December 30, 2025 • 33 mins
Mike and Wes review the loss to the Ravens, including all the adversity and rough defensive outing (3:59). They also discuss potential motivations for Week 18 at Minnesota (7:57), provide an injury update (13:04), and highlight QB Malik Willis’ outstanding play (15:01), before looking at the full NFC playoff picture (21:30).
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:06):
Hi, everybody.
Speaker 2 (00:07):
Welcome to another edition of Packers Unscripted from Packers dot Com.
I like Spuffer, joined by my trusted colleague Wes Hodkoitz.
We're coming to you here from our studios at Lambeaufield
to discuss unfortunately WESA forty one to twenty four loss
on Saturday night at Lambeaufield to the Baltimore Ravens. A
lot of implications to this one, which we'll get into
(00:29):
a little bit later, but this game was all about
the Packers run defense being a no show against the
Ravens and the power running of Derrick Henry. I'm just
gonna start by asking you this, and I'm not asking
this from an x's and o's question. What happened and why?
Speaker 1 (00:49):
It's a great question.
Speaker 3 (00:50):
As I was walking through a very muddy parking lot
at lambeau Field afterwards.
Speaker 2 (00:54):
Trying I needed my galoshes to get to work on
Saturday night. I left those at home.
Speaker 1 (00:59):
Unfortunately, yead my boots.
Speaker 3 (01:00):
I was fortunate in that regard, But I was sitting
there trying to think of this it because I don't know, Michael,
if I've covered a game quite like this where we
were one Ravens carry away from like Baltimore tripling green
Bay up not only just in rushing yards, but with
rushing attempts. Yeah, and I'd read some stuff about how
one of the criticisms coming out of the game the
(01:22):
week before for Baltimore was that they didn't dedicate enough
to running the ball with Derrick Henry.
Speaker 1 (01:28):
Boy, they turned that.
Speaker 3 (01:29):
On its head in this one and for the first
series seven carries, I think it was forty eight rushing yards.
You just had a feeling right from the get go
this guy it was going to be difficult for the
Packers to try stopping him.
Speaker 1 (01:42):
But the fact that they.
Speaker 3 (01:43):
Were able to stay in third and manageable all afternoon,
every single conversion in the first half, the every single
drive they were able to get points off of it,
that is I think sort of where I put Green
Bay on its heels right away. The run game was
never established. Malik Willis played phenomenally well, but it just
felt like if Green Bay wasn't going to match the
(02:04):
Ravens point for point, possession for possession, this was what
it was going to turn into. What I could not
have seen happening was green Bay actually getting it back
to a one possession game, getting it two twenty seven
to twenty four in the third quarter. But then obviously
Willis gets hurt, things kind of go a different direction.
The defense never does rebound, and Derrick Henry walked out
(02:25):
of lambeau Field with a career performance in a career
that is probably one day going to end up finding
him in Canton.
Speaker 2 (02:31):
Yeah, he was. It was his seventh career two hundred
yard rushing game, his second career four touchdown game. He
is definitely headed to the Pro Football Hall of Fame
at some point, There's no doubt about that. I thought,
in some ways the epitome of this game when you
talk about what Malik Willis was doing, which was phenomenal
on the offensive side of the ball, as Jordan Love
had not cleared concussion protocol in order to be able
(02:54):
to play in this game, so the Packers did turn
to Willis to run the offense again. As he got
the Packers back to twenty seven to twenty four. The
Ravens were on their own twenty yard line and had
third and five. That was the moment you get a
stop there, you're only down by three. Willis was lightening
(03:15):
it up. But what happens on third and five, Tyler
Huntley is in the shotgun, the Ravens backup quarterback playing
for Lamar Jackson. Huntley's in the shotgun. He starts walking
around and hollering at everybody on the offense that he
is changing the play. And on third and five a
basic handoff to Derrick Henry for nine yards. When the
opponent is that confident that they can just check to
(03:38):
a run on third and five and you know, easily
get it by, you know, with a nine yard run,
that just tells you how much they were in control
of the line of scrimmage in this game, and it
was just it was tough sledding for Green Bay's defense.
These are the questions that I came out with that
(04:00):
game with regard to the Packers on the defensive side
of the ball. Okay, so was losing Micah Parsons and
then losing the game in Chicago the way they did
just a week later, was that just this too big
a pile of adversity to try to plow through in
this game against Baltimore. Was all the injuries that continue
(04:23):
to pile up for the Packers, for a team that
has not had a bye week since Week five, is
that something that just started to pile up and get
and get to be too much. I think, ultimately the question,
as the Packers are now two weeks away, less than
two weeks away from a playoff game in either Chicago
or Philadelphia, we have seen Green Bay's defense play two
(04:46):
games without Micah Parsons. We saw them hold the Chicago Bears,
who have a shot at the number two seed and
they are now NFC North champs, hold the Chicago Bears
to three field goals and no touchdowns over fifty eight
minutes without Micah Parsons. But then we saw game number
two without Micah Parsons and the defense look completely different
(05:07):
and in a completely different place. So, which non Micah
Parsons defense is the real one? Which one are the
Packers going to have when the playoffs start and we
get into do or die.
Speaker 3 (05:22):
The optimistic side of you would like to say that
the Chicago Bears defense, sure, But the problem is is
the Packers if you look at it from like a
three round UFC fight here, they came off really strong
in that first round and the second round did not
go well. I think the answer questions we're not going
to really know until the right wild Card game.
Speaker 2 (05:39):
I think that's I think that is the answer. We
don't we won't know until that wild card game kicks.
Speaker 3 (05:44):
Off, but how the bounce back and how they respond
is gonna be very critical the Packers the way that
they're aligned right now, they're missing one of their pivotal
pieces in this equation in Micah Parsons. I think one
thing I learned from this game against the Ravens was
for as much as people wanted to rip on him
(06:04):
for his run defense in Dallas, I think this guy
had and we knew this, he had a much bigger
role in it than probably I think he got credit
for with as much perseveration as people put on the
fact that he was a really good pass rusher and
he had the sacks and he was a pro bowler.
Micah parsons relentless tenacity was also present in the run defense.
Speaker 1 (06:23):
No doubt.
Speaker 3 (06:24):
And when you look at where Green Bay came up
short in this game, and it wasn't on just one
particular player, one particular unit, it was that there were
too many second chances, whether it was Henry, whether it
was Tyler Huntley, and some of the scrambles that he had,
if guys weren't getting players to the turf immediately. They
were dragging piles, they were breaking tackles, and it made
for a very long day. Matt Laflour even said it
(06:44):
on Sunday afternoon, he can't remember the last time he'd
seen a game in which a team a massed over
three hundred rushing yards, and Green Bay it bears out
in the statistics. They fell to fifteenth in run defense,
they fell six places or five places in total defense,
just based on the weight of this performance.
Speaker 1 (07:00):
It's alone, which is.
Speaker 3 (07:01):
Not easy to do in week seventeen, sixteen games into
a season. So for the Packers, it is going to
be about the bounce back here. What gives me solace,
what gives me some confidence in this is that they
have their linebackers intact, potentially maybe getting We'll see what
happens today. We don't wan announce anything yet, but reports
are out there that Jonathan Ford was claimed. We'll see
what happens with his situation by the time this post.
(07:23):
But he's a guy with experience in this defense. A
monstrous nose tackle because now it looks like, well, we
know they're not gonna have Jordan Riley the rest of
the way because of his achilles injury. So how do
the Packers take what happened to them and put their
best foot forward? Because whether or not at Saquon Barkley
in Philadelphia, whether or not it's you know, DeAndre Swift,
(07:44):
Kyle man Ungui, they are gonna have to deal with
a decent running back couple of them in that first
game of the playoffs. They can't have another performance like
this if they expect there to be a second game.
Speaker 2 (07:55):
No, absolutely not. And here's the thing. I am not
a football I don't know Jack Squatt about x's and
o's when it comes to NFL football. But here's here's
the thing. From a from a leadership standpoint, I think
you try to stand in front of the defensive room
(08:17):
and hammer home the message that the narrative out there
right now is that this defense isn't worth anything without
Micah Parsons because that's what they put on the field
most recently on Saturday night. Now we know that that's
not true because of how they played against Chicago, but everybody, always,
the most recent thing that you've done is where the
(08:39):
narrative is headed. And you know this meaningless week eighteen
game against Minnesota is not going to change anything one
way or another. But this defense has the guys in
that defensive room are gonna have one more chance to
change that narrative, that the narrative that's out there now
that they aren't they aren't good enough without Micah Parsons,
(09:02):
I think there's gonna be a level of pride. I
think there's going to be uh, there's going to be
some determination to say that is that is not how
this defense is going to be remembered. Just just my
thought in terms of whatever motivation there might be, how
you how you bounce back from this? And and I
(09:23):
and I will say this. I mean you and I
were both thinking I know you were as well as I.
With two minutes left at Soldier Field, we were thinking
this was a Packers team that had a realistic shot
at the number two seed in the NFC. And suddenly,
very quickly, as often happens in this league, everything changed.
And now with one game left to go in the
(09:45):
regular season, the Packers are locked into the seven seed,
the bottom seed in the NFC. They can't do anything
about that. That's where they are. If there is any
silver lining to this, it is that Unlike last year
when Christian and Watson blows out his knee in the
regular season finale and Jordan love injures his hand and
(10:05):
has to leave that game against the Bears to end
the regular season before you go to Philly for the
wildcard round, this Packers team now actually has a chance
to reset and to regroup both mentally and physically, as
banged up as they are before you head out into
the postseason. Maybe that is going to help this team, especially,
(10:29):
as I mentioned before, a team that had its bye
week way back in Week five. So just maybe, just
maybe that's a silver lining here. As much as yeah,
you would love to be either the two or the
three seed, which if you had won the game in Chicago,
you would have put yourself in position to potentially get there.
That's not happening. You're the number seven seed. But maybe
(10:51):
you can use this to your advantage in some way.
Speaker 3 (10:54):
You took away I think one of my big points
I was going to make on Thursday show, but let's
get to it now. I mean, this is the week. Well,
it's an excellent point. Not that I would have said
it as clearly as you did, but this is what
I was gonna say, I think when you look at
the motivations for this finale against Minnesota, it's twofold. I
think offensively, it's keeping that what you have as healthy
(11:15):
as possible. And if that means sitting guys, if that
means resting guys, if that means guys working a limited
count against Minnesota.
Speaker 1 (11:21):
Fine yeap.
Speaker 3 (11:21):
Defensively, I do look at it as a get right
opportunity for numerous reasons. One, somebody's got to play. You
only have fifty three guys on a roster. You can
only activate elevate two extras from the pres.
Speaker 2 (11:33):
You don't have thirty five guys like you do in
the preseason on the roster who are not going to
make it that you can just you know, throw out there.
You don't have those options.
Speaker 3 (11:41):
So as dangerous as the Vikings defense is, and it
is a good one, I mean that was my takeaway
from that game against that they played against Detroit. It
won them the game offensively, regardless of whether or not
JJ McCarthy fights through it to Brosmer plays, the Packers
are going to face a much different offense than what
they saw against baltim More into some extent, what they
saw against Chicago. I think there's gonna be some a
(12:04):
need almost to build some positib momentum up. Also, why,
while identifying who are we gonna play in the playoffs,
which defensive tackles are you gonna have out there? What
is the edge rush rotation going to?
Speaker 1 (12:17):
Look like?
Speaker 3 (12:18):
My heart sinks? It goes out to Kamal Hadden, who
unfortunately suffered what appears to be a season ending injury
at the same moment he was finally gonna get his
shot on defense after we had heard Jeff Haffley talking
about how we got to find a way to get
this guy on the field the way he's been practicing.
So there's opportunities still in this defense for guys to
(12:38):
show that they can be a part of this thing
and can help this team win a championship or make
a run in the playoffs. I think this Minnesota game
could go a long way in determining, Okay, when we
get out on the field, whether it's Soldier field or
whether they're at the link, what that defense, the starting
eleven and the rotations that come after it look like.
Speaker 2 (12:56):
Yeah, I think that's a that's definitely a good way
to look at it. The injuries. The injuries haven't stopped
for this team. You already mentioned Riley and hadden't two
guys that look like they were going to be able
to help this team down the stretch. I thought Jordan
Riley was a big part of the run defense in
Chicago in trying to put the clamps on that that
(13:17):
one two running back punch of the Bears. Those two
guys now lost for the season. Zan Anderson Nate Hobbs
also go down with injuries. Devant Dontavian excuse me, Wicks
also exits the game with a concussion. So it just
it just feels like the injuries haven't stopped for this team.
(13:37):
And at the time that we're taping this, we're not
exactly sure what the Packers approach is going to be
against Minnesota in terms of who's going to play, who's
going to rest. Are guys going to be on limited
snap counts? As you said, we'll find out more information
about that as the week goes along. But hopefully you know,
(13:58):
whether you're talking you know Zach tom who's missed a
couple of games now with his knee injury. Evan Williams
had come back from the knee injury, but maybe he
gets a chance to get a little bit healthier for
the playoffs. There are some there are There are a
lot of things, a lot of considerations here looking at
this finale against against Minnesota and a Vikings team that
(14:22):
quite frankly, whether it's JJ McCarthy or Max Brosmer, it's
a Vikings team that's gonna come out pretty fired up.
They have a chance to end their season on a
five game winning streak and finish above five hundred. When
you know a month and a half ago there you
know they were going nowhere.
Speaker 3 (14:37):
That's what Kevin O'Connell does. He's done this numerous times.
He finds a way. They got that defensive coordinator hier
right a couple of years ago. Now there's talks now
about how they want to make sure they extend him
if he's not getting a head coaching opportunity elsewhere. They
want to be able to keep Brian Flores in the
In the fold, I think they should Again.
Speaker 1 (14:53):
Why why wouldn't Why wouldn't you?
Speaker 3 (14:55):
Yeah, and we'll we'll look at the previous week here
at the end of the show. But before I get
too far down the loa, let's just really quickly point
out why this Packers game against the Ravens was even close,
and that was Malik Willis. Yeah, and the fact that
so if you're looking for silver linings, you're looking for
things to hang your hat on. Malik Willis does not
get any practice reps right, very few first team reps
(15:18):
because Jordan Love going through the protocol for the first
two practices preparing for a game in which the Packers
need to win to get in until actually they learned that,
you know, the Lions had been knocked out. That whole
process was geared up for number ten. He does not
get cleared in time for the game. So Malik Willis
goes in there in the Packers. How many teams in
the National Football League, Michael, with their backup quarterback are
(15:41):
going to call for a go ball to Romeo Dobbs
on the first play, in a deep crosser on the
second play, or you know, kind of a steam route
down the middle to Christian Watson the second play. Two
plays seventy nine yards, forty minutes of time of possession
for Baltimore in this game. But the explosive plays on
Green Bay side. In addition to the fact that inability
to stop. Derrick Henry contributed to that.
Speaker 2 (16:04):
Yeah, it is. It is remarkable what Malik Willis has
done the last couple of weeks on essentially limited or
no practice reps. Obviously, heading into Chicago, he was just
doing the usual backup quarterback thing, and Jordan Love is
taking all the practice reps leading into that game. And
then with this one, as you said, the Packers are
trying to get Love through, trying to get Love through
(16:26):
the concussion protocol, and Willis not only is dealing with
an injury to his throwing shoulder, so he's already going
to be limited in that respect. He ends up missing
an entire day because of the illness whatever this bug
was that was going through the locker room, and guys
kept cropping up on the injury report. With with this
(16:48):
illness thing, he essentially misses an entire day of preparation
for the game. And then, as you said, he goes
out there and with the Packers down seven to nothing,
two plays, bing boom, they go the length of the field.
They're in the end zone, and I was like, Okay,
here's the big contrast. The Ravens are going to try
to grind this thing out and the Packers are going
to try to, you know, explode offensively whenever they can.
(17:12):
And I mean Malik Willis. I hate to use the joke,
but it was almost like when he did have to
leave the game at the end, you would have thought
it was a back injury because in some ways he
was putting the whole dang team on his back to
try to win this game on Saturday.
Speaker 3 (17:27):
Yeah, and I felt bad for him too, because, like,
for a second there, I'm like, oh, shoot, please don't
tell me, you know, towards laborhm or something like that.
But the way he went down, he wasn't a hit.
It was after a really you know, laser throw he
had on Christian Watson on the out route. He just
the guy's going to make money this offseason. He's going
(17:47):
to get an opportunity to start somewhere at least compete
for that job. You can't be happier for him. I'm
blown away by the fact that the Packers got him
for the two under at thirty ninth pick in last
year's draft. The Packers had been struggling to kind of
identify that QB two for a while. Other than the
fact that they drafted Jordan Love in the first round
back in twenty twenty. Then he filled that role for
(18:07):
two years. They'd really there's been a multiple years there
were Green Bay probably a dance with Fire, a little
bit behind Aaron Rodgers, and here he is and Malik Willis,
who has not only just been a great compliment to
Jordan Love, but the Packers don't make the playoffs probably
last year without him, and in this year again showing
how competitive he was when he had to go in
against the Giants would end up being a one score game.
(18:29):
He held the four together, he let his scoring drive.
The guy just checks every box. And I don't know
what his long term forecast is going to be. I
don't make any predictions on what his career numbers are
going to be, but for what the Packers have asked
him to do the last two years, I've been blown
away by it. And when you don't, you don't, you're
not on Instagram at all. But there was this graphic
from the NFL network or it was actually the NFL
(18:51):
League the league account where it was his numbers, which
was two hundred and eighty eight yards passing career high
over three hundred yards total yards when you add in
the sixty rushing three touchdowns, and the amount of players
on the Packers roster that post that reposted that to
their story Offensive defense. If there must have been thirty
guys that did that. The amount of respect that they
(19:12):
have for Willis in addition to Jordan Love, but the
mount of respect they have for Willis and what he's
done and the way he carries himself in the professionalism
he's shown over the last two years, I think goes
a long way in addition to the fact that he
was running out there with Christian Watson and Romeo Dobbs,
and I mean, you have any questions about whether or
not this guy can be someone you can build a
team around, or he can compliment what you already have.
(19:34):
In a league starve for quarterbacks, the Packers happen to
have two very good ones.
Speaker 2 (19:37):
Yeah, it's just too bad. If his shoulder hadn't started
to bother him and he hadn't had to come out,
if you were able to stay in at that point,
it was a ten point game. The Packers were kind
of on the fringe of field goal range there where
you're looking at And he even said after the game
he was so disappointed he had to come out because
he knew the situation. He's like, hey, we're either going
to get three or get seven. There, you're going to
(19:58):
be back within one score. Maybe the defense can get
a stop, you know, and give you that opportunity, and
all that kind of went out to.
Speaker 3 (20:05):
Win the way he ran to the locker room and
then ran out of the locker room too. The people
there was a like a huge disappointing hush when he
went running off the field after the trainers looked at him,
and then when he came out. Unfortunately for the Packers
their defense. You know, Baltimore was moving the ball, but
the evation that there was when Number two came out
of the Packers tunnel potentially being back in the game remarkable.
Speaker 2 (20:27):
Yeah. All right, well, I want to take a look
at the NFC playoff picture in general, kind of a
big picture look. But we'll pay some bills first and
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Wisconsin dot com slash Wonders. Welcome back to Packers unscripted
All right, Wes. The scenarios for the Packers are really
pretty simple because Green Bay is either going to be
(21:32):
traveling to Chicago or to Philadelphia. Either the Bears or
the Eagles will be the number two seed. The Packers
are the seven, the Bears are the ones in control
of it. If they win against the Lions, they are
the two seed and Green Bay will go to Chicago.
If the Bears lose, and if the Eagles win their
game against the Commanders, then the Eagles would leapfrog them
(21:54):
for the two seed and the Packers would go to Philadelphia,
and I know people are to ask us all week long, Okay,
you know which one would you rather have? And whatever.
I don't really look at it like that. I don't.
I'm not. I don't think it's worth trying to spend
any time, you know, which one would you prefer. The
thing that I think is interesting is that there's sort
(22:15):
of that there's there's an element of revenge or payback
to both of these potential opponents because a of what
happened at Soldier Field a couple of weeks ago, and
b the fact that the Packers season last year ended
in Philadelphia and the Eagles came into lambeau Field this
year on a Monday night and beat Green Bay. So
(22:36):
you kind of have the revenge payback angle whichever way
this falls.
Speaker 3 (22:42):
Last year, I was really into this if for the
Packer's sake, I wanted the sixth seed, and I think
the statistics and the history bears that out. Washington got
the sixth seed, they went to Tampa, beat Tampa, and next.
Speaker 1 (22:54):
Thing you know, they're in the NFC Championship. Right they
went on a huge run.
Speaker 3 (22:58):
I think Green Bay could have had that if they
would have been able to get that six seat because
the way Philly was playing at the end of last year.
A lot of stuff happened in that first quarter in
that game, the wildcard game with the Packers, but Philly
was a team that was hitting its peak at the
right time. Last year. I was a little bit more
fearsome there. This year, I wrote an insider inbox say
it's a horse apiece to me, I don't really care.
(23:18):
Whatever happens happens, the narratives will be what they are.
The difficult thing that the tough part of that Green
Bay that me, if I was a professional athlete, which
I'm very much not, I would have a hard time
putting the back of my mind is it was the
number two seed really was right there for green Bay.
Speaker 2 (23:33):
Yep. It was.
Speaker 1 (23:34):
In addition to the fact.
Speaker 3 (23:35):
To what happened at the end of the Bears game
with the Bears losing in pretty heartbreaking fashion to the
forty nine Ers. The Packers win that game, you'd be
looking at this week now. Maybe green Bay it would
change their strategy. I don't know how they would have
handled it, But if the Packers would be in a
position right now with a win over the Vikings and
of what could very easily be a loss for the
Bears to the Lions.
Speaker 1 (23:56):
Bears will be favored, but.
Speaker 3 (23:57):
I mean, anything can happen, Dan, and it's a talented team.
Jared Goff's had a really good season. It's been some
of the things around him defensively that I think have
fallen apart somewhat in the second half, But it all
could have been there for Green Bay to be in
the two. That being said, wash that out, throw it away.
(24:18):
The Packers are in a position now where, out of
everything that's happened, three game losing streak right now, losing
that chance at the division title. Realistically, if you can
put that out of your mind, the only thing you've
lost is the opportunity to host that first playoff game
and maybe more after that. But you gave that away
because now Seattle San Francisco, one of those two teams,
(24:38):
is going to take this to the conference and it's
going to take that number one scene in the bye.
You gotta find a way to push yourself forward. But yeah,
I mean to have it go the way that it
went on Saturday night. It leaves a bad taste in
your mouth. But if you can just in some way
compartmentalize that, realize that you didn't lose that much. It's
just that you gave up an opportunity to gain something.
Speaker 2 (25:00):
Yeah, and I and I think, having been around professional
football players as long as I have, I think the
players in that locker room are mentally what's going to
be on their mind is more so how they played
and how they looked and how things went, not so
(25:20):
much the whole seeding and whatever, you know, opportunity that's
for all of us on the outset to parse, to
analyze and whatnot. It's it's very interesting how these last
couple of things are are coming together in the NFC.
As you mentioned, Seattle and San Francisco will be playing
each other for the one seed, and we're kind of
(25:46):
it's it's almost the exact same, pretty close to the
exact same scenario as last year when the final game
was Detroit and Minnesota and the winner was going to
get the one seed and the first drawn by and
the loser drive all the way to the five and
is going to have to go on the road as
a wildcard team. The difference in this case is that
(26:07):
where that five seed goes, the four seed is going
to be the NFC South champion, which is the division
that nobody seems to want to win.
Speaker 1 (26:15):
Except for the teams that are out of contention right exactly.
Speaker 2 (26:17):
The Saints and the Falcons are the two teams playing
the best football in the NFC South right now, but
neither one of them can win the division. It's still
between Carolina and Tampa Bay. And what a crazy scenario now,
right because the NFL put that game on Saturday afternoon,
it was looking like it would be the winner wins
the division. The loser is out, you know, But now
(26:39):
because of the Falcons knocking off the Rams on Monday
Night Football in Week seventeen, the Panthers, it's still they win,
they win the division, they get in. But the Buccaneers,
if the Buccaneers are able to beat the Panthers on Saturday,
then they have to sit at home on Sunday and
hope that the Saints can beat the Falcons to prevent
(27:00):
a three way tie atop the NFC. Yeah, it's it's
it is entirely possible. But if the Buccaneers, the Buccaneers
are no longer in just a win to get in scenario.
They have to win and then they have to get
help on Sunday because if it's a three way tie
with all of with three teams at eight and nine
at the top of the division, the Panthers are the
(27:22):
team that has the tie breaker, and they would they
would get in. Whoever does win that division, Buccaneers or Panthers,
they get the four seed, they get to host the
loser of Seattle and San Francisco, because if I have
it right, the Rams can no longer get the five
because they lost on their conference Yeah, they can no
(27:45):
longer get the five because they lost on Monday night.
So the loser of Seahawks and forty nine ers is
going to travel to the winner of the NFC South,
which is not necessarily a bad spot to be in,
but we saw how difficult it was for the Vikings
last year with so much on the line in that
final regular season game, they don't get it done and
(28:08):
then they go on the road as the five seed
and suddenly, boom, you know, one in in a span
of eight days, you go from playing for the one
seed in the conference to your.
Speaker 1 (28:17):
Seasons over correct.
Speaker 2 (28:18):
And that's the that's the danger that that the loser
of that West Coast game is facing.
Speaker 3 (28:26):
Yeah, and Atlanta had Atlanta had a weird year, but
Kirk Cousins goes back in there. They got a little
bit healthier. Bjeon Robinson did what he did and that
game on Monday Night football reminds you again and Sean
McVay said it afterwards.
Speaker 1 (28:39):
This league will humble you.
Speaker 3 (28:40):
I know, Packer fans here, Matt Leffleur say it, and
they say, well, that's what every This league will humble you.
And the Rams. You look at Matthew Stafford. He went
from being what some people consider to be an MVP
favorite to maybe that performance itself handed that award to
Drake may Well.
Speaker 1 (28:58):
We'll have to wait and see.
Speaker 3 (28:59):
That's up to the AP voter. But it's been one
of those type of seasons. And for Tampa Bay, they
have now lost seven of eight since their bye week.
A team we focus a lot on Indianapolis because the
injuries there, Daniel Jones, Philip Rivers comes back, they start
seven to one, they missed the playoffs. Tampa Bay is
in the middle of a potential huge collapse and I
(29:19):
honestly think there could be no bigger slap in the face.
And if they would beat Carolina in the scenario falls
then when they still don't get.
Speaker 2 (29:26):
In, they still don't get in, right, which is very.
Speaker 3 (29:29):
Possible with the way Atlanta's one of the hottest teams
in the league right now and they have nothing to
play for.
Speaker 1 (29:34):
Crazy.
Speaker 2 (29:35):
Yeah, And we were even just talking a week or
two ago about what New Orleans is doing with Kellen Moore,
the new head coach, and they've got, you know, Tyler Schuck,
the rookie quarterback who's kind of taken the reins there,
and I mean it's just it's it's really interesting what's
going on, because they are going to be a couple
of teams in the NFC South that are not going
(29:56):
to make the playoffs who are sort of, you know,
they have a lot to look forward, yeah, you know,
moving forward. And as you said, I mean Tampa Bay.
Speaker 1 (30:06):
I mean.
Speaker 2 (30:08):
Maybe the ultimate sort of perfect ridiculous scenario in the
NFC South is for Tampa Bay to finally find itself
blow out the Carolina Panthers by three touchdowns and then
still not get in because Falcons end up beating the
Saints and the Panthers get in. Anyway, it just sort
of feels like the way this season is gone that's
(30:29):
something crazy like that is how this is going to end.
Speaker 3 (30:31):
And then look at what's happening now with Sunday Night football, right,
I mean the Packers, thank you Aaron Rodgers. He's the
one that helps set this thing up for the Packers
to clinch the playoff. Green Bay isn't able to pay
back the favor. But at the same time, Pittsburgh EN's
a falling short against Cleveland six points. It's just the
way these teams get tripped up. And I actually thought
I think it kind of got a little bit viral
for the wrong reasons.
Speaker 1 (30:51):
I actually thought Miles.
Speaker 3 (30:52):
Garrett made a pretty good point in saying that there
was so much focus it felt like on stopping him
watching that game, it felt that way.
Speaker 1 (30:58):
That it was like, give up the sack, get up
the sack.
Speaker 3 (31:00):
You got to win the game, And it felt like
sometimes there was just so much attention devoted to him
that they didn't. And honestly, the more I watch Pittsburgh too,
the more you got to get that ball in Kenneth
Gainwell's hands.
Speaker 1 (31:11):
That is your guy.
Speaker 3 (31:13):
He's taken a unique path, but they were forcing balls outside.
You don't have DK Metcalf and the result is the result.
Speaker 2 (31:20):
I saw something really interesting and I'm gonna end with
this because it's sort of apropos of nothing. Twenty years ago,
as a rookie, Aaron Rodgers came off the bench on
a Monday night game in Baltimore in a game the
Packers were getting clobbered. But earlier in that game, Deon
Sanders had an interception. And then twenty years later, Aaron
(31:41):
Rodgers is quarterbacking a game where the opposing quarterback is
Dion Sanders Son crazy Shedur Sanders. That's wild, bro.
Speaker 1 (31:49):
I wait, that is nuts. You know what I call that?
Speaker 3 (31:51):
Right? I have my own theory on this. I always
called that the Disney World theory, which is when you
go to Disney World, there's people that are there for
the first hour, there are people that are leaving in
an hour.
Speaker 1 (32:00):
There's people that have been there for a week, there's
people that just arrived.
Speaker 3 (32:02):
I love this type of stuff in the NFL because
this is the spaceship that they're on. Yeah, you know,
Rogers twenty plus seasons in the National Football League. He
sticks around long enough to be around there where Shador
Sanders is getting a start after Dion Sanders retires for
a few years and then returns with the Baltimore Ravens.
It's just these are the type of things I think
make the NFL world go round and also an incredible
(32:26):
testament to the longevity that Rogers has had to still
be playing the game at forty two years old.
Speaker 2 (32:30):
Yeah, definitely. Well, it's going to be an interesting Week
eighteen in the NFL, even if there isn't so much
interest in the Packers and the Vikings. This week, we
will talk more.
Speaker 1 (32:40):
We will have it though. You and I will be interesting.
We will be there.
Speaker 2 (32:43):
We will be there with Bells on right after the
new year, and we'll talk a little bit more about
that matchup on our next show. But for now, we're
going to call it a rap on this edition of
Packers Unscript. I'd be sure to continue following all of
our coverage of the team on Packers dot com for Wes, Iam, Mike,
thank you for tune and everybody. We will see Hike's time.
Speaker 3 (33:04):
M
Hi, everybody.
Speaker 2 (00:07):
Welcome to another edition of Packers Unscripted from Packers dot Com.
I like Spuffer, joined by my trusted colleague Wes Hodkoitz.
We're coming to you here from our studios at Lambeaufield
to discuss unfortunately WESA forty one to twenty four loss
on Saturday night at Lambeaufield to the Baltimore Ravens. A
lot of implications to this one, which we'll get into
(00:29):
a little bit later, but this game was all about
the Packers run defense being a no show against the
Ravens and the power running of Derrick Henry. I'm just
gonna start by asking you this, and I'm not asking
this from an x's and o's question. What happened and why?
Speaker 1 (00:49):
It's a great question.
Speaker 3 (00:50):
As I was walking through a very muddy parking lot
at lambeau Field afterwards.
Speaker 2 (00:54):
Trying I needed my galoshes to get to work on
Saturday night. I left those at home.
Speaker 1 (00:59):
Unfortunately, yead my boots.
Speaker 3 (01:00):
I was fortunate in that regard, But I was sitting
there trying to think of this it because I don't know, Michael,
if I've covered a game quite like this where we
were one Ravens carry away from like Baltimore tripling green
Bay up not only just in rushing yards, but with
rushing attempts. Yeah, and I'd read some stuff about how
one of the criticisms coming out of the game the
(01:22):
week before for Baltimore was that they didn't dedicate enough
to running the ball with Derrick Henry.
Speaker 1 (01:28):
Boy, they turned that.
Speaker 3 (01:29):
On its head in this one and for the first
series seven carries, I think it was forty eight rushing yards.
You just had a feeling right from the get go
this guy it was going to be difficult for the
Packers to try stopping him.
Speaker 1 (01:42):
But the fact that they.
Speaker 3 (01:43):
Were able to stay in third and manageable all afternoon,
every single conversion in the first half, the every single
drive they were able to get points off of it,
that is I think sort of where I put Green
Bay on its heels right away. The run game was
never established. Malik Willis played phenomenally well, but it just
felt like if Green Bay wasn't going to match the
(02:04):
Ravens point for point, possession for possession, this was what
it was going to turn into. What I could not
have seen happening was green Bay actually getting it back
to a one possession game, getting it two twenty seven
to twenty four in the third quarter. But then obviously
Willis gets hurt, things kind of go a different direction.
The defense never does rebound, and Derrick Henry walked out
(02:25):
of lambeau Field with a career performance in a career
that is probably one day going to end up finding
him in Canton.
Speaker 2 (02:31):
Yeah, he was. It was his seventh career two hundred
yard rushing game, his second career four touchdown game. He
is definitely headed to the Pro Football Hall of Fame
at some point, There's no doubt about that. I thought,
in some ways the epitome of this game when you
talk about what Malik Willis was doing, which was phenomenal
on the offensive side of the ball, as Jordan Love
had not cleared concussion protocol in order to be able
(02:54):
to play in this game, so the Packers did turn
to Willis to run the offense again. As he got
the Packers back to twenty seven to twenty four. The
Ravens were on their own twenty yard line and had
third and five. That was the moment you get a
stop there, you're only down by three. Willis was lightening
(03:15):
it up. But what happens on third and five, Tyler
Huntley is in the shotgun, the Ravens backup quarterback playing
for Lamar Jackson. Huntley's in the shotgun. He starts walking
around and hollering at everybody on the offense that he
is changing the play. And on third and five a
basic handoff to Derrick Henry for nine yards. When the
opponent is that confident that they can just check to
(03:38):
a run on third and five and you know, easily
get it by, you know, with a nine yard run,
that just tells you how much they were in control
of the line of scrimmage in this game, and it
was just it was tough sledding for Green Bay's defense.
These are the questions that I came out with that
(04:00):
game with regard to the Packers on the defensive side
of the ball. Okay, so was losing Micah Parsons and
then losing the game in Chicago the way they did
just a week later, was that just this too big
a pile of adversity to try to plow through in
this game against Baltimore. Was all the injuries that continue
(04:23):
to pile up for the Packers, for a team that
has not had a bye week since Week five, is
that something that just started to pile up and get
and get to be too much. I think, ultimately the question,
as the Packers are now two weeks away, less than
two weeks away from a playoff game in either Chicago
or Philadelphia, we have seen Green Bay's defense play two
(04:46):
games without Micah Parsons. We saw them hold the Chicago Bears,
who have a shot at the number two seed and
they are now NFC North champs, hold the Chicago Bears
to three field goals and no touchdowns over fifty eight
minutes without Micah Parsons. But then we saw game number
two without Micah Parsons and the defense look completely different
(05:07):
and in a completely different place. So, which non Micah
Parsons defense is the real one? Which one are the
Packers going to have when the playoffs start and we
get into do or die.
Speaker 3 (05:22):
The optimistic side of you would like to say that
the Chicago Bears defense, sure, But the problem is is
the Packers if you look at it from like a
three round UFC fight here, they came off really strong
in that first round and the second round did not
go well. I think the answer questions we're not going
to really know until the right wild Card game.
Speaker 2 (05:39):
I think that's I think that is the answer. We
don't we won't know until that wild card game kicks.
Speaker 3 (05:44):
Off, but how the bounce back and how they respond
is gonna be very critical the Packers the way that
they're aligned right now, they're missing one of their pivotal
pieces in this equation in Micah Parsons. I think one
thing I learned from this game against the Ravens was
for as much as people wanted to rip on him
(06:04):
for his run defense in Dallas, I think this guy
had and we knew this, he had a much bigger
role in it than probably I think he got credit
for with as much perseveration as people put on the
fact that he was a really good pass rusher and
he had the sacks and he was a pro bowler.
Micah parsons relentless tenacity was also present in the run defense.
Speaker 1 (06:23):
No doubt.
Speaker 3 (06:24):
And when you look at where Green Bay came up
short in this game, and it wasn't on just one
particular player, one particular unit, it was that there were
too many second chances, whether it was Henry, whether it
was Tyler Huntley, and some of the scrambles that he had,
if guys weren't getting players to the turf immediately. They
were dragging piles, they were breaking tackles, and it made
for a very long day. Matt Laflour even said it
(06:44):
on Sunday afternoon, he can't remember the last time he'd
seen a game in which a team a massed over
three hundred rushing yards, and Green Bay it bears out
in the statistics. They fell to fifteenth in run defense,
they fell six places or five places in total defense,
just based on the weight of this performance.
Speaker 1 (07:00):
It's alone, which is.
Speaker 3 (07:01):
Not easy to do in week seventeen, sixteen games into
a season. So for the Packers, it is going to
be about the bounce back here. What gives me solace,
what gives me some confidence in this is that they
have their linebackers intact, potentially maybe getting We'll see what
happens today. We don't wan announce anything yet, but reports
are out there that Jonathan Ford was claimed. We'll see
what happens with his situation by the time this post.
(07:23):
But he's a guy with experience in this defense. A
monstrous nose tackle because now it looks like, well, we
know they're not gonna have Jordan Riley the rest of
the way because of his achilles injury. So how do
the Packers take what happened to them and put their
best foot forward? Because whether or not at Saquon Barkley
in Philadelphia, whether or not it's you know, DeAndre Swift,
(07:44):
Kyle man Ungui, they are gonna have to deal with
a decent running back couple of them in that first
game of the playoffs. They can't have another performance like
this if they expect there to be a second game.
Speaker 2 (07:55):
No, absolutely not. And here's the thing. I am not
a football I don't know Jack Squatt about x's and
o's when it comes to NFL football. But here's here's
the thing. From a from a leadership standpoint, I think
you try to stand in front of the defensive room
(08:17):
and hammer home the message that the narrative out there
right now is that this defense isn't worth anything without
Micah Parsons because that's what they put on the field
most recently on Saturday night. Now we know that that's
not true because of how they played against Chicago, but everybody, always,
the most recent thing that you've done is where the
(08:39):
narrative is headed. And you know this meaningless week eighteen
game against Minnesota is not going to change anything one
way or another. But this defense has the guys in
that defensive room are gonna have one more chance to
change that narrative, that the narrative that's out there now
that they aren't they aren't good enough without Micah Parsons,
(09:02):
I think there's gonna be a level of pride. I
think there's going to be uh, there's going to be
some determination to say that is that is not how
this defense is going to be remembered. Just just my
thought in terms of whatever motivation there might be, how
you how you bounce back from this? And and I
(09:23):
and I will say this. I mean you and I
were both thinking I know you were as well as I.
With two minutes left at Soldier Field, we were thinking
this was a Packers team that had a realistic shot
at the number two seed in the NFC. And suddenly,
very quickly, as often happens in this league, everything changed.
And now with one game left to go in the
(09:45):
regular season, the Packers are locked into the seven seed,
the bottom seed in the NFC. They can't do anything
about that. That's where they are. If there is any
silver lining to this, it is that Unlike last year
when Christian and Watson blows out his knee in the
regular season finale and Jordan love injures his hand and
(10:05):
has to leave that game against the Bears to end
the regular season before you go to Philly for the
wildcard round, this Packers team now actually has a chance
to reset and to regroup both mentally and physically, as
banged up as they are before you head out into
the postseason. Maybe that is going to help this team, especially,
(10:29):
as I mentioned before, a team that had its bye
week way back in Week five. So just maybe, just
maybe that's a silver lining here. As much as yeah,
you would love to be either the two or the
three seed, which if you had won the game in Chicago,
you would have put yourself in position to potentially get there.
That's not happening. You're the number seven seed. But maybe
(10:51):
you can use this to your advantage in some way.
Speaker 3 (10:54):
You took away I think one of my big points
I was going to make on Thursday show, but let's
get to it now. I mean, this is the week. Well,
it's an excellent point. Not that I would have said
it as clearly as you did, but this is what
I was gonna say, I think when you look at
the motivations for this finale against Minnesota, it's twofold. I
think offensively, it's keeping that what you have as healthy
(11:15):
as possible. And if that means sitting guys, if that
means resting guys, if that means guys working a limited
count against Minnesota.
Speaker 1 (11:21):
Fine yeap.
Speaker 3 (11:21):
Defensively, I do look at it as a get right
opportunity for numerous reasons. One, somebody's got to play. You
only have fifty three guys on a roster. You can
only activate elevate two extras from the pres.
Speaker 2 (11:33):
You don't have thirty five guys like you do in
the preseason on the roster who are not going to
make it that you can just you know, throw out there.
You don't have those options.
Speaker 3 (11:41):
So as dangerous as the Vikings defense is, and it
is a good one, I mean that was my takeaway
from that game against that they played against Detroit. It
won them the game offensively, regardless of whether or not
JJ McCarthy fights through it to Brosmer plays, the Packers
are going to face a much different offense than what
they saw against baltim More into some extent, what they
saw against Chicago. I think there's gonna be some a
(12:04):
need almost to build some positib momentum up. Also, why,
while identifying who are we gonna play in the playoffs,
which defensive tackles are you gonna have out there? What
is the edge rush rotation going to?
Speaker 1 (12:17):
Look like?
Speaker 3 (12:18):
My heart sinks? It goes out to Kamal Hadden, who
unfortunately suffered what appears to be a season ending injury
at the same moment he was finally gonna get his
shot on defense after we had heard Jeff Haffley talking
about how we got to find a way to get
this guy on the field the way he's been practicing.
So there's opportunities still in this defense for guys to
(12:38):
show that they can be a part of this thing
and can help this team win a championship or make
a run in the playoffs. I think this Minnesota game
could go a long way in determining, Okay, when we
get out on the field, whether it's Soldier field or
whether they're at the link, what that defense, the starting
eleven and the rotations that come after it look like.
Speaker 2 (12:56):
Yeah, I think that's a that's definitely a good way
to look at it. The injuries. The injuries haven't stopped
for this team. You already mentioned Riley and hadden't two
guys that look like they were going to be able
to help this team down the stretch. I thought Jordan
Riley was a big part of the run defense in
Chicago in trying to put the clamps on that that
(13:17):
one two running back punch of the Bears. Those two
guys now lost for the season. Zan Anderson Nate Hobbs
also go down with injuries. Devant Dontavian excuse me, Wicks
also exits the game with a concussion. So it just
it just feels like the injuries haven't stopped for this team.
(13:37):
And at the time that we're taping this, we're not
exactly sure what the Packers approach is going to be
against Minnesota in terms of who's going to play, who's
going to rest. Are guys going to be on limited
snap counts? As you said, we'll find out more information
about that as the week goes along. But hopefully you know,
(13:58):
whether you're talking you know Zach tom who's missed a
couple of games now with his knee injury. Evan Williams
had come back from the knee injury, but maybe he
gets a chance to get a little bit healthier for
the playoffs. There are some there are There are a
lot of things, a lot of considerations here looking at
this finale against against Minnesota and a Vikings team that
(14:22):
quite frankly, whether it's JJ McCarthy or Max Brosmer, it's
a Vikings team that's gonna come out pretty fired up.
They have a chance to end their season on a
five game winning streak and finish above five hundred. When
you know a month and a half ago there you
know they were going nowhere.
Speaker 3 (14:37):
That's what Kevin O'Connell does. He's done this numerous times.
He finds a way. They got that defensive coordinator hier
right a couple of years ago. Now there's talks now
about how they want to make sure they extend him
if he's not getting a head coaching opportunity elsewhere. They
want to be able to keep Brian Flores in the
In the fold, I think they should Again.
Speaker 1 (14:53):
Why why wouldn't Why wouldn't you?
Speaker 3 (14:55):
Yeah, and we'll we'll look at the previous week here
at the end of the show. But before I get
too far down the loa, let's just really quickly point
out why this Packers game against the Ravens was even close,
and that was Malik Willis. Yeah, and the fact that
so if you're looking for silver linings, you're looking for
things to hang your hat on. Malik Willis does not
get any practice reps right, very few first team reps
(15:18):
because Jordan Love going through the protocol for the first
two practices preparing for a game in which the Packers
need to win to get in until actually they learned that,
you know, the Lions had been knocked out. That whole
process was geared up for number ten. He does not
get cleared in time for the game. So Malik Willis
goes in there in the Packers. How many teams in
the National Football League, Michael, with their backup quarterback are
(15:41):
going to call for a go ball to Romeo Dobbs
on the first play, in a deep crosser on the
second play, or you know, kind of a steam route
down the middle to Christian Watson the second play. Two
plays seventy nine yards, forty minutes of time of possession
for Baltimore in this game. But the explosive plays on
Green Bay side. In addition to the fact that inability
to stop. Derrick Henry contributed to that.
Speaker 2 (16:04):
Yeah, it is. It is remarkable what Malik Willis has
done the last couple of weeks on essentially limited or
no practice reps. Obviously, heading into Chicago, he was just
doing the usual backup quarterback thing, and Jordan Love is
taking all the practice reps leading into that game. And
then with this one, as you said, the Packers are
trying to get Love through, trying to get Love through
(16:26):
the concussion protocol, and Willis not only is dealing with
an injury to his throwing shoulder, so he's already going
to be limited in that respect. He ends up missing
an entire day because of the illness whatever this bug
was that was going through the locker room, and guys
kept cropping up on the injury report. With with this
(16:48):
illness thing, he essentially misses an entire day of preparation
for the game. And then, as you said, he goes
out there and with the Packers down seven to nothing,
two plays, bing boom, they go the length of the field.
They're in the end zone, and I was like, Okay,
here's the big contrast. The Ravens are going to try
to grind this thing out and the Packers are going
to try to, you know, explode offensively whenever they can.
(17:12):
And I mean Malik Willis. I hate to use the joke,
but it was almost like when he did have to
leave the game at the end, you would have thought
it was a back injury because in some ways he
was putting the whole dang team on his back to
try to win this game on Saturday.
Speaker 3 (17:27):
Yeah, and I felt bad for him too, because, like,
for a second there, I'm like, oh, shoot, please don't
tell me, you know, towards laborhm or something like that.
But the way he went down, he wasn't a hit.
It was after a really you know, laser throw he
had on Christian Watson on the out route. He just
the guy's going to make money this offseason. He's going
(17:47):
to get an opportunity to start somewhere at least compete
for that job. You can't be happier for him. I'm
blown away by the fact that the Packers got him
for the two under at thirty ninth pick in last
year's draft. The Packers had been struggling to kind of
identify that QB two for a while. Other than the
fact that they drafted Jordan Love in the first round
back in twenty twenty. Then he filled that role for
(18:07):
two years. They'd really there's been a multiple years there
were Green Bay probably a dance with Fire, a little
bit behind Aaron Rodgers, and here he is and Malik Willis,
who has not only just been a great compliment to
Jordan Love, but the Packers don't make the playoffs probably
last year without him, and in this year again showing
how competitive he was when he had to go in
against the Giants would end up being a one score game.
(18:29):
He held the four together, he let his scoring drive.
The guy just checks every box. And I don't know
what his long term forecast is going to be. I
don't make any predictions on what his career numbers are
going to be, but for what the Packers have asked
him to do the last two years, I've been blown
away by it. And when you don't, you don't, you're
not on Instagram at all. But there was this graphic
from the NFL network or it was actually the NFL
(18:51):
League the league account where it was his numbers, which
was two hundred and eighty eight yards passing career high
over three hundred yards total yards when you add in
the sixty rushing three touchdowns, and the amount of players
on the Packers roster that post that reposted that to
their story Offensive defense. If there must have been thirty
guys that did that. The amount of respect that they
(19:12):
have for Willis in addition to Jordan Love, but the
mount of respect they have for Willis and what he's
done and the way he carries himself in the professionalism
he's shown over the last two years, I think goes
a long way in addition to the fact that he
was running out there with Christian Watson and Romeo Dobbs,
and I mean, you have any questions about whether or
not this guy can be someone you can build a
team around, or he can compliment what you already have.
(19:34):
In a league starve for quarterbacks, the Packers happen to
have two very good ones.
Speaker 2 (19:37):
Yeah, it's just too bad. If his shoulder hadn't started
to bother him and he hadn't had to come out,
if you were able to stay in at that point,
it was a ten point game. The Packers were kind
of on the fringe of field goal range there where
you're looking at And he even said after the game
he was so disappointed he had to come out because
he knew the situation. He's like, hey, we're either going
to get three or get seven. There, you're going to
(19:58):
be back within one score. Maybe the defense can get
a stop, you know, and give you that opportunity, and
all that kind of went out to.
Speaker 3 (20:05):
Win the way he ran to the locker room and
then ran out of the locker room too. The people
there was a like a huge disappointing hush when he
went running off the field after the trainers looked at him,
and then when he came out. Unfortunately for the Packers
their defense. You know, Baltimore was moving the ball, but
the evation that there was when Number two came out
of the Packers tunnel potentially being back in the game remarkable.
Speaker 2 (20:27):
Yeah. All right, well, I want to take a look
at the NFC playoff picture in general, kind of a
big picture look. But we'll pay some bills first and
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Wisconsin dot com slash Wonders. Welcome back to Packers unscripted
All right, Wes. The scenarios for the Packers are really
pretty simple because Green Bay is either going to be
(21:32):
traveling to Chicago or to Philadelphia. Either the Bears or
the Eagles will be the number two seed. The Packers
are the seven, the Bears are the ones in control
of it. If they win against the Lions, they are
the two seed and Green Bay will go to Chicago.
If the Bears lose, and if the Eagles win their
game against the Commanders, then the Eagles would leapfrog them
(21:54):
for the two seed and the Packers would go to Philadelphia,
and I know people are to ask us all week long, Okay,
you know which one would you rather have? And whatever.
I don't really look at it like that. I don't.
I'm not. I don't think it's worth trying to spend
any time, you know, which one would you prefer. The
thing that I think is interesting is that there's sort
(22:15):
of that there's there's an element of revenge or payback
to both of these potential opponents because a of what
happened at Soldier Field a couple of weeks ago, and
b the fact that the Packers season last year ended
in Philadelphia and the Eagles came into lambeau Field this
year on a Monday night and beat Green Bay. So
(22:36):
you kind of have the revenge payback angle whichever way
this falls.
Speaker 3 (22:42):
Last year, I was really into this if for the
Packer's sake, I wanted the sixth seed, and I think
the statistics and the history bears that out. Washington got
the sixth seed, they went to Tampa, beat Tampa, and next.
Speaker 1 (22:54):
Thing you know, they're in the NFC Championship. Right they
went on a huge run.
Speaker 3 (22:58):
I think Green Bay could have had that if they
would have been able to get that six seat because
the way Philly was playing at the end of last year.
A lot of stuff happened in that first quarter in
that game, the wildcard game with the Packers, but Philly
was a team that was hitting its peak at the
right time. Last year. I was a little bit more
fearsome there. This year, I wrote an insider inbox say
it's a horse apiece to me, I don't really care.
(23:18):
Whatever happens happens, the narratives will be what they are.
The difficult thing that the tough part of that Green
Bay that me, if I was a professional athlete, which
I'm very much not, I would have a hard time
putting the back of my mind is it was the
number two seed really was right there for green Bay.
Speaker 2 (23:33):
Yep. It was.
Speaker 1 (23:34):
In addition to the fact.
Speaker 3 (23:35):
To what happened at the end of the Bears game
with the Bears losing in pretty heartbreaking fashion to the
forty nine Ers. The Packers win that game, you'd be
looking at this week now. Maybe green Bay it would
change their strategy. I don't know how they would have
handled it, But if the Packers would be in a
position right now with a win over the Vikings and
of what could very easily be a loss for the
Bears to the Lions.
Speaker 1 (23:56):
Bears will be favored, but.
Speaker 3 (23:57):
I mean, anything can happen, Dan, and it's a talented team.
Jared Goff's had a really good season. It's been some
of the things around him defensively that I think have
fallen apart somewhat in the second half, But it all
could have been there for Green Bay to be in
the two. That being said, wash that out, throw it away.
(24:18):
The Packers are in a position now where, out of
everything that's happened, three game losing streak right now, losing
that chance at the division title. Realistically, if you can
put that out of your mind, the only thing you've
lost is the opportunity to host that first playoff game
and maybe more after that. But you gave that away
because now Seattle San Francisco, one of those two teams,
(24:38):
is going to take this to the conference and it's
going to take that number one scene in the bye.
You gotta find a way to push yourself forward. But yeah,
I mean to have it go the way that it
went on Saturday night. It leaves a bad taste in
your mouth. But if you can just in some way
compartmentalize that, realize that you didn't lose that much. It's
just that you gave up an opportunity to gain something.
Speaker 2 (25:00):
Yeah, and I and I think, having been around professional
football players as long as I have, I think the
players in that locker room are mentally what's going to
be on their mind is more so how they played
and how they looked and how things went, not so
(25:20):
much the whole seeding and whatever, you know, opportunity that's
for all of us on the outset to parse, to
analyze and whatnot. It's it's very interesting how these last
couple of things are are coming together in the NFC.
As you mentioned, Seattle and San Francisco will be playing
each other for the one seed, and we're kind of
(25:46):
it's it's almost the exact same, pretty close to the
exact same scenario as last year when the final game
was Detroit and Minnesota and the winner was going to
get the one seed and the first drawn by and
the loser drive all the way to the five and
is going to have to go on the road as
a wildcard team. The difference in this case is that
(26:07):
where that five seed goes, the four seed is going
to be the NFC South champion, which is the division
that nobody seems to want to win.
Speaker 1 (26:15):
Except for the teams that are out of contention right exactly.
Speaker 2 (26:17):
The Saints and the Falcons are the two teams playing
the best football in the NFC South right now, but
neither one of them can win the division. It's still
between Carolina and Tampa Bay. And what a crazy scenario now,
right because the NFL put that game on Saturday afternoon,
it was looking like it would be the winner wins
the division. The loser is out, you know, But now
(26:39):
because of the Falcons knocking off the Rams on Monday
Night Football in Week seventeen, the Panthers, it's still they win,
they win the division, they get in. But the Buccaneers,
if the Buccaneers are able to beat the Panthers on Saturday,
then they have to sit at home on Sunday and
hope that the Saints can beat the Falcons to prevent
(27:00):
a three way tie atop the NFC. Yeah, it's it's
it is entirely possible. But if the Buccaneers, the Buccaneers
are no longer in just a win to get in scenario.
They have to win and then they have to get
help on Sunday because if it's a three way tie
with all of with three teams at eight and nine
at the top of the division, the Panthers are the
(27:22):
team that has the tie breaker, and they would they
would get in. Whoever does win that division, Buccaneers or Panthers,
they get the four seed, they get to host the
loser of Seattle and San Francisco, because if I have
it right, the Rams can no longer get the five
because they lost on their conference Yeah, they can no
(27:45):
longer get the five because they lost on Monday night.
So the loser of Seahawks and forty nine ers is
going to travel to the winner of the NFC South,
which is not necessarily a bad spot to be in,
but we saw how difficult it was for the Vikings
last year with so much on the line in that
final regular season game, they don't get it done and
(28:08):
then they go on the road as the five seed
and suddenly, boom, you know, one in in a span
of eight days, you go from playing for the one
seed in the conference to your.
Speaker 1 (28:17):
Seasons over correct.
Speaker 2 (28:18):
And that's the that's the danger that that the loser
of that West Coast game is facing.
Speaker 3 (28:26):
Yeah, and Atlanta had Atlanta had a weird year, but
Kirk Cousins goes back in there. They got a little
bit healthier. Bjeon Robinson did what he did and that
game on Monday Night football reminds you again and Sean
McVay said it afterwards.
Speaker 1 (28:39):
This league will humble you.
Speaker 3 (28:40):
I know, Packer fans here, Matt Leffleur say it, and
they say, well, that's what every This league will humble you.
And the Rams. You look at Matthew Stafford. He went
from being what some people consider to be an MVP
favorite to maybe that performance itself handed that award to
Drake may Well.
Speaker 1 (28:58):
We'll have to wait and see.
Speaker 3 (28:59):
That's up to the AP voter. But it's been one
of those type of seasons. And for Tampa Bay, they
have now lost seven of eight since their bye week.
A team we focus a lot on Indianapolis because the
injuries there, Daniel Jones, Philip Rivers comes back, they start
seven to one, they missed the playoffs. Tampa Bay is
in the middle of a potential huge collapse and I
(29:19):
honestly think there could be no bigger slap in the face.
And if they would beat Carolina in the scenario falls
then when they still don't get.
Speaker 2 (29:26):
In, they still don't get in, right, which is very.
Speaker 3 (29:29):
Possible with the way Atlanta's one of the hottest teams
in the league right now and they have nothing to
play for.
Speaker 1 (29:34):
Crazy.
Speaker 2 (29:35):
Yeah, And we were even just talking a week or
two ago about what New Orleans is doing with Kellen Moore,
the new head coach, and they've got, you know, Tyler Schuck,
the rookie quarterback who's kind of taken the reins there,
and I mean it's just it's it's really interesting what's
going on, because they are going to be a couple
of teams in the NFC South that are not going
(29:56):
to make the playoffs who are sort of, you know,
they have a lot to look forward, yeah, you know,
moving forward. And as you said, I mean Tampa Bay.
Speaker 1 (30:06):
I mean.
Speaker 2 (30:08):
Maybe the ultimate sort of perfect ridiculous scenario in the
NFC South is for Tampa Bay to finally find itself
blow out the Carolina Panthers by three touchdowns and then
still not get in because Falcons end up beating the
Saints and the Panthers get in. Anyway, it just sort
of feels like the way this season is gone that's
(30:29):
something crazy like that is how this is going to end.
Speaker 3 (30:31):
And then look at what's happening now with Sunday Night football, right,
I mean the Packers, thank you Aaron Rodgers. He's the
one that helps set this thing up for the Packers
to clinch the playoff. Green Bay isn't able to pay
back the favor. But at the same time, Pittsburgh EN's
a falling short against Cleveland six points. It's just the
way these teams get tripped up. And I actually thought
I think it kind of got a little bit viral
for the wrong reasons.
Speaker 1 (30:51):
I actually thought Miles.
Speaker 3 (30:52):
Garrett made a pretty good point in saying that there
was so much focus it felt like on stopping him
watching that game, it felt that way.
Speaker 1 (30:58):
That it was like, give up the sack, get up
the sack.
Speaker 3 (31:00):
You got to win the game, And it felt like
sometimes there was just so much attention devoted to him
that they didn't. And honestly, the more I watch Pittsburgh too,
the more you got to get that ball in Kenneth
Gainwell's hands.
Speaker 1 (31:11):
That is your guy.
Speaker 3 (31:13):
He's taken a unique path, but they were forcing balls outside.
You don't have DK Metcalf and the result is the result.
Speaker 2 (31:20):
I saw something really interesting and I'm gonna end with
this because it's sort of apropos of nothing. Twenty years ago,
as a rookie, Aaron Rodgers came off the bench on
a Monday night game in Baltimore in a game the
Packers were getting clobbered. But earlier in that game, Deon
Sanders had an interception. And then twenty years later, Aaron
(31:41):
Rodgers is quarterbacking a game where the opposing quarterback is
Dion Sanders Son crazy Shedur Sanders. That's wild, bro.
Speaker 1 (31:49):
I wait, that is nuts. You know what I call that?
Speaker 3 (31:51):
Right? I have my own theory on this. I always
called that the Disney World theory, which is when you
go to Disney World, there's people that are there for
the first hour, there are people that are leaving in
an hour.
Speaker 1 (32:00):
There's people that have been there for a week, there's
people that just arrived.
Speaker 3 (32:02):
I love this type of stuff in the NFL because
this is the spaceship that they're on. Yeah, you know,
Rogers twenty plus seasons in the National Football League. He
sticks around long enough to be around there where Shador
Sanders is getting a start after Dion Sanders retires for
a few years and then returns with the Baltimore Ravens.
It's just these are the type of things I think
make the NFL world go round and also an incredible
(32:26):
testament to the longevity that Rogers has had to still
be playing the game at forty two years old.
Speaker 2 (32:30):
Yeah, definitely. Well, it's going to be an interesting Week
eighteen in the NFL, even if there isn't so much
interest in the Packers and the Vikings. This week, we
will talk more.
Speaker 1 (32:40):
We will have it though. You and I will be interesting.
We will be there.
Speaker 2 (32:43):
We will be there with Bells on right after the
new year, and we'll talk a little bit more about
that matchup on our next show. But for now, we're
going to call it a rap on this edition of
Packers Unscript. I'd be sure to continue following all of
our coverage of the team on Packers dot com for Wes, Iam, Mike,
thank you for tune and everybody. We will see Hike's time.
Speaker 3 (33:04):
M
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