Patriots Catch-22 1/2: 3 Up/Down vs. Chargers, Bills Preview, NFL Draft Talk

Tune-in as Evan Lazar and Alex Barth share their observations from the Patriots week 17 loss, and turn the page to preview their season finale against the Buffalo Bills. Plus, they take a look at some of the draft prospects from the college football playoffs.

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Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:30):
Patriots Unfiltered the world's original podcast. Patriots Unfiltered brings you
inside Jillette Stadium for rousing conversations on everything New England, Patriots,
and NFL. Join host Fred Kersh alongside Patriots dot COM's
Paul Parillo, Mike Desso, Evan Lazar, Tamara Brown, and Alex
Francisco as they bring you in depth coverage of the team.

Speaker 2 (00:48):
He's a red shirt rookie at that point, so it's
really that's his rookie season essentially too. So now we're
really not talking about them, really knowing.

Speaker 1 (00:56):
Search for Patriots Unfiltered anywhere you get your podcasts. This
is the Patriots Catch twenty two podcasts with Evan Lazar
and Alex bar.

Speaker 2 (01:09):
I'm Lazar Blazar from Lazar. Hello, everybody nailed it, Joined
as always by our Bark.

Speaker 3 (01:19):
Here is Evan Lazar and Alex Bars.

Speaker 2 (01:21):
Yeah, that's fair. All right, Let's go to the downs.
You got seventeen of them, so hurry up. That is you.
Last week you told me you had like six down? Yeah,
how many do you have this week? I mean, this
game was even worse.

Speaker 3 (01:33):
I just kind of bundle them all together.

Speaker 2 (01:36):
I did kind of do that. Okay, you did you
do offense, defense, special teams. No, I should have done that.
This would have been a good week to do that. Okay, well,
I don't even know where to start right now. I
am gonna pay the bills real quick though, and say, hey,
Patriots fans, if you want to see Toyota right, am
I doing it right? Toyota, Toyota, Toyota, It's a tea,

(01:59):
It's right there. Toyota's best offers, including those not seen
on TV. Go to buy a Toyota dot com. It's
Toyota's official website for deals from the official vehicle of
the New England Patriots. Toyota Let's go places and easy
to drink, easy to enjoy, but like the official beer
sponsor of the New England Patriots. Hello everybody, Evan Lazar,
Alex Barth, Patriots Catch twenty two with you for the

(02:20):
next couple hours, and we're obviously gonna talk plenty off season.
We'll talk plenty of draft. That's gonna be the meat
of today's show, as it will be for the next
four or five months. Ready on Catch twenty ye Wait
for insincerity being sincere That kind of came off like
I was being sarcastic about that.

Speaker 3 (02:39):
But I do love it.

Speaker 2 (02:41):
I do wish that we were talking about playoffs and
competitive football absolutely, uh So. But this is where I
want to start today because I think it's important for
us to still talk about what's going on in the
present and and what's going to happen with the direction
of this football team. Alex and I just coming off
of Saturday's game. Uh The one feeling that I can't

(03:02):
escape that I keep feeling about the performance against the
Chargers was that was the one thing they could not
do like they could They could play a game like
they played in Arizona, which was lackluster, but okay, you
know you you're just not a very good team. You're
on the road, right, like all that kind of stuff.
They could have played a game like they did in

(03:24):
Buffalo and we'd be probably giving them flowers, like if
they had stacked two games like that back to back.
The one thing that this coaching staff could not afford
was to get blown out, and not even just get
blown out, but really just not be competitive in any
phase from start to finish. And I thought after the
Bills game that Drodmeo's job was safe coming off this

(03:50):
Chargers game. I'm not saying that he should or shouldn't,
but I think all options are currently on the table
because of how bad it looked against a Charger team
which seems to have its bleep together, and you can
kind of see the compare and contrast of a well coached,
well oiled machine with the Chargers, who aren't blowing doors

(04:12):
off of every team. Right, they had just played a
close game against the Broncos.

Speaker 3 (04:15):
They think in the week before that they got was
it the week four, two weeks before they got wrecked
by Tampa? Yeah, that was in the last month, I know.

Speaker 2 (04:21):
So they're not a wagon. We're not talking. If the
Bills had done what the Chargers did, I think I
would have felt differently.

Speaker 3 (04:27):
If you flip the two games, like, it's more or
less what I was expecting from those two games, just backwards,
right right right. Play the Chargers close, tight, Maybe you lose,
but you put up a fight against a team that's
sort of right there in the playoff picture, and look,
Buffalo's Buffalo. What's gonna happen is gonna happen? Instead it flipped.

Speaker 2 (04:43):
No, I'm with you.

Speaker 3 (04:44):
If we're just playing the prediction game, regardless of what
we think shoul or shouldn't happen. We've both kind of said, like, yeah,
they're probably gonna run it back. That was the first
game it kind of came away from and said.

Speaker 2 (04:56):
Maybe not. Yeah, it's a great point, and I just
what I keep coming back to as well, is okay,
So you decide that you've committed to girod Mayo and
you feel as though he is gonna grow on the
job and all that kind of stuff, and it's it
is a little I don't want to call it unfair
because it's professional sports, but you had to have known

(05:19):
that he was gonna have some growing pains as really
a guy coming into this very very green for the position, right,
So you had to have known that this was gonna
sort of be a multi year build for girod Mayo here.
But at the same time, it just is hard to envision,
like how do you rearrange the deck chairs here underneath

(05:42):
girod Mayo to then make it better next year is
hard to envision. Like the way to do it, I
suppose would be to move on from one of the coordinators,
But now you're scapegoating a coordinator who probably doesn't deserve
it to be honest, especially on an offense in my opinion,
in Alex van Pel doesn't deserve to be scapegoated. But

(06:04):
with a head has to roll for going three and
fourteen or three four and thirteen, whatever it ends up being.
And I just I don't know how that changes anything
really at the core of it. If all you're doing
is we're gonna let go of DeMarcus Comington and we're
gonna bring in a more experienced, a more seasoned defensive
coordinator on that side of the ball, I'll give a name.

(06:26):
You know, Let's say the Giants, let's say they clean
house and Patrick Graham becomes available. You know, maybe you
bring in Patrick Graham, who's called a defense, who's run
a defense, who's been a successful coordinator in different areas.
But then at the same time, it's like, okay, but
you're still you still need the head coaching to significantly improve,

(06:47):
even if the coordinators are a little bit more stable
underneath him. And it just it feels like a lot
of gymnastics to try to avoid the dude state scenario.

Speaker 3 (06:57):
The whole thing with that Bills game was you just
wanted to see some sort of progress from this coaching
staff this year. Like you said, it might be a
multi year thing, but you can't just have a bad
year one throughout and then expect to jump without any
evidence in year two. And the Bills game was is
this the start of that late season push? And instead
it looks like, more likely than not, it was a blip.

(07:17):
It was an anomaly. And that that's where you look
at Trod Mayo, because if he's gonna be this CEO
head coach, it is all about development, not just of
the players, but of the coaches, and this game was
a step back in that regard.

Speaker 2 (07:28):
Yeah, so I want to talk a little bit about,
you know, what actually went wrong, and then we'll do
three up, three down, and then and then we'll get
to the draft. We'll try to keep this a little
bit shorter than our normal game precap because I know
that there's not a ton of there's only so much
to Yeah, but I think the biggest thing to look
on the offensive side of the ball when I watch
their film offensively and it's not it's not too that's

(07:50):
the word. It's not to make excuses for Alex van
Pelt and the coaching. Could the play calling, could the
play design. I've been critical of that all year long.
The play design in particular, I think is pretty vanilla.
But at the same time you watch them try to
execute the slot pass to Pop Douglas and it turns
into a horrible t which, like I love that. That

(08:12):
So what that play is supposed to be is.

Speaker 3 (08:13):
Like you're he's supposed he's essentially tossing it to Pop
Douglas is coming in motion, but you have ramondre Stevenson
go out the other way as ee Candy. Yeah, I've
seen that play work a ton of times. It's a
very fun play. It's a good touch for Pop Douglas
all that, but if you can't execute it, you can't
execute it. And this is where you have to square
the two between Alex van Pelt.

Speaker 2 (08:33):
Understand it.

Speaker 3 (08:33):
You know you don't have the talent to run it,
so maybe don't run it, but like, could you just
you could do that with a handoff and it would
still work. The toss makes it a little bit better,
but you can still get to the point with a handoff,
And if you know you can't run it as a toss,
you got to recognize that if you're Van Pelt. But
also they probably don't have the talent there to run
it as.

Speaker 2 (08:50):
A toss, right, So it's tough. That's I think a
great microcosm of everything on offense is that particular play
of all the issues with their offense right now. Because
they don't have the talent, they don't have the chemistry
whatever you want to call it, just sort of the
execution to be able to pull off a play like that.
But because they can't do anything that's sort of high level,

(09:12):
they're just so basic offensively that they're easy to defend. Right, So,
like it's sort of this you know, damned if you do,
damned if you don't, type of scenario. And like you said,
you know, you see teams like the Bills, teams like
the Lions, teams like the Packers like pull off plays
like this all the time. It's a wing tea play.
It's like it goes back like fifty years. Like they've
been running these types of like veer wingt type of

(09:34):
offense scheme since, you know, like Navy in the nineteen forties, right,
Like this is not new to football by any stretch
of the imagination. But the Patriots don't have the ability
to do it, And so I go with Van Pelt,
I'm like, okay, but you know that's hard, like that,
that's hard to coordinate an offense, and everybody is And
I get that there's been some criticism about him reacting

(09:56):
too much to the media and what we're saying about
the play calling, But everybody's on you to be more
creative and be more innovative, and be more tricky and
like all these types of things. And then you try
something that's a little bit creative and tricky and it
just completely backfires, like it completely blows up in your face.
And so like, what do you do if you're Van
Pelt is a really good question. So basically what I'm

(10:18):
getting out with the offense is every single week that
I watch their offensive film. It's not so much that
I don't think that they have a plan or like
that they don't go into games with like a script
and sort of a goal or a you know, landmarks
of like how we are going to move the ball
and how we're going to score points and how we're
gonna win this game. I just don't think they have

(10:39):
the talent, Like I just think they're very very talent
poor and all over the place. Besides basically quarterback and
tight end, So like, what are you supposed to really look?

Speaker 3 (10:49):
There's certainly a case to talk about the coaching staff.
And I'm not saying the coaching is perfect.

Speaker 2 (10:53):
It's not.

Speaker 3 (10:54):
If we are to list the biggest issues facing the
New England Patriots this season, talent roster talent is at
the top.

Speaker 2 (11:00):
Of the list number one.

Speaker 3 (11:01):
There's plenty of teams in the league that have a
very talented roster and an okay coach or even a
bad coach that they may look good. You would probably
say the Detroit Lions. I would say the San Francisco
forty nine Ers.

Speaker 2 (11:12):
Yeah.

Speaker 3 (11:13):
There's also some coaches that are considered great coaches that
have rosters to avoid of talent and it doesn't look
very good. Yeah, so does the Does there need to
be changes with the coaching staff? Absolutely? None of it matters.
If you don't improve the talent, that is issue number one,
first and foremost. And if you disagree, I'd ask you
to think about it this way. Would you rather run

(11:33):
it back with the same coaches but a better roster,
or the same roster but different coaches.

Speaker 2 (11:40):
It's a good question. Obviously you don't have to, right
bull should right, bull should be improved, but give me
the better roster all day.

Speaker 3 (11:49):
It's it's the players on the field that ultimately decide
the game.

Speaker 2 (11:52):
Yeah, it's a it's a great point. And again I'm
not trying to shield Alex van Pelt to blame or
make excuses for him, But when I watch their their
their tape offensively, I just don't I'm running out of
ideas of like, Okay, how what could they really do? Differently,
Like they can't run block, they can't pass protect for

(12:13):
very long, Like people are criticizing him of you know,
not giving the tackles a lot of help in past protection.
But they don't have the capability of running like two
man routes because they don't have guys that get open, right. So, like,
if you're running a two man route, then you're trying
to set up a one on one matchup for somebody

(12:34):
by doing that max protect two man route. You know,
you're thinking post safety, single high, so someone's gonna get
the safety and someone's gonna be one on one. But
you consistently need that player to be able to win
one on one. They don't have that, so they put
everybody in the pattern to try to stretch out the
field and try to make the defense at least cover
everything right, So like it just it continue to just

(12:57):
kind of see that. Offensively, Now defensively, I still think
they're not playing to their talent level on defense. I
still believe that there are better defense than what they've
shown talent wise, and the main reason to me is
a lack of fundamentals on the defensive side of the ball.
If you, I will continue to say this over and

(13:18):
over again, if you tackle well, if you play with
good angles, good leverage, if you play with good fundamentals
and technique on the line of scrimmage, you can just
be a good defen by trying hard, like not a
great defense. Like you're probably not going to be top
ten in the league by just being locked in and

(13:38):
having effort in all those kinds of things. But I
think it's true in almost any sport that if you play,
if you are a fast, pursuit, relentless, good like tough, physical,
fundamentally sound defense, I still think that you're better than
thirtieth in the league in DVOA on defense just with that,

(13:59):
just with that alone, Yeah, And they don't do that.
They don't play that way. They're constantly pulled out and
drawn out of coverage areas, They're constantly you know, not
their run fits, and they're tackling and all that kind
of stuff is just it's totally falling off and totally
falling apart. So you look at all these things and
I still think that they are playing below their talent

(14:21):
level on defense and schematically. Like Greg Roman's a good
offensive coordinator, I don't think that Greg Roman is a
great pass game coordinator. He's a very very good run
game quarter Day, this game, they made Greg Roman in
the past game look like he was like, you know,
just unstoppable, right, you know, so it wasn't the run game.
If they were getting torched by like you know, Roman's

(14:43):
like run designs like that we've seen in Baltimore and
San Francisco and now at the Chargers, I would say, Okay,
you know, Greg Roman did his thing this week. This
was past game stuff like this was we know, you
guys are gonna be in man to man and we're
just gonna have a bunch of man beaters. And then
those times that you do play zone, like you're not
gonna be good enough in zone to stop us, right,

(15:03):
and so the fact that they don't have any sort
of right hand or or left hand excuse me, they
don't have any sort of counter defensively, These teams just
know they're gonna play man on third down. They know
they're gonna get man. They know that if they run
you know, tight splits, if they run bunch concepts, if
they run pick plays, if they just do all these

(15:24):
different things to beat man to man coverage that you
see all around the league, they are going to find success.
And just talking to some of the players after the
game on Sunday, you know, they basically said, it's just
really hard, Like it's really hard to go out there
and play man to man for four quarters when the
other team knows you're going to be playing man to man.
They have all these tricks and all these game plan
wrinkles ready for you to play man to man. And

(15:46):
my thought was, you know that that's a coaching like
that's adjusting right, like that's finding other ways to to
go ahead and play pass defense. And I just thought
that they are have become very predictable. Now could you
sit there and say that's that's talent that they don't have.
The they don't have guys that can play mann zone
and things like I guess, but I still feel like

(16:07):
they have better talent than what they've shown.

Speaker 3 (16:09):
Well, some of that, I think it's tie talent. Remember
we were doing shows at the beginning of the year
wondering why they weren't playing more man cover. Yeah, because
of the personnel.

Speaker 2 (16:15):
So I think that's tied too. But at the end
of the day, talents talent, Yeah, I had last thing
on the defense. I would just say, supposed to be
up and downs. We're gonna do it night now, Okay,
But I just wanted to wrap this up, put a
bow on this, this takedown of this entire game on
Sunday or Saturday. Do you realize how much they've struggled

(16:37):
to press their quarterback.

Speaker 3 (16:38):
Like it's I think this was another game where they
had no quarter They had one quarterback hit and it
was a penalty. It was a really bad penalty.

Speaker 2 (16:45):
Yeah, so they they are now thirtieth in the league
in team pressure rate. I'm actually surprised it's not thirty second, Like,
why I don't watch every single defense, every single snap
of every single defense is surprising. I don't even know
what those other teams are doing. But one of the
things that has really stood out to me is their
inability to manufacture pressure. Remember when they traded Matthew Judon,

(17:08):
the big quote was, we've done this in the past,
where we've manufactured pressure without a Chandler Jones or a
Matthew Judon or a stud pass presher, and we've been
able to get away with it. So last season under
Bill and Steve Belichick, they were first in the league
in unblocked pressure rate creating free runners at the quarterback

(17:30):
number one in the league. Nine point eight percent of
the time they were able to generate a free runner.
That has basically been cut in half. This year They're
had five point one percent. They're twenty fourth in the
league this season. So that again, that's all scheme right.
And in the very first third down of the game,
they blitzed Gonzo on a boundary blitz and the Chargers

(17:51):
just blocked it like it was just like they just
picked it up, like it was just it was totally
and completely ineffective, like the back just picked up. Gonzo
stood him up. No pressure on Herbert. He had a
picnic back there and made a throw and converted and
moved the chains that has been Alarming to me too
is the fact that they have had no they have

(18:13):
no sort of schematic ability to get after the quarterback
and any sense of the word. And I get like,
you know, you you wish that you could just do
it with a four men rush. Their four man rush,
they have the fewest sacks allowed, a fewest sacks generated
in the league from a four man rush. They've only
sacked the quarter back fourteen times. I'm surprised all year
with the four men rush's last in the league. So

(18:35):
they can't really just rush four and get home, that's
for sure. But they also haven't done a really great
job of manufacturing pressure as well. So if it is
this coaching staff and they are back next year, that
has to be the number one question. Is Okay, we
could go out and draft Abdul Carter and throw a
bag at you know, pass rushers in free agency or

(18:57):
something like that, and maybe just upgrade the talent and
hope that that improves. But to me, it's more complicated
than that. They have to figure out why are our
disguised rushes, like our blitzes, our simulated pressures things like that,
like why did those not work? Like what we do
we have a tell? Do we?

Speaker 4 (19:17):
Like?

Speaker 2 (19:17):
It almost feels like they have a tell. And I'm
not like advanced enough to figure out what the tell is,
but like, it almost feels like they have a tell
because every single time they run one of these like
simulated pressures or creepers or whatever, the disguised rush, it
just gets bocked. So like something is telling the offense
that this is coming. I don't know what, but I
have a big feeling that they have a tell.

Speaker 3 (19:38):
I can see it.

Speaker 2 (19:39):
Three up, three down? What's what are your Do you
have any ups? I do have two ups. I have
two ups as well.

Speaker 3 (19:46):
Okay, uh, number one is cold strange. Now, he wasn't
perfect in this game. He certainly wasn't perfect, but he
never even started a game at center in college. Yeah,
so to come into the NFL against a good defensive
front that the Chargers have, he had.

Speaker 2 (20:01):
He didn't have any bad snaps.

Speaker 3 (20:03):
He did have the one that was early late in
the game, and he was called for an illegal man
downfield at one point, but again for guys starting his
first game ever at center at this level, it certainly
could have been a lot where and also a guy
coming back from it was a very serious knee injuries,
starting his first game at center, in his first game
back for me very significant nee injury, hadn't played an

(20:24):
over a year, didn't have that many practices to get
ready for this game. It certainly could have been maybe
should have been a lot worse. I was very impressed
with what Cole Strange did. Does that mean he's the
center of the future after David Andrews.

Speaker 2 (20:35):
I don't know.

Speaker 3 (20:36):
I need to see a little more, but realistically, as
good of a start as you could ask for from
Cole Strange in that center role.

Speaker 2 (20:43):
Yeah, I thought he looked the part of the position.
I didn't think he was looked completely overwhelmed or out
of place or anything like that. Now, there were definitely
some issues with Blitz pickups and protections and things like that.
I mean, you know how many times is Derwin James
just gonna come in unblocked, right? Like? There has to
be ways that they can be better in that regard

(21:05):
with Cole Strange making the calls and things like that.
I would get venture to say that there were probably
some errors there by the pre snap processing of BOTZ
pickup and protections and things like that. And you know,
in the run game. I still felt like there were
times where he was getting out muscled by the DT's

(21:26):
on the Chargers, but I agree those were like sort
of my nip picks I guess of this game for him.
But I overall, I thought that it was encouraging, like,
let's see what this looks like after a full offseason
in training camp and just looking at David Andrews's injury history.
Love David Andrews, but he's had a lot of injuries.

(21:48):
At this point. I don't know if David Andrews is
gonna come back next year and be the same guy.
And I don't know if we're going to be in
a situation where we're two weeks into training camp and
he kind of realizes that he doesn't have it anymore, Right, Like,
I hope that's not the case, but you have to
prepare for that outcome, and maybe cold Strange is the

(22:08):
backup plan there.

Speaker 3 (22:09):
Yeah, I mean, at the very least, we'll see what
he does on Sunday, but at the very least you
have an option. I would still like to see them
take a center, maybe on day three, because even if
cold Strange is the guy, you now need his backup, right, But.

Speaker 2 (22:19):
It was he looked good for what it was. I
was impressed for what that was. Yeah, Okay, My number
one up in this game was Anthony Jennings. I did
two up. I did won an offense, one in defense.
Anthony Jennings I thought was the one guy that kind
of came to play on the defense. Had those two
run stuffs early in the game, very first play of
the game, stuff to a run to try to set

(22:42):
the tone a little bit. I also had him with
four quarterback pressures in this game. I thought this was
a nice bounced back game for him after he struggled
a little bit in Buffalo. And you know, I think
he's a solid player for them. Do I think he's
a game changer. No, but I think that he has
a role in the defense in the NFL, setting the edge,
playing first and second down, and they have something in
that in that respect.

Speaker 3 (23:03):
He's my other up.

Speaker 2 (23:04):
Okay. My other up was just Tomario Douglas because the
touchdown was the only offensive play they made all day
and it was really him, Like, not to take anything
away from Drake May, but it was he made the
hell of the catch.

Speaker 3 (23:16):
I'll get Drake May and Cole Strange gets some credit
to for like getting that free play, getting the snap off.
It's an unreal catch. I was attempted to put Douglas.
Who do you put the fault on on the blown
pitch plays it Douglas for not getting the spot in time,
or May for the toss to out in front of.

Speaker 2 (23:31):
Him, I put I would put it mostly on May.
I don't think it was a great toss, And I
also I am with you that in terms of the
design of the play, I didn't love that it was
a toss to begin with. Yeah, so the Bills ran
it as a toss on the goal line to Khalil Shakir,
But I don't know if it was supposed to be
a toss, it might have just ended up being a
toss because it just didn't hit exactly how they wanted

(23:53):
it to hit. Kind of similarly to this one. The
Lions always run this play as a handoff. It's a
straight handof.

Speaker 3 (24:00):
So most of the time when I see that play
as a toss, it's at the college level. Yeah, and
it's a little easier to do because you run it,
you motion the guy from the short side, so he's
not coming as far from the from the sideline with
the hashes being further out. I'm trying to remember if
I've seen as a toss in the NFL. I was
trying to find it. Sure I have, but in the
NFL that's usually a handoff play.

Speaker 2 (24:20):
Yeah, I thought that it should have been a handoff play,
and it didn't sound like it was ever supposed to
be a handoff play, Like I think that was a
toss all the way. Yeah, So yeah, I I didn't
put it on Douglas, and I thought again that his
touchdown catch and the adjustment that he made and the
catch that he made was in an incredible catch and
it was really the only offensive highlight of the game.
So yep, there you go, all right to the downs.

Speaker 3 (24:43):
So my biggest issue in this game was the situational defense. Yeah,
ten of seventeen on third down, the charges, ten of
seventeen on third down. They were good in the red zone,
they were good in the two minutes. The defense wasn't
good overall in this game, but it felt like every
single potential pivot moment you saw some of the worst

(25:04):
performances they had throughout the afternoon. Yeah, and that goes
to coaching, That goes to coaching, so that that was
the biggest thing that stood out to me. There's been
a lot made about the time of possession. Patriots had
the ball for under twenty minutes, by the way, s
their second such game this year. It's the first time
since at least the eighties that that's happened. Yeah, but
and a lot of people looked at that as the

(25:25):
offense and look, the offense couldn't stay on the field, certainly,
but some of that was the defense couldn't get off either.
They were some long drives in that game. Yeah, from
the Chargers. The situational defense was just not there.

Speaker 2 (25:35):
Yeah, I looked some of this up. I'm not a
big time of possession guy, as you could probably imagine.

Speaker 3 (25:40):
Well, have the Chargers ran seventy seven plays? Yeah, that's
an absurd now, as I'm saying, and I want to
double check.

Speaker 2 (25:47):
To defensive film, was thirty minutes seventy that's insane offense.

Speaker 3 (25:53):
You don't have teams that run seventy seven plays in
an overtime game.

Speaker 2 (25:56):
Yeah, so it's insane when you look at time of possession.
I think you know the reason why. You know, I'm
not big on time of possession Sometimes just because of
the context right of why you're on the field and
why you're not.

Speaker 3 (26:07):
Well, that's why I think play disparity fits at So yeah,
for the disparities point Chargers ran seventy seven plays, it's
not like it was a quick game.

Speaker 2 (26:14):
Patriots ran forty eight. Yeah. Yeah, So last year it
felt like the Patriots defense was on the field a
lot because of the offense, because they were good on
third down last year there I think they were ninth
in the league. I want to say on third down
and twenty three like they were. It wasn't because they
were letting teams extend drives all the time. Right this
year both have been a problem they have the offense

(26:35):
can't stay on the field and the defense can't get
off of it. The defense right now is bottom third
of the league. And third down I want to say
they're twenty fourth or one of them's twenty fourth and
one of them is twenty seventh. I don't know which
one's red zone and which one's third down off the
top of my head. So basically they're they're not good
on third down on defense. So now the problem is
is that the offense can't sustained drives but also the

(26:55):
defense can't get off the field, so some of this
time of possession stuff is self inflicted for the defense
this year. Maybe you couldn't say that in twenty two
and twenty three, but this year this is definitely some
self inflicted stuff on the defensive side. I went with
the player a couple of players, and then I had
one like sort of like what you just did. But
Number one down for me in this game is Jonathan Jones.

(27:17):
I mean, I hate to pick on Jonathan Jones because
I love Jonathan Jones, but eight catches, ninety one yards,
gave up a touchdown. You know, mcconkee just was too
good for him, Like he was just outclassed by Malconukee
in this game. That does not bode well to me
for John Jones long term. I know he's really good
against Shakir. He deserves his flowers for that. I gave

(27:38):
him to him last week. But it seems like this
has been more of what we've gotten from John Jones
this year than the Shakiir game. Kind of felt like
an outlier a little bit for him. And as we
start to talk about the draft and the offseason, I
don't know how you go into next year with Jonathan
Jones and Marcus Jones. Is your your number two and
number three corners? I think you need to upgrade the

(28:00):
number two cornerback spot and put the Joneses back in
the slot, like if the you know that. To me,
Jonathan Jones at this point is probably more of like
a safety corner. Like he's probably like a nickel or
a dime safety corner and you know, maybe plays a
little bit in the deep part of the field a
little more next year if he's back, I don't know
if his days of I'm gonna take this guy in

(28:22):
man to man coverage for four quarters, I don't know
if that is in him anymore. I think we might
have moved past that stage of his career. So just
from a bigger picture standpoint, not depict so much on
John Jones. I I feel like cornerback two is now
right on the list, you know, put it right in
the top five. Yeah, it's a it's a major need.

(28:42):
I agree with you. Yeah, all right, number two.

Speaker 3 (28:45):
Uh, Kyle Dugar And I feel like I have him
on it every week at this point, and is what
I get, He's battling through something, but he just can
there continues to be mistackles, miscoverage assignments, like a couple
of times a game where he is like it kind
of seems like teams are targeting him now, yeah, to
try to take advantage of him, and it's you hope
it's just the ankle and he comes back next year

(29:06):
looking more like the guy he was in twenty twenty three.
But this version of him is they he can't play
the role they needed to play.

Speaker 2 (29:14):
So his eyes are the problem to me right now.
And that's why I'm sure that some of the recovery
is being affected by the ankle. I mean, like, you know,
recovering when you're your fall step or you're you're a
little bit out of position. Some of that is probably
due to physical issues, but right now, his eyes just
seemed to constantly be in the wrong places in the
passing game. And yeah, he was a part of two

(29:36):
touchdowns in this game where I just felt like his
eyes are just not in the right places. You know,
mcconkee runs a really nifty route on the short touchdown
that he scored down in the red zone. I don't
know if I've necessarily seen that route before out of
that sort of look, so they kind of mimicked crossers,
you know, down in the red zone, and then he
like pivoted out of his crosser. It was pretty cool.

(29:56):
It was a great route. So that one I don't
necessarily kill Dugger for because that's just a fantastic route
and a really nice play design by the Chargers. That
to me goes back to the Chargers saw in film. Okay,
the Patriots in the red zone are going to switch
off these crossers, right, They're gonna be in man to
man and when the crosser runs across the field, he's
gonna pass it off to this free safety and then

(30:18):
replace the free safety. So they showed like McConkey was running,
the defender dropped off McConkie, and then mcconkee went back
out the other way. So that to me is coaching
like that was a game plan to wrinkle or play
that the Chargers had ready for how the Patriots handle
crossers in the low red zone. So I don't necessarily

(30:39):
put that as much on Dougger as I put it
on Mayo and Covington. But the McConkie forty yard touchdown,
I'm not one hundred percent sold that what coverage they
were in because Douggers eyes are in the backfield the
entire time, and he's like reading it almost like he's
in zone, like a hook or something like that over
the middle of the field. And then John Jones opens
like he has inside help and then mccauky just runs

(31:01):
right by him. And I don't know if Dougger was
supposed to help. I don't know if John Jones just
got beat. I kind of settled more towards John Jones
just got beat. But like again, it's just Dougger's eyes
are just locked into the backfield on the quarterback and
he has no spatial awareness of like that there's a
receiver running right by him right And the same thing
happened on the crossing route early in the game by

(31:22):
Davis where Austin thought he was passing and Dugger just
was not ready to pick it up. So right now,
to me, it's this is like he's in a mental
pretzel back there. And I think that for the Patriots
moving forward, I hate to keep adding needs to the list,
but like free safety, it just he's not a free stating.

Speaker 3 (31:43):
You know where I've been on this, Like they they
moved on from Devin mccordy with zero plan. Well, then
we're gonna play guys out of position.

Speaker 2 (31:50):
Yeah, we're gonna play like Peppers and Dugger.

Speaker 3 (31:52):
That was their planet left tackle, That's been their planing
at so many positions. We're just gonna play players we
trust out of position. But just because you trust a
guy doesn't mean he can play her position on the field.
So they need they need to find Like I was
texting about this guy the other night. You know how
high I am on this guy. Happened since his draft.
They need to find their Kirby Joseph.

Speaker 2 (32:08):
Yeah, he's a good play.

Speaker 3 (32:09):
That guy's a difference maker.

Speaker 2 (32:10):
It just feels like they were they were banking on
being interchangeable, like they were gonna be. They're probably thinking,
we're gonna go into more too high, you know, post
snap rotation. We're gonna start in too high. We're gonna rotate.
And they thought we could rotate either Dugger or Peppers
into the box. So because of we were going to

(32:31):
be a little bit more disguise heavy, we're gonna be
a little bit more deceptive of Okay, we could rotate
either way. So now you have to account for the
fact that you don't really know which way they're going.
But at the end of the day, somebody's got to
play off top, and somebody's got to be up top
on third down, and someone's gonna end up up top,
and if can that player play back there consistently well,

(32:53):
and I just don't think Kyle Duggar has been able
to do that, and teams know it. Teams are now
just hunting him, all right. Number three?

Speaker 3 (33:01):
Where'd I go here?

Speaker 2 (33:03):
Oh?

Speaker 3 (33:03):
I went in the wrong word. I thought we're doing
players offensive situationally again, same thing two for ten on
third downs. The few times they got in the red zone,
they couldn't get it going. Just the situational football in
this one was not there.

Speaker 2 (33:15):
It was not good. Yeah, fair enough. Number three for me,
I kind of went over it already with the pass
Russ stuff, A nineteen percent pressure eight. I think they
had nine pressure dropbacks on forty one attempts or forty
one drop backs by Justin Herbert just nowhere near him.
And this was in a mush rush. Compact the quarterback,
you know, compact the pocket, keep the quarterback in the pocket.

(33:36):
They came after him. They blitz them thirteen times, and
they did not get home. They got on thirteen blitzes.
They had one pressure on thirteen blitzes. Think about that.

Speaker 3 (33:45):
That's ridiculous.

Speaker 2 (33:46):
They pressured him one time, they blited them thirteen times.
That was way more than they blitzed Josh Allen, way
more than they blitzed Kyler Murray. Like, this was not
a we're going to keep the quarterback in the pocket game.
They wanted to rush Justin Herbert. They couldn't get to him,
that doubt. That's the bottom line. And their pass rush
just continues to create. All right, do you have any more?

(34:06):
I have one more go ahead, So I did put
Drake May on here. This was my worst graded game
for Drake May now, out of everybody involved in this
entire organization. Yeah, the one guy I'm going to absolve
sometimes right now is the rookie quarterback Like this is
there's a lot wrong with the situation around Drake May.
But I had him with the minus ten negative plays.

(34:28):
I had him with e turn over play obviously on
the toss you know, whatever the heck that was supposed
to be on the play to pop Douglas. I just
thought in this game, though, what bothered me a little
bit about the way he played, I thought he was
a little bit premature, Like leaving the pocket. I thought
he left the pocket early a handful of times, he said,
only once on the play he got his belt wrung on.

(34:50):
That was part of it. But even like the Derwin
James fifteen yard sack on fourth and two, him rolling
to his right and trying to run away from the
pressure felt very Caleb Williams to me, right, it just
didn't really see it. Pre Snap was caught a little
bit off guard by it. All he had to do.
He had Antonio Gibson in the flat like right behind

(35:10):
the blitz, Like all you had to do was hit
the back hot out of the blitz, right. And I
don't want to see him develop bad habits. That's the
last thing I want to see him do. And some
of these, you know, the teams now are just kind
of recognizing that he's going to leave the pocket if
you invite him to leave the pocket, and so they
kind of are to him about it. And this is

(35:32):
one thing that I'm going to nitpick him on, Like
he's got to play quarterback in these situations from the
pocket if they're gonna blitz him and they're gonna make
them hot and they're gonna charge him up, like he's
got to beat them with throwing the football, like make
a quick decisive decision and get the football out. I
thought there was three or four times in this game
where he had options against the Blitz and just kind

(35:52):
of froze on the last derwin James sack, and then
the other ones. Was just kind of running around and
don't I don't want to see him doing that that often.
So that was that.

Speaker 3 (36:01):
Yeah, not one of his better games. I just felt
like there was too much going on around him to
put him on the downs.

Speaker 2 (36:06):
But yeah, totally fair. All right, do you have any more? No,
it's it, okay, So let's let's do offseason. Let's talk
about this game on Sunday a little bit too. Not
about the strategy of you know x's and o's of
how they're gonna take down the Bill's backups, but where
do you stand.

Speaker 3 (36:22):
On Well, I have one thought on that, okay, And
I've been excited to give this take this week because
I think it's a fun take. Okay, everybody's talked about
and Alex Van Pelt said today Drake May is going
to start, which by the way he should. I think
I'm in the minority on this. I'm curious to hear
what you think of this. Okay, I'm okay that Drake
May is starting this game. Frankly, I think he should
start this game. I think it's important to the Patriots

(36:44):
organization that he starts this game. Now, I would do
exactly what the Bills are doing. Yeah, play him for
a series maybe two, mostly handoffs, take him out, But
I would do it for the same reason the Bills
are doing it. And I'm giving the Bills credit. Evans,
So you know, I feel strongly about ows Drake May.
We want Drake May to be face to the franchise,
one of the faces of the league, elite starting quarterback.

Speaker 2 (37:08):
Right.

Speaker 3 (37:08):
Ye, what do elite starting quarterbacks do more than anything else?
They start games? Play football, They play football, They start games.
They have Brady starting streak, Peyton Manning had that long
starting streak. That's why Alan's doing it. Let's say Drake
May becomes like awesome in five years, right, Yeah, don't
we want to kind of be hyping up how many
games in a row he own. He has to do
a better drum of protecting himself as a part is,

(37:29):
but like, yeah, it's gonna be weird. We have to
be like he started almost every game, but oh yeah,
there was that one at the end of the year
in Buffalo. And I think that matters to Drake May
because I think Drake May wants to be viewed like
a guy like Josh Allen. So if Josh Allen's going
to start this game, if the Bills can risk Josh
Allen for one series in order to extend his streak,
if we want Drake May to have that same standing,

(37:51):
start Drake May.

Speaker 2 (37:52):
I feel sly about this. I like it. I have
no problem with them starting. I have no problem with it.
Part two of the take.

Speaker 3 (38:00):
Everybody is acting like if Joe Milton plays the Patriots
automatically lose the game.

Speaker 2 (38:05):
Are you offended because he's your guy? Well you are,
you are a little bit.

Speaker 3 (38:09):
First of all, for that to happen, you also have to.

Speaker 2 (38:11):
Be became famous because you're Joe Milton line.

Speaker 3 (38:13):
I know. First of all, you also have to have
people like the defense has to do their part, right.

Speaker 2 (38:18):
Yeah.

Speaker 3 (38:19):
So I go back to and I've had fun bringing
this name up all week. Yeah, Matt Flynn, Yeah, Matt
Flynn in twenty eleven. Now it was the opposite situation.
The Packers were in the playoffs. They were where the
Bills are. They don't want to risk Aaron Rodgers. They
put in Matt Flynn to make his second career starts.
You know what his first career start was, You know
what game, d Condy. He was fine in that game,

(38:40):
he was fine. That was his third year in the league,
fourth year in the league. He makes his second start
Week seventeen against the Detroit Lions. Think about some of
the quarterbacks the Packers have had. Matt Flynn set every
single like all of the major single game passing records
for the Green Bay Packers four hundred and eighty year
contract he got from this six touchdowns against the Lions.

(39:01):
Now he was a free agent. Joe Milton's not. He
got what at the time was a significant contract. The
Seahawks are ready to name him the starter. Now he
lost out to a third round pick named Russell Wilson
in training camp, then bounced around. He was even here
at one point, But like, who's to say this isn't
a showcase game for Joe Milton. This is the packerway,
this is the thing.

Speaker 2 (39:21):
It's a fourth preseason.

Speaker 3 (39:22):
Right, You draft all these quarterbacks with the idea that
you can't have too many. If you end up with
a good one, they're worth something you can trade them.
So I don't know why we're all just assuming Joe
Milton's gonna go out there and be terrible. Yeah, And
that way he can be good and the Patriots can
still lose the game. We talked about the issues with
the defense. Mitchell Trubisky's a backup, but I was a
Paul or Fred who said earlier, like, he's not exactly

(39:42):
a low level backup. He's kind of bad you compare
to some of the other backups in the league. Fair enough, right,
he's Is he a top forty quarterback in the league. No,
you don't think so. I'd put him top forties or
forty two. I think he's one of the ten best
backups in the league.

Speaker 2 (39:58):
Okay, right, fair enough.

Speaker 3 (39:59):
So I'm just saying, don't run off Joe Milton.

Speaker 2 (40:04):
Fair enough. I'm not writing off Joe Milton. I also
think that there's absolutely zero tape on Joe Milton, and
the Bills will have no idea what the Patriots might
actually do with Joe Milton.

Speaker 3 (40:13):
So even when you have tape on Joe Milton, he
can still be kind of un predictable.

Speaker 2 (40:16):
I know, but I'm just saying, like, you know, it
could be a little unpredictable, yeah, right, when you have
a quarterback like that that's not played a single snap
all year. But I would start Drake May in this
game or don't have a problem. It's I probably I
don't know where I this, but this is where I
kind of wanted to go. Anyways, Like, you know, how
should they approach this game? Is really the only story

(40:36):
with this game, and I am I'll can't stress this enough.
They're not They're not gonna tank guys. They're not gonna
sign some quarterback off the street right and and play
him on Sunday to purposely lose them.

Speaker 3 (40:50):
They're not gonna be all right, you know, we're down
four with ten seconds to go, let's kick a field goal.

Speaker 4 (40:55):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (40:55):
Yeah, they're not gonna purposely lose the game. Okay, could
they just lose it out right? We've seen them lose thirteen.
Very possible. It's very possible.

Speaker 3 (41:03):
But no, you're not, especially because you've got to remember,
for all these players, they're either trying to when teams
evaluate players. They significantly wait games at the end of
the year more than they wait the games at the beginning.
They're not going to care about the circumstances in this
game when they do that, especially for guys who are
pending free agents or maybe aren't a lock to be

(41:24):
back here next year. They want to put on a
good tape because they want to keep their jobs in
the NFL. The same for the coaches. Jarrodmeo coaching for
his job, is Alex sant Pelt coaching for his job.
They're not Why would they help an organization get the
first overall pick when they don't know if they'll be
part of that organization when they make that pick. There's
no incentive there. The only one who has any incentive,
it's it's the general manager on up now. If Drod

(41:47):
Mayo has been told his job is safe, that could
factor in a little bit. If he knows, no matter
what happens, you're good. We want to pick. That's another conversation.
But it doesn't happen. Tanking does not happen on a
game day level.

Speaker 2 (42:02):
I just think that that is such a terrible look.
Like to your point, let's say they get the ball
back with like a minute and a half to go
within one score and they just kneel it out. Not happen, right,
it's not happy. You can't do that, And you know what,
it shouldn't.

Speaker 3 (42:14):
I don't you know, do you want people in your
organization that are not invested solely in winning games?

Speaker 2 (42:20):
You want apex competitors.

Speaker 3 (42:21):
I go back to the scene in the Last Dance
of Michael Jordan at the end of that last game
of his rookie year where they try to take them
off the floor because they're trying to get a better
draft pick, and he's losing his mind because he's like,
we have a game to win today. What are you
talking about?

Speaker 2 (42:33):
The draft?

Speaker 3 (42:34):
So you know, those are the kind of competitors you want.
I think Drake may may kind of be wired that way,
which is part of the reason I would let him
get the start, even if it's ceremonial. But yeah, that's
not gonna happen. Now that being said, the stakes themselves.
I heard you talking about this earlier when it comes
to the first overall pick.

Speaker 2 (42:50):
Well, let's get to that in a stade. Okay, all right,
last thing on this point of it. I've gone back
and forth on how much Drake may should play in
this game, because my biggest fear in the way that
things have gone in the last couple of years for
the Patriots, always thinking worst case scenario. Frankly, my biggest
fear is that there's you know, I heard you know

(43:12):
on your station a lot about like, well, he has
all off season to get to like recover from an injury. Yeah, Okay,
if he gets nicked up in the game and he
has a hand, you know, his hand, he stubs a finger,
sure he has plenty of time to get over that.
What happens if he blows out his knee, What happens
if he tears in a kill that's the kind of injury.
What happens if he separates his shoulder and now he

(43:34):
can't throw for four months?

Speaker 5 (43:35):
Right?

Speaker 2 (43:35):
Like what those types of things are derailing to an
entire off season that I fear. I worry about because
this is a huge off season for his development. This
is the year two leap right right that he should
be in the lab working with his whoever it is,
you know, Clyde Christensen or whoever he decides to work
with in the off season. That's who he worked with

(43:57):
pre draft and down at North Carolina, so I assume
it would be the same. He is supposed to be
in the gym working out, he's supposed to be throwing,
he's supposed to be working on his craft. He's supposed
to be working with receivers and having passing camps and
things like that with the receivers away from the facility.
If he isn't able to do all those things, and

(44:18):
god forbid, if he's at all limited in training camp
next year, yeah, that is very detrimental to your twenty
twenty five season. It could be detrimental to his whole career.
I don't need to be hyperbolic about it, but it could.
It could literally derail a lot of his development. So
that I have big, big fears about. But to segue,
what I don't have necessarily is big of a fear about.

(44:40):
And I think we might disagree a little bit on this.
I am not as gung ho or like married or
you know, inclined to need the number one overall pick.
I don't in this particular year. So if there was
a Trevor Lawrence, Caleb Williams, you know, level quarterback prospect, well,

(45:02):
in a couple of years, if there was that level
of quarterback prospect where you knew definitively that you were
going to get an absolute you know, Andrew Luck, that
you were going to get an absolute haul for the
number one overall pick. I'd feel very, very differently. But
I don't feel as though this is this draft. I
even if you do get the number one overall pick

(45:23):
and you do get a partner to trade down with,
I don't think it's gonna be at the same level.
I think it's gonna be a discounted sale. Now we'll
get to that the second because I'd still do it. Yeah,
I'd still do it, But I don't think that you're
going to get I don't even think you're gonna get
what the Bears got from Carolina a couple of years ago.
I know I think you will. I I we're close
to it.

Speaker 3 (45:42):
Just because it is the first overall pick, it does
have inherent value. And at the end of the day,
you don't need every team to love the top quarterback,
but you need to get No.

Speaker 2 (45:51):
You don't know, you don't do no.

Speaker 3 (45:53):
You just need one team and a really good negotiating.

Speaker 2 (45:55):
No, you absolutely need multiple teams. You need one team
a really good negotiating at least need the how many
facade of multiple how many teams were do you remember
how many teams were clamoring to get up for Bryce Young?

Speaker 3 (46:05):
It was like three?

Speaker 2 (46:06):
Okay, but that creates a market, like if you if
there's only one team, Let's say the only team that
has any interest in drafting Shador Sanders in the top
ten is the Vegas Raiders for obvious reasons. Yep, it's
been all over it right like that. He wants to say.

Speaker 3 (46:20):
If you look at it and you say that because
the Raiders are at eight right now, this is what
it costs for nine a couple of years ago, pay up.
And if the Raiders say, we won't, say fine, you're
not gonna have a quarterback.

Speaker 2 (46:30):
How do you know that they're not gonna have a quarterback? Though?

Speaker 3 (46:32):
Like Shure's not falling to nine if they don't find
not because should you think is gonna fall the nine?
You think we're gonna go eight picks without the court?
I'm sorry, this is not This has bugging the crap
out of me. It's not twenty twenty two. I think
these guys are not Kenny Pickett. Shad Sanders is such
a better prospect I think than Kenny Pickett was. I
think he's he's a significantly he's a lot closer.

Speaker 2 (46:52):
I'm not young than he is. To Kenny Pickett. I'm
not giving up anything for Sanders, He's a lot. If
I'm the Vegas Raiders.

Speaker 3 (46:59):
These teams are so dumb about quarterbacks.

Speaker 2 (47:01):
I hear you. But if I'm the Vegas Raiders, and
I'm not saying that I wouldn't put a package together.
But if I'm the Vegas Raiders, I'm putting together a
realistic package. Not what people want from a Patriots angle,
not multiple first round picks into the future. I'm putting
it together, a realistic package. And I'm saying to the Patriots,

(47:21):
if you don't want to take the deal, We're gonna
roll the dice, make the Giants take them second over.
And so all right, you want to talk about the Giants,
because I think the Giants are gonna do something different
if they keep table.

Speaker 3 (47:31):
I that clip of It's Shane, right, Joe Shane. Yeah,
that clip of Joe Shane essentially hanging up on Elliott
Wolf last year with the or Elliewolf hanging up on
Joe Shane with the offer for Drake May and Elliot
Wolf was a million percent right to do that. Yeah,
in New York Giants land, that clip is like Buckner

(47:55):
the ball going through Buckner's legs in eighty six to
Red Sox fans. Joe Shane has had to eat that
clip from fans from the media all year. If I'm
the page, because he didn't offer enough to make Because
he didn't offer enough to make the trade.

Speaker 2 (48:06):
I don't think anything was going to make him make
the trade. And I don't think so either. Like, obviously
I don't think so either. If he said if it
was you know, two three threes three two three three, right,
it would have to have been something crazy.

Speaker 3 (48:18):
But there's still a frustration that that wasn't made. And
we know NFL teams are reactive to public perception that
clip no team should ever do in season off season
hard knocks. Ever, again, that clip is going to sort
of be the obituary when the Giants move on from him.
That's gonna be a big part of it.

Speaker 2 (48:39):
Saying that he's never gonna sleep again if Saquon goes
to the Eagles, and then he goes to the Eagles,
and the point being like if I'm the Patriots.

Speaker 3 (48:47):
I'm reminding everybody, you want to risk passing on him,
you want to risk your job passing on the guy.

Speaker 2 (48:52):
I'm not telling the Patriots. I try. I just think
it's nuts.

Speaker 3 (48:58):
I don't know my theory, and I don't need to
kind of be in a hole about it. I think
there's a certain group of Patriots fans that want Travis
Hunter so bad but know it's kind of an irresponsible
pick that their argument is to prove that no pick
is good and there's nothing else the Patriots can do,
so they have to take Hunter. And I think that's
kind of where this quarterback stuff is coming from. Shadur

(49:18):
Sanders is a legitimate top five quarterback prospect. I think
cam Ward is a legitimate top five quarterback.

Speaker 2 (49:27):
A single person that that like a single draft you know,
analysts that does it year round, like Dame Brugler is
saying that he'd have been quarterback seven for him in
last year's draft, where Dane Bugler, JJ McCarthy, I don't remember,
but Hi high okay, but they all had him high,
like and where'd he go? Okay? Matt Miller just released
his like first round grades. He has twelve of them
this year, he said, you know, he doesn't have a lot.

(49:49):
Neither quarterback is on there. That's crazy. Should here Sanders before?
So last year, before uh deon kind of started talking
about who's going back to school when we were really
talking about Shoulder Sanders in that class, he was QB
four if not QB three. Okay, so you're gonna take
a guy that You're gonna take that guy number one overall,
not not just number one overall. You're gonna trade up

(50:10):
and you're gonna.

Speaker 3 (50:11):
Get yes, because teams are nuts about the quarterback position.
But that's so what happened, what happened between last year
and this year that should Her Sanders suddenly worse because
he got better.

Speaker 2 (50:22):
He got better between I.

Speaker 3 (50:23):
Don't know why everybody who he is, but no, but
he But so then what was he last year?

Speaker 2 (50:28):
Because it's night and day.

Speaker 3 (50:30):
He was talked about last year and he's being talked
about now and it doesn't line up with the product
on the field. I think everybody just wants to take
their weird victory lap that this draft class sucks. Is
it a great class?

Speaker 2 (50:40):
No, it's not.

Speaker 3 (50:40):
But that doesn't mean there's zero good players in it.
And that seems to be everybody's argument that you'd be
better off just not picking a player this year, And
it's mind blowing to me.

Speaker 2 (50:49):
I didn't say that. I didn't say you're better off
not picking a player. I do think you have to
be selective in a draft like this because there's a
lot of guys that, in my opinion, are low ceiling
maybe high floor, but low ceiling players, and you don't
want to pick a guy one to one overall who's like,
at best, is going to be like a functional NFL starter.

Speaker 3 (51:11):
Look right, I'm glad the Patriots didn't punt on quarterback
last year. I would not want to deal with this
quarterback class if I was a team. But there are
general managers, there are coaches out there that need a
quarterback to save their jobs. That is the nature of
the position in this league.

Speaker 2 (51:26):
But it's not just saving your job because you're willing,
is not just taking the quarterback. I believe that Shador
Sanders will go in the top ten. But if I,
first of all, if I'm the Giants at you, I'm
probably strongly considering like a Baker Mayfield Gino Smith type
of approach where I'm I might look in the veteran

(51:46):
market at a Sam Darnold. Yeah, or I might call
Minnesota and ask if JJ McCarthy is available. So all right,
let me ask you about this chapter said yesterday on ESPN,
J McCarthy is worth a first plus? What's worth more
JJ McCarthy or the first pick in the draft in

(52:06):
this year? It might be JJ McCarthy.

Speaker 3 (52:08):
How is a guy who was ranked behind Sanders last
year and has since I.

Speaker 2 (52:13):
Tore his acl who was ranking him behind Sanders?

Speaker 3 (52:16):
That was the I remember what the consensus was last
year when Sanders dropped out. We were talking about Sanders
in the same breath as May and Daniels and yes.

Speaker 2 (52:25):
We yes, we were, Yes we were. We were people
talked about. The table was talking about him in the
same breath as May and Daniel. I remember though, it
was certainly in the McCarthy knicks. Like you want to
make the argument that he was quarterback for next year
or last year, if you put him in last year's class,
I'm willing to let you make that argument, like you

(52:46):
would you would put him ahead of Penix.

Speaker 3 (52:49):
Everybody at Penis is a second round pick. Do you
not remember this?

Speaker 2 (52:52):
You were the one that didn't. So I'm trying to
give you credit.

Speaker 3 (52:55):
I know, and this is me telling you I have generally,
have I or have I not been generally? Will Levis
was another one. I was the one on here. Okay,
so furious that people are talking about but these guys
you that you were right on. You're telling me now
that Shador Sanders is worth the number one overall.

Speaker 2 (53:12):
Pick.

Speaker 3 (53:13):
I feel like he's not telling you. I'm not telling you.
I'm not telling you he's worth the number one overall.

Speaker 6 (53:17):
Pick.

Speaker 3 (53:18):
I'm telling you that generally have a pretty good understanding
of how the quarterback market is going to shake out.

Speaker 2 (53:22):
And I'm giving you your flowers for that. But I'm
also letting you know that the film is the film
and he is not the film was you cannot if
you're a general manager. And again I said, if I
was the Raiders and I really fell in love with Shador, okay,
I would offer a package to move up to number one.
I just wouldn't make the offer as good as it was.
Would have been a couple of years ago for better prospects,

(53:45):
right like I wouldn't have made the same offer that
the Bears made for the I keep doing that the
Panther's made for Bryce Young. If it was like Trevor
Lawrence's draft or Joe Burrow's draft or one of those situations,
I wouldn't go there. Like Joe Burrow, if like that
pick was for sale for the Bengals, like, that's like
an RG three type trade, right, Like that's like.

Speaker 3 (54:08):
Okay, So I'm not necessarily saying they'll get the same,
but I think they'll get something significant because again.

Speaker 2 (54:14):
The league is weird about quarterbacks. They don't really look
at the value of the player specifically himself.

Speaker 3 (54:21):
It's I need a quarterback to save my job. Who
is the best player available? That is often how the
league looks at it.

Speaker 2 (54:28):
Sanders is gonna Jam's going to kill you because you're
gonna go and you're gonna take Shador Sanders. He's not
gonna be good enough to change the course of your franchise.
And then the next year that takes over, he's gonna
have no future first round picks because you trained.

Speaker 3 (54:40):
And how many quarterbacks have been drafted in the exact
scenario you just laid out.

Speaker 2 (54:44):
So let me ask you this, because we're arguing. Okay, wait,
let me make one more point.

Speaker 3 (54:49):
Then I'll get to point of ultimately trying to get
to Okay, if the Patriots trade the first overall pick
for less than what JJ McCarthy goes for their nuts,
there's no reason a guy who has won last year
on his contract and just blew out his knee should
be worth more than the first overall pick in the
draft when the quarterback that's most likely to go there
was ranked ahead of him last year and we were
doing headdame, true, We're false.

Speaker 2 (55:10):
I don't know if he was ranked ahead. I think
that everybody's gonna say that JJ McCarthy was a better prospect.
I'm looking at it right now.

Speaker 3 (55:16):
The last big book, the last consensus big board from
last year that j Sanders was on, had him seventeenth.
I don't know where McCarthy was at that point, but
I don't think he was seventeenth.

Speaker 2 (55:25):
Okay, So let me ask you this, because we're gonna
argue on yeah, for the next six months about this subject.
Let me ask you this, what is a realistic trade
that you would accept as the Patriots, Because to me,
the realistic trade that I would look at is probably
obviously your swapping picks this year in the first round

(55:45):
I would get a twenty twenty five Day two pick,
like a second or third round pick this year, on
top of that a first round pick next year twenty
twenty six first, and maybe if you could pry it
out of them like a twenty twenty six third. So okay,
that well, So it's basically the Panthers Bears trade without
DJ Moore.

Speaker 3 (56:05):
So this goes to my take about Sunday's game. Yeah,
I the first getting the first overall pick this year
is not about this offseason.

Speaker 2 (56:19):
It's really about such a U take. Just listen. I'm
not saying you're wrong, but it's just it's.

Speaker 3 (56:24):
Really about because I this is what I this is
what you got to do all your film stuff all
year and.

Speaker 2 (56:29):
Talk about DV and whatever. Okay, and I mostly let.

Speaker 4 (56:33):
You do it.

Speaker 2 (56:34):
I like Sean McDonough by the way.

Speaker 3 (56:36):
I think he's good. Test the tour was awesome yesterday. Okay,
I know people don't like it.

Speaker 2 (56:39):
No one knows what we're talking about.

Speaker 3 (56:40):
Sunday is about the off season in twenty twenty six. Agreed,
it's they can do what they need to do this
off season without the first overall pick. Agree or disagree,
they can have the off season they need to have. Okay,
so when you talk about a trade, obviously you're you're
swapping picks, right, I'm getting whatever I get back. And

(57:00):
some of this is how far are you moving down?
You're moving to four, you move in to eight. Right.
The next ask for me is a future first. Yep,
that is the most important asset the Patriots can get.
Absolutely after that, and this is where I people think
maybe I'm trying to pump up the draft class more
than more than I should. My next ask after the
future first is a future second. Okay, that's I would

(57:24):
rather have a second, right, But I think I agree
with you. But isn't every isn't every GM gonna know
that the picks in twenty twenty six are more valuable. Well,
the idea would be, if you're drafting a quarterback, and
also one other take, you might get a haul for
Travis Hunter two. But if you're drafting a quarterback.

Speaker 2 (57:46):
Crazy.

Speaker 3 (57:46):
If you're drafting quarterback, the idea is you're going to
be better. You want to be the commanders, right, Yeah,
would you rather give up the thirty fifth pick in
this draft or the fifty fifth pick in next year's draft?

Speaker 2 (57:58):
Well? And we know that this is how it works.
You might think that the player at fifty five next
year is going to be better.

Speaker 3 (58:04):
Than Okay, so that it comes down to that, So
run me through your trade again.

Speaker 2 (58:08):
Okay, it's just again, it's just Yeah. Basically, the Bears
Panthers trade from a couple of years ago for Bryce
Young without Dj Moore. So it's swap your first ye
give a future first round pick, a second round pick
this year, and a third next year.

Speaker 3 (58:22):
So at that point what I would rather do, keep
the third and get a player I would rather get.

Speaker 2 (58:30):
I'd rather get a player too, Yeah, but not living
in La La Land. Yeah, I don't think the value
is necessarily there. Now, if you're telling me that the
player you're getting back is Jakobe Myers, like a good player,
but not a not Max Crosby.

Speaker 3 (58:48):
Well, so when we do the Raiders and am I've
looked at? Is Colton Miller?

Speaker 2 (58:52):
Sure? But I don't that one. I find really hard
to believe that they would do. He's a twenty nine
year old tackle, he's very good, and you're drafting a
rookie quarterback and now you're not gonna have a blindside
protector and you're not gonna have any assets to get one,
And I think, yeah, he's entering a contract here. Okay,
but again, like, where's your left tackle coming from?

Speaker 3 (59:11):
But are you gonna pay a thirty year old tack?
He's a pre agent, right, are you gonna pay a
thirty year old tackle?

Speaker 2 (59:16):
Just did it with Garret Bowles? All right, fair enough,
same scenario. So I think you're right. It's it's first, second,
first third.

Speaker 3 (59:23):
Yeah, Honestly, to me, even if you're like, let's say
it's the Giants, right, let's say you're moving down one spot, swap,
give me next year's first, I'm done. I don't need
any more picks in that I would.

Speaker 2 (59:35):
I would like a Day two pick. It doesn't I'd
like it. It doesn't have to be my full trade.
Like if you only get one more Day two back,
I'm okay. I am with you, though in general that
I'm not saying that you roll over in negotiations. But
I'm not necessarily gonna be too upset. You know, if
they take a little bit of a discount because of

(59:57):
the year, because of the draft class, I still would
do it. I still think it's more important to get
the package of picks to not do it at all.

Speaker 3 (01:00:05):
I think the prize here is twenty twenty twenty six.
If they get that and obviously swap, you can't move
out of the first round.

Speaker 2 (01:00:12):
The sea and I so the Fred and I got
in and I don't know how far.

Speaker 3 (01:00:17):
So there's two trades in the last twenty five years
of the first overall pick. One was the Bears Panthers
back time. Yeah, the Titans moved back to fifteen, right,
I think the furthest I go back is mate. So
so let's say the Raiders fall to nine, which is realistic. Yeah, first, second,
future first, and then one of Max Crosby or Colton Miller.

Speaker 2 (01:00:39):
That's a lot. That's a lot.

Speaker 3 (01:00:40):
But you're moving all the way back to nine. So
now you probably don't have a shot at Banks, Carter
or Campbell. If I'm going to pass on Banks, Carter
and Campbell, I need a ship player.

Speaker 2 (01:00:51):
I guess I'm not totally sold. You're so you're saying
goodbye to the to the two linemen.

Speaker 3 (01:00:55):
But at nine, yeah, okay, because I I think so, well,
let me put it this way, probably if if at
least one of them, but but if they fall that
far they're probably guards, at which point the Patriots probably
shouldn't be interested.

Speaker 2 (01:01:08):
Maybe. I mean, like Olufushanu went around there last year,
you know, like Telesia, but he was the third tackle. Yeah,
that's that's That's the rub about this class is that
there's not that talent. So that's so that's why I
wouldn't move that far.

Speaker 3 (01:01:22):
So that's why move wouldn't move that far down unless
I get like a player, right, because if you get
Colton Miller, I don't mind that I passed on Will
Campbell and Calvin Brice, right, so I know, but that's
just the point. Yeah, I would try to stay in
that four to five range. And if it's just swap
next year's first and and then maybe it's give me

(01:01:43):
a Day two pick this year next year second, third,
like whatever you throw that in, I'd probably be good
with that. The real prize is that twenty twenty five first,
twenty six first, and then if you really want to
get nuts and you really want to stretch this out, Evan,
you have two first next year you trade down from
one of those.

Speaker 2 (01:01:59):
Okay, we can get to that next you.

Speaker 3 (01:02:00):
Now, wait, Jeremiah Smith, Yeah, it is Jeremiah Smith like
everything you've ever wanted what we have.

Speaker 2 (01:02:08):
Is he your fair?

Speaker 3 (01:02:09):
All right?

Speaker 4 (01:02:09):
He is?

Speaker 2 (01:02:10):
He is?

Speaker 3 (01:02:11):
He already your favorite.

Speaker 2 (01:02:11):
Draft hospital We'll get it. We'll get to it.

Speaker 3 (01:02:14):
I want your Jeremiah say something nice about Jeremiah smith Man.

Speaker 2 (01:02:16):
There's too many things to say nice about Jeremiah Smith.

Speaker 3 (01:02:19):
I'm gonna make you choose between Jeremiah Smith and Ryan Williams.

Speaker 2 (01:02:22):
I think I already have a choice.

Speaker 6 (01:02:23):
Uh.

Speaker 2 (01:02:23):
Anyways, I I'm with you. I still do the trade
even if it is perceived, you know, perceived from relatively
speaking to other drafts as a little bit of a
of a discount, a little bit of pennies on the dollar.
I still think it's worth their while to do the
trade down because I don't. I hate, hate, hate the
idea of taking being forced into taking somebody one one

(01:02:47):
this year for the Patriots. I don't want to take
anybody at one one. I don't. I just don't. Travis
Hunter awesome talent, scares the crap out of me. Like,
what is he? Where does he play? What coaching staff
are you giving him to?

Speaker 4 (01:03:01):
Yeah?

Speaker 2 (01:03:01):
It just bad you've come around on that team. That
terrifies me. I still think he could play a receiver
in the league. I still lean towards him being a
better corner, but I think he's gonna want to play receive.

Speaker 3 (01:03:11):
Everything I've heard is the league is drafting him as
a corner.

Speaker 2 (01:03:14):
Yeah, but he wants to play receiver. I know he does,
but yeah, he wants to play both ways. Right, I'm
coming around if I had, like you know that that
guns your head, you have to take somebody one one.
I am coming around a little bit to Abdul Carter
because the biggest reason won Walker take it is a
little bit, but I think Abdul Carter has more college

(01:03:35):
production than Trayvon Walker did. I think the biggest reason why, though,
is because I I want a super athlete. If I'm
gonna have to draft somebody there, I want him to
at least be a unicorn athletically. And I do think
that Hunter and Abdul Carter both checked that box. So
at least there's that, But their projection is murky in
terms of Hunter especially, but even Carter. You know he's

(01:03:57):
gonna be like a six ' to two, two hundred
and forty five pound edge rusher, you know in this system,
like what He's not gonna set the edge right, Like,
it's not that he's not gonna be that kind of guy.
So how do they use him? You know, how do
they develop his pass rush toolbox? I think is really
big too, because he's still a little bit raw after
playing inside most of his career at Penn State and
then playing on the line of scrimmage mostly this year. Like,

(01:04:19):
he's still developing as a pass rusher. But the tools
are the tools. I mean, he's a shot out of
the cannon freak. But I still would just do the
trade down to your point of how far down would
you go? Yeah, I am trading down I and my
two targets. When in a trade down, yep, I would
love to say that Carter would still be on the

(01:04:41):
board for you. Like, let's say it goes you know,
quarterback hunter. You know, Mason Graham and Will Johnson are
still sitting there.

Speaker 3 (01:04:50):
I don't think Mason Graham's going before Abdell Carter.

Speaker 2 (01:04:53):
Probably not. So maybe if you're at like three or four,
you could maybe still talk about Abdol Carter being.

Speaker 3 (01:04:58):
Okay, if you're at four, you're gonna get one of.

Speaker 2 (01:05:03):
Carter Hunter, right, I truly believe that, So I like
that that's where I sort of.

Speaker 3 (01:05:07):
Like, I think three or four is the sweet spot.
I will remind people to the Browns do have all
their picks back? Yeah, after the now there may be
more of a day two quarterback team because they restructured
Rogers contract. We were talking so you I was talking
earlier about Drew Aller like that may be a landing
spot for Drew Aller. The other question in this because
I've been getting this a lot, and I asked you
off the air where you stand, but just for you

(01:05:28):
to give your take on the air.

Speaker 2 (01:05:29):
Can I give one more We're on that real quick. Yeah.
The two guys that I'm looking at right now for
the Patriots and Hunters his own thing, Like I think
Hunter is you need to be organizationally aligned to draft
a guy like Travis Hunter, that this is what he is,
this is how we're going to play him, this is
how we're going to manage it whatever. And frankly, with
the state of the Patriots, I'm not sure that that

(01:05:50):
organization that take a couple of weeks ago. So the
two guys on the it's a take, welcome to it.
What I'm looking at right now. Kelvin Banks, Abdul Carter,
right like, whichever one doesn't, whichever doesn't go your way
in free agency, right right, Like if you don't get
the pass rusher in free agency or you don't get

(01:06:10):
the tackle, whichever way it goes in free agency, I
think you have a plug and play starter on the
line or an impact past I'm with.

Speaker 3 (01:06:18):
I want a line of scrimmage player, one side the
ball or the other trenches out. Remind me where you're
at on Campbell.

Speaker 2 (01:06:24):
If his arms are checked off, then I'm in.

Speaker 3 (01:06:27):
But so would you put him in that group?

Speaker 2 (01:06:29):
If if he's even if it's like thirty two and
seven eight, just get me as close to thirty three
as you possibly can. I mean the clip that's going
around of his answer at the press, like, that guy's
just gonna be. He's gonna be an NFL football player
for a decade. I don't know if it's gonna be
inside or outside, but he's gonna make an offensive line better.
He's gonna be a captain. Like he's gonna be sounds
like Matthew McConaughey too. He's okay, he doesn't ad a

(01:06:51):
little bit. He's gonna be an absolute stud in your
locker room. In your on your football field everywhere. I
just don't know where on the football field he's gonna be.

Speaker 3 (01:07:02):
So I'm with you, and like, if they walk away
with Carter Banks and then Campbell with the astrisk with
the arms right, Yeah, if they walk away with Carter
Banks or tackle Will Campbell, Yeah that good.

Speaker 2 (01:07:15):
They did the job. Yeah.

Speaker 3 (01:07:16):
And then just if they get the first over but
they can do that without the first overall pick, which
goes back to my take of the first overall picks
really about the twenty twenty six offseason, not twenty twenty five.
So we're talking about spots to trade down, right, Tennessee
at two seems like a spot. Cleveland at three seems
like a spot. Giants at Fords it stands right now,
Vegas at eight, I wouldn't go down to ten. Maybe

(01:07:37):
New Orleans somehow slips a couple spots that I could
be quarterback team.

Speaker 2 (01:07:40):
Would you?

Speaker 3 (01:07:41):
And I'm not talking about Fred's trade, I'm talking about
swat picks, the trade we've been talking about. Would you
trade the first overall pick in the division to the
New York Jets.

Speaker 2 (01:07:50):
I lean towards yes, because I don't.

Speaker 3 (01:07:53):
Know you've changed your mind.

Speaker 2 (01:07:55):
Did I change them? Yeah, I text you about this
the other day. I always, I always, like, am inclined
to say no. But I don't really think very highly
of Shador and I kind of feel like giving him
to the Jets might actually be like kind of sabotaging
the Jets in a way. I would not do it.

Speaker 3 (01:08:12):
So maybe if the Jets were at like three, I would, Yeah,
on the off chance, or is a guy you put
an elite quarterback on your schedule twice a year for
ten years, there's no coming back.

Speaker 2 (01:08:24):
Now there's no coming back. I probably still say no,
but I do find it funny now that they could
hand him a overdrafted quarterback.

Speaker 3 (01:08:31):
Now, well, if I so, I made this joke yesterday
because you know my take on Will Howard, Right, that's
some NFLT. If you find out the Jets want Will
Howard find have the pick. But if that being said,
if I'm Elliott Wolf or whoever's in charge, right, I
am leaking to everybody everybody under the sun that I'm
taking the Jets call, and I'm taking the Jets call. Yeah,
and I'm using that to leverage these other teams. I'm

(01:08:54):
not trading it to the Jets, but I'm not letting
the Jets know that I'm not trading it to the Jets.

Speaker 2 (01:08:57):
All right, let's open it up because I know these
people have been waiting and we're getting inundated with emails.
That's the right word, right, We got lots of emails, Yes,
we got calls. We got lots of emails. So Bridgestone
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(01:09:43):
official for interest or of the New Old Patriots, I
will tell you marine that Bob's read is the cleanest
read we've ever had from Bob's That's how you write
out or read. That's how you know that somebody actually
read it out loud and said, is this going to
be a tongue pretzel or is this actually going to
come out clean? So good job, Bob's all right, let's
get to these phones because people have been waiting. Patty

(01:10:04):
is an aguam. What's up, Patty?

Speaker 7 (01:10:07):
What is up this afternoon?

Speaker 6 (01:10:09):
Gentlemen?

Speaker 2 (01:10:10):
How are we doing? All right?

Speaker 7 (01:10:11):
So Elevan your favorite time favorite discussion draft talk o kah.
First off, Alex, I gotta tell you you can't compare
that Packer's team to this Patriots team. That Packer's team
went fifteen to one and we are abysmal.

Speaker 3 (01:10:25):
Yeah, but when else am I gonna get to talk
about Matt Flynn?

Speaker 8 (01:10:29):
Good point?

Speaker 7 (01:10:30):
Good point? But you know that hey, that game made
that dude a lot of money, so it props to him.
So I just want to say one thing to you, Evan,
and then give you my the combos that I want.
Never underestimate how stupid the Raiders are. Evan. I don't
care that Tom Brady's in that organization. If Mark Davis

(01:10:50):
wants Shador Sanders and we're sitting there at one, I
would give it to him, you know, because I think
we can get a first round pick, like you were saying,
a future first round pick, swat picks, and a second
round pick this year, and that'd be good enough for me.
And I would take Banks if he's there. But I
want to come away with a combination of one of
these two players, either Banks and Jack Sawyer. I don't

(01:11:14):
care if you've got to trade up to the first
round to get him. But the guy I'm really I
really want now is Abdul Carter because our defense sucks.
And part of the reason why our defense sucks is
we cannot generate a pass rush and we need a
friggin dude, and that guy is a dude. Get him
and trade up and try and get Connolly. So if

(01:11:36):
we can get a combination of one of those two things,
I'll wike away from this draft happy. That's all I got.

Speaker 2 (01:11:41):
Thanks it takes I feel like this is starting to
become a little bit of group think, which is not
an insult, you know, Abdul Carter or Banks, and then
trading back up into the end of the first round
to get whatever you don't get right and I I
love to take And that's kind of where I am
settled at this point. I sent you my little offseason plan.
I think i'll tell you the next week. Jack was

(01:12:05):
in that role. He was really freaking. I thought he's
gonna be a second round pick after that game. Maybe not. Yeah,
he's ranked pretty low on our consensus website. I saw.

Speaker 3 (01:12:14):
I think they have an updated yet for yesterday's game.
He's gonna I threw that out.

Speaker 2 (01:12:18):
I was thinking of throwing that out there too, because
I like a couple of those guys. You know, I
don't feel like you could ever go wrong with drafting
talent from Ohio State, Like, do you know it's crazy?

Speaker 3 (01:12:27):
The two guys on Ohio State who are probably the
best NFL prospects, neither one of them is draft out.

Speaker 2 (01:12:32):
I will get to it in a second.

Speaker 3 (01:12:33):
Well, I want to know if you watch Caleb Downs too,
I don't think so. So if we're allow me for
a second, Okay, twenty twenty five draft, we're done.

Speaker 2 (01:12:42):
No.

Speaker 3 (01:12:43):
Number one for the Patriots on the twenty twenty six
draft board right now, and hopefully they're not picking this high.
But Caleb Downs what position is safety? He was like
Nick Saban's favorite, one of Nick Saban's favorite recruits ever.
And then when Sabin retired, he transferred to Ohio State
this year. Yeah, and he's like the guy. He does
everything on that Ohio State defense. He's the only he

(01:13:04):
was the only unanimous All American playing in the Rose
Bowl yesterday. But he's a true sophomore. If he was
in this draft, he's easily a top ten, probably a
top five pick.

Speaker 2 (01:13:11):
So I always, I'm always with the Buckeyes, right. I
feel like that's been almost neglected by the Patriots for
some probably weird like Ohio State bias Nate Abner. Yeah,
besides Nate Ebner, like we need some more Buckeyes here,
that's where the talent is.

Speaker 3 (01:13:26):
Well maybe if a Buckeyes head coach.

Speaker 2 (01:13:28):
So yeah, that's true. Jack Sawyer a maan, But yeah,
I really liked this idea in my opinion, and I
think they tried to pull it off last year and
they just couldn't do it. Of trading, you know, you're
gonna be at probably what thirty three, thirty four, thirty
five something like that at the top of the second round.
I would love to make two first round picks, especially

(01:13:49):
in a year like this where it's a really thin
draft at the top, like you might as well get
two guys that are you know, consensus, you know, first
rounders in this class. So there's a couple of guys
that fit that bill to me, you know, Connorly certainly
one of them if you don't get the tackle early,
and I have a couple of others, but I want
to save that for for recency bias here at the end.

(01:14:10):
But yeah, I'm with Patty about that trade up. I
feel like if you trade down, yeah, and then you
accumulate the assets, and then you use one of those
assets to then trade.

Speaker 3 (01:14:20):
Back up and they still right from the judn't trade,
so then you.

Speaker 2 (01:14:23):
Make two first round picks. All right, Sean is in Florida.
What's up Sean? Sean? Guys, Hey, how you doing.

Speaker 9 (01:14:31):
A great a happy New Year? I hope you both
had a happy hanakah.

Speaker 2 (01:14:36):
Thank you to Joan, you know, welcome well.

Speaker 9 (01:14:40):
I hear a lot of talk about Joe Milton playing
on Sunday, and it makes sense. One argument I haven't
heard yet is something I wanted to bring up that
we don't know if we're said it's going to be
back next year. So, like Alex, you mentioned the Bills
don't know much about Joe Milton to the Patriots. I
want to see if this guy can run our offense.

(01:15:01):
Can he be a backup next year? And Alex also,
I like you're trying to get to the twenty twenty
seven draft. I think that's going to be a good
one because the Patriots, let's face if they're not a
good team, they're not gonna be in playoffs in twenty
twenty five or twenty twenty six. So looking at not
just Jeremiah Smith, but also someone who'll probably see today

(01:15:24):
in Emitt Mosley, there's some gonna be some good receivers
and be nice to have awesome uh immunion to get
that pick again for the top one. So I'll let
you go and that thanks guys.

Speaker 2 (01:15:37):
Thanks Sean. So we've got a bunch of emails about
this because everybody is watching I'm sure the college football
playoff games yesterday. David and Madrid, who is a regular listener,
asked about this as well.

Speaker 3 (01:15:47):
When if I just say to his first point real quick, YEP,
that is another value of Joe Milton playing, you find
out if you need a backup quarterback this offseason. Yeah,
like with Cole strains, check another box before the offseason starts.

Speaker 2 (01:15:57):
Agreed, I'm for Joe Milton getting some time in this game. Uh,
David here says, you know, so we do have a
little bit of draft news.

Speaker 3 (01:16:06):
Okay, Jalen Milroe has officially declared. Oh geez, so there's
another quarterback on the board. I might have gone back
if I were him after that game this week. But
Evan wanted Alabama in the playoffs, so maybe he feels differently, but.

Speaker 2 (01:16:18):
I still feel the same way. I still would have
taken Alabama. They got a house by Michigan. Michigan.

Speaker 3 (01:16:23):
They didn't call home up Vanderbilt. They didn't care about
the game, cared enough to play everybody.

Speaker 2 (01:16:27):
Michigan didn't. Michigan played their backups. They weren't trying.

Speaker 3 (01:16:31):
Jayle should have been trying to be going to the draft.

Speaker 2 (01:16:34):
Just to just just to poke them, just to poke them.
So David and Madrid at calling in about the twenty
twenty seven draft as well, which is just I love
that our listeners are play ball with us on these
things and we actually talk about three drafts, from which
is is great.

Speaker 3 (01:16:49):
You know as much as anybody, how giddy Patriots fans
get about elite wide receiver prospects. There was a need
for a quarterback last year. There were three franchise quarterbacks
on the board, and you still had a large segment
of the fan base. They just want that receiver already
because it's been twenty or however long. Ranny Rady Moss
was right by the way twenty years. Marvin Harrison Bill

(01:17:12):
this generational. I'm not saying that was incorrect. Jeremiah Smith's
already better than you.

Speaker 2 (01:17:17):
Okay, So if for those that don't know, because some
people aren't paying a twenty to the twenty twenty seven draft,
I don't think those people are watching the show. Jeremiah
Smith on Ohio State, who's a true freshman nineteen year
old from Miami area somehow got out of the state
of Florida and went up to Ohio State. It's Ohio State,
Bryan Hartline and Jeremiah Smith. I was trying to I

(01:17:40):
looked this up actually last night, trying to rack my brain.
Jeremiah Smith, I don't think it's hyperbole to say is
the best true freshman receiver that's ever lived.

Speaker 3 (01:17:50):
He is the I'm trying to find who the first
too were. Jeremiah Smith is the third highest ranked recruit
in the history of twenty four to seven. And I
can't remember who the other two players are. I know
one of them is like on track to be an
NFL All of Famer and the other barely made it
in the NFL.

Speaker 2 (01:18:05):
But he is rare, rare.

Speaker 3 (01:18:10):
Remember last year he was saying Harrison was rare and
I was knocking it down. Everybody's saying these other guys.
I don't like to use generational Jeremiah Smith is why
because I need a proper way to talk about Jeremiah Smith.
Jeremiah Smith is different. If Jeremiah Smith was in the
NFL two day Evan at eighteen years old, he'd be
a top ten receiver.

Speaker 2 (01:18:29):
He would already be the best receiver on Patriots by
a country mile.

Speaker 3 (01:18:31):
In the NFL today, how many receivers are there better
than eighteen year old version Jeremiah Smith.

Speaker 2 (01:18:38):
I think he's probably a top fifteen receiver.

Speaker 3 (01:18:40):
So the way he was described to me by somebody
before the season started, because I'm looking at these things, Wow,
who's this recruit? Ohio State cut. The way he was
described to me was, you know how everybody drooled about
Marvin Harrison Junior. Imagine if Harrison Junior was a slightly
better route runner and ran a four four forty.

Speaker 2 (01:18:59):
Yeah, so there's been a lot of a lot of
Julio comparisons because they have similar measurables like six three
two fifteen. Also, let's just throw it out there, it's
insane that Jeremiah Smith at nineteen years old is six
three two fifteen. Like, that's absolutely stupid and absurd. I
don't know what he was fed as a child, but
it certainly wasn't the same food I was eating. I

(01:19:21):
would also just say that I don't I correct me.

Speaker 3 (01:19:24):
He is the highest rated recruit since twenty for twenty
four to seven, So he wasn't the second and highest
overall was a couple guys ahead of them.

Speaker 2 (01:19:32):
But I looked at some of the other really great
true freshman seasons of yesteryear. The thing is is that
as you would, you know, could attest to, yeah, true
freshmen didn't play like they do now, right, Like you know,
they weren't giving the opportunities. So like even like true
freshman Julio Jones didn't play a ton right out of

(01:19:52):
the gate at Alabama. Right, so those stats like Chris
Carter had like the freshman record for like the longest time,
it was like five hundred yards. Yeah, right, So this
it's changed, The landscape has changed about playing these guys
as early as they are. You know, Saban historically never
played freshman. Even Julio Jones had to earn playing time
and Saban's system, So it's not apples to apples, is

(01:20:13):
my point, comparing him to guys like that. Jamar Chase's
breakout season was his sophomore season, so he wasn't a
breakout freshman. It's pretty hard to find a breakout true
freshman on the level of Jeremiah Smith. You were teasing
me earlier. He's perfect. He's he's literally perfect. He's six
foot three something, two hundred and fifteen pounds, four to

(01:20:36):
four or below. I think he might be in the
fourth sie so well. He was running. He ran a
four to four in high school last year. Fantastic fastle
he wins at the catch point, his release, he can stack,
he can release off the line of scrimmage against press
man coverage. He's fantastic. He's unbelievable. Like I now do

(01:20:56):
I think you can plan ahead to the twenty twenty
seven draft to put yourself in a position to the
draft if you start trading down first round picks. Maybe,
I guess and theory, I don't know, that's some that's
some balls to like look that far ahead with your
job security where it's at right now for the people
in this building, but like in general, yeah, I mean, look,
he's he's the person that he reminds me of. He's

(01:21:16):
a little bigger than Jamar, but he moves a lot
to me like Jamar Chase, but is definitely more in
like the longer build. I like Jamar Chase. I want
to day is like six one six two. So Jeremiah
Smith a little bit bigger, but when I watch him
on film, he moves in and wins a lot.

Speaker 3 (01:21:35):
I'm on the Julio tray, I really am.

Speaker 2 (01:21:37):
Yeah, you can see that. I'm yeah. The other thing
is he's he is. I just have a tough time,
and I mean his great as tomorrow is I have
such a tough time comparing guys to Julio.

Speaker 3 (01:21:46):
On top of everything you just said, the one thing
that stands out to me watching him. His hands are
so big and so strong, it allows him to make
some absurd catches. You want the list of guys who
are higher rated recruits than Jeremiah Smith ever since two thousand,
So the highest rated high school recruit of all time
is Davian Clowney. Yeah, he freak Cyrus Kwan Joe. He

(01:22:07):
was a bust at Alabama. He got hurt a bunch,
Trevor Lawrence, Justin Fields, Brian Berzy, Bryce Young, Walker Little,
that's it.

Speaker 2 (01:22:14):
Those are some interesting ones.

Speaker 3 (01:22:16):
Yeah, he's tied with Fournette.

Speaker 2 (01:22:18):
Yeah, he's he's incredible. I said the thing about to Florida.
How that guy he grew up in Miami. Yeah, get
out of the state of Florida. One nil two.

Speaker 3 (01:22:29):
Ohio State has this poll where if you're an elite
receiver and you want to maximize we do you go play.

Speaker 2 (01:22:34):
For Brian Highy. He's the only recruit so high.

Speaker 3 (01:22:37):
He's the only recruit twenty four to seven, only wide
receiver recruit that's ever gotten six stars. So Doriel Beckham,
Doyl Green. Beckham was just below, Julio Jones was just below.

Speaker 2 (01:22:49):
But he's he's fantastic. I mean, I he's fantastic. I
have one more thought on it, but I want to
say it. No, what is it? No? No, no, I
want to say it.

Speaker 3 (01:22:57):
Are we gonna get like in this show or for
twenty twenty?

Speaker 2 (01:23:00):
No, No, in this show. It's just relevant to something else,
all right, Jesse? Is he in the car? Or is
he in Carolina? He's in the car. Jesse's in the car.
What's up? Jesse was in the car.

Speaker 5 (01:23:12):
I've been listening for a while, so now here awesome,
Thank you. One thing that I wanted to point out, Evan,
that I don't know that you're fully taking into account.
So it's gonna kind of support Alex's point of view.
But on these NFL execs, we're looking at the QB
class in.

Speaker 8 (01:23:29):
Two year increments, two cycles increments. So what is ahead
if you're one of these QB and needy teams Garrett Nussmeyer,
Drew Aller and John Matteir Right, I think some of
those teams are gonna get jumpy looking ahead, like you
can't go to twenty twenty seven as we're talking about
it for arch Manning, So I think there will be
a desire to get their most highly ranked, whether it's

(01:23:52):
ward for shador standers to move up for those picks,
because looking ahead, there's not like it's the class of
twenty twenty four where you see guys who are talented
and you could possibly wait. If you need your quarterback now,
you better get him now because he might not be
there next year. Question for you guys talking about trading
back into the first round if you trade down, thoughts
on Tyler Warren as a rock solid difference maker as.

Speaker 10 (01:24:16):
A pass catcher.

Speaker 2 (01:24:17):
Good cause we real quick on the quarterback line.

Speaker 3 (01:24:19):
So arch Manning is eligible next year, Yeah, assuming yours
goes to school, he'll start. But he's right after arch
Manning the projection right now, And Drew Aller's a wild
card here. I think Dre Allen might come out this
year after arch Manning next year's quarterback class. So I
said before like everybody's treating this year like it's twenty
twenty two, when it's not. If arch Manning doesn't come

(01:24:41):
out as junior, next year's class looks like twenty twenty two.
If you want a quarterback, get him now because you're
probably not gonna have a job then that twenty twenty
seven class rules. That's like, you know how much I
love DJ Loway and those guys, are you still gonna
have a job if you wait that long?

Speaker 2 (01:24:56):
Okay? So here's my take on the quarterbacks. And this
is just like a big picture take that I have. Yeah,
I wonder if there's gonna be more teams that are
going to look at the Seattle Seahawks with Gino Smith,
the Tampa Bay Buccaneers with Baker Mayfield, the Minnesota Vikings
with Sam Darnold, and they're going to say even like

(01:25:18):
to a lesser extent, but I still think it applies
the Detroit Lions with Jared Goff and are there gonna
look at it and say we could do something like
that instead of over rafting or trading a haul and
over drafting YadA, YadA, YadA. I just wonder if those
success stories change it all how the landscape is viewed

(01:25:41):
for like quote unquote bus in the first round, and
how does that impact this whole market? Like let's say,
you know, I don't have a great example I guess
off the top of my head of like who would
move in this in that type of scenario, But I
just would I would look at Donald in particular as
like a free agent, they obviously drafted JJ in the

(01:26:04):
first round. Like it's probably gonna be JJ McCarthy's team
at some point unless Donald like wins an MVP next
year or something like that. So what you know, what
team are the Giants for example, with Brian Dable, who
they know it does well with quarterbacks? Like would they
just pay Donald like a bridgy franchise quarterback deal instead
and then buy themselves some time to draft.

Speaker 3 (01:26:25):
Donald's an interesting one. I think one of these quarterback
teams will end up with Donald McCarthy. By the way,
if Viking should trade JJ McCarthy, that's how I feel,
maybe a surprise. But for every Geno Smith, how many
times are you gonna get Kirk Cousins or Aaron Rodgers.
But the difference be Derek Carr Russell Wilson.

Speaker 2 (01:26:47):
The difference between all those examples, though, is their age obviously, right,
Like I'm talking about Derek Carr. Derek Carr is still
older than like Baker was. Like Gino is a good
comp for those guys, I suppose, but like the Donald
Baker comp is darnold contract, So Donald is legit. Donald.
The Jets quit on too, early.

Speaker 3 (01:27:05):
I think although that that situation in Minnesota is fantastic.
Who's okay, so that's one team, Who's next.

Speaker 2 (01:27:12):
I'm gonna I'm looking at it because I'm trying to
figure out like to make my take hold, I have
to find right have my point.

Speaker 3 (01:27:18):
I don't think that that maybe works for one team.
There's five or six quarterback needy teams and that's just
at the top of the draft. You also have to
consider the Seahawks may want a quarterback, the Steelers may
want a quarterback. Teams like die. So now, if you
want to go there enough, if you want to like
the group of guys you're talking about here, Evan, are
the twenty twenty one class. You're talking about Mac Jones,

(01:27:39):
you're talking about Justin Fields, you're talking about Zach Wilson.
That's what you're talking about. Are you really gonna risk put?
Would you rather go that route, especially some of these
teams that don't have the talent that the Detroit Lions do.
And the other thing is, and we know this all
too well because of what just happened here in New England.
You signed Sam Darnold. That changes the football team you

(01:28:01):
draft sder Sanders in the top five. You draft cam
Ward in the top five, that changes the organization, That
changes the franchise. You're not gonna get the buzz. Maybe
Donald again, but who's that next guy? Who really is
the next veteran name. I just you're not gonna get
the organizational pop signing a veteran that you do. And

(01:28:24):
the if you have a high pick, if you're scheduled
to pick in the top five to sixty seven, as
we talked about last year, the owner is an involved
to an extent at that point, and you now have
to sell the owner on well, look at what all
these teams last year with their rookie quarterbacks did.

Speaker 2 (01:28:38):
Okay, but you could also say look at look at
the Vikings, like the Vikings are going to potentially be
the number one seed in the playoff.

Speaker 3 (01:28:45):
But that was a slow burn, that was not I just.

Speaker 2 (01:28:48):
Look at it, and I think you didn't have people.

Speaker 3 (01:28:50):
Line to buy Sam Donald Jerseys.

Speaker 2 (01:28:52):
I know, but we have a fifty to fifty hit
rate with these quarterbacks in the first round. For every
for every Jaden Daniels and Drake May and Bo Nicks,
there is a you know we know all of them
right then, you know that there's there's a bust, right,
there's a Zach Wilson, there's you know, there's a Mac Jones.
Like this could go either way in the draft.

Speaker 3 (01:29:09):
I know your plan is to sign Zach Wilson or
mac Jones instead.

Speaker 2 (01:29:13):
No, yeah, I hear you do different. That's one team one.
I get it. There's a difference between. There's not like
a great pivot. I would say Donald to the Giants though,
to me just feels really uh doable, Like I feel
like if if Dable stays, so you feel good about
the development and the play calling and all that, and

(01:29:33):
the offensive side of the ball. You have the league
neighbors for him, like you obviously use the number two
overall pick or whatever pick they end up with, four two,
whatever you draft, you know, help to help him out
even more. You know, maybe that's a tech McMillan team,
maybe that's a tackle team. Whatever.

Speaker 3 (01:29:50):
So now the Patriots called Tennessee Titans, or the Cleveland
Browns or the Las Vegas Raiders. Sure you didn't get
who did not get Sam Donald?

Speaker 2 (01:29:58):
Right? But Sam Donald's and now those teams are more
desperate because there's one guy off the Okay, let me
give you another name, Okay, because I just to have fun.
Rock Purty well does his elbow work? Assume it works.

Speaker 3 (01:30:13):
All right? Would you rarely rather have Brock Purty than
Shur Sanders.

Speaker 2 (01:30:17):
Yes, you of all people would yes, because at least
at least I have that Brock Party can play in
the line.

Speaker 3 (01:30:23):
I saw enough of what Brock Party looks like this
year without the monstars around him.

Speaker 2 (01:30:27):
On offense, he actually I thought he played better this
year than he did last year. I don't think so.
I think you did. I think last year he was
just surrounded by freaking monstars. Like you just said, this
year he actually had to elevate a little bit and
actually think he played better. How many games they went? Yeah,
I'm not saying they won a ton, but I actually
thought that his film and his play was better.

Speaker 3 (01:30:44):
So and again, now you have to sell the owner on.
You're gonna get people line up around the block for
Brock Purty jerseys in Las Vegas.

Speaker 2 (01:30:52):
The Raiders may be able to sell those better off
with that. Like I just again, I'm just not high
on the quarterback class. You're building a brand new stadium
in Tennessee. Oh my god, you're building that to put
put Brock Party in the middle of it. Yeah, you
can as opposed to went to a super Bowl and
has been pretty good. Oh so now we're giving brock

(01:31:13):
Purty credit for that super Bowl because not given Brock
Party the reason why I brought out up. All right,
So then you know who's a free agent, Jimmy Garoppolo. No,
come on. The reason why I brought up brock Party
is because one, I just wanted to bring up Brock
Party because I knew it would be funny. But two,
you and I both know that there's a chance that
Kyle Shanahan looks at brock Purty and says, you want

(01:31:34):
me to pay you how much?

Speaker 3 (01:31:35):
You know, the Brock Party might be gone. That's very real,
all right. I still he's not gonna move on from
Brock Party this year, still has one more year in
his contract.

Speaker 2 (01:31:43):
Yeah, but he wants he needs that extension, and the Niners,
I am not sold, are going to give him that.

Speaker 3 (01:31:47):
I think there's a real chance he ends up being
a lame duck starting quarterback for them.

Speaker 2 (01:31:51):
It could happened, and he could get like a Daniel
Jones type extension where it's like really a two year deal.
But it's disguised as like a four year you know, uh,
mega quarterback. You're if that's what NFL teams want to do,
that's what they want to do. But I'm just telling
you that I feel like the reclamation project thing is
in right now.

Speaker 3 (01:32:10):
It is, but there are not five serious reclamation quarterbacks Tennessee, Cleveland,
the Giants, the Jets aren't gonna do a reclamation They
just did that, the Raiders in the Saints. If you
can give me five quarterbacks more that are a better
option than Shouldur Sanders, I'll agree with your take.

Speaker 2 (01:32:29):
But should Sanders can only go to one team to
do the Sam Donald.

Speaker 3 (01:32:33):
They trade, So the Patriots only need one team that
they're not trading the pick to three different teams.

Speaker 2 (01:32:36):
No, but they need at least two teams to be
interested in the pick. They only need one. They don't
they need at least two as that's not how markets work.

Speaker 3 (01:32:45):
But tea, but you're not gonna if somebody wants if
somebody views Sanders a franchise quarterback, they are going to
trade up, right.

Speaker 2 (01:32:54):
You think that a team that no, like let's say
it's a team that's at four or three or four
or five and they know that. Yeah, they want Shador Sanders,
but nobody else freaking does you think that they're gonna
just trade a package to the Patriots.

Speaker 3 (01:33:07):
Just because because maybe some of these teams don't want
Sanders at one, but they take them at three or four.

Speaker 2 (01:33:13):
Okay, but what if that team's already had, like well.

Speaker 3 (01:33:16):
The Cleveland Browns are a fascinating wild card.

Speaker 2 (01:33:18):
Somebody needs to say, Okay, this team is picking two.
Tennessee is picking second overall and as a quarterback team,
and will take Shador Sanders if if the Patriots don't
trade out of that pick, and that's how you create
the market, right you need but you need that to exist.
Like if the Titans so again, Sam Darnold, then it
doesn't work.

Speaker 3 (01:33:37):
So you only need one team plus the Titans. I
don't think the Titans are going the veteran route. They
they have not invested in that position seriously in a
long time.

Speaker 2 (01:33:44):
Except the real guys. It didn't work.

Speaker 3 (01:33:46):
It clearly didn't work, and deep weren't happy with that
pick at the time that they half measured it.

Speaker 2 (01:33:50):
Okay, let's well, no, you had a chance.

Speaker 3 (01:33:52):
Talk about you, guy, Tyler Warren there, Oh yeah, I
do like Tyler Warren a lot.

Speaker 2 (01:33:56):
Here's my reservation with Tyler Tyler Warren, and I hate
to hold this against him, but it's kind of like
the tight end thing in general. To me, building an
offense around a tight end is just different than building
it around receivers, and you need that tight end to
be Gronk Kelsey level. Good. Well, what if to make
it T Higgins DK Metcalf kind of guy. Sure, if

(01:34:18):
there's multiple pieces to this. So I know you were
you were big.

Speaker 3 (01:34:20):
You were talking earlier about get TK metcalfevery you know,
trade for DK Metcalf and then move up into the
first or hope in the second that like in Mecha
Buca falls you right, Yeah, could you do that playing
with Tyler Warren?

Speaker 2 (01:34:35):
Yeah, yes, you can trade back up for Tyler Warren.

Speaker 3 (01:34:37):
I'll tell you my issue with Tyler Warren. Okay, I
think he's gonna go too early to real estately trade
back up in the first round.

Speaker 2 (01:34:42):
Yeah, especially well.

Speaker 3 (01:34:44):
He's listed at six six, two sixty, which is part
of what makes him so impressive. Yeah, he might get
to the combine and be like two forty five, So
we'll see there, but he he I don't think he's
go'n be a top fifteen pick. I think he's gonna
be top twenty.

Speaker 2 (01:34:57):
He moves like a smaller guy, but he has the
physicality of the bigger guy. Still. This isn't Travis Kelsey,
who plays like a right So that's the thing.

Speaker 3 (01:35:06):
One like he can walk in for I was gonna
he'll block, he'll play, he'll do the dirty work. The
Travis ke This is not always a wide receiver, but
he's big, so call the tight end. This is a
true three down, well rounded tight end. Yeah. The other
thing he is going for him copycat league. How many
teams around the league you think are locking their chops
looking at it and going, I'd love to get myself
a brock Bowers. This is the guy.

Speaker 2 (01:35:27):
So I'm not it's not fair to brock Bowers because
he's been awesome. Yeah, but it sort of speaks to
my point. He just hasn't impacted that offense at all.
Like he's He's put up great numbers, but the offense
isn't any better. And that and that's mostly because they
don't have a quarterback. Like I'm not. It's not necessarily
solely a brock Bauers problem because like you could say,

(01:35:48):
although to be fair, like couldn't I say the same
thing about Malik. I was just about to say that
you could say, they probably say something similar to Melik
neighbors as well. But I just think from a coaching standpoint,
if you're trying a game plan team that has a
really really good tight end, I unless again, unless he's
Gronk Kelsey that kind of level, I do think that

(01:36:09):
it is. It's just harder to build it out from there,
right most of the time, Like tight ends are eight
hundred yards a year, you know. And and the thing
that I worry about with Tyler Warren is like, you know,
I don't think he's gonna be as bad, but like
Kyle Pitt's right was supposed to like change the revolution
of tight ends and everything, you know, TJ. Hockinson, who

(01:36:32):
I thought was a great prospect coming out like that,
this happens with tight ends. OJ Howard, Like these guys
get overdrafted a little bit. But I do like the player.
I'm not trying to kill the player. I just I
always am weary of Okay, we're going to build around
a tight end, like you better hope that that's a
generational tight end. You better hope that guy's really good.
All right, Tie in North Carolina is on the line.

(01:36:54):
What's up? Tie?

Speaker 10 (01:36:57):
Hey?

Speaker 6 (01:36:57):
What's up?

Speaker 4 (01:36:57):
Guys?

Speaker 11 (01:36:58):
Wanted the change tracks real quick from draft talking talk
a little bit about coach Mayo. One thing I haven't
really heard too much talked about is just the fact
that he knew that he was going to be the
Patriots ed coach. I know he took over a year
before he was expected to, but he knew that he
was going to be taken over for Bill and for
this year to look the way that it has has

(01:37:20):
just been really disappointing. And I think that there's just
way too momentum involved with hiring a coach variable in
the offseason and using that to bring in free against
and then also work the draft, trade back, get as
many assets and and build forward. I just want to
get your guys thoughts on that.

Speaker 2 (01:37:39):
Yeah, TDD, thanks for the call. I would say the
biggest criticism beyond the micro level stuff that we can pick,
you know, the scheme and all that messaging and uh,
the biggest criticism that I have with Gerrodmeo uh so
far has been that I don't think that he was
at all prepared to build a staff when he got hired.

(01:38:00):
And when you look at a lot of these other
coaches around the league, when they get the job, they
know who their OC is going to be, they know
who their DC is going to be, and it almost
is coming as a package. Like part of the interview
is who are going to be your high level assistant?

Speaker 3 (01:38:17):
You'd lay out, this is who I'm bringing with.

Speaker 2 (01:38:19):
Right, and so you know a couple of examples, Raheem
Morris in Atlanta. Raheem Morris knew that Zach Robinson was
coming with him from LA Right, he knew Zach Robinson
is my OC pick, He's my guy. Jim Harbaugh came
with two coordinators that have all sorts of ties to
the Harbas right, Greg Roman and Jesse Minter who was

(01:38:40):
at Michigan with him. He had his coordinators locked and
ready to go. Part of that is because Girod's only
worked for one organization and there wasn't an obvious OC
unless they kept O'Brien like, there wasn't an obvious OC
for him to go after within the walls. But it
just that would be my one criticism. I think the
one really strong pitch other than the obvious of the

(01:39:03):
experience that he has. The strong pitch for Rabel and
going that direction is that my guess is that Rabel
has spent the last year poking around to see who
he would come with him to his next stop. So
he's gonna come probably turnkey, like he's going to have. Yeah,
head coach is going to be him. I would actually

(01:39:24):
even say that there's a chance that he already has
a personnel guy that he would favor offensive coordinator, defensive coordinator,
special teams coordinator, probably some high level assistants that are
already on his radar as well. That's very appealing. It's
very appealing to have that turnkey situation. And this never
felt like this. They interviewed like fifteen offensive coordinator candidates

(01:39:46):
and settled on Alex van Pelt. DeMarcus Comington was an
internal promotion, obviously, but that one even felt like he
was maybe a year or two early to get that
kind of job. It just didn't feel like the staff
was in great shape from the jump. So, yeah, it
is appealing. You can't deny that it's appealing to just

(01:40:07):
go out there and get a guy like Rabel who
you know is going to be a turnkey staff and
that's a decision they are gonna have to make.

Speaker 3 (01:40:13):
Well, that's why I've had this take, like, if they
are going to move on from Drod Mayo, right, I've
seen people say you need an offensive coach or Drake
may more than offensive versus defensive. I just want a
guy with previous experience.

Speaker 11 (01:40:23):
Yeah.

Speaker 3 (01:40:23):
I don't think replacing a rookie head coach with another
rookie head coach solves the problems you're trying to solve it. Like,
I'm kind of out on Ben Johnson because we know
he can design an offense and we know he can
be great in that regard and all that, But can
he command a locker room? Can he do the game
planning element of it? Can he handle the pressers and
things like that? I think experience If they are moving

(01:40:43):
on from Ao, what should the next guy have? Issue
Number one? From his experience, you figure it out on
either side of the ball. After that, with coordinators and
the fact Vrabel might come with Josh McDaniels, who's not
a flight risk, is certainly in a unique intriguing trait.
We talked about this last year, But yeah, I experience
should be the number one concern if they are going

(01:41:04):
to add a new head coach above all else experience.

Speaker 2 (01:41:07):
And I've come I think this is, you know, doing
side of the street. I've come around to the whole
idea of like, you know, culture building and building a
football program. Like I feel and maybe it's just because
Jim Harbaugh was just here, Yeah, but it feels as though,
you know that has become even more important in a

(01:41:28):
lot of cases than he calls offensive place.

Speaker 3 (01:41:31):
Well, look, your point about that is, well, you want
an offensive coach because him and the quarterback can grow
together and all that. But if you have a head coach,
and this is where Dan Campbell comes in, This is
where Dan Campbell's really gonna get put to Dan Campbell's
are well, this is where he'll get put to the
test this offseason. A big part of the reason Dan
Campbell is good is Ben Johnson and Aaron Glenn are
amazing at what they do. Doesn't mean they'll be good
head coaches, but what they do they're amazing at. They're

(01:41:53):
both probably gonna leave this offseason. Does Dan Campbell have
a pipeline in place? For get developing players, can you
develop coaches? That's part of the reason it worked here
for so long there was always the next guy up.
And realistically, if your offensive coordinator moves on right and
you replace with the quarterbacks coach, are you replacing with
the tight ends coach, you replacement with the passing and coordinator.
The guys in your pipeline are not going to run

(01:42:14):
a wildly different offense. So as long as you can
keep a pipeline and continue hiring from within, the concept
of your offensive coordinator moving on every two or three
years really isn't as scary as it otherwise would be.

Speaker 2 (01:42:28):
So especially if your quarterback gets to the point where he's.

Speaker 3 (01:42:31):
Right and four or five years in if becomes irrelevant.

Speaker 2 (01:42:33):
So, you know, Josh Allen, like they they kind of
screwed up with Mercy, but he's so good that he
just kind of persevered through it, and they got it
right with Joe Brady, so it ended up not mattering.

Speaker 3 (01:42:43):
So for me, it's it's like, if your coach can
develop coaches, yeah, it doesn't really matter what side of
the ball he's on, and I trust for able to
be able to do that.

Speaker 2 (01:42:52):
There's a couple of guys in the UH in the
Lions staff who was the tight Ends coach that interviewed
around last year for OC jobs, if interviewed here, right, Yeah,
it'd be interesting to see, uh if if those guys
can can coach, like and it's that thing you have
an agreement.

Speaker 3 (01:43:07):
It's like I you know, I developed you, I worked
with you, so you just have to leave me one
or two guys when you take your new job. So
that uh Steve Hyden, No, yeah, that's their tight Ends.
It was Steve Hyden.

Speaker 2 (01:43:18):
Oh no, I think it was somebody else. I'm thinking
of it.

Speaker 3 (01:43:20):
You were thinking of em Tanner Engstrid, Yeah, that he
is their pass games.

Speaker 2 (01:43:26):
Yeah, he was the tight Ends coach a couple of
years ago. But he's the guy that that seems to be.

Speaker 3 (01:43:30):
You just you just keep that pipeline stocked and it's
gonna matter a lot less than you thought.

Speaker 2 (01:43:34):
Yep, all right, Mark is in Connecticut. What's that Mark?

Speaker 6 (01:43:39):
Hey, guys, just said two quick things for you. First
of all, happy New year, guys, And first questions for Alex, So, Alex,
I'm not understanding what Gaine now. NBC Sports Squasson talked
about it a lot. What gain do you have by
putting Drake mate out there? Other than getting him a

(01:44:00):
little more experienced. I mean, he's already hurt. You know,
you're really just you're throwing him out there to accomplish
what I mean. The Buffalo Bills are going to have
their backups out there, most of them. I mean, Josh
Allen's gonna come out for a series maybe and then
that's right.

Speaker 3 (01:44:14):
So why can't he do the same thing as Josh Allen?
That's my whole point. Come out, hand it off a
couple times. He's your franchise quarterback. Franchise quarterback, start games.

Speaker 6 (01:44:21):
If he gets hurt and then he can't start the
next season, that's that's more.

Speaker 7 (01:44:25):
Of the thing.

Speaker 3 (01:44:25):
What if Josh Allen gets hurt, do you disagree with
the Bills starting Josh Allen?

Speaker 2 (01:44:30):
Josh Allen's going to turn around and hand the ball.
That's what I'm saying. Why can't Drake May do that?

Speaker 11 (01:44:33):
Well?

Speaker 6 (01:44:34):
Then yeah, yeah, ok, I guess you can.

Speaker 3 (01:44:36):
Right. That's that's all I'm not saying, Start Drake May
and have him dropped back fifty times. I'm saying, franchise,
this is what franchise quarterbacks do. He wants to be
viewed on that same level you as an organization want
and viewed on that same level. Let him go out there,
hand off a couple of times and take him out
because that's what star quarterbacks do in this league, and
you're trying to turn him into a star.

Speaker 6 (01:44:57):
Absolutely, And then the second thing was for Evan. I'm
just very disappointed in Gerard Mayo, his communication all year
with the media. I mean just his just in game
decisions have just it hasn't gotten better at all throughout
the year, and you should see progress and you haven't. Now.

(01:45:19):
I think Mike Rabel is the answer in everybody else
has been calling up talking about it as well. When
he can bring a staff in and we can get
this rebuild rocking and rolling. I think a lot fast
or sticking with you, Mayo, but I don't think that
the Crafts have the you know, the balls to do it,
because I think it'll look bad on them after one
year firing to Rod.

Speaker 2 (01:45:40):
Mayo, Yeah, Mark, thanks for the call. I go back
and forth on that about whether it would look bad.
I think in a lot of ways it could look bad,
and you could certainly spin it that way if you
wanted to. I also think a lot of people will
spin it sunk cost fallacy right, like you, you made a.

Speaker 3 (01:46:00):
Mistake, admitted they made a mistake, they moved on, right,
and then I mean it becomes about who they hire next.

Speaker 2 (01:46:04):
But I feel like it's almost to me and this
is like just to be company man. But like I
honestly think that that would be commendable. Like I think
that that would be good, Like if they really truly
felt and they have all the information and we don't.
So if they truly really felt that this was a
mistake and he wasn't ready for it and it was
a mistake, then admitting the mistake and not wasting another

(01:46:26):
year of Drake May's clock, of the whole organization's time,
you know, all of our times, not wasting another year.
I honestly think that that would be spun as a
positive in a lot of ways. Okay, you made a mistake.
Now the difference is, and I know a lot of
people have said the thing about Rabel. I'm on board
with Rabel. I think we all are to an extent

(01:46:47):
if that's the way that this goes. But the other
side of this is part of this will be league
manadated with a Rooney rule. But you absolutely have to
have a legitimate hiring process. You got to go through
the process. You can't this time around. You can't just
hand the job to Rabel, as good as he is
and as much as I think he would be the
right hire. Now, is it ceremonial? Is it just going

(01:47:07):
through the motions? Maybe? But you look at the team
like the Chargers. The Chargers interviewed like ten or fifteen
guys for their head coaching job. You have to go
through a legitimate interview process. And if you end up
on Mike Vrabel at the end of that process, then great.
But you can't just do another situation where this is
like a handshake deal under the table and we're just

(01:47:28):
handing you the job. It's gonna have to be a
legitimate interview process. All right, DeShawn is in West Virginia.
What's up to Seawan?

Speaker 10 (01:47:37):
As few as actually Virginia?

Speaker 2 (01:47:40):
Oh okay, regular Virginia.

Speaker 10 (01:47:44):
Yes, two things. You know, for instance, like with the draft,
you know what I call it? That called about quarterbacks
since not being available. He basically deliverify my point and
I mentioned I believe I mentioned before on Pature's Unfiltered
about other guys jobs being like on the hot seat
as much as y'all you guys talk about the jobs,
a few jobs here in New England being on the

(01:48:05):
hot seat, you don't think that's the same thing, the
same woe be the same problem in the other place
or whatever. That's why I believe that they will be
anty go ahead and try to call up for the
number one pick, you know, to try to get that quarterback,
knowing the fact that the fativable feature may not hold,
you know, to be true as much as they wanted
to be. Now, when it comes to Mike Bravery the situation,
I believe he get him. He brings stability to the situation.

(01:48:25):
He can coach. And also if people talk blame him
for the destruction of Tennessee or whatever, people seven forget
that it was that GM. I believe he comes here,
he had more power and he'd be able to get
the gods that he want to get. What the gods
you want to keep. That's all I have to say.

Speaker 2 (01:48:42):
Thanks to Sean, thanks for the call. Yeah, look, I
get it. I get why everybody wants changes.

Speaker 3 (01:48:47):
And I would not bring John Robinson with Mike Frabel that.

Speaker 2 (01:48:51):
I sent you, Yeah, I sent you a text about this.
But Ryan Cowden in the New York Giants organization. Now,
who was the number two to John Robinson for a
long time in Tennessee. It sounds like there is a
connection there between Rabel. Now, the last thing I want
to say about this, and you know it's a touchy subject.

(01:49:12):
I'm not gonna lie to you, But the last thing
I want to say to you about about this is
there a world because I'm starting to think there might be.
Is there a world where it's just a rodd and
maybe Covington also, But Rabel comes with Elliott Wolf and
keeps Alex van Pelt and they go that direction because

(01:49:34):
I look at it, and raybol just came from Cleveland. Yeah,
just spent the year with Kevin Stefanski and Cleveland. And
some of the reporting out of Cleveland at the time
was that firing Van Pelt was a little bit of
a head scratcher for everybody there. Yeah, he just came
from Cleveland. His two coordinators in Tennessee were Lafleur and

(01:49:54):
Arthur Smith, who are both West Coast offense Shanahan decightful
type coaches and I wonder, you know, I know Josh
is popular. Tommy Reese is another name that's been floated around,
and I know you hate, but I just wonder, like,
if he's gonna run a West Coast offense anyways, right,
and it's gonna be that sort of flavor anyways.

Speaker 3 (01:50:16):
Well, and then on top of that, you think Stefanski's.

Speaker 2 (01:50:20):
Job is safe. He's a really good coach. I don't know.

Speaker 3 (01:50:24):
Does Stefanski come in as essentially what my blanking on
his name?

Speaker 4 (01:50:30):
Yeah?

Speaker 3 (01:50:31):
Does Defanski come in as along with Ben McAdoo to
replace Ben McAdoo as kind of that offensive consultant.

Speaker 2 (01:50:37):
Yeah, it's possible. It's possible. I just wonder. I'm beginning
to know the situation is. I look, the McDaniels thing
is always there. Yeah, I'm not saying it's not, and
it has its advantages. I don't know that.

Speaker 3 (01:50:52):
I honestly don't know that between McDaniels in between Van Pelt,
I don't know that one's definitively better than the other.
They're very different. They both have pros and cons. But
there is certainly a through line with Elliott Wolf Mike
Rabel to Alex van Pelt. And then if I can
add one more to you there, Wes Welker.

Speaker 2 (01:51:12):
So, Wes Welker is the name that I've thought of,
maybe Rabel being able to bring in the coach receivers.
There's also the current offensive coordinator for the Green Bay
Packers is on the coaching track to be promoted somewhere.
And I don't know pell Well right, but I'm talking

(01:51:35):
about if they're not, Oh, just another name to know.
I don't know Rabel is necessarily part of that. But
if the Patriots decide even to keep Gerrod and move
on from Adam Stenovich, yes, Adam Stenovich basically runs Green
Bay's run game.

Speaker 3 (01:51:51):
He is the run game coordinator before he was the.

Speaker 2 (01:51:54):
So he is Alex van Pelt in Cleveland. He is
not calling plays for the Green Bay Packers, but he
is a little bit more. Now.

Speaker 3 (01:52:03):
If you're gonna do that, though, you got to get
a you got to get somebody with experience in that role.

Speaker 2 (01:52:09):
I don't necessarily disagree with you, but at least according
to Lafloor and I think that you know, part of
it is lafor Is trying to gasp up his guy
to get him interviews and stuff like that. But Lafora
has said that this guy deserves to be a at
least a play caller somewhere, and he also has said
that he basically calls the run game, so they when
they know he's gonna they're gonna run the ball. He's
the one that's calling the play. So I think he

(01:52:31):
has done some a little bit of play calling. And
he apparently is like the next thing, the next Mike McDaniel,
the next Kyle Shanahan, the next Matt Before you know,
he's kind of the next guy. So whether it's Elliott
Wolfe's connection to Green Bay bringing him here, whether it's

(01:52:52):
you know, Mike Rabel and Elliott wolf bringing him whatever,
I don't know. But it's just a name to throw
out there that's in this system, in this tree, in
this world, last thing that I want to do before
we wrap here. I do have some reason to get.
I've been like a lot of what we're I want
that other Jeremiah Smith take. Oh yeah, we're gonna do
it right now. So I don't actually remember what I

(01:53:15):
said I was gonna say. But anyways, you said you
had another take on Jeremiah Smith. Okay, maybe I'll get
maybe I'll remember, so I have some recency biased guys
for you. Okay, not necessarily like pounding the table for
either guy. There's two guys I've watched recently. One of
them you're gonna hate. One of them, I'm not sure about.
They both go to Ohio State. So the guy that

(01:53:37):
I am swimming over a little bit now is a Meccava.

Speaker 3 (01:53:42):
That I know which one gonna hate.

Speaker 2 (01:53:45):
Meccauka from Ohio State, who to me plays a lot
like Jackson Smith and jigl like they played the same
role in the Ohio States offense, that z slot role. Uh,
and he just is more of like a glider smooth mover,
you know, bursty off the line of scrimmage, but not
gonna blow you away with speed over the top. He's

(01:54:05):
gonna be an inside receiver in the NFL. I just
like JSN has developed a Year two for the Seahawks.
I see like Buka as as your chain mover, right,
Like that guy's gonna catch a hundred passes in the NFL,
basically what Jalen Polk was supposed to be. Yeah, and
I really, I really thought his film was was really
really good. Just really smooth, doesn't fight it catches the

(01:54:28):
ball really smooth. You really, he's gonna be great in
the Gauntlet drill like one of those types of guys
that's got great body control, great hands, catcher, transitions really
quickly into yards after the catch, has quickness at the
top of the route to get open and create separation.
He's just not a blazer. He's just not a third
level deept type of receiver. Now. He can stretch the

(01:54:49):
field from the inside though. You put him, you know,
as the slot guy, number two, number three in trips like.
He can run the seam, he can run a deep over.
He caught a touchdown pass yesterday running you know, across
the field on a deep over. That those elements are there.
He's just not going to win on the outside on
the perimeter. But if you're building out, like kind of
an offense and you're building out, you know, a receiver room.

(01:55:11):
You know, if you get the outside guy in a
in free agency or in the veteran market, if it's
t Higgins, if it's DK Metcalf, it's whoever, if you
get that guy on the outside, you know, that's what
the Seahawks have going on right now. Right they have
DK on the outside, they have Jason in the middle
of the field. Jayson's putting up great numbers. I'm starting
to really love the the idea of trading up into

(01:55:33):
the back end of the first round for Buka, who
I think is going to go somewhere in the twenties.

Speaker 3 (01:55:37):
Yeah, I think he's he's gonna move that high up.

Speaker 9 (01:55:39):
Now.

Speaker 3 (01:55:40):
I like, he can't be their only wide receiver edition, correct,
but if you get a DK metcaffer T Higgins, he
would be a really nice complimentary piece.

Speaker 2 (01:55:49):
Yeah. I feel really strongly about the fact that I
don't think anybody in the Patriots receiver room is good
enough that I care about positional overlap. Yeah. Like so, yes,
technically he plays the same role as Jalen Polk. Jalen
Polk didn't prove enough to me that I can.

Speaker 3 (01:56:05):
No, I'm with you one hundred percent. Yeah, I'm with
you hundred percent on that.

Speaker 2 (01:56:08):
Uh, the next one you're really gonna hate. Yeah, I
did watch Josh Simmons. Ye, so there's a lot of
there's a lot of caveats with Josh Simmons, And this
is a take that probably we're going to unpack a
lot more moving forward, but just my quick thirty second
take on him his film in the first five games
of the season, No I'll get to it, Okay, that

(01:56:30):
he played against Ohio State is was absolutely otherworldly, like
left tackle number one in the draft, Like he would
be the top tackle in the in the draft bar none.
If he played like that the entire campbell. Yeah, if
he was playing like that like yesterday in the bowl game,
we wouldn't be even having a discussion. He would be
number one. Crisp, explosive mover, really quick out of his stance.

(01:56:54):
Mirror's guys. Plays a great balance, great leverage, arm length,
checks that box more. I think he's gonna have like
thirty five inch arms. Like he's a long dude. He's
a freak athlete. Now the caveats he played nobody. Yep.
He transferred in for one season at Ohio State from
San Diego State, right, Sandy or Sandieo State, and so
he played nobody there, right. And he also appeared to

(01:57:17):
take a really big leap from where he was at
San Diego State to where he was in the first
five games again at Ohio State. So you're you're really
you're drafting a guy based off of five game against
like Michigan State. I think he played Iowa.

Speaker 3 (01:57:34):
Well, he started the full I think he started the
full season last year at San Diego State. At Ohio State, No,
I think this is his first year at Ohios was
a second. Oh, then I gotta go back and watch,
got to watch more.

Speaker 2 (01:57:44):
So he improved a lot. Is the point from this
year to last year? So was that competition? Was he
gonna keep it up? And he played a half against Oregon.
He did give up a pressure and half against Oregon,
but then he got hurt and then he's been out
for ever since. So it's a risk. It's you're you're
banking on five game sampled.

Speaker 3 (01:58:05):
Okay, what have we said about the tackle position going
back to like last offseason.

Speaker 2 (01:58:11):
Yeah, it's it's no half measures, it's a it's a
half measure, it's a risk, whatever you want to call it, right,
it's it's a risk. Now would you feel better because
the tape.

Speaker 3 (01:58:21):
And yeah he was he's a full time start Ohio States.

Speaker 2 (01:58:23):
Okay, so you need to go I gotta watch that
because I from what I've heard, and I'm going off
of what uh what Brennan Thorne right in his right
up about him? He was nowhere. He was not this
level of player.

Speaker 3 (01:58:34):
I can just give you his numbers I can't tell
you off the top of my head. He allowed fifteen
pressures with eight penalties last year.

Speaker 2 (01:58:40):
Yeah, so he got a lot better, a lot better
and has made a real big leap and then didn't
play the tough part of their schedule. So you're really
banging on. You're getting the player that dominated against like.

Speaker 3 (01:58:51):
Jack Green, Western Michigan, Marshall, Michigan State, and Iowa.

Speaker 2 (01:58:55):
So Iowa usually has some pretty good defensive linemen.

Speaker 3 (01:58:57):
Though they allowed like free points a game this year.

Speaker 2 (01:58:59):
Okay, but they usually have pretty good defensive lines. I
maybe they don't this year, but.

Speaker 3 (01:59:04):
So you're you're drafting him off twenty seven pass block
snaps against Iowa.

Speaker 2 (01:59:09):
I don't disagree. It's it's a it's not it's a
risky thing, but we have to talk about it. We
have to talk about it. Yeah, you're right, we have
to talk about it.

Speaker 3 (01:59:16):
I would say, this is you telling me I talk
about it, wouldn't And it's a little bit different.

Speaker 2 (01:59:22):
Another damn is gonna get rolled? Yeah they are.

Speaker 3 (01:59:25):
Do you want to draft Dominique Easley to beat to
protect Drake May?

Speaker 2 (01:59:28):
It's way different than that. So I domin easily was like.

Speaker 3 (01:59:32):
I need to see how bad the knee injury is.
It hasn't been reported exactly what it was, but there
because they don't have to put out injury boards. Yeah,
there's some chatter that it might have been really bad.

Speaker 2 (01:59:44):
Okay, but if you have between one really catastrophic injury.

Speaker 3 (01:59:49):
And then like if you have a guy with the
completely reconstructed knee, that is a ticking time bomb.

Speaker 2 (01:59:55):
Yeah, no doubt.

Speaker 3 (01:59:56):
I'm just saying I for other teams make sense. Certainly
the Patriots couldnot afford. Let's put this way, is it
worth the wrist that his knee blows up again and
now you burned that pick? When there are other tackles
who have similar ceilings, maybe not the same floor, but
similar ceilings on the table.

Speaker 2 (02:00:14):
Are there similar ceilings? He's really good.

Speaker 3 (02:00:16):
You don't think Banks is a similar ceiling. You don't
think Campbell if a similar I think Banks is definitely
a safer pick. I don't think he has a similar.

Speaker 2 (02:00:24):
I want a safe picksh Simmons has like real like
all pro caliber ceilings.

Speaker 3 (02:00:30):
I want to say, what about Connory? No, I want
a safe pick. I don't want to do this whole
thing again.

Speaker 2 (02:00:36):
Okay, where we don't know who the left tackle is
week to week for three years. Let me ask you this,
it's valid. Let me ask you this. Yeah, if they
go out in free agency and they signed Cam Robinson
or they signed Ronnie Stance.

Speaker 3 (02:00:48):
Then just make Cam Robinson your tackle and draft your
future left tackle next year.

Speaker 2 (02:00:53):
Okay, but you wouldn't take Josh Simmons on Day two
as like this project. You know, you know what I'm saying, Like.

Speaker 3 (02:01:00):
They can't they can't really afford to be using top
one hundred picks on guys that aren't gonna play, all right,
fair enough, it's just hard to not go get Caden
Proctor next year. At that point, it's just hard to deny. No,
he's the tape was incredible. He makes sense for he
makes sense for some teams I make. This is crazy.
This was if this was like five years ago, when
you knew Nate Soldier was towards the end and you

(02:01:21):
had talent elsewhere on the offensive line, sign me the
hell up for where this team's at right now. They
cannot use top one hundred picks on guys with medical
flags and guys that win or guys that won't play
or aren't designed to play in the upcoming season. Can't
do it, can't afford to do it, Okay, I I had.

Speaker 2 (02:01:38):
That's how I feel. I bring it up.

Speaker 3 (02:01:40):
We have to know, we have to talk about it.
We have to give our takes. We gave our takes
on him. Although you're you're suddenly so in on a
guy that played nobody, but you still won't give ash
and genty the Oregon game. I find that interesting. Oregon's
defense a lot better than I was defense.

Speaker 2 (02:01:52):
He's so he was. He was very impressive. I hate
throwing out comps. You know that. I hate throwing up
like crazy, crazy comps. But like one name that just
kind of came to mind is watching him with Tyron Smith,
like he's his film. He was that dominant all right
against nobody, but he was that It.

Speaker 3 (02:02:11):
Would be great if they had the flexibility to take
that risk. I don't think they do, especially if it's
still Elliott Wolf.

Speaker 2 (02:02:17):
I hear you.

Speaker 3 (02:02:17):
I don't think they do. I have one recency bias.
Matthew Golden, So I know you like guys a bond.

Speaker 2 (02:02:23):
Yeah, No, he's he was impressive. I might like Golden.
I thought you, I thought you were gonna say Cam's Kataboo. Well,
obviously should be a patriot, but no, I liked what
I saw. So Matthew Golden, maybe this is where we
meet in the middle. Because last week I asked you,
what does Isaiah Bond do well besides be fast?

Speaker 3 (02:02:41):
And you couldn't give me any I don't have an answer.
You don't have an answer. What is Matthew Golden do well? One,
He's bigger, he's built for the NFL. I think he
has more positional versatility, and I think he's a better
route runner. I don't know that he's a great runner,
but I think he's better.

Speaker 2 (02:02:53):
His body control and uh and obviously his ability to
have when above the room with his lanth, yeah, is impressive.

Speaker 3 (02:02:59):
And he's I think he can play the Z or
the slot. He gives you some flexibility. He's still explosive.
I don't know that his forty is going to be
as good as Isaiah Bond's, but yeah, I would put
him in the explosive we're talking about Marvin Mims earlier. Yeah,
he was a little I have to watch him a
little closer.

Speaker 2 (02:03:13):
I don't know he's quite as fast as Marvin No,
but he's fast.

Speaker 3 (02:03:16):
I wouldn't say he's he's like, remember we said Ted
McMillan isn't slow, but he's not fast. I'll call Matthew
Golden fast. Okay, Right now, he's projected to be a
Day three pick. I don't think that stands. He's going
to be a Day two guy. Maybe more like late
set and early third. But again, shouldn't be the only
pick at wide receiver. Definitely shouldn't be the only pick.
But if you go out and you get a DK

(02:03:37):
Metcalf to here, so let's say they can't trade up
for a booka right, ye Matthew Golden, I think would
be another really good answer. Yeah, you know, Matthew Golden
is if he comes out, he is a true junior.
I could see him waiting, so that caveato.

Speaker 2 (02:03:51):
So he's gonna be in that same category and then
we gotta go. But yeah, he's gonna be in the
same category. To me, Matthew Golden as like the Trey
Harris is. I can't pronounce the kid from Stanford's name. Uh, shoot,
I can't do. I am minor Io manner. Yeah, yeah,
I am manor Uh the Miami kid.

Speaker 3 (02:04:10):
Oh, I really like Ristreppo Yeastreo I might put Rastrepo
in Golden.

Speaker 2 (02:04:14):
Savion Williams, like they're all gonna be in like this
day two bucket, like it's gonna be McConkie poll Ke again,
I might put.

Speaker 3 (02:04:22):
I might put Rostrepo and Golden like a step ahead
of guys like Ao Manor and and Trey Harris.

Speaker 2 (02:04:27):
Rostreppa reminds me a lot of Khalil Share, which is
a compliment by the.

Speaker 3 (02:04:30):
I am a super lazy comp, but I have a
super lazy comp. It's Ricky Piersoll. Okay, remember my whole
thing last year is Ricky Piersoll plays the position angry. Yeah,
Xavier strep I mean it.

Speaker 2 (02:04:43):
Kind of close your care. It's a little I guess
I see a little with him. Anyways, our Streppo is
also bigger. Yeah, he's a good player. He's gonna be
a good player in the league. Uh. Okay, so that
does it for us. Here. We're gonna go watch Georgia
Notre damn here, I'm sure in a second, and uh
and we're gonna have plenty of this draft talk. We
got a ton of emails anymore, Thank you so much

(02:05:04):
for all the emails. We didn't get to quite all
of them, but I tried to bake them all into
the show more months. And look, there's a lot of
you guys that are emailing in that have these elaborate,
like bullet point off season plans Like I would love
to read those emails on the air. It's just not
gonna be great radio, folks, So I apologize, but your
plans are all great. Come with one tape. Yeah yeah,

(02:05:27):
give us an email, give us a shout. We love
hearing from you guys, but I've just got to get
that there. And one last time, Easy to Do a drink,
Easy to Enjoy bud By, the official beer sponsor of
the New England Patriots. We will see you guys next week.
Really quick note about next week, I think we're going
to be moving to Wednesdays next week for the rest
of the off season. So we're going to take the
noon to two PU time slot on Wednesday that Patriots

(02:05:49):
Unfiltered usually occupies and that's gonna be your catch twenty
two time slot. So noon to two moving forward on Wednesdays.
We'll make sure to tease that and plug it plenty
on Twitter, so you guys know where to find us.
We'll see you guys, then bye.

Speaker 4 (02:06:02):
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