July 2, 2025 • 18 mins
On this episode of the Giants Huddle podcast, John Schmeelk is joined by the Penn State Defensive Line Coach, Deion Barnes, to discuss the skillset of Abdul Carter, his ability to get to the quarterback, and how he could fit in with Brian Burns and Kayvon Thibodeaux.
:00 - Abdul Carter’s pass rush moves
4:35 - Studying his opponent
8:08 - Playing on the edge
13:05 - His approach to the game
15:30 - Coachability
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
It's time to get inside the Giants Hut. Let's go,
Let's go Giant, the Giants Bubbling, give me some job.
Part of the Giants podcast Network. Let's roll. Welcome to
another edition of the Johnson Podcast, brought to you by
Citizens Official Bank at the Giants. Today, we're going to
be joined by Penn State defensive line coach Dion Barnes
and continue to talk to all the assistant coaches for
(00:20):
the Giants draft picks this year and kind of get
the insight into the college career and what they are
all about. Coming to you from the Hackensack Maritney Hell
Podcast that you'll keep getting better and of course you
should go back and check out all the other interviews
we've done with these position coaches talking about these Giants rookies.
You really get some great insight stuff that I hadn't
known or heard about before to really get you to
(00:40):
know these players. And now we're joined by the defensive
line coach for the Penn State Niley Lions. He coached
up Abdul Carter among other really good pass rushers as
well that have come out of that Penn State program
the last couple of years. Deon Barnes coach, how are
you appreciate you giving us some time?
Speaker 2 (00:55):
Appreciate it? Tom doing great? Doing great? Trump, get the
next one out here.
Speaker 1 (01:01):
So now let me let me level set first. You
had that doue in your room for just that one year.
Speaker 3 (01:07):
Correct, it's all right.
Speaker 1 (01:09):
So how quickly was he able to mentally adjust and
maybe some of the different responsibilities and jobs that he
had as an edge player versus when he played off
ball linebacker?
Speaker 3 (01:18):
Uh, the plays was easy for him. He knew.
Speaker 2 (01:21):
I mean, he a smart kid. He knew how to
be able to adjust to the plays. But it was
just the feel and the reps that he needed. And
I would say after spring ball he started understanding even
more training camps where he fully took off and you
could see the difference as far as you know, him
actually getting comfortable being in a position, knowing the angles
and understanding and run in a pass box.
Speaker 1 (01:43):
How does he learn? Is he more of a watch
tape guy? Is he a whiteboard guy? Does he have
to get out onto the field and repid before he
really gets it? What kind of learner is he?
Speaker 2 (01:53):
I mean the me and room he catches it ass
So you put it on the board or you talk
about it in the film. He catches that fast and
then uh, we get on the field. He learned from experience,
so the play, like I said, the place is not
hard for him.
Speaker 3 (02:09):
That's the easy part for him.
Speaker 2 (02:10):
It's just you know, the small adjustment as far as
the techniques and stuff like that. That's what he got
to learn. And that just comes from doing and the
muscle memory with him. So he really a quick learner.
Speaker 1 (02:21):
You mentioned, you know, picking up the techniques and stuff.
And the one thing that amazed me when I turned
on the tape getting ready for the draft and I
watched all his pass rush stuff, you know, and I
knew he was only at an edge guy for one year,
so I was expecting one of these guys that you know,
wins with speed a lot, gets around the edge. And
then I'm going through it. I'm making my notes and
I'm like, all right, there's one move, there's another move,
there's another move, there's another move. For this guy to
(02:43):
have a full bag of pass rush moves in just
one year at the position, how was he able to
pick up that much so quickly having only been in
your room for that one year.
Speaker 2 (02:54):
I mean, that's his attention to detail and the work ethic.
I mean, that's what goes into it. So he was
on my hip the whole time, like, coach, what else
I need to learn? And then he will practice that
before and after practice. So it was all the extra
work that he put in to be able to master
all that stuff. That's why you see him pick it
up quickly.
Speaker 1 (03:11):
Now he had done some of that stuff in high school, right,
So how much of that stuff kind of came naturally
back to him given what he had, you know, given
how he had been on the edge of the past
a little bit.
Speaker 2 (03:20):
I mean, and when he was playing with the sou
he was that linebacker most of the time, but he
was just a natural pass rusher.
Speaker 3 (03:25):
I mean, God gave him a gift.
Speaker 2 (03:27):
But the things that he already came with was was
that get off his been And really all I told
him was the couple moves and techniques to be able
to help him, you know, excel as far as to
the quarterback a little bit faster. But now you you
can't teach to get off. You can't teach that. Then
that's you're just pointing out things that make him better.
So he came with those type of tools already.
Speaker 1 (03:48):
What was some of the stuff that he picked up quickest.
Was it was it the hand uses, the chop stuff,
was it? What was it kind of like the dip
and the rip move to come back up. What was
some of the stuff that he kind of picked up quickest,
And what were some of the things that were maybe
more of a process that you would to work through
with him.
Speaker 2 (04:03):
I think the things he picked up the quickest was
you know, just understanding the angle towards the quarterback because
you know the hands. That took him a little bit time.
But once he got it down, that was that was
easy for him after that. So it took him a
little bit as far as working their hands with the
double swipes and you know, the chops and all of
us just knowing when to use it. Basically, the harder
(04:23):
part for him was the technique as far as the
run game, because that's just that's more footwork and handwork.
So it took him a little bit to be able
to finalize that. So I think in training camp that's
where we picked it up. All right, when I'm going
to gainst the tight and this is what my footwork
looked like, It's where my hands should be at and
he started getting a little bit better adj Justice as
far as how to play the run game. And obviously
you know he had twenty three and a half TA
(04:44):
tags for Lost last year, so he adjusted well to that.
Speaker 1 (04:48):
Yeah, we we haven't really seen the power yet this offseason.
I want to get to the run game in a second,
because the pads aren't on and for spring pack this
for us and I a lot a lot of contacts,
so we haven't I haven't seen the bull rushing person yet.
Where's he in terms of his power rush? We obviously
seen the quickness, the speed, the suddenness, some of the
hand stuff you talked about. Where is he in your
opinion in terms of his bull rush and having that
(05:09):
compliment to the speed and bend that he obviously has
on the outside.
Speaker 3 (05:13):
You'll see it once he'll get vertical setters.
Speaker 2 (05:15):
That's another thing I think that he understands well is
when you get a certain set with the go to,
I think if you get a vertical setup, we had
really hadn't seen it much vertical setup. I remember UCLA
last year was the first time somebody really tried to
kick out and try to beat the speed guy, and
he went speed the power on that guy, and you
can see he can be able to implement that in
his game. So it just depends on the set. So
(05:37):
if he got a guy that you feel like short
set or a guy he could beat quickly inside, he's
gonna do that.
Speaker 1 (05:42):
Is he good at studying his opponent during the week
and finding some of those weaknesses that he can exploit
on a weekly basis.
Speaker 2 (05:48):
Yes, sir, I mean that's that's all he do. He
loved ball, so that's all he's gonna do is sit
and watch ball. He probably gonna be in there all
day watching different ways. He gonna come up with game
plans and stuff like that himself. I mean I think
he did that. Not I think he did do that,
Like he was, Hey, coach, we should run his game.
I've seen this when these guys did that. That's that's
type of stuff he brings to the game. He prove
(06:10):
student of the game.
Speaker 1 (06:12):
And you talked about his instincts right how naturally during
the game when you know he gets the sidline after
a series, picking things up, seeing it on the field,
relaying it to the to the coach, to his teammates.
All right, Well, you know what they're doing this to us.
Maybe we should try this, Maybe we should try that.
Speaker 2 (06:28):
Yeah, he do a good job of that. I think
during the game he more seeing what I see. You know,
he just seen. He would come to my come to me,
see what do you see? Coach, I got this? How
do I counter that? So I think in the game
time he like, all right, I tried what I had
to try. Coach, what you think? And then he'll he'll
do what I tell Like for example, we're playing against
I can't remember the team, but he kept getting chiped
(06:49):
by the running back. Then he understood, like, coach, how
do I beat this chip? And then he just starts
spinning off the chip when I told him spending when
you're about to get the chip by the running back.
So he do a good job of listening during the
game and try to adjust to.
Speaker 1 (06:59):
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Speaker 4 (07:12):
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Hey, I can also talk long care.
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Speaker 1 (07:28):
All right, you mentioned the run game stuff, you know,
you mentioned the tackles for loss, and I think he
did a great job when I watched him leading up
to the draft. He shoots gaps really well. Right, He's
able to shoot the gap, get up field and get
into the backfield. Where How didn't you see his progress?
And I think that probably did, you know, come from
some of the outside linebacker stuff, seeing those holes and
hitting them quickly. How did he do in terms of
setting the edge really, you know, using his length, getting
(07:50):
out on the edge, keeping contained when teams were kind
of running that outside zone to his hide.
Speaker 2 (07:55):
I thought he did a good job at it. He
understands angles really well. I keep going back to that. So, yeah,
if that guy's coming hard to him and he know
he quirker than the guy, he gonna go up and
under that guy. But when you get a just a
normal setting, he got to set the edge. He had
no problem doing that when the tight end try to
down block him, he had no problem doing that.
Speaker 3 (08:13):
He was really good.
Speaker 2 (08:13):
He's a small like he might look like a smaller guy,
but he's a powerful guy.
Speaker 1 (08:18):
Yeah, it's funny. I was talking to Jermain and Luminor
the other day. He's our starting right tackle, and I
was asking him about what it was like blocking that
duel and he said, look, he actually does remind me
in terms of his movements. Goes with Michael a little bit.
He said to me, the thing that sends about Michael
Parsons is that he's, you know, two fifty, but he
is the power of like a two hundred and eighty
pound guy. And that's what really makes the difference. For
(08:40):
these guys that are great athletes, they also have to
have that power quotion.
Speaker 3 (08:43):
Right. Yeah, he is explosive in his hands.
Speaker 2 (08:46):
He got powerful hands which he gonna create knock back
every time by doing that.
Speaker 1 (08:51):
Absolutely, No, I'm within him that one hundred percent. What
part of his game, Coach, as an edge player, do
you think was enhanced by his experience playing outside linebacker?
How did that help him be a better edge player?
His experience being off the ball and maybe seeing things
in a more holistic way.
Speaker 2 (09:08):
Formation recognition, understanding what's coming to him, understanding when it's
gonna be a pass, when it's gonna be a run, when
the ball is coming to him, or when it's going away.
Speaker 3 (09:16):
I think that helped him out a lot.
Speaker 2 (09:17):
And then being closer to the ball, having that being
on the backside of and then being close to the ball,
now he knows exactly how he can make the play
on these to a certain place.
Speaker 1 (09:27):
Did did he? I'm sure when he was an off
ball guy, he would understand what the whole defense was doing. Right.
Has he brought that approach to being an edge guy
where he's not just all right, this is what I
got to do is play. This is my job. Does
he understand everything that's going on around him, which I
think in a lot of ways can then help you
make adjustments over the course of the game as teams
start to, you know, make their adjustments and game plan
against you.
Speaker 2 (09:47):
I can't speak on if he know corners and safeties
and all others.
Speaker 3 (09:50):
Yeah, of course, of course, but he does as.
Speaker 2 (09:52):
Far as, like you know, with a similar system of
if he hears something, he gonna have with that type
of recall to remember, you know, lineback's supposed to be
here where the gaps. I think he know exactly where
everybody as far as accountable in the gaps.
Speaker 1 (10:05):
We talked about him as an edge player, and you
kind of reference him too. I just think as a blitzer.
And the Giants have a couple of the really good
edge guys, right, They have Keveon Thibadeau, they have Brian Burns.
So I think on third down, it wouldn't shock me
if the Giants, you know, line them up off ball,
line them up over the center, line them up in
a B gap something like that to try to get
some mismatches, get all three guys on the field. How
is he in terms of an instinctual blitzer and rushing
(10:28):
off the ball, not just from the edge spots.
Speaker 3 (10:30):
I think that's one of the best things he do.
Speaker 2 (10:33):
No matter who's block them, sent them, guard, running back,
whoever it is, you just try and create a one
on one, create one on one. He's just gonna fill
with your leverage adding go against it, and he gonna
use his hips and his and his been to be
able to beat you. I think that's the best thing
that he does, is you just you know he gonna
He's he got the ability to be one win.
Speaker 3 (10:50):
He's one on one no matter who he lines up against.
Speaker 1 (10:53):
I know you mentioned it before. Does he have a
different set of moves based on all right, well I'm
going against the tackle this time he's a little bit longer,
or he's a little bit bigger, all right, but this play,
I'm against the little like phone booth guard or a
little shorter arms. Does he a justice rush plan based
on where he's lined up against that opponent? In any
giving the game a lot.
Speaker 2 (11:10):
Of it is phil You could tell he feels when
certain certain guys is going set.
Speaker 3 (11:15):
But yeah, he definitely he got a plan.
Speaker 2 (11:18):
And then he'll sometimes he'll try some things, you know
what I'm saying, Like you'll see him spin and you'll
see him do different things that he see that he
could be able to do. So it all depends on
who the guy is. But like you said, but it's
a feel he's going to him and attacking. If you
feel like the guy overset and gonna win, inside, I
feel they could be the one to ass you're gonna
do that or you're gonna play with his feet. You
(11:39):
see him like a basketball player at the times use
his feet to be able jab inside to come out.
So it all depends on, you know, the leverage that
they got given.
Speaker 1 (11:47):
How would you a couple of the guys you had
that came out the previous couple of years, Chob Robinson
and thest Isaac both really good pass rushers too. How
is he different than than those guys and you? And
if you want to throw Mike into the mix, you
can do that too.
Speaker 3 (11:59):
Yeah, I wouldn't hear Micah, but yeah, I didn't think
he were him.
Speaker 2 (12:03):
Yeah he's I think uh at Duel was could play
anywhere as far as we put him with center wherever
it was, and he had different speed. I think Chopped
his get off was really similar, probably better than that duels,
but at Duel's get off and his been is the lead.
That's one thing I remember. Chopp came to that game
we played against Notre Dame. It was like, Yo, Stull
(12:25):
could ben something crazy like I ain't never seen nothing
like this before. So I think that that part of
his game. And we're talking about Chop who can run
damn there on the ground. And then A Lisa was
really good with his hands, good with using his length.
Speaker 3 (12:39):
That part of the game.
Speaker 2 (12:40):
I felt like a Lisa is really good at but
with Chopp, excuse me, what a duel? He can He
can do it all. Obviously we'll see the power, but
he can do it all. So I think that's it's
just different games for different body size to try.
Speaker 3 (12:54):
Kind of hard, uh, comparing.
Speaker 2 (12:57):
A Lisa and at duel because it's just a different
body types, different things you do.
Speaker 3 (13:01):
How to get in here?
Speaker 4 (13:02):
If you're lined up here, you gotta go over the
middle with at the score great?
Speaker 3 (13:07):
How do we make that happen?
Speaker 4 (13:08):
I don't know, but Tennyson does makes sense of your
money with citizens Official Bank of Eli manning.
Speaker 1 (13:16):
His approach to the game, and I think we saw
it right. He played hurt late in the year for
you guys, but he still came out at one of
his best games of the year while he was playing
Hurt late in the year and just talking to him, coach,
he has a seriousness and an edge about him as
a football player, which I think when you're talking about
defensive linemen and and edge players, that's what you want.
Can you just kind of paint a picture for the
(13:37):
fans out there just how he approaches the game and
his general attitude towards the game of football.
Speaker 2 (13:44):
He wants to be the best. He won to rise
at the most opportune I mean, excuse me. The biggest games.
His mindset is, I'm going to try to make plays
to help us win. The biggest thing is he wants
to be win. So you're gonna see him frustrated and
he gonna call people out when nothing doesn't align with winning.
Speaker 3 (14:03):
So he is a winner. So any everything that.
Speaker 2 (14:06):
Allives will allignes will winning, and everything that has to
do with winning.
Speaker 3 (14:10):
That's what he's all about.
Speaker 1 (14:12):
Is he more of a big talking leader guy or
is he more of a lead by example type of guy.
Speaker 2 (14:17):
He's gonna lead by example. He's not gonna talk that much.
He only gonna talk when it's needed.
Speaker 1 (14:23):
Okay, I think that. How about in the meeting room
when he you know, is is he very vocal in
the meeting rooms with guys. Is here a lot of
conversation with him or is it more just kind of
locked and unfocused and then writing his notes and kind
of learning what he needs to learn.
Speaker 2 (14:34):
He talked again, that's the when he talk when he
is needed. As far as something that we can help
a younger guy out. But besides that, he's just trying
to take all the information. If he sees something that
he doesn't agree with, he'll say something on it. Besides that,
he's trying to figure out how he can, you know,
be the best on the field. And that's that's truly
his mindset. He wants to be the best on the field.
(14:55):
He want to leave a legacy to be the best
so and he wants to win.
Speaker 1 (14:59):
As he up your program, what were some of the
areas that you were still really locking in with him
on and fine tuning with him in terms of his game.
Speaker 2 (15:06):
I mean, I just like a thousand things that I
can go through right now as a D line coach,
you know, so I'm very you know, I'm gonna critique
every part of his game. So that's hard to say
right now because that's a lot of things. You know
what I'm saying, not that he was lacking on some things,
but I'm a perfectionist. I want to be perfect everything.
So that's kind of that's a lot of things right there.
You know, I would love him be better in the ranking.
(15:28):
I love for him be even more dominant past rush,
you know. So you're talking about small, little minute things
that I'm always critiquing and trying to coach, so it's
always gonna be something.
Speaker 1 (15:39):
No, absolutely, any any piece of advice that you gave
him specifically heading to that next level you would experience
at the next level with the with the Jets, right
and the Chiefs. Any advice that you gave him that
you said, look, this is some of the things that
you're either gonna have to improve on or change or
do differently when you get to the NFL level in
order to have the level of success that he wants
to have.
Speaker 2 (16:00):
Always craft no matter what you craft at all times,
and you know, be yourself. Don't try to do anything
else but be yourself. And then about being himself. Is
a hard working dude that loves football. So that's Rochester
small things. You know, I'm going to critique when I
got a critique, so when I go on PFF when
I watched the film, I'm going send them messages and
(16:21):
stuff like that. But besides that, just be himself and
work as hard as he possibly can. That's that's the
biggest thing I told him.
Speaker 1 (16:28):
And I imagine he seems like a guy that's a
self motivator, right that he's gonna look at the stuff
on his own, see the stuff he needs a critique,
and he's gonna take care of that even when he's
not at the facility.
Speaker 3 (16:37):
Yeah, for sure, that's definitely him.
Speaker 1 (16:40):
That's awesome. I got two more for your coach.
Speaker 3 (16:42):
One.
Speaker 1 (16:42):
Do you have any just kind of stories or anecdotes
of your experiences with with Abdul that you think kind
of gives fans a good feel for the type of
guy or a person that he is, and and just
what he's gonna bring to the giants in the locker
room and on the field.
Speaker 2 (16:57):
I'll probably go to that not your damn game when
you know Showlder really bother him, couldn't use it at all.
It was a play where you know, I'm thinking he's tired.
He waved me off, like, coach, don't take me out
this game. He's a competitor, so he again it's all
about winning for him and being the best. So in
that moment, you just see that he was on a
(17:19):
different type of mindset where he's like, I might be tired,
might be hurt, but I want to win this game,
so do not take me out in this situation.
Speaker 1 (17:26):
That's terrific. And then the final one I want to
get give me some insight into Penn State practice here
when I do a car of God here. He just
talked to the media and he says, in a very
teammate friendly way, I have some unfinished business with THEO
Johnson on the practice field. Can you give us a
window into what the battles are like between those two
guys going up against each other at Penn State practice.
Speaker 3 (17:45):
I mean it's some violence going on.
Speaker 2 (17:47):
So you know, it's a lot of practices I could
point too, but it is some violence going on and
it's gonna be violent at them practices.
Speaker 3 (17:55):
Want to pass.
Speaker 1 (17:55):
Come on, coach, that's awesome man. Anything we missed that
that that that you think and should know about Abdul,
that that we did not touch on.
Speaker 3 (18:04):
Nah, I mean that kid is about winning and he
go do everything you can do to that.
Speaker 1 (18:10):
Coach. Dion Barnes, defensive line coach for Penn State coach.
We appreciate the time, man, Thanks so much. Oh great
stuff right there. Fantastic from defensive line coach for the
Penn State Nittley Lions, Dion Barnes. Great stuff, really good
stuff on Abdul that I wasn't aware of, and we
appreciate him joining us right here in the Hackensack Marine
Healths Podcast studio. Keep getting better.
It's time to get inside the Giants Hut. Let's go,
Let's go Giant, the Giants Bubbling, give me some job.
Part of the Giants podcast Network. Let's roll. Welcome to
another edition of the Johnson Podcast, brought to you by
Citizens Official Bank at the Giants. Today, we're going to
be joined by Penn State defensive line coach Dion Barnes
and continue to talk to all the assistant coaches for
(00:20):
the Giants draft picks this year and kind of get
the insight into the college career and what they are
all about. Coming to you from the Hackensack Maritney Hell
Podcast that you'll keep getting better and of course you
should go back and check out all the other interviews
we've done with these position coaches talking about these Giants rookies.
You really get some great insight stuff that I hadn't
known or heard about before to really get you to
(00:40):
know these players. And now we're joined by the defensive
line coach for the Penn State Niley Lions. He coached
up Abdul Carter among other really good pass rushers as
well that have come out of that Penn State program
the last couple of years. Deon Barnes coach, how are
you appreciate you giving us some time?
Speaker 2 (00:55):
Appreciate it? Tom doing great? Doing great? Trump, get the
next one out here.
Speaker 1 (01:01):
So now let me let me level set first. You
had that doue in your room for just that one year.
Speaker 3 (01:07):
Correct, it's all right.
Speaker 1 (01:09):
So how quickly was he able to mentally adjust and
maybe some of the different responsibilities and jobs that he
had as an edge player versus when he played off
ball linebacker?
Speaker 3 (01:18):
Uh, the plays was easy for him. He knew.
Speaker 2 (01:21):
I mean, he a smart kid. He knew how to
be able to adjust to the plays. But it was
just the feel and the reps that he needed. And
I would say after spring ball he started understanding even
more training camps where he fully took off and you
could see the difference as far as you know, him
actually getting comfortable being in a position, knowing the angles
and understanding and run in a pass box.
Speaker 1 (01:43):
How does he learn? Is he more of a watch
tape guy? Is he a whiteboard guy? Does he have
to get out onto the field and repid before he
really gets it? What kind of learner is he?
Speaker 2 (01:53):
I mean the me and room he catches it ass
So you put it on the board or you talk
about it in the film. He catches that fast and
then uh, we get on the field. He learned from experience,
so the play, like I said, the place is not
hard for him.
Speaker 3 (02:09):
That's the easy part for him.
Speaker 2 (02:10):
It's just you know, the small adjustment as far as
the techniques and stuff like that. That's what he got
to learn. And that just comes from doing and the
muscle memory with him. So he really a quick learner.
Speaker 1 (02:21):
You mentioned, you know, picking up the techniques and stuff.
And the one thing that amazed me when I turned
on the tape getting ready for the draft and I
watched all his pass rush stuff, you know, and I
knew he was only at an edge guy for one year,
so I was expecting one of these guys that you know,
wins with speed a lot, gets around the edge. And
then I'm going through it. I'm making my notes and
I'm like, all right, there's one move, there's another move,
there's another move, there's another move. For this guy to
(02:43):
have a full bag of pass rush moves in just
one year at the position, how was he able to
pick up that much so quickly having only been in
your room for that one year.
Speaker 2 (02:54):
I mean, that's his attention to detail and the work ethic.
I mean, that's what goes into it. So he was
on my hip the whole time, like, coach, what else
I need to learn? And then he will practice that
before and after practice. So it was all the extra
work that he put in to be able to master
all that stuff. That's why you see him pick it
up quickly.
Speaker 1 (03:11):
Now he had done some of that stuff in high school, right,
So how much of that stuff kind of came naturally
back to him given what he had, you know, given
how he had been on the edge of the past
a little bit.
Speaker 2 (03:20):
I mean, and when he was playing with the sou
he was that linebacker most of the time, but he
was just a natural pass rusher.
Speaker 3 (03:25):
I mean, God gave him a gift.
Speaker 2 (03:27):
But the things that he already came with was was
that get off his been And really all I told
him was the couple moves and techniques to be able
to help him, you know, excel as far as to
the quarterback a little bit faster. But now you you
can't teach to get off. You can't teach that. Then
that's you're just pointing out things that make him better.
So he came with those type of tools already.
Speaker 1 (03:48):
What was some of the stuff that he picked up quickest.
Was it was it the hand uses, the chop stuff,
was it? What was it kind of like the dip
and the rip move to come back up. What was
some of the stuff that he kind of picked up quickest,
And what were some of the things that were maybe
more of a process that you would to work through
with him.
Speaker 2 (04:03):
I think the things he picked up the quickest was
you know, just understanding the angle towards the quarterback because
you know the hands. That took him a little bit time.
But once he got it down, that was that was
easy for him after that. So it took him a
little bit as far as working their hands with the
double swipes and you know, the chops and all of
us just knowing when to use it. Basically, the harder
(04:23):
part for him was the technique as far as the
run game, because that's just that's more footwork and handwork.
So it took him a little bit to be able
to finalize that. So I think in training camp that's
where we picked it up. All right, when I'm going
to gainst the tight and this is what my footwork
looked like, It's where my hands should be at and
he started getting a little bit better adj Justice as
far as how to play the run game. And obviously
you know he had twenty three and a half TA
(04:44):
tags for Lost last year, so he adjusted well to that.
Speaker 1 (04:48):
Yeah, we we haven't really seen the power yet this offseason.
I want to get to the run game in a second,
because the pads aren't on and for spring pack this
for us and I a lot a lot of contacts,
so we haven't I haven't seen the bull rushing person yet.
Where's he in terms of his power rush? We obviously
seen the quickness, the speed, the suddenness, some of the
hand stuff you talked about. Where is he in your
opinion in terms of his bull rush and having that
(05:09):
compliment to the speed and bend that he obviously has
on the outside.
Speaker 3 (05:13):
You'll see it once he'll get vertical setters.
Speaker 2 (05:15):
That's another thing I think that he understands well is
when you get a certain set with the go to,
I think if you get a vertical setup, we had
really hadn't seen it much vertical setup. I remember UCLA
last year was the first time somebody really tried to
kick out and try to beat the speed guy, and
he went speed the power on that guy, and you
can see he can be able to implement that in
his game. So it just depends on the set. So
(05:37):
if he got a guy that you feel like short
set or a guy he could beat quickly inside, he's
gonna do that.
Speaker 1 (05:42):
Is he good at studying his opponent during the week
and finding some of those weaknesses that he can exploit
on a weekly basis.
Speaker 2 (05:48):
Yes, sir, I mean that's that's all he do. He
loved ball, so that's all he's gonna do is sit
and watch ball. He probably gonna be in there all
day watching different ways. He gonna come up with game
plans and stuff like that himself. I mean I think
he did that. Not I think he did do that,
Like he was, Hey, coach, we should run his game.
I've seen this when these guys did that. That's that's
type of stuff he brings to the game. He prove
(06:10):
student of the game.
Speaker 1 (06:12):
And you talked about his instincts right how naturally during
the game when you know he gets the sidline after
a series, picking things up, seeing it on the field,
relaying it to the to the coach, to his teammates.
All right, Well, you know what they're doing this to us.
Maybe we should try this, Maybe we should try that.
Speaker 2 (06:28):
Yeah, he do a good job of that. I think
during the game he more seeing what I see. You know,
he just seen. He would come to my come to me,
see what do you see? Coach, I got this? How
do I counter that? So I think in the game
time he like, all right, I tried what I had
to try. Coach, what you think? And then he'll he'll
do what I tell Like for example, we're playing against
I can't remember the team, but he kept getting chiped
(06:49):
by the running back. Then he understood, like, coach, how
do I beat this chip? And then he just starts
spinning off the chip when I told him spending when
you're about to get the chip by the running back.
So he do a good job of listening during the
game and try to adjust to.
Speaker 1 (06:59):
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Speaker 4 (07:12):
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Speaker 1 (07:28):
All right, you mentioned the run game stuff, you know,
you mentioned the tackles for loss, and I think he
did a great job when I watched him leading up
to the draft. He shoots gaps really well. Right, He's
able to shoot the gap, get up field and get
into the backfield. Where How didn't you see his progress?
And I think that probably did, you know, come from
some of the outside linebacker stuff, seeing those holes and
hitting them quickly. How did he do in terms of
setting the edge really, you know, using his length, getting
(07:50):
out on the edge, keeping contained when teams were kind
of running that outside zone to his hide.
Speaker 2 (07:55):
I thought he did a good job at it. He
understands angles really well. I keep going back to that. So, yeah,
if that guy's coming hard to him and he know
he quirker than the guy, he gonna go up and
under that guy. But when you get a just a
normal setting, he got to set the edge. He had
no problem doing that when the tight end try to
down block him, he had no problem doing that.
Speaker 3 (08:13):
He was really good.
Speaker 2 (08:13):
He's a small like he might look like a smaller guy,
but he's a powerful guy.
Speaker 1 (08:18):
Yeah, it's funny. I was talking to Jermain and Luminor
the other day. He's our starting right tackle, and I
was asking him about what it was like blocking that
duel and he said, look, he actually does remind me
in terms of his movements. Goes with Michael a little bit.
He said to me, the thing that sends about Michael
Parsons is that he's, you know, two fifty, but he
is the power of like a two hundred and eighty
pound guy. And that's what really makes the difference. For
(08:40):
these guys that are great athletes, they also have to
have that power quotion.
Speaker 3 (08:43):
Right. Yeah, he is explosive in his hands.
Speaker 2 (08:46):
He got powerful hands which he gonna create knock back
every time by doing that.
Speaker 1 (08:51):
Absolutely, No, I'm within him that one hundred percent. What
part of his game, Coach, as an edge player, do
you think was enhanced by his experience playing outside linebacker?
How did that help him be a better edge player?
His experience being off the ball and maybe seeing things
in a more holistic way.
Speaker 2 (09:08):
Formation recognition, understanding what's coming to him, understanding when it's
gonna be a pass, when it's gonna be a run, when
the ball is coming to him, or when it's going away.
Speaker 3 (09:16):
I think that helped him out a lot.
Speaker 2 (09:17):
And then being closer to the ball, having that being
on the backside of and then being close to the ball,
now he knows exactly how he can make the play
on these to a certain place.
Speaker 1 (09:27):
Did did he? I'm sure when he was an off
ball guy, he would understand what the whole defense was doing. Right.
Has he brought that approach to being an edge guy
where he's not just all right, this is what I
got to do is play. This is my job. Does
he understand everything that's going on around him, which I
think in a lot of ways can then help you
make adjustments over the course of the game as teams
start to, you know, make their adjustments and game plan
against you.
Speaker 2 (09:47):
I can't speak on if he know corners and safeties
and all others.
Speaker 3 (09:50):
Yeah, of course, of course, but he does as.
Speaker 2 (09:52):
Far as, like you know, with a similar system of
if he hears something, he gonna have with that type
of recall to remember, you know, lineback's supposed to be
here where the gaps. I think he know exactly where
everybody as far as accountable in the gaps.
Speaker 1 (10:05):
We talked about him as an edge player, and you
kind of reference him too. I just think as a blitzer.
And the Giants have a couple of the really good
edge guys, right, They have Keveon Thibadeau, they have Brian Burns.
So I think on third down, it wouldn't shock me
if the Giants, you know, line them up off ball,
line them up over the center, line them up in
a B gap something like that to try to get
some mismatches, get all three guys on the field. How
is he in terms of an instinctual blitzer and rushing
(10:28):
off the ball, not just from the edge spots.
Speaker 3 (10:30):
I think that's one of the best things he do.
Speaker 2 (10:33):
No matter who's block them, sent them, guard, running back,
whoever it is, you just try and create a one
on one, create one on one. He's just gonna fill
with your leverage adding go against it, and he gonna
use his hips and his and his been to be
able to beat you. I think that's the best thing
that he does, is you just you know he gonna
He's he got the ability to be one win.
Speaker 3 (10:50):
He's one on one no matter who he lines up against.
Speaker 1 (10:53):
I know you mentioned it before. Does he have a
different set of moves based on all right, well I'm
going against the tackle this time he's a little bit longer,
or he's a little bit bigger, all right, but this play,
I'm against the little like phone booth guard or a
little shorter arms. Does he a justice rush plan based
on where he's lined up against that opponent? In any
giving the game a lot.
Speaker 2 (11:10):
Of it is phil You could tell he feels when
certain certain guys is going set.
Speaker 3 (11:15):
But yeah, he definitely he got a plan.
Speaker 2 (11:18):
And then he'll sometimes he'll try some things, you know
what I'm saying, Like you'll see him spin and you'll
see him do different things that he see that he
could be able to do. So it all depends on
who the guy is. But like you said, but it's
a feel he's going to him and attacking. If you
feel like the guy overset and gonna win, inside, I
feel they could be the one to ass you're gonna
do that or you're gonna play with his feet. You
(11:39):
see him like a basketball player at the times use
his feet to be able jab inside to come out.
So it all depends on, you know, the leverage that
they got given.
Speaker 1 (11:47):
How would you a couple of the guys you had
that came out the previous couple of years, Chob Robinson
and thest Isaac both really good pass rushers too. How
is he different than than those guys and you? And
if you want to throw Mike into the mix, you
can do that too.
Speaker 3 (11:59):
Yeah, I wouldn't hear Micah, but yeah, I didn't think
he were him.
Speaker 2 (12:03):
Yeah he's I think uh at Duel was could play
anywhere as far as we put him with center wherever
it was, and he had different speed. I think Chopped
his get off was really similar, probably better than that duels,
but at Duel's get off and his been is the lead.
That's one thing I remember. Chopp came to that game
we played against Notre Dame. It was like, Yo, Stull
(12:25):
could ben something crazy like I ain't never seen nothing
like this before. So I think that that part of
his game. And we're talking about Chop who can run
damn there on the ground. And then A Lisa was
really good with his hands, good with using his length.
Speaker 3 (12:39):
That part of the game.
Speaker 2 (12:40):
I felt like a Lisa is really good at but
with Chopp, excuse me, what a duel? He can He
can do it all. Obviously we'll see the power, but
he can do it all. So I think that's it's
just different games for different body size to try.
Speaker 3 (12:54):
Kind of hard, uh, comparing.
Speaker 2 (12:57):
A Lisa and at duel because it's just a different
body types, different things you do.
Speaker 3 (13:01):
How to get in here?
Speaker 4 (13:02):
If you're lined up here, you gotta go over the
middle with at the score great?
Speaker 3 (13:07):
How do we make that happen?
Speaker 4 (13:08):
I don't know, but Tennyson does makes sense of your
money with citizens Official Bank of Eli manning.
Speaker 1 (13:16):
His approach to the game, and I think we saw
it right. He played hurt late in the year for
you guys, but he still came out at one of
his best games of the year while he was playing
Hurt late in the year and just talking to him, coach,
he has a seriousness and an edge about him as
a football player, which I think when you're talking about
defensive linemen and and edge players, that's what you want.
Can you just kind of paint a picture for the
(13:37):
fans out there just how he approaches the game and
his general attitude towards the game of football.
Speaker 2 (13:44):
He wants to be the best. He won to rise
at the most opportune I mean, excuse me. The biggest games.
His mindset is, I'm going to try to make plays
to help us win. The biggest thing is he wants
to be win. So you're gonna see him frustrated and
he gonna call people out when nothing doesn't align with winning.
Speaker 3 (14:03):
So he is a winner. So any everything that.
Speaker 2 (14:06):
Allives will allignes will winning, and everything that has to
do with winning.
Speaker 3 (14:10):
That's what he's all about.
Speaker 1 (14:12):
Is he more of a big talking leader guy or
is he more of a lead by example type of guy.
Speaker 2 (14:17):
He's gonna lead by example. He's not gonna talk that much.
He only gonna talk when it's needed.
Speaker 1 (14:23):
Okay, I think that. How about in the meeting room
when he you know, is is he very vocal in
the meeting rooms with guys. Is here a lot of
conversation with him or is it more just kind of
locked and unfocused and then writing his notes and kind
of learning what he needs to learn.
Speaker 2 (14:34):
He talked again, that's the when he talk when he
is needed. As far as something that we can help
a younger guy out. But besides that, he's just trying
to take all the information. If he sees something that
he doesn't agree with, he'll say something on it. Besides that,
he's trying to figure out how he can, you know,
be the best on the field. And that's that's truly
his mindset. He wants to be the best on the field.
(14:55):
He want to leave a legacy to be the best
so and he wants to win.
Speaker 1 (14:59):
As he up your program, what were some of the
areas that you were still really locking in with him
on and fine tuning with him in terms of his game.
Speaker 2 (15:06):
I mean, I just like a thousand things that I
can go through right now as a D line coach,
you know, so I'm very you know, I'm gonna critique
every part of his game. So that's hard to say
right now because that's a lot of things. You know
what I'm saying, not that he was lacking on some things,
but I'm a perfectionist. I want to be perfect everything.
So that's kind of that's a lot of things right there.
You know, I would love him be better in the ranking.
(15:28):
I love for him be even more dominant past rush,
you know. So you're talking about small, little minute things
that I'm always critiquing and trying to coach, so it's
always gonna be something.
Speaker 1 (15:39):
No, absolutely, any any piece of advice that you gave
him specifically heading to that next level you would experience
at the next level with the with the Jets, right
and the Chiefs. Any advice that you gave him that
you said, look, this is some of the things that
you're either gonna have to improve on or change or
do differently when you get to the NFL level in
order to have the level of success that he wants
to have.
Speaker 2 (16:00):
Always craft no matter what you craft at all times,
and you know, be yourself. Don't try to do anything
else but be yourself. And then about being himself. Is
a hard working dude that loves football. So that's Rochester
small things. You know, I'm going to critique when I
got a critique, so when I go on PFF when
I watched the film, I'm going send them messages and
(16:21):
stuff like that. But besides that, just be himself and
work as hard as he possibly can. That's that's the
biggest thing I told him.
Speaker 1 (16:28):
And I imagine he seems like a guy that's a
self motivator, right that he's gonna look at the stuff
on his own, see the stuff he needs a critique,
and he's gonna take care of that even when he's
not at the facility.
Speaker 3 (16:37):
Yeah, for sure, that's definitely him.
Speaker 1 (16:40):
That's awesome. I got two more for your coach.
Speaker 3 (16:42):
One.
Speaker 1 (16:42):
Do you have any just kind of stories or anecdotes
of your experiences with with Abdul that you think kind
of gives fans a good feel for the type of
guy or a person that he is, and and just
what he's gonna bring to the giants in the locker
room and on the field.
Speaker 2 (16:57):
I'll probably go to that not your damn game when
you know Showlder really bother him, couldn't use it at all.
It was a play where you know, I'm thinking he's tired.
He waved me off, like, coach, don't take me out
this game. He's a competitor, so he again it's all
about winning for him and being the best. So in
that moment, you just see that he was on a
(17:19):
different type of mindset where he's like, I might be tired,
might be hurt, but I want to win this game,
so do not take me out in this situation.
Speaker 1 (17:26):
That's terrific. And then the final one I want to
get give me some insight into Penn State practice here
when I do a car of God here. He just
talked to the media and he says, in a very
teammate friendly way, I have some unfinished business with THEO
Johnson on the practice field. Can you give us a
window into what the battles are like between those two
guys going up against each other at Penn State practice.
Speaker 3 (17:45):
I mean it's some violence going on.
Speaker 2 (17:47):
So you know, it's a lot of practices I could
point too, but it is some violence going on and
it's gonna be violent at them practices.
Speaker 3 (17:55):
Want to pass.
Speaker 1 (17:55):
Come on, coach, that's awesome man. Anything we missed that
that that that you think and should know about Abdul,
that that we did not touch on.
Speaker 3 (18:04):
Nah, I mean that kid is about winning and he
go do everything you can do to that.
Speaker 1 (18:10):
Coach. Dion Barnes, defensive line coach for Penn State coach.
We appreciate the time, man, Thanks so much. Oh great
stuff right there. Fantastic from defensive line coach for the
Penn State Nittley Lions, Dion Barnes. Great stuff, really good
stuff on Abdul that I wasn't aware of, and we
appreciate him joining us right here in the Hackensack Marine
Healths Podcast studio. Keep getting better.
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