December 21, 2025 • 12 mins
Steelers Digest Editor, Bob Labriola sits down with Head Coach Mike Tomlin ahead of the Steelers week 16 against the Detroit Lions
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
He's the Mike Tomlin Game Day Podcast with Steelers Digest
editor Bob Labriola. Okay, coach, and the Monday Night went
over Miami. You were very aggressive early in that game
in terms of going forward on fourth down. It started
with a fourth and one at your twenty eight yard line,
then a fourth and three at the Dolphins forty one
yard line, then a fourth and one from the Dolphins
(00:21):
four yard line. Did you go into that game with
the mindset that you were going to go for it
on fourth downs or did you need to see certain
things from your team or Miami before making those decisions.
Speaker 2 (00:33):
You know, I try to always generally go in with
a hardcore plan, but be light of light enough on
my feet to adapt, and certainly that was the plan
for that game. During the Dolphin win streak, they were
dominating time of possession and averaging one hundred and ninety
two yards per game rushing, and so there were multiple
things that had to happen to quell that. First and foremost,
(00:53):
we had to play good run defense, and then we
had to possess the ball on the other side ourselves,
and so the schematic aggression was a component of that.
In an effort to minimize their possession of the football
and thus our exposure to their running game, and so
we could assault the mode in which they were creating
victory over the last month or so.
Speaker 1 (01:14):
The first two of those times when you went for
an on fourth down happened on the team's second offensive
possession of the game, which started at your own nineteen
yard line. In a situation like that, you give Arthur
Smith a heads up at the start of the possession
about your plans.
Speaker 2 (01:29):
You know, there's certainly conversations that happened at started a possession,
but all these conversations go back to Saturday evening and
I mean well Sunday evening and Monday, because that's just
how we construct our plan and have transparent discussions leading
up to kickoff.
Speaker 1 (01:47):
Three times during the first half you went with the Steelers'
version of the tush push. It's obvious why you wouldn't
want Aaron Rodgers being the one who gets pushed, and
so what made you settle on Connor Hayward as being
the right guy for that job.
Speaker 2 (02:01):
He's a trustworthy and versatile athlete. He does a lot
for us. He's done a lot over the course of
his football career. He's played running back at Michigan State.
He's just versatile. I remember when he came out of
high school. I thought he was going to be a linebacker.
And so a guy that has a versatile skill set
like that, that's a got good football awareness and feel
(02:23):
for the game. You just provide spaces for them to contribute,
and he certainly has done that in that area.
Speaker 1 (02:30):
Even though he's not getting pushed or doing any of
the pushing, Aaron Rodgers is still on the field and
lined up in the backfield behind the offense. What is
his what is his purpose during the tush push?
Speaker 2 (02:41):
You know you're telegraphing your attentions if you take the
quarterback off the field, and so not only us, but
in most instances that's why people leave the quarterback on
the field for wildcat and things of that nature. It
just minimizes the defense's time in terms of adjustment. You
break the huller, you come to the line of scrimmage,
(03:01):
they notice that the quarterback is and playing quarterback, and
then the ball snaps. If you sub them out for
a positional player, that provides additional time for them to
digest your intentions and thus construct a counterplan.
Speaker 1 (03:14):
There are twenty two players on the field for a
push push on both sides of the ball, but how
many of them are actually involved in whether the offense
makes the line to gain or the defense stops the play.
Speaker 2 (03:25):
It's generally probably a maximum of six on either side
of the ball. The A and B got players on
defense and the two linebackers behind them. There are the
other five players. Generally two of those are providing the
edge and the other three are providing the perimeter contour
that comprises the secondary, and similar things can be said
(03:47):
about the offense. They're about five to six guys that
are that are central to to the push component of it,
and others are securing the perimeter and the out a perimeter,
if you will.
Speaker 1 (04:01):
How can something like that play be practiced and still
adhere to the regular season practice rules outlined in the
collective bargaining agreement?
Speaker 2 (04:10):
You know, because it's about timing and pad level, and
certainly you don't have to execute the play against an opponent.
To hone those skills on both sides of the ball,
the people at the bottom of the push man the
pad level and running of their feet is critical. You
can do that with two by fours running across the
(04:31):
gym floor like we used to do when I was
in high school man to teach pad level, for example.
And then the timing component is about precision. On offense,
sometimes you proceed fast, sometimes you domicate it some and
do some things to try to get a free set
of downs. And on defense, it's about ignoring all of
those things and being ball key ready.
Speaker 1 (04:52):
After the way Dylan Cook played against the Dolphins, are
you willing to say he's the answer at left tackle
for the rest of this season? Or do you just
see him as someone capable of filling in until Andres
Pete clears the concussion protocol.
Speaker 2 (05:06):
Not so fast, you know, I don't know if I'm
ready to annoint anybody for the rest of the season.
That's just the urgency in which we're living right now
is weekend and week out. And certainly he did enough,
and I'm thankful for his contributions in the construction of
victory on Monday night. He'll start and play this weekend
and we'll see where it leads.
Speaker 1 (05:25):
Is Lions coach Dan Campbell was an NFL tight end
for ten seasons for three different teams. The New York
Giants Dallas and Detroit, and you went against him four
times as a secondary coach in Tampa and a defensive
coordinator in Minnesota. What kind of player was he and
in what ways is he the same kind of coach?
Speaker 2 (05:45):
You know, that's a very good and interesting question. Man,
he played with great intensity. He was about that combat.
As we say, he was a point of attack blocker.
He was the type of guy, particularly in the air
which he played. There were a lot of four to
three teams, a lot of tight ends side running game,
two back running game, and things of that nature, and
(06:07):
so your tight end had to be an absolute man,
and he certainly was that. Statistics probably doesn't outline the
success he had in his career because he was a
heck of a point of attack blocker and finisher. And
the Detroit Lions reflect that in personality, and I think
he coaches with the aggression that he played with, and
(06:29):
I think that's why they've been able to turn that
thing and have a level of consistency and success during
his time there.
Speaker 1 (06:37):
Hank Fraley is Detroit's offensive line coach and run game coordinator,
and before he got into coaching, he was an NFL
center for ten seasons. And you came across him as
an assistant coach when he was a starter for the
Eagles and as a head coach when he was a
starter for the Browns. What kind of player was he
and in what ways is he the same kind of coach?
Speaker 2 (06:57):
When I heard that Dan hired Hank, it made sense
to me because very similar football character, effort, guys, finishers,
guys that do the things that you can't measure. I
remember him from his time in Philadelphia as a secondary
coach of the Bucks oftentimes been the NFC Championship. You know,
(07:19):
we were involved in some battles with those guys, and
as a secondary coachman, I always told my dbs to
be careful around the power because Hank was coming.
Speaker 1 (07:30):
You know.
Speaker 2 (07:30):
There have been some rules that have evolved over the
years that minimize some of that, but I feel that
spirit in his offensive line group and as a run
game coordinator. In the run game and their commitment to it,
it's a perfect marriage between Coach Campbell and Hank. And
I think that the consistency of which they've run the
(07:50):
ball and the amount of success that they've had twenty
one rushing touchdowns this year from their running back tandem
is an indication of that commitment. They're doing a heck
of a job. I respect it.
Speaker 1 (08:01):
With freely as the Lion's run game coordinator. Is there
anything different or special in Detroit's approach to running the football?
Speaker 2 (08:09):
They're not trying to trick you. That's not Hank style,
that's not Campbell's styles. Frontal assault, if you will, is
win by attrition, and I certainly can respect and do respect.
Speaker 1 (08:20):
That Jamiir Gibbs has far more carries in yards than
David Montgomery. How do the Lions utilize each of those
running backs?
Speaker 2 (08:28):
You know, it was probably a more even division of labor,
but less so of late, and that happens sometimes when
you change play callers. I guess about six weeks ago
coach Campbell absorbed the play calling, and to be quite honest,
as a head coach, he's probably less beholding to any
of those guys in terms of distribution of the ball.
(08:48):
Some guys benefit, some guys lose, And certainly you feel
his affinity for Gibbs and what he brings since he's
been calling, But also you feel an uptick in the
contributions of Williams at the receiver position since he's been calling,
but that also could be a component of the lack
(09:09):
of Laporta as well. And so we've really focused a
lot on the schematics since he's been calling it, because
every play caller is different. It can be the same playbook,
but every play caller is different. And certainly the uptick
and work for Gibbs and maybe the decrease and work
for Montgomery can be traced to Coach Campbell calling it.
Speaker 1 (09:29):
You mentioned Jamison Williams. He's one of the two wide receivers,
one of their top two wide receivers along with Aman
Ross Saint Brown. How are they utilized in? What areas
of the field did they specialize in?
Speaker 2 (09:43):
You know, they both guys get a lot of touches,
particularly of late, since since Coach Campbell's have been calling
it, it's been more even you felt Saint Brown moore at
the early portions of the season when he wasn't calling it,
particularly in the red area and some of those things
you saw some schematics geared toward him. It's more balanced now,
and I guess that's what I was referring to in
(10:03):
our earlier conversation when I said Coach Campbell's probably a
little bit less beholden to any of that. He's just
trying to move the ball and score points and utilize
all his weapons, and you certainly feel that. But they're
a formidable tandem, those two guys. It's a lot of
football over the last five for six weeks or so
since he's been calling it, going through that tandem in Gibbs.
(10:24):
It's about those three guys and just about any and
all circumstances, and we better do a good job of
being thoughtful about working to minimize them.
Speaker 1 (10:33):
For the second straight week, you're facing an opponent and
a situation where a loss eliminates them from the playoffs.
Does your team have to match the lines desperation today?
Speaker 2 (10:43):
You know we're desperate. It's that time of year. I
respect the position of those that we compete against, but
it's more about us in our journey. There's urgency in
our journey, the roads getting narrow. We feel that urgency.
We need to play with that spirit. I don't talk
a lot about the status of the other group. It's
assumed is that time of year. It's like musical chairs.
(11:08):
This time of year, you walk in the stadiums, two
teams walk into a stadium, and sometimes one team walks out,
and I have respect for that. I think our team
is educated in that way. We're interested, obviously in maintaining
and improving our position, and that's our mindset.
Speaker 1 (11:24):
If the Steelers walk off the field this evening with
a victory, what is most likely to have happened to
contribute to that outcome.
Speaker 2 (11:32):
That we've done a good job of minimizing explosion plays
of their offense. I think explosion plays are a life
blood at their offense. They average six a game, twenty
plus yard plays run or pass. They got a home
run hitter at running back, they got a receiver tandem
that we've talked about that's formidable. And so we certainly
have to minimize explosion plays. And on the other side
(11:54):
of the ball, we got to play good situational defense.
Golf is special. Actual year, he's completing seventy percent of
his passes, he's getting rid of the ball on time,
and all of those things down in and down out.
You're not gonna win all of those downs, but the
weighty ones, possession downs, red zone, making them settle for three,
(12:17):
and things of that nature. The situational play we have
to excel.
Speaker 1 (12:20):
In that's the Mike Tomlin Game Day Podcast. Subscribe and
download new episodes every week and check out all of
the other shows we have to offer on the Steelers
Podcast Network that's available on the Steelers Mobile app, the
iHeartRadio app, or wherever you get your podcasts.
He's the Mike Tomlin Game Day Podcast with Steelers Digest
editor Bob Labriola. Okay, coach, and the Monday Night went
over Miami. You were very aggressive early in that game
in terms of going forward on fourth down. It started
with a fourth and one at your twenty eight yard line,
then a fourth and three at the Dolphins forty one
yard line, then a fourth and one from the Dolphins
(00:21):
four yard line. Did you go into that game with
the mindset that you were going to go for it
on fourth downs or did you need to see certain
things from your team or Miami before making those decisions.
Speaker 2 (00:33):
You know, I try to always generally go in with
a hardcore plan, but be light of light enough on
my feet to adapt, and certainly that was the plan
for that game. During the Dolphin win streak, they were
dominating time of possession and averaging one hundred and ninety
two yards per game rushing, and so there were multiple
things that had to happen to quell that. First and foremost,
(00:53):
we had to play good run defense, and then we
had to possess the ball on the other side ourselves,
and so the schematic aggression was a component of that.
In an effort to minimize their possession of the football
and thus our exposure to their running game, and so
we could assault the mode in which they were creating
victory over the last month or so.
Speaker 1 (01:14):
The first two of those times when you went for
an on fourth down happened on the team's second offensive
possession of the game, which started at your own nineteen
yard line. In a situation like that, you give Arthur
Smith a heads up at the start of the possession
about your plans.
Speaker 2 (01:29):
You know, there's certainly conversations that happened at started a possession,
but all these conversations go back to Saturday evening and
I mean well Sunday evening and Monday, because that's just
how we construct our plan and have transparent discussions leading
up to kickoff.
Speaker 1 (01:47):
Three times during the first half you went with the Steelers'
version of the tush push. It's obvious why you wouldn't
want Aaron Rodgers being the one who gets pushed, and
so what made you settle on Connor Hayward as being
the right guy for that job.
Speaker 2 (02:01):
He's a trustworthy and versatile athlete. He does a lot
for us. He's done a lot over the course of
his football career. He's played running back at Michigan State.
He's just versatile. I remember when he came out of
high school. I thought he was going to be a linebacker.
And so a guy that has a versatile skill set
like that, that's a got good football awareness and feel
(02:23):
for the game. You just provide spaces for them to contribute,
and he certainly has done that in that area.
Speaker 1 (02:30):
Even though he's not getting pushed or doing any of
the pushing, Aaron Rodgers is still on the field and
lined up in the backfield behind the offense. What is
his what is his purpose during the tush push?
Speaker 2 (02:41):
You know you're telegraphing your attentions if you take the
quarterback off the field, and so not only us, but
in most instances that's why people leave the quarterback on
the field for wildcat and things of that nature. It
just minimizes the defense's time in terms of adjustment. You
break the huller, you come to the line of scrimmage,
(03:01):
they notice that the quarterback is and playing quarterback, and
then the ball snaps. If you sub them out for
a positional player, that provides additional time for them to
digest your intentions and thus construct a counterplan.
Speaker 1 (03:14):
There are twenty two players on the field for a
push push on both sides of the ball, but how
many of them are actually involved in whether the offense
makes the line to gain or the defense stops the play.
Speaker 2 (03:25):
It's generally probably a maximum of six on either side
of the ball. The A and B got players on
defense and the two linebackers behind them. There are the
other five players. Generally two of those are providing the
edge and the other three are providing the perimeter contour
that comprises the secondary, and similar things can be said
(03:47):
about the offense. They're about five to six guys that
are that are central to to the push component of it,
and others are securing the perimeter and the out a perimeter,
if you will.
Speaker 1 (04:01):
How can something like that play be practiced and still
adhere to the regular season practice rules outlined in the
collective bargaining agreement?
Speaker 2 (04:10):
You know, because it's about timing and pad level, and
certainly you don't have to execute the play against an opponent.
To hone those skills on both sides of the ball,
the people at the bottom of the push man the
pad level and running of their feet is critical. You
can do that with two by fours running across the
(04:31):
gym floor like we used to do when I was
in high school man to teach pad level, for example.
And then the timing component is about precision. On offense,
sometimes you proceed fast, sometimes you domicate it some and
do some things to try to get a free set
of downs. And on defense, it's about ignoring all of
those things and being ball key ready.
Speaker 1 (04:52):
After the way Dylan Cook played against the Dolphins, are
you willing to say he's the answer at left tackle
for the rest of this season? Or do you just
see him as someone capable of filling in until Andres
Pete clears the concussion protocol.
Speaker 2 (05:06):
Not so fast, you know, I don't know if I'm
ready to annoint anybody for the rest of the season.
That's just the urgency in which we're living right now
is weekend and week out. And certainly he did enough,
and I'm thankful for his contributions in the construction of
victory on Monday night. He'll start and play this weekend
and we'll see where it leads.
Speaker 1 (05:25):
Is Lions coach Dan Campbell was an NFL tight end
for ten seasons for three different teams. The New York
Giants Dallas and Detroit, and you went against him four
times as a secondary coach in Tampa and a defensive
coordinator in Minnesota. What kind of player was he and
in what ways is he the same kind of coach?
Speaker 2 (05:45):
You know, that's a very good and interesting question. Man,
he played with great intensity. He was about that combat.
As we say, he was a point of attack blocker.
He was the type of guy, particularly in the air
which he played. There were a lot of four to
three teams, a lot of tight ends side running game,
two back running game, and things of that nature, and
(06:07):
so your tight end had to be an absolute man,
and he certainly was that. Statistics probably doesn't outline the
success he had in his career because he was a
heck of a point of attack blocker and finisher. And
the Detroit Lions reflect that in personality, and I think
he coaches with the aggression that he played with, and
(06:29):
I think that's why they've been able to turn that
thing and have a level of consistency and success during
his time there.
Speaker 1 (06:37):
Hank Fraley is Detroit's offensive line coach and run game coordinator,
and before he got into coaching, he was an NFL
center for ten seasons. And you came across him as
an assistant coach when he was a starter for the
Eagles and as a head coach when he was a
starter for the Browns. What kind of player was he
and in what ways is he the same kind of coach?
Speaker 2 (06:57):
When I heard that Dan hired Hank, it made sense
to me because very similar football character, effort, guys, finishers,
guys that do the things that you can't measure. I
remember him from his time in Philadelphia as a secondary
coach of the Bucks oftentimes been the NFC Championship. You know,
(07:19):
we were involved in some battles with those guys, and
as a secondary coachman, I always told my dbs to
be careful around the power because Hank was coming.
Speaker 1 (07:30):
You know.
Speaker 2 (07:30):
There have been some rules that have evolved over the
years that minimize some of that, but I feel that
spirit in his offensive line group and as a run
game coordinator. In the run game and their commitment to it,
it's a perfect marriage between Coach Campbell and Hank. And
I think that the consistency of which they've run the
(07:50):
ball and the amount of success that they've had twenty
one rushing touchdowns this year from their running back tandem
is an indication of that commitment. They're doing a heck
of a job. I respect it.
Speaker 1 (08:01):
With freely as the Lion's run game coordinator. Is there
anything different or special in Detroit's approach to running the football?
Speaker 2 (08:09):
They're not trying to trick you. That's not Hank style,
that's not Campbell's styles. Frontal assault, if you will, is
win by attrition, and I certainly can respect and do respect.
Speaker 1 (08:20):
That Jamiir Gibbs has far more carries in yards than
David Montgomery. How do the Lions utilize each of those
running backs?
Speaker 2 (08:28):
You know, it was probably a more even division of labor,
but less so of late, and that happens sometimes when
you change play callers. I guess about six weeks ago
coach Campbell absorbed the play calling, and to be quite honest,
as a head coach, he's probably less beholding to any
of those guys in terms of distribution of the ball.
(08:48):
Some guys benefit, some guys lose, And certainly you feel
his affinity for Gibbs and what he brings since he's
been calling, But also you feel an uptick in the
contributions of Williams at the receiver position since he's been calling,
but that also could be a component of the lack
(09:09):
of Laporta as well. And so we've really focused a
lot on the schematics since he's been calling it, because
every play caller is different. It can be the same playbook,
but every play caller is different. And certainly the uptick
and work for Gibbs and maybe the decrease and work
for Montgomery can be traced to Coach Campbell calling it.
Speaker 1 (09:29):
You mentioned Jamison Williams. He's one of the two wide receivers,
one of their top two wide receivers along with Aman
Ross Saint Brown. How are they utilized in? What areas
of the field did they specialize in?
Speaker 2 (09:43):
You know, they both guys get a lot of touches,
particularly of late, since since Coach Campbell's have been calling
it, it's been more even you felt Saint Brown moore at
the early portions of the season when he wasn't calling it,
particularly in the red area and some of those things
you saw some schematics geared toward him. It's more balanced now,
and I guess that's what I was referring to in
(10:03):
our earlier conversation when I said Coach Campbell's probably a
little bit less beholden to any of that. He's just
trying to move the ball and score points and utilize
all his weapons, and you certainly feel that. But they're
a formidable tandem, those two guys. It's a lot of
football over the last five for six weeks or so
since he's been calling it, going through that tandem in Gibbs.
(10:24):
It's about those three guys and just about any and
all circumstances, and we better do a good job of
being thoughtful about working to minimize them.
Speaker 1 (10:33):
For the second straight week, you're facing an opponent and
a situation where a loss eliminates them from the playoffs.
Does your team have to match the lines desperation today?
Speaker 2 (10:43):
You know we're desperate. It's that time of year. I
respect the position of those that we compete against, but
it's more about us in our journey. There's urgency in
our journey, the roads getting narrow. We feel that urgency.
We need to play with that spirit. I don't talk
a lot about the status of the other group. It's
assumed is that time of year. It's like musical chairs.
(11:08):
This time of year, you walk in the stadiums, two
teams walk into a stadium, and sometimes one team walks out,
and I have respect for that. I think our team
is educated in that way. We're interested, obviously in maintaining
and improving our position, and that's our mindset.
Speaker 1 (11:24):
If the Steelers walk off the field this evening with
a victory, what is most likely to have happened to
contribute to that outcome.
Speaker 2 (11:32):
That we've done a good job of minimizing explosion plays
of their offense. I think explosion plays are a life
blood at their offense. They average six a game, twenty
plus yard plays run or pass. They got a home
run hitter at running back, they got a receiver tandem
that we've talked about that's formidable. And so we certainly
have to minimize explosion plays. And on the other side
(11:54):
of the ball, we got to play good situational defense.
Golf is special. Actual year, he's completing seventy percent of
his passes, he's getting rid of the ball on time,
and all of those things down in and down out.
You're not gonna win all of those downs, but the
weighty ones, possession downs, red zone, making them settle for three,
(12:17):
and things of that nature. The situational play we have
to excel.
Speaker 1 (12:20):
In that's the Mike Tomlin Game Day Podcast. Subscribe and
download new episodes every week and check out all of
the other shows we have to offer on the Steelers
Podcast Network that's available on the Steelers Mobile app, the
iHeartRadio app, or wherever you get your podcasts.
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