January 9, 2025 • 46 mins
Welcome back to the Vikings Tailgate presented by Ticketmaster - The official ticket marketplace of the Minnesota Vikings. It's Wild Card weekend and the Vikings are facing the Rams on the road Monday night. Cy's back with fan favorite Zach Martina to review the week 18 game against the Lions and preview the upcoming NFL playoffs. Cy and Zach talk about Zach's Lions waiting for the dust to settle, the Vikings need to refocus against the Rams, the preferred opponent paths to get to the Super Bowl, and all the fun matchups happening this weekend across the league. All of this and more is on episode 53 of the Vikings Tailgate presented by Ticketmaster - The official ticket marketplace of the Minnesota Vikings.
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
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Speaker 1 (00:09):
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(00:32):
com slash code for more details. Hey, everybody, welcome back
to the Vikings Tailgate. It's cy aman Sin. Thank you
for joining the official podcast feed. Super bombed terrible game
in Detroit, officially playing the Rams as the fifth seed.
Speaker 2 (00:49):
But it's time to.
Speaker 1 (00:50):
Talk about that a little bit and then turn the page.
Because there's still a lot in front of this team.
We decided to bring back our old friend and die
hard Lions fan, Zach Martina, to talk about the game
that was and the playoffs that will be. I think
you guys are really gonna like this one.
Speaker 2 (01:09):
Enjoy the show.
Speaker 1 (01:10):
Everybody, recket recket turn here.
Speaker 2 (01:24):
Hey, everybody, welcome into the tailgate.
Speaker 1 (01:27):
We are joined. People aren't gonna like this. A lot
of Viking fans are upset. I'm upset, but the playoffs
are in front of us. We're going to talk NFC playoffs,
and we had we knew that last game was important,
and so we knew we were gonna want to talk
about it a little bit afterwards. So obviously, podcast favorite
(01:47):
diehard Detroit Lions fans, Zach Martinez here, Hi Zack, I'm
not done talking, Hi Zac.
Speaker 3 (01:53):
Hi Si.
Speaker 4 (01:54):
I'm surprised that you're doing another post game podcast because
listen to me, you were not thrilled after the last one.
You said we'll never do it again. I'm sorry, I
couldn't do it beforehand. I just got my voice back.
Speaker 2 (02:07):
Listen to me.
Speaker 1 (02:08):
We decided when you lost your voice and couldn't do
the pre one that we would do a post one
before the results of the game.
Speaker 2 (02:14):
And do I regret that right now? Yeah? I hate it.
Speaker 1 (02:17):
I hate it a lot, but I'm a man of
my word and we are going to keep going until
this show is over. So obviously we're gonna talk about
what happened. But then I do because we both have
a vested interest in the playoffs. The Vikings have the
Rams the Vikings have Matthew Stafford, your old person. We're
gonna talk about the NFC. We're going to talk about
the paths for both teams. But first I will say
(02:41):
so before the Viking Packer game, you and I are
on the phone and we're just talking like friends. And
I'm not I'm not a trash talker. Nope, people know
this right. But we're just talking football. And I mentioned,
we're not even talking about your team or they're my team.
We're talking about the Philadelphia Egos, and I mentioned that
(03:03):
they have one of the best O lines in football
in the last.
Speaker 2 (03:06):
Thirty years, and that was upsetting to me.
Speaker 1 (03:09):
You'd have thought I set your house on fire and
kidnapped your children. Yeah, you you researched for I can't
imagine how long to rebuke me for.
Speaker 4 (03:19):
Twenty minutes, But most of it was Most of it
was getting the text into the text. And I would
have told you, but it had to be in writing
so you could really soak it in. And I give
you so many scenarios, but I wanted you to know
that in that statement you were wrong.
Speaker 1 (03:33):
Are you worried that you guys who have been such
lovable losers and somebody who I'd want to root for.
Have you worried you're quickly evolving into the NFL's worst
fan base.
Speaker 3 (03:44):
No, I don't think we're the worst fan base. I
just think are you.
Speaker 1 (03:47):
Are you worried that you're climbing Mount Rushmore to replace
one of the heads.
Speaker 4 (03:52):
I'm worried that next year we will not be America's darling.
But I don't think that that that that title will
go away before the end of this year. And I
don't think as far as like the worst fan base
as it relates to me putting all those stats about
the Detroit Lions offensive line in their run game and
the success.
Speaker 2 (04:10):
Thing, I'm saying, that's it.
Speaker 1 (04:11):
I'm this is more a global commentary as opposed to,
you know, micro commentary. I'm more on a macro level.
Speaker 4 (04:18):
I don't think we have the best like hands down
the best running back or the best quarterback, or the
best defense, or the best receiver or the best tight end.
I will say that we have hands down the best
offensive line.
Speaker 3 (04:31):
And I had to.
Speaker 4 (04:32):
I had to take that swing, so I had to
swing like a Minnesota great Joe Mauer, and I did.
Speaker 3 (04:36):
For the fences.
Speaker 1 (04:38):
I first of all, he didn't hit a lot of
home runs. I don't want to be a part of anything.
Speaker 3 (04:41):
Didn't mean he's didn't swing for the fences.
Speaker 1 (04:43):
I don't want to be a part of anything you're
trying to do where you're trying to nice up to me.
Speaker 2 (04:47):
So I calm down, listen.
Speaker 1 (04:48):
I it's kind of it's funny you're right, because I
don't think I think you still are America's darling.
Speaker 2 (04:54):
Right.
Speaker 1 (04:54):
It's a lot like if you have an uncle who
ruins Thanksgiving every year, like your cousins and parents know
about it, but the rest of the world is like, man,
he's so great.
Speaker 2 (05:05):
I think he's really fun.
Speaker 1 (05:07):
And then but give it a year or two and
you're like, man, we really missed on Jerry. He's did
you hear what he did at the bar last night?
So it could it could be coming. Now, let me
give you this, Let me let me.
Speaker 2 (05:19):
Give you.
Speaker 1 (05:20):
And your team this credit because I said it. We
did a radio show last week. I did it solo
style with Jay as the on air producer. And my
big point was all these people who think that Dan
Campbell is an idiot for not playing his players in
the Niners game are wrong.
Speaker 3 (05:37):
I agree.
Speaker 1 (05:38):
I think in a vacuum with any other team they
were right. But with Dan Campbell, like you can't tell
everybody the sky is blue for three hundred days in
a row and then one day say sorry, it's raining. Sure,
it would have been such a hole in the damn
(05:58):
for him to acknowledge, like you guys are built on
pure toughness, on gamble on who cares? And I think
that thing resonated where he's like, I don't, we'll rest
after we win the.
Speaker 2 (06:08):
Division next week.
Speaker 1 (06:08):
Sure, and man oh man, they sure played like it
on Monday Night.
Speaker 4 (06:14):
Well, I will say that as far as Dan Campbell goes,
you know, first season wasn't great, but we did start
getting like some some excitement. He went from three wins
to nine wins, to twelve wins to now fifteen wins.
He is not afraid to go for it on fourth down,
which I know is something that you and I don't
necessarily agree on. And it's not that we don't agree.
(06:36):
The mentality of it though, like it's a lot of
people see it as foolish.
Speaker 3 (06:39):
I get it.
Speaker 1 (06:40):
I think the analytics people are a little out of
their mind. Analytics remove situation and circumstances, right, who's the
quarterback on the other team?
Speaker 3 (06:48):
Sure?
Speaker 1 (06:49):
What game are we in? What point in the game
are we in? If it's fourth and two and Patrick
Mahomes is on the other side and you're up five,
take the three, go to eight if you're up whatever, Like,
if you want to keep the ball away from him,
you're up seven. Whatever is happening on the other side
(07:10):
of the ball needs to play into your analytical decision.
But my issue with Dan as like a fan, is
how much of it is guttural? Yeah, and how there
is There isn't a science to it, because I think
there's a science to considering who's on the other side,
even though it's an inexact science.
Speaker 2 (07:28):
I just think he's like, Eh, let's go. I feel
like we're moving. I feel like we're moving. Zach.
Speaker 4 (07:34):
What he said since he got here was two reasons.
He wants to go for it on fourth down any will.
And I know it seems guttural, but there is some Uh.
I mean, I guess you could call it a method.
Speaker 2 (07:45):
Two reasons. One I'm angry. Two I'm angry he's.
Speaker 4 (07:50):
He's got that caffeine intake of his double VENTI lattes espresso.
I mean that guy's heck, guy's heart's gonna burst if
he wins the super Bowl because he's happy.
Speaker 3 (07:58):
And just caffeinated.
Speaker 4 (08:00):
I think though, the reason he goes for it on
fourth down, and he said it since he got here,
he wants his guys to think no one believes in
them like he does. And I think that you could
make the argument pretty easily that there's not a team
out there that believes their coach believes in them more
than the Lions. That Dan Campbell believes in the Lions.
And also, which is pretty interesting that he just recently
(08:22):
mentioned in an oppressor, is he doesn't want our team
to balk at a fourth down. You know, when you
normalize going for it on fourth down, those jitters, those nerves,
it's just another it's just another play.
Speaker 2 (08:34):
Now.
Speaker 4 (08:34):
I understand the other side of that, but I do
believe that there is some real logic behind his rationale
of going for it.
Speaker 2 (08:43):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (08:43):
I don't think it's Don't get me wrong. I think
he's incredible. Right, We've talked about on and off the air,
stop it. But I think he and one of the
things I truly enjoy about him is he's kind of
in an era where defensive and offensive coordinat are being hired,
and you know, like, we have one of the best
(09:03):
offensive minds in the league, and he does what he
does and he also manages a team. But Campbell's kind
of the old school throwback Danny Green style. I'm the sheriff.
I trust this guy with the offense. I trust this
guy with the defense, and I dig.
Speaker 3 (09:17):
That it's worked out pretty well for John Harbaugh.
Speaker 2 (09:19):
I think it's really, really, really cool.
Speaker 1 (09:23):
My larger issue is I just don't see and I'm
I'm not trying to talk or push on you here,
like you got the buy now. So it's three games,
three games to win the Super Bowl, and you are
likely going to have to face the Eagles, the Vikings,
(09:45):
the Rams. Those are the three that I think you
could wind up running into in your first two games.
But add those other teams in there, right, the Packers,
the Packers who have been very good.
Speaker 4 (09:55):
The Bucks beat us week two, and then the commander
is Jayden Daniels. Is just you don't know what's gonna
happen with that guy.
Speaker 1 (10:02):
With how top heavy the NFC is this year and
how many good teams there are in the AFC, there's
there's seven or eight legitimate teams that if you won
the Super Bowl, you go, yeah, maybe I thought another
team was more likely, But that doesn't surprise me at all. Sure, right,
like three weeks ago, if somebody would have told you
the Packers are going to win the Super Bowl, you'd
have gone, They're not my number one pick. But I
(10:23):
see how that happens. Yeah, Rams, I'd buy it right now.
And so that's not always the case. In the NFL playoffs,
you know, it's it's sometimes it's more of a one
dog or two dog race. I don't know why I
chose dogs instead of horses.
Speaker 3 (10:36):
But or lions.
Speaker 1 (10:38):
If you God hate it, Zach, if you to have
that mentality succeed three times against three elite teams in
a row, it is that is unique. That would be
it's just almost it's just hard to pull off, no
matter who you are, no matter how good your team is.
(10:59):
I think it's I think it's hard to pull off.
Speaker 4 (11:02):
Our mentality is certainly not the issue. I think we
have the mentality to be able to pull it off.
It comes down to, you know, can Aaron Glenn pull
out another defensive effort like he did, because that was
the best defensive game we've played since Aaron Glenn has
been here, and that's not even considering the injuries. I
will say that the NFC, as far as the Lions
fan goes, they all, especially the Packers and the Vikings,
(11:26):
wor so much tape. But there's just as much tape
for the Bucks and the Rams because we were their
last game last year and we played both of them
this year, so they have. Outside of the Commanders and
the Eagles, the four other teams in the NFC playoffs
have so much tape on us, Like it's easier for
teams to prepare this year because of how often our
(11:49):
teams have matched up.
Speaker 1 (11:51):
But you're saying that about it Aaron Glenn and the
defensive performance and what he did Sunday night, and I
agree with that.
Speaker 2 (11:56):
I think that's all accurate.
Speaker 1 (11:57):
But I did go into that game you and I
talked to saying fourth down is going to be the
decider of this game, and it still was. Even despite
all of that. You had three fourth downs that you
went for, one you got stopped, one you went for
got it touchdown the next play, the other one touchdown
on the fourth down play right, the Vikings went for
it twice on fourth down in the important times and
(12:20):
didn't get it. It was the difference maker. Even even
if the Vikings score those touchdowns, those two fourth downs
that you chose to go for, if you don't get them,
if you don't get one of them, it's literally half
the points.
Speaker 2 (12:32):
So you it's just the execution has to You.
Speaker 1 (12:37):
Have to have a run of three games where your
fourth down philosophy tilts in your favor three times in
a row. Because if you're playing the Ravens, the Chiefs,
the Bills, the Eagles, all these teams that you mentioned
had tape on you. I think against teams like that,
if it goes awry, especially like you said, if the
defense can't put up another performance like that, you're gonna
(13:00):
need to execute that plan the way you want to
or it could get really tough.
Speaker 4 (13:05):
Well, I mean, we did lose against the Bills, but
that fourth down mentality is what kept us in the
Bills because in that game our defense could not stop Buffalo.
So Dan Campbell was like, I know, this is fourth
in a little bit longer than normal, but we're going
for it because we need to keep this offense on
the field to go shot for shot with Josh Allen
and the Bills.
Speaker 3 (13:23):
I do think.
Speaker 4 (13:24):
I do think Dan Campbell has a much better handle
on it than a lot of people think. As far
as fourth down goes, I think he's a lot smarter
than people think given his given his you know, press
conferences and his sound bites and everything, Dan Campbell knows
what he's doing.
Speaker 2 (13:37):
See here's a question for you.
Speaker 1 (13:38):
Do you think if when he first got the job,
if he'd have been and this probably isn't a great
example because this guy got into some trouble for the
way he talked and treated people, But you know how
Gruden kind of had that intense like, you know, that
that kind of football personality that he projected out there.
Do you think if when Dan Campbell first came in,
(14:00):
had he not said the kneecaps thing, and had he
had he just pushed out kind of the intense you know,
football like. You know, he's joyous, sure, but if he'd
just seemed more competitive then he did silly like if
he hadn't done those kneecaps and if you guys hadn't
have been hard knocks that first year, do you think
he has any of the national detractors that he currently has.
Speaker 3 (14:22):
I don't know that he has.
Speaker 1 (14:24):
Here's what I'll say, and I wouldn't say detractors, but
I think there's a whole host of people waiting for
the way that he approaches the game to bite them
in the app Yeah.
Speaker 4 (14:32):
But those people are not in Detroit. Those people are
not the ones listening to him on the radio. They're
not listening to him on the radio. They're not listening
to him in his press conferences. You're only seeing the
soundbites that major outlets will pick up. One thing I
will say, Gruden never came off as like a nice guy.
I don't think Gruden had an affability to him. Now,
Dan Campbell he goes and he says these ridiculous things.
(14:53):
He says kneecaps, he wears a motto helmet, whatever. He
also stops press conferences to tell reporters, congratulations on your retirement.
You have been great for this city. Oh, I heard
about your wife. I'm so sorry to hear a bit.
Dan Campbell is the I would say, as far as
the media goes, I would say the media would consider
(15:14):
Dan Campbell one of the friendliest coaches in the league.
I don't think. I think he is one hundred percent
who he is and has been since he took the
press conference the first time.
Speaker 1 (15:22):
Yeah, I guess what I'm saying is, I'm not questioning that.
I'm in with you. I think it's I'm more fascinated
by this, the fourth down thing, the Campbell gamble, and
the national narrative.
Speaker 2 (15:31):
About who he is as a guy.
Speaker 1 (15:33):
Sure, and had those silly soundbites early and hard knocks
not happened, Because here's the thing.
Speaker 2 (15:41):
Campbell is getting a lot of.
Speaker 1 (15:42):
Love for the for the Coach of the Year award,
But do you think if those early moments wouldn't have
happened on whatever, do you think he would be consistently
mentioned because he's not. When they bring up the great
coaches in the league, they acknowledge him, but they don't go,
it's Tomlin, it's McVeigh, so Connell, it's Andy Reid, it's
Dan Campbell. He's kind of this separate category. We're like,
(16:04):
these are all great football coaches, and here's Dan Campbell,
who's also great.
Speaker 4 (16:07):
I think Dan Campbell has one of the toughest proofs
in the NFL. I think people have a hard time
getting over the name the Lions, like they've just historically
been so bad. They've historically had coaches that have had
success elsewhere and then they come here and it's, you know,
it is a dumpster fire. But I think a lot
of that goes into the fact that this is all
(16:30):
Brad Holmes and Dan Campbell are Sheila Ford's first hires. Now,
her first fire was Matt Patricia. She had that foresight.
But then she brought in these guys. She went and
found them. This is this is not her dad's team anymore.
This is not her mom's team who were running it
long before. This is her team and it's and it's very,
very different. And you could tell from Brad Holmes and
(16:50):
Dan Campbell's first press conferences this is like, these guys
are not and they weren't. They were not heralded hires,
like nobody. Dan Campbell was kind of always been, you know,
he's always been in the cycle, but no one took
him seriously. No one even knew who Brad Holmes was.
And I think Sheila knew what she wanted. She went on,
got it.
Speaker 2 (17:08):
Let's talk about the playoffs.
Speaker 1 (17:09):
Le's talk about my team. Yep, let's you know, you
guys get the one seed, we get.
Speaker 3 (17:14):
The five, which is ridiculous. They got to receive this thing.
Speaker 1 (17:17):
Let me ask you something that earlier Lions game this season.
I think everybody remembers that as a very close competitive game.
I think you guys really had a hold of that
game until the Ivan pace fumble. Like obviously it was
close enough that we could take the lead with that,
but I just really thought you guys all game long
were doing what you wanted to do, so it never
(17:40):
really felt like as a fan, I felt like we
were gonna have to score or hold the ball, or
we had to get the lead and keep you know,
it was one of those sort of games. So you guys,
what have you beaten us five times in a row?
Speaker 2 (17:51):
Now?
Speaker 3 (17:51):
Yep?
Speaker 2 (17:53):
So here's my question.
Speaker 1 (17:55):
You know, we get the Rams, You've got the Packers
at the Eagles, which I think we're all this is crazy.
Speaker 2 (18:01):
We're both rooting for the Packers, right Oh yea.
Speaker 4 (18:05):
I will say what I said to my family and
friends when the Packers were playing the Vikings, because it
would have just made last week's game not important. I go,
I'm not rooting. I can't say that I'm rooting for them.
I'm rooting for the Lions, and that like it's weird
to say you're rooting for the Packers.
Speaker 3 (18:22):
It's weird, you will, Yeah.
Speaker 2 (18:24):
I like the way you phrase it. I'm rooting for
the Eagles to lose.
Speaker 1 (18:26):
I'm rooting for the future matchups of my favorite team.
Speaker 2 (18:30):
So I think we both want that.
Speaker 1 (18:32):
But knowing that you have so many options that could
walk through your door, you essentially have three options, right,
you could get the Vikings. I believe you could get
the Commanders, or you could get the Packers. Right, there's
no situation where you can wind up against the two
or the three seed. It just doesn't work like that math.
(18:52):
You know the way they do settings up right? Do
you want to see the Vikings again? Do you want
to see the Packers? Are you hoping the Commanders get through?
What are you looking for on opening weekend? And then
I'll tell you where I'm going with my team.
Speaker 4 (19:04):
The best game for the Lions, the most entertaining game
would be the Packers or the Vikings. And I would
say I would give a slight edge to the most
entertaining game being to the Vikings because the first game
was close, this last game had so much on the line.
Speaker 1 (19:21):
I don't care about entertaining Zach. I want to know
who you're scared of. What do you not want to
have happen?
Speaker 4 (19:28):
I guess the most the team I'm most scared of
is the Vikings. I would give them the slight edge
over the Packers too.
Speaker 1 (19:33):
Thank you for doing that on my Viking Show. You're
absolutely correct, though. I always think it's hard to beat
a team three times in a season. I don't think
you want to give a team another shot, and I
think I think what happened on Sunday night was, you know,
brilliantly game planned game. But it's not like you're going
to surprise anybody without a second.
Speaker 3 (19:51):
Time, especially two weeks apart.
Speaker 1 (19:53):
Yes, that's just generally, generally not how it works. I
think the big question is how do the vi Kings
bounce back? How do they recoup? You said something after
the last game is you guys play such a physical,
punch you in the mouth sort of football that to
not only get over the emotional hump of losing such
a big game, you have to get over the physical hump,
(20:15):
and then you're gonna have to go play this really
good team with this really.
Speaker 2 (20:18):
Good coach ye and now they do.
Speaker 1 (20:21):
Last time, you know, we didn't know they were gonna
have all their weapons kind of un tell moment of
this time, we know they have everything. They're one of
the hottest teams in football. I think this is truly
truly a monstrous task. Oh yeah, for Kevin O'Connell and
Sam Darnold specifically, those guys who you know are gonna
(20:42):
look to rebound, man if they can, and if they do,
it'll be a major feather in the cap because this
is gonna be no joke against that young defense.
Speaker 3 (20:50):
I mean, Koc comes from the McVeigh tree.
Speaker 2 (20:53):
Does any yep O coordinator won a Super Bowl there?
Speaker 4 (20:56):
So I would love I mean, the storyline of it,
the branch cutting down the stuf, you know, I think
I think that's I think that I guess it would
be the branch cutting down the trunk and not the stump.
I guess if KOC wins, then McVeigh would be left
as a stump of himself.
Speaker 3 (21:11):
But I digress.
Speaker 4 (21:13):
I would like to see. I would like to see.
I would like to see. Okay, I mean, you heard
what Dan Campbell said after the game. He's like, I'll
see in two weeks so it seems. I don't know
if it's a red herring. Dan Campbell is, you know,
sly like a fox, but he seems to them. Yeah,
the Vikings are coming back.
Speaker 1 (21:30):
I just get a really great coach and a really
great quarterback and a really great wide receiver.
Speaker 3 (21:35):
And Kyron Williams is a very good running back.
Speaker 1 (21:37):
He's running the ball very well. They're they're just a
very good football team. I think who you thought you
might wind up against four or five six weeks ago
as the five seed, it has not played out like
that in any way, shape or form, And you're getting
a lot more different.
Speaker 2 (21:53):
And you're on the road.
Speaker 3 (21:54):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (21:54):
Right, well here's what I'm hoping. I'm hoping that was like,
you know, you make a little snow the top of
a mountain, right, you roll it a little bit. All
of a sudden it's a little bigger, and you think
and it slips out of your hand. Like I just think,
there was so much that went into Sunday Night to
(22:16):
make Sunday Night what it was, and that thirty one
to nine doesn't reflect the game. It just absolutely does not.
I mean you're sitting there, I think as a guy
who doesn't know the x's and o's of football, But
you're sitting there thinking if the Vikings had executed on
you know, two of their red zone trips and turned
them into touchdowns, right.
Speaker 3 (22:35):
Yeah, that was bananas.
Speaker 4 (22:36):
I mean the statistically what happened for you guys in
the red zone is an anomaly.
Speaker 1 (22:40):
That was why pretty pretty unique, and I think you
could have wound up with two three touchdowns early and
a pretty significant lead a league going into halftime, a
touchdown coming. Some of these things that we've seen over
and over and over, right, So do do I sit
here and do I think what I've seen all season?
I'm not saying that the offense has been the epito
me of excellence, but they've been more consistent than that.
(23:03):
Am I gonna buy seventeen weeks of that? Or am
I gonna buy this one game? And my hope is like,
I just don't think with the sort of coach Kevin
O'Connell is and the sort of relationship he has with
Sam and just the way our team works right in
from a confidence standpoint, to me, I don't know whether
(23:24):
or not they win in this game, but I don't
think they come out shaken shook from what happened on
Sunday night.
Speaker 4 (23:31):
I don't think they come out shook at all. I
think they come out with a fire lit under their rumpus.
You've got competitors on your team. I mean, justin Jefferson
is he was irritated last game, so I think he's
coming out to show I am Jay Jetta's Jordan Addison,
I think is the same situation. He's like, I did
not get my I did not get my meal last week,
(23:54):
like he just it wasn't there Aaron Jones hell of
a competitor. And then your defense, I mean, Brian Floors
aside your edge rushers, Oh my god, Harrison Smith's still
playing at a very high level. I mean it was
I don't yeah, I don't think this is just some
chalk it up to wor shown.
Speaker 1 (24:10):
And and I kind of I want the one seed, right,
that's I'm angry that you have the one seed. I'd
rather have the one seed. But this team thrived all
year long on like they never got the love, they
never got the respect, right.
Speaker 4 (24:23):
The only thing that Vikings did the Vikings were I mean,
it seemed like nationally everybody was picking the Vikings this
past week, whereas the entire season, no one was believing in.
Speaker 2 (24:32):
The Vikings literally all year long.
Speaker 4 (24:34):
Yeah, they liked to they like to overcome the adversity.
It was an unusual situation last week where you guys
were so favored by so many people.
Speaker 2 (24:43):
So, yeah, that's exactly what I'm saying.
Speaker 1 (24:45):
All year long, no matter what we did, there were
teams with worst records and teams we beat, like the
Packers in front of us in the you know, power rankings.
Whether those matter or not, they reflect national outlets opinions. Right,
So all you have that all year and then all
of a sudden, the moment they beat the Packers, everybody's like, oh,
(25:06):
this is so like my hope is you have no choice,
but you know, let's return to that mentality.
Speaker 2 (25:13):
I think.
Speaker 1 (25:13):
I think I think the team will find a home
in that mentality. They might not be at home, but
they will find people questioning them to be more of
a home than than you would expect. I think with Darnold.
Speaker 3 (25:29):
That was beautiful.
Speaker 4 (25:30):
I think that the needle point and put that in
a needle point and hang it somewhere. That was just
thank you, I know what you're doing. Thank you, kind
of like Ben Johnson's offense, No.
Speaker 2 (25:38):
Thank you, So yeah, I mean, I think the the the.
Speaker 1 (25:43):
Puka thing is a little scary. You're all, you're always
so you're always a little scared of Matthew Stafford and Pooka.
Let's let me ask you this. Let me ask a
question about you. Is there any you guys going to
the Super Bowl? Do you get caught up in any
romanticism aspect of it? Like? And let me tell you
what I mean by that. So let's pretend the Rams
(26:05):
were playing somebody else. Let's pretend they'd won that game,
and we're heading to Tampa right now. So Rams, whatever
they win, you know, they go play Philadelphia, they beat Philadelphia,
you win your next game in this universe. I don't
know why I had to let them not beat the
Vikings because in this universe the Vikings aren't in the
NFC Championship game anyways, But I just refuse to let
(26:27):
them be in a matchup against us in this fiction.
Speaker 3 (26:29):
Thatials where your heart is even in a hypothetical.
Speaker 1 (26:32):
So let's say it's an NFC Championship game and the
Rams are coming to your building, is there anything romantic
about that?
Speaker 2 (26:40):
Like?
Speaker 1 (26:40):
For you guys, to get to your first Super Bowl.
It would mean so much to beat matt Stafford and
to beat the Rams, and or would you or is
there more fear? Like oh my god, I don't want
to be the team that I know how the Viking
fan base would handle it. They're like, oh no, the
guy that we got rid of can now ruin our
(27:01):
best season in franchise history.
Speaker 4 (27:03):
I am not afraid of Matthew Stafford. And I also
do not feel as though there is any romanticism in it, because,
I mean, we played him in the playoffs last year,
we beat him, We played them early this year, we
beat him. Obviously, I don't want to, you know, you
never want to lose, especially to a guy that you
had for so long. But on the flip side of that,
(27:24):
they've lost twice now to a guy they just were
dying to give away in Jared Goff. So I don't
think there's any romanticism. I think the only romanticism of
it is that the Lions have never been to a
Super Bowl. We've only been to, I mean, less than
a handful of NFC championships. It's just a matter of
it's just a matter of getting there and winning. I
(27:45):
don't think it matters who it's against. I don't think
it matters how it's done.
Speaker 2 (27:49):
Yeah you don't.
Speaker 1 (27:50):
You're not haunted like the Viking fan bases, where they go, Man,
what if we beat the Falcons in the first round
and we beat the Saints in the second round and
this path that, like you know, exercises all your your
football demons.
Speaker 3 (28:05):
No, man, just as Nike says, just do it. Just
get that dub I just I hate that too.
Speaker 4 (28:12):
I don't like it either, but I don't feel good
about it. But it's what came to my mind, and
I trust my instincts, much like Dan Campbell on Fourth Town.
Speaker 2 (28:18):
Very much like Dan Campbell in that way.
Speaker 1 (28:20):
It's also interesting how your perspective can shift in a season.
I'm so jacked for the playoffs in a season that
I didn't. I was telling everybody like, hey, if we
want a bunch of games, great, If not great, we're
heading the right direction.
Speaker 2 (28:33):
Yep. And now you look at it as this major
building point for the future.
Speaker 1 (28:37):
I think it's gonna be Do you have any I
know you don't because I know your mentality as a human,
but I still am gonna ask the question, do you
have any like, maybe this is the year Ben Johnson
takes a job. Maybe next year is the year that
Jared Goff's contract starts to affect the roster. Maybe like
maybe maybe maybe maybe do like all these things that
have made this is inarguably, right the greatest year in
(29:00):
franchise history.
Speaker 2 (29:01):
Yeah, wouldn't you say.
Speaker 3 (29:03):
A shadow of it out?
Speaker 1 (29:04):
Is there any part of your brain that thinks we
have to strike now we had, like I don't want
to wait and see if we can strike again the
next two years? There's like this is a Because you
watch old NFL films, the thing you hear the most
is you know, I got there and I thought I
would I thought this is just the start, and that's just.
Speaker 2 (29:24):
Not how it works.
Speaker 1 (29:25):
Or do you are you tricked by the Patriots Chiefs
universe where you think you can just be relevant for
a really, really long time.
Speaker 3 (29:36):
Well I think that.
Speaker 4 (29:37):
You know, when you mentioned the Patriots and the Chiefs,
what it comes down to is the one thing that
they kept.
Speaker 3 (29:42):
Well, I guess with the Chiefs it was you.
Speaker 4 (29:44):
Know, Andy Reid and their players. It was until Tom
Brady left, it was Bill Belichick and their players. Now
I would be lying if I said, I wasn't worried
about Ben Johnson and Aaron Glenn leaving because what you
alluded to earlier, Dan Campbell's the sheriff.
Speaker 3 (30:00):
This guy am I right, I trust this guy on
my left. Let's go, let's go fight.
Speaker 4 (30:04):
But I do think that there are I do think
Dan Campbell and Brad Holmes have an ability to scout
motivators and good coaches the same way that they do players.
I have to brace myself for the fact that I mean,
if you, if you know, gun to my head, I
(30:25):
would say Aaron Glenn has a better chance of taking
a head coaching job than Ben Johnson does. And that's
not to say that I don't think Ben Johnson is
a surefire. You know, gone, He's going to be very
particular about the jobs that he takes. I mean that's
been publicized out there and everything. But I do think
that there are candidates in house that would be good.
And I do think that there are candidates available, especially
on the defensive side of the ball, to you know,
(30:47):
come in and do what Dan Campbell does. I mean,
Dan Campbell's going to bring in guys that reflect his mentality.
Speaker 3 (30:53):
That's just how it is.
Speaker 1 (30:54):
I've been thinking about Ben Johnson a lot, and we're
both comedians, and as a comedian, when you're starting, you
think of yourself as like, and I don't know how
you thought of it. I'm an egomaniac, but I want
to have my own TV show. I want to be there,
you know, you want to be as big as you can.
You want to do the theater tour. And then you
(31:16):
think about what people used to say about Brian Reagan
and still say, is you know, Brian Reagan's one of
the best comedians to ever live.
Speaker 3 (31:24):
Yep.
Speaker 1 (31:24):
He's immensely well known, but he can just go do
a show, go have dinner, and walk back to the
hotel and no one bothers him.
Speaker 3 (31:33):
Yep, and yep.
Speaker 1 (31:35):
I think about my ego. Would always want to be
a head coach. I always want to be.
Speaker 2 (31:40):
In charge, YadA, YadA, YadA.
Speaker 1 (31:42):
But if you're Ben Johnson and you truly do like
calling plays, which, by the way, I think people forget
and I think this is.
Speaker 2 (31:49):
Evidenced he's creative, man. I think this is evidenced with
the Dan Campbell thing.
Speaker 1 (31:53):
I think because we're so used to coordinators getting jobs,
you forget that a head coach is an entirely different
skill set. Absolutely, Kevin O'Connell is such a unique and
Andy Reid is also, Mike Tomlin is also there's they're
unique combinations of guys who call their side of the
ball and run their side of the ball and can
(32:15):
also run the organization and all the things that need
Like that's they're two. It's like auditioning and acting.
Speaker 2 (32:21):
They're not. They don't. They're very different.
Speaker 1 (32:23):
They people from the outside might go, well, that's coaching,
but from the inside, they're very You're like dealing with flights,
you're dealing with all these you're kind of like in
a different universe managing an entire building of people, you know,
or a team of people. Like if you're Ben Johnson
and you're not gonna like the way I'm thinking about.
Speaker 3 (32:43):
This, Oh don't worry. I'm ready to rephrase.
Speaker 1 (32:45):
But let's say you go and you win a Super
Bowl or you do really well this year. Is there
a universe where you go, Okay, I'm gonna let my
contract run out here, I'm gonna let the Lions bit
on me. But guess what, I don't want to be
a head coach now. I want to be paid the
best assistant coach in the NFL buy a significant amount,
and I'm a hired gun.
Speaker 2 (33:05):
Every everybody in the league.
Speaker 1 (33:08):
I'm open, Come pitch me, Come you want me to
come and run your offense? Like what an interesting thing
to not have the pressure of an organization and all
it's like all your job is to hand pick because
you can tell me outside of the guys who run
their own offense, you think there's any team in the
league right now that if Ben Johnson was like, I'm
(33:30):
leaving the Lions and I'd like to I'd like to
offensively coordinate somewhere else that he wouldn't have suitors lining
out the door, impressive quarterbacks and weapons running out the door,
even even some of the really impressive ones. You don't
think Zach Taylor in Cincinnati would go, hey, why don't
you come down here and run bro So it's never
gonna have Zach.
Speaker 4 (33:50):
Taylor tried to poach Ben Johnson when he was the
tight ends coach. I mean he went after him.
Speaker 1 (33:55):
I don't think ever in a million years, I don't
think you get to be an offensive coordinator with the
sort of drive it takes to be a head coach,
right because that's a hard path. But man, he could
really walk an interesting path if he wanted to.
Speaker 4 (34:09):
I'll tell you we talk about Jared Goss contract and
all that. The head coaches contract, any of the staff's
contract does not affect the salary cap whatsoever. There is
not a world where we continue on the trajectory putting
up the points that we have the past year, where
she La Ford would let Ben Johnson leave to go
(34:30):
coordinate another offense. She would, she would pay him, she would,
she would do what the Lions did with brock Wright
in San Francisco. They she would match and rays.
Speaker 1 (34:39):
I'm not saying whether she would do that. I'm saying, like,
if I'm Ben Johnson and I go, that's great, that's great.
But before I commit to Jared, go like, I need
to see what the organization and what the talent. Because
here's the other thing about the Detroit Lions. They have
one of the two best offensive lines in all of football.
Speaker 3 (34:59):
They have well, yeah, one of the two, the top
of the two, but yeah, go ahead.
Speaker 1 (35:02):
So they have one of the two top offensive lines
in the NFL.
Speaker 2 (35:05):
They have elite, an elite.
Speaker 1 (35:09):
Running back, they have an incredible receiver, they have they
have a fantastic young titand like they have all these
pieces and we don't know what those pieces are gonna
look like in three years, right Like Cincinnati's gone through
that right now. A few years ago it was Joe Mixon,
Tyler boyd uh T Higgins, Jamar Chase, Joey Burrow, all
this stuff, and all of a sudden, now it's they
(35:31):
haven't paid Chase, they haven't paid Higgins. Higgins has probably gone,
Joe Mixon has been gone for a year, Chase Brown
doesn't really fit.
Speaker 2 (35:37):
They had Giseki in this year, you know. It's so.
Speaker 1 (35:43):
What I'm saying is whether or not the dollar figure
would keep you there, Like if you're that good and
you're like, because everybody like I can't tell. With the
way people talk about him nationally, it's half the stories
is he's going to be really really picky, and half
the stories are are he's not sure he.
Speaker 2 (36:02):
Wants to do all the head coach stuff.
Speaker 3 (36:04):
YEP.
Speaker 1 (36:05):
So in that case, I'm saying, like, do you step
back in when your contract runs out and you go,
what's the best situation and you just go become the
literally a Hall of Fame coordinator.
Speaker 2 (36:15):
The greatest coordinator in NFL history.
Speaker 4 (36:18):
You know, going back to you know what we talked
about with the press conference in Dan Campbell, and the
national media doesn't see or hear the things that they
don't want to sound. Clip Ben Johnson's press conferences. He's
wildly loyal to Dan Campbell. He is wildly loyal to
the city of Detroit. And the only reason I could
(36:40):
see him.
Speaker 1 (36:42):
In the history of football keep going, or basketball or soccer,
I would say, any other sports.
Speaker 2 (36:47):
Hockey, I would say.
Speaker 4 (36:49):
The only reason that in your scenario that Ben Johnson
would leave the Detroit Lions and the you know, the
quarterback that he has built his offense around, the two
running backs, the two receivers, the tight end, the offensive line,
like ever, all the pieces you have, is to prove that,
in fact, he is the greatest coordinator of all time
and go and take on a real project like a
(37:12):
like a like a Raiders right now, or you know,
I can't even say New England. Who's the worst offense
in the league right now?
Speaker 2 (37:19):
Jacksonville Jaguars. I don't know. I'm not a big stat.
Speaker 4 (37:22):
I mean, that's a nice situation though, because of Trevor
Lawrence and you know Travis Atan's not bad. Tank Bigsby
played well.
Speaker 1 (37:27):
I don't think you're going to I don't agree with that.
I think you're going I think you want to go
and prove.
Speaker 3 (37:32):
You don't know him. Sigh, you don't know him.
Speaker 1 (37:36):
Let's talk about the AFC really quick, and then I'm
gonna and then I want your prediction for what happens
this week.
Speaker 2 (37:42):
Okay, So you have the AFC, we have Chiefs.
Speaker 1 (37:48):
Get the one seed Bill's Broncos, which Sean McDermott has
an incredible record against rookie quarterbacks that's gonna be tested
against Bonnicks.
Speaker 3 (37:57):
Their defense is so good. Denver's defense is incredible.
Speaker 1 (38:00):
Yeah, I'm not as big of a bon Knicks guy
as I think bo Nicks might. He might end up
being a Hall of Famer, But like bo Nicks has
a lot of really great first halves and a lot
of okay second halves. And to me, that says Sean
Payton is an awesome coach, he is scripting, he is helping,
and then we.
Speaker 2 (38:17):
Go from there. But Sean McDermott historically and that defense
is really good.
Speaker 1 (38:21):
So you got you got the Bills there, You've got
the Ravens Steelers, which the Steelers do. As I detour
on each of these, I just wanted to read the
three and then have you tell me which team was
the most likely upset pick. But this thing in Pittsburgh
where all these fans, I have so many Pittsburgh friend fans,
fan friends, Pittsburgh fan friends who keep They're like, they
want to get rid of Tomlin. They're like, it's time
(38:43):
we need a culture shift, dude, bro right from fan
bases who haven't had great coaches forever.
Speaker 2 (38:50):
We have him now, but we haven't had it forever.
Speaker 1 (38:52):
They're like, well, we're never gonna be bad enough to
get a pick, and we're never good. You're like, dude,
figure out your personal do something anything other than getting
rid of Mike Tomlin.
Speaker 4 (39:02):
That's such a spoiled mentality to say we're never going
to be bad enough to get a pick. You mean
you're content every year that he's been there, you've won,
you've had hope, you've had a legitimate reason to believe
that you could go and make some noise. And you're like, oh,
that's ridiculous, that's such a that's such a spoiled fan base.
Speaker 1 (39:23):
I couldn't agree more so. Then you got the Texans
the Chargers. So of those matchups, do you have any
do you have any of those teams that you think
should be on upset Watch? And I mean, I don't
know if you can call the Texans a major upset
to the Chargers, But do you have any team that
others wouldn't suspect making or run.
Speaker 4 (39:44):
I think the Chargers take down the Texans. I think
I think the Steelers. I think the Steelers could take
down the Rave That would be my AFC upset. That
would be my AFC.
Speaker 1 (39:56):
I got to tell you, if that happens, that would
be off of four or five straight losses.
Speaker 4 (40:00):
Yeah, that would be That would be another testament to
Mike Tomlin and against all of those Pittsburgh fans. And
if there's a coach that can do it, it's him.
Speaker 2 (40:06):
Now.
Speaker 1 (40:06):
They haven't won a playoff game in like eight years,
that's true. And I will tell you if the Steelers
win that game, if they go into their division rival,
division champ Raven's house, after everybody's screaming the Lamar MVP argument,
after they have all these like they're whatever whatever in Dvoa,
(40:26):
Lamar has the second greatest passer rating you know, in
NFL history, and they go in and beat him round one.
Who that lamar noise is gonna get really, really loud. Now,
I love a Chargers run.
Speaker 3 (40:40):
I mean, they've they've gone through some pain over the years.
Speaker 2 (40:43):
I like.
Speaker 1 (40:44):
I think Jim Harbaugh is such a uniquely impressive coach
in the way that I don't know, maybe he wears
people out, but the first couple of years, man, he's gangbusters, sure.
Speaker 2 (40:53):
And Justin Herbert.
Speaker 1 (40:55):
Is playing so efficiently. He's throwing the ball so much
less this year and playing at a efficient clip throwing
the ball.
Speaker 4 (41:01):
So much less, but his receivers are still regularly going
over one hundred and fifty yards. Like, you're absolutely right.
The efficiency is off the charts. And Justin Herbert is
a different quarterback than Jaj McCarthy was in at Michigan.
Speaker 3 (41:12):
So like to see that.
Speaker 4 (41:14):
Arm talent all of a sudden, and the things that
the play the way the playbook opens up for Justin
Herbert as opposed to you know, a run first, let's
jam it down your throat offense has been pretty impressive
and he hasn't straight too far away from that.
Speaker 1 (41:25):
Yeah, So I I think it's unlikely. But if you
are making me pick a an unlikely run to the
super Bowl or to a championship game, it's the Chargers.
I should keep your eye on the Chargers. I just
think he's battle tested. I think he's been there. It's
it's kind of like, you know, if you're the Chicago Bears, right,
or if you're the Jets. You know, I saw somebody
(41:47):
talking about this, like all the candidates they're considering, don't
you want a culture don't you want to proven commodity
culture shifter like Mike Rabel, Like they're chasing a lot
of assistance, but like that's what they got in Uh,
that is what they got in.
Speaker 2 (42:04):
Harbaugh in La.
Speaker 1 (42:06):
He came in and he's like, no, no, no, no, no,
we do all this this way now. And he's just
he's just been there and seen so many things. So
I think that could be really interesting. All right, here's
the deal. I'm gonna let you pick a couple of
games that matter. Okay, first, at first, I want what
do you think is gonna happen in the Eagles Packers game?
Speaker 2 (42:26):
You think the Packers got any shot?
Speaker 3 (42:27):
I mean, the Packers have a shot.
Speaker 4 (42:28):
I do think that the Eagles have the second best
offensive line in the league and the best running back
in the league.
Speaker 3 (42:35):
I not to mention, I mean, I think I think
the Eagles win that.
Speaker 2 (42:38):
So I the only thing I would say is.
Speaker 1 (42:44):
The Packers have such a good defensive line, a front
four generally.
Speaker 2 (42:48):
Now, did the Vikings.
Speaker 1 (42:49):
Handle them well, they sure did, But they have such
a good front four that that is that is the
way you have to you have to compete with.
Speaker 4 (42:59):
They're not playing Jared Goff or Sam Darnold. They're playing
Jalen Hurts, who can move.
Speaker 1 (43:04):
I understand, but I also think he's you know, he's
had an up and down year. He's also still in
concussion protocol. Yeah, we'll see what happens when the show
comes out, but that's where he is right now. Uh.
But I think in order to beat the Egos, you
gotta get pressure, and that's really hard to do against
that line. They have a really good front four, and
(43:25):
they win. They blitz with Halfley. It's effective. I think
it's unlikely, but I'd like it. Okay, So next up,
let's do Commander's Buccaneers.
Speaker 4 (43:34):
Oh God, I'd love to see the Commanders win. But
I also I would also love you.
Speaker 2 (43:39):
The team you're most worried about is the Buccaneers.
Speaker 1 (43:42):
No, I think if you really had to think about it,
they're scoring like forty points a game. They're going nuts.
They've been a thorn in your side. I think I
was a Lions fan, I would want them out immediately.
Speaker 4 (43:55):
I think ideally as a Lions fan, I can see
where you're coming from. I think as the team of
the line, I think two teams that they want another
crack at are the Bucks and the Bills. I bet
you I can see them wanting to play the Bucks
just before they have to play the Bills and win
out against the teams that beat us and go feeling like,
I mean, we beat everybody.
Speaker 2 (44:16):
Listen to me.
Speaker 1 (44:16):
I think that's great and really cute. You do not
want the Bills. You don't want the Bills. You don't
of all the teams. If I'm picking the one team
that I don't think the Lions should play against, it's
the Buffalo Bills.
Speaker 3 (44:32):
We lost by three with no defense.
Speaker 1 (44:34):
They are a horrific matchup for you. It's gonna be
Josh Allen. I think he's so good. He's so good,
but he's so much better than people even think because
they're used to watching him outdoors in Buffalo. He is
just like you literally are gonna have to perfectly outscore.
Speaker 2 (44:53):
Him if your two teams play market.
Speaker 1 (44:55):
And I know and I know that's something that you
fantasize and want. I'm just saying I I think you'd
be better off seeing the Chiefs, even though Mahomes and
Reid are all time.
Speaker 3 (45:05):
It would be better off seeing the Broncos well, sure.
Speaker 2 (45:09):
Sure rams hosting the Vikings.
Speaker 3 (45:13):
I think the Vikings take that.
Speaker 1 (45:15):
Yeah, Jay, dump it. I don't want him jinxing us.
I wanted the hatred. I want you to come for us,
and then I want us to prove you wrong.
Speaker 4 (45:23):
Listen, there is nothing that will ever make me fine.
I went through everything with the Lions. I went through
h to sixteen. I went through heartbreak, I went through
terrible coaches. I went through busts of draft picks. I
went through all of it. I will never ever have
anyone close to my love for the Detroit Lions. But
(45:45):
with all that you guys have done, and you know
you guys are constantly having me on, the Vikings are
my second favorite team just because of the goodwill you
put out there.
Speaker 1 (45:53):
I just I just accept it, exactly, accept exactly what
you're doing.
Speaker 4 (45:58):
I know, Oh my god, you're like the Grinch when
his heart grew three sizes. You're so full of joy
and life.
Speaker 1 (46:04):
I AI what you're doing. I know exactly what you're doing.
You and your second best offensive line in the league.
Speaker 2 (46:13):
That's gonna do.
Speaker 3 (46:14):
It for us, post the start, post the stats.
Speaker 1 (46:17):
That's gonna do it for us on the tailgate this week.
Thank you so much to Zach Martine for joining the
show as always.
Speaker 2 (46:26):
Thank you, buddy, and thank you guys.
Speaker 1 (46:28):
For listening to our podcast feed. Hey, well you're here,
go give us a review, give us five stars. It
actually helps us out a lot in the elgo rhythm. Finally,
a huge shout out to Ticketmaster, the official ticket marketplace
of the Minnesota Vikings, for helping make this show happen.
And hey, we're gonna keep kicking out Vikings tailgate shows
throughout their playoff run, and we'll do some in the offseason.
(46:51):
So stick around, stay tuned, keep checking us out.
Speaker 2 (46:54):
We'll see you guys soon. Have a great week, everybody,
As the official ticket marketplace of the Minnesota Vikings and
the NFL. Ticketmasters the safest and most convenient marketplace to
score fully verified Vikings tickets.
Speaker 2 (00:09):
So get those.
Speaker 1 (00:09):
Touchdown celebrations ready and score your tickets today at ticketmaster
dot com. Slash Vikings Unreal is back with their limited
edition Vikings drop. Head over to unrl dot com for
more details. Hey, you could win a Polaris razor and
help vets get a quality career. Visit all true dot
(00:32):
com slash code for more details. Hey, everybody, welcome back
to the Vikings Tailgate. It's cy aman Sin. Thank you
for joining the official podcast feed. Super bombed terrible game
in Detroit, officially playing the Rams as the fifth seed.
Speaker 2 (00:49):
But it's time to.
Speaker 1 (00:50):
Talk about that a little bit and then turn the page.
Because there's still a lot in front of this team.
We decided to bring back our old friend and die
hard Lions fan, Zach Martina, to talk about the game
that was and the playoffs that will be. I think
you guys are really gonna like this one.
Speaker 2 (01:09):
Enjoy the show.
Speaker 1 (01:10):
Everybody, recket recket turn here.
Speaker 2 (01:24):
Hey, everybody, welcome into the tailgate.
Speaker 1 (01:27):
We are joined. People aren't gonna like this. A lot
of Viking fans are upset. I'm upset, but the playoffs
are in front of us. We're going to talk NFC playoffs,
and we had we knew that last game was important,
and so we knew we were gonna want to talk
about it a little bit afterwards. So obviously, podcast favorite
(01:47):
diehard Detroit Lions fans, Zach Martinez here, Hi Zack, I'm
not done talking, Hi Zac.
Speaker 3 (01:53):
Hi Si.
Speaker 4 (01:54):
I'm surprised that you're doing another post game podcast because
listen to me, you were not thrilled after the last one.
You said we'll never do it again. I'm sorry, I
couldn't do it beforehand. I just got my voice back.
Speaker 2 (02:07):
Listen to me.
Speaker 1 (02:08):
We decided when you lost your voice and couldn't do
the pre one that we would do a post one
before the results of the game.
Speaker 2 (02:14):
And do I regret that right now? Yeah? I hate it.
Speaker 1 (02:17):
I hate it a lot, but I'm a man of
my word and we are going to keep going until
this show is over. So obviously we're gonna talk about
what happened. But then I do because we both have
a vested interest in the playoffs. The Vikings have the
Rams the Vikings have Matthew Stafford, your old person. We're
gonna talk about the NFC. We're going to talk about
the paths for both teams. But first I will say
(02:41):
so before the Viking Packer game, you and I are
on the phone and we're just talking like friends. And
I'm not I'm not a trash talker. Nope, people know
this right. But we're just talking football. And I mentioned,
we're not even talking about your team or they're my team.
We're talking about the Philadelphia Egos, and I mentioned that
(03:03):
they have one of the best O lines in football
in the last.
Speaker 2 (03:06):
Thirty years, and that was upsetting to me.
Speaker 1 (03:09):
You'd have thought I set your house on fire and
kidnapped your children. Yeah, you you researched for I can't
imagine how long to rebuke me for.
Speaker 4 (03:19):
Twenty minutes, But most of it was Most of it
was getting the text into the text. And I would
have told you, but it had to be in writing
so you could really soak it in. And I give
you so many scenarios, but I wanted you to know
that in that statement you were wrong.
Speaker 1 (03:33):
Are you worried that you guys who have been such
lovable losers and somebody who I'd want to root for.
Have you worried you're quickly evolving into the NFL's worst
fan base.
Speaker 3 (03:44):
No, I don't think we're the worst fan base. I
just think are you.
Speaker 1 (03:47):
Are you worried that you're climbing Mount Rushmore to replace
one of the heads.
Speaker 4 (03:52):
I'm worried that next year we will not be America's darling.
But I don't think that that that that title will
go away before the end of this year. And I
don't think as far as like the worst fan base
as it relates to me putting all those stats about
the Detroit Lions offensive line in their run game and
the success.
Speaker 2 (04:10):
Thing, I'm saying, that's it.
Speaker 1 (04:11):
I'm this is more a global commentary as opposed to,
you know, micro commentary. I'm more on a macro level.
Speaker 4 (04:18):
I don't think we have the best like hands down
the best running back or the best quarterback, or the
best defense, or the best receiver or the best tight end.
I will say that we have hands down the best
offensive line.
Speaker 3 (04:31):
And I had to.
Speaker 4 (04:32):
I had to take that swing, so I had to
swing like a Minnesota great Joe Mauer, and I did.
Speaker 3 (04:36):
For the fences.
Speaker 1 (04:38):
I first of all, he didn't hit a lot of
home runs. I don't want to be a part of anything.
Speaker 3 (04:41):
Didn't mean he's didn't swing for the fences.
Speaker 1 (04:43):
I don't want to be a part of anything you're
trying to do where you're trying to nice up to me.
Speaker 2 (04:47):
So I calm down, listen.
Speaker 1 (04:48):
I it's kind of it's funny you're right, because I
don't think I think you still are America's darling.
Speaker 2 (04:54):
Right.
Speaker 1 (04:54):
It's a lot like if you have an uncle who
ruins Thanksgiving every year, like your cousins and parents know
about it, but the rest of the world is like, man,
he's so great.
Speaker 2 (05:05):
I think he's really fun.
Speaker 1 (05:07):
And then but give it a year or two and
you're like, man, we really missed on Jerry. He's did
you hear what he did at the bar last night?
So it could it could be coming. Now, let me
give you this, Let me let me.
Speaker 2 (05:19):
Give you.
Speaker 1 (05:20):
And your team this credit because I said it. We
did a radio show last week. I did it solo
style with Jay as the on air producer. And my
big point was all these people who think that Dan
Campbell is an idiot for not playing his players in
the Niners game are wrong.
Speaker 3 (05:37):
I agree.
Speaker 1 (05:38):
I think in a vacuum with any other team they
were right. But with Dan Campbell, like you can't tell
everybody the sky is blue for three hundred days in
a row and then one day say sorry, it's raining. Sure,
it would have been such a hole in the damn
(05:58):
for him to acknowledge, like you guys are built on
pure toughness, on gamble on who cares? And I think
that thing resonated where he's like, I don't, we'll rest
after we win the.
Speaker 2 (06:08):
Division next week.
Speaker 1 (06:08):
Sure, and man oh man, they sure played like it
on Monday Night.
Speaker 4 (06:14):
Well, I will say that as far as Dan Campbell goes,
you know, first season wasn't great, but we did start
getting like some some excitement. He went from three wins
to nine wins, to twelve wins to now fifteen wins.
He is not afraid to go for it on fourth down,
which I know is something that you and I don't
necessarily agree on. And it's not that we don't agree.
(06:36):
The mentality of it though, like it's a lot of
people see it as foolish.
Speaker 3 (06:39):
I get it.
Speaker 1 (06:40):
I think the analytics people are a little out of
their mind. Analytics remove situation and circumstances, right, who's the
quarterback on the other team?
Speaker 3 (06:48):
Sure?
Speaker 1 (06:49):
What game are we in? What point in the game
are we in? If it's fourth and two and Patrick
Mahomes is on the other side and you're up five,
take the three, go to eight if you're up whatever, Like,
if you want to keep the ball away from him,
you're up seven. Whatever is happening on the other side
(07:10):
of the ball needs to play into your analytical decision.
But my issue with Dan as like a fan, is
how much of it is guttural? Yeah, and how there
is There isn't a science to it, because I think
there's a science to considering who's on the other side,
even though it's an inexact science.
Speaker 2 (07:28):
I just think he's like, Eh, let's go. I feel
like we're moving. I feel like we're moving. Zach.
Speaker 4 (07:34):
What he said since he got here was two reasons.
He wants to go for it on fourth down any will.
And I know it seems guttural, but there is some Uh.
I mean, I guess you could call it a method.
Speaker 2 (07:45):
Two reasons. One I'm angry. Two I'm angry he's.
Speaker 4 (07:50):
He's got that caffeine intake of his double VENTI lattes espresso.
I mean that guy's heck, guy's heart's gonna burst if
he wins the super Bowl because he's happy.
Speaker 3 (07:58):
And just caffeinated.
Speaker 4 (08:00):
I think though, the reason he goes for it on
fourth down, and he said it since he got here,
he wants his guys to think no one believes in
them like he does. And I think that you could
make the argument pretty easily that there's not a team
out there that believes their coach believes in them more
than the Lions. That Dan Campbell believes in the Lions.
And also, which is pretty interesting that he just recently
(08:22):
mentioned in an oppressor, is he doesn't want our team
to balk at a fourth down. You know, when you
normalize going for it on fourth down, those jitters, those nerves,
it's just another it's just another play.
Speaker 2 (08:34):
Now.
Speaker 4 (08:34):
I understand the other side of that, but I do
believe that there is some real logic behind his rationale
of going for it.
Speaker 2 (08:43):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (08:43):
I don't think it's Don't get me wrong. I think
he's incredible. Right, We've talked about on and off the air,
stop it. But I think he and one of the
things I truly enjoy about him is he's kind of
in an era where defensive and offensive coordinat are being hired,
and you know, like, we have one of the best
(09:03):
offensive minds in the league, and he does what he
does and he also manages a team. But Campbell's kind
of the old school throwback Danny Green style. I'm the sheriff.
I trust this guy with the offense. I trust this
guy with the defense, and I dig.
Speaker 3 (09:17):
That it's worked out pretty well for John Harbaugh.
Speaker 2 (09:19):
I think it's really, really, really cool.
Speaker 1 (09:23):
My larger issue is I just don't see and I'm
I'm not trying to talk or push on you here,
like you got the buy now. So it's three games,
three games to win the Super Bowl, and you are
likely going to have to face the Eagles, the Vikings,
(09:45):
the Rams. Those are the three that I think you
could wind up running into in your first two games.
But add those other teams in there, right, the Packers,
the Packers who have been very good.
Speaker 4 (09:55):
The Bucks beat us week two, and then the commander
is Jayden Daniels. Is just you don't know what's gonna
happen with that guy.
Speaker 1 (10:02):
With how top heavy the NFC is this year and
how many good teams there are in the AFC, there's
there's seven or eight legitimate teams that if you won
the Super Bowl, you go, yeah, maybe I thought another
team was more likely, But that doesn't surprise me at all. Sure, right,
like three weeks ago, if somebody would have told you
the Packers are going to win the Super Bowl, you'd
have gone, They're not my number one pick. But I
(10:23):
see how that happens. Yeah, Rams, I'd buy it right now.
And so that's not always the case. In the NFL playoffs,
you know, it's it's sometimes it's more of a one
dog or two dog race. I don't know why I
chose dogs instead of horses.
Speaker 3 (10:36):
But or lions.
Speaker 1 (10:38):
If you God hate it, Zach, if you to have
that mentality succeed three times against three elite teams in
a row, it is that is unique. That would be
it's just almost it's just hard to pull off, no
matter who you are, no matter how good your team is.
(10:59):
I think it's I think it's hard to pull off.
Speaker 4 (11:02):
Our mentality is certainly not the issue. I think we
have the mentality to be able to pull it off.
It comes down to, you know, can Aaron Glenn pull
out another defensive effort like he did, because that was
the best defensive game we've played since Aaron Glenn has
been here, and that's not even considering the injuries. I
will say that the NFC, as far as the Lions
fan goes, they all, especially the Packers and the Vikings,
(11:26):
wor so much tape. But there's just as much tape
for the Bucks and the Rams because we were their
last game last year and we played both of them
this year, so they have. Outside of the Commanders and
the Eagles, the four other teams in the NFC playoffs
have so much tape on us, Like it's easier for
teams to prepare this year because of how often our
(11:49):
teams have matched up.
Speaker 1 (11:51):
But you're saying that about it Aaron Glenn and the
defensive performance and what he did Sunday night, and I
agree with that.
Speaker 2 (11:56):
I think that's all accurate.
Speaker 1 (11:57):
But I did go into that game you and I
talked to saying fourth down is going to be the
decider of this game, and it still was. Even despite
all of that. You had three fourth downs that you
went for, one you got stopped, one you went for
got it touchdown the next play, the other one touchdown
on the fourth down play right, the Vikings went for
it twice on fourth down in the important times and
(12:20):
didn't get it. It was the difference maker. Even even
if the Vikings score those touchdowns, those two fourth downs
that you chose to go for, if you don't get them,
if you don't get one of them, it's literally half
the points.
Speaker 2 (12:32):
So you it's just the execution has to You.
Speaker 1 (12:37):
Have to have a run of three games where your
fourth down philosophy tilts in your favor three times in
a row. Because if you're playing the Ravens, the Chiefs,
the Bills, the Eagles, all these teams that you mentioned
had tape on you. I think against teams like that,
if it goes awry, especially like you said, if the
defense can't put up another performance like that, you're gonna
(13:00):
need to execute that plan the way you want to
or it could get really tough.
Speaker 4 (13:05):
Well, I mean, we did lose against the Bills, but
that fourth down mentality is what kept us in the
Bills because in that game our defense could not stop Buffalo.
So Dan Campbell was like, I know, this is fourth
in a little bit longer than normal, but we're going
for it because we need to keep this offense on
the field to go shot for shot with Josh Allen
and the Bills.
Speaker 3 (13:23):
I do think.
Speaker 4 (13:24):
I do think Dan Campbell has a much better handle
on it than a lot of people think. As far
as fourth down goes, I think he's a lot smarter
than people think given his given his you know, press
conferences and his sound bites and everything, Dan Campbell knows
what he's doing.
Speaker 2 (13:37):
See here's a question for you.
Speaker 1 (13:38):
Do you think if when he first got the job,
if he'd have been and this probably isn't a great
example because this guy got into some trouble for the
way he talked and treated people, But you know how
Gruden kind of had that intense like, you know, that
that kind of football personality that he projected out there.
Do you think if when Dan Campbell first came in,
(14:00):
had he not said the kneecaps thing, and had he
had he just pushed out kind of the intense you know,
football like. You know, he's joyous, sure, but if he'd
just seemed more competitive then he did silly like if
he hadn't done those kneecaps and if you guys hadn't
have been hard knocks that first year, do you think
he has any of the national detractors that he currently has.
Speaker 3 (14:22):
I don't know that he has.
Speaker 1 (14:24):
Here's what I'll say, and I wouldn't say detractors, but
I think there's a whole host of people waiting for
the way that he approaches the game to bite them
in the app Yeah.
Speaker 4 (14:32):
But those people are not in Detroit. Those people are
not the ones listening to him on the radio. They're
not listening to him on the radio. They're not listening
to him in his press conferences. You're only seeing the
soundbites that major outlets will pick up. One thing I
will say, Gruden never came off as like a nice guy.
I don't think Gruden had an affability to him. Now,
Dan Campbell he goes and he says these ridiculous things.
(14:53):
He says kneecaps, he wears a motto helmet, whatever. He
also stops press conferences to tell reporters, congratulations on your retirement.
You have been great for this city. Oh, I heard
about your wife. I'm so sorry to hear a bit.
Dan Campbell is the I would say, as far as
the media goes, I would say the media would consider
(15:14):
Dan Campbell one of the friendliest coaches in the league.
I don't think. I think he is one hundred percent
who he is and has been since he took the
press conference the first time.
Speaker 1 (15:22):
Yeah, I guess what I'm saying is, I'm not questioning that.
I'm in with you. I think it's I'm more fascinated
by this, the fourth down thing, the Campbell gamble, and
the national narrative.
Speaker 2 (15:31):
About who he is as a guy.
Speaker 1 (15:33):
Sure, and had those silly soundbites early and hard knocks
not happened, Because here's the thing.
Speaker 2 (15:41):
Campbell is getting a lot of.
Speaker 1 (15:42):
Love for the for the Coach of the Year award,
But do you think if those early moments wouldn't have
happened on whatever, do you think he would be consistently
mentioned because he's not. When they bring up the great
coaches in the league, they acknowledge him, but they don't go,
it's Tomlin, it's McVeigh, so Connell, it's Andy Reid, it's
Dan Campbell. He's kind of this separate category. We're like,
(16:04):
these are all great football coaches, and here's Dan Campbell,
who's also great.
Speaker 4 (16:07):
I think Dan Campbell has one of the toughest proofs
in the NFL. I think people have a hard time
getting over the name the Lions, like they've just historically
been so bad. They've historically had coaches that have had
success elsewhere and then they come here and it's, you know,
it is a dumpster fire. But I think a lot
of that goes into the fact that this is all
(16:30):
Brad Holmes and Dan Campbell are Sheila Ford's first hires. Now,
her first fire was Matt Patricia. She had that foresight.
But then she brought in these guys. She went and
found them. This is this is not her dad's team anymore.
This is not her mom's team who were running it
long before. This is her team and it's and it's very,
very different. And you could tell from Brad Holmes and
(16:50):
Dan Campbell's first press conferences this is like, these guys
are not and they weren't. They were not heralded hires,
like nobody. Dan Campbell was kind of always been, you know,
he's always been in the cycle, but no one took
him seriously. No one even knew who Brad Holmes was.
And I think Sheila knew what she wanted. She went on,
got it.
Speaker 2 (17:08):
Let's talk about the playoffs.
Speaker 1 (17:09):
Le's talk about my team. Yep, let's you know, you
guys get the one seed, we get.
Speaker 3 (17:14):
The five, which is ridiculous. They got to receive this thing.
Speaker 1 (17:17):
Let me ask you something that earlier Lions game this season.
I think everybody remembers that as a very close competitive game.
I think you guys really had a hold of that
game until the Ivan pace fumble. Like obviously it was
close enough that we could take the lead with that,
but I just really thought you guys all game long
were doing what you wanted to do, so it never
(17:40):
really felt like as a fan, I felt like we
were gonna have to score or hold the ball, or
we had to get the lead and keep you know,
it was one of those sort of games. So you guys,
what have you beaten us five times in a row?
Speaker 2 (17:51):
Now?
Speaker 3 (17:51):
Yep?
Speaker 2 (17:53):
So here's my question.
Speaker 1 (17:55):
You know, we get the Rams, You've got the Packers
at the Eagles, which I think we're all this is crazy.
Speaker 2 (18:01):
We're both rooting for the Packers, right Oh yea.
Speaker 4 (18:05):
I will say what I said to my family and
friends when the Packers were playing the Vikings, because it
would have just made last week's game not important. I go,
I'm not rooting. I can't say that I'm rooting for them.
I'm rooting for the Lions, and that like it's weird
to say you're rooting for the Packers.
Speaker 3 (18:22):
It's weird, you will, Yeah.
Speaker 2 (18:24):
I like the way you phrase it. I'm rooting for
the Eagles to lose.
Speaker 1 (18:26):
I'm rooting for the future matchups of my favorite team.
Speaker 2 (18:30):
So I think we both want that.
Speaker 1 (18:32):
But knowing that you have so many options that could
walk through your door, you essentially have three options, right,
you could get the Vikings. I believe you could get
the Commanders, or you could get the Packers. Right, there's
no situation where you can wind up against the two
or the three seed. It just doesn't work like that math.
(18:52):
You know the way they do settings up right? Do
you want to see the Vikings again? Do you want
to see the Packers? Are you hoping the Commanders get through?
What are you looking for on opening weekend? And then
I'll tell you where I'm going with my team.
Speaker 4 (19:04):
The best game for the Lions, the most entertaining game
would be the Packers or the Vikings. And I would
say I would give a slight edge to the most
entertaining game being to the Vikings because the first game
was close, this last game had so much on the line.
Speaker 1 (19:21):
I don't care about entertaining Zach. I want to know
who you're scared of. What do you not want to
have happen?
Speaker 4 (19:28):
I guess the most the team I'm most scared of
is the Vikings. I would give them the slight edge
over the Packers too.
Speaker 1 (19:33):
Thank you for doing that on my Viking Show. You're
absolutely correct, though. I always think it's hard to beat
a team three times in a season. I don't think
you want to give a team another shot, and I
think I think what happened on Sunday night was, you know,
brilliantly game planned game. But it's not like you're going
to surprise anybody without a second.
Speaker 3 (19:51):
Time, especially two weeks apart.
Speaker 1 (19:53):
Yes, that's just generally, generally not how it works. I
think the big question is how do the vi Kings
bounce back? How do they recoup? You said something after
the last game is you guys play such a physical,
punch you in the mouth sort of football that to
not only get over the emotional hump of losing such
a big game, you have to get over the physical hump,
(20:15):
and then you're gonna have to go play this really
good team with this really.
Speaker 2 (20:18):
Good coach ye and now they do.
Speaker 1 (20:21):
Last time, you know, we didn't know they were gonna
have all their weapons kind of un tell moment of
this time, we know they have everything. They're one of
the hottest teams in football. I think this is truly
truly a monstrous task. Oh yeah, for Kevin O'Connell and
Sam Darnold specifically, those guys who you know are gonna
(20:42):
look to rebound, man if they can, and if they do,
it'll be a major feather in the cap because this
is gonna be no joke against that young defense.
Speaker 3 (20:50):
I mean, Koc comes from the McVeigh tree.
Speaker 2 (20:53):
Does any yep O coordinator won a Super Bowl there?
Speaker 4 (20:56):
So I would love I mean, the storyline of it,
the branch cutting down the stuf, you know, I think
I think that's I think that I guess it would
be the branch cutting down the trunk and not the stump.
I guess if KOC wins, then McVeigh would be left
as a stump of himself.
Speaker 3 (21:11):
But I digress.
Speaker 4 (21:13):
I would like to see. I would like to see.
I would like to see. Okay, I mean, you heard
what Dan Campbell said after the game. He's like, I'll
see in two weeks so it seems. I don't know
if it's a red herring. Dan Campbell is, you know,
sly like a fox, but he seems to them. Yeah,
the Vikings are coming back.
Speaker 1 (21:30):
I just get a really great coach and a really
great quarterback and a really great wide receiver.
Speaker 3 (21:35):
And Kyron Williams is a very good running back.
Speaker 1 (21:37):
He's running the ball very well. They're they're just a
very good football team. I think who you thought you
might wind up against four or five six weeks ago
as the five seed, it has not played out like
that in any way, shape or form, And you're getting
a lot more different.
Speaker 2 (21:53):
And you're on the road.
Speaker 3 (21:54):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (21:54):
Right, well here's what I'm hoping. I'm hoping that was like,
you know, you make a little snow the top of
a mountain, right, you roll it a little bit. All
of a sudden it's a little bigger, and you think
and it slips out of your hand. Like I just think,
there was so much that went into Sunday Night to
(22:16):
make Sunday Night what it was, and that thirty one
to nine doesn't reflect the game. It just absolutely does not.
I mean you're sitting there, I think as a guy
who doesn't know the x's and o's of football, But
you're sitting there thinking if the Vikings had executed on
you know, two of their red zone trips and turned
them into touchdowns, right.
Speaker 3 (22:35):
Yeah, that was bananas.
Speaker 4 (22:36):
I mean the statistically what happened for you guys in
the red zone is an anomaly.
Speaker 1 (22:40):
That was why pretty pretty unique, and I think you
could have wound up with two three touchdowns early and
a pretty significant lead a league going into halftime, a
touchdown coming. Some of these things that we've seen over
and over and over, right, So do do I sit
here and do I think what I've seen all season?
I'm not saying that the offense has been the epito
me of excellence, but they've been more consistent than that.
(23:03):
Am I gonna buy seventeen weeks of that? Or am
I gonna buy this one game? And my hope is like,
I just don't think with the sort of coach Kevin
O'Connell is and the sort of relationship he has with
Sam and just the way our team works right in
from a confidence standpoint, to me, I don't know whether
(23:24):
or not they win in this game, but I don't
think they come out shaken shook from what happened on
Sunday night.
Speaker 4 (23:31):
I don't think they come out shook at all. I
think they come out with a fire lit under their rumpus.
You've got competitors on your team. I mean, justin Jefferson
is he was irritated last game, so I think he's
coming out to show I am Jay Jetta's Jordan Addison,
I think is the same situation. He's like, I did
not get my I did not get my meal last week,
(23:54):
like he just it wasn't there Aaron Jones hell of
a competitor. And then your defense, I mean, Brian Floors
aside your edge rushers, Oh my god, Harrison Smith's still
playing at a very high level. I mean it was
I don't yeah, I don't think this is just some
chalk it up to wor shown.
Speaker 1 (24:10):
And and I kind of I want the one seed, right,
that's I'm angry that you have the one seed. I'd
rather have the one seed. But this team thrived all
year long on like they never got the love, they
never got the respect, right.
Speaker 4 (24:23):
The only thing that Vikings did the Vikings were I mean,
it seemed like nationally everybody was picking the Vikings this
past week, whereas the entire season, no one was believing in.
Speaker 2 (24:32):
The Vikings literally all year long.
Speaker 4 (24:34):
Yeah, they liked to they like to overcome the adversity.
It was an unusual situation last week where you guys
were so favored by so many people.
Speaker 2 (24:43):
So, yeah, that's exactly what I'm saying.
Speaker 1 (24:45):
All year long, no matter what we did, there were
teams with worst records and teams we beat, like the
Packers in front of us in the you know, power rankings.
Whether those matter or not, they reflect national outlets opinions. Right,
So all you have that all year and then all
of a sudden, the moment they beat the Packers, everybody's like, oh,
(25:06):
this is so like my hope is you have no choice,
but you know, let's return to that mentality.
Speaker 2 (25:13):
I think.
Speaker 1 (25:13):
I think I think the team will find a home
in that mentality. They might not be at home, but
they will find people questioning them to be more of
a home than than you would expect. I think with Darnold.
Speaker 3 (25:29):
That was beautiful.
Speaker 4 (25:30):
I think that the needle point and put that in
a needle point and hang it somewhere. That was just
thank you, I know what you're doing. Thank you, kind
of like Ben Johnson's offense, No.
Speaker 2 (25:38):
Thank you, So yeah, I mean, I think the the the.
Speaker 1 (25:43):
Puka thing is a little scary. You're all, you're always
so you're always a little scared of Matthew Stafford and Pooka.
Let's let me ask you this. Let me ask a
question about you. Is there any you guys going to
the Super Bowl? Do you get caught up in any
romanticism aspect of it? Like? And let me tell you
what I mean by that. So let's pretend the Rams
(26:05):
were playing somebody else. Let's pretend they'd won that game,
and we're heading to Tampa right now. So Rams, whatever
they win, you know, they go play Philadelphia, they beat Philadelphia,
you win your next game in this universe. I don't
know why I had to let them not beat the
Vikings because in this universe the Vikings aren't in the
NFC Championship game anyways, But I just refuse to let
(26:27):
them be in a matchup against us in this fiction.
Speaker 3 (26:29):
Thatials where your heart is even in a hypothetical.
Speaker 1 (26:32):
So let's say it's an NFC Championship game and the
Rams are coming to your building, is there anything romantic
about that?
Speaker 2 (26:40):
Like?
Speaker 1 (26:40):
For you guys, to get to your first Super Bowl.
It would mean so much to beat matt Stafford and
to beat the Rams, and or would you or is
there more fear? Like oh my god, I don't want
to be the team that I know how the Viking
fan base would handle it. They're like, oh no, the
guy that we got rid of can now ruin our
(27:01):
best season in franchise history.
Speaker 4 (27:03):
I am not afraid of Matthew Stafford. And I also
do not feel as though there is any romanticism in it, because,
I mean, we played him in the playoffs last year,
we beat him, We played them early this year, we
beat him. Obviously, I don't want to, you know, you
never want to lose, especially to a guy that you
had for so long. But on the flip side of that,
(27:24):
they've lost twice now to a guy they just were
dying to give away in Jared Goff. So I don't
think there's any romanticism. I think the only romanticism of
it is that the Lions have never been to a
Super Bowl. We've only been to, I mean, less than
a handful of NFC championships. It's just a matter of
it's just a matter of getting there and winning. I
(27:45):
don't think it matters who it's against. I don't think
it matters how it's done.
Speaker 2 (27:49):
Yeah you don't.
Speaker 1 (27:50):
You're not haunted like the Viking fan bases, where they go, Man,
what if we beat the Falcons in the first round
and we beat the Saints in the second round and
this path that, like you know, exercises all your your
football demons.
Speaker 3 (28:05):
No, man, just as Nike says, just do it. Just
get that dub I just I hate that too.
Speaker 4 (28:12):
I don't like it either, but I don't feel good
about it. But it's what came to my mind, and
I trust my instincts, much like Dan Campbell on Fourth Town.
Speaker 2 (28:18):
Very much like Dan Campbell in that way.
Speaker 1 (28:20):
It's also interesting how your perspective can shift in a season.
I'm so jacked for the playoffs in a season that
I didn't. I was telling everybody like, hey, if we
want a bunch of games, great, If not great, we're
heading the right direction.
Speaker 2 (28:33):
Yep. And now you look at it as this major
building point for the future.
Speaker 1 (28:37):
I think it's gonna be Do you have any I
know you don't because I know your mentality as a human,
but I still am gonna ask the question, do you
have any like, maybe this is the year Ben Johnson
takes a job. Maybe next year is the year that
Jared Goff's contract starts to affect the roster. Maybe like
maybe maybe maybe maybe do like all these things that
have made this is inarguably, right the greatest year in
(29:00):
franchise history.
Speaker 2 (29:01):
Yeah, wouldn't you say.
Speaker 3 (29:03):
A shadow of it out?
Speaker 1 (29:04):
Is there any part of your brain that thinks we
have to strike now we had, like I don't want
to wait and see if we can strike again the
next two years? There's like this is a Because you
watch old NFL films, the thing you hear the most
is you know, I got there and I thought I
would I thought this is just the start, and that's just.
Speaker 2 (29:24):
Not how it works.
Speaker 1 (29:25):
Or do you are you tricked by the Patriots Chiefs
universe where you think you can just be relevant for
a really, really long time.
Speaker 3 (29:36):
Well I think that.
Speaker 4 (29:37):
You know, when you mentioned the Patriots and the Chiefs,
what it comes down to is the one thing that
they kept.
Speaker 3 (29:42):
Well, I guess with the Chiefs it was you.
Speaker 4 (29:44):
Know, Andy Reid and their players. It was until Tom
Brady left, it was Bill Belichick and their players. Now
I would be lying if I said, I wasn't worried
about Ben Johnson and Aaron Glenn leaving because what you
alluded to earlier, Dan Campbell's the sheriff.
Speaker 3 (30:00):
This guy am I right, I trust this guy on
my left. Let's go, let's go fight.
Speaker 4 (30:04):
But I do think that there are I do think
Dan Campbell and Brad Holmes have an ability to scout
motivators and good coaches the same way that they do players.
I have to brace myself for the fact that I mean,
if you, if you know, gun to my head, I
(30:25):
would say Aaron Glenn has a better chance of taking
a head coaching job than Ben Johnson does. And that's
not to say that I don't think Ben Johnson is
a surefire. You know, gone, He's going to be very
particular about the jobs that he takes. I mean that's
been publicized out there and everything. But I do think
that there are candidates in house that would be good.
And I do think that there are candidates available, especially
on the defensive side of the ball, to you know,
(30:47):
come in and do what Dan Campbell does. I mean,
Dan Campbell's going to bring in guys that reflect his mentality.
Speaker 3 (30:53):
That's just how it is.
Speaker 1 (30:54):
I've been thinking about Ben Johnson a lot, and we're
both comedians, and as a comedian, when you're starting, you
think of yourself as like, and I don't know how
you thought of it. I'm an egomaniac, but I want
to have my own TV show. I want to be there,
you know, you want to be as big as you can.
You want to do the theater tour. And then you
(31:16):
think about what people used to say about Brian Reagan
and still say, is you know, Brian Reagan's one of
the best comedians to ever live.
Speaker 3 (31:24):
Yep.
Speaker 1 (31:24):
He's immensely well known, but he can just go do
a show, go have dinner, and walk back to the
hotel and no one bothers him.
Speaker 3 (31:33):
Yep, and yep.
Speaker 1 (31:35):
I think about my ego. Would always want to be
a head coach. I always want to be.
Speaker 2 (31:40):
In charge, YadA, YadA, YadA.
Speaker 1 (31:42):
But if you're Ben Johnson and you truly do like
calling plays, which, by the way, I think people forget
and I think this is.
Speaker 2 (31:49):
Evidenced he's creative, man. I think this is evidenced with
the Dan Campbell thing.
Speaker 1 (31:53):
I think because we're so used to coordinators getting jobs,
you forget that a head coach is an entirely different
skill set. Absolutely, Kevin O'Connell is such a unique and
Andy Reid is also, Mike Tomlin is also there's they're
unique combinations of guys who call their side of the
ball and run their side of the ball and can
(32:15):
also run the organization and all the things that need
Like that's they're two. It's like auditioning and acting.
Speaker 2 (32:21):
They're not. They don't. They're very different.
Speaker 1 (32:23):
They people from the outside might go, well, that's coaching,
but from the inside, they're very You're like dealing with flights,
you're dealing with all these you're kind of like in
a different universe managing an entire building of people, you know,
or a team of people. Like if you're Ben Johnson
and you're not gonna like the way I'm thinking about.
Speaker 3 (32:43):
This, Oh don't worry. I'm ready to rephrase.
Speaker 1 (32:45):
But let's say you go and you win a Super
Bowl or you do really well this year. Is there
a universe where you go, Okay, I'm gonna let my
contract run out here, I'm gonna let the Lions bit
on me. But guess what, I don't want to be
a head coach now. I want to be paid the
best assistant coach in the NFL buy a significant amount,
and I'm a hired gun.
Speaker 2 (33:05):
Every everybody in the league.
Speaker 1 (33:08):
I'm open, Come pitch me, Come you want me to
come and run your offense? Like what an interesting thing
to not have the pressure of an organization and all
it's like all your job is to hand pick because
you can tell me outside of the guys who run
their own offense, you think there's any team in the
league right now that if Ben Johnson was like, I'm
(33:30):
leaving the Lions and I'd like to I'd like to
offensively coordinate somewhere else that he wouldn't have suitors lining
out the door, impressive quarterbacks and weapons running out the door,
even even some of the really impressive ones. You don't
think Zach Taylor in Cincinnati would go, hey, why don't
you come down here and run bro So it's never
gonna have Zach.
Speaker 4 (33:50):
Taylor tried to poach Ben Johnson when he was the
tight ends coach. I mean he went after him.
Speaker 1 (33:55):
I don't think ever in a million years, I don't
think you get to be an offensive coordinator with the
sort of drive it takes to be a head coach,
right because that's a hard path. But man, he could
really walk an interesting path if he wanted to.
Speaker 4 (34:09):
I'll tell you we talk about Jared Goss contract and
all that. The head coaches contract, any of the staff's
contract does not affect the salary cap whatsoever. There is
not a world where we continue on the trajectory putting
up the points that we have the past year, where
she La Ford would let Ben Johnson leave to go
(34:30):
coordinate another offense. She would, she would pay him, she would,
she would do what the Lions did with brock Wright
in San Francisco. They she would match and rays.
Speaker 1 (34:39):
I'm not saying whether she would do that. I'm saying, like,
if I'm Ben Johnson and I go, that's great, that's great.
But before I commit to Jared, go like, I need
to see what the organization and what the talent. Because
here's the other thing about the Detroit Lions. They have
one of the two best offensive lines in all of football.
Speaker 3 (34:59):
They have well, yeah, one of the two, the top
of the two, but yeah, go ahead.
Speaker 1 (35:02):
So they have one of the two top offensive lines
in the NFL.
Speaker 2 (35:05):
They have elite, an elite.
Speaker 1 (35:09):
Running back, they have an incredible receiver, they have they
have a fantastic young titand like they have all these
pieces and we don't know what those pieces are gonna
look like in three years, right Like Cincinnati's gone through
that right now. A few years ago it was Joe Mixon,
Tyler boyd uh T Higgins, Jamar Chase, Joey Burrow, all
this stuff, and all of a sudden, now it's they
(35:31):
haven't paid Chase, they haven't paid Higgins. Higgins has probably gone,
Joe Mixon has been gone for a year, Chase Brown
doesn't really fit.
Speaker 2 (35:37):
They had Giseki in this year, you know. It's so.
Speaker 1 (35:43):
What I'm saying is whether or not the dollar figure
would keep you there, Like if you're that good and
you're like, because everybody like I can't tell. With the
way people talk about him nationally, it's half the stories
is he's going to be really really picky, and half
the stories are are he's not sure he.
Speaker 2 (36:02):
Wants to do all the head coach stuff.
Speaker 3 (36:04):
YEP.
Speaker 1 (36:05):
So in that case, I'm saying, like, do you step
back in when your contract runs out and you go,
what's the best situation and you just go become the
literally a Hall of Fame coordinator.
Speaker 2 (36:15):
The greatest coordinator in NFL history.
Speaker 4 (36:18):
You know, going back to you know what we talked
about with the press conference in Dan Campbell, and the
national media doesn't see or hear the things that they
don't want to sound. Clip Ben Johnson's press conferences. He's
wildly loyal to Dan Campbell. He is wildly loyal to
the city of Detroit. And the only reason I could
(36:40):
see him.
Speaker 1 (36:42):
In the history of football keep going, or basketball or soccer,
I would say, any other sports.
Speaker 2 (36:47):
Hockey, I would say.
Speaker 4 (36:49):
The only reason that in your scenario that Ben Johnson
would leave the Detroit Lions and the you know, the
quarterback that he has built his offense around, the two
running backs, the two receivers, the tight end, the offensive line,
like ever, all the pieces you have, is to prove that,
in fact, he is the greatest coordinator of all time
and go and take on a real project like a
(37:12):
like a like a Raiders right now, or you know,
I can't even say New England. Who's the worst offense
in the league right now?
Speaker 2 (37:19):
Jacksonville Jaguars. I don't know. I'm not a big stat.
Speaker 4 (37:22):
I mean, that's a nice situation though, because of Trevor
Lawrence and you know Travis Atan's not bad. Tank Bigsby
played well.
Speaker 1 (37:27):
I don't think you're going to I don't agree with that.
I think you're going I think you want to go
and prove.
Speaker 3 (37:32):
You don't know him. Sigh, you don't know him.
Speaker 1 (37:36):
Let's talk about the AFC really quick, and then I'm
gonna and then I want your prediction for what happens
this week.
Speaker 2 (37:42):
Okay, So you have the AFC, we have Chiefs.
Speaker 1 (37:48):
Get the one seed Bill's Broncos, which Sean McDermott has
an incredible record against rookie quarterbacks that's gonna be tested
against Bonnicks.
Speaker 3 (37:57):
Their defense is so good. Denver's defense is incredible.
Speaker 1 (38:00):
Yeah, I'm not as big of a bon Knicks guy
as I think bo Nicks might. He might end up
being a Hall of Famer, But like bo Nicks has
a lot of really great first halves and a lot
of okay second halves. And to me, that says Sean
Payton is an awesome coach, he is scripting, he is helping,
and then we.
Speaker 2 (38:17):
Go from there. But Sean McDermott historically and that defense
is really good.
Speaker 1 (38:21):
So you got you got the Bills there, You've got
the Ravens Steelers, which the Steelers do. As I detour
on each of these, I just wanted to read the
three and then have you tell me which team was
the most likely upset pick. But this thing in Pittsburgh
where all these fans, I have so many Pittsburgh friend fans,
fan friends, Pittsburgh fan friends who keep They're like, they
want to get rid of Tomlin. They're like, it's time
(38:43):
we need a culture shift, dude, bro right from fan
bases who haven't had great coaches forever.
Speaker 2 (38:50):
We have him now, but we haven't had it forever.
Speaker 1 (38:52):
They're like, well, we're never gonna be bad enough to
get a pick, and we're never good. You're like, dude,
figure out your personal do something anything other than getting
rid of Mike Tomlin.
Speaker 4 (39:02):
That's such a spoiled mentality to say we're never going
to be bad enough to get a pick. You mean
you're content every year that he's been there, you've won,
you've had hope, you've had a legitimate reason to believe
that you could go and make some noise. And you're like, oh,
that's ridiculous, that's such a that's such a spoiled fan base.
Speaker 1 (39:23):
I couldn't agree more so. Then you got the Texans
the Chargers. So of those matchups, do you have any
do you have any of those teams that you think
should be on upset Watch? And I mean, I don't
know if you can call the Texans a major upset
to the Chargers, But do you have any team that
others wouldn't suspect making or run.
Speaker 4 (39:44):
I think the Chargers take down the Texans. I think
I think the Steelers. I think the Steelers could take
down the Rave That would be my AFC upset. That
would be my AFC.
Speaker 1 (39:56):
I got to tell you, if that happens, that would
be off of four or five straight losses.
Speaker 4 (40:00):
Yeah, that would be That would be another testament to
Mike Tomlin and against all of those Pittsburgh fans. And
if there's a coach that can do it, it's him.
Speaker 2 (40:06):
Now.
Speaker 1 (40:06):
They haven't won a playoff game in like eight years,
that's true. And I will tell you if the Steelers
win that game, if they go into their division rival,
division champ Raven's house, after everybody's screaming the Lamar MVP argument,
after they have all these like they're whatever whatever in Dvoa,
(40:26):
Lamar has the second greatest passer rating you know, in
NFL history, and they go in and beat him round one.
Who that lamar noise is gonna get really, really loud. Now,
I love a Chargers run.
Speaker 3 (40:40):
I mean, they've they've gone through some pain over the years.
Speaker 2 (40:43):
I like.
Speaker 1 (40:44):
I think Jim Harbaugh is such a uniquely impressive coach
in the way that I don't know, maybe he wears
people out, but the first couple of years, man, he's gangbusters, sure.
Speaker 2 (40:53):
And Justin Herbert.
Speaker 1 (40:55):
Is playing so efficiently. He's throwing the ball so much
less this year and playing at a efficient clip throwing
the ball.
Speaker 4 (41:01):
So much less, but his receivers are still regularly going
over one hundred and fifty yards. Like, you're absolutely right.
The efficiency is off the charts. And Justin Herbert is
a different quarterback than Jaj McCarthy was in at Michigan.
Speaker 3 (41:12):
So like to see that.
Speaker 4 (41:14):
Arm talent all of a sudden, and the things that
the play the way the playbook opens up for Justin
Herbert as opposed to you know, a run first, let's
jam it down your throat offense has been pretty impressive
and he hasn't straight too far away from that.
Speaker 1 (41:25):
Yeah, So I I think it's unlikely. But if you
are making me pick a an unlikely run to the
super Bowl or to a championship game, it's the Chargers.
I should keep your eye on the Chargers. I just
think he's battle tested. I think he's been there. It's
it's kind of like, you know, if you're the Chicago Bears, right,
or if you're the Jets. You know, I saw somebody
(41:47):
talking about this, like all the candidates they're considering, don't
you want a culture don't you want to proven commodity
culture shifter like Mike Rabel, Like they're chasing a lot
of assistance, but like that's what they got in Uh,
that is what they got in.
Speaker 2 (42:04):
Harbaugh in La.
Speaker 1 (42:06):
He came in and he's like, no, no, no, no, no,
we do all this this way now. And he's just
he's just been there and seen so many things. So
I think that could be really interesting. All right, here's
the deal. I'm gonna let you pick a couple of
games that matter. Okay, first, at first, I want what
do you think is gonna happen in the Eagles Packers game?
Speaker 2 (42:26):
You think the Packers got any shot?
Speaker 3 (42:27):
I mean, the Packers have a shot.
Speaker 4 (42:28):
I do think that the Eagles have the second best
offensive line in the league and the best running back
in the league.
Speaker 3 (42:35):
I not to mention, I mean, I think I think
the Eagles win that.
Speaker 2 (42:38):
So I the only thing I would say is.
Speaker 1 (42:44):
The Packers have such a good defensive line, a front
four generally.
Speaker 2 (42:48):
Now, did the Vikings.
Speaker 1 (42:49):
Handle them well, they sure did, But they have such
a good front four that that is that is the
way you have to you have to compete with.
Speaker 4 (42:59):
They're not playing Jared Goff or Sam Darnold. They're playing
Jalen Hurts, who can move.
Speaker 1 (43:04):
I understand, but I also think he's you know, he's
had an up and down year. He's also still in
concussion protocol. Yeah, we'll see what happens when the show
comes out, but that's where he is right now. Uh.
But I think in order to beat the Egos, you
gotta get pressure, and that's really hard to do against
that line. They have a really good front four, and
(43:25):
they win. They blitz with Halfley. It's effective. I think
it's unlikely, but I'd like it. Okay, So next up,
let's do Commander's Buccaneers.
Speaker 4 (43:34):
Oh God, I'd love to see the Commanders win. But
I also I would also love you.
Speaker 2 (43:39):
The team you're most worried about is the Buccaneers.
Speaker 1 (43:42):
No, I think if you really had to think about it,
they're scoring like forty points a game. They're going nuts.
They've been a thorn in your side. I think I
was a Lions fan, I would want them out immediately.
Speaker 4 (43:55):
I think ideally as a Lions fan, I can see
where you're coming from. I think as the team of
the line, I think two teams that they want another
crack at are the Bucks and the Bills. I bet
you I can see them wanting to play the Bucks
just before they have to play the Bills and win
out against the teams that beat us and go feeling like,
I mean, we beat everybody.
Speaker 2 (44:16):
Listen to me.
Speaker 1 (44:16):
I think that's great and really cute. You do not
want the Bills. You don't want the Bills. You don't
of all the teams. If I'm picking the one team
that I don't think the Lions should play against, it's
the Buffalo Bills.
Speaker 3 (44:32):
We lost by three with no defense.
Speaker 1 (44:34):
They are a horrific matchup for you. It's gonna be
Josh Allen. I think he's so good. He's so good,
but he's so much better than people even think because
they're used to watching him outdoors in Buffalo. He is
just like you literally are gonna have to perfectly outscore.
Speaker 2 (44:53):
Him if your two teams play market.
Speaker 1 (44:55):
And I know and I know that's something that you
fantasize and want. I'm just saying I I think you'd
be better off seeing the Chiefs, even though Mahomes and
Reid are all time.
Speaker 3 (45:05):
It would be better off seeing the Broncos well, sure.
Speaker 2 (45:09):
Sure rams hosting the Vikings.
Speaker 3 (45:13):
I think the Vikings take that.
Speaker 1 (45:15):
Yeah, Jay, dump it. I don't want him jinxing us.
I wanted the hatred. I want you to come for us,
and then I want us to prove you wrong.
Speaker 4 (45:23):
Listen, there is nothing that will ever make me fine.
I went through everything with the Lions. I went through
h to sixteen. I went through heartbreak, I went through
terrible coaches. I went through busts of draft picks. I
went through all of it. I will never ever have
anyone close to my love for the Detroit Lions. But
(45:45):
with all that you guys have done, and you know
you guys are constantly having me on, the Vikings are
my second favorite team just because of the goodwill you
put out there.
Speaker 1 (45:53):
I just I just accept it, exactly, accept exactly what
you're doing.
Speaker 4 (45:58):
I know, Oh my god, you're like the Grinch when
his heart grew three sizes. You're so full of joy
and life.
Speaker 1 (46:04):
I AI what you're doing. I know exactly what you're doing.
You and your second best offensive line in the league.
Speaker 2 (46:13):
That's gonna do.
Speaker 3 (46:14):
It for us, post the start, post the stats.
Speaker 1 (46:17):
That's gonna do it for us on the tailgate this week.
Thank you so much to Zach Martine for joining the
show as always.
Speaker 2 (46:26):
Thank you, buddy, and thank you guys.
Speaker 1 (46:28):
For listening to our podcast feed. Hey, well you're here,
go give us a review, give us five stars. It
actually helps us out a lot in the elgo rhythm. Finally,
a huge shout out to Ticketmaster, the official ticket marketplace
of the Minnesota Vikings, for helping make this show happen.
And hey, we're gonna keep kicking out Vikings tailgate shows
throughout their playoff run, and we'll do some in the offseason.
(46:51):
So stick around, stay tuned, keep checking us out.
Speaker 2 (46:54):
We'll see you guys soon. Have a great week, everybody,
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