June 5, 2025 • 23 mins
Mike and Wes discuss a variety of news and nuggets from Week 2 of OTAs, including the off-field work of the defensive line (:45), Keisean Nixon’s thoughts on kickoff returns (10:25), Romeo Doubs’ return to health (14:28) and Zach Tom’s presence at right tackle (17:00).
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:09):
Hi, everybody. Welcome to another edition of Packers Unscripted from
Packers dot Com. I am Mike Spoffer, joined as always
by my partner in crime, Wes Hodkowitz. We're coming to
you hear from our studios at lambeau Field to continue
us our discussion of Packers OTAs we did our show
earlier this week, kind of looking back at last week.
Since then, we have now had access to another practice,
(00:31):
another media availability, some different news and nuggets to talk about.
But I think first and foremost, having heard from multiple
defensive linemen who spoke to the media on Tuesday after practice,
it sounds like not only do these guys on the
(00:51):
defensive line get together to catch some NBA playoffs and
maybe watch or consume some pizza and wings, but it
sounds like they also bring their iPads. There's been some
study sessions at Kenny Clark's house as part of kind
of a little off season bonding and improvement.
Speaker 2 (01:12):
It's so cool when you hear these type of stories too,
because it's like, it seems like yesterday it was little
Kenny Clark with big personality, Mike Daniels leading that room,
and Julius Peppers and Clay Matthews are the outside linebackers.
And now here we are year ten. For Kenny, he's
the one now pulling guys together. He's the one now
trying to build that camaraderie among the defensive lines. So
(01:32):
basically how the story goes is, you know him and
Rashan Gary both have talked about this in the past.
They've done a lot of stuff during the season. Thursday
night football guys get together, they spend time. Kenny usually
opens up his house to you know, the younger guys
on the roster come over, hangout, talk whatever. Well, this offseason,
if you know how voluntary off season program works is
whether here Monday through Thursday, Tuesday through Friday, depending on
(01:56):
how the week orientates itself, guys are free to go
when that four day week is over, Yeah, then get
on a plane. These gift come back on money and
do whatever they want a lot of guys are choosing
to stick around this year. And as Kenny said, and
actually was Rashaun that mentioned, he's been here. This is
a seventh season now, he's not done anything like this
before where guys have been going over to Kenny and yeah,
(02:18):
they still do the wings, they still do the pizza.
But now it's been going through the individual periods of practice,
watching their film, as Kenny said, trying to show the guys,
the younger guys on the roster, how to set up locks,
what the formations look like this defense, understanding your role
in it. I think that's an important piece right now
for them because the defensive front is at an interesting
(02:38):
little crossroads here. What they did well last year, you know,
seventh ranked run defense, best performance against the run in
the last fifteen years. Well, now you're losing TJ. Slayton,
who was a big, you know, run stuffer in the
middle of that, and you're going to try to, you know,
maintain what you did. At the same time, one of
the big points of contention that guys have been discussing
(02:59):
is wanting to improve the PA rush, the four man pressures,
not have to rely so much on exotic looks, you know,
blitz packages, simulated pressures, but to actually be able to
get home with four And what Rashan was saying is
he feels like that right now has them set up
as with off to a fast start and believing that
that's me something that's going to propel them for now
into the summer.
Speaker 1 (03:20):
A little interesting nugget that I took from that is
not just the you know kind of the eleven on
eleven and whatnot. And sometimes even they're watching film of
other pass rushers around the league and you know, sharing
their thoughts as they examine, you know, other successful players,
but they're also watching the individual drills that they're doing
(03:42):
in practice. And I think what I took from that
is that that speaks to me to some of the
new methods and techniques they're being taught by DeMarcus Covington,
the new defensive line coach, that they want to watch
those individual drills and how those things are coming along
and get a chance to see, you know, how their
teammates are executing those techniques and how different guys are
(04:04):
coming along. Because you and I have been there at practice,
we see, you know, the players line up for the
certain drills and everybody kind of takes their turn. But
when you're just standing there kind of waiting in line
or catching your breath for the next rep or whatever,
you're not necessarily watching the details of how your teammate
is doing something. But if you watch the individual individual
drills on film, you can you can look at every
(04:26):
single guy and a leader leaders of the group like
Kenny Clark and Rashaan Gary, they can take a look
at how the younger guys are doing and and and
maybe point some things out to help them out before
the next practice, so that so that they maybe don't
necessarily have to hear it from the coaches or have
the coaches in their ear about stuff all the time.
So it's a it's an interesting it's an interesting process
(04:51):
that that the group is going through in the off season.
As you said, there's a lot of focus on improving
the pass rush, but they stop the run pretty darn
well last year. It's it's not and there has been
a change in position coaches, but it's not like you're
just throwing everything out and starting over. There's a lot
to work with here with what the Packers defensive line
(05:11):
accomplished in the offseason. But the bottom line, as Kenny
Clark said when he answered one of the questions about
the pass rush, is it wasn't good enough. It wasn't
good enough to win a championship. And these guys know
that they can do better, that they can produce more,
and that's what they're.
Speaker 2 (05:26):
After for sure. Mike and also understanding where I know
you're probably talking about this in a second, but understand
where these guys are at too. I mean, I'm happy
that Kenny finally sort of talked about what he was
dealing with last season. Yeah, like he'd been We knew
there was a tow injury and there was a foot
injury there that he'd been dealing with since Brazil, and
he wasn't going to blame any turf. He wasn't going
to go down that route when he was talking to us.
(05:46):
But that's September, what was it, fourth, Yeah, and then the.
Speaker 1 (05:52):
Packers are ideay of September.
Speaker 2 (05:53):
Yeah, the Packers are playing into mid to late January.
I mean, that is a long time for that thing
not to get a lot of time to heal. And
he mentioned he had surgery right after the season. On it,
Lucas Vaness was dealing with some stuff. And it's not
that injuries are excused. You're always gonna have injuries in
this game. But I think where is in the back
of the Packers' minds is Okay, if we can get
(06:13):
some of the things to go our way on the
health front, if you bank on this young talent we
have on this roster, we're gonna get to where we
want to go. And I think particularly on the defensive interior,
we talk so much about the receiving cores and how
young they went there. Now, certainly having Kenny kind of
skews the numbers, but they did the same exact thing
on the defensive line, and we saw it with you know,
(06:34):
DeVante Wyatt. Now going into year four, you have Carl Brooks,
Kolbe Wooden. This is a very young group still that
now also has a lot of experience.
Speaker 1 (06:42):
Yeah, And I think I just want to say this
because we've heard a lot of stuff this offseason being
tossed around about Kenny Clark going into year ten. He
didn't have a great year nine, And you know, is
Kenny Clark at the end and Lucas van Ness not
living up to his you know, billing as a first
round draft pick to this point. And it's one of
(07:04):
those things where sometimes you just have to you have
to stop, you have to take a step back and
wait until you really know all the facts. Because because
Clark Clark injured that foot, the toe, whatever the major
issue was, it happened in that in the opener in Brazil,
he was on the injury report essentially for three months,
(07:26):
but he never missed a game and Kenny Clark and
Kenny Clark is interviewed as much, if not more than
anybody else in that Packers locker room, and not once
last year did he say anything about his injury. He was,
you know, and he knows he had one sack and
five quarterback hits last year. That is like career lows
for Kenny Clark. He knows statistically it was probably his
(07:48):
worst season when you just look at the numbers. But
now that everybody knows more of the facts, hopefully it's like, hey, yeah,
Kenny Clark is just going to turn thirty years old
this year. He's not necessarily done. And when it comes
to Lucas van Ness, he's trying to play with a
broken thumb, you know, different raps and whatever else, and
those things diminish over time as things get healthier. But
(08:11):
he's a young player trying to find his way with
a lot of pressure on him, and that comes with
the territory. I get it. But when you're not fully
healthy and you don't you don't have the full use
of all of your physical capabilities, you're not going to
be able to maximize on what you've got, what you
can show as a player. It's just so I just
(08:31):
I always try to caution everybody, and I think what
we heard about these two guys in particular in the
off season, it's just you got to take a step
back and wait until you really understand everything that goes on.
Because we're not going to hear it from the coaches,
We're not going to hear it from the general manager.
They're not going to reveal all these details. But when
(08:51):
the players are willing after the fact to talk about it,
we start to learn more and things that happened to
your ago start to make a little bit more sense.
Speaker 2 (08:59):
And its way into the story I wrote about the
defensive line and some of these get togethers they've had.
But one comment I really liked from Kenny too, as
he was asked by Jason Wilde about Hey, how long
do you want to do this? Yeah, and so many times,
and there's no right or wrong answer to this, but
so many times you do get them. I'm gonna go
until the wheels fall off. I'm gonna do this, or
that I want to go fifteen years or whatever. I'm
(09:19):
gonna play into my forties and Kenny's like, until my
film is regressing, Yeah, that's when I don't want to
do this anymore. When I can't go out there and
give what I've given for the last ten years, nine years,
I don't want to be here anymore. I think his
line was they need to get rid of me, Yeah,
something like that, and that it shows you his maturity,
It shows you his perspective, and it also shows you
(09:39):
that Kenny Clark doesn't think he's anywhere near that point.
He still thinks he has some good football in front
of him. And he doesn't turn thirty until October fourth.
Speaker 1 (09:46):
Yeah, isn't that crazy entering entering year ten in the
NFL and he's he's still still at twenty nine right now.
Speaker 2 (09:53):
Him and Randall Cobb, I think where I think Cob
was the same way.
Speaker 1 (09:56):
Yeah. Yeah, some other things to get to with regard
to Week two of OTAs, but I'll take care of
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(10:17):
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better all right. A couple other guys that we heard
from and I touched on some of these in a
five Things Learned at OTA's story that was posted late
in the day on Tuesday on Packers dot Com. Keishaan Nixon,
(10:40):
we sort of heard during the offseason from both general
manager Brian Gudakunst and head coach Matt Lafleur that Nixon's
comments right after the season was over about not wanting
to do kickoff returns anymore, that those might have been
just delivered out of frustration a little bit too much
emotion as it related to the loss in the playoff
(11:00):
game in Philadelphia. Well, Nixon essentially confirmed that that, yes,
he admitted he was a little emotional that day after
the playoff loss. Obviously, he had taken that nasty shot
to the head on the opening kickoff, which wasn't called
and it led to the fumble, and then the replay
still didn't give the Packers the ball back. All that
(11:21):
a big play, right, off the bat in the game
and the Eagles end up taking a seven to nothing lead.
But Nixon is he is up for what the coaches
want him to do if they want him back there
on kickoffs. With now that change in the rule that
touchbacks will be at the thirty five instead of at
(11:41):
the thirty Now Nixon isn't convinced that's going to give
him more opportunities. But if it does give him more opportunities,
I think Nixon wants to be the guy with the ball.
Speaker 2 (11:50):
In his hands. I think so too, And it was
refreshing to hear him in his perspective on this because again,
we finally are four months out from the end of
the season. You actually can start to to let that
be what it was and move forward. And I think
Keishaan with a clear mind, obviously sees what his value is.
And let's be honest too, Mike. I mean, this is
a guy that has done every single thing the Greemit
(12:11):
Packers have wanted him to do since the day he
came in. Kishaw Nixon didn't come in as a number
one corner or a perimeter starting cornerback. He came in
as a guy that was kind of a dime and
then contributing on special teams, and then if you remember
he wasn't even the returner at the beginning, that kind
of manifested itself midway through the twenty twenty one season
where it's like, okay, now he's in the cards for that, right,
(12:33):
So I should say twenty two season. But be that
as it may. Here we are going into another season.
I think the Packers and watching these practices, they have
a multitude of different options they can do, if with kickoffs,
with punts. Mkole Hardman is in that conversation. Matthew Golden
is in that conversation. But like Kishawn said, he's like,
at the end of the day, when the game's on
the line, I want the ball in my hand. So
(12:54):
I think he will ultimately end up being a part
of this kickoff consternation whatever you want to call it,
that the Packers are working through. What I'm curious to
see is with the role that he has now on defense,
how much of that do you need to take off
his plate? Maybe none. I mean, Jayden Reid's still returning
punts and is you know, the leading receiver for greing
(13:15):
to by the past two seasons, So maybe Kishan will
take the full compliment. But whatever the case may be,
this is a guy that's been an All Pro in
this league returning kickoffs and he understands the value that
presents for his football team.
Speaker 1 (13:26):
I think the difference when you're talking about, you know,
for example, the Keishaw Nixon versus Jaden Reid, when it
comes to the return game, the return team is going
out there, whether it's punt or kickoff, right after the
defense has been on the fiece. So that makes it
more difficult at times for somebody like Nixon. If the
(13:46):
defense just gives up a ten play, seventy five yard
drive for a touchdown and then oh yeah, you were
just out there on the field for all ten of
those plays. Now go return the kickoff. That might be
a little bit too much, and that's where you can
get into issues with with potential fatigue, injuries and whatnot.
But on the opening kickoff of the game, on the
opening kickoff of the second half, when when a defensive
(14:09):
player like Nixon is rested and ready to go, those
may be the opportunities where where then he is the
kickoff returner and maybe after a long defensive drive for
a score, then somebody else goes back there. I'm just
speculating here, you know, in in that regard, but but
we'll have to see, We'll have to see how that
shakes out. Another player we heard from wide receiver Romeo Dobbs.
(14:33):
He assured everyone that that he's doing well off of
the the two concussions that he had late in the season,
the second one coming in the playoff game in Philadelphia,
that that sidelined him for the rest of that game.
He didn't go into any details about his recovery. He
didn't want to, didn't want to share that. He did
say it was a long process, but he's doing well now.
(14:56):
He certainly looks great on the practice field. But I
think again in sort of these things like okay, let's
just take a step back here, and I know there
were issues with Dobbs and the suspension last year, and
it sounds like long ago everybody put that, put that
in the rearview mirror. But just step back and let's
(15:19):
give Romeo Dobbs his space to get where he wants
to get health wise, and let's see what he does
in a contract year.
Speaker 2 (15:26):
That's the only thing I care about with eighty seven
going into his fourth NFL season is just making sure
what happened at the end of last season. The human
being Romeo Dobbs a person is good. Yeah, and then
we'll take the football player thing from there. Fortunately, as
you mentioned, he's looked great in the off season program,
which is a staple of Green Bay summers the last
four years. I mean, Romeo Dobbs has always been a
(15:47):
top performer in OTA's and mini cams. Catches a ton
of passes. He was doing it again during the two
minute drill in practice both last week and on Tuesday.
So yeah, I think that part of it is cool.
The other thing I really like too, He got talking
about the young guys in that room, and as he mentioned,
you know, Matthew Golden a stud, but he also talked
about kind of the responsibility he feels to help bring
(16:10):
those guys along. Yeah, he had some veterans, not a lot,
He had a few, you know, Sammy Watkins came in here, obviously,
Alan Lazard, you know, a little taste there one season
with Randall Cobb, but for the most part, you know,
him and Christian Watson have kind of had to drive
that bus here the last two years. And for guys
like Savion Williams for Golden for even you know, you
(16:30):
look at a Dontavian Wicks, who's still an up and
coming guy. I mean, these guys that have come in
behind them. I really appreciate what he said because he's like,
I mean, they got drafted here. If they have questions,
I'm going to help them. I'm going to do whatever
I can to bring them along. So, Yeah, Romeo Dobs
has been a pros entire time here. It was unfortunate
what happened last season, but it's cool to hear his
perspective now on things, how he feels he improved from
(16:52):
that whole experience and now hopefully being able to stay
healthy er going into the twenty twenty five.
Speaker 1 (16:57):
Yeah, and another player we heard one we actually don't
hear from a lot, just because he's not keen on
a lot of the media stuff in doing interviews, but
he's certainly a big part of this of this Packers
team is right tackle Zach Tom, And in a very
engaging and extended conversation with reporters yesterday, it reminded me
(17:23):
or I sort of realized how easy it was to
forget that while Zach Tom was an absolute rock at
right tackle, and at the end of the season he
ends up, I believe, getting the third most votes all
Pro votes for the right tackle position. It becomes easy
to forget that this guy had a torn pectoral muscle
(17:43):
in the off season. He didn't participate at all in
OTAs or mini camp, and he got back on the
practice field for basically the last two weeks of training
camp to get himself ready to go week one and
to be able to play in that opener in Brazil.
And Zach tom Is is as h as quiet and
(18:05):
humble as they come. But uh, but you could sense
he he sort of revealed it a little bit that, uh,
that there was definitely some some pride that he took
in the fact that he got himself ready to play
week one and he was ready to go when the
bell rang uh last September, and UH and certainly now
(18:27):
going through this offseason completely healthy, not having to focus
on rehab, being able to focus on, you know, really
honing the craft and improving his game, he's got uh,
he's got a lot of high hopes for himself and
UH and for this team in general obviously.
Speaker 2 (18:43):
So first and foremost, there's a part of me that
still can't quite comprehend what him and Tucker Craft were
able to do.
Speaker 1 (18:49):
Yeah, as well, Both.
Speaker 2 (18:51):
Of those guys suffered the torn packs early in the
off season program, don't participate in the off season program,
and then like the on field stuff, and then both
turn in career years and differing degrees, you know, statistically
or just kind of you know, perception wise. And for Tom,
not that it's it's obviously huge for Tucker as well,
(19:12):
but for playing that position, that is fascinating tearing your
pack because it's not just about how it's going to
respond when you're playing again, it's how you build strength
to play that position. Yeah, looking at Zach Tom, I
don't think he's going to be a three hundred and
ten pound man when his playing days are over. You know,
he's you can sometimes see the structure and almost like, okay, yeah,
(19:34):
this is Look at Corey Linsley right right, right, Corey
Linsley took off like one hundred pounds quickly. You're putting
that mass on your body. It's not just always naturally
fitting like that. Yeah, for him to be able to
find a strength program that worked for him to be
able to maintain his size and his strength while not
being able to probably even bench press for four months
or whatever it ended up being. It was impressive. It
(19:57):
was impressive to see him be able to come out
play as well as you did. He's quiet, he's steadfast.
He just does his job. But the one thing that
you really think about, he's on the other side of
the offensive line. But there's so many times when I
look at him and I go, you know, in twenty thirteen,
they got David Baktiari in the fourth round, you know,
out of Colorado. They had just won one game, you know,
(20:17):
the previous year I think is his last year at college.
Speaker 1 (20:19):
Oh yeah, his last his last year at Colorado.
Speaker 2 (20:22):
And you have Zach who's at Wake Forest, which no
disrespect and no disrespect to the Demon Deacons over there.
The football program hasn't always been, you know, known as
one of the big perennial East Coast you know, acc
top dogs.
Speaker 1 (20:34):
Yeah, and he just.
Speaker 2 (20:36):
Is so steady in what he does. He finds his
way to Green Bay, you know, in you know, the
third day of the draft three years ago and now
suddenly looks like one of the best right tackles in football.
It was cool too hearing Matt Lafleur talk about it
because he was asked, you know, hey, Zach tom right
tackle right, and he said, probably that's the way. It's definitely,
that's probably it's gonna work out. But still having his
(20:57):
versatility in his back pocket too. With all this, I
I don't know. Michael Elton Jenkins has done some cool
things for the Packers. I will never take anything away
from what Elton's done. But Zach is a guy that
has completely wowed me every single time. When he got here,
I'm like, Okay, that's a guard, maybe a center. Never
could play tackle, he's too small for that.
Speaker 1 (21:14):
Yeah he does. He does not look physically like an
NFL offensive tackle, not the prototype anyway. And I'm with you,
I thought he would. I thought he would play guard
here and look at like.
Speaker 2 (21:26):
Watch his film. Yeah, it's the same thing with Dave,
Like there is just a finesse there, there is a intelligence.
And when you're talking about how engaging the conversation was,
that's Zach. He's a very smart young man. And yeah,
so I was cool. I was really happy that he
was a part of that whole media carousel. Unfortunately I
wasn't able to be over there. I was on the
other side of the room, but very interesting to hear
his comments and perspective heading into your.
Speaker 1 (21:47):
Four Yeah, somebody someday needs to do a complete study
of this Packers offensive lineman fourth round thing. I mean,
we go all the way back to two thousand and eight.
Josh Sitton was a fourth round pick too. Thousand and nine. TJ.
Lang was a fourth round pick. Two thousand and thirteen
was both Treader and Baktyari both in the fourth round.
(22:11):
Oh and then, by the way, the following year, in
the fifth round, you get Corey Linsley, who obviously all
pricked up being being a steal at that stage. And
then and then here in the Brian Gudokunst era, you
find Zach tom in the fourth round of the draft.
Speaker 2 (22:25):
It's cool too when we talk to these rookies. Now
we remember talking to John Williams about this. Guys realize that,
like if you go to Green Bay on Day three,
what that could potentially mean? Yeah, yeah, like that's not
nothing like it's actually when you used to talk about
like undrafted free agency and having a reputation. No, this place,
through generations has developed that reputation of yeah, well you
got drafted in Day three. You got drafted in the
(22:46):
seventh round like Rashid Walker, but you're gonna get a
chance to still be a star in this league. Yeah
it's impressive.
Speaker 1 (22:51):
Yeah, it's amazing. Well with that, we'll call it a
rap on this edition of Packers Unscripted. We have two
more episodes this off season, which will be next week
during the mandatory mini camp, which is the final week
of the offseason program for the players before the big
summer break, then leading up to training camp. So two
more to go, Weston.
Speaker 2 (23:12):
Yeah, buddy, I can't wait for It's gonna be a
lot of fun.
Speaker 1 (23:14):
All right for Wes, I am Mike. Thank you for
tuning in everybody, and we will see you next time.
Hi, everybody. Welcome to another edition of Packers Unscripted from
Packers dot Com. I am Mike Spoffer, joined as always
by my partner in crime, Wes Hodkowitz. We're coming to
you hear from our studios at lambeau Field to continue
us our discussion of Packers OTAs we did our show
earlier this week, kind of looking back at last week.
Since then, we have now had access to another practice,
(00:31):
another media availability, some different news and nuggets to talk about.
But I think first and foremost, having heard from multiple
defensive linemen who spoke to the media on Tuesday after practice,
it sounds like not only do these guys on the
(00:51):
defensive line get together to catch some NBA playoffs and
maybe watch or consume some pizza and wings, but it
sounds like they also bring their iPads. There's been some
study sessions at Kenny Clark's house as part of kind
of a little off season bonding and improvement.
Speaker 2 (01:12):
It's so cool when you hear these type of stories too,
because it's like, it seems like yesterday it was little
Kenny Clark with big personality, Mike Daniels leading that room,
and Julius Peppers and Clay Matthews are the outside linebackers.
And now here we are year ten. For Kenny, he's
the one now pulling guys together. He's the one now
trying to build that camaraderie among the defensive lines. So
(01:32):
basically how the story goes is, you know him and
Rashan Gary both have talked about this in the past.
They've done a lot of stuff during the season. Thursday
night football guys get together, they spend time. Kenny usually
opens up his house to you know, the younger guys
on the roster come over, hangout, talk whatever. Well, this offseason,
if you know how voluntary off season program works is
whether here Monday through Thursday, Tuesday through Friday, depending on
(01:56):
how the week orientates itself, guys are free to go
when that four day week is over, Yeah, then get
on a plane. These gift come back on money and
do whatever they want a lot of guys are choosing
to stick around this year. And as Kenny said, and
actually was Rashaun that mentioned, he's been here. This is
a seventh season now, he's not done anything like this
before where guys have been going over to Kenny and yeah,
(02:18):
they still do the wings, they still do the pizza.
But now it's been going through the individual periods of practice,
watching their film, as Kenny said, trying to show the guys,
the younger guys on the roster, how to set up locks,
what the formations look like this defense, understanding your role
in it. I think that's an important piece right now
for them because the defensive front is at an interesting
(02:38):
little crossroads here. What they did well last year, you know,
seventh ranked run defense, best performance against the run in
the last fifteen years. Well, now you're losing TJ. Slayton,
who was a big, you know, run stuffer in the
middle of that, and you're going to try to, you know,
maintain what you did. At the same time, one of
the big points of contention that guys have been discussing
(02:59):
is wanting to improve the PA rush, the four man pressures,
not have to rely so much on exotic looks, you know,
blitz packages, simulated pressures, but to actually be able to
get home with four And what Rashan was saying is
he feels like that right now has them set up
as with off to a fast start and believing that
that's me something that's going to propel them for now
into the summer.
Speaker 1 (03:20):
A little interesting nugget that I took from that is
not just the you know kind of the eleven on
eleven and whatnot. And sometimes even they're watching film of
other pass rushers around the league and you know, sharing
their thoughts as they examine, you know, other successful players,
but they're also watching the individual drills that they're doing
(03:42):
in practice. And I think what I took from that
is that that speaks to me to some of the
new methods and techniques they're being taught by DeMarcus Covington,
the new defensive line coach, that they want to watch
those individual drills and how those things are coming along
and get a chance to see, you know, how their
teammates are executing those techniques and how different guys are
(04:04):
coming along. Because you and I have been there at practice,
we see, you know, the players line up for the
certain drills and everybody kind of takes their turn. But
when you're just standing there kind of waiting in line
or catching your breath for the next rep or whatever,
you're not necessarily watching the details of how your teammate
is doing something. But if you watch the individual individual
drills on film, you can you can look at every
(04:26):
single guy and a leader leaders of the group like
Kenny Clark and Rashaan Gary, they can take a look
at how the younger guys are doing and and and
maybe point some things out to help them out before
the next practice, so that so that they maybe don't
necessarily have to hear it from the coaches or have
the coaches in their ear about stuff all the time.
So it's a it's an interesting it's an interesting process
(04:51):
that that the group is going through in the off season.
As you said, there's a lot of focus on improving
the pass rush, but they stop the run pretty darn
well last year. It's it's not and there has been
a change in position coaches, but it's not like you're
just throwing everything out and starting over. There's a lot
to work with here with what the Packers defensive line
(05:11):
accomplished in the offseason. But the bottom line, as Kenny
Clark said when he answered one of the questions about
the pass rush, is it wasn't good enough. It wasn't
good enough to win a championship. And these guys know
that they can do better, that they can produce more,
and that's what they're.
Speaker 2 (05:26):
After for sure. Mike and also understanding where I know
you're probably talking about this in a second, but understand
where these guys are at too. I mean, I'm happy
that Kenny finally sort of talked about what he was
dealing with last season. Yeah, like he'd been We knew
there was a tow injury and there was a foot
injury there that he'd been dealing with since Brazil, and
he wasn't going to blame any turf. He wasn't going
to go down that route when he was talking to us.
(05:46):
But that's September, what was it, fourth, Yeah, and then the.
Speaker 1 (05:52):
Packers are ideay of September.
Speaker 2 (05:53):
Yeah, the Packers are playing into mid to late January.
I mean, that is a long time for that thing
not to get a lot of time to heal. And
he mentioned he had surgery right after the season. On it,
Lucas Vaness was dealing with some stuff. And it's not
that injuries are excused. You're always gonna have injuries in
this game. But I think where is in the back
of the Packers' minds is Okay, if we can get
(06:13):
some of the things to go our way on the
health front, if you bank on this young talent we
have on this roster, we're gonna get to where we
want to go. And I think particularly on the defensive interior,
we talk so much about the receiving cores and how
young they went there. Now, certainly having Kenny kind of
skews the numbers, but they did the same exact thing
on the defensive line, and we saw it with you know,
(06:34):
DeVante Wyatt. Now going into year four, you have Carl Brooks,
Kolbe Wooden. This is a very young group still that
now also has a lot of experience.
Speaker 1 (06:42):
Yeah, And I think I just want to say this
because we've heard a lot of stuff this offseason being
tossed around about Kenny Clark going into year ten. He
didn't have a great year nine, And you know, is
Kenny Clark at the end and Lucas van Ness not
living up to his you know, billing as a first
round draft pick to this point. And it's one of
(07:04):
those things where sometimes you just have to you have
to stop, you have to take a step back and
wait until you really know all the facts. Because because
Clark Clark injured that foot, the toe, whatever the major
issue was, it happened in that in the opener in Brazil,
he was on the injury report essentially for three months,
(07:26):
but he never missed a game and Kenny Clark and
Kenny Clark is interviewed as much, if not more than
anybody else in that Packers locker room, and not once
last year did he say anything about his injury. He was,
you know, and he knows he had one sack and
five quarterback hits last year. That is like career lows
for Kenny Clark. He knows statistically it was probably his
(07:48):
worst season when you just look at the numbers. But
now that everybody knows more of the facts, hopefully it's like, hey, yeah,
Kenny Clark is just going to turn thirty years old
this year. He's not necessarily done. And when it comes
to Lucas van Ness, he's trying to play with a
broken thumb, you know, different raps and whatever else, and
those things diminish over time as things get healthier. But
(08:11):
he's a young player trying to find his way with
a lot of pressure on him, and that comes with
the territory. I get it. But when you're not fully
healthy and you don't you don't have the full use
of all of your physical capabilities, you're not going to
be able to maximize on what you've got, what you
can show as a player. It's just so I just
(08:31):
I always try to caution everybody, and I think what
we heard about these two guys in particular in the
off season, it's just you got to take a step
back and wait until you really understand everything that goes on.
Because we're not going to hear it from the coaches,
We're not going to hear it from the general manager.
They're not going to reveal all these details. But when
(08:51):
the players are willing after the fact to talk about it,
we start to learn more and things that happened to
your ago start to make a little bit more sense.
Speaker 2 (08:59):
And its way into the story I wrote about the
defensive line and some of these get togethers they've had.
But one comment I really liked from Kenny too, as
he was asked by Jason Wilde about Hey, how long
do you want to do this? Yeah, and so many times,
and there's no right or wrong answer to this, but
so many times you do get them. I'm gonna go
until the wheels fall off. I'm gonna do this, or
that I want to go fifteen years or whatever. I'm
(09:19):
gonna play into my forties and Kenny's like, until my
film is regressing, Yeah, that's when I don't want to
do this anymore. When I can't go out there and
give what I've given for the last ten years, nine years,
I don't want to be here anymore. I think his
line was they need to get rid of me, Yeah,
something like that, and that it shows you his maturity,
It shows you his perspective, and it also shows you
(09:39):
that Kenny Clark doesn't think he's anywhere near that point.
He still thinks he has some good football in front
of him. And he doesn't turn thirty until October fourth.
Speaker 1 (09:46):
Yeah, isn't that crazy entering entering year ten in the
NFL and he's he's still still at twenty nine right now.
Speaker 2 (09:53):
Him and Randall Cobb, I think where I think Cob
was the same way.
Speaker 1 (09:56):
Yeah. Yeah, some other things to get to with regard
to Week two of OTAs, but I'll take care of
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better all right. A couple other guys that we heard
from and I touched on some of these in a
five Things Learned at OTA's story that was posted late
in the day on Tuesday on Packers dot Com. Keishaan Nixon,
(10:40):
we sort of heard during the offseason from both general
manager Brian Gudakunst and head coach Matt Lafleur that Nixon's
comments right after the season was over about not wanting
to do kickoff returns anymore, that those might have been
just delivered out of frustration a little bit too much
emotion as it related to the loss in the playoff
(11:00):
game in Philadelphia. Well, Nixon essentially confirmed that that, yes,
he admitted he was a little emotional that day after
the playoff loss. Obviously, he had taken that nasty shot
to the head on the opening kickoff, which wasn't called
and it led to the fumble, and then the replay
still didn't give the Packers the ball back. All that
(11:21):
a big play, right, off the bat in the game
and the Eagles end up taking a seven to nothing lead.
But Nixon is he is up for what the coaches
want him to do if they want him back there
on kickoffs. With now that change in the rule that
touchbacks will be at the thirty five instead of at
(11:41):
the thirty Now Nixon isn't convinced that's going to give
him more opportunities. But if it does give him more opportunities,
I think Nixon wants to be the guy with the ball.
Speaker 2 (11:50):
In his hands. I think so too, And it was
refreshing to hear him in his perspective on this because again,
we finally are four months out from the end of
the season. You actually can start to to let that
be what it was and move forward. And I think
Keishaan with a clear mind, obviously sees what his value is.
And let's be honest too, Mike. I mean, this is
a guy that has done every single thing the Greemit
(12:11):
Packers have wanted him to do since the day he
came in. Kishaw Nixon didn't come in as a number
one corner or a perimeter starting cornerback. He came in
as a guy that was kind of a dime and
then contributing on special teams, and then if you remember
he wasn't even the returner at the beginning, that kind
of manifested itself midway through the twenty twenty one season
where it's like, okay, now he's in the cards for that, right,
(12:33):
So I should say twenty two season. But be that
as it may. Here we are going into another season.
I think the Packers and watching these practices, they have
a multitude of different options they can do, if with kickoffs,
with punts. Mkole Hardman is in that conversation. Matthew Golden
is in that conversation. But like Kishawn said, he's like,
at the end of the day, when the game's on
the line, I want the ball in my hand. So
(12:54):
I think he will ultimately end up being a part
of this kickoff consternation whatever you want to call it,
that the Packers are working through. What I'm curious to
see is with the role that he has now on defense,
how much of that do you need to take off
his plate? Maybe none. I mean, Jayden Reid's still returning
punts and is you know, the leading receiver for greing
(13:15):
to by the past two seasons, So maybe Kishan will
take the full compliment. But whatever the case may be,
this is a guy that's been an All Pro in
this league returning kickoffs and he understands the value that
presents for his football team.
Speaker 1 (13:26):
I think the difference when you're talking about, you know,
for example, the Keishaw Nixon versus Jaden Reid, when it
comes to the return game, the return team is going
out there, whether it's punt or kickoff, right after the
defense has been on the fiece. So that makes it
more difficult at times for somebody like Nixon. If the
(13:46):
defense just gives up a ten play, seventy five yard
drive for a touchdown and then oh yeah, you were
just out there on the field for all ten of
those plays. Now go return the kickoff. That might be
a little bit too much, and that's where you can
get into issues with with potential fatigue, injuries and whatnot.
But on the opening kickoff of the game, on the
opening kickoff of the second half, when when a defensive
(14:09):
player like Nixon is rested and ready to go, those
may be the opportunities where where then he is the
kickoff returner and maybe after a long defensive drive for
a score, then somebody else goes back there. I'm just
speculating here, you know, in in that regard, but but
we'll have to see, We'll have to see how that
shakes out. Another player we heard from wide receiver Romeo Dobbs.
(14:33):
He assured everyone that that he's doing well off of
the the two concussions that he had late in the season,
the second one coming in the playoff game in Philadelphia,
that that sidelined him for the rest of that game.
He didn't go into any details about his recovery. He
didn't want to, didn't want to share that. He did
say it was a long process, but he's doing well now.
(14:56):
He certainly looks great on the practice field. But I
think again in sort of these things like okay, let's
just take a step back here, and I know there
were issues with Dobbs and the suspension last year, and
it sounds like long ago everybody put that, put that
in the rearview mirror. But just step back and let's
(15:19):
give Romeo Dobbs his space to get where he wants
to get health wise, and let's see what he does
in a contract year.
Speaker 2 (15:26):
That's the only thing I care about with eighty seven
going into his fourth NFL season is just making sure
what happened at the end of last season. The human
being Romeo Dobbs a person is good. Yeah, and then
we'll take the football player thing from there. Fortunately, as
you mentioned, he's looked great in the off season program,
which is a staple of Green Bay summers the last
four years. I mean, Romeo Dobbs has always been a
(15:47):
top performer in OTA's and mini cams. Catches a ton
of passes. He was doing it again during the two
minute drill in practice both last week and on Tuesday.
So yeah, I think that part of it is cool.
The other thing I really like too, He got talking
about the young guys in that room, and as he mentioned,
you know, Matthew Golden a stud, but he also talked
about kind of the responsibility he feels to help bring
(16:10):
those guys along. Yeah, he had some veterans, not a lot,
He had a few, you know, Sammy Watkins came in here, obviously,
Alan Lazard, you know, a little taste there one season
with Randall Cobb, but for the most part, you know,
him and Christian Watson have kind of had to drive
that bus here the last two years. And for guys
like Savion Williams for Golden for even you know, you
(16:30):
look at a Dontavian Wicks, who's still an up and
coming guy. I mean, these guys that have come in
behind them. I really appreciate what he said because he's like,
I mean, they got drafted here. If they have questions,
I'm going to help them. I'm going to do whatever
I can to bring them along. So, Yeah, Romeo Dobs
has been a pros entire time here. It was unfortunate
what happened last season, but it's cool to hear his
perspective now on things, how he feels he improved from
(16:52):
that whole experience and now hopefully being able to stay
healthy er going into the twenty twenty five.
Speaker 1 (16:57):
Yeah, and another player we heard one we actually don't
hear from a lot, just because he's not keen on
a lot of the media stuff in doing interviews, but
he's certainly a big part of this of this Packers
team is right tackle Zach Tom, And in a very
engaging and extended conversation with reporters yesterday, it reminded me
(17:23):
or I sort of realized how easy it was to
forget that while Zach Tom was an absolute rock at
right tackle, and at the end of the season he
ends up, I believe, getting the third most votes all
Pro votes for the right tackle position. It becomes easy
to forget that this guy had a torn pectoral muscle
(17:43):
in the off season. He didn't participate at all in
OTAs or mini camp, and he got back on the
practice field for basically the last two weeks of training
camp to get himself ready to go week one and
to be able to play in that opener in Brazil.
And Zach tom Is is as h as quiet and
(18:05):
humble as they come. But uh, but you could sense
he he sort of revealed it a little bit that, uh,
that there was definitely some some pride that he took
in the fact that he got himself ready to play
week one and he was ready to go when the
bell rang uh last September, and UH and certainly now
(18:27):
going through this offseason completely healthy, not having to focus
on rehab, being able to focus on, you know, really
honing the craft and improving his game, he's got uh,
he's got a lot of high hopes for himself and
UH and for this team in general obviously.
Speaker 2 (18:43):
So first and foremost, there's a part of me that
still can't quite comprehend what him and Tucker Craft were
able to do.
Speaker 1 (18:49):
Yeah, as well, Both.
Speaker 2 (18:51):
Of those guys suffered the torn packs early in the
off season program, don't participate in the off season program,
and then like the on field stuff, and then both
turn in career years and differing degrees, you know, statistically
or just kind of you know, perception wise. And for Tom,
not that it's it's obviously huge for Tucker as well,
(19:12):
but for playing that position, that is fascinating tearing your
pack because it's not just about how it's going to
respond when you're playing again, it's how you build strength
to play that position. Yeah, looking at Zach Tom, I
don't think he's going to be a three hundred and
ten pound man when his playing days are over. You know,
he's you can sometimes see the structure and almost like, okay, yeah,
(19:34):
this is Look at Corey Linsley right right, right, Corey
Linsley took off like one hundred pounds quickly. You're putting
that mass on your body. It's not just always naturally
fitting like that. Yeah, for him to be able to
find a strength program that worked for him to be
able to maintain his size and his strength while not
being able to probably even bench press for four months
or whatever it ended up being. It was impressive. It
(19:57):
was impressive to see him be able to come out
play as well as you did. He's quiet, he's steadfast.
He just does his job. But the one thing that
you really think about, he's on the other side of
the offensive line. But there's so many times when I
look at him and I go, you know, in twenty thirteen,
they got David Baktiari in the fourth round, you know,
out of Colorado. They had just won one game, you know,
(20:17):
the previous year I think is his last year at college.
Speaker 1 (20:19):
Oh yeah, his last his last year at Colorado.
Speaker 2 (20:22):
And you have Zach who's at Wake Forest, which no
disrespect and no disrespect to the Demon Deacons over there.
The football program hasn't always been, you know, known as
one of the big perennial East Coast you know, acc
top dogs.
Speaker 1 (20:34):
Yeah, and he just.
Speaker 2 (20:36):
Is so steady in what he does. He finds his
way to Green Bay, you know, in you know, the
third day of the draft three years ago and now
suddenly looks like one of the best right tackles in football.
It was cool too hearing Matt Lafleur talk about it
because he was asked, you know, hey, Zach tom right
tackle right, and he said, probably that's the way. It's definitely,
that's probably it's gonna work out. But still having his
(20:57):
versatility in his back pocket too. With all this, I
I don't know. Michael Elton Jenkins has done some cool
things for the Packers. I will never take anything away
from what Elton's done. But Zach is a guy that
has completely wowed me every single time. When he got here,
I'm like, Okay, that's a guard, maybe a center. Never
could play tackle, he's too small for that.
Speaker 1 (21:14):
Yeah he does. He does not look physically like an
NFL offensive tackle, not the prototype anyway. And I'm with you,
I thought he would. I thought he would play guard
here and look at like.
Speaker 2 (21:26):
Watch his film. Yeah, it's the same thing with Dave,
Like there is just a finesse there, there is a intelligence.
And when you're talking about how engaging the conversation was,
that's Zach. He's a very smart young man. And yeah,
so I was cool. I was really happy that he
was a part of that whole media carousel. Unfortunately I
wasn't able to be over there. I was on the
other side of the room, but very interesting to hear
his comments and perspective heading into your.
Speaker 1 (21:47):
Four Yeah, somebody someday needs to do a complete study
of this Packers offensive lineman fourth round thing. I mean,
we go all the way back to two thousand and eight.
Josh Sitton was a fourth round pick too. Thousand and nine. TJ.
Lang was a fourth round pick. Two thousand and thirteen
was both Treader and Baktyari both in the fourth round.
(22:11):
Oh and then, by the way, the following year, in
the fifth round, you get Corey Linsley, who obviously all
pricked up being being a steal at that stage. And
then and then here in the Brian Gudokunst era, you
find Zach tom in the fourth round of the draft.
Speaker 2 (22:25):
It's cool too when we talk to these rookies. Now
we remember talking to John Williams about this. Guys realize that,
like if you go to Green Bay on Day three,
what that could potentially mean? Yeah, yeah, like that's not
nothing like it's actually when you used to talk about
like undrafted free agency and having a reputation. No, this place,
through generations has developed that reputation of yeah, well you
got drafted in Day three. You got drafted in the
(22:46):
seventh round like Rashid Walker, but you're gonna get a
chance to still be a star in this league. Yeah
it's impressive.
Speaker 1 (22:51):
Yeah, it's amazing. Well with that, we'll call it a
rap on this edition of Packers Unscripted. We have two
more episodes this off season, which will be next week
during the mandatory mini camp, which is the final week
of the offseason program for the players before the big
summer break, then leading up to training camp. So two
more to go, Weston.
Speaker 2 (23:12):
Yeah, buddy, I can't wait for It's gonna be a
lot of fun.
Speaker 1 (23:14):
All right for Wes, I am Mike. Thank you for
tuning in everybody, and we will see you next time.
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