June 20, 2025 • 42 mins
On this episode of the Giants Huddle podcast, John Schmeelk chats with The Athletic’s, Mike Silver. He discusses his new book, “The Why Is Everything”, which covers the Mike Shanahan coaching tree and the history of the NFL. The guys also talk about the NFC East going into the 2025 season.
:00 - The Mike Shanahan coaching tree
7:35 - Adjusting schemes over the years
13:30 - Competing against similar schemes
28:00 - NFC East
35:05 - Developing quarterbacks
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
It's time to get inside the Giants.
Speaker 2 (00:02):
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Let's go Giants, dont get get out on the Giants mobile.
Speaker 2 (00:07):
Give me some joke.
Speaker 1 (00:07):
Part of the Giants Podcast Network.
Speaker 3 (00:09):
Let's role.
Speaker 2 (00:10):
Welcome to anothers of the Giants Little Podcast, brought to
you by Citizens, the official bank of the Giants. Today's
guest of the Giants Little Podcast. You welcome in Michael Silver,
who is one of the great football writers, covers the
NFL for The Athletic. How many years, Mike have you
covered the NFL? Now?
Speaker 4 (00:24):
Wow? I think one hundred.
Speaker 3 (00:28):
I started covering the forty nine ers in nineteen eighty
nine for the now defunct Sacramento Union. But actually before that,
in eighty eight, I was out. I'd been an intern
at Newsday in the summer after I got out of
college at cal Stick stuck around in the fall doing
(00:50):
preps for Newsday, which was awesome, and I picked up
a stringing assignment for the San Francisco Chronicle. So I
actually went to that game in eighty eight at the
Meadowlands when Montana and Young were still being juggled around
by Walsh and what would be his last year, Steve
(01:10):
Young played the first half. Montana played the second half.
Phil Simms led the Giants down to what looked like
a game winning touchdown very late, and Montana threw this
beautiful ball to the right sideline. Two Giant defensive backs
collided as Jerry Rice made the catch and what seventy
eight yards for a gameboarding touchdown, which added to the
(01:34):
legend of Montana. So yeah, I've been really really lucky
to that was at the old Stadium. Been to a
lot of cool games since, including in your neck of
the woods.
Speaker 2 (01:44):
So when you were a news day was was Glober
there yet?
Speaker 4 (01:48):
Or no Glober was there? It was an epic lineup.
Speaker 3 (01:51):
Peter King was there though I never that's right, never
interacted with him.
Speaker 4 (01:56):
But I had some incredible assignments.
Speaker 3 (01:58):
I got to do the Empires State games in Syracuse,
did a Yankee sidebar, covered a I guess an Indie
car race they had in the parking lot at the Meadowlands.
Basically all sorts of really cool stuff. And yeah, and
the crew on preps was also very distinguished. We had
(02:19):
aj Benza in that group, the legendary Greg Sarah, among others.
Speaker 2 (02:25):
That is fantastic. All right, So Mikes joining us today
in the Hackensack Brity Hell podcast, you would keep getting
better because he his new book. They came out at
the end of twenty four.
Speaker 3 (02:32):
Correct, Yeah, this came out last October, and it is
a story of basically the Shanahan McVeigh coaching crew, which
includes so many others. The main characters in this book
include Mike McDaniel, Raheie Morris, Batt Lafleur, so five current
NFL head coaches, but really starts with Mike Shanahan kind
(02:56):
of rebuilding his career with Steve Young, who I mentioned
getting the forty nine ers rolling in the nineties, then
going to Denver doing it with Lway adding outside zone
into that schematic ebix, and then that staff in the
early twenty tens with all five of these guys above
others in Washington where RG three shows up as a
(03:22):
raw rookie and they end up transporting their entire system
to run it out of the pistol and taking a
league by storm. So yeah, it's a really cool story
about how football's evolved, about how this crew and their
different mindset has played a huge role. But I don't
want everyone to think it's just totally a high concept thing.
(03:43):
There's tons of pettiness and rivalry and dirt all through
it that will illuminate you as you go through it.
Speaker 2 (03:55):
Yeah. And the name of the book is the Why
Is Everything? A story of football, rivalry and revolution. This one.
I would normally hold up the book, but I have
it digitally, so I can't hold up the books. So
I'm gonna have to virtually Paul he's got it right there,
say he's got the hard copy.
Speaker 4 (04:08):
I'm prepared. Yeah.
Speaker 3 (04:09):
And it's you know, Amazon or anything you want to
click on will have it. Your bookstore should have it.
It is it's it's a winner. If you love football,
you'll be into it. And if you don't know football
that well, I think it'll give you a sense of
the bizarre world in which you and I and others traffic.
Speaker 4 (04:29):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (04:29):
Look, and the reason I wanted to talk to you, Mike,
is because this coaching tree has sprouted so many roots
of the league. You mentioned some of the names, though,
Kevin O'Connell into the mix, though Zach Taylor into the mix.
There are so many guys that have come off of
this tree. And I want to start here, Why did
you choose the title that you did? Specifically the why
is everything and why did you want to start with that?
(04:49):
When it comes to this group of coaches.
Speaker 4 (04:51):
That's a good question.
Speaker 3 (04:53):
I mean, honestly, I kind of lost the battle with
my publisher, my agent and others, but you know, I
think you know, you hear the term the why, and
it just keeps coming up when you talk to these people,
and it really represents the revolution that has taken place
(05:13):
during my time covering football, that they've been at the
forefront of so for so long. Football coaches were kind
of like, we do it because it works, We do
it because that's the way it's been done. Don't ask questions,
just do what we say. And if there was an
overall theory behind what they were doing as opposed to
just coming up with plays and picking them off a
(05:34):
du it was not conveyed to the people executing it,
and that's the way they liked it. This group, everything
is an ecosystem and everything is based off I know
your rules. I'm going to try to exploit them this way.
I'm anticipating your counter move. We have an answer if
you do that. It's not infallible, but that's the mentality,
(05:55):
and everything is open to being questioned, and creative solutions can.
Speaker 4 (06:00):
Come up on the fly.
Speaker 3 (06:01):
But their rule with each other is you have to
be able to tell me the why. You have to
be able to explain to me why you want this
play in the game plan, what is the larger purpose
of it in the context of everything that we do
and that we are. And then you also need to
be able to explain that to the players, not just
if they asked, but hey, receivers, we tell you to
(06:25):
go seven and a half steps with your shoulder pointed
this way and then turn. Every single time you run
this route and hear this call, this is why we're
doing that. We're setting them up for this or it
makes this other thing work. And so they have found
that that's kind of a cooler way to operate. And
I think you know shorthand version of that is these
(06:46):
scientists are overtaking the meatheads, and these guys are at
the forefront.
Speaker 2 (06:52):
Yeah, and look, and I think you kind of brought
up there to me, what makes this group different? You know,
so many times throughout the NFL Lea've seen them, Mike,
it's all sickle, right. Defense starts doing one thing, offense reacts,
they do another and the defense reacts to that, they
do another. In a lot of ways, this McVeigh system
wasn't a response to the great Pete Carroll Cover three
systems in Seattle. Everyone thought of running cover three. This
(07:13):
system figured out a way to beat that sort of stuff.
But I think what impresses me the most about this group,
and I think we've seen it with McVeigh in terms
of how he's changed his run game. We've seen Kyle
Shanahan that since he's changed quarterbacks with Party, he's altered
his offense a little bit. These guys are not static
in their system.
Speaker 3 (07:28):
You know.
Speaker 2 (07:28):
It used to be with his dad, Mike, all the
outside zone stuff, right, McVeigh doesn't even run outside zone anymore.
Their ability and willingness to adjust their philosophy I think
sets them apart from some other coaches in the past
that had a single way of doing things and that's
what they were going to do, come hell or high water.
Speaker 3 (07:46):
Yeah, And it aligns with this era as rookie quarterbacks
are thrown in right away, So that RG three example
is a classic example. He had only run things out
of the pistol at Baylor, and obviously they were going
to have to play him, and he was a transcendent talent.
And so instead of saying r G three, we're going
to make you learn our offense. And you know, they
were like, hey, how do we keep the essence of
(08:09):
our offense but you know, adjust it so that he
can run it. And it was very hard endeavor that
involved a lot of you know, backwards thinking, and we
get into that in terms of the number says you
go this way, but now we have to actually have
the other side of the line blocked this way because
his own read they figured all that out and the
(08:32):
rest of the league really didn't. So you're right, it's
you know, the first thing is we're not just going
to force a player to you know, run it the
way we've always run it. For the sake of you know,
our system. We will make our system pliable. But yeah,
it is you know, it is ever evolving. And you know,
(08:54):
you mentioned McVeigh, Kyle Shanahan.
Speaker 4 (08:59):
You know, this is a group that.
Speaker 3 (09:03):
Is constantly evolving visa VI each other. There's actually, oh
you mentioned the cover three's it's there's a great sequence
in this book where Kyle Shanahan goes to Atlanta after
washing out in both Washington and Cleveland didn't wash out,
but forced his way out after a dysfunctional year with
(09:24):
Johnny Manziel and all that, and gets to Atlanta with
dan Quinn, and so he's practicing against that dan Quinn
Pete Carroll Seattle three defense you know, every day, and
Kyle figures out their rules and figures out how to
break the rules. And there's an example of a game
in Seattle where the Falcons make them follow their rules
(09:48):
and get a tight end running wide open down the
middle of the field, and Richard Sherman and the other
guys on the seatk defense are screaming at each other
and screaming at their coaches because the system doesn't allow
them to cover that route, and Kyle has figured it out.
So then when Kyle gets the forty nine er job,
he ends up hiring Robert Sala. He's comfortable with that
(10:10):
Seattle three scheme, another guy who comes from that, and
he wants to run that scheme. And you know, there's
a quote in the book where another coach says, the
forty Nares keep getting burned in those early solid years,
and Kyle doesn't even understand that they're just copying his stuff.
He's broken the system. Everybody else has now figured it
out because of Kyle, and now it's coming back to
(10:33):
bite him and he hasn't even made the connection yet
that he's burning himself. So yeah, totally cyclical. You know
they were gonna adapt it to Trey Lance. That's a
whole debacle that we cover.
Speaker 4 (10:46):
But you know, how do you.
Speaker 3 (10:47):
Survive using three ones to take someone three overall and
having him not be a good NFL player?
Speaker 4 (10:57):
Usually you don't.
Speaker 3 (10:58):
Everyone's fired, the organization set back, unless with the two
hundred and sixty second and last pick the next year,
you end up taking a guy Brock Party, who can
can be your franchise quarterback.
Speaker 2 (11:11):
It's amazing, Mike, and I always like to make this point,
how much in the NFL people like to dismiss luck,
and how much luck has to do with everything. You know,
people are like, oh, the Niners were such geniuses for
finding Brock Party, and I'm like, you do, as he
had a seventh round pick before Party. If they thought
he was going to be that good, something tells you
they would have used the first seventh round pick on him.
And that, yeah, my last one.
Speaker 3 (11:32):
Right and one of the delicious surprises of this book,
and I have it all documented. Is you know, I
go way back with Mike Shanahan, and I was spending
a lot of time with him in that twenty twenty
two offseason, and of course I was asking him a
lot about Trey Lance and Jimmy Garoppolo because he still watches,
you know, all the practice tape and everything. And he
(11:53):
kept mentioning Brock Party because Mike had seen now Ota
tapes and bitty camp tapes and this.
Speaker 4 (12:01):
Draft or this you know, last pick of the draft.
Speaker 3 (12:03):
This guy was popping out to Mike Shanahan and he
kept speaking of Rock Party, and so you know, I
kind of had my eye on Party because of that
in training camp. And then there's a scene in the
book where they're getting ready to play the Bears in
the season opener. It's Trey Lance's first game as the
actual starter in his second year, and Mike Shanahan has
(12:25):
me go to his room in the JW. Marriott in
downtown Chicago and we're talking about the game the next day,
and I'm asking him about Trey Lance, and again he
brings up Purty and he says, when you have a
guy like that in your building. You don't let him out,
and I'm like, wait, we're talking about brock Purdy, right
like kind of you know, I get chills thinking about
(12:48):
it now. So you're right, you know, as brilliant as
Kyle is, and you know, you really see a portrait
of that in this book.
Speaker 4 (12:56):
I think Mike was a little earlier on.
Speaker 3 (12:58):
Purty than Kyle, because if Kyle had understood it to
that level. You're right, he doesn't go to sixty two.
They don't play around. They got him a lot higher.
And of course they just paid him like a guy
who you would have taken third overall.
Speaker 2 (13:11):
The Giants Total podcast is brought to you by Citizens,
the official bank of the Giants. From game day celebrations
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the most out of every moment with Citizens. Learn more
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Speaker 4 (13:24):
Puddle up, get in here.
Speaker 2 (13:25):
If you're lined up here, you gotta go over the
middle with at the score great.
Speaker 4 (13:29):
How do we make that happen?
Speaker 2 (13:31):
I don't know, but Citizens does makes sense of your money.
With Citizens Official Bank of Eli Manning and and very
well deserving. By the way, he's an excellent quarterback you
mentioned Raheem Morris. He's kind of the sore thumb in
this because he's a defensive guy. How does he fit
into this whole like offensive guru group and how does
that work well.
Speaker 3 (13:52):
Raheem Morris is the one who's quote provided the chapter
title to one of my favorite chapters, which is enemy Friends,
which is the way he describes Sean McVay and Kyle
Shanah had. He's very close friends with both. They're they're
not like that with each other. They a lot of
respect and a lot of history. But Raheem would be
a common denominator. But it's interesting you mentioned that because
(14:14):
he was a young coach in Tampa, very young, had
some early success following John Grudin, and then was fired
after three seasons, and it took him a long time
to get that second opportunity, and he did establish himself
as a great defensive coordinator.
Speaker 4 (14:29):
But one of the things that happens in the book.
Speaker 3 (14:32):
Is that Kyle, after his first year in Atlanta, is
looking for a receivers coach to replace Terry Rubisky, and
dan Quinn has asked Rahim, hey, can you vet some
candidates for me? And Raheem at one point says to Quinn,
you know, these guys, A couple of these guys are
really good. But Kyle doesn't necessarily need a classic receivers coach.
(14:55):
He knows the position so well. He just needs a
guy who understands him and what he wants and how
he communicates and could communicate it to the players.
Speaker 4 (15:03):
And you know, Dan kind of goes huh.
Speaker 3 (15:06):
And then Raheem's at a mall a few hours later
and Dan calls him and goes.
Speaker 4 (15:11):
What about you? And Raheem's like, huh.
Speaker 3 (15:15):
And eventually Kyle decides to receivers coach and switches him
over to offense, and so Raheem ends up getting a
bunch fuller understanding of the other side of the ball.
And it was illuminating to all these guys because Matt
Lafleur told me, now, I always want a defensive guy
with my offensive coaches and vice versa, at least as
(15:38):
a consultant. And we saw that with Robert Saul last
season after he got fired by the Jets. But you know,
they like the you know, reverse perceive, and you know
it obviously makes people a well rounded coach. Mike Shanahan
advised Kyle when he was a quality control coach in
Tampa starting out on that Gruden staff, which is how
(15:58):
he and Rahee Morris bonded so much. But he advised Kyle,
he goes, Hey, when you're done with your work, sitting
on the defensive meetings, it's Monnie Kiffin, it's Joe Barry,
it's Rahie Morris, it's Mike Tomlin. It's an incredible staff,
and you're going to learn so much. And that really
helped give Kyle a sense of the defensive side of
the ball. There are other examples in here, like Bobby
(16:18):
Slowick on that Washington staff as a defensive coach. They
end up moving him over to offense at San Francisco
and then he goes on to become the Texans offensive
coordinator in that CJ. Stroud rookie season. So but yeah,
raheem to me is an incredible character. He's really really
open about his development and maturity. He's very funny. It
(16:42):
gives you a really good portrait of him. And then
of course Mike McDaniel. I mean, I just hate sharing
him with the world now, you know, when he's miked
up and doing his thing. But I started taking Mike McDaniel.
I think as far back as twenty eighteen. I've known
him a long time, and you know, it was fun
when no one knew who he was was because he's
(17:02):
he's always been that out there and that funny and
that brilliant, and his story is so unlikely from the start,
you know, in terms of ending up as an NFL
head coach, And it really kind of fits in with
the whole rivalry aspect and how badly did Kyle Shanahead
want to keep Mike McDaniel.
Speaker 4 (17:23):
In San Francisco and not let him leave.
Speaker 3 (17:26):
Well, there's even a story of Mike McDaniel getting ready
for his first and only head coaching interview.
Speaker 4 (17:34):
I guess he ended up having another one with the Dolphins.
Speaker 3 (17:36):
But as league rules mandated during the twenty one playoffs
by zoom, and you know, he's got a Niners are
in the playoffs. He's got to time it up to
practice and all that. And mysteriously, the Niners practice schedule
keeps changing like three separate times, I think, and he
(17:56):
has to keep calling the Dolphins back and mess it
up to schedule, and uh, you know, in Mike's view,
that's Kyle just trying to you know, make it harder
and the Dolphins it kind of backfire because the Dolphins'
decision makers were like, he must really want to keep
this guy, like he must be pretty good.
Speaker 2 (18:15):
Two more on the book, and this goes back to
the point you kind of just made. These guys are
all friends, but their rivals too, right. They all came
under that Jay Gruden staff that you mentioned in Washington,
the Mike shanahead staff. Yeah, right, exactly, and then then
and then a lot of them were with Jay Groot
took over for Mike.
Speaker 3 (18:31):
Right.
Speaker 4 (18:31):
Eventually Ivey was the one who stayed with Jay Grutin yea.
Speaker 2 (18:34):
Yeah, got it. And they compete with each other, so
they love each other, but at the same time, they
want to beat each other and they want to one
up each other with scheme and x's and o's. How
does that rivalry kind of take place and open up
because I'm sure in some ways they compare notes, but
they also don't want to give each other too much
because they want to look like the better coach.
Speaker 3 (18:52):
Right, I mean, Shanahan and McVay are in the same division,
got hired at the same time, so there's no semblance
of co operation. I think they're pretty open about the rivalry.
They know each one knows the other one's good. They're
very different. McVeigh is much more tethered to the leadership
and the you know, communication with the players and the
(19:15):
vibe and scheme is almost secondary, whereas with Kyle it's
very very scheme oriented and he's gotten a lot better
in terms of the relating to players and the communication.
But you know, each one thinks his way is pair
about and Mike McDaniel says in the book, each one
almost has to believe that existentially, because you know, to
(19:38):
believe otherwise we'd go against everything they are. But great
juxtaposition there. You know, Lafleur and Kyle, who were very close,
got very crossed up during the time when it looked
like Aaron Rodgers was going to leave the Packers. You know,
in twenty twenty one, in that offseason, Kyle made a call.
(20:00):
Lafleur kind of thought that his friend was taking advantage
of a situation and possibly inside information because of their
friendship and trying to you know, deprive him of his MVP, and.
Speaker 4 (20:11):
It got pretty bad. It's all detailed in here.
Speaker 3 (20:14):
You know, it's better now, you know, McDaniel really respects
Kyle and owes him a lot and knows it, but
also felt like he was under Kyle's thumb in, you know,
in an unhealthy way for a long time.
Speaker 4 (20:27):
So there's there's a little bit of spice there.
Speaker 3 (20:30):
Uh. And then you know there are other various intersections,
and you know, you add into Kevin O'Connell's and Demiko
Ryan's and Robert Salla Brandon Staley, there's a lot going
on in this ecosystem at all times. But yeah, certainly
a ton of respect and they all love Mike Shanahan.
They all love Mike Shanahan, and they all love Rahim
(20:53):
everyone else.
Speaker 4 (20:54):
It's kind of fair.
Speaker 2 (20:55):
Game final question. And you kind of brought this up
in your last answer. You know, the success rate for
coaches off of this tree have has been very very high,
especially for the guys on the offensive side. And I
maybe it shouldn't surprise you, but Mike, you made the point.
X's and o's is a big part of this. But
as you well know, covering this league, as long as
(21:15):
you have the personality and connecting to your team and
that sort of stuff of being a head coach is
maybe more important. You can be the greatest tactician. If
you can't connect with your players and gets them to
believe in what you're doing, is not going to matter.
Why do you think, Michael, The guys from this tree
have all been able to figure out maybe their own
way of doing things that maybe a little bit different
from each other, but all of seemed to work in
(21:37):
terms of them connecting with their players.
Speaker 4 (21:40):
Yeah, and you know, hackets from this group.
Speaker 3 (21:42):
So it's not an infallible uh you know, sample size,
but yeah, you're right, it's been pretty good. And you know,
wallsh really started with Walls, who you know, kind of
begat Mike shad aheaded directly and you know Andy Reid
and like Home Gridd so so many others, but Bill
wallsh his tree and it was a big, big deal,
whereas the Belichick Parcels side has been more like hands off.
(22:05):
My coaches they all suck, don't touch them. And you know,
I just think for one thing, you know, it does
go back to what I said earlier. They take a
lot of pride in being able to explain why they're
asking their players to do certain things and then show
why it'll work. And so there are different ways to
communicate and create that culture. And with McVeigh sometimes it
(22:28):
sounds like a Ted talk and all that, whereas with
Kyle it's much more using video like look this dude,
you know this dB is gonna get caught right here.
We're gonna make his head spin. He's not gonna know
you know what the bleep just happened. And you know
you're gonna take it to the house. And you know,
it gets people fired up because of what he's showing them,
(22:50):
you know his plan is. But yeah, I think part
of it is just being you know, valuing, the valuing,
the need to explain to players why what we're asking
is important and why it's gonna work if you do
it the way we asked you to.
Speaker 4 (23:07):
You know, that goes a long way.
Speaker 3 (23:08):
And then of course we juxtapose everything with the you know,
parcels and now Belichick tree, and there have been instances
of high profile failures, you know, from the Belichick side
in recent years that we can all point to spectacularly.
Speaker 2 (23:24):
Right, We wouldn't know any thing about that over here, Michael, Yeah, right.
Speaker 3 (23:27):
And and you know, and you know, and and Dave
Ball to me is really interesting because you know, he's
from that tree. And he definitely has plenty of those tendencies.
But I do think he has tried really hard not to,
you know, be a Bill clone.
Speaker 4 (23:42):
And you know, the people from.
Speaker 3 (23:45):
There who've succeeded, and I would count Bill O'Brien as
someone who succeeded if you look back and what he
did in Houston with you know, with lesser quarterbacks than
Deshaun Watson most of the time. But the ones who've
succeeded have seemed to recognize like, yeah, Bill did a
lot of great things, but trying to be him isn't
(24:07):
the formula.
Speaker 4 (24:08):
And you know, I.
Speaker 3 (24:08):
Always, you know, I laugh at the you know, in
Siano's kind of adjacent. But what Josh McDaniels did the
first time in Denver, Matt Patricia, Joe Judge, as you know,
it's like it's almost like they coached as though, Hey,
if I just act like a jerk like Bill did,
I'll win.
Speaker 2 (24:27):
And I you know, Bill.
Speaker 4 (24:28):
Didn't win because he acted like a jerk.
Speaker 3 (24:30):
He won because he's one of the greatest coaches of
all time, and he had Tom Brady, not necessarily in
that order. So if you can coach like Bill and
get a Tom Brady act however you want.
Speaker 4 (24:41):
It's gonna be fine.
Speaker 3 (24:43):
But merely acting like him is not gonna unlock anything.
And it doesn't really you know, endear you to your
players early on, and that can hurt you if it's
not happening. And let's be honest, you know, it didn't
go great for Bill post Brady when he didn't have
you know, success and the infrastructure to get away with that.
(25:05):
And of course that's back when Bill preached so many
things that.
Speaker 4 (25:09):
On paper he may be you know, violating.
Speaker 3 (25:13):
The spirit of I don't get into all that, but
it is you know a lot of people have remarked,
you know, about how Bill's culture now is at odds
with what he preached for so long. But you know,
I do think Davis has a chance. I mean, that
first year was really striking. I don't know how they
did that.
Speaker 2 (25:32):
Either might be yeah, and I'm.
Speaker 3 (25:34):
Not sure, and I'm not sure they knew from talking
to them. I mean, they knew it could go okay,
but like they were, you know, they were way ahead
of schedule, as you know, and then you know, you
know the rest.
Speaker 4 (25:45):
But you know, I'm.
Speaker 3 (25:47):
Excited to see, you know, what Brian might be able
to pull off this year. It's going to be really tough.
It's a brutal division. And you know you've either got
you know, you've either got a veteran quarterback trying to
recapture his former glories, or you know, you throw in
(26:07):
a rookie under duress. But you know it's it's going
to be really interesting. And I will say this about
day Ball, and so in this book we talk about
the specific, often offensive side of the ball schematic brilliance
of this group, and I'll stand by that, but there
have been some other, you know, great coaching things that
(26:27):
happened that we don't get into it this book, you know,
from Sean Payton to Andy Reid and so many others.
But I cite day Ball a lot in that. You know,
everyone's always told me you can't coach accuracy. You either
have it or you don't. And you know, I saw
that with Trey Lance very vividly. And yet we have
an example, the only one that I've ever heard of,
(26:48):
and Noah, of a guy who was a fifty five
percent passer, Josh Allen, who got coached up to the seventies.
And it's you know, I still marvel at it and
so because Brian day Ball as coordinator in Buffalo was
part of that and probably a big part of that.
You know, it had it got a lot of people's attention,
(27:10):
and I would still say, you know, it's hard to
write him off as a strategist, you know, in the
wake of that. And so you know, look, Anthony Richardson,
I think is forty four point nine percent something ghastly.
I think even before I saw his shoulder thing, you know,
I thought Daniel Jones would beat him out almost certainly,
(27:33):
you know, because he just hasn't been able to find
accuracy and Trey Lance just has not been able to
find accuracy. And you know, may never start another game
in the NFL. But if you're looking for a path
forward ever, figure out what Brian Daball did in Buffalo
with Josh Allen, because it was unbelievable. If you want
(27:53):
to know how to manage two minutes of crunch time football,
I'm your man.
Speaker 2 (27:56):
But if you're wondering about a long term financial plan, you.
Speaker 4 (27:59):
Should talk to cit Us.
Speaker 2 (28:00):
Hey, I can also talk long care.
Speaker 4 (28:02):
I'd like to learn about Annliar team. Yes, I knew I.
Speaker 2 (28:04):
Could help make sense of your money with citizens all right.
By the way, the book again, the Why is Everything?
A story of football rivalry and revolution. Michael will hold
it up there we go. All right, So you mentioned
it's a really tough division Michael for the Giants this year. Look,
their defense is a lot of players on it. We
don't know about the quarterback. What has to happen here?
Do you think for the Giants to make some noise
(28:25):
in this division? And what do you think this division
is going to look like when we get to the
end of the year here, besides the fact that the
Eagles are probably one thing going to be on top
of it.
Speaker 3 (28:32):
I mean, the Eagles look like a monster. They did
lose some guys, but you know, I have a feeling
the Eagles will at least be one of the better
teams in the league during the regular season. That seems
like a fair bet. You know, Dallas is interesting. They've
got some energy with Brian Schottenham. I'm gonna be writing
about him for the Athletic coming up very soon and
spend some time with him out in Frisco, I guess
(28:56):
or yeahs it? And you know there is a vibe there,
you know, on paper. Not sure if they've got the
juice to make a run at the Eagles, but they're
into it.
Speaker 4 (29:10):
At least they think something's going on.
Speaker 3 (29:12):
And then obviously Washington, you know you've got the young
quarterback who you know, I thought C J. Stroud the
year before was kind of transcended. And then I'm like, way,
I think Jayden Daniel's rookie year was even more striking.
Speaker 4 (29:25):
You know, they Dan Quinn, another.
Speaker 3 (29:28):
Guy who is you know, very familiar with this crew,
just a really positive guy who establishes a great culture.
So you know, they look like a team that could
be right in that mix. So I think, you know,
the Giants are gonna have to win close games. They're
going to have to you know, they've got those three
guys on the edge. You may get them all on
the field at times, you may have a rotation at times,
(29:51):
but you know they're gonna have to make some plays
on defense fueled by you know, a furious pass rush,
which you know I see a have to and then yeah,
just you know, figure out a way to be efficient
offensively and be really timely, you know, ideally get the
(30:12):
running game going a little bit. I shouldn't even mention that.
I just Giants fans don't want to hear me talking
about the running game and the Eagles.
Speaker 4 (30:19):
It's just it's too soon, man.
Speaker 3 (30:20):
I mean, like, what's a Giants fan doing on Super Sunday,
Like you know, stabbing their.
Speaker 4 (30:27):
Hand with a you know ork and like.
Speaker 3 (30:32):
Calling up like hard knocks clips and you know, throwing
their iPad like a frisbee. And yeah, you know it's
not a good subject. But listen, you know every season
is different. The hardest thing for me and I've been
doing this, now what this will be your thirty six?
Speaker 4 (30:50):
I guess you know.
Speaker 3 (30:52):
I can look at teams on paper, I can look
at who they have, I can look at who the
coaches are. But chemistry and football is really hard to quantify.
It not like other sports. You're asking yourself and people
around you to do insane things. You know, let your
arm bend back two hundred and seventy degrees to make
a play, and.
Speaker 4 (31:12):
You know, stuff that is not rational.
Speaker 3 (31:14):
And so if you feel, if there's a feeling there,
whether it's your coaches or the people around you, or
some larger vibe and purpose, sometimes that can propel teams
a long way. And it's really really hard to quantify
and to know and so I'll try to go to
some trading camps and vibe it out the best I can.
But the cool thing about, you know, pro football, is
(31:37):
that really is year to year and you really don't know.
Speaker 2 (31:40):
All right. Two more for Michael Silber before we say goodbye.
We appreciate the time today, and again go check out
his book. He had a lot of great stories in there.
There's even more if you go read the book. It
really is good. I always like to ask Michael, the AFC,
we kind of know what the good teams are going
to be. Just look who the quarterbacks are and what
teams are on and those teams are probably gonna be good.
Speaker 4 (31:55):
Right.
Speaker 2 (31:56):
NFC's a little bit more wide open. You don't have
that same level of quarterback playing the end. Are there
any teams in the NFC that you think are either
going to be a lot better than maybe some people
think and others that maybe had been good but you
think might take a step back?
Speaker 4 (32:09):
Great question.
Speaker 3 (32:10):
And look, if I mean statistically over at least twenty
five years, maybe longer, there's a fifty percent turnover in
the playoffs. And I agree with you on the AFC,
it seems more predictable now but history tells us there's
gonna be a lot of shuffling, and part of that
is the draft, all the communist stuff.
Speaker 4 (32:31):
You can see my shirt making fun of.
Speaker 3 (32:33):
Cal and representing that, representing the hammer and the sickle.
Speaker 2 (32:37):
But you're in San Francisco, it makes sense.
Speaker 4 (32:40):
Yeah, I mean I went to Cal. What a good due.
Speaker 3 (32:42):
But yeah, I I you know, I did write a
column when I was at Yahoo during the lockout in
twenty eleven talking about how the NFL has a lot
of communist properties, and it's a long conversation that I
would stand by that, but yeah, that whole worst Shelby
first thing, and so so the first thing I would
say is I was with an NFL offensive coordinator drinking
(33:06):
beers the other night and he asked me how I
thought the forty nine ers were going to do, and
he was skeptical about their chances, and I said, have
you seen their schedule? And he kind of rolled his
eyes like, dude, you don't, which is true. You don't
know really who's going to be good. It's hard to
just look at a schedule. So I go, okay, well,
I'm just going to read all seventeen in order, and
(33:28):
I read it to him and he was like his
mouth was dropping, and he's like, they could go eleven
to six playing bad according to that schedule, you know.
Speaker 2 (33:38):
So yeah, it's the exact opposite of the Giant schedule
when they're playing like every single playoff team in good
quarterback from last year.
Speaker 3 (33:45):
Yeah, and we don't know, you know, you know, we
don't know if a game it gets the Titans or
the Saints, is going to be a walkover like it.
Speaker 4 (33:54):
Seems but could be.
Speaker 3 (33:57):
Yeah, so let's look, let's look at the NFC. I
do think the Falcons have some potential to pop. Part
of it's by faith and Raheem Morris and just you know,
they were you know, Pendick showed me, you know, remember
that fourth down pass to extend that game against Washington
with the playoffs on the line that night game. He
had two of them, but one of them he just
(34:17):
threaded in there. I was like, oh, whoa, I see
it with him, so, you know, whereas with McCarthy, I
haven't seen it.
Speaker 4 (34:24):
So I'm a little bit more skeptical about the Vikings.
Speaker 3 (34:27):
So yeah, I do think the Falcons could be a
team that is surprising. And you know, I hate myself
for saying this, but maybe the Cowboys, you know, I
just I'm going to try to honor the vibe there
and I could be totally mistaken, you know. And then
you look at the AFC and you're like, yeah, is
there going to be someone who kind of pops out,
(34:51):
you know.
Speaker 4 (34:51):
And gives you some because you know, Denver kind.
Speaker 3 (34:55):
Of did that last year, Cleveland did it the year before.
You know, there's some there's some usual suspects. I'm really though,
intrigued by these Steelers for sure, now especially I want
to see exactly how that plays out, and hopefully they
are right there in that mix just to make it
(35:15):
more fun.
Speaker 2 (35:16):
Yeah, I think that will be fun. All right, Michael,
final question for you. You've been doing this a long time.
I've been covering. I've been with the Giants since two
thousand and seven. Nice and we've seen NFL teams develop
young quarterbacks in a million different ways, and there's no
one way that all right, this is the only way
to do it. This always works. We've seen it work
where guys sit. We've seen a guy work where guys
(35:38):
get thrown in right away. The Giants are going to
go through this issue with Jackson dark, When is he
going to be ready? When do you get him in there?
How do you think, based on all your experience talking
to all these offensive coaches and stuff, what's the best
way to handle these young quarterbacks? Or is it really
so individualized to the player there's no way to talk
about it in general.
Speaker 3 (35:57):
I mean, I come from an earlier era where almost
everyone struggled as a rookie when they did play, and
a lot of guys waited and it had good results.
And I could certainly point to some examples even to
this era where waiting was better. Mahomes got basically the
first year. I mean, looking back, it's like really, but
still it seemed to help. You know, Rogers obviously got
(36:19):
the three years, and then Jordan Love, although I wouldn't
the notion that it's like far Rogers Jordans.
Speaker 2 (36:28):
I mean, well there yet he's not there yet.
Speaker 4 (36:30):
No, no, no, he's not closed.
Speaker 3 (36:31):
But you know he's doing okay, And so I do
think ideally you don't want to throw him in. And
you know, Marino was an anomaly, but look, you know
Matt Ryan was an anomaly.
Speaker 4 (36:44):
Kind of Flago was pretty good, Stroud was really good.
And now Daniels was really good.
Speaker 3 (36:49):
So I don't want to be you know that guy completely,
but I think ideally, you know, you are playing Russell
Wilson and you have Jamis too, So if that ends
up being if it ends up being Wilson, Jamis Dart
in my opinion, you know, try to see what you
(37:09):
have with your vets, because James has done a lot
of really cool things.
Speaker 4 (37:12):
Too, you know.
Speaker 3 (37:14):
The only thing, the only caveat is you know players know,
so if you are if you're in a situation where
just one guy in practice, it just it just looks
way way different over time and you're losing. I think
it's hard to tell the players, hey, we're gonna stick
with you know, the vet and at all costs. You
(37:39):
do have more credibility when it's Russell. He's a super
Bowl winner, you know, very very decorated player, almost one
second super Bowl, you know. And so I what I
don't like is when you say we're gonna stick with
the veteran no matter what, and then it's like he
has one bad game or you lose a couple and
you freak out and just put the rookie in.
Speaker 4 (38:00):
I don't think that serves anybody.
Speaker 3 (38:02):
Well, I think you try to stick with the veteran,
but you know, sometimes I mean, look, here's the all
time example. Anthony Lynn, who I thought did a really
good job as the Chargers head coach, had Toarrod Taylor,
who is as you know, respected as a guy for
his preparation and intelligence and the way he does things.
Speaker 2 (38:23):
Yeah, we had a mirror. He was great.
Speaker 4 (38:24):
We love him, Yeah, everyone loves him.
Speaker 3 (38:26):
And he's he's either the best backup in the league
or you know, a lower level starter.
Speaker 4 (38:31):
But he's like, Torod Taylor is a legit guy.
Speaker 3 (38:33):
And they drafted Justin Herbert, and Anthony Lynn was like,
I'm gonna let Justin develop, and I'm going to have
Torod Taylor, you know, be the starter no matter what.
So they're getting ready to play a game and he's
got Toronto's a rib injury and the Charger team doctor
tries to give him a pain culling injection and punctures
his long I think something something bad happens, really bad,
(38:57):
and thankfully Trod Taylor is rushed to the hospital but
doesn't have any long term damage. You know, that's the
most important thing. But meanwhile, Justin Herbert, with ninety seconds
of notice. Literally is told you're starting today against the Chiefs,
by the way, and you know whoa and he gets
thrown into the kid plays really really well.
Speaker 4 (39:17):
They almost win, and the next.
Speaker 3 (39:20):
Week he plays well and Anthony Lynn keeps going okay, yeah,
but to Rod's by starter, and not only is he
trying to stick to his plan what he thinks is right,
I mean, it's not a great look if the team
doctor shoots the guy punctures his lung with a pain
color ejection and then he loses his job for good.
I mean like I'm like, please, don't let this guy
(39:41):
lose his job. But you know, after enough games of
this with Justin Herbert, Anthony's finally like, okay, I'm starting Justin,
you know, and it is what it is, So that
would be you know, if Jackson Dart looks as good
right away as Justin Herbert, then it's a different conversation,
by the way, as good as Russell Wilson as a rookie.
But yeah, I hope for the Giant's sake that you know,
(40:06):
it's Russell, And then I hope if they need a
stopgap or a fill in for injury or for some reason,
a longer term solution during the season. I hope they
would give Jamis a fair look because you know, he's
pretty good, and I.
Speaker 2 (40:22):
Think they would. All Right, Michael, anything else about the
book you want the people to know, or anything else
you're up to that you're doing that you want the
people to know about. The floor is all yours?
Speaker 4 (40:29):
The why is everything?
Speaker 3 (40:30):
A story of football rivalry and revolution, available everywhere.
Speaker 4 (40:34):
I think you'll love it. And yeah, no, I'm gonna write.
Speaker 3 (40:37):
A couple more pieces for the athletic I'm going to
try to hide out a little bit, and then I'm
going to hit the cap circuit hard. Maybe I'll be
hanging out with you and Matty Burke on the sidelines,
you know. Check it out the quarterback follies. We'll have
to see how the schedule shakes out. Were you at
the London game in O seven, your first year?
Speaker 2 (40:58):
I was at the London game in all seven. Yeah,
the the the great Cleo Lemon, Eli Manning duel with
Eli Manning with the with the scramble for the touchdown. Baby.
Speaker 3 (41:06):
Never thought I was seeing a Super Bowl champion, you know,
in progress. But uh yeah, that was an ugly game, man,
that was that was game.
Speaker 4 (41:16):
It was.
Speaker 3 (41:17):
That was the first game in London at them and
I have not been back and I really hope a
guy end that streak this year for the Athletic working
on it.
Speaker 4 (41:25):
But uh, that was just such a cool you know.
Speaker 3 (41:28):
I spent the whole week out there and uh, yeah,
that was really really cool. So all right, well, thank
you for having me and yeah, The Why Is Everything
available everywhere from.
Speaker 2 (41:39):
The Athletic Michael Silver, Mike, we appreciate the time. Thanks
so much.
Speaker 4 (41:41):
Thanks a lot.
Speaker 2 (41:43):
That's Mike Silver from the Athletic. Make sure you go
check out his new book, The Why Is Everything? A
story of football, rivalry and revolution. Great stuff from Mike.
Thank you for being with us in the Giants Little
podcast brought to you by Citizens Official Bank of the Giants.
Coming to you from our podcast studio, presented by Hackensack
and Mariney Health. Keep getting better for my Silver, I'm
John Schmolke. We'll see you next time.
It's time to get inside the Giants.
Speaker 2 (00:02):
Let's go, Let's go.
Speaker 1 (00:03):
Let's go Giants, dont get get out on the Giants mobile.
Speaker 2 (00:07):
Give me some joke.
Speaker 1 (00:07):
Part of the Giants Podcast Network.
Speaker 3 (00:09):
Let's role.
Speaker 2 (00:10):
Welcome to anothers of the Giants Little Podcast, brought to
you by Citizens, the official bank of the Giants. Today's
guest of the Giants Little Podcast. You welcome in Michael Silver,
who is one of the great football writers, covers the
NFL for The Athletic. How many years, Mike have you
covered the NFL? Now?
Speaker 4 (00:24):
Wow? I think one hundred.
Speaker 3 (00:28):
I started covering the forty nine ers in nineteen eighty
nine for the now defunct Sacramento Union. But actually before that,
in eighty eight, I was out. I'd been an intern
at Newsday in the summer after I got out of
college at cal Stick stuck around in the fall doing
(00:50):
preps for Newsday, which was awesome, and I picked up
a stringing assignment for the San Francisco Chronicle. So I
actually went to that game in eighty eight at the
Meadowlands when Montana and Young were still being juggled around
by Walsh and what would be his last year, Steve
(01:10):
Young played the first half. Montana played the second half.
Phil Simms led the Giants down to what looked like
a game winning touchdown very late, and Montana threw this
beautiful ball to the right sideline. Two Giant defensive backs
collided as Jerry Rice made the catch and what seventy
eight yards for a gameboarding touchdown, which added to the
(01:34):
legend of Montana. So yeah, I've been really really lucky
to that was at the old Stadium. Been to a
lot of cool games since, including in your neck of
the woods.
Speaker 2 (01:44):
So when you were a news day was was Glober
there yet?
Speaker 4 (01:48):
Or no Glober was there? It was an epic lineup.
Speaker 3 (01:51):
Peter King was there though I never that's right, never
interacted with him.
Speaker 4 (01:56):
But I had some incredible assignments.
Speaker 3 (01:58):
I got to do the Empires State games in Syracuse,
did a Yankee sidebar, covered a I guess an Indie
car race they had in the parking lot at the Meadowlands.
Basically all sorts of really cool stuff. And yeah, and
the crew on preps was also very distinguished. We had
(02:19):
aj Benza in that group, the legendary Greg Sarah, among others.
Speaker 2 (02:25):
That is fantastic. All right, So Mikes joining us today
in the Hackensack Brity Hell podcast, you would keep getting
better because he his new book. They came out at
the end of twenty four.
Speaker 3 (02:32):
Correct, Yeah, this came out last October, and it is
a story of basically the Shanahan McVeigh coaching crew, which
includes so many others. The main characters in this book
include Mike McDaniel, Raheie Morris, Batt Lafleur, so five current
NFL head coaches, but really starts with Mike Shanahan kind
(02:56):
of rebuilding his career with Steve Young, who I mentioned
getting the forty nine ers rolling in the nineties, then
going to Denver doing it with Lway adding outside zone
into that schematic ebix, and then that staff in the
early twenty tens with all five of these guys above
others in Washington where RG three shows up as a
(03:22):
raw rookie and they end up transporting their entire system
to run it out of the pistol and taking a
league by storm. So yeah, it's a really cool story
about how football's evolved, about how this crew and their
different mindset has played a huge role. But I don't
want everyone to think it's just totally a high concept thing.
(03:43):
There's tons of pettiness and rivalry and dirt all through
it that will illuminate you as you go through it.
Speaker 2 (03:55):
Yeah. And the name of the book is the Why
Is Everything? A story of football, rivalry and revolution. This one.
I would normally hold up the book, but I have
it digitally, so I can't hold up the books. So
I'm gonna have to virtually Paul he's got it right there,
say he's got the hard copy.
Speaker 4 (04:08):
I'm prepared. Yeah.
Speaker 3 (04:09):
And it's you know, Amazon or anything you want to
click on will have it. Your bookstore should have it.
It is it's it's a winner. If you love football,
you'll be into it. And if you don't know football
that well, I think it'll give you a sense of
the bizarre world in which you and I and others traffic.
Speaker 4 (04:29):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (04:29):
Look, and the reason I wanted to talk to you, Mike,
is because this coaching tree has sprouted so many roots
of the league. You mentioned some of the names, though,
Kevin O'Connell into the mix, though Zach Taylor into the mix.
There are so many guys that have come off of
this tree. And I want to start here, Why did
you choose the title that you did? Specifically the why
is everything and why did you want to start with that?
(04:49):
When it comes to this group of coaches.
Speaker 4 (04:51):
That's a good question.
Speaker 3 (04:53):
I mean, honestly, I kind of lost the battle with
my publisher, my agent and others, but you know, I
think you know, you hear the term the why, and
it just keeps coming up when you talk to these people,
and it really represents the revolution that has taken place
(05:13):
during my time covering football, that they've been at the
forefront of so for so long. Football coaches were kind
of like, we do it because it works, We do
it because that's the way it's been done. Don't ask questions,
just do what we say. And if there was an
overall theory behind what they were doing as opposed to
just coming up with plays and picking them off a
(05:34):
du it was not conveyed to the people executing it,
and that's the way they liked it. This group, everything
is an ecosystem and everything is based off I know
your rules. I'm going to try to exploit them this way.
I'm anticipating your counter move. We have an answer if
you do that. It's not infallible, but that's the mentality,
(05:55):
and everything is open to being questioned, and creative solutions can.
Speaker 4 (06:00):
Come up on the fly.
Speaker 3 (06:01):
But their rule with each other is you have to
be able to tell me the why. You have to
be able to explain to me why you want this
play in the game plan, what is the larger purpose
of it in the context of everything that we do
and that we are. And then you also need to
be able to explain that to the players, not just
if they asked, but hey, receivers, we tell you to
(06:25):
go seven and a half steps with your shoulder pointed
this way and then turn. Every single time you run
this route and hear this call, this is why we're
doing that. We're setting them up for this or it
makes this other thing work. And so they have found
that that's kind of a cooler way to operate. And
I think you know shorthand version of that is these
(06:46):
scientists are overtaking the meatheads, and these guys are at
the forefront.
Speaker 2 (06:52):
Yeah, and look, and I think you kind of brought
up there to me, what makes this group different? You know,
so many times throughout the NFL Lea've seen them, Mike,
it's all sickle, right. Defense starts doing one thing, offense reacts,
they do another and the defense reacts to that, they
do another. In a lot of ways, this McVeigh system
wasn't a response to the great Pete Carroll Cover three
systems in Seattle. Everyone thought of running cover three. This
(07:13):
system figured out a way to beat that sort of stuff.
But I think what impresses me the most about this group,
and I think we've seen it with McVeigh in terms
of how he's changed his run game. We've seen Kyle
Shanahan that since he's changed quarterbacks with Party, he's altered
his offense a little bit. These guys are not static
in their system.
Speaker 3 (07:28):
You know.
Speaker 2 (07:28):
It used to be with his dad, Mike, all the
outside zone stuff, right, McVeigh doesn't even run outside zone anymore.
Their ability and willingness to adjust their philosophy I think
sets them apart from some other coaches in the past
that had a single way of doing things and that's
what they were going to do, come hell or high water.
Speaker 3 (07:46):
Yeah, And it aligns with this era as rookie quarterbacks
are thrown in right away, So that RG three example
is a classic example. He had only run things out
of the pistol at Baylor, and obviously they were going
to have to play him, and he was a transcendent talent.
And so instead of saying r G three, we're going
to make you learn our offense. And you know, they
were like, hey, how do we keep the essence of
(08:09):
our offense but you know, adjust it so that he
can run it. And it was very hard endeavor that
involved a lot of you know, backwards thinking, and we
get into that in terms of the number says you
go this way, but now we have to actually have
the other side of the line blocked this way because
his own read they figured all that out and the
(08:32):
rest of the league really didn't. So you're right, it's
you know, the first thing is we're not just going
to force a player to you know, run it the
way we've always run it. For the sake of you know,
our system. We will make our system pliable. But yeah,
it is you know, it is ever evolving. And you know,
(08:54):
you mentioned McVeigh, Kyle Shanahan.
Speaker 4 (08:59):
You know, this is a group that.
Speaker 3 (09:03):
Is constantly evolving visa VI each other. There's actually, oh
you mentioned the cover three's it's there's a great sequence
in this book where Kyle Shanahan goes to Atlanta after
washing out in both Washington and Cleveland didn't wash out,
but forced his way out after a dysfunctional year with
(09:24):
Johnny Manziel and all that, and gets to Atlanta with
dan Quinn, and so he's practicing against that dan Quinn
Pete Carroll Seattle three defense you know, every day, and
Kyle figures out their rules and figures out how to
break the rules. And there's an example of a game
in Seattle where the Falcons make them follow their rules
(09:48):
and get a tight end running wide open down the
middle of the field, and Richard Sherman and the other
guys on the seatk defense are screaming at each other
and screaming at their coaches because the system doesn't allow
them to cover that route, and Kyle has figured it out.
So then when Kyle gets the forty nine er job,
he ends up hiring Robert Sala. He's comfortable with that
(10:10):
Seattle three scheme, another guy who comes from that, and
he wants to run that scheme. And you know, there's
a quote in the book where another coach says, the
forty Nares keep getting burned in those early solid years,
and Kyle doesn't even understand that they're just copying his stuff.
He's broken the system. Everybody else has now figured it
out because of Kyle, and now it's coming back to
(10:33):
bite him and he hasn't even made the connection yet
that he's burning himself. So yeah, totally cyclical. You know
they were gonna adapt it to Trey Lance. That's a
whole debacle that we cover.
Speaker 4 (10:46):
But you know, how do you.
Speaker 3 (10:47):
Survive using three ones to take someone three overall and
having him not be a good NFL player?
Speaker 4 (10:57):
Usually you don't.
Speaker 3 (10:58):
Everyone's fired, the organization set back, unless with the two
hundred and sixty second and last pick the next year,
you end up taking a guy Brock Party, who can
can be your franchise quarterback.
Speaker 2 (11:11):
It's amazing, Mike, and I always like to make this point,
how much in the NFL people like to dismiss luck,
and how much luck has to do with everything. You know,
people are like, oh, the Niners were such geniuses for
finding Brock Party, and I'm like, you do, as he
had a seventh round pick before Party. If they thought
he was going to be that good, something tells you
they would have used the first seventh round pick on him.
And that, yeah, my last one.
Speaker 3 (11:32):
Right and one of the delicious surprises of this book,
and I have it all documented. Is you know, I
go way back with Mike Shanahan, and I was spending
a lot of time with him in that twenty twenty
two offseason, and of course I was asking him a
lot about Trey Lance and Jimmy Garoppolo because he still watches,
you know, all the practice tape and everything. And he
(11:53):
kept mentioning Brock Party because Mike had seen now Ota
tapes and bitty camp tapes and this.
Speaker 4 (12:01):
Draft or this you know, last pick of the draft.
Speaker 3 (12:03):
This guy was popping out to Mike Shanahan and he
kept speaking of Rock Party, and so you know, I
kind of had my eye on Party because of that
in training camp. And then there's a scene in the
book where they're getting ready to play the Bears in
the season opener. It's Trey Lance's first game as the
actual starter in his second year, and Mike Shanahan has
(12:25):
me go to his room in the JW. Marriott in
downtown Chicago and we're talking about the game the next day,
and I'm asking him about Trey Lance, and again he
brings up Purty and he says, when you have a
guy like that in your building. You don't let him out,
and I'm like, wait, we're talking about brock Purdy, right
like kind of you know, I get chills thinking about
(12:48):
it now. So you're right, you know, as brilliant as
Kyle is, and you know, you really see a portrait
of that in this book.
Speaker 4 (12:56):
I think Mike was a little earlier on.
Speaker 3 (12:58):
Purty than Kyle, because if Kyle had understood it to
that level. You're right, he doesn't go to sixty two.
They don't play around. They got him a lot higher.
And of course they just paid him like a guy
who you would have taken third overall.
Speaker 2 (13:11):
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Speaker 4 (13:24):
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Speaker 2 (13:25):
If you're lined up here, you gotta go over the
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How do we make that happen?
Speaker 2 (13:31):
I don't know, but Citizens does makes sense of your money.
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well deserving. By the way, he's an excellent quarterback you
mentioned Raheem Morris. He's kind of the sore thumb in
this because he's a defensive guy. How does he fit
into this whole like offensive guru group and how does
that work well.
Speaker 3 (13:52):
Raheem Morris is the one who's quote provided the chapter
title to one of my favorite chapters, which is enemy Friends,
which is the way he describes Sean McVay and Kyle
Shanah had. He's very close friends with both. They're they're
not like that with each other. They a lot of
respect and a lot of history. But Raheem would be
a common denominator. But it's interesting you mentioned that because
(14:14):
he was a young coach in Tampa, very young, had
some early success following John Grudin, and then was fired
after three seasons, and it took him a long time
to get that second opportunity, and he did establish himself
as a great defensive coordinator.
Speaker 4 (14:29):
But one of the things that happens in the book.
Speaker 3 (14:32):
Is that Kyle, after his first year in Atlanta, is
looking for a receivers coach to replace Terry Rubisky, and
dan Quinn has asked Rahim, hey, can you vet some
candidates for me? And Raheem at one point says to Quinn,
you know, these guys, A couple of these guys are
really good. But Kyle doesn't necessarily need a classic receivers coach.
(14:55):
He knows the position so well. He just needs a
guy who understands him and what he wants and how
he communicates and could communicate it to the players.
Speaker 4 (15:03):
And you know, Dan kind of goes huh.
Speaker 3 (15:06):
And then Raheem's at a mall a few hours later
and Dan calls him and goes.
Speaker 4 (15:11):
What about you? And Raheem's like, huh.
Speaker 3 (15:15):
And eventually Kyle decides to receivers coach and switches him
over to offense, and so Raheem ends up getting a
bunch fuller understanding of the other side of the ball.
And it was illuminating to all these guys because Matt
Lafleur told me, now, I always want a defensive guy
with my offensive coaches and vice versa, at least as
(15:38):
a consultant. And we saw that with Robert Saul last
season after he got fired by the Jets. But you know,
they like the you know, reverse perceive, and you know
it obviously makes people a well rounded coach. Mike Shanahan
advised Kyle when he was a quality control coach in
Tampa starting out on that Gruden staff, which is how
(15:58):
he and Rahee Morris bonded so much. But he advised Kyle,
he goes, Hey, when you're done with your work, sitting
on the defensive meetings, it's Monnie Kiffin, it's Joe Barry,
it's Rahie Morris, it's Mike Tomlin. It's an incredible staff,
and you're going to learn so much. And that really
helped give Kyle a sense of the defensive side of
the ball. There are other examples in here, like Bobby
(16:18):
Slowick on that Washington staff as a defensive coach. They
end up moving him over to offense at San Francisco
and then he goes on to become the Texans offensive
coordinator in that CJ. Stroud rookie season. So but yeah,
raheem to me is an incredible character. He's really really
open about his development and maturity. He's very funny. It
(16:42):
gives you a really good portrait of him. And then
of course Mike McDaniel. I mean, I just hate sharing
him with the world now, you know, when he's miked
up and doing his thing. But I started taking Mike McDaniel.
I think as far back as twenty eighteen. I've known
him a long time, and you know, it was fun
when no one knew who he was was because he's
(17:02):
he's always been that out there and that funny and
that brilliant, and his story is so unlikely from the start,
you know, in terms of ending up as an NFL
head coach, And it really kind of fits in with
the whole rivalry aspect and how badly did Kyle Shanahead
want to keep Mike McDaniel.
Speaker 4 (17:23):
In San Francisco and not let him leave.
Speaker 3 (17:26):
Well, there's even a story of Mike McDaniel getting ready
for his first and only head coaching interview.
Speaker 4 (17:34):
I guess he ended up having another one with the Dolphins.
Speaker 3 (17:36):
But as league rules mandated during the twenty one playoffs
by zoom, and you know, he's got a Niners are
in the playoffs. He's got to time it up to
practice and all that. And mysteriously, the Niners practice schedule
keeps changing like three separate times, I think, and he
(17:56):
has to keep calling the Dolphins back and mess it
up to schedule, and uh, you know, in Mike's view,
that's Kyle just trying to you know, make it harder
and the Dolphins it kind of backfire because the Dolphins'
decision makers were like, he must really want to keep
this guy, like he must be pretty good.
Speaker 2 (18:15):
Two more on the book, and this goes back to
the point you kind of just made. These guys are
all friends, but their rivals too, right. They all came
under that Jay Gruden staff that you mentioned in Washington,
the Mike shanahead staff. Yeah, right, exactly, and then then
and then a lot of them were with Jay Groot
took over for Mike.
Speaker 3 (18:31):
Right.
Speaker 4 (18:31):
Eventually Ivey was the one who stayed with Jay Grutin yea.
Speaker 2 (18:34):
Yeah, got it. And they compete with each other, so
they love each other, but at the same time, they
want to beat each other and they want to one
up each other with scheme and x's and o's. How
does that rivalry kind of take place and open up
because I'm sure in some ways they compare notes, but
they also don't want to give each other too much
because they want to look like the better coach.
Speaker 3 (18:52):
Right, I mean, Shanahan and McVay are in the same division,
got hired at the same time, so there's no semblance
of co operation. I think they're pretty open about the rivalry.
They know each one knows the other one's good. They're
very different. McVeigh is much more tethered to the leadership
and the you know, communication with the players and the
(19:15):
vibe and scheme is almost secondary, whereas with Kyle it's
very very scheme oriented and he's gotten a lot better
in terms of the relating to players and the communication.
But you know, each one thinks his way is pair
about and Mike McDaniel says in the book, each one
almost has to believe that existentially, because you know, to
(19:38):
believe otherwise we'd go against everything they are. But great
juxtaposition there. You know, Lafleur and Kyle, who were very close,
got very crossed up during the time when it looked
like Aaron Rodgers was going to leave the Packers. You know,
in twenty twenty one, in that offseason, Kyle made a call.
(20:00):
Lafleur kind of thought that his friend was taking advantage
of a situation and possibly inside information because of their
friendship and trying to you know, deprive him of his MVP, and.
Speaker 4 (20:11):
It got pretty bad. It's all detailed in here.
Speaker 3 (20:14):
You know, it's better now, you know, McDaniel really respects
Kyle and owes him a lot and knows it, but
also felt like he was under Kyle's thumb in, you know,
in an unhealthy way for a long time.
Speaker 4 (20:27):
So there's there's a little bit of spice there.
Speaker 3 (20:30):
Uh. And then you know there are other various intersections,
and you know, you add into Kevin O'Connell's and Demiko
Ryan's and Robert Salla Brandon Staley, there's a lot going
on in this ecosystem at all times. But yeah, certainly
a ton of respect and they all love Mike Shanahan.
They all love Mike Shanahan, and they all love Rahim
(20:53):
everyone else.
Speaker 4 (20:54):
It's kind of fair.
Speaker 2 (20:55):
Game final question. And you kind of brought this up
in your last answer. You know, the success rate for
coaches off of this tree have has been very very high,
especially for the guys on the offensive side. And I
maybe it shouldn't surprise you, but Mike, you made the point.
X's and o's is a big part of this. But
as you well know, covering this league, as long as
(21:15):
you have the personality and connecting to your team and
that sort of stuff of being a head coach is
maybe more important. You can be the greatest tactician. If
you can't connect with your players and gets them to
believe in what you're doing, is not going to matter.
Why do you think, Michael, The guys from this tree
have all been able to figure out maybe their own
way of doing things that maybe a little bit different
from each other, but all of seemed to work in
(21:37):
terms of them connecting with their players.
Speaker 4 (21:40):
Yeah, and you know, hackets from this group.
Speaker 3 (21:42):
So it's not an infallible uh you know, sample size,
but yeah, you're right, it's been pretty good. And you know,
wallsh really started with Walls, who you know, kind of
begat Mike shad aheaded directly and you know Andy Reid
and like Home Gridd so so many others, but Bill
wallsh his tree and it was a big, big deal,
whereas the Belichick Parcels side has been more like hands off.
(22:05):
My coaches they all suck, don't touch them. And you know,
I just think for one thing, you know, it does
go back to what I said earlier. They take a
lot of pride in being able to explain why they're
asking their players to do certain things and then show
why it'll work. And so there are different ways to
communicate and create that culture. And with McVeigh sometimes it
(22:28):
sounds like a Ted talk and all that, whereas with
Kyle it's much more using video like look this dude,
you know this dB is gonna get caught right here.
We're gonna make his head spin. He's not gonna know
you know what the bleep just happened. And you know
you're gonna take it to the house. And you know,
it gets people fired up because of what he's showing them,
(22:50):
you know his plan is. But yeah, I think part
of it is just being you know, valuing, the valuing,
the need to explain to players why what we're asking
is important and why it's gonna work if you do
it the way we asked you to.
Speaker 4 (23:07):
You know, that goes a long way.
Speaker 3 (23:08):
And then of course we juxtapose everything with the you know,
parcels and now Belichick tree, and there have been instances
of high profile failures, you know, from the Belichick side
in recent years that we can all point to spectacularly.
Speaker 2 (23:24):
Right, We wouldn't know any thing about that over here, Michael, Yeah, right.
Speaker 3 (23:27):
And and you know, and you know, and and Dave
Ball to me is really interesting because you know, he's
from that tree. And he definitely has plenty of those tendencies.
But I do think he has tried really hard not to,
you know, be a Bill clone.
Speaker 4 (23:42):
And you know, the people from.
Speaker 3 (23:45):
There who've succeeded, and I would count Bill O'Brien as
someone who succeeded if you look back and what he
did in Houston with you know, with lesser quarterbacks than
Deshaun Watson most of the time. But the ones who've
succeeded have seemed to recognize like, yeah, Bill did a
lot of great things, but trying to be him isn't
(24:07):
the formula.
Speaker 4 (24:08):
And you know, I.
Speaker 3 (24:08):
Always, you know, I laugh at the you know, in
Siano's kind of adjacent. But what Josh McDaniels did the
first time in Denver, Matt Patricia, Joe Judge, as you know,
it's like it's almost like they coached as though, Hey,
if I just act like a jerk like Bill did,
I'll win.
Speaker 2 (24:27):
And I you know, Bill.
Speaker 4 (24:28):
Didn't win because he acted like a jerk.
Speaker 3 (24:30):
He won because he's one of the greatest coaches of
all time, and he had Tom Brady, not necessarily in
that order. So if you can coach like Bill and
get a Tom Brady act however you want.
Speaker 4 (24:41):
It's gonna be fine.
Speaker 3 (24:43):
But merely acting like him is not gonna unlock anything.
And it doesn't really you know, endear you to your
players early on, and that can hurt you if it's
not happening. And let's be honest, you know, it didn't
go great for Bill post Brady when he didn't have
you know, success and the infrastructure to get away with that.
(25:05):
And of course that's back when Bill preached so many
things that.
Speaker 4 (25:09):
On paper he may be you know, violating.
Speaker 3 (25:13):
The spirit of I don't get into all that, but
it is you know a lot of people have remarked,
you know, about how Bill's culture now is at odds
with what he preached for so long. But you know,
I do think Davis has a chance. I mean, that
first year was really striking. I don't know how they
did that.
Speaker 2 (25:32):
Either might be yeah, and I'm.
Speaker 3 (25:34):
Not sure, and I'm not sure they knew from talking
to them. I mean, they knew it could go okay,
but like they were, you know, they were way ahead
of schedule, as you know, and then you know, you
know the rest.
Speaker 4 (25:45):
But you know, I'm.
Speaker 3 (25:47):
Excited to see, you know, what Brian might be able
to pull off this year. It's going to be really tough.
It's a brutal division. And you know you've either got
you know, you've either got a veteran quarterback trying to
recapture his former glories, or you know, you throw in
(26:07):
a rookie under duress. But you know it's it's going
to be really interesting. And I will say this about
day Ball, and so in this book we talk about
the specific, often offensive side of the ball schematic brilliance
of this group, and I'll stand by that, but there
have been some other, you know, great coaching things that
(26:27):
happened that we don't get into it this book, you know,
from Sean Payton to Andy Reid and so many others.
But I cite day Ball a lot in that. You know,
everyone's always told me you can't coach accuracy. You either
have it or you don't. And you know, I saw
that with Trey Lance very vividly. And yet we have
an example, the only one that I've ever heard of,
(26:48):
and Noah, of a guy who was a fifty five
percent passer, Josh Allen, who got coached up to the seventies.
And it's you know, I still marvel at it and
so because Brian day Ball as coordinator in Buffalo was
part of that and probably a big part of that.
You know, it had it got a lot of people's attention,
(27:10):
and I would still say, you know, it's hard to
write him off as a strategist, you know, in the
wake of that. And so you know, look, Anthony Richardson,
I think is forty four point nine percent something ghastly.
I think even before I saw his shoulder thing, you know,
I thought Daniel Jones would beat him out almost certainly,
(27:33):
you know, because he just hasn't been able to find
accuracy and Trey Lance just has not been able to
find accuracy. And you know, may never start another game
in the NFL. But if you're looking for a path
forward ever, figure out what Brian Daball did in Buffalo
with Josh Allen, because it was unbelievable. If you want
(27:53):
to know how to manage two minutes of crunch time football,
I'm your man.
Speaker 2 (27:56):
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Speaker 2 (28:00):
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Speaker 4 (28:02):
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Speaker 2 (28:04):
Could help make sense of your money with citizens all right.
By the way, the book again, the Why is Everything?
A story of football rivalry and revolution. Michael will hold
it up there we go. All right, So you mentioned
it's a really tough division Michael for the Giants this year. Look,
their defense is a lot of players on it. We
don't know about the quarterback. What has to happen here?
Do you think for the Giants to make some noise
(28:25):
in this division? And what do you think this division
is going to look like when we get to the
end of the year here, besides the fact that the
Eagles are probably one thing going to be on top
of it.
Speaker 3 (28:32):
I mean, the Eagles look like a monster. They did
lose some guys, but you know, I have a feeling
the Eagles will at least be one of the better
teams in the league during the regular season. That seems
like a fair bet. You know, Dallas is interesting. They've
got some energy with Brian Schottenham. I'm gonna be writing
about him for the Athletic coming up very soon and
spend some time with him out in Frisco, I guess
(28:56):
or yeahs it? And you know there is a vibe there,
you know, on paper. Not sure if they've got the
juice to make a run at the Eagles, but they're
into it.
Speaker 4 (29:10):
At least they think something's going on.
Speaker 3 (29:12):
And then obviously Washington, you know you've got the young
quarterback who you know, I thought C J. Stroud the
year before was kind of transcended. And then I'm like, way,
I think Jayden Daniel's rookie year was even more striking.
Speaker 4 (29:25):
You know, they Dan Quinn, another.
Speaker 3 (29:28):
Guy who is you know, very familiar with this crew,
just a really positive guy who establishes a great culture.
So you know, they look like a team that could
be right in that mix. So I think, you know,
the Giants are gonna have to win close games. They're
going to have to you know, they've got those three
guys on the edge. You may get them all on
the field at times, you may have a rotation at times,
(29:51):
but you know they're gonna have to make some plays
on defense fueled by you know, a furious pass rush,
which you know I see a have to and then yeah,
just you know, figure out a way to be efficient
offensively and be really timely, you know, ideally get the
(30:12):
running game going a little bit. I shouldn't even mention that.
I just Giants fans don't want to hear me talking
about the running game and the Eagles.
Speaker 4 (30:19):
It's just it's too soon, man.
Speaker 3 (30:20):
I mean, like, what's a Giants fan doing on Super Sunday,
Like you know, stabbing their.
Speaker 4 (30:27):
Hand with a you know ork and like.
Speaker 3 (30:32):
Calling up like hard knocks clips and you know, throwing
their iPad like a frisbee. And yeah, you know it's
not a good subject. But listen, you know every season
is different. The hardest thing for me and I've been
doing this, now what this will be your thirty six?
Speaker 4 (30:50):
I guess you know.
Speaker 3 (30:52):
I can look at teams on paper, I can look
at who they have, I can look at who the
coaches are. But chemistry and football is really hard to quantify.
It not like other sports. You're asking yourself and people
around you to do insane things. You know, let your
arm bend back two hundred and seventy degrees to make
a play, and.
Speaker 4 (31:12):
You know, stuff that is not rational.
Speaker 3 (31:14):
And so if you feel, if there's a feeling there,
whether it's your coaches or the people around you, or
some larger vibe and purpose, sometimes that can propel teams
a long way. And it's really really hard to quantify
and to know and so I'll try to go to
some trading camps and vibe it out the best I can.
But the cool thing about, you know, pro football, is
(31:37):
that really is year to year and you really don't know.
Speaker 2 (31:40):
All right. Two more for Michael Silber before we say goodbye.
We appreciate the time today, and again go check out
his book. He had a lot of great stories in there.
There's even more if you go read the book. It
really is good. I always like to ask Michael, the AFC,
we kind of know what the good teams are going
to be. Just look who the quarterbacks are and what
teams are on and those teams are probably gonna be good.
Speaker 4 (31:55):
Right.
Speaker 2 (31:56):
NFC's a little bit more wide open. You don't have
that same level of quarterback playing the end. Are there
any teams in the NFC that you think are either
going to be a lot better than maybe some people
think and others that maybe had been good but you
think might take a step back?
Speaker 4 (32:09):
Great question.
Speaker 3 (32:10):
And look, if I mean statistically over at least twenty
five years, maybe longer, there's a fifty percent turnover in
the playoffs. And I agree with you on the AFC,
it seems more predictable now but history tells us there's
gonna be a lot of shuffling, and part of that
is the draft, all the communist stuff.
Speaker 4 (32:31):
You can see my shirt making fun of.
Speaker 3 (32:33):
Cal and representing that, representing the hammer and the sickle.
Speaker 2 (32:37):
But you're in San Francisco, it makes sense.
Speaker 4 (32:40):
Yeah, I mean I went to Cal. What a good due.
Speaker 3 (32:42):
But yeah, I I you know, I did write a
column when I was at Yahoo during the lockout in
twenty eleven talking about how the NFL has a lot
of communist properties, and it's a long conversation that I
would stand by that, but yeah, that whole worst Shelby
first thing, and so so the first thing I would
say is I was with an NFL offensive coordinator drinking
(33:06):
beers the other night and he asked me how I
thought the forty nine ers were going to do, and
he was skeptical about their chances, and I said, have
you seen their schedule? And he kind of rolled his
eyes like, dude, you don't, which is true. You don't
know really who's going to be good. It's hard to
just look at a schedule. So I go, okay, well,
I'm just going to read all seventeen in order, and
(33:28):
I read it to him and he was like his
mouth was dropping, and he's like, they could go eleven
to six playing bad according to that schedule, you know.
Speaker 2 (33:38):
So yeah, it's the exact opposite of the Giant schedule
when they're playing like every single playoff team in good
quarterback from last year.
Speaker 3 (33:45):
Yeah, and we don't know, you know, you know, we
don't know if a game it gets the Titans or
the Saints, is going to be a walkover like it.
Speaker 4 (33:54):
Seems but could be.
Speaker 3 (33:57):
Yeah, so let's look, let's look at the NFC. I
do think the Falcons have some potential to pop. Part
of it's by faith and Raheem Morris and just you know,
they were you know, Pendick showed me, you know, remember
that fourth down pass to extend that game against Washington
with the playoffs on the line that night game. He
had two of them, but one of them he just
(34:17):
threaded in there. I was like, oh, whoa, I see
it with him, so, you know, whereas with McCarthy, I
haven't seen it.
Speaker 4 (34:24):
So I'm a little bit more skeptical about the Vikings.
Speaker 3 (34:27):
So yeah, I do think the Falcons could be a
team that is surprising. And you know, I hate myself
for saying this, but maybe the Cowboys, you know, I
just I'm going to try to honor the vibe there
and I could be totally mistaken, you know. And then
you look at the AFC and you're like, yeah, is
there going to be someone who kind of pops out,
(34:51):
you know.
Speaker 4 (34:51):
And gives you some because you know, Denver kind.
Speaker 3 (34:55):
Of did that last year, Cleveland did it the year before.
You know, there's some there's some usual suspects. I'm really though,
intrigued by these Steelers for sure, now especially I want
to see exactly how that plays out, and hopefully they
are right there in that mix just to make it
(35:15):
more fun.
Speaker 2 (35:16):
Yeah, I think that will be fun. All right, Michael,
final question for you. You've been doing this a long time.
I've been covering. I've been with the Giants since two
thousand and seven. Nice and we've seen NFL teams develop
young quarterbacks in a million different ways, and there's no
one way that all right, this is the only way
to do it. This always works. We've seen it work
where guys sit. We've seen a guy work where guys
(35:38):
get thrown in right away. The Giants are going to
go through this issue with Jackson dark, When is he
going to be ready? When do you get him in there?
How do you think, based on all your experience talking
to all these offensive coaches and stuff, what's the best
way to handle these young quarterbacks? Or is it really
so individualized to the player there's no way to talk
about it in general.
Speaker 3 (35:57):
I mean, I come from an earlier era where almost
everyone struggled as a rookie when they did play, and
a lot of guys waited and it had good results.
And I could certainly point to some examples even to
this era where waiting was better. Mahomes got basically the
first year. I mean, looking back, it's like really, but
still it seemed to help. You know, Rogers obviously got
(36:19):
the three years, and then Jordan Love, although I wouldn't
the notion that it's like far Rogers Jordans.
Speaker 2 (36:28):
I mean, well there yet he's not there yet.
Speaker 4 (36:30):
No, no, no, he's not closed.
Speaker 3 (36:31):
But you know he's doing okay, And so I do
think ideally you don't want to throw him in. And
you know, Marino was an anomaly, but look, you know
Matt Ryan was an anomaly.
Speaker 4 (36:44):
Kind of Flago was pretty good, Stroud was really good.
And now Daniels was really good.
Speaker 3 (36:49):
So I don't want to be you know that guy completely,
but I think ideally, you know, you are playing Russell
Wilson and you have Jamis too, So if that ends
up being if it ends up being Wilson, Jamis Dart
in my opinion, you know, try to see what you
(37:09):
have with your vets, because James has done a lot
of really cool things.
Speaker 4 (37:12):
Too, you know.
Speaker 3 (37:14):
The only thing, the only caveat is you know players know,
so if you are if you're in a situation where
just one guy in practice, it just it just looks
way way different over time and you're losing. I think
it's hard to tell the players, hey, we're gonna stick
with you know, the vet and at all costs. You
(37:39):
do have more credibility when it's Russell. He's a super
Bowl winner, you know, very very decorated player, almost one
second super Bowl, you know. And so I what I
don't like is when you say we're gonna stick with
the veteran no matter what, and then it's like he
has one bad game or you lose a couple and
you freak out and just put the rookie in.
Speaker 4 (38:00):
I don't think that serves anybody.
Speaker 3 (38:02):
Well, I think you try to stick with the veteran,
but you know, sometimes I mean, look, here's the all
time example. Anthony Lynn, who I thought did a really
good job as the Chargers head coach, had Toarrod Taylor,
who is as you know, respected as a guy for
his preparation and intelligence and the way he does things.
Speaker 2 (38:23):
Yeah, we had a mirror. He was great.
Speaker 4 (38:24):
We love him, Yeah, everyone loves him.
Speaker 3 (38:26):
And he's he's either the best backup in the league
or you know, a lower level starter.
Speaker 4 (38:31):
But he's like, Torod Taylor is a legit guy.
Speaker 3 (38:33):
And they drafted Justin Herbert, and Anthony Lynn was like,
I'm gonna let Justin develop, and I'm going to have
Torod Taylor, you know, be the starter no matter what.
So they're getting ready to play a game and he's
got Toronto's a rib injury and the Charger team doctor
tries to give him a pain culling injection and punctures
his long I think something something bad happens, really bad,
(38:57):
and thankfully Trod Taylor is rushed to the hospital but
doesn't have any long term damage. You know, that's the
most important thing. But meanwhile, Justin Herbert, with ninety seconds
of notice. Literally is told you're starting today against the Chiefs,
by the way, and you know whoa and he gets
thrown into the kid plays really really well.
Speaker 4 (39:17):
They almost win, and the next.
Speaker 3 (39:20):
Week he plays well and Anthony Lynn keeps going okay, yeah,
but to Rod's by starter, and not only is he
trying to stick to his plan what he thinks is right,
I mean, it's not a great look if the team
doctor shoots the guy punctures his lung with a pain
color ejection and then he loses his job for good.
I mean like I'm like, please, don't let this guy
(39:41):
lose his job. But you know, after enough games of
this with Justin Herbert, Anthony's finally like, okay, I'm starting Justin,
you know, and it is what it is, So that
would be you know, if Jackson Dart looks as good
right away as Justin Herbert, then it's a different conversation,
by the way, as good as Russell Wilson as a rookie.
But yeah, I hope for the Giant's sake that you know,
(40:06):
it's Russell, And then I hope if they need a
stopgap or a fill in for injury or for some reason,
a longer term solution during the season. I hope they
would give Jamis a fair look because you know, he's
pretty good, and I.
Speaker 2 (40:22):
Think they would. All Right, Michael, anything else about the
book you want the people to know, or anything else
you're up to that you're doing that you want the
people to know about. The floor is all yours?
Speaker 4 (40:29):
The why is everything?
Speaker 3 (40:30):
A story of football rivalry and revolution, available everywhere.
Speaker 4 (40:34):
I think you'll love it. And yeah, no, I'm gonna write.
Speaker 3 (40:37):
A couple more pieces for the athletic I'm going to
try to hide out a little bit, and then I'm
going to hit the cap circuit hard. Maybe I'll be
hanging out with you and Matty Burke on the sidelines,
you know. Check it out the quarterback follies. We'll have
to see how the schedule shakes out. Were you at
the London game in O seven, your first year?
Speaker 2 (40:58):
I was at the London game in all seven. Yeah,
the the the great Cleo Lemon, Eli Manning duel with
Eli Manning with the with the scramble for the touchdown. Baby.
Speaker 3 (41:06):
Never thought I was seeing a Super Bowl champion, you know,
in progress. But uh yeah, that was an ugly game, man,
that was that was game.
Speaker 4 (41:16):
It was.
Speaker 3 (41:17):
That was the first game in London at them and
I have not been back and I really hope a
guy end that streak this year for the Athletic working
on it.
Speaker 4 (41:25):
But uh, that was just such a cool you know.
Speaker 3 (41:28):
I spent the whole week out there and uh, yeah,
that was really really cool. So all right, well, thank
you for having me and yeah, The Why Is Everything
available everywhere from.
Speaker 2 (41:39):
The Athletic Michael Silver, Mike, we appreciate the time. Thanks
so much.
Speaker 4 (41:41):
Thanks a lot.
Speaker 2 (41:43):
That's Mike Silver from the Athletic. Make sure you go
check out his new book, The Why Is Everything? A
story of football, rivalry and revolution. Great stuff from Mike.
Thank you for being with us in the Giants Little
podcast brought to you by Citizens Official Bank of the Giants.
Coming to you from our podcast studio, presented by Hackensack
and Mariney Health. Keep getting better for my Silver, I'm
John Schmolke. We'll see you next time.
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