people are gonna say, hmm, these guys
are kind of packed in there pretty good. We could
maybe wait, let's go get one of these, like, let's
go get a defensive tackle. Now, there's not a lot

(31:37):
of those guys. We come back and address this wide
receiver room if we have to.

Speaker 3 (31:41):
Who's the day three wide receiver that you think you
like more than everybody else? I like League Washington out
of Virginia. I think he's going to be a good pro.

Speaker 2 (31:49):
Yeah, you know. The guy that I really like is
McCaffrey from Rice, and too he is. He's one of
those guys. I think he's learning the position and that
you know, of course, the bloodlines are there for for
what he you know, for his dad was a really

(32:10):
nice player. Mom was a really good soccer player. Brother.
Of course, we all know what. We all know what
the brother situation is there. But I think he's learning
the position. He was a quarterback at Nebraska. They made
him a receiver. He's played receiver at Rice. The concentration,
the ball track and skills, he'll make some of the

(32:30):
most unreal receptions you'll ever see. I think he does
a really good job of putting himself in position to
receive the ball. He can adjust to the off target throw.
If it's in his area, he's likely to come down
with it. The savvy, natural kind of receiver of the ball.
So I think if you if you said, hey, give
me a guy in the in that day three that

(32:52):
kind of puts puts it together for me, I would
say that that he would be a guy that that
I would look at. I'll give you another one two
that I really like. I don't know if you've seen
bub Means from he.

Speaker 1 (33:03):
Is next on my list. I was hoping you will
bring up bub.

Speaker 2 (33:06):
Well, let me, let me, let me, let me, let
you talk about bub Means and I'll just agree with
everything you say.

Speaker 3 (33:11):
How about no, No, I have he is literally in
the next receiver I have to watch. I've not gone
to him yet, so please tell me all about him.

Speaker 2 (33:17):
Okay, well, this is this is this is one of
those guys. He's had an interesting college career because he
was a defensive back at Tennessee. Then he transferred to
Louisiana Tech to become a receiver. Then he went on
to Pittsburgh and so. But he's an impressive player. He's
sixties two hundred and twelve pounds. When you when you
start to like watch tape of those ACC games, he

(33:38):
makes a ton of contested catches. Uh, you know, it
was like it was crazy the number of catches he mac.
I think he had eleven of them in the just
alone in the twenty twenty three season. I think that
was the second most in the ACC. Five of his
receiving touchdowns were twenty plus yards. He's got a knack
for going and getting the football. He'll make receptions where

(33:59):
he's at full extension and somehow he's able to bring
the ball down. He'll make those circus catches I've talked
about with some of the others. The routes will go inside,
they'll go up the field. He works the middle of
the field. Well, the ball's going to his direction, he's
gonna catch it. He's got upper body strength. He lowers
his pads to run through defenders. He can make people

(34:20):
miss in the open field. He will need a little
work as a route runner, but he just has a
natural feel for the way he plays a game. I
feel like that his best football is ahead of him.
I just do you know. I know he's he's kind
of trying to learn, but he's been at a couple
of different stops. But at six ' one, two hundred
and twelve pounds, someone's gonna get a really good football

(34:45):
player here that can do a lot of things for you.

Speaker 3 (34:47):
All right, Well, let's him the tight ends rather than
going through this whole list here, Brian, Yeah, I only
have what i've Brad Bauers obviously as kind of your
blue chip top ten, top twelve type pick, and then
I only have two other tight ends with Day two
picks on my board here, and I'll just put out
one guy that I think I like better than most people, Bensonatt.

Speaker 1 (35:05):
When I watched him on tape.

Speaker 3 (35:07):
For a guy the way he's shaped, I thought his
ability to really snap off routes at the top of
the route, she was actually pretty good. For a guy
that I kind of see almost as like a you know,
KYLEO Yustchik type of player, I think, you know, when
he gets to the next level, you can run out
of the backfield. He split out wide, he was on
the line. He's not the biggest guy, but he's a
willing blocker. I would be very happy drafting Sonata on

(35:29):
Day two, knowing all the different ways you could use him.
Talk about him if you want to if there's another
tight end that you think you like more than most.

Speaker 2 (35:35):
No, I mean I think you got Benson. I think
you got him right, sixes, two hundred and fifty pounds.
You line him up. You mentioned Kyle Yuschik. What does
Kyle Uschek do? He lines up all over the formation.
Guy moves really well for size. He does have some
foot quickness to his game. I think he's got really
good hands. He only had two drops for the season
if you look at the metrics on him as as
a player. But the thing about him is he is

(35:58):
a He is a good locker. I mean he is
a really good blocker, and so the you know, the
thing that he plays, the out routes that he runs,
the speed outs, those were like two of his biggest
players wh they needed their first down. They throw him
the ball in that speed out the out. You know,
I think that to me when you the athletic ability,

(36:20):
he gets what he can to run after catch, the balance,
the toughness, you know, I love the versatility, and I've
just it never has been easy for him, it seems like,
but he manages to see it through. Think about him too.
He was a walk on at Kansas State. That's kind
of when you start to talk about players that you know,
I kind of had things a little rough. He's one

(36:41):
of those guys that's kind of been able to fight
thing through. If I can mention one other guy that's
tied end, Jared Wiley from TCU. I don't know if
you've seen him.

Speaker 1 (36:51):
I have.

Speaker 3 (36:51):
I like him more than I like Theo Johnson to
be honest with Yeah, yeah, and.

Speaker 2 (36:55):
Theo Johnson's high on a lot of people's board. This
guy's auld transfer from Texas mentioned he's sixty six, he's
two forty nine, and they're at TCU. He catches the
ball really, really well, and he's a tall guy and
so he get adjusted when it's delivered. You do not
see him play a lot of inline stuff. He's not
when we talk in line that's tackle next to the tackle.

(37:18):
He's usually a wing or a move guy. But the
coaches at TCU created ways to get him the ball.
But he's got strength to run through arm tackles. He's
got power. Uh you know, he can find soft spots
in the zone. He's got He gives effort as a
blocker and a second level blocker, but he's not a

(37:38):
killer by any means in that his contact balance as
a blocker will come and go. That's why he's not
an in line guy. But man, this is a red
zone guy. He can separate, he can make contested catches,
He's got straight line speed. I just feel like to
me that there's a guy that at six six two
forty nine, you you've got talking about a big target

(37:58):
that could work the middle of the field. I would
be surprised that some people have him higher on their ball. Yeah.

Speaker 3 (38:02):
I have Stover and Wiley as my only two fourth
round tight ends. So those are the two guys I
like in Round four. Different type of players, but I
have them kind of stack, you know, in relatively closer right,
let's go to the offensive line here, Brian, the offensive
tackle to me is fascinating. I know you love Fuanga
a lot at out of Oregon State. I want to
ask you about one thing, but you said you I

(38:22):
remember listening on one of your shows. You can't really
find the weakness watching his tape. Yeah, look at some
of the in game team stuff at the Senior Bawl
Diza Isaac give him.

Speaker 1 (38:32):
Some issues with speed rush And maybe maybe this.

Speaker 3 (38:36):
Is me being scarred from from from Evan Neil the
last couple of years. I worry about his ability to
really get wide on his kick and handle speed rushers outside.
While I see Latham, he gets out there easily, he
gets those long arms and the meat hawks on guys
and he locks him down. I like Wuanga as a
guy that can you know, play inside power. He flies

(38:58):
off the ball straight ahead, good athlete. I wonder about
his lateral ability to get wide against some of those
better speed rushers.

Speaker 2 (39:07):
To me, I man, I saw a really good foot athlete.
That's and you know, and I and I'm gonna admit
I did not look at the stuff at the senior ball.
I just went and did his tape that he had
at Oregon State. I kind of felt like though that
to me, there was there wasn't anything that he couldn't do.
And I just it was one of.

Speaker 3 (39:28):
The Brian Honestly, it did not show up on his
game tape much to be totally honest with.

Speaker 2 (39:33):
You, Yeah, yeah, I I man, I just saw a
guy with natural strength. I saw leverage, I saw power.
I saw him stone and defenders. I mean I felt
like he played relaxed as a passway. He didn't appear
hurried or stressed out. I thought he was a light
footed guy. Again, I watched the UCLA rushers, the Utah

(39:54):
rushers here, second level stuff. I mean, there's there's times
where you see him punish defenders, and I I thought
when he was helping his teammates that was something really big.
I love the power in the finish. I need to
probably go back and look at the Senior Bowl stuff
that way and see how that all worked out. But

(40:15):
that Penn State rusher is not a bad one that
he was, that he was he was dealing with. Now,
I will say this about Latham and I and I Okay,
and you know, I covered the Dallas Cowboys here, as
everybody well knows. So they're they're hunting the left tackle here. Really,
they're they're trying to figure out, you know, do they
want to kick Tyler Smith the guard outside? How do

(40:36):
they want to deal with that? So Latham is a
guy we're looking at all these tackles. I'm looking at
him and I'm going, okay, can he play left tackle?
And I'm I'm asking, I'm watching. I'm thinking, Skut looks
like a right tackle. He looks like a guard and
I'm just kind of going through it in my head.
I I just remember, like at you know, three hundred

(40:58):
and forty two pounds, I'm thinking, and Okay, this guy,
he does move pretty well and all that. I asked
a scout in the league, one of my buddies. I said, hey,
do you think Latham can play left tackle? He goes, no,
but I think he could be an All Pro guard.
And I'm like, okay, he's like a guard. Yeah, I mean,
it's sixty six, three forty two. That's what we're dealing

(41:20):
with right now. I kind of feel like he's going
to need to lose some weight to be even better.
And and you know, he started off like as a
three hundred and sixty pound guy and then you get
the combine and he's three forty two. So maybe he
is going in the right direction. But you talk to
people at Alabama and there were some questions about him

(41:40):
moving to left tackle after his sophomore year, and you know,
but that that, you know, Evan Neil was on the
team at the time. So the team they took they said, no, no,
We're going to play Latham at right tackle because they
wanted to try and develop a left tackle out weaken
the right side. So there are things that Alabama did

(42:03):
you know, maybe this kid can play. But I like,
I say, talking to a couple of scouts that that
that do the Southeast, the one just said, man, this
guy could be an All Pro guard. And I wonder, John,
how many of these guys we're looking at at tackle
that are going to end up playing guard? And I'll
give you I'll give you an example. I'll give you

(42:25):
an example of the guy that I'm that I'm thinking about.
Here is our guy from from Arizona, Morgan. Morgan. I mean,
everybody you talk to is like he's a guard. He's
a guard. He's a guard. But you watch him play
at Arizona, he's got some tackle trades to him. But
you know, if the Cowboys, let me tell you this.

(42:48):
I know I'm in a Giants podcast here right now,
but I'm just talking about it for you know, if
if you're the Dallas Cowboys, you look at these mammoth
tackles and to sell the Jerry Jones my own experience
to selling to Jerry Jones about you know, there was
a guy named Flozell Atoms that played a long time
and so if you describe the player like this guy's mammoth,

(43:10):
like flows Elle Adams. I think there are a couple
of those guys in this draft, these mammoth six six,
three hundred and forty two pound guys. And I guarantee
you everybody's got these tackles sorted differently. Yeah, there's no consensus.
It's probably like the quarterbacks. There's no consensus on these
offensive tackles.

Speaker 1 (43:30):
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Two tackles that interesting to me. Tony Tyler Goyton, who
I think, just based on athleticism, is probably the most
athletic tackle, but his hand usage is a mess and
there's just a lot of work to do with that.

(43:53):
Amarius Mims does not have a lot of starts under
his belt, but Mike.

Speaker 2 (43:56):
That would scare me.

Speaker 1 (43:57):
That would the tape that he has.

Speaker 3 (43:58):
Dude, nobody gets by him, I mean no, no one
gets by him, and.

Speaker 1 (44:02):
He looks really really good.

Speaker 3 (44:03):
I don't know how much of a fearsome, you know,
power run blocker he's going to be just because he's
so tall, but boy, his pass pro is phenomenal. And
then one of my personal favorites is Kingsley Suamataiya out
of Dyu.

Speaker 1 (44:16):
Boy.

Speaker 3 (44:17):
He's not quite the athlete Guidan is, but he's really
good and he is nasty. You watch him on tape,
finished blocks in the run game. He will bury guys.
But again, much like Geydon, a lot of work to
do there in terms of some of the fundamentals. But
he has left and right, which is something that I think,
you know, you like when you're trying to figure out
a fit for him. I just wonder how much teams

(44:37):
think that their old line coaches can coach up those
three guys where you know there is some rawness to
their games, but boy, the raw talent is just off
the charts.

Speaker 2 (44:47):
Yeah, we did a before I came on with you,
I was with Dallas Cowboys dot Com. We did the
draft show today and we did a mock draft and
we traded back. We picked up a pick from the
forty nine ers that Dallas doesn't currently have a fourth
round pick. We picked up a pick, went back to
their spot and picked at thirty one, and this is
who we picked. So Kingsley, we picked him. And I

(45:07):
totally agree with you about you know, you kind of
feel like with Brigham young players that you're always going
to get an older guy. This is not an older guy. No,
this is not an older guy. This guy transferred from Oregon.
And the reason he transferred from Oregon is he really
really missed his family. He got homesick and he missed
his his family and he's is Mormon faith and those

(45:30):
are the two things that when he was at Oregon.
You know, Oregon has done a great job of you know,
we talked about Oregon players every year, so that type
of thing. And BYU says a great history of putting
players in this league. But I totally agree with you.
At six five, three hundred and twenty six pounds, maybe
a little maybe some struggle in the Texas game, but
the Texas Tech game was really good. And so you know,

(45:52):
there's there's some things about with him coordinating a little
better with the hands and the feet, but if you
try and take him down the middle, he is not
going to let you buy, you know, And so I
kind of really. I love the way that as a
run blocker, when he comes out of a two point stance,
he comes off the ball, he engages, he works him
out of the play. He's got depressive second level blocks.

(46:14):
I would say that he runs really, really well, moves
well in the open field. But man, I'll tell you
what he is a He is a good football player.
And maybe if you're looking at the tail end of
all those tackles, this would be your guy.

Speaker 1 (46:28):
Am I wrong to really like Roger Rosengarden?

Speaker 3 (46:30):
I know no, and you're not, and you know, I
know he's stunk against Michigan, But dude, he's an athlete.
He can move, he has a good punch. I talked
to him at the Senior Bowl. He's got a great
attitude on him. I think I feel it bad for
the kid because his last stuff on tape before the
Senior Bowl is that terrible game against Michigan.

Speaker 1 (46:48):
But he is a good player.

Speaker 2 (46:49):
He's a really good player. And the thing about Rose
and Garden is, and this is where my history kind
of hurts me because every time did I see a tall, linear,
kind of light tackle, and I go back to David
Bachtiari Colton Miller. No, that's ad One, a guy in

(47:10):
your backyard there at Nate Solder. You know that type,
that that linear, long kind of guy. I always say,
not enough power, not enough power, not enough power, can't play,
can't play, pan play, And then they play twelve years,
you know, and it it Rose and Garden from Washington.
You're absolutely right. He's an exceptional foot athlete. His movement
skills are outstanding. It doesn't matter if it's run blocking,

(47:33):
pass blocking. You rarely see him on the ground. You
rarely see him in poor blocking position. He does a
great job of getting out of his stance. He could
time his feet, his hands, He's fluid, he does it.
He has the balance not to put his head in
the block. There's a lot of times. Let me tell
you the one thing I love about this kid. This
guy's got a crafty element to his game. And I

(47:55):
want to say, in this way, he'll throw rushers off
with the way he times his sets. Have you noticed
when sometimes he'll set deep, or he'll set really quick
on the line, and he'll like he'll he'll we call
short set. So like you get ta you get these
edges that are so used to rush, rush, rush, I mean,

(48:16):
they're gonna back up, back up, back up, and then
the third or fourth rush he will set short and
stab you at the line and they'll throw you off.
So I call that a crafty element to his game
because he's trying to throw the rushers off with the
timing of his sets, and you can't really get a
feel for him. I think he's going to be a

(48:37):
really good swing tackle to start his career, and I
would be surprised if he ends up being like David
Botti and Miller and these other guys that might be
that tall, linear kind of player and play for a
long time.

Speaker 1 (48:51):
All right, let's go to guard center, Brian World.

Speaker 3 (48:53):
We'll only we will only stack offense here again, and
then I'll get a couple of nuggets on a couple
of defensive guys. Sure, and then I'll have one final
question for you about the Cowboys, considering the interest for
Giant fans, you know, they haven't been able to beat
the Cowboys when to.

Speaker 2 (49:05):
See it, all those wide receivers we talked about, the
Cowboy fans are terrified that you guys are gonna take
one of those cats.

Speaker 3 (49:11):
Yeah, they should be. I mean, I don't know if
the Giants. But it would make a whole lot of sense.

Speaker 2 (49:18):
Every wide receiver we talked about. You guys like it. It
would terrify me as a cowboy fan.

Speaker 3 (49:23):
Yeah, all right, Uh, let's go guard center here, Brian.
And maybe you have some exclamation, maybe you don't. I
don't know, but you talk to people that you trust
around the league, that talk to people in front offices,
and it seems like the league does not feel like
Jackson Powers Johnson is a first round player. I don't

(49:43):
understand that at all. I mean, my gosh, you know,
a three. And maybe this is me spoiled watching Dexter
Lawrence all the time. All I see Dexter Lawrence do
is run over these three hundred and five pounds centers
like James Bradberry. And then I see this three hundred
and twenty five pound tank in Jackson Powers Johnson that
can also move, and I'm like, why woantn't a team
want this guy playing center for them and be like

(50:04):
an easy, can't miss first round pick?

Speaker 2 (50:06):
Yeah, I you know, and I think John a lot
that has to do with Uh, there's an injury history there. Uh,
there's there's two things that he's really dealing with that
are that teams are having to dig in on and uh,
both of the more physical things. I can't get into
it right now with you. I wish I could. I

(50:27):
just it's something that that I have to check on more.
But I've heard from a couple of different teams we're
starting to see Graham Barton from Duke elevate over him
and Graham Barton's dealing with his own stuff like that.

Speaker 3 (50:42):
But and by the way, he looks more like his said,
I don't know if he has the power to play guard,
but I would be fine with him playing center.

Speaker 2 (50:48):
Yeah, that's that's the thing about it is. I mean
there there's Graham Barton is a really good player, high
IQ player. But to get back to Powers Johnson, there's
things medically there that teams are having to look at
physically and some other things as well. So we're starting
to see that maybe some teams, you know, I'll just

(51:08):
give you example. Mel Kiper didn't have him in a
first round. Monk Daniel Jeremiah had him at high one
time and now has dropped him down in the ranking field.

Speaker 3 (51:19):
Yates mentioned how he's talking to teams and he had
him going the twenties that that's way too high.

Speaker 2 (51:25):
Yeah see, and that's the deal. And I think what's
happening right now, to be honest with you, John is
scouts are catching up. Media scouts are catching up with
the injury history, and our teams comfortable with the medical history,
and so much like Peyton Wilson, the very talented linebacker

(51:45):
from North Carolina State, there are things that you have
to dig in on him. And I have a feeling
now where we had power Shohnson me personally for the
Cowboys at twenty four, I'd absolutely take him. I would
just you're right. This guy is he's a tank. And
the way he plays, the way he gets the second level.
He's physical in the running game. You know, he helps

(52:06):
his teammates, you know, six three three, twenty eight, My gosh,
this guy. I mean, when Dallas was really good running
the football, they had a good center in Travis Frederick.
This guy's got the angles, the second level, the two blocks.
On one play, he'll bounce from one guy to another guy.
He drive his guy the hole. He didn't appear to
have the longest arms, but he does a good job

(52:26):
of finding his target.

Speaker 1 (52:27):
He finishes inside.

Speaker 2 (52:29):
All the hans are inside he's smart. You don't see
him get busting plays or getting fooled. He loves to
play the game. His toughness is impressive. Yeah that that's
if teams are getting off of him because of some
medical concerns, well then maybe a team will benefit by
by having him on their team or draft.

Speaker 3 (52:49):
You know you mentioned scouts that are really good at
drafting positions. Can you send whatever Cowboys scout d scouts
offensive lineman for them and send them up here because
the Giants us, Oh, we've been trying for a while,
it hasn't been working.

Speaker 2 (53:02):
Yeah, plug and play man, I mean that's Dallas. The
one thing is Dallas takes the first round offensive lineman
that is going to be a plug and play player.
They have a great knack for doing that.

Speaker 4 (53:13):
You're ready for a change. Pay Day comes early with citizens,
So go to that retreat. Knew you moves to the country.
Now you're raising goats and launching a lifestyle brand. Are
you ready for all that life brings?

Speaker 3 (53:28):
You know, people come to this podcast. Nothing gets the
more excited Brian than talking about day two. Guards and centers. Yeah, sexy,
It's it's exciting. So I love Zach Frasier. The Giants
don't need a center, but I so. I haven't had
a chance to talk about him much, but I watched
him a couple weeks ago, and I don't know if
he wrestled in his background, but the way he's so
low to the ground and squatty, he looks like a

(53:50):
wrestler the way he plays. I don't think enough people
talk about Cooper Bebee. He's the second round player for
me all day long. I don't care that he bench
press twenty that guy. I tweeted this the other day.
If you're a linebacker or a defensive back and he's
coming at you on one of those you know, second
level blocks, look out because he's looking to murder you
and put you, you know, six feet on there.

Speaker 1 (54:11):
Like yeah, Muller. I like Christian Haynes at a Yukon and.

Speaker 3 (54:14):
Then around three you know, Dominic Poone's kind of a
tweeler for me. He looks like he should be a tackle,
but he's not long enough to be a tackle. But
I'm not sure he's big enough to be a guard.
So I like the player, I just don't know where
he fits. I like Isaiah Adams as a guard. And
then I'm a big Mason McCormick guy at a South
Dakota State. I think he just has the mentality, physicality
and everything to be a darn good interior offensive line.

(54:37):
And then guys with like third fourth round combo grades.
For me, I like BORDERLINI out of Wisconsin moves better
than you know.

Speaker 1 (54:43):
He good mover.

Speaker 3 (54:44):
I think he overextends himself sometimes and bends a little
bit too much and leans. And then you have Ziner
and Mahogany, which you're kind of like. I think they
in a year or two they could be like baseline
levels starting guards that aren't gonna dominate, but aren't gonna
get you into trouble either.

Speaker 2 (54:59):
Yeah. I think if Tom Coughlin was still coaching for
you guys, Christian Mahogany from Boston College would have a
good Boston College has a great history of putting offensive
linemen in the league. They do. They're tough guys, and
so we'll see where Christian mahage If I could circle
back real quick, and this is the guy when I'll talk.

Speaker 1 (55:15):
Yeah, hey, hey, whoever you want.

Speaker 2 (55:17):
Zach Frasier and you mentioned him from West Virginia. He's
a little bit of a You know, he doesn't look
as big on tape, but he's three hundred and thirteen
pounds and he's really good as a point of attack blocker.
He's really good in the passing game as well. He
plays on his feet. You don't see him getting knocked
around or anything like that. He gets in position, as
you mentioned, right off the snap, and he's one of

(55:37):
those guys that you'll see him he'll get his head
all the way across the defender and secure blocks like
wide techniques, that one technique, that three technique. He can
He has a real feel for that. If you ever
have the opportunity watch him play against Texas, and all
we're going to talk about are Texas's defensive tackles, the

(55:57):
ones and the threes, you know, sweat, We're going to
talk about those guys. He handled those guys, and those
guys are going to play in the league. Those guys
are gonna get drafted pretty highly. And he handled those guys.
If he's handling those types of guys, he can handle
others in the National Football League. I really do like
that player a lot, all.

Speaker 3 (56:18):
Right, So let's let's let's go express to the defense
real quick. Brian, we've been going a while already. I
want to waste more of your time.

Speaker 2 (56:24):
No, you're not wasting time.

Speaker 3 (56:25):
I love doing this defensive tackle. Give me a guy
maybe that you like more than most. I'll just throw
my two cents out there to Vanji Sweat. And this
is even before the DWI thing. Yeah, this is would
that put aside. A guy that fluctuates weight wise that
much is always going to scare me. So I like
a third round great on him, just because I'm worried

(56:46):
about that sort of stuff. Any sore thumbs for you
with defensive tackle in terms either you're much higher or
lower on some of these guys than maybe with the consent.

Speaker 2 (56:53):
Yeah, I you know what the problem I'm running into,
John is that I this is a very and the
one techniques. I think they're guys the three techniques, and
that's again working for you know, covering the Cowboys, Dallas
is really looking for a one.

Speaker 1 (57:09):
Technique, not a lot of those guys in there.

Speaker 2 (57:11):
We'll see, We'll see what happens Mike Zimber. We'll see
what happens with Mazzie Smith, and Mike can do something
with Mazzie Smith, get the weight back on Mozzie Smith
and all that, But you mentioned sweat Fisk from Florida State.
I think is a really really good player, a guy
that a guy that that. I don't know if you've
if you've looked at or you've studied all that much.

(57:33):
Have you studied Jackson from Texas A and M Jackson.

Speaker 3 (57:37):
Yes, I have, and I saw him up close to
the Senior Bowl too, and I was very impressed. I
think for a guy that size, he can push the
pocket a little bit.

Speaker 2 (57:45):
Yeah, he's three, he's six two, he's three hundred and
twenty six pounds, and you know, this is where I
saw a really explosive guy. I saw range. I saw
a guy that got off the ball. As you mentioned,
he's constantly jarring opponents, and you can see him knocking
guy's back, the power, the double teams, all those things
that he faced. He moves like a much smaller guy,

(58:07):
you know, but he's got all that size and I
was amazed with how well did he really meet you.
You see snaps where he is off the ball and
you know, kind of knocked around a little bit, but
then again the next one he's on the other side
of the line of scrimmage. I think he's is equally
good playing the nose head up as he is playing
in the gap. And he's a guy that I like,

(58:30):
you know, as you look down potentially in that third
fourth round. The guy that I and here's when my
LSU guys.

Speaker 1 (58:37):
Yeah, I don't have much separating him in sweat by
the way they are not.

Speaker 2 (58:39):
Ye, there you go, that's good. That's good. Then that's
good to know. The guy that I would be a
little worried about is Mason Smith from LSU.

Speaker 1 (58:48):
Looks like Tarzan, but you don't see it on the field, man, You.

Speaker 2 (58:51):
Don't, You sure don't. He was a five star recruit
coming out of college, and he's had two major injuries
while he was at LSU. He had a shoulder problem
and a knee problem. And he's got a really good
first initial step, and then after that he loses momentum.
And I think there's a lot of people that really
like this kid a lot. He plays really tall, his
pad level is immediately comes up, and against double teams

(59:15):
he'll struggle and he'll lose that at the point of attack.

Speaker 1 (59:18):
I liked Wingo's tay better than his, to be honest.

Speaker 2 (59:20):
Yeah, I would be I would kind of be buyer
beware about Mason Smith. And here I was praising LSU
guys earlier. This would be a buyer beware thing. If
you're looking for one technique.

Speaker 1 (59:33):
Tackle, yeah, you mentioned one.

Speaker 3 (59:34):
I'm curious, how do you sort out these like mid
round three techniques. I'll take fist out of it. Already
mentioned him v Yeah, the ro Ros, the Jenkins, the Dorlesses,
the Michael Halls, like that group.

Speaker 1 (59:45):
How do you kind of sort through that mess?

Speaker 2 (59:47):
I like the thing I you know, I Jenkins to
me if you if you Mazzie Smith at a Michigan
and Mozzie came to the league and had problems with
his the get off and you wonder, I'm like, is
that him or is it the scheme? You watch Chris
Jenkins play some of the similar problems of getting off.

(01:00:09):
I mean they play such a read and react defense
there at Michigan, and you wonder how it's fed. I
love Dorless. I think Dorless could play any one of
the spots out of Oregon. Mike Hall from Ohio State
another guy that I really liked.

Speaker 1 (01:00:24):
Inconsistent though he's a great athlete, but.

Speaker 2 (01:00:27):
Yeah, yeah, but him Carter from from Duke Yeah, good play.
I think those are all those are all kind of
third fourth round guys. You mentioned Wingo Taylor from Miami.
I think those are guys that you know are all
kind of in that in that group. But I do
like dor Less from Oregon quite a bit.

Speaker 3 (01:00:49):
Okay, give me one notable thing from your edge group
that people should know about.

Speaker 2 (01:00:55):
I'll tell you what I think that. If you're looking
for a complete player, and I know we Dallas Turner
as being the potentially the best one at Alabama, I
got Verse from Florida State as a better player, and
I'll tell you why.

Speaker 1 (01:01:08):
So much power, Brian, It's so much fun to watch.

Speaker 2 (01:01:11):
The thing with Versu is that with his ability to
play the run and also rush the passer, give me
these complete guys, don't. I don't need a one trick pony,
as we say in scouting world. I don't need a
guy that's just a great pass rusher. The thing with Verse,
I know, you know a transferred from Albany, which is
a story in itself, but the fact that he the

(01:01:34):
way that he plays at Florida State, the explosiveness, the
way he plays with power, the way he plays with
the point of attack. Give me that guy. I have
a chance to be really wrong about Chop Robinson by
the way I got him in the second round. I
know there's some people that probably have him a little
bit higher. Me too, but man, the upper body that's

(01:01:54):
kind of thin, the lower body that has the power
is nice. I don't know if I always see it
with Chop Robinson though. And then Latto from UCLA there's
another one of those medical concern guys. The guy is
a freak type of a pass rusher, but you know
the medical retirement when he was at Washington, he went

(01:02:15):
to UCLA. There's a lot of questions about that guy.
But Turner scares me a little bit because I watched
Braswell on the other side. It seemed like he got
more pressures there at Alabama.

Speaker 1 (01:02:29):
You know what, I walked away thinking the same thing.
I like Braswell.

Speaker 2 (01:02:33):
Yeah, And if I could give you a guy down
the line, yeah, to check out as The University of
Houston has an edge rusher that I really really like.
And I'll tell you what. Nelson Caesar is his name,
and he's sixes two hundred and fifty four pounds. He
can stand up he could put his hand down. Check

(01:02:56):
out Nelson Caesar if you had this guy plays with
a true, true burst. He's six three, two fifty four.
As I mentioned, you know, he's one of those guys
he does not let blockers get into his body at all,
and he could split guys on the goal line. He's
a physical tackler. So I'm talking about potentially a Day
three guy right there. But Nelson Caesar as a guy

(01:03:18):
I need to.

Speaker 1 (01:03:18):
Mention, all right, I want to hit DB's real quick.

Speaker 3 (01:03:20):
The Giants have two needs there, Tony Brian quarterback, I
think you know you got that group that's gonna go
one very early two. Then you got a bunch of
second third round guys here that can play inside and outside.
I really like Rinaldo Green out of Florida State. I
like Mike Sandser Still out of Michigan. I think both
are very good football players. Who do you like in

(01:03:41):
that mid mid day two type of area, either inside
or outside.

Speaker 1 (01:03:45):
It is quite frankly, the Giants could use both.

Speaker 2 (01:03:47):
The sansor Still guy from Michigan is as a quality
quality player, and you know the thing about him is,
though he's a little bit of a shorter guy. But
you know, he was a converted wide receiver and I'll
tell you what though, it shows because he knows how
to read routes and like you said, you could play
him inside outside. He's got quick feet. It's a hard

(01:04:09):
guy to get away. He's smart, he's tough, he's willing.
He is a smaller guy. That's the thing about it.
The guy that I like. And again, here's a guy
we probably have to check some injury history on a
little bit. But Kyrie Jackson out of Oregon is a
six ' four one and ninety four pound corner. He's
a transfer from Alabama. He's a long, athletic cover guy.

(01:04:32):
It's got a lot of physical tools to his play.
He's very competitive. He wants to be a part of
the action. He's not a blow you up type of guy.
He'll wrap up. I've seen him on the blitz. He's
had six success attacking the pocket. Easy for me to
say right then and there, but he mainly plays as
an outside corner and he's going to travel with the
number one. His best snaps are when he could play

(01:04:54):
impress man and disrupt guys off the line. He uses
linked I love the way challenge receivers. You know, he
might need a little help with the change of direction stuff.
He gets a little handsy at time. But other than that, man,
this guy is a really talented player with some size.
All right.

Speaker 3 (01:05:11):
Then finally, safety Tony, I keep calling you Tony, Tony.
Paul need is my coast on draft season, and I've
been doing that all week.

Speaker 1 (01:05:16):
I do all these interviews. I apologize, Briance.

Speaker 2 (01:05:19):
It's okay, I just I just answer whatever you call me.

Speaker 3 (01:05:22):
Yeah, Coole Bishop is a safety. I really like anyone
from this which I think is really muddled in that
day two area that really sticks out to you as
a guy that can The Giants are probably gonna go
to this split safety, you know, scheme where you need
the guys to be a little more versatile.

Speaker 1 (01:05:38):
Who are some of the guys you like that might
be able to fit in that mold?

Speaker 2 (01:05:41):
Yeah, the Cowboys the same way with Mike Zimmer He
Mike wants guys to play with rain. Well, everybody wants
rain safeties and stuff, but they have to be interchangeable
safeties is what you're looking at right there, to be
able to play down in the box, play back. My
favorite guy when it comes to this type of play
is Tyler Nuban from Minnesota, and you know, we'll see

(01:06:03):
where he goes in this draft. I think he's the
best safety in the country. I think the awareness he
plays with, the instincts when others are standing still. At
Minnesota on defense, he's in attack mode. Everybody's kind of
trying to figure every things out. He know he's coming,
He's gonna. He's got straight line speed, he's got quickness,
he's got a burst. He punishes his ball carriers with
his closing speed. He makes a ton of plays down ill.

(01:06:25):
I love the way that he tracks the football. He's
got a feel for how to play in order to
play through the receiver in order to make the play.
So I really really am a big fan of his.
I know you mentioned you mentioned the Cole Bishop out
of Utah. I think there's a guy that you look
at the link the build. He can cover some ground.

(01:06:46):
He's one of those type of players that can play
near the line of scrimmage. He can play with some depth.
He's asked to play a bunch of spot He's not
bad at mixing it up at the line again, uses
a blitzer run defender. Ford in a hurry. I think
he could feel a little inconsistent as a tackler though
I've seen him wrap up. But I've also just seen
him throw his body into the guy and hope for

(01:07:07):
the best right there. So there's it's quite a group
I know that people have talked about with Kaylen Bullock
as well from USC kind of is the true guy.
I mean, he's one hundred and eighty eight pounds. He
really looks thin on tape.

Speaker 1 (01:07:21):
But he gets the ball though, man, he does he
hit the ball.

Speaker 2 (01:07:24):
He does get the ball. He's a fluid moving guy
when he's he has no trouble coming forward. His range,
That's the thing about an is his range. He could
overlap and cover from different areas in the field. He
plays with his eyes, read and react. I mean, there's
a lot of really positive things to like about Kaylen Bullock.

Speaker 3 (01:07:43):
All right, final question, And I like that like to
think that I keep track of all of these teams
into the Cowboy in the Giants Division like the Cowboys,
and I have a pretty idea what Washington's doing.

Speaker 1 (01:07:53):
I have a pretty good feel for it.

Speaker 3 (01:07:54):
Phil He's trying to do extending all their young guys
early and all that stuff. But Brian, I gotta be
honest with you, I can't for the life and we
figure out what the heck the Cowboys are doing with
Dak Prescott. How they're handling this is mind boggling to
me from a salary cap perspective. And just if they
really like Dak Prescott, well, he's gonna be basically an
unrestricted free agent next offseason if they'll do something, and

(01:08:15):
if they want to keep them, it's he's only gonna
become the highest paid quarterback in football because he's gonna
could basically dictate to the Cowboys whatever he wants. And
they still have land that they haven't extended Michael Parson's extension.

Speaker 1 (01:08:27):
Alb they even done him yet.

Speaker 3 (01:08:29):
Can you give me some idea of what the Cowboys
they have their coach on the last year of his deal,
what's their long term plan here moving forward in terms
of getting well.

Speaker 1 (01:08:36):
Really the core of their team moving forward.

Speaker 2 (01:08:39):
A lot to unpac there, and you kind of covered
it all. Uh yeah, John, it's uh, we're all kind
of trying to figure that out as well. You know,
they could have flipped some switches, did some things, They
created a couple avoidable years. They were able to kind
of get a little bit of cap relief on You're right,
if they let him get the free agency, there's an
opportunity for somebody to grab him. Then you only get

(01:09:01):
the compensatory three likely out of that. If that's the case. Yeah,
there's a lot of questions there. Some unfortunate things have
happened to them in this regard. They didn't they didn't
react quick enough to get him done. They didn't have
a fifth year option on him, the know, but they
kept letting it go. They let Ken play out and

(01:09:22):
play out and play out, and it finally it's caught
up with them in that way. They keep kicking the
can down the road. But now they're in a situation
where there's no trade. You know, Now, if you wanted to,
you could probably go to him and say, listen, we
have a deal. Would you be interested, and you know,
he could say yes or no. But yeah, this is
this is a situation where there's not a lot of uncertainty.

(01:09:45):
You know that I believe they're going to pay him.
I don't think they're going to pay him now, but
when they're going to try and see if they can
compete next year with it and we'll see. They have
a history of signing guys for training camp opens. You know,
we get there, they make a big announcement, Oh, Dak
Prescott has signed an extension. Da da da da. But

(01:10:07):
there's I just have a feeling that they're going to
figure this thing out. And Dak Dak has reasons to
be here for his off the field stuff too, which
is very promise that it's a very big part of
what he does. But I think Dallas is going to
get the deal done. But there's also a side of

(01:10:28):
me that says, I wouldn't be surprised if they moved
on from Mike McCarthy, moved on from Dak Prescott and
just kind of reset this thing. You know is Jerry
and Stephen Jones aren't going anywhere. The front office is
not going anywhere. If you're a general manager that needs
to have keep your job because of your quarterback, you
probably would have had this thing done. But they're not
going anywhere. So they feel like that they could probably

(01:10:51):
wait this thing out and make him play another year
and then come back to the table and see if
it's good enough or not. If it's good enough, uh,
they'll they'll pay him a huge amount of money, as
you just mentioned, if it ends up to being like
it was against Green Bay, they can very well move
on from this guy. I think that's where we're at
right now.

Speaker 1 (01:11:11):
You think any chance Lamb gets extended before the season.

Speaker 2 (01:11:15):
Uh, that's one man. That's a that's that's another good question.

Speaker 1 (01:11:20):
Yes, he seems to check every box like he does.

Speaker 2 (01:11:22):
He does, he's got he's gotten better, He's gotten better
every year. I will say this, and this is how
Diggs got his deal done at the cornerback spot. If
you're not the guy resetting the market, Steven Jones will
deal with you. He's really good at Okay, I don't
have to be the highest paid wide receiver, but if

(01:11:44):
I'm the third highest paid wide receiver, you know, Stephen
Jones can figure out ways to work with you that way.
He's really good at doing that kind of stuff. But
when you when you're the resetter of the market, like
what's gonna happen with Michael Parsons. You know, we saw
what Josh Allen just got in Jacksonville, right.

Speaker 1 (01:12:04):
And Brian Burns from US.

Speaker 2 (01:12:05):
And Brian Burns, Yeah, that's the same. I mean, those
are only things that Steven Jones is gonna have to
deal with down the road. So I think it's easier
to figure out what they might do in the draft
than it is to figure out what they're gonna do
with these contracts.

Speaker 3 (01:12:20):
Brian, awesome stuff. Tell the folks where they can find
all your fantastic work.

Speaker 2 (01:12:24):
Well, I appreciate that, Johnny. Again, I utmost respect for
the Giant organization. Thank you for the bank that sponsors
your show, for putting us on today. Yeah, all my
stuff is I'm at one O five three to the
Fan two to seven Monday through Friday. You can catch
us on the Odyssey app if you're interested in that
kind of stuff. Dude, love with the Start podcast with

(01:12:44):
Bobby Belt That's something we do on Odyssey as well.
And then also the Draft show, which I do with
Dallas Cowboys dot Com. Been running on that for eleven
years now, so that's part of it. So all that
at Twitter at Brian brought us welcome all questions. If
you're a Giants fan and you have a question about
maybe a player or two, I'll be happy to answer

(01:13:05):
those questions. Just let me know you're a Giants fan too.
I always like interacting with fans especially this time of
year with all the work that we do covering all
these players.

Speaker 3 (01:13:14):
Brian, great is that my friend I always love catch
up with every year around this time.

Speaker 1 (01:13:17):
It's a ton of fun. I just love talking to you.
I think we've become.

Speaker 3 (01:13:20):
Friends over the years, and I absolutely and I just
enjoy talking to you. Good luck as we sprint about
one week until draft, my friend.

Speaker 2 (01:13:27):
Thank you, John appreciate that, and you guys take care
out there.

Speaker 3 (01:13:30):
Brian brought us thanks for joining us on the Giants
Little Podcast, brought to you by Citizens Official Bank of
the Giants.

Speaker 1 (01:13:34):
We'll see you next time.

Speaker 2 (01:13:35):
Everybody,

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