August 5, 2025 • 44 mins
We welcome Hek’ma Harrison to Mick Shots, joining Bill at The Star and Mickey still from training camp and Everson to join on Thursday, getting everyone ready for Tuesday’s scrimmage against the Rams and sounding off on all things Micah
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Speaker 1 (00:03):
The following is a production of Dallas Cowboys dot Com
and the Dallas Cowboys Football Club.
Speaker 2 (00:09):
Cowboys, This is mick Shots, streaming live on Dallascowboys dot Com.
Speaker 3 (00:17):
And the official Dallas Cowboys apt.
Speaker 4 (00:20):
Now Here are Bill Jones, Hecma Harrison, Everson Wolves, and
Mickey Spagnola.
Speaker 5 (00:30):
And welcome to a Tuesday edition of mix Shots back
in the SWBC podcast studio at the Star in Frisco.
You got Bill Jones and you got give him heck
Ma Harrison making his Mixed Shots debut.
Speaker 6 (00:47):
Hello, heck Ma Hey, what's going on? Bill?
Speaker 5 (00:49):
Hey?
Speaker 3 (00:50):
And uh?
Speaker 5 (00:50):
And in Oxnard, California're lucky there there is Mickey Spagnola
at the corner of Ventura and Vineyard. Yes, for day
number seventeen of Cowboys training Camp. Mickey, it looks like
there is no marine layer because the sun is shining
on your forehead.
Speaker 3 (01:10):
Yes.
Speaker 4 (01:11):
Absolutely, it's another gorgeous beautiful day in Oxnard, California, and
it's already warmed up, so it's going to be a
really nice day this early in the morning. If the
sun is already shining brightly.
Speaker 5 (01:26):
And Hekma, you know that this is a special day
in Oxnard it is the day we have circled on
the calendar ever since it was announced that Sean mcvay's
Los Angeles Rams are headed to Oxnard. And this is
the one joint practice of this training camp.
Speaker 6 (01:45):
No, I love it.
Speaker 7 (01:46):
I look forward to it because in years past you
always got the fights, and they.
Speaker 6 (01:53):
Have been some of those sideline clearing brawls.
Speaker 5 (01:57):
I mean, that's all I had forgotten. And I wasn't
there when they had the one ten years ago when
Jeff Fisher was a head coach, But I saw someone
posted the video of it this morning, and I had
forgotten that.
Speaker 6 (02:09):
It was like, here's a.
Speaker 5 (02:10):
Brawl breaking out over here and fisticuffs over there. Then
we wind up against the fence where the fans were.
Speaker 7 (02:17):
It gets contentious, and you know, I love the way
that coach Schottenheimer has kind of put his foot down
with the team as far as the fighting is concerned.
Speaker 6 (02:24):
Good luck today.
Speaker 5 (02:25):
Though that's right now you don't have Jeff Fisher on
the other side. But Mickey, Mickey, give us the give
us the layout of what's going on, because there is
no Brian Schottenheimer press conference at one o'clock Dallas time
like there has been he's going to do it after
practice today. So what's the schedule. When do the Rams
arrive at Oxnard?
Speaker 4 (02:47):
Well, I would imagine, so if the practice starts at
two o'clock out here, you know they'll get in here
between one and two. I noticed in the parking lot
they already have coined coned off some parking spots for
the RAMS executives. So that's a start, and then we'll
(03:12):
see just how soon the guys get on the field
if that two hour window includes the stretch and all
the other stuff that goes on before practice. But remember
both teams still are under the two hour jurisdiction of
the CBA, so there's no extra time.
Speaker 3 (03:32):
I am assuming.
Speaker 4 (03:34):
Also, since the NFL officials were here yesterday for the
practice and we had the little meet and greet and
the video that the players get during training camp on
the new rules, that they're going to remain here today.
So maybe that will encourage some self decorum during practice
(04:00):
and not allow this thing to get out of hand
and get to chippy. What they need to do is
when they have these NFL officials here for the scrimmages,
they need to allow if things get carried away that
guys get fined for fighting or they get thrown out
of the scrimmage, and that'll slow things down. Now, Bill,
(04:21):
if you saw the video of what happened, and it
was ten years ago, I said, I guessed earlier today
it was like seven or eight, so I was a
little short there. But the funny thing that took place,
And remember, you got the offense, like the Cowboys offense
(04:41):
against the Rams defense on the field closest to the houses,
and then the opposite on the field closest to the bleachers.
And during the practice the field, the fight broke out
between the Cowboy defense and the Rams offense. So the
Cowboys offense was on the firefield and they were practicing
(05:03):
goal line. And I don't know if you were here
or you remember this, but the Cowboys were at the
line of scrimmage from like the one yard line, and
the Rams defense was, you know, in the end zone whatever,
and Romo was about ready to bark his signals when
the fight broke out, and ten of the eleven Rams
(05:26):
defenders ran over to where the fight was. The Cowboys
stayed in formation, and I think it was their veteran
linebacker at that time, gosh I can't remember the guy's name.
He stayed on the field and Romo called the signals,
(05:47):
ran a quarterback sneak into the end zone and spiked
the ball while everybody was fighting on the other field.
Speaker 5 (05:56):
I don't think i've heard it was hilarious. I don't
think i've heard that story before. Where the Rams defense
came from the other field. It was like it's like
in baseball where the bullpen it comes out when there's
a fight in a baseball game. They've ran all the
way over to the other field to join in.
Speaker 3 (06:15):
It was like the charge of the light.
Speaker 4 (06:17):
It was like the charge of the light brigade, right,
and it was hilarious. So a bunch of us that
were on that field covering what was going on, we
started running over there, uh to see right, and somebody
in Cowboy security had their hands up, Get back, get back,
and it's like, do you think I'm foolish enough to
get too close to have a helmet hit me in
(06:39):
the head. That was even further funny of what was
taking place. And then the fight broke out along the
fence and the fans started throwing punches at the players.
Speaker 6 (06:50):
Yeah, I love Cowboy fans.
Speaker 4 (06:54):
Hey Mick, I had a question and it wasn't all
Cowboy fans either, THEO Yeah, of course.
Speaker 5 (07:01):
It was the Saint Louis Rams back then, right.
Speaker 7 (07:03):
No, that's ye back in there. Yeah, yeah, Mickey. My
question that I had for you was in Coach Schottenheimer's
interview yesterday. He talked about it being more of a
team atmosphere versus seven on seven and one v one.
What was your opinion of that when you when you
heard him talk about, you know, look at being more
of a scrimmage atmosphere.
Speaker 3 (07:23):
Well, they they.
Speaker 4 (07:26):
I think, you know, he's about eliminated nine on seven
and seven on seven from practices here. Okay, And as
he points out, when you play a game, it's eleven
on eleven, so we're practicing eleven on eleven. But they
did have a seven on seven session, I think the
(07:46):
last two of the last three days, and I think
that was in preparation. If Sean McVeigh wanted to do
seven on seven, they would have a seven on seven period,
which is the most unfair drill for the defense that
has to cover one on one the entire football field
(08:08):
and the quarterback has the time of day to throw
the ball right so it's not like playing flag football
when it's seven on seven or you know what they
do in high school. It's the most unfair drill you've
ever seen. So we'll see if they end up doing that,
but I would imagine it's going to be a lot
(08:28):
of team one other thing, since you know, we're here
early in the morning and I heard this had been
going on, but Micah Parsons was actually doing his conditioning
on the field with the Cowboys strength and conditioning members
of the strength and condition I think Kendall Smith was
(08:49):
out there kind of monitoring what he was doing. So
if nothing else, maybe he'll get himself in somewhat condition
that when this thing comes to a head an end,
that'll be a little get.
Speaker 3 (09:06):
Closer to playing football.
Speaker 4 (09:08):
But again, if you think about it, he hasn't been
in pads since January fifth, I think that was the
date of the last game, so there's no way if
he signs like the week of the season opener, that
he's going to play in that first game. I think
the trainers would really push back against doing that and
(09:30):
getting the chance of him suffering some sort of soft
tissue injury without any actual practice has taken place.
Speaker 3 (09:37):
Beforehand.
Speaker 5 (09:39):
All right, as we get started here and by the
way throughout the season and on our next gathering on Thursday,
I assume Everson Wallas will be joining less. Okay, but
as we kick things off here with our new team here,
let's welcome in our new teammate Mickey and Hecma. Harrison
and Heckma give us and just your thoughts. What you've
(10:02):
been observing in the last couple of weeks training camp
and what strikes you, what you what you're from out there?
Speaker 7 (10:09):
You know what, Bill number one, The music is loud.
That's one thing that I've observed from practice that the
music is booming at all times. I love the tempo.
I love the tempo that Coach Schattenhamers has implemented some
of the young guys getting opportunities some of you know.
I came in immediately wanting to see the left tackle battles,
the defensive line battles, and I love to hear him
(10:32):
talk about the competition aspect of it. And so you know,
for me, George Pickens and the way that he's picked
up this offense right away is just been like the
if I could say, like stars all around for him
and the way that he's adapted to the new team.
But also, you know, I just feel as though guys
like Mars lea Foul and you wanted to see him
(10:52):
make that jump, to see that speed component still be
there for him in his linebacker. I know, you bring
in sanm Born, you bring in Murray, you bring guys
like that that you're excited about. This been onfuse Eberflus's staff,
But man, you got a young linebacker and Leah Foul
that I really enjoy seeing him in the way that
he is maturing. You know, look, all right, guard is
(11:14):
really when it comes down to today's practice, I want
to see him personally. I want to make sure that
he is going to be gained ready and all the
reps that he's gotten so far. So look, it's a
lot of things to be exciting excited about, Bill, but
I'm tempering that by today's practice and what I'm going
to see on Saturday in the preseason.
Speaker 5 (11:34):
YEP, I agree with you, And you know, Mickey Merris,
Leafoul is a guy that on several occasions, unsolicited or
or when Brian Schottenneimer is asked, who are guys that
stand out? And Leah Foul is one of the guys
that usually is at the top of his list.
Speaker 4 (11:54):
Yeah, and some of the other linebackers got more of
an opportunity last week when Kenneth Murray was I guess
it was I think he missed about a week here.
Speaker 3 (12:05):
He went back for the birth of his child.
Speaker 4 (12:08):
That's important, and so Leon file Leophile got increased snaps,
and so did Damon Clark.
Speaker 3 (12:16):
And Damon's kind of been.
Speaker 4 (12:18):
A you know, kind of a everybody's forgotten about him
because he barely played last year after starting the year
before and leading the team in tackles by the way. Uh.
So he got increased snaps with Murray Uh missing, So
that was good to see him kind of getting back
(12:38):
to what we saw from him previously. And for me,
the guy I'm excited to see uh not only in
the scrimmage, but for and I'm sure it's going to
be uh in the in the preseason game. As Jack
Sanborn kind of an undersized guy playing middle linebacker. I
think that Uh, Schottenheimer kind of compared him, or he's
(13:03):
hoping he can compare him to Sean Lee. Maybe not
the biggest middle linebacker or the fastest middle linebacker, but
hopefully the smartest middle linebacker, that he diagnoses things as
quickly as Lee did, and that he can hold down
that position. Somewhat undersized, but you know, if you think
(13:24):
about it, Eric Kendricks last year was undersized and he
did just fine. But I want to see him, especially
Saturday when they've got a tackle. You know, here, they're
still thumping up, and I'm sure that's what they want
them to do here. And the thumping up rule I
think applied to everybody but Malie Hooker because something got
(13:48):
in his mind. I talked to him about it yesterday
and he laughed. I said, who told you this was
tackle football? Because the other day he was hitting guys
left and right and putting him on the ground right.
He said, well, sometimes you just run into something, you know.
Speaker 3 (14:05):
I didn't mean it.
Speaker 4 (14:06):
But he's had he's had a really good training camp
so far.
Speaker 3 (14:11):
And I forgot about this.
Speaker 4 (14:13):
So he knows Iberflus's system because they were together four
years with the Colts, so he had a head start
on understanding what Eberflus is asking for in his system.
And he was the one guy, along with probably Sanborn,
that understand the inner workings of Eberflus's system.
Speaker 5 (14:39):
Detroit. Hooker was a first round draft pick fifteenth over
all of the Colts in twenty seventeen, which was the
year before Iberflus went there as the defensive coordinator. All right,
we're just getting started here. And by the way, on
Jack Sanborne, one other note on him, Mickey, you'll recall
what Matt eberflu said about him. One of the biggest
things that has happened with Sam Born, he feels like,
(15:02):
is how his body has changed in the work that
he's done, making himself more athletic and so and and
he's been running with the ones as a middle linebacker
basically throughout camp from day one. And when the when
Murray was there the first week of camp, it was
Samborne and Murray lining up side by side. By the way,
real quick before we go to a break, Mickey was
(15:24):
was Murray uh practicing yesterday? Because on Sunday or whenever
he went over day or Saturday, when he came back,
he was off to the side. It was back to
a ramp up period for him. He had missed so
much time.
Speaker 4 (15:38):
He was back in team eleven on eleven yesterday. Okay,
didn't it looked like he missed anything either.
Speaker 5 (15:45):
By way, he's a he's a physical freak. That's right. Okay,
we continue with more mix shots. In just a Moment
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(18:30):
com slash star Mickey. I could just see his chest
cut kind of bowed out when I said, like, Mickey Spagnola.
Speaker 6 (18:38):
Is that in the is that.
Speaker 5 (18:40):
That was an ad lib? Okay, that's one of the requirements.
That's one of the requirements of being on Mixed Shots.
At times you have to build up Mickey's ego.
Speaker 7 (18:50):
Oh well, the show's named after that, all right, sure, exactly,
of course, I got you.
Speaker 5 (18:55):
That's right, all right?
Speaker 3 (18:56):
You know what, just to don't you forget.
Speaker 5 (18:58):
It just occurred to me in the break and talking
with Hekma here that the Micah trade request came after
we were last had an episode of Mixed Shots. We
were on at eleven o'clock Dallas time, nine o'clock California
time on Friday, and heckma, it was going to be
(19:22):
a great leisurely day for me. It was, really it
was because there was no practice on Friday. In fact,
I was dressed as I am and I just had
jim shorts on and a T shirt. My CBS eleven
responsibilities weren't until later in the day okay, and they
were making a couple of players available, George Pickens and
(19:43):
kyer Elam, So we were going to shoot that in
the morning and then we go back to the hotel,
find a spot at the harbor to do our live
shot from whatever, and right and right in the middle
of the kyer Elam press conference, Micah Parson excited to
hit send oh Man and it turned into the busiest
(20:06):
day for us at camp. What was your reaction, hekma
after seeing that and need fallout from it in the
last four days since.
Speaker 7 (20:15):
Bill Unfortunately, I am used to the posturing at this
point when it comes down to Cowboys stars wanting new contracts,
but I didn't expect that. Obviously, I didn't expect them
to request the trade. But again it's one of those
things that for me, I just felt like this. You know,
obviously you can you can submit whatever you want. The
organization is not going to act on that, and I
(20:36):
think you get to the point, as somewhat a reserver
of the of the game that you get a little
tired of it always being this time of year where
you are fighting with superstars on their contracts, and to
even hear Mickey insinuate that maybe there's a situation where
Micah wouldn't play on September the fourth. I mean, my
stomach turned. You didn't hear it, but it happened, right,
(20:59):
because that's the last thing that I want to hear,
his last thing I want to be a part of,
because you know how badly you need your superstar player.
And I think that you know, in Micah's defense, if
it's true, he's been talking about that he wanted to
do this early, he didn't want to miss any time.
Speaker 6 (21:14):
He wanted to get this done early.
Speaker 7 (21:16):
And I really just think and ask myself, like, if
you had gotten the deal done early, would that have
been beneficial to him? Would you still be in a
situation today where you feel like, hey, you got one
of the best star linebackers in the NFL that's being
drastically overpaid.
Speaker 5 (21:32):
Yeah, And I just can't see it getting to that
point where he's not going to be lining up on
September fourth against Philadelphia. Mickey, we haven't had a chance
to hear your observations of what happened then on Friday,
and then Jerry's sixteen plus minute meeting with the media
after practice on Saturday, what's your take on it all?
Speaker 4 (21:57):
When I first heard it, stay my bit eating heart. Seriously,
we went to the book of agent negotiations, and when
you hit a stalemate and you got no leverage whatsoever,
and your guys under contract, you say I'm demanding a trade.
And I'm sure Micah didn't write that dissertation, right. That
(22:22):
came right from the agent. I guarantee you, and he
just signed, and he just signed off on it. You know,
it's the perfunctory I demand a trade. I don't want
to be here anymore. They're disrespecting me. And then he's
at practice the next day, and he's at practice on
Sunday and he's on practice. There was no practice Sunday.
(22:46):
He's at practice on Monday, and this morning he's out
there working with the with the strength and conditioning coaches,
trying to get his conditioning in. That doesn't sound like
a guy that doesn't want to be here, right. So
the whole thing it's a hoax. And as you saw
from Jerry, he could give a flip if he demanded
(23:10):
a trade. Jerry's got the final say on everything, and
if he wanted to get it done early, he could
have signed. They wanted more, or they wanted fewer years,
or they wanted more guarantee or more signing bonus.
Speaker 3 (23:25):
So there's a lot to.
Speaker 4 (23:26):
It than just saying, oh, pay him, because we don't
know what he's asking for, right And as Jerry said,
I made him an offer and it was more than
you guys would think.
Speaker 3 (23:40):
And so again there's two sides to this thing.
Speaker 10 (23:44):
And so.
Speaker 4 (23:47):
He could have done exactly what Jake Ferguson did. Jake
Ferguson signed a year early so he could put twelve
million dollars signing bonus in the bank the next day.
Speaker 3 (23:59):
So if he wants.
Speaker 4 (24:00):
Forty million dollars signing bonus, sign the thing. But you're
getting a year before the contract and all the CBA
stuff says you deserve a new contract.
Speaker 5 (24:11):
All right, So we are okay, this is Tuesday, August.
What is today the fifth Okay, we're just just under
a month away. In fact that the four weeks from
Thursday will be the season opener. Heckma, what do you think?
What kind of timeline are we looking at where a
(24:31):
deal needs to be done or something needs to be
resolved on this where Micah is back practicing, how much
lead time does he need, you think, as a pass
rusher to be ready to contribute against the Eagles and
the season opener.
Speaker 7 (24:46):
Before I answer that, I just want to piggyback off
of what Mickey was saying, because in that sixteen minute
interview with Jerry Jones, I came away with that saying,
you know, billionaires aren't intimidated by millionaires.
Speaker 6 (25:00):
He is not going to act as to that.
Speaker 4 (25:03):
You know.
Speaker 7 (25:03):
It's just like, yeah, I knew for sure that the
comeback from that from Jerry Jones was going to be
very swift. But also you know he's he's at the
age and my you get to the age where you
lose the ability to sugarcoat things. And it's just the
way that he addresses this is, look, don't lose any
sleep over.
Speaker 6 (25:21):
This is basically to everyone involved.
Speaker 5 (25:23):
When you start sugar scoten and you start talking about
mamas and daddies and so.
Speaker 6 (25:29):
You get it right.
Speaker 7 (25:30):
But honestly, the timeline for me would be in the
next two weeks. I feel like in the next two
weeks and that's where ideally.
Speaker 5 (25:37):
Basically when they get back here. Yes, so, in fact,
the open practices on Tuesday the nineteenth, two weeks from today,
the nineteenth and the twentieth. That's when you're thinking something
needs to be solved by then and let's let's get
on with it.
Speaker 7 (25:53):
Because if he's not out there physically, he's not taking
the bumps and bruises and not getting into actual football shape,
that's where you worry. And where he's talking about soft
tissue issues, that's where you get into that danger zone.
If you're trying to sign him the week of the
you know, the Philly.
Speaker 5 (26:07):
Game, Micky, what do you think?
Speaker 4 (26:11):
So I've been told he needs two weeks of work
before they put him on the field, So do the math.
And if he wants to play in the NFL season opener,
which I'm sure he is dying to get on national
TV on a Thursday night, then that week they start
(26:32):
practicing at the Star, this thing better be settled. Otherwise
he's gonna miss the first game. Because as you can think, okay,
you missed, say you missed the first game, you still
got to play sixteen more games, right, win or lose.
So yeah, to get him in football playing shape safely.
(26:55):
Now you can argue and say, well, what if he
just gets ten snaps and all he has to do
is rush to quarterback. Well, you still can get hurt
because you haven't played any football. You didn't do anything
in the offseason, no OTAs, no mini camp. While he
was there, he didn't do any football stuff. He did
some drills, hadn't done a thing out here. So yeah,
(27:20):
I think he needs a two week you know, leeway
to before they practice, you know, you guys. I compared
it with Michael Irvin in nineteen ninety two. Michael Irvin
missed all the offseason, all of training camp. He signed
the Thursday before the Monday night season opener and he played, right,
(27:40):
That's different. That's different because he's a wide receiver. He's
not taken on some three hundred and thirty pounds you know,
offensive lineman trying to get to the quarterback. Same thing
with the running backs, right, this last holdout for Zeke
when he signed the week of the opener, he got
third team carries. But it's a running back. It's not
(28:03):
trying to move by some big men and chances are
you get hurt. So I think he needs a two
two week ramp up before they put him on the field.
Speaker 5 (28:13):
And see, I think that Jerry's thinking that too, you know,
as much as he's talked about the availability of players
is the most important thing when you sign players to this.
You know, the next two weeks, okay, there's more of
a chance he could get hurt. So so his his
deadline on it. I'm thinking in his mind is Okay,
(28:37):
at what point of camp does he need to ramp
it up and get ready where he can go full
speed ahead and we're and we're mitigating the injury risk
in training camp at the same time. Yeah, that's where
I think it goes to that two week.
Speaker 7 (28:50):
More completely agree and and what Mickey staid said was right.
I think position comes into this as well. I mean,
if you have a guy like Michael who's going to
be leaning on three hundred pounders and rely on you know,
pulling guards coming this way, you don't want that to
be his first action to be on September the fourth.
But you know, right now, the Cowboys are leading the
news cycle when it comes down to Micah's contract and
(29:13):
every other contract that's out there.
Speaker 6 (29:15):
So I think.
Speaker 7 (29:16):
Jerry got him right where he wants because it's fresh
on everybody's mind.
Speaker 5 (29:20):
All Right, we continue with more mix shots. We do
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joint practice with the Rams when we come back here.
In our final segment, Mickey, let's do that when we
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of the Dallas Cowboys. As we are back here on
a mixed shots, you've got Bill Jones and Heckma Harrison
here in the SWBC podcast studio at the Star. You've
got Mickey Spagnola in Oxnard. As we are less than
five hours away from the Rams and Cowboys joint practice.
(32:38):
Seems like a long time away there, Mickey. But let's
start with this, okay. Heckma asked the pose the question.
Heck me, you post the question to Mickey what you
just did in the in the break there one of
the position battles you're most interested in? Take it away, Heckma, Well.
Speaker 7 (32:55):
I think a lot of talk has been since George
Pickens has arrived.
Speaker 6 (32:58):
Who is going to be the third wide receiver?
Speaker 7 (33:01):
You know, I obviously think that that's Ferguson, but I
think there are other names when it comes down to
that pecking order in the wide receiver room. And I
want to know the guy out in Oxnard who is
taking the charge to actually be the official third wide receiver.
Speaker 4 (33:17):
What do you think Mickey, So I believe that at
this point it's going to be a rotation. And I
would think the top three guys right now are Cavante Turpin,
Jonathan Mingo, and Jalen Tolbert. I think that's kind of
the way they've been working things so far. And if
(33:40):
you guys, remember Schottenheimer in the offseason said that they
wanted to be able to incorporate Cavante Turpin as a
wide receiver, not just a gadget guy, not just a
guy that's going to line up and do jet sweeps.
Speaker 3 (33:57):
They want to throw the ball down the field to him.
Speaker 4 (34:00):
And when I say down the field, I see I
say more than swing passes, more than screens. He's running
routes out of the slot and catching balls ten fifteen
yards down the field on the run.
Speaker 3 (34:15):
And here's the deal.
Speaker 4 (34:18):
If you got him on the field with Ceed Lamb
and George Pickens, and oh, by the way, you get
Jaydon Blue at running back and him on the field
in the slot, somebody's got to be covered by a linebacker.
And there ain't no linebacker on this earth that's going
(34:40):
to run with any of those three guys or four guys,
for sure.
Speaker 3 (34:46):
So that speed.
Speaker 4 (34:48):
If the offensive line can block, it is going to
be pretty dynamic. So to me, what are you trying
to accomplish? You want to do something with your speed
and get Turpin in the slot. Fine, you want to
run Ceede Lamb out of the slot with a big
receiver on the outside with Piggins, well then it's Mingo
(35:12):
or Tobert, and Tolbert had a good day yesterday.
Speaker 3 (35:14):
He's kind of the forgotten guy.
Speaker 4 (35:16):
I heard somebody say, well, they're gonna cut him or
they're gonna trade him. Just remember he led this team
in touchdown receptions last year and I know it wasn't
some big number because it was only I think seven.
But you get one injury of those top two guys,
you know who's your starter. So I think right now
(35:37):
it's a rotation on what they're trying to accomplish on
third and whatever it is, or whenever they go into
their nickel offense with three wide receivers.
Speaker 7 (35:50):
And Bill, let me just add this, when it comes
down to what Jayalen Tobert has also been able to
do since he's been here is carve out a role
on special teams as well, and I think that's what
gives him that value because of his diversity diversification in
his position. He can play you know, the slot, he
can play on the outside, but he also is a
special teams guy. So you know, that's one of the
(36:11):
reasons why I don't listen to the noise when it
comes down to whether he's going to make the team
or not. But when it comes down to Cavante Turpin,
he's five to seven, one hundred and fifty five pounds, okay,
And I just in years past is in the Texas
Coast offense, he was more of a gadget guy, and
looking at him and reality of him being that third
(36:32):
wide receiver, I think that's where the doubt comes in
because of the other guys that you have on.
Speaker 6 (36:38):
In that wide receiver room.
Speaker 7 (36:39):
So I just you know, look, I want to see
what it looks like, you know, seeing him run those digs,
seeing him run those posts and goals if he does.
But you know, he's gonna have to be able to
run the route tree and not just be a gadget
guy because that absolutely makes it easier for defensive coordinator.
Speaker 3 (36:56):
You know, the other thing when you well have but
that's what's it.
Speaker 4 (37:00):
Heckma, that's exactly what's happening out here. He's running the
route tree. He's catching passes ten fifteen, twenty yards down
the field over the middle on the run. And that's
why I said, Schottenheimer's intention is to make him a
wide receiver, not a gadget guy. And if you can
(37:21):
get his and you if you remember, and I know,
it was the USFL. He was the offensive player of
the year in that league. And it wasn't just on
his returns. He was one of the leading receivers in
that league. So they got to get him the ball
in several different ways. And he's up, as he told me,
(37:43):
I'll play anything they want me to play. If it's
tight end, I'll line up at tight end at five seven,
one hundred and sixty pounds, okay.
Speaker 6 (37:53):
You know.
Speaker 5 (37:55):
And if for those of us who remember him at TCU,
he was a good receiver at TCUO. In fact, I
just looked up his numbers in twenty seventeen at TCU,
his first team All Big twelve as an all purpose player.
He finished the year with forty one catches for three
hundred and ninety four yards. So and that was all
as a slot receiver, whiteout type. Because they weren't using
(38:18):
him in the backfield. I do think one of the
interesting things that Brian Schottenneimer has mentioned is a comparison.
You know, he was being used a little bit in
the backfield as a running back type, and he mentioned
Darren Sprolls. And when you look at Schottenheimer was in
San Diego when Sprolls came into the league in two
(38:40):
thousand and five. Now he was just on that staff
that one year when Sprolls was there. He went to
the took the Jets job in six Shottenneimer did, but
he saw how he was being used in San Diego. Now,
the difference between Darren Sprolls and Cavante Turpin is huge
in terms of being a running back because Sprolls his
trade was a running back at Kansas State probably, I mean,
(39:03):
he could have won the Heisman at Kansas State, came
very close. In fact, if yes, Bill Snyder, he should
have won the Heisman as a running back there. But
when you look at I just looked up Sproll's numbers
as rushing attempts in his career at the Chargers and
the most number and other difference between Sprolls and Turpin
(39:24):
is Sprowl's one hundred and ninety pounds and Turpin is
his one hundred and fifty eight whatever he is, you know,
thirty pound difference in size there too, but about the
same height. The most number of rushing attempts that Darren
Sprolls had in his NFL career was ninety four. Okay,
extrapolate that over a I mean, just average it out
(39:46):
over a sixteen seventeen game season, sixteen game season in
his case, and you know, that's four catches a game
something like that. Five catches a game or five rushes
a game. So if Cavante Turpin is going to carry
the ball as a running back, how many carries is
he going to have this season?
Speaker 6 (40:08):
Oh?
Speaker 4 (40:09):
God, well, I can't tell this last like an average,
And these last couple I bet he gets more than
that because they've lined him up as a true running back.
These last few practices. He's in a he's in a
one back offense, and it's with the first team. They're
(40:31):
not messing around with second team and thirdeam reps at
running back. But he has gotten snaps as a true
running back.
Speaker 5 (40:39):
But that doesn't mean he's going to get carries as
a running back every time he lines up as a
running back either. So, but that's a good way of
getting another receiver on the field and you can do
some creative things. And that's one of the things I
love about Schottenheimer as the play caller and probably one
of the reasons Dak and the brain trust here they
were big even before Schottenheimer became a serious candidate to
(41:04):
be the head coach of this team, they wanted to
bring him back as the play caller, and they like,
you know what he brings to the table.
Speaker 6 (41:11):
Yea, I think he's a dynamic player.
Speaker 4 (41:13):
I think well, let me add that they've handed him
the ball too. By the way, as a running back,
he's not there to fake people out.
Speaker 7 (41:23):
It gets interesting, right We're at the part of the
season where we're still playing the guessing game with what
Schottenheimer's offense is going to look like. And you bring
in you get a running back like Jayden Blue get,
you get other guys that are that you bring in
through free agency. Maybe it's not ideal in my football
brain to even think about Cavante turpinas a running back
and you talk about the carriers that he may get
(41:45):
I'm fifteen, between fifteen and twenty, and it's all gonna
be situational that he does get those carries fourth and one.
Speaker 6 (41:51):
I don't want to see Conte terping, and I know
I won't see that.
Speaker 7 (41:55):
I'm being funny when I say that, but I'm just
saying it's just one of those guys that really is dynamic,
and you, oh, dynamic he was last season just on
special team.
Speaker 5 (42:03):
I like the fact that they're figuring out ways to
get him the football and because he is a big
play thread every time he touches the ball. Makey some
final comments.
Speaker 4 (42:18):
By the way, he caught a couple passes the other
day and he's on the run when he catches it,
and I'm sitting there going he gone, they can't catch him.
He running by people, all right. And Jaden Blue, by
the way. With Miles Sanders out with a knee sore knee, uh,
(42:40):
Jayden Blues got some first team snaps at running back
along with Javonte Williams.
Speaker 5 (42:46):
Okay, I want you to focus in mickey on Jared
Verse versus whoever lines up at left tackle, Nate Thomas
or whoever it is, and that that that's what I
remember the most from last year when the Rams came
to Oxnard was Jared Verse versus Tyler Gaiden. So let's see, ye.
Speaker 3 (43:08):
So I want him, I want him miked up.
Speaker 5 (43:12):
Okay, very good. See if you can arrange that, And
how about we do this again on Thursday. And how
about we go ahead and text Everson and see if
Everson might join us too. What do you think of that?
Speaker 6 (43:22):
Heck man, I think we need to get that going
right now.
Speaker 5 (43:25):
All right, no, very good, all right, Mickey, enjoy your
joint practice in Oxnard today, and heck we we appreciate it.
Paul Bautista, we appreciated here, and producer Supreme Chris Beam
in Oxnard. And the break is coming up next. I
think that's what's next on the schedule. Appreciate and we
(43:49):
will shout at you again on Thursday at eleven o'clock
Dallas time.
Speaker 1 (43:55):
It's been a production of Dallascowboys dot Com and the
Dallas Cowboys Football Club.
Speaker 5 (44:00):
How much your shovel here?
Speaker 6 (44:12):
H
The following is a production of Dallas Cowboys dot Com
and the Dallas Cowboys Football Club.
Speaker 2 (00:09):
Cowboys, This is mick Shots, streaming live on Dallascowboys dot Com.
Speaker 3 (00:17):
And the official Dallas Cowboys apt.
Speaker 4 (00:20):
Now Here are Bill Jones, Hecma Harrison, Everson Wolves, and
Mickey Spagnola.
Speaker 5 (00:30):
And welcome to a Tuesday edition of mix Shots back
in the SWBC podcast studio at the Star in Frisco.
You got Bill Jones and you got give him heck
Ma Harrison making his Mixed Shots debut.
Speaker 6 (00:47):
Hello, heck Ma Hey, what's going on? Bill?
Speaker 5 (00:49):
Hey?
Speaker 3 (00:50):
And uh?
Speaker 5 (00:50):
And in Oxnard, California're lucky there there is Mickey Spagnola
at the corner of Ventura and Vineyard. Yes, for day
number seventeen of Cowboys training Camp. Mickey, it looks like
there is no marine layer because the sun is shining
on your forehead.
Speaker 3 (01:10):
Yes.
Speaker 4 (01:11):
Absolutely, it's another gorgeous beautiful day in Oxnard, California, and
it's already warmed up, so it's going to be a
really nice day this early in the morning. If the
sun is already shining brightly.
Speaker 5 (01:26):
And Hekma, you know that this is a special day
in Oxnard it is the day we have circled on
the calendar ever since it was announced that Sean mcvay's
Los Angeles Rams are headed to Oxnard. And this is
the one joint practice of this training camp.
Speaker 6 (01:45):
No, I love it.
Speaker 7 (01:46):
I look forward to it because in years past you
always got the fights, and they.
Speaker 6 (01:53):
Have been some of those sideline clearing brawls.
Speaker 5 (01:57):
I mean, that's all I had forgotten. And I wasn't
there when they had the one ten years ago when
Jeff Fisher was a head coach, But I saw someone
posted the video of it this morning, and I had
forgotten that.
Speaker 6 (02:09):
It was like, here's a.
Speaker 5 (02:10):
Brawl breaking out over here and fisticuffs over there. Then
we wind up against the fence where the fans were.
Speaker 7 (02:17):
It gets contentious, and you know, I love the way
that coach Schottenheimer has kind of put his foot down
with the team as far as the fighting is concerned.
Speaker 6 (02:24):
Good luck today.
Speaker 5 (02:25):
Though that's right now you don't have Jeff Fisher on
the other side. But Mickey, Mickey, give us the give
us the layout of what's going on, because there is
no Brian Schottenheimer press conference at one o'clock Dallas time
like there has been he's going to do it after
practice today. So what's the schedule. When do the Rams
arrive at Oxnard?
Speaker 4 (02:47):
Well, I would imagine, so if the practice starts at
two o'clock out here, you know they'll get in here
between one and two. I noticed in the parking lot
they already have coined coned off some parking spots for
the RAMS executives. So that's a start, and then we'll
(03:12):
see just how soon the guys get on the field
if that two hour window includes the stretch and all
the other stuff that goes on before practice. But remember
both teams still are under the two hour jurisdiction of
the CBA, so there's no extra time.
Speaker 3 (03:32):
I am assuming.
Speaker 4 (03:34):
Also, since the NFL officials were here yesterday for the
practice and we had the little meet and greet and
the video that the players get during training camp on
the new rules, that they're going to remain here today.
So maybe that will encourage some self decorum during practice
(04:00):
and not allow this thing to get out of hand
and get to chippy. What they need to do is
when they have these NFL officials here for the scrimmages,
they need to allow if things get carried away that
guys get fined for fighting or they get thrown out
of the scrimmage, and that'll slow things down. Now, Bill,
(04:21):
if you saw the video of what happened, and it
was ten years ago, I said, I guessed earlier today
it was like seven or eight, so I was a
little short there. But the funny thing that took place,
And remember, you got the offense, like the Cowboys offense
(04:41):
against the Rams defense on the field closest to the houses,
and then the opposite on the field closest to the bleachers.
And during the practice the field, the fight broke out
between the Cowboy defense and the Rams offense. So the
Cowboys offense was on the firefield and they were practicing
(05:03):
goal line. And I don't know if you were here
or you remember this, but the Cowboys were at the
line of scrimmage from like the one yard line, and
the Rams defense was, you know, in the end zone whatever,
and Romo was about ready to bark his signals when
the fight broke out, and ten of the eleven Rams
(05:26):
defenders ran over to where the fight was. The Cowboys
stayed in formation, and I think it was their veteran
linebacker at that time, gosh I can't remember the guy's name.
He stayed on the field and Romo called the signals,
(05:47):
ran a quarterback sneak into the end zone and spiked
the ball while everybody was fighting on the other field.
Speaker 5 (05:56):
I don't think i've heard it was hilarious. I don't
think i've heard that story before. Where the Rams defense
came from the other field. It was like it's like
in baseball where the bullpen it comes out when there's
a fight in a baseball game. They've ran all the
way over to the other field to join in.
Speaker 3 (06:15):
It was like the charge of the light.
Speaker 4 (06:17):
It was like the charge of the light brigade, right,
and it was hilarious. So a bunch of us that
were on that field covering what was going on, we
started running over there, uh to see right, and somebody
in Cowboy security had their hands up, Get back, get back,
and it's like, do you think I'm foolish enough to
get too close to have a helmet hit me in
(06:39):
the head. That was even further funny of what was
taking place. And then the fight broke out along the
fence and the fans started throwing punches at the players.
Speaker 6 (06:50):
Yeah, I love Cowboy fans.
Speaker 4 (06:54):
Hey Mick, I had a question and it wasn't all
Cowboy fans either, THEO Yeah, of course.
Speaker 5 (07:01):
It was the Saint Louis Rams back then, right.
Speaker 7 (07:03):
No, that's ye back in there. Yeah, yeah, Mickey. My
question that I had for you was in Coach Schottenheimer's
interview yesterday. He talked about it being more of a
team atmosphere versus seven on seven and one v one.
What was your opinion of that when you when you
heard him talk about, you know, look at being more
of a scrimmage atmosphere.
Speaker 3 (07:23):
Well, they they.
Speaker 4 (07:26):
I think, you know, he's about eliminated nine on seven
and seven on seven from practices here. Okay, And as
he points out, when you play a game, it's eleven
on eleven, so we're practicing eleven on eleven. But they
did have a seven on seven session, I think the
(07:46):
last two of the last three days, and I think
that was in preparation. If Sean McVeigh wanted to do
seven on seven, they would have a seven on seven period,
which is the most unfair drill for the defense that
has to cover one on one the entire football field
(08:08):
and the quarterback has the time of day to throw
the ball right so it's not like playing flag football
when it's seven on seven or you know what they
do in high school. It's the most unfair drill you've
ever seen. So we'll see if they end up doing that,
but I would imagine it's going to be a lot
(08:28):
of team one other thing, since you know, we're here
early in the morning and I heard this had been
going on, but Micah Parsons was actually doing his conditioning
on the field with the Cowboys strength and conditioning members
of the strength and condition I think Kendall Smith was
(08:49):
out there kind of monitoring what he was doing. So
if nothing else, maybe he'll get himself in somewhat condition
that when this thing comes to a head an end,
that'll be a little get.
Speaker 3 (09:06):
Closer to playing football.
Speaker 4 (09:08):
But again, if you think about it, he hasn't been
in pads since January fifth, I think that was the
date of the last game, so there's no way if
he signs like the week of the season opener, that
he's going to play in that first game. I think
the trainers would really push back against doing that and
(09:30):
getting the chance of him suffering some sort of soft
tissue injury without any actual practice has taken place.
Speaker 3 (09:37):
Beforehand.
Speaker 5 (09:39):
All right, as we get started here and by the
way throughout the season and on our next gathering on Thursday,
I assume Everson Wallas will be joining less. Okay, but
as we kick things off here with our new team here,
let's welcome in our new teammate Mickey and Hecma. Harrison
and Heckma give us and just your thoughts. What you've
(10:02):
been observing in the last couple of weeks training camp
and what strikes you, what you what you're from out there?
Speaker 7 (10:09):
You know what, Bill number one, The music is loud.
That's one thing that I've observed from practice that the
music is booming at all times. I love the tempo.
I love the tempo that Coach Schattenhamers has implemented some
of the young guys getting opportunities some of you know.
I came in immediately wanting to see the left tackle battles,
the defensive line battles, and I love to hear him
(10:32):
talk about the competition aspect of it. And so you know,
for me, George Pickens and the way that he's picked
up this offense right away is just been like the
if I could say, like stars all around for him
and the way that he's adapted to the new team.
But also, you know, I just feel as though guys
like Mars lea Foul and you wanted to see him
(10:52):
make that jump, to see that speed component still be
there for him in his linebacker. I know, you bring
in sanm Born, you bring in Murray, you bring guys
like that that you're excited about. This been onfuse Eberflus's staff,
But man, you got a young linebacker and Leah Foul
that I really enjoy seeing him in the way that
he is maturing. You know, look, all right, guard is
(11:14):
really when it comes down to today's practice, I want
to see him personally. I want to make sure that
he is going to be gained ready and all the
reps that he's gotten so far. So look, it's a
lot of things to be exciting excited about, Bill, but
I'm tempering that by today's practice and what I'm going
to see on Saturday in the preseason.
Speaker 5 (11:34):
YEP, I agree with you, And you know, Mickey Merris,
Leafoul is a guy that on several occasions, unsolicited or
or when Brian Schottenneimer is asked, who are guys that
stand out? And Leah Foul is one of the guys
that usually is at the top of his list.
Speaker 4 (11:54):
Yeah, and some of the other linebackers got more of
an opportunity last week when Kenneth Murray was I guess
it was I think he missed about a week here.
Speaker 3 (12:05):
He went back for the birth of his child.
Speaker 4 (12:08):
That's important, and so Leon file Leophile got increased snaps,
and so did Damon Clark.
Speaker 3 (12:16):
And Damon's kind of been.
Speaker 4 (12:18):
A you know, kind of a everybody's forgotten about him
because he barely played last year after starting the year
before and leading the team in tackles by the way. Uh.
So he got increased snaps with Murray Uh missing, So
that was good to see him kind of getting back
(12:38):
to what we saw from him previously. And for me,
the guy I'm excited to see uh not only in
the scrimmage, but for and I'm sure it's going to
be uh in the in the preseason game. As Jack
Sanborn kind of an undersized guy playing middle linebacker. I
think that Uh, Schottenheimer kind of compared him, or he's
(13:03):
hoping he can compare him to Sean Lee. Maybe not
the biggest middle linebacker or the fastest middle linebacker, but
hopefully the smartest middle linebacker, that he diagnoses things as
quickly as Lee did, and that he can hold down
that position. Somewhat undersized, but you know, if you think
(13:24):
about it, Eric Kendricks last year was undersized and he
did just fine. But I want to see him, especially
Saturday when they've got a tackle. You know, here, they're
still thumping up, and I'm sure that's what they want
them to do here. And the thumping up rule I
think applied to everybody but Malie Hooker because something got
(13:48):
in his mind. I talked to him about it yesterday
and he laughed. I said, who told you this was
tackle football? Because the other day he was hitting guys
left and right and putting him on the ground right.
He said, well, sometimes you just run into something, you know.
Speaker 3 (14:05):
I didn't mean it.
Speaker 4 (14:06):
But he's had he's had a really good training camp
so far.
Speaker 3 (14:11):
And I forgot about this.
Speaker 4 (14:13):
So he knows Iberflus's system because they were together four
years with the Colts, so he had a head start
on understanding what Eberflus is asking for in his system.
And he was the one guy, along with probably Sanborn,
that understand the inner workings of Eberflus's system.
Speaker 5 (14:39):
Detroit. Hooker was a first round draft pick fifteenth over
all of the Colts in twenty seventeen, which was the
year before Iberflus went there as the defensive coordinator. All right,
we're just getting started here. And by the way, on
Jack Sanborne, one other note on him, Mickey, you'll recall
what Matt eberflu said about him. One of the biggest
things that has happened with Sam Born, he feels like,
(15:02):
is how his body has changed in the work that
he's done, making himself more athletic and so and and
he's been running with the ones as a middle linebacker
basically throughout camp from day one. And when the when
Murray was there the first week of camp, it was
Samborne and Murray lining up side by side. By the way,
real quick before we go to a break, Mickey was
(15:24):
was Murray uh practicing yesterday? Because on Sunday or whenever
he went over day or Saturday, when he came back,
he was off to the side. It was back to
a ramp up period for him. He had missed so
much time.
Speaker 4 (15:38):
He was back in team eleven on eleven yesterday. Okay,
didn't it looked like he missed anything either.
Speaker 5 (15:45):
By way, he's a he's a physical freak. That's right. Okay,
we continue with more mix shots. In just a Moment
here inside the s w BC podcast studio at Valley
at Alway said Valley Ranch.
Speaker 7 (15:58):
Wow.
Speaker 5 (15:59):
Also in Ox starred with Mickey in Just a Moment.
Speaker 2 (16:06):
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Speaker 10 (17:34):
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(17:54):
of ordinary Americans who did the extraordinary. Get your tickets
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Speaker 3 (18:02):
To mixed shots.
Speaker 5 (18:08):
The official twenty twenty five Dallas Cowboys Star Magazine Training
Camp Preview now available. This year's edition features scouting reports,
position analysis, a pullout schedule poster, and articles from your
favorite Cowboys writers like Mickey Spagnola, get your training Camp
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(18:30):
com slash star Mickey. I could just see his chest
cut kind of bowed out when I said, like, Mickey Spagnola.
Speaker 6 (18:38):
Is that in the is that.
Speaker 5 (18:40):
That was an ad lib? Okay, that's one of the requirements.
That's one of the requirements of being on Mixed Shots.
At times you have to build up Mickey's ego.
Speaker 7 (18:50):
Oh well, the show's named after that, all right, sure, exactly,
of course, I got you.
Speaker 5 (18:55):
That's right, all right?
Speaker 3 (18:56):
You know what, just to don't you forget.
Speaker 5 (18:58):
It just occurred to me in the break and talking
with Hekma here that the Micah trade request came after
we were last had an episode of Mixed Shots. We
were on at eleven o'clock Dallas time, nine o'clock California
time on Friday, and heckma, it was going to be
(19:22):
a great leisurely day for me. It was, really it
was because there was no practice on Friday. In fact,
I was dressed as I am and I just had
jim shorts on and a T shirt. My CBS eleven
responsibilities weren't until later in the day okay, and they
were making a couple of players available, George Pickens and
(19:43):
kyer Elam, So we were going to shoot that in
the morning and then we go back to the hotel,
find a spot at the harbor to do our live
shot from whatever, and right and right in the middle
of the kyer Elam press conference, Micah Parson excited to
hit send oh Man and it turned into the busiest
(20:06):
day for us at camp. What was your reaction, hekma
after seeing that and need fallout from it in the
last four days since.
Speaker 7 (20:15):
Bill Unfortunately, I am used to the posturing at this
point when it comes down to Cowboys stars wanting new contracts,
but I didn't expect that. Obviously, I didn't expect them
to request the trade. But again it's one of those
things that for me, I just felt like this. You know,
obviously you can you can submit whatever you want. The
organization is not going to act on that, and I
(20:36):
think you get to the point, as somewhat a reserver
of the of the game that you get a little
tired of it always being this time of year where
you are fighting with superstars on their contracts, and to
even hear Mickey insinuate that maybe there's a situation where
Micah wouldn't play on September the fourth. I mean, my
stomach turned. You didn't hear it, but it happened, right,
(20:59):
because that's the last thing that I want to hear,
his last thing I want to be a part of,
because you know how badly you need your superstar player.
And I think that you know, in Micah's defense, if
it's true, he's been talking about that he wanted to
do this early, he didn't want to miss any time.
Speaker 6 (21:14):
He wanted to get this done early.
Speaker 7 (21:16):
And I really just think and ask myself, like, if
you had gotten the deal done early, would that have
been beneficial to him? Would you still be in a
situation today where you feel like, hey, you got one
of the best star linebackers in the NFL that's being
drastically overpaid.
Speaker 5 (21:32):
Yeah, And I just can't see it getting to that
point where he's not going to be lining up on
September fourth against Philadelphia. Mickey, we haven't had a chance
to hear your observations of what happened then on Friday,
and then Jerry's sixteen plus minute meeting with the media
after practice on Saturday, what's your take on it all?
Speaker 4 (21:57):
When I first heard it, stay my bit eating heart. Seriously,
we went to the book of agent negotiations, and when
you hit a stalemate and you got no leverage whatsoever,
and your guys under contract, you say I'm demanding a trade.
And I'm sure Micah didn't write that dissertation, right. That
(22:22):
came right from the agent. I guarantee you, and he
just signed, and he just signed off on it. You know,
it's the perfunctory I demand a trade. I don't want
to be here anymore. They're disrespecting me. And then he's
at practice the next day, and he's at practice on
Sunday and he's on practice. There was no practice Sunday.
(22:46):
He's at practice on Monday, and this morning he's out
there working with the with the strength and conditioning coaches,
trying to get his conditioning in. That doesn't sound like
a guy that doesn't want to be here, right. So
the whole thing it's a hoax. And as you saw
from Jerry, he could give a flip if he demanded
(23:10):
a trade. Jerry's got the final say on everything, and
if he wanted to get it done early, he could
have signed. They wanted more, or they wanted fewer years,
or they wanted more guarantee or more signing bonus.
Speaker 3 (23:25):
So there's a lot to.
Speaker 4 (23:26):
It than just saying, oh, pay him, because we don't
know what he's asking for, right And as Jerry said,
I made him an offer and it was more than
you guys would think.
Speaker 3 (23:40):
And so again there's two sides to this thing.
Speaker 10 (23:44):
And so.
Speaker 4 (23:47):
He could have done exactly what Jake Ferguson did. Jake
Ferguson signed a year early so he could put twelve
million dollars signing bonus in the bank the next day.
Speaker 3 (23:59):
So if he wants.
Speaker 4 (24:00):
Forty million dollars signing bonus, sign the thing. But you're
getting a year before the contract and all the CBA
stuff says you deserve a new contract.
Speaker 5 (24:11):
All right, So we are okay, this is Tuesday, August.
What is today the fifth Okay, we're just just under
a month away. In fact that the four weeks from
Thursday will be the season opener. Heckma, what do you think?
What kind of timeline are we looking at where a
(24:31):
deal needs to be done or something needs to be
resolved on this where Micah is back practicing, how much
lead time does he need, you think, as a pass
rusher to be ready to contribute against the Eagles and
the season opener.
Speaker 7 (24:46):
Before I answer that, I just want to piggyback off
of what Mickey was saying, because in that sixteen minute
interview with Jerry Jones, I came away with that saying,
you know, billionaires aren't intimidated by millionaires.
Speaker 6 (25:00):
He is not going to act as to that.
Speaker 4 (25:03):
You know.
Speaker 7 (25:03):
It's just like, yeah, I knew for sure that the
comeback from that from Jerry Jones was going to be
very swift. But also you know he's he's at the
age and my you get to the age where you
lose the ability to sugarcoat things. And it's just the
way that he addresses this is, look, don't lose any
sleep over.
Speaker 6 (25:21):
This is basically to everyone involved.
Speaker 5 (25:23):
When you start sugar scoten and you start talking about
mamas and daddies and so.
Speaker 6 (25:29):
You get it right.
Speaker 7 (25:30):
But honestly, the timeline for me would be in the
next two weeks. I feel like in the next two
weeks and that's where ideally.
Speaker 5 (25:37):
Basically when they get back here. Yes, so, in fact,
the open practices on Tuesday the nineteenth, two weeks from today,
the nineteenth and the twentieth. That's when you're thinking something
needs to be solved by then and let's let's get
on with it.
Speaker 7 (25:53):
Because if he's not out there physically, he's not taking
the bumps and bruises and not getting into actual football shape,
that's where you worry. And where he's talking about soft
tissue issues, that's where you get into that danger zone.
If you're trying to sign him the week of the
you know, the Philly.
Speaker 5 (26:07):
Game, Micky, what do you think?
Speaker 4 (26:11):
So I've been told he needs two weeks of work
before they put him on the field, So do the math.
And if he wants to play in the NFL season opener,
which I'm sure he is dying to get on national
TV on a Thursday night, then that week they start
(26:32):
practicing at the Star, this thing better be settled. Otherwise
he's gonna miss the first game. Because as you can think, okay,
you missed, say you missed the first game, you still
got to play sixteen more games, right, win or lose.
So yeah, to get him in football playing shape safely.
(26:55):
Now you can argue and say, well, what if he
just gets ten snaps and all he has to do
is rush to quarterback. Well, you still can get hurt
because you haven't played any football. You didn't do anything
in the offseason, no OTAs, no mini camp. While he
was there, he didn't do any football stuff. He did
some drills, hadn't done a thing out here. So yeah,
(27:20):
I think he needs a two week you know, leeway
to before they practice, you know, you guys. I compared
it with Michael Irvin in nineteen ninety two. Michael Irvin
missed all the offseason, all of training camp. He signed
the Thursday before the Monday night season opener and he played, right,
(27:40):
That's different. That's different because he's a wide receiver. He's
not taken on some three hundred and thirty pounds you know,
offensive lineman trying to get to the quarterback. Same thing
with the running backs, right, this last holdout for Zeke
when he signed the week of the opener, he got
third team carries. But it's a running back. It's not
(28:03):
trying to move by some big men and chances are
you get hurt. So I think he needs a two
two week ramp up before they put him on the field.
Speaker 5 (28:13):
And see, I think that Jerry's thinking that too, you know,
as much as he's talked about the availability of players
is the most important thing when you sign players to this.
You know, the next two weeks, okay, there's more of
a chance he could get hurt. So so his his
deadline on it. I'm thinking in his mind is Okay,
(28:37):
at what point of camp does he need to ramp
it up and get ready where he can go full
speed ahead and we're and we're mitigating the injury risk
in training camp at the same time. Yeah, that's where
I think it goes to that two week.
Speaker 7 (28:50):
More completely agree and and what Mickey staid said was right.
I think position comes into this as well. I mean,
if you have a guy like Michael who's going to
be leaning on three hundred pounders and rely on you know,
pulling guards coming this way, you don't want that to
be his first action to be on September the fourth.
But you know, right now, the Cowboys are leading the
news cycle when it comes down to Micah's contract and
(29:13):
every other contract that's out there.
Speaker 6 (29:15):
So I think.
Speaker 7 (29:16):
Jerry got him right where he wants because it's fresh
on everybody's mind.
Speaker 5 (29:20):
All Right, we continue with more mix shots. We do
our you want to do a pregame show for the
joint practice with the Rams when we come back here.
In our final segment, Mickey, let's do that when we
come back here on mix shots.
Speaker 8 (29:34):
Star Sports Tours is the only official fan travel partner
of the Dallas Cowboys, offering exclusive game weekend travel packages
with pregame, sideline access and photo ops with current players,
cheerleaders and Cowboy legends. You want to stay at a
team hotel, attend the best tail game party in Texas,
tour the Star and talk exs and od's with me
(29:55):
Everson Wallas. With Star Sports Tours, you can visit Cowboy
US Travel dot com to book your travel package today.
Speaker 10 (30:03):
The National Medal of Honor Museum is now open in Arlington, Texas,
just a few blocks from AT and T Stadium. Immersive
exhibits and exciting technology allow you to fly a rescue
helicopter mission in Vietnam and have conversations with virtual Medal
of Honor recipients. Come be inspired by these incredible stories
(30:23):
of ordinary Americans who did the extraordinary. Get your tickets
at mohmuseum dot org.
Speaker 9 (30:30):
AT and T has a new guarantee. Because most things
in life are not guaranteed, like getting through self checkout
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Speaker 5 (30:37):
Warning.
Speaker 1 (30:38):
Each item must be placed in the bagging area, not
guarantee place item in the bagging area. Place item in
the bagging area.
Speaker 6 (30:46):
You know what.
Speaker 9 (30:46):
AT and T guarantees connectivity. You depend on deals you want,
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Speaker 2 (31:01):
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(31:23):
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Speaker 3 (31:36):
To Mixed Shots.
Speaker 5 (31:44):
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Speaker 4 (31:52):
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(32:16):
of the Dallas Cowboys. As we are back here on
a mixed shots, you've got Bill Jones and Heckma Harrison
here in the SWBC podcast studio at the Star. You've
got Mickey Spagnola in Oxnard. As we are less than
five hours away from the Rams and Cowboys joint practice.
(32:38):
Seems like a long time away there, Mickey. But let's
start with this, okay. Heckma asked the pose the question.
Heck me, you post the question to Mickey what you
just did in the in the break there one of
the position battles you're most interested in? Take it away, Heckma, Well.
Speaker 7 (32:55):
I think a lot of talk has been since George
Pickens has arrived.
Speaker 6 (32:58):
Who is going to be the third wide receiver?
Speaker 7 (33:01):
You know, I obviously think that that's Ferguson, but I
think there are other names when it comes down to
that pecking order in the wide receiver room. And I
want to know the guy out in Oxnard who is
taking the charge to actually be the official third wide receiver.
Speaker 4 (33:17):
What do you think Mickey, So I believe that at
this point it's going to be a rotation. And I
would think the top three guys right now are Cavante Turpin,
Jonathan Mingo, and Jalen Tolbert. I think that's kind of
the way they've been working things so far. And if
(33:40):
you guys, remember Schottenheimer in the offseason said that they
wanted to be able to incorporate Cavante Turpin as a
wide receiver, not just a gadget guy, not just a
guy that's going to line up and do jet sweeps.
Speaker 3 (33:57):
They want to throw the ball down the field to him.
Speaker 4 (34:00):
And when I say down the field, I see I
say more than swing passes, more than screens. He's running
routes out of the slot and catching balls ten fifteen
yards down the field on the run.
Speaker 3 (34:15):
And here's the deal.
Speaker 4 (34:18):
If you got him on the field with Ceed Lamb
and George Pickens, and oh, by the way, you get
Jaydon Blue at running back and him on the field
in the slot, somebody's got to be covered by a linebacker.
And there ain't no linebacker on this earth that's going
(34:40):
to run with any of those three guys or four guys,
for sure.
Speaker 3 (34:46):
So that speed.
Speaker 4 (34:48):
If the offensive line can block, it is going to
be pretty dynamic. So to me, what are you trying
to accomplish? You want to do something with your speed
and get Turpin in the slot. Fine, you want to
run Ceede Lamb out of the slot with a big
receiver on the outside with Piggins, well then it's Mingo
(35:12):
or Tobert, and Tolbert had a good day yesterday.
Speaker 3 (35:14):
He's kind of the forgotten guy.
Speaker 4 (35:16):
I heard somebody say, well, they're gonna cut him or
they're gonna trade him. Just remember he led this team
in touchdown receptions last year and I know it wasn't
some big number because it was only I think seven.
But you get one injury of those top two guys,
you know who's your starter. So I think right now
(35:37):
it's a rotation on what they're trying to accomplish on
third and whatever it is, or whenever they go into
their nickel offense with three wide receivers.
Speaker 7 (35:50):
And Bill, let me just add this, when it comes
down to what Jayalen Tobert has also been able to
do since he's been here is carve out a role
on special teams as well, and I think that's what
gives him that value because of his diversity diversification in
his position. He can play you know, the slot, he
can play on the outside, but he also is a
special teams guy. So you know, that's one of the
(36:11):
reasons why I don't listen to the noise when it
comes down to whether he's going to make the team
or not. But when it comes down to Cavante Turpin,
he's five to seven, one hundred and fifty five pounds, okay,
And I just in years past is in the Texas
Coast offense, he was more of a gadget guy, and
looking at him and reality of him being that third
(36:32):
wide receiver, I think that's where the doubt comes in
because of the other guys that you have on.
Speaker 6 (36:38):
In that wide receiver room.
Speaker 7 (36:39):
So I just you know, look, I want to see
what it looks like, you know, seeing him run those digs,
seeing him run those posts and goals if he does.
But you know, he's gonna have to be able to
run the route tree and not just be a gadget
guy because that absolutely makes it easier for defensive coordinator.
Speaker 3 (36:56):
You know, the other thing when you well have but
that's what's it.
Speaker 4 (37:00):
Heckma, that's exactly what's happening out here. He's running the
route tree. He's catching passes ten fifteen, twenty yards down
the field over the middle on the run. And that's
why I said, Schottenheimer's intention is to make him a
wide receiver, not a gadget guy. And if you can
(37:21):
get his and you if you remember, and I know,
it was the USFL. He was the offensive player of
the year in that league. And it wasn't just on
his returns. He was one of the leading receivers in
that league. So they got to get him the ball
in several different ways. And he's up, as he told me,
(37:43):
I'll play anything they want me to play. If it's
tight end, I'll line up at tight end at five seven,
one hundred and sixty pounds, okay.
Speaker 6 (37:53):
You know.
Speaker 5 (37:55):
And if for those of us who remember him at TCU,
he was a good receiver at TCUO. In fact, I
just looked up his numbers in twenty seventeen at TCU,
his first team All Big twelve as an all purpose player.
He finished the year with forty one catches for three
hundred and ninety four yards. So and that was all
as a slot receiver, whiteout type. Because they weren't using
(38:18):
him in the backfield. I do think one of the
interesting things that Brian Schottenneimer has mentioned is a comparison.
You know, he was being used a little bit in
the backfield as a running back type, and he mentioned
Darren Sprolls. And when you look at Schottenheimer was in
San Diego when Sprolls came into the league in two
(38:40):
thousand and five. Now he was just on that staff
that one year when Sprolls was there. He went to
the took the Jets job in six Shottenneimer did, but
he saw how he was being used in San Diego. Now,
the difference between Darren Sprolls and Cavante Turpin is huge
in terms of being a running back because Sprolls his
trade was a running back at Kansas State probably, I mean,
(39:03):
he could have won the Heisman at Kansas State, came
very close. In fact, if yes, Bill Snyder, he should
have won the Heisman as a running back there. But
when you look at I just looked up Sproll's numbers
as rushing attempts in his career at the Chargers and
the most number and other difference between Sprolls and Turpin
(39:24):
is Sprowl's one hundred and ninety pounds and Turpin is
his one hundred and fifty eight whatever he is, you know,
thirty pound difference in size there too, but about the
same height. The most number of rushing attempts that Darren
Sprolls had in his NFL career was ninety four. Okay,
extrapolate that over a I mean, just average it out
(39:46):
over a sixteen seventeen game season, sixteen game season in
his case, and you know, that's four catches a game
something like that. Five catches a game or five rushes
a game. So if Cavante Turpin is going to carry
the ball as a running back, how many carries is
he going to have this season?
Speaker 6 (40:08):
Oh?
Speaker 4 (40:09):
God, well, I can't tell this last like an average,
And these last couple I bet he gets more than
that because they've lined him up as a true running back.
These last few practices. He's in a he's in a
one back offense, and it's with the first team. They're
(40:31):
not messing around with second team and thirdeam reps at
running back. But he has gotten snaps as a true
running back.
Speaker 5 (40:39):
But that doesn't mean he's going to get carries as
a running back every time he lines up as a
running back either. So, but that's a good way of
getting another receiver on the field and you can do
some creative things. And that's one of the things I
love about Schottenheimer as the play caller and probably one
of the reasons Dak and the brain trust here they
were big even before Schottenheimer became a serious candidate to
(41:04):
be the head coach of this team, they wanted to
bring him back as the play caller, and they like,
you know what he brings to the table.
Speaker 6 (41:11):
Yea, I think he's a dynamic player.
Speaker 4 (41:13):
I think well, let me add that they've handed him
the ball too. By the way, as a running back,
he's not there to fake people out.
Speaker 7 (41:23):
It gets interesting, right We're at the part of the
season where we're still playing the guessing game with what
Schottenheimer's offense is going to look like. And you bring
in you get a running back like Jayden Blue get,
you get other guys that are that you bring in
through free agency. Maybe it's not ideal in my football
brain to even think about Cavante turpinas a running back
and you talk about the carriers that he may get
(41:45):
I'm fifteen, between fifteen and twenty, and it's all gonna
be situational that he does get those carries fourth and one.
Speaker 6 (41:51):
I don't want to see Conte terping, and I know
I won't see that.
Speaker 7 (41:55):
I'm being funny when I say that, but I'm just
saying it's just one of those guys that really is dynamic,
and you, oh, dynamic he was last season just on
special team.
Speaker 5 (42:03):
I like the fact that they're figuring out ways to
get him the football and because he is a big
play thread every time he touches the ball. Makey some
final comments.
Speaker 4 (42:18):
By the way, he caught a couple passes the other
day and he's on the run when he catches it,
and I'm sitting there going he gone, they can't catch him.
He running by people, all right. And Jaden Blue, by
the way. With Miles Sanders out with a knee sore knee, uh,
(42:40):
Jayden Blues got some first team snaps at running back
along with Javonte Williams.
Speaker 5 (42:46):
Okay, I want you to focus in mickey on Jared
Verse versus whoever lines up at left tackle, Nate Thomas
or whoever it is, and that that that's what I
remember the most from last year when the Rams came
to Oxnard was Jared Verse versus Tyler Gaiden. So let's see, ye.
Speaker 3 (43:08):
So I want him, I want him miked up.
Speaker 5 (43:12):
Okay, very good. See if you can arrange that, And
how about we do this again on Thursday. And how
about we go ahead and text Everson and see if
Everson might join us too. What do you think of that?
Speaker 6 (43:22):
Heck man, I think we need to get that going
right now.
Speaker 5 (43:25):
All right, no, very good, all right, Mickey, enjoy your
joint practice in Oxnard today, and heck we we appreciate it.
Paul Bautista, we appreciated here, and producer Supreme Chris Beam
in Oxnard. And the break is coming up next. I
think that's what's next on the schedule. Appreciate and we
(43:49):
will shout at you again on Thursday at eleven o'clock
Dallas time.
Speaker 1 (43:55):
It's been a production of Dallascowboys dot Com and the
Dallas Cowboys Football Club.
Speaker 5 (44:00):
How much your shovel here?
Speaker 6 (44:12):
H
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