April 7, 2022 • 31 mins
It's Episode 10 of the Draft Preview Podcast as fill-in Host Eric Allen and Dane Brugler talk about a changed NFL Draft landscape (5:00) and which players are on the ascent (8:00). They shift the focus to the offensive line as Dane gives his perspective on how he scouts prospects in the trenches (11:05). Dane then dishes on some of the top linemen including NC State's Ikem Ekwonu (18:55), Mississippi State's Charles Cross (21:20) and Alabama's Evan Neal (22:10). They also discuss the nastiness of Northern Iowa T Trevor Penning (23:15) and the versatility of Boston College OL Zion Johnson (26:10). Lastly, the break down a Day 2 prospect in Central Michigan OL Bernhard Raimann (27:45) and the possibility of Iowa center Tyler Linderbaum dropping into the 2nd round (29:45).
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
The New York Cat are now on the board. Okay,
Jeff Darrell read this in New York has been one
of the greatest questions. Zack s Fifth Avenue ran that
one right now, the New York Cat Fleck. Welcome to
another episode of the NFL Draft Preview. Like always the Athletics,
(00:22):
Dane Brugler is here, but Ethan Greenberg is on a
surfboard or bodyboard right now. In a way, I'm Eric Allen.
These are big shoes to fill, but we're gonna try
to make due. Dane, how you doing today? I'm doing well.
How are you? Awesome? Awesome man? Hey listen, exciting news
(00:44):
in your world. We're taping on a Wednesday morning. What's
happening as far as the Brugler Draft Guide hopefully here
in twenty four hours, it'll be available for everybody and
just needed athletic subscription and it's uh, you get it
automatically to a pdf. Um so, yeah, four hundred reports.
(01:05):
We've got over six players in there, ranked all the
testing data. Uh, there's just a lot of a lot
of info. It's been it's been a crazy last the
last few months and the last ten months trying to
put this thing together, So I cannot wait to release
it into the wild and uh kind of just for
everybody to kind of digest everything and uh you know,
(01:27):
kind of start talking about everything that's in there. How
many years have you been doing this? Uh, it's been
over I mean my first one I ever did was
my dorm room freshman dorm room at Mount Union. Um.
But you know, really seriously probably doing it, you know,
over just over ten years now in terms of producing something,
uh some type of document and letting you know, sharing
(01:50):
it with people and that type of thing. So it's
we're going over ten years now. What were your friends
and family thinking when you were doing that in college
at Mount Union? Uh? Yeah, and it was definitely got
some weird looks. But now and and you know, my
family always been supportive of it. Um. I remember my
my parents, uh you know, helping me, you know, go
(02:12):
to go to Staples and get some printed and things
like that, because they just you know, they know, if
I spent this much time into something like this, I
must mean something. And honestly I mean that I use
it as a resume, you know, if I ever want,
if I wanted to get a job, I just I
sent up my draft book and said, listen, this is
this is my passion. This is if if I put
all this into a draft guy, you don't think about
what I could do for you type of thing. And so,
(02:34):
uh it's it's it's helped me along the way. But
you know it's thankfully uh you know, being at the
athletic they let me work on this year round, and
it's it's really just a labor and loaf all. We
are going to talk about the offensive line today, but
I'm so fascinated by all this. The draft bug, the itch,
when did he get it? And how has the coverage
(02:55):
maybe changed from your perspective since you've started doing this professionally.
Uh really, when I was thirteen, um, growing up in
twelve thirteen, growing up in northeast Ohio, and the Browns
came back to the league, they had the first pick overall,
and if there was so much intrigue, Tim Couch, Donovan McNabb,
(03:15):
Ricky Williams, you know who should they take at number
one to restart this franchise? And that just you know
that that created some type of uh just I was
enamored with the process. You know, why, what made a
good college player a great NFL player or you know,
just trying to figure these guys out and so and
over zealous hobby turned into a career for me. And
(03:38):
it's it's something that I've been very blessed to have
a lot of scouts and people around the league take
me under their wing, teach me um all different ways
to do things. You know, scouting is in evolving, just
like the game of football is always evolving, and so
you have to evolve with it. And so it's it's
definitely changed quite a bit in terms of how we
view these players. Uh you know just what the NFL
(04:00):
is looking for. Uh you know, scheme wise, player wise, Uh,
you know what type of skill set and so it's
it's a it's a moving target. And so it's the
moment you think you've got to figure it out, it's
the moment you probably need to move on because it's
it's something that is always evolving and changing and you
have to just try to keep up with it. It's
it's really a a fun thing that keeps you on
your toes. Man, I wonder how many of our listeners
(04:23):
remember Tim Coach. If only he had a better offensive line,
he might have been something. Uh, he was a good
player out of Kentucky, but that Brown's franchise when they
came back at just they were not ready to compete
with anybody. It's fascinating every draft. We talked about the
quarterbacks and the Dominos five quarterbacks taken in the first
round last year. Of course, we are three weeks away
(04:48):
from the start of the two thousand two NFL Draft
from Las Vegas, Dane. From your perspective, what's changing as
as we look ahead? Yeah, and this is the time
a year where teams are having guys come to the
facility for thirty visits. UM, a lot of zoom calls.
The zoom calls are unlimited. There's not a cap on
(05:09):
on what you can do there. So now at this point,
it's all about draft meetings. UM, you know, talking to
scouts that are on the road, they're coming back to
the facility because pro days are just about over. Uh
you know, there's a few workouts here and there, but
for the most part, uh, you know, scouts are they're
they're off the road, back of the facility and now
it's it's time to build the draft board. And most
(05:30):
teams already have something built and now it's more about
tweaking and figuring out how they want things, how exactly
they want to draft board to look like. And so
at this point it's it's trying to get some of
those questions answered. And that's what the thirty visits are.
For a lot of times, you know, UH teams will
be able to eliminate guys based off a thirty visits,
(05:50):
you know, that's that's where you have a chance to
meet a guy. You know, how is he messed with
your staff? How does you put them up xs and
os on the white board? More medical stuff, so the
guys more questions about those are the guys are bringing
in and in most cases for the thirty visits to
try and figure them out even more and helps you
as you as you put together this draft for it.
So a lot of things in motion. Um as teams
(06:12):
kind of finish up with a finishing touches on, you know,
this draft process. But yeah, like you mentioned three weeks,
we're almost that finish line. You and Ethan of now
this preview series for the last couple of years, and
I know you've already talked about it, but how I
advantageous was it for the Jets to have not just
the senior ball experience, but that interaction with the players
(06:33):
because they can really target who they're gonna bring in
their building because they've had so much experience with people.
So when you're talking about the thirty visits now, uh,
they can really be selective more than other teams, can't they,
no doubt. I mean, having that Senior Bawl experience, it's
it's so key because you understand whether or not a
(06:54):
player is going to be a culture fit for you. Um.
And you know, having your assistant coaches be hands on
with these eyes that is such a headstart for for
the Jets and just understanding who these guys are. Um.
And you know, we had a really good senior uh
Senior Bowl roster this year, so a lot of players
that I'm sure the Jets will be interested in. Uh.
They've got a better look and they understand, Okay, yeah
(07:15):
this guy culture fit here. Yeah, I think that there's
something there. Uh. Now on the field, yeah, I think
there's something there. And so you know, you just have
a better field and so when you get to the combine,
you just feel like you're so far ahead of some
of these other teams. Uh. And so for the Jets.
I think, you know, going into this draft with two
picks in the top ten, you've got multiple to You've
got five picks in the top top one hundreds, So
(07:37):
you know, there's a lot of opportunity here to get better,
and I think the Jets are positioned well to do
that with how the draft process is gone. I hope
people aren't getting too full with our appetizers because we
will get to the main course, which is the offensive line,
of course, but from pro days, just you studying what's
going on out there. How about a prospect or two
(07:58):
who may have helped themselves here the last few weeks
or over the course of the last month. Maybe Yeah, Well,
speaking of the Senior Bowl, Uh, you know, we we've
had a few guys that have kind of crushed every
level of of the process Senior Bowl combine, uh, and
then the pro Days. And Christian Watson for North Dakota State,
the wide receiver is one of those guys at the
(08:21):
Senior or at the Senior Bowl, looked really good. Uh.
You know, you weren't sure. He's never faced an FBS
opponent in his career at the North Dakota State, so
how would he look at the Senior Bowl against better competition,
he did a really nice job. Goes to the combine,
comes in over six four four three six and the
forty thirty eight and a half inch verse eleven four
broad jump. Just these remarkable numbers. And then at his
(08:42):
pro day, so he didn't do any of the shuttles
at the Combine, waited for his pro day. At his
pro day, six nine six in the three cone, which
is a remarkable time, especially for a guy that size
uh at four one nine uh in in the short shuttle,
and then eighteen and the bench press. So he was
a guy that again crushed every leve Bowl of the process.
And Watson has really helped himself, uh from the season.
(09:05):
Just the tape was good. Uh, there's still some you know,
his his raw in areas as a route runners. Still
he's improven in a few things. But when you have
a guy that's that size, can move like that, that
type of athlete that that's you're looking to draft. So
I think he submitted himself as a a top sixty,
top seventy five pick, maybe even can sneak in the
first round based off of how some of these teams
(09:26):
view the wide receiver position. And then on the defensive
side of the ball. Another Senior Bowl guy who's a
late ad. He was at the nflp A Collegiate Bowl.
UH had a great week. There gets a late add
to the Senior Bowl. Talking about Eric Johnson, defensive lineman
at a Missouri State. Now this is a he didn't
get invited to the combine and so he is my
highest graded combined snub in the Draft Guide. Six four
(09:49):
and a half two pounds. At his pro day, ran
a four eight six in the forty yard dash, which
is a just he is moving for a guy three
hundred pounds UH three owns terrific for that size, twenty
seven and a half inch vert UH eight eleven and abroad.
So Eric Johnson, he was a hard guy to block
all week during Senior Bowl practices. UH. And when you
(10:11):
put together a strong tape, when you put together the
testing data that he did, UH it just does he
need to be more consistent A few areas, yeah, in
terms of pad level, run recognition, things like that. But
he shows functional hand usage, he shows play range, he
shows he shows the ability to UH win with both
power and win with quickness. So Eric Johnson is one
(10:32):
of those players that has helped himself. Uh, not only
just the pro days, but throughout the entire process, and
his workout was just kind of a cherry on top.
So a lot of teams bringing in Eric Johnson just
to learn a little bit more. He's one of those
dirty visits for a lot of teams. Nice. Okay, let's
get to the offensive line finally, and thanks for your
patients here. But I got so many questions, just like
(10:52):
all our fans do. Uh, the anticipation is continues to build.
We're three three weeks away from the two thousand twenty
to NFL Draft. What are you looking for in a
general sense when you're studying the offensive alignment? And also
is it a harder group to study in terms of
all the position groups. It's definitely kind of like offensive
(11:15):
line because offensive line is a very technically skilled position.
I think that I've learned that that's how you have
to scout it as well. I mean you have to
really focus on, uh, you know, some of the all
the details because when you get to the NFL, all
these offensive linemen are big and strong, you know, they
most of them move fairly well. It's about the ones
(11:35):
that understand leverage, the ones that understand angles. Um. You
know that the technically refined offensive linemen, those are usually
the guys that stick. Um. And so when you're studying
these guys on tape, studying these guys in college, it's
important to you know, Okay, if they make a mistake,
what type of mistake is it. Is it a physical mistake?
Is it a mental mistake? Um? You know, and and
(11:56):
I think it's it's something where no matter how much
game evolves. You know, we talked about it earlier, offensive line. Uh,
you could always point to it as, Uh, if you
have success in the offensive line, how that correlates to
success and how that's what that means for your team.
And so every team is gonna be looking at the
offensive line. You want to get better. You want guys
that are mentally tough, because you have to play through
(12:19):
the pain. A lot of offensive lineman you're just getting
beat up play after play after play. Uh. So that's
that's something that is important to discout. And then something
else too. You know, we talk about all these positions
and how you could be a little specialized. You know,
if you're a receiver and you maybe you're you're smaller,
or maybe you're not as good as a route runner,
or maybe you have if you hands, but if you're fast,
(12:41):
there's gonna be interested in you. If you're an offensive lineman,
you can't really afford to be a specialist. You have
to be good at everything. Even if you are you know,
say Daniel fall Leley from Minnesota and your three nine pounds,
you're this mammoth, uh, you know, human being, you still
have to be technically sound with your hands. You still
have to be able to move a little bit in
order to play. So it's really the only position that
(13:03):
you can truly say that a lot of other positions
you can overcome it with maybe a specialized skill. Offensive
line you really have to be the best. You have
to be really, you have to be above average across
the board or you're you're going to get exposed. So
offensive line, it's a really fascinating position to evaluate. What's
the headline at the top of this group. Because we've
(13:25):
been talking for months about the edge group, how depth,
how deep it is, how you've got some star power
at the top, even though you might not have a
Bosta like player in the mix, but just a lot
of quality edge rushers. I think the offensive line. When
I look at a lot of people are talking about
the tackle position. M yeah, no question. And we're gonna
(13:47):
see a lot of these guys come off the board quickly. Uh,
talking about Ikya Kwanu from NCY State, Evan Neil Alabama,
Charles Cross, Mississippi Sea, and then Trevor Penning Northern Iowa.
All four are gonna be first round picks, and it's
just a matter of how high do they go. Uh,
you know who will be on the board at number
four if the Jets are possibly interested. We know Joe
Douglas loves his offensive lineman, and you know, the state
(14:09):
of the Jets offensive line is much much improved than
it was, uh you know, a couple of years ago,
even a year ago, but it's still an area that
I think they'd like to get better at. And so
you can't completely dismiss an offensive lineman there at number four,
especially if the right guy is there. Could that be
an Ikey Ikuan, who could be Evan Neil Um, you know,
either of those guys would make a ton of sense um.
(14:30):
And then at number ten, same type of deal if
if they go a different direction at number four. So
we're gonna see, especially in a draft like this where
there's a lot of different opinions on a lot of
the players this year from team to team. A lot
of teams we know they need offensive line, and so
we're gonna see these guys go early, so off a tackle.
I think there is a little bit of a drop
(14:51):
off after you get past those top four. Big fan
of Bernard Raymond from Central Michigan. He's more of a
late one, early two. A guy like Tyler Smith from
us UP is a day two pick who has a
lot of ability, but he's his discipline is not there.
Is this just a young player. It's gonna take time
for him to get up to that level. Um, And
you've got a few guys that you know can come
in and you know, compete for starting reps. Abraham Lucas
(15:14):
from Washington State, UM, you know, guys like that, and
on Day three, developmental guys. But it's really the top
four offensive lineman, offensive tackles that we're talking about. And
then on the interior. You know, this center class is
a lot of fun because you've got a guy at
the top of Tyler linder Bomb who is extremely, extremely talented,
but you know he's got really short arms, and he's
(15:34):
a center only, and so this is not gonna be
a great fit for every team. So where does Tyler
linder bomb fall in all of this? Could he fall
out of the first round. It's it's certainly possible when
you look at landing spots and where he might go.
And then this center class. My favorite part of it
is the third round. I've got four centers in that
third round range and that's kind of the sweet spot. Um,
(15:55):
you know, talking about Luke Fortner from Kentucky, talking about
Cole Stage from Chattanooga, Cam Jurgen's Nebraska, Dylan param Memphis.
These guys are all gonna be competing for starting reps
in the NFL pretty quickly. Uh, And I think they're
all gonna be in that day to range probably in
the third round, man, And that's fascinating. So we could
see a run on centers there in the third or
(16:18):
fourth round. You're saying, yeah, And I think that because
we we're gonna see a run because teams are gonna
want to get their guy that they don't want to
be the team with, you know, left without a chair.
I think we could even see it start in the
second round where we still start to see these centers
come off the board. Uh. So it's you know, it's
a position where you know, obviously you only need one starter,
(16:38):
um and so, but a lot of these guys have
position flex. Uh. You know, Cole Strange started that guard
mostly in in college, Dylan param was mostly a guard. Uh.
Luke Fortner has that guard center experience. So the guys
that have that position flex, it's just an extra bonus
for a lot of these teams looking to bolster the
interior of their offensive line. All right, so we're gonna
be looking in that late night two, or maybe possibly
(17:01):
early on day three of the NFL draft. Let me
ask you, let's go back a year to Elijah vera Tucker,
a guy that you scouted, a guy that Joe Douglas
moved up nine spots in the first round in order
to select him at number fourteen overall, what do you
make of him moving to right guard? Obviously, the Jets
just signed a pro bowler and Lanken Tomlinson he's gonna
(17:23):
stay at left guard. The Jets are moving a VT
across the line. I talked to Robert Salo about it, Dan,
He said, much being made about nothing they think that
he's gonna make this a seamless transition because he played
along all on that line at USC exactly. And I
(17:44):
think that was part of the appeal with a v
T when he was coming out as a prospect. Is
the position flux that he offers, and nobody knows better
than this Jet staff about whether or not he's capable
of of making that move and playing uh kind of
a mirror image of what did last year. So you know,
it's one of those things we get to trust the coaches, uh,
you know, because we uh you know that they have
(18:05):
the best idea of what they would he could do
at that new spot. I don't think they would have
made that signing unless they had a really good feeling
about it. So, you know, it's something that you know
when I scout offensive line that the most gifted offensive
lineman they're able to quickly reset and get back to
the strength of their bodies, and that's something that a
VT does really well. So I don't love guard right guard,
(18:27):
it doesn't matter. I think that's something that is going
to continue to carry him. We know he moves well,
but his ability to play with balance reset quickly. I
think that He'll be able to do that no matter
where he's lined up on the offensive line, and it's
just a matter of getting reps and getting better. And
so I think that's something that could really, uh you know,
really stabilize things for that Jets front. You have been
(18:49):
high on un States for months. Why. I think when
you watch him, it's just he gets you excited. You know,
when you watch a player on tape, you to get
excited about him, you know that that that tells you, uh,
you know, just how good he can be and how
good he is. And that's what you see with Ikey
Quantum as a run blocker. He has a chance to
(19:09):
be elite. He has explosiveness, uh, both in his movements
and then at contact. He loves to bury uh anybody
that's in his in his path. I mean more pancakes
than I hop on. On his tape is it's a
lot of fun to watch, and so it's a gap zone.
It doesn't matter he's amaeler Um in past pro. That
was the biggest question, you know, watching Ikey last summer
(19:32):
and saying, Okay, yeah, this this guy's got a lot
of talent, but you know he's past protection. That's that's
a big worry this. The steps that he made this
year in past protection were really really impressive. Now he's
still oversets time you know here here and there. Uh,
he'll be over aggressive at times in space, but the
balance to handwork. I thought he proved this year on
(19:54):
his tape that he could play outside be a tackle,
no question. But I do think run blocking that that's
kind of of his m O, that that's what he
does best us as he continues to grow and get older,
because it's still a young player. I mean he just
turned twenty one during the season. Um. You know, his
background was not as this you know, offensive lineman. Um.
He he didn't make varsity in high school until his
(20:16):
junior year. He was a late bloomer who was still
running the hunter meters as a junior. Uh in high school. Uh,
he was the anchor leg of their relay team at
the Providence Day down there in Charlotte. So, uh Iki
Pandu is a guy that's still discovering how good he
could be. And so the progression that he showed over
(20:37):
the last three years, Uh, the steps that he has
taken in pass pro tells me he's not done. He's
going to continue to get better and better, and that
explosive explosiveness that he brings to the field, that's what
I want on my football team. So I ki Kandu
one of the best players in this draft. He's my
number two player in the entire draft, and I think
he's gonna go pretty early. Al Right. Some people that
talked to think that we could see a run on
(20:59):
those edges real early, Like it's not out of the realm,
that one to three r ages we'll have to see.
But with that being said, let's go real teams specific here.
Because this is a New York Jets podcast. How do
you separate a quanto Evan Neil and Charles Cross from
Mississippi State. He's a guy a lot of people like
(21:21):
in terms of the New York Jets. Yeah, and with
Cross he is. I think it depends on what exactly
you're looking for at the offensive line positions style wise,
because with Charles Cross, he's not a power guy. That's
that's not that's not what he brings to the field.
But in terms of past protection, his hand his hand exchange,
and his movement patterns are both above average. I think
(21:44):
he processes things well. Um, he just he has a
really good understanding of how to use his hands, and
it's just really promising considering he's a retchter sophomore. I mean,
he's another really young player. Um. And so if you
can sacrifice a little bit of power for a guy
that you know is a above average pass blocker, then
you're really gonna like Charles Cross. And so I can
(22:05):
understand why Cross is really well liked across the league. UM.
With Evan Neil, I think he's kind of he's got
a little bit of everything that you want. I mean,
it's it's a it's fascinating to look at him and
you wonder where all that three forty pounds where where
is it? Because it's it's so he feels that his
frame out so well. Uh, he's just a big bone guy,
long player. Uh, he will fall off blocks here there
(22:28):
at times in the run game, but a guy that
he's just so effective because his his blend of size, athleticism, flexibility.
It's just really really unique for a guy that size.
So I really like how he reworks his feet into position. Uh.
He has hand exchange as well, so he can keep
rushers contained. Um, he looks like an immediate NFL starter.
(22:50):
A guy that's gonna be competing for Pro Bowls at
some point during his rookie contract. Where do you stand
on Northern I with Trevor Penning Well coaches like that
style or is he a flag waiting to happen on
the next level he gets after a day and we
know that and the Jets we're fortunate because theta opportunity
to see him up close down there in Mobile, Alabama.
(23:12):
With that being said, he feels like a guy that
might not fit in the Jets range if they stay
at four and ten, because then their next pick is
thirty five. And do you think that he probably falls
somewhere between that eleventh pick and thirty four. I wouldn't
be surprised at all if he goes top ten. Uh.
I think it's very possible, because again, this is a
draft class where, you know, and it's similar to the
(23:35):
the Edge conversation, a lot of teams are gonna look
at this and say, yeah, we don't we like Kyle
Hamilton's or you know, we like Devin Lloyd some of
these other you know, good players that are in this draft.
But we're gonna look, we're gonna shoot for a premium
position and so we're talking about edge rusher, we're talking
about offensive tackle, we're talking about corner. Uh, those premium
positions that there's talent in this draft, and so it
(23:56):
would not be surprised at all if we see a
run on offensive lineman in the top ten. We know
there's several teams, uh, you know, the Giants, We look
at the Seahawks. Uh, you know, we look at uh
you know, some of these other teams that we can
see trading into the top ten, moving up a few
spots to get one of these tackles. Uh. So you know,
I think if you know, Penning at ten, but there's
no reason why he shouldn't be considered there because, uh
(24:18):
you know he is. He a guy that needs some
fundamental work. Yeah, there's no question the on field discipline, Yeah,
he needs it tidied up a little bit, but coaches
love it. I mean, they would rather you be overly
aggressive and you just try to bring him back a
little bit as opposed to the opposite, where you know
you're trying to make him more aggressive. He's too passive.
You don't have to worry about that with Trevor Penning.
(24:39):
Uh So, yes, needs some more coaching but the power
that he brings, the physical presence, and he's a really
good athlete. No offensive lineman had a better ten yards
split or twenty yards split in the forty yard dash
at the at the NFL combined than Trevor Penning. So
he has that initial explosion that you're looking for, um,
and so there's a lot there's the selling point with
Trevor Penning is easy to see and you talk to him,
(25:01):
really smart guy. He'll tell you at any on any
given play based on the alignment with the right guard
is supposed to be doing. I mean, he is that
type of uh. It brings that type of intelligence to
the offensive line as well. So Trevor Penning, I think
is gonna be a target for a lot of teams
picking in the top half around one. That dude is
a maller. He loves to play the game and he
(25:21):
got a lot of attention for what he did off
the field watching that Sauce series on a bus trip
getting ready for a game. And the great part of
that story is that then he told reporters that, Hey,
I told my mom I did that, and then she
decided that she wanted to watch the series with me.
So Trevor Patty. He's the interesting character, but he loves
(25:44):
the game. He loves ball, and it's gonna be fascinated
to see where he winds up. Zion Johnson, I know
you love him. Uh in mobile, it was interesting. He
took some snaps at the center position, but he projects
more as a guard, right. He just wanted to show
people that, hey, listen, if I gotta switch over, I'm
more than willing to do that as well. Yeah, I
(26:05):
thought he held his own for a guy that's really
never played center before. Um, you know he played tackle
uh uh and that really was not his uh where
he was most comfortable. They moving back to guard and
he looked outstanding. And I think it's one of those
things where you start to run out of reasons why
this guy should not go in the top twenty picks.
(26:25):
You know, he's six three three, his athleticisms outstanding, uh,
thirty four inch arms, so he has the length, He's
got these big bear claw hands. Um. And another guy
that you talked to him and he's just he's razor sharp.
He's so so impressive when when you talk to him
and he understands his skill set, he understands his strengths. Um.
You know, his body controls above average. He's got the
(26:47):
power in his lower body where he's gonna drive defenders
off the ball. Um. So the combination of play strength,
of muscle twitch, his reaction skills, and not just as
a run blocker, but also as a ass blalker. This
guy is gonna be a decade long UH starter in
the NFL, probably a guard, but also be able to
kick inside the center and a pinch if you need
(27:08):
him to. Just it's just an easy player to like
in this draft. I'm a big fan of him. Real squatty,
real load to the ground, so he doesn't have to
worry about getting those pads down. It's like he's built
so low to the ground and he gets after people
very comfortable on the move. Um. And like you said,
it's so impressive in terms of what he brings UH
(27:30):
from a cerebral perspective, I wanted to ask you about this.
Let's end here. Top of the second round. Jets at
thirty five and thirty eight. Say they don't take an
offensive alignment at four and ten. If they stay at
four and ten, who might make sense. They're at the
top of the second round four team looking for an
offensive alignment at either the thirty five range or thirty eight. Uh.
(27:53):
Maybe Bernard Raymond from Central Michigan, who uh is you know,
one of the more fascinating stories in this draft because
he made the transition. But first of all, it was
from Austria where he's a wide receiver. Comes to the
States where you know, he played receiver tight end in
high school. Uh, goes to Central Michigan and he was
a tight end. He caught you know, twenty passes over
(28:15):
which as an eighteen to as in nineteen seasons, and
then in the midst of a pandemic, he makes the
transitional left tackle. So it's hard enough to make that transition,
but to also do it a lot of it on
your own. Where he told me he was you know,
taking clips and sending him to his coaches and they
were just you know, corresponding through text messages and videos
of how to get better at this new position. And
(28:36):
he started every game at left tackle the last two
years and he played it at a very high level.
So a guy that has size has ability. Um for
a guy that's so young at the position, he's an
older player because of just his journey. He will be
a twenty five year old rookie this year, but he's
still young in terms of the position. But his ability
to stay stay centered so we can mirror, so we
(28:58):
can counter his fletic reflexes. Uh, his strength in the
run game. UM. So he just has a crafty understanding
of how to use his body, how to use his
play strength. Um. And so it's just a really fun
guy to watch. And if he's still there at the
top of the second round. Uh, he's a perfect sixth
offensive lineman um as a rookie. And then you know,
(29:19):
you plug him you need to help out guard and
can help a tackle. He can help you out in
a lot of different spots. So I think he would
make some sense at that point. You gave us some
awesome insight on everything, But what jumped out to me
was the center position early on here during the pod.
Let's get back to lender Bomb real quickly. Is there
a chance, since you think that he's so specific in
(29:43):
terms of what kind of team is gonna pick him up,
is there a chance he could be there at the
top of the second round. It's possible, it really is,
And I think that, I mean, let's just take the
you know, thirty two teams eliminate all the teams that
don't that they don't need a center, So you know,
that cuts down a lot of teams, cut out all
the teams that don't run uh you know some semblance
(30:06):
of an outside zone type of scheme that that eliminates
some teams or some ye, some teams right there, eliminate
teams that just are not interested in drafting a center
in the first round. So all of a sudden, we're
down to three, four, maybe five teams maybe, and it
just comes down to, you know, do they feel the
Dallas Cowboys, do they feel comfortable taking a center there?
(30:26):
Or do they see the more value and adding another
receiver or they have a big needed guard, maybe they
go that direction. Um, And so I think that when
you do that exercise, it's it's really fascinating and you realize, wow, okay,
not really an ideal fit there. You know, the Bengals
a thirty one while they just signed Okay, they'll maybe
not there. So all of a sudden you're looking at
him and yeah, it is certainly possible the lender Bomb
(30:49):
could be available on the top of the second round,
which at that point the value is just enormous and
it would be really hard to say no to him
at that point in the draft. Um and so it's
Tyler linder Bomb, probably one of the wider variances in
terms of where he could be drafted, which really makes
him a wild card. On Draft weekend, Hey, cheeros to you.
We enjoyed it. Thanks for letting me fill in today.
(31:11):
Get a couple diet Mountain dews, because tomorrow is celebration day.
Your draft guide is going out the labor of love
that stouted. It started so many years ago in a
college dorm room. Man, it's come a long way, uh
you and Ethan but tearing it up here on the podcast.
(31:31):
Thanks for letting me fill in today now. Thanks you
can't wait to share it. And uh, you did a
pretty good job today, so you're good at this kind
of thing. Give way to the future in it. Thanks buddy,
The New York Cat are now on the board. Okay,
Jeff Darrell read this in New York has been one
of the greatest questions. Zack s Fifth Avenue ran that
one right now, the New York Cat Fleck. Welcome to
another episode of the NFL Draft Preview. Like always the Athletics,
(00:22):
Dane Brugler is here, but Ethan Greenberg is on a
surfboard or bodyboard right now. In a way, I'm Eric Allen.
These are big shoes to fill, but we're gonna try
to make due. Dane, how you doing today? I'm doing well.
How are you? Awesome? Awesome man? Hey listen, exciting news
(00:44):
in your world. We're taping on a Wednesday morning. What's
happening as far as the Brugler Draft Guide hopefully here
in twenty four hours, it'll be available for everybody and
just needed athletic subscription and it's uh, you get it
automatically to a pdf. Um so, yeah, four hundred reports.
(01:05):
We've got over six players in there, ranked all the
testing data. Uh, there's just a lot of a lot
of info. It's been it's been a crazy last the
last few months and the last ten months trying to
put this thing together, So I cannot wait to release
it into the wild and uh kind of just for
everybody to kind of digest everything and uh you know,
(01:27):
kind of start talking about everything that's in there. How
many years have you been doing this? Uh, it's been
over I mean my first one I ever did was
my dorm room freshman dorm room at Mount Union. Um.
But you know, really seriously probably doing it, you know,
over just over ten years now in terms of producing something,
uh some type of document and letting you know, sharing
(01:50):
it with people and that type of thing. So it's
we're going over ten years now. What were your friends
and family thinking when you were doing that in college
at Mount Union? Uh? Yeah, and it was definitely got
some weird looks. But now and and you know, my
family always been supportive of it. Um. I remember my
my parents, uh you know, helping me, you know, go
(02:12):
to go to Staples and get some printed and things
like that, because they just you know, they know, if
I spent this much time into something like this, I
must mean something. And honestly I mean that I use
it as a resume, you know, if I ever want,
if I wanted to get a job, I just I
sent up my draft book and said, listen, this is
this is my passion. This is if if I put
all this into a draft guy, you don't think about
what I could do for you type of thing. And so,
(02:34):
uh it's it's it's helped me along the way. But
you know it's thankfully uh you know, being at the
athletic they let me work on this year round, and
it's it's really just a labor and loaf all. We
are going to talk about the offensive line today, but
I'm so fascinated by all this. The draft bug, the itch,
when did he get it? And how has the coverage
(02:55):
maybe changed from your perspective since you've started doing this professionally.
Uh really, when I was thirteen, um, growing up in
twelve thirteen, growing up in northeast Ohio, and the Browns
came back to the league, they had the first pick overall,
and if there was so much intrigue, Tim Couch, Donovan McNabb,
(03:15):
Ricky Williams, you know who should they take at number
one to restart this franchise? And that just you know
that that created some type of uh just I was
enamored with the process. You know, why, what made a
good college player a great NFL player or you know,
just trying to figure these guys out and so and
over zealous hobby turned into a career for me. And
(03:38):
it's it's something that I've been very blessed to have
a lot of scouts and people around the league take
me under their wing, teach me um all different ways
to do things. You know, scouting is in evolving, just
like the game of football is always evolving, and so
you have to evolve with it. And so it's it's
definitely changed quite a bit in terms of how we
view these players. Uh you know just what the NFL
(04:00):
is looking for. Uh you know, scheme wise, player wise, Uh,
you know what type of skill set and so it's
it's a it's a moving target. And so it's the
moment you think you've got to figure it out, it's
the moment you probably need to move on because it's
it's something that is always evolving and changing and you
have to just try to keep up with it. It's
it's really a a fun thing that keeps you on
your toes. Man, I wonder how many of our listeners
(04:23):
remember Tim Coach. If only he had a better offensive line,
he might have been something. Uh, he was a good
player out of Kentucky, but that Brown's franchise when they
came back at just they were not ready to compete
with anybody. It's fascinating every draft. We talked about the
quarterbacks and the Dominos five quarterbacks taken in the first
round last year. Of course, we are three weeks away
(04:48):
from the start of the two thousand two NFL Draft
from Las Vegas, Dane. From your perspective, what's changing as
as we look ahead? Yeah, and this is the time
a year where teams are having guys come to the
facility for thirty visits. UM, a lot of zoom calls.
The zoom calls are unlimited. There's not a cap on
(05:09):
on what you can do there. So now at this point,
it's all about draft meetings. UM, you know, talking to
scouts that are on the road, they're coming back to
the facility because pro days are just about over. Uh
you know, there's a few workouts here and there, but
for the most part, uh, you know, scouts are they're
they're off the road, back of the facility and now
it's it's time to build the draft board. And most
(05:30):
teams already have something built and now it's more about
tweaking and figuring out how they want things, how exactly
they want to draft board to look like. And so
at this point it's it's trying to get some of
those questions answered. And that's what the thirty visits are.
For a lot of times, you know, UH teams will
be able to eliminate guys based off a thirty visits,
(05:50):
you know, that's that's where you have a chance to
meet a guy. You know, how is he messed with
your staff? How does you put them up xs and
os on the white board? More medical stuff, so the
guys more questions about those are the guys are bringing
in and in most cases for the thirty visits to
try and figure them out even more and helps you
as you as you put together this draft for it.
So a lot of things in motion. Um as teams
(06:12):
kind of finish up with a finishing touches on, you know,
this draft process. But yeah, like you mentioned three weeks,
we're almost that finish line. You and Ethan of now
this preview series for the last couple of years, and
I know you've already talked about it, but how I
advantageous was it for the Jets to have not just
the senior ball experience, but that interaction with the players
(06:33):
because they can really target who they're gonna bring in
their building because they've had so much experience with people.
So when you're talking about the thirty visits now, uh,
they can really be selective more than other teams, can't they,
no doubt. I mean, having that Senior Bawl experience, it's
it's so key because you understand whether or not a
(06:54):
player is going to be a culture fit for you. Um.
And you know, having your assistant coaches be hands on
with these eyes that is such a headstart for for
the Jets and just understanding who these guys are. Um.
And you know, we had a really good senior uh
Senior Bowl roster this year, so a lot of players
that I'm sure the Jets will be interested in. Uh.
They've got a better look and they understand, Okay, yeah
(07:15):
this guy culture fit here. Yeah, I think that there's
something there. Uh. Now on the field, yeah, I think
there's something there. And so you know, you just have
a better field and so when you get to the combine,
you just feel like you're so far ahead of some
of these other teams. Uh. And so for the Jets.
I think, you know, going into this draft with two
picks in the top ten, you've got multiple to You've
got five picks in the top top one hundreds, So
(07:37):
you know, there's a lot of opportunity here to get better,
and I think the Jets are positioned well to do
that with how the draft process is gone. I hope
people aren't getting too full with our appetizers because we
will get to the main course, which is the offensive line,
of course, but from pro days, just you studying what's
going on out there. How about a prospect or two
(07:58):
who may have helped themselves here the last few weeks
or over the course of the last month. Maybe Yeah, Well,
speaking of the Senior Bowl, Uh, you know, we we've
had a few guys that have kind of crushed every
level of of the process Senior Bowl combine, uh, and
then the pro Days. And Christian Watson for North Dakota State,
the wide receiver is one of those guys at the
(08:21):
Senior or at the Senior Bowl, looked really good. Uh.
You know, you weren't sure. He's never faced an FBS
opponent in his career at the North Dakota State, so
how would he look at the Senior Bowl against better competition,
he did a really nice job. Goes to the combine,
comes in over six four four three six and the
forty thirty eight and a half inch verse eleven four
broad jump. Just these remarkable numbers. And then at his
(08:42):
pro day, so he didn't do any of the shuttles
at the Combine, waited for his pro day. At his
pro day, six nine six in the three cone, which
is a remarkable time, especially for a guy that size
uh at four one nine uh in in the short shuttle,
and then eighteen and the bench press. So he was
a guy that again crushed every leve Bowl of the process.
And Watson has really helped himself, uh from the season.
(09:05):
Just the tape was good. Uh, there's still some you know,
his his raw in areas as a route runners. Still
he's improven in a few things. But when you have
a guy that's that size, can move like that, that
type of athlete that that's you're looking to draft. So
I think he submitted himself as a a top sixty,
top seventy five pick, maybe even can sneak in the
first round based off of how some of these teams
(09:26):
view the wide receiver position. And then on the defensive
side of the ball. Another Senior Bowl guy who's a
late ad. He was at the nflp A Collegiate Bowl.
UH had a great week. There gets a late add
to the Senior Bowl. Talking about Eric Johnson, defensive lineman
at a Missouri State. Now this is a he didn't
get invited to the combine and so he is my
highest graded combined snub in the Draft Guide. Six four
(09:49):
and a half two pounds. At his pro day, ran
a four eight six in the forty yard dash, which
is a just he is moving for a guy three
hundred pounds UH three owns terrific for that size, twenty
seven and a half inch vert UH eight eleven and abroad.
So Eric Johnson, he was a hard guy to block
all week during Senior Bowl practices. UH. And when you
(10:11):
put together a strong tape, when you put together the
testing data that he did, UH it just does he
need to be more consistent A few areas, yeah, in
terms of pad level, run recognition, things like that. But
he shows functional hand usage, he shows play range, he
shows he shows the ability to UH win with both
power and win with quickness. So Eric Johnson is one
(10:32):
of those players that has helped himself. Uh, not only
just the pro days, but throughout the entire process, and
his workout was just kind of a cherry on top.
So a lot of teams bringing in Eric Johnson just
to learn a little bit more. He's one of those
dirty visits for a lot of teams. Nice. Okay, let's
get to the offensive line finally, and thanks for your
patients here. But I got so many questions, just like
(10:52):
all our fans do. Uh, the anticipation is continues to build.
We're three three weeks away from the two thousand twenty
to NFL Draft. What are you looking for in a
general sense when you're studying the offensive alignment? And also
is it a harder group to study in terms of
all the position groups. It's definitely kind of like offensive
(11:15):
line because offensive line is a very technically skilled position.
I think that I've learned that that's how you have
to scout it as well. I mean you have to
really focus on, uh, you know, some of the all
the details because when you get to the NFL, all
these offensive linemen are big and strong, you know, they
most of them move fairly well. It's about the ones
(11:35):
that understand leverage, the ones that understand angles. Um. You
know that the technically refined offensive linemen, those are usually
the guys that stick. Um. And so when you're studying
these guys on tape, studying these guys in college, it's
important to you know, Okay, if they make a mistake,
what type of mistake is it. Is it a physical mistake?
Is it a mental mistake? Um? You know, and and
(11:56):
I think it's it's something where no matter how much
game evolves. You know, we talked about it earlier, offensive line. Uh,
you could always point to it as, Uh, if you
have success in the offensive line, how that correlates to
success and how that's what that means for your team.
And so every team is gonna be looking at the
offensive line. You want to get better. You want guys
that are mentally tough, because you have to play through
(12:19):
the pain. A lot of offensive lineman you're just getting
beat up play after play after play. Uh. So that's
that's something that is important to discout. And then something
else too. You know, we talk about all these positions
and how you could be a little specialized. You know,
if you're a receiver and you maybe you're you're smaller,
or maybe you're not as good as a route runner,
or maybe you have if you hands, but if you're fast,
(12:41):
there's gonna be interested in you. If you're an offensive lineman,
you can't really afford to be a specialist. You have
to be good at everything. Even if you are you know,
say Daniel fall Leley from Minnesota and your three nine pounds,
you're this mammoth, uh, you know, human being, you still
have to be technically sound with your hands. You still
have to be able to move a little bit in
order to play. So it's really the only position that
(13:03):
you can truly say that a lot of other positions
you can overcome it with maybe a specialized skill. Offensive
line you really have to be the best. You have
to be really, you have to be above average across
the board or you're you're going to get exposed. So
offensive line, it's a really fascinating position to evaluate. What's
the headline at the top of this group. Because we've
(13:25):
been talking for months about the edge group, how depth,
how deep it is, how you've got some star power
at the top, even though you might not have a
Bosta like player in the mix, but just a lot
of quality edge rushers. I think the offensive line. When
I look at a lot of people are talking about
the tackle position. M yeah, no question. And we're gonna
(13:47):
see a lot of these guys come off the board quickly. Uh,
talking about Ikya Kwanu from NCY State, Evan Neil Alabama,
Charles Cross, Mississippi Sea, and then Trevor Penning Northern Iowa.
All four are gonna be first round picks, and it's
just a matter of how high do they go. Uh,
you know who will be on the board at number
four if the Jets are possibly interested. We know Joe
Douglas loves his offensive lineman, and you know, the state
(14:09):
of the Jets offensive line is much much improved than
it was, uh you know, a couple of years ago,
even a year ago, but it's still an area that
I think they'd like to get better at. And so
you can't completely dismiss an offensive lineman there at number four,
especially if the right guy is there. Could that be
an Ikey Ikuan, who could be Evan Neil Um, you know,
either of those guys would make a ton of sense um.
(14:30):
And then at number ten, same type of deal if
if they go a different direction at number four. So
we're gonna see, especially in a draft like this where
there's a lot of different opinions on a lot of
the players this year from team to team. A lot
of teams we know they need offensive line, and so
we're gonna see these guys go early, so off a tackle.
I think there is a little bit of a drop
(14:51):
off after you get past those top four. Big fan
of Bernard Raymond from Central Michigan. He's more of a
late one, early two. A guy like Tyler Smith from
us UP is a day two pick who has a
lot of ability, but he's his discipline is not there.
Is this just a young player. It's gonna take time
for him to get up to that level. Um, And
you've got a few guys that you know can come
in and you know, compete for starting reps. Abraham Lucas
(15:14):
from Washington State, UM, you know, guys like that, and
on Day three, developmental guys. But it's really the top
four offensive lineman, offensive tackles that we're talking about. And
then on the interior. You know, this center class is
a lot of fun because you've got a guy at
the top of Tyler linder Bomb who is extremely, extremely talented,
but you know he's got really short arms, and he's
(15:34):
a center only, and so this is not gonna be
a great fit for every team. So where does Tyler
linder bomb fall in all of this? Could he fall
out of the first round. It's it's certainly possible when
you look at landing spots and where he might go.
And then this center class. My favorite part of it
is the third round. I've got four centers in that
third round range and that's kind of the sweet spot. Um,
(15:55):
you know, talking about Luke Fortner from Kentucky, talking about
Cole Stage from Chattanooga, Cam Jurgen's Nebraska, Dylan param Memphis.
These guys are all gonna be competing for starting reps
in the NFL pretty quickly. Uh, And I think they're
all gonna be in that day to range probably in
the third round, man, And that's fascinating. So we could
see a run on centers there in the third or
(16:18):
fourth round. You're saying, yeah, And I think that because
we we're gonna see a run because teams are gonna
want to get their guy that they don't want to
be the team with, you know, left without a chair.
I think we could even see it start in the
second round where we still start to see these centers
come off the board. Uh. So it's you know, it's
a position where you know, obviously you only need one starter,
(16:38):
um and so, but a lot of these guys have
position flex. Uh. You know, Cole Strange started that guard
mostly in in college, Dylan param was mostly a guard. Uh.
Luke Fortner has that guard center experience. So the guys
that have that position flex, it's just an extra bonus
for a lot of these teams looking to bolster the
interior of their offensive line. All right, so we're gonna
be looking in that late night two, or maybe possibly
(17:01):
early on day three of the NFL draft. Let me
ask you, let's go back a year to Elijah vera Tucker,
a guy that you scouted, a guy that Joe Douglas
moved up nine spots in the first round in order
to select him at number fourteen overall, what do you
make of him moving to right guard? Obviously, the Jets
just signed a pro bowler and Lanken Tomlinson he's gonna
(17:23):
stay at left guard. The Jets are moving a VT
across the line. I talked to Robert Salo about it, Dan,
He said, much being made about nothing they think that
he's gonna make this a seamless transition because he played
along all on that line at USC exactly. And I
(17:44):
think that was part of the appeal with a v
T when he was coming out as a prospect. Is
the position flux that he offers, and nobody knows better
than this Jet staff about whether or not he's capable
of of making that move and playing uh kind of
a mirror image of what did last year. So you know,
it's one of those things we get to trust the coaches, uh,
you know, because we uh you know that they have
(18:05):
the best idea of what they would he could do
at that new spot. I don't think they would have
made that signing unless they had a really good feeling
about it. So, you know, it's something that you know
when I scout offensive line that the most gifted offensive
lineman they're able to quickly reset and get back to
the strength of their bodies, and that's something that a
VT does really well. So I don't love guard right guard,
(18:27):
it doesn't matter. I think that's something that is going
to continue to carry him. We know he moves well,
but his ability to play with balance reset quickly. I
think that He'll be able to do that no matter
where he's lined up on the offensive line, and it's
just a matter of getting reps and getting better. And
so I think that's something that could really, uh you know,
really stabilize things for that Jets front. You have been
(18:49):
high on un States for months. Why. I think when
you watch him, it's just he gets you excited. You know,
when you watch a player on tape, you to get
excited about him, you know that that that tells you, uh,
you know, just how good he can be and how
good he is. And that's what you see with Ikey
Quantum as a run blocker. He has a chance to
(19:09):
be elite. He has explosiveness, uh, both in his movements
and then at contact. He loves to bury uh anybody
that's in his in his path. I mean more pancakes
than I hop on. On his tape is it's a
lot of fun to watch, and so it's a gap zone.
It doesn't matter he's amaeler Um in past pro. That
was the biggest question, you know, watching Ikey last summer
(19:32):
and saying, Okay, yeah, this this guy's got a lot
of talent, but you know he's past protection. That's that's
a big worry this. The steps that he made this
year in past protection were really really impressive. Now he's
still oversets time you know here here and there. Uh,
he'll be over aggressive at times in space, but the
balance to handwork. I thought he proved this year on
(19:54):
his tape that he could play outside be a tackle,
no question. But I do think run blocking that that's
kind of of his m O, that that's what he
does best us as he continues to grow and get older,
because it's still a young player. I mean he just
turned twenty one during the season. Um. You know, his
background was not as this you know, offensive lineman. Um.
He he didn't make varsity in high school until his
(20:16):
junior year. He was a late bloomer who was still
running the hunter meters as a junior. Uh in high school. Uh,
he was the anchor leg of their relay team at
the Providence Day down there in Charlotte. So, uh Iki
Pandu is a guy that's still discovering how good he
could be. And so the progression that he showed over
(20:37):
the last three years, Uh, the steps that he has
taken in pass pro tells me he's not done. He's
going to continue to get better and better, and that
explosive explosiveness that he brings to the field, that's what
I want on my football team. So I ki Kandu
one of the best players in this draft. He's my
number two player in the entire draft, and I think
he's gonna go pretty early. Al Right. Some people that
talked to think that we could see a run on
(20:59):
those edges real early, Like it's not out of the realm,
that one to three r ages we'll have to see.
But with that being said, let's go real teams specific here.
Because this is a New York Jets podcast. How do
you separate a quanto Evan Neil and Charles Cross from
Mississippi State. He's a guy a lot of people like
(21:21):
in terms of the New York Jets. Yeah, and with
Cross he is. I think it depends on what exactly
you're looking for at the offensive line positions style wise,
because with Charles Cross, he's not a power guy. That's
that's not that's not what he brings to the field.
But in terms of past protection, his hand his hand exchange,
and his movement patterns are both above average. I think
(21:44):
he processes things well. Um, he just he has a
really good understanding of how to use his hands, and
it's just really promising considering he's a retchter sophomore. I mean,
he's another really young player. Um. And so if you
can sacrifice a little bit of power for a guy
that you know is a above average pass blocker, then
you're really gonna like Charles Cross. And so I can
(22:05):
understand why Cross is really well liked across the league. UM.
With Evan Neil, I think he's kind of he's got
a little bit of everything that you want. I mean,
it's it's a it's fascinating to look at him and
you wonder where all that three forty pounds where where
is it? Because it's it's so he feels that his
frame out so well. Uh, he's just a big bone guy,
long player. Uh, he will fall off blocks here there
(22:28):
at times in the run game, but a guy that
he's just so effective because his his blend of size, athleticism, flexibility.
It's just really really unique for a guy that size.
So I really like how he reworks his feet into position. Uh.
He has hand exchange as well, so he can keep
rushers contained. Um, he looks like an immediate NFL starter.
(22:50):
A guy that's gonna be competing for Pro Bowls at
some point during his rookie contract. Where do you stand
on Northern I with Trevor Penning Well coaches like that
style or is he a flag waiting to happen on
the next level he gets after a day and we
know that and the Jets we're fortunate because theta opportunity
to see him up close down there in Mobile, Alabama.
(23:12):
With that being said, he feels like a guy that
might not fit in the Jets range if they stay
at four and ten, because then their next pick is
thirty five. And do you think that he probably falls
somewhere between that eleventh pick and thirty four. I wouldn't
be surprised at all if he goes top ten. Uh.
I think it's very possible, because again, this is a
draft class where, you know, and it's similar to the
(23:35):
the Edge conversation, a lot of teams are gonna look
at this and say, yeah, we don't we like Kyle
Hamilton's or you know, we like Devin Lloyd some of
these other you know, good players that are in this draft.
But we're gonna look, we're gonna shoot for a premium
position and so we're talking about edge rusher, we're talking
about offensive tackle, we're talking about corner. Uh, those premium
positions that there's talent in this draft, and so it
(23:56):
would not be surprised at all if we see a
run on offensive lineman in the top ten. We know
there's several teams, uh, you know, the Giants, We look
at the Seahawks. Uh, you know, we look at uh
you know, some of these other teams that we can
see trading into the top ten, moving up a few
spots to get one of these tackles. Uh. So you know,
I think if you know, Penning at ten, but there's
no reason why he shouldn't be considered there because, uh
(24:18):
you know he is. He a guy that needs some
fundamental work. Yeah, there's no question the on field discipline, Yeah,
he needs it tidied up a little bit, but coaches
love it. I mean, they would rather you be overly
aggressive and you just try to bring him back a
little bit as opposed to the opposite, where you know
you're trying to make him more aggressive. He's too passive.
You don't have to worry about that with Trevor Penning.
(24:39):
Uh So, yes, needs some more coaching but the power
that he brings, the physical presence, and he's a really
good athlete. No offensive lineman had a better ten yards
split or twenty yards split in the forty yard dash
at the at the NFL combined than Trevor Penning. So
he has that initial explosion that you're looking for, um,
and so there's a lot there's the selling point with
Trevor Penning is easy to see and you talk to him,
(25:01):
really smart guy. He'll tell you at any on any
given play based on the alignment with the right guard
is supposed to be doing. I mean, he is that
type of uh. It brings that type of intelligence to
the offensive line as well. So Trevor Penning, I think
is gonna be a target for a lot of teams
picking in the top half around one. That dude is
a maller. He loves to play the game and he
(25:21):
got a lot of attention for what he did off
the field watching that Sauce series on a bus trip
getting ready for a game. And the great part of
that story is that then he told reporters that, Hey,
I told my mom I did that, and then she
decided that she wanted to watch the series with me.
So Trevor Patty. He's the interesting character, but he loves
(25:44):
the game. He loves ball, and it's gonna be fascinated
to see where he winds up. Zion Johnson, I know
you love him. Uh in mobile, it was interesting. He
took some snaps at the center position, but he projects
more as a guard, right. He just wanted to show
people that, hey, listen, if I gotta switch over, I'm
more than willing to do that as well. Yeah, I
(26:05):
thought he held his own for a guy that's really
never played center before. Um, you know he played tackle
uh uh and that really was not his uh where
he was most comfortable. They moving back to guard and
he looked outstanding. And I think it's one of those
things where you start to run out of reasons why
this guy should not go in the top twenty picks.
(26:25):
You know, he's six three three, his athleticisms outstanding, uh,
thirty four inch arms, so he has the length, He's
got these big bear claw hands. Um. And another guy
that you talked to him and he's just he's razor sharp.
He's so so impressive when when you talk to him
and he understands his skill set, he understands his strengths. Um.
You know, his body controls above average. He's got the
(26:47):
power in his lower body where he's gonna drive defenders
off the ball. Um. So the combination of play strength,
of muscle twitch, his reaction skills, and not just as
a run blocker, but also as a ass blalker. This
guy is gonna be a decade long UH starter in
the NFL, probably a guard, but also be able to
kick inside the center and a pinch if you need
(27:08):
him to. Just it's just an easy player to like
in this draft. I'm a big fan of him. Real squatty,
real load to the ground, so he doesn't have to
worry about getting those pads down. It's like he's built
so low to the ground and he gets after people
very comfortable on the move. Um. And like you said,
it's so impressive in terms of what he brings UH
(27:30):
from a cerebral perspective, I wanted to ask you about this.
Let's end here. Top of the second round. Jets at
thirty five and thirty eight. Say they don't take an
offensive alignment at four and ten. If they stay at
four and ten, who might make sense. They're at the
top of the second round four team looking for an
offensive alignment at either the thirty five range or thirty eight. Uh.
(27:53):
Maybe Bernard Raymond from Central Michigan, who uh is you know,
one of the more fascinating stories in this draft because
he made the transition. But first of all, it was
from Austria where he's a wide receiver. Comes to the
States where you know, he played receiver tight end in
high school. Uh, goes to Central Michigan and he was
a tight end. He caught you know, twenty passes over
(28:15):
which as an eighteen to as in nineteen seasons, and
then in the midst of a pandemic, he makes the
transitional left tackle. So it's hard enough to make that transition,
but to also do it a lot of it on
your own. Where he told me he was you know,
taking clips and sending him to his coaches and they
were just you know, corresponding through text messages and videos
of how to get better at this new position. And
(28:36):
he started every game at left tackle the last two
years and he played it at a very high level.
So a guy that has size has ability. Um for
a guy that's so young at the position, he's an
older player because of just his journey. He will be
a twenty five year old rookie this year, but he's
still young in terms of the position. But his ability
to stay stay centered so we can mirror, so we
(28:58):
can counter his fletic reflexes. Uh, his strength in the
run game. UM. So he just has a crafty understanding
of how to use his body, how to use his
play strength. Um. And so it's just a really fun
guy to watch. And if he's still there at the
top of the second round. Uh, he's a perfect sixth
offensive lineman um as a rookie. And then you know,
(29:19):
you plug him you need to help out guard and
can help a tackle. He can help you out in
a lot of different spots. So I think he would
make some sense at that point. You gave us some
awesome insight on everything, But what jumped out to me
was the center position early on here during the pod.
Let's get back to lender Bomb real quickly. Is there
a chance, since you think that he's so specific in
(29:43):
terms of what kind of team is gonna pick him up,
is there a chance he could be there at the
top of the second round. It's possible, it really is,
And I think that, I mean, let's just take the
you know, thirty two teams eliminate all the teams that
don't that they don't need a center, So you know,
that cuts down a lot of teams, cut out all
the teams that don't run uh you know some semblance
(30:06):
of an outside zone type of scheme that that eliminates
some teams or some ye, some teams right there, eliminate
teams that just are not interested in drafting a center
in the first round. So all of a sudden, we're
down to three, four, maybe five teams maybe, and it
just comes down to, you know, do they feel the
Dallas Cowboys, do they feel comfortable taking a center there?
(30:26):
Or do they see the more value and adding another
receiver or they have a big needed guard, maybe they
go that direction. Um, And so I think that when
you do that exercise, it's it's really fascinating and you realize, wow, okay,
not really an ideal fit there. You know, the Bengals
a thirty one while they just signed Okay, they'll maybe
not there. So all of a sudden you're looking at
him and yeah, it is certainly possible the lender Bomb
(30:49):
could be available on the top of the second round,
which at that point the value is just enormous and
it would be really hard to say no to him
at that point in the draft. Um and so it's
Tyler linder Bomb, probably one of the wider variances in
terms of where he could be drafted, which really makes
him a wild card. On Draft weekend, Hey, cheeros to you.
We enjoyed it. Thanks for letting me fill in today.
(31:11):
Get a couple diet Mountain dews, because tomorrow is celebration day.
Your draft guide is going out the labor of love
that stouted. It started so many years ago in a
college dorm room. Man, it's come a long way, uh
you and Ethan but tearing it up here on the podcast.
(31:31):
Thanks for letting me fill in today now. Thanks you
can't wait to share it. And uh, you did a
pretty good job today, so you're good at this kind
of thing. Give way to the future in it. Thanks buddy,
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