December 2, 2025 • 28 mins
Mike and Wes review the Thanksgiving victory over the Lions, including WR Dontayvion Wicks’ breakout performance (3:00), the crucial fourth downs (7:07), DL Micah Parsons’ big game (8:56) and DL Devonte Wyatt’s season-ending injury (15:26). They also look at the NFC North and conference races with five games left (19:56).
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:06):
Hi, everybody. Welcome to another edition of Packers Unscripted from
Packers dot Com. I am Mike Spoffer, joined as always
by my trusted colleague Wes Hodkotz. We're coming to you
hear from our studios at lambeau Field. Both of us
a bit under the weather, I'm afraid to say so.
Please pardon our voices. We're both trying to get through
the show with cough drops in our mouths. Yes, yeah,
(00:28):
where we are out of sick days and we both
caught something over in Detroit. But other than that, it
was a pretty good trip to Detroit for the Packers
West as Green Bay emerges with a thirty one to
twenty four Thanksgiving Day victory over the Lions. And when
you start the discussion of this game, quite simply, it
comes down to fourth down.
Speaker 2 (00:49):
It does. I mean, unbelievable. I've never seen anything quite
like this in terms of the green Bay Packers had
four fourth downs. It's not like they just had like okay,
kept going for it. All of them were extremely consequential
to not only winning this game, but really setting the tone.
I felt like for it, right, I mean, you know,
when you face the Detroit Lions, you're gonna face an
(01:12):
ultra aggressive offense that every single down you have to
be prepared that they're gonna be going for it right
no matter where you are on the field. And to
the credit of Matt Lafleur, because again, you live by
the sword, you die by the sword. You're either the
smartest person in the room where everybody's questioning you the
floor stood by his convictions, and at numerous times during
that game, particularly in fourth and goal, fourth down inside
(01:36):
the red zone, he put his foot firmly on the
glick gas. He trusted Jordan Love to make the throws.
He trusted the Packers' receivers to come through for him.
So it shouldn't have been any surprise whatsoever that when
the game is on the line late, the Packers first
throw it on third down and then they go up
to line of scrimmage and call time out after letting
(01:56):
the clock run down. You and I maybe you I
don't know what you thought. I can tell you what
I thought because I told you this. I'm like, okay,
well this makes sense. You call the time out. Now,
you go back up to the line of scrimmage. You
try to draw them off sides and if not, you
take the delay a game and you let Daniel wheel
and punt it.
Speaker 1 (02:11):
That's exactly what I thought was going to happen. I thought,
because they come back out after the timeout and it's like, okay,
you can't call time out again. You can't call back
to back timeouts without running a play, so calling another
timeout was not an option. I thought, Okay, now they're
really going to try to convince the Lions that they're
running a play here. They're going to try to draw
them off sides. And if you lose five yards on
(02:33):
a delay a game at that spot in the field,
not a big deal. And wheeling comes out in punts.
And I think at the moment the snap occurred, you
and I are sitting next to each other in the
press box, and I think in unison we both said
holy cow, except we didn't say cow. I mean they
snapped it. They snapped the ball. It was like, my goodness.
(02:56):
And but Dontavian Wicks caps probably the best game of
his career in his three year career so far in
Green Bay. He caps it with the leaping catch, one
shoe left on the field and all to convert the
fourth down that allows the Packers to run out the clock.
(03:18):
It was just it's really interesting, especially in such juxtaposition
to the last trip to Detroit, which was last year
on the Thursday night after Thanksgiving, when the Lions got
a pair of touchdowns on fourth downs and then at
the end of the game they're in field goal range
to take the lead, but then Dan Campbell says, we're
(03:40):
gonna go for it on fourth down to get a
first down, to run the clock all the way down
and then kick the walk off field goal for the win.
And that's how the Lions ended up winning that one.
The Packers end up running the clock out this time
on the fourth down. But hats off to Dontavian Wicks.
This young man has been through a lot over the
(04:01):
last season and a half and he really stepped up
big on a national stage.
Speaker 2 (04:06):
What is so incredible as we're talking to him in
the locker room afterwards, and you've been around him enough,
I think fans, if you've watched his interviews enough, Dante,
they have so many of these guys, right, they're just
the same person over and over and over again. Dantavian Wicks,
and he had some drops last year. The way he
handles himself. The way he speaks, the way he talks,
(04:26):
it's the same cadence, nothing, no different mannerisms, no different
facial expressions. He's just so steadfast in his convictions that
he's going to be able to make these plays. And
he said when he stepped to the line of scrimmage
with where he was, he had a pretty good feeling
that the ball was going to be coming to him
because he was gonna be the first guy coming across
Jordan Love's face. He got that step on Brian branch Love,
(04:49):
the other hero of this play. Yeah, even though the
Packers were trying to maybe catch Detroit off guard, they
end up getting a really good push up the middle.
Love has to make a throw off his back foot
and throws it a little bit high, but gets it
in the vicinity of where Wis is and Wix plucks
the thing to be able to come down with it.
(05:09):
In that instance, I think it just showed the growth
and maturation of a player because very easily, I mean,
that is a strong hands catch with a player bearing
down on you. And I don't want to go blow
for blow at the entire game with how it played out,
but you look at you talk about this being the
best game of his career. It's not just in the numbers,
it's just in the visuals. Right the twenty two yard touchdown,
(05:29):
which also was on a fourth down, he's dragging his
feet in the corner of the end zone. He's in
really good coverage and he's making a play in which
if he bobbles that ball at all, it's going to
be ruled in completion and a turnover on down, a
turnover on downs. But to me, the most impressive catch
of the entire game was the thirty yard or on
(05:50):
the scene where he has Thomas Harper darting in at
him from the safety position and he'sless. Jordan Love puts
a tremendous ball on him and he catches that pass
and it sets up yet another scoring drive. The Packers
don't have Tucker Kraft right now the running game. When
(06:10):
you look at Josh Jacobs, he was banged up in
this game going in. He ended up in the medical
ten for a time. He came back to the game.
This was a matchup where the Packers had to rely
on their receivers, and boy golly, did Dantavian Wicks come
up in a big way.
Speaker 1 (06:23):
Yeah, and you just saw, and I kept leaning over
to you in the press box and saying it over
and over again. Throughout the course of the game. You
could see not only the trust that Jordan Love has
in his receivers, but when Jordan Love got up to
the line of scrimmage and saw single coverage on the
outside by the Lions, he was determined to make the
(06:44):
Lions pay for saying we're gonna guard your receivers one
on one. And yeah, not every ball was a completion,
but the number of times that Love just attacked with
those boundary throws against one on one coverage, And of
course the biggest one in terms of yardage was the
fifty one yard touchdown to Christian Watson down the field,
(07:04):
which occurred right after the defense gets the fourth down
stop right near midfield. There's actually both a third and
short and a fourth and short stop in holding up
Jamiir Gibbs there at the line of scrimmage, and then
the Packers respond to that fourth down stop offensively. The
(07:24):
second play of the series, you go deep to Christian Watson,
he catches the touchdown. The Packers are up by ten points.
They had had a ten point lead a couple times
in the first half. The Lions answered got the touchdown
right before halftime, and it was frustrating in a sense
because as much as the Packers were really in control
(07:44):
of the game in the first half, they went into
halftime only ahead seventeen to fourteen, and the Lions were
getting the ball coming out to start the second half.
You're looking at if you give up any points there,
all the work that you've done in the first half
feels like it would have gone for not they get
the fourth down stop, Love hits Watson over the top
for the fifty one yard touchdown there back up by ten,
(08:05):
and you know, this is how I look at games
a lot of times us at the end of the day.
But when that game ended, the fourth down stop on
the opening drive of the second half was the only
was the last time the Lions had the ball only
down by one score, right, because because the Packers rebuilt
a ten point lead, and then every time the Lions scored,
(08:26):
the Packers either scored to get back to a multi
score lead, or on the final possession they ran out
the clock. That's how you beat a team. You don't
give them the football when they're only down by one
score and they have a chance to catch you or
jump in front of you. And the way it played
out for green Bay was almost textbook in that fashion.
Speaker 2 (08:45):
The other thing that just is just mind boggling to me,
and I'm sure you want to talk about this, so
I don't want to jump too far ahead on the
script of the unscripted show. Here is the fact that
when you look at every big play that's been happening
in the second half, Micah Parsons is always a part
of it. It feels like, yep, that first stop coming
out of halftime, it wasn't a sack, but it was
a combined TfL with Isaiah McDuffie on fourth down that
(09:08):
gets green Bay the ball back and Michael, what's the
best way to swing momentum? Right? Even though you could
you could conceivably say it was still in green Bay's
favor having the lead, but it was in their sales
for good. When you get that ball back and two
plays later, Jordan Love is hitting a home run to
your biggest home run threat in Christian Watson. I give
(09:30):
the Lions fans a lot of credit, and I don't
want this to come off as a dig because I
think any fan base would struggle with this, but how
that place went from deafening levels of noise. They're coming
off halftime with Jack White and eminem and people are
all geared up, and hey, where maybe you're gonna come
back on the lead. I literally could have shouted from
the press box, the open air press box, and the
(09:52):
entire place would have heard me. It got that quiet, yea,
not only at that interval, but at the end of
the game, you think about the Dantavian Wicks touchdown, it
got quite It was almost like Lions fans were just
shocked at what they were seeing. And if you're a
road team, that's what you have to do. So to
tie this all together, and Matt Lafore kind of talked
(10:12):
about this on Monday when it was like, you know,
when you have a guy like Micah Parsons available, it
allows you to be a little bit more aggressive. Maybe
now on that fourth down where they throw the ball
to D'antavian Wicks on fourth and three, maybe that isn't
as much of a risk in your mind, because you know, well,
at the very least we have a seven point lead
in Micah Parsons on the other side of the ball.
It's just been brilliant watching this come together. So we
(10:35):
talk about complete performances, I personally felt, yes, in all
three phases, very complete performance. But when you tie in
the coaching aspect, the game planning aspect, man the Packers,
I don't know if it was a perfect game, but
it was darn near, you know, a shutout with how
they were able to play this thing against Detroit.
Speaker 1 (10:52):
Yeah, I mean it was. It was definitely the biggest
win of the season to date, and the Packers I
have some more big games coming up, obviously, And from
an individual perspective, I mean you have Jordan Love put
up a one to twenty five pass rating, D'antavian Wicks
six catches, ninety four yards, two touchdowns, the first two
touchdown game of his career, and then your big star
on defense, Michaeh Parsons. He's not only in on the
(11:15):
fourth and one stop on Jamier Gibbs, but he records
two and a half sacks. He makes history becoming the
first player in NFL history to have at least a
dozen sacks in each of the first five seasons of
his career, which is really saying something. He's now got
eight and a half career sacks on Thanksgiving after having
(11:37):
six on Thanksgiving with the Cowboys in four games, which
ties the ties the Thanksgiving record for since the whole
nineteen eighty two when sacks became official thing. But again
we saw, we saw the finisher that Micah Parsons is.
(11:58):
Because you're at three minutes to go in the fourth quarter,
the Lions are in the red zone. They are down
by ten, partly because their previous time down there, they
decided to go for it again on fourth down. Instead
of kicked the field goal to get within seven, they
decided to go for it on fourth and short and
Jamison Williams, who had a tremendous game seven for a
(12:21):
buck forty four and a touchdown. But Jamison Williams drops
the fourth down pass that would have kept that drive
alive for the Lions. So the next time they're down there,
they're in the red zone again, and on third down,
Micah Parsons, you know, kind of a stunt type of
thing where he ends up ends up rushing up the
middle and Jared Goff thought he had time to make
(12:43):
the throw and then suddenly Micah Parsons was in his
face and golf was on his back, and the lost
yardage from that sack then forced the Lions to kick
a field goal, so they were down by seven. I
think that even played into in a lot of ways
how that next possession for the Packers went, because the
different if the Lions get a touchdown there as opposed
(13:04):
to a field goal and they're only down three is
opposed to down seven. You know, how do the decisions
change and how does it play out? So Parsons with
a big time played late in the fourth quarter in
the red zone again, and it has a huge impact
on the football game.
Speaker 2 (13:19):
This guy, man, it is I can't envision it han't
gone any better than what it's been for the Green
Bay Packers. Making a trade of that significance on the
eve of the season. Yeah, without any history in this defense.
Obviously some parallels, as he said, between what the Dallas
did with Mike Zimmer and what you know Jeff Hafley
wants to do. But still the guy came in quarter
(13:42):
to midnight on the NFL season. It has played just
exceptionally wonderful football. In addition to the fact that you know,
for all this consternation about how he defends the run,
I mean what he has done, being able to set
an edge and being able to just play in different capacities.
The most that he shows when he's pursuing the quarterback,
it applies to every down that he plays. And it
(14:06):
feels like as that him and Jeff Hafley have worked
through this season, they've developed a rapport that has enabled
him to become even more dangerous. Right, whether it's been
some of the inside concepts, whether it's been on some
of the extreme stunts that he's been running. And Mike,
I'll tell you what, man, the guy could play fifteen
years in the NFL. I got a feeling that that
(14:28):
sack he had of Goff against Taylor Decker is gonna
be one that's gonna stay on his highlight reel for
a very long time.
Speaker 1 (14:35):
The one around the blind side unbelievable.
Speaker 2 (14:37):
Yeah, like that was one of those prototypical the quarterback
is barely in his drop and Michaeh. Parsons is already
on him. Taylor Decker dealing with some injuries, but one
of the best left tackles in the game, certainly one
of the most longest tenured. They try to match up
Parsons one on one and you see how perilous that
(14:59):
that can be. Yeah, and as you mentioned him walking
away with history from this game. The guy makes everybody
better on defense. There's a swagger that I feel like
is engulfed in this thing now too. As the official
van the fan vote for the Pro Bowl has been
out now five days in, he has the third most votes.
He's leading all defensive ends Packer fans. There's number one
jerseys everywhere in Green Bay. This guy's a superstar.
Speaker 1 (15:20):
Yeah, he is. He absolutely is a superstar. Well, there
was one piece of bad news other than you and
I both getting sick, that came back from Detroit, and
that is that. Unfortunately, and it actually happened on the
three minutes to go in the fourth quarter sack by
Micah Parsons. On that play, Devonte Wyatt went down with
(15:41):
what has turned out to be a season ending ankle injury.
And as a big loss for the Packers because you know,
Wyatt was he was on pace to set a career
high in sacks. He had four in ten games. His
career high, I believe was five and a half. Really
disruptive player both against the run and as an interior
(16:03):
pass rusher, and the Packers now defensively have to move
on without him. Now they have they have the depth
from the number of body standpoint, You've got a guy
like Carl Brooks, who hopefully will be back from his
ankle injury soon. You have two rookies who can sort
of job share in a way. Because Nazir Stackhouse is
(16:24):
kind of the run stuffer in the middle. Warren Brinson,
his Georgia teammate, is more of a help on the
interior pass rush, so they can trade off duties there
in some respects. But Whyatt's gonna be tough to replace,
and this is a big loss for Green Bay's defense.
Speaker 2 (16:42):
Yeah, and I want to just say credit to Devonte Wyatt.
He was already banged up when he went back into
the game. He actually left. I don't know what the
injury was. He got kind of banged up, helped off,
went to the medical tent, went back with the defensive line.
I think it was the second series that he'd returned.
Then unfortunately that happened. So he was already toughing it
out to be out there for this group. I said
(17:04):
it from day one when the Packers made this trade
for Parsons that they don't make that trade and don't
part ways with Kenny Clark if they didn't feel good
about where number ninety five was at now in his
fourth NFL season and when he was healthy, he was
a huge impact player. I mean, I wrote this an
incenter inbox, but he was third on the defense in
both quarterback hits and sacks despite the fact he'd missed
(17:26):
what three games total in addition to some of the
other playing time issues and related to being beat up.
DeVante Wyatt is on the precipice here becoming a really
complete defensive lineman, an interior defensive lineman, and a playmaker
for this defense. All that being said, the Packers still
have a lot of depth there. The young guns that
(17:47):
they have in Wooden and Brooks now step firmly into
the spotlight. We'll have to see exactly what can happen
here with the interior pass rush. Certainly Brinson's going to
factor into that. Baron Surrell has been playing a little
bit of three tech and Nickel Lucas Vaness appears to
still be a little bit away here. Yeah, he was
(18:08):
in the locker room on Monday. Rob Damofski from ESPN
dot com it's spoken to him and said, he's basically
back now. I don't want to say back to square one,
but he's in the rehab process again, hoping to get
back here at some point. We did learn based on
the NFL Transaction Wire on Monday, that Brenton Cox Juniors
returned to practice window opened on Monday, so maybe he
(18:29):
could factor into this. But it's gonna take all hands
on deck here down the stretch to replace a player
like Devonte Wide. He's just he's too He does too
many things well in addition to being a factor in
that third down pass rush, and that will be just
like Tuckercraft on the offensive side of the ball, something
that I think everybody on the defense is going to
have to take upon their shoulders. Yeah.
Speaker 1 (18:49):
Absolutely, and certainly with a big game and a tough
opponent in the Chicago Bears come into lambeau Field, I
do want to talk about where things stand in the
NFC North, but we'll pay some bill first and hear
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com slash Wonders. Welcome back to Packers Unscripted Wes. The
(19:54):
NFC North, the Chicago Bears are sitting on top of
the division at nine to three. They have now won
nine of their last ten games since an zero to
two start to the Ben Johnson era. The Packers right
on their heels at eight to three and one. The
Detroit Lions fall to third place at seven and five
in the division, and the Bears are coming in. We'll
(20:15):
talk a lot more about Chicago and previewing that matchup
at lambeau Field this week on our next show. But man,
the way the way things are shaping up in the NFC,
you had the Carolina Panthers pull an up set and
knock off the Los Angeles Rams, the Bears beating the
(20:36):
Philadelphia Eagles. So Thanksgiving weekend is in the books in
the NFL, and there is not a single team in
the NFC with ten wins. But there are ten teams
in the NFC that are above five hundred ye with
basically five games left to go. I mean, it's if
(20:59):
you haven't buckled up yet, like now is the time.
I mean, this is this, this is gonna get wild.
Speaker 2 (21:04):
Yeah, it will be. And I'm just gonna say this.
You can disagree with me. I don't know how you
feel about it. I feel like, other than Cleveland, I
don't think any of the Packers non wins, I think
they all held up. I mean, when you look at
the way Dallas has played this, they played inspired football.
Speaker 1 (21:24):
Man, Dallas has the number one offense in the league
right now, They're the team. They are the team that
nobody can stop.
Speaker 2 (21:31):
And in credit to George pickens Man because for is
be leaguered and as much of his name had been
drug through the mug mud. Oh my gosh, I can't
speak drag through the mud in Pittsburgh. This guy, in
addition to being what appears to be a good Samaritan
so far in Dallas, has been unbelievable in partnership with
(21:51):
Dak Prescott and c Lamb and Ceedee Lamb is just
Ceedee Lamb. Yeah, the Carolina Panthers are the friskiest team
of all. If this team finds its way in the playoffs,
because Tampa is falling off right now, if the Carolina
Panthers find themselves in the players, they're gonna be kind
of like the Packers two years ago. Nobody's gonna want
to play.
Speaker 1 (22:09):
Yeah, no, you're not gonna win them.
Speaker 2 (22:10):
You could be a two seed, you can be. They're
gonna give everybody fits. Now. They could come up empty.
But they also, I mean the way that they have
risen to the occasion. Bryce Young has been all over
the board in terms of his performance, but the guy
when he's on is on. And then obviously I don't
think you can count with the Detroit Lions either. So
this race in the NFC is gonna be one to watch.
(22:32):
We'll preview the Bears on Thursday. I watched ninety eight
percent of that game against Philly. I was I was
not impressed by what I saw from Philly, But the
Bears did what the Bears do, and I thought defensively
they actually held up a little bit better than they have.
They certainly still took the ball away. But there's so
(22:53):
many weird anomalies with this team, Mike. When they're nine
to three, they're plus six in points scored, like they have,
their takeaway turnover margin is higher than there are points
four and points against. But they find ways to win,
and they've been building momentum as the season wears on.
(23:13):
So yeah, so many things to go over yet with
that matchup. But this Sunday at Lambofield. Man, it's hard
to think of a game against the Bears that's been
played at lambeau Field that is more consequential that I
can remember in my time on the beat. There's been
some big ones in Soldier Field, ye, but at Lambo.
Speaker 1 (23:32):
I don't know.
Speaker 2 (23:33):
This might be up there.
Speaker 1 (23:34):
Yeah, I was going I was actually going through some
of the history and it's interesting because if you go
back to and I may write about this later in
the week, should I've done some research if you go
back to the twenty ten NFC Championship, which was obviously
played at Soldier Field, So there's been roughly fifteen years
(23:55):
since then. I only came up with I only came
up with two games in the Packers Bears rivalry where
there was a lot on the line for both teams.
You know, there have been there have been games where
you know, I mean, the Bears clinched the NFC North
title in twenty eighteen against the Packers. The Packers clinched
(24:18):
the number one seed in the playoffs in twenty twenty
at Chicago against the Bears. So there are games like
that where there's been a lot on the line for
one team but not so much to the other. But there
was a game in twenty twelve where the Packers and
Bears had records similar to what they have now, kind
of a late November I think it was game. And
then obviously the regular season finale in twenty thirteen, which
(24:42):
was which was winner take all, the winner goes to
the playoffs, the loser goes home, and the fourth and
eight and all that. But other than those two games
since the NFC Championship, there haven't been Packers Bears games
with a lot at stake for both squads, and I
think that, you know, it takes the combination of that
and the fact that the Bears broke their losing streak
(25:05):
to the Packers in the regular season finale last year,
when the Packers were being cautious with Jordan Love because
of the playoffs coming up when he injured his hand
and all of that, the Bears broke that losing streak,
and now all of a sudden, we're going to have
this highly consequential game for both squads, and then oh yeah,
they're going to play each other again thirteen days later
(25:27):
in Chicago. So this hole the stretch run is here,
but the stretch run is just getting started.
Speaker 2 (25:33):
So can check this out too, because again West Hawk
was fun with numbers here if you look at net touchdowns, Okay,
the last three years for the number one seed in
the NFC, San Francisco was plus thirty in twenty twenty three,
in twenty twenty four, the Detroit Lions were plus thirty three.
(25:54):
As it stands right now, the number one seeded Chicago
Bears minus three in net in touchdowns. Like I just
I have so much respect for what Ben Johnson's accomplished
because it's just been it's been so atypical and I'm
curious to see independent of this game on Sunday, you
know what the Bears do down the stretch here, because
it's all to play for. They could win fourteen games
(26:15):
this season if they really take this thing all the
way to the playoffs. But just seeing how they manifest
this is going to be fascinating. I will say this again,
we'll preview it on Thursday. But being able to develop
a two headed monster in the backfield that has been
the best friend of Caleb Williams. I think Caleb Williams
has a lot of good traits that you look for
(26:36):
in a quarterback, but he's not turned into the three
hundred and fifty yard passer, you know, dominate the opposition.
He needs help so far in his career, and he's
getting that. In addition to the fact that he's just
been Harry Houdini in the pocket. Guys being unable to
take him to the ground. And defensively, we have not
seen a unit take the ball away at this clip
(26:56):
like what Dennis Allen's group has done this season. So yeah,
it's it's gonna be great theater. But the fact that
the Rams got tripped up by the Panthers, the Eagles
got tripped up by the Bears, that there are all
these eight and nine win teams right now, like the
Packers sit in the sixth seed in with a win
on Sunday could catapult themselves right to the top of
(27:19):
this thing. It shows you the amount of parody but
also the top heaviness of this NFC, and the stakes
for Green Bay are gonna be astronomically high from one
week to the next. There are no real gimmes here.
Obviously Minnesota was not inspiring what we saw, you know,
against Seattle on Sunday, But this next fourteen days, that's
(27:43):
whole stretch. It doesn't get much more exciting.
Speaker 1 (27:46):
Yeah, it's gonna be. It's really gonna be something. We've
got a lot more that we will discuss with regard
to the Bears and break them down offensively, defensively, all
that on our next show, but for now we're gonna
call it a rap on this edition of Packers Unscripted.
Be sure to follow all of our coverage of the
team on Packers dot com for Wesi and Mike. Thank
(28:06):
you for tuning in, everybody, and we will see you
next time.
Hi, everybody. Welcome to another edition of Packers Unscripted from
Packers dot Com. I am Mike Spoffer, joined as always
by my trusted colleague Wes Hodkotz. We're coming to you
hear from our studios at lambeau Field. Both of us
a bit under the weather, I'm afraid to say so.
Please pardon our voices. We're both trying to get through
the show with cough drops in our mouths. Yes, yeah,
(00:28):
where we are out of sick days and we both
caught something over in Detroit. But other than that, it
was a pretty good trip to Detroit for the Packers
West as Green Bay emerges with a thirty one to
twenty four Thanksgiving Day victory over the Lions. And when
you start the discussion of this game, quite simply, it
comes down to fourth down.
Speaker 2 (00:49):
It does. I mean, unbelievable. I've never seen anything quite
like this in terms of the green Bay Packers had
four fourth downs. It's not like they just had like okay,
kept going for it. All of them were extremely consequential
to not only winning this game, but really setting the tone.
I felt like for it, right, I mean, you know,
when you face the Detroit Lions, you're gonna face an
(01:12):
ultra aggressive offense that every single down you have to
be prepared that they're gonna be going for it right
no matter where you are on the field. And to
the credit of Matt Lafleur, because again, you live by
the sword, you die by the sword. You're either the
smartest person in the room where everybody's questioning you the
floor stood by his convictions, and at numerous times during
that game, particularly in fourth and goal, fourth down inside
(01:36):
the red zone, he put his foot firmly on the
glick gas. He trusted Jordan Love to make the throws.
He trusted the Packers' receivers to come through for him.
So it shouldn't have been any surprise whatsoever that when
the game is on the line late, the Packers first
throw it on third down and then they go up
to line of scrimmage and call time out after letting
(01:56):
the clock run down. You and I maybe you I
don't know what you thought. I can tell you what
I thought because I told you this. I'm like, okay,
well this makes sense. You call the time out. Now,
you go back up to the line of scrimmage. You
try to draw them off sides and if not, you
take the delay a game and you let Daniel wheel
and punt it.
Speaker 1 (02:11):
That's exactly what I thought was going to happen. I thought,
because they come back out after the timeout and it's like, okay,
you can't call time out again. You can't call back
to back timeouts without running a play, so calling another
timeout was not an option. I thought, Okay, now they're
really going to try to convince the Lions that they're
running a play here. They're going to try to draw
them off sides. And if you lose five yards on
(02:33):
a delay a game at that spot in the field,
not a big deal. And wheeling comes out in punts.
And I think at the moment the snap occurred, you
and I are sitting next to each other in the
press box, and I think in unison we both said
holy cow, except we didn't say cow. I mean they
snapped it. They snapped the ball. It was like, my goodness.
(02:56):
And but Dontavian Wicks caps probably the best game of
his career in his three year career so far in
Green Bay. He caps it with the leaping catch, one
shoe left on the field and all to convert the
fourth down that allows the Packers to run out the clock.
(03:18):
It was just it's really interesting, especially in such juxtaposition
to the last trip to Detroit, which was last year
on the Thursday night after Thanksgiving, when the Lions got
a pair of touchdowns on fourth downs and then at
the end of the game they're in field goal range
to take the lead, but then Dan Campbell says, we're
(03:40):
gonna go for it on fourth down to get a
first down, to run the clock all the way down
and then kick the walk off field goal for the win.
And that's how the Lions ended up winning that one.
The Packers end up running the clock out this time
on the fourth down. But hats off to Dontavian Wicks.
This young man has been through a lot over the
(04:01):
last season and a half and he really stepped up
big on a national stage.
Speaker 2 (04:06):
What is so incredible as we're talking to him in
the locker room afterwards, and you've been around him enough,
I think fans, if you've watched his interviews enough, Dante,
they have so many of these guys, right, they're just
the same person over and over and over again. Dantavian Wicks,
and he had some drops last year. The way he
handles himself. The way he speaks, the way he talks,
(04:26):
it's the same cadence, nothing, no different mannerisms, no different
facial expressions. He's just so steadfast in his convictions that
he's going to be able to make these plays. And
he said when he stepped to the line of scrimmage
with where he was, he had a pretty good feeling
that the ball was going to be coming to him
because he was gonna be the first guy coming across
Jordan Love's face. He got that step on Brian branch Love,
(04:49):
the other hero of this play. Yeah, even though the
Packers were trying to maybe catch Detroit off guard, they
end up getting a really good push up the middle.
Love has to make a throw off his back foot
and throws it a little bit high, but gets it
in the vicinity of where Wis is and Wix plucks
the thing to be able to come down with it.
(05:09):
In that instance, I think it just showed the growth
and maturation of a player because very easily, I mean,
that is a strong hands catch with a player bearing
down on you. And I don't want to go blow
for blow at the entire game with how it played out,
but you look at you talk about this being the
best game of his career. It's not just in the numbers,
it's just in the visuals. Right the twenty two yard touchdown,
(05:29):
which also was on a fourth down, he's dragging his
feet in the corner of the end zone. He's in
really good coverage and he's making a play in which
if he bobbles that ball at all, it's going to
be ruled in completion and a turnover on down, a
turnover on downs. But to me, the most impressive catch
of the entire game was the thirty yard or on
(05:50):
the scene where he has Thomas Harper darting in at
him from the safety position and he'sless. Jordan Love puts
a tremendous ball on him and he catches that pass
and it sets up yet another scoring drive. The Packers
don't have Tucker Kraft right now the running game. When
(06:10):
you look at Josh Jacobs, he was banged up in
this game going in. He ended up in the medical
ten for a time. He came back to the game.
This was a matchup where the Packers had to rely
on their receivers, and boy golly, did Dantavian Wicks come
up in a big way.
Speaker 1 (06:23):
Yeah, and you just saw, and I kept leaning over
to you in the press box and saying it over
and over again. Throughout the course of the game. You
could see not only the trust that Jordan Love has
in his receivers, but when Jordan Love got up to
the line of scrimmage and saw single coverage on the
outside by the Lions, he was determined to make the
(06:44):
Lions pay for saying we're gonna guard your receivers one
on one. And yeah, not every ball was a completion,
but the number of times that Love just attacked with
those boundary throws against one on one coverage, And of
course the biggest one in terms of yardage was the
fifty one yard touchdown to Christian Watson down the field,
(07:04):
which occurred right after the defense gets the fourth down
stop right near midfield. There's actually both a third and
short and a fourth and short stop in holding up
Jamiir Gibbs there at the line of scrimmage, and then
the Packers respond to that fourth down stop offensively. The
(07:24):
second play of the series, you go deep to Christian Watson,
he catches the touchdown. The Packers are up by ten points.
They had had a ten point lead a couple times
in the first half. The Lions answered got the touchdown
right before halftime, and it was frustrating in a sense
because as much as the Packers were really in control
(07:44):
of the game in the first half, they went into
halftime only ahead seventeen to fourteen, and the Lions were
getting the ball coming out to start the second half.
You're looking at if you give up any points there,
all the work that you've done in the first half
feels like it would have gone for not they get
the fourth down stop, Love hits Watson over the top
for the fifty one yard touchdown there back up by ten,
(08:05):
and you know, this is how I look at games
a lot of times us at the end of the day.
But when that game ended, the fourth down stop on
the opening drive of the second half was the only
was the last time the Lions had the ball only
down by one score, right, because because the Packers rebuilt
a ten point lead, and then every time the Lions scored,
(08:26):
the Packers either scored to get back to a multi
score lead, or on the final possession they ran out
the clock. That's how you beat a team. You don't
give them the football when they're only down by one
score and they have a chance to catch you or
jump in front of you. And the way it played
out for green Bay was almost textbook in that fashion.
Speaker 2 (08:45):
The other thing that just is just mind boggling to me,
and I'm sure you want to talk about this, so
I don't want to jump too far ahead on the
script of the unscripted show. Here is the fact that
when you look at every big play that's been happening
in the second half, Micah Parsons is always a part
of it. It feels like, yep, that first stop coming
out of halftime, it wasn't a sack, but it was
a combined TfL with Isaiah McDuffie on fourth down that
(09:08):
gets green Bay the ball back and Michael, what's the
best way to swing momentum? Right? Even though you could
you could conceivably say it was still in green Bay's
favor having the lead, but it was in their sales
for good. When you get that ball back and two
plays later, Jordan Love is hitting a home run to
your biggest home run threat in Christian Watson. I give
(09:30):
the Lions fans a lot of credit, and I don't
want this to come off as a dig because I
think any fan base would struggle with this, but how
that place went from deafening levels of noise. They're coming
off halftime with Jack White and eminem and people are
all geared up, and hey, where maybe you're gonna come
back on the lead. I literally could have shouted from
the press box, the open air press box, and the
(09:52):
entire place would have heard me. It got that quiet, yea,
not only at that interval, but at the end of
the game, you think about the Dantavian Wicks touchdown, it
got quite It was almost like Lions fans were just
shocked at what they were seeing. And if you're a
road team, that's what you have to do. So to
tie this all together, and Matt Lafore kind of talked
(10:12):
about this on Monday when it was like, you know,
when you have a guy like Micah Parsons available, it
allows you to be a little bit more aggressive. Maybe
now on that fourth down where they throw the ball
to D'antavian Wicks on fourth and three, maybe that isn't
as much of a risk in your mind, because you know, well,
at the very least we have a seven point lead
in Micah Parsons on the other side of the ball.
It's just been brilliant watching this come together. So we
(10:35):
talk about complete performances, I personally felt, yes, in all
three phases, very complete performance. But when you tie in
the coaching aspect, the game planning aspect, man the Packers,
I don't know if it was a perfect game, but
it was darn near, you know, a shutout with how
they were able to play this thing against Detroit.
Speaker 1 (10:52):
Yeah, I mean it was. It was definitely the biggest
win of the season to date, and the Packers I
have some more big games coming up, obviously, And from
an individual perspective, I mean you have Jordan Love put
up a one to twenty five pass rating, D'antavian Wicks
six catches, ninety four yards, two touchdowns, the first two
touchdown game of his career, and then your big star
on defense, Michaeh Parsons. He's not only in on the
(11:15):
fourth and one stop on Jamier Gibbs, but he records
two and a half sacks. He makes history becoming the
first player in NFL history to have at least a
dozen sacks in each of the first five seasons of
his career, which is really saying something. He's now got
eight and a half career sacks on Thanksgiving after having
(11:37):
six on Thanksgiving with the Cowboys in four games, which
ties the ties the Thanksgiving record for since the whole
nineteen eighty two when sacks became official thing. But again
we saw, we saw the finisher that Micah Parsons is.
(11:58):
Because you're at three minutes to go in the fourth quarter,
the Lions are in the red zone. They are down
by ten, partly because their previous time down there, they
decided to go for it again on fourth down. Instead
of kicked the field goal to get within seven, they
decided to go for it on fourth and short and
Jamison Williams, who had a tremendous game seven for a
(12:21):
buck forty four and a touchdown. But Jamison Williams drops
the fourth down pass that would have kept that drive
alive for the Lions. So the next time they're down there,
they're in the red zone again, and on third down,
Micah Parsons, you know, kind of a stunt type of
thing where he ends up ends up rushing up the
middle and Jared Goff thought he had time to make
(12:43):
the throw and then suddenly Micah Parsons was in his
face and golf was on his back, and the lost
yardage from that sack then forced the Lions to kick
a field goal, so they were down by seven. I
think that even played into in a lot of ways
how that next possession for the Packers went, because the
different if the Lions get a touchdown there as opposed
(13:04):
to a field goal and they're only down three is
opposed to down seven. You know, how do the decisions
change and how does it play out? So Parsons with
a big time played late in the fourth quarter in
the red zone again, and it has a huge impact
on the football game.
Speaker 2 (13:19):
This guy, man, it is I can't envision it han't
gone any better than what it's been for the Green
Bay Packers. Making a trade of that significance on the
eve of the season. Yeah, without any history in this defense.
Obviously some parallels, as he said, between what the Dallas
did with Mike Zimmer and what you know Jeff Hafley
wants to do. But still the guy came in quarter
(13:42):
to midnight on the NFL season. It has played just
exceptionally wonderful football. In addition to the fact that you know,
for all this consternation about how he defends the run,
I mean what he has done, being able to set
an edge and being able to just play in different capacities.
The most that he shows when he's pursuing the quarterback,
it applies to every down that he plays. And it
(14:06):
feels like as that him and Jeff Hafley have worked
through this season, they've developed a rapport that has enabled
him to become even more dangerous. Right, whether it's been
some of the inside concepts, whether it's been on some
of the extreme stunts that he's been running. And Mike,
I'll tell you what, man, the guy could play fifteen
years in the NFL. I got a feeling that that
(14:28):
sack he had of Goff against Taylor Decker is gonna
be one that's gonna stay on his highlight reel for
a very long time.
Speaker 1 (14:35):
The one around the blind side unbelievable.
Speaker 2 (14:37):
Yeah, like that was one of those prototypical the quarterback
is barely in his drop and Michaeh. Parsons is already
on him. Taylor Decker dealing with some injuries, but one
of the best left tackles in the game, certainly one
of the most longest tenured. They try to match up
Parsons one on one and you see how perilous that
(14:59):
that can be. Yeah, and as you mentioned him walking
away with history from this game. The guy makes everybody
better on defense. There's a swagger that I feel like
is engulfed in this thing now too. As the official
van the fan vote for the Pro Bowl has been
out now five days in, he has the third most votes.
He's leading all defensive ends Packer fans. There's number one
jerseys everywhere in Green Bay. This guy's a superstar.
Speaker 1 (15:20):
Yeah, he is. He absolutely is a superstar. Well, there
was one piece of bad news other than you and
I both getting sick, that came back from Detroit, and
that is that. Unfortunately, and it actually happened on the
three minutes to go in the fourth quarter sack by
Micah Parsons. On that play, Devonte Wyatt went down with
(15:41):
what has turned out to be a season ending ankle injury.
And as a big loss for the Packers because you know,
Wyatt was he was on pace to set a career
high in sacks. He had four in ten games. His
career high, I believe was five and a half. Really
disruptive player both against the run and as an interior
(16:03):
pass rusher, and the Packers now defensively have to move
on without him. Now they have they have the depth
from the number of body standpoint, You've got a guy
like Carl Brooks, who hopefully will be back from his
ankle injury soon. You have two rookies who can sort
of job share in a way. Because Nazir Stackhouse is
(16:24):
kind of the run stuffer in the middle. Warren Brinson,
his Georgia teammate, is more of a help on the
interior pass rush, so they can trade off duties there
in some respects. But Whyatt's gonna be tough to replace,
and this is a big loss for Green Bay's defense.
Speaker 2 (16:42):
Yeah, and I want to just say credit to Devonte Wyatt.
He was already banged up when he went back into
the game. He actually left. I don't know what the
injury was. He got kind of banged up, helped off,
went to the medical tent, went back with the defensive line.
I think it was the second series that he'd returned.
Then unfortunately that happened. So he was already toughing it
out to be out there for this group. I said
(17:04):
it from day one when the Packers made this trade
for Parsons that they don't make that trade and don't
part ways with Kenny Clark if they didn't feel good
about where number ninety five was at now in his
fourth NFL season and when he was healthy, he was
a huge impact player. I mean, I wrote this an
incenter inbox, but he was third on the defense in
both quarterback hits and sacks despite the fact he'd missed
(17:26):
what three games total in addition to some of the
other playing time issues and related to being beat up.
DeVante Wyatt is on the precipice here becoming a really
complete defensive lineman, an interior defensive lineman, and a playmaker
for this defense. All that being said, the Packers still
have a lot of depth there. The young guns that
(17:47):
they have in Wooden and Brooks now step firmly into
the spotlight. We'll have to see exactly what can happen
here with the interior pass rush. Certainly Brinson's going to
factor into that. Baron Surrell has been playing a little
bit of three tech and Nickel Lucas Vaness appears to
still be a little bit away here. Yeah, he was
(18:08):
in the locker room on Monday. Rob Damofski from ESPN
dot com it's spoken to him and said, he's basically
back now. I don't want to say back to square one,
but he's in the rehab process again, hoping to get
back here at some point. We did learn based on
the NFL Transaction Wire on Monday, that Brenton Cox Juniors
returned to practice window opened on Monday, so maybe he
(18:29):
could factor into this. But it's gonna take all hands
on deck here down the stretch to replace a player
like Devonte Wide. He's just he's too He does too
many things well in addition to being a factor in
that third down pass rush, and that will be just
like Tuckercraft on the offensive side of the ball, something
that I think everybody on the defense is going to
have to take upon their shoulders. Yeah.
Speaker 1 (18:49):
Absolutely, and certainly with a big game and a tough
opponent in the Chicago Bears come into lambeau Field, I
do want to talk about where things stand in the
NFC North, but we'll pay some bill first and hear
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com slash Wonders. Welcome back to Packers Unscripted Wes. The
(19:54):
NFC North, the Chicago Bears are sitting on top of
the division at nine to three. They have now won
nine of their last ten games since an zero to
two start to the Ben Johnson era. The Packers right
on their heels at eight to three and one. The
Detroit Lions fall to third place at seven and five
in the division, and the Bears are coming in. We'll
(20:15):
talk a lot more about Chicago and previewing that matchup
at lambeau Field this week on our next show. But man,
the way the way things are shaping up in the NFC,
you had the Carolina Panthers pull an up set and
knock off the Los Angeles Rams, the Bears beating the
(20:36):
Philadelphia Eagles. So Thanksgiving weekend is in the books in
the NFL, and there is not a single team in
the NFC with ten wins. But there are ten teams
in the NFC that are above five hundred ye with
basically five games left to go. I mean, it's if
(20:59):
you haven't buckled up yet, like now is the time.
I mean, this is this, this is gonna get wild.
Speaker 2 (21:04):
Yeah, it will be. And I'm just gonna say this.
You can disagree with me. I don't know how you
feel about it. I feel like, other than Cleveland, I
don't think any of the Packers non wins, I think
they all held up. I mean, when you look at
the way Dallas has played this, they played inspired football.
Speaker 1 (21:24):
Man, Dallas has the number one offense in the league
right now, They're the team. They are the team that
nobody can stop.
Speaker 2 (21:31):
And in credit to George pickens Man because for is
be leaguered and as much of his name had been
drug through the mug mud. Oh my gosh, I can't
speak drag through the mud in Pittsburgh. This guy, in
addition to being what appears to be a good Samaritan
so far in Dallas, has been unbelievable in partnership with
(21:51):
Dak Prescott and c Lamb and Ceedee Lamb is just
Ceedee Lamb. Yeah, the Carolina Panthers are the friskiest team
of all. If this team finds its way in the playoffs,
because Tampa is falling off right now, if the Carolina
Panthers find themselves in the players, they're gonna be kind
of like the Packers two years ago. Nobody's gonna want
to play.
Speaker 1 (22:09):
Yeah, no, you're not gonna win them.
Speaker 2 (22:10):
You could be a two seed, you can be. They're
gonna give everybody fits. Now. They could come up empty.
But they also, I mean the way that they have
risen to the occasion. Bryce Young has been all over
the board in terms of his performance, but the guy
when he's on is on. And then obviously I don't
think you can count with the Detroit Lions either. So
this race in the NFC is gonna be one to watch.
(22:32):
We'll preview the Bears on Thursday. I watched ninety eight
percent of that game against Philly. I was I was
not impressed by what I saw from Philly, But the
Bears did what the Bears do, and I thought defensively
they actually held up a little bit better than they have.
They certainly still took the ball away. But there's so
(22:53):
many weird anomalies with this team, Mike. When they're nine
to three, they're plus six in points scored, like they have,
their takeaway turnover margin is higher than there are points
four and points against. But they find ways to win,
and they've been building momentum as the season wears on.
(23:13):
So yeah, so many things to go over yet with
that matchup. But this Sunday at Lambofield. Man, it's hard
to think of a game against the Bears that's been
played at lambeau Field that is more consequential that I
can remember in my time on the beat. There's been
some big ones in Soldier Field, ye, but at Lambo.
Speaker 1 (23:32):
I don't know.
Speaker 2 (23:33):
This might be up there.
Speaker 1 (23:34):
Yeah, I was going I was actually going through some
of the history and it's interesting because if you go
back to and I may write about this later in
the week, should I've done some research if you go
back to the twenty ten NFC Championship, which was obviously
played at Soldier Field, So there's been roughly fifteen years
(23:55):
since then. I only came up with I only came
up with two games in the Packers Bears rivalry where
there was a lot on the line for both teams.
You know, there have been there have been games where
you know, I mean, the Bears clinched the NFC North
title in twenty eighteen against the Packers. The Packers clinched
(24:18):
the number one seed in the playoffs in twenty twenty
at Chicago against the Bears. So there are games like
that where there's been a lot on the line for
one team but not so much to the other. But there
was a game in twenty twelve where the Packers and
Bears had records similar to what they have now, kind
of a late November I think it was game. And
then obviously the regular season finale in twenty thirteen, which
(24:42):
was which was winner take all, the winner goes to
the playoffs, the loser goes home, and the fourth and
eight and all that. But other than those two games
since the NFC Championship, there haven't been Packers Bears games
with a lot at stake for both squads, and I
think that, you know, it takes the combination of that
and the fact that the Bears broke their losing streak
(25:05):
to the Packers in the regular season finale last year,
when the Packers were being cautious with Jordan Love because
of the playoffs coming up when he injured his hand
and all of that, the Bears broke that losing streak,
and now all of a sudden, we're going to have
this highly consequential game for both squads, and then oh yeah,
they're going to play each other again thirteen days later
(25:27):
in Chicago. So this hole the stretch run is here,
but the stretch run is just getting started.
Speaker 2 (25:33):
So can check this out too, because again West Hawk
was fun with numbers here if you look at net touchdowns, Okay,
the last three years for the number one seed in
the NFC, San Francisco was plus thirty in twenty twenty three,
in twenty twenty four, the Detroit Lions were plus thirty three.
(25:54):
As it stands right now, the number one seeded Chicago
Bears minus three in net in touchdowns. Like I just
I have so much respect for what Ben Johnson's accomplished
because it's just been it's been so atypical and I'm
curious to see independent of this game on Sunday, you
know what the Bears do down the stretch here, because
it's all to play for. They could win fourteen games
(26:15):
this season if they really take this thing all the
way to the playoffs. But just seeing how they manifest
this is going to be fascinating. I will say this again,
we'll preview it on Thursday. But being able to develop
a two headed monster in the backfield that has been
the best friend of Caleb Williams. I think Caleb Williams
has a lot of good traits that you look for
(26:36):
in a quarterback, but he's not turned into the three
hundred and fifty yard passer, you know, dominate the opposition.
He needs help so far in his career, and he's
getting that. In addition to the fact that he's just
been Harry Houdini in the pocket. Guys being unable to
take him to the ground. And defensively, we have not
seen a unit take the ball away at this clip
(26:56):
like what Dennis Allen's group has done this season. So yeah,
it's it's gonna be great theater. But the fact that
the Rams got tripped up by the Panthers, the Eagles
got tripped up by the Bears, that there are all
these eight and nine win teams right now, like the
Packers sit in the sixth seed in with a win
on Sunday could catapult themselves right to the top of
(27:19):
this thing. It shows you the amount of parody but
also the top heaviness of this NFC, and the stakes
for Green Bay are gonna be astronomically high from one
week to the next. There are no real gimmes here.
Obviously Minnesota was not inspiring what we saw, you know,
against Seattle on Sunday, But this next fourteen days, that's
(27:43):
whole stretch. It doesn't get much more exciting.
Speaker 1 (27:46):
Yeah, it's gonna be. It's really gonna be something. We've
got a lot more that we will discuss with regard
to the Bears and break them down offensively, defensively, all
that on our next show, but for now we're gonna
call it a rap on this edition of Packers Unscripted.
Be sure to follow all of our coverage of the
team on Packers dot com for Wesi and Mike. Thank
(28:06):
you for tuning in, everybody, and we will see you
next time.
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