March 10, 2022 • 26 mins
It's episode six of the Draft Preview Podcast as host Ethan Greenberg and Dane Brugler break down the NFL Draft Combine. They start by talking about the show that the defensive line prospects put on during drills in Indianapolis (1:45) and how Georgia DE Travon Walker pushed his stock as a viable option for the Jets and pick No. 4 (5:22). Brugler discusses the week that top prospect Oregon Edge Kayvon Thibodeaux (8:30) and Cincinnati CB Sauce Gardner (11:30) had during the NFL Combine. Lastly, Brugler gives us his list of defensive prospects (13:45) and offensive prospects (17:45) that won the week at the NFL Scouting Combine.
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
The New York Jet are now on the board. Okay,
Jeff Durrell read this in New York has been one
of the greatest pleass Zack spit that w and the
brand that one right now the New York Jet Fleck.
Welcome to another episode NFL Draft preview. Ethan Greenberg Game Brugler,
(00:21):
fresh off the combine. Both had some great steaks in Indianapolis.
You know, one of us got to stay the whole way.
How many steaks did you have? Let's let's set the
record straight here. How many steaks did you have in Indianapolis?
I think it was three? Um? All fantastic. Um. I mean,
can't can't go wrong with the steakhouses in downtown Indianapolis.
(00:43):
Cowboy Ribi remains undefeated. Yes, I I agree with that.
I went once. That's what that was my that was
my order, right, we talked about that's what we're gonna
get originally. Uh. Did you stick with the Cowboy Ribi
all three nights? Maybe? Uh, it's just you know, when
when you find something you like, you I'm I'm a
creature habit. So did you did you maybe switch it
up a little bit? Then? No? No, no, no, no, no, no, no,
(01:06):
I'm the same way. If it ain't broke, don't fix it, right,
and it's it's this isn't like a This isn't like,
for example, like a fast food chain where you know,
maybe you want to get something different just because you
haven't had it before. Like, I know, I like it.
It's delicious, It's what I needed, and it lived up
to its expectations. But talking about maybe exceeding expectations, right,
nice little pivot here into the workouts the defense. Let's
(01:28):
start on Saturday when the defensive line ran basically ran
out of the building in Lucas Oil. Is that fair
to say? I mean, like, were you what were your
expectations heading into Saturday and really the combine and where
did the d line stack up to your expectations? Well,
even I've been coming to the combines for over ten
(01:49):
years now, and uh, that night, Saturday night, watching sitting
in Lucas Oil Stadium, watching the defensive tackles, the edge rushers,
the linebackers. This is the most fun I've ever had
at the combine. Uh. Just you know, sometimes drills they
could drag at times where it's just all right, you know,
how many more groups we have to go through here,
and but that wasn't the case with this group. It
(02:11):
was a lot of fun watching these guys work out.
It started with a bang with Jordan Davis, that knows
tack a lot of Georgia, three forty one pounds going
out there and running a four seventy eight, which is
just a remarkable time for a guy that size. To
put it in perspective, Fletcher Cox he blew it up
with a four seven nine and so not not even
(02:32):
as fast as Jordan Davis. Uh. And Jordan Davis is
also forty three pounds heavier than Fletcher coxed so so
it's just hard to really uh digest fully what Jordan
Davis did in his workouts. And it wasn't just the
forty year dash talk about a thirty a ten three
broad so the jumps were amazing as well. Uh And
(02:54):
those are elite numbers for a three hundred pounder, let
alone a three forty one pounder. So I think Jordan Davis,
with what he did, he locked himself into the top
twenty picks. And now it's just a matter of you know,
I think some of the questions are still there that
we've talked about, you know, with the snap count. Uh,
what does he give you on third down? The pass
rush potential, all those questions those are still there. But
(03:17):
with what he did, the athleticism that he showed, he's
going somewhere top t one. How about your guy, Travon Walker.
I mean, the Georgia defense, whatever is going on in
Athens is doing They're doing something right down there in Georgia.
And actually so much to say that in your latest
mock draft, and we're gonna talk about our own Jets
three sixty mock draft next week, but you have Travon
(03:39):
Walker going number three overall to the Houston Texans. How
much of that is predicated on what he did in Indianapolis?
Oh quite a bit. Uh. And to me, it really
wasn't that big of a surprise. Travon Walker was my
number six overall player committed to the Combine, so uh
and and you know a big reason for that is
because of the freaking traits that he shows on the tape.
(04:01):
So you know, just because he showed out at the Combine,
you don't want to all of a sudden count it
twice because that's that's what I expected, and he uh
met all those expectations. Probably exceeded them a little bit.
Six five seventy two pounds, ran a four or five nine,
which is outstanding, thirty five and a half in the
vert ten three broad six eight nine in the three cone.
(04:22):
That that's a mind blowing number at two hundred seventy
two pounds to post a better three cone than most
of the linebackers a lot of wide receivers. So a
guy that moves like that is just it's special. And
he has that length thirty five and a half in charms.
So Travon Walker, does he have the production? No, But
again when you look at how he was used in
(04:43):
that Georgia defense, tightly aligned, asked to hold the point
of attack, not asked to just rush the passer, they
would drop him into space quite a bit. So just
with the way he was used, he was productive. It
just doesn't always show up on the stat sheet. So
if you use him in more of it, a traditional
defensive end role where he can set the edge but
also get after the quarterback, I think he's going to
(05:05):
put up plenty of sack numbers, the production will follow.
So Travon Walker, I think you're already a top ten
player for me only, I think uh, confirmed that for
a lot of other people who maybe had their doubts.
So needless to say, Travon Walker a viable jets at
number four as we sit here in early March with
(05:27):
over a month left in the pre draft process, right, Yeah,
no question. Um, I think that he was already in
that mix in my opinion, because you know, I've I've
been saying this, my my line with Travon Walker. The
entire draft process has been this in three years. If
you tell me that Travon Walker is the best defensive
player from this class, that would not be a surprise
(05:48):
because he has that ability. It's just is it more
of a projection with him compared to some of these
other players, Yeah, because we haven't seen him necessarily do
it because of the way he was used. But you
know that's why Jermaine Johnson from Florida State, who also
had a great workout, that's why he transferred from Georgia
to Florida State so he could be that guy, he
could be the alpha on the defensive line. He bet
on himself and turned into a potential top ten pick. Uh.
(06:11):
In Travaud Walker, you have to understand, you know, reasons
and excuses and I think it's more of a reason,
way more of a reason than excuse why he didn't
post the big time sack numbers. It's just the way
he was used. You know. I'm glad you mentioned Jermaine Johnson.
He's somebody I wanted to ask about because he actually
spoke with the linebacker group. Right. So do you read
(06:32):
into that at all that he spoke with the linebackers,
worked out with the linebackers as opposed to the d N.
Or you think that he's just kind of an edge
rusher and he's a three or four outside linebacker at
a four three d N. Yeah, I don't. I don't
read too much into it. I don't. They did some
backy things with the grouping this Yearnedo from Oklahoma, who's
you know, more of a stand up linebacker. He was
(06:52):
with the defensive tackles. Um. The Stanford kid Booker was
with the defensive ends when he's clearly a defensive tackle.
So I don't read too much into it, um, But
I do think it's you know, you can make a
case why three four teams that are going to use
him as more of a stand up guy at linebacker. Uh,
you know why they would be interested in him because
he can do that at his size, running a four
(07:14):
or five eight, which at the same time Cavon Thibodeau ran. Uh.
So he I think Jeremaine Johnson helped himself ran really well. Uh.
No one has had the type of calendar year like
Jermaine Johnson mentioned before, transferring the Florida State leading the
a SEC and tackles for a loss and sacks, going
to the Senior Bowl as the top defensive senior there
(07:34):
and just dominating, uh, you just confirming what we already knew,
and then going to the Combine checking that box. Uh,
and leaving Indianapolis as probably, uh, you know, a favorite
to be you know, somewhere in the top ten picks. Uh.
You know who knows the feel even be on the
board when the Jets come on the clock at number ten.
So Jeremaine Johnson, I thought, has had a tremendous year,
(07:55):
a tremendous draft process, and a guy that doesn't matter
what scheme you run, Uh, he's gonna fit. And you know,
like I've mentioned before, with him, my favorite part about
what he does is if I flipped my five favorite
uh plays from Jermaine Johnson this year, maybe three of
them are versed the run, because he is an outstanding
run defender, but he also has uh the explosiveness that
(08:18):
you want as a pass rusher. You know, I'm glad
you mentioned Cavon Thibodeau because obviously, heading into the week
you had said that this is gonna be a big
week for him. The interview process a lot of the
stuff off the field. But so he runs, he bench
presses twenty seven reps, both pretty. Twenty seven reps is impressive,
and then he doesn't do any of the workouts. And
you know, I think it was Peter King wrote an
(08:39):
article and he somebody that he spoke to said, like
Tibodeau said, you know, it's just kind of a long day.
That's why he didn't work out. What does what's your
take on that? Because I imagine that if you're an
evaluator and that's the reasoning for not participating on the field,
you're like, okay, Like what's going on here? Especially mixed
in the drink that has already been broad together with
(09:01):
all the off field stuff with the brand a vision
that I think a lot of people think came on Thibodeau,
has it was a choice Um, and I think it's
really a missed opportunity for him. Uh. You know, look
at a guy like Travon Walker who goes out there
and does every single drill. Um not only impresses athletically,
but the position specific drills was he was outstanding. You know,
(09:22):
watching him do the hoop drill was remarkable. And so
I think, you know, you're coming out of the Combine
feeling so good about Travon Walker and what he could
be in his projection. Cavan Tipodeaux he has the ability
to do that, so why not go out there and
show what you can do. You know, it's not something
where you're necessarily gonna, you know, drop him or but
if teams have a say they have a close grade,
(09:45):
almost an identical grade between Cavon Thibodeau and Travon Walker,
You're taking Walker because you just saw him do it
on the field, and you know, Keivon Tibodeau will have
his pro day, but not every evaluator that is at
the Combine will be at his pro day. Every I'm
sure every team will be represented, maybe not every general manager.
Where you had almost every general manager in attendance at
(10:06):
Lucas oil watching you work out, So I think it's
maybe a little bit of a missed opportunity for him.
But again, it's not something that alone is going to
drop him down a little bit, but it does not
help him. I thought it was a missed opportunity. Alright.
One last question on the defensive line, because we're gonna
talk about these guys as we get closer to the draft.
But could yes or no question in terms of Jermaine Johnson,
(10:29):
you said he might not be there at ten. Is
he a viable option at number four for the Jets?
I mean I think sure, I mean you could, uh,
you know, I think when you're picking four, just lay
out the best four players in the draft and you're
gonna get one of those guys. Right, So is Jermaine
Johnson one of the four best players in the draft.
(10:49):
I mean I think you could probably stretch it a
little bit and say that. For me personally, I think,
you know, he's he's not the fourth best player, but
he's just a really darn good player and pass rusher.
They're gonna go early in this draft. I think the
top ten, top twelve pass rushers, offensive tackles, we're gonna
see a lot of those two positions fly off the board,
maybe corner as well. So, uh, you know, Jeremy Johnson,
(11:11):
I think it's more of a case of he plays
the right position. He's a really good player. Is he
the fourth best player in the draft? Probably not, but
a really good player alright. Moving on to cornerback here,
Sauce Gardner, I feel like a lot of the buzzes.
He had a really good workout and coming out of Indianapolis.
But we were on this podcast a couple of weeks ago.
You told me that cornerback is one of those positions
(11:32):
that's really dependent on a stop watch. And he ran
the four or five two and then the four four seven,
where then you're looking at another guy like Terek Woollin,
who was the fastest player at the Senior Bowl right
in terms of GPS data, and then he had a
blazing fast forty at Lucas Oil. So I'm not asking
you to compare the two players, but when you look
(11:53):
at two guys who are tall, long and rangey, how
do you go about evaluating their separate workouts knowing one
of them is clearly a lot faster than the other. Well,
and to be fair, the quote unquote official time for
Sauce Gardeners four four one, so you know, a lot
different than the unofficial times up n NFL network. So
(12:15):
for Sauce Gardner to go out there with his thirty
three and a half inch arms, his tall stature, to
go out there run a four for one, pretty pretty impressive.
And I think that's you know, it's gonna be hard
to see Sauce Gardner fall out of the top ten
picks because of that. Uh, not to mention his great
film and his just his career resume that put together,
um and I think with true Woolen, uh, you know,
(12:36):
he there. It's hard for guys when you are billed
as this track star, as this speed demon, it could
it could be tougher times for you to go out
there and consistently live up to that. But you know
what you mentioned the Senior Bowl twenty two point four
or five miles per hour, that's what they clocked him
at the fastest ever in the five years that they've
been tracking that at the Senior Bowl, goes to the
(12:58):
to the combine and rips off a four two six
forty yard dash. So for Tarik Will and still raw,
still growing in a lot of areas of the position.
But when you have a guy that's over two hunter
pounds six three, has length and has that type of speed,
you're gonna bet on that that that's that's the guy
that's gonna go somewhere on Day two, second or third round,
and you're gonna look to develop him at the cornerman position.
(13:19):
But I do think with Sauce Gardon are coming in
with the length that he has, the speed, I think
he locked himself in the cornerback one. For a lot
of teams in this draft. Who are other players on
defense regardless of position that if you were if you
are at a local establishment, let's just say you were
out to lunch, you're grabbing a sandwich, someone like Hey, Dane,
who are some of the guys that you think you
(13:40):
know really won the week on defense, not the guys
that we talked about. Who else is in that conversation, Well,
I think you Jordan Davis and what he did just
it kind of sucked all the air out of the
room and so there wasn't much room for everybody else
but Travis Jones. Uh, if George Davis was did not
say he didn't work out in Indie we'd be talking
a lot more about Travis Jones, the nose tackle from Yukon.
(14:02):
We talked about him at the Senior Bowl, how he dominated,
He showed up, overpowered, everyone showed quickness, nobody could block
him all week. He goes to the combine and I
thought he only helped himself further. For a guy that's
three twenty five pounds running a four nine two is
remarkable that the jumps were solid, twenty eight and a
half ver nine too broad and then seven three three
(14:23):
in in in the three cone, just a just an
outstanding numbers for comparison purposes. The league average for a
defensive tackle is seven point four zero, and he ran
a seven point three three at three pounds. So I
thought after the Senior Bowl Travis Jones had put himself
into that top fifty conversation. Would not be surprised at
all if he goes in the first round. Now that's
(14:45):
that's actually where I put him in my updated mock draft.
So Travis Jones a big winner. Um, you know, we
need to talk about some of these linebackers. I thought
Christian Harris from Alabama ran really well four four four
in the forty yard dash eleven foot in the broad
Just the outstanding numbers from him not too surprising considering
he was a high school corner who goes to Alabama
and transitions the linebacker Chad Muma from Wyoming, a guy
(15:09):
who is just you know, checked every box along throughout
the process. Four six three to forty yard dash, forty
in vert. He also let all linebackers with twenty seven
ms on the bench press, so, uh, several of these
linebackers did well. And then you know, we have to
mention some of the DB's Calif Barns are touting Palin Barnes. Uh.
He was my pick at the beginning of the week
(15:29):
for the fastest forty yard dash when you look his
track background, winning state titles as a junior and senior
in high school in the state of Texas. For him
to go out there on a four to three come
very very close to uh beating John Ross's four to
two record for the official forty yard dash times in
combine history. Uh, he came close. And you know that
(15:50):
speed shows up on tape, So I think that's gonna
be something that helps him throughout the process. And then
at safety. Uh, two guys, I I really have to
mention here Lewis, you know, it's just another Georgian defender
six to pounds. His ability to drive on the football,
you know, is something that really stands out with him
on film four three cents and forty eight match that
(16:13):
ring top ten among all defensive backs, better than a
lot of corners, uh, thirty six and a half inch vert.
And then he had the best broad jump among all
defensive players eleven foot one inch. Uh. He's been a
top fifty guy for me dating back to the summer,
and I think he's lived up to it in every
single way. Uh. He's gonna be a guy that's talked
about maybe the back half of round one, and if
(16:35):
he's still there in early day two, probably a guy
that Jets will be looking at. And then one other player,
small school guy. If you're a small schooler coming from
an FCS level, there's a little extra that you need
to show with the combine. Whether it's fair or not,
it's the truth. And for Zion McCullum from sam Houston
State to go out there at six two pounds, he
runs a four three three in the forty yard dash.
(16:57):
He jumped eleven feet in the broad thirty nine and
a half in the vert The most impressive numbers that
he put up short shuttle three nine four, just any anything,
if you come close to four even, it's remarkable. He
got under four three nine four and in in the
three cone, anything under seven seconds in the three cone
is an above average time. He got six for eight,
(17:20):
So the fastest three cone, the fastest short shuttle at
this year's combine. A good week at the Senior Bowl,
now an exceptional week and combine, we're gonna start talking
to more about Zion McCollum throughout the process and where
he might fit in this draft. All right, that was
a great answer, And you know, I'm trying to give
you a little bit of a breather just so you can,
you know, take a breath, because I'm gonna ask you
(17:41):
the same thing about offense. Who are some of those
guys that you think on offense really helped themselves, whether
that speed workout or whatever the case may be. Well,
looking at the receivers, Calvin Austin, Uh, you know coming in,
you know he's not he's not a big guy. We
know that that's you have to be comfortable with the
guy that's five seven. You never really gonna be bigger
than say one eighty. That's just that's his makeup, that's
(18:03):
who he is. But if you know, not every offense
is gonna have a role like that for someone that size.
But there's a role for uh, somebody with with his speed,
you know, to come in and run a four three
two uh explosive in the jumps, thirty nine vertu is
over eleven feet and abroad and then three cone. You know,
I just mentioned how anything under seven sections is is
(18:25):
an above average time. He was six six five in
the three cones. So Calvin Austin a third out of
Memphis track background, so it was expected that he would
run well, but I thought he even exceeded those expectations
with the way he showed up. I think he's a
he's a player that we're gonna be talking about possibly
on day two. Another guy who fits that uh kind
of that categories Christian Watson at the North Kota State
(18:46):
who we saw at the Senior Bowl. I still think
the route running is a little more raw than people
want to admit. But six four almost two pounds uh,
thirty two and a half inch arms, he went out there,
ran a fourth three six thirty eight and a half
inch vert. I think you had the best broad ject
eleven uh eleven two eleven four or something like that.
(19:07):
So Christian Watson helped himself. He's also in that Day
two mix is a guy who is a little more
raw than like I said, I think people want to
admit but when you have that athleticism guy that you
want to get your program and develop and bring along
at his own pace. So there's a couple of wide
receivers like those guys who stood out. You know, I
(19:27):
know that you often talk about guys who cemented you
know where they will be drafted. For example, you said
George Davis cemented himself as a top twenty pick. What
about a guy like Chris Olave who you expected to
run well? He ran really well. This is a wide
receiver class that feels like there is, you know, is
no universal number one guy. Not saying Chris Lave is
going to be that guy. But where do you see
(19:49):
now after the combine, where do you see Chris Olav
most likely being drafted In terms of arrange, I don't
know that what he did necessarily move the needle at all,
because I think Kris all I did exactly what he's
done in Ohio State the last four years. Uh. Play fast,
play technically proficient, and go out there and be productive. Uh.
That's exactly what he did at our house state. That's
(20:09):
exactly what he did the combine, writing a four three
nine official. I actually thought he'd be a little faster
his his unofficial times in the four twos. Uh, and
then it was adjusted to a four three nine. Um.
But I you know, I'm talked in to just uh
scouts that on the stands, because it's also important to
point out that teams are gonna use their own hand
times for these these workouts more so than these quote
(20:30):
unquote official times that the NFL post uh. And the
main reason for that is just so they have some
type of continuity between the pro days and the combine
when they're using their own hand times. So, but I
know he was talking to some Scotts. They had Crystal
Lovey and the low four threes, which I think makes
more sense for what he is. UM. But I think
when teams look at it and they try to, you know,
(20:51):
divide up these receivers and you know, try to stack
him in order, you're gonna look at a lava and yes,
I wish he gave you a little more after the catch.
He's not much of a tackle break her and you
just you don't see enough after the catch, especially compared
to his teammate Karrett Wilson. But if you're looking for
a guy who is going to be in the right
place at the right time when he's supposed to be
there as a rout runner, that's chrisal love A. And
(21:13):
he has the speed where you can't just sit on
his routes because he will make you pay. When teams
look at that and see a guy that is going
to step in from day one and be productive. Uh,
it's it's gonna be a lot of He's gonna have
a lot of potential suitors in the first round. So
I think he's gonna somewhere in the top picks. Uh.
And I think the combine just kind of confirmed. But
we already knew about it, alright. A couple more questions
(21:35):
for you. One guy we didn't talk about. I don't
want to say he made headlines, but something that was
talked about, at least nationally it seemed like, was Kyle
Hamilton's forty. Seemed like everybody in Indianapolis was running extremely fast,
especially like you just said, Sauce Gardner's unofficial times a
lot slower than his official time. But for a guy
like Kyle Hamilton's, well, what do you make of his
(21:57):
specifically his forty yard dash and how much is that
impact let's say, the rest of his workout and potentially
how teams view him now in this next month and
a half. Yeah, and I think we have to remember
he's six four two twenty, so this is a big,
big guy. Um. And so he ran a four or
five nine. Um. I admit I thought he'd run faster
than that, but still four or five nine is not
(22:18):
a bad time for a guy that size. And I
don't have the numbers yet, but I am eager to
find out what is flying twenty was? You know that? Uh?
That twenty to forty that final that second half of
this forty yard dash, Because for a guy that size,
it could be a little tough getting out of your stands,
getting started unwinding those long legs to uh to be
(22:38):
a long strider. Uh. So I think that that that
he didn't have a great start in those forty yard dashes,
but I would bet his flying twenty the final half
of that forty yard dash. I'm gonna put that and
compare that to some of these other safeties, and I'll
bet it's one of the fastest among the safety group.
Is that that's where it really shows that closing burst,
(22:59):
his ability need to go out there and looks you
look fluid during the positional drills. So I don't think
the needle moves that much on Kyle Hamilton's didn't necessarily
surpass expectations, but I don't think you've heard himself either.
One last question for you, and I do just want
to point out that how freaky of an athlete Dk
metcalf is, being a similar ish size, running like a
(23:20):
four three three or whatever he ran for What did
he run? He ran for three? Didn't he Yeah? He
was four threes four three freak freak athlete, just an
absolute monster. So I just want to point that out there.
But one last question for you, So now that the
combine is behind us, how much hay is in the
barn in terms of from where you stand where these
(23:40):
players are now ranked between now early March and late
April when the draft comes, how much movement can there
be and do you think will there be? Well? You know,
I think from first of all, I just want to
point out how I think it's kind of funny how
every year, Um, you know we hear people talk about
the onbine. It's that's not really gonna move people. It's
(24:02):
not really gonna It's not gonna be much fluctuation. Yeah
there is. NFL teams can tell you whatever they want,
Yeah there is. It's just it's human nature. You know,
you're gonna see these guys in person. You see these
guys move, It's gonna affect your how you how you
look at these players. It's gonna affect your decision making.
It's going to affect how you rank these players. Um,
So there will be fluctuation out of the combine between
(24:22):
now and the rest of the process. The biggest thing,
at least from my perspective, is understanding the medical part,
because there's several players that are coming off. You know,
Derek Stingley, for example, coming back from his foot injury.
He expects to be a full participant at l s
u S Pro Day in early April. Drake London, the
wide receiver from USC, coming off his injury. He's expected
(24:43):
to be a full participant at his prode Day in
early April. So I think the biggest thing now that
we're out of the combine is understanding medically where some
of these guys are and should that uh is that
a red flag? Is that's something that should affect where
they where they're drafted. Just getting a a better picture
for the medical situations for a lot of these guys.
(25:04):
That's the biggest thing for me. But the Pro days
are still going to be important, especially for the players
that decided not to run. A guy like Nakobe Dean
from Georgia who opted not to run waitless Pro Day.
Several several guys did that um and I honestly it
might end up being a mistakes of these players because
the track Lucas Oil Stadium, this is what a lot
of people don't know. The track. They put a new
(25:25):
turf uh last year the summer of at Lucas Oil Stadium.
We didn't have a combine last year one. So this
is the first time we've seen these guys work out
at the combine on this new track, and that was
that was a reason behind a lot of these fast times.
And so the players that decided not to work out
at the combine, not to run wait to the pro
(25:46):
day might end up looking like a mistake. One last
question for you. Have you had stakes since returning home
in Ohio? You got you gotta end where we started.
Yeah know, I I wish because steak sounds good again.
It's never a bad time to have a good juicy steak.
But no, it's been a lot of baby food and uh,
(26:10):
you know those those little puffs and things like that.
We're you know, work helping with the kids and things
like Now that I'm back in the fold here, Um,
I walked in the door and my wife just handed
me two babies. So uh, that's just that's just how
it is. But you know what, it's all right. We
gotta we gotta last month here to really get a
lot of work done and get this draft guide done.
(26:30):
So I'm excited. And that's how we wrap up the
Combine Preview edition. Jane, Thanks lout We'll talk to you
next week. Thanks
The New York Jet are now on the board. Okay,
Jeff Durrell read this in New York has been one
of the greatest pleass Zack spit that w and the
brand that one right now the New York Jet Fleck.
Welcome to another episode NFL Draft preview. Ethan Greenberg Game Brugler,
(00:21):
fresh off the combine. Both had some great steaks in Indianapolis.
You know, one of us got to stay the whole way.
How many steaks did you have? Let's let's set the
record straight here. How many steaks did you have in Indianapolis?
I think it was three? Um? All fantastic. Um. I mean,
can't can't go wrong with the steakhouses in downtown Indianapolis.
(00:43):
Cowboy Ribi remains undefeated. Yes, I I agree with that.
I went once. That's what that was my that was
my order, right, we talked about that's what we're gonna
get originally. Uh. Did you stick with the Cowboy Ribi
all three nights? Maybe? Uh, it's just you know, when
when you find something you like, you I'm I'm a
creature habit. So did you did you maybe switch it
up a little bit? Then? No? No, no, no, no, no, no, no,
(01:06):
I'm the same way. If it ain't broke, don't fix it, right,
and it's it's this isn't like a This isn't like,
for example, like a fast food chain where you know,
maybe you want to get something different just because you
haven't had it before. Like, I know, I like it.
It's delicious, It's what I needed, and it lived up
to its expectations. But talking about maybe exceeding expectations, right,
nice little pivot here into the workouts the defense. Let's
(01:28):
start on Saturday when the defensive line ran basically ran
out of the building in Lucas Oil. Is that fair
to say? I mean, like, were you what were your
expectations heading into Saturday and really the combine and where
did the d line stack up to your expectations? Well,
even I've been coming to the combines for over ten
(01:49):
years now, and uh, that night, Saturday night, watching sitting
in Lucas Oil Stadium, watching the defensive tackles, the edge rushers,
the linebackers. This is the most fun I've ever had
at the combine. Uh. Just you know, sometimes drills they
could drag at times where it's just all right, you know,
how many more groups we have to go through here,
and but that wasn't the case with this group. It
(02:11):
was a lot of fun watching these guys work out.
It started with a bang with Jordan Davis, that knows
tack a lot of Georgia, three forty one pounds going
out there and running a four seventy eight, which is
just a remarkable time for a guy that size. To
put it in perspective, Fletcher Cox he blew it up
with a four seven nine and so not not even
(02:32):
as fast as Jordan Davis. Uh. And Jordan Davis is
also forty three pounds heavier than Fletcher coxed so so
it's just hard to really uh digest fully what Jordan
Davis did in his workouts. And it wasn't just the
forty year dash talk about a thirty a ten three
broad so the jumps were amazing as well. Uh And
(02:54):
those are elite numbers for a three hundred pounder, let
alone a three forty one pounder. So I think Jordan Davis,
with what he did, he locked himself into the top
twenty picks. And now it's just a matter of you know,
I think some of the questions are still there that
we've talked about, you know, with the snap count. Uh,
what does he give you on third down? The pass
rush potential, all those questions those are still there. But
(03:17):
with what he did, the athleticism that he showed, he's
going somewhere top t one. How about your guy, Travon Walker.
I mean, the Georgia defense, whatever is going on in
Athens is doing They're doing something right down there in Georgia.
And actually so much to say that in your latest
mock draft, and we're gonna talk about our own Jets
three sixty mock draft next week, but you have Travon
(03:39):
Walker going number three overall to the Houston Texans. How
much of that is predicated on what he did in Indianapolis?
Oh quite a bit. Uh. And to me, it really
wasn't that big of a surprise. Travon Walker was my
number six overall player committed to the Combine, so uh
and and you know a big reason for that is
because of the freaking traits that he shows on the tape.
(04:01):
So you know, just because he showed out at the Combine,
you don't want to all of a sudden count it
twice because that's that's what I expected, and he uh
met all those expectations. Probably exceeded them a little bit.
Six five seventy two pounds, ran a four or five nine,
which is outstanding, thirty five and a half in the
vert ten three broad six eight nine in the three cone.
(04:22):
That that's a mind blowing number at two hundred seventy
two pounds to post a better three cone than most
of the linebackers a lot of wide receivers. So a
guy that moves like that is just it's special. And
he has that length thirty five and a half in charms.
So Travon Walker, does he have the production? No, But
again when you look at how he was used in
(04:43):
that Georgia defense, tightly aligned, asked to hold the point
of attack, not asked to just rush the passer, they
would drop him into space quite a bit. So just
with the way he was used, he was productive. It
just doesn't always show up on the stat sheet. So
if you use him in more of it, a traditional
defensive end role where he can set the edge but
also get after the quarterback, I think he's going to
(05:05):
put up plenty of sack numbers, the production will follow.
So Travon Walker, I think you're already a top ten
player for me only, I think uh, confirmed that for
a lot of other people who maybe had their doubts.
So needless to say, Travon Walker a viable jets at
number four as we sit here in early March with
(05:27):
over a month left in the pre draft process, right, Yeah,
no question. Um, I think that he was already in
that mix in my opinion, because you know, I've I've
been saying this, my my line with Travon Walker. The
entire draft process has been this in three years. If
you tell me that Travon Walker is the best defensive
player from this class, that would not be a surprise
(05:48):
because he has that ability. It's just is it more
of a projection with him compared to some of these
other players, Yeah, because we haven't seen him necessarily do
it because of the way he was used. But you
know that's why Jermaine Johnson from Florida State, who also
had a great workout, that's why he transferred from Georgia
to Florida State so he could be that guy, he
could be the alpha on the defensive line. He bet
on himself and turned into a potential top ten pick. Uh.
(06:11):
In Travaud Walker, you have to understand, you know, reasons
and excuses and I think it's more of a reason,
way more of a reason than excuse why he didn't
post the big time sack numbers. It's just the way
he was used. You know. I'm glad you mentioned Jermaine Johnson.
He's somebody I wanted to ask about because he actually
spoke with the linebacker group. Right. So do you read
(06:32):
into that at all that he spoke with the linebackers,
worked out with the linebackers as opposed to the d N.
Or you think that he's just kind of an edge
rusher and he's a three or four outside linebacker at
a four three d N. Yeah, I don't. I don't
read too much into it. I don't. They did some
backy things with the grouping this Yearnedo from Oklahoma, who's
you know, more of a stand up linebacker. He was
(06:52):
with the defensive tackles. Um. The Stanford kid Booker was
with the defensive ends when he's clearly a defensive tackle.
So I don't read too much into it, um, But
I do think it's you know, you can make a
case why three four teams that are going to use
him as more of a stand up guy at linebacker. Uh,
you know why they would be interested in him because
he can do that at his size, running a four
(07:14):
or five eight, which at the same time Cavon Thibodeau ran. Uh.
So he I think Jeremaine Johnson helped himself ran really well. Uh.
No one has had the type of calendar year like
Jermaine Johnson mentioned before, transferring the Florida State leading the
a SEC and tackles for a loss and sacks, going
to the Senior Bowl as the top defensive senior there
(07:34):
and just dominating, uh, you just confirming what we already knew,
and then going to the Combine checking that box. Uh,
and leaving Indianapolis as probably, uh, you know, a favorite
to be you know, somewhere in the top ten picks. Uh.
You know who knows the feel even be on the
board when the Jets come on the clock at number ten.
So Jeremaine Johnson, I thought, has had a tremendous year,
(07:55):
a tremendous draft process, and a guy that doesn't matter
what scheme you run, Uh, he's gonna fit. And you know,
like I've mentioned before, with him, my favorite part about
what he does is if I flipped my five favorite
uh plays from Jermaine Johnson this year, maybe three of
them are versed the run, because he is an outstanding
run defender, but he also has uh the explosiveness that
(08:18):
you want as a pass rusher. You know, I'm glad
you mentioned Cavon Thibodeau because obviously, heading into the week
you had said that this is gonna be a big
week for him. The interview process a lot of the
stuff off the field. But so he runs, he bench
presses twenty seven reps, both pretty. Twenty seven reps is impressive,
and then he doesn't do any of the workouts. And
you know, I think it was Peter King wrote an
(08:39):
article and he somebody that he spoke to said, like
Tibodeau said, you know, it's just kind of a long day.
That's why he didn't work out. What does what's your
take on that? Because I imagine that if you're an
evaluator and that's the reasoning for not participating on the field,
you're like, okay, Like what's going on here? Especially mixed
in the drink that has already been broad together with
(09:01):
all the off field stuff with the brand a vision
that I think a lot of people think came on Thibodeau,
has it was a choice Um, and I think it's
really a missed opportunity for him. Uh. You know, look
at a guy like Travon Walker who goes out there
and does every single drill. Um not only impresses athletically,
but the position specific drills was he was outstanding. You know,
(09:22):
watching him do the hoop drill was remarkable. And so
I think, you know, you're coming out of the Combine
feeling so good about Travon Walker and what he could
be in his projection. Cavan Tipodeaux he has the ability
to do that, so why not go out there and
show what you can do. You know, it's not something
where you're necessarily gonna, you know, drop him or but
if teams have a say they have a close grade,
(09:45):
almost an identical grade between Cavon Thibodeau and Travon Walker,
You're taking Walker because you just saw him do it
on the field, and you know, Keivon Tibodeau will have
his pro day, but not every evaluator that is at
the Combine will be at his pro day. Every I'm
sure every team will be represented, maybe not every general manager.
Where you had almost every general manager in attendance at
(10:06):
Lucas oil watching you work out, So I think it's
maybe a little bit of a missed opportunity for him.
But again, it's not something that alone is going to
drop him down a little bit, but it does not
help him. I thought it was a missed opportunity. Alright.
One last question on the defensive line, because we're gonna
talk about these guys as we get closer to the draft.
But could yes or no question in terms of Jermaine Johnson,
(10:29):
you said he might not be there at ten. Is
he a viable option at number four for the Jets?
I mean I think sure, I mean you could, uh,
you know, I think when you're picking four, just lay
out the best four players in the draft and you're
gonna get one of those guys. Right, So is Jermaine
Johnson one of the four best players in the draft.
(10:49):
I mean I think you could probably stretch it a
little bit and say that. For me personally, I think,
you know, he's he's not the fourth best player, but
he's just a really darn good player and pass rusher.
They're gonna go early in this draft. I think the
top ten, top twelve pass rushers, offensive tackles, we're gonna
see a lot of those two positions fly off the board,
maybe corner as well. So, uh, you know, Jeremy Johnson,
(11:11):
I think it's more of a case of he plays
the right position. He's a really good player. Is he
the fourth best player in the draft? Probably not, but
a really good player alright. Moving on to cornerback here,
Sauce Gardner, I feel like a lot of the buzzes.
He had a really good workout and coming out of Indianapolis.
But we were on this podcast a couple of weeks ago.
You told me that cornerback is one of those positions
(11:32):
that's really dependent on a stop watch. And he ran
the four or five two and then the four four seven,
where then you're looking at another guy like Terek Woollin,
who was the fastest player at the Senior Bowl right
in terms of GPS data, and then he had a
blazing fast forty at Lucas Oil. So I'm not asking
you to compare the two players, but when you look
(11:53):
at two guys who are tall, long and rangey, how
do you go about evaluating their separate workouts knowing one
of them is clearly a lot faster than the other. Well,
and to be fair, the quote unquote official time for
Sauce Gardeners four four one, so you know, a lot
different than the unofficial times up n NFL network. So
(12:15):
for Sauce Gardner to go out there with his thirty
three and a half inch arms, his tall stature, to
go out there run a four for one, pretty pretty impressive.
And I think that's you know, it's gonna be hard
to see Sauce Gardner fall out of the top ten
picks because of that. Uh, not to mention his great
film and his just his career resume that put together,
um and I think with true Woolen, uh, you know,
(12:36):
he there. It's hard for guys when you are billed
as this track star, as this speed demon, it could
it could be tougher times for you to go out
there and consistently live up to that. But you know
what you mentioned the Senior Bowl twenty two point four
or five miles per hour, that's what they clocked him
at the fastest ever in the five years that they've
been tracking that at the Senior Bowl, goes to the
(12:58):
to the combine and rips off a four two six
forty yard dash. So for Tarik Will and still raw,
still growing in a lot of areas of the position.
But when you have a guy that's over two hunter
pounds six three, has length and has that type of speed,
you're gonna bet on that that that's that's the guy
that's gonna go somewhere on Day two, second or third round,
and you're gonna look to develop him at the cornerman position.
(13:19):
But I do think with Sauce Gardon are coming in
with the length that he has, the speed, I think
he locked himself in the cornerback one. For a lot
of teams in this draft. Who are other players on
defense regardless of position that if you were if you
are at a local establishment, let's just say you were
out to lunch, you're grabbing a sandwich, someone like Hey, Dane,
who are some of the guys that you think you
(13:40):
know really won the week on defense, not the guys
that we talked about. Who else is in that conversation, Well,
I think you Jordan Davis and what he did just
it kind of sucked all the air out of the
room and so there wasn't much room for everybody else
but Travis Jones. Uh, if George Davis was did not
say he didn't work out in Indie we'd be talking
a lot more about Travis Jones, the nose tackle from Yukon.
(14:02):
We talked about him at the Senior Bowl, how he dominated,
He showed up, overpowered, everyone showed quickness, nobody could block
him all week. He goes to the combine and I
thought he only helped himself further. For a guy that's
three twenty five pounds running a four nine two is
remarkable that the jumps were solid, twenty eight and a
half ver nine too broad and then seven three three
(14:23):
in in in the three cone, just a just an
outstanding numbers for comparison purposes. The league average for a
defensive tackle is seven point four zero, and he ran
a seven point three three at three pounds. So I
thought after the Senior Bowl Travis Jones had put himself
into that top fifty conversation. Would not be surprised at
all if he goes in the first round. Now that's
(14:45):
that's actually where I put him in my updated mock draft.
So Travis Jones a big winner. Um, you know, we
need to talk about some of these linebackers. I thought
Christian Harris from Alabama ran really well four four four
in the forty yard dash eleven foot in the broad
Just the outstanding numbers from him not too surprising considering
he was a high school corner who goes to Alabama
and transitions the linebacker Chad Muma from Wyoming, a guy
(15:09):
who is just you know, checked every box along throughout
the process. Four six three to forty yard dash, forty
in vert. He also let all linebackers with twenty seven
ms on the bench press, so, uh, several of these
linebackers did well. And then you know, we have to
mention some of the DB's Calif Barns are touting Palin Barnes. Uh.
He was my pick at the beginning of the week
(15:29):
for the fastest forty yard dash when you look his
track background, winning state titles as a junior and senior
in high school in the state of Texas. For him
to go out there on a four to three come
very very close to uh beating John Ross's four to
two record for the official forty yard dash times in
combine history. Uh, he came close. And you know that
(15:50):
speed shows up on tape, So I think that's gonna
be something that helps him throughout the process. And then
at safety. Uh, two guys, I I really have to
mention here Lewis, you know, it's just another Georgian defender
six to pounds. His ability to drive on the football,
you know, is something that really stands out with him
on film four three cents and forty eight match that
(16:13):
ring top ten among all defensive backs, better than a
lot of corners, uh, thirty six and a half inch vert.
And then he had the best broad jump among all
defensive players eleven foot one inch. Uh. He's been a
top fifty guy for me dating back to the summer,
and I think he's lived up to it in every
single way. Uh. He's gonna be a guy that's talked
about maybe the back half of round one, and if
(16:35):
he's still there in early day two, probably a guy
that Jets will be looking at. And then one other player,
small school guy. If you're a small schooler coming from
an FCS level, there's a little extra that you need
to show with the combine. Whether it's fair or not,
it's the truth. And for Zion McCullum from sam Houston
State to go out there at six two pounds, he
runs a four three three in the forty yard dash.
(16:57):
He jumped eleven feet in the broad thirty nine and
a half in the vert The most impressive numbers that
he put up short shuttle three nine four, just any anything,
if you come close to four even, it's remarkable. He
got under four three nine four and in in the
three cone, anything under seven seconds in the three cone
is an above average time. He got six for eight,
(17:20):
So the fastest three cone, the fastest short shuttle at
this year's combine. A good week at the Senior Bowl,
now an exceptional week and combine, we're gonna start talking
to more about Zion McCollum throughout the process and where
he might fit in this draft. All right, that was
a great answer, And you know, I'm trying to give
you a little bit of a breather just so you can,
you know, take a breath, because I'm gonna ask you
(17:41):
the same thing about offense. Who are some of those
guys that you think on offense really helped themselves, whether
that speed workout or whatever the case may be. Well,
looking at the receivers, Calvin Austin, Uh, you know coming in,
you know he's not he's not a big guy. We
know that that's you have to be comfortable with the
guy that's five seven. You never really gonna be bigger
than say one eighty. That's just that's his makeup, that's
(18:03):
who he is. But if you know, not every offense
is gonna have a role like that for someone that size.
But there's a role for uh, somebody with with his speed,
you know, to come in and run a four three
two uh explosive in the jumps, thirty nine vertu is
over eleven feet and abroad and then three cone. You know,
I just mentioned how anything under seven sections is is
(18:25):
an above average time. He was six six five in
the three cones. So Calvin Austin a third out of
Memphis track background, so it was expected that he would
run well, but I thought he even exceeded those expectations
with the way he showed up. I think he's a
he's a player that we're gonna be talking about possibly
on day two. Another guy who fits that uh kind
of that categories Christian Watson at the North Kota State
(18:46):
who we saw at the Senior Bowl. I still think
the route running is a little more raw than people
want to admit. But six four almost two pounds uh,
thirty two and a half inch arms, he went out there,
ran a fourth three six thirty eight and a half
inch vert. I think you had the best broad ject
eleven uh eleven two eleven four or something like that.
(19:07):
So Christian Watson helped himself. He's also in that Day
two mix is a guy who is a little more
raw than like I said, I think people want to
admit but when you have that athleticism guy that you
want to get your program and develop and bring along
at his own pace. So there's a couple of wide
receivers like those guys who stood out. You know, I
(19:27):
know that you often talk about guys who cemented you
know where they will be drafted. For example, you said
George Davis cemented himself as a top twenty pick. What
about a guy like Chris Olave who you expected to
run well? He ran really well. This is a wide
receiver class that feels like there is, you know, is
no universal number one guy. Not saying Chris Lave is
going to be that guy. But where do you see
(19:49):
now after the combine, where do you see Chris Olav
most likely being drafted In terms of arrange, I don't
know that what he did necessarily move the needle at all,
because I think Kris all I did exactly what he's
done in Ohio State the last four years. Uh. Play fast,
play technically proficient, and go out there and be productive. Uh.
That's exactly what he did at our house state. That's
(20:09):
exactly what he did the combine, writing a four three
nine official. I actually thought he'd be a little faster
his his unofficial times in the four twos. Uh, and
then it was adjusted to a four three nine. Um.
But I you know, I'm talked in to just uh
scouts that on the stands, because it's also important to
point out that teams are gonna use their own hand
times for these these workouts more so than these quote
(20:30):
unquote official times that the NFL post uh. And the
main reason for that is just so they have some
type of continuity between the pro days and the combine
when they're using their own hand times. So, but I
know he was talking to some Scotts. They had Crystal
Lovey and the low four threes, which I think makes
more sense for what he is. UM. But I think
when teams look at it and they try to, you know,
(20:51):
divide up these receivers and you know, try to stack
him in order, you're gonna look at a lava and yes,
I wish he gave you a little more after the catch.
He's not much of a tackle break her and you
just you don't see enough after the catch, especially compared
to his teammate Karrett Wilson. But if you're looking for
a guy who is going to be in the right
place at the right time when he's supposed to be
there as a rout runner, that's chrisal love A. And
(21:13):
he has the speed where you can't just sit on
his routes because he will make you pay. When teams
look at that and see a guy that is going
to step in from day one and be productive. Uh,
it's it's gonna be a lot of He's gonna have
a lot of potential suitors in the first round. So
I think he's gonna somewhere in the top picks. Uh.
And I think the combine just kind of confirmed. But
we already knew about it, alright. A couple more questions
(21:35):
for you. One guy we didn't talk about. I don't
want to say he made headlines, but something that was
talked about, at least nationally it seemed like, was Kyle
Hamilton's forty. Seemed like everybody in Indianapolis was running extremely fast,
especially like you just said, Sauce Gardner's unofficial times a
lot slower than his official time. But for a guy
like Kyle Hamilton's, well, what do you make of his
(21:57):
specifically his forty yard dash and how much is that
impact let's say, the rest of his workout and potentially
how teams view him now in this next month and
a half. Yeah, and I think we have to remember
he's six four two twenty, so this is a big,
big guy. Um. And so he ran a four or
five nine. Um. I admit I thought he'd run faster
than that, but still four or five nine is not
(22:18):
a bad time for a guy that size. And I
don't have the numbers yet, but I am eager to
find out what is flying twenty was? You know that? Uh?
That twenty to forty that final that second half of
this forty yard dash, Because for a guy that size,
it could be a little tough getting out of your stands,
getting started unwinding those long legs to uh to be
(22:38):
a long strider. Uh. So I think that that that
he didn't have a great start in those forty yard dashes,
but I would bet his flying twenty the final half
of that forty yard dash. I'm gonna put that and
compare that to some of these other safeties, and I'll
bet it's one of the fastest among the safety group.
Is that that's where it really shows that closing burst,
(22:59):
his ability need to go out there and looks you
look fluid during the positional drills. So I don't think
the needle moves that much on Kyle Hamilton's didn't necessarily
surpass expectations, but I don't think you've heard himself either.
One last question for you, and I do just want
to point out that how freaky of an athlete Dk
metcalf is, being a similar ish size, running like a
(23:20):
four three three or whatever he ran for What did
he run? He ran for three? Didn't he Yeah? He
was four threes four three freak freak athlete, just an
absolute monster. So I just want to point that out there.
But one last question for you, So now that the
combine is behind us, how much hay is in the
barn in terms of from where you stand where these
(23:40):
players are now ranked between now early March and late
April when the draft comes, how much movement can there
be and do you think will there be? Well? You know,
I think from first of all, I just want to
point out how I think it's kind of funny how
every year, Um, you know we hear people talk about
the onbine. It's that's not really gonna move people. It's
(24:02):
not really gonna It's not gonna be much fluctuation. Yeah
there is. NFL teams can tell you whatever they want,
Yeah there is. It's just it's human nature. You know,
you're gonna see these guys in person. You see these
guys move, It's gonna affect your how you how you
look at these players. It's gonna affect your decision making.
It's going to affect how you rank these players. Um,
So there will be fluctuation out of the combine between
(24:22):
now and the rest of the process. The biggest thing,
at least from my perspective, is understanding the medical part,
because there's several players that are coming off. You know,
Derek Stingley, for example, coming back from his foot injury.
He expects to be a full participant at l s
u S Pro Day in early April. Drake London, the
wide receiver from USC, coming off his injury. He's expected
(24:43):
to be a full participant at his prode Day in
early April. So I think the biggest thing now that
we're out of the combine is understanding medically where some
of these guys are and should that uh is that
a red flag? Is that's something that should affect where
they where they're drafted. Just getting a a better picture
for the medical situations for a lot of these guys.
(25:04):
That's the biggest thing for me. But the Pro days
are still going to be important, especially for the players
that decided not to run. A guy like Nakobe Dean
from Georgia who opted not to run waitless Pro Day.
Several several guys did that um and I honestly it
might end up being a mistakes of these players because
the track Lucas Oil Stadium, this is what a lot
of people don't know. The track. They put a new
(25:25):
turf uh last year the summer of at Lucas Oil Stadium.
We didn't have a combine last year one. So this
is the first time we've seen these guys work out
at the combine on this new track, and that was
that was a reason behind a lot of these fast times.
And so the players that decided not to work out
at the combine, not to run wait to the pro
(25:46):
day might end up looking like a mistake. One last
question for you. Have you had stakes since returning home
in Ohio? You got you gotta end where we started.
Yeah know, I I wish because steak sounds good again.
It's never a bad time to have a good juicy steak.
But no, it's been a lot of baby food and uh,
(26:10):
you know those those little puffs and things like that.
We're you know, work helping with the kids and things
like Now that I'm back in the fold here, Um,
I walked in the door and my wife just handed
me two babies. So uh, that's just that's just how
it is. But you know what, it's all right. We
gotta we gotta last month here to really get a
lot of work done and get this draft guide done.
(26:30):
So I'm excited. And that's how we wrap up the
Combine Preview edition. Jane, Thanks lout We'll talk to you
next week. Thanks
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