Giants Huddle | Steve Palazzolo

On this episode of the Giants Huddle podcast, John Schmeelk is joined by Steve Palazzolo, host of the 33rd Team podcast, to discuss the fallout of the 2025 NFL Combine and the NFL Draft.

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Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:00):
It's time to get inside the Giants. Let's go, Let's go.
Let's go Giants. Don COI I lock get out of
my giants, mobul give me some join part of the
Giants podcast network. Let's row. Welcome to another edition of
the Giants Little Podcast, brought to you by Citizens, the
official bank of the Giants. John Schmelt back with you.
We welcome in Steve Palozolo with the thirty third Team. Steve,
it was fun catching up with you with the Combine man.

(00:21):
Hope all is well.

Speaker 2 (00:23):
Yeah, thanks John, Always always great catching up with you
and all the other friends, my Twitter friends and everybody
at the Combine. Always a fun week, all right.

Speaker 1 (00:31):
So the folks that maybe haven't followed you closely since
you left PFF, tell them where you can find you
and all your content.

Speaker 2 (00:37):
Yeah. My podcast partner Sam Monson and I we left
PFF in August, join thirty third Team and started our
own podcast called Check the Mic. So that's anywhere you
find find your podcasts, any of the audio streams, and
then on YouTube where we're continuing to grow there. So
Check the Mic podcast basically the same thing we were
doing for the last ten years over at PFF just
under a new name, all right.

Speaker 1 (00:58):
So we see a lot of football stuff at the
combine workouts, We listen to a lot of future NFL
players talk at the Combine, But maybe the most fun
is talking to people around the league and kind of
get a feel for what they're thinking, what's going on.
What was your main takeaway walking out of Indianapolis. Maybe
something that you know now that you didn't know before
you got there.

Speaker 2 (01:16):
Yeah, I mean, I think we talked to a lot
of people that love Travis Hunter as a wide receiver,
and you know, don't they don't hate him as a corner.
But the number of people that and maybe a questionable
wide receiver class might have him as the top wide
receiver in this class. I think that's interesting for the
Hunter evaluation, where I think most of us said, hey,
he's a corner first, and it's easier to play full

(01:37):
time corner and then play twenty to twenty five snaps
of receiver. But especially the way some of the needs are,
you know, at the top of the draft and the
teams that might draft the Travis Hunter, he might play
more receiver than corner early on. You know, again, he
wants to do both but I thought that was interesting.
And then the same buzz that everyone else is hearing
about the Giants, and in some of this I think

(01:58):
is just you know, the right they're they're probably the
most QB desperate team. We know that they were close
on Matthew Stafford, so that they're the most likely team
to trade up for cam Ward. I think I kind
of assumed that going in and that was, you know, confirmed.
I think throughout the week that there's a potential move
there from number three.

Speaker 1 (02:15):
All right, two follow ups. One for the people that
say Hunter wide receiver more than corner, what was their
plan for using him as a part time corner because
I don't think we've ever seen a guy be a
part time corner before.

Speaker 2 (02:27):
Yeah. I don't even know if it was so much
they had a specific plan on how they would use him.
It was more like when I put up or you
know them saying when they put up Travis Hunter next
to tedoroand McMillan, Matthew Golden, Luther Burden that they just
like Travis Hunter better. And again my podcast partner Sam
Monson said, watching him, his takeaway was that he looked gassed, right,

(02:48):
not surprising guys playing one hundred and forty snaps. I thought,
he looks right, and he looks tired, and it's like, man,
he's one hundred percent, you know, feeling pretty good at
receiver with those ball skills, the route running, the movement skills.
Maybe that's his best role. So I mean the other
thing is I think all the creativity that you have
with him as a player, not only playing both ways,

(03:08):
but adding flexibility to your depth chart. You know, maybe
he's receiver to one year, but the next year he's
receiver three and he's a full time corner. Maybe it
depends on what you already have on your team. Maybe
if he's not a great receiver he converts to full
time corner after two or three years. I mean, there's
so many of those what ifs here because he is
so talented in the fact that he can legitimately play

(03:30):
two NFL positions. We haven't seen much like that, So
it adds a lot of flexibility, I think to his projection.

Speaker 1 (03:35):
Yeah, I love the idea where he fels had one
you can put him at the others. He almost get
like two bites of an apple with one player, which
to me is nice. What was your feel for what
you're thinking Tennessee might do at number one. Talking to people,
I'm convinced the Browns if they can, we'll pick a quarterback.
But what do you think the Titans are going to do?
And how do you think they're approaching this at number one?

Speaker 2 (03:54):
I think they're still torn on it. I mean I
think they're I think they have the same exact look.
It's funny when like reports come out and everything, because
teams have to have literally every conversation. So if the
report is, hey, team's considering this or that, yes, it's true,
they should consider everything. And so you know they're sitting
there saying cam Ward probably the clear top wide to
see AQB. They only have one pick, you know, one

(04:17):
pick in the thirties and then not again until one
oh one or one oh two, right, So you know
that's going through their minds. They're picturing the hall that
they can get, say from the Giants, to move from
three to one, and before you know what, they have
five picks in the top one hundred that they have
a future one and I know they want to think
long term. So they're having those debates, and I feel
that they're still having those debates. I know you know
Chad Brinker who's got a Packers background and wants to

(04:41):
as he said, draft thirty times over a three year
period as just a as like a rough goal, right,
And they're not in position to do that. So he's
got a chance to really reset the future here for
the Titans. But you also, how many how many times
do you get to, you know, pick your quarterback the
top quarterback in the draft class. So I don't have
a sa I don't have a sense for where they're leaning,

(05:01):
but I have a sense that they're having the same
debates that we all are, you know, as far as
what they should do.

Speaker 1 (05:06):
Yeah, I'm with you. I thought of someone that covered
the Titans and they said that whole generation, you know,
can't pass on generational talent. Quote was maybe taken a
little bit out of context, and it's more to your point.
Try to make as many picks as you can in
the top one hundred every year and try to get
as many bites as you can. And I think it's interesting, Steve,
because you're right, I don't think the Titans know what
they're doing, which means they're not going to move that
pick before free agency starts next week. So the Giants

(05:28):
have to go into free agency now probably approaching it like,
we don't know if we're going to be able to
get a quarterback with our first round pick. They might
all be gone. I have to shore goes two, cam
wore goes one. You might have no one left to
pick at three, which means you don't want to start
a second or third round quarterback in year one. That's
not going to go well for anybody. So what do

(05:49):
you think their approach should be now with Stafford off
the board, with the veteran quarterback market in free agency
next week.

Speaker 2 (05:55):
Man, I hate these difficult questions, John, I hate these things.
This is this is why I can't be an NFL GM,
because if you're stuck without a quarterback, it is it
is challenging times. I'll be interest year to.

Speaker 1 (06:07):
Be in this predicament. By the way, this is not
a year to be a new quarterback.

Speaker 2 (06:11):
It is. And you know, by the way I've been
workshop workshopping a take that you can't really judge a
general manager by his quarterback decisions. That I would actually
look at everything else because I think the quarterback thing
it's it's a lot of process, procedure and luck and
the the impact that it has is just uneven with
the you know, level of decision that you're making. But

(06:31):
that's a whole different story. So don't envy the position
that the Giants are in right now. But I think
they have to They have to look at the veterans,
They have to look at that. I mean, part of
this is I like to make my decisions for the
long term betterment of the team. And that's where things
get tricky, right because if you're Joe Shane and you're

(06:52):
Brian Daboll, you're heading into year four and can you
do that? Right? Can you can? You can you literally
say say, hey, we might not solve this this year,
because that's the reality is they might not be able
to solve this this year. Right there's a scenario where
they don't get one of the top two quarterbacks. As
you mentioned, there's a scenario where they have to pay

(07:12):
Sam Donald forty million dollars a year and that's your
best option, and any option besides that is a bridge quarterback,
and you just you just kind of hope that maybe
the bridge quarterback is as good as Sam Donald was
as a bridge or you or you play this game
of let's you know, trade for a Joe Milton because
he looked so good and you see if you can
get trade a third round pick for him. I mean

(07:32):
that's those are the options, right, Those are the types
of things that you're looking at. Right, you bring in
a second or third round quarterback, you trade for a
backup that you think might have some upside. That's not appealing,
it's not great, it's not exciting, right, So in free agency,
I think you have to kick the tires on all
the veterans. But like Russell Wilson and Aaron Rodgers aren't

(07:53):
solving anything long term and just putting a band aid
on it just so you're competitive in the fourth year
of your regime doesn't feel like a great long term
strategy for the Giants. So from a long term perspective,
I wouldn't want to do that. But if you're Joe
Shane and you're just trying to show signs of life,
Aaron Rodgers coming and playing under at Brian Dable, maybe
is appealing and maybe you can actually, you know, win

(08:15):
nine or ten games and start to show an upward trajectory.

Speaker 3 (08:18):
If you want to know how to manage two minutes
of crunch time football I'm your man. But if you're
wondering about a long term financial plan, you should talk
to citizens.

Speaker 2 (08:25):
Hey, I can also talk long care.

Speaker 3 (08:27):
I'd like to learn about an Mollia routine. Yes, I
knew I could help make sense of your money with citizens.

Speaker 1 (08:33):
And by the way, that shouldn't affect what you do
in the draft, right, you should still attack that quarterback, yeah,
as much as you can in the draft. And I'll
say this too, like I don't just think it's a
Dable and Joe Shane thing. Like the Giants almost became
the first team in the NFL history to go oh
to nine at home last year, and every one of
those losses just tears John Marris's guts out, Like I
see him walking out of that box, and he hates
losing and watching them lose. And I don't know if

(08:55):
you looked at the Giants home schedule this year, Steve,
but it is a tinder box like the worst, Like
they play the same team on the NFC West with
the same record based on the schedule setup. Well, this
year that's the San Francisco forty nine ers. So that
was supposed to be like the easy game that they
had coming in to met life. So it's really tough.
They have the Chargers, they have the Vikings, they have
the three teams in the division, they have the chiefs

(09:16):
of the Packers. It's bad. So I think it's it's
not just the timeline of the regime. I do think
there's some of ownership just like yo, like we just
can't keep winning three or four games a year. At
some point you have to try to win a couple here.

Speaker 2 (09:32):
Yeah, and honestly, and that's and that's the challenge for Shane, right.
I mean you could say, hey, I mean I've heard
conflicting reports on the what people think the impact is
for last year's draft class, but I thought there was
signs of life for last year's class. Obviously with Malik
Neighbors and Tyrone Tracy. I think Theo Johnson's going to
be all right, you know, Tyler Nuban, you know starting
So I mean you could say, hey, look are a

(09:55):
lot of the good veterans gone from a few years ago. Yes,
but we could say, hey, there's a there's an influ
of youth over the last couple of years. Things are
pointed in the right direction. You're not seeing it on
the field yet. We got to figure out quarterback. It
does feel like a reset. But again it's if you
look at the roster now versus three years ago, is
it better? I don't know, right, So that's it is.

(10:16):
It's a challenging spot because look, I thought they should
have rebuilt a few years ago and not tried to
know it essentially pushed this day back right that when
they made the playoffs in twenty two, you know, didn't
reset heading into twenty three and you know, having some
honest conversations about where the roster was, and they're overachieving
in twenty twenty two. I think it's set the rebuild

(10:36):
back right. And if you look at like if last
year was the first year of Shane and Dabole and
the first year that they had struggled from an ownership perspective,
you could stomach a longer term plan. And it's like
you just you are where you are. You have to
stomach a longer term plan because oh, by the way,
the Eagles are really good, Washington's on the way up,

(10:57):
Dallas is still still has a really good nuclear. Like,
you can't turn this around in a season. It's challenging
to turn it around in a season unless you do
what Washington did. Unless you unless you get the right
guy and he's that good, maybe you can, but it's
challenging you. You have to to me, you almost have
to think about twenty twenty six, and it's just the

(11:17):
timeline's just not great given all the moving pieces over
the last couple of years.

Speaker 1 (11:21):
Yeah, all on all, and I guess we can wrap
up this part of the conversation like this. Having Brian
dabele Koscha hell out of that team three years ago
and catching some lucking close games all in all, that
really was like one of the worst things that could
have happened in terms of building long term. And Joshan
even said as press commerce, look we won those games.
You know, you don't just want to throw everything away
after you know your organization wins their first playoff games

(11:43):
in twenty eleven and you try to build off of
that a little bit. And he even said, look, we
made some mistakes coming off that year. So it's funny.
Sometimes winning off schedule actually hurts your timeline a little
bit because it makes you make decisions maybe you wouldn't
otherwise make.

Speaker 2 (12:00):
That's that's it. I always say, I think the toughest
conversations organizations have to have is just honesty in the offseason,
right Either, you know, if you're you could be a
four win team that actually has a really good nucleus,
and maybe it sounds like you're just overly positive and
say no, no, no, keep you know, stay the course.
Even though we won four stay the course. Right the
Lions a couple of years ago, I mean, Dan Campbell

(12:21):
had one of the worst winning percentages of all time.
Where look, I heard this from someone in the league
this week where it was like, hey, if ownership was
impatient with Dan Campbell a year and a half into it,
we never would see how good the Lions could be
here potentially, and they stood the course, they saw the process,
and obviously the rest is history. The Lions are one
of the best teams in the league. You know. Conversely,

(12:43):
you have an eleven win season with all the all
the close games and everything, can you honestly say, wow,
we're really a six win team. We were really a
six win team. We should treat the offseason as such
and rebuild it is. It is a challenge for teams,
I think to have those honest conversations.

Speaker 1 (12:58):
Yeah, and especially you know with the fan base with ownership,
season ticket holders. They just went through this great year
and then all right, we're gonna get rid of the quarterback,
the running back and just rebuild from scratch it. It's very,
very very difficult. Giants on the podcast brought to you
by Citizens, the official bank of the Giants. From game
day celebrations to your everyday financial needs, Big Blue fans
can get the most out of every moment with Citizens.
Learn more at citizens bank dot com slash Giants A right. See,

(13:20):
we kind of touched on free agency, so I do
on'ly hit that first and then we'll hit your combine takeaways.
I love getting your take on the prospect. They're always
very unique, and I think you take it from an
interesting perspective. But free agency, this is not a great class.
We're recording this on Tuesday afternoon. We just saw Osa
Dickey Zua sign a long term deal with the Cowboys.
Trey Smith's getting a franchise, Te Higgins is gonna a franchise.
Looks like Sam Darnold's going to be out there in

(13:41):
some way, shape or form. Saquon Barkley just signed a
massive extension with the Eagles. You know, and I think
people like, oh, they bought Saquon on the cheap. You know,
a great job by Howie using the market. Now, I
wonder if maybe has it flipped the other way and
see now raised the market too high with another two
years on that deal. So I'm curious to see how
that all works out.

Speaker 2 (14:00):
The Saquon raise. I mean that reminds me of Christian McCaffrey.
I mean, the Niners just kind of like, all right,
we're just gonna pay a lot more money. Uh, with
no competition. They just paid McCaffrey and then he got
hurt the next year. I'm not saying that's gonna happen,
but yeah, the Eagles rewarded Saquon, and look, I think
you've you've got that extra cachet with the Super Bowl,

(14:20):
and you know, I don't think the Eagles make that
move a year a year ago. But they they're in
a unique spot where they just won and they understand
the I think what Saquon brings to the table for them.
I'd like to go on record and say the Giants
didn't do the right they did the right thing. Let
in Saquon walk, right. I mean that's they did the
right things.

Speaker 1 (14:40):
Can be true at the same time, by the way, yeah, of.

Speaker 2 (14:43):
Course they are. I mean he averaged three like they're
as much as people want to say, oh, elite running
backs matter, they matter, they mat and you're hearing more
and more of this. It's like, yeah, he was averaging
three point nine yards per carry the year that the
Giants let him walk into free agency. It was the
right move. All of a sudden, he's averaging two more
yards per carry with the Eagles. What changed. Saquon was

(15:05):
always a dynamic runner where if you gave him a
little bit of a crease he could take to the house. Well,
the Eagles gave him creases. And that's not to take
anything away from him, but yeah, he was the cherry
on top of a really good foundation of an offense.
And we know that the Giants haven't had that foundation
this entire time. Even Daniel Jones, if you really want
to be a Daniel Jones apologist and say which year

(15:25):
did they have a really good offensive line? I don't
think he really got that true opportunity with the line
and with pass catchers. So the situation was much better
for Saquon. But yeah, free agency wise, it isn't a
great class. Donald will be a big domino to fall.
We'll see. I think there's a lot of teams around
the league that have the chance to do what I
was saying the Giants could do, which is the reset. Now.

(15:48):
The Giants they're in a different part of their lifespan
with their front office. But the Jets with a new regime,
the Raiders with their new regime, do they go and
decide to get their quarterback and say, yeah, it's Sam
Donald and then we'll draft and build around him. Are
they willing to punt on this season? You know he
can't do that officially, but you got to air quote it.
So we'll see what happens. Because there's a lot of
teams I think have a great chance Titans too, to

(16:10):
just reset and look to twenty twenty six or beyond.
But we always know there'll be some team that you know,
opens up the check book here in free agency.

Speaker 1 (16:19):
Yeah, talking to the Raiders people and people that cover them,
there doesn't seem to be any indication that they're willing
to take a long term view and be patient here
with like a seventy five year old head coach. So
I imagine they're going to be pretty aggressive it's funny with
the saque thing to just look at his average yards
per carry before contact with the Eagles and then look
at it with the Giants, and that kind of explains
the whole deal to be told us honestly. Yeah, all right,

(16:40):
list of list some of these positions. Weird wide receiver class.
You get a bunch of like twenty nine to thirty
one or thirty two year olds, which is dangerous territory
for wide receivers, especially when a lot of them are
coming off of injuries, which makes it doubly dangerous. How
do you think this wide receiver class is going to
plaid in fre agency? Giants could be looking for a
two across from neighbors.

Speaker 2 (16:59):
Yeah, this, this is the problem with free agency. Sam
Monson on our show keeps highlighting Darius Slayton as his
you know, one of his favorite sleepers in this draft,
right in this free agent class, because if he's like
the three, if he's just your deep threat, he's he's
pretty good, and so the Giants are losing him right
so potentially, So it's a challenging class because if you
told me Amari Cooper, Stefon Diggs, DeAndre Hopkins a year ago,

(17:23):
just a year ago, I'd say, yeah, absolutely the way
and DeVante Adams, and look, I think Adams can still play.
But again, if you told me a year ago, DeAndre
Hopkins on a contender, absolutely go get him. Stefon Diggs
with the Texans, I thought it was a great move
to add him in to Jean Allen. Forgot about him
Keenan Allen last year. But like all of these guys

(17:46):
a year ago were very appealing, and a year later,
it's like, did Amari Cooper really make an impact with
the Bills, Did DeAndre Hopkins really make an impact with
the Chiefs? Stefon Diggs got hurt. So it's a challenging class.
And to your point, like when the receivers get up
to a certain age boom in a year, all of
a sudden, they go from really appealing to not to appealing.

(18:06):
And I think Chris Godwin is the other is the
interesting name for a lot of teams. He would fit
the Giants, I think, in particular with what Malik Neighbors
brings to the table. Godwin as a possession receiver, but
he's coming off a bad injury, and his second bad
injury in like four years. Here so if you knew
you were getting a healthy Chris Godwin, I think he's
a nice complimentary too, But this feels still like a

(18:29):
draft and developed position, especially away the college college footballs
really sent a lot of receivers to the league over
the last few years.

Speaker 1 (18:36):
I actually like the cornerback class, Steve. I think it's
pretty good, you know, for zone and man corners. I
think there are some players here. The Giants are in
desperate need of a corner and I think they're still
young at that position as is. They could use a
veteran and this is not a great corner class in
the draft anyway. Who are some of the corners in
this class that you like? Again, some of these guys too,
who are going to get into the twenty nine to
thirty year old range, which which gets dangerous, But a

(18:58):
lot of them I've had some really good years too.
So who are some of the corners that you think
could get some good production per doll or good bang
for the buck when you look at this class.

Speaker 2 (19:06):
So I'm absolutely with you. As far as the court,
there's a lot of starting caliber corners out there. The
actual free agent class before you add Darius Slay and
even James Bradberry getting released. Slay I think can still play.
I think he'll be picky and you know, try to
find a contender. Rumors that he wants to go back
to Detroit perhaps to finish his career. I like that,
but yeah, but the actual free agents. DJ Reid can

(19:27):
play with the Jets. He was a nice He was
a nice pick up for them a couple of years ago.
Opposite Sauce Gardner at Travarius Ward, I think is one
of the better pressman corners in the NFL. I think again,
he's going to be picky about where he wants to go.
Rasseull Douglas I thought was, you know, rejuvenated with Buffalo
over the last year and a half and more of
a zone type corner for him. Byron Murphy could play

(19:48):
inside outside, has that flexibility. Carlton Davis the third, I
think he's still pretty good again coming off of injury.
But he did a nice job for the Lions. Traded
a third for him just to get the one year
of service. Santa Samuel here is the other really interesting one.

Speaker 1 (20:01):
I like him.

Speaker 2 (20:02):
Yeah, I mean you keep mentioning in the twenty nine
to thirty one year olds like they're all ancient, right,
but in football terms, they are a little bit older,
but very rarely. What's the Sante twenty six twenty six? Yep,
Every now and again you get those second round picks,
solid career for four years and they just hit free
agency and they're in the their mid twenties and they
need to.

Speaker 1 (20:21):
Cut off an injury too, which might the price a
little bit.

Speaker 2 (20:24):
Yeah, and I like I like Samuel again, ballhawk type,
you know, off coverage zone type of player. So yeah,
I think there's plenty of starting corners available. And then
when you add a Darius Slay to the mix, where
all these other positions have a lot of scarcity that
you're dealing with, I think there's a plethora of corners.
So even slow play in the market, not overpaying for
the top guys, I think there are starters to be

(20:46):
had there. Yeah.

Speaker 1 (20:47):
I think slow playing wide receivers who are seeing which
one of those veterans are left with at a job.
And like, you know, maybe the beginning of April was
not a bad way to go too. Guards the spot.
The Giants need to starting right guard. Well, they need
other things too, but they need to starting right guard.
Don't love the group. You know when people have will
freeze at the top of your group. When we played
like three games last year and it was a breakout
a year in like three or four games, that scares

(21:08):
the hell out of me. I'm not gonna lie. Tevin Jenkins,
I think is a good player, but he is trouble
staying healthy. Your thoughts on this guard class overall, especially
now that we know Trey Smith's not going to be there.

Speaker 2 (21:18):
Tevin Jenkins is the guy I like the most, but
I am I wish I had a die hard fan,
enough of a die hard fan that followed me over
the last ten years that did like a montage of
all the times I suggested to get injured players and
how well it worked out, because I imagine it's not great
every year during free agency. Oh I love this guy,
but the injury, Yeah, I just if you forget about

(21:38):
the injury concerns, And I know teams don't forget about
injury concerns. Right, we have more injury data, or at
least they do internally more than ever. They could do
a better job of projecting injuries. But those guys are
always tempting for me, right when it comes to free agency,
I think about, you know, diversifying your portfolio. Not everybody
can be safe. Sometimes you chase a higher upside type
of player. And it's weird to say that a guyard

(22:00):
has high upside, but I would say that's where Tevin
Jenkins and is. He's got more of a track record
than Will Freeze. I think he's got a comparable track record.
Maybe do a Trey Smith who's got the franchise tag
from the Kansas City Chief. So I like Jenkins, Kevin
Zeitler is every year you have one of those types
of hey, here's the one year guy. And again, the
Giants are in a different spot maybe from some other

(22:23):
contenders where they're gonna, you know, the last piece of
their offensive line puzzle, much like the Lions had last year,
would be a Kevin Zeitler to bring in. So I
don't know that he's necessarily a fit. Makai Beckton scares
me a little bit because of the injuries that he's
had right one year at guard, but that was pretty
solid for Philadelphia. James Daniels I think is interesting. You
know he was he got into the league real young,

(22:45):
so he still has I think a little bit of time.
If you give him a three year deal, two or
three year deal. So again, starters available as far as
the Giants go still need to creep back toward average
or just above average. Right. I think they're still they're
moving in the right direction on the old line. But
second wave of free agency is usually a good place
to get starters.

Speaker 1 (23:04):
How about the tackle on edge. You know, this is
a really good draft class in those two spots, and
you know there's not a ton of stars at those spots.
Milton Williams would be one of the highest paid guys.
I'm sure, Josh, what's going to get paid to you know,
klue Max a little bit older. I think the Chargers,
I in my understanding is that they're going to try
to figure out way to bring him back. But I
wonder if teams are going to be a little hesitant
to spend big upfront on defense given what this draft
class looks like.

Speaker 2 (23:24):
Yeah, I think I think a couple teams will spend
at the top, like you're saying. I think some of
the sleeper types that I like that played well at
least two years ago. You saw Malcolm Kons for the
Raiders play pretty well. He beat out Tyree Wilson, who
was the first round pick that year to be the
guy opposite Max Crosby, so Coons I think is pretty
good off the edge. Maybe not necessarily a need for

(23:45):
the Giants, but if they're thinking long term figure out
what happens with Thibodeau, not bad to have. Obviously you
could roll three and four deep at edge. You need
to do that anyway. Levion Zerique from the Lions is
one of my favorites, especially when you look at the
weakness that the Giants have next to Dexter Lawrence. I
think he would fit extremely well. He dealt with some
injuries for a few years. I'd had he's coming off

(24:06):
his best year. If you can get five hundred to
seven hundred snaps of him next to Dexter Lawrence, I
think he would be a great pickup. And again, I
don't think he's going to be a twenty million dollar
a year player, probably more in the you know ten range.
We'll see what happens with the cap here. I think
Anzerrique would be extremely good value, especially for the Giants
needs all.

Speaker 1 (24:25):
Right, just anywhere else around this free agent class where
you think you have a couple guys you love or
you think could be of particular value for teams that
are shopping maybe in that second or third wave of
free agency.

Speaker 2 (24:35):
Drew Dallman at center. You know, again, I don't know
what happened. If it's too early to give up on
a John Michael Schmidt at center, but I don't know
if the scheme fits always been great, but Dolman looks
like one of the top centers in this draft. I
like him as a player. I mentioned some of the
other guards and defensive tackles that I like. Zach Bond
as all of a sudden, you know, a coveted free agent.

(24:56):
It does sound like he's going to hit the market,
and I'm always buyered b for one year wonders and breakouts,
But I thought he's always a talented player, just finally
got his opportunity. And then again, it depends on the team.
But Kalais Campbell, if he wants to come back and play,
he does want to play for a contender. He's at
that point in his career where if you could bring
him in for one year on the cheap like other

(25:16):
teams have, you get an extremely good value with Kalais Campbell.
So every year I feel like you have those veteran
free agents that I really like that might only be
a one year stop gap, but if all your other
pieces are filled, and that's just Hey, the last couple
Kalais Campbell and of course the great Morgan Moses my favorite,
the right tackle that if any team has a right
tackle need, that guy is a top ten right tackle

(25:40):
in the league, maybe top eight, top five and usually
pretty durable and should be available.

Speaker 1 (25:44):
All right, let's jump to the draft here, Steve, let's
go on the defensive front. I love the way you
look at prospects is a little bit different, and you've
had a lot of really nice hits over the years
talking about him. Who are some of the defensive linemen
and edge players and a really really good class. We're
good at the workouts, they're good on tape, they're good
at the Senior Bowl that you think maybe teams a
little too low on or maybe a little too high on.

Speaker 2 (26:07):
It's a fascinating class because everybody that I think everybody
has a yeah but in their profile, right, I love
this guy, Yeah, but this or that coming up, Like
I think James Pierce Junior from Tennessee has a great profile.
Off field stuff was being rumored quite a bit and
discussed quite a bit of the combine for him. Same
thing with Mike Green, the edge rusher from Marshall. I

(26:28):
think production profile and what those guys can do off
the edge is outstanding. Abdul Carter of course sitting at
the top, but he's got one year playing on the edge.
I think that's probably a positive for him because of
the way he grew last year converting from linebacker to
the edge. So I like him still as a blue
chip prospect. He's got the foot question, but that shouldn't
be anything long term. So I think there's some really

(26:50):
good talented players who are productive. Then you have guys
like the Michigan guys. Jalen Walker, mikeel Williams. Michael Williams
played through injury last year Soon Long looked like he
was hobbled last year, said he was playing at only
sixty percent. You could kind of feel that, So there's
a bit of a projection there. Jalen Walker never seen
anybody that's really as inexperienced as he is because he

(27:12):
played legit half linebacker and half edge at Georgia, and
I think most would call him like a true three
to four outside backer old school style, but he hasn't
rushed the passer. A Ton has a ton of potential though.
And then Jamar Stewart, I think, is that classic workout
warrior who doesn't have the production. He's not awful on tape,
he's good against the run, and you know, just not
a great pass rusher yet. But somebody's going to buy

(27:34):
into those traits, I think in the top fifteen. So
I think there's plenty of talent in this draft. But
like I said, they all come up and come back
with some sort of either off field or production question
or position flexibility question that works either four against them.
I think once you try to sort them out.

Speaker 1 (27:50):
Yeah, I think this group of Day two edge players
are interesting in how teams stored them. You got the
Donovan Azaraku's, you got the prince Lyumanmialen. I think he's
interesting who I thought it was great at the Senior Bowl.
Olofemi Ola Dajo, he was really good down there. You
could even throw in, you know, some of the other
smaller guys, Kyle Canard, he had a really good college career.

(28:11):
I think they'll be kind of a Nick Scourdon, depending
on if you think he's a Day one or take
Day two guy Josiah Stewart out of Michigan, like just
day two guys, and I think it's going to be
tough to parse them. I think maybe it's scheme dependent.
You want a bigger guy, a smaller guy. I think
there's a nice group there too.

Speaker 2 (28:25):
Really nice group. And I'm a Josiah Stewart fan. And
that's the thing. Like everybody that I'm a fan of
on film, it's like, oh, he's too small and he's
he's missing arm.

Speaker 1 (28:35):
Plays the run though Stuart uff his nails against the run.
Man who oh, I know.

Speaker 2 (28:39):
And it's also it's interesting when you look at Ed
Rusher's and historic hit rates, it's usually one of those
positions like offensive line or offensive tackle. We have to
you have to get them in the first. Hit rates
in the first are so much better than on Day two.
But I think in this class, because of the depth,
there will be good value there even despite some of
the historical hit rates. I like Ashton Galotti from uh

(28:59):
Lou as well kind of a tweeter. Yeah he is,
but that's that's what I mean. I like guy I like,
but you know, I don't know I like him. I
like Josiah Stewart. Jared Ivy is an absolute monster for
ole Miss And when you watch that entire defensive line
with Walter Nolan, with Uman Mialen who you mentioned, who

(29:19):
I think has some great defensive pass pass rush specialist ability,
remind me a little bit of Brian Burns where I
don't want him playing the run too much, but just
let him get after the quarterback. So yeah, I'm with you, man,
I think there's a lot of Day two and my
big thing this year if you need defensive linemen, great
year to double up first round, second round, or if
you have three picks in the top seventy five, great

(29:41):
way to come away with at least two on the
defensive line in this draft.

Speaker 1 (29:45):
So who are some of the Day two defensive tackles
you like? Because the Giants, if they skip that in
free agency, they user resources elsewhere and to looking for
someone to put next to Deck's long term. Who are
some of those kind of three tech types that you'd
like in that spot.

Speaker 2 (29:57):
Yeah, Darius Alexander from Toledo. I think he's still a date,
but he's getting some Round one hype. You know, we'll
see what happens with that. Like Brydon Fisk almost went
in the first round last year, and I think most
people weren't expecting to get that high. TJ. Sanders is interesting,
different style. He's a more undersized penetrator. I mean, it is,
which flavor do you like? You've got Alfred Collins from

(30:18):
Texas who's three hundred and thirty pounds. He's bigger and taller.
I don't think he's a hold the point guy, but
I think he could penetrate and be really disruptive. I
know there was an injury concern with Omar Norman Lott,
the defensive tackle out of Tennessee. If he's healthy, though,
I think he's a potential steal as long as the
knee injury isn't long term. So another group, I think

(30:38):
Day two is fantastic as far as defensive tackles go,
and a lot of the depth in this class.

Speaker 1 (30:44):
Yeah. On the other hand, and this is why I
mentioned maybe attacking this in free agency, I do not
love the Day two defensive back class in this In
this group, Steve, I have trouble finding guys that I
really like. A couple of them are just slot only
guys with the giants don't need be's they got Drew Phillips,
who's done a nice job in that spot. Any outside
corners on day two that you think could make something
in themselves here.

Speaker 2 (31:04):
Yeah, so I think, see, this is where I would
disagree a little bit. I think there are some good options,
and so part of that is because I think there's
guys like Shabone Revel, Benjamin Morrison. I know Will Johnson's
going to go in the first round, but Morrison and
Revel in particular, we're talked about going in the top fifteen,
and then they got hurt and now consensus board has
them on day two in the thirties. You know, if that.

Speaker 1 (31:26):
Point, if those if your medical staff clears those guys,
they could be good second round players. I'm with you.

Speaker 2 (31:30):
So I think, yeah, so I think some of those
guys could fall. I've been a Trey Amos fan out
of Ole Miss. I've been a fan of his since
he was back at like what Louisiana he went like Louisiana, Alabama,
ole Miss, and I think he could play a little bit.
Darien Porter just had the freak combine, but he's twenty
four years old, so you know, some what ifs there,
But size and movement skills are outstanding, and then I

(31:51):
think it tapers off a little bit because I get
what you're saying, like once you get into Denzel Burke
territory with Ohio State, he got torched in the first
game against Oregon and was supposed to be a fringe
first rounder and didn't really have that season. So I
think there was a chunk of guys maybe in the
round two, maybe they fall into a round three range
that are solid, and then I think there is a
bit of a drop off there at corner.

Speaker 1 (32:11):
Now I'm with the end night. If you got some
of those guys dropping down to the top round two,
I'm with you. I think you could get some value there.

Speaker 3 (32:17):
Get in here, if you're lined up here, you gotta
go over the middle with at the score great.

Speaker 2 (32:22):
How do we make that happen? I don't know, but
citizen does.

Speaker 3 (32:27):
It makes sense of your money with citizens Official Bank
of Eli Manning.

Speaker 1 (32:32):
Dude, this is the best running back class I've ever seen.
I've been I followed the draft closely, probably for eight
to ten years, and my goodness, like everyone ran a
four to four. Not that I think the top speed
is super important for running backs, but you just watch
the tape. There are so many good players that can
fit different roles. You got guys of every flavor, size,
bel cows, third down backs, bruisers. There's something for everyone
in this running back class. It's so much fun. Who

(32:54):
are some of your favorites?

Speaker 2 (32:55):
Yeah, there really is. I mean I think there's gonna
be a run in round two, right, so we're it is.
I think a lot of people love this draft. You know,
picks fifteen through seventy five, so I think we'll see
a running back run. Obviously, Action Genty's fantastic at the top.
I got to go back on a Marion Hampton from
un see he's getting all the buzz as like the
next first rounder. I didn't love his vision, but I
think as a zone runner it could be good, and

(33:17):
he's got the big playability. I was surprised with how
good Trevon Henderson was from Ohio State, or just to
how I felt he was. I thought he was more
just big play, take it to the house guy. But
I was impressed with just how well he just stayed
on schedule, stayed on schedule, and then broke it when
he needed to. I think he's just a really good
effective runner, could have a really nice career. I think
beyond that, I am a Cam Skataboo fan. I know

(33:39):
he didn't run almost out of forty inch vertical. He
feels like a four to six, four to seven guy.
I don't care. The dude breaks tackles, gets it done,
catches the ball out of the backfield, did it at
a small school, carried Arizona State this year. So I
think Skataboo's going to be an absolute steal. And then
even just today I was rewatching Jayden Blue out of Texas,
who i'd you know, ran sub four four and I think,

(34:02):
you know, stylistically he's not going to be in every
down back, but I love him catching the ball out
of the backfield, wheel routes, Texas route option routes. I
think he adds a lot just as a pass catcher.
So you're right. The depth is here at the running
back position, and a whole bunch of different types and styles.
I think for it for every single scheme.

Speaker 1 (34:19):
I was just this, NFL don't let Jim Harbaugh draft
like Cam scatter bowing like round three?

Speaker 2 (34:23):
Please? Oh man, could you imagine he would be.

Speaker 1 (34:26):
That foor guy the ball thirty times a game. He's
gonna be He.

Speaker 2 (34:28):
Would love him. He would love him so much. Scat
of him, get.

Speaker 1 (34:31):
Him, Oh my god, he would absolutely love it. And
then you know, guys, the Iowa kid didn't test great,
but he's big and you know, and if you look,
I was looking at this today, if you wanted every
down back, they kind of have to be two hundred
twenty pounds. You know, there are some exceptions. Karen Williams
is a little bit. You know, he's two five, but
he's only five to nine, so that kind of makes
up for the lack of size a little bit. So
there are enough of guys that are that fit that

(34:52):
you mentioned Hampton, Caleb Williams is in that. Caleb Johnson
from Iowa is in that.

Speaker 2 (34:58):
Johnson's good. I mean, he just he's so smooth. You know,
he's got that Arion Foster zone zone running style where
he just actually reminded me a little bit of Joe
Mixon too, where he's just another maximize maximize, you know,
break a few tackles when you need to. Johnson was
very impressive despite the what four five five forty.

Speaker 1 (35:17):
Yeah, which is fine. I mean again, I think even
like Bachelle Tuton was awesome, like and he's he's, he's
he's racked up too, like you look it up at
the podium. You know, he's only two. I think he
came into like two o seven or something like that.
He jack though, like he's he's, he's like a thick dude,
even though he's not that tall.

Speaker 2 (35:32):
Him and scatub with both guys that were fcs, guys
got the opportunity at bigger schools, came good. I think
twot and you know had five fumbles last year, but
big play threat Virginia Tech tried to get him on
the edge quite a bit. They knew what they had
in him from a big play speed perspective, so he
definitely brings that to the table.

Speaker 1 (35:48):
And then like Kyle Munning guy and Devin Neil, they're boring,
but they're good, Like they're just good. I just think
it's a it's a fun class. Any other groups really
jump out of you, Steve that that you have guys
that you're excited.

Speaker 2 (35:59):
About, you know, I think I think safety has a
little bit of depth there. You know, my Malachi Starks
and Nick emn Warri at the top are interesting players.
I don't know, I kept thinking Starks might get looked
at as a corner with just his man coverage skills.
I would consider that in the back of my head
because I don't think he plays, you know, pure safety
all that well. I know a lot of people like

(36:20):
him right maybe even outside like I'm that crazy with Starks.
I think you know his balls. I think he's just
better in man coverage than just seeing the game as
a safety. But I know some people like him At
free safety. Emon Warri is going to be fantastic. I
think Xavier Wats is a good player, just a good
solid player, maybe can cover some tight ends right place
at the right time, type of guy. Andrew mccooba for

(36:42):
Texas I think is really good. You know, played well
at Clemson and a Texas in his career. So I
think safety has got a little bit of depth. It's
an interesting year where I think, you know, depths all
the positions. We talked about deep defensive line, deep running
back class, but it's weaker in the spots where last
year there was tackle there were there were there were qbs, receivers.
It's just a different year where the strength has pivoted

(37:03):
to all these different positions.

Speaker 1 (37:04):
I do think it's a year though. If you need
a guard. There's so many offensive tackles that measured with
short arms and maybe don't have the physical ability to
move on. They're gonna be a ton of guards because
there's a bunch of tackles that can't play tackle in
the NFL.

Speaker 2 (37:14):
I mean Will Campbell. For some teams, it's going to
be off the board as a tackle just because of
the arms. I think someone will try them. It depends
on where you gets drafted. Kelvin Banks, you know, there's
a lot of rumors about him going to the Bears
or the Niner, Like if the Niners take him at eleven.
I saw Niners fans saying they would love Kelvin Banks
play guard year one, kick out the left tackle the
next year. So all these guys can either play guard

(37:35):
or play guard and then move to tackle whatever it
might be. So there's every single tackle has been discussed
in the guard conversation, I think, except maybe Josh Simmons
from Ohio State, but he's coming off of injury.

Speaker 1 (37:44):
All right, final two questions. What do you think about
this quarterback class?

Speaker 2 (37:49):
I think I'm not nothing. No hot takes. Really, I
think it's what people think as well. I mean, it's
cam Ward. I think Shreder Sanders might be closer to
the next tier than we've been talking about over the
last couple of months.

Speaker 1 (38:04):
Then you said today, I think Sanders might be closer
to Dart than he is the Ward to be.

Speaker 2 (38:08):
Honest, Yeah, and that's the sense I get. I'm also
my cop out on this is like, I don't think
anybody's good at quarterback evaluations, so I don't care what
nobody don't. I don't care what anybody says. And it's
different than other positions, right, I care you know what
people say about other positions because the the success success
is measured differently, right, And so I always joke showed

(38:28):
me the guy that knew Josh Allen and Patrick Mahomes
and Lamar Jackson and Justin Herbert, you know, and Jadeen Daniels.
Show me the guy that stacked all that up, and
we'll trust him. So my opinion doesn't matter, but I'll
give it anyway. I like the I like taking shots
on that second tier. It could be Dylan Gabriel, who's
just too short but really productive. It could be Quinn Yours,
who I think was on a good trajectory before he

(38:50):
got hurt, and SCK really going to bat for him
throughout this process, talking about what he battled through last year.
Taking a shot on a Kyle McCord or Will Howard,
whatever it might be. It's not appealing. But I think
that second wave of qbs are interesting Jalen Milroe if
they could figure it out. But yeah, it's deep in
the backup developmental stage and not deep in the in

(39:11):
the starter stage.

Speaker 1 (39:12):
I think I'm leaning towards the I don't care about
age for quarterback camp, but what do you think about
Tyler Shuck who's old, Yeah on me, twenty six, but
hasn't played a ton either because he's been here all
the time.

Speaker 2 (39:22):
Age matters. Like when I was playing minor league baseball
and I was twenty four in rookie ball and blowing
dudes away, and it was like, that's good, Steve. But
you're playing against eighteen and nineteen year olds and you're
twenty four. You need to be at a higher level.
So to me, if you're looking at a quarterback from
like a data perspective and saying, how well did this
guy play, you have to you have to you know,

(39:44):
adjust for competition. If you're just saying, will this guy
get better or is he going to age? Like, none
of that matters, right, I mean, you're trying to get
ten years out of a quarterback. It doesn't matter. They're
playing into their thirties and fort thirty five plus and
they're fine. So it depends on how you're using eight.
I don't think it matters a whole lot unless you're
using statistical profiles and you have to say, Okay, this

(40:06):
dude's twenty four playing you know, in the ACC, then
it matters. But if you're trying to project him, I don't.
I don't think it's a big deal at all.

Speaker 1 (40:13):
I'm with your final question, give me some palosolo sleepers
here in this draft class, maybe guys you haven't mentioned
yet that you wonder why isn't the league higher on
these guys because I think they're really good.

Speaker 2 (40:23):
I liked Ezaraku, who you mentioned, you know, from BC.
I think you know we're talking as like a Day
two type of edge. I think he might be Day one.
I already mentioned my guy Trey Amos at corner. CJ. West,
the defensive tackle out of Indiana, had a really good workout.
I think he put himself on the map there. I
think Jack Sawyer from Ohio State is going to get

(40:44):
slept on in this class where there's you know, a
whole bunch of freaky athletes and upside types. I think
Sawyer's production is going to step up and just be
uh is going to be really good. And Jayden Higgins
is no longer a sleeper or like my guy or anything.
It's up to the point where we put him in
a first round mock to the Buffalo Bills at the
end of the first I think Jadan Higgins from Wyowa State,

(41:05):
he's he's been one of my guys throughout this entire process.
He's just going to keep rising though, so uh, he's
no longer, you know, a sleeper. Jadan Higgins A big
fan of him.

Speaker 1 (41:14):
I think it's teamate Jal and Noel's pretty good too.

Speaker 2 (41:16):
I think I love both of them. Yeah, I mean,
Noel's the guy. He reminds me the most of Lad
McConkey with the combination of speed and quicks. I'm with
you right, Like when when I watched mcakee run routes,
I was like, whoa you know, I stopped and said Wow.
And I think Nolan Noel has some of that ability
where some guys are just fast, but they can't change directions.

(41:37):
But I think both of those guys, mccaukay and Nol
can do both.

Speaker 1 (41:39):
Did you get confirmation on that, because I've asked three
different people and they've told me it's Nol and Noel.
Is it Nol?

Speaker 2 (41:45):
I just flipped back and forth between it, and it.

Speaker 1 (41:48):
Wasn't in the pronunciation guy and the combine either. I
looked that was all excited. I'm like, it's still not there.

Speaker 2 (41:53):
I rely whenever Dan's whenever the Beast comes out, I'll
go by Dan's pronunciation as the official. So I'll assume
that Dane has it.

Speaker 1 (42:01):
And I the other day, Dane was on with Robert
Mays and he called them Noel and I was going
with Noel in Indy and I switched back to Noel
because I heard Dane call him that yesday.

Speaker 2 (42:10):
If Dane said Noel, I'm going with Noel. That's where
I'm going because I have heard both along the way,
So I'll go with Noel here.

Speaker 1 (42:17):
All right, good, I'm happy I'm not the only one
that was confused. And by the way, I talked to
Eza Rock who for like probably eight minutes then at
the Senior Bowl, Like, if that dude's like a CFO
of a bank in twenty years. He is an unbelievable kid,
super smart. So I'm with you. I think he might
sneak into the first round.

Speaker 2 (42:33):
I heard that from a lot of people. Knows what
he's doing, smart kid, knows how to play football. So
big fan of him. And if he's a Day two
type of guy, I think that's a steal in the
second round.

Speaker 1 (42:43):
Tell the folks where they can find everything you're doing
and anything they should keep an eye on coming up
with you and Sam.

Speaker 2 (42:48):
Yeah, our show is called Check the Mic, So if
you're on YouTube or wherever you listen to your podcast,
search Check the Mic. M I c all under the
thirty thirteam and we're just we're in full off season.
My favorite helping team builds for every team free agency draft.
We're talking all about it on Check the Mic. Yeah.

Speaker 1 (43:04):
Sadly for the Giants, this has been the fun part
of this years, the last two or three years and
try to figure things out. That's the Giants Little Podcast.
Thank you to Steve Palozolo. It's all brought to you
by citizens, official banking, the giants. We'll see you next time. Everybody,