August 28, 2025 • 27 mins
On this episode of the Giants Huddle podcast, John Schmeelk is joined by Yahoo Sports Senior NFL Reporter, Jori Epstein. She discusses the culture building in the Giants facility, the quarterbacks and their roles on the team, and the outlook of the NFC East.
:00 - Giants quarterbacks
7:30 - Giants defense
10:04 - NFC East
18:25 - Sleepers in the NFC
21:10 - Around the NFL
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
It's time to get inside the Giants. Hulet's let's go.
Speaker 2 (00:03):
Let's go, get out the Giants bubbling, give me some job.
Speaker 1 (00:07):
Part of the Giants Podcast Network, Let's roll. Welcome to
the newest edition of The Giants Little Podcast, brought to
you by Citizens, the official bank of the Giants. I
am John Schmelk, thrilled to welcome to the program. Senior
NFL reporter at Yahoo Sports Jory Epstein, Jory, how are you.
Speaker 2 (00:21):
I'm great, town, Thanks for having me on.
Speaker 1 (00:22):
How are you doing, I'm doing great. Just to timestamp this,
it's airing on Thursday of the week before the season begins,
but we're recording this a week prior so if something
big happens, and usually that's not a good thing, so
or hoping that does not happen between now and then,
that's why we didn't talk about it. So we're gonna
try to keep things at a twenty thousand foot of
view here. This is really the Giants last like competitive
(00:45):
practice of camp, really today, Right, they play their last
preseason game in two days and then next week you're
kind of ramping up, but you're not really going at it.
Your losters limited again, what did your what were your
major takeaways just some kind of watching practice today and
being around the team.
Speaker 2 (00:59):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (00:59):
Absolutely, I mean I think I think everyone wants to
talk about Russ and talk about Jackson Darden. I think
it seems that Russ does really have a stronghold on
that first team offense and he knows where he's going.
I mean, it seems like a lot of today was Okay,
let's work with red zone, keep our legs fresh for
the upcoming game, and okay, let's see what we can
do with just handoffs and pitches and all of that.
But I was impressed with what we saw from Jackson
dart to day. I mean, I don't think it was
(01:20):
unlike what we've seen in the preseason games, which is
that when he gets in there, he's able to operate
it cleanly, and you do not always see that from Urkies.
Speaker 1 (01:27):
No. Absolutely. And I've been here since two thousand and seven,
so I was here for eighty percent of you Line
Manner's career and he was more of a lead by
example type, right. The impact Russ has had on this building,
to me, has honestly been shocking, Like I did not
think the type of impact one player could have like
(01:48):
he has had was frankly possible in my long years
covering the league, But talking to the people in charge
here the players, did you get the sense being here
the type of impact Russ has had on the organization. Yeah.
Speaker 3 (02:01):
I would say that Russ's impact is clear both to
the players and also to the coaches in the front office.
I mean, I think around the clock what we're seeing that.
And it's funny because you talk about your career the Giants.
My first seven years of my career were Dak's rookie
year until a seventh year of his career, and he
did have that leadership and he's got leadership in spades,
and I think that no one debates that, even if
they debate where he is exactly in the quarterback pecking line.
(02:22):
And so I think when I look at this, I say, well,
I know what it's like when a quarterback is talking
to the defensive players and getting these guys and inviting
them over for this and all of those different things.
And I would say that we're seeing that from Russ
on and off the field. And I also think from
a culture standpoint, we're seeing that from Jamis Winston and
that might have been the most surprising thing to me,
only coming out for one day of camp, is how
many people were talking about Jamis's impact, whether that's Jackson
(02:45):
Dart talking about the ways he's developing him, or the
team talking about the way that oh it's the yoga
that assistant general manager Brandon Brown is talking to us about.
Speaker 2 (02:52):
I mean all around the clock.
Speaker 1 (02:53):
Yeah, Brandon Brown basically saying, yeah, we are not interested
in trading Jameis Winston, like we love him here and
kind of what he brings to the team. And I
think the interesting thing with Wilson and people in the
front office has told me this the confidence that having
a guy that the players a lot of these guys
frankly when they were like in high school, correct, so
win a Super Bowl, go to a Super was potentially
be a Hall of Fame quarterback. Just the level of confidence,
(03:16):
the way like the tide has risen, which I think
was given how the last you know, ten years have
gone here. I think it's really needed and I think
it will help.
Speaker 2 (03:26):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (03:26):
Absolutely, I think that this is a team in a
quarterback that's getting married at the right time. I mean,
I think Russell Wilson and the Giants are just a
really good fit for right now. And I also think
you say, Okay, he's going to show you how to prepare.
He's going to show Jackson Dart what you want your
career to look like down the line, and how you
get to that far in your career and still have
a job in the NFL. And then oh, by the way,
he's still got that moonball and he's still got the
eighty year had pass. And I mean it's not only
(03:48):
off the field. I think rest still has something left
in the tank on the field.
Speaker 1 (03:51):
Yeah. And look, obviously, if if he comes out and
he plays poorly, none of that of the subsequiclarly get
night matter right. And I think his connection in the
League neighbors is going to be really huge if he
was back on the I to feel today, after missing
a couple of weeks, I've kind of slowly tried to
manage him this offseason, ramp him up. How big of
your do you think the League Neighbors can have?
Speaker 2 (04:07):
Yeah, I think it's huge.
Speaker 3 (04:08):
And I think the biggest thing is when I think
about what Russell Wilson will do with this offense, the
moon beell is his number one thing. I think what
you want to do if you're the Giants, has establish
a run game. Establish a run game that requires defenses
to respect their run game so that you can lighten
up a little bit of the coverage further down the field.
And if you do that well, then Russ and elite
neighbors should have a very complimentary skill set.
Speaker 1 (04:27):
Yeah, you want to make this look like what Russell
Wilson's best years look like in Seattle, right where you
know the old thing, let Russ cook. Well, that didn't
work out that well. It turns out that Pete carol
Ashian knew what he was doing. And if you use
the run game and then you have Russ compliment that,
that's how you're probably going to get the best out
of them.
Speaker 3 (04:44):
Absolutely, and I think generally you see this around the
league is that if you want those explosives, you need
the run game to complement it. And so I think
this team realizes that that is where you can most
have success.
Speaker 1 (04:54):
You mentioned Jackson Dought a couple of times. What do
you think the developmental cycle is going to look like.
The fans are probably going to see Jackson Dorp play
real football for the last time in that third preseason game,
and then who knows when any of us, including me,
are going to see him do anything, let alone in
a game, but even like in practice. Right, So, how
(05:15):
do you think they're going to go about this and
how do you say they're going to know when he's ready?
Speaker 2 (05:19):
Yeah?
Speaker 3 (05:20):
I think the Giants want to understand how many data
points can we get before week one of the regular season?
How many data points can you get where Oh, he
has no idea he's going in the game. Most of
the coaches didn't even know, but Brian Davis throwing him
in there with their ones all of a sudden just
to see what happens. And it's funny. I was talking
to Jackson about this and he said he I mean,
he said, are you serious to Daves? Because he goes
Dave's does things that are sometimes kind of joking, and
(05:41):
I don't know if this is one of the joking
ones or one of the serious ones, Like which one
is us to do? So he wasn't saying are you
serious in terms of what do you mean you want
me to come in? It was I legitimately don't know
if you're making a joke, And how'm suos to respond
to this? And I just think when you look at
what he did there, what he did in different parts
of the game. I think that they are continuing to
ramp up what's asked him. And another thing that really
interested me when I talked to Jackson was this idea
(06:03):
of He told me that he has a lot of
freedom at the line of scrimmage. And I'm not him
at the exclusion of the other quarterbacks, and I'm not
around every day, so I haven't seen that in practice.
But I was surprised at him being like, yeah, they
are giving the quarterbacks the keys to this offense that
if we see something the defense is doing, we have
the ability to change the play at the line of scrimmage.
Speaker 1 (06:20):
Yeah, And that goes to the complicated nature of Brian
Dables offense. I mean, I had players come in here
that were ten year veterans and be like, John, this
is a lot like there's a lot of verbiage, there's
a lot of things in it. Jackson does not seem
overwhelmed by it, which is I think is probably the
most encouraging thing.
Speaker 3 (06:36):
He doesn't seem overwhelmed, but he does say in his
ors that he's humbled by it, not by the offense,
but by being in a room trying to learn this
offense with Russell Wilson, who's won a Super Bowl, Jameis
Winston who's been this league as the first round pick
for a while, and Tommy Devido, who's actually got the
most experience in this offense and may know the offense
better than any of them.
Speaker 1 (06:54):
It's true what we're talking to Jackson, were you just
you feel like his personality is build from scratch just
to play quarterback in the National Football League, doesn't and
like he's just like captain charism. It's it's just fun
talking to him, you know.
Speaker 3 (07:07):
Yeah, before I was waiting or when I was waiting
to talk to him, before we started talking, someone's walking
by and they're kids with him, and he's asking the
kid about, well, what's your name? And oh, you got
that blue raspberry shaved ice here, And I mean he's
making friends with everyone in conversation. And this was not
someone he was asked to go meet. He's just kind
of doing that. It seems like that's pretty much across
the board. Oh, I'm mentioning where I'm from and he's like, oh,
(07:27):
I've got high school friends there, and I mean, all along.
Speaker 1 (07:30):
It's fun and It's funny you talked about how we
talked about Russell Wilson had his best success in Seattle,
and I think they also want to build this team
around the defense, right, That's where a lot of their
investment came in the off season, whether it was Javon
Howid and Paulson Adiebo's free agent signings, Chauncey Golston as
well j Abduquatter as a third overall pick. How do
you think this defense is being built and what do
you think it might look like when we hit the
(07:52):
field in Week one?
Speaker 3 (07:53):
Yeah, I mean what we hear from Brandon Brown and
this echoes what the Giants have been saying. Is this
Russian coverage. That's how you want to build it. I
have questions about the coverage, and I think the question
to me is also how is your run defense going
to look? Because if your run defense isn't strong, your
pass pressures usually don't have the opportunity to go make money.
Speaker 1 (08:09):
And Brian Dables talked to us about this. You can't
rush the passer. If a to your point, you're giving
up you know five six yards on first down, you
know second and four, and teams can do whatever they want,
but also if you don't have leads, like if you're
down ten thirteen points in the second quarter, well guess what,
You're never putting your opponent into a position where you
(08:32):
can get all your pass rushes on the field do
all these crazy blitzes because they're under no pressure of like,
all right, well we have to get a first down here.
If that happened to just check it. That up to
the ac dud because they're a couple of scores.
Speaker 3 (08:43):
No, absolutely, I think you see that pass pressures are
going to close out the game. They're not going to
be able to win the game from the start.
Speaker 1 (08:49):
Bingo. Absolutely. What do you think of what you saw
from Abdul Quarter and what you've heard from people about
ab du Quarter in the building?
Speaker 2 (08:54):
Yeah, I think they're excited about him.
Speaker 3 (08:56):
I think when you look at both him and the
Lake neighbors, I think that this team feels like you
don't want to be picking as highly as they are,
but if you're going to you want to get talents
like get.
Speaker 1 (09:03):
Those guys right and that that can be difference makers.
And I think when you look at this defense, if
you combine Carter, we know what Brian Burns is that
he's really accepted a leadership role this year. And then
Dexter Lawrence who really hasn't done a ton yet in
the summer, but he'll be ready for Week one. This again,
if the other parts come together, could be one of
the better defensive lines in football.
Speaker 3 (09:24):
The talents is there, and I think, as we mentioned
the questions, just what's the offense going to be doing,
what's the back end going to be doing? And is
this talent going to be able to show what they have?
Speaker 1 (09:31):
Yeah, very young secondary which always you know, does it
come together well? To see how that goes. The Giants
Foundation will host a five K racing Kids Run presented
by Quest on Sunday, October twenty sixth at nine am
in met Life Stadium. That proceeds will benefit the Giants Foundation.
All participants will receive a commemorative T shirt after the race.
Stay for a post race festival with appearances by Giants
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(09:54):
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toh one C three nonprofit corporation. Huddle up, I didn't hear.
If you're lined up here, you gotta go over the
middle with at the score.
Speaker 2 (10:04):
Great, How do we make that happen? I don't know,
Bud Citizens?
Speaker 1 (10:08):
Does it makes sense of your money with citizens Official
Bank of Eli Manning? All right, let's go wider NFL here,
you've been to eighteen cam if you told me.
Speaker 3 (10:17):
This is sixteen tomorrow by the time people are watching this, seventeen.
Speaker 1 (10:21):
Very good. So let's start with the NFC East. First,
we've given the stat of bajillion times in our programming.
You have not had consecutive since the NFC East champions
since two thousand and four, when Andy Reid with Donovan
McNab was, you know, coaching and quarterback in the Footdelphie Eagles.
Is that finally going to get broken this year?
Speaker 3 (10:39):
I'm actually glad you remind me of this because on
all accounts, on paper, the Eagles team like the best team,
and I do think they're the best team in this division.
Speaker 1 (10:47):
I have a hard time even against them.
Speaker 3 (10:48):
But I also have a hard time making an argument
that someone's going to repeat in the NFC East, because
why should we keep making this argument?
Speaker 2 (10:53):
We've been doing it every year.
Speaker 3 (10:54):
I mean again, this is nine tenth season covering the
NFC East in large part I'm covering the whole league now,
but it's starting in Dallas now, living in New York,
being with Philly a lot, and every year we think
it's going to happen.
Speaker 2 (11:04):
So why is this the year?
Speaker 1 (11:05):
I know? But what team? How about this? Which team
in the division I think has the best chance of
breaking the question?
Speaker 3 (11:11):
I mean, you want to say the Commanders when you
see what they did in the NFC title game last year.
I still think that the Eagles are more complete game,
a complete team, I should say, than the Commanders. I
think that the Commanders will be a better team than
last year, but I don't think they'll have a better
record because the NFC East schedule is a lot tougher
this year.
Speaker 1 (11:26):
Oh it's impossible. And you know, we kind of talked
about with the Giants and then we'll get back to
the rest of the division. The Giants could be a
significantly better team this year. And I was joking with
fans like two months ago, I'm like, can I get
you excited about a better point differential and better DVOA? Like,
does that get you excited? Because that might be what
we're looking at where you see the progress in those areas,
even if you know the record, maybe you know two
(11:47):
or three more wins. It's just so difficult it might
not show up in the one lost column. No.
Speaker 2 (11:51):
Absolutely.
Speaker 3 (11:51):
I visited all four NFC North teams, and I think
they all kind of realized, like, hey, when you look
at their opponents last year and you look got something
that's going on, you're probably not all going to win
fifteen games this year.
Speaker 1 (12:00):
You get the Giants and everybody in the NFC East
gets the NFC North in the NFCUS, Yeah, I mean
that's it. You don't have one easy game in the
eight against those too. Not to mention the teams in
the NFC East, what are your concern levels about the
Commander's defense, because I feel like they're secondary, right, you know,
they's some older guys, whether there's Bobby Wagon and Marshaun Lattimore.
(12:21):
I don't know what's going on. It's safety there. Necessarily,
they don't have that eight plus pass rusher up front.
How do you think dan Quinn's going to try to
put that unit together, which really, in the end is
the reason they did not beat the Philadelphia Eagles, Right,
They just couldn't get a stop in that game.
Speaker 3 (12:34):
Right, I think the question for them on defense is
I don't think they believe that in their first year
they had the talent fits to run the scheme they wanted.
I think that they wanted corners that were a little
bit longer. I think there were some personnel elements that's like, hey,
you can't completely turn over the cupboard in one year. Sure,
I think they believe they have personnel that better fits
the type of defense they want to play. With Joe
a junior calling the defense as the coordinator, now the
(12:55):
questions can you do it? They do have some guys
like a Frankie Luviu, like a Miikey Stander, So like
they had some bright they got von Miller in house,
It'll be interesting to see how much he has left.
Speaker 2 (13:03):
In the tank.
Speaker 3 (13:03):
And also, quite frankly, what do they ask him to do?
Or they ask him to play on first and second downs?
All of that, and so I think that I think
they have the pieces to be better, but we need
to see it before we.
Speaker 2 (13:13):
Can believe it.
Speaker 1 (13:13):
We're here in the Hackensack Marita Hill podcast Vidio Keep
getting Better with Jory Epstein, senior NFL reporter for Yahoo Sports.
That's Cowboys. I'm sure you still have ties with them,
and you pay attention to them as when you ever
recover a team that long, you can't really pull yourself
away from there. I'll start. The big story with them
is Michael Parsons on the field week one.
Speaker 2 (13:32):
I think he is on the field week one.
Speaker 3 (13:33):
I would say there's like a seventy percent chance that
he is on the field week one with a new contract, and.
Speaker 1 (13:39):
I think with a new contract.
Speaker 3 (13:41):
I think seventy percent with a new contract. I think
I was about to go twenty five. You get twenty
five percent that they play this out, tag him and
then figured it out in five percent chance of trade.
I don't think it's out of the question that they
plays out. And I will say the more that each
side digs in, the more you say, well, the Cowboys
are like, we're under contract, and Mike's party can be like,
we're just going to keep making more money. But I
don't really think that's actually in either side's best interest.
(14:04):
The way that Dak, for example, when he was going
through this and he did play out a franchise tag year,
believed that it was in his best interest.
Speaker 1 (14:10):
Easier for a quarterback to do that than the defensive end, right.
Speaker 3 (14:13):
Yeah, And I mean it's interesting going back to that distinction.
When I talked to Dak at Cowboys training camp this
year and I was like, Dak, why are you supporting
Mike and not practicing when you practice through this? And
He's like, yes, but I'm a quarterback. I wear red jersey.
I'm not getting hit business. You can't go out there
and do that. And Dak has been very open about
supporting what Micah does. So I think that when it
comes down to it, currently, to me, the number one
(14:34):
reason Mike doesn't have a contract is because Jerry Jones
is not happy with the fact that they had a
handshake agreement that Mike is not keeping, which, oh, by
the way, in case everyone hasn't been watching, the agent
was not involved with his handshake agreement, nor did they
have anything in writing. And I loved Herry. He's fantastic
for our jobs and he's so helpful for all of
my interviews. So I say that, but I think when
you look at it, at some point, I think Jerry's
going to be like Jerry always has enough time to
(14:55):
have a bad time. He's getting up there in ages
in his eighties. I don't think he's really going to
want to risk that with Micah for the sake of
being stubborn.
Speaker 1 (15:01):
I mean, and I don't want to spend a ton
of time on this, but the way I look at it,
if Jerry Jones is willing to just pick up the
phone and call the agent, I feel like they'll get
the deal done. But if he's just gonna be stubborn
about it, that's how you get to the whole franchise
tat thing, which again the Cowboys have gone down that
road before.
Speaker 3 (15:19):
Yeah, I think to me, the most jarring moment of
this whole conversation was I was at Denver Broncos practice
and all of a sudden, Micah Parsons put out a
three page statement saying he wants to be traded for
the Cowboys. And I know that people say they want
to be traded. I know that Miles Garrett said that.
I know that Terry McLaurin and the Commanders had said
that they don't have a deal. As at the time
we're recording this podcast. No one does this in Dallas. Again,
(15:40):
I've been in this covering this league for ten years.
Not one person has asked for the Cowboys to trade
them away.
Speaker 1 (15:44):
I didn't do a dack didn't do it right.
Speaker 3 (15:46):
So that's just not what they had other I mean again,
I was there when Zeke was holding out forty days
in Cabos San Lucas. There have been a DeMarcus Lawrence.
I was there when he would not get his shoulder
surgery until they give him a contract. So I'm not
saying no one had tactics, but no one's you use
this one to. When I say that, I was like, oh,
is Jerry gonna just draw a hard line of if
you don't want to play here, I don't want you
here because if that's how he believes in the brand.
And then I'm there a few days later and Mike
(16:08):
is on the sideline and he's talking to this player here,
and okay, maybe he's not talking to Jerry, but he's
talking to Will McLay, their VP of player personnel, And
during the individual drills he's talking to defensive coordinator Matt Eberflus.
So I don't think this is quite as broken as
we're making it out.
Speaker 1 (16:22):
Yeah, when he showed up to practice the day after
you put the statement on, I'm like, all right, maybe
he really doesn't want to get traded. That badly. It's
just kind of a negotiation thing. What do the Cowboys
have to do to challenge the Eagles? They've been kind
of the two teams that have gone back and forth
right over the past five six years. Do you think
they have the ability to make a run and get
back closer to that kind of eleven twelve when Mike
McCarthy era type of team.
Speaker 3 (16:42):
Yeah, I would say the two biggest question marks for
me are your defense if you don't have Micah Parsons.
The defense is significantly worse without Micah Parsons. And is
your run game at least average. I don't think you
need a great run game. You have Ceede Lamb and
George Pickens catching the ball from Dak Prescott, especially if
the offensive line is fine, they should be okay. But
you need something of run game for guys to respect, again,
as we were talking about with rust and the moonball,
(17:04):
so that you can get those guys open. Now, I
do think that if I'm playing fantasy, which I'm not,
you want that third receiver on your team. Because George
Pickens and Ceedee Lambs are covered well, Jalen Tolbert should
begin a lot of targets, so I think that there
are going to be some surprise players because of the
attention that those two receivers will be commanding.
Speaker 1 (17:21):
Nah Camonte Turprink with the other guys, there's lot of
damage this line. I think a lot of has have
to do with the young offensive line right right. They've
you know, they've turned that cool group over. No more
Zach Moore, no more Tyron Smith, Travis Frederick ORed a
while ago. It's all new guys and a lot of
first round, second round picks and still on their rookie contracts.
Do you think that line as the potential to come
together and kind of become the core of this group
(17:42):
like we've seen Cowboy offensive lines do so in the past.
Speaker 3 (17:45):
Yeah, I think you've have been it on the head,
which is that when the Cowboys offensive line has been
good the last decade decad and a half, the team
has been really good and made it to the playoffs.
When they've struggled on the offensive line, that's pretty much
been like complete correlation with how they've done in the
regular season and ultimately making it to the post season,
if not advancing super far into the postseason. So I
would say, I think we have to give the Cowboys
some credit for being able to draft offensive linemen, because
(18:08):
these guys were talking about are all homegrown, and they've
continued to take first round offensive lineman again recently, which
I think is a good investment. So I think they
can do it, but it might take a little while.
At the beginning of the season is usually pretty rough
for offensive linemen.
Speaker 1 (18:20):
If you want to know how to manage two minutes
of crunch time football, I'm your matt But if you're
wondering about a long term financial plan, you should talk
to citizens.
Speaker 2 (18:27):
Hey, I can also talk long care.
Speaker 3 (18:29):
I'd like to learn about amliarutine.
Speaker 1 (18:30):
Yes, I knew I could help make sense of your
money with citizens. All right, let's stick in the NFC.
Any teams that you think people in the general public
might be sleeping on, that you think might be better
than their being given credit for.
Speaker 3 (18:45):
I don't think we're sleeping on the rams, but if
we think the rooms are good, like they could be
great again. I think would be the last year exactly.
I think that this is a team that I do
think Matthew Stafford will be out their week one, perhaps
limited in terms of how comfortable he is. I don't
think he's going to be limited in terms of his game,
But I do think that, like I talked to their
general manager Lessening about having DeVante Adams in the building,
and I talked to Puka Nicoo about learning from Devonte.
(19:06):
And no one's doubting what Cooper Cup did. He was
obviously incredible for that team and a big reason they
want a Super Bowl. But I think that when you
look at what Davante's doing, it's kind of like a
new perspective when so many other guys had been Here's
what Sean McVay taught me, and here's what I've been
doing my entire career. And so I think having DeVante
and Puka and oh, by the way, you still have
Kien Williams. And when I was at the Cowboys Rams
joint practice, the Cowboys are sorry. The Rams were significantly
(19:28):
stronger on both sides of the line of scrimmage and
the Cowboys, and I think that that is in large
part because of how well they've drafted lately.
Speaker 1 (19:35):
The Rams have a very good young defensive line that
a lot of those guys could end up breaking out
this year for sure. How about the forty nine ers,
do you think they might have a big resurgent year.
It's funny. They have these years every now and then
they just get a lot of injuries in their bad
of course, then they get to like draft Nick Bosa,
it turns out the end of being really good again.
Do you think this could be a big bounce back
year for for San Francisco?
Speaker 2 (19:53):
I think it could.
Speaker 3 (19:54):
I think they still have the talent, but as you mentioned,
I think that it's fair to question their health. And Okay,
they don't have Deba Sam anymore. Okay, you've got guys
who have been having some lingering injuries, is old, right, Yeah,
they've lost some guys tar various awards and there are
so I think that there are a lot of question
marks there. I think that their floor should always be
pretty high in terms of what Kyle Shanahan can do,
Rock Purty, et cetera.
Speaker 2 (20:15):
But I do think that they have some question marks.
Speaker 1 (20:17):
Yeah. And look, and they never bet against Kyle Shannon.
Another team, by the way, on the Giants schedule of
this year, because somehow they finished in last place like
the Giants, so they have to face each other. Is
there a team in the AFC that does not have
one of the big four quarterbacks and that's obviously Lamar Jackson,
Josh Allen, Patrick Mahomes, Joel Burrow that you think can
challenge one of those teams to get to the Super Bowl.
Speaker 3 (20:38):
Champayne is very high on his Broncos team. I think
when you see what he did with bon Knicks last year,
he believes he's got that guy. They might be the
best defense in the year in the league this year.
I mean, I think that they have that talent and
that got the defensive Player of the Year, and so
I think when you see what bon Nicks as year two,
if he builds on it, I do think that the Broncos,
despite coming from a really tough division. I think the
(20:59):
Chiefs will in the division, but I'm not sure. I
think the Broncos could challenge them for the division. And
if you got home field advantage in Denver, I mean,
I don't think.
Speaker 2 (21:05):
That's out of the question.
Speaker 1 (21:07):
No, I don't think it is either. And the Broncos
also maybe have the best offensive line in the league too.
So if you can combine those two things, a great
offensive line, a really good defense, play caller at a
great break caller, that that is not a bad formula.
Here's an interesting one. I'm throwing this on you, so
feel free to think about it for a few seconds.
What division do you think is most likely in the
NFL to have three playoff teams come out of that division?
(21:27):
Team last year was I believe the AFC North. I
think did it too right? Didn't they? Then the Steelers
make it with the Ravens, though the Beans did not.
They were it was the NFC North last year, and I'm.
Speaker 3 (21:39):
Sorry, I mean I could see that af I think
the AFC North. Yeah, I think the AFC North is
it this year because I mean, you'd have the Ravens,
you'd have the Bengals and the Steelers. I don't know
that the Steelers will go all the way, but I
do think with Aaron Rodgers, they should be a better team.
League wis some suggests that usually about eighteen months after
you have that tier, you're a little bit better. So
I think the beginning of last year he was kind
of dealing with, like, oh, the calf is a little
(22:00):
bit hurt because of the achilles from beforehand. I think
he should be better. He's got DK Metcalfe in house,
and I think that defense is good. I also will
say that just the vibe around Aaron Rodgers and the
Steelers felt very different to me than Aaron Rodgers and
the Jets.
Speaker 1 (22:13):
I'm curious.
Speaker 3 (22:13):
I think that with the Jets, and obvious it's not,
but it's been a long time since they've had success,
and I think they were really like, Aaron Rodgers is
our savior and we're going to have success. Not to
mention the injury that happened, and obviously, who knows what
would be different if he didn't get that injury season
ending four snaps into his Jets career. But on the
Steelers end, I feel like the Steelers are like, you've
been here before, but so have we as a franchise
and maybe not the last few years, maybe, but we're
(22:35):
not losing. We don't have losing seasons. Mike Tomlins famously,
what is that eighteen years no losing sight.
Speaker 1 (22:40):
This is Mike Tomlin's team and you're coming into it.
It's not Aaron.
Speaker 3 (22:43):
Rodgers say yeah, right, And I think that they that
Aaron respects Mike in a way that maybe hasn't respected
some of his coaches recently. I'm not saying that in
terms of necessarily how he directly handled it, but I
think in terms of the approach, so I do think
that they have a lot of potential even in a
difficulty And I just think, to me, the biggest question
with Aaron Rodgers is his mind is still one of
(23:04):
the best, if not the best at the position in
the game, and his arm is still great. So just
to me take out a little bit of the mobility,
be a little more realistic about how much you can
move around. And maybe I'm wrong on that. Maybe he
does have it back after that extra time from the injury,
and then you should be able to do it.
Speaker 1 (23:18):
And I'm curious, and I'll do my final question as
you look, and I think by the way, they'll run
the ball a lot more in Pittsburgh. Yeah, No, won't
put as much on his shoulders, because that's what the
Steelers do. As you win around the league, What are
maybe one trend on offense and one trend on defense
that you think might be coming down the pike in
the NFL from talking to some of these coordinators that
you think teams might be leaning into on both sides
(23:38):
of the ball a little bit.
Speaker 2 (23:39):
Yeah, I would say one thing on offense.
Speaker 3 (23:41):
Does the Commanders did a whole lot of things that
interest me, but I would say that what interests me
most is I didn't realize how much they went no
huddle last year. I mean, I believe it was sixty
one point four percent of time last year the Commanders
went no huddle. That's more than double the next high number.
I think it was like twenty five percent and more
than five times the average. And look what it did
for Jayden Daniels. And I think that's relevant for you
guys here at the Giants because when, yeah, when you
(24:02):
see what Jackson darkin do I think that the Cincinnati
Bengals defender Cam Taylor Britt famously was like, oh, Jade Daniels,
He's just running a college offense.
Speaker 2 (24:09):
It's simple.
Speaker 3 (24:10):
And I don't even think that he actually meant it
as an insul as much as it was taken it
that way. But I do think people kind of viewed
it as a mockery, and it turned out that Clik
Kingsbury was actually just like, why don't I play to
Jaden's strengths instead of just doing something the way the
NFL has done. And I think that a lot of
teams around the league are watching the Commander's blueprint for
developing Jayden and saying, hey, we should probably do something
like this. So whether that's no huddle or whether that's
(24:32):
some of these more college principles, I do think we'll
see that. Defensively, that's a good question. But I have
been just very intrigued by the way that Brian Flores
has revolutionized what Minnesota has done. I think when you
look at it, I mean they were basically a bottom
five offense in a lot of categories before he got there.
In two years in their top five, and I would
say we're already seeing some of the trends in terms
of like the versatility of his players, like what he
(24:53):
did in Minnesota with certain guys like Andrew Vankinkle, and
technically Fangio had done that with Andrew vankin gold Well.
Now the Eagle are like, well, why don't we take
a chance on Zach Bond and see if we can
have our guy? And essentially this idea of being able
to change the coverage without changing the personnel, and I
think that defenses that can do that feel really really
strongly about how they're able.
Speaker 2 (25:12):
To confuse offenses.
Speaker 3 (25:13):
Because I had an offensive coordinator tell me about Brian
Flores like, I'm just guessing against him because what they're
showing me pre snap it could be true, it could
be not, it could be what I saw on film
from last week.
Speaker 2 (25:22):
It could have nothing to do with that.
Speaker 1 (25:23):
Now the schemes are different, but it reminds me a
lot of when we had Wink Morton Dale here, and
what he always said to us is that, look, generally speaking,
in the NFL, the offense will dictate what the defense
ends up doing. Right, Wink was always like, that's not
how I'm gonna play. I'm going to set my personnel
and my formation on defense. Well, I'm gonna tell the offense, well,
I'm not gonna let you do these things because if
(25:45):
you do, it's not going to work against what I'm
putting out there. And I feel like that's what Flores does,
except he's even less predictable. Right, he uses three safeties.
He's going, you know, drop an eight and coverage. Sometimes
he's splits an eight. He's all over the place. And
I do wonder how person and now base that is,
if that will work for all these different teams, and
how that can filter out, because I do think that
(26:07):
is kind of the next duration, Right, How can defenses
confuse and dictate offenses who've been trying to do that
to defenses with motion. This is kind of like the
other side of that, right right.
Speaker 3 (26:15):
I think it's a great point because to me, like
what Brian Floreses is doing is threefold. Part of it
is the aggressive play calling and scheming. Part of it
is we have to execute that. And the way that
people are on lead telling me is like they kind
of feel like that defense has taken on Brian Flores's fiery,
tough personality and there's a sense of swagger that he's basically.
Speaker 2 (26:31):
Infusing in them.
Speaker 3 (26:31):
And then also the personnel and Brian Flores, I do
think it's been intentional about who they've gotten on that
defense to fit that. So if you don't have the
personnel and the scheme and just the general like demeanor
to do it, it really probably doesn't work.
Speaker 1 (26:43):
And you mentioned Van Ginkel, Harrison Smith being of safety
that's seen everything buying them right, another man that's super.
Josha Mattellus was there right, another super. So I think
you're right. I think it'll be really really interesting. All right,
tell the folks everything that you have gone on where
they should go find your work, social media, whatever you
want to promote the floors awesome.
Speaker 3 (27:00):
Thanks so much done. Yeah, Jewelry Epstein. So I'm at
Jewelry Epstein on Twitter and my work is largely found
on Yahoo Sports. Co host Inside Coverage the podcast there,
and I'm writing often on Yahoo Sports. So that's my
account on Twitter, on Instagram, all the things. And it's
great to be honest you No, this was so much fun.
Speaker 1 (27:15):
Thank you so much for doing it.
Speaker 2 (27:16):
Happy to be here.
Speaker 1 (27:17):
Jory Epstein on The Giants Total Podcast presented by Citizens
Official Bank of the Giants from the Hackensackmriny Hell Podcast,
who will keep getting better? Enjoyed everybody, We'll see you
next time.
It's time to get inside the Giants. Hulet's let's go.
Speaker 2 (00:03):
Let's go, get out the Giants bubbling, give me some job.
Speaker 1 (00:07):
Part of the Giants Podcast Network, Let's roll. Welcome to
the newest edition of The Giants Little Podcast, brought to
you by Citizens, the official bank of the Giants. I
am John Schmelk, thrilled to welcome to the program. Senior
NFL reporter at Yahoo Sports Jory Epstein, Jory, how are you.
Speaker 2 (00:21):
I'm great, town, Thanks for having me on.
Speaker 1 (00:22):
How are you doing, I'm doing great. Just to timestamp this,
it's airing on Thursday of the week before the season begins,
but we're recording this a week prior so if something
big happens, and usually that's not a good thing, so
or hoping that does not happen between now and then,
that's why we didn't talk about it. So we're gonna
try to keep things at a twenty thousand foot of
view here. This is really the Giants last like competitive
(00:45):
practice of camp, really today, Right, they play their last
preseason game in two days and then next week you're
kind of ramping up, but you're not really going at it.
Your losters limited again, what did your what were your
major takeaways just some kind of watching practice today and
being around the team.
Speaker 2 (00:59):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (00:59):
Absolutely, I mean I think I think everyone wants to
talk about Russ and talk about Jackson Darden. I think
it seems that Russ does really have a stronghold on
that first team offense and he knows where he's going.
I mean, it seems like a lot of today was Okay,
let's work with red zone, keep our legs fresh for
the upcoming game, and okay, let's see what we can
do with just handoffs and pitches and all of that.
But I was impressed with what we saw from Jackson
dart to day. I mean, I don't think it was
(01:20):
unlike what we've seen in the preseason games, which is
that when he gets in there, he's able to operate
it cleanly, and you do not always see that from Urkies.
Speaker 1 (01:27):
No. Absolutely. And I've been here since two thousand and seven,
so I was here for eighty percent of you Line
Manner's career and he was more of a lead by
example type, right. The impact Russ has had on this building,
to me, has honestly been shocking, Like I did not
think the type of impact one player could have like
(01:48):
he has had was frankly possible in my long years
covering the league, But talking to the people in charge
here the players, did you get the sense being here
the type of impact Russ has had on the organization. Yeah.
Speaker 3 (02:01):
I would say that Russ's impact is clear both to
the players and also to the coaches in the front office.
I mean, I think around the clock what we're seeing that.
And it's funny because you talk about your career the Giants.
My first seven years of my career were Dak's rookie
year until a seventh year of his career, and he
did have that leadership and he's got leadership in spades,
and I think that no one debates that, even if
they debate where he is exactly in the quarterback pecking line.
(02:22):
And so I think when I look at this, I say, well,
I know what it's like when a quarterback is talking
to the defensive players and getting these guys and inviting
them over for this and all of those different things.
And I would say that we're seeing that from Russ
on and off the field. And I also think from
a culture standpoint, we're seeing that from Jamis Winston and
that might have been the most surprising thing to me,
only coming out for one day of camp, is how
many people were talking about Jamis's impact, whether that's Jackson
(02:45):
Dart talking about the ways he's developing him, or the
team talking about the way that oh it's the yoga
that assistant general manager Brandon Brown is talking to us about.
Speaker 2 (02:52):
I mean all around the clock.
Speaker 1 (02:53):
Yeah, Brandon Brown basically saying, yeah, we are not interested
in trading Jameis Winston, like we love him here and
kind of what he brings to the team. And I
think the interesting thing with Wilson and people in the
front office has told me this the confidence that having
a guy that the players a lot of these guys
frankly when they were like in high school, correct, so
win a Super Bowl, go to a Super was potentially
be a Hall of Fame quarterback. Just the level of confidence,
(03:16):
the way like the tide has risen, which I think
was given how the last you know, ten years have
gone here. I think it's really needed and I think
it will help.
Speaker 2 (03:26):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (03:26):
Absolutely, I think that this is a team in a
quarterback that's getting married at the right time. I mean,
I think Russell Wilson and the Giants are just a
really good fit for right now. And I also think
you say, Okay, he's going to show you how to prepare.
He's going to show Jackson Dart what you want your
career to look like down the line, and how you
get to that far in your career and still have
a job in the NFL. And then oh, by the way,
he's still got that moonball and he's still got the
eighty year had pass. And I mean it's not only
(03:48):
off the field. I think rest still has something left
in the tank on the field.
Speaker 1 (03:51):
Yeah. And look, obviously, if if he comes out and
he plays poorly, none of that of the subsequiclarly get
night matter right. And I think his connection in the
League neighbors is going to be really huge if he
was back on the I to feel today, after missing
a couple of weeks, I've kind of slowly tried to
manage him this offseason, ramp him up. How big of
your do you think the League Neighbors can have?
Speaker 2 (04:07):
Yeah, I think it's huge.
Speaker 3 (04:08):
And I think the biggest thing is when I think
about what Russell Wilson will do with this offense, the
moon beell is his number one thing. I think what
you want to do if you're the Giants, has establish
a run game. Establish a run game that requires defenses
to respect their run game so that you can lighten
up a little bit of the coverage further down the field.
And if you do that well, then Russ and elite
neighbors should have a very complimentary skill set.
Speaker 1 (04:27):
Yeah, you want to make this look like what Russell
Wilson's best years look like in Seattle, right where you
know the old thing, let Russ cook. Well, that didn't
work out that well. It turns out that Pete carol
Ashian knew what he was doing. And if you use
the run game and then you have Russ compliment that,
that's how you're probably going to get the best out
of them.
Speaker 3 (04:44):
Absolutely, and I think generally you see this around the
league is that if you want those explosives, you need
the run game to complement it. And so I think
this team realizes that that is where you can most
have success.
Speaker 1 (04:54):
You mentioned Jackson Dought a couple of times. What do
you think the developmental cycle is going to look like.
The fans are probably going to see Jackson Dorp play
real football for the last time in that third preseason game,
and then who knows when any of us, including me,
are going to see him do anything, let alone in
a game, but even like in practice. Right, So, how
(05:15):
do you think they're going to go about this and
how do you say they're going to know when he's ready?
Speaker 2 (05:19):
Yeah?
Speaker 3 (05:20):
I think the Giants want to understand how many data
points can we get before week one of the regular season?
How many data points can you get where Oh, he
has no idea he's going in the game. Most of
the coaches didn't even know, but Brian Davis throwing him
in there with their ones all of a sudden just
to see what happens. And it's funny. I was talking
to Jackson about this and he said he I mean,
he said, are you serious to Daves? Because he goes
Dave's does things that are sometimes kind of joking, and
(05:41):
I don't know if this is one of the joking
ones or one of the serious ones, Like which one
is us to do? So he wasn't saying are you
serious in terms of what do you mean you want
me to come in? It was I legitimately don't know
if you're making a joke, And how'm suos to respond
to this? And I just think when you look at
what he did there, what he did in different parts
of the game. I think that they are continuing to
ramp up what's asked him. And another thing that really
interested me when I talked to Jackson was this idea
(06:03):
of He told me that he has a lot of
freedom at the line of scrimmage. And I'm not him
at the exclusion of the other quarterbacks, and I'm not
around every day, so I haven't seen that in practice.
But I was surprised at him being like, yeah, they
are giving the quarterbacks the keys to this offense that
if we see something the defense is doing, we have
the ability to change the play at the line of scrimmage.
Speaker 1 (06:20):
Yeah, And that goes to the complicated nature of Brian
Dables offense. I mean, I had players come in here
that were ten year veterans and be like, John, this
is a lot like there's a lot of verbiage, there's
a lot of things in it. Jackson does not seem
overwhelmed by it, which is I think is probably the
most encouraging thing.
Speaker 3 (06:36):
He doesn't seem overwhelmed, but he does say in his
ors that he's humbled by it, not by the offense,
but by being in a room trying to learn this
offense with Russell Wilson, who's won a Super Bowl, Jameis
Winston who's been this league as the first round pick
for a while, and Tommy Devido, who's actually got the
most experience in this offense and may know the offense
better than any of them.
Speaker 1 (06:54):
It's true what we're talking to Jackson, were you just
you feel like his personality is build from scratch just
to play quarterback in the National Football League, doesn't and
like he's just like captain charism. It's it's just fun
talking to him, you know.
Speaker 3 (07:07):
Yeah, before I was waiting or when I was waiting
to talk to him, before we started talking, someone's walking
by and they're kids with him, and he's asking the
kid about, well, what's your name? And oh, you got
that blue raspberry shaved ice here, And I mean he's
making friends with everyone in conversation. And this was not
someone he was asked to go meet. He's just kind
of doing that. It seems like that's pretty much across
the board. Oh, I'm mentioning where I'm from and he's like, oh,
(07:27):
I've got high school friends there, and I mean, all along.
Speaker 1 (07:30):
It's fun and It's funny you talked about how we
talked about Russell Wilson had his best success in Seattle,
and I think they also want to build this team
around the defense, right, That's where a lot of their
investment came in the off season, whether it was Javon
Howid and Paulson Adiebo's free agent signings, Chauncey Golston as
well j Abduquatter as a third overall pick. How do
you think this defense is being built and what do
you think it might look like when we hit the
(07:52):
field in Week one?
Speaker 3 (07:53):
Yeah, I mean what we hear from Brandon Brown and
this echoes what the Giants have been saying. Is this
Russian coverage. That's how you want to build it. I
have questions about the coverage, and I think the question
to me is also how is your run defense going
to look? Because if your run defense isn't strong, your
pass pressures usually don't have the opportunity to go make money.
Speaker 1 (08:09):
And Brian Dables talked to us about this. You can't
rush the passer. If a to your point, you're giving
up you know five six yards on first down, you
know second and four, and teams can do whatever they want,
but also if you don't have leads, like if you're
down ten thirteen points in the second quarter, well guess what,
You're never putting your opponent into a position where you
(08:32):
can get all your pass rushes on the field do
all these crazy blitzes because they're under no pressure of like,
all right, well we have to get a first down here.
If that happened to just check it. That up to
the ac dud because they're a couple of scores.
Speaker 3 (08:43):
No, absolutely, I think you see that pass pressures are
going to close out the game. They're not going to
be able to win the game from the start.
Speaker 1 (08:49):
Bingo. Absolutely. What do you think of what you saw
from Abdul Quarter and what you've heard from people about
ab du Quarter in the building?
Speaker 2 (08:54):
Yeah, I think they're excited about him.
Speaker 3 (08:56):
I think when you look at both him and the
Lake neighbors, I think that this team feels like you
don't want to be picking as highly as they are,
but if you're going to you want to get talents
like get.
Speaker 1 (09:03):
Those guys right and that that can be difference makers.
And I think when you look at this defense, if
you combine Carter, we know what Brian Burns is that
he's really accepted a leadership role this year. And then
Dexter Lawrence who really hasn't done a ton yet in
the summer, but he'll be ready for Week one. This again,
if the other parts come together, could be one of
the better defensive lines in football.
Speaker 3 (09:24):
The talents is there, and I think, as we mentioned
the questions, just what's the offense going to be doing,
what's the back end going to be doing? And is
this talent going to be able to show what they have?
Speaker 1 (09:31):
Yeah, very young secondary which always you know, does it
come together well? To see how that goes. The Giants
Foundation will host a five K racing Kids Run presented
by Quest on Sunday, October twenty sixth at nine am
in met Life Stadium. That proceeds will benefit the Giants Foundation.
All participants will receive a commemorative T shirt after the race.
Stay for a post race festival with appearances by Giants
Legends and the live DJ. Register now at giants dot
(09:54):
com slash five k. The Giants Foundation is a five
toh one C three nonprofit corporation. Huddle up, I didn't hear.
If you're lined up here, you gotta go over the
middle with at the score.
Speaker 2 (10:04):
Great, How do we make that happen? I don't know,
Bud Citizens?
Speaker 1 (10:08):
Does it makes sense of your money with citizens Official
Bank of Eli Manning? All right, let's go wider NFL here,
you've been to eighteen cam if you told me.
Speaker 3 (10:17):
This is sixteen tomorrow by the time people are watching this, seventeen.
Speaker 1 (10:21):
Very good. So let's start with the NFC East. First,
we've given the stat of bajillion times in our programming.
You have not had consecutive since the NFC East champions
since two thousand and four, when Andy Reid with Donovan
McNab was, you know, coaching and quarterback in the Footdelphie Eagles.
Is that finally going to get broken this year?
Speaker 3 (10:39):
I'm actually glad you remind me of this because on
all accounts, on paper, the Eagles team like the best team,
and I do think they're the best team in this division.
Speaker 1 (10:47):
I have a hard time even against them.
Speaker 3 (10:48):
But I also have a hard time making an argument
that someone's going to repeat in the NFC East, because
why should we keep making this argument?
Speaker 2 (10:53):
We've been doing it every year.
Speaker 3 (10:54):
I mean again, this is nine tenth season covering the
NFC East in large part I'm covering the whole league now,
but it's starting in Dallas now, living in New York,
being with Philly a lot, and every year we think
it's going to happen.
Speaker 2 (11:04):
So why is this the year?
Speaker 1 (11:05):
I know? But what team? How about this? Which team
in the division I think has the best chance of
breaking the question?
Speaker 3 (11:11):
I mean, you want to say the Commanders when you
see what they did in the NFC title game last year.
I still think that the Eagles are more complete game,
a complete team, I should say, than the Commanders. I
think that the Commanders will be a better team than
last year, but I don't think they'll have a better
record because the NFC East schedule is a lot tougher
this year.
Speaker 1 (11:26):
Oh it's impossible. And you know, we kind of talked
about with the Giants and then we'll get back to
the rest of the division. The Giants could be a
significantly better team this year. And I was joking with
fans like two months ago, I'm like, can I get
you excited about a better point differential and better DVOA? Like,
does that get you excited? Because that might be what
we're looking at where you see the progress in those areas,
even if you know the record, maybe you know two
(11:47):
or three more wins. It's just so difficult it might
not show up in the one lost column. No.
Speaker 2 (11:51):
Absolutely.
Speaker 3 (11:51):
I visited all four NFC North teams, and I think
they all kind of realized, like, hey, when you look
at their opponents last year and you look got something
that's going on, you're probably not all going to win
fifteen games this year.
Speaker 1 (12:00):
You get the Giants and everybody in the NFC East
gets the NFC North in the NFCUS, Yeah, I mean
that's it. You don't have one easy game in the
eight against those too. Not to mention the teams in
the NFC East, what are your concern levels about the
Commander's defense, because I feel like they're secondary, right, you know,
they's some older guys, whether there's Bobby Wagon and Marshaun Lattimore.
(12:21):
I don't know what's going on. It's safety there. Necessarily,
they don't have that eight plus pass rusher up front.
How do you think dan Quinn's going to try to
put that unit together, which really, in the end is
the reason they did not beat the Philadelphia Eagles, Right,
They just couldn't get a stop in that game.
Speaker 3 (12:34):
Right, I think the question for them on defense is
I don't think they believe that in their first year
they had the talent fits to run the scheme they wanted.
I think that they wanted corners that were a little
bit longer. I think there were some personnel elements that's like, hey,
you can't completely turn over the cupboard in one year. Sure,
I think they believe they have personnel that better fits
the type of defense they want to play. With Joe
a junior calling the defense as the coordinator, now the
(12:55):
questions can you do it? They do have some guys
like a Frankie Luviu, like a Miikey Stander, So like
they had some bright they got von Miller in house,
It'll be interesting to see how much he has left.
Speaker 2 (13:03):
In the tank.
Speaker 3 (13:03):
And also, quite frankly, what do they ask him to do?
Or they ask him to play on first and second downs?
All of that, and so I think that I think
they have the pieces to be better, but we need
to see it before we.
Speaker 2 (13:13):
Can believe it.
Speaker 1 (13:13):
We're here in the Hackensack Marita Hill podcast Vidio Keep
getting Better with Jory Epstein, senior NFL reporter for Yahoo Sports.
That's Cowboys. I'm sure you still have ties with them,
and you pay attention to them as when you ever
recover a team that long, you can't really pull yourself
away from there. I'll start. The big story with them
is Michael Parsons on the field week one.
Speaker 2 (13:32):
I think he is on the field week one.
Speaker 3 (13:33):
I would say there's like a seventy percent chance that
he is on the field week one with a new contract, and.
Speaker 1 (13:39):
I think with a new contract.
Speaker 3 (13:41):
I think seventy percent with a new contract. I think
I was about to go twenty five. You get twenty
five percent that they play this out, tag him and
then figured it out in five percent chance of trade.
I don't think it's out of the question that they
plays out. And I will say the more that each
side digs in, the more you say, well, the Cowboys
are like, we're under contract, and Mike's party can be like,
we're just going to keep making more money. But I
don't really think that's actually in either side's best interest.
(14:04):
The way that Dak, for example, when he was going
through this and he did play out a franchise tag year,
believed that it was in his best interest.
Speaker 1 (14:10):
Easier for a quarterback to do that than the defensive end, right.
Speaker 3 (14:13):
Yeah, And I mean it's interesting going back to that distinction.
When I talked to Dak at Cowboys training camp this
year and I was like, Dak, why are you supporting
Mike and not practicing when you practice through this? And
He's like, yes, but I'm a quarterback. I wear red jersey.
I'm not getting hit business. You can't go out there
and do that. And Dak has been very open about
supporting what Micah does. So I think that when it
comes down to it, currently, to me, the number one
(14:34):
reason Mike doesn't have a contract is because Jerry Jones
is not happy with the fact that they had a
handshake agreement that Mike is not keeping, which, oh, by
the way, in case everyone hasn't been watching, the agent
was not involved with his handshake agreement, nor did they
have anything in writing. And I loved Herry. He's fantastic
for our jobs and he's so helpful for all of
my interviews. So I say that, but I think when
you look at it, at some point, I think Jerry's
going to be like Jerry always has enough time to
(14:55):
have a bad time. He's getting up there in ages
in his eighties. I don't think he's really going to
want to risk that with Micah for the sake of
being stubborn.
Speaker 1 (15:01):
I mean, and I don't want to spend a ton
of time on this, but the way I look at it,
if Jerry Jones is willing to just pick up the
phone and call the agent, I feel like they'll get
the deal done. But if he's just gonna be stubborn
about it, that's how you get to the whole franchise
tat thing, which again the Cowboys have gone down that
road before.
Speaker 3 (15:19):
Yeah, I think to me, the most jarring moment of
this whole conversation was I was at Denver Broncos practice
and all of a sudden, Micah Parsons put out a
three page statement saying he wants to be traded for
the Cowboys. And I know that people say they want
to be traded. I know that Miles Garrett said that.
I know that Terry McLaurin and the Commanders had said
that they don't have a deal. As at the time
we're recording this podcast. No one does this in Dallas. Again,
(15:40):
I've been in this covering this league for ten years.
Not one person has asked for the Cowboys to trade
them away.
Speaker 1 (15:44):
I didn't do a dack didn't do it right.
Speaker 3 (15:46):
So that's just not what they had other I mean again,
I was there when Zeke was holding out forty days
in Cabos San Lucas. There have been a DeMarcus Lawrence.
I was there when he would not get his shoulder
surgery until they give him a contract. So I'm not
saying no one had tactics, but no one's you use
this one to. When I say that, I was like, oh,
is Jerry gonna just draw a hard line of if
you don't want to play here, I don't want you
here because if that's how he believes in the brand.
And then I'm there a few days later and Mike
(16:08):
is on the sideline and he's talking to this player here,
and okay, maybe he's not talking to Jerry, but he's
talking to Will McLay, their VP of player personnel, And
during the individual drills he's talking to defensive coordinator Matt Eberflus.
So I don't think this is quite as broken as
we're making it out.
Speaker 1 (16:22):
Yeah, when he showed up to practice the day after
you put the statement on, I'm like, all right, maybe
he really doesn't want to get traded. That badly. It's
just kind of a negotiation thing. What do the Cowboys
have to do to challenge the Eagles? They've been kind
of the two teams that have gone back and forth
right over the past five six years. Do you think
they have the ability to make a run and get
back closer to that kind of eleven twelve when Mike
McCarthy era type of team.
Speaker 3 (16:42):
Yeah, I would say the two biggest question marks for
me are your defense if you don't have Micah Parsons.
The defense is significantly worse without Micah Parsons. And is
your run game at least average. I don't think you
need a great run game. You have Ceede Lamb and
George Pickens catching the ball from Dak Prescott, especially if
the offensive line is fine, they should be okay. But
you need something of run game for guys to respect, again,
as we were talking about with rust and the moonball,
(17:04):
so that you can get those guys open. Now, I
do think that if I'm playing fantasy, which I'm not,
you want that third receiver on your team. Because George
Pickens and Ceedee Lambs are covered well, Jalen Tolbert should
begin a lot of targets, so I think that there
are going to be some surprise players because of the
attention that those two receivers will be commanding.
Speaker 1 (17:21):
Nah Camonte Turprink with the other guys, there's lot of
damage this line. I think a lot of has have
to do with the young offensive line right right. They've
you know, they've turned that cool group over. No more
Zach Moore, no more Tyron Smith, Travis Frederick ORed a
while ago. It's all new guys and a lot of
first round, second round picks and still on their rookie contracts.
Do you think that line as the potential to come
together and kind of become the core of this group
(17:42):
like we've seen Cowboy offensive lines do so in the past.
Speaker 3 (17:45):
Yeah, I think you've have been it on the head,
which is that when the Cowboys offensive line has been
good the last decade decad and a half, the team
has been really good and made it to the playoffs.
When they've struggled on the offensive line, that's pretty much
been like complete correlation with how they've done in the
regular season and ultimately making it to the post season,
if not advancing super far into the postseason. So I
would say, I think we have to give the Cowboys
some credit for being able to draft offensive linemen, because
(18:08):
these guys were talking about are all homegrown, and they've
continued to take first round offensive lineman again recently, which
I think is a good investment. So I think they
can do it, but it might take a little while.
At the beginning of the season is usually pretty rough
for offensive linemen.
Speaker 1 (18:20):
If you want to know how to manage two minutes
of crunch time football, I'm your matt But if you're
wondering about a long term financial plan, you should talk
to citizens.
Speaker 2 (18:27):
Hey, I can also talk long care.
Speaker 3 (18:29):
I'd like to learn about amliarutine.
Speaker 1 (18:30):
Yes, I knew I could help make sense of your
money with citizens. All right, let's stick in the NFC.
Any teams that you think people in the general public
might be sleeping on, that you think might be better
than their being given credit for.
Speaker 3 (18:45):
I don't think we're sleeping on the rams, but if
we think the rooms are good, like they could be
great again. I think would be the last year exactly.
I think that this is a team that I do
think Matthew Stafford will be out their week one, perhaps
limited in terms of how comfortable he is. I don't
think he's going to be limited in terms of his game,
But I do think that, like I talked to their
general manager Lessening about having DeVante Adams in the building,
and I talked to Puka Nicoo about learning from Devonte.
(19:06):
And no one's doubting what Cooper Cup did. He was
obviously incredible for that team and a big reason they
want a Super Bowl. But I think that when you
look at what Davante's doing, it's kind of like a
new perspective when so many other guys had been Here's
what Sean McVay taught me, and here's what I've been
doing my entire career. And so I think having DeVante
and Puka and oh, by the way, you still have
Kien Williams. And when I was at the Cowboys Rams
joint practice, the Cowboys are sorry. The Rams were significantly
(19:28):
stronger on both sides of the line of scrimmage and
the Cowboys, and I think that that is in large
part because of how well they've drafted lately.
Speaker 1 (19:35):
The Rams have a very good young defensive line that
a lot of those guys could end up breaking out
this year for sure. How about the forty nine ers,
do you think they might have a big resurgent year.
It's funny. They have these years every now and then
they just get a lot of injuries in their bad
of course, then they get to like draft Nick Bosa,
it turns out the end of being really good again.
Do you think this could be a big bounce back
year for for San Francisco?
Speaker 2 (19:53):
I think it could.
Speaker 3 (19:54):
I think they still have the talent, but as you mentioned,
I think that it's fair to question their health. And Okay,
they don't have Deba Sam anymore. Okay, you've got guys
who have been having some lingering injuries, is old, right, Yeah,
they've lost some guys tar various awards and there are
so I think that there are a lot of question
marks there. I think that their floor should always be
pretty high in terms of what Kyle Shanahan can do,
Rock Purty, et cetera.
Speaker 2 (20:15):
But I do think that they have some question marks.
Speaker 1 (20:17):
Yeah. And look, and they never bet against Kyle Shannon.
Another team, by the way, on the Giants schedule of
this year, because somehow they finished in last place like
the Giants, so they have to face each other. Is
there a team in the AFC that does not have
one of the big four quarterbacks and that's obviously Lamar Jackson,
Josh Allen, Patrick Mahomes, Joel Burrow that you think can
challenge one of those teams to get to the Super Bowl.
Speaker 3 (20:38):
Champayne is very high on his Broncos team. I think
when you see what he did with bon Knicks last year,
he believes he's got that guy. They might be the
best defense in the year in the league this year.
I mean, I think that they have that talent and
that got the defensive Player of the Year, and so
I think when you see what bon Nicks as year two,
if he builds on it, I do think that the Broncos,
despite coming from a really tough division. I think the
(20:59):
Chiefs will in the division, but I'm not sure. I
think the Broncos could challenge them for the division. And
if you got home field advantage in Denver, I mean,
I don't think.
Speaker 2 (21:05):
That's out of the question.
Speaker 1 (21:07):
No, I don't think it is either. And the Broncos
also maybe have the best offensive line in the league too.
So if you can combine those two things, a great
offensive line, a really good defense, play caller at a
great break caller, that that is not a bad formula.
Here's an interesting one. I'm throwing this on you, so
feel free to think about it for a few seconds.
What division do you think is most likely in the
NFL to have three playoff teams come out of that division?
(21:27):
Team last year was I believe the AFC North. I
think did it too right? Didn't they? Then the Steelers
make it with the Ravens, though the Beans did not.
They were it was the NFC North last year, and I'm.
Speaker 3 (21:39):
Sorry, I mean I could see that af I think
the AFC North. Yeah, I think the AFC North is
it this year because I mean, you'd have the Ravens,
you'd have the Bengals and the Steelers. I don't know
that the Steelers will go all the way, but I
do think with Aaron Rodgers, they should be a better team.
League wis some suggests that usually about eighteen months after
you have that tier, you're a little bit better. So
I think the beginning of last year he was kind
of dealing with, like, oh, the calf is a little
(22:00):
bit hurt because of the achilles from beforehand. I think
he should be better. He's got DK Metcalfe in house,
and I think that defense is good. I also will
say that just the vibe around Aaron Rodgers and the
Steelers felt very different to me than Aaron Rodgers and
the Jets.
Speaker 1 (22:13):
I'm curious.
Speaker 3 (22:13):
I think that with the Jets, and obvious it's not,
but it's been a long time since they've had success,
and I think they were really like, Aaron Rodgers is
our savior and we're going to have success. Not to
mention the injury that happened, and obviously, who knows what
would be different if he didn't get that injury season
ending four snaps into his Jets career. But on the
Steelers end, I feel like the Steelers are like, you've
been here before, but so have we as a franchise
and maybe not the last few years, maybe, but we're
(22:35):
not losing. We don't have losing seasons. Mike Tomlins famously,
what is that eighteen years no losing sight.
Speaker 1 (22:40):
This is Mike Tomlin's team and you're coming into it.
It's not Aaron.
Speaker 3 (22:43):
Rodgers say yeah, right, And I think that they that
Aaron respects Mike in a way that maybe hasn't respected
some of his coaches recently. I'm not saying that in
terms of necessarily how he directly handled it, but I
think in terms of the approach, so I do think
that they have a lot of potential even in a
difficulty And I just think, to me, the biggest question
with Aaron Rodgers is his mind is still one of
(23:04):
the best, if not the best at the position in
the game, and his arm is still great. So just
to me take out a little bit of the mobility,
be a little more realistic about how much you can
move around. And maybe I'm wrong on that. Maybe he
does have it back after that extra time from the injury,
and then you should be able to do it.
Speaker 1 (23:18):
And I'm curious, and I'll do my final question as
you look, and I think by the way, they'll run
the ball a lot more in Pittsburgh. Yeah, No, won't
put as much on his shoulders, because that's what the
Steelers do. As you win around the league, What are
maybe one trend on offense and one trend on defense
that you think might be coming down the pike in
the NFL from talking to some of these coordinators that
you think teams might be leaning into on both sides
(23:38):
of the ball a little bit.
Speaker 2 (23:39):
Yeah, I would say one thing on offense.
Speaker 3 (23:41):
Does the Commanders did a whole lot of things that
interest me, but I would say that what interests me
most is I didn't realize how much they went no
huddle last year. I mean, I believe it was sixty
one point four percent of time last year the Commanders
went no huddle. That's more than double the next high number.
I think it was like twenty five percent and more
than five times the average. And look what it did
for Jayden Daniels. And I think that's relevant for you
guys here at the Giants because when, yeah, when you
(24:02):
see what Jackson darkin do I think that the Cincinnati
Bengals defender Cam Taylor Britt famously was like, oh, Jade Daniels,
He's just running a college offense.
Speaker 2 (24:09):
It's simple.
Speaker 3 (24:10):
And I don't even think that he actually meant it
as an insul as much as it was taken it
that way. But I do think people kind of viewed
it as a mockery, and it turned out that Clik
Kingsbury was actually just like, why don't I play to
Jaden's strengths instead of just doing something the way the
NFL has done. And I think that a lot of
teams around the league are watching the Commander's blueprint for
developing Jayden and saying, hey, we should probably do something
like this. So whether that's no huddle or whether that's
(24:32):
some of these more college principles, I do think we'll
see that. Defensively, that's a good question. But I have
been just very intrigued by the way that Brian Flores
has revolutionized what Minnesota has done. I think when you
look at it, I mean they were basically a bottom
five offense in a lot of categories before he got there.
In two years in their top five, and I would
say we're already seeing some of the trends in terms
of like the versatility of his players, like what he
(24:53):
did in Minnesota with certain guys like Andrew Vankinkle, and
technically Fangio had done that with Andrew vankin gold Well.
Now the Eagle are like, well, why don't we take
a chance on Zach Bond and see if we can
have our guy? And essentially this idea of being able
to change the coverage without changing the personnel, and I
think that defenses that can do that feel really really
strongly about how they're able.
Speaker 2 (25:12):
To confuse offenses.
Speaker 3 (25:13):
Because I had an offensive coordinator tell me about Brian
Flores like, I'm just guessing against him because what they're
showing me pre snap it could be true, it could
be not, it could be what I saw on film
from last week.
Speaker 2 (25:22):
It could have nothing to do with that.
Speaker 1 (25:23):
Now the schemes are different, but it reminds me a
lot of when we had Wink Morton Dale here, and
what he always said to us is that, look, generally speaking,
in the NFL, the offense will dictate what the defense
ends up doing. Right, Wink was always like, that's not
how I'm gonna play. I'm going to set my personnel
and my formation on defense. Well, I'm gonna tell the offense, well,
I'm not gonna let you do these things because if
(25:45):
you do, it's not going to work against what I'm
putting out there. And I feel like that's what Flores does,
except he's even less predictable. Right, he uses three safeties.
He's going, you know, drop an eight and coverage. Sometimes
he's splits an eight. He's all over the place. And
I do wonder how person and now base that is,
if that will work for all these different teams, and
how that can filter out, because I do think that
(26:07):
is kind of the next duration, Right, How can defenses
confuse and dictate offenses who've been trying to do that
to defenses with motion. This is kind of like the
other side of that, right right.
Speaker 3 (26:15):
I think it's a great point because to me, like
what Brian Floreses is doing is threefold. Part of it
is the aggressive play calling and scheming. Part of it
is we have to execute that. And the way that
people are on lead telling me is like they kind
of feel like that defense has taken on Brian Flores's fiery,
tough personality and there's a sense of swagger that he's basically.
Speaker 2 (26:31):
Infusing in them.
Speaker 3 (26:31):
And then also the personnel and Brian Flores, I do
think it's been intentional about who they've gotten on that
defense to fit that. So if you don't have the
personnel and the scheme and just the general like demeanor
to do it, it really probably doesn't work.
Speaker 1 (26:43):
And you mentioned Van Ginkel, Harrison Smith being of safety
that's seen everything buying them right, another man that's super.
Josha Mattellus was there right, another super. So I think
you're right. I think it'll be really really interesting. All right,
tell the folks everything that you have gone on where
they should go find your work, social media, whatever you
want to promote the floors awesome.
Speaker 3 (27:00):
Thanks so much done. Yeah, Jewelry Epstein. So I'm at
Jewelry Epstein on Twitter and my work is largely found
on Yahoo Sports. Co host Inside Coverage the podcast there,
and I'm writing often on Yahoo Sports. So that's my
account on Twitter, on Instagram, all the things. And it's
great to be honest you No, this was so much fun.
Speaker 1 (27:15):
Thank you so much for doing it.
Speaker 2 (27:16):
Happy to be here.
Speaker 1 (27:17):
Jory Epstein on The Giants Total Podcast presented by Citizens
Official Bank of the Giants from the Hackensackmriny Hell Podcast,
who will keep getting better? Enjoyed everybody, We'll see you
next time.
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