January 3, 2025 • 22 mins
Welcome to Skol Stories presented by 3M - The official science partner of the Minnesota Vikings. Tonight, Mark Rosen and Pete Bercich look back at a couple of our favorite interviews from the 2024 season. First up, we kick it off with former cornerback Xavier Rhodes who gives an update on his retirement life from Miami, Florida. In the second half of the show, special teams guru, Gary Zauner, talks about his early days learning from Vikings players and evaluating professional talent. For full interviews with all of our guests this season, check out the podcast tab on the Vikings app for all of our shows. All of this and more is in this edition of Skol Stories presented by 3M - The official science partner of the Minnesota Vikings.
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:02):
Welcome to School Stories presented by three M, the official
science partner of the Minnesota Vikings. Tonight, we are looking
back at a couple of our favorite interviews from this
incredible season. In the second half of the show, we'll
catch up with special teams Guru Gary's Honor, but first
we're talking to former Shutdown corner Xavier Rhoads about living
(00:26):
his best life down in Miami. Please enjoy tonight's conversations. Well,
Xavier Roads, Welcome to the show. It's great to hear
from you again. I'm sure the fans are anxious to
hear from you. And will you give those fans a
quick update on how you're doing these days?
Speaker 2 (00:42):
Ah? Man, I'm doing great man back in South Florida
where I was born, to ay living a best life
right now?
Speaker 1 (00:49):
What do you characterize the best life at this point
of your young guy?
Speaker 3 (00:53):
What does that look like? We want to know what
this looks like for a retired retired player.
Speaker 2 (00:58):
You know you work hard to accomplish you know you
play college ball, you have this dream to play in
the NFL, and I was able to play ten years
and I devoted my life to the game. So now
what I mean about The best life is just being
with my family, watching my kids grow, watching my son
become a phenomenal basketball player right now, you know, teaching
him about hard work and dedication.
Speaker 1 (01:18):
How old was your son and what levels you're playing
at right now?
Speaker 2 (01:21):
He's fifteen, ninth grade and playing varsity right now.
Speaker 3 (01:24):
Oh wow, that's fantastic. So the for parents listening, what
kind of advice do you give him?
Speaker 2 (01:31):
Oh? Sports wise?
Speaker 3 (01:32):
Yeah, just like yeah, just sports wise, because I think
people are very, very curious, and it's been my experience
that like the guys that were former players, when they
have kids that play, they just it's the basic things,
it's effort and stuff like that that they really let
them know how much work it's going to be in
the dedication of the sports type thing.
Speaker 2 (01:48):
I mean, I mean, yeah, same thing. You know, I
let my son know. You know, it's multiple schools, multiple
high schools. You know that in each state. You know,
you got to outbeat some of those guys in basketball,
they actually dropping guys overseas, so you actually got to
put an extra word extra time. But not only that,
you know, you have to know that, well, whatever sport
(02:09):
you play, it has an expiration date to it. So
at the end of the day, you've got to have
you have to have a backup plan. So I'll be
on a more on school than anything else, and following
with the world is going to so you know, now
the world going to tech, So being more on to that,
try to be more involved into that. So when you
become an adult, you can have the qualities and you
can have the requirements that needed to to adjust to
(02:32):
the world.
Speaker 1 (02:32):
What is going It's a great lesson. Did your son
have any designs on following in your footsteps and playing
football or did it always lean towards basketball? How happy
are you about that?
Speaker 2 (02:44):
Listen? Listen, So I don't know, you know about the
basketball player. They have this thing when they walk into
the gym and they have easy slides and have their
choosing their backpack. Yeah, headphones on. That is my son.
So you know football, see football is over. He's not
considered during football at all.
Speaker 3 (03:01):
Yeah, that's not I mean, and that's not a horrible thing,
is it not? Just as long as he has something
whatever that is that he's that he's dedicated to, right.
Speaker 2 (03:08):
Yeah, I mean sports alone. Teach kids dedication, teach everyone
how you know to prioritize their time. Let you know
about adversity. There's a lot of things you can learn
from sports. And I'm not against him planning. I didn't
want him plan at first. But the things I see
and what it's teaching him to scructure, how to be structured,
I mean, it's changing. So I encourage, I mean a
(03:29):
lot of people to put their kids in some type
of sport or anything that's going to give them like
a schedule, and you're going to see a drastic change
in your child if they're not actually doing anything.
Speaker 1 (03:38):
Right well, speaking of growing up in the environment he's
growing up in right now, Florida. As we all know,
Florida high school football is famous for being one of
the most competitive in the country. And what was it
like for you growing up in that environment and when
did you know you kind of had that gift to
to keep moving up the ladder and eventually becoming an
NFL player.
Speaker 3 (03:57):
Oh man, my.
Speaker 2 (04:00):
Story, My transition was pretty difficult, you know, going playing here,
I played against a lot of guys and a lot
of my friends played in the NFL. You know, I
grew up with Kevon Webster, Gino Smith, Dedman Bailey. I
can keep going. It's a lot of guys. I probably
grew up with like nine ten guys that played in
the NFL, So that let you know along how competitive
it was down this way. And it's more guys in
(04:20):
South Florida I played against, you know that's in the
league still to this day. So you know, I wasn't
really highly rated growing up. I was a receiver and
running back growing up. So once I got to Florida State,
I actually thought I was going to play receive a
running back, but they came my position at the corner,
and once that happened, my dreams and hopes of playing
going to the next level was shot. Like I didn't
(04:41):
believe I would get there. But like I tell my son, yeah,
like I tell my son, now, hard work and dedication
and believing in yourself would get you far. But I
dedicated myself to the game and learning that position. And
ten twenty years later, however, so I played a great
had a great career.
Speaker 3 (04:57):
Now I have to ask you something about Florida State
Andobby Bowden, because legend has it that Bobby Bowden would
be at practice but he would kind of sit up
in the up in the stands or up in the
tower and kind of had a megaphone and would just
you know, yell things down every once in a while.
Is that the case that he was? You know, Bobby Bowden,
He's talking about his stoic figure, a legendary head coach.
(05:19):
And then to know that he wasn't on the field,
he just was. You heard that all the time. He
just sits up on this thing and yell stuff down.
It's like, I just wanted to make sure that that
was actually the case.
Speaker 2 (05:29):
I mean, yeah, yeah, it was.
Speaker 4 (05:31):
You know.
Speaker 2 (05:32):
I got Bobby on his tail end of his his
coaching career. You know, it was his last recruiting class.
So I've seen Bobby three times the day in practice.
I've seen him in the beginning of practice, the middle
of practice, in the end. That's the only time you've
seen Bobby, like, like you say, in between those times,
Bobby was in like he was someone else watching practice.
You couldn't really get close to him because he was
(05:52):
pretty old, you know, but he stayed close to the players.
He talked to the players, make sure it was good,
you know. And Bobby coached so many players throughout his
career where he didn't really know your name. He couldn't
remember your name, so he called you out your number.
But yeah, I mean he coached a lot of great,
a lot of great, so it was respectable. Like you know,
once Bobby actually like knew your name and call you
(06:14):
by your names. That's when you know you was doing great.
We took that as a badge of honor because you know,
Bobby walking around saying, hey, Xavier, oh you know my name,
Light up that player. I'm doing something great. I'm doing
something good. They must be talking about me and the
coaches meeting at something. But yeah, man, it was great
memories being around him, you know, great memories being coached
(06:35):
by him, him and Mickey Andrews. Yeah, I still to
this day remember those memories and the times I had
with him.
Speaker 1 (06:40):
Well, I'm sure you still pay attention to uh. Obviously
in college football in particular in Florida. What do you
make of what is going on right now with the
nil money and the transfer portal and what that would
have been like had you been playing during those days.
Is it hurting the game? Is it just like, is
it about time that the players are getting common been
stated for what they're doing and whether the money they're
(07:02):
helping bring into these universities.
Speaker 2 (07:04):
Yeah, I mean, in my what I think is not
actually allowing these players that are coming in to be
fully developed. You know sometimes you know, when you leave
high school, you know, you you have play with coaches
that don't really understand how to develop a player. It's
different coaches that now to develop players. So they going
to college, and these college coaches don't really have the
time because the transfer portal is available now, so it's
(07:26):
all about winning now. So by having that mentality, a
lot of teams are just jumping into the transfer portal
just to try to get that championship, and you going
with players that's not fully developed and not being fully developed,
and you have they get left out, left behind, or
you know, you put them on the field and they
not really they not ready yet. So that's what I said,
a lot out there on that field when it comes
(07:47):
to the nil and how affected the game college game actually,
you know, because you know it's you see it like
you see a lot of people getting beaten. Jimmy's don't
really understand the defensive offensive calls to understanding gaps, the
blitz blit saying they don't really understand the fundamentals of
the game and knowing that and seeing that you know
that's only going to hurt you in the long run
(08:07):
because when you get to that next level, everyone on
that field understands the game, right, I mean everybody understands
the game, you know, and it's all about who's the
smartest one. I need to know your next move before
you make it. That's the game is about playing an NFL.
Speaker 3 (08:21):
And you you made that transition. Uh part of a
draft class that was very unique with three first rounders
Sharif Floyd, Cordrell, Patterson, yourself. The question I've been waiting
to ask you since I found out we were going
to have you on was you know you're drafting under
Leslie Frasier. I got what an amazing guy to play for.
But as a player when Zimmer came in, it seemed
(08:43):
like your career took off then, and I just at
some point I want to know what was it about
Zimmer and the defense? And maybe it had nothing to
do with Zimmer and the defense. It was all about you.
But what changed for you? Because the level of play,
that's really when you accelerate. And it was interesting that
you said you hadn't played corner dB your whole life,
because that's another part of it as well. It is
(09:05):
just learning the position. You know what I mean, you
didn't play it since you were six years old. You
just started playing it and going from offense to defense.
That's another huge thing.
Speaker 2 (09:13):
I would give my thanks and I would like to
say thank you the coach great you know my position coach.
Reason why is because once Zim signed on to the
Vikings and became the head coach, he hired Coach Gray
to be deep as a back coach, and I was
one of the first players he called here like, hey,
we love you here, we wanted, we want you to
be a great here. He said, Man, you listen to me.
(09:34):
We're gonna I'm gonna have the Braach truck back up
in your backyard.
Speaker 1 (09:37):
You're gonna get paid.
Speaker 2 (09:39):
So I'm like, oh, man, coach, what you're talking about? Like, man,
listen to me. I'm telling you. I got you. Just listen.
Everything I'm telling you and everything I'm gonna teach you
is gonna it's gonna it's gonna pay off an end.
I said, all right, So Dan, you know, with with
Zim coming in and George coming in, those guys was
like all on me, and they saw potential with me
because on the previous film I had last year and
(10:02):
those guys, all three of those guys, was only each
and every day. You know, you heard the stories about
me wearing gloves, boxing gloves and practice because I was
holding too much. You know, those a little details those
coaches paid attention to because they wanted me to be great.
And Zim came in where you know, we know Zim
love him to death. He was the hard nosed coach.
They don't really want to smile, walking around, grouchy all day, grumpy,
(10:23):
but you know, but we was able to get to
him because we know how to get to him and
he's loosen up with us, and by doing so, he
let his guards down. And by letting his guards done,
that's when we knew we had a connection as a
team and that's why we was able to play the
way we played.
Speaker 1 (10:40):
Thanks again the Xavier Rhoads for joining the show. For
the full conversation with Xavier Roads, please check out our
podcast feed on your favorite podcast app. Be sure to
come back for our second half of the show for
our conversation with special teams guru Gary zunder right here
on school stories presented by three M. From the field
to the roof and everywhere in between. Three M, the
(11:02):
official science partner of the Minnesota Vikings, is here. Visit
Vikings dot com slash school Science to learn more. Unreal
is back with their limited edition Vikings Drop head to
Narl dot com for more details and welcome back to
tonight's edition of School Stories presented by three M. Please
enjoy our previous conversation with Special Teams Guru Gary's Honor Well,
(11:27):
Gary's owner. It's great to have you on our show today.
So much to catch up on. I remember your days
fondly with the Minnesota Vikings, mostly as their Special Teams coach,
especially in the heyday late nineties in particular. But with
so many years to cover, first 'll just give the
fans a quick update. What you're up to these days,
and where are you living and how active are you
still in the world of football.
Speaker 4 (11:46):
Well, I live in Mountain Hills, Arizona. Basically semi retired,
but I still do some consulting. I train high school,
college and prospective NFL specialists. I have two major comb
that I run, one in February of the College Senior
Combine and then the Free Agent Combine in March is
attended by many of the NFL teams, are CFL, UFL,
(12:09):
or any of those new leagues. They come out and
they check out the talent level of the free agents available,
which your new kicker was a part of it. He
actually came in twenty twenty two to the College Senior
which I ranked him as a one A prospect NFL prospect.
Speaker 3 (12:26):
Which we don't know what that means. Eight Oh my god,
Well it's not.
Speaker 4 (12:30):
It's rankings. But you know, Pete, you were probably a
one B.
Speaker 3 (12:33):
But I know that.
Speaker 4 (12:35):
Yeah, But you know, there's there's free agents, and there's
draftable guys. But I one A means I think the
NFL team should take a look at this guy because
I think he's got some potential. So every year, a
lot of guys have gone out and proved the scouts wrong,
and I've had quite a success rate. I think there's
fifty six starters in the NFL in the last sixteen
(12:57):
years of guys that I've had here that did not
go the NFL Combine that made it to the NFL.
And this past year I had Brayden Arbusen who went
with those other guys the Packers the new long snapper
with the Detroit Lions Hogan Hattan. He was kind of
a sleeper and actually Jake Bates with the Detroit Lions
he was the year before this past year, I also
(13:20):
am part of the Hula Bowl selection committee where Spencer
Schrader came to the Hula Bowl did quite well. He
signed with the Colts, then he played I think one
game with the Jets, and then the Kansas City Chiefs
just picked him up. So but anyways, that's kind of
what I do. And then you know, I train whoever
wants to get better as a punter, kicker, snamper.
Speaker 3 (13:40):
Hey see this is I mean, that's something I think
as a special teams coordinator as there's a lot of
them out there, a couple of your former players or
guys that you know, like Heath Farwell, I know you
and you know the Vikings and the Bravens. At the
time we were trying to fight over him in free
agency because he didn't get drafted. But you knew a
lot about the kicking game and it's it's amazing and
(14:00):
talk about this, I guess for fans listening, special teams
coaches don't always know kicking, do they like I'm saying.
When I say kicking, I mean the technique and what's
wrong with the what can be good or bad about
the kicker swing and those kinds of things. Am I
mistaken in that?
Speaker 4 (14:16):
Well? I just happened to be fortunate enough to be
a kicking coach that learned a lot about special teams
and I just happened to be in the right place
at the right time. I was at BYU because LaBelle Edwards,
and a Hall of Fame coach, saw my resume and
he said, would you please give me a call? And
I called him up and he says, you know, Gary,
everybody on this team gets coached except three guys, the punter, kicker,
(14:38):
and snapper. And it ended up he hired me and
we had an All American punter in Clay Brown, and
we had a guy there by name Eli Johnson that
played eighteen years. But that's kind of started my career.
And as I went from there to San Diego State,
on and on, eventually I met, you know, George Allen
and he hired me. Danny Green. I met in there
with Brian Billick and Ni he was a special teams
(15:01):
coach at one time, and he says, you.
Speaker 2 (15:02):
Know, you're I'm going to bring.
Speaker 4 (15:03):
You in because you're one of the few guys that
not only knows the special teams aspect, but more importantly,
you know the kicker.
Speaker 3 (15:10):
Yeah.
Speaker 4 (15:10):
And then then he would always say, you know about
the snapper, And I was always looking to, you know,
bringing new guys just geart. I worry enough about the kicker.
I don't ever want to worry about the snapper. So
that's when we had That's when we had Mike Morris.
But your point, Pete, there's a lot of coaches that
they get in the NFL because they know a head coach.
They could have been head coaches in college, but they
(15:32):
come in as a as a NFL Special teams coach
and they get through the meetings and you know, they're
supposedly because you got the title special Teams coordinator, but
they really don't know the mechanics of the kicker. Like
a guy, you know, why is he missing it right?
Why is he pulling it left? Why is the long
snapper laces going backwards? And that's my whole thing. I
(15:53):
used to teach guys the art of snapping perfect laces.
And I learned that from a guy when I was
in training camp with the Vikings. His name is Mick Tinglow,
and Mick was in camp and he's warming up and
I was up there for a tryout. I went to
the University Wisconsin lacrosse. They brought me in for a
tryout and Mick was warming up and I'm noticing and
he's turning back to Paul Krause, who's my holder at
(16:14):
that time, and he goes, Hey, Paul, where are the
laces coming out? And he says, oh, oh, court turn
So he adjusted and all of a sudden, you know,
I was twenty at twenty one, and they signed me
after a great workout. And so when I come back
to training camp being a physical education teacher, I'm going like, heate, Mick,
how did you do that? He says, well, you know,
you just got to get the right rotations and da
(16:36):
da da, and if it isn't, I turned the laces.
And so through my career, I always the vital man
in my kicking game was a long snapper, and I've
taught so many guys. Matter of fact, in the last
sixteen years, I've had thirty eight snappers in the NFL.
And the art of teaching perfect laces has really come
a long way because almost every guy when you watch
TV and you see a good kick, it's like snap
(16:59):
bone kick. It's good. But you'll occasionally see the laces
and you'll see you guys. They'll show close up of
the whole theer's spinning laces and the guy will miss it.
And like I said, it's become an art of having
a great snapper and then why does a guy miss?
But as I was looking at the stats this year,
I noticed that some of the kickers that are having
(17:19):
problems lost long snappers or the punter changed. But they
came up with this stupid kickoff rule.
Speaker 1 (17:27):
Wait for that.
Speaker 4 (17:28):
Larry Izzo called me about a kicker and I says, Larry,
here's what I'm afraid of. They got this stupid rule,
and I'm telling you, I think the percentage of the
kicker is going to go down this year. I like
in kicking to golf, when a golfer try kick shots
and spin shots and weird shots or it's the perfection
(17:48):
of what plubb he has and what he's trying to execute.
So they're now asking these kickers to try these well,
hit a squib kick between the twenty and the goal line,
or mishit the ball to the like the fifteen yard line,
hook it to the left corner, or fake the guy
out like you're kicking right and kick it left. So,
as you know, Pete, in practice play Sunday, Monday, you
(18:10):
don't practice Tuesday. You don't practice on Wednesday. You come
out and you kick field goals. You practice probably punting
in punt returns. So the kickers may be kicking field goals,
but on Thursday you got kickoff, kickoff returning. He's still
kicking field goals. Then on Friday you're trying all these
weird things with the kickoff rules. Now this is what
really gets me. Excuse me? Can I raise my hand?
(18:32):
We're now going to do an on side kick. There
is no surprise on side kick anymore.
Speaker 3 (18:37):
Got it to clar it? Correct?
Speaker 4 (18:38):
You got it? Declare? Well, why don't the quarterbacks declared
they're going to throw it pass?
Speaker 3 (18:43):
That'd be nice.
Speaker 4 (18:44):
I mean, it's the craziest things.
Speaker 3 (18:46):
And that's and that goes against everything because you needed
to be consistent. And when you talk about laces, I
just want the listeners to know what Gary's talking about
is is these long snappers when they're snapping for field
goals and pats. When the holder catches the football, the
laces are already up. So not only are you snapping
a football perfectly in the perfect spot at the right
(19:09):
speed for seven yards the rotation, I mean, it's mastering
the rotation. So when the holder catches the football, the
laces are up ninety ninety five percent of the time.
You know, it's something that Morris did. It's unbelievable.
Speaker 4 (19:23):
Pete, You're exactly right. And so, like I said, I
learned it from Mick. I passed it on. I've got
a website called perfect Laces dot com and it's the
story of how I learned the coach the artist staff
in Perfect Laces, and I talked about Mckingdallhoffins camp or whatever.
But I think it's in the old days. You know.
I grew up in Milwaukee, Wisconsin a Packer fan.
Speaker 3 (19:43):
But oh, sorry for that.
Speaker 4 (19:45):
Usually the snapper was usually a player like Mick or
with the tight end or as a linebacker.
Speaker 3 (19:50):
They have a specialty.
Speaker 4 (19:51):
I worked for a guy by the name of George Allen,
and George, even when I was a young coach, George
was the first guy to have the first long snapper.
George was also the first guy to I have just
a return specialist, and then everybody starts saying, George is
doing this, So all of a sudden they started, you know,
over the years, more and more teams had just a
long stamper on the roster. And you know, like I said,
(20:12):
Devin Hester, I would say was probably a great return specialist.
You know, he played a little, but he made his
money by returning. So everything was revolutionary. But I thought
George Allen was one of the first. And George was
the first guy to hire the first special teams coach.
And so George was always, in my book, like the
leader in changing things with special teams. And he did
(20:33):
a lot for football in many phases of the game.
But my whole career as a young coach was, Okay,
I'm going to win. As you always say, one third
of the game is special teams. Well, a lot of
guys say it, but they don't practice it and they
don't really give it a third of the time. But
that's how I got ahead. And I just happened to
be in the right place at BYU. I happened to
meet Brian Billick. Brian Billick picked me up at BYU
(20:56):
and then Brian went to the forty nine ers. From there,
I went to Sandy Yego State, and Brian and I
coached together. My roommate was Mike Smith, and then Brian
went to Stanford and I met Denny at Stanford, and
so the whole thing it's not always what you know,
it's who you know. And so I was very lucky
to be in the right place at the right time,
and people talked about me. And then I came to
(21:17):
the Vikings, and my last point was when I came there,
I asked Danny. He said, who's going to make the
decision on the specialists, because you know, he wanted me
to come there, but I had my own kicking service
and I was doing quite well. And Denny says, well, Gary,
I make the final decision, but I'm going to count
on you to give me the recommendation. Who you want now, Pete?
You know this. We brought him Mitch Berger, and I
(21:38):
can remember being down on the field and Scott Studwell
comes home and he says, Gary, why do we bring
in this guy?
Speaker 2 (21:44):
He's been cut six times And I said, listen, he's.
Speaker 4 (21:47):
A big guy. He's a punter that I think I
can coach. He can hold and he can kick off.
And if we can get a punter they can kick off,
we can go out and get the you know, the
greatest kicker. And we brought in Gary Anderson and for
eight years there was no problems with the kicking because
I was a great special teams coach, except for one game.
Speaker 3 (22:04):
One kick that was your fault.
Speaker 4 (22:06):
But I mean, Gary was just one of the greatest
kickers I've ever been around.
Speaker 1 (22:10):
Well, folks, the NFL regular season wraps up with a
huge Sunday night football game between your Minnesota Vikings and
the Detroit Lions from the Motor City. It's a seven
to twenty pm kickoff over on NBC here locally. Thanks
again to Xavier Roads and Gary Zana for joining the show,
and thank you fans for tuning into another edition of
Skull Stories presented by three M, the official science partner
(22:32):
of the Minnesota Vikings. We will see you all again
next week.
Welcome to School Stories presented by three M, the official
science partner of the Minnesota Vikings. Tonight, we are looking
back at a couple of our favorite interviews from this
incredible season. In the second half of the show, we'll
catch up with special teams Guru Gary's Honor, but first
we're talking to former Shutdown corner Xavier Rhoads about living
(00:26):
his best life down in Miami. Please enjoy tonight's conversations. Well,
Xavier Roads, Welcome to the show. It's great to hear
from you again. I'm sure the fans are anxious to
hear from you. And will you give those fans a
quick update on how you're doing these days?
Speaker 2 (00:42):
Ah? Man, I'm doing great man back in South Florida
where I was born, to ay living a best life
right now?
Speaker 1 (00:49):
What do you characterize the best life at this point
of your young guy?
Speaker 3 (00:53):
What does that look like? We want to know what
this looks like for a retired retired player.
Speaker 2 (00:58):
You know you work hard to accomplish you know you
play college ball, you have this dream to play in
the NFL, and I was able to play ten years
and I devoted my life to the game. So now
what I mean about The best life is just being
with my family, watching my kids grow, watching my son
become a phenomenal basketball player right now, you know, teaching
him about hard work and dedication.
Speaker 1 (01:18):
How old was your son and what levels you're playing
at right now?
Speaker 2 (01:21):
He's fifteen, ninth grade and playing varsity right now.
Speaker 3 (01:24):
Oh wow, that's fantastic. So the for parents listening, what
kind of advice do you give him?
Speaker 2 (01:31):
Oh? Sports wise?
Speaker 3 (01:32):
Yeah, just like yeah, just sports wise, because I think
people are very, very curious, and it's been my experience
that like the guys that were former players, when they
have kids that play, they just it's the basic things,
it's effort and stuff like that that they really let
them know how much work it's going to be in
the dedication of the sports type thing.
Speaker 2 (01:48):
I mean, I mean, yeah, same thing. You know, I
let my son know. You know, it's multiple schools, multiple
high schools. You know that in each state. You know,
you got to outbeat some of those guys in basketball,
they actually dropping guys overseas, so you actually got to
put an extra word extra time. But not only that,
you know, you have to know that, well, whatever sport
(02:09):
you play, it has an expiration date to it. So
at the end of the day, you've got to have
you have to have a backup plan. So I'll be
on a more on school than anything else, and following
with the world is going to so you know, now
the world going to tech, So being more on to that,
try to be more involved into that. So when you
become an adult, you can have the qualities and you
can have the requirements that needed to to adjust to
(02:32):
the world.
Speaker 1 (02:32):
What is going It's a great lesson. Did your son
have any designs on following in your footsteps and playing
football or did it always lean towards basketball? How happy
are you about that?
Speaker 2 (02:44):
Listen? Listen, So I don't know, you know about the
basketball player. They have this thing when they walk into
the gym and they have easy slides and have their
choosing their backpack. Yeah, headphones on. That is my son.
So you know football, see football is over. He's not
considered during football at all.
Speaker 3 (03:01):
Yeah, that's not I mean, and that's not a horrible thing,
is it not? Just as long as he has something
whatever that is that he's that he's dedicated to, right.
Speaker 2 (03:08):
Yeah, I mean sports alone. Teach kids dedication, teach everyone
how you know to prioritize their time. Let you know
about adversity. There's a lot of things you can learn
from sports. And I'm not against him planning. I didn't
want him plan at first. But the things I see
and what it's teaching him to scructure, how to be structured,
I mean, it's changing. So I encourage, I mean a
(03:29):
lot of people to put their kids in some type
of sport or anything that's going to give them like
a schedule, and you're going to see a drastic change
in your child if they're not actually doing anything.
Speaker 1 (03:38):
Right well, speaking of growing up in the environment he's
growing up in right now, Florida. As we all know,
Florida high school football is famous for being one of
the most competitive in the country. And what was it
like for you growing up in that environment and when
did you know you kind of had that gift to
to keep moving up the ladder and eventually becoming an
NFL player.
Speaker 3 (03:57):
Oh man, my.
Speaker 2 (04:00):
Story, My transition was pretty difficult, you know, going playing here,
I played against a lot of guys and a lot
of my friends played in the NFL. You know, I
grew up with Kevon Webster, Gino Smith, Dedman Bailey. I
can keep going. It's a lot of guys. I probably
grew up with like nine ten guys that played in
the NFL, So that let you know along how competitive
it was down this way. And it's more guys in
(04:20):
South Florida I played against, you know that's in the
league still to this day. So you know, I wasn't
really highly rated growing up. I was a receiver and
running back growing up. So once I got to Florida State,
I actually thought I was going to play receive a
running back, but they came my position at the corner,
and once that happened, my dreams and hopes of playing
going to the next level was shot. Like I didn't
(04:41):
believe I would get there. But like I tell my son, yeah,
like I tell my son, now, hard work and dedication
and believing in yourself would get you far. But I
dedicated myself to the game and learning that position. And
ten twenty years later, however, so I played a great
had a great career.
Speaker 3 (04:57):
Now I have to ask you something about Florida State
Andobby Bowden, because legend has it that Bobby Bowden would
be at practice but he would kind of sit up
in the up in the stands or up in the
tower and kind of had a megaphone and would just
you know, yell things down every once in a while.
Is that the case that he was? You know, Bobby Bowden,
He's talking about his stoic figure, a legendary head coach.
(05:19):
And then to know that he wasn't on the field,
he just was. You heard that all the time. He
just sits up on this thing and yell stuff down.
It's like, I just wanted to make sure that that
was actually the case.
Speaker 2 (05:29):
I mean, yeah, yeah, it was.
Speaker 4 (05:31):
You know.
Speaker 2 (05:32):
I got Bobby on his tail end of his his
coaching career. You know, it was his last recruiting class.
So I've seen Bobby three times the day in practice.
I've seen him in the beginning of practice, the middle
of practice, in the end. That's the only time you've
seen Bobby, like, like you say, in between those times,
Bobby was in like he was someone else watching practice.
You couldn't really get close to him because he was
(05:52):
pretty old, you know, but he stayed close to the players.
He talked to the players, make sure it was good,
you know. And Bobby coached so many players throughout his
career where he didn't really know your name. He couldn't
remember your name, so he called you out your number.
But yeah, I mean he coached a lot of great,
a lot of great, so it was respectable. Like you know,
once Bobby actually like knew your name and call you
(06:14):
by your names. That's when you know you was doing great.
We took that as a badge of honor because you know,
Bobby walking around saying, hey, Xavier, oh you know my name,
Light up that player. I'm doing something great. I'm doing
something good. They must be talking about me and the
coaches meeting at something. But yeah, man, it was great
memories being around him, you know, great memories being coached
(06:35):
by him, him and Mickey Andrews. Yeah, I still to
this day remember those memories and the times I had
with him.
Speaker 1 (06:40):
Well, I'm sure you still pay attention to uh. Obviously
in college football in particular in Florida. What do you
make of what is going on right now with the
nil money and the transfer portal and what that would
have been like had you been playing during those days.
Is it hurting the game? Is it just like, is
it about time that the players are getting common been
stated for what they're doing and whether the money they're
(07:02):
helping bring into these universities.
Speaker 2 (07:04):
Yeah, I mean, in my what I think is not
actually allowing these players that are coming in to be
fully developed. You know sometimes you know, when you leave
high school, you know, you you have play with coaches
that don't really understand how to develop a player. It's
different coaches that now to develop players. So they going
to college, and these college coaches don't really have the
time because the transfer portal is available now, so it's
(07:26):
all about winning now. So by having that mentality, a
lot of teams are just jumping into the transfer portal
just to try to get that championship, and you going
with players that's not fully developed and not being fully developed,
and you have they get left out, left behind, or
you know, you put them on the field and they
not really they not ready yet. So that's what I said,
a lot out there on that field when it comes
(07:47):
to the nil and how affected the game college game actually,
you know, because you know it's you see it like
you see a lot of people getting beaten. Jimmy's don't
really understand the defensive offensive calls to understanding gaps, the
blitz blit saying they don't really understand the fundamentals of
the game and knowing that and seeing that you know
that's only going to hurt you in the long run
(08:07):
because when you get to that next level, everyone on
that field understands the game, right, I mean everybody understands
the game, you know, and it's all about who's the
smartest one. I need to know your next move before
you make it. That's the game is about playing an NFL.
Speaker 3 (08:21):
And you you made that transition. Uh part of a
draft class that was very unique with three first rounders
Sharif Floyd, Cordrell, Patterson, yourself. The question I've been waiting
to ask you since I found out we were going
to have you on was you know you're drafting under
Leslie Frasier. I got what an amazing guy to play for.
But as a player when Zimmer came in, it seemed
(08:43):
like your career took off then, and I just at
some point I want to know what was it about
Zimmer and the defense? And maybe it had nothing to
do with Zimmer and the defense. It was all about you.
But what changed for you? Because the level of play,
that's really when you accelerate. And it was interesting that
you said you hadn't played corner dB your whole life,
because that's another part of it as well. It is
(09:05):
just learning the position. You know what I mean, you
didn't play it since you were six years old. You
just started playing it and going from offense to defense.
That's another huge thing.
Speaker 2 (09:13):
I would give my thanks and I would like to
say thank you the coach great you know my position coach.
Reason why is because once Zim signed on to the
Vikings and became the head coach, he hired Coach Gray
to be deep as a back coach, and I was
one of the first players he called here like, hey,
we love you here, we wanted, we want you to
be a great here. He said, Man, you listen to me.
(09:34):
We're gonna I'm gonna have the Braach truck back up
in your backyard.
Speaker 1 (09:37):
You're gonna get paid.
Speaker 2 (09:39):
So I'm like, oh, man, coach, what you're talking about? Like, man,
listen to me. I'm telling you. I got you. Just listen.
Everything I'm telling you and everything I'm gonna teach you
is gonna it's gonna it's gonna pay off an end.
I said, all right, So Dan, you know, with with
Zim coming in and George coming in, those guys was
like all on me, and they saw potential with me
because on the previous film I had last year and
(10:02):
those guys, all three of those guys, was only each
and every day. You know, you heard the stories about
me wearing gloves, boxing gloves and practice because I was
holding too much. You know, those a little details those
coaches paid attention to because they wanted me to be great.
And Zim came in where you know, we know Zim
love him to death. He was the hard nosed coach.
They don't really want to smile, walking around, grouchy all day, grumpy,
(10:23):
but you know, but we was able to get to
him because we know how to get to him and
he's loosen up with us, and by doing so, he
let his guards down. And by letting his guards done,
that's when we knew we had a connection as a
team and that's why we was able to play the
way we played.
Speaker 1 (10:40):
Thanks again the Xavier Rhoads for joining the show. For
the full conversation with Xavier Roads, please check out our
podcast feed on your favorite podcast app. Be sure to
come back for our second half of the show for
our conversation with special teams guru Gary zunder right here
on school stories presented by three M. From the field
to the roof and everywhere in between. Three M, the
(11:02):
official science partner of the Minnesota Vikings, is here. Visit
Vikings dot com slash school Science to learn more. Unreal
is back with their limited edition Vikings Drop head to
Narl dot com for more details and welcome back to
tonight's edition of School Stories presented by three M. Please
enjoy our previous conversation with Special Teams Guru Gary's Honor Well,
(11:27):
Gary's owner. It's great to have you on our show today.
So much to catch up on. I remember your days
fondly with the Minnesota Vikings, mostly as their Special Teams coach,
especially in the heyday late nineties in particular. But with
so many years to cover, first 'll just give the
fans a quick update. What you're up to these days,
and where are you living and how active are you
still in the world of football.
Speaker 4 (11:46):
Well, I live in Mountain Hills, Arizona. Basically semi retired,
but I still do some consulting. I train high school,
college and prospective NFL specialists. I have two major comb
that I run, one in February of the College Senior
Combine and then the Free Agent Combine in March is
attended by many of the NFL teams, are CFL, UFL,
(12:09):
or any of those new leagues. They come out and
they check out the talent level of the free agents available,
which your new kicker was a part of it. He
actually came in twenty twenty two to the College Senior
which I ranked him as a one A prospect NFL prospect.
Speaker 3 (12:26):
Which we don't know what that means. Eight Oh my god,
Well it's not.
Speaker 4 (12:30):
It's rankings. But you know, Pete, you were probably a
one B.
Speaker 3 (12:33):
But I know that.
Speaker 4 (12:35):
Yeah, But you know, there's there's free agents, and there's
draftable guys. But I one A means I think the
NFL team should take a look at this guy because
I think he's got some potential. So every year, a
lot of guys have gone out and proved the scouts wrong,
and I've had quite a success rate. I think there's
fifty six starters in the NFL in the last sixteen
(12:57):
years of guys that I've had here that did not
go the NFL Combine that made it to the NFL.
And this past year I had Brayden Arbusen who went
with those other guys the Packers the new long snapper
with the Detroit Lions Hogan Hattan. He was kind of
a sleeper and actually Jake Bates with the Detroit Lions
he was the year before this past year, I also
(13:20):
am part of the Hula Bowl selection committee where Spencer
Schrader came to the Hula Bowl did quite well. He
signed with the Colts, then he played I think one
game with the Jets, and then the Kansas City Chiefs
just picked him up. So but anyways, that's kind of
what I do. And then you know, I train whoever
wants to get better as a punter, kicker, snamper.
Speaker 3 (13:40):
Hey see this is I mean, that's something I think
as a special teams coordinator as there's a lot of
them out there, a couple of your former players or
guys that you know, like Heath Farwell, I know you
and you know the Vikings and the Bravens. At the
time we were trying to fight over him in free
agency because he didn't get drafted. But you knew a
lot about the kicking game and it's it's amazing and
(14:00):
talk about this, I guess for fans listening, special teams
coaches don't always know kicking, do they like I'm saying.
When I say kicking, I mean the technique and what's
wrong with the what can be good or bad about
the kicker swing and those kinds of things. Am I
mistaken in that?
Speaker 4 (14:16):
Well? I just happened to be fortunate enough to be
a kicking coach that learned a lot about special teams
and I just happened to be in the right place
at the right time. I was at BYU because LaBelle Edwards,
and a Hall of Fame coach, saw my resume and
he said, would you please give me a call? And
I called him up and he says, you know, Gary,
everybody on this team gets coached except three guys, the punter, kicker,
(14:38):
and snapper. And it ended up he hired me and
we had an All American punter in Clay Brown, and
we had a guy there by name Eli Johnson that
played eighteen years. But that's kind of started my career.
And as I went from there to San Diego State,
on and on, eventually I met, you know, George Allen
and he hired me. Danny Green. I met in there
with Brian Billick and Ni he was a special teams
(15:01):
coach at one time, and he says, you.
Speaker 2 (15:02):
Know, you're I'm going to bring.
Speaker 4 (15:03):
You in because you're one of the few guys that
not only knows the special teams aspect, but more importantly,
you know the kicker.
Speaker 3 (15:10):
Yeah.
Speaker 4 (15:10):
And then then he would always say, you know about
the snapper, And I was always looking to, you know,
bringing new guys just geart. I worry enough about the kicker.
I don't ever want to worry about the snapper. So
that's when we had That's when we had Mike Morris.
But your point, Pete, there's a lot of coaches that
they get in the NFL because they know a head coach.
They could have been head coaches in college, but they
(15:32):
come in as a as a NFL Special teams coach
and they get through the meetings and you know, they're
supposedly because you got the title special Teams coordinator, but
they really don't know the mechanics of the kicker. Like
a guy, you know, why is he missing it right?
Why is he pulling it left? Why is the long
snapper laces going backwards? And that's my whole thing. I
(15:53):
used to teach guys the art of snapping perfect laces.
And I learned that from a guy when I was
in training camp with the Vikings. His name is Mick Tinglow,
and Mick was in camp and he's warming up and
I was up there for a tryout. I went to
the University Wisconsin lacrosse. They brought me in for a
tryout and Mick was warming up and I'm noticing and
he's turning back to Paul Krause, who's my holder at
(16:14):
that time, and he goes, Hey, Paul, where are the
laces coming out? And he says, oh, oh, court turn
So he adjusted and all of a sudden, you know,
I was twenty at twenty one, and they signed me
after a great workout. And so when I come back
to training camp being a physical education teacher, I'm going like, heate, Mick,
how did you do that? He says, well, you know,
you just got to get the right rotations and da
(16:36):
da da, and if it isn't, I turned the laces.
And so through my career, I always the vital man
in my kicking game was a long snapper, and I've
taught so many guys. Matter of fact, in the last
sixteen years, I've had thirty eight snappers in the NFL.
And the art of teaching perfect laces has really come
a long way because almost every guy when you watch
TV and you see a good kick, it's like snap
(16:59):
bone kick. It's good. But you'll occasionally see the laces
and you'll see you guys. They'll show close up of
the whole theer's spinning laces and the guy will miss it.
And like I said, it's become an art of having
a great snapper and then why does a guy miss?
But as I was looking at the stats this year,
I noticed that some of the kickers that are having
(17:19):
problems lost long snappers or the punter changed. But they
came up with this stupid kickoff rule.
Speaker 1 (17:27):
Wait for that.
Speaker 4 (17:28):
Larry Izzo called me about a kicker and I says, Larry,
here's what I'm afraid of. They got this stupid rule,
and I'm telling you, I think the percentage of the
kicker is going to go down this year. I like
in kicking to golf, when a golfer try kick shots
and spin shots and weird shots or it's the perfection
(17:48):
of what plubb he has and what he's trying to execute.
So they're now asking these kickers to try these well,
hit a squib kick between the twenty and the goal line,
or mishit the ball to the like the fifteen yard line,
hook it to the left corner, or fake the guy
out like you're kicking right and kick it left. So,
as you know, Pete, in practice play Sunday, Monday, you
(18:10):
don't practice Tuesday. You don't practice on Wednesday. You come
out and you kick field goals. You practice probably punting
in punt returns. So the kickers may be kicking field goals,
but on Thursday you got kickoff, kickoff returning. He's still
kicking field goals. Then on Friday you're trying all these
weird things with the kickoff rules. Now this is what
really gets me. Excuse me? Can I raise my hand?
(18:32):
We're now going to do an on side kick. There
is no surprise on side kick anymore.
Speaker 3 (18:37):
Got it to clar it? Correct?
Speaker 4 (18:38):
You got it? Declare? Well, why don't the quarterbacks declared
they're going to throw it pass?
Speaker 3 (18:43):
That'd be nice.
Speaker 4 (18:44):
I mean, it's the craziest things.
Speaker 3 (18:46):
And that's and that goes against everything because you needed
to be consistent. And when you talk about laces, I
just want the listeners to know what Gary's talking about
is is these long snappers when they're snapping for field
goals and pats. When the holder catches the football, the
laces are already up. So not only are you snapping
a football perfectly in the perfect spot at the right
(19:09):
speed for seven yards the rotation, I mean, it's mastering
the rotation. So when the holder catches the football, the
laces are up ninety ninety five percent of the time.
You know, it's something that Morris did. It's unbelievable.
Speaker 4 (19:23):
Pete, You're exactly right. And so, like I said, I
learned it from Mick. I passed it on. I've got
a website called perfect Laces dot com and it's the
story of how I learned the coach the artist staff
in Perfect Laces, and I talked about Mckingdallhoffins camp or whatever.
But I think it's in the old days. You know.
I grew up in Milwaukee, Wisconsin a Packer fan.
Speaker 3 (19:43):
But oh, sorry for that.
Speaker 4 (19:45):
Usually the snapper was usually a player like Mick or
with the tight end or as a linebacker.
Speaker 3 (19:50):
They have a specialty.
Speaker 4 (19:51):
I worked for a guy by the name of George Allen,
and George, even when I was a young coach, George
was the first guy to have the first long snapper.
George was also the first guy to I have just
a return specialist, and then everybody starts saying, George is
doing this, So all of a sudden they started, you know,
over the years, more and more teams had just a
long stamper on the roster. And you know, like I said,
(20:12):
Devin Hester, I would say was probably a great return specialist.
You know, he played a little, but he made his
money by returning. So everything was revolutionary. But I thought
George Allen was one of the first. And George was
the first guy to hire the first special teams coach.
And so George was always, in my book, like the
leader in changing things with special teams. And he did
(20:33):
a lot for football in many phases of the game.
But my whole career as a young coach was, Okay,
I'm going to win. As you always say, one third
of the game is special teams. Well, a lot of
guys say it, but they don't practice it and they
don't really give it a third of the time. But
that's how I got ahead. And I just happened to
be in the right place at BYU. I happened to
meet Brian Billick. Brian Billick picked me up at BYU
(20:56):
and then Brian went to the forty nine ers. From there,
I went to Sandy Yego State, and Brian and I
coached together. My roommate was Mike Smith, and then Brian
went to Stanford and I met Denny at Stanford, and
so the whole thing it's not always what you know,
it's who you know. And so I was very lucky
to be in the right place at the right time,
and people talked about me. And then I came to
(21:17):
the Vikings, and my last point was when I came there,
I asked Danny. He said, who's going to make the
decision on the specialists, because you know, he wanted me
to come there, but I had my own kicking service
and I was doing quite well. And Denny says, well, Gary,
I make the final decision, but I'm going to count
on you to give me the recommendation. Who you want now, Pete?
You know this. We brought him Mitch Berger, and I
(21:38):
can remember being down on the field and Scott Studwell
comes home and he says, Gary, why do we bring
in this guy?
Speaker 2 (21:44):
He's been cut six times And I said, listen, he's.
Speaker 4 (21:47):
A big guy. He's a punter that I think I
can coach. He can hold and he can kick off.
And if we can get a punter they can kick off,
we can go out and get the you know, the
greatest kicker. And we brought in Gary Anderson and for
eight years there was no problems with the kicking because
I was a great special teams coach, except for one game.
Speaker 3 (22:04):
One kick that was your fault.
Speaker 4 (22:06):
But I mean, Gary was just one of the greatest
kickers I've ever been around.
Speaker 1 (22:10):
Well, folks, the NFL regular season wraps up with a
huge Sunday night football game between your Minnesota Vikings and
the Detroit Lions from the Motor City. It's a seven
to twenty pm kickoff over on NBC here locally. Thanks
again to Xavier Roads and Gary Zana for joining the show,
and thank you fans for tuning into another edition of
Skull Stories presented by three M, the official science partner
(22:32):
of the Minnesota Vikings. We will see you all again
next week.
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