December 23, 2025 • 44 mins
In this 2-for-1 holiday week episode, Mike and Wes discuss the loss to the Bears (:21), how the team moves forward (5:41) and the struggles in the red zone (12:28). They also preview the upcoming matchup with the Ravens (19:20), looking at the QB situations (20:12), the keys to victory (28:24), and other important Week 17 games (35:31).
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:06):
Hi, everybody. Welcome to another edition of Packers Unscripted from
Packers dot Com. I am Mike Spafford, joined as always
by my trusted colleague West Hodkoitz. We're coming to you
here from our studios at lambeau Field, Wes to discuss
a rough one twenty two to sixteen overtime loss to
Chicago on Saturday night at Soldier Field. I don't know
(00:29):
how exactly to break this down, and we got a
lot of ground to cover in this show because with
Thursday being the holiday this week, we're actually kind of
doing a two for one here. We're gonna do one
show this week, review the last game, preview the next one.
Get it all in right here in one episode. But
man Malik Willis balled out. The defense had a tremendous debut,
(00:55):
sort of the debut without Micah Parsons for twenty twenty five,
and then it just all unraveled in the last few
minutes and a lot of really really good work and
a lot of really good football by the Packers just
went by the wayside.
Speaker 2 (01:08):
Yeah, And unfortunately for Green Bay, this has just been
a story that we've heard at various times this season
where the Packers have played really good football for two
and a half, for three quarters, and then a game
just gets away from them. Right. That's what happened with Cleveland.
To a certain extent, that's what happened with Carolina. When
you look at the game against Denver, things are tracking
(01:28):
in the right direction midway through the early in the
third quarter, and then things fall apart. So number of
levels to look at this. First and foremost, I do
tip my cap to the Chicago Bears. You have to
show that respect. That is a very talented football team.
It's not an accident that they take away the football
the way that they do their physicality. I thought the
(01:51):
alignment on the on side kick that they recovered was tremendous.
The kick by Santos was great. Santos was maybe the
MVP of this game with how he handled those condition
giving the Bears a shot to stay within arms reach
a Green Bay. But from the Packers' standpoint, it was this,
you know, multiple issues that all flared up for them
(02:14):
in the fourth quarter, execution alignment mistakes that led to
a really devastating loss. When you look at a game
in which Michael, you know, the Packers move ahead sixteen
to six with five h three left in the fourth quarter.
I don't think anybody was packing in the bags at all.
But you are, with Chicago sitting on two timeouts at
(02:36):
that point, you're thinking to yourself, Okay, the Packers just
got to keep playing the way they have here for
the first fifty five minutes and they'll be able to
get out of Chicago with a huge victory and kind
of in control their own destiny as it relates to
the division. And it doesn't happen. Caleb Williams made some
magnificent throws. The Packers made some key errors, some key breakdowns.
(02:57):
Unfortunately defensively, as good as they were, there was some
explosives late and again you do you look at what
Caleb Williams did, and Packers have a They get Brenton
Cox Junior directly in front of Williams a free rusher
fourth and four, yep, and Williams makes a tremendous throw
to you know, Walker and.
Speaker 1 (03:18):
And it's on a coverage bus to coverage bus. It's
a great throw and a great catch, but it's a
much much tougher catch to make if it's contested with
a defender also in the corner. And there was the
miscommunication whatever it is that happened with the Packers two
corners there, Hobbs and Nixon, they both went with one
receiver and they left the second receiver open. You know.
(03:39):
But that again, as you said, that's just one of
one of a litany of mistakes. I mean, I think
the most the most depressing thing about this loss. Not
only did it put the Chicago Bears in complete control
of the NFC North now with a game and a
half lead over Green Bay with two games to go,
(04:01):
but that the way things it unfolded everything that the
Packers had gone through the previous week. You know, you
lose Micah Parsons. You're going into this game without Zach
Tom and without Evan Williams, and you're making all of
these adjustments, and then you lose Jordan Love to the
concussion in the second quarter, and Malik Willis comes in
(04:21):
and he's moving the team, and yeah, they're failing in
the red zone, but they're putting points on the board.
The defense is staying in control everything that you're dealing with,
all this adversity that the Packers are looking like they
have overcome it and they are on the verge of
what was going to be the most significant and most
uplifting victory of the entire season, hands down, and then
(04:44):
in sort of a blink of an eye, it turns
from that into the most devastating loss of the season
because of how it unfolds. There's never there's, in my opinion,
there's never any loss in this league more frustrating than
when you lose because you don't recover an on side kick, right,
because it just you give the other team back to
(05:05):
back possessions. And the Bears took advantage of that, got
the points they needed to get the game to overtime,
and once it got to overtime, it was it was
anybody's game. And Malik Willis unfortunately his tremendous performance in
those conditions coming off the bench, He's hardly played this year.
Aside from that one drive against the New York Giants.
(05:25):
His wonderful performance is ruined by the fumbled snap on
fourth and one in overtime. Just you know, there was
something that happened in every phase along the way that
contributed to it, and now it's just all about, Okay,
it's another big pile of adversity in front of you, Right,
can the Packers plow through it. Can they overcome it?
(05:48):
They still can make the playoffs with one more victory
or one loss by the Detroit Lions. They still could
win the division with two wins and two losses by
the Bears, which is not out of the realm of
possibility given that the Bears are playing a red hot
forty nine Ers team coming up this week. But the
bottom line is the Packers are fighting for their playoff lives.
(06:10):
They will be facing a team on Saturday night at
Lambe Field doing exactly the same thing in the Baltimore Ravens,
fighting for their playoff lives. Can the Packers overcome yet
another snowball in the face of adversity that they have
fate that they have run into in these last couple
of weeks.
Speaker 2 (06:27):
I was like an ice It's like an ice ball
of adversity, right, yeah, listen. So first and foremost, I
wish I should have just brought in a printed out
sheet of paper. I wish I could just read your
reply to one of the questions from Insider Inbox on
Monday asking about you know, everything that happened, who to blame?
Speaker 1 (06:44):
Basically, and yeah, everybody, everybody wants some everybody wants somebody
to blame and they want they they want it to
be they want it to be simple. They wanted to say,
it's this guy's fault. It's it's Romeo Dobb's fault, or
it's Josh Jacob's fault because he fumbled inside the five
yard line, or it's the coach fault or this or that,
And you can't try to simplify it. If you try
(07:05):
to simplify it, you're you're doing the whole situation and injustice.
That that was essentially the point I was trying to make.
Speaker 2 (07:12):
And and what I love though, Okay, so, and I
want to talk about Jordan Love here in a second too.
But what I love about this game is that it
articulates some lingering issues for Green Bay. But it also
showed again Packers have not been blown out by any
opponent this year. They've played with everybody this team, whether
Micah parss is on the field, Tucker Craft, DeVante why
(07:34):
and all these guys, whether they're there or not, the
Packers can compete with anybody. And it's why should they
make it to the playoffs here? And I know the
percentage chances that are very high, but should they make it.
They need to get that next last little tick to
get that spot. Yeah, the Packers are a formidable opponent
for anybody that they're going to face. This is what
(07:55):
I like about it. They're going to have a chance.
When they use that analogy about you know, they have
the pen, they write their own story. That's never been
more true. The issues that they've had, the games that
they've lost this season, they're going to have a chance
to rectify all that, and if they don't, their season
will be over right, either by the end of the
regular season or in the postseason. The Packers control all
(08:16):
of this still. Yeah, the division's out of hand, But
the fact is is that out of their hand. I
should say it's not controllable. But the Packers have been
able to face the Philadelphia Eagles, the Denver Broncos, that
the Bears twice, they beat the Lions twice, and they
can do it. They definitely can do it. The maddening
(08:38):
part about it is that they find themselves in this
situation that they're in because of the times in which
they haven't produced. And that's been red zone, that's been
untimely turnovers, it's been not taking the ball away when
they've had opportunities, something they did very well last season.
And that's why we go into this game Baltimore on
(09:00):
Saturday night with the stakes being what they are. The
Packers have to figure out here and it's going to
be fascinating to watch down the stretch. Now, Okay, you
guys have they did not punt in this game. Second
time the season they've lost the game in which they
(09:21):
haven't punted. Yeah, and I saw there was a stat
from somebody. The other eight teams that have done that
this year, they're eight. No, okay, and there were turnovers,
there are other things that.
Speaker 1 (09:29):
And the Packers have had one game where they only
had one punt and they also lost that game.
Speaker 2 (09:35):
But what stinks is that the Josh Jacobs FUMBLELL talk
about that tough play, right, Yeah, the Bears get the ball,
the Packers give up one run and then the defense
holds them. They have to punt, and the Packers are
able to come back. The Packers goal for it fourth
(09:56):
and goal on their first possession, don't.
Speaker 1 (09:59):
Get it and one on the seven.
Speaker 2 (10:01):
Yeah, yeah, don't get it. Bears go all the way
down the field. They go for it on fourth down,
don't get it. There was so much you know, sudden
change and adversity, defense and different things that played a
factor into Green Bay having the lead that they did.
It was just a shame to see that fall apart
late and then obviously the on side kick giving the
(10:24):
Bear's second life. There's just in the last few days
that I've been just trying to like encapsulate this in
my mind, and the fact that the Lions end up
losing as well to the Steelers.
Speaker 1 (10:34):
So yeah, it all sort of.
Speaker 2 (10:35):
Ended up being a push, so to speak, other than
the fact of the division ramifications of that loss. It's
just it's a weird thing. And to watch Malik Willis
go back out there throw the ball really well. I
thought that was one of his best performances in terms
of just naturally throwing the football in addition to creating
some plays with his feet too.
Speaker 1 (10:54):
A touchdown pass to Romeo Dobbs was an absolute beauty
and it was a play that he can't he can
to that route at the line of scrimmage, he saw
the defense, you know, made that adjustment on the fly
and then put the ball right on the money. That
was sort of what made up for the Josh Jacobs fumble,
because then the Packers did get the touchdown on their
next drive to go ahead by ten points. You know,
(11:16):
et cetera, et cetera. It still felt like, all right,
you know, they're they're in good shape here. But at
the end of the day, you still look back at
going zero for five in the red zone and and like,
how many points did you leave out there?
Speaker 2 (11:28):
The frustrating thing about that too, is in the last
time that they settled for the field go with McManus,
that was the Packers. Yes, you want to get the touchdown,
but they just needed points at that point.
Speaker 1 (11:37):
Yeah, you're just yeah, you're trying to just make it
a two score game again.
Speaker 2 (11:40):
That's what you're looking for, absolutely, But to still start
the game where it's turnover on downs and then two
more field goals and you're for the second straight week,
you're looking at a six to nothing lead. When people
do this thing and fans do this thing, of all,
we should take the points. Well, the problem with taking
the points, especially in a fourth and one where you
have a chance to convert and then still have the
(12:00):
goal to go opportunity. Yeah, the problem with taking those
points in that situation is if you do that twice,
not only did you end up basically fumbling away a touchdown,
you don't get the extra point either. So that's why
teams do this. It's just it comes down execution. The
Packers didn't have enough of it. In many ways, they
did what they had to do to win this game,
but ultimately, when it came down to it, this is
(12:23):
why the Bears won.
Speaker 1 (12:24):
Yeah, and I want to shift gears to the Ravens,
and we need to talk about what the Packers need
to do to get back on the winning track and
get things going in the right direction again. But you know,
when I look back at these last two games, as
the Packers have gone from nine to three and one
and looking like, okay, if you're really rolling here, you've
got a shot maybe even at the number one seed
(12:44):
in the NFC, et cetera, et cetera. But now you've
lost two games in a row, both of which you
had two score leads in the second half on the road,
you let them get away. So you've gone from nine
to three and one to nine to five in one
You want, you can talk about you can talk about
the injuries in game during the week, whatever, and all
(13:07):
this other stuff that the Packers have had to overcome.
The single biggest reason the Packers have lost these last
two games is because they're one for nine in the
red zone. There is nothing else to point to because
for everything, the injuries and maybe and some turnovers and
this and that and the on side kick, whatever the
(13:29):
opportunities that they have let get away on offense, the
points they have left out there by going only one
for nine, only one touchdown in their last nine trips
into the red zone. That is why they have lost
two games in a row. And I don't care if
next Saturday Night's opponent is the Baltimore Ravens or the
uw Plattville Pioneers. The Packers have to figure out how
(13:51):
to get the ball back into the end zone. Because
prior to the Denver game, Green Bay was number two
in the league in red zone offensive conversions, number two
in the league, and in two weeks they have gone
from second in the league in red zone offense to fourteenth.
They have gone from one of the best teams in
the league to the middle of the pack in a
(14:13):
span of two games. That is the biggest thing that
needs to change for the Packers to get this thing
back going in the right direction.
Speaker 2 (14:21):
Yeah, now you're one thousand percent right. And the fact
that they still are number one and third down offense
despite facing a really good third down defense in Denver.
That's been the situational components of this game is where
ultimately all that execution is what leads to points or
lack thereof. In the last few weeks, there just hasn't
been enough of it. Josh Jacobs has been banged up,
(14:43):
you know, Romeo Dobbs had a couple of quiet performances.
He's typically been one of the huge red zone targets.
The Packers have had all these injuries, specifically at the
tight end position that they've been working through. So there's
been adversity that they've faced. But at the end of
the day, you still have to find a way to
punch that thing in if I may. Before we go
over to the Ravens too, I have to say, I mean,
(15:04):
the other tragedy of this game is that Green Bay
had to finish it without Jordan Love and that's a
huge shift, right, And when you're talking about where green
Bay was, you know, trying to find its rhythm kind
of like it was against the Giants last month, and
then you take number ten out because of Austin Booker's hit,
and we can get into that or not get into that.
(15:25):
That's up to you. But the fact is is that
for the Packers to put in a quarterback like Malik
he Malik Willis, excuse me, he has to go in
in that situation cold having thrown a five passes this
whole season, it was, and runs the offense that efficiently.
I mean the guy is just absolutely cold blooded, right,
(15:47):
I mean, he just his his temperament is exactly like
Jordan loves just no flinch, doesn't blink and looks for
that opportunity. I always say this. It goes back to
that playoff game in Arizona for me twenty fifteen where
you had the Janis Hail Mary. So many things happen
and then the Packers lose it on an explosive play
to Larry Fitzercherscherld. This is one of those games that
(16:09):
when I was in the locker room, aphorism like this
doesn't make any sense how this game played out, because
even the hero Romeo Dobbs, who had four catches for
fifty one yards in the first quarter alone, to get
the offense move in has that beautiful over the shoulder
touchdown from Malik Willis. Then unfortunately he has the issue
there on the on site kick. Nothing lined up narrative
(16:29):
wise of how it should have how it felt like
it should have in this game, and the Packers ended
up with a loss.
Speaker 1 (16:35):
I'm gonna say one more thing to backtrack on something,
and I'm gonna make this comment an insider inbox as well,
because you and I are hearing it a lot from
people who who keep going back to that opening drive
of the game, fourth and one on the seven, you're
on the road, just you know, take the points and whatever.
And I understand the argument, and I'm not saying I'm
not saying that it's totally clear cut what you do.
(16:56):
But when you go when you go all the way
back to the beginning of the game and you say, well,
if the Packers had those three points, like you know,
they would have won or you know this, and that
it's like that decision. If the Packers kick the field
goal there to go up three to nothing, if the
Bears are in that same I mean, if the score
is three to nothing, maybe Ben Johnson kicks the field
(17:16):
goal as well and ties the game three to three
instead of going for it exactly. So I mean, you know,
Johnson probably goes for it on fourth and one, still
on the Wildcat snap to Kyle Mnungai. But if he doesn't,
and because the Packers are up three to nothing, if
he's like, all right, I'm just going to kick the
field goal, get the game tied after one possession each,
and keep playing, well, then three to three is the
(17:38):
same as zero to zero. So you can't. You can't
sit there and say that not taking the points on
the opening drive of the game like decided something somehow,
because because it didn't, you know, there was there were
still fifty three minutes left of football to play after that.
So I just you have to you have to step
back and look at everything from the big picture and
(18:00):
not not focus on something on one decision that was
so early in the game that it would have had
this massive effect on how everything else had played out.
So I just wanted to say that that's great. Yeah,
But before I get lost in this two for one
episode and we shift gears here to the Baltimore Ravens,
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(18:23):
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All Right Wes Saturday Night lambeau Field yet another Saturday
Nights all Right for fighting in the NFL. The Baltimore Ravens.
They're coming off of a very frustrating loss on their part.
(19:32):
Sunday Night Football. They lose at home to the New
England Patriots. After leading twenty four to thirteen in the
fourth quarter. Wasn't exactly the same type of collapse that
the Packers suffered, but nonetheless a tough loss for the
Ravens that has now dropped them to seven and eight.
They are two games behind the Pittsburgh Steelers in the
(19:53):
AFC North, the Steelers sitting at nine and six after
a very helpful win, a win that helped Green Bay
with Steelers and Aaron Rodgers knocking off the Detroit Lions
at Ford Field, So the Ravens are up against it.
And as we go into this not knowing and at
(20:13):
the time we're taping this episode, we haven't really gotten
an update on where Jordan Love is with the concussion protocol,
where Malik Willis is with his shoulder that got hurt
on the sack on the final play of regulation before
overtime at Soldier Field. The Ravens also lost Lamar Jackson
to a bruised back in the Sunday night game against
(20:34):
New England. Tyler Huntley came in and finished that game.
So for both teams here things very much up in
the air in terms of where things are at with
the quarterback position, and quite Frankly, we may not know
a whole heck of a lot for either team until
ninety minutes before kickoff on Saturday. I mean, who knows here.
Speaker 2 (20:56):
Yeah, it's probably the biggest question mark I think I've
ever seen my time of the beat as it relates
to both football teams heading into a game backup quarterbacks.
Because it's not just love in Lamar Jackson, right, it
is the Malik Willis component to this too, injuring his
shoulder there at the end of regulation, and kudos him
playing through it. Had the thirty one yard completion to
(21:16):
Jaden Reid really toughed it out for a Packers team
at that at that point does not have an emergency
quarterback available Clayton Tunes on practice squad, so it's not
like they could have activated anybody else. Yeah, Yeah, it's
The Baltimore game is gonna be fascinating for a couple
of reasons. One, this is a team that has been
a total world beater at times this year. Again, much
(21:38):
like Green Bay, feels like they can play with anybody,
beat anybody, but defensively have had their struggles this season.
Lamar Jackson has had his injuries and they've had to
solely adapt. I think the one thing that's been cool
to see from an outside looking in and I wrote
about this an insider inbox. I think Tyler Huntley fits
(21:58):
exactly what they do really well. I've never understood why
he hasn't just been anointed the Doug Peterson backup there.
Speaker 1 (22:06):
I totally agree with you.
Speaker 2 (22:08):
He when he left for Cleveland. It's not like he
went and signed a one year, ten million dollar deal.
He left for like a million and a half dollars.
Like I think in his career, Tyler Huntley's made like
seven million dollars for like five seasons. He has gone
to a Pro Bowl though, too. I have to throw
that in there, Pro Bowl, Michael Parson's congrats.
Speaker 1 (22:25):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (22:25):
But the fact is that they have all the type
of talent to compete. I mean, Derrick Henry is still
a force. When you saw the statistic this week, you know,
his another twelve touchdown rushing year for him, over twelve
hundred yards receiving. They just extended Mark Andrews save Flowers,
(22:46):
you know, a tough ending to that game against the Patriots.
But the fact is he's a thousand yard receiver for them.
He's become their their wide receiver, one that they've been
searching for for so long, to run alongside Lamar Jackson.
So this is not easy. This is not going to
be a fun game here for green Bay, regardless of
who's at quarterback. And John Harbaughs as savvy as they
(23:06):
come as far as National Football League head coaches, so
a supreme challenge for Green Bay. But at the end
of the day, this is an opponent that the Packers
have to get past to get to their goals. They
have not executed in these interconference games, intraconference games as
well as they did last season right against the AFC.
They have to win this football game.
Speaker 1 (23:27):
Yeah, absolutely. The thing that stood out to me watching
and I did watch a fair amount of the Sunday
night game with when the Ravens lost to the Patriots,
because you know, you and I had talked about it
earlier in the season on the show. You know, the
other sort of other implications that we follow, and this
just hasn't been the typical Baltimore Ravens defense that we've
(23:50):
been used to seeing. But what stood out to me
as the Patriots were making the fourth quarter comeback because
they were up again, I mean twenty four to thirteen
on the road. You know, the Patriots were kind of
up against it there and they're fighting with the Broncos
for the one seed in the AFC and all that.
As the Ravens defense kind of crumbled in the fourth quarter.
(24:13):
They were getting pressure on Drake maybe the Patriots quarterup,
they were getting pressure on him consistently and May just
kept delivering against that pressure because the Ravens coverage could
not hold up and they even caught a break when
you know, the guy on the deep ball just gets
tackled and they don't even throw the pass interference flag.
I mean, that was just a horrible defensive coverage play
(24:34):
and they got away with it. But this this Ravens
team has had has had coverage issues, and they seem
to have found something. They lost Matdabuicke to the neck
injury earlier in the year, their defense took a step
back from a pass rush standpoint. It seems that that
pass rush has started to find something a little bit
(24:54):
more lately. Whether it's going to be Lover or Willis
under center on Saturday night, the Packers have to be
ready for that kind of pressure and to be able
to deliver from the quarterback position under pressure. But the
opportunities will be there because the Ravens have not been
a great coverage team downfield, and that's where the Packers
are going to have to take advantage.
Speaker 2 (25:13):
It is. The statistics for the Ravens are really something
else to look at, because if you just look at
total yards, in total passing and even to some extent,
points allowed, not good. It's been a rough year for them.
But they're thirteenth against the run, they're seventh against on
third downs, they're sixth in red zone, they're fourth and
goal to go, and as you said, I mean they generate.
(25:35):
I think their pass rush numbers and their pressure numbers
have been better in the second half of the season
than they were early on, which has allowed them to
kind of recompose themselves a little bit. But this is
a game, and this is an opponent that the Packers
have to be able to throw against. Whether it's Jordan
Love or whether it is Malik Willis under center, the
Packers have to be able to move the ball down
field against this team. Yeah, when you think about how
Green Bay was able to get off, don't for two seconds,
(25:57):
don't think about how those games ended, But think about
it starts that they got off to against both Denver
and Chicago. It was steadily moving the football and then
hitting on explosive plays when they were coverage breakdowns. That
was especially true in the Broncos game until Vance Joseph's
defense kind of corrected some stuff in the second half.
When there's those opportunities, you have to be able to
turn those into points. And that last week, I mean,
(26:19):
who knows what that score is, who knows how things
go for Green Bay If that can play doesn't happen,
If Romeo Dobs doesn't catch that touchdown pass, that's what
broke it up there for the time in which it did.
So the Ravens have been going through it, especially with
their secondary right now. Really good defenders though when you
look at Rocon Smith as the mic of that defense,
they have edge rushers that aren't household names, but you
(26:39):
are respectable. But it's can you move the ball that's
your way you need to against this particular unit. I
think that's going to be critical, especially with the questions
now with both Josh Jacobs some of the injuries he's
been dealing with and the fact that at the time
in which they're taping this. The Packers only have one
healthy tight end on the roster and look muskrat right.
Speaker 1 (26:59):
The Packers lose John Fitzpactor to an achilles injury. Josh
Wiley missed the last game because of a concussion. We'll
see where he's at in the protocol as as this
week unfolds, if there will be another tight end to
join Musgrave, or if they'll have to elevate somebody from
the practice squad or sign somebody. Josh jacobs last carry
(27:20):
was the fumble inside the five yard line. He'd been,
you know, obviously dealing with the knee injury and everything,
and then the way things unfolded, Emmanuel Wilson was running
the ball really really well, and it just felt like
Ben Sermons and you know, the running backs coach and
Matt Leafloy just decided to ride the hot hand there.
I don't think a lot of people are running, Oh well,
did they bench Josh Jacobs because of the fumble? I
(27:41):
that doesn't seem to be the case. It wasn't a
case of a doghouse situation there because of because of
the fumble. It's that Jacobs isn't healthy and Wilson was
doing well. So so you know, stick with a week
with the guy here is producing.
Speaker 2 (27:55):
Not sirreptypologis. But remember a week earlier, many Wilson only
had two carries against him after he had you know,
the viral illness the day before the game.
Speaker 1 (28:03):
Yeah he was He went into the game sick. Yeah, yeah,
so he was healthy.
Speaker 2 (28:07):
Basically he was their only healthy option in the backfield.
As it relates to the injury report, Chris Brooks was
dealing with the chest injury too, playing through that, and
they didn't elevate Pierre Strong to the roster, didn't sign
him to the roster. It had to sort of be
them Manuel Wilson show.
Speaker 1 (28:20):
Yeah, well, all right, let's let's get uh, let's get
right into it here. As far as the keys to
victory for the Packers, I'm gonna start and I'm not
going to go back into another monologue with regard to
finishing drives, but that is what is at the top
of the list here is the Packers have to start
getting the ball back into the end zone when they're
in the red zone instead of settling for field goals
(28:41):
or putting themselves in fourth downs where you're deciding do
you go for it, do you kick, et cetera, et cetera.
But the other thing I will say, and I'll say
this whether it's Lamar Jackson or Snoop Huntley as the
quarterback for the Ravens. Defensively, the game plan needs to
be pretty similar to what it was against Caleb Williams,
which is, you've got you've got to keep these guys
(29:02):
in the pocket. You have to make them try to
beat you from the pocket, not get outside where they
have the threat with their legs. Where they get they
get a you know, a broader view of the field
to be able to uh, to be able to gas
you with throws when when they're asking, you know, the
coverage to hold up for five or six seconds and
you know somebody's going to break free. So the containing
(29:24):
the quarterback in the pocket, whichever quarterback it is for
Baltimore to me, is another one at the top of
the list of keys to victy.
Speaker 2 (29:30):
Yeah, Green May has to do a better job of
that than they did against Chicago. By and large, they
were able to contain.
Speaker 1 (29:37):
I thought there were a couple of drives where they
let him, they let him get out and and and
he made him pay that's when he threw the ball.
Speaker 2 (29:42):
So dang well, yep, And there was a couple that
he made late that I give him credit for that
he put the ball in there from the pocket. But
but when you talk about how he built a rhythm,
it was everything you and I talked about coming off
the first game. Him rolling out, particularly rolling right.
Speaker 1 (29:55):
It's almost like.
Speaker 2 (29:56):
When remember when Jordan Love gets to hop in his steps.
Sometimes when he's in the pocket, you're like, Okay, this
guy's gonna refurl one here. Yeah, that's what it kind
of looks like when Caleb Williams kind of is able
to get out, escape the pressure, allow the plays to develop.
I agree with you. And when you say finished drives,
I talk about finishing games. I think when you look
at the Packers in the Baltimore Ravens both coming up
short last week, it's because they didn't finish games and
(30:17):
they bolt didn't finish games without their starting quarterback. That sucks.
Sorry about that, Yeah, but you still have to find
a way forward and they let it go. So whoever
finishes this game better, whoever plays well in the fourth quarter,
regardless of what happens in the first three quarters, Who's
going to be who prevails. I'll also say the Packers
need to protect your quarterback, whether it's Love, whether it's Willis.
(30:40):
You got to keep that thing clean for him. When
you look at the big plays the last few weeks
in which the defenses sort of capitalize on green Bay,
it's when the quarterback's been under pressure and then unfortunately
also Willo is getting banged up a little bit at
the end of regulation. You got to keep that thing clean.
Baltimore has a diverse pass r I don't think they
(31:00):
have a guy in the roster with more than three
and a half sacks. They are gonna throw it in
waves and they're gonna try to simulate those pressures. They're
gonna try to create some chaos there to throw you
off tilt with your offensive front. Green Bay has to
stay disciplined in that way, and they have to execute
the big plays and the explosive plays when they're available.
Speaker 1 (31:17):
Yeah, and I like what you said about finishing games
because because we have seen this Packers team in twenty
twenty five be very much jeckle and hide when it
comes to crunch time. I mean, we saw this team,
you know, I mean they execute, they execute and convert
(31:38):
the massive fourth down at the end of the game
in Detroit on Thanksgiving to get a huge win. You
go back the week before that, you have gotta have
it touchdown drive against the Giants late in the fourth quarter.
You get it, and then the defense gets the interception
to seal the game. That's crunched time play. The first
(32:00):
game against the Bears, the Bears had rallied and tied
the game, Jordan Love put together a drive. You go
down the field, you get the go ahead touchdown, and
then what do you do on the other end, You
get the interception that seals it. That's crunch time football.
But by the same token we have seen We've seen
this team, you know, blow the multi score leads late
(32:23):
against Cleveland and now against the Bears. Where the crunch time,
the crunch time execution on both sides of the ball,
all three phases, if you want to call it, that
wasn't there. And yeah, this you know you mentioned before
and I'm going on a little bit of a tangent here,
but you mentioned before about how you know this Packers
(32:45):
team hasn't been handled by anybody you look at. I
believe and you can correct me if I'm wrong. I
believe the Packers have only been down by more than
one score once all season, and it was against Arizonas
on the road, and they actually then were able to
come back and win that game. Because the other largest
(33:07):
deficit that they have faced was the eight points against Denver,
which technically is one possession because you can get a
touchdown on a two point conversion to tie the score.
So you haven't faced You've only faced one multi score
deficit all season, but yet you've let a couple of
multi score leads late in the game get away, and
that's why you're sitting here at nine to five and
(33:28):
one instead of in a better position to win the
NFC North than looking at the upper seeds as opposed
to just hey, all right, one more win and get
a wild card and then see how it falls. So
that's that's kind of where they are.
Speaker 2 (33:40):
Yeah, it's an excellent point, Mike. I look at Green
Bay right now as a team that should probably be
sitting on eleven wins this season.
Speaker 1 (33:47):
Yeah, and it is what it is.
Speaker 2 (33:49):
So but but the other aspect of it too, that
that I look for in this matchup that is just
going to be incredible to watch and see exactly how
this plays out is every team has dealt with injuries,
every team has dealt with adversity. Talked about the Tampa
Bay Buccaneers, the free fall that they've been on and
now they're behind Caroline after being a team that looked
like was going to be not just a division champion,
(34:09):
but potentially an NFC favorite. The season takes different courses
in different turns, and you have to be able to
adjust to that throughout the course of the year. I
think green Bay Buy and Large has done a good
job that all the frustrations are based on what was
still left out there for them. Yes, and when you
think back to last year, and I love that you
brought this up because one of the areas I felt
(34:30):
like Green Bay was great in. And then generally speaking
they've been really good in this under Matt la floor.
But specifically last year was when Josh Jacobs had that
breakout year. Their for minuted offense was so good it's
probably the best I've ever covered. They could drain the
clock with their offense, and this year they've not been
able to do that. They've had too many three and
outs in the second half. There's been too many times
(34:51):
where there's been a turnover things of that nature. Green
Bay's had to have some hero plays like the Dantavian
Wicks wanted to get out of that situation and to
try yep, and some gutsy calls from Matt Lafloor, but
they haven't been able to drain the clock the same way.
That is going to have to change, And regardless of
how Josh Jacobs is feeling, if it's not Josh, it's
gonna have to be Manuelson. The Packers have to find
(35:12):
a way to shorten these games. And another huge test
lies in front of them in the Baltimore Ravens, because
the Ravens are going to be looking to really turn
this thing up.
Speaker 1 (35:22):
I'm guessing yeah, the Ravens have everything on the line
in this one on Saturday Night. One last thing before
we go, just taking a look at the other games
that would have some implications related to the Packers as
far as Week seventeen starts right away on Thursday. On
Christmas Day, Detroit is at Minnesota. If Minnesota can actually
(35:43):
beat the Lions and give the Lions a third straight loss,
the Packers would clinch their playoff spot before they even
play on Saturday. Now, if the Lions win, then the
Packers would still need to get one more win to
make the playoffs. But I mean, this one kind of
all hinges on whether JJ McCarthy plays or if the
Vikings have to turn to Max Brosmer, whose first career
(36:07):
start earlier this season in Seattle was about as big
a disasters as you know I think I've seen in
the NFL this year, quite frankly. So we'll see what
happens there, But gives Packers fans something to root for
on Christmas Day. You root for the Vikings to knock
off the Lions.
Speaker 2 (36:24):
Yeah, my thought on this would be and if Brozemer plays,
Brosmer plays, I think then Brosman should play the rest
of the year. To be honest with you, I think
I mean if JJ McCarthy like this JJ McCarthy thing man,
like the ankle injury that took him out for four weeks,
it's like, Okay, are we healthy are we not healthy?
Speaker 1 (36:41):
Yeah?
Speaker 2 (36:41):
I mean I get that you're injured, but are you
healthy or not healthy? It always comes back to that.
So if he doesn't go against the Lions, I think
that would be an interesting decision then for him suddenly
to play against Green Bay and what for them wouldn't
be a meaningful game. So we'll see exactly how that
shakes out. But yeah, it'll be it'll be interesting. It's
gonna be interesting to see how the Lions bounce back
(37:01):
because that was a devastating loss. I don't think I
know A lot was made in their locker room afterwards
about the two opis on the final possession, and I joked,
I wrote this an inbox and I took it out.
But it's like, I've watched enough Amen Ross Saint Brown football,
oh to know that that's offensive pass interference. Yes, is
the way the guy plays the position.
Speaker 1 (37:20):
Yes, it is what it is.
Speaker 2 (37:22):
So he got called on it. You know again, sometimes
he eat the bear, sometimes the bear eats you. It
didn't work out. I think the crazy thing about it
was the fact that that play didn't get blown dead
right away. That actually let that was ability happen.
Speaker 1 (37:35):
That was the crazy thing to me is that is
that Carl Scheffer's crew both of those offensive pass interference
calls at the end of the game, they got him right.
Speaker 2 (37:45):
They got them right.
Speaker 1 (37:45):
And the first one, which was on the pick play
over on the right side, of the field. They had
called the Steelers for exactly the same thing, which forced
the Steelers earlier in the second half to kick a
field goal as opposed to getting a touchdown. So they
then they did call it on the Lions with the
game on the line. The Aman Ross Saint Brown shove
off was like as obvious as it gets. And you
know the way he plays the game and how we
(38:09):
have seen against the Packers but against other teams as well.
At crunch time, he feels like he's just gonna get
away with it, that they're not going to throw the flag.
So he did it again at the goal line. You
just shoved the guy out of the way. Credit to
Scheffer's crew, they threw the flag, but they completely botched
the fact that that play should not have been ruled
(38:29):
a touchdown that needed to be nullified by the penalty,
because my gosh, they had it. They had the forward
progress was stopped for like five seconds, four yards and supposedly,
I mean, and that's the thing, and again we don't
have time to go off on this big tangent. But
as you just said, they shoved him back like four
(38:50):
yards before he laterals the ball to the quarterback. But
if the defender had like slammed him to the ground
to make sure the play was over, it's fifteens, you know,
we're half the distance, and then they're gonna get an
untimed down with no time on the clock. I mean,
what do the officials want here? Are you gonna let
the play go? But then you're gonna let the play
(39:12):
go that shouldn't go. But then if the def if
you're making the defense slam the guy on the ground
to make sure that the play is over, You're gonna
flag him for a personal file. Like the NFL has
got it, and I gotta stop because otherwise I'm gonna
go off and our producer Hannah is going to say
the show is way too long. The NFL has got
to get a handle on what they want to do
with their officials here. It's getting ridiculous. And that play,
(39:33):
that last play of the Lion Steelers game was as
ridiculous as it gets.
Speaker 2 (39:37):
Yeah, and it just even be in that position, h again,
it just there was so much of that game, Mike,
I'm watching, So I promised I was not gonna watch
that game.
Speaker 1 (39:47):
I actually said I couldn't turn I couldn't turn away
when I saw the highlight when I saw the highlight
of Kenneth Gainwell making that catch because I didn't see
it live, but when I saw the highlight of Gainwell
making that catch on the ground at the end of
the first half and getting up and going into the
end zone to get the game tied at halftime for
the Steelers, I was like, because I was actually at
(40:07):
my desk and I was finishing up some work on Sunday,
and then I was like, all right, I got to
go home and watch the second half now because this
game is tied. So I did, and then I just
got all worked up about the officiating at the end.
Speaker 2 (40:19):
And I just there was something about coming off of
that Packers game that it was too raw for me.
I mean, if the Lions would have found a way
to win that would have been a really hard one
to see.
Speaker 1 (40:26):
Oh but.
Speaker 2 (40:29):
The fact is they didn't. The fact is is that
Aaron Rodgers, Kenneth Gainwell, who I give a lot of
credit for, I mean the way that he has kind
of rescued his career and found second life in Pittsburgh,
And it was these games always go down to the wire,
it feels like, and in that particular case, the Steelers
did the Packers a huge favor and now we'll find
(40:50):
out on Saturday night if the Packers can pay their
old friend Aaron Rodgers back as well.
Speaker 1 (40:54):
Yeah, Aaron Rodgers, who's throwing the ball the Mark wez
Veldez scantling, Adam Thielen and Sky Miller to keep the
Pittsburgh Steelers and his and with his number one receiver
now suspended for two games and probably you know, out
until a potential playoff game. I want to get your
thoughts on a couple other things. And I know we're
going really overtime here, but Philadelphia at Buffalo a very
(41:16):
interesting game in week seventeen. The Eagles, they've already clinched
the NFC East, but they're jockeying for the seating position.
And and the Buffalo Bills a real dangerous team obviously.
And then on Sunday night football Chicago at San Francisco.
San Francisco, to me, is the most dangerous team right
now that nobody's talking about. And if you're from the Packers' perspective,
(41:41):
here's the thing. Beat the Ravens on Saturday night. Cheer
for the Niners to beat the Bears on Sunday night,
and the Packers go into Week eighteen with a chance
to still win the division. So you know that it's
it's one way to look at it.
Speaker 2 (41:56):
Yes, you are one hundred percent right. You also are
going to have a Detroit Lions team with absolutely nothing
to play for in that finale, but you are right,
maybe they can do it for pride.
Speaker 1 (42:06):
Dan Campbell would never let a team roll over. I'll
just say that I know that they are and they're
banged up is all get out.
Speaker 2 (42:12):
But but but I'm trying to be with you on
that one, okay, because other people have brought this up too. Well,
if the Packers went out and the Bears lose out,
I'm like, yeah, but by the Packers winning out, that
also makes Week eighteen meaningless for the for the Lions.
But they've they've come through before. They did it against
the Packers a couple of years ago, so sure did.
But all that being said, like this is what we're
(42:33):
learning now about the Chicago Bears. They are facing a
gauntlet of really strong football teams, and brock Purty is
healthy again. Brock Purty was exceptional against Indianapolis. I mean,
he was surgical the way that he tore apart that
Colts defense. This looks to me again, it's just the
way these things go with Kyle Shanahan's teams. Some years
(42:54):
they're healthy, some years they're not. But my goodness, when
they're healthy and things are clicking, and typically it feels
like if it's a odd year, they're off and running.
And that west Man when you look at Seahawks rams
forty nine Ers and it's probably gonna take thirteen wins
to come out with that division title and that number
one seed.
Speaker 1 (43:13):
And the Seahawks and forty nine Ers play each other
in the finale in Week eighteen, too.
Speaker 2 (43:18):
All to play for it. Yeah, but yeah, go go
forty nine Ers and see where it takes you.
Speaker 1 (43:23):
Yeah. All right, well I think we covered it all
in a rambling sort of way. Yea episode and yeah
we went off on various tangents. Thanks for handing with us, folks.
Speaker 2 (43:34):
This is not the week got you know, thankfully it's Christmas.
I'm excited for it, but this was not the week
to have to like try to compartmentalize everything into world.
Speaker 1 (43:41):
Yes, I know so much stuff that now there's too much,
too much, But we managed to get through.
Speaker 2 (43:47):
I never even got around complaining about how a taunting
penalty can help get you thrown out of the game.
But if you have two roughing the passer, I know
twenty one minutes, you're fine.
Speaker 1 (43:55):
Right, And I know and I and I skipped and
I skipped that part because I wasn't even to get
into these And then we started talking about the Lions game,
and you got it. I got going on the officials again.
Speaker 2 (44:04):
So don't don't do this. You'll be won away from
a disqualification. But if I throw my forehead into your chin, Michael.
Speaker 1 (44:13):
Or a forearm shiver into a sliding quarterback, you know,
and at fifteen yards, but yeah, you're you're good. You
can continue your head hunting.
Speaker 2 (44:22):
Player safety eighteen regular season games.
Speaker 1 (44:24):
All right, we are going to call it a rap
on this edition of Packers Unscript. We'd be sure to
follow all of our coverage of Saturday nights big game
from lambeau Field, Packers and Ravens. We will have it
all for you on Packers dot com for Wes, I
am Mike. Thank you for tuning in, and Merry Christmas everybody.
We will see you next time.
Hi, everybody. Welcome to another edition of Packers Unscripted from
Packers dot Com. I am Mike Spafford, joined as always
by my trusted colleague West Hodkoitz. We're coming to you
here from our studios at lambeau Field, Wes to discuss
a rough one twenty two to sixteen overtime loss to
Chicago on Saturday night at Soldier Field. I don't know
(00:29):
how exactly to break this down, and we got a
lot of ground to cover in this show because with
Thursday being the holiday this week, we're actually kind of
doing a two for one here. We're gonna do one
show this week, review the last game, preview the next one.
Get it all in right here in one episode. But
man Malik Willis balled out. The defense had a tremendous debut,
(00:55):
sort of the debut without Micah Parsons for twenty twenty five,
and then it just all unraveled in the last few
minutes and a lot of really really good work and
a lot of really good football by the Packers just
went by the wayside.
Speaker 2 (01:08):
Yeah, And unfortunately for Green Bay, this has just been
a story that we've heard at various times this season
where the Packers have played really good football for two
and a half, for three quarters, and then a game
just gets away from them. Right. That's what happened with Cleveland.
To a certain extent, that's what happened with Carolina. When
you look at the game against Denver, things are tracking
(01:28):
in the right direction midway through the early in the
third quarter, and then things fall apart. So number of
levels to look at this. First and foremost, I do
tip my cap to the Chicago Bears. You have to
show that respect. That is a very talented football team.
It's not an accident that they take away the football
the way that they do their physicality. I thought the
(01:51):
alignment on the on side kick that they recovered was tremendous.
The kick by Santos was great. Santos was maybe the
MVP of this game with how he handled those condition
giving the Bears a shot to stay within arms reach
a Green Bay. But from the Packers' standpoint, it was this,
you know, multiple issues that all flared up for them
(02:14):
in the fourth quarter, execution alignment mistakes that led to
a really devastating loss. When you look at a game
in which Michael, you know, the Packers move ahead sixteen
to six with five h three left in the fourth quarter.
I don't think anybody was packing in the bags at all.
But you are, with Chicago sitting on two timeouts at
(02:36):
that point, you're thinking to yourself, Okay, the Packers just
got to keep playing the way they have here for
the first fifty five minutes and they'll be able to
get out of Chicago with a huge victory and kind
of in control their own destiny as it relates to
the division. And it doesn't happen. Caleb Williams made some
magnificent throws. The Packers made some key errors, some key breakdowns.
(02:57):
Unfortunately defensively, as good as they were, there was some
explosives late and again you do you look at what
Caleb Williams did, and Packers have a They get Brenton
Cox Junior directly in front of Williams a free rusher
fourth and four, yep, and Williams makes a tremendous throw
to you know, Walker and.
Speaker 1 (03:18):
And it's on a coverage bus to coverage bus. It's
a great throw and a great catch, but it's a
much much tougher catch to make if it's contested with
a defender also in the corner. And there was the
miscommunication whatever it is that happened with the Packers two
corners there, Hobbs and Nixon, they both went with one
receiver and they left the second receiver open. You know.
(03:39):
But that again, as you said, that's just one of
one of a litany of mistakes. I mean, I think
the most the most depressing thing about this loss. Not
only did it put the Chicago Bears in complete control
of the NFC North now with a game and a
half lead over Green Bay with two games to go,
(04:01):
but that the way things it unfolded everything that the
Packers had gone through the previous week. You know, you
lose Micah Parsons. You're going into this game without Zach
Tom and without Evan Williams, and you're making all of
these adjustments, and then you lose Jordan Love to the
concussion in the second quarter, and Malik Willis comes in
(04:21):
and he's moving the team, and yeah, they're failing in
the red zone, but they're putting points on the board.
The defense is staying in control everything that you're dealing with,
all this adversity that the Packers are looking like they
have overcome it and they are on the verge of
what was going to be the most significant and most
uplifting victory of the entire season, hands down, and then
(04:44):
in sort of a blink of an eye, it turns
from that into the most devastating loss of the season
because of how it unfolds. There's never there's, in my opinion,
there's never any loss in this league more frustrating than
when you lose because you don't recover an on side kick, right,
because it just you give the other team back to
(05:05):
back possessions. And the Bears took advantage of that, got
the points they needed to get the game to overtime,
and once it got to overtime, it was it was
anybody's game. And Malik Willis unfortunately his tremendous performance in
those conditions coming off the bench, He's hardly played this year.
Aside from that one drive against the New York Giants.
(05:25):
His wonderful performance is ruined by the fumbled snap on
fourth and one in overtime. Just you know, there was
something that happened in every phase along the way that
contributed to it, and now it's just all about, Okay,
it's another big pile of adversity in front of you, Right,
can the Packers plow through it. Can they overcome it?
(05:48):
They still can make the playoffs with one more victory
or one loss by the Detroit Lions. They still could
win the division with two wins and two losses by
the Bears, which is not out of the realm of
possibility given that the Bears are playing a red hot
forty nine Ers team coming up this week. But the
bottom line is the Packers are fighting for their playoff lives.
(06:10):
They will be facing a team on Saturday night at
Lambe Field doing exactly the same thing in the Baltimore Ravens,
fighting for their playoff lives. Can the Packers overcome yet
another snowball in the face of adversity that they have
fate that they have run into in these last couple
of weeks.
Speaker 2 (06:27):
I was like an ice It's like an ice ball
of adversity, right, yeah, listen. So first and foremost, I
wish I should have just brought in a printed out
sheet of paper. I wish I could just read your
reply to one of the questions from Insider Inbox on
Monday asking about you know, everything that happened, who to blame?
Speaker 1 (06:44):
Basically, and yeah, everybody, everybody wants some everybody wants somebody
to blame and they want they they want it to
be they want it to be simple. They wanted to say,
it's this guy's fault. It's it's Romeo Dobb's fault, or
it's Josh Jacob's fault because he fumbled inside the five
yard line, or it's the coach fault or this or that,
And you can't try to simplify it. If you try
(07:05):
to simplify it, you're you're doing the whole situation and injustice.
That that was essentially the point I was trying to make.
Speaker 2 (07:12):
And and what I love though, Okay, so, and I
want to talk about Jordan Love here in a second too.
But what I love about this game is that it
articulates some lingering issues for Green Bay. But it also
showed again Packers have not been blown out by any
opponent this year. They've played with everybody this team, whether
Micah parss is on the field, Tucker Craft, DeVante why
(07:34):
and all these guys, whether they're there or not, the
Packers can compete with anybody. And it's why should they
make it to the playoffs here? And I know the
percentage chances that are very high, but should they make it.
They need to get that next last little tick to
get that spot. Yeah, the Packers are a formidable opponent
for anybody that they're going to face. This is what
(07:55):
I like about it. They're going to have a chance.
When they use that analogy about you know, they have
the pen, they write their own story. That's never been
more true. The issues that they've had, the games that
they've lost this season, they're going to have a chance
to rectify all that, and if they don't, their season
will be over right, either by the end of the
regular season or in the postseason. The Packers control all
(08:16):
of this still. Yeah, the division's out of hand, But
the fact is is that out of their hand. I
should say it's not controllable. But the Packers have been
able to face the Philadelphia Eagles, the Denver Broncos, that
the Bears twice, they beat the Lions twice, and they
can do it. They definitely can do it. The maddening
(08:38):
part about it is that they find themselves in this
situation that they're in because of the times in which
they haven't produced. And that's been red zone, that's been
untimely turnovers, it's been not taking the ball away when
they've had opportunities, something they did very well last season.
And that's why we go into this game Baltimore on
(09:00):
Saturday night with the stakes being what they are. The
Packers have to figure out here and it's going to
be fascinating to watch down the stretch. Now, Okay, you
guys have they did not punt in this game. Second
time the season they've lost the game in which they
(09:21):
haven't punted. Yeah, and I saw there was a stat
from somebody. The other eight teams that have done that
this year, they're eight. No, okay, and there were turnovers,
there are other things that.
Speaker 1 (09:29):
And the Packers have had one game where they only
had one punt and they also lost that game.
Speaker 2 (09:35):
But what stinks is that the Josh Jacobs FUMBLELL talk
about that tough play, right, Yeah, the Bears get the ball,
the Packers give up one run and then the defense
holds them. They have to punt, and the Packers are
able to come back. The Packers goal for it fourth
(09:56):
and goal on their first possession, don't.
Speaker 1 (09:59):
Get it and one on the seven.
Speaker 2 (10:01):
Yeah, yeah, don't get it. Bears go all the way
down the field. They go for it on fourth down,
don't get it. There was so much you know, sudden
change and adversity, defense and different things that played a
factor into Green Bay having the lead that they did.
It was just a shame to see that fall apart
late and then obviously the on side kick giving the
(10:24):
Bear's second life. There's just in the last few days
that I've been just trying to like encapsulate this in
my mind, and the fact that the Lions end up
losing as well to the Steelers.
Speaker 1 (10:34):
So yeah, it all sort of.
Speaker 2 (10:35):
Ended up being a push, so to speak, other than
the fact of the division ramifications of that loss. It's
just it's a weird thing. And to watch Malik Willis
go back out there throw the ball really well. I
thought that was one of his best performances in terms
of just naturally throwing the football in addition to creating
some plays with his feet too.
Speaker 1 (10:54):
A touchdown pass to Romeo Dobbs was an absolute beauty
and it was a play that he can't he can
to that route at the line of scrimmage, he saw
the defense, you know, made that adjustment on the fly
and then put the ball right on the money. That
was sort of what made up for the Josh Jacobs fumble,
because then the Packers did get the touchdown on their
next drive to go ahead by ten points. You know,
(11:16):
et cetera, et cetera. It still felt like, all right,
you know, they're they're in good shape here. But at
the end of the day, you still look back at
going zero for five in the red zone and and like,
how many points did you leave out there?
Speaker 2 (11:28):
The frustrating thing about that too, is in the last
time that they settled for the field go with McManus,
that was the Packers. Yes, you want to get the touchdown,
but they just needed points at that point.
Speaker 1 (11:37):
Yeah, you're just yeah, you're trying to just make it
a two score game again.
Speaker 2 (11:40):
That's what you're looking for, absolutely, But to still start
the game where it's turnover on downs and then two
more field goals and you're for the second straight week,
you're looking at a six to nothing lead. When people
do this thing and fans do this thing, of all,
we should take the points. Well, the problem with taking
the points, especially in a fourth and one where you
have a chance to convert and then still have the
(12:00):
goal to go opportunity. Yeah, the problem with taking those
points in that situation is if you do that twice,
not only did you end up basically fumbling away a touchdown,
you don't get the extra point either. So that's why
teams do this. It's just it comes down execution. The
Packers didn't have enough of it. In many ways, they
did what they had to do to win this game,
but ultimately, when it came down to it, this is
(12:23):
why the Bears won.
Speaker 1 (12:24):
Yeah, and I want to shift gears to the Ravens,
and we need to talk about what the Packers need
to do to get back on the winning track and
get things going in the right direction again. But you know,
when I look back at these last two games, as
the Packers have gone from nine to three and one
and looking like, okay, if you're really rolling here, you've
got a shot maybe even at the number one seed
(12:44):
in the NFC, et cetera, et cetera. But now you've
lost two games in a row, both of which you
had two score leads in the second half on the road,
you let them get away. So you've gone from nine
to three and one to nine to five in one
You want, you can talk about you can talk about
the injuries in game during the week, whatever, and all
(13:07):
this other stuff that the Packers have had to overcome.
The single biggest reason the Packers have lost these last
two games is because they're one for nine in the
red zone. There is nothing else to point to because
for everything, the injuries and maybe and some turnovers and
this and that and the on side kick, whatever the
(13:29):
opportunities that they have let get away on offense, the
points they have left out there by going only one
for nine, only one touchdown in their last nine trips
into the red zone. That is why they have lost
two games in a row. And I don't care if
next Saturday Night's opponent is the Baltimore Ravens or the
uw Plattville Pioneers. The Packers have to figure out how
(13:51):
to get the ball back into the end zone. Because
prior to the Denver game, Green Bay was number two
in the league in red zone offensive conversions, number two
in the league, and in two weeks they have gone
from second in the league in red zone offense to fourteenth.
They have gone from one of the best teams in
the league to the middle of the pack in a
(14:13):
span of two games. That is the biggest thing that
needs to change for the Packers to get this thing
back going in the right direction.
Speaker 2 (14:21):
Yeah, now you're one thousand percent right. And the fact
that they still are number one and third down offense
despite facing a really good third down defense in Denver.
That's been the situational components of this game is where
ultimately all that execution is what leads to points or
lack thereof. In the last few weeks, there just hasn't
been enough of it. Josh Jacobs has been banged up,
(14:43):
you know, Romeo Dobbs had a couple of quiet performances.
He's typically been one of the huge red zone targets.
The Packers have had all these injuries, specifically at the
tight end position that they've been working through. So there's
been adversity that they've faced. But at the end of
the day, you still have to find a way to
punch that thing in if I may. Before we go
over to the Ravens too, I have to say, I mean,
(15:04):
the other tragedy of this game is that Green Bay
had to finish it without Jordan Love and that's a
huge shift, right, And when you're talking about where green
Bay was, you know, trying to find its rhythm kind
of like it was against the Giants last month, and
then you take number ten out because of Austin Booker's hit,
and we can get into that or not get into that.
(15:25):
That's up to you. But the fact is is that
for the Packers to put in a quarterback like Malik
he Malik Willis, excuse me, he has to go in
in that situation cold having thrown a five passes this
whole season, it was, and runs the offense that efficiently.
I mean the guy is just absolutely cold blooded, right,
(15:47):
I mean, he just his his temperament is exactly like
Jordan loves just no flinch, doesn't blink and looks for
that opportunity. I always say this. It goes back to
that playoff game in Arizona for me twenty fifteen where
you had the Janis Hail Mary. So many things happen
and then the Packers lose it on an explosive play
to Larry Fitzercherscherld. This is one of those games that
(16:09):
when I was in the locker room, aphorism like this
doesn't make any sense how this game played out, because
even the hero Romeo Dobbs, who had four catches for
fifty one yards in the first quarter alone, to get
the offense move in has that beautiful over the shoulder
touchdown from Malik Willis. Then unfortunately he has the issue
there on the on site kick. Nothing lined up narrative
(16:29):
wise of how it should have how it felt like
it should have in this game, and the Packers ended
up with a loss.
Speaker 1 (16:35):
I'm gonna say one more thing to backtrack on something,
and I'm gonna make this comment an insider inbox as well,
because you and I are hearing it a lot from
people who who keep going back to that opening drive
of the game, fourth and one on the seven, you're
on the road, just you know, take the points and whatever.
And I understand the argument, and I'm not saying I'm
not saying that it's totally clear cut what you do.
(16:56):
But when you go when you go all the way
back to the beginning of the game and you say, well,
if the Packers had those three points, like you know,
they would have won or you know this, and that
it's like that decision. If the Packers kick the field
goal there to go up three to nothing, if the
Bears are in that same I mean, if the score
is three to nothing, maybe Ben Johnson kicks the field
(17:16):
goal as well and ties the game three to three
instead of going for it exactly. So I mean, you know,
Johnson probably goes for it on fourth and one, still
on the Wildcat snap to Kyle Mnungai. But if he doesn't,
and because the Packers are up three to nothing, if
he's like, all right, I'm just going to kick the
field goal, get the game tied after one possession each,
and keep playing, well, then three to three is the
(17:38):
same as zero to zero. So you can't. You can't
sit there and say that not taking the points on
the opening drive of the game like decided something somehow,
because because it didn't, you know, there was there were
still fifty three minutes left of football to play after that.
So I just you have to you have to step
back and look at everything from the big picture and
(18:00):
not not focus on something on one decision that was
so early in the game that it would have had
this massive effect on how everything else had played out.
So I just wanted to say that that's great. Yeah,
But before I get lost in this two for one
episode and we shift gears here to the Baltimore Ravens,
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All Right Wes Saturday Night lambeau Field yet another Saturday
Nights all Right for fighting in the NFL. The Baltimore Ravens.
They're coming off of a very frustrating loss on their part.
(19:32):
Sunday Night Football. They lose at home to the New
England Patriots. After leading twenty four to thirteen in the
fourth quarter. Wasn't exactly the same type of collapse that
the Packers suffered, but nonetheless a tough loss for the
Ravens that has now dropped them to seven and eight.
They are two games behind the Pittsburgh Steelers in the
(19:53):
AFC North, the Steelers sitting at nine and six after
a very helpful win, a win that helped Green Bay
with Steelers and Aaron Rodgers knocking off the Detroit Lions
at Ford Field, So the Ravens are up against it.
And as we go into this not knowing and at
(20:13):
the time we're taping this episode, we haven't really gotten
an update on where Jordan Love is with the concussion protocol,
where Malik Willis is with his shoulder that got hurt
on the sack on the final play of regulation before
overtime at Soldier Field. The Ravens also lost Lamar Jackson
to a bruised back in the Sunday night game against
(20:34):
New England. Tyler Huntley came in and finished that game.
So for both teams here things very much up in
the air in terms of where things are at with
the quarterback position, and quite Frankly, we may not know
a whole heck of a lot for either team until
ninety minutes before kickoff on Saturday. I mean, who knows here.
Speaker 2 (20:56):
Yeah, it's probably the biggest question mark I think I've
ever seen my time of the beat as it relates
to both football teams heading into a game backup quarterbacks.
Because it's not just love in Lamar Jackson, right, it
is the Malik Willis component to this too, injuring his
shoulder there at the end of regulation, and kudos him
playing through it. Had the thirty one yard completion to
(21:16):
Jaden Reid really toughed it out for a Packers team
at that at that point does not have an emergency
quarterback available Clayton Tunes on practice squad, so it's not
like they could have activated anybody else. Yeah, Yeah, it's
The Baltimore game is gonna be fascinating for a couple
of reasons. One, this is a team that has been
a total world beater at times this year. Again, much
(21:38):
like Green Bay, feels like they can play with anybody,
beat anybody, but defensively have had their struggles this season.
Lamar Jackson has had his injuries and they've had to
solely adapt. I think the one thing that's been cool
to see from an outside looking in and I wrote
about this an insider inbox. I think Tyler Huntley fits
(21:58):
exactly what they do really well. I've never understood why
he hasn't just been anointed the Doug Peterson backup there.
Speaker 1 (22:06):
I totally agree with you.
Speaker 2 (22:08):
He when he left for Cleveland. It's not like he
went and signed a one year, ten million dollar deal.
He left for like a million and a half dollars.
Like I think in his career, Tyler Huntley's made like
seven million dollars for like five seasons. He has gone
to a Pro Bowl though, too. I have to throw
that in there, Pro Bowl, Michael Parson's congrats.
Speaker 1 (22:25):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (22:25):
But the fact is that they have all the type
of talent to compete. I mean, Derrick Henry is still
a force. When you saw the statistic this week, you know,
his another twelve touchdown rushing year for him, over twelve
hundred yards receiving. They just extended Mark Andrews save Flowers,
(22:46):
you know, a tough ending to that game against the Patriots.
But the fact is he's a thousand yard receiver for them.
He's become their their wide receiver, one that they've been
searching for for so long, to run alongside Lamar Jackson.
So this is not easy. This is not going to
be a fun game here for green Bay, regardless of
who's at quarterback. And John Harbaughs as savvy as they
(23:06):
come as far as National Football League head coaches, so
a supreme challenge for Green Bay. But at the end
of the day, this is an opponent that the Packers
have to get past to get to their goals. They
have not executed in these interconference games, intraconference games as
well as they did last season right against the AFC.
They have to win this football game.
Speaker 1 (23:27):
Yeah, absolutely. The thing that stood out to me watching
and I did watch a fair amount of the Sunday
night game with when the Ravens lost to the Patriots,
because you know, you and I had talked about it
earlier in the season on the show. You know, the
other sort of other implications that we follow, and this
just hasn't been the typical Baltimore Ravens defense that we've
(23:50):
been used to seeing. But what stood out to me
as the Patriots were making the fourth quarter comeback because
they were up again, I mean twenty four to thirteen
on the road. You know, the Patriots were kind of
up against it there and they're fighting with the Broncos
for the one seed in the AFC and all that.
As the Ravens defense kind of crumbled in the fourth quarter.
(24:13):
They were getting pressure on Drake maybe the Patriots quarterup,
they were getting pressure on him consistently and May just
kept delivering against that pressure because the Ravens coverage could
not hold up and they even caught a break when
you know, the guy on the deep ball just gets
tackled and they don't even throw the pass interference flag.
I mean, that was just a horrible defensive coverage play
(24:34):
and they got away with it. But this this Ravens
team has had has had coverage issues, and they seem
to have found something. They lost Matdabuicke to the neck
injury earlier in the year, their defense took a step
back from a pass rush standpoint. It seems that that
pass rush has started to find something a little bit
(24:54):
more lately. Whether it's going to be Lover or Willis
under center on Saturday night, the Packers have to be
ready for that kind of pressure and to be able
to deliver from the quarterback position under pressure. But the
opportunities will be there because the Ravens have not been
a great coverage team downfield, and that's where the Packers
are going to have to take advantage.
Speaker 2 (25:13):
It is. The statistics for the Ravens are really something
else to look at, because if you just look at
total yards, in total passing and even to some extent,
points allowed, not good. It's been a rough year for them.
But they're thirteenth against the run, they're seventh against on
third downs, they're sixth in red zone, they're fourth and
goal to go, and as you said, I mean they generate.
(25:35):
I think their pass rush numbers and their pressure numbers
have been better in the second half of the season
than they were early on, which has allowed them to
kind of recompose themselves a little bit. But this is
a game, and this is an opponent that the Packers
have to be able to throw against. Whether it's Jordan
Love or whether it is Malik Willis under center, the
Packers have to be able to move the ball down
field against this team. Yeah, when you think about how
Green Bay was able to get off, don't for two seconds,
(25:57):
don't think about how those games ended, But think about
it starts that they got off to against both Denver
and Chicago. It was steadily moving the football and then
hitting on explosive plays when they were coverage breakdowns. That
was especially true in the Broncos game until Vance Joseph's
defense kind of corrected some stuff in the second half.
When there's those opportunities, you have to be able to
turn those into points. And that last week, I mean,
(26:19):
who knows what that score is, who knows how things
go for Green Bay If that can play doesn't happen,
If Romeo Dobs doesn't catch that touchdown pass, that's what
broke it up there for the time in which it did.
So the Ravens have been going through it, especially with
their secondary right now. Really good defenders though when you
look at Rocon Smith as the mic of that defense,
they have edge rushers that aren't household names, but you
(26:39):
are respectable. But it's can you move the ball that's
your way you need to against this particular unit. I
think that's going to be critical, especially with the questions
now with both Josh Jacobs some of the injuries he's
been dealing with and the fact that at the time
in which they're taping this. The Packers only have one
healthy tight end on the roster and look muskrat right.
Speaker 1 (26:59):
The Packers lose John Fitzpactor to an achilles injury. Josh
Wiley missed the last game because of a concussion. We'll
see where he's at in the protocol as as this
week unfolds, if there will be another tight end to
join Musgrave, or if they'll have to elevate somebody from
the practice squad or sign somebody. Josh jacobs last carry
(27:20):
was the fumble inside the five yard line. He'd been,
you know, obviously dealing with the knee injury and everything,
and then the way things unfolded, Emmanuel Wilson was running
the ball really really well, and it just felt like
Ben Sermons and you know, the running backs coach and
Matt Leafloy just decided to ride the hot hand there.
I don't think a lot of people are running, Oh well,
did they bench Josh Jacobs because of the fumble? I
(27:41):
that doesn't seem to be the case. It wasn't a
case of a doghouse situation there because of because of
the fumble. It's that Jacobs isn't healthy and Wilson was
doing well. So so you know, stick with a week
with the guy here is producing.
Speaker 2 (27:55):
Not sirreptypologis. But remember a week earlier, many Wilson only
had two carries against him after he had you know,
the viral illness the day before the game.
Speaker 1 (28:03):
Yeah he was He went into the game sick. Yeah, yeah,
so he was healthy.
Speaker 2 (28:07):
Basically he was their only healthy option in the backfield.
As it relates to the injury report, Chris Brooks was
dealing with the chest injury too, playing through that, and
they didn't elevate Pierre Strong to the roster, didn't sign
him to the roster. It had to sort of be
them Manuel Wilson show.
Speaker 1 (28:20):
Yeah, well, all right, let's let's get uh, let's get
right into it here. As far as the keys to
victory for the Packers, I'm gonna start and I'm not
going to go back into another monologue with regard to
finishing drives, but that is what is at the top
of the list here is the Packers have to start
getting the ball back into the end zone when they're
in the red zone instead of settling for field goals
(28:41):
or putting themselves in fourth downs where you're deciding do
you go for it, do you kick, et cetera, et cetera.
But the other thing I will say, and I'll say
this whether it's Lamar Jackson or Snoop Huntley as the
quarterback for the Ravens. Defensively, the game plan needs to
be pretty similar to what it was against Caleb Williams,
which is, you've got you've got to keep these guys
(29:02):
in the pocket. You have to make them try to
beat you from the pocket, not get outside where they
have the threat with their legs. Where they get they
get a you know, a broader view of the field
to be able to uh, to be able to gas
you with throws when when they're asking, you know, the
coverage to hold up for five or six seconds and
you know somebody's going to break free. So the containing
(29:24):
the quarterback in the pocket, whichever quarterback it is for
Baltimore to me, is another one at the top of
the list of keys to victy.
Speaker 2 (29:30):
Yeah, Green May has to do a better job of
that than they did against Chicago. By and large, they
were able to contain.
Speaker 1 (29:37):
I thought there were a couple of drives where they
let him, they let him get out and and and
he made him pay that's when he threw the ball.
Speaker 2 (29:42):
So dang well, yep, And there was a couple that
he made late that I give him credit for that
he put the ball in there from the pocket. But
but when you talk about how he built a rhythm,
it was everything you and I talked about coming off
the first game. Him rolling out, particularly rolling right.
Speaker 1 (29:55):
It's almost like.
Speaker 2 (29:56):
When remember when Jordan Love gets to hop in his steps.
Sometimes when he's in the pocket, you're like, Okay, this
guy's gonna refurl one here. Yeah, that's what it kind
of looks like when Caleb Williams kind of is able
to get out, escape the pressure, allow the plays to develop.
I agree with you. And when you say finished drives,
I talk about finishing games. I think when you look
at the Packers in the Baltimore Ravens both coming up
short last week, it's because they didn't finish games and
(30:17):
they bolt didn't finish games without their starting quarterback. That sucks.
Sorry about that, Yeah, but you still have to find
a way forward and they let it go. So whoever
finishes this game better, whoever plays well in the fourth quarter,
regardless of what happens in the first three quarters, Who's
going to be who prevails. I'll also say the Packers
need to protect your quarterback, whether it's Love, whether it's Willis.
(30:40):
You got to keep that thing clean for him. When
you look at the big plays the last few weeks
in which the defenses sort of capitalize on green Bay,
it's when the quarterback's been under pressure and then unfortunately
also Willo is getting banged up a little bit at
the end of regulation. You got to keep that thing clean.
Baltimore has a diverse pass r I don't think they
(31:00):
have a guy in the roster with more than three
and a half sacks. They are gonna throw it in
waves and they're gonna try to simulate those pressures. They're
gonna try to create some chaos there to throw you
off tilt with your offensive front. Green Bay has to
stay disciplined in that way, and they have to execute
the big plays and the explosive plays when they're available.
Speaker 1 (31:17):
Yeah, and I like what you said about finishing games
because because we have seen this Packers team in twenty
twenty five be very much jeckle and hide when it
comes to crunch time. I mean, we saw this team,
you know, I mean they execute, they execute and convert
(31:38):
the massive fourth down at the end of the game
in Detroit on Thanksgiving to get a huge win. You
go back the week before that, you have gotta have
it touchdown drive against the Giants late in the fourth quarter.
You get it, and then the defense gets the interception
to seal the game. That's crunched time play. The first
(32:00):
game against the Bears, the Bears had rallied and tied
the game, Jordan Love put together a drive. You go
down the field, you get the go ahead touchdown, and
then what do you do on the other end, You
get the interception that seals it. That's crunch time football.
But by the same token we have seen We've seen
this team, you know, blow the multi score leads late
(32:23):
against Cleveland and now against the Bears. Where the crunch time,
the crunch time execution on both sides of the ball,
all three phases, if you want to call it, that
wasn't there. And yeah, this you know you mentioned before
and I'm going on a little bit of a tangent here,
but you mentioned before about how you know this Packers
(32:45):
team hasn't been handled by anybody you look at. I
believe and you can correct me if I'm wrong. I
believe the Packers have only been down by more than
one score once all season, and it was against Arizonas
on the road, and they actually then were able to
come back and win that game. Because the other largest
(33:07):
deficit that they have faced was the eight points against Denver,
which technically is one possession because you can get a
touchdown on a two point conversion to tie the score.
So you haven't faced You've only faced one multi score
deficit all season, but yet you've let a couple of
multi score leads late in the game get away, and
that's why you're sitting here at nine to five and
(33:28):
one instead of in a better position to win the
NFC North than looking at the upper seeds as opposed
to just hey, all right, one more win and get
a wild card and then see how it falls. So
that's that's kind of where they are.
Speaker 2 (33:40):
Yeah, it's an excellent point, Mike. I look at Green
Bay right now as a team that should probably be
sitting on eleven wins this season.
Speaker 1 (33:47):
Yeah, and it is what it is.
Speaker 2 (33:49):
So but but the other aspect of it too, that
that I look for in this matchup that is just
going to be incredible to watch and see exactly how
this plays out is every team has dealt with injuries,
every team has dealt with adversity. Talked about the Tampa
Bay Buccaneers, the free fall that they've been on and
now they're behind Caroline after being a team that looked
like was going to be not just a division champion,
(34:09):
but potentially an NFC favorite. The season takes different courses
in different turns, and you have to be able to
adjust to that throughout the course of the year. I
think green Bay Buy and Large has done a good
job that all the frustrations are based on what was
still left out there for them. Yes, and when you
think back to last year, and I love that you
brought this up because one of the areas I felt
(34:30):
like Green Bay was great in. And then generally speaking
they've been really good in this under Matt la floor.
But specifically last year was when Josh Jacobs had that
breakout year. Their for minuted offense was so good it's
probably the best I've ever covered. They could drain the
clock with their offense, and this year they've not been
able to do that. They've had too many three and
outs in the second half. There's been too many times
(34:51):
where there's been a turnover things of that nature. Green
Bay's had to have some hero plays like the Dantavian
Wicks wanted to get out of that situation and to
try yep, and some gutsy calls from Matt Lafloor, but
they haven't been able to drain the clock the same way.
That is going to have to change, And regardless of
how Josh Jacobs is feeling, if it's not Josh, it's
gonna have to be Manuelson. The Packers have to find
(35:12):
a way to shorten these games. And another huge test
lies in front of them in the Baltimore Ravens, because
the Ravens are going to be looking to really turn
this thing up.
Speaker 1 (35:22):
I'm guessing yeah, the Ravens have everything on the line
in this one on Saturday Night. One last thing before
we go, just taking a look at the other games
that would have some implications related to the Packers as
far as Week seventeen starts right away on Thursday. On
Christmas Day, Detroit is at Minnesota. If Minnesota can actually
(35:43):
beat the Lions and give the Lions a third straight loss,
the Packers would clinch their playoff spot before they even
play on Saturday. Now, if the Lions win, then the
Packers would still need to get one more win to
make the playoffs. But I mean, this one kind of
all hinges on whether JJ McCarthy plays or if the
Vikings have to turn to Max Brosmer, whose first career
(36:07):
start earlier this season in Seattle was about as big
a disasters as you know I think I've seen in
the NFL this year, quite frankly. So we'll see what
happens there, But gives Packers fans something to root for
on Christmas Day. You root for the Vikings to knock
off the Lions.
Speaker 2 (36:24):
Yeah, my thought on this would be and if Brozemer plays,
Brosmer plays, I think then Brosman should play the rest
of the year. To be honest with you, I think
I mean if JJ McCarthy like this JJ McCarthy thing man,
like the ankle injury that took him out for four weeks,
it's like, Okay, are we healthy are we not healthy?
Speaker 1 (36:41):
Yeah?
Speaker 2 (36:41):
I mean I get that you're injured, but are you
healthy or not healthy? It always comes back to that.
So if he doesn't go against the Lions, I think
that would be an interesting decision then for him suddenly
to play against Green Bay and what for them wouldn't
be a meaningful game. So we'll see exactly how that
shakes out. But yeah, it'll be it'll be interesting. It's
gonna be interesting to see how the Lions bounce back
(37:01):
because that was a devastating loss. I don't think I
know A lot was made in their locker room afterwards
about the two opis on the final possession, and I joked,
I wrote this an inbox and I took it out.
But it's like, I've watched enough Amen Ross Saint Brown football,
oh to know that that's offensive pass interference. Yes, is
the way the guy plays the position.
Speaker 1 (37:20):
Yes, it is what it is.
Speaker 2 (37:22):
So he got called on it. You know again, sometimes
he eat the bear, sometimes the bear eats you. It
didn't work out. I think the crazy thing about it
was the fact that that play didn't get blown dead
right away. That actually let that was ability happen.
Speaker 1 (37:35):
That was the crazy thing to me is that is
that Carl Scheffer's crew both of those offensive pass interference
calls at the end of the game, they got him right.
Speaker 2 (37:45):
They got them right.
Speaker 1 (37:45):
And the first one, which was on the pick play
over on the right side, of the field. They had
called the Steelers for exactly the same thing, which forced
the Steelers earlier in the second half to kick a
field goal as opposed to getting a touchdown. So they
then they did call it on the Lions with the
game on the line. The Aman Ross Saint Brown shove
off was like as obvious as it gets. And you
know the way he plays the game and how we
(38:09):
have seen against the Packers but against other teams as well.
At crunch time, he feels like he's just gonna get
away with it, that they're not going to throw the flag.
So he did it again at the goal line. You
just shoved the guy out of the way. Credit to
Scheffer's crew, they threw the flag, but they completely botched
the fact that that play should not have been ruled
(38:29):
a touchdown that needed to be nullified by the penalty,
because my gosh, they had it. They had the forward
progress was stopped for like five seconds, four yards and supposedly,
I mean, and that's the thing, and again we don't
have time to go off on this big tangent. But
as you just said, they shoved him back like four
(38:50):
yards before he laterals the ball to the quarterback. But
if the defender had like slammed him to the ground
to make sure the play was over, it's fifteens, you know,
we're half the distance, and then they're gonna get an
untimed down with no time on the clock. I mean,
what do the officials want here? Are you gonna let
the play go? But then you're gonna let the play
(39:12):
go that shouldn't go. But then if the def if
you're making the defense slam the guy on the ground
to make sure that the play is over, You're gonna
flag him for a personal file. Like the NFL has
got it, and I gotta stop because otherwise I'm gonna
go off and our producer Hannah is going to say
the show is way too long. The NFL has got
to get a handle on what they want to do
with their officials here. It's getting ridiculous. And that play,
(39:33):
that last play of the Lion Steelers game was as
ridiculous as it gets.
Speaker 2 (39:37):
Yeah, and it just even be in that position, h again,
it just there was so much of that game, Mike,
I'm watching, So I promised I was not gonna watch
that game.
Speaker 1 (39:47):
I actually said I couldn't turn I couldn't turn away
when I saw the highlight when I saw the highlight
of Kenneth Gainwell making that catch because I didn't see
it live, but when I saw the highlight of Gainwell
making that catch on the ground at the end of
the first half and getting up and going into the
end zone to get the game tied at halftime for
the Steelers, I was like, because I was actually at
(40:07):
my desk and I was finishing up some work on Sunday,
and then I was like, all right, I got to
go home and watch the second half now because this
game is tied. So I did, and then I just
got all worked up about the officiating at the end.
Speaker 2 (40:19):
And I just there was something about coming off of
that Packers game that it was too raw for me.
I mean, if the Lions would have found a way
to win that would have been a really hard one
to see.
Speaker 1 (40:26):
Oh but.
Speaker 2 (40:29):
The fact is they didn't. The fact is is that
Aaron Rodgers, Kenneth Gainwell, who I give a lot of
credit for, I mean the way that he has kind
of rescued his career and found second life in Pittsburgh,
And it was these games always go down to the wire,
it feels like, and in that particular case, the Steelers
did the Packers a huge favor and now we'll find
(40:50):
out on Saturday night if the Packers can pay their
old friend Aaron Rodgers back as well.
Speaker 1 (40:54):
Yeah, Aaron Rodgers, who's throwing the ball the Mark wez
Veldez scantling, Adam Thielen and Sky Miller to keep the
Pittsburgh Steelers and his and with his number one receiver
now suspended for two games and probably you know, out
until a potential playoff game. I want to get your
thoughts on a couple other things. And I know we're
going really overtime here, but Philadelphia at Buffalo a very
(41:16):
interesting game in week seventeen. The Eagles, they've already clinched
the NFC East, but they're jockeying for the seating position.
And and the Buffalo Bills a real dangerous team obviously.
And then on Sunday night football Chicago at San Francisco.
San Francisco, to me, is the most dangerous team right
now that nobody's talking about. And if you're from the Packers' perspective,
(41:41):
here's the thing. Beat the Ravens on Saturday night. Cheer
for the Niners to beat the Bears on Sunday night,
and the Packers go into Week eighteen with a chance
to still win the division. So you know that it's
it's one way to look at it.
Speaker 2 (41:56):
Yes, you are one hundred percent right. You also are
going to have a Detroit Lions team with absolutely nothing
to play for in that finale, but you are right,
maybe they can do it for pride.
Speaker 1 (42:06):
Dan Campbell would never let a team roll over. I'll
just say that I know that they are and they're
banged up is all get out.
Speaker 2 (42:12):
But but but I'm trying to be with you on
that one, okay, because other people have brought this up too. Well,
if the Packers went out and the Bears lose out,
I'm like, yeah, but by the Packers winning out, that
also makes Week eighteen meaningless for the for the Lions.
But they've they've come through before. They did it against
the Packers a couple of years ago, so sure did.
But all that being said, like this is what we're
(42:33):
learning now about the Chicago Bears. They are facing a
gauntlet of really strong football teams, and brock Purty is
healthy again. Brock Purty was exceptional against Indianapolis. I mean,
he was surgical the way that he tore apart that
Colts defense. This looks to me again, it's just the
way these things go with Kyle Shanahan's teams. Some years
(42:54):
they're healthy, some years they're not. But my goodness, when
they're healthy and things are clicking, and typically it feels
like if it's a odd year, they're off and running.
And that west Man when you look at Seahawks rams
forty nine Ers and it's probably gonna take thirteen wins
to come out with that division title and that number
one seed.
Speaker 1 (43:13):
And the Seahawks and forty nine Ers play each other
in the finale in Week eighteen, too.
Speaker 2 (43:18):
All to play for it. Yeah, but yeah, go go
forty nine Ers and see where it takes you.
Speaker 1 (43:23):
Yeah. All right, well I think we covered it all
in a rambling sort of way. Yea episode and yeah
we went off on various tangents. Thanks for handing with us, folks.
Speaker 2 (43:34):
This is not the week got you know, thankfully it's Christmas.
I'm excited for it, but this was not the week
to have to like try to compartmentalize everything into world.
Speaker 1 (43:41):
Yes, I know so much stuff that now there's too much,
too much, But we managed to get through.
Speaker 2 (43:47):
I never even got around complaining about how a taunting
penalty can help get you thrown out of the game.
But if you have two roughing the passer, I know
twenty one minutes, you're fine.
Speaker 1 (43:55):
Right, And I know and I and I skipped and
I skipped that part because I wasn't even to get
into these And then we started talking about the Lions game,
and you got it. I got going on the officials again.
Speaker 2 (44:04):
So don't don't do this. You'll be won away from
a disqualification. But if I throw my forehead into your chin, Michael.
Speaker 1 (44:13):
Or a forearm shiver into a sliding quarterback, you know,
and at fifteen yards, but yeah, you're you're good. You
can continue your head hunting.
Speaker 2 (44:22):
Player safety eighteen regular season games.
Speaker 1 (44:24):
All right, we are going to call it a rap
on this edition of Packers Unscript. We'd be sure to
follow all of our coverage of Saturday nights big game
from lambeau Field, Packers and Ravens. We will have it
all for you on Packers dot com for Wes, I
am Mike. Thank you for tuning in, and Merry Christmas everybody.
We will see you next time.
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