April 9, 2025 • 20 mins
Locked On Saints host Ross Jackson joins Erin Summers to talk about the tight end prospects in the upcoming draft and what positions he thinks the Saints will go after.
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Speaker 1 (00:05):
Welcome in to the New Orleans Saints Podcast, presently by Seatcake.
You'll hear from players, coaches, broadcasters and writers that cover
the NFL on a daily basis. The New Orleans Saints
Podcast starts right now. Here's your host, Aaron Summers.
Speaker 2 (00:27):
Welcome to the New Orleans Saints Podcast. I'm Aaron Summers.
We're continuing our draft series as we head into the
draft April twenty fourth, looking at different prospects in different positions,
and today we're doing something a little different. We're bringing
in Ross Jackson because I mean, let's be honest, he
knows everything about everything and I needed somebody to talk
to me about tight ends today and Ross before we
(00:50):
get into it, I just need you to kind of
give me a summary of what you're up to these days,
because it is hard to keep track.
Speaker 3 (00:57):
Yeah, we got a lot going on. First of all,
thanks much for having me.
Speaker 4 (00:59):
It's always a play to be able to be here
with you, and it'll be able to chat with you.
Speaker 3 (01:02):
You can find me on the.
Speaker 4 (01:04):
Locked On Saints podcast, which reaches two shows, the Daily
Lockdown Saints podcast, as well as every Monday and Thursday,
The Saints Squad, which features myself, Saints Wires, Dylan Sanders,
Athlon Sports, John Hendricks, as well as former New Orleans
Saints wide receiver Lance Moore.
Speaker 3 (01:19):
You can find all the written work that I.
Speaker 4 (01:20):
Do over at Louisiana Sports dot Net as the Saints
beat writer there and you can find it all in
one place the easiest way on your favorite social media
at Ross Jackson, Nola and Ola.
Speaker 2 (01:29):
How is Lance? Is he trying to really talk up
his guys now that he's in the eighties.
Speaker 4 (01:36):
He's playing a very clean game and we love him
for it. Now, he's been awesome. He's been excellent and
obviously you know him being able to step into that
next career as a certified agent in the NFL. Everything's
been so cool. He's got several players in this year's draft.
It's been really awesome to just kind of hear about
his journey.
Speaker 2 (01:50):
Yeah, I'm sure it gives you a different perspective on
some things too. So getting into the tight ends, obviously,
Penn states Tyler Warren has been the one that's been
at the top of everyone rankings when you look at
the group here, Why is he your number one? When
it comes to basically every tight end ranking?
Speaker 3 (02:08):
I've seen it. Yeah.
Speaker 4 (02:09):
I mean, he's kind of the consensus guy. He's the
number one tight end in this draft on my board.
There are some dissenting opinions around it, which is good.
You want those dissenting opinions, especially when it comes to
you know, different conversations and draft rooms.
Speaker 3 (02:22):
And scouts and things like that.
Speaker 4 (02:24):
But I mean when it comes to Tyler Warren, it's
just the the eclecticism of his game. One hundred and
four receptions, two hundred and thirty three receiving yards, and
eight touchdowns last season with the Penn Saint Ntney Lyons
is the focus of that passing game, but also had
you know, twenty plus rushes for over two hundred rushing
yards and another you know, just under a handful of
rushing touchdowns through a touchdown.
Speaker 3 (02:44):
Last year as well.
Speaker 4 (02:45):
It's just the the the remarkable flexibility and versatility of
his game. Is he going to be asked to be
a wildcat quarterback in the NFL? It depends on the
system that he goes to, but outside of that, his
ability to be able to play in line, meaning that
he's like tucked in right next to the offensive tackles
in the slot or all the way out wide like
(03:07):
you would see a wide receiver that alone, in terms
of his versatility to be able to do all those
things makes him a kind of a can't miss candidate
in this year's draft as a playmaker.
Speaker 2 (03:16):
You brought up his ability to get in there like
in the slot as a receiver, rusher, and passer. But
I think a lot of the adjectives that you hear
now with tight ends, as he's a receiving tight end
and not so much a blocking tight end as what
we've seen in the past. How have you seen the
position evolve and maybe what people are looking for change.
Speaker 4 (03:37):
Yeah, it's interesting because there's a lot of people that
want and look different. Teams are going to want different
things to different systems are going to require different types
of fits. But you see a lot now of these
collegiate tight ends coming into the NFL that are polished
pass catchers, in some cases polished route runners as well,
but need to learn run protection, need to learn pass protection,
(04:00):
need to learn how to block with better maybe technique
than they were asked to in college, and things like
that. That's not entirely uncommon, but it's something that I think
now the receiving prowess of guys like brock Bauers and
things like that who come into the league is certainly
more appealing. And I think the other thing that shifted
to Aaron is the expectation of size.
Speaker 3 (04:21):
It used to be at six foot six, six foot.
Speaker 4 (04:23):
Seven tight ends where the marquee types of players, But
now you're looking at kind of six foot three, six
foot four guys being perfectly acceptable first round, second round.
Speaker 3 (04:34):
Investments at the position.
Speaker 4 (04:35):
So I think those are two major shifts that we've
seen at the position in terms of the expectations making
that leap in that transition from college to the pros.
Speaker 2 (04:43):
It's funny that you bring that up, because when I
was talking to Juwan Johnson, who does recently signed that
three year extension with the Saints, he mentioned how he's
not that big of a guy, and he changed from
receiver to tight end and he's going up against offensive
our defensive linemen that are voices side, and I'm looking
at him like, Joan, you look pretty big to me,
Like you're kind of a big guy. But yeah, it
(05:06):
is interesting though that even he views himself as smaller
for a tight end. When you're being asked to block
and hold the ground. When you look at the next
few tight ends that maybe coming off the board, the
Michigan's Colston Loveland, do you have Miami, He's Elijah Royo.
Those guys though have been slated as receiving tight ends.
Speaker 3 (05:29):
Yeah. Absolutely.
Speaker 4 (05:31):
You know, Loveland coming out of Michigan is one of
the more polished route runners at the position, and I
think the truth of the matter is when it comes
to him, when it comes to Tyler Warren, when it
comes to Elijah Royo, you probably don't want those guys
one on one with defensive ends, but typically you try
to avoid that being a part of your game plan
as an offense anyway. The bigger pieces can they contribute
(05:51):
for you as additional blockers in the run game, And
sometimes that's all about a willingness. Sometimes it's about just
being in position and having your number, your jersey numbers
on your back towards that running back to give them
a lane to be able to cut through and things
like that. And so I think those are the things
that you look for on tape and that you can
find with a Colson Loveland, even though he's considered more
(06:12):
of a receiving tight end, but he certainly maybe fits
a little bit more of the traditional what we would
call like a true why tight end, a guy that
lines up in line, that stays site to the formation,
but has the flexibility and versatility to be able to move.
Speaker 3 (06:25):
Around, while Warren and Arroyo would probably be more.
Speaker 4 (06:28):
Of what you'll typically refer to as kind of f
move tight ends guys, so you can move all around
the formation, do a bunch of different things with have
them do split split action releases out of the backfield
and all this other stuff. And so it's just kind
of this fun thing of like these different types of
chess pieces that you can now find at the tight
end position as that position continues to grow and the
talent continues to.
Speaker 3 (06:48):
Grow, and you know, from college to the pros and
all these things.
Speaker 4 (06:53):
But both those guys certainly more so receiving tight ends,
But I think you'll look for do they have what
it takes to be able to maybe grow a little
bit as a blocker so you can have him on
the field for more looks, more downs, more situations things
like that.
Speaker 2 (07:06):
LSU's Mason Taylor is somebody that has started to rise
in conversations around who and where you might draft him,
like who would go before him after him? He's kind
of on that three spot right now. Some people have
him around the fifth tight end that goes off the board,
but it does seem like he's starting to climb, they
(07:27):
have said. People have said, I hate the same thing
because it's like who is that? But it's been out
there that some people think he needs to put on
a little more size, and maybe that's something that they're
hoping that he can do, but they still like what
he brings to the table. I know you saw him
at his pro day at LSU. What do you like
about him?
Speaker 4 (07:46):
Yeah, he's another guy that I look at and I
would personally say, what more size?
Speaker 3 (07:50):
What do you mean? Like he's massive out there right right?
Speaker 4 (07:53):
And then he moved extremely well also right it comes in.
I think he's it's six foot four and he's in
the two four range. I think that's probably pretty solid
in terms.
Speaker 3 (08:03):
Of what it is that you're looking for at the position.
Speaker 4 (08:04):
Maybe you can bump them up into the two fifty
range more solidly. And we've got to remember sometimes too,
that where these guys work out where they like, the
weight at which they work out, the weight at which
they test, the weight at which they do their offseason
prep might be different than the weight that they actually
play at once they get to you know, game mode,
if you will, and things like that. So some of
that might be inherent to what his process is. But
(08:26):
running a four six five and you know, leaping and
giving you twenty eight bench reps and showing the strength
along with the athleticism and the explosion and things like that.
Speaker 3 (08:34):
I think that's the.
Speaker 4 (08:35):
Reason why you saw and why we're seeing all of
the they conversations around Mason Taylor really skyrocketing up boards,
Like he went from being a late day two guy
in the third round being somebody you might have to
invest in the second round in order to be able
to get and a bit of that is the attitude
that he brings.
Speaker 3 (08:53):
He's got an NFL.
Speaker 4 (08:54):
Pedigree as well, of course, and then him coming in
and being a guy that can you know, be that
fifty to fifty jump ball winner in the end zone,
go up there and be bigger than the safeties and
defensive backs that he might be lining up with, but
then be faster than the linebackers that he's going up
against in the middle of the field. That's really really
interesting and obviously something that teams would covet, along with
(09:16):
the fact that he is somebody that will go out
there and block and do some of the dirty work too.
Speaker 2 (09:21):
A lot of the prognosticators the mock drafts have said
that the Saints should select a tight end at some point.
You see that as a need for.
Speaker 4 (09:29):
Them, I think so, I mean, maybe not necessarily a need.
Like the three year deal to bring back Juwan Johnson
gives you kind of a place for your future to head,
and he's somebody that obviously this team is invested in
multiple times over at this point, and with this new
coaching staff and everything, I think that that's going to
all be able to play to Juwan Johnson's strengths a bit.
(09:50):
And so I think the other thing that you're looking at, though,
is that as of right now, foss Row is in
a contract year, Taysom Hills in a contract year, both
those guys coming off of.
Speaker 3 (09:58):
Injuries as well.
Speaker 4 (09:59):
So I think you're looking at just preparing for your
future at the position. If you're the New Orleans Saints,
I could see that being a logical thing to do,
just based on the situation of the entire the circumstance
rather or the entire position group as a whole. You've
got to be ready when you're going into these drafts
in twenty twenty five, You're not just looking for somebody
to help you in twenty twenty five, you're going, Okay,
(10:19):
what can this person be in twenty twenty six, twenty
twenty seven, twenty twenty eight, like, you're looking at that
whole expanse of the rookie contract, and I think that's
something that you could see this team potentially taking the
consideration at the position this year.
Speaker 2 (10:32):
As we move into later in the draft Day two, three, four,
heck even you know over the weekend Saturdays, rounds and
the Saints are needing somebody. Who are some of the
names we should be looking out for.
Speaker 4 (10:44):
Yeah, I've got three like late round guys that I
really like in this year's draft, one of which has
already been connected to New Orleans.
Speaker 3 (10:50):
So I'll start with him.
Speaker 4 (10:51):
Nebraska Cornhuskers tight end Thomas fedoniuh the second.
Speaker 3 (10:55):
He's the guy that comes in and has, you know.
Speaker 4 (10:57):
A little bit of the all around tag at tight end,
do a little of blocking, but is also not a
little bit of blocking, blocks very.
Speaker 3 (11:03):
Well he's in that Cornhusker's offense.
Speaker 4 (11:04):
Playing in Nebraska, you better be able to block, and
so you know him having that while also being a
guy that is, you know, a pretty good athlete and
a polished receiver with safe hands. I think that he's
one that I would watch for in Day three. Arondez Gads.
Then also the second. There's a lot of seconds in
this year's draft, not as many juniors. He's coming in
out of Syracuse. Probably he's a converted wide receiver. I'll
(11:26):
lad Juwan Johnson. So somebody that is of the type
and of the style of tight end that we know
this organization is comfortable with. Good route runner, good contested
catch guy, big hands, all those things. So I think
that those are the are reliable hands. I think those
are kind of the biggest attributes for him. Maybe not
so much a powerful blocker though, so maybe that's too
(11:47):
much of a leap late in the third, but I'm
relate in day three. But he's somebody that I really
like as well. And then I'll finish with Mitchell Evans.
Notre Dame has been a program that we've watched New Orleans,
can you know, go back to a few times over
the course of the recent past. There's something about that
pedigree that they like. When you have a head coach
like they have over there and coach Rima too, you
obviously want to be able to work with those guys.
(12:07):
But Mitchell Evans is an interesting one because if you
he's a watch the film guy, he doesn't have a
ton of stats, doesn't have a ton of things that
jump off the board at you when it comes to
a stat line. But when you watch him on tape
and you see that, you know, Notre Dame's offense just
didn't go to its tied end very much. You can
kind of see where he's working into the open areas
(12:28):
of the field. He's you know, running good routes. He's
you know, moving well and kind of the short area
quickness piece of the game where you're having a change
direction and things like that. He just shows you a
lot of promising things on tape while also again being
a willing blocker that I think that if you're looking
for somebody from a raw traits standpoint, even if the
stat line doesn't match up, he could be a really
interesting candidate for you, just in terms of what his
(12:50):
skill set.
Speaker 2 (12:50):
Looks like, sounds kind of like somebody that we grabbed
those undrafted and Dolln Holker, you know you can, got
some of those flashy moments and as a trait, he
stuck around. So Saints are are not afraid to try
out some guys that didn't get drafted, and they've done
very well with their undrafted free agents and a lot
(13:11):
of them have stuck around for a while. Since I
do have you and I'm the Saints Podcast, you know,
can you you want to just kind of give me
your thoughts on this whole Shador Sanders Staints draft in
a quarterback situation that seems that it has kind of
like taken over the last couple of days.
Speaker 3 (13:29):
Yeah.
Speaker 4 (13:30):
Man, it's the momentum around Schador has been so funny,
not so funny, but it's been so like remarkable to
see and it's been it's been really interesting to watch.
I would say that momentum wise, there's two big names
when it comes to quarterback for the New Orlean Saints draft,
and there's the consistent momentum and the sustained momentum which
has been felt like that's been old miss quarterback Jackson
Dark from the very beginning of the draft process, but
(13:51):
the sort of peak of momentum is absolutely here right
now when it comes to Colorado passes Shador Sanders.
Speaker 3 (13:58):
Look, I don't know if the.
Speaker 4 (14:00):
Saints are, you know, super in on your door or
super out on your door where they really sit on
the spectrum when it comes to him, But I will
say this, he's a really, really talented passer, and he's
a passer that is more accurate and more and maybe
shows better elite ball placement than he is a strong
armed passer. And so some people will develop feelings about
that in whichever way they want to go.
Speaker 3 (14:20):
But in the NFL, a mongst all of it.
Speaker 4 (14:22):
If you can throw at seventy yards all you want,
but if you can't throw at seventy yards and hit
your target, you're not doing me much much good as
an NFL organization.
Speaker 3 (14:30):
And so accuracy is all right. And so seeing him as.
Speaker 4 (14:34):
A potential for the New Orleans Saints at number nine,
I still think he goes off the board early. Whether
it's the Cleveland at two, New York at three, even
Las Vegas at six, I don't believe that any of
those three teams have long term solutions at the quarterback position,
even with some recent free agent acquisitions and even a
trade for the Raiders. I think again, you're not just
looking at twenty twenty five. You're looking at way longer
(14:56):
than that, especially with a quarterback in the first round.
Speaker 3 (14:58):
And so I could see any of those teams do it.
Speaker 4 (15:00):
I could see a team like the Pittsburgh Seelers trying
to trade up as well to be able to go
and get their guys. So I think it's a tall
task for New Orleans if they want to stick and
pick at nine and hope that sure Sanders is there.
Speaker 3 (15:10):
But if he is there, it's it's just good business.
Speaker 4 (15:13):
It's good business to go out and grab one of
the best quarterbacks in this year's.
Speaker 3 (15:17):
Draft without having to move around.
Speaker 4 (15:19):
If he's there for you, it's going to be really
tough for them to pass on him, for sure, unless
they feel really really good about another one of those
quarterbacks later on.
Speaker 2 (15:27):
Yeah, Jackson Dart was somebody that we've seen from their
IBN as somebody that was talking about is a good
fit for the Saints. Obviously they've been in contact over
the last couple of weeks as well. People reading into
maybe Alvin Kamara going up there visiting prime hanging out
with Craado doing going through practice. It's been funny to
(15:48):
see all of that, for sure, and it just, I
don't know, it makes you love the draft because you
never know what's going to happen and there's all these
little things. It's tea leaves. If people are over an
as it is, it comes. So it's gonna be a
lot of fun when we get there. Other needs that
you think the Saints have other than you know, we've
talked about possibly a tight end quarterback. It than's there
(16:11):
and it works.
Speaker 4 (16:13):
Yeah, I would probably say corner is a spot that
makes sense right like you know, you think about going
back to the trade deadline last year, Marshall Latimore traded
to the Washington Commanders to get sort of turned into
some pretty solid draft selections out of that. We'll see
what those draft selections turn into. But then Paulson Adiebo's
signing with the New York Giants, getting his next opportunity
(16:34):
over in the Big Apple, and then bringing in Isaac
Adam I think was an excellent move by New Orleans
in terms of bringing in a familiar face, somebody that
they know pretty well.
Speaker 3 (16:41):
All these other pieces, and that is also talented.
Speaker 4 (16:45):
But you know, I think that's a position where you
can continue to invest and it's not necessarily something you
have to invest in or a spot you have to
invest in in the first round. You could do that
in the second round with one of those third round picks. However,
it works, so there's a lot of different spots where
they can go there. I'm curious to say, if a
big bodied tight end excuse me, a big bodied wide receiver,
my apologies, is on the docket at all for New Orleans.
Speaker 3 (17:07):
They have these.
Speaker 4 (17:08):
You know, they've built a lot of speed in their
wide receiver room. But you wonder, like Kellen Moore when
we talked to him at the at the league meetings,
he kind of mentioned, you know, ideally, you want your
you know, some people want their wide receiver room to
kind of look like a basketball team. You want your center,
you want your point guard, you want your big bodied
guys and all these other things. But really, I mean,
when it comes to Kellen Moore, as he said over
and over again, he wants to identify the superpower of
(17:28):
the players that he does have. More than he's worried
about going out and trying to find the superpower in
you know, another player, but I would I would venture
to guess that if there's an opportunity to go and
get a big bodied guy with a superpower, that Kellen
Moore would know what to do with that player. So
I would certainly put kind of that mold of a
wide receiver on pick watch for the New Orleans Saints
during the draft as well.
Speaker 2 (17:49):
When you say superpower, I immediately think of defensive end
Cam Jordan because it feels like he has so many
the longevity that he's had, right, his personality, the positivity.
He was on Good Morning Football talking about how he
thinks that when this team is healthy, they could be
the second best team in the League's.
Speaker 4 (18:07):
I mean, look, this is what you need to do
in the NFL is to have that kind of attitude.
And I'm actually surprised to hear him say second best
team in the NFL. Usually players like well being the
best team in the NFL. But like, that's the attitude
that you have to have. If you're not going to
have that attitude, then what are you on the field for, right?
I Mean, I think that that's the kind of thing
that Cam has always been so brilliant at throughout his career,
(18:31):
and I mean going on year fifteen, Aaron, I don't
think I've done anything well for fifteen years at once.
Speaker 3 (18:35):
You know what I mean, fifteen years in a row.
Speaker 2 (18:37):
It's never happened consistently.
Speaker 4 (18:40):
I've done a lot of things not well for fifteen years,
that's for sure. But I mean, yeah, like that's something
that he's always been so great at is the belief
in the team. And when you look at who your
leaders are in this locker room, Cam's name is one
of the first names that pops up. And if Cam's
out there not believing in this team, then who why
anyone follows suit so great to see him be able to,
(19:03):
you know, willingly go out there have that belief, truly
know that he believes it too. Like we've talked to
Cam a lot, and we know that he truly believes.
Speaker 3 (19:10):
In what this team has.
Speaker 4 (19:12):
And I think that this is an organization that still
very much feels like injuries had a major impact last year,
and so staying healthy here going into twenty twenty five
would be such a big benefit for them, should that
be the case, to allow them maybe to be able
to maximize themselves in a way that they weren't necessarily
able to you know, down to their sixth seventh, this SAT,
and the other all throughout the season.
Speaker 2 (19:32):
Yeah, you may be right. Cam might have said top
two teams. He might not have positioned himself as second.
So I'll have to fact.
Speaker 4 (19:40):
Check that I was gonna say that.
Speaker 3 (19:45):
Cam.
Speaker 4 (19:45):
I'm surprised he didn't say the best, right right, not
even top Tam surprised he didn't say the best.
Speaker 2 (19:50):
But it is really good to hear the confidence that
he has in this team and the belief that he has,
and the players in the locker room and what they
can add in the draft, and then looking at what
Kellen Moore really wants to do as far as highlighting
each person's strengths and pulling that out, and Camp feels
like it's there and Callen feels like you can pull
it out of everybody, then it's going to be really
interesting to see what this team does look like in
(20:12):
the fall. So I'm looking forward to it and I
appreciate your insight as always.
Speaker 3 (20:17):
Of course, thanks for having me. Always pleasure to be
here with you.
Speaker 1 (20:22):
Thanks for listening to the New Orleans Saints podcast presented
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next time right here on the New Orleans Saints Podcast,
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Welcome in to the New Orleans Saints Podcast, presently by Seatcake.
You'll hear from players, coaches, broadcasters and writers that cover
the NFL on a daily basis. The New Orleans Saints
Podcast starts right now. Here's your host, Aaron Summers.
Speaker 2 (00:27):
Welcome to the New Orleans Saints Podcast. I'm Aaron Summers.
We're continuing our draft series as we head into the
draft April twenty fourth, looking at different prospects in different positions,
and today we're doing something a little different. We're bringing
in Ross Jackson because I mean, let's be honest, he
knows everything about everything and I needed somebody to talk
to me about tight ends today and Ross before we
(00:50):
get into it, I just need you to kind of
give me a summary of what you're up to these days,
because it is hard to keep track.
Speaker 3 (00:57):
Yeah, we got a lot going on. First of all,
thanks much for having me.
Speaker 4 (00:59):
It's always a play to be able to be here
with you, and it'll be able to chat with you.
Speaker 3 (01:02):
You can find me on the.
Speaker 4 (01:04):
Locked On Saints podcast, which reaches two shows, the Daily
Lockdown Saints podcast, as well as every Monday and Thursday,
The Saints Squad, which features myself, Saints Wires, Dylan Sanders,
Athlon Sports, John Hendricks, as well as former New Orleans
Saints wide receiver Lance Moore.
Speaker 3 (01:19):
You can find all the written work that I.
Speaker 4 (01:20):
Do over at Louisiana Sports dot Net as the Saints
beat writer there and you can find it all in
one place the easiest way on your favorite social media
at Ross Jackson, Nola and Ola.
Speaker 2 (01:29):
How is Lance? Is he trying to really talk up
his guys now that he's in the eighties.
Speaker 4 (01:36):
He's playing a very clean game and we love him
for it. Now, he's been awesome. He's been excellent and
obviously you know him being able to step into that
next career as a certified agent in the NFL. Everything's
been so cool. He's got several players in this year's draft.
It's been really awesome to just kind of hear about
his journey.
Speaker 2 (01:50):
Yeah, I'm sure it gives you a different perspective on
some things too. So getting into the tight ends, obviously,
Penn states Tyler Warren has been the one that's been
at the top of everyone rankings when you look at
the group here, Why is he your number one? When
it comes to basically every tight end ranking?
Speaker 3 (02:08):
I've seen it. Yeah.
Speaker 4 (02:09):
I mean, he's kind of the consensus guy. He's the
number one tight end in this draft on my board.
There are some dissenting opinions around it, which is good.
You want those dissenting opinions, especially when it comes to
you know, different conversations and draft rooms.
Speaker 3 (02:22):
And scouts and things like that.
Speaker 4 (02:24):
But I mean when it comes to Tyler Warren, it's
just the the eclecticism of his game. One hundred and
four receptions, two hundred and thirty three receiving yards, and
eight touchdowns last season with the Penn Saint Ntney Lyons
is the focus of that passing game, but also had
you know, twenty plus rushes for over two hundred rushing
yards and another you know, just under a handful of
rushing touchdowns through a touchdown.
Speaker 3 (02:44):
Last year as well.
Speaker 4 (02:45):
It's just the the the remarkable flexibility and versatility of
his game. Is he going to be asked to be
a wildcat quarterback in the NFL? It depends on the
system that he goes to, but outside of that, his
ability to be able to play in line, meaning that
he's like tucked in right next to the offensive tackles
in the slot or all the way out wide like
(03:07):
you would see a wide receiver that alone, in terms
of his versatility to be able to do all those
things makes him a kind of a can't miss candidate
in this year's draft as a playmaker.
Speaker 2 (03:16):
You brought up his ability to get in there like
in the slot as a receiver, rusher, and passer. But
I think a lot of the adjectives that you hear
now with tight ends, as he's a receiving tight end
and not so much a blocking tight end as what
we've seen in the past. How have you seen the
position evolve and maybe what people are looking for change.
Speaker 4 (03:37):
Yeah, it's interesting because there's a lot of people that
want and look different. Teams are going to want different
things to different systems are going to require different types
of fits. But you see a lot now of these
collegiate tight ends coming into the NFL that are polished
pass catchers, in some cases polished route runners as well,
but need to learn run protection, need to learn pass protection,
(04:00):
need to learn how to block with better maybe technique
than they were asked to in college, and things like
that. That's not entirely uncommon, but it's something that I think
now the receiving prowess of guys like brock Bauers and
things like that who come into the league is certainly
more appealing. And I think the other thing that shifted
to Aaron is the expectation of size.
Speaker 3 (04:21):
It used to be at six foot six, six foot.
Speaker 4 (04:23):
Seven tight ends where the marquee types of players, But
now you're looking at kind of six foot three, six
foot four guys being perfectly acceptable first round, second round.
Speaker 3 (04:34):
Investments at the position.
Speaker 4 (04:35):
So I think those are two major shifts that we've
seen at the position in terms of the expectations making
that leap in that transition from college to the pros.
Speaker 2 (04:43):
It's funny that you bring that up, because when I
was talking to Juwan Johnson, who does recently signed that
three year extension with the Saints, he mentioned how he's
not that big of a guy, and he changed from
receiver to tight end and he's going up against offensive
our defensive linemen that are voices side, and I'm looking
at him like, Joan, you look pretty big to me,
Like you're kind of a big guy. But yeah, it
(05:06):
is interesting though that even he views himself as smaller
for a tight end. When you're being asked to block
and hold the ground. When you look at the next
few tight ends that maybe coming off the board, the
Michigan's Colston Loveland, do you have Miami, He's Elijah Royo.
Those guys though have been slated as receiving tight ends.
Speaker 3 (05:29):
Yeah. Absolutely.
Speaker 4 (05:31):
You know, Loveland coming out of Michigan is one of
the more polished route runners at the position, and I
think the truth of the matter is when it comes
to him, when it comes to Tyler Warren, when it
comes to Elijah Royo, you probably don't want those guys
one on one with defensive ends, but typically you try
to avoid that being a part of your game plan
as an offense anyway. The bigger pieces can they contribute
(05:51):
for you as additional blockers in the run game, And
sometimes that's all about a willingness. Sometimes it's about just
being in position and having your number, your jersey numbers
on your back towards that running back to give them
a lane to be able to cut through and things
like that. And so I think those are the things
that you look for on tape and that you can
find with a Colson Loveland, even though he's considered more
(06:12):
of a receiving tight end, but he certainly maybe fits
a little bit more of the traditional what we would
call like a true why tight end, a guy that
lines up in line, that stays site to the formation,
but has the flexibility and versatility to be able to move.
Speaker 3 (06:25):
Around, while Warren and Arroyo would probably be more.
Speaker 4 (06:28):
Of what you'll typically refer to as kind of f
move tight ends guys, so you can move all around
the formation, do a bunch of different things with have
them do split split action releases out of the backfield
and all this other stuff. And so it's just kind
of this fun thing of like these different types of
chess pieces that you can now find at the tight
end position as that position continues to grow and the
talent continues to.
Speaker 3 (06:48):
Grow, and you know, from college to the pros and
all these things.
Speaker 4 (06:53):
But both those guys certainly more so receiving tight ends,
But I think you'll look for do they have what
it takes to be able to maybe grow a little
bit as a blocker so you can have him on
the field for more looks, more downs, more situations things
like that.
Speaker 2 (07:06):
LSU's Mason Taylor is somebody that has started to rise
in conversations around who and where you might draft him,
like who would go before him after him? He's kind
of on that three spot right now. Some people have
him around the fifth tight end that goes off the board,
but it does seem like he's starting to climb, they
(07:27):
have said. People have said, I hate the same thing
because it's like who is that? But it's been out
there that some people think he needs to put on
a little more size, and maybe that's something that they're
hoping that he can do, but they still like what
he brings to the table. I know you saw him
at his pro day at LSU. What do you like
about him?
Speaker 4 (07:46):
Yeah, he's another guy that I look at and I
would personally say, what more size?
Speaker 3 (07:50):
What do you mean? Like he's massive out there right right?
Speaker 4 (07:53):
And then he moved extremely well also right it comes in.
I think he's it's six foot four and he's in
the two four range. I think that's probably pretty solid
in terms.
Speaker 3 (08:03):
Of what it is that you're looking for at the position.
Speaker 4 (08:04):
Maybe you can bump them up into the two fifty
range more solidly. And we've got to remember sometimes too,
that where these guys work out where they like, the
weight at which they work out, the weight at which
they test, the weight at which they do their offseason
prep might be different than the weight that they actually
play at once they get to you know, game mode,
if you will, and things like that. So some of
that might be inherent to what his process is. But
(08:26):
running a four six five and you know, leaping and
giving you twenty eight bench reps and showing the strength
along with the athleticism and the explosion and things like that.
Speaker 3 (08:34):
I think that's the.
Speaker 4 (08:35):
Reason why you saw and why we're seeing all of
the they conversations around Mason Taylor really skyrocketing up boards,
Like he went from being a late day two guy
in the third round being somebody you might have to
invest in the second round in order to be able
to get and a bit of that is the attitude
that he brings.
Speaker 3 (08:53):
He's got an NFL.
Speaker 4 (08:54):
Pedigree as well, of course, and then him coming in
and being a guy that can you know, be that
fifty to fifty jump ball winner in the end zone,
go up there and be bigger than the safeties and
defensive backs that he might be lining up with, but
then be faster than the linebackers that he's going up
against in the middle of the field. That's really really
interesting and obviously something that teams would covet, along with
(09:16):
the fact that he is somebody that will go out
there and block and do some of the dirty work too.
Speaker 2 (09:21):
A lot of the prognosticators the mock drafts have said
that the Saints should select a tight end at some point.
You see that as a need for.
Speaker 4 (09:29):
Them, I think so, I mean, maybe not necessarily a need.
Like the three year deal to bring back Juwan Johnson
gives you kind of a place for your future to head,
and he's somebody that obviously this team is invested in
multiple times over at this point, and with this new
coaching staff and everything, I think that that's going to
all be able to play to Juwan Johnson's strengths a bit.
(09:50):
And so I think the other thing that you're looking at, though,
is that as of right now, foss Row is in
a contract year, Taysom Hills in a contract year, both
those guys coming off of.
Speaker 3 (09:58):
Injuries as well.
Speaker 4 (09:59):
So I think you're looking at just preparing for your
future at the position. If you're the New Orleans Saints,
I could see that being a logical thing to do,
just based on the situation of the entire the circumstance
rather or the entire position group as a whole. You've
got to be ready when you're going into these drafts
in twenty twenty five, You're not just looking for somebody
to help you in twenty twenty five, you're going, Okay,
(10:19):
what can this person be in twenty twenty six, twenty
twenty seven, twenty twenty eight, like, you're looking at that
whole expanse of the rookie contract, and I think that's
something that you could see this team potentially taking the
consideration at the position this year.
Speaker 2 (10:32):
As we move into later in the draft Day two, three, four,
heck even you know over the weekend Saturdays, rounds and
the Saints are needing somebody. Who are some of the
names we should be looking out for.
Speaker 4 (10:44):
Yeah, I've got three like late round guys that I
really like in this year's draft, one of which has
already been connected to New Orleans.
Speaker 3 (10:50):
So I'll start with him.
Speaker 4 (10:51):
Nebraska Cornhuskers tight end Thomas fedoniuh the second.
Speaker 3 (10:55):
He's the guy that comes in and has, you know.
Speaker 4 (10:57):
A little bit of the all around tag at tight end,
do a little of blocking, but is also not a
little bit of blocking, blocks very.
Speaker 3 (11:03):
Well he's in that Cornhusker's offense.
Speaker 4 (11:04):
Playing in Nebraska, you better be able to block, and
so you know him having that while also being a
guy that is, you know, a pretty good athlete and
a polished receiver with safe hands. I think that he's
one that I would watch for in Day three. Arondez Gads.
Then also the second. There's a lot of seconds in
this year's draft, not as many juniors. He's coming in
out of Syracuse. Probably he's a converted wide receiver. I'll
(11:26):
lad Juwan Johnson. So somebody that is of the type
and of the style of tight end that we know
this organization is comfortable with. Good route runner, good contested
catch guy, big hands, all those things. So I think
that those are the are reliable hands. I think those
are kind of the biggest attributes for him. Maybe not
so much a powerful blocker though, so maybe that's too
(11:47):
much of a leap late in the third, but I'm
relate in day three. But he's somebody that I really
like as well. And then I'll finish with Mitchell Evans.
Notre Dame has been a program that we've watched New Orleans,
can you know, go back to a few times over
the course of the recent past. There's something about that
pedigree that they like. When you have a head coach
like they have over there and coach Rima too, you
obviously want to be able to work with those guys.
(12:07):
But Mitchell Evans is an interesting one because if you
he's a watch the film guy, he doesn't have a
ton of stats, doesn't have a ton of things that
jump off the board at you when it comes to
a stat line. But when you watch him on tape
and you see that, you know, Notre Dame's offense just
didn't go to its tied end very much. You can
kind of see where he's working into the open areas
(12:28):
of the field. He's you know, running good routes. He's
you know, moving well and kind of the short area
quickness piece of the game where you're having a change
direction and things like that. He just shows you a
lot of promising things on tape while also again being
a willing blocker that I think that if you're looking
for somebody from a raw traits standpoint, even if the
stat line doesn't match up, he could be a really
interesting candidate for you, just in terms of what his
(12:50):
skill set.
Speaker 2 (12:50):
Looks like, sounds kind of like somebody that we grabbed
those undrafted and Dolln Holker, you know you can, got
some of those flashy moments and as a trait, he
stuck around. So Saints are are not afraid to try
out some guys that didn't get drafted, and they've done
very well with their undrafted free agents and a lot
(13:11):
of them have stuck around for a while. Since I
do have you and I'm the Saints Podcast, you know,
can you you want to just kind of give me
your thoughts on this whole Shador Sanders Staints draft in
a quarterback situation that seems that it has kind of
like taken over the last couple of days.
Speaker 3 (13:29):
Yeah.
Speaker 4 (13:30):
Man, it's the momentum around Schador has been so funny,
not so funny, but it's been so like remarkable to
see and it's been it's been really interesting to watch.
I would say that momentum wise, there's two big names
when it comes to quarterback for the New Orlean Saints draft,
and there's the consistent momentum and the sustained momentum which
has been felt like that's been old miss quarterback Jackson
Dark from the very beginning of the draft process, but
(13:51):
the sort of peak of momentum is absolutely here right
now when it comes to Colorado passes Shador Sanders.
Speaker 3 (13:58):
Look, I don't know if the.
Speaker 4 (14:00):
Saints are, you know, super in on your door or
super out on your door where they really sit on
the spectrum when it comes to him, But I will
say this, he's a really, really talented passer, and he's
a passer that is more accurate and more and maybe
shows better elite ball placement than he is a strong
armed passer. And so some people will develop feelings about
that in whichever way they want to go.
Speaker 3 (14:20):
But in the NFL, a mongst all of it.
Speaker 4 (14:22):
If you can throw at seventy yards all you want,
but if you can't throw at seventy yards and hit
your target, you're not doing me much much good as
an NFL organization.
Speaker 3 (14:30):
And so accuracy is all right. And so seeing him as.
Speaker 4 (14:34):
A potential for the New Orleans Saints at number nine,
I still think he goes off the board early. Whether
it's the Cleveland at two, New York at three, even
Las Vegas at six, I don't believe that any of
those three teams have long term solutions at the quarterback position,
even with some recent free agent acquisitions and even a
trade for the Raiders. I think again, you're not just
looking at twenty twenty five. You're looking at way longer
(14:56):
than that, especially with a quarterback in the first round.
Speaker 3 (14:58):
And so I could see any of those teams do it.
Speaker 4 (15:00):
I could see a team like the Pittsburgh Seelers trying
to trade up as well to be able to go
and get their guys. So I think it's a tall
task for New Orleans if they want to stick and
pick at nine and hope that sure Sanders is there.
Speaker 3 (15:10):
But if he is there, it's it's just good business.
Speaker 4 (15:13):
It's good business to go out and grab one of
the best quarterbacks in this year's.
Speaker 3 (15:17):
Draft without having to move around.
Speaker 4 (15:19):
If he's there for you, it's going to be really
tough for them to pass on him, for sure, unless
they feel really really good about another one of those
quarterbacks later on.
Speaker 2 (15:27):
Yeah, Jackson Dart was somebody that we've seen from their
IBN as somebody that was talking about is a good
fit for the Saints. Obviously they've been in contact over
the last couple of weeks as well. People reading into
maybe Alvin Kamara going up there visiting prime hanging out
with Craado doing going through practice. It's been funny to
(15:48):
see all of that, for sure, and it just, I
don't know, it makes you love the draft because you
never know what's going to happen and there's all these
little things. It's tea leaves. If people are over an
as it is, it comes. So it's gonna be a
lot of fun when we get there. Other needs that
you think the Saints have other than you know, we've
talked about possibly a tight end quarterback. It than's there
(16:11):
and it works.
Speaker 4 (16:13):
Yeah, I would probably say corner is a spot that
makes sense right like you know, you think about going
back to the trade deadline last year, Marshall Latimore traded
to the Washington Commanders to get sort of turned into
some pretty solid draft selections out of that. We'll see
what those draft selections turn into. But then Paulson Adiebo's
signing with the New York Giants, getting his next opportunity
(16:34):
over in the Big Apple, and then bringing in Isaac
Adam I think was an excellent move by New Orleans
in terms of bringing in a familiar face, somebody that
they know pretty well.
Speaker 3 (16:41):
All these other pieces, and that is also talented.
Speaker 4 (16:45):
But you know, I think that's a position where you
can continue to invest and it's not necessarily something you
have to invest in or a spot you have to
invest in in the first round. You could do that
in the second round with one of those third round picks. However,
it works, so there's a lot of different spots where
they can go there. I'm curious to say, if a
big bodied tight end excuse me, a big bodied wide receiver,
my apologies, is on the docket at all for New Orleans.
Speaker 3 (17:07):
They have these.
Speaker 4 (17:08):
You know, they've built a lot of speed in their
wide receiver room. But you wonder, like Kellen Moore when
we talked to him at the at the league meetings,
he kind of mentioned, you know, ideally, you want your
you know, some people want their wide receiver room to
kind of look like a basketball team. You want your center,
you want your point guard, you want your big bodied
guys and all these other things. But really, I mean,
when it comes to Kellen Moore, as he said over
and over again, he wants to identify the superpower of
(17:28):
the players that he does have. More than he's worried
about going out and trying to find the superpower in
you know, another player, but I would I would venture
to guess that if there's an opportunity to go and
get a big bodied guy with a superpower, that Kellen
Moore would know what to do with that player. So
I would certainly put kind of that mold of a
wide receiver on pick watch for the New Orleans Saints
during the draft as well.
Speaker 2 (17:49):
When you say superpower, I immediately think of defensive end
Cam Jordan because it feels like he has so many
the longevity that he's had, right, his personality, the positivity.
He was on Good Morning Football talking about how he
thinks that when this team is healthy, they could be
the second best team in the League's.
Speaker 4 (18:07):
I mean, look, this is what you need to do
in the NFL is to have that kind of attitude.
And I'm actually surprised to hear him say second best
team in the NFL. Usually players like well being the
best team in the NFL. But like, that's the attitude
that you have to have. If you're not going to
have that attitude, then what are you on the field for, right?
I Mean, I think that that's the kind of thing
that Cam has always been so brilliant at throughout his career,
(18:31):
and I mean going on year fifteen, Aaron, I don't
think I've done anything well for fifteen years at once.
Speaker 3 (18:35):
You know what I mean, fifteen years in a row.
Speaker 2 (18:37):
It's never happened consistently.
Speaker 4 (18:40):
I've done a lot of things not well for fifteen years,
that's for sure. But I mean, yeah, like that's something
that he's always been so great at is the belief
in the team. And when you look at who your
leaders are in this locker room, Cam's name is one
of the first names that pops up. And if Cam's
out there not believing in this team, then who why
anyone follows suit so great to see him be able to,
(19:03):
you know, willingly go out there have that belief, truly
know that he believes it too. Like we've talked to
Cam a lot, and we know that he truly believes.
Speaker 3 (19:10):
In what this team has.
Speaker 4 (19:12):
And I think that this is an organization that still
very much feels like injuries had a major impact last year,
and so staying healthy here going into twenty twenty five
would be such a big benefit for them, should that
be the case, to allow them maybe to be able
to maximize themselves in a way that they weren't necessarily
able to you know, down to their sixth seventh, this SAT,
and the other all throughout the season.
Speaker 2 (19:32):
Yeah, you may be right. Cam might have said top
two teams. He might not have positioned himself as second.
So I'll have to fact.
Speaker 4 (19:40):
Check that I was gonna say that.
Speaker 3 (19:45):
Cam.
Speaker 4 (19:45):
I'm surprised he didn't say the best, right right, not
even top Tam surprised he didn't say the best.
Speaker 2 (19:50):
But it is really good to hear the confidence that
he has in this team and the belief that he has,
and the players in the locker room and what they
can add in the draft, and then looking at what
Kellen Moore really wants to do as far as highlighting
each person's strengths and pulling that out, and Camp feels
like it's there and Callen feels like you can pull
it out of everybody, then it's going to be really
interesting to see what this team does look like in
(20:12):
the fall. So I'm looking forward to it and I
appreciate your insight as always.
Speaker 3 (20:17):
Of course, thanks for having me. Always pleasure to be
here with you.
Speaker 1 (20:22):
Thanks for listening to the New Orleans Saints podcast presented
by Seat Geek. Join us three times per week on
New Orleans Saints dot com, the Saints Mobile app, or
you can download the podcast on iTunes. We'll see you
next time right here on the New Orleans Saints Podcast,
presented by seat Geek
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