December 10, 2024 • 39 mins
Mike and Wes review the close loss to the Lions, looking at the Packers’ regrets (2:35) as well as the positives to take from the game moving forward (10:30) and some final takeaways (19:16). They also look at where things stand heading into Week 15 (28:11).
See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:15):
Hi, everybody. Welcome to another edition of Packers Unscripted from
Packers dot Com. I am Mike Spofford, joined as always
by my trusted colleague West Honkoitz. We're coming to you
Hear from our studios at Lambeaufield to review last Thursday's
trip to Detroit and unfortunately WES had ended in a
disappointing thirty four to thirty one loss to the Lions
(00:36):
at Ford Field, a walkoff loss field goal thirty five
yardfield goal on the last play of the game. I
would characterize this as a disappointing loss, but by no
means a discouraging loss. When I look at where the
Green Bay Packers are, would you agree with that?
Speaker 2 (00:53):
Yeah, I and any other year Packers went up against
the best team in the NFC and maybe they'd still
be their division, maybe they'd be second their division. Unfortunately,
we know what the North is this year. So that
was the hard part about it. When you realize that
the Packers now are nine to four and they've lost
to statistically in the standings the three top teams in
(01:13):
this conference in Philly, Minnesota and now Detroit twice. Green
Bay played a lot better in this game than they
did the game at Lambeufield a month ago. I thought
you saw some of the corrections that they needed to make.
They made those. The problem was, though, as we've seen
time and time again, Detroit is one of the most
consistent teams in the National Football League in terms of
(01:35):
executing what they are looking to do on the field.
They run the ball efficiently, they don't take negative yardage plays.
The more comfortable that Jared Goff gets, the less that
it's on his shoulders to kind of play hero ball.
The better that this team plays indefensively, I absolutely tip
my cap to them because for as a defensive front
(01:56):
that was as beat up as they were going into
this thing. The Lions, I thought, really brought it to
Green Bay and the trenches in this game. So there
were a lot of positives, there were some areas for improvements,
some negatives. But at the end of the day, and
we'll talk about this later in the week with Seattle
and what's coming at this loss to the Lions. As
(02:19):
long as Green Bay channels did it appropriately against Seattle,
against New Orleans, against Minnesota and then Chicago, I mean,
this could be something that really helps propel you into
the playoffs. They just need to make sure it doesn't
snowball the opposite way because green Bay played them really tough.
Speaker 1 (02:33):
Yeah, I thought so too, And I want to do
the I'm gonna call it the reverse dom Capers here.
Oh yeah, Pepers always used to go to Let's start
with the negatives, start with the positives. Okay, there are
positives to talk about from this game, and I want
to get to those, but I want to do those
later because I want to start with the regrets, because
there are a lot of regrets for the Packers. You
(02:55):
mentioned Detroit's banged up defense and how they kind of
took it to green Bay, especially in the game. The
slow start on offense in a game that turned out
to be turned into a shootout, right frankly offensively, the
slow start going punt punt fumble on the first three possessions,
especially when that second possession was starting near midfield, when
(03:16):
the defense for Green Bay had gotten a stop of
the Lions deep in their territory. So you get good
field position on your second drive of the game, down
seven to nothing, but you don't do anything with it.
Then you punt, and then the fumble occurs at the
end of an explosive catch and run by Christian Watson,
a gain of twenty yards. You're across midfield, but he
doesn't protect the football. It comes out and the Lions
(03:36):
get it back. They turn that into a field goal,
so you've gone punt punt fumble and you're down ten
to nothing. So the slow start there a very big regret. Obviously,
fourth downs another regret in this game. The Lions end
up converting four out of five on fourth downs. Two
of those are fourth and goals that turn into touchdowns,
and then obviously the fourth and one call at the end,
(03:59):
which allows them to then run the clock out before
they kicked the field goal, so the Packers don't get
the ball back, and really that was kind of the
culmination the biggest regret for me defensively in this game
for Green Bay. You know, you're not going to just
shut down the Lions. They're too good, right, They're going
to make plays, They're going to get points. What was
(04:22):
really the regret defensively in this game for Green Bay
was the last two drives. Because the defense had gotten
an interception and a fourth down stop back to back
in the second half. The Packers offensively turned both of
those into touchdowns, which really kind of you know, changed
(04:43):
the whole complexion of the game. But then Detroit's last
two drives they were just slowly methodically grinding the clock.
They get a touchdown, and then they kill the last
three and a half minutes to kick a field goal.
Those are the regrets that stay out to me. And
then of course you have the the offensive pass interference
(05:03):
in the red zone, which the Packers only end up
getting the field goal that ties the game instead of
a touchdown to take the lead. All of those fall
in the regret category. I'll let you expound on any
or all of them if you wish.
Speaker 2 (05:16):
Yeah, I kind of feel like Aaron Rodgers here is
like okay, like you're asking them them like I'm I
threw a whole lot at you. No, No, it's not
even that. It's just when you say, expounded what I want,
there's so much to expond upon. You touched on a
lot of it there. Let me just start off with
this what happened on those last two series. Green Bay
needs to get stops, no question about it. You can't
(05:37):
let them leak down the field the way they did. Absolutely,
But that is this is what Detroit does seventy six
offensive plays thirty six minutes a time of possession. They
wear on you, they lean on you, they play physically,
and then they just try to sort of push you
over over the course of a sixty minute game. Not
to say that that's what they did at the end.
I think green Bay was competitive from beginning, middle and end.
(05:59):
But it just shows you when you apply that type
of pressure what the Lions are able to achieve. And
this was one game, Mike. For as many regrettable moments
as there were for green Bay, Detroit had a fair
amount of them. The interception that Jared Goff has that
turns into a Keishawn Nixon pick, his first pick of
the year, that leads to points them deciding to go
(06:21):
for it on fourth and one. I believe it was,
or maybe fourth to two at their own thirty one
yard line while they're leading twenty four to twenty one.
I mean, that's a controversial decision in the third quarter,
and all the other ones, the fourth downs, I agreed
with all of them. And you had to read this
when I wrote this an inbox, I'd be curious to
see your thoughts on it. Matt Lafleur's point about a
(06:44):
week or two ago about the red zone and when
you're passing deep in the red zone, either the play
is there or it's not. You're going off schedule. The
bang Bank nature of it is what ended up happening
at the end of the first half, and then obviously
the one that they converted late, and credit Jared Goff.
He was decisive, they were effective in what they were
trying to run, and to me, in addition to the
(07:05):
final two defensive stands, that was the difference. If Green
Bay keeps them out of the end zone and one
or two of those instances, yeah, this thing maybe goes
a different direction. It certainly would have had a different
flavor going into halftime.
Speaker 1 (07:15):
Yeah, when you talk about those fourth and goal plays,
the passes, those passes being there right away, I totally
agree with you there. One of the keys to that though,
is the balls on the two yard line or three
yard line in both of those instances, where when you
have Jamior Gibbs and David Montgomery defensively, you have to
be prepared for anything they might do. They might run it,
(07:36):
they might throw it. You know, it can be anything
which does make and the Lions know that you know,
obviously fourth and goal from the seven, if they decide
to go for that, you're going, okay, they're probably gonna
throw the ball here right well, fourth and goal from
the two, you don't know. And and the Lions use
that to their advantage because because those running backs are
(07:56):
so tough and are capable of of pounding those balls
in from the goal line. The Packers actually did a
really good job stopping the other than the very first
one at the beginning of the game, stopping those guys
from getting the rushing guests. They made Jared Goff throw
the ball into the end zone. But unfortunately they unfortunately
(08:16):
they weren't able to stop those It was really it
was really disappointing to see on the second fourth and
goal where they scored in the second half, that the
Lions came out of the huddle and kind of quick
snapped on the Packers and the defense wasn't set and
wasn't ready right. That's the kind of thing that can't
happen in a crucial situation like that. And and you know,
(08:38):
it's not like the Lions been do and hurry up
stuff and this and that throughout the game. It's like boom,
they just you know, they came out of the huddle
and they're like they rush up to the line and
snapped the ball, and you know they caught the Packers
to you have to give them credit. And if you're
the Packers, you have to say that that can't happen.
You have to be ready for the Lions to try
something different at any moment, and and they just they
(09:01):
That's how Detroit stays a step ahead of opponents most
of the time.
Speaker 2 (09:05):
And kudos to Dan Campbell and Ben Johnson on this too,
because green Bay, if you look at the film this year,
Mic and all these teams do when they're playing them,
green Bay has been extraordinary in goal to go against
the run this season. How many times has it been
where the Packers have actually gotten off the field there
or they found a way to turn over the football.
It happened again in this thing, and it happened primarily
because teams are trying to run against them and they're
(09:27):
not having success. Detroit made the right correction. They tried
to sneak it, they tried to run it, they tried everything,
and then finally they go back to the pass. They
trust their quarterback to make the right lead and he
achieves that. The disappointing thing for me is that Detroit
finishes this game, Michael, even with an a'man Ross Saint
Brown ten yard run, thirty four carries for one hundred
and eleven yards three point three yards per carry. Jamiir
(09:49):
Gibbs had forty three yards on fifteen carries. That's the
number three in the fan voting for the Pro Bowl
right now. Forty three yards on fifteen carries, and one
of those went for twenty yards. Green Bay helped them
in check a lot of the ways you have to
hold them in check. But the difficult thing about facing
the Detroit Lions is even if you keep them in
(10:10):
third and moderate, there's a chance they're still going to
go for it on fourth down. And when you stretch
out four plays like that while trying to get ten yards,
I mean, it's an aggressive mentality. We'll see whether or
not it's good enough to win a Super Bowl, yeah,
but certainly it's something that keeps you on edge the
entire time. And in this case, you know, obviously it
was probably the difference in the game. It was my
key to key to the game.
Speaker 1 (10:30):
So yeah, I agree, and that's where I wanted to
start with the positives in this game for Green Bay
because as much as you look at thirty four points
on the scoreboard, that's not what you're looking for defensively, obviously,
But I thought the Packers run defense, by and large,
was pretty darn good against maybe the best one to
two punch at running back in the league, certainly the
(10:50):
best one to two punch at running back the Packers
have faced. Yeah, this season in Montgomery and Gibbs, you
were throwing out some of the numbers. I went through
a few other numbers looking at specifically Montgomery and Gibbs.
Twenty nine carries between those two guys, and they didn't
have one hundred yards ninety four twenty nine for ninety four.
You will take that. I mean, credit to the Lions.
(11:11):
They stick with the run because they make you honor it.
And that is what helps out Jared Goff so much,
is because you do have to invest so much in
stopping the run. But those twenty nine carries between those
two backs, only five of them, Only five of those
twenty nine went for more than four yards. I mean,
twenty four out of twenty nine rushes by those two
(11:33):
running backs, the Packers held them to four yards or less.
That I think has been the most positive sign for
this defense moving forward. And as the Packers hit the
stretch run here and we're going to and again on
our next show, we'll talk about Seattle and what they're
doing with their running game, But the Packers' run defense
has been pretty darn good, and I think, I think
(11:53):
if that's something, and you know, Packers are banged up
now in the secondary, the injuries to Evan Williams and
Javon Bullered, and we'll see how this all shakes out
here the final month of the regular season, But if
the Packers can hang their hat on some solid run defense,
then you kind of you make the adjustments the rest
of the way, right with everything else that you have
to do. I thought, I thought green Bay's run defense
(12:17):
was darn good in this game.
Speaker 2 (12:18):
So it's a catch twenty two kind of situation here
because I thought green Bay almost sort of pushed Detroit
out of the run, but it forced them to sort
of synthesize that production with their screen game, which they
did do eleven catches for the two running backs between them,
So in one way, you look at that as almost
a little bit of a feather in the cap that
it's like, Okay, they had to find a different way
to generate early down yardage. But you still when you
(12:42):
look at what green Bay did the two games going
into this, and I don't remember the exact stats, but
I think it was thirty carries for eighty three yards.
In the two previous games, Packers hadn't had a stretch
like that. I think only two stretches like that since
like nineteen fifty where they had back to back games
where they held teams in check that much. Yeah, without
allowing a rushing touchdown. Sure, so that's that is a
(13:04):
positive and I draw a lot from that. I think conversely,
green Bay had their own struggles trying to get the
run game going, but this game again proved that even
if things aren't blocked up perfectly, Josh Jacobs is gonna
make you right. My key to victory for this game, Mike,
was the Packers need to run the ball better than
Detroit did. They didn't technically do that when you look
(13:26):
at the total yardage when you look at some of
those things, But again, I will look at Josh Jacobs
and what he has done and the way he has
been able to really make that running game and own
it and make that his own goes over a thousand
yards for the season. Now has eight rushing touchdowns in
his last four games, a streak that we have not
seen outside of Aaron Jones. This guy is legitimate, and
(13:49):
I just think when Green Bay is gonna be if
you can keep him healthy, get to the postseason with him.
I mean, I think number eight is going to do
some real damage. So run defense, run offense. Things did
you can correct on both sides of those things. But
the more and more I watched Josh Jacobs Mike and
I know I went on kind of my own little
(14:10):
tangent there. I just green Bay struggled for so long.
And this goes back to McCarthy era. It's not even
just on Matt Lafleurke. Sure, they struggled so long on
goal to go situations and what do you do when
you're at the two or three yard line. You know,
John Cohn used to take some of those handoffs, and
they tried to, you know, other running backs that aren't
always successful with it.
Speaker 1 (14:28):
And we saw for a few years it just became
the DeVante Adams show that Aaron Rodgers to DeVante Adams.
That's how when the Packers got inside the five, that
was you know, other than the one year, the one
year Aaron Jones had the sixteen rushing touchdowns, which I
believe was Matt Lafleur's first season. Jones had sixteen rushing
touchdowns that year. Other than that, it always felt like
(14:48):
it was just it was like either Adams was gonna
Adams was going to get the ball in goal to go,
or the Packers might be kicking a field goal. So
I totally get where you're coming from.
Speaker 2 (14:57):
Yeah, so I mean him having so Jacob's having a
three touchdown game, you know, and that's the hard part too.
You have you have Christian Watson where he has the
early fumble, but kind of like his game last year
against the Lions, I thought Christian Watson was really critical
of what green Bay did and if at the very least,
I mean we could talk about the OPI if you
want to, but the forty six yarder to start the
(15:17):
second half, I mean that was huge to be for
green Bay to get that play early on, get that score,
that response to how the first half ended, and it
nearly was enough to pull out this win.
Speaker 1 (15:29):
That's what I was going to say with regard to Watson,
I wanted to point out that, you know, he did
everything he could to make up for at that early fit.
The four receptions for one hundred and fourteen yards, the
big one down the sideline early in the third quarter,
all of that, you know, Watson, Watson was the explosive play,
(15:51):
was the explosive play guy. We saw don Tavian Wicks
get involved again. Four catches forty nine yards. Romeo Dobbs
missed this game, he was still in the was still
on the concussion protocol. So what Don Tavianooks was able
to contribute. We saw Tucker Craft again. He was doing
his Tucker Craft things. Three catches forty one yards, gets
the touchdown, the twenty one yard reception where he kind
(16:13):
of gets labeled there near the goal line, but does
the kip up and now he becomes, you know, a
social media hero and everything with Sean michaels I Love
West has a story on that on packers dot com.
By the way, for those who are interested in what
Tucker Craft had to say about all the attention that
that play has gotten.
Speaker 2 (16:33):
This guy, man, I'm telling you, dude, like they're gonna
build statues for him if he plays long enough. I mean,
touchdowns are great. He has seven of them, leads the team.
He's over five hundred receiving yards on the year. But
those type of plays his mentality. He said it to
Bill Hubert after the game, and then he was talking
with us in the locker room on Monday about it.
(16:54):
He did not want to let Jack Campbell, Kirby Joseph,
any of those guys get any type of jew any
type of momentum off that play for laying him out.
He wanted to do something that was going to tell
them I'm still here. And he got to his feet
quicker than Jack Campbell did. Those are the type of
ball players you want to have on your team. It's
not about what you say. It's not about throwing your
(17:15):
helmet at someone's kneecap. It is about how you respond
in moments in which physicality are warranted. Tucker Craft did that,
and this dude, man, I'm telling you, when you're talking
about heartbeat players, heart and soul players, guys that you
want to ride with you want to have your identity
(17:36):
built around. It's Tucker Craft because he does it the
right way. He's not looking to go out there and
injure people. He's not going out there to try to
be somebody that is going to become this big quote afterwards.
He wants to go play football. He did it that
way in South Dakota. He's doing it that way in
Green Bay, Wisconsin. He is going to play the game
the right way. And I can't tell you how much
(17:56):
respect I had for him. And I got to say
this too before you we go is a different direction.
The way we handle our things. People that are frequent
watches of our shows, read our content, you're at the
postgame press conferences. I'm in the locker room. I need
to say this once. Christian Watson again proved why again
(18:19):
while you have a heart and soul player like Tucker Kraft,
the way Christian Watson handles himself and the emotions that
were felt after that game, the fumble, the OPI, he
stood at his locker, his visiting room locker, and talked
about how it's on him. It's not about the officials,
it's not about what happened in the game. It's up
(18:41):
to him. If Kirby Joseph steps up and stops and
basically sets a screen, He's got to find a way
around it. If there's a fumble after a twenty yard catch,
he has to find a way to protect the ball better.
Christian Watson, Man, when you're building the culture of team,
and I've said a newnumerous times this season, when you
been in diversity hits, that really shows the true character
(19:03):
of an individual. I wish my character was stronger. It's not,
I'm gonna be honest with you, but I think Christian
Watson embodies everything you wanted a professional football player, and
that Mike is the end of my diet trip.
Speaker 1 (19:15):
All right, Well, he is a true pro. I want
to make a couple more points on this.
Speaker 2 (19:20):
Game, please do I just made twelve.
Speaker 1 (19:21):
Move on, No, that's okay. Because I realized this as
I was kind of jotting down some notes that I
know we call this Packers unscripted, but I was jotting
down some notes for the show and I didn't realize
it until this moment be talking about the Packers defense
and how I started that whole discussion by saying, Hey,
the Lions are going to get their yards, They're going
to get their points. Right. The Packers' defense in this
(19:44):
game had back to back stops in the first half
and had back to back stops in the second half.
The difference in the game, quite frankly, was what the
Packers offense did in those moments. The back to back
stops in the second half, the interception and the fourth
downstop were turned into two touchdowns. The back to back
stops in the first half a punt from midfield and
(20:06):
then a fumble, and you get no points off of those.
So in a game where you know your defense is
going to be taxed because the Lions are explosive and
dangerous and efficient and they will grind you into the
earth offensively, the times that the Packers defense had the
upper hand, the offense only cashed in on that sort
(20:29):
of in sort of half the time instead of all
the time, which is what you need to do when
your defense does get those stops. And then before we
move on, I'm going to make one comment about the officiating.
Oh good, because I thought and I've thought this one
through and I'm not even going to talk about other
than to say it right now. The OPI on Watson
and the Kirby Joseph collision and all that, I'm leaving
(20:50):
that one aside because what bothered me when I looked
at this game as a whole, and a lot of
people talking about the missed calls in this call and
the non call here and what ever, what bothered me
the most about the officiating in this game are two
calls that were about as inconsistent as you can get
(21:12):
in this league. And what I'm talking about are the
opening possession for the for Detroit, they have third and
goal in the seven yard line and Keishawn Nixon gets
called for illegal contact in the end zone when the
receiver runs into him. So the incomplete pass doesn't count.
Speaker 2 (21:28):
It's just a call.
Speaker 1 (21:29):
The incomplete pass doesn't count. The So instead of kicking,
I'm assuming the Lions wouldn't have gone forward on fourth
and goal from the seven. Maybe that's a poor assumption,
but I'm thinking they would kick the field goal there
on the opening drive of the game. But instead they
get a first and goal inside the five and they
punch it in. I don't think the illegal contact had
a whole lot of impact on the play, but by
(21:51):
the letter of the law, if you say that's illegal contact, okay. Five.
But then on the last possession of the game, the Packers,
after a holding penalty on Detroit have the Lions in
second and seventeen and i'man ross. Saint Brown runs a
deep end cut, shoves Keishaw Nixon out of the way,
and catches a sixteen yard pass to make it third
(22:12):
and one. What bothers me the most about NFL officiating
is Kishawn Nixon getting called for that illegal contact on
the opening drive of the game, which is a four
point call. And then they don't call the push off
by the offensive player on the last possession of the game,
which instead of they call that it's second in twenty
(22:33):
seven from near midfield and instead it's third and one. Yep,
it's a twenty six yard swing. So one call is
a four point swing, the other call is a twenty
six yard swing. And there is zero consistency whatsoever with
how those how those two calls are made. So I'll
let you comment if you want to. I'm gonna leave
it at that. That is what is the most frustrating
(22:56):
thing about officiating in the NFL and how it imps
these very important games.
Speaker 2 (23:02):
My Grandma Mary used to always uh save her coffee
and the next morning would re brew it, rewarm it up.
And I feel like that's what you've just done to
me with this officiating topic. As I had cooled off
and now going through that, which was a very good,
very convincing, very well articulated.
Speaker 1 (23:23):
All I'm all I'm saying. All I'm saying is if
if both of those if both of those calls are
if both of those are called in a consistent manner,
either the Lions have four fewer points on the board
or the Packers are probably getting the ball back at
least at the end of the ball game. So that's
that's that's my point.
Speaker 2 (23:43):
Let me So you know, Christian Watson was talking about
how he had to do things differently. I can tell
you one thing that Keishaw Nixon needed to do differently
after the shove from mom Andree Saint Brown is he
needed to act like he got hit by a mac
truck and bounce down the field for about five or
ten yards because that's the only way John halse and
his crew are catching stuff. I'm gonna say this once
(24:07):
and we'll move on from it. If I don't see
a John Hussey officiated game the rest of the season,
I'll be totally fine with that.
Speaker 1 (24:13):
I will second that motion.
Speaker 2 (24:14):
This in my opinion was the worst officiated game the
Packers have been a part of since the twenty twenty
NFC Championship game.
Speaker 1 (24:21):
In Michael, I would agree with that.
Speaker 2 (24:23):
Why am I saying that because of the consistency of
the calls. One of the reasons why I always praise
Bill Venovich, why I always praise some of these crews
across the league is one, you call the stuff that
matters in the moments that it mattered. Otherwise, it's football.
You can you can throw a flag on every play
if you want to at the critical times calling those
(24:44):
calling those types of penalties in two though, the overarching
thing to all this is just like teams have their
own game plans, just like they have their own adjustments,
officials need to be understanding of how they are calling
a game and stick to that standard. That's six seven,
eight people all working together, understanding the way in which
they're going to go through this thing. I deleted this
(25:07):
from Insider Inbox on Saturday, but I'm going to say
it now. There was not a single call made in
that game amongst professional officials that I don't think A
four man crew in the WIA and Wisconsin high school
football couldn't have made There was nothing I saw in
that game. Everything that they called was either a deliberate reaction.
(25:29):
You know, we talk about the Dan Skipper incident there
with kway Walker, and I'm telling you this right now,
Packer fans layoff kowy Walker. It's going to get corrected.
The issues that whatever the coaching staff wants to do
with kay Walker, they're going to handle that. What happened
in that incident, that could have been any linebacker. I
understand Quay shoved him back. I understand that there's a
(25:50):
history there. I get that. Don't tell me that Dan
Skipper didn't know that, especially the way that he was
handling himself throughout the course of that game, the way
that this thing went down. You move past it, You
move on. Players aren't going to talk about it. Coaches
aren't going to talk about it. Don't want to get fined.
I don't think I can get fined. We'll see. But
(26:12):
this game, Buy and Large Detroit was a better team.
Matt Laflor says it all the time. Yep, you have
to play above the officials. Green Bay didn't. But my god, man,
like this was one of those games where I got
done with it. I'm just like, this is what the
NFL wants, this is this is how they want their
game officiated, and yeah that's how it goes.
Speaker 1 (26:28):
Yeah it's too bad, but we will move on and
first to some sponsor business. Serious XMNFL Radio delivers hard
hitting analysis and up to the minute NFL news that
true football fanatics need twenty four to seven, three sixty
five and I Cousin Subs. We have something for everyone
like our Wisconsin cheese kurds, mac and cheese, golden fries,
and creamy shakes, all paired with your favorite sub or
sub in a bowl. Cousin Subs fifty plus years of better.
Speaker 2 (26:52):
Hey, I want to close on one. Well, we'll get
to all the other games quick, but I want to
close this discussion on the lines. Though, I will say this,
I'm a huge pro wrestling Mark kind of mention it
there with the whole Tucker Craft thing. I love the
rivalry of this thing, though, I do. Oh yeah, the
packers and lines. And I said this with a couple
of my comments on Twitter and on inbox the last
(27:12):
few days, like this is as cool and as real
and as true of a rivalry as I've felt during
my time you were there NFC Championship game in twenty ten,
I was, and I don't know what that felt like
with you know, Jay Cutler and all that. By the
time I started coming the team, Jay was sort of
already on the other end of that. But I mean, yeah,
it was competitive with the Vikings for a few years,
and there's these moments there, But in terms of just
(27:34):
the perennialness of this, it feels like this is something
that's going to go on for years. And I love
that because I think that's when football's at its best.
Pro wrestling sells its storylines based on the feelings that
it is evoking, and I feel like, especially in my
own personality, there's plenty of feelings that I feel right
now between the Scream Band Detroit thing. So we'll see
(27:56):
whether or not they see him again this season, but
if they do, it's gonna be a boat look fun.
Speaker 1 (28:00):
Yeah, And I hope, and we're not going to get
ahead of ourselves, but I hope. We're doing a show
previewing Round three of Packers Lions in the twenty twenty
four slash twenty five season. Where things stand right now
in the NFC North Detroit is twelve and one, Minnesota
is eleven and two. Green Bay is nine and four.
As we talked about last week, losing this game takes
(28:23):
the division out of the picture. For green Bay, it
is now wildcard or bust. The good news is the
Packers are in very good position to get a wild card.
It would appear that if they were at nine and
four right now, if they can get to eleven wins,
they will almost one hundred percent assuredly be in the playoffs,
and they may be able to get there depending on
(28:44):
how some other things fall. They may be able to
get there with ten wins, and they will be going
for their tenth win this weekend out in Seattle, yet
another primetime game Sunday Night Football, and Seattle was certainly
involved in one of the more significant results in the NFL.
From Week fourteen. They went on the road. Two weeks
(29:04):
after beating Arizona in Seattle, they went on the road
to Arizona for the rematch against their division rival and
they beat them again. So that is now four straight
wins for the Seattle Seahawks. They are sitting atop the
NFC West, a division that was kind of a big
muddled mess there for a while. Now has a clear
(29:25):
front runner, and it is the Seattle Seahawks, and that
is the Packer's opponent. We'll get into them a little
bit more on our next show. But the way things
are shaping up, you know, the Packers are in tremendously
good position to get a wild card spot and to
(29:46):
try to make another run at this thing like they
did last season.
Speaker 2 (29:48):
Yeah, very much so. In a win over the Seattle
Seahawks on Sunday Night football go a long way into
achieving that. What I found interesting about the game that
the Seahawks played against the Cardinals, because it was their
second time facing Theme in three weeks, it was a
different recipe for how they won this thing. They don't
have Kenneth Walker the third, so Zach Charbonnet has to
go in there. He's played a little bit this season.
(30:10):
Balls out probably their best rushing performance this season. This
is not a great running football team. One of the
things the points I'm making an insider inbox for Wednesday
is that in this shift to Gino Smith and obviously
Pete Carroll's no longer there, but they've changed the complete
chemistry of their offense. It went from a very run heavy.
This team's every year with Russell Wilson is gonna be
(30:32):
a top five rushing offense to like their twenty seventh
or twenty eighth in the NFL. And they are passing
at nauseum. Now, some of that's because of the games
in which they're playing, but that's also kind of the
way that Geno Smith plays this game though illustrated one
what happens when Gino doesn't throw an interception. They won
the takeaways and they were able to establish the run.
(30:52):
A lot of lessons Green Bay is going to be
able to learn from that going into this matchup. But
four game winning streak Now for Seattle, a division where
they were looking for somebody to sort of claw up
to the top of this heap, it's them and it
looks like the Rams are right behind him. Now, So yeah,
I have an impressive win. And I mean talk about
a tone setter within your division to be able to
(31:16):
knock back Arizona, knock them out of the lead, and
then have them, you know, really push them down a
little bit in a matter of three weeks. Yeah, that
was a big momentum changer here for the Seahawks.
Speaker 1 (31:26):
Yeah, Kyler Murray a few weeks ago in Seattle, was
only able to put six points on the board and
threw a killer pick six in that game that allowed
Seattle to win the first one, and then he threw
two just terrible interceptions in the first quarter of the
rematch that the Seahawks turned both of those into touchdowns,
built a multi score lead, and pretty much kept it
(31:47):
there the rest of the way. So you look at
just how the Seahawks have have beaten the Cardinals twice
in the last three weeks, it's because of it's because
of the turnovers, the opposing quarter back, and certainly Jordan
Love has done a much better job taking care of
the football lately. The fumble we talked about with Christian
Wattson was that's the Packers only giveaway only turnover offensively
(32:12):
in the last three games, really three and a half games.
Going back, you go back to the first half in Chicago,
the interception down by the goal line. The Packers had
gone a long stretch without turning the ball over, so
that will matter as well. Before we go, just your
thoughts quickly. You mentioned the Rams forty four to forty two,
highest scoring game in the NFL this year. They pull
(32:34):
it out over the Buffalo Bills to keep the Rams
very much in the playoff hunt at this point. And
I don't know if you saw the end of that game,
I don't know what in the world Buffalo is thinking
when you're on the one yard line and you have
all three of your timeouts to potentially take on defense
with you, and you call a quarterback sneak, which then
(32:57):
fails and you have to burn your one time out,
which then puts the game entirely on the on sidekick
instead of giving your defense a chance to actually give
you one more shot. I don't even know what, because
what would possess anybody in that situation to call a
quarterback sneak or even yeah, or even just burning the
first time out because the quarterback sneak feels you're better
(33:20):
off hurrying up, spiking the ball and be having third
and goal on the one rather than burning the timeout
that you burn. It was such a it was such
a complete cluster of how they managed the clock at
the end of that game to they just they they
had a chance to pull off an amazing comeback and
they blew it because of clock management. It was it
(33:40):
was it was disappointing. I I enjoy watching the Buffalo Bills.
I enjoy watching Josh Allen, and I was really hoping
they might be able to pull that one out.
Speaker 2 (33:48):
One the Bills are dead to me now. I was
kind of pulling for them for a while, and then
they go and muddle this up against the Rams, which
could have really helped out with green Bays playoff chance.
I think it was this game alone that actually made
Bay's wild card chances go from ninety nine to ninety
eight percent. Hey, listen, two things Buffalo forgot how they
beat the forty nine ers in this game. Like it's
(34:11):
like they go completely away from the run, they fall
behind early, they're passing, and then at that very minute,
it seems like they always fall into this trap where
they forget that Josh Allen. Yes he can run, and
yes he can score touchdowns with his feet, but he
is a quarterback and he's probably one of the top
three guys in the NFL, and they just resort to
these type of things. Well, he's you know, to under
and however many pounds he's going to get himself in,
(34:32):
he doesn't. And you know, they I thought they, you know,
maybe it's the wake up call they needed kind of
like I felt like in some ways, you know, Kansas
City a couple of weeks ago had a wake up
call they needed. But the fact of the matter is
is that the Rams and what they did in this game.
I thought, Matthew Stafford, this is probably his best game
of the season. Poka Nakua. They're using him in different ways.
Speaker 1 (34:51):
Now, that was a monster game by Nikua.
Speaker 2 (34:53):
Yeah he was, he was.
Speaker 1 (34:56):
When he's right, the guy is just said an egamic
football playeres. He completely changes the complexion of that Rams offense,
which of course the Packers did not see that when
Green Bay played La because both Nikoua and Cup were
out of the game, were injured and not playing in
that game. But but yeah, it'd be interesting to see
now what the Rams do with this, because everybody is saying, now,
(35:16):
you know, they put up forty four points, like, oh,
the Rams are danger. Nobody seems to be talking about
the fact that the Rams just gave up forty two. Yes,
for sure, So how much does that make you a
legitimate playoff.
Speaker 2 (35:26):
Because I don't know.
Speaker 1 (35:27):
I think the worst Defasius Stafford has been there and
done that. They have a lot of weapons on offense,
can their defense actually put together the run that they
need to get a playoff spot here we'll see.
Speaker 2 (35:36):
Yeah, no, I mean, at very least it's going to
keep things interesting in the NFC West. A lot of
those matchups are in the balance, hovering in the balance.
Speaker 1 (35:43):
Rams are just trying to get to the final game
of the season, one game back of the Seahawks because
then they play Seattle in Week eighteen and they essentially
steal the division there by by beating them to sweep
them and get the tie and then they would win
the tie breaker based on the sweep. So the Rams
are trying to stay one game back of the Seahawks.
So Rams fans are big Packers fans this week, quite frankly,
(36:06):
because they'd like to see the Packers knock off the Seahawks.
Speaker 2 (36:09):
Last two things really quick. Yeah. San Francisco ran the
Bears out of the building Bears head.
Speaker 1 (36:14):
Oh my gosh.
Speaker 2 (36:15):
Total yards of offense in the first.
Speaker 1 (36:16):
Half, Yeah, first half total yards I believe was three
hundred and nineteen to four.
Speaker 2 (36:20):
Yeah. Another reminder, I just want to say this. I
was talking to some people in the locker room about
this on Monday. I get the people were not high
on Matt Eberflus. I understand what happened, but putting your
passive game coordinator in making him the interim offensive coordinator
and then making him the interim head coach might not
be the best recipe for having success. That's a tough
(36:43):
echelon to climb in like four weeks. But then I
want to close on this. Kansas City is the final boss.
No matter what, Kansas City is the final boss. You
think you got him, you don't got them. You don't
got them.
Speaker 1 (36:56):
They are They are somehow, some way going to win
the game, including their third kicker of the season clanking
a chip shot off the upright but bank shot, bank
shot with the correct angle and it goes in, and
the Kansas City Chiefs win yet another game, and which
(37:16):
was huge because they now have it because of the
Buffalo loss. Yeah, Kansas City now has a two game
cushion with four games to go to get the number
one seed and the buy in the AFC of position
that the Buffalo Bills and the Pittsburgh Steelers were hoping
to push for. But now both of those clubs are
two games back with four to go because of the
(37:40):
bank shot.
Speaker 2 (37:40):
I love to the fact that you're talking about teams
being two big games behind. Denver now holds a two
game advantage over Indianapolis and Miami for this number seven
seed in the playoffs. Yeah, with a month left to play,
things can still change. But there are six teams that
have been eliminated from playoff contention in the AFC. What
is there two in the or there's yeah, there's there's one.
(38:05):
The Giants are eliminated in the NFC. That's it.
Speaker 1 (38:08):
Well, and you talk about you talk about Miami. They
they basically barely stayed alive by by winning in overtime
against the Jets, a big field goal at the end
of regulation and then they drive, They get the opening
drive of the overtime, go down and get a touchdown,
Aaron Rodgers doesn't get the ball back and and Miami
State Miami stays within shouting distance of that final wildcard
(38:30):
spot in the AFC.
Speaker 2 (38:31):
Everyone chasing bo Nix.
Speaker 1 (38:33):
Buckle up, folks, these last what a week that was?
That are going to be fun. We've gone way overtime
today and apologies to our producer Zach, but we know
if he'll deal with it.
Speaker 2 (38:42):
Only did one show last week. We had a lot
to get off our chest.
Speaker 1 (38:44):
That's true, but I do also have to say that,
oh yeah, I'm of The twenty twenty five NFL Draft
is right here in Green Bay April twenty four through
April twenty six of twenty twenty five. Visit green Bay
dot com slash Draft twenty five for more information, and
with that we'll call it a rap on this edition
a Packers Unscripted. I'm sure to follow all of our
coverage of the team on Packers dot com for Westside Mike.
(39:04):
Thank you for tuning in, everybody, and we will see
you next time.
Hi, everybody. Welcome to another edition of Packers Unscripted from
Packers dot Com. I am Mike Spofford, joined as always
by my trusted colleague West Honkoitz. We're coming to you
Hear from our studios at Lambeaufield to review last Thursday's
trip to Detroit and unfortunately WES had ended in a
disappointing thirty four to thirty one loss to the Lions
(00:36):
at Ford Field, a walkoff loss field goal thirty five
yardfield goal on the last play of the game. I
would characterize this as a disappointing loss, but by no
means a discouraging loss. When I look at where the
Green Bay Packers are, would you agree with that?
Speaker 2 (00:53):
Yeah, I and any other year Packers went up against
the best team in the NFC and maybe they'd still
be their division, maybe they'd be second their division. Unfortunately,
we know what the North is this year. So that
was the hard part about it. When you realize that
the Packers now are nine to four and they've lost
to statistically in the standings the three top teams in
(01:13):
this conference in Philly, Minnesota and now Detroit twice. Green
Bay played a lot better in this game than they
did the game at Lambeufield a month ago. I thought
you saw some of the corrections that they needed to make.
They made those. The problem was, though, as we've seen
time and time again, Detroit is one of the most
consistent teams in the National Football League in terms of
(01:35):
executing what they are looking to do on the field.
They run the ball efficiently, they don't take negative yardage plays.
The more comfortable that Jared Goff gets, the less that
it's on his shoulders to kind of play hero ball.
The better that this team plays indefensively, I absolutely tip
my cap to them because for as a defensive front
(01:56):
that was as beat up as they were going into
this thing. The Lions, I thought, really brought it to
Green Bay and the trenches in this game. So there
were a lot of positives, there were some areas for improvements,
some negatives. But at the end of the day, and
we'll talk about this later in the week with Seattle
and what's coming at this loss to the Lions. As
(02:19):
long as Green Bay channels did it appropriately against Seattle,
against New Orleans, against Minnesota and then Chicago, I mean,
this could be something that really helps propel you into
the playoffs. They just need to make sure it doesn't
snowball the opposite way because green Bay played them really tough.
Speaker 1 (02:33):
Yeah, I thought so too, And I want to do
the I'm gonna call it the reverse dom Capers here.
Oh yeah, Pepers always used to go to Let's start
with the negatives, start with the positives. Okay, there are
positives to talk about from this game, and I want
to get to those, but I want to do those
later because I want to start with the regrets, because
there are a lot of regrets for the Packers. You
(02:55):
mentioned Detroit's banged up defense and how they kind of
took it to green Bay, especially in the game. The
slow start on offense in a game that turned out
to be turned into a shootout, right frankly offensively, the
slow start going punt punt fumble on the first three possessions,
especially when that second possession was starting near midfield, when
(03:16):
the defense for Green Bay had gotten a stop of
the Lions deep in their territory. So you get good
field position on your second drive of the game, down
seven to nothing, but you don't do anything with it.
Then you punt, and then the fumble occurs at the
end of an explosive catch and run by Christian Watson,
a gain of twenty yards. You're across midfield, but he
doesn't protect the football. It comes out and the Lions
(03:36):
get it back. They turn that into a field goal,
so you've gone punt punt fumble and you're down ten
to nothing. So the slow start there a very big regret. Obviously,
fourth downs another regret in this game. The Lions end
up converting four out of five on fourth downs. Two
of those are fourth and goals that turn into touchdowns,
and then obviously the fourth and one call at the end,
(03:59):
which allows them to then run the clock out before
they kicked the field goal, so the Packers don't get
the ball back, and really that was kind of the
culmination the biggest regret for me defensively in this game
for Green Bay. You know, you're not going to just
shut down the Lions. They're too good, right, They're going
to make plays, They're going to get points. What was
(04:22):
really the regret defensively in this game for Green Bay
was the last two drives. Because the defense had gotten
an interception and a fourth down stop back to back
in the second half. The Packers offensively turned both of
those into touchdowns, which really kind of you know, changed
(04:43):
the whole complexion of the game. But then Detroit's last
two drives they were just slowly methodically grinding the clock.
They get a touchdown, and then they kill the last
three and a half minutes to kick a field goal.
Those are the regrets that stay out to me. And
then of course you have the the offensive pass interference
(05:03):
in the red zone, which the Packers only end up
getting the field goal that ties the game instead of
a touchdown to take the lead. All of those fall
in the regret category. I'll let you expound on any
or all of them if you wish.
Speaker 2 (05:16):
Yeah, I kind of feel like Aaron Rodgers here is
like okay, like you're asking them them like I'm I
threw a whole lot at you. No, No, it's not
even that. It's just when you say, expounded what I want,
there's so much to expond upon. You touched on a
lot of it there. Let me just start off with
this what happened on those last two series. Green Bay
needs to get stops, no question about it. You can't
(05:37):
let them leak down the field the way they did. Absolutely,
But that is this is what Detroit does seventy six
offensive plays thirty six minutes a time of possession. They
wear on you, they lean on you, they play physically,
and then they just try to sort of push you
over over the course of a sixty minute game. Not
to say that that's what they did at the end.
I think green Bay was competitive from beginning, middle and end.
(05:59):
But it just shows you when you apply that type
of pressure what the Lions are able to achieve. And
this was one game, Mike. For as many regrettable moments
as there were for green Bay, Detroit had a fair
amount of them. The interception that Jared Goff has that
turns into a Keishawn Nixon pick, his first pick of
the year, that leads to points them deciding to go
(06:21):
for it on fourth and one. I believe it was,
or maybe fourth to two at their own thirty one
yard line while they're leading twenty four to twenty one.
I mean, that's a controversial decision in the third quarter,
and all the other ones, the fourth downs, I agreed
with all of them. And you had to read this
when I wrote this an inbox, I'd be curious to
see your thoughts on it. Matt Lafleur's point about a
(06:44):
week or two ago about the red zone and when
you're passing deep in the red zone, either the play
is there or it's not. You're going off schedule. The
bang Bank nature of it is what ended up happening
at the end of the first half, and then obviously
the one that they converted late, and credit Jared Goff.
He was decisive, they were effective in what they were
trying to run, and to me, in addition to the
(07:05):
final two defensive stands, that was the difference. If Green
Bay keeps them out of the end zone and one
or two of those instances, yeah, this thing maybe goes
a different direction. It certainly would have had a different
flavor going into halftime.
Speaker 1 (07:15):
Yeah, when you talk about those fourth and goal plays,
the passes, those passes being there right away, I totally
agree with you there. One of the keys to that though,
is the balls on the two yard line or three
yard line in both of those instances, where when you
have Jamior Gibbs and David Montgomery defensively, you have to
be prepared for anything they might do. They might run it,
(07:36):
they might throw it. You know, it can be anything
which does make and the Lions know that you know,
obviously fourth and goal from the seven, if they decide
to go for that, you're going, okay, they're probably gonna
throw the ball here right well, fourth and goal from
the two, you don't know. And and the Lions use
that to their advantage because because those running backs are
(07:56):
so tough and are capable of of pounding those balls
in from the goal line. The Packers actually did a
really good job stopping the other than the very first
one at the beginning of the game, stopping those guys
from getting the rushing guests. They made Jared Goff throw
the ball into the end zone. But unfortunately they unfortunately
(08:16):
they weren't able to stop those It was really it
was really disappointing to see on the second fourth and
goal where they scored in the second half, that the
Lions came out of the huddle and kind of quick
snapped on the Packers and the defense wasn't set and
wasn't ready right. That's the kind of thing that can't
happen in a crucial situation like that. And and you know,
(08:38):
it's not like the Lions been do and hurry up
stuff and this and that throughout the game. It's like boom,
they just you know, they came out of the huddle
and they're like they rush up to the line and
snapped the ball, and you know they caught the Packers
to you have to give them credit. And if you're
the Packers, you have to say that that can't happen.
You have to be ready for the Lions to try
something different at any moment, and and they just they
(09:01):
That's how Detroit stays a step ahead of opponents most
of the time.
Speaker 2 (09:05):
And kudos to Dan Campbell and Ben Johnson on this too,
because green Bay, if you look at the film this year,
Mic and all these teams do when they're playing them,
green Bay has been extraordinary in goal to go against
the run this season. How many times has it been
where the Packers have actually gotten off the field there
or they found a way to turn over the football.
It happened again in this thing, and it happened primarily
because teams are trying to run against them and they're
(09:27):
not having success. Detroit made the right correction. They tried
to sneak it, they tried to run it, they tried everything,
and then finally they go back to the pass. They
trust their quarterback to make the right lead and he
achieves that. The disappointing thing for me is that Detroit
finishes this game, Michael, even with an a'man Ross Saint
Brown ten yard run, thirty four carries for one hundred
and eleven yards three point three yards per carry. Jamiir
(09:49):
Gibbs had forty three yards on fifteen carries. That's the
number three in the fan voting for the Pro Bowl
right now. Forty three yards on fifteen carries, and one
of those went for twenty yards. Green Bay helped them
in check a lot of the ways you have to
hold them in check. But the difficult thing about facing
the Detroit Lions is even if you keep them in
(10:10):
third and moderate, there's a chance they're still going to
go for it on fourth down. And when you stretch
out four plays like that while trying to get ten yards,
I mean, it's an aggressive mentality. We'll see whether or
not it's good enough to win a Super Bowl, yeah,
but certainly it's something that keeps you on edge the
entire time. And in this case, you know, obviously it
was probably the difference in the game. It was my
key to key to the game.
Speaker 1 (10:30):
So yeah, I agree, and that's where I wanted to
start with the positives in this game for Green Bay
because as much as you look at thirty four points
on the scoreboard, that's not what you're looking for defensively, obviously,
But I thought the Packers run defense, by and large,
was pretty darn good against maybe the best one to
two punch at running back in the league, certainly the
(10:50):
best one to two punch at running back the Packers
have faced. Yeah, this season in Montgomery and Gibbs, you
were throwing out some of the numbers. I went through
a few other numbers looking at specifically Montgomery and Gibbs.
Twenty nine carries between those two guys, and they didn't
have one hundred yards ninety four twenty nine for ninety four.
You will take that. I mean, credit to the Lions.
(11:11):
They stick with the run because they make you honor it.
And that is what helps out Jared Goff so much,
is because you do have to invest so much in
stopping the run. But those twenty nine carries between those
two backs, only five of them, Only five of those
twenty nine went for more than four yards. I mean,
twenty four out of twenty nine rushes by those two
(11:33):
running backs, the Packers held them to four yards or less.
That I think has been the most positive sign for
this defense moving forward. And as the Packers hit the
stretch run here and we're going to and again on
our next show, we'll talk about Seattle and what they're
doing with their running game, But the Packers' run defense
has been pretty darn good, and I think, I think
(11:53):
if that's something, and you know, Packers are banged up
now in the secondary, the injuries to Evan Williams and
Javon Bullered, and we'll see how this all shakes out
here the final month of the regular season, But if
the Packers can hang their hat on some solid run defense,
then you kind of you make the adjustments the rest
of the way, right with everything else that you have
to do. I thought, I thought green Bay's run defense
(12:17):
was darn good in this game.
Speaker 2 (12:18):
So it's a catch twenty two kind of situation here
because I thought green Bay almost sort of pushed Detroit
out of the run, but it forced them to sort
of synthesize that production with their screen game, which they
did do eleven catches for the two running backs between them,
So in one way, you look at that as almost
a little bit of a feather in the cap that
it's like, Okay, they had to find a different way
to generate early down yardage. But you still when you
(12:42):
look at what green Bay did the two games going
into this, and I don't remember the exact stats, but
I think it was thirty carries for eighty three yards.
In the two previous games, Packers hadn't had a stretch
like that. I think only two stretches like that since
like nineteen fifty where they had back to back games
where they held teams in check that much. Yeah, without
allowing a rushing touchdown. Sure, so that's that is a
(13:04):
positive and I draw a lot from that. I think conversely,
green Bay had their own struggles trying to get the
run game going, but this game again proved that even
if things aren't blocked up perfectly, Josh Jacobs is gonna
make you right. My key to victory for this game, Mike,
was the Packers need to run the ball better than
Detroit did. They didn't technically do that when you look
(13:26):
at the total yardage when you look at some of
those things, But again, I will look at Josh Jacobs
and what he has done and the way he has
been able to really make that running game and own
it and make that his own goes over a thousand
yards for the season. Now has eight rushing touchdowns in
his last four games, a streak that we have not
seen outside of Aaron Jones. This guy is legitimate, and
(13:49):
I just think when Green Bay is gonna be if
you can keep him healthy, get to the postseason with him.
I mean, I think number eight is going to do
some real damage. So run defense, run offense. Things did
you can correct on both sides of those things. But
the more and more I watched Josh Jacobs Mike and
I know I went on kind of my own little
(14:10):
tangent there. I just green Bay struggled for so long.
And this goes back to McCarthy era. It's not even
just on Matt Lafleurke. Sure, they struggled so long on
goal to go situations and what do you do when
you're at the two or three yard line. You know,
John Cohn used to take some of those handoffs, and
they tried to, you know, other running backs that aren't
always successful with it.
Speaker 1 (14:28):
And we saw for a few years it just became
the DeVante Adams show that Aaron Rodgers to DeVante Adams.
That's how when the Packers got inside the five, that
was you know, other than the one year, the one
year Aaron Jones had the sixteen rushing touchdowns, which I
believe was Matt Lafleur's first season. Jones had sixteen rushing
touchdowns that year. Other than that, it always felt like
(14:48):
it was just it was like either Adams was gonna
Adams was going to get the ball in goal to go,
or the Packers might be kicking a field goal. So
I totally get where you're coming from.
Speaker 2 (14:57):
Yeah, so I mean him having so Jacob's having a
three touchdown game, you know, and that's the hard part too.
You have you have Christian Watson where he has the
early fumble, but kind of like his game last year
against the Lions, I thought Christian Watson was really critical
of what green Bay did and if at the very least,
I mean we could talk about the OPI if you
want to, but the forty six yarder to start the
(15:17):
second half, I mean that was huge to be for
green Bay to get that play early on, get that score,
that response to how the first half ended, and it
nearly was enough to pull out this win.
Speaker 1 (15:29):
That's what I was going to say with regard to Watson,
I wanted to point out that, you know, he did
everything he could to make up for at that early fit.
The four receptions for one hundred and fourteen yards, the
big one down the sideline early in the third quarter,
all of that, you know, Watson, Watson was the explosive play,
(15:51):
was the explosive play guy. We saw don Tavian Wicks
get involved again. Four catches forty nine yards. Romeo Dobbs
missed this game, he was still in the was still
on the concussion protocol. So what Don Tavianooks was able
to contribute. We saw Tucker Craft again. He was doing
his Tucker Craft things. Three catches forty one yards, gets
the touchdown, the twenty one yard reception where he kind
(16:13):
of gets labeled there near the goal line, but does
the kip up and now he becomes, you know, a
social media hero and everything with Sean michaels I Love
West has a story on that on packers dot com.
By the way, for those who are interested in what
Tucker Craft had to say about all the attention that
that play has gotten.
Speaker 2 (16:33):
This guy, man, I'm telling you, dude, like they're gonna
build statues for him if he plays long enough. I mean,
touchdowns are great. He has seven of them, leads the team.
He's over five hundred receiving yards on the year. But
those type of plays his mentality. He said it to
Bill Hubert after the game, and then he was talking
with us in the locker room on Monday about it.
(16:54):
He did not want to let Jack Campbell, Kirby Joseph,
any of those guys get any type of jew any
type of momentum off that play for laying him out.
He wanted to do something that was going to tell
them I'm still here. And he got to his feet
quicker than Jack Campbell did. Those are the type of
ball players you want to have on your team. It's
not about what you say. It's not about throwing your
(17:15):
helmet at someone's kneecap. It is about how you respond
in moments in which physicality are warranted. Tucker Craft did that,
and this dude, man, I'm telling you, when you're talking
about heartbeat players, heart and soul players, guys that you
want to ride with you want to have your identity
(17:36):
built around. It's Tucker Craft because he does it the
right way. He's not looking to go out there and
injure people. He's not going out there to try to
be somebody that is going to become this big quote afterwards.
He wants to go play football. He did it that
way in South Dakota. He's doing it that way in
Green Bay, Wisconsin. He is going to play the game
the right way. And I can't tell you how much
(17:56):
respect I had for him. And I got to say
this too before you we go is a different direction.
The way we handle our things. People that are frequent
watches of our shows, read our content, you're at the
postgame press conferences. I'm in the locker room. I need
to say this once. Christian Watson again proved why again
(18:19):
while you have a heart and soul player like Tucker Kraft,
the way Christian Watson handles himself and the emotions that
were felt after that game, the fumble, the OPI, he
stood at his locker, his visiting room locker, and talked
about how it's on him. It's not about the officials,
it's not about what happened in the game. It's up
(18:41):
to him. If Kirby Joseph steps up and stops and
basically sets a screen, He's got to find a way
around it. If there's a fumble after a twenty yard catch,
he has to find a way to protect the ball better.
Christian Watson, Man, when you're building the culture of team,
and I've said a newnumerous times this season, when you
been in diversity hits, that really shows the true character
(19:03):
of an individual. I wish my character was stronger. It's not,
I'm gonna be honest with you, but I think Christian
Watson embodies everything you wanted a professional football player, and
that Mike is the end of my diet trip.
Speaker 1 (19:15):
All right, Well, he is a true pro. I want
to make a couple more points on this.
Speaker 2 (19:20):
Game, please do I just made twelve.
Speaker 1 (19:21):
Move on, No, that's okay. Because I realized this as
I was kind of jotting down some notes that I
know we call this Packers unscripted, but I was jotting
down some notes for the show and I didn't realize
it until this moment be talking about the Packers defense
and how I started that whole discussion by saying, Hey,
the Lions are going to get their yards, They're going
to get their points. Right. The Packers' defense in this
(19:44):
game had back to back stops in the first half
and had back to back stops in the second half.
The difference in the game, quite frankly, was what the
Packers offense did in those moments. The back to back
stops in the second half, the interception and the fourth
downstop were turned into two touchdowns. The back to back
stops in the first half a punt from midfield and
(20:06):
then a fumble, and you get no points off of those.
So in a game where you know your defense is
going to be taxed because the Lions are explosive and
dangerous and efficient and they will grind you into the
earth offensively, the times that the Packers defense had the
upper hand, the offense only cashed in on that sort
(20:29):
of in sort of half the time instead of all
the time, which is what you need to do when
your defense does get those stops. And then before we
move on, I'm going to make one comment about the officiating.
Oh good, because I thought and I've thought this one
through and I'm not even going to talk about other
than to say it right now. The OPI on Watson
and the Kirby Joseph collision and all that, I'm leaving
(20:50):
that one aside because what bothered me when I looked
at this game as a whole, and a lot of
people talking about the missed calls in this call and
the non call here and what ever, what bothered me
the most about the officiating in this game are two
calls that were about as inconsistent as you can get
(21:12):
in this league. And what I'm talking about are the
opening possession for the for Detroit, they have third and
goal in the seven yard line and Keishawn Nixon gets
called for illegal contact in the end zone when the
receiver runs into him. So the incomplete pass doesn't count.
Speaker 2 (21:28):
It's just a call.
Speaker 1 (21:29):
The incomplete pass doesn't count. The So instead of kicking,
I'm assuming the Lions wouldn't have gone forward on fourth
and goal from the seven. Maybe that's a poor assumption,
but I'm thinking they would kick the field goal there
on the opening drive of the game. But instead they
get a first and goal inside the five and they
punch it in. I don't think the illegal contact had
a whole lot of impact on the play, but by
(21:51):
the letter of the law, if you say that's illegal contact, okay. Five.
But then on the last possession of the game, the Packers,
after a holding penalty on Detroit have the Lions in
second and seventeen and i'man ross. Saint Brown runs a
deep end cut, shoves Keishaw Nixon out of the way,
and catches a sixteen yard pass to make it third
(22:12):
and one. What bothers me the most about NFL officiating
is Kishawn Nixon getting called for that illegal contact on
the opening drive of the game, which is a four
point call. And then they don't call the push off
by the offensive player on the last possession of the game,
which instead of they call that it's second in twenty
(22:33):
seven from near midfield and instead it's third and one. Yep,
it's a twenty six yard swing. So one call is
a four point swing, the other call is a twenty
six yard swing. And there is zero consistency whatsoever with
how those how those two calls are made. So I'll
let you comment if you want to. I'm gonna leave
it at that. That is what is the most frustrating
(22:56):
thing about officiating in the NFL and how it imps
these very important games.
Speaker 2 (23:02):
My Grandma Mary used to always uh save her coffee
and the next morning would re brew it, rewarm it up.
And I feel like that's what you've just done to
me with this officiating topic. As I had cooled off
and now going through that, which was a very good,
very convincing, very well articulated.
Speaker 1 (23:23):
All I'm all I'm saying. All I'm saying is if
if both of those if both of those calls are
if both of those are called in a consistent manner,
either the Lions have four fewer points on the board
or the Packers are probably getting the ball back at
least at the end of the ball game. So that's
that's that's my point.
Speaker 2 (23:43):
Let me So you know, Christian Watson was talking about
how he had to do things differently. I can tell
you one thing that Keishaw Nixon needed to do differently
after the shove from mom Andree Saint Brown is he
needed to act like he got hit by a mac
truck and bounce down the field for about five or
ten yards because that's the only way John halse and
his crew are catching stuff. I'm gonna say this once
(24:07):
and we'll move on from it. If I don't see
a John Hussey officiated game the rest of the season,
I'll be totally fine with that.
Speaker 1 (24:13):
I will second that motion.
Speaker 2 (24:14):
This in my opinion was the worst officiated game the
Packers have been a part of since the twenty twenty
NFC Championship game.
Speaker 1 (24:21):
In Michael, I would agree with that.
Speaker 2 (24:23):
Why am I saying that because of the consistency of
the calls. One of the reasons why I always praise
Bill Venovich, why I always praise some of these crews
across the league is one, you call the stuff that
matters in the moments that it mattered. Otherwise, it's football.
You can you can throw a flag on every play
if you want to at the critical times calling those
(24:44):
calling those types of penalties in two though, the overarching
thing to all this is just like teams have their
own game plans, just like they have their own adjustments,
officials need to be understanding of how they are calling
a game and stick to that standard. That's six seven,
eight people all working together, understanding the way in which
they're going to go through this thing. I deleted this
(25:07):
from Insider Inbox on Saturday, but I'm going to say
it now. There was not a single call made in
that game amongst professional officials that I don't think A
four man crew in the WIA and Wisconsin high school
football couldn't have made There was nothing I saw in
that game. Everything that they called was either a deliberate reaction.
(25:29):
You know, we talk about the Dan Skipper incident there
with kway Walker, and I'm telling you this right now,
Packer fans layoff kowy Walker. It's going to get corrected.
The issues that whatever the coaching staff wants to do
with kay Walker, they're going to handle that. What happened
in that incident, that could have been any linebacker. I
understand Quay shoved him back. I understand that there's a
(25:50):
history there. I get that. Don't tell me that Dan
Skipper didn't know that, especially the way that he was
handling himself throughout the course of that game, the way
that this thing went down. You move past it, You
move on. Players aren't going to talk about it. Coaches
aren't going to talk about it. Don't want to get fined.
I don't think I can get fined. We'll see. But
(26:12):
this game, Buy and Large Detroit was a better team.
Matt Laflor says it all the time. Yep, you have
to play above the officials. Green Bay didn't. But my god, man,
like this was one of those games where I got
done with it. I'm just like, this is what the
NFL wants, this is this is how they want their
game officiated, and yeah that's how it goes.
Speaker 1 (26:28):
Yeah it's too bad, but we will move on and
first to some sponsor business. Serious XMNFL Radio delivers hard
hitting analysis and up to the minute NFL news that
true football fanatics need twenty four to seven, three sixty
five and I Cousin Subs. We have something for everyone
like our Wisconsin cheese kurds, mac and cheese, golden fries,
and creamy shakes, all paired with your favorite sub or
sub in a bowl. Cousin Subs fifty plus years of better.
Speaker 2 (26:52):
Hey, I want to close on one. Well, we'll get
to all the other games quick, but I want to
close this discussion on the lines. Though, I will say this,
I'm a huge pro wrestling Mark kind of mention it
there with the whole Tucker Craft thing. I love the
rivalry of this thing, though, I do. Oh yeah, the
packers and lines. And I said this with a couple
of my comments on Twitter and on inbox the last
(27:12):
few days, like this is as cool and as real
and as true of a rivalry as I've felt during
my time you were there NFC Championship game in twenty ten,
I was, and I don't know what that felt like
with you know, Jay Cutler and all that. By the
time I started coming the team, Jay was sort of
already on the other end of that. But I mean, yeah,
it was competitive with the Vikings for a few years,
and there's these moments there, But in terms of just
(27:34):
the perennialness of this, it feels like this is something
that's going to go on for years. And I love
that because I think that's when football's at its best.
Pro wrestling sells its storylines based on the feelings that
it is evoking, and I feel like, especially in my
own personality, there's plenty of feelings that I feel right
now between the Scream Band Detroit thing. So we'll see
(27:56):
whether or not they see him again this season, but
if they do, it's gonna be a boat look fun.
Speaker 1 (28:00):
Yeah, And I hope, and we're not going to get
ahead of ourselves, but I hope. We're doing a show
previewing Round three of Packers Lions in the twenty twenty
four slash twenty five season. Where things stand right now
in the NFC North Detroit is twelve and one, Minnesota
is eleven and two. Green Bay is nine and four.
As we talked about last week, losing this game takes
(28:23):
the division out of the picture. For green Bay, it
is now wildcard or bust. The good news is the
Packers are in very good position to get a wild card.
It would appear that if they were at nine and
four right now, if they can get to eleven wins,
they will almost one hundred percent assuredly be in the playoffs,
and they may be able to get there depending on
(28:44):
how some other things fall. They may be able to
get there with ten wins, and they will be going
for their tenth win this weekend out in Seattle, yet
another primetime game Sunday Night Football, and Seattle was certainly
involved in one of the more significant results in the NFL.
From Week fourteen. They went on the road. Two weeks
(29:04):
after beating Arizona in Seattle, they went on the road
to Arizona for the rematch against their division rival and
they beat them again. So that is now four straight
wins for the Seattle Seahawks. They are sitting atop the
NFC West, a division that was kind of a big
muddled mess there for a while. Now has a clear
(29:25):
front runner, and it is the Seattle Seahawks, and that
is the Packer's opponent. We'll get into them a little
bit more on our next show. But the way things
are shaping up, you know, the Packers are in tremendously
good position to get a wild card spot and to
(29:46):
try to make another run at this thing like they
did last season.
Speaker 2 (29:48):
Yeah, very much so. In a win over the Seattle
Seahawks on Sunday Night football go a long way into
achieving that. What I found interesting about the game that
the Seahawks played against the Cardinals, because it was their
second time facing Theme in three weeks, it was a
different recipe for how they won this thing. They don't
have Kenneth Walker the third, so Zach Charbonnet has to
go in there. He's played a little bit this season.
(30:10):
Balls out probably their best rushing performance this season. This
is not a great running football team. One of the
things the points I'm making an insider inbox for Wednesday
is that in this shift to Gino Smith and obviously
Pete Carroll's no longer there, but they've changed the complete
chemistry of their offense. It went from a very run heavy.
This team's every year with Russell Wilson is gonna be
(30:32):
a top five rushing offense to like their twenty seventh
or twenty eighth in the NFL. And they are passing
at nauseum. Now, some of that's because of the games
in which they're playing, but that's also kind of the
way that Geno Smith plays this game though illustrated one
what happens when Gino doesn't throw an interception. They won
the takeaways and they were able to establish the run.
(30:52):
A lot of lessons Green Bay is going to be
able to learn from that going into this matchup. But
four game winning streak Now for Seattle, a division where
they were looking for somebody to sort of claw up
to the top of this heap, it's them and it
looks like the Rams are right behind him. Now, So yeah,
I have an impressive win. And I mean talk about
a tone setter within your division to be able to
(31:16):
knock back Arizona, knock them out of the lead, and
then have them, you know, really push them down a
little bit in a matter of three weeks. Yeah, that
was a big momentum changer here for the Seahawks.
Speaker 1 (31:26):
Yeah, Kyler Murray a few weeks ago in Seattle, was
only able to put six points on the board and
threw a killer pick six in that game that allowed
Seattle to win the first one, and then he threw
two just terrible interceptions in the first quarter of the
rematch that the Seahawks turned both of those into touchdowns,
built a multi score lead, and pretty much kept it
(31:47):
there the rest of the way. So you look at
just how the Seahawks have have beaten the Cardinals twice
in the last three weeks, it's because of it's because
of the turnovers, the opposing quarter back, and certainly Jordan
Love has done a much better job taking care of
the football lately. The fumble we talked about with Christian
Wattson was that's the Packers only giveaway only turnover offensively
(32:12):
in the last three games, really three and a half games.
Going back, you go back to the first half in Chicago,
the interception down by the goal line. The Packers had
gone a long stretch without turning the ball over, so
that will matter as well. Before we go, just your
thoughts quickly. You mentioned the Rams forty four to forty two,
highest scoring game in the NFL this year. They pull
(32:34):
it out over the Buffalo Bills to keep the Rams
very much in the playoff hunt at this point. And
I don't know if you saw the end of that game,
I don't know what in the world Buffalo is thinking
when you're on the one yard line and you have
all three of your timeouts to potentially take on defense
with you, and you call a quarterback sneak, which then
(32:57):
fails and you have to burn your one time out,
which then puts the game entirely on the on sidekick
instead of giving your defense a chance to actually give
you one more shot. I don't even know what, because
what would possess anybody in that situation to call a
quarterback sneak or even yeah, or even just burning the
first time out because the quarterback sneak feels you're better
(33:20):
off hurrying up, spiking the ball and be having third
and goal on the one rather than burning the timeout
that you burn. It was such a it was such
a complete cluster of how they managed the clock at
the end of that game to they just they they
had a chance to pull off an amazing comeback and
they blew it because of clock management. It was it
(33:40):
was it was disappointing. I I enjoy watching the Buffalo Bills.
I enjoy watching Josh Allen, and I was really hoping
they might be able to pull that one out.
Speaker 2 (33:48):
One the Bills are dead to me now. I was
kind of pulling for them for a while, and then
they go and muddle this up against the Rams, which
could have really helped out with green Bays playoff chance.
I think it was this game alone that actually made
Bay's wild card chances go from ninety nine to ninety
eight percent. Hey, listen, two things Buffalo forgot how they
beat the forty nine ers in this game. Like it's
(34:11):
like they go completely away from the run, they fall
behind early, they're passing, and then at that very minute,
it seems like they always fall into this trap where
they forget that Josh Allen. Yes he can run, and
yes he can score touchdowns with his feet, but he
is a quarterback and he's probably one of the top
three guys in the NFL, and they just resort to
these type of things. Well, he's you know, to under
and however many pounds he's going to get himself in,
(34:32):
he doesn't. And you know, they I thought they, you know,
maybe it's the wake up call they needed kind of
like I felt like in some ways, you know, Kansas
City a couple of weeks ago had a wake up
call they needed. But the fact of the matter is
is that the Rams and what they did in this game.
I thought, Matthew Stafford, this is probably his best game
of the season. Poka Nakua. They're using him in different ways.
Speaker 1 (34:51):
Now, that was a monster game by Nikua.
Speaker 2 (34:53):
Yeah he was, he was.
Speaker 1 (34:56):
When he's right, the guy is just said an egamic
football playeres. He completely changes the complexion of that Rams offense,
which of course the Packers did not see that when
Green Bay played La because both Nikoua and Cup were
out of the game, were injured and not playing in
that game. But but yeah, it'd be interesting to see
now what the Rams do with this, because everybody is saying, now,
(35:16):
you know, they put up forty four points, like, oh,
the Rams are danger. Nobody seems to be talking about
the fact that the Rams just gave up forty two. Yes,
for sure, So how much does that make you a
legitimate playoff.
Speaker 2 (35:26):
Because I don't know.
Speaker 1 (35:27):
I think the worst Defasius Stafford has been there and
done that. They have a lot of weapons on offense,
can their defense actually put together the run that they
need to get a playoff spot here we'll see.
Speaker 2 (35:36):
Yeah, no, I mean, at very least it's going to
keep things interesting in the NFC West. A lot of
those matchups are in the balance, hovering in the balance.
Speaker 1 (35:43):
Rams are just trying to get to the final game
of the season, one game back of the Seahawks because
then they play Seattle in Week eighteen and they essentially
steal the division there by by beating them to sweep
them and get the tie and then they would win
the tie breaker based on the sweep. So the Rams
are trying to stay one game back of the Seahawks.
So Rams fans are big Packers fans this week, quite frankly,
(36:06):
because they'd like to see the Packers knock off the Seahawks.
Speaker 2 (36:09):
Last two things really quick. Yeah. San Francisco ran the
Bears out of the building Bears head.
Speaker 1 (36:14):
Oh my gosh.
Speaker 2 (36:15):
Total yards of offense in the first.
Speaker 1 (36:16):
Half, Yeah, first half total yards I believe was three
hundred and nineteen to four.
Speaker 2 (36:20):
Yeah. Another reminder, I just want to say this. I
was talking to some people in the locker room about
this on Monday. I get the people were not high
on Matt Eberflus. I understand what happened, but putting your
passive game coordinator in making him the interim offensive coordinator
and then making him the interim head coach might not
be the best recipe for having success. That's a tough
(36:43):
echelon to climb in like four weeks. But then I
want to close on this. Kansas City is the final boss.
No matter what, Kansas City is the final boss. You
think you got him, you don't got them. You don't
got them.
Speaker 1 (36:56):
They are They are somehow, some way going to win
the game, including their third kicker of the season clanking
a chip shot off the upright but bank shot, bank
shot with the correct angle and it goes in, and
the Kansas City Chiefs win yet another game, and which
(37:16):
was huge because they now have it because of the
Buffalo loss. Yeah, Kansas City now has a two game
cushion with four games to go to get the number
one seed and the buy in the AFC of position
that the Buffalo Bills and the Pittsburgh Steelers were hoping
to push for. But now both of those clubs are
two games back with four to go because of the
(37:40):
bank shot.
Speaker 2 (37:40):
I love to the fact that you're talking about teams
being two big games behind. Denver now holds a two
game advantage over Indianapolis and Miami for this number seven
seed in the playoffs. Yeah, with a month left to play,
things can still change. But there are six teams that
have been eliminated from playoff contention in the AFC. What
is there two in the or there's yeah, there's there's one.
(38:05):
The Giants are eliminated in the NFC. That's it.
Speaker 1 (38:08):
Well, and you talk about you talk about Miami. They
they basically barely stayed alive by by winning in overtime
against the Jets, a big field goal at the end
of regulation and then they drive, They get the opening
drive of the overtime, go down and get a touchdown,
Aaron Rodgers doesn't get the ball back and and Miami
State Miami stays within shouting distance of that final wildcard
(38:30):
spot in the AFC.
Speaker 2 (38:31):
Everyone chasing bo Nix.
Speaker 1 (38:33):
Buckle up, folks, these last what a week that was?
That are going to be fun. We've gone way overtime
today and apologies to our producer Zach, but we know
if he'll deal with it.
Speaker 2 (38:42):
Only did one show last week. We had a lot
to get off our chest.
Speaker 1 (38:44):
That's true, but I do also have to say that,
oh yeah, I'm of The twenty twenty five NFL Draft
is right here in Green Bay April twenty four through
April twenty six of twenty twenty five. Visit green Bay
dot com slash Draft twenty five for more information, and
with that we'll call it a rap on this edition
a Packers Unscripted. I'm sure to follow all of our
coverage of the team on Packers dot com for Westside Mike.
(39:04):
Thank you for tuning in, everybody, and we will see
you next time.
Popular Podcasts
Stuff You Should Know
If you've ever wanted to know about champagne, satanism, the Stonewall Uprising, chaos theory, LSD, El Nino, true crime and Rosa Parks, then look no further. Josh and Chuck have you covered.
Dateline NBC
Current and classic episodes, featuring compelling true-crime mysteries, powerful documentaries and in-depth investigations. Follow now to get the latest episodes of Dateline NBC completely free, or subscribe to Dateline Premium for ad-free listening and exclusive bonus content: DatelinePremium.com
On Purpose with Jay Shetty
I’m Jay Shetty host of On Purpose the worlds #1 Mental Health podcast and I’m so grateful you found us. I started this podcast 5 years ago to invite you into conversations and workshops that are designed to help make you happier, healthier and more healed. I believe that when you (yes you) feel seen, heard and understood you’re able to deal with relationship struggles, work challenges and life’s ups and downs with more ease and grace. I interview experts, celebrities, thought leaders and athletes so that we can grow our mindset, build better habits and uncover a side of them we’ve never seen before. New episodes every Monday and Friday. Your support means the world to me and I don’t take it for granted — click the follow button and leave a review to help us spread the love with On Purpose. I can’t wait for you to listen to your first or 500th episode!