December 15, 2024 • 13 mins
Steelers Historian, Bob Labriola sits down with Head Coach Mike Tomlin ahead of the Steelers Week 15 matchup against the Philadelphia Eagles
See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
He's the Mike Tomlin Gen Day Podcast with Steelers Digest
editor Bob Labriola, Okay coach Hall of Fame college basketball
coach Dean Smith often said that there comes a time
in every game when the clock becomes the primary opponent.
How do you want your defense to play when you
have a lead and the clock has become the opponent.
Speaker 2 (00:21):
I don't want to get too passive, man. I'm not
a proponent of prevent defense. You know, we've done certain
things up up until that point in the game for
us to have that positioning that you mentioned. Generally, my
postures do not change our approach to business. I'm not
a guy that gets passive schematically. I don't want our
(00:42):
players to get passive and not risk take as individuals.
All that being understood that we got to keep a
lid on and you can't give up easy things. But
I think you better caution against taking your foot off
the gas.
Speaker 1 (00:58):
How do you react schematically so that you don't become passive.
Speaker 2 (01:03):
Maintaining the same schematic posture that I've had to that point.
And sometimes you can send a message by blitzing, for example.
The key is that the guys know and sometimes you
can relate relay it verbally. If you're not getting what
you're looking for in terms of that, then then you
then you relay that messaging schematically by the nature of
(01:26):
your calls.
Speaker 1 (01:26):
So, if it's a zone coverage kind of thing, is
there a difference between soft zone and tight zone? And
how how do that? How does that work?
Speaker 2 (01:34):
You know, we we have tags like loose that that
will loosen up zones based on circumstance. Everyone does. That's
not anything earth shattering or groundbreaking zone concepts or zone concepts.
Usually there's tags like loose that coordinators and defenses used
to to loosen it based on certain circumstances.
Speaker 1 (01:56):
A couple of weeks ago, I asked you about replay
Assist and one of the things you said about it
was they cannot add a penalty. They can help take
an egregious or erroneous penalty flag off the ground. In
last Sunday's game, it seemed like replay Assist was used
to call an intentional grounding penalty on Russell Wilson. What
happened there?
Speaker 2 (02:17):
You know, it seemingly looked like it, But I imagine if
you ask those guys, they were looking at certain other
parameters of the play, and not necessarily the grounding component.
There's some communication about eligibles about where the quarterback was
in the pocket, but the technology itself as a tool.
(02:37):
Those are the guidelines prescribed. If anything happened other than
what I just mentioned, I wouldn't be in the know.
Speaker 1 (02:45):
You have explained how kicks get blocked in the NFL,
and you have also explained how longer kickoff returns happen.
And I'd like to ask you about kickoff coverage. What
goes into effective kickoff coverage or if you want to
look at it the other way, common coverage mistakes at
the NFL level.
Speaker 2 (03:02):
You know, you want to reduce the amount of space
that the collective is playing in. You don't want to
play in the fifty three and a third yard wide
field if you can help it, And so setting edges
contain people. The less space that you play in, the
less room there is for individual error or losses. If
(03:23):
you're playing in a confined space and a guy misses
a tackle, the next guy's right there. And so I
think the first thing is your ability to reduce the
amount of space that people play in, and the secondary
thing is to make sure there's a distribution or a
net that's appropriate. If you're running behind the same colored jersey,
(03:44):
chances are you're making yourself an ineffective component of the play.
And so I think those two parameters really position you
to have effective kick coverage. By the same token, those
two parameters in a negative way are going to really
put you in harm's way. If you don't reduce the
grass that people play in, there's gonna be too much space.
If you're running down behind someone on your team, then
(04:05):
you're wasting yourself. And so a constricting net of people
and playing in a reduced space gives you a chance
to have excellent coverage.
Speaker 1 (04:14):
I'm old enough to remember the time when it was
a penalty to assist or push or otherwise aid a
running back or somebody else on offense with the ball.
As a member of the competition committee, what was the
thinking behind allowing the play known as the Brotherly Shove
that the Eagles have used so successfully to be allowed
to continue.
Speaker 2 (04:34):
Most rule changes are based on injury risk or injury data,
and there's no injury data that shows that that is
a dangerous play in any form of fashion. And so
as a committee, we generally proceed very slowly in terms
of taking the ball or the strategy away from someone
(04:54):
who came up with something that might be innovative or effective.
The things that usually push us the action or things
that create a added risk to the player from a
health perspective.
Speaker 1 (05:06):
What's the defensive strategy for that play.
Speaker 2 (05:09):
To push as well? You know, if they have people
behind the ball carrier pushing, then generally you're gonna have
linebackers behind the defensive line pushing to level that playing field.
But again there's a hidden ball component of it too.
You can be a linebacker that's pushing and if that
ball spills out on the perimeter because they handed a
jet off, then that pushes inappropriate. And so the bottom
(05:32):
line from a defensive perspective is you better stay out
of those circumstances. The vast majority of offenses are gonna
win the vast majority of those short yardist plays, whether
they're using the tush push or not. That is a high,
high percentage conversion rate for offenses. And so like before
I get caught up in the weeds of all of that,
(05:54):
from a defensive perspective, I generally talk about winning first
and second down definitively, where that's less of a discussion
if we're if we're in more than one or two
of those a game, chances are we got other problems
that are more significant, like they're running the ball at
an efficient rate.
Speaker 1 (06:10):
In talking about a Landon Roberts's pro day, you recalled
talking to his parents in the parking lot for about
an hour at the University of Houston. What did you
learn from that conversation?
Speaker 2 (06:20):
You know, it's about gaining information about about the young
man and oftentimes watching him interact with his parents, seeing
the nature of their relationships that gives you an awesome
insight about that young man, or maybe the relationship that
he has with the game of football. It was obvious
(06:41):
that football was a family endeavored for them, and you
know people that that that displayed at generally you can't
break them. There's a commitment there, and that commitment has
been displayed throughout his career in terms of the quality
of it and the and the longevity of it. I'm
not surprised by it. He and they were all in
(07:01):
on football.
Speaker 1 (07:03):
Our parents usually forthcoming though in those kinds of situations,
or are they trying to promote their son?
Speaker 2 (07:09):
Yeah, I don't know that. I'm looking for them to
be forthcoming most of the time, to be quite honest
with you. Parents in that situation or seeking information from
guys like us, they're not trying to trick us or
to impress us. They realized that we hold information for
them and their child that could be helpful to their
(07:29):
child in terms of what he's pursuing. And so most
of the time they're good questions that come from those
football families, as I described, and that was the case
with Landa's parents. They had really good questions about the
business and what line it had for him, and it
was a sincere thing, and you could just tell that
(07:50):
he is well supported.
Speaker 1 (07:52):
James Pierre came up with a big interception against the Browns,
and last Tuesday you said everyone was happy for him
to get an opportunity to make that splash play for us,
because everybody sees the work that he puts in, how
selfless he is, what a good teammate he is. How
does James Pierre and others in his situation show selflessness?
Speaker 2 (08:13):
You know, this is not a patient man's business. I
never ask guys to be patient. Why they wait for
their opportunity to ask them to work while they wait
for their opportunity. Sometimes your opportunity is not given to
you based on what you do. Sometimes opportunity is born
out of the misfortune of others, whether injury or otherwise.
(08:34):
And so James is a guy man that works extremely
hard every day. He's highly competitive. Whether he is taking
defensive reps or whether he's taking scout team reps. His
mentality never changes. It allows him to get better. It
allows him to position himself and sharpen his sword for performance.
(08:55):
And so I don't know how many actual defensive reps
he got last week, but he got legit reps on
on the service teams, and he made a lot of
plays in that space. And I just think playmaking is
is habitual. You make enough plays, man, it becomes a
normal state. And that guy positions him positioned himself to
(09:15):
make that play that he made in a weighty moment
for us in that football game.
Speaker 1 (09:19):
You referred to Lane Johnson as the bell cow of
the Eagles offensive line. What is a bell cow of
the offensive line? And how does Lane Johnson fit that description?
Speaker 2 (09:29):
You know, from what I heard about him, man, he's
not only a leader on the field, he's a leader
off the field. He has a unique approach to training
over the course of a twelve month calendar, and a
lot of guys, Philadelphia Eagles and non Eagles, trained with him.
He uses mixed martial arts and things of that nature,
and his prep is what I heard over the years,
and I just think that oftentimes a bell cow is
(09:52):
just that they know who they are, they know what
their process looks like, and they're they're thoughtful enough to
includ and help others find their process and a mentor.
He's been doing it at a high level for a
long time. I've heard that about him in terms of
his teammates, not only in terms of the football or
(10:12):
the end game or the end season, but over the
course of a twelve month calendar, his relationship with the profession,
how he positions himself to play as effectively as he
does and has he shares that wisdom in that approach
as well.
Speaker 1 (10:28):
How would you compare and contrast the running styles of
Saquon Barkley and Derrick Henry very different.
Speaker 2 (10:35):
Both guys are big play capable because of their top
end speed, but Derrick Henry's number one asset is his size,
his ability to run through tackles in his stiff arm.
That free hand, that hand that doesn't have the ball
is a weapon for Derrick Henry. Oftentimes you'll see defensive
(10:55):
backs running alongside him for about ten yards trying to
figure out how to negotiate that. Saquan man has got
to make you miss. He's got lateral abilities in a
tight space area. He's both fast and quick. His stop
start is elite. That's dramatically different than Derrick Henry. But
(11:16):
obviously both guys are equally effective, and both guys are
a problem. It's just a different set of problems. The
thing that they share is that breakaway speed when they
get in the open grass and they can turn twenty
yard gains into seventy yard games. That's the common bond.
Speaker 1 (11:35):
Vic Fangio has a forty one year coaching career, thirty
three of those seasons at the NFL level. He has
been a defensive coordinator for twenty of the last twenty
four seasons in the NFL or college. What's his calling card.
He's an old dog man. He's been around, you know.
He has a mode of operation. He never gives up
(11:56):
easy things. He makes you earn it. He keeps a
lid on it. It's illustrated by the yards per game
that they give up. I think they're number one in
the NFL. It's illustrated by the number of yards per
game they give up in the passing game. They're number
two in the NFL. And he's doing that with two
rookies essentially in the lineup at nickel and at outside corner,
(12:19):
and so I think that's probably indicative of his reputation
over the years. You better be ready to earn it.
It's fundamentally sound. He's not going to give it up.
You got to operate. He's gonna make you drive the football.
He's not going to give you yards or plays or
points via chunks. A previous defensive coordinator with the Eagles,
(12:42):
Jim Johnson, worked under Andy Reid. How are he and
Vic Fangio different or maybe similar?
Speaker 2 (12:50):
Wow, man, you're going back there a few years. To
be quite honest with you, Man, you know, I don't
know that. I don't I was a defensive coach at
the time that Jimmy Onsen was in Philly, and so
I focus all my energies on offenses and offensive coordinators.
You know, I don't know that I studied his stuff
to be quite honest with you, significantly enough to appropriately
(13:14):
compare and contrast.
Speaker 1 (13:15):
It to That's the Mike Tomlin Game Day Podcast. Subscribe
and download new episodes every week and check out all
of the other shows we have to offer on the
Steelers Podcast Network that's available on the Steelers Mobile app,
the iHeartRadio app, or wherever you get your podcasts.
He's the Mike Tomlin Gen Day Podcast with Steelers Digest
editor Bob Labriola, Okay coach Hall of Fame college basketball
coach Dean Smith often said that there comes a time
in every game when the clock becomes the primary opponent.
How do you want your defense to play when you
have a lead and the clock has become the opponent.
Speaker 2 (00:21):
I don't want to get too passive, man. I'm not
a proponent of prevent defense. You know, we've done certain
things up up until that point in the game for
us to have that positioning that you mentioned. Generally, my
postures do not change our approach to business. I'm not
a guy that gets passive schematically. I don't want our
(00:42):
players to get passive and not risk take as individuals.
All that being understood that we got to keep a
lid on and you can't give up easy things. But
I think you better caution against taking your foot off
the gas.
Speaker 1 (00:58):
How do you react schematically so that you don't become passive.
Speaker 2 (01:03):
Maintaining the same schematic posture that I've had to that point.
And sometimes you can send a message by blitzing, for example.
The key is that the guys know and sometimes you
can relate relay it verbally. If you're not getting what
you're looking for in terms of that, then then you
then you relay that messaging schematically by the nature of
(01:26):
your calls.
Speaker 1 (01:26):
So, if it's a zone coverage kind of thing, is
there a difference between soft zone and tight zone? And
how how do that? How does that work?
Speaker 2 (01:34):
You know, we we have tags like loose that that
will loosen up zones based on circumstance. Everyone does. That's
not anything earth shattering or groundbreaking zone concepts or zone concepts.
Usually there's tags like loose that coordinators and defenses used
to to loosen it based on certain circumstances.
Speaker 1 (01:56):
A couple of weeks ago, I asked you about replay
Assist and one of the things you said about it
was they cannot add a penalty. They can help take
an egregious or erroneous penalty flag off the ground. In
last Sunday's game, it seemed like replay Assist was used
to call an intentional grounding penalty on Russell Wilson. What
happened there?
Speaker 2 (02:17):
You know, it seemingly looked like it, But I imagine if
you ask those guys, they were looking at certain other
parameters of the play, and not necessarily the grounding component.
There's some communication about eligibles about where the quarterback was
in the pocket, but the technology itself as a tool.
(02:37):
Those are the guidelines prescribed. If anything happened other than
what I just mentioned, I wouldn't be in the know.
Speaker 1 (02:45):
You have explained how kicks get blocked in the NFL,
and you have also explained how longer kickoff returns happen.
And I'd like to ask you about kickoff coverage. What
goes into effective kickoff coverage or if you want to
look at it the other way, common coverage mistakes at
the NFL level.
Speaker 2 (03:02):
You know, you want to reduce the amount of space
that the collective is playing in. You don't want to
play in the fifty three and a third yard wide
field if you can help it, And so setting edges
contain people. The less space that you play in, the
less room there is for individual error or losses. If
(03:23):
you're playing in a confined space and a guy misses
a tackle, the next guy's right there. And so I
think the first thing is your ability to reduce the
amount of space that people play in, and the secondary
thing is to make sure there's a distribution or a
net that's appropriate. If you're running behind the same colored jersey,
(03:44):
chances are you're making yourself an ineffective component of the play.
And so I think those two parameters really position you
to have effective kick coverage. By the same token, those
two parameters in a negative way are going to really
put you in harm's way. If you don't reduce the
grass that people play in, there's gonna be too much space.
If you're running down behind someone on your team, then
(04:05):
you're wasting yourself. And so a constricting net of people
and playing in a reduced space gives you a chance
to have excellent coverage.
Speaker 1 (04:14):
I'm old enough to remember the time when it was
a penalty to assist or push or otherwise aid a
running back or somebody else on offense with the ball.
As a member of the competition committee, what was the
thinking behind allowing the play known as the Brotherly Shove
that the Eagles have used so successfully to be allowed
to continue.
Speaker 2 (04:34):
Most rule changes are based on injury risk or injury data,
and there's no injury data that shows that that is
a dangerous play in any form of fashion. And so
as a committee, we generally proceed very slowly in terms
of taking the ball or the strategy away from someone
(04:54):
who came up with something that might be innovative or effective.
The things that usually push us the action or things
that create a added risk to the player from a
health perspective.
Speaker 1 (05:06):
What's the defensive strategy for that play.
Speaker 2 (05:09):
To push as well? You know, if they have people
behind the ball carrier pushing, then generally you're gonna have
linebackers behind the defensive line pushing to level that playing field.
But again there's a hidden ball component of it too.
You can be a linebacker that's pushing and if that
ball spills out on the perimeter because they handed a
jet off, then that pushes inappropriate. And so the bottom
(05:32):
line from a defensive perspective is you better stay out
of those circumstances. The vast majority of offenses are gonna
win the vast majority of those short yardist plays, whether
they're using the tush push or not. That is a high,
high percentage conversion rate for offenses. And so like before
I get caught up in the weeds of all of that,
(05:54):
from a defensive perspective, I generally talk about winning first
and second down definitively, where that's less of a discussion
if we're if we're in more than one or two
of those a game, chances are we got other problems
that are more significant, like they're running the ball at
an efficient rate.
Speaker 1 (06:10):
In talking about a Landon Roberts's pro day, you recalled
talking to his parents in the parking lot for about
an hour at the University of Houston. What did you
learn from that conversation?
Speaker 2 (06:20):
You know, it's about gaining information about about the young
man and oftentimes watching him interact with his parents, seeing
the nature of their relationships that gives you an awesome
insight about that young man, or maybe the relationship that
he has with the game of football. It was obvious
(06:41):
that football was a family endeavored for them, and you
know people that that that displayed at generally you can't
break them. There's a commitment there, and that commitment has
been displayed throughout his career in terms of the quality
of it and the and the longevity of it. I'm
not surprised by it. He and they were all in
(07:01):
on football.
Speaker 1 (07:03):
Our parents usually forthcoming though in those kinds of situations,
or are they trying to promote their son?
Speaker 2 (07:09):
Yeah, I don't know that. I'm looking for them to
be forthcoming most of the time, to be quite honest
with you. Parents in that situation or seeking information from
guys like us, they're not trying to trick us or
to impress us. They realized that we hold information for
them and their child that could be helpful to their
(07:29):
child in terms of what he's pursuing. And so most
of the time they're good questions that come from those
football families, as I described, and that was the case
with Landa's parents. They had really good questions about the
business and what line it had for him, and it
was a sincere thing, and you could just tell that
(07:50):
he is well supported.
Speaker 1 (07:52):
James Pierre came up with a big interception against the Browns,
and last Tuesday you said everyone was happy for him
to get an opportunity to make that splash play for us,
because everybody sees the work that he puts in, how
selfless he is, what a good teammate he is. How
does James Pierre and others in his situation show selflessness?
Speaker 2 (08:13):
You know, this is not a patient man's business. I
never ask guys to be patient. Why they wait for
their opportunity to ask them to work while they wait
for their opportunity. Sometimes your opportunity is not given to
you based on what you do. Sometimes opportunity is born
out of the misfortune of others, whether injury or otherwise.
(08:34):
And so James is a guy man that works extremely
hard every day. He's highly competitive. Whether he is taking
defensive reps or whether he's taking scout team reps. His
mentality never changes. It allows him to get better. It
allows him to position himself and sharpen his sword for performance.
(08:55):
And so I don't know how many actual defensive reps
he got last week, but he got legit reps on
on the service teams, and he made a lot of
plays in that space. And I just think playmaking is
is habitual. You make enough plays, man, it becomes a
normal state. And that guy positions him positioned himself to
(09:15):
make that play that he made in a weighty moment
for us in that football game.
Speaker 1 (09:19):
You referred to Lane Johnson as the bell cow of
the Eagles offensive line. What is a bell cow of
the offensive line? And how does Lane Johnson fit that description?
Speaker 2 (09:29):
You know, from what I heard about him, man, he's
not only a leader on the field, he's a leader
off the field. He has a unique approach to training
over the course of a twelve month calendar, and a
lot of guys, Philadelphia Eagles and non Eagles, trained with him.
He uses mixed martial arts and things of that nature,
and his prep is what I heard over the years,
and I just think that oftentimes a bell cow is
(09:52):
just that they know who they are, they know what
their process looks like, and they're they're thoughtful enough to
includ and help others find their process and a mentor.
He's been doing it at a high level for a
long time. I've heard that about him in terms of
his teammates, not only in terms of the football or
(10:12):
the end game or the end season, but over the
course of a twelve month calendar, his relationship with the profession,
how he positions himself to play as effectively as he
does and has he shares that wisdom in that approach
as well.
Speaker 1 (10:28):
How would you compare and contrast the running styles of
Saquon Barkley and Derrick Henry very different.
Speaker 2 (10:35):
Both guys are big play capable because of their top
end speed, but Derrick Henry's number one asset is his size,
his ability to run through tackles in his stiff arm.
That free hand, that hand that doesn't have the ball
is a weapon for Derrick Henry. Oftentimes you'll see defensive
(10:55):
backs running alongside him for about ten yards trying to
figure out how to negotiate that. Saquan man has got
to make you miss. He's got lateral abilities in a
tight space area. He's both fast and quick. His stop
start is elite. That's dramatically different than Derrick Henry. But
(11:16):
obviously both guys are equally effective, and both guys are
a problem. It's just a different set of problems. The
thing that they share is that breakaway speed when they
get in the open grass and they can turn twenty
yard gains into seventy yard games. That's the common bond.
Speaker 1 (11:35):
Vic Fangio has a forty one year coaching career, thirty
three of those seasons at the NFL level. He has
been a defensive coordinator for twenty of the last twenty
four seasons in the NFL or college. What's his calling card.
He's an old dog man. He's been around, you know.
He has a mode of operation. He never gives up
(11:56):
easy things. He makes you earn it. He keeps a
lid on it. It's illustrated by the yards per game
that they give up. I think they're number one in
the NFL. It's illustrated by the number of yards per
game they give up in the passing game. They're number
two in the NFL. And he's doing that with two
rookies essentially in the lineup at nickel and at outside corner,
(12:19):
and so I think that's probably indicative of his reputation
over the years. You better be ready to earn it.
It's fundamentally sound. He's not going to give it up.
You got to operate. He's gonna make you drive the football.
He's not going to give you yards or plays or
points via chunks. A previous defensive coordinator with the Eagles,
(12:42):
Jim Johnson, worked under Andy Reid. How are he and
Vic Fangio different or maybe similar?
Speaker 2 (12:50):
Wow, man, you're going back there a few years. To
be quite honest with you, Man, you know, I don't
know that. I don't I was a defensive coach at
the time that Jimmy Onsen was in Philly, and so
I focus all my energies on offenses and offensive coordinators.
You know, I don't know that I studied his stuff
to be quite honest with you, significantly enough to appropriately
(13:14):
compare and contrast.
Speaker 1 (13:15):
It to That's the Mike Tomlin Game Day Podcast. Subscribe
and download new episodes every week and check out all
of the other shows we have to offer on the
Steelers Podcast Network that's available on the Steelers Mobile app,
the iHeartRadio app, or wherever you get your podcasts.
Popular Podcasts
Dateline NBC
Current and classic episodes, featuring compelling true-crime mysteries, powerful documentaries and in-depth investigations. Follow now to get the latest episodes of Dateline NBC completely free, or subscribe to Dateline Premium for ad-free listening and exclusive bonus content: DatelinePremium.com
24/7 News: The Latest
The latest news in 4 minutes updated every hour, every day.
Therapy Gecko
An unlicensed lizard psychologist travels the universe talking to strangers about absolutely nothing. TO CALL THE GECKO: follow me on https://www.twitch.tv/lyleforever to get a notification for when I am taking calls. I am usually live Mondays, Wednesdays, and Fridays but lately a lot of other times too. I am a gecko.