April 15, 2024 • 35 mins
On this episode of the Giants Huddle podcast, John Schmeelk is joined by Field Yates from ESPN, and Bucky Brooks from NFL Network, to discuss draft scenarios, the top wide receivers, and the top quarterbacks coming out in the 2024 NFL Draft.
:00 - Field Yates
15:38 - Bucky Brooks
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
It's time to get inside the Giants huts. That's Giants.
Dunt come get on my giants, bull give me some job.
Part of the Giants Podcast Network, Let's roll.
Speaker 2 (00:10):
Welcome to another Giants Little podcast, brought to you by Citizens,
the official bank of the Giants. How to it be
joined for the second straight year by Field Yates, who
is now a draft analyst for ESPN. And Field, I
wonder if you knew exactly what you were getting into
when you went from host to analysts and all the
extra work it's put on your plate trying to manage
two young children in a home much like I am.
Speaker 3 (00:30):
Yeah, it's it's it's certainly every day is a challenge,
but in the best way possible, right. I mean, the
draft is an event that I know you and I
have loved since we were you know, like the age
of our children right now, So I certainly will complain
about covering the draft. I'd say the biggest difference between
this role and sort of playing the point guard role
in the past is it's like, you know, people do
care about players beyond let's say the first fifty or so, right,
(00:52):
But as you know, like ninety seven percent of the
coverage up until the draft is about that top fifty
or so players. Heck, a lot of it's about the
first like twelve or fifteen picks, right, I mean the
quarterbacks in this year's class, the wide receivers, bowers, et cetera.
But I got a really you know, my biggest thing
this year is recognizing that there are two hundred and
fifty seven picks and we want to give some time
(01:15):
to all two hundred and fifty seven of them, or
at least the ones.
Speaker 4 (01:18):
That you know.
Speaker 3 (01:19):
Of course, on a Day three a lot of commercial breaks,
as you can imagine during a seven hour broadcast, So
when my guy's name is called during our broadcast, we
want to make sure that we are doing our best
to provide insight on that pick, whether it's fourth, fifth, sixth,
or seventh round pick, whether it's a small school guy,
whether it's a big school guy. Because there are plenty
of draft success stories that prove that is certainly worth
(01:40):
paying attention to Day three at the NFL Draft.
Speaker 2 (01:42):
And by the way, go check out Field on First
Draft with mil Kaypers twice a week. It's a podcast
is on the YouTube channel. I love your shows and
you guys dig into the the day two and three guys,
and I know Mel likes doing that too. You guys
do a great job. But let's start at the top
field real quick. You're plugged into the league. Do you
have any feel yet what the Patriots are gonna do
with three? We might not know what quarterback Washington is
(02:02):
taking it to, but we know they're taking a quarterback.
Speaker 1 (02:05):
Do you have an.
Speaker 2 (02:05):
Idea if the Patriots are trying to get out yet
or or what they're thinking at that spot?
Speaker 3 (02:10):
Yeah, I feel good about the first two picks. You know,
Kayleb Williams, you know he can look at houses on
Zillo right now if we wanted to in Chicago. That's
how secure that pick is. And then Jayden Daniels, I
think is gonna end up being a Washington commander by
the time we get to April twenty fifth, which is
two weeks away from when you and I are having
this conversation right now. And then I think the Patriots,
and I'm following the lead of some of the public
(02:31):
comments that have been made this year. With Bill Belichick
no longer the head coach, I would say that you
know you're hearing a little bit more from the organization
for better or worse. I'm not exactly sure where we
land on that as of yet, but you know, Drod Mayo,
the new head coach, just talks about the importance of
a quarterback. Even Elliott Wolf, who's now kind of pulling
a trigger for them in the personnel department, talked about
the quarterback position during the combine, not quite as transparently,
(02:53):
but did acknowledge it. And then Robert Craft, the owner
of the team, who, despite the fact that he is
not the person who is making the draft picks, he
says he wants a quarterback of pick three the GM
or the de facto GM, and the head coach say, Okay,
we're gonna find the best one for you. So I
think the Patriots end up taking a quarterback at number
three overall. And I'll use some of the teams that
are not picking in the first three as examples as
(03:15):
to why the opportunity cost is really really difficult to
bypass if you are a team like the Patriots this year.
Is that if you're the Patriots and you don't take
a quarterback at three. First of all, we know this class, right,
We're two weeks away from the draft beginning we know
what this class looks like, and at least to my evaluation,
there are at least three quarterbacks that are worthy of
a top three overall pick. I think Drake May part
(03:37):
of that conversation as well. So while you could have
a player next year in the draft, you could have
ten quarterbacks who are superior to Caleb Williams and Jayden
Daniels and Drake May and Jjim McCarthy, you could also
have zero, right, I mean, we've seen this year to year, right,
A couple of seasons ago, a couple of years ago,
the Steelers take Kenny Pickett round one. He's traded within
two years. By the way, he was the only quarterback
taken in the first two rounds, much less like you know,
(03:59):
the first five picks. He one in the twenties for Pittsburgh.
So there's a certainty right beyond that if you take
a don't take a quarterback and instead trade down, they're
gonna fill a lot of your other needs, most likely
wide receiver, offensive tackled for the Patriots primary needs as well.
But a year from now, you could be the eighth
pick and you could be saying, all right, well, what
would it have cost Atlanta, who if they didn't land
(04:22):
Kirk Cousins, you better believe they were gonna be in
the quarterback market in the draft. It might cost them.
I'm just making this up. Eight plus they're twenty twenty
five first plus they're twenty twenty six first or something
like that. So the Patriots could be making the same
move in reverse a year from now. So, whether it
was the Patriots, whether it was the Commander's, if it
(04:42):
was any team at three that needed a quarterback, I
would have vouched for taking a quarter I will vouch
for taking a quarterback at three and keeping it simple.
Speaker 1 (04:52):
And it's a little bit of a different situation.
Speaker 2 (04:54):
I think the Giants in their war room is probably
are probably having a similar conversation, right yeah, if you
get closer to five one hundred, you're picking fourteenth. And
let's say you decide, all right, we do want to
make a quarterback switch. Well a, is there a guy
out there you want be? The price team up is
really high, but even this year field, it's opportunity cost
to your point, right, you have an opportunity to get
a great player at a premium position, whether it's wide
(05:15):
receiver or offensive tackle. If you want to go that
way in this draft, you're gonna have a chance at
one of those two spots, and you're pretty damn sure
other player is gonna be good. Yeah, you can pick
a quarterback at six, but honestly, with Arizona and the
Chargers there, they're looking to get out.
Speaker 1 (05:30):
I think both of us agree on that.
Speaker 2 (05:31):
So you're gonna have that fourth quarterback picked in that
area ahead of the Giants. So not only you have
to spend the capitol on a quarterback, you have to
move up and you probably send next year's one to
get into.
Speaker 1 (05:43):
One of those spots to draft the quarterback.
Speaker 2 (05:45):
So how would you weigh that opportunity cost if you're
the Giants who do have a young quarterback place in
Daniel Jones, who you know you believe enough in to
sign to a long term contract two years ago. Last
year didn't go well. You know, there's a lot of
different reasons for that. We don't need to get into those.
How would you weigh that up opportunity costs and decision
that the Giants are making it six compared to what
you just talked about with New England.
Speaker 3 (06:05):
I think the hardest part of the equation that I
have not yet been able to figure out, is what's
the cost? You mentioned the possibility of next year's one.
I think I'm like, I have speculated the same, but
I don't know that for sure, right, I mean the
move up that we keep using data points when we
are trying to evaluate what it might cost to move
up from one spot to the next. And because fairly
(06:26):
recently twenty twenty one we had the forty nine ers
go from twelve to three, we are all using the
idea of about three first round picks, including this year's pick,
to move up. Right, So if you're Arizona, you might
get eleven twenty three and a next year one from
Minnesota as an example, don't I mean, I can't guarantee
that's what's what's going to cost. But if I'm Arizona,
(06:47):
I'm saying, did you see what happened three years ago? Like,
that's exactly what we are thinking. Meanwhile, when was the
last time we had like a six to four move
up for a quarterback?
Speaker 1 (06:56):
I think it was really yet it wasn't like three twos.
Speaker 3 (06:58):
I think six three when they moved up in twenty
eighteen to grab Sam Darnald. But you know, to me.
The difference there was that the Jets that was so early.
That was actually, I believe on Saint Patrick's day, So
it was March, way before the draft, and it was
like the Jets were saying at that time, we're comfortable
with whoever falls to three, right, there was not nearly
(07:20):
as much certainty about which quarterback was going to be
taken number one overall. A lot of people thought it
could have been Sam Darnald, some thought could have been
Josh Allen. So I think Draft Twitter was advocating probably
correctly for Lamar Jackson. You know, Josh or Lamar obviously
the two crown jewels of that class. But you know,
it's a different marketplace now. It feels like now that
(07:42):
we've had a steeper cost paid by somebody else, the
Cardinals and the Viking and the Chargers have that leverage
of we're not gonna give it away to you, right So,
and the other part of this is that Arizona and
the Chargers have very appealing options at four and five
if they stay there, right. So for Arizona, it's not
just all right, hey, you guys are offering us a
deal less than what Miami got a few years ago.
(08:04):
It's also that we're bypassing Marvin Harrison Jr. Right, So
anyways to go to the Giants. I don't have a
great feel of what it would cost to go from
six to four to six to five. I think this
is one where I'm gonna take the I'm gonna take
the easy way out here and just say that I
don't know how the team actually feels. I've heard them
the comment publicly, and coach day Ball and Joe Shane
I both said many times over if Daniel's healthy, he's
(08:25):
the guy. And if I take them at their word,
then I gotta be honest with you. I'm actually really
comfortable with Romadoonsa or the Laitue neighbors, or Marvin Harrison Jr.
Probably not him at six. I feel great about one
of those picks and those values, but I don't have
a great feel about how rubber stamped. That feeling is
(08:46):
that Daniel Jones is the quarterback when healthy, with no ifs,
and the if in this case would be the opportunity
to trade up to number four. So I know this
is like not the job of a draft and in
most cases, but I feel as though either path the
Giants take is justifiable if you trade up. I understand
(09:07):
the methodology behind that. It's the idea that your ceiling
has raised and you can tap into the depth of
the wide receiver class later or the offensive tackle class later.
If you stand pat you're saying to yourself, I get it.
Last year did not go how we wanted it to.
But if I can do my math correctly, fifteen months ago,
(09:28):
maybe sixteen whatever, January twenty twenty three, Daniel Jones outdueled
Kirk Cousins, who just signed a massive contract, Cooper nearly
three hundred and fifty yards in a playoff win. And
when he signed that extension. You know, certainly some rhetoric
was you know, I still want to learn more about,
you know, whether Daniel Jones is more of the first
four years or the past year version of Daniel Jones.
(09:51):
But there were a lot of people that said he
earned that he bowled out this past year. The Giants
now have the most important part of the roster secured
for seasons.
Speaker 2 (10:00):
All right, feel two more one quick on the trade detail,
and then two I'll just let you give some of
your favorite Day two and Day three players.
Speaker 1 (10:07):
Sure, and I think the interesting part of this too.
Speaker 2 (10:08):
A lot of people think, well, it's an advantage for
the Giants to be at six because other team doesn't
have to moved back as far to.
Speaker 1 (10:13):
Make that trade. Right, It does, it is, But I
think in.
Speaker 2 (10:17):
Other ways, maybe the Chargers want a stockpile picks. Maybe
they want to get more picks, and you know, they
want to pick one of those tackles at twelve, and
they don't want to pick at six. So which one
of these teams and I'm thinking the Patriots is probably
the answer here? You think would prefer to stay in
that top six area, And which teams would prefer to
move into that eleven to thirteen area where the Vikings,
the Broncos and the Raiders are hanging out looking for quarterbacks.
Speaker 3 (10:38):
Yeah, that's actually a good point, because I think the
Chargers would be happy moving down further to add more picks,
like more volume, more swings. I think Arizona the team
has got to be really, really mindful of how far
they move down right, because they're glaring need at wide
receivers so obvious. And Marvin Harrison Junior, if you told
me Windley, you know six months ago, Hey, Marvin Harrison
Junior would go fourth overall in the draft. How do
(11:00):
you feel about that pick? Regardless of who it was,
picking Marvin Harrison Junior, and regardless of who went ahead
of him, I'd say unbelievable value. Right, unless Marvin Harrison
Junior had decided to retire from football, that's a justifiable
fourth overall pick if you move down from four to eleven.
I believe that while the wide receiver depth is terrific,
(11:20):
mel and I talked about this a plenty on first draft,
in whatever order you want to choose Marvin Harrison Junior,
elite neighbors, Roma Dunza, those guys are different. We're talking
about day one instant impact wide receiver one candidates, guys
who immediately lift the ceiling and the floor of your offense.
And I'd be careful because if if you move to eleven,
and you know, the draft is beautiful because there's mystery
(11:43):
and intrigue, I don't think you're getting one of those guys.
So if you move down from four to eleven, yeah,
you got a bunch of extra swings, but your wide
receiver room has a different complexion than it would have
if you just sit there or move from four to six,
because you're guaranteed to get one of those three if
you go from four to six.
Speaker 2 (11:58):
I agree, all right, field, we got about ninety seconds
left here. Give me your favorite Day two and Day
three players where it's just you watch them and you're like, damn,
I love this way this guy.
Speaker 1 (12:07):
I love the way this guy plays football.
Speaker 3 (12:09):
Yeah, I'll give me a few guys here that come
to mind. So Day two probably early second round, maybe
mid second round, somewhere in the gosh. I'll tell you what.
I got to be better about this As a draft
analysts as well, I'm so wired for my days in
scouting to remind people that every team sports a little
bit different and it just takes one team to allow
a player to go higher than you might expect. Right.
But Jalen Polk, wide receiver from Washington, one of my
(12:30):
favorite amidst a very deep wide receiver class, but so tough,
is excellent and contested catch situations, and I think we
always we evaluate I think probably a little bit too
much players making or having great hands. For like the
spectacular sports in our top ten plays that certainly matters, right,
those live on in infamy. But I like guys who
just he just may just make consistent catches inside outside
(12:55):
of their frame. I think Jale and Polk. I compare
him to a low post player in the NBA from
twenty years ago. Not a lot of flash, not a
lot of substance, but he gets buckets. Number another one
marsh On nieland Western Michigan edge. The sack production is
not going to blow you away, but you go back
and watch Western Michigan, especially this year when Bridan Fisk
was not there. He transferred to Florida State. Had a
great year with the Seminoles. The way they had to
(13:16):
utilize marsh On Neeland was he was the best player
by fault right, this guy, but he's so strong. You
don't see as many guys come in with as much
raw power as Marshaw Neiland has. He also had a
terrific three cone and short shuttle during the combine. Big
physical edge rusher who I think could go somewhere in
the mid second day three picks. Miles Harden safety corner
probably I think a corner from South Dakota. Frisky. The
(13:38):
ball just finds him, or I guess he finds the ball.
As a defensive player, he is a turnover forced waiting
to happen, has tremendous confidence. We're in a four to
five zero at the combine as well, so good enough
time to feel pretty strongly about that one. And then
I'm trying to think of one more. Day three. I
like Luke McCaffrey, wide receiver from Rice, who, of course,
if you're saying to yourself, as he related to Christian, yeah,
(13:59):
he is brother, one of his kid brothers, and he
is an awesome player. He used to be a quarterback
Nebraska transfers to Rice, ends up moving to wide receivers,
played there for two years. Has an awesome year this
past year double digit receiving touchdowns. Had twenty four contested
catches this past season. That number just some sort of
context on it. I was tied with Romadonsay for the
(14:19):
most in all the FBS. So anytime you're tied with
Romadunza for pretty much any good category, you have my attention.
So I wish that we gave more time to these
young players. Not every player comes in and lights the
NFL on fire and they're just dominant from day one,
like Odell Beckham junior when he was a rookie. Some
of these guys need time and Luke McCaffrey might be
a red shirt type player, but I'm betting on the
(14:41):
development of a player's come so far, it's just a
short period of time, and believe it or not, when
you're a McCaffrey, turns out you're wired pretty competitively. So
I do think this kid has a chance to become
a better player over the next two to three seasons.
Speaker 1 (14:53):
And his dad was a pretty good wide receiver too, which.
Speaker 3 (14:55):
Also, hey, everybody says his mom was the best athlete
in the family, Lisa, so I would say that as
far as the gene pool is considered, he won the
lottery in more Field.
Speaker 1 (15:05):
Keep it the great work. We appreciate the time my friend.
Speaker 3 (15:07):
Thank you. John, enjoyed it and I'll talk to you again,
hopefully sometime soon.
Speaker 5 (15:11):
You love turf, You're good at it, so you start
a turf fiz. Business grows, your savings grow, become the
most celebrated name in turf. Are you ready for all
that life brings?
Speaker 2 (15:25):
John Tottle podcast is brought to you by Citizens, the
official bank of the Giants.
Speaker 1 (15:28):
From game data.
Speaker 2 (15:29):
Every day, Citizens is made ready for giant fans and insights,
guidance and solutions. Learn more at citizens bank dot com.
We go from Field Yates the NFL Network and Bucky Brooks.
Bucky Brooks of course can be found on Path to
the Draft and NFL Network and all of their coverage
of the draft from April twenty fifth to April twenty
seventh on the NFL Network. And now we go from
(15:50):
Field Ya to ESPN to Bucky Brooks over at NFL Networking.
Cores find Bucky Brooks on their Path to the Draft
show every weekday on NFL Network. You'll also, of course,
because part of NFL Networks covers of the draft from
April twenty fifth to the twenty seventh in Detroit Bucky
John Schmelk here and he's brother for the Man Hope
Draft season, Trigo, Well man, how you doing.
Speaker 4 (16:10):
I'm good man. I'm getting excited. You know, you talk
about two weeks away from the draft, and so that's
always in the sad time to kind and finally see
where all these top prospects go.
Speaker 2 (16:18):
Yeah. Absolutely, we just got done talking to Field the
eates a lot about the Giants at the top of
being a quarter and potential of taking a quarterback.
Speaker 1 (16:25):
I have to give you a chance to get.
Speaker 2 (16:26):
Your North Carolina love in here though, And I want
to talk about Drake May for a second. You talk
about grading the flashes a lot, and I like that terminologies.
I think with Drake May, you do that, you can
see why he might have the highest upside of any
quarterback in the class.
Speaker 1 (16:40):
But for me personally, he's my number two guy. By
the way, I think he's great.
Speaker 2 (16:44):
I got in trouble with that with Sam Darnold when
I grated his flashes. I loved him a lot, and
then that hasn't worked out so well. So talk about
the balance you take in trying to grade flashes versus
the overall body of work when it comes to Drake May.
Speaker 4 (16:56):
Yeah, well, look, you're always trying to grade the flashes
because once they show you they can do it once,
they can do it again. But it's important to understand
the environment that you're trying to create to allow him
to really relive those splashes. And so for Drake May,
I think it's important that everyone understands. In the last
four years, he's only played two seasons. He didn't play
his final season in high school because of COVID. He
(17:17):
sat behind Sam Howell his freshman year at North Carolina
and then he played the last two years. So what
you're getting is a very talented player, but a very
inexperienced player, and the coaching staff must have a plan
to help him kind of find his way through the
National Football League as he's learning how to play the
game because he's an inexperienced player. But if you're able
(17:38):
to tap into that, build an offense around what he
does really well, which, look, man, he's super athletic, he
has big time arm talent. He's an a one kid
when it comes to all the intangibles. But it's about
putting them in a system where he doesn't have to
carry the offense early. Maybe he can manage it early
and then later in his career he can be able
to carry it.
Speaker 2 (17:56):
We talked about trading up with Field. How about the
concept of trading down for the Giants here at six Bucky,
do you think A, if there's no quarterback on the board,
they would be an opportunity to trade down. And if
you want one of those top three wide receivers in
that little cluster with Harrison Neighbors or dooms A, can
you afford to move down to maybe even let's say
the Bears decide we have one guy we really like,
(18:18):
they want to move from like nine to five. If
you're the Giants, would you consider something like that or
is that just too risky in case someone can even
jump you up to eight. If the Falcons think they
can trade down, still draft the good defensive player.
Speaker 1 (18:30):
If you're the Giants and you want to get one
of those top three whiteouts, no.
Speaker 4 (18:34):
If my heart is said on one of those top
three whiteouts, then I'm a stick and pick. I don't
want to get cute trying to get another pick or
anything like that when my player is there for me
to take. And given the way that all these things
are being mocked out, I mean you're gonna have your
pick of the top two of the top three receivers.
If Marvin Harrison Junior goes like we think he'll go,
(18:57):
but then you can be sitting there with elite neighbors
and Roma Dune Neighbors has the juice. He has the speed,
the quickness, the explosiveness. The last time we saw a
big LSU stand out play in New York, Oh there,
Beckham Junior. It looked pretty good. Roma Dunza is the
big body playmaker that is more in the mold of
a Jamar Chase physical playmaker. So for me, I don't
(19:17):
want to mess around. I want to have my pick
as opposed to let the board dictate what I'm gonna take.
And if I'm the Giants Joe Shane and Brian dave Ball,
I'm a sticking pick. I'm not gonna mess.
Speaker 1 (19:26):
Around as a scout.
Speaker 2 (19:27):
Take me inside the war room and the Giants are
sitting there, obviously this decision will be made long before
draft night, and they're just siding between a dounesay and neighbors.
How would you parse those two? Does it get down
to fit and your system? If they're graded so closely?
Tell me what that debate sounds like between the scouts,
coaches and decision makers in that war room when you're
trying to figure out how you're stacking neighbors in a
(19:49):
donsay given how close they are on most people's boards.
Speaker 4 (19:53):
You know, it depends on how the juice, like who
has the power when it comes to making the final pick.
But what has happened at this point, Like the scouts
have already presented their cases on both of the players,
and so if the players are similarly graded, it now
comes down to the coaches and really comes down to
the head coach or whoever can charge the offense. What
do we envision, what do we need at the position?
(20:15):
What do we need as a number one? Which one
do we believe is better capable of handling the responsibilities
that a number one receiver has to handle in our offense,
not in any offense, but in our offense. And so
that's what it comes down to. And then it's also, okay,
let's look at the quarterback. And if we're saying that
we will continue on with Daniel Jones, how can we
make his game better? Does he need someone who's a
(20:37):
catch and run special like a Malik Neighbors, or can
we get away with someone who's more of a jump
ball playmaker like Aroma Dunda. A lot of it has
to do with the personnel that you have, but also
the scheme that you want to run.
Speaker 2 (20:51):
What do you think in the modern day NFL Buckie
is more valuable that run after catch guy or that
true dynamic X like you just described.
Speaker 4 (20:59):
For I would say run after catch is really important.
And the reason run after catch is important is because
it allows you to employ a high completion perient of offense.
One that is easy for the quarterback, but it yields
big games. If you're one of those that are pushing
it down the field and you don't have wide receivers
that can break tackle or make things happen in space,
(21:20):
makes it really, really difficult to go to the length
of the field. And we know there's a direct correlation
between big plays, explosive plays, and scoring point and the
only way that you can score points in the next
football league you have to find a way to make
plays that are twenty yards along it.
Speaker 2 (21:34):
Yeah, I'm with you on that, one hundred percent. Final
one on the kind of quarterback wide receiver dynamic. Here
you mentioned Daniel Jones, and I've asked, I've got a
bunch of guests the last couple of weeks, how would
you think about the Giants decision as to whether or
not you want to draft a quarterback to either compete
with or play alongside or eventually replace Daniel Jones, A
guy they believed in enough to sign that big deal
to two years ago. Last year didn't go well, small
(21:55):
sample size, a lot of injuries, nothing went right around him.
The way I've thought about it is that if you
think a guy has a chance to be like a
top seven, top eight superhero type of quarterback. Pull the trigger,
but don't just pick one for the sake of replacing Daniel.
How would you think about that decision at six, which
is really could be something that defines the direction of
the franchise over the next few years.
Speaker 4 (22:15):
This will require a lot of discipline from the Giants
front office when it comes to picking, because what happens
is subconstantly, when you know you need something, you tend
to kind of influence the grade and to make sure
that the position of need is at the top where
you have one of the picks. But if we're really
gatting the player based on who are the best players
in this draft, well, then those quarterbacks might not be there,
(22:38):
because not only are you talking about the big three
wide receiver, but then you can talk about the offensive
linement that are available to kind of make some things.
You can never go wrong with taking the best player
because if you take a lot of the BPAs, you
end up having a roster and loaded with really good players,
and then that gives you an opportunity to do some
special stuff. I would expect Joe Shane being a throwback
scout I think here is the temptation is just going
(23:01):
to get the next quarterback, and he'll make sure that
the player that the Giants take it fix is the
best player available on the board.
Speaker 2 (23:08):
I'm curious how you think the teams from eleven to thirteen,
the Vikings, the Broncos, and the Raiders are going to
handle this Bucky in terms of trying to find their
next quarterback, because I think aside from the top three teams,
they are the three teams that are really most desperate
and I'll use that word to find the quarterback. How
aggressive are all three? I think we all know Minnesota
(23:30):
has kind of, you know, shown that they're going to
try to go up and get one. But how do
you think the Broncos and the Patriots, I mean, the
Raiders are going to handle this, especially since the Broncos
don't have that second round pick.
Speaker 4 (23:40):
Yeah, that'd be interesting and it'll be another test in
discipline for all those guys when it comes to grading
players for your team versus stretching and reaching for need picks.
At some point, these quarterbacks will be at a round
value or they'll be at a pick value where you
can confidently for the trigger and feel like, Okay, I'm
getting compartable value for what it is right now. They
(24:03):
feel like stretches and reaches, but look, you can stretch
to reach for a little bit because if a player
comes into your system and he fits, he's gonna play
really well and nobody will remember that you over so
that you picked him out of turn when it came
to the draft. You just gotta have conviction, and you
got to be able to back that conviction up with
like factual evidence that suggests, Okay, you know, we're making
(24:25):
a good decision. It's a little out of our league,
but we're gonna go with it because he will make
it right. If you feel good about the characters of
the player, you can gamble a little bit on some
of those things.
Speaker 1 (24:34):
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Speaker 2 (24:36):
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All right, Bucky, I want to jump to the second
round here. The Giants have a lot of needs, right
and they have to fall out of them. Let's assume
they go wide receiver in round one, so we'll take
that out of the mix, and we know tackles will
go a lot in round one, but then you get
(24:57):
the round two that might be.
Speaker 1 (24:59):
Flushed out a little bit.
Speaker 2 (25:00):
Where do you think the most depth is in this
draft when you get to that second and third round
on Day two, other than wide receiver, where there's going
to be a decent volume of players at these positions
that the Giants could attack.
Speaker 4 (25:12):
I would say, like the deepest part when we get
to it in those second and third rounds, it's going
to be the defensive back. Defensive back classes loaded with
guys that should go off the board in the second
and third round, whether it is she Met Milton coming
from Rutgers, Mikey Sandrastio coming from Michigan, I mean Ronardo
Green being a guy from Florida State that's really really
(25:35):
under the radar. There are a lot of guys out
there they can play against. Some nastiness to them, some
snap back to them when it comes to tackling that
can get a gunt. The defensive back classes one where
I think you can get tremendous value in the second,
third round.
Speaker 1 (25:47):
Yeah, I'm with you.
Speaker 2 (25:48):
Bucky and those three guys you mentioned are actually the
three guys that I have second round picked second round
grades on along with Rackstraw at the Missouri. What do
you think of the three bigger corners that I have?
I have them a little bit later some people have
them around to the TJ. Tampa is the cam Hearts,
the Kyrie. Jackson's that group of kind of bigger perimeter
corners which you're getting fewer and fewer of now coming
(26:09):
out of college football.
Speaker 4 (26:11):
Yeah, you're getting pure and fewer of them because most
of those guys make their way to the wide receiver line,
so they never get a chance to really play dB.
I'll say this about Jackson, the kidd from Oregon. Look,
he is a headhunter. He's a sticker. He does a
great depth stick and his nose in there. He is
not afraid of the smoke, and he goes and embraces it.
That's going to serve him well when you get to
the next level, because sometimes you may not be the
(26:32):
most talented player, but if you can get the game
played on your turns, you can find a way to
have success. He appears to kind of know who he
is and what he is and He plays with a
confidence because he knows what he can do and what
he can't do. They help when you think about like TJ. Tampa,
another big player coming out of Iowa State and thanks awareness,
but doesn't necessarily have the movement and the speed that
(26:54):
you like. And part of that is because we haven't
really been able to assess it fully, like in terms
of getting it all. But he's a big corner. Anytime
you have corners that are over six foot that can
run a little bit, he gives them a chance because
now you can match up with those opposing big guys
and they carry Jackson to me and just look a
fantastic player. You know. He's just really good player, dynamic, explosive,
(27:15):
physical gifts after it, loves the smoke and the energy
and all this other stuff. It's just a matter are
you comfortable enough with bringing him into the lockerom making
sure that the environment is the right fit for him.
Because the environment is right, the coach is right, he's
gonna win. He's gonna win at high level.
Speaker 1 (27:31):
The giant fans love a winner. It's why they love citizens.
Speaker 2 (27:34):
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Speaker 5 (27:45):
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Speaker 2 (28:00):
And then I think there are a couple other slot
guys I think interesting, the guys that can't play slot,
maybe they go outside too. I think Andrew Phillips out
of Kentucky's a good player. DJ James out of Auburn
a little bit light, but I think he moves extremely well.
Buck Josh Newton out of TCU. What do you think
of that kind of next group after that? You know
that that first group you mentioned in terms of green
Sands are still Melton, the DJ James, the Josh Newton
is Andrew Phillips.
Speaker 4 (28:21):
You know. I mean, I think there's value for all
those guys. And I think we're starting about You're talking
about more so the top of the fourth round, bottom
of the third round, where those guys can come in
the big thing when it comes to playing in the
slide and in a way, the slot defender needs to
be your best defender because he gets all the smoke
coming out right, and so you have to be very
nimble and very elecited to be able to handle all
(28:41):
that while also having a high football IQ because you
ask to play linebacker. Even though you're in a DV body,
you have to play linebacker. So how you fit inside
and outside of this game all matters. So you've got
to be you know, you got to get through an
experienced player in the slide to be able to get
it done, even though I do like the guy that
you're moving to.
Speaker 2 (29:00):
When would you start thinking about picking a safety in
this draft? And the Giants it looks like with their
new defensive coordinator Shane Bowen, they're going more to your
traditional split safety type of thing where you need guys
to be pretty versatile, to be able to move up
or down. Your thoughts when that first safety should go
based on the value of the players in the position,
and then which guys you might like in that type
(29:22):
of defense.
Speaker 4 (29:23):
First Tafe you should go, Tyler Newman should go. I
would say like mid second round that's when they kind
of go. I think people are still trying to understand
what exactly is the safety and how do we quantify
what he adds. But I would tell you that the
safety prevents the d ball from all over the top
of the defense keeps everything in front like just you know,
just they're able to do it. So to me, it's
(29:47):
about like as we just go back and we reflect
on the class, it's about making sure we go back
to the main point. Hey man, you can't go wrong
taking really really good players. Let's focus on the players
that fit into what we do. Let's not worry about
the fanfare on the outside. Let's make sure that we've
done the necessary work to look at them and say, Okay,
they fit, they fit our culture, they fit how we
(30:08):
want to play, they fit how we want to play
in two three years, if you get enough of those
players on just why the results and all this stuff
can naturally happen and take care of themselves.
Speaker 2 (30:18):
Giants have Dexter Lawrence, the defensive tackle book, broke the Buckie.
They have They just on Jordan Phillips, another big nose
tackle type of guy.
Speaker 1 (30:27):
What three techniques do you like? On day two?
Speaker 2 (30:30):
I know you have Breeden fisk A row row, Chris Jenkins,
Makai Wingle. There's a lot of guys, Michael Hall, which
one of those guys do you think you can get
really good value at in day as a guy that
you want to be able to get upfield and attack gaps.
Speaker 4 (30:44):
Look, man, you can't go wrong with like investing in
the family business. So let's go with Chris Jenkins Junior.
Because his dad was an All Pro player, two time
All Pro player, played for US when I was in
Carolina in the front office, and just his dad is
just a nationale animal. And I'm just thinking any of that, ooh,
it's gonna be like problematic. And so when I see
(31:06):
Chris and his ability to kind of colast to pat
the packet, to be able to get after to be
an up, high energy tempo player. Uh, he didn't get
out of debt all the way from dead, but he
certainly had the bloodlines to get it. And also, when
you got an uncle colin Colin Jenkins who also had
a nice career in the league, you're coming fully equipped
the training camp knowing how to play and how to
(31:26):
get things done right away.
Speaker 2 (31:28):
Yeah, Colin former Giant at the end of his career
as well. Good dude, and absolutely really good bulle of
lines there. How late, Bucky, do you think you can
wait if you want to try to get a running
back that can split some time with Devin Singletary and
Eric Gray and be a part of that room. Can
you wait till round four? Can you stretched around five?
When would you try to attack that position if you
the Giants, given the other needs you have on the roster.
Speaker 4 (31:51):
Know what position we're talking about again? Oh, running back?
So now when we go to running back, like, there'll
be plenty of running backs that are available on day three,
and they're gonna be good running backs that are available.
If I'm not in a hurry to get it done,
I'm gonna wait. I'mna wait to this round to be
able to kind of like get into it and find
my player guys that are of interest that could be available.
(32:13):
Frank Goorg Junior could be there. Not necessarily the fleet
is afoot, but man, just a natural runner Jit or
Blug can scoot through and make plays happen. Bucky Irving
is another one that can kind of do it like
make make plays on a pamet, but also can kind
of run downhill a little bit. I'll give you a
big surprise because I know giants love I mean they
(32:33):
absolutely love Wisconsin guys. Going on our way back to
round day. And how about Braylen Allen, a big running
back from Wisconsin physical for whatever reason, didn't get a
lot of opportunities this last year. But this dude can play.
And I think if you look at the way the
Bills have played snug, they want to they want to
play a physical brand. He's used that he played at Wisconsin,
knows how to get down.
Speaker 2 (32:54):
All right, two more position questions, But before I get
your prediction at six height end, I think is interesting.
I only have I think three players and brock Bowers
Round one two players with with with Day two grades,
who are maybe some of your Day three tight ends
that that kind of jump out to you specifically that
you really like that coup that could provide some value.
Speaker 4 (33:12):
Uh, let's see THEO Johnson and fanned State is a
guy that could find his way down there, super athletic,
free tore it up at the combine. Body beautiful kid.
Meaning when you hear me say body beautiful guy, that man,
if he's the first one off the bus, you feel like,
oh boy, I mean bad we got a bad hand.
So I would say Theo Johnson is one. Dalla Holker
(33:34):
from Colorado State is another one. Really showed up and
performed well at the East West Rine game. Uh. Those
two guys that will keep it close out.
Speaker 1 (33:42):
And then how about interior offensive line.
Speaker 2 (33:44):
The Giants want to continue to show up their guard
spot any day. Two or three guys that that really
jump out at you, that that you like, that could
contribute you thinking guard and maybe eventually develop into a starter.
Speaker 4 (33:56):
Yeah. No, there's some guys and you guys have been
in the northeast, will right on the northeast and we'll
go to Yuka and we'll go get Chris Haynes, who
is not only a high motor player, plays the game
the right way, is built to play the game the
right way. Just being able to kind of have that
small lebrolla mentality at the point of attack is important.
It's important for a run heavy team. So I would
(34:20):
think Hayes has an opportunity to go and be a guy,
and then everybody else is kind of like a hot
podge of like, oh, I played multiple sports, I do
all this or whatever. So but there's some other good
guys that are available to smother ones that are making
Cooper BB will be one of those that falls a lot.
But you get investigating and really be open about how
(34:41):
you want to play them so everyone knows what they're
getting into.
Speaker 2 (34:44):
And then finally, when all said and done, obviously it
depends what happens one through five. What do you think
eventually the Giants do and they pull the trigger at
number six, I.
Speaker 4 (34:51):
Think as much as they try and get up, I
think they end up falling. Sure, I think they end
up getting a Constellation prize and not the quarterback who
wanted to Playmakers and the platemaker that gets.
Speaker 2 (35:04):
Which is, by the way, not a bad consolation prize.
By the way, I think you very happy if that
ends up happening. But good stuff anything you want to
put out there, promote anything that dropped you beside the
stuff I mentioned with the network.
Speaker 4 (35:14):
No, man, it's all good. I really appreciate you having
me on. It's always fun at the time of year.
I look forward to seeing what have the Giants full
laws with the number.
Speaker 2 (35:23):
You guys must be right in the middle of your
high school summer practice A. I would imagine right at this.
Speaker 1 (35:27):
Point you rolling.
Speaker 4 (35:28):
We're rolling a little bit. We just we're just beginning
to kind of kick it off and run around and
do stuff, but it's fun, a lot of fun.
Speaker 2 (35:34):
Bucky Brokes, Nphone Network, thanks for joining us on the
Giants Little Podcast.
Speaker 1 (35:36):
Everybody will see you next time.
It's time to get inside the Giants huts. That's Giants.
Dunt come get on my giants, bull give me some job.
Part of the Giants Podcast Network, Let's roll.
Speaker 2 (00:10):
Welcome to another Giants Little podcast, brought to you by Citizens,
the official bank of the Giants. How to it be
joined for the second straight year by Field Yates, who
is now a draft analyst for ESPN. And Field, I
wonder if you knew exactly what you were getting into
when you went from host to analysts and all the
extra work it's put on your plate trying to manage
two young children in a home much like I am.
Speaker 3 (00:30):
Yeah, it's it's it's certainly every day is a challenge,
but in the best way possible, right. I mean, the
draft is an event that I know you and I
have loved since we were you know, like the age
of our children right now, So I certainly will complain
about covering the draft. I'd say the biggest difference between
this role and sort of playing the point guard role
in the past is it's like, you know, people do
care about players beyond let's say the first fifty or so, right,
(00:52):
But as you know, like ninety seven percent of the
coverage up until the draft is about that top fifty
or so players. Heck, a lot of it's about the
first like twelve or fifteen picks, right, I mean the
quarterbacks in this year's class, the wide receivers, bowers, et cetera.
But I got a really you know, my biggest thing
this year is recognizing that there are two hundred and
fifty seven picks and we want to give some time
(01:15):
to all two hundred and fifty seven of them, or
at least the ones.
Speaker 4 (01:18):
That you know.
Speaker 3 (01:19):
Of course, on a Day three a lot of commercial breaks,
as you can imagine during a seven hour broadcast, So
when my guy's name is called during our broadcast, we
want to make sure that we are doing our best
to provide insight on that pick, whether it's fourth, fifth, sixth,
or seventh round pick, whether it's a small school guy,
whether it's a big school guy. Because there are plenty
of draft success stories that prove that is certainly worth
(01:40):
paying attention to Day three at the NFL Draft.
Speaker 2 (01:42):
And by the way, go check out Field on First
Draft with mil Kaypers twice a week. It's a podcast
is on the YouTube channel. I love your shows and
you guys dig into the the day two and three guys,
and I know Mel likes doing that too. You guys
do a great job. But let's start at the top
field real quick. You're plugged into the league. Do you
have any feel yet what the Patriots are gonna do
with three? We might not know what quarterback Washington is
(02:02):
taking it to, but we know they're taking a quarterback.
Speaker 1 (02:05):
Do you have an.
Speaker 2 (02:05):
Idea if the Patriots are trying to get out yet
or or what they're thinking at that spot?
Speaker 3 (02:10):
Yeah, I feel good about the first two picks. You know,
Kayleb Williams, you know he can look at houses on
Zillo right now if we wanted to in Chicago. That's
how secure that pick is. And then Jayden Daniels, I
think is gonna end up being a Washington commander by
the time we get to April twenty fifth, which is
two weeks away from when you and I are having
this conversation right now. And then I think the Patriots,
and I'm following the lead of some of the public
(02:31):
comments that have been made this year. With Bill Belichick
no longer the head coach, I would say that you
know you're hearing a little bit more from the organization
for better or worse. I'm not exactly sure where we
land on that as of yet, but you know, Drod Mayo,
the new head coach, just talks about the importance of
a quarterback. Even Elliott Wolf, who's now kind of pulling
a trigger for them in the personnel department, talked about
the quarterback position during the combine, not quite as transparently,
(02:53):
but did acknowledge it. And then Robert Craft, the owner
of the team, who, despite the fact that he is
not the person who is making the draft picks, he
says he wants a quarterback of pick three the GM
or the de facto GM, and the head coach say, Okay,
we're gonna find the best one for you. So I
think the Patriots end up taking a quarterback at number
three overall. And I'll use some of the teams that
are not picking in the first three as examples as
(03:15):
to why the opportunity cost is really really difficult to
bypass if you are a team like the Patriots this year.
Is that if you're the Patriots and you don't take
a quarterback at three. First of all, we know this class, right,
We're two weeks away from the draft beginning we know
what this class looks like, and at least to my evaluation,
there are at least three quarterbacks that are worthy of
a top three overall pick. I think Drake May part
(03:37):
of that conversation as well. So while you could have
a player next year in the draft, you could have
ten quarterbacks who are superior to Caleb Williams and Jayden
Daniels and Drake May and Jjim McCarthy, you could also
have zero, right, I mean, we've seen this year to year, right,
A couple of seasons ago, a couple of years ago,
the Steelers take Kenny Pickett round one. He's traded within
two years. By the way, he was the only quarterback
taken in the first two rounds, much less like you know,
(03:59):
the first five picks. He one in the twenties for Pittsburgh.
So there's a certainty right beyond that if you take
a don't take a quarterback and instead trade down, they're
gonna fill a lot of your other needs, most likely
wide receiver, offensive tackled for the Patriots primary needs as well.
But a year from now, you could be the eighth
pick and you could be saying, all right, well, what
would it have cost Atlanta, who if they didn't land
(04:22):
Kirk Cousins, you better believe they were gonna be in
the quarterback market in the draft. It might cost them.
I'm just making this up. Eight plus they're twenty twenty
five first plus they're twenty twenty six first or something
like that. So the Patriots could be making the same
move in reverse a year from now. So, whether it
was the Patriots, whether it was the Commander's, if it
(04:42):
was any team at three that needed a quarterback, I
would have vouched for taking a quarter I will vouch
for taking a quarterback at three and keeping it simple.
Speaker 1 (04:52):
And it's a little bit of a different situation.
Speaker 2 (04:54):
I think the Giants in their war room is probably
are probably having a similar conversation, right yeah, if you
get closer to five one hundred, you're picking fourteenth. And
let's say you decide, all right, we do want to
make a quarterback switch. Well a, is there a guy
out there you want be? The price team up is
really high, but even this year field, it's opportunity cost
to your point, right, you have an opportunity to get
a great player at a premium position, whether it's wide
(05:15):
receiver or offensive tackle. If you want to go that
way in this draft, you're gonna have a chance at
one of those two spots, and you're pretty damn sure
other player is gonna be good. Yeah, you can pick
a quarterback at six, but honestly, with Arizona and the
Chargers there, they're looking to get out.
Speaker 1 (05:30):
I think both of us agree on that.
Speaker 2 (05:31):
So you're gonna have that fourth quarterback picked in that
area ahead of the Giants. So not only you have
to spend the capitol on a quarterback, you have to
move up and you probably send next year's one to
get into.
Speaker 1 (05:43):
One of those spots to draft the quarterback.
Speaker 2 (05:45):
So how would you weigh that opportunity cost if you're
the Giants who do have a young quarterback place in
Daniel Jones, who you know you believe enough in to
sign to a long term contract two years ago. Last
year didn't go well. You know, there's a lot of
different reasons for that. We don't need to get into those.
How would you weigh that up opportunity costs and decision
that the Giants are making it six compared to what
you just talked about with New England.
Speaker 3 (06:05):
I think the hardest part of the equation that I
have not yet been able to figure out, is what's
the cost? You mentioned the possibility of next year's one.
I think I'm like, I have speculated the same, but
I don't know that for sure, right, I mean the
move up that we keep using data points when we
are trying to evaluate what it might cost to move
up from one spot to the next. And because fairly
(06:26):
recently twenty twenty one we had the forty nine ers
go from twelve to three, we are all using the
idea of about three first round picks, including this year's pick,
to move up. Right, So if you're Arizona, you might
get eleven twenty three and a next year one from
Minnesota as an example, don't I mean, I can't guarantee
that's what's what's going to cost. But if I'm Arizona,
(06:47):
I'm saying, did you see what happened three years ago? Like,
that's exactly what we are thinking. Meanwhile, when was the
last time we had like a six to four move
up for a quarterback?
Speaker 1 (06:56):
I think it was really yet it wasn't like three twos.
Speaker 3 (06:58):
I think six three when they moved up in twenty
eighteen to grab Sam Darnald. But you know, to me.
The difference there was that the Jets that was so early.
That was actually, I believe on Saint Patrick's day, So
it was March, way before the draft, and it was
like the Jets were saying at that time, we're comfortable
with whoever falls to three, right, there was not nearly
(07:20):
as much certainty about which quarterback was going to be
taken number one overall. A lot of people thought it
could have been Sam Darnald, some thought could have been
Josh Allen. So I think Draft Twitter was advocating probably
correctly for Lamar Jackson. You know, Josh or Lamar obviously
the two crown jewels of that class. But you know,
it's a different marketplace now. It feels like now that
(07:42):
we've had a steeper cost paid by somebody else, the
Cardinals and the Viking and the Chargers have that leverage
of we're not gonna give it away to you, right So,
and the other part of this is that Arizona and
the Chargers have very appealing options at four and five
if they stay there, right. So for Arizona, it's not
just all right, hey, you guys are offering us a
deal less than what Miami got a few years ago.
(08:04):
It's also that we're bypassing Marvin Harrison Jr. Right, So
anyways to go to the Giants. I don't have a
great feel of what it would cost to go from
six to four to six to five. I think this
is one where I'm gonna take the I'm gonna take
the easy way out here and just say that I
don't know how the team actually feels. I've heard them
the comment publicly, and coach day Ball and Joe Shane
I both said many times over if Daniel's healthy, he's
(08:25):
the guy. And if I take them at their word,
then I gotta be honest with you. I'm actually really
comfortable with Romadoonsa or the Laitue neighbors, or Marvin Harrison Jr.
Probably not him at six. I feel great about one
of those picks and those values, but I don't have
a great feel about how rubber stamped. That feeling is
(08:46):
that Daniel Jones is the quarterback when healthy, with no ifs,
and the if in this case would be the opportunity
to trade up to number four. So I know this
is like not the job of a draft and in
most cases, but I feel as though either path the
Giants take is justifiable if you trade up. I understand
(09:07):
the methodology behind that. It's the idea that your ceiling
has raised and you can tap into the depth of
the wide receiver class later or the offensive tackle class later.
If you stand pat you're saying to yourself, I get it.
Last year did not go how we wanted it to.
But if I can do my math correctly, fifteen months ago,
(09:28):
maybe sixteen whatever, January twenty twenty three, Daniel Jones outdueled
Kirk Cousins, who just signed a massive contract, Cooper nearly
three hundred and fifty yards in a playoff win. And
when he signed that extension. You know, certainly some rhetoric
was you know, I still want to learn more about,
you know, whether Daniel Jones is more of the first
four years or the past year version of Daniel Jones.
(09:51):
But there were a lot of people that said he
earned that he bowled out this past year. The Giants
now have the most important part of the roster secured
for seasons.
Speaker 2 (10:00):
All right, feel two more one quick on the trade detail,
and then two I'll just let you give some of
your favorite Day two and Day three players.
Speaker 1 (10:07):
Sure, and I think the interesting part of this too.
Speaker 2 (10:08):
A lot of people think, well, it's an advantage for
the Giants to be at six because other team doesn't
have to moved back as far to.
Speaker 1 (10:13):
Make that trade. Right, It does, it is, But I
think in.
Speaker 2 (10:17):
Other ways, maybe the Chargers want a stockpile picks. Maybe
they want to get more picks, and you know, they
want to pick one of those tackles at twelve, and
they don't want to pick at six. So which one
of these teams and I'm thinking the Patriots is probably
the answer here? You think would prefer to stay in
that top six area, And which teams would prefer to
move into that eleven to thirteen area where the Vikings,
the Broncos and the Raiders are hanging out looking for quarterbacks.
Speaker 3 (10:38):
Yeah, that's actually a good point, because I think the
Chargers would be happy moving down further to add more picks,
like more volume, more swings. I think Arizona the team
has got to be really, really mindful of how far
they move down right, because they're glaring need at wide
receivers so obvious. And Marvin Harrison Junior, if you told
me Windley, you know six months ago, Hey, Marvin Harrison
Junior would go fourth overall in the draft. How do
(11:00):
you feel about that pick? Regardless of who it was,
picking Marvin Harrison Junior, and regardless of who went ahead
of him, I'd say unbelievable value. Right, unless Marvin Harrison
Junior had decided to retire from football, that's a justifiable
fourth overall pick if you move down from four to eleven.
I believe that while the wide receiver depth is terrific,
(11:20):
mel and I talked about this a plenty on first draft,
in whatever order you want to choose Marvin Harrison Junior,
elite neighbors, Roma Dunza, those guys are different. We're talking
about day one instant impact wide receiver one candidates, guys
who immediately lift the ceiling and the floor of your offense.
And I'd be careful because if if you move to eleven,
and you know, the draft is beautiful because there's mystery
(11:43):
and intrigue, I don't think you're getting one of those guys.
So if you move down from four to eleven, yeah,
you got a bunch of extra swings, but your wide
receiver room has a different complexion than it would have
if you just sit there or move from four to six,
because you're guaranteed to get one of those three if
you go from four to six.
Speaker 2 (11:58):
I agree, all right, field, we got about ninety seconds
left here. Give me your favorite Day two and Day
three players where it's just you watch them and you're like, damn,
I love this way this guy.
Speaker 1 (12:07):
I love the way this guy plays football.
Speaker 3 (12:09):
Yeah, I'll give me a few guys here that come
to mind. So Day two probably early second round, maybe
mid second round, somewhere in the gosh. I'll tell you what.
I got to be better about this As a draft
analysts as well, I'm so wired for my days in
scouting to remind people that every team sports a little
bit different and it just takes one team to allow
a player to go higher than you might expect. Right.
But Jalen Polk, wide receiver from Washington, one of my
(12:30):
favorite amidst a very deep wide receiver class, but so tough,
is excellent and contested catch situations, and I think we
always we evaluate I think probably a little bit too
much players making or having great hands. For like the
spectacular sports in our top ten plays that certainly matters, right,
those live on in infamy. But I like guys who
just he just may just make consistent catches inside outside
(12:55):
of their frame. I think Jale and Polk. I compare
him to a low post player in the NBA from
twenty years ago. Not a lot of flash, not a
lot of substance, but he gets buckets. Number another one
marsh On nieland Western Michigan edge. The sack production is
not going to blow you away, but you go back
and watch Western Michigan, especially this year when Bridan Fisk
was not there. He transferred to Florida State. Had a
great year with the Seminoles. The way they had to
(13:16):
utilize marsh On Neeland was he was the best player
by fault right, this guy, but he's so strong. You
don't see as many guys come in with as much
raw power as Marshaw Neiland has. He also had a
terrific three cone and short shuttle during the combine. Big
physical edge rusher who I think could go somewhere in
the mid second day three picks. Miles Harden safety corner
probably I think a corner from South Dakota. Frisky. The
(13:38):
ball just finds him, or I guess he finds the ball.
As a defensive player, he is a turnover forced waiting
to happen, has tremendous confidence. We're in a four to
five zero at the combine as well, so good enough
time to feel pretty strongly about that one. And then
I'm trying to think of one more. Day three. I
like Luke McCaffrey, wide receiver from Rice, who, of course,
if you're saying to yourself, as he related to Christian, yeah,
(13:59):
he is brother, one of his kid brothers, and he
is an awesome player. He used to be a quarterback
Nebraska transfers to Rice, ends up moving to wide receivers,
played there for two years. Has an awesome year this
past year double digit receiving touchdowns. Had twenty four contested
catches this past season. That number just some sort of
context on it. I was tied with Romadonsay for the
(14:19):
most in all the FBS. So anytime you're tied with
Romadunza for pretty much any good category, you have my attention.
So I wish that we gave more time to these
young players. Not every player comes in and lights the
NFL on fire and they're just dominant from day one,
like Odell Beckham junior when he was a rookie. Some
of these guys need time and Luke McCaffrey might be
a red shirt type player, but I'm betting on the
(14:41):
development of a player's come so far, it's just a
short period of time, and believe it or not, when
you're a McCaffrey, turns out you're wired pretty competitively. So
I do think this kid has a chance to become
a better player over the next two to three seasons.
Speaker 1 (14:53):
And his dad was a pretty good wide receiver too, which.
Speaker 3 (14:55):
Also, hey, everybody says his mom was the best athlete
in the family, Lisa, so I would say that as
far as the gene pool is considered, he won the
lottery in more Field.
Speaker 1 (15:05):
Keep it the great work. We appreciate the time my friend.
Speaker 3 (15:07):
Thank you. John, enjoyed it and I'll talk to you again,
hopefully sometime soon.
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We go from Field Yates the NFL Network and Bucky Brooks.
Bucky Brooks of course can be found on Path to
the Draft and NFL Network and all of their coverage
of the draft from April twenty fifth to April twenty
seventh on the NFL Network. And now we go from
(15:50):
Field Ya to ESPN to Bucky Brooks over at NFL Networking.
Cores find Bucky Brooks on their Path to the Draft
show every weekday on NFL Network. You'll also, of course,
because part of NFL Networks covers of the draft from
April twenty fifth to the twenty seventh in Detroit Bucky
John Schmelk here and he's brother for the Man Hope
Draft season, Trigo, Well man, how you doing.
Speaker 4 (16:10):
I'm good man. I'm getting excited. You know, you talk
about two weeks away from the draft, and so that's
always in the sad time to kind and finally see
where all these top prospects go.
Speaker 2 (16:18):
Yeah. Absolutely, we just got done talking to Field the
eates a lot about the Giants at the top of
being a quarter and potential of taking a quarterback.
Speaker 1 (16:25):
I have to give you a chance to get.
Speaker 2 (16:26):
Your North Carolina love in here though, And I want
to talk about Drake May for a second. You talk
about grading the flashes a lot, and I like that terminologies.
I think with Drake May, you do that, you can
see why he might have the highest upside of any
quarterback in the class.
Speaker 1 (16:40):
But for me personally, he's my number two guy. By
the way, I think he's great.
Speaker 2 (16:44):
I got in trouble with that with Sam Darnold when
I grated his flashes. I loved him a lot, and
then that hasn't worked out so well. So talk about
the balance you take in trying to grade flashes versus
the overall body of work when it comes to Drake May.
Speaker 4 (16:56):
Yeah, well, look, you're always trying to grade the flashes
because once they show you they can do it once,
they can do it again. But it's important to understand
the environment that you're trying to create to allow him
to really relive those splashes. And so for Drake May,
I think it's important that everyone understands. In the last
four years, he's only played two seasons. He didn't play
his final season in high school because of COVID. He
(17:17):
sat behind Sam Howell his freshman year at North Carolina
and then he played the last two years. So what
you're getting is a very talented player, but a very
inexperienced player, and the coaching staff must have a plan
to help him kind of find his way through the
National Football League as he's learning how to play the
game because he's an inexperienced player. But if you're able
(17:38):
to tap into that, build an offense around what he
does really well, which, look, man, he's super athletic, he
has big time arm talent. He's an a one kid
when it comes to all the intangibles. But it's about
putting them in a system where he doesn't have to
carry the offense early. Maybe he can manage it early
and then later in his career he can be able
to carry it.
Speaker 2 (17:56):
We talked about trading up with Field. How about the
concept of trading down for the Giants here at six Bucky,
do you think A, if there's no quarterback on the board,
they would be an opportunity to trade down. And if
you want one of those top three wide receivers in
that little cluster with Harrison Neighbors or dooms A, can
you afford to move down to maybe even let's say
the Bears decide we have one guy we really like,
(18:18):
they want to move from like nine to five. If
you're the Giants, would you consider something like that or
is that just too risky in case someone can even
jump you up to eight. If the Falcons think they
can trade down, still draft the good defensive player.
Speaker 1 (18:30):
If you're the Giants and you want to get one
of those top three whiteouts, no.
Speaker 4 (18:34):
If my heart is said on one of those top
three whiteouts, then I'm a stick and pick. I don't
want to get cute trying to get another pick or
anything like that when my player is there for me
to take. And given the way that all these things
are being mocked out, I mean you're gonna have your
pick of the top two of the top three receivers.
If Marvin Harrison Junior goes like we think he'll go,
(18:57):
but then you can be sitting there with elite neighbors
and Roma Dune Neighbors has the juice. He has the speed,
the quickness, the explosiveness. The last time we saw a
big LSU stand out play in New York, Oh there,
Beckham Junior. It looked pretty good. Roma Dunza is the
big body playmaker that is more in the mold of
a Jamar Chase physical playmaker. So for me, I don't
(19:17):
want to mess around. I want to have my pick
as opposed to let the board dictate what I'm gonna take.
And if I'm the Giants Joe Shane and Brian dave Ball,
I'm a sticking pick. I'm not gonna mess.
Speaker 1 (19:26):
Around as a scout.
Speaker 2 (19:27):
Take me inside the war room and the Giants are
sitting there, obviously this decision will be made long before
draft night, and they're just siding between a dounesay and neighbors.
How would you parse those two? Does it get down
to fit and your system? If they're graded so closely?
Tell me what that debate sounds like between the scouts,
coaches and decision makers in that war room when you're
trying to figure out how you're stacking neighbors in a
(19:49):
donsay given how close they are on most people's boards.
Speaker 4 (19:53):
You know, it depends on how the juice, like who
has the power when it comes to making the final pick.
But what has happened at this point, Like the scouts
have already presented their cases on both of the players,
and so if the players are similarly graded, it now
comes down to the coaches and really comes down to
the head coach or whoever can charge the offense. What
do we envision, what do we need at the position?
(20:15):
What do we need as a number one? Which one
do we believe is better capable of handling the responsibilities
that a number one receiver has to handle in our offense,
not in any offense, but in our offense. And so
that's what it comes down to. And then it's also, okay,
let's look at the quarterback. And if we're saying that
we will continue on with Daniel Jones, how can we
make his game better? Does he need someone who's a
(20:37):
catch and run special like a Malik Neighbors, or can
we get away with someone who's more of a jump
ball playmaker like Aroma Dunda. A lot of it has
to do with the personnel that you have, but also
the scheme that you want to run.
Speaker 2 (20:51):
What do you think in the modern day NFL Buckie
is more valuable that run after catch guy or that
true dynamic X like you just described.
Speaker 4 (20:59):
For I would say run after catch is really important.
And the reason run after catch is important is because
it allows you to employ a high completion perient of offense.
One that is easy for the quarterback, but it yields
big games. If you're one of those that are pushing
it down the field and you don't have wide receivers
that can break tackle or make things happen in space,
(21:20):
makes it really, really difficult to go to the length
of the field. And we know there's a direct correlation
between big plays, explosive plays, and scoring point and the
only way that you can score points in the next
football league you have to find a way to make
plays that are twenty yards along it.
Speaker 2 (21:34):
Yeah, I'm with you on that, one hundred percent. Final
one on the kind of quarterback wide receiver dynamic. Here
you mentioned Daniel Jones, and I've asked, I've got a
bunch of guests the last couple of weeks, how would
you think about the Giants decision as to whether or
not you want to draft a quarterback to either compete
with or play alongside or eventually replace Daniel Jones, A
guy they believed in enough to sign that big deal
to two years ago. Last year didn't go well, small
(21:55):
sample size, a lot of injuries, nothing went right around him.
The way I've thought about it is that if you
think a guy has a chance to be like a
top seven, top eight superhero type of quarterback. Pull the trigger,
but don't just pick one for the sake of replacing Daniel.
How would you think about that decision at six, which
is really could be something that defines the direction of
the franchise over the next few years.
Speaker 4 (22:15):
This will require a lot of discipline from the Giants
front office when it comes to picking, because what happens
is subconstantly, when you know you need something, you tend
to kind of influence the grade and to make sure
that the position of need is at the top where
you have one of the picks. But if we're really
gatting the player based on who are the best players
in this draft, well, then those quarterbacks might not be there,
(22:38):
because not only are you talking about the big three
wide receiver, but then you can talk about the offensive
linement that are available to kind of make some things.
You can never go wrong with taking the best player
because if you take a lot of the BPAs, you
end up having a roster and loaded with really good players,
and then that gives you an opportunity to do some
special stuff. I would expect Joe Shane being a throwback
scout I think here is the temptation is just going
(23:01):
to get the next quarterback, and he'll make sure that
the player that the Giants take it fix is the
best player available on the board.
Speaker 2 (23:08):
I'm curious how you think the teams from eleven to thirteen,
the Vikings, the Broncos, and the Raiders are going to
handle this Bucky in terms of trying to find their
next quarterback, because I think aside from the top three teams,
they are the three teams that are really most desperate
and I'll use that word to find the quarterback. How
aggressive are all three? I think we all know Minnesota
(23:30):
has kind of, you know, shown that they're going to
try to go up and get one. But how do
you think the Broncos and the Patriots, I mean, the
Raiders are going to handle this, especially since the Broncos
don't have that second round pick.
Speaker 4 (23:40):
Yeah, that'd be interesting and it'll be another test in
discipline for all those guys when it comes to grading
players for your team versus stretching and reaching for need picks.
At some point, these quarterbacks will be at a round
value or they'll be at a pick value where you
can confidently for the trigger and feel like, Okay, I'm
getting compartable value for what it is right now. They
(24:03):
feel like stretches and reaches, but look, you can stretch
to reach for a little bit because if a player
comes into your system and he fits, he's gonna play
really well and nobody will remember that you over so
that you picked him out of turn when it came
to the draft. You just gotta have conviction, and you
got to be able to back that conviction up with
like factual evidence that suggests, Okay, you know, we're making
(24:25):
a good decision. It's a little out of our league,
but we're gonna go with it because he will make
it right. If you feel good about the characters of
the player, you can gamble a little bit on some
of those things.
Speaker 1 (24:34):
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All right, Bucky, I want to jump to the second
round here. The Giants have a lot of needs, right
and they have to fall out of them. Let's assume
they go wide receiver in round one, so we'll take
that out of the mix, and we know tackles will
go a lot in round one, but then you get
(24:57):
the round two that might be.
Speaker 1 (24:59):
Flushed out a little bit.
Speaker 2 (25:00):
Where do you think the most depth is in this
draft when you get to that second and third round
on Day two, other than wide receiver, where there's going
to be a decent volume of players at these positions
that the Giants could attack.
Speaker 4 (25:12):
I would say, like the deepest part when we get
to it in those second and third rounds, it's going
to be the defensive back. Defensive back classes loaded with
guys that should go off the board in the second
and third round, whether it is she Met Milton coming
from Rutgers, Mikey Sandrastio coming from Michigan, I mean Ronardo
Green being a guy from Florida State that's really really
(25:35):
under the radar. There are a lot of guys out
there they can play against. Some nastiness to them, some
snap back to them when it comes to tackling that
can get a gunt. The defensive back classes one where
I think you can get tremendous value in the second,
third round.
Speaker 1 (25:47):
Yeah, I'm with you.
Speaker 2 (25:48):
Bucky and those three guys you mentioned are actually the
three guys that I have second round picked second round
grades on along with Rackstraw at the Missouri. What do
you think of the three bigger corners that I have?
I have them a little bit later some people have
them around to the TJ. Tampa is the cam Hearts,
the Kyrie. Jackson's that group of kind of bigger perimeter
corners which you're getting fewer and fewer of now coming
(26:09):
out of college football.
Speaker 4 (26:11):
Yeah, you're getting pure and fewer of them because most
of those guys make their way to the wide receiver line,
so they never get a chance to really play dB.
I'll say this about Jackson, the kidd from Oregon. Look,
he is a headhunter. He's a sticker. He does a
great depth stick and his nose in there. He is
not afraid of the smoke, and he goes and embraces it.
That's going to serve him well when you get to
the next level, because sometimes you may not be the
(26:32):
most talented player, but if you can get the game
played on your turns, you can find a way to
have success. He appears to kind of know who he
is and what he is and He plays with a
confidence because he knows what he can do and what
he can't do. They help when you think about like TJ. Tampa,
another big player coming out of Iowa State and thanks awareness,
but doesn't necessarily have the movement and the speed that
(26:54):
you like. And part of that is because we haven't
really been able to assess it fully, like in terms
of getting it all. But he's a big corner. Anytime
you have corners that are over six foot that can
run a little bit, he gives them a chance because
now you can match up with those opposing big guys
and they carry Jackson to me and just look a
fantastic player. You know. He's just really good player, dynamic, explosive,
(27:15):
physical gifts after it, loves the smoke and the energy
and all this other stuff. It's just a matter are
you comfortable enough with bringing him into the lockerom making
sure that the environment is the right fit for him.
Because the environment is right, the coach is right, he's
gonna win. He's gonna win at high level.
Speaker 1 (27:31):
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Speaker 2 (28:00):
And then I think there are a couple other slot
guys I think interesting, the guys that can't play slot,
maybe they go outside too. I think Andrew Phillips out
of Kentucky's a good player. DJ James out of Auburn
a little bit light, but I think he moves extremely well.
Buck Josh Newton out of TCU. What do you think
of that kind of next group after that? You know
that that first group you mentioned in terms of green
Sands are still Melton, the DJ James, the Josh Newton
is Andrew Phillips.
Speaker 4 (28:21):
You know. I mean, I think there's value for all
those guys. And I think we're starting about You're talking
about more so the top of the fourth round, bottom
of the third round, where those guys can come in
the big thing when it comes to playing in the
slide and in a way, the slot defender needs to
be your best defender because he gets all the smoke
coming out right, and so you have to be very
nimble and very elecited to be able to handle all
(28:41):
that while also having a high football IQ because you
ask to play linebacker. Even though you're in a DV body,
you have to play linebacker. So how you fit inside
and outside of this game all matters. So you've got
to be you know, you got to get through an
experienced player in the slide to be able to get
it done, even though I do like the guy that
you're moving to.
Speaker 2 (29:00):
When would you start thinking about picking a safety in
this draft? And the Giants it looks like with their
new defensive coordinator Shane Bowen, they're going more to your
traditional split safety type of thing where you need guys
to be pretty versatile, to be able to move up
or down. Your thoughts when that first safety should go
based on the value of the players in the position,
and then which guys you might like in that type
(29:22):
of defense.
Speaker 4 (29:23):
First Tafe you should go, Tyler Newman should go. I
would say like mid second round that's when they kind
of go. I think people are still trying to understand
what exactly is the safety and how do we quantify
what he adds. But I would tell you that the
safety prevents the d ball from all over the top
of the defense keeps everything in front like just you know,
just they're able to do it. So to me, it's
(29:47):
about like as we just go back and we reflect
on the class, it's about making sure we go back
to the main point. Hey man, you can't go wrong
taking really really good players. Let's focus on the players
that fit into what we do. Let's not worry about
the fanfare on the outside. Let's make sure that we've
done the necessary work to look at them and say, Okay,
they fit, they fit our culture, they fit how we
(30:08):
want to play, they fit how we want to play
in two three years, if you get enough of those
players on just why the results and all this stuff
can naturally happen and take care of themselves.
Speaker 2 (30:18):
Giants have Dexter Lawrence, the defensive tackle book, broke the Buckie.
They have They just on Jordan Phillips, another big nose
tackle type of guy.
Speaker 1 (30:27):
What three techniques do you like? On day two?
Speaker 2 (30:30):
I know you have Breeden fisk A row row, Chris Jenkins,
Makai Wingle. There's a lot of guys, Michael Hall, which
one of those guys do you think you can get
really good value at in day as a guy that
you want to be able to get upfield and attack gaps.
Speaker 4 (30:44):
Look, man, you can't go wrong with like investing in
the family business. So let's go with Chris Jenkins Junior.
Because his dad was an All Pro player, two time
All Pro player, played for US when I was in
Carolina in the front office, and just his dad is
just a nationale animal. And I'm just thinking any of that, ooh,
it's gonna be like problematic. And so when I see
(31:06):
Chris and his ability to kind of colast to pat
the packet, to be able to get after to be
an up, high energy tempo player. Uh, he didn't get
out of debt all the way from dead, but he
certainly had the bloodlines to get it. And also, when
you got an uncle colin Colin Jenkins who also had
a nice career in the league, you're coming fully equipped
the training camp knowing how to play and how to
(31:26):
get things done right away.
Speaker 2 (31:28):
Yeah, Colin former Giant at the end of his career
as well. Good dude, and absolutely really good bulle of
lines there. How late, Bucky, do you think you can
wait if you want to try to get a running
back that can split some time with Devin Singletary and
Eric Gray and be a part of that room. Can
you wait till round four? Can you stretched around five?
When would you try to attack that position if you
the Giants, given the other needs you have on the roster.
Speaker 4 (31:51):
Know what position we're talking about again? Oh, running back?
So now when we go to running back, like, there'll
be plenty of running backs that are available on day three,
and they're gonna be good running backs that are available.
If I'm not in a hurry to get it done,
I'm gonna wait. I'mna wait to this round to be
able to kind of like get into it and find
my player guys that are of interest that could be available.
(32:13):
Frank Goorg Junior could be there. Not necessarily the fleet
is afoot, but man, just a natural runner Jit or
Blug can scoot through and make plays happen. Bucky Irving
is another one that can kind of do it like
make make plays on a pamet, but also can kind
of run downhill a little bit. I'll give you a
big surprise because I know giants love I mean they
(32:33):
absolutely love Wisconsin guys. Going on our way back to
round day. And how about Braylen Allen, a big running
back from Wisconsin physical for whatever reason, didn't get a
lot of opportunities this last year. But this dude can play.
And I think if you look at the way the
Bills have played snug, they want to they want to
play a physical brand. He's used that he played at Wisconsin,
knows how to get down.
Speaker 2 (32:54):
All right, two more position questions, But before I get
your prediction at six height end, I think is interesting.
I only have I think three players and brock Bowers
Round one two players with with with Day two grades,
who are maybe some of your Day three tight ends
that that kind of jump out to you specifically that
you really like that coup that could provide some value.
Speaker 4 (33:12):
Uh, let's see THEO Johnson and fanned State is a
guy that could find his way down there, super athletic,
free tore it up at the combine. Body beautiful kid.
Meaning when you hear me say body beautiful guy, that man,
if he's the first one off the bus, you feel like,
oh boy, I mean bad we got a bad hand.
So I would say Theo Johnson is one. Dalla Holker
(33:34):
from Colorado State is another one. Really showed up and
performed well at the East West Rine game. Uh. Those
two guys that will keep it close out.
Speaker 1 (33:42):
And then how about interior offensive line.
Speaker 2 (33:44):
The Giants want to continue to show up their guard
spot any day. Two or three guys that that really
jump out at you, that that you like, that could
contribute you thinking guard and maybe eventually develop into a starter.
Speaker 4 (33:56):
Yeah. No, there's some guys and you guys have been
in the northeast, will right on the northeast and we'll
go to Yuka and we'll go get Chris Haynes, who
is not only a high motor player, plays the game
the right way, is built to play the game the
right way. Just being able to kind of have that
small lebrolla mentality at the point of attack is important.
It's important for a run heavy team. So I would
(34:20):
think Hayes has an opportunity to go and be a guy,
and then everybody else is kind of like a hot
podge of like, oh, I played multiple sports, I do
all this or whatever. So but there's some other good
guys that are available to smother ones that are making
Cooper BB will be one of those that falls a lot.
But you get investigating and really be open about how
(34:41):
you want to play them so everyone knows what they're
getting into.
Speaker 2 (34:44):
And then finally, when all said and done, obviously it
depends what happens one through five. What do you think
eventually the Giants do and they pull the trigger at
number six, I.
Speaker 4 (34:51):
Think as much as they try and get up, I
think they end up falling. Sure, I think they end
up getting a Constellation prize and not the quarterback who
wanted to Playmakers and the platemaker that gets.
Speaker 2 (35:04):
Which is, by the way, not a bad consolation prize.
By the way, I think you very happy if that
ends up happening. But good stuff anything you want to
put out there, promote anything that dropped you beside the
stuff I mentioned with the network.
Speaker 4 (35:14):
No, man, it's all good. I really appreciate you having
me on. It's always fun at the time of year.
I look forward to seeing what have the Giants full
laws with the number.
Speaker 2 (35:23):
You guys must be right in the middle of your
high school summer practice A. I would imagine right at this.
Speaker 1 (35:27):
Point you rolling.
Speaker 4 (35:28):
We're rolling a little bit. We just we're just beginning
to kind of kick it off and run around and
do stuff, but it's fun, a lot of fun.
Speaker 2 (35:34):
Bucky Brokes, Nphone Network, thanks for joining us on the
Giants Little Podcast.
Speaker 1 (35:36):
Everybody will see you next time.
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