April 22, 2025 • 19 mins
On this episode of the Giants Huddle podcast, John Schmeelk sits down with Todd McShay, host of The McShay Show on The Ringer and Spotify, to discuss the Giants first round pick, who could be available on day two, and his evaluations on the quarterbacks.
:00 - Giants first round pick
9:08 - Quarterback chat
12:05 - Giants day two picks
15:32 - Ideal Giants draft class
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
It's time to get inside the Giants Hut. Let's go.
Let's go, Giants, get out on the Giants Bubbling, give
me some job. Part of the Giants podcast Network.
Speaker 2 (00:09):
Let's roll. Welcome to another edition of the Giants Shuttle Podcast,
brought to you by Citizens, the official bank of the
New York Giants. I am John Schmelk. Thank you so
much for being with us today. We're finally just about here.
We're only one day away. This is posting on the
Wednesday before the twenty twenty five NFL Draft. Thank you
so much for being with us these past two or
three months. I hope you've enjoyed the content we put
(00:30):
out there getting you ready for the draft. I know
I've enjoyed doing all these interviews, doing all these shows,
and I really think the whole group, if you've been
paying attention to listening, you know exactly what's coming around one, two, three, four,
day three, the NFL Draft. I think we're all prepared.
I had a lot of fun. Hope you've enjoyed the content.
You can go back on the Giants Huddle feed, you
can go on the Giants YouTube channel watch some of
(00:50):
those interviews. They're all still relevant. None of them are dated,
so'll make sure you check them out. And for our
final guests before the NFL Draft, though.
Speaker 1 (00:58):
We might squeeze in one more.
Speaker 3 (01:00):
That's a TBD.
Speaker 2 (01:00):
We'll see if you can get you one more special
guy to talk some quarterbacks with you. You'll have to
wait and see about that. But it's a first time
guest on the Giants Total Podcast, coming to you from
the Hackensack and Maritey Health Podcast studio. Keep getting better.
Now we welcome in our guest Todd McShay, longtime draft analyst.
We thank him for being with us and Todd, you've
kind of gone off and done your own media thing here,
(01:22):
which is pretty exciting. Tell us all about it.
Speaker 1 (01:25):
Yeah, I'm working with The Ringer and Spotify. We've got
the mcshae Show, which we're having a blast with. It's
myself and Steve Mench who played football with at Richmond
and he's been working with me behind the scenes for
twenty five years, so I love the man. We love
working together and got the mcshaye Report as well. Just
google it and subscribe all of our content, so we're
(01:46):
having fun. It's a different chapter. It's a new chapter
and honestly, I can't. I don't know that I've ever
enjoyed what I've done more than I do now.
Speaker 2 (01:54):
Algan Todd, I gotta be honest with you. I've worked
in radio, I worked in TV. You're kind of dictated
to what you have to do based on segment length
and what people are gonna want to hear. I'm sure
you got tired of talking about the quarterbacks every draft
segmenteded in on ESPN for years. Right now you can
kind of talk about what you want to talk about.
That's got to be fun for you, right.
Speaker 1 (02:12):
It's a blast. Like we do wind up doing like
full page reports on four hundred and twenty five guys
every year. And I'm not gonna you know, I've learned
a couple of things from working at ESPN, and and
I'm obviously not gonna sit here and do two hour
shows with offensive guards from small schools and like, I
get it. But I also it's fun to be able
(02:34):
to actually share that work. And you know what I found,
honestly just from like the comments and people, I think
people appreciate that they're getting a more but also be
kind of behind the scenes the process. How does this
all work? And that's been fun to share because it's
something and it's no fault of like ESPN or any
broadcast network. You know, you've got commercial breaks, you've got segments.
(02:57):
There are other you know, analysts on the show, and
you bounce it this, so you're kind of limited here.
There's there's no limits. I always said, I said, let's
try to keep it around an hour, and then we
wound up going to like an hour and forty five
minutes a show, So there we go.
Speaker 2 (03:10):
It is the nature of the beast doing that stuff.
But yeah, I mean, good luck with the venture, Todd.
We'rek site to see everything you have. I appreciate on
with the uh with with the ringer. Moving forward here,
so let's start high level with the giants here, Todd
at third overall, if you're sitting there, is it as
simple as all right, if I do a Quarters there,
we pick him. If Travis Hunter's there, we pick him.
Or does another player enter the chat for you? Assuming
(03:32):
cam Warden either Quarter or a Hunter or going one two.
Speaker 1 (03:36):
I mean it sounds simple, right, Let's just stay here
and take this great player. But obviously a lot of
due diligence goes into all of this, And at the
end of the day, the general manager, Joe Shane, he's
going to have his opinion and he's he he will
do a great job of getting the information that he
requires from every aspect of the organization. We could do
(03:56):
a whole show on what all those things are when
you come to a consensus on your board. And I'm
talking to people around the league. This isn't just for
the Giants, and I don't know exactly where they are
in their process, but the board's being set last week
and this week. And I've talked to some organizations like
he we finished our offense last week and this week
it's defense. But the board will be set by the
time we get to the weekend. Okay, But what's fascinating
(04:18):
to me and different, and the Giants are at the
epicenter of all of it. It is not normal, man.
I'm looking at at what's Today's the seventeenth of April.
The draft is one week away, the twenty fourth. I
can't remember a year in which it's not just one quarterback,
but it's quarterbacks flying too, organizations all over the country,
(04:40):
and those organizations that firing up the private jet and
going to going to get workouts at the last minute.
That's different, and so it begs the question. And I
had a conversation with actually two different conversations with people
in the league this weekend, and I was kind of
closing the book on the Giants with Shadoor. That's the
right football decision. You can't pass on one of these
blue blue chip type guys, right. But information doesn't like
(05:07):
Joe Shane's not calling. Someone said, yeah, we're you know,
we might be taking but people are in the building,
and you know, the information kind of came out. I
don't know a lot of times it's leaked, but I
was starting to get information from people in the league
who are talking to other people in the league that hey,
I don't know where they would take him. I don't
know if it's at three. I don't know if it
would be trading up. I don't know if they're hoping
(05:27):
to eat falls. But don't close the book on Shador
to the Giants. And also they're like they're doing a
lot of work on the quarterbacks late. Then all of
a sudden, chefter comes out on Monday says there's a
private workout. They're flying to Boulder. And now like reports
have come out that that it's not just Boulder for Shador,
it's for Boulder to Tuscaloosa to is it Louisville after
(05:48):
the for Tyler Shuck. Okay, so we got we got Shadoor,
Milroe and Shuck and they already had a private workout
for Jackson Dark. I'll say this, looking at the landscape, right,
I don't think Schador goes in the top ten picks.
I don't think he's going nine to New Orleans. Now.
Things have changed in New Orleans with New Orleans with
(06:09):
Derek Carr with the shoulder injury, right, so there's more
urgency there. But I also look at this like they
just hired a head coach and Kellen Moore, Who's last
three o C jobs were Dak Prescott, Justin Herbert and
and Jalen Hurts. Yeah, pretty good, pretty good, but all
but there's some similarities. They're not all the same height
(06:30):
or the same weight, they all run different forties and
have different arms, but they all are sturdy, mobile, stronger
armed quarterbacks. That's Jackson Dark. Chadoor is precision, fast processing,
ball placement, layering the ball accurately, all those things. So
I don't think Chador is going at nine. I don't
think New Orleans want to take a quarterback at nine.
(06:52):
I think you've got three teams and maybe more, but
three teams that very very like. I think it's a
high probability that the three teams Cleveland at two, Giants
at three, Saints at nine all want to take the
players they should take in those positions. Like I can't
live knowing that Abduall Carter is gonna be prowling around
the NFL and not on my defense, right, that would
(07:13):
be the mindset. Same with Travis Hunter for Cleveland. And
so now we've got them sitting at thirty three Cleveland,
thirty four for the Giants, and forty for New Orleans.
And so now all of a sudden, these organization private
planes crossing in the night, going to all these different
spots and trying to figure out that secondary market for
the quarterback with Shador and Jackson Dart and Tyler Shuck
(07:37):
and Jaln Milroe. And I don't know, maybe it's I'm
crazy and I'm too involved with this. I think it's
absolutely fascinating that this much work is going in this
late in the process for these guys, and I can't
wait for the first night of the draft when that music,
you know, the ding ding ding comes in and it's
like they have traded their pick. Whether it's Atlanta at
(07:58):
fifteen only have five pick in the entire draft, Minnesota
at twenty four only have four picks. Those are the
teams with the fewest picks in the draft, or another
team that we don't suspect at this point. At some
point we're gonna hear that that noise. Come on, GADeL
to the mic and trick the pick has been traded.
The New York Giants are now on the clock, you know.
(08:19):
So that's that to me, is the story of the
entire draft.
Speaker 2 (08:22):
Yeah, and then you have Pittsburgh sitting there at twenty one, right.
Speaker 1 (08:25):
Twenty one, And that's why I'm saying teams have to trade. Yeah,
if you want Shador, everyone, there's there's a big you know,
post it up there. If you want Shador, it's gotta
be before twenty one. That's all my intel and everyone
I talked to in the league. Tomlin likes him a lot,
but they don't have a second round pick. I don't
think they're gonna move up for him. If he falls there, wonderful,
but everyone knows if we want shador, we got to
(08:47):
get up ahead of twenty one.
Speaker 2 (08:49):
The Giants Total podcast is brought to you by Citizens,
the official bank of the New York Giants. From game
day celebrations to your everyday financial needs, Big Blue fans
can get the most out of every moment with Citizens.
Learn more at Citizens bank dot com slash Giants.
Speaker 1 (09:03):
Huddle up, get in here. If you're lined up here,
you gotta go over the middle with at the score great.
How do we make that happen? I don't know, but
Citizens does?
Speaker 2 (09:13):
It makes sense of your money with Citizens Official Bank
of ELI Manning, Yeah, I'm with you on that. So
when you look at the second group of quarterbacks, let's
say you can't move up and get your door, and
you're sitting there at thirty four, and maybe all three
of the you guys might not be there, maybe Cleveland
picks one or whatever. But if you're breaking down Milroe
versus Darton verse, shuck, how do you come down in
(09:34):
that debate for a particular second round quarterback?
Speaker 1 (09:36):
Here's the thing. We all like to rank them, right,
I mean, I make a living off of ranking guys,
and what could they be any different? Though? You know
what I mean would be any different. Yeah, I mean truly,
I just I just told you. Schador is precision, kind
of West Coast fast processing accuracy. Dart stronger, arm, more mobile,
sturdy build the thing with Dart that I loved. And
(09:59):
I I look at Brian Dable and I look at
his history, then you know he had I think he
had Jalen Hurts right, obviously he had Josh Allen, Daniel Jones. So,
and I can't express to you how much I how
much respect I have for Brian Dable in terms of
the offensive mind, developing quarterbacks and offensively. So I'm excited
(10:23):
for one of these guys to get with him and
for him to have a fresh start with a quarterback
that has legitimate upside. I was never a Daniel Jones guy,
and I don't I won't shy away from that, but
I just think he fits right. But Jackson Dart, he
comes from an offense where Lane Kiffin gave a lot
of the answers before the test. Ye, the concepts like
(10:43):
they run that sale concept to the left side Florida.
They were in it three times. The first time it's
a dropped past, second time its completion. Third time they
went to the well too often, but he still threw it.
And so the question you're asking yourself as an evaluator
and the reason why you have these meetings and you
bring him to your building, then you fly out to
down to you know, Oxford, Mississippi, is because you want
(11:04):
to study his mind. Here's here's an install here's packages.
All right, recite it to me, you know, run it back.
What did you see on this watching tape? All those
things to try to figure out is it just because
Lane gave it to him he didn't have to, or
is this something Lane had to protect. So that's the
fascinating part with Dark And then it's kind of obvious
(11:25):
with Jalen, like the processing is not there yet. He
had different coordinators three years. But this is a guy
who's got like a three six seven grade point average.
Most beloved guy I can remember, outside of maybe Will
Anderson and Tyler Booker. Their their offensive Like people just
love the human being and is patient and is the
(11:46):
kind of human being that will sit back and wait
and allow the organization to develop him and won't be
pushy and won't you know, not looking to go somewhere else.
So there's a lot of intrigue there, but that's like
a two year project. Yeah, I think Jackson Dart to
me is a one year. You're looking at twenty twenty
six with Dart, and you can play him this year,
(12:07):
you know, at some point if you need to. But
with Milroe, you're looking at twenty twenty seven before you're
probably comfortable handing him those keys to the organization.
Speaker 2 (12:15):
All right, if you don't go quarterback, then at thirty four, Todd,
I think the Giants need a defensive tackle next to
next to Lawrence, they could use a guard. This is
a good trench draft, especially on the defensive line. They
have picks at thirty four, sixty five, ninety nine to
one to five, so they got four picks really in
the meat of this draft where you can get a
lot of good players. How would you manage those groups
with guard, defensive tackle in terms of maximizing your value
(12:39):
while maybe not trying to overlook you know, tight end
and running back where it's just a really good class.
You probably want to get guys at those spots.
Speaker 1 (12:44):
Anyway, Yeah, it's interesting. I mean the guard class, you've
got two that could go in the first round. I
mentioned Booker from Alabama, he's probably he will be off
the board. I think it's very likely but not certain,
that Gray z Abel will be off the board. The
North Dakota State who's awesome during his career there and
then showed up at the Senior Bowl and did what
(13:05):
guys like Toront Armstead and mar Pett and Cody Mock
and a lot of other smaller school guys did at
the Senior Bowl. They showed like, yeah, I can do
it here too. So I think Zabel would be like
one of those gut whether it's an interior defensive lineman.
I don't know that Kenneth Grant from Michigan will fall,
but you never know. And if it's not the Chargers
(13:27):
of twenty two, and if it's not like the last
like Kansas City or or Philly, maybe he falls into
their lap. Or a Walter Nolan who's he's got a
little bit of baggage but might be the most physically
gifted defensive tackle on this class. So there will be
options there. And the nice part about this, yeah, they
could use another running back, right, but you can get
(13:47):
one in the fourth round. You can get like a
Devi and Neil from Kansas who was just fight out
awesome and quick twitch, and so there's a lot of
backs to get throughout this process. I think interior, defensive
line and edge and running back are the three deepest positions.
And the reason I bring that up is those are
areas that they could go right. But maybe a lot
(14:10):
of gms at this point in time having these conversations,
it's a lot about the combo picks, if you will, like,
all right, like, yeah, we have the same grade on
on this or let's say offensive tackle, right, just yeah,
there's like five of them. And after that, like, I
literally I can't find a guy that I would put
my name on and say I'm very c I feel
great about the fact he's going to be a good
(14:32):
starter in the league. And so yeah, I might have
a higher grade on an Ashton Jenty than I do
want a Will Campbell. But if I don't take Campbell here,
I'm not getting the tackle. And that's that's kind of it.
If I take Campbell here, the offensive tackle, I can
get Travon Henderson, I can get Quinn Shawn Judkins, you
know what I mean. Like, so, so gms are it's
(14:55):
it's about the board, right, But at the end of
the day, they have to think step ahead of if
I if I don't, and I think spy tech. The
GM for the Raiders came out and talked told sorry
about about Bury the safety, and there was a corner
Joe Hayden, I think when he was in Cleveland that
same mindset. And I'm sure that those are the scenarios
that Joe Shane and the Giants organization are kind of
(15:18):
going through now as they look beyond just when do
we take Shador? Do we take Shador? Do we take
one of these quarterbacks? Like there's a whole draft out
there beyond these first two picks.
Speaker 3 (15:29):
If you want to know how to manage two minutes
of crunch time football, I'm your man.
Speaker 1 (15:32):
But if you're wondering about a long term financial plan,
you should talk to citizens. Hey, I can also talk
long care. I'd like to learn about a mow routine. Yes,
I knew I could help make sense of your money
with citizens.
Speaker 2 (15:43):
All right, So I'm gonna end here our final question.
If you, if you were the Giants GM build the
ideal Giants draft class, what does it look like Sunday morning?
You wake up you feel great about what the Giants
did in this year's draft.
Speaker 1 (15:56):
I would if if the opportunity he's presented, I would
take Abdul Carter at three. I don't think you can
pass on him. We'll see what the future holes with Cavon,
Thibodeau and just the thought of having Thibodeau, Burns and
Carter prowling on like a third and eight, third and nine,
you know, like.
Speaker 3 (16:16):
With Dexter, who right like like we don't have to
score a ton of points now, you know, So that
would be my I just that would be not easy,
but that would be the decision I would make.
Speaker 1 (16:29):
Then it would be obviously with working in conjunction with Brian,
but I would like to think I haven't had any
conversations with him specifically about this that like a guy
like Dart and Tyler Shuck, those two guys that he
sees in them a lot of stuff he could work with.
I would then have conversations. I think Minnesota would be
(16:51):
the jumping off point kind of get back into the
first round, because I'm afraid of Cleveland moving up. I'm
afraid of New Orleans moving up. The Raiders are kind
of lurking back there. The Jets, you never know, like,
so I would I would move back in. Unfortunately, it
might require giving up one of those two third round
picks this year, but not a second next year, because
(17:12):
if you're going up for Shador, you got to do
it ahead of twenty one, and so you're in that
like eleven, twelve to nineteen twenty range, okay, And if
that's the guy you've committed to, then you're probably gonna
have to go closer to ten than you are to
twenty because because New Orleans and Cleveland are still lurking
there as well. So I would. I would hope that
(17:33):
Brian would be in lockstep, that Jackson dark Can could
do what we need him to do, and maybe we
can get away with moving up in that in the
twenties rather than the teens. We'll give away a third
this year, but we still have another third we got.
We'll still have seven overall picks, and we're not giving
away our second next year. We're not giving away our
first next year. We have our full sight a year
(17:53):
from now. That that would be how I would attack things.
If again, that's assuming someone will trade out. That's assuming
Brian is a lockstep and the ownerships. Hey, it's also
assuming ownership's not involved in this decision, and the Giants,
like many other organizations, when it comes to this high
profile of a decision with the quarterback position in that market,
(18:17):
with the guy like Shador out there, you never know
what last minute curve ball can be thrown in for
the general manager.
Speaker 2 (18:24):
Todd, I could talk draft all day with you. Do
like Shamar Turner, Vers, Darius Alexander dig deep on the return?
You like Turner? There you go, Todd awesome stuff. Guys.
Go find the McShay show on YouTube. Go subscribe to
the McShay Report. Google search it. Todd awesome stuff. Thanks
so much of the time. Let's talk again soon.
Speaker 1 (18:41):
All right, absolutely, but good luck. Have a fun draft week.
Speaker 2 (18:44):
Hey you two man, that's Todd McShay again. Make sure
you go check out the McShay show, The McShay Report
courtesy of The Ringer. You can just search for mcshae report.
You can subscribe. It gets you as draft ranking is
all that good stuff. Todd's awesome. We'll she had more
time with him, but I was very happy. We'll get
him on the show, first time we've ever had him
on the gihns Little Podcast. Try to get a couple
of first timers every year. Was happy to make Todd
(19:07):
one of those guys here in twenty twenty five, and
again we might have one more, maybe one more before
Draft nine.
Speaker 1 (19:13):
On The Johns Little Podcast.
Speaker 2 (19:14):
We'll see. I'm working on it. It would be a
fun surprise, something that's been on before. But I want
to get his insight if we can get him, so
we'll see if that works out. Guys, thanks for being
with us all Draft season long on The Johns Little
Podcast from the Hackensack Meridian Health Podcast Studio. Keep getting
better for our guest, Todd McShay. I am John Schmulk.
Thank you for joining us on this episode of The
(19:35):
Johns Little Podcast. Brought to you by Citizens, the official
bank of the New York Giants.
It's time to get inside the Giants Hut. Let's go.
Let's go, Giants, get out on the Giants Bubbling, give
me some job. Part of the Giants podcast Network.
Speaker 2 (00:09):
Let's roll. Welcome to another edition of the Giants Shuttle Podcast,
brought to you by Citizens, the official bank of the
New York Giants. I am John Schmelk. Thank you so
much for being with us today. We're finally just about here.
We're only one day away. This is posting on the
Wednesday before the twenty twenty five NFL Draft. Thank you
so much for being with us these past two or
three months. I hope you've enjoyed the content we put
(00:30):
out there getting you ready for the draft. I know
I've enjoyed doing all these interviews, doing all these shows,
and I really think the whole group, if you've been
paying attention to listening, you know exactly what's coming around one, two, three, four,
day three, the NFL Draft. I think we're all prepared.
I had a lot of fun. Hope you've enjoyed the content.
You can go back on the Giants Huddle feed, you
can go on the Giants YouTube channel watch some of
(00:50):
those interviews. They're all still relevant. None of them are dated,
so'll make sure you check them out. And for our
final guests before the NFL Draft, though.
Speaker 1 (00:58):
We might squeeze in one more.
Speaker 3 (01:00):
That's a TBD.
Speaker 2 (01:00):
We'll see if you can get you one more special
guy to talk some quarterbacks with you. You'll have to
wait and see about that. But it's a first time
guest on the Giants Total Podcast, coming to you from
the Hackensack and Maritey Health Podcast studio. Keep getting better.
Now we welcome in our guest Todd McShay, longtime draft analyst.
We thank him for being with us and Todd, you've
kind of gone off and done your own media thing here,
(01:22):
which is pretty exciting. Tell us all about it.
Speaker 1 (01:25):
Yeah, I'm working with The Ringer and Spotify. We've got
the mcshae Show, which we're having a blast with. It's
myself and Steve Mench who played football with at Richmond
and he's been working with me behind the scenes for
twenty five years, so I love the man. We love
working together and got the mcshaye Report as well. Just
google it and subscribe all of our content, so we're
(01:46):
having fun. It's a different chapter. It's a new chapter
and honestly, I can't. I don't know that I've ever
enjoyed what I've done more than I do now.
Speaker 2 (01:54):
Algan Todd, I gotta be honest with you. I've worked
in radio, I worked in TV. You're kind of dictated
to what you have to do based on segment length
and what people are gonna want to hear. I'm sure
you got tired of talking about the quarterbacks every draft
segmenteded in on ESPN for years. Right now you can
kind of talk about what you want to talk about.
That's got to be fun for you, right.
Speaker 1 (02:12):
It's a blast. Like we do wind up doing like
full page reports on four hundred and twenty five guys
every year. And I'm not gonna you know, I've learned
a couple of things from working at ESPN, and and
I'm obviously not gonna sit here and do two hour
shows with offensive guards from small schools and like, I
get it. But I also it's fun to be able
(02:34):
to actually share that work. And you know what I found,
honestly just from like the comments and people, I think
people appreciate that they're getting a more but also be
kind of behind the scenes the process. How does this
all work? And that's been fun to share because it's
something and it's no fault of like ESPN or any
broadcast network. You know, you've got commercial breaks, you've got segments.
(02:57):
There are other you know, analysts on the show, and
you bounce it this, so you're kind of limited here.
There's there's no limits. I always said, I said, let's
try to keep it around an hour, and then we
wound up going to like an hour and forty five
minutes a show, So there we go.
Speaker 2 (03:10):
It is the nature of the beast doing that stuff.
But yeah, I mean, good luck with the venture, Todd.
We'rek site to see everything you have. I appreciate on
with the uh with with the ringer. Moving forward here,
so let's start high level with the giants here, Todd
at third overall, if you're sitting there, is it as
simple as all right, if I do a Quarters there,
we pick him. If Travis Hunter's there, we pick him.
Or does another player enter the chat for you? Assuming
(03:32):
cam Warden either Quarter or a Hunter or going one two.
Speaker 1 (03:36):
I mean it sounds simple, right, Let's just stay here
and take this great player. But obviously a lot of
due diligence goes into all of this, And at the
end of the day, the general manager, Joe Shane, he's
going to have his opinion and he's he he will
do a great job of getting the information that he
requires from every aspect of the organization. We could do
(03:56):
a whole show on what all those things are when
you come to a consensus on your board. And I'm
talking to people around the league. This isn't just for
the Giants, and I don't know exactly where they are
in their process, but the board's being set last week
and this week. And I've talked to some organizations like
he we finished our offense last week and this week
it's defense. But the board will be set by the
time we get to the weekend. Okay, But what's fascinating
(04:18):
to me and different, and the Giants are at the
epicenter of all of it. It is not normal, man.
I'm looking at at what's Today's the seventeenth of April.
The draft is one week away, the twenty fourth. I
can't remember a year in which it's not just one quarterback,
but it's quarterbacks flying too, organizations all over the country,
(04:40):
and those organizations that firing up the private jet and
going to going to get workouts at the last minute.
That's different, and so it begs the question. And I
had a conversation with actually two different conversations with people
in the league this weekend, and I was kind of
closing the book on the Giants with Shadoor. That's the
right football decision. You can't pass on one of these
blue blue chip type guys, right. But information doesn't like
(05:07):
Joe Shane's not calling. Someone said, yeah, we're you know,
we might be taking but people are in the building,
and you know, the information kind of came out. I
don't know a lot of times it's leaked, but I
was starting to get information from people in the league
who are talking to other people in the league that hey,
I don't know where they would take him. I don't
know if it's at three. I don't know if it
would be trading up. I don't know if they're hoping
(05:27):
to eat falls. But don't close the book on Shador
to the Giants. And also they're like they're doing a
lot of work on the quarterbacks late. Then all of
a sudden, chefter comes out on Monday says there's a
private workout. They're flying to Boulder. And now like reports
have come out that that it's not just Boulder for Shador,
it's for Boulder to Tuscaloosa to is it Louisville after
(05:48):
the for Tyler Shuck. Okay, so we got we got Shadoor,
Milroe and Shuck and they already had a private workout
for Jackson Dark. I'll say this, looking at the landscape, right,
I don't think Schador goes in the top ten picks.
I don't think he's going nine to New Orleans. Now.
Things have changed in New Orleans with New Orleans with
(06:09):
Derek Carr with the shoulder injury, right, so there's more
urgency there. But I also look at this like they
just hired a head coach and Kellen Moore, Who's last
three o C jobs were Dak Prescott, Justin Herbert and
and Jalen Hurts. Yeah, pretty good, pretty good, but all
but there's some similarities. They're not all the same height
(06:30):
or the same weight, they all run different forties and
have different arms, but they all are sturdy, mobile, stronger
armed quarterbacks. That's Jackson Dark. Chadoor is precision, fast processing,
ball placement, layering the ball accurately, all those things. So
I don't think Chador is going at nine. I don't
think New Orleans want to take a quarterback at nine.
(06:52):
I think you've got three teams and maybe more, but
three teams that very very like. I think it's a
high probability that the three teams Cleveland at two, Giants
at three, Saints at nine all want to take the
players they should take in those positions. Like I can't
live knowing that Abduall Carter is gonna be prowling around
the NFL and not on my defense, right, that would
(07:13):
be the mindset. Same with Travis Hunter for Cleveland. And
so now we've got them sitting at thirty three Cleveland,
thirty four for the Giants, and forty for New Orleans.
And so now all of a sudden, these organization private
planes crossing in the night, going to all these different
spots and trying to figure out that secondary market for
the quarterback with Shador and Jackson Dart and Tyler Shuck
(07:37):
and Jaln Milroe. And I don't know, maybe it's I'm
crazy and I'm too involved with this. I think it's
absolutely fascinating that this much work is going in this
late in the process for these guys, and I can't
wait for the first night of the draft when that music,
you know, the ding ding ding comes in and it's
like they have traded their pick. Whether it's Atlanta at
(07:58):
fifteen only have five pick in the entire draft, Minnesota
at twenty four only have four picks. Those are the
teams with the fewest picks in the draft, or another
team that we don't suspect at this point. At some
point we're gonna hear that that noise. Come on, GADeL
to the mic and trick the pick has been traded.
The New York Giants are now on the clock, you know.
(08:19):
So that's that to me, is the story of the
entire draft.
Speaker 2 (08:22):
Yeah, and then you have Pittsburgh sitting there at twenty one, right.
Speaker 1 (08:25):
Twenty one, And that's why I'm saying teams have to trade. Yeah,
if you want Shador, everyone, there's there's a big you know,
post it up there. If you want Shador, it's gotta
be before twenty one. That's all my intel and everyone
I talked to in the league. Tomlin likes him a lot,
but they don't have a second round pick. I don't
think they're gonna move up for him. If he falls there, wonderful,
but everyone knows if we want shador, we got to
(08:47):
get up ahead of twenty one.
Speaker 2 (08:49):
The Giants Total podcast is brought to you by Citizens,
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Speaker 1 (09:03):
Huddle up, get in here. If you're lined up here,
you gotta go over the middle with at the score great.
How do we make that happen? I don't know, but
Citizens does?
Speaker 2 (09:13):
It makes sense of your money with Citizens Official Bank
of ELI Manning, Yeah, I'm with you on that. So
when you look at the second group of quarterbacks, let's
say you can't move up and get your door, and
you're sitting there at thirty four, and maybe all three
of the you guys might not be there, maybe Cleveland
picks one or whatever. But if you're breaking down Milroe
versus Darton verse, shuck, how do you come down in
(09:34):
that debate for a particular second round quarterback?
Speaker 1 (09:36):
Here's the thing. We all like to rank them, right,
I mean, I make a living off of ranking guys,
and what could they be any different? Though? You know
what I mean would be any different. Yeah, I mean truly,
I just I just told you. Schador is precision, kind
of West Coast fast processing accuracy. Dart stronger, arm, more mobile,
sturdy build the thing with Dart that I loved. And
(09:59):
I I look at Brian Dable and I look at
his history, then you know he had I think he
had Jalen Hurts right, obviously he had Josh Allen, Daniel Jones. So,
and I can't express to you how much I how
much respect I have for Brian Dable in terms of
the offensive mind, developing quarterbacks and offensively. So I'm excited
(10:23):
for one of these guys to get with him and
for him to have a fresh start with a quarterback
that has legitimate upside. I was never a Daniel Jones guy,
and I don't I won't shy away from that, but
I just think he fits right. But Jackson Dart, he
comes from an offense where Lane Kiffin gave a lot
of the answers before the test. Ye, the concepts like
(10:43):
they run that sale concept to the left side Florida.
They were in it three times. The first time it's
a dropped past, second time its completion. Third time they
went to the well too often, but he still threw it.
And so the question you're asking yourself as an evaluator
and the reason why you have these meetings and you
bring him to your building, then you fly out to
down to you know, Oxford, Mississippi, is because you want
(11:04):
to study his mind. Here's here's an install here's packages.
All right, recite it to me, you know, run it back.
What did you see on this watching tape? All those
things to try to figure out is it just because
Lane gave it to him he didn't have to, or
is this something Lane had to protect. So that's the
fascinating part with Dark And then it's kind of obvious
(11:25):
with Jalen, like the processing is not there yet. He
had different coordinators three years. But this is a guy
who's got like a three six seven grade point average.
Most beloved guy I can remember, outside of maybe Will
Anderson and Tyler Booker. Their their offensive Like people just
love the human being and is patient and is the
(11:46):
kind of human being that will sit back and wait
and allow the organization to develop him and won't be
pushy and won't you know, not looking to go somewhere else.
So there's a lot of intrigue there, but that's like
a two year project. Yeah, I think Jackson Dart to
me is a one year. You're looking at twenty twenty
six with Dart, and you can play him this year,
(12:07):
you know, at some point if you need to. But
with Milroe, you're looking at twenty twenty seven before you're
probably comfortable handing him those keys to the organization.
Speaker 2 (12:15):
All right, if you don't go quarterback, then at thirty four, Todd,
I think the Giants need a defensive tackle next to
next to Lawrence, they could use a guard. This is
a good trench draft, especially on the defensive line. They
have picks at thirty four, sixty five, ninety nine to
one to five, so they got four picks really in
the meat of this draft where you can get a
lot of good players. How would you manage those groups
with guard, defensive tackle in terms of maximizing your value
(12:39):
while maybe not trying to overlook you know, tight end
and running back where it's just a really good class.
You probably want to get guys at those spots.
Speaker 1 (12:44):
Anyway, Yeah, it's interesting. I mean the guard class, you've
got two that could go in the first round. I
mentioned Booker from Alabama, he's probably he will be off
the board. I think it's very likely but not certain,
that Gray z Abel will be off the board. The
North Dakota State who's awesome during his career there and
then showed up at the Senior Bowl and did what
(13:05):
guys like Toront Armstead and mar Pett and Cody Mock
and a lot of other smaller school guys did at
the Senior Bowl. They showed like, yeah, I can do
it here too. So I think Zabel would be like
one of those gut whether it's an interior defensive lineman.
I don't know that Kenneth Grant from Michigan will fall,
but you never know. And if it's not the Chargers
(13:27):
of twenty two, and if it's not like the last
like Kansas City or or Philly, maybe he falls into
their lap. Or a Walter Nolan who's he's got a
little bit of baggage but might be the most physically
gifted defensive tackle on this class. So there will be
options there. And the nice part about this, yeah, they
could use another running back, right, but you can get
(13:47):
one in the fourth round. You can get like a
Devi and Neil from Kansas who was just fight out
awesome and quick twitch, and so there's a lot of
backs to get throughout this process. I think interior, defensive
line and edge and running back are the three deepest positions.
And the reason I bring that up is those are
areas that they could go right. But maybe a lot
(14:10):
of gms at this point in time having these conversations,
it's a lot about the combo picks, if you will, like,
all right, like, yeah, we have the same grade on
on this or let's say offensive tackle, right, just yeah,
there's like five of them. And after that, like, I
literally I can't find a guy that I would put
my name on and say I'm very c I feel
great about the fact he's going to be a good
(14:32):
starter in the league. And so yeah, I might have
a higher grade on an Ashton Jenty than I do
want a Will Campbell. But if I don't take Campbell here,
I'm not getting the tackle. And that's that's kind of it.
If I take Campbell here, the offensive tackle, I can
get Travon Henderson, I can get Quinn Shawn Judkins, you
know what I mean. Like, so, so gms are it's
(14:55):
it's about the board, right, But at the end of
the day, they have to think step ahead of if
I if I don't, and I think spy tech. The
GM for the Raiders came out and talked told sorry
about about Bury the safety, and there was a corner
Joe Hayden, I think when he was in Cleveland that
same mindset. And I'm sure that those are the scenarios
that Joe Shane and the Giants organization are kind of
(15:18):
going through now as they look beyond just when do
we take Shador? Do we take Shador? Do we take
one of these quarterbacks? Like there's a whole draft out
there beyond these first two picks.
Speaker 3 (15:29):
If you want to know how to manage two minutes
of crunch time football, I'm your man.
Speaker 1 (15:32):
But if you're wondering about a long term financial plan,
you should talk to citizens. Hey, I can also talk
long care. I'd like to learn about a mow routine. Yes,
I knew I could help make sense of your money
with citizens.
Speaker 2 (15:43):
All right, So I'm gonna end here our final question.
If you, if you were the Giants GM build the
ideal Giants draft class, what does it look like Sunday morning?
You wake up you feel great about what the Giants
did in this year's draft.
Speaker 1 (15:56):
I would if if the opportunity he's presented, I would
take Abdul Carter at three. I don't think you can
pass on him. We'll see what the future holes with Cavon,
Thibodeau and just the thought of having Thibodeau, Burns and
Carter prowling on like a third and eight, third and nine,
you know, like.
Speaker 3 (16:16):
With Dexter, who right like like we don't have to
score a ton of points now, you know, So that
would be my I just that would be not easy,
but that would be the decision I would make.
Speaker 1 (16:29):
Then it would be obviously with working in conjunction with Brian,
but I would like to think I haven't had any
conversations with him specifically about this that like a guy
like Dart and Tyler Shuck, those two guys that he
sees in them a lot of stuff he could work with.
I would then have conversations. I think Minnesota would be
(16:51):
the jumping off point kind of get back into the
first round, because I'm afraid of Cleveland moving up. I'm
afraid of New Orleans moving up. The Raiders are kind
of lurking back there. The Jets, you never know, like,
so I would I would move back in. Unfortunately, it
might require giving up one of those two third round
picks this year, but not a second next year, because
(17:12):
if you're going up for Shador, you got to do
it ahead of twenty one, and so you're in that
like eleven, twelve to nineteen twenty range, okay, And if
that's the guy you've committed to, then you're probably gonna
have to go closer to ten than you are to
twenty because because New Orleans and Cleveland are still lurking
there as well. So I would. I would hope that
(17:33):
Brian would be in lockstep, that Jackson dark Can could
do what we need him to do, and maybe we
can get away with moving up in that in the
twenties rather than the teens. We'll give away a third
this year, but we still have another third we got.
We'll still have seven overall picks, and we're not giving
away our second next year. We're not giving away our
first next year. We have our full sight a year
(17:53):
from now. That that would be how I would attack things.
If again, that's assuming someone will trade out. That's assuming
Brian is a lockstep and the ownerships. Hey, it's also
assuming ownership's not involved in this decision, and the Giants,
like many other organizations, when it comes to this high
profile of a decision with the quarterback position in that market,
(18:17):
with the guy like Shador out there, you never know
what last minute curve ball can be thrown in for
the general manager.
Speaker 2 (18:24):
Todd, I could talk draft all day with you. Do
like Shamar Turner, Vers, Darius Alexander dig deep on the return?
You like Turner? There you go, Todd awesome stuff. Guys.
Go find the McShay show on YouTube. Go subscribe to
the McShay Report. Google search it. Todd awesome stuff. Thanks
so much of the time. Let's talk again soon.
Speaker 1 (18:41):
All right, absolutely, but good luck. Have a fun draft week.
Speaker 2 (18:44):
Hey you two man, that's Todd McShay again. Make sure
you go check out the McShay show, The McShay Report
courtesy of The Ringer. You can just search for mcshae report.
You can subscribe. It gets you as draft ranking is
all that good stuff. Todd's awesome. We'll she had more
time with him, but I was very happy. We'll get
him on the show, first time we've ever had him
on the gihns Little Podcast. Try to get a couple
of first timers every year. Was happy to make Todd
(19:07):
one of those guys here in twenty twenty five, and
again we might have one more, maybe one more before
Draft nine.
Speaker 1 (19:13):
On The Johns Little Podcast.
Speaker 2 (19:14):
We'll see. I'm working on it. It would be a
fun surprise, something that's been on before. But I want
to get his insight if we can get him, so
we'll see if that works out. Guys, thanks for being
with us all Draft season long on The Johns Little
Podcast from the Hackensack Meridian Health Podcast Studio. Keep getting
better for our guest, Todd McShay. I am John Schmulk.
Thank you for joining us on this episode of The
(19:35):
Johns Little Podcast. Brought to you by Citizens, the official
bank of the New York Giants.
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