April 10, 2025 • 41 mins
On this episode of the Giants Huddle podcast, John Schmeelk sits down with Ben Solak, NFL Analyst at ESPN, to discuss his favorite prospects at each position, his quarterback rankings, and NFL trends that could impact draft strategies.
:00 - Giants pick at #3
8:57 - Ben’s All-Tape Team
13:04 - Running backs
16:44 - Wide receivers
19:47 - Tight ends
23:54 - Offensive line
26:16 - Defensive line
31:10 - Linebackers
34:02 - Defensive backs
37:00 - NFL trends
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
It's time to get inside the Giants. Hulet's go, Let's go,
Let's go, Giants. Get out on the Giants Mobul give
me some job. Part of the Giants Podcast Network. Let's Row.
Speaker 2 (00:10):
Welcome to another edition of the Giants Little Podcast, brought
to you by Citizens, the official bank of the New
York Football Giants. I am John Schmelk. Happy to bring
back a front of the program. Been joining us for
a long time. Ben Solak, now of the mothership ESPN. Ben,
what's going on?
Speaker 1 (00:23):
Man?
Speaker 2 (00:24):
What's going on?
Speaker 3 (00:24):
John?
Speaker 4 (00:25):
How we Ben? You're doing well?
Speaker 1 (00:26):
We are doing well, just as same with you.
Speaker 2 (00:29):
Kind of grinding out as many of these prospects as
I can during the season. We're focused on the regular
season and then we kind of have to catch up
a little bit here in the offseason.
Speaker 1 (00:36):
So how many guys have you gotten through?
Speaker 2 (00:38):
And kind of what has your process been for trying
to digest as many of these draft prospects a possible.
Speaker 3 (00:42):
I'll tell you a period of time exactly how many
guys I've gotten through. I have watched one hundred and
seven prospects.
Speaker 1 (00:48):
I think you know, we're actually about it the same thing.
That's pretty good.
Speaker 3 (00:51):
Yeah, Now, and I'll be on the day two draft
show this year for the ESPN, the digital show, the
one that saw that's on the YouTube day one and
day two, and so you got to you feel like
you gotta know everybody's going to go in those first
few days.
Speaker 4 (01:02):
And so that's about where I'm at right now.
Speaker 3 (01:03):
We're definitely getting to this stage where you watch fewer
players you like than players.
Speaker 4 (01:08):
That you don't.
Speaker 3 (01:09):
That's just kind of the nature of this part of
the draft. But yeah, I'm process wise. I came up
just being a film guy, right, I came up in
the draft space in general. And so to me, like,
before I read anything about Land and Jackson, I'm going
to watch them Land and Jackson. You try to get
mostly Gamston twenty four. You get a couple of games
in twenty three, try to watch them different opponents, different offenses,
different defenses, different schemes. You get some film notes down
(01:30):
on the guy. Inherently you have some questions right about Okay,
you know how experience is he? Okay, he was always
playing at the power five level.
Speaker 4 (01:36):
You transfer from somewhere. Then you go, you get your bio,
you get your background.
Speaker 3 (01:39):
You got obviously some of the athletics testing from the combine,
you try to coalesce that into a feel, Okay, what
systems can this guy fit in? What's the ceiling, year one,
year three kind of what can he become? And you
get a round grade from there. It's hard doing all
thirty two teams, right, you take a guy like Land
and Jackson. He works for some teams, he does not
work for others. How do you how do you grade that? Okay,
he's a round too pick for some guys, in a
round six picks for others. It's very difficult, but that's
(02:01):
part of the job, right, Just you know the player
as well, and you don't focus too much on the grade.
You try to focus more on understanding how the player
will win if he wins, and what will be the
limiting factor if he's limited.
Speaker 2 (02:09):
How difficult is it for you to block out some
of what other people are saying about these guys, you know,
because you're getting ready for the Super Bowl, right, you're
doing your film work, you know, doing your you know,
chiefs Eagles work. But all of us, people like me,
out of the playoffs, we're at the Senior Bowl. We're
tweet we're putting stuff out there. By all this guy's,
this guy's that. How tough is it for you to
kind of block all that out so you really go
in with a fresh mind.
Speaker 3 (02:29):
I think it was tough, and then you learn how
to do it right. I think that like when you're
first starting out, you hear what people are saying about
a prospect and you don't want to sit down on
his film and say, well, I see this guy completely
a different way. And then this is like my my
eighth or ninth year doing draft coverage. But by that
point you get comfortable with it, right to the point
where we're right, Like I feel I'm trying to think
of a good example of someone I turned on and
just completely disagreed with with with where people were at. Oh,
(02:53):
like Tyler Warren's a good example where like I put
Tyler Warren film on and Colston Love of Them film
on in I want to say, like early February, and
I was like, oh, love is the title one to
be like clearly like I like Warreny's a good player,
Like Cleveland is clearly better. I feel like at the
time that was not really a thing. Everybody was hyped
up on Tyler Warren. He was going through the culturable Playoff,
he was making those crazy plays. Now to be at
closer to April, I feel like that's much more of
a conversation because some of the hype dies down. But
(03:15):
like you know, you learn how to filter through what
you see on on you know, when you're watching the
college Fable playoff games and you hear from the Senior Bowl,
you learn how to kind of filter that and actually
get back to the film.
Speaker 1 (03:24):
Over years, we're in the hackens Zager Mariny Hell podcast.
Speaker 2 (03:27):
You'll keep getting better, all right, Ben, So, I think
that's a good transition here. Let's talk about this class
in general and specifically at the Giants at three. Should
I be over complicating things more than just whichever guy
is there, cam Ward Abdul Carter or Travis Hunter, just
pick whichever dude has left to three, or should I
be thinking differently?
Speaker 3 (03:44):
I think that's that is the correct approach. I think
that that's the way I would hope the Giants would
take it. I think, you know, even in the world
where it's Abdul Carter and you already have Brian Burns
and cave On Tibdau, it's a great problem to have
to have those three players. I don't think that you.
I think that Tibbdeau has had his moments. I don't
think he's had enough to keep you from drafting a
guy like abdual car and figure out the rotation between
those players. And so to me, that's how it should be.
I'll be interested to see if that's what it actually
(04:05):
ends up being because of the quarterback draw right, always,
when you know you have a Russell Wilson, you have
a Jameis Winston, you got those veteran contracts in place.
But a rookie quarterback and a good quarterback can save
a franchise, can en live en a franchise in a
way that we saw from Washington last season. And that's
always a temptation when your team, like the Giants, who
haven't been the playoffs and quite some time and have
been struggling in the playoffs, when they make it there,
Moving on from Daniel Jones, what if.
Speaker 4 (04:26):
We go when we get that Shador Sanders.
Speaker 3 (04:27):
He's a firebrand, he's a franchise saver, and now all
of a sudden, our team prognostication is totally different. So
that might be a big enough temptation to affect the
logic there at three. But to me, yeah, I'd be
very happy to staying at three and take one of
those three guys.
Speaker 2 (04:38):
So then how should they approach the quarterback Where do
you see Chador in relation to the other guys in
the class. Who are your day two quarterbacks that you
think are worth taking a shot on, based on guys
that maybe could develop into something. How would you approach
the quarterback draft when it comes to the Giants? If
viewer and Joe Shane's shoes, yeah, I don't.
Speaker 3 (04:56):
I think if the name play on the back of
Shador's jersey said something different, I would not talk about
him as a Round one player. I think he'd be
right around where we're talking about Jackson Dart, right about
where we're talking about Tyler Shuck.
Speaker 1 (05:05):
I agree with it.
Speaker 3 (05:06):
Yeah, which you know, Darton Shuck to me are pretty traditional.
This is an interesting developmental quarterback. There's a shot that
this guy's good. Oh we're you know, maybe round two.
But hey, if we trade up a round one, then
we get our fifth year option, right, we get our
ability to kind of you know, get that extra cheap
year of quarterback play. So maybe we move up and
go get the guy I think, especially with the Brown
sitting there at thirty three. Overall, assuming the Brown spend
(05:29):
two on Hunter, which I think is chalk right now.
Oh man, if I wanted a quarterback at the top
of round two, I'd be really willing to get back
to the top round ones. I'd be willing about worried
about Cleveland's going to do with that thirty third pick,
And I don't have a good lean right now on Shock,
Jaln Milroe, Jackson Dart, Who's the guy that Cleveland really wants,
And so I would be willing to trade up to
go get in front of those guys. Of those dudes,
I like Shuck the best in terms of year one impact.
(05:52):
I think that he can be a Jared Golf like
player for you in terms of the play action game
and the big throws in the pocket. He's got the arm,
he's got good mechanic so off play action, he is
not mobile, he deals a lot of injuries, he's not
great against pressure, and he's quite old.
Speaker 4 (06:05):
This is not a perfect prospect.
Speaker 3 (06:06):
And so if they let's say the Giants take Shock
at thirty four, I think Shock will give you a
better offense than he gives Russell Wilson or Jameis Winston,
I absolutely do. By twenty six twenty seven, are you like, oh,
this guy's so clearly good enough that we have like
a contending team every year because of our.
Speaker 4 (06:21):
Rookie contract quarterback. I'm not sure he's that level.
Speaker 3 (06:24):
And so to me, like I don't mind the Giants
spending thirty four in a shock, I think dart is
defensible as well. If it ends up being a shadoor
fall situation and they end up going trading up into
the twenties, there are worlds where that works for you
in the short term.
Speaker 4 (06:34):
I just think the ceiling is pretty low in those.
Speaker 2 (06:36):
Guys, all right, Well, the one guy I think where
the ceiling is not low, but the floor can drop
out on you a little bit.
Speaker 1 (06:41):
As Jalen Morroll.
Speaker 2 (06:42):
You mentioned him in that conversation where if you just
evaluate him as a passer, you know he's a he's
a Day three pick.
Speaker 1 (06:48):
But the athleticism, the arm strength, all that stuff.
Speaker 2 (06:51):
Ben, what are you willing to pull the trigger on
a guy like Milroe knowing at least with Russell Wilson
in the building, he does not have to play this
year as your traditional quarterback. You could create packages for him,
which kind of gets me excited because he's a four
to four to two hundred and twenty pound athlete, which is,
you know you can use him in fun ways.
Speaker 1 (07:06):
When would you be willing to pull the trigger on
the row.
Speaker 3 (07:08):
Yeah, So I would actually push back on the low
floor construction because whenever we talk about mobile quarterbacks we
often do that where you.
Speaker 1 (07:14):
Say, you're right, I should say low floor is a passer.
I should right correct that.
Speaker 3 (07:19):
You know, I know, I know where your head's at.
I think it's an important construct. I remember talking about
it with Justin Fields with anthrow bridge and all these
guys who came out and you say, a right, Ben,
those guys didn't work out.
Speaker 4 (07:27):
You're right, they didn't work out.
Speaker 3 (07:28):
But because the mobility is so good and you can
all right in the design run game. But also they
avoid sacks, right, they convert on third and alongs with
their legs. If you go and you look at the
most valuable individual plays from like an NPA per play
perspective that an offense can have, quarterbacks scrambles are are
typically the most valuable potential play because of how often
(07:49):
those end in first downs.
Speaker 4 (07:50):
They had touchdowns. They eliminate sacks as well.
Speaker 3 (07:52):
They remove negative plays where pocket passes would take a
sack or throw a contested ball to the wiping the interception.
Mobile quarterbacks can can go and scramble. And so there
are worlds I can get to in my head where
Jalen Milroe has to start for whatever team, Giants, Steelers,
any team in like week six because somebody goes down
and the offense just works because he's so freaking fast.
He's not just like Mo, but he is so freaking fast.
(08:13):
And so I'm very interested in Milroe a as a
Day two pick. Now, that high floor construction I just
presented for Milroe is a band aid construction. It is
a stop gapcuse nothing in my offense is working. So
let's just let the athlete be the athlete to play
eleven on eleven and will beat the teams that don't
know how to deal with it. You need Milroe to
improve as a passer, and then improve again, and then
improve again to get to a point where it's like,
(08:33):
all right, this is actually a legitimate, you know, dual
threat quarterback. I think he is remarkably less advanced, measurably
less advanced than Richardson was coming out as a pure
passer than Justin Fields was coming out as a pure passer.
A lot more reps in both of those films of
those guys just standing in the pocket, reading things out
and throwing. At the college level, Milroe will just sit
there waiting for pressure because he just wants to get
(08:56):
out of pocket. He has no interest in kind of
playing the game from the pocket, and so to me,
there's a lot of stride there. But man, you can't
teach four four two twenty five.
Speaker 4 (09:04):
You can't do it. And it's very very handy when
you have it. So I'd be interested in him on
day two.
Speaker 1 (09:08):
Yeah, me too.
Speaker 2 (09:08):
I'm with you, all right, let's go to the all
tape team that you had up on ESPN, I think
last week, and you already talked to one of the
guys that the quarterback, Tyler Shuck. And I've tried to
like Red pell myself over the fact that he's twenty
six and he's been injured a lot, because I'm with you.
Speaker 1 (09:21):
His tape's fun, man, different arm angles, arm strength.
Speaker 2 (09:25):
He actually played in an offense that kind of looks
like an NFL offense.
Speaker 1 (09:29):
I'm like some of these other guys, which you know.
Speaker 2 (09:31):
And I think the point you made in there that
I thought was interesting is that of all the guys,
even more so than the Dart, in my opinion, you
could expect him to come in and contribute right away
based on what we've seen him doing college.
Speaker 3 (09:40):
Yeah, and and I am hesitant on older quarterbacks in general.
I was worried about bone next to this reason, worried
by Kenny Pickett for that reason. Shuck is a little
bit different because he suffered so many injuries, right, So,
like you know, bo Nex was like a five year starter.
He had so much experience versus Shuck where it's like, hey,
like you know, you actually like missed some time. And
that's that's why I hung around for a little bit long.
(10:00):
I do think that the injury background on the twenty
six years old it's something to be concerned about when
you start talking about, all right, if I have to
sign this guy to a second contract or Okay, it's
the film kind of lying to me because he's just
so much more mature than his opponents right now, for
a team like the Giants, like you just need a
good quarterback, like those problems are a little bit like,
you know, first world problems that the Giants are not
yet equipped to deal with, just given the way that that
(10:22):
quarterback has been such a limiting factor on this team
for the last few years. And so to me, if
you like Shuck's film, you have those wordy warths in
the back of your head, but you say, listen, like,
if we can just elevate the quarterback play here and
actually get you know, what we expect to get out
of Elik Neighbors and kind of if this defense is
what we expect this defense to be and we can
you know, just win games twenty one seventeen, like, then
I'll let the twenty twenty nine problem of paying Tyler
(10:43):
Shock when he's thirty years old, I'll let that be
the twenty twenty nine problem. I just kind of want
to solve the twenty six problem right now.
Speaker 2 (10:47):
Let me give you one more question on Shador because
I've heard this and I'm looking I'm gonna Dan brug
Laran tomorrow. I'm looking forward to asking him this question too.
People say he's accurate.
Speaker 1 (10:56):
I agree. People say he's tough. I agree. The one
thing I think about a little bit harder.
Speaker 2 (11:00):
They say he's a great processor, and he makes quick decisions.
Then I look at the fact that he was literally
bottom ten in all of college football last year in
terms of average time to throw when you take the
screens out and he passes beyond the line of scrimmage,
and that is not an advanced offense where there's a
ton of screens. There's only one a few different concepts.
I'm not sure I see the processing part of it.
(11:22):
You watch a lot more tape than I do. I'm
curious what your take is on Shador the processor and
how quickly he gets through things.
Speaker 3 (11:29):
I do not think Schador is a remarkable processor. I
think he's I think he's a fine college processor. I
think he makes good decisions with the ball in his hands,
and think that like you would not go like, oh,
low processing speed. That's something I would say about Jamn Mirroll.
I would say about Jackson Dart as well. It's not
something gonna say about Shudoor. It's it's perfectly fine, it
works for you. What Chudor does very well, which I
think gets mistaken for processing being is she Door is
a very good risk manager. Right chod Or well will
(11:51):
look at a throw and say open, maybe not don't
want to drive it. Let me go somewhere else, right
like he uh should or he will hold the wall
for a long time and he will gramble around, He'll
take pression'll take sacks and he won't get away with
that as well.
Speaker 4 (12:03):
At the NFL level, at quite a high sack rate.
Speaker 3 (12:05):
In college a eight point one percent, I want to
say it was, and that's that's gonna have to uh
uh be hand handled at the NFL level. But from
an interceptible pass perspective, from a okay, you know, is
there enough juice? Is there enough meat on this downfield throw?
Is it worth risking to the play and the ball
to get thirty five yards? He manages risk very very well.
Would you like in a pocket passer who's just a
(12:25):
point guard?
Speaker 4 (12:26):
Right?
Speaker 3 (12:26):
He does not take dumb shots, but he will take
a shot when it's open. Right, you have a you
have a guy Will Howard of Ohios orsume me Riley
Leonard at an ore dame who Ryle Leonard just does
not take shots. Riley, it is open, we got to
push the ball. He just doesn't want to do it.
Will take the shots in there and I'll pass on.
He doesn't need to take them. So the risk management
is very good, but I think that can get conflated
with processing speed.
Speaker 4 (12:46):
I think it's just a fine processoruddle up, get in here.
Speaker 1 (12:48):
If you're lined up here, you gotta go over the
middle with at the score great.
Speaker 3 (12:53):
How do we make that happen?
Speaker 4 (12:54):
I don't know.
Speaker 3 (12:55):
Bud Citizen does makes sense of your money with citizens
Official Bank of Eli Manning.
Speaker 1 (13:02):
Yeah, I think I agree.
Speaker 2 (13:03):
Good processor, not all he's not Joe Burrow, right, let's
put him in the Joe level level processing, but really
good decision maker in terms of making trying to live
at mistakes.
Speaker 1 (13:12):
I'm with you. I think that's a great way to
to kind of posit that.
Speaker 2 (13:15):
All right, let's go to running back and you bring
up a guy in your story that I'm happy you
did because not a lot of people talk about him
because he doesn't do anything that spectacular. You know, his
athletic testing isn't spectaculary. Watch him on tape. It's boring,
but damn it's good. And that's Devin Neil out of Kansas.
Why are you such a big fan?
Speaker 1 (13:31):
Yeah?
Speaker 3 (13:31):
I like backs who do what they're told, like facts
who behave right. A lot of these college backs fancy themselves.
You know, a cross between Larry Johnson and Saquon Barklan.
She's like, man, you know, Devin Neil gets exactly what's blocked.
He will get more than what's blocked because he's good
behind the line of scrimmage. She will set up double teams,
will be patient.
Speaker 4 (13:48):
We needs to be patient. Fast, We needs to be fast.
Speaker 3 (13:50):
You know, this is a really impressive draft for tackle
breakers and contact balance. You have guys in obviously Action Gentino,
mari and Hampton the top of the class, but Damian
Martine Martinez out of Miami and Cam scattabout Arizona State.
You have some guys who are like ninetieth percentile contact
bounced tackle breakers, very tough class. And so Devin Neil,
who's like eighty fifth never gets talked about in this
(14:11):
Area's a little bit smaller. He's just he's just not
like elite elite, But he said, he's a wonderful contact
bounce regularly sheds the first tackler he can get through
the trees, right, you get those arm tackles from nose
guards and deep with the tackles and survive it. He
doesn't have the home run speed, but he's mighty quick,
he's very bouncy, he's got very smart feet. Devin Neil
is extremely similar to Ashton Genty in terms of play style.
(14:32):
Is just you know, knock a letter grade off in
kind of every single trait. Right He's a B where
Gent he's an A in a lot of areas. And
so I'm a team that has a lot of uncertainty
at running back. I don't know who I want to
give volume to, and I would like to get a
back that I know I can trust to give fifteen
eighteen carries to. Not going to hit the Sacle and
Barkley home runs for me, not going to have Alvin
Kamara six yard six reception games for me, but it's
(14:52):
just going to keep my offense on schedule. I think
Neil is the best option on day three. So take
the Raiders at six. Oh, they've been paired to ash
Genty all year. If they go corner at six, they
trade out of six and they don't get Gent. There's
no one in that backfield right now you trust to
take volume. Come around, Take take Devin Neil round four
and just give it first rookie contract, give him fifteen
carries a game and he will keep you on schedule,
(15:12):
so very trustworthy player.
Speaker 2 (15:14):
Do you love this running back class as much as
I do? I've I think I've gone through fifteen running
backs and I feel like there's stole another half.
Speaker 1 (15:19):
Doesn't I need to watch that? I think?
Speaker 2 (15:21):
Or then when I've seen little bits and pieces, I
think are pretty good. And who are some of the
guys that are kind of your pet cats out of
the group that you love?
Speaker 3 (15:27):
Yes, I was on with Mena on her show yesterday
and we talked about this class and we realized that
it's probably the best class since twenty seventeen. Had thirty
players selected in twenty seventeen day at running back. This
was the Leonard Fournette, Christian McCaffrey, Dalvin Cook, Joe Mix
and Alvin Kamara, Kareem Hunt, James Connor, Aaron Jones year right,
like just like filthy good, Right, this is probably the
(15:49):
best class since then. I brought up Damian Martinez out
of Miami, big fan of his Big Bruiser two sixteen
two twenty sweet feet. Romandre Stevenson is a guy. He
reminds me of a little bit Baseial Twoton, the speed
str out of Virginia Tech. Every year there's kind of
one of these, you know, plug and play wide zone
home run hitting backs. He's the one this year. He's
got fumble problems, Man, you can clean those up. And
(16:09):
I bet you he's a little bit better as a
pass catcher than you saw from Virginia tax because they
never used him like that.
Speaker 2 (16:13):
I think he's also top ten to fifteen percent in
the in the breaking breaking tackles category two. He's one
of those other guys in high in those metrics.
Speaker 3 (16:19):
Yeah, and he he The thing is, he's very, very
smooth and son.
Speaker 4 (16:22):
He can kind of like glide through a lot.
Speaker 3 (16:24):
Of arm tackles and everything like that. He's not small either.
He's over He's over two hundred pounds. So I find
him very likable. I'm a big quinch on Judkins guy
on on day two. Same thing with Devin Neil, right,
Like Trayvon Henderson was the home run hitter for Ohio State,
but Johnkins just kept the offense on schedule because the
short yardage guy. Their third down guys very reliable. So
big fan of his as well. There's a lot of
guys to.
Speaker 2 (16:42):
Like I'm with you, all right, let's go to wide
receiver not a great class at the top right.
Speaker 1 (16:46):
And I think this is kind of a common theme.
Speaker 2 (16:48):
And you said this when you were on with on
the Athletic Football Show with Robert Razy the other day.
This is not a draft where you want a premium pick.
Though I think picking the top three is okay because
you have a chance to get either a Hunter or
Carter right, but you get picking four to eleven, you're
kind of not getting the top ten player in any
other draft class. And I think wide receivers similar. I'm
a big tech McMillan guy. I like to get your
take on him. But I think day two, if you
(17:09):
look at for like a number two or number three
wide receiver, there are a lot of guys on Day
two and early Day three that are going to be
able to fill those roles for you.
Speaker 3 (17:17):
No, I very much agree. I think that there's no
such thing as a bad receiver class. I don't think
it exists because they're just like fifteen twenty years ago,
colleges couldn't throw the ball. We have to remember this,
like they weren't good enough quarterbacks, the schemes weren't good,
like there were many many offenses like the Alabama national champions.
Speaker 4 (17:31):
They just never threw it right. They had like Alvin
Ridley and and Maari Cooper.
Speaker 3 (17:35):
You're not throwing the ball now with RPOs, with quarterback
development seven on seven in high school, so many more
teams throw the ball.
Speaker 4 (17:41):
You have three receivers on the field. I ever given play.
Speaker 3 (17:43):
There's so many different body types of athletes styles that
work at that position that you're just never going to
have a class that's devoid of talent.
Speaker 4 (17:48):
Sure it's not.
Speaker 3 (17:50):
Romandunzi Laku Neighbors and Marvin Harrison Junior, but it's still
I think a very dense class, a lot of starting
caliber options.
Speaker 4 (17:56):
I agree.
Speaker 2 (17:57):
And the guy that you bring up in your All
Film Team on ESPN dot Com story is Jack bash
At a TCU boy. Just watching the quarterback play at
TCU can can give you a little bit of a
headache trying to watch good targets like Stevian Williams and him.
But what struck me about him and you talk about
his transitioning from a receiver to a runner, I just
think what he does at the top of the rout
(18:17):
tree is really really good. Like his ability at his
size and weight to change direction at the top of
the routree to go break wherever he's breaking, and I
think we saw that in his in his three cone
and a short shuttle with the combine. I just think
he's very sharp as a rout runner, knows how to
get open, and that dude does not drop anything.
Speaker 3 (18:33):
Yeah, Jack Bash is gonna be a good pro for
a very very long time because he is He is
exactly what a quarterback wants that player to be. He
will block, and he'll block his butt off when he
needs to. You said, he will catch everything. He will
erase inaccuracy. He will make difficult catches over the middle
of the field through contact.
Speaker 4 (18:50):
So when I have to throw a.
Speaker 3 (18:52):
Glance to a slant to and you have to go
get it for me on third down, he will go
get it for you. And then the moment he becomes
a runner, he is out to kill the I mean
he is so physical, he is so tough. He carries
big guys for extra three yards. He was really good
Like short yard it's a goal line for them. Just
because of how tough he is. Your quarterback is going
to love throwing the football to Jack Bash. That is
(19:12):
just going to keep you around forever. And then if
he is enough of an athlete because he didn't run
a forty and like the long speed is a question.
He's quicker than he is explosive, which is like Cooper
Cupp is that way too compat the great agility tests,
bad jumps, and Besh's built that exact same way. If
he can be enough of an NFL athlete to break
the first angle and get and get a little bit
loose in the open field, he's.
Speaker 4 (19:32):
Got a ten year career.
Speaker 3 (19:34):
Not as the wide receiver one best, the wide receiver
two who just eats eats, eats volume and just just
always reliable for the team.
Speaker 4 (19:39):
I think that's just gonna be a long, long time. Bro.
Speaker 2 (19:41):
Can the league just get together and not let Sean
McVay draft this guy, because I think he would just
love having this guy in his roster.
Speaker 4 (19:47):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (19:48):
I mean, like I keep looking at the Texans, and
then I look at the Dolphins, and I look at
the Packers Dolphins if they move on from Tyree Kill.
But those three teams in the second round where I
say there's a lot of room for a Jack Best
to be very valuable for this team.
Speaker 2 (19:59):
One hundred percent agree with all Right, let's go to
tight ends. You've been on Mitchell Evans. So I think
it's interesting because I think you see as his upside
as a true y right, as a guy that can
block a little bit. And my understanding that he dealt
with a lot of injuries this year and he's probably
a better athlete than what he showed on tape in
another really good tight end class.
Speaker 1 (20:15):
Why did the tape of Evans jump out to you?
Speaker 3 (20:17):
Yeah, So Evan's had a late ACL tear in the
twenty twenty three season where he was really really dominant.
He's having some some big games for Notre Dame with
not great quarterback play, and so that late tair means
that you either have to miss some time at the
start of the twenty four season or you have to
rehab really fast and come back really fast. And Notre
Dame had playoff aspirations, the championship aspirations. So he came
back and he played Week one and just like you
(20:37):
put you put on the early you know, week one
week two film, you're like, oh my god, Like this
guy's running at like seventy percent. He just is not
finished with rehab at all, and and but he's trying
to stay it at playing weight, and he's you know,
he's competing in games, and so like the rehabit slows
down and just the over the course of the year,
he's getting a little bit faster and getting a little
bit looser. He's missing fewer snaps. But in general, like
it just was, it was clearly not the athlete he
(20:59):
wasn't twenty three. So if you can get me twenty
twenty three, Mitch Levens, because after another season, another offseason,
he's fully healthy, then right, I have a guy who's
who can play two fifty two hundred and fifty five pounds,
who catches reliably over the middle of the field, can
make some tough catches up the scene and down the field,
blocks very very well in line, blocks well in space.
He's just a well rounded tight end. He's very col Cometish, right,
remember Cole Comet coming out of Notre Dame. You know,
(21:21):
big surprise, but he's very col Commetish and that there's
there's no big weakness to his game, there's no big
zip to his game. Oh incredible, whatever. But Comett was
a top fifty pick and then went on to become
like a top ten, top twelve court contract at tight
end when he signed his deal. If I get Evans
and that two rounds later with injury risk reminds me
of like the Eagles taking Josh Sweat, Right, It's just like, hey,
you know, we're gonna roll the dice on Lesson. If
he pounds out for us, he pans out for US,
(21:42):
loan and behold. Sometimes those injury guys do.
Speaker 2 (21:44):
So that's why, like Evans, you mentioned the Warren Loveland
thing at the top. Very briefly, I think the thing
about ty Warren that gets people. You see the way
he runs, and you're like, well, that guy has to
be a good blocker. And I think you see how
he approaches blocking, and he approaches it like a guy
who's going to be a really good blocker. But then
you see him actually try to block guys, and a
(22:05):
lot of times the results aren't what you think they
should be based on his body type and how he plays.
Speaker 3 (22:11):
Thirty one and a half in charms for Tyler Warren
measured at the NFL Combine, and so all those measurements
are bad this year, like they're all too short. He
didn't go, he didn't measure at all of his pro day,
and so we didn't get an update of pro Day.
So imagine his arms are somewhere around thirty two inches.
But if you look at the guy, he just looks
a little bit shorter in the arms.
Speaker 4 (22:25):
And then when you watch him block, he falls off
of blocks because he doesn't have great length, and that's
going to be a limiting factor for you in your ability. Right,
he comes into contact good, I agree with you, he
has the want to, I agree with you, and then
he goes to get his hooks in.
Speaker 3 (22:37):
Lock out and engage Ryan get to that point of
control and he just reaches his maximum point. And so
when he plays against bigger bodies that there's a big
limiting factor there. And so I think he's much better
for like blocking in space, which is how you saw
Penn State try to use him right, kind of stock
blocking and on these screens, and I think you know
he's even though he's got that tough guy moniker and
he's two hundred and fifty five pounds in the NFL,
(22:57):
is going to be a move tight ends. He's so
good after the catch with the ball in his hands,
So you're gonna see him used that way kind of
a more so a guy who's detached from the line
of scrimmage, which is a totally fine, acceptable usage.
Speaker 4 (23:06):
You can draft the guy in the first.
Speaker 3 (23:07):
Round, but it's worth noting like for some teams what
they want from their tight end. Warren has pretty dramatic
limiting factors at leveland dozens. That's that's where I landed
on the guys.
Speaker 2 (23:16):
Any other second day tight end that you really think
stands out a month, what's a pretty deep group.
Speaker 3 (23:21):
Great tight end class. I like Mason Taylor out of
elis you a lot. I like Terrence Ferguson, the young
man out of Oregon quite a bit as well. Gunner
Helm out of Texas is the guy that I think
has the best like kind of blocking upside. He has
a lot of want to, He has a lot of
no how he the text would leave him isolated against
edges and he would fight man. He would He would
get a sustained to two and a half seconds before
(23:41):
he lost, which is very impressive for a college tight end.
Speaker 4 (23:43):
He has some technique problems, right, He wastepends.
Speaker 3 (23:45):
He leans on guys and you can get snatched if
you clean that up like this is like a I
remember how good Dallas Goddard got blocking it tight end
over the coming out of South Dakota State, became a
real impactful player for the Eagles again over his time. Though,
to me, Gunner Helms is that guy who if if
you're talking to me, like if like a three down
tight end who really leaves out. Gunner helm is my guy.
But Ferguson and Taylor as well, all three of them.
It's a very likable tight end class.
Speaker 2 (24:06):
I'm with you one hundred percent. All right, let's go
to the offensive one here, Willie Lampkin. I'm gonna call
it little Willie Lampkin, even though he's not really little
compared to us, but for other offensive lineman, he's little,
and he was really good at the Senior Bowl. He's
the guy that maybe the measurables don't fit, but man,
you're right, his tape is great.
Speaker 3 (24:20):
Yeah, he's five five foot eleven, which is just he's
like five to eleven, probably played like two seventy five.
It is a completely unacceptable NFL size. But what if
it wasn't What.
Speaker 4 (24:31):
If it isn't right? What if he's the exception that
proves the rule.
Speaker 3 (24:33):
In his time at Coast to Carolina, he played he
played at tackle he played a guard. He played at center.
He goes to you and see he plays at guard.
He's gonna have to be a center at the NFL level.
But we have a guy with positional versatility. We have
a guy who's who's already at the college level a
disproportionately good pass blocker for his size. Right, he has
that natural leverage. He fights to a lot of neutrals.
He can he can drop the anchor relatively well. And
so I if you're talking to me about a late
(24:55):
day through pick of UDFA, that's what he's gonna be. Yeah,
I'll give him a shot to come in and be
my second from his own team. See if it works,
and if it doesn't, I'll patrick ricard him. I'll find
six offensive line packages which are increasingly becoming common in
the NFL. Right, I can you know attachment line of scrimmage,
tend him in motion, put him in the backfield, kind
of use him as a super sized fullback. So he
is a interesting player. I think the size does preclude
him from like having legitimate NFL success, but it should
(25:18):
have precluded him for having legitimate ACC success. And he
won the award for the best Offensive Alignment in the
conference and so who knows.
Speaker 4 (25:24):
Man, give him a shot.
Speaker 2 (25:25):
Now, I'm with you, and in this offensive line class
in general, I would love for the Giants for drafts
and offensive tackle here and starting in round two, can't
find one.
Speaker 1 (25:32):
I gonna be honest with you. You know, maybe ariante
Ursery from Minnesota. Maybe is my only day too offensive tackle.
All these other offensive tackles to me are moving into guard.
Speaker 2 (25:41):
So if you want to find a guard that I
think you could find one on day two. But I
don't think you'll find the many tackles here.
Speaker 4 (25:45):
Man, did you watch did you watch though William and
Mary Kay? Charles Grant?
Speaker 1 (25:49):
I have not watched Charles Grant yet. No, watch you
some Charles Grant.
Speaker 3 (25:52):
Then get back to me on all these tackles have
to become guards because I think he can stay and
he can hang.
Speaker 2 (25:56):
Okay, yeah, that's the one guy. I'm not watched it.
I've heard good things he's on.
Speaker 3 (26:00):
It's not a lot of film out there on it,
but you can find a couple of games and yeah,
it's it's I expect him to go round too, and
I expect him to be the developmental tackle of choice
because I agree it's him, and then Boston College Ozzie
Trapeo pill yeh, yeah, who gets talked about a staying
at tackle. I think Trapeo is fine more Round three
for me, Grant is the.
Speaker 4 (26:14):
One I have to be interested in. Round two.
Speaker 1 (26:16):
Yeah, I agree.
Speaker 2 (26:16):
I watched your pillow the Senior Bowl and he was
He started rough first day, but he ended up doing
much better the next couple of days. Really nice size
with him over there. I think he's more of a
right tackle than the left tackle too. Agreed with with
the way he plays.
Speaker 1 (26:27):
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of crunch time football, I'm your man.
Speaker 3 (26:31):
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you should talk to Citizens.
Speaker 4 (26:35):
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Speaker 1 (26:36):
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Speaker 2 (26:41):
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Speaker 1 (26:54):
All Right.
Speaker 2 (26:55):
We're joined by Ben Solak from ESPN all right, Ben,
let's go to the defensive side of the ball. I've
bet fans yell at me for trying to give them
tyleegue Williams to pick thirty four of role because he
dosn't rush the passer. And I said, guys, this might
be the safest player in the draft because he is
just a dominant run stuffer. And if I wind up
with like a Dalvin Tomlinson plus with my thirty fourth
overall pick, what's wrong with that?
Speaker 4 (27:14):
Yeah?
Speaker 3 (27:15):
And that's that's I think that's about what you're getting
as a Dalvin Thomlinson plus. I think he also can
be a better pass rusher in the NFL than he
was in college.
Speaker 4 (27:22):
If you watch those Ohio.
Speaker 3 (27:23):
State that entire defensive line, Jack Sawyer, j T. Twomloile,
it's very clear that the coaching point was play the run,
play the run, play the run, and play the run,
and then if we get pass, yeah, you can go
kind of collapse and like you know, suffocate the pocket.
But they were not attempting to be a high sack,
high pressure, upfield penetrate team. Everybody along that line was
controller gaps, controller space will solve problems on the back end,
and so Williams is every physical trait of a guy
(27:45):
who can be like a four or five sack player
from defensive tackle.
Speaker 4 (27:48):
That's typically pretty good.
Speaker 3 (27:49):
Giants fans are spoiled with extra Lawrence, the best pass
rushing nos tackle the world has ever seen.
Speaker 4 (27:54):
But like that, he has that ceiling. That's a fine ceiling.
Speaker 3 (27:56):
So I agree. I like him as an early round
two pick. I think he's worth that for the Giants.
When you have Lawrence in place, I would want to
prioritize pass rush over run stuffing at the defensive line.
But if they were to make the pick, I'd be
very quickly like, oh heck, yeah, but let's just never
get run on again. It's a fun duo for sure.
Speaker 1 (28:12):
Yeah, which they've had trouble stopping for the last like
three or four years. It's been bad.
Speaker 2 (28:16):
So I guess what I like about the defensive tackle
class band. It is also deep, and I think you
do have a number of guys that can play both roles. Right,
you're upfield three technique, whether it's the Sanders kid out
of South Carolina, you could talk about Omore Norman, lot
guys like that, and then you have your run stuffers
we talked about Tylie Williams. You could talk about Caldwell
guys like that, so you would prioritize pass rush first.
Who are maybe some of the guys you like a
(28:37):
little bit later, maybe one one stuffer and one guy
that can get a field a little bit.
Speaker 3 (28:41):
I like Darius Alexander out of Toledo for your for
your pass rush, and I think that there's he's a
late bloomer and he's an older prospect to Okay, you
walk in a little bit concerned, and then you see
what the background was and kind of how he came
to Toledo and they talked.
Speaker 4 (28:52):
They've talked a lot about Hey, like.
Speaker 3 (28:53):
When he was first here and like the first couple
of years he shouldn't have his head screwed on straight,
like he did not take this as seriously.
Speaker 4 (28:58):
As maybe he'd wanted to. And then the light bulbs
are to go on to what he was capable of it.
Speaker 3 (29:01):
You say, Okay, I now understand why this guy has
had the arc that he does. It's a little bit
more explicable to me. And so I like Alexander as
as your upfield guy. And then you said another more
of a stuffing. Yeah, uh, broughtman out of Texas.
Speaker 1 (29:15):
I like.
Speaker 3 (29:16):
I think Alfred Collins gets a little bit more of
the the hype and the push. But Brown's everything you
want for a rotational defensive lineman. He's a B minus
C plus player. Everywhere is a high effort. He's got
a lot of pop in his hands. So he's more
of like a round three, round four guy that I
would take.
Speaker 2 (29:29):
All right, let's go to Ashton Jewatt. He's your tape
guy at defensive end. He's somebody that On our draft
season podcast with Tony Pauline, we talked a lot about
hitting into the last year's draft. We thought he was
gonna come out being a very productive player in twenty
twenty three. And I'm having trouble finding a position for
him because he's kind of really oddly shaped. He doesn't
look like a defensive end, but he's too small to
be a defensive tackle. I know, you complain, and you're
(29:51):
right up, and you're right. He played that kind of
inside rush position where it's impossible to get to the quarterback.
See Michael Williams, your thoughts on JOEA. Where he will
fit in the National Football League wherever he gets drafted.
Speaker 3 (30:03):
Yeah, so I think Galot is a you know, uh,
break glass in case emergency players. It's like he's like
a detonation player demo. You just want to strap a
stick of dynamite to his back and throw him into
a backfield. He is really really good when he's allowed
to come off the land of scrimmage with a fast
first step of just arriving with speed to power and
then chaining that into a bowl rush and taking attack.
(30:24):
When putting him in the lap of the quarterback, he
is stubby, does not have long arms, so he's not
gonna easily throw rush moves and separate and then finish
the sack. But if you're talking about a guy rushing
opposite an elite rusher, he's gonna have the ability to
prevent the quarterback from escaping, from moving the quarterback off
of a spot, and cleaning up lanes for that elite rusher.
You think about what the Lions wanted Josh Pascal to
(30:44):
be opposite Aiden Hutchinson, and Pascal has been hurt and
then when Basketball got healthy, Hudson God hurts.
Speaker 4 (30:48):
Who haven't seen it.
Speaker 3 (30:49):
But if there's that construction of okay, one guy's my
strong side rusher who's who's going to handle that side
of the field, so my weakside rusher can dominate. That's
Gelot fits into that construction. Didn't get to do it
at Louisville, and he was the best rushing in Louso,
so they wanted him to be their sack artist. So
the NFL role is gonna be a lot different than
the college role. But the NFL role can be valuable
even if the sack number aren't going to be that high.
(31:10):
So Marcus Golden, who like Marcus gold Out a couple
seasons of eight ten sacks, But Marcus Golden is the
comp here where it's just like, Okay, he's a little
bit undersize, not long, but boy, if he gets off
the line of scrimmage, we can go reek.
Speaker 4 (31:19):
Some havoc back there and somebody else can clean up
the mess for us.
Speaker 2 (31:22):
Yeah, I agree. I think he's I think he's gonna
be a really good player, all right. I think linebacker
is a sneaky need for the Giants. Bobby Ocarike is
into the third year of his contract. He's not a
couple of years back. Mike McFadden's going into the last
year of his rookie deal and I have not watched
linebackers that they It was my last group.
Speaker 1 (31:36):
But I know you're a big fan, of course in
swets and you're white.
Speaker 4 (31:38):
Oh Man, Yeah, Sweass is really, really, really good.
Speaker 3 (31:42):
I was just watching his teammate ol Wafami Ladjo, who's
a linebacker convert to edge, and I hanging got eyes
on him, and I was watching him last night. I
just kept on watching Sweats and just been like, man,
oh man, we have we have a six three two
and forty pound linebacker can play the pass.
Speaker 4 (31:56):
And he measured too fory the combine. He probably played
closer to thirty.
Speaker 3 (32:00):
But it's the Fred Warner thing where it's like, all right,
like if you're gonna be long upright with length, like
you're always gonna lose to power in the trenches. You
have to be fast to see the holes developed, you
have to feel the undercut and slide und her blocks.
Speaker 4 (32:10):
He can do all of this.
Speaker 3 (32:11):
He's great at hiding behind stuff, playing the running back patiently,
playing multiple gaps. So he's got those tackles out of
near the line of scrimmage. High tackle player, good solo tackler,
great form. So okay, he solves the problem between the
tackles among the trees that his body type is gonna
give him such that when he drops back in, I
guess the past.
Speaker 4 (32:28):
Man like.
Speaker 3 (32:29):
There's just stuff you can't teach in terms of reading
the quarterback, in terms of spacing routes. He used to
play safety in high school. He converted the linebacker UCLA
as a walk on, and you can just tell he
feels it the way that a guy is supposed.
Speaker 4 (32:40):
To feel it.
Speaker 3 (32:40):
I remember doing j Oka came out as all his
safety converts the linebacker on a Notre Dame.
Speaker 4 (32:44):
Jok didn't feel it, man like. He didn't have good
zone spacing.
Speaker 3 (32:47):
He didn't know where how the Dolphins was trying to
stretch him and relocate him. Schwastinger just he could explain
it if you asked it to him, but he just
knows where it's coming. This is a highly impactful passive
feder for the middle of the field. If you play
split field defense, this is the exactly the sort of
the player that you want to be able to put
there and solve problems for you. I think he should
go late round one. He's taking some meetings like Ravens.
Some of these late round one teams but top forty,
(33:07):
top forty five, I'd expect for sure.
Speaker 4 (33:09):
You can see him going. You see him be an
impactful starter in year one.
Speaker 2 (33:11):
I love the fact he was a walk on, had
to fight his way onto the roster, all that stuff.
Speaker 3 (33:15):
Only a one year starter and it wasn't even supposed
to be the starter coming into the year.
Speaker 4 (33:18):
And then they put him out there and he had
like eleven tackles and they're like, all right, shoot, leave him.
Speaker 2 (33:22):
And I think, wasn't he one of the reasons they
moved Ola Dayjo over to edge too so they could
play him inside.
Speaker 4 (33:28):
Yes, they had.
Speaker 3 (33:29):
They had a big defensive scheme change, and they had
a big long jam logjam at linebacker position. They had
a couple guys come out in most recent drafts. They
have another linebacker I can't remember his name now, starts
with a K, but he's come out in this class
like a round seven guys, a high caliber athlete, you know,
not necessarily a great football player right now, but they
just had an unbelievab run of success with prospects at
(33:49):
that outside linebacker, inside and labbacker position. So they've had
like six or seven dudes down the last two or
three years. Come out as undersized line edges or as
off ball linebackers, and he was just caught in the shuffle.
And he's the best of the to come out last year, four.
Speaker 1 (34:01):
Years and I like all the day hoo.
Speaker 2 (34:02):
By the way, as a developmental edge, I watched him
up close to the senior ball, the violence he plays
with coming off the edge, and he's really good size.
Speaker 4 (34:09):
Hey, young man has built to play it. Some professional
football say that right now. He is a well constructed
young man.
Speaker 2 (34:15):
Yeah, he is, absolutely Just imagine watching him like right
up close running those X plays.
Speaker 1 (34:19):
It was a lot of fun. All right, let's go
to your two defensive backs. Now.
Speaker 2 (34:22):
I don't think the Giants will be huge into defensive
backs because of all the draft capital and then free
agent money they used on those two positions over the
last two years. But as of Thomas, I'm with you.
I think he has to be in a press system.
Though you don't want him play inn off in space.
I think that's a recipe for trouble. And then you're
a big Andrew mccooba fan. Yeah, bet, this is a great,
great draft for corners at the top round two. Thomas
(34:45):
being one of those players I tend to like guys
who I think can eliminate routes early in the down
first one second, one point five two seconds, because that's
so that's my pass rush get home.
Speaker 4 (34:53):
And you have a guy in Thomas.
Speaker 3 (34:54):
Who absolutely like you put him up against Justin Jefferson
for four quarters. He's gonna lose a couple, no question
about it. But he also has the ability to win
on third and five by just suffocating the route, and
that is not a common trait even among some of
the cornersho go in the first round. So if I
can go get that at forty because people are worried
about the forty yard dash time, I'm fine with that
because I'm not going to try to play a sort
of defense where he's running on on forty yard you know,
(35:16):
straight lines all the time anyway. And so Thomas is
scheme specific and he has a little bit of risk,
but he has cardinal traits that you don't always find.
And if you and if you take a swing on
those guys in around two and give him starting opportunities,
if they can figure it out, then that's very desirable
to me. So like Thomas mccuba, man, if you could
just if mccuba was just like six foot and a
(35:37):
half at like two hundred and five pounds, it'd be
like a Round one safety. But he is small and
he is very thin, and so you worry about a
high physicality play style leading to an injured an injury
riddled career. But holy smokes like he will come off
the roof free safety eighteen yards back. He will come
off the roof and make a tackle with the line
of scrimmage on the back like the instincts division and
(35:57):
the infield space tackling. I know people have issues with
him because he's an anngle by it and he'll die,
but he has to do it because he's not big enough.
Speaker 4 (36:02):
He's gotten very good at it.
Speaker 3 (36:04):
It's not the best way to tackle, but his efficacy
doing so is legitimately impressive because this is just how
he's had to live his ability player for the slot
because of the size of the transitional quickness, he sees
it very fast and then he goes for the football.
He has multiple force fumbles this year in pursuit in
recovery behind the guy put his hand on the ball,
shoulder on the ball. He knows, oh, if I'm not
the primary tackler. He's got to knows for getting the
(36:25):
ball on the ground, which is impactful play from the
safety position. So to me, I expect him round two
just because of the size constraints. But if he succeeds,
he had a fell with his bill and he's going
to be a plus starter pushing for Pro Bowls because
he's got everything you need.
Speaker 2 (36:36):
Who's the tiny guy that came out a couple of
years ago ended up going in I think into the
Ravens starting one.
Speaker 3 (36:40):
R Darius Washington, yep, who he had to play and
start this year. And Washington's even smaller than Thomas Washington.
My size is smaller than Akuba.
Speaker 4 (36:48):
And so.
Speaker 3 (36:50):
He had to play this year for them when they
had the transitions in safety, and he was actually a
pretty useful player for them. Yeah, the guy, he plays
very much like Chouty Gardener Johnson. He can do things
that Johnson conducers, the instincts, the tackles that line scrimmers
covering the slot.
Speaker 4 (37:01):
Johncey plays probably a little bit south of two hundred.
Speaker 3 (37:05):
Mccooba plays like one to eighty one eighty five, and
so it's just the thing the weight to lack of
of density that you're worried about.
Speaker 2 (37:11):
All Right, final question, and I'd like to ask this
to you every time we chat, because you watch it
as much of more tape than anyone. What are some
of the trends in the NFL that you've noticed as
the twenty twenty four season went along that you think
are predictive to next year and that teams and decision
makers and team builders should be keeping in mind as
they try to build out their rosters.
Speaker 4 (37:31):
That's a good question.
Speaker 3 (37:32):
I think they I talked about six offensive line becoming
a little bit more a valuable thing. You're just increasingly
seeing teams and this is a big renaissance year for
running the football. Okay, Eagles, Ravens, Lions and Bills, and
a lot of the talk was, oh, you know Saquon
Barkley and Josh Jacobs and Derek Henry and the veteran
running back. The other thing is just having the sixth
person you can get involved in the running game. This
(37:54):
was the thing about Kyle Yuschik and the Niners. It
was so valuable in the late twenty tens, just that
having that sixth body be actually a pactful, not something
you choose not like an average tight end, like a
legitimate guy. Here for the Bills, they bring in Alec Anderson,
six off its alignement tight. I played tight end the Ravens, obviously.
Patrick recard for the Eagles is Dallas Godds, one of
the best run blocking tight ends that you can find
in football. Obviously they have Galen Hurts as well to
(38:15):
make the math better and so it. The unsexy blocking
tight end is never going to start being picked in
round two again, like that ain't gonna happen. But I'm
telling you it is an important role to have on
your offense if you want to be able to run
the ball, control the clock, and control gamescript the way
that these teams do. So that stands out to me.
The other thing that stands out to me is we've
gotten so good at moving receivers around the hiding receivers
(38:37):
right like it. Just at this point you know you
can get just by anybody open that you want by
sending them in motion and snapping the ball with him
running around right like two to at well got ten
million dollars from the Rams this year. Hasn't had a
career like a season more than six hundred receiving yards.
But they send him flying around, They send him you know,
long speed and whatever. He stresses out the defense for you.
So I remember back when we started, I started doing
draft coverage man twenty seventeen, twenty eighteen. Absolute first thing
(38:58):
I would write down usher receivers. How does he get
off press coverage?
Speaker 1 (39:02):
Right? Okay?
Speaker 3 (39:02):
But he is pressed up a line of scrimmage. How well,
how does this guy behave if he if he can't
solve that problem, there's only so many places I can
play him. Now, I'll like forget to write it on
a guy like Luthor, Like you know, Luthor Burden, the
third Missouri Nancy one rapid press coverage in his life.
And when whenever he goes to the NFL, he's not
going to a smart team is not gonna put him
in a spot where he can get pressed. So we're
that's a that's a a because of how how good
(39:22):
offense has gotten to moving guys around. That is a
skill that has diminished in value. If you can do it,
chick right, because now I don't have to worry about
scheming you up and go scheme somebody else up. But man,
like a guy like a Burden the guy like Matthew
Golden out of Texas. You just use JOZ press coverage
strips on their film and and that used to be
a problem. And now the NFL is like, no, we
don't care. We can solve that problem for them, No,
no issue.
Speaker 2 (39:42):
All right, Ben, I talked about your all film story
that's up there on ESPN. Anything else you have coming
out that you and fans that kind of keep their
eye on.
Speaker 3 (39:48):
I had on my all quarterback mock this this week,
which is not actually a box draft, is just trying
to predict the exact team, the exact pick for every
single quarterback.
Speaker 4 (39:56):
Okay, you know, how do the Seahawks want to invest?
Speaker 3 (39:58):
Okay, do the Vikings need a quarter to kind of
going beyond just like, hey, you know, the Titians might
take cam Ward.
Speaker 4 (40:03):
We're kind of trying to go to some of the
late round guys.
Speaker 3 (40:05):
And so if you're a team that needs a QB
two or you're just interested in where where Cayle mccorr is.
Speaker 4 (40:09):
Gonna go, it's a goodiece for you. Go check it out.
Speaker 1 (40:11):
Do you have a do you have a guy with
the Giants yet? Are you still working on it?
Speaker 4 (40:14):
I put Shador at three to the Giants.
Speaker 3 (40:17):
Yeah, I think the Giants with the Russ and with
the Winston contracts, I think it's either they take a
guy very early or they don't take a guy at all.
And so if they're going to take a quarterback, I
expected to be one of the top names of one
of the top picks. We will say. I mean I
I Giants are tough, tough, rutting up cracks. I'm sure
you know, yeah they are.
Speaker 2 (40:34):
And by the way, I think that there are some
things with Russ and Shadoor that are not completely dissimilar.
Speaker 1 (40:38):
By the way, in terms of how they do certain things.
Speaker 2 (40:41):
I think, you know, Chador is better middle of the field,
Russ is more athletic. They both throw really high arching
deep balls. I think they both hold the ball maybe
a little bit more than they should. So I do
think there are some things with those two guys that
are little similar. Ben Solak ESPN appreciate the time, my friend.
This is always fun catching up with you. Enjoy the
next two weeks as we grind out the rest of.
Speaker 1 (40:58):
These draft prospects.
Speaker 4 (41:00):
Thank you, John, appreciate it.
Speaker 2 (41:01):
Ben Solac joining us from the Hackensack Marine Health Podcast studio,
keep getting better. That's the Johns Total Podcast, brought to
you by Citizens Official Bank of the Giants.
Speaker 1 (41:07):
We'll see you next time.
Speaker 2 (41:08):
Everybody,
It's time to get inside the Giants. Hulet's go, Let's go,
Let's go, Giants. Get out on the Giants Mobul give
me some job. Part of the Giants Podcast Network. Let's Row.
Speaker 2 (00:10):
Welcome to another edition of the Giants Little Podcast, brought
to you by Citizens, the official bank of the New
York Football Giants. I am John Schmelk. Happy to bring
back a front of the program. Been joining us for
a long time. Ben Solak, now of the mothership ESPN. Ben,
what's going on?
Speaker 1 (00:23):
Man?
Speaker 2 (00:24):
What's going on?
Speaker 3 (00:24):
John?
Speaker 4 (00:25):
How we Ben? You're doing well?
Speaker 1 (00:26):
We are doing well, just as same with you.
Speaker 2 (00:29):
Kind of grinding out as many of these prospects as
I can during the season. We're focused on the regular
season and then we kind of have to catch up
a little bit here in the offseason.
Speaker 1 (00:36):
So how many guys have you gotten through?
Speaker 2 (00:38):
And kind of what has your process been for trying
to digest as many of these draft prospects a possible.
Speaker 3 (00:42):
I'll tell you a period of time exactly how many
guys I've gotten through. I have watched one hundred and
seven prospects.
Speaker 1 (00:48):
I think you know, we're actually about it the same thing.
That's pretty good.
Speaker 3 (00:51):
Yeah, Now, and I'll be on the day two draft
show this year for the ESPN, the digital show, the
one that saw that's on the YouTube day one and
day two, and so you got to you feel like
you gotta know everybody's going to go in those first
few days.
Speaker 4 (01:02):
And so that's about where I'm at right now.
Speaker 3 (01:03):
We're definitely getting to this stage where you watch fewer
players you like than players.
Speaker 4 (01:08):
That you don't.
Speaker 3 (01:09):
That's just kind of the nature of this part of
the draft. But yeah, I'm process wise. I came up
just being a film guy, right, I came up in
the draft space in general. And so to me, like,
before I read anything about Land and Jackson, I'm going
to watch them Land and Jackson. You try to get
mostly Gamston twenty four. You get a couple of games
in twenty three, try to watch them different opponents, different offenses,
different defenses, different schemes. You get some film notes down
(01:30):
on the guy. Inherently you have some questions right about Okay,
you know how experience is he? Okay, he was always
playing at the power five level.
Speaker 4 (01:36):
You transfer from somewhere. Then you go, you get your bio,
you get your background.
Speaker 3 (01:39):
You got obviously some of the athletics testing from the combine,
you try to coalesce that into a feel, Okay, what
systems can this guy fit in? What's the ceiling, year one,
year three kind of what can he become? And you
get a round grade from there. It's hard doing all
thirty two teams, right, you take a guy like Land
and Jackson. He works for some teams, he does not
work for others. How do you how do you grade that? Okay,
he's a round too pick for some guys, in a
round six picks for others. It's very difficult, but that's
(02:01):
part of the job, right, Just you know the player
as well, and you don't focus too much on the grade.
You try to focus more on understanding how the player
will win if he wins, and what will be the
limiting factor if he's limited.
Speaker 2 (02:09):
How difficult is it for you to block out some
of what other people are saying about these guys, you know,
because you're getting ready for the Super Bowl, right, you're
doing your film work, you know, doing your you know,
chiefs Eagles work. But all of us, people like me,
out of the playoffs, we're at the Senior Bowl. We're
tweet we're putting stuff out there. By all this guy's,
this guy's that. How tough is it for you to
kind of block all that out so you really go
in with a fresh mind.
Speaker 3 (02:29):
I think it was tough, and then you learn how
to do it right. I think that like when you're
first starting out, you hear what people are saying about
a prospect and you don't want to sit down on
his film and say, well, I see this guy completely
a different way. And then this is like my my
eighth or ninth year doing draft coverage. But by that
point you get comfortable with it, right to the point
where we're right, Like I feel I'm trying to think
of a good example of someone I turned on and
just completely disagreed with with with where people were at. Oh,
(02:53):
like Tyler Warren's a good example where like I put
Tyler Warren film on and Colston Love of Them film
on in I want to say, like early February, and
I was like, oh, love is the title one to
be like clearly like I like Warreny's a good player,
Like Cleveland is clearly better. I feel like at the
time that was not really a thing. Everybody was hyped
up on Tyler Warren. He was going through the culturable Playoff,
he was making those crazy plays. Now to be at
closer to April, I feel like that's much more of
a conversation because some of the hype dies down. But
(03:15):
like you know, you learn how to filter through what
you see on on you know, when you're watching the
college Fable playoff games and you hear from the Senior Bowl,
you learn how to kind of filter that and actually
get back to the film.
Speaker 1 (03:24):
Over years, we're in the hackens Zager Mariny Hell podcast.
Speaker 2 (03:27):
You'll keep getting better, all right, Ben, So, I think
that's a good transition here. Let's talk about this class
in general and specifically at the Giants at three. Should
I be over complicating things more than just whichever guy
is there, cam Ward Abdul Carter or Travis Hunter, just
pick whichever dude has left to three, or should I
be thinking differently?
Speaker 3 (03:44):
I think that's that is the correct approach. I think
that that's the way I would hope the Giants would
take it. I think, you know, even in the world
where it's Abdul Carter and you already have Brian Burns
and cave On Tibdau, it's a great problem to have
to have those three players. I don't think that you.
I think that Tibbdeau has had his moments. I don't
think he's had enough to keep you from drafting a
guy like abdual car and figure out the rotation between
those players. And so to me, that's how it should be.
I'll be interested to see if that's what it actually
(04:05):
ends up being because of the quarterback draw right, always,
when you know you have a Russell Wilson, you have
a Jameis Winston, you got those veteran contracts in place.
But a rookie quarterback and a good quarterback can save
a franchise, can en live en a franchise in a
way that we saw from Washington last season. And that's
always a temptation when your team, like the Giants, who
haven't been the playoffs and quite some time and have
been struggling in the playoffs, when they make it there,
Moving on from Daniel Jones, what if.
Speaker 4 (04:26):
We go when we get that Shador Sanders.
Speaker 3 (04:27):
He's a firebrand, he's a franchise saver, and now all
of a sudden, our team prognostication is totally different. So
that might be a big enough temptation to affect the
logic there at three. But to me, yeah, I'd be
very happy to staying at three and take one of
those three guys.
Speaker 2 (04:38):
So then how should they approach the quarterback Where do
you see Chador in relation to the other guys in
the class. Who are your day two quarterbacks that you
think are worth taking a shot on, based on guys
that maybe could develop into something. How would you approach
the quarterback draft when it comes to the Giants? If
viewer and Joe Shane's shoes, yeah, I don't.
Speaker 3 (04:56):
I think if the name play on the back of
Shador's jersey said something different, I would not talk about
him as a Round one player. I think he'd be
right around where we're talking about Jackson Dart, right about
where we're talking about Tyler Shuck.
Speaker 1 (05:05):
I agree with it.
Speaker 3 (05:06):
Yeah, which you know, Darton Shuck to me are pretty traditional.
This is an interesting developmental quarterback. There's a shot that
this guy's good. Oh we're you know, maybe round two.
But hey, if we trade up a round one, then
we get our fifth year option, right, we get our
ability to kind of you know, get that extra cheap
year of quarterback play. So maybe we move up and
go get the guy I think, especially with the Brown
sitting there at thirty three. Overall, assuming the Brown spend
(05:29):
two on Hunter, which I think is chalk right now.
Oh man, if I wanted a quarterback at the top
of round two, I'd be really willing to get back
to the top round ones. I'd be willing about worried
about Cleveland's going to do with that thirty third pick,
And I don't have a good lean right now on Shock,
Jaln Milroe, Jackson Dart, Who's the guy that Cleveland really wants,
And so I would be willing to trade up to
go get in front of those guys. Of those dudes,
I like Shuck the best in terms of year one impact.
(05:52):
I think that he can be a Jared Golf like
player for you in terms of the play action game
and the big throws in the pocket. He's got the arm,
he's got good mechanic so off play action, he is
not mobile, he deals a lot of injuries, he's not
great against pressure, and he's quite old.
Speaker 4 (06:05):
This is not a perfect prospect.
Speaker 3 (06:06):
And so if they let's say the Giants take Shock
at thirty four, I think Shock will give you a
better offense than he gives Russell Wilson or Jameis Winston,
I absolutely do. By twenty six twenty seven, are you like, oh,
this guy's so clearly good enough that we have like
a contending team every year because of our.
Speaker 4 (06:21):
Rookie contract quarterback. I'm not sure he's that level.
Speaker 3 (06:24):
And so to me, like I don't mind the Giants
spending thirty four in a shock, I think dart is
defensible as well. If it ends up being a shadoor
fall situation and they end up going trading up into
the twenties, there are worlds where that works for you
in the short term.
Speaker 4 (06:34):
I just think the ceiling is pretty low in those.
Speaker 2 (06:36):
Guys, all right, Well, the one guy I think where
the ceiling is not low, but the floor can drop
out on you a little bit.
Speaker 1 (06:41):
As Jalen Morroll.
Speaker 2 (06:42):
You mentioned him in that conversation where if you just
evaluate him as a passer, you know he's a he's
a Day three pick.
Speaker 1 (06:48):
But the athleticism, the arm strength, all that stuff.
Speaker 2 (06:51):
Ben, what are you willing to pull the trigger on
a guy like Milroe knowing at least with Russell Wilson
in the building, he does not have to play this
year as your traditional quarterback. You could create packages for him,
which kind of gets me excited because he's a four
to four to two hundred and twenty pound athlete, which is,
you know you can use him in fun ways.
Speaker 1 (07:06):
When would you be willing to pull the trigger on
the row.
Speaker 3 (07:08):
Yeah, So I would actually push back on the low
floor construction because whenever we talk about mobile quarterbacks we
often do that where you.
Speaker 1 (07:14):
Say, you're right, I should say low floor is a passer.
I should right correct that.
Speaker 3 (07:19):
You know, I know, I know where your head's at.
I think it's an important construct. I remember talking about
it with Justin Fields with anthrow bridge and all these
guys who came out and you say, a right, Ben,
those guys didn't work out.
Speaker 4 (07:27):
You're right, they didn't work out.
Speaker 3 (07:28):
But because the mobility is so good and you can
all right in the design run game. But also they
avoid sacks, right, they convert on third and alongs with
their legs. If you go and you look at the
most valuable individual plays from like an NPA per play
perspective that an offense can have, quarterbacks scrambles are are
typically the most valuable potential play because of how often
(07:49):
those end in first downs.
Speaker 4 (07:50):
They had touchdowns. They eliminate sacks as well.
Speaker 3 (07:52):
They remove negative plays where pocket passes would take a
sack or throw a contested ball to the wiping the interception.
Mobile quarterbacks can can go and scramble. And so there
are worlds I can get to in my head where
Jalen Milroe has to start for whatever team, Giants, Steelers,
any team in like week six because somebody goes down
and the offense just works because he's so freaking fast.
He's not just like Mo, but he is so freaking fast.
(08:13):
And so I'm very interested in Milroe a as a
Day two pick. Now, that high floor construction I just
presented for Milroe is a band aid construction. It is
a stop gapcuse nothing in my offense is working. So
let's just let the athlete be the athlete to play
eleven on eleven and will beat the teams that don't
know how to deal with it. You need Milroe to
improve as a passer, and then improve again, and then
improve again to get to a point where it's like,
(08:33):
all right, this is actually a legitimate, you know, dual
threat quarterback. I think he is remarkably less advanced, measurably
less advanced than Richardson was coming out as a pure
passer than Justin Fields was coming out as a pure passer.
A lot more reps in both of those films of
those guys just standing in the pocket, reading things out
and throwing. At the college level, Milroe will just sit
there waiting for pressure because he just wants to get
(08:56):
out of pocket. He has no interest in kind of
playing the game from the pocket, and so to me,
there's a lot of stride there. But man, you can't
teach four four two twenty five.
Speaker 4 (09:04):
You can't do it. And it's very very handy when
you have it. So I'd be interested in him on
day two.
Speaker 1 (09:08):
Yeah, me too.
Speaker 2 (09:08):
I'm with you, all right, let's go to the all
tape team that you had up on ESPN, I think
last week, and you already talked to one of the
guys that the quarterback, Tyler Shuck. And I've tried to
like Red pell myself over the fact that he's twenty
six and he's been injured a lot, because I'm with you.
Speaker 1 (09:21):
His tape's fun, man, different arm angles, arm strength.
Speaker 2 (09:25):
He actually played in an offense that kind of looks
like an NFL offense.
Speaker 1 (09:29):
I'm like some of these other guys, which you know.
Speaker 2 (09:31):
And I think the point you made in there that
I thought was interesting is that of all the guys,
even more so than the Dart, in my opinion, you
could expect him to come in and contribute right away
based on what we've seen him doing college.
Speaker 3 (09:40):
Yeah, and and I am hesitant on older quarterbacks in general.
I was worried about bone next to this reason, worried
by Kenny Pickett for that reason. Shuck is a little
bit different because he suffered so many injuries, right, So,
like you know, bo Nex was like a five year starter.
He had so much experience versus Shuck where it's like, hey,
like you know, you actually like missed some time. And
that's that's why I hung around for a little bit long.
(10:00):
I do think that the injury background on the twenty
six years old it's something to be concerned about when
you start talking about, all right, if I have to
sign this guy to a second contract or Okay, it's
the film kind of lying to me because he's just
so much more mature than his opponents right now, for
a team like the Giants, like you just need a
good quarterback, like those problems are a little bit like,
you know, first world problems that the Giants are not
yet equipped to deal with, just given the way that that
(10:22):
quarterback has been such a limiting factor on this team
for the last few years. And so to me, if
you like Shuck's film, you have those wordy warths in
the back of your head, but you say, listen, like,
if we can just elevate the quarterback play here and
actually get you know, what we expect to get out
of Elik Neighbors and kind of if this defense is
what we expect this defense to be and we can
you know, just win games twenty one seventeen, like, then
I'll let the twenty twenty nine problem of paying Tyler
(10:43):
Shock when he's thirty years old, I'll let that be
the twenty twenty nine problem. I just kind of want
to solve the twenty six problem right now.
Speaker 2 (10:47):
Let me give you one more question on Shador because
I've heard this and I'm looking I'm gonna Dan brug
Laran tomorrow. I'm looking forward to asking him this question too.
People say he's accurate.
Speaker 1 (10:56):
I agree. People say he's tough. I agree. The one
thing I think about a little bit harder.
Speaker 2 (11:00):
They say he's a great processor, and he makes quick decisions.
Then I look at the fact that he was literally
bottom ten in all of college football last year in
terms of average time to throw when you take the
screens out and he passes beyond the line of scrimmage,
and that is not an advanced offense where there's a
ton of screens. There's only one a few different concepts.
I'm not sure I see the processing part of it.
(11:22):
You watch a lot more tape than I do. I'm
curious what your take is on Shador the processor and
how quickly he gets through things.
Speaker 3 (11:29):
I do not think Schador is a remarkable processor. I
think he's I think he's a fine college processor. I
think he makes good decisions with the ball in his hands,
and think that like you would not go like, oh,
low processing speed. That's something I would say about Jamn Mirroll.
I would say about Jackson Dart as well. It's not
something gonna say about Shudoor. It's it's perfectly fine, it
works for you. What Chudor does very well, which I
think gets mistaken for processing being is she Door is
a very good risk manager. Right chod Or well will
(11:51):
look at a throw and say open, maybe not don't
want to drive it. Let me go somewhere else, right
like he uh should or he will hold the wall
for a long time and he will gramble around, He'll
take pression'll take sacks and he won't get away with
that as well.
Speaker 4 (12:03):
At the NFL level, at quite a high sack rate.
Speaker 3 (12:05):
In college a eight point one percent, I want to
say it was, and that's that's gonna have to uh
uh be hand handled at the NFL level. But from
an interceptible pass perspective, from a okay, you know, is
there enough juice? Is there enough meat on this downfield throw?
Is it worth risking to the play and the ball
to get thirty five yards? He manages risk very very well.
Would you like in a pocket passer who's just a
(12:25):
point guard?
Speaker 4 (12:26):
Right?
Speaker 3 (12:26):
He does not take dumb shots, but he will take
a shot when it's open. Right, you have a you
have a guy Will Howard of Ohios orsume me Riley
Leonard at an ore dame who Ryle Leonard just does
not take shots. Riley, it is open, we got to
push the ball. He just doesn't want to do it.
Will take the shots in there and I'll pass on.
He doesn't need to take them. So the risk management
is very good, but I think that can get conflated
with processing speed.
Speaker 4 (12:46):
I think it's just a fine processoruddle up, get in here.
Speaker 1 (12:48):
If you're lined up here, you gotta go over the
middle with at the score great.
Speaker 3 (12:53):
How do we make that happen?
Speaker 4 (12:54):
I don't know.
Speaker 3 (12:55):
Bud Citizen does makes sense of your money with citizens
Official Bank of Eli Manning.
Speaker 1 (13:02):
Yeah, I think I agree.
Speaker 2 (13:03):
Good processor, not all he's not Joe Burrow, right, let's
put him in the Joe level level processing, but really
good decision maker in terms of making trying to live
at mistakes.
Speaker 1 (13:12):
I'm with you. I think that's a great way to
to kind of posit that.
Speaker 2 (13:15):
All right, let's go to running back and you bring
up a guy in your story that I'm happy you
did because not a lot of people talk about him
because he doesn't do anything that spectacular. You know, his
athletic testing isn't spectaculary. Watch him on tape. It's boring,
but damn it's good. And that's Devin Neil out of Kansas.
Why are you such a big fan?
Speaker 1 (13:31):
Yeah?
Speaker 3 (13:31):
I like backs who do what they're told, like facts
who behave right. A lot of these college backs fancy themselves.
You know, a cross between Larry Johnson and Saquon Barklan.
She's like, man, you know, Devin Neil gets exactly what's blocked.
He will get more than what's blocked because he's good
behind the line of scrimmage. She will set up double teams,
will be patient.
Speaker 4 (13:48):
We needs to be patient. Fast, We needs to be fast.
Speaker 3 (13:50):
You know, this is a really impressive draft for tackle
breakers and contact balance. You have guys in obviously Action Gentino,
mari and Hampton the top of the class, but Damian
Martine Martinez out of Miami and Cam scattabout Arizona State.
You have some guys who are like ninetieth percentile contact
bounced tackle breakers, very tough class. And so Devin Neil,
who's like eighty fifth never gets talked about in this
(14:11):
Area's a little bit smaller. He's just he's just not
like elite elite, But he said, he's a wonderful contact
bounce regularly sheds the first tackler he can get through
the trees, right, you get those arm tackles from nose
guards and deep with the tackles and survive it. He
doesn't have the home run speed, but he's mighty quick,
he's very bouncy, he's got very smart feet. Devin Neil
is extremely similar to Ashton Genty in terms of play style.
(14:32):
Is just you know, knock a letter grade off in
kind of every single trait. Right He's a B where
Gent he's an A in a lot of areas. And
so I'm a team that has a lot of uncertainty
at running back. I don't know who I want to
give volume to, and I would like to get a
back that I know I can trust to give fifteen
eighteen carries to. Not going to hit the Sacle and
Barkley home runs for me, not going to have Alvin
Kamara six yard six reception games for me, but it's
(14:52):
just going to keep my offense on schedule. I think
Neil is the best option on day three. So take
the Raiders at six. Oh, they've been paired to ash
Genty all year. If they go corner at six, they
trade out of six and they don't get Gent. There's
no one in that backfield right now you trust to
take volume. Come around, Take take Devin Neil round four
and just give it first rookie contract, give him fifteen
carries a game and he will keep you on schedule,
(15:12):
so very trustworthy player.
Speaker 2 (15:14):
Do you love this running back class as much as
I do? I've I think I've gone through fifteen running
backs and I feel like there's stole another half.
Speaker 1 (15:19):
Doesn't I need to watch that? I think?
Speaker 2 (15:21):
Or then when I've seen little bits and pieces, I
think are pretty good. And who are some of the
guys that are kind of your pet cats out of
the group that you love?
Speaker 3 (15:27):
Yes, I was on with Mena on her show yesterday
and we talked about this class and we realized that
it's probably the best class since twenty seventeen. Had thirty
players selected in twenty seventeen day at running back. This
was the Leonard Fournette, Christian McCaffrey, Dalvin Cook, Joe Mix
and Alvin Kamara, Kareem Hunt, James Connor, Aaron Jones year right,
like just like filthy good, Right, this is probably the
(15:49):
best class since then. I brought up Damian Martinez out
of Miami, big fan of his Big Bruiser two sixteen
two twenty sweet feet. Romandre Stevenson is a guy. He
reminds me of a little bit Baseial Twoton, the speed
str out of Virginia Tech. Every year there's kind of
one of these, you know, plug and play wide zone
home run hitting backs. He's the one this year. He's
got fumble problems, Man, you can clean those up. And
(16:09):
I bet you he's a little bit better as a
pass catcher than you saw from Virginia tax because they
never used him like that.
Speaker 2 (16:13):
I think he's also top ten to fifteen percent in
the in the breaking breaking tackles category two. He's one
of those other guys in high in those metrics.
Speaker 3 (16:19):
Yeah, and he he The thing is, he's very, very
smooth and son.
Speaker 4 (16:22):
He can kind of like glide through a lot.
Speaker 3 (16:24):
Of arm tackles and everything like that. He's not small either.
He's over He's over two hundred pounds. So I find
him very likable. I'm a big quinch on Judkins guy
on on day two. Same thing with Devin Neil, right,
Like Trayvon Henderson was the home run hitter for Ohio State,
but Johnkins just kept the offense on schedule because the
short yardage guy. Their third down guys very reliable. So
big fan of his as well. There's a lot of
guys to.
Speaker 2 (16:42):
Like I'm with you, all right, let's go to wide
receiver not a great class at the top right.
Speaker 1 (16:46):
And I think this is kind of a common theme.
Speaker 2 (16:48):
And you said this when you were on with on
the Athletic Football Show with Robert Razy the other day.
This is not a draft where you want a premium pick.
Though I think picking the top three is okay because
you have a chance to get either a Hunter or
Carter right, but you get picking four to eleven, you're
kind of not getting the top ten player in any
other draft class. And I think wide receivers similar. I'm
a big tech McMillan guy. I like to get your
take on him. But I think day two, if you
(17:09):
look at for like a number two or number three
wide receiver, there are a lot of guys on Day
two and early Day three that are going to be
able to fill those roles for you.
Speaker 3 (17:17):
No, I very much agree. I think that there's no
such thing as a bad receiver class. I don't think
it exists because they're just like fifteen twenty years ago,
colleges couldn't throw the ball. We have to remember this,
like they weren't good enough quarterbacks, the schemes weren't good,
like there were many many offenses like the Alabama national champions.
Speaker 4 (17:31):
They just never threw it right. They had like Alvin
Ridley and and Maari Cooper.
Speaker 3 (17:35):
You're not throwing the ball now with RPOs, with quarterback
development seven on seven in high school, so many more
teams throw the ball.
Speaker 4 (17:41):
You have three receivers on the field. I ever given play.
Speaker 3 (17:43):
There's so many different body types of athletes styles that
work at that position that you're just never going to
have a class that's devoid of talent.
Speaker 4 (17:48):
Sure it's not.
Speaker 3 (17:50):
Romandunzi Laku Neighbors and Marvin Harrison Junior, but it's still
I think a very dense class, a lot of starting
caliber options.
Speaker 4 (17:56):
I agree.
Speaker 2 (17:57):
And the guy that you bring up in your All
Film Team on ESPN dot Com story is Jack bash
At a TCU boy. Just watching the quarterback play at
TCU can can give you a little bit of a
headache trying to watch good targets like Stevian Williams and him.
But what struck me about him and you talk about
his transitioning from a receiver to a runner, I just
think what he does at the top of the rout
(18:17):
tree is really really good. Like his ability at his
size and weight to change direction at the top of
the routree to go break wherever he's breaking, and I
think we saw that in his in his three cone
and a short shuttle with the combine. I just think
he's very sharp as a rout runner, knows how to
get open, and that dude does not drop anything.
Speaker 3 (18:33):
Yeah, Jack Bash is gonna be a good pro for
a very very long time because he is He is
exactly what a quarterback wants that player to be. He
will block, and he'll block his butt off when he
needs to. You said, he will catch everything. He will
erase inaccuracy. He will make difficult catches over the middle
of the field through contact.
Speaker 4 (18:50):
So when I have to throw a.
Speaker 3 (18:52):
Glance to a slant to and you have to go
get it for me on third down, he will go
get it for you. And then the moment he becomes
a runner, he is out to kill the I mean
he is so physical, he is so tough. He carries
big guys for extra three yards. He was really good
Like short yard it's a goal line for them. Just
because of how tough he is. Your quarterback is going
to love throwing the football to Jack Bash. That is
(19:12):
just going to keep you around forever. And then if
he is enough of an athlete because he didn't run
a forty and like the long speed is a question.
He's quicker than he is explosive, which is like Cooper
Cupp is that way too compat the great agility tests,
bad jumps, and Besh's built that exact same way. If
he can be enough of an NFL athlete to break
the first angle and get and get a little bit
loose in the open field, he's.
Speaker 4 (19:32):
Got a ten year career.
Speaker 3 (19:34):
Not as the wide receiver one best, the wide receiver
two who just eats eats, eats volume and just just
always reliable for the team.
Speaker 4 (19:39):
I think that's just gonna be a long, long time. Bro.
Speaker 2 (19:41):
Can the league just get together and not let Sean
McVay draft this guy, because I think he would just
love having this guy in his roster.
Speaker 4 (19:47):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (19:48):
I mean, like I keep looking at the Texans, and
then I look at the Dolphins, and I look at
the Packers Dolphins if they move on from Tyree Kill.
But those three teams in the second round where I
say there's a lot of room for a Jack Best
to be very valuable for this team.
Speaker 2 (19:59):
One hundred percent agree with all Right, let's go to
tight ends. You've been on Mitchell Evans. So I think
it's interesting because I think you see as his upside
as a true y right, as a guy that can
block a little bit. And my understanding that he dealt
with a lot of injuries this year and he's probably
a better athlete than what he showed on tape in
another really good tight end class.
Speaker 1 (20:15):
Why did the tape of Evans jump out to you?
Speaker 3 (20:17):
Yeah, So Evan's had a late ACL tear in the
twenty twenty three season where he was really really dominant.
He's having some some big games for Notre Dame with
not great quarterback play, and so that late tair means
that you either have to miss some time at the
start of the twenty four season or you have to
rehab really fast and come back really fast. And Notre
Dame had playoff aspirations, the championship aspirations. So he came
back and he played Week one and just like you
(20:37):
put you put on the early you know, week one
week two film, you're like, oh my god, Like this
guy's running at like seventy percent. He just is not
finished with rehab at all, and and but he's trying
to stay it at playing weight, and he's you know,
he's competing in games, and so like the rehabit slows
down and just the over the course of the year,
he's getting a little bit faster and getting a little
bit looser. He's missing fewer snaps. But in general, like
it just was, it was clearly not the athlete he
(20:59):
wasn't twenty three. So if you can get me twenty
twenty three, Mitch Levens, because after another season, another offseason,
he's fully healthy, then right, I have a guy who's
who can play two fifty two hundred and fifty five pounds,
who catches reliably over the middle of the field, can
make some tough catches up the scene and down the field,
blocks very very well in line, blocks well in space.
He's just a well rounded tight end. He's very col Cometish, right,
remember Cole Comet coming out of Notre Dame. You know,
(21:21):
big surprise, but he's very col Commetish and that there's
there's no big weakness to his game, there's no big
zip to his game. Oh incredible, whatever. But Comett was
a top fifty pick and then went on to become
like a top ten, top twelve court contract at tight
end when he signed his deal. If I get Evans
and that two rounds later with injury risk reminds me
of like the Eagles taking Josh Sweat, Right, It's just like, hey,
you know, we're gonna roll the dice on Lesson. If
he pounds out for us, he pans out for US,
(21:42):
loan and behold. Sometimes those injury guys do.
Speaker 2 (21:44):
So that's why, like Evans, you mentioned the Warren Loveland
thing at the top. Very briefly, I think the thing
about ty Warren that gets people. You see the way
he runs, and you're like, well, that guy has to
be a good blocker. And I think you see how
he approaches blocking, and he approaches it like a guy
who's going to be a really good blocker. But then
you see him actually try to block guys, and a
(22:05):
lot of times the results aren't what you think they
should be based on his body type and how he plays.
Speaker 3 (22:11):
Thirty one and a half in charms for Tyler Warren
measured at the NFL Combine, and so all those measurements
are bad this year, like they're all too short. He
didn't go, he didn't measure at all of his pro day,
and so we didn't get an update of pro Day.
So imagine his arms are somewhere around thirty two inches.
But if you look at the guy, he just looks
a little bit shorter in the arms.
Speaker 4 (22:25):
And then when you watch him block, he falls off
of blocks because he doesn't have great length, and that's
going to be a limiting factor for you in your ability. Right,
he comes into contact good, I agree with you, he
has the want to, I agree with you, and then
he goes to get his hooks in.
Speaker 3 (22:37):
Lock out and engage Ryan get to that point of
control and he just reaches his maximum point. And so
when he plays against bigger bodies that there's a big
limiting factor there. And so I think he's much better
for like blocking in space, which is how you saw
Penn State try to use him right, kind of stock
blocking and on these screens, and I think you know
he's even though he's got that tough guy moniker and
he's two hundred and fifty five pounds in the NFL,
(22:57):
is going to be a move tight ends. He's so
good after the catch with the ball in his hands,
So you're gonna see him used that way kind of
a more so a guy who's detached from the line
of scrimmage, which is a totally fine, acceptable usage.
Speaker 4 (23:06):
You can draft the guy in the first.
Speaker 3 (23:07):
Round, but it's worth noting like for some teams what
they want from their tight end. Warren has pretty dramatic
limiting factors at leveland dozens. That's that's where I landed
on the guys.
Speaker 2 (23:16):
Any other second day tight end that you really think
stands out a month, what's a pretty deep group.
Speaker 3 (23:21):
Great tight end class. I like Mason Taylor out of
elis you a lot. I like Terrence Ferguson, the young
man out of Oregon quite a bit as well. Gunner
Helm out of Texas is the guy that I think
has the best like kind of blocking upside. He has
a lot of want to, He has a lot of
no how he the text would leave him isolated against
edges and he would fight man. He would He would
get a sustained to two and a half seconds before
(23:41):
he lost, which is very impressive for a college tight end.
Speaker 4 (23:43):
He has some technique problems, right, He wastepends.
Speaker 3 (23:45):
He leans on guys and you can get snatched if
you clean that up like this is like a I
remember how good Dallas Goddard got blocking it tight end
over the coming out of South Dakota State, became a
real impactful player for the Eagles again over his time. Though,
to me, Gunner Helms is that guy who if if
you're talking to me, like if like a three down
tight end who really leaves out. Gunner helm is my guy.
But Ferguson and Taylor as well, all three of them.
It's a very likable tight end class.
Speaker 2 (24:06):
I'm with you one hundred percent. All right, let's go
to the offensive one here, Willie Lampkin. I'm gonna call
it little Willie Lampkin, even though he's not really little
compared to us, but for other offensive lineman, he's little,
and he was really good at the Senior Bowl. He's
the guy that maybe the measurables don't fit, but man,
you're right, his tape is great.
Speaker 3 (24:20):
Yeah, he's five five foot eleven, which is just he's
like five to eleven, probably played like two seventy five.
It is a completely unacceptable NFL size. But what if
it wasn't What.
Speaker 4 (24:31):
If it isn't right? What if he's the exception that
proves the rule.
Speaker 3 (24:33):
In his time at Coast to Carolina, he played he
played at tackle he played a guard. He played at center.
He goes to you and see he plays at guard.
He's gonna have to be a center at the NFL level.
But we have a guy with positional versatility. We have
a guy who's who's already at the college level a
disproportionately good pass blocker for his size. Right, he has
that natural leverage. He fights to a lot of neutrals.
He can he can drop the anchor relatively well. And
so I if you're talking to me about a late
(24:55):
day through pick of UDFA, that's what he's gonna be. Yeah,
I'll give him a shot to come in and be
my second from his own team. See if it works,
and if it doesn't, I'll patrick ricard him. I'll find
six offensive line packages which are increasingly becoming common in
the NFL. Right, I can you know attachment line of scrimmage,
tend him in motion, put him in the backfield, kind
of use him as a super sized fullback. So he
is a interesting player. I think the size does preclude
him from like having legitimate NFL success, but it should
(25:18):
have precluded him for having legitimate ACC success. And he
won the award for the best Offensive Alignment in the
conference and so who knows.
Speaker 4 (25:24):
Man, give him a shot.
Speaker 2 (25:25):
Now, I'm with you, and in this offensive line class
in general, I would love for the Giants for drafts
and offensive tackle here and starting in round two, can't
find one.
Speaker 1 (25:32):
I gonna be honest with you. You know, maybe ariante
Ursery from Minnesota. Maybe is my only day too offensive tackle.
All these other offensive tackles to me are moving into guard.
Speaker 2 (25:41):
So if you want to find a guard that I
think you could find one on day two. But I
don't think you'll find the many tackles here.
Speaker 4 (25:45):
Man, did you watch did you watch though William and
Mary Kay? Charles Grant?
Speaker 1 (25:49):
I have not watched Charles Grant yet. No, watch you
some Charles Grant.
Speaker 3 (25:52):
Then get back to me on all these tackles have
to become guards because I think he can stay and
he can hang.
Speaker 2 (25:56):
Okay, yeah, that's the one guy. I'm not watched it.
I've heard good things he's on.
Speaker 3 (26:00):
It's not a lot of film out there on it,
but you can find a couple of games and yeah,
it's it's I expect him to go round too, and
I expect him to be the developmental tackle of choice
because I agree it's him, and then Boston College Ozzie
Trapeo pill yeh, yeah, who gets talked about a staying
at tackle. I think Trapeo is fine more Round three
for me, Grant is the.
Speaker 4 (26:14):
One I have to be interested in. Round two.
Speaker 1 (26:16):
Yeah, I agree.
Speaker 2 (26:16):
I watched your pillow the Senior Bowl and he was
He started rough first day, but he ended up doing
much better the next couple of days. Really nice size
with him over there. I think he's more of a
right tackle than the left tackle too. Agreed with with
the way he plays.
Speaker 1 (26:27):
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Speaker 3 (26:31):
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Speaker 4 (26:35):
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Speaker 1 (26:36):
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Speaker 2 (26:41):
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Speaker 1 (26:54):
All Right.
Speaker 2 (26:55):
We're joined by Ben Solak from ESPN all right, Ben,
let's go to the defensive side of the ball. I've
bet fans yell at me for trying to give them
tyleegue Williams to pick thirty four of role because he
dosn't rush the passer. And I said, guys, this might
be the safest player in the draft because he is
just a dominant run stuffer. And if I wind up
with like a Dalvin Tomlinson plus with my thirty fourth
overall pick, what's wrong with that?
Speaker 4 (27:14):
Yeah?
Speaker 3 (27:15):
And that's that's I think that's about what you're getting
as a Dalvin Thomlinson plus. I think he also can
be a better pass rusher in the NFL than he
was in college.
Speaker 4 (27:22):
If you watch those Ohio.
Speaker 3 (27:23):
State that entire defensive line, Jack Sawyer, j T. Twomloile,
it's very clear that the coaching point was play the run,
play the run, play the run, and play the run,
and then if we get pass, yeah, you can go
kind of collapse and like you know, suffocate the pocket.
But they were not attempting to be a high sack,
high pressure, upfield penetrate team. Everybody along that line was
controller gaps, controller space will solve problems on the back end,
and so Williams is every physical trait of a guy
(27:45):
who can be like a four or five sack player
from defensive tackle.
Speaker 4 (27:48):
That's typically pretty good.
Speaker 3 (27:49):
Giants fans are spoiled with extra Lawrence, the best pass
rushing nos tackle the world has ever seen.
Speaker 4 (27:54):
But like that, he has that ceiling. That's a fine ceiling.
Speaker 3 (27:56):
So I agree. I like him as an early round
two pick. I think he's worth that for the Giants.
When you have Lawrence in place, I would want to
prioritize pass rush over run stuffing at the defensive line.
But if they were to make the pick, I'd be
very quickly like, oh heck, yeah, but let's just never
get run on again. It's a fun duo for sure.
Speaker 1 (28:12):
Yeah, which they've had trouble stopping for the last like
three or four years. It's been bad.
Speaker 2 (28:16):
So I guess what I like about the defensive tackle
class band. It is also deep, and I think you
do have a number of guys that can play both roles. Right,
you're upfield three technique, whether it's the Sanders kid out
of South Carolina, you could talk about Omore Norman, lot
guys like that, and then you have your run stuffers
we talked about Tylie Williams. You could talk about Caldwell
guys like that, so you would prioritize pass rush first.
Who are maybe some of the guys you like a
(28:37):
little bit later, maybe one one stuffer and one guy
that can get a field a little bit.
Speaker 3 (28:41):
I like Darius Alexander out of Toledo for your for
your pass rush, and I think that there's he's a
late bloomer and he's an older prospect to Okay, you
walk in a little bit concerned, and then you see
what the background was and kind of how he came
to Toledo and they talked.
Speaker 4 (28:52):
They've talked a lot about Hey, like.
Speaker 3 (28:53):
When he was first here and like the first couple
of years he shouldn't have his head screwed on straight,
like he did not take this as seriously.
Speaker 4 (28:58):
As maybe he'd wanted to. And then the light bulbs
are to go on to what he was capable of it.
Speaker 3 (29:01):
You say, Okay, I now understand why this guy has
had the arc that he does. It's a little bit
more explicable to me. And so I like Alexander as
as your upfield guy. And then you said another more
of a stuffing. Yeah, uh, broughtman out of Texas.
Speaker 1 (29:15):
I like.
Speaker 3 (29:16):
I think Alfred Collins gets a little bit more of
the the hype and the push. But Brown's everything you
want for a rotational defensive lineman. He's a B minus
C plus player. Everywhere is a high effort. He's got
a lot of pop in his hands. So he's more
of like a round three, round four guy that I
would take.
Speaker 2 (29:29):
All right, let's go to Ashton Jewatt. He's your tape
guy at defensive end. He's somebody that On our draft
season podcast with Tony Pauline, we talked a lot about
hitting into the last year's draft. We thought he was
gonna come out being a very productive player in twenty
twenty three. And I'm having trouble finding a position for
him because he's kind of really oddly shaped. He doesn't
look like a defensive end, but he's too small to
be a defensive tackle. I know, you complain, and you're
(29:51):
right up, and you're right. He played that kind of
inside rush position where it's impossible to get to the quarterback.
See Michael Williams, your thoughts on JOEA. Where he will
fit in the National Football League wherever he gets drafted.
Speaker 3 (30:03):
Yeah, so I think Galot is a you know, uh,
break glass in case emergency players. It's like he's like
a detonation player demo. You just want to strap a
stick of dynamite to his back and throw him into
a backfield. He is really really good when he's allowed
to come off the land of scrimmage with a fast
first step of just arriving with speed to power and
then chaining that into a bowl rush and taking attack.
(30:24):
When putting him in the lap of the quarterback, he
is stubby, does not have long arms, so he's not
gonna easily throw rush moves and separate and then finish
the sack. But if you're talking about a guy rushing
opposite an elite rusher, he's gonna have the ability to
prevent the quarterback from escaping, from moving the quarterback off
of a spot, and cleaning up lanes for that elite rusher.
You think about what the Lions wanted Josh Pascal to
(30:44):
be opposite Aiden Hutchinson, and Pascal has been hurt and
then when Basketball got healthy, Hudson God hurts.
Speaker 4 (30:48):
Who haven't seen it.
Speaker 3 (30:49):
But if there's that construction of okay, one guy's my
strong side rusher who's who's going to handle that side
of the field, so my weakside rusher can dominate. That's
Gelot fits into that construction. Didn't get to do it
at Louisville, and he was the best rushing in Louso,
so they wanted him to be their sack artist. So
the NFL role is gonna be a lot different than
the college role. But the NFL role can be valuable
even if the sack number aren't going to be that high.
(31:10):
So Marcus Golden, who like Marcus gold Out a couple
seasons of eight ten sacks, But Marcus Golden is the
comp here where it's just like, Okay, he's a little
bit undersize, not long, but boy, if he gets off
the line of scrimmage, we can go reek.
Speaker 4 (31:19):
Some havoc back there and somebody else can clean up
the mess for us.
Speaker 2 (31:22):
Yeah, I agree. I think he's I think he's gonna
be a really good player, all right. I think linebacker
is a sneaky need for the Giants. Bobby Ocarike is
into the third year of his contract. He's not a
couple of years back. Mike McFadden's going into the last
year of his rookie deal and I have not watched
linebackers that they It was my last group.
Speaker 1 (31:36):
But I know you're a big fan, of course in
swets and you're white.
Speaker 4 (31:38):
Oh Man, Yeah, Sweass is really, really, really good.
Speaker 3 (31:42):
I was just watching his teammate ol Wafami Ladjo, who's
a linebacker convert to edge, and I hanging got eyes
on him, and I was watching him last night. I
just kept on watching Sweats and just been like, man,
oh man, we have we have a six three two
and forty pound linebacker can play the pass.
Speaker 4 (31:56):
And he measured too fory the combine. He probably played
closer to thirty.
Speaker 3 (32:00):
But it's the Fred Warner thing where it's like, all right,
like if you're gonna be long upright with length, like
you're always gonna lose to power in the trenches. You
have to be fast to see the holes developed, you
have to feel the undercut and slide und her blocks.
Speaker 4 (32:10):
He can do all of this.
Speaker 3 (32:11):
He's great at hiding behind stuff, playing the running back patiently,
playing multiple gaps. So he's got those tackles out of
near the line of scrimmage. High tackle player, good solo tackler,
great form. So okay, he solves the problem between the
tackles among the trees that his body type is gonna
give him such that when he drops back in, I
guess the past.
Speaker 4 (32:28):
Man like.
Speaker 3 (32:29):
There's just stuff you can't teach in terms of reading
the quarterback, in terms of spacing routes. He used to
play safety in high school. He converted the linebacker UCLA
as a walk on, and you can just tell he
feels it the way that a guy is supposed.
Speaker 4 (32:40):
To feel it.
Speaker 3 (32:40):
I remember doing j Oka came out as all his
safety converts the linebacker on a Notre Dame.
Speaker 4 (32:44):
Jok didn't feel it, man like. He didn't have good
zone spacing.
Speaker 3 (32:47):
He didn't know where how the Dolphins was trying to
stretch him and relocate him. Schwastinger just he could explain
it if you asked it to him, but he just
knows where it's coming. This is a highly impactful passive
feder for the middle of the field. If you play
split field defense, this is the exactly the sort of
the player that you want to be able to put
there and solve problems for you. I think he should
go late round one. He's taking some meetings like Ravens.
Some of these late round one teams but top forty,
(33:07):
top forty five, I'd expect for sure.
Speaker 4 (33:09):
You can see him going. You see him be an
impactful starter in year one.
Speaker 2 (33:11):
I love the fact he was a walk on, had
to fight his way onto the roster, all that stuff.
Speaker 3 (33:15):
Only a one year starter and it wasn't even supposed
to be the starter coming into the year.
Speaker 4 (33:18):
And then they put him out there and he had
like eleven tackles and they're like, all right, shoot, leave him.
Speaker 2 (33:22):
And I think, wasn't he one of the reasons they
moved Ola Dayjo over to edge too so they could
play him inside.
Speaker 4 (33:28):
Yes, they had.
Speaker 3 (33:29):
They had a big defensive scheme change, and they had
a big long jam logjam at linebacker position. They had
a couple guys come out in most recent drafts. They
have another linebacker I can't remember his name now, starts
with a K, but he's come out in this class
like a round seven guys, a high caliber athlete, you know,
not necessarily a great football player right now, but they
just had an unbelievab run of success with prospects at
(33:49):
that outside linebacker, inside and labbacker position. So they've had
like six or seven dudes down the last two or
three years. Come out as undersized line edges or as
off ball linebackers, and he was just caught in the shuffle.
And he's the best of the to come out last year, four.
Speaker 1 (34:01):
Years and I like all the day hoo.
Speaker 2 (34:02):
By the way, as a developmental edge, I watched him
up close to the senior ball, the violence he plays
with coming off the edge, and he's really good size.
Speaker 4 (34:09):
Hey, young man has built to play it. Some professional
football say that right now. He is a well constructed
young man.
Speaker 2 (34:15):
Yeah, he is, absolutely Just imagine watching him like right
up close running those X plays.
Speaker 1 (34:19):
It was a lot of fun. All right, let's go
to your two defensive backs. Now.
Speaker 2 (34:22):
I don't think the Giants will be huge into defensive
backs because of all the draft capital and then free
agent money they used on those two positions over the
last two years. But as of Thomas, I'm with you.
I think he has to be in a press system.
Though you don't want him play inn off in space.
I think that's a recipe for trouble. And then you're
a big Andrew mccooba fan. Yeah, bet, this is a great,
great draft for corners at the top round two. Thomas
(34:45):
being one of those players I tend to like guys
who I think can eliminate routes early in the down
first one second, one point five two seconds, because that's
so that's my pass rush get home.
Speaker 4 (34:53):
And you have a guy in Thomas.
Speaker 3 (34:54):
Who absolutely like you put him up against Justin Jefferson
for four quarters. He's gonna lose a couple, no question
about it. But he also has the ability to win
on third and five by just suffocating the route, and
that is not a common trait even among some of
the cornersho go in the first round. So if I
can go get that at forty because people are worried
about the forty yard dash time, I'm fine with that
because I'm not going to try to play a sort
of defense where he's running on on forty yard you know,
(35:16):
straight lines all the time anyway. And so Thomas is
scheme specific and he has a little bit of risk,
but he has cardinal traits that you don't always find.
And if you and if you take a swing on
those guys in around two and give him starting opportunities,
if they can figure it out, then that's very desirable
to me. So like Thomas mccuba, man, if you could
just if mccuba was just like six foot and a
(35:37):
half at like two hundred and five pounds, it'd be
like a Round one safety. But he is small and
he is very thin, and so you worry about a
high physicality play style leading to an injured an injury
riddled career. But holy smokes like he will come off
the roof free safety eighteen yards back. He will come
off the roof and make a tackle with the line
of scrimmage on the back like the instincts division and
(35:57):
the infield space tackling. I know people have issues with
him because he's an anngle by it and he'll die,
but he has to do it because he's not big enough.
Speaker 4 (36:02):
He's gotten very good at it.
Speaker 3 (36:04):
It's not the best way to tackle, but his efficacy
doing so is legitimately impressive because this is just how
he's had to live his ability player for the slot
because of the size of the transitional quickness, he sees
it very fast and then he goes for the football.
He has multiple force fumbles this year in pursuit in
recovery behind the guy put his hand on the ball,
shoulder on the ball. He knows, oh, if I'm not
the primary tackler. He's got to knows for getting the
(36:25):
ball on the ground, which is impactful play from the
safety position. So to me, I expect him round two
just because of the size constraints. But if he succeeds,
he had a fell with his bill and he's going
to be a plus starter pushing for Pro Bowls because
he's got everything you need.
Speaker 2 (36:36):
Who's the tiny guy that came out a couple of
years ago ended up going in I think into the
Ravens starting one.
Speaker 3 (36:40):
R Darius Washington, yep, who he had to play and
start this year. And Washington's even smaller than Thomas Washington.
My size is smaller than Akuba.
Speaker 4 (36:48):
And so.
Speaker 3 (36:50):
He had to play this year for them when they
had the transitions in safety, and he was actually a
pretty useful player for them. Yeah, the guy, he plays
very much like Chouty Gardener Johnson. He can do things
that Johnson conducers, the instincts, the tackles that line scrimmers
covering the slot.
Speaker 4 (37:01):
Johncey plays probably a little bit south of two hundred.
Speaker 3 (37:05):
Mccooba plays like one to eighty one eighty five, and
so it's just the thing the weight to lack of
of density that you're worried about.
Speaker 2 (37:11):
All Right, final question, and I'd like to ask this
to you every time we chat, because you watch it
as much of more tape than anyone. What are some
of the trends in the NFL that you've noticed as
the twenty twenty four season went along that you think
are predictive to next year and that teams and decision
makers and team builders should be keeping in mind as
they try to build out their rosters.
Speaker 4 (37:31):
That's a good question.
Speaker 3 (37:32):
I think they I talked about six offensive line becoming
a little bit more a valuable thing. You're just increasingly
seeing teams and this is a big renaissance year for
running the football. Okay, Eagles, Ravens, Lions and Bills, and
a lot of the talk was, oh, you know Saquon
Barkley and Josh Jacobs and Derek Henry and the veteran
running back. The other thing is just having the sixth
person you can get involved in the running game. This
(37:54):
was the thing about Kyle Yuschik and the Niners. It
was so valuable in the late twenty tens, just that
having that sixth body be actually a pactful, not something
you choose not like an average tight end, like a
legitimate guy. Here for the Bills, they bring in Alec Anderson,
six off its alignement tight. I played tight end the Ravens, obviously.
Patrick recard for the Eagles is Dallas Godds, one of
the best run blocking tight ends that you can find
in football. Obviously they have Galen Hurts as well to
(38:15):
make the math better and so it. The unsexy blocking
tight end is never going to start being picked in
round two again, like that ain't gonna happen. But I'm
telling you it is an important role to have on
your offense if you want to be able to run
the ball, control the clock, and control gamescript the way
that these teams do. So that stands out to me.
The other thing that stands out to me is we've
gotten so good at moving receivers around the hiding receivers
(38:37):
right like it. Just at this point you know you
can get just by anybody open that you want by
sending them in motion and snapping the ball with him
running around right like two to at well got ten
million dollars from the Rams this year. Hasn't had a
career like a season more than six hundred receiving yards.
But they send him flying around, They send him you know,
long speed and whatever. He stresses out the defense for you.
So I remember back when we started, I started doing
draft coverage man twenty seventeen, twenty eighteen. Absolute first thing
(38:58):
I would write down usher receivers. How does he get
off press coverage?
Speaker 1 (39:02):
Right? Okay?
Speaker 3 (39:02):
But he is pressed up a line of scrimmage. How well,
how does this guy behave if he if he can't
solve that problem, there's only so many places I can
play him. Now, I'll like forget to write it on
a guy like Luthor, Like you know, Luthor Burden, the
third Missouri Nancy one rapid press coverage in his life.
And when whenever he goes to the NFL, he's not
going to a smart team is not gonna put him
in a spot where he can get pressed. So we're
that's a that's a a because of how how good
(39:22):
offense has gotten to moving guys around. That is a
skill that has diminished in value. If you can do it,
chick right, because now I don't have to worry about
scheming you up and go scheme somebody else up. But man,
like a guy like a Burden the guy like Matthew
Golden out of Texas. You just use JOZ press coverage
strips on their film and and that used to be
a problem. And now the NFL is like, no, we
don't care. We can solve that problem for them, No,
no issue.
Speaker 2 (39:42):
All right, Ben, I talked about your all film story
that's up there on ESPN. Anything else you have coming
out that you and fans that kind of keep their
eye on.
Speaker 3 (39:48):
I had on my all quarterback mock this this week,
which is not actually a box draft, is just trying
to predict the exact team, the exact pick for every
single quarterback.
Speaker 4 (39:56):
Okay, you know, how do the Seahawks want to invest?
Speaker 3 (39:58):
Okay, do the Vikings need a quarter to kind of
going beyond just like, hey, you know, the Titians might
take cam Ward.
Speaker 4 (40:03):
We're kind of trying to go to some of the
late round guys.
Speaker 3 (40:05):
And so if you're a team that needs a QB
two or you're just interested in where where Cayle mccorr is.
Speaker 4 (40:09):
Gonna go, it's a goodiece for you. Go check it out.
Speaker 1 (40:11):
Do you have a do you have a guy with
the Giants yet? Are you still working on it?
Speaker 4 (40:14):
I put Shador at three to the Giants.
Speaker 3 (40:17):
Yeah, I think the Giants with the Russ and with
the Winston contracts, I think it's either they take a
guy very early or they don't take a guy at all.
And so if they're going to take a quarterback, I
expected to be one of the top names of one
of the top picks. We will say. I mean I
I Giants are tough, tough, rutting up cracks. I'm sure
you know, yeah they are.
Speaker 2 (40:34):
And by the way, I think that there are some
things with Russ and Shadoor that are not completely dissimilar.
Speaker 1 (40:38):
By the way, in terms of how they do certain things.
Speaker 2 (40:41):
I think, you know, Chador is better middle of the field,
Russ is more athletic. They both throw really high arching
deep balls. I think they both hold the ball maybe
a little bit more than they should. So I do
think there are some things with those two guys that
are little similar. Ben Solak ESPN appreciate the time, my friend.
This is always fun catching up with you. Enjoy the
next two weeks as we grind out the rest of.
Speaker 1 (40:58):
These draft prospects.
Speaker 4 (41:00):
Thank you, John, appreciate it.
Speaker 2 (41:01):
Ben Solac joining us from the Hackensack Marine Health Podcast studio,
keep getting better. That's the Johns Total Podcast, brought to
you by Citizens Official Bank of the Giants.
Speaker 1 (41:07):
We'll see you next time.
Speaker 2 (41:08):
Everybody,
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