July 24, 2025 • 40 mins
On this episode of the Giants Huddle podcast, John Schmeelk is joined by former Giants beat writer and current Senior Writer at Sports Illustrated, Conor Orr. He talks about what Russell Wilson can do to help this Giants offense, the outlook of the NFC East, and the Giants schedule.
:00 - Russell Wilson’s mentality
9:00 - Wilson’s leadership
15:50 - Jaxson Dart
26:10 - NFC outlook
32:35 - AFC outlook
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
It's time to get inside the Giants hut. Let's go,
Let's go, Giants Do get out on the Giants Mobulo,
give Me some Joke. Part of the Giants Podcast Network.
Let's roll.
Speaker 2 (00:10):
Welcome to another dish of the Giants Total Podcast, brought
to you by Citizens, the official bank of the New
York Football Giants. I am John Schmelck Today a blash
from the past. Former Giants beat writer, now with Sports Illustrated,
co host of the MMQB Monday Morning Quarterback with Albert
Beer Podcast one and Only.
Speaker 1 (00:28):
Connor or Connor, what's going on man? Good to talk
to you.
Speaker 3 (00:31):
You too has everything?
Speaker 1 (00:32):
So what years are you on to beat here?
Speaker 3 (00:34):
Oh? Boy? Uh?
Speaker 4 (00:36):
Twenty twelve, thirteen fourteen, So we were it was like Odell.
I remember being at the draft, Odell's draft at Radio
City Music Hall and meeting his family. There was that
the rough start there, but then they kind of came
like storming back a little bit towards the end of
(00:57):
that season.
Speaker 3 (00:57):
Then the transition over to McAdoo. So it was a
good It was a good time.
Speaker 1 (01:01):
Yeah, So you showed were you you said?
Speaker 2 (01:03):
Was it the twenty twelve season or were you around
for the twenty twenty twelve playoff run two.
Speaker 4 (01:08):
No, so I missed right after that, like that off
season into the following season. So but I always tell
everybody it's in the nicest way possible. Anything was better
than the Jets beat so so.
Speaker 2 (01:24):
And you know, even though the Giants didn't make the
playoffs in twenty twelve, they actually ten and six not
make the playoffs from nine and seven not make the
playoffs with the Giants, Yes, twenty twelve, so that was
a pretty good year. And then twenty thirteen and twenty
fourteen did not go very well though you did have
the Oldell bucket.
Speaker 1 (01:38):
Stuff, so that was Yeah, that was fun, right, Yes,
that was fun.
Speaker 2 (01:42):
So Connor just had a great story come out on
for Sports Illustrated. He spence the time with Russell Wilson
at a park in Brooklyn, and it seemed like Connor,
you guys, didn't do a lot of like football talk necessarily,
but it seemed like he really just his whole presence
and personality really impacted you a bunch.
Speaker 1 (02:00):
Tell me about it.
Speaker 4 (02:01):
Yeah, So, Russell and I came, I mean came into
the league in air quotes, right, Russell's a football player,
but he got drafted the same year that I started
covering the NFL where the same age. We did a
cover story back in twenty twenty during COVID when we
both had kids at the same time, and so when
everything came together for this story, I thought.
Speaker 3 (02:19):
Like, it's a cool it's.
Speaker 4 (02:20):
A cool moment not to just revisit kind of where
he is in his life, but where I'm at in
my life and to talk about, like, Hey, this is
how I feel, you know, this is how my career
is going.
Speaker 3 (02:30):
How do you feel like your career is going. We've
all had ups and downs? What's that like? You know,
how how do you do that as a dad? You know?
How do you do that as a husband?
Speaker 4 (02:38):
And so I find him to be kind of a
really interesting thinker. He's definitely different than a lot of people,
but I think misunderstood too, and so I kind of
hope to bring that out a little bit in the piece.
Speaker 2 (02:50):
Yeah, what I've learned about him since he's been here
is that everything with him seems to be deliberate, right, Like,
he does everything for a reason. There's thought behind everything
he does, and I think that comes off to some
people as though it's fake. But I don't think it's fake.
I just think that's the type of person that he is.
Speaker 3 (03:09):
It's right.
Speaker 4 (03:09):
And so that's really what I wanted to get to
because the first time we did a cover story, I
was really just enamored with that idea. Right, Oh my god,
how can someone think about everything and think it through
and plan everything? And this time around, you know, five
years later, it's why do.
Speaker 3 (03:25):
You do that? What's the why behind it?
Speaker 4 (03:27):
And I feel like I got a really satisfying answer,
which is one that I kind of haven't really read
a bunch anywhere else. And that's that, you know, he
said before his dad passed, and sadly this is a
fifteen year anniversary of his dad's passing that he wrote
him a letter kind of outlining his hopes and dreams
for Russell's future. And Russell's dad, you have to know,
(03:47):
was very self critical of himself, right, and he was
this tremendously successful person, but didn't always necessarily refer to
himself that way. And so for us, he's saying, you know,
I don't know when my time is going to come.
I'm going to write those letters to my kids, and
so what do I want to be in it?
Speaker 3 (04:04):
And so how can.
Speaker 4 (04:04):
I not live every moment like I'm writing something that's
going to be in one of these letters for my kids.
And I guess it kind of just hit me in
a way that it didn't before, where I was like, Wow,
I guess if that's your life experience, why why wouldn't
you be the way that you are?
Speaker 3 (04:18):
You know?
Speaker 2 (04:19):
Yeah, So how do you think that that's impacted the
way the way Russ has gone about things and just
kind of how he's attacked his football life.
Speaker 4 (04:26):
Yeah, I mean the football life everything is, you know,
everything you put in your body, what time you wake up,
I mean, what drills you're doing. I mean I remember
in twenty twenty, you know, talking to him about how
he was evading people in the pocket and they purposely
ship some of the drills to the beach so he
could run backwards and side to side because it's harder
to do it in the sand, and it makes it
(04:46):
feel easier on game to all that stuff right, And
to us it probably seems so ridiculous to care to
that level of minutia, but for him, it's just it's
the way that he's found comfort in his life, you know,
and the way that he likes to live his life,
and so for me, it's just you know, like you said, right,
there's some people who look at it and they're like, ah,
(05:06):
this is sort of just a ham and cheese thing,
like why are you going through your whole script before
the game and acting like the crowd is cheering you
on and stuff like that. But frame it works, and
we all weird things that we do that work for us,
you know.
Speaker 2 (05:19):
So it seemed like it was an interesting conversation you
had about how he's approaching this age thirty seven season, right.
You talked about it and wrote about in the article.
You know, this is now his fourteen in five years
and a guy who I'm sure he thought he was
going to spend his entire year with the Sea. Also
the same why Eli Manning spent his entire year with
the tire career with the Giants. It didn't work out
that way. So how is he thinking about moving on
(05:42):
to the Giants this year and just approaching the fact
that he's now on the back end here at thirty seven,
though I'm not sure that's the way he thinks about it.
Speaker 4 (05:51):
No, I mean, he said in twenty twenty that he
wanted to play until his mid forties, and I asked
him if that was still the case, and he said yeah.
I mean, he said five more years from now, so
that would put him at like forty two or forty three.
And for me, I think that he feels like he's
in a good place physically. He said, like, you know,
you still throw the ball about seventy yards downfield, which
(06:11):
is a lot. He still feels like he can evade rushers.
But and I would go back to the film last
year because a lot of people were saying, oh, it's
not the same Russ. But I started to kind of
pick up on especially at the end of last year.
He's kind of doing what we asked him to do
all along, which is like, you don't need to turn
your back to the defense. You can step up and
you can make those throws. And he's actually been doing
(06:32):
it with a little bit more regularity. But I feel
like that there's such an eagerness to pounce on this
guy that it's like, oh, well, he's not the same person. Well,
or maybe he's just evolving a little bit. And what
happens if he just gets a little bit more efficient,
gets a little bit better in the pocket, he might
be able to see things a little bit differently, might
be able to see things a little better. So I
don't know, I think it's it's worth a shot, right,
(06:54):
I mean, like, and.
Speaker 3 (06:56):
That's the other interesting thing, you know. I kind of
rambling here.
Speaker 4 (06:58):
A little bit, but I said to him, you know,
what about Denver? What about the end of Denver? What
about Pittsburgh? And his response I thought was really interesting,
which is like, why am I not allowed to have
a career and everybody else's like I had ten awesome
years or eleven awesome years and then like two bad ones.
Speaker 3 (07:15):
And if you go back statistically, like his awful.
Speaker 4 (07:18):
Years are like, you know, middle of the road years
for Drew Brees, or they're like some of the best
years for Ben Roethlisberger, you know, and but for him
in particular, I feel like we kind of run out
of patience a little bit faster.
Speaker 3 (07:32):
And I kind of thought it was interesting to point
that out.
Speaker 2 (07:35):
Yeah, I was kind of you know, giant fans that
some of them now aren't that excited about Russell Wilson
and they're like, oh, Lookly did in Denver and lookally
did in Pittsburgh. I'm like, guys, you realize this last
year in Denver with Cheampaign, he had twenty six touchdowns
at eight interceptions. Right, you know, the last time the
Giants quarterback threw for twenty six interceptions had only eight interceptions.
Were talking prime Eli Manning years and Frankie, I'm not
even sure he ever had a three to one ratio.
Speaker 1 (07:56):
Eli wasn't.
Speaker 2 (07:57):
He was a guy that through pick sometimes, which was
fine he was in as a quarterback. But I just
think he's gonna lift the floor of the position here
to a higher level than what the Giants have really
had over the past half a decade, I think.
Speaker 4 (08:11):
And this isn't being unfair, I hope to Daniel Jones,
who I just think it was in a rough spot
at the end of his career, probably mentally.
Speaker 3 (08:20):
Physically, all of that. And say what you will about Russ.
Speaker 4 (08:24):
Let's say that you're a viewing public and you believe
that Russ is just kind of this non real, like
this fake person whatever. Even that, like you're saying, from
an emotional standpoint, is better than a guy who kind
of had to rehab and to figure himself out like Daniel, Right,
And I think that Daniel's getting that chance now somewhere else.
Russell is going to come in and act in a
(08:46):
dependable way. He's going to act in a way that
you expect him to act. And for a lot of
guys who haven't seen that before, I think that's galvanizing.
I mean, you talk to the Jets guys last year
when Aaron Rodgers in the building. You say what you
will about Aaron Rodgers, but they adored his presence and
his professionalism. And is he everybody's cup of tea? No,
(09:07):
but he won a Super Bowl. He knows how it looks,
and that catches on.
Speaker 1 (09:12):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (09:12):
And look, you talk to the guys here about Russell
Wilson and the amount of effusive praise that you get
out of them for just spending what two and a
half months in the spring with this guy. They're in
love with him. And the thing that strikes me is
that it almost to the point sounds scripted, but I
(09:33):
know it's not. Where they all say the same exact thing.
He'll come up to everybody on the team, he'll talk
to him. He tells you exactly what he needs, how
he wants you to do it, And the communication and
the leadership is just at another level. And this is
coming from like defensive players too, not just guys on offense.
And I know again to your point, the impression out
(09:54):
there is at all you know, he's doing the high
knees and the plane. This is all a show. I
can tell you. This giant team is all on board
talking to these players. He is universally adored in that
locker room right now.
Speaker 4 (10:07):
And again, like it's one of those things where even
if it is even like think the worst, even if
it is a show, who cares Because if two more
guys buy in that wouldn't have before, that's two more
guys that are buying in. Like I, You know, I
don't understand like so much of quarterback plays theater in
the NFL, and it's carrying yourself a certain way when
(10:28):
these guys are off the field. Like I did a
cover with Joe Burrow three years ago, and Joe acts
a certain way and conjures a certain vibe. And I said,
what do you do when you're home? I play video
games until my eye'es hurt. I sit on my couch
and I play video games until my eyes hurt. He's
a different person when he gets home, and that's fine,
you know, Like it works for him, and so I
don't know. I mean, I always kind of found that
(10:52):
argument with Russ really interesting and I don't doubt that
a lot of people are buying in Yeah.
Speaker 2 (10:56):
And look, it's funny because I had talked to Davis Webb,
who is Russell's quarterbacks coach in Denver. Look, and we
know that didn't go well, right, I think Russell tell
you that didn't go well in Denver.
Speaker 1 (11:05):
It didn't end well.
Speaker 2 (11:07):
When I talked to Davis wife he was the offensive
coordinator at the Shrine Bowl two years ago, I guess
that would have been twenty twenty four, and I asked him,
you know, how, how was Russ there? You know, I
have know Davis when he was here with the Giants.
We have a good relationship. He would have been honest
with me. This was off the record, and he's like, dude,
he was great. I mean, he was a pleasure to
work with. He did everything we asked of him, and no,
we know him and Sean Payne. You know that wasn't
(11:28):
the best deal there. But the fact that that was
still a really good relationship and it worked, I think
it just shows you what a level of professionalism Russell
Wilson is going to bring.
Speaker 1 (11:39):
To the job.
Speaker 4 (11:40):
Yeah, and that's it like that, This is let's call
it what it is. This season is you're rebounding from
a difficult season. You need to wash the taste out
of your mouth. You need to give the quarterback that
you drafted in the first round some time. And you have,
without questioned, the hardest schedule in the NFL. You need professionalism, right,
I mean, you need a guy that may help you
(12:01):
squeeze out a few more wins than you would have
gotten otherwise.
Speaker 3 (12:05):
And he's the.
Speaker 4 (12:06):
Guy, Like, I mean, who else would you have wont
it in that situation?
Speaker 3 (12:09):
You know, And I know.
Speaker 4 (12:11):
Obviously, you know you talk about guys like Matt Stafford,
who I don't even think was really even available, you know,
for coming down to it, and and and Aaron Rodgers,
and you know, I don't know. I think Russell's right
in there right in terms of a guy that could
come in now. Stafford's on a different level, obviously, But
Rogers coming in or you know, Russell coming in here,
I mean, it's gonna get you what you need.
Speaker 3 (12:33):
You know, huddle up, get in here.
Speaker 1 (12:35):
If you're lined up here, you gotta go over the
middle with at the score great.
Speaker 3 (12:39):
How do we make that happen?
Speaker 1 (12:41):
I don't know, but citizens does?
Speaker 2 (12:43):
It makes sense of your money with citizens Official Bank
of Eli Manning And based on you didn't do a
details on this in the story, but it seemed like
when you guys were doing your little interview, and I
know based on the picture of theo's some cameras they
are shooting it two that some kids just kind of
came up to him and he started interacting with the kids,
like how did that whole thing play out?
Speaker 1 (13:04):
That was the part I joked that was like that.
Speaker 4 (13:06):
I was like, this feels like it like it's stage,
but there was So when you're when you're shooting in
New York City, the NYPD has to be there, right,
and so there's like an NYPD movie truck and there
are some really smart kids who were coming out of
school and they noticed the movie truck and so they
walked down to see, like who's the celebrity down here?
(13:28):
And you know, they just kind of made their way
by and caught Russell's eye and you know he two
seconds later he's over there, you know, asking them where
they're going to college, you know, giving them life advice,
give them autographs playing catch, and I mean Russell played
catch with like half of New York City that day,
like NYPD officers, like old people, like it was crazy.
And so I really do think like part of the
(13:51):
New York City thing is is re energizing him. You know,
he was a Yankees fan growing up. He spent a
lot of time at Yankee Stadium since he's been here,
and is kind of ingratiating himself. You know, he hangs
out with Carmelo a lot and is kind of talking
to him a lot about his experiences here. And so yeah,
I mean he seems revitalized, re energized, and we'll see,
(14:15):
We'll see what New York can do that to people too.
It can do the opposite, right, but it can also.
Speaker 3 (14:20):
Make you feel good too.
Speaker 2 (14:21):
Did he tell you what kind of advice Carmelo gave him?
But I think both guys color coming into similar situations, right, Yeah,
neither franchise wasn't wasn't a great spot when they got here.
Melo was probably more in his prime years than than
Russ's now. But what were some of the things that
that Melo told him about dealing with the city and Frankly,
I still think melo Is is pretty universally loved by
(14:42):
Nick fans. Aren't that many Nick fans that that that
dislike him? I think he handled this time here pretty well.
Speaker 3 (14:46):
I agree.
Speaker 4 (14:47):
And I just want to put on record very quickly
that Philadelphia or Chicago are the hardest places to play
in the NFL, not New York. We're not as bad
as we get made out to be.
Speaker 3 (14:55):
I just want that I agree with you, Okay.
Speaker 2 (14:57):
I think it also helps that there are two teams,
so when something goes wrong, only half the city is
coming after.
Speaker 4 (15:02):
That's true, and yes, and both of them only have
one and maybe it's like a I don't know how
it works that way, but but I think Carmelo's advice
was this is the perfect you know. For Russell is
a very narrative based person. I'm going to tell myself
a story that suits me and that's positive and that
puts me in the right mindset. And for Carmelo, it's like, hey,
this is this is the perfect place for you to
(15:25):
rewrite the later chapters of your career.
Speaker 3 (15:27):
Where else, you know?
Speaker 4 (15:29):
And I think that that was really kind of the
foundation of you know, not only.
Speaker 3 (15:33):
Russell the player.
Speaker 4 (15:34):
But let's not forget I mean, you know, this guy's
poured hundreds of thousands of dollars into every.
Speaker 3 (15:39):
Community that he's been to.
Speaker 4 (15:41):
He's been a staple at every children's hospital that he's
been to. You know, you can't take that away from him,
you know, regardless of value feel about him, that's something
that he's done that you can't take away. And so
Carmelo is saying, you know, this is kind of the
perfect place for you to reintroduce.
Speaker 3 (15:57):
Yourself in that way to the whole world. And I
think he's interested in that.
Speaker 2 (16:01):
We're here in the Hackensacker Mariny Hell Podcast UD you know,
keep getting better. The Giants Little Podcast is brought to
you by Citizens, the official bank of the Giants. From
game day celebrations to your everyday financial needs, Big Blue Fans,
he can get the most out of every moment with Citizens.
Learn more at Citizens bank dot com slash Giants, joined
by Connor or of Sports Illustrated Just at a great
piece with Russell Wilson. Go check that out, all right, Connor,
(16:22):
So what do you think this might look like for
the Giants this year? With a quarterback that's much more
willing to throw the ball down the field than what
they've had the last couple of years. A big time
wide receiver in theleague. Neighbors Brian Dable, obviously a big
year for him. What do you think this year looks
like for them? As you mentioned, with a very difficult schedule.
Speaker 4 (16:41):
I'm interested, Like they just don't seem to be drafting
and developing in a way that makes it seem like
everybody's talking about this is out Well it's do or
die for Brian Dable, which I think is kind of
in Joe Shane and it's like, I think that's a
silly way to think about it.
Speaker 3 (16:57):
I think this schedule again is really difficult.
Speaker 4 (17:00):
So I think for Giants fans, like I would, you know,
I would encourage them to get granular on this season,
you know, and to find the progress, you know. And
I know that's not exciting, and I know that you're
gonna need something, But if this team can you know,
if this team can at least be on the outer
skirts of the playoff chase at the beginning of December,
(17:20):
or let's say that there's an injury or two in
the NFC East and all of a sudden, this thing
becomes a muddy mess like the AFC North does every year.
Just be involved, you know, be in these games. And
I think that Russ probably gives you the chance to
do that. And he gives dabol a quarterback who can
move and throw down field, which is what he has
with Josh Allen, which I think that Daniel could have done,
(17:44):
but I just don't think. I think his body just
didn't hold up in a way that they needed to.
Speaker 3 (17:48):
Run the offense the way that they needed to. And
so just be in games.
Speaker 4 (17:51):
Right, You've got this incredible defense that if Abdul Carter
evolves into what we think he can and you know,
I've been talking to people about him all off season.
Speaker 3 (18:01):
If that's there, then.
Speaker 4 (18:03):
You should your pass rush should be relentless, you should
be more competitive in the early quarters, and the end
of these games shouldn't feel like such a slog. And
so I don't know, I hate to tell a fan
base to be like, hey, get really into it that way,
Like I'm an Orioles fan and I'm like, you know,
I'm grinding on, like, Okay, what's the back end of
our lineup look like in August? Because we're certainly not
making the playoffs, you know, but sometimes you have to
(18:24):
adopt that mind set, you know. Yeah.
Speaker 2 (18:25):
I was joking on our on our Big Book kick
off live show last week, and I'm like, you.
Speaker 1 (18:29):
Know, guys, you might not like the record, but the point.
Speaker 2 (18:31):
Differential, you hope that's a lot better. I don't know,
like like, but like, who cares about the point differential?
What are you talking about? But look, I think you
make the point. There are too many games over the
last couple of years where you're heading out of halftime
and you already know that the game's cooked.
Speaker 1 (18:46):
Right. That happened way too many times.
Speaker 2 (18:48):
And I think because I was kind of explaining at
the fans, Look, the Giants are playing the Chiefs in
their home open are in Week three, right, Like, if
they lose that game twenty seven to twenty four because
of a Patrick Mahomes fourth quarter drive, I mean, you
should go home annoyed as a fan.
Speaker 1 (19:02):
I mean, it's the freaking.
Speaker 4 (19:02):
Jeeves, right, Yes, yeah, I totally agree, and they you know,
we've got this like all or nothing approach to fandom,
which I mean, by the way, I have like a
little Giants fans.
Speaker 3 (19:15):
You've got two since like two thousand and seven.
Speaker 4 (19:17):
Like, you know, I grew up a Browns fan and
I'm not anymore obviously, but like, it can get worse,
So just be thankful for what you've got. You got
two since two thousand and seven, it's pretty good. But
I think it's just that when you lose sense of
the big picture, you take.
Speaker 3 (19:33):
Away what's really fun about being a fan.
Speaker 4 (19:35):
It's like you might as well just be like in
mad and simulate the season towards the end and then
give it a thumbs up or a thumbs down. Part
of it's riding with this, and I think you're right,
though part of it has to.
Speaker 3 (19:44):
Be at halftime. You got to go up and get.
Speaker 4 (19:46):
Your beer, and you got to think, you know, if
a couple of things break this our way in the
second half, we got this and like they're playing in
a manner that leads you to believe it's possible. And
I think that that, to me is that's got to
be what you bring to the table this season.
Speaker 2 (20:00):
And I think it comes back to how we started here.
It comes back to you got to score more points.
Speaker 3 (20:03):
Right.
Speaker 2 (20:04):
You look at the Giants offense the last two years,
they just they just not scoring enough points to win
football games in the National Football League. And that comes
back to the offensive line play, which you've talked about
here for a long time. Heck, you were talking about
that when you're covering the Giants in thirteen and fourteen
round when Ewy Man it was getting s shellac back
there left and right, and can you just score enough
points to give this defense a chance to rush the
(20:24):
passer right? Because if you're down two scores finished, so
and then it comes back to Russell wil City again.
So Brian Dabeles an offensive guy. That to me is
what needs to come together here to make this whole
project work this year.
Speaker 4 (20:37):
And not to take away because I've been accused of
being too soft on Dable over the years, who I
really like and I think is a good coach.
Speaker 3 (20:44):
But you know, and so I'll say this.
Speaker 4 (20:46):
I mean, you look at the turnaround in Carolina towards
the end of last season with the Panthers, right, that's
the perfect example. That team was dealing with even less
resources than the Giants have now, and they were competitive
against the Chiefs, they were competitive against the Bucks, they
were competitive against really good playoff caliber teams down the stretch.
You need to look at least that good. And I
think that that's possible because do you have better players
(21:09):
at almost every one of your key positions.
Speaker 2 (21:12):
And I do think it's fascinating talking about this because
we've seen it work in the NFL a bunch of
different ways.
Speaker 1 (21:19):
But how do you work in the young quarterback? When
do you work in the young quarterback?
Speaker 2 (21:24):
And I think the tricky thing for all of us
is that once we get past the preseason and training
camp practices, we're not in practices anymore, and we're never
gonna see Jackson dor play in a competitive situation. So
the only people that really know whether he's ready are
the coaches. And Brian Dable comes from Bill Belichick's school.
He ain't gonna tell us, So it's just gonna happen,
(21:44):
and we all kind of just have to trust that
they know when the right time is because we're gonna
have no idea.
Speaker 4 (21:50):
Yeah, And to use Bryce as an example again, like
I was talking to players down there, and when they
knew that he was ready to because he got benched
and then came back, And when they knew was that
the minute he was benched, he absolutely just started carving
up the scout team. When they put him on scout team, right,
and it's like, Okay, this is a dude.
Speaker 3 (22:10):
Just give him a minute to chill out and he'll
be fine. And I think we.
Speaker 4 (22:14):
Always rely on analytics, analytics, analytics, but so much of
this is socio emotional. There's gonna be a moment that
Brian Dables sees where Russ is maybe faltering a little bit,
that Jackson is just lighting people up in practice. It's
gonna happen because father time comes for us all, you know.
And when that moment comes, and when Jackson displays the
(22:35):
ability to say like, hey, I know my protections on
this plan. I know I'm gonna check this down, I
know where I'm gonna go on this. I know here
are my core concepts that I want baked in. And
he can enunciate all that you should put him in.
You drafted him in the first round, you know. But
you know everyone has to be patient because you've put
him in before he's ready. It's so much worse for him,
you know. And we've seen that that bears out. There's
(22:55):
hundreds of test cases on this.
Speaker 1 (22:57):
Now.
Speaker 2 (22:57):
Yeah, I mean, do we think Bryce Young was better
off or worse off because his rookie year are.
Speaker 3 (23:01):
So much worse.
Speaker 4 (23:02):
And if Andy Dalton was there with Frank Reich during
his rookie year, I think Frank W. Reich would still
probably be the coach there, and I think that Bryce
Young and CJ. Stroud we'd be talking about him his
neck and neck.
Speaker 1 (23:13):
I completely agree with you. I'm with you on that
one hundred percent.
Speaker 2 (23:16):
And the other thing too, to your point of him
carving up the scout team, the players will know too
exactly is if you put the guy in before he's
ready and the locker room knows you're going to a
guy that does not give you the best chance to win,
usually that doesn't end up going very well.
Speaker 1 (23:33):
So that's a very.
Speaker 2 (23:34):
Delicate balance and line the coach has to walk to
make sure the team also believes in the guy when
they decide to put him into the starting lineup.
Speaker 4 (23:43):
It's the hardest thing for fans to understand because it's
the one thing that we're not privy to, and that's
what happens behind closed doors, like what what led to
that decision? And it's not like one day, you know,
Brian Dable can come out there and be like, hey,
the guys don't believe in Jackson, aren't yet, you know,
and just say that right? I mean, and he can
feel it, and he can read the room, and he
can have captains that can come in and tell him that.
(24:05):
But there's kind of a dance to this all and
and I think that for fans, that's the hardest thing
is being patient. And that's why I thought, you know,
writing about Russ would be interesting because it's like, I
think he's gonna be around a little bit longer than
people think he is. Like, you know, all the replies
to the story, we like, ah, we'll see him after,
we won't see him in October.
Speaker 3 (24:23):
And I was like, I don't think so. I think
you're gonna see him in like November. You know. But
I'm with you.
Speaker 2 (24:28):
That's just me, you know, now, I'm one hundred percent
with you. I think I think we're looking you know.
I think that that's the time frame that I think
is more likely. You know, every time I walk bast PN,
I feel like I see a lower third. What should
Jackson dart play? And I'm like, I haven't seen him
wear pads yet, Guys, Like we need to calm down
a little bit of pumping strikes. But to your point,
the last thing you want is you're in that Wednesday
(24:48):
morning team meeting, right getting ready for a Sunday game.
The coach tells the team, all right, we're going with
Jackson Dart. What you don't want is for like the
group of you know, the Giants have a really good
defensive line group, right for those defense the blind group
to go into the position meeting and before the coaches
go in kind of look at each other and be like,
oh boy, yeah, yeah that is that that is that
is like and like, all right, we're gonna have to
(25:09):
carry this guys, like, that's not what you want. And
I knowing the way Brian Dable cares about quarterback development
and Joe Shane wants to do this the right way,
they're not going to do that because and.
Speaker 1 (25:19):
That's by the way, why they signed Russ Soll Wilson.
Speaker 2 (25:23):
They wouldn't be forced into doing that before they are ready.
Speaker 4 (25:26):
And Jamis Winston correct, I mean, like, you know, there's
layers to this where uh, you're you're buttressing yourself in
case that there's an injury, you know, and and and
I really do think that the runway is a little
bit clearer for Jackson Dart and I think it's smart
and as different as they are, I think they are
(25:46):
all quarterbacks with a similar mindset on the field, Like
I do think that as players there is a common
thread there. But just let him learn, Like like, we
have to be patient. We have to be patient because
every time you.
Speaker 3 (25:58):
Microwave something, it just destroys the whole thing.
Speaker 4 (26:01):
And I think that there's been that cyclical attitude around
here a little bit. Stop flying the planes over the stadium.
I'm gonna that drives me nuts, Like drives me insane.
It's like the biggest waste of resources in God's green earth.
Like the giants will be fine, you know, just just
give them a chance.
Speaker 1 (26:20):
It is funny, all right, Let's go around a league
a little bit.
Speaker 2 (26:23):
We know in the NFC East, I think it's two
thousand and three was the last time we had a
repeat champion in the NFC East. Every year I can
figure out a way to talk myself into how you
could have a different winner. I gotta be honest, I
don't know if I see a path or a team
other than the Eagles winning the NFC East this year?
Speaker 3 (26:40):
Do you Yes?
Speaker 4 (26:42):
I think it could be the commanders, and I think
that's based on you know, we just you know, the
reporting that we do in the off season and the
people that we're talking to. And at first I was
so down on Washington and I thought, you know, they're
perfect example of a team that's going too fast in
their REI right, let's go get Deebo, Samuel, let's go
get von Miller, guys with known personality issues.
Speaker 3 (27:05):
And you have Jaden Daniels, who's.
Speaker 4 (27:06):
Kind of a sweetheart of a guy over here, and
you're interrupting his ability to figure it out.
Speaker 1 (27:11):
Right.
Speaker 4 (27:11):
But I think that what we are underestimating is how
much Cliff Kingsbury's evolved, how much he's grown as a
play caller, and his ability to We don't talk about
him with the mcveigh's of the world, like we kind
of write him off as an air raid guy and like, okay,
go get over there in your corner. What we don't
realize is that he basically built a really amazing non
(27:35):
air raid offense in Arizona, went to USC and now
put it all together in Washington. If that thing evolves,
I think that the league is going to be on
its heels for a while. And so That's why I
would say the Commanders at least have a chance. I'm
picking the Eagles to go back to the super Bowl,
to be clear, but I think the Commanders are my
other You know, that's the other option there, right.
Speaker 1 (27:55):
If you want to know how to manage two minutes
of crunch time football on your match, But if you're
wondering about a long term financial plan, you should talk
to citizens. Hey, I can also talk long care.
Speaker 3 (28:04):
I'd like to learn about amiliar routine.
Speaker 1 (28:06):
Yes, I knew I could help makes sense of your
money with citizens. You know, it's funny. I did not
love the Kingsbury higher, right.
Speaker 2 (28:12):
I didn't think he did a great job in in Arizona,
But it seems like now that that's all he's worrying
about and he doesn't have the head coaching duties. I
thought he was fantastic last year with the Commanders. I'm
with you, but I gotta be honest with you. Their
defense scares the heck out of me.
Speaker 1 (28:24):
Man.
Speaker 2 (28:25):
They just I know, they just sign von Miller. I mean,
I don't know how much he has left in the town.
We'll see, but boy, you look at their secondary. You know,
Bobby Wagner at some point has to start not playing
really well, right, and they don't have a pass rusher. Really,
I mean, there's a lot of holes on that defense
that dan Quinn's gonna have to figure out a way
to patch.
Speaker 3 (28:42):
A lot of holes.
Speaker 4 (28:43):
And again, dan Quinn was great in Dallas because he
did not have to coach the entire team. And now
that you're worried about a rookie quarterback, now that you're
worried about you know, I mean this, this this Commanders
thing took off so fast and as a CEO, he's
going to be pulled in a lot of different directions.
Can he be in that defensive room for as long
(29:04):
as he wants to and for as long as he
can make an impact?
Speaker 3 (29:07):
And I think that's a big question.
Speaker 2 (29:08):
You know, do you have a team that you think
everyone is sleeping on too much in the NFC this
year that could make some noise that nobody expects.
Speaker 3 (29:16):
I don't know about.
Speaker 4 (29:17):
Nobody, but like I think the forty nine ers are
gonna go to the conference championship game.
Speaker 3 (29:21):
And right, I mean, you know, like the six, this
is what they do.
Speaker 4 (29:25):
They have a down year with Kyle, but they'll have
a really down year and then they'll get guys like
Nick Bosa out of it, and then all of a
sudden they come back and they're just destroying people. But
I think we're way underestimating the fact that they traded
away other running backs. They think that Christian McCaffrey is
really healthy again and that's a game changer. Not only that,
but Ricky Piersall is going to get a year better.
(29:46):
And Robert saw is the perfect person for Kyle Shanahan
and to have him back in San Francisco.
Speaker 3 (29:51):
I just think we're underplaying that so much.
Speaker 4 (29:53):
I'm not a gambling person, but I think that they're
over under was like nine wins, nine and a half wins.
Speaker 3 (29:58):
I was like, why isn't that? Why is this off
the books in Vegas?
Speaker 1 (30:01):
Right now?
Speaker 3 (30:01):
They're gonna win eleven games this year.
Speaker 2 (30:03):
You mentioned Piersoll. I think he could have a monster
second year. You know Brandon I used coming off the injury.
You know, now we have Juwan Jennings, who says I
want a contract EXTENTSI I'm out they traded Debo. I mean,
he's him and Kittle kind of like the last two
guys standing here.
Speaker 4 (30:16):
Yeah, yeah, no, And but I think it's one of
those things where you need to do it. And what
did everybody say about Buffalo last year, You're out of
your mind getting rid of Stephan Diggs and getting rid
of all these vets and cutting all these guys. And
what we saw was Khalil Shakir grow into a receiver
who deserved a long term extension. I still think there's
(30:37):
a lot of room for him to grow. He's one
of my favorite receivers in the league. You saw guys
in the backfield, they're developed and just turn into like
really good players that are doing what Josh Allen wants
them to do. That's the secret, right And I think
this is about building around Brock. This is about giving
him the chance to be comfortable. And the core of
this team is still really good.
Speaker 2 (30:57):
And I'm happy that's a team that's on the Giants schedule.
They also played the NFC North, which I think r
you Connor might be the best division in football, though
you can obviously talk about the a FFC North in
that conversation as well. How do you see that shaking out?
How much of a step back do you think the
Lions take losing their two coordinators and can the Bears
make a little bit of noise with Ben Johnson moving
over from Detroit, right.
Speaker 4 (31:17):
I think every year we go into it, like I
think this happened with the AFC West a couple of
years ago, and then the AFC North and then the
AFC in general, where we were just like, oh, this
is a gauntlet, right, and this is going to be impossible,
and then it never lives up to our expectations, you know.
And I think that that's probably the NFC North this
year to me, right, where Green Bay had a good
year last year, but they fell apart in the playoffs
(31:39):
versus the Eagles. I think you saw the distance between
them and someone like Philly. They did not upgrade their
defensive interior at all this offseason, which was befuddling to me.
They still have wide receivers practicing at cornerback, Like there's
some deficiencies there, right, And they went wide receiver heavy
in the draft, which I didn't think was the biggest
position of need for them. I could be wrong, but like,
are they going to get to eleven wins again? I
(32:00):
don't think so. Probably not. The Vikings are effectively starting
a rookie quarterback, and as good as they were last year,
and you could say, well, maybe JJ McCarthy and Sam
Darnold are as good as each other.
Speaker 3 (32:11):
Maybe maybe not.
Speaker 4 (32:12):
And it's also really hard. Brian Flores knows this, and
talk about us. The Legion of Boom knows this. So
much harder to maintain a generational defense than offense, right,
and so can Brian Flores do it?
Speaker 3 (32:24):
Again? That was as big of a reason for their
success as anything.
Speaker 4 (32:27):
So and then you got the Lions who lost both
of their coordinators, lost their center who was kind of
heart and soul that offensive line. They've had to do
a lot of turnover in the offseason. So I will
never doubt Dan Campbell. But the idea that five of
the four of these teams make the playoffs, I think.
I think we're getting a little ahead of ourselves.
Speaker 3 (32:44):
Now.
Speaker 1 (32:45):
I'm with you on that.
Speaker 2 (32:45):
And I always told the Giants fans is as tough
as the NFC East is gonna be this year. Just
be happy you're not in the AFC where you got
to deal with Josh Allen, Patrick Mahomes, Lamar Jackson, Joe Burrow.
Speaker 1 (32:56):
Oh and Justin Herbert's there too, by the way.
Speaker 2 (32:59):
And they also just had the first overall pick in
the drafting camp ward who mightded up being really good. Yeah,
like damn, I mean it's that's tough, dude.
Speaker 1 (33:08):
I know.
Speaker 3 (33:08):
And the fact that I mean like if the Ravens
were in.
Speaker 4 (33:11):
The NFC, I think they would have had three or
four Super Bowls by now. And I think that that
just is a reflection of how deep and how competitive
and how tough that division at that conference is. And
so yeah, and I mean, now, I mean look at
the West. If Sean Payton, Andy Reid, Pete Carroll, I
mean that's ridiculous, you know, and and might be Donald
or I'm sorry, I might be done't but and Jim
(33:32):
Harbaugh and it's does that's one of the greatest collection
of coaches in a single division in NFL history. And
so there's just a lot of talent. There's a lot
of talent from top to bottom.
Speaker 1 (33:44):
No, it really is. And and the Giants get the
AFC West.
Speaker 2 (33:48):
Do you think the Raiders can make a little bit
of noise there with Yes, with with Pete Carroll and
Gino Smith and you know, just think about it, Carol,
we know how good he is. And then an offense,
you have Gino with Genty and Bowers. I know they're
some questions around those three, but that is a pretty
good place to start.
Speaker 4 (34:03):
It's a good place to start, and they got the
best kid from TCU, who I think is really talented.
Speaker 3 (34:09):
The wide receiver.
Speaker 4 (34:09):
I think he could almost be that Lad McConkey, like
I'm gonna I'm gonna gobble up like, you know, one
hundred targets in a season kind of guy, and be
a really reliable guy for Gino Smith. But the secret
weapon there, I think is Chip Kelly. And everybody is saying,
you know, okay, this guy flamed out in the NFL.
Speaker 3 (34:25):
Well, he won double.
Speaker 4 (34:26):
Digit games in two seasons and and kind of was
just not emotionally ready for the job and got fired
after his one bad season and then the forty nine
ers singers ridiculous. But if you look at what he
has done since then and how coaches still revere him offensively,
and then he went from no huddle, no huddle, no
huddle to calling I think some of the fewest plays
(34:47):
in the NCAA with Ohio State last year in their
title run.
Speaker 3 (34:50):
He is evolving.
Speaker 4 (34:52):
He can always change, and he just loves zeroing in
on designing offenses and calling plays like that's what makes
him beat as a person. I think he's in his
bag right now, and I think that they're going to
sneak up on a lot of people.
Speaker 2 (35:06):
Does anyone figure out Patrick Mahomes and keep the Chiefs
out of the Super Bowl this year?
Speaker 4 (35:10):
Well, it's like, you know, you know, we had this
conversation about Tom Brady for twenty years and it just
felt like, you know, how many times can we say
if you get to him with a pass rush, he's
not going to be good?
Speaker 3 (35:22):
Right? And are as good? And that's been the truth.
Speaker 4 (35:26):
It was the truth in the COVID Super Bowl against
the Bucks, and it was the truth in the Super
Bowl last year against the Eagles. If the offensive line
falters and there's not enough going on for him immediately
in front of him to be able to get rid
of the ball, you're going to be able to win
some games and you're going to be able to beat him.
But I think they did a good job this year,
you know, drafting for offense, getting the guy from San
(35:47):
Francisco in free agency, and so I think they're going
to be right back in the conversation.
Speaker 2 (35:52):
All right, final question, Connor gave me one big thing
or storyline that you're tracking during training cam leading up
to the season that you really think could impact the
year this year in the NFL.
Speaker 4 (36:01):
HM hmm, that's a good question, I would say, speaking
of Chip Kelly, Uh, let's see how many more teams
are adopting a college style no huddle offense as we
come into this year.
Speaker 3 (36:15):
Let's keep an eye on that. I think that'd be interesting.
Speaker 1 (36:18):
Why do you think that's going to be a trend?
Speaker 4 (36:21):
I think we are at the point now where we
are so saturated with young quarterbacks and the league is
just turning over, you know, it's it's and I think
it's probably just more advantageous. And if you look at
the league like cyclically, right, like we the Eagles, it
was first it was the Patriots and O seven with
the one one word play calls, and then that came
and went, and then the Eagles came and did it,
(36:41):
and then it came and went, And a lot of
teams are going big and heavy and power because they're
trying to copy the Eagles, And so what is the
zag to that? And there are going to be some
teams that just have no choice. Their offensive line isn't
going to be big enough right there. Their running backs
aren't going to be good enough for healthy enough, and
you're gonna have to come up with some sort of
(37:02):
a counterpoint.
Speaker 3 (37:03):
And so it's like a wild shot in the dark.
But I'm like, let's let's think about that.
Speaker 1 (37:07):
No, I like that.
Speaker 2 (37:08):
I'm tracking the other side of that what you just
talked about. I think we're seeing kind of football solely
reverting back to what we saw around like two thousand
and five, two thousand and six, where all these teams
are playing these you know, shell coverages, whether it's you know,
cover two, cover four, cover six, and I think teams
are realizing, do you know how you beat those coverages
by running the football? And I think I'm curious to
(37:30):
see how much how many more teams start to lead
into the run game a little bit more where it's like,
all right, it's either deep chunk play, but if you
can't get those, then you run the football. And that
maybe is becoming more efficient than the short passing game,
which became so in vogue, you know, five six years ago.
Speaker 4 (37:47):
Yeah, I mean a lot of this stuff is dying
out just based on how the defenses around the league
are covering it and The other part of it too,
is like what Brian Flores did with the Vikings was
and put on tape for everybody, was we're short circuiting
your communication and so we're we're understanding what you're doing
pre snap, and then we are going to put guys
(38:08):
in places where we know it's gonna mess you up.
Speaker 3 (38:10):
That just makes a.
Speaker 4 (38:11):
Pass such a hard task to complete. It's like, why
wouldn't you just run the ball? You know, like they
put nine guys in the box.
Speaker 3 (38:18):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (38:19):
And the other fun part of it too is that
you know, it was such a zone run heavy league.
I think we're also seeing teams ball away from that, right,
We're seeing a lot more gap seem stuff.
Speaker 1 (38:26):
We're duo, you know.
Speaker 2 (38:27):
I think teams figured out how to deal with the
outside zone run finally, and now you know, by putting
a lot of fast and how many how many two
hundred and twenty five pounds linebackers are starting in the
NFL now when Land and Collins came to the league,
that's how much he weighed as a safety, and how
these guys are being a linebacker. So I think just
more power run game and see how defense is now
(38:48):
kind of zigged to that zag.
Speaker 4 (38:50):
Passing games were so extravagant for so long, and now
you apply that extravagance to the run game.
Speaker 3 (38:55):
Like you watched Notre Dame last year.
Speaker 4 (38:56):
They had a quarterback who literally couldn't throw the ball
and they made it to any national championship game based
on because you're borring from the academy, you're borrowing from
Kyle Shanahan, you're barring from Sean McVay.
Speaker 3 (39:06):
It has to be that diverse.
Speaker 4 (39:07):
An offensive line needs to know five or six different
schools of thought.
Speaker 2 (39:11):
Connor, tell the folks about everything you're doing. Anything you
want them to know about the pods, written content you
name it.
Speaker 4 (39:17):
Yeah, SI dot com and Sports Illustrated the magazine. Like
you know, I'm hearing a lot of people subscribing again,
which is good. Like we get to a news stand,
you buy it. It's a lot of fun. You're not
staring at a screen all the time.
Speaker 3 (39:30):
And then pods.
Speaker 4 (39:31):
We got the MMQB podcast on the Sports Illustrated Network
with myself and Albert Breer and uh yeah, just everywhere. Right,
We're gonna be talking about football on every platform imaginable
for the next eight months.
Speaker 3 (39:45):
Isn't that amazing. It's great.
Speaker 2 (39:46):
I mean, the first game is less than two weeks away, man,
I mean, it's it's crazy.
Speaker 1 (39:50):
We're getting there. It's fun, Connor, this is a lot
of fun. Man. Let's catch up soon. If you come
out to camp, we'll have you on again, and let's stay.
Speaker 3 (39:57):
In touch, my friend, all right, looking forward to it.
Speaker 2 (40:00):
Connor Orr from Sports Illustrated on the Giants Total Podcast,
brought to you by Citizens' Official Bank of the Giants.
Speaker 1 (40:04):
We'll see you next time. From the Hackensack Marine Hills
Podcast Studio. Keep getting better.
It's time to get inside the Giants hut. Let's go,
Let's go, Giants Do get out on the Giants Mobulo,
give Me some Joke. Part of the Giants Podcast Network.
Let's roll.
Speaker 2 (00:10):
Welcome to another dish of the Giants Total Podcast, brought
to you by Citizens, the official bank of the New
York Football Giants. I am John Schmelck Today a blash
from the past. Former Giants beat writer, now with Sports Illustrated,
co host of the MMQB Monday Morning Quarterback with Albert
Beer Podcast one and Only.
Speaker 1 (00:28):
Connor or Connor, what's going on man? Good to talk
to you.
Speaker 3 (00:31):
You too has everything?
Speaker 1 (00:32):
So what years are you on to beat here?
Speaker 3 (00:34):
Oh? Boy? Uh?
Speaker 4 (00:36):
Twenty twelve, thirteen fourteen, So we were it was like Odell.
I remember being at the draft, Odell's draft at Radio
City Music Hall and meeting his family. There was that
the rough start there, but then they kind of came
like storming back a little bit towards the end of
(00:57):
that season.
Speaker 3 (00:57):
Then the transition over to McAdoo. So it was a
good It was a good time.
Speaker 1 (01:01):
Yeah, So you showed were you you said?
Speaker 2 (01:03):
Was it the twenty twelve season or were you around
for the twenty twenty twelve playoff run two.
Speaker 4 (01:08):
No, so I missed right after that, like that off
season into the following season. So but I always tell
everybody it's in the nicest way possible. Anything was better
than the Jets beat so so.
Speaker 2 (01:24):
And you know, even though the Giants didn't make the
playoffs in twenty twelve, they actually ten and six not
make the playoffs from nine and seven not make the
playoffs with the Giants, Yes, twenty twelve, so that was
a pretty good year. And then twenty thirteen and twenty
fourteen did not go very well though you did have
the Oldell bucket.
Speaker 1 (01:38):
Stuff, so that was Yeah, that was fun, right, Yes,
that was fun.
Speaker 2 (01:42):
So Connor just had a great story come out on
for Sports Illustrated. He spence the time with Russell Wilson
at a park in Brooklyn, and it seemed like Connor,
you guys, didn't do a lot of like football talk necessarily,
but it seemed like he really just his whole presence
and personality really impacted you a bunch.
Speaker 1 (02:00):
Tell me about it.
Speaker 4 (02:01):
Yeah, So, Russell and I came, I mean came into
the league in air quotes, right, Russell's a football player,
but he got drafted the same year that I started
covering the NFL where the same age. We did a
cover story back in twenty twenty during COVID when we
both had kids at the same time, and so when
everything came together for this story, I thought.
Speaker 3 (02:19):
Like, it's a cool it's.
Speaker 4 (02:20):
A cool moment not to just revisit kind of where
he is in his life, but where I'm at in
my life and to talk about, like, Hey, this is
how I feel, you know, this is how my career
is going.
Speaker 3 (02:30):
How do you feel like your career is going. We've
all had ups and downs? What's that like? You know,
how how do you do that as a dad? You know?
How do you do that as a husband?
Speaker 4 (02:38):
And so I find him to be kind of a
really interesting thinker. He's definitely different than a lot of people,
but I think misunderstood too, and so I kind of
hope to bring that out a little bit in the piece.
Speaker 2 (02:50):
Yeah, what I've learned about him since he's been here
is that everything with him seems to be deliberate, right, Like,
he does everything for a reason. There's thought behind everything
he does, and I think that comes off to some
people as though it's fake. But I don't think it's fake.
I just think that's the type of person that he is.
Speaker 3 (03:09):
It's right.
Speaker 4 (03:09):
And so that's really what I wanted to get to
because the first time we did a cover story, I
was really just enamored with that idea. Right, Oh my god,
how can someone think about everything and think it through
and plan everything? And this time around, you know, five
years later, it's why do.
Speaker 3 (03:25):
You do that? What's the why behind it?
Speaker 4 (03:27):
And I feel like I got a really satisfying answer,
which is one that I kind of haven't really read
a bunch anywhere else. And that's that, you know, he
said before his dad passed, and sadly this is a
fifteen year anniversary of his dad's passing that he wrote
him a letter kind of outlining his hopes and dreams
for Russell's future. And Russell's dad, you have to know,
(03:47):
was very self critical of himself, right, and he was
this tremendously successful person, but didn't always necessarily refer to
himself that way. And so for us, he's saying, you know,
I don't know when my time is going to come.
I'm going to write those letters to my kids, and
so what do I want to be in it?
Speaker 3 (04:04):
And so how can.
Speaker 4 (04:04):
I not live every moment like I'm writing something that's
going to be in one of these letters for my kids.
And I guess it kind of just hit me in
a way that it didn't before, where I was like, Wow,
I guess if that's your life experience, why why wouldn't
you be the way that you are?
Speaker 3 (04:18):
You know?
Speaker 2 (04:19):
Yeah, So how do you think that that's impacted the
way the way Russ has gone about things and just
kind of how he's attacked his football life.
Speaker 4 (04:26):
Yeah, I mean the football life everything is, you know,
everything you put in your body, what time you wake up,
I mean, what drills you're doing. I mean I remember
in twenty twenty, you know, talking to him about how
he was evading people in the pocket and they purposely
ship some of the drills to the beach so he
could run backwards and side to side because it's harder
to do it in the sand, and it makes it
(04:46):
feel easier on game to all that stuff right, And
to us it probably seems so ridiculous to care to
that level of minutia, but for him, it's just it's
the way that he's found comfort in his life, you know,
and the way that he likes to live his life,
and so for me, it's just you know, like you said, right,
there's some people who look at it and they're like, ah,
(05:06):
this is sort of just a ham and cheese thing,
like why are you going through your whole script before
the game and acting like the crowd is cheering you
on and stuff like that. But frame it works, and
we all weird things that we do that work for us,
you know.
Speaker 2 (05:19):
So it seemed like it was an interesting conversation you
had about how he's approaching this age thirty seven season, right.
You talked about it and wrote about in the article.
You know, this is now his fourteen in five years
and a guy who I'm sure he thought he was
going to spend his entire year with the Sea. Also
the same why Eli Manning spent his entire year with
the tire career with the Giants. It didn't work out
that way. So how is he thinking about moving on
(05:42):
to the Giants this year and just approaching the fact
that he's now on the back end here at thirty seven,
though I'm not sure that's the way he thinks about it.
Speaker 4 (05:51):
No, I mean, he said in twenty twenty that he
wanted to play until his mid forties, and I asked
him if that was still the case, and he said yeah.
I mean, he said five more years from now, so
that would put him at like forty two or forty three.
And for me, I think that he feels like he's
in a good place physically. He said, like, you know,
you still throw the ball about seventy yards downfield, which
(06:11):
is a lot. He still feels like he can evade rushers.
But and I would go back to the film last
year because a lot of people were saying, oh, it's
not the same Russ. But I started to kind of
pick up on especially at the end of last year.
He's kind of doing what we asked him to do
all along, which is like, you don't need to turn
your back to the defense. You can step up and
you can make those throws. And he's actually been doing
(06:32):
it with a little bit more regularity. But I feel
like that there's such an eagerness to pounce on this
guy that it's like, oh, well, he's not the same person. Well,
or maybe he's just evolving a little bit. And what
happens if he just gets a little bit more efficient,
gets a little bit better in the pocket, he might
be able to see things a little bit differently, might
be able to see things a little better. So I
don't know, I think it's it's worth a shot, right,
(06:54):
I mean, like, and.
Speaker 3 (06:56):
That's the other interesting thing, you know. I kind of
rambling here.
Speaker 4 (06:58):
A little bit, but I said to him, you know,
what about Denver? What about the end of Denver? What
about Pittsburgh? And his response I thought was really interesting,
which is like, why am I not allowed to have
a career and everybody else's like I had ten awesome
years or eleven awesome years and then like two bad ones.
Speaker 3 (07:15):
And if you go back statistically, like his awful.
Speaker 4 (07:18):
Years are like, you know, middle of the road years
for Drew Brees, or they're like some of the best
years for Ben Roethlisberger, you know, and but for him
in particular, I feel like we kind of run out
of patience a little bit faster.
Speaker 3 (07:32):
And I kind of thought it was interesting to point
that out.
Speaker 2 (07:35):
Yeah, I was kind of you know, giant fans that
some of them now aren't that excited about Russell Wilson
and they're like, oh, Lookly did in Denver and lookally
did in Pittsburgh. I'm like, guys, you realize this last
year in Denver with Cheampaign, he had twenty six touchdowns
at eight interceptions. Right, you know, the last time the
Giants quarterback threw for twenty six interceptions had only eight interceptions.
Were talking prime Eli Manning years and Frankie, I'm not
even sure he ever had a three to one ratio.
Speaker 1 (07:56):
Eli wasn't.
Speaker 2 (07:57):
He was a guy that through pick sometimes, which was
fine he was in as a quarterback. But I just
think he's gonna lift the floor of the position here
to a higher level than what the Giants have really
had over the past half a decade, I think.
Speaker 4 (08:11):
And this isn't being unfair, I hope to Daniel Jones,
who I just think it was in a rough spot
at the end of his career, probably mentally.
Speaker 3 (08:20):
Physically, all of that. And say what you will about Russ.
Speaker 4 (08:24):
Let's say that you're a viewing public and you believe
that Russ is just kind of this non real, like
this fake person whatever. Even that, like you're saying, from
an emotional standpoint, is better than a guy who kind
of had to rehab and to figure himself out like Daniel, Right,
And I think that Daniel's getting that chance now somewhere else.
Russell is going to come in and act in a
(08:46):
dependable way. He's going to act in a way that
you expect him to act. And for a lot of
guys who haven't seen that before, I think that's galvanizing.
I mean, you talk to the Jets guys last year
when Aaron Rodgers in the building. You say what you
will about Aaron Rodgers, but they adored his presence and
his professionalism. And is he everybody's cup of tea? No,
(09:07):
but he won a Super Bowl. He knows how it looks,
and that catches on.
Speaker 1 (09:12):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (09:12):
And look, you talk to the guys here about Russell
Wilson and the amount of effusive praise that you get
out of them for just spending what two and a
half months in the spring with this guy. They're in
love with him. And the thing that strikes me is
that it almost to the point sounds scripted, but I
(09:33):
know it's not. Where they all say the same exact thing.
He'll come up to everybody on the team, he'll talk
to him. He tells you exactly what he needs, how
he wants you to do it, And the communication and
the leadership is just at another level. And this is
coming from like defensive players too, not just guys on offense.
And I know again to your point, the impression out
(09:54):
there is at all you know, he's doing the high
knees and the plane. This is all a show. I
can tell you. This giant team is all on board
talking to these players. He is universally adored in that
locker room right now.
Speaker 4 (10:07):
And again, like it's one of those things where even
if it is even like think the worst, even if
it is a show, who cares Because if two more
guys buy in that wouldn't have before, that's two more
guys that are buying in. Like I, You know, I
don't understand like so much of quarterback plays theater in
the NFL, and it's carrying yourself a certain way when
(10:28):
these guys are off the field. Like I did a
cover with Joe Burrow three years ago, and Joe acts
a certain way and conjures a certain vibe. And I said,
what do you do when you're home? I play video
games until my eye'es hurt. I sit on my couch
and I play video games until my eyes hurt. He's
a different person when he gets home, and that's fine,
you know, Like it works for him, and so I
don't know. I mean, I always kind of found that
(10:52):
argument with Russ really interesting and I don't doubt that
a lot of people are buying in Yeah.
Speaker 2 (10:56):
And look, it's funny because I had talked to Davis Webb,
who is Russell's quarterbacks coach in Denver. Look, and we
know that didn't go well, right, I think Russell tell
you that didn't go well in Denver.
Speaker 1 (11:05):
It didn't end well.
Speaker 2 (11:07):
When I talked to Davis wife he was the offensive
coordinator at the Shrine Bowl two years ago, I guess
that would have been twenty twenty four, and I asked him,
you know, how, how was Russ there? You know, I
have know Davis when he was here with the Giants.
We have a good relationship. He would have been honest
with me. This was off the record, and he's like, dude,
he was great. I mean, he was a pleasure to
work with. He did everything we asked of him, and no,
we know him and Sean Payne. You know that wasn't
(11:28):
the best deal there. But the fact that that was
still a really good relationship and it worked, I think
it just shows you what a level of professionalism Russell
Wilson is going to bring.
Speaker 1 (11:39):
To the job.
Speaker 4 (11:40):
Yeah, and that's it like that, This is let's call
it what it is. This season is you're rebounding from
a difficult season. You need to wash the taste out
of your mouth. You need to give the quarterback that
you drafted in the first round some time. And you have,
without questioned, the hardest schedule in the NFL. You need professionalism, right,
I mean, you need a guy that may help you
(12:01):
squeeze out a few more wins than you would have
gotten otherwise.
Speaker 3 (12:05):
And he's the.
Speaker 4 (12:06):
Guy, Like, I mean, who else would you have wont
it in that situation?
Speaker 3 (12:09):
You know, And I know.
Speaker 4 (12:11):
Obviously, you know you talk about guys like Matt Stafford,
who I don't even think was really even available, you know,
for coming down to it, and and and Aaron Rodgers,
and you know, I don't know. I think Russell's right
in there right in terms of a guy that could
come in now. Stafford's on a different level, obviously, But
Rogers coming in or you know, Russell coming in here,
I mean, it's gonna get you what you need.
Speaker 3 (12:33):
You know, huddle up, get in here.
Speaker 1 (12:35):
If you're lined up here, you gotta go over the
middle with at the score great.
Speaker 3 (12:39):
How do we make that happen?
Speaker 1 (12:41):
I don't know, but citizens does?
Speaker 2 (12:43):
It makes sense of your money with citizens Official Bank
of Eli Manning And based on you didn't do a
details on this in the story, but it seemed like
when you guys were doing your little interview, and I
know based on the picture of theo's some cameras they
are shooting it two that some kids just kind of
came up to him and he started interacting with the kids,
like how did that whole thing play out?
Speaker 1 (13:04):
That was the part I joked that was like that.
Speaker 4 (13:06):
I was like, this feels like it like it's stage,
but there was So when you're when you're shooting in
New York City, the NYPD has to be there, right,
and so there's like an NYPD movie truck and there
are some really smart kids who were coming out of
school and they noticed the movie truck and so they
walked down to see, like who's the celebrity down here?
(13:28):
And you know, they just kind of made their way
by and caught Russell's eye and you know he two
seconds later he's over there, you know, asking them where
they're going to college, you know, giving them life advice,
give them autographs playing catch, and I mean Russell played
catch with like half of New York City that day,
like NYPD officers, like old people, like it was crazy.
And so I really do think like part of the
(13:51):
New York City thing is is re energizing him. You know,
he was a Yankees fan growing up. He spent a
lot of time at Yankee Stadium since he's been here,
and is kind of ingratiating himself. You know, he hangs
out with Carmelo a lot and is kind of talking
to him a lot about his experiences here. And so yeah,
I mean he seems revitalized, re energized, and we'll see,
(14:15):
We'll see what New York can do that to people too.
It can do the opposite, right, but it can also.
Speaker 3 (14:20):
Make you feel good too.
Speaker 2 (14:21):
Did he tell you what kind of advice Carmelo gave him?
But I think both guys color coming into similar situations, right, Yeah,
neither franchise wasn't wasn't a great spot when they got here.
Melo was probably more in his prime years than than
Russ's now. But what were some of the things that
that Melo told him about dealing with the city and Frankly,
I still think melo Is is pretty universally loved by
(14:42):
Nick fans. Aren't that many Nick fans that that that
dislike him? I think he handled this time here pretty well.
Speaker 3 (14:46):
I agree.
Speaker 4 (14:47):
And I just want to put on record very quickly
that Philadelphia or Chicago are the hardest places to play
in the NFL, not New York. We're not as bad
as we get made out to be.
Speaker 3 (14:55):
I just want that I agree with you, Okay.
Speaker 2 (14:57):
I think it also helps that there are two teams,
so when something goes wrong, only half the city is
coming after.
Speaker 4 (15:02):
That's true, and yes, and both of them only have
one and maybe it's like a I don't know how
it works that way, but but I think Carmelo's advice
was this is the perfect you know. For Russell is
a very narrative based person. I'm going to tell myself
a story that suits me and that's positive and that
puts me in the right mindset. And for Carmelo, it's like, hey,
this is this is the perfect place for you to
(15:25):
rewrite the later chapters of your career.
Speaker 3 (15:27):
Where else, you know?
Speaker 4 (15:29):
And I think that that was really kind of the
foundation of you know, not only.
Speaker 3 (15:33):
Russell the player.
Speaker 4 (15:34):
But let's not forget I mean, you know, this guy's
poured hundreds of thousands of dollars into every.
Speaker 3 (15:39):
Community that he's been to.
Speaker 4 (15:41):
He's been a staple at every children's hospital that he's
been to. You know, you can't take that away from him,
you know, regardless of value feel about him, that's something
that he's done that you can't take away. And so
Carmelo is saying, you know, this is kind of the
perfect place for you to reintroduce.
Speaker 3 (15:57):
Yourself in that way to the whole world. And I
think he's interested in that.
Speaker 2 (16:01):
We're here in the Hackensacker Mariny Hell Podcast UD you know,
keep getting better. The Giants Little Podcast is brought to
you by Citizens, the official bank of the Giants. From
game day celebrations to your everyday financial needs, Big Blue Fans,
he can get the most out of every moment with Citizens.
Learn more at Citizens bank dot com slash Giants, joined
by Connor or of Sports Illustrated Just at a great
piece with Russell Wilson. Go check that out, all right, Connor,
(16:22):
So what do you think this might look like for
the Giants this year? With a quarterback that's much more
willing to throw the ball down the field than what
they've had the last couple of years. A big time
wide receiver in theleague. Neighbors Brian Dable, obviously a big
year for him. What do you think this year looks
like for them? As you mentioned, with a very difficult schedule.
Speaker 4 (16:41):
I'm interested, Like they just don't seem to be drafting
and developing in a way that makes it seem like
everybody's talking about this is out Well it's do or
die for Brian Dable, which I think is kind of
in Joe Shane and it's like, I think that's a
silly way to think about it.
Speaker 3 (16:57):
I think this schedule again is really difficult.
Speaker 4 (17:00):
So I think for Giants fans, like I would, you know,
I would encourage them to get granular on this season,
you know, and to find the progress, you know. And
I know that's not exciting, and I know that you're
gonna need something, But if this team can you know,
if this team can at least be on the outer
skirts of the playoff chase at the beginning of December,
(17:20):
or let's say that there's an injury or two in
the NFC East and all of a sudden, this thing
becomes a muddy mess like the AFC North does every year.
Just be involved, you know, be in these games. And
I think that Russ probably gives you the chance to
do that. And he gives dabol a quarterback who can
move and throw down field, which is what he has
with Josh Allen, which I think that Daniel could have done,
(17:44):
but I just don't think. I think his body just
didn't hold up in a way that they needed to.
Speaker 3 (17:48):
Run the offense the way that they needed to. And
so just be in games.
Speaker 4 (17:51):
Right, You've got this incredible defense that if Abdul Carter
evolves into what we think he can and you know,
I've been talking to people about him all off season.
Speaker 3 (18:01):
If that's there, then.
Speaker 4 (18:03):
You should your pass rush should be relentless, you should
be more competitive in the early quarters, and the end
of these games shouldn't feel like such a slog. And
so I don't know, I hate to tell a fan
base to be like, hey, get really into it that way,
Like I'm an Orioles fan and I'm like, you know,
I'm grinding on, like, Okay, what's the back end of
our lineup look like in August? Because we're certainly not
making the playoffs, you know, but sometimes you have to
(18:24):
adopt that mind set, you know. Yeah.
Speaker 2 (18:25):
I was joking on our on our Big Book kick
off live show last week, and I'm like, you.
Speaker 1 (18:29):
Know, guys, you might not like the record, but the point.
Speaker 2 (18:31):
Differential, you hope that's a lot better. I don't know,
like like, but like, who cares about the point differential?
What are you talking about? But look, I think you
make the point. There are too many games over the
last couple of years where you're heading out of halftime
and you already know that the game's cooked.
Speaker 1 (18:46):
Right. That happened way too many times.
Speaker 2 (18:48):
And I think because I was kind of explaining at
the fans, Look, the Giants are playing the Chiefs in
their home open are in Week three, right, Like, if
they lose that game twenty seven to twenty four because
of a Patrick Mahomes fourth quarter drive, I mean, you
should go home annoyed as a fan.
Speaker 1 (19:02):
I mean, it's the freaking.
Speaker 4 (19:02):
Jeeves, right, Yes, yeah, I totally agree, and they you know,
we've got this like all or nothing approach to fandom,
which I mean, by the way, I have like a
little Giants fans.
Speaker 3 (19:15):
You've got two since like two thousand and seven.
Speaker 4 (19:17):
Like, you know, I grew up a Browns fan and
I'm not anymore obviously, but like, it can get worse,
So just be thankful for what you've got. You got
two since two thousand and seven, it's pretty good. But
I think it's just that when you lose sense of
the big picture, you take.
Speaker 3 (19:33):
Away what's really fun about being a fan.
Speaker 4 (19:35):
It's like you might as well just be like in
mad and simulate the season towards the end and then
give it a thumbs up or a thumbs down. Part
of it's riding with this, and I think you're right,
though part of it has to.
Speaker 3 (19:44):
Be at halftime. You got to go up and get.
Speaker 4 (19:46):
Your beer, and you got to think, you know, if
a couple of things break this our way in the
second half, we got this and like they're playing in
a manner that leads you to believe it's possible. And
I think that that, to me is that's got to
be what you bring to the table this season.
Speaker 2 (20:00):
And I think it comes back to how we started here.
It comes back to you got to score more points.
Speaker 3 (20:03):
Right.
Speaker 2 (20:04):
You look at the Giants offense the last two years,
they just they just not scoring enough points to win
football games in the National Football League. And that comes
back to the offensive line play, which you've talked about
here for a long time. Heck, you were talking about
that when you're covering the Giants in thirteen and fourteen
round when Ewy Man it was getting s shellac back
there left and right, and can you just score enough
points to give this defense a chance to rush the
(20:24):
passer right? Because if you're down two scores finished, so
and then it comes back to Russell wil City again.
So Brian Dabeles an offensive guy. That to me is
what needs to come together here to make this whole
project work this year.
Speaker 4 (20:37):
And not to take away because I've been accused of
being too soft on Dable over the years, who I
really like and I think is a good coach.
Speaker 3 (20:44):
But you know, and so I'll say this.
Speaker 4 (20:46):
I mean, you look at the turnaround in Carolina towards
the end of last season with the Panthers, right, that's
the perfect example. That team was dealing with even less
resources than the Giants have now, and they were competitive
against the Chiefs, they were competitive against the Bucks, they
were competitive against really good playoff caliber teams down the stretch.
You need to look at least that good. And I
think that that's possible because do you have better players
(21:09):
at almost every one of your key positions.
Speaker 2 (21:12):
And I do think it's fascinating talking about this because
we've seen it work in the NFL a bunch of
different ways.
Speaker 1 (21:19):
But how do you work in the young quarterback? When
do you work in the young quarterback?
Speaker 2 (21:24):
And I think the tricky thing for all of us
is that once we get past the preseason and training
camp practices, we're not in practices anymore, and we're never
gonna see Jackson dor play in a competitive situation. So
the only people that really know whether he's ready are
the coaches. And Brian Dable comes from Bill Belichick's school.
He ain't gonna tell us, So it's just gonna happen,
(21:44):
and we all kind of just have to trust that
they know when the right time is because we're gonna
have no idea.
Speaker 4 (21:50):
Yeah, And to use Bryce as an example again, like
I was talking to players down there, and when they
knew that he was ready to because he got benched
and then came back, And when they knew was that
the minute he was benched, he absolutely just started carving
up the scout team. When they put him on scout team, right,
and it's like, Okay, this is a dude.
Speaker 3 (22:10):
Just give him a minute to chill out and he'll
be fine. And I think we.
Speaker 4 (22:14):
Always rely on analytics, analytics, analytics, but so much of
this is socio emotional. There's gonna be a moment that
Brian Dables sees where Russ is maybe faltering a little bit,
that Jackson is just lighting people up in practice. It's
gonna happen because father time comes for us all, you know.
And when that moment comes, and when Jackson displays the
(22:35):
ability to say like, hey, I know my protections on
this plan. I know I'm gonna check this down, I
know where I'm gonna go on this. I know here
are my core concepts that I want baked in. And
he can enunciate all that you should put him in.
You drafted him in the first round, you know. But
you know everyone has to be patient because you've put
him in before he's ready. It's so much worse for him,
you know. And we've seen that that bears out. There's
(22:55):
hundreds of test cases on this.
Speaker 1 (22:57):
Now.
Speaker 2 (22:57):
Yeah, I mean, do we think Bryce Young was better
off or worse off because his rookie year are.
Speaker 3 (23:01):
So much worse.
Speaker 4 (23:02):
And if Andy Dalton was there with Frank Reich during
his rookie year, I think Frank W. Reich would still
probably be the coach there, and I think that Bryce
Young and CJ. Stroud we'd be talking about him his
neck and neck.
Speaker 1 (23:13):
I completely agree with you. I'm with you on that
one hundred percent.
Speaker 2 (23:16):
And the other thing too, to your point of him
carving up the scout team, the players will know too
exactly is if you put the guy in before he's
ready and the locker room knows you're going to a
guy that does not give you the best chance to win,
usually that doesn't end up going very well.
Speaker 1 (23:33):
So that's a very.
Speaker 2 (23:34):
Delicate balance and line the coach has to walk to
make sure the team also believes in the guy when
they decide to put him into the starting lineup.
Speaker 4 (23:43):
It's the hardest thing for fans to understand because it's
the one thing that we're not privy to, and that's
what happens behind closed doors, like what what led to
that decision? And it's not like one day, you know,
Brian Dable can come out there and be like, hey,
the guys don't believe in Jackson, aren't yet, you know,
and just say that right? I mean, and he can
feel it, and he can read the room, and he
can have captains that can come in and tell him that.
(24:05):
But there's kind of a dance to this all and
and I think that for fans, that's the hardest thing
is being patient. And that's why I thought, you know,
writing about Russ would be interesting because it's like, I
think he's gonna be around a little bit longer than
people think he is. Like, you know, all the replies
to the story, we like, ah, we'll see him after,
we won't see him in October.
Speaker 3 (24:23):
And I was like, I don't think so. I think
you're gonna see him in like November. You know. But
I'm with you.
Speaker 2 (24:28):
That's just me, you know, now, I'm one hundred percent
with you. I think I think we're looking you know.
I think that that's the time frame that I think
is more likely. You know, every time I walk bast PN,
I feel like I see a lower third. What should
Jackson dart play? And I'm like, I haven't seen him
wear pads yet, Guys, Like we need to calm down
a little bit of pumping strikes. But to your point,
the last thing you want is you're in that Wednesday
(24:48):
morning team meeting, right getting ready for a Sunday game.
The coach tells the team, all right, we're going with
Jackson Dart. What you don't want is for like the
group of you know, the Giants have a really good
defensive line group, right for those defense the blind group
to go into the position meeting and before the coaches
go in kind of look at each other and be like,
oh boy, yeah, yeah that is that that is that
is like and like, all right, we're gonna have to
(25:09):
carry this guys, like, that's not what you want. And
I knowing the way Brian Dable cares about quarterback development
and Joe Shane wants to do this the right way,
they're not going to do that because and.
Speaker 1 (25:19):
That's by the way, why they signed Russ Soll Wilson.
Speaker 2 (25:23):
They wouldn't be forced into doing that before they are ready.
Speaker 4 (25:26):
And Jamis Winston correct, I mean, like, you know, there's
layers to this where uh, you're you're buttressing yourself in
case that there's an injury, you know, and and and
I really do think that the runway is a little
bit clearer for Jackson Dart and I think it's smart
and as different as they are, I think they are
(25:46):
all quarterbacks with a similar mindset on the field, Like
I do think that as players there is a common
thread there. But just let him learn, Like like, we
have to be patient. We have to be patient because
every time you.
Speaker 3 (25:58):
Microwave something, it just destroys the whole thing.
Speaker 4 (26:01):
And I think that there's been that cyclical attitude around
here a little bit. Stop flying the planes over the stadium.
I'm gonna that drives me nuts, Like drives me insane.
It's like the biggest waste of resources in God's green earth.
Like the giants will be fine, you know, just just
give them a chance.
Speaker 1 (26:20):
It is funny, all right, Let's go around a league
a little bit.
Speaker 2 (26:23):
We know in the NFC East, I think it's two
thousand and three was the last time we had a
repeat champion in the NFC East. Every year I can
figure out a way to talk myself into how you
could have a different winner. I gotta be honest, I
don't know if I see a path or a team
other than the Eagles winning the NFC East this year?
Speaker 3 (26:40):
Do you Yes?
Speaker 4 (26:42):
I think it could be the commanders, and I think
that's based on you know, we just you know, the
reporting that we do in the off season and the
people that we're talking to. And at first I was
so down on Washington and I thought, you know, they're
perfect example of a team that's going too fast in
their REI right, let's go get Deebo, Samuel, let's go
get von Miller, guys with known personality issues.
Speaker 3 (27:05):
And you have Jaden Daniels, who's.
Speaker 4 (27:06):
Kind of a sweetheart of a guy over here, and
you're interrupting his ability to figure it out.
Speaker 1 (27:11):
Right.
Speaker 4 (27:11):
But I think that what we are underestimating is how
much Cliff Kingsbury's evolved, how much he's grown as a
play caller, and his ability to We don't talk about
him with the mcveigh's of the world, like we kind
of write him off as an air raid guy and like, okay,
go get over there in your corner. What we don't
realize is that he basically built a really amazing non
(27:35):
air raid offense in Arizona, went to USC and now
put it all together in Washington. If that thing evolves,
I think that the league is going to be on
its heels for a while. And so That's why I
would say the Commanders at least have a chance. I'm
picking the Eagles to go back to the super Bowl,
to be clear, but I think the Commanders are my
other You know, that's the other option there, right.
Speaker 1 (27:55):
If you want to know how to manage two minutes
of crunch time football on your match, But if you're
wondering about a long term financial plan, you should talk
to citizens. Hey, I can also talk long care.
Speaker 3 (28:04):
I'd like to learn about amiliar routine.
Speaker 1 (28:06):
Yes, I knew I could help makes sense of your
money with citizens. You know, it's funny. I did not
love the Kingsbury higher, right.
Speaker 2 (28:12):
I didn't think he did a great job in in Arizona,
But it seems like now that that's all he's worrying
about and he doesn't have the head coaching duties. I
thought he was fantastic last year with the Commanders. I'm
with you, but I gotta be honest with you. Their
defense scares the heck out of me.
Speaker 1 (28:24):
Man.
Speaker 2 (28:25):
They just I know, they just sign von Miller. I mean,
I don't know how much he has left in the town.
We'll see, but boy, you look at their secondary. You know,
Bobby Wagner at some point has to start not playing
really well, right, and they don't have a pass rusher. Really,
I mean, there's a lot of holes on that defense
that dan Quinn's gonna have to figure out a way
to patch.
Speaker 3 (28:42):
A lot of holes.
Speaker 4 (28:43):
And again, dan Quinn was great in Dallas because he
did not have to coach the entire team. And now
that you're worried about a rookie quarterback, now that you're
worried about you know, I mean this, this this Commanders
thing took off so fast and as a CEO, he's
going to be pulled in a lot of different directions.
Can he be in that defensive room for as long
(29:04):
as he wants to and for as long as he
can make an impact?
Speaker 3 (29:07):
And I think that's a big question.
Speaker 2 (29:08):
You know, do you have a team that you think
everyone is sleeping on too much in the NFC this
year that could make some noise that nobody expects.
Speaker 3 (29:16):
I don't know about.
Speaker 4 (29:17):
Nobody, but like I think the forty nine ers are
gonna go to the conference championship game.
Speaker 3 (29:21):
And right, I mean, you know, like the six, this
is what they do.
Speaker 4 (29:25):
They have a down year with Kyle, but they'll have
a really down year and then they'll get guys like
Nick Bosa out of it, and then all of a
sudden they come back and they're just destroying people. But
I think we're way underestimating the fact that they traded
away other running backs. They think that Christian McCaffrey is
really healthy again and that's a game changer. Not only that,
but Ricky Piersall is going to get a year better.
(29:46):
And Robert saw is the perfect person for Kyle Shanahan
and to have him back in San Francisco.
Speaker 3 (29:51):
I just think we're underplaying that so much.
Speaker 4 (29:53):
I'm not a gambling person, but I think that they're
over under was like nine wins, nine and a half wins.
Speaker 3 (29:58):
I was like, why isn't that? Why is this off
the books in Vegas?
Speaker 1 (30:01):
Right now?
Speaker 3 (30:01):
They're gonna win eleven games this year.
Speaker 2 (30:03):
You mentioned Piersoll. I think he could have a monster
second year. You know Brandon I used coming off the injury.
You know, now we have Juwan Jennings, who says I
want a contract EXTENTSI I'm out they traded Debo. I mean,
he's him and Kittle kind of like the last two
guys standing here.
Speaker 4 (30:16):
Yeah, yeah, no, And but I think it's one of
those things where you need to do it. And what
did everybody say about Buffalo last year, You're out of
your mind getting rid of Stephan Diggs and getting rid
of all these vets and cutting all these guys. And
what we saw was Khalil Shakir grow into a receiver
who deserved a long term extension. I still think there's
(30:37):
a lot of room for him to grow. He's one
of my favorite receivers in the league. You saw guys
in the backfield, they're developed and just turn into like
really good players that are doing what Josh Allen wants
them to do. That's the secret, right And I think
this is about building around Brock. This is about giving
him the chance to be comfortable. And the core of
this team is still really good.
Speaker 2 (30:57):
And I'm happy that's a team that's on the Giants schedule.
They also played the NFC North, which I think r
you Connor might be the best division in football, though
you can obviously talk about the a FFC North in
that conversation as well. How do you see that shaking out?
How much of a step back do you think the
Lions take losing their two coordinators and can the Bears
make a little bit of noise with Ben Johnson moving
over from Detroit, right.
Speaker 4 (31:17):
I think every year we go into it, like I
think this happened with the AFC West a couple of
years ago, and then the AFC North and then the
AFC in general, where we were just like, oh, this
is a gauntlet, right, and this is going to be impossible,
and then it never lives up to our expectations, you know.
And I think that that's probably the NFC North this
year to me, right, where Green Bay had a good
year last year, but they fell apart in the playoffs
(31:39):
versus the Eagles. I think you saw the distance between
them and someone like Philly. They did not upgrade their
defensive interior at all this offseason, which was befuddling to me.
They still have wide receivers practicing at cornerback, Like there's
some deficiencies there, right, And they went wide receiver heavy
in the draft, which I didn't think was the biggest
position of need for them. I could be wrong, but like,
are they going to get to eleven wins again? I
(32:00):
don't think so. Probably not. The Vikings are effectively starting
a rookie quarterback, and as good as they were last year,
and you could say, well, maybe JJ McCarthy and Sam
Darnold are as good as each other.
Speaker 3 (32:11):
Maybe maybe not.
Speaker 4 (32:12):
And it's also really hard. Brian Flores knows this, and
talk about us. The Legion of Boom knows this. So
much harder to maintain a generational defense than offense, right,
and so can Brian Flores do it?
Speaker 3 (32:24):
Again? That was as big of a reason for their
success as anything.
Speaker 4 (32:27):
So and then you got the Lions who lost both
of their coordinators, lost their center who was kind of
heart and soul that offensive line. They've had to do
a lot of turnover in the offseason. So I will
never doubt Dan Campbell. But the idea that five of
the four of these teams make the playoffs, I think.
I think we're getting a little ahead of ourselves.
Speaker 3 (32:44):
Now.
Speaker 1 (32:45):
I'm with you on that.
Speaker 2 (32:45):
And I always told the Giants fans is as tough
as the NFC East is gonna be this year. Just
be happy you're not in the AFC where you got
to deal with Josh Allen, Patrick Mahomes, Lamar Jackson, Joe Burrow.
Speaker 1 (32:56):
Oh and Justin Herbert's there too, by the way.
Speaker 2 (32:59):
And they also just had the first overall pick in
the drafting camp ward who mightded up being really good. Yeah,
like damn, I mean it's that's tough, dude.
Speaker 1 (33:08):
I know.
Speaker 3 (33:08):
And the fact that I mean like if the Ravens
were in.
Speaker 4 (33:11):
The NFC, I think they would have had three or
four Super Bowls by now. And I think that that
just is a reflection of how deep and how competitive
and how tough that division at that conference is. And
so yeah, and I mean, now, I mean look at
the West. If Sean Payton, Andy Reid, Pete Carroll, I
mean that's ridiculous, you know, and and might be Donald
or I'm sorry, I might be done't but and Jim
(33:32):
Harbaugh and it's does that's one of the greatest collection
of coaches in a single division in NFL history. And
so there's just a lot of talent. There's a lot
of talent from top to bottom.
Speaker 1 (33:44):
No, it really is. And and the Giants get the
AFC West.
Speaker 2 (33:48):
Do you think the Raiders can make a little bit
of noise there with Yes, with with Pete Carroll and
Gino Smith and you know, just think about it, Carol,
we know how good he is. And then an offense,
you have Gino with Genty and Bowers. I know they're
some questions around those three, but that is a pretty
good place to start.
Speaker 4 (34:03):
It's a good place to start, and they got the
best kid from TCU, who I think is really talented.
Speaker 3 (34:09):
The wide receiver.
Speaker 4 (34:09):
I think he could almost be that Lad McConkey, like
I'm gonna I'm gonna gobble up like, you know, one
hundred targets in a season kind of guy, and be
a really reliable guy for Gino Smith. But the secret
weapon there, I think is Chip Kelly. And everybody is saying,
you know, okay, this guy flamed out in the NFL.
Speaker 3 (34:25):
Well, he won double.
Speaker 4 (34:26):
Digit games in two seasons and and kind of was
just not emotionally ready for the job and got fired
after his one bad season and then the forty nine
ers singers ridiculous. But if you look at what he
has done since then and how coaches still revere him offensively,
and then he went from no huddle, no huddle, no
huddle to calling I think some of the fewest plays
(34:47):
in the NCAA with Ohio State last year in their
title run.
Speaker 3 (34:50):
He is evolving.
Speaker 4 (34:52):
He can always change, and he just loves zeroing in
on designing offenses and calling plays like that's what makes
him beat as a person. I think he's in his
bag right now, and I think that they're going to
sneak up on a lot of people.
Speaker 2 (35:06):
Does anyone figure out Patrick Mahomes and keep the Chiefs
out of the Super Bowl this year?
Speaker 4 (35:10):
Well, it's like, you know, you know, we had this
conversation about Tom Brady for twenty years and it just
felt like, you know, how many times can we say
if you get to him with a pass rush, he's
not going to be good?
Speaker 3 (35:22):
Right? And are as good? And that's been the truth.
Speaker 4 (35:26):
It was the truth in the COVID Super Bowl against
the Bucks, and it was the truth in the Super
Bowl last year against the Eagles. If the offensive line
falters and there's not enough going on for him immediately
in front of him to be able to get rid
of the ball, you're going to be able to win
some games and you're going to be able to beat him.
But I think they did a good job this year,
you know, drafting for offense, getting the guy from San
(35:47):
Francisco in free agency, and so I think they're going
to be right back in the conversation.
Speaker 2 (35:52):
All right, final question, Connor gave me one big thing
or storyline that you're tracking during training cam leading up
to the season that you really think could impact the
year this year in the NFL.
Speaker 4 (36:01):
HM hmm, that's a good question, I would say, speaking
of Chip Kelly, Uh, let's see how many more teams
are adopting a college style no huddle offense as we
come into this year.
Speaker 3 (36:15):
Let's keep an eye on that. I think that'd be interesting.
Speaker 1 (36:18):
Why do you think that's going to be a trend?
Speaker 4 (36:21):
I think we are at the point now where we
are so saturated with young quarterbacks and the league is
just turning over, you know, it's it's and I think
it's probably just more advantageous. And if you look at
the league like cyclically, right, like we the Eagles, it
was first it was the Patriots and O seven with
the one one word play calls, and then that came
and went, and then the Eagles came and did it,
(36:41):
and then it came and went, And a lot of
teams are going big and heavy and power because they're
trying to copy the Eagles, And so what is the
zag to that? And there are going to be some
teams that just have no choice. Their offensive line isn't
going to be big enough right there. Their running backs
aren't going to be good enough for healthy enough, and
you're gonna have to come up with some sort of
(37:02):
a counterpoint.
Speaker 3 (37:03):
And so it's like a wild shot in the dark.
But I'm like, let's let's think about that.
Speaker 1 (37:07):
No, I like that.
Speaker 2 (37:08):
I'm tracking the other side of that what you just
talked about. I think we're seeing kind of football solely
reverting back to what we saw around like two thousand
and five, two thousand and six, where all these teams
are playing these you know, shell coverages, whether it's you know,
cover two, cover four, cover six, and I think teams
are realizing, do you know how you beat those coverages
by running the football? And I think I'm curious to
(37:30):
see how much how many more teams start to lead
into the run game a little bit more where it's like,
all right, it's either deep chunk play, but if you
can't get those, then you run the football. And that
maybe is becoming more efficient than the short passing game,
which became so in vogue, you know, five six years ago.
Speaker 4 (37:47):
Yeah, I mean a lot of this stuff is dying
out just based on how the defenses around the league
are covering it and The other part of it too,
is like what Brian Flores did with the Vikings was
and put on tape for everybody, was we're short circuiting
your communication and so we're we're understanding what you're doing
pre snap, and then we are going to put guys
(38:08):
in places where we know it's gonna mess you up.
Speaker 3 (38:10):
That just makes a.
Speaker 4 (38:11):
Pass such a hard task to complete. It's like, why
wouldn't you just run the ball? You know, like they
put nine guys in the box.
Speaker 3 (38:18):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (38:19):
And the other fun part of it too is that
you know, it was such a zone run heavy league.
I think we're also seeing teams ball away from that, right,
We're seeing a lot more gap seem stuff.
Speaker 1 (38:26):
We're duo, you know.
Speaker 2 (38:27):
I think teams figured out how to deal with the
outside zone run finally, and now you know, by putting
a lot of fast and how many how many two
hundred and twenty five pounds linebackers are starting in the
NFL now when Land and Collins came to the league,
that's how much he weighed as a safety, and how
these guys are being a linebacker. So I think just
more power run game and see how defense is now
(38:48):
kind of zigged to that zag.
Speaker 4 (38:50):
Passing games were so extravagant for so long, and now
you apply that extravagance to the run game.
Speaker 3 (38:55):
Like you watched Notre Dame last year.
Speaker 4 (38:56):
They had a quarterback who literally couldn't throw the ball
and they made it to any national championship game based
on because you're borring from the academy, you're borrowing from
Kyle Shanahan, you're barring from Sean McVay.
Speaker 3 (39:06):
It has to be that diverse.
Speaker 4 (39:07):
An offensive line needs to know five or six different
schools of thought.
Speaker 2 (39:11):
Connor, tell the folks about everything you're doing. Anything you
want them to know about the pods, written content you
name it.
Speaker 4 (39:17):
Yeah, SI dot com and Sports Illustrated the magazine. Like
you know, I'm hearing a lot of people subscribing again,
which is good. Like we get to a news stand,
you buy it. It's a lot of fun. You're not
staring at a screen all the time.
Speaker 3 (39:30):
And then pods.
Speaker 4 (39:31):
We got the MMQB podcast on the Sports Illustrated Network
with myself and Albert Breer and uh yeah, just everywhere. Right,
We're gonna be talking about football on every platform imaginable
for the next eight months.
Speaker 3 (39:45):
Isn't that amazing. It's great.
Speaker 2 (39:46):
I mean, the first game is less than two weeks away, man,
I mean, it's it's crazy.
Speaker 1 (39:50):
We're getting there. It's fun, Connor, this is a lot
of fun. Man. Let's catch up soon. If you come
out to camp, we'll have you on again, and let's stay.
Speaker 3 (39:57):
In touch, my friend, all right, looking forward to it.
Speaker 2 (40:00):
Connor Orr from Sports Illustrated on the Giants Total Podcast,
brought to you by Citizens' Official Bank of the Giants.
Speaker 1 (40:04):
We'll see you next time. From the Hackensack Marine Hills
Podcast Studio. Keep getting better.
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