Patriots Catch-22 10/29: Extension/Trades/Potential Moves, 3 Up/Down vs. Browns, Falcons Preview

Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:08):
This is the Patriots Catch twenty two podcasts with Evan
Lazar and Alex Bar.

Speaker 2 (00:13):
Blazarre and Lazarn So everybody nailed it, joined as always
by our bar gap gap. Here is Evan Lazar and
Alex Bars. This is a trend. They are as close
starting defense, they get beat by the script yep, then
the game declares I have seen on film. You know,

(00:34):
they do get better as the game where is on
the coverage improves as a result of path rush is
improving throughout the entire game. They have a good run defense.
They're not giving up much on the ground. Their defense
PostScript is a top ten defense in the NFL. Well,
same exact formula this week. Yet, uh, it's funny and

(00:57):
I I think about this way too much because I
think about all this stuff way too much. Of like,
how much does their early game struggles really matter? Because
if they keep on just closing the door on the
third drive on from the game right and they give up,
I don't know even in a bad day. Let's say
they give up fourteen points early in the game on

(01:19):
back to back dr eves and they don't give up
any points the rest of the game, then Drake may
is gonna score seventeen and they're gonna win the game.
So it's just like, I don't know how much any
of it matters. But their script versus nonscript, we'll get
into that in a little bit, is crazy. The splits
like literally worse to first, Like they're the worst defense
in the league in the beginning of the game and
they're the best defense in the league in the second half.

(01:41):
It's pretty incredible. Anyways, jumping right into it at Alex
bart Evan Lazar Patriots Catch twenty two with you for
the next couple of hours here talking Patriots football. I
want it. I was all prepared, Alex to talk about
this Browns game, the good, the bad, the stuff that
gets you beat from this game against Cleveland, and then
the last night or yesterday, I should say, really starting

(02:02):
around noon with the Marcus Jones extension. The Patriots has
made a lot of news. They all of a sudden
had a busy day. So I want to start with
the news of the day yesterday with the three transactions,
and then we'll also get into this Browns game. And
then I do want to talk a little bit about
the Falcons because I find the Falcons to be a

(02:23):
pretty fascinating team. They are because I look at them
on paper and I say, it's good football team. You know,
you got some star power. They got a lot of
skill talent on the offensive side of the ball. Bjon
Robinson maybe the best running back in football this year.
But they don't win. They're three and four and they're
just jackal and hide operations. So I do want to

(02:43):
talk a little bit of Falcons in the second hour,
but let's start with the news. I want to start
with the good news first, and then we'll get to
the two trades and discuss those and unpack those. Marcus
Jones gets a contract extension yesterday with the Patriots, a
three year deal reportedly around you know, twelve million annually
somewhere around there, really good deal for both sides, right

(03:05):
around the let's call it the median of the top
ten slot corners in football. You know, most of those
guys get in between twelve and fifteen million dollars a year,
so he comes right around there with that number. I
think this is really a big news for the Patriots
because when you looked at their twenty twenty six free
agency class, his name, along probably with Tonga and Chase

(03:29):
On stood above the rest of They got to take
care of these guys, and they got to get these
guys under contract beyond the season. So the Patriots get
out in front of it. One of the best slock
corners in football this year and one of the best
punt returners in football really for the last three or
four years. So a really good football player, and Marcus

(03:50):
Jones does it the right way. Team captain. I don't
really have anything else to add other than I thought
this was a really shrewd move and a good thing
for the Patriots to keep him around. Yeah, good, good deal.

Speaker 1 (04:01):
They don't have to reset the market to bring back
a player that I think is you know, is really
a testament to the job this coaching staff is done
and how quickly the adjustment has happened here, because I think,
you know, back in the summer, there were some questions
about how good of a fit is Marcus Jones and
this defense. People were wondering about his roster standing and

(04:22):
if he can take the team and are they going
to want a bigger slot corner. And I think he
worked on different area of his areas of his game
that maybe we didn't see as much in the past
if they did into this new role, and then I
think the coaches kind of changed that role a little
bit from what it traditionally is in this defense to
more fit him, and they kind of met in the middle,
and the result is a guy having a tremendous season.

(04:42):
And that's not even to mention what he gives you
on special teams as a punt returner. So to get
this done, not reset the market doing it, and it
you mentioned some of the free agents, I think he
was going to be in a tier of his own
going into this offseason. Yeah, in terms of their internal
agents like Calebon Chase on the full list of here,

(05:03):
Calebon Chase, On Kiris Tonga, Austin Hooper, Jack Gibbons, Jalen Hawkins,
Udarien Low, and then they have some restricted free agents
or whatever.

Speaker 2 (05:09):
But those are the unrestricted guys. That's a group.

Speaker 1 (05:13):
I mean, we'll see what happens to Chase on down
the stretch, but that's a group that they should be
able to take care of relatively easily. You know, you
don't You're not really gonna have to cover any new ground.
I would think resigning any of those guys, and you
want that to do list in terms of the internal guys,
to be as short as possible going into the offseason.
So when that Monday in March hits boom, you're on
the phone with new players right so to.

Speaker 2 (05:35):
Get this done.

Speaker 1 (05:36):
When they got it done, check that box, I think
is very encouraging.

Speaker 2 (05:40):
You bring up a good point about the scheme. Fit
in some doubt this offseason about whether or not he
was the right type of slot corner for this defense,
and Mike Rabels said it. They preferred in the past
bigger slots, you know, kind of slot safety types that
could you know, fit the run and set the edge

(06:01):
and be the force to The big reason why is
because of the way they're stopping the run. From a
fit perspective, the nickel corner and the safeties now have
more responsibilities in the run fit to set the edge
of the defense or to be the force in the
defense to push the ball, you know, back inside. And
when you put a five 't eight hundred and ninety

(06:22):
pound and eighty pounds slot corner at the point of attack,
you worry about his ability to hold up against the run.
But to his credit, Marcus Jones plays a lot bigger
than his size would indicate, and he's willing to stick
his nose in there. He's fearless, he's willing to set
the edge, he's willing to take on blocks. Now, in
terms of the longevity of this contract, you do kind

(06:47):
of worry a little bit about his health and him
holding up playing like this for three more years. But
that's an issue for down the line and not an
issue for this season. And I don't really think next
season either, like maybe becomes something that we're talking about
in like the end of the contract in twenty seven
or twenty Well, he's also.

Speaker 1 (07:06):
And it's I mean it's through his age thirty season.
It's not like they're asking him to do this at
thirty two to thirty three years old.

Speaker 2 (07:10):
Yeah, just between playing as much as he is on defense,
would like right around seventy five percent of the snaps
on defense, and then also returning punts as a full
time punt returner. You just something, as this contract kind
of matures, is just to watch, you know, in terms
of that. But nothing but good things to say in
terms of Marcus Jones, the person, the player on and

(07:32):
off the field, has really become a captain and a
leader for this defense. Tone center for this defense, and
he's playing terrific football this season basically by every statistic
you know, number one in the league and passer rating
among slot corners, number one in the league in terms
of interceptions by slot corners pass defense. You know, really

(07:54):
having a great year playing inside, and it's a it's
a good thing that you know, they lock him up. Now.
In terms of the trades, I think let's start with
Kyle Dugger. So the Patriots sent Kyle Dugger for pick
swap to Pittsburgh, and just really before we kind of
unpack both trades, like I just want to put this
out there, and I'm not carrying anybody's water, but if

(08:16):
you think that the Patriots turned down better offers, like
I know, these returns come back and people are shocked
by how little they got back for these two players,
I promise you that if there was bigger returns out
there for Kyle Dugger and Keon White, the Patriots would
have taken them. Like if somebody was offering them a
third round pick for Keon White, they were not going
to ship him to San Francisco for a pick swap

(08:38):
like they were going to take the third round play.
So they put these guys out on the market. Kyle
dugger has been available really since the offseason, probably and
since at least training camp, and they've been scouring for
trade partners for these two players and haven't really been
able to find one until now. So I don't think
that their markets were very robust, which is disappointing, but

(09:00):
that's just the reality of the situation. When I look
at the Kyle Duggart trade, what I see is trying
to get out of paying him in twenty twenty six
and twenty twenty seven. He had a lot of money
do left on that extension that he signed last offseason,
and so by making this trade they free up about
seven million dollars next year and then seventeen million dollars

(09:23):
I believe it is in twenty twenty seven. Now, I'm
not necessarily too caught up in the cap space of
it all. I'm more looking at the actual cash in
this situation where if you are looking your Mike Rabel
and Elliot Wolf and Ryan Cowden, and you're looking to
add players to this roster, whether it's before the deadline

(09:43):
on Tuesday or next offseason, not having to pay Kyle
Duggar's money now allows you to allocate that ten million
dollars someplace else, whether it's now or next off season.
So it's always about the cash. With these NFL teams.
They have plenty of cap space. That's not it's not
a cap space maneuver, but what it does allow them

(10:06):
to do now is maybe go and take that money
and package it to go get another player, whether it's
now or down the road. So when I look at
the Dugger trade, that's really what this is about to
me is getting out of what ended up being for
their system and all that kind of stuff. A little
bit of a bad contract.

Speaker 1 (10:26):
Yeah, I mean, well they're paying a backup safety fifteen
million dollars. Yeah, that's just not good business. And right,
just to bring it back to what we talked about
with Marcus Jones, they have more financial flexibility now, and
like we said, they don't have a ton to do
in terms of internal free agents. Now, there are some
guys that are you know, you can maybe get ahead
with on extensions. Christian Salz is going to be eligible,

(10:47):
Kasehon Booty is going to be eligible. Drake may not yet,
but you keep that in mind. You know that's coming
down the road.

Speaker 2 (10:55):
So they just it.

Speaker 1 (10:57):
It gives them some more flexibility to either get ahead
on some extensions or work the external free agent market
or what have you. I will add I thought it
was interesting when I was talking with David Andrews on Monday,
he mentioned, I mean, we're getting ahead of ourselves now,
but he just brought this up.

Speaker 2 (11:14):
I didn't really thought of it.

Speaker 1 (11:15):
Like, and you listen, do you hear what Miles Garrett
said about Drake May after the game?

Speaker 2 (11:22):
I mean a little bit of it. I don't remember
what it was.

Speaker 1 (11:24):
He was very, very complimentary. He said he's proud of
Drake May. I went back and looked him. Do they
have a relationship that he's talking about him like this?

Speaker 2 (11:32):
So I think they were at the Pro Bowl together.

Speaker 1 (11:35):
Okay, last look, I Miles Garrett is probably not gonna
be available, just for a number of different reasons.

Speaker 2 (11:41):
But like.

Speaker 1 (11:43):
The they're going to have an easier time recruiting players
here than they've had in the past because of Drake May.
So that financial flexibility. People hear that and be like,
well they got to good free agents. I think it's
going to be easier than it's been in the past.

Speaker 2 (11:55):
Yeah. Well, see, I mean, look the biggest thing to
me when it comes to free agents and all that
next offseason, and is you spend a lot of money
this past off season. Yeah, And this is just again,
this is universal across the board in sports. When you
have a big spending spree one off season, you usually
don't go out and spend three hundred million more dollars

(12:16):
the next offseason. It's just not well.

Speaker 1 (12:18):
But I mean, there's there's happy medium between the two. Right,
maybe you don't have the whole spree, but you make
one splash signing.

Speaker 2 (12:24):
Sure, I'm just telling you, I don't expect them to
go out.

Speaker 1 (12:29):
I don't think they're gonna be the biggest spenders in
free agency for two years in a row.

Speaker 2 (12:33):
Right, That's just not how it works in any sport.
So I don't expect that to happen. Now. Last thing
on Dugger, because I do think that there is conversations
both with him Andrebriel Peppers, who ironically are not going
to play together in Pittsburgh, about why exactly we got here,
specifically to Kyle Dugger. One element of this is definitely scheme,

(12:56):
which we can get to here in a second. But
I also think that in injury last year, that he
tried to play through and then had off season surgery
on it. This past offseason, he just hasn't gotten the
explosiveness that we saw early on in his career. He's
not necessarily moving as well as he once did, and

(13:18):
I don't know if that's ever going to fully recover.
I hope it does for his sake, but I don't
know if that's ever going to fully recover. And we
see this happen. Sometimes you have to reinvent yourself. You
know one guy that did is obviously Kashan Boody. Yeah,
you know, credit to him. You know, Kasehan Boody early
on at LSU was an explosive, you know, catch and

(13:39):
run threat, and then he had that really bad ankle
injury in college, didn't really get that gear back and
has said so publicly that he's had to adjust his game.
So whether Kyle Dugger becomes a linebacker, whether Kyle Dugger
becomes just a situational player like he was here for
the rest of his career, I don't know. But that

(14:00):
ankle injury I think derailed a lot of things because
I think he was a good football player preach. OK.
The other thing is, of course is the way that
they're scheming it right now defensively in terms of playing
a lot as a zone coverage, specifically a lot of
too deep zone coverage, more than they ever have and
let's call it the next last decade or so. Obviously

(14:23):
it's not a Bill defense anymore, and it's very different
from that. So they just wanted types of safeties like
Jalen Hawkins and Craig Woodson who will a faster cover
more ground on the back end, can play those deep
safety zones, and that's just not really Kyle Duggar's game.
So he kind of was phased out from a scheme
perspective in this defense. And then I do think he's

(14:45):
probably lost half a step from that ankle injury as well,
and those two things kind of came together that that
led to his demise here with the Patriots. Keon White
the other one traded last night. The thing about Keon
White that's it out to me both from a play
style perspective and then also just from an optics perspective.

(15:06):
I like Keon White. I never had any issues with
Keon White. I don't know if Keon White is the
type of guy that you want to be disgruntled in
your locker room, like if he's not playing and he
doesn't have a role. Keon White is one of those
guys that's really intense, that's really confident in his abilities
and wants to play. And the Niners had a need

(15:28):
on the edge. They have lost some bodies on their
defensive line this season to injuries. The Patriots had the
opposite where Keon White was sort of being pigeonholed into
a role that really didn't fit his skill set. Trying
to develop him into a true four to three defensive end,
playing you know, the seven or the nine technique all

(15:49):
the way outside the tackle. His movement skills, he's just
too rigid, he's too stiff, he's not benny enough. He
doesn't have that first step to turn the corner out there.
He is a much better interior pass rusher. But the Patriots,
that's probably their deepest position on this roster, and Christian
Barmore and Milton Williams, as long as those two guys

(16:10):
stay healthier, not coming off the field right. So he's
a little too small to play inside on early downs.
He's a little bit too big and stiff to play
outside on early downs. They don't really have a third
down pass rush role for him because Milton Williams and
Barmore are in that role. So unless they're really all
he was doing on this roster was serving as injury

(16:31):
insurance in case somebody got hurt and there just wasn't
enough playing time for him. So if I'm the Niners,
and I don't think they're going to based off of
some of the reporting out of San Francisco, but the
role for Keon White is third down interior pass rush,
like that's that's his specialty when he gets to rush
over the guard one on one on the inside in

(16:53):
past rush situations, He's a very disruptive player. The further
you move him outside away from the football, all the
worse it gets. And I just don't think that they
really had a role. Like when you look at Chase
On and Landry and how they rush the passer and
how they move out on the edge, that is a
very different athlete and a very different kind of player

(17:14):
than what they had with Keon White. So they're just
again it's the scheme thing. There wasn't really a role
for him, so they end up sending him out to
San Francisco. But another trade out. They really didn't get
a ton of return for their investment here.

Speaker 1 (17:28):
Yeah, this is one where I thought they might be
able to get a little bit more.

Speaker 3 (17:31):
Now.

Speaker 1 (17:31):
There was some reporting this morning from Tom Pellisero that
it's not guaranteed to be a pick swap. If Keon
White's actor for seven games, I would assume that I
mean seven games with the Niners, not seven games total
this season. Then the Patriots keep their seventh round pick
and it just becomes ke On White for six, which
is not a ton but it's obviously better. Yeah, it

(17:53):
sucks because it's a guy that that is talented and
I think came here at a time where they were
not in a spot to develop them and three coaches
in three years and changing roles, and he dealt with
some injuries. He had a concussion as a rookie, the
illness this year, and h just got passed over. So
I don't think we've heard the last of Keyon White
in the NFL. You know, I think he'll be a

(18:13):
solid player if he ends up in the right spot.
And there's a ton of opportunities form in San Francisco
because they're very banged up, both on the edge end
on the inside, but he he really didn't have a
role here and I think a change of scenery was best.
And now I wonder if the Patriots go out and
try to find another team's keyon White.

Speaker 2 (18:31):
And we've seen what.

Speaker 1 (18:31):
They've done with calevon Chase on a guy that was
a high draft pick that just really couldn't stick anywhere,
and nobody figured out the right way to use him,
right way to develop him. And they seem to have
unlocked something there. And the one thing when I look
at and look at the NFL trade deadline, so you
take it all with a grain of salt, although this
has felt Patriots did last night that felt like a MLB, NHL,

(18:52):
NBA trade deadline kind of thing. But you know, the
one constant I kind of see when you look at
all the rumors is there might be like a number
of young edge rushers available. Some of the names you
see out there, like Arnold Wi, Ketty, Azizo, Jalari, Jalen Phillips.
I don't know if he's going in the division, but

(19:14):
boy A Mafi, I don't really know why the Seahawks
are trade him, but I've seen his name out there.
There's one more that I'm blanking on off the top
of my head, but you know these guys that are
in their mid twenties that were first round picks or
high draft picks, whatever you want to call it, who
just for one reason or another have not been able
to stick, have not been able to make it work.

Speaker 2 (19:34):
Arden Key was known. He's a little bit older, he's
twenty nine, But I could see that Tennessee guy.

Speaker 1 (19:38):
You know, they bring in a guy like that, even
if it's on an expiring contract, with the idea that
they're going to resign him and try to develop him
and work him as a pass rusher. Maybe he's a
better scheme fit than what Keon White was, but that
same idea, a guy that just isn't a fit with
his current team but still has some physical tools.

Speaker 2 (19:53):
So we talked a little bit about that running back
in terms of needing three, I think you need three
edge rushers on game day, well, but but you need
three guys that you trust to play on the edge
because you don't want to play those guys one hundred
percent of the snaps. You want to be able to
mix in and rotate a little bit with Landry and
Chase on Jennings has you know, rotated a little bit

(20:14):
in Yeah, in this game against Cleveland, getting a third
guy that maybe fits a little bit better than Jennings,
I think. I think situational.

Speaker 1 (20:22):
You have Jennings on early downs like he's three A
not even three A and three B. And then you
have like your third you have your third early down guy,
and then you have your third pass rush guy. And
right now you know what they're doing at running back
with Terrell Jennings. You mentioned the running back situation. Maybe
there's a comp here. Maybe this is we want to
clear the runway for Elijah Ponder and see what he has.
We want to clear the runway for Kayleb Murphy and

(20:43):
see what he has. He was pass rushing a little more, yeah,
with the Chargers before he got I was gonna say,
maybe this is where Braden Swinson factors and could have
been Truman Jones if he didn't get signed.

Speaker 2 (20:51):
But you know, maybe it's as simple as that. I don't.

Speaker 1 (20:54):
The question is, are they just going to reset the
rotation bring one of those guys in or are they
trying to upgrade the rotation and go out and get
one of those names that I mentioned.

Speaker 2 (21:05):
Yeah, I think that you know, just to wrap it
up on all these trades, I think the biggest thing
about all these things is that work one were trade
take after this. Sure, we're learning a lot about Rabel's
types at these various positions and just pulling it up
really quickly. And this is big on our show because
we're going to talk about this all draft season and

(21:25):
all off season as well. Harold Landry is clearly his
dream edge rusher, right, And just in terms of body tie, well,
I'm sure there could be a higher ceiling guy out there,
but just in terms of the way he's built on
that side, I think in either side, because I think
him and Chase on it pretty similar. So Landry's six
two two fifty so not the six three two seventy

(21:47):
five that Keon White is right, And then I would
also say the two skill sets that are really one
A and one B above everything else with their edge
rusher archetype is get off firs, step, explosiveness, and bend.
Like if you can't do those two things, if you
can't get off the ball and bend and turn the corner,

(22:09):
they are that's not your their type of guy. They
want guys that can get off the ball bolt against
the run and against the pass because they're you know,
they're spilling in their run fits and so they're crashing
the end down inside and trying to get the ball
to bounce to the outside. So it's different. They're not
boxing the ends anymore like they did in the Belichick system,
where they're funneling the ball back inside. Allah Anthony Jennings, right,

(22:33):
who's going to just sit out there and hold the
tackle on the outside and force the ball back inside.
They want guys that are coming off the ball. They
want guys that are winning, you know, to the spot
in the run game, right to the point of attack
and the run game, when there's a polar from the
other side of the formation, they want to be able
to get there first. So that's not key on White's game.

(22:54):
That's not really Anthony Jennings's game. It's Landry and Chason's game,
and those are their guys. So once we start looking
in the market for who could be available both at
the trade deadline and the next offseason to add some
depth at that position, I'm basically canceling out anybody in
the mold of a Whiter or Jennings. I think those

(23:16):
guys are totally off the table for what they want
to do from a front mechanic perspective on the edge.
So if you're looking for archetypes, if you're looking for fits,
like it's the Landryes of the world, it's the chase
Ons of the world. Like, those are the types of
guys that they want. So I look at, you know,
some of the names that you mentioned, although it's not
like truly splashy like Ardent Key, I think comes to

(23:38):
mind as a guy that fits exactly what that does.
I think that he was in Tennessee with Rabel for
a year. Uh yeah, a couple of years twenty twenty three,
he was in Tennessee with Rabel. So a guy that
he's familiar with, a little bit veteran player, fits fits
the mold, fits the suit, uh right, at six five
two forty like, that's exactly what they're looking for. So

(24:01):
I think that there's a lot of things to learn,
both that safety, but also in terms of the edge
rushing that is different. You know, they're not again they're
like they're not setting the edge to the defense the
way they used to anymore. They want these guys up
the field. They want these guys spilling. They want these
guys forcing the ball outside and bouncing the football, So
they want guys that can get off the ball. And

(24:24):
you know that that's the difference between you know, why
is Jennings not playing as much? Why is Keon White
now traded? That's why. So it's an interesting sort of
exercise to understand. And they seem very locked in to
these types, like it doesn't seem like there's much wiggle room.
I think the only guys so far that's convinced them

(24:45):
otherwise is Marcus Jones. Other than that, they are really
really stringent and like kind of sticking to their principles
in terms of what they look for. What's your last
take there? One more?

Speaker 1 (24:55):
So I don't know if you want to do other
trade deadline take, but one more trade deadline thought. I
have texting about this a little last night, and I
think I won you over on this, which I didn't
think I was gonna be able to. So they have
to add another edge rusher, whether it's Braden Swinton from
the practice squad or trading for somebody or signing for
like just bodies. They need another guy. Sure, they're gonna
need another running back on the roster. We know that,

(25:17):
and they already added a safety they signed last night.
I'm blanking on his name off the Dolphin squad. Yeah,
John Saunders, so I said, Josh John John Saunders. So
they're gonna need they already added. They have one spot
they need to add an edge rusher on a running back,
so there's some more shuffling coming. There's one other position
i'd really like to see them add, and this could
maybe overlap with running back. I would like to see

(25:39):
them at a kick returner. And if that means you
do a six to seven pick swap again and you
turn one of those six into a seventh, people are
probably gonna screen bloody murder that I'm saying trade for
kick returner. I think it matters. I think it matters
to the extent when you have ten eleven draft picks,
you can make that move. Here's why you asked last night,

(26:01):
what is the difference between the best returners and the
worst returners in the NFL. The best kick returns in
the NFL top five six to seven guys are all
averaging about thirty yards per return. The league averages twenty
five and a half. The guys at the bottom of
the list A when qualifying returners are closer to twenty,
they're just a tick over twenty. So you talk about
the Patriots since Antonio Gibson got hurt or averaging twenty

(26:24):
three point eight yards per return. They were up near
thirty before that. You're talking about, you know, seven to
ten yards per return per How many returns are you
going to have in a game, say three to four
to be conservative, that's forty yards of field position that
you're potentially leaving on the table. People may roll their

(26:45):
eyes at that. If you look at the there's eight
teams right now that are over five hundred in the AFC.
Let's just call that group playoff contenders for the time being.
For what it is, six of those eight teams have
a kick returner that ranks in the top half the
league that is above average. One of the teams, the Chargers, doesn't,
only because none of their.

Speaker 2 (27:06):
Kick returners have enough returns to qualify for the leaderboard.
They rotate guys.

Speaker 1 (27:10):
So when you're going up against these teams that are
in the playoff hunt, or even ideally when you play
them in the playoffs, they are going to have that
field position advantage. They have that kind of kick returner
the Patriots, Henderson's been better. But remember they said a
couple of weeks ago, if Trayvon Henderson is going to
play a bigger role in the offense, they don't necessarily

(27:31):
want him returning kicks because they don't want him taking
on that physical toll. You would hope after what he
did against the Falcons, he is going to play a
bigger role in the offense moving forward. Efton Chisholm still
think he has some upside as a receiver. He's not
an NFL kick returner at this point. So you look
at the top kick returners in the league. Ironically, most
of them are receivers, so they may have to be

(27:51):
heavy at wide receiver if they were to do this,
but I would count it to you know, oh, we
had seven receivers active.

Speaker 2 (27:58):
A one was Matthew Slade. So I look at the
top kick returners in the league.

Speaker 1 (28:03):
Now, maybe they double dip and they do the running
back thing. I've been big on Jerome Ford, Yeah, as
a guy that could help you out with that, and
now boom, he's your third running back and your kick returner.
Dylan Louby would be a guy on a bad Raiders team.
He hasn't played a ton of offense. He's mainly just

(28:23):
been a kick.

Speaker 2 (28:23):
Returner in his career.

Speaker 1 (28:24):
He's played more offense this year in the last year.
Would you be comfortable him as your third running back?
Isaiah Davis? I don't think the Jets woul trade Brees
Hall in the division? Would they trade his backup? But
you know there are some receivers that are up there
on bad teams. Greg Dortsch on Arizona, you know, would
they be willing to part ways with him again in
division trade? But Dwayne Eskridge in Miami is in the

(28:45):
last years contract. He's averaging twenty seven yards return. And
the one other name I'll throw out there. I'm not
saying this because he's a former Patriot. I'm literally just
looking who are the best kick returners who are on
bad teams who might part with them, especially the guys
on expiring contracts. Gunner Roschevski's a top five kick returner
in the NFL right now.

Speaker 2 (29:03):
He's averaging twenty eight point three yards per return. Do
you go out and get him?

Speaker 1 (29:07):
And he doesn't need to play a snap a wide receiver,
but to rebolster that kick return unit. Again, I know
it's a little bit of a banana's take. I get that.
I actually think there's real value in this that people
may not realize because the new kick return rules.

Speaker 2 (29:22):
Okay, so the average starting field position in the NFL
right now, yeah, after kickoff yep, Detroit leads the league
and they are at they have what's his name returning kickoffs.
I can't remember, he's good. I have the list here here.
They're Sailors, Jacob Sailors. Their average starting field position is

(29:42):
the thirty five. Yep. The Minnesota Vikings are the last
place team in this stat in the league. Their average
field position is the twenty seven. So we're talking about
from the worst team in the league to the best
team in the league. About an average of eight yards
per kickoff return. So I know I agree with you.

(30:03):
I know to the most people that doesn't sound like
a lot. It can be a lot.

Speaker 1 (30:08):
You got to extrapolate that over multiple kickoffs, right, and
let's say it's the end of the game, right or
even the end of the half, and you're trying to
get down and get a field goal.

Speaker 2 (30:16):
Those eight yards are going to be massive. So I
think the biggest thing to me though, is that and
you know, this is a much longer philosophical discussion that
I don't know if I want to have right now.
But the biggest thing to me right now with the
kickoff return rules is it's not having the exact impact
that we thought it would. They are not there's now
explosive returns. So Antonio Gibson's touchdown returns still the only

(30:40):
one in the NFL, I believe this season on a kickoff. Yes,
so they're not getting the big returns off of this
new rule, but getting the thirty yard line is now
kind of the goal on these kickoff returns, and that
has proven to be a little bit harder than maybe
you expected because really there's no space out there, Like

(31:01):
they build a wall across the field with their you know,
ten guys that they're allowed to build, and there's really
it's it's a very hard play to block and it's
a very hard play to return. So it's actually turned
out to be the opposite effect. It's it's kind of
pinning teams more than it is actually having big returns.
So now gaining the thirty plus is like now an advantage,

(31:25):
Like if you can do that, you're swinging about ten
yards of field position compared to your.

Speaker 1 (31:30):
Also, just the threat of having somebody back there, and
you see how it forces teams into bad decisions like
trying those what do they call the dirty kick, the dirty.

Speaker 2 (31:39):
Kicks, and that comes up short. We saw that happen,
you know, against Buffalo.

Speaker 1 (31:41):
So I just I think you need somebody back there
that is going to be a factor. And if they're
not gonna put Travon Henderson back there, which I'm not
necessarily if they want to give him the ball fifteen
twenty times a game, I'm fine if he's not returning kicks,
but you gotta have somebody back there that's a factor,
and not just well he won't fumble, and I can

(32:03):
you you know, with the have four to six round picks,
you turn one of those into a seventh to add
a kick return if he breaks off one big return.

Speaker 2 (32:10):
Who's arguing, Ye're like, you're you're like stumping for this take,
Like everybody's disagreed.

Speaker 1 (32:15):
I I feel like saying trade for a kid. I know,
you know what, It's weird. Ever since I've had this take,
I feel like I've had to strongly defend it because
it just seems like the kind of sick barth take
that I want to trade for a kick returner, but
I don't mind trading for. But also I feel like
throwing gunro Chevsky out there is going to get.

Speaker 2 (32:33):
We are talking about eight to ten yards of field position.
We're not talking about twenty, so I's not.

Speaker 1 (32:39):
Over per return. I just think having the threat back
there as a factor.

Speaker 2 (32:44):
I hear you, I it would be kind of funny
ideas che one last trade deadline take that I just
am thinking about over here as we're talking about these possibilities.
I don't know, I know nothing, but I do feel
like we are seeing the Patriots kind of clear runway
for a trade here. So I would expect them to
try to add somebody by Tuesday. I'm not telling you

(33:06):
it's gonna be, you know, Trey Hendrickson or something, but
it does feel like you get some picks back for
these two players that were depreciated assets that you didn't
have roles for to maybe open the door for them
to acquire a player. It also feels that way to
me because they did it a week in advance. If

(33:26):
they had done this on Tuesday, then maybe that would
have been a little bit different, but the fact that
they did it so early tells me that this is
like a preemptible stress up yeah to something else. So
we'll see what it ends up being. I know there's
a lot of big names. They always get floated around
around the trade deadline, and sometimes that happens, sometimes it doesn't.
Most of the time, it doesn't. Like this is not

(33:47):
the NBA or the MLB where you see like star
players moved at the deadline. In football too often, there's
a lot of trades, but they're not usually trades of consequence,
if that makes sense. It's like, it's not You're not
going to see a ton of Luka Doncic trades right
in the NFL. It just doesn't happen in season very often.

(34:10):
But maybe that'll change this year. We're going to talk
about the Browns, but before we do, hate Patriots fans,
we want to see Toyota's best offers, including those not
seen on TV. Go to buy at toyota dot com.
It's Toyota's official website for deals for the official vehicle
of the New England Patriots. Toyota Let's go places and
football fans know that traditions matter turning moments together into

(34:31):
something truly epic. They're what inspire us to make our
masa and tostitos the traditional way, starting with whole corn kernels,
no artificial flavors, colors are preservatives, all to give you
that perfect crunch. Discover your next tradition this football season.
Head to the store, grab your Tostito's team bag, and
scan the code for a chance to score an epic
experience with the Patriots. Toastedo's tradition matters. So like, this

(34:54):
is like basically reset where we were almost restarting the
show again because we're gonna start where we usually start now,
which is recapping the game last week. So that first
thirty minutes was kind of like its own thing, and
now we're going into the actual show plan that I
had for today with this Cleveland Browns game. So my
big picture takeaway from this game against the Browns is

(35:16):
because I'm gonna get a little nitpicky with certain things,
because I want to point to a few trends that
are just not going. They're blown teams out right. They're
blown doors right now against bad teams, which is great
to see. It's great that we're at that point, but
we are at a point now where my expectations for
this team, and like my calibration of how I talk

(35:38):
about the team is shifting towards It's no longer are
they good? They are good? Now it's are they great? Like?
Can they be a true contender? They are trending towards
being a playoff team. So I'm thinking about this now
in the way of like, where can they fine tune

(35:59):
certain things so that they can make some noise in
the playoffs. And this isn't just a twenty twenty one
Reducts where they make the playoffs, ya whippy, and then
they get blown out by a good team in the
wildcard round. So I think that there's some nitpicks to
this game, both on offense and defense that we'll get into.
But to start with the good stuff, I think the

(36:21):
most encouraging thing about this game from a Drake May perspective,
and we can start there. I can come out here
and give Drake May all of his flowers, call me MVP,
and do it like we can do that. It's fun, cool,
we all know it. But the one thing that stands
out to me with him week to week is when
there is something to nitpick his game about one week,

(36:42):
he almost always fixes it by the following week. So
in Tennessee, we were talking a lot about the one
in runs, like he was not staying in the pocket,
he wasn't keeping his eyes down the field, he was
taking a lot of hits on scrambles. It wasn't sliding
like all those different types of things. I thought this
week I really only had one small grape with him

(37:04):
in this regard. It was on the bootleg sacked by
Miles Garrett, like that one we can just throw into
the tenth row and not take a hit there. But
at the same time, I thought he stayed in the pocket.
I thought he hit the backside of the progression more
than I think I've seen him do in any game
this season against and that's against a really good pass
rush too. Now, he took six sacks, so that's an

(37:24):
element of it. But at the same time, I can't
harp on him staying in the pocket and going through
his reads one week and then criticize him for taking
sacks the next week when I wanted him to stay
in the pocket and go through his progressions. So I
thought that he really took a step forward and Nat
regard kind of corrected some of those things. Scrambled when

(37:45):
he needed to scramble, got out of bounds on the
sixteen yarder, slid down on the twenty eight yarder. Just
much cleaner game from all those perspectives. And then he
was he was gamebusters in the second half. You know,
eight for eight, one hundred and fourteen yards, three touchdowns,
perfect passer rating in the second half of this game.
Last thing that drive that really put the game away,

(38:07):
the twenty eight yard scramble followed by a thirty nine
yard touchdown. Yep, that is MVP. Put the cape on,
put the team on the back. Hey Cleveland, warm up
the buses. It's time to go home. This game is over.
That was mahomes Alan Lamar Burrow esque. When the game
is almost over and you just want to go for

(38:30):
the juggular. I'm going to hit you with back to
back explosives and we're in the end zone and this
game is over. That's the type of stuff that wins MVPs.
You know, that's the type of thing when you put
the team on the back for a drive like that
where it's literally all you. He kind of did the
same thing in Miami where it was the big player
Ramandre Stevenson touchdown game over. Like, that's the same thing
I felt like in this game against Cleveland. I know

(38:52):
it was already twenty three to seven at that point,
it wasn't necessarily a close game, but that was the
drive that really ended the game. And Drake May pulled
out the MVP cap.

Speaker 1 (39:04):
I mean so after the scramble was the first time
we've heard MVP chance for at least here. I think
he got some on the road, But and how does
he respond first play after his first MVP chance thirty
nine yard dot to Keshan Boudio. He was really good
in this game. He took some sacks. I think against
his defense, you just have to take some stacks, not
force it. I thought when he did scramble he did

(39:25):
a much better job of protecting himself. The slide on
the long scramble was a little ugly, but it was
effective and I'll take the function over fashion at that point. So, yeah,
another great game from him. One other thing I think
he did that he's been doing, but I think it
was highlighted in this game. A lot of young quarterbacks
do tend to have their favorites more so than the

(39:47):
average quarterback. And the example I always use is Keenan
Allen got what one hundred and forty targets from Trustin Herbert.
I don't think Drake Mays like that, which is a
good thing. I definitely think he has his preferences, you know, Keishn,
Booty Hunter, Henry. But this game plan calls for a
lot of Mac Hollins, and it's all right, let's rip
it to mac Collins and not a second thought about it.

(40:08):
It makes sense. Mac Hollins is a plus blocking wide receiver.
That makes him a little more effective off play action.
He's been one of their better play action receivers this year.
We talked about running play action against this aggressive Browns
defense all week. They ran a lot of play actions.
So wouldn't you know it, it's a mac Collins game
and he just adjusted to it and hit it. And

(40:29):
that makes him dangerous because with the young quarterbacks sometimes
the book can be if you take away this receiver,
he's not as confident throwing to the other guys, and
it's going to slow him down and it's going to
create some issues. I don't think you can do that
to Drake May. He'll throw the ball to whoever. He'll
throw the ball to the open guy. He'll throw the ball,
the ball to the guy the defense dictates. So you're
starting to hear people being now like, well, when are

(40:51):
we going to get the book on Drake May? You
hear this with all these young quarterbacks, you know, the
books out on him. The plan is out there, the blueprint,
and that can be something that can be a part
of the blueprint, and it looks like it might not
be for Drake May.

Speaker 2 (41:04):
That's the Josh McDaniels offense to a tea to me,
and that's the thing it plays super well. Josh mcdanniel
throwing to the open receiver, throwing where the coverage dictates
you to go with the football, not forcing it to
certain guys that aren't open within the coverage structure like that.
That's basically the foundation of the Josh McDaniel's passing offense
is that you need to threaten the defense with all

(41:26):
five eligible receivers on every single play if you are
closing off a side of the field, if you are
zeroing in on one guy. Now, Brady had his guys too, right,
Like he was zero in on Gronk and Edelman plenty,
but those guys would get open. So I think what
you're seeing with this offense is they have a hierarchy

(41:46):
now to their passing game, which I think is huge.
With Stefan Diggs at the top of the depth chart,
they now have Okay, these games where the defense is
probably doing something, whether it's Denzel Ward or whether it's
you know, skindically from an exus and no standpoint, these
defenses are doing things to make sure that Stefan Diggs
isn't going off. And now all of a sudden, Matt

(42:07):
Collins is one on one the entire game, Kaishan Boody
is one on one on the big play, and Drake
May is attacking those matchups. You know, they got a
rookie corner on the outside one on one against Kaise
Shawn Booty and he went right at him and that
was definitely something And we saw it in the micd
up if you want to check out the mic up
miked up on the Patriots dot com or Patriots YouTube

(42:28):
of Josh McDaniels of him going over to Drake May
and saying, hey, trust your guys against the guys we
want to trust them against I guarantee you. They circle
that corner, that rookie corner on the depth chart and said,
if we have him on the outside against Kayshawan Boody,
we're gonna We're gonna take at least one of of
these shots and see if we can get that play
to work. Uh So, I kind of thought that going

(42:50):
into the game, like the non Denzel Ward corners for
the Browns, I thought were vulnerable Tyson Campbell their slot
corner where I keep blanking on his freaking name. You know,
those guys I thought were a little bit susceptible outside
a Denzel Ward, and they took advantage of it. Speaking
of Josh McDaniel's, just a masterclass from him. I thought,
really from the start of the game on. I know

(43:12):
the third quarter drive is getting all the pub as
it should, but Jim Schwartz is a really good play caller,
one of the best defensive coordinators in football for the
Cleveland Browns. Josh McDaniels took him to school like he
took him to school in this game. And if you
are it's one thing to go out there as a
play caller, as a coordinator and take like a young inexperienced,

(43:33):
first time play caller to school. When you're taking a
guy like Jim Schwartz outside and behind the woodshed like that,
that's a feather in your cap as a play caller
and as a coordinator. I thought, what really got this
game going from McDaniel's perspective was that very first plus
run for Travon Henderson was a wham scheme right up

(43:54):
the gut. They ran full back wham with Jack Westover.
They gained twelve yards on that wham scheme right up
the gut, and the rest of the game and the
Cleveland Brown spent overplaying the inside run like they showed
him inside run action and then they could started get
the toss going the trayvon Henderson out on the edges.
That opened up the boots, that opened up the play action,

(44:15):
and it all kind of fit together from there. After
they got that opening drive where they go twelve yard run,
eighteen yard run to Travon Henderson. It kind of just
opened up from there for this offense, even when they
were getting shut down a little bit in the first half,
like they were getting into the red zone, like they
had two red zone drives, they drove another one to
the twenty four for Cleveland right before half, So it

(44:37):
wasn't like they weren't moving the ball, they just were
stalling and then they kind of the dam broke in
the second half. So I can't say enough good things
about Josh McDaniels, his job, the job he's doing with
his football team, both with Drake May behind the scenes
on the sideline, the play calling, the play sequencing, you know,
showing similar presentations, formations, things like that, and then running

(44:59):
different plays out of it to keep defenses off balance.
Is the amount that they're throwing at defenses in general,
whether it's under center, movement plays, shotgun, RPO, read option,
you know, different runs, you know, inside outside runs, cracks,
toss cracks, inside run plays, outside zone. There's just a

(45:20):
million different things that they throw out of defense on
a given Sunday. He's done a great job. Deserves his flowers,
I think right now, and I said this yesterday, between
McDaniels and Shane Steichen in Indianapolis, those are the two
hottest play callers in the NFL right now on the
offensive side of the ball. So you're doing a really,

(45:43):
really good job. When you're talking about he might be
on the biggest heater of any play caller in football
besides maybe the guy that's making Daniel Jones look good.
And so that tells you a lot about Josh McDaniels
right now.

Speaker 1 (45:56):
That that open and look, he was good the whole game.
That opening drive of the third orter just perfect. I mean,
come on, that was he He hit him with literally
everything you had, cracked toss, you would play action toss,
you had a speed option in there, which you know
I loved. There was a trick play mixed in ghet
some things off play action. I mean it was they
were their heads are spinning. That was just brilliant, brilliant

(46:18):
stuff from Josh McDaniels. Again, he's been good all year.
That drive was another one that was the best masterpiece
caliber drive.

Speaker 2 (46:25):
Yeah, one of the best skirted drives in the league
all season. You know, Danielrolofsky said that he watches a
lot of football too, so it's not just me from
a biased standpoint saying that truly one of the best
scripted drives in all of the NFL this season. You mentioned,
you know, just all the different things they threw at him,
even just like setting up you know, handing the jet
sweep to pop to set up the hoops. Jets sweep

(46:47):
in there too. Yeah, so they run a jet sweep
and then they come back and they run jet motion
and then they get Hunter Henry just wide open in
the flat on the touchdown. And if you watch the
defensive back for Cleveland, they actually flip the safeties. So
the safety starts down, he sees the jetsweep the safety
who's up. He comes down to take the other side

(47:08):
of the formation to take the jetsweep. That safety goes
back and then all of a sudden, now there's a
two on one in the flat to hunt Hunter Henry,
all schemed, all dressed up. And when you watch the
micd up that instance, there's a couple of different instances
within the micd up that were kind of subtle where
Josh McDaniels is basically saying, yep, okay, now you go

(47:32):
over there, right and if we're gonna throw it here,
and like he's basically knowing exactly how Cleveland is going
to react to all the motion and all the different
movement from by the offense. That is next level preparation,
like having that ability to watch a defense on film,
and I think We talk about this a lot with motion,
like how does the team a defense react to motion,

(47:53):
Like how do they play motion? Do they follow it?
Do they pass it off? Do they use their safeties
like the Browns due to to you know, rotate. He
knew the Browns were going to rotate their safeties like
that when they motioned. They didn't they relate to it
against pop pop games. Eight yards on the play before.
So now they are on it and they're really overplayed
on the Henry touchdown. And he knew it the whole time.

(48:15):
He knew exactly what he was doing. That that's play calling,
that stack and plays, that's sequencing plays off of each other.
Really really good stuff. I want to stick on one
point there. Trayvon Henderson. A nice breakout game for Trayvon Henderson.
They finally got the ball to him in space and
got him outside on these toss plays. Obviously, you know,

(48:36):
you can't be too predictable with toss plays, you know.
I think as the game wore on, they tried a
couple more late in this game, and Cleveland was ready
for it and shut him down. But once you start
tossing the ball, then you have the run actions off
the toss. But then you also have now the inside
is going to start to open up for him, right
when you start to get guys to over pursue out

(48:57):
to the edge, and now you can hit him inside
with different run. I thought this plan, you know, this
usage was significantly improved. And then I thought Henderson was
a lot better in this game, both making reads out
in space, but also his pass blocking. I thought he
had a couple good pass blocking grips in this game
as well. So his game is starting to develop and
he's starting to come along. That would be huge. Yeah,

(49:19):
if they could get training camp Travion Henderson back, and
maybe he's not quite as dynamic as he was in
training camp, but close to that. We still haven't really
unlocked the passing game elements of what he could do
as a receiver. This is all running game stuff. But
he carried the ball seven times I think are around
seventy yards on those outside tosses he runs outside of

(49:40):
the tackles, averaged almost ten yards per attempt on crack
toss schemes, essentially down the line there. This was good.
This was a very positive development for them.

Speaker 1 (49:50):
Yeah, it really was go figure. It just took facing
the best run defense in the league. But the crazy
thing to me, so remember earlier in the year when
people were saying tre On Henderson needs to play more,
and we were saying, like, no, he's playing a lot.
It just doesn't feel like it because he's not doing
a ton. We've hit the complete polar opposite of that.
So Ramandra Stevenson in this game had fifteen touches on

(50:12):
fifty snaps five zero fifty snaps, touched the ball fifteen times.
Trevion Henderson had ten touches on fourteen snaps. That's that's
an insane usage rate. I mean, he was basically what
two out of every three times more than to every
three times he was on the field he got the ball.
So you don't want it to become a tell, but

(50:33):
it's kind of crazy that it felt like he played
this big role in this game. He really was not
on the field that much. Yeah, so and maybe that's
ultimately the role for him. Maybe that's what it is.
You know, right, pick your spots and go. Now, they
are going to need another running back to spell more
with Stevenson. If they're going to do that fifty snaps,
the game is a lot. Even if it is only
fifteen touches, but yeah, if they can get him going,

(50:54):
that's a huge development.

Speaker 2 (50:56):
Yeah, it was really positive. Again, I think there was
a clear and he he said so as much after
the game when I asked him that there was a
clear point of emphasis this week to let's get this
guy out on the edge and see what he can
do in some space. And if we have to toss
the ball to him instead of stretch handoffs and things
like that, that's what we're going to do. So they

(51:16):
did a nice job of getting him out outside the tackle,
some really good blocks on some of those plays as well.
Shout out Jared Wilson, I thought was really good at
his games, especially climbing to the second level of the
defense on some of those toss schemes, like his ability
to climb to the second level when they run him
to the right side to Morgan Moses' side. His ability

(51:38):
to get up to the second level and block the
backside pursuit is why that becomes a twenty seven yard
run because he's up there at the second level turning
out that week sidelinebacker and that allows those runs to
go from you know, okay, let's call it a six
yard run to a twenty seven yard run. That's how
you get those bigger runs down the field. So Morgan
moses at thirty four getting out there front of those

(52:00):
toss schemes. I thought that again. Jared Wilson was a
big part of it as well. So a lot of
good things there from all those players, A couple of
the positives on the defensive side of the ball here
and the goods. I thought that again. You know, they
settled down nicely against the script, but I think the
biggest thing for them was the only way Cleveland was

(52:20):
going to win this game is by running the football
like they had to run the ball with quin Shawn Jenkins,
play really good defense on the other side of the ball,
and win this game, you know, twenty to seventeen, seventeen
thirteen something like that, like that was their formula. They
kind of got it for the first half defensively, but
they were never able to run the ball. Judkins had

(52:41):
what nineteen yards on nine carries in the same was
running into a brick wall the entire game. I broke
it down and after further of you with you know,
diagrams and plays, and it's much easier to digest that way,
but the way they're fitting the runs different than it
did in the past. I mentioned that earlier in the show.
They have it rolling right now from a run defense perspective,

(53:01):
roberts Plaine has it rolling. But also this defensive line
is as good against the run as any defensive line
I've seen for the Patriots. They don't make any mistakes,
they don't jump out of gaps, they don't get double
teamed off the ball very often. They are sound, they're
stout up front. It's a great group. It's being coached
really well by Clint McMillan. He deserves a lot of

(53:22):
credit for that as well. But their run defense continues
to be one of the best run defenses in football.
And this was a week where the Browns were big,
physical team up front, really physical, good rookie running back,
and the Patriots completely shut him down on the ground.

Speaker 1 (53:37):
Yeah, and they're gonna get another test this week in BEJN. Robinson,
so we'll really tell. But the run defense is, I mean,
it's at an insanely high level right now. And you
talk about I was actually oddly enough kind of impressed
with Judkins in this game in the sense that I
thought when he got hit, he did a good job
of falling forward and creating some hitting yardage, and even

(53:57):
doing that, he really didn't.

Speaker 2 (53:59):
Do a lot in this game. No, didn't do a
lot at all. Now, part of that's game script, like
once you're down by two touchdowns, you're not going to
keep running the football most likely. But again I thought
that was the Browns only path to victory was a
big Judkins game, a big game for their defense, and
they got the defense from the first half, but they
didn't sustain on defense and then they never got Judkins going.

(54:21):
And I thought that was a huge reason why the
Patriots won this game so easily, was that Cleveland was
never going to beat him throwing the football. They just
Dylan Gabriel was never going to be the reason why
they lost. So I thought that that was, you know,
something that was really feathering their cap. Last thing on
the goods and then we'll take a break and we'll
talk about the bads here. Just the goods. These receivers,

(54:43):
I think just continue deserve praise for the work they're doing.
Maccollins big game for him, As you mentioned, three more
chunk plays in this game, as five in the last
two weeks. Kaishawan Boody just once a week, Kasehwan Boody
is hitting a bomb. May It seems like over the
last month or so, I just continue to be really

(55:04):
impressed by every single player kind of finding their targets,
finding their role, Like even Pop Douglas hits the forty
four yard or on the extended play, Like they all
kind of have a niche right now. They all kind
of work and fit together. Again. I'm not gonna sit
here and say I wouldn't take aj Brown or I
wouldn't take a stud receiver on top of this, But

(55:28):
when you start talking about trades and the deadline and receiver,
I'm not that interested in adding a receiver. That's just
kind of part of this mix. Like it's gotta be
somebody that top of the depth chart or don't. Like
I see a lot of these names out there that
got thrown out there. I'll just give you an example,

(55:48):
and I'm a fan of this player, but I don't
really see the need to trade for Chris Alave. Like
I think Chris Alave is just gonna play where Kaishan
Boodie is playing. How much more production, how much better
is he gonna be than Kaishan Budi to give up
a pick for Chris Olave. Like again, if it's not
Aj Brown, if it's not somebody of that ilk, I'm

(56:11):
not interested in receiver because right now they are puzzle
pieces at that position and in that room just fit
tremendously together. And Drake May has got plenty. He's got
enough receiver talent on this team right now. I'm really
pleased with where it are.

Speaker 1 (56:26):
It's more of a long term need because look, Diggs
is a big part of what they're doing right now,
and he's thirty one, right so you got to go
out and you got to get the guy that's going
to grow long term with Drake May. I also would
like to see them if we're I mean, we're getting
way ahead of ourselves here, but get that Z slot type.
I'm good with Kaishan Boudi at the X. I don't

(56:46):
think they need the big outside X. I think you
like Kaishan Bouti in that role. Find the guy and
maybe it's ky Wiams, who knows, but find the guy
that's gonna step into Diggs role.

Speaker 2 (56:54):
Sure, and that that's really the addition they need. After that,
they're in relatively good shape. Yeah, agreed. All right, we're
gonna take a quick break and then we'll do some
of the nippicks from this game, and we'll take your
calls and emails.

Speaker 4 (57:07):
Whether you're in the game or betting on the game,
you'll need a game plan. DraftKings Sportsbook, the official sports
betting partner of the New England Patriots, provides you with
everything you need to build your personal betting game plan
so you can get in on all the action while
practicing safe bets. Visit DraftKings dot com slash Responsible dash
Gaming to learn more about all the safe betting tools

(57:28):
DraftKings has to offer. Hope is here eight hundred and
three two seven fifty to fifty or gambling Helplinema dot
org must be twenty one plus. Play it smart from
the start game. Sincema dot com physically president Massachusetts, see
DraftKings dot com slash Responsible dash Gaming for details and
statespecific responsible gambling resources.

Speaker 5 (57:51):
Isn't it time to get exactly what you want? Welcome
to red Hot Deal Days from Verizon, where you get
your pick of our best deals like my plan, where
you can take the perse you want and save on everyone.

Speaker 2 (58:02):
For limited time.

Speaker 5 (58:03):
Bring your own phones, to a Verizon store and you
can get my plan for our best price ever. Get
exactly what you want on your phone plan and only
pay for what you need. Bring your phones to your
Verizon store today and get my plan. These deals won't last.
It's your Verizon.

Speaker 6 (58:21):
With FedEx one rate, you can ship to your student
for a simple, predictable flat rate. Send a box full
of home baked treats that say your father and I
miss you, or send a box full of instant noodles
that says your father and I would like you to
stop asking us for money. Either way, one rate fits all.

(58:41):
FedEx one rate two day shipping, one flat rate starting
at fourteen fifty. Visit FedEx dot com slash one rate
for details. Exclusions apply.

Speaker 4 (58:50):
If you're gonna play the game board, you gotta learn
to play right.

Speaker 2 (58:55):
DraftKings is all about responsible game. It's more fun when
it's for fun, so played responsibly. Raftkins the Crown is yours.

Speaker 5 (59:01):
Gambling problem called twenty twenty one plus. Agent eligibility varies
by jurisdiction.

Speaker 2 (59:06):
Keeps touchtock tuck to catch twenty two US.

Speaker 1 (59:10):
Check check tech check keeps chuckstock tuck to catch twenty twenty.

Speaker 2 (59:15):
Touch text Front Workwear makes work tweeks and a pararel
that are built for the job site and is the
official sponsor of the Newingham Patriots and the Jellett Stadium
Field Crew. Their gear is comfortable, durable, and named after
the real workers in the trades that help design it.
You can even try Brunt out on the job and
if it doesn't blow you away, they let you send
it back. Save ten dollars in your first order at
brontworkwear dot com slash Patriots or with coupon code PA

(59:39):
t S. I keep asking this of Brunt and I'm
going to ask them again. So Boyd has to have
a jacket or something from Brunt right, which which means
that Atlas could also have some brunt workwar dog clothes
do clo. So yeah, I think you know. If you're
gonna be the official sponsor of the Jellette Stadium field Crew,
then Boyd is a heart of the Jiled Stadium field Crew.

(01:00:02):
Uh so we need to get him outfitted with some
brunt and and then we can get all the dogs
of Patriots dot com outfitted with some brunt as well.
That would be great. I love that, right, My dog
has his own wardrobe. That's that's how that's how it is.
It rolls. So what happens when you have a short
haired dog in New England when it gets cold? Uh,

(01:00:22):
he doesn't really like the cold too much. All right,
let's get back to football. I want to talk about
some of the the other things here in terms of
the bads. Let's say in this game, the nitpicks of
this game. And again I want to be clear, this
is about fine tuning things so that this team can

(01:00:43):
go on a run here and be a true playoff contender.
They're already a good team. Let's make them a great team.
One of the things that stands out to me right
now with Drake may and and then I want to
unpack all of these sacks. He's now second in the league.
He has taken twenty eight sacks this year. That's second
most in the NFL. His pressure two sack rate, so

(01:01:03):
when he's under pressure, how often does he go down?
That's also the second highest in the league at twenty
six percent. So I think one thing that stands out
to me about these numbers is getting sacked a lot.
That's just on the surface, but when you dig even deeper,
he's a great scrambler, he's a great play extension artist,
but when he gets under pressure, he's going down. You know,
that seems to be the book on him. This is

(01:01:26):
a bit of everything, you know, some of its offensive line.
But I will give the offensive line this. All six
of the sacks in this game took over four seconds.
So this was not jail breaks. This was not Miles
Garrett blowing by Will Campbell in two and a half seconds.
In sacking the quarterback. There was one or two sacks
that I would put on May. Certainly the bootleg I
think is a default where just throw the ball away

(01:01:48):
and save the yards there. But I thought the first
red zone sack he got a little hung up on
remondros Stevenson kind of froze on his first read a
little bit had Hunter Henry in the middle of the
field if he had come off of that. So, as
all with sacks, this is a little bit of a
quarterback stat It's not just an offensive line stat. I
want to go sack by sack here in a second
and talk about Will Campbell in some of the issues

(01:02:09):
that they had upfront. But if there's one thing that's
going to start to bite them in the butt. Offensively,
it's that they're taking a lot of sacks, which of
course is putting them in long down and distance, and
to Drake May's credit, he's getting them out of it.
You know, he's getting into second and seventeen and turning
that into first down, which is very uncommon in a

(01:02:30):
feather in his cap in terms of you know, his play.
But eventually, when you place better defenses, eventually, when your
luck kind of runs out and those long down and
distant situations, sacks can be drive killers. Right now, they
haven't been drive killers because of how good he's been,
but eventually that might change. So where are you at
with this number of sacks? Because I think I go

(01:02:51):
back and forth on it. On the one hand, you
don't want to take away his play extension, his instincts
to try to hold in the hocket, hang in the
pocket and let things develop, because he's capable of squeaking
out and hitting Pop Douglas for forty four yards right
down the field. So you don't want to completely take
that away. But at the same time, you are taking

(01:03:12):
a lot of sacks. Right now, it's starting to pile up.

Speaker 1 (01:03:14):
I mean, there, what's the stat I think it's something
like once you have a sack on a drive. I'm
trying to remember exactly what it is, just trying to
look it up. I think like on drives that include
a sack, teams only score like fifteen percent of the
time or something like a sack can really really set
you back. So it's obvious not great. I don't know
how sustainable it is at this level for them to

(01:03:36):
keep making it work, but I it's working, right, it's working,
And I don't, like you said, you don't want to
negate his ability to extend plays. And maybe as the
line continues to come together and they build chemistry and
will Campbell and Jared Wilson get more experienced, it just
kind that number comes down naturally. Yeah, I would also

(01:03:56):
I'd rather take the sacks and the turnovers. And if
the sack number comes down to turnover number goes back up,
that's not necessarily good thing either.

Speaker 2 (01:04:03):
So the one thing I will say about the sacks too,
I hear list a lot just throw the ball away. Well,
if you started just throwing the ball away from the
pocket and there's pressure, then that's what's called intentional grounding, right,
Like you can't just you can throw the ball away
at guy's feet and you can throw the ball away
you know where it's like kind of your guy or
no guy. And like Brady was a master at that

(01:04:26):
and he eliminated that way. It's very hard and it's
a fine line because if you start trying to throw
the ball under pressure at guy's feet or like out
of bounds and you don't get it out of bounds,
those become turnovers.

Speaker 1 (01:04:39):
The one thing he does need to get better at
doing is when he's outside the pocket throwing the ball away.
There's a few times where he's taking sacks or even
run out of bounds outside of the pocket, Like those
ones need to be thrown away.

Speaker 2 (01:04:50):
That would be a.

Speaker 1 (01:04:51):
Bigger nitpick for me. Inside the pocket is different. He's
got to be a little more willing to.

Speaker 2 (01:04:55):
Throw the ball away outside the pocket. Yeah, I agree
with that. I mean the Miles garrebuleg sack is a
perfect example. This is one other like little nitpick that
I had from this game from a the one sort
of nitpick of Josh McDaniels and Drake May from a
play calling perspective, there was three plays in this game
that we're doomed from the start, the tackle trap played

(01:05:17):
down by the goal line on the first drive that
goes for minus four yards, the bootleg to Miles Garrett's side,
and then there was one other run that went that
was so I think it was the third and one run.
Maybe that got stuff. But I just wonder where we're
at and maybe I'll try to ask this this week,
like where are we at with Drake checking out a place?

Speaker 1 (01:05:38):
So I was gonna say the bootleg to Garrett's side
that they called, and we had talked a little bit
last week about running bootlegs to his side to upset
his timing, But that was on the left side. That
was on the back side. That's one where I do wonder.
You get to the line, you're expecting that to be
a boot away from him. Suddenly he's on the right side.

Speaker 2 (01:05:56):
Should they have checked out of that play? Should they
check out of it? Can they? Can they just flip
it right like? And he, you know, give a little
flipper call and then all of a sudden, instead of
booting to the left, you're booting to the right. Now
there's moving parts. You got to move the tight ends,
you got to move all the pieces. But that's part
of maturing and part of developing here as a quarterback.
I'm not holding it totally against him because I don't

(01:06:16):
know if they're giving him that kind of control yet.
So I think that that's a question for Josh McDaniels
and Ashton Grant of like how much is he really
allowed to do at the line of scrimmage, like if
he's canning, like if they have two play calls in
the huddle. Yeah, that's very different than asking him to
see Miles Garrett on the right side and now we're
gonna flip it, and now we're gonna move the tight

(01:06:37):
end over here. We're gonna flip the formation, and now
we're going to run the boot leg to the left
because Miles Garrett's lined up on the right. In theory,
that sounds great. In practice, it's not as easy. So
I don't know where they are with that whole thing.
But you know, I mentioned the tackle trap play that
goes four minus four on first down from like I

(01:06:57):
think it was like inside the five right on the
opening drive there, basically kill the drive and force them
to kick a field goal. There they run tackle trapped
to a wide nine. So like the defensive end on
the side of the field that they're pulling to is
all the way outside the tackle. He's way outside. So
now Morgan Moses has to go from right tackle. He's
going to pull all the way to the front side

(01:07:20):
of the play, all the way out to a wide
nine technique defensive end. Like he's not going to get there.
He's just not Like it's just not a possibility. And
so what happens. You know, the guy comes into the backfield.
I think it was Alex right, you know, he comes
screaming out the field, into the backfield, blows out to
play for four yard loss. So when we start looking
at those types of things, you know, where are they

(01:07:40):
at with checking in and out of plays? Where are
they at with Drake may having the controls and having
that ability. I think that might be Josh McDaniel's offense
PhD level, Like that might be the next step for
them in terms of the mental stuff and the pre
snap stuff defensively. Oh wait, I want to take talk
about sacks. So I mentioned all six sacks took more

(01:08:03):
than four seconds, so this was not a jail break situation.
I wrote down somewhere, Hopefully I have it somewhere where
like all the sacks were to blame, right, and who
was to blame in my mind, you know, I'm not
in the room. I don't know for one hundred percent,
but just where the blame was for some of the sacks.

(01:08:23):
So I look at the very first sack in the
red zone and wasn't a great execution on the chip
by Will Campbell. He lets Miles Garrett around him. But
I kind of felt like that was also a little
bit on may Like I thought he held the ball
a little bit on that play. They did ship Miles Garrett.
It happened in over four seconds. There was an open

(01:08:43):
receiver in the middle of the field. He also could
have ran out to his right, you know, and try
to extend the play that way. So I kind of
looked at that one as I gave it to Campbell,
like it's Campbell's sack, But I also kind of look
at it and say the quarterback could helped him out
a little bit there. The other Miles Garrett sacks, one
of them was on Jared Wilson on a stunt. He

(01:09:06):
stunted inside a little tn he wraps inside, beats Jared Wilson.
He beat Morgan Moses on the hunt move like a
couple of times and finally got a sack out of
it on Morgan Moses and then they had the bootleg sack.
So two on Campbell on the chips, one on Wilson,
one on Moses, one on scheme or you know, play call.

(01:09:26):
I didn't think this was a disastrous game from Will Campbell.
I really didn't, And watching it back, I thought he
was really good against Miles Garrett one on one, got
him eight times without any help. One on one, I
thought he won seven of them and the one time
that he didn't win, Drake May stepped up in the
pocket and scrambled, so it wasn't a pressure. I thought
that he was much better without the chips and the chips,

(01:09:48):
I'm sure you talked to David Andrews a little bit about,
you know, the technique and all that kind of stuff.
It just wasn't executed properly. But outside of the two sacks,
which were more about his execution I thought than Miles Garrett,
I really think that this was a okay game for
Will Campbell. I'm not gonna excuse him for the sacks,

(01:10:08):
but I think that it was better than the original
watch made it see him.

Speaker 1 (01:10:13):
A first ballot Hall of Famer, made a rookie look
like a rookie going up against the first ballot Hall
of Famer like.

Speaker 2 (01:10:17):
It wasn't a disqualifying game by any means.

Speaker 1 (01:10:19):
He needs to be better than that most weeks, but
he's not facing Miles Garrett most weeks. Right, you mentioned
the chips, and what Andrews had talked about was, you know,
the chip is not necessarily meant to buy you time.

Speaker 2 (01:10:32):
It's to offset the center of gravity.

Speaker 1 (01:10:35):
And what Campbell does is he used it to buy time,
so he hunter Henry chips, he's still back in his
pass set, and then he lets Garrett come to him,
so it's essentially resetting the rush. It does buy you
a second, but it doesn't actually make anything easier for
Campbell in the one on one. If anything, it makes
it harder because now Garrett has more of a head
of team coming to him. And what Andrews pointed out

(01:10:57):
is later in the game, it wasn't against Garrett, it
was against somebody else. They get the same look, and
this time Will Campbell steps up and meets him right
in the chip, meets the rusher right in the chip,
instead of letting the rusher come to him, so you
saw the growth there. I don't think Will Campbell's at
the point where he's Trent Brown, We're all right, we're
not gonna chip because it's gonna throw him off.

Speaker 2 (01:11:18):
He just has to.

Speaker 1 (01:11:19):
He didn't really get chip help in college, so it's
not something he's done a lot.

Speaker 2 (01:11:23):
He has to learn how to. This was also a
very different type of chip help because, like Hunter, Henry
literally is like chucking him off the line of scrimmage,
like he's engaging him off the line of scrimmage in
his face. Whereas as the game we're on, there's a
couple of more instances. One on I believe it was
Booty's touchdown where they executed the chip better, but also

(01:11:45):
that he got chip help from the running back instead
of the tight end on the line of scrimmage. And
I think those he looks a little bit more comfortable
with because that helps him with the short corner, right,
because we talked a lot about with him, you know,
and the ability, you know, to get a little bit
over aggressive and kind of get off his landmark and

(01:12:07):
then open the inside to those inside rush moves. When
you get a little bit of help, you know from
the running back coming out of the backfield. What that
can do is that pushes the rusher back inside. So
instead of allowing the rusher to threaten the corner and
open up Will Campbell now he can kind of set
a little bit more to the inside and have that
ability to just let the chip kind of just push

(01:12:28):
him back inside towards him. So I think the running
back chip help. He's better at that. So like if
I when they're moving forward, if you're not gonna see
Miles scared again, thank god, But if they see another
pass rusher that's an elite guy. I don't even know
when or if, but if they do, then I think
the running back chip help is he seems more comfortable
with that than he did with the tight end chips.

(01:12:50):
And then as the game we're on, like he closed
down the space and he got much better at it,
even with Hunter Henry working on the chips. But I
agree with the point when he goes and chip, like
Campbell needs to take that time to go get his
hands on Garrett, right. He can't sit back and try
to catch Garrett. You want to chip him from the
tight end, campb will get aggressive. He gets his hands

(01:13:11):
on him too, and now we're running riding him around
the edge again. I thought he was much better on
one on one pass pro in this game than he
was with the Chips. So those were the sacks, you know.
I like to see them take a little bit fewer sacks,
you know, Drake May take a little bit of fewer sacks.
I think this goes hands in hand a little bit
with the man coverage stuff that we saw from Cleveland
in this game, which I think more teams are gonna

(01:13:33):
try against the Patriots. Even though the Patriots won some
rounds in man coverage, the forty four yard at a
pop being a big one. The twenty eight yard scramble
by may was against man coverage, they also had to pick.
They had five sacks of their six sacks were in
man to man. Man with a spy on Drake May
might be might be the book of what teams try

(01:13:55):
playing zone against Drake may As a death sentence. Do
not play zone against this kid. Like second him the
league and EPA against zone coverage, he is lighting up zone.
The only quarterback in the league that has been better
against zone covers than Drake may As Patrick Mahomes so
like that's not an answer. You know, these two deep zones,
he's covered two's like he's just shredding those types of zones.

(01:14:17):
Man to man is more about the receivers than it
is about the scheme or the quarterback. Can the receivers
get open? That that's the difference. So I think we're
gonna see a little bit more of that moving forward.
You spy Drake May with a linebacker, you know, Carson's
Wessinger did it on his pick. He's a spy in
that play. And then you play man to man on
the back end. Can the receivers separate consistently against man?

(01:14:41):
If you spy Drake May, can he outrun the spy?

Speaker 3 (01:14:44):
You know?

Speaker 2 (01:14:44):
Is that a factor or not a factor? I think
that's where we're headed here. If you keep playing zone
against Drake May, he's gonna be the most efficient quarterback
in the league all year. Like that, that's just gonna
be a death sentence for teams. Maybe the man to
man stuff is it? Browns kind of found something in
that first half. The Falcons a aj Terrell, It's not

(01:15:05):
really what they do. They're more of his own defense.
I don't know if they're gonna play a lot of
man in this game. It's not really their book. It's
not really their mo Tampa maybe, Like you know, I
don't know if these teams have it in terms of
the horse. Yeah, so that's the thing. It's easier said
than done. You got to have the horses to do it.

Speaker 1 (01:15:21):
And then you know, not this year, but long term,
if you're the Patriots, you go out and you get
a bunch of man beater wide receivers and you put
him around Drake May. So that's if that's the book
on Drake May, that's not an easy defensive game plan
to execute by any means, not for four quarters.

Speaker 2 (01:15:36):
No, And you know his big playability, his explosive playability
to run scramble and then also to extend plays and
give the receivers more time to open up against man coverage,
that's tough to cover too. So if you're gonna play man,
like I said, it's got to be with a spy,
it's got to be with a contained rush trying to
aim to keep him in the court, in the pocket

(01:15:56):
and make throws from the pocket, because if you let
him dip and rip like on the pop Douglas one,
he's gonna hit bombs down the field against broken coverage,
so it's a hard quarterback to solve. I mean, that's
what makes them good. But I do think demand stuff
in the first half that Cleveland played, they might see
a little bit more of that here moving forward. Going
over to the defense, I mentioned the script numbers are

(01:16:20):
just insane.

Speaker 5 (01:16:21):
You know.

Speaker 2 (01:16:21):
Right now, they're giving up seven point eight yards per play.
They're giving up an explosive play twenty four percent of
the time, and the opponent's first two drives of the game,
so they are last in the league in yards per
play on the first two drives of the game. They
then almost cut it in half for the rest of
the game. They go from seven point eight in the

(01:16:42):
opening script to four point seven outside of the script.
On defense, but similar to what we're talking about with
the sacks on offense, so far they've gotten away with it.
The question is when does that run out? It does it,
you know, But when and if that luck runs out,
you know, are they porked at that point?

Speaker 1 (01:17:01):
I mean, look against better offensive teams, it's gonna be
much much harder. You can't put yourself in that hole
like Tampa. Tampa is the game I'm watching for in
that regard.

Speaker 2 (01:17:10):
Yeah, So last thing here, the biggest thing that I
see with this defense that's still breaking my brain. And
I'm going to keep harping on this until they prove
me right or proved me wrong. Twenty eighth in the
league in past DVA, fourth in the league in scoring.
Defense doesn't add up. It doesn't add up. So I

(01:17:30):
looked this up. I went back five years. Over the
last five years, eighty percent of the defenses that finished
top ten in scoring also finished top ten in past
DV away. So the best pass defenses in the league
are also the best scoring defenses in the league. Shocker.
There's always one outlier. Maybe the Patriots are it. The
Niners are also another outlier. This season, their pass defense

(01:17:53):
has struggled, but statistically speaking, again, if you continue to
play pass defense level, the numbers are telling us that
water is going to find its level eventually with the scoring.
So can they keep up this level of scoring defense
as the stakes ray eyes as the opponents get better.

(01:18:13):
If they don't improve significantly as a pass defense, I
think is another thing that could come back up. In
let's say January, when we're talking about why their season ended,
it might be because they faced Patrick Mahomes or Justin
Herbert or Josh Allen and they couldn't get off the
field on defense and they couldn't stop. I think that
there's some truth to that, because you know, in this game,

(01:18:35):
like Dylan Gabriel has Isaiah Bond wide open down the
field and misses him. Patrick Mahomes or Justin Herbert or
Josh Allen is not missing that throw like this quarterback
does you know? Ward? You know has one good half
of football, but doesn't have four quarters of good football
in Tennessee the week before. You know, this type of
stuff might come up to haunt them once they face

(01:18:58):
better teams, so that the good and the bad. I
didn't really have anything that got them beat. I thought
I did.

Speaker 1 (01:19:03):
They had some sloppy plays late that against the better
team would.

Speaker 2 (01:19:06):
Would concern me.

Speaker 1 (01:19:08):
Uh on sidekick fumble, yeah, along an onside kick recovery,
Travon Henderson fumbling at the goal, and they had some
avoidable penalties. Marte Mapu lines up incorrectly on the opening kickoff,
a couple third down fall starts at third and one fall.
I forget which one was which Hunter Henry and Mike
and Wnnu got called for fall start. BA one was
on a third and one, which pushed them back to

(01:19:29):
third and five and they stall out and the others
on a third and long. But it was at the
end of the first half there and temporarily took him
at a field goal range if if you know, May
doesn't hit that throat a booty, which, by the way,
you know it's ridiculous. Kishon Boody had that stretch of
consecutive catches for a first down. I think it reached
twelve and it snaps because he gets twenty three yards
on third and twenty four.

Speaker 2 (01:19:48):
But this is what I'm talking about, right, Like, they
get into third and twenty four and they get knocked
out of field goal range before halftime most teams, that's dead, right, Like,
that's not your right. But so they hit a twenty
one yard pass and they get right back into very
makeable field goal range, not just field goal range like
under fifty yard old.

Speaker 1 (01:20:05):
Let's also give Andy burg Alli some credit. He's been
really good lately and that's gone under the radar.

Speaker 2 (01:20:09):
Yeah, but I mean he's not exactly hitting bombs like you.
No forty two is. I mean, it's not a chip shot,
but it's manageable.

Speaker 1 (01:20:16):
But this might like you're right, that usually doesn't happen,
which is why I put that penalty in the stuff
that gets you beat category. Yeah, they recovered on sidekick,
the fumbled the goal line, a bad bad chank punt
from Bryce Bearing or just like they kind of let
go of the rope at the end there, and yeah,
you know, I'm sure Mike Rabel will that's probably all
they've heard about all week.

Speaker 2 (01:20:34):
So sacks, pass defense, some of the situational football late
in the game. You know, those are the things that
when you get into a game against a healthy Baltimore,
Buffalo Tampa playoffs like those are the things that you
hope they can fix. They can fine tune, they can correct,
and you know, before the players.

Speaker 1 (01:20:55):
You know, it's it's crazy. They they haven't looked like
a young team as much as they probably should have
at points this year except in those moments. So you
hope later in the year, like they don't look like
as much of a young team because.

Speaker 2 (01:21:12):
They're not as young at that point. Bill Belchick, you
said no rookies was once you get past Thanksgiving? Right, Yeah,
something like that, Bill Belichick all right, Patty's Patty's in
the agoa, we're going to take the casts. I know,
I always leave you guys on. Hold, what's up Patty?

Speaker 7 (01:21:28):
Hey, what's going on?

Speaker 5 (01:21:29):
Guys?

Speaker 2 (01:21:29):
How are you doing.

Speaker 5 (01:21:31):
Good?

Speaker 7 (01:21:32):
So I got a point and a couple questions to
end with. I know this is probably not going to
be a very popular take, but I don't know if
I would want to trade for Trey Hendrickson just because
of the age. He's injured right now, and realistically he's
been great, he's been a great player, But how many
more great years are you going to get out of him,
you know, especially like if if he comes here and

(01:21:55):
then he decides to test the market afterwards, So there's
you know, trading for somebody like that is a little
bit ballatle in my opinion. Alexi brought up their name
boy A my fey. I mean, like as far as
defensive ends go, I know, like Ard and Key's a
popular name. But if you're gonna swing for defenses like Mafe,
if he's available, I would, I mean, I would give
up a date two picks for that guy. My two questions.

(01:22:18):
A lot of a lot of people bring up Jerome Forard.
Alexi brought him up earlier, but and I would I
would very much welcome him on the team. But a
guy that doesn't get mentioned a lot that I would
like to see here, who can he's return kicks in
the past, he hasn't done it in the past two years.
Is Tony Pollard and he could be your third down
running back and possibly get him out there to return kicks.

(01:22:39):
What do you guys feel about that? And Kevin, you
you brought up like obviously the sack numbers and the
pressure numbers on may we know that during his North
Carolina career he did run a lot of RPOs. As
the season gets gets a little bit more deep and
Josh opens up the playbook, do you think they add

(01:22:59):
a few RPOs a game just to see if we
can get the ball out quickly so he doesn't get
that quick pressure. And I'll take it off there.

Speaker 2 (01:23:05):
Guys, Thanks Pat, thanks for the call. Yeah, they they haven't.
They've gone away from some of that stuff, you know,
RPO read option. They do it a little bit on
the goal line where I don't know if it's a
true read option. He might just kind of be threatening
the backside to try to like hold the backside and
kind of give them pause. But they haven't done a
ton of RPO stuff lately. They instead of doing that,

(01:23:28):
they've kind of went more to the boots and the
under center and moving the pocket and like getting him,
you know, his legs involved that way instead. So I
don't know if that's a comfort thing, like maybe he
feels more comfortable. I know he did a lot of
RPO at college, so you would think that he would
be comfortable with that. But it's different in the NFL.

Speaker 3 (01:23:46):
You know.

Speaker 2 (01:23:46):
One of the big things with RPOs it's different in
the NFL is how far down the field you can
block legally on RPOs. In the NFL it's I think
it's two yards. In college, it's like five or something
crazy like that. Yeah, so you see the lineman way
further down on the field and the run action in
college and that mesh, like you can hold the mesh
for a lot longer than you can in the NFL.

(01:24:07):
So I think that that's why you're seeing some of
these RPO schemes that have trickled up to the NFL.
They haven't been quite as effective since they first kind
of broke in with it. Because of that. I think
defenses have adjusted, But I would also say, you know,
the rules in the NFL with the illegal man downfield
penalties is definitely a little bit more restrictive than it

(01:24:30):
is in the college game. And then also like the hashes, right,
like you know, there's a lot more space to the
field in the college game than there is in the
pro game as well. What was the Tony Pollard? Yeah,
so yeah, I.

Speaker 1 (01:24:45):
Feel like that's a guy that you know, I think
they're probably looking at in my mind, would be looking
to add a third running back. Yeah, and Tony Pollard's
the guy with his pedigree and the way he's played.
I don't think you want to bury Traveon Henderson. How
is he going to handle coming here and being in
a third running back role. Weren't there some reports that
he didn't love splitting carries with Ezekiel Elliott and Dallas.

(01:25:08):
And I think they probably want to go younger too.
You know, Tony Pollard's only twenty eight, but for running
back that that's getting up there a little bit. Yeah,
now Taja Spears, Yeah, as a you know, five minute back,
third running back, the Titans backup running back would make
more sense to me.

Speaker 2 (01:25:24):
I think if you're gonna go as big as Tony Pollard.

Speaker 1 (01:25:28):
Well, at that point you called the Jets about Reese
hal and I just don't think that's the kind of
back they need to add. They don't need somebody to
the top the depth chart. They just need a third guy,
a body who's gonna be able to split some carries
with Stevenson. I don't know that the Pollard's going to
slide into that role.

Speaker 2 (01:25:44):
So I I had thought about Tony Pollard during Titans Week, obviously,
just because it was relevant at the time. If Remandre's
fumbling issues continued and they really had to bench Remandre,
then it would make more sense, and I thought I
thought it made a lot of sense. Obviously, it's only
been two games where he's had it a little bit
better under wraps in terms of the fumbling, But it

(01:26:07):
seems like they've he's sort of leveled off in that regard.
Red he had to fumble in Buffalo, I think might
have been the last one that he fumbled, yes, And
so I think that that's hopefully they've kind of corrected
that and we're moving past that. If they were in
a position where they had to bench Fromandre, Stevenson because

(01:26:27):
of fumbling, then Tony Poller would have made a lot
of sense. But because they aren't in that position, I
think I'm more with you that they need a third
running back. You know, Tajy Spears is a good shout.
You know, Jerome Ford is a guy just for the
kickoff returns to is a good shout. Those types of
players more so than you know, Tony Poller is making
a lot of money, like Tony Powler's like a ten

(01:26:47):
eleven million dollar a year running back. They're not doing
that unless he's starting and he's playing. Now, what was
the other thing I was gonna say about the backs?
I don't remember. Let's let's keep garling what they calls
Sam is in Virginia. What's up to say?

Speaker 8 (01:27:01):
Hey, guys, thanks for taking my college.

Speaker 2 (01:27:03):
Thanks for waye. I appreciate it.

Speaker 8 (01:27:05):
Oh yeah, of course, just one quick question. That's the deadline.

Speaker 2 (01:27:10):
No.

Speaker 8 (01:27:10):
We opened up the show talking about the dugger trade
a little concerned about the safety deaths here. I mean,
Jalen Hawkins and Craig Woodson has emerged and seemed like uh,
solid starters, but that's just kind of an issue all
around their roster, especially in the safety room. Now I'm
curious if you could see a trade on the margins

(01:27:32):
for for sue safety help. I don't take it off there.

Speaker 2 (01:27:34):
Thanks for the call us, Sam, Yeah absolutely. I mean
they signed Sonders from the Dolphins practice squad. That's, you know,
similar to signing Richie Grant to their practice squad. It
feels very depthy, like that doesn't feel like a guy
that could truly step in to a third safety role.
I wonder how they feel about del Pettis. You know,
maybe they feel like he's made strides behind the scenes.
He's a decent find as a rookie, as an undrafted

(01:27:57):
rookie last year, maybe he can be that safety. I
would still entertain all safety suggestions. I'll keep pounting the
table to try to pry a Moni Hooker out of Tennessee.
I don't know if that's just happened last offseason he did. Yeah,
I don't know if that's gonna happen, But Tennessee says
they're open for business on everybody that isn't Cam Warden

(01:28:17):
and Jeffrey Simmons. So I'm at least making the phone call. Vrabel,
guy grew up in that system, would definitely be seamless.

Speaker 4 (01:28:25):
Now.

Speaker 2 (01:28:26):
With all that being said, Woodson I think has shown
enough flashes that I'd like to continue to develop. Craig Woodson.
Jalen Hawkins, for what it's worth, is PFF seventh rated safety.
He's been playing well.

Speaker 1 (01:28:39):
I mean, hamstring injuries are tricky, as we've learned this year,
but he has been playing well. It's that's in the
short term, like, well, this will be different when.

Speaker 2 (01:28:49):
We get to the offseason. In the short term, that's more.

Speaker 1 (01:28:52):
I don't think they need to go out and try
to find like somebody who's going to push Hawkins off
the depth chart. I just you know, the depth eyes
up really quickly. You already have Hawkins dealing with an injury.
Craig Woodson's been on the injury report. Do they have
the bodies there is more of the question for me. Look,
I take them on the hooker, certainly, but I think
you can get by for this year with Hawkins and Woodson.

(01:29:13):
You don't need to move a third round pick at
the deadline right to get a new starting safety.

Speaker 2 (01:29:18):
Yeah, agreed. I think they figured out with Hawkins, he's
just not at man coverage on tight end safety. They
got burned a couple times by Brat Bauers and the opener,
and I think they kind of were like, all right,
we've seen enough. Yeah, that's not his role now that
they got him, you know, kind of doing a little
bit of everything, playing deep, playing in the box and
being more of like a free defender that's just allowed

(01:29:39):
to roam and play over the top and great interception
on Sunday, you know, playing the deep part of the
field like that's his game. He's not gonna go cover
Kyle Pitts one on one. That's not his game. Yeah,
So if you're looking for safety type, like that's the type.
Like they need somebody to cover the tight end. They
tried Marte Mapi. We played one play nineteen yards off

(01:30:01):
the field, right like they They've tried Hawkins not so good.
They've tried Woodson not so great. They've tried, you know,
just zoning off the tight end. Right now, they're fifth
in the league and yards allowed to tight ends. Dalton
kick went off against them, brought Bowers went off against
them in this game. I think Kyle Pitts could go
off against them if he gets the quarterback play that

(01:30:24):
he needs to do. So, so it's a position that
is more like a role that they need to fill,
Like they need to cover safety. So what about a
coverage linebacker. Sure, I don't know if he's going one
on one against the tight end, but I like Logan
Wilson as a player, Like I think it's an upgrade
over Ellis to Vai Gibbons, like at that spot next

(01:30:45):
to Splane. I don't know if he's the answer to
all your tight end problems, but I would kick the
tires on it just because of the upgrade that it
would be at that level. I just I don't know
if it's scheme. I don't know if they can do
something differently scheme wise. But you know, even Harold Fannon,
you know, nineteen yard third down crosser touchdown on an
eighteen yard play and Joco got him once.

Speaker 1 (01:31:07):
I do think the touchdown was a miscommunication, busty coverage, Yeah,
but still yeah, yeah.

Speaker 2 (01:31:12):
They do know they need a tight end stopper, and
that's a long term meet. It's a problem. It's been
a problem. All right, Let's go back to the phones.
Uh Don is in Philly? What's up? Don? Hey? Guys, Hey,
how are we doing?

Speaker 3 (01:31:25):
Not want us to discuss the secondary really quickly. You know,
while the Marcus Jones extension obviously we're gonna have to
shell out a lot of cash. Figazol is most likely
the SAFT season. What I was looking up Carlton Davis's
contract looks like he has like thirty four million guaran speed.

(01:31:47):
That's a lot of cash that's going to be spent
towards the secondary. Do you possibly see us unloading Carlton
Davis maybe at the end of this year, seeing if
we can find a trade partner. It just seems like
there's some hold on the defense that we could use,
you know, fill that, you know, that linebacker spot, maybe

(01:32:07):
get another stafety somewhere, just because they're also spending so
much money on the D line. And secondly, you know,
now we have ten draft picks this upcoming year, a
lot in the sixth round. Sounds like we're going to
try to get some depth, but we really need to,
you know, help Drake may out in the long run,

(01:32:27):
and I think Evans said it the other day, we
just we can't just keep this same or going forward.
I doubt there's going to be a move at the
trade deadline for someone that's you know, truly going to
change how this roster you know, works this year in
terms of Drake's may development. But who are we targeting,
you know, maybe in the off season or who do

(01:32:49):
you guys want as like a dynamic playmaker to help
Drake May out. And I'll take it off you guys pick.

Speaker 2 (01:32:55):
Thanks Don, thanks for the call. You know, I to
that last point that that's my feeling on it is
just I'll look back at learning from mistakes in twenty
twenty one. Yeah, twenty twenty one, you have the big
off season, big free agency spending spree, record breaking at
the time you draft Mac Jones, he has a decent
rookie season, and then your big off season acquisition on

(01:33:19):
offense is Devonte Parker.

Speaker 7 (01:33:20):
Right.

Speaker 2 (01:33:21):
So I don't know how it fits into the puzzle
that they're building here offensively, but you need to do
something next off season to continue stacking right, and it
has to be better than something like davontee. I don't
think you need to rebuild the whole thing.

Speaker 1 (01:33:40):
But it's just like he said, add a playmaker or two,
whether that's in a draft, whether it's in fregency. We
talked about, you know, we know Josh McDaniels is happy
to go two tight ends. Do you get a more dynamic,
you know, yards after the catch tight end next to
Duranry's at the move?

Speaker 2 (01:33:54):
Do you try to find a you know, it's all right.

Speaker 1 (01:33:58):
Booty and Digs ideally would be your one and two
receivers again, do you try to find a third guy
with a little more explosiveness than Mac Hollins but more
consistency than Pop Douglas. Again, maybe that is Kyle Williams,
or maybe they go back to the draft a guy
like KC. Conception Own or you know, we could go
through all that. But to his point about Carlton Davis,

(01:34:20):
it's a it's a yeah, it's an expensive secondary, but
it's a good secondary.

Speaker 2 (01:34:24):
It's not like, well, I think the point that he's
trying to get at, and we can just address the
elephant in the room is Christian Gonzalez's future extension and
just future period when you're now the thing about Carlton
Davis though, you know, before I get into the whole
Gonzales of it all, Carlton Davis's contract is really only

(01:34:45):
a two year deal, right, so like in Gonzalez's money
doesn't kick in till twenty twenty seven, right, because he's
going to sign an extra Well, if he signs an extension,
I would asume they're gonna use to do the fifth
year option. Well, you can't do it that way. If
he signs an extension, then the extension kicks in after
his force, so you would have to wait until the
fifth year option year to then next sign the agree

(01:35:05):
to the fifth year option and then extend them on
top of the fifth year option. Yeah, how they're not
going to like say like, oh, we're fifth year option
and then like you have to team control for like
eight years. Well, it's still only going to overlap for
a year. So he has two more pure years on
his rookie contract right this year, next year? Yeah, taking
out the fifth year. So then if so if if
they move on next year and then the following year.

(01:35:28):
So yes, this is year two when when your extension
kick in? Year Oh god, now you're making me do
math live on the air. So he's going into his
fourth year next year, right, twenty two is twenty three,
twenty three, twenty four, twenty five, twenty six, twenty six
last year and the extent you kick in twenty seven,
So that's the hour we're not good at math, and
you're making me do it on the air. You and

(01:35:49):
you love the math.

Speaker 1 (01:35:50):
Uh, Carlton Davis. The twenty seven year on Carlton Davis's
contract is the dumb year.

Speaker 2 (01:35:56):
That's what you can get out of.

Speaker 1 (01:35:57):
You're not gonna be paying both those guys at the
same time after next year, after twenty twenty six. It's
a real conversation. Yes, I don't think, first of all,
there's a ton of dead cap if you do move
on from Carlton Davis after this year, at least if
you cut him, not if you trade him.

Speaker 2 (01:36:12):
But no, they're gonna They're in the Carlton Davis business
through twenty twenty six, as they should be. And I've
seen people say, oh, it's an expensive secondary. Now I
do something.

Speaker 1 (01:36:19):
It didn't like sneak up on them that they have
an expensive secondary. They didn't Harrod Gonzales, but he's on
a rookie contract. They signed Carlton Davis, they signed Marcus Jones.
Maybe they want a high priced secondary because they know
they value talent back there. And we've talked a lot
about how good they are developing pass rushers, and we've
seen the work that they've done with calevon Chase on Frankly,

(01:36:42):
the work they've done with Milton Williams as a run
player and how he's progressed. He's better than the player
he wasn't Philly, and it's credit to him and it's
credit to coaching staff. You know, we'll see hopefully maybe
some of these younger guys coming up Caleb Murphy and
Elijah Ponder and Braden Swinton at some point. But like
the Patriots kind of did this in reverse when they

(01:37:03):
had Belichick here, they could develop the hell out of
some cornerbacks and so they put more draft resources. They
put more financial resources into the front because hey, we
can go find Jonathan Jones, j C.

Speaker 2 (01:37:16):
Jackson, Malcolm Butler.

Speaker 1 (01:37:17):
Now there's obviously exceptions, right Stefan Gilmore, But you build
your team around your strengths and weaknesses, and they may
look at it, and this is a little over simplified,
but they may look at it and say, hey, you know,
the guys we have coach in the front, and that's
just something that clicks for us, and we can develop
guys there better than we can in the secondary. So
let's pump some money in the secondary, get set back there,

(01:37:40):
and yeah, maybe we're not working with the same high price,
high draft pick guys up front, but we know that
we can identify and develop the talent to get more
out of those guys than the average team would.

Speaker 2 (01:37:50):
So it's just but you have Milon Williams under a
big contract, you have a Christian Barmore under a big contract.
I wouldn't call Marcus Jones' contract big, but it's for
the position. He's well paid now once the extension kicks in.
I just think that I'm a little bit on your
station side of the street with this. With Gonzales, the

(01:38:10):
Felger and maz take of you know, is he here
long term? Is he a rabel guy? Is he are
they fully thrilled with him? I just I hope that
all that dust kind of settles and they end up
extending Gonzales and making him one of the highest paid
corners in football. But I'm not fully convinced yet that
that is one hundred percent going to happen. That's just

(01:38:32):
my opinion, is not anything else other than a take.
But I just I hope that that does happen. But
we'll see. I think we'll see, And I don't think
that has anything to do with Carlton Davis, by the way, No,
it doesn't. It's independent.

Speaker 1 (01:38:45):
I think they've We've had that question about a lot
of players, and ultimately you can kind of draw a line.
I think there are players that we identified as maybe
not being rabel guys. The ones that performed are still here.
Anthony Jennings played his way back onto this roster. He
was not going to make the team at the start
of camp. That's just it just looked plain and simple.

Speaker 2 (01:39:05):
Then he was really good.

Speaker 1 (01:39:06):
The guys that aren't performing are not here, and I
think yesterday is a perfect example of that with Keon
White and Kyle Dugger. So they're in the business of
keeping good football players. And you look at Marcus Jones,
another guy did not look like a fit and and
just gets an extension. They're in the business of keeping
good football players. Christian Zalez is a good football player.

Speaker 2 (01:39:26):
Great, I mean he's he looked great against Cleveland. It
is not a great wide receiver.

Speaker 1 (01:39:30):
Room is not a great How many how many guys
that we we kind of put in a box is
not verbel Guys are still here that aren't performing, Like.

Speaker 2 (01:39:46):
I don't know, that's a tough question for me to answer, Uh,
you could say the one maybe on the offensive line.

Speaker 1 (01:39:54):
He'd been he had a couple of rough weeks, but
he was good to start the year. The one I
look at maybe is Stevenson with the but they don't
really have another option there.

Speaker 2 (01:40:02):
Yeah. I just I'm not saying again I I this
is not informed at all. I am just telling you
that I still think that that prove it thing with
Christian Gonzales still exists. We know in the past that
Rable hasn't been thrilled about soft tissue injuries and hamstrings,
and that thing lingered and took a lot longer than

(01:40:24):
it should have. Now he's starting to come back and
look like Christian Gonzalez again. I certainly this last week
I think was his best game so far. He's going
to but against Buffalo too. Yeah, but I thought that
this was his best week so far. So if he
finishes the season like this, if he goes nine games,
then I think that we are talking tout. This is
my point.

Speaker 1 (01:40:42):
They're in the business of keeping good football players. If
Gonzalz gives them a reason to keep them, they're going
to keep them a great I think the one thing
you look at and this is big picture. Is guys
that because of their contract, because of their draft standing,
because of you know, previous leadership or starting roles or whatever.
Guys that in a vacuum may have more of a

(01:41:04):
leash to work through struggles. On the average team, don't
under Mike Vrabel because he's trying to get the program
up and running, and he doesn't you know, he didn't
draft him that high, he didn't sign him into that contract.
He doesn't have that kind of allegiance to them. Those
are the guys that you look at and Okay, is
he not a rabele guys are gonna go. So if
Gonzales were to slip, that conversation comes into play. But

(01:41:27):
like you said, he's been playing well, and if he
keeps playing like this, just like Marcus Jones played well
and not only hung around, got an extension to a
lesser extent, Anthony Jennings played well, kept himself on the
team and now is in a role where like they
need him and.

Speaker 2 (01:41:40):
Is in kind of a that I just, yeah, there
was a lot of money, I know what you're saying.
Giving the counter Gonzo w and the hamstring thing was happening.
I just I'm just giving you the counter to it.
I understand. I just think that when we start to
look down the road, and again, this isn't about salary,
cap space, It's not about any of that kind of stuff.

(01:42:01):
It's just a business. He saw the guy, Yes, but
I'm just talking about the money, like we saw this
in Dallas with Micah Parsons. Like it's just a business.
And when you're going to have to pay the quarterback
probably the biggest contract in the history of the NFL,
not before long, and then you're gonna also make Gonzales
the highest paid corner in the league. And then you

(01:42:21):
also have Milton Williams on a big contract, and you
also have Christian barm We're on a big contract. Like
this is the problem that good teams have. Like this
is the problem that good teams have. The Chiefs ran
into it. It's why they traded Tyreek Hill. Like this
is a problem that good teams have. I don't want
to get bught.

Speaker 1 (01:42:37):
Down by the will to say real quick, I want
to talk Falcons so quick Milton Williams contract.

Speaker 2 (01:42:42):
Comes off the books by the time they pay Track
May okay, I mean again, like by what like Drake
May is in year two, so he's a contract extension
eligible year from January and then he's four years into
his rookie contract. Again. I don't want to do math
on the air.

Speaker 1 (01:43:00):
Extensional hit twenty twenty eight, which is technically last year
of Milton Williams deal, but it's it's kind of a
dummy year, like it's all there's no dead money on it.

Speaker 2 (01:43:07):
Okay, so at the very least they could. I'm not
worried about the contracts with the salary. I'm worried about
the cash. I'm worried about them having to dole out
a probably four hundred million dollars contract by that point.
Milton Williams is for the accounting of it, not for
when they actually have to start writing them checks.

Speaker 1 (01:43:27):
Right, They're not writing I don't think they're writing Milton
Williams big checks at that point, is what I'm saying.

Speaker 2 (01:43:32):
But the guaranteed money is the guaranteed money, like when
he signs the deal, they have to actually put the
money in escort actually right, and have to hold the
money for drake Man and it'll have been paid at
that point. But okay, I don't want to semari money. Yeah,
really quickly on the Falcons, I can come to your
side of the street for a second. Here with the
Atlanta Falcons of offense, I think it's how do I

(01:43:56):
put this playly? I think it's crazy that they're twenty
eighth in the league and scoring twenty eighth in the lead.
Were scoring with Bijon Robinson, Kyle Pitts, Drake London, Darnell Mooney.
A decent offensive line, not like a CIVO. They got
some injuries, but yes, Cale McGarry got hurt. That that
you know, they're starting right tackles out for the year.

(01:44:17):
That that was big.

Speaker 1 (01:44:18):
Yeah they didn't have and they didn't London miss last
week and oh sure, but yeah, this.

Speaker 2 (01:44:24):
Was happening before. You know, this was getting shut out
by the Carolina Panthers, way before any of these, like
you know, London and Pennics injury issues started to pop up.
Your boy Pennic is not playing particularly well. No he's not.
That's upsetting. That's a part of it is does that
offense make sense for him? So this offense, to me,

(01:44:44):
you're gonna love this take. This is a social media offense.
They do all these fancy motions and dipsy dudes and
oh we're gonna have four receivers on one side of
the formation and go four strong, and we're gonna motion bijon.
He's gonna art outside, and he's gonna motion inside, and
he's gonna motion back outside, and he's gonna motion into
the pistol and then we're gonna hand him the ball.

(01:45:05):
But then sometimes we're gonna throw them screen and we're
just doing all this different stuff, and all these defenses
are just letting the Falcons offense go into a blender
and then they're just sorting it out after the snap, right,
and they're just like, you're doing all this fancy stuff
for no reason. No wonder the Dolphins cook them. They're
used to seeing that. It's different. The Dolphins motion with

(01:45:28):
the purpose. Yes, yes, the Dolphins and the Rams and
the Niners. I can show you physical evidence of the
motioning for purpose. This Falcon's team niner. Yes, this Falcons
team motions for fun. They motion because it's cool and
like that, in my mind is killing them, along with
the fact that every freaking time they line up in
the pristol they just run outside zone.

Speaker 1 (01:45:50):
Yeah right, I don't think they know how to use
So I'm a big fan of pistol. I think pistols
an underused concept in the NFL. And I say that,
and then everybody points to the falcons and say, do
you really think that? Look what the falcons are doing.
I don't think they're using pistol correctly. First of all,
you tell me this. Are they lining up too deep
when they're in the pistol? It feels like bijon so

(01:46:10):
far back.

Speaker 2 (01:46:11):
I think the biggest issue with them with the in
the pistol is that they run the ball seventy one
percent of the time out of the pistol, So it's
just a dead giveaway what they're doing. And really all
they do post nap they run outside zone and they
run boot off of outside. They don't do a lot
out of it.

Speaker 1 (01:46:27):
They don't do a lot at which the whole beauty
of pistol is you get to run so many of
the under center concepts that are taken away by having
to be in the shotgun. Will still getting the view
of the shotgun. You can run outside zone out of
the shotgun.

Speaker 2 (01:46:41):
So if I won, you know two little things on that, yeah,
the fact that their quarterback isn't mobiles killing them, because
when you run the pistol. The biggest advantage I would
say about running the pistol is running readoption and you know,
RPOs and stuff like that out of the pistol A

(01:47:01):
la Lamar Jackson, right like that, that's the advantage of
being in the pistol. Pennix with his two knees isn't
running anywhere. So therefore you just you know what you're
getting when they're in the pistol. They are awfully predictable.
Out of the pistol. They don't go under center unless
it's Victoried formation. Like, they don't run anything from under center,

(01:47:23):
which Penix is good under center. Washington get the quarterback
under center, Like, I don't understand that. So their offense
makes no sense.

Speaker 5 (01:47:31):
You know.

Speaker 2 (01:47:31):
I like Zach Robinson. I think he's a bright guy.
He does Oklahoma state head coach. He does a lot
of creative things. He does a lot of bells and
whistles that I can clip and put on social media
and say, oh, look at this, this is cool. It
doesn't lead to anything. It doesn't lead to any production.
I'm sorry, I'm ranting on the Falcons offense. It just
annoys me. It annoys me when you have talent and

(01:47:54):
you do nothing but frustrates me defensively, really quickly, because
we have two minutes. It's good defense. Don't sleep on
this defense. Tenth and Dvoa pas number one pass defense
in football in terms of yards allowed, Number two pass
defense in football in terms of explosive plays allowed. So
they don't give up very many big plays. They don't

(01:48:15):
give up a lot of yards in the passing game.

Speaker 1 (01:48:17):
It's a strength on strength matters yards in the game.

Speaker 2 (01:48:21):
This year, yeah, it's a big time strength on strength.
Like the most explosive or second most explosive passing offense
in the league with the Patriots against the second most
at least explosive pass defense in the in football. I
really loved watching their defense and what they do schematically,
it's basically Robert Sala's Seattle three. Uh, you know, interpretation,

(01:48:43):
a lot of Cover three, a lot of quarters, but
then on third down and pass in obvious passing situations
all and I tried to find the the link. I can't.
They just like run a Brian Flores Cover zero package
just out of nowhere on like third and eight. It's crazy.
I don't know who learned it. I don't know where
it's coming from. I don't know if they just copied

(01:49:06):
it based off of studying it in the offseason. I
can't find a connection between the two coaching staffs. But
they're running a lot of fire zone zone pressure on
third down where they're dropping five or six guys into coverage,
but instead of playing man to man, they're playing zone.
Out of those looks, I want nothing to do with
that third down pressure package. Isn't an early down game

(01:49:27):
for the Patriots offense. You can run the ball in Atlanta.
That's their one wee weakness. Defensively. They're twenty fourth or
twentieth somewhere around there in the league in rush EPA.
They're giving up a lot of yards to gap runs,
you know, downhill power, crack tosses, counter scheme, lead duo,
all that good stuff. So you can run the ball

(01:49:48):
on them that maybe can sequence some play action off
the run. But the biggest thing I would say with
this pass defense, this is a good pass defense, Like,
you don't want to necessarily get into a lot of
third and long against this Falcons team. A scheme up
pressure at a really high level. Dude A Sky's coverage
at a really high level, it's fun watch this week.
As frustrated as I was watching their offense, I was

(01:50:10):
intrigued by their defense.

Speaker 1 (01:50:12):
I will say they can be run on a little bit.
So there is that if they can get the run
game going again. The one other split that's important, massive,
massive indoor outdoor split for this Falcons team.

Speaker 2 (01:50:24):
Yeah, they went to the shitter last week, but yeah
that was without Pennix. No, they've been bad outside. They've
been good in.

Speaker 4 (01:50:32):
No.

Speaker 2 (01:50:32):
So they played at home last week? What they played
at home last week? Oh they did played home last week? Yeah,
well they still been good out. You can make it
work without Penix, like with and without Penix, within.

Speaker 1 (01:50:40):
Without pen Yeah, they have not been a good outdoor team.
Their one good road game was indoors.

Speaker 2 (01:50:46):
All right, we got to wrap it up. I wish
we had more time to vent about the Falcons offense,
but we don't. We'll be back next week talk about
this Falcons game, talk about the Tampa Bay Buccaneers. That's
going to be a fun game too. So it's a
little two game, a little bit of better competition here
for the Patriots over the next couple of weeks. But
you will be live at noon. I'll see you guys then,

(01:51:07):
and we'll see you guys next week here on Cash
Pay two. Hey, this is Alex. Thanks for tuning into
the show. If you really want to help us, make
sure you like.

Speaker 8 (01:51:17):
Us on Apple Podcasts, Spotify or wherever you get your podcasts.

Speaker 2 (01:51:21):
Also, make sure you follow us on the New.

Speaker 5 (01:51:23):
England Patriots YouTube channel to see this show and everything
else we do here at the Patriots.

Speaker 2 (01:51:27):
Thanks a lot,

All Episodes

Episode Transcript

Popular Podcasts

Spooky Podcasts from iHeartRadio

Dateline NBC

Stuff You Should Know

.css-15opob5{left:0;position:absolute;top:0.8rem;} All Episodes

.css-14f5ked{margin:0;word-break:break-word;display:-webkit-box;-webkit-box-orient:vertical;box-orient:vertical;-webkit-line-clamp:2;overflow:hidden;}Patriots Catch-22 10/29: Extension/Trades/Potential Moves, 3 Up/Down vs. Browns, Falcons Preview

Episode Transcript

Popular Podcasts

.css-r6mb8g{margin:0;word-break:break-word;display:-webkit-box;-webkit-box-orient:vertical;box-orient:vertical;-webkit-line-clamp:1;overflow:hidden;}Spooky Podcasts from iHeartRadio

Dateline NBC

Stuff You Should Know

All Episodes

Patriots Catch-22 10/29: Extension/Trades/Potential Moves, 3 Up/Down vs. Browns, Falcons Preview

Spooky Podcasts from iHeartRadio