April 4, 2025 • 24 mins
Saints legend Jon Stinchcomb joins Erin Summers to talk about the offensive line prospects in the 2025 NFL Draft and what he looks for in tackles and guards.
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Speaker 1 (00:05):
Welcome in to the New Orleans Saints Podcast, present a
buy Seacake. You'll hear from players, coaches, broadcasters and writers
that cover the NFL on a daily basis. The New
Orleans Saints Podcast starts right now. Here's your host, Aaron Summers.
Speaker 2 (00:27):
We're back on the New Orleans Saints Podcast, building towards
the NFL Draft April twenty fourth through twenty six and
for those that need a refresher on the free agency
and roster moves the Saints already have made, you can
tune into our free agency recap show on New Orleans
Saints dot com and on the Gulf Coast Sports and
Entertainment Network with myself and John de Chaser. For today's podcast,
(00:48):
it's all about the big guys upfront offensive lineman and
for a breakdown of this year's prospects, let's bring in
Saints legend John stinchcom. John, thanks for joining me on
the New Orleans Saints Podcast. It's it's good to talk
to you at this point of the year. Usually it's
around the start of the Saints season, but man, we're
early on in things, getting ready for the draft. How
(01:09):
are you?
Speaker 3 (01:10):
I'm great and it is an exciting time of the year.
I think there's a hope springs eternal for every team.
So you start off with a clean slate and get
to add some fun pieces, and with the draft coming up,
that's exciting for everybody.
Speaker 2 (01:23):
I don't know if offensive linemen really get the people
going no events, but the Saints definitely.
Speaker 3 (01:30):
Well hold on, what do you mean, go with fence, Aaron,
That's like, with all due respect, and then you just
take whatever shot you want. Okay, I'm sorry, we don't
get people fired up. I got it.
Speaker 2 (01:39):
Hey, you were a great one and we appreciate you.
Last year, though, the Saints did knock one out of
the park with Talisa Fluaga and their first pick of
the draft. Last year, there was six tackles that went
in the first round, so it was definitely a popular pick.
This year, how many you think are going It'll be interesting.
Speaker 3 (02:00):
I think you look at it and there is a
separation between the top talent that you deserves those early consideration,
let's call it. But I also think this, I think
there's you know, with the Saints having a top ten pick,
there's really, in my opinion, only four position groups that
(02:21):
are worthy of that sort of investment on the offensive
side of the all obviously quarterback and then offensive tackle.
I think those are difference makers. And then defensively, you're
looking at it and you either want to get a
lockdown corner like we've been able to find in years past,
or somebody who can pressure the quarterbacks on an edge rusher. So,
(02:44):
in my opinion, those are kind of the four positions
that are deserving of that top ten consideration. And I
think there's a number of players that could help not
only the Saints team, but any team. And when you
have that top ten pick, you want it to be
an impact on your organization for years and years to come.
Speaker 2 (03:06):
When you're looking at offensive linemen and the prospects, what
are some of the things that you're keyed in on
when you're what And I'm sure it varies by position
on the line as well.
Speaker 3 (03:19):
Yeah, absolutely so tackle specifically. I mean, you want somebody
that can do both, that is athletic enough to where
you're not worried about facing some of the you know,
these speed demons coming off the edge. You're going to
face the Mica Parsons of the world, and the Boss
and the Watts, and so you need somebody who can move.
And then the way the direction this game has moved,
(03:42):
it's you've got to be able to run the ball now.
So somebody who can, who can generate that power, create
something some of that vertical separation that you see, and
operate in space. That's not an easy combo to find
in players, especially somebody that's ready made and can jump
right in. And like you said, I think you hit
(04:03):
a home run last year and finding for Waga. Who
fits that bill. He's athletic enough, and you saw the
development of him and his game throughout the season of Yes,
he can move, he's super athletic, and you also saw
the power that he generates. So that's the type player
that you're looking for when you're trying to draft someone,
(04:23):
not only in the first round, but I think there's
an even higher bar to clear when you're looking at
a top ten pick.
Speaker 2 (04:29):
Okay, So with Will Campbell at the combine and the
whole scrupancy around his arm length, how big of a
deal is that?
Speaker 3 (04:38):
Yeah, I think it's laughable. I mean there's guys in
the past who're worried about their hand size and all
these things, and turn on the film. Can he player?
Can he not, And Will's played in the SEC for
a number of years now against the very best. The
same guys that he's going to face were similar at
this next level and did so in a very respect manner.
(05:00):
So am I worried that, you know, it's half an
inch shorter than others, No, I'm not. I think you
watch him play and you see his athleticism and it
jumps out off the film, and I'm sure at the
State of Louisiana would be thrilled to keep one of
their own right there in the backyard. So I'm sure
(05:22):
there's internal pressures just to at least consider walking down
that path.
Speaker 2 (05:26):
He stepped on campus there and won the starting job
at left tackle as a true freshman, played three years
there and did very well. I was looking at some
of the analysis of his game and someone said that
he's not a dominant destroyer at point of attack. Can
you explain exactly what that means?
Speaker 3 (05:46):
Yeah, so he's not one of those physical malers. I
think Makai Beckton when he was coming out, the guy
was three seventy five. So you turn on his film
and he's truly mashing people, and that's not Will game.
Will's athletick. He moves really well. You see him stay
in position in pass protection, and you know that's more
(06:09):
his game. He's not one of those guys that once
he gets his hands on you, he's just going to
run you twelve yards and dump folks. So I don't
know if that's a necessity, if that's what you're looking for,
if that's the type offense that you plan on running,
he's probably not your guy. But he's a very capable
run blocker. You see him sustained blocks, you see him
(06:30):
get in the right position and run his feet, And
although you don't see that drive from Malers that fit
that bill. I think he offers that balance that folks
are looking for in the ability to be successful in
both pass protection and the run game. So not the
Maller type. That's that's not his mo and for most systems,
(06:54):
it doesn't need to.
Speaker 2 (06:55):
Be on the left side in general.
Speaker 3 (06:58):
Well, I mean that's where we've seeing him most recently.
I think you look at his player profile and probably
projects best at left tackle. In my opinion, I'm biased.
Aaron I spent most of my time in the NFL
at right tackle, but I think because of the way
the game has evolved. There's equal ask whether it's left
(07:20):
side or right side. It used to be you know,
your right side is your more powerful player. Your right
tackle and your left tackles you're more athletic. Blind side
of the quarterback I think that's the biggest misused term
in all of sports, if I'm going to be candid
with you, because the backside of a quarterback is away
from where he's looking, so you know, it's usually to
(07:43):
the to the strength of the field, the strength of
the formation, that the wide side of the field. So
if you're on the left hash, guess where the eyes
of the quarterback are. You're to his right, So that
makes it the left tackle. Guess what. We don't just
play on the left hash anymore. You know, it's you
go to that right hash. You're looking over to the
left side of the formation and the backside the blind
(08:03):
side of the quarterbacks on his right. So yeah, sorry, soapbox,
you got me up there, Aaron, But Will's an athletic guy.
He could play either side. I mean, obviously there is
its easiest to project at left tackle, but that's the
same thing with Fuaga, a guy who could, in my opinion,
play either easily, and he made that transition pretty seamlessly.
(08:25):
He was a guy who would come out as a
right tackle and was able to shift over. So that
seems to be a forgotten conversation this time of year
when you're comparing it to Will Could he play right?
Could he play elsewhere? He's an athletic guy that moves
well in space and is more than functional in the
run game, So, in my opinion, could project either side.
Speaker 2 (08:48):
It seems like in speaking to Will Camble after LSU's
Pro Day, he said that most teams are still looking
at him as a tackle and a couple maybe at
guard because that's there need. But it's it did seem
like he wanted to play tackle. Why, Like, what's the
biggest the biggest difference is it ego thing? Like why
(09:09):
these guys think that they got to hold down the corners?
Speaker 3 (09:13):
Yeah, I think the ask is different. I think I
think you have to be a little more dynamic at
tackle than you do at guard. I think the ask
is depending on the system. You're playing in a much
more confined space. On the end, you're looking for more power.
You talk about you know, I want somebody who can
move folks on the interior. I played next to Jare
(09:35):
Evans and the other guard was Pearl Nicks. So you
talk about two big humans that can take some of
the giants in this world and dump them seven yards.
They were capable of doing that. I think that's kind
of what you're looking for in a profile of a guard,
whereas at tackle you need to be more athletic and dynamic,
and I think that fits Will's game better. I think
(09:56):
there's probably some systems that could move him into guard
and want that lateral mobility that he offers, But for
just the way he plays, I think he's a more
natural tackle than he is a guard.
Speaker 2 (10:11):
Is somebody that I've seen slated as either is Texas
Calvin Banks. I mean, he's another person that's been talked
about as one of the top offensive linemen in this
draft here. What are your thoughts on him?
Speaker 3 (10:23):
Yeah, so you got the big three right Obviously, Kevin
Banks is one of those guys where he's built different
than Will, a much thicker lower half, he plays a
little more power, he's got a little more solid base
to him. To me, that's a guy who would project
as an either. I think you could move him into
(10:44):
guard and still have that power position, let him play
and confined spaces, and his game would probably transfer to
either for most systems better than Wills would, just because
Will's I think Will's athletics is higher on the chart
than than Banks is, but Banks probably has more power.
(11:05):
And you know, it depends on what you're what you're
looking to get and how you're looking to fill needs
and fit them in. Usually with that first round, you
know there's such great value there that they can project
to a number of different ways of helping your team.
And both those guys fit that bill all right.
Speaker 2 (11:24):
Some other names we should be looking at as the
draft moves.
Speaker 3 (11:26):
Down, Well, yea mimboo, right, mimbo how we pronounced that?
Missouri another another great player. You watch him move and
to me, he's kind of that tweeer of of he's
got an athleticism athletic profile similar to Wills, but probably
not as high. And then he's also got the power
like Banks, but not as high. So kind of that
(11:48):
hybrid of the two. Uh and and I think they
have separated themselves as to in the consideration of some
of those first linemen taken. You look at depth of
this draft, and I think it's probably deeper on the inside.
I think there's more guards available in this draft than
there are tackles that can help you, and I think
(12:10):
this is probably a woefully thin year for center. So
luckily that's not of need for the Saints because I
don't think there's a lot of guys that project to
be Day one starters or even starters down the road
in this league. So I'm glad we're not in a
position where that's a need for us, and we can
look elsewhere.
Speaker 2 (12:30):
Yeah, Eric McCoy's been holding it down and then brought
back Will Clap so got a back up right there.
Ohio states Josh Simmons. He tore his ACL mid October
and he was somebody that was slated to go first round.
How much of a factor is that injury and maybe
how much does he drop because of it?
Speaker 3 (12:52):
Yeah, I think it's an opportunity for teams that are
willing to understand that ACL's the progression and recovery from
that injury. We're not thirty years ago where it's like,
oh he tours a ACLS. It's like back and be
the exact same, better player. There's still plenty of meat
left on the bone if you will for a player's
(13:14):
profile when they're recovering from an acl different from some
other injuries, but that's not a big concern. You turn
on his tape and Ohio State's got a couple linemen,
you know, you look at Donovan as well, and you say,
these guys can play at the next level. So I've
watched some of their film, just going back and watching
Ohio State play, and that's a talented team. So you've
(13:38):
got some of these blue blood programs that are putting
out some high level players, and two are coming out
of Ohio State that may not be the top of
the first round, but you can look at them and
say they can help our team down the road, or
I can see them as starters. And for Josh coming back,
(13:58):
it's one of those guys where before he got injured,
he's playing at a high level. And that wouldn't scare
me away one bit. I think there's probably more opportunity
for because you know, there's not as much chatter and
buzz surrounding a guy like that.
Speaker 2 (14:14):
Sure, what are you watching film for? You just spit
back on your couch, dial up some O line film
and go and it's.
Speaker 3 (14:22):
Scary here and you got to let it go at
some point, and it's hard for me. So usually this
time of year I'm training offensive linemen as they get
ready for the draft, and this is it's one of
the first years that I'm not training anybody. So it's
old habits of just being able to watch film and
try to stay somewhat connected to the game. It's now
(14:43):
it's sad, and I don't appreciate you pointing that out
in front of all these fans that are knowing. How
you know, you got to let the rope go at
some point, John, but you have.
Speaker 2 (14:51):
It yet, but you do stay involved still, as you said,
training people, and you're there doing stuff with Georgia. We
have no lineman there that we're working with.
Speaker 3 (15:01):
Oh yeah there. So I've worked with a number of
offensive line coming out of Georgia in years past. There's uh,
you know, four guys have are leaving Georgia. So there's
all all draftable, all capable of helping teams in different levels.
You've got Date rat Ledge and Jared Wilson, Dylan Fairchilds
and your trusts and different player profiles. But uh, you
(15:26):
know it's again when you start looking at programs like
LSU or Georgia, Ohio State Texas. It seems like every
year they've got a player or two, and it's because
the way they recruit. You know, you've recruited UH and
it's most difficult to find offensive and defensive linemen. So
you pool these players together, you develop them for three
(15:47):
or four years, and it's it's no surprise that when
they leave the and matriculate through the college ranks, they
are ready to help out some profession team. So George
is no exception. This year. There's a number of guys that,
you know, depending on where you have them raided, whether
(16:07):
it's a second third day rating, they can come in
and fill some needs across that roster.
Speaker 2 (16:16):
I saw somewhere where somebody was saying that there's about
one hundred and forty eight draftable offensive linemen out there,
but probably about twenty max will actually get drafted, and
it seems crazy considering how many rounds there are and
how many picks. But you mentioned that the depth might
not be there across the board this year.
Speaker 3 (16:38):
Yeah, so you know, you look at it, and I'm
sure now that I'm old Aaron, and you continue to
point that out, and I appreciate it. Humbling, thank you
for this. Now I've got more friends that are like
coaches across the league. You know, like there's a quarter
of the teams in the league where either played with
somebody or played against Somebody's probably more than that, but
you get to talking to him and as they're evaluating players,
(17:02):
it's like, can he be a cornerstone for our team?
Can he be a starter? Is he like a sixth
man type, speaking specifically for offensive line, or is this
a developmental guy that maybe he can be a backup
one day? And then based on that analysis, that's when
you kind of start rating them as to know, you know,
(17:23):
I think there's a top ten pick. I think it's
the first rounder. I think this is two or three.
I think this is back in or he's a free
agent guy that you know, there's parts of his game
that we like and maybe you know there's something down
the road. So when you're when you're looking at it,
it's funny, you know, is there one hundred and fifty
guys that are going to be meaningful contributors in the NFL? No,
they're not draftable, as in something about their game is exciting.
(17:49):
Maybe you know, we talked earlier about maybe they're mallers,
you know, maybe they can move people, and you're like,
we need to work on them in this space, or
maybe their head butters and and they play out over
their toes too much, and that's something that we can
work on and fix. And you know, once you get
towards the back end of draft a ble quote unquote players,
(18:14):
they all have their fall flaws and and so to
the sort of the top rank guys, and they're not
perfect players out there. So understanding what you need, what
you what your system requires and demands is important because, uh,
you look at the Eagles or the Ravens and their
(18:36):
ask is very different than you know, some of the
drop back teams where you're going, well, we need somebody
who can who can pass, protect and five man pro constantly,
or do we need somebody who can you know, root
out and move people because we're a run first offense.
So I think understanding a player's profile and then fitting
(18:57):
them into your system is super important.
Speaker 2 (18:59):
Uh.
Speaker 3 (19:00):
With that said, Aaron, there's not one hundred and fifty
draftable players that you know, you look out there and say,
hey they can help us. That just doesn't exist.
Speaker 2 (19:08):
Okay, you mentioned some of your friends that are coaching,
which are you here with the Saints and then you
mentioned the Eagles and their system, Well, Kellen Moore is
now here as well. What is this line going to
look like? What do you think are going to be
the things that they're really valuing in their alignment based
on the scheme.
Speaker 3 (19:28):
Yeah, so it's going to be interesting to watch because
I think you look at coach Moore's history and it
wasn't just one way of doing things. I think he
did an incredible job of trying to match scheme with personnel.
And now that he is at the Helm, will you
can kind of craft both to each other. You can
(19:49):
draft the players that you want to fit the system
that you want, and you know, when you find guys
like Fuwaga from last year, it can fit in almost
any system. If he were you end up in Baltimore,
which is run first, he would fit there because he's
he can play with that kind of power. Or if
it's you know, more of a dropback system with five
(20:09):
man protection in the old Pete Carmichael days, he would
be he would be equally as adept in that type role.
So there are a few guys that fit both type systems,
and you know it's it's pretty broad of me to
say it's one or the other, and there's a wide
spectrum of what you're looking for. But you know, you'd
(20:34):
love to find as many Jaures as you possibly could
where you know, he's a big, powerful guy and you
could fit him into anything, whether it was run first
or you know, we threw the ball sixty times a
game when that was the anomaly, and he was equally
as adept. So you want to find as many of
(20:54):
those guys as you can. They just don't grow on trees.
So I think to get back to your question and Aaron, Uh,
it'll be interesting to see what what does the more
system look like and what type players is he looking for.
You know, there are still some needs across the board
when you look at this roster, and I don't think
(21:14):
we have a very clear cut starting five in this
offensive line. And I'm sure they would love, whether it's
the first, second, or third round, to be able to
add a couple pieces or at least one to kind
of solidify that group.
Speaker 2 (21:31):
You would be vouching for another high draft pick offensive
lineman and get your guys some money.
Speaker 3 (21:37):
I get it well, just historically, you look at the Saints,
look at the look at the where they have placed
their value, and it's all first and second round guys.
Knowing that, in my opinion, you can find starter quality
players at other positions across the offense, UH specifically wide receiver.
(22:02):
If I'm going to single one out wide receiver, tight end,
there's guys that you can play in as a part
of your system that can be big ADS value ads.
I don't think that's the case. I don't think that
without paying a bajillion dollars you can't just find those
in free agency and feel like they're plug and play
(22:24):
and ready to go. So you look historically at the
Saints and under Mickey Loomis specifically, and there have been
a number of first and a handful of second round
guys that have come in. With that said, you know
I just listed we talked about jahree and Carl Nicks,
Zach Streef. There have been a number of fines that
(22:47):
later in the draft where they've evaluated talent and they've
been able to come in. But I would not be
surprised if one of those first five picks that they
have in the first three rounds is dedicated to help
up front.
Speaker 2 (23:01):
The seams have done a good job of evaluating talent
and finding people, even undrafted players in a lot of
other roles. I appreciate all of the time the insight
that you got, and we'll look and we'll see what
happens April twenty fourth, when the draft kicks off.
Speaker 3 (23:16):
Yeah, it's going to be exciting. I know. Anytime you
get a new coach, there's some buzz that surrounds it,
and I'm a part of it. I'm excited to see
what this team looks like under Kellen Moore and the
direction that he starts to take this organization.
Speaker 2 (23:32):
When the draft comes around, I am too. It's going
to be interesting to see what type of players and
then what it all looks like when it comes together
this fall, I guess. But we'll be there earlier with
training camp, so I will see Aaron.
Speaker 3 (23:48):
Let's call it summer. He'll be right back out there.
Speaker 2 (23:50):
I know, right here in Metarie. We're having training camp here,
so I will see you back in New Orleans.
Speaker 3 (23:56):
Absolutely, get your sunscreen ready.
Speaker 2 (23:58):
Yes, thank you, all right, thanks, Eric. Appreciate John, and
we'll be seeing him again very soon during training camp.
Not too far off end of July beginning of August.
Next week, I'll be back Monday, Wednesday, Friday with our
continued position breakdowns. So thanks for tuning in and have
a great weekend.
Speaker 1 (24:17):
Thanks for listening to the New Orleans Saints Podcast presented
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you can download the podcast on iTunes. We'll see you
next time right here on the New Orleans Saints Podcast
presented by seat Geek.
Welcome in to the New Orleans Saints Podcast, present a
buy Seacake. You'll hear from players, coaches, broadcasters and writers
that cover the NFL on a daily basis. The New
Orleans Saints Podcast starts right now. Here's your host, Aaron Summers.
Speaker 2 (00:27):
We're back on the New Orleans Saints Podcast, building towards
the NFL Draft April twenty fourth through twenty six and
for those that need a refresher on the free agency
and roster moves the Saints already have made, you can
tune into our free agency recap show on New Orleans
Saints dot com and on the Gulf Coast Sports and
Entertainment Network with myself and John de Chaser. For today's podcast,
(00:48):
it's all about the big guys upfront offensive lineman and
for a breakdown of this year's prospects, let's bring in
Saints legend John stinchcom. John, thanks for joining me on
the New Orleans Saints Podcast. It's it's good to talk
to you at this point of the year. Usually it's
around the start of the Saints season, but man, we're
early on in things, getting ready for the draft. How
(01:09):
are you?
Speaker 3 (01:10):
I'm great and it is an exciting time of the year.
I think there's a hope springs eternal for every team.
So you start off with a clean slate and get
to add some fun pieces, and with the draft coming up,
that's exciting for everybody.
Speaker 2 (01:23):
I don't know if offensive linemen really get the people
going no events, but the Saints definitely.
Speaker 3 (01:30):
Well hold on, what do you mean, go with fence, Aaron,
That's like, with all due respect, and then you just
take whatever shot you want. Okay, I'm sorry, we don't
get people fired up. I got it.
Speaker 2 (01:39):
Hey, you were a great one and we appreciate you.
Last year, though, the Saints did knock one out of
the park with Talisa Fluaga and their first pick of
the draft. Last year, there was six tackles that went
in the first round, so it was definitely a popular pick.
This year, how many you think are going It'll be interesting.
Speaker 3 (02:00):
I think you look at it and there is a
separation between the top talent that you deserves those early consideration,
let's call it. But I also think this, I think
there's you know, with the Saints having a top ten pick,
there's really, in my opinion, only four position groups that
(02:21):
are worthy of that sort of investment on the offensive
side of the all obviously quarterback and then offensive tackle.
I think those are difference makers. And then defensively, you're
looking at it and you either want to get a
lockdown corner like we've been able to find in years past,
or somebody who can pressure the quarterbacks on an edge rusher. So,
(02:44):
in my opinion, those are kind of the four positions
that are deserving of that top ten consideration. And I
think there's a number of players that could help not
only the Saints team, but any team. And when you
have that top ten pick, you want it to be
an impact on your organization for years and years to come.
Speaker 2 (03:06):
When you're looking at offensive linemen and the prospects, what
are some of the things that you're keyed in on
when you're what And I'm sure it varies by position
on the line as well.
Speaker 3 (03:19):
Yeah, absolutely so tackle specifically. I mean, you want somebody
that can do both, that is athletic enough to where
you're not worried about facing some of the you know,
these speed demons coming off the edge. You're going to
face the Mica Parsons of the world, and the Boss
and the Watts, and so you need somebody who can move.
And then the way the direction this game has moved,
(03:42):
it's you've got to be able to run the ball now.
So somebody who can, who can generate that power, create
something some of that vertical separation that you see, and
operate in space. That's not an easy combo to find
in players, especially somebody that's ready made and can jump
right in. And like you said, I think you hit
(04:03):
a home run last year and finding for Waga. Who
fits that bill. He's athletic enough, and you saw the
development of him and his game throughout the season of Yes,
he can move, he's super athletic, and you also saw
the power that he generates. So that's the type player
that you're looking for when you're trying to draft someone,
(04:23):
not only in the first round, but I think there's
an even higher bar to clear when you're looking at
a top ten pick.
Speaker 2 (04:29):
Okay, So with Will Campbell at the combine and the
whole scrupancy around his arm length, how big of a
deal is that?
Speaker 3 (04:38):
Yeah, I think it's laughable. I mean there's guys in
the past who're worried about their hand size and all
these things, and turn on the film. Can he player?
Can he not, And Will's played in the SEC for
a number of years now against the very best. The
same guys that he's going to face were similar at
this next level and did so in a very respect manner.
(05:00):
So am I worried that, you know, it's half an
inch shorter than others, No, I'm not. I think you
watch him play and you see his athleticism and it
jumps out off the film, and I'm sure at the
State of Louisiana would be thrilled to keep one of
their own right there in the backyard. So I'm sure
(05:22):
there's internal pressures just to at least consider walking down
that path.
Speaker 2 (05:26):
He stepped on campus there and won the starting job
at left tackle as a true freshman, played three years
there and did very well. I was looking at some
of the analysis of his game and someone said that
he's not a dominant destroyer at point of attack. Can
you explain exactly what that means?
Speaker 3 (05:46):
Yeah, so he's not one of those physical malers. I
think Makai Beckton when he was coming out, the guy
was three seventy five. So you turn on his film
and he's truly mashing people, and that's not Will game.
Will's athletick. He moves really well. You see him stay
in position in pass protection, and you know that's more
(06:09):
his game. He's not one of those guys that once
he gets his hands on you, he's just going to
run you twelve yards and dump folks. So I don't
know if that's a necessity, if that's what you're looking for,
if that's the type offense that you plan on running,
he's probably not your guy. But he's a very capable
run blocker. You see him sustained blocks, you see him
(06:30):
get in the right position and run his feet, And
although you don't see that drive from Malers that fit
that bill. I think he offers that balance that folks
are looking for in the ability to be successful in
both pass protection and the run game. So not the
Maller type. That's that's not his mo and for most systems,
(06:54):
it doesn't need to.
Speaker 2 (06:55):
Be on the left side in general.
Speaker 3 (06:58):
Well, I mean that's where we've seeing him most recently.
I think you look at his player profile and probably
projects best at left tackle. In my opinion, I'm biased.
Aaron I spent most of my time in the NFL
at right tackle, but I think because of the way
the game has evolved. There's equal ask whether it's left
(07:20):
side or right side. It used to be you know,
your right side is your more powerful player. Your right
tackle and your left tackles you're more athletic. Blind side
of the quarterback I think that's the biggest misused term
in all of sports, if I'm going to be candid
with you, because the backside of a quarterback is away
from where he's looking, so you know, it's usually to
(07:43):
the to the strength of the field, the strength of
the formation, that the wide side of the field. So
if you're on the left hash, guess where the eyes
of the quarterback are. You're to his right, So that
makes it the left tackle. Guess what. We don't just
play on the left hash anymore. You know, it's you
go to that right hash. You're looking over to the
left side of the formation and the backside the blind
(08:03):
side of the quarterbacks on his right. So yeah, sorry, soapbox,
you got me up there, Aaron, But Will's an athletic guy.
He could play either side. I mean, obviously there is
its easiest to project at left tackle, but that's the
same thing with Fuaga, a guy who could, in my opinion,
play either easily, and he made that transition pretty seamlessly.
(08:25):
He was a guy who would come out as a
right tackle and was able to shift over. So that
seems to be a forgotten conversation this time of year
when you're comparing it to Will Could he play right?
Could he play elsewhere? He's an athletic guy that moves
well in space and is more than functional in the
run game, So, in my opinion, could project either side.
Speaker 2 (08:48):
It seems like in speaking to Will Camble after LSU's
Pro Day, he said that most teams are still looking
at him as a tackle and a couple maybe at
guard because that's there need. But it's it did seem
like he wanted to play tackle. Why, Like, what's the
biggest the biggest difference is it ego thing? Like why
(09:09):
these guys think that they got to hold down the corners?
Speaker 3 (09:13):
Yeah, I think the ask is different. I think I
think you have to be a little more dynamic at
tackle than you do at guard. I think the ask
is depending on the system. You're playing in a much
more confined space. On the end, you're looking for more power.
You talk about you know, I want somebody who can
move folks on the interior. I played next to Jare
(09:35):
Evans and the other guard was Pearl Nicks. So you
talk about two big humans that can take some of
the giants in this world and dump them seven yards.
They were capable of doing that. I think that's kind
of what you're looking for in a profile of a guard,
whereas at tackle you need to be more athletic and dynamic,
and I think that fits Will's game better. I think
(09:56):
there's probably some systems that could move him into guard
and want that lateral mobility that he offers, But for
just the way he plays, I think he's a more
natural tackle than he is a guard.
Speaker 2 (10:11):
Is somebody that I've seen slated as either is Texas
Calvin Banks. I mean, he's another person that's been talked
about as one of the top offensive linemen in this
draft here. What are your thoughts on him?
Speaker 3 (10:23):
Yeah, so you got the big three right Obviously, Kevin
Banks is one of those guys where he's built different
than Will, a much thicker lower half, he plays a
little more power, he's got a little more solid base
to him. To me, that's a guy who would project
as an either. I think you could move him into
(10:44):
guard and still have that power position, let him play
and confined spaces, and his game would probably transfer to
either for most systems better than Wills would, just because
Will's I think Will's athletics is higher on the chart
than than Banks is, but Banks probably has more power.
(11:05):
And you know, it depends on what you're what you're
looking to get and how you're looking to fill needs
and fit them in. Usually with that first round, you
know there's such great value there that they can project
to a number of different ways of helping your team.
And both those guys fit that bill all right.
Speaker 2 (11:24):
Some other names we should be looking at as the
draft moves.
Speaker 3 (11:26):
Down, Well, yea mimboo, right, mimbo how we pronounced that?
Missouri another another great player. You watch him move and
to me, he's kind of that tweeer of of he's
got an athleticism athletic profile similar to Wills, but probably
not as high. And then he's also got the power
like Banks, but not as high. So kind of that
(11:48):
hybrid of the two. Uh and and I think they
have separated themselves as to in the consideration of some
of those first linemen taken. You look at depth of
this draft, and I think it's probably deeper on the inside.
I think there's more guards available in this draft than
there are tackles that can help you, and I think
(12:10):
this is probably a woefully thin year for center. So
luckily that's not of need for the Saints because I
don't think there's a lot of guys that project to
be Day one starters or even starters down the road
in this league. So I'm glad we're not in a
position where that's a need for us, and we can
look elsewhere.
Speaker 2 (12:30):
Yeah, Eric McCoy's been holding it down and then brought
back Will Clap so got a back up right there.
Ohio states Josh Simmons. He tore his ACL mid October
and he was somebody that was slated to go first round.
How much of a factor is that injury and maybe
how much does he drop because of it?
Speaker 3 (12:52):
Yeah, I think it's an opportunity for teams that are
willing to understand that ACL's the progression and recovery from
that injury. We're not thirty years ago where it's like,
oh he tours a ACLS. It's like back and be
the exact same, better player. There's still plenty of meat
left on the bone if you will for a player's
(13:14):
profile when they're recovering from an acl different from some
other injuries, but that's not a big concern. You turn
on his tape and Ohio State's got a couple linemen,
you know, you look at Donovan as well, and you say,
these guys can play at the next level. So I've
watched some of their film, just going back and watching
Ohio State play, and that's a talented team. So you've
(13:38):
got some of these blue blood programs that are putting
out some high level players, and two are coming out
of Ohio State that may not be the top of
the first round, but you can look at them and
say they can help our team down the road, or
I can see them as starters. And for Josh coming back,
(13:58):
it's one of those guys where before he got injured,
he's playing at a high level. And that wouldn't scare
me away one bit. I think there's probably more opportunity
for because you know, there's not as much chatter and
buzz surrounding a guy like that.
Speaker 2 (14:14):
Sure, what are you watching film for? You just spit
back on your couch, dial up some O line film
and go and it's.
Speaker 3 (14:22):
Scary here and you got to let it go at
some point, and it's hard for me. So usually this
time of year I'm training offensive linemen as they get
ready for the draft, and this is it's one of
the first years that I'm not training anybody. So it's
old habits of just being able to watch film and
try to stay somewhat connected to the game. It's now
(14:43):
it's sad, and I don't appreciate you pointing that out
in front of all these fans that are knowing. How
you know, you got to let the rope go at
some point, John, but you have.
Speaker 2 (14:51):
It yet, but you do stay involved still, as you said,
training people, and you're there doing stuff with Georgia. We
have no lineman there that we're working with.
Speaker 3 (15:01):
Oh yeah there. So I've worked with a number of
offensive line coming out of Georgia in years past. There's uh,
you know, four guys have are leaving Georgia. So there's
all all draftable, all capable of helping teams in different levels.
You've got Date rat Ledge and Jared Wilson, Dylan Fairchilds
and your trusts and different player profiles. But uh, you
(15:26):
know it's again when you start looking at programs like
LSU or Georgia, Ohio State Texas. It seems like every
year they've got a player or two, and it's because
the way they recruit. You know, you've recruited UH and
it's most difficult to find offensive and defensive linemen. So
you pool these players together, you develop them for three
(15:47):
or four years, and it's it's no surprise that when
they leave the and matriculate through the college ranks, they
are ready to help out some profession team. So George
is no exception. This year. There's a number of guys that,
you know, depending on where you have them raided, whether
(16:07):
it's a second third day rating, they can come in
and fill some needs across that roster.
Speaker 2 (16:16):
I saw somewhere where somebody was saying that there's about
one hundred and forty eight draftable offensive linemen out there,
but probably about twenty max will actually get drafted, and
it seems crazy considering how many rounds there are and
how many picks. But you mentioned that the depth might
not be there across the board this year.
Speaker 3 (16:38):
Yeah, so you know, you look at it, and I'm
sure now that I'm old Aaron, and you continue to
point that out, and I appreciate it. Humbling, thank you
for this. Now I've got more friends that are like
coaches across the league. You know, like there's a quarter
of the teams in the league where either played with
somebody or played against Somebody's probably more than that, but
you get to talking to him and as they're evaluating players,
(17:02):
it's like, can he be a cornerstone for our team?
Can he be a starter? Is he like a sixth
man type, speaking specifically for offensive line, or is this
a developmental guy that maybe he can be a backup
one day? And then based on that analysis, that's when
you kind of start rating them as to know, you know,
(17:23):
I think there's a top ten pick. I think it's
the first rounder. I think this is two or three.
I think this is back in or he's a free
agent guy that you know, there's parts of his game
that we like and maybe you know there's something down
the road. So when you're when you're looking at it,
it's funny, you know, is there one hundred and fifty
guys that are going to be meaningful contributors in the NFL? No,
they're not draftable, as in something about their game is exciting.
(17:49):
Maybe you know, we talked earlier about maybe they're mallers,
you know, maybe they can move people, and you're like,
we need to work on them in this space, or
maybe their head butters and and they play out over
their toes too much, and that's something that we can
work on and fix. And you know, once you get
towards the back end of draft a ble quote unquote players,
(18:14):
they all have their fall flaws and and so to
the sort of the top rank guys, and they're not
perfect players out there. So understanding what you need, what
you what your system requires and demands is important because, uh,
you look at the Eagles or the Ravens and their
(18:36):
ask is very different than you know, some of the
drop back teams where you're going, well, we need somebody
who can who can pass, protect and five man pro constantly,
or do we need somebody who can you know, root
out and move people because we're a run first offense.
So I think understanding a player's profile and then fitting
(18:57):
them into your system is super important.
Speaker 2 (18:59):
Uh.
Speaker 3 (19:00):
With that said, Aaron, there's not one hundred and fifty
draftable players that you know, you look out there and say,
hey they can help us. That just doesn't exist.
Speaker 2 (19:08):
Okay, you mentioned some of your friends that are coaching,
which are you here with the Saints and then you
mentioned the Eagles and their system, Well, Kellen Moore is
now here as well. What is this line going to
look like? What do you think are going to be
the things that they're really valuing in their alignment based
on the scheme.
Speaker 3 (19:28):
Yeah, so it's going to be interesting to watch because
I think you look at coach Moore's history and it
wasn't just one way of doing things. I think he
did an incredible job of trying to match scheme with personnel.
And now that he is at the Helm, will you
can kind of craft both to each other. You can
(19:49):
draft the players that you want to fit the system
that you want, and you know, when you find guys
like Fuwaga from last year, it can fit in almost
any system. If he were you end up in Baltimore,
which is run first, he would fit there because he's
he can play with that kind of power. Or if
it's you know, more of a dropback system with five
(20:09):
man protection in the old Pete Carmichael days, he would
be he would be equally as adept in that type role.
So there are a few guys that fit both type systems,
and you know it's it's pretty broad of me to
say it's one or the other, and there's a wide
spectrum of what you're looking for. But you know, you'd
(20:34):
love to find as many Jaures as you possibly could
where you know, he's a big, powerful guy and you
could fit him into anything, whether it was run first
or you know, we threw the ball sixty times a
game when that was the anomaly, and he was equally
as adept. So you want to find as many of
(20:54):
those guys as you can. They just don't grow on trees.
So I think to get back to your question and Aaron, Uh,
it'll be interesting to see what what does the more
system look like and what type players is he looking for.
You know, there are still some needs across the board
when you look at this roster, and I don't think
(21:14):
we have a very clear cut starting five in this
offensive line. And I'm sure they would love, whether it's
the first, second, or third round, to be able to
add a couple pieces or at least one to kind
of solidify that group.
Speaker 2 (21:31):
You would be vouching for another high draft pick offensive
lineman and get your guys some money.
Speaker 3 (21:37):
I get it well, just historically, you look at the Saints,
look at the look at the where they have placed
their value, and it's all first and second round guys.
Knowing that, in my opinion, you can find starter quality
players at other positions across the offense, UH specifically wide receiver.
(22:02):
If I'm going to single one out wide receiver, tight end,
there's guys that you can play in as a part
of your system that can be big ADS value ads.
I don't think that's the case. I don't think that
without paying a bajillion dollars you can't just find those
in free agency and feel like they're plug and play
(22:24):
and ready to go. So you look historically at the
Saints and under Mickey Loomis specifically, and there have been
a number of first and a handful of second round
guys that have come in. With that said, you know
I just listed we talked about jahree and Carl Nicks,
Zach Streef. There have been a number of fines that
(22:47):
later in the draft where they've evaluated talent and they've
been able to come in. But I would not be
surprised if one of those first five picks that they
have in the first three rounds is dedicated to help
up front.
Speaker 2 (23:01):
The seams have done a good job of evaluating talent
and finding people, even undrafted players in a lot of
other roles. I appreciate all of the time the insight
that you got, and we'll look and we'll see what
happens April twenty fourth, when the draft kicks off.
Speaker 3 (23:16):
Yeah, it's going to be exciting. I know. Anytime you
get a new coach, there's some buzz that surrounds it,
and I'm a part of it. I'm excited to see
what this team looks like under Kellen Moore and the
direction that he starts to take this organization.
Speaker 2 (23:32):
When the draft comes around, I am too. It's going
to be interesting to see what type of players and
then what it all looks like when it comes together
this fall, I guess. But we'll be there earlier with
training camp, so I will see Aaron.
Speaker 3 (23:48):
Let's call it summer. He'll be right back out there.
Speaker 2 (23:50):
I know, right here in Metarie. We're having training camp here,
so I will see you back in New Orleans.
Speaker 3 (23:56):
Absolutely, get your sunscreen ready.
Speaker 2 (23:58):
Yes, thank you, all right, thanks, Eric. Appreciate John, and
we'll be seeing him again very soon during training camp.
Not too far off end of July beginning of August.
Next week, I'll be back Monday, Wednesday, Friday with our
continued position breakdowns. So thanks for tuning in and have
a great weekend.
Speaker 1 (24:17):
Thanks for listening to the New Orleans Saints Podcast presented
by seat Geek. Join us three times per week on
New Orleans Saints dot com, the Saints Mobile app, or
you can download the podcast on iTunes. We'll see you
next time right here on the New Orleans Saints Podcast
presented by seat Geek.
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