December 25, 2024 • 12 mins
Steelers Historian, Bob Labriola sits down with Head Coach Mike Tomlin ahead of the Steelers Week 17 matchup against the Kansas City Chiefs
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
He's the Mike Tomlin Gaing Day podcast with Steelers Digest
editor Bob Labriola. Okay, coach, in reviewing the game in Baltimore,
during your news conference, you said, I was really displeased
with the two red zone touchdowns, for example, to the
tight ends. It's just too late in the year to
have guys running open like that. Okay. So from the
defense's perspective, how is that supposed to work? Is there
(00:23):
verbal communication as to who's supposed to cover whom? Is
it an automatic based on the defensive call in the
offensive formation, or is it something else? Really, it's kind
of all of the above. At this juncture of the season.
Speaker 2 (00:36):
Per call, you should be able to execute that without
any level of communication. We should just be drilled enough.
When that gets handled fluidly, you reinforce it with verbal
and non verbal or hands signal communication. But that's just
a reinforcement as things unfold prior to the snap, whether
they created by motion or shifts or otherwise, and so
(00:58):
you know, it's really all of a and that's why
I expressed it as disappointment. We should be drilled enough
what we could do it without communication, and then we
reinforce that with verbal and nonverbal depending on the opportunity,
and so they have all the tools at their disposal
to get those route combinations covered.
Speaker 1 (01:16):
I mean it would seem to me that down there
in that situation, you can't do a man demand thing.
You almost have to be zoning it right.
Speaker 2 (01:27):
If you play top notched quarterbacks who have relationships with eligibles,
you're forced to play man zones lose and line the
game circumstances or enclosed quarters versus cohesion relationships expertise, Like
if you play zone against Patrick Mahomes and Travis Kelce,
it's routes on air, they're gonna saw you up and
(01:48):
so you have to play man or relatable zones, and
those are those require some adjustments, some communication, and that's
the cat and mouse game that we play at this level.
That's why I refer to this, Yes, not checkers. Zones
get your beat because of arm talent and relationships. Mans
require a bunch of communication and coordination from defenders and
(02:12):
understanding that they operate as a collective.
Speaker 1 (02:15):
As of today, Pat Fryarmouth has been targeted sixty two
times this season and he has fifty three catches for
five hundred and twenty four yards. That's a nine point
nine average and six touchdowns. And in the three games
George Pickens missed with a hamstring injury, Fiarmuth caught three
passes in each game. How would you characterize those numbers?
Speaker 2 (02:35):
You know, sometimes they're you know, reflective of a lot
of things. You can play games with numbers. Sometimes there's
a real conversation there. The lack of George Pickens creates
schematic adjustments and focus on pratt firemove or sometimes in
a small sample size, we didn't convert enough third downs
and so we didn't play enough snaps. Thus you could
(02:56):
describe the run game as not gaining traction or any
individual within the collective of not getting enough opportunity. And
really the issue is just number of snaps because you
didn't win enough possession downs and so on a small
sample size, you could play a lot of games with numbers.
The reality is is that Muth is a major component
of what we do, a central figure in terms of
(03:17):
control in the middle of the field, particularly in weighty moments,
red zone, possession down play. And sometimes his numbers are
altered by a variety or a myriad of variables, and
most of them are interrelated because these are complex discussions.
Speaker 1 (03:31):
On the Russell Wilson run to the goal line in
the game against the Ravens, would you rather he slid
instead of going for the end zone in that situation.
Speaker 2 (03:40):
Based on the results, Yes, But the competitor and me
and the competitor in him. You know, we play and
we play to win, and so I never want to
take away the natural instincts of a man, and so
I generally coach around it. And so we coach ball
security and not competitiveness, quelling competitiveness or judgment and weighty moments.
(04:04):
And so I think the real answer there is in
the fundamentals around ball security and not whether or not
he slid or went for the went for the end zone.
Speaker 1 (04:14):
You just mentioned this. You know, playing and playing to win,
But are there instances when the winning play isn't necessarily
the most aggressive.
Speaker 2 (04:22):
No doubt, man, there's you know, there's rules and axioms
of the game that we live by. You never reached
the ball for the goal line or a line to
gain unless it's a fourth down, for example. But those
are born out of people playing and playing to win
and negative things happening. Over the years. You learn and
you build rules based on experience, some of them yours,
(04:43):
some of them others. In what you learn from the
bottom line is, you know there's a natural aggressiveness associated
with the pursuit of victory. I never want to quell that.
I want to manage that and managed it prudently. And
so based on my experience or things that we've learned from,
we come up with rules that kind of put somewhat
of a governor on it. But at the end of
(05:05):
the day, man, you know, these guys are racehorses, man,
and you want them to run. You want them playing
and planning to win and making aggressive, split second decisions.
And generally I'm in support of that.
Speaker 1 (05:17):
It seems to me the Chiefs coach Andy Reid is
a lock for a gold jacket when he decides to
retire from football. And you went against him twice when
he was in Philadelphia, eight times since he went to
Kansas City. So in terms of preparing for and competing
against his teams, has he changed much from when he
was the Eagles coach to now being the Chiefs coach.
Speaker 2 (05:37):
From a competitor's perspective, he's changed very little. I'm a
Franklin planner guy over the years. You know, I'm an
archivist in a lot of ways, and I can open
up a Franklin planner from two thousand and two and
look at the NFC Championship. My NFC Championship notes. I
was a secondary coach of the Tampa Bay Buccaneers, man,
(06:01):
and it is amazing some of the things that captured
my attention twenty two years ago are still capturing my attention.
Regarding minimizing his strategy and schematic approach to business. We
talk about a generation later. You know, now he has
Patrick Mahomes, then he had Donovan McNabb. The names and
(06:22):
faces changed, Man, but a lot of the things remain
the same. The unique relationship between the quarterback and tight end.
For instance, in Philadelphia had a guy named Chad lewis
Man who's a major component of what they did in
the very same way that Travis Kelsey is a major
component of what they do in Kansas City. And so
you know, it's eerily similar. But I think that's reflective
(06:46):
of the gold jacket that you mentioned, because he has
a mode of operation, has tried and tested. It's plug
and play, that experience, that divisional labor that approached the
business has won him a lot of games over the years,
and he just plugging in new bodies and evolving with
the trends of the game. But it's still very much
(07:09):
the things his core values that he believes in.
Speaker 1 (07:13):
Back in twenty seventeen, what was your take on a
Texas Tech quarterback named Patrick Mahomes during your prep for
that year's For that year's NFL.
Speaker 2 (07:21):
Draft, I remember specifically that Kevin Colbert was extremely high
on him. You know, I was halfway paying attention because
we had Big Ben kind of in his prime at
that time, and so it was window shopping for me.
I tended to focus my energy on other more significant
(07:42):
or more immediate help. I remember specifically. I think in
that draft class, I was looking at the edge rushman
because we got a guy by the name of t J. Watt.
But Kevin I remember very specifically. He always did his
due diligence and he was sky high on on Mahomes,
and I just remember him specifically talking about his release
(08:05):
points and the fact that he could throw the ball
on the move and from a variety of angles and
body positions. Talked about his baseball background, the fact that
his dad was a former MLB player Kevin was on
that when he was extremely high on Pat Mahomes.
Speaker 1 (08:21):
In talking about Bengals quarterback Joe Burrow before your trip
to Cincinnati a few weeks ago, you said it was
important to have enough defense for him not to run
out of schematics come the fourth quarter. Does that also
apply today for Mahomes.
Speaker 2 (08:36):
No question. Any of the elite quarterbacks who have continuity
within their system of offense where they know all their piece,
where all their pieces are, and they have an understanding
of what they're trying to get done, and they have
time experience on the job, you better have enough defense.
You better not run out of defense. And so certainly
he falls into that category.
Speaker 1 (08:56):
What would you list as mahomes most underrated quality?
Speaker 2 (09:00):
His in general feel for the game. He can keep
his eyes down, feel and feel the rush, feel escape
lanes by time. His ability to run parallel to the
line of scrimmage at times or release the ball just
as he's scrambling too and beyond the line of scrimmage.
His spatial relationship component, his feel for space, his feel
(09:25):
for space in the pocket, whether it's the rush or
where he is. All of that lends itself to the
unique plays that he creates in those extended play moments.
Speaker 1 (09:35):
Travis Kelcey, the tight end, is thirty five years old.
Leads the Chiefs in targets with one hundred and twenty two,
which is thirty three more than the next targeted next
highest targeted receiver on that team. What makes him danger
still at that age his unselfishness.
Speaker 2 (09:51):
You mentioned him in regards to his targets, But man,
this guy plays the game without the ball in his hand.
He is so aware of what's going on around him,
route distributions. He is an absolute zone killer and man
the man he can win, He can beat his man,
he can utilize himself and his man in an effort
(10:12):
to rub for others. He just plays a well rounded game.
And he's also a guy that's been in the system
for a long time and understands it inside and out
and his role in it. And it is displayed in
the quality of his play and beyond targets and catches,
he impacts the game in a lot of ways.
Speaker 1 (10:33):
In recent weeks, your team has gone against Jim Schwartz
with Cleveland, Vic Fangio with Philadelphia, Dean Ps with Baltimore.
Today it's Chiefs defensive coordinator Steve Spagnola, who's the only
coordinator in NFL history to win Super Bowls with two
different teams. What's the personality of a Steve Spagnola defense man?
Speaker 2 (10:54):
They're aggressive Schematically, they're pressure group and first and second down,
the seventh in the league in terms of the amount
of pressure that they bring five or more rushers on
third down of possession downs, the number two in the
league in terms of the amount of pressure they bring.
You couple those two scenarios together, they are an elite
tip top pressure group in terms of the amount of
(11:14):
pressure that they bring. You couple that with Another characteristic
of Steve's defenses is that they're well coordinated and good
from a pre snap disguise standpoint. That's what creates the
havoc that has allowed him to win super Bowls in
multiple cities. As you mentioned, the collective that we've gone
through in recent weeks, Man, that's a very experienced group.
(11:36):
All of those guys have been in the league as
long as I've been in the league. They're very good
at what they do. There's no secret why they've been
able to sustain and that's why we've been in some
challenging circumstances, but this time of year, those are the
type of circumstances and stadiums that you want to be
in as the road gets narrow. You want to know
that you're sharpening your sword, you know where you are,
you're making the necessary adjustments, or you're winning in the
(11:58):
ways that you need to win this time of year
to prepare yourself for January football.
Speaker 1 (12:03):
That's the Mike Tomlin Game Day Podcast. Subscribe and download
new episodes every week and check out all of the
other shows we have to offer on the Steelers podcast
network that's available on the Steelers Mobile app, the iHeartRadio app,
or wherever you get your podcasts.
He's the Mike Tomlin Gaing Day podcast with Steelers Digest
editor Bob Labriola. Okay, coach, in reviewing the game in Baltimore,
during your news conference, you said, I was really displeased
with the two red zone touchdowns, for example, to the
tight ends. It's just too late in the year to
have guys running open like that. Okay. So from the
defense's perspective, how is that supposed to work? Is there
(00:23):
verbal communication as to who's supposed to cover whom? Is
it an automatic based on the defensive call in the
offensive formation, or is it something else? Really, it's kind
of all of the above. At this juncture of the season.
Speaker 2 (00:36):
Per call, you should be able to execute that without
any level of communication. We should just be drilled enough.
When that gets handled fluidly, you reinforce it with verbal
and non verbal or hands signal communication. But that's just
a reinforcement as things unfold prior to the snap, whether
they created by motion or shifts or otherwise, and so
(00:58):
you know, it's really all of a and that's why
I expressed it as disappointment. We should be drilled enough
what we could do it without communication, and then we
reinforce that with verbal and nonverbal depending on the opportunity,
and so they have all the tools at their disposal
to get those route combinations covered.
Speaker 1 (01:16):
I mean it would seem to me that down there
in that situation, you can't do a man demand thing.
You almost have to be zoning it right.
Speaker 2 (01:27):
If you play top notched quarterbacks who have relationships with eligibles,
you're forced to play man zones lose and line the
game circumstances or enclosed quarters versus cohesion relationships expertise, Like
if you play zone against Patrick Mahomes and Travis Kelce,
it's routes on air, they're gonna saw you up and
(01:48):
so you have to play man or relatable zones, and
those are those require some adjustments, some communication, and that's
the cat and mouse game that we play at this level.
That's why I refer to this, Yes, not checkers. Zones
get your beat because of arm talent and relationships. Mans
require a bunch of communication and coordination from defenders and
(02:12):
understanding that they operate as a collective.
Speaker 1 (02:15):
As of today, Pat Fryarmouth has been targeted sixty two
times this season and he has fifty three catches for
five hundred and twenty four yards. That's a nine point
nine average and six touchdowns. And in the three games
George Pickens missed with a hamstring injury, Fiarmuth caught three
passes in each game. How would you characterize those numbers?
Speaker 2 (02:35):
You know, sometimes they're you know, reflective of a lot
of things. You can play games with numbers. Sometimes there's
a real conversation there. The lack of George Pickens creates
schematic adjustments and focus on pratt firemove or sometimes in
a small sample size, we didn't convert enough third downs
and so we didn't play enough snaps. Thus you could
(02:56):
describe the run game as not gaining traction or any
individual within the collective of not getting enough opportunity. And
really the issue is just number of snaps because you
didn't win enough possession downs and so on a small
sample size, you could play a lot of games with numbers.
The reality is is that Muth is a major component
of what we do, a central figure in terms of
(03:17):
control in the middle of the field, particularly in weighty moments,
red zone, possession down play. And sometimes his numbers are
altered by a variety or a myriad of variables, and
most of them are interrelated because these are complex discussions.
Speaker 1 (03:31):
On the Russell Wilson run to the goal line in
the game against the Ravens, would you rather he slid
instead of going for the end zone in that situation.
Speaker 2 (03:40):
Based on the results, Yes, But the competitor and me
and the competitor in him. You know, we play and
we play to win, and so I never want to
take away the natural instincts of a man, and so
I generally coach around it. And so we coach ball
security and not competitiveness, quelling competitiveness or judgment and weighty moments.
(04:04):
And so I think the real answer there is in
the fundamentals around ball security and not whether or not
he slid or went for the went for the end zone.
Speaker 1 (04:14):
You just mentioned this. You know, playing and playing to win,
But are there instances when the winning play isn't necessarily
the most aggressive.
Speaker 2 (04:22):
No doubt, man, there's you know, there's rules and axioms
of the game that we live by. You never reached
the ball for the goal line or a line to
gain unless it's a fourth down, for example. But those
are born out of people playing and playing to win
and negative things happening. Over the years. You learn and
you build rules based on experience, some of them yours,
(04:43):
some of them others. In what you learn from the
bottom line is, you know there's a natural aggressiveness associated
with the pursuit of victory. I never want to quell that.
I want to manage that and managed it prudently. And
so based on my experience or things that we've learned from,
we come up with rules that kind of put somewhat
of a governor on it. But at the end of
(05:05):
the day, man, you know, these guys are racehorses, man,
and you want them to run. You want them playing
and planning to win and making aggressive, split second decisions.
And generally I'm in support of that.
Speaker 1 (05:17):
It seems to me the Chiefs coach Andy Reid is
a lock for a gold jacket when he decides to
retire from football. And you went against him twice when
he was in Philadelphia, eight times since he went to
Kansas City. So in terms of preparing for and competing
against his teams, has he changed much from when he
was the Eagles coach to now being the Chiefs coach.
Speaker 2 (05:37):
From a competitor's perspective, he's changed very little. I'm a
Franklin planner guy over the years. You know, I'm an
archivist in a lot of ways, and I can open
up a Franklin planner from two thousand and two and
look at the NFC Championship. My NFC Championship notes. I
was a secondary coach of the Tampa Bay Buccaneers, man,
(06:01):
and it is amazing some of the things that captured
my attention twenty two years ago are still capturing my attention.
Regarding minimizing his strategy and schematic approach to business. We
talk about a generation later. You know, now he has
Patrick Mahomes, then he had Donovan McNabb. The names and
(06:22):
faces changed, Man, but a lot of the things remain
the same. The unique relationship between the quarterback and tight end.
For instance, in Philadelphia had a guy named Chad lewis
Man who's a major component of what they did in
the very same way that Travis Kelsey is a major
component of what they do in Kansas City. And so
you know, it's eerily similar. But I think that's reflective
(06:46):
of the gold jacket that you mentioned, because he has
a mode of operation, has tried and tested. It's plug
and play, that experience, that divisional labor that approached the
business has won him a lot of games over the years,
and he just plugging in new bodies and evolving with
the trends of the game. But it's still very much
(07:09):
the things his core values that he believes in.
Speaker 1 (07:13):
Back in twenty seventeen, what was your take on a
Texas Tech quarterback named Patrick Mahomes during your prep for
that year's For that year's NFL.
Speaker 2 (07:21):
Draft, I remember specifically that Kevin Colbert was extremely high
on him. You know, I was halfway paying attention because
we had Big Ben kind of in his prime at
that time, and so it was window shopping for me.
I tended to focus my energy on other more significant
(07:42):
or more immediate help. I remember specifically. I think in
that draft class, I was looking at the edge rushman
because we got a guy by the name of t J. Watt.
But Kevin I remember very specifically. He always did his
due diligence and he was sky high on on Mahomes,
and I just remember him specifically talking about his release
(08:05):
points and the fact that he could throw the ball
on the move and from a variety of angles and
body positions. Talked about his baseball background, the fact that
his dad was a former MLB player Kevin was on
that when he was extremely high on Pat Mahomes.
Speaker 1 (08:21):
In talking about Bengals quarterback Joe Burrow before your trip
to Cincinnati a few weeks ago, you said it was
important to have enough defense for him not to run
out of schematics come the fourth quarter. Does that also
apply today for Mahomes.
Speaker 2 (08:36):
No question. Any of the elite quarterbacks who have continuity
within their system of offense where they know all their piece,
where all their pieces are, and they have an understanding
of what they're trying to get done, and they have
time experience on the job, you better have enough defense.
You better not run out of defense. And so certainly
he falls into that category.
Speaker 1 (08:56):
What would you list as mahomes most underrated quality?
Speaker 2 (09:00):
His in general feel for the game. He can keep
his eyes down, feel and feel the rush, feel escape
lanes by time. His ability to run parallel to the
line of scrimmage at times or release the ball just
as he's scrambling too and beyond the line of scrimmage.
His spatial relationship component, his feel for space, his feel
(09:25):
for space in the pocket, whether it's the rush or
where he is. All of that lends itself to the
unique plays that he creates in those extended play moments.
Speaker 1 (09:35):
Travis Kelcey, the tight end, is thirty five years old.
Leads the Chiefs in targets with one hundred and twenty two,
which is thirty three more than the next targeted next
highest targeted receiver on that team. What makes him danger
still at that age his unselfishness.
Speaker 2 (09:51):
You mentioned him in regards to his targets, But man,
this guy plays the game without the ball in his hand.
He is so aware of what's going on around him,
route distributions. He is an absolute zone killer and man
the man he can win, He can beat his man,
he can utilize himself and his man in an effort
(10:12):
to rub for others. He just plays a well rounded game.
And he's also a guy that's been in the system
for a long time and understands it inside and out
and his role in it. And it is displayed in
the quality of his play and beyond targets and catches,
he impacts the game in a lot of ways.
Speaker 1 (10:33):
In recent weeks, your team has gone against Jim Schwartz
with Cleveland, Vic Fangio with Philadelphia, Dean Ps with Baltimore.
Today it's Chiefs defensive coordinator Steve Spagnola, who's the only
coordinator in NFL history to win Super Bowls with two
different teams. What's the personality of a Steve Spagnola defense man?
Speaker 2 (10:54):
They're aggressive Schematically, they're pressure group and first and second down,
the seventh in the league in terms of the amount
of pressure that they bring five or more rushers on
third down of possession downs, the number two in the
league in terms of the amount of pressure they bring.
You couple those two scenarios together, they are an elite
tip top pressure group in terms of the amount of
(11:14):
pressure that they bring. You couple that with Another characteristic
of Steve's defenses is that they're well coordinated and good
from a pre snap disguise standpoint. That's what creates the
havoc that has allowed him to win super Bowls in
multiple cities. As you mentioned, the collective that we've gone
through in recent weeks, Man, that's a very experienced group.
(11:36):
All of those guys have been in the league as
long as I've been in the league. They're very good
at what they do. There's no secret why they've been
able to sustain and that's why we've been in some
challenging circumstances, but this time of year, those are the
type of circumstances and stadiums that you want to be
in as the road gets narrow. You want to know
that you're sharpening your sword, you know where you are,
you're making the necessary adjustments, or you're winning in the
(11:58):
ways that you need to win this time of year
to prepare yourself for January football.
Speaker 1 (12:03):
That's the Mike Tomlin Game Day Podcast. Subscribe and download
new episodes every week and check out all of the
other shows we have to offer on the Steelers podcast
network that's available on the Steelers Mobile app, the iHeartRadio app,
or wherever you get your podcasts.
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