With Seahawks training camp underway, John Boyle and Jen Mueller discuss what they have seen from the team's first week of practice as well as president of football operations/general manager John Schneider's contract extension. Today's show: John Schneider extension (00:52), Seahawks defense (03:56), Demarcus Lawrence (05:45), Leonard Williams leadership (06:57), Seahawks culture (09:14), offensive line (10:13), Elijah Arroyo (16:00), and Ken Walker has looked great (19:00).
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
You're listening to the Seahawks insiders.
Speaker 2 (00:03):
At the coal line at the one, the hand off
the walker, he goes left side and.
Speaker 1 (00:06):
He's gonna get in touchdown.
Speaker 3 (00:09):
Shayhawks getting you ready for Seahawks football. Every Sunday Blitz
is come and throw inside.
Speaker 1 (00:15):
It's pickoff. Leo Williams coming there side. He's running like
a race horse. He's a big field turns up.
Speaker 3 (00:21):
Field at blockers.
Speaker 1 (00:22):
Holy smokes, are you kidding? Leo Williams. It's gonna take
it in for a touchdown.
Speaker 3 (00:29):
Shay Hawks presented by Delta, the official airline of the Seahawks.
Speaker 1 (00:33):
Now here's your host, Jen Mueller.
Speaker 2 (00:36):
It is the time of year you expect to be
maybe anticipating or projecting what we are gonna see in
the preseason heading into the regular season. There's actually a
bit of I don't know if we call it breaking news,
but certainly headline making news this week coming out of
Seahawks camp. John Boyle, I'm gonna let you do the honors.
What are we actually talking about here?
Speaker 4 (00:56):
Yeah, well, we sat down here, we planned this podcast
to talk about the first week of training camp, which
we will. But the big news right off the jump
is President of football Operations and general Manager John Schneider
signing a contract extension that runs through twenty thirty one.
Speaker 1 (01:11):
So that's a big deal.
Speaker 4 (01:12):
I mean, the architect of this thing, the guy who
you know, helped build it with Pete Carroll and then
oversaw this transition to Mike McDonald and launching what looks
to be a bright new era. So congrats to John
and his family. Really excited to see him sticking around
a long time.
Speaker 2 (01:27):
Well, it means we have to make sure that we
are up to date on all of the movie quotes.
Speaker 1 (01:31):
Yeah, luckily, and you never know when.
Speaker 2 (01:33):
He's going to come out of the blue with just
a conversation, which is awesome.
Speaker 4 (01:36):
Lucky for me. His tasteline up pretty well fine. So
you know, dumb nineties in.
Speaker 1 (01:41):
Two thousands comedies perfect.
Speaker 5 (01:44):
We love John.
Speaker 2 (01:44):
We love how open he is, the conversations that we have,
what he is willing to do building relationships inside the
building truly at all levels.
Speaker 5 (01:52):
It is not just about the players, it's not just
about his scouts.
Speaker 2 (01:55):
He really does pour into people from a football standpoint, John,
what is the message that is sent by this move?
Speaker 4 (02:01):
I mean, I think it just shows you they like
the direction. You know, ownership likes the direction of where
this is going. I mean, it was a really big
transition to move on from Pete Carroll and I'm sure
that was a tough choice for a lot of people involved,
John a chief amongst them, being a part of that. Now,
when that happens near the GM, the next move is massive.
Speaker 1 (02:20):
That's career defining.
Speaker 4 (02:21):
And he went out and got Mike MacDonald, who you know,
it's very early in Mike's career. There's a lot to
be done, but man, it sure looks promising what we've
seen so far. And it just shows between the recent
drafts some of the trades that have really helped stockpile
this roster with young talent. I think it was ESPN
just did a ranking of like top talent under the
age of twenty five. Seahaxfraord rank number two in the
league in that. So it's not just this is a
(02:43):
competitive team now, they've got a very bright future with
what john'staid well.
Speaker 2 (02:47):
And I think the other thing that is evident is
the jump that is being made from year one.
Speaker 1 (02:53):
To year two.
Speaker 2 (02:54):
Right sure, because you didn't have to do this move
right now. You could have waited until you got midway
through the season, after the season, There's a lot of
different points in time.
Speaker 5 (03:02):
You could have chosen that.
Speaker 2 (03:04):
What we have already seen, specifically from the defense, and
Mike McDonald's ability to do what he said he was
going to do and make that jump has to play
into this, as does the folks that they drafted to
fit into this system, or a guy like DeMarcus Lawrence
who you bring in who has already made an impact
without ever playing a regular season snap.
Speaker 4 (03:25):
Yeah, I mean that that defense, I think we're all
expecting with with but what Mike did last year, and
as you just mentioned, all that continuity, I mean, very
exciting to do what they can do. And I think
one other thing with John Schneider's contract is you see
this a lot around the league. Teams tend to like
to have a GM and a coach kind of tied
together contractually. And when you sign a new head coach
to a big long contract like they did with Mike,
(03:47):
his contract until today ran a lot longer than John,
so now you sort of get them back on a
similar track.
Speaker 2 (03:52):
Yeah, I think that it's huge. I love what it
does for the organization, and I truly do love how
this defense looks.
Speaker 5 (03:58):
Oh man, Holy cow, I don't look.
Speaker 2 (04:01):
This is the time of year that you're not actually
playing real snaps. Even when the pads come on, things
look really good, and then you get into a game
and it can look totally different.
Speaker 5 (04:10):
I'm not trying to over sell how good this defense is.
Speaker 2 (04:14):
I think what I'm trying to point out is the
difference in energy and continuity. Just understanding the scheme right,
you're not learning everything from scratch. You can tell a
huge difference in how fast the our practicing.
Speaker 4 (04:27):
Yeah, I mean, you go back to last year and
it's you have a new head coach installing a pretty
complicated scheme. You've got two new starting linebackers, two new
starting safeties, just a lot of change schematically and personnel wise,
which we'll get to the offense side, but it's kind
of it's flipped this year where the offense is that
unit now. But you've got ten of eleven starters back
from last year, or at least how they finished last year.
(04:48):
You add to Marcus learns that and they're just you know,
players are so much more confident in the scheme. Mike's
more comfortable in his own shoes. I mean, this is
a big job he took on last year. Now it's like, Okay,
I've done it for a year. I kind of He's
learned a lot, he's adjusted how he does think something.
So yeah, I mean I don't think you can just
look at a few practices in camp and say, oh, man,
this defense is going to be good. But what you
can do is look at they finished the season as
(05:08):
a top five defense for the last eight games of
the year, and now you build off that, and that's
where you think, man, this defense is gonna be get. Man,
the confidence they're playing with, the chatter we hear out there,
especially from those dbs, it's really fun to watch that work.
Speaker 2 (05:21):
Yeah, and Mike has gotten buy in in his own rights,
Oh for sure. I mean like he came in and
he earned it. And that is one of the hardest
things because there really wasn't anything broken about the culture here.
It's a great building to be in. It's a great
organization and great culture. So when you're trying to create
buy in, it's almost.
Speaker 1 (05:37):
Like, well why why, uh huh what?
Speaker 5 (05:39):
But he is he has done that.
Speaker 2 (05:40):
And I thought one of the interesting things when we
mentioned DeMarcus Lawrence's name. Mike was asked about him after
I don't know, first day of camp or second day
of camp, and he was like, you know, he's the
best guy to run drills at practice because he never
questions anything that we're going to ask you to do.
He's been in the league eleven years, so he could
very easily say I got you, Like, I'm good, I
(06:02):
do not need to just whatever this is right, But no.
Speaker 5 (06:05):
We have seen him be pretty active out there.
Speaker 4 (06:07):
Yeah, no, that's it was interesting to hear Mike say.
I think his phrase was he's the best drill player
I've ever seen. And it's like, you think a twelve
year vet, a four time pro bowler, guy's only's done, Mike,
you know, okay, it's the first twenty minutes of practice.
Do I really need to put a lot into this,
But he's been you know, he just gets after it
every rep.
Speaker 1 (06:23):
And the example that s that's for young guys.
Speaker 4 (06:26):
I talked to boy Mafe, I talked to Derek all
about this, and like, you see a guy with his
resume doing that, it shows you what it takes to
have that kind of career in the league.
Speaker 2 (06:34):
Yeah, and what both of those guys ultimately said about
watching is you just have to come out with intent.
You have to know what you're trying to accomplish in
the drill and then really just go out there with intent.
Speaker 5 (06:44):
And I will give Mike props because I've.
Speaker 2 (06:47):
Never once heard like drill player, Like, there's a lot
of things that we hear over and over.
Speaker 1 (06:52):
That was a phrase. Yeah, Oh that was a good one.
Speaker 5 (06:56):
That was a good one.
Speaker 2 (06:57):
Leonard Williams has been unbl Like we know that Leo
is among the best, but the number of times he's
pulled aside young.
Speaker 1 (07:06):
Guys, Yeah, on both sides of the ball.
Speaker 2 (07:07):
I was just about to say, because I really liked
watching him and Derek Hall the other day during pass
rush drills and to watch, you know, they're watching the
sets go in front of them, and then they'd step
back and they'd formulate their game plan and then watch
a couple more and then be like, no, you know,
here we go. Like it was really fun. Yeah, to
watch those two kind of scheme off each other. And
then the flip side of that is he's pulling grays
(07:28):
Abel aside. He's getting one on one reps with the
first round pick, the presumed starter at left guard and
Gray talked about this yes years, like he didn't come
to the league expecting to be mentored by a star
defensive linement. It's like, yeah, you expect your own position
group to help you out. But that's you know, and
Gray is able to talk about this. It kind of
speaks to the culture here.
Speaker 4 (07:48):
The way they operate is like, yes, we're going against
each other in this drill. It's offense defense right now,
but ultimately we're all on the same team. We're all
heading in the same direction. So if Leo can spot
things to help Grey's able be a better guard, he's doing.
Speaker 1 (07:59):
That and one other you know, just we'en talking about Leo.
Speaker 4 (08:02):
All the different kind of leadership we've seen a funny
one I enjoyed yesterday. You know, things get heated when
the pads go on. You get these old skirmishes and
nothing big, but guys kind of getting each other's face.
And it was it was Leo that was in there
and just Bear hugging one of his teammates and dragging
him out of the pile.
Speaker 1 (08:15):
Just you know, a.
Speaker 4 (08:16):
Different kind of veteran leadership, but important nonetheless to say
to the young team.
Speaker 1 (08:19):
It's like, all right, let's cool this off.
Speaker 5 (08:21):
Right, And also he did it with a smile.
Speaker 1 (08:23):
It was actually kind of funny. He was laughing, he
was smiling.
Speaker 2 (08:27):
It is part of the intensity that happens during training camp.
I think I was one of the ones that was
asking questions of Grey's abel and like, did you expect
to get help at all?
Speaker 1 (08:36):
Right?
Speaker 5 (08:36):
You know, and to hear.
Speaker 2 (08:38):
Him say, I know, it's not like that. Everywhere in
the league. We take for granted because we see it
all the time, or we know that Leo is a
high quality guy, or we're getting to learn some of
these other ones. But it really is impressive. You were
only gonna go so far as your weakest link. Yeah,
and this team has done an amazing job of being
(09:00):
on the spot with mentoring and coaching each other.
Speaker 4 (09:02):
And I think we can tie this back to what
we open the podcast with, which is John Schneider, what
he and Pete Carroll built together, and now what he
and Mike McDonald are building.
Speaker 1 (09:09):
Like it is.
Speaker 4 (09:10):
You hear it from players all the time who are
new here, who come from other teams. The culture here
is something special, and I mean it's really I mean,
you could probably trace it back all the way to
Paul Allen buying the team and bringing Mike Holgrid in
here like it's we've enjoyed now two and a half
decades of almost completely sustained success, a lot of stability,
(09:30):
and a lot of that does go to the culture here.
Speaker 2 (09:33):
The one thing that has not felt very stable for
the Seahawks is the offensive line. We'll get into that
conversation right after a word from our presenting sponsor.
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Speaker 2 (10:13):
We know what the left side of the offensive line
looks like. That has really never been in question. After
drafting Gray's Abel, so you were going to see Charles
Cross and Zabel next to each other. We know that
Abe Lucas is going to start at right tackle and
by the way, but just fantastic to see him out
there from the beginning of camp.
Speaker 5 (10:33):
She looks like a big step, Yes, from day one.
Speaker 2 (10:37):
Now here's what we don't know who's playing in between
that ga, who's playing in between that crew. Yes, So
we've got a lot of rotations that are happening at practice.
So olu Alua Timmy would be the returning starter at center.
He is seeing time there, but so is Jalen Sundell.
And actually we're seeing Christian Haynes with a little bit
of work there. Now on right guard, we are seeing
(11:00):
a three way battle almost with those same three guys.
You've got Haines, Sundell and Anthony Bradford getting reps at
right guard. What do we make of the fact that
the rotation exists at both of those positions.
Speaker 4 (11:16):
Yeah, and it's interesting adding kind of moving Haines in
Sundel to both. It does complicate a little bit because
coming into camp, I think we thought it's gonna be
Oulu and Sundell at center. It's gonna be Bradford and Haines.
Maybe Setola may also at right guard. He's so far
just been sticking on the left side, but now you
have Haines in Sundell crossing over different positions. So it
just creates this interesting element both in terms of who's
(11:39):
going on the starting jobs, but then also you know
depth backup jobs, and you have guys working two positions,
so I mean, rotation wise, it's been pretty pretty even
so far. There's no clear favorite at either spot. I
think probably if there is one, I think it's Olu
at center seems to be the leading guy there right now,
but certainly not settling Guard just seems wide open. So
(12:00):
really interesting to see how that plays out. You know,
is there a situation where you settle on one position
first and that let's say I'm not saying this is
the case, but if Olu is the center and you
decide that, does that change accompetitionent Guard if Sundell's more
available there, I don't know.
Speaker 1 (12:14):
We have to see how that goes. But it's McDonald's
talked about this.
Speaker 4 (12:17):
It's kind of this balance of you want to make
sure you get it right, but you want to build
start building that continuity too, like how long do you
let it play out versus settling on a couple guys.
Speaker 2 (12:25):
Right, And I've had a couple of folks ask me
if this is some sort of referendum on Olu, Right,
Was he not good last year?
Speaker 5 (12:33):
Do they not like him?
Speaker 2 (12:34):
I actually think it is more to do with having
a new offensive coordinator and a new system. Yeah, you're
just trying to see what your best fit is. It's
not that they don't like Olu. Jalen Sundel has some
significant playing time in this sort of system. They are
asking offensive linemen to do something different than what they
did last year. So to me, I think you might
(12:55):
have had some sort of rotation with a new offensive
course anyway.
Speaker 1 (13:00):
Yeah, for sure.
Speaker 4 (13:01):
I mean you totally overhaul the scheme, new coaching staff,
different schemes and different coaches are gonna kind of call
for a different player there. And also, like you gotta
look at the situation last year of like you're not
going to open up a competition when your starting center
retires unexpectedly midseason. You got to make a choice and
get ready for a game that week. And Olu was
(13:22):
a guy who had had the starter's reps in training camp.
He was preparing for the starter before Connor Williams got
signed in August. So it's it's not really a fair
comparison to say, well, if he was a starter last year,
why they competed out with If you knew going into
if you had had a four week runway to Connor
Williams retirement, you might have let that competition play out.
Speaker 1 (13:41):
But you just you can't do that in that situation.
Speaker 2 (13:44):
And again, I do think that they're asking their alignment
to do something just a little bit different. Right, You're
gonna have to run a little bit more, You're gonna
be stretching a little bit more. All of this is
to open lanes. And I know that people want to
look at the number of sacks that were allowed last year.
Speaker 5 (13:57):
It was fifty of.
Speaker 2 (13:58):
Gino seventeen games. It's too many. You also did not
have a balanced offense. You were behind a lot, You
were in third and longs a lot. The run game
wasn't there, and I would say you were probably trying
to find an identity all the way through the end
of the season. This is not just an offensive line issue,
(14:22):
number challenge, whatever it is. So I just want to
make sure that that storyline is not just about the
offensive line. The fact that you have an established NFL
offensive coordinator makes a huge difference, and we're hearing it
in the way guys talk about the run game. It
makes a huge difference in the conversation. So let's stop
pulling out just the offensive line, because that was not
(14:43):
the only problem with.
Speaker 1 (14:44):
The offense lest exactly.
Speaker 4 (14:46):
I mean the look everybody on that line would say
we could have done better.
Speaker 1 (14:49):
That's their nature.
Speaker 4 (14:49):
But the scheme did them no favors in terms of
as you said, there are so many position words, is
obvious passing, so much shotgun, so much drop back. It
put a lot of string on those guys in the
offensive linement. You're never gonna find an offensive lineman who
doesn't want to like, go downhill, run the ball, get
on the move. And that's what this offense is going
to do. And it's you know, we heard it from
(15:10):
Abe Lucas in the offseason. We heard it from Gray's
Al talked about run the damn ball. I mean, that's
this is who they're gonna be is and it's a
proven scheme. We've seen variants of the Shanahan offense you know,
for decades now that they're based in this wide zone
running scheme, and that sets everything else plays off of that.
So I think you're gonna see, you know, if they
can run the ball, which I think they're very well
(15:32):
equipped to do, that's gonna help take so much pressure
off the quarterback.
Speaker 2 (15:36):
Well, and we've seen them do that in practice. They're
not saying one thing and doing another exactly. This is
a number of times a fullback has been involved as
a lead blocker or somebody who is you know, kind
of going out there to open up.
Speaker 1 (15:48):
It's significant two tight ends all the time.
Speaker 2 (15:50):
Well, so that's what I was going to say. People
are looking at and they're like, where are your playmakers?
Because you don't have DK in there anymore, right, and
so where are you going to get the ball downfield?
Speaker 5 (15:58):
I don't know, your rookie Titan, it's pretty good. Sure
like I'll take that.
Speaker 1 (16:02):
I mean that's when they drafted Arroyo.
Speaker 4 (16:04):
That was I think it was John Scheiner, maybe is
Mike mcdaal made the comment like he can do stuff
like an X receiver. I mean, he's got that speed
and downfield availability.
Speaker 1 (16:12):
So if you get a.
Speaker 4 (16:13):
Tight end who can stress a defense like that, that's
gonna I mean a he'll make plays, but that will
help open things up for your.
Speaker 1 (16:19):
Receivers as well.
Speaker 2 (16:20):
And I know that part of the conversation is how
much could he help you blocking? Right, I don't know
how much that matters, because to your point, if you've
got two tight ends on the field, a full back
on the field, and you know Cooper cup or Jayas said,
the amount of thinking the defense has to do, I
don't know how much that actually matters because there's going
(16:42):
to be a lot of confusion and a lot of
options for Sam Darnold to get the ball out.
Speaker 1 (16:46):
Yeah, for sure.
Speaker 4 (16:47):
I mean, look, any NFL time is going to have
to block some and I'm sure he'll work on that
and make that part of his game, but that's not
going to be the primary thing they're asking of him.
And I mean your point with with that offense, like
two tight ends we hear by from coaches on both
sides of all the time, like that puts a lot
of strain on defense because if it's a bunch of
receivers spread out, you kind of know what's coming. You
(17:07):
can play lighter, you can add those extra defensive backs,
but you have two tight ends. Aj Barner's proven to
be a really good pass catcher, and then the kind
of big play ability to big play ability Arroyo presents
like that's going to put some strain on defenses of
how do we you know, what personnel do we send
out for this?
Speaker 2 (17:24):
Right now, I will say this, this is the same
caveat that I would have said, or I did say
last year with the defense. Mike McDonald's defense is very complicated.
This offense is very complicated in terms of what that
play call sounds like and what your responsibilities are. This
looks one way at training camp, and this is part
(17:45):
of why defense is won the day a few more
times so far that we have seen from the offense.
Right the offense is still working on install defenses, working
on that next step. I do wonder what it looks
like in game situations, right, I wonder if all of
the learning, like how long it truly takes to absorb.
Cooper Cup helps a lot having been in the system,
(18:06):
But I do wonder how long before we see the returns?
Speaker 4 (18:09):
Yeah, I mean there's gonna be inevitably some growing pains.
You never want that, but it's I mean, we saw it,
as you said with the defense last year, is you
can't overhauled this much and just have it go perfect
from week one.
Speaker 1 (18:20):
It's but it is you bring in.
Speaker 4 (18:22):
You can minimize those groen pains for a number of ways,
one of which is, it's not a new scheme with
a bunch of different coaches who don't know right. It's
a bunch of guys who came here together from New Orleans.
And again it's a scheme that in there's tweaks to it,
but very similar variants of the scheme are being run
all over the league. So a lot of these guys,
whether it's Cooper Cup in LA, whether it's Donald working
(18:45):
with Kubiak and San Francisco and then Kevin O'Connell and Minnesota, like,
they've seen some version of this offense. So I don't
think it's as drastic as maybe it could be if
it was some brand new scheme to all these guys.
Speaker 5 (18:57):
And if you're on the ball, guess what, Yeah that
the ball so much it still work?
Speaker 1 (19:02):
Yeah, yeah, I do like that.
Speaker 3 (19:05):
You.
Speaker 4 (19:05):
Ken Walker, by the way, has looked fantastic, look great,
just so fast and explosive.
Speaker 1 (19:12):
I'm excited about him.
Speaker 5 (19:13):
I know I try not to make I try not,
but yes I am excited.
Speaker 4 (19:19):
Not even August yet, They haven't you know they've been
pads twice.
Speaker 1 (19:24):
There's just so many.
Speaker 2 (19:25):
But if you're not excited right now, John, then when
else are you going to be excited?
Speaker 1 (19:30):
Exactly? It's too early for pessimism.
Speaker 5 (19:33):
Well that's not maybe what national media members.
Speaker 2 (19:36):
One thing that I wo say within the building one
hundred percent, it makes sense to me that our next
logical check in would be after we actually see them
on the field in a game, right, is that when
we should rejoin and talk to the peeps again and
see w'd be interesting.
Speaker 4 (19:50):
Pete Carrol, I know Geno coming down about that there.
I know first preseason game. It'd be great to see
him out.
Speaker 5 (19:58):
I wonder if he would just maybe.
Speaker 4 (20:00):
It's just fun, don't run out there and getting nice
ovation from the crowd. A few series, some off mid series.
Speaker 5 (20:07):
Yeah, that would be interesting, and we'll see what Pete
has up.
Speaker 1 (20:10):
We'll sleep.
Speaker 2 (20:11):
Maybe we'll check you out on former Seahawks and an
upcoming episode. But I think for now that'll do it
for this edition of the Seahawks Insiders Podcast
You're listening to the Seahawks insiders.
Speaker 2 (00:03):
At the coal line at the one, the hand off
the walker, he goes left side and.
Speaker 1 (00:06):
He's gonna get in touchdown.
Speaker 3 (00:09):
Shayhawks getting you ready for Seahawks football. Every Sunday Blitz
is come and throw inside.
Speaker 1 (00:15):
It's pickoff. Leo Williams coming there side. He's running like
a race horse. He's a big field turns up.
Speaker 3 (00:21):
Field at blockers.
Speaker 1 (00:22):
Holy smokes, are you kidding? Leo Williams. It's gonna take
it in for a touchdown.
Speaker 3 (00:29):
Shay Hawks presented by Delta, the official airline of the Seahawks.
Speaker 1 (00:33):
Now here's your host, Jen Mueller.
Speaker 2 (00:36):
It is the time of year you expect to be
maybe anticipating or projecting what we are gonna see in
the preseason heading into the regular season. There's actually a
bit of I don't know if we call it breaking news,
but certainly headline making news this week coming out of
Seahawks camp. John Boyle, I'm gonna let you do the honors.
What are we actually talking about here?
Speaker 4 (00:56):
Yeah, well, we sat down here, we planned this podcast
to talk about the first week of training camp, which
we will. But the big news right off the jump
is President of football Operations and general Manager John Schneider
signing a contract extension that runs through twenty thirty one.
Speaker 1 (01:11):
So that's a big deal.
Speaker 4 (01:12):
I mean, the architect of this thing, the guy who
you know, helped build it with Pete Carroll and then
oversaw this transition to Mike McDonald and launching what looks
to be a bright new era. So congrats to John
and his family. Really excited to see him sticking around
a long time.
Speaker 2 (01:27):
Well, it means we have to make sure that we
are up to date on all of the movie quotes.
Speaker 1 (01:31):
Yeah, luckily, and you never know when.
Speaker 2 (01:33):
He's going to come out of the blue with just
a conversation, which is awesome.
Speaker 4 (01:36):
Lucky for me. His tasteline up pretty well fine. So
you know, dumb nineties in.
Speaker 1 (01:41):
Two thousands comedies perfect.
Speaker 5 (01:44):
We love John.
Speaker 2 (01:44):
We love how open he is, the conversations that we have,
what he is willing to do building relationships inside the
building truly at all levels.
Speaker 5 (01:52):
It is not just about the players, it's not just
about his scouts.
Speaker 2 (01:55):
He really does pour into people from a football standpoint, John,
what is the message that is sent by this move?
Speaker 4 (02:01):
I mean, I think it just shows you they like
the direction. You know, ownership likes the direction of where
this is going. I mean, it was a really big
transition to move on from Pete Carroll and I'm sure
that was a tough choice for a lot of people involved,
John a chief amongst them, being a part of that. Now,
when that happens near the GM, the next move is massive.
Speaker 1 (02:20):
That's career defining.
Speaker 4 (02:21):
And he went out and got Mike MacDonald, who you know,
it's very early in Mike's career. There's a lot to
be done, but man, it sure looks promising what we've
seen so far. And it just shows between the recent
drafts some of the trades that have really helped stockpile
this roster with young talent. I think it was ESPN
just did a ranking of like top talent under the
age of twenty five. Seahaxfraord rank number two in the
league in that. So it's not just this is a
(02:43):
competitive team now, they've got a very bright future with
what john'staid well.
Speaker 2 (02:47):
And I think the other thing that is evident is
the jump that is being made from year one.
Speaker 1 (02:53):
To year two.
Speaker 2 (02:54):
Right sure, because you didn't have to do this move
right now. You could have waited until you got midway
through the season, after the season, There's a lot of
different points in time.
Speaker 5 (03:02):
You could have chosen that.
Speaker 2 (03:04):
What we have already seen, specifically from the defense, and
Mike McDonald's ability to do what he said he was
going to do and make that jump has to play
into this, as does the folks that they drafted to
fit into this system, or a guy like DeMarcus Lawrence
who you bring in who has already made an impact
without ever playing a regular season snap.
Speaker 4 (03:25):
Yeah, I mean that that defense, I think we're all
expecting with with but what Mike did last year, and
as you just mentioned, all that continuity, I mean, very
exciting to do what they can do. And I think
one other thing with John Schneider's contract is you see
this a lot around the league. Teams tend to like
to have a GM and a coach kind of tied
together contractually. And when you sign a new head coach
to a big long contract like they did with Mike,
(03:47):
his contract until today ran a lot longer than John,
so now you sort of get them back on a
similar track.
Speaker 2 (03:52):
Yeah, I think that it's huge. I love what it
does for the organization, and I truly do love how
this defense looks.
Speaker 5 (03:58):
Oh man, Holy cow, I don't look.
Speaker 2 (04:01):
This is the time of year that you're not actually
playing real snaps. Even when the pads come on, things
look really good, and then you get into a game
and it can look totally different.
Speaker 5 (04:10):
I'm not trying to over sell how good this defense is.
Speaker 2 (04:14):
I think what I'm trying to point out is the
difference in energy and continuity. Just understanding the scheme right,
you're not learning everything from scratch. You can tell a
huge difference in how fast the our practicing.
Speaker 4 (04:27):
Yeah, I mean, you go back to last year and
it's you have a new head coach installing a pretty
complicated scheme. You've got two new starting linebackers, two new
starting safeties, just a lot of change schematically and personnel wise,
which we'll get to the offense side, but it's kind
of it's flipped this year where the offense is that
unit now. But you've got ten of eleven starters back
from last year, or at least how they finished last year.
(04:48):
You add to Marcus learns that and they're just you know,
players are so much more confident in the scheme. Mike's
more comfortable in his own shoes. I mean, this is
a big job he took on last year. Now it's like, Okay,
I've done it for a year. I kind of He's
learned a lot, he's adjusted how he does think something.
So yeah, I mean I don't think you can just
look at a few practices in camp and say, oh, man,
this defense is going to be good. But what you
can do is look at they finished the season as
(05:08):
a top five defense for the last eight games of
the year, and now you build off that, and that's
where you think, man, this defense is gonna be get. Man,
the confidence they're playing with, the chatter we hear out there,
especially from those dbs, it's really fun to watch that work.
Speaker 2 (05:21):
Yeah, and Mike has gotten buy in in his own rights,
Oh for sure. I mean like he came in and
he earned it. And that is one of the hardest
things because there really wasn't anything broken about the culture here.
It's a great building to be in. It's a great
organization and great culture. So when you're trying to create
buy in, it's almost.
Speaker 1 (05:37):
Like, well why why, uh huh what?
Speaker 5 (05:39):
But he is he has done that.
Speaker 2 (05:40):
And I thought one of the interesting things when we
mentioned DeMarcus Lawrence's name. Mike was asked about him after
I don't know, first day of camp or second day
of camp, and he was like, you know, he's the
best guy to run drills at practice because he never
questions anything that we're going to ask you to do.
He's been in the league eleven years, so he could
very easily say I got you, Like, I'm good, I
(06:02):
do not need to just whatever this is right, But no.
Speaker 5 (06:05):
We have seen him be pretty active out there.
Speaker 4 (06:07):
Yeah, no, that's it was interesting to hear Mike say.
I think his phrase was he's the best drill player
I've ever seen. And it's like, you think a twelve
year vet, a four time pro bowler, guy's only's done, Mike,
you know, okay, it's the first twenty minutes of practice.
Do I really need to put a lot into this,
But he's been you know, he just gets after it
every rep.
Speaker 1 (06:23):
And the example that s that's for young guys.
Speaker 4 (06:26):
I talked to boy Mafe, I talked to Derek all
about this, and like, you see a guy with his
resume doing that, it shows you what it takes to
have that kind of career in the league.
Speaker 2 (06:34):
Yeah, and what both of those guys ultimately said about
watching is you just have to come out with intent.
You have to know what you're trying to accomplish in
the drill and then really just go out there with intent.
Speaker 5 (06:44):
And I will give Mike props because I've.
Speaker 2 (06:47):
Never once heard like drill player, Like, there's a lot
of things that we hear over and over.
Speaker 1 (06:52):
That was a phrase. Yeah, Oh that was a good one.
Speaker 5 (06:56):
That was a good one.
Speaker 2 (06:57):
Leonard Williams has been unbl Like we know that Leo
is among the best, but the number of times he's
pulled aside young.
Speaker 1 (07:06):
Guys, Yeah, on both sides of the ball.
Speaker 2 (07:07):
I was just about to say, because I really liked
watching him and Derek Hall the other day during pass
rush drills and to watch, you know, they're watching the
sets go in front of them, and then they'd step
back and they'd formulate their game plan and then watch
a couple more and then be like, no, you know,
here we go. Like it was really fun. Yeah, to
watch those two kind of scheme off each other. And
then the flip side of that is he's pulling grays
(07:28):
Abel aside. He's getting one on one reps with the
first round pick, the presumed starter at left guard and
Gray talked about this yes years, like he didn't come
to the league expecting to be mentored by a star
defensive linement. It's like, yeah, you expect your own position
group to help you out. But that's you know, and
Gray is able to talk about this. It kind of
speaks to the culture here.
Speaker 4 (07:48):
The way they operate is like, yes, we're going against
each other in this drill. It's offense defense right now,
but ultimately we're all on the same team. We're all
heading in the same direction. So if Leo can spot
things to help Grey's able be a better guard, he's doing.
Speaker 1 (07:59):
That and one other you know, just we'en talking about Leo.
Speaker 4 (08:02):
All the different kind of leadership we've seen a funny
one I enjoyed yesterday. You know, things get heated when
the pads go on. You get these old skirmishes and
nothing big, but guys kind of getting each other's face.
And it was it was Leo that was in there
and just Bear hugging one of his teammates and dragging
him out of the pile.
Speaker 1 (08:15):
Just you know, a.
Speaker 4 (08:16):
Different kind of veteran leadership, but important nonetheless to say
to the young team.
Speaker 1 (08:19):
It's like, all right, let's cool this off.
Speaker 5 (08:21):
Right, And also he did it with a smile.
Speaker 1 (08:23):
It was actually kind of funny. He was laughing, he
was smiling.
Speaker 2 (08:27):
It is part of the intensity that happens during training camp.
I think I was one of the ones that was
asking questions of Grey's abel and like, did you expect
to get help at all?
Speaker 1 (08:36):
Right?
Speaker 5 (08:36):
You know, and to hear.
Speaker 2 (08:38):
Him say, I know, it's not like that. Everywhere in
the league. We take for granted because we see it
all the time, or we know that Leo is a
high quality guy, or we're getting to learn some of
these other ones. But it really is impressive. You were
only gonna go so far as your weakest link. Yeah,
and this team has done an amazing job of being
(09:00):
on the spot with mentoring and coaching each other.
Speaker 4 (09:02):
And I think we can tie this back to what
we open the podcast with, which is John Schneider, what
he and Pete Carroll built together, and now what he
and Mike McDonald are building.
Speaker 1 (09:09):
Like it is.
Speaker 4 (09:10):
You hear it from players all the time who are
new here, who come from other teams. The culture here
is something special, and I mean it's really I mean,
you could probably trace it back all the way to
Paul Allen buying the team and bringing Mike Holgrid in
here like it's we've enjoyed now two and a half
decades of almost completely sustained success, a lot of stability,
(09:30):
and a lot of that does go to the culture here.
Speaker 2 (09:33):
The one thing that has not felt very stable for
the Seahawks is the offensive line. We'll get into that
conversation right after a word from our presenting sponsor.
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Speaker 2 (10:13):
We know what the left side of the offensive line
looks like. That has really never been in question. After
drafting Gray's Abel, so you were going to see Charles
Cross and Zabel next to each other. We know that
Abe Lucas is going to start at right tackle and
by the way, but just fantastic to see him out
there from the beginning of camp.
Speaker 5 (10:33):
She looks like a big step, Yes, from day one.
Speaker 2 (10:37):
Now here's what we don't know who's playing in between
that ga, who's playing in between that crew. Yes, So
we've got a lot of rotations that are happening at practice.
So olu Alua Timmy would be the returning starter at center.
He is seeing time there, but so is Jalen Sundell.
And actually we're seeing Christian Haynes with a little bit
of work there. Now on right guard, we are seeing
(11:00):
a three way battle almost with those same three guys.
You've got Haines, Sundell and Anthony Bradford getting reps at
right guard. What do we make of the fact that
the rotation exists at both of those positions.
Speaker 4 (11:16):
Yeah, and it's interesting adding kind of moving Haines in
Sundel to both. It does complicate a little bit because
coming into camp, I think we thought it's gonna be
Oulu and Sundell at center. It's gonna be Bradford and Haines.
Maybe Setola may also at right guard. He's so far
just been sticking on the left side, but now you
have Haines in Sundell crossing over different positions. So it
just creates this interesting element both in terms of who's
(11:39):
going on the starting jobs, but then also you know
depth backup jobs, and you have guys working two positions,
so I mean, rotation wise, it's been pretty pretty even
so far. There's no clear favorite at either spot. I
think probably if there is one, I think it's Olu
at center seems to be the leading guy there right now,
but certainly not settling Guard just seems wide open. So
(12:00):
really interesting to see how that plays out. You know,
is there a situation where you settle on one position
first and that let's say I'm not saying this is
the case, but if Olu is the center and you
decide that, does that change accompetitionent Guard if Sundell's more
available there, I don't know.
Speaker 1 (12:14):
We have to see how that goes. But it's McDonald's
talked about this.
Speaker 4 (12:17):
It's kind of this balance of you want to make
sure you get it right, but you want to build
start building that continuity too, like how long do you
let it play out versus settling on a couple guys.
Speaker 2 (12:25):
Right, And I've had a couple of folks ask me
if this is some sort of referendum on Olu, Right,
Was he not good last year?
Speaker 5 (12:33):
Do they not like him?
Speaker 2 (12:34):
I actually think it is more to do with having
a new offensive coordinator and a new system. Yeah, you're
just trying to see what your best fit is. It's
not that they don't like Olu. Jalen Sundel has some
significant playing time in this sort of system. They are
asking offensive linemen to do something different than what they
did last year. So to me, I think you might
(12:55):
have had some sort of rotation with a new offensive
course anyway.
Speaker 1 (13:00):
Yeah, for sure.
Speaker 4 (13:01):
I mean you totally overhaul the scheme, new coaching staff,
different schemes and different coaches are gonna kind of call
for a different player there. And also, like you gotta
look at the situation last year of like you're not
going to open up a competition when your starting center
retires unexpectedly midseason. You got to make a choice and
get ready for a game that week. And Olu was
(13:22):
a guy who had had the starter's reps in training camp.
He was preparing for the starter before Connor Williams got
signed in August. So it's it's not really a fair
comparison to say, well, if he was a starter last year,
why they competed out with If you knew going into
if you had had a four week runway to Connor
Williams retirement, you might have let that competition play out.
Speaker 1 (13:41):
But you just you can't do that in that situation.
Speaker 2 (13:44):
And again, I do think that they're asking their alignment
to do something just a little bit different. Right, You're
gonna have to run a little bit more, You're gonna
be stretching a little bit more. All of this is
to open lanes. And I know that people want to
look at the number of sacks that were allowed last year.
Speaker 5 (13:57):
It was fifty of.
Speaker 2 (13:58):
Gino seventeen games. It's too many. You also did not
have a balanced offense. You were behind a lot, You
were in third and longs a lot. The run game
wasn't there, and I would say you were probably trying
to find an identity all the way through the end
of the season. This is not just an offensive line issue,
(14:22):
number challenge, whatever it is. So I just want to
make sure that that storyline is not just about the
offensive line. The fact that you have an established NFL
offensive coordinator makes a huge difference, and we're hearing it
in the way guys talk about the run game. It
makes a huge difference in the conversation. So let's stop
pulling out just the offensive line, because that was not
(14:43):
the only problem with.
Speaker 1 (14:44):
The offense lest exactly.
Speaker 4 (14:46):
I mean the look everybody on that line would say
we could have done better.
Speaker 1 (14:49):
That's their nature.
Speaker 4 (14:49):
But the scheme did them no favors in terms of
as you said, there are so many position words, is
obvious passing, so much shotgun, so much drop back. It
put a lot of string on those guys in the
offensive linement. You're never gonna find an offensive lineman who
doesn't want to like, go downhill, run the ball, get
on the move. And that's what this offense is going
to do. And it's you know, we heard it from
(15:10):
Abe Lucas in the offseason. We heard it from Gray's
Al talked about run the damn ball. I mean, that's
this is who they're gonna be is and it's a
proven scheme. We've seen variants of the Shanahan offense you know,
for decades now that they're based in this wide zone
running scheme, and that sets everything else plays off of that.
So I think you're gonna see, you know, if they
can run the ball, which I think they're very well
(15:32):
equipped to do, that's gonna help take so much pressure
off the quarterback.
Speaker 2 (15:36):
Well, and we've seen them do that in practice. They're
not saying one thing and doing another exactly. This is
a number of times a fullback has been involved as
a lead blocker or somebody who is you know, kind
of going out there to open up.
Speaker 1 (15:48):
It's significant two tight ends all the time.
Speaker 2 (15:50):
Well, so that's what I was going to say. People
are looking at and they're like, where are your playmakers?
Because you don't have DK in there anymore, right, and
so where are you going to get the ball downfield?
Speaker 5 (15:58):
I don't know, your rookie Titan, it's pretty good. Sure
like I'll take that.
Speaker 1 (16:02):
I mean that's when they drafted Arroyo.
Speaker 4 (16:04):
That was I think it was John Scheiner, maybe is
Mike mcdaal made the comment like he can do stuff
like an X receiver. I mean, he's got that speed
and downfield availability.
Speaker 1 (16:12):
So if you get a.
Speaker 4 (16:13):
Tight end who can stress a defense like that, that's
gonna I mean a he'll make plays, but that will
help open things up for your.
Speaker 1 (16:19):
Receivers as well.
Speaker 2 (16:20):
And I know that part of the conversation is how
much could he help you blocking? Right, I don't know
how much that matters, because to your point, if you've
got two tight ends on the field, a full back
on the field, and you know Cooper cup or Jayas said,
the amount of thinking the defense has to do, I
don't know how much that actually matters because there's going
(16:42):
to be a lot of confusion and a lot of
options for Sam Darnold to get the ball out.
Speaker 1 (16:46):
Yeah, for sure.
Speaker 4 (16:47):
I mean, look, any NFL time is going to have
to block some and I'm sure he'll work on that
and make that part of his game, but that's not
going to be the primary thing they're asking of him.
And I mean your point with with that offense, like
two tight ends we hear by from coaches on both
sides of all the time, like that puts a lot
of strain on defense because if it's a bunch of
receivers spread out, you kind of know what's coming. You
(17:07):
can play lighter, you can add those extra defensive backs,
but you have two tight ends. Aj Barner's proven to
be a really good pass catcher, and then the kind
of big play ability to big play ability Arroyo presents
like that's going to put some strain on defenses of
how do we you know, what personnel do we send
out for this?
Speaker 2 (17:24):
Right now, I will say this, this is the same
caveat that I would have said, or I did say
last year with the defense. Mike McDonald's defense is very complicated.
This offense is very complicated in terms of what that
play call sounds like and what your responsibilities are. This
looks one way at training camp, and this is part
(17:45):
of why defense is won the day a few more
times so far that we have seen from the offense.
Right the offense is still working on install defenses, working
on that next step. I do wonder what it looks
like in game situations, right, I wonder if all of
the learning, like how long it truly takes to absorb.
Cooper Cup helps a lot having been in the system,
(18:06):
But I do wonder how long before we see the returns?
Speaker 4 (18:09):
Yeah, I mean there's gonna be inevitably some growing pains.
You never want that, but it's I mean, we saw it,
as you said with the defense last year, is you
can't overhauled this much and just have it go perfect
from week one.
Speaker 1 (18:20):
It's but it is you bring in.
Speaker 4 (18:22):
You can minimize those groen pains for a number of ways,
one of which is, it's not a new scheme with
a bunch of different coaches who don't know right. It's
a bunch of guys who came here together from New Orleans.
And again it's a scheme that in there's tweaks to it,
but very similar variants of the scheme are being run
all over the league. So a lot of these guys,
whether it's Cooper Cup in LA, whether it's Donald working
(18:45):
with Kubiak and San Francisco and then Kevin O'Connell and Minnesota, like,
they've seen some version of this offense. So I don't
think it's as drastic as maybe it could be if
it was some brand new scheme to all these guys.
Speaker 5 (18:57):
And if you're on the ball, guess what, Yeah that
the ball so much it still work?
Speaker 1 (19:02):
Yeah, yeah, I do like that.
Speaker 3 (19:05):
You.
Speaker 4 (19:05):
Ken Walker, by the way, has looked fantastic, look great,
just so fast and explosive.
Speaker 1 (19:12):
I'm excited about him.
Speaker 5 (19:13):
I know I try not to make I try not,
but yes I am excited.
Speaker 4 (19:19):
Not even August yet, They haven't you know they've been
pads twice.
Speaker 1 (19:24):
There's just so many.
Speaker 2 (19:25):
But if you're not excited right now, John, then when
else are you going to be excited?
Speaker 1 (19:30):
Exactly? It's too early for pessimism.
Speaker 5 (19:33):
Well that's not maybe what national media members.
Speaker 2 (19:36):
One thing that I wo say within the building one
hundred percent, it makes sense to me that our next
logical check in would be after we actually see them
on the field in a game, right, is that when
we should rejoin and talk to the peeps again and
see w'd be interesting.
Speaker 4 (19:50):
Pete Carrol, I know Geno coming down about that there.
I know first preseason game. It'd be great to see
him out.
Speaker 5 (19:58):
I wonder if he would just maybe.
Speaker 4 (20:00):
It's just fun, don't run out there and getting nice
ovation from the crowd. A few series, some off mid series.
Speaker 5 (20:07):
Yeah, that would be interesting, and we'll see what Pete
has up.
Speaker 1 (20:10):
We'll sleep.
Speaker 2 (20:11):
Maybe we'll check you out on former Seahawks and an
upcoming episode. But I think for now that'll do it
for this edition of the Seahawks Insiders Podcast
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