October 16, 2025 • 26 mins
Former NFL quarterback and Super Bowl champion, Brian Hoyer, talks about what he has seen from Jaxson Dart so far this season, highlights how the Giants run game has been so important, and breaks down the matchup with the Denver Broncos.
:00 - Jaxson Dart’s play
5:18 - Dart’s athleticism
8:25 - The offensive system
15:45 - Offensive line and run game
18:17 - Broncos defense
23:00 - Broncos offense
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
It's time to get inside the Giants hut. Let's get
the Giants mobul, give me some joke. Part of the
Giants Podcast.
Speaker 2 (00:09):
Met with Welcome to another edition of the Johns Little Podcast,
brought to you by Citizens, the official bank of the Giants.
Speaker 1 (00:14):
I am John Schmelt.
Speaker 2 (00:15):
Joined today by longtime NFL quarterback Super Bowl champion Brian Hoyer.
Speaker 1 (00:20):
Brian, thanks for joining us, man. How are you hey, John?
Speaker 3 (00:23):
Thanks for having me.
Speaker 1 (00:24):
I'm good.
Speaker 3 (00:25):
I'm excited to talk about Jackson Dart. I self admittedly
had him as one of the higher rated quarterbacks coming out.
I know a few people weren't as high on him,
but the more I watched him on film, I thought
he was a first round pick. And when I saw
the Giants trade off for him, I thought it made
a lot of sense because to me, and I'm not
comparing him to this guy, but Brian day Ball had
experience with a young Josh Allen in Buffalo and that
(00:48):
I think that's when Josh really took off and became
the quarterback we see today, and I think day Ball
saw a little bit of that in Jackson Dart and
you can kind of see the comparisons, you know, Jackson
comes in and provides a spark to that Giants team.
And it's not all the passing, it's the running. And
I think he's hanging around camps scatterby a little too much. He's,
(01:08):
you know, like leading with his head. And my son,
of course, my son's an eighth grade football player, and
he loves Jackson Dark because he has what he calls
aura whatever. That means, nothing that I ever have when
I was playing. But my Son's trying to run guys
over now, and I'm like, where are you learning this from?
And he's like guys like Josh Allen, guys like Jackson
Dart and so it's a unique playing style. But I
(01:29):
think for a rookie quarterback, you come in the league,
you want to make something happen. The guys rally around that,
and he can see the energy that he's brought.
Speaker 2 (01:36):
Yeah, I will give Robert May's credit from The Athletic
Football Show. He said, right now, Jackson Dart and Cam'scaddo
a little too much similar styles of play.
Speaker 1 (01:44):
Right now, you want to kind of avoid that if
you're a quarterback. I agree. You talk about how he
liked him as a college prospect.
Speaker 2 (01:49):
How do you think so far what you saw on
his college tape has transferred over to what he's done
so far with the Giants.
Speaker 1 (01:55):
Brian. Yeah.
Speaker 3 (01:56):
The one thing you know when you watch like the
top guys, the one thing that I would say that
Jackson did the best, and you've seen it a little bit.
He was a guy who wanted to move up into
the pocket, whereas guys like the cam Ward, guys like
Shador I thought Jackson, Dart and Will Howard were the
ones who were most pro ready when it came to
pocket movement. And you've seen it and watching that game
(02:16):
last Thursday night, he had a lot of great plays,
but the one that really stuck out of my mind
is like, man, he's playing that's a professional throw. There
was a play Jahad Campbell I think, was coming free
on a blitz and he hung in there, stepped up
and hit THEO Johnson on a sail route and I
was like, that's that's a legit NFL play right there,
Like he's not trying to escape the thing about playing
quarterback in the NFL that's different from the collegiate level,
(02:38):
and I'm nowhere near I was nowhere near as athletic
as some of these guys play now, But if you
want to play quarterback, you got to hang in there
and take some hits and know my guy's going to
be open. Here comes the pressure. And that was probably
one of the more impressive throws for Jackson Darr last
Thursday night, and he showed that in the collegiate level,
and so to see that translating now he's getting, you know,
(02:59):
a few starts under his belt. That's what you want
to see. And I think day Ball is the right
guy to have to bring him along. It's okay, let's
have a few design runs. It's okay to scramble, but
let's keep developing that pocket presence and hanging in there
and hitting the guys when we know they're going to
be open.
Speaker 2 (03:14):
Yeah, and having that type of spidy sense right to
understand where the rushers are. There was one play against
the Eagles and I don't remember which edge rusher it was,
but he came kind of you know, he went around
the edge, came all the way around and it looked
like he was and a dart roll to his right.
It looked like he was by the thing that got
from behind and maybe stripped. But somehow dart senses him,
steps up in the pocket, gets back to his left
and avoids it. Brian, is that something that almost can't
(03:36):
be taught and something a quarterback has an innate feel
for just understanding their physical presence in the pocket versus
where the defenders are.
Speaker 3 (03:45):
Yeah, definitely. I think it's something that you develop over
time and the fact that he was doing it in college.
Now the speed is picking up, but he has a
feeling of the pocket. I think that's the biggest thing
with young quarterbacks. You want to feel the pocket and
not see it right. You don't want to put your
eyes down. The one thing that you've seen from him
is he's keeping his eyes up and there's a lot
of plays where he's moving around and extending the play
(04:06):
and a lot of the positive plays come off of that.
But I think the fact that he keeps his eyes
up and he's seeing what's around him, and you know
the touchdown to Wande Robinson, he moves around and he
finds him, his eyes are up, throws the ball, he
breaks a tackle, it's a touchdown, And I think that's
what look As he develops, you're gonna want to lean
on those types of plays, but also you want to
see more of the plays I just talked about where
(04:26):
he hangs in the pocket, he knows his guy's going
to be open, take a shot, complete the pass, keep
moving on, dude, I don't know. He's got to be
so sore when he wakes up on Monday mornings with
the day after the game, because playing quarterback, you're gonna
get hit enough as it is. And thankfully, you know
he's a muscular guy. I didn't realize you watch him
out there. I mean, he's he's juking Zach Bond, but
he's also running some of these guys over. Now, you
(04:49):
want to limit some of those hits obviously as you
go on. But I think that's something is a little
bit of a learning process. And I'm sure day Ball's
in there saying like, look, I love it, but we
got to make sure you can make it through the season,
so you don't stop hanging out with Skataboo. I'm sure
at some point we'll see Scataboo throw a ball like
he did in the college level. And you know, day
Ball has a bag of tricks that he can go to.
(05:09):
But if you're a Giants fan, you got to be
so excited about this injection of youth at these positions
and they're winning games. I mean, who would have thought
they're beaten the defending Super Bowl champs on Thursday night
with the whole country there to watch, And so that
can do a lot for your locker room, a lot
for your team the.
Speaker 1 (05:28):
End, no question about it. And it's funny.
Speaker 2 (05:30):
I knew he was a good college athlete, right you
can see him move around in college. I'll be honest
with you, Brian, I did not think his athleticism darts
would play as well as it has at the NFL level.
I mean, he's one of three quarterbacks that have more
than fifty rushing yards in his first three starts as
a quarterback. You know, the guys are Jalen Hurts and
Lamar Jackson, and I would not put him necessarily in
(05:51):
that category coming out of college, but what he's been
able to do with his legs has really been impressive.
Speaker 1 (05:56):
In you know this, it takes a long.
Speaker 2 (05:57):
Time for college guys to figure out the art of
playing quarterback, right. You know, reen defense is going to
your progressions all that stuff. But you can hide some
of that stuff and still succeed if you have bring
some of the athletic traits and his running has just
it's been a lot more effective than I thought it
was to the level that it has been early in
his NFL career.
Speaker 3 (06:14):
Yeah, I would agree with you. I mean the touchdown
run where he jukes that bond and then he pulls
away and I'm like, Okay, who's going to catch him?
And he really built speed and you know, I'm sure
you know maybe with next gen stats what his top
speed is, but he kind of does play like a
Jalen Hurts type of style of football. And when Jalen
gets out, you're like, okay, and all of a sudden
he's taken off and they guys can't catch him. He
doesn't look like Lamar, he doesn't look like Jayden, but
(06:36):
he's he's he's running past people. And that's where I think,
you know, day Ball is content right now with like
bringing him along and teaching him how to play quarterback
while allowing him to use his athleticism to extend the plays,
make the big plays. And I think you know that
that's why I said you look back to a young
Josh Allen. I remember a game in Minnesota. He's trying
to hurtle guys in the middle of the field and
taking shots from linebackers and safeties. And now he's gotten
(07:00):
to the point where he's the MVP of our league
because he does it when he has to, not because
he's always trying to do it. And so I think
with Jackson Dart, each week he'll learn a little bit more.
He'll understand coverage. I mean, day Ball is basically running
an offensive system that I'm very familiar with that he
brought from New England, has taken Alabama. It's it's molded adapted,
and I think the one thing I know about that
(07:21):
system is you need a guy who's smart at quarterback.
And so he's directing the line where the mic point
is and he'll continue to grow in that too. And
and by all accounts, and I'm sure you've seen it
because we all watched the Gruden quarterback camp, I thought
Jackson Dart was very well prepared when he did that. Now,
I know Gruden got on him for the clapping of
the cadence, but his cadence sounded pretty good out there
(07:42):
on Thursday night. And so he's coming along. And I
believe in in Dayball. And you know, Mike Kafka is
a guy I've known for a long time, played against
each other in the Big Ten, came across each other
during our careers. A very smart guy, has a little
bit of that Kansas City influence. So you got the
right guys in place, and now you've in interjected this
energy into into the team. I mean, I'm seeing mister
(08:04):
Moraw talking about you know, this is better than any
type of treatment I could get for cancers, beating the Eagles,
and so it just goes to show you that can
go a long way in an NFL. In an NFL
locker room, guys start to believe. I'm we're seeing it
up here in New England with Drake Manny. He's taken
four years of development in a leap in just three
hundred and sixty five days. A lot of it has
(08:25):
to do with Josh McDaniels being back, and you know,
no one closer than with Josh than Brian Daball. So
they have the right philosophies and now it's just about
going out and executing it.
Speaker 1 (08:34):
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Speaker 3 (08:44):
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Speaker 2 (08:49):
You mentioned the offensive system, how does and surprisingly both
of you and Dave's had two stints of knowing when
you missed each other both times by about one year.
But what is it about that system and how it
can work with jackson dart skills, and how it can
you can lean into some of the things you have
in it to help develop a young quarterback, And how
do you go about maybe giving him a little bit
(09:10):
more every week and just how you think he's going
to grow in that system.
Speaker 3 (09:14):
Yeah, I think from what I've seen, you know, Daves
is keeping it pretty simple as far as the route concepts.
I don't see a ton of alerts, but I know
that's part of it. You see it from time to time. Ultimately,
you want to put what's on the guy's plate, what
he can handle, and so right now, I think Dave
Ball is like, look, let's keep it simple. We'll run
our core concepts. If it's not there. We have a
(09:34):
guy who can extend the play and make plays with
his legs or by scrambling and throwing the football. And
I think each week the more comfortable he gets, you
add a little bit more, and you add a little
bit more. But the way I look, I played in
every offensive system. There is the one way I would
describe this offense you know that derives from New England,
is it really gives the power to the players and
(09:55):
ultimately to the quarterback to get in and out of
good plays, to see what the defenses do and make
those adjustments out on the field. Whereas you know other systems,
maybe like the West Coast, it's kind of like, hey,
I'm going to game plan really well and you just
go out and execute the plan and if something bad happens,
like you know, they got us well in this system
that day Ball and Josh McDaniels, the system that they run.
(10:18):
It's like, if you see a bad look, let's not
just run a bad play because they got us. Let's
see if we can get in and out of it
and get to the right play. And I think you'll
see that more and more as he becomes comfortable with
Dart and knows what he feels comfortable out there executing
on the field. But it is I mean, look, offenses
are like family trees and everybody has their own branch
(10:38):
and so I think the cool thing about day Ball
and his experiences. He goes down to Alabama and coaches
in the collegiate level for a little bit, and there's
the zone read and the run game and the RPO,
and then he takes it to Buffalo and now becomes
the head coach in New York. And look, I don't
know how you guys feel about it, but Danny Dimes
looks pretty good over there in Indie and day Ball's
(10:59):
first year, Daniel Jones looked like a really good player.
He dealt with some injuries, could really not get back.
But I think Dave Ball knows how to utilize a
guy with Jackson Dart's skill type. The guy can run.
You can call some design runs for him. Now, I
don't think you want to be doing ten a game.
Speaker 1 (11:14):
You want to let him.
Speaker 3 (11:15):
Play quarterback, but as of right now, you gotta do
what you gotta do whin the football games. So it's
a good mix. And I think the more Jackson Dark
gets comfortable of playing quarterback, you'll see him excel at
that role too.
Speaker 2 (11:29):
How sustainable Brian is kind of this way that Jackson's playing,
the way I've kind of called him as a playmaker
where he's not quite playing quarterback yet.
Speaker 1 (11:36):
But he's just making plays out there.
Speaker 2 (11:38):
How long can this work or will we eventually see
a diminishing return on this style?
Speaker 1 (11:44):
Yeah?
Speaker 3 (11:44):
I think first of all, the diminishing return. We've seen
a lot of young quarterbacks get hurt this year, right
JJ McCarthy Jayden Daniels like, how long is it sustainable?
These guys are are bigger and faster than anything that
they've experienced in their collegiate career. You're gonna get You're
gonna take some hits, and so on. I would say
the health issue would be a sustainable question that you're
(12:05):
going to have. And then ultimately teams are going to say, Okay,
what we have to do with this guy is have
a disciplined rush and don't let him get outside the pocket.
So you're gonna find and maybe it's the Denver Broncos
this week who say, look, we all know we want
to get sacks, but if we get out of our
rush lanes, that's the one chance that Dart's going to
(12:25):
turn into a playmaker. Let's let's just rush, keep him
in the pocket, and let's see if he can play quarterback.
I think that's what good defensive coaches are going to
look at the film and say, the only way this
guy is going to beat us right now is if
we give him the access to get outside the pocket
and make some of these scramble plays. And then it'll
come down to, all right, Jackson, how fast can you
(12:45):
progress as a dropback quarterback staying in the pocket and
picking apart these defenses when they're not letting you escape
the pocket. So you know it's hard. You don't want
to coach it out of them. And he's got to
have a feel. And I'm not going to draw the
comparisons to Drake, but Drake where he's excelled so much
up here at New England is he has a really
good feel now of when he knows to stay in
(13:07):
the pocket because he has the right matchup to throw
the ball, and also he knows when it's time to
pull it down. And so I think that's always the
struggle for a young quarterback who is capable of getting
outside the pocket and making the plays like Jackson, Okay,
take it when it's there, but don't force it.
Speaker 2 (13:22):
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away game watchparty dot com. By November first, Brian, you
talked about trying to make him read out the defense.
I think there was one play last week. I think
(13:42):
it was a third down. He looks left, little Jordan
Humphrey's not there in a little stop route. He gets
back to his right, he hits won the Robinson on
time on a crosser that was kind of the one
player around, like all right, he got to one side,
got back to the other on time, made the play.
We haven't seen a ton of that. But how have
you seen him Jackson in terms of seeing the field.
I've seen some plays where there had been some guys
open down the field and he hasn't necessarily gotten the
(14:03):
ball out to him and is run instead.
Speaker 1 (14:05):
How have you seen that part of his game developed?
Speaker 3 (14:06):
Yeah, I would agree with you. I remember watching that
throw to Robinson back on the crosser, and I think
the one thing about this offense too, and I'm sure
this is how Day ball is treating it. You know,
you have progression reads, you have coverage reads, you have
man versus zone reads, and so I think with dayball,
the best thing he's doing is probably keeping it in
the progression read kind of scheme, because what that tells
(14:28):
you is a right Jackson, we're gonna go left to
right on this, and the first guy who's open, that's
who you're throwing the ball to.
Speaker 1 (14:33):
It.
Speaker 3 (14:33):
If it's not there, okay, then do what you gotta do.
And I think you see the aspect of him being
able to do that. But I think, like you said,
like I said, there's times where you can tell he
gets a little answer and he's like, all right, let
me get outside. Because the one thing that people have
to understand as a quarterback, all of us would love
to get outside the pocket. There's no one in front
of you, You see everything. You don't have to read
(14:56):
coverage with ten guys in front of you. So he'll
get to the point where it's like, okay, it's a
progression read number two. Number one's not there, number two's there, Boom,
give them the ball, Let's keep moving the sticks. Let's
not try to turn every play into an extension and
try to make this heroic play. Sometimes you can just
play football and take what they give you. Try to
keep it in I manageable situations. But I did see
(15:18):
I remember on Thursday night game, coming out of halftime,
they interviewed Dayball. He's like, yeah, you know, we want
to just stay on track. Skip third down. Well, that's
a great way to do it for a young quarterback,
right hit some of these plays skip their down that way,
You're not getting into these You know, third down is
the hardest situation in football until you get down in
the red area because now you've got to be able
to keep the offense out there. If you can skip
their down by getting a first down on first or
(15:40):
second down, now you don't have to worry about it.
It's kind of behind you. And so I think Dave
Ball is doing a good job of giving those types
of reads to them. And now if you're a Jackson
darr you just got to trust it and when you
see the first guy who's open, get it to them
and keep moving those chains.
Speaker 2 (15:54):
All right, And I'm going to get to the matchup
with the Broncos the second. But I really think the
run game in Scataboo has really helped Dart here too,
by the way, So.
Speaker 1 (16:01):
It's the return of Andrew Thomas.
Speaker 2 (16:03):
The Giant's offensive line has played better the last three
weeks that it has in a couple of years. But
they ran the ball over forty times in Dart's first win.
They ran the ball thirty nine times in darts second
when now some of those are quarterbacks scrambles, I know,
but when you can run more than you pass for
a young quarterback, Brian, how does that help a guy
when not everything is on him and you're in either
(16:24):
third and reasonable or you're not even getting the third
down at all.
Speaker 3 (16:26):
Yeah, any quarterback who says he doesn't want to run
the balls lying to you, I promise, because running the
football makes it easier on everybody. Makes it easier on
the offensive line, it makes it easier on the receivers,
it makes it easier on the quarterback because once the
defense has to commit to stopping the run, it's when
you're gonna hit some of these play action passes or
even get some single high coverages where you don't have
as many people in the back end of the defense.
(16:47):
And so I think the one thing that they have
going for him, as you mentioned before Cam Scattyby, who
brings a toughness factor where if you're a defense and
you're coming in to play the Giants, you're like, man,
we gotta get in the box to stop this guy.
He's going to run some of these people over. The
first guy isn't going to be able to bring them down.
So when that the defense has to commit more defenders
to the run game, it makes it simpler when it
(17:08):
gets to the passing game. And so having Skataboo kind
of have this coming out party, so to speak. Defenses
have to honor that. And now that gives you a
little bit more one on one matchups on the outside.
And also it allows you to hit some of these
play action passes off of the run and that really
becomes you know, it takes a lot off the quarterbacks played.
(17:30):
And let's not forget the team that won the Super
Bowl last year ran the ball more than any other
team in the NFL. And granted they had Saquon and Jalen,
but you could kind of have your own poor man's
version of Jalen Hurts and Saquon Barkley with Jackson Dart
and Cam Scataboo right, because they're both threats to run
the football. Now, defenses have to commit, and I know
the Giants don't have a j Brown and DeVonta Smith
(17:51):
on the outside, but you have some guys that can
make some plays and make it to one on one.
Look little little Jordan Humphrey as a guy I played with.
He's a big, tall tar and Jackson threw it up
to him last week. He boxed the defender out and
he can go get that. So you're gonna have those opportunities.
I think Theo Johnson will be a guy who really
benefits from the run game because knowing this offensive system.
(18:12):
You go back to Gronkowski or even now in New
England with Hunter Henry, a lot of their production comes
off of the play action game. So I'm sure day Ball,
especially come in from coaching tight ends in New England,
is gonna want to be able to use that that
type of concept for the Giants.
Speaker 1 (18:27):
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All right, let's get to the matchup here.
Speaker 2 (18:44):
And we were talking before we started, Brian, this is
probably gonna be the best, you know, the toughest test
that Darts faced. We thought the Eagles last week could
be really tough with then Gil and cardinis't play Quinny,
Mitchell coubles out early, and they already had issues at cornerback.
So it turned out to find your one on one
matchup and just kind of take it and of it,
which work. You're not gonna be able to do that
against the Broncos this week. The other thing about I
(19:05):
think that's been constant with the teams the Giants that
face the been heavy z own teams, Right Saints, heavy
z Own team Chargers, heavy z Own team Eagles last week,
Heavy's Own team Chargers. I mean, the Broncos rather play
a ton of man and they have good corners. And
you mentioned normal league nighbors, the Giants wideouts. You're not
rolling out a bunch of guys that can just one
one on one matchup. So what do you think this
matchup looks like for for Dart? How does Dable get
(19:27):
and CAFTA get him ready for it, and what's the
game plan to try to have success against what's probably
the best defensive football.
Speaker 3 (19:33):
Yeah, it's a toughy. I mean, look what they did
to the Jets in London. I mean it was as
an offensive player, I hated watching that game because it
was a defensive Let me get to the one o'clock games,
because this is brutal.
Speaker 1 (19:45):
But you're right.
Speaker 3 (19:46):
I mean, look, they have a very formidable pass rush.
They can lock you down on the outside, and so
to me, the game plans gotta be you got to
try to run the football, make them commit, and maybe
use THEEO. Johnson as your matchup because outside that is
not going to be where you want to go, especially
in man covers. Now, the one thing that can always
help against man covers as a quarterback who can run
(20:07):
because they don't always account for him, right if they're
out there covering. So I would look to see, you
know early on, is there a spy for Jackson darda
they play a man coverage and instead of that extra
guy helping in coverage, is he's spying Jackson? So when
he goes to take off, he goes to to you know,
get after him. So it's going to be the toughest
task by far. The best thing that the Giants can
(20:27):
do is establish a running game and not try to
make it one dimensional, because if you try to get
into a passing matchup with the Broncos Nick Benito Cooper,
they're going to be pinning their ears back to rush
and the guys outside are going to lock down your
receivers because Patrick's certains, you know, the best corner of football.
Like you mentioned, you don't have neighbors. If you have neighbors,
at least it equalizes a little bit. Now, I think
(20:50):
the game plan has to be let's stay ahead of
down in distance, Let's run the football, and let's see
if we can get some explosive plays in the past
game off of the play action pass.
Speaker 2 (20:59):
Now you kind of make this earlier, how teams might
just start trying to crush the pocket, right, Well, the
Broncos too outside rushes. They're speed guys, right, they want
to went outside with Cooper and but you know they're undersize.
Does Dart's ability to run take something away from that
outside pass rush a little bit? Because you don't want
to get too far outside the pocket and create those
running lanes.
Speaker 1 (21:18):
Yeah, exactly.
Speaker 3 (21:18):
And that's when you have like these elite pass rushers
who want to get sacks. How do you coach them
and say, look, that's great, but if you run by them,
now he gets out here making it easier on him.
And I remember, you know, all those years in New England,
we'd sit in those team meetings and we'd be playing
an elusive quarterback and Bill Belichick, we get up there
and say, look, I know you guys want to get sacks,
but this week we have to play team defense. You
(21:41):
have to stay in your rush lanes because if you
go up the field and the quarterback squirts out to
the right and we don't have anyone there, it's the
only way he's going to be able to beat us.
Speaker 2 (21:50):
Right.
Speaker 3 (21:50):
So, I think if you're the if you're the Giants,
you're hoping for these guys to just scream up the
field and give Darts some of these lanes to go
out and make a play with his legs. If you're
the Broncos, youve got to be preaching all week. We
have to keep this guy in the pocket and make
them play quarterback and complete passes against man coverage. It's
going to be very difficult for him, So see if
they can be disciplined.
Speaker 2 (22:11):
And do that. Yeah, it's funny you mentioned the spy
that play that you were talking about last week. Zach
Bond was spying Jackson Dart on that play. That was
his responsibility and Dart shook him. Anyway, Well, teams have
to start spying him with a safety like do you
have to change the type of spy you're using if
Dark shows his mobility maybe is too much for the linebackers.
Speaker 3 (22:27):
Yeah, I mean it's definitely one of those things. You've
seen it with a lot of guys. You know, Jayden
Daniels gets that treatment a lot. And the one thing
is when they start to scramble and that spy comes
out of you know, coverage basically like where he's waiting
for him to commit, Now you do open up some
of the lanes behind him. So look, I wouldn't want
to be a spy having to treat some of these
athletic quarterbacks because you're kind of damned if you do.
(22:49):
Damned if you don't, Like, once he commits to the
line of scrimmage, you got to go tackle him. But
if he's still behind the line of scrimmage and can
throw it to now the spot that you vacated. That
becomes a dilemma, which is why I think, you know,
this is the type of quarterback the NFL is trending
to get to. Is a guy like Jackson Dart, a
guy like Josh Josh Allen Drake may justin Herbert Mahomes
(23:10):
because it puts the defense in such a bind.
Speaker 1 (23:13):
All right, let's flip it.
Speaker 2 (23:14):
You know, bon Nix has had a slower start to
his second year than he had to his first. Still
a lot of short passes, They get the ball out quick,
they move the pocket a lot with him. The Giants
similar deal, right, they have speed rushers. They want to
get up the field and rush to pass there. What
do you think about Nix and how Sean Payton wants
to run that offense worth versus how the Giants are
trying to get to the quarterback and Shane Bon's defense?
Speaker 3 (23:34):
Yeah, I mean, are we talked about the Denver Broncos
pass rush. I mean, is there a better pass rush
after them than the New York Giants. These guys get
after the quarterback and do a tremendous job, but they
have to be disciplined as well, because bon Knicks very similar.
He may not run the ball like Jackson Dart with
the power, but he has the ability to use his
legs and he's going to keep his eyes up and
try to throw the ball first and then he can run.
So you have to be disciplined in that pass rush.
(23:57):
I love the additions that the Giants made in the
offseason with a Debo and Javon Holland. I mean, two
guys that I always respected when I played against him,
and so you're seeing the defense come along. It's gonna
be a challenge because they have some big receivers outside
the tight ends like to be involved. I mean, it's
a Sean Payton offense. You know what you're gonna get.
He's gonna have those first fifteen scripted and they're gonna
(24:18):
be a screen, an outside zone running, inside zone runner.
I mean, he's gonna keep you guessing. So you have
to stay disciplined and you have to try to make
bo Nicks beat you with his arm. Don't don't let
him get outside the pocket. So a very similar game plan,
I would say, if you're the New York Giants defense
of what the Broncos defense is going to try to
do to Jackson Dark.
Speaker 2 (24:35):
All right, final question you mentioned you know what you're
getting with the with the Sean Payn offense. How does
a Sean paying offense try to attack? Are they trying
to stretch horizontally vertically? I know he tries to do
a lot of different things. Is screen games great? If
you're a defense you're getting ready for Sean Payton. What
are some of the telltale signs that Giant fans should
get ready for that.
Speaker 1 (24:52):
A Sean Payn offense is going to show the Giants defense.
Speaker 3 (24:55):
Yeah, in a very similar fashion to like the Patriots system.
I would say Sean Payton system is very similar. You're
going to see a lot of kill kill plays Like
we can all see Drew Brees and if we close
our eyes, kill kill. He's trying to get to the
perfect play, right, and he's trying to keep you on
edge and he's trying to make you defend everything. And
so you're gonna see a lot of those plays where
it's an outside zone to the left and they come
(25:16):
back with a half roll and it's a boot play,
and then they go back to a screen and now
it's a run.
Speaker 1 (25:20):
It's a draw.
Speaker 3 (25:21):
He's going to try to make you defend every blade
of grass and the best way at least I can remember,
you know, when we would go against those offenses. I
could hear Bill in my mind. Look, you just have
to be disciplined, don't fool for the fakes. Just read
your keys and respond. And I think the biggest thing,
like I said before, is that pass rush. Just stay disciplined,
don't try to get out of your gap because you
(25:42):
think you have a sack now all of a sudden.
It gives bo Nix the ability to get outside the
pocket and see what's down the field as opposed to
crushing the pocket, making them let's see if he can
pick you apart and get down the field, as opposed
to maybe a big explosive play when he gets outside
of the pocket.
Speaker 1 (25:57):
You can find Brian Hoyer on Serious XM. Brian.
Speaker 2 (25:59):
What else do you going on? Where can the folks
find you? What are you up to in your post
playing career?
Speaker 3 (26:03):
Yeah? I got a podcasts up here in New England.
Not that many Giants fans are going on to tune
into that, but I do. With David Andrews, he's a
former center of the Patriots, and we've known each other
for a long time. Also do a few things around
the New England Patriots with their local media, but Sirius
XM is the one area you can find me covering
all things of NFL. The Opening Drive with Solomon Willotts
on Thursday morning seven to ten.
Speaker 2 (26:25):
Hey Giants, get the Patriots, lady he or maybe we
can get together and do a little preview before that
game right now.
Speaker 3 (26:29):
Well, teams are hot right now. I would love to
do it, and maybe we're both vying for playoffs spots
when it comes to that point of the season. So
looking forward to it.
Speaker 1 (26:37):
Brian, good stuff, appreciate the time, my friend. All right,
take care Brian Hoy and the Johns.
Speaker 2 (26:40):
Little Podcast brought to you by Citizen's Official.
Speaker 1 (26:42):
Bank of the Giants. We'll see you next time. Everybody,
It's time to get inside the Giants hut. Let's get
the Giants mobul, give me some joke. Part of the
Giants Podcast.
Speaker 2 (00:09):
Met with Welcome to another edition of the Johns Little Podcast,
brought to you by Citizens, the official bank of the Giants.
Speaker 1 (00:14):
I am John Schmelt.
Speaker 2 (00:15):
Joined today by longtime NFL quarterback Super Bowl champion Brian Hoyer.
Speaker 1 (00:20):
Brian, thanks for joining us, man. How are you hey, John?
Speaker 3 (00:23):
Thanks for having me.
Speaker 1 (00:24):
I'm good.
Speaker 3 (00:25):
I'm excited to talk about Jackson Dart. I self admittedly
had him as one of the higher rated quarterbacks coming out.
I know a few people weren't as high on him,
but the more I watched him on film, I thought
he was a first round pick. And when I saw
the Giants trade off for him, I thought it made
a lot of sense because to me, and I'm not
comparing him to this guy, but Brian day Ball had
experience with a young Josh Allen in Buffalo and that
(00:48):
I think that's when Josh really took off and became
the quarterback we see today, and I think day Ball
saw a little bit of that in Jackson Dart and
you can kind of see the comparisons, you know, Jackson
comes in and provides a spark to that Giants team.
And it's not all the passing, it's the running. And
I think he's hanging around camps scatterby a little too much. He's,
(01:08):
you know, like leading with his head. And my son,
of course, my son's an eighth grade football player, and
he loves Jackson Dark because he has what he calls
aura whatever. That means, nothing that I ever have when
I was playing. But my Son's trying to run guys
over now, and I'm like, where are you learning this from?
And he's like guys like Josh Allen, guys like Jackson
Dart and so it's a unique playing style. But I
(01:29):
think for a rookie quarterback, you come in the league,
you want to make something happen. The guys rally around that,
and he can see the energy that he's brought.
Speaker 2 (01:36):
Yeah, I will give Robert May's credit from The Athletic
Football Show. He said, right now, Jackson Dart and Cam'scaddo
a little too much similar styles of play.
Speaker 1 (01:44):
Right now, you want to kind of avoid that if
you're a quarterback. I agree. You talk about how he
liked him as a college prospect.
Speaker 2 (01:49):
How do you think so far what you saw on
his college tape has transferred over to what he's done
so far with the Giants.
Speaker 1 (01:55):
Brian. Yeah.
Speaker 3 (01:56):
The one thing you know when you watch like the
top guys, the one thing that I would say that
Jackson did the best, and you've seen it a little bit.
He was a guy who wanted to move up into
the pocket, whereas guys like the cam Ward, guys like
Shador I thought Jackson, Dart and Will Howard were the
ones who were most pro ready when it came to
pocket movement. And you've seen it and watching that game
(02:16):
last Thursday night, he had a lot of great plays,
but the one that really stuck out of my mind
is like, man, he's playing that's a professional throw. There
was a play Jahad Campbell I think, was coming free
on a blitz and he hung in there, stepped up
and hit THEO Johnson on a sail route and I
was like, that's that's a legit NFL play right there,
Like he's not trying to escape the thing about playing
quarterback in the NFL that's different from the collegiate level,
(02:38):
and I'm nowhere near I was nowhere near as athletic
as some of these guys play now, But if you
want to play quarterback, you got to hang in there
and take some hits and know my guy's going to
be open. Here comes the pressure. And that was probably
one of the more impressive throws for Jackson Darr last
Thursday night, and he showed that in the collegiate level,
and so to see that translating now he's getting, you know,
(02:59):
a few starts under his belt. That's what you want
to see. And I think day Ball is the right
guy to have to bring him along. It's okay, let's
have a few design runs. It's okay to scramble, but
let's keep developing that pocket presence and hanging in there
and hitting the guys when we know they're going to
be open.
Speaker 2 (03:14):
Yeah, and having that type of spidy sense right to
understand where the rushers are. There was one play against
the Eagles and I don't remember which edge rusher it was,
but he came kind of you know, he went around
the edge, came all the way around and it looked
like he was and a dart roll to his right.
It looked like he was by the thing that got
from behind and maybe stripped. But somehow dart senses him,
steps up in the pocket, gets back to his left
and avoids it. Brian, is that something that almost can't
(03:36):
be taught and something a quarterback has an innate feel
for just understanding their physical presence in the pocket versus
where the defenders are.
Speaker 3 (03:45):
Yeah, definitely. I think it's something that you develop over
time and the fact that he was doing it in college.
Now the speed is picking up, but he has a
feeling of the pocket. I think that's the biggest thing
with young quarterbacks. You want to feel the pocket and
not see it right. You don't want to put your
eyes down. The one thing that you've seen from him
is he's keeping his eyes up and there's a lot
of plays where he's moving around and extending the play
(04:06):
and a lot of the positive plays come off of that.
But I think the fact that he keeps his eyes
up and he's seeing what's around him, and you know
the touchdown to Wande Robinson, he moves around and he
finds him, his eyes are up, throws the ball, he
breaks a tackle, it's a touchdown, And I think that's
what look As he develops, you're gonna want to lean
on those types of plays, but also you want to
see more of the plays I just talked about where
(04:26):
he hangs in the pocket, he knows his guy's going
to be open, take a shot, complete the pass, keep
moving on, dude, I don't know. He's got to be
so sore when he wakes up on Monday mornings with
the day after the game, because playing quarterback, you're gonna
get hit enough as it is. And thankfully, you know
he's a muscular guy. I didn't realize you watch him
out there. I mean, he's he's juking Zach Bond, but
he's also running some of these guys over. Now, you
(04:49):
want to limit some of those hits obviously as you
go on. But I think that's something is a little
bit of a learning process. And I'm sure day Ball's
in there saying like, look, I love it, but we
got to make sure you can make it through the season,
so you don't stop hanging out with Skataboo. I'm sure
at some point we'll see Scataboo throw a ball like
he did in the college level. And you know, day
Ball has a bag of tricks that he can go to.
(05:09):
But if you're a Giants fan, you got to be
so excited about this injection of youth at these positions
and they're winning games. I mean, who would have thought
they're beaten the defending Super Bowl champs on Thursday night
with the whole country there to watch, And so that
can do a lot for your locker room, a lot
for your team the.
Speaker 1 (05:28):
End, no question about it. And it's funny.
Speaker 2 (05:30):
I knew he was a good college athlete, right you
can see him move around in college. I'll be honest
with you, Brian, I did not think his athleticism darts
would play as well as it has at the NFL level.
I mean, he's one of three quarterbacks that have more
than fifty rushing yards in his first three starts as
a quarterback. You know, the guys are Jalen Hurts and
Lamar Jackson, and I would not put him necessarily in
(05:51):
that category coming out of college, but what he's been
able to do with his legs has really been impressive.
Speaker 1 (05:56):
In you know this, it takes a long.
Speaker 2 (05:57):
Time for college guys to figure out the art of
playing quarterback, right. You know, reen defense is going to
your progressions all that stuff. But you can hide some
of that stuff and still succeed if you have bring
some of the athletic traits and his running has just
it's been a lot more effective than I thought it
was to the level that it has been early in
his NFL career.
Speaker 3 (06:14):
Yeah, I would agree with you. I mean the touchdown
run where he jukes that bond and then he pulls
away and I'm like, Okay, who's going to catch him?
And he really built speed and you know, I'm sure
you know maybe with next gen stats what his top
speed is, but he kind of does play like a
Jalen Hurts type of style of football. And when Jalen
gets out, you're like, okay, and all of a sudden
he's taken off and they guys can't catch him. He
doesn't look like Lamar, he doesn't look like Jayden, but
(06:36):
he's he's he's running past people. And that's where I think,
you know, day Ball is content right now with like
bringing him along and teaching him how to play quarterback
while allowing him to use his athleticism to extend the plays,
make the big plays. And I think you know that
that's why I said you look back to a young
Josh Allen. I remember a game in Minnesota. He's trying
to hurtle guys in the middle of the field and
taking shots from linebackers and safeties. And now he's gotten
(07:00):
to the point where he's the MVP of our league
because he does it when he has to, not because
he's always trying to do it. And so I think
with Jackson Dart, each week he'll learn a little bit more.
He'll understand coverage. I mean, day Ball is basically running
an offensive system that I'm very familiar with that he
brought from New England, has taken Alabama. It's it's molded adapted,
and I think the one thing I know about that
(07:21):
system is you need a guy who's smart at quarterback.
And so he's directing the line where the mic point
is and he'll continue to grow in that too. And
and by all accounts, and I'm sure you've seen it
because we all watched the Gruden quarterback camp, I thought
Jackson Dart was very well prepared when he did that. Now,
I know Gruden got on him for the clapping of
the cadence, but his cadence sounded pretty good out there
(07:42):
on Thursday night. And so he's coming along. And I
believe in in Dayball. And you know, Mike Kafka is
a guy I've known for a long time, played against
each other in the Big Ten, came across each other
during our careers. A very smart guy, has a little
bit of that Kansas City influence. So you got the
right guys in place, and now you've in interjected this
energy into into the team. I mean, I'm seeing mister
(08:04):
Moraw talking about you know, this is better than any
type of treatment I could get for cancers, beating the Eagles,
and so it just goes to show you that can
go a long way in an NFL. In an NFL
locker room, guys start to believe. I'm we're seeing it
up here in New England with Drake Manny. He's taken
four years of development in a leap in just three
hundred and sixty five days. A lot of it has
(08:25):
to do with Josh McDaniels being back, and you know,
no one closer than with Josh than Brian Daball. So
they have the right philosophies and now it's just about
going out and executing it.
Speaker 1 (08:34):
Howd up get in here? If you're lined up here,
you gotta go over the middle with at the score great,
how do we make that happen? I don't know, but
citizen does.
Speaker 3 (08:44):
It makes sense of your money with citizens official Bank
of Eli Manning.
Speaker 2 (08:49):
You mentioned the offensive system, how does and surprisingly both
of you and Dave's had two stints of knowing when
you missed each other both times by about one year.
But what is it about that system and how it
can work with jackson dart skills, and how it can
you can lean into some of the things you have
in it to help develop a young quarterback, And how
do you go about maybe giving him a little bit
(09:10):
more every week and just how you think he's going
to grow in that system.
Speaker 3 (09:14):
Yeah, I think from what I've seen, you know, Daves
is keeping it pretty simple as far as the route concepts.
I don't see a ton of alerts, but I know
that's part of it. You see it from time to time. Ultimately,
you want to put what's on the guy's plate, what
he can handle, and so right now, I think Dave
Ball is like, look, let's keep it simple. We'll run
our core concepts. If it's not there. We have a
(09:34):
guy who can extend the play and make plays with
his legs or by scrambling and throwing the football. And
I think each week the more comfortable he gets, you
add a little bit more, and you add a little
bit more. But the way I look, I played in
every offensive system. There is the one way I would
describe this offense you know that derives from New England,
is it really gives the power to the players and
(09:55):
ultimately to the quarterback to get in and out of
good plays, to see what the defenses do and make
those adjustments out on the field. Whereas you know other systems,
maybe like the West Coast, it's kind of like, hey,
I'm going to game plan really well and you just
go out and execute the plan and if something bad happens,
like you know, they got us well in this system
that day Ball and Josh McDaniels, the system that they run.
(10:18):
It's like, if you see a bad look, let's not
just run a bad play because they got us. Let's
see if we can get in and out of it
and get to the right play. And I think you'll
see that more and more as he becomes comfortable with
Dart and knows what he feels comfortable out there executing
on the field. But it is I mean, look, offenses
are like family trees and everybody has their own branch
(10:38):
and so I think the cool thing about day Ball
and his experiences. He goes down to Alabama and coaches
in the collegiate level for a little bit, and there's
the zone read and the run game and the RPO,
and then he takes it to Buffalo and now becomes
the head coach in New York. And look, I don't
know how you guys feel about it, but Danny Dimes
looks pretty good over there in Indie and day Ball's
(10:59):
first year, Daniel Jones looked like a really good player.
He dealt with some injuries, could really not get back.
But I think Dave Ball knows how to utilize a
guy with Jackson Dart's skill type. The guy can run.
You can call some design runs for him. Now, I
don't think you want to be doing ten a game.
Speaker 1 (11:14):
You want to let him.
Speaker 3 (11:15):
Play quarterback, but as of right now, you gotta do
what you gotta do whin the football games. So it's
a good mix. And I think the more Jackson Dark
gets comfortable of playing quarterback, you'll see him excel at
that role too.
Speaker 2 (11:29):
How sustainable Brian is kind of this way that Jackson's playing,
the way I've kind of called him as a playmaker
where he's not quite playing quarterback yet.
Speaker 1 (11:36):
But he's just making plays out there.
Speaker 2 (11:38):
How long can this work or will we eventually see
a diminishing return on this style?
Speaker 1 (11:44):
Yeah?
Speaker 3 (11:44):
I think first of all, the diminishing return. We've seen
a lot of young quarterbacks get hurt this year, right
JJ McCarthy Jayden Daniels like, how long is it sustainable?
These guys are are bigger and faster than anything that
they've experienced in their collegiate career. You're gonna get You're
gonna take some hits, and so on. I would say
the health issue would be a sustainable question that you're
(12:05):
going to have. And then ultimately teams are going to say, Okay,
what we have to do with this guy is have
a disciplined rush and don't let him get outside the pocket.
So you're gonna find and maybe it's the Denver Broncos
this week who say, look, we all know we want
to get sacks, but if we get out of our
rush lanes, that's the one chance that Dart's going to
(12:25):
turn into a playmaker. Let's let's just rush, keep him
in the pocket, and let's see if he can play quarterback.
I think that's what good defensive coaches are going to
look at the film and say, the only way this
guy is going to beat us right now is if
we give him the access to get outside the pocket
and make some of these scramble plays. And then it'll
come down to, all right, Jackson, how fast can you
(12:45):
progress as a dropback quarterback staying in the pocket and
picking apart these defenses when they're not letting you escape
the pocket. So you know it's hard. You don't want
to coach it out of them. And he's got to
have a feel. And I'm not going to draw the
comparisons to Drake, but Drake where he's excelled so much
up here at New England is he has a really
good feel now of when he knows to stay in
(13:07):
the pocket because he has the right matchup to throw
the ball, and also he knows when it's time to
pull it down. And so I think that's always the
struggle for a young quarterback who is capable of getting
outside the pocket and making the plays like Jackson, Okay,
take it when it's there, but don't force it.
Speaker 2 (13:22):
Johnson podcast is brought to you by Citizens, the official
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Giants ROADI game at MetLife Stadium with a special appearance
by Eli Manning courtesy of Citizens, the Official bank of
Eli Manning and the Giants. For details to enter, visit
away game watchparty dot com. By November first, Brian, you
talked about trying to make him read out the defense.
I think there was one play last week. I think
(13:42):
it was a third down. He looks left, little Jordan
Humphrey's not there in a little stop route. He gets
back to his right, he hits won the Robinson on
time on a crosser that was kind of the one
player around, like all right, he got to one side,
got back to the other on time, made the play.
We haven't seen a ton of that. But how have
you seen him Jackson in terms of seeing the field.
I've seen some plays where there had been some guys
open down the field and he hasn't necessarily gotten the
(14:03):
ball out to him and is run instead.
Speaker 1 (14:05):
How have you seen that part of his game developed?
Speaker 3 (14:06):
Yeah, I would agree with you. I remember watching that
throw to Robinson back on the crosser, and I think
the one thing about this offense too, and I'm sure
this is how Day ball is treating it. You know,
you have progression reads, you have coverage reads, you have
man versus zone reads, and so I think with dayball,
the best thing he's doing is probably keeping it in
the progression read kind of scheme, because what that tells
(14:28):
you is a right Jackson, we're gonna go left to
right on this, and the first guy who's open, that's
who you're throwing the ball to.
Speaker 1 (14:33):
It.
Speaker 3 (14:33):
If it's not there, okay, then do what you gotta do.
And I think you see the aspect of him being
able to do that. But I think, like you said,
like I said, there's times where you can tell he
gets a little answer and he's like, all right, let
me get outside. Because the one thing that people have
to understand as a quarterback, all of us would love
to get outside the pocket. There's no one in front
of you, You see everything. You don't have to read
(14:56):
coverage with ten guys in front of you. So he'll
get to the point where it's like, okay, it's a
progression read number two. Number one's not there, number two's there, Boom,
give them the ball, Let's keep moving the sticks. Let's
not try to turn every play into an extension and
try to make this heroic play. Sometimes you can just
play football and take what they give you. Try to
keep it in I manageable situations. But I did see
(15:18):
I remember on Thursday night game, coming out of halftime,
they interviewed Dayball. He's like, yeah, you know, we want
to just stay on track. Skip third down. Well, that's
a great way to do it for a young quarterback,
right hit some of these plays skip their down that way,
You're not getting into these You know, third down is
the hardest situation in football until you get down in
the red area because now you've got to be able
to keep the offense out there. If you can skip
their down by getting a first down on first or
(15:40):
second down, now you don't have to worry about it.
It's kind of behind you. And so I think Dave
Ball is doing a good job of giving those types
of reads to them. And now if you're a Jackson
darr you just got to trust it and when you
see the first guy who's open, get it to them
and keep moving those chains.
Speaker 2 (15:54):
All right, And I'm going to get to the matchup
with the Broncos the second. But I really think the
run game in Scataboo has really helped Dart here too,
by the way, So.
Speaker 1 (16:01):
It's the return of Andrew Thomas.
Speaker 2 (16:03):
The Giant's offensive line has played better the last three
weeks that it has in a couple of years. But
they ran the ball over forty times in Dart's first win.
They ran the ball thirty nine times in darts second
when now some of those are quarterbacks scrambles, I know,
but when you can run more than you pass for
a young quarterback, Brian, how does that help a guy
when not everything is on him and you're in either
(16:24):
third and reasonable or you're not even getting the third
down at all.
Speaker 3 (16:26):
Yeah, any quarterback who says he doesn't want to run
the balls lying to you, I promise, because running the
football makes it easier on everybody. Makes it easier on
the offensive line, it makes it easier on the receivers,
it makes it easier on the quarterback because once the
defense has to commit to stopping the run, it's when
you're gonna hit some of these play action passes or
even get some single high coverages where you don't have
as many people in the back end of the defense.
(16:47):
And so I think the one thing that they have
going for him, as you mentioned before Cam Scattyby, who
brings a toughness factor where if you're a defense and
you're coming in to play the Giants, you're like, man,
we gotta get in the box to stop this guy.
He's going to run some of these people over. The
first guy isn't going to be able to bring them down.
So when that the defense has to commit more defenders
to the run game, it makes it simpler when it
(17:08):
gets to the passing game. And so having Skataboo kind
of have this coming out party, so to speak. Defenses
have to honor that. And now that gives you a
little bit more one on one matchups on the outside.
And also it allows you to hit some of these
play action passes off of the run and that really
becomes you know, it takes a lot off the quarterbacks played.
(17:30):
And let's not forget the team that won the Super
Bowl last year ran the ball more than any other
team in the NFL. And granted they had Saquon and Jalen,
but you could kind of have your own poor man's
version of Jalen Hurts and Saquon Barkley with Jackson Dart
and Cam Scataboo right, because they're both threats to run
the football. Now, defenses have to commit, and I know
the Giants don't have a j Brown and DeVonta Smith
(17:51):
on the outside, but you have some guys that can
make some plays and make it to one on one.
Look little little Jordan Humphrey as a guy I played with.
He's a big, tall tar and Jackson threw it up
to him last week. He boxed the defender out and
he can go get that. So you're gonna have those opportunities.
I think Theo Johnson will be a guy who really
benefits from the run game because knowing this offensive system.
(18:12):
You go back to Gronkowski or even now in New
England with Hunter Henry, a lot of their production comes
off of the play action game. So I'm sure day Ball,
especially come in from coaching tight ends in New England,
is gonna want to be able to use that that
type of concept for the Giants.
Speaker 1 (18:27):
If you want to know how to manage two minutes
of crunch time football, I'm your Matt.
Speaker 2 (18:30):
But if you're wondering about a long term financial plan,
you should talk to citizens.
Speaker 1 (18:34):
Hey, I can also talk long care. I'd like to
learn about Amolli routine. Yes, I knew I could help
make sense of your money with citizens, no question about.
All right, let's get to the matchup here.
Speaker 2 (18:44):
And we were talking before we started, Brian, this is
probably gonna be the best, you know, the toughest test
that Darts faced. We thought the Eagles last week could
be really tough with then Gil and cardinis't play Quinny,
Mitchell coubles out early, and they already had issues at cornerback.
So it turned out to find your one on one
matchup and just kind of take it and of it,
which work. You're not gonna be able to do that
against the Broncos this week. The other thing about I
(19:05):
think that's been constant with the teams the Giants that
face the been heavy z own teams, Right Saints, heavy
z Own team Chargers, heavy z Own team Eagles last week,
Heavy's Own team Chargers. I mean, the Broncos rather play
a ton of man and they have good corners. And
you mentioned normal league nighbors, the Giants wideouts. You're not
rolling out a bunch of guys that can just one
one on one matchup. So what do you think this
matchup looks like for for Dart? How does Dable get
(19:27):
and CAFTA get him ready for it, and what's the
game plan to try to have success against what's probably
the best defensive football.
Speaker 3 (19:33):
Yeah, it's a toughy. I mean, look what they did
to the Jets in London. I mean it was as
an offensive player, I hated watching that game because it
was a defensive Let me get to the one o'clock games,
because this is brutal.
Speaker 1 (19:45):
But you're right.
Speaker 3 (19:46):
I mean, look, they have a very formidable pass rush.
They can lock you down on the outside, and so
to me, the game plans gotta be you got to
try to run the football, make them commit, and maybe
use THEEO. Johnson as your matchup because outside that is
not going to be where you want to go, especially
in man covers. Now, the one thing that can always
help against man covers as a quarterback who can run
(20:07):
because they don't always account for him, right if they're
out there covering. So I would look to see, you
know early on, is there a spy for Jackson darda
they play a man coverage and instead of that extra
guy helping in coverage, is he's spying Jackson? So when
he goes to take off, he goes to to you know,
get after him. So it's going to be the toughest
task by far. The best thing that the Giants can
(20:27):
do is establish a running game and not try to
make it one dimensional, because if you try to get
into a passing matchup with the Broncos Nick Benito Cooper,
they're going to be pinning their ears back to rush
and the guys outside are going to lock down your
receivers because Patrick's certains, you know, the best corner of football.
Like you mentioned, you don't have neighbors. If you have neighbors,
at least it equalizes a little bit. Now, I think
(20:50):
the game plan has to be let's stay ahead of
down in distance, Let's run the football, and let's see
if we can get some explosive plays in the past
game off of the play action pass.
Speaker 2 (20:59):
Now you kind of make this earlier, how teams might
just start trying to crush the pocket, right, Well, the
Broncos too outside rushes. They're speed guys, right, they want
to went outside with Cooper and but you know they're undersize.
Does Dart's ability to run take something away from that
outside pass rush a little bit? Because you don't want
to get too far outside the pocket and create those
running lanes.
Speaker 1 (21:18):
Yeah, exactly.
Speaker 3 (21:18):
And that's when you have like these elite pass rushers
who want to get sacks. How do you coach them
and say, look, that's great, but if you run by them,
now he gets out here making it easier on him.
And I remember, you know, all those years in New England,
we'd sit in those team meetings and we'd be playing
an elusive quarterback and Bill Belichick, we get up there
and say, look, I know you guys want to get sacks,
but this week we have to play team defense. You
(21:41):
have to stay in your rush lanes because if you
go up the field and the quarterback squirts out to
the right and we don't have anyone there, it's the
only way he's going to be able to beat us.
Speaker 2 (21:50):
Right.
Speaker 3 (21:50):
So, I think if you're the if you're the Giants,
you're hoping for these guys to just scream up the
field and give Darts some of these lanes to go
out and make a play with his legs. If you're
the Broncos, youve got to be preaching all week. We
have to keep this guy in the pocket and make
them play quarterback and complete passes against man coverage. It's
going to be very difficult for him, So see if
they can be disciplined.
Speaker 2 (22:11):
And do that. Yeah, it's funny you mentioned the spy
that play that you were talking about last week. Zach
Bond was spying Jackson Dart on that play. That was
his responsibility and Dart shook him. Anyway, Well, teams have
to start spying him with a safety like do you
have to change the type of spy you're using if
Dark shows his mobility maybe is too much for the linebackers.
Speaker 3 (22:27):
Yeah, I mean it's definitely one of those things. You've
seen it with a lot of guys. You know, Jayden
Daniels gets that treatment a lot. And the one thing
is when they start to scramble and that spy comes
out of you know, coverage basically like where he's waiting
for him to commit, Now you do open up some
of the lanes behind him. So look, I wouldn't want
to be a spy having to treat some of these
athletic quarterbacks because you're kind of damned if you do.
(22:49):
Damned if you don't, Like, once he commits to the
line of scrimmage, you got to go tackle him. But
if he's still behind the line of scrimmage and can
throw it to now the spot that you vacated. That
becomes a dilemma, which is why I think, you know,
this is the type of quarterback the NFL is trending
to get to. Is a guy like Jackson Dart, a
guy like Josh Josh Allen Drake may justin Herbert Mahomes
(23:10):
because it puts the defense in such a bind.
Speaker 1 (23:13):
All right, let's flip it.
Speaker 2 (23:14):
You know, bon Nix has had a slower start to
his second year than he had to his first. Still
a lot of short passes, They get the ball out quick,
they move the pocket a lot with him. The Giants
similar deal, right, they have speed rushers. They want to
get up the field and rush to pass there. What
do you think about Nix and how Sean Payton wants
to run that offense worth versus how the Giants are
trying to get to the quarterback and Shane Bon's defense?
Speaker 3 (23:34):
Yeah, I mean, are we talked about the Denver Broncos
pass rush. I mean, is there a better pass rush
after them than the New York Giants. These guys get
after the quarterback and do a tremendous job, but they
have to be disciplined as well, because bon Knicks very similar.
He may not run the ball like Jackson Dart with
the power, but he has the ability to use his
legs and he's going to keep his eyes up and
try to throw the ball first and then he can run.
So you have to be disciplined in that pass rush.
(23:57):
I love the additions that the Giants made in the
offseason with a Debo and Javon Holland. I mean, two
guys that I always respected when I played against him,
and so you're seeing the defense come along. It's gonna
be a challenge because they have some big receivers outside
the tight ends like to be involved. I mean, it's
a Sean Payton offense. You know what you're gonna get.
He's gonna have those first fifteen scripted and they're gonna
(24:18):
be a screen, an outside zone running, inside zone runner.
I mean, he's gonna keep you guessing. So you have
to stay disciplined and you have to try to make
bo Nicks beat you with his arm. Don't don't let
him get outside the pocket. So a very similar game plan,
I would say, if you're the New York Giants defense
of what the Broncos defense is going to try to
do to Jackson Dark.
Speaker 2 (24:35):
All right, final question you mentioned you know what you're
getting with the with the Sean Payn offense. How does
a Sean paying offense try to attack? Are they trying
to stretch horizontally vertically? I know he tries to do
a lot of different things. Is screen games great? If
you're a defense you're getting ready for Sean Payton. What
are some of the telltale signs that Giant fans should
get ready for that.
Speaker 1 (24:52):
A Sean Payn offense is going to show the Giants defense.
Speaker 3 (24:55):
Yeah, in a very similar fashion to like the Patriots system.
I would say Sean Payton system is very similar. You're
going to see a lot of kill kill plays Like
we can all see Drew Brees and if we close
our eyes, kill kill. He's trying to get to the
perfect play, right, and he's trying to keep you on
edge and he's trying to make you defend everything. And
so you're gonna see a lot of those plays where
it's an outside zone to the left and they come
(25:16):
back with a half roll and it's a boot play,
and then they go back to a screen and now
it's a run.
Speaker 1 (25:20):
It's a draw.
Speaker 3 (25:21):
He's going to try to make you defend every blade
of grass and the best way at least I can remember,
you know, when we would go against those offenses. I
could hear Bill in my mind. Look, you just have
to be disciplined, don't fool for the fakes. Just read
your keys and respond. And I think the biggest thing,
like I said before, is that pass rush. Just stay disciplined,
don't try to get out of your gap because you
(25:42):
think you have a sack now all of a sudden.
It gives bo Nix the ability to get outside the
pocket and see what's down the field as opposed to
crushing the pocket, making them let's see if he can
pick you apart and get down the field, as opposed
to maybe a big explosive play when he gets outside
of the pocket.
Speaker 1 (25:57):
You can find Brian Hoyer on Serious XM. Brian.
Speaker 2 (25:59):
What else do you going on? Where can the folks
find you? What are you up to in your post
playing career?
Speaker 3 (26:03):
Yeah? I got a podcasts up here in New England.
Not that many Giants fans are going on to tune
into that, but I do. With David Andrews, he's a
former center of the Patriots, and we've known each other
for a long time. Also do a few things around
the New England Patriots with their local media, but Sirius
XM is the one area you can find me covering
all things of NFL. The Opening Drive with Solomon Willotts
on Thursday morning seven to ten.
Speaker 2 (26:25):
Hey Giants, get the Patriots, lady he or maybe we
can get together and do a little preview before that
game right now.
Speaker 3 (26:29):
Well, teams are hot right now. I would love to
do it, and maybe we're both vying for playoffs spots
when it comes to that point of the season. So
looking forward to it.
Speaker 1 (26:37):
Brian, good stuff, appreciate the time, my friend. All right,
take care Brian Hoy and the Johns.
Speaker 2 (26:40):
Little Podcast brought to you by Citizen's Official.
Speaker 1 (26:42):
Bank of the Giants. We'll see you next time. Everybody,
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