May 9, 2025 • 28 mins
Mike and Wes discuss their thoughts on the Packers' offseason moves, making their choices for most significant (1:10), most curious (6:00), greatest immediate impact (13:02), and most surprising (17:26). They also contemplate Mark Murphy's legacy (22:37).
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:10):
Hi, everybody.
Speaker 2 (00:11):
Welcome to another edition of Packers unscripted from Packers dot Com.
I am like Spofford, joined by the one and only
Wes Hodkowitz.
Speaker 1 (00:19):
We're coming to you.
Speaker 2 (00:19):
Hear from our studios at lambeau Field. Wes our comeback episode.
I know you don't want to call it that, but
I'm going to our comeback episode. On Tuesday, we reviewed
the off season to this point for the Green Bay Packers,
looking at various key positions and how things have changed
(00:39):
shape for the twenty twenty five Packers. I want to
continue to review the twenty twenty five off season to
this point, but in a little bit different way in
that I'm going to throw a question at you, okay,
and then I'll let you answer it, and then I
will also answer it. And as usual, I didn't prep
you with the questions in advance. You're perhaps going to
(01:01):
steal one of my answers and I will just have
to react.
Speaker 1 (01:04):
And deal with it if that happens.
Speaker 3 (01:07):
Nice.
Speaker 2 (01:07):
But first question, of all of the off season moves
the Packers have made, and here where I'm talking about
signings in free agency, re signing your own players, what's
happened in the draft, what's happened with the coaching staff,
like any and everything that encompasses the Packers off season.
What would you point to right now as the most
(01:29):
significant Brandon McManus.
Speaker 3 (01:32):
Okay, and let's just be honest, Mike. I mean, the
green Bay Packers went through a roller coaster through the
first relatively month and a half, and really the whole
off season I think they went and cycled through was
at seven different kickers before ultimately McManus ended up coming
and sort of saving the season for green Bay. The
fact that the Packers ranked in the middle of the
pack and field goal accuracy after how things started. In
(01:55):
no disrespect to Brandon Narvisen, but you had a rookie
kicker coming in that gets claimed at the end of
kay and has to come in and he's in a
new spot, and I felt like McManus was the one
that started the turnaround for green Bay special teams. It
felt like, yes, it was the field goal unit and
all of that, but it also just felt like everything
sort of synked up a little bit more in You
(02:16):
and I on Tuesday's show, we were discussing these different
positions and potential battles. Michael, when was the last time
the Packers on this day, you know, in May of
twenty twenty five, third week of the offseason program, have
had one kicker, one punter in one long snapper in
addition to obviously Alex Hale the international player exemption. But
(02:39):
right now, it's about his stables. It's been in years
as far as being able to maintain and keep Brandon
McManus in the fold and for him to have the
season that he had with only two miss field goals
the entire way. Certainly one of them was obviously in
the game against Philadelphia, but this was such a massive
(02:59):
sing for Green Bay in the middle of the season,
and to be able to extend him and keep him around,
I think is going to have a huge impact on
those we fence and the special teams units going forward.
Speaker 2 (03:09):
Yeah, and I like that. I like that choice. I
think for me as far as as of right now
looking at things right now, the one that I feel
is the most significant was the free agent signing of
Nate Hobbs at cornerback. And I say that for a
couple reasons. One, obviously, the situation with Jay or Alexander
(03:30):
is still not resolved. We're not quite sure where that's
gonna go. At the time that the Packers made the
signing of Hobbs, there there wasn't any certainty as to
as to how things were gonna unfold with Alexander, So
so it's significant from that standpoint. I think it's also significant,
as we talked about on our last show, how the
(03:51):
Packers are investing in another defensive back who they feel
they can line up in different places. You know, it's
another key Sewn Nixon, who whom they feel can line
up and defend on the boundary but also line up
and and play in the slot, and giving Jeff Haffley
and this defense that many you know, yet another movable
(04:13):
part among many movable parts in his secondary And then
the other reason I would say it was significant. And
this is a little bit sort of revisionist history in
a weird sort of way if you follow if you
follow along here, But I think but it became significant
because the I would have I would have almost bet
(04:37):
my house that the Packers were going to draft a
cornerback within the first four rounds of this draft, not
saying it was had to be the first round pick,
but I thought just within the first one hundred and
fifty picks of this draft, the Packers were going to
take a cornerback and the board just didn't fall that
way for them. I think if the board falls a
(04:57):
certain way, they probably do, but the board didn't fall
that way, and they end up actually not getting a
cornerback until the seventh round with Micah Robinson and then
as I mentioned, also bringing in a highly touted, undrafted
player in Jonathan Baldwin who many people thought would be drafted.
But the reason that it makes the Hobbs signing that
(05:18):
much more significant, not only because of just what you
did for the cornerback room and bringing in a veteran,
but with the board not falling the way you were
hoping or maybe thinking it would fall during the draft,
they didn't have to just go out and reach for
a cornerback and oh, we got to make sure we
get one of these guys before they're gone. The signing
of Hobbs, like even with the cornerback board didn't fall
(05:41):
quite right in the draft, but Brian Gudacunz could still
just sit back and say, hey, it's okay, We're all right,
you know we you know, the Alexander thing is still
up in the air. But we brought in Hobbs, we
have Nixon, There's Carrington Valentine, you know there. So I
think the I think the Hobbs signing was was really
significant for a lot of reasons. There question number two,
(06:02):
which off season move of everything that has happened to
this point, are you most curious to see.
Speaker 1 (06:10):
What results from it?
Speaker 2 (06:11):
Oo?
Speaker 1 (06:14):
Wow, I know that's a tough one.
Speaker 3 (06:16):
Mike's I'm putting off for bringing fast On.
Speaker 1 (06:19):
I'm putting you, I'm putting you on the spot here.
Speaker 3 (06:21):
Okay, So this is accounting the draft class as well. Sure, yeah,
it's the use I could answer this two ways. Okay,
but can I start with the draft class? Pudes, because
we were asking me the question, which which move entices
me the most? Which will move I'm most excited to
see it's saveon Williams because it's just because when you
have a guy that is utilized the way he was
(06:43):
utilized at TCU, and I think you and I would
both agree just based on the depth of the received position,
he's not going to have that many opportunities, you would think.
I mean, it was like they were building the whole
offense around him. Uh. At Texas Christian so what aspects
of him his game. Does Matt Lafleur, Adam Stenovich, Jason
(07:04):
Rabel do they look to extract and utilize right out
of the gate, because I think he can help them,
But I couldn't tell you, based on his workload and
the multitude of ways that he was utilized in college,
exactly what he's going to do in Green Bay. Okay,
Be that as it may. The Isaiah Simmons one is
really interesting to me with the Packers signing him, and
(07:25):
it was the last move they've made in the free
agency window here. But this guy is five years removed
from being the eighth overall pick in the NFL Draft
and he's never missed a game because of injury. Incredibly durable,
played a lot of football for the Arizona Cardinals the
first two and a half years, and it's just sort
(07:47):
of been trying to find his spot, you know, ever
since that Cliff Kingsbury era ended in Arizona. So is
he going to be on special teams? You know? Is
he going to be a guy that you could potentially
sprinkle into the defense, will even up earning a role
on the defense, We don't know. But when you're talking
about low risk, high reward signings. I think Isaiah Simmons
(08:08):
might take the cake because the more I was listening
to Matt Lafleur discussed, you know, the conversations with him,
they brought him in for a visit, they signed him
two weeks later after the draft, when they didn't really
add any other inside linebackers, natural inside linebackers, right, So
it almost in a way sort of felt like the
Devandre Campbell's signing to me in twenty twenty one, where
(08:30):
it's this guy that's sort of sitting out there trying
to find the right opportunity and ultimately he settles on
green back.
Speaker 1 (08:35):
Yeah, that's an interesting way to look at it.
Speaker 2 (08:37):
And with regard to bringing Simmons in for a visit
and then you know it, at the signing ends up happening.
A couple weeks later, we heard from Matt Lafleur like
they were doing some more checking. They checked with Xavier
McKinney because he played with them, you know, with the Giants,
and you know, they were wanting to get more opinions
and more thoughts about him and whatnot. The two thumbs
(08:58):
up came from Xavier McKay and that was a factor
in that move as well. The most curious one for
me that I am I am interested to see what
results from it is the change at defensive line coach. Yeah, sure,
DeMarcus Covington being brought in to take over running the
Packers defensive line with with Jason Rebovich being being let go.
(09:24):
The reason this one stands out to me so much
is because for all of the discussion outside the building
about what are the Packers going to do about their
pass rush?
Speaker 1 (09:33):
You know, et cetera, et cetera. And we heard.
Speaker 2 (09:36):
From we heard from Brian Gutakunst at the combine in Indianapolis,
at the owners meetings down in Florida. He has a
lot of confidence in the players in that defensive front room,
the guys who are going to make up the pass rush. Now,
he said, Hey, guys need to progress, they need to
get better. They need to be more consistent, you know,
more reliable. You know, the as we talked about on
(09:58):
the last show. The progression is from guys like Lucas
van Ness the a little little more consistency and reliability
is expected from Rashaun Garry, the you know, the veteran guy,
and also from the interior guys Kenny Clark, DeVante Wyatt,
the guys who have been who have been there, done
that to this point, you know, need to need to
step up their games as well. But hearing all of
(10:19):
that throughout the off season about how Brian Gudokum's felt
about the Packers pass rush tells me they really feel
that Covington can make a difference with this unit, can
take the guys that the Packers have and get more
out of them and uh and try to push that
group forward in the way that in the way that's
been envisioned. So that's the one that has that has
(10:41):
my curiosity. And I think it's also and this was
pointed out a month or so ago by an insider
inbox reader, and I apologize for forgetting exactly who it was,
but it's also a very shrewd move on Matt Lafleur's
part to bring in a guy like Covington. He had
just risen over the last handful of years. He'd risen
(11:01):
from the bottom of the totem poll on Bill Belichick's
coaching staff in New England all the way up to
defensive coordinator for Jared Mayo in the first year after
Belichick is gone from the Patriots, and now New England
decided to clean house with the Mayo coaching staff, and
so this guy becomes available. But he's considered still a
rising star in the coaching ranks. He has a year
(11:24):
of experience as a defensive coordinator in the NFL, and
we all know that all it took was one year
for Jeff Hafley to be here, and he was getting
some overtures for possible head coach vacancy. So in that
larger picture of things, I think a very shrewd and
also intriguing and curious higher by Mattliffe.
Speaker 3 (11:45):
And while you are not wrong with the Jeff Hafley comparison,
I almost look at it, especially once I read more
about Comington's you know, credentials, He almost kind of reminds
me more of the Anthony Campinelli type higher where Campinelli
was rising through the ranks, was well respected as a
linebackers coach with Miami. He came here for one year
and now he's gonna be the defensive corner of the
(12:06):
Jacksonville Jaguars. Like That's the sort of trajectory Covington was on,
and obviously, unfortunately New England kind of had to restart
this year, and certainly I think there was that I
don't want to call an infatuation, but definitely that flirtation
with Mike Rabel going back there and you know, taking
that over and sort of continuing that even though he
didn't coach for him, that Bill Belichickian sort of mantra
(12:29):
that they've developed there. So Coventin's available, and I think
it's a great example of a guy coming in here
now where this is a big undertaking for the Packers,
and he also I think took on the run game
coordinator role as well, where you're trying to maintain what
you did against the run last year, as you've pointed out,
while improving upon the natural pass rush and getting more
(12:52):
out of those edge rushers. It's a big undertaking, but
he has a ton of weapons and a ton of
depth to be able to try doing.
Speaker 2 (12:59):
That question number three. I really like the comparison to
the Campanelli higher though. By the way, that's a thank you, Tom,
That's that's nicely done. Appreciate appreciate the addition to my
answer that question question number three. For you, what off
season move the Packers have made do you expect to
(13:19):
pay the most immediate dividends, the most the greatest immediate impact.
Speaker 1 (13:27):
Which one would you go?
Speaker 3 (13:28):
You know what you touched on it. I'm gonna pull
it back all right, and I'm gonna say Nate Hobbs signing, okay,
because here here's the thing you have to edit my
cider inbox column. Congratulations on that. And one of the
points I raised this week is the walls are breaking
down here between what teams consider to be perimeter cornerbacks
(13:49):
and slot nickel cornerbacks. There was a time I'll never
forget this in twenty fourteen where the Packers had this gridlock,
this logjam of cornerbacks. They couldn't get Devon House on
the field because he didn't play inside, but they had
a lot of options outside with Tremont Williams and I
believe at that time Sam Shields and what was his
(14:11):
Pro Bowl season after he resigned, So they had guys
they felt like could play, but they just couldn't get
him on the field. Now you're seeing this Nate Hobbs,
Keyshawn Nixon type of cornerback that depending on where you
need them, what the scheme is, what the game is,
what the matchups are and also what the injury situation
is where you can move these guys around. And I
(14:32):
think you're seeing that type of versatility and the value
in that versatility league wide. And as you and I
discussed with Hobbs and his signing, there's a lot of
projection there, but there's some proven ability to play both
inside and outside based on his time with the Raiders. Now,
all that being said, another analogy I threw out there,
another argument that I made in inbox was we always
(14:55):
look at these starting fives of offensive lines in the versatility,
I think you almost need maintain the same type of
approach with a secondary because in a lot of cases,
much like an offensive line, those guys are going to
be out there. Four of them certainly are likely going
to be out there at all times. Yeah, maybe five,
depending on what the matchup is. If you have that
many players that you're counting on to be on the field,
(15:17):
you have to have not only depth, but versatility to
replace that depth if injuries occur. I think Hobbs is
gonna be a big part of that for Jeff Hafley's defense.
And also the exciting thing is too last year it
was Halfley trying to figure out a lot of these
pieces that Green Bay already had in fitting them into
his defense. Now he's having the opportunity to look at
a guy like Nate Abbs and say, you know what,
(15:37):
I can do something with that guy.
Speaker 1 (15:39):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (15:39):
Yeah, I think that's a good point. My answer on
the most immediate dividends, I was actually going to go
with Brandon McManus on this because of just the idea
that for the first time in three years, the Packers
are heading heading into an off season, a training camp,
the start of a season with no questions about kickers
right since moving on from from Mason Crosby.
Speaker 1 (16:02):
So first time in three years they're in that.
Speaker 3 (16:04):
A better way of saying what I tried to say
in the first time, it's just it was it was
just it's not like Alex Haleyeah with him exactly.
Speaker 2 (16:11):
There are no questions about that position for the first
time in three years. I will go a slightly different direction,
but also rehash a little bit of what we talked
about on our next show. As far as immediate dividends,
I think it could be the selection of Matthew Golden
at the top of the draft in the first round,
because we saw and We've talked about so often, how
(16:32):
different team, how different lee defenses have to defend the Packers.
When Christian Watson is on the field, with the speed
that he brings and that and that fear that he
strikes of the big play, it just it dictates defensive alignments,
It dictates the way teams scheme up against you. And
when Watson has not been available, that's been that's made
(16:56):
things a lot harder on the Packers offense. So until
you get Christian Watson back sometime later in the fall,
second half of the season, whatever it's going to be,
even though he's golden, is a completely different player in
terms of body type and a different type of receiver.
You have replaced Christian Watson speed. Now you are putting
a guy on the field with that speed element that
(17:18):
defenses are going to have to account for now. So
that's why that would be my other answer to paying
the most immediate dividends, last one for you before I'll
take care of some sponsor business. Most surprising offensive off
season excuse me move for you?
Speaker 3 (17:37):
Well, I mean it's probably the Elton Jenkins him going
to center. I didn't anticipate that. I thought there was
a chance that Josh Meyers wouldn't be back. I remember,
I could tell you exactly what it seems like whenever
we always much as you and I joke about, like
when you go on PTO, something big usually happens. It
does seem like whenever the Packers make an unrestricted free
(17:58):
agency signing, like I'm always doing something. I'm out in
the area I'll never forget. I got done running over
at Meadowbrook Park in Howard, Wisconsin. I got back to
my car, I'm winded out of shape, sweating, and I'm
just leaning against my car and I pull out my
phone and says the Packers have signed Aaron Banks. And
immediately I'm like, okay, the guard from San Francisco. And
(18:20):
I'm thinking to myself, like, did he play center at
Notre Dame, Like as I just remembered him being the guy, yeah,
that replaced Quintin Nelson and then got drafted and basically
started a bulk of four years for San Francisco. And
it's like, no, he didn't. So once you step back
from it, it's a very logical move. I would take
Elton Jenkins at center over any of these guys that
(18:43):
were available on the market. I don't know a lot
about the draft class. But in terms of the unrestricted
free agents, we saw Atlanta, I should say from Atlanta.
The Bears sign was at Chris Dolman. I'm trying remember
what his name was, the new center that they got there.
I take Elton over that guy, like, I mean, it's
just it's just the way that this thing goes, so uh,
(19:05):
it surprised me. But that being said, uh, once you
step back a little bit, you start to understand the
method of the madness, so to speak.
Speaker 2 (19:13):
Yeah, and that was but that was my pick as well.
In terms of the signing of Aaron Banks, I thought
that was the most surprising. Dalmon Dalmon, Yes, no, that's okay.
It didn't come to me right away either. And I
was gonna say Drew and then I couldn't think of
the last name. So but no, I think the Bank
signing was surprising because as we headed into free agency,
(19:35):
all the talk goes, Okay, are the Packers gonna do
something at receiver? Are they gonna do something you know
with uh with the pass rush? Where are they gonna
spend the money? And then and then you know, boom,
the first the first one we find out about Oh,
it's an offensive lineman and they're gonna take their two
time Pro Bowl guard and kick them over to center.
So I agree with you on that one being surprising.
The other one I'll throw out there because it it
(19:59):
kind of goes along with with what you were talking
about with Isaiah Simmons. But it's a it's bringing in
Mkole Hardman at at wide receiver because he wasn't a
guy at the top of free agent market or anything
like that at at wide receiver. And when it didn't
surprise me that Gudakuns didn't go there at receiver, I
did feel that he was going to go into this
(20:20):
draft and I said it many times an insider inbox,
that he was going to try to look for the
next Christian Watson in this draft or the or you know,
the next potential guy like that. And he did draft
the fastest, the fastest receiver of all the guys at
the combine. But once uh, you know, once free agency
had sort of been going for a while I and
(20:40):
the draft is still hanging out there, I didn't I
just didn't expect him to bring in any receiver to
a room that is already you know, kind of crowded
when you've got when you've got a you know, wide
receiver five six types like Malie Keith and bow Melton
who had played and done some things and contributed in
games and and still trying to establish themselves in the league.
That you know, bringing in a veteran like Hardman, you know,
(21:03):
kind of later in free agency into that room. Now
they're gonna look at him as a returner. He's got
some he's got some other abilities as far as different
ways to get him the ball kind of thing like
Lake Sabean Williams. But just that, you know, that move
kind of surprised me because at that at that point
in free agency I just didn't necessarily think the Packers
are going to be looking at wide receivers there.
Speaker 3 (21:23):
The one thing that Brian has done, Godkuns has done
an exceptional job of is he definitely has kicked the
tires on players, more veteran players, more than Ted did.
Speaker 1 (21:34):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (21:34):
Ted would do it occasionally, and it would usually end
up being like during training camp when like a Cedric
Benson would come in because there's just a deluge of
injuries at a position like for example, in that case,
running back. Brian since the day he got hired. I mean,
I think a Byron Bell and some of these other
guys I mean certainly Mercedes Lewis coming in and ended
up playing five years for him. These guys that aren't
(21:56):
the top of the wire, guys that are affected the
pensatory process. Brian has been willing to take a look,
and sometimes it doesn't work out, but then sometimes you
do find somebody. And that's one thing I think the
Packers have definitely benefited from over the last five six years.
Speaker 2 (22:12):
Yeah, all right, Well, one other topic I want to
get to, but I will take care of sponsor business.
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(22:32):
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Speaker 1 (22:38):
All right, last topic.
Speaker 2 (22:39):
To hit on today because and I wanted to talk
about this before the draft. The draft being hosted by
Green Bay gets too far into the rearview mirror. I
think we can all agree that bringing the Draft to
Green Bay, and as successful as the entire production was,
the crowds, the spectacle, everything with the stage, and then
(23:00):
the selections of Golden and Currel in the fourth round
and just all that, the whole thing kind of becomes
the crown jewel of Mark Murphy's tenure as president of
the Green Bay Packers. And we know he is retiring
later this summer. So my last question to you for
this show is, aside from bringing the Draft to Green Bay,
(23:21):
what do you feel will be the biggest part of
Mark Murphy's legacy when he officially retires.
Speaker 3 (23:31):
Lambeaufield, Yeah, title Town, everything that has been developed in
just the amazing advancement of this organization, in this franchise,
I mean, the Green Bay Packers. We obviously always will
give respect to Bob Harlan, his foresight, the need that
(23:52):
for the renovations and the Lambefield Atrium, but for Mark
to keep his foot on the gas throat all that.
I mean, you listen to this and you see it
now at the nfl PA rankings every year, the amount
of investment this team makes in its football facilities you're
seeing on the east side of the stadium the development
of Title Town and a place that my son will
(24:12):
go and ice skate at and play in the playground at.
In Mike Frankly, the position that I'm in right now,
the Green Bay Packers, the way that this organization has grown.
From a staffing perspective. You can go talk to some
of the people who have been here since the nineteen
nineties and you can look at the old media guides
and there's thirty five employees and there were over three hundred,
(24:35):
and that just shows you the vision and being able
to keep up in this race with billion dollar teams
in some of the richest people in the world that
own some of these ball clubs, that are the majority
owners of these ball clubs. I just you want to
win a Super Bowl, and the Packers did that as
(24:55):
well underneath Mark Murphy's tenure. You want to go to
the playoffs. They did that thirteen times more than any
other team over the last seventeen years during Mark Murphy's tenure.
But at the end of the day, it's taking this
little light on the hill and making sure that that
light doesn't stop shining. And Murphy definitely did that, so
we got another couple months here to enjoy Mark before
(25:19):
the transition to ED policy, who I think is going
to do a fantastic job. But I tell people this
all the time, and I wrote about it an inbox
again today. If I did anything here, if you did
anything here, I just hope it's that we really told
people who Mark was, who he is, and just the
type of leader, CEO president. It didn't matter if it
(25:41):
was the Green Bay Pawkers or a local tire shop.
I mean, the guy knows people, and he knows employees,
and he knows how to lead, and he knows how
to get people behind him. And I think the draft
coming here is a good example that as well.
Speaker 2 (25:54):
Yeah, what lambeau Field became in two thousand and three,
it was very much a part of one of the
biggest pieces of Bob Harlan's legacy, among several big pieces
to his legacy during his tenure as president. What lambeau
Field and the entire Lambeufield campus, if you will looks
(26:15):
like now is is definitely part of Mark Murphy's legacy.
The other the other thing I will say that I
think will be very interesting to see because the Packers
the Packers are competing for championships. We know that they
are close, and you know been to with the current regime.
(26:35):
Brian Gudokuntz, Matt Lafleur been to a couple of NSC
championship games, almost got there, didn't quite work out. But
if this if this regime as currently constructed with Brian
Gudokunz running the football operations and Matt Lafuur being the
head coach, if they are able to win a Super Bowl,
you can't forget that. Mark Murphy hired both of those guys.
(26:58):
So part of I think there is potentially potentially a
big piece of his legacy that maybe hasn't been written yet.
Speaker 1 (27:05):
So I throw that out there.
Speaker 3 (27:06):
Excellent point, Mike. And the other thing I will mention,
I've said this numerous times. You know how this league works.
You and I see it. There's franchises every two years.
It seems like they're changing a GM, a head coach,
people that are in a position of power. Mark Murphy,
seventeen plus years, he hired one general manager, one head coach,
and the Packers drafted one quarterback in the first round.
(27:27):
That's something special.
Speaker 1 (27:28):
Yeah, yeah, for sure.
Speaker 2 (27:30):
With that we will call it a rap on this
edition of Packers Unscripted. Be sure to continue following all
of our coverage of the team on packers dot com
and will be back next week with a couple of
more shows, and in.
Speaker 1 (27:42):
The middle of next week the schedule gets released.
Speaker 2 (27:45):
On our second show next week, we'll be able to
be talking about the twenty twenty five schedules.
Speaker 1 (27:50):
So for Wes, I am Mike, thank you for tuning in. Everybody,
We will see you next time.
Hi, everybody.
Speaker 2 (00:11):
Welcome to another edition of Packers unscripted from Packers dot Com.
I am like Spofford, joined by the one and only
Wes Hodkowitz.
Speaker 1 (00:19):
We're coming to you.
Speaker 2 (00:19):
Hear from our studios at lambeau Field. Wes our comeback episode.
I know you don't want to call it that, but
I'm going to our comeback episode. On Tuesday, we reviewed
the off season to this point for the Green Bay Packers,
looking at various key positions and how things have changed
(00:39):
shape for the twenty twenty five Packers. I want to
continue to review the twenty twenty five off season to
this point, but in a little bit different way in
that I'm going to throw a question at you, okay,
and then I'll let you answer it, and then I
will also answer it. And as usual, I didn't prep
you with the questions in advance. You're perhaps going to
(01:01):
steal one of my answers and I will just have
to react.
Speaker 1 (01:04):
And deal with it if that happens.
Speaker 3 (01:07):
Nice.
Speaker 2 (01:07):
But first question, of all of the off season moves
the Packers have made, and here where I'm talking about
signings in free agency, re signing your own players, what's
happened in the draft, what's happened with the coaching staff,
like any and everything that encompasses the Packers off season.
What would you point to right now as the most
(01:29):
significant Brandon McManus.
Speaker 3 (01:32):
Okay, and let's just be honest, Mike. I mean, the
green Bay Packers went through a roller coaster through the
first relatively month and a half, and really the whole
off season I think they went and cycled through was
at seven different kickers before ultimately McManus ended up coming
and sort of saving the season for green Bay. The
fact that the Packers ranked in the middle of the
pack and field goal accuracy after how things started. In
(01:55):
no disrespect to Brandon Narvisen, but you had a rookie
kicker coming in that gets claimed at the end of
kay and has to come in and he's in a
new spot, and I felt like McManus was the one
that started the turnaround for green Bay special teams. It
felt like, yes, it was the field goal unit and
all of that, but it also just felt like everything
sort of synked up a little bit more in You
(02:16):
and I on Tuesday's show, we were discussing these different
positions and potential battles. Michael, when was the last time
the Packers on this day, you know, in May of
twenty twenty five, third week of the offseason program, have
had one kicker, one punter in one long snapper in
addition to obviously Alex Hale the international player exemption. But
(02:39):
right now, it's about his stables. It's been in years
as far as being able to maintain and keep Brandon
McManus in the fold and for him to have the
season that he had with only two miss field goals
the entire way. Certainly one of them was obviously in
the game against Philadelphia, but this was such a massive
(02:59):
sing for Green Bay in the middle of the season,
and to be able to extend him and keep him around,
I think is going to have a huge impact on
those we fence and the special teams units going forward.
Speaker 2 (03:09):
Yeah, and I like that. I like that choice. I
think for me as far as as of right now
looking at things right now, the one that I feel
is the most significant was the free agent signing of
Nate Hobbs at cornerback. And I say that for a
couple reasons. One, obviously, the situation with Jay or Alexander
(03:30):
is still not resolved. We're not quite sure where that's
gonna go. At the time that the Packers made the
signing of Hobbs, there there wasn't any certainty as to
as to how things were gonna unfold with Alexander, So
so it's significant from that standpoint. I think it's also significant,
as we talked about on our last show, how the
(03:51):
Packers are investing in another defensive back who they feel
they can line up in different places. You know, it's
another key Sewn Nixon, who whom they feel can line
up and defend on the boundary but also line up
and and play in the slot, and giving Jeff Haffley
and this defense that many you know, yet another movable
(04:13):
part among many movable parts in his secondary And then
the other reason I would say it was significant. And
this is a little bit sort of revisionist history in
a weird sort of way if you follow if you
follow along here, But I think but it became significant
because the I would have I would have almost bet
(04:37):
my house that the Packers were going to draft a
cornerback within the first four rounds of this draft, not
saying it was had to be the first round pick,
but I thought just within the first one hundred and
fifty picks of this draft, the Packers were going to
take a cornerback and the board just didn't fall that
way for them. I think if the board falls a
(04:57):
certain way, they probably do, but the board didn't fall
that way, and they end up actually not getting a
cornerback until the seventh round with Micah Robinson and then
as I mentioned, also bringing in a highly touted, undrafted
player in Jonathan Baldwin who many people thought would be drafted.
But the reason that it makes the Hobbs signing that
(05:18):
much more significant, not only because of just what you
did for the cornerback room and bringing in a veteran,
but with the board not falling the way you were
hoping or maybe thinking it would fall during the draft,
they didn't have to just go out and reach for
a cornerback and oh, we got to make sure we
get one of these guys before they're gone. The signing
of Hobbs, like even with the cornerback board didn't fall
(05:41):
quite right in the draft, but Brian Gudacunz could still
just sit back and say, hey, it's okay, We're all right,
you know we you know, the Alexander thing is still
up in the air. But we brought in Hobbs, we
have Nixon, There's Carrington Valentine, you know there. So I
think the I think the Hobbs signing was was really
significant for a lot of reasons. There question number two,
(06:02):
which off season move of everything that has happened to
this point, are you most curious to see.
Speaker 1 (06:10):
What results from it?
Speaker 2 (06:11):
Oo?
Speaker 1 (06:14):
Wow, I know that's a tough one.
Speaker 3 (06:16):
Mike's I'm putting off for bringing fast On.
Speaker 1 (06:19):
I'm putting you, I'm putting you on the spot here.
Speaker 3 (06:21):
Okay, So this is accounting the draft class as well. Sure, yeah,
it's the use I could answer this two ways. Okay,
but can I start with the draft class? Pudes, because
we were asking me the question, which which move entices
me the most? Which will move I'm most excited to
see it's saveon Williams because it's just because when you
have a guy that is utilized the way he was
(06:43):
utilized at TCU, and I think you and I would
both agree just based on the depth of the received position,
he's not going to have that many opportunities, you would think.
I mean, it was like they were building the whole
offense around him. Uh. At Texas Christian so what aspects
of him his game. Does Matt Lafleur, Adam Stenovich, Jason
(07:04):
Rabel do they look to extract and utilize right out
of the gate, because I think he can help them,
But I couldn't tell you, based on his workload and
the multitude of ways that he was utilized in college,
exactly what he's going to do in Green Bay. Okay,
Be that as it may. The Isaiah Simmons one is
really interesting to me with the Packers signing him, and
(07:25):
it was the last move they've made in the free
agency window here. But this guy is five years removed
from being the eighth overall pick in the NFL Draft
and he's never missed a game because of injury. Incredibly durable,
played a lot of football for the Arizona Cardinals the
first two and a half years, and it's just sort
(07:47):
of been trying to find his spot, you know, ever
since that Cliff Kingsbury era ended in Arizona. So is
he going to be on special teams? You know? Is
he going to be a guy that you could potentially
sprinkle into the defense, will even up earning a role
on the defense, We don't know. But when you're talking
about low risk, high reward signings. I think Isaiah Simmons
(08:08):
might take the cake because the more I was listening
to Matt Lafleur discussed, you know, the conversations with him,
they brought him in for a visit, they signed him
two weeks later after the draft, when they didn't really
add any other inside linebackers, natural inside linebackers, right, So
it almost in a way sort of felt like the
Devandre Campbell's signing to me in twenty twenty one, where
(08:30):
it's this guy that's sort of sitting out there trying
to find the right opportunity and ultimately he settles on
green back.
Speaker 1 (08:35):
Yeah, that's an interesting way to look at it.
Speaker 2 (08:37):
And with regard to bringing Simmons in for a visit
and then you know it, at the signing ends up happening.
A couple weeks later, we heard from Matt Lafleur like
they were doing some more checking. They checked with Xavier
McKinney because he played with them, you know, with the Giants,
and you know, they were wanting to get more opinions
and more thoughts about him and whatnot. The two thumbs
(08:58):
up came from Xavier McKay and that was a factor
in that move as well. The most curious one for
me that I am I am interested to see what
results from it is the change at defensive line coach. Yeah, sure,
DeMarcus Covington being brought in to take over running the
Packers defensive line with with Jason Rebovich being being let go.
(09:24):
The reason this one stands out to me so much
is because for all of the discussion outside the building
about what are the Packers going to do about their
pass rush?
Speaker 1 (09:33):
You know, et cetera, et cetera. And we heard.
Speaker 2 (09:36):
From we heard from Brian Gutakunst at the combine in Indianapolis,
at the owners meetings down in Florida. He has a
lot of confidence in the players in that defensive front room,
the guys who are going to make up the pass rush. Now,
he said, Hey, guys need to progress, they need to
get better. They need to be more consistent, you know,
more reliable. You know, the as we talked about on
(09:58):
the last show. The progression is from guys like Lucas
van Ness the a little little more consistency and reliability
is expected from Rashaun Garry, the you know, the veteran guy,
and also from the interior guys Kenny Clark, DeVante Wyatt,
the guys who have been who have been there, done
that to this point, you know, need to need to
step up their games as well. But hearing all of
(10:19):
that throughout the off season about how Brian Gudokum's felt
about the Packers pass rush tells me they really feel
that Covington can make a difference with this unit, can
take the guys that the Packers have and get more
out of them and uh and try to push that
group forward in the way that in the way that's
been envisioned. So that's the one that has that has
(10:41):
my curiosity. And I think it's also and this was
pointed out a month or so ago by an insider
inbox reader, and I apologize for forgetting exactly who it was,
but it's also a very shrewd move on Matt Lafleur's
part to bring in a guy like Covington. He had
just risen over the last handful of years. He'd risen
(11:01):
from the bottom of the totem poll on Bill Belichick's
coaching staff in New England all the way up to
defensive coordinator for Jared Mayo in the first year after
Belichick is gone from the Patriots, and now New England
decided to clean house with the Mayo coaching staff, and
so this guy becomes available. But he's considered still a
rising star in the coaching ranks. He has a year
(11:24):
of experience as a defensive coordinator in the NFL, and
we all know that all it took was one year
for Jeff Hafley to be here, and he was getting
some overtures for possible head coach vacancy. So in that
larger picture of things, I think a very shrewd and
also intriguing and curious higher by Mattliffe.
Speaker 3 (11:45):
And while you are not wrong with the Jeff Hafley comparison,
I almost look at it, especially once I read more
about Comington's you know, credentials, He almost kind of reminds
me more of the Anthony Campinelli type higher where Campinelli
was rising through the ranks, was well respected as a
linebackers coach with Miami. He came here for one year
and now he's gonna be the defensive corner of the
(12:06):
Jacksonville Jaguars. Like That's the sort of trajectory Covington was on,
and obviously, unfortunately New England kind of had to restart
this year, and certainly I think there was that I
don't want to call an infatuation, but definitely that flirtation
with Mike Rabel going back there and you know, taking
that over and sort of continuing that even though he
didn't coach for him, that Bill Belichickian sort of mantra
(12:29):
that they've developed there. So Coventin's available, and I think
it's a great example of a guy coming in here
now where this is a big undertaking for the Packers,
and he also I think took on the run game
coordinator role as well, where you're trying to maintain what
you did against the run last year, as you've pointed out,
while improving upon the natural pass rush and getting more
(12:52):
out of those edge rushers. It's a big undertaking, but
he has a ton of weapons and a ton of
depth to be able to try doing.
Speaker 2 (12:59):
That question number three. I really like the comparison to
the Campanelli higher though. By the way, that's a thank you, Tom,
That's that's nicely done. Appreciate appreciate the addition to my
answer that question question number three. For you, what off
season move the Packers have made do you expect to
(13:19):
pay the most immediate dividends, the most the greatest immediate impact.
Speaker 1 (13:27):
Which one would you go?
Speaker 3 (13:28):
You know what you touched on it. I'm gonna pull
it back all right, and I'm gonna say Nate Hobbs signing, okay,
because here here's the thing you have to edit my
cider inbox column. Congratulations on that. And one of the
points I raised this week is the walls are breaking
down here between what teams consider to be perimeter cornerbacks
(13:49):
and slot nickel cornerbacks. There was a time I'll never
forget this in twenty fourteen where the Packers had this gridlock,
this logjam of cornerbacks. They couldn't get Devon House on
the field because he didn't play inside, but they had
a lot of options outside with Tremont Williams and I
believe at that time Sam Shields and what was his
(14:11):
Pro Bowl season after he resigned, So they had guys
they felt like could play, but they just couldn't get
him on the field. Now you're seeing this Nate Hobbs,
Keyshawn Nixon type of cornerback that depending on where you
need them, what the scheme is, what the game is,
what the matchups are and also what the injury situation
is where you can move these guys around. And I
(14:32):
think you're seeing that type of versatility and the value
in that versatility league wide. And as you and I
discussed with Hobbs and his signing, there's a lot of
projection there, but there's some proven ability to play both
inside and outside based on his time with the Raiders. Now,
all that being said, another analogy I threw out there,
another argument that I made in inbox was we always
(14:55):
look at these starting fives of offensive lines in the versatility,
I think you almost need maintain the same type of
approach with a secondary because in a lot of cases,
much like an offensive line, those guys are going to
be out there. Four of them certainly are likely going
to be out there at all times. Yeah, maybe five,
depending on what the matchup is. If you have that
many players that you're counting on to be on the field,
(15:17):
you have to have not only depth, but versatility to
replace that depth if injuries occur. I think Hobbs is
gonna be a big part of that for Jeff Hafley's defense.
And also the exciting thing is too last year it
was Halfley trying to figure out a lot of these
pieces that Green Bay already had in fitting them into
his defense. Now he's having the opportunity to look at
a guy like Nate Abbs and say, you know what,
(15:37):
I can do something with that guy.
Speaker 1 (15:39):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (15:39):
Yeah, I think that's a good point. My answer on
the most immediate dividends, I was actually going to go
with Brandon McManus on this because of just the idea
that for the first time in three years, the Packers
are heading heading into an off season, a training camp,
the start of a season with no questions about kickers
right since moving on from from Mason Crosby.
Speaker 1 (16:02):
So first time in three years they're in that.
Speaker 3 (16:04):
A better way of saying what I tried to say
in the first time, it's just it was it was
just it's not like Alex Haleyeah with him exactly.
Speaker 2 (16:11):
There are no questions about that position for the first
time in three years. I will go a slightly different direction,
but also rehash a little bit of what we talked
about on our next show. As far as immediate dividends,
I think it could be the selection of Matthew Golden
at the top of the draft in the first round,
because we saw and We've talked about so often, how
(16:32):
different team, how different lee defenses have to defend the Packers.
When Christian Watson is on the field, with the speed
that he brings and that and that fear that he
strikes of the big play, it just it dictates defensive alignments,
It dictates the way teams scheme up against you. And
when Watson has not been available, that's been that's made
(16:56):
things a lot harder on the Packers offense. So until
you get Christian Watson back sometime later in the fall,
second half of the season, whatever it's going to be,
even though he's golden, is a completely different player in
terms of body type and a different type of receiver.
You have replaced Christian Watson speed. Now you are putting
a guy on the field with that speed element that
(17:18):
defenses are going to have to account for now. So
that's why that would be my other answer to paying
the most immediate dividends, last one for you before I'll
take care of some sponsor business. Most surprising offensive off
season excuse me move for you?
Speaker 3 (17:37):
Well, I mean it's probably the Elton Jenkins him going
to center. I didn't anticipate that. I thought there was
a chance that Josh Meyers wouldn't be back. I remember,
I could tell you exactly what it seems like whenever
we always much as you and I joke about, like
when you go on PTO, something big usually happens. It
does seem like whenever the Packers make an unrestricted free
(17:58):
agency signing, like I'm always doing something. I'm out in
the area I'll never forget. I got done running over
at Meadowbrook Park in Howard, Wisconsin. I got back to
my car, I'm winded out of shape, sweating, and I'm
just leaning against my car and I pull out my
phone and says the Packers have signed Aaron Banks. And
immediately I'm like, okay, the guard from San Francisco. And
(18:20):
I'm thinking to myself, like, did he play center at
Notre Dame, Like as I just remembered him being the guy, yeah,
that replaced Quintin Nelson and then got drafted and basically
started a bulk of four years for San Francisco. And
it's like, no, he didn't. So once you step back
from it, it's a very logical move. I would take
Elton Jenkins at center over any of these guys that
(18:43):
were available on the market. I don't know a lot
about the draft class. But in terms of the unrestricted
free agents, we saw Atlanta, I should say from Atlanta.
The Bears sign was at Chris Dolman. I'm trying remember
what his name was, the new center that they got there.
I take Elton over that guy, like, I mean, it's
just it's just the way that this thing goes, so uh,
(19:05):
it surprised me. But that being said, uh, once you
step back a little bit, you start to understand the
method of the madness, so to speak.
Speaker 2 (19:13):
Yeah, and that was but that was my pick as well.
In terms of the signing of Aaron Banks, I thought
that was the most surprising. Dalmon Dalmon, Yes, no, that's okay.
It didn't come to me right away either. And I
was gonna say Drew and then I couldn't think of
the last name. So but no, I think the Bank
signing was surprising because as we headed into free agency,
(19:35):
all the talk goes, Okay, are the Packers gonna do
something at receiver? Are they gonna do something you know
with uh with the pass rush? Where are they gonna
spend the money? And then and then you know, boom,
the first the first one we find out about Oh,
it's an offensive lineman and they're gonna take their two
time Pro Bowl guard and kick them over to center.
So I agree with you on that one being surprising.
The other one I'll throw out there because it it
(19:59):
kind of goes along with with what you were talking
about with Isaiah Simmons. But it's a it's bringing in
Mkole Hardman at at wide receiver because he wasn't a
guy at the top of free agent market or anything
like that at at wide receiver. And when it didn't
surprise me that Gudakuns didn't go there at receiver, I
did feel that he was going to go into this
(20:20):
draft and I said it many times an insider inbox,
that he was going to try to look for the
next Christian Watson in this draft or the or you know,
the next potential guy like that. And he did draft
the fastest, the fastest receiver of all the guys at
the combine. But once uh, you know, once free agency
had sort of been going for a while I and
(20:40):
the draft is still hanging out there, I didn't I
just didn't expect him to bring in any receiver to
a room that is already you know, kind of crowded
when you've got when you've got a you know, wide
receiver five six types like Malie Keith and bow Melton
who had played and done some things and contributed in
games and and still trying to establish themselves in the league.
That you know, bringing in a veteran like Hardman, you know,
(21:03):
kind of later in free agency into that room. Now
they're gonna look at him as a returner. He's got
some he's got some other abilities as far as different
ways to get him the ball kind of thing like
Lake Sabean Williams. But just that, you know, that move
kind of surprised me because at that at that point
in free agency I just didn't necessarily think the Packers
are going to be looking at wide receivers there.
Speaker 3 (21:23):
The one thing that Brian has done, Godkuns has done
an exceptional job of is he definitely has kicked the
tires on players, more veteran players, more than Ted did.
Speaker 1 (21:34):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (21:34):
Ted would do it occasionally, and it would usually end
up being like during training camp when like a Cedric
Benson would come in because there's just a deluge of
injuries at a position like for example, in that case,
running back. Brian since the day he got hired. I mean,
I think a Byron Bell and some of these other
guys I mean certainly Mercedes Lewis coming in and ended
up playing five years for him. These guys that aren't
(21:56):
the top of the wire, guys that are affected the
pensatory process. Brian has been willing to take a look,
and sometimes it doesn't work out, but then sometimes you
do find somebody. And that's one thing I think the
Packers have definitely benefited from over the last five six years.
Speaker 2 (22:12):
Yeah, all right, Well, one other topic I want to
get to, but I will take care of sponsor business.
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(22:32):
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Speaker 1 (22:38):
All right, last topic.
Speaker 2 (22:39):
To hit on today because and I wanted to talk
about this before the draft. The draft being hosted by
Green Bay gets too far into the rearview mirror. I
think we can all agree that bringing the Draft to
Green Bay, and as successful as the entire production was,
the crowds, the spectacle, everything with the stage, and then
(23:00):
the selections of Golden and Currel in the fourth round
and just all that, the whole thing kind of becomes
the crown jewel of Mark Murphy's tenure as president of
the Green Bay Packers. And we know he is retiring
later this summer. So my last question to you for
this show is, aside from bringing the Draft to Green Bay,
(23:21):
what do you feel will be the biggest part of
Mark Murphy's legacy when he officially retires.
Speaker 3 (23:31):
Lambeaufield, Yeah, title Town, everything that has been developed in
just the amazing advancement of this organization, in this franchise,
I mean, the Green Bay Packers. We obviously always will
give respect to Bob Harlan, his foresight, the need that
(23:52):
for the renovations and the Lambefield Atrium, but for Mark
to keep his foot on the gas throat all that.
I mean, you listen to this and you see it
now at the nfl PA rankings every year, the amount
of investment this team makes in its football facilities you're
seeing on the east side of the stadium the development
of Title Town and a place that my son will
(24:12):
go and ice skate at and play in the playground at.
In Mike Frankly, the position that I'm in right now,
the Green Bay Packers, the way that this organization has grown.
From a staffing perspective. You can go talk to some
of the people who have been here since the nineteen
nineties and you can look at the old media guides
and there's thirty five employees and there were over three hundred,
(24:35):
and that just shows you the vision and being able
to keep up in this race with billion dollar teams
in some of the richest people in the world that
own some of these ball clubs, that are the majority
owners of these ball clubs. I just you want to
win a Super Bowl, and the Packers did that as
(24:55):
well underneath Mark Murphy's tenure. You want to go to
the playoffs. They did that thirteen times more than any
other team over the last seventeen years during Mark Murphy's tenure.
But at the end of the day, it's taking this
little light on the hill and making sure that that
light doesn't stop shining. And Murphy definitely did that, so
we got another couple months here to enjoy Mark before
(25:19):
the transition to ED policy, who I think is going
to do a fantastic job. But I tell people this
all the time, and I wrote about it an inbox
again today. If I did anything here, if you did
anything here, I just hope it's that we really told
people who Mark was, who he is, and just the
type of leader, CEO president. It didn't matter if it
(25:41):
was the Green Bay Pawkers or a local tire shop.
I mean, the guy knows people, and he knows employees,
and he knows how to lead, and he knows how
to get people behind him. And I think the draft
coming here is a good example that as well.
Speaker 2 (25:54):
Yeah, what lambeau Field became in two thousand and three,
it was very much a part of one of the
biggest pieces of Bob Harlan's legacy, among several big pieces
to his legacy during his tenure as president. What lambeau
Field and the entire Lambeufield campus, if you will looks
(26:15):
like now is is definitely part of Mark Murphy's legacy.
The other the other thing I will say that I
think will be very interesting to see because the Packers
the Packers are competing for championships. We know that they
are close, and you know been to with the current regime.
(26:35):
Brian Gudokuntz, Matt Lafleur been to a couple of NSC
championship games, almost got there, didn't quite work out. But
if this if this regime as currently constructed with Brian
Gudokunz running the football operations and Matt Lafuur being the
head coach, if they are able to win a Super Bowl,
you can't forget that. Mark Murphy hired both of those guys.
(26:58):
So part of I think there is potentially potentially a
big piece of his legacy that maybe hasn't been written yet.
Speaker 1 (27:05):
So I throw that out there.
Speaker 3 (27:06):
Excellent point, Mike. And the other thing I will mention,
I've said this numerous times. You know how this league works.
You and I see it. There's franchises every two years.
It seems like they're changing a GM, a head coach,
people that are in a position of power. Mark Murphy,
seventeen plus years, he hired one general manager, one head coach,
and the Packers drafted one quarterback in the first round.
(27:27):
That's something special.
Speaker 1 (27:28):
Yeah, yeah, for sure.
Speaker 2 (27:30):
With that we will call it a rap on this
edition of Packers Unscripted. Be sure to continue following all
of our coverage of the team on packers dot com
and will be back next week with a couple of
more shows, and in.
Speaker 1 (27:42):
The middle of next week the schedule gets released.
Speaker 2 (27:45):
On our second show next week, we'll be able to
be talking about the twenty twenty five schedules.
Speaker 1 (27:50):
So for Wes, I am Mike, thank you for tuning in. Everybody,
We will see you next time.
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