May 2, 2024 • 45 mins
On this episode of the Giants Huddle podcast, John Schmeelk is joined by Jeff Risdon from USA Today and Lions Wire, to discuss the Giants 2024 draft class and overall draft takeaways.
:00 - Malik Nabers
8:08 - Tyler Nubin and Dru Phillips
17:09 - Day 3 picks
26:27 - Overall draft thoughts
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
It's time to get inside the Giants huts.
Speaker 2 (00:02):
Let's go.
Speaker 1 (00:03):
Let's go Giants. Dont come on my Giants bubble.
Speaker 2 (00:07):
Give me some job.
Speaker 1 (00:07):
Part of the Giants Podcast Network.
Speaker 2 (00:09):
Let's roll.
Speaker 3 (00:10):
Welcome to another edition of the Giants Little Podcast, brought
to you by Citizens, the official bank of the New
York Football Giants.
Speaker 2 (00:15):
I am John Schmelck. Thank you so much for joining
us today.
Speaker 3 (00:18):
By the way, go back if you have some time
and go check out our last episode. We took all
of the player interviews from the weekend with Chon O'Hara,
Manlin Burke, and the newest members of the Giants, and
we put them all together into one podcast so you
could easily check them out and listen to it to
go check that out. Now, we welcome in our guest
Jeff Brisden. He joined us every year during the draft process.
(00:40):
He didn't have a chance to talk to him before
the draft this year, so I was thrilled to have
a chance to talk to him after the draft to
get his full take on what the Giants have done.
We'll touch on the draft as a whole as well
and everything else that happened in the twenty twenty four
NFL draft. Jeff, it's great to see you, dude. First
of all, tell the folks where you can find all
your great work.
Speaker 4 (00:58):
It's good to be with you again. You can find
me at Draft Wire on USA Today. I also run
Lions Wire, and you can hear me on various radio
things all over the place. So just look me up
on Access Jeff Risden, R, I, S, D O, and
and you'll find me.
Speaker 3 (01:12):
Yeah, all that great stuff on draft Wire, which of
course that shows up on USA Today and stuff like
that and all that stuff.
Speaker 4 (01:19):
Too, right, Jeff probably absolutely, yep.
Speaker 3 (01:21):
Yeah, So make sure you guys go check all that out.
Jeff joined us every year, does a fantastic job talking draft.
So Jeff, let's start at the Giants. They had six
picks in this draft, and I think taking a look
at at kind of how the draft went, I think
it fell pretty well in terms of me. Let's start
that first overall pick at six in the first round.
Speaker 4 (01:41):
They end up taking the league Neighbors.
Speaker 3 (01:43):
Your thought on Neighbors as a player, and the Giants
decision to go with him in that spot.
Speaker 4 (01:48):
Yeah, he's a very impressive player. There were a lot
of people that thought he was better than Marvin Harrison Junior.
I was not one of those, but he's close enough that,
like you get why he was so coveted, got speed, athleticism,
ability to run after the catch for days. That's probably
my favorite trade of his. He can turn a simple
swing pass into a long touchdown. He has enough speed
(02:10):
to beat anybody over the top. He's got the confidence
to do it too. One of the things that I
noticed about him when I met him in Indianapolis he's
bigger than I thought he would be.
Speaker 3 (02:20):
He's thicker, right, He's a thick dude. Yeah, he seems
much closer to six to two than he does a
six foot as well, to be honest with you.
Speaker 4 (02:26):
Yeah, absolutely, And I was expecting a guy that was like,
you know, like five eleven maybe six feet and and
you know, a little bit skinnier. There's some mass there,
and I think that's gonna play very well for his
style because one of the worries before I had seen
him in person was I don't know if you know
he can he take the big hits, and he's built
to take that. So I was very impressed with it. Look,
(02:48):
his his tape is outstanding, and he did it against
very good defensive backs across the SEC. There's a whole
lot Like Emiligue neighbors. He's a very talented player who
will make Daniel Jones and eventually whoever else is playing
quarterback for the New York Giants that much better. He's
he's a and and looking at the needs and looking
(03:08):
at the Giants team, my god, he's he's gonna be
your alpha dog right away on offense and that that's
that's what the team needs in my opinion looking at
it from afar.
Speaker 3 (03:19):
Yeah, and look, Jeff, you love the flexibility too, right
and ye, Lsu. He can play outside, he can play inside.
Which spot do you like him best at?
Speaker 4 (03:27):
I like him so as you know, I also cover
the Detroit Lions. I like him in the Alman Ross
Saint Brown role of playing inside, but moving him around.
You can dictate coverage matchups that way. You can. You
can tip off your quarterback to the coverage that way.
Move him around, start him in, start him in a
bunch formation, move him around a little bit there. There's
any number of things you can do. I like him
(03:48):
because he does have that kind of size. I do
think that he can play outside and probably thrive there.
But if you get him on the slot, he's going
to be facing smaller guys and he can bully them
a little bit. And and again I didn't think that
was that It's certainly gonna be a big part of
his game, but you know, seeing him and then watching
him more like oh yeah, Like like if you look
at the Ole Miss game, he was not shy about
(04:09):
him catching a contested catch and getting physical with the
defensive back and getting your release off of it. And
that's something that you know, for a guy with his
speed profile and his ability to make you know, spectacular
catches down and beyond the defense, the fact that he
can do it in tight spaces too, is also a
really good thing. And you can use that anywhere on
your offense. You can line them up inside, outside, wherever.
Speaker 3 (04:30):
Yeah, And look, it's necessary to game plan for a
guy like this, Jeff. And and that's what I've been
trying to stress here. With the loss of Saquon bark
and another player defense has had the game plan for.
You really didn't have that guy on this offense anymore,
especially with down Waller contemplating retirement, right and you know,
he's been injured the last three years hasn't put together
a big time season for a while. Now, you know,
(04:50):
for a guy like Neighbors, yeah, he can win deep.
But to the point you just made, he can catch
that five yard slant, eight yard slant and take it
for a touchdown at any given play.
Speaker 2 (04:59):
Giant fans remember that one Odell Beckham Junior was here.
Speaker 3 (05:02):
And when that's the case and you can win in
different ways, that defensive cornator is gonna have that guy
circled in red sharpie on his game plan every single week,
which really, to your point, will allow your whole offense
to understand what the defense is doing based on how
they're handling Elite.
Speaker 4 (05:19):
Neighbors, absolutely, and you can create some matchups so some
other guys that way, he's gonna make whoever is else's
catching passes from the Giants that much better because look,
if he starts to go deep, that safety has got
to go there. You cannot ignore that there aren't corners
in the even the best corners in the league are
gonna need some help with him over the top because
(05:41):
he's so capable of cutting that back inside on a
post or breaking it off and coming back like they
need that. That's gonna create a lot more room elsewhere.
So hopefully while the ever gets healthy or plays again,
he'd be a perfect compliment for that sort of thing.
And it sets up very nicely for that sort of
of off the ball action, you know, being able. You know,
(06:03):
you brought up Odell Beckham and he was a guy
that like could make the spectacular but also made the routine.
And I don't think you ever get enough credit for
making the routine. Plays that well, that's something that the
Lake Neighbors does too. You know, he will be able to, Yes,
he can make the highlight real catch, but he will
also make five other ones that are just like a
simple pitch and catch and make them look really good.
(06:25):
And I thought Odell did a good job by that,
and Neighbors can do that too.
Speaker 2 (06:29):
Yeah. Absolutely, I'm Jeff one hundred percent with you on that.
Speaker 3 (06:33):
And I think he's a force multiplier, right, I think
he helps he your point, he helps the entire offense.
Speaker 2 (06:37):
There were some giant fans that.
Speaker 3 (06:38):
Wanted him to go quarterback there in round number one,
the top three guys were all gone. According to reports,
they didn't make an effort to try to go up
there and get Drake May based on what effort since
the draft. While the Patriots said they were open to
making the trade, it was one of those things like, well,
listen to Auburns, but we're really not open to making
a trade there.
Speaker 2 (06:55):
So they went and picked the player.
Speaker 3 (06:56):
So you look at the JJ McCarthy, Michael Penix, Bo Nicks,
and at least for me, the way I had my
board stacked up, you know, I had McCarthy I think
around twenty one, all said and done. I had Nixon
Penis in the mid thirties. So to me, it wasn't
much of a debate. What were your overthoughts to McCarthy
being a Michigan gang.
Speaker 4 (07:16):
You know, I like JJ McCarthy and I do think
that he's gonna do well.
Speaker 2 (07:19):
Yeah, me too.
Speaker 4 (07:20):
I'm not sure that the Giants at six were the
best fit for him. I think he needed to go
to an environment where there is a little bit more
around him, and quite frankly, the Giants just don't have
that right now. That's one of the reasons why you're
picking six. You know, there's some holes there. And I
liked the idea of you know, he was I want
(07:41):
to say that he was twenty first on my board.
So it would have been a reach there. I actually
liked bo Nicks quite a bit. That's a very interesting pick.
We'll probably talked about that a little bit later. But
you're not taking him at six and there it sounds
like there wasn't a lot of interest from anybody other
than Minnesota coming up from within eleven and twenty three,
(08:03):
and they're working off of that to the Giants, you know,
because there was any need to. You're kind of in
an awkward position there where if you take a quarterback,
you're really reaching forward in the way that Atlanta did.
And I don't think you want to beat the Atlanta
Falcons coming out of this draft.
Speaker 2 (08:19):
And we'll talk about that too a little bit later.
Speaker 3 (08:21):
Well, round number two, Jeff Tyler Nuban to the Giants,
had picked number forty seven. He had a second round
grade for me, along with two other safeties. I had
a couple other guys that I thought I liked their
ability to play man to man a little bit better
than him, Jabon Bullard and Jayden Hicks, so I had
him in a little bit higher. But the Giants are
going to play a defensive zone heavy scheme here, and
(08:42):
I think for a guy that you want to looking
at the quarterback, breaking on the ball and anticipating what
the quarterback's going to do.
Speaker 2 (08:48):
I think it's easy to argue that Nuban was the
best safety in this draft class.
Speaker 4 (08:52):
Absolutely and specifically for his own and like you said,
he needs to see the action. He's not a guy
who's going to cover in man. That's not his strength.
That's not what he does. He's a very smart football player.
He's a very reactive football player. He's not necessarily a
dynamic athlete, and I think that's one of the reasons
that kept him out of the first round. But you
can mitigate some of that by playing him in his
zone where he's got, you know, defined responsibilities where he
(09:13):
doesn't have to try to keep up, you know, with
with brock Bauers coming out of the slot, you know,
you don't you don't have to deal with him, you know,
having to cover Terry McLaurin deep on a on a
one isolation play. And I like that for him. A
very good player, underappreciated player. I think because he played
at Minnesota. I think he he played at a Michigan
or a Washington or something like that, a more high
profile football program. I do think he would have been
(09:35):
in regard more because there's that's a really good football player.
Not again, not necessarily the best athlete, but this is
a guy who's not going to ever be in the
wrong spot at the wrong time because he misread a play.
And I think that that's something you know, that that's
solidification of your back end. He's going to help your corners,
(09:55):
He's going to help your linebackers. He's going to be
a guy that will point things out pre snap, like, hey,
you know what, watch watch the running back leaking out
on this, or you know, he's gonna he's gonna read
the Texas route instead of biting hard on the on
the out route. That type of thing. Uh, you can.
You can do a lot with that player, and I
really like it. He does. He does have a tendency
to to, you know, overshoot just a little bit on
(10:17):
run defense. But again, you're dealing with a second round
pick here. This guy's gonna play a very long time
in the league and be a good not great start.
It's one of those guys I see him being like
a guy who has like one or two Pro Bowl
years as a hiccup year, but it's a guy that
you're never gonna be looking to replace. You're like, man,
we're good there, and that's that's kind of what you want.
Speaker 3 (10:37):
Yeah, And he's a guy that had so much experience
over forty starts in Minnesota. Jeff, he's got you can
plug it in your rookie year. And I think you
feel pretty good about at playing him right away too.
Speaker 4 (10:45):
Oh. Absolutely, he can start right away and he will
be an asset right away. And he does have good
ball skills. He's good with the ball in the air.
It's just one of the like I I really like
to fit there because he's he's gonna be a guy
that's gonna you know, you talk about Malik Neighbors being
a force multiplayer, Nuban isn't going to be that to
(11:05):
that extent. But it's a position again where he's just
so solid that other people are gonna have to worry about, like, oh,
like what's going on behind me over here? You know,
they're not gonna have to look over their shoulder because
they know he's going to be where he needs to be.
And that helps him play a little bit freer and
maybe a little bit more aggressively. Maybe it allows your
linebacker to come up and you know, try to poach
(11:26):
your route. Maybe it allows your corner to get a
little bit more aggressive and you know, trying to jam
a little bit more or you know, steer things the
right way. There's a whole lot that you can do
with a very solid all around football player. And that's
what you got in Tyler Nuban.
Speaker 3 (11:40):
Yeah, And I think the other thing I like too here, Jeff,
is if you look back historically, top tier athletes do
not necessarily dominate the safety position the way they do
other positions. Right, It's not like, if you want a
really good edge play, you better have a great athlete, right.
If you want a really good corner, you bet have
a guy that runs really fast. We've seen in the
past safeties that don't test well they come in and
(12:02):
they're still phenomenal players. Because I think, to me, it's
a position that is a lot more what's going on
in your head than it does of what's you know,
how fast your forty dashtime is absolutely.
Speaker 4 (12:14):
Look at Kyle Hamilton who kind of came out Adore
Dame and everybody was like, wow, he's really not a
good athlete. And after about the first month of his
rookie season, you could make an argument that he's the
best safety in the game now after two seasons. Newban
doesn't have that kind of ceiling, but he can be
a poor man's It's Kyle Hamilton. I think I think
Giants fans should be very happy with that.
Speaker 5 (12:35):
You love turf, You're good at it, so you start
a turf fiz business grows, your savings grow, become the
most celebrated name in turf. Are you ready for all
that life rings?
Speaker 4 (12:50):
Yeah?
Speaker 2 (12:50):
Absolutely?
Speaker 3 (12:51):
All right, let's go to the third round here, Jeff,
pick number seventy. But first, a reminder that the Johnsontle
Podcast is brought to you by Citizens, the official bank
of the New York Giants from game data every day.
Citizens didn't ay ready for fans for Giants fans with insides,
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All right, let's jump to Andrew Phillips. You here, pick
number seventy. Jeff, and I said this on a lot
of our Giants Little podcast leading up to the draft.
(13:13):
I had trouble sorting through Day two cornerbacks. I felt
like they were all so close to each other. Nobody
tested particularly great. The guys that had good tape didn't
test well. Some guys that tested really well didn't have
really good tape. There were some big guys, some small guys,
some slot onlies. I had trouble sorting through the mix.
I actually ended up with Andrew Phillips, I think, with
(13:33):
one of my highest third round grades on my board.
So the giants kind of picked them, I think where
he wound up for me. What were your thoughts on
the player and kind of that just kind of middle
group of corners in this year's draft.
Speaker 4 (13:44):
Yeah, you're absolutely right, and it was sort of dealer's choice,
Like it's what are you looking for in your cornerback?
Do you need a press guy? Do you need a
speed guy? Do you need a ball hawk? Do you
need do you want a guy who's gonna come up
and set an edge and run defense, but probably can't
run more than fifteen yards down the field. I like
feel because he's an aggressive ball hawk, he goes after
the ball, he's quick, he's also got long speed. I
(14:07):
don't have his forty time in front of I know
he jumped out. I think it was forty one inches so.
Speaker 2 (14:11):
And I think it's forty was like four four eight,
four four nine, something like that.
Speaker 4 (14:14):
Yeah, and he's fast enough, Like if you watch Kentucky tape,
he's fast enough. And he's an interesting one. I had
some trouble the fact that he was inconsistent to me.
You know, you watch you watch a couple of games
and he's very good, and you watch the Louisville games,
like where is he? And I think that's that's one
(14:36):
of the reasons why he's available in the third round
for you. He had some games that were very impressive,
but he had some that were kind of off. This
is where he trust in your coaching staff, Like, I
know what this guy can do. He can cover. He's aggressive,
he's gonna get in their face. He's gonna talk to them.
He's gonna make receivers uncomfortable with his demeanor. Kind of
feisty guy. We'll go get the ball. He's gonna challenge.
(14:58):
Don't throw a contested catch in his way. He's he's
a little shorter than you want for those, but like
if it's if it's within his reach, he's gonna make
a play on the ball.
Speaker 3 (15:05):
Uh.
Speaker 4 (15:06):
And that's that's a mindset that you want. He pairs
nicely with with Banks, I think is a guy that can,
you know, go get the ball, can can match up,
has confidence, has effusive confidence, I would say, and uh,
you know, not not to to snipe from Afar, but
the New York media requires some things out of their players.
I think he fits that very well. He's he will
(15:27):
not succumb to the pressure of the New York media,
good or bad, and that it does swing both ways.
I think he's the guy that's gonna embrace being on
the big stage and that's kind of what you want
on a cornerback. That that's gonna play a lot for
you early.
Speaker 2 (15:41):
No, I agree, and a couple of things to build
on it. And I'm with you, Jeff.
Speaker 3 (15:45):
I think he does go after the ball, and he
has ball production in terms of knocking pass his way.
Speaker 2 (15:50):
But he never had a career interception.
Speaker 3 (15:51):
But I feel like with this play style, you know,
I feel like those are gonna come, you know what
I mean?
Speaker 4 (15:57):
Yeah, oh yeah. He gets his hands on a lot
and a lot of by the way or in contested
catches where he's fighting with the receiver, and he will
make the past breakup and make sure that he makes
the pass breakup. But he doesn't necessarily catch the ball
all that well. And again you go back to the
old say, you know, that's why he plays defense instead
of wide receiver. He's very, very smart in terms of
(16:17):
picking up on the routes, but he will occasionally overreact
to a fake. He will bite on double moves. Those
are things that you know you have to get ironed out.
But again that's why you're looking at a third round pick.
But you know that you're right. Man. That jumbled Day
two and early Day three cornerback class. There were a
lot of guys that like, I think he could probably
be pretty good somewhere, but I don't know if he's
(16:39):
going to be good everywhere. And Andrew Phillips is one
of those guys. So hopefully it pans out for the
Giants on that because he doesn't have to come in
to be the number one. I like that, and I
think that that's that's that's something that he's got in.
Speaker 2 (16:52):
His favorite there and the Giants have said they going
to start him in the slot.
Speaker 3 (16:54):
And I think with his physicality and his spicy in
his willingness to stop the run. He had some mistackles issues,
but he he was he was willing tackler, and he
was physical, and I think that's what you want out
of a slot guy.
Speaker 4 (17:04):
Yeah, you want to he does he absolutely, he will hit.
He doesn't rap, and he's got to learn to think
those the hips when he when he does hit and rap.
If so, But again that's that can be taught. And
I'm not, you know, not to disparage the Kentucky football program,
but there was some lack of attention to detail a
lot that showed with that Wildcat see because they kind
(17:25):
of had more talent than they might have showed in
the record.
Speaker 3 (17:28):
Yeah, and frankly, I still remember going back watching We'll
Love Us last year and I think he saw some
of that in attention to detail even the year prior.
Speaker 2 (17:35):
Uh round four for.
Speaker 3 (17:36):
The Giants Jeff thel Johnson, Uh drops all the way
to the fourth round.
Speaker 2 (17:40):
Uh, That's about where I had him.
Speaker 3 (17:42):
But I know a lot of people had a late
second a late second round or even round three grade
on depending on who you talk to. And unlike safety,
where we talked about how testing is not a big
predictor of success, tight ends the opposite. You want to
draft a guy with traits and then on the guy
would trace the develop and Theo Johnson has space.
Speaker 4 (18:01):
He absolutely does, and he didn't get to show it
very much at Penn State for a variety of reasons.
I went to the Senior Bowl and I watched him
down there, and he was so far and away the
best tight end at the Senior Bowl. He got opened
against linebackers, he got opened against safeties. There were a
couple of times where they tried to fig your corner
against him. That the crispness to his rouse, with his
(18:22):
speed at his size is really impressive. He's the guy
that he's one of those guys, you know, the proverbial.
He's going to be better as a pro than he
was in college simply because the college didn't really know
what they had in him. I will use the analogy
of George Kittle at Iowa. I am not saying in
any way that Theo Johnson is going to be George Kittle,
(18:42):
but that sort of like blossoming at the next level
where if you did if you just looked at the stats,
you're like, oh, okay, and then you watch the player like,
oh all right, I get that again. He's not George Kittle,
but that sort of like jump in production and ability
you're going to see more of him, hopefully in New
(19:03):
York than what he did at I or at Penn
State rather and uh, you know that's there's a lot
to like about him. Don't ask him to block out
in space. That's not what he's going to do. All
that well, he's not. He's not gonna be an inline
tight end because he's you know, gonna stand up your
your defensive end and stay there. He can chip and release,
he can motion, he can play this sort of an
(19:23):
h back role if you really wanted to. But he's
at as best as a as a split out tight
end receiving weapon, and he can get down the field.
He can chew up yards really quick with that stride.
Good football player.
Speaker 3 (19:34):
Yeah, the good news he does have the size if
he's if he's willing to do it to develop into
a y I think he has the body type to
do it if if he's able to get in there
and improve as a blocker, And I think that's a
big part of it. I think watching him Jeff on tape,
I didn't quite see the highest that level of athleticism
that I think we saw from the testing for me.
Speaker 2 (19:54):
I don't you could tell he was a build up
speed guy.
Speaker 3 (19:58):
I didn't feel like he was a sudden as a
guy like Kittle, but you certainly see between the size,
the weight, the wingspan, the testing speed.
Speaker 2 (20:07):
I mean, all the numbers from the jumps.
Speaker 3 (20:09):
To the cones, to the to the agility to the speed,
we're all good and you hope into a different system.
You know, you could just see him running those seam
routes in the NFL all day long with that size.
Speaker 4 (20:22):
And again he's he's going to be able to attack
in a zone between the linebacker and the safety role
red zone. You just got yourself a fantastic red zone
target who can go get the ball. And he does
go get the ball in there. He's not a guy
that waits for it. He's he will stretch out and
make the catch away from his frame. That was one
of the things that he really did very well with
the Senior Bowl, and I think that that does translate
(20:43):
very well to the NFL. Yeah, he's not a dynamic
like off the line guy. He's not gonna he's not
going to break ankles at the line. He's not going
to be that kind of guy. But you know, I
thought he was worthy of going in the third round,
just based on potential an upside to get him in
the fourth that's a good pick. It's a good pick.
He definitely helps the Giants out this year and he
(21:05):
will be a good friend for again for Daniel Jones
and if Jane Jones eventually moves on, whoever succeeds him
at quarterback, you always want to have that big, reliable target.
That's what he can be.
Speaker 3 (21:17):
And then in the fifth round, Jeff, they end up
going with Tyrone Tracy, who's a really interesting player. You know,
he hasn't played running back a ton but and you
can tell when you watch him he hasn't played running
back and.
Speaker 2 (21:29):
He's kind of all over the place.
Speaker 3 (21:30):
But he's a fun player to watch, and he's got
the athletic upside that you like at the position he does.
Speaker 4 (21:36):
And you're you're picking this one strictly on upside, because
if you're looking at his tape, it's like, okay, all right,
like can you do you have any vision at all?
You know, that sort of thing. But he's he's a
great athlete. He's a hard worker. He's shown that he
can do a lot of different things for a team.
He could be a return man, as a guy that
comes in and with the kickoff change. That's that's one
(21:58):
of the things that a few teams mentioned and across
the league that they were looking actively for a different
type of return man. You want a guy who's not
just fast, but has a little bit of wiggle to
him and has a little bit of you know, balance
through contact, and that's something that he does show and
did show him at Produce. So there's there's you know, again,
(22:20):
you're betting on traits here, you're betting on upside. You're
betting on your coaching staff being able to develop into
something more than he's been. And he would I'll say this,
I don't think he would have been there at their
next pick. So if they were looking for a guy
like that, they went and got him when they needed.
Speaker 2 (22:35):
To, I'm with you.
Speaker 3 (22:37):
And then around six, Darius Mussau at a UCLA jack
and I had not watched him before the draft.
Speaker 2 (22:43):
I went back and watched him after the Giants picked him.
Speaker 3 (22:45):
Fun player, you know, undersized, you know, I think he
waited into two twenty five at the combine.
Speaker 2 (22:50):
His testing speed wasn't good.
Speaker 3 (22:51):
But he's the guy that when I watched him on
tape maybe the top speed's not great. He looks sudden
to me like he did have quickness side the side
he was able to blitz.
Speaker 2 (22:59):
I think he's twitchy. I think he right away.
Speaker 3 (23:02):
You put him on special teams and you try to
develop him on defense.
Speaker 4 (23:06):
Yeah, and he's another guy. He's got to learn to rap.
When he hits, he will come up and smack you
in the mouth. But if you're big or get a
stiff arm out, he's kind of gonna be laying there
watching you run past him. So that a guy that
I think again, special teams, I think you hit it
on the head there. I think that's where he's gonna
make his difference as a nickel backer who comes in
a dime package backer. He has some coverage ability. I'd
(23:30):
like to see that improve a little bit.
Speaker 2 (23:32):
Jeef. That's the thing. I'm sorry for interrupting you.
Speaker 3 (23:34):
It drives me nuts watch in college be over a
two hundred and twenty five linebacker that can move, yet
they don't ask him to cover like he's a blitzer
for them. I went, I tried to find coverage snaps.
Speaker 4 (23:47):
I couldn't.
Speaker 3 (23:49):
Really, is it the college keeps saying this isn't just
you know him, college keeps sending these two hundred and
twenty five pounds linebackers of the pros that he didn't
ask to cover in college.
Speaker 2 (23:59):
What the hell is supposed to do with these guys?
It's hard.
Speaker 4 (24:02):
I don't know. We have one in Detroit and Steel
Chambers as an undrafted free agent. Yeah, why why aren't
you doing what your physical talents should allow you to do?
And that's a college football to pro football transition issue,
and it comes up a lot that comes up with
offensive linemen too, Like you've got an incredibly athletic offensive
lineman in college and you ask him to just stand
(24:24):
there and absorb, Like, let him go get somebody. I
don't think the college is. That's one of the reasons
when you're looking at projections of how they translate from
the college to the pros, it can be very difficult.
Sometimes the entire UCLA defense is a difficult projection because
I don't think that they played.
Speaker 6 (24:41):
A very to say that it's I actually like Jim
Kelly too, but they don't play a style that's very
conducive for a lot of their players to translate to
the next or to see how they translate to the
next level because they're just sort of okay, all right,
you know.
Speaker 4 (24:55):
I don't get it.
Speaker 2 (24:58):
Like you watch his skill set and his agility. He
looks like a guy that should be able to cover you.
Speaker 3 (25:04):
We just haven't seen him really do it, which is
why it's frustrating for me at least.
Speaker 4 (25:08):
Yeah, and and upside is there. He's not super fast.
He's not long speed fast two or three steps though
he's pretty good. He's pretty sudden on that he will
and again he will come up and hit you. He
does have some pop behind his pasts. He does sink
his weight pretty well. He's just got to learn to
rap and be a little bit more. One thing that
I did notice he will overrun the point of attack
(25:30):
and run defense. I think that's gonna be something that
he's got to get either coached out of him or
just you know, put him in, put him where he
doesn't have to cover both ways, where he can just
go to one spot and sit there. If you remember
Jared Davis, Jared Davis had that same sort of problem.
I see him as sort of a poorer man's Jared Davis,
(25:50):
which you know probably doesn't go over all that well.
But there's a fit for that, and hopefully he'll he'll
he'll improve on the things he needed to improve on
a niche where there he look. Late round picks, you
gotta find one thing that you offer the team that
nobody else does on your roster. If he finds that,
he'll stick and play for a little while.
Speaker 3 (26:10):
I remember Jared Davis I think was a first round pick, right, Jeff,
if I recall.
Speaker 4 (26:14):
Correctly, yes, he was in Detroit. It did not go well.
Speaker 3 (26:17):
So I don't think comparing a sixth rider to a
first round there will will necessarily get Giant fans two upset.
Speaker 2 (26:21):
I think that's okay.
Speaker 3 (26:23):
Just as a reminder, folks that the Giants Little Podcast
is brought to you by Citizens, Giant Fans level winner.
It's why they love Citizens named the twenty twenty two
best bank in the US by the Banker as the
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Citizens is made ready for fans in Big Blue. Learn
more at citizensbank dot com. All right, Jeff, let's talk
about the draft in general before we get the classes.
Just some of your individual picks or players that you
(26:45):
thought would the really good spots or you thought were
really good value throughout the draft.
Speaker 4 (26:49):
Yeah, and I'll actually start with a second round pick,
Johnny Newton to Washington. To me, he was the best
defensive player in this draft. H and the fact that
he fell to the second round. I watched him and
it was like I was watching Gerald McCoy tape back
in his day of number three overall pick. He's so disruptive.
(27:09):
He is an attack dog. Really really good fit. I
really like that one. You know.
Speaker 3 (27:15):
The funny thing is like the one position that Washington
actually had players at, but it was such good value
they had to pick the player because he was sitting
there like a sore thumb.
Speaker 4 (27:24):
Yeah. And it's from what I've gathered from talking to
to people who cover some other teams, it was like
he was always like playing b at their spot from
like fifteen through thirty. But they got their playing a
The way that played out very chalky, you know, like, Okay,
all these guys sort of went Other than a couple
which we'll get to, it was very predictable. And I
(27:46):
you know, I like Joe All as an example, Joe
All going to a Jim Harbaugh coach team. Come on, now,
what a fit? Like? I know, it's a number five
overall pick, and you're gonna like these things. But that's
a really good fit for the Chargers. And yes they
do already have Ray Shawn Slater, but you're gonna give
Justin Herbert a bookend tackles like that for a long time.
(28:08):
That allows you don't have to worry about your offensive line.
Now you're good, Like I like that sort of mindset
with with that. Neighbors to the Giants is one of
my more favorite picks. I really liked Romo Dunzie going
with Kleb Williams to the Bears, Like I was not
the biggest Kleb Williams guy, Jaden Daniels with my number
one quarterback. But if you're gonna make Caleb Williams work,
(28:31):
you better have guys like Romo Dunzee who can make
ridiculous catches. I'll tell you a quick story. I went
to the Washington game at Michigan State this year just
watching a Dunzee warm up on the sidelines, like intentionally
having their backup quarterback throw him passes that are just like,
go catch that at your shoetops, go catch at over
the linebacker who's not even looking like and he made
(28:53):
it all look easy and great, and he's got he's
got a fun personality. So I really like that pick.
Speaker 2 (28:57):
Did you have a Doomsay or Neighbors high on your board?
Just at a curiosity, I had a Dunes.
Speaker 4 (29:01):
Say they were one was a in migrating scale. I
used the graty scale that our Lands scouting does. That's
kind of how I was brought up. They were one
point point zero one apart. So there it's like, you know,
dealer's choice that they're both got fantastic, fantastic prospects not
to not to you know, poor Salt on the nfcast.
I really like Quinnon Mitchell to the Eagles. That's the guy.
(29:26):
He compares very well to Darius Slay. He's Darius Slay
two point oh. He's got Darius Lay one point oh
for at least a year to teach him how to
be that good of an NFL player. I really liked
that pick.
Speaker 3 (29:37):
A good fit, honestly, Jeff, I saw Star for Dugney again.
But I thought you mentioned Washington Philly are ready. I
thought I thought all four NFC East teams honestly had
really good drafts fitting needs and value with a lot
of their picks, which which I wish I wasn't saying that,
but I think if feeling on Cooper Degene in round two,
which is an unbelievable ad. Washington had such volume and
(29:59):
then Dallas got the offensive lineman they need. I know,
you'll probably be more Shawn nelan guy being from your
midwestern area, right.
Speaker 4 (30:05):
Well, yeah, he's he's from a local high school here,
got one high high school and gran Rapids, Michigan, which
is not too far from where I live. Good player,
probably not a high end player, but a good fit.
And Cooper bb Man. I loved Cooper.
Speaker 2 (30:18):
I had a second round right off.
Speaker 4 (30:20):
Him, so I did too. I would have been okay
if the team took him in the first. Quite honestly,
his his He will come in at a Pro Bowl
caliber level. And it reminds me so much of when
they got Martin down there, like everybody overthought him, and
they overthought Cooper bb too.
Speaker 5 (30:38):
So you're ready for a change. Pay day comes early
with citizens, So go to that retreat. Knew you move
to the country. Now you're raising goats and launching a
lifestyle brand. Are you ready for all that life brings?
Speaker 3 (30:54):
And like a couple of years ago. I was not
a big fan of the Tyler smith pick. I thought
he was raw. I thought he was heap, his hands
roll over the place. And you could say the same
stuff about Tyler Goyton in some ways right.
Speaker 2 (31:05):
Where he his hands did a lot of work.
Speaker 3 (31:07):
But the Cowboys at this point, I think you have
to trust him to be able to develop offensive line.
And because they've done such a good job of it
over the last.
Speaker 4 (31:14):
They have shown that. I was with you. Goton wasn't
even in my top sixty players.
Speaker 2 (31:17):
Oh wow, Wow, he was that low for you.
Speaker 4 (31:19):
Huh. I just I he didn't have the focus with
his hands, with his feet, he's all over the place
now again when he did put it together at times, Okay,
all right, I like it. It's good, but I'm worried about him.
But he did go to a place like to your point,
(31:39):
they have a good offensive line coach and they have
a good they have a good sense for who can
work with their offensive line, and I think that's that's
an asset that they've got. The Unfortunately, Giants have to
go up.
Speaker 3 (31:49):
Against any other players or classes that that really stood
out to you.
Speaker 4 (31:54):
You know, I'm gonna give I'm gonna give my Detroit
Lions a little bit of love. Terry and Arnold trading
up for him was the number one defense player on
their board. I loved him. He was a top fifteen
prospect for me. The biggest weakness on their team was
outside cornerback. They went and addressed it. So I'm very
happy with that. He's he's he's got flair and that's
something that that secondary needed. That's a good one.
Speaker 2 (32:17):
You know the funny things, Jeff.
Speaker 3 (32:18):
Last year, everyone, oh, you know Jamior Gibbs and Campbell
they worked out. There were such great picks, and I
was sitting here saying, yeah, they were good picks, but
they could have drafted a corner and they really needed
one of those. So we'll see if it was good
long term. But now I feel like getting Arnold this year,
and then they got Ricky Straw later on. Right, If
I'm not mistaken, second round picked up two corners this year.
(32:39):
It makes last year's pick league even better because you
made up for what you didn't pick with those picks
in last year's first and second round.
Speaker 2 (32:46):
So I'm with you.
Speaker 3 (32:47):
I thought the lines did a really nice job picking
up both those guys.
Speaker 4 (32:51):
Hopefully it translates to the field.
Speaker 2 (32:52):
Fingers crushed, except when they play the Giants go ahead.
Speaker 4 (32:57):
Well yeah, obviously for you all, but yeah, that's I'm
trying to think. Who. Also, I thought Kansas City did
a pretty good job of maximizing their draft value for
where they were at. Again, I'm not necessarily crazy about
all of their picks, but I think they got guys
where they should have gone they didn't reach, And they've
had like taken Fau last year and he barely played
(33:18):
as a rookie. You know, they've had some Regent Clyde
Edwards Hilaire is like, what are you doing like that?
That's a that's a third round guy you're taking in
the first round. I thought they did a very good
job of finding guys who fit what they want when
they needed to get it.
Speaker 3 (33:31):
So I thought Sumataeo was a very good value at
the end of round too. I know he had some
you know, maybe personality stuff that some teams were a
little wary of, but much like Geyt and you know
him and Guiding, I didn't have that far away from
each other on my board, to be I thought they
were similar to it a Morgan kind of in that neighborhood.
Speaker 2 (33:47):
With them too.
Speaker 3 (33:48):
I had them more like beginning into the first round,
beginning of the second. But again, just a really big
guy with just so much physical ability that you just
have to hone in on a little bit.
Speaker 4 (33:58):
Yeah, and Sue Am, I thought you is a guy
who he could be your starting red card for a
long time if he ever learns how to get his
One of the things that you noticed in watching BYUSA,
but it was very true the Senior Bowl too. He's
so tall in his stance on the snap, even in
a two point stance. It's like, wow, man, like, just
sink that down because he's he's a big dude, but
(34:19):
he's not like freakishly tall, freakishly big like that, so
they can work on that. That's good. Glad you brought
up Jordan Morgan. That's another one Packers got a They
got a really good player there. I think a lot
of folks put it out of mind that he missed
twenty twenty two. He came back, he was he has
He had the best tape against Latu Latu, who's a
(34:40):
very good football player. And I like that pick too,
But Jordan Morgan is gonna be really good in Green Bay,
which you know, unfortunately we're fluffing up all these NFC
teams by and large, they had they had come drafts.
Speaker 2 (34:51):
Man, how about like day three?
Speaker 3 (34:53):
How about like day three guys that you kind of
fell in love with and you just think are gonna
be good players that are gonna make it.
Speaker 4 (35:00):
Yeah, and I will go back to my Lions real
quick on that. Christian Mahogany out of Boston College was
the guy that I would have been happy if they
took him in the second absolute snow plow of a
run blocker, wasn't gonna fit a zone scheme, but for
a gap power scheme like the Lions run, He's going
to be fantastic for that. So that's the guy that
I really liked.
Speaker 3 (35:19):
The lines that one of the players really late that
they ended up trading back in for not not the
game from British Columbia there was, so they give to
someone to Mahogany very closely.
Speaker 4 (35:30):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (35:31):
Yeah the running back right, well or is he safety?
You will have to find out.
Speaker 4 (35:34):
Right, Yeah, he will be a running back. He will
play special teams a lot, So that'll that'll be an
interesting one. I'm trying to think about the day three
guys that I liked. I can't excuse me because I
do prep on this too. I liked what the Texans
did on Day three better than I will what they
did on day one. Day two. They didn't have a
Day one pick, but they got some players that I
(35:56):
think are going to be helpful there. And you know,
that's a team they're poised to go up with c. J.
Stroud and getting a supporting cast around him. And I
thought they did a pretty good job this on Day
three of the draft. Honestly, you know, oh.
Speaker 1 (36:13):
You know what I was thinking of.
Speaker 3 (36:15):
I thought Makai Wingo and the Sand was great value
for Detroit. That's why I was trying to remember. I
had him as like an early third round pick. I
thought he was a really good player.
Speaker 4 (36:24):
Yeah, his problem is that he's you know what, six
one and a half in two hundred and eighty pounds.
That's a very hard size. But if you've got a
plan for a guy like that, you can make that work.
Hopefully Detroit comes up with a plan for.
Speaker 3 (36:35):
That absolutely, all right, What were some of the moves
or picks or classes that kind of had you scratch
on your head a little bit?
Speaker 4 (36:43):
Well, you gotta start with the Atlanta Falcons. I mean,
I'm sorry, I can't help, but lath that they took.
They took Michael Panics junior at number eight, just after
they gave Kirk Cousins all that money. They can not
get out of Kirk Cousins deal for at least two
more years, and they didn't tell Kirk Cousins that it
(37:05):
was gonna happen, Like, how do you screw up that badly?
I like, I generally like Terry Fonto. I think he's
done a pretty good job of assembling a core talent there.
But my goodness, that's like that's the sea. Their division
is there for the taking. Like the the NFC South
(37:26):
is pretty wide open. I don't think Carolina is close yet.
But New Orleans, Tampa Bay Okay, yeah, Tampa Bay is
pretty good football team, but they're not that team. If
you get you get Romo Dunzie there, you get you
get Brock Powers there, play Brock Powers with Kyle Piss.
That'd be a lot of fun.
Speaker 2 (37:43):
Yeah, you get Byron Murphy one of the pass rushers, Like.
Speaker 4 (37:46):
Yeah, exactly, get a lot to get get Dallas Turner.
Like everybody thought they were going to do get Quinnon, Mitchell,
get Terry and Arnold like, there were so many other
ways that they could have helped their football team challenge
for a division title and a home playoff game or
two in twenty twenty four, twenty twenty five, and they
threw that all away for a an I was, I
(38:09):
have to do it. I was not a Michael Penni's guy.
The injury scare the tar out of me. Four separate
season ending injuries at Indiana. I know he avoided them
at Washington, but that's one of the reasons why he's older.
That's one of the reasons why he adopted adapted his game.
And everybody at the Common was like, oh wow, he
can run. Yeah, he ran a whole lot Indiana and
look what it did for him. It kind of thurned
(38:31):
your guild. You know, two separate shoulder separations that required
a surgery. Two separate is the l's that require Like,
I'm not a fan of that pick at all.
Speaker 2 (38:40):
And you know, you have to think about it.
Speaker 3 (38:42):
And this is the point that Daniel Jeremiah made on
the Move the Sticks podcast, which was a good one.
You know, if you really love Panix and you want
to pick him an eight. Fine, you should have known
that when you got the free agency, right, Like, at
that point, your hay should have been pretty much in
the barn. Your combine is done, You've watched all the tape,
the senior balls in the bag. If you really love
(39:04):
Penis that much, you feel really good he's going to
be there at eight, that no one's gonna pick him
ahead of you, right, Why would you then spend all
that money on Cousins. That's why it almost feels like
this is one of those like maybe it was an
ownership pick or something. It just it seems like a
really weird decision for the front office if they knew
they loved Penis that early in the process to go
(39:24):
out there to to to to pay Cousins and then
you know, draft him eight.
Speaker 2 (39:30):
I don't know.
Speaker 3 (39:30):
To me, I feel like something in the decision making
process is missing, and I've been trying to figure it out,
and I don't have a real good answer, to be
honest with you, I don't either.
Speaker 4 (39:41):
That's one that you saw the shot of their draft
room and Arthur Blank coming up, and you know, like, hey,
what what happened here? I think I think that was
a very appropriate action for him. Yeah, that's I just
don't get that one man some other classes. So in general,
I liked what the Pittsburgh Steelers did, like Trey Fatana
(40:03):
home run, the fact that they took all those offensive
linemen that that's a little bit of overkill. There might
might be an overreaction to not having it because they
took a couple last year and those guys are bad. Like,
if they all can play together, that's great, but there's
a couple of guys who are very redundant with one another,
and I'm not sure that that's they had other needs.
(40:25):
I know. I know Steelers fans will tell you that
they didn't really have any needs at all. That the
best team in football, and you know that shouldn't be
ever questioned. But I say that I'm a Clevelander, so
I have a little bit of an attitude about that.
They got good football players. I just I struggle to
see how they all fit into their grand scheme of things.
(40:46):
So you know, I wouldn't hate it if I was
a Steelers fan, but I would I would stand a
question like is there a plan on how all these
guys are gonna work?
Speaker 3 (40:55):
And I will say they definitely drafted to their brand man.
They drafted a bunch of big, bruising, physical guys, even
Roman Wilson, Right, he's a guy that blocked the line
of Michigan playing for Jim Harbaugh. So they certainly drafted
to the personality that I think Mike Tomlin wants to
have for his team, and that's.
Speaker 4 (41:11):
That's what they do. Another one that I wasn't I
thought Seattle hit a home run with their first round pick,
and the rest of their draft was like, oh, now,
they didn't pick a lot, but I don't know about
this guys, Like, there was every spot there was like
four or five other guys that were available that I
would have taken over the guys that they took. And
that's that's sort of a stilted way to look at it,
(41:33):
and you know, it's ejecting my opinion on their draft,
and that's not fair to their draft because I'm not
a Seattle Seahawks officionado. I don't know everything about that team,
but I just felt like they could have done better
than what they did, so you know, and uh, in general,
I'm also not a fan of drafting punters or kickers,
and they did go I will say joshuaccarty will record
(41:58):
the kicker from Arkansas who went. They're phenomenal prospects as kickers,
but I just I really don't like drafting them.
Speaker 3 (42:06):
Yeah, and Tory Taylor went, you know, from Iowa, who
certainly pumped it a lot there.
Speaker 2 (42:12):
I mean that, that's for sure.
Speaker 4 (42:13):
He had a lot of un He was their offensive MVP.
They didn't name him that, but he should have. Bet
he was really really good at it. Great again, great punter.
Just the difference between having the best punter in the
league and the fifteenth best punter in the league is
kind of negligible.
Speaker 2 (42:31):
All right, bowys, say goodbye.
Speaker 3 (42:34):
Give me just any final thoughts you have on the
on either the Giants or the draft class, the NFC.
Speaker 2 (42:38):
Anywhere you want to take this to the floor is yours.
Speaker 4 (42:41):
Yeah, you know, I think I really like the Washington
Commanders draft class. I don't do draft grades. They would
have gotten the highest draft rate if I had one.
And we talked a lot about Philadelphia and Dallas. The
Giants are in a spot where they're looking up and
the teams that are above them got better. So I
would say my message to Giants fans would be be patient.
(43:04):
With your guys because you've got some good football players,
you have potential coming and like your window is different
than theirs, and judge your window on what your window is.
And I think that that's a good spot to start.
But the overall fun draft, there's twenty twenty five stuff
coming out already. I'm not ready for that yet. I
(43:27):
will start watching couple days, but until then, so I'll
say is you guys are my last media appearance of
the twenty twenty four NFL Draft, and I'm I'm very
happy to be on with you, but I'm also happy
that this is over. It's yeah, a long slog.
Speaker 2 (43:43):
Me too.
Speaker 3 (43:43):
We have our final episode of our draft season podcast
next week. Tony Tony Pollie and I do that and
we're recording on Friday, and that is our look ahead
the twenty twenty five. So the last two days, Jeff,
I actually have been watching guys for the twenty twenty
five draft.
Speaker 4 (43:58):
Oh God, bless you.
Speaker 3 (44:00):
And then I'm gonna put it aside for like a
month and a half and be like, all right, I'm
gonna go watch them OTAs and watch them NFL football
for once, and I don't have to worry about watching
college guys. But look, when it comes to the draft,
as you well know, the process never ends. Is there's
always one more guy to watch, which is why it
kind of makes it fun in a lot of ways,
you know what I mean.
Speaker 4 (44:18):
I am secretly looking forward to watching a lot of players.
So when I watch college football, I tend to focus
on the players that are gonna be draft eligible. So, like,
I'm aware of who a lot of these guys are
that are that are being mocked in the two early mocks,
but I haven't really studied them. So I'm kind of
curious that, like, oh, all right, let's see let's see
(44:38):
what we got in quarterbacks, Let's see what we got
in defensive linemen. See some of these offensive war daddies
up front. So I'm kind of ready for it too.
It's hard to pride myself away, but I need the
downtime because I'll tell you what, watching tape of all
these guys who are gonna be undrafted free agents. You
know the number, the number four hundred and forty eight
player on the consensus big board, and sadly I know,
(44:59):
I like I could tell you a lot about him.
I'm ready for that to be done. So I really
loved the twenty four draft season. I appreciate all the
fans who you went along for the ride, and we're
ready for more but a little break.
Speaker 3 (45:15):
Jeff Risdom from Draft Wire find them on X Jeff.
We appreciate the time, man, Thanks so much for joining
us on the Giants Little Podcast.
Speaker 4 (45:21):
Thanks so much for having me appreciate it.
Speaker 3 (45:22):
It was brought to you by Citizens, the official bank
of the Giants. I'm John Schmelk. Enjoy your weekend. We'll
see you next week. Everybody
It's time to get inside the Giants huts.
Speaker 2 (00:02):
Let's go.
Speaker 1 (00:03):
Let's go Giants. Dont come on my Giants bubble.
Speaker 2 (00:07):
Give me some job.
Speaker 1 (00:07):
Part of the Giants Podcast Network.
Speaker 2 (00:09):
Let's roll.
Speaker 3 (00:10):
Welcome to another edition of the Giants Little Podcast, brought
to you by Citizens, the official bank of the New
York Football Giants.
Speaker 2 (00:15):
I am John Schmelck. Thank you so much for joining
us today.
Speaker 3 (00:18):
By the way, go back if you have some time
and go check out our last episode. We took all
of the player interviews from the weekend with Chon O'Hara,
Manlin Burke, and the newest members of the Giants, and
we put them all together into one podcast so you
could easily check them out and listen to it to
go check that out. Now, we welcome in our guest
Jeff Brisden. He joined us every year during the draft process.
(00:40):
He didn't have a chance to talk to him before
the draft this year, so I was thrilled to have
a chance to talk to him after the draft to
get his full take on what the Giants have done.
We'll touch on the draft as a whole as well
and everything else that happened in the twenty twenty four
NFL draft. Jeff, it's great to see you, dude. First
of all, tell the folks where you can find all
your great work.
Speaker 4 (00:58):
It's good to be with you again. You can find
me at Draft Wire on USA Today. I also run
Lions Wire, and you can hear me on various radio
things all over the place. So just look me up
on Access Jeff Risden, R, I, S, D O, and
and you'll find me.
Speaker 3 (01:12):
Yeah, all that great stuff on draft Wire, which of
course that shows up on USA Today and stuff like
that and all that stuff.
Speaker 4 (01:19):
Too, right, Jeff probably absolutely, yep.
Speaker 3 (01:21):
Yeah, So make sure you guys go check all that out.
Jeff joined us every year, does a fantastic job talking draft.
So Jeff, let's start at the Giants. They had six
picks in this draft, and I think taking a look
at at kind of how the draft went, I think
it fell pretty well in terms of me. Let's start
that first overall pick at six in the first round.
Speaker 4 (01:41):
They end up taking the league Neighbors.
Speaker 3 (01:43):
Your thought on Neighbors as a player, and the Giants
decision to go with him in that spot.
Speaker 4 (01:48):
Yeah, he's a very impressive player. There were a lot
of people that thought he was better than Marvin Harrison Junior.
I was not one of those, but he's close enough that,
like you get why he was so coveted, got speed, athleticism,
ability to run after the catch for days. That's probably
my favorite trade of his. He can turn a simple
swing pass into a long touchdown. He has enough speed
(02:10):
to beat anybody over the top. He's got the confidence
to do it too. One of the things that I
noticed about him when I met him in Indianapolis he's
bigger than I thought he would be.
Speaker 3 (02:20):
He's thicker, right, He's a thick dude. Yeah, he seems
much closer to six to two than he does a
six foot as well, to be honest with you.
Speaker 4 (02:26):
Yeah, absolutely, And I was expecting a guy that was like,
you know, like five eleven maybe six feet and and
you know, a little bit skinnier. There's some mass there,
and I think that's gonna play very well for his
style because one of the worries before I had seen
him in person was I don't know if you know
he can he take the big hits, and he's built
to take that. So I was very impressed with it. Look,
(02:48):
his his tape is outstanding, and he did it against
very good defensive backs across the SEC. There's a whole
lot Like Emiligue neighbors. He's a very talented player who
will make Daniel Jones and eventually whoever else is playing
quarterback for the New York Giants that much better. He's
he's a and and looking at the needs and looking
(03:08):
at the Giants team, my god, he's he's gonna be
your alpha dog right away on offense and that that's
that's what the team needs in my opinion looking at
it from afar.
Speaker 3 (03:19):
Yeah, and look, Jeff, you love the flexibility too, right
and ye, Lsu. He can play outside, he can play inside.
Which spot do you like him best at?
Speaker 4 (03:27):
I like him so as you know, I also cover
the Detroit Lions. I like him in the Alman Ross
Saint Brown role of playing inside, but moving him around.
You can dictate coverage matchups that way. You can. You
can tip off your quarterback to the coverage that way.
Move him around, start him in, start him in a
bunch formation, move him around a little bit there. There's
any number of things you can do. I like him
(03:48):
because he does have that kind of size. I do
think that he can play outside and probably thrive there.
But if you get him on the slot, he's going
to be facing smaller guys and he can bully them
a little bit. And and again I didn't think that
was that It's certainly gonna be a big part of
his game, but you know, seeing him and then watching
him more like oh yeah, Like like if you look
at the Ole Miss game, he was not shy about
(04:09):
him catching a contested catch and getting physical with the
defensive back and getting your release off of it. And
that's something that you know, for a guy with his
speed profile and his ability to make you know, spectacular
catches down and beyond the defense, the fact that he
can do it in tight spaces too, is also a
really good thing. And you can use that anywhere on
your offense. You can line them up inside, outside, wherever.
Speaker 3 (04:30):
Yeah, And look, it's necessary to game plan for a
guy like this, Jeff. And and that's what I've been
trying to stress here. With the loss of Saquon bark
and another player defense has had the game plan for.
You really didn't have that guy on this offense anymore,
especially with down Waller contemplating retirement, right and you know,
he's been injured the last three years hasn't put together
a big time season for a while. Now, you know,
(04:50):
for a guy like Neighbors, yeah, he can win deep.
But to the point you just made, he can catch
that five yard slant, eight yard slant and take it
for a touchdown at any given play.
Speaker 2 (04:59):
Giant fans remember that one Odell Beckham Junior was here.
Speaker 3 (05:02):
And when that's the case and you can win in
different ways, that defensive cornator is gonna have that guy
circled in red sharpie on his game plan every single week,
which really, to your point, will allow your whole offense
to understand what the defense is doing based on how
they're handling Elite.
Speaker 4 (05:19):
Neighbors, absolutely, and you can create some matchups so some
other guys that way, he's gonna make whoever is else's
catching passes from the Giants that much better because look,
if he starts to go deep, that safety has got
to go there. You cannot ignore that there aren't corners
in the even the best corners in the league are
gonna need some help with him over the top because
(05:41):
he's so capable of cutting that back inside on a
post or breaking it off and coming back like they
need that. That's gonna create a lot more room elsewhere.
So hopefully while the ever gets healthy or plays again,
he'd be a perfect compliment for that sort of thing.
And it sets up very nicely for that sort of
of off the ball action, you know, being able. You know,
(06:03):
you brought up Odell Beckham and he was a guy
that like could make the spectacular but also made the routine.
And I don't think you ever get enough credit for
making the routine. Plays that well, that's something that the
Lake Neighbors does too. You know, he will be able to, Yes,
he can make the highlight real catch, but he will
also make five other ones that are just like a
simple pitch and catch and make them look really good.
(06:25):
And I thought Odell did a good job by that,
and Neighbors can do that too.
Speaker 2 (06:29):
Yeah. Absolutely, I'm Jeff one hundred percent with you on that.
Speaker 3 (06:33):
And I think he's a force multiplier, right, I think
he helps he your point, he helps the entire offense.
Speaker 2 (06:37):
There were some giant fans that.
Speaker 3 (06:38):
Wanted him to go quarterback there in round number one,
the top three guys were all gone. According to reports,
they didn't make an effort to try to go up
there and get Drake May based on what effort since
the draft. While the Patriots said they were open to
making the trade, it was one of those things like, well,
listen to Auburns, but we're really not open to making
a trade there.
Speaker 2 (06:55):
So they went and picked the player.
Speaker 3 (06:56):
So you look at the JJ McCarthy, Michael Penix, Bo Nicks,
and at least for me, the way I had my
board stacked up, you know, I had McCarthy I think
around twenty one, all said and done. I had Nixon
Penis in the mid thirties. So to me, it wasn't
much of a debate. What were your overthoughts to McCarthy
being a Michigan gang.
Speaker 4 (07:16):
You know, I like JJ McCarthy and I do think
that he's gonna do well.
Speaker 2 (07:19):
Yeah, me too.
Speaker 4 (07:20):
I'm not sure that the Giants at six were the
best fit for him. I think he needed to go
to an environment where there is a little bit more
around him, and quite frankly, the Giants just don't have
that right now. That's one of the reasons why you're
picking six. You know, there's some holes there. And I
liked the idea of you know, he was I want
(07:41):
to say that he was twenty first on my board.
So it would have been a reach there. I actually
liked bo Nicks quite a bit. That's a very interesting pick.
We'll probably talked about that a little bit later. But
you're not taking him at six and there it sounds
like there wasn't a lot of interest from anybody other
than Minnesota coming up from within eleven and twenty three,
(08:03):
and they're working off of that to the Giants, you know,
because there was any need to. You're kind of in
an awkward position there where if you take a quarterback,
you're really reaching forward in the way that Atlanta did.
And I don't think you want to beat the Atlanta
Falcons coming out of this draft.
Speaker 2 (08:19):
And we'll talk about that too a little bit later.
Speaker 3 (08:21):
Well, round number two, Jeff Tyler Nuban to the Giants,
had picked number forty seven. He had a second round
grade for me, along with two other safeties. I had
a couple other guys that I thought I liked their
ability to play man to man a little bit better
than him, Jabon Bullard and Jayden Hicks, so I had
him in a little bit higher. But the Giants are
going to play a defensive zone heavy scheme here, and
(08:42):
I think for a guy that you want to looking
at the quarterback, breaking on the ball and anticipating what
the quarterback's going to do.
Speaker 2 (08:48):
I think it's easy to argue that Nuban was the
best safety in this draft class.
Speaker 4 (08:52):
Absolutely and specifically for his own and like you said,
he needs to see the action. He's not a guy
who's going to cover in man. That's not his strength.
That's not what he does. He's a very smart football player.
He's a very reactive football player. He's not necessarily a
dynamic athlete, and I think that's one of the reasons
that kept him out of the first round. But you
can mitigate some of that by playing him in his
zone where he's got, you know, defined responsibilities where he
(09:13):
doesn't have to try to keep up, you know, with
with brock Bauers coming out of the slot, you know,
you don't you don't have to deal with him, you know,
having to cover Terry McLaurin deep on a on a
one isolation play. And I like that for him. A
very good player, underappreciated player. I think because he played
at Minnesota. I think he he played at a Michigan
or a Washington or something like that, a more high
profile football program. I do think he would have been
(09:35):
in regard more because there's that's a really good football player.
Not again, not necessarily the best athlete, but this is
a guy who's not going to ever be in the
wrong spot at the wrong time because he misread a play.
And I think that that's something you know, that that's
solidification of your back end. He's going to help your corners,
(09:55):
He's going to help your linebackers. He's going to be
a guy that will point things out pre snap, like, hey,
you know what, watch watch the running back leaking out
on this, or you know, he's gonna he's gonna read
the Texas route instead of biting hard on the on
the out route. That type of thing. Uh, you can.
You can do a lot with that player, and I
really like it. He does. He does have a tendency
to to, you know, overshoot just a little bit on
(10:17):
run defense. But again, you're dealing with a second round
pick here. This guy's gonna play a very long time
in the league and be a good not great start.
It's one of those guys I see him being like
a guy who has like one or two Pro Bowl
years as a hiccup year, but it's a guy that
you're never gonna be looking to replace. You're like, man,
we're good there, and that's that's kind of what you want.
Speaker 3 (10:37):
Yeah, And he's a guy that had so much experience
over forty starts in Minnesota. Jeff, he's got you can
plug it in your rookie year. And I think you
feel pretty good about at playing him right away too.
Speaker 4 (10:45):
Oh. Absolutely, he can start right away and he will
be an asset right away. And he does have good
ball skills. He's good with the ball in the air.
It's just one of the like I I really like
to fit there because he's he's gonna be a guy
that's gonna you know, you talk about Malik Neighbors being
a force multiplayer, Nuban isn't going to be that to
(11:05):
that extent. But it's a position again where he's just
so solid that other people are gonna have to worry about, like, oh,
like what's going on behind me over here? You know,
they're not gonna have to look over their shoulder because
they know he's going to be where he needs to be.
And that helps him play a little bit freer and
maybe a little bit more aggressively. Maybe it allows your
linebacker to come up and you know, try to poach
(11:26):
your route. Maybe it allows your corner to get a
little bit more aggressive and you know, trying to jam
a little bit more or you know, steer things the
right way. There's a whole lot that you can do
with a very solid all around football player. And that's
what you got in Tyler Nuban.
Speaker 3 (11:40):
Yeah, And I think the other thing I like too here, Jeff,
is if you look back historically, top tier athletes do
not necessarily dominate the safety position the way they do
other positions. Right, It's not like, if you want a
really good edge play, you better have a great athlete, right.
If you want a really good corner, you bet have
a guy that runs really fast. We've seen in the
past safeties that don't test well they come in and
(12:02):
they're still phenomenal players. Because I think, to me, it's
a position that is a lot more what's going on
in your head than it does of what's you know,
how fast your forty dashtime is absolutely.
Speaker 4 (12:14):
Look at Kyle Hamilton who kind of came out Adore
Dame and everybody was like, wow, he's really not a
good athlete. And after about the first month of his
rookie season, you could make an argument that he's the
best safety in the game now after two seasons. Newban
doesn't have that kind of ceiling, but he can be
a poor man's It's Kyle Hamilton. I think I think
Giants fans should be very happy with that.
Speaker 5 (12:35):
You love turf, You're good at it, so you start
a turf fiz business grows, your savings grow, become the
most celebrated name in turf. Are you ready for all
that life rings?
Speaker 4 (12:50):
Yeah?
Speaker 2 (12:50):
Absolutely?
Speaker 3 (12:51):
All right, let's go to the third round here, Jeff,
pick number seventy. But first, a reminder that the Johnsontle
Podcast is brought to you by Citizens, the official bank
of the New York Giants from game data every day.
Citizens didn't ay ready for fans for Giants fans with insides,
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All right, let's jump to Andrew Phillips. You here, pick
number seventy. Jeff, and I said this on a lot
of our Giants Little podcast leading up to the draft.
(13:13):
I had trouble sorting through Day two cornerbacks. I felt
like they were all so close to each other. Nobody
tested particularly great. The guys that had good tape didn't
test well. Some guys that tested really well didn't have
really good tape. There were some big guys, some small guys,
some slot onlies. I had trouble sorting through the mix.
I actually ended up with Andrew Phillips, I think, with
(13:33):
one of my highest third round grades on my board.
So the giants kind of picked them, I think where
he wound up for me. What were your thoughts on
the player and kind of that just kind of middle
group of corners in this year's draft.
Speaker 4 (13:44):
Yeah, you're absolutely right, and it was sort of dealer's choice,
Like it's what are you looking for in your cornerback?
Do you need a press guy? Do you need a
speed guy? Do you need a ball hawk? Do you
need do you want a guy who's gonna come up
and set an edge and run defense, but probably can't
run more than fifteen yards down the field. I like
feel because he's an aggressive ball hawk, he goes after
the ball, he's quick, he's also got long speed. I
(14:07):
don't have his forty time in front of I know
he jumped out. I think it was forty one inches so.
Speaker 2 (14:11):
And I think it's forty was like four four eight,
four four nine, something like that.
Speaker 4 (14:14):
Yeah, and he's fast enough, Like if you watch Kentucky tape,
he's fast enough. And he's an interesting one. I had
some trouble the fact that he was inconsistent to me.
You know, you watch you watch a couple of games
and he's very good, and you watch the Louisville games,
like where is he? And I think that's that's one
(14:36):
of the reasons why he's available in the third round
for you. He had some games that were very impressive,
but he had some that were kind of off. This
is where he trust in your coaching staff, Like, I
know what this guy can do. He can cover. He's aggressive,
he's gonna get in their face. He's gonna talk to them.
He's gonna make receivers uncomfortable with his demeanor. Kind of
feisty guy. We'll go get the ball. He's gonna challenge.
(14:58):
Don't throw a contested catch in his way. He's he's
a little shorter than you want for those, but like
if it's if it's within his reach, he's gonna make
a play on the ball.
Speaker 3 (15:05):
Uh.
Speaker 4 (15:06):
And that's that's a mindset that you want. He pairs
nicely with with Banks, I think is a guy that can,
you know, go get the ball, can can match up,
has confidence, has effusive confidence, I would say, and uh,
you know, not not to to snipe from Afar, but
the New York media requires some things out of their players.
I think he fits that very well. He's he will
(15:27):
not succumb to the pressure of the New York media,
good or bad, and that it does swing both ways.
I think he's the guy that's gonna embrace being on
the big stage and that's kind of what you want
on a cornerback. That that's gonna play a lot for
you early.
Speaker 2 (15:41):
No, I agree, and a couple of things to build
on it. And I'm with you, Jeff.
Speaker 3 (15:45):
I think he does go after the ball, and he
has ball production in terms of knocking pass his way.
Speaker 2 (15:50):
But he never had a career interception.
Speaker 3 (15:51):
But I feel like with this play style, you know,
I feel like those are gonna come, you know what
I mean?
Speaker 4 (15:57):
Yeah, oh yeah. He gets his hands on a lot
and a lot of by the way or in contested
catches where he's fighting with the receiver, and he will
make the past breakup and make sure that he makes
the pass breakup. But he doesn't necessarily catch the ball
all that well. And again you go back to the
old say, you know, that's why he plays defense instead
of wide receiver. He's very, very smart in terms of
(16:17):
picking up on the routes, but he will occasionally overreact
to a fake. He will bite on double moves. Those
are things that you know you have to get ironed out.
But again that's why you're looking at a third round pick.
But you know that you're right. Man. That jumbled Day
two and early Day three cornerback class. There were a
lot of guys that like, I think he could probably
be pretty good somewhere, but I don't know if he's
(16:39):
going to be good everywhere. And Andrew Phillips is one
of those guys. So hopefully it pans out for the
Giants on that because he doesn't have to come in
to be the number one. I like that, and I
think that that's that's that's something that he's got in.
Speaker 2 (16:52):
His favorite there and the Giants have said they going
to start him in the slot.
Speaker 3 (16:54):
And I think with his physicality and his spicy in
his willingness to stop the run. He had some mistackles issues,
but he he was he was willing tackler, and he
was physical, and I think that's what you want out
of a slot guy.
Speaker 4 (17:04):
Yeah, you want to he does he absolutely, he will hit.
He doesn't rap, and he's got to learn to think
those the hips when he when he does hit and rap.
If so, But again that's that can be taught. And
I'm not, you know, not to disparage the Kentucky football program,
but there was some lack of attention to detail a
lot that showed with that Wildcat see because they kind
(17:25):
of had more talent than they might have showed in
the record.
Speaker 3 (17:28):
Yeah, and frankly, I still remember going back watching We'll
Love Us last year and I think he saw some
of that in attention to detail even the year prior.
Speaker 2 (17:35):
Uh round four for.
Speaker 3 (17:36):
The Giants Jeff thel Johnson, Uh drops all the way
to the fourth round.
Speaker 2 (17:40):
Uh, That's about where I had him.
Speaker 3 (17:42):
But I know a lot of people had a late
second a late second round or even round three grade
on depending on who you talk to. And unlike safety,
where we talked about how testing is not a big
predictor of success, tight ends the opposite. You want to
draft a guy with traits and then on the guy
would trace the develop and Theo Johnson has space.
Speaker 4 (18:01):
He absolutely does, and he didn't get to show it
very much at Penn State for a variety of reasons.
I went to the Senior Bowl and I watched him
down there, and he was so far and away the
best tight end at the Senior Bowl. He got opened
against linebackers, he got opened against safeties. There were a
couple of times where they tried to fig your corner
against him. That the crispness to his rouse, with his
(18:22):
speed at his size is really impressive. He's the guy
that he's one of those guys, you know, the proverbial.
He's going to be better as a pro than he
was in college simply because the college didn't really know
what they had in him. I will use the analogy
of George Kittle at Iowa. I am not saying in
any way that Theo Johnson is going to be George Kittle,
(18:42):
but that sort of like blossoming at the next level
where if you did if you just looked at the stats,
you're like, oh, okay, and then you watch the player like,
oh all right, I get that again. He's not George Kittle,
but that sort of like jump in production and ability
you're going to see more of him, hopefully in New
(19:03):
York than what he did at I or at Penn
State rather and uh, you know that's there's a lot
to like about him. Don't ask him to block out
in space. That's not what he's going to do. All
that well, he's not. He's not gonna be an inline
tight end because he's you know, gonna stand up your
your defensive end and stay there. He can chip and release,
he can motion, he can play this sort of an
(19:23):
h back role if you really wanted to. But he's
at as best as a as a split out tight
end receiving weapon, and he can get down the field.
He can chew up yards really quick with that stride.
Good football player.
Speaker 3 (19:34):
Yeah, the good news he does have the size if
he's if he's willing to do it to develop into
a y I think he has the body type to
do it if if he's able to get in there
and improve as a blocker, And I think that's a
big part of it. I think watching him Jeff on tape,
I didn't quite see the highest that level of athleticism
that I think we saw from the testing for me.
Speaker 2 (19:54):
I don't you could tell he was a build up
speed guy.
Speaker 3 (19:58):
I didn't feel like he was a sudden as a
guy like Kittle, but you certainly see between the size,
the weight, the wingspan, the testing speed.
Speaker 2 (20:07):
I mean, all the numbers from the jumps.
Speaker 3 (20:09):
To the cones, to the to the agility to the speed,
we're all good and you hope into a different system.
You know, you could just see him running those seam
routes in the NFL all day long with that size.
Speaker 4 (20:22):
And again he's he's going to be able to attack
in a zone between the linebacker and the safety role
red zone. You just got yourself a fantastic red zone
target who can go get the ball. And he does
go get the ball in there. He's not a guy
that waits for it. He's he will stretch out and
make the catch away from his frame. That was one
of the things that he really did very well with
the Senior Bowl, and I think that that does translate
(20:43):
very well to the NFL. Yeah, he's not a dynamic
like off the line guy. He's not gonna he's not
going to break ankles at the line. He's not going
to be that kind of guy. But you know, I
thought he was worthy of going in the third round,
just based on potential an upside to get him in
the fourth that's a good pick. It's a good pick.
He definitely helps the Giants out this year and he
(21:05):
will be a good friend for again for Daniel Jones
and if Jane Jones eventually moves on, whoever succeeds him
at quarterback, you always want to have that big, reliable target.
That's what he can be.
Speaker 3 (21:17):
And then in the fifth round, Jeff, they end up
going with Tyrone Tracy, who's a really interesting player. You know,
he hasn't played running back a ton but and you
can tell when you watch him he hasn't played running
back and.
Speaker 2 (21:29):
He's kind of all over the place.
Speaker 3 (21:30):
But he's a fun player to watch, and he's got
the athletic upside that you like at the position he does.
Speaker 4 (21:36):
And you're you're picking this one strictly on upside, because
if you're looking at his tape, it's like, okay, all right,
like can you do you have any vision at all?
You know, that sort of thing. But he's he's a
great athlete. He's a hard worker. He's shown that he
can do a lot of different things for a team.
He could be a return man, as a guy that
comes in and with the kickoff change. That's that's one
(21:58):
of the things that a few teams mentioned and across
the league that they were looking actively for a different
type of return man. You want a guy who's not
just fast, but has a little bit of wiggle to
him and has a little bit of you know, balance
through contact, and that's something that he does show and
did show him at Produce. So there's there's you know, again,
(22:20):
you're betting on traits here, you're betting on upside. You're
betting on your coaching staff being able to develop into
something more than he's been. And he would I'll say this,
I don't think he would have been there at their
next pick. So if they were looking for a guy
like that, they went and got him when they needed.
Speaker 2 (22:35):
To, I'm with you.
Speaker 3 (22:37):
And then around six, Darius Mussau at a UCLA jack
and I had not watched him before the draft.
Speaker 2 (22:43):
I went back and watched him after the Giants picked him.
Speaker 3 (22:45):
Fun player, you know, undersized, you know, I think he
waited into two twenty five at the combine.
Speaker 2 (22:50):
His testing speed wasn't good.
Speaker 3 (22:51):
But he's the guy that when I watched him on
tape maybe the top speed's not great. He looks sudden
to me like he did have quickness side the side
he was able to blitz.
Speaker 2 (22:59):
I think he's twitchy. I think he right away.
Speaker 3 (23:02):
You put him on special teams and you try to
develop him on defense.
Speaker 4 (23:06):
Yeah, and he's another guy. He's got to learn to rap.
When he hits, he will come up and smack you
in the mouth. But if you're big or get a
stiff arm out, he's kind of gonna be laying there
watching you run past him. So that a guy that
I think again, special teams, I think you hit it
on the head there. I think that's where he's gonna
make his difference as a nickel backer who comes in
a dime package backer. He has some coverage ability. I'd
(23:30):
like to see that improve a little bit.
Speaker 2 (23:32):
Jeef. That's the thing. I'm sorry for interrupting you.
Speaker 3 (23:34):
It drives me nuts watch in college be over a
two hundred and twenty five linebacker that can move, yet
they don't ask him to cover like he's a blitzer
for them. I went, I tried to find coverage snaps.
Speaker 4 (23:47):
I couldn't.
Speaker 3 (23:49):
Really, is it the college keeps saying this isn't just
you know him, college keeps sending these two hundred and
twenty five pounds linebackers of the pros that he didn't
ask to cover in college.
Speaker 2 (23:59):
What the hell is supposed to do with these guys?
It's hard.
Speaker 4 (24:02):
I don't know. We have one in Detroit and Steel
Chambers as an undrafted free agent. Yeah, why why aren't
you doing what your physical talents should allow you to do?
And that's a college football to pro football transition issue,
and it comes up a lot that comes up with
offensive linemen too, Like you've got an incredibly athletic offensive
lineman in college and you ask him to just stand
(24:24):
there and absorb, Like, let him go get somebody. I
don't think the college is. That's one of the reasons
when you're looking at projections of how they translate from
the college to the pros, it can be very difficult.
Sometimes the entire UCLA defense is a difficult projection because
I don't think that they played.
Speaker 6 (24:41):
A very to say that it's I actually like Jim
Kelly too, but they don't play a style that's very
conducive for a lot of their players to translate to
the next or to see how they translate to the
next level because they're just sort of okay, all right,
you know.
Speaker 4 (24:55):
I don't get it.
Speaker 2 (24:58):
Like you watch his skill set and his agility. He
looks like a guy that should be able to cover you.
Speaker 3 (25:04):
We just haven't seen him really do it, which is
why it's frustrating for me at least.
Speaker 4 (25:08):
Yeah, and and upside is there. He's not super fast.
He's not long speed fast two or three steps though
he's pretty good. He's pretty sudden on that he will
and again he will come up and hit you. He
does have some pop behind his pasts. He does sink
his weight pretty well. He's just got to learn to
rap and be a little bit more. One thing that
I did notice he will overrun the point of attack
(25:30):
and run defense. I think that's gonna be something that
he's got to get either coached out of him or
just you know, put him in, put him where he
doesn't have to cover both ways, where he can just
go to one spot and sit there. If you remember
Jared Davis, Jared Davis had that same sort of problem.
I see him as sort of a poorer man's Jared Davis,
(25:50):
which you know probably doesn't go over all that well.
But there's a fit for that, and hopefully he'll he'll
he'll improve on the things he needed to improve on
a niche where there he look. Late round picks, you
gotta find one thing that you offer the team that
nobody else does on your roster. If he finds that,
he'll stick and play for a little while.
Speaker 3 (26:10):
I remember Jared Davis I think was a first round pick, right, Jeff,
if I recall.
Speaker 4 (26:14):
Correctly, yes, he was in Detroit. It did not go well.
Speaker 3 (26:17):
So I don't think comparing a sixth rider to a
first round there will will necessarily get Giant fans two upset.
Speaker 2 (26:21):
I think that's okay.
Speaker 3 (26:23):
Just as a reminder, folks that the Giants Little Podcast
is brought to you by Citizens, Giant Fans level winner.
It's why they love Citizens named the twenty twenty two
best bank in the US by the Banker as the
official bank of the Giants and sponsor of the Huddle,
Citizens is made ready for fans in Big Blue. Learn
more at citizensbank dot com. All right, Jeff, let's talk
about the draft in general before we get the classes.
Just some of your individual picks or players that you
(26:45):
thought would the really good spots or you thought were
really good value throughout the draft.
Speaker 4 (26:49):
Yeah, and I'll actually start with a second round pick,
Johnny Newton to Washington. To me, he was the best
defensive player in this draft. H and the fact that
he fell to the second round. I watched him and
it was like I was watching Gerald McCoy tape back
in his day of number three overall pick. He's so disruptive.
(27:09):
He is an attack dog. Really really good fit. I
really like that one. You know.
Speaker 3 (27:15):
The funny thing is like the one position that Washington
actually had players at, but it was such good value
they had to pick the player because he was sitting
there like a sore thumb.
Speaker 4 (27:24):
Yeah. And it's from what I've gathered from talking to
to people who cover some other teams, it was like
he was always like playing b at their spot from
like fifteen through thirty. But they got their playing a
The way that played out very chalky, you know, like, Okay,
all these guys sort of went Other than a couple
which we'll get to, it was very predictable. And I
(27:46):
you know, I like Joe All as an example, Joe
All going to a Jim Harbaugh coach team. Come on, now,
what a fit? Like? I know, it's a number five
overall pick, and you're gonna like these things. But that's
a really good fit for the Chargers. And yes they
do already have Ray Shawn Slater, but you're gonna give
Justin Herbert a bookend tackles like that for a long time.
(28:08):
That allows you don't have to worry about your offensive line.
Now you're good, Like I like that sort of mindset
with with that. Neighbors to the Giants is one of
my more favorite picks. I really liked Romo Dunzie going
with Kleb Williams to the Bears, Like I was not
the biggest Kleb Williams guy, Jaden Daniels with my number
one quarterback. But if you're gonna make Caleb Williams work,
(28:31):
you better have guys like Romo Dunzee who can make
ridiculous catches. I'll tell you a quick story. I went
to the Washington game at Michigan State this year just
watching a Dunzee warm up on the sidelines, like intentionally
having their backup quarterback throw him passes that are just like,
go catch that at your shoetops, go catch at over
the linebacker who's not even looking like and he made
(28:53):
it all look easy and great, and he's got he's
got a fun personality. So I really like that pick.
Speaker 2 (28:57):
Did you have a Doomsay or Neighbors high on your board?
Just at a curiosity, I had a Dunes.
Speaker 4 (29:01):
Say they were one was a in migrating scale. I
used the graty scale that our Lands scouting does. That's
kind of how I was brought up. They were one
point point zero one apart. So there it's like, you know,
dealer's choice that they're both got fantastic, fantastic prospects not
to not to you know, poor Salt on the nfcast.
I really like Quinnon Mitchell to the Eagles. That's the guy.
(29:26):
He compares very well to Darius Slay. He's Darius Slay
two point oh. He's got Darius Lay one point oh
for at least a year to teach him how to
be that good of an NFL player. I really liked
that pick.
Speaker 3 (29:37):
A good fit, honestly, Jeff, I saw Star for Dugney again.
But I thought you mentioned Washington Philly are ready. I
thought I thought all four NFC East teams honestly had
really good drafts fitting needs and value with a lot
of their picks, which which I wish I wasn't saying that,
but I think if feeling on Cooper Degene in round two,
which is an unbelievable ad. Washington had such volume and
(29:59):
then Dallas got the offensive lineman they need. I know,
you'll probably be more Shawn nelan guy being from your
midwestern area, right.
Speaker 4 (30:05):
Well, yeah, he's he's from a local high school here,
got one high high school and gran Rapids, Michigan, which
is not too far from where I live. Good player,
probably not a high end player, but a good fit.
And Cooper bb Man. I loved Cooper.
Speaker 2 (30:18):
I had a second round right off.
Speaker 4 (30:20):
Him, so I did too. I would have been okay
if the team took him in the first. Quite honestly,
his his He will come in at a Pro Bowl
caliber level. And it reminds me so much of when
they got Martin down there, like everybody overthought him, and
they overthought Cooper bb too.
Speaker 5 (30:38):
So you're ready for a change. Pay day comes early
with citizens, So go to that retreat. Knew you move
to the country. Now you're raising goats and launching a
lifestyle brand. Are you ready for all that life brings?
Speaker 3 (30:54):
And like a couple of years ago. I was not
a big fan of the Tyler smith pick. I thought
he was raw. I thought he was heap, his hands
roll over the place. And you could say the same
stuff about Tyler Goyton in some ways right.
Speaker 2 (31:05):
Where he his hands did a lot of work.
Speaker 3 (31:07):
But the Cowboys at this point, I think you have
to trust him to be able to develop offensive line.
And because they've done such a good job of it
over the last.
Speaker 4 (31:14):
They have shown that. I was with you. Goton wasn't
even in my top sixty players.
Speaker 2 (31:17):
Oh wow, Wow, he was that low for you.
Speaker 4 (31:19):
Huh. I just I he didn't have the focus with
his hands, with his feet, he's all over the place
now again when he did put it together at times, Okay,
all right, I like it. It's good, but I'm worried about him.
But he did go to a place like to your point,
(31:39):
they have a good offensive line coach and they have
a good they have a good sense for who can
work with their offensive line, and I think that's that's
an asset that they've got. The Unfortunately, Giants have to
go up.
Speaker 3 (31:49):
Against any other players or classes that that really stood
out to you.
Speaker 4 (31:54):
You know, I'm gonna give I'm gonna give my Detroit
Lions a little bit of love. Terry and Arnold trading
up for him was the number one defense player on
their board. I loved him. He was a top fifteen
prospect for me. The biggest weakness on their team was
outside cornerback. They went and addressed it. So I'm very
happy with that. He's he's he's got flair and that's
something that that secondary needed. That's a good one.
Speaker 2 (32:17):
You know the funny things, Jeff.
Speaker 3 (32:18):
Last year, everyone, oh, you know Jamior Gibbs and Campbell
they worked out. There were such great picks, and I
was sitting here saying, yeah, they were good picks, but
they could have drafted a corner and they really needed
one of those. So we'll see if it was good
long term. But now I feel like getting Arnold this year,
and then they got Ricky Straw later on. Right, If
I'm not mistaken, second round picked up two corners this year.
(32:39):
It makes last year's pick league even better because you
made up for what you didn't pick with those picks
in last year's first and second round.
Speaker 2 (32:46):
So I'm with you.
Speaker 3 (32:47):
I thought the lines did a really nice job picking
up both those guys.
Speaker 4 (32:51):
Hopefully it translates to the field.
Speaker 2 (32:52):
Fingers crushed, except when they play the Giants go ahead.
Speaker 4 (32:57):
Well yeah, obviously for you all, but yeah, that's I'm
trying to think. Who. Also, I thought Kansas City did
a pretty good job of maximizing their draft value for
where they were at. Again, I'm not necessarily crazy about
all of their picks, but I think they got guys
where they should have gone they didn't reach, And they've
had like taken Fau last year and he barely played
(33:18):
as a rookie. You know, they've had some Regent Clyde
Edwards Hilaire is like, what are you doing like that?
That's a that's a third round guy you're taking in
the first round. I thought they did a very good
job of finding guys who fit what they want when
they needed to get it.
Speaker 3 (33:31):
So I thought Sumataeo was a very good value at
the end of round too. I know he had some
you know, maybe personality stuff that some teams were a
little wary of, but much like Geyt and you know
him and Guiding, I didn't have that far away from
each other on my board, to be I thought they
were similar to it a Morgan kind of in that neighborhood.
Speaker 2 (33:47):
With them too.
Speaker 3 (33:48):
I had them more like beginning into the first round,
beginning of the second. But again, just a really big
guy with just so much physical ability that you just
have to hone in on a little bit.
Speaker 4 (33:58):
Yeah, and Sue Am, I thought you is a guy
who he could be your starting red card for a
long time if he ever learns how to get his
One of the things that you noticed in watching BYUSA,
but it was very true the Senior Bowl too. He's
so tall in his stance on the snap, even in
a two point stance. It's like, wow, man, like, just
sink that down because he's he's a big dude, but
(34:19):
he's not like freakishly tall, freakishly big like that, so
they can work on that. That's good. Glad you brought
up Jordan Morgan. That's another one Packers got a They
got a really good player there. I think a lot
of folks put it out of mind that he missed
twenty twenty two. He came back, he was he has
He had the best tape against Latu Latu, who's a
(34:40):
very good football player. And I like that pick too,
But Jordan Morgan is gonna be really good in Green Bay,
which you know, unfortunately we're fluffing up all these NFC
teams by and large, they had they had come drafts.
Speaker 2 (34:51):
Man, how about like day three?
Speaker 3 (34:53):
How about like day three guys that you kind of
fell in love with and you just think are gonna
be good players that are gonna make it.
Speaker 4 (35:00):
Yeah, and I will go back to my Lions real
quick on that. Christian Mahogany out of Boston College was
the guy that I would have been happy if they
took him in the second absolute snow plow of a
run blocker, wasn't gonna fit a zone scheme, but for
a gap power scheme like the Lions run, He's going
to be fantastic for that. So that's the guy that
I really liked.
Speaker 3 (35:19):
The lines that one of the players really late that
they ended up trading back in for not not the
game from British Columbia there was, so they give to
someone to Mahogany very closely.
Speaker 4 (35:30):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (35:31):
Yeah the running back right, well or is he safety?
You will have to find out.
Speaker 4 (35:34):
Right, Yeah, he will be a running back. He will
play special teams a lot, So that'll that'll be an
interesting one. I'm trying to think about the day three
guys that I liked. I can't excuse me because I
do prep on this too. I liked what the Texans
did on Day three better than I will what they
did on day one. Day two. They didn't have a
Day one pick, but they got some players that I
(35:56):
think are going to be helpful there. And you know,
that's a team they're poised to go up with c. J.
Stroud and getting a supporting cast around him. And I
thought they did a pretty good job this on Day
three of the draft. Honestly, you know, oh.
Speaker 1 (36:13):
You know what I was thinking of.
Speaker 3 (36:15):
I thought Makai Wingo and the Sand was great value
for Detroit. That's why I was trying to remember. I
had him as like an early third round pick. I
thought he was a really good player.
Speaker 4 (36:24):
Yeah, his problem is that he's you know what, six
one and a half in two hundred and eighty pounds.
That's a very hard size. But if you've got a
plan for a guy like that, you can make that work.
Hopefully Detroit comes up with a plan for.
Speaker 3 (36:35):
That absolutely, all right, What were some of the moves
or picks or classes that kind of had you scratch
on your head a little bit?
Speaker 4 (36:43):
Well, you gotta start with the Atlanta Falcons. I mean,
I'm sorry, I can't help, but lath that they took.
They took Michael Panics junior at number eight, just after
they gave Kirk Cousins all that money. They can not
get out of Kirk Cousins deal for at least two
more years, and they didn't tell Kirk Cousins that it
(37:05):
was gonna happen, Like, how do you screw up that badly?
I like, I generally like Terry Fonto. I think he's
done a pretty good job of assembling a core talent there.
But my goodness, that's like that's the sea. Their division
is there for the taking. Like the the NFC South
(37:26):
is pretty wide open. I don't think Carolina is close yet.
But New Orleans, Tampa Bay Okay, yeah, Tampa Bay is
pretty good football team, but they're not that team. If
you get you get Romo Dunzie there, you get you
get Brock Powers there, play Brock Powers with Kyle Piss.
That'd be a lot of fun.
Speaker 2 (37:43):
Yeah, you get Byron Murphy one of the pass rushers, Like.
Speaker 4 (37:46):
Yeah, exactly, get a lot to get get Dallas Turner.
Like everybody thought they were going to do get Quinnon, Mitchell,
get Terry and Arnold like, there were so many other
ways that they could have helped their football team challenge
for a division title and a home playoff game or
two in twenty twenty four, twenty twenty five, and they
threw that all away for a an I was, I
(38:09):
have to do it. I was not a Michael Penni's guy.
The injury scare the tar out of me. Four separate
season ending injuries at Indiana. I know he avoided them
at Washington, but that's one of the reasons why he's older.
That's one of the reasons why he adopted adapted his game.
And everybody at the Common was like, oh wow, he
can run. Yeah, he ran a whole lot Indiana and
look what it did for him. It kind of thurned
(38:31):
your guild. You know, two separate shoulder separations that required
a surgery. Two separate is the l's that require Like,
I'm not a fan of that pick at all.
Speaker 2 (38:40):
And you know, you have to think about it.
Speaker 3 (38:42):
And this is the point that Daniel Jeremiah made on
the Move the Sticks podcast, which was a good one.
You know, if you really love Panix and you want
to pick him an eight. Fine, you should have known
that when you got the free agency, right, Like, at
that point, your hay should have been pretty much in
the barn. Your combine is done, You've watched all the tape,
the senior balls in the bag. If you really love
(39:04):
Penis that much, you feel really good he's going to
be there at eight, that no one's gonna pick him
ahead of you, right, Why would you then spend all
that money on Cousins. That's why it almost feels like
this is one of those like maybe it was an
ownership pick or something. It just it seems like a
really weird decision for the front office if they knew
they loved Penis that early in the process to go
(39:24):
out there to to to to pay Cousins and then
you know, draft him eight.
Speaker 2 (39:30):
I don't know.
Speaker 3 (39:30):
To me, I feel like something in the decision making
process is missing, and I've been trying to figure it out,
and I don't have a real good answer, to be
honest with you, I don't either.
Speaker 4 (39:41):
That's one that you saw the shot of their draft
room and Arthur Blank coming up, and you know, like, hey,
what what happened here? I think I think that was
a very appropriate action for him. Yeah, that's I just
don't get that one man some other classes. So in general,
I liked what the Pittsburgh Steelers did, like Trey Fatana
(40:03):
home run, the fact that they took all those offensive
linemen that that's a little bit of overkill. There might
might be an overreaction to not having it because they
took a couple last year and those guys are bad. Like,
if they all can play together, that's great, but there's
a couple of guys who are very redundant with one another,
and I'm not sure that that's they had other needs.
(40:25):
I know. I know Steelers fans will tell you that
they didn't really have any needs at all. That the
best team in football, and you know that shouldn't be
ever questioned. But I say that I'm a Clevelander, so
I have a little bit of an attitude about that.
They got good football players. I just I struggle to
see how they all fit into their grand scheme of things.
(40:46):
So you know, I wouldn't hate it if I was
a Steelers fan, but I would I would stand a
question like is there a plan on how all these
guys are gonna work?
Speaker 3 (40:55):
And I will say they definitely drafted to their brand man.
They drafted a bunch of big, bruising, physical guys, even
Roman Wilson, Right, he's a guy that blocked the line
of Michigan playing for Jim Harbaugh. So they certainly drafted
to the personality that I think Mike Tomlin wants to
have for his team, and that's.
Speaker 4 (41:11):
That's what they do. Another one that I wasn't I
thought Seattle hit a home run with their first round pick,
and the rest of their draft was like, oh, now,
they didn't pick a lot, but I don't know about
this guys, Like, there was every spot there was like
four or five other guys that were available that I
would have taken over the guys that they took. And
that's that's sort of a stilted way to look at it,
(41:33):
and you know, it's ejecting my opinion on their draft,
and that's not fair to their draft because I'm not
a Seattle Seahawks officionado. I don't know everything about that team,
but I just felt like they could have done better
than what they did, so you know, and uh, in general,
I'm also not a fan of drafting punters or kickers,
and they did go I will say joshuaccarty will record
(41:58):
the kicker from Arkansas who went. They're phenomenal prospects as kickers,
but I just I really don't like drafting them.
Speaker 3 (42:06):
Yeah, and Tory Taylor went, you know, from Iowa, who
certainly pumped it a lot there.
Speaker 2 (42:12):
I mean that, that's for sure.
Speaker 4 (42:13):
He had a lot of un He was their offensive MVP.
They didn't name him that, but he should have. Bet
he was really really good at it. Great again, great punter.
Just the difference between having the best punter in the
league and the fifteenth best punter in the league is
kind of negligible.
Speaker 2 (42:31):
All right, bowys, say goodbye.
Speaker 3 (42:34):
Give me just any final thoughts you have on the
on either the Giants or the draft class, the NFC.
Speaker 2 (42:38):
Anywhere you want to take this to the floor is yours.
Speaker 4 (42:41):
Yeah, you know, I think I really like the Washington
Commanders draft class. I don't do draft grades. They would
have gotten the highest draft rate if I had one.
And we talked a lot about Philadelphia and Dallas. The
Giants are in a spot where they're looking up and
the teams that are above them got better. So I
would say my message to Giants fans would be be patient.
(43:04):
With your guys because you've got some good football players,
you have potential coming and like your window is different
than theirs, and judge your window on what your window is.
And I think that that's a good spot to start.
But the overall fun draft, there's twenty twenty five stuff
coming out already. I'm not ready for that yet. I
(43:27):
will start watching couple days, but until then, so I'll
say is you guys are my last media appearance of
the twenty twenty four NFL Draft, and I'm I'm very
happy to be on with you, but I'm also happy
that this is over. It's yeah, a long slog.
Speaker 2 (43:43):
Me too.
Speaker 3 (43:43):
We have our final episode of our draft season podcast
next week. Tony Tony Pollie and I do that and
we're recording on Friday, and that is our look ahead
the twenty twenty five. So the last two days, Jeff,
I actually have been watching guys for the twenty twenty
five draft.
Speaker 4 (43:58):
Oh God, bless you.
Speaker 3 (44:00):
And then I'm gonna put it aside for like a
month and a half and be like, all right, I'm
gonna go watch them OTAs and watch them NFL football
for once, and I don't have to worry about watching
college guys. But look, when it comes to the draft,
as you well know, the process never ends. Is there's
always one more guy to watch, which is why it
kind of makes it fun in a lot of ways,
you know what I mean.
Speaker 4 (44:18):
I am secretly looking forward to watching a lot of players.
So when I watch college football, I tend to focus
on the players that are gonna be draft eligible. So, like,
I'm aware of who a lot of these guys are
that are that are being mocked in the two early mocks,
but I haven't really studied them. So I'm kind of
curious that, like, oh, all right, let's see let's see
(44:38):
what we got in quarterbacks, Let's see what we got
in defensive linemen. See some of these offensive war daddies
up front. So I'm kind of ready for it too.
It's hard to pride myself away, but I need the
downtime because I'll tell you what, watching tape of all
these guys who are gonna be undrafted free agents. You
know the number, the number four hundred and forty eight
player on the consensus big board, and sadly I know,
(44:59):
I like I could tell you a lot about him.
I'm ready for that to be done. So I really
loved the twenty four draft season. I appreciate all the
fans who you went along for the ride, and we're
ready for more but a little break.
Speaker 3 (45:15):
Jeff Risdom from Draft Wire find them on X Jeff.
We appreciate the time, man, Thanks so much for joining
us on the Giants Little Podcast.
Speaker 4 (45:21):
Thanks so much for having me appreciate it.
Speaker 3 (45:22):
It was brought to you by Citizens, the official bank
of the Giants. I'm John Schmelk. Enjoy your weekend. We'll
see you next week. Everybody
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