November 25, 2025 • 32 mins
Mike and Wes review the victory over the Vikings – including RB Emanuel Wilson’s breakout game (:37), the big turnover on special teams (4:59) and the dominant defensive effort (9:26) – as well as preview the Thanksgiving game in Detroit, looking at the Lions on both sides of the ball (17:12). They also give Green Bay’s keys to victory (20:50) and look at Chicago’s big Black Friday matchup (29:21).
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:06):
Hi, everybody. Welcome to another edition of Packers Unscripted from
Packers dot Com. I am Mike Spofford, joined by the
one and only Wes Hodkowitz. We're coming to you here
from our studios at Lambefield, Wes for another double duty
episode because we only have one show this week. No,
not your fault this time, only one show this week
because of the Thursday game in Detroit on Thanksgiving. So
(00:29):
we will review the Vikings, we will preview the Lions,
and try to cram it all into one show. Twenty
three to six was the final score at lambeau Field
over Minnesota, a solid effort in all three phases by
the Packers. To me, this game came down to three things.
Emmanuel Wilson's breakout game, a massive turnover on special teams
(00:54):
that altered the course of the football game, and then
an absolutely smothering defense by the Packers in the second half.
So I'll let you take whichever one of those you
want to start with.
Speaker 2 (01:05):
You know what I want to start with, the Emmanuel
Wilson story, if I may, sure. I know everybody likes
to talk offense. Offense sometimes gets a little bit too
many eyeballs. On it. But this was a very precarious
position Green Bay was put into because Josh Jacobs, by
all intentsive purposes, probably was healthy enough to play in
this game. But you got the Detroit Lions on Thanksgiving
(01:25):
at Ford Field on that tour four days later. Do
you really want to rush him back after the bone
bruise and then have him play two punishing football games
in a matter of four days. They decide to roll
the dice with Emmanuel Wilson and also Chris Brooks and
use those two in a platoon to sort of navigate
this matchup. Boy golly, did Emmanuel Wilson prove the Green
(01:46):
Bay Packers correct? Yep. His first NFL start ends up
becoming the first one hundred yard rushing performance individually by
the Packers this season. He plows into the end zone
for two touchdowns and in doing so, becomes the first
Packers player and only the second one since the merger
to have one hundred plus rushing yards two plus touchdowns
in their first career start since Sam con Gato in
(02:09):
two thousand and five. And I felt like this actually
was that type of performance. Emmanuel didn't break like a
huge explosive run, but he continually pushed the pile. You
know what really impresses me about him. This has nothing
to do with him being an undrafted free agent, nothing
about him being a former Division two star at Fort
Valley State. It's the fact that he has a really
(02:30):
explosive burst, but he still maintains the power to really
launch himself into linebackers. Yeah, that's a unique combination. A
lot of running backs don't have it, and in this
particular game, the Packers rode him to victory. With all
the mistakes that the Minnesota Vikings were playing, the Packers
were able to play it safe and rest A lot
of guys be able to navigate this type of matchup
(02:51):
by establishing the run and running the ball continually.
Speaker 1 (02:54):
Yeah. What I really liked seeing from Wilson in his
first NFL start and first really truly extended action we
got to see was the combination that he does bring
in terms of both his vision and his power. There
were some tough runs where he had to make a
quick decision with his feet at the line of scrimmage
to you know, to get what was there, even if
(03:16):
it was only just three or four yards, but to
get what was there to move the chains to put
the offense in a good position, and there were other
times where he kept the pads down and he powered through.
I mean, that first touchdown run he had at the
goal line was really impressive. The second effort that he
showed there, and the reason you're allowed to have a
(03:37):
second effort is because you have the pad level and
the balance to absorb the first hit and stay on
your feet to allow yourself to power across the goal line.
I really liked what Wilson did there. As far as
how this game unfolded, the Vikings just weren't doing much
on offense. The defense got a huge stop in the
(03:59):
red zone. Minnesota was running the ball with Jones and
Mason pushing the ball down the field on the ground,
and it came down to a third and one in
the red zone. They got a little tricky with TJ.
Hockinson coming across taking the direct snap. The Packers get
the stuff there. They go forward on fourth and one,
they hand it off to Jordan Mason and he gets
(04:21):
stuffed as well. So the turnover on downs and the
red zone was big. Other than that, all the Vikings
were able to do was kick two very long field
goals fifty two and fifty nine yards, so they were
never really threatening the end zone on those other two possessions.
But the game goes into halftime with just a ten
to six lead. Packers were getting the ball coming out
(04:43):
at the start of the second half, and you're thinking, Okay,
you go down and get a score, you go up,
you know, a couple of scores, and then let's see
what happens. Well, the Packers' offense got across the fifty
but then had a penalty stalled out. The Packers have
to punt, and then that's when the game changed because
zan and made probably what would have to be considered
the play of the year on special teams so far
(05:05):
for the Packers in twenty twenty five, Miles Price, the
young punt returner and dangerous punt returner for the Vikings,
the ball is sailing over his head inside the ten
yard line, so he gives up on it and says, okay,
I need to go block somebody so that the Packers
can't down the ball close to the goal line, and
(05:25):
in the midst of engaging Zane Anderson, Daniel Wheelan's backspin
end over end the ausse style punt comes back and
Anderson sees the ball, Price doesn't. Anderson shoves Price into
the ball, the contact makes it live. He falls on it,
so the Packers end up getting the touchdown a couple
of plays later. That was sort of the start of
(05:46):
the second half touchdown and when this game got to
seventeen to six, it was pretty much Curtains at that point.
Speaker 2 (05:52):
An excellent overview of this, and I want to look
at it from two different perspectives, if I may, am
I allowed to do that? Sure? The first one is,
I know there was a lot of converse say earlier
this season about the decision to have Romeo Dobbs inside
the twenty. These are the reasons why a lot of
times you want to have a veteran player at least
somebody that knows the game situation. I'm not saying anything
about Price here, I'm saying the strictly in terms of
the Packers strategy. Price, by staying close to the ball
(06:15):
inside the ten yard line, made himself susceptible to being
pushed into it, which is Zane was telling us after
the game, is exactly what he was trying to do.
Is one of the flyers on that play he saw
where the ball was and it was such a quirky bounce.
I mean, it was just an odd bounce where it
just kind of pushed right to the right. It was
almost like it went on like a trajectory, like it
hit like an invisible wall and just darted towards the sidelines.
(06:37):
It was great by Daniel, as he'd been saying he's
been looking for that type of good bounce all season
because at some point there is just a little bit
of luck involved there. But the fact is, like a
lot of times you'll see Rome when he's back there,
he will evade or look for a block or something
like that, and then just whatever happens inside the twenty happens.
But you're not leaving yourself open to a muff punt
by running into it. Anderson drives him into the ball
(07:01):
and was able to jump right on it, and it
was hilarious listen to him talk about it afterwards because
he's like that pile felt like forever as the referees
are trying to get it going in there, and he.
Speaker 1 (07:11):
Was on top of it right away, was on the
bottom of it, but the referees couldn't sort it out,
and Anderson had the ball the whole time.
Speaker 2 (07:17):
And Anderson said, I mean there was guys from his
team saying, Zaane, do you got it? Do you got it?
There's guys from the Vikings that that are jousting for it,
are asking price if he had gotten it. And then
finally it comes out and here he is at the
five yard line. Two plays later, boom boom, Emmanuel Wilson
plows that thing into the end zone for a score
and really the game breaking, kind of backbreaking score in
(07:37):
this one. What I love about it is there was
a time probably about ten years ago, and I think
this is one of the big, really nice shifts that
Green Bay has made under the Brian Goodkinz era, where
they've dedicated themselves to developing players who might not necessarily
contribute on defense or offense. But our core special teams guy,
Zane Anderson epitomizes that he was here for now in
this third season, but has very rarely played on defense
(08:00):
unless really in a case of emergency, and he's filled
in well there when he has. But the fact is
they have him as a core four guy, and for
so long he was kind of a pass personal protector
on punt coverage and then really since Corey Ballentine left.
They pushed him outside to be opposite of being Bo
Melton now and he's been money And as Daniel said afterwards,
they call him white Lightning. And he got down there
(08:22):
in a hurry and listening to Wheeland wieland will never
be one to really give himself any credit. He talked
about having the benefit of having two of the fastest
flyers in the National Football League as disposal, but for
him also to have three punts inside the twenty in
this game a field position maestro. That's why Green Bay
was able to win this game. They made JJ McCarthy
go the long way and he could.
Speaker 1 (08:43):
Not do it. Yeah, absolutely, I mean this was This
was a Viking special teams unit as a whole that
is one of the best in the league. And Rich
Bisaccia talked about that last Thursday before the game. And
when you see Will record makes field goals of fifty
two and fifty nine yards two times on punts the
Packers got pinned inside the ten yard line. This and
(09:05):
Miles Price has had some you know, dynamic returns this year. This,
this is a Viking special teams unit that is at
the top of the league. And because of the turnover,
the play by Anderson, the Packers were actually able to
win the special team's battle against one of the one
of the best units out there. So that was huge.
And then just the fact that the Packers got the
(09:26):
eleven point lead, a multi score lead. It's seventeen to six,
And as I wrote in my Rapid Reaction editorial after
the game, Hey, Jeff Hafley called his shot man. He
stood there at the podium on Thursday. He was absorbing
all the questions about where's the pass rush, like what's happening?
And he said, hey, look here. You know, the Packers
(09:46):
as a whole, as an entire team, have not been
able to play the type of game they want to play.
The Packers had not had a multi scored lead since Pittsburgh.
And what did we see in Pittsburgh with a multi
score lead. Micah Parson slammed the door right. The Packers
finally get another multi score lead after the turnover and
the touchdown, and then the pass rush was just unleashed
(10:08):
and JJ McCarthy was overmatched. The Vikings offensive line was overmatched.
Parsons gets two sacks, Devonte Wyatt gets two sacks. Two
of those almost result in safeties twice. The Vikings are
punning essentially eleven yard punt snaps from the one to
the back of the end zone when normally a punt
snap is fifteen yards. They're punning with short snaps at
(10:30):
the back of the end zone twice in the game.
The Packers take advantage of the field position, add a
couple of field goals get it to a three score game.
And as you had said, you know, took the air
out of the ball and all that, and just got
the clock to zero and got to the finish line
in this one. But this just shows you what the Packers'
defense is capable of when they have a multi score
(10:54):
lead to protect and the opponent has to throw the
ball because you can't just try to grind out yards
on the ground and you know, risk spending seven, eight,
nine minutes on the clock to get one score when
you're down by a couple of scores. That's where the
Vikings found themselves and they were overmatched.
Speaker 2 (11:11):
One thing I loved about this matchup with what Green
Bay did defensively, was it was the Micah Parson show again.
He went over ten sacks on the season with his
two sacks three quarterback hits numerous pressures, some of which
helped lead to those Davante Wyatt opportunities for sure, but
it came in all shapes, all forms, all sizes. You
(11:31):
saw Warren Brinson, the Packers' rookie sixth round pick, have
five pressures in this game and his first career sack,
sharing that with ISAAMH McDuffie in a really interesting looking front.
I don't know if we still had one what you
might have missed. My goodness, man, the way to break
that down where you got DeVante Wyatt lined up as
a five tech edge, seven tech you know edge, and
(11:52):
then you have you know, all these plethora of defenders
lined up every where. It was just everything was in
fluid sinc motion, and Warren Brinson never stopped moving his feet.
He just kept charging through the middle and he ends
up driving up some of that contact there with JJ
McCarthy and Isaiah McDuffie also on a blitz you know,
(12:16):
was able to finish that play. It just it was
so beautiful to watch. And for Green Bay, they were leaking,
you know, for rushing yards in the first half, eighty
six yards between Mason and Jones. Those guys had a
combined negative three yards in the second half. The only
rushing yards the Vikings had were off of JJ McCarthy scrambles.
Now you could say part of that being okay, well,
the Vikings kind of got away from what they were
(12:37):
doing well, But realistically, once they fell into seventeen to six,
then they were having to sort of get out of
their game plan, which I think honestly was, let's just
try to run those two as much as we can.
See what kind of opportunities happened with the passing game
from there. When JJ McCarthy had to drop back and
he got into third and long situations, it did not
end well for Minnesota. And what I really liked about
the defensive performance three straight three and out after the turnover,
(13:02):
the giveaway, and then it was followed by two interceptions,
McDuffie's first career interception and then Evan Williams putting the
icing on the cake. You wrote about it on Saturday.
Micah Parsons has been the closer for this defense and
he was again. But my goodness, the setup men, the holds, everything, Yeah,
I mean, it was incredible to watch it all come together.
Speaker 1 (13:20):
Yeah, it was a heck of a catch by McDuffie
on his interception. I'll give him credit for that as well.
And Rashan Gary coming around on the edge and getting
a little piece of the ball as McCarthy was throwing that,
so that threw off the whole trajectory of the pass
and McDuffie was able to make the diving catch Evan
Williams interception later on the bad overthrow. Unfortunately, find we
found out on Monday. JJ McCarthy was probably concussed at
(13:45):
the time he threw the second interception. If you look
at the film the two plays leading up to the
second interception, he scrambled and took a hit when he
went down, and then he was also knocked down in
the pocket when he threw a pass on the next play.
Those plays did not look good for for JJ McCarthy
and is probably where he sustained the head injury and
(14:06):
then he threw the second interception. But the Packers defense
just completely overwhelmed Minnesota in the second half, and it
speaks to when we talk about having the multi score lead,
putting the other team in that position, it speaks to
how big the red zone stop was in the first half,
because because if the Vikings get if the Vikings even
(14:29):
if they decide to just kick the field goal there.
I think Kevin O'Connell decided he went for it there
on fourth and one because even though he had failed
on third and one, he went forward on fourth and
one because he decided, well, we're probably not going to
beat the Packers that lambeau Field by kicking field goals, right,
which is you know which you know, you can understand that,
you can understand that decision, and the Packers getting the
(14:50):
stop there allowing no points on that drive. That's what's
set up being able to then have the bigger lead
in the second half and go from there. We do
need to turn the page to the line. If you're
ready to do that. The game is coming up here
very quickly. But before we do that, we'll pay some
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Wisconsin dot com slash Wonders. Thanksgiving Day in Detroit, West
We've done it multiple times in the past. I haven't.
I've lost count now of how many times I've covered
Packers Lions in Detroit on thanks.
Speaker 2 (16:07):
My third actually okay, I think it was thirteen two
years ago, and now this one.
Speaker 1 (16:11):
Okay, and I've been at home, and I believe I
covered three before that, oh seven, nine and eleven, So
so yeah, this is would be up to seven? Would
this be my seventh? Yeah?
Speaker 2 (16:22):
Wow?
Speaker 1 (16:23):
To ask you and then and it will be the
third consecutive Thanksgiving game for the Packers, having played at
Detroit two years ago and then hosting a Thanksgiving game
last year. But here's where we are, West The Packers
are seven to three and one, just behind the eight
and three Chicago Bears in the NFC North. The Detroit
Lions are right on the Packers heels at seven and four.
(16:46):
They are coming off of a wild kind of shootout
type overtime win against the New York Giants. The Lions
tied the game at the right at the end of
regulation with a long fifty eight to fifty nine yard
field goal by Baits, and then Jamiir Gibbs first play
from scrimmage in overtime goes sixty nine yards for a touchdown,
(17:06):
and that's what wins it for Detroit. The Lions have
been you know, they've been up and down this season.
There's no there's no two ways about it. This is
a team that only lost two games all regular season
last year. They've lost four and they were on the
verge of losing number five on Sunday. But this is
kind of their bread and butter, right. They know they
(17:27):
play at home on Thanksgiving every year. They know the
stakes of the game. The crowd is going to be there.
This is not one of those road games where you're
gonna see a lot of Green Bay Packer fans in
the stands because this is the game the Detroit fans
always come out for big challenge here for green Bay.
Speaker 2 (17:45):
I'll be honest with you, Mike, I really have had
a hard time making sense of the Lions this season.
As much as fans won to talk about green Bay
and sort of the ups and downs and the inconsistency,
I think has been the big buzzword. The Lions have
kind of been on that similar track specifically offensively. You know,
There's been times where Jamiir Gibbs and this running game
(18:06):
look absolutely unstoppable. There's been times where I thought Jared
Goff has played like an MVP. Last week a'm and
Ross Saint Brown was incredible. But then you go back
two weeks ago against Philadelphia, it looked like offensively they
couldn't do a single thing right right and Goff completed
was like fourteen to thirty four passes something like that.
Speaker 1 (18:27):
It was well below fifty the game.
Speaker 2 (18:30):
They've been done a little bit of everything. But you
know what that is, Mike. It makes them dangerous and
they're super talented. They play well at home. I will
be interested to see how they handle back to back
games on their turf in that field. I mean, that
is a punishing thing to do, regardless of playing at
Ford Field, just in general, playing twice in four days
on a turf field is not easy. So we'll be
(18:50):
interested to see how they look. But I mean they
they're right up there. And if the Green Bay Packers
are going to make a claim this season to be
a Super Bowl contender, to be one of the NFL,
he's a lead. These are the type of matchups you
have to go through. They took care of business against
the Vikings, and they did so in a handling manner,
something that we all talked about. We wanted to see
them sort of give it, just dominate another team, right,
(19:13):
not have it down to the final minute, final two
minutes of a game, really have this thing in hand.
They did that against Minnesota. Well, now you're going to
be facing a team that is looking more complete, but
at the same time also had to go through a gritty,
down to the wire game with the Giants, just like
the Packers did. So just very interested to watch this one.
It's going to be really fascinating.
Speaker 1 (19:32):
Yeah, and you mentioned the inconsistencies on offense they've gone
through the transition. They lose Ben Johnson obviously, their offensive
coordinator goes to coach the Bears. John Morton takes over
as offensive coordinator. A few weeks ago, Dan Campbell takes
the play calling from Morton, and he's the one calling
the plays the head coach now on offense. There's been
some ups and downs on the defense though as well,
(19:52):
because when you look at I mean, the Lions defense
was really, really tough against the Philadelphia Eagles in Philadelphia,
a tough place to play. The Lions were not able
to win that game, but their defense looked incredibly stout.
Then they come back seven days later, they're playing at
home against a two win Giants team and they give
(20:13):
up five hundred plus yards. They're on the field for
seventy seven plays, which could definitely factor into this one.
On a short week, the Lions defense had seventy seven
snaps on Sunday, the Packers defense only had forty four,
So that'll be something to watch this Thursday's game unfolds.
But yet at the same time, you go, well, but
this is a defense that has Aiden Hutchinson and it
(20:34):
has you know, Kirby Joseph, and I know Kirby Joseph's
on the injury report, right now, but you know, you know,
the talent is there. They got a Lee McNeil back
in the middle of that defensive line, which is which
is a big piece for them. So I'm just gonna
throw it out to you right away. Keys to victory
here for green Bay. What do the Packers have to
do to come out on top?
Speaker 2 (20:55):
Well, they have to stop Gibbs in no disrespect, I
mean David Montgomery too, although has been more of the
home run threat this season. And I feel like, if
you go back to that first matchup, what did Green
Bay do really well at its play, at their play
you know its places. It dominated the trenches, right, the
Packers defensive front imposed their will against the Lions. Afterwards,
(21:16):
Micah Parson's talking about that matchup with Penny Sool how
he's like, you're gonna be my new rival, right, just
Likewayne Johnson was his rival with the Eagles, and sure
he had a really good game against School. So I
think being able to contain Gibbs in the home run
threat he provides that is the It's kind of similar
to what the thing is with Saquon right with with
(21:38):
the Eagles, It's like he can beat you on one
or two plays and that could be the game. Yep,
Gibbs has that same factor because if you allow him
to make this a third and short game, that's when
amanas Saint Brown becomes really dangerous. Now they don't have
Samula Porter, they lose one of their big, you know,
needle movers there at tight end due to the back surgery.
Speaker 1 (21:56):
Yeah, both of these teams losing big, big weapons at
tight end were huge parts of their offense, with Laporte
on one side, Tucker Craft on the other.
Speaker 2 (22:04):
Yeah, and the Lions defense. Somebody had asked me about
this an inbox and what I thought about him, and
the thing is is that, yeah, they've been inconsistent at times,
but statistically they are better than they were last year.
The difference is that the bench doesn't go very deep.
They kind of are what they are as far as
their starters are concerned, and if they're all out there
and they're all healthy, probably one of the better units
in the league. I think Muhammad is a really intriguing
(22:27):
pass rusher. He's been a nice compliment this season to Hutchinson,
and I love their linebackers with Derek Barnes and obviously
Jack Campbell, a couple of years back, Campbell and Gibbs.
That was two draft picks that kind of raised everybody's
eyebrows and they've been sort of the cornerstones for what
Detroit's been building here. So it's not going to be
an easy matchup. But if Green Bay can manage to
win the ground game, especially, that would help. If Josh
(22:48):
Jacobs is back in the fold, that is I feel
like the most true path to victory in this one.
Speaker 1 (22:53):
Yeah, the one thing I would say that's the caveat
to the Giants and what they did offensively with the
five hundred plus yards and all the points that they
put up against the Lions. They did run two trick
plays for touchdowns, and the Lions clearly just weren't prepared
for Jamis Winston and the Giants to come out with
all the trickeration and whatnot in order, and they were
able to score twice. I mean, I don't know if
(23:14):
I've ever seen a team score twice on trick plays
and then lose the game. But the Giants managed to,
and then their defensive coordinator got fired on Monday, So
there's that. I don't want to make this, you know me.
I don't like to oversimplify things. But in this day
and age of the you know of the sound bites
and the quippie quotes. To me, this game comes down
(23:37):
to tackle Jumior Gibbs and Blockaden Hutchinson. Those are the
two guys who can give you a long day on
either side of the ball, right and if the Packers
can somehow just contain the impact that those two guys
are going to have. I really like Green Bay's chances
in this game. But as you said, with Gibbs, you
know he's Jamiir. Gibbs has become as big a home
(24:02):
run hitter as there is at running back in the
NFL right now. He's up there with Barkley, He's up
there with Jonathan Taylor of the Colts, a guy who
can take at the distance at any moment. In baseball,
you can intentionally walk the home run hitter when you
want to and not have to deal with him for
a couple of more innings. It doesn't work that way
with running backs in the NFL. You have to tackle him,
(24:23):
you have to contain him. He's going to get the ball,
He's going to get it a lot. He has really
taken over in terms of the touches the one two
punch with David Montgomery. Montgomery's still doing his thing, but
he doesn't get the ball as often as Gibbs does.
Gibbs is a much, much bigger part of this offense now.
And on the other side, the Packers completely neutralized Hutchinson
(24:43):
in Week one, but that was his first game back
from the long layoff and the really bad injury that
he had last season. Hutchinson is looking a lot more
like the Aiden Hutchinson that was on his way to
potentially Defensive Player of the Year last year before he
got hurt, and the Packers they have to new him
again the best they can.
Speaker 2 (25:01):
Yeah, one thing I want to add too that I
think it really bodes well for Green Bay. They have
to have a better performance against the run. But one
thing that's going to be very different than this game
than it was against Minnesota is you're going to see
more base defense. It's just the way you have to
match up with the lines, especially on early downs. And
by and large, the Packers rested. When you look at
their base I mean Colby Wooden, his snap counts were down.
(25:24):
Nazir Stacko has played three snaps. You look at you know,
kings Lanningbari. He was able to kind of have some
time off. They should be relatively fresh. In addition to
the fact that again we'll have to see what all means,
the Packers estimated that Kway Walker would have been returning
in limited capacity if they would have practiced on Monday.
That's big after he didn't practice at all last week,
potentially having him available and if not, then you'll go
(25:45):
with Isaiah McDuffie. But that you go back to that
first game, Mike. It's the way they played in the
defensive front, and it's the way the linebackers attacked the
way that Walker, Cooper and when he was out there,
Isaiah McDuffie got after gibbson Montgomery, both of those guys
being neutralized. I want to say they kept him under
a hundred yards despite having somewhere around thirty carries. You
(26:07):
do that again, you're gonna have a chance.
Speaker 1 (26:08):
Yeah, And you really like the way the Packers' linebackers
are playing that whole group of four. I know Walker
didn't play in this last game, but Kway Walker, Edrin Cooper,
ISAA mcduffee, Tyron Hopper when he gets in there. What
that entire group is doing has been really impressive. The
other thing we need to mention on defense, Keishawn Nixon
exited the Minnesota game with a shoulder stinger. Did not
(26:29):
return to the game was estimated as they did not
participate as far as the injury report the practice estimation.
On Monday, Kamal Haddn't stepped in got his first defensive
action of the season. Young guy who was a six
round draft pick of the Kansas City Chiefs last year.
He didn't make it in Kansas City. The Packers signed
him to the practice squad. Spent all year last year
(26:50):
on the practice squad, maybe got one or two elevations
for game day, but then he's been on the active
roster this year. He made the team coming out of
training camp, but he hasn't played and suddenly he got
thrown into action and he very well could have a
big role in this game against the Lions. It was
good to see what he was able to do and
sort of getting his feet wet against the Vikings. This
(27:11):
becomes a whole nother challenge now playing the Detroit Lions
on the road on Thanksgiving in a much much bigger game.
Speaker 2 (27:17):
You can see why and it's such a small sample size,
but watching a little bit of his clips in his
film from that game against the Vikings, he plays with
the physicality that Jeff Haffley likes with his cornerbacks. Right, Yeah,
there's the one play he was not happy about. It
looked like he probably got held on it. I remember
watching it as it played out. That side judge was
not calling anything in that game, So what does he
do on the next play? He literally does an illegal
(27:38):
hands of the face and pie face is justin Jefferson
during his jam at the line of scrimmage. It goes
on call too, So I mean there's an edginess that
he plays with. There's a confidence and a swagger that
he plays with. But certainly this is a much different
challenge if he has called upon now one. I also
mention Nate Hobbs was estimated as a limited participant on
Monday as well. What will it all mean, Basil, I
(27:58):
don't know, but the Packers could have him in the
cards as well, which would be really good if you
don't have Nixon, who was estimated as a DMP because
of the next stinger.
Speaker 1 (28:08):
So and even just from a depth standpoint, to have
another option there as well, because because next up would
be Bowl Melting at cornerback, and like hadden't he actually
hasn't played on defense this season. If Hobbs is actually
available on Thursday as another option, even if maybe Hadden
would be would take those snaps if Nixon can't play,
but just having another guy as in the depth equation
(28:29):
would certainly be helpful.
Speaker 2 (28:30):
It's fun talking to Had in the locker room after
the game too, because he mentioned he actually went up
to Xavier McKinney before the game. Obviously he doesn't want
Keshawn Nixon getting hurt, but he told Zaver, He's like,
I'm gonna get my first NFL tackle today. He ended
up getting four of them. I believe it was, but
just predicted it and it happened. And unfortunately when Nixon
went out, he said, I just it was almost instincts.
He's like he saw he was not instantaneously getting up.
(28:51):
He runs out on the field and held his own
And also a tip of the cap to Carryington Valentine,
who has gone from being that next guy up to
once again, like it just seems like it's worked out
every single year he's been in the NFL. The second
half of the season.
Speaker 1 (29:06):
Yeah, there he is number twenty four, is on the rise.
One other game.
Speaker 2 (29:10):
I just wanted to thirty seven.
Speaker 1 (29:11):
Did you catch that?
Speaker 2 (29:12):
I almost said thirty seven, and that was like, well
he is twenty four now right, and then you finished it.
Speaker 1 (29:17):
He's number twenty four. One other game I want to
get your thoughts on. And then we got to go.
So Black Friday, which has become now another NFL tradition,
a game the day after Thanksgiving. It's the Bears at
the Eagles. Now, the Philadelphia Eagles all close games. Have
beaten the Vikings, the Packers, and the Lions. Now this
(29:38):
is their last NFC North opponent. The Eagles get the
Bears in Philadelphia. The Bears are eight and three, sitting
on top of the NFC North. There's gona be a
lot of eyeballs on this game, West and a lot
of people around the NFL knowing that the Bears don't
have that strength of victory in their schedule right in
(30:00):
terms of the teams they've beaten. It's like, okay, here
you are, Chicago, go out, go out and prove it.
And the Eagles are coming off of an absolutely atrocious loss,
blowing a twenty one to nothing lead in Dallas, they
don't score for the last forty minutes of the game
and they lose twenty four to twenty one to the
Cowboys on a walk off field goal by Brandon Aubrey.
(30:22):
This is a big one Bears against the Eagles Black Friday.
It's going to have major implications all across the NFC
in terms of the playoff picture.
Speaker 2 (30:31):
This is the measuring stick game for Chicago. I was
talking as recently as last Thursday about how they haven't
really had like that big quality victory yet, something that
really jumps off the page, that tells you they're not
just a team that's beating who's in front of them,
but someone who can really be trifled with in the NFL.
Much like Detroit, they hung in there, they won a gritty,
close game. At the end, they found a way to
kind of claw themselves forward. But now you're going up
(30:53):
against one of the top teams from not only the
NFC but the National Football League. And on the same token,
a matchup now for the Eagles who have kind of
a gut check be after they came up short. So
very interesting chess match that's going to play out. I
was looking at the schedule for this week, it's very
quizzical to me, like and the Black Friday thing is
(31:14):
not going away. We've also seen the quality of those
games kind of rise up here.
Speaker 1 (31:17):
Oh yeah, over the last year or so, no doubt.
Speaker 2 (31:20):
But it's all on these two games, like these four
games coming up, and it seems like then Sunday night
Monday Night. I can't believe none of those games got
Are they not allowed to flex in week thirteen? I
don't know how that?
Speaker 1 (31:29):
I I yeah, I'm not. I'm not sure.
Speaker 2 (31:31):
Did you look at what this rest of the schedules
like for No.
Speaker 1 (31:33):
I actually didn't look. I've been so focused on just
Thursday and Friday with the three top teams in the
NFC North are all going to be are all going
to have played by the time we're eating our turkey
leftovers on Friday eveningight.
Speaker 2 (31:44):
So well, after all the trip to fan has worked
its way through your system. Over the weekend, you'll get
to watch the Denver Broncos take on the Washington Commanders
in Sunday Night Football and then Monday Night football. If
you have any turkey sandwiches left, you might wane have
already have eaten them. Right before this game, so you
fall asleep. The York Giants and the New England Patriots
and a battle of two and ten versus ten and
two teams. Ouch, So all the eggs are in the
(32:08):
first two day baskets. Yeah, it seems like with the
Thursday Night, the Thursday games for Thanksgiving and then obviously
the Black Friday games.
Speaker 1 (32:15):
And from the Packers' perspective, by the time Friday Night
rolls around, the Packers could be anywhere from third place
in the NFC North all the way to first place
in the NFC North. That could fall anywhere in there.
So we'll see what happens.
Speaker 2 (32:26):
At the end of the weekend. When you talk about
the entire NFC top to bottom, you could be anywhere.
Speaker 1 (32:32):
Yeah, a lot of things could be shifting around. We're
getting to that time of year. But we will call
it a wrap on this edition of Packers Unscripted' be
sure to continue following all of our coverage of the team,
and we will have all of the coverage of the
Thanksgiving Day game from Detroit on Packers dot com for
wes I am Mike. Thank you for tuning in. Everybody,
Happy Thanksgiving and we will see you next time time
Hi, everybody. Welcome to another edition of Packers Unscripted from
Packers dot Com. I am Mike Spofford, joined by the
one and only Wes Hodkowitz. We're coming to you here
from our studios at Lambefield, Wes for another double duty
episode because we only have one show this week. No,
not your fault this time, only one show this week
because of the Thursday game in Detroit on Thanksgiving. So
(00:29):
we will review the Vikings, we will preview the Lions,
and try to cram it all into one show. Twenty
three to six was the final score at lambeau Field
over Minnesota, a solid effort in all three phases by
the Packers. To me, this game came down to three things.
Emmanuel Wilson's breakout game, a massive turnover on special teams
(00:54):
that altered the course of the football game, and then
an absolutely smothering defense by the Packers in the second half.
So I'll let you take whichever one of those you
want to start with.
Speaker 2 (01:05):
You know what I want to start with, the Emmanuel
Wilson story, if I may, sure. I know everybody likes
to talk offense. Offense sometimes gets a little bit too
many eyeballs. On it. But this was a very precarious
position Green Bay was put into because Josh Jacobs, by
all intentsive purposes, probably was healthy enough to play in
this game. But you got the Detroit Lions on Thanksgiving
(01:25):
at Ford Field on that tour four days later. Do
you really want to rush him back after the bone
bruise and then have him play two punishing football games
in a matter of four days. They decide to roll
the dice with Emmanuel Wilson and also Chris Brooks and
use those two in a platoon to sort of navigate
this matchup. Boy golly, did Emmanuel Wilson prove the Green
(01:46):
Bay Packers correct? Yep. His first NFL start ends up
becoming the first one hundred yard rushing performance individually by
the Packers this season. He plows into the end zone
for two touchdowns and in doing so, becomes the first
Packers player and only the second one since the merger
to have one hundred plus rushing yards two plus touchdowns
in their first career start since Sam con Gato in
(02:09):
two thousand and five. And I felt like this actually
was that type of performance. Emmanuel didn't break like a
huge explosive run, but he continually pushed the pile. You
know what really impresses me about him. This has nothing
to do with him being an undrafted free agent, nothing
about him being a former Division two star at Fort
Valley State. It's the fact that he has a really
(02:30):
explosive burst, but he still maintains the power to really
launch himself into linebackers. Yeah, that's a unique combination. A
lot of running backs don't have it, and in this
particular game, the Packers rode him to victory. With all
the mistakes that the Minnesota Vikings were playing, the Packers
were able to play it safe and rest A lot
of guys be able to navigate this type of matchup
(02:51):
by establishing the run and running the ball continually.
Speaker 1 (02:54):
Yeah. What I really liked seeing from Wilson in his
first NFL start and first really truly extended action we
got to see was the combination that he does bring
in terms of both his vision and his power. There
were some tough runs where he had to make a
quick decision with his feet at the line of scrimmage
to you know, to get what was there, even if
(03:16):
it was only just three or four yards, but to
get what was there to move the chains to put
the offense in a good position, and there were other
times where he kept the pads down and he powered through.
I mean, that first touchdown run he had at the
goal line was really impressive. The second effort that he
showed there, and the reason you're allowed to have a
(03:37):
second effort is because you have the pad level and
the balance to absorb the first hit and stay on
your feet to allow yourself to power across the goal line.
I really liked what Wilson did there. As far as
how this game unfolded, the Vikings just weren't doing much
on offense. The defense got a huge stop in the
(03:59):
red zone. Minnesota was running the ball with Jones and
Mason pushing the ball down the field on the ground,
and it came down to a third and one in
the red zone. They got a little tricky with TJ.
Hockinson coming across taking the direct snap. The Packers get
the stuff there. They go forward on fourth and one,
they hand it off to Jordan Mason and he gets
(04:21):
stuffed as well. So the turnover on downs and the
red zone was big. Other than that, all the Vikings
were able to do was kick two very long field
goals fifty two and fifty nine yards, so they were
never really threatening the end zone on those other two possessions.
But the game goes into halftime with just a ten
to six lead. Packers were getting the ball coming out
(04:43):
at the start of the second half, and you're thinking, Okay,
you go down and get a score, you go up,
you know, a couple of scores, and then let's see
what happens. Well, the Packers' offense got across the fifty
but then had a penalty stalled out. The Packers have
to punt, and then that's when the game changed because
zan and made probably what would have to be considered
the play of the year on special teams so far
(05:05):
for the Packers in twenty twenty five, Miles Price, the
young punt returner and dangerous punt returner for the Vikings,
the ball is sailing over his head inside the ten
yard line, so he gives up on it and says, okay,
I need to go block somebody so that the Packers
can't down the ball close to the goal line, and
(05:25):
in the midst of engaging Zane Anderson, Daniel Wheelan's backspin
end over end the ausse style punt comes back and
Anderson sees the ball, Price doesn't. Anderson shoves Price into
the ball, the contact makes it live. He falls on it,
so the Packers end up getting the touchdown a couple
of plays later. That was sort of the start of
(05:46):
the second half touchdown and when this game got to
seventeen to six, it was pretty much Curtains at that point.
Speaker 2 (05:52):
An excellent overview of this, and I want to look
at it from two different perspectives, if I may, am
I allowed to do that? Sure? The first one is,
I know there was a lot of converse say earlier
this season about the decision to have Romeo Dobbs inside
the twenty. These are the reasons why a lot of
times you want to have a veteran player at least
somebody that knows the game situation. I'm not saying anything
about Price here, I'm saying the strictly in terms of
the Packers strategy. Price, by staying close to the ball
(06:15):
inside the ten yard line, made himself susceptible to being
pushed into it, which is Zane was telling us after
the game, is exactly what he was trying to do.
Is one of the flyers on that play he saw
where the ball was and it was such a quirky bounce.
I mean, it was just an odd bounce where it
just kind of pushed right to the right. It was
almost like it went on like a trajectory, like it
hit like an invisible wall and just darted towards the sidelines.
(06:37):
It was great by Daniel, as he'd been saying he's
been looking for that type of good bounce all season
because at some point there is just a little bit
of luck involved there. But the fact is, like a
lot of times you'll see Rome when he's back there,
he will evade or look for a block or something
like that, and then just whatever happens inside the twenty happens.
But you're not leaving yourself open to a muff punt
by running into it. Anderson drives him into the ball
(07:01):
and was able to jump right on it, and it
was hilarious listen to him talk about it afterwards because
he's like that pile felt like forever as the referees
are trying to get it going in there, and he.
Speaker 1 (07:11):
Was on top of it right away, was on the
bottom of it, but the referees couldn't sort it out,
and Anderson had the ball the whole time.
Speaker 2 (07:17):
And Anderson said, I mean there was guys from his
team saying, Zaane, do you got it? Do you got it?
There's guys from the Vikings that that are jousting for it,
are asking price if he had gotten it. And then
finally it comes out and here he is at the
five yard line. Two plays later, boom boom, Emmanuel Wilson
plows that thing into the end zone for a score
and really the game breaking, kind of backbreaking score in
(07:37):
this one. What I love about it is there was
a time probably about ten years ago, and I think
this is one of the big, really nice shifts that
Green Bay has made under the Brian Goodkinz era, where
they've dedicated themselves to developing players who might not necessarily
contribute on defense or offense. But our core special teams guy,
Zane Anderson epitomizes that he was here for now in
this third season, but has very rarely played on defense
(08:00):
unless really in a case of emergency, and he's filled
in well there when he has. But the fact is
they have him as a core four guy, and for
so long he was kind of a pass personal protector
on punt coverage and then really since Corey Ballentine left.
They pushed him outside to be opposite of being Bo
Melton now and he's been money And as Daniel said afterwards,
they call him white Lightning. And he got down there
(08:22):
in a hurry and listening to Wheeland wieland will never
be one to really give himself any credit. He talked
about having the benefit of having two of the fastest
flyers in the National Football League as disposal, but for
him also to have three punts inside the twenty in
this game a field position maestro. That's why Green Bay
was able to win this game. They made JJ McCarthy
go the long way and he could.
Speaker 1 (08:43):
Not do it. Yeah, absolutely, I mean this was This
was a Viking special teams unit as a whole that
is one of the best in the league. And Rich
Bisaccia talked about that last Thursday before the game. And
when you see Will record makes field goals of fifty
two and fifty nine yards two times on punts the
Packers got pinned inside the ten yard line. This and
(09:05):
Miles Price has had some you know, dynamic returns this year. This,
this is a Viking special teams unit that is at
the top of the league. And because of the turnover,
the play by Anderson, the Packers were actually able to
win the special team's battle against one of the one
of the best units out there. So that was huge.
And then just the fact that the Packers got the
(09:26):
eleven point lead, a multi score lead. It's seventeen to six,
And as I wrote in my Rapid Reaction editorial after
the game, Hey, Jeff Hafley called his shot man. He
stood there at the podium on Thursday. He was absorbing
all the questions about where's the pass rush, like what's happening?
And he said, hey, look here. You know, the Packers
(09:46):
as a whole, as an entire team, have not been
able to play the type of game they want to play.
The Packers had not had a multi scored lead since Pittsburgh.
And what did we see in Pittsburgh with a multi
score lead. Micah Parson slammed the door right. The Packers
finally get another multi score lead after the turnover and
the touchdown, and then the pass rush was just unleashed
(10:08):
and JJ McCarthy was overmatched. The Vikings offensive line was overmatched.
Parsons gets two sacks, Devonte Wyatt gets two sacks. Two
of those almost result in safeties twice. The Vikings are
punning essentially eleven yard punt snaps from the one to
the back of the end zone when normally a punt
snap is fifteen yards. They're punning with short snaps at
(10:30):
the back of the end zone twice in the game.
The Packers take advantage of the field position, add a
couple of field goals get it to a three score game.
And as you had said, you know, took the air
out of the ball and all that, and just got
the clock to zero and got to the finish line
in this one. But this just shows you what the Packers'
defense is capable of when they have a multi score
(10:54):
lead to protect and the opponent has to throw the
ball because you can't just try to grind out yards
on the ground and you know, risk spending seven, eight,
nine minutes on the clock to get one score when
you're down by a couple of scores. That's where the
Vikings found themselves and they were overmatched.
Speaker 2 (11:11):
One thing I loved about this matchup with what Green
Bay did defensively, was it was the Micah Parson show again.
He went over ten sacks on the season with his
two sacks three quarterback hits numerous pressures, some of which
helped lead to those Davante Wyatt opportunities for sure, but
it came in all shapes, all forms, all sizes. You
(11:31):
saw Warren Brinson, the Packers' rookie sixth round pick, have
five pressures in this game and his first career sack,
sharing that with ISAAMH McDuffie in a really interesting looking front.
I don't know if we still had one what you
might have missed. My goodness, man, the way to break
that down where you got DeVante Wyatt lined up as
a five tech edge, seven tech you know edge, and
(11:52):
then you have you know, all these plethora of defenders
lined up every where. It was just everything was in
fluid sinc motion, and Warren Brinson never stopped moving his feet.
He just kept charging through the middle and he ends
up driving up some of that contact there with JJ
McCarthy and Isaiah McDuffie also on a blitz you know,
(12:16):
was able to finish that play. It just it was
so beautiful to watch. And for Green Bay, they were leaking,
you know, for rushing yards in the first half, eighty
six yards between Mason and Jones. Those guys had a
combined negative three yards in the second half. The only
rushing yards the Vikings had were off of JJ McCarthy scrambles.
Now you could say part of that being okay, well,
the Vikings kind of got away from what they were
(12:37):
doing well, But realistically, once they fell into seventeen to six,
then they were having to sort of get out of
their game plan, which I think honestly was, let's just
try to run those two as much as we can.
See what kind of opportunities happened with the passing game
from there. When JJ McCarthy had to drop back and
he got into third and long situations, it did not
end well for Minnesota. And what I really liked about
the defensive performance three straight three and out after the turnover,
(13:02):
the giveaway, and then it was followed by two interceptions,
McDuffie's first career interception and then Evan Williams putting the
icing on the cake. You wrote about it on Saturday.
Micah Parsons has been the closer for this defense and
he was again. But my goodness, the setup men, the holds, everything, Yeah,
I mean, it was incredible to watch it all come together.
Speaker 1 (13:20):
Yeah, it was a heck of a catch by McDuffie
on his interception. I'll give him credit for that as well.
And Rashan Gary coming around on the edge and getting
a little piece of the ball as McCarthy was throwing that,
so that threw off the whole trajectory of the pass
and McDuffie was able to make the diving catch Evan
Williams interception later on the bad overthrow. Unfortunately, find we
found out on Monday. JJ McCarthy was probably concussed at
(13:45):
the time he threw the second interception. If you look
at the film the two plays leading up to the
second interception, he scrambled and took a hit when he
went down, and then he was also knocked down in
the pocket when he threw a pass on the next play.
Those plays did not look good for for JJ McCarthy
and is probably where he sustained the head injury and
(14:06):
then he threw the second interception. But the Packers defense
just completely overwhelmed Minnesota in the second half, and it
speaks to when we talk about having the multi score lead,
putting the other team in that position, it speaks to
how big the red zone stop was in the first half,
because because if the Vikings get if the Vikings even
(14:29):
if they decide to just kick the field goal there.
I think Kevin O'Connell decided he went for it there
on fourth and one because even though he had failed
on third and one, he went forward on fourth and
one because he decided, well, we're probably not going to
beat the Packers that lambeau Field by kicking field goals, right,
which is you know which you know, you can understand that,
you can understand that decision, and the Packers getting the
(14:50):
stop there allowing no points on that drive. That's what's
set up being able to then have the bigger lead
in the second half and go from there. We do
need to turn the page to the line. If you're
ready to do that. The game is coming up here
very quickly. But before we do that, we'll pay some
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Wisconsin dot com slash Wonders. Thanksgiving Day in Detroit, West
We've done it multiple times in the past. I haven't.
I've lost count now of how many times I've covered
Packers Lions in Detroit on thanks.
Speaker 2 (16:07):
My third actually okay, I think it was thirteen two
years ago, and now this one.
Speaker 1 (16:11):
Okay, and I've been at home, and I believe I
covered three before that, oh seven, nine and eleven, So
so yeah, this is would be up to seven? Would
this be my seventh? Yeah?
Speaker 2 (16:22):
Wow?
Speaker 1 (16:23):
To ask you and then and it will be the
third consecutive Thanksgiving game for the Packers, having played at
Detroit two years ago and then hosting a Thanksgiving game
last year. But here's where we are, West The Packers
are seven to three and one, just behind the eight
and three Chicago Bears in the NFC North. The Detroit
Lions are right on the Packers heels at seven and four.
(16:46):
They are coming off of a wild kind of shootout
type overtime win against the New York Giants. The Lions
tied the game at the right at the end of
regulation with a long fifty eight to fifty nine yard
field goal by Baits, and then Jamiir Gibbs first play
from scrimmage in overtime goes sixty nine yards for a touchdown,
(17:06):
and that's what wins it for Detroit. The Lions have
been you know, they've been up and down this season.
There's no there's no two ways about it. This is
a team that only lost two games all regular season
last year. They've lost four and they were on the
verge of losing number five on Sunday. But this is
kind of their bread and butter, right. They know they
(17:27):
play at home on Thanksgiving every year. They know the
stakes of the game. The crowd is going to be there.
This is not one of those road games where you're
gonna see a lot of Green Bay Packer fans in
the stands because this is the game the Detroit fans
always come out for big challenge here for green Bay.
Speaker 2 (17:45):
I'll be honest with you, Mike, I really have had
a hard time making sense of the Lions this season.
As much as fans won to talk about green Bay
and sort of the ups and downs and the inconsistency,
I think has been the big buzzword. The Lions have
kind of been on that similar track specifically offensively. You know,
There's been times where Jamiir Gibbs and this running game
(18:06):
look absolutely unstoppable. There's been times where I thought Jared
Goff has played like an MVP. Last week a'm and
Ross Saint Brown was incredible. But then you go back
two weeks ago against Philadelphia, it looked like offensively they
couldn't do a single thing right right and Goff completed
was like fourteen to thirty four passes something like that.
Speaker 1 (18:27):
It was well below fifty the game.
Speaker 2 (18:30):
They've been done a little bit of everything. But you
know what that is, Mike. It makes them dangerous and
they're super talented. They play well at home. I will
be interested to see how they handle back to back
games on their turf in that field. I mean, that
is a punishing thing to do, regardless of playing at
Ford Field, just in general, playing twice in four days
on a turf field is not easy. So we'll be
(18:50):
interested to see how they look. But I mean they
they're right up there. And if the Green Bay Packers
are going to make a claim this season to be
a Super Bowl contender, to be one of the NFL,
he's a lead. These are the type of matchups you
have to go through. They took care of business against
the Vikings, and they did so in a handling manner,
something that we all talked about. We wanted to see
them sort of give it, just dominate another team, right,
(19:13):
not have it down to the final minute, final two
minutes of a game, really have this thing in hand.
They did that against Minnesota. Well, now you're going to
be facing a team that is looking more complete, but
at the same time also had to go through a gritty,
down to the wire game with the Giants, just like
the Packers did. So just very interested to watch this one.
It's going to be really fascinating.
Speaker 1 (19:32):
Yeah, and you mentioned the inconsistencies on offense they've gone
through the transition. They lose Ben Johnson obviously, their offensive
coordinator goes to coach the Bears. John Morton takes over
as offensive coordinator. A few weeks ago, Dan Campbell takes
the play calling from Morton, and he's the one calling
the plays the head coach now on offense. There's been
some ups and downs on the defense though as well,
(19:52):
because when you look at I mean, the Lions defense
was really, really tough against the Philadelphia Eagles in Philadelphia,
a tough place to play. The Lions were not able
to win that game, but their defense looked incredibly stout.
Then they come back seven days later, they're playing at
home against a two win Giants team and they give
(20:13):
up five hundred plus yards. They're on the field for
seventy seven plays, which could definitely factor into this one.
On a short week, the Lions defense had seventy seven
snaps on Sunday, the Packers defense only had forty four,
So that'll be something to watch this Thursday's game unfolds.
But yet at the same time, you go, well, but
this is a defense that has Aiden Hutchinson and it
(20:34):
has you know, Kirby Joseph, and I know Kirby Joseph's
on the injury report, right now, but you know, you know,
the talent is there. They got a Lee McNeil back
in the middle of that defensive line, which is which
is a big piece for them. So I'm just gonna
throw it out to you right away. Keys to victory
here for green Bay. What do the Packers have to
do to come out on top?
Speaker 2 (20:55):
Well, they have to stop Gibbs in no disrespect, I
mean David Montgomery too, although has been more of the
home run threat this season. And I feel like, if
you go back to that first matchup, what did Green
Bay do really well at its play, at their play
you know its places. It dominated the trenches, right, the
Packers defensive front imposed their will against the Lions. Afterwards,
(21:16):
Micah Parson's talking about that matchup with Penny Sool how
he's like, you're gonna be my new rival, right, just
Likewayne Johnson was his rival with the Eagles, and sure
he had a really good game against School. So I
think being able to contain Gibbs in the home run
threat he provides that is the It's kind of similar
to what the thing is with Saquon right with with
(21:38):
the Eagles, It's like he can beat you on one
or two plays and that could be the game. Yep,
Gibbs has that same factor because if you allow him
to make this a third and short game, that's when
amanas Saint Brown becomes really dangerous. Now they don't have
Samula Porter, they lose one of their big, you know,
needle movers there at tight end due to the back surgery.
Speaker 1 (21:56):
Yeah, both of these teams losing big, big weapons at
tight end were huge parts of their offense, with Laporte
on one side, Tucker Craft on the other.
Speaker 2 (22:04):
Yeah, and the Lions defense. Somebody had asked me about
this an inbox and what I thought about him, and
the thing is is that, yeah, they've been inconsistent at times,
but statistically they are better than they were last year.
The difference is that the bench doesn't go very deep.
They kind of are what they are as far as
their starters are concerned, and if they're all out there
and they're all healthy, probably one of the better units
in the league. I think Muhammad is a really intriguing
(22:27):
pass rusher. He's been a nice compliment this season to Hutchinson,
and I love their linebackers with Derek Barnes and obviously
Jack Campbell, a couple of years back, Campbell and Gibbs.
That was two draft picks that kind of raised everybody's
eyebrows and they've been sort of the cornerstones for what
Detroit's been building here. So it's not going to be
an easy matchup. But if Green Bay can manage to
win the ground game, especially, that would help. If Josh
(22:48):
Jacobs is back in the fold, that is I feel
like the most true path to victory in this one.
Speaker 1 (22:53):
Yeah, the one thing I would say that's the caveat
to the Giants and what they did offensively with the
five hundred plus yards and all the points that they
put up against the Lions. They did run two trick
plays for touchdowns, and the Lions clearly just weren't prepared
for Jamis Winston and the Giants to come out with
all the trickeration and whatnot in order, and they were
able to score twice. I mean, I don't know if
(23:14):
I've ever seen a team score twice on trick plays
and then lose the game. But the Giants managed to,
and then their defensive coordinator got fired on Monday, So
there's that. I don't want to make this, you know me.
I don't like to oversimplify things. But in this day
and age of the you know of the sound bites
and the quippie quotes. To me, this game comes down
(23:37):
to tackle Jumior Gibbs and Blockaden Hutchinson. Those are the
two guys who can give you a long day on
either side of the ball, right and if the Packers
can somehow just contain the impact that those two guys
are going to have. I really like Green Bay's chances
in this game. But as you said, with Gibbs, you
know he's Jamiir. Gibbs has become as big a home
(24:02):
run hitter as there is at running back in the
NFL right now. He's up there with Barkley, He's up
there with Jonathan Taylor of the Colts, a guy who
can take at the distance at any moment. In baseball,
you can intentionally walk the home run hitter when you
want to and not have to deal with him for
a couple of more innings. It doesn't work that way
with running backs in the NFL. You have to tackle him,
(24:23):
you have to contain him. He's going to get the ball,
He's going to get it a lot. He has really
taken over in terms of the touches the one two
punch with David Montgomery. Montgomery's still doing his thing, but
he doesn't get the ball as often as Gibbs does.
Gibbs is a much, much bigger part of this offense now.
And on the other side, the Packers completely neutralized Hutchinson
(24:43):
in Week one, but that was his first game back
from the long layoff and the really bad injury that
he had last season. Hutchinson is looking a lot more
like the Aiden Hutchinson that was on his way to
potentially Defensive Player of the Year last year before he
got hurt, and the Packers they have to new him
again the best they can.
Speaker 2 (25:01):
Yeah, one thing I want to add too that I
think it really bodes well for Green Bay. They have
to have a better performance against the run. But one
thing that's going to be very different than this game
than it was against Minnesota is you're going to see
more base defense. It's just the way you have to
match up with the lines, especially on early downs. And
by and large, the Packers rested. When you look at
their base I mean Colby Wooden, his snap counts were down.
(25:24):
Nazir Stacko has played three snaps. You look at you know,
kings Lanningbari. He was able to kind of have some
time off. They should be relatively fresh. In addition to
the fact that again we'll have to see what all means,
the Packers estimated that Kway Walker would have been returning
in limited capacity if they would have practiced on Monday.
That's big after he didn't practice at all last week,
potentially having him available and if not, then you'll go
(25:45):
with Isaiah McDuffie. But that you go back to that
first game, Mike. It's the way they played in the
defensive front, and it's the way the linebackers attacked the
way that Walker, Cooper and when he was out there,
Isaiah McDuffie got after gibbson Montgomery, both of those guys
being neutralized. I want to say they kept him under
a hundred yards despite having somewhere around thirty carries. You
(26:07):
do that again, you're gonna have a chance.
Speaker 1 (26:08):
Yeah, And you really like the way the Packers' linebackers
are playing that whole group of four. I know Walker
didn't play in this last game, but Kway Walker, Edrin Cooper,
ISAA mcduffee, Tyron Hopper when he gets in there. What
that entire group is doing has been really impressive. The
other thing we need to mention on defense, Keishawn Nixon
exited the Minnesota game with a shoulder stinger. Did not
(26:29):
return to the game was estimated as they did not
participate as far as the injury report the practice estimation.
On Monday, Kamal Haddn't stepped in got his first defensive
action of the season. Young guy who was a six
round draft pick of the Kansas City Chiefs last year.
He didn't make it in Kansas City. The Packers signed
him to the practice squad. Spent all year last year
(26:50):
on the practice squad, maybe got one or two elevations
for game day, but then he's been on the active
roster this year. He made the team coming out of
training camp, but he hasn't played and suddenly he got
thrown into action and he very well could have a
big role in this game against the Lions. It was
good to see what he was able to do and
sort of getting his feet wet against the Vikings. This
(27:11):
becomes a whole nother challenge now playing the Detroit Lions
on the road on Thanksgiving in a much much bigger game.
Speaker 2 (27:17):
You can see why and it's such a small sample size,
but watching a little bit of his clips in his
film from that game against the Vikings, he plays with
the physicality that Jeff Haffley likes with his cornerbacks. Right, Yeah,
there's the one play he was not happy about. It
looked like he probably got held on it. I remember
watching it as it played out. That side judge was
not calling anything in that game, So what does he
do on the next play? He literally does an illegal
(27:38):
hands of the face and pie face is justin Jefferson
during his jam at the line of scrimmage. It goes
on call too, So I mean there's an edginess that
he plays with. There's a confidence and a swagger that
he plays with. But certainly this is a much different
challenge if he has called upon now one. I also
mention Nate Hobbs was estimated as a limited participant on
Monday as well. What will it all mean, Basil, I
(27:58):
don't know, but the Packers could have him in the
cards as well, which would be really good if you
don't have Nixon, who was estimated as a DMP because
of the next stinger.
Speaker 1 (28:08):
So and even just from a depth standpoint, to have
another option there as well, because because next up would
be Bowl Melting at cornerback, and like hadden't he actually
hasn't played on defense this season. If Hobbs is actually
available on Thursday as another option, even if maybe Hadden
would be would take those snaps if Nixon can't play,
but just having another guy as in the depth equation
(28:29):
would certainly be helpful.
Speaker 2 (28:30):
It's fun talking to Had in the locker room after
the game too, because he mentioned he actually went up
to Xavier McKinney before the game. Obviously he doesn't want
Keshawn Nixon getting hurt, but he told Zaver, He's like,
I'm gonna get my first NFL tackle today. He ended
up getting four of them. I believe it was, but
just predicted it and it happened. And unfortunately when Nixon
went out, he said, I just it was almost instincts.
He's like he saw he was not instantaneously getting up.
(28:51):
He runs out on the field and held his own
And also a tip of the cap to Carryington Valentine,
who has gone from being that next guy up to
once again, like it just seems like it's worked out
every single year he's been in the NFL. The second
half of the season.
Speaker 1 (29:06):
Yeah, there he is number twenty four, is on the rise.
One other game.
Speaker 2 (29:10):
I just wanted to thirty seven.
Speaker 1 (29:11):
Did you catch that?
Speaker 2 (29:12):
I almost said thirty seven, and that was like, well
he is twenty four now right, and then you finished it.
Speaker 1 (29:17):
He's number twenty four. One other game I want to
get your thoughts on. And then we got to go.
So Black Friday, which has become now another NFL tradition,
a game the day after Thanksgiving. It's the Bears at
the Eagles. Now, the Philadelphia Eagles all close games. Have
beaten the Vikings, the Packers, and the Lions. Now this
(29:38):
is their last NFC North opponent. The Eagles get the
Bears in Philadelphia. The Bears are eight and three, sitting
on top of the NFC North. There's gona be a
lot of eyeballs on this game, West and a lot
of people around the NFL knowing that the Bears don't
have that strength of victory in their schedule right in
(30:00):
terms of the teams they've beaten. It's like, okay, here
you are, Chicago, go out, go out and prove it.
And the Eagles are coming off of an absolutely atrocious loss,
blowing a twenty one to nothing lead in Dallas, they
don't score for the last forty minutes of the game
and they lose twenty four to twenty one to the
Cowboys on a walk off field goal by Brandon Aubrey.
(30:22):
This is a big one Bears against the Eagles Black Friday.
It's going to have major implications all across the NFC
in terms of the playoff picture.
Speaker 2 (30:31):
This is the measuring stick game for Chicago. I was
talking as recently as last Thursday about how they haven't
really had like that big quality victory yet, something that
really jumps off the page, that tells you they're not
just a team that's beating who's in front of them,
but someone who can really be trifled with in the NFL.
Much like Detroit, they hung in there, they won a gritty,
close game. At the end, they found a way to
kind of claw themselves forward. But now you're going up
(30:53):
against one of the top teams from not only the
NFC but the National Football League. And on the same token,
a matchup now for the Eagles who have kind of
a gut check be after they came up short. So
very interesting chess match that's going to play out. I
was looking at the schedule for this week, it's very
quizzical to me, like and the Black Friday thing is
(31:14):
not going away. We've also seen the quality of those
games kind of rise up here.
Speaker 1 (31:17):
Oh yeah, over the last year or so, no doubt.
Speaker 2 (31:20):
But it's all on these two games, like these four
games coming up, and it seems like then Sunday night
Monday Night. I can't believe none of those games got
Are they not allowed to flex in week thirteen? I
don't know how that?
Speaker 1 (31:29):
I I yeah, I'm not. I'm not sure.
Speaker 2 (31:31):
Did you look at what this rest of the schedules
like for No.
Speaker 1 (31:33):
I actually didn't look. I've been so focused on just
Thursday and Friday with the three top teams in the
NFC North are all going to be are all going
to have played by the time we're eating our turkey
leftovers on Friday eveningight.
Speaker 2 (31:44):
So well, after all the trip to fan has worked
its way through your system. Over the weekend, you'll get
to watch the Denver Broncos take on the Washington Commanders
in Sunday Night Football and then Monday Night football. If
you have any turkey sandwiches left, you might wane have
already have eaten them. Right before this game, so you
fall asleep. The York Giants and the New England Patriots
and a battle of two and ten versus ten and
two teams. Ouch, So all the eggs are in the
(32:08):
first two day baskets. Yeah, it seems like with the
Thursday Night, the Thursday games for Thanksgiving and then obviously
the Black Friday games.
Speaker 1 (32:15):
And from the Packers' perspective, by the time Friday Night
rolls around, the Packers could be anywhere from third place
in the NFC North all the way to first place
in the NFC North. That could fall anywhere in there.
So we'll see what happens.
Speaker 2 (32:26):
At the end of the weekend. When you talk about
the entire NFC top to bottom, you could be anywhere.
Speaker 1 (32:32):
Yeah, a lot of things could be shifting around. We're
getting to that time of year. But we will call
it a wrap on this edition of Packers Unscripted' be
sure to continue following all of our coverage of the team,
and we will have all of the coverage of the
Thanksgiving Day game from Detroit on Packers dot com for
wes I am Mike. Thank you for tuning in. Everybody,
Happy Thanksgiving and we will see you next time time
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