August 27, 2025 • 44 mins
John Schmeelk is joined by the Executive Director of the Panini Senior Bowl and former NFL scout, Drew Fabianich, to talk about scouting for the entire NFL now, making the watch list of prospects for the Senior Bowl, and what teams to keep an eye on this year.
:00 - College watch list
10:30 - Transfer portal chat
20:18 - NIL’s impact
27:00 - Older prospects
34:15 - Teams to watch
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:03):
It's now officially open. This is Draft Season presented by Moodies.
I am John Schmelt from the Hackensack Prity Health podcast studio,
Keep getting Better. We welcome in the new executive director
of the Pinnini Senior Bowl. He is Drew Fabianich, longtime
scout for the Dallas Cowboys. Took over for Jim Naggy
(00:24):
who moved on to Oklahoma to kind of run be
the general manager basically of their program down there, and
Drew was taken over down there at the Senior Bowl.
Thank you so much for doing this, Drew, how are
you today?
Speaker 2 (00:36):
Pleasure John, Thank you for having me. It's pleasure to
be here.
Speaker 1 (00:39):
Really. And I know we're always paying to welcome in
cowboy guest here on our Giants podcast, but we have
done it before.
Speaker 3 (00:45):
Brian brought us.
Speaker 1 (00:45):
A former colleague of yours with the Cowboys has been
on many times. And I'm sure it's a little weird
for you talking to some Giants football as a division
rival for a very long time.
Speaker 2 (00:54):
Right, Yeah, a lot of angst on this one though.
I told my wife last night, I said, I'm not
I'm not used to that of Blue. I'm used to
a different kind of blue, you know. But yeah, it's
it's kind of strange. And I'm sure I'm not many
of Cowboy guests that you've had on the Giants network.
You know, we talked earlier. Jerry Reese and I are close,
and you know we had some great, great games through
(01:15):
my time and his time, and you know, went on paper,
the roster was better one way or the other, it
always went the other way in the game. It was strange,
it really was. I mean, when they were better, we
smoked them, and then we were better, we got smoked
by them. So it was. It's been It's been a
great time, great rivalry, and I hope I'm here to
help you guys too.
Speaker 3 (01:34):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (01:34):
Look, last ten years, I've lived through the Giants not
being able to beat Dak Prescott pretty much since he's
got into the league.
Speaker 3 (01:40):
That has not been fun.
Speaker 1 (01:41):
But I go back to that two thousand and seven
Giant team where nobody thought heading into Dallas in that
divisional round, Dallas coming off the buy I think fourteen
and two that year, if I remember right, for the
Cowboys and just a couple of plays and Mario Barber
ran for like what one hundred and thirty yards in
the first half of that game, and Anthony Henry, if
I remember, I missed that little tackle on Amani Tumor
(02:03):
on the app that kind of turned the game. It
has been a very weird, weird rivalry between these two teams.
Speaker 2 (02:09):
And Patrick Crayton dropping a wide open overball yep.
Speaker 1 (02:13):
And then what twenty eleven when Romo overthrew Miles Austin
right in the regular season game in the night game
at the end where I think he lost the ball
in the lights a little bit right where. Yeah, and
without that, the Giants probably don't make the playoffs when
they eventually win the Super Bowl. So it's funny others,
Robory has kind of gone back and forth.
Speaker 2 (02:30):
Yeah, I notice you said super Bowl. I don't have
any of those rings that you have.
Speaker 1 (02:33):
You know, No, I feel you. And now you have
a brand new role though, Drew. So tell me the
difference between scouting for all thirty two teams now versus
being a college scout for an individual team trying to
put together a list in a group of players that
a specific set of coaches might want, versus guys that'll
appeal to the entire league.
Speaker 2 (02:54):
Well, you see, see my role for fourteen out of
those eighteen years. See, I was the national scout. So
this is kind of almost rote memory for me. You know,
I'm going by school, I'm going you know and raiding
those and actually you know, putting grades on them, just
like I did as a national scout. Now I'm blessed,
don't get me wrong, because Jim put together a really
(03:16):
really good staff here. Jack Gilmore's my head operations, and
I've got Michael Newsom as a scouting assistant, and Jackson
Roby's a scouting assistant. When I walked in the door,
there are already two hundred and fifty players on the board.
Now we end up now where's there's close to seven
hundred that are on the board. But we put together
a list of three hundred and there was a purpose
(03:38):
for that. And my purpose was that I thought that,
you know, again, this is the premiere All Star game,
always has been, always will be. And everybody I talked
about this too, and we sent you know, the packages
and everything. They said, you know, this is now just
a big of honor as the invites are now because
(04:00):
it's such a restricted number and you know, you've read things,
I've gotten bashed left and right. You know, it's an
injustice not to have seven more players from such and
such on it. Well, you know what, there was some
Mendoza lines that I set and there were specifics that
I thought of, And just like the junior piece of this,
there's fifty four juniors on there. Right. Well, those juniors
(04:23):
I deemed as guys over top three round you know,
graded players. Well, the head coaches aren't going to get
as mad at me for putting those guys on the list.
Now it's the fourth, fifth, sixth round guys they want
to keep around for a little bit and develop and
hopefully end up being second or third round guys. So
you know, I'm still going to get a little bit
(04:44):
of grief here and there on certain juniors, but you
know they're now eligible and you know they can play
in the game, so I have to include them because
I've got to put a precise number out there. But
to answer your question in a short, short way, this
is just like stacking a vertical board for the draft,
because these were the top three hundred players regardless of position.
(05:06):
That's all it was. That's all it was.
Speaker 3 (05:10):
And you know you talked about it last year.
Speaker 1 (05:11):
I think the list was more than twice the size,
and sometimes you want to include everybody, but it almost
makes the list not useful when there are so many
players on it, you know what I mean? And I
think I think pairing it down here and finding it
what was absolutely the right thing to do. How hard
was it to get the list down the three hundred
and figuring out some of those Mendoza lines you were
(05:33):
talking about.
Speaker 2 (05:34):
Very difficult. We spent four days together as a staff
and we kept going through every school list that we
had already, you know, manufactured by ourselves, and went, okay,
are these guys you know better than these you know?
Because that's what we did. It's just like I told you,
when you're plugging in a vertical board, you go, which
one's better than such and such. Well, we plug it
in and look at them and go, well, these three
(05:55):
are better than those four. Well let's keep these three alive.
These four are going to go down. And again, the
three hundred is not where we're going to necessarily grab
every single player on our one hundred and forty five roster.
You know, guys can surface, guys can play their way
into an invite. We're not saying that it's just off
of the tape last year. These are the top three
(06:15):
hundred players that we identified and graded as the top
three hundred. And yes, it was hard because I've got
a whole sheet of just the red marks of you know,
guys that we pulled down from the three hundred. So
it took a great deal of time. And again, kudos
to kudos to the staff. I mean, really, and have
I seen all three hundred No, I've probably seen about
(06:37):
two fifty to two sixty, you know, And I trusted
the grades. I trusted them, and you know again because
I've had to get my legs about me and do
a lot of other things that I didn't know were
actually involved in this job, if you know what I mean. No,
it's not just it's not just the game, not even close.
Speaker 1 (06:55):
Oh yeah, I mean you're you're the business side of it.
Speaker 3 (06:59):
I can only imagine.
Speaker 1 (07:00):
It reminds me of whenever I talk to the the Unfortunately,
the Giants have had a bunch of new head coaches
over the years, and the guys that were coordinators always say, man,
all the non football stuff I have to do now,
I just wish I was like drawing up plays and
sitting with my guys in a room compared to all
the other stuff that's not football that I have to do.
Speaker 2 (07:18):
Now I had I had the scouting assistance in with me.
Last couple of days, I've been just trying to catch
up on some guys, right and it'd be like, there's
a text alert, there's an email alert, there's another call,
and I'm going like, okay, could people just leave me
alone for just a half hour just so I can
get like four guys done, you know. And it's like
and they go, well, we'll just wait, and I was like,
(07:38):
I appreciate it, guys, because I got to knock this out,
you know, because most of the time I'll push back
what I don't need to do at that very moment,
because again, I'd like to feel more comfortable with the players.
And when I'm more comfortable with them, at least I'm
better I can better communicate about them. Does that make sense?
Speaker 3 (07:57):
Absolutely?
Speaker 1 (07:57):
And look, people should go to Senior Bowl dot com
and see the three hundred. Again, it's a watch list.
It's not an invite list. It is not these are
going to be the best guys at the end of
the year list. It's guys to keep an eye on
as the year goes along.
Speaker 2 (08:10):
True, And here's the one I like to take away.
Don't even use the word watch list because it's just
really the top three hundred and you know, we're going
to plug in later on, we're going to identify other players,
but we watch everybody. It isn't like we're just watching
these guys. So that's why I took that out of
there too. It's not. I mean again, I'm just trying
(08:33):
to give value and prestige to this list. And you know,
and one of the guys called yesterday, one of the Lesons,
and he said, he said, I handed it to the players,
said you realize this is this is an hundred. Just
to get this now, you got to play your way
into the game. So you know, I appreciate them following
suit and actually treat it that way too.
Speaker 1 (08:52):
Absolutely, how much did you lean on I'm sure you
have a million buddies around the league here that you've
scouted with and talked to some of the teams and
what they think about the players in terms of how
you put the list together, or were you solely dependent
on your scouting staff at the Senior.
Speaker 2 (09:08):
Bowl right now solely on ours and now through the fall.
I'm sure there'll be plenty of guys that you know,
that I've been close to for years and years that say, hey,
you know, this guy's playing really really well. It's such
and such. You know, you might want to you might
want to include him on you know, take a peek.
I mean, that's where I'm going to rely on those guys. Plus,
we're going to have ten guys that actually are doing
tapework all over the country that are going to cross
(09:31):
check us, and then we're going to cross check their
work on the players that they're going to look at
during the fall. And now they're going to go to games,
you know, specific games that are valuable to them within
kind of a region because we can't afford to send
you know, guys out on school visits. Now I've been
on some school visits because again I was also going
(09:51):
there to present, you know, to the teams, because the
head coaches want me to say what NFL scouts and
what the Senior Bowl are looking for, and you know,
kind of the landscape of college football because you know,
as a GM for the last three years, so I
kind of know their problems and I can put some
of the solutions out there for them and for the
(10:11):
head coaches, they are like, it's better coming from you
because it's a different voice, and coming from us, they go,
it's just the same old, you know thing they're telling
us time and time again, you know about loving the game,
the character and all that. But then coming from somebody
with as much experience as I have, they kind of go, Okay,
I get it, you know, and it just helps them.
So I can't afford to do that with ten guys
(10:33):
out on the road. We don't have a budget like
the Giants or the Cowboys or whatever. We have a
very limited budget.
Speaker 1 (10:39):
The Draft season is presented by Moody's a proud sponsored
the New York Giants, Decodegress, Unlock Opportunity. Learn more at
moodies dot com. The Transferporter portal Drew is really, you know,
transformed college football. How has that impacted your scouting process?
Can guys slip through the cracks? I know it can
give you sometimes a better look at guys because you
see them in different situations, different systems. How has that
(11:01):
impacted the scouting process and how you guys evaluate these
guys with these guys switching teams all the time.
Speaker 2 (11:06):
Well, I really well First of all, we got to
really keep track of where they're going. It's more of
a house cleaning type of thing, and you know, keeping
track of where they are. But here's the one thing
I can tell John, I think it's actually helped the
NFL as far as and I'd be willing to bet
we have like twenty four players on G five or below, okay,
on the list. Well, being a GM in college for
(11:29):
three years, I was looking at all other divisions. You know,
who are this who's just the statistical leaders? You know,
who are the All Americans? Who are the All conference players?
Do they have measurables? Do they have traits? And then
if I had a need, you know, if they jumped in,
we're going to jump all over them. Well, I think
what they're doing is they're taking those quote as you
(11:52):
know before the Miles Austins of the world, you know
the Division two guys and you know the Division three guys,
they're not there anymore. There are already at Alabama, they're
already at Baylor because they're if they're good enough, they're
gonna transfer up. So there's not there's not that quote
sleeper anymore. And put this, I hated that word years ago,
because you know, if you're good enough, the NFL's gonna
(12:14):
find you. There's no such thing. I mean, you know, yeah,
you're playing in a lower division, maybe you're not getting as
much recognition, but all of a sudden you're leading, you know,
leading the nation in past breakups. Well, the NFL is
gonna take notice of that, and they're gonna find you.
And here's the other thing I'll tell you. Being out
on the road, scouts can't shut up. They can't. They
(12:34):
can't keep a secret. They really can't. I mean, so
it's like, hey, I'm at Gardner Web or you know,
Leonora Ryan or whatever, you know, and you know, you
see a guy and you go, oh, he's he's a
real dude. You're gonna tell two of your buddies, and
those two are gonna tell two more, and those two
are gonna tell three more, you know, And so it's like,
there's no secrets in this anymore. You know, there's guys
(12:57):
that don't play against a very good competition during the year,
and that's why they come here because it's the best
against the best, you know. And the perfect example is
that the same Grabel kid from North Dakota State last year.
I mean the league had him as a top of
the third round player. Well he goes is, he has
a great week, has a great game, and goes eighteenth.
(13:20):
Well on a four year contract, that's twelve point seven
million dollars a difference just in that amount of picks,
you know between that time. So I mean, again, how
valuable Senior Bowl. That's how valuable it is. Yeah, yeah,
we might not. We may not have taken to Marcus
wear at ten if he wouldn't have performed well here.
And he tore it up here, So you know, again
(13:42):
that's that's the value I see in it. And and
again that's why I said it's it's the best of
the best yo.
Speaker 1 (13:49):
Il though, Darius Alexander and there from last year too, right,
this small school Toledo, and he wasn't extremely productive there either, right,
like the sack numbers weren't through the roofs. He wanted
to see how he performed again some of these offensive
line and needed a great job.
Speaker 3 (14:00):
The Giants end up getting them in the third round.
Speaker 1 (14:02):
So absolutely, I think the maybe disappointing is the wrong word, Drew,
but I feel like we're just going to see fewer
of these guys to your previous point, from the you
know group of fives, from the fcs, because these you know,
power schools to your point, they pluck these guys now,
so they'll leave a lot of the times because then, look,
(14:22):
it's not the kids faulty're getting offered all this money.
Speaker 3 (14:24):
I take it too.
Speaker 1 (14:25):
Are we going to see fewer and fewer kids from
the non power schools just because of how the transfer
portal works?
Speaker 2 (14:32):
Yeah, I grew. Yeah, I do believe you're right. And
and again I think that those schools, I mean, I
hate to say it this way, but they're going to
become minor leagues for the for the P four. And
that's just how it did. That's just how it is.
And I think a lot of these coaches know that
they can't afford a high enough revenue year, you know
(14:53):
base to actually even come close to competing. I mean,
they just can't. And it's like, but there were certain
schools that that I recruited against in the portal that
you know, I'd throw an offer out there and all
of a sudden such and such had come in, and
such and such come in. I go, I got I'm done,
because because I knew I couldn't compete, and I knew
(15:14):
if I threw an offer out there, it'd be like, Okay, well,
they're just going to come in one hundred thousand dollars
over top of me anyway, So I'm not going to
get him. And again, I want the kids to get
their fair share. But there's got to be something done,
I mean by Congress, by somebody, and get a commissioner
and do a CBA make them employees, because it's it is.
Speaker 3 (15:37):
Really bad while West right, Oh.
Speaker 2 (15:40):
No, it's it's worse than that. Seriously, it changes every
five minutes. Now, I love that about it because my
job in the league for eighteen years. I mean, it
was kind of a kind of groundhog day. The only
thing to change was the players. But I knew exactly
when I knew exactly. I knew the exact flight that
I was flying Indianapolis on every year for the combine.
I knew exactly the flight I was leaving on. I mean,
(16:01):
I knew exactly what tim of Yarrow was going to
be in the Northeast, you know, saying so, but in college,
I mean it could change tomorrow. I mean, did you
see the ruling in West Virginia academically ineligible players are
going to be able to play now in West Virginia.
Speaker 1 (16:17):
Which is kind of weird because then they're not exactly
academically ineligible.
Speaker 2 (16:20):
Then at the well, and are they really students?
Speaker 3 (16:23):
Right?
Speaker 2 (16:24):
So you see what I'm saying that that's strange to me.
I mean because all I ever worried about was, Okay,
did you get his twelve hours? Do you just twenty
four hours? You know? Is he eligible? Is he going
you know, progress towards graduation? You know? Now, I guess
that doesn't matter.
Speaker 1 (16:39):
It doesn't matter.
Speaker 2 (16:40):
Yeah, So I didn't mean to go off, but college
football is I'm not missing put this way. I am
not missing it right now. I'm not.
Speaker 1 (16:49):
Yeah. I mean, look, I've talked to a couple of
college coaches that have taken you know themotions maybe is
the wrong word, but you know, look at Jeff Hafley, right,
he was a head coach in college footballs to become
a coordinator. I mean, I can just imagine having to
recruit all the kids on your own team every year
and every winter.
Speaker 3 (17:08):
I mean, it's got to be exhausting. I can't imagine.
Speaker 2 (17:11):
John, It's not even that. And again I'll go quickly
through it. June is the worst month of your life
in college football. And everybody goes, what, Yeah, you're going
camps on Monday and Tuesday, right, seven on seven, camps
Thursday and Friday, Wednesday, Thursday. Then you got official visits Friday,
Saturday and Sunday the whole month, the whole month. And
(17:33):
it's like the coaches have no life and you're recruiting
twenty four to seven, three sixty five. They get two
weeks off maybe if they're lucky, right, maybe, and it's like,
you know, and again, what's pleasurable about this? Now they're
gonna be wrong. You're getting paid a lot of money
to do that, but your quality of life is awful.
(17:54):
And what was wrong with the old model of doing
your signing day in February and doing your visits, you know,
in December and January when the season was over with,
Because that's how I did it. But now we ramp
it up and go into the year before and then
you have to hold those kids all the way to
December now, and all they do is go, I'm committed
until somebody else give me a better offer. Yeah, yeah,
(18:16):
I mean I heard it. I heard it today in
the radio, kid goes, yeah, I'm committed Mississippi State, but
I'm going to go to see sex out of the schools.
I'm gonna like, well you're not committed then, yeah, correct, sorry, sorry,
I'm there there. I'm the old guy. Get off my
land right now.
Speaker 3 (18:34):
So hey, look, you lived it. I get it.
Speaker 1 (18:36):
I get the frustration awful real quick. You have twenty
four guys. You have nineteen group of five five FCS
guys on your list. As you went through those guys,
We're not going to get into a ton of ninduwel
players here. Any guys that were like, are particularly really
fun for you from you know, those small school guys
that you're like really excited about seeing up close in
perceval if they happen to play well enough to make
(18:59):
the game.
Speaker 2 (18:59):
And in January, I'm kind of interested in seeing Trey
Lance's brother up in North Dakota State, you know, because
he's got traits and you know, and he's athletic. I mean,
so is Trey you know, you know, and he's not
a lower division if you kind of like the ivy,
like the quarterback of Harvard, I mean, yeah, he's worth
looking at. And he's worth, you know, some recognition. He's
(19:22):
he's he's got the right tools, he's got the right traits,
you know, and guess what smart enough getting the Harvard
That tells me a little some too. So you know
that those are the couple that you know, kind of
intrigued me a little bit. You know. I went to
the Manning camp and there were like forty three quarterbacks there,
which was great for me Archie, and you know, Eli
and Payton were absolutely wonderful to me and just fy
(19:45):
for people out there. Elion and Peyton coached their tail
off down there, even with the little guys. I mean
they're in a group the whole day. I mean, they
do a phenomenal job. I mean kudos. But I got
up close and personal with those guys and it was like, Okay,
I kind of liked this guy a little bit on
(20:06):
tape and then I kind of got to reaffirmed but
I saw in person. But then it was sometimes a
little bit of the opposite too. I was like, hey,
I kind of like this guy on tape, but then
I watched him and I go maybe not. You know.
So it was like it gave me, you know, a
really good picture of what the quarterbacks are and this
year's class I think is better than last year's class.
I really do.
Speaker 1 (20:26):
We mentioned the transfer portal and I else. I feel
like in some ways that's maybe helped the game a
little bit because with guys making the money they are
drew in school, they're less apt to leave earlier, so
you're going to have more players eligible for your.
Speaker 2 (20:43):
Game, right, agree and disagree. I agree with guys may
not leave early, and I think this is the reason
why some of them are getting a little bit more
self aware in some of the quote NIL agents or
if the PA agents or actually representing these guys in college,
they may say, you know, hey, you're really a fifth
(21:05):
rounder and you're going to make more staying in college
right now than you're going to make as a fifth
round pick, you know, in the NFL, and you still
have to make the team. So I think you're going
to get the lower end players, the fifth, sixth, and
seventh round, guys sticking around as long as they can
(21:25):
and going Okay, well, you know, hey, I'm better off
here because I know I'm locked in, i know i'm
going to start, i know I'm going to make money.
Then taking that risk of going, hey, I may not
make that team. So now I agree with the high
level juniors coming out early. Now I don't think they'll stay.
(21:47):
I still think they'll come out, and I mean the
first and second round, first and second round guys. You know,
if you're a third round guy, stay in school, you know,
to get try to become a second round guy, just
because like the top of the the bottom of the
top of the third and top of the second, right
on a four year contract, is a seven pointy eight
million dollar difference, right, So you should you should stay
(22:10):
right now. If you're already a high second, you know, stay,
you know you're already first you know, come on, I
mean I idly mean to stay in the seconds, get
out on the second. If you're a third, stay in,
you know. And here's the thing. I've been offering it
to head coaches that I know really really well. The
advisory's not out there anymore either, so they can call
me and I'll give him a value and say, you know, hey,
(22:33):
he should probably stay or he kind of is what
he is. And that's the other thing. I'll go back
to your question. If that guy is a fifth rounder
this year, he's probably a fifth rounder next year. Right,
So as long as he stays in right and makes
his money, and he walks out of college, let's say
he's got four hundred thousand dollars in his pocket. I
(22:54):
don't know by you, you or me, but I damn
sure didn't have four hundred thousand dollars in my pocket
when I left college in my degree. I mean, good starter,
right there, I mean yeah, so, and again I kind
of bounced around a little bit. But you know, I
agree and I disagree.
Speaker 3 (23:10):
Now, look, I think I think that's fair.
Speaker 1 (23:12):
It's funny you mentioned, you know, guys that ain't gonna
be a fifth round pick will probably be one next year.
And you mentioned the quarterback position too. We have seen
the last couple of years, though. I think Drew, you know,
cam Ward almost came out the year previous, right, and
he probably would have been a Day three pick. Maybe
he ends up balling out.
Speaker 2 (23:27):
I don't, I don't know. I think people were kind
of underestimating that a little bit, okay, I mean just
because again because it was of Washington State. He did
put up really really good numbers and the reason why
Miami paid him what they paid him to bring him
down there, right, he.
Speaker 1 (23:42):
Certainly did help himself in Miami, the same way Jayden
Daniels helped himself in his final year at LSU.
Speaker 2 (23:46):
Right, yeah, And see what I'm getting at is and
again I think the quarterbacks are kind of they're not
an anomaly. But in the league, if you're desperate for
a quarterback, you're going to overpay for a quarterback. Of
course you are, I mean, and that's just the nature
of the beast for him, you know, to say he
was like a third day guy, see, I'd say he
(24:07):
was probably more like a fourth round guy, you know,
right at the top of the fourth, maybe bottom of
the third, because he had starter traits. And you know,
out of these twenty four guys, I think there's eight
that have starter traits that could. Now again, they may
not start day one, you know, because there's not going
to be eight you know, places where you know rookie
(24:28):
quarterbacks are going to come and start in the NFL
just not you know, But to say that, I mean,
there are guys all over the league that have been
starters in the league. The Jukrobi Bersetts, you know, of
the world. They've been starters in different places. You know.
Are they good players, yes? And are they qullet. I
meant Cooper Russia started games, right, I mean, that's what
I'm getting at. There's eight guys I think that are
(24:49):
out of the twenty four that are capable of starting
in the NFL.
Speaker 1 (24:53):
So yeah, So where I was going to go with
that is, do you see guys in this group similar
to the cam Wards, the Jaden Daniels, that could kind
of as a just continue their college career, you know,
blow up and really become all right, well, this guy's
not just you know, a third round guy. Now, he
could you know, challenges as like a top ten pick.
Speaker 2 (25:12):
I do, But I also see guys on there that
I go, you know, they might go back, they might
do just like Garrettnsmeyer did. And I thought that was
a great move by Garrett. I really did, because he
was still growing, he was still developing. I mean, he's
the perfect example of just you know, having some wherewithal
to stay somewhere and develop and learn the game and
(25:34):
kind of grow instead of going like, Okay, well I'm
not playing, I'm out, you know, and I'm gonna go
learn in another system and then oh I may not
you know, I may not play there, and then oh
maybe out again, you know, there's no adversity with the
transfer portal. That's what the NFL doesn't like, and that's
what coaches don't like. As soon as there's any kind
of adversity, it's I'm out, I'm EIGHTI out the gate. Right, Well,
(25:59):
guess what you get to NFL. There's a hell of
a lot of adversity.
Speaker 3 (26:02):
You know, And you can't just leave.
Speaker 2 (26:04):
You can't just leave, that's right. You know you can
get cut, you know, really easily, you know. But again
that's and again I know we're kind of bouncing around
a little bit. But yeah, I see there's there's some
favorites I have in that group. And like we talked
about earlier, this time I have personal relationships already. And
it was because you know where I lived, who I
worked with. I you know, I worked with their dads.
(26:27):
I know their dad. I mean, which is you know,
still kills me, you know, not as bad as last
year though I actually had a I actually had a
kid I was recruiting that I played with his with
his granddad. Oh man, Yeah, that really made me feel bad,
really made me feel old. What I said, Herman, Herman White.
He was like, I was like your dad, Herman White.
(26:47):
He goes, yes, where'd your dad play? And he goes
a Mesa and Colorado. I go, oh, wow, wow, you
know that's like I played with your grand dad.
Speaker 1 (26:56):
Grand It's funny you mentioned that of my I thought
Drew Allers and the guy smart to go back continue
to develop, right, I don't want to rush things, and
I think it's I do think that is a good
thing for some of these quarterbacks because look, obviously both
of us have Parcels connections. Right, he was in Dallas.
I'm sure you've heard a million Parcels isms. And look,
(27:16):
some of the stuff has changed, but we've seen just
having a lot of snaps at that position in college
can be so valuable for being ready to play in
the NFL. And I think I don't mind older quarterback prospects.
It just means I know more about you as a player.
Speaker 3 (27:33):
Fine, stay in school. I'm good with that.
Speaker 2 (27:35):
True. But here's here's the other thing. What if those
snaps weren't pro style snaps.
Speaker 3 (27:40):
That's true too, fair See, it takes.
Speaker 2 (27:42):
You longer to develop when you get to the NFL, then,
because I'd be willing to bet you fifty percent of
the quarterbacks don't identify, don't idea mike, don't change protections right,
and don't have more than three or four kill calls
during a game.
Speaker 3 (27:57):
Now they might not even huddle or go under center
for the mistakes.
Speaker 2 (28:00):
No, no, And I mean and Gruden makes fun of
the clap and you know, being in no huddle and everything,
and I'm kind of with him, you know, because guess what,
you got to adapt our game. But yeah, the parcelanisms
were always you know that, you know, hey, you want
to be a three year starter. You know, you want
to be the captain.
Speaker 3 (28:14):
You know.
Speaker 2 (28:15):
I mean, I got them all, you know, and you've
you've heard them all too. And guess what he developed
those because that's what he found were successful. Yep, you know.
And again it's no different when I was scouting or coaching,
because when you're coaching, you're going to steal everything that
you think is really really good, that that fits within
your system, right, you just stealing. Well, there's no other
(28:36):
difference in personnel. When you get taught a lesson in personnel,
learn from it, you know, because mine was mine was
Vernon Golston right had him as a high pick, right,
but I kept having angst about him and kept going,
there's something really bothers me about him, and and I
won't say this on air or anything like that. But
(28:58):
then he flames out. Okay, two years later, the same
player was coming out of college, same angst that I
had by him, Right, I go, Nope, not gonna fall
for it this time. Didn't have a high grade on him,
and he flamed out too. So it's like, you know,
you just learn different ways. And these quarterbacks, I mean,
(29:19):
you know, it isn't just the answer put up five
thousand yards. It's not. And you're in a spread offense.
I mean, you know some of them are made for that.
I mean how many I mean, how many quarterbacks are
thrown from her five thousand yards of Tennessee over the
last like five years?
Speaker 1 (29:35):
Plenty, all of them, all of them.
Speaker 2 (29:37):
Right, Well, that's a great accomplishment. They're good players. But
does it take a little time to assimilate to the game. Yes,
because now you're gonna have to understand protection. You're gonna
have to change. You know, you have to, iidi the mic,
You're gonna have to You're gonna have to control everything
in the forty five second period. You know you do
and you may have to audible, so it is not easy.
(29:58):
So again, I played a position and I know it's
not easy.
Speaker 3 (30:01):
No, it's very difficult.
Speaker 1 (30:02):
And the Giants are going through that with Jackson darr
right coming from No Miss offense where a lot of
stuff is kind of set up for you, and he's
starting to figure it out and it's gonna take some.
Speaker 3 (30:10):
Time and then and then they're certainly going to be
patient with him.
Speaker 1 (30:13):
All right, let's focus in Drew real quick before we
say goodbye, on on some of the position groups here.
Draft season is presented by Moody's, a prop partner the Giants,
uniting the brightest minds to turn today's risk in tomorrow's opportunities.
Learn more at moodies dot com. Any group, position group
really stick out to you that you think is particularly
strong with this year's draft. I've done some summer scouting Drew,
and I just think it seems like another big person
(30:34):
draft to me, where it's you know, if you're looking
for big guys up front, this is probably gonna be
pretty good draft for you.
Speaker 2 (30:39):
I agree with that. In the offensive line, I think
it's a little lower or a little less In the
defensive line, except for the edge rushers. I think there
are more edge rushers this year.
Speaker 1 (30:49):
And bigger edge rushers too, right, Like a lot of
these like two hundred and eighty pound guys like old
school Bell Belichick edges.
Speaker 2 (30:55):
Yes, So that so I kind of agree and I disagree.
I think the offense will line is probably about the same,
maybe a little bit stronger at tackle, but maybe a
little lesser at center. Right. The quarterbacks, I feel good about.
The running backs. I feel really good about you know,
actually coach against a lot of these guys. It's just
like I know them. The receivers are really really heavy,
(31:20):
like as twos and threes, not in the round two
and three, but I mean as team's two and three.
But there's not a lot of ones, you know. The
safeties are a little light. I think the linebackers are
always going to be light, and I think they've been
light for about six or seven years now. And I
think that's just because seven on seven and spread offenses,
(31:42):
and guys don't want to play linebacker, you know, they
want to play tight end, they want to play h back,
they want to touch the ball or whatever.
Speaker 1 (31:49):
I still think that's one of the most difficult positions
to scout. Going from college to the pros, you're almost
ask them to do completely different things the two levels.
Speaker 2 (31:56):
It is because you're not you're not in a space
game all day long like you're in college, you know,
and you really have to actually take on blocks, which
is is kind of a lost art. Corners are good.
I'll say this then I'm not going to give anything
away because I'm not going to say his name. But
there's a safety that I think could be the next
(32:18):
Dad read.
Speaker 3 (32:20):
I think I know what you're talking about.
Speaker 2 (32:22):
I think you probably. I think you probably do, you know,
And that's that's pretty high company in my book. So,
but but the rest of the safety class is a
little bit a little bit low. So and again I
think that comes a little bit from the onset of
all these seven on seven leaks all year long. You know,
(32:43):
guys want to touch the ball all the time. They
don't want to they don't want to play safety, they
don't want to play linebacker. You know, Hey, I'll play
corner because I'm not on an island. But you know,
it's it's hard to find those guys now, it just is,
and it's and it's getting harder. So you know, again,
like you said, are there three down linebackers in the NFL?
Not very many. Are the three down linebackers in college? Yeah,
(33:06):
there are, because they're undersized and it don't take on
any blocks, so it's like they're really safeties.
Speaker 1 (33:12):
You know, Drew, why do you think and you know,
you just kind of mentioned that you didn't think it
was very you know, heavy interior defensive lineman. I feel
like last year maybe it was a little bit better,
but the years prior, they just are not that many
defensive tackles coming out anymore.
Speaker 3 (33:28):
I feel like it's been a pretty like position.
Speaker 1 (33:30):
Why do you think we're having trouble getting that position
developed at the college level heading into the pros over
the last five six years?
Speaker 2 (33:38):
I think because again I think the balls out too quick.
I mean, you know it, and it's it's a I mean,
it's a quick offense. It's a you know, some of
the teams are you know, not even just not even
just the air rate piece of it, but just the
hurry up and you know, the tempos. I mean, you
don't see a lot of guys developing as pass rushers
because you know, two seconds and balls out out of
somebody's hand. But now if you can find the body types,
(34:01):
that's what I'm trying to do to at least get
them here, to show that they can pass r USh,
show that they can compete against, you know, the bigger
offensive lineman. So I think the body types are out there.
I just don't think they're getting developed because they don't
get to see five and seven step drops anymore, and
you know, like like they would in the league, and
it's it's hard to develop that.
Speaker 1 (34:22):
So you guys broke it down one hundred and nine
players in the SEC, which is by far the most
of any conference.
Speaker 3 (34:27):
I guess that should not be a surprise.
Speaker 1 (34:30):
But then the Big Ten at sixty eight ACC at
fifty three, I was surprised that those two were so close.
I thought the Big Ten might be a little bit
have a bit little bit more of a spread above
the ACC.
Speaker 2 (34:40):
Well, I think that. I think that you got to
look into the attrition at the classes too, because you know,
Indiana lost a lot of players, Michigan lost a lot
of players, Ohio State lost a lot of players, you know,
and they might have filled those spots with transfer portal
guys that normally used to be the guys that stick
around and stay within system and development, because it used
(35:02):
to be where you kind of counted on your twenty
five coming in signing twenty five. By the end of it,
you were lucky to have fifteen by just pure atrician injury,
you know, academics, you know, guys that couldn't play, you
know once you miss. Now it's down to about nine
nine players out of your twenty five recruiting class, right,
(35:22):
So where are those other kids coming from? Well, they
may not be coming from the same class because you
bringing them the transfer portal. They may be one year guys,
two your guys, three year guys. So, like I said,
that may be a little bit of a misnomer because
that's just the Big ten. This year. I think the
Big ten was higher, a lot higher than that last year.
Oh yeah, because you know, Hoiwo State probably had eight
(35:44):
eight guys on the list if or eight or nine
on the list last year if we'd have been doing it.
So I agree, the SEC has always been this way
and I think it always will be, just because the
population changes, and you know, because industry is less the
Midwest and the Northeast, you know, so you know, where
are you pulling from? Well, Big ten's trying to pull
(36:06):
from Florida. They're trying to pull from Texas now, I mean,
you know, so the whole country and the population dynamics changed.
I think that has a little bit to do with
it too, you know, because put this way, I don't
know if you remember, but Illinois Parochial League in Chicago
used to be big time, I mean big time, and
now it's just pretty pedestrian, to be honest with you,
(36:29):
you know, because people have just moved out of there.
They just moved. So you know, again, I kind of
went a little too far on that one.
Speaker 1 (36:35):
Yeah, everyone's California, Texas, Florida, Georgia. Right, it's pretty much
where your point all your players from.
Speaker 2 (36:39):
Yeah, in Alabama too, Now, Alabama's got a lot too.
Speaker 1 (36:42):
Yeah, absolutely, all right, final question here, and I'll bring
it back to the schools that have represented you on
your list. LSU led they were with fourteen stuff players,
Alabama had thirteen or miss ten all SEC programs. Penn
State again, they kind of ranked as the favorites in
the Big Ten and they were the first Big Ten
team with ten Oklahoma of the Big well, actually they're
(37:03):
they're actually see now too right a Cole Home.
Speaker 3 (37:04):
I I can't keep those teams in these conferences straight.
Speaker 1 (37:06):
They're moving around everyone. So any teams in college football
this year that you're really particularly excited to keep an
eye on, just that that that you're like, all right,
this team I think can really makes some noise with
the expanded playoffs, that that that that you're kind of
pumped up to watch.
Speaker 2 (37:20):
Well, I'm gonna be a homer a little bit, right,
I am, you know, because I lived there for seven years.
But you're catching this one.
Speaker 1 (37:29):
Oh hook them horns, hook them. Yeah.
Speaker 2 (37:32):
Yeah, I think they're gonna be I think they're gonna
put this way. I think that Ohio State game will
be probably one of the best games all year. Yeah,
I really do. I think they're built. I think they're
built the right way, you know, And I am kind
of home earn them a little bit. But you know,
love what Sark's done, Love what you know Brandon Harris
has done. They've done a really really good job of
(37:53):
you know, not making just that roster's you know, one deep,
but they're two and three deep in certain places. You know.
I think George is going to come back, you know,
on a rampage too, I really do. And don't be
surprised now if if Alabama maybe maybe have the best
defense in the country.
Speaker 1 (38:10):
Hey, by the way, I think Clemson is going to
be right there too with their defense. They have so
many don't just on that defense, my goodness.
Speaker 2 (38:16):
Yeah, don't disagree with you. Like I said, there's probably
about probably again twelve to thirteen teams that I think,
you know, have a legitimate chance, you know. And again
I'm just looking at the talent level. And it goes
back to this too. And I'll say this to you
because Penn State, Penn State has done a really good job.
James has done a really good job of retaining his
roster and that's hard, and he's really filled his spots,
(38:40):
like with AJ Harris playing a corner of getting him.
I mean, that was a great getting transfer portal. But
when I was and again when I was a GM,
I did a too deep and I evaluated, you know,
the opponent's two deeps and I did a single line,
did a grade right, And in the Big twelve, as
forty four players, you probably had around eight dudes. Right
(39:05):
that you went, these guys are legitimate NFL guys, right,
And then you do I did Penn State for two years.
We've played in for two years at West Virginia and
out of there, you know, out of there too deep.
I was going like, okay, there's about seventeen players on here.
They play in the NFL. Right, That's that's when it's different.
When you get to that seventeen to fifteen guys their
(39:29):
NFL guys. You should be competing for a playoff spot.
You should.
Speaker 1 (39:34):
No, Absolutely, Drew, I'm going to give you the floor.
People think of the Senior Bowl as a game, but
it is now a three hundred and sixty five d
eight year enterprise.
Speaker 3 (39:43):
You guys have a lot going on.
Speaker 1 (39:45):
Feel free to promote anything you want with your game,
social media, anything you guys have going on.
Speaker 3 (39:50):
Let the folks know what's going on with the Panini
Senior Bowl.
Speaker 2 (39:52):
Yeah, please follow us at the you know, Panina Senior Bowl.
And mine is guys, I'm trying to remember mine because
I just started it. I never had I never had
an X account ever before I came to this job.
Speaker 3 (40:02):
Ever, small man, I envy you, Drew. I wish I
did not have one either.
Speaker 2 (40:08):
It's d fabe SB okay that's my tag or whatever.
You want to call it. But again, this this, this
community has embraced this game like nobody else. And which
All Star game sells out other than this one, not
a one, right, I mean, this has been here for
(40:29):
a long long time and there's a reason why you know,
this place embraces it. And you know, we have social initiatives,
you know, with with the high school leadership pieces. We
give donations you know, to each high school, like five
thousand piece for all their you know, uniform needs. You know,
we do charitable you know, work within the city because
this is seniable charities is really a nonprofit. But the
(40:52):
game is an event I've never been. I'm looking forward
to this because we always used to leave on a
Thursday because we always.
Speaker 1 (40:57):
Came here on Thursday night or Friday morning on the plane.
You're out of that, right, Yeah.
Speaker 2 (41:02):
But everybody the state has raved about it because there's
a parade for the players and Marty Groft parade for
them on a Friday night, right, and then there's a
free concert in Cathedral Square right after that, and then
they say the game's in event. They say it's not
just about just the players, but it's city wide. And again,
how many All Star games sell out. I keep saying
(41:23):
that they don't. I mean, most All Star games can't
even stay in one city for very long because they
find out that they don't support it and that they
don't come. So what I could tell you is, if
you want to watch the best against the best, and
you want to see a lot of draftable players in
one place at one time, right you come to the game,
(41:44):
you ding sure watch it on TV, and you don't
sure watch the practices because we got two networks to
carry the practices. That shows you how important it is
now one network, two networks. So again I don't have
to sell this because again I'm going to use the
John Gruden line that he through out of this Hall
of Fame induction. This is where players come to play,
I mean, bottom line, and again, if you want to
(42:07):
see the best, you come down here. So that's all
I got to say. I don't have to say much.
Speaker 1 (42:12):
Hey look, and you're absolutely right. Look, we've we have
owned draft podcasts. You're at the Giants that that's what
we're doing right now. I love the draft process. I've
become obsessed with it. I've probably been to the Senior
Bowl now eight or nine years and I love the
NFL Combine. It's great, but you don't learn half as
much about these players at that event as you do
with the Senior Bowl because you can actually, you know,
see them play football, which is kind of important when
(42:33):
you're evaluating players, and you know, you can get on
the field, you see them up post, you could talk
to them. It is it is great and I cannot
tell people what a great experience is to kind of
see these guys close up because it's really your last
time to see them before they become pros. And it's
it's a great event.
Speaker 2 (42:49):
And what about it? What about the city, John, I mean,
I didn't know anything about the city because I was
so busy.
Speaker 3 (42:54):
Oh the seafood, Oh my god.
Speaker 2 (42:55):
Yes, I mean you can walk. I've been probably and
again I'm a I've been to probably half of the
places that I should be here and two of my
top ten of all time. And I traveled the entire
country and I'm going like, ookay, I didn't even know
about this because I was so busy. There was practice
and there was interviews and all that. But you know,
(43:16):
if you're coming, I mean, you know, just come for
the game. I mean you ought to just visit Mobile
because it's a heck of a place to be. It's
it's like a it's a kind of New Orleans flavor
to it, doesn't it.
Speaker 1 (43:29):
Oh, it absolutely does well. It is the originata of
Mardi Gras. Right, Yeah, so absolutely one hundred percent. That
was Draft Season, presented by Moodies at Prop Partner The Giants,
Decode Risk, Unlock Opportunity. Learn more of Moodies dot Com. Drew,
it was really good getting to know you. I can't
wait to interact more. Talk to you later in the year,
see you down at the Senior Bowl. Best of luck
this year. Thank you so much for the time, and
(43:50):
enjoy what's going to be a really funny cat at
college football season.
Speaker 2 (43:54):
Yeah, it really will be. Thank you John for having me.
I appreciate you.
Speaker 1 (43:56):
Thanks for joining us in the Hackensack Marine Hell podcast.
You will keep getting better. For Drew, I'm smelk. We'll
see you next time. Everybody
It's now officially open. This is Draft Season presented by Moodies.
I am John Schmelt from the Hackensack Prity Health podcast studio,
Keep getting Better. We welcome in the new executive director
of the Pinnini Senior Bowl. He is Drew Fabianich, longtime
scout for the Dallas Cowboys. Took over for Jim Naggy
(00:24):
who moved on to Oklahoma to kind of run be
the general manager basically of their program down there, and
Drew was taken over down there at the Senior Bowl.
Thank you so much for doing this, Drew, how are
you today?
Speaker 2 (00:36):
Pleasure John, Thank you for having me. It's pleasure to
be here.
Speaker 1 (00:39):
Really. And I know we're always paying to welcome in
cowboy guest here on our Giants podcast, but we have
done it before.
Speaker 3 (00:45):
Brian brought us.
Speaker 1 (00:45):
A former colleague of yours with the Cowboys has been
on many times. And I'm sure it's a little weird
for you talking to some Giants football as a division
rival for a very long time.
Speaker 2 (00:54):
Right, Yeah, a lot of angst on this one though.
I told my wife last night, I said, I'm not
I'm not used to that of Blue. I'm used to
a different kind of blue, you know. But yeah, it's
it's kind of strange. And I'm sure I'm not many
of Cowboy guests that you've had on the Giants network.
You know, we talked earlier. Jerry Reese and I are close,
and you know we had some great, great games through
(01:15):
my time and his time, and you know, went on paper,
the roster was better one way or the other, it
always went the other way in the game. It was strange,
it really was. I mean, when they were better, we
smoked them, and then we were better, we got smoked
by them. So it was. It's been It's been a
great time, great rivalry, and I hope I'm here to
help you guys too.
Speaker 3 (01:34):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (01:34):
Look, last ten years, I've lived through the Giants not
being able to beat Dak Prescott pretty much since he's
got into the league.
Speaker 3 (01:40):
That has not been fun.
Speaker 1 (01:41):
But I go back to that two thousand and seven
Giant team where nobody thought heading into Dallas in that
divisional round, Dallas coming off the buy I think fourteen
and two that year, if I remember right, for the
Cowboys and just a couple of plays and Mario Barber
ran for like what one hundred and thirty yards in
the first half of that game, and Anthony Henry, if
I remember, I missed that little tackle on Amani Tumor
(02:03):
on the app that kind of turned the game. It
has been a very weird, weird rivalry between these two teams.
Speaker 2 (02:09):
And Patrick Crayton dropping a wide open overball yep.
Speaker 1 (02:13):
And then what twenty eleven when Romo overthrew Miles Austin
right in the regular season game in the night game
at the end where I think he lost the ball
in the lights a little bit right where. Yeah, and
without that, the Giants probably don't make the playoffs when
they eventually win the Super Bowl. So it's funny others,
Robory has kind of gone back and forth.
Speaker 2 (02:30):
Yeah, I notice you said super Bowl. I don't have
any of those rings that you have.
Speaker 1 (02:33):
You know, No, I feel you. And now you have
a brand new role though, Drew. So tell me the
difference between scouting for all thirty two teams now versus
being a college scout for an individual team trying to
put together a list in a group of players that
a specific set of coaches might want, versus guys that'll
appeal to the entire league.
Speaker 2 (02:54):
Well, you see, see my role for fourteen out of
those eighteen years. See, I was the national scout. So
this is kind of almost rote memory for me. You know,
I'm going by school, I'm going you know and raiding
those and actually you know, putting grades on them, just
like I did as a national scout. Now I'm blessed,
don't get me wrong, because Jim put together a really
(03:16):
really good staff here. Jack Gilmore's my head operations, and
I've got Michael Newsom as a scouting assistant, and Jackson
Roby's a scouting assistant. When I walked in the door,
there are already two hundred and fifty players on the board.
Now we end up now where's there's close to seven
hundred that are on the board. But we put together
a list of three hundred and there was a purpose
(03:38):
for that. And my purpose was that I thought that,
you know, again, this is the premiere All Star game,
always has been, always will be. And everybody I talked
about this too, and we sent you know, the packages
and everything. They said, you know, this is now just
a big of honor as the invites are now because
(04:00):
it's such a restricted number and you know, you've read things,
I've gotten bashed left and right. You know, it's an
injustice not to have seven more players from such and
such on it. Well, you know what, there was some
Mendoza lines that I set and there were specifics that
I thought of, And just like the junior piece of this,
there's fifty four juniors on there. Right. Well, those juniors
(04:23):
I deemed as guys over top three round you know,
graded players. Well, the head coaches aren't going to get
as mad at me for putting those guys on the list.
Now it's the fourth, fifth, sixth round guys they want
to keep around for a little bit and develop and
hopefully end up being second or third round guys. So
you know, I'm still going to get a little bit
(04:44):
of grief here and there on certain juniors, but you
know they're now eligible and you know they can play
in the game, so I have to include them because
I've got to put a precise number out there. But
to answer your question in a short, short way, this
is just like stacking a vertical board for the draft,
because these were the top three hundred players regardless of position.
(05:06):
That's all it was. That's all it was.
Speaker 3 (05:10):
And you know you talked about it last year.
Speaker 1 (05:11):
I think the list was more than twice the size,
and sometimes you want to include everybody, but it almost
makes the list not useful when there are so many
players on it, you know what I mean? And I
think I think pairing it down here and finding it
what was absolutely the right thing to do. How hard
was it to get the list down the three hundred
and figuring out some of those Mendoza lines you were
(05:33):
talking about.
Speaker 2 (05:34):
Very difficult. We spent four days together as a staff
and we kept going through every school list that we
had already, you know, manufactured by ourselves, and went, okay,
are these guys you know better than these you know?
Because that's what we did. It's just like I told you,
when you're plugging in a vertical board, you go, which
one's better than such and such. Well, we plug it
in and look at them and go, well, these three
(05:55):
are better than those four. Well let's keep these three alive.
These four are going to go down. And again, the
three hundred is not where we're going to necessarily grab
every single player on our one hundred and forty five roster.
You know, guys can surface, guys can play their way
into an invite. We're not saying that it's just off
of the tape last year. These are the top three
(06:15):
hundred players that we identified and graded as the top
three hundred. And yes, it was hard because I've got
a whole sheet of just the red marks of you know,
guys that we pulled down from the three hundred. So
it took a great deal of time. And again, kudos
to kudos to the staff. I mean, really, and have
I seen all three hundred No, I've probably seen about
(06:37):
two fifty to two sixty, you know, And I trusted
the grades. I trusted them, and you know again because
I've had to get my legs about me and do
a lot of other things that I didn't know were
actually involved in this job, if you know what I mean. No,
it's not just it's not just the game, not even close.
Speaker 1 (06:55):
Oh yeah, I mean you're you're the business side of it.
Speaker 3 (06:59):
I can only imagine.
Speaker 1 (07:00):
It reminds me of whenever I talk to the the Unfortunately,
the Giants have had a bunch of new head coaches
over the years, and the guys that were coordinators always say, man,
all the non football stuff I have to do now,
I just wish I was like drawing up plays and
sitting with my guys in a room compared to all
the other stuff that's not football that I have to do.
Speaker 2 (07:18):
Now I had I had the scouting assistance in with me.
Last couple of days, I've been just trying to catch
up on some guys, right and it'd be like, there's
a text alert, there's an email alert, there's another call,
and I'm going like, okay, could people just leave me
alone for just a half hour just so I can
get like four guys done, you know. And it's like
and they go, well, we'll just wait, and I was like,
(07:38):
I appreciate it, guys, because I got to knock this out,
you know, because most of the time I'll push back
what I don't need to do at that very moment,
because again, I'd like to feel more comfortable with the players.
And when I'm more comfortable with them, at least I'm
better I can better communicate about them. Does that make sense?
Speaker 3 (07:57):
Absolutely?
Speaker 1 (07:57):
And look, people should go to Senior Bowl dot com
and see the three hundred. Again, it's a watch list.
It's not an invite list. It is not these are
going to be the best guys at the end of
the year list. It's guys to keep an eye on
as the year goes along.
Speaker 2 (08:10):
True, And here's the one I like to take away.
Don't even use the word watch list because it's just
really the top three hundred and you know, we're going
to plug in later on, we're going to identify other players,
but we watch everybody. It isn't like we're just watching
these guys. So that's why I took that out of
there too. It's not. I mean again, I'm just trying
(08:33):
to give value and prestige to this list. And you know,
and one of the guys called yesterday, one of the Lesons,
and he said, he said, I handed it to the players,
said you realize this is this is an hundred. Just
to get this now, you got to play your way
into the game. So you know, I appreciate them following
suit and actually treat it that way too.
Speaker 1 (08:52):
Absolutely, how much did you lean on I'm sure you
have a million buddies around the league here that you've
scouted with and talked to some of the teams and
what they think about the players in terms of how
you put the list together, or were you solely dependent
on your scouting staff at the Senior.
Speaker 2 (09:08):
Bowl right now solely on ours and now through the fall.
I'm sure there'll be plenty of guys that you know,
that I've been close to for years and years that say, hey,
you know, this guy's playing really really well. It's such
and such. You know, you might want to you might
want to include him on you know, take a peek.
I mean, that's where I'm going to rely on those guys. Plus,
we're going to have ten guys that actually are doing
tapework all over the country that are going to cross
(09:31):
check us, and then we're going to cross check their
work on the players that they're going to look at
during the fall. And now they're going to go to games,
you know, specific games that are valuable to them within
kind of a region because we can't afford to send
you know, guys out on school visits. Now I've been
on some school visits because again I was also going
(09:51):
there to present, you know, to the teams, because the
head coaches want me to say what NFL scouts and
what the Senior Bowl are looking for, and you know,
kind of the landscape of college football because you know,
as a GM for the last three years, so I
kind of know their problems and I can put some
of the solutions out there for them and for the
(10:11):
head coaches, they are like, it's better coming from you
because it's a different voice, and coming from us, they go,
it's just the same old, you know thing they're telling
us time and time again, you know about loving the game,
the character and all that. But then coming from somebody
with as much experience as I have, they kind of go, Okay,
I get it, you know, and it just helps them.
So I can't afford to do that with ten guys
(10:33):
out on the road. We don't have a budget like
the Giants or the Cowboys or whatever. We have a
very limited budget.
Speaker 1 (10:39):
The Draft season is presented by Moody's a proud sponsored
the New York Giants, Decodegress, Unlock Opportunity. Learn more at
moodies dot com. The Transferporter portal Drew is really, you know,
transformed college football. How has that impacted your scouting process?
Can guys slip through the cracks? I know it can
give you sometimes a better look at guys because you
see them in different situations, different systems. How has that
(11:01):
impacted the scouting process and how you guys evaluate these
guys with these guys switching teams all the time.
Speaker 2 (11:06):
Well, I really well First of all, we got to
really keep track of where they're going. It's more of
a house cleaning type of thing, and you know, keeping
track of where they are. But here's the one thing
I can tell John, I think it's actually helped the
NFL as far as and I'd be willing to bet
we have like twenty four players on G five or below, okay,
on the list. Well, being a GM in college for
(11:29):
three years, I was looking at all other divisions. You know,
who are this who's just the statistical leaders? You know,
who are the All Americans? Who are the All conference players?
Do they have measurables? Do they have traits? And then
if I had a need, you know, if they jumped in,
we're going to jump all over them. Well, I think
what they're doing is they're taking those quote as you
(11:52):
know before the Miles Austins of the world, you know
the Division two guys and you know the Division three guys,
they're not there anymore. There are already at Alabama, they're
already at Baylor because they're if they're good enough, they're
gonna transfer up. So there's not there's not that quote
sleeper anymore. And put this, I hated that word years ago,
because you know, if you're good enough, the NFL's gonna
(12:14):
find you. There's no such thing. I mean, you know, yeah,
you're playing in a lower division, maybe you're not getting as
much recognition, but all of a sudden you're leading, you know,
leading the nation in past breakups. Well, the NFL is
gonna take notice of that, and they're gonna find you.
And here's the other thing I'll tell you. Being out
on the road, scouts can't shut up. They can't. They
(12:34):
can't keep a secret. They really can't. I mean, so
it's like, hey, I'm at Gardner Web or you know,
Leonora Ryan or whatever, you know, and you know, you
see a guy and you go, oh, he's he's a
real dude. You're gonna tell two of your buddies, and
those two are gonna tell two more, and those two
are gonna tell three more, you know, And so it's like,
there's no secrets in this anymore. You know, there's guys
(12:57):
that don't play against a very good competition during the year,
and that's why they come here because it's the best
against the best, you know. And the perfect example is
that the same Grabel kid from North Dakota State last year.
I mean the league had him as a top of
the third round player. Well he goes is, he has
a great week, has a great game, and goes eighteenth.
(13:20):
Well on a four year contract, that's twelve point seven
million dollars a difference just in that amount of picks,
you know between that time. So I mean, again, how
valuable Senior Bowl. That's how valuable it is. Yeah, yeah,
we might not. We may not have taken to Marcus
wear at ten if he wouldn't have performed well here.
And he tore it up here, So you know, again
(13:42):
that's that's the value I see in it. And and
again that's why I said it's it's the best of
the best yo.
Speaker 1 (13:49):
Il though, Darius Alexander and there from last year too, right,
this small school Toledo, and he wasn't extremely productive there either, right,
like the sack numbers weren't through the roofs. He wanted
to see how he performed again some of these offensive
line and needed a great job.
Speaker 3 (14:00):
The Giants end up getting them in the third round.
Speaker 1 (14:02):
So absolutely, I think the maybe disappointing is the wrong word, Drew,
but I feel like we're just going to see fewer
of these guys to your previous point, from the you
know group of fives, from the fcs, because these you know,
power schools to your point, they pluck these guys now,
so they'll leave a lot of the times because then, look,
(14:22):
it's not the kids faulty're getting offered all this money.
Speaker 3 (14:24):
I take it too.
Speaker 1 (14:25):
Are we going to see fewer and fewer kids from
the non power schools just because of how the transfer
portal works?
Speaker 2 (14:32):
Yeah, I grew. Yeah, I do believe you're right. And
and again I think that those schools, I mean, I
hate to say it this way, but they're going to
become minor leagues for the for the P four. And
that's just how it did. That's just how it is.
And I think a lot of these coaches know that
they can't afford a high enough revenue year, you know
(14:53):
base to actually even come close to competing. I mean,
they just can't. And it's like, but there were certain
schools that that I recruited against in the portal that
you know, I'd throw an offer out there and all
of a sudden such and such had come in, and
such and such come in. I go, I got I'm done,
because because I knew I couldn't compete, and I knew
(15:14):
if I threw an offer out there, it'd be like, Okay, well,
they're just going to come in one hundred thousand dollars
over top of me anyway, So I'm not going to
get him. And again, I want the kids to get
their fair share. But there's got to be something done,
I mean by Congress, by somebody, and get a commissioner
and do a CBA make them employees, because it's it is.
Speaker 3 (15:37):
Really bad while West right, Oh.
Speaker 2 (15:40):
No, it's it's worse than that. Seriously, it changes every
five minutes. Now, I love that about it because my
job in the league for eighteen years. I mean, it
was kind of a kind of groundhog day. The only
thing to change was the players. But I knew exactly
when I knew exactly. I knew the exact flight that
I was flying Indianapolis on every year for the combine.
I knew exactly the flight I was leaving on. I mean,
(16:01):
I knew exactly what tim of Yarrow was going to
be in the Northeast, you know, saying so, but in college,
I mean it could change tomorrow. I mean, did you
see the ruling in West Virginia academically ineligible players are
going to be able to play now in West Virginia.
Speaker 1 (16:17):
Which is kind of weird because then they're not exactly
academically ineligible.
Speaker 2 (16:20):
Then at the well, and are they really students?
Speaker 3 (16:23):
Right?
Speaker 2 (16:24):
So you see what I'm saying that that's strange to me.
I mean because all I ever worried about was, Okay,
did you get his twelve hours? Do you just twenty
four hours? You know? Is he eligible? Is he going
you know, progress towards graduation? You know? Now, I guess
that doesn't matter.
Speaker 1 (16:39):
It doesn't matter.
Speaker 2 (16:40):
Yeah, So I didn't mean to go off, but college
football is I'm not missing put this way. I am
not missing it right now. I'm not.
Speaker 1 (16:49):
Yeah. I mean, look, I've talked to a couple of
college coaches that have taken you know themotions maybe is
the wrong word, but you know, look at Jeff Hafley, right,
he was a head coach in college footballs to become
a coordinator. I mean, I can just imagine having to
recruit all the kids on your own team every year
and every winter.
Speaker 3 (17:08):
I mean, it's got to be exhausting. I can't imagine.
Speaker 2 (17:11):
John, It's not even that. And again I'll go quickly
through it. June is the worst month of your life
in college football. And everybody goes, what, Yeah, you're going
camps on Monday and Tuesday, right, seven on seven, camps
Thursday and Friday, Wednesday, Thursday. Then you got official visits Friday,
Saturday and Sunday the whole month, the whole month. And
(17:33):
it's like the coaches have no life and you're recruiting
twenty four to seven, three sixty five. They get two
weeks off maybe if they're lucky, right, maybe, and it's like,
you know, and again, what's pleasurable about this? Now they're
gonna be wrong. You're getting paid a lot of money
to do that, but your quality of life is awful.
(17:54):
And what was wrong with the old model of doing
your signing day in February and doing your visits, you know,
in December and January when the season was over with,
Because that's how I did it. But now we ramp
it up and go into the year before and then
you have to hold those kids all the way to
December now, and all they do is go, I'm committed
until somebody else give me a better offer. Yeah, yeah,
(18:16):
I mean I heard it. I heard it today in
the radio, kid goes, yeah, I'm committed Mississippi State, but
I'm going to go to see sex out of the schools.
I'm gonna like, well you're not committed then, yeah, correct, sorry, sorry,
I'm there there. I'm the old guy. Get off my
land right now.
Speaker 3 (18:34):
So hey, look, you lived it. I get it.
Speaker 1 (18:36):
I get the frustration awful real quick. You have twenty
four guys. You have nineteen group of five five FCS
guys on your list. As you went through those guys,
We're not going to get into a ton of ninduwel
players here. Any guys that were like, are particularly really
fun for you from you know, those small school guys
that you're like really excited about seeing up close in
perceval if they happen to play well enough to make
(18:59):
the game.
Speaker 2 (18:59):
And in January, I'm kind of interested in seeing Trey
Lance's brother up in North Dakota State, you know, because
he's got traits and you know, and he's athletic. I mean,
so is Trey you know, you know, and he's not
a lower division if you kind of like the ivy,
like the quarterback of Harvard, I mean, yeah, he's worth
looking at. And he's worth, you know, some recognition. He's
(19:22):
he's he's got the right tools, he's got the right traits,
you know, and guess what smart enough getting the Harvard
That tells me a little some too. So you know
that those are the couple that you know, kind of
intrigued me a little bit. You know. I went to
the Manning camp and there were like forty three quarterbacks there,
which was great for me Archie, and you know, Eli
and Payton were absolutely wonderful to me and just fy
(19:45):
for people out there. Elion and Peyton coached their tail
off down there, even with the little guys. I mean
they're in a group the whole day. I mean, they
do a phenomenal job. I mean kudos. But I got
up close and personal with those guys and it was like, Okay,
I kind of liked this guy a little bit on
(20:06):
tape and then I kind of got to reaffirmed but
I saw in person. But then it was sometimes a
little bit of the opposite too. I was like, hey,
I kind of like this guy on tape, but then
I watched him and I go maybe not. You know.
So it was like it gave me, you know, a
really good picture of what the quarterbacks are and this
year's class I think is better than last year's class.
I really do.
Speaker 1 (20:26):
We mentioned the transfer portal and I else. I feel
like in some ways that's maybe helped the game a
little bit because with guys making the money they are
drew in school, they're less apt to leave earlier, so
you're going to have more players eligible for your.
Speaker 2 (20:43):
Game, right, agree and disagree. I agree with guys may
not leave early, and I think this is the reason
why some of them are getting a little bit more
self aware in some of the quote NIL agents or
if the PA agents or actually representing these guys in college,
they may say, you know, hey, you're really a fifth
(21:05):
rounder and you're going to make more staying in college
right now than you're going to make as a fifth
round pick, you know, in the NFL, and you still
have to make the team. So I think you're going
to get the lower end players, the fifth, sixth, and
seventh round, guys sticking around as long as they can
(21:25):
and going Okay, well, you know, hey, I'm better off
here because I know I'm locked in, i know i'm
going to start, i know I'm going to make money.
Then taking that risk of going, hey, I may not
make that team. So now I agree with the high
level juniors coming out early. Now I don't think they'll stay.
(21:47):
I still think they'll come out, and I mean the
first and second round, first and second round guys. You know,
if you're a third round guy, stay in school, you know,
to get try to become a second round guy, just
because like the top of the the bottom of the
top of the third and top of the second, right
on a four year contract, is a seven pointy eight
million dollar difference, right, So you should you should stay
(22:10):
right now. If you're already a high second, you know, stay,
you know you're already first you know, come on, I
mean I idly mean to stay in the seconds, get
out on the second. If you're a third, stay in,
you know. And here's the thing. I've been offering it
to head coaches that I know really really well. The
advisory's not out there anymore either, so they can call
me and I'll give him a value and say, you know, hey,
(22:33):
he should probably stay or he kind of is what
he is. And that's the other thing. I'll go back
to your question. If that guy is a fifth rounder
this year, he's probably a fifth rounder next year. Right,
So as long as he stays in right and makes
his money, and he walks out of college, let's say
he's got four hundred thousand dollars in his pocket. I
(22:54):
don't know by you, you or me, but I damn
sure didn't have four hundred thousand dollars in my pocket
when I left college in my degree. I mean, good starter,
right there, I mean yeah, so, and again I kind
of bounced around a little bit. But you know, I
agree and I disagree.
Speaker 3 (23:10):
Now, look, I think I think that's fair.
Speaker 1 (23:12):
It's funny you mentioned, you know, guys that ain't gonna
be a fifth round pick will probably be one next year.
And you mentioned the quarterback position too. We have seen
the last couple of years, though. I think Drew, you know,
cam Ward almost came out the year previous, right, and
he probably would have been a Day three pick. Maybe
he ends up balling out.
Speaker 2 (23:27):
I don't, I don't know. I think people were kind
of underestimating that a little bit, okay, I mean just
because again because it was of Washington State. He did
put up really really good numbers and the reason why
Miami paid him what they paid him to bring him
down there, right, he.
Speaker 1 (23:42):
Certainly did help himself in Miami, the same way Jayden
Daniels helped himself in his final year at LSU.
Speaker 2 (23:46):
Right, yeah, And see what I'm getting at is and
again I think the quarterbacks are kind of they're not
an anomaly. But in the league, if you're desperate for
a quarterback, you're going to overpay for a quarterback. Of
course you are, I mean, and that's just the nature
of the beast for him, you know, to say he
was like a third day guy, see, I'd say he
(24:07):
was probably more like a fourth round guy, you know,
right at the top of the fourth, maybe bottom of
the third, because he had starter traits. And you know,
out of these twenty four guys, I think there's eight
that have starter traits that could. Now again, they may
not start day one, you know, because there's not going
to be eight you know, places where you know rookie
(24:28):
quarterbacks are going to come and start in the NFL
just not you know, But to say that, I mean,
there are guys all over the league that have been
starters in the league. The Jukrobi Bersetts, you know, of
the world. They've been starters in different places. You know.
Are they good players, yes? And are they qullet. I
meant Cooper Russia started games, right, I mean, that's what
I'm getting at. There's eight guys I think that are
(24:49):
out of the twenty four that are capable of starting
in the NFL.
Speaker 1 (24:53):
So yeah, So where I was going to go with
that is, do you see guys in this group similar
to the cam Wards, the Jaden Daniels, that could kind
of as a just continue their college career, you know,
blow up and really become all right, well, this guy's
not just you know, a third round guy. Now, he
could you know, challenges as like a top ten pick.
Speaker 2 (25:12):
I do, But I also see guys on there that
I go, you know, they might go back, they might
do just like Garrettnsmeyer did. And I thought that was
a great move by Garrett. I really did, because he
was still growing, he was still developing. I mean, he's
the perfect example of just you know, having some wherewithal
to stay somewhere and develop and learn the game and
(25:34):
kind of grow instead of going like, Okay, well I'm
not playing, I'm out, you know, and I'm gonna go
learn in another system and then oh I may not
you know, I may not play there, and then oh
maybe out again, you know, there's no adversity with the
transfer portal. That's what the NFL doesn't like, and that's
what coaches don't like. As soon as there's any kind
of adversity, it's I'm out, I'm EIGHTI out the gate. Right, Well,
(25:59):
guess what you get to NFL. There's a hell of
a lot of adversity.
Speaker 3 (26:02):
You know, And you can't just leave.
Speaker 2 (26:04):
You can't just leave, that's right. You know you can
get cut, you know, really easily, you know. But again
that's and again I know we're kind of bouncing around
a little bit. But yeah, I see there's there's some
favorites I have in that group. And like we talked
about earlier, this time I have personal relationships already. And
it was because you know where I lived, who I
worked with. I you know, I worked with their dads.
(26:27):
I know their dad. I mean, which is you know,
still kills me, you know, not as bad as last
year though I actually had a I actually had a
kid I was recruiting that I played with his with
his granddad. Oh man, Yeah, that really made me feel bad,
really made me feel old. What I said, Herman, Herman White.
He was like, I was like your dad, Herman White.
(26:47):
He goes, yes, where'd your dad play? And he goes
a Mesa and Colorado. I go, oh, wow, wow, you
know that's like I played with your grand dad.
Speaker 1 (26:56):
Grand It's funny you mentioned that of my I thought
Drew Allers and the guy smart to go back continue
to develop, right, I don't want to rush things, and
I think it's I do think that is a good
thing for some of these quarterbacks because look, obviously both
of us have Parcels connections. Right, he was in Dallas.
I'm sure you've heard a million Parcels isms. And look,
(27:16):
some of the stuff has changed, but we've seen just
having a lot of snaps at that position in college
can be so valuable for being ready to play in
the NFL. And I think I don't mind older quarterback prospects.
It just means I know more about you as a player.
Speaker 3 (27:33):
Fine, stay in school. I'm good with that.
Speaker 2 (27:35):
True. But here's here's the other thing. What if those
snaps weren't pro style snaps.
Speaker 3 (27:40):
That's true too, fair See, it takes.
Speaker 2 (27:42):
You longer to develop when you get to the NFL, then,
because I'd be willing to bet you fifty percent of
the quarterbacks don't identify, don't idea mike, don't change protections right,
and don't have more than three or four kill calls
during a game.
Speaker 3 (27:57):
Now they might not even huddle or go under center
for the mistakes.
Speaker 2 (28:00):
No, no, And I mean and Gruden makes fun of
the clap and you know, being in no huddle and everything,
and I'm kind of with him, you know, because guess what,
you got to adapt our game. But yeah, the parcelanisms
were always you know that, you know, hey, you want
to be a three year starter. You know, you want
to be the captain.
Speaker 3 (28:14):
You know.
Speaker 2 (28:15):
I mean, I got them all, you know, and you've
you've heard them all too. And guess what he developed
those because that's what he found were successful. Yep, you know.
And again it's no different when I was scouting or coaching,
because when you're coaching, you're going to steal everything that
you think is really really good, that that fits within
your system, right, you just stealing. Well, there's no other
(28:36):
difference in personnel. When you get taught a lesson in personnel,
learn from it, you know, because mine was mine was
Vernon Golston right had him as a high pick, right,
but I kept having angst about him and kept going,
there's something really bothers me about him, and and I
won't say this on air or anything like that. But
(28:58):
then he flames out. Okay, two years later, the same
player was coming out of college, same angst that I
had by him, Right, I go, Nope, not gonna fall
for it this time. Didn't have a high grade on him,
and he flamed out too. So it's like, you know,
you just learn different ways. And these quarterbacks, I mean,
(29:19):
you know, it isn't just the answer put up five
thousand yards. It's not. And you're in a spread offense.
I mean, you know some of them are made for that.
I mean how many I mean, how many quarterbacks are
thrown from her five thousand yards of Tennessee over the
last like five years?
Speaker 1 (29:35):
Plenty, all of them, all of them.
Speaker 2 (29:37):
Right, Well, that's a great accomplishment. They're good players. But
does it take a little time to assimilate to the game. Yes,
because now you're gonna have to understand protection. You're gonna
have to change. You know, you have to, iidi the mic,
You're gonna have to You're gonna have to control everything
in the forty five second period. You know you do
and you may have to audible, so it is not easy.
(29:58):
So again, I played a position and I know it's
not easy.
Speaker 3 (30:01):
No, it's very difficult.
Speaker 1 (30:02):
And the Giants are going through that with Jackson darr
right coming from No Miss offense where a lot of
stuff is kind of set up for you, and he's
starting to figure it out and it's gonna take some.
Speaker 3 (30:10):
Time and then and then they're certainly going to be
patient with him.
Speaker 1 (30:13):
All right, let's focus in Drew real quick before we
say goodbye, on on some of the position groups here.
Draft season is presented by Moody's, a prop partner the Giants,
uniting the brightest minds to turn today's risk in tomorrow's opportunities.
Learn more at moodies dot com. Any group, position group
really stick out to you that you think is particularly
strong with this year's draft. I've done some summer scouting Drew,
and I just think it seems like another big person
(30:34):
draft to me, where it's you know, if you're looking
for big guys up front, this is probably gonna be
pretty good draft for you.
Speaker 2 (30:39):
I agree with that. In the offensive line, I think
it's a little lower or a little less In the
defensive line, except for the edge rushers. I think there
are more edge rushers this year.
Speaker 1 (30:49):
And bigger edge rushers too, right, Like a lot of
these like two hundred and eighty pound guys like old
school Bell Belichick edges.
Speaker 2 (30:55):
Yes, So that so I kind of agree and I disagree.
I think the offense will line is probably about the same,
maybe a little bit stronger at tackle, but maybe a
little lesser at center. Right. The quarterbacks, I feel good about.
The running backs. I feel really good about you know,
actually coach against a lot of these guys. It's just
like I know them. The receivers are really really heavy,
(31:20):
like as twos and threes, not in the round two
and three, but I mean as team's two and three.
But there's not a lot of ones, you know. The
safeties are a little light. I think the linebackers are
always going to be light, and I think they've been
light for about six or seven years now. And I
think that's just because seven on seven and spread offenses,
(31:42):
and guys don't want to play linebacker, you know, they
want to play tight end, they want to play h back,
they want to touch the ball or whatever.
Speaker 1 (31:49):
I still think that's one of the most difficult positions
to scout. Going from college to the pros, you're almost
ask them to do completely different things the two levels.
Speaker 2 (31:56):
It is because you're not you're not in a space
game all day long like you're in college, you know,
and you really have to actually take on blocks, which
is is kind of a lost art. Corners are good.
I'll say this then I'm not going to give anything
away because I'm not going to say his name. But
there's a safety that I think could be the next
(32:18):
Dad read.
Speaker 3 (32:20):
I think I know what you're talking about.
Speaker 2 (32:22):
I think you probably. I think you probably do, you know,
And that's that's pretty high company in my book. So,
but but the rest of the safety class is a
little bit a little bit low. So and again I
think that comes a little bit from the onset of
all these seven on seven leaks all year long. You know,
(32:43):
guys want to touch the ball all the time. They
don't want to they don't want to play safety, they
don't want to play linebacker. You know, Hey, I'll play
corner because I'm not on an island. But you know,
it's it's hard to find those guys now, it just is,
and it's and it's getting harder. So you know, again,
like you said, are there three down linebackers in the NFL?
Not very many. Are the three down linebackers in college? Yeah,
(33:06):
there are, because they're undersized and it don't take on
any blocks, so it's like they're really safeties.
Speaker 1 (33:12):
You know, Drew, why do you think and you know,
you just kind of mentioned that you didn't think it
was very you know, heavy interior defensive lineman. I feel
like last year maybe it was a little bit better,
but the years prior, they just are not that many
defensive tackles coming out anymore.
Speaker 3 (33:28):
I feel like it's been a pretty like position.
Speaker 1 (33:30):
Why do you think we're having trouble getting that position
developed at the college level heading into the pros over
the last five six years?
Speaker 2 (33:38):
I think because again I think the balls out too quick.
I mean, you know it, and it's it's a I mean,
it's a quick offense. It's a you know, some of
the teams are you know, not even just not even
just the air rate piece of it, but just the
hurry up and you know, the tempos. I mean, you
don't see a lot of guys developing as pass rushers
because you know, two seconds and balls out out of
somebody's hand. But now if you can find the body types,
(34:01):
that's what I'm trying to do to at least get
them here, to show that they can pass r USh,
show that they can compete against, you know, the bigger
offensive lineman. So I think the body types are out there.
I just don't think they're getting developed because they don't
get to see five and seven step drops anymore, and
you know, like like they would in the league, and
it's it's hard to develop that.
Speaker 1 (34:22):
So you guys broke it down one hundred and nine
players in the SEC, which is by far the most
of any conference.
Speaker 3 (34:27):
I guess that should not be a surprise.
Speaker 1 (34:30):
But then the Big Ten at sixty eight ACC at
fifty three, I was surprised that those two were so close.
I thought the Big Ten might be a little bit
have a bit little bit more of a spread above
the ACC.
Speaker 2 (34:40):
Well, I think that. I think that you got to
look into the attrition at the classes too, because you know,
Indiana lost a lot of players, Michigan lost a lot
of players, Ohio State lost a lot of players, you know,
and they might have filled those spots with transfer portal
guys that normally used to be the guys that stick
around and stay within system and development, because it used
(35:02):
to be where you kind of counted on your twenty
five coming in signing twenty five. By the end of it,
you were lucky to have fifteen by just pure atrician injury,
you know, academics, you know, guys that couldn't play, you
know once you miss. Now it's down to about nine
nine players out of your twenty five recruiting class, right,
(35:22):
So where are those other kids coming from? Well, they
may not be coming from the same class because you
bringing them the transfer portal. They may be one year guys,
two your guys, three year guys. So, like I said,
that may be a little bit of a misnomer because
that's just the Big ten. This year. I think the
Big ten was higher, a lot higher than that last year.
Oh yeah, because you know, Hoiwo State probably had eight
(35:44):
eight guys on the list if or eight or nine
on the list last year if we'd have been doing it.
So I agree, the SEC has always been this way
and I think it always will be, just because the
population changes, and you know, because industry is less the
Midwest and the Northeast, you know, so you know, where
are you pulling from? Well, Big ten's trying to pull
(36:06):
from Florida. They're trying to pull from Texas now, I mean,
you know, so the whole country and the population dynamics changed.
I think that has a little bit to do with
it too, you know, because put this way, I don't
know if you remember, but Illinois Parochial League in Chicago
used to be big time, I mean big time, and
now it's just pretty pedestrian, to be honest with you,
(36:29):
you know, because people have just moved out of there.
They just moved. So you know, again, I kind of
went a little too far on that one.
Speaker 1 (36:35):
Yeah, everyone's California, Texas, Florida, Georgia. Right, it's pretty much
where your point all your players from.
Speaker 2 (36:39):
Yeah, in Alabama too, Now, Alabama's got a lot too.
Speaker 1 (36:42):
Yeah, absolutely, all right, final question here, and I'll bring
it back to the schools that have represented you on
your list. LSU led they were with fourteen stuff players,
Alabama had thirteen or miss ten all SEC programs. Penn
State again, they kind of ranked as the favorites in
the Big Ten and they were the first Big Ten
team with ten Oklahoma of the Big well, actually they're
(37:03):
they're actually see now too right a Cole Home.
Speaker 3 (37:04):
I I can't keep those teams in these conferences straight.
Speaker 1 (37:06):
They're moving around everyone. So any teams in college football
this year that you're really particularly excited to keep an
eye on, just that that that you're like, all right,
this team I think can really makes some noise with
the expanded playoffs, that that that that you're kind of
pumped up to watch.
Speaker 2 (37:20):
Well, I'm gonna be a homer a little bit, right,
I am, you know, because I lived there for seven years.
But you're catching this one.
Speaker 1 (37:29):
Oh hook them horns, hook them. Yeah.
Speaker 2 (37:32):
Yeah, I think they're gonna be I think they're gonna
put this way. I think that Ohio State game will
be probably one of the best games all year. Yeah,
I really do. I think they're built. I think they're
built the right way, you know, And I am kind
of home earn them a little bit. But you know,
love what Sark's done, Love what you know Brandon Harris
has done. They've done a really really good job of
(37:53):
you know, not making just that roster's you know, one deep,
but they're two and three deep in certain places. You know.
I think George is going to come back, you know,
on a rampage too, I really do. And don't be
surprised now if if Alabama maybe maybe have the best
defense in the country.
Speaker 1 (38:10):
Hey, by the way, I think Clemson is going to
be right there too with their defense. They have so
many don't just on that defense, my goodness.
Speaker 2 (38:16):
Yeah, don't disagree with you. Like I said, there's probably
about probably again twelve to thirteen teams that I think,
you know, have a legitimate chance, you know. And again
I'm just looking at the talent level. And it goes
back to this too. And I'll say this to you
because Penn State, Penn State has done a really good job.
James has done a really good job of retaining his
roster and that's hard, and he's really filled his spots,
(38:40):
like with AJ Harris playing a corner of getting him.
I mean, that was a great getting transfer portal. But
when I was and again when I was a GM,
I did a too deep and I evaluated, you know,
the opponent's two deeps and I did a single line,
did a grade right, And in the Big twelve, as
forty four players, you probably had around eight dudes. Right
(39:05):
that you went, these guys are legitimate NFL guys, right,
And then you do I did Penn State for two years.
We've played in for two years at West Virginia and
out of there, you know, out of there too deep.
I was going like, okay, there's about seventeen players on here.
They play in the NFL. Right, That's that's when it's different.
When you get to that seventeen to fifteen guys their
(39:29):
NFL guys. You should be competing for a playoff spot.
You should.
Speaker 1 (39:34):
No, Absolutely, Drew, I'm going to give you the floor.
People think of the Senior Bowl as a game, but
it is now a three hundred and sixty five d
eight year enterprise.
Speaker 3 (39:43):
You guys have a lot going on.
Speaker 1 (39:45):
Feel free to promote anything you want with your game,
social media, anything you guys have going on.
Speaker 3 (39:50):
Let the folks know what's going on with the Panini
Senior Bowl.
Speaker 2 (39:52):
Yeah, please follow us at the you know, Panina Senior Bowl.
And mine is guys, I'm trying to remember mine because
I just started it. I never had I never had
an X account ever before I came to this job.
Speaker 3 (40:02):
Ever, small man, I envy you, Drew. I wish I
did not have one either.
Speaker 2 (40:08):
It's d fabe SB okay that's my tag or whatever.
You want to call it. But again, this this, this
community has embraced this game like nobody else. And which
All Star game sells out other than this one, not
a one, right, I mean, this has been here for
(40:29):
a long long time and there's a reason why you know,
this place embraces it. And you know, we have social initiatives,
you know, with with the high school leadership pieces. We
give donations you know, to each high school, like five
thousand piece for all their you know, uniform needs. You know,
we do charitable you know, work within the city because
this is seniable charities is really a nonprofit. But the
(40:52):
game is an event I've never been. I'm looking forward
to this because we always used to leave on a
Thursday because we always.
Speaker 1 (40:57):
Came here on Thursday night or Friday morning on the plane.
You're out of that, right, Yeah.
Speaker 2 (41:02):
But everybody the state has raved about it because there's
a parade for the players and Marty Groft parade for
them on a Friday night, right, and then there's a
free concert in Cathedral Square right after that, and then
they say the game's in event. They say it's not
just about just the players, but it's city wide. And again,
how many All Star games sell out. I keep saying
(41:23):
that they don't. I mean, most All Star games can't
even stay in one city for very long because they
find out that they don't support it and that they
don't come. So what I could tell you is, if
you want to watch the best against the best, and
you want to see a lot of draftable players in
one place at one time, right you come to the game,
(41:44):
you ding sure watch it on TV, and you don't
sure watch the practices because we got two networks to
carry the practices. That shows you how important it is
now one network, two networks. So again I don't have
to sell this because again I'm going to use the
John Gruden line that he through out of this Hall
of Fame induction. This is where players come to play,
I mean, bottom line, and again, if you want to
(42:07):
see the best, you come down here. So that's all
I got to say. I don't have to say much.
Speaker 1 (42:12):
Hey look, and you're absolutely right. Look, we've we have
owned draft podcasts. You're at the Giants that that's what
we're doing right now. I love the draft process. I've
become obsessed with it. I've probably been to the Senior
Bowl now eight or nine years and I love the
NFL Combine. It's great, but you don't learn half as
much about these players at that event as you do
with the Senior Bowl because you can actually, you know,
see them play football, which is kind of important when
(42:33):
you're evaluating players, and you know, you can get on
the field, you see them up post, you could talk
to them. It is it is great and I cannot
tell people what a great experience is to kind of
see these guys close up because it's really your last
time to see them before they become pros. And it's
it's a great event.
Speaker 2 (42:49):
And what about it? What about the city, John, I mean,
I didn't know anything about the city because I was
so busy.
Speaker 3 (42:54):
Oh the seafood, Oh my god.
Speaker 2 (42:55):
Yes, I mean you can walk. I've been probably and
again I'm a I've been to probably half of the
places that I should be here and two of my
top ten of all time. And I traveled the entire
country and I'm going like, ookay, I didn't even know
about this because I was so busy. There was practice
and there was interviews and all that. But you know,
(43:16):
if you're coming, I mean, you know, just come for
the game. I mean you ought to just visit Mobile
because it's a heck of a place to be. It's
it's like a it's a kind of New Orleans flavor
to it, doesn't it.
Speaker 1 (43:29):
Oh, it absolutely does well. It is the originata of
Mardi Gras. Right, Yeah, so absolutely one hundred percent. That
was Draft Season, presented by Moodies at Prop Partner The Giants,
Decode Risk, Unlock Opportunity. Learn more of Moodies dot Com. Drew,
it was really good getting to know you. I can't
wait to interact more. Talk to you later in the year,
see you down at the Senior Bowl. Best of luck
this year. Thank you so much for the time, and
(43:50):
enjoy what's going to be a really funny cat at
college football season.
Speaker 2 (43:54):
Yeah, it really will be. Thank you John for having me.
I appreciate you.
Speaker 1 (43:56):
Thanks for joining us in the Hackensack Marine Hell podcast.
You will keep getting better. For Drew, I'm smelk. We'll
see you next time. Everybody
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