May 22, 2025 • 25 mins
Mike and Wes discuss comments made to the media by the defensive assistant coaches, including DeMarcus Covington (:20), Sean Duggan (3:45) and Derrick Ansley (9:32), and they preview the upcoming OTAs as Phase 3 of the offseason program arrives (13:08).
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:09):
Hi, everybody. Welcome to another edition of Packers Unscripted from
Packers dot Com. I am Mike Spofford, joined by my
partner in crime, Wes Hodkowitz. We're coming to you here
from our studios at Lambeufield. Wes. We finished our last
show talking about some of the things we heard from
the offensive assistant coaches when they met with the media,
the only time that they will do so during the
(00:30):
off season program before we get to training camp. So
let's shift gears a little bit and talk about what
we heard on the defensive side, and obviously a coach
that a lot of people are very interested in, defensive
line coach DeMarcus coving the new hire on the defensive staff.
He comes from the New England Patriots. He had worked
his way up from really the bottom position on Bill
(00:53):
Belichick's defensive staff all the way up to then becoming
the defensive coordinator the year after Belichick is gone when
Jared Mayo took over as the head coach there in
New England. And I thought it was interesting hearing because
I hadn't really thought of this in when we heard
about Covington getting hired. The connection there between members of
(01:14):
the Boston College coaching staff and the New England coaching staff.
And of course I'm talking about Jeff Halfley when he
was the head coach at Boston College, where those two
coaching staffs would invite the other to attend practices and
just kind of observe and and maybe even sit in
on meetings and and pick the brains of both sets
(01:36):
of coaching staffs. And not that there was a super
close personal relationship or anything developed between Covington and Halflee,
but there was definitely a respectful professional relationship there about
how both of them went about their business. And then
now there's kind of been this match with Covington coming
to work on Hafley staff.
Speaker 2 (01:56):
Yeah, and it was very interesting listening not only to Halfley,
but also Matt Laflor's discuss this a little bit too.
I mean, just how much Covington impressed this coaching staff
with his background. I mean, this is a guy that
was a former wide receiver that starts coaching the defensive
side of the ball when he's with Bill Belichick in
New England, and next thing you know, he's the defensive
coordinator for the New England Patriots last season. And again,
(02:18):
a young man that is still relatively spelt, I would
say coaching a position of three hundred and ten, three
hundred and twenty pound behemoths. Yeah, a very unique thing.
But to your original point, I think it's the relationships
you take for granted. We see it all the time.
There'll be members of the Wisconsin coaching staff. Shoot, great
guard came up last year for a practice that when
(02:39):
you have those internal relationships where it's Green Bay Packers
Wisconsin Badgers football, it only makes sense to you know
occasionally you know, kind of put your heads together on
some things. And it sounds like that's something Belichick was
really big on when he was out in New England
and challenging his coaches to learn and to see different
ways to do things. And the other thing I thought
(03:00):
was really interesting from Covington was him mentioning that he
doesn't think he's ever coached a first round pick before,
and now he has four of them in the Green
Bay Packers on the defensive front. So yeah, a very
unique addition. And as Lafleur also talked about, they interviewed
a lot of really high caliber, talented defensive line coaches
and Covington end up being the one that emerged in
(03:23):
this whole you know, series of interviews, and obviously we're
getting a small taste for why.
Speaker 1 (03:29):
Yeah, very interesting for a coach to go from being
a wide receiver as a player to then making his
way to the defensive side as a coach. Not unheard
of by any stretch.
Speaker 2 (03:39):
The least surprising thing out of a Belichick coaching stat
They do that stuff all the time.
Speaker 1 (03:43):
Yeah, those kinds of things can happen. Another one I
thought that was interesting to hear from was a new
linebackers coach, Sean Duggan, and I realized, not just because
they share a first name, but Sean Duggan is kind
of like the sewn many of the defensive side, and
that he was hired a year ago sort of in
(04:04):
a more general like assistant type of role, but with
the idea that he would probably be the next in
line for that certain position group when the time came,
and to no one's surprise, Anthony Campanelli got snatched up
for a coordinator job here in the offseason after just
one year in Green Bay. So Sean Duggan, after one
(04:27):
year on Jeff Hafley's staff, now has been promoted to
a position coach, and so he's already got the familiarity
with a lot of the players and what's going on.
He obviously has a longer relationship with Isaiah mcduffin, going
back to Boston College where he coached McDuffie there too.
(04:47):
But a couple of things I heard from Dougan that
were interesting. One is that the word that he used
to describe by Isaiah Simmons when he was asked about
him is hungry. So that's something to keep an eye
on because I've felt that, you know, these two free
agent signings the Packers made, one on each side of
the ball, Nicole Hardman at wide receiver and returner special teams,
(05:10):
and then Isaiah Simmons at linebacker, you know, sort of
hybrid player on defense also maybe on special teams. No
guarantee either of those players is going to make the roster.
But when you hear about when you hear about a
veteran with the time that Isaiah Simmons has put in
and here he is in the off season program kind
of going through some of these these basic days of
(05:31):
the offseason and his position, coach says, I see a
hungry player. Yep, that's something that catches my attention. And
then the other was he talked about quay Walker and
how he felt towards the end of last season that
quay Walker was was really just starting to feel fully
comfortable with Jeff Hafley's scheme and what he was being
(05:54):
asked to do. And obviously Walker had some injuries, and
when you're missing time and you're trying to learn a
new system and you're not not always in the lineup
weekend and week out, that can certainly have an impact.
But I think there are a lot of a lot
of arrows pointing up potentially for kway Walker as he
now moves into year two in this defensive scheme.
Speaker 2 (06:15):
Yeah, I'm going to take this in a series kind
of reacting to the three things you brought up. The
first and foremost with Dougan as this as the in
sidelinebackers coach now thirty two years old. I mean, this
is kind of the era we're entering now where you're
going to see some of these guys that we're playing
college football in the twenty tens now becoming position coaches,
becoming coordinators. And his connection with Halfley goes back six
(06:36):
seven years. Yeah, this is a guy that played at
BC was working his way up the coaching tree, then
goes and takes a grad assistant job with Ohio State,
and ever since then he's kind of been attached at
the hip with Halfley throughout this whole thing. And I
think a lot of us felt like as soon as
Anthony Campanelli moved on and got that opportunity in Jacksonville,
this was the natural progression. And honestly, I think this
(06:59):
is the perfect way to build coaching staffs too, where
you have these you know, assistants to the assistant so
to speak, like Dougan was, and now he's sitting in
the captain's chair and has a very talented room that
he's going to be working with. Isaiah Simmons. I've loved
this signing from day one, and there was multiple reasons
for that. One his intangibles. Man, you just don't get
very many NFL players, you don't get very many NFL
(07:20):
defenders with his makeup, and yeah, roll the dice on it,
see what happens. Also, by the way, could potentially be
a special teams contributor as well. He was the last
two years for the Giants. But what I really liked
about the Simmons signing is it was a very mature
decision from both sides. Simmons came in and did a
visit with Packers two weeks before the NFL Draft, then
(07:40):
the NFL Draft happens, Packers don't draft anybody at that position,
and then Simmons comes in and they sign them. I
felt like that made sense for both sides, and he'll
obviously add a lot to that competition. Kway Walker fifth
year option not exercise. That was a big point of
you know, big topic earlier this month. But I think
we're going to see the best version of him this year.
(08:01):
I think you're going to see aim motivated Quay not
that he hasn't already been, but I think you're going
to see a young man that wants to prove to everybody.
I am the Mike linebacker of this defense. I can
be the face of this defense going forward. We've seen
flashes of it. He has every intangible you want. And
one of the big things I've been saying, Michael, the
moment that edgern Cooper proved that he could be an
every down player for the Packers, the idea of him
(08:23):
and Quay Walker on the field together it's kind of
like the the Tucker Craft Luke Muskrave and we want
to see it it is.
Speaker 1 (08:29):
It's yeah, we have, but we haven't seen it too much.
And that was I was looking back at last year
just going over, okay, when Walker was playing, when Cooper
was playing, because both guys were dealing with injuries and
they they had their share of time on the field together.
But there was actually only one game all season last
year that Kuay Walker and Edrin Cooper were both starters
(08:53):
on the defense, and it was the playoff game in Philadelphia.
Crazy doesn't happen until the postseason. So that is definitely
something and I look at when you look at Walker
a first round pick and Cooper a second round pick,
and the athletic makeup of those two guys and there
and what they could do potentially playing side by side.
(09:14):
You hope it's one of those things where Cooper can
help make Walker a better player and vice versa. Walker's
presence can help make Cooper a better player, and that
could that could really elevate just that, you know, kind
of what you call the heart of the defense, the
core of the defense, with those guys for the most
part lining up in the middle of the field. One
other comment I want to reflect on from the defensive
(09:38):
assistant coaches when we heard from them last week. Derek Ainsley,
the defensive passing game coordinator, he didn't, you know, wax
eloquently in any way about this, but he did mention
that he's been impressed so far what he's seen in
the offseason program in year two from Kaylin King, seventh
(10:00):
round draft out of Penn State from a year ago.
And this will be this will just be something that's
interesting to watch because we saw a seventh round draft
pick at corner a couple of years ago, and Carrington
Valentine came into his own pretty quickly. The Packers took
Kaylan King in the seventh round last year. They took
Michael Robinson in the seventh round this year. If you
(10:21):
have if if you get the right guys like that
late in the draft and they get the right opportunity
and and everything with the coaching and all that meshes together,
you really have the opportunity to develop players that can
help you. And I think I mean Kayle and kayl
and King couldn't have asked for a better situation. Quite frankly,
(10:43):
with the Packers. Yes, they brought in Nate Hobbs as
a as a big free agent in the offseason, but
the Packers didn't draft a corner back until the seventh round.
So Kaylan King is going to have an opportunity to
prove that that maybe there's a there's a place for him,
there's a role for him in this defense, and we'll
just have to wait and see.
Speaker 2 (11:00):
And there was three vacated spots, Eric Stokes, Corey Balentine
and then also Robert Rochelle Hill moving on during free agency,
so a ton of opportunity. I look at King a
lot like the next Brenton Cox junior, where I actually
thought there was a lot to like in his defensive
performance last year, especially once he moved to the slot.
He looked natural there. But the problem was is that
(11:22):
he had a bunch of veteran cornerbacks there that were
stalwarts on special teams, and he was trying to make
up that gap because ultimately, you have to be able
to do it on teams to get your opportunities on defense,
as Cox had learned last year and a half until
finally getting that summons mid season last year, where he'd
been a healthy scratch, then he ends up with four
sacks on the season. I see a lot of that
(11:42):
same potential on King. Again. Remember this guy was an
all Big ten type player early on. It's like a
Colin Oliver situation, right, Like he hit it really hard
early on, and then his junior happens and there were
some question marks there. But the guy's ability to play
the cornerback position I don't think is ever really bad.
Question is just trying to find that opportunity. Ainsley's a
(12:03):
guy much like you know you look at you know,
Jerry Gray before him, obviously Joe Witt junior. These cornerbacks.
The Packers have gotten a lot out of these late
round picks over the last decade, and I think King
senses that. I know the motivation was there for him
watching Carrington Valentine, seeing going from a seventh round pick
to a guy that has now become sort of a
lynchpin there with this defense, very very curious to learn
(12:27):
more about him, and certainly for Ainsley to go out
of his way. I mean he could have answered that
in a number of different ways, but to mention how
impressed he's been by him, I think probably says a
lot to the offseason he's put in up until this point.
Speaker 1 (12:38):
Yeah, and we'll just have to see. Well. Next week,
the offseason program moves on to OTA's I want to
get your thoughts on some things there, but I'll take
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All right, next week, First, a little housekeeping item. We
will not have any Packers unscripted shows next week, unfortunately,
because with the holiday on Monday and just some other
(13:22):
scheduling things with people involved with the show and what
notot going on, We're going to take a week off.
Speaker 2 (13:28):
You can tell them I'm going golfing, Mic, It's.
Speaker 1 (13:30):
Okay, yeah, well, okay, you just told them. So we
will use the rest of this show to sort of
preview OTAs and then when we come back after the
week off, which would be the first week of June
where OTAs will still be going on, but then we
will start to recap some of our observations and what
(13:52):
we've seen. Now that being said, we are only going
to get access to one OTA practice per week, and
I feel like I say this every year on the show.
There will be a lot of coverage of that one
OTA that the media including us, have access to. But
you have to remember that the observations are only one
(14:15):
day during an entire week of OTAs, and so you
just have to kind of have the right perspective, take
it with a grain of salt. It doesn't mean that
you know, these are decisions that have been made and
this is how everything is going to line up for
training camp. But we will observe what we can in
the time that that we have the access. So my
(14:38):
question for you is what is sort of the first
thing that comes to your mind in terms of a
storyline for OTAs that you're going to be keeping an
eye on when you get a chance to be on
the sideline.
Speaker 2 (14:48):
Okay, so this is going to be kind of boring
because this is what everybody does during the off season,
and it's a cliche, it's a narrative of being bigger, stronger, better, faster,
all that stuff. I can't wait to see Edrin Cooper.
I know we just talked about the inside linebackers, but
the way that Jeff Hafley kind of propped him up
talking about the changes he's seen in him, I'm curious
to just see him on the field because at the
(15:08):
end of the day, You're right, there's only so much
you can surmise from one ota practice non padded Yeah,
it'll be in shells, like you're not going to have
like these huge collisions, but just seeing that and then also,
let's be honest, a lot of times these non contact,
non padded practices, you look to see how Matthew Golden
matches up against whomever he's lined up against, you know,
(15:29):
in eleven on eleven or seven on seven drills, and
seeing how the pace of play and how these guys look.
I think we are always a victim of the moment
and drawn conclusions way too fast, and not just fans,
that's media too. I've done it plenty of times, but
it is always cool when you finally see that first
practice where all the rookies, all the undrafted free agents,
(15:52):
it all starts right there. That's where the story begins,
now meshing in and blending in with all this returning
talent that Green Bay has.
Speaker 1 (15:58):
Yeah, I'm the one of the things that I'm definitely
going to be keeping an eye on. And again, it's
only going to be one day, so we're not going
to necessarily know what's happening on the other days. But
I want to keep an eye on what's going on
with the offensive line for a couple of reasons. One,
if Elton Jenkins is still not here as he's trying
to work out some things with his contract and whatnot,
(16:20):
then okay, who's going to be playing center? Who's lined
up at center with the number one offense? Which will
give us the indication of who's the number two center? Yeah,
for the Packers when we get to training camp again,
this work at this time is all voluntary. I have
to say that Elton Jenkins is not getting fined or
anything for not being part of the off season program
(16:40):
right now. But also on the offensive line, I want
to see, Okay, where is Jordan Morgan taking his reps?
Is he getting most of his snaps at left tackle
competing with Rashid Walker, or is he getting most of
his snaps at right guard, competing with Sean Ryan. And
then along those same lines, where are the Packers going
to start Anthony Elton. I shouldn't say start as in
(17:02):
the starting lineup, but where does he beginin his NFL journey,
the second round pick, Anthony Belton? Is he going to
be playing tackle? Is he going to be playing guard?
Which side of the line is he going to be on?
You know what? What unit will he be with? So
those will, those will definitely be things to watch. And again,
because it's only one day, like the day next week
(17:23):
that we're out there watching practice, we might see Jordan
Morgan taking all of his reps at left tackle, and
that's gonna end up being a big story in the media.
What we don't know is if the very next day,
when we're not there, if he's taking all of his
reps at right guard and they're and they're moving him around,
and we're not necessarily going to get all of that
information just in in the one day that that we
(17:44):
get to observe. But those will, those will be what
I'm watching for on the offensive side. On the defensive side,
I'll be curious about a couple of things we just
talked about Walker and Cooper, you know, side by side.
So what's going on with the with the third line
back or in the supposed base defense even though the
base defense isn't really necessarily a primary position or you know,
(18:07):
a primary package. But with as Isaiah McDuffie back and
Tyron Hopper a third round pick from a year ago
now entering year two, So what does the competition look
like there? And then with the defensive backfield, with Nate
Hobbs coming in as a free agent, a guy that
can line up in the slot or on the boundary,
(18:28):
where does where does he line up first? And what
are some of the different alignments that that Jeff Hafley
and Ryan Downer and Derek Ainsley, all the defensive backs coaches,
how do they how do they want to do things?
If you know, are there times that Hobbs is going
to be in the slot and so then Nixon and Valley,
Nixon and Valentine are on the outside or is it
(18:49):
Nixon and Hobbs on the outside and then Bullard is
in the slot? Is Bullard playing deep safety?
Speaker 2 (18:55):
Uh?
Speaker 1 (18:56):
You know, maybe rotating with Evan Williams alongside Xavier McKinney,
all kinds of possibilities, and it'll just be interesting to
see how much kind of mixing and matching is going
on in the limited time that we get to see
the guys out there.
Speaker 2 (19:08):
Very interested to watch because obviously, you know, we'll see
what happens with Jaieira, you know, assuming he's not out
there Karen to Valentine is a perimeter corner, like that's
where he's hung his hat. But then you also have
Keishaw Nixon, who's talked about being CB one and showing
that he can play out there as well. Hobbs played
inside a lot in Vegas, so maybe you have him
in that Star Nickel role. All things the Packers coaching
(19:29):
staff have to figure out. I think his intelligence, his experience,
he'll be able to flip however Green Bay wants him to.
But ultimately the end of the day, the first thing
that popped off in my head when we were talking
about the offensive line, for example, with Jordan Morgan. We
were watching Morgan work everywhere last year during training camp.
It was tackle, it was guard, and ultimately when he
started the season, it was that six man role that
(19:51):
he was going to be bouncing around through there could
be situations. Again, one thing that Green Bay's kind of
popularized is hey, we'll work you as the number one
right guard and then when we go to the twos,
you're going to be the left tackle. Like those are
options as well, depending on when guys rotate into the
lineup at the end of a drill and then maybe
going into the next number two period. Be that as
(20:12):
it may. When I've said this comment, I've made this
comment about this being the deepest roster in terms of
positions in my time covering the team. That's what I'm
talking about, because there was a time, Mike where you
just kind of knew that this is what the alignment
was going to look like. And I don't want to
throw anybody under the bus and name names and say,
but it was like, Okay, well, you know the player
(20:32):
acts is going to be here, and that's just the
way it's going to be. I remember my first few
years in the Beat, in the off season program, that's
a lot of times how it was, well, now, there's
a lot of different scenarios that could happen next week
and that mini camp in two weeks after that that
wouldn't surprise me at all. Depending on how the Packers
want to allocate these resources. That is probably the part
(20:53):
of it that is the most interesting to watch. And
then also it is going to be finding out exactly
who shines. There is only so much you can learn.
But Mike and I have had this conversation numerous times.
It was that training camp, or I should say that
OTAs in twenty twenty two where Jordan Love had one
whale of a day. Yeah, And that was the time.
Speaker 1 (21:15):
Around front of everybody.
Speaker 2 (21:16):
It was in front everybody because Aaron Rodgers wasn't here, Yeah,
and I was like, Holy Kyle, like this kid looks different.
And then obviously Rogers ended up coming back. But that
was the first moment where I was watching. I mean,
he was just dicing up the defense. In eleven on
eleven's just cutting up guys with the receivers, Juwan Winfrey
(21:36):
had one of the best practices I think I've ever
seen from a Packers' receiver, with a lot of the
other whiteouts not there. So that is where I feel
like seeing it doesn't absolutely have to be Love. It
could be anybody seeing guys who really step out and impress.
It's one practice and there's many that we're missing, but
it's still noticeable.
Speaker 1 (21:57):
Yeah, And I like what you said too about about
the depth of this team at various positions and what
I want to follow up with on that is and
maybe we'll be able to figure out when the decisions
are made at the end of training camp and how
this fifty three man roster takes shape. And we are
a long way away from that, and there will certainly
be some other factors injuries and whatnot that will that
(22:20):
will contribute to sorting out the fifty three. But I
feel like with the way this current ninety man roster
has been built by Brian Gutekunstan the personnel staff, that
when it comes time to deciding on the fifty three,
that this year the Packers may be releasing more players
(22:40):
who have been on fifty threes, whether in Green Bay
or elsewhere. More guys who who have played in the
NFL and been on fifty threes are going to be released.
Because of the depth on this ninety man roster and
the way this one has been built. There are guys,
there are guys who are on Green Bay's fifty three
last year who are not going to make the team
(23:00):
this year. And I mentioned there are a couple of
guys who have played for other teams who have been
brought in as free agents who are not locks to
make this roster and there will be some decisions to
be made there. I think the Packers are going to
be potentially be releasing experienced players, and I'm not talking
about the long time vets necessarily, but guys that are
(23:21):
going to probably end up on the practice squad and
still trying to fight their way back because that spot
on the fifty three might not be there for them
this year. And that's a good position to be, and
you want to be releasing good football players. You don't
want the final decisions at cut down time to be easy.
If they're easy, then the personnel department kind of feels
(23:44):
like they didn't really do their job. They didn't make
it tough. They didn't make it tough on themselves and
tough on the coaches to decide who should be on
the team. We may be headed for something like that
come early September when we get to the end of
training camp, but we'll just have to see.
Speaker 2 (23:58):
It has never been a better space to be in
those positions either, because yes, occasionally you're going to lose
some guys. Last year, the Packers lost Grant to Bow's
Christian Welch, who's now back, ended up leaving and Gring
to Denver. But then you have the sixteen man practice
squad and the flexibility to bring guys up from that,
and the flexibility to potentially develop you know, some guys,
some rookies, some draft picks that maybe you won't be
ready day one. You're rashid Walker's of the world that
(24:20):
kind of hold down one of those inactive spots. So
they're not on the practice squad, but they're not really
playing in the games either.
Speaker 1 (24:26):
They don't want to expose them to waivers. Well, but
you're probably going to lose them yet get claimed and
then off he goes.
Speaker 2 (24:32):
There's so many different ways you can work this thing now,
and I think for Green Bay being able to be
in that position when you have let me put it
this way. You could go young and you could draft
all these players, you could acquire all this talent, and
you can miss on a bunch of them, and you're
still sitting there in the same spot of like, Okay, well,
how do we build a forty eight? How do we
build a fifty three? Green Bay being as productive as
(24:53):
they've been in the twenty two to twenty three, twenty
four drafts. Is what has set up this position that
they're in right now and what does that do? Yes,
it keeps you competitive on the field, that it keeps
you chasing a championship this year, but it also making
sure the guys that do get second contracts are going
to be really, really good football players. So a very
interesting year awaits scree bit Packers, but certainly on field
(25:14):
in terms of the analysis, maybe even you want to
call it the overthinking on the media side of things.
That all starts next week with organized team activities.
Speaker 1 (25:22):
Yeah, it absolutely does, and with that we will call
it a wrap on this edition of Packers Unscripted. Be
sure to follow all of our coverage of the team,
and even though we won't be here on Packers Unscripted
next week, we will have coverage of OTAs with that
day that is open to the media. We will have
it all for you on Packers dot com for wes
Im Mike. Thank you for tuning in everybody, and we
(25:42):
will see you next time.
Hi, everybody. Welcome to another edition of Packers Unscripted from
Packers dot Com. I am Mike Spofford, joined by my
partner in crime, Wes Hodkowitz. We're coming to you here
from our studios at Lambeufield. Wes. We finished our last
show talking about some of the things we heard from
the offensive assistant coaches when they met with the media,
the only time that they will do so during the
(00:30):
off season program before we get to training camp. So
let's shift gears a little bit and talk about what
we heard on the defensive side, and obviously a coach
that a lot of people are very interested in, defensive
line coach DeMarcus coving the new hire on the defensive staff.
He comes from the New England Patriots. He had worked
his way up from really the bottom position on Bill
(00:53):
Belichick's defensive staff all the way up to then becoming
the defensive coordinator the year after Belichick is gone when
Jared Mayo took over as the head coach there in
New England. And I thought it was interesting hearing because
I hadn't really thought of this in when we heard
about Covington getting hired. The connection there between members of
(01:14):
the Boston College coaching staff and the New England coaching staff.
And of course I'm talking about Jeff Halfley when he
was the head coach at Boston College, where those two
coaching staffs would invite the other to attend practices and
just kind of observe and and maybe even sit in
on meetings and and pick the brains of both sets
(01:36):
of coaching staffs. And not that there was a super
close personal relationship or anything developed between Covington and Halflee,
but there was definitely a respectful professional relationship there about
how both of them went about their business. And then
now there's kind of been this match with Covington coming
to work on Hafley staff.
Speaker 2 (01:56):
Yeah, and it was very interesting listening not only to Halfley,
but also Matt Laflor's discuss this a little bit too.
I mean, just how much Covington impressed this coaching staff
with his background. I mean, this is a guy that
was a former wide receiver that starts coaching the defensive
side of the ball when he's with Bill Belichick in
New England, and next thing you know, he's the defensive
coordinator for the New England Patriots last season. And again,
(02:18):
a young man that is still relatively spelt, I would
say coaching a position of three hundred and ten, three
hundred and twenty pound behemoths. Yeah, a very unique thing.
But to your original point, I think it's the relationships
you take for granted. We see it all the time.
There'll be members of the Wisconsin coaching staff. Shoot, great
guard came up last year for a practice that when
(02:39):
you have those internal relationships where it's Green Bay Packers
Wisconsin Badgers football, it only makes sense to you know
occasionally you know, kind of put your heads together on
some things. And it sounds like that's something Belichick was
really big on when he was out in New England
and challenging his coaches to learn and to see different
ways to do things. And the other thing I thought
(03:00):
was really interesting from Covington was him mentioning that he
doesn't think he's ever coached a first round pick before,
and now he has four of them in the Green
Bay Packers on the defensive front. So yeah, a very
unique addition. And as Lafleur also talked about, they interviewed
a lot of really high caliber, talented defensive line coaches
and Covington end up being the one that emerged in
(03:23):
this whole you know, series of interviews, and obviously we're
getting a small taste for why.
Speaker 1 (03:29):
Yeah, very interesting for a coach to go from being
a wide receiver as a player to then making his
way to the defensive side as a coach. Not unheard
of by any stretch.
Speaker 2 (03:39):
The least surprising thing out of a Belichick coaching stat
They do that stuff all the time.
Speaker 1 (03:43):
Yeah, those kinds of things can happen. Another one I
thought that was interesting to hear from was a new
linebackers coach, Sean Duggan, and I realized, not just because
they share a first name, but Sean Duggan is kind
of like the sewn many of the defensive side, and
that he was hired a year ago sort of in
(04:04):
a more general like assistant type of role, but with
the idea that he would probably be the next in
line for that certain position group when the time came,
and to no one's surprise, Anthony Campanelli got snatched up
for a coordinator job here in the offseason after just
one year in Green Bay. So Sean Duggan, after one
(04:27):
year on Jeff Hafley's staff, now has been promoted to
a position coach, and so he's already got the familiarity
with a lot of the players and what's going on.
He obviously has a longer relationship with Isaiah mcduffin, going
back to Boston College where he coached McDuffie there too.
(04:47):
But a couple of things I heard from Dougan that
were interesting. One is that the word that he used
to describe by Isaiah Simmons when he was asked about
him is hungry. So that's something to keep an eye
on because I've felt that, you know, these two free
agent signings the Packers made, one on each side of
the ball, Nicole Hardman at wide receiver and returner special teams,
(05:10):
and then Isaiah Simmons at linebacker, you know, sort of
hybrid player on defense also maybe on special teams. No
guarantee either of those players is going to make the roster.
But when you hear about when you hear about a
veteran with the time that Isaiah Simmons has put in
and here he is in the off season program kind
of going through some of these these basic days of
(05:31):
the offseason and his position, coach says, I see a
hungry player. Yep, that's something that catches my attention. And
then the other was he talked about quay Walker and
how he felt towards the end of last season that
quay Walker was was really just starting to feel fully
comfortable with Jeff Hafley's scheme and what he was being
(05:54):
asked to do. And obviously Walker had some injuries, and
when you're missing time and you're trying to learn a
new system and you're not not always in the lineup
weekend and week out, that can certainly have an impact.
But I think there are a lot of a lot
of arrows pointing up potentially for kway Walker as he
now moves into year two in this defensive scheme.
Speaker 2 (06:15):
Yeah, I'm going to take this in a series kind
of reacting to the three things you brought up. The
first and foremost with Dougan as this as the in
sidelinebackers coach now thirty two years old. I mean, this
is kind of the era we're entering now where you're
going to see some of these guys that we're playing
college football in the twenty tens now becoming position coaches,
becoming coordinators. And his connection with Halfley goes back six
(06:36):
seven years. Yeah, this is a guy that played at
BC was working his way up the coaching tree, then
goes and takes a grad assistant job with Ohio State,
and ever since then he's kind of been attached at
the hip with Halfley throughout this whole thing. And I
think a lot of us felt like as soon as
Anthony Campanelli moved on and got that opportunity in Jacksonville,
this was the natural progression. And honestly, I think this
(06:59):
is the perfect way to build coaching staffs too, where
you have these you know, assistants to the assistant so
to speak, like Dougan was, and now he's sitting in
the captain's chair and has a very talented room that
he's going to be working with. Isaiah Simmons. I've loved
this signing from day one, and there was multiple reasons
for that. One his intangibles. Man, you just don't get
very many NFL players, you don't get very many NFL
(07:20):
defenders with his makeup, and yeah, roll the dice on it,
see what happens. Also, by the way, could potentially be
a special teams contributor as well. He was the last
two years for the Giants. But what I really liked
about the Simmons signing is it was a very mature
decision from both sides. Simmons came in and did a
visit with Packers two weeks before the NFL Draft, then
(07:40):
the NFL Draft happens, Packers don't draft anybody at that position,
and then Simmons comes in and they sign them. I
felt like that made sense for both sides, and he'll
obviously add a lot to that competition. Kway Walker fifth
year option not exercise. That was a big point of
you know, big topic earlier this month. But I think
we're going to see the best version of him this year.
(08:01):
I think you're going to see aim motivated Quay not
that he hasn't already been, but I think you're going
to see a young man that wants to prove to everybody.
I am the Mike linebacker of this defense. I can
be the face of this defense going forward. We've seen
flashes of it. He has every intangible you want. And
one of the big things I've been saying, Michael, the
moment that edgern Cooper proved that he could be an
every down player for the Packers, the idea of him
(08:23):
and Quay Walker on the field together it's kind of
like the the Tucker Craft Luke Muskrave and we want
to see it it is.
Speaker 1 (08:29):
It's yeah, we have, but we haven't seen it too much.
And that was I was looking back at last year
just going over, okay, when Walker was playing, when Cooper
was playing, because both guys were dealing with injuries and
they they had their share of time on the field together.
But there was actually only one game all season last
year that Kuay Walker and Edrin Cooper were both starters
(08:53):
on the defense, and it was the playoff game in Philadelphia.
Crazy doesn't happen until the postseason. So that is definitely
something and I look at when you look at Walker
a first round pick and Cooper a second round pick,
and the athletic makeup of those two guys and there
and what they could do potentially playing side by side.
(09:14):
You hope it's one of those things where Cooper can
help make Walker a better player and vice versa. Walker's
presence can help make Cooper a better player, and that
could that could really elevate just that, you know, kind
of what you call the heart of the defense, the
core of the defense, with those guys for the most
part lining up in the middle of the field. One
other comment I want to reflect on from the defensive
(09:38):
assistant coaches when we heard from them last week. Derek Ainsley,
the defensive passing game coordinator, he didn't, you know, wax
eloquently in any way about this, but he did mention
that he's been impressed so far what he's seen in
the offseason program in year two from Kaylin King, seventh
(10:00):
round draft out of Penn State from a year ago.
And this will be this will just be something that's
interesting to watch because we saw a seventh round draft
pick at corner a couple of years ago, and Carrington
Valentine came into his own pretty quickly. The Packers took
Kaylan King in the seventh round last year. They took
Michael Robinson in the seventh round this year. If you
(10:21):
have if if you get the right guys like that
late in the draft and they get the right opportunity
and and everything with the coaching and all that meshes together,
you really have the opportunity to develop players that can
help you. And I think I mean Kayle and kayl
and King couldn't have asked for a better situation. Quite frankly,
(10:43):
with the Packers. Yes, they brought in Nate Hobbs as
a as a big free agent in the offseason, but
the Packers didn't draft a corner back until the seventh round.
So Kaylan King is going to have an opportunity to
prove that that maybe there's a there's a place for him,
there's a role for him in this defense, and we'll
just have to wait and see.
Speaker 2 (11:00):
And there was three vacated spots, Eric Stokes, Corey Balentine
and then also Robert Rochelle Hill moving on during free agency,
so a ton of opportunity. I look at King a
lot like the next Brenton Cox junior, where I actually
thought there was a lot to like in his defensive
performance last year, especially once he moved to the slot.
He looked natural there. But the problem was is that
(11:22):
he had a bunch of veteran cornerbacks there that were
stalwarts on special teams, and he was trying to make
up that gap because ultimately, you have to be able
to do it on teams to get your opportunities on defense,
as Cox had learned last year and a half until
finally getting that summons mid season last year, where he'd
been a healthy scratch, then he ends up with four
sacks on the season. I see a lot of that
(11:42):
same potential on King. Again. Remember this guy was an
all Big ten type player early on. It's like a
Colin Oliver situation, right, Like he hit it really hard
early on, and then his junior happens and there were
some question marks there. But the guy's ability to play
the cornerback position I don't think is ever really bad.
Question is just trying to find that opportunity. Ainsley's a
(12:03):
guy much like you know you look at you know,
Jerry Gray before him, obviously Joe Witt junior. These cornerbacks.
The Packers have gotten a lot out of these late
round picks over the last decade, and I think King
senses that. I know the motivation was there for him
watching Carrington Valentine, seeing going from a seventh round pick
to a guy that has now become sort of a
lynchpin there with this defense, very very curious to learn
(12:27):
more about him, and certainly for Ainsley to go out
of his way. I mean he could have answered that
in a number of different ways, but to mention how
impressed he's been by him, I think probably says a
lot to the offseason he's put in up until this point.
Speaker 1 (12:38):
Yeah, and we'll just have to see. Well. Next week,
the offseason program moves on to OTA's I want to
get your thoughts on some things there, but I'll take
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(13:00):
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All right, next week, First, a little housekeeping item. We
will not have any Packers unscripted shows next week, unfortunately,
because with the holiday on Monday and just some other
(13:22):
scheduling things with people involved with the show and what
notot going on, We're going to take a week off.
Speaker 2 (13:28):
You can tell them I'm going golfing, Mic, It's.
Speaker 1 (13:30):
Okay, yeah, well, okay, you just told them. So we
will use the rest of this show to sort of
preview OTAs and then when we come back after the
week off, which would be the first week of June
where OTAs will still be going on, but then we
will start to recap some of our observations and what
(13:52):
we've seen. Now that being said, we are only going
to get access to one OTA practice per week, and
I feel like I say this every year on the show.
There will be a lot of coverage of that one
OTA that the media including us, have access to. But
you have to remember that the observations are only one
(14:15):
day during an entire week of OTAs, and so you
just have to kind of have the right perspective, take
it with a grain of salt. It doesn't mean that
you know, these are decisions that have been made and
this is how everything is going to line up for
training camp. But we will observe what we can in
the time that that we have the access. So my
(14:38):
question for you is what is sort of the first
thing that comes to your mind in terms of a
storyline for OTAs that you're going to be keeping an
eye on when you get a chance to be on
the sideline.
Speaker 2 (14:48):
Okay, so this is going to be kind of boring
because this is what everybody does during the off season,
and it's a cliche, it's a narrative of being bigger, stronger, better, faster,
all that stuff. I can't wait to see Edrin Cooper.
I know we just talked about the inside linebackers, but
the way that Jeff Hafley kind of propped him up
talking about the changes he's seen in him, I'm curious
to just see him on the field because at the
(15:08):
end of the day, You're right, there's only so much
you can surmise from one ota practice non padded Yeah,
it'll be in shells, like you're not going to have
like these huge collisions, but just seeing that and then also,
let's be honest, a lot of times these non contact,
non padded practices, you look to see how Matthew Golden
matches up against whomever he's lined up against, you know,
(15:29):
in eleven on eleven or seven on seven drills, and
seeing how the pace of play and how these guys look.
I think we are always a victim of the moment
and drawn conclusions way too fast, and not just fans,
that's media too. I've done it plenty of times, but
it is always cool when you finally see that first
practice where all the rookies, all the undrafted free agents,
(15:52):
it all starts right there. That's where the story begins,
now meshing in and blending in with all this returning
talent that Green Bay has.
Speaker 1 (15:58):
Yeah, I'm the one of the things that I'm definitely
going to be keeping an eye on. And again, it's
only going to be one day, so we're not going
to necessarily know what's happening on the other days. But
I want to keep an eye on what's going on
with the offensive line for a couple of reasons. One,
if Elton Jenkins is still not here as he's trying
to work out some things with his contract and whatnot,
(16:20):
then okay, who's going to be playing center? Who's lined
up at center with the number one offense? Which will
give us the indication of who's the number two center? Yeah,
for the Packers when we get to training camp again,
this work at this time is all voluntary. I have
to say that Elton Jenkins is not getting fined or
anything for not being part of the off season program
(16:40):
right now. But also on the offensive line, I want
to see, Okay, where is Jordan Morgan taking his reps?
Is he getting most of his snaps at left tackle
competing with Rashid Walker, or is he getting most of
his snaps at right guard, competing with Sean Ryan. And
then along those same lines, where are the Packers going
to start Anthony Elton. I shouldn't say start as in
(17:02):
the starting lineup, but where does he beginin his NFL journey,
the second round pick, Anthony Belton? Is he going to
be playing tackle? Is he going to be playing guard?
Which side of the line is he going to be on?
You know what? What unit will he be with? So
those will, those will definitely be things to watch. And again,
because it's only one day, like the day next week
(17:23):
that we're out there watching practice, we might see Jordan
Morgan taking all of his reps at left tackle, and
that's gonna end up being a big story in the media.
What we don't know is if the very next day,
when we're not there, if he's taking all of his
reps at right guard and they're and they're moving him around,
and we're not necessarily going to get all of that
information just in in the one day that that we
(17:44):
get to observe. But those will, those will be what
I'm watching for on the offensive side. On the defensive side,
I'll be curious about a couple of things we just
talked about Walker and Cooper, you know, side by side.
So what's going on with the with the third line
back or in the supposed base defense even though the
base defense isn't really necessarily a primary position or you know,
(18:07):
a primary package. But with as Isaiah McDuffie back and
Tyron Hopper a third round pick from a year ago
now entering year two, So what does the competition look
like there? And then with the defensive backfield, with Nate
Hobbs coming in as a free agent, a guy that
can line up in the slot or on the boundary,
(18:28):
where does where does he line up first? And what
are some of the different alignments that that Jeff Hafley
and Ryan Downer and Derek Ainsley, all the defensive backs coaches,
how do they how do they want to do things?
If you know, are there times that Hobbs is going
to be in the slot and so then Nixon and Valley,
Nixon and Valentine are on the outside or is it
(18:49):
Nixon and Hobbs on the outside and then Bullard is
in the slot? Is Bullard playing deep safety?
Speaker 2 (18:55):
Uh?
Speaker 1 (18:56):
You know, maybe rotating with Evan Williams alongside Xavier McKinney,
all kinds of possibilities, and it'll just be interesting to
see how much kind of mixing and matching is going
on in the limited time that we get to see
the guys out there.
Speaker 2 (19:08):
Very interested to watch because obviously, you know, we'll see
what happens with Jaieira, you know, assuming he's not out
there Karen to Valentine is a perimeter corner, like that's
where he's hung his hat. But then you also have
Keishaw Nixon, who's talked about being CB one and showing
that he can play out there as well. Hobbs played
inside a lot in Vegas, so maybe you have him
in that Star Nickel role. All things the Packers coaching
(19:29):
staff have to figure out. I think his intelligence, his experience,
he'll be able to flip however Green Bay wants him to.
But ultimately the end of the day, the first thing
that popped off in my head when we were talking
about the offensive line, for example, with Jordan Morgan. We
were watching Morgan work everywhere last year during training camp.
It was tackle, it was guard, and ultimately when he
started the season, it was that six man role that
(19:51):
he was going to be bouncing around through there could
be situations. Again, one thing that Green Bay's kind of
popularized is hey, we'll work you as the number one
right guard and then when we go to the twos,
you're going to be the left tackle. Like those are
options as well, depending on when guys rotate into the
lineup at the end of a drill and then maybe
going into the next number two period. Be that as
(20:12):
it may. When I've said this comment, I've made this
comment about this being the deepest roster in terms of
positions in my time covering the team. That's what I'm
talking about, because there was a time, Mike where you
just kind of knew that this is what the alignment
was going to look like. And I don't want to
throw anybody under the bus and name names and say,
but it was like, Okay, well, you know the player
(20:32):
acts is going to be here, and that's just the
way it's going to be. I remember my first few
years in the Beat, in the off season program, that's
a lot of times how it was, well, now, there's
a lot of different scenarios that could happen next week
and that mini camp in two weeks after that that
wouldn't surprise me at all. Depending on how the Packers
want to allocate these resources. That is probably the part
(20:53):
of it that is the most interesting to watch. And
then also it is going to be finding out exactly
who shines. There is only so much you can learn.
But Mike and I have had this conversation numerous times.
It was that training camp, or I should say that
OTAs in twenty twenty two where Jordan Love had one
whale of a day. Yeah, And that was the time.
Speaker 1 (21:15):
Around front of everybody.
Speaker 2 (21:16):
It was in front everybody because Aaron Rodgers wasn't here, Yeah,
and I was like, Holy Kyle, like this kid looks different.
And then obviously Rogers ended up coming back. But that
was the first moment where I was watching. I mean,
he was just dicing up the defense. In eleven on
eleven's just cutting up guys with the receivers, Juwan Winfrey
(21:36):
had one of the best practices I think I've ever
seen from a Packers' receiver, with a lot of the
other whiteouts not there. So that is where I feel
like seeing it doesn't absolutely have to be Love. It
could be anybody seeing guys who really step out and impress.
It's one practice and there's many that we're missing, but
it's still noticeable.
Speaker 1 (21:57):
Yeah, And I like what you said too about about
the depth of this team at various positions and what
I want to follow up with on that is and
maybe we'll be able to figure out when the decisions
are made at the end of training camp and how
this fifty three man roster takes shape. And we are
a long way away from that, and there will certainly
be some other factors injuries and whatnot that will that
(22:20):
will contribute to sorting out the fifty three. But I
feel like with the way this current ninety man roster
has been built by Brian Gutekunstan the personnel staff, that
when it comes time to deciding on the fifty three,
that this year the Packers may be releasing more players
(22:40):
who have been on fifty threes, whether in Green Bay
or elsewhere. More guys who who have played in the
NFL and been on fifty threes are going to be released.
Because of the depth on this ninety man roster and
the way this one has been built. There are guys,
there are guys who are on Green Bay's fifty three
last year who are not going to make the team
(23:00):
this year. And I mentioned there are a couple of
guys who have played for other teams who have been
brought in as free agents who are not locks to
make this roster and there will be some decisions to
be made there. I think the Packers are going to
be potentially be releasing experienced players, and I'm not talking
about the long time vets necessarily, but guys that are
(23:21):
going to probably end up on the practice squad and
still trying to fight their way back because that spot
on the fifty three might not be there for them
this year. And that's a good position to be, and
you want to be releasing good football players. You don't
want the final decisions at cut down time to be easy.
If they're easy, then the personnel department kind of feels
(23:44):
like they didn't really do their job. They didn't make
it tough. They didn't make it tough on themselves and
tough on the coaches to decide who should be on
the team. We may be headed for something like that
come early September when we get to the end of
training camp, but we'll just have to see.
Speaker 2 (23:58):
It has never been a better space to be in
those positions either, because yes, occasionally you're going to lose
some guys. Last year, the Packers lost Grant to Bow's
Christian Welch, who's now back, ended up leaving and Gring
to Denver. But then you have the sixteen man practice
squad and the flexibility to bring guys up from that,
and the flexibility to potentially develop you know, some guys,
some rookies, some draft picks that maybe you won't be
ready day one. You're rashid Walker's of the world that
(24:20):
kind of hold down one of those inactive spots. So
they're not on the practice squad, but they're not really
playing in the games either.
Speaker 1 (24:26):
They don't want to expose them to waivers. Well, but
you're probably going to lose them yet get claimed and
then off he goes.
Speaker 2 (24:32):
There's so many different ways you can work this thing now,
and I think for Green Bay being able to be
in that position when you have let me put it
this way. You could go young and you could draft
all these players, you could acquire all this talent, and
you can miss on a bunch of them, and you're
still sitting there in the same spot of like, Okay, well,
how do we build a forty eight? How do we
build a fifty three? Green Bay being as productive as
(24:53):
they've been in the twenty two to twenty three, twenty
four drafts. Is what has set up this position that
they're in right now and what does that do? Yes,
it keeps you competitive on the field, that it keeps
you chasing a championship this year, but it also making
sure the guys that do get second contracts are going
to be really, really good football players. So a very
interesting year awaits scree bit Packers, but certainly on field
(25:14):
in terms of the analysis, maybe even you want to
call it the overthinking on the media side of things.
That all starts next week with organized team activities.
Speaker 1 (25:22):
Yeah, it absolutely does, and with that we will call
it a wrap on this edition of Packers Unscripted. Be
sure to follow all of our coverage of the team,
and even though we won't be here on Packers Unscripted
next week, we will have coverage of OTAs with that
day that is open to the media. We will have
it all for you on Packers dot com for wes
Im Mike. Thank you for tuning in everybody, and we
(25:42):
will see you next time.
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