Patriots Catch-22 11/26: 3 Up/Down vs. Bengals, Injury Reports/Updates, Playoff Picture

Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:12):
This is the Patriots Catch twenty two podcasts with Evan
Lazar and Alex Barth.

Speaker 2 (00:17):
Blazarre and Lazarre. He everybody nailed it, joined as always
by our bar Ga Gavi.

Speaker 1 (00:26):
Here is Evan Lazar and Alex bar So.

Speaker 3 (00:29):
They're throwing the football almost seventy percent of the time
with Burrow or Flacco.

Speaker 2 (00:33):
It's the numbers are stagged.

Speaker 1 (00:34):
Today, ranked second in the league in past attempts, thirty
second in Russian house.

Speaker 3 (00:38):
It's bizarre because their run game is not terrible, and
Chase Brown's a good player. Now, maybe he's more of
like a scat back than a true downhill between the
tackles back, and maybe they need a compliment to Chase
Brown to be able to do that. But you know
the book, and this is with Chase, so I'll put
that caveat on there. But the book that's been forming
against this Flacco iteration of the Bengals is all right,

(01:00):
we're just gonna play two high safeties. We're gonna put
one safety over Chase. We're gonna put one safety over Higgins.
Joe Flacco's not going anywhere, so we don't have to
worry about him scrambling and we know you're not gonna
run the ball tops tops. To the Bengals credit out
they ran the ball a little bit in this game. Yeah,
they adjusted, and I thought that they actually had And

(01:23):
I'm not doing this to put lipstick on a pig
or anything like that for the Patriots, not that I
have to. They still won the game. But I actually
thought the Bengals had a really good coaching performance in
this game. From a game plan perspective. I know some
people are nippicky about some of their decisions, some of

(01:44):
their kick decisions and fourth downs things like that, but
I thought that defensively they were buttoned up, had a
good plan. I thought offensively, buttoned up had a good plan.
They knew the Patriots were shorthanded in the middle of
the defense without Milton Williams, and then Tonga goes out
pretty early in the game, and to their credit, they

(02:05):
handed the ball off to Chase Brown and let them
run it downhill at the Patriots.

Speaker 2 (02:09):
So I want to give the Bagels a little bit
of credit.

Speaker 3 (02:11):
I think that they they played a good game, they
played desperate, They coached well in this game. It was
a good game for Cincinnati. Now with that being said,
the Patriots have won nine in a row. If you've
heard that, They're ten and two. They are in a
great spot right now, with one game left until they're
bye week. But at the same time, you know, I

(02:35):
hate I hate being this guy. I hate being the like,
you know, the one that kind of like rains on
the parade of the nine straight wins after a big
w But at the same time, this injury to Will
Campbell looms large.

Speaker 2 (02:50):
It just does.

Speaker 3 (02:52):
And at this point, between losing Will Campbell, Jared Wilson,
and Milton Williams, I think Tongo will be all right,
but losing those three guys, it is really going to
be a challenge for this team. And I'm surprised a
little bit by some of the talking points coming out

(03:13):
of this game. I'm surprised how like calm everybody is
about this, where now all of a sudden they have
all this you know, built up trust in everybody in
the operation and the coaching staff that oh, yeah, well,
Campbell'll be fine, right, They'll put Viderien Low in there,
they'll give him help, and it'll be fine.

Speaker 2 (03:31):
And I think that there's some truth to that.

Speaker 3 (03:34):
But at the same time, I do have to kind
of go back to some of my prior feelings about
this team coming into the season and not be completely
jaded by a nine game winning streak. And look at
what we thought about this roster when it was assembled.
Was much better frontline talent, much better starting eleven on

(03:57):
both sides of the football. Do they have the depth?
Do they have the depth to with stand an injury
to will Campbell? Do they have the depth to restain,
you know, with stand an injury to Milton Williams, two
guys that I think that were at the very top
of the list if you had to put on the
list of the most important Patriots besides Drake May, I

(04:20):
might say that Campbell.

Speaker 2 (04:21):
And Williams were your two most important guys.

Speaker 1 (04:22):
Well, we even talked about this last week that defensive
tackle was the one spot that the Patriots could maybe
absorb that and it was going to make a difference,
And it did make a difference not having them now.
They also lost Tonga, which we obviously weren't factoring in
last week. We talked about like that was the one
kind of position where they had the depth to maybe

(04:44):
absorb that kind of loss. Offensive line definitely not.

Speaker 3 (04:48):
Yeah, and I don't maybe this is just knee jerk
off of one game, but it's really two games because
Milton Williams barely played against the Jets either. But I thought,
in particular against this this Bengals team, you know, we
just talked about off the top of the show, how
they ran the ball pretty effectively on the Patriots, and
I didn't really think there was much of a pass

(05:09):
rush until late in the game, on that last drive
where they kind of started to heat it up a
little bit because they had to pass. You know, the
Bengals had to throw the ball, so you start to
accumulate pressures and things like that when you know the
other team is going to drop that pass with no
play action or no run game, it's easier to tee off.

(05:30):
So I want to talk a little bit about, you know,
how they're gonna move forward here in the short term
without Campbell, without Jared Wilson, But I don't want I'm
just I guess I'm just a little bit surprised by
how nonchalant a lot of people are being about these injuries,
because again, I think that we knew that their roster

(05:54):
was better, and we knew that they improved the roster,
especially the frontline play at the top of the roster.
They had a better left tackle, they had a better
defensive tackle with Williams, they had better players at the
top of the roster. But if I could go back
to August and replay everything that all of us said
in August, it was that they still don't have great

(06:15):
depth on the roster. Now we're twelve weeks into the
season and they're ten to two, and all of a sudden,
everybody's fine with it, right, And I guess I'm just
a little bit surprised by that. I don't know how
you feel about it.

Speaker 1 (06:28):
A little bit. Look, I think when the team's going good,
people are gonna feel more confident. I remember, you know,
back in the in the Brady days, with a little
the flying elms on the side of the helmet, the
flying elvis on the side of the helmet, the that'll
we find the do they Brady yep? Do they bill yup?
They'll be good. And maybe there's a little bit of
that creeping in. Maybe some of it is. It didn't

(06:48):
immediately fall apart with Lowe and Ben Brown against the Bengals,
and that may have helped. So you know, I'm not
entirely sure. But I'm with you, I'm a little surprised
how how confident people are after this injury. Yeah.

Speaker 3 (07:01):
So I think a lot of this confidence stems from
Josh McDaniels, Doug Moron, Jason Hoddling, Ryan Coogler, and this
whole operation that they have going on with the offensive
line and the coordinator.

Speaker 2 (07:17):
There's no doubt about it that Josh McDaniels is.

Speaker 3 (07:22):
Much He's very very good and maybe one of the
best I've seen at scripting pass protection, right, Like, how
can we help tackles, chip help, you know, changing pitches, sliding,
moving the pocket, like doing different things that you can
do to avoid putting these tackles out on an island

(07:43):
where they're you know, just one on one all game
long against Abdull Carter and Brian Burns right on Monday night.
So there's some built up trust in mcdaniels's ability to
scheme around a left tackle that is a backup. And
I get that, and I think that that's very very true.
I think we both probably feel that it's gonna be

(08:06):
Verderian Low. I don't see why it wouldn't be Vederian Low.
Here moving forward at left tackle. I don't think that
there's a huge drop off from Wilson to Ben Brown.

Speaker 1 (08:16):
They talked about if.

Speaker 2 (08:18):
It was just that, I don't think I would be
all that concerned.

Speaker 3 (08:22):
But obviously, you know, Vederian Lowe not just based off
of last year. It just it's based off of a
lot of seeing Vederian low play and it's going to
be a drop off there. But mcdaniels's ability to you know,
like I said, to support tackles, whether that's chip help,

(08:43):
whether that's moving or sliding protection, whether that's moving the pocket,
whether that's you know, scripting run and play action, and
then not really getting into those traditional drop back settings
as much. You know, you don't want to get behind
against this Giants team or a backup left tackle. You
don't want you want to play the games on your terms.
You want to play the games on schedule so that

(09:04):
you can stay in favorable down in distance and that
way there you're not in third and nine and just
expecting these guys to pass block a lot uh one
on one on islands.

Speaker 2 (09:14):
There's all that stuff is fair, you know.

Speaker 3 (09:17):
I think the other thing that kind of has a
trickle down effect on this a little bit and I
think it might go hand in hand with the Munford
signing yesterday, is that I would expect the Patriots to
want to load up in protection a little.

Speaker 1 (09:31):
Bit more now.

Speaker 3 (09:33):
So they've done this already at a pretty decent clip,
you know, using six offensive lines, using like max protection
where they're only sending like two or three receivers into
the route at a time, and really putting like six
seven guys in the protection to kind of load up
the protection. Munford in the past has been with Josh

(09:56):
McDaniels in Vegas, and Josh McDaniels used him him in
that jumbo tight end role in Las Vegas. Now it
was Ben Brown and now he's going to be starting.
Then it was Vederian Lowe, and now he's going to
be starting. So you know, now you have this trickle
down effect of how do you get another offensive lineman
on the field, and maybe that's Munford.

Speaker 2 (10:18):
That would be my guess is what that's you.

Speaker 1 (10:20):
Know, I think Marcus Brown, Marcus Bryant.

Speaker 3 (10:22):
I think it's possible, but I feel like they they
didn't really do that. You know, like if they wanted
to do that on Sunday, they would have.

Speaker 1 (10:29):
Well, but they were practicing with Low as the extra
lineman or Brown is the extra lineman, right, Maybe they weren't,
but now this week that's something you installed just because
he's been here.

Speaker 2 (10:38):
Yeah, you could do that. You could do that.

Speaker 1 (10:40):
I like his athleticism in that role.

Speaker 3 (10:42):
Yeah, you could do that too. I think that that's
you know, a big part of too. And we'll get
to you know, the good, the bad, and the stuff
that gets to be here in a second. That that's
a big part of the goal line stuff to me
as well. Was Now Campbell was in it for both
line stands, but you get into this position where you

(11:03):
know you don't have Tonga, you don't have the package
of the six to zero line or the seven if
you want to count Tonga as an offensive lineman. They
use that against the Jets a little bit where they
had Ben Brown eligible and then they had Tonga eligible,
and they really had like seven beefy dudes on the field, right,
and they were able to run it in with Traveon Henderson.

(11:27):
If you you didn't have that at your disposal against
Cincinnati because of all the injuries, right, So you know
that that's a big part of that as well. So
I think that they're going to have some flexibility there
and try to figure out how to get back to
some of those packages as well. But my main, you know,
big point, and I want to get to some of
the more specific reasons why I'm a little small sea

(11:49):
concerned about all of this is one, I don't know
if this roster is ready to handle these types of injuries.
If they had an in and I don't want to
name names because I don't want to like single anybody
out that didn't act like, oh, that player is not important,
But if they had an injury to a wide receiver,
you know, Kashawan Boody, since he was hurt, Kayshawn Boody

(12:12):
goes out. Okay, you know, not ideal, But I think
that you had some depth there. I think you had
some NFL players there. I think this was the one
spot they couldn't lose his left tackle, and I think
Milan Williams was playing at such a high level that
that was another player that kind of got created there.
The other thing that I would say is, and you
know this is more of an US thing, ME thing. Yeah,

(12:34):
one of the biggest reasons to me why the Patriots
have done a one to eighty here and gone from
four wins to ten wins. Is the improvement in the trenches, obviously,
Drake May's improvement, the coaching improvement with Mike Rabel and
Josh McDaniel's huge part of it as well. But they
have really done a great job and it's not perfect,

(12:57):
but their level again on the offensive line, they're like
league average again on the offensive line. So instead of
being the worst offensive line in football year ago in
twenty twenty four, in twenty twenty five, they're probably like
the sixteenth best offensive line, and that has just been
such a huge part of what they've been able to do.

Speaker 2 (13:17):
So now you're putting two.

Speaker 3 (13:19):
Guys in there and Ben Brown and Vederian Lowe that
you were trying to move on from, like you were
trying to upgrade from that were on.

Speaker 2 (13:26):
That line last year.

Speaker 3 (13:27):
Now you have three out of the five guys that
were playing for you last year and not going to
be playing if you count on WHENU as well.

Speaker 1 (13:34):
Right, and what at a different position, right, So like.

Speaker 3 (13:36):
It's it's just a big difference. Let's get to the good,
the bad, and the stuff that gets you beat, because
there is there's some good from this game. And I
don't want to be all doom and gloom. And I
told you, I hate I hate being that one.

Speaker 1 (13:47):
I hate being I.

Speaker 2 (13:48):
Hate being the negative guy. I hate it. No, I
don't like doing it.

Speaker 1 (13:51):
You don't like fun either, So what do you like?
I don't.

Speaker 3 (13:54):
I hate being the negative guy, especially at ten and two.
But I just feel like it's it's important, Like I
don't know, Like I said, I'm just I'm shocked that
everybody's just kind of whistling past the graveyard here with this.

Speaker 1 (14:07):
No, I it's it is fun, like they've One night,
there was a I'm trying to remember exactly the stat
they said on Monday Night Football. Find it. They they
either tied or broke it's the longest winning streak and
franchise history without Tom Brady at quarterback. Yeah that's significant. Yeah,
that's very sick. I don't remember which one it was.
Let me find it because I want to make sure

(14:28):
I the right one. But I heard them sound like
they said it late in the game because obviously they're
pumping up Patriots giants squeak, and I kind of sat up.
I was like, already, wow, Yeah, so no, it's absolutely significant.

Speaker 2 (14:40):
Okay, So let's get to the good, the bad, and
the stuff that gets to be from this win over
the Bengals. Still a win, still a win.

Speaker 3 (14:46):
Keep saying that I thought that in this game, starting
with the good Drake May stuff, and then we'll get
to the not so good Drake May stuff, but starting
with the good Drake May stuff.

Speaker 1 (14:56):
Also, by the way, Yeah, it's now the longest winning
streak in fra chi's history without a guy named Tom
Brady under center.

Speaker 3 (15:02):
Yeah, it's impressive. It's their longest win streak since twenty fifteen.
That was arguably the Wheels fell off late with injuries,
but that was arguably one of the best Patriots teams
of the twenty ten.

Speaker 1 (15:14):
The only so on Pro Football Reference, they have a
box for limit streak to a single season. Are we
counting that?

Speaker 2 (15:20):
Yes, so then it's only within one season like the
three to zero four, So.

Speaker 1 (15:24):
Okay, I just want to make sure. Yeah, so Brady
won obviously sixteen games in a row and O seven,
they won twelve in a row and O three, and
they won ten in a row and fifteen. So Brady's
only a three longer winning streaks in this Yeah. Yeah,
it's nuts.

Speaker 3 (15:38):
Yep, it is nuts, and it's it's something not to
take for granted. It really and I don't mean that,
you know, no, you're absolutely to sugarcoat it, but it
really isn't all right, So go into you know, the
specifics here with Drake May. I thought what stood out
to me in this game from Drake May didn't have
his best stuff like this is like you know when

(15:59):
Garrett Crouch has like, you know, an off night, but
still gets through six innings and is still gives you
a chance to.

Speaker 1 (16:05):
Win the game.

Speaker 3 (16:06):
Right, That's what Drake May did for the Patriots on Sunday.
He still made three high level great throws in this game.
The one to pop up the seam is one of
the best throws I've seen any quarterback make all year.
I don't think that's hyperbole that that throw is that good.
The back shoulders seem you know, a layered throw to
Austin Hooper beauty, the fade to Hollins on the sideline beauty.

(16:31):
You know, he still does this every single week even
when he doesn't play quite at his peak.

Speaker 2 (16:36):
You know, three or four throws where.

Speaker 3 (16:38):
Your jaw drops and you say, you know that is
that is why you know he's in the MVP conversation.
That's why everybody feels so great about where Drake May
is at. I still thought that those plays existed in
this game. I still was really happy with a lot
of the things that he did in this game, even
though it wasn't necessarily his best performance.

Speaker 1 (16:58):
Yeah, it's just to kind of blend the two, because
this one's kind of hard to do the good, the bad,
and stuff that gets you beat because so much of
it's intertwined. I thought what you saw from Drake Man
this game, I mean, he clearly wasn't right off the top,
like there was something he was not locked in. He
was not not we're usually is mentally that that the pick.
We've seen him hit Hunter Henry on that through a

(17:18):
number of times this year. He was able to settle in.
And what I thought the story this game was for
the Patriots offense was they were still able to produce
explosive plays at the rate that they typically have this year.
They're a handful of them in there. They had a
couple of Henry, they had the one to pop, they
had a couple two, or they had one of mac
Hollins down the sideline right yep, it was the in

(17:39):
between the explosives, like I found myself called them isolated
explosive plays, and Mike Vrabel kind of talked about this
after the game, that the coaches and the players need
to be able to bounce back from the good as
well as the bad. And it just felt like what's
made them so effective this year. Part of what's made
them so effective is they've stayed ahead his schedu Well,

(18:00):
something we talked to a lot about in the summer,
like for this offense to work, you've got to be
in second and six, you've got to be in third
and three, and you've got to stay ahead of that.
And look, they've bailed themselves out at times when they haven't,
but yeah, they've generally done a good job I think
of doing that. They didn't do that in this game.
In between the explosive plays. You didn't have the three
to four to five yard games just kind of carry
you down the field. It was a lot of nothing. Yeah,

(18:22):
but then they still hit the explosives that got them
the chunks when they needed them. So again, I hate
to jump ahead, but I like it's interesting when you
look at it in that sense from Drake May that
sometimes when a quarterback has an off day, the dink
and dunk is still there, but they don't have the
big play in them. This was the opposite. He's still
the big play in them. I think Henna in between.

(18:45):
But would you say that's more rare. I've definitely seen both.

Speaker 3 (18:48):
Not for a quarterback that plays like him, that's fair
like I think Josh Allen's that's fairy right, where like
with him, it's gonna be You're still gonna have some haymakers.
Like even in the Thursday night game against Houston where
the Bills kind of got their butts kicked, Josh Allen
still made some big plays. But it's the consistency throughout
the entire game that isn't there. It's you know, a

(19:09):
bad interception, it's you know, things like that in terms
of the consistency of the offense.

Speaker 2 (19:15):
And that was what you saw out of this game.

Speaker 3 (19:17):
And I want to get to some of those things
because I think, you know, one of the main things
that gave Drake May problems not you know, now we're
jumping ahead together one of the.

Speaker 1 (19:26):
Main things that gave Drake That's how you have to
talk about this game.

Speaker 3 (19:28):
Drake May and the Patriots offense as a whole problems
was blitzes you know, cover zero specifically, but also you
know some well timed like safety and nickel blitzes as well.
And I think that that kind of goes back to
where my smalleste concerns are about these injuries on the
offensive line. This was one of the first games all

(19:48):
season long where I saw a defense kind of take
apart their protections a little bit. And to me, I
don't know, you know, I'm not in the angles, you know,
meeting rooms and game plan meeting so I don't know
if they saw something that you know, they could manipulate
or you know, a tendency or something like that about

(20:11):
the way the Patriots pass protect and you know, load
up in terms of protection when it comes to blitzes.
I don't know exactly what they saw that teed them
off to this, but they generated more free runners, you know,
unblocked pressures in this game than any other game the
Patriots have had all season long. Like that's a stat
like that is accurate facts. Yeah, So that to me

(20:34):
is something that I think it's a combination of things. One,
it's like the old scarnekiism of like seeing the game
through the same set of eyes and having five guys
playing on a string. Well, when guys get hurt and
guys are in and out of the lineup, then it's
harder to do that, right, It's harder to have five
guys on the same string. Like the last third down
of the game, which is probably the play that Buggy

(20:54):
the most the Patriots last third down of the game,
the runner, you know, the runner comes through the B
gap over Ben Brown and Vederian Low. Well, Ben Brown
and Vaderian Low haven't been playing and they haven't been
playing a lot together.

Speaker 1 (21:09):
That's I meant to say this earlier. Sorry, we were
talking about you know, Ben Brown and Jared Wilson. How
maybe that's not that much of a gap, but like, yeah, understated.
I think honestly my biggest concern with the offensive line.
Sorry to cut off. I just want to make sure
that's like I said. I like Ben Brown is a
solid player. Yeah, And Vaderian Low I do think as
much as he struggled last year. We talked about sometimes

(21:31):
that the group can be better than the sum of
its parts. I think the reverse can be true too,
And if like the lines, if it's across the board
not good. It makes all the players look worse than
they actually are. They're in a better position out to
maybe help out Darien Low a little more. But the
point I was gonna make the chemistry might be the
bigger concern for me than the actual like schematic element though.

Speaker 3 (21:50):
Yeah, I mean they've done a great job. Look I
say it all the time. You're gonna have some one
on one losses in pass protection in the NFL, Like
those pass rushers are freaking beasts and they get paid
two and when you lining up every single week against
good players, like you're gonna get beat. Sometimes you can
live with those ones. It's the ones where you're you're
doomed from the snap right where the guys are coming

(22:12):
free and you know there's blitzers off the edge or
there's blitzers up the middle that are just unblocked.

Speaker 2 (22:17):
Like, those are the ones you can't have.

Speaker 3 (22:18):
If you're gonna have like one on one losses, it's
gonna happen die slowly, right, so that like the quarterback
should be able to still have a chance on those plays,
is my point. You know, usually you don't see a
ton of pressure in like under two and a half
seconds where the quarterback has zero chance to get rid
of the football. In this game, you saw a lot
of that, and and that was concerning. Now, I want

(22:41):
to stick with the goods and then I want to
break down some of that a little bit more. But
sticking with the goods, you know, we had Drake may
still have some high level throws in this game that
stood out a new career high for Hunter Henry one
hundred and fifteen receiving yards. Yeah, I thought he was
excellent in this game. You know, he got wide open
on the touchdown, but twenty eight yard touchdown. I thought
the thing that really got the Patriots offense going after

(23:05):
the pick six. They went to a lot of you know,
heavy personnel. They actually ran one snap out of twenty
two with the full back west Over and Henry and
Hooper on the field altogether, and then they ran a
lot of empty you know, empty formations, you know, running
back in the backfield. And they inverted the formation so
the outside players were Westover and Henderson and then the

(23:27):
inside players were the receivers. And so that's an inqu
You call that an inverted formation because you think that
you know, traditionally you would think it would be the
opposite right, that those guys would be in the backfield
or inside the formation and the other guys would be outside.
So they inverted the formation and all they did was
consistently get Hunter Henry on these Bengals linebackers in coverage.

(23:48):
And these Bengals linebackers we've talked to the tracks all
last week. That was the thing he kept pointing out
about this Bengals defense is, you know, rookie linebackers, inexperienced
linebackers that have struggled this year. And whether it was
you know, Barrett Carter, whoever it was, you know, Hunter
Henry has beat those guys like a drum. Like he
was running inns, crossers, slants, you know, things like that

(24:09):
into the middle of the field against that linebacker coverage
and he just had a day living inside there. I
thought Hooper was big too. I thought he made a
couple of big catches in this game as well. But
a lot of what I felt like kind of settled
them down. They got into twenty one, they played right
under center, they started running the ball, they got the
tight ends involved like that was kind of what got

(24:30):
the offense into this game and settled down a bit
after this slow start.

Speaker 1 (24:34):
Yeah, I think there's something to be said for you know,
Hunter Henry's had a quieter season this year statistically. I
don't want to say he's had a down season because
he hasn't. He's still been good. The volume's just not
there because the last few years he's kind of been
the only guy. Yeah, and now there's other You start
of Steph on Diggs, art pop Thuglis start kseh on booty,

(24:54):
throw to mac Hollins, who, by the way, continues to
make plays. Yeah, but wouldn't you know it, things get
a little tough off. What has Drake may do? He
goes right back to the security blanket, right back to
the guy he trusts, and it speaks to Hunter Henry
like he hasn't had a game like that this year,
but stayed ready when the moment came up. I think
the veterans, Henry and I want to give Steph Diggs
credit to the veterans carried them. Diggs did not have

(25:15):
a very He kind of had the opposite of Henry.
He did not have a very statistically productive game. Yeah,
but he had a very impactful game to play. I
go back to him. Mike Rabel singled this out in
his postgame press conference. They get backed up into first
and twenty, like kind of back under their own goalpost,
and he hits Henry on like an eight yard in
and it was going to be like a nice game.

(25:36):
It was gonna set them up with a second and manageable.
But Steph Diggs sets this great block and creates an
angle for Hunter Henry to run for the first down
like that kind of play. Thirty one year old receiver
has been in all pros, done everything that is doing
this league, steps up and sets that kind of block.
That's part of the reason this team is where they
is because they have guys willing to do that. So
not gonna be a lot of talk about Steph Diggs
after a game like that. He had two catches and

(25:56):
they were big catches. He had one big third down
con version late in the game. But Steph Diggs deserves
credit for the way he played in this game. And
you know, when you have a rough game like that,
it's a young team, you're gonna want to lean on
the veterans, and that's what they did. Henry Diggs, mac
Hollins like those guys came up big and helped get
him cross the finish line.

Speaker 3 (26:13):
On offense, we haven't really seen a ton of them,
you know, being behind Lee lately. I think that was
the first time they.

Speaker 1 (26:20):
Were being on behind Oh yeah, yeah, yeah, that was
the first time. They haven't been in that spot that much,
which is why I find it notable.

Speaker 3 (26:25):
I feel like that was the first time that they
were I think that it was since the Pittsburgh game.

Speaker 1 (26:29):
Well, they've trailed a lot because they keep giving up
these first drive touchdowns.

Speaker 2 (26:32):
Right, but they haven't been down double digits.

Speaker 1 (26:34):
They usually catch up pretty quickly.

Speaker 2 (26:36):
Yeah, so I to see that.

Speaker 3 (26:38):
You know, you get down ten to nothing on the road,
you throw a pick six, McDaniel's going back to under center,
full back in the backfield like that it's still that's
still it, right, Like that's still the let's level this.

Speaker 2 (26:51):
Thing off for Josh McDaniels.

Speaker 3 (26:53):
That that's still his his bag, Like that's still what
he's going to go to in those situations. And obviously
the tight ends are each part of that. The other
thing that I thought was, you know, really, uh good,
good sign. Good thing in this game from the offensive
perspective them We'll move over to the defense. They're gonna
need this now moving forward, obviously with the backups on

(27:13):
the left side, Morgan, Moses, Garrett Bradbury, Mike on wn Who.
I thought all three of these those guys are really
good in this game. I only had them allowing two
pressures combined among the three of them in the entire game.
On when who I thought was particularly good. I counted
eight plus blocks in the run game from those three guys.

(27:34):
They're the starters, right like, they're the guys that have
been the starters all year long. Their right side is
still intact, their center is still intact. So they're gonna
need those three guys to step up and play their
best football without Wilson and Campbell and and kind of
give them a steady side of the offensive line. You know,
if the left side gets you know, takes a little
bit of a step back. So I was encouraged. I

(27:55):
think on when Who was really starting to play a
lot better. Uh, he's kind of taken you know, He's
to turn it on here a little bit. I don't
know exactly why that is, but I thought he started
a little bit slow this season, and now that we're
getting into, you know, the later part of the season,
he's starting to really pick it up. He had an
awesome backside combination block on an outside zone run that

(28:16):
was a positive play where you know, he got two
guys and looked really good on the play. No pressure
is allowed in pass protection. So I think that he's
starting to pick it up a little bit. And you
can lean on that, and I think that one thing
that's interesting or you know, kind of confusing. I guess too,
like why don't they just run it behind Moses and
on Whney won the goal line? Like I don't really

(28:37):
understand it, like you have you have like seven hundred
and fifty pounds of beat right on that side of
the offensive line. I get like the in theory, like
maybe you want to run it, you know, up the
mill or to the left and then kind of cut
it back behind those guys instead of just going right
behind him. But when you have one yard to go,
like just turn the turn around, hand the ball off

(28:58):
and run it right down their throats behind two guys.
And I think on when who's probably, if we're being
you know, nice about it, three forty three fifty and
Moses is probably three thirty, right, you know, so we're
talking about two guys that are almost to combine seven
hundred pounds of beef on that side.

Speaker 1 (29:18):
I get not wanting to be predictable, but when you
have eight shots at it, right, you have to do
it every time. But maybe mixing it. Yeah, absolutely all right.

Speaker 3 (29:29):
Moving over to the defense on the goods, a couple
of goods on that side of the ball. Carlon Davis.
I thought this is probably his best game as a Patriot.

Speaker 1 (29:36):
I think that's pretty clear.

Speaker 3 (29:37):
Yeah, yeah, I mean the DPI was a tough call,
and you know you'd have to mention it, but but.

Speaker 1 (29:42):
You have to love it. And he said it after
the game. He responded like it made him bounce back,
which is the mentality you want.

Speaker 3 (29:48):
I thought he had four really high level coverage plays
in this game. Obviously the three pass breakups on the
final drive for the Bengals, but then on the pick
six on Marcus Jones'.

Speaker 2 (29:59):
Pick six, he has the coverage.

Speaker 3 (30:01):
On T Higgins on that play, which is where Flacco
and Flacco starts looking down the field, he wants to
go to T Higgins down the field, and Carlton Davis
smothered the route and was all over T Higgins and
so he had to come off it and come to
the check down late, and so I thought that Carlton
Davis was a huge part of making that pick six happen. Like,
if Carlton Davis doesn't cover te Higgins there as tightly

(30:23):
as he did, then maybe Flacco's throwing the ball to
Higgins on that play instead of throwing the ball in
the flat. So really good game I thought from Carlton
Davis really stepped up in this game. I think I
still have no real I know, he's kind of been
a little bit of a lightning rod. They paid him
a lot of money in the offseason. I've thought that
he's been pretty steady for most of the season. He

(30:45):
gives up a play here or there, it's gonna happen.
But I don't think that. I don't really have any
major gripes and haven't had any major gripes with Carlon Davis.

Speaker 1 (30:52):
And he's played.

Speaker 2 (30:53):
He played really well in this game.

Speaker 1 (30:54):
Yeah, No, I mean, has he like I thought he'd
maybe be a little better than he's been. But that
doesn't mean he's been bad. He's given you really good
you know. I think he's given you a really good
number two corner play. Yeah, maybe it's not the one A,
one B we were looking for, but he's still been,
you know, a legitimate cover corner and yeah, been waiting
for him to have a game like that. Glad he

(31:15):
had it. Maybe that kind of launches the second half.
I go back to, and this is an extreme example.
You remember Steph Gilmore's first five games in New England. Yes, brutal, Yeah,
and they got hurt in at Tampa game and came
back and was the best corner in football for a
year and a half. So and not that I'm saying
Carlton Davis is going to have this like wow dissension,
but I yeah, I he hasn't been exactly what I
thought he was. Really he was really good in this game,

(31:38):
especially down the stretch. I think you summed it up perfectly.

Speaker 3 (31:40):
If you had this expectation that they were going to
have this one A, one B, you know, two number
one corners kind of lineup with Carlton Davis, he probably
hasn't been that, but he's definitely been a solid number
two corner. You know, number two corners are not expected
to shut down their side of the field every single week.
That's what all pro corners like Christian Gonzalez are expected
to do so. I think that Carlton Davis has done

(32:02):
his job on the whole this season, and I don't
know why there's so much criticism towards him, honestly. Next
one up here on defense, both Klevon Chase On and
Christian Barmore were basically the Patriots disruption upfront. Like, those
two guys are the guys that were creating the most chaos.

Speaker 2 (32:21):
Seven total pressures.

Speaker 3 (32:22):
Barmore had a couple of run stuffs, Chason had the
pressure on the last play of the game on the
fourth down. You know he's locked a quarterback hit on
that play on the all out pressure. I thought those
two guys, you know, I was disappointed on the hole
with how the defensive line played in this game. But
those two guys continued to play well and stand out.

(32:42):
And Barmore was doing it with a ton of double
teams without Milton Williams as well. But if they were
basically the pass rush, those two players were basically it.

Speaker 1 (32:51):
Yeah, again, you could notice Milton Williams absence. I think
you notice in the game he didn't play just how
good he's been so.

Speaker 3 (33:00):
Ye, But those who get to that after it last
thing here on the good side.

Speaker 2 (33:04):
Uh, Kyle Williams kick returner.

Speaker 1 (33:06):
I like it. Finally saw it.

Speaker 2 (33:08):
I liked it.

Speaker 3 (33:09):
I think that this is a this is a role
for him moving forward. He had the thirty six yard return.
That's the Patriot's longest return since uh Antonio Gibson's touchdown
in Week two in Miami.

Speaker 2 (33:19):
So they it looked like he looked the part. You
can see the speed.

Speaker 3 (33:24):
Obviously, the play hits a lot faster than what it
did with fin chishm back there. I understand when they
had the injuries to create uh to Kishon Boody, that
they needed him on offense more. But now that all
the receivers are healthy, uh, this is key should be
your primary kickoff returner moving forward. I actually think he's
gonna be a little bit dynamic.

Speaker 1 (33:42):
Back there, and it keeps him involved and you get
something out of that unit. And yes, we've been talking
about this for weeks. I think I've been talking about
it since the training camp. Love that we got to
see it. Love that. I mean what I think doesn't
matter that hopefully the coaches liked it. I to me,
he should earn an other shot. I don't know. And
there's one more on the special teams the good How

(34:03):
about Andy? Yeah, Andy boorgallis four for four three kicks
over forty yards. That fifty one yard or at the
end of fifty one to fifty two? Was it at
the end of the game? Yeah, that was massive because
the way their defense was playing there, if the Bengals
it only needed to drive for a field goal or
if he misses it and the Bengals would have gotten
the ball right around the fifty right. I mean, that
was a massive kick. Kind of reminded me to the kick

(34:23):
at the end of the Miami game. Yeah, and he can.
He had that little bit of a bumpy start. He's
been excellent since week three. Very good. You're right.

Speaker 3 (34:31):
Uh, he had math favorite kicking there. By the way,
what's up math favorite? The field goal? Interesting because the
other game, what was the Giants Lions game? The Giants
had an opportunity to kick up three to go up six,
and there was a lot of talk in my my
nerd world about whether or not they should have kicked

(34:51):
or if they should have gone for it on four
It down out of the Patriots. I don't I don't
remember exactly what the down and distance was for the Giants.
The Patriots were in a fourth and seven, so that
that's a far fourth down. If it was fourth and one,
I think the math probably would have said go. But
fourth and seven is not a clear go by any means.
And so it actually favored field goal in that spot.

(35:12):
And you've seen this twice now down in Miami and
then obviously in Cincinnati, where being up six in that
spot instead of only being up three is a big difference.
Like that's the difference between over time or you know,
a touchdown winning the football game either way. But it's
a big difference to be in that spot. So I

(35:33):
thought that was that was an interesting sort of thing there, And.

Speaker 1 (35:38):
I want to add it too, just the element of it.
I don't think people realize this. So when you miss
a kick, the ball's not spotted at the yard line,
the ball was on the ball spotted where the kick
was missed. Yeah, so when you go back to that play,
that's a fifty two yard field goal. I gotta find
the exact yard lines.

Speaker 3 (35:56):
I don't have to do that, he was like on
the logo, for sure, it was Yeah, maybe the forty
eight three thirty three plus seventeen is fifty right, thirty
three plus yes, so oh no, but seven so forty yeah, yeah,
so the Bengals would have gotten the ball on the
forty yard line. You saw the kick McPherson hit before
the aft. It was an absolute tank.

Speaker 1 (36:16):
Sixty three yards. So yeah, they're what two first downs
away from tying that game, right if he misses that kick.
Whereas yeah, if you punt it, you might only net
seventeen yards or thirteen yards, but some people might say
with two minutes that thirteen yards is a big deal.
I'm not saying they should have punted. What I'm saying
is they clearly trust the kid. Yeah, Like, it's not
as simple as all right, we'll put you out there
to try and if you miss it, no harm nor

(36:37):
there is a massive risk if you miss that kick.
And same same situation in Miami. So they really do
trust him in that situation. Yeah, absolutely.

Speaker 3 (36:46):
I just really quickly aside, because I'm not gonna mention
this with with the bads or the stuff that gets
you beast. I'll just mentioned it now. I actually didn't
watching it back. I didn't really mind what they did
at the end of the half. The kid made a
sixty three yard field goal. I thought that the Higgins.

Speaker 1 (37:02):
I minded it. I didn't hate it.

Speaker 3 (37:04):
So they went they went with a seven defensive back
package and they went into prevent.

Speaker 1 (37:10):
They did.

Speaker 3 (37:11):
They went with a three man defensive line seven DB's.
The Higgins deep in was Jalen Hawkins was standing right
in the window, and somehow Higgins won the ball, like
I don't know how, but Higgins won the ball. The
play was covered, and Higgins made a play. He's a
good player, is a really good player, and he made

(37:33):
a play on the football and Hawkins kind of got
you boxed out there at the catch point a little bit.
So I don't really hate what they called in any
of those spots, Like, okay, you give up the twenty
one yard run on first down. You're kind of conceding
that there was like seventeen seconds or eighteen seconds left
in the half, so they're going to run the ball.

Speaker 2 (37:51):
You kind of let him run it there.

Speaker 3 (37:53):
And then they give up a chunk play to Higgins
where I thought that they had the right coverage and
they had the right idea, and then the guy gives
up it kicks a sixty three yard It was a
franchise record, Like, you're not gonna You're not expecting the
kicker to make a sixty three yard field goal in
that spot. So if they had given two chunks and
now the Bengals are kicking the field goal and it's
a fifty yard field goal, okay, now I'd probably get

(38:15):
on the defense. But you tip your cap when the
kicker makes a sixty three yard field goal.

Speaker 1 (38:19):
I'm sorry, there's probably a better way to execute that,
but I didn't think it was some like agree and
they'd probably tell you they could have execute it better,
but I regis massive mistake.

Speaker 3 (38:30):
Yeah, they could have executed the Higgins play better, no doubt. Right,
all right to the bats. So I mentioned this earlier.
Going back to the offense, the lack of answers versus
the Bengals blitz package was kind of shocking to me.
This is not typical of Josh McDaniels or Drake May
or this Patriots offense. So the numbers, Drake May was

(38:50):
four or twelve against the blitz with a sack, but
more specifically, he was zero for five against cover zero.
You know, zero completions against five zero blitzes, and really
none of them had a chance like he had zero
chance on any of the zeros like it was.

Speaker 2 (39:06):
It was really just, you know, it was free run
at the quarterback.

Speaker 3 (39:12):
The two plays in particular that I think stood out
to a lot, well three if you include the sack.
But I think the number one thing here first is
just a lot of this is on Drake May's plate.
And this was one smalleste concern I had about this
offense as a whole coming into the season was that

(39:32):
you have a second year quarterback that is setting protections
and supposed to read pre snap and you know, make
decisions of where the mic point is or where the
protection's going, and understanding where the blitz threats are and
the packages and studying their pressure package as much as
you're studying the It's a lot.

Speaker 2 (39:49):
It's a lot to put on a twenty three year
old kids plate.

Speaker 3 (39:52):
And I'm actually pretty surprised at how well they've done
it so far this season. And I'm pretty surprised that
it took this long for a defense to sort to
play some mind games with Drake May and get them
a couple of times, and these types of situations a
testament to McDaniels to May. But I also look at
this for other teams moving forward, especially Buffalo.

Speaker 1 (40:11):
Is this the blueprint that we've heard so much about it? Right?

Speaker 3 (40:15):
Is this is this going to start to be a
repeat you know, blueprint type of thing, because if the
Bengals were able to get some guys, you know, multiple
guys free to the quarterback. And I thought that a
lot of it was pre snap, a lot of it
was missing, you know, sliding protections and things like that.
So you know, the first one was on the very

(40:35):
first drive of the game and he puts reminder up
into the line of scrimmage over the overload side to
pick up the blitz, and then right before the snap,
the safety goes from over the right side to over
the left side, and then they overload the left side
instead of the right side, and the safety is just
unblocked over the left side. Then you know, later on
in the game they blitz the nickel and they have

(40:58):
a nickel blitz on that one. You know, they have
a cap defender, which means that behind the nickel behind
the slock corner, the safety is standing behind the slock corner,
which is what's called capped, which means that most likely
they're blitzing because the safety is going to replace the
nickel in coverage. So when the nickel blitz is the
slock corner blitz is, then the safety is going to

(41:19):
take Stefon Diggs and replace him in the coverage. So
for a quarterback, that's typically a tell that that's coming
from that side of the field when you see the
cap defender.

Speaker 2 (41:28):
And Drake made that.

Speaker 3 (41:29):
They didn't slide the protection that way, and I believe
it was Brown. At this point, Ben Brown is blocking nobody.
So you have you have Ben Brown and Will Campbell
blocking the same guy on the left side of the line,
and nobody's blocking the blitz. So that's to me, is
just strategic, right, It's just moving guys around. It's the

(41:50):
chest match before the ball is snap. And then of
course the last third down of the game, you know
they let somebody through the b gap unblocked and it's
another pressure. So there was a lot of that going
on in this game. The Bengals kind of took apart
their protections a little bit in a way that I
haven't seen happened to the Patriots yet this season. So
this is something that they definitely need to button up

(42:11):
and get fixed because teams are going to keep doing
it until they prove that they can block it.

Speaker 1 (42:15):
And the issue just compounds that they're going to have
to do it with a new group up front, right,
and that's going to make it that the communication that
side that much tougher. Yep. Absolutely.

Speaker 3 (42:24):
The other thing that was a little bit disappointing in
this game to me was the interior run defense, and
as a whole, just the pass rush and the disruption.
I think the number one word I would use is disruption.
They just weren't making a ton of plays on the
other side of the line of scrimmage in this game,
or at the line of scrimmage for that matter. So

(42:46):
the Bengals only got stuffed twice on runs in this game.
They had twelve successful runs to two stuffed runs the
entire game. I also charted the pressure rate before the
final drive and half or the final drive, So before
the Bengals final drives. In their first nine possessions of
this game, the Patriots only had Joe Flacco under pressure

(43:08):
on fourteen point eight percent of his dropbacks. Now that
skyrocketed on the last drive. It was fifty percent on
the Bengals, you know, game winning drive attempt. So that's
gonna push those numbers up for the entire game. But
to me, it's kind of fugazi. It's a little bit
inflated because it really came at the end of the
game where they're sending all out pressure and they're they're

(43:29):
heating Flacco up at that point. So the big stats
that stood out to me fourteen point eight pressure eight
if you take out the last drive of the game
for Cincinnati. They also allowed three yards per rush before
contact in this game. That was the second highest mark
in the NFL in Week twelve. The only team that

(43:51):
had it worse than the Patriots run defense. You want
to take a guess last week, This is an easy
one if you think about it again, the only team
that gave up more rushing yards before contact than the
Patriots this week in Week twelve was the New York
Giants right against Detroit. Okay, so the Giants right now
are historically bad run defense. That's not company you want

(44:14):
to be in because with the Giants.

Speaker 1 (44:15):
You've seen that chart. You know, I don't like the charts.
There's one chart where they had to explain the chart
to fit the Giants.

Speaker 3 (44:20):
And so you don't want to be part of that
chart with the Giants. So I just thought that they
were a little soft up the middle in this game. Defensively.
I didn't like seeing that. You know, they're gonna need
more from Dirden, from Gregory, from Farms. You know, maybe
Farmers active this week after being inactive in Cincinnati. They're
just gonna need more from that group. You know, Barmore

(44:42):
can't do it all by himself, and and Tongo will
hopefully come back healthy and he'll be available. But I
thought that that was something that really stood out in
this game. Just the lack of Milton Williams was so
obvious in this game, you know, the disruption.

Speaker 1 (44:57):
Let's start Tonga in there too, because he didn't play
a lot. And and again we talked about last week,
like they have the depth to fill in for Milton Williams,
and part of that was Tonga. Then you lose him too,
is very apparent they didn't have those guys.

Speaker 3 (45:08):
Yeah, absolutely, last thing here, and then we'll go on
to the stuff that gets you beat. I just don't
like seeing Christian Gonzalez get beat by Mitchell Tinsley.

Speaker 1 (45:17):
No, I don't look credit to Tinsley was a great release.
I don't know how much Gonzal studied him during the week,
but yeah, you don't want to see that.

Speaker 3 (45:23):
I mean, it's just it's not like something that I'm
going to kill him for. It's the first touchdown he's
given up all year, by the way, in coverage and
Mitchell Tinsley like some of the guys he's faced this year,
Drake London, you know t Higgins in this game for
most of it and you get beat by Tinsley. That
that was tough to watch. You don't like to see
that from your number one corner. Now to the stuff
that gets you beat. Let's talk about the pick six.

(45:45):
So I think that what's being under discussed with the
pick six was that this was like a trick formation
that they ran. It was kind of a trick play
that they ran in this game. On the pick six,
they only had four offensive linemen blocking for me, right,
they like faked a screen.

Speaker 2 (46:02):
Yeah.

Speaker 3 (46:02):
So they had Ben Brown, who was in the game
at this point. This was an eligible situation. He was
at left guard. He was the left guard they had,
you know the best way to say this, Hunter Henry
was playing left tackle on this play.

Speaker 1 (46:14):
They did the the who man yeah, you know, eligible
moved the formation.

Speaker 3 (46:18):
So Hunter Henry's playing left tackle. Ben Brown is out
on the perimeter with Trayvon Henderson offering a screen. I
don't know if he if the screen, if this was
just a decoy thing and they always wanted to throw
the seam to Henry, or if they were going to
throw the screen and May saw the that Henry flashed
up the seam and he just tried to take it.

(46:39):
I don't know, you know, I couldn't tell you, you know,
I'd have to ask. I don't know which one it was,
but it was a tricky formation that my guess is
that we won't see for a while because of how
it was. And it's open. It's there. You know, he's
gonna have to layer it in there, but it's in there.
And he just airmailed it, you know, he does air
mailed it. Sailed it and if you sail it over
the middle and this league, it's going back the other

(47:01):
way nine times out of ten.

Speaker 2 (47:02):
Right, So it's a combination of factors, you know.

Speaker 3 (47:06):
I think that, you know, the simplest way to put
it is he just he sailed the ball.

Speaker 2 (47:10):
He airmeld the throw.

Speaker 3 (47:12):
But I would also say that there was a little
bit of trickery on the play that kind of was
a unique formation, And I just don't know if they
needed that in this game, Like maybe if they had
practiced it more and they pulled it out in a
playoff game like it. You know, I always go back
to the twenty fourteen Ravens, you know, playoff game when
they were down by two scores and they needed to

(47:32):
pull something out of their butts.

Speaker 2 (47:33):
That was not this spot. So he throws the pick six.
Bad throw.

Speaker 3 (47:37):
Probably not the best formation or play to call in
that spot, especially backed up there like they were.

Speaker 1 (47:43):
And that was it.

Speaker 3 (47:44):
I mean, I don't really have anything else to add
I don't know if you have anything else to add about.

Speaker 2 (47:47):
It just wasn't a good throw.

Speaker 1 (47:49):
Maybe they were trying to set up they wanted to
throw the seams so they could come back and throw
that screen.

Speaker 3 (47:53):
Yeah later down the road. Who knows, sure can but
can't be throwing pick sixes. It's his first pick six
of his career. By the way, I should put that
out there so you know it doesn't happen all the
time to Drake May.

Speaker 2 (48:04):
It's not like a problem a repeat.

Speaker 1 (48:05):
Problem, all right, the last thing here.

Speaker 3 (48:08):
And then we're before we take the break, we got
we gotta break down whatever the heck happened on the
goal line, Like, yes, so this was this was just
it was kind of crazy to watch it back because
of how many opportunities they had to score and they
still couldn't score. Like they had at least four or

(48:29):
five plays in the first sequence, but that should have
been touchdowns. So I don't necessarily panic about it because
I think this was all execution.

Speaker 2 (48:36):
I really do. I don't think this was anything the
Bengals did.

Speaker 3 (48:40):
I counted at least four plays that were there for
touchdowns that for some reason did not end up in
touchdowns in this game. On the goal line, so you
had the four yard little swing pass to Travon Henderson.
I can't remember if it was first or second down,
but I said this yesterday. I would like to see
Travon Henderson Marstown make the guy miss there and get

(49:01):
into the end zone like you're one on one in
space with a linebacker, your scap back, your speedback, like
make a cut and get upfield and get in the
end zone. Right, you have space out there, make a
play like maybe Drake may could have put the ball
on him a little bit faster to help him, but
I still think he had time to kind of like
break down, you know, size the guy up and make
a little shimmy and get into the end zone. You'd

(49:22):
like to see your you know, explosive rookie running back
score on that little swing pass. Then the next one,
Drake May is coming out from underneath center. They run
a little play action play. Hunter Henry's open on the
corner route. They bite, they got it, and Drake May
gets tripped, gets stepped on whatever you want to call it,
coming from underneath center, stumbles out and he can't get

(49:45):
the ball out on time. So then that play gets
wiped out. Then you get the Hunter Henry touchdown that
got nullified by the offensive pass interference. So now I'm
at three of plays that I think they could have
scored on, and then you get to the fourth down
play where I think Drake May had an r PO
and probably made the wrong read on the r PO
and it probably should have been a touchdown to Hunter

(50:06):
Henry in the flat. So they ran I think it
was what eight plays from inside the five yard line.
I think they ran, yeah, six or seven fix from
one six from the one, and I just rattled off
four different plays that were there for touchdowns that they
didn't score on. Right, So to me, that's an execution problem, right, Like,
that's not a tip the cap to the Bengals.

Speaker 2 (50:27):
They got one on you.

Speaker 1 (50:28):
I mean it's a little bit of both. But yeah, no,
you get eight tries and they kept getting back down,
Like they get the OPI, they get pushed out to
the eleven. Next play, boom, they're back down on the one.
That nice little shovel pass Hunter Henry. So yeah, you
got you just got to score there. You got to
score and they got to figure something out with the
quarterback sneak because they've been a good quarterback sneak tam. Yeah.

Speaker 3 (50:48):
So then the second one, you know, the second thing
they get pushed back, you know, they get Hunter Henry
and then.

Speaker 1 (50:56):
Oh no, that was the first drive that they got.
The second one was just three and then they came.

Speaker 3 (51:00):
Yeah, so I think they only got down inside the
one or inside the five on second down. I think
they got down there on first down, and then they
had second and third down from the one, right, and
they got stuffed on second down. They actually gained a
few yards on second down, but Henderson literally got it
to like the they kept getting tackled at the one
yard Yeah, they literally got tackled at like the half

(51:20):
yard line. I don't even think it was just the
one and then they obviously have the sneak and then
were able to elected the kick on fourth down, so
you know, not not good.

Speaker 1 (51:29):
Well, it's the right decision to kick there though.

Speaker 2 (51:31):
I think so too, even though the math would.

Speaker 1 (51:33):
Have gone, well, does the math factoring you just got
stopped eight times earlier in the game, and you might
And this is this is why it feeling.

Speaker 3 (51:41):
This is why Rabel and Stretcher are such a good combination,
because Rabel's got enough of the feel and stretches the MAK.

Speaker 1 (51:47):
So this is why you got why it works. Because
this is my whole thing about Dan Campbell's going. I
don't want to I don't want to do the rail
against the analytics thing. But this is where to your point,
I think this is why they've had success because they
manage it. They don't let it either be all end
all and it's hey, yeah, the math says go, but
look at what happened earlier in the game. We need
to leave with points here. Yeah they did that.

Speaker 3 (52:07):
Yep, absolutely, I was perfectly fine with that.

Speaker 2 (52:10):
But it just wasn't going well down there, right.

Speaker 3 (52:12):
As Rabel said on Monday, you're gonna you're not gonna
win a lot of games if you can't score from
inside the five yard right. And I think the bigger
thing you know to me is you know along those lines,
I'm sorry, but I'm gonna run it in from the
one kind of guy. If you can't get a yard
in this league on the goal line to run it
in on three or four tries like, then you have problems.

Speaker 2 (52:35):
You have problems up front.

Speaker 1 (52:36):
And you.

Speaker 3 (52:38):
Said because I think a lot of people sorry to
cut off, but I think a lot of people want
the creativity, right.

Speaker 2 (52:42):
They want maybe you know, they want bootleg.

Speaker 3 (52:44):
May or they want a motion, or they want to
bubble or like something creative right in that spot that
goes beyond just we're gonna line up in the eye
and we're gonna run it down your throats. To me,
the best teams can line up in the eye and
run it down your throats when you need all the
bells and whistles to get it in down there. I
don't think you're all that great.

Speaker 1 (53:03):
This is where they missed having to fall back. I'll
just add to that. I don't love the shotgun run
on the goal line unless it's that direct snap play
they've run, yeah, in playoff games to Kevin Falk and
James White over the years. A little surprised they didn't
go to that. Like there's two McDaniel staples down there,
if you want to get creative, like you said, the
bells and whistles, there's the direct snap for the running back,
which they didn't do right. And then are you surprised

(53:24):
they didn't go back to the return route at any
point after Booty got held a little bit. I mean
maybe because he loves that play down there, but it also.

Speaker 3 (53:32):
Like it wasn't even really that open, uh, you know,
because he got a help. I know, but I don't
love that on fourth down. I didn't love that call.
That was the one call I didn't really like because
it's the reason why I don't really like it on
fourth down is because it's a one read throw.

Speaker 2 (53:45):
So like, if that's not going back.

Speaker 1 (53:47):
To any point, I mean, they had four more plays after.

Speaker 3 (53:49):
That, Yeah, they could have, you know that. I I
just want to you got to be able to block
a yard. And Rabel's whole big thing is, you know,
finish with your guy in the end zone like that.
That's his like rallying cry. That's his like coaching parlance,
and like that to me is the bit is the
end all be all we can talk about, you know,
all these bells and whistles, all these creative emotions or

(54:12):
return routes or boot legs or whatever. When you need
a yard, can you get a yard?

Speaker 4 (54:17):
Right?

Speaker 3 (54:18):
And they're they're run blocking right now has not been
good enough in short yardage.

Speaker 2 (54:21):
They need to improve there.

Speaker 3 (54:23):
And I'd also put a little bit on the running
backs like Ramondra Stevenson, you're two hundred and twenty seven pounds,
like lower your shoulder and get into the end zone,
you know, like run through the guy's face and get
into the end zone. And I think, you know, it
is frustrating to me a little bit to watch, you know,
these running backs get like stood up on the half
yard line, like you know, have a little push right,

(54:43):
get your shoulder pads down.

Speaker 2 (54:45):
And get in the end zone.

Speaker 3 (54:47):
So as much as that you can harp on the blocking,
and the blocking is a big part of it. I
think that's a part of it too. Now they didn't
tongue it down there. I think that's that's a big miss. Yeah,
that that's a big element of it as well. All right,
So that's good to batten and stuff that gets you beat.
We're gonna take a break and when we come back,
we'll do a little Giants preview. We'll take your calls
and emails and we'll open the show up from there.

(55:08):
We'll see you guys in a few seconds.

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Thank you to Aaron's for the swag I much appreciated,
really quickly before we get into the nitty gritty again,
because I feel like that was a very dense Yes,
it was a very hour and I need to loosen

(58:13):
it up a little bit.

Speaker 2 (58:14):
So what the heck is this hard count thing?

Speaker 1 (58:16):
So this is like, can you tell me this is
like a new trend online. I didn't think you're gonna
want to do this.

Speaker 2 (58:21):
I do because I just want to make fun of it.

Speaker 1 (58:23):
So there's like these this goofy thing online where where
guys are out and there hanging out and you just
you're out with the poise hit the hard count. And
there's like videos on YouTube of people trying to get
other people to jump or like there's this one account
where they line up in front of like an ananimate object.
There's one of a guy trying to get like a
pickup truck to jump off sides or a Walmart. And
so it came up because we were talking about the

(58:44):
giants and I don't know if you saw Cam Scattapo
the other night trying to get his chat to jump
off sidees like the chat that was watching his lives.
Cam Scattaboy's gotta worry about it, and he started he
started hitting the hard count. I've texted you about the
hard count. I think you jumped. I texted you a
hard count and you say you didn't jump, but I
think you jumped. I think I think the real reason
you hate this is because you don't have a good

(59:05):
hard count. And you know, the real reason why I
hate this is because you people are so corny because
it's fun.

Speaker 3 (59:12):
Just relax, like, my goodness, let's her hard count. No,
I'm not hard counting. There's no no, I'm not doing it.
And this is just like this all bothers me. Like
everything you just said bothered me, Like the hard count thing,
like what are we twelve years old?

Speaker 2 (59:28):
It's like doing like in middle.

Speaker 3 (59:29):
School, okay, and we're not at football practice. You don't
play football.

Speaker 1 (59:33):
I know.

Speaker 2 (59:33):
I'm sorry. I know you all want to be in
the NFL.

Speaker 1 (59:36):
You're not.

Speaker 3 (59:37):
Okay, I'm not You're not. No one is in this situation.
The hard count is lame. Please stop doing it. Also,
the second thing I would say about this is just
like I just can't believe, like you know, the whole culture,
like you just when you're out with the boys and
you know you just got a hard count, like.

Speaker 1 (59:56):
What like a pillow truck to jump off side? Come on,
it doesn't really work without this. It's horrible.

Speaker 2 (01:00:02):
That's Horrible's your hard count?

Speaker 1 (01:00:03):
No? Absolutely, not.

Speaker 2 (01:00:05):
All right, that's as much fun as I'm allowed to have.
That was that was two minutes of fun. It was
I don't.

Speaker 1 (01:00:10):
I just don't lot of fun. Yeah, I enjoy those videos.

Speaker 2 (01:00:13):
I think my side on this right like this is,
this is lame, like this.

Speaker 5 (01:00:17):
Is I'm sweets man. I don't take sides like this.

Speaker 1 (01:00:20):
I just you. You couldn't get anybody to jump off
sides give a week hard count. I think that's the problem.

Speaker 3 (01:00:27):
And that's like I'm supposed to be like humiliated by that,
like you clearly are.

Speaker 1 (01:00:32):
Because you won't embrace this this fun thing that people do.

Speaker 2 (01:00:34):
It's not because it's it's not fun. I don't understand
how what's fun about it? Like this is unbelievable in
a hard count? All right, let's get to the phones.
These guys have been waiting on hold for a while.

Speaker 1 (01:00:44):
Or are you afraid you would jump?

Speaker 4 (01:00:45):
Is that?

Speaker 1 (01:00:45):
Or you're not disciplined? What you're gonna get? You're afraid
you jump off sides?

Speaker 2 (01:00:50):
No, I'm not afraid. Do you do you think I
would jump off sides?

Speaker 3 (01:00:54):
I listen, I never jumped off sides, never once in
my life because I was too slow to jump off side,
So that's what it wouldn't matter. Nate is in Connecticut.
What's up, Nate?

Speaker 4 (01:01:05):
Hey, guys, can you get through?

Speaker 1 (01:01:06):
Well, yeah, we got you all right.

Speaker 9 (01:01:09):
I got a couple of.

Speaker 4 (01:01:10):
Thoughts for you guys. First off, you know, the connection
between May and Campbell, their chemistry this season on and
off the field has been like unmatched to probably any
quarterback left tackle duo in the league. Then to have
Campbell gone, first, I guess it's not season endings. That's good,
So he'll probably be gone for some weeks, but it's

(01:01:32):
definitely gonna be definitely going to take a toll on May.

Speaker 9 (01:01:35):
So it could be hard to.

Speaker 4 (01:01:38):
Get some stuff going in the offense. So I think
could be a good idea to bring back Marcus Jones
on the offense. You know, when he was on the offense,
he was able to get some stuff going and I
really like that. And you know, if the Darian Lowe
and Ben Brown are going to be on the line,

(01:02:00):
might be a little hard to get some stuff going
that they were able to get going earlier in the season.
And yeah, uh, And then second off, you know, Evan,
we all we all want to hear it. Give us
your hard count.

Speaker 1 (01:02:14):
Nope, thanks Nate. The people want it.

Speaker 3 (01:02:17):
But Nate, Nate, I can understand these these grown men
that are doing this in like the middle. He's I know,
he's not.

Speaker 1 (01:02:27):
Somebody's got to call in in hard count.

Speaker 2 (01:02:29):
Wasn't a knock on, Nate.

Speaker 1 (01:02:30):
I yeah, they're gonna see it coming. Now, you're gonna
see it coming, but we need somebody call it in
hardcount to see if you jump. I don't think Marcus
Jones on offense helps a lot of what's wrong right now.

Speaker 3 (01:02:41):
I could see what he's saying, like if you get
him in the screen game and things like that, you know,
with a bad offensive.

Speaker 1 (01:02:46):
Yeah, but I'm not saying it hurt. But I don't.

Speaker 2 (01:02:48):
I think he's got a lot on his place.

Speaker 1 (01:02:50):
He's right, he's very important them defensively and in the
punt return game on special teams. You should be able
to whatever you were gonna do with Marcus Jones, you
should be able to do with Pop Douglas.

Speaker 2 (01:02:59):
Yeah.

Speaker 3 (01:03:00):
So I I hear Nate though, and I said it
earlier in the show.

Speaker 2 (01:03:05):
I think the big thing about this.

Speaker 3 (01:03:07):
Moving forward, I think what you're going to see a
lot of is those max protect play actions. You know,
let's get under center, Let's run the football, let's play.

Speaker 2 (01:03:16):
Action off the run.

Speaker 3 (01:03:17):
I don't I don't think that Vederian Lowe Darien low
is probably a downgrade in both pass pro and run
block and compared to Will Campbell, Ben Brown might be
a little bit of a better run blocker than Jared Wilson,
just because he's a little nastier. Like Jared Wilson's a
very athletic, very graceful player. Ben Brown I think might
have a little bit more power, a little bit more SNAr,

(01:03:40):
a little bit more size for sure, just from a
measurable standpoint. So I think you get under center, you
run the football, and then when you play action, you
know you can leave seven guys in. You know you
can leave you know a go six to zero line,
which I think they might do in this game against
the Giants to help out against you know, Burns and
Carter on the edge.

Speaker 1 (01:04:00):
You know, you go six o line.

Speaker 3 (01:04:01):
Now you put two olignement on one on one of
those guys, you know, things like that, and then that's
how you're going to try to push the ball down
the field. Once you get into the drop back game
and you get into shotgun, you do have the advantage
obviously of me being able to move around, which is
which is helpful. But when you talk about like their
base early down offense, I think you're going to see
a lot of two three man route concepts with hard

(01:04:24):
play action underneath center. Maybe move the pocket a little
bit more than they have been lately, and I think
that's how they're going to try to piece this whole
thing together.

Speaker 1 (01:04:32):
Ben is in Philly.

Speaker 2 (01:04:33):
What's up, Ben?

Speaker 1 (01:04:38):
Hello? Hey, what's up?

Speaker 9 (01:04:39):
Ben?

Speaker 10 (01:04:41):
Hey? Just kind of a question for you guys, kind
of leaning towards special teams after that gaming Miami SCE
and you know, Antario Gibson and understand go off. I
don't know, I feeling a little bit disappointed. That might
not be the right word, just with a hund return unit.

(01:05:01):
Just wondering what you guys are kind of seeing, you know,
is that we're not getting enough defenders on their gunners
on the outside or they're just really popping them up
so Jones can't get a speak going. And I'll take
that off there.

Speaker 4 (01:05:15):
Thanks.

Speaker 1 (01:05:16):
Yeah, it's a good question.

Speaker 3 (01:05:17):
I mean they haven't They had the big game against
Carolina early in the year at the two punt returns
and I don't know if it's been as dynamic now.
Marcus Jones is one of the best punt returners in
football and everybody knows it.

Speaker 1 (01:05:28):
He's fifth in yards per return.

Speaker 3 (01:05:30):
Yeah, so that's probably an element of it as well.
But I, like I said earlier in the show, and
I think you're in agreement, I'm looking forward to seeing
Kyle Williams return more more kickoffs. I think that's gonna
ye remake that play dynamic like it was when they
had Gibson and Henderson back there to start the year.
I think that that could go a long way of
trying to get some hidden yards on special teams. Also,

(01:05:52):
big time knock on wood. When I say this, there's
like a it's an epidemic, right, That's what it's called,
when it's like a big thing that's happening. Widespread epidemic, epidemic, epidemic, epidemic,
Like I'm just saying the right word, like, yeah, like pandemic.
Yeah right, Yeah, there's one of those going on with

(01:06:12):
block kicks in the NFL this year, and knock done
with the Patriots have not had a blocked kick punt
or fields talked about.

Speaker 1 (01:06:20):
I think it's something they're very, very aware. Well, it's like,
I think it's happening every week, So every week. There's
at least part of the reason it's happening. The kickers
are so much better. Teams are kicking longer and longer
field goals. When you kick a long field goal, their
trajectory is lower, so it's easier to block. So the
rise in block kicks in part. It's not all of it.
There's been some shorter kicks a block too, Yeah, but

(01:06:41):
part of it has been teams are attempting longer kicks,
which are easier to block. That's epidemic epidemic. So an
epidemic is it's technically different than a pandemic, but they
mean similar things.

Speaker 3 (01:06:52):
Okay, all right, close enough, get into some of these emails.
This one, how you like this and this one from Justin.

Speaker 1 (01:07:01):
An epidemic is when a disease spreads in a specific area.
A pandemic is across multiple Okay.

Speaker 2 (01:07:07):
Well, this is very specific to a lot of field
goals getting blocked.

Speaker 1 (01:07:11):
Well, no, I think it might be because an epidemic
goal is only a couple teams of panstrick point, it's
the whole league.

Speaker 2 (01:07:18):
Yeah, it's it's been like crazy this year.

Speaker 3 (01:07:22):
Subject line to this email outs Evan's alerted to fun
which is something that you have said about me for
probably our entire friendship. Evan must have called the fun
police the way he's beating up on the hard count trend.
Come on and cut loose and have some fun. Saying
that I called the fun police is also, you know,

(01:07:44):
very corny.

Speaker 1 (01:07:45):
But here, Actually, if you got in here and you
got like Paul and Fred to try do the hard.

Speaker 3 (01:07:50):
Count, I feel like that's something Fred would do, because
Fred's all for the bid to do it.

Speaker 1 (01:07:54):
That's what I'm saying. Hard count. Well, this is like
the first I'm hearing of the hard count. What is
the hard count? It's when the quarterback goes the line
and gives a bunch of dummy signals try to get
the other team to jump off sides.

Speaker 3 (01:08:07):
Aaron Rodgers is probably the best hard Aaron Rodgers is
in the history of the league.

Speaker 2 (01:08:10):
Gotcha okay, okay?

Speaker 3 (01:08:12):
He gives a little hut hut, and then they all
see that was a weak. Well, I'm not gonna do
it like I'm doing it now. As a way to
explain it to that might be your hard count.

Speaker 1 (01:08:25):
We're not doing this. I'm gonna get you to do it.
I'm gonna get you to do it. Okay.

Speaker 3 (01:08:29):
A couple of questions about left tackle in the chat.
Here in the emails, I should say, uh, the guy
they got from Cleveland. I'm assuming he's talking about Munford
or Marcus Bryant. If Vederian Lowe struggles. So Marcus Brian's
an interesting one because he played left tackle in college,
played left tackle last year at Missouri with Membu on
the right side, Are you thinking at all that? I

(01:08:52):
still think it's gonna be low But I guess the
question is is like, how short of a leash does
low have?

Speaker 1 (01:08:58):
Yeah? I think short. Since they have an extra will
they kind of have an extra day to get ready
for this game? I guess they're probably they're not gonna
practice on Thursday, right, They're off on Thursday.

Speaker 2 (01:09:06):
Assume no, it's Wednesday, Friday, Saturday this.

Speaker 1 (01:09:07):
So because of Thanksgiving? Yeah, I mean I think a
relatively quick, quick pull. Now, whether it's Mumford or Bryant
would be the question. Yeah, because remember Mumford was here
yep for a couple of weeks early in the season,
so he may have the playbook, he should have the
playbook down a little bit. And was he working at
left tackle a right tackle when he was here. We

(01:09:28):
don't know. Like if they just feel like he's more
ready to step into left tackle specifically, and he's a
true swing tackle, then maybe they give it to him.
But I don't think they're gonna score around with Drake
May's blindside. I don't now they're gonna give low help.
I don't think they're gonna hang them out to dry.
But if it's not working, I do think they'd make
a change.

Speaker 2 (01:09:45):
Yeah, I agree with that. I think it's gonna be
a couple games.

Speaker 1 (01:09:48):
So and so.

Speaker 2 (01:09:49):
Diana Russini, I guess has a report on Will Campbell.

Speaker 1 (01:09:53):
That's said it's at least four weeks. So the thing
I'd say about Bryant too, that people really want to
see Brian. Look, I get it, you want to see
what he can do. Like, they drafted this kid, and
let's let's find out. It's see how many he didn't
take a lot of reps at left tackle in the summer,
did he, Marcus.

Speaker 3 (01:10:10):
Bryant, Yeah, a little bit, but not a lot. And
they've kind of been working him as the right tackle right.

Speaker 1 (01:10:15):
That's I wonder how much work he's gotten on the
left side. There was something I was thinking where he's
like Low's been there, he probably hasn't had a ton
of time over there. So even if they want to
go to him, and they'll probably started this week because
he's all right. If if Low's you bet you're now
you're starting left tackle, right, Bryan's probably your backup. Yeah,
it'll be so he's going to get and then maybe

(01:10:36):
it's Kane Wallace at right tackle or that's where Mumford is.
I don't know, but you know, it's probably going to
be a little bit of a ramp up to get
him ready to go in there if you need him.
I wonder it could.

Speaker 3 (01:10:47):
It's been pretty clear from the jump, and I said
this yesterday on you that I do think that Bryant's
play style, body type in the McDaniel system fits more
the right side on the left side. But I do
wonder also, you know kind of related. You know, Morgan
Moses is thirty four years old.

Speaker 1 (01:11:06):
I think best case.

Speaker 3 (01:11:07):
Scenario when you draft a guy in the seventh round,
if he's if he's a solid swing tackle, if he's
a solid third tackle, Adrian Waddall.

Speaker 2 (01:11:14):
You made a good draft pick.

Speaker 3 (01:11:16):
Asking him to be like the air to Morgan Moses
is probably pretty hefty, you know, pretty high bar, but
still like that's the spot. You know, Campbell's going to
be at left tackle for the next ten years, you know, right,
So that's the spot that you look at that maybe
there could be an opening down the line. So a
combination of you know, getting him maybe as seeing him,

(01:11:36):
you know, work behind Moses, Like could he be the
right tackle of the future. We know Campbell's going to
be over there on left side, so I think that
he's probably worked mostly at right tackle in practice, but
he has played left tackle a lot in college.

Speaker 1 (01:11:50):
So Marcus Bryant thirty four and five eighths cinch arms,
he's a big dude. He's like six'. Eight, yeah, yeah
he's a big. Boy the dear low thirty five and
a half loong.

Speaker 3 (01:12:00):
Arms maybe that'll help him. Out, well we were told
that that that's the only thing that. Matters do you
want to take a little bit of a victory wrap
here with?

Speaker 1 (01:12:09):
Something what you?

Speaker 3 (01:12:10):
KNOW i love a good victory and THEN i and
THEN i have a real QUESTION i want to ask
after this from the. Emails this is From tom And,
maine just wondering if this was just a fever DREAM
i had or were there are actually people In New
england wishing we HAD jj McCarthy Over. Drake look At,
alex look at how happy is THAT i brought this,
Up Drake Drake May may at the beginning of the.

Speaker 2 (01:12:31):
Season, nope you did not.

Speaker 1 (01:12:33):
Dream.

Speaker 3 (01:12:34):
Tom i'm not going to call out. Names SOMETIMES i,
do But i'm not going. To i'm going to take
the high.

Speaker 2 (01:12:39):
Road but it's been pretty rough FOR jj. McCarthy a
it's BEEN i feel for the.

Speaker 1 (01:12:45):
KID i don't want to like take a victory lap
on a twenty one year. Old it's going through. It
it's going through. IT i mean he's like it's.

Speaker 2 (01:12:51):
Football it's not like you're like, Victory like he's not
going through. It, well, no he's.

Speaker 1 (01:12:54):
Concussion, okay, fine but you know What i'm, Saying, like
it's not like you're not it's it's just wild when
you look at and when he got, Drafted i'd said
at the, time like that's a pretty good spot for
him to go and if he's gonna succeed Anywhere between
O'Connell and, NOW i know their offensive line's been banged,
up but that offensive line And Justin jefferson and, like

(01:13:15):
it's it's just a lot of what what we talked
about leading into the, draft and maybe he figures it
out down the. Road he's very, young and we've seen
guys have this kind of career. Resurgence this is the
new it thing in THE. Nfl The Baker, mayfields The Sam,
darnolds who The vikings moved on, from The Daniel, joneses
who The vikings moved on. From, no IF i really
wanted to take a victory, lap i'd play the clip
of me On Felgrin maz saying THAT jj McCarthy Is

(01:13:37):
Zach wilson waiting to. Happen BUT i won't do, that not.
YET i am. EXCITED i am excited to See Max.
BROSMER i do kind of Like Max. BROSMER i liked
him a little bit in the. Draft, NO i liked
him as like a you, know potential. Backup, now the
last TIME i said this about a guy Was bailey's,
appy and that turned into whole. Thing Could Max Brosber bailey's?
APPY jj, McCarthy i don't. KNOW i liked him in the.

(01:13:58):
DRAFT i liked him as kind of a project backup.
Quarterback he obviously, played he played. Well we saw him
against The patriots in the. Preseason, yeah that was somebody
we were talking about when we were wondering About Josh,
dobbs if they need another, backup you, know if he got,
cut if he'd be an. Option BUT i do like,
UH i do Like. Brosmer i'm interested to see What
brosma is gonna. Do SO i think the biggest hell

(01:14:20):
he's gonna Be Tom. Brady but, RIGHT i haven't a full.

Speaker 3 (01:14:23):
DISCLOSURE i have, not you, know, actually FOR i wouldn't
have any reason. TO i haven't watched or you, know
STUDY jj McCarthy on film at. All but the things
That i've seen or that some of the cut ups
and some of what people are saying that do Study
vikings tape are saying is, that you, know he's having
a lot of trouble reading coverage and specifically reading. Leverage
you know a lot of, uh you, know we talk

(01:14:45):
about coverages like cover, One cover, two cover, three but
a lot of reading coverage from a quarterback perspective is
just reading the body positioning of the. Defender, Right so
the defender is sitting, inside then the route's going to break,
outside and you should know with anticipation that that's going to,
happen and you're going to have an open area of the.

Speaker 2 (01:15:03):
Field you, know it's called reading.

Speaker 3 (01:15:05):
Leverage you know the defender is sitting outside the route
and you know that the receiver is gonna run a,
slant then, you in, theory should have an easy throw
there away from the defender's. Leverage so when you watch
McCarthy a lot on, tape you know he doesn't really
see those leverage opportunities as quickly as he, should and
so that leads to throws that shouldn't really be tight

(01:15:26):
window throws becoming tight window Throw it's.

Speaker 1 (01:15:28):
That and then to, me everything's a fastball and people
talk about his arm.

Speaker 3 (01:15:33):
Strengthening these go hand in hand BECAUSE i don't think
he's throwing with. Anticipation so what he's trying to do
is he's trying to make up for the lack of
anticipation with just throwing the ball as hard as he.

Speaker 1 (01:15:44):
Can, yeah he doesn't really have a touch, throw and,
look these are things that can be, coached that can be. Fixed,
again he's a young guy and maybe he figures it,
out it's probably gonna have to be outside Of minnesota
at this. Point but, oh you're.

Speaker 2 (01:15:55):
Already you're already having The vikings move.

Speaker 1 (01:15:57):
On we're already. There it's a you're going to need a.
Quarterback SO i don't, know but, LIKE i don't think
O'Connell's gonna if he can't get it. DONE i don't
think O'Connell's gonna waste. TIME i don't think O'Connell doesn't
seem like the kind of coach that would do the,
obligatory mean to give them another year because you drafted.
Me you also memories going in a year.

Speaker 3 (01:16:15):
Three O'Connell needs needs his Brock party because this is
this is what happened With Trey lance and Brock.

Speaker 1 (01:16:21):
Party is it Mac?

Speaker 3 (01:16:22):
JONES i don't, know but he just needs his no
like it might, be but he doesn't have. That he
doesn't Have Black purty.

Speaker 1 (01:16:29):
Yet, look he Needs maybe he could Get brocket if
The niners really Like Mac. Jones he needs that, guy
and then that's one of The niners quarterbacks is on
The vikings next year would be pretty.

Speaker 3 (01:16:40):
High, yeah all, right here comes another question from DON
i want to talk a little BIT afc playoff picture
and before we preview The giants, Game so right, now you,
know how do you see the basically simple, question how
do you see THE afc seating shaking? Out he thinks
The patriots win in The east is almost a. Lock
it isn't not mathematically over by any. Means it's getting

(01:17:02):
pretty close in terms of The patriots.

Speaker 1 (01:17:04):
When they win this. Week if The patriots beat The, giants.

Speaker 2 (01:17:08):
They could clinch the division against both no.

Speaker 1 (01:17:10):
Matter What buffalo does against The. Steelers that's a hat
AND t shirt. Game, yes, okay? Yes is? It do
they can they clinch the playoffs this? Week or is
it one and the? SAME i haven't seen any eleven
wins they would. CLINCH i haven't seen any clinching. Scenarios
it feels like we're getting, there. Though come out On. Tuesdays,
yeah SO i.

Speaker 2 (01:17:30):
DIDN'T i didn't see. Those i'm starting to see.

Speaker 1 (01:17:32):
Teams what's the reverse of a. Clinch we're starting to
see teams.

Speaker 3 (01:17:35):
Eliminated, yeah The giants are, eliminated and THE i think
The giants are eliminated and it's just The.

Speaker 1 (01:17:41):
Giants how are The titans not? Eliminated they're one in
ten because their division leader is how are they not?
Eliminated i'm on THE nfl website right. Now is the
k the case is knocked? Out, oh knocked out of
division title. Contention The giants can. Playoffs The titans can
only go seven to. Ten that's not Making there's three
seven win wild card teams right. Now that's. Why, okay,

(01:18:03):
yeah you're, Right so like there's STILL i go in
the playoff machine and try to.

Speaker 3 (01:18:07):
So they they're gonna get eliminated this. Week so right,
now just you, know reading off the standings really. Quickly
The patriots have an extra. Game but The patriots are
number one seed right? Now, Denver, Indye, baltimore The Lack,
Jacksonville buffalo is your top Seven Kansas city, Right New, England, Denver, Indy,
baltimore The Chargers Jackson.

Speaker 1 (01:18:29):
Bellway what'd you call The chargers? Lack don't, know but
that's not a thing you want to talk. About, Cringey,
no that's so much all the. Time i've never heard.
That don't do that. Anymore, wow that's bad. Fight so
The rams the Lar, yeah this Is Paul perrillo with.
Him i've never heard. That, YEAH i don't love.

Speaker 3 (01:18:50):
That, Anyways, yeah, Clearly so here we. Go so The
patriots call him, lack not the. Lack, okay The patriots
are the one seed with the extra game and before
their bye week, here But DENVER i think currently still
has the tie breakers over The patriots IF i think
it's conference and THEN i think it's strength of victory

(01:19:11):
If i'm not.

Speaker 2 (01:19:12):
Mistaken is the next, one which.

Speaker 1 (01:19:13):
Is, Yes so right now they are Both, no there's
common games in there, too oh.

Speaker 3 (01:19:18):
RIGHT i don't know if how many common games, it
but they're both six and two in the. Conference and
The broncos have a better strength of, victory but it
is currently than The. Patriots it is, close and The
patriots and The chiefs Are. Broncos so basically that's where we're.
At if the playoffs sort of start the day of
The patriots will of course have the. Bye BUT i

(01:19:40):
think the more interesting thing to me is that if
they do fall down to the two seed Once denver
plays a game, in The patriots.

Speaker 1 (01:19:47):
Don't in terms of the tie.

Speaker 3 (01:19:48):
Breakers you're looking at a situation NOW i, think you,
know Maybe jacksonville falls off, here but you're looking at
a situation where a team Like, Buffalo.

Speaker 2 (01:19:57):
Houston Or Kansas city is going to be that seventh.

Speaker 3 (01:19:59):
Seed AND i have been kind of projecting this whole
time That buffalo would be the top wildcard BECAUSE i
have respect For buffalo AND i think they'll be the
best wildcard team in terms of their. Record but as
of right, now after they lost to The, texans they're
seven and four and they're the seventh seed right now
in THE. Afc how do you see this whole thing shaking?
OUT i think the number one team THAT i don't

(01:20:22):
know if they will hold on looking at it Is.
JACKSONVILLE i just don't Trust. Jacksonville jacksonville's weird And Trevor
lawrence has just not been particularly. Great so IF i
had to, guess one Of houston Or Kansas city might
Jump jacksonville by the end of this, While.

Speaker 1 (01:20:40):
I'm just gonna throw this. Out SO i was playing
around with THE Espn playoff machine a little. Bit, yeah
the first and second seed could come down to The
cults are really tough schedule down stretch Of patriots And.
Broncos remember last year with the or two years ago
with the draft, stuff we were cheering for like random
games because it impacted the strength of, schedule that same

(01:21:01):
thing might. Happen LIKE i just flipped A Jet saints
game and it changed, Something so that's gonna be a.
Thing who DO i think is gonna fall out? THERE i,
mean if, anybody The jaguars And chargers both, could like
do you end up with a wild? Card That's, Buffalo
houston And Kansas. CITY i think those are probably the
three best.

Speaker 3 (01:21:21):
TEAMS i just don't know if the way the schedule
is in the fact That Kansas city's margin For arabat
is basically zero at this, point you, know do they
have that ability TO i don't think they have to
run the table, necessarily BUT i think they have five
games left or six games, left five games, left they
have to go what four and, two five and, one
like they're NOT i think they could trip.

Speaker 2 (01:21:42):
Up, once but they're gonna have to mostly run the.
Table Bill's Texans.

Speaker 1 (01:21:46):
CHIEFS i think the team most likely to miss as The.
CHIEFS i think the team most likely to go on
a late run here and really climb up Is. Houston,
yeah The bills are kind of in the. Middle Now
i'll ask you, This, okay those are because that's right,
now it's there's kind of a. Gap so you have
the three wild card teams are seven and, Four, Houston,
Pittsburg Kansas city are six and, five and then No.
Gate no team is within two games of that. Group,

(01:22:08):
yeah that being, said do you put any stock Into
Joe burrow being back and The bengals lurking as a.
Threat now they have The, Ravens, Bills, Ravens, Dolphins, Cardinals.
Browns not a, lot not a.

Speaker 3 (01:22:20):
LOT i think that they're they're two. BURIED i don't
know now If burrow plays that. Game SO i hear
a lot of this, too that If burrow, plays The
patriots lose or If chase, plays The patriots. Lose like to,
ME i think that's hard to do because it's a
butterfly effect of like are The patriots more locked?

Speaker 2 (01:22:40):
In like do they play the game? Differently like you,
know when It's.

Speaker 1 (01:22:44):
Chase Of beaconsalz the Way Mitchell tinsley, did.

Speaker 3 (01:22:46):
It's hard to get up for a game against a
banged Up Joe flacco and No Jamar. Chase If Joe
burrow And Jamar chase are playing in that game On,
sunday that's a totally different.

Speaker 2 (01:22:54):
Feel like it's a totally different. Game SO i hate
playing that sort of.

Speaker 3 (01:22:58):
Game AND i just think with The, bengals like on the,
WHOLE i don't know if their offense has really been the.
Issue like they've scored points basically with both. Quarterbacks SO
i don't know If Joe burrow coming, Back now there's
the whole angle of like he's going to rally the
troops and everybody's gonna be, confident And I'LL i hear,

(01:23:19):
That BUT i don't know If Joe burrow coming back
is gonna fix what ails, Them like the are they
now all of a sudden gonna have a great defense
Because Joe burrow's, Back, LIKE i, mean it got a
little bit, Better LIKE i think it was a little
bit better Against, pittsburgh and it was a little bit
better against The, patriots but it's still not a good defense,
Sure and SO i don't know how Much Joe burrow actually.
Fixes and that's not taking anything away From.

Speaker 1 (01:23:41):
BURROW i just all, right let me ask you one. More,
yeah four and. Seven The, Dolphins, Saints, Jet, Steelers, Bengals, Bucks.
Patriots are they lurking say that? Again, Saints, Jets, Steelers, Yeah, Bengals, Bucks,
patriots are they lurking.

Speaker 2 (01:23:57):
In terms of what the?

Speaker 1 (01:23:57):
Playoffs The patriots are in the. Playoffs, no The, dolphins The, Dolphins, Oh, Saints,
jets that's the rest of their. Schedule ye?

Speaker 2 (01:24:05):
Gotcha, Okay. Dolphins i'm a little bit more optimistic about The.

Speaker 1 (01:24:12):
Dolphins oh. SEE i think there's a better chance The
bengals make a. RUN i think there's a better.

Speaker 3 (01:24:16):
Chance that The dolphins make a run BECAUSE i think
that The bengals are gonna have to win their, division
AND i Think baltimore is gonna kind of blow doors
the rest of the.

Speaker 2 (01:24:26):
WAY i really.

Speaker 6 (01:24:26):
DO i.

Speaker 3 (01:24:27):
DON'T i Think miami. IS i don't know what's going
on In. Miami, like Maybe miami's problem was not saying
that he's don't get all, upset not saying That mike McDaniel's.
Perfect but Maybe miami's bigger problem was Actually Tyreek hill
and not Not mike.

Speaker 2 (01:24:45):
McDaniel is that.

Speaker 3 (01:24:46):
Possible, well they were bad After Tyree hill got, hurt
but they're playing a lot better. NOW i just wonder
if the vibes are better In miami because of. THAT
i just look at it more in terms of like
your path, Right LIKE i think Since cincinnati's only pat
me to make the playoffs is to win the. Division
AND i just don't Think baltimore is gonna take. That
it's going to go backwards and.

Speaker 1 (01:25:06):
START i just think their wins this year home indoors it.
HOME i think so. Too but like they still got
to go To New york And pittsburgh that's in the
cold In New. England. Yeah, now maybe The patriots aren't
playing for anything that last. Week it'd be, great who,
knows but, like, yeah, okay.

Speaker 3 (01:25:23):
Anything changing in your mind in terms of who you
want to, play and if The patriots are playing on
wild card, Weekends chargers Or, jaguars and The chargers are
really The chargers are really banged. Up, yeah we've seen
what that team does coming here in the. Cold, yeah that's,
True AND i am with. YOU i IF i had
to pick one team THAT i would want to play
the most of The, Jacksonville.

Speaker 1 (01:25:43):
Yeah, Probably BUT i put those two in like a similar.
TIER i don't think That.

Speaker 3 (01:25:47):
JACKSONVILLE i worry that that's going to Be houston instead Of.
Jacksonville And houston's not A.

Speaker 1 (01:25:52):
Houston i'm not saying The patriots can't Beat houston and
we'll see how well that defense. Travels but that defense
is the real. Deal that's going to be a tough
one if they have to play.

Speaker 3 (01:25:59):
Them all, right let's Take mars call and then we'll
get to The giants and we'll wrap it up on The.

Speaker 1 (01:26:03):
Giants what's, Up?

Speaker 9 (01:26:04):
Mark, hey, guys how you doing? Today Happy thanksgiving. Guys
i'm telling YOU i cannot See Vederian lowe out there
one more. TIME i, mean the guy is literally falling
over his. FEET i THINK i saw him two or
three times literally just fall flat on his face and

(01:26:25):
there was nobody even around. HIM i can't watch that.
ANYMORE i Think bryant is an excellent. TACKLE i think
he played pretty well when he came in For Morgan
moses on the. Right i'd love to see him on the.
Left i'm not sure about this guy that we just picked,
up BUT i really think that at this, point anything
is better Than Viderian. LOWE i can't believe that they

(01:26:47):
kept the guy after last. YEAR i, mean you, know
we just we got to move on from. Him the
last thing is from a fantasy, Perspective, alex who would
you Play Lamar jackson this? Week Or Drake may you don't.

Speaker 1 (01:27:04):
Want to ask me fantasy QUESTIONS a little bad at.

Speaker 2 (01:27:06):
It Lamar jackson against The bengals Or Drake may against The.

Speaker 1 (01:27:09):
Giants, Correct, Well bengals defense has to, regress, right you would.

Speaker 4 (01:27:15):
Think.

Speaker 9 (01:27:17):
AND i would think That baltimore has to.

Speaker 1 (01:27:19):
Win but it is a division. Game it is a division.
Game Drake, may it's a short.

Speaker 3 (01:27:24):
Week i'd probably Go lamar Ask, evin he actually plays
fantasy football a little. Bit i'd probably Go Lamar mark
just BECAUSE i don't. KNOW i just HAVE i have you,
know easy have two TIME. MVP i have a little
bit more faith in guys like that, sometimes you, know
than a young player Like. Drake So i'd probably Go.

(01:27:46):
Lamar BUT i think that you could see it either.

Speaker 2 (01:27:49):
WAY i.

Speaker 9 (01:27:51):
Agree and what's your take On Vederian? Low are you? Agreement?

Speaker 2 (01:27:54):
Look you, know and thanks for the.

Speaker 8 (01:27:56):
Call.

Speaker 2 (01:27:56):
Mark we're gonna let you go and we'll answer your
question About.

Speaker 3 (01:27:58):
Low i'm not nearly as strong As mark is on
the anti Vendarian low. TRAIN i he was not good
for them last, year but a lot of people did
not play good football for The patriots last. Year and
was he really set up in a great position to
succeed with that coaching. Staff on top of, that like

(01:28:19):
he had to. Play we're talking about him playing, LIKE
i don't know what did he played like thirteen games last?
Year fourteen games last? Year played a no because chokes
the coor four played one.

Speaker 1 (01:28:29):
But he didn't finish.

Speaker 6 (01:28:29):
It.

Speaker 2 (01:28:30):
Ye, Yeah well so he played a lot of games last.

Speaker 1 (01:28:32):
Year you're hope he played. Fourteen you're hoping That.

Speaker 2 (01:28:37):
Vederian lil only has to play like four, games three,
games four games this, year, Right so it's a much,
shorter much smaller sample. Size AND i REMEMBER i looked
this up last night because as we segue here to The,
giants The giants on paper have a pass rush that

(01:28:58):
you should. Fear you, know A, Carter Brian, Burns Dexter
lawrence rushing in the. Middle it's a good.

Speaker 3 (01:29:05):
Group they have, underperformed wildly, underperformed and that's why they're head.
Coaching their defensive coordinator no longer have. JOBS i would
say that's the main reason they have the second highest
payroll in THE nfl on, defense including a third overall
pick rookie And Abdull carter all invested in their. Defense
Dibideau Carter Burns, lawrence and with that, group they are

(01:29:29):
twenty third in pressure. Rate they are fifteenth in past
rush win. Rate that's not good. Enough if that's how
heavily invested you are and all of, that that is
not good enough if you're The. Giants that's why their
staff has gotten blown. Out, now at the same, time
those guys individually are still disruptive and can still wreck a.
Game SO i went AND i looked back at this

(01:29:53):
and BECAUSE i remember watching remember The Raiders patriots game
In Mexico city twenty, Seventeen, Yeah Mexico city. Game at
right tackle for that, GAME i think that it was
supposed to Be Marcus. CANNON i think he was the
starter that. YEAR i can't remember exactly who they had
at right. Tackle it's kind of blurred lines Between volmer And,
cannon and when exactly those transitions. HAPPENED i think it

(01:30:16):
Was cannon they needed to Start Lee Adrian. Waddle canon
was hurt in that, game So Lee Adrian waddle started
that game In Mexico city in twenty seventeen against Prime Khalil,
mack who rushed over the right tackle for most of his.
Career so we're talking about A hall Of fame, player
and he guesses on how many sacks Le Adrian waddle

(01:30:37):
gave up in that.

Speaker 1 (01:30:37):
Game non zero was the right tackle the, yeah so.

Speaker 2 (01:30:42):
Zero so that to, me not to testament To Adrian
waddle like, good good effort by.

Speaker 1 (01:30:47):
Him is WHY i always say they need a guy
like Le Adrien.

Speaker 2 (01:30:50):
Wattle good effort by.

Speaker 3 (01:30:51):
Him you guys laugh WHEN i bring him up like
they're a valuable. Player good effort by. Him but at
the same, time that's, coaching, right that's. McDaniel Dante scarnecia
was still on the staff at that. Point they were
able to piece it. Together that was just one, game
but they were able to piece it. Together can The
patriots piece together for you, know let's call it four

(01:31:12):
or five weeks Of Darian lowe at left tackle instead
Of Will, campbell that's the question that's.

Speaker 1 (01:31:16):
Gonna that's the next To Joe.

Speaker 3 (01:31:18):
Toney Probably watt was playing right that, day so it's
next to shat good, player, Right, YEAH i, mean that's
what they're gonna have to.

Speaker 2 (01:31:26):
Do that's what they're gonna have to. Do so a
couple of things with This giants.

Speaker 1 (01:31:29):
Team Hey Derian low's coach Not Vderian Lowlador wills coaching
high school fotball now for him all coach and run
game coordinator At Bishop Dune Catholic.

Speaker 3 (01:31:37):
School so there's the difficult part about this matchup to.
Me for The, giants AND i hate writing and talking
about games like. This they have a brand new coaching.
Staff they have an interim head coach it's only coached
two games In Mike, kafka and then they just and
they just hire Fired Shane bowen and Appointed Charlie bullen
as their defensive coordinator slash play caller on. Defense there

(01:31:59):
is a big element of unknown with. That last week
Against detroit they ran true two trick plays for long.
Touchdowns on, offense you don't really know how Much bulan's gonna,
change you, know in a. Week you don't think he's
gonna change a. Ton it's probably gonna be relatively the.
Same but each play caller has different. Tendencies they like
different things in different, situations like for, example.

Speaker 1 (01:32:23):
Third and.

Speaker 3 (01:32:24):
Five you, Know bowen might have all these tendencies on
third and. Five Does bolan have the same tendencies on
third and five As bowen? Does and when you face that,
situation what are you looking?

Speaker 1 (01:32:33):
At what are you?

Speaker 3 (01:32:33):
Expecting like those different types of things gives this game
a little bit of an, unknown.

Speaker 1 (01:32:40):
Right and it's tough because it's not like you can
go back and, look he's never called plays. Before he's
a long time linebackers, Coach so it's not like you
can go all, right, well you, know we talked about
this With mike McCoy and you were going way. Back
but Like mike McCoy had coached, before had been a head,
coach so you kind of go maybe study some of those.
Tendencies you can't really do that. Here and the other
thing is he AND i talked To David andrews about
this this, week he is going to be more aggressive in. General,

(01:33:01):
yeah so the issues The patriots had with The blitz last, week,
like you're just gonna see a more aggressive, defense whether
that's what you know The bengals put on tape last
week or. Not he's trying to show up. Again never
been a coordinator. Before here's a chance for him to
maybe get on the league. Map and you come out
first game as an INTERIM dc and you shut Down Drake,
may you might get some.

Speaker 3 (01:33:20):
Calls, Yeah so he we don't really know What Charlie
bullen's defense is gonna look. Like what we can go
off of is what The giants have been AND i,
AGAIN i they're not going to reinvent the wheel in a,
week so it's gonna be somewhat.

Speaker 1 (01:33:33):
Similar.

Speaker 3 (01:33:34):
Uh they play a lot of man. Coverage they're one
of the highest rates of man coverage in the ENTIRE
nfl this.

Speaker 1 (01:33:39):
Year.

Speaker 2 (01:33:40):
Uh they play a lot of five man pass. Rush
my guess is that.

Speaker 3 (01:33:44):
You're gonna see more three and four man pass rush
with a spy On Drake may in this. Game Maybe
Abdull carter spying him a little.

Speaker 1 (01:33:51):
Bit.

Speaker 2 (01:33:51):
Uh it was A Abdul carter do that in college
and he's, like he's awesome at.

Speaker 1 (01:33:55):
That he's a really good. SPY.

Speaker 3 (01:33:57):
H so maybe it hits him that's gonna be the.
Spy this pass rush worries me a little.

Speaker 1 (01:34:02):
Bit it's.

Speaker 3 (01:34:02):
Legit they get after the. Quarterback the numbers might not
bear it, out but on paper you can see how
they can be. Dangerous the other element of this game
that we are kind of unsure about is who's going
to pay quarterback for The. Giants so we have a
new defensive play caller we have an interim head, coach
and we don't know exactly On wednesday at you, know eleven,

(01:34:24):
thirty who's going to play quarterback for The giants On Monday.
Night it definitely sounds like it's trending Towards Jackson's dart
being back in this. Game BUT i will add it's,
there but It's giants bye week next week as, well
so do you if he's kind of like if he
clears protocol late in the, week, like do you throw
him in there on A monday night game or do

(01:34:45):
you just take the bye week reset and bring him
back for the last four. Games he's going to come
back because he needs the. Reps he's a rookie quarterback
and he needs the, Reps but do you know run
him out? There so to, speak with all this concussion,
nonsense when you have that bye weekly and you're not
really playing for anything in terms of, STANDINGS i don't.
KNOW i would much rather Play Jameis, Winston there's no

(01:35:06):
doubt about. It i'd much rather Play Jameis. Winston but
it does sound like it's trending towards, it but potentially Being.

Speaker 1 (01:35:12):
Dart, YEAH i, mean it's it's. Tricky you wanted to
get the. Experience this is good prime time on the.
Road you get him a chance that. Environment but he's
had multiple concussion issues this, year so that's a tricky. One,
yeah it.

Speaker 3 (01:35:22):
Is and you know a couple of things With, Dart
he's particularly been good on extended plays and design quarterback.

Speaker 2 (01:35:30):
Run but are you really going to run him coming
off a. Concussion but that's the.

Speaker 1 (01:35:34):
Thing you don't play him if you can't run the
full compliment of.

Speaker 3 (01:35:37):
Place so it's very different, offenses is WHY i bring it, up,
Right so With Jackson dart, there AND i wouldn't say
they're they're completely copying it Because Lane kiffen does some creative,
things but they're they're putting him in the shotgun spread
all the, Time like it's like seventy five percent shotgun
rate When jackson darts in the, game because that's what
he did at all miss that's what he did in,
college that's what he's comfortable. Doing With jameis Wins In Russell,

(01:36:00):
wilson they've been an under center heavy. Offense they've actually
been the total. Opposite so this is totally uh this
in this, instance you are kind of preparing for two different. Offenses,
Right it's not like last, week, right so it is
a little bit more of a. Factor you, Know dart
has been a gun run quarterback RPOs design quarterback, run,
uh drop back pass from the. Gun Jameis winston's been

(01:36:24):
under center bombs away As James winston.

Speaker 2 (01:36:27):
Does so it's a big.

Speaker 1 (01:36:28):
Different touchdown passes From.

Speaker 3 (01:36:29):
Gunnroshewski, yeah double plus double, passes trick, plays crazy, Nonsense.

Speaker 1 (01:36:33):
How awesome was?

Speaker 2 (01:36:34):
That SO i it'd be interesting to, see uh What kafka,
says what they?

Speaker 3 (01:36:41):
Do you, know if he practices without a red non
contact and in full you know he's, cleared.

Speaker 1 (01:36:47):
Right and they're also is the thing of, like hey
he's our starting. Quarterback if he can, play he's gonna.
Play and just the message that that. Sense you got
no thoughts on gun throwing a touchdow Past James, Winson,
no because it didn't work and it. Works jamis apparently
has excellent ball.

Speaker 2 (01:37:01):
Skills, yeah but it like shouldn't have, worked but it.

Speaker 1 (01:37:04):
Did they have a gutter navigating the pocket.

Speaker 3 (01:37:07):
And neither one of them should have, worked like the
first one that they, ran the double pass That winston,
actually you know they threw it back To, winston And
winston threw it To Wandell. Robinson Wandell robinson was opened
for like five, minutes and it took so long to
execute the hand off fake and then the throwback To
winston that The lions actually almost broke up the pass

(01:37:29):
in the end zone To Wandell, robinson even Though Wandell,
robinson if you look at the all twenty two was
open the entire play until the catch point and then
it's like it's a traffic area at the catch. Point
and then the one to the Gunner roschewsky touchdown, Pass
WINSTON'S i don't know how he caught the ball and
THEN i don't know how he broke.

Speaker 1 (01:37:47):
The tackle on the. Ends because He's Jameis, winston he.

Speaker 2 (01:37:49):
Does it's. Crazy apparently he's like an elite tight.

Speaker 3 (01:37:52):
End if It's Jameis winston On monday, night he's going
to give you two or three chances to pick off
passes and you got to take advantage like.

Speaker 1 (01:37:57):
That that's The James Cover Jameis winston.

Speaker 2 (01:37:59):
Game In Jameis.

Speaker 3 (01:38:00):
Winston, uh you know in the open we, say you,
know no risk, it no. Biscuit that Is Jameis. Winston
that was birth From Jameis. Winston this guy has a
high turn turnover worthy play rate and a high big.
Time he's, thirty mister thirty. Thirty, like that's that's the
GUY i want to play On Monday.

Speaker 1 (01:38:17):
Night Jamis, Okay SO i was about to Say Jameis
winston is the embodiment of fun chaos.

Speaker 3 (01:38:22):
FOOTBALL i would much rague. Chaos, Alright, yeah that's Why
i'd much rather play him IF i was The. PATRIOTS
i Think dart's got SOMETHING i was impressed, watching but.

Speaker 1 (01:38:31):
IT'S i said in the. Draft my thing On dart was,
LIKE i don't love, him BUT i think in the
right situation it makes sense and The giants can build
up that offensive line a little. Bit Molik neighbors comes
back fully, Healthy LIKE i actually do like that spot
for HIM i.

Speaker 3 (01:38:46):
HAD i can kind of see it With, dart And
i'll give The giants the coach, Though i'll give him
a little bit of. Credit their offense has not gone
in the, tank despite the fact that they've played three different.
Quarterbacks Molik neighbors is out for the. Season they Fired Brian.
Dable they have an interim head coach and they're like
eighteenth and Dvo.

Speaker 1 (01:39:04):
At which in like a hot coaching name for a. While.
Yep was he the ORIGINAL qb coach For. MAHOMES i
know he was In Kansas city.

Speaker 2 (01:39:11):
One he, was he was one of THE qb. COACHES
i don't.

Speaker 1 (01:39:14):
Know he was the quarterbacks coach eighteen through twenty. One
he was the passing game coordinator in twenty and twenty.

Speaker 3 (01:39:19):
One so you say they need to get the right
coach in, There i'm not, now they need to win
some games down the, stretch. Right kavka has been interviewed
for head coaching jobs in the. Past he's kind of
a hot. Name he's a tight pants. Guy he's a former, player,
quarterback you, know former oc you, know like he's got
all that going, on, Right like he's got that is

(01:39:39):
that's it. Now dable didn't, play but they hired that
kind of guy With, Dable so maybe they want to
completely move away from. That but If kavka had wins
some games here down the stretch Like Darth, nion there is.

Speaker 4 (01:39:52):
Going to be.

Speaker 1 (01:39:52):
Somewhere. Yeah he also he said he read off his,
resume what do you know about the twenty ten out back?

Speaker 9 (01:39:57):
Ball?

Speaker 2 (01:39:58):
Oh, god let's not do.

Speaker 1 (01:39:59):
This, NO i gotta give you stat, line real, quick go.
Ahead and the twenty ten Out Back bowl Against, Auburn Mike,
coffins quarterback For, northwestern went forty seven for seventy. Eight,
yeah you want to talk about no risk and no.
Biskit forty seven for seventy, eight five hundred and thirty two,
yards four, touchdowns five. Picks also recorded twenty carries for
thirty yards in a. Touchdown good. Numbers that's the guy

(01:40:22):
who should be Coaching jamis wit is? It you know
you didn't listen to anything as no four, touchdowns five.

Speaker 2 (01:40:27):
Picks i'll take, that no, risk no best.

Speaker 4 (01:40:29):
Hit this.

Speaker 1 (01:40:29):
Wild they.

Speaker 3 (01:40:32):
The giants, OFFENSE i give them some. Credit the defense
is completely. Underperformed in. Stinks their offense, though like they should,
stink and they kind of are, middling WHICH i give
them credit for for keeping it. Together there one last
thing On.

Speaker 1 (01:40:47):
Dart, Also patriots Legend Jeremy everard caught six passes for
sixty four yards in that.

Speaker 3 (01:40:51):
Game, okay one last thing On dart and then we
have a couple more calls and. Stuff the, splits the
man zone splits are. Crazy he is much worse against
man coverage for whatever, reason much. Worse like it's like, crazy.

Speaker 1 (01:41:05):
Which is weird because to, run so you'd think he'd you,
know take advantage of. That, yeah it is.

Speaker 3 (01:41:11):
INTERESTING i thought it would be the opposite as. Well
usually young quarterbacks have difficult time with zone because you
have to read out zone and it's more about reads
and scheme and finding the voids and all that kind
of stuff man to manage just like pick a match
up and throw at, it. Right so normally young quarterbacks that's,
more that's simpler for, them that's easier for. Them H
Wandell robinson's a good man beating, receivers kind of like

(01:41:33):
their Pop. Douglas BUT i wonder if maybe you, know
the lack of weaponry shows up, there you, know no.

Speaker 1 (01:41:39):
Neighbors slayton's, Fine, YEAH i do wonder Like robinson's the
kinder receiver Like TREMARY dk And, tennessee like that prototype
of receiver has given them.

Speaker 3 (01:41:49):
Trouble, Yeah Marcus jones should be On Wandel. Robinson but you,
know that's a speed on speed matchup in the. Slot
so hopefully that that goes The patriots way On. Sunday
BUT i are A. Monday excuse. ME i was really
shocked that how bad darts numbers are against man compared
to his. Own SO i expect man with a spy

(01:42:10):
on third down in this game from The patriots of
dart plays in the.

Speaker 1 (01:42:14):
GAME i think that's about.

Speaker 3 (01:42:15):
It on The, giants their run defense is historically. Bad
this is a weakness on weakness matchup in that. Regard
patriots rush offense has not been. Good they're thirtieth in
the league AND epa as a run, offense and then
The giants are thirty second in the league and pretty
much every statistical category as a run defense and, theory
your run offense has been a little bit better than

(01:42:35):
their defense has been stopping the. Run last, Week Jamior
gibbs had like what two twenty five or something like.

Speaker 1 (01:42:42):
THAT a couple of big.

Speaker 3 (01:42:43):
Runs you, know downhill runs have really given them. Problems
here's a good staff for you before we wrap it
up on man gap. Schemes so just like downhill duo
lead you know, power The giants are giving up seven
point nine yards of carry the next the next closest,

(01:43:06):
team the thirty first team in the.

Speaker 2 (01:43:08):
League you're gonna like.

Speaker 3 (01:43:09):
This who want to guess who the thirty first team
in the league. Is it's stopping it stopping downhill. Tradition,
yeah traditional downhill, runs gap. Schemes Buffalo, bills The Buffalo, bills,
right thirty first The Buffalo, bills so seven point nine
yards for The. Giants The Buffalo bills are thirty first.
Four it's a two yard. Difference, wow it's a two

(01:43:33):
yard difference like. That you don't see that a whole.
Lot so if you're looking for The patriots to run
the ball against a historically bad run, defense even With
Dexter lawrence, inside they cannot stop the run down the
middle of the. Field And Jamior gibbs just torched, them
torched them on those types of. Runs so there you have.
It all, Right we're gonna let you guys wrap it
up here for.

Speaker 1 (01:43:53):
Us tony is In. Canada what's, Up? Tony, hi.

Speaker 11 (01:43:57):
Guys, Yeah i'm just. SORRY i just this show, now
So i'm just catching a late apologies IF i asked
something you guys have already. Discussed but looking at the big,
PICTURE i don't know if we're going to get THE
afc overall and the number one by BUT i think
THE Afc east is definitely. Realistic SO i think, QUESTION

(01:44:19):
i want to ask you guys real, quick which games
do you think we have to win in order to
finish in THE.

Speaker 12 (01:44:25):
Afc east The, bills they, have The paths and The
eagles as their hardest match. Up for, us it's The
bills And. Ravens And i'll get off the line here right.
Away but last, question real, quick if you can answer
and please humor, Me batman Or?

Speaker 11 (01:44:41):
Superman that's.

Speaker 1 (01:44:42):
All thank, Thanks.

Speaker 3 (01:44:43):
Tony i'm A batman guy, Person Batman Dark knight. TRILOGY
i even liked the new one with what's his Name?
PATTINSON i haven't seen That one's pretty. Good, yeah but
The New superman was good.

Speaker 1 (01:44:55):
TOO i like. It i'm not a big like superhero movie,
guy BUT i mean The Dark knight movies.

Speaker 3 (01:44:59):
Are The New superman is pretty. Solid you, know he
has a, dog which obviously gives him brownie points in my.
Mind in terms of THE, afcas you, know, LOOK i
would love to see The patriots beat The bills and
The ravens too and really make a statement in those.
Games but in, actuality they really just need to beat The,
giants The, jets and The.

Speaker 1 (01:45:19):
Dolphins if they clean up on that they should Be,
okay they're gonna. Win they're gonna be at thirteen, wins.
Right if they can just get one of the two
between The bills and The, ravens they're being great.

Speaker 2 (01:45:27):
Shape, YEAH i mean that would be like dream.

Speaker 3 (01:45:29):
SCENARIO i do think that there's a, possibility AND i
was thinking about this that if they beat The bills
and that's a division clincher and t shirt the letdown
Against buffalo or Against, Baltimore excuse me is staring at,
You so maybe you, KNOW i think it'd probably be
more likely that they off the by get up For,

(01:45:51):
buffalo win the, division and then they probably go To
baltimore and maybe they have a little bit of a letdown.

Speaker 1 (01:45:58):
Game AND i also wonder if you, know we're gonna
pick all these games and we get to the end
of the year and maybe That miami game doesn't mean.

Speaker 3 (01:46:03):
Anything, yeah, Yeah but if they beat The, giants The,
jets and The, dolphins and they take care of business
against the teams they should, beat they're going to be
at thirteen and four at worst case, scenario, right and
that should easily win the division and maybe even so.

Speaker 1 (01:46:19):
Well, actually if they do, That so if they can
just beat to your, point just beat the teams they, Should, Jets, Giants. Dolphins,
yeah one loss from The bills would would give them the.
Division so you would just need The bills to lose To, Philly,
Cincinnati cincinnati With, burrow, right With, Burrow, pittsburgh maybe that's At.

(01:46:39):
Pittsburgh they're probably not gonna lose to The browns Or.

Speaker 3 (01:46:42):
Jets but, yeah, NO i, mean you don't even necessarily
need to beat The. Bills if you take care of,
business you can have, to but it's, yeah it'd be,
nice all, right last, Call, eldred wrap us.

Speaker 1 (01:46:51):
Up what's, Up?

Speaker 13 (01:46:52):
Beldrid, Hey so let's tell y'all are doing.

Speaker 1 (01:46:54):
Today they?

Speaker 13 (01:46:55):
Good, hey Bart, ALEX i love you on The mother podcast,
man love of most of the. Time but What i'm
worrying about, is LIKE i said that we had a
historic bad. Defense we couldn't run against that we didn't
play it against a couple of, times and we still,
get you, know not that many. Yards but one day Of,
ROBINSON i don't know If Marcus jones to run with,

(01:47:18):
him cause that food is past BECAUSE i saw, him you,
know saw the game again last, night you, know on
THE Nfl. Network, Yeah i'm Like, darren you, know And
evan Be kevin about going Against, kevil about going Against.
WINSTON i know he might give you something but that
but that guy can't throw and he is, Accurate so
you gotta Be kevin With. Jacksville But i'm hoping we
pull it. Off i'm thinking twenty one BECAUSE i think

(01:47:41):
they're gonna put some points on the. Board, YEAH i
don't know how office line gonna.

Speaker 1 (01:47:45):
Be, YEAH i like that.

Speaker 3 (01:47:47):
Prediction eligent dame for the. Call, Yeah i'm a Big
Wandell robinson. Fan but his game is a lot Like Pop.
Douglas's he's a speed. Slot he's not a like jitterbug.
Slide he's on an underneath. Slot they targeted him a
lot on like crossers and deep overs and you, know
vertical routes out of the slot and his like a
dots like over ten like you, know like he's a

(01:48:07):
down the field receiver with a lot of, speed a
lot Like. Pop Pop douglas is playing in this role
for The patriots. Now uh he's their leading. Receiver he's
been their best player on offense without, neighbors and he's
a good.

Speaker 2 (01:48:21):
PLAYER i like watching them. PLAY i love those types
of guys that create that kind of.

Speaker 1 (01:48:25):
Separation.

Speaker 2 (01:48:26):
Uh the run, Game, yeah it's a it's a concern.

Speaker 3 (01:48:28):
Now My my biggest thing with the run game and
we have to wrap it, Up alex is uh THAT
i want it to be situationally.

Speaker 1 (01:48:35):
GOOD i don't need.

Speaker 3 (01:48:36):
Them to be a dominant run. Team they're a dominant passing.
Team they're an explosive passing, team a high efficiency passing.
GAME i don't need them to be a great passing
or run, game, LIKE i don't need this good, enough
just situationally short, yardage five minute offense to close out,
games goal line like you need to be able to
gain yards on the. Ground when you need to gain

(01:48:57):
yards on the, Ground, yeah doesn't mean that needs to
be you like the the hallmark of your offense or
like the foundation of your. Offense but when it's you,
know first and goal from the, one you need to
be able to get it to punch it in and
score a.

Speaker 2 (01:49:09):
Touchdown, sure all, right what a hard count for.

Speaker 3 (01:49:12):
Us, now we'll be back next, week coming off The
monday night football. Game it's it will be the bye,
week so no game to, preview but we'll still be.
Here On, wednesday and we will still be talking about
That giants, game And i'll maybe look ahead To buffalo
a little bit and talk about the rest of the
week and all that good. Stuff so we'll see you guys,
Then Patriots, unfiltered we'll be up in ten minutes here

(01:49:34):
or so at noon for, us, though we'll see you
guys Next.

Speaker 1 (01:49:37):
Wednesday.

Speaker 12 (01:49:37):
Right, hey this Is.

Speaker 8 (01:49:42):
Alex thanks for tuning into the. Show if you really
want to help, us make sure you like us On Apple, Podcasts,
spotify or wherever you get your. Podcasts, also make sure
you follow us on The New England patriots YouTube channel
to see this show and everything else we do here
at The.

Speaker 1 (01:49:55):
Patriots that's a lot

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